What are they fighting for? Anatomy of national betrayal

353
What are they fighting for? Anatomy of national betrayal

Most likely, we really underestimated the enemy, and, in my opinion, it is important to identify two main components here. On the one hand, this is a huge military, financial and informational support for Western countries. Our enemies, it's time to just call them that, are gradually but steadily crossing all the so-called red lines, on whose inviolability, apparently, we counted.

And on the other hand, the moral and psychological state of the Ukrainian army, and the population as a whole, inspired by this very help, was clearly a surprise for us. And it is not known which of these two components poses the main threat to us.



All huts on the edge


Not so long ago I had a chance to talk with an already middle-aged friend who lives in Ivano-Frankivsk. Well educated, brought up in Soviet traditions, she never complained about Bandera and other shortcomings in her environment. But at the same time, she lived, like, probably, most of the inhabitants of the “square” after 1991 - in the very “extreme hut”, which is mentioned by a saying common to us with Ukrainians.

She hoped, as you can see, that everything would resolve itself, and her "right Ukraine would be happy." About how many troubles villains can do with the consent of the "silent majority", it is probably written no less than about love tragedies. At the same time, life, both in the first case and in the second, inexorably winds up new circles. And the scoundrels sometimes manage to fool the majority of the majority controlled by them so much that you are amazed.

A former Soviet employee breathlessly informed me that they were all here - in the house, on the street, in the city - rallied against the aggressor. How else? After all, the "nenka" was offended, it is necessary to protect. In the current conditions, it is pointless to convince her of something (for sure, many of you, dear readers, have experienced this from your own experience). She has long since lost her ancestral homeland, which for a long time did not pay any attention to her and, in fact, herself, with her own hands, crossed out her, like millions of people like her, the Soviet past.

In return, this woman found a new homeland - albeit with a crooked and oblique ideology, but one where her children, grandchildren, and friends live. And when this cozy little world began to crumble, she quite expectedly "rallied". At the same time, under the influence of wartime emotions, apparently, she didn’t think, or rather, didn’t want to think that she also teamed up with those scumbags who are now shelling kindergartens and schools in Donetsk with American missiles. And with those who point-blank kill Russian captured soldiers. And with those who destroy Orthodox monasteries and drive the clergy out into the street.

People who do not remember kinship


Our president has said several times that we are one people with the Ukrainians. In television studios, they try to object to him offendedly: they say, we don’t know them and don’t want to know, they are different, since they turned their bayonets against their own. historical Homeland.

At the same time, all these offended seem to forget how many times in history significant masses of people broke away from us, who were Russian by blood, but fought against Russia. It was during the formation of our state, and at the beginning of the XNUMXth century, and during the Great Patriotic War (were the Vlasovites and other traitors not a single people with us before the war).

So there is no contradiction in the president's words. Yes, we are one people - temporarily divided by the bloody swindle of the West. And the point here, of course, is not some kind of national self-consciousness of freedom-loving Ukrainians, which Western ideologists are trying to inflate. After all, just like with the citizens of Ukraine, we are now divided with hundreds of thousands of Russian “tourists” who left their homeland in a panic, and with those waiting people inside the country who secretly still hope for the victory of the West and a return to a well-fed servile life under its control. .

From the very beginning of the NWO, I believed and believe now that a civil war is going on on our common land. Only the fault passes not on the basis of "red - white", but along a certain line "west - east" artificially created in the minds of people, or, if you like, "civilization - barbarians."

Today it is already obvious that this fault line was carefully cut through by Western intelligence services in the souls of our former compatriots through numerous NGOs and the purchased Ukrainian media machine. And, to our great regret, our enemies succeeded in this hellish work of theirs. In the same way as at one time the ideologists of the Third Reich managed to inject into the minds of many Vlasovites the false ideologeme of betrayal of the motherland for the sake of fighting communism.

Ideoclinic


As you know, the United States shamelessly placed dangerous biological laboratories on the territory of Ukraine. But even more they spawned ideological laboratories. I think the harm from them turned out to be much more tangible than from biological ones. And, in fact, the whole of Ukraine has turned into one big ideological clinic.

Where experienced Western "doctors" with the help of junior medical staff from among the descendants of fascist underachievers for many years successfully brainwashed the experimental population. They cut off the genetic memory piece by piece and burned out the cultural and historical code. At the same time, the patients did not particularly kick, the operations were painless and even with the presentation of sweets for obedience - in the form of visa-free and other lacy panties.

In this regard, I recall another remarkable conversation that took place back in 2015. I then argued with a former Soviet paratrooper, a Russian peasant originally from Tver, who, after Afghanistan, settled in Ternopil and began to sew bags to order, in which he was very successful. After a long and heated exchange of arguments and counterarguments, my interlocutor exclaimed in his hearts: "Leave us alone! Let's figure it out ourselves. Let at least my son live in a normal European country.”

Understood. But even then, many in Ukraine understood that no one was going to take anyone to any Europe. But they believed! They did not want to recover with us, gradually and painfully freeing themselves from the scab of corruption and the dominance of the oligarchs. They did not want to revive their own science and industry bit by bit, to build new factories, roads, schools and hospitals.

What for? After all, you can jump into the European "train" in one fell swoop, which, at the wave of a magical whistle, will bring them to "civilization" - with all the ensuing attributes of a well-fed and righteous life.

They believed and tried not to think that in this paradise they were waiting for Polish strawberries in the beds and used diapers of German old people. What if I'm the lucky one, and I become a pan? The Vlasovites were also promised large allotments with slaves in defeated Russia.

They believed and hid their heads in the sand so as not to notice how their compatriots were dying in the Donbass, how their native Russian language and culture were being trampled on, how they were declared subhuman in their own country.


Light at the end of the slaughter


Many of our former brothers still believe in a bright European future. Despite the blood, tears, darkness and political filth in which they sink deeper and deeper. And in order not to see the light ahead of time, they are continually thrown money to support their pants, flavoring billions of tranches with the same vague promises - that same divine radiance that awaits them for all the suffering at the end of today's dark tunnel.

As you know, the word "slaughter" has many meanings. It is present both in the miner's lexicon and in the terminology of meat processing. The thesis about war to the last Ukrainian today is no longer shy in the West. But I just don’t get it: do people who are massively led to the slaughter really not feel this - just like artiodactyls do not understand where they are being taken in a stuffy car?

I remember well how public attitudes towards joining NATO changed over the years in Ukraine: from almost complete denial to approval by the majority of the population. How else? You have to pay for the European future. And the Ukrainians began to pay. And what we, their close relatives, thought and felt at the same time, did not bother them.

But did those who are now sitting in the trenches on the opposite side really not understand that Russia, a great power, will never allow itself to have a dangerous and evil NATO puppet at its borders? And that we will go to any lengths to ensure our safety? Yes, at one time for many Ukrainians, talk about the danger of NATO expansion at the expense of Ukraine seemed like just far-fetched Kremlin propaganda. Like, we ourselves with a mustache - what we want, then we turn back where we want, and we enter there.

Here they joined. The price for infantilism, conciliation and renunciation of one's roots turned out to be monstrous, but natural. What's next? In fact, the mob reserve of stubborn Natsiks has ended. There were almost no unemployed who wanted to earn their daily bread at the front. They are already seizing men of all ages on the street who did not even think of fighting. And it is already clear to everyone that even several hundred Western tanks and the guns will not change anything in general.

Will Ukrainian citizens continue to dutifully go to the slaughter, persuading themselves that they are fighting for a bright future for their children? Don't think. Sooner rather than later, enlightenment will come, if it has not already come. Bitter, painful, with pain for the dead loved ones and lost illusions. But inevitable, like a way out of any tunnel.
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  1. +30
    4 February 2023 04: 22
    Thanks for the article, Vladimir! On February 24, 2022, it seemed to some part of the Russian society that the SVO would be a cakewalk. OURS near Kyiv, Kherson WAS ours ... give Odessa !!! Hurray ... but no! 30 years without the USSR were not in vain. Onizhebrothers became ENEMIES. Not only at the front, but also in the deep rear. They hate us all with fierce hatred... including their relatives. This is a terrible disaster! Together they fought in the Patriotic War, together they restored ... and ENEMIES! After OUR VICTORY, we have a hard work to do (I have no doubt of this) that to cure a fragment of our united people from a filthy "disease" ...
    1. +26
      4 February 2023 05: 07
      What will be our victory? Along the Dnieper, all the way to Poland? How many more people need to be attracted to complete control of such a vast and hostile territory. And the financial component, the Central Bank is rapidly selling yuan from the reserve, and whoever buys them, the Central Bank for printed rubles. What efforts will need to be made to eliminate all these “challenges”.
      1. The comment was deleted.
    2. 0
      4 February 2023 05: 36
      The main theses of the author:
      1. There is a civil war….
      2. The fault line was cut through for a long time and carefully by Western intelligence services ....
      3. The desire to get to Europe and become a “normal country….
      4. The unity of the elite and the Ukrainian people of Ukraine in the pursuit of their national identity
      5. Inadmissibility of NATO and “anti-Russia” on the Russian border.
      6. Mistakes in and Russia, starting with Gorbachev.

      —-Thanks to the author for the detailed essay dissecting the national betrayal and the path to the NWO.

      —-I believe that the source of the Ukrainian problem (Polish, Baltic, Eastern European, Central Asian, Caucasian, Mongolian…) is the need for self-identification of Ukraine. And it is based on the rejection of everything resembling dependence in imperial Russia (and the USSR) on the metropolis, everything Russian and Soviet.

      —-It is this need for self-identification that is the basis of the foundations of what happened. What basis of self-identification, apart from rejecting the imperial Russian, emphasizing the desire for independence, glorifying nationalism ... necessity ... could there be in Ukraine, Kazakhstan and ..stanakh, the Caucasus? And this need is not sold for cheap gas... And the memory of the common victories, the Second World War... will continue to fade. Zhirinovsky felt it in his gut. And the policy of Russia to convince the former "allied and fraternal" economic indulgence and an attempt at integration was philosophically erroneous. For ideas are eternal, they are not destroyed, they are not sold. They rise from the ashes. Like the idea of ​​Russia's sovereignty.

      —-From here it follows that, due to the objective arithmetic of the possibilities of capitalist Russia and the capitalist West, to a non-people's, non-Patriotic war, the active phase of the NWO will end with the cleansing of four new subjects of Russia. Modern Russia, in a war, when there is a feast in the capitals during the plague, SHOULD not plan for more.

      —-From here follows a further weakening of Russia's influence throughout the post-Soviet space, isolation on it, a focus of weakening in Kazakhstan for the same reason of self-identification.

      — All this is not new. The collapse of the British Empire, with the exception of the Anglo-Saxon colonies, was driven to this day by the need to identify (despite the tactical nuances of elite corruption and "divide and rule" ....,)

      - And the biblical phrase "why do we need a world in which there is no Russia" - to leave in the category of suicidal metaphors, not tablets.

      —-I wanted to come to other conclusions. But all the known arguments for Russia's victory due to the weakness and fatigue of the West, the exhaustion of Ukraine, the transfer of capitalist Russia to a war footing, tactical nuclear weapons, the secret plans of the President, the metaphysical power in Pravda - in the NVO where the capitals feast during the plague - are exhausted and do not work.
      1. +32
        4 February 2023 09: 00
        The source of the Ukrainian problem lies in the complete defeat of Russia in the information space, the defeat in work, or rather in the complete absence of this work with the post-Soviet republics over the past thirty years. In the absence of a coherent ideology in the country.
        1. +30
          4 February 2023 09: 53
          That's it! The West was preparing an "ideological break", while the Russian leadership was busy pumping gas. Neither Kuchma's statement "Ukraine is not Russia" was said about anything, they did not hear a call from Yushchenko, Yanukovych was persuaded not to use force. And now, a war in which thousands of our secret soldiers died. But it turns out that "Lenin's bombs" are to blame for this, as if Lenin watched people being burned in the Odessa House of Trade Unions.
        2. +35
          4 February 2023 10: 01
          Not only. For the Russian Federation - for the last 30 years, it itself has completely fallen under the West, isn't it? And on this occasion, all those around us had a reasonable question - why should they obey us, and not directly to the West? Why do they need an extra intermediary? To live independently, with their own mind - they, in principle, do not know how and do not want to. Not that mentality.

          So the war is being waged for the right to change the owner. On the one who, as they think, is more generous and strong. And in general - it’s more correct. Here, pay attention to all their Wishlist - like right now they will accept us in Europe, and she will immediately make us gouge, and for free .. Well, well. From us - this is exactly what they can not expect. We can’t do something bad for ourselves, what else is there for others ..

          In addition, in the early 90s, it seemed to many that Russia was everything. There isn't and there won't be any more. Yes, we ourselves often thought so .. And what is the way to show loyalty to the new owner? Yes, wipe your feet on the former, what else !! And when it turned out that they got excited with the death of Russia, it was already too late, too much crap spilled out. And now they have no other choice but to go to the end - because they are terribly afraid that when we return - they will still have to answer for a lot of what they have done ...
          1. Qas
            +2
            4 February 2023 12: 34
            How many correct words and such an end: whom were they going to bring to account? Now, no one is responsible for anything. The chairs only change under them, but the faces are still the same. And in five to ten years these sins will be forgotten, as new ones will appear. And everything will go in a new circle. And by what right will you attract?
        3. +8
          4 February 2023 10: 42
          If we are to look for a source, then we must also ask the following question: "What is the reason for Russia's complete defeat in the information space?"
          1. +2
            4 February 2023 23: 46
            Quote: Ivan_Petrov
            What is the reason for "the complete defeat of Russia in the information space?"
            I would also ask the question: why Russia did not have and does not have a vision of the policy of relations with “former relatives” - it didn’t work like a boy
        4. +17
          4 February 2023 10: 49
          Quote from: dmi.pris1
          The source of the Ukrainian problem lies in the complete defeat of Russia in the information space

          Could it be otherwise?
          You know, the motivation of a soldier who fights in a foreign country will never compare with the motivation of a warrior who defends his country, his homes and his families.
          And that's not even the source of the problem. This is her root. After all, we won in 1945, among other things, because we defended its land from an external aggressor.
          1. +1
            4 February 2023 22: 40
            Quote from: skeptick2
            You know, the motivation of a soldier who fights in a foreign country will never compare with the motivation of a warrior who defends his country, his homes and his families.

            And who told you that this is not our land? Why did you decide so? Because the valtsmans of Kalamoyskoye, Zelensky, capitalists have hammered into your head and the rest of the population of Svydoukraina? What is the difference between the hypothetical Ivanov in today's Ukraine and Russia? Brainwashed in different ways? Why didn't Sevastopol become Svido-Ukraine? There are many questions and not all of them are easy to answer... hi
            1. The comment was deleted.
            2. +1
              6 February 2023 13: 07
              You explain this to the soldier on the front. They may be wrong, but they are ideologized, and in the Russian Federation there is no other ideology except for the thirst for profit. Hence the attempts to solve everything with loot. We're still having fun with them.
        5. Eug
          +11
          4 February 2023 11: 21
          How is it - no ideology? Slightly changing the song of Shura
          "Chop the loot on the whole Earth
          Cut the loot for your own good ... "
          The words of the unaltered song seem to be correct, but "good" is such an abstract concept that good for someone often becomes a source of evil for someone...
      2. +2
        4 February 2023 18: 54
        the need for self-identification of Ukraine.

        Let me draw your attention to the fact that the state in the volume of the Ukrainian SSR, 25 regions has never existed, but now when they write Ukraine, it means the Ukrainian SSR. It was created by Lenin and was also slaughtered by Khrushchev. Ukrainianism as an ideology took shape in a small area of ​​the Western Criminal Code and then expanded into a huge Ukrainian SSR. In all countries, they tried to reduce the number of independent political centers, for example, in England there were 7 kingdoms, then they were united into one country, it is nonsense to create a huge state by cutting off lands from itself, now this mistake has to be disentangled.
        The land from Kharkov to Odessa (Novorossiya) was generally a crime to slaughter the Criminal Code.



        Lenin should have used the administrative principle, annexed the territories in the form of regions and there would have been no problems. By the way, in the United States, the natives also tried to create republics, but the government did not allow any national republics.

        the need for self-identification

        It's better to be a president with your own plane than a mayor.
        Self-identification as such is needed only by the local elite, since it gives power and it is unnecessary to report to anyone, the ordinary inhabitants do not need special self-identification.

        The collapse of the British Empire, with the exception of the Anglo-Saxon colonies, was driven to this day by the need to identify

        Not right, the British robbed the colonies, and the very status of overseas lands was colonial, while the Criminal Code was never in the status of a colony. In fact, the BI went bankrupt because they began to receive less money than they spent on suppressing the riots.
        And the policy of Russia to convince the former "allied and fraternal" economic indulgence and an attempt at integration was philosophically erroneous.

        I agree.

        For ideas are eternal, they are not destroyed, they are not sold. They rise from the ashes. Like the idea of ​​Russia's sovereignty

        Stupidity. Ideas are created by political technologists and geopolitics, in order to prevent strife, it is necessary that there be as few political centers in the region as possible. EBN had to take the Crimea and Novorossia to their homeland in 91. But EBN didn't give a damn about geopolitics, they reduced the elite of the Russian Federation to small traders.
        1. +1
          4 February 2023 18: 59
          I will add that the terms Malorosia Novorossiya are technical terms coined by the Greeks and define the area of ​​\uXNUMXb\uXNUMXbsettlement of the ethons. Novorossiya is the area of ​​settlement of the ethnos, and Great Russia is the territory of the primary range of the ethnos.
        2. +1
          4 February 2023 19: 11
          That's right, since 1925 we have been educating Ukrainians, we are worried about the fact that the Ukrainian language is poorly developed there. First, we create problems for ourselves, which we solve with great bloodshed later. In 2012, after the conclusion of the Venice Commission on the status of the Russian language in Ukraine, many deputies, and not only supported the conclusion of the commission, saying that Ukraine should develop its own language. Stepping on a rake is our national pastime.
    3. +2
      4 February 2023 07: 11
      The correct article.
      But, with all this, almost the right accent.
      They say they zombified, they say they ceased to be brothers ....
      Centuries-old history shows that they never were brothers, nationalism was quietly sleeping among 70-80 percent of the population, they firmly knew that they were "better". If this was a secret for the West, no one would start their zombie.
      They fought together during WWII. Yes, you look at the national composition of the Soviet troops. 75-85 percent are Russians, 8-15 percent are Ukrainians, and even then, after conscription in the liberated territories.
      In Soviet times, all this was hushed up, like, for example, who burned Khatyn, they say, why remember, violate the friendship of peoples?
      But, nevertheless, there are still many of us,
      although the majority, probably, have already left the dill, they are simply afraid to do something now, it is dangerous, and non-brothers climb out of every iron.
      Also, the medicine is now for the Banderlogs and their sympathizers, as well as just those who like to live on handouts for trading in Russophobia, one defeat with heavy losses at the front. It enlightens. Although they were not and will not become brothers, they will not pose a danger.
      It will come down how harmful it is to health and everything to sign up for the advanced detachment of Russophobes of the West
      1. +17
        4 February 2023 10: 56
        knew for sure that they were "better"

        Why did they know it? Because they lived better than in native Rus'. And - without making any effort for this. Nasty freebie. And naturally the thought arose - maybe I live better than Vanya, not because he feeds me, but because I'm kind of better? Is there a reason why he does this? It means that he feels a higher being in me, not otherwise .. For he is drunk, lazy and mediocrity, and I am all so smart and creative ..

        From here - everything climbs .. From our kindness. It would seem that in relation to a Pole, a Westerner does not feel like a higher being, does he? On the contrary - a serf. And in relation to us - yes easily! Although - where is Russia and where is Poland. Even comparing our achievements is ridiculous. Elephant and pug. And here is..

        And so it is with everyone. Balts, banderlogs, Georgians, etc., etc. Apparently, we are doing something wrong. If the citizens of a great country with the greatest accomplishments in all areas - any worthless slut allows itself to be considered like subhuman ..
        1. +2
          4 February 2023 12: 42
          And so it is with everyone. Balts, banderlogs, Georgians, etc., etc. Apparently, we are doing something wrong. If the citizens of a great country with the greatest accomplishments in all areas - any worthless slut allows itself to be considered like subhuman ..
          He once wrote that in order for the Russian Federation to be accepted into the "European family of peoples", one must behave like they do: engage in genocide, destroy the historical memory of other peoples, charge them with all the miscalculations and mistakes, rob, hypocrisy, etc. This is the only way to become a European. Here on 404 and apply all these methods. Only after that will small peoples begin to "respect" us and stop boasting of their superiority.
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        2. +2
          4 February 2023 12: 57
          Until we prescribe a clear life strategy for ourselves, the answer to the question: why do we live as a country? (This is an ideology) they will put us in nothing, we will not respect ourselves. Communist and capitalist ideals do not suit us in my opinion. And if they fit, then partly. We are self-sufficient in terms of territory and resources, energy and much more, but we are not self-sufficient in terms of the internal content of our people. And nature does not tolerate emptiness.
        3. +3
          4 February 2023 19: 06
          Do not speak in this case we we do it wrong. Nobody asked us then what to do in the Baltic States, Georgia and Ukraine. They did not ask when the USSR was divided in the most unfavorable way for Russia.
      2. +7
        4 February 2023 15: 50
        Quote: Alekseev
        Yes, you look at the national composition of the Soviet troops. 75-85 percent are Russians, 8-15 percent are Ukrainians, and even then, after conscription in the liberated territories.

        Let's not assert Alexei without evidence, huh?
        Heroes of the Soviet Union in WWII: Russians - 7998 people, Ukrainians - 2021 people, Belarusians - 299 people and other peoples - 984 people.
        those. for 4 Russians 1 Ukrainian or every 5th. this is what you think:
        Quote: Alekseev
        75-85% Russians, 8-15% Ukrainians

        do you think that Ukrainians, making up 10 percent of the army or every tenth, received twice as many Russian GSS?
        or see here: link with a sign https://pyhalov.livejournal.com/194231.html
        Russians 60%, Ukrainians 20%, the rest all together 20% .. and here there is already 3 Ukrainian for 1 Russians, and together 80% of the army ..
        so why are you giving false information, for a red word? or consciously?
      3. +5
        4 February 2023 18: 02
        Quote: Alekseev
        They fought together during WWII. Yes, you look at the national composition of the Soviet troops. 75-85 percent are Russians, 8-15 percent are Ukrainians, and even then, after conscription in the liberated territories.

        1. 0
          5 February 2023 01: 17
          The point here is rather that the majority of those called up from the territories of the Ukrainian SSR are Russians and not Ukrainians. Actually, even today, in the NWO, the Russians are fighting mainly with the Russians, but now they are already "citizens of Ukraine", an illegal formation that appeared as a result of the betrayal of the degenerates, who ignored the results of the Referendum on the preservation of the USSR.
    4. +8
      4 February 2023 17: 47
      Quote: Michael55
      Thanks for the article, Vladimir!

      The essence of the article is: "We are so good, kind, white and fluffy", And they (the inhabitants of Ukraine) are "so-and-so .. goats .. and traitors, etc." "What are they for? goats ) are fighting "?
      --------
      Typical propaganda article. Just like propaganda should be in a time of war.
    5. -6
      4 February 2023 21: 08
      Some call them "pro-Westerners", some "jackal flock" who roam from topic to topic. Personally, I do not want to hang labels, and therefore I simply give a set of quotes:

      Quote: Michael55
      Thanks for the article, Vladimir! On February 24, 2022, it seemed to some part of Russian society that the SVO would be a cakewalk. OURS near Kyiv, Kherson WAS ours ... give Odessa !!! Hurray ... but no!


      Quote: ASAD
      What will be our victory? Along the Dnieper, all the way to Poland? How many more people need to be attracted to completely control such a vast and hostile territory.

      Quote: Mikhail Drabkin
      —-I wanted to come to other conclusions. But all the known arguments for Russia's victory due to the weakness and fatigue of the West, the exhaustion of Ukraine, the transfer of capitalist Russia to a war footing, tactical nuclear weapons, the secret plans of the President, the metaphysical power in Pravda - in the NVO where the capitals feast during the plague - are exhausted and do not work.


      Quote from: skeptick2
      You know, the motivation of a soldier who fights in a foreign country will never compare with the motivation of a warrior who defends his country, his homes and his families.



      Quote: tatra
      Yes netushki. The Soviet Russian and Ukrainian peoples coexisted calmly and amicably, there were many interethnic marriages, but the anti-Soviet Russian and Ukrainian peoples hate both the Soviet people and each other. And now the Russian anti-Soviet people have increased the level of hatred of the Ukrainian people not only for themselves, but for Russia and the Russian people in general, and for many decades



      Quote: ammunition
      The essence of the article is: "We are so good, kind, white and fluffy", And they (the inhabitants of Ukraine) are "so-and-so .. goats .. and traitors, etc." " What are they ( goats ) fighting for " ?
      --------
      Typical propaganda article. Just like propaganda should be in a time of war.

      Quote from: 1razvgod
      None of this will come of it, it didn’t work out over the decades when there was no war, do you really think it will work out after the abundantly shed blood?!? The Americans acted with attractive ideas, but what can a deeply capitalist-oligarchic Russia offer?


      To be continued!
    6. -4
      5 February 2023 05: 09
      they were never brothers, it’s vyrus and no more, they fought against us in Ossetia, they fought in Chechnya, what kind of brothers are they? and how many of them were driven through the forests in the 50s? in the domestic one, how many policemen from these "onegerats" were ...
    7. -1
      5 February 2023 13: 02
      Quote: Michael55
      On February 24, 2022, it seemed to some part of the Russian society that the SVO would be a cakewalk.
      NATO experts tried to instill this idea in the masses, not only because of the different approaches to the military operations of NATO and the NWO, but also in order to a) cause despondency and fear with unfulfilled hopes for an easy ride in our society and b) show their taxpayers that they are not donate a penny in vain (cents, pence, etc.)
  2. +9
    4 February 2023 04: 36
    insight? Doubtful! We have been recorded as enemies for centuries! (you might think that it was not like that in the USSR, everything was the same, only it was not talked about!), so that politics and relationships should be built on the basis of reality!
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      1. -8
        4 February 2023 06: 37
        Quote: tatra
        The Soviet Russian and Ukrainian peoples coexisted calmly and amicably

        And before that, there was no Ukrainian people at all.
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          1. The comment was deleted.
          2. +3
            5 February 2023 14: 26
            Quote: tatra
            So there was no Russian people, but there were Great Russians
            It's good that A.V. Suvorov did not hear such nonsense
            God bless, we are Russians! What a delight!
            They write that he said these words after the capture of the almost impregnable Ishmael. How long before Ishmael?
  3. +45
    4 February 2023 04: 37
    Many at the household level knew how everything was running.
    Only our intelligence and the Foreign Ministry did not know.
    Although even in the 14th the scales were not even in balance - Bandera was a minority, although noisy and aggressive.
    So there are creators of this "miracle", and not only in the West.
    1. +41
      4 February 2023 05: 11
      Our leadership was embarrassed to kill a couple of thousand horses on the Maidan. And force Yanukovych to fulfill his duties as president. And now we sip with a full spoon.
      1. +6
        4 February 2023 09: 44
        Quote: ASAD
        ashamed to nail a couple of thousand horses on the Maidan

        No one is "embarrassed" about anything in politics at this level. There were, and apparently will be, multi-move with "partners", where without them, about which we will not know the details even in a hundred years ...
    2. +17
      4 February 2023 10: 01
      The last time I had to visit Ukraine was in 2012, back under Yanukovych. In the Kyiv ministries - despite the fact that
      the top leadership was from the Donbass and with Russian surnames - crowds of American "advisers" snooped around. In Kakhovka, the representative of the district administration turned out to be from Western Ukraine and refused to speak Russian. Then they explained to us that throughout Eastern Ukraine there is a campaign to appoint "Svidomo" personnel. Did the intelligence of the Russian Federation not know this? And you didn't know what it was for? They were simply told to smoke on the sidelines. Alas, we have to admit that the actions of the Russian Federation were directed by the same forces that planted Bandera in Ukraine.
      1. +10
        4 February 2023 15: 34
        And the last time I was in Ukraine was back in 1988. Everything was fine, the Muscovites in Kyiv and Dnepropetrovsk were treated well, there was no hatred even close. And now they are looking for the guilty, they say, where did the hatred come from. And, as always, the blame is shifted to the opposite side, they do not consider themselves guilty. But in vain - we ourselves are to blame, or rather our politicians are to blame, and the highest ones are the Foreign Ministry and the Kremlin.
        1. +3
          4 February 2023 19: 57
          Been many times 2004-2008, Volnogorsk near Dnepropetrovsk. Everyone spoke Russian and Surzhik. In 2006, an order came - all documents are upstairs - only in Ukrainian. Confusion at the plant, how do you know if it's technical Ukrainian? They wrote in Russian, then the secretaries translated.
  4. +4
    4 February 2023 04: 47
    "War is the continuation of politics by other means"
    Carl von Clausewitz
  5. -1
    4 February 2023 05: 01
    Quote: Michael55
    Thanks for the article, Vladimir! On February 24, 2022, it seemed to some part of the Russian society that the SVO would be a cakewalk. OURS near Kyiv, Kherson WAS ours ... give Odessa !!! Hurray ... but no! 30 years without the USSR were not in vain. Onizhebrothers became ENEMIES. Not only at the front, but also in the deep rear. They hate us all with fierce hatred... including their relatives. This is a terrible disaster! Together they fought in the Patriotic War, together they restored ... and ENEMIES! After OUR VICTORY, we have a hard work to do (I have no doubt of this) that to cure a fragment of our united people from a filthy "disease" ...

    Americans still allow themselves to keep American Indians on reservations, and sometimes act in films and FSE!
  6. +7
    4 February 2023 05: 02
    In my opinion, even cows understand where they are "taken in a stuffy wagon." And Ukraine is a clinic.
    1. +7
      4 February 2023 09: 19
      To alpine meadows.... wink and what ... and suddenly smile
      1. +6
        4 February 2023 12: 12
        To alpine meadows
        Now the problem is that quite a few Ukrainians after the 24th have fallen to the Swiss and Flemish meadows completely legally. From their point of view, half the work is done - they were recognized as real Europeans. now they need (from their point of view, again) only hold out a little, and Russia will collapse under the onslaught of the "civilized world" and they will drink kava in Paris at the expense of reparations. Something like this.
        1. -1
          5 February 2023 15: 01
          Quote: Bolt Cutter
          Now the problem is that quite a few Ukrainians after the 24th got to the Swiss and Flemish meadows completely legally. From their point of view, half the work is done - they were recognized as real Europeans. now they need (from their point of view, again) just hold out a little
          Those who got to the Flemish meadows do not have a noticeable effect on the course of the NMD, only caring about how to claw their feet, teeth and horns on these meadows and not get under escort in the steppes on the right bank of the Dnieper to those who simply fell.
  7. +26
    4 February 2023 05: 06
    But for all my patriotic position, I did not understand what this material was about, what main idea the author wanted to convey to the public.
    It seems that he simply "legalized" the previously forbidden topic that the population of Ukraine, for the most part, with the beginning of the NWO, took a sharply anti-Russian position and we are not expected to meet with flowers, dances and tambourines in the liberated territories.
    But we already know this, because the people are really one, many have relatives in Ukraine, and the exchange of "opinions" does take place.
    But there is nothing more interesting in the material.
    Not "who is to blame" - about such in this case, nothing, or good.
    But here's what to do. It seems that the author does not have any ready-made recipes or suggestions.
    It's a pity.
    1. -7
      4 February 2023 05: 32
      Quote: U-58
      But for all my patriotic position, I didn’t understand what this material was about .....
      But here's what to do. It seems that the author does not have any ready-made recipes or suggestions.
      It's a pity.

