Military Review

The end of the Chinese miracle

152
The end of the Chinese miracle

The Chinese economy is getting worse. China's export-based development model, the "world factory" and embedded in the overall system of capitalism, is in crisis. Therefore, China, like the whole world, is waiting for big changes.


"World Factory"


Since Deng Xiaoping colluded with the US in 1979, China has been building "socialism with Chinese characteristics." What did it mean to be included in the capitalist system while maintaining the power of the Chinese Communist Party. Beijing has received great benefits: access to Western technology and capital, in some respects followed the path of Japan, but on a larger scale. China has become the "world's factory". England returned Hong Kong, Portugal - Macau. Rapprochement with Taiwan began: "One country - two systems." The Chinese took advantage of the collapse of the USSR in order to obtain advanced and breakthrough technologies from Russia and Ukraine, and for economic penetration into Central Asia.

At first, China supplied the cheapest possible products, using almost gratuitous labor resources. Capturing the markets of Asia, Africa, Latin America, the former USSR and even parts of Europe. Then the model began to change to the export of quality products: electronics, cars, ships, high-speed trains, military products, etc. For example, in Russia, after a hard break with the West in 2022 and part of the East (Japan, South Korea), the only an alternative to our barely alive auto industry is Chinese products. Moreover, its quality has increased markedly since the 1990s, when “Chinese” meant cheap and miserable.

This allowed China to become the No. 2 economic superpower, catching up and even overtaking America in places. On the basis of Western and Soviet technologies, the Celestial Empire has created a powerful and advanced armed forces. In particular, the Chinese fleet has almost caught up with the American fleet in terms of the number of pennants and large ships. Beijing repeated almost all Soviet (Russian) achievements in space.

The crisis of capitalism


The problem is that Chinese civilization, like later Russian civilization, having adopted the Western project of development (capitalism) and building a consumer society, fell into a trap, a dead end. In 2008, the export-oriented model collapsed. The Chinese leadership had to urgently figure out what to do next.

We decided to reorient our economy to domestic consumption, replacing the lost exports with it. Hence the construction of magnificent highways going nowhere, huge, almost empty cities, and many other domestic infrastructure projects. The sharp rise of the Chinese middle class, the elimination of poverty. "Middle class society".

But in order to create domestic demand, it was necessary to rapidly pump the economy with cheap and unsecured loans. Which quickly turned China into the second power in the world in terms of debt. In fact, the Chinese followed in the footsteps of the Americans. However, America could afford a gigantic debt, as it exchanged cut paper (dollars) for all the resources of the world (real), backing this up with the military might of the only remaining superpower. Everyone who tried to somehow hint at this injustice was immediately subjected to "humanitarian" bombardments in the name of democracy and freedom.

Even before the covid panic, China's debt was simply enormous: according to various estimates, from 300 to over 800% of GDP. This debt cannot be repaid. And the economy continued and continues to slow down. The main reason for the decline in exports, the driving force behind the Chinese economy, is a drop in demand in the US and EU countries for Chinese goods due to a general economic slowdown. This is the global crisis of capitalism.

Chinese global project


Under the current global capitalist model, Beijing had two options. The first is a radical “reset” of the entire system, with a large-scale internal crisis and the zeroing of debts. Or war, when debts burn out. In particular, the masters of the West chose a combination of these two scenarios: a "reset" of the world economy (together with a "pandemic") and a hybrid, cold war, when Russia, Ukraine and the EU were appointed as the "weak link". And the United States and the British world should remain the winners.

The result is the liquidation of a part of the "superfluous" humanity, the former consumer society and the electronic digital world. Transition to transhumanism: going beyond the limits of natural humanity, genetic modification and digital mechanization of a person. Western cinema perfectly reflects this sad post-apocalyptic future for most of today's humanity. For example, the films "Surrogates", "Elysium - Heaven Not on Earth" or the TV series "Black Mirror".

The Chinese proposed their project of a "new normal" - a system of social credit. It was launched back in 2013, when it became clear to Beijing that the “middle-income society” (the tax of the Western consumer society) was bankrupt. In particular, debts continued to grow at an alarming rate. And one of the sides of the collapse of this model was an ecological (biospheric) catastrophe.

The system of "social credit" leads to the rationing of consumption. The authorities receive a tool for balancing production and consumption. However, the transition to the “new normal” creates not only a completely new economic, but also a social system. Which creates a lot of new contradictions. Operation Pandemic failed to solve them either in the West or in China, where the authorities had to make concessions against the backdrop of spontaneous processes that had begun. In Russia, the people generally sabotaged this operation of the world hybrid war.

What's next? Beijing is left with the traditional solution to the crisis of capitalism. A war that will write off the debts and mistakes of the leadership. Preferably "small and victorious", that is, successful. The goal is to create a yuan zone in the Asia-Pacific region. Solving the problem of debt, redistributing it to the participants in the Chinese project. Otherwise, the crisis will lead to the traditional stories Celestial plot: turmoil, civil war and collapse, then a slow recovery.

It is worth paying attention to the meeting of Chinese President Xi Jinping in November 2022 with US President Joe Biden. The Chinese leader said:

"Our planet is large enough to allow China and USA develop independently and prosper together.”

That is, the hopes of a part of our public for an alliance with the Celestial Empire within the framework of the domination of the current Western, liberal model in the Russian Federation is decay and a dangerous illusion.
Author:
152 comments
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  1. fa2998
    fa2998 12 December 2022 06: 07
    +44
    "Things in the Chinese economy are getting worse ..." - everyone is looking for negativity abroad. If everything is bad in China, then we don’t have an economy at all. laughing laughing
    1. antivirus
      antivirus 12 December 2022 06: 35
      +8
      We don't need her.
      And China ... if it answers for 1,5 billion: what is super-sufficient ownership for billionaires - it will live perfectly without the US market.
      1. Civil
        Civil 12 December 2022 07: 13
        +27
        The end of the Chinese miracle

        Previously, the propagandists "decayed the West" and the "end of the dollar" came, now the East is additionally decaying with them laughing laughing laughing laughing I propose not to stand on ceremony, write "The whole world is rotting" laughing laughing laughing

        Even before the covid panic, China's debt was simply enormous: according to various estimates, from 300 to over 800% of GDP.

        But what about the US debt, is it no longer fashionable to lament about it? laughing laughing laughing
        1. insafufa
          insafufa 13 December 2022 09: 58
          +5
          The problems are not only with China or the United States, it is with the whole WORLD the operation of plundering Europe is at its apogee. Europe did not work from Lisbon to Vladivostok European bureaucrats did not understand that the union of the EU, Turkey and Russia was the only way out for all of us to survive in a turbulent changing world. So now China, having once again sold us, is trying to knock out buns for itself. With whom to fight, China has a victorious warrior, maybe with Taiwan or India (Pakistan's ally will work off debts)
          1. Revolver
            Revolver 13 December 2022 21: 55
            -1
            Quote: insafufa
            With whom to fight China has a victorious warrior can be with Taiwan
            Taiwan is not 404, even liberals like Biden will fit in for it. Against several AUGs, plus the fleets of NATO allies and other treaties, the Chinese cannot stand. And since the huge Chinese land army does not know how to "by sea like on dry land", it will remain out of business.
            Quote: insafufa
            or India (ally Pakistan will work off debts)
            Maybe this will be good. The exchange of nuclear strikes between India and Pakistan and / or China, on the one hand, will be localized by the territory of these countries (there are mountain ranges from the north, and oceans from the south), and on the other hand, it will show the rest of the world why this should not be done, otherwise Hiroshima and Nagasaki began to be forgotten.
            And China also has a long border with the Russian Federation and Kazakhstan and territorial claims to them (and many other countries). And in this theater, the Chinese army can turn around, but with such numbers you can’t shoot back from them. Even if there is enough ammunition, the barrels will overheat. So you can’t do without special warheads, at least tactical ones.
            1. insafufa
              insafufa 14 December 2022 08: 23
              +2
              You do not understand the specifics of China, the repression of national minorities in China and the attempt to create one China, one people, not from a good life, but from the fact that if a Chinese warrior starts there, his opponent may fall before.
        2. Revolver
          Revolver 13 December 2022 21: 40
          -1
          Quote: Civil
          But what about the US debt, is it no longer fashionable to lament about it?
          Has not yet reached 100% of GDP, so it's too early to lament.
          1. sniperino
            sniperino 14 December 2022 01: 06
            +1
            Quote: Nagan
            Quote: Civil
            But what about the US debt, is it no longer fashionable to lament about it?
            Has not yet reached 100% of GDP, so it's too early to lament.
            The US national debt has risen to 130% of GDP, so get started already.
            1. Revolver
              Revolver 14 December 2022 03: 47
              0
              Quote: sniperino
              US public debt rose to 130% of GDP

              This is if we consider together with the obligations to future pensioners for the maximum life expectancy. But on pensioners, especially in nursing homes, there is another virus. However, I am not afraid of this in relation to myself. If suddenly I reach such a life that I can’t live on my own, I won’t go to any nursing home. I am prescribed so many painkillers for a month (there are problems with the spine), that if they are taken in one go and even washed down with a glass of cognac, then it is quiet and peaceful to drive off and not return. And if painkillers are suddenly banned, then there is also a revolver.
        3. bayard
          bayard 13 December 2022 22: 57
          +2
          Quote: Civil
          But what about the US debt, is it no longer fashionable to lament about it?

          The crisis of the capitalist model of the state with a sovereign financial system, when you can issue liquidity without limiting yourself in anything to lend to your own growth. As a result, business, households, municipalities and the state itself are heavily indebted ... to the level of "non-delivery". In China, the same thing happened as in the US. And they are looking for a way out the same way - outside. For China, these are attempts to expand their sales markets as much as possible (and there are fewer such opportunities) and the desire to make the yuan a full-fledged alternative to the dollar as a means of accumulation, trade and investment. It is for the sake of this that negotiations with the SA on the transition to oil trading for yuan.
          And the fact that the dreams of our forecasters of the early 00s that the Russian Federation, having a "golden share" in the world balance of power, will be able to bargain for its own place under the sun, before our very eyes, are ordered to live a long time under the roar of "victories" in the NWO, is also true .
          As well as the fact that making an economic breakthrough based on China will not work either. Today, China categorically refuses any cooperation in terms of industrial production of deep / large redistribution on the territory of the Russian Federation - only the extraction and export of resources.
          To China .
          At the lowest prices.
          It is possible to make an economic breakthrough, and even a "breakthrough" towards one's own autarky (economic and technological independence), only by relying on OWN FORCES.
          As Comrade Stalin bequeathed. yes
          When he formulated a plan for an industrial breakthrough for the USSR.
          There are both internal and external conditions and opportunities for this, but the State Will is necessary. And a radical break with the institutions of external control and management.
          And one of the fundamental conditions for the possibility of such a breakthrough is the Sovereign Financial System. To self-finance their own development.
          and for this it is not at all necessary to return to the hated current "elite" of the Russian Federation, Socialism. That's absolutely not necessary. It is enough to conduct a sound and life-affirming social policy, rely on internal development, technological self-sufficiency and foreign trade on PARITY terms - in compliance with the trade balance and in national currencies (through SWAP). And export exactly as much goods (only for such an amount) as we need to import from these countries. Let's say a certain European, American or Asian state wants to receive our product / resource - it is obliged to sell us exactly what we need for the same amount. No exclusions or restrictions.
          And no excessive foreign exchange savings - solely to ensure the trade balance and dampen distortions in mutual trade.
          Do you want to accumulate reserves?
          You can do this in the form of accumulations of highly liquid strategic materials that do not have a shelf life: gold, rare earth and non-ferrous metals. The rest of the budget revenue should be directed to internal development, infrastructure programs and social needs. The last point, by the way, will result in an increase in the taxable base and will be returned to the budget through taxes, reviving the entire economy of the country.
          And the nouveau riche will have where to invest money in the Russian Federation, for any such investments will be more protected from arrest by unfriendly countries.
          But for this, the towers must decide on their Wishlist, goals and objectives. And if they tritely want to PHYSICALLY survive in this crazy world, then they must end the bulldog fights under the carpet, and unanimously follow this direction - building a prosperous, self-sufficient state / union state based on their own strengths ... means and resources. And Russia has enough forces, means and resources.
          1. Revolver
            Revolver 14 December 2022 04: 04
            -2
            Quote: bayard
            As Comrade Stalin bequeathed.
            When he formulated a plan for an industrial breakthrough for the USSR.
            There are both internal and external conditions and opportunities for this, but the State Will is necessary

