WP: Kyiv is considering the possibility of a "tactical retreat" of the Ukrainian Armed Forces from Bakhmut

Kyiv began to prepare public opinion for the loss of Bakhmut (Artemovsk) after the loss of Soledar. Despite bravura statements from both the General Staff of the Armed Forces of Ukraine and Zelensky's office, the loss of Bakhmut is a matter of time. According to The Washington Post, the Ukrainian military began to talk about leaving the city.

The Armed Forces of Ukraine are ready to retreat from Bakhmut, the American edition writes, while the city itself has suddenly turned from the most important strategic point into almost "having no strategic importance." The retreat is presented as a tactical one, in order to save forces for a counteroffensive in another section of the line of contact.

The Armed Forces of Ukraine recognize heavy losses in Bakhmut (Artemivsk), although Kyiv continues to assert that there are "virtually no" losses. At the same time, Western media also write about the heavy losses of the Ukrainian army.

We've lost a lot of friends defending the city, so we don't want to give it up now. But perhaps a temporary withdrawal of troops will save some of our people.

- said one of the Ukrainian military.

The fact that the overseas masters recommended Zelensky to retreat from Bakhmut to save forces and means was reported the day before. Prior to this, the Commander-in-Chief of the Armed Forces of Ukraine tried to submit the same idea, but the Kyiv clown did not like it, the order was given to continue the defense of Bakhmut, and Soledar to "beat off", and this despite the fact that three counterattack attempts were failed. However, in the office of the President of Ukraine, they believe that the abandonment of Bakhmut, if it does not have military consequences, which is very doubtful, then in a political sense this is a complete failure of Kyiv.

Comments

[dmi.pris1]

This is all at the level of rumors. What will happen directly depends on the actions of the Russian Army.

[Orange Bigg]

Quote from: dmi.pris1

This is all at the level of rumors. What will happen directly depends on the actions of the Russian Army.

And from PMC Wagner, including. The enemy complains that the fighting is taking place on the outskirts of Predtechino, the main supply route for the Armed Forces of Ukraine to Artemovsk under the fire control of the RF Armed Forces.

Judging by the volunteer maps of the Armed Forces of Ukraine and the maps of a number of Western military publics, our fighters broke through the defense south of Bakhmut and deeply wedged into the defense of the Armed Forces of Ukraine. If the red (Russian) color is true, then from the line of contact to Chasy Yar, the main supply base for the Bakhmut garrison of the Armed Forces of Ukraine, there are 7-10 km left, and the road from Konstantinovka, another logistics center of the ukrovermacht, is clearly under our strict fire control.
This information is consistent with the summary (for January 14) of a well-known US analytical institute that studies military conflicts. Its experts write: “The fighters of the Wagner group refuse frontal attacks on Bakhmut and instead try to surround the city. Russian forces have attacked in the direction of Dyleyevka (15km southwest of Bakhmut) and that Wagner Group fighters have carried out attacks near Kleshcheyevka and also in the direction of Predtechino (15km southwest of Bakhmut) in an attempt to cut off a section of the motorway H-32 between Bakhmut and Konstantinovka.

https://svpressa.ru/war21/article/358822/

[dmi.pris1]

I no longer separate the actions of the "orchestra" from the units of the Army. They are doing a common thing. But the Wagnerites are certainly great.

[Shurik70]

But the very fact of preparing a retreat is not encouraging.
This means that the enemy command is learning not only to "stand as an indestructible wall"

[dmi.pris1]

Yes, there is no fact of preparing a retreat. They overtook everything there, from "terobormots" to ukromobilny. All this is at the level of rumors and journalists from a Washington newspaper

[Alexander Salenko]

They have their own experience, they didn’t stand as an indestructible wall in Debaltseve and began to withdraw troops, but everything turned out badly when the only road was shot through, and then it was cut and the vushniks got out with chigirs.