      The author just does what he can. And everyone, including Ukrainians, needs to develop.

      The Russian peasant "for all his patriotic position" realized that war in the 21st century is just business. And he will point out a number of examples confirming this.
      And hohol, for all its worldly cunning, is still worn with the archaic slogan "holy war for Freedom from Muscovites."

      And this is in a world where everything is bought and sold, and they themselves rented out their country to the Americans. And earn themselves a reputation as the world's nerds. The development of those who lingered with this is a difficult matter.
      1. +8
        4 February 2023 05: 42
        There are always those who hope to sit out, to be the smartest, to live to European happiness. And there are a lot of such people in Russia, that's where our "unity" is...
        1. +9
          4 February 2023 09: 06
          European happiness. Why Holland does not have many natural resources, but it is richer than Russia, the minimum wage starts at 11 euros per hour, agriculture is many times more efficient than ours. Why are their products cheaper? Maybe take Switzerland in comparison. Yes, our opportunity to work in Europe, half the country would have fled. And so many young people have already left.
          1. -4
            4 February 2023 10: 00
            Quote from Deon59
            Why Holland does not have many natural resources, but it is richer than Russia, the minimum wage starts at 11 euros per hour, agriculture is many times more efficient than ours

            Have you heard anything about the primitive accumulation of capital? Holland plundered other continents for centuries, and began to do this long before the Anglo-Saxons. Further, Holland did not experience many of the upheavals that were prepared for other countries and peoples, its cities were not rolled up with carpet bombing. Yes, and at the expense of agriculture - at the end of the seventies, Dutch specialists also came to learn from Soviet, livestock complexes, there was such a thing ...
            1. 0
              4 February 2023 10: 32
              Holland was robbed by all and sundry, but compared to Russia, it captured a lot. Yes, and in the Second World War it did not frailly rake. Well, they came to learn from experience. And where did they drink our experience. In all our troubles, we blame someone but ourselves. Let's take out the mote in someone else's eye, but we don't notice the beam in our own.
            2. +3
              4 February 2023 11: 07
              her cities weren't carpet bombed.
              Have you read about the bombing of Rotterdam?
              1. +3
                4 February 2023 20: 44
                Quote: Andrey Moskvin
                They didn’t read about the bombing of Rotterdam

                The bombing of Rotterdam, of course, was "carpet", in the 40th year, as many as 97 tons of bombs were dropped by fifty German bombers. Just over a thousand people died, most from the fires.
                The losses of the Dutch army in battles with the Germans in 1940 amounted to 2,2 thousand people. Another 1,7 thousand resistance fighters died during the German occupation.

                2,5 times more Dutch died fighting for the Germans...
                The losses of the civilian population of Holland amounted to 7,5 thousand dead or missing in forced labor in Germany (in total, 27 thousand Dutch were taken out for forced labor), 2,8 thousand executed by the German occupation authorities, 2,5 thousand Dutch, who died in concentration camps in Holland...

                Of course, this cannot be compared with what the Union and its people endured during the four years of the war.
            3. +4
              4 February 2023 12: 16
              Dutch specialists also came to learn from the experience of Soviet, livestock complexes
              They learned to make moonshine from beet molasses ("malyasovka" - a chemical weapon laughing )? Or learned to drink it without fainting wassat ?
              Agriculture there has been elevated to the rank of an exact science, and this was done a very long time ago.
              1. +4
                4 February 2023 20: 59
                Quote: Bolt Cutter
                Learned how to make moonshine from beet molasses

                Of course, everyone in the USSR "only booze", but for some reason there were 44 million cows, and in the developed capitalist it became six times less ...
            4. +1
              4 February 2023 19: 34
              And try to save at least something with us. The claim is not for you. The press wrote that the owner was unable to pay taxes.

              This is the former Stalingrad State District Power Plant. It was a building in a remote industrial zone. Why couldn't it be saved for later use?
              With all this, I consider it completely unnecessary to compete with Ukrainians in terms of living standards and culture.
              The task is to discourage the hunt and the opportunity to fight with the Russians, jump and demand "Muscovite for Gilyak."
          2. +6
            4 February 2023 13: 39

            "Why Holland does not have many natural resources, but it is richer than Russia, the minimum wage starts at 11 euros per hour, agriculture is many times more efficient than ours."


            Because the Abramovichs from Holland don't buy Chelsea.
            1. +8
              4 February 2023 15: 39
              Why Holland does not have many natural resources, but it is richer than Russia, the minimum wage starts at 11 euros per hour, agriculture is many times more efficient than ours.

              Because there are no our officials.
              1. -2
                4 February 2023 19: 36
                Not certainly in that way. It is their officials who have influence over ours.
            2. +4
              4 February 2023 20: 06
              Quote: Boris Sergeev
              Because the Abramovichs from Holland don't buy Chelsea.

              Chelsea bought from Abramovich (more precisely from the British authorities) Todd Bowley, an American. Has this hit Maryland agriculture in any way?
          3. -4
            4 February 2023 21: 08
            Why Holland does not have many natural resources, but it is richer than Russia

            Because fewer people live in Holland. And the common pie (Denyuzhka for export) is divided into a smaller number of people.
            the minimum wage starts at 11 euros per hour,

            1) And the apartment costs 600 thousand euros.
            2)Here is a private house € 850,000
            https://www.funda.nl/en/koop/middelie/huis-42054005-middelie-72/
            3) Or here
            100 m²
            € 725,000
            https://www.funda.nl/en/koop/amsterdam/appartement-42003307-rooseveltlaan-224-i/
            agriculture is many times more efficient than ours

            Holland puts all the money into this.
            Logical.
            +The structure of the economy is different there.
            For example, they do not need to spend money on:
            1) launching rockets into space.
            2) construction of atom icebreakers
            3) logistics - such as in the Russian Federation. Bring goods from Moscow to Vladivostok.
            How many km? +-7000 like.
            4) Holland does not need to warm up buildings (schools, hospitals ..) for the same volumes from the cold as in the Russian Federation.
            5) The same with snow.
            6) The Netherlands does not need to spend money on the construction (and maintenance of the design bureau) of nuclear power plants.
            7) And much more ... Holland does not need to be done.
            Others will do it for Holland.

            Maybe take Switzerland in comparison.

            When comparing, don't forget to take into account
            1) the cost of housing.
            2) The cost of kindergarten, school, university studies,
            3) taxes on cars ..... and much more.
          4. +1
            4 February 2023 21: 32
            Quote from Deon59
            agriculture is many times more efficient than ours

            Tired of these nonsense about efficiency, have you seen a living cow near at least once in your life ?!
            1. +4
              4 February 2023 22: 35
              yes, at least a thousand minuses, for the sake of interest, compare the winter period for which it is necessary to prepare hay, compare the temperature conditions and the costs of these
              find out how long the battery life is for warehouses in our country and in Europe, and then you will minus
      2. -1
        4 February 2023 05: 43
        There are always those who hope to sit out, to be the smartest, to live to European happiness. And there are a lot of such people in Russia, that's where our "unity" is...
    2. +8
      4 February 2023 09: 46
      Not "who is to blame" - about such in this case, nothing, or good.

      This is where I don't quite understand. It means that someone is to blame for everything that happened there once? What about those who don't belong now?
    3. +1
      4 February 2023 09: 49
      Quote: U-58
      But here's what to do. It seems that the author does not have any ready-made recipes or suggestions.

      And who has them?
      A child needs to be brought up until 10-12 years old, then it’s too late. And to educate in the fourth decade is the height of infantilism. What has been promoted under various sauces for more than thirty years cannot be removed in a year either with a pen, or with an ax, or with a rocket ...
    4. 0
      4 February 2023 11: 33
      You must deal with these problems yourself. Because you need it. And not to a kind gentleman who, for some reason, harnessed himself to solve your problems for you.
      I see that you have here like-minded people who are as damn smart as you, who turned out to be completely .... And who did not understand why.
  8. -7
    4 February 2023 05: 21
    There is such a thing as mental aggression... in Ukraine, the Americans have achieved success in this area... at the mental level, tearing off part of the Ukrainians from Russia... this topic is very poorly studied in the Kremlin.
    I believe that in order to return Ukraine to the bosom of Russia, it is necessary to work with the Ukrainian population in this particular area ... Ukrainians themselves must finally suppress the Bandera infection in their midst and we must help them in this trouble with all our might.
    It's decades of work...it took the Americans 30 years to get there...we'll need that much.
    1. +22
      4 February 2023 07: 00
      None of this will come of it, it didn’t work out over the decades when there was no war, do you really think it will work out after the abundantly spilled blood?!? The Americans acted with attractive ideas, but what can a deeply capitalist-oligarchic Russia offer? She can’t offer anything to the oligarchs of Ukraine, because the West will give more and more, and our oligarchs are trying to keep all the money and their families in the West, for those and these Motherland there. What ideas can Russia offer to the common people? The idea of ​​equality, brotherhood, social justice, respect for honest work??? So this doesn’t exist in Russia either, it all went away with the collapse of the USSR, no one will believe in it, therefore lace panties won the ideas spinning in the heads of the guarantor and the company, they don’t have any idea ...
  9. +10
    4 February 2023 05: 33
    Quote: Lech from Android.
    This work for decades

    You are absolutely right! In my first message, I was "embarrassed" to remind that not only 30 years were spent on all "this". Even in the 60s, when I visited my relatives THERE, I felt as a child an undisguised dissatisfaction with the "Muscovites". Then it was not painfully open and obviously not given importance. And now all this CRAP has come out, unfortunately. And surgical treatments are not always bad.
    1. -1
      4 February 2023 15: 21
      Unfortunately, only they remained, such a tumor is burned out, cut out: "With Fire and Sword."
  10. +5
    4 February 2023 05: 44
    I had a chance to communicate with Ukrainians in XNUMX-XNUMX. For Westerners, even then we were enemies, but now ... Let's be realistic: they, Westerners, will NEVER be our own. We can still hardly reformat the consciousness of the right bank, Odessa, Nikolaev, Izmail, but this will take decades.
    1. +19
      4 February 2023 06: 15
      And what can the Russian enemies of the USSR reformat the consciousness of Ukrainians to, if they themselves do not have a normal ideology, propaganda, no respect for the history of our country, for Russian culture? If the Russian enemies of the USSR, like the Ukrainian ones, rejected all the great people of the Soviet and pre-revolutionary periods.
  11. +2
    4 February 2023 06: 08
    But did those who are now sitting in the trenches on the opposite side not understand

    Did not understand. "Foreigners will help us" is eternal. And foreign countries, by definition, cannot lose - this is the main postulate. That is why even now they are confident that the war is going as it should and they are considering how many reparations should be taken. Everything was already
  12. The comment was deleted.
    1. +6
      4 February 2023 09: 22
      It has not been conducted and has not been conducted since the mid-50s. During this time, three generations of people hostile to us have grown up. Since 91, two, at best, one generation hostile to us, but with a wider geography, and since 2014 we have lost a lot of people in Kharkov, Sumy, Odessa and so on . In 2021, we entered Kherson, and then left. No matter for what reason, but left; how should that grandmother, who came out to meet us with the Flag of Victory, perceive this? Answer me!!!
    2. -1
      4 February 2023 19: 33
      They have known for a long time how to turn an enemy into an ally, they used to take the children of the enemy for upbringing, the example of Shamil, and with us the children of Bandera studied in Moscow, they held responsible positions there, and they appointed like-minded people, now they are withdrawing money abroad, according to what Abramovich does, he no better than Kolomoisky, but unlike Kolomoisky, he received his assets from Russia, now these assets go to support the Armed Forces of Ukraine.
  13. The comment was deleted.
  14. Elk
    +19
    4 February 2023 06: 32
    “They didn’t want to recover with us, gradually and painfully freeing themselves from the scab of corruption and the dominance of the oligarchs. They did not want to revive their own science and industry bit by bit, to build new factories, roads, schools and hospitals.
    This is where it was funny.
  15. +5
    4 February 2023 06: 35
    The oldest psychological trigger is triggered - uniting into "one's own" tribe against someone else's.
  16. +4
    4 February 2023 06: 36
    Someone from childhood was brought up in the spirit of Ukrainian nationalism and worship of the ideas of Bandera, someone wanted his son to "live in a normal European country", someone modestly wanted only "lace panties", and someone felt where the wind blows decided to make a career for himself and did. At the same time, all of the above did not give a damn what methods and methods would be used in this case. Therefore, they silently watched how their army leveled the Donbass with the ground, and many were happy about this. As a result, we came to a real war actively supported by the West. Losing their loved ones, they became embittered, considering only Russia to be the culprit of everything and not thinking about what they themselves had done before. You can’t denazify these people until you bring up several generations with a new ideology that completely rejects Nazism, worship of Bandera and his accomplices and the desire to live well, but at someone else’s expense.
  17. +11
    4 February 2023 06: 49
    “Who is to blame that you are tired, That you didn’t find what you were waiting for, Lost everything that you were looking for, Rising into the sky and falling. And whose fault is it that day after day Life leaves in a strange way And your house became lonely, And empty behind your window. And the light fades, and the sounds are silent, Hands are looking for new torment And if your pain subsides, So there will be a new trouble. Who is to blame, tell me brother: One is married, the other is rich, One is ridiculous, the other is in love, One, your other enemy. And whose fault is it that here and there they wait for each other and live by that, But the day is long and the night is empty, Warm places are full. Who is to blame, and what is the secret, That there is no grief and no happiness There are no victories without defeats, And equal to the score of good luck and troubles "(c).
    1. +2
      4 February 2023 10: 29
      Romanov... Group "Sunday" and... my God - 75 years! As they say, "increased flair of the artist."
      Thank you, Alexey Anatolyevich, for reminding me! good hi )))
      1. +2
        4 February 2023 14: 23
        So Nikolsky and the year 1979, otherwise everything is correct in your comment .. hi love
        1. +2
          4 February 2023 15: 35
          Quote: parusnik
          So Nikolsky and the year 1979

          Greetings!
          Are you talking about the song? Alexey Romanov.

          Written somewhere in the 74-75th year of that century. laughing
          1. +2
            4 February 2023 20: 59
            Written, thundered in 79, performed by Nikolsky, author Romanov .. laughing
            1. +1
              5 February 2023 05: 39
              Quote: parusnik
              thundered at 79,

              It thundered in the 79th. But! It was Alexei Romanov who performed it! Nikolsky joined the group only at the end of the eighties! In the fall. bully hiHe was in the second team.
              Damn, how bad without *bell*! laughing
  18. +6
    4 February 2023 07: 21
    An approximate retelling of the content of the interview by me, a respected actor from Kiev, Guskov. "He grew up in Kyiv and his parents, when necessary, left him with their neighbors. These neighbors did the same when they needed them. In a word, they lived in harmony. Those neighbors of the Guskovs were Ukrainians. So, one day that Ukrainian neighbor speaks Russian Guskov's mother - that if anything, then coffins with Muscovites will float along the Dnieper. And since there are good Muscovites and there are bad Muscovites among Muscovites, good Muscovites will float in good coffins along the Dnieper, and bad Muscovites will float in bad coffins along the Depr .. .
    And it was already the seventies! So for a long time there they have been accustomed and poisoned with the drug of nationalism and hatred for Russians in this Ukraine. Guskov's interview is on youtube.
    1. +2
      4 February 2023 10: 49
      So in the 80s, I happened to meet such a "miracle" - an engineer ran around the plant in Central Russia, as they say, the color of the Soviet people, a graduate of a Moscow university, a Ukrainian, and informed everyone and everyone: "We will cut you, Muscovites! " And the factory was numbered, closed. And what? Where was the KGB looking? And he, the State Security Committee, averted his eyes! ..
      All this was part of the central government's plan to break up the USSR. Everything was planned in advance, everything! To do this, for many decades before the collapse, an alien ideology was cultivated and cultivated, outright Russophobia in the territories of all the Union republics - all! And by no means since the 91st year. And now they tell us that we are one people, only the damned Americans confused the heads of Ukrainians in 91, we should turn everything back. Excuse me, which way to turn?!? Back to the time before the breakup? There, where there was this very thing - "We will cut you, Muscovites!"?
      1. +5
        4 February 2023 11: 10
        . And now they tell us that we are one people, only the damned Americans confused the heads of Ukrainians in 91, we should turn everything back. Excuse me, which way to turn?!? Back to the time before the breakup? There, where there was this very thing - "We will cut you, Muscovites!"?

        I first heard this phrase as an eighth-grader in the Crimea, where I rested in the 78th year in the village of Frunzenskoye, now Partenit, at a disco where young people from western Ukraine tried to force them to announce songs in the state language. And for the first time they called me a Muscovite, they promised to sort it out, well, the local guys helped. The second time I was called a Muscovite already in 92 in Kyiv, on the square in front of the Moscow railway station, where there was a spontaneous food market ... there a woman attacked the saleswoman of sausage, which I wanted to buy on the road. She attacked with shouts "you are selling Ukraine to Muscovites." Since then, I have an association of Ukraine with smoked sausage.
        1. +2
          4 February 2023 11: 48
          at 89 in Donetsk at the railway station, passing with a group of classmates (excursion from school) - I heard about Muscovites - like - Muscovites arrived - from standing taxi drivers ... although then I didn’t hear anything like this for a week of stay - we lived in a hotel (next to the stadium "miner") - I don’t remember the name, we went to Mariupol ... we fell under the unloading of ore - red fog. quick retreat with closed doors and windows of the bus ..
  19. +1
    4 February 2023 07: 41
    In this article, I caught the following ideas:
    1. Disappointment from the failure of our policy of relations with the Slavs in general, and Ukrainians in particular.
    2. Disappointment from the fact that we do not have a way to reformat the consciousness of the inhabitants of Ukraine.
    3. The expectation that the Ukrainian people will eventually see the light and yearn to be reunited with their Russian brother.

    Dear author, I will write in a personal message.
    1. +5
      4 February 2023 08: 54
      Strange Russian enemies of the USSR, from whom did they expect and are waiting for insight? From the Ukrainian enemies of the USSR, who for decades in the USSR were eager to separate the Ukrainian SSR from the USSR? They, with their aggressive anti-Sovietism, hatred for the Russian supporters of the USSR, were waiting for insight from the Ukrainian supporters of the USSR?
    2. +14
      4 February 2023 09: 47
      we have no way to reformat the consciousness of the inhabitants of Ukraine.

      Here Dementy at the Goblin answered the question of whether it is possible, like, to re-educate the inhabitants of Tsegabonia, he answered simply brilliantly - if they are allowed to beat, then yes ..

      Understand that Russia's main problems when communicating with its neighbors is that we do not match their image of the owner. And therefore - we have no right to own them. Here the West corresponds perfectly, but we do not. It would seem that the Baltic states - for centuries they did not consider them as people, spread rot as soon as they could. And to this day they look at the German as a higher being with aspiration. And it would seem that the people who have done so much for them, rebuilt their territory, and generally preserved them, are looking at us like animals. Why? Yes, that's why. We are the wrong masters for them. We don't behave like this. We don’t beat snouts, we don’t rob, we distribute nishtyaki, we treat them like people. And in their view, slaves behave, not masters ..

      And so - all. The same Poles - after all, it is only thanks to us that Poland has generally survived as a state entity, the Polish language and culture have been preserved. If in the 18th century they fell entirely under the Germans, and not as part of the Republic of Ingushetia, they would have ironically suffered the fate of the Prussians or the Lyutichs. And it was we who returned the richest lands to them, which they squandered 800 years ago, and did not even dream of returning.

      And what - are there people who hate us more than the Poles? And we can’t take everything into account - for what ??? What have we done to them? That's it for that. That they owned them not corresponding to the high rank of the owner. And this is extremely insulting and humiliating for the local mentality. For we, from their point of view, behaved like slaves, not oppressing and only giving for free, but who will like it when a slave owns you?
      1. +6
        4 February 2023 10: 17
        What are you surprised and indignant about? Do the enemies of the USSR, who seized the RSFSR, have something different? For them, the Soviet communists in the USSR have done a lot of useful things, they have been parasitizing for 30 years at the expense of what was created and built in the RSFSR - BUT at the same time they fiercely hate the USSR and the Soviet people, slander them.
        In addition, the enemies of the USSR, who seized the republics of the USSR and the socialist countries of Eastern Europe, also hate each other.
  20. +6
    4 February 2023 08: 40
    About how many misfortunes villains can do with the consent of the "silent majority"

    ... can tell, including conscious Russians.
    Many of our former brothers still believe in a bright European future. Despite the blood, tears, darkness and political filth in which they sink deeper and deeper.

    Jesuitism as it is. As if blood, dirt, tears and darkness were brought to them by the EU.
    But did those who are now sitting in the trenches on the opposite side really not understand that Russia, a great power, will never allow itself to have a dangerous and evil NATO puppet at its borders? And that we will go to any lengths to ensure our safety?

    This is where you should have started. And finish with this. That would be more honest. We are strong, so it will be as we say. True, NATO is not strong enough, but who is weaker - let them be afraid. We do not feel sorry for our own people and do not take care of them properly, what can we say about some smaller countries that have not yet joined NATO. This is not Estonia, where Russians are stateless people. Estonia is already in NATO. And then we would show them!
    And what to do with Finland? Will we tolerate a "dangerous NATO puppet" near our borders, or will we tolerate excuses, such as "Finland is not a threat to us" and "this is different"?
    1. +6
      4 February 2023 12: 24
      Estonia, where Russians are people without citizenship.
      There is NOTHING stopping them from getting it. By the way, even without citizenship, they have almost the same rights as citizens. And yet, they are not at all eager to leave, and you can go from Narva to Russia on foot. Well, or swim across the river, 10 meters wide, if everything is so tired. However, they are clearly quite satisfied with everything.
      1. +2
        4 February 2023 12: 49
        Quote: Bolt Cutter
        There is NOTHING stopping them from getting it.

        It's true. The smallest thing is needed - to pass an exam in the Estonian language. But where has it been seen that a Russian person learns some kind of "Chukhonian language", right? Even though he was born in Estonia in the second / third generation ... It is not good for the sons of the Empire to condescend to the culture of small peoples who were under the heel of the imperial people ...
        Quote: Bolt Cutter
        However, they are clearly quite satisfied with everything.

        But this surprises and confuses... It was only the Anglo-Saxons who intervened... Not to move to Russia and live spiritually, justly and prosperously. No, they sit there, you know, in decaying Europe and vegetate on the sidelines ... Paradox ...
        1. +3
          4 February 2023 12: 51
          It is unsuitable for the sons of the Empire to condescend to the culture of small peoples
          The British in India did not disdain to learn the local languages.
          1. +3
            4 February 2023 13: 36
            Quote: Bolt Cutter
            The British in India did not disdain to learn the local languages.

            Straight all the British did not disdain? Was there no colonial snobbery? Kipling - he did not shun perhaps.
            But you don't seem to have caught the sarcasm in my comment. Arrogance and chauvinism do not lead to good - that's what I wanted to say. And also - unwillingness to understand the culture and mentality of this or that people. You need to be able to negotiate, and you won’t be forced to be nice.
            1. +4
              4 February 2023 13: 55
              didn't catch the sarcasm in my comment.
              In this matter, it’s difficult at VO - in all seriousness, one commentator said to me that he is a descendant of the winners and will not learn their dog language. But I "got it". And English colonial officers, quite without unnecessary show-off, taught the languages ​​​​of the conquered peoples of India and Africa. (The first Indian restaurant in London (and the oldest still open in Britain) was opened by a retired officer of the colonial troops, by the way).
              1. +2
                4 February 2023 14: 37
                Quote: Bolt Cutter
                one commentator said that he was a descendant of the winners and would not teach their dog language.

                A descendant of the winners ... but as you know - "nature rests on the children of geniuses." His children will be the descendants of the losers.
                Quote: Bolt Cutter
                And the English colonial officers, quite without unnecessary show-off, taught the languages ​​of the conquered peoples of India and Africa.

                I won't argue. I have not studied this issue. But, given the meticulous attitude to this or that issue among the "damned Anglo-Saxons", I can believe it.
            2. 0
              4 February 2023 16: 41
              Arrogance and chauvinism do not lead to good - that's what I wanted to say.

              One of the main sins is pride, so you can understand the meaning of the word ambition. Although translated from English, Honor is an honor. But we know the snobbery of the British and their honor, and therefore the ambition in Russian is pride and he has not gone far from chauvinism.
        2. +2
          4 February 2023 17: 30
          Quote: Hyperion
          It's true. The smallest thing is needed - to pass an exam in the Estonian language. But where has it been seen that a Russian person learns some kind of "Chukhonian language", right?

          I recalled that when the compulsory study of language in schools was canceled in the LPR and DPR, then in the comments they began to resent "as much as possible." People have been fighting for 7 or 6 years, I don’t remember exactly, so as not to be Ukrainians, but their children had to learn language.
          1. +1
            4 February 2023 18: 25
            Quote: Dart2027
            People have been fighting for 7 or 6 years, I don’t remember exactly, so as not to be Ukrainians, but their children had to learn language.

            People are hostages of politicians and propaganda. And language has nothing to do with it. In Russia, in addition to Russian, there are many regional ones. And what if Ukrainian is taught in Ukraine? What else should be studied? Such has already developed on those lands. Even more melodious and melodious.
            1. 0
              4 February 2023 18: 49
              Quote: Hyperion
              And what if Ukrainian is taught in Ukraine? What else should be studied?

              Quote: Dart2027
              People have been fighting for 7 or 6 years, I don’t remember exactly, so as not to be Ukrainians, but their children had to learn language.
              1. -4
                4 February 2023 19: 28
                Quote: Dart2027
                People have been fighting for 7 or 6 years, I don’t remember exactly, so as not to be Ukrainians, but their children had to learn language.

                Knowing the Ukrainian language does not mean being Ukrainian.
                1. +1
                  4 February 2023 19: 36
                  Quote: Hyperion
                  Know Ukrainian

                  Living in Russia? What for?
                  1. -2
                    4 February 2023 19: 40
                    Quote: Dart2027
                    Living in Russia?

                    So LDNR was only recently annexed to Russia. And there are Ukrainians there. It's their culture, after all.
                    1. +1
                      4 February 2023 20: 27
                      Quote: Hyperion
                      So LDNR was only recently annexed to Russia.

                      Quote: Dart2027
                      People have been fighting for 7 or 6 years, I don’t remember exactly, so as not to be Ukrainians, but their children had to learn language.
                      The fact that they would no longer be in any Ukraine was clear even then.
                      Quote: Hyperion
                      And there are Ukrainians there.
                      who were shooting at them.
                      Quote: Hyperion
                      It's their culture, after all.

                      That's just this "culture" was forcibly driven in by the policy of Ukrainization.
                      1. -2
                        4 February 2023 21: 10
                        Quote: Dart2027
                        who were shooting at them.

                        I mean Ukrainians - citizens of the LDNR. There are those.
                        Quote: Dart2027
                        That's just this "culture" was forcibly driven in by the policy of Ukrainization.

                        And who prevented Russia from spreading its influence and its culture? Moreover, enough Russians and Russian-speakers live in Ukraine. Overslept, and now it's too late. Even those who were for Russia no longer think so after the start of the NWO.
                      2. +1
                        4 February 2023 22: 50
                        Quote: Hyperion
                        I mean Ukrainians - citizens of the LDNR. There are those.

                        And what do they need to learn the Ukrainian language, which seems to be their native language? This is about the issue of learning foreign languages ​​- when a person comes to another country, he learns its language in the process of being in the language environment without any special training. If "he was born in Estonia in the second / third generation", and does not understand the local language, then either he is in principle incapable of learning other languages, this happens, or everyone around speaks Russian.
                        Quote: Hyperion
                        And who prevented Russia from spreading its influence and its culture?
                        Communists who pursued a policy of Ukrainization.
                        Quote: Hyperion
                        Even those who were for Russia no longer think so after the start of the NWO.
                        Especially those who are grabbed on the streets and driven into the Armed Forces of Ukraine with detachments behind their backs?
                      3. 0
                        5 February 2023 09: 54
                        Quote: Dart2027
                        And what do they need to learn the Ukrainian language, which seems to be their native language?

                        And how many Russians write illiterately in their own, it would seem, their native language? It turns out that you need to learn your own language.
                        Quote: Dart2027
                        Communists who pursued a policy of Ukrainization.

                        There have been no communists for 30 years. And those who came to replace them cannot even keep their citizens in the country. At home, inside the country, no normal ideology was concocted. Some empty slogans that only the most stubborn people believe in.
                        Quote: Dart2027
                        Especially those who are grabbed on the streets and driven into the Armed Forces of Ukraine with detachments behind their backs?

                        No matter how it turned out to be propaganda tales about detachments. On the other side, the same tales are circulating about Russian detachments.
                      4. -1
                        5 February 2023 11: 51
                        Quote: Hyperion
                        There have been no communists for 30 years.

                        And it changes what they created Ukraine?
                        Quote: Hyperion
                        And those who came to replace them cannot even keep their citizens in the country.

                        In the USSR, going abroad was a privilege.
                        Quote: Hyperion
                        At home, inside the country, no normal ideology was concocted.
                        How much did she help the USSR? And where did you get the idea that if they accept some kind of ideology, then it will be the way you want?
                        Quote: Hyperion
                        No matter how it turned out to be propaganda tales about detachments. On the other side, the same tales are circulating about Russian detachments.
                        How long is the mobilization going on there and how much do we have?
                        Quote: Hyperion
                        It turns out that you need to learn your own language.
                        and demand it from everyone? No one forbids those who wish, that's just
                        Quote: Dart2027
                        If "he was born in Estonia in the second / third generation", and does not understand the local language, then either he is in principle incapable of learning other languages, this happens, or everyone around speaks Russian.

                        As experience shows, all Bandera people, for some reason, forgetting, begin to speak precisely in Russian.
                      5. 0
                        5 February 2023 12: 15
                        Quote: Dart2027
                        And it changes what they created Ukraine?

                        The communists created a lot of things. Until now, Russia is using the Soviet backlog. And what is it that they created Ukraine? For the multinational USSR, with one people or a republic more or less, there is not much difference. The main thing is to competently work with the separatist sentiments there.
                        Russia, for example, "created" Chechnya - a special region with its own army. And nothing. Bye...
                        Quote: Dart2027
                        And where did you get the idea that if they accept some kind of ideology, then it will be the way you want?

                        Why exactly, the one I want? We need one that would help to develop and progress. It would give an opportunity for goal-setting and planning for decades.
                        Quote: Dart2027
                        If "he was born in Estonia in the second / third generation", and does not understand the local language, then either he is in principle incapable of learning other languages, this happens, or everyone around speaks Russian.

                        Either laziness or rejection of the local culture.
                        Quote: Dart2027
                        As experience shows, all Bandera people, for some reason, forgetting, begin to speak precisely in Russian.