            Is there the will of the people? Deny yourself everything except the minimum necessary, in the name of a bright future, who knows when the future will be? Stalin had a Russian village, which he, let's be honest at least with ourselves, drove into collective farms and squeezed dry. I don't blame him for that. He was forced to use the resources he could use, and in the way he could. If he had not done this, then there would have been no aviation, no tanks, and the Germans would have had to be met with three-rulers and machine-gun carts. But in that war, more village peasants were mowed down than all the others, and then Khrushch and dear Leonid Ilyich experimented on the village in such a way that there was no more of this reserve, either economic or human. Only in one it will be easier than then - there is no need to feed and develop the national outskirts.
            1. bayard
              bayard 14 December 2022 10: 06
              +1
              Quote: Nagan
              Is there the will of the people?

              To a better life? For more wealth? Toward a more sustainable and social state?
              Quote: Nagan
              Deny yourself everything except the minimum necessary, in the name of a bright future, who knows when the future will be?

              You must have misread what I wrote.
              Quote: bayard
              for this it is not at all necessary to return to the hated by the current "elite" of the Russian Federation, Socialism. That's absolutely not necessary. It is enough to conduct a sound and life-affirming social policy, rely on internal development, technological self-sufficiency and foreign trade on PARITY terms

              Where did you see the call "back to socialism" here? I am not at all attracted by social upheavals and civil war, which our country and its population simply will not survive.
              The time for social experimentation has passed. the time has come to generalize the rich life experience of both our own country and the world around us. Yes, and Stalin did not at all seek to build a "barracks" and a "rich state with a poor people" (as Khrushchev did). Look at his post-war economic policy, at the development of the cooperative movement and the individual economic initiative of citizens. Read his latest works ... in the end, look at the tariff scales approved by him (!!), which Khrushchev so ruthlessly distorted, and depreciated them in the appendage, with his monetary reform.
              But that's in the past, a lot has happened since then. And this experience is well worth it. If , of course , dispose of it wisely and for the benefit of the state and people .
              Now, in order to bring Russia into the orbit of sustainable development, it is not at all necessary to degrease the population. Moreover, the level of his well-being must be raised and increased. This is the guarantee and goal of future success.
              wink The mere redirection of financial flows from offshore and foreign jurisdictions to the domestic investment and financial market will already have an invigorating and beneficial effect on the economy. And if we add to this a healthy monetary policy with bringing the monetization of the economy to the global (not American) standard? Moreover, this process can (and preferably) be extended for 8-10 years ... Do you know what this will lead to?
              Toward sustainable and sustained growth of 10% of GDP per year. And we have already gone through this - already with the Russian economy. In the period from 2005 to 2015 Remember THAT growth rates?
              Russia today does not need to carry out "industrialization from scratch", as in 1930. Today, for sustainable development at a HIGH pace, at the level of 10% per year, the State will, the Sovereign Financial System and large-scale (!) National development programs and projects are needed. There is a need for this, the country is huge, almost undeveloped and not even developed beyond the Urals, the social environment and housing stock need to be updated, business requires a huge number of modern commercial ships of all classes, the country needs aircraft and its own cars, its own electronic and radio component production base ... Yes, the Country and its People need a lot of things, and this is an incentive and goal for the development of a sovereign (!) State.
              Look at the same China. Remember how many rumors there were about the "empty new cities of China"? And their roads "to nowhere"? Their nature and climate change programs? Planted forests in deserts and hidden mountains? (landscape leveling)
              What is all this for?
              For the employment of the population, ensuring sustainable economic growth and building a "middle-income society".
              And they simply invent many such programs so that the population is employed and there is where to invest huge sums.
              And we don’t need to invent anything - we need to work tirelessly for several decades to equip our Immense, equipping and developing it, linking it with roads, building new cities and reconstructing old ones, creating new industries and saturating our own market, satisfying all its growing needs , building bridges and planting deserts (one Trans-Volga region has been waiting for programs of wind-retaining forest plantations), building shipyards, the Commercial and Navy, developing Cosmonautics .... Russia simply has a breakthrough of what needs to be developed and built, which means there is a need and potential to sustainable growth. You just need the State Will and the Sovereign Financial System. And everything else will follow. Both technologies and personnel - everything will come to the place of growth ... like water to the powerful root system of a tree.
              Quote: Nagan
              Only in one it will be easier than then - there is no need to feed and develop the national outskirts.

              And if you look at it not as a ballast, but as a RESOURCE ??
              Otherwise, why are there so many people from these republics at our construction sites and industries?
              And all the tensions are solely from the fact that we no longer "feed and develop the national outskirts." They have now ceased to be ours, and the need for their resources (including labor) request remained.
              But, of course, it is necessary to develop, first and foremost, our own economy, increasing the well-being of our own people.
      2. Revolver
        Revolver 13 December 2022 21: 38
        +2
        Quote: antivirus
        We don't need her.
        And China ... if it answers for 1,5 billion: what is super-sufficient ownership for billionaires - it will live perfectly without the US market.

        Of course, hundreds of thousands of dollar millionaires and tens or even hundreds of millions of middle class appeared in China, but most Chinese people do not live much better than under Mao.
        The bullshit is that if everyone, roughly counting 1500000000 Chinese, can consume at the level of the Western middle class, then the rest of the world will have to lower their consumption to the level of the Mexican poor. Why? Yes, because the resources extracted and produced in the world are not enough for more. Neither Europeans, let alone Americans, will agree to give away butter from their piece of bread, not to mention other sweets, so that the Chinese get more than their traditional bowl of rice. Yes, and the Russians in this situation would also have to be divided in favor of the Chinese (and what, who hopes that the opposite is true?) And in order for all the needy Chinese to have cars, the rest of the world will have to switch to bicycles.
        And China, under the current economic model, will not survive without markets in the West. China cannot provide itself with food and energy, and to buy it, you need to get money, and not in yuan. Both economic development and domestic consumption in China are largely tied to loans, and, as the article says, their total amount reaches almost 800% of GDP. Of course, the CCP can make a strong-willed decision to nullify the debts of the state according to the formula "To whom I owe, I forgive; who owes me, please repay", but this will be the price of sinking all middle-class and higher Chinese back into the poor, from where they or their parents climbed with such efforts. , since all their savings will burn out, and unpaid housing, cars, and what else they bought on credit will be taken away. This will also affect the army (in China, even the rank and file belong to the middle class, and this is considered quite a good career, so they have competition in the army). And it is better not to tease a man with a gun, and even more so not to rob, because, as the Great Pilot Mao himself said, "a rifle gives rise to power." But even Gogol said something like "The way I gave birth to you, so I will kill you."
      3. EFIM LYUBIN
        EFIM LYUBIN 20 December 2022 21: 02
        0
        The greatest fairy tale of the Chinese authorities - 1.5 billion people in China! In fact, there are about 850-900 million in China! And the population of China is rapidly dying out, as is the population of all states in the world! By the way, in Russia there are 15-20 million less than the authorities say!
    2. Doccor18
      Doccor18 12 December 2022 07: 22
      +12
      Quote: fa2998
      Things are getting worse in the Chinese economy...

      Well, the truth is, you can forget about the annual growth of 9-12% for a long time, maybe even forever, but there are more and more problems. Along with them, external sales channels are shrinking, and domestic demand has not grown, at least to the level of 50%...

      Quote: fa2998
      If China is bad

      Two giants have become crowded on one ball, and if they collide, it will be bad for everyone, because globalization ...
      Russia will not be able to stand aside, this is what some political scientists used to predict. And what are we seeing now...

      Quote: fa2998
      then we have no economy at all.

      It depends on whom to compare with, if with global players, then yes.
      1. filibuster
        filibuster 12 December 2022 21: 37
        +1
        Well, the truth is, you can forget about the annual growth of 9-12% for a long time, maybe even forever, but there are more and more problems.


        It is impossible to grow by 9-12% every year for a long time, and with the Chinese GDP even 1-2% is a very big growth.
        1. Doccor18
          Doccor18 14 December 2022 07: 32
          -1
          Quote from: filibuster
          It is impossible to grow every year by 9-12% for a long time

          You are right, it is impossible.
          But against the backdrop of the fading of the economies of other states, it would have been possible to grow for another 10-15 years, if not for the economic war against China launched by the Democrats.

          Quote from: filibuster
          and with the Chinese level of GDP, even 1-2% is a very big increase.

          Looking only at the numbers, one might think so, but it is for China that a growth of 1% is stagnation, not development, and a stop for China is almost death. Many serious tasks have not yet been solved, a strong domestic market has not been formed, a scientific breakthrough into the future has not been completed, etc. Each of these tasks requires enormous resources and time, and all this becomes only less every year ...
      2. bayard
        bayard 13 December 2022 23: 28
        +1
        Quote: Doccor18
        Quote: fa2998
        then we have no economy at all.

        It depends on whom to compare with, if with global players, then yes.

        Here, too, how to look. If it’s about the share in world GDP, then it seems to be so, if you look at a number of industries, then in some ways the Russian Federation occupies key positions (oil, gas, grain, some metals, nuclear fuel and nuclear technology).
        And the Russian Federation also has a huge potential for internal growth. What is needed is a sovereign financial system to finance this growth through affordable credit and direct public investment. Of course, relying on internal forces and with the involvement of internal contractors.
        And if you look at some promising industries, then the potential there is simply huge, and based on DOMESTIC demand. This is primarily aviation and shipbuilding. Domestic demand is huge and only it will have to be satisfied for more than a dozen years, and each job created in these industries creates several jobs in related industries (up to ten). If we focus on this as a strategic direction, then the effect will be huge. The same can be said about the automotive industry, where screwdriver assembly dominates. The bet on the maximum and then the full localization of production in this industry will also have a huge effect. Domestic agriculture also has huge potential - its growth potential is far from exhausted, and if you rely on deeper processing and trade not in conditional grain, but in its derivatives, further development of animal husbandry based on domestic surplus fodder base ... then there is growth potential until the end is visible. And this is against the backdrop of food shortages in the world.
        And so everywhere, where almost every of our seeming weakness can turn into its opposite - a huge potential for growth.
        The main thing is to take it wisely.
        And stop fitting into other people's rules.
        You need to live by your own rules - in the interests of your own state, the People and its development.
        1. Frank Muller
          Frank Muller 14 December 2022 03: 19
          +2
          - You need to live by your own rules - in the interests of your own state, the People and its development -. Golden words, but who argues! Yes, these words would be in the ears of those who have usurped the supreme power in the Russian Federation, those who have spoiled themselves over the past three decades with easy profit on Russian natural wealth, machinations and privatizations. However, they hear these words, but act in their own way. And they will act until they are brought to their senses by a very definite uncontested threat. Which? And at least this, as one of the characters in A. Tolstoy's "Walking Through the Torments" said: "Take it, douse it with kerosene, and burn all this bastard!"
          1. Doccor18
            Doccor18 14 December 2022 07: 22
            0
            Quote: Frank Muller
            until they are brought to their senses by a well-defined, uncontested threat.