[Myths]

In this situation, Wagner is competently acting, they don’t have to go head-on and take the city. Yes, and after Soledar, with such losses in the Armed Forces, they understand that the resource is not eternal and cannot be replaced by mercenaries, now they are urgently gathering new ones in the front ranks all over.
Plus:

The mercenary Ryan O'Leary publishes hysterical messages on Twitter almost every 10 minutes, where he accuses the command of the Armed Forces of Ukraine and the political leadership of Ukraine of the death of soldiers of the Ukrainian army, the lack of supplies and weapons...
"We're all going to die if things don't change," the mercenary scribbles hysterically.

Apparently, in Artemovsk and the vicinity of Soledar, the situation with the militants of the Armed Forces of Ukraine is very bad. 

[Vyacheslav57]

This is all at the level of rumors. What will happen directly depends on the actions of the Russian Army.

I agree with you, but the ground is being prepared. And to make it not so offensive, they announced a temporary retreat.

[Ded60]

That's just the wording let us down! Not a retreat, but a "negative offensive" or something like that before they flashed

[Maz]

Let me remind you of a last name...
ALEXANDER IVANOVICH MARINESKO. Born January 15, 1913.

As the commander of the S-13 submarine, on January 30, 1945, the “attack of the century” sent the leader of the Nazi German navy “Wilhelm Gustloff” to the bottom, as a result of which, according to various estimates, up to 10000 Nazis died.

So. We can repeat. And we have Marineski.

[seamen2]

Illiterate opus. however, like this *we can repeat*, *on Berlin* and other ............. pasted on *trophies*.

[Alexander Salenko]

With the leader of the navy, you turned down, to put it mildly. Watch a video in Taktik-Media with Miroslav Morozov on this topic.

[private person]

the abandonment of Bakhmut, if it does not have military consequences, which is very doubtful, then in the political sense this is a complete failure of Kyiv.

Well, ours didn’t leave Kherson without even destroying it or anything, but first they accepted it into Russia. And this Bakhmut (Artyomovsk) has already been half destroyed, the targets have been shot and marked on maps for further shelling.

[Vend]

Let them immediately consider the option of a tactical retreat to Lvov. Our kids will have less worries.

[Luka Nord]

We've lost a lot of friends defending the city, so we don't want to give it up now. But perhaps a temporary withdrawal of troops will save some of our people.

Denazification heh heh What are you Ukrainians yyy and sulyaks *?
WEET!!! Well, in short, do not miss the bastards !!
So we think..

[Terenin]

Quote from Luka Nord

We've lost a lot of friends defending the city, so we don't want to give it up now. But perhaps a temporary withdrawal of troops will save some of our people.

Denazification heh heh What are you Ukrainians yyy and sulyaks *?
WEET!!! Well, in short, do not miss the bastards !!
So we think..

The Armed Forces of Ukraine have found a new excuse for themselves. They say we are handing over our points because of the fact that we would not endanger our mercenary friends from the smelly USA and other countries.
Oh, then ..., we would ..., they would ...

[rocket757]

Excuses are excuses, they hold on and not everyone makes the right choice, in our understanding.
It won't be easy, no way. They have territories, they have reserves, they will find / rake out everything they have ... Western guardians / owners will be engaged in the supply and preparation of the Armed Forces of Ukraine.
Now it's a matter of time, practically a RACE, who will win whom ... we will smash them to pieces or the West will prepare, equip a new army.
Maybe it will not be very motivated, worse prepared, but it's all a matter of TIME !!! and nested attendants, of course.
In general, time will tell who wins.

[Lionnvrsk]

Quote: rocket757

everything is a matter of TIME!!!

Which we have less and less. And while we have a strategic initiative, in general, we cannot slow down. But it rests on the shoulders of the guys from the front ... and they are also not made of iron.

[topol717]

Quote: LIONnvrsk

And as long as we have a strategic initiative in general, we must not slow down.

What is the initiative??? Since October, Soledar has been liberated. For 3 months 1 small town. And the Ukrainians during this time began to prepare a new army. They receive tanks, aircraft, helicopters and carry out rearmament and retraining. By March, the Ukrainians will gather a dozen brigades and there will be a new "regrouping", which will require new mobilization and so on, in a word, there will be the second part.

[Paul Siebert]

Quote: LIONnvrsk

Quote: rocket757

everything is a matter of TIME!!!