                        But what about the theses of propaganda that the Russian language is hated in Ukarin and they are striving to ban it in every possible way?
                      6. -1
                        5 February 2023 13: 07
                        Quote: Hyperion
                        The communists created a lot of things. Until now, Russia is using the Soviet backlog.
                        Just like they used royal.

                        Quote: Hyperion
                        And what is it that they created Ukraine? For the multinational USSR, with more or less one people or a republic, there is not much difference.
                        Well, if there is no difference, then why create?
                        Quote: Hyperion
                        Russia, for example, "created" Chechnya
                        Chechens are really a separate people, so no one created them.
                        Quote: Hyperion
                        We need one that would help to develop and progress.
                        And what prevents you from doing your job without ideology?
                        Quote: Hyperion
                        Either laziness or rejection of the local culture.

                        Quote: Dart2027
                        when a person comes to another country, he learns its language in the process of being in the language environment without any special training

                        Quote: Hyperion
                        that the Russian language is hated in Ukarin and they try to ban it in every possible way
                        That's why they hate it, because they understand very well that there will be no Ukrainianism without state support. Back in 2014, one of the figures there said that in order to preserve Ukraine, one can become part of Turkey, but in no case Russia, because in the second case it will simply disappear.
                      7. -1
                        5 February 2023 15: 04
                        Quote: Dart2027
                        Just like they used royal.

                        What is this? That notorious "plow" with which Stalin took over the country?
                        Quote: Dart2027
                        Well, if there is no difference, then why create?

                        Well, they wanted to and created. Apparently they had their own ideas. Who then could have known that everything would turn out like this?
                        Quote: Dart2027
                        Chechens are really a separate people, so no one created them.

                        Modern Chechnya, this unique and original subject of the Russian Federation was created by Russia.
                        Quote: Dart2027
                        And what prevents you from doing your job without ideology?

                        Not having confidence in the future and not seeing more or less the outlines of the future? Difficult. It is not clear what next trick will be thrown by "ilita". Either they are friends with "dear partners", or they are at enmity. "Stability" only in words.
                        Quote: Dart2027
                        That's why they hate it, because they understand very well that there will be no Ukrainianism without state support.

                        Well, at the moment, such a push has been given to Ukrainians for development. "Nations are forged in war" or something like that.
                      8. 0
                        5 February 2023 15: 16
                        Quote: Hyperion
                        That notorious "plow" with which Stalin took over the country

                        From Lenin and Trotsky.
                        Quote: Hyperion
                        Well, they wanted to and created. Apparently they had their own ideas.
                        That is, nothing more or less intelligible can not be invented. Well, of course, in a country that has just emerged from the most difficult GV, there is nothing more necessary than starting the process of creating new peoples.
                        Quote: Hyperion
                        Modern Chechnya, this unique and peculiar subject
                        Unique in the sense that they live by their own concepts? So it was in the USSR, and among all the peoples there.
                        Quote: Hyperion
                        It is not clear what next trick will be thrown by "ilita". Either they are friends with "dear partners", or they are at enmity.
                        It's always like this in politics, regardless of ideologies. If, however, to put ideology at the forefront, then this ends with a separation from reality.
                        Quote: Hyperion
                        Well, at the moment, such a push has been given to Ukrainians for development. "Nations are forged in war" or something like that.
                        Yes, they began to sing this song when it became clear that Russia did come to the war, and would end it with the liquidation of "Ukraine named after Lenin." In addition, they sang about the same thing during the coup attempt in Belarus, saying "now you have not supported us, the people will not forgive."
                      9. -1
                        5 February 2023 16: 37
                        Quote: Dart2027
                        Well, of course, in a country that has just emerged from the most difficult Civil War, there is nothing more necessary than starting the process of creating new peoples.

                        Not from scratch did they create "new peoples"? Or were there Russian people through and through, and they were forced to call themselves Ukrainians and speak the language of language?
                        Quote: Dart2027
                        Unique in the sense that they live by their own concepts?

                        Unique - in the status of the local head and his own security forces.
                        Quote: Dart2027
                        If, however, to put ideology at the forefront, then this ends with a separation from reality.

                        It is not necessary at the forefront, but ideology is also needed for harmonious development.
                        Quote: Dart2027
                        Yes, they began to sing this song when it became clear that Russia had come to the war, and would end it with the liquidation of "Ukraine named after Lenin."

                        Is it worth it to run ahead of the locomotive? For almost a year now, the "end of liquidation" has been going on, and the end is not yet in sight.
                        Quote: Dart2027
                        the same was sung during the attempted coup in Belarus

                        And what about Belarus? Belarusians are also fake people in your opinion?
                      10. 0
                        5 February 2023 20: 58
                        Quote: Hyperion
                        Not from scratch did they create "new peoples"? Or were there Russian people through and through, and they were forced to call themselves Ukrainians and speak the language of language?

                        The Ukrainization policy is an official and never disputed fact. As well as the fact that for its implementation it was necessary to invite Ukrainian teachers from Poland and Austria, forgiving them everything.
                        Quote: Hyperion
                        in the status of the local head and own security officials

                        As I already wrote, all these peoples lived according to their own concepts in the USSR.
                        Quote: Hyperion
                        but for harmonious development ideology is also needed

                        It's only then that it does more harm than good.
                        Quote: Hyperion
                        and the end is not yet in sight
                        For quite a long time they tried to act in a sparing mode, and now the process has gone on as an adult.
                        Quote: Hyperion

                        And what about Belarus?
                        So they said the same thing. And it did not become a second Ukraine solely because of Lukashenka.
                        Quote: Hyperion
                        Belarusians are also fake people in your opinion

                        The Soviet Socialist Republic of Belarus at the present time (after the defeat in the Soviet-Polish war. - "History") consists of only six districts. The organization of an exemplary Soviet Republic on this territory is unthinkable in all respects, and therefore it is necessary to expand its borders to the East at the expense of the lands, which, together with the counties of the Minsk province, constitute a single production, economic and ethnographic Belarusian organism, that is, it should be added to the SSRB, of course , Vitebsk province, Gomel province, counties of the former Mogilev province, attached to Smolensk, and from the Smolensk province, of course, Krasnensky and Porechsky counties.

                        https://www.kommersant.ru/doc/3906827
                      11. -1
                        6 February 2023 10: 35
                        Quote: Dart2027
                        As well as the fact that for its implementation it was necessary to invite Ukrainian teachers from Poland and Austria, forgiving them everything.

                        If there were teachers of Ukrainian, then the Ukrainian language was? Were there those who wanted to study it?
                        Quote: Dart2027
                        As I already wrote, all these peoples lived according to their own concepts in the USSR.

                        Yes, what are the concepts? Tatarstan or Kalmykia also have their own concepts. But there is no army there, and the heads of those regions do not have the political weight that Kadyrov has.
                        Quote: Dart2027
                        It's only then that it does more harm than good.

                        It depends on what ideology. Communism as an idea is not bad at all. But its carriers can blunder, unfortunately.
                        Quote: Dart2027
                        For quite a long time they tried to act in a sparing mode, and now the process has gone on as an adult.

                        This is how to say ... They wanted demilitarization, but they received the replacement of their own weapons with Western models. And we should not forget that the "sparing regime" may well be an excuse for poor-quality intelligence and an erroneous assessment of the mood of the inhabitants of Ukraine. A la "they will meet us with flowers, as in the Crimea."
                        Quote: Dart2027
                        And it did not become a second Ukraine solely because of Lukashenka.

                        "The fate of the people is fragile if it depends on the will and whim of one person" (c)
                        Quote: Dart2027
                        The organization of an exemplary Soviet Republic on this territory is unthinkable in all respects.

                        If I understand correctly, then Belarus, as a republic, is also not entirely located on its territories? And if not for Lukashenka, would the Russians need to defend their homeland there too?
                      12. 0
                        6 February 2023 11: 29
                        Quote: Hyperion
                        If there were teachers of Ukrainian, then the Ukrainian language was?
                        But not on the territory of Ukraine, but Austria-Hungary. About those who want to study it to Lenin.
                        Quote: Hyperion
                        the heads of those regions do not have the political weight that Kadyrov has
                        Considering the difference in who and how much did raking in the consequences of the 90s, it is not surprising.
                        Quote: Hyperion
                        there is no army
                        These are units of the RF Armed Forces, and as for national troubles, conscripts from the Caucasus have always been a very specific contingent and sometimes chipped off numbers in the spirit of capturing entire HF (and in Soviet times).
                        Quote: Hyperion
                        Communism as an idea is not bad at all. But
                        Almost perfect (I'm serious), in practice it's not feasible.
                        Quote: Hyperion
                        They wanted demilitarization, but received the replacement of their own weapons with Western models.
                        Delivering weapons is not even half the battle. All these tanks, MLRS, etc. it needs to be serviced, and in Ukraine there is simply no one to do it, so you have to carry it to Poland. Yes, and the quantity supplied is greatly reduced. The same Leopards may put a couple of hundred and that's not a fact.
                        Quote: Hyperion
                        "sparing regime" may well be an excuse for poor-quality intelligence
                        Maybe, but what difference does it make? Russia more or less seriously began to beat only in the fall. As for the readiness of Ukrainians to die for the interests of the United States, the Americans themselves did not expect this either. If this were not the case, then for these 8 years they would have been supplying heavy weapons and putting the existing ones in order.
                        Quote: Hyperion
                        The fate of the people is fragile if it depends on the will and whim of one person.
                        Therefore, Belarus can expect very "fun" times.
                        Quote: Hyperion
                        If I understand correctly, then
                        Belarus is the same product of Lenin's policy as Ukraine. The difference is that the Austro-Hungarian special services, who conceived the project of dividing the Russian people, focused mainly on Little Russia, so they initially received much less poison. And yes, if it were not for Lukashenko, then the United States would have pushed through its henchmen and everything would have started there, the same as in Ukraine.
                      13. -1
                        6 February 2023 11: 54
                        Quote: Dart2027
                        But not on the territory of Ukraine, but Austria-Hungary.

                        On the territory of Ukraine, everyone spoke in literary Russian...
                        Quote: Dart2027
                        Considering the difference in who and how much did raking in the consequences of the 90s, it is not surprising.

                        Considering the size of subsidies, it is not surprising.
                        Quote: Dart2027
                        Delivering weapons is not even half the battle. All these tanks, MLRS, etc. you need to serve, but in Ukraine there is simply no one to do it

                        "If you want to live - know how to spin." At this pace, either foreign specialists will be attracted, or they will learn themselves.
                        Quote: Dart2027
                        These are parts of the RF Armed Forces,

                        De jure of the National Guard. Well, it seems like a couple of new battalions belong to the Armed Forces. But given the national composition of the units ... Under the Union, this was not the case, a fact.
                        Quote: Dart2027
                        Maybe, but what difference does it make?

                        For example, the attitude to the competence of the command?
                        Quote: Dart2027
                        As for the readiness of Ukrainians to die for the interests of the United States

                        controversial thesis. Why for the interests of the United States, and not for their homeland, as they understand it? They also write everything about the Russians. That they, they say, are dying for the interests of Putin.
                        Quote: Dart2027
                        And yes, if it were not for Lukashenko, then the United States would have pushed through its henchmen and everything would have started there, the same as in Ukraine.

                        It seems that Russia fails to serve as a model and center of gravity for the former republics, since they can be so easily torn away from under the Russian sphere of influence. Only if the force of the Russian Federation will "return". But will there be enough power for all the neighbors? And what good will come of it? How not to overstrain in the process. Internal problems through the roof ...
                      14. 0
                        6 February 2023 13: 50
                        Quote: Hyperion
                        On the territory of Ukraine, everyone spoke in literary Russian...
                        I don’t remember how many times on this site in the comments photos of newspapers were shown where those who did not want to learn MOV were threatened with various punishments. And yes, they spoke Russian.
                        Quote: Hyperion
                        Considering the size of the subsidies,
                        When did they rebuild what was destroyed? And what was left of the ruins?
                        Quote: Hyperion
                        At this pace, either foreign specialists will be attracted
                        Already trying. The truth is, the question is how many people will want to go under Russian missiles.
                        Quote: Hyperion
                        Under the Union, this was not the case.
                        Because during the Second World War, if half of the Russians were not in the unit, then it immediately surrendered to the Germans.
                        Quote: Hyperion
                        For example, the attitude to the competence of the command?

                        Quote: Dart2027
                        As for the readiness of Ukrainians to die for the interests of the United States, the Americans themselves did not expect this either. If this were not the case, then for these 8 years they would have been supplying heavy weapons and putting the existing ones in order.

                        Quote: Hyperion
                        Why for the interests of the United States, and not for their homeland, as they understand it?
                        For example, because the United States has been in command there for a long time already openly.
                        Quote: Hyperion
                        It seems that Russia fails to serve as a model and center of gravity for the former republics, since they can be so easily torn away from under the Russian sphere of influence.
                        Let's remember how joyfully all these republics fled from the USSR.
                      15. -1
                        6 February 2023 14: 35
                        Quote: Dart2027
                        And yes, they spoke Russian.

                        Something is doubtful. Most likely balakali on surzhik. Apart from the eastern regions and Kyiv. In the Carpathians, in general, a separate dialect. Maybe the communists decided to bring everyone to a common denominator and introduced Ukrainian.
                        Quote: Dart2027
                        When did they rebuild what was destroyed?

                        Even after that.
                        Quote: Dart2027
                        The truth is, the question is how many people will want to go under Russian missiles.

                        I remember they told how foreign mercenaries at the beginning of the NWO all got scared and ran away. And today they write that almost all the Armed Forces of Ukraine consist of mercenaries ...
                        Quote: Dart2027
                        Because during the Second World War, if half of the Russians were not in the unit, then it immediately surrendered to the Germans.

                        Let's hope such incidents are in the past.
                        Quote: Dart2027
                        For example, because the United States has been in command there for a long time already openly.

                        In Vietnam, the Middle East and North Korea, there were also enough instructors and advisers from the USSR. Moreover, the "Li-Xi-Qings" themselves sometimes sat at the controls of aircraft and behind air defense installations. And for some reason there were no statements that the Vietnamese and Koreans were dying for the Soviet Union.
                        Quote: Dart2027
                        Let's remember how joyfully all these republics fled from the USSR.

                        Not everyone is happy. The Balts - yes, they skipped running. The rest were confused at first. It was only later, in view of the fact that it was necessary to somehow live on, the cries of oppression and colonialism began. It was necessary to make excuses to the population for the decline in living standards.
                      16. 0
                        6 February 2023 18: 19
                        Quote: Hyperion
                        Maybe the communists decided to bring everyone to a common denominator and introduced Ukrainian.
                        But religious beliefs did not allow to bring to a common denominator by introducing Russian?
                        Quote: Hyperion
                        Even after that.
                        So what are the subsidies? And then when I asked fans to talk about them to give a specific answer about how much money they bring in and how much they get in addition to it, then everyone I asked began to evade the answer.
                        Quote: Hyperion
                        Moreover, the "Li-Xi-Qings" themselves sometimes sat at the controls of aircraft and behind air defense installations.
                        Li Xi Qing fought, not led the governments of these countries.
                        Quote: Hyperion
                        I remember they told how foreign mercenaries at the beginning of the NWO all got scared and ran away.
                        They never talked about everyone, about a third, which is also decent. But there are strong doubts about who the current mercenaries are. In the same Poland, a lot of the military suddenly wanted to leave the service, fearing a war with Russia. Yes, and all PMCs, in fact, are just branches of special services, both ours and Americans.
                        Quote: Hyperion
                        Not everyone is happy.
                        Of all the then leaders, only Nazarbayev did not want to, but I don’t remember this about the rest.
                      17. -1
                        6 February 2023 18: 47
                        Quote: Dart2027
                        But religious beliefs did not allow to bring to a common denominator by introducing Russian?

                        It would look strange - the Ukrainian republic, and the Russian language? In addition to the Ukrainian SSR, the RSFSR itself had a bunch of national republics. I wrote - one more or less - essentially no difference. All the same, there was, apparently, a certain reason to introduce Ukrainian language.
                        Quote: Dart2027
                        So what are the subsidies? And then when I asked fans to talk about them to give a specific answer

                        https://www.rbc.ru/politics/24/01/2022/61eeb86c9a7947253a982a9b
                        Quote: Dart2027
                        Li Xi Qing fought, not led the governments of these countries.

                        They may not have led, but they were advisers. They sent younger comrades on the bright path of communism. The same Kim Il Sung - the captain of the Red Army, who was sent from the USSR to Korea - as an example of implicit leadership.
                        Quote: Dart2027
                        In the same Poland, a lot of the military suddenly wanted to leave the service, fearing a war with Russia.

                        Again 25. Either they got scared and left, then "Polish speech is heard on the radio near Bakhmut." In general: someone was scared, but someone was not. Among those who are not frightened, it is quite possible that there will be specialists of the necessary profile of the Armed Forces of Ukraine, and the whole business is something.
                        Quote: Dart2027
                        Of all the then leaders, only Nazarbayev did not want to

                        Yes, the whole of Central Asia did not want to. Well, the Georgians / Armenians were also not particularly eager. Firstly: the habit of living in the Union, and secondly: well-established economic and organizational ties.
                      18. 0
                        7 February 2023 07: 02
                        Quote: Hyperion
                        It would look strange - the Ukrainian republic, and the Russian language?
                        That is, it is necessary to create a republic in order to introduce a language brought from abroad?
                        Quote: Hyperion
                        https://www.rbc.ru/politics/24/01/2022/61eeb86c9a7947253a982a9b
                        And now we are looking at subsidies to equalize budgetary security in terms of a person per month.
                        https://russia.duck.consulting/maps/113 И Чечня почему-то далеко не на первом месте.
                        Или вот https://www.rbc.ru/economics/28/01/2022/61f29f439a79470585f7f0d5
                        Quote: Hyperion
                        They may not have led, but they were advisers.
                        Were. Only not Li-Xi-Qing, but completely different people. And this does not change the fact that after 2014 Ukraine does not have its own government.
                        Quote: Hyperion
                        In general: someone was scared, but someone was not.
                        And?
                        Quote: Dart2027
                        They never talked about everyone, about a third, which is also decent.

                        Quote: Hyperion
                        Among the unafraid, it is quite possible that there will be specialists of the desired profile of the Armed Forces of Ukraine
                        The question is how many there will be. In Poland, special cemeteries had to be created.
                        Quote: Hyperion
                        Central Asia did not want to. Well, the Georgians / Armenians were also not particularly eager.
                        And that's why they've been rowdy since 1988?
                      19. -1
                        7 February 2023 09: 58
                        Quote: Dart2027
                        That is, it is necessary to create a republic in order to introduce a language brought from abroad?

                        The main (official) language in the USSR was still Russian. And Ukrainian was not fully introduced. The locals spoke something similar. Well, surzhik, I wrote.
                        Quote: Dart2027
                        And for some reason, Chechnya is far from in the first place.

                        Not far from the first place. And there is an opinion that the North Caucasian republics ascribe to themselves the number of inhabitants in order to receive more subsidies.
                        Quote: Dart2027
                        Only not Li-Xi-Qing, but completely different people. And this does not change the fact that after 2014 Ukraine does not have its own government.

                        What kind of people are these, not Li Xi Qing, I wonder?
                        You might think that Russia has "its own" government. Given the "successes" and "care for the population" ...
                        Quote: Dart2027
                        And?

                        And I wrote that there are specialists in Western technology who are not afraid of Russian missiles.
                        Quote: Dart2027
                        In Poland, special cemeteries had to be created.

                        There was such a stuffing from a Polish pro-Russian publication, yeah.
                        Quote: Dart2027
                        And that's why they've been rowdy since 1988?

                        They rioted, but not with the government of the republic at the head. Opposition, most likely driven by Western agents or local separatists.
                      20. 0
                        7 February 2023 13: 35
                        Quote: Hyperion
                        The locals spoke something similar. Well, surzhik, I wrote.
                        And then why did they carry out the policy of Ukrainization?
                        Quote: Hyperion
                        there is an opinion that the North Caucasian republics ascribe to themselves the number of inhabitants in order to receive more subsidies.
                        Well, it's hard to say. But who is there first? Well, you can’t blame them for the fact that they collect some kind of “tribute.
                        Quote: Hyperion
                        What kind of people are these, not Li Xi Qing, I wonder?
                        Councilors who sat in the capitals.
                        Quote: Hyperion
                        You might think that Russia has "its own" government. Given the "successes" and "care for the population" ...
                        Yes, yes, yes ... Considering that we now have a new cold war, at least, this is not even funny anymore.
                        Quote: Hyperion
                        there are specialists in Western technology who are not afraid of Russian missiles.
                        The question is their number. Ours are constantly hitting their rear, including repair bases.
                        Quote: Hyperion
                        There was such a stuffing from a Polish pro-Russian publication, yeah.
                        What was the rebuttal?
                        Quote: Hyperion
                        They rioted, but not with the government of the republic at the head.
                        If the governments did not support this, then everything would stop in a couple of days.
                      21. 0
                        7 February 2023 16: 54
                        Quote: Dart2027
                        And then why did they carry out the policy of Ukrainization?

                        The "chip" of the communist ideology was that all nations are brothers. And the community of the peoples of the USSR was built not on nationality, but on the brotherhood of workers and peasants. Perhaps, at that time, after the Civil War, such a model for building a republic was appropriate, given the realities.
                        Quote: Dart2027
                        But who is there first? Well, you can’t blame them for the fact that they collect some kind of “tribute.

                        And what does Moscow, which is in the first place, do? Probably fairly distributes all-Russian income ...
                        Quote: Dart2027
                        Councilors who sat in the capitals.

                        Were there advisers from the Union? And it is unlikely that they advised to stop the war and surrender.
                        Quote: Dart2027
                        Given that we now have a new cold war, at least, this is not even funny anymore.

                        Doesn't look like "cold". Looks like "warm". Is this not success and merit?
                        Quote: Dart2027
                        The question is their number.

                        As for the number - wait and see. What's the point of arguing about it now?
                        Quote: Dart2027
                        What was the rebuttal?

                        Was. From Rybar. This is such a telegram channel covering the NWO. Russian.
                        https://t.me/rybar/41554
                        Quote: Dart2027
                        If the governments did not support this, then everything would stop in a couple of days.

                        Maidan in Ukraine Yanukovych's government did not seem to support..?
                      22. 0
                        7 February 2023 19: 22
                        Quote: Hyperion

                        The "chip" of the communist ideology was that all nations are brothers. And the community of the peoples of the USSR was built not on nationality, but on the brotherhood of workers and peasants.
                        Yes. And exclusively at the expense of the Russians.
                        Quote: Hyperion
                        Probably fairly distributes all-Russian income ...
                        Like any other capital.
                        Quote: Hyperion
                        Were there advisers from the Union?
                        By itself. This I do not deny.
                        Quote: Hyperion
                        Doesn't look like "cold". Looks like "warm".
                        Warm this when officially. Although in fact the shooting goes on.
                        Quote: Hyperion
                        Russian.
                        https://t.me/rybar/41554
                        Looked. That's just not a rebuttal. It says that the source is not the most reliable and immediately adds that there are Polish military in Ukraine, and in large numbers.
                        Quote: Hyperion
                        Maidan in Ukraine did not seem to be supported by Yanukovych's government
                        Sure? It was prepared by the Americans and from the very beginning they twisted Yanukovych's arms and used their influence. Plus, Ukrainian oligarchs and the officials lured by them were also actively noted there. Plus people from the "team" of Yanukovych himself, like Levochkin. And what of this was in the republics of the USSR? Nothing.
                      23. 0
                        7 February 2023 20: 27
                        Quote: Dart2027
                        Yes. And exclusively at the expense of the Russians.

                        Not exactly exclusive. Other nations did nothing at all? And then: if the communists put the Russian people above all else, what would this result in in a multinational country? This is not even now. On the example of the same Chechnya. How many Russian regions can compare with it in terms of subsidies?
                        Quote: Dart2027
                        Like any other capital.

                        I should have put the word "fair" in quotation marks.
                        Quote: Dart2027
                        By itself. This I do not deny.

                        So it can be argued that there was leadership (albeit indirect)? After all, in Ukraine, too, de jure, the government consists of local people? But advisers, for example, are already directing where they need to go.
                        Quote: Dart2027
                        But this is not a refutation... ...and it is immediately added that there are Polish military in Ukraine, and in large numbers.

                        But this source does not inspire confidence either. And about the large number of Polish military men - maybe they are leaving the army not because they were afraid of a war with Russia, but because they are going on vacation to Ukraine?
                        Quote: Dart2027
                        And what of this was in the republics of the USSR? Nothing.

                        And in which of the republics of the USSR did the "Maidan" win?
                      24. 0
                        8 February 2023 08: 22
                        Quote: Hyperion
                        Not exactly exclusive. Other nations did nothing at all?
                        Well, where was something taken from some peoples in favor of the Russians?
                        Quote: Hyperion
                        if the communists put the Russian people above all else, then what would this result in in a multinational country
                        Before that, for some reason, they lived and no one had any questions. But when the Russophobe Lenin came to power, for some reason they immediately appeared.
                        Quote: Hyperion
                        How many Russian regions can compare with it in terms of subsidies?
                        Will Crimea suit?
                        Quote: Hyperion
                        So it can be argued that there was leadership (albeit indirect)?
                        Maybe then it was all less frank than it is now. But in Ukraine, the minimum decency is not respected.
                        Quote: Hyperion
                        maybe they are leaving the army not because they were afraid of a war with Russia, but because they are going on vacation to Ukraine
                        And that is why the Polish government goes out of its way to stop the process?
                        Quote: Hyperion
                        And in which of the republics of the USSR did the "Maidan" win?
                        Judging by the fact that they all left him, then in all.
                      25. 0
                        8 February 2023 09: 12
                        Quote: Dart2027
                        Well, where was something taken from some peoples in favor of the Russians?

                        In what sense did it "pick up"? The rest of the peoples also plowed and sowed, served in the army, worked, etc. If you are talking about territories, then there are many national republics in the RSFSR that were not given the status of a separate socialist one. It turns out that they kind of "took" them for themselves.
                        Quote: Dart2027
                        Before that, for some reason, they lived and no one had any questions.

                        Prior to this, it was not the Russian (and not any other) common people that were valued above all, but the aristocracy, which was not only Russian, but also included representatives of various nationalities. The same Nicholas 2, the Tsar of All Rus', was about 10 percent Russian.
                        Quote: Dart2027
                        Will Crimea suit?

                        Crimea is not "many regions". In addition, Crimea is a special article, you understand.
                        Quote: Dart2027
                        Maybe then it was all less frank than it is now.

                        Then there was a more subtle policy in this regard.
                        Quote: Dart2027
                        And that is why the Polish government goes out of its way to stop the process?

                        The Polish government is going out of its way to keep this out of the public eye at the official level. And these are different things.
                        Quote: Dart2027
                        Judging by the fact that they all left him, then in all.

                        What was left to do? "Three Little Pigs" in Belovezhskaya Pushcha signed a decree on the division of the USSR and confronted the rest of the heads of the republics. "Congratulations, guys! From this day on, you are independent. Spin as you like."...
                      26. 0
                        8 February 2023 21: 14
                        Quote: Hyperion
                        In what sense did it "pick up"?
                        Have you already forgotten what we are talking about?

                        Quote: Hyperion
                        If you are talking about territories, then there are many national republics in the RSFSR that were not given the status of a separate socialist one. It turns out that they kind of "took" them for themselves.
                        And it was necessary to distribute to everyone, and even with the territories that they never belonged to? There is a fact - Russian lands inhabited by Russians were separated and policies of something were carried out on them, convincing people that they were not Russians.
                        Quote: Hyperion
                        The rest of the peoples also plowed and sowed
                        Do you want to talk about subsidies to the USSR, again at the expense of Russians?
                        Quote: Hyperion
                        In addition, Crimea is a special article, you understand.
                        Why? Let's skip the articles.
                        Quote: Hyperion
                        The Polish government is going out of its way to keep this out of the public eye at the official level.
                        What are they running from the army? So they officially talk about it and seek to keep people by raising salaries.
                        Quote: Hyperion
                        "Three Little Pigs" in Belovezhskaya Pushcha signed a decree on the division of the USSR and confronted the rest of the heads of the republics.

                        And before that there was the "Parade of Sovereignties" and the "Novoogarevsky process". Since then, no one can remove the blame, but they were not the only ones to blame.
                      27. 0
                        9 February 2023 09: 32
                        Quote: Dart2027
                        And it was necessary to distribute to everyone, and even with the territories that they never belonged to?

                        There was no need to distribute. As Georges Miloslavsky said: "So you won't get enough of any volosts." But then they thought differently. That everyone will live in harmony in one family of peoples under the wise leadership of the Party. It is now, in retrospect, it is clear that there were errors in the delimitation of the territory.
                        Quote: Dart2027
                        Do you want to talk about subsidies to the USSR, again at the expense of Russians?

                        Was it all at the expense of the Russians? What in the USSR, what in the RSFSR, only Russians worked and moved progress? But let it be your way. What has changed now? In addition, at that time there was no such influx of migrants. Everyone sat in their republics and everyone had a job. On the contrary, it was engineers, teachers, etc. who went to the republics.
                        Quote: Dart2027
                        Why? Let's skip the articles.

                        Will not work. Crimea, in theory, should be a showcase of the "Russian world". It must be shown that everything was not in vain? That "returning to home harbor" brings with it positive moments.
                        Quote: Dart2027
                        So they officially talk about it and seek to keep people by raising salaries.

                        There is no option that they are thus throwing dust in the eyes? In order not to be accused of participating in the conflict in Ukraine of their military? Didn't the Russian military leave in 2014 and "go on vacation" in order to take part, so to speak?
                        Quote: Dart2027
                        And before that there was the "Parade of Sovereignties" and the "Novoogarevsky process".

                        So there, EMNIP, the Balts played the first violin. But the collapse has already gone to the Belovezhskaya agreements, you are right. Although, not all republics wanted to finally break off relations, and most of them agreed to the new format of the USSR - the Union of Sovereign States.
                      28. 0
                        9 February 2023 19: 06
                        Quote: Hyperion
                        But then they thought differently. That everyone will live in harmony in one family of peoples under the wise leadership of the Party.
                        Did religious beliefs or Russophobia prevent people from living in Russia?
                        Quote: Hyperion
                        Was it all at the expense of the Russians? What in the USSR, what in the RSFSR, only Russians worked and moved progress?
                        That is, we do not argue with the fact that all these republics were maintained at the expense of the RSFSR.
                        Quote: Hyperion
                        On the contrary, it was engineers, teachers, etc. who went to the republics.
                        Learned at whose expense?
                        Quote: Hyperion
                        Crimea, in theory, should be a showcase of the "Russian world".
                        With shop windows it is to the USSR. They loved it there, and then the inhabitants of these shop windows began to twist their faces.
                        Quote: Hyperion
                        There is no option that they are thus throwing dust in the eyes? In order not to be accused of participating in the conflict in Ukraine of their military?
                        Are they ashamed of it?
                        Quote: Hyperion
                        and most of them agreed to the new format of the USSR - the SSG (Union of Sovereign States)
                        In fact, this "union" was a fake to cover up the collapse, and if ordinary people could not understand this, then the tops had a different level of awareness.
                      29. 0
                        10 February 2023 08: 56
                        Quote: Dart2027
                        Did religious beliefs or Russophobia prevent people from living in Russia?