            Do not understand. History has proven this over and over...
          2. bayard
            bayard 14 December 2022 08: 49
            0
            Quote: Frank Muller
            Yes, these words would be in the ears of those who have usurped the supreme power in the Russian Federation, those who have spoiled themselves over the past three decades with easy profit on Russian natural wealth, machinations and privatizations.

            Here, I think, the nouveau riche should be divided into two categories - those whose business and source of income is located within the country, but they prefer/prefer to keep their proceeds and capital offshore (lower taxes, protection against seizure by law or in a bandit way), and those who initially put on business and / or control of the state and financial flows (officials, bankers, mining and export monopolists). And if the former are now faced with the confiscation of their assets abroad, and in order to protect their own capital and business, they have transferred / are transferring business registration to domestic offshore zones created especially for them (Kaliningrad, Russian Island in Vladivostok), and they essentially just need conditions for continuation of work within the country (affordable credit at a reasonable percentage, investment protection) ... These are already ready and, moreover, they want to work according to their own rules established by Russia. And they want these rules to meet the conditions of sustainable internal development. But the second ... this is precisely the core of external control and management. For them, the main thing is not Russian laws and the interests of their "own" state, but the protection of the interests of those who put them in their place, external centers of control and management. And these will defend the interests of their owners and employers to the end. Genuine employers. And it is this category that needs to be removed from the management of the state, finance and business. And it is very important not to confuse the first with the second. Better yet, rely on the former to neutralize the eradication of the latter. Therefore, the former must be provided with comprehensive support within the state and state support at the international level, but the latter ... up to and including putting before the fact:
            Quote: Frank Muller
            as one of the characters in A. Tolstoy's "Walking Through the Torments" said: "Take it, douse it with kerosene, and burn all this bastard!"
        2. Doccor18
          Doccor18 14 December 2022 07: 20
          +1
          Quote: bayard
          If about the share in world GDP, then it seems to be so

          This is what he had in mind, as well as a strong import dependence in some industries.
          Quote: bayard
          You need to live by your own rules - in the interests of your own state, the People and its development.

          Of course, I completely agree.
          Quote: bayard
          The main thing is to take it wisely.

          We need a long-term strategy (at least 20 years), with clear goals, plans and people who will be personally responsible for the implementation of each step.
          1. bayard
            bayard 14 December 2022 09: 10
            +1
            Quote: Doccor18
            This is what he had in mind, as well as a strong import dependence in some industries.

            The sanctions imposed against Russia have already put our economy in such conditions that, willy-nilly, we have to urgently get rid of such import dependence. And one of the most striking examples is the aircraft industry. As soon as it got hot, practically "import-substituted" versions of the MS-21 and Super-Jet appeared in the shortest possible time. If these machines are put into production, this will become a driver for the growth and development of a number of industries related to the aircraft industry. The same (although expectations are more cautious) is also observed in the automotive industry, where, although now there is mainly a transition to screwdriver assembly of Chinese models, or the use of Chinese components and assemblies, there is an intention in the coming years to localize the production of all / most components in their own country as much as possible. For repeating the feint with the ears and from the Chinese partners, no one wants to see.
            In addition, against the backdrop of the exodus of manufacturing companies from Europe, there was a chance to turn part of this flow of "refugees" into their Palestinians - into cheap and affordable energy and raw materials, a huge domestic market and (God forbid) a firm state power interested in this.
            But the cornerstone of state sovereignty is the Sovereign Financial System. Nothing felined with external control and management centers.
            Quote: Doccor18
            We need a long-term strategy (at least 20 years), with clear goals, plans and people who will be personally responsible for the implementation of each step.

            Exactly . And a healthy monetary policy of the state to ensure this development ... And control over banks with foreign founders and foreign top managers. In general, it is desirable to either nationalize such people or completely deprive them of their licenses.
            hi
    3. Gvardeetz77
      Gvardeetz77 12 December 2022 09: 31
      +12
      Quote: fa2998
      "Things in the Chinese economy are getting worse ..." - everyone is looking for negativity abroad. If everything is bad in China, then we don’t have an economy at all. laughing laughing

      A bad economy means problems and they need to be solved, but no economy means no problems and nothing to solve ... laughing
    4. aglet
      aglet 12 December 2022 13: 06
      +2
      "If everything is bad in China, then we have no economy at all."
      and we don’t have it, even without China
    5. Viktor Sergeev
      Viktor Sergeev 12 December 2022 18: 47
      0
      Well, if by the economy we mean the release of a bunch of unnecessary smartphones and other unnecessary, but so necessary garbage, yes, we don’t have an economy. But we have energy, black soil, food, water, something we cannot do without.
      1. your1970
        your1970 13 December 2022 22: 23
        +2
        Quote: Victor Sergeev
        chernozems
        и lot who want to process them?
    6. iouris
      iouris 12 December 2022 19: 10
      +1
      Quote: fa2998
      We don't have an economy at all.

      And it is not necessary. She has only problems. Just look at the US and China.
    7. Romanovski
      Romanovski 12 December 2022 20: 10
      +8
      ""... Things are getting worse in the Chinese economy ...... This allowed China to become the No. 2 economic superpower, catching up and even overtaking America in places ....."".
      ----------
      The author made a mistake with the address .... It is in the USA and the EU that problems are brewing in the economy and in the social sphere INEVITABLY, like the sunrise ... In Russia, many couch strategists have divorced who do not feed with bread, but let them slyly "cry" about an unenviable fate FLOWERING and STRENGTHENING in ALL(!) areas of China's economy and military-industrial complex. The question is - and on whose mill (probably Western? ...) do such "analysts" pour water ??? This is reminiscent of how, in the zero years, Russian consumers, spoiled by abundance, spoke with arrogant snobbery about Chinese goods (in particular, about the nascent auto industry and not only ...) - like the Chinese have a thin gut to aim at European quality and famous brands. Well, where is the US and EU auto industry, unlike the Chinese one ??? The quality of Chinese goods over the past 10 years has caught up and ALREADY in many segments is higher than the quality of European goods .... Russian lovers of washing the bones of Chinese goods of well-known manufacturers have somehow waned in recent years ... That's when the same level of social JUSTICE is reached in the Russian Federation ( yes ... exactly), hard work, LEGALITY and ORDER, REASONABLE and INCENTIVE (!! ... YES, imagine, Russian legislators and bureaucrats, that in nature there are such taxes, and not just predatory ones ...), THE STRICTEST , BRUTAL and INEVITABLE (!) PUNISHMENT for werewolves in epaulettes and ties and their ward leaders from organized crime groups in tattoos (in the Russian Federation - this is so-so so far, that is, there are more declarations on paper than real landings and punishments ... That's when the death penalty is RESTORED for especially dangerous crimes, then we'll see ...).
      1. your1970
        your1970 13 December 2022 22: 37
        -1
        Quote from Romanovski
        That's when the same level of social JUSTICE is reached in the Russian Federation (yes ... exactly),

        Innovation- social justice(!!!!) in the presence of LEGAL(!!!) billionaires and drives it all communist the consignment.....

        Marx choked on a cracker, Lenin ran along the ceiling of the Mausoleum, and Stalin groaned in his coffin, "And how did I blunder and didn't shoot all the fools in Rus'?"
      2. napalm
        napalm 14 December 2022 00: 28
        +2
        Quote from Romanovski
        ""... Things are getting worse in the Chinese economy ...... This allowed China to become the No. 2 economic superpower, catching up and even overtaking America in places ....."".
        ----------
        The author made a mistake with the address .... It is in the USA and the EU that problems are brewing in the economy and in the social sphere INEVITABLY, like the sunrise ... In Russia, many couch strategists have divorced who do not feed with bread, but let them slyly "cry" about an unenviable fate FLOWERING and STRENGTHENING in ALL(!) areas of China's economy and military-industrial complex. The question is - and on whose mill (probably Western? ...) do such "analysts" pour water ??? This is reminiscent of how, in the zero years, Russian consumers, spoiled by abundance, spoke with arrogant snobbery about Chinese goods (in particular, about the nascent auto industry and not only ...) - like the Chinese have a thin gut to aim at European quality and famous brands. Well, where is the US and EU auto industry, unlike the Chinese one ??? The quality of Chinese goods over the past 10 years has caught up and ALREADY in many segments is higher than the quality of European goods .... Russian lovers of washing the bones of Chinese goods of well-known manufacturers have somehow waned in recent years ... That's when the same level of social JUSTICE is reached in the Russian Federation ( yes ... exactly), hard work, LEGALITY and ORDER, REASONABLE and INCENTIVE (!! ... YES, imagine, Russian legislators and bureaucrats, that in nature there are such taxes, and not just predatory ones ...), THE STRICTEST , BRUTAL and INEVITABLE (!) PUNISHMENT for werewolves in epaulettes and ties and their ward leaders from organized crime groups in tattoos (in the Russian Federation - this is so-so so far, that is, there are more declarations on paper than real landings and punishments ... That's when the death penalty is RESTORED for especially dangerous crimes, then we'll see ...).

        Here, some comrades tore their vests and said that the Chinese would never be able to make aircraft engines on their own. They would only buy from Russia. They already refuse, they put their own.
    8. Zhenya Loza
      Zhenya Loza 14 December 2022 09: 02
      0
      You haven’t been in independent for a long time, everyone is aware.
  2. Bingo
    Bingo 12 December 2022 07: 13
    +8
    A war that will write off the debts and mistakes of the leadership. Preferably "small and victorious", that is, successful. The goal is to create a yuan zone in the Asia-Pacific region.

    There was such Zapolskis, he has already died, so he predicted for a long time the clustering of economies with the closure of chains within clusters, in fact, this is happening all over the world now, and China is forming the Asia-Pacific cluster quite successfully without any war. So the war is not necessary. By the way, the United States was also kicked out from everywhere, they are also clustering, which is the reason for the export of production from Europe - they are outside the cluster
    1. insafufa
      insafufa 13 December 2022 13: 24
      0
      Europe - they are outside the cluster
      GDP back in 2008 offered from Lisbon to Vladivostok but did not grow together
    2. insafufa
      insafufa 13 December 2022 13: 25
      0
      And what cluster have we been assigned to? it seems we are also outside the cluster for now
      1. Bingo
        Bingo 13 December 2022 14: 14
        +1
        We have the formation of a cluster of the FSU + part of the Middle East
        1. insafufa
          insafufa 14 December 2022 08: 37
          +1
          Timur Gazi speaks on YouTube channel (student of Geidar Jimal) talks about the theory of projects.
          Khazin talks about currency zones Well, if you add everything up, you get a cluster, whatever one may say.
  3. Nikolay Malyugin
    Nikolay Malyugin 12 December 2022 08: 02
    +6
    The economic crisis has affected everyone. The pandemic didn't come out of nowhere. They dreamed about it for another five years. She didn't work to her full potential. You have to play war. And then people began to live too calmly. Everything is thought out to the smallest detail. China, like other countries, is losing something. And it is trying its best to keep what it has acquired. Taiwan seems to have worked out well, but equipment and entire factories worth billions of dollars have been removed from there. The capitalist world is slowly moving towards depression. Ears are already sticking out.
    1. Doccor18
      Doccor18 12 December 2022 08: 47
      +7
      Quote: Nikolay Malyugin
      The capitalist world is slowly heading towards depression.