Which we have less and less. And while we have a strategic initiative, in general, we cannot slow down. But it rests on the shoulders of the guys from the front ... and they are also not made of iron.

And so far I do not see any initiatives from our General Staff ...
Prigozhin takes the initiative with his Wagner.
And the General Staff delivers missile strikes, as it has done more than once ...
And there were no movements on the ground, and no.
Positional fights.
Maybe it's time?..

[rocket757]

The "front end" is also held due to the fact that it is supported from behind as necessary ...
We do not have everything yet, as it is necessary, we hope it will go better further.

[isv000]

They blocked it from three sides, now it would be nice to plow the fourth and burn it regularly, disinfect it, so to speak ...

[former soldier]

We are only "for"! Let them leave Artyomovsk and, in general, the Donbass.

[YES UZH]

Leasing Artyomovsk for "temporary use" will not save404, the tasks of the NWO will be completed. Get out while you are alive.

[voice of reason]

And they have a choice: either a cauldron, which they can no longer deny as Soledarsky. Or drape to Slavyansk and Kramatorsk. Here everything was tied to rocades, and the cut rocade is no longer a rocade. and with Seversk further 100 percent "tactical retreat" or a boiler. He's just asking for it in the corner...
Moreover, the captured rocades instantly begin to work for us. And the closer the LBS is to the rocade, the more difficult it is for the enemy who does not have it ....

[Lech from Android.]

You can’t take a word for rumors ... especially if they are spread by Ukronats.
In the meantime, we are following the dynamics of events and analyzing the operation to capture Soledar ... there was a very interesting course of hostilities. It seems that our generals took up their minds ... and immediately the result appeared.

[rocket757]

Like someone is trying to explain to everyone that "musicians", PMCs, are troops, troops, troops and no one else and nothing ... sheer nonsense.
Yes, "musicians" and other similar units, excellent assault infantry, all the more they have been strengthened, different, they have given and act clearly, harmoniously !!! But they are only a part of everything else!!!
In this situation, at the moment, this plays an important role, but, the Armed Forces of the state, this is a huge, complex complex, which can be managed, provided, etc., etc., only by a state, specialized structure!
Only in this way, only together, we will win

[Bayun]

a huge plus for PMCs is the SOLUTION of combat missions at the tactical level, without the military bureaucracy of the "strategic" and even "political" levels.

Russia is on the way to a PRIVATE state. And it's good if the King is the Master, and not a group of citizens - as it is now - accountable to another group of citizens, a kind of "unknown fathers."

[kot711]

if the King is the owner,
Interesting, and who do you read there? And why not Amperator?

[Keer]

it's good if the King is the owner

And who is the king? There were four Vladimirs in Rus' - one the Great, the other with a hat, the third burry, and the fourth, at all, had nothing to do with it.

[poquello]

Quote: rocket757

someone is trying to explain to everyone that "musicians", PMCs, are troops, troops, troops and no one else, and nothing else ... sheer nonsense.

this is someone short-sighted, PMCs, by definition, unlike the troops, are not a state-owned company, and it is in this form that they are needed in the future

[rocket757]

A strong state, a strong centralized power, will not leave anyone and nothing without attention that has some kind of significance and power. Only under control.
They can cooperate, but on their own, never in any way.

[poquello]

Quote: rocket757

A strong state, a strong centralized power, will not leave anyone and nothing without attention that has some kind of significance and power. Only under control.
They can cooperate, but on their own, never in any way.

) and even the blackquote turns out to be where the US government and services need it, probably by itself

[rocket757]

They are contracted by state offices, these are the most profitable in a row.
If there are contracts on the side, this is a trifle compared to everything else.
I don't think that we will be reinventing the wheel... and no one will, as soon as everything is formed and strengthened.
They will not be driven under the epaulettes, but they will be kept nearby, that's the only way.

[Bingo]

With a show of business, putting several brigades in Soledar and Artemovsk is a tactic for maintaining reserves, yes.
By the way, yesterday there was a "march of widows" in Kyiv - and they are strenuously hushing up that they never once believe the cries about "no losses"

[falx]

so far only rumors.
as for me, let them keep it and burn their reserves there.