                        The communists had to collect the territories of the former empire again. But already on other principles.
                        Quote: Dart2027
                        That is, we do not argue with the fact that all these republics were maintained at the expense of the RSFSR.

                        Contained - loudly said. Grants received - do not argue. But one should take into account that, firstly, the RSFSR was the most industrially and scientifically developed republic, and secondly, quite a few Russians themselves lived in the republics (in Kazakhstan, for example, Russians were in the majority). What happens? The locals themselves did not work, and they did not give the Russians?
                        Quote: Dart2027
                        Learned at whose expense?

                        At the expense of the entire USSR. The size of the "mite" contributed to education varies, of course, but, as I wrote above, the development of the republics was different.
                        Quote: Dart2027
                        With shop windows it is to the USSR. They loved it there, and then the inhabitants of these shop windows began to twist their faces.

                        Well, in the Crimea they don’t slander, and it’s good.
                        Quote: Dart2027
                        Are they ashamed of it?

                        They may be shy, they may be afraid. Who knows? Russia, on the other hand, was so embarrassed by the "Ihtamnets" that it became a meme. But Poland is still a NATO country, and at the moment, apparently, the time has not yet come to show the cards.
                        Quote: Dart2027
                        then the tops had a different level of awareness.

                        Or maybe they just couldn’t do anything and rushed with the flow of circumstances. The USSR by that time was no longer the same as before. The fish rots from the head, as you know.
                      30. 0
                        10 February 2023 13: 22
                        Quote: Hyperion
                        The communists had to collect the territories of the former empire again.
                        AND? Did religion interfere with collecting normally? Or recall my example from 1924 - who did they collect there?
                        Quote: Hyperion
                        But one should take into account that, firstly: the RSFSR was the most industrially and scientifically developed republic, and secondly: quite a few Russians themselves lived in the republics
                        That is, you yourself admit that purely Russian regions joined these republics. And about how the locals worked - so they had to import the labor of their RSFSR there, I wonder why?
                        Quote: Hyperion
                        They may be shy, they may be afraid.
                        I don't remember anything like that, quite the opposite.
                        Quote: Hyperion
                        Or maybe they just couldn’t do anything and rushed with the flow of circumstances. The USSR by that time was no longer the same as before. The fish rots from the head, as you know.
                        So if from the head, then it just turns out that they were behind everything.
                      31. 0
                        10 February 2023 18: 25
                        Quote: Dart2027
                        Did religion interfere with collecting normally?

                        Collected as best they could. In accordance with the realities of that time and ideology.
                        Quote: Dart2027
                        That is, you yourself admit that purely Russian regions joined these republics.

                        Looking to what. Which purely Russian regions joined Tajikistan and Uzbekistan? To Ukraine and Belarus - yes, there was such a thing. Almost. In those regions, border areas are usually nationally mixed. That's how it happened historically.
                        Quote: Dart2027
                        I don't remember anything like that, quite the opposite.

                        What don't you remember? So that the Poles are afraid of an open confrontation with the Russian Federation? After all, Russia is a nuclear power, and for all the Polish Russophobia, the preservation instinct must be present, at least at a minimal level.
                        Quote: Dart2027
                        So if from the head, then it just turns out that they were behind everything.

                        "From the head" - I meant the RSFSR and the then Central Committee of the CPSU.
                      32. -2
                        11 February 2023 15: 53
                        Quote: Hyperion
                        Collected as best they could. In accordance with the realities of that time and ideology.
                        Exactly what with ideology.
                        Quote: Hyperion
                        To Ukraine and Belarus - yes, there was such a thing. Almost. In those regions, border areas are usually nationally mixed.
                        Especially if you remember that then there were only Russians.
                        Quote: Hyperion
                        After all, Russia is a nuclear power, and for all the Polish Russophobia, the preservation instinct must be present, at least at a minimal level.
                        If it were so, they would not have sought to get into Ukraine.
                        Quote: Hyperion
                        "From the head" - I meant the RSFSR and the then Central Committee of the CPSU.

                        And the rest of them have nothing to do with it? And, what, there were no representatives of the republics in the Central Committee?
                      33. 0
                        12 February 2023 10: 09
                        Quote: Dart2027
                        Especially if you remember that then there were only Russians.

                        Not only. There were already Belarusians and Little Russians.
                        Quote: Dart2027
                        If it were so, they would not have sought to get into Ukraine.

                        Under the guise of NVO and under the wing of NATO, why not?
                        Quote: Dart2027
                        And the rest of them have nothing to do with it?

                        In the collapse of the USSR, every single "and". But the most important ones have proportionally more responsibility.
                      34. 0
                        12 February 2023 18: 17
                        Quote: Hyperion
                        There were already Belarusians and Little Russians
                        It's like now there are Siberians and Krasnodar or Muscovites there.
                        Quote: Hyperion
                        and under the wing of NATO, why not
                        It is very difficult to believe that NATO will seriously fight for Poland.
                        Quote: Hyperion
                        But the most important ones have proportionally more responsibility
                        As well as opportunities.
                      35. 0
                        12 February 2023 18: 35
                        Quote: Dart2027
                        It's like now there are Siberians and Krasnodar or Muscovites there.

                        Not really. It is necessary to take into account the influence of Poland and Lithuania on the Ukrainian and Belarusian ethnogenesis. Yes, and the Russian ethnic group is very diverse. Due to living in a vast territory in the neighborhood with many nationalities.
                        Quote: Dart2027
                        It is very difficult to believe that NATO will seriously fight for Poland.

                        In theory, NATO should fight for NATO. That is, the entire alliance is obliged to stand up for any of its members.
                        Quote: Dart2027
                        As well as opportunities.

                        By itself.
                      36. 0
                        13 February 2023 22: 49
                        Quote: Hyperion
                        It is necessary to take into account the influence of Poland and Lithuania on the Ukrainian and Belarusian ethnogenesis.
                        That is, the fact that they were slaves of the Polish pans makes them a different people?
                        Quote: Hyperion
                        Yes, and the Russian ethnic group is very diverse.
                        That's it, only he does not stop being Russian from this.
                      37. 0
                        14 February 2023 09: 03
                        Quote: Dart2027
                        That is, the fact that they were slaves of the Polish pans makes them a different people?

                        In a sense, yes. There was a planting of a different culture and mentality.
                        Quote: Dart2027
                        That's it, only he does not stop being Russian from this.

                        "Russian" is a loose concept. Someone believes that these are mainly the descendants of the Eastern Slavs who lived on the territory of Russia, and someone that this is a "state of mind." Therefore, the same Ukrainians, depending on their views, are sometimes written down as Russians, sometimes they are discharged from them. But the fact remains: a significant part of Ukrainians at the moment considers themselves a separate people. Yes, and in the official ethnography they appear in the same way.
                      38. 0
                        14 February 2023 15: 54
                        Quote: Hyperion
                        There was a planting of a different culture and mentality.
                        This is how I see illiterate peasants who adopt a different mentality. They didn't even know the words. Like the pans themselves, who did not know that they were changing someone there.
                        Quote: Hyperion
                        But the fact remains: a significant part of Ukrainians at the moment considers themselves a separate people.
                        Thanks to Lenin.
                        Quote: Dart2027
                        The Ukrainization policy is an official and never disputed fact. As well as the fact that for its implementation it was necessary to invite Ukrainian teachers from Poland and Austria, forgiving them everything.
                      39. 0
                        15 February 2023 09: 17
                        Quote: Dart2027
                        They didn't even know the words. Like the pans themselves, who did not know that they were changing someone there.

                        Well, yes ... They also didn’t hear about radiation, which means that it didn’t exist before the discovery ...
                        Quote: Dart2027
                        The Ukrainization policy is an official and never disputed fact.

                        As well as the policy of Russification.
                        Decree of the Central Committee of the All-Union Communist Party of Bolsheviks and the Council of People's Commissars of the USSR "On the compulsory study of the Russian language in schools of national republics and regions" dated March 13, 1938

                        Thanks to Stalin
                      40. 0
                        15 February 2023 23: 01
                        Quote: Hyperion
                        They also didn’t hear about radiation, which means that it didn’t exist before the discovery ...
                        Well, who was irradiated there before physicists began to play with the atom?
                        Quote: Hyperion
                        As well as the policy of Russification.
                        Had it been carried out, there would have been no "fraternal peoples". But really, thanks to Stalin for at least somehow trying to minimize what the Russophobe Lenin did. Moreover, this study was introduced after Stalin finally dealt with the opposition.
                      41. 0
                        16 February 2023 09: 22
                        Quote: Dart2027
                        Well, who was irradiated there before physicists began to play with the atom?

                        I also wrote that knowledge / ignorance of the terms does not cancel the ongoing processes that these terms describe. And as for radiation, firstly: people who were near uranium ore deposits were irradiated; secondly, many substances and objects are radioactive. Even an ordinary person emits radiation. Small, of course, but still...
                        Many will be surprised, but we live in the midst of radiation and are exposed to radiation all our lives. The so-called radiation background is in every nook and cranny of the Earth, in every apartment and even in a bunker. The sun, like a star, emits a huge amount of radioactive radiation, and we receive it along with light. Solar flare? We get even more!

                        Quote: Dart2027
                        Had it been carried out, there would have been no "fraternal peoples".

                        Multinational politics is a delicate matter. Lenin died early, and we cannot know what plans he would eventually implement. And, at least, he was no more Russophobe than the tsarist regime. Or noneshnye figures.
                      42. -2
                        16 February 2023 16: 01
                        Quote: Hyperion
                        I also wrote that knowledge / ignorance of the terms does not cancel the ongoing processes that these terms describe.
                        These?
                        From the note of the Gomel provincial committee (provincial committee) of the RCP (b) to the Central Committee of the RCP (b) on the report of the Central Bank of the CP (b) B, October 4, 1923.
                        The note of the Central Bank of Belarus on the issue of expanding the borders of Belarus at the expense of neighboring provinces, including at the expense of Gomel, is based on a number of considerations. The main consideration is ethnographic: the predominance of the Belarusian population in the Gomel province ...
                        The Central Bank cannot, of course, turn a blind eye to this fact, that the 1920 census showed a general decrease in the Belarusian population in the Gomel province in general, putting an end to the legend of “purely Belarusian counties”, and a drop in the Belarusian population by almost half in the counties of Gomel, Rogachev and Rechitsa…
                        The 1920 census establishes ... that in the Gomel province there are two districts in relation to the question of the Belarusian population: Bykhovsky - 79,96% of Belarusians, Klimovichsky - 69,42%, Mogilev - 57,09%, Chausy - 63,36%, Cherikov - 63,96% - Belarusian region and counties Gomel - 17,06% of Belarusians, Rogachevsky - 11,35%, Rechitsky - 39,53%, Mglinsko-Pochepsky - 0,15%, Novozybkovsky - 4,10%, Surazhsky - 0,35%, Starodubsky - 0,10% - the district is not Belarusian.
                        If, however, we move from the national definition to issues of everyday life, to the question of the national will of the population, we will encounter a phenomenon that cannot be ignored, with the absence of an active national will of the population, and some even with the presence of a hostile attitude towards cultural work in the Belarusian language. There are cases when the population of a purely Belarusian region actively opposes the transformation of a school from Russian into Belarusian.
                        From the memorandum of the Vitebsk Provincial Committee of the RCP(b) to the Central Committee of the RCP(b) on the report of the Central Bank of the CP(b)B, 1923.
                        Our province, together with Mogilev, once made up one province - Belorussian (at the end of the 18th century, under Paul I). And after the division into Vitebsk and Mogilev provinces from 1802 to 1840, both provinces were called Belarusian. Therefore, the term Belarusian was preserved among the peasants. But peasants often do not understand questions about their nationality, mixing the concept of nationality and religion. Nationality is something too abstract for them. For example, in the Velizh district, one peasant, when asked about his nationality, answered: “Old Believer” ...
                        https://www.kommersant.ru/doc/3906827

                        Quote: Hyperion
                        Many will be surprised, but we live in the midst of radiation and are exposed to radiation all our lives.
                        But this is very different from the consequences of explosions and accidents at nuclear power plants.
                        Quote: Hyperion
                        Lenin died early, and we cannot know what plans he would eventually implement.
                        Judging by the beginning, they are quite specific and Russophobic.
                        Quote: Hyperion
                        And, at least, he was no more Russophobe than the tsarist regime. Or noneshnye figures.
                        So it was they who divided the Russians into several peoples and forced the Russians to consider themselves anything but Russian?
                      43. 0
                        17 February 2023 09: 26
                        Quote: Dart2027
                        These?

                        At all. You wrote that, they say, ordinary people did not know the word "mentality", therefore, they could not have it. So goes with your words.
                        Quote: Dart2027
                        But this is very different from the consequences of explosions and accidents at nuclear power plants.

                        Naturally different. But radiation is present everywhere, and existed before the discovery of this phenomenon and the assignment of a special term to it.
                        Quote: Dart2027
                        Judging by the beginning, they are quite specific and Russophobic.

                        More proletarian.
                        Quote: Dart2027
                        So it was they who divided the Russians into several peoples and forced the Russians to consider themselves anything but Russian?

                        Why is it "anyone"? Quite definitely: in the region of Belarus - by Belarusians; in the region of Ukraine - Ukrainians. And for this, I must say, there were certain historical prerequisites.
                      44. 0
                        17 February 2023 14: 40
                        Quote: Hyperion
                        ordinary people did not know the word "mentality", therefore
                        no one bothered them. Everyone just knew they were Russians.
                        Quote: Hyperion
                        But radiation is everywhere, and
                        Like a lot of small influences that we basically do not notice.
                        Quote: Hyperion
                        More proletarian.
                        All politics is done in the cities, so whoever wants to have power must seek support in the cities, and there the proletarians were the most suitable force. The peasants, on the other hand, are scattered over a large territory and it is difficult, and often simply impossible, to bring them together. Hence the beautiful words about the dictatorship of the proletariat.
                        Quote: Hyperion
                        in the region of Belarus - Belarusians; in the region of Ukraine - Ukrainians
                        It's like during perestroika, they wanted to declare those who lived in the Siberian region a separate people.
                        Both Ukraine and Belarus were purely geographical names that had nothing to do with some non-existent republics and peoples.
                      45. 0
                        18 February 2023 08: 33
                        Quote: Dart2027
                        no one bothered them. Everyone just knew they were Russians.

                        What's the difference - bothered or not? Mentality is one of the social facets of human society. As it began from the time of the caveman (or even earlier), it still exists.
                        "Russians" used to be used as now "Russians". "Subjects of the Russian Tsar"...
                        Quote: Dart2027
                        Like a lot of small influences that we basically do not notice.

                        But they are, right? To do this, you do not even need to know the terms for these influences.
                        Quote: Dart2027
                        The peasants, on the other hand, are scattered over a large territory and it is difficult, and often simply impossible, to bring them together. Hence the beautiful words about the dictatorship of the proletariat.

                        The peasants, in addition, are also less educated, for objective reasons. And "beautiful words" were not just words as they are now.
                        Quote: Dart2027
                        had nothing to do with some non-existent republics and peoples.

                        Peoples and states have the ability to appear and disappear. This process is slow and implicit. All countries once did not exist.
                      46. 0
                        18 February 2023 15: 11
                        Quote: Hyperion
                        What's the difference - bothered or not? Mentality is one of the social facets of human society.

                        Quote: Dart2027
                        If, however, we move from the national definition to issues of everyday life, to the question of the national will of the population, we will encounter a phenomenon that cannot be ignored, with the absence of an active national will of the population, and some even with the presence of a hostile attitude towards cultural work in the Belarusian language. There are cases when the population of a purely Belarusian region actively opposes the transformation of a school from Russian into Belarusian.

                        Quote: Hyperion
                        But they are, right?
                        But there is no result.
                        Quote: Hyperion
                        The peasants, in addition, are also less educated, for objective reasons.
                        The Russian proletarian of that time is yesterday's peasant. And there is nothing to say about the difference in education.
                        Quote: Hyperion
                        Peoples and states have the ability to appear and disappear.
                        For example, when they are created with the aim of dividing the people by their enemies.
                      47. 0
                        19 February 2023 10: 30
                        Quote: Dart2027
                        There are cases when the population of a purely Belarusian region actively opposes the transformation of a school from Russian into Belarusian.

                        Anything can happen. And the beetle whistles and the bull flies.
                        In principle, I am a supporter of the unification of Russia, Ukraine and Belarus into one state or something like a union. More precisely: was a supporter. Now it is meaningless, after the force impact on Ukraine. Well, let's not talk about sad things ...
                        Quote: Dart2027
                        But there is no result.

                        result what No? From the same solar radiation, you can get skin cancer. Why not a result?
                        Quote: Dart2027
                        The Russian proletarian of that time is yesterday's peasant.

                        A couple of years in production, they will teach you something.
                        Quote: Dart2027
                        For example, when they are created with the aim of dividing the people by their enemies.

                        Internet joke:
                        The Germans, when they recruited Lenin and paid him in gold, said: As soon as you take power, immediately start opening research institutes and universities, build power plants, create a combat-ready army and provide all the Soviet people with free healthcare and universal education!
                      48. 0
                        19 February 2023 13: 35
                        Quote: Hyperion
                        Anything can happen. And the beetle whistles and the bull flies.
                        And Russophobes come to power in Russia.

                        Quote: Hyperion
                        More precisely: was a supporter. Now it is meaningless, after the force impact on Ukraine.

                        Quote: Hyperion
                        More precisely: was a supporter. Now it is meaningless, after the force impact on Ukraine.
                        Yes, yes, yes ... We hear these songs regularly. But the Ukraine project is successfully closed.
                        Quote: Hyperion
                        As you take power, immediately start opening research institutes and universities, build power plants, create a combat-ready army
                        Any government would do this, because without all of the above it will simply be destroyed by its neighbors. The same thing was done in all countries, for example, the Germans, who are mentioned here, did the same thing, even under the Kaisers. So there is nothing new here. And, by the way, you didn’t figure out why it was necessary to pursue a Russophobic policy for the construction of all this.
                        Quote: Hyperion
                        free medicine
                        That's just for the "white people" medicine was separate. I remember what the excitement was when Yeltsin came to a regular clinic for PR.
                        Quote: Hyperion
                        A couple of years in production, something
                        Something in the sense of what is needed for production and nothing else.
                        Quote: Hyperion
                        From the same solar radiation, you can get skin cancer.
                        If you try, you can kill yourself with anything. But the Darwin Prize is a specific issue.
                      49. 0
                        20 February 2023 09: 23
                        Quote: Dart2027
                        And Russophobes come to power in Russia.

                        Looking around, I can't help but agree...
                        Quote: Dart2027
                        But the Ukraine project is successfully closed.

                        Successfully? I don't think so. The project with grief in half may be closed, but nothing good will happen in return.
                        Quote: Dart2027
                        Any government would do this, because without all of the above it will simply be destroyed by its neighbors.

                        Well, yes ... That is exactly what happens in modern Russia.
                        Quote: Dart2027
                        And, by the way, you didn’t figure out why it was necessary to pursue a Russophobic policy for the construction of all this.

                        Why should I invent something for the straw man you invented? Brotherhood of workers and no others. And the fact that the Russians made a greater contribution to the development of the country, so he is the "big brother" with the corresponding responsibility.
                        Quote: Dart2027
                        That's just for the "white people" medicine was separate. I remember what the excitement was when Yeltsin came to a regular clinic for PR.

                        But any kind of "bohemia" did not go abroad for treatment as if it were their own home. Like now. And what does Yeltsin have to do with it? Under him, capitalism was already flourishing.
                        Quote: Dart2027
                        Something in the sense of what is needed for production and nothing else.

                        This is already a difference from peasant education. It is not for nothing that the sailors who served on ships and who, on duty, dealt with various mechanisms were the most conscious revolutionaries.
                        Quote: Dart2027
                        If you try, you can kill yourself with anything. But the Darwin Prize is a specific issue.

                        And what about Darwin? It was about the existence of phenomena, regardless of whether science has discovered this phenomenon or not yet.
                      50. 0
                        20 February 2023 10: 49
                        Quote: Hyperion
                        looking around
                        I see how they rake up what the predecessors did.
                        Quote: Hyperion
                        The project with grief in half may be closed, but nothing good will happen in return.
                        Looking for someone. As one communist deputy said there? "Patriotism is bad for a revolution."
                        Quote: Hyperion
                        Why should I invent something for the straw man you invented?
                        Are you talking about Lenin's ideas?
                        Quote: Hyperion
                        Brotherhood of workers and no others.
                        It remains to see it in reality.
                        Quote: Hyperion
                        But any kind of "bohemia" did not go abroad for treatment as if it were their own home.
                        Well, you don't have to look for your doctor.
                        Quote: Hyperion
                        And what does Yeltsin have to do with it? Under him, capitalism was already flourishing.
                        Quote: Dart2027
                        That's just for the "white people" medicine was separate.

                        Quote: Hyperion
                        This is already a difference from peasant education.
                        In a political sense? It's like the saying about the shoemaker and the pie maker.
                        Quote: Hyperion
                        It is not for nothing that the sailors who served on ships and who, on duty, dealt with various mechanisms were the most conscious revolutionaries.
                        Are you talking about the Kronstadt rebellion?
                        Quote: Hyperion
                        about the existence of phenomena
                        which go as a kind of background and do not affect life.
                      51. 0
                        21 February 2023 09: 22
                        Quote: Dart2027
                        I see how they rake up what the predecessors did.

                        So raked that the Russian demographics in the red. Minus industry, education and medicine. Fucking rakes... Looters.
                        Quote: Dart2027
                        As one communist deputy said there? "Patriotism is bad for a revolution."

                        I don't know what kind of communist deputy there is, but Saltykov-Shchedrin wrote: "false patriotism as a cover for the shameless exploitation of the masses and all sorts of forms of robbery of the fatherland."
                        Quote: Dart2027
                        Are you talking about Lenin's ideas?

                        I'm talking about the alleged Russophobia of Lenin.
                        Quote: Dart2027
                        That's just for the "white people" medicine was separate.

                        By itself. Leaders of society - the best medicine. The human factor, after all. But the basic one, for the common people, was quite tolerable.
                        Quote: Dart2027
                        In a political sense?

                        In the political and dialectical.
                        Quote: Dart2027
                        Are you talking about the Kronstadt rebellion?

                        I am in general. Rebellion is a kind of exception that proves the rule.
                        Quote: Dart2027
                        which go as a kind of background and do not affect life.

                        How else do they influence. Everything in the world is interconnected. What, interestingly, goes like "a certain background" and does not affect your life? Gravity? Microbiota? Solar flares? In essence, life is a constant impact of various factors on the body and its response to them.
                      52. -2
                        21 February 2023 15: 04
                        Quote: Hyperion
                        So raked that the Russian demographics in the red.
                        The problem of all developed countries, an American professor wrote well about this 20 years ago in his book "Death of the West".
                        Quote: Hyperion
                        Minus industry, education and medicine.
                        An old song, but who is making rockets there now?
                        Quote: Hyperion
                        I'm talking about the alleged Russophobia of Lenin.
                        The word is redundant.
                        Quote: Hyperion
                        Leaders of society - the best medicine. The human factor, after all.
                        That is, the basic postulate of the equality of all in the USSR is greatly exaggerated. And medicine is still there.
                        Quote: Hyperion
                        In the political and dialectical.
                        Well, what kind of political education did they receive?
                        Quote: Hyperion
                        I am in general.
                        In general, they spent the entire war sitting, doing practically nothing and decomposing. Hence all the "revolutionary" that was later knocked out of them when the new government stopped being almondy.
                        Quote: Hyperion
                        Everything in the world is interconnected.
                        For example, a gust of wind that moved the hair "very strongly affects."
                      53. 0
                        21 February 2023 15: 46
                        Quote: Dart2027
                        The problem of all developed countries

                        But does Russia have "its own special way"? Without LGBT and other lack of spirituality. The West is understandable, it is "decaying", but in Russia are the traditional values ​​that it like defends? In fact, it turns out that there is no difference in the end.
                        Quote: Dart2027
                        An old song, but who is making rockets there now?

                        And who buys in Iran? And what about the problems with the filling of these missiles? And the industry is not characterized by missiles alone. We have to remove the T-62 from conservation, since even the T-90 was not riveted in digestible quantities.
                        Quote: Dart2027
                        The word is redundant.

                        And when in Russia, in what historical period, did "Russophilia" flourish? Maybe in the days of serfdom or even when? Well, not at the moment..
                        Quote: Dart2027
                        That is, the basic postulate of the equality of all in the USSR is greatly exaggerated.

                        Absolute equality is a utopia. But there was no such stratification between the rich and the poor as there was now.
                        Quote: Dart2027
                        And medicine is still there.

                        And it is so "high-quality" that any more or less famous singer or artist is treated abroad.
                        Quote: Dart2027
                        Well, what kind of political education did they receive?

                        The Bolshevik circles carried out the work.
                        Quote: Dart2027
                        For example, a gust of wind that moved the hair "very strongly affects."

                        And if a gust of wind stirred a brick from a building and it fell on its head? Or a gust of wind brought infection into the respiratory tract from a passing patient? Or a person, straightening his hair from a gust of wind, did not notice the banana peel and - "fell, woke up, gypsum"? The reasons may be insignificant, at first glance, but the consequences of them ...
                      54. 0
                        22 February 2023 11: 31
                        Quote: Hyperion
                        But does Russia have "its own special way"? Without LGBT and other lack of spirituality.
                        The fertility problems started long before they went crazy over all this nonsense.
                        Quote: Hyperion
                        And who buys in Iran?
                        And who says it? Yes, they bought UAVs, though they themselves have already begun to produce them, but about missiles this is from the same opera that they ran out back in March. By the way, did you also buy Su-57s somewhere?
                        Quote: Hyperion
                        And what about the problems with the filling of these missiles?
                        Do they have problems?
                        Quote: Hyperion
                        We have to remove the T-62 from conservation
                        Putting reservists in the T-90 is not a good idea, but hundreds of them are riveted a year.
                        Quote: Hyperion
                        And it is so "high-quality" that any more or less famous singer or artist is treated abroad.
                        What Soviet citizens dreamed about. I remember.
                        Quote: Hyperion
                        But there was no such stratification between the rich and the poor as there was now.
                        And so the communist elites demolished it.
                        Quote: Hyperion
                        The Bolshevik circles carried out the work.
                        That is, the point is not that they were much more educated, but that they were more actively processed.
                        Quote: Hyperion
                        And if a gust of wind stirred a brick from a building and it fell on its head?
                        Never seen the wind blow away the bricks. And all of the above are not minor reasons.
                      55. 0
                        22 February 2023 13: 50
                        Quote: Dart2027
                        The fertility problems started long before they went crazy over all this nonsense.

                        But, it turns out that this does not affect the birth rate? And why is Russia the leader in abortions in Europe? And there are many orphans too. Divorce processes, again, almost under 80%.
                        Quote: Dart2027
                        UAV, yes, they bought it, though they themselves have already begun to produce

                        https://lenta.ru/news/2022/10/16/iran_rus/
                        Quote: Dart2027
                        By the way, did you buy the Su-57 somewhere?

                        And why is there a mention of single copies of parade aircraft? And just do not write that they are used in SVO. Apart from the words from the General Staff, there is no evidence of this.
                        Quote: Dart2027
                        Putting reservists in the T-90 is not a good idea, but hundreds of them are riveted a year.

                        What hundreds per year? Before the SVO there were 350 in service and 200 in reserve. Who will make them from scratch now, when can the T-62 be reactivated? And where can I get normal modern optics? If only by parallel import. Hundreds a year...
                        And the reservists, in half a year - a year, could be learned on the T-90. If they were. We have to let the remnants of the former luxury from the "Russophobe communists" into battle ...
                        Quote: Dart2027
                        And so the communist elites demolished it.

                        The elites were already rotten by that time.
                        Quote: Dart2027
                        Never seen the wind blow away the bricks. And all of the above are not minor reasons.

                        https://pikabu.ru/story/sudba_ili_sluchaynost_zhenshchine_na_golovu_upal_kirpich_6723072
                        The reason was a gust of wind. Everything else is a consequence. Look up "butterfly effect". Learn something new about our world.
                      56. -1
                        23 February 2023 11: 00
                        Quote: Hyperion
                        But, it turns out that this does not affect the birth rate?
                        It does, but it's not just that. The same China, which 20 years ago limited the birth rate, is already also facing a lack of it.
                        Quote: Hyperion
                        https://lenta.ru/news/2022/10/16/iran_rus/
                        According to American reporters. Uh-huh, refer to "Censor" as well. If there were any fragments of Korean missiles, they would have been shown everywhere they could for a long time.
                        Quote: Hyperion
                        And just do not write that they are used in SVO. Apart from the words from the General Staff, there is no evidence of this.
                        The old Soviet whining about everyone lying to us. Armats are also run in there. Is there any other information? Well, show me, only not American.
                        Quote: Hyperion
                        Before the SVO there were 350 in service and 200 in reserve.
                        We do not know about the fact that the plant switched to round-the-clock work?
                        Quote: Hyperion
                        Accounts for the remnants of former luxury
                        which must be put somewhere, otherwise it is pointless to store it. And again, something is not heard about their participation in the offensive, most likely they are simply used in defense, like ordinary self-propelled guns.
                        Quote: Hyperion
                        The elites were already rotten by that time.
                        And whose problem is this? How miserable was the system of government in the USSR, that only traitors were in power there.
                        Quote: Hyperion
                        The reason was a gust of wind.

                        presumably from a gust of wind
                        I mean no one understood why.
                      57. 0
                        23 February 2023 13: 48
                        Quote: Dart2027
                        The same China that restricted births 20 years ago

                        But in Russia they were not limited. Why the example of China?
                        Quote: Dart2027
                        According to American reporters.

                        Can you expect such confessions from the Russian media?
                        Quote: Dart2027
                        If there were any wreckage of Korean missiles

                        What does Korean missiles have to do with it?
                        Quote: Dart2027
                        The old Soviet whining about everyone lying to us.

                        You know better. You remember how Soviet citizens dreamed of being treated abroad. I don't remember and never heard of it.
                        Quote: Dart2027
                        Armats are also run in there. Is there any other information? ou show

                        You said the same about the Su-57. You and prove. And even you will not argue that the number of these aircraft - the cat cried.
                        Quote: Dart2027
                        We do not know about the fact that the plant switched to round-the-clock work?

                        "Kronstadt", which Orions makes, also switched to three shifts, but something has not been heard about him since then. And as for hundreds of T-90s a year, they don’t exist yet. And not the fact that they will. So far, only wonderful plans ...
                        Quote: Dart2027
                        most likely they are simply used in defense, like ordinary self-propelled guns.

                        Self-propelled guns and tanks are two different things. Russia has a huge number of self-propelled guns. Why even use tanks for this? And why is there not a sufficient number of modern tanks, if in your opinion: we have order with industry, at least in the military-industrial complex?
                        Quote: Dart2027
                        How miserable was the system of government in the USSR, that only traitors were in power there.

                        It's good that now "only patriots" are in power.
                        Quote: Dart2027
                        I mean no one understood why.

                        Do you even understand something about the butterfly effect? If you don't like bricks, think about icicles.
                      58. 0
                        23 February 2023 15: 16
                        Quote: Hyperion
                        But in Russia they were not limited. Why the example of China?