      He has been living in this state for 14 years, and he will be "cured", as always, with the help of familiar "antidepressants": a global redistribution of markets and war...
      1. alexoff
        alexoff 12 December 2022 21: 23
        +5
        What is there to change? Everything is already rewritten on them, you can only rob Western pensioners with their funds (which were invested in cue ball, for example), since young people were robbed back in the Reagan era and now even in the USA millennials do not own anything, unlike their parents, at their age who owned a quarter of the economy
  4. Illanatol
    Illanatol 12 December 2022 08: 17
    +14
    Even before the covid panic, China's debt was simply enormous: according to various estimates, from 300 to over 800% of GDP.


    Where does such data come from? Links - would you like to provide?
    In fact, China has much less debt.
    In 2021, China's external public debt is only 71.5% of GDP. Given that for the PRC, it is more correct to consider not GDP, but GNP, since the PRC is actively expanding its economy abroad.
    And by the way, what about the domestic market? Are you aware that its capacity has already exceeded the volume of Chinese exports?

    Links for those interested:
    https://take-profit.org/statistics/government-debt-to-gdp/china/

    https://countrymeters.info/ru/China/economy
    1. Mikhail3
      Mikhail3 12 December 2022 09: 04
      +3
      China has an American public debt, according to various sources, from 1,5 to 3 trillion. It seems that the Chinese may at any moment place their debt in the hands of the United States. Do what you want))
      1. alexoff
        alexoff 12 December 2022 21: 24
        0
        The Chinese went even further than Putin, because back in 2020 Trump threatened to take away their debt, and this does not bother them. Even after tiktok
    2. Rakitin
      Rakitin 12 December 2022 11: 52
      +5
      China has not external, but internal debt. In effect, China's export-oriented enterprises were pumped up with near-free yuan loans in order to conquer foreign markets. In the context of a sharp decline in exports, such loans become irrevocable, and banks lent money to ordinary Chinese to enterprises. Those. the savings that the Chinese have accumulated over the past 40 years have in fact already been reset to zero. Now it remains to inform the population about this, which is happening now - for example, through the mass refusal of Chinese banks to issue money to depositors ...
      1. Woodman
        Woodman 12 December 2022 12: 15
        0
        Quote: Rakitin
        Those. the savings that the Chinese have accumulated over the past 40 years have in fact already been reset to zero.

        Chinese developer starts accepting garlic and wheat as down payment

        Photo: China Daily / Reuters

        Chinese developer Central China Real Estate has allowed buyers to pay for part of the housing in new buildings with food. The company began accepting farm-grown garlic and wheat as a down payment.
        I don't know how effective this plan is...
        1. vindigo
          vindigo 12 December 2022 22: 11
          +1
          Previously, rice was the currency in Eastern countries. We returned to the roots.
        2. napalm
          napalm 14 December 2022 00: 43
          -1
          I don’t know, however, how effective this scheme turned out to be ... Where China will go. Again, as in the opium wars, it will sag.
      2. Yura
        Yura 12 December 2022 17: 27
        +1
        Quote: Rakitin
        China has not external, but internal debt.

        That's right, yesterday there was a figure of 1 trillion dollars and this is a serious problem for China. It’s not easy to understand how they solve it right away, but they decide how successfully time will show, it’s too early to talk about it now. The US and Europe will use this situation to the fullest against China, it is not clear whether they will bring the situation to a critical one, because the logic in the actions of the collective West has been completely absent lately.
    3. gromit
      gromit 12 December 2022 17: 21
      +4
      According to the latest data from the Bank for International Settlements (BIS), total loans to China's non-financial sector reached $51,87 trillion in the second quarter, which is almost three times the country's GDP (295%). According to the Japanese agency Nikkei, this level of debt is the highest for China since 1995. For comparison, in Russia the volume of such debt in the second quarter is 120% of GDP, in the US - 263,5%, in the UK - 257%, in Germany - 195%.

      https://www.kommersant.ru/doc/5707604

      Perhaps the author added external and internal debt.
      But where did 800% come from, I also did not understand.
    4. insafufa
      insafufa 13 December 2022 13: 28
      0
      Where does such data come from? Links - would you like to provide?
      In fact, China has much less debt.
      In 2021, China's external public debt is only 71.5% of GDP. Given that for the PRC, it is more correct to consider not GDP, but GNP, since the PRC is actively expanding its economy abroad.
      And by the way, what about the domestic market? Are you aware that its capacity has already exceeded the volume of Chinese exports?

      And if you look like this:

      As of 2020, China's total government debt is approximately 46 trillion yuan (US$7,0 trillion), equivalent to approximately 45% of GDP. Standard & Poor's Global Ratings said China's local governments could have an additional 40 trillion yuan ($5,8 trillion) of off-balance sheet debt. In addition, according to the International Monetary Fund, the debt of state-owned industrial firms.

      And if so, another picture:
      Worldwide over 244[000] Early 000 ≈2 over 2019%
      Mil dol.
      1 US 28 - 308%
      2 China 16 -250%
      3 European Union 14 -259%
      4 Japan 13 -504%
      5 UK 2 -681%
      6 Germany 2 -557%
      7 Netherlands 515 377 -64%
      8 France 6 266 150 -98%
      9 Italy 3 -160%
      10 Luxembourg 16 141 -36%
      11 Spain 1 -849%
      12 Switzerland 1 -844%
      13 Australia 1 -486%
      14 Belgium 566 439 338%
      15 Canada 1 -613%
      16 Singapore 632 609 -346%
      17 Hong Kong 1 -630%
      18 Sweden 107 -669%
      19 Austria 345 952 -194%
      20 Norway 614 820 -201%
      21 Finland 107 -000%
      22 Denmark 109 173 -244%
      23 Greece 589 618 -234%
      25 Brazil 3 -195%
      26 Russia 481 473[3] as of January 1, 2020 40%
  5. Kuroneko
    Kuroneko 12 December 2022 08: 44
    +2
    A global world war will be inevitable. The only question is when to start.
    So China is wise to invest heavily in weapons. This is our most important asset these days.
  6. Mikhail3
    Mikhail3 12 December 2022 09: 01
    +7
    Great article. Capitalism cannot be balanced in principle. It is a fundamentally unstable system. Zeroing out debt gives you a break. Only a breather. Rome used this method for a whole millennium, but then the economic processes were slow, tied to agriculture.
    All other methods don't work at all.
    Capitalist prosperity must be replaced by catastrophic, destructive, terrible wars. This is the only way capitalism can exist at all. But then physicists planted their bomb under capitalism ...
    The Chinese must return to socialism completely. Moreover, it is necessary to return socialism as the path to communism. And for this it is necessary at least to understand what it is in general - communism. Khrushchev's idea of ​​a mountain of grub and goods, in which every worker can splash, enthusiastically chewing and shitting on an endless mountain of endless products, this is clearly not communism)
    And if you start looking at communism as the same Efremov, then the modern ruling class of China has no place either in it, or on the way to it. In general, what we should get is clear. But how to come to this? Question...
    1. Sibiriya
      Sibiriya 12 December 2022 10: 02
      +3
      Socialism is a political, social and economic philosophy aimed at realizing social justice...
      Justice is the concept of due, which contains the requirement of conformity between deeds and retribution: in particular, the conformity of rights and obligations, labor and remuneration ...
      I think we have to fight for it
      1. Mikhail3
        Mikhail3 12 December 2022 10: 36
        +6
        Quote: Siberia
        Socialism is a political, social and economic philosophy aimed at realizing social justice...

        No. Not at all) Socialism is a practical guide to the most effective management of socio-economic processes in society. The main thing in socialism is not justice, but simply the efficiency of the entire socio-economic complex in the state and society.
        Justice is just one of the consequences of good governance. Moreover, under socialism there should be people who eat a piece of bread and water from a pump. It was such a strange understanding of socialism as yours that led to the collapse of the USSR.
        Socialism gives everyone equal starting opportunities. But only. Any person can become anything that his inclinations, diligence and talents allow him to become. But nothing more. If you do not want to plow for the sake of realizing your potential, you should not, in principle, receive more than the social minimum. Is there a roof over your head? Are you dying of hunger? It's all. You work - everything is for you. You don't work... That's the understanding of socialism as a "fair" society, where the worker and the loafer have equal incomes, and it was destroyed.
        1. Foul skeptic
          Foul skeptic 12 December 2022 12: 47
          +3
          Here is the understanding of socialism as a "just" society, where the worker and the loafer have equal incomes, and it was destroyed.

          Well, if the whole country came to the political economy to sleep, and not to teach, then why be surprised at such an "understanding"
          1. Mikhail3
            Mikhail3 12 December 2022 12: 49
            +2
            Yeah. And then go to rule the country. This is how communism was understood not by anyone, but by grandfathers from the Politburo. It was their labors that could do nothing, and get more workers. And once the grandfathers were extremely surprised ...
        2. Sibiriya
          Sibiriya 12 December 2022 13: 09
          0
          Socialism is a political, social and economic philosophy aimed at the implementation of social justice, the achievement of which is expected, among other things, through public ownership of the means of production. In a broader sense, socialism can be defined as a political trend whose main principle is the pursuit of a world based on harmonious social organization and the fight against injustice. In economic terms, socialism is characterized by social and/or state control over the economy, both over the means of production and over the process of allocating resources. Depending on the context, the word "socialism" can define an ideology, an economy, a political regime, or a social organization.
          This is from Wikipedia, roughly speaking the theory. Not a word about efficiency. You write about one type of practical implementation attempt. I meant theory, but how to put it into practice correctly is a big question.
          1. Sibiriya
            Sibiriya 12 December 2022 13: 32
            0
            And why there was a collapse of the USSR there are a lot of reasons. But the most important of them I consider the lack of control of the elite (began under Khrushchev). An economy in which the shaft was more important than quality and demand. Maintenance at the expense of the Russian Federation of fraternal republics, countries that have taken the "necessary" path of development. A lot of reasons.
          2. Mikhail3
            Mikhail3 13 December 2022 20: 32
            0
            This porridge from Soviet textbooks, which got into the wiki directly from the still living functionaries of the Institute of Marxism-Leninism. These bastards don't understand what they've done.
            You see, the Bolsheviks did not arrange the Great October Socialist Revolution) This is just a vile lie. It was just a coup, quiet and even without shooting. No one climbed onto the open gates from impatience to arrange a pretentious assault. There was no need.
            But this hat turned out to be very successful propaganda! And the Bolsheviks decided that they would ride this horse always and everywhere. They will lie, deceive, manipulate with a "good purpose", such as everything for the working people! Including the most vile deception of this very people ... As a result, looking at all this idiotic pointless chatter instead of a normal theoretical study of real processes and real actions, the West decided that socialism is a religion)
            And our people just scored a lie. No faith in liars. For some reason they are always sure that a lie will win, they say the truth has limits, and a lie is limitless ... And for some reason they always forget that one day a seal appears on the forehead of a liar - HE LIES. And then no matter what he says, they no longer believe him in anything. And his boundless lies stop working at all. And now, with his false lips, he soils the truth.
            Leave all this mess. She's worth nothing.
            1. Sibiriya
              Sibiriya 13 December 2022 21: 09
              +1
              Dear Michael 3.
              This porridge from Soviet textbooks, which got into the wiki directly from the still living functionaries of the Institute of Marxism-Leninism.