I dare to suggest that greens and co will cling to this unfortunate Bakhmut / Artemovsk until the 20th, until the next meeting of sponsors. and on the 21st they will merge.

[tralflot1832]

Why, our media PR tools, do not take advantage of the current situation. It is necessary to show the transfer of the bodies of the Armed Forces of Ukraine from Soledar on all channels, with an open tailgate. Yes, there are not twenty thousand of them, as some say, but there will definitely be a couple of thousand. Were they shown frozen in their last convulsions? The first channels have been annoying for a long time. It is clearly seen that the policy of the leadership of state television on weekends starting from Friday. Are they trying to compare with the Americans. Yes, those two world wars did not touch their territories. The war is already on our territories. Television has taken a back seat to the Internet.

[rocket757]

And where do people get the information, the one that the mainstream media is clamping down on???
Anywhere, which, in fact, is the World Wide Web.
It is very wrong that the people do not believe the mainstream media, at least to a very limited extent ...
The upper ones do not want to understand, to accept that they are using OUR MONEY, OUR TAXES, mediocrity and parasites, whom, in the mass, the people not only do not want to listen, they also hate ...
In general, the top and their servants live for themselves, for their own sake, at the expense of everyone else !!! This kind of good never ended.

[tralflot1832]

My personal opinion is that it is necessary to drive from the leading positions of the All-Russian State Television and Radio Broadcasting Company. We are on the threshold of a big boom.

[rocket757]

Unfortunately, tm system errors are everywhere ....
Those who stick to state money will not give it up so easily and he will broadcast, write, as long as the boss is pleasant !!!
And the truth that exists now is often very bitter!!! And which of the bosses loves this, especially when they poured oil in their ears for years !!!
In general, it will not resolve itself, there it is necessary to drive, break and build a completely new one.
It seems to be at the wrong time, BUT, that is, it brings a lot of harm, and to everyone, to one degree or another.
By the way, smart bosses understand this very well, they don’t live in a vacuum ... but they seem to be satisfied with a lot, but they don’t even want to touch something, it’s not good for health, THE SYSTEM DOES NOT FORGIVE THIS!

[Bayun]

Where there are private armies, there will also be a private state...

[dmi.pris1]

Let them take their dead. The footage from Soledar shows one ugly thing in my opinion. They lie side by side .. and without shoes. They took them off the bodies? I heard about the excellent quality of their berets. But why go down like that? for the army

[Sergey Aleksandrovich]

I was always amazed at the logic that a dead enemy has more rights than his own fighter. If the enemy is killed, defeated, then what rights can he have for weapons, ammunition and uniforms? And I don’t understand at all why the article for looting in the Soviet interpretation was returned six months ago. The benefits of socialism are no longer there, useful experience is not adopted from there, but with maniacal persistence, all the rubbish from the past returns to the present.

[svp67]

Quote: Sergey Alexandrovich

And I don’t understand at all why the article for looting in the Soviet interpretation was returned six months ago.

Yes, because some have too "long and illegible hands", they also take away from civilians, and this has always corrupted the army

[Sergey Aleksandrovich]

And such illegibility is no less striking. How do you manage to confuse the robbery of the civilian population with the ammunition of the enemy defeated on the battlefield.
And yes, special thanks for a significant minus, you are our illegible, with marshal's shoulder straps.

[svp67]

Quote: Sergey Alexandrovich

And yes, special thanks for a significant minus, you are our illegible, with marshal's shoulder straps.

Yes please, do you need more? I can "submit" even more weightily, it's not difficult for me

Quote: Sergey Alexandrovich

How do you manage to confuse the robbery of the civilian population with the ammunition of the enemy defeated on the battlefield.

Before that, you said that you read the introduced article for looting, apparently you didn’t read it well
Criminal Code Article 356.1. Marauding
(introduced by the Federal Law from 24.09.2022 N 365-FZ)
1. Looting, that is, committed with a mercenary purpose during martial law, in wartime or in conditions of an armed conflict or combat operations, and not related to necessity illegal gratuitous seizure and (or) conversion in favor of the guilty person or other persons of another's property (including property located with the dead or wounded, civilian property)

It's one thing when you need to put on a shod fighter (forced necessity) and quite another when they drag TVs and other personal property of citizens ... but, alas, there were such cases.