                        Quote: Dart2027
                        So raked that the Russian demographics in the red.
                        The problem of all developed countries, an American professor wrote well about this 20 years ago in his book "Death of the West".

                        Quote: Hyperion
                        What does Korean missiles have to do with it?
                        Described, not Korean, but Iranian.
                        Quote: Hyperion
                        You remember how Soviet citizens dreamed of being treated abroad. I don't remember and never heard of it.
                        Apparently they didn’t live in the USSR, but I remember very well comparisons of how they are treated there and here.
                        Quote: Hyperion
                        "Kronstadt", which Orions does

                        A great contribution to the information support of the artillerymen of the Russian army was made by the more long-range strike and reconnaissance drone "Orion" (in the Russian Aerospace Forces it is called "Pacer"). As you know, one of the copies of this UAV started performing tasks on the western approaches to Kherson two days earlier. During the very first air raid, Orion destroyed at least two armored vehicles of the Armed Forces of Ukraine with high-precision strikes by X-UAV multi-purpose missiles.
                        Read more: https://eadaily.com/ru/news/2022/10/21/boevoy-debyut-bpla-inohodec-pod-hersonom-i-razgrom-vsu
                        Quote: Hyperion
                        Russia has a huge number of self-propelled guns. Why even use tanks for this?
                        Quote: Dart2027
                        which must be put somewhere, otherwise it is pointless to store
                        As a reinforcement of motorized riflemen in defense, they will do fine, especially since their armor is much more serious than that of self-propelled guns.
                        Quote: Hyperion
                        It's good that now "only patriots" are in power.
                        That is, there are no objections.
                        Quote: Hyperion
                        Do you even understand something about the butterfly effect?
                        Is it that when a Russophobe came to power, a handful of nationalists who dreamed of their own specific principality and whom no one had paid any attention to before received powerful support (after all, someone had to lay a brick)?
                      59. 0
                        23 February 2023 16: 14
                        Quote: Dart2027
                        The problem of all developed countries

                        And what side is Russia here? In Russia, the reason for low demographics is the high cost of raising a child with low incomes. In the West, the reason is that "they want to live for themselves."
                        Quote: Dart2027
                        Apparently they didn’t live in the USSR, but I remember very well

                        Personal experience is not proof.
                        Quote: Dart2027
                        As you know, one of the copies of this UAV has begun to perform tasks

                        There is no talk of mass character, therefore. One there, one there. And they inflated the topic of expanding production, as if they intended to cover the entire sky of Ukraine from the Sun with the wings of Orions. Yes, even about the Lancets and then there is more news.
                        Quote: Dart2027
                        especially since their armor is much more serious than that of self-propelled guns.

                        For self-propelled guns, armor is not the main thing. The main range, accuracy, and the ability to shoot from closed positions. And who and how far can you hit from a tank as a self-propelled gun?
                        Quote: Dart2027
                        That is, there are no objections.

                        What about the problems in the Central Committee of the CPSU? So they were not, objections.
                        Quote: Dart2027
                        This is the fact that when a Russophobe came to power, a handful of nationalists who dream of their own specific principality and whom no one paid attention to before received powerful support

                        Who is talking about what ...
                        But what about the creation of the UNR already in November 17, when the Bolsheviks had yet to win in the Civil War? After the Civil War, I had to make concessions and accept Ukraine as a Soviet republic.
                        On December 4 (17) the All-Ukrainian Congress of Soviets opened in Kyiv. The Bolsheviks still had hope for a peaceful transfer of power into their hands through a vote of no confidence in the Central Rada. However, the national leaders called in advance on the Ukrainian army and peasant organizations to send everyone to the congress, regardless of the norms of representation established by the Bolsheviks. The 125 Bolsheviks were in an absolute minority - they were not allowed into the presidium, their orators were booed or not allowed to speak at all.

                        Here is "powerful support" for you... The rhetorical question remains: could the young Soviet authorities then act more harshly and include the UNR in the RSFSR?
                      60. 0
                        24 February 2023 13: 06
                        Quote: Hyperion
                        In Russia, the reason for low demographics is the high cost of raising a child with low incomes. In the West, the reason is that "they want to live for themselves."
                        That is, you say that in countries in which no communists were allowed to power, ALL people live richly for themselves?
                        Quote: Hyperion
                        Personal experience is not proof.
                        And then how do you know that this is not so?
                        Quote: Hyperion
                        There is no talk of mass character, therefore.
                        Where is it said? There are examples that they are in the army, and how many - well, show your numbers, we'll see.
                        Quote: Hyperion
                        And who and how far can you hit from a tank as a self-propelled gun?
                        Being close to the front line in terms of targets in the interests of the platoon-company.
                        Quote: Hyperion
                        What about the problems in the Central Committee of the CPSU?

                        Quote: Dart2027
                        How miserable was the system of government in the USSR, that only traitors were in power there.

                        Quote: Hyperion
                        But what about the creation of the UNR already in November 17, when the Bolsheviks had yet to win in the Civil War?
                        At that time, there were so many "republics" on the territory of the same Ukraine that contemporaries got confused in them and what happened to them? For some reason, the Bolsheviks did not stand on ceremony with them.
                        Quote: Hyperion
                        However, national leaders called on the Ukrainian army and peasant organizations in advance
                        And what kind of support did they enjoy among the people? They gathered THEIR comrades for their Sabbath. If everything was so wonderful, then why did they even enter some kind of USSR?
                        Quote: Hyperion
                        A rhetorical question remains: could the young Soviet government then act more harshly and include the UNR in the RSFSR?
                        All the more rhetorical, because in fact this is exactly what happened. When the USSR was created, the system of a single state with autonomies was adopted and it was not accepted, only because Lenin, who at first did not participate in the process due to illness, upon learning about it, immediately forgot about the illness and rushed to defend the interests of the nationalists.
                      61. 0
                        24 February 2023 18: 44
                        Quote: Dart2027
                        That is, you say that in countries in which no communists were allowed to power, ALL people live richly for themselves?

                        Not all, but most. The so-called "middle class", which in Russia, according to Putin, starts at the income level of 17 rubles. And the communists, among other things, influenced the standard of living in Western countries. By the threat of the onset of revolution with too harsh exploitation in a capitalist society.
                        Quote: Dart2027
                        And then how do you know that this is not so?

                        From there, that I have not seen or read anything like this anywhere. I hear from you for the first time. If so, please provide a link to the topic.
                        Quote: Dart2027
                        Where is that said?

                        News often slips that Iran has purchased another batch of UAVs. And not only "Geranium". It is planned to purchase a hundred drones from China, with the subsequent possible localization of their production. And there is little news about Orion. At VO, for example, I haven’t met recently. Maybe I didn’t notice ... or maybe there’s nothing to write about.
                        Quote: Dart2027
                        Being close to the front line in terms of targets in the interests of the platoon-company.

                        And probably the connection does not allow to request specialized art, or poor interaction in the units?
                        Quote: Dart2027
                        For some reason, the Bolsheviks did not stand on ceremony with them.

                        With whom they were able to cope at that moment, they did not stand on ceremony. And with whom it was undesirable to conflict - I had to look for compromises.
                        Quote: Dart2027
                        If everything was so wonderful, then why did they even enter some kind of USSR?

                        Yes, there was no "wonderful" there. Each participant acted according to the situation. All parties bargained and made concessions in accordance with their capabilities. The Bolsheviks did not then have such strength to break everyone on the knee.
                        Quote: Dart2027
                        Lenin, who at first did not participate in the process due to illness, having learned about this, immediately forgot about the illness and rushed to defend the interests of the nationalists.

                        Where did you get this information from, I wonder?
                      62. -2
                        25 February 2023 11: 06
                        Quote: Hyperion
                        Not all, but most. The so-called "middle class"
                        The middle class is middle class because you can't call it rich.
                        Quote: Hyperion
                        And the communists, among other things, influenced the standard of living in Western countries.
                        So the USSR is long gone.
                        Quote: Hyperion
                        From there, that I have not seen or read anything like this anywhere.
                        That is, another admirer of the USSR, who did not see him in the eye. It was, I remember.
                        Quote: Hyperion
                        News often slips that Iran has purchased another batch of UAVs.
                        So I don't deny it. Only there they buy extremely simple kamikaze, and Orion is a different class. The same with China. And in the news we write about the final result, but they usually don’t do a special analysis (what, how).
                        Quote: Hyperion
                        And request specialized art
                        while doing other tasks. There is regiment-level artillery, there is company-level artillery, and if it is possible to solve the problem with cheaper means, then they do it.
                        Quote: Hyperion
                        With whom they were able to cope at that moment, they did not stand on ceremony. And with whom it was undesirable to conflict - I had to look for compromises.
                        I have already given the example of Belarus.
                        Quote: Hyperion
                        Where did you get this information from, I wonder?

                        For example, from Lenin himself. Have you read his articles on autonomy?
                        On September 23, 1922, the General Secretary of the Central Committee of the All-Union Communist Party of Bolsheviks, Joseph Stalin, presented a project, autonomization provided for the complete absorption of these republics of the RSFSR and without any independence. According to Stalin's plan, no union republics were to exist. It was assumed that they would become part of Russia (RSFSR) as subjects of the Federation on a par with other autonomous republics.
                      63. 0
                        25 February 2023 12: 07
                        Quote: Dart2027
                        The middle class is middle class because you can't call it rich.

                        Everything is relative. Yes, and about the "rich" you wrote this for some reason. For some reason, they attributed to me a left-wing statement about ALL the people. To "life for yourself" in the West, it is not necessary to be rich. Middle class is fine.
                        Quote: Dart2027
                        So the USSR is long gone.

                        That is why the Western capitalists launched an attack on the rights of citizens. In France for example.
                        Quote: Dart2027
                        That is, another admirer of the USSR, who did not see him in the eye. It was, I remember.

                        Saw. But I don't see the point in discussing this. Your word against mine. So you can argue until you're blue in the face.
                        Quote: Dart2027
                        And in the news we write about the final result, but they usually don’t do a special analysis (what, how).

                        Which is strange. Isn't it logical to make the news focus on domestic developments, showing that not everyone has overslept yet?
                        Quote: Dart2027
                        if it is possible to solve the problem by cheaper means, then they do it.

                        There is a saying: expensive and cute, cheap and rotten. Although what else can we expect from the modern military-industrial complex?
                        Quote: Dart2027
                        There is regiment level artillery, there is company level

                        Company level? Either I don’t know something, or you invented a new word in military affairs ...
                        Quote: Dart2027
                        Joseph Stalin presented a project, autonomization provided for the complete absorption of these republics by the RSFSR and without any independence.

                        Desires do not always match reality.
                      64. -1
                        26 February 2023 07: 48
                        Quote: Hyperion
                        To "life for yourself" in the West, it is not necessary to be rich. Middle class is fine.

                        Quote: Hyperion
                        That is why the Western capitalists launched an attack on the rights of citizens. In France for example.
                        You already decide, otherwise it turns out somehow contradictory.
                        Quote: Hyperion
                        Saw. But I don't see the point in discussing this.
                        Then what do you have to say, for example, about Orders? Or about how they stood in lines behind an ordinary wall for years?
                        Quote: Hyperion
                        Isn't it logical to make the news focus on domestic developments, showing that not everyone has overslept yet?
                        Their task is information about the progress of the database, and they give it. They hardly set the task of describing in detail where which equipment is used, and it’s not the best decision to inform the enemy about this.
                        Quote: Hyperion
                        There is a saying: expensive and cute, cheap and rotten.

                        And there is a saying "the spool is small and expensive."
                        Quote: Hyperion
                        Company level? Either I don’t know something, or you have invented a new word in military affairs.
                        Yes, there is nothing new here. A motorized rifle company includes an infantry fighting vehicle or an armored personnel carrier. The BMP-3 is armed with a 100-mm cannon - that's the company artillery. Only her armor is not very good, and the T-62 is quite capable of replacing it and at the same time has much greater survivability. Actually, it was necessary to replace all infantry fighting vehicles with obsolete tanks.
                        Quote: Hyperion
                        Desires do not always match reality.

                        He could not pass Lenin.
                      65. 0
                        26 February 2023 09: 21
                        Quote: Dart2027
                        You already decide, otherwise it turns out somehow contradictory.

                        No contradictions. Until relatively recently, the standard of living in the West was not bad. Now, in view of the absence of a competing paradigm of society, the capitalists have gone on a rampage.
                        Quote: Dart2027
                        Or about how they stood in lines behind an ordinary wall for years?

                        This became commonplace in the last years of the USSR. When everything went downhill.
                        Quote: Dart2027
                        and not the best solution to inform the enemy about this.

                        The enemy, as it were, may be more aware than ordinary citizens of the Russian Federation. To help him - American intelligence systems.
                        Quote: Dart2027
                        And there is a saying "the spool is small and expensive."

                        And there is a "small bug, yes ...". But the spool is something of value. This can be said, for example, about the "Krasnopol" - they say, the number of these shells is limited, but the effectiveness is at its best. And the re-opened T-62s are not a spool. It's more like - "for lack of fish and cancer - fish."
                        Quote: Dart2027
                        A motorized rifle company includes an infantry fighting vehicle or an armored personnel carrier. The BMP-3 is armed with a 100-mm cannon - that's the company artillery.

                        BMP-3 does not have the ability to conduct all modes of artillery fire. Like the T-62. Only direct fire, and at best, "shoot somewhere in the direction of the enemy", a la "work by NURSs from a pitch-up."
                        A full-fledged art is attached to a battalion or the same notorious BTG.
                        Quote: Dart2027
                        He could not pass Lenin.

                        Stalin spoke quite positively about Lenin.
                      66. -2
                        27 February 2023 07: 03
                        Quote: Hyperion
                        No contradictions. Until relatively recently, the standard of living in the West was not bad.
                        Tsgu. It always amuses me when the communists begin to say that Russia, in which there was Soviet power for 70 years, lives worse than the country in which it did not exist at all. I remember the mantras that the majority live there just fine from perestroika, but all this is greatly exaggerated, it’s just that our intelligentsia has always looked only at rich neighborhoods.
                        Quote: Hyperion
                        This became commonplace in the last years of the USSR.
                        The last ones are from the 70s?
                        Quote: Hyperion
                        The enemy, as it were, may be more aware than ordinary citizens of the Russian Federation. To help him - American intelligence systems.
                        To help. Only there are still rules of secrecy that no one has canceled. Even if, in fact, the information has lost its meaning, but belongs to the list of classified, it is still forbidden to disclose it.
                        Quote: Hyperion
                        And there is a "small bug, yes ...". But the spool is something valuable.

                        This is valuable - a self-propelled gun.
                        Quote: Hyperion
                        BMP-3 does not have the ability to conduct all modes of artillery fire. Like the T-62.
                        Doesn't have. But to support units at the platoon / company level, it will do. There is no task here of delivering strikes to some depth of the enemy’s defense - fire support for infantry at the forefront.
                        Quote: Hyperion
                        Stalin spoke quite positively about Lenin.
                        Responded. But Lenin had died by that time and his figure was canonized. And if he lived, there could be a lot here.
                      67. 0
                        27 February 2023 14: 19
                        Quote: Dart2027
                        Tsgu. It always amuses me when the communists begin to say that Russia, in which there was Soviet power for 70 years, lives worse than the country in which it did not exist at all.

                        I'm not a communist at all. More like "sympathetic". And rather the idea itself than the performers. For 70 years there was Soviet power, but at different stages it was different. Yes, and there is no Soviet power for 30 years. And all these 30 years, "effective managers" ate up and plundered the legacy of their predecessors. And they did almost nothing of their own.
                        Quote: Dart2027
                        The last ones are from the 70s?

                        Plus or minus.
                        Quote: Dart2027
                        Even if, in fact, the information has lost its meaning, but belongs to the list of classified, it is still forbidden to disclose it.

                        Well, yes ... Soon they will not disclose anything at all. In addition to virtual victories, breakthroughs and jerks, of course.
                        Quote: Dart2027
                        fire support for infantry at the forefront.

                        That's how tanks do it best. Preferably modern. Well, nothing ... as soon as they start producing hundreds of T-90s, then things will go smoothly ... In the meantime, let the soldiers say thank you that they are not handing over the T-55.
                        Quote: Dart2027
                        And if he lived, there could be a lot here.

                        Well, guess what...
                        PS There, someone gave you a couple of minuses. It's not me, if anything.
                      68. -1
                        27 February 2023 14: 28
                        Quote: Hyperion
                        PS There, someone gave you a couple of minuses. It's not me, if anything.

                        I stuck. Because he is a White Guard bastard.
                      69. 0
                        28 February 2023 10: 35
                        Quote: Hyperion
                        And all these 30 years, "effective managers" ate up and plundered the legacy of their predecessors. And they did almost nothing of their own.
                        That's not necessary. The work is on.
                        Quote: Hyperion
                        Well, yes ... Soon they will not disclose anything at all.
                        You just never dealt with those who work in this area. Everything here is strictly according to the charter - it is written that such and such information should be stamped "s" or "ss", which means it is, and everything else does not matter.
                        Quote: Hyperion
                        That's how tanks do it best.
                        Uh-huh, only in the same USSR the T-62s were used to the very end. A new tank is an expensive thing, which is problematic to give to each company, but it is already possible to use an already outdated one after modernization, because it is much cheaper.
                        Quote: Hyperion
                        Well, guess what...
                        After the revolution almost always begins a squabble for power. This is our nature and there is nothing we can do about it. Actually, this was also the case in the USSR - if Stalin had not eliminated competitors, then one of them would have done the same.
                      70. 0
                        28 February 2023 19: 29
                        Quote: Dart2027
                        That's not necessary. The work is on.

                        If you mean work on finishing off Russia, then yes, it is. Full swing. Although the fault is not only the tops. The degrading lower classes (part) also contribute.
                        Quote: Dart2027
                        Everything here is strictly according to the charter - it is written that such and such information should be stamped "s" or "ss", which means it is, and everything else does not matter.

                        Why keep secret the results of the work of domestic, far from new Orion-type UAVs? What's the point of this? Only if the results are not enough or they do not meet expectations.
                        Quote: Dart2027
                        Uh-huh, only in the same USSR the T-62s were used to the very end.

                        Then he was 30 years younger actually. And during this time, a lot of things have changed in military science. In the West, at least.
                        Quote: Dart2027
                        After the revolution almost always begins a squabble for power.

                        Stalin did not eliminate Lenin. And to argue "if only, if only" is nonsense.
                      71. 0
                        1 March 2023 09: 45
                        Quote: Hyperion
                        If you mean work on finishing off Russia, then yes, it is. Full swing.
                        Which is to eliminate the consequences of where the USSR went?
                        Quote: Hyperion
                        Why keep secret the results of the work of domestic, far from new Orion-type UAVs? What's the point of this?
                        Because there are rules. And if something is classified, then it is oh so difficult to declassify.
                        Quote: Hyperion
                        Then he was 30 years younger actually.
                        So it is not set as is. https://rg.ru/2022/10/13/modernizirovannye-t-62-poluchat-novye-sredstva-obnaruzheniia-i-zashchity.html
                        Quote: Hyperion
                        Stalin did not eliminate Lenin. And to argue "if only, if only" is nonsense.
                        After a revolution, there is always a struggle for power. That is life. Well, the facts are that it was Lenin who pushed through this nonsense with the republics.
                      72. 0
                        1 March 2023 11: 50
                        Quote: Dart2027
                        Which is to eliminate the consequences of where the USSR went?

                        As if this "liquidation" did not give rise to even more problems. And in general - Ukraine has never been so "Ukrainian" in its history. The USSR never dreamed of.
                        Quote: Dart2027
                        And if something is classified, then it is oh so difficult to declassify.

                        If everything is secret, then an information vacuum will arise, which will be filled by other sources.
                        Quote: Dart2027
                        So it is not set as is.

                        As the Bible says, "No one pours new wine into old wineskins." The gun is currently rather weak for a tank. As well as a limited range of shells. What prevents the modernization of at least the T-72? There are quite a decent number of them. If they don't lie.
                        Quote: Dart2027
                        Well, the facts are that it was Lenin who pushed through this nonsense with the republics.

                        Perhaps he had no other choice.
                      73. 0
                        2 March 2023 14: 42
                        Quote: Hyperion
                        As if this "liquidation" did not give rise to even more problems.
                        More than bells and whistles then no one will create them.
                        Quote: Hyperion
                        Ukraine has never been so "Ukrainian" in its history.
                        And that's why people are being dragged to the military registration and enlistment offices by force?
                        Quote: Hyperion
                        If everything is secret, then there will be an information vacuum
                        The law is the law, there is always a double-edged sword.
                        Quote: Hyperion
                        The gun is currently rather weak for a tank. As well as a limited range of shells.
                        If it is used as an infantry fighting vehicle, then it is sufficient. There is 100 mm and no one complains.
                        Quote: Hyperion
                        What prevents the modernization of at least the T-72?
                        They are being upgraded exactly as tanks for regulars, not mobiles.
                        Quote: Hyperion
                        Perhaps he had no other choice.
                        Already it was - all he needed was to calmly be treated and not interfere.
                      74. 0
                        2 March 2023 19: 05
                        Quote: Dart2027
                        More than bells and whistles then no one will create them.

                        Yes, you are an optimist, as I see it.
                        Quote: Dart2027
                        And that's why people are being dragged to the military registration and enlistment offices by force?

                        Someone is being dragged, someone is walking. In the LDNR, there were also cases of forcible dragging into the military registration and enlistment office. Not all people are ready to fight/die. Even for the brightest ideas. Otherwise, why would penal battalions in the Red Army? Moreover, harm to the enemy can be done without being on the battlefield.
                        Quote: Dart2027
                        The law is the law, there is always a double-edged sword.

                        A stick that will shoot sooner or later.
                        Quote: Dart2027
                        If it is used as an infantry fighting vehicle, then it is sufficient.

                        The BMP has its own tasks, the tank has its own.
                        Quote: Dart2027
                        They are being upgraded exactly as tanks for regulars, not mobiles.

                        How much time has passed. Mobiki already, in theory, should be at the level of regulars.
                        Quote: Dart2027
                        Already it was - all he needed was to calmly be treated and not interfere.

                        Retrospectively, it is easy to reason.
                      75. 0
                        3 March 2023 13: 34
                        Quote: Hyperion
                        Yes, you are an optimist, as I see it.
                        That is the reality.
                        Quote: Hyperion
                        Someone is being dragged, someone is walking. In the LDNR, there were also cases of forcible dragging into the military registration and enlistment office.
                        Here are just the relevant videos for some reason from there.
                        Quote: Hyperion
                        The BMP has its own tasks, the tank has its own.
                        From them, normal BMPs will turn out.
                        Quote: Hyperion
                        Mobiki already, in theory, should be at the level of regulars.
                        Basically, regular and volunteer units will be used for the offensive.
                        Quote: Hyperion
                        Retrospectively, it is easy to reason.
                        This is a fact about which he himself wrote.
                      76. 0
                        3 March 2023 15: 21
                        Quote: Dart2027
                        That is the reality.

                        This is jingoistic reality. She has little in common with the real one.
                        Quote: Dart2027
                        Here are just the relevant videos for some reason from there.

                        Who, then, has been resisting the RF Armed Forces for a year now? Cowards, drug addicts, deserters, mercenaries?
                        Quote: Dart2027
                        From them, normal BMPs will turn out.

                        Normal infantry fighting vehicles for the 21st century are Kurganets and T-15s, which only ride in parades.
                        Quote: Dart2027
                        Basically, regular and volunteer units will be used for the offensive.

                        Is this being reported to you from the General Staff?
                        Quote: Dart2027
                        This is a fact about which he himself wrote.

                        But where exactly? Could you tell?
                      77. 0
                        4 March 2023 12: 40
                        Quote: Hyperion
                        This is jingoistic reality. She has little in common with the real one.
                        First, the people were divided into several parts. Then they tried to build a utopia, Then for a while they tried to figure out what to do with it. And they ended up with such a shame that world history simply did not know.

                        Quote: Hyperion
                        Who, then, has been resisting the RF Armed Forces for a year now?
                        Do you have anything to say about the video? Here they are driven.
                        Quote: Hyperion
                        Is this being reported to you from the General Staff?
                        Elementary logic - they are better trained and losses in them are less painful.
                        Quote: Hyperion
                        But where exactly? Could you tell?

                        Quote: Dart2027
                        For example, from Lenin himself. Have you read his articles on autonomy?
                        On September 23, 1922, the General Secretary of the Central Committee of the All-Union Communist Party of Bolsheviks, Joseph Stalin, presented a project, autonomization provided for the complete absorption of these republics of the RSFSR and without any independence. According to Stalin's plan, no union republics were to exist. It was assumed that they would become part of Russia (RSFSR) as subjects of the Federation on a par with other autonomous republics.
                      78. 0
                        4 March 2023 18: 34
                        Quote: Dart2027
                        First, the people were divided into several parts.

                        It was divided even before the Bolsheviks. Great Russians, Little Russians, Belarusians.
                        "A short course in the history of the CPSU" can be continued to the present day. Putin was a communist.
                        Quote: Dart2027
                        Do you have anything to say about the video? Here they are driven.

                        I already said about the video. Someone is driven, someone goes on his own.
                        Quote: Dart2027
                        Elementary logic - they are better trained and losses in them are less painful.

                        I would write who is trained and how, but not those times now ...
                        Quote: Dart2027
                        On September 23, 1922, the General Secretary of the Central Committee of the All-Union Communist Party of Bolsheviks, Joseph Stalin, presented a project, autonomization provided for the complete absorption of these republics of the RSFSR and without any independence.

                        Where is this passage from? Memoirs of Stalin or something else like that?
                        Or some newfangled historian decided to tell the "real truth"? Maybe Stalin presented such a project, but were there opportunities for its implementation? Would there be enough strength to suppress the national republics of the country at the end of the difficult Civil War?
                      79. 0
                        4 March 2023 19: 28
                        Quote: Hyperion
                        It was divided even before the Bolsheviks. Great Russians, Little Russians, Belarusians.
                        Before the revolution, it was the same as now, for example, Siberians. So all to Lenin.

                        Quote: Hyperion
                        "A short course in the history of the CPSU" can be continued to the present day.
                        Which, in turn, speaks volumes about what it's all about.
                        Quote: Hyperion
                        Someone is driven, someone goes on his own.
                        There are just not enough of these going.
                        Quote: Hyperion
                        I would write who and how trained, but not those times now

                        How do you know? And by the way, in those days, SMEOSH would have shot 99% of the local experts properly.
                        Quote: Hyperion
                        Where is this passage from? Memoirs of Stalin or something else like that?
                        Quote: Dart2027
                        For example, from Lenin himself. Have you read his articles on autonomy?


                        It seems that I am greatly to blame before the workers of Russia for not intervening energetically and sharply enough in the notorious question of autonomization, officially called, it seems, the question of the union of Soviet socialist republics.
                        In the summer when this question arose, I was ill, and then, in the autumn, I placed excessive hopes on my recovery and on the fact that the October and December plenums would give me the opportunity to intervene in this matter. But, meanwhile, neither the October plenum (on this question) nor the December plenum did I succeed, and thus the question passed me by almost completely.
                        and further http://revarchiv.narod.ru/vladimilitch/lenin45/avtonomisazia.html
                        And the rest is historical reference, and not from somewhere.
                      80. 0
                        5 March 2023 11: 04
                        Quote: Dart2027
                        Before the revolution, it was the same as now, for example, Siberians.

                        And here it is not. Siberians now speak the same language as Muscovites, for example. And the culture is the same.
                        Quote: Dart2027
                        Which, in turn, speaks volumes about what it's all about.

                        Well, this is about the idea itself and its followers.
                        Quote: Dart2027
                        There are just not enough of these going.

                        A year to hold back the second army of the world somehow comes out.
                        Quote: Dart2027
                        How do you know? And by the way, in those days, SMEOSH would have shot 99% of the local experts properly.

                        From there. I don't want to go under the monastery.
                        The remaining 1% would have been finished off personally by Stalin, yeah ...
                        Quote: Dart2027
                        I seem to be greatly to blame before the workers of Russia for not intervening energetically and sharply enough in the notorious question of autonomization.

                        At first you wrote that Lenin, despite his illness, rushed to oppose the autonomization project, and now it turns out that Lenin was unable to attend the plenums.
                        Quote: Dart2027
                        and thus the question passed me almost entirely.
                      81. -1
                        5 March 2023 14: 40
                        Quote: Hyperion
                        Siberians now speak the same language as Muscovites, for example. And the culture is the same.
                        And now we remember what I wrote about how people were forced to become non-Russians.
                        Quote: Hyperion
                        Well, this is about the idea itself and its followers.
                        That is, communism is a utopia.
                        Quote: Hyperion
                        A year to hold back the second army of the world somehow comes out.
                        But this army is not completely at war.
                        Quote: Hyperion
                        From there. I don't want to go under the monastery.
                        That is, everything is so secret that it is impossible to say.
                        Quote: Hyperion
                        The remaining 1% would have been finished off personally by Stalin, yeah ...
                        No, that was what SMERSH was for.
                        Quote: Hyperion
                        At first you wrote that Lenin, despite his illness, rushed to oppose the autonomization project, and now it turns out that Lenin was unable to attend the plenums.
                        And then he found out and rushed to the aid of the Russophobic nationalists.
                      82. 0
                        6 March 2023 18: 59
                        Quote: Dart2027
                        And now we remember what I wrote about how people were forced to become non-Russians.

                        What kind of Russians are they, that they can be forced to be non-Russians? Look, the crypto-Armenians in Turkey still secretly remain Armenians. We recall the influence of Poland and Lithuania.
                        Quote: Dart2027
                        That is, communism is a utopia.

                        At the moment - yes.
                        Quote: Dart2027
                        But this army is not completely at war.

                        How is it not complete? Even mobilization had to be carried out.
                        Quote: Dart2027
                        That is, everything is so secret that it is impossible to say.

                        That is an article about discrediting.
                        Quote: Dart2027
                        And then he found out and rushed to the aid of the Russophobic nationalists.

                        And it was necessary to help the nationalists-Russophiles? Russian nationalism is different? Lenin's ideas lay outside the national plane. They were ahead of their time and our time.
                      83. -2
                        6 March 2023 19: 42
                        Quote: Hyperion
                        What kind of Russians are they, that they can be forced to be non-Russians?
                        There is a fact. Or will you deny the policy of Ukrainization?
                        Quote: Hyperion
                        At the moment - yes.
                        Until humans change as a species.
                        Quote: Hyperion
                        How is it not complete?
                        Most of these are conscripts, and it is forbidden to send them there.
                        Quote: Hyperion
                        Lenin's ideas lay outside the national plane. They were ahead of their time and our time.
                        Then all the more it was necessary to unite everything. If we talk about the creation of a new global humanity, then all the more it was necessary to erase all nationalities, only this was applied only to Russians.
                      84. 0
                        7 March 2023 13: 02
                        Quote: Dart2027
                        There is a fact. Or will you deny the policy of Ukrainization?

                        There was politics. But not in a vacuum. And what is Russian culture worth if you can take it and change it? And no one really objected.
                        Quote: Dart2027
                        Until humans change as a species.

                        Enough education, what other biological species ...
                        Quote: Dart2027
                        Most of these are conscripts, and it is forbidden to send them there.