              The wiki has footnotes at the bottom (at the very end), you will be pleasantly surprised by the number of authors not from the institute. Again, socialism and the USSR are not the same thing. I'm talking about theory, you tell me about special cases wink There are many more types of socialism than three. For example:
              Socialism according to Karl Marx
              ethical socialism
              State socialism
              Fabian socialism, etc. and all this is not the Institute of Marxism-Leninism. hi
              And everyone is entitled to their own point of view.
              1. Mikhail3
                Mikhail3 13 December 2022 22: 43
                0
                This is NOT a theory. This is pointless bullshit. Marx has a theory. On the basis of which many people are now working. And this is chatter. Emptiness. Nothing. And on this deception, the USSR slipped, fell and crashed. Just like you did not want to see reality, preferring to it a "theory", behind which there is nothing.
                1. Sibiriya
                  Sibiriya 13 December 2022 22: 53
                  +1
                  Well, that's your opinion.) As well as conclusions about a person whom you do not know at all) hi
                  And again issuing the particular for the general)
          3. your1970
            your1970 13 December 2022 22: 55
            0
            Quote: Siberia
            You write about one type of practical implementation attempt. I meant theory, but how to put it into practice correctly is a big question.
            - and what for to us the theory is not applicable in practice?????
        3. Eule
          Eule 13 December 2022 09: 31
          +2
          Not certainly in that way. The Soviet version of socialism was aimed at making it difficult for a person to slide down: from sobering-up stations to an article for pederasty. And at the same time he was pushing up - free libraries, circles for children, tourist clubs, the movement of innovators in production, and everything else. This was economically justified, as a healthy smart person works better, lives longer healthy and raises healthier and smarter children.
          But under capitalism, the opposite is beneficial - perverts consume more, there is an excise tax on vodka and cigarettes. Yes, and for pederasts a whole market of goods exists, about which healthy people do not even suspect.
          1. your1970
            your1970 13 December 2022 22: 59
            0
            Quote: eule
            there is an excise tax on vodka and cigarettes
            well, so they were under socialism too - state cheats and duties on implrt cigarettes
    2. filibuster
      filibuster 12 December 2022 10: 28
      0
      Moreover, it is necessary to return socialism as the path to communism.


      They had such a path under Mao, tens of millions of victims, apparently do not want to repeat the experiment yet.
      1. Mikhail3
        Mikhail3 12 December 2022 10: 37
        +6
        If you call Monday a boot, you still can’t put on shoes in it. If you call what Mao did communism, it will still be impossible to live in it)
        1. filibuster
          filibuster 12 December 2022 11: 00
          0
          Well, it is clear that when something did not work out, it was not the right communism / socialism.
          1. Mikhail3
            Mikhail3 12 December 2022 12: 11
            +5
            How else should this be understood?) In the 70s of the last century, the realization came that capitalism is doomed in fair economic competition. Ask yourself a simple question. Here you have to manage the most complicated macroeconomic process. How should this be done - according to a plan, or just give free rein to all its participants? They say they themselves will regulate everything, each based solely on their own greed and thirst for power?))
            In the space of reason, socialism is invincible, those who seriously consider it better than capitalism are simply intellectually insufficient)
            Seeing this indisputable conclusion, the capitalists stopped competing economically and began to cheat. And yes, a swindler will always overcome an honest worker, because a worker works, putting all his strength and means into it, and a swindler deceives, using everything to deceive.
            The worker is doomed. That's just without a worker, some scammers, get a general regression and decay. When the percentage of deceivers exceeds 5% of the productive forces, the system simply collapses. What we are now seeing. The system was large, and crumbled for a long time. But the end is still the same...
            1. filibuster
              filibuster 12 December 2022 12: 16
              -6
              In the 70s of the last century, the realization came that capitalism is doomed in fair economic competition.

              Someone has a very strange understanding in fair economic competition that capitalism will tear apart any socialism / communism like a “ace heating pad”. Even here, you see, they write that China is using capitalism to build up its economic base, but then it will begin to “equalize”.
              1. Mikhail3
                Mikhail3 12 December 2022 12: 52
                +5
                Why didn't you break it? In the USSR, everyone had something to eat, what to wear, where to live and work) And under capitalism, which "tore apart"? I say scammers. Leading now the world to complete collapse by general war. Since there are no other ways to overcome what they did in the process of "gap". Ready for death, adherents of capitalism? Death is terrible...
                1. filibuster
                  filibuster 12 December 2022 12: 57
                  -4
                  So the USSR tore the West economically, even Stalin recognized the economic power of the United States and openly said that without American engines we would have lost the war.
                  1. Mikhail3
                    Mikhail3 13 December 2022 20: 41
                    +1
                    So I didn’t break it, as I said) A quote from Stalin proves the superiority of good engines over bad ones. And that's all) Socialism feeds, gives purpose and work to all its participants. And he, in principle, does not need either crises or wars. Live, don't grieve...
                    Capitalism does not feed everyone even in the short periods of its prosperity. All the same, and at the peak, many thousands (and even millions) of people are dying of hunger. And from time to time it is necessary to arrange a global war. For the continued existence of capitalism. We have to kill billions. Here right now. Necessary. For capitalism to flourish and smell. Feel the target on your forehead? capitalism set it up. He needs. Great community building...
              2. Foul skeptic
                Foul skeptic 12 December 2022 12: 57
                +4
                Someone has a very strange understanding in fair economic competition that capitalism will tear apart any socialism / communism like a “ace heating pad”.

                Resources are finite even with recycling. Capitalism breeds a mountain of unnecessary garbage. Therefore, in the game "in the long run" capitalism loses as an economic model in which a non-dystopian future is possible
                1. filibuster
                  filibuster 12 December 2022 13: 05
                  0
                  Resources are finite even with recycling. Capitalism breeds a mountain of unnecessary garbage.


                  This is from the cycle of finiteness of the lifetime of the Sun.

                  Therefore, in the long game, capitalism loses as an economic model

                  So far, capitalism is outplaying all competitors in the long game.
                  1. Foul skeptic
                    Foul skeptic 12 December 2022 13: 11
                    +3
                    This is from the cycle of finiteness of the lifetime of the Sun.

                    It only seems so that "our century will be enough."
                    So far, capitalism is outplaying all competitors in the long game.

                    Due to constant local and periodic global wars?
                    And, in your opinion, a couple of hundred years is a "long time" on a historical scale?
                    Blessed is he who believes.
                    All "replayers" always forget one nuance - one should look at the "successes" of capitalism not by the G20 countries, but by "averaging" the "achievements" of the entire cap. world, because in some Haiti - also capitalism.
                    1. filibuster
                      filibuster 12 December 2022 13: 39
                      -4
                      It only seems so that "our century will be enough."


                      Not only for our age, at least for the entire lifetime of the universe.

                      Due to constant local and periodic global wars?
                      And, in your opinion, a couple of hundred years is a "long time" on a historical scale?
                      Blessed is he who believes.


                      And when they were not these local and global wars? They were before capitalism and probably will be after it.


                      And, in your opinion, a couple of hundred years is a "long time" on a historical scale?


                      Well, the nearest competitors could not hold out together with capitalism for hundreds of years.
                      1. The comment was deleted.
            2. Non-fighter
              Non-fighter 12 December 2022 12: 55
              +3
              Toys. The last "Victoria" from the paradox. The most effective system is communism, but they promised to tweak the coefficients to prevent this from happening.
              And in real life, we will also twist the coefficients ???
    3. The comment was deleted.
  7. Aleprok
    Aleprok 12 December 2022 09: 10
    +5
    who has a common fund is the godfather
    therefore, as long as the owners of money have a printing press and a paper shredder, we can’t cope with it from the word in any way ((
    upset the balance can only undermine confidence in the green paper
    1. Mikhail3
      Mikhail3 12 December 2022 09: 42
      +4
      So this is not a common fund for a long time) These are Ataman notes, such as "give a million candy wrappers to the giver of this." And if you take such a candy wrapper for a million from the ataman, he pays you a little regularly. Just a little bit. The Fed can't issue money in principle, so they issue debt, which is what the world calls a "green printer". It's not green)
      And here it all depends on whether they believe in debt to the ataman. At the moment, faith is very shaken, and these pieces of paper are a millimeter from complete zeroing) It all rests on the fact that the owners of mountains of these pieces of paper are afraid of their zeroing. But if the Fed dares to significantly increase their number right now, then even the owners of these papers will have to move.
      In general, not everything is so clear)
      1. filibuster
        filibuster 12 December 2022 10: 29
        +3
        And here it all depends on whether they believe in debt to the ataman.


        While the chieftain is paying his debts with interest, they believe him, the United States is still paying its debts, that's actually their whole secret.
        1. Mikhail3
          Mikhail3 12 December 2022 12: 14
          +4
          Right. When the borrower is an idiot. There are very few idiots among large borrowers) As a rule, these people consider risks. The financial pyramid, in principle, is not eternal. And here the main thing is to have time to dump before the crash. Right now, all investors are tiptoeing, watching - when? So when?! And the temptation is growing to start withdrawing funds today...
        2. dfk-80
          dfk-80 13 December 2022 09: 11
          -2
          What is the problem with paying debts with regular IOUs. The United States can owe as much as you like (even infinity to the degree of infinity) and close all debts with another IOU.
          1. filibuster
            filibuster 13 December 2022 10: 44
            0
            There is no problem if the economy is growing, as long as the US economy is growing, everyone is happy with everything.
            1. Dismas
              Dismas 13 December 2022 15: 13
              0
              It's not about the US economy, but the fact that everything and everything is valued in dollars. Bucks measure the value of everything, even "independent" cryptocurrencies.
      2. your1970
        your1970 13 December 2022 23: 16
        0
        Quote: Mikhail3
        And here it all depends on whether they believe in debt to the ataman. At the moment, faith is very shaken, and these pieces of paper are a millimeter away from complete zeroing)

        That is, Nabiulina is good belay lol ??
        Or
        Quote: Mikhail3
        In general, not everything is so clear)
        ?? feel
  8. Foul skeptic
    Foul skeptic 12 December 2022 09: 23
    +9
    Even before the covid panic, China's debt was simply enormous: according to various estimates, from 300 to over 800% of GDP. This debt cannot be repaid.

    By whose grades?
    74% state, 115% general.
  9. Maks1995
    Maks1995 12 December 2022 09: 34
    +9
    "the hopes of a part of our public for an alliance with the Celestial Empire are decay and a dangerous illusion...."
    It was clear from the very beginning. Only cheers-smi everyone hung noodles on their ears by order.

    Why do they need us outside of the neo-colonial supply of resources? non-global enough in sum?

    There are no dachas of our senators and propagandists there. The yachts of the oligarchs too. Siberia is uninhabited. They learned how to make motors themselves. Electronics - for a long time.