[Sergey Aleksandrovich]

You, as it were, had a reference to the robbery of civilians that had nothing to do with the quote.
Protecting the corpses of the enemy is a worthy task in your opinion for the criminal code?
Just this strange wording was withdrawn after the collapse of the USSR. For what purpose did they return the protection of ammunition on defeated enemies, can you explain?
Only today the "Wagnerian" was interviewed, so he had a trophy Ukrov knife.
According to your "Soviet" interpretation of looting, he is a criminal, because the seizure of a knife is not connected with forced necessity. So you will strangle your own, with the best, and there will be no one to fight, but "your morality" will be at its best.
How are you better than a parquet general with your own principles?

[svp67]

Quote: Sergey Alexandrovich

Protecting the corpses of the enemy is a worthy task in your opinion for the criminal code?

These are generally accepted world rules.
Looting - in international law - a war crime of an international nature, expressed:
- in the abduction on the battlefield of things that are with the dead and wounded;
- in the robbery of the inhabitants of the enemy territory.

Quote: Sergey Alexandrovich

According to your "Soviet" interpretation of looting, he is a criminal,

You have a strange idea of ​​​​international law

Quote: Sergey Alexandrovich

for the withdrawal of the knife is not connected with forced necessity.

Alas, you are wrong here. The knife, in this case, is not "property", but "weapon", so that all your "angry tirades" are past, since the knife is a "war trophy"

[Sergey Aleksandrovich]

There is no international law, especially now. All international law is now against us.
To justify the protection of property on enemy corpses with the help of international law is certainly strong! Keep it up, let's go far!
I considered and continue to consider the "Soviet" interpretation of looting on the battlefield, to protect property on the corpses of the enemy, the strongest demoralizing factor for the army. Indirectly, it is drummed into each private that the enemy corpse has more rights than himself, while he himself turns out to be nobody.
The very existence of a dispute about an enemy knife as a trophy, or not, just says that the article for looting on the battlefield is game and absurdity. An article that leaves room for arbitrariness and humiliation.
It may very well be that the return of the article for looting in the "Soviet" interpretation led to the strongest demoralization of the army, became one of the factors of failures at the front in the second half of 2022.

[svp67]

Quote: Sergey Alexandrovich

I considered and continue to consider the "Soviet" interpretation of looting on the battlefield, to protect property on the corpses of the enemy, the strongest demoralizing factor for the army.

Looting - what is that "rust", it corrodes the army.

Quote: Sergey Alexandrovich

The very existence of a dispute about an enemy knife as a trophy, or not,

And there is no dispute, everything has its legal basis ...

Quote: Sergey Alexandrovich

It may very well be that the return of the article for looting in the "Soviet" interpretation led to the strongest demoralization of the army,

Stupidity ... Failures in the fall of 2022 are associated with an insufficient number of forces involved in conducting NMD and the lack of necessary reserves

[voice of reason]

While you will be asking global questions about the production of shoes, why not use trophy ones at the LBS now? Maybe not to take their first-aid kits, but to ask questions to our manufacturers and everything else is the same? Yes, every second in the marauder drives on the front end. so even a special bag-suspension is called "marauder"

[svp67]

Quote from: dmi.pris1

I heard about the excellent quality of their berets. But why go down like that?

And what to wear if your own has already fallen apart and asks for "porridge"?

[former soldier]

On the footage from Soledar, one thing is visible, in my opinion, ugly. They lie side by side .. and without shoes. Have they taken them off the bodies?

There on video and without trousers there is. So what ? We have no idea where or how they were dragged into a row. And most importantly: who dragged them to the basement? Most likely theirs.

[Sergey Aleksandrovich]

Yes, that's not the point at all. A former beauty employee in the war is also looking for high morals, as in the institute for noble maidens, and here the shoes were taken off the enemy, a mess.

[Serge9901]

After a long demagogy - the exact phrase. Solidarity.