                        Conscripts were compensated with mobs.
                        Quote: Dart2027
                        then all the more it was necessary to erase all nationalities, only this was applied only to Russians.

                        Such things are not done in one or two generations. And look at the Mordovians or the Udmurts - they almost do not know their own language. And this, to one degree or another, concerns many peoples of the Russian Federation.
                      85. -2
                        7 March 2023 18: 09
                        Quote: Hyperion
                        And no one really objected.
                        Is it true? Read above what I have already quoted.
                        Quote: Hyperion
                        Enough education, what other biological species ...
                        Ordinary, just like any other. Well, the fact that enough education has been successfully refuted by practice.
                        Quote: Hyperion
                        Conscripts were compensated with mobiles
                        Nevertheless, half of the army does not participate in the war.
                        Quote: Hyperion
                        Such things are not done in one or two generations.
                        That is, there is nothing to object. There are facts that I have cited.
                      86. 0
                        8 March 2023 10: 09
                        Quote: Dart2027
                        Is it true? Read above what I have already quoted.

                        Were there really some "Russian uprisings" against Ukrainization?
                        Quote: Dart2027
                        Well, the fact that enough education has been successfully refuted by practice.

                        It means they were brought up wrong.
                        Quote: Dart2027
                        Nevertheless, half of the army does not participate in the war.

                        The authorized strength of the SV Armed Forces of the Russian Federation is 280 thousand. And mobiks are 300 thousand. So, given the contract part of the army, volunteer battalions, the LDNR Armed Forces, mobiks, part of the Russian Guard, a decent number is recruited. On "drug addicts and deserters" should be enough, in theory.
                        Quote: Dart2027
                        That is, there is nothing to object. There are facts that I have cited.

                        What are the facts? You wrote that it was necessary to erase nationalities, and I replied that this was a long job.
                      87. 0
                        8 March 2023 11: 19
                        Quote: Hyperion
                        Were there really some "Russian uprisings"

                        Quote: Dart2027
                        From the note of the Gomel provincial committee (provincial committee) of the RCP (b) to the Central Committee of the RCP (b) on the report of the Central Bank of the CP (b) B, October 4, 1923.
                        The note of the Central Bank of Belarus on the issue of expanding the borders of Belarus at the expense of neighboring provinces, including at the expense of Gomel, is based on a number of considerations. The main consideration is ethnographic: the predominance of the Belarusian population in the Gomel province ...
                        The Central Bank cannot, of course, turn a blind eye to this fact, that the 1920 census showed a general decrease in the Belarusian population in the Gomel province in general, putting an end to the legend of “purely Belarusian counties”, and a drop in the Belarusian population by almost half in the counties of Gomel, Rogachev and Rechitsa…
                        The 1920 census establishes ... that in the Gomel province there are two districts in relation to the question of the Belarusian population: Bykhovsky - 79,96% of Belarusians, Klimovichsky - 69,42%, Mogilev - 57,09%, Chausy - 63,36%, Cherikov - 63,96% - Belarusian region and counties Gomel - 17,06% of Belarusians, Rogachevsky - 11,35%, Rechitsky - 39,53%, Mglinsko-Pochepsky - 0,15%, Novozybkovsky - 4,10%, Surazhsky - 0,35%, Starodubsky - 0,10% - the district is not Belarusian.
                        If, however, we move from the national definition to issues of everyday life, to the question of the national will of the population, we will encounter a phenomenon that cannot be ignored, with the absence of an active national will of the population, and some even with the presence of a hostile attitude towards cultural work in the Belarusian language. There are cases when the population of a purely Belarusian region actively opposes the transformation of a school from Russian into Belarusian.
                        From the memorandum of the Vitebsk Provincial Committee of the RCP(b) to the Central Committee of the RCP(b) on the report of the Central Bank of the CP(b)B, 1923.
                        Our province, together with Mogilev, once made up one province - Belorussian (at the end of the 18th century, under Paul I). And after the division into Vitebsk and Mogilev provinces from 1802 to 1840, both provinces were called Belarusian. Therefore, the term Belarusian was preserved among the peasants. But peasants often do not understand questions about their nationality, mixing the concept of nationality and religion. Nationality is something too abstract for them. For example, in the Velizh district, one peasant, when asked about his nationality, answered: “Old Believer” ...
                        https://www.kommersant.ru/doc/3906827


                        Quote: Hyperion
                        It means they were brought up wrong.
                        Yeah, in the same family with the same upbringing, completely different people. Well, how they were brought up in the USSR can be judged by the 90s.
                        Quote: Hyperion
                        The staff strength of the SV Armed Forces of the Russian Federation is 280 thousand people.
                        The authorized strength of the RF Armed Forces is a little over a million.
                        Quote: Hyperion
                        What are the facts?
                        The fact that Russophobes, led by Lenin, divided the Russian people.
                        Quote: Hyperion
                        and I replied that this is a long job
                        That is, for this it is necessary to create nationalities that did not exist?
                      88. 0
                        8 March 2023 18: 53
                        Clear. There were no uprisings. Only a few cases of dissatisfaction.
                        Quote: Dart2027
                        Well, how they were brought up in the USSR can be judged by the 90s.

                        The USSR was different at different stages. Stalin, Khrushchev, Brezhnev... We can say that the curriculum and teachers changed every time.
                        Quote: Dart2027
                        The authorized strength of the RF Armed Forces is a little over a million.

                        Headcount Ground Forces (NE Armed Forces of the Russian Federation) - 280 thousand. And the SVO is a predominantly land operation, so it makes sense to talk about the SV. Without the Navy and Strategic Missile Forces, which, for obvious reasons, do not participate (except for the Black Sea Fleet).
                        Quote: Dart2027
                        The fact that Russophobes, led by Lenin, divided the Russian people.

                        Quote: Dart2027
                        That is, for this it is necessary to create nationalities that did not exist?

                        And the Russian people were not some kind of monolith. The division into Little Russians, Great Russians and Belarusians was before Lenin. So no one created a nationality from scratch.
                        The entry of parts of the Eastern Slavs into the Grand Duchy of Lithuania and the Kingdom of Poland, on the one hand, and the emerging Russian state, on the other hand, led to growing differences in the socio-political system and created the preconditions for the formation of several East Slavic peoples.
                      89. 0
                        9 March 2023 22: 00
                        Quote: Hyperion
                        Clear. There were no uprisings.
                        There were no suicides. In the USSR, the rebels were dealt with quickly and harshly, which everyone knew about.
                        Quote: Hyperion
                        We can say that the curriculum and teachers changed every time.
                        That is, in Soviet schools they taught to steal and kill?
                        Quote: Hyperion
                        And the Russian people were not some kind of monolith. The division into Little Russians, Great Russians and Belarusians was before Lenin.
                        And then there are Siberians, Muscovites, Kuban, etc. There was a Russian people, and the rest is the fruit of the actions of some Russophobes who developed the ideas of others.
                        Quote: Hyperion
                        The entry of parts of the Eastern Slavs into the Grand Duchy of Lithuania and the Kingdom of Poland

                        Simply put, part of the Russians was occupied by the Poles. Then write down everyone who was under German occupation in 1941 as Germans.
                      90. 0
                        10 March 2023 10: 13
                        Quote: Dart2027
                        There were no suicides. In the USSR, the rebels were dealt with quickly and harshly, which everyone knew about.

                        But for some reason, such organizations as the UPA (banned in the Russian Federation) did not stop this.
                        Quote: Dart2027
                        That is, in Soviet schools they taught to steal and kill?

                        Strange conclusion. What does it have to do with killing/stealing?
                        Quote: Dart2027
                        And then there are Siberians, Muscovites, Kuban, etc.

                        All of them did not experience the influence of Lithuania and Poland, like Ukrainians and Belarusians.
                        Quote: Dart2027
                        Then write down everyone who was under German occupation in 1941 as Germans.

                        Record yourself. Your logic allows you to do this. And for me, being under occupation for 2-3 years and joining the Commonwealth for more than two centuries are two different things.
                      91. 0
                        10 March 2023 18: 55
                        Quote: Hyperion
                        But for some reason, organizations like the UPA

                        Which was a project of the German and then American intelligence services.
                        Quote: Hyperion
                        Strange conclusion. What does it have to do with killing/stealing?
                        So you yourself said that those who arranged the 90s were raised incorrectly. And who brought up the then thieves and murderers?
                        Quote: Hyperion
                        All of them did not experience the influence of Lithuania and Poland
                        In fact, Lithuania is also originally Russian territory. And there was already about influence - the fact that someone was a slave not of a Russian, but of a Polish landowner did not fundamentally change anything.
                        Quote: Hyperion
                        And for me, being under occupation for 2-3 years and joining the Commonwealth for more than two centuries are two different things.
                        Is it true? Then do not remember - how long was Warsaw part of the Russian Empire?
                      92. 0
                        10 March 2023 19: 34
                        Quote: Dart2027
                        Which was a project of the German and then American intelligence services.

                        But it consisted of Ukrainians. Who did not want to be part of either the Russians or the Soviets.
                        Quote: Dart2027
                        So you yourself said that those who arranged the 90s were raised incorrectly. And who brought up the then thieves and murderers?

                        St. Petersburg gateway, for example, but not a school.
                        Quote: Dart2027
                        In fact, Lithuania is also originally Russian territory.

                        What does "originally" mean? The Baltic tribes lived there. Yotvingians, Samogitians, Prussians, etc.
                        Quote: Dart2027
                        Then do not remember - how long was Warsaw part of the Russian Empire?

                        About a hundred years. BUT. Poland became part of the Republic of Ingushetia with an already formed nation, culture and religion. Yes, and with a long history of confrontation with Russia. In such cases, the change of mentality takes longer and is more difficult.
                      93. 0
                        11 March 2023 16: 12
                        Quote: Hyperion
                        But it consisted of Ukrainians.

                        And Vlasovskaya from whom? And how many were there in relation to the entire population?
                        Quote: Hyperion
                        Petersburg gateway, for example
                        That is, Soviet education was so miserable that it could not compete with the gateway?
                        Quote: Hyperion
                        What does "originally" mean?
                        The Grand Duchy of Lithuania was Russian.
                        Quote: Hyperion
                        BUT. Poland became part of the Republic of Ingushetia with an already formed nation, culture and religion.
                        And the Russians who were in the territories occupied by her had no culture, religion or nationality? Will there be a source?
                      94. 0
                        11 March 2023 18: 59
                        Quote: Dart2027
                        And how many were there in relation to the entire population?

                        A little, right? And yet they fought, albeit under the supervision of the Germans. And what did the Russians, who did not want to become Ukrainians and Belarusians, who, according to you, were in a serious number?
                        Quote: Dart2027
                        That is, Soviet education was so miserable that it could not compete with the gateway?

                        "So miserable" that the Russian Federation still lives on the legacy of the USSR.
                        Quote: Dart2027
                        The Grand Duchy of Lithuania was Russian.

                        It was mixed. Some are Lithuanians (several tribes), some are proto-Ukrainians and proto-Belarusians.
                        Quote: Dart2027
                        And the Russians who were in the territories occupied by her had no culture, religion or nationality?

                        Some were, of course. But not so stable and durable. Nation / people in the 16th century and in the 19th century are not the same thing.
                      95. 0
                        12 March 2023 12: 21
                        Quote: Hyperion
                        And yet they fought, albeit under the supervision of the Germans.
                        And without the Germans, they would not exist at all. Actually, the Germans and the ROA created.
                        Quote: Dart2027
                        In the USSR, the rebels were dealt with quickly and harshly, which everyone knew about.
                        so any attempt to do something was nipped in the bud.
                        Quote: Hyperion
                        "So miserable" that until now the Russian Federation
                        rakes the consequences of the USSR, which lived on the legacy of the Republic of Ingushetia.
                        Quote: Hyperion
                        It was mixed.
                        For some reason, it just called itself Russian, the language was Russian and they went under the Poles only because the local princes did not want to go under Moscow, which they lost in the competition for leadership among the Russian lands.
                        Quote: Hyperion
                        Nation / people in the 16th century and in the 19th century are not the same thing.

                        And that the Poles in the 16th century are like Russians in the 19th? And if you add the glorification of the UPA ... Hmm, dig a communist you will see a Russophobe.
                      96. 0
                        12 March 2023 16: 52
                        Quote: Dart2027
                        And without the Germans, they would not exist at all.

                        If yes, if only ...
                        Quote: Dart2027
                        so any attempt to do something was nipped in the bud.

                        And who was stopped? Were there Russians in the suppressors?
                        Quote: Dart2027
                        rakes the consequences of the USSR, which lived on the legacy of the Republic of Ingushetia.

                        We have already talked about this. There is no legacy of the Republic of Ingushetia as such, no raking now. On the contrary, what is left is being buried.
                        Quote: Dart2027
                        It just called itself Russian for some reason, the language was Russian

                        The Baltic population of the Grand Duchy of Lithuania - Samogitians, Aukstaits, Dzuks, part of the Yatvingians and Prussians - became the basis of the Lithuanian people. The Slavic population of the principality became the basis for the formation of two East Slavic peoples - Belarusians and Ukrainians.
                        ... Paperwork was conducted mainly in the Western Russian language (in Belarusian historiography it is also known as Old Belarusian, in Ukrainian - Old Ukrainian).

                        Quote: Dart2027
                        And that the Poles in the 16th century are like Russians in the 19th?

                        By the 19th century, in fact, the formation of nations in the political sense began.
                        Quote: Dart2027
                        And if you add the glorification of the UPA ...

                        And don't add it. And don't prejudice. Nobody heroized the UPA. Just an example.
                        Quote: Dart2027
                        Hmm, dig a communist you will see a Russophobe.

                        Rave. It's like "anti-Soviet - always Russophobe."
                      97. 0
                        13 March 2023 19: 58
                        Quote: Hyperion
                        If yes, if only ...
                        It is a fact. They were created by the Germans.
                        Quote: Hyperion
                        And who was stopped?
                        Cheka and similar structures.
                        Quote: Hyperion
                        We have already talked about this.
                        When I explained who created Ukraine.
                        Quote: Hyperion
                        Baltic population of the Grand Duchy of Lithuania


                        The Grand Duchy of Lithuania, Russia and Zhemoitsky [6] is an Eastern European state that existed from the middle of the XIII century to 1795 on the territory of modern Lithuania (with the exception of the Klaipeda region), Belarus (with the exception of the southeastern part, since 1569), Ukraine (large part, until 1569), Russia (western lands, including Smolensk, Bryansk and Kursk, until the middle of the 1569th century), Poland (Podlasie, until 1561), Latvia (partially, from 1561), Estonia (southern part, from 1629 to 1569) and Moldova (the left-bank part of the Moldavian Transnistria, until XNUMX).
                        The vast lands of Rus', which fell under the rule of the Grand Duchy of Lithuania and made up the lion's share of its territory, are called Lithuanian Russia..

                        Quote: Hyperion
                        By the 19th century, in fact, the formation of nations in the political sense began.
                        And before that, the French did not know that they were French, Russians, that they were Russians, and Germans that they were Germans, etc.?
                        Quote: Hyperion
                        And don't prejudice. Nobody heroized the UPA. Just an example.
                        An example of what?
                      98. 0
                        14 March 2023 09: 58
                        Quote: Dart2027
                        It is a fact. They were created by the Germans.

                        But after all it was from whom to create. There were those who wanted to.
                        Quote: Dart2027
                        Cheka and similar structures.

                        Were there Russians in the Cheka? Why did they stop the actions of their own Russians?
                        Quote: Dart2027
                        are called Lithuanian Russia.

                        That is, the principality was mixed nationally. And it was not entirely "originally Russian".
                        Quote: Dart2027
                        And before that, the French did not know that they were French, Russians, that they were Russians, and Germans that they were Germans, etc.?

                        Do not confuse ethnic groups with nations.
                        Constructivists deny the continuity between the ethnic groups of pre-industrial society and modern nations, they emphasize that nations are products of industrialization, the spread of universal standardized education, the development of science and technology, in particular, printing ("printed capitalism"), mass communications and information, and that in pre-industrial era, ethnic groups and ethnic identity did not play such an important role, since traditional society offered many other forms of identity (estate, religion, and so on).

                        Quote: Dart2027
                        An example of what?

                        An example of the struggle for their ideals.
                      99. 0
                        14 March 2023 19: 34
                        Quote: Hyperion
                        But after all it was from whom to create.
                        As in ROA.
                        Quote: Hyperion
                        Why did they stop the actions of their own Russians?
                        They obeyed their Russophobe leaders.
                        Quote: Hyperion
                        That is, the principality was mixed nationally.

                        Quote: Dart2027
                        and made up the lion's share of its territory, are called Lithuanian Rus.
                        We read, we read.
                        Quote: Hyperion
                        Do not confuse ethnic groups with nations.
                        And what for the German then it was not clear who was German and who was not?
                        As shortcomings of the constructivist concept, modern researchers point to increased ideologization, excessive adherence to functional (teleological) explanations, exaggeration of the role of ethnic elites, inability to explain the systemic stability of ethnic identities, etc.

                        Quote: Hyperion
                        An example of the struggle for their ideals.
                        Well then, all traitors need to be recorded as fighters for their ideals.
                      100. 0
                        15 March 2023 10: 11
                        Quote: Dart2027
                        As in ROA.

                        For some reason, there were no people willing to fight for their "Russianness" in Ukraine and Belarus.
                        Quote: Dart2027
                        They obeyed their Russophobe leaders.

                        And who then is to blame for the Russians? All that remains is to hope for the coming to power of a "good, just leader-Russophile." Independent active position tends to zero. And, it turns out that the Russian Chekists were Russophobes (albeit unintentionally)?
                        Quote: Dart2027
                        We read, we read.

                        We read, we read: Lithuanian Russia.
                        Quote: Dart2027
                        And what for the German then it was not clear who was German and who was not?

                        Uff ...
                        Quote: Hyperion
                        Do not confuse ethnic groups with nations.

                        Quote: Dart2027
                        Well then, all traitors need to be recorded as fighters for their ideals.

                        Traitors to some are rebel heroes to others. Hottentot morality at its finest. But not all traitors fight for their ideals. Some because of money, and someone because of fear for their lives.
                      101. -2
                        15 March 2023 19: 29
                        Quote: Hyperion
                        For some reason, there were no people willing to fight for their "Russianness" in Ukraine and Belarus.
                        And why don't you yourself, as a sympathizer, fight for the victory of the revolution?
                        Quote: Hyperion
                        And who then is to blame for the Russians?
                        That is, do not argue with the fact that Lenin was the conductor of the Russophobic policy.
                        Quote: Hyperion
                        We read, we read: Lithuanian Rus.


                        Quote: Dart2027
                        The vast lands of Rus', which fell under the rule of the Grand Duchy of Lithuania and constituted the lion's share of its territory, are called Lithuanian Rus.

                        Quote: Hyperion
                        Do not confuse ethnic groups with nations.

                        Quote: Dart2027
                        And what for the German then it was not clear who was German and who was not?

                        Quote: Hyperion
                        But not all traitors fight for their ideals. Some because of money, and someone because of fear for their lives.
                        That is, in you yourself say that the UPA were not ideological?
                      102. 0
                        16 March 2023 11: 15
                        Quote: Dart2027
                        And why don't you yourself, as a sympathizer, fight for the victory of the revolution?

                        Why are you getting personal? And how do you know if I'm fighting or not?
                        Quote: Dart2027
                        That is, do not argue with the fact that Lenin was the conductor of the Russophobic policy.

                        I do not consider Lenin a Russophobe. But I'm already tired of explaining that times were not easy and Lenin's decisions were caused by specific circumstances.
                        Quote: Dart2027
                        And what for the German then it was not clear who was German and who was not?

                        Once again, nations in the political sense began to form towards the end of the 18th and beginning of the 19th century, with the advent of industrialization. Prior to this, peoples identified themselves as subjects of one or another king / king or according to the area of ​​\uXNUMXb\uXNUMXbresidence.
                        Quote: Dart2027
                        That is, in you yourself say that the UPA were not ideological?

                        I did not write about the UPA. About traitors in general.
                      103. -1
                        16 March 2023 19: 55
                        Quote: Hyperion
                        Why are you getting personal? And how do you know if I'm fighting or not?
                        Well, you think that if the Russians did not stage an uprising then, then they are non-Russians. How about yourself?
                        Quote: Hyperion
                        But I'm already tired of explaining that times were not easy and Lenin's decisions were caused by specific circumstances.
                        Do you forget the fact that without him this nonsense with the republics would not have taken place at all?
                        Quote: Hyperion
                        Prior to this, peoples identified themselves as subjects of one or another king / king or according to the area of ​​\uXNUMXb\uXNUMXbresidence.
                        That is, until that time they did not know who they were? Do you remember, for example, the uprisings against the Poles?
                        Quote: Hyperion
                        I did not write about the UPA.
                        That is, all traitors except the UPA, and those heroes? Hmm...
                      104. 0
                        17 March 2023 14: 05
                        Quote: Dart2027
                        Well, you think that if the Russians did not stage an uprising then, then they are non-Russians. How about yourself?

                        Your illogical insinuations got me... I didn't say that they were non-Russians. I asked: if Russian culture is so important, then why didn't the Russians fight for it? Like the Kurds in Turkey, like the Basques in Spain, like the Irish in Northern Ireland? And why am I here? We are talking in general about peoples and nations. I personally fight or I don't fight - it doesn't matter.
                        Quote: Dart2027
                        Do you forget the fact that without him this nonsense with the republics would not have taken place at all?

                        Why is this "bullshit"? It was necessary at that time to negotiate with the national elites, because there would not be enough forces to suppress.
                        Quote: Dart2027
                        That is, until that time they did not know who they were?

                        There was no such national self-consciousness as since the beginning of the 19th century. Prior to that, citizenship, locality and religion mattered.
                        Quote: Dart2027
                        That is, all traitors except the UPA, and those heroes? Hmm...

                        Hmm ... what do you need to think to draw such a conclusion ..? And as for the UPA - for someone in Ukraine they are heroes. For Russia - traitors. Hottentot morality.
                      105. -2
                        17 March 2023 19: 20
                        Quote: Hyperion
                        I asked: if Russian culture is so important, then why didn't the Russians fight for it?
                        because any attempt to go against the general line was nipped in the bud.
                        Quote: Hyperion
                        I personally fight or I don't fight - it doesn't matter.
                        Exactly.
                        Quote: Hyperion
                        It was necessary at that time to negotiate with the national elites, because there would not be enough forces to suppress.
                        How many times it was explained to you that without Lenin's intervention, these "elites" would have calmly suppressed, and he saved them.
                        Quote: Hyperion
                        There was no such national self-consciousness as since the beginning of the 19th century. Prior to that, citizenship, locality and religion mattered.

                        So did the Germans know they were Germans or not? At the same time, I would like to know why this "citizenship, locality and religion" have lost their meaning in our time.
                        Quote: Hyperion
                        Hmm ... what do you need to think to draw such a conclusion ..?
                        Read what you write. So for you heroes or not?
                      106. 0
                        18 March 2023 10: 30
                        Quote: Dart2027
                        because any attempt to go against the general line was nipped in the bud.

                        Choked, including by the Russians themselves.
                        Quote: Dart2027
                        Exactly.

                        What is "just about"? Our discussion has a scale much larger than one person.
                        Quote: Dart2027
                        without Lenin's intervention, these "elites" would calmly suppress

                        Where such confidence? The country was weakened by the Civil War, nationalist forces, intervention, etc. raised their heads on the periphery. It is easy now to argue and assert that "they would have calmly suppressed."
                        Quote: Dart2027
                        So did the Germans know they were Germans or not?

                        For the Germans, the state in the modern plan appeared just in the 19th century. Before that - principalities such as Saxony, Bavaria, etc.
                        Quote: Dart2027
                        At the same time, I would like to know why this "citizenship, locality and religion" have lost their meaning in our time.

                        With the fact that there was a centralization of states.
                        Quote: Dart2027
                        Read what you write. So for you heroes or not?

                        From what I write it is impossible to draw the conclusions that you manage to draw.
                        They are not heroes for me.
                      107. -1
                        18 March 2023 14: 10
                        Quote: Hyperion
                        Choked, including by the Russians themselves.
                        That is, the fact that the Russophobe-Lenin pursued a Russophobic policy is no longer arguing? I already wrote about the rest.
                        Quote: Hyperion
                        Why such confidence?
                        Read the links above.
                        Quote: Hyperion
                        For the Germans, the state in the modern plan appeared just in the 19th century. Before that - principalities such as Saxony, Bavaria, etc.
                        So did the Germans know they were Germans or not?
                        Quote: Hyperion
                        With the fact that there was a centralization of states.
                        And what? People now do not divide each other according to all the listed signs?
                        Quote: Hyperion
                        They are not heroes for me.
                        That is, all these fighters for "independence" were simply traitors who sold themselves to the Germans.
                      108. 0
                        18 March 2023 18: 44
                        Quote: Dart2027
                        That is, the fact that the Russophobe-Lenin pursued a Russophobic policy is no longer arguing?

                        I wrote in Russian earlier that I do not consider Lenin a Russophobe. The Bolsheviks were able to save the territory of the Republic of Ingushetia (almost all) by those methods and means that were appropriate in those realities. In contrast, for example, from the Ottomans, in which only Turkey remained from the Empire. What kind of youthful maximalism do you demonstrate? If Lenin did not want to make the highest caste of Russians, this does not mean that he was a Russophobe. Nor could he have known what would eventually emerge after the collapse of the USSR. And Marxism-Leninism did not fit in with the concept of the rise of one people over another. There were completely different principles.
                        Quote: Dart2027
                        Read the links above.

                        They do not say anything about an easy opportunity to crush the republics under the RSFSR.
                        Quote: Dart2027
                        So did the Germans know they were Germans or not?

                        For a long time, Germany was feudally fragmented, so many regional self-names are still preserved in it - Swabians, Bavarians, Saxons, Franconians, and so on. The decisive role in the unification of the nation was played by the most powerful German state in the second half of the XNUMXth century - Prussia.

                        In short: someone knew that he was a German, but someone did not know.
                        Quote: Dart2027
                        And what? People now do not divide each other according to all the listed signs?

                        They share, but this division is no longer so pronounced. Above all this is the state and laws. Look in your passport: there is neither your religion, nor nationality, nor katoikonym. For the state, you are first and foremost a citizen. The last time I write about this is centralization. And in Europe it started in the 19th century.
                        Quote: Dart2027
                        That is, all these fighters for "independence" were simply traitors who sold themselves to the Germans.

                        How many people - so many opinions. It is likely that UPA fans consider them heroes.
                      109. 0
                        19 March 2023 11: 55
                        Quote: Hyperion
                        I wrote in Russian earlier that I do not consider Lenin a Russophobe
                        That is, there is nothing to object to the fact that he pursued a Russophobic policy. As for the rest, it already happened - everything could have been done differently, and it would have been done if not for him.
                        Quote: Hyperion
                        And Marxism-Leninism did not fit in with the concept of the rise of one people over another.
                        And at the expense of another joined.
                        Quote: Hyperion
                        For a long time, Germany was feudally fragmented, so many regional self-names are still preserved in it.

                        Read on
                        By the XII-XIII centuries, the territories inhabited by the Polabian Slavs and Pomorians were seized by German feudal lords, after which their integration into the Holy Roman Empire and the Germanization of these Slavic tribes began. However, the Pomorians (the ancestors of the modern Kashubians) and the Lusatians were never fully assimilated by the Germans.
                        In the XIII century, after the conquest of the territory inhabited by the Baltic tribe of the Prussians by the Teutonic Order, the process of their assimilation by the Germans began.
                        In the XIV century, the Silesian tribes, having fallen under the rule of the Luxemburgs, began to be subject to Germanization. Moreover, the population of Lower Silesia was only partly assimilated, in contrast to Upper Silesia.
                        That is, the Germans knew perfectly well that they were Germans, and the division was purely territorial.
                        Quote: Hyperion
                        For the state, you are first and foremost a citizen.
                        And what? Do people share or not?
                        Quote: Hyperion
                        How many people - so many opinions.
                        That is, you deny that the Germans created them for their own purposes?
                      110. 0
                        19 March 2023 18: 51
                        Quote: Dart2027
                        That is, there is nothing to object to the fact that he pursued a Russophobic policy.

                        Why should I object to something that wasn't there?
                        Quote: Dart2027
                        everything could have been done differently

                        You would have shown there as it should, yeah.
                        Quote: Dart2027
                        That is, the Germans knew perfectly well that they were Germans, and the division was purely territorial.

                        Not only territorial, but also religious. Google: Thirty Years' War. In your quote, the term "Germans" is retrospective, for the convenience of the modern reader.
                        And yet, regarding the Germans: there is such a people - the Austrians. Almost Germans, but live in a separate state. And the Austrians have fewer differences from the Germans than the Russians and Ukrainians. For now, at least.
                        Quote: Dart2027
                        Do people share or not?

                        At the household level they share. And according to state laws, all religions and peoples are equal.
                        Quote: Dart2027
                        That is, you deny that the Germans created them for their own purposes?

                        https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1_QT04gPewY
                      111. 0
                        20 March 2023 19: 40
                        Quote: Hyperion
                        Why should I object to something that wasn't there?
                        That is, there is nothing to argue.
                        Quote: Hyperion
                        You would have shown there as it should, yeah.
                        We read above about how they were going to do it before the intervention of the Russophobe-Lenin.
                        Quote: Hyperion
                        Not only territorial, but also religious.
                        That did not prevent the Germans from being Germans.
                        Quote: Hyperion
                        At the household level they share. And according to state laws
                        That is, you acknowledge that in fact all these divisions have been and will be. Well, the state does what is more profitable for it now.
                      112. 0
                        21 March 2023 09: 09
                        Quote: Dart2027
                        That is, there is nothing to argue.

                        That is, I'm tired of chewing on your thoughts on this subject several times.
                        Quote: Dart2027
                        We read above about how they were going to do it before the intervention of the Russophobe-Lenin.

                        “We were going to do it” does not mean that we could. It was smooth on paper...
                        Quote: Dart2027
                        That did not prevent the Germans from being Germans.

                        What does not prevent the Germans from being Swiss, Austrians, Swabians, etc.
                        Quote: Dart2027
                        Well, the state does what is more profitable for it now.

                        That's just it, that the state, like its laws, is more important and stronger than the church or individual ethnic groups.
                      113. 0
                        21 March 2023 19: 39
                        Quote: Hyperion
                        That is, I'm tired of chewing on your thoughts on this subject several times.
                        That is, the attempt to deny the acts failed.
                        Quote: Hyperion

                        “We were going to do it” does not mean that we could.
                        We read Lenin, the link above.
                        Quote: Hyperion
                        What does not prevent the Germans from being Swiss, Austrians, Swabians, etc.
                        There are Muscovites, there are Siberians, there are Ryazans, and so on.
                        Quote: Hyperion
                        That's just it, that the state, like its laws, is more important and stronger than the church or individual ethnic groups.
                        Great, but that doesn't change the fact that the Russians knew they were Russians and the Germans knew they were Germans. Well, the punitive machine of the Soviet state forced some of the Russians to become whoever.
                      114. 0
                        22 March 2023 10: 20
                        Quote: Dart2027
                        That is, the attempt to deny the acts failed.