    With the losers who ruined their country with impunity, they do not enter into alliances ...
    1. alexoff
      alexoff 12 December 2022 21: 30
      +2
      In fact, China is in dangerous illusions, American admiral generals openly wrote more than 10 years ago that if the Russian Federation is an ally of China, then the Americans will break their teeth about him even with the Japanese and Indians, and if the Russian Federation is against China, then he will be strangled with a resource blockade. The Chinese generally do not have reliable allies, and they do not try to produce them. The second economy of the world did not give rise to some kind of economic miracle like the United States in Japan, for example, they could create a beautiful picture in Afghanistan by pouring a few billion there and everyone would immediately forget about terrorist attacks and the like, they say - now, the new owners have come, let alone Americans!
      1. Maks1995
        Maks1995 13 December 2022 09: 41
        0
        Idealism...
        what are "reliable allies"? Every man for himself. Capitalism in the yard.
        "pouring out a few billion there"
        yeah. Muslims and clans at the expense of these lards would have strengthened, and their children would again go to slaughter with everyone ...
        Maybe they decided to build an extra aircraft carrier on these lards? lards do not roll on the road ....
        1. alexoff
          alexoff 13 December 2022 21: 30
          0
          Of course, there are no reliable allies, reliable allies usually merge into one country, but an unreliable ally is better than none. And an aircraft carrier will not help much if they block all the straits through which oil and everything else is transported, and the Russian Federation provides the Trans-Siberian Railway for the Americans to attack China from the west through sparsely populated regions. Well, the fifth column in China is no less than ours
          1. Maks1995
            Maks1995 13 December 2022 23: 11
            0
            Not fools.
            Billions of Chinese people are already investing wherever they need to.
            We looked around and decided - it’s better to build an aircraft carrier than those very ones banned in Russia, but traveling to the Kremlin. pamper with a freebie with 9 zeros ...
            1. alexoff
              alexoff 13 December 2022 23: 21
              0
              And who are they pampering? Americans have been pampering Israel, Scandinavia, Ireland, Switzerland and other Singaporeans for many decades, then all sorts of Ukrainians are trying to become a second Japan in these stories. But to be an ally of China - how is it? To be poor and take out resources in exchange for Chinese mobile phones? There are also a lot of Indians, ours are making the Brahmos-2 hypersonic missile defense system, and they are fighting with the Indians over some kind of bearish corner, and there are others.
              1. Maks1995
                Maks1995 14 December 2022 13: 50
                0
                Again you are talking about some kind of "allies"
                What is amers to give a hundred million with or without a refund? If one naked aircraft carrier costs 14 lards?
                Well, the Chinese decided not to give that either. And build an extra aircraft carrier.
  10. filibuster
    filibuster 12 December 2022 10: 26
    +4
    As if again at political classes and speeches are almost the same, the crisis of capitalism, the subsequent collapse, the social revolution, the victory of communism are inevitable. Capitalism has been buried for the second century.
    1. dfk-80
      dfk-80 13 December 2022 09: 20
      +2
      When one leader told another leader of a neighboring tribe that it was more profitable not to eat prisoners, but to force them to work, the neighbor neighed, but the slave-owning system soon set in.
      When the first slave owner let go of his slaves and began to lease land to them, the neighbors, the planters, turned their heads, but feudalism did come.
      And even when one prince was told that soon his children would serve the children of shop masters - and he ordered the execution of a fool, this did not prevent the onset of capitalism.
      So it's too early to dream about communism, but we are now living in a transitional phase to socialism. For the main thing with him is control, and the Internet + gadgets provides an excellent tool for this.
  11. paul3390
    paul3390 12 December 2022 10: 36
    +6
    The author simply draws the wrong conclusions from the right premises. Socialism with Chinese characteristics is by no means an integration into the capitalist system. This is a protracted NEP. A means for building the economic basis of socialism.

    The main problem of the CCP was that it was a poverty-stricken country through and through. In which there was no industry, and as a result - the proletariat. Mao's attempt to build socialism based on the countryside failed completely according to the classics. Therefore, a powerful industry is needed. And where can I get it? They were going to follow the path of the Stalinist USSR - but then the Americans turned up very successfully. It was a sin not to take advantage of this .. And now - China has both industry and the proletariat.

    If you read Comrade Xi, he openly says that the economic basis has been built. You can start building socialism. Start building! This is on the topic of what kind of system is there in the PRC. In general, the Chinese comrades are spitting right on the founders, applying of course to modern realities ..

    I assure you - if Comrade Stalin had 40 years ahead and open bourgeois markets - most likely he would have gone exactly the same way. But he had 10 years for everything. And - only their hard-earned. So I had to act tough. And the Chinese were lucky - and now they have what they have.

    There is no need to present the leadership of the CCP as imbeciles, stupidly trudging along the path indicated by the West. They perfectly understand what and why they do. Unlike our top...
    1. filibuster
      filibuster 12 December 2022 11: 01
      -3
      The author simply draws the wrong conclusions from the right premises. Socialism with Chinese characteristics is by no means an integration into the capitalist system. This is a protracted NEP. A means for building the economic basis of socialism.


      If the NEP is so good and builds an economic basis, why change it to something else?
      1. paul3390
        paul3390 12 December 2022 12: 06
        +3
        Because the basis must be developed further, moreover, in the interests of the country and the people. And under capitalism, it will develop ironically for the benefit of the West.
        1. filibuster
          filibuster 12 December 2022 12: 17
          -3
          Whoever prevents it from developing in the interests of the country and the people, it doesn’t matter what capitalism / communism will be, these are completely different mechanisms that should work.
      2. Evgeny Ivanov_5
        Evgeny Ivanov_5 12 December 2022 22: 22
        -1
        The NEP, like capitalism as a whole, does not give a sharp and prolonged growth in industry and science in the shortest possible time. Everything happens slowly and sadly, since there is no need and no desire for the capitalist to rebuild production if the income goes anyway.
        Remember the fate of Blu-ray discs. How long ago did we observe the dramatic development of science and technology? We actually use upgraded technologies from 15 years ago. Well, a little more pixels, megahertz, gigabytes and so on.
        A spasmodic development of industry is possible or at a turning point (war, transition between social formations, forced development from scratch). That is why Stalin canceled the NEP. Otherwise, it was not possible to build a developed industry in 10 years.
        1. filibuster
          filibuster 12 December 2022 22: 32
          0
          The NEP, like capitalism as a whole, does not give a sharp and prolonged growth in industry and science in the shortest possible time. Everything happens slowly and sadly, since there is no need and no desire for the capitalist to rebuild production if the income goes anyway.

          You describe exactly the situation of a planned economy and socialism. The capitalist lives in a very competitive environment, and as he rebuilds both production and factories and conducts applied scientific research, you can see how computers, smartphones, etc. have changed over the past 40 years.
          And capitalism is so effective in terms of the growth of industry and science that it must be kept in check, otherwise it can quickly reach a crisis of overproduction and terrible income inequality and leaving a large number of people on the sidelines.

          Remember the fate of Blu-ray discs. How long ago did we observe the dramatic development of science and technology? We actually use upgraded technologies from 15 years ago. Well, a little more pixels, megahertz, gigabytes and so on.


          Well, yes, only every new pixel, megahertz, gigabyte is given at the cost of billions of investments in research and production.

          . That is why Stalin canceled the NEP. Otherwise, it was not possible to build a developed industry in 10 years.


          They didn’t build it from scratch, they bought it from the capitalists, but at the same time they lagged behind in development every year, simply because there was no such incentive for renewal and production as the capitalist had, look at how the auto industry developed in the USSR and in the USA / Europe / Japan .
          1. Foul skeptic
            Foul skeptic 13 December 2022 16: 31
            0
            simply because there was no such incentive in renewal and production as that of a capitalist

            You have an interesting manner of "persuasion" in your point of view. You don't figure out which is better, but you assign something as the best and then compare the features of that something with something else. And if they are different, then something else is worse.
            Tell us about the incentive for the renewal and production of the Swiss, Belgian, American, Chinese capitalists in the cobalt mines of Africa.
            1. filibuster
              filibuster 13 December 2022 16: 38
              0
              Tell us about the incentive for the renewal and production of the Swiss, Belgian, American, Chinese capitalists in the cobalt mines of Africa.


              The incentive is the same cost reduction, increase in production, increase in profits. And then everything depends on the “environment”, if this is the territory of the USA, Belgium, Switzerland where workers are in every possible way protected by laws, trade unions, etc., then they introduce new technologies, increase automation, if this is the territory of China or Africa, then they simply exploit workers more.
              1. Foul skeptic
                Foul skeptic 13 December 2022 16: 48
                0
                The stimulus is the same

                No, no, no, you gave a specific one as a comparison criterion:
                incentive to upgrade

                You wanted to talk about intensive qualitative development, since an update, so try to do this using the example of cobalt mining in the mines of Africa, for example, the Swiss Glencore.
                And then it all depends on the “environment” if it is the territory of the USA, Belgium, Switzerland

                and again we come to my yesterday's words:
                All "replayers" always forget one nuance - one should look at the "successes" of capitalism not by the G20 countries, but by "averaging" the "achievements" of the entire cap. world, because in some Haiti - also capitalism.
                1. filibuster
                  filibuster 13 December 2022 16: 54
                  -2
                  You wanted to talk about extensive qualitative development, since an update, so try to do this using the example of cobalt mining in the mines of Africa.


                  I already answered you above, it’s strange that you can’t understand the obvious thing, it seems that even in Soviet textbooks it was written that the main thing for a capitalist is profit, he makes all changes, updates, improvements only to make this profit, if you can make a profit and doing nothing else means it will, but if there is competition in the market and the capitalist still wants to make a profit, he is forced to react, again in different ways, he can kill a competitor if the “environment” allows, or he can start to improve quality, reduce cost price, etc.

                  All "replayers" always forget one nuance - one should look at the "successes" of capitalism not by the G20 countries, but by "averaging" the "achievements" of the entire cap. world, because in some Haiti - also capitalism.


                  Well, if you want to average it from the average temperature cycle for the hospital.
                  1. Foul skeptic
                    Foul skeptic 13 December 2022 17: 01
                    +1
                    but if there is competition in the market and the capitalist wants to still make a profit, he is forced to react

                    There is huge competition in the cobalt market in the era of battery devices. Tell us about the qualitative improvements in the process of its extraction in the mines of Africa in order to be more efficient than competitors. Without stories about what was written in Soviet textbooks.
                    Well, if you want to average it from the average temperature cycle for the hospital.

                    This is not for me. I understand what capitalism is.
                    1. filibuster
                      filibuster 13 December 2022 17: 19
                      0
                      There is huge competition in the cobalt market in the era of battery devices. Tell us about the qualitative improvements in the process of its extraction in the mines of Africa in order to be more efficient than competitors.


                      In Africa, the "environment" allows the use of slave child labor, and in Canada and Australia, when mining cobalt, the same capitalists are forced to reduce costs through more technological production.

                      This is not for me. I understand what capitalism is.


                      So why did they offer it then, otherwise it’s possible to average the USSR, Cambodia from the time of Pol Pot, China from the time of Mao.
                      1. Foul skeptic
                        Foul skeptic 13 December 2022 17: 44
                        0
                        In Africa, the "environment" allows the use of slave child labor

                        Oh, there it is, "environment" allows.
                        So why did they offer it then, otherwise it’s possible to average the USSR, Cambodia from the time of Pol Pot, China from the time of Mao.

                        I suggested it because you don't understand what capitalism is. And it is possible, and necessary, average, there will definitely be no harm from this to anyone. True, as soon as you find out whether it is possible to include in the list for averaging countries that have never built not only communism, but even socialism.
                      2. filibuster
                        filibuster 13 December 2022 17: 47
                        0
                        Oh, there it is, "environment" allows.


                        Well, capitalism does not exist in a vacuum, if circumstances allow the capitalist to do nothing and make a profit, this is exactly what he will do, in fact, live in a planned economy, as it was in the same USSR.

                        who have never built not only communism, but even socialism.


                        Yes, it is clear that they did not have the right communism and socialism.
                      3. Foul skeptic
                        Foul skeptic 13 December 2022 18: 17
                        0
                        Well, capitalism does not exist in a vacuum, if circumstances allow the capitalist to do nothing and make a profit, this is exactly what he will do, in fact, live in a planned economy, as it was in the same USSR.