[Ivanushka Ivanov]

The clown does not solve anything serious at all. The Americans are forbidden to retreat. They have repeatedly promoted the thesis "to the last Ukrainian." And they will not allow Bakhmut to give.
And the fact that something like this pops up in the press is an American showroom, where everyone has their own role: bad, good, their own, strangers, smart, idiots (by the way, Biden often plays the role of an idiot), evil, kind, doves, hawks, etc. And yes, this is a very primitive show. It's a pity we don't have good analysts at the top, who could use these "products" to unravel the true state of affairs of the pintossni.

At the moment, the enemy's weak link is the economy. If we want to stop this war on terms acceptable to us, we must do and do so that Europe is as bad as possible. Pressure and money from Europe are no longer useful to America. It puts pressure on the dollar. It was not for this that the Pintos pumped up Europe and the whole world with money and production. Not to have it all come back to America. They themselves can print dollars if they need it (which they did not so long ago on an industrial scale). Ideally, provoke a tsunami of reverse dollars, under which the US economy will be buried.

As for military assistance to the Ukrainians from the West, it will not run out. This is also a show without end. It seems that everything is over ... Then, as if by chance, "realizing all the importance" ... some kind of Finland will throw in, then Denmark. Then, looking at this, "the conscience wakes up" among the Italians, and so on and so forth.

[rocket757]

Kyiv began to prepare public opinion for the loss of Bakhmut (Artemovsk)

. Someone put something to his nose, he realized that it was time to go ...
What's next?
Events are already proceeding according to their plan, we only need to make the appropriate efforts, and it will continue as it should.

[Pravodel]

In Kyiv, consider the possibility of "tactical retreat"

There is nothing to retreat. You need to raise your hands and surrender one by one and the crowd, in order !!!

[urik62]

Something about Akhmat is neither heard nor spirited, are they still there?

[Tusv]

There is enough work for everyone. The Orchestra works in Bakhmut and Soledar. To the north of the landing, to the south of the motorized rifle. Ros guard everywhere

[YOUR]

The fact that the overseas masters recommended Zelensky to retreat from Bakhmut to save forces and means was reported the day before.

Before that, reinforcements were dragged from everywhere. They themselves say if they surrender, they will start misunderstandings inside.
And suddenly.
The Wagnerites unexpectedly broke through the defenses from the north. Blocked the supply of ammunition to the approach of reinforcements. Ordinary Armed Forces soldiers surrender in droves, the nationalists fight to the last, but who will engage in open battle with them is jammed with tanks with grenade launchers.

https://ok.ru/video/4307604605568.

[RED_ICE]

The main thing is that they suddenly for us do not launch a major offensive in another sector, as was the case in the Kharkov region

[voice of reason]

There are no sudden prepared attacks. They need resources and reserves. as well as parts of the second third echelon. And all of a sudden, it can only turn out to be a senseless spurt for the sake of PR.

[Jackyun]

There is something like this now: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w9tB1DP1dnM

[svp67]

turned into almost "non-strategic"

Well, yes, well, yes ... it's just a "gateway" to the Kramatorsk-Slavic agglomeration

[gurzuf]

Quote from: dmi.pris1

Taken off the phone?

That's why so? They themselves composed, they themselves believed in what was composed, they themselves were indignant ...

[Mavrikiy]

The retreat is presented as tactical, to save forces for a counteroffensive in another section of the line of contact.

When downhill, it will quickly develop into a strategic one.

We've lost a lot of friends defending the city, so we don't want to give it up now. But probably, temporary withdrawal of troops will save some of our people
- said one of the Ukrainian military.

Deep thought. Looks like I've been thinking about it for a long time. The question is, how long will it save?

[Fizik13]

Quote from: dmi.pris1

It's all hearsay. What will happen directly depends on the actions of the Russian Army.

The keywords for the West are the “tactical retreat” of the Ukrainian Armed Forces units from Bakhmut, and then the West hides everything else.

[uralant]

What heroes do you have, what idols do you fight according to the testament of teachers. But at least one of them had a rank of corporal, he sniffed the trenches, unlike this drug commander, but there was nothing to be done, it was necessary to straighten the front line, systematically and strictly. But no, so give him a saber in his rutsu, put a cocked hat on his head and go ahead, through the Kakhovka dam of the "aggressor" to win!