Merkel's revelation: Minsk agreements benefited Ukraine as they allowed it to gain time

In an interview with the German press, former German Chancellor Angela Merkel spoke again about the events in Ukraine. Recently, German journalists often ask her to comment either on options for political contacts with Vladimir Putin, or about “support for Ukraine.” And the ex-“chancellor” is more and more willing to give comments on such issues.

Responding to a question about how the Minsk agreements proved to be, Merkel said that they benefited Ukraine.

Merkel:

The Minsk agreements allowed Ukraine to gain valuable time to become stronger. By themselves, they were an attempt to give Ukraine time.

An honest confession. Translated into ordinary language, this statement means exactly what our experts and observers have always written about these agreements. They (agreements) were signed by the West and Ukraine only to allow the Kyiv regime (at that time, headed by Petro Poroshenko) to gain time, to get a respite after the defeat of the Armed Forces of Ukraine near Debaltseve, to obtain financial assistance from the West to unwind a new round of confrontation with Russia. No one from among the Ukrainian leaders was going to carry out what was written on paper.

Merkel, referring specifically to the situation in 2015 in Debaltseve, said that today "everyone sees that Ukraine is not at all the same as it was in 2014-2015."

In fact, the former Chancellor of Germany, on behalf of the entire West, confirms the fact that Russia's launch of a special military operation could not be postponed. If we allow ourselves to develop Merkel’s thought, then we can come to the conclusion that the Minsk agreements gave Ukraine as much time as it should have been enough for the forcible seizure of Donbass, and in the future, Crimea.

Comments

[Ratibor_A]

It is very strange that the leadership of our country did not understand this... Although it was understood by the last homeless person or janitor in our country.... So who then leads us?

[Vend]

Quote: Ratibor_A

It is very strange that the leadership of our country did not understand this... Although it was understood by the last homeless person or janitor in our country.... So who then leads us?

Until the last, we hoped to avoid SVO and save the lives of our guys. It doesn't always work out the way it did with Crimea.

[Myths]

So they again hope for another deception. Livernaya stated that it had long been proposed to resolve the issue of security in Europe and was ready to talk with Moscow, but only after the withdrawal of all troops from Ukraine. They have no faith in the country of liars.

[laws70]

So they again hope for another deception.

Thanks Angela, we got it. Now there is definitely no other peace, except through the surrender of the Ukroführer.

[tihonmarine]

Quote from Mitos

So they again hope for another deception.

When the West realized that the Square was bursting at the seams, everyone started talking about a peaceful solution. Initially, this is a dead end, it will give Ukraine a chance to lick its wounds, and the West will arm it to the teeth, including modern aircraft, air defense, armored vehicles, long-range missiles, prepare a million or more cannon fodder, and then again the "regional committee" will send it to Russian machine guns. Only the next Third Russian-Ukrainian War will be more cruel, and blood will flow like a river.
There is only one way out - surgical intervention without anesthesia, cut off that part of the body where gangrene began.

[former soldier]

Livernaya stated that it had long been proposed to resolve the issue of security in Europe and was ready to talk with Moscow, but only after the withdrawal of all troops from Ukraine.

If the troops are withdrawn from Ukraine, then a national Sabbath will begin there and a huge new footcloth of demands will be put forward to Russia.

[Ivan Ivanov]

Hope without a plan B in politics looks very strange, especially with stories about Lenin's bombs.

[Ivan Ivanov]

Well, by the way, one can partly agree with the idea of ​​a bomb. It is clear that Lenin acted from the position, but to support and strengthen a speculative ethnos on a territorial-estate basis for the sake of current goals is not the best idea, because it was possible to create a "Don Cossack" and a Novgorod republic with a Novgorod ethnos and Pomeranian autonomy, especially since reasons are easy to find. Why, in general, this particular one stood out from the many Ukrainians / outskirts of the Polish, Lithuanian, Russian, Turkish states, it is not clear.

[Alexander Salenko]

You can, but can I address you verbally in Ukrainian, will you understand a lot of things? Well, perhaps somehow this should be taken into account do not agree? And if you take into account that no John Cossacks will appear, I will be the first to ridicule her. Do you think Putin recognized the Ukrainian language in Crimea as the state language? Nobody speaks like that in our country, we don’t need him, but by putting pressure on the fact that your people do not exist, you cause contradictions.
The best contract, I will explain to you, when our troops partially liberated the Kherson region, the Kherson farmers went to our markets, kicking the Azerbaijanis out of there. Do you understand my point?