                        In addition to a misunderstanding of capitalism, you decided to show off the same misunderstanding of the planned economy ...
                        Yes, it is clear that they did not have the right communism and socialism.

                        ...and communism with socialism.
                        PS So, in your opinion, in the example of cobalt mining in Africa, the capitalist does nothing? And you the fact of the predominance of prey where the "environment allows" drew itself (???), and has nothing to do with the actions of the capitalist?
                        PPS first write about
                        The stimulus is the same... increase profit.

                        and then the opposite
                        capitalist do nothing and make a profit

                        And it turns out, in practice, that in the matter of increasing profits, the capitalist scores even on the available progressive technologies, and chooses work in the mine for seven-year-old children. Because it's cheaper. A socialist cannot choose to work in the mine of seven-year-old children, and therefore he will simply be forced to develop and implement progressive technologies. And to compare two systems the way you do, putting one in deliberately unequal conditions - manipulation.
                      4. filibuster
                        filibuster 13 December 2022 18: 40
                        0
                        In addition to a misunderstanding of capitalism, you decided to show off the same misunderstanding of the planned economy ...


                        While you demonstrate complete inability to listen to your opponent.

                        And it turns out, in practice, that in the matter of increasing profits, the capitalist scores even on the available progressive technologies, and chooses work in the mine for seven-year-old children.


                        I have already written more than once that this is exactly the case if the conditions allow the capitalist to do anything, but if the conditions are such that you need to fight for profit, there is not enough space in the market, or he wants to capture an even larger market, then it is more efficient on the data there is no capitalist moment. And you can see the effectiveness of capitalism on the example of the development of the Internet, computers, microelectronics, in general, all that thanks to which we are now discussing here.


                        A socialist cannot choose to work in the mine of seven-year-old children, and therefore he will simply be forced to develop and implement progressive technologies.


                        Maybe an abstract socialist in a vacuum may not exist, but those who called themselves such, perfectly drove children to the cotton fields, bought milk from collective farmers at low prices, and then sold it with such a markup that any capitalist would envy.

                        And to compare two systems the way you do, putting one in deliberately unequal conditions - manipulation.


                        The conditions are really unequal, since capitalism at this stage is simply incomparably more effective than any version of communism / socialism that they tried to build, and the reason is banal in a person, he is not a bee or an ant, but a person.
                      5. ANB
                        ANB 13 December 2022 23: 29
                        0
                        . they bought milk from collective farmers at low prices, and then sold it with such a markup that any capitalist would envy.

                        Can I have an example with numbers?
                      6. ANB
                        ANB 14 December 2022 00: 04
                        0
                        https://docs.cntd.ru/document/765709786
                        This is a purchase. 220 rubles per ton. The store is about 24 kopecks per liter.
                      7. Foul skeptic
                        Foul skeptic 14 December 2022 17: 14
                        0
                        I have already written more than once that this is exactly the case if the conditions allow the capitalist to do anything, but if the conditions are such that you need to fight for profit, there is not enough space in the market, or he wants to capture an even larger market, then it is more efficient on the data there is no capitalist moment.

                        1) From the repetition of stupidity, it does not become not stupidity. Therefore, there is no point in repeating ... In my last post, I kind of clearly showed that you are contradicting yourself. Under capitalism and the incentive "increase in profits" (your words) conditions IS ALWAYS are such that "you need to fight for profit, there is not enough space in the market or he wants to capture an even larger market."
                        2) And again our example with the cobalt market. Are you saying that they don't fight for profits and markets? How funny you are. It is not difficult for me to repeat - And it turns out, in practice, that in the matter of increasing profits, the capitalist scores even on the available progressive technologies, and chooses seven-year-old children to work in the mine. By the way, I can explain to you why market players are forced to support production in "prosperous" countries, for example, in Australia, although this is more expensive)))))
                        3) Your interpretation of the concept of "efficiency" is something vague and inconsistent, adaptable to the argument.
                        4) It's like saying that if I can't grow my own food, but I can appropriate it from someone who has grown it, then I'm more "efficient" at farming.
                        And you can see the effectiveness of capitalism on the example of the development of the Internet, computers, microelectronics

                        1) It remains to explain what prevents the development of scientific and technical progress under socialism / communism. I foresee the answer - there is no incentive wassat
                        2) Everything you have listed is a wonderful example of the fact that if it were not for the "state", but for the "market", then we would not see the development of this very thing listed for a very long time. Because a breakthrough in development would be impossible without the transition from the concept of integrated circuits to the final product. And it was the US government that solved the problem of the cost of small batches through its Apollo program.
                        Maybe an abstract socialist in a vacuum may not exist, but those who called themselves such, perfectly drove children to the cotton fields, bought milk from collective farmers at low prices, and then sold it with such a markup that any capitalist would envy.

                        Directly breathed perestroika "Ogonyok" or post-perestroika "Komsomolskaya Pravda". Do you draw "knowledge" from such sources?
                        The conditions are really unequal, since capitalism at this stage is simply incomparably more effective than any version of communism / socialism that they tried to build

                        Some sort of mantra. Well, I already wrote about the problem of understanding the term "efficiency".
                        Does the obligatory presence of additional costs for the sale of products (for example, advertising wars) that are not needed (or insignificant) under a planned socialist economy increase "efficiency"? Okay, I'll know that increasing costs is synonymous with "efficiency."
                        Destroying products to control prices, creating short-lived products to meet demand, etc. increase "efficiency"? Okay, I'll know that the irrational use of resources is synonymous with "efficiency".
                        Tell us about the "growth of science" from the emergence of products such as a smartphone-connected handset, spinner, golden toilet paper, etc. Chris Mather in his work in 2014 obtained a gradient in the increase in the size of garbage islands in the ocean "10 times every decade." Where is the increase in labor productivity "10 times every decade"?
                        and the reason is banal in a person, he is not a bee and not an ant, but a person.

                        wassat lol
                        1) Raghuram Rajan and Luigi Zingales have a very good expression in their 2003 paper - save capitalism from the capitalists.
                        2) About personality - this is generally a shot in the leg. Glencore is very concerned about the personalities of the children who mine the cobalt for it. Their education, medical care, sanitary measures, raising the cultural level. They don't sleep at night.
    2. Keer
      Keer 13 December 2022 03: 42
      0
      The Chinese quite themselves followed the path of Comrade Stalin, with their cultural revolution. But then the confrontation between the USSR and the states turned up. Lucky case.
      1. Sergej1972
        Sergej1972 13 December 2022 11: 54
        0
        No, the "cultural revolution" is not at all in the spirit of Stalin's ideas.
    3. Eule
      Eule 13 December 2022 09: 37
      0
      The Chinese took advantage of the collapse of the USSR in order to obtain advanced and breakthrough technologies from

      Yes, nothing of the kind!
      In the 1990s, Chinese "businessmen" and bought Russian officials were transporting hand-operated machines and tools to China under the guise of scrap metal. And on these precise machines, the poor Chinese leisurely made parts of their CNC lines, crawling from one technological order to another.
      But China has something that the Russian Federation does not have - the death penalty for officials for embezzlement, thousands of executions a year.
      1. Sergej1972
        Sergej1972 13 December 2022 11: 56
        +1
        And the number of executions in China is decreasing every year, and the number of articles of the criminal code for which the death penalty is provided. Plus, they widely use "execution with a suspended sentence." In the vast majority of cases, it is not carried out.
  12. AdAstra
    AdAstra 12 December 2022 12: 14
    -1
    Well, yes, yes ... And the dollar will soon collapse and the West will finally rot.
  13. bath
    bath 12 December 2022 12: 29
    0
    "Things in the Chinese economy are getting worse..."




    1, isn't that common sense? We all know that everything has an objective law, and it is impossible to maintain a strong momentum forever, otherwise the solar system will not be able to accommodate China.

    2, the entire world economy is in decline, and the West's economy is now no better than China's. Even in comparison, China's economy is still growing faster than the West's.
  14. Former soldier
    Former soldier 12 December 2022 17: 21
    -1
    A local war will only slow down the crisis, a global war will destroy the world along with its crises. The history of civilization will begin again somewhere in the period of the birth of capitalism. And everything will be repeated from the beginning. But there is another way - the development of general equal rights of nations and working conditions. Then friction between countries is possible, but without wars, and with very slow economic growth, and not in terms of volume, but in terms of quality.
    1. Eule
      Eule 13 December 2022 09: 40
      0
      I would like to hope, but it has already happened, and it has not happened yet. Without the total sweeping away from the planet of all "professional-national managers", priests and other brain parasites, nothing will come of it again. They will crawl into power, change ideals, decompose the population.
      So we are waiting for the return from the fronts of the Wagnerites on this side and the "Mozart groups" on that side, maybe they will do something, as in 1918.
  15. Viktor Sergeev
    Viktor Sergeev 12 December 2022 18: 45
    -1
    Can you give examples of roads to nowhere and empty cities?
    1. Alf
      Alf 12 December 2022 20: 15
      +1
      Quote: Victor Sergeev
      Can you give examples of roads to nowhere and empty cities?

      https://hightech.fm/2021/11/03/chinas-ghost-cities
      1. Eule
        Eule 13 December 2022 09: 42
        -1
        How else?
        Dams built out of nowhere in a swamp through the great Chinese rivers have an unknown margin of safety and resource. If one collapses, then the survivors of the flood will be calmly and centrally settled in the already built cities, and new jobs will be quickly built around them in empty workshops.
  16. Andrei from Chelyabinsk
    Andrei from Chelyabinsk 12 December 2022 19: 04
    +6
    Even before the covid panic, China's debt was simply enormous: according to various estimates, from 300 to over 800% of GDP.

    Became interesting. I look at the IMF data, the forecast for 2022, GDP at PPP is as much as 32 trillion. dollars and public debt - 21 trillion. That is, the public debt is somewhere around 66% of GDP. I look at take-profit.org - it shows the ratio of China's public debt to its GDP at 71%
    And that's all you need to know about Samsonov's economic analytics laughing
    1. Evgeny Ivanov_5
      Evgeny Ivanov_5 12 December 2022 22: 08
      +1
      The whole idea of ​​the article is voiced in the last paragraph. Everything else can be ignored.
  17. Evgeny Ivanov_5
    Evgeny Ivanov_5 12 December 2022 22: 06
    +1
    Crap. I thought Skomorokhov wrote this, and this is another gravedigger of the world. Is it now fashionable to write on the topic "everything is lost"? I have only one question for the authors. Why did they lose everything only with what is connected with Russia and each article ends with a call for the destruction of Carthage? Can this be regarded as a call for revolution or for a return to the camp of Western countries?
  18. acetophenone
    acetophenone 12 December 2022 22: 11
    +2
    It is worth paying attention to the meeting of Chinese President Xi Jinping in November 2022 with US President Joe Biden. The Chinese leader said:

    "Our planet is large enough to allow China and the United States to independently develop and prosper together."