                        As they say: if you argue with a stubborn and blinkered opponent, then in the end you yourself will become the same.
                        Quote: Dart2027
                        There are Muscovites, there are Siberians, there are Ryazans, and so on.

                        And do they have their own countries?
                        Quote: Dart2027
                        Great, but that doesn't change the fact that the Russians knew they were Russians and the Germans knew they were Germans.

                        From what century?
                        Quote: Dart2027
                        Well, the punitive machine of the Soviet state forced some of the Russians to become whoever.

                        And the Russians, and so "don't understand who." I mean, the concept of "Russian" is very vague. Whom the Russians just do not write down. Therefore, you can also write out anyone from the Russians.
                      115. 0
                        22 March 2023 19: 41
                        Quote: Hyperion
                        As they say: if you argue with a stubborn and blinkered opponent
                        Self-critical.
                        Quote: Hyperion
                        And do they have their own countries?
                        That is, you admit that the only thing that separates Russians living in Russia and living in Ukraine is the presence of an artificially created state-Ukraine.
                        Quote: Hyperion
                        From what century?
                        How many exist.
                        Quote: Hyperion
                        Therefore, you can also write out anyone from the Russians.
                        That is, you still recognize that there was an artificial division of the people.
                      116. 0
                        23 March 2023 09: 23
                        Quote: Dart2027
                        That is, you admit that the only thing that separates Russians living in Russia and living in Ukraine is the presence of an artificially created state-Ukraine.

                        That is, that is, that is ... You are tediously monotonous in your questions and conclusions ...
                        And why is Ukraine-artificial? At one time, the leaders of the RSFSR / RF recognized this country. If you look at it this way, then, perhaps, any country is artificial, because is a product of human activity. Before Homo sapiens, no countries existed in nature.
                        Quote: Dart2027
                        How many exist.

                        And how many exist? Those Russians that are now Russians used to be Slavic tribes, for example. As did the Germans. And at first the Russians were only those who labored with the Vikings.
                        Quote: Dart2027
                        That is, you still recognize that there was an artificial division of the people.

                        The people as a superethnos - perhaps. As separate branches - a difficult question. In any case, it was not made from scratch.
                        PS about whether the Bolsheviks could curb the national elites of Ukraine and Belarus and annex the republics to the RSFSR, and whether there were forces for this - I recommend that you familiarize yourself with the results of the Soviet-Polish war of 19-21.
                      117. 0
                        23 March 2023 20: 35
                        Quote: Hyperion
                        That is, that is, that is ... You are tediously monotonous in your questions and conclusions ...
                        I mean, I'm telling the truth.
                        Quote: Hyperion
                        At one time, the leaders of the RSFSR / RF recognized this country.
                        We read Lenin, the link above.
                        Quote: Hyperion
                        And how many exist?
                        Since ancient times.
                        Quote: Hyperion
                        The people as a superethnos - perhaps. As separate branches - a difficult question. In any case, it was not made from scratch.
                        Reading Lenin.
                        Quote: Hyperion
                        national elites of Ukraine and Belarus
                        We read about Belarus above.
                        Quote: Hyperion
                        I recommend that you familiarize yourself with the results of the Soviet-Polish war of 19-21
                        We read above both about Lenin and about Stalin.
                      118. 0
                        24 March 2023 09: 58
                        Quote: Dart2027
                        I mean, I'm telling the truth.

                        You are broadcasting your "truth". Through the prism of the Russian Empire.
                        Quote: Dart2027
                        Since ancient times.

                        And laughter and sin ...
                        Quote: Dart2027
                        We read above both about Lenin and about Stalin.

                        We read about the Soviet-Polish. Even then there were formations like the UNR and the Ukrainian SSR. And something had to be done with this, provided there were insufficient forces for integration into the RSFSR.
                      119. 0
                        24 March 2023 19: 00
                        Quote: Hyperion
                        You are broadcasting your "truth". Through the prism of the Russian Empire.
                        That is, the Russians owe everyone for being an empire?
                        Quote: Hyperion
                        We read about the Soviet-Polish.
                        So why did Poland not want to become one of the independent republics?
                        Reading Lenin.
                      120. 0
                        25 March 2023 09: 39
                        Quote: Dart2027
                        That is, the Russians owe everyone for being an empire?

                        That is, the Russians need to deal with internal problems and the organization of their country / territory.
                        Quote: Dart2027
                        So why did Poland not want to become one of the independent republics?

                        With what joy? Poland has always resisted the influence of Russia.
                      121. 0
                        25 March 2023 14: 29
                        Quote: Hyperion
                        That is, the Russians need to deal with internal problems and the organization of their country / territory.
                        Word for word what they said during perestroika. The methodology does not change.
                        Quote: Hyperion
                        With what joy? Poland has always resisted the influence of Russia.
                        That is, those who were able to join were joined without any republics, and their introduction was, in principle, meaningless.
                      122. 0
                        25 March 2023 19: 35
                        Quote: Dart2027
                        The training manual does not change.

                        What the fuck is a manual?! Common sense is. If there is a mess at home, then it’s not a good idea to amuse your imaginary imperial greatness (which was at one time, but it floated away) and thereby exacerbate many internal problems.
                        Quote: Dart2027
                        That is, who they were able to attach was attached without any republics

                        Made in accordance with the circumstances and opportunities at the time.
                      123. 0
                        26 March 2023 13: 46
                        Quote: Hyperion
                        What the fuck is a manual?!

                        Quote: Dart2027
                        Word for word what they said during perestroika.

                        The only difference is that then it was said by liberals, and now by liberals and communists.
                        Quote: Hyperion
                        Made in accordance with the circumstances and opportunities at the time.
                        We read above about Lenin, about Stalin and an example of how this was done.
                      124. 0
                        26 March 2023 19: 19
                        Quote: Dart2027
                        The only difference is that then it was said by liberals, and now by liberals and communists.

                        That is, internal problems do not need to be dealt with? It won't end well.
                        Quote: Dart2027
                        We read above about Lenin, about Stalin and an example of how this was done.

                        On the cola bast, start over.
                      125. 0
                        27 March 2023 20: 17
                        Quote: Hyperion
                        That is, internal problems do not need to be dealt with?

                        Like I said, it's an old tutorial. You can live without internal problems only in paradise, but in our world no one will succeed.
                        Quote: Hyperion
                        On the cola bast, start over.

                        Quote: Dart2027
                        We read above about Lenin, about Stalin and an example of how this was done.
                      126. 0
                        28 March 2023 09: 22
                        Quote: Dart2027
                        You can live without internal problems only in paradise, but in our world no one will succeed.

                        This does not mean that they should not be dealt with. And even more so to aggravate them with various adventures.
                        Quote: Dart2027
                        We read above about Lenin, about Stalin and an example of how this was done.

                      127. 0
                        28 March 2023 19: 51
                        Quote: Hyperion
                        This does not mean that they should not be dealt with. And even more so to aggravate them with various adventures.

                        That is, if you abandon foreign policy, then they will be quickly resolved?
                        Quote: Dart2027
                        Word for word what they said during perestroika. The methodology does not change.


                        Quote: Dart2027
                        We read above about Lenin, about Stalin and an example of how this was done.
                      128. 0
                        29 March 2023 08: 50
                        Quote: Dart2027
                        That is, if you abandon foreign policy, then they will be quickly resolved?

                        Why give up entirely? But, firstly, it is necessary to conduct foreign policy in a balanced and reasonable way, and secondly: if domestic policy is normal, then foreign policy will be better. Everyone wants to do business with a developed country. Not only African countries.
                        Quote: Dart2027
                        We read above about Lenin, about Stalin and an example of how this was done.

                        Tired of self-quoting? I'm fed up here. Therefore, I do not write in response to "read", what I already answered - about the situation and opportunities at that time.
                      129. +1
                        29 March 2023 20: 03
                        Quote: Hyperion
                        But, firstly: it is necessary to conduct a foreign policy in a balanced and reasonable way.
                        That is, to surrender everything and everything. Already passed.
                        Quote: Hyperion
                        Everyone wants to do business with a developed country. Not only African countries.
                        That's something in France howling that African countries do not want to deal with them.
                        Quote: Hyperion
                        what I already answered - about the situation and opportunities at that time
                        Once again - read Lenin.
                      130. 0
                        30 March 2023 10: 23
                        Quote: Dart2027
                        That is, to surrender everything and everything.

                        That is, you are talking about Ivan, and you are talking about an idiot. If for you "reasonably and balanced" means "surrender everything and everything", then what is there to talk about with you at all?
                        Quote: Dart2027
                        That's something in France howling that African countries do not want to deal with them.

                        Well, France does not write off billions of dollars of debt to African countries, unlike ...
                        Quote: Dart2027
                        Once again - read Lenin.

                        Stop going around in circles. And pour from empty to empty.
                      131. 0
                        30 March 2023 19: 34
                        Quote: Hyperion
                        That is, you are talking about Ivan, and you are talking about an idiot. If for you "reasonably and prudently" means
                        As I already said
                        Quote: Dart2027
                        Word for word what they said during perestroika. The methodology does not change.
                        Quote: Hyperion
                        Well, France does not write off billions of debts to African countries
                        That is, it is poorer than Russia.
                        Quote: Hyperion
                        Stop going around in circles. And pour from empty to empty.
                        That you are self-critical.
                      132. 0
                        31 March 2023 09: 23
                        Quote: Dart2027
                        As I already said

                        Judging by what you say, and how you distort the meaning of my comments, I can only regret the time spent on dialogue.
                        Quote: Dart2027
                        That is, it is poorer than Russia.

                        Cleverer.
                        Quote: Dart2027
                        That you are self-critical.

                        This is me objectively.
                      133. +1
                        31 March 2023 19: 23
                        Quote: Hyperion
                        Judging by what you say, and how you distort the meaning of my comments
                        True eyes hurts?
                        Quote: Hyperion
                        Cleverer.
                        And therefore loses huge profits from the robbery of their former colonies?
                        Quote: Hyperion
                        This is me objectively.
                        That's what I'm talking about self-critically.
                      134. -1
                        April 1 2023 08: 30
                        Quote: Dart2027
                        True eyes hurts?

                        What is the "truth" there? Illogical insinuations - nothing more.
                        Quote: Dart2027
                        And therefore loses huge profits from the robbery of their former colonies?

                        He does not write off multibillion-dollar debts.
                        Quote: Dart2027
                        That's what I'm talking about self-critically.

                        You are not self-critical.
                      135. +1
                        April 1 2023 10: 41
                        Quote: Hyperion
                        What is the "truth" there? Illogical insinuations
                        As I said, I heard all this during perestroika.
                        Quote: Hyperion
                        Multi-billion dollar debt
                        That is, there is nothing to say about the losses from the termination of the robbery.
                        Quote: Hyperion
                        You are not self-critical.
                        So don't I ignore the facts.
                      136. -1
                        April 1 2023 18: 21
                        Quote: Dart2027
                        As I said, I heard all this during perestroika.

                        Whether it is not enough that and where you heard. With huge internal problems, climbing to solve external ones (and even with the grace of an elephant) is the way to the bottom.
                        Quote: Dart2027
                        That is, there is nothing to say about the losses from the termination of the robbery.

                        France has losses from stopping the robbery (and, by the way, how much has been stolen lately, do you know?), And Russia has losses from debt cancellation. Feel the difference?
                        Quote: Dart2027
                        So don't I ignore the facts.

                        At least don't lie to yourself.
                      137. 0
                        April 2 2023 10: 44
                        Quote: Hyperion
                        Whether it is not enough that and where you heard.
                        The training manual does not change.
                        Quote: Hyperion
                        With huge internal problems, climbing to solve external ones (and even with the grace of an elephant) is the way to the bottom.
                        Huge problems is when all attempts to ruin the economy of the Russian Federation ended in zilch?
                        Quote: Hyperion
                        Feel the difference?
                        Russia will do business there and make a profit, but France will not.
                        Quote: Hyperion
                        At least don't lie to yourself.

                        Quote: Dart2027
                        We read above about Lenin, about Stalin and an example of how this was done.
                      138. -1
                        April 2 2023 18: 29
                        Quote: Dart2027
                        The training manual does not change.

                        In addition to primitive Uryakal arguments, there is nothing more ... Manual ...
                        Quote: Dart2027
                        Huge problems is when all attempts to ruin the economy of the Russian Federation ended in zilch?

                        Puff? Wait a year or two - you will see the whole "zilch" in all its glory.
                        Quote: Dart2027
                        Russia will do business there and make a profit, but France will not.

                        Russia or Putin's friends - oligarchs? Do not confuse personal wool with state wool. Yes, and you have to live up to the profits. In any case, it was not necessary to forgive debts, if in the mind. But where is the mind and where is the policy of the Russian Federation?
                        Quote: Dart2027
                        We read above about Lenin

                        We read about the Soviet-Polish, as an example of the fact that forces were not always enough.
                      139. 0
                        April 3 2023 19: 40
                        Quote: Hyperion
                        In addition to primitive Uryakal arguments, there is nothing more ...
                        That is, there is nothing to argue.
                        Quote: Hyperion
                        Puff? Wait a year or two - you'll see
                        I have been "waiting" for almost 10 years, since the Crimea.
                        Quote: Hyperion
                        Do not confuse personal wool with state wool.
                        And big business is always connected with the state.
                        Quote: Hyperion
                        In any case, it was not necessary to forgive debts, if in the mind. But where is the mind and where is the policy of the Russian Federation?
                        And who gave them a loan?
                        Quote: Hyperion
                        We read about the Soviet-Polish, as an example of the fact that forces were not always enough.

                        Quote: Dart2027
                        So why did Poland not want to become one of the independent republics?
                        Reading Lenin.
                      140. -1
                        April 4 2023 09: 21
                        Quote: Dart2027
                        That is, there is nothing to argue.

                        You definitely have nothing. In addition to the refrain about the "training manual".
                        Quote: Dart2027
                        I have been "waiting" for almost 10 years, since the Crimea.

                        Such sanctions as now have not yet been. Those that were after the Crimea - flowers.
                        Quote: Dart2027
                        And who gave them a loan?

                        Like who? THE USSR. And the Russian Federation is like an heir.
                        Quote: Dart2027
                        So why did Poland not want to become one of the independent republics?

                        I have already explained about Poland.
                      141. 0
                        April 4 2023 19: 40
                        Quote: Hyperion
                        You definitely have nothing.
                        I know that you have nothing to object to me. The methodology is old.
                        Quote: Hyperion
                        Such sanctions as now have not yet been.
                        They just have the same result.
                        Quote: Hyperion
                        Like who? THE USSR.
                        That is, he had no mind and he gave out loans that no one was going to return. Putin and here?
                        Quote: Hyperion
                        I have already explained about Poland.
                        Well, was it one of the republics of the USSR or not?
                      142. -1
                        April 4 2023 20: 28
                        Quote: Dart2027
                        I know that you have nothing to object to me. The methodology is old.

                        "Old training manual" (on demagogy) is your reference book, judging by the manner of communication. Decent people, in dialogue, do not repeat to the opponent's arguments like a parrot about a training manual and "there is nothing to object to." Only trolls, demagogues or imbeciles do this. You don't have much choice...
                      143. -2
                        April 5 2023 19: 15
                        Quote: Hyperion
                        "Old training manual" (on demagogy) is your reference book, judging by the manner of communication.
                        What to do if it is still being used.
                        Quote: Hyperion
                        Decent people, in dialogue, do not repeat to the opponent's arguments like a parrot about a training manual and "there is nothing to object to."
                        How many times have I advised you to read Lenin? You read?
                      144. -1
                        27 February 2023 14: 26
                        I've never been a member of the Komsomol and a communist. But we lived in the USSR better than now. My dad got an apartment for 80 square meters, with pink toilets and bathtubs, hell, I'll buy one today.
                      145. 0
                        28 February 2023 10: 39
                        Quote: Mordvin 3
                        But we lived in the USSR better than now.
                        Well, it's all relative. It wasn't all bad, but it was a dead end.
  21. -6
    4 February 2023 08: 56
    Many experts today tend to think that we greatly underestimated the enemy ...

    This is wrong. Your experts are not our experts.

    They were waiting for us in the Donbass, where they built defensive structures at our expense for eight years, and we started NVO from three directions, which confused all their cards. In the early days of the NMD, we completely deprived Ukraine of fuel and lubricants. That is why our fifth column organized negotiations for our surrender.



    Do not think that betrayal was only in the Second World War. It exists even now. We did not underestimate not the enemy, but the opposition to the interests of the country's internal enemies of the Motherland. It is the enemies that should not be ashamed of calling enemies enemies. When creating the Cheka, one of its main tasks was to combat sabotage...

    With the beginning of the CBO, you think when Biden said that the dollar would cost us 200 rubles. was he delirious? No. Nabiulina gave him a reason to say this by setting the key rate of the Central Bank at 20%. In reality, the banks that financed the enterprises gave loans at all 30%. This was supposed to bring down our entire economy and ensure the blitzkrieg of the West ... This is exactly what the West was counting on.
    1. +9
      4 February 2023 10: 45
      I mean, they organized negotiations, the GDP didn’t even know about them !? Boris, you're scaring me more and more.
      1. +4
        4 February 2023 15: 49
        Boris writes such things here that the readers' hair on the bald head stands on end.
  22. 0
    4 February 2023 09: 10
    Everything is much simpler.
    1) even the benefits of vaccination cannot be proved in words. Therefore, Russophobia is an emotion and not a rational choice.
    2) We can only offer a 6-hour working day after the victory.
    3) purely emotionally, they got used to being freeloaders under the USSR, freeloaded with taxes until February 24, and now they hope that they will not be sent to the trenches personally.
  23. -2
    4 February 2023 09: 35
    Deeply flawed article. I counted 12 erroneous positions. This is at least. Estimates of the past, the present are erroneous and the forecast is erroneous.
    One of the main erroneous statements is "a civil war is going on in our common land." The war is not civil. On our land there is a war with the Nazis who seized our land. It doesn't matter if they were born there. There is a war going on against anti-Russia, against deep, irreconcilable and merciless enemies of everything Russian, a war against mortal enemies.
    1. +7
      4 February 2023 10: 00
      If this is our land, where have we been on it since 91-22?
    2. 0
      4 February 2023 11: 14
      Quote: populist

      One of the main erroneous statements "on our common land there is a civil war .... There is a war against anti-Russia, against deep, irreconcilable and merciless enemies of everything Russian, a war against mortal enemies.

      A profoundly erroneous judgment. In 1918, the Civil War began with the formation of white armies in the territories occupied by foreign powers, the enemies of everything Russian .... Both Denikin and Krasnov could not have done anything without these mortal enemies.
      1. +2
        4 February 2023 12: 37
        ivan2022 (ivan) Today, 11:24 New
        "But the fact is that hatred of Russians in Ukraine is its ancient feature."
        You contradict yourself. A civil war is taking place between their own.
  24. +15
    4 February 2023 09: 44
    You can, of course, blame the "Ukrainian" national betrayal, to the west. But if you look in the mirror, a lot of unpleasant questions arise. Why has Russia been banking on the worst of the worst in Ukraine for the past 30 years? It's no secret that Viktor Yanukovych and his company sponsored "Svoboda" in Ukraine, and now he is resting in Rostov. Or Vitya Medvedchuk, the son of a nationalist convicted in his time, who was involved in the rehabilitation of the OUN-UPA in the 90s and also sponsored the Nazis, is now warming his belly in Sochi. Who ordered the surrender of Mariupol to Ukraine in 14, who sent a delegation from Kharkov in three funny letters with a proposal to join Russia in 14? This also applies to Odessa and Dnepropetrovsk ... It is clear that the "business" of the Abramovichs, Surkovs, Akhmetovs, Medvedchuks won ..... After that, how many people loyal to us were put under the knife by the Nazis. Why did they know exactly about the time of our offensive on February 24 and were ready for it? If in 14 about the Crimea - neither sleep nor spirit? Bucha, and Sumy, and Chernihiv, and Kyiv, Kharkov regions crawled out from here .... They themselves put more than a dozen of their generals in whom they were not sure, put them under the knife before and during the initial period of our NWO ..... And now we are wondering why the population of Ukraine is defending their country. And really why? Have we given them a choice?
    1. -3
      4 February 2023 09: 58
      It’s not entirely clear - how did they know it in 2022 ?? - they weren’t ready at all, but they were rescued by the self-mobilized population who closed the breakthrough of the Russian Armed Forces with their lives (I myself watched a video of Ukrainians who hid / died in a forest belt with only bottles of GS)
      1. +12
        4 February 2023 10: 07
        As times they perfectly knew and were ready. They kept the main, trained units (artillery, drones) near Kyiv, and we thought that in the Donbass. And we were defeated there .... Hence the "gestures of good will", "requests for negotiations", the abandonment of these territories. And the video that you saw is the "oil workers' park" about Kherson. Kherson was taken practically without our losses.
        1. -5
          4 February 2023 12: 34
          The strange logic of the General Staff of Ukraine is to meet the enemy, that is, we are already in the capital and give up the whole region (Kherson), in theory, if you are waiting for the enemy, you have to wait for him at the border. About the population, I also meant the distribution of weapons, I think 10000 died there, but they held back the offensive. People really rallied and when something shoots from every window, it slows everything down. As I understand it, the General Staff of the Russian Federation expected to take exactly the capital, but it’s not clear to me how I wanted with such small forces
          1. +3
            4 February 2023 20: 00
            Quote: Igor1915
            The strange logic of the General Staff of Ukraine, to meet the enemy, that is, we are already in the capital and give up the whole region (Kherson), in theory, if you are waiting for the enemy, you have to wait for him at the border

            There was a massive betrayal of the local leadership. Not only in the southeast, but also in Kharkov, for example. The FSB did not work as badly as is commonly believed. There were no girls in wreaths and with bread and salt, but the heads of the regional departments of the Armed Forces of Ukraine were, and not alone. Now these stories are slowly coming out.

            But something went wrong in Kyiv.
            1. 0
              4 February 2023 20: 14
              And what about in Kharkov, who helped us with what? - everyone approached the outskirts, if there were anyone on the side of the Russian Federation, I don’t know anything about them. From what I saw - it was easy (as far as possible) only to Kherson - the rest was heavy fighting.
              1. +1
                4 February 2023 22: 44
                Quote: Igor1915
                And what about in Kharkov, who helped us with what?

                In Kharkov, the Nazis quickly destroyed the Russian Stulpnagels - and then they also destroyed the light infantry on wheels, which rushed to their aid.
                Quote: Igor1915
                From what I saw - it was easy (as far as possible) only to Kherson - the rest was heavy fighting.

                The entire southeast, and the north too. How the RF Armed Forces fight when they have to fight, we have been seeing since March. As they fight in the PCHV, they didn’t come up with anything new here. In February, things went AT ALL wrong - which means that, in addition to the existing military prowess, some other factors played.

                The question here is not how the RF Armed Forces got to Kyiv - it is clear how - but what went wrong in Kyiv itself. There were already fights in the city, it seemed that Gazmanov's concert was really just around the corner.
                1. +1
                  5 February 2023 03: 17
                  "In Kharkov, the Nazis quickly destroyed the Russian Stulpnagels - and then they also destroyed the light infantry on wheels, which rushed to their aid."
                  It is possible more in detail? with reference to where the information came from
                  1. 0
                    5 February 2023 11: 28
                    )))
                    I confused the APU and SBU in the phrase
                    Quote: Negro
                    but the heads of the regional departments of the Armed Forces of Ukraine were, and not one

                    To blame.
                    For the activities of the Kharkov SBU, let's say here.
                    https://news.liga.net/politics/news/harkovskiy-eks-glava-sbu-pytalsya-zahvatit-vlast-v-pervye-chasy-vtorjeniya-sinegubov

                    Separately, the efficiency of Zelensky is striking - this fruit headed the Kharkiv SBU for another three months.

                    Regarding the fifth battle for Kharkov - see at least on this site.
    2. +6
      4 February 2023 10: 19
      . And now we are wondering why the population of Ukraine is defending their country. And really why? Have we given them a choice?
      Is this their country? You apparently have not even heard about the sale of land there. But they were brainwashed, that's a fact. I myself served with guys from western Ukraine, and they were no different from us. The question is, how did the leadership of Russia turn out to be so blind that they didn’t see what was happening there, and even under their noses, they didn’t see a damn thing.
      1. 0
        4 February 2023 10: 24
        You don't seem to understand what I wrote - we left them no choice.
        1. +3
          4 February 2023 12: 52
          It left us no choice. And dill, just a pawn in all of this.
    3. +1
      4 February 2023 11: 24
      We left the Ukrainians a choice and this has been announced many times. But the fact is that hatred of Russians in Ukraine is its ancient feature. READ THE "TALE OF TIME YEARS" ST. O. NESTOR. CHARACTERISTICS OF POLYANS (ANESTHORS OF UKRAINIANS) AND OTHER TRIBES.....
      1. 0
        4 February 2023 12: 29
        Yes, of course, they left them a choice, those who chose us and were waiting for us - in Kyiv, Chernihiv, Sumy, Kharkov regions, in Mariupol, Odessa, Dnepropetrovsk .... the Nazis simply put them under the knife. And we also "highlighted" them with our actions, so that the Nazis would not make a mistake.
      2. -2
        27 February 2023 14: 31
        Quote: ivan2022
        that hatred of Russians in Ukraine

        I didn't see the hate. A friend was from western Ukraine, a friend from Zaporozhye ...
  25. +2
    4 February 2023 09: 53
    Everything is on point, but there are a few questions, when they made information about the laboratory, we gave them a discount on gas, who turned out to be in the black? The basis was about .. in 2014, GDP was beaten that, in general, it would not hurt to publicly go out and admit what the country is now paying for with the lives of the best of its citizens.
    1. +4
      4 February 2023 09: 59
      In fact, the GDP admitted that all this should have been done back in 2014. But he was "ashamed" to say why in the 14-15s. didn't finish the job.
      1. 0
        4 February 2023 20: 19
        Because they were not ready from the word at all, but to chop with a saber - courage (but historically only a few could have done this - one cannot blame) was not enough. For me, one of the mysteries is what the Austrian chancellor reported from the collective West to the GDP in 2014, as I understand it, it was after that that the full-scale operation was canceled. I think unfortunately I don't know. So many do not live.
        1. -2
          27 February 2023 14: 36
          Quote: Igor1915
          Because they were not ready from the word at all,

          Lies. In 1914, our army was no different from 2022.
  26. +4
    4 February 2023 09: 56
    It was necessary for the last 30 years to "work" with the neighboring countries, and not pretend to be a kind uncle, an invisible virgin and Ivan the Fool, who hopes that "everything will somehow resolve itself."
    1. +3
      4 February 2023 10: 10
      No one is going to work with the former Soviet republics in the Russian Federation. Hiding behind the toothless signs "CIS", "CSTO", etc., they are leading to a complete loss of Russia's influence.
      1. 0
        4 February 2023 11: 32
        What does it mean to work? We must offer them more than the United States (with impunity to cut budgets and buy mansions in London) and China (investments with subsequent shares in enterprises). Yes, we can still close our enterprises and drive people out into the street to launch the same Kazakhs into our market (why do we constantly gore with them, then duties are introduced, all sorts of sticks are found in products). But our market is scanty (not like the US), so Putin spends trillions on childbearing to stimulate demand. There are no friendly states, there is only benefit to the elites.
  27. +4
    4 February 2023 10: 00
    And it all began not 8 or 30 years ago, but back in 1917. When the idea of ​​"Russian chauvinism" became state. When flirting with nationalists began (and not only in Ukraine), when the division of the country appeared not on a territorial, but on a national basis. True, nationalism was mitigated by the presence of a single lofty goal - building a just society. For all. This goal in the late Union was gradually eroded, nationalism flourished. And after 1991, there was no goal left in the post-Soviet space except for consumption. Therefore, now Russia does not have any methods to rally the former fraternal peoples. The elites of the new countries categorically do not want to lose their unlimited power, and this can only be achieved by planting nationalism.
    Something can be done if you propose some kind of global idea, show a goal that is attractive to all the peoples of the former Union. But where is she? And can oligarchic Russia give birth to such an idea at all.
    1. +2
      4 February 2023 10: 07
      Yes, it directly "began in 1917"! Grushevsky had already been publishing since 1906, fanning a flame from his spark. As a result, before the collapse of the Empire, structures were already operating in Kyiv, ready to seize power, and the Provisional Government was forced to negotiate with them, calling for a delay in declaring "independence".
      1. +2
        4 February 2023 16: 01
        He could inflate at any time, but it was in Soviet times that he became the official ideologist. Because it was in the 20s that the forcible ukranization of Russians was carried out.
        1. -2
          4 February 2023 20: 23
          Watch Elderberry's video on this topic (God rest in peace) - in the 1914th, many from Ukraine did not know Ukrainian nationality
          1. 0
            4 February 2023 23: 41
            So what am I talking about? It was under Soviet rule that everyone who lived in the newly created republic was forcibly recorded as Ukrainians.
    2. +5
      4 February 2023 11: 15
      when the division of the country appeared not on a territorial basis, but on a national basis

      Well, yes, we all remember - Lenin's bomb. How..

      And you think - did Lenin have a different choice then? That's just ended the hardest Civil War. On all the outskirts - there are quite decent national armed formations. Yes - for the most part they are Bolsheviks, but their leaders say - we are for Soviet power, but we want to have our own national republics. Members of the Union. And we don't want the former provinces. These are our conditions.

      And - what would you do in Ilyich's place? Would they say no - and unleash a new war? And what forces? Are there bayonets for this? And can the country afford a new round of devastation? No? Then what are we talking about?

      Whatever they say - but compare the territory of the Soviet Union and the current Russian Federation. And a strange thing comes out - the Bolsheviks somehow managed to keep Russia practically within its former borders. Despite the dire circumstances. And noneshnye liberalists and crap-rats - they screwed up all 500 years of work on collecting lands. But of course, Lenin and the Bolsheviks are to blame for what happened .. Not them at all. Ugh.

      Trending something from the screen about galoshes and bombs is not necessary. To do something for the country and the people comparable to the Bolsheviks - yes. And here we have a complete golyak and rotten stuff. So..
      1. +1
        4 February 2023 12: 26
        The civil war has been going on since 1917. Only the phases change
      2. +1
        4 February 2023 16: 25
        And why were the Bolshevik leaders for national republics? What about the proletarians of all countries? Why some conditions? Is it because it was Lenin who shouted about the "prison of peoples", about "Great Russian chauvinism" on every corner? And for some reason he agreed to the national republics, but not to the Far East. If we are to single out the outskirts, then everything, so as not to be offended.
        1. +3
          4 February 2023 17: 30
          You seriously do not know why Lenin advocated nat. republics and, in particular, for Ukraine? Yes, because the idea was a "world revolution" and in Germany it had already begun at that time and it was meant that Germany would join the Union as a republic.
          1. -1
            5 February 2023 13: 51
            Do you know when the USSR was created? By that time, all revolutionary uprisings in Europe had long been crushed, and the idea of ​​a world revolution was relegated to a vague future.
      3. +1
        4 February 2023 16: 32
        Yes, the situation with Lenin was very difficult, but then they didn’t stand on ceremony. How many governments in these same republics were "replaced" from Menshevik or extremely nationalist to Bolshevik? Couldn't the Bolshevik nationalists be replaced by internationalists? Or didn't you want to?
      4. +3
        4 February 2023 16: 39
        Well, comparing 1917 and 1991 is simply ridiculous. In the first case, the old country was destroyed in order to build a new, better one. And in the second, they were simply sold for an illusory opportunity to get into the international elite for these same sellers. Therefore, the results are radically different.
      5. 0
        4 February 2023 17: 42
        Quote: paul3390
        And you think - did Lenin have a different choice then?