[Ivan Ivanov]

About the origin of the ethnos, in the case of Ukraine - about the origin of the community, you need to speak honestly, and to be honest, we come to the Dnieper Cossacks and the hetmanate (15-16-17 centuries), and already in this context to talk about some "big differences" between us and associated with them the need for "independent nenki". Reasoning with a high degree of probability can lead to a simple conclusion - what is all this fuss about Ukrainianism for, which is why the modern history of Ukraine is a thick mixture of outright lies and fantasies.

[Alexander Salenko]

Well, there was a different history of Ukraine, not written by modern silkworms, and not only Cossacks lived on its territory, and not even so much. By brushing this aside, we provide food for all sorts of writers. Of course, we had quirks at the university when we seriously considered the question of whether or not the Zaporizhzhya Cossacks had submarines and on this topic in one magazine, but in different issues, 4 articles were published. The latter buried the previous three, if briefly its essence - what kind of nonsense.
The fact that history is taught by them is fake, it’s like taking the myth of the Holodomor, or mythology blooms around the Cossacks, but I assure you that it is not taught in schools that the Ukrainians dug up the Black Sea.
Do we ourselves have few alternatives? Even here on VO in the history section they are printed. And from Arkaim you can laugh just as well as from seafarers.
And if you want not to create a problem, but to solve it, then you need to start with the fact that the hell with you, you are magical snowflakes. But look how it turned out for the independents and how those who were in the damned empire did.
Do not post fakes, as Taras Shevchenko explained to one person that he was not a Russophobe, and the word Muscovite meant soldier. Those. do not fall in love with the soldiers of the women, because they will sail and leave. Someone launches this into the masses and whose mill is pouring water?
And to tell that Shevchenko would have remained a Selyuk if his drawings had not been examined by Russian nobles and redeemed from serfdom, he was considered precisely as an artist and not as a poet. And the fact that the soldiers were later sent so did not draw the Empress in an indecent form. And after all, in soldiers, not in hard labor
It is necessary to say that no matter how Bogdan Khmelnitsky fluttered, he was forced to join Russia and then everything worked out. They tried to really spoil his son and others, so to remind that this period is called the Ruin by them themselves.
And so on points, I would like to add about such Little Russians as Chancellor Bezborodko and Elizabeth's husband Kirill Razumovsky. Where the most weighty political figures in the history of Ukraine have developed right here, in the empire.
And you bring outright losers like Mazepa and Bandera to the banners. and you can talk as much as you like about the formation of the first, but he is a loser. And the second, and even more so, ask questions about him and what was his political program? Yes, it is not there, one fight, and with everyone at once.

But we don’t have this counter-propaganda and it wouldn’t hurt inside the country, let’s remember the recent scandal with the Yermak airport, he, Yermak, you know, offends the feelings of the Siberian Tatars and the authorities grimaced it with giblets, but in fact this is a speech against the annexation of the Siberian to Russia khanates - natural separatism. There are more examples in Tatarstan, and about Ingria, about 12 years ago I read separatist encroachments.
All these people, including Ukrainians, need to be shown that you have a strange love for the losers. Ivan the Terrible had all the rights to Siberia by feudal law as a descendant of Genghis Khan, if anything. And who is Khan Kuchum?

[Ivan Ivanov]

As for the language, if you turn to me in the Pomor and even Ryazan dialect of two centuries ago, I will also understand little. I recently watched about the dialects of the Russian north (Murmansk, Arkhangelsk) If you wish, I assure you, you can create a "northern language", and then, on this basis, start Ukrainian there, especially if you engage in active language building, which is now happening in Ukraine.

[Alexander Salenko]

It is possible, and they speak the same way in the Kuban as in the Kherson region, but, for example, Western Ukrainians can be understood with difficulty and not because of Polish words, as they like to say, although they are there, but because of the pronunciation. But the territory of Ukraine, without cutting Novorossia to it, was under the Poles and yet developed differently. And the lack of general secondary education for a long time led to this result. Take the French, they have developed there like the French, although they also have their own Gascons and Bretons. But in our country this only developed in Soviet times, and if this factor is not taken into account, then it can explode in the future.