    That is, the hopes of a part of our public for an alliance with the Celestial Empire within the framework of the domination of the current Western, liberal model in the Russian Federation is decay and a dangerous illusion.
    No, well, what did he expect to hear in negotiations with the United States? It is clear that Uncle Xi will say one thing to them, another thing with Russia, and do what he sees fit. Because in power in China now pro-Chinese management.
  19. Private SA
    Private SA 12 December 2022 22: 19
    +1
    Chinese firms will have to be more active PDF files for the description of microcircuits and
    lay out industrial electronics devices. So that I order quickly
    could do. And then I know that there is a Chinese analogue of the American microcircuit,
    but you can't find any info on it...
  20. Oleg Barchev
    Oleg Barchev 12 December 2022 23: 17
    -1
    For reference: The external debt of the United States exceeded $2022 trillion in 31, and the domestic debt of households exceeded $160 trillion. dollars. Now I would like to see the figures for China, something tells me that China is doing somewhat better with debts. The Americans solve their problems by "cannibalizing their vassals and, above all, Europe." After the transfer of high-tech industry from Europe to the USA, we get a situation similar to the mid-late 30s of the 20th century, when the USA was "the world's factory and engine of technological progress" in an economic crisis. To get out of this crisis, a big war was needed in Europe, and it began in 1939. Perhaps one of these options is being implemented now, when, as a result of the economic crisis, Europe will be ready to go to the East in 3-4 years.
  21. dfk-80
    dfk-80 13 December 2022 07: 19
    +1
    China may even be obliged to afford a debt of at least 100-500 thousand% of GDP. Otherwise, they are suckers, about which they will wipe their feet a little later.
    But there is a question to the data: from 300 to 800% is the debt of exactly whom and to whom? States? Business? population? Your own banks or someone else's? Has the US debt to China been taken into account? What about other countries? In short, another lie / statistics.
  22. Vladimir Ruzhansky
    Vladimir Ruzhansky 13 December 2022 08: 40
    +1
    In my opinion, this is an overly simplified interpretation of the processes taking place in the Chinese economy. First, the time when China was the factory of the West is long gone. Today, the Chinese comrades are betting on the fifth industrial revolution, which is now in full swing in the PRC. And, moreover, today China is a recognized leader in this area also due to the fact that it owns a significant share of the resources necessary for the manufacture of equipment for smart things, houses, cities - rare earth metals (this should also include Mongolia, whose export is primarily focused on to China).
    Secondly, since 2001, the Chinese have been spending significant amounts not only on road construction, but primarily on science. They perfectly understand that without science there will be neither production nor prosperity. The rate of a Chinese university teacher is 6 hours. The rest of the time the teacher devotes to scientific research. Duty? Well, debts can always be forgiven to those who owe them, especially when it comes to such a giant as China. As far as Taiwan is concerned, China's demands are absolutely fair. And the main problem is not in Taiwan at all, but in who will control the revived Great Silk Road - the West or China and Russia. In five years, China will be ready to resolve this issue not only by diplomatic, but also by force. So, not everything is so clear with the situation in China.
    1. Sergej1972
      Sergej1972 13 December 2022 12: 02
      0
      In Chinese universities, especially in the humanities, there are also "pure" popularizing teachers who are not particularly involved in science. These are also needed in the higher education system.
  23. Illanatol
    Illanatol 13 December 2022 09: 17
    0
    Quote from Gromit
    According to the latest data from the Bank for International Settlements (BIS), total loans to China's non-financial sector reached $51,87 trillion in the second quarter, which is almost three times the country's GDP (295%). According to the Japanese agency Nikkei, this level of debt is the highest for China since 1995.


    And what was so terrible that happened in China in 1995?
    Indebtedness of the real sector is the norm in our time. Enterprises need working capital, and more and more, so they take loans. The more active the production, the more credits are needed.
    That is why the Russian Federation's debt load is noticeably lower - our industry operates at a lower speed than the Chinese one.
    But these percentages are nothing. It is important to know the terms of lending, as well as who lends. If their own, Chinese banks are one thing. And if foreign moneylenders - a completely different story.
    1. bath
      bath 13 December 2022 09: 56
      0
      And what was so terrible that happened in China in 1995?


      For the average business worker, losing a job is still terrible. A breakdown of the institution's inherent and perks. All state-owned enterprises that should have gone bankrupt went bankrupt, and all those who should have lost their jobs.

      But China actually laid the foundation for this mass unemployment for years, encouraging people in the 80s to start their own business and have a market economy. Don't stay in a rigid body. At that time, the workers felt abandoned by the country.


      But now she has proved her success. People discovered for themselves that this is the best deed, bringing unimaginable results at that time.


      We in China are now laughing at Yeltsin's "shock therapy", which we have always seen as a classic failure of pro-Western, sycophantic, magical Western doctors treating our country, only to be strategically deceived and divided, as in the case of Russia, which from superpower has become a highly offensive "regional power", "Saudi Arabia with nuclear weapons".


      We Chinese see all this, and I would not trust the Anglo-Saxons and Jewish swindlers. As warm and fluffy as their media is, we all know that these people are a bunch of conspirators and liars. They should be hung up.
  24. flyer
    flyer 13 December 2022 09: 51
    0
    It is obvious that the consumer society, which was brought up in Europe, North America and Russia, does not need so many goods from China, but, unfortunately, it is not profitable for the Chinese to produce less.
  25. Negro
    Negro 13 December 2022 10: 03
    0
    I see in the text "Russian achievements in space" - has Samsonov already reached China?

    I scroll down - he, dear!
  26. the same doctor
    the same doctor 13 December 2022 12: 28
    +1
    Unlike ours, deceived, China is controlled by adequate people. They are unrestrained exports and numbers on the accounts over the hill are not critical. The Chinese took technology and equipment from the world, paid for them, and now why do they need extra growth rates? To provide for oneself, to secure the import of resources and to seize deposits of raw materials around the world.
    Why would they ruin their own country if there is nowhere to invest profits? Why do they need extra dollars, if foreign countries cannot sell the available goods?
    I expect China to change its strategy with a turn towards satisfying domestic consumers and developing its own science and culture.
  27. garik77
    garik77 13 December 2022 16: 29
    +1
    Something is not noticeable that China has "lost everything" laughing On the contrary, everything is going uphill!
  28. Jyt
    Jyt 13 December 2022 21: 03
    0
    The end? This is the end of all bourgeois fascism that has grown throughout the USSR. And there the CCP, and not the bourgeois fascists, there are not those who made the Maidan in 2014, and even less those who did it in 1993, although the difference between these two is not big, both are not legal. And the PRC Communist Party will decide everything, and will not ruin the country and make a civil war, and will not destroy the factories and will not think how to sell their homeland at a higher price and will not decide their pensions for 5 years for their elderly citizens
  29. certero
    certero 14 December 2022 01: 00
    +1
    I would like to ask the author of the article where he got the figures about 300% of China's debt to GDP?
    Well, the second question about the magnificent highways leading to nowhere - where does it come from?
  30. Alexander of Alexandria
    Alexander of Alexandria 14 December 2022 04: 51
    0
    The Chinese are smart. If they started looking for friendship with the United States, then they really need something from them
  31. Leonid67
    Leonid67 14 December 2022 07: 56
    +1
    when Russia, Ukraine and the EU were appointed the “weak link”

    Well, the United States is excellent at grinding down the "Russian world" with war and the emigration of the youngest and most able-bodied population in a demographic hole. The Russian elites, like a donkey after a carrot, are step by step following the plan outlined by the United States to eliminate sovereignty and redistribute our resources in their favor, and all thanks to the Kremlin elite, which is guided for the most part by non-state officials. interests, but the interests of personal gain, such are easy to manipulate. Personally, I am inclined to believe that even under Putin, all this theatre of absurdity will somehow puff, and 10-15 years after his death, Russia is in real danger of collapse .. And in principle, I don’t understand how I blew so many moments, being driven into a corner , you can somehow turn everything back, having, moreover, in the power of naphthalene marketers from the 90s working for the sake of the report. I would love to be wrong recourse
  32. Alebedev
    Alebedev 14 December 2022 15: 34
    0
    There is no dispute. China's economy has grown impressively over the past 20 years.
    However, at what cost...
    Who has been to China in recent years?
    Have you seen what nature has become there? It feels like it's over there.
    And this nature has been created for millions of years....
    In short, I don’t know what is better: an advanced economy or normal nature, to which, by the way, man also belongs ...
    1. Kuziming
      Kuziming 18 December 2022 23: 22
      0
      Forests are being restored at an accelerated pace. The peak of the ecological nightmare has been passed.
  33. cat-begemot
    cat-begemot 14 December 2022 22: 47
    +1
    Quote: napalm
    Quote from Romanovski
    ""... Things are getting worse in the Chinese economy ...... This allowed China to become the No. 2 economic superpower, catching up and even overtaking America in places ....."".
    ----------
    The author made a mistake with the address .... It is in the USA and the EU that problems are brewing in the economy and in the social sphere INEVITABLY, like the sunrise ... In Russia, many couch strategists have divorced who do not feed with bread, but let them slyly "cry" about an unenviable fate FLOWERING and STRENGTHENING in ALL(!) areas of China's economy and military-industrial complex. The question is - and on whose mill (probably Western? ...) do such "analysts" pour water ??? This is reminiscent of how, in the zero years, Russian consumers, spoiled by abundance, spoke with arrogant snobbery about Chinese goods (in particular, about the nascent auto industry and not only ...) - like the Chinese have a thin gut to aim at European quality and famous brands. Well, where is the US and EU auto industry, unlike the Chinese one ??? The quality of Chinese goods over the past 10 years has caught up and ALREADY in many segments is higher than the quality of European goods .... Russian lovers of washing the bones of Chinese goods of well-known manufacturers have somehow waned in recent years ... That's when the same level of social JUSTICE is reached in the Russian Federation ( yes ... exactly), hard work, LEGALITY and ORDER, REASONABLE and INCENTIVE (!! ... YES, imagine, Russian legislators and bureaucrats, that in nature there are such taxes, and not just predatory ones ...), THE STRICTEST , BRUTAL and INEVITABLE (!) PUNISHMENT for werewolves in epaulettes and ties and their ward leaders from organized crime groups in tattoos (in the Russian Federation - this is so-so so far, that is, there are more declarations on paper than real landings and punishments ... That's when the death penalty is RESTORED for especially dangerous crimes, then we'll see ...).

    Here, some comrades tore their vests and said that the Chinese would never be able to make aircraft engines on their own. They would only buy from Russia. They already refuse, they put their own.

    I’ll upset you. They put it, but, firstly, they were made according to the documentation from 404, and secondly, the declared resource is almost 10 times lower than ours. For guaranteed development of aviation, a SCHOOL is needed, and these are decades and hundreds of unsuccessful models with a few successful ones. And here money practically does not solve anything, in order to train a designer it is necessary that there are a couple of generations of such designers.
  34. Kuziming
    Kuziming 18 December 2022 23: 20
    -1
    "He doesn't need gold when a simple product has."
    China flourishes and grows rich
    Eats in abundance, and therefore,
    He doesn't need dollars
    If he has any product.
  35. t200404
    t200404 18 December 2022 23: 49
    -1
    China needs resources and a little bit of technology from us. Everything .
  36. Kostadinov
    Kostadinov 19 December 2022 16: 33
    0
    The Chinese economy is getting worse.

    Not the end but the beginning of a real Chinese miracle, after getting rid of ties with the US and the EU and strengthening ties with Russia and the third world.
    And the beginning of an economic disaster for the US and the EU without the exploitation of China, Russia and the rest of the world.
  37. zenion
    zenion 21 December 2022 15: 53
    -1
    It's nothing that my house burned down, but the neighbor's toilet was scorched from above. No need to look for good. Then you begin to think what kind of life it is, it is not a pity to give it away. And why should I give my life for the one who robbed me? In the end, at all times people came to such thoughts, why the hell should I give my life for this thief and his power. How many uprisings have been and will be again. All science fiction writers write about this, there will be uprisings, without them there is no advancement of life, natural selection.