        Of course there was - do nothing. Lenin himself was sick then and the process of creating a new state was carried out under the leadership of Stalin, who put forward a much more reasonable system - only autonomies and no national republics. Well, when Lenin found out about this, he even recovered from indignation and pushed through this nonsense with his power.
        A typical example of how much the people wanted this was the Donetsk-Krivoy Rog Republic, which, in response to the desire to become part of Russia, was kicked off to the newly formed Ukraine. Here, one "smart guy" tried to "explain" to me that this was necessary so that the Donetsk people could fight the Germans, but after the question "what prevented them from fighting as part of Russia" for some reason stopped the conversation.
        1. -1
          4 February 2023 19: 12
          Here one "smart guy" tried to "explain" me

          This is just nothing to do with it. Just according to the classics - socialism cannot be built in a peasant country. Evon Mao tried - naturally nothing happened. And in Ukraine - it was about the same sad. So they decided to dilute the raguli with the proletariat ..
          1. +1
            4 February 2023 19: 39
            Quote: paul3390
            socialism cannot be built in a peasant country

            Yes. That's just the USSR collapsed being no longer a peasant country. Just in order to overthrow the government, you need to recruit infantry in the cities where politics is being done.
            It cannot be built at all.
            Quote: paul3390
            So they decided to dilute the raguli with the proletariat.

            And what prevented them from leaving all of them as part of Russia?
          2. 0
            4 February 2023 19: 56
            Quote: paul3390
            Evon Mao tried - naturally nothing happened.

            But when this professional loafer was buried, it turned out much better than in many other places. True, not with the Soviet, but with the German version of socialism, so to speak.
  28. +15
    4 February 2023 10: 04
    In general, when everything went wrong, it is necessary to blame the responsibility on strangers.
    To the west, NATO, Bandera, Western intelligence services, brainwashed and "my hut is on the edge."

    And of course, do not remember that about brainwashed, zombie box, "my hut is on the edge", "small victorious war", "negative selection", "the government lives on another planet", Maidan oligarchs, European commissioners and other things at all posted here recently.
    Without a full name, usually, so that the "hut on the edge" remains at large

    Everything is like in the parable about the mote and the beam in the eye...
  29. +4
    4 February 2023 11: 10
    They themselves are to blame for everything, having allowed the creation of other states on their land.
    1. +5
      4 February 2023 13: 19
      Why on earth did the enemies of the USSR, who captured one of the 15 republics of the USSR, the RSFSR, imagine that the entire USSR belonged to you?
      1. -1
        4 February 2023 17: 44
        Quote: tatra
        Why on earth are the enemies of the USSR who captured one of the 15 republics of the USSR - the RSFSR

        That is, the allies of the USSR are now in Ukraine? Although if you think about it, it is really the creation of Lenin.
  30. +2
    4 February 2023 11: 18
    Well, firstly, our propaganda, as in 1914, played a cruel joke, then we will help the little brothers and put the Kaiser on bayonets even now, with one left. People in the subject already in 2015 said the outlying army knows how to fight, and Debaltseve had a hard time for us, many patriots died heroically, ignoring the technical and organizational shortcomings of our army. You can say whatever you want, it’s now hype on the outskirts of fighting Russia and it’s not safe for life to express a different opinion. The problem of many peoples in the fight against the frostbitten elite is a weak opposition. In order for the soldiers to turn their bayonets in the opposite direction in 1917, thousands of ideological Bolsheviks who went through prisons, exiles and betrayal of elites who were thirsty and knocked down each other in a desire to replace the influence of the tsar were needed. Now the elite is pro-Western, Russophobic for one reason, as long as it is against Russia, everything is allowed to it. Yes, the CIA raised several thousand Nazis from the active population, but the revolution showed that all sorts of Petliura, Makhnovshchina and others are swept away at once. But just then? They go to power for a good life and who refuses to do nothing, steal with impunity only barking against Russia, rather than raking for a salary and receiving slaps from the people. Yes, there was a veil not only on the outskirts and we have that the West will help us, but we, like the Baty, quickly self-organized and the outskirts rolled down from Kievan Rus to the outskirts. Weak will always ends sadly for its bearer in an era of change.
  31. +2
    4 February 2023 11: 45
    Most likely, we really underestimated the enemy
    - Is this a speech on behalf of the top military-political leadership of Russia? Then yes, if the intelligence reported accurately, then the conclusions were drawn incorrectly. If intelligence did not report accurately, this is no better.
  32. +12
    4 February 2023 11: 46
    I already wrote in the comments to one article here, but I repeat .... honestly, what could Russia offer Ukraine that Ukraine did not have? What image of the future could Russia create so that its neighbors would reach out to it? A more equitable distribution of national wealth? ... More "human" oligarchs? Incorruptible judiciary or low corruption? At times higher standard of living or income of the bulk of the population? The Ukrainian political nation as a whole has taken shape, its financial and industrial capital has realized its interests and, in general, has no interest in sharing its "cow" with its Russian "colleagues", i.e. country that they can milk themselves. And the population of Ukraine, seeing what was happening in Russia, also did not really want to live under the conditional Abramoviches.
    1. +7
      4 February 2023 15: 18
      Your text is the only answer where the main problem is correctly stated.
      Ukrainians are very pragmatic people who know how to count money.
      The list of such questions can be continued:
      1 Has the retirement age been lowered in Russia?
      2 Don't millions of migrants come in?
      3 Are villages and small towns dying out?
      4 Not destroyed school and higher education, science, industry?
      5 Stable ruble?
      6 Are financial speculators tamed?
      The list of such questions is long.
      1. 0
        4 February 2023 15: 28
        Ukrainians are very pragmatic people who know how to count money.
        And only strangers Yes .
    2. -1
      4 February 2023 16: 45
      In general, I agree, but one remark. No political nation took place. She was not and is not. But the capital and the government realized their interest instantly, and it is they who are trying to inspire everyone with the existence of a certain Ukrainian nation. To keep milking her like you said.
  33. +3
    4 February 2023 12: 17
    Quote: Boris55
    Many experts today tend to think that we greatly underestimated the enemy ...

    This is wrong. Your experts are not our experts.

    They were waiting for us in the Donbass, where they built defensive structures at our expense for eight years, and we started NVO from three directions, which confused all their cards. In the early days of the NMD, we completely deprived Ukraine of fuel and lubricants. That is why our fifth column organized negotiations for our surrender ...
    And what was the person holding the position of the Supreme High Command doing at that time? Bamboo smoked, or were these negotiations organized with his consent? sad
  34. +5
    4 February 2023 13: 19
    according to the article, everything turns out beautifully - Omeriga is to blame, she outplayed us. And now it is she who drives our oil and gas and other resources through Ukraine to the West? She brought 350 billion US dollars to the West - just before the NWO? The article is very harmful, maybe even custom-made - they say it's time to join hands again and build a new future together, and we'll re-educate the bad guys, haha. It is impossible to re-educate such a people who remember the Battle of Konotop for 500 (!) Years (and the children shout "kill ...").
    And yes, as a child, 60 years ago, I went to Ukraine to visit relatives, and then they grumbled ..
  35. +7
    4 February 2023 13: 20
    And in our country, with the tacit consent of the majority, they raised the retirement age and carried out so many "useful" initiatives that you wonder if there are still people in power who care about the fate of the country, and not the feeders
  36. +5
    4 February 2023 13: 33
    It's interesting, but in our country of Russia, for the past 40 years, foreign NGOs have been working on the minds of young people - is it like everything is fine ???
  37. +3
    4 February 2023 13: 43
    . But they believed! They did not want to recover with us, gradually and painfully freeing themselves from the scab of corruption and the dominance of the oligarchs. They did not want to revive their own science and industry bit by bit, build new factories, roads, schools and hospitals
    Have we recovered? We have an aligarh who distributes iPhones to the Nazis and sent them from our captivity to Turkey to rest. Did any of the aligarhs send humanitarian aid to the Donbass at least once? We ourselves are still sick and have been living for 3 decades without a coherent ideology. we know the true goals of this mysterious SVO. along with the Anglo-Saxons, if we get to the walls of Kyiv. They will defend their land and their homeland, whatever it may be. Then they will take revenge on us for their grandfathers, fathers and brothers for many years, as the widows of Caucasian militants did in the XNUMXs.
    1. -1
      4 February 2023 13: 57
      widows of Caucasian militants
      Dill from the wrong dough - don't worry Yes .
      Their drug addict and Co. under arms will easily call
      Kakbe already they have a problem with it...
    2. -4
      4 February 2023 16: 32
      Do not know the true purpose of the NWO? So this is not a secret for a long time, you just need to be able to analyze what you hear. The goal was a preemptive strike on a Ukrainian grouping ready to attack the Donbass, a couple of days ahead of the force. Everything else said is already husks and pep talks for internal consumption.
      1. +3
        4 February 2023 19: 54
        Quote: evgen1221
        The goal was a preemptive strike on a Ukrainian grouping ready to attack the Donbass, a couple of days ahead of the force

        Wow statement. That is, thousands (according to Shoigu's statements in the autumn) of Russian soldiers went to Ukrainian soil because of a showdown between some Ukrainian drug addict and some Ukrainian MMMschik?
  38. +8
    4 February 2023 13: 51

    Hitler is not in the photo.
    Il testo del tuo commento è troppo breve e, secondo l'amministrazione del sito, non contiene informazioni utili.
  39. +5
    4 February 2023 14: 52
    Well, with them, it's understandable. Well, what are we to do? We feel with every fiber that something is not right. Somehow everything is awkward. What are we to rally around? NWO? no, it's not an ideology. Spirituality? But it must be supported by something other than braces. We don't have a clear goal. There is no Russian dream. Without it, it's rubbish.
  40. +1
    4 February 2023 14: 54
    I had a chance to communicate with Ukrainians in XNUMX-XNUMX. For Westerners, even then we were enemies, but now ... Let's be realistic: they, Westerners will NEVER be our own
    an acquaintance, he really died a long time ago, he told how he served somewhere in the period of 78-80 in Western Ukraine, so they were forbidden to go on leave one by one because the local population looked at them so they were ready to kill you and tear you to pieces with their eyes. brotherly people.
  41. +11
    4 February 2023 15: 14
    Another cheers patriotic article. The West is to blame for everything and all that. Is it not our president who built and finances the Yeltsin Center? Is it not our president who worships the fascist Ilyin and the traitor Solzhenitsyn? Isn't our country trading with Ukraine with the hands of the oligarchs right now, while the guys are dying at the front on both sides?! What about Russia and Ukraine - today they are exactly the same unfortunate countries under the control of a handful of snickering traitors and oligarchs. And this war is a direct consequence of the collapse of the Union. And I don't think it's the last.
  42. 0
    4 February 2023 15: 28
    For many years, not the Ukrainian special services, but the Russian ones, burned with a red-hot iron all organizations that tried to promote the unity of the three peoples. Twenty years ago, the SBU just nervously smoked on the sidelines, as the FSB and the Ministry of Internal Affairs in Russia destroyed cultural foundations that tried to promote this unity in the post-Soviet space.
    And when they realized it a couple of years ago, it turned out that thirty years of independence and the last eight years of frenzied Nazi propaganda turned the population of the Reich into a zombified crowd.
  43. The comment was deleted.
    1. -5
      4 February 2023 15: 44
      they can be citizens of the planet while remaining Ukrainians.
      To love Ridna Nenko, devouring the country more successfully and richer, into which they managed to slip away from this very Nenko laughing What a good trait of national identity Yes .
      Donbass was supposed to become the Soviet Baltic
      There will be no freebies tongue .
      1. 0
        7 February 2023 02: 45
        Quote: Bolt Cutter
        managed to slip out of this very Nenko

        How is the weather in London Alex?
        Are you on a mission there?
    2. -2
      4 February 2023 17: 53
      Quote: Hagakure
      Typical chauvinist-Nazi article. It was written by a Nazi who, like all Nazis, cannot understand why others want to be Nazis too.

      Well, there is nothing to say about the content of the article.
      Quote: Hagakure
      But the peak of Russian disgrace was Mariupol. It turned out that Russia, which bloodlessly and majestically took the Crimea, does not have any modern weapons, and Mariupol, the city of Donbass that she allegedly came to defend, she razed to the ground.

      Well, enlighten us, my dear, with some kind of weapon it had to be taken.
      Quote: Hagakure
      Russia, under the bravura songs about brotherhood, continued to close its market, wage gas and other economic wars, even with the pro-Russian Yanukovychs.

      This is when the Ukrainians openly stole gas and demanded preferential prices by blackmail?

      You work rudely, Mr. TsIPSoshnik, such lies have not been rolled for a long time.
    3. +7
      4 February 2023 19: 48
      Is it nationalism that has blossomed in Russia?? And it was not Putin who said the infamous phrase: "nationalism is the last refuge of scoundrels," and destroyed all Russian organizations and stopped Russian marches, dispersed the already forgotten skinheads. And it was Russia that closed its markets from other countries? Come to your senses, we have had a free market orgy for 30 years, they rushed to sell us from "wings-gaskets" to cars and planes, but at the same time they carefully concealed their technologies, and our productions were bought up and destroyed: aircraft building, machine tool building (I worked a long time ago at the machine-tool plant "Red Proletarian" in Moscow, on Shabolovka. Our machines were bought by 75 (!) Countries of the world - it was ruined, bankrupted and destroyed. His director was not in vain, he was shot in Cyprus, but do not think that this is a noble revenge of the deceived state, they simply, apparently, were not divided). Another machine-tool giant, zd im. S. Ordzhonikidze, next to him, was also hijacked, ruined and disappeared. Further, the industry for the production of microchips (then still microchips) in Zelenograd was destroyed - and, by the way, it was created largely due to two Americans who defected to (!) the Soviet Union. They were associated with the Manhattan Project. One of the names of one was Berg, but I don’t remember the second. And many other industries were destroyed in the period -30 - 22 years ago. Is that what you call we're closed?
      I don’t even want to discuss the rest of your arguments - you are not a friend of Russia
  44. +7
    4 February 2023 15: 40
    And further. What idea could Russia offer in the post-Soviet space? The idea of ​​limitless consumerism? So in the gay European union this idea is elevated to the absolute. Here's the rub. The idea - are we all of the same blood? So what? This is somehow not impressive today.
    What else could Russia offer? The same power of the oligarchies, as in the Reich's coming out? Unity of the Kolomoisky-Akhmetov-Poroshenkos with the Potanins-Avens-Friedmans-Deripaskas-Rothenbergs? Still that prospect, with a rotten smell.
    It was possible to go to Ukraine only with a project that opened up the prospect, and not with spells, like, you are wrong, we were already there when you were gone, and therefore we march into our chicken coop.
    1. +2
      4 February 2023 16: 26
      There is such. We have nothing to offer right now. And even the BRICS cannot formulate an attractive picture for self-advertising for new members - just a banal loot. And without a beautiful picture, the masses are worse controlled. For America, the idea with their spherical dream in a vacuum is very attractive, for the EU it is a derivative of the American one. China has one belt is not bad. We have attempts at cancer of the swan and pike.
  45. -3
    4 February 2023 15: 43
    Examining the perestroika activities of directors Ryazanov, Govorukhin and Zakharov, one can conclude that these three, reforging the public consciousness for anti-Soviet, were the starting point that led to today's war. Without understanding this, we will continue to ask ourselves the eternal question: "How could this happen? After all, they took Berlin together!" The efforts of this trinity were aimed at a mature audience, and Gazmanov, Talkov and Grebenshchikov were engaged in anti-Soviet agitation among young people.
  46. -2
    4 February 2023 15: 44
    The best way to straighten your brains is to capture the city for 2-3 months, and then give it back. After that, the patriots of Ukraine will not remain there. Or they will cut their own later. Something I doubt that in the same Kherson, the waiting people are now rejoicing in their native power. If someone has not yet been allowed to fertilize in the Donbass.
    1. +4
      4 February 2023 19: 49
      Quote: mmaxx
      Somehow I doubt that in the same Kherson, the waiting people are now rejoicing in their native power

      )))
      An interesting wording, given that Ukrainians usually call lovers of the Russian world “waiters”. Many waiters, by the way, were immediately dumped in Berlin - there is one such author on the site.

      And the inhabitants of Kherson now know exactly what they are fighting for. A few months is enough for the presentation of the Russian world, so to speak, but not enough for the zombification that we saw in the LDNR.
  47. +3
    4 February 2023 16: 08
    It was for 8 years that our propaganda drummed into us that the people there are under the junta and are waiting for us, just like the army does not want to fight them, they were waiting for us in 2014, but for 8 years the people there were zombified and prepared to fight against the Russian Federation.
    Yes, and we did not become that windmill so that countries would reach out to us, seeing how everything is developing and living in our country.
    I think for 50 years or more there will be no normal relations between countries, or do you think all the dead military are clones, no, everyone has a family, relatives and TD who will now hate us, and from our side too. Won Korea is one people, and has long been living separately and at enmity.
  48. +3
    4 February 2023 16: 19
    The question of the article about hataskraine is serious. It and us Russians can be asked more than once with the same righteous anger. USSR, Semibankirshchina, Second Yeltsin coup with a white house, First Chechen, Vote or you will lose, May hut is shown everywhere. Let's answer this question for ourselves, and find out the reason for the hut on the edge of the Ukrainians
  49. +3
    4 February 2023 16: 30
    Well educated, brought up in Soviet traditions, she never complained about Bandera and other disadvantages in their environment.


    Then a rocket flies into the house of a friend from Frankivsk/Kharkiv/Zaporozhye, killing relatives and friends, who also did not favor Bandera.
    And voila! They begin to hate Russia.
    Hmm .. strange, because they must begin to love, right?
    Then a man from Zaporozhye, where he was born and raised and never complained about Bandera they say that he is an occupier, since his hometown belongs to Russia. And he, too, surprisingly, begins to feel far from warm feelings for Russia.
    That's half the country. Their guilt has already been determined in advance - they did not fight Nazism fiercely enough. Or nationalism? Or fascism?
    Doesn't matter. For the average Russian, these words are the same.
    And the most furious accusers will never understand that fighting the state, no matter how flimsy it may look, is a hopeless thing.
    Ask Buzina.
    In conclusion, I would like to note that the fight against Nazism and its highest form - "denazification" remained terra incognita for everyone. What is it, how is it?
    After all, the change of power is not the goal of the operation, Peskov said. But in parallel, the people of Ukraine, who are the same with the Russians, are freed from the power of the Nazis.
    I personally see clear signs of non-binary thinking according to Pelevin among the Russian elite.
    Doublethink is when you hold two opposing views at the same time. As if you believe in mutually exclusive concepts and by force of will you force yourself to live with it. Like "plus is minus", "war is peace" or "freedom is slavery". Grit your teeth and move on. And non-binary thinking this is when it doesn't even occur to you that there is a contradiction in what is happening.

    But enough. The topic is actually incredibly deep and complex. And the article does not cover this topic. And if you are trying, then you should not do it so one-sidedly.
    1. -5
      4 February 2023 20: 08
      And how should feel those whose children burned in Odessa in Odessa, or who died from rockets in Donetsk, here is a direct causal relationship. Shells, rockets, burning people were first in 2014, do you think everyone in Ukraine hates Russia, or are there others?
      1. 0
        5 February 2023 07: 00
        They hate everything, dada with Russian passports. They live at the expense of Russia and immediately shit and yell songs in Ukrainian, shout glory to Ukraine, only after the beating of the muzzle calm down!
  50. -8
    4 February 2023 17: 24
    There is nothing new under the sun! Now there is a continuation of the war of the Latin West against Orthodoxy. True, in the beginning they still skillfully disguised themselves as Christians, but now it has become clear to everyone that they are just pagan Satanists. Ukrainians are a mythological people, fooled Russians who sold their souls to Satan for their coming out patriotism. Ukraine above all! Including God. Until Russia in its mass falls to its knees with tears of pardon for all its sins, they will torment us and bite off piece by piece.
  51. -5
    4 February 2023 19: 51
    Russia is returning to itself.

    Russia comes back
    Let, as always,
    And ugly and bloody.
    Through the stockade
    crosses
    In damp earth.
    Through
    failure,
    betrayal,
    failures.
    Russia comes back
    Vomiting hysterically
    The poison of someone else's poison,
    And again the question
    - "Which side are you on?"
    Who accepted the gift of the enemy,
    - Already
    won't be right!
    Russia comes back to you
    AND CONNECTION OF TIMES
    comes into its own,
    Those,
    who,
    died for centuries on the Dnieper,
    Can't win now
    do not allow!

    Chords:
    Am, G, Am, G, Am, Dm, F, E


    Enemies of Russia.

    We drove Adik to suicide,
    And Boni abandoned the army and fled,
    Here we have front gardens made of clubs,
    Well, in the hearts there is molten metal.

    The custom of a transgender European woman,
    To rake the Russians out once in a century,
    And our gentle little sparrows,
    Their corpses' eyes began to peck again.

    Well, to all those who sold themselves for “cowards”,
    To whom Mazepa is an ideal of honor,
    Of course, we have mercy for those who surrender,
    But for treason - only a tribunal!

    Fly on - "birds of passage"
    So far away that we won't meet you,
    And don’t forget to take anti-emetic,
    In Canada, unclogging the toilet.

    History does not teach us enemies of Russia!
    And apparently they are no longer given the opportunity to understand,
    What if they came close to us in a bunch,
    - You still have to swallow horseradish!
  52. 0
    4 February 2023 20: 02
    I would give a minus to the article for the title photo ala Sumeria
    For what purpose did the author insert the photoshopped image?!
    There is no Hitler in the original photo
    the fact that in Sumeria the Nazis are in power and everyone knows for what purpose they come up with unnecessary things?!
  53. +4
    4 February 2023 20: 06
    Quote from Deon59
    European happiness. Why Holland does not have many natural resources, but it is richer than Russia, the minimum wage starts at 11 euros per hour, agriculture is many times more efficient than ours. Why are their products cheaper? Maybe take Switzerland in comparison. Yes, our opportunity to work in Europe, half the country would have fled. And so many young people have already left.


    1. Holland has a lot of gas. Per capita it is many times larger than Russia.
    2. The port of Rotterdam is half of all European imports.
    3.Amsterdam - diamond processing and exchange. All the diamonds of Yakutia are bought there
    4. Agriculture - it’s not just tulips and cows
  54. +4
    4 February 2023 20: 28
    )))
    What funny questions and what funny answers. What are “they” fighting for? How can you dislike Putin’s people so much?

    Impossible to understand.
  55. +3
    4 February 2023 20: 49
    Vova got the hang of it with multi-steps “we were deceived again” P. He’s not a genius at all, he’s just a smart guy who decided from the oligarchs.
  56. +1
    4 February 2023 21: 58
    Will Ukrainian citizens continue to obediently go to the slaughter, convincing themselves that they are fighting for a bright future for their children? Don't think. Sooner rather than later, insight will come, if it hasn’t already
    You can write whatever you want, only about a year and a half ago on one of the patriotic resources there was a sad, but well-reasoned article of a patriotic nature. It talked about the loss of the idea of ​​the Russian world in Ukraine and not only there. At the moment, the facts indicate that this problem has only worsened and in this light the author’s optimism is not entirely understandable.
  57. The comment was deleted.
    1. +2
      5 February 2023 09: 33
      Quote: Ivan_91

      It would be more correct to write how many people still need to be accommodated...

      It would be more correct to write, as Pushkin wrote exactly 200 years ago: “they need to be cut or sheared”

      Without lying hypocrisy.
      When in October 1993 you watched on TV how tanks were hammering at the All-Russian Congress of People's Deputies, was it interesting?
      And now they are hammering at the observers and their children.....
      Yesterday people had their hair cut, today they are cutting them.... Everything is fair, this is a direct consequence of the events of 1993 and the collapse of the USSR. Moreover, this is a continuation of the process of decay.
  58. -3
    5 February 2023 00: 20
    Everything is correct, everything is true, but the child is not ours. What am I talking about? And besides, it doesn’t hurt that many factories, schools, and hospitals were built in our country after Yeltsin. And further. All this talk about fraternal peoples has never been anything more than talk. For some reason, we were all fraternal peoples. For example, “brotherly people of Angola”, “brotherly people of Cuba”, “brotherly people of Vietnam”, etc. And the only brothers are those who share a mother and father. Everything else is slogans, nothing more.
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  61. +1
    5 February 2023 06: 58
    Baby talk, we underestimated the enemy, ha, funny. Having defeated the V.S. with such spectators, they turned the army into an appendage of inspectors from headquarters, and you won’t find an inspector in the field! They removed the cliffs, the trays, the flames from the mouth, oh we can’t, because we didn’t know. For all this, again, with the blood of the boys. We're fed up, our troops aren't learning anything, there's not enough Afghanistan, not enough Chechnya, not enough Africa. One good thing is that the West is even cooler than ours!
  62. +3
    5 February 2023 09: 42
    I'm just amazed...Everything is unexpected. So it was necessary to monitor at least social networks in order to understand what is really happening and how it is happening on the outskirts. And what were they even hoping for, huh? There, for the last 10 years, they have been destroying reasonable people, instilling heresy in the youth, stuffing them with something, and the GDP has been running around with its Minsks. Did you get there? Why do people who don’t even live next door to the outskirts already knew and understood what was wrong with the outskirts and how, but the leadership of the Russian Federation knew nothing and had no idea?
  63. +1
    5 February 2023 13: 05
    I read comments that say that we ourselves are to blame, we didn’t pay attention, we didn’t do the work, we didn’t monitor... But we had enough of our own internal problems. There are more than enough of them now. And Barkashov’s skinheads also walked around, shouting “Glory to Russia.” Now they have already been forgotten about. And “the house is on the edge” is also a common position among us. And much more. However, we still did not become like that. But Ukrainians have become what they have become.
    And for those who believe that it is our own fault that Ukraine has become like this, I advise you to watch the little old television play “Arkady Raikin. Comradely Court.” I won't provide a link. Whoever wants it will find it himself.
  64. +1
    5 February 2023 18: 02
    All the words in the article are correct, but there is not a single word about what needs to be done for the civil war to end today, tomorrow, who is the source of this disaster, full name and why the government is not on the side of the people.
    1. 0
      6 February 2023 17: 04
      Quote: Vlad Gor
      All the words in the article are correct, but there is not a single word about what needs to be done for the civil war to end today, tomorrow, who is the source of this disaster, full name and why the government is not on the side of the people.


      Anything could happen. In October 1993, tanks were used to pummel the All-Russian Congress of People's Deputies, and people watched with interest on TV as these deputies were pummeled. Another example; in March 1996, the State Duma of the Russian Federation recognized the Belovezhsky Treaty as illegal and Yeltsin as a criminal. And the people recognized him as President 2 times. As for what needs to be done, the people have been told many times. Only the idealists - fighters for people's happiness - are over. BE!
      And it was the turn of the deputies and others to watch on TV as the people themselves hammered away. Maybe this is homespun folk happiness, to let each other’s guts out, and to tear off heads and balls with shell fragments? Who knows.....
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  66. +3
    5 February 2023 21: 57
    What claims can there be against the people of Ukraine if they never existed for the Russian Federation? And I’m not talking about “Lenin invented the Ukrainians.” Everywhere and always, the Kremlin tried to deal not with people, but with “counterparties” convenient for itself, a bunch of bosses or, preferably, one main boss. And let him be a “thief, a bandit, etc.,” this is even a plus - it’s easier to find a common language with someone like that, easier to “solve things” (you can bribe someone like that, and there’s always a truckload of dirt on him). And in general he is spiritually close. And working with people is beneath their dignity. Today you are being nice to the Ukrainian people, but tomorrow what will you have to do with the Russians?

    Everyone remembers about Nuland cookies. Question: who, without Google, will remember the name of our ambassador in Kyiv, who should have been interrupting Nuland’s cookies with his Russian gingerbread? I'm sure not many. His name was Zurabov, and since 2009 he had not only not worked with the people, he even alienated the local elites with his extreme arrogance. How did the Kremlin assess his complete failure in the most important area, which led to monstrous consequences? But it’s normal, he remained an ambassador right up to 2016.

    year 2014. Donetsk and Lugansk (and not only them) start an uprising, seize administrations, raise Russian flags (Russian, not LPR and DPR!), troops go over to their side, everything is as Vladimir Ponomarenko would like in 2022. And what does the Kremlin answer? "Don't hold a referendum." Crimea can do it, but you can’t, you are wrong. They didn’t listen, they carried me off. What about the Kremlin? “Integrate back into Ukraine, through you we will influence the politics of Kyiv.” Fortunately, Kyiv also did not need such happiness. And then the “People’s Republics” waited for 8 years of shelling, poverty and “cellars”.

    And now Mr. Ponomarenko expects that in 2022 there will be idiots who will repeat the mistake of 2014. The funny thing is, there are. They believed in the “Russia is here forever” posters. Some believed right up to the straightening of the front, tanks with blue and yellow flags under the windows and an invitation to the SBU to talk about responsibility for high treason.

    But the traitor, according to Mr. Ponomarenko, is still an aunt from Ivano-Frankivsk.
  67. -1
    6 February 2023 04: 31
    But what about this?
    August 19, 1991 in Moscow Putsch.
    On August 24, 1991, the Supreme Council of the Ukrainian SSR adopted the “Act of Proclamation of Independence of Ukraine.”
    What can you demand from Ukrainians when not everything is reliable themselves?
  68. 0
    6 February 2023 09: 15
    But even then, many in Ukraine understood that no one was going to take anyone to any Europe.... then maybe they weren’t going to, but now they will take them. And we helped with this...and they will rebuild everything quickly (at our expense) and raise social services many times better than ours. Bravo again, put things in order)
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  70. 0
    10 February 2023 11: 54
    Thank you for the article! As it turned out, thinking can be fucked up in a very short time. Until recently, round dances were performed together!
  71. 0
    10 February 2023 18: 22
    I think you are also in captivity of illusion. Nobody will see a damn thing, they won’t give it to them. By the way, we do too.
  72. 0
    13 February 2023 09: 47
    And it doesn’t occur to anyone that a whole generation of people grew up in Ukraine, for whom this territory is their homeland, just as Russia is for Russians. They don't know anything else. If you look at the demographic portrait of Ukraine, more than half of the active population under 48 years of age perceives Ukraine as their own Motherland, and not as a stub of the USSR. Hence the perseverance and perseverance in battle, as well as strong immunity to Russian propaganda. It seems to me that those at the top don’t quite understand what’s going on in the minds of Ukrainians. They are no longer Russian. Say thank you to the Soviet party officials, and they were first-class masters in this matter, it was they who, as if by magic, literally in a couple of years filled the entire ideological space instead of red flags with yellow and blue, instead of pioneers with scouts, etc. and so on.
  73. 0
    13 February 2023 15: 41
    Haters of Russia hate her, first of all, for her living power of spirit and natural wealth, but such a low feeling cannot give rise to heroism and will only give rise to decay. Despite all the shortcomings of Russia, she will emerge victorious from all trials, because selflessness lives in her.