[uralex]

With Crimea, it happened because the West was at a loss and did not expect such a step from Russia and was not ready to intervene, it thought that they would put pressure on sanctions - and that would be enough ... But with Donbass, such a scheme has not worked for us.

[Vend]

Quote: uralex

With Crimea, it happened because the West was at a loss and did not expect such a step from Russia and was not ready to intervene, it thought that they would put pressure on sanctions - and that would be enough ... But with Donbass, such a scheme has not worked for us.

It's not about the west. In Crimea, 80-90% supported reunification with Russia, and in Donbass in 2014, the first demands were for federalization and Russian as the second state language. And then the whole of Ukraine was divided into two camps, like the Russian Empire into the Civil. In the Donbass, even now they are betraying their neighbors, bringing them under the blows of the Armed Forces of Ukraine.

[opuonmed]

the west led to this in advance! but then the Donbass stood up and ukrrrr was not taken into NATO and the West decided to play differently, fill up ukrrr with weapons and give money, although this way and that this game would have started on ukrrr and the locals, like greens, they somehow violet for someone else’s life, that is, I don’t care how many they die ! Zelya and others were made elected and accepted into the Western family, which is why they demand and give them and even allow Masons to criticize Western politicians what to take from them)))) and made them a battering ram against the Russian Federation! and the Russian Federation has a simple way out to destroy enemies

[jdiver]

or because the West needed to buy time. Russia had in its hands the legitimate president of Ukraine and the ability to take half of Ukraine without a fight under the support of a large number of the population. And make the ATO in western Ukraine instead of Donbass. Therefore, we went to an agreement and won ukre 8 years of brainwashing the population and the formation of the necessary military tools. And now they don’t really want to make an agreement because they prepared well, the one who sucks is begging for an agreement

[opuonmed]

why didn’t they prepare for this if they saw and knew ???

[jdiver]

or save your assets abroad, yacht business real estate and the opportunity to go there regularly. anything can be even the most impossible :)

[smart ass]

What is this article about? About the fact that Lavrov was fucked again?

[Ivan Ivanov]

It is important whose policy Lavrov is pursuing, his own or the president's.

[Ka-52]

Although this was understood by the last bum or janitor with us ....

homeless people and janitors are certainly people who deserve recognition for their expert abilities
In fact, the conclusion in the article is not true. Russia benefited from the presence of a smoldering conflict in the east of Ukraine according to the Karabakh scenario. Europe benefited from the presence of conflict on the western borders of Russia. The interests of Ukraine, its restoration and something else there - it's all nonsense and bullshit, they were not taken into account by anyone.
of course, if (if yes, if everyone is strong in hindsight) to carry out the NMD in 2014, then the armed forces of Ukraine would be in a more deplorable state, and the level of motivation would be lower. But then the seizure of the territory of Ukraine was not the number one task. They did not dare to plunge the country into war then (my personal opinion was that they hoped to preserve the remnants of Europe-Russia ties). It was considered that the risks of all kinds of losses (economic, political, etc.) are greater than the returns from achieving goals by military means. Therefore, writing about the opinion of homeless people and janitors is at least stupid.

[Vasilenko Vladimir]

Quote: Ka-52

Russia benefited from the presence of a smoldering conflict in the east of Ukraine according to the Karabakh scenario.

one question what?

[Ka-52]

the conflict on the territory of Ukraine slowed down the integration processes of Ukraine into European economic and military structures. It is obvious.

[Vasilenko Vladimir]

Quote: Ka-52

It is obvious.

this is absolutely not obvious, a simple example is georgia, since 8 years there has been no war but ...

[Ka-52]

this is absolutely not obvious, a simple example is georgia, since 8 years there has been no war but ...

well, colleague, try to move your brains: Georgia wanted to integrate into the EU and NATO. A territorial conflict arose on its territory. Ukraine wanted to integrate into the EU and NATO - a territorial conflict arose on its territory. We also have our own policy. And since NATO is using aggressive methods, we have to use the same

[2 Level Advisor]

Quote: Ka-52

Georgia wanted to integrate into the EU and NATO. A territorial conflict arose on its territory.

and Crimea was no longer a conflict interfering with joining somewhere? and without Donbass? and Abkhazia has not been since the 90s? Yes, and South Ossetia did not appear in 2008 ...
so, in this role, there was no point ...

[Ka-52]

and Abkhazia has not been since the 90s? Yes, and South Ossetia did not appear in 2008 ...

and why did you stop halfway in the reasoning? Well, there was South Ossetia for the time being. But if Russia hadn't intervened, South Ossetia would have been a region within Georgia long ago. And then it would have come to Abkhazia. And having restored its integrity, Georgia would calmly take up registration of its registration in NATO. It seems that you slept in the den in 2008 and the time preceding it. The republics would not have survived without the cover of Russia.

[2 Level Advisor]

no-no .. let's build on your words .. you said Georgia wanted to join NATO / EU - it got ter. problems .. and Abkhazia, South Ossetia long before these problems were and would interfere with this procedure (since 1993) ...
You said -

Quote: Ka-52

Ukraine wanted to integrate into the EU and NATO - a territorial conflict arose on its territory.

so Crimea was already enough for this, but Ukraine didn’t recognize it as part of the Russian Federation, which means NATO / EU didn’t shine for it ..
You said that -

Quote: Ka-52

Russia benefited from the presence of a smoldering conflict in the east of Ukraine according to the Karabakh scenario.

Quote: Ka-52

the conflict on the territory of Ukraine slowed down the integration processes of Ukraine into European economic and military structures.

so I answered you that Crimea was quite enough for this task ...

[Ka-52]

no-no .. let's build on your words ..

I answered you in my previous comment. Try to get to the bottom of it. Without Russia, Georgia would have had at least one less territorial problem now. You probably overslept last year's Karabakh conflict?

so I answered you that Crimea was quite enough for this task ...

about the Crimea - I answered below to another interlocutor, there is no desire to repeat

[Vasilenko Vladimir]

Quote: Ka-52

Don't be Russia

if my grandmother had...

[Alexander Salenko]

It makes sense. The story with Crimea is not very simple, let me remind you that a base was being built in Novorossiysk with the expectation that the Black Sea Fleet would leave Sevastopol.

[Vasilenko Vladimir]

Quote: Ka-52

A territorial conflict arose on its territory.

apparently you need to move, the Georgian-Abkhazian and Georgian-Ossetian conflict began in 92

[Ka-52]

read my comment above. And move your brains, do not refuse to train your mind. Sometimes, before writing, it is worth thinking - what caused the war on 08.08.08?

[Alexander Salenko]

It is not clear why you were downvoted, I put a plus, an opinion was expressed, you need to either argue with him or step aside.

[Ivan Ivanov]

well, colleague, try to move your brains: Georgia wanted to integrate into the EU and NATO. A territorial conflict arose on its territory. Ukraine wanted to integrate into the EU and NATO - a territorial conflict arose on its territory
No one forced Georgia to unleash a war with Ossetia and kill peacekeepers, just like Ukraine - no one forced them to bomb the Donbass. Those. there is no need to expose Georgia and Dill as a victim. Another point - you really want to join the EU, supposedly the conflict with the territories interferes, there are two ways
1. give up territories and quickly enter with what you have,
2. integrate them with a compromise and enter entirely.
Both opportunities for Georgia and Ukraine were achievable.

But the RF sanctions war and the Nazi abscess at hand was the last thing needed.

[Andobor]

Quote: Vasilenko Vladimir

one question what?

Without the conflict near Kharkov, the American strategic systems would already be standing.

[Vasilenko Vladimir]

you do not understand what stupidity froze?!!!
It was beneficial for Russia to disperse this den in 14, and no matter what mattress strategists stood near Kharkov

[Alexander Salenko]

The fact that it is smoldering and the problem can be postponed. Remember Transnistria.

[Vasilenko Vladimir]

a debugged problem is not a plus, but in this particular case a huge minus
1) the problem is not solved
2) the enemy was allowed to strengthen
result as they say on the face

[Alexander Salenko]

And would we have decided in 14 we would have strengthened? Recall how the sanctions hit then and how they didn’t hit now, well, they obviously worked with less effect, although they themselves were the largest in history.

[strannik1985]

But the combat effectiveness of the Armed Forces of Ukraine is, as it were, not an order of magnitude higher, as a result, we have a war lasting 2-3 years with an unclear result.

[Alexander Salenko]

Or a tightly collapsed economy, are you sure it's better? Remember the 90s and how many people died then without any war, even if we exclude Chechnya? I hasten to inform you that there was such a dependence on products, on agriculture in general, that we bought bull semen abroad.
And if you remember the beginning of the war in the Donbass, then the soldiers of the Armed Forces of Ukraine did not want to fight then, they would immediately want as soon as the Russian army entered, there would be a slogan: we were attacked.
It is a big mistake to think that the Ukrainians have been reforged in 8 years, everything has only intensified for them. And it happened with Crimea, but because it was not Ukrainian, I’m telling you this as a Crimean. So in other regions, the Crimean experience would not have worked out, and the garrisons of Crimea for the most part consisted of Crimeans, both conscripts and command staff.

[Vasilenko Vladimir]

Quote: Alexander Salenko

Or a tightly collapsed economy,

why?!!!!!

[Alexander Salenko]

I sort of said that there were problems with food, oil fell, the ruble rolled, this time it wasn’t so feverish. WWI is often remembered here, and so Russia is a unique country, it lost to the losing side and collapsed precisely in the rear.

[Vasilenko Vladimir]

Quote: Alexander Salenko

food problems

who?!!

Quote: Alexander Salenko

oil fell, the ruble rolled, this time it wasn’t so feverish

let's be honest, all these dances with the ruble have nothing to do with the market

[Alexander Salenko]

It is to the market that they dance with rubles, if not to the real sector. but do you know how many different things Russia imported? Remind me how Lukashenka used it?

[strannik1985]

Or a tightly collapsed economy

Due to what? We are talking about 2014, not the 90s.

And if you remember the beginning of the war in the Donbass

Wanting is not enough, you still need to be able. Before the second Maidan, none of the political forces was interested in the real combat effectiveness of the Armed Forces of Ukraine, but now, for 8 years, they have prepared ideological cadres who are ready to fight to the last Ukrainian. Georgia, after all, was also offered a similar option, blowing up the tunnels, the border crossing to Abkhazia, shelling the entrance to the Roki tunnel with artillery, but the Georgians themselves did not accept this option. But now this possibility has been taken into account.

And with Crimea

Do not remind the number of the RF Armed Forces in the Crimea?

[Alexander Salenko]

Due to what? We are talking about 2014, not the 90s.

See above, as well as about 8 years of military training. It is often written here that we were poorly prepared, I constantly saw the military either going to the exercises, or going from them, I wander around the peninsula a lot, therefore I see. And sometimes I hear how they shoot at the firing ranges, maybe it’s not like that for someone, but it’s like that for us.

Do not remind the number of the RF Armed Forces in the Crimea?

I don’t remember, but if, together with the fleet, in fact, everything is subordinate to the Black Sea Fleet, then it turns out decently.

[strannik1985]

See above, as well as about 8 years of military training.

If in 2014 a regular army would have been enough, now it is in full swing, with mobilization, deployment of units to the full state and other fun. And while at the forefront they are grinding in the rear they are preparing new cannon fodder. Zelensky, if necessary, at least a million will call.

I don’t remember, but if, together with the fleet, in fact, everything is subordinate to the Black Sea Fleet, then it turns out decently.

Here is the answer why there is one result in the Crimea, and another in the Donbass.

[Alexander Salenko]

Who told you about a higher combat capability? Well, the soldiers were trained, but where the commanders of platoons, battalions and companies will be taken, and staff workers, there is one staff culture, this is not a joke.
Do you seriously think that the army is being recreated in 8 years? Let me just remind you that the creation of a regular army in Russia lasted for more than a century, it is usually associated with Peter, but it began before him and continued after.
If you say that they have 8 years of combat experience and they let a lot of military through the ATO, but after 2015 this is a very specific combat experience, the fight of artillery, DRG, yes, they have become adept here. But they pushed through our defenses in bulk.

[strannik1985]

Who told you about a higher combat capability?

They have “advisers” commanding from brigades and above; by 2022, 407 thousand people were driven through the civilian one. The nuance is that these troops, in the overwhelming majority, are of low quality, but there are many of them, they will send more to replace them (there are enough junk in NATO countries), which is why a quick defeat did not work out.

[Vasilenko Vladimir]

Quote: Alexander Salenko

Remind how the sanctions hit then and how they didn’t hit now

Well, how did they hit then?!!!!

[jdiver]

well, then they would have taken Ukraine, and then they would have taken away yachts, real estate and grandmas. And so another 8 years lived like people. Some.

[Sergej1972]

In 2014-2015, Putin listened to the opinion of the late Primakov, who considered the conflict in Donbas to be internal Ukrainian.

[Ivan Ivanov]

Strange, if so, Primakov's logic. At that time, the Crimean conflict could also be considered intra-Ukrainian. Why did they take it?
In general, Primakov is a contradictory figure. On the one hand, together with Maslyukov, they pulled the Russian Federation from the brink of the abyss in 1999, on the other hand, he advocated (according to Vyacheslav Matuzov) for the dismantling of the USSR, was a member of the so-called group. "my social democrats" under Brezhnev.

[Sergej1972]

Primakov supported the annexation of Crimea. And with regard to the Donbass, he had a different position.

[Aleksandr21]

Quote: Ka-52

Russia benefited from a smoldering conflict

In general, it was not profitable, so our leaders made concessions in the Minsk agreements ... with the hope of peacefully resolving everything and lifting sanctions from Russia. because economic / technological / political sanctions have seriously affected the development of the country as a whole, no matter how local "experts" convince us of the opposite.

+ to have a hostile state at hand, the purpose of which is war with us, and at all levels ... clearly does not have a benefit. because we incur additional costs and this does not bring profit.

As for the slowdown in Ukraine's integration into the EU... for us, this is not a very fundamental issue:

Putin said that Russia has never been against Ukraine's accession to the EU. SPIEF-2022.

[Ka-52]

what sanctions would be lifted from us? What are you speaking about? In the times of Gorbachev-Yeltsin, most kneeling before the West, the Jackson-Vanik amendment, imposed in shaggy 1974, was not removed from us. And you write about fresh sanctions here

[Aleksandr21]

Quote: Ka-52

what sanctions would be lifted from us? What are you speaking about?

Sanctions after the Crimea and because of the situation with the Donbass.... the Minsk agreements are not so much a story about resolving the conflict, but about the desire of the Russian elites and business to agree with the West on this issue, and that is why we endured for 8 years, although the understanding that no one will fulfill the Minsk agreements ... they were right away.

What is the outcome? They dragged it on so much when Ukraine was already pumped up with weapons from and to, and even a huge number of people were let through the ATO and according to NATO programs ... now it comes to deal with this, because. there was no point in dragging on any longer, 8 years of meaningless negotiations, and the lack of a guarantee to the Russian elites - led us to the current situation.

[Ka-52]

no need to transfer everything to the elites. Sanctions hit not only and not so much on the elites, but on the country's economy. The crisis of 2014 was not only provoked by global trends, but also by the reaction to the events in Crimea. Therefore, I admit that in the spring the number 1 goal was Crimea. Donbass was either a distraction or a reserve factor (rather the first). The Minsk agreements were unconditionally THE ONLY available option at the time. Because the government was clearly in no hurry to accept the Donbass into Russia due to the growth of economic and isolation risks, and did not want to give it to Ukraine to be torn to pieces due to the loss of its image.

[Aleksandr21]

The crisis began before the annexation of Crimea... we all remember what happened on the Maidan in Kyiv in 2014 and who came to power in the country (nationalists - and some were so radical that they were no different from fascism + all this under the roof of the United States, because this is their protégé).

In Crimea, there was a threat to national security - the Russian Federation, namely the loss of the Black Sea Fleet base and the consequences of such changes (weakening of Russia's influence in the region, the threat to get about the NATO base in Sevastopol, etc.) in fact, these are retaliatory measures against US steps and an attempt to at least how to play the situation to your advantage.

But in the Donbass, yes, in 2014 - the story with the support of the Kremlin did not continue, but the visit of the President of Switzerland, Mr. Didier Burkhalter, was clearly successful .... after which, by the way, a lot began to roll back, starting with filing in the media ending with calls not to hold a referendum on joining Russia.

those. political / economic bargaining and behind-the-scenes agreements began (most likely with the European elites and the forces that this "comrade" represented).

At the same time, hostilities continued, and the moment came when the Armed Forces of Ukraine were on the verge of defeat (remember the Debaltsevo pocket), and who came to the aid of the Ukrainian Nazis? That's right, European elites, Merkel and Hollande flew in and helped freeze the conflict....what was Russia's interest? When we could then decide everything by military means + annex most of Ukraine, and the population would support us .... (+ having a trump card, namely the President of Ukraine Yanukovych, i.e. the legitimacy of our actions, etc.) eventually got then, it is not known what (most likely promises and some kind of guarantees in the future), and then they threw us .... at least in 2022, it looks more plausible.

[Ka-52]

I agree with everything except the last paragraph. There was no need for war, and even more so for the seizure of the territory of Ukraine in 2014. It doesn’t exist much even now - the annexation of part of the Zaporozhye and Kherson regions is more a forced decision than a justified one. Well, because since they are already under us, it’s too late to retreat, the people will not forgive the second Buchi.

[Alexander Salenko]

Yes. such an attempt may seem naive, but that is exactly what they tried to do, agree and only then wave their fists. From a purely human point of view, this seems personal to me.

[Andobor]

Quote: Ratibor_A

It is very strange that the leadership of our country did not understand this ... Although it was understood by the last homeless person or janitor in our country ....

The leadership understood everything perfectly, but Russia also needed time for economic and strategic preparation, and it’s not in Ukraine that every homeless person understands this.
The economic preparation worked, but the strategic preparation has not yet ended, it is now looming the same, and time is already dragging on in battles ..

[GAF]

Quote: Andobor

The leadership understood everything perfectly, but Russia also needed time for economic and strategic preparation,

Quite right, and we got 8 years, although 2-3 more years would not hurt. "Hurry-ups with drafts unsheathed" do not assess the state of the Russian Armed Forces, food self-sufficiency, etc. in 2014. If then the "partners" (they called them that without quotes) had the same sanctions and the bulk of the entire NATO with the supply of so many weapons, it would hardly have worked such a mill to grind their aid to the ukrams as it is happening now. In 2015, Syria was able to create an effective limited group. Gained experience. Many servicemen of all ranks underwent training there, tested new models of weapons - as noted, many hundreds of comments were received on their use for further refinement ...

[orionvitt]

Quote: Ratibor_A

It is very strange that the leadership of our country did not understand this ...

Everyone understood everything. They also won time.

[Neo-9947]

Quote: Ratibor_A

So who's leading us then?

This is what leads to bad thoughts that the Russian Vanka, as always, is being held for a fool.
We have a year to read, presidential elections. Anyone want to submit their candidacy? Is someone ready for a debate with the current president?
Or, as always, no public debates, a couple of general phrases from the incumbent president, a couple of obviously not passable rivals in the elections, and the next presidential term is ready.
And in the meantime, a lot of questions have accumulated for the current government.

[Amper]

We can be led by any organized criminal group, because non-resistance to evil is our basic law! What they use. There is nothing to blame on the mirror, since the mug is crooked! Freedom and justice are always given in blood.

[Zenn]

Now V.V. Putin, as a decent politician, must answer, but did the Minsk agreements benefit Russia?
Or once again we will be told about how insidious partners deceived us. As far as I remember Putin V.V. in 2015 or 2016 he stated that he was personally the author of the Minsk agreements.

[megadeth]

Someone said: - "just saying, cheated." And we: "NEXT TIME".

[neworange88]

Already answered. The Russian authorities did not fully understand the mood of the residents of Donbass in 2014.

.“We ... did not fully feel the mood of the people. It was impossible to understand what was happening there. Now, perhaps, it has become obvious that this reunification [of Donbass and Russia] should have happened earlier. Maybe then there would not have been so many casualties among civilians, so many dead children,” Putin said. The meeting is broadcast on the Russia 24 TV channel.

.According to him, in 2014 the authorities of the Russian Federation proceeded from the fact that within the framework of the Minsk agreements to establish a peaceful existence of Luhansk and Donetsk with Ukraine. “We were sincerely moving towards this,” Putin said.

https://m.ura.news/news/1052606013

[Ka-52]

Already answered. The Russian authorities did not fully understand the mood of the residents of Donbass in 2014.

and what about the mood? You can't smear moods on bread. If a referendum had been held in Donbass in 2014 not only to recognize independence, but also to join the Russian Federation, then it would have been clear. And so read the Constitution - the procedure for admitting new subjects is written there.

[Ivan Ivanov]

I remember in the year 15-16 Putin gave an interview on the topic of Donbass, where he said that in Crimea the support was absolute, hence the accession, and in the Donbass the support was supposedly insufficient, "there was no one to rely on." Now it turns out that "it was on whom." In this regard, it is interesting whether VVP himself is the author of the idea of ​​"lack of sufficient support" or suggested who and whether this "someone" was punished, was he deprived of his position / title / awards? I know one of the adherents of the idea for sure - this is Zatulin, he spoke in the same period in the same vein, and even now he became famous for the scandalous "these are our regions, but not quite ours."

[neworange88]

The name Medvedchuk comes to mind, whom everyone in the Donbass considers an enemy and agent of Ukraine. Financial interests prevailed over the will of the people. It turns out like this.

[Gardamir]

Speaking of Crimea and Donbass, 2014. Kharkiv was then more pro-Russian than Crimea, but the goals then, as now, were different in the Kremlin.

[Ivan Ivanov]

That's for sure, I remember the spring expulsion of Bandera and 100 thousand demonstrations on May 9 in Kharkov, now there is the fiercest Banderstat, one of its nodes.

[Ghost1]

In fact, the South-East of Ukraine was then a pro-Russian ball, there, in fact, there could be a situation like with the Crimea or with a minimum of losses, besides, there was no Ukrainian army at that time and many were simply not ready to fight. Only with the help of the Natsiks was it possible to tune the APU. But in the end, we see that some Western bigwig came to Moscow and, apparently, threatened with stronger sanctions, or that the oligarchs would be squeezed, that even Mariupol, which had only to enter, had to be left.

[GUSAR]

The South-East was not then pro-Russian, it was no longer. No need to lie or be naive

[Sergej1972]

And this affected, and the influence of Primakov, respected by Putin.

[Amper]

As always lies. Half of Ukraine was waiting for the arrival of Russia, but there was no need for a gangway, the organized criminal group has its own interests.

[Ivan Ivanov]

I am also interested in how competently and densely the time of Minsk was used for preparation with us. Judging by our successes, it was used insufficiently competently and densely.

[neworange88]

No one was preparing for war in our country. Putin himself said that he was surprised that no one was fulfilling the Minsk agreements that were agreed upon.

“Well, everyone is trying to push us towards the implementation of the Minsk agreements. And they often blame us for not doing it. But when we ask our partners, including those in the Normandy format, what specifically does not fulfill Russia under the Minsk agreements? And what, in your opinion, according to the Minsk agreements, Russia should have done? There is no answer,” the Russian leader said.
The President also answered the question of whether there is any point in holding a meeting of the Normandy Four, which both European partners and Ukraine insist on.
“Well, I have not heard the latest persistent proposals on this matter, although we are discussing this. I believe that we have no other mechanisms. And these mechanisms, no matter how hard it is today, no matter how difficult it is to solve this problem, but this mechanism must be used, ”Putin said.

https://iz.ru/1249392/2021-11-13/putin-prokommentiroval-obvineniia-rossii-v-neispolnenii-minskikh-soglashenii

Meanwhile, having sensed our weakness, they were already thinking not only about the Donbass and Crimea, while we were playing in Minsk.

. After that, Ukraine will regain not only Crimea and Donbass, but also other territories that now belong to the Russian Federation, having the opportunity to build a "great Kievan Rus."

This was stated by the former commander of the reconnaissance company of the Azov regiment, Sergei "Botsman" Korotkikh, on the air of the Ukrainian Channel 5.

"I predict that the Putin regime will fall. He is an old man, sooner or later must die. Medvedev is weak. As the experience of his rule has shown, he will not be able to rule like Putin. I am sure that this will cause the collapse of the state, and open a window of opportunity, including for the creation of a great Kievan Rus. I hope, in addition to the Crimea and Donbass, to take Belgorod, Rostov, Taman, Kuban," he said.

https://antifashist.com/item/krome-kryma-i-donbassa-zaberem-belgorod-rostov-taman-kubanveteran-ato-zhdet-raspada-rf-i-grezit-sozdaniem-velikoj-kievskoj-rusi.html

[Ulan.1812]

With the economy prepared in the main.
But with the defense, the friends of the main one set him up. The army was not ready for such a war.

[tihonmarine]

Quote: Dzenn

Now V.V. Putin, as a decent politician, must answer, but did the Minsk agreements benefit Russia?

The question was raised incorrectly, it is necessary to put the question in the foreground - "Was Russia and its armed forces ready to start a war with Ukraine."
And could Russia provide the army with everything necessary for hostilities for ten months (as it is now).

[jdiver]

maybe he will answer in 8 years. and then after 8 years he will speak and say something about the surrender of Kherson. Not everything is easy at once.

[Uprun]

She repented that she had deceived ..... Macrosh and Berk today are also "drown" for the world ....., the goals and objectives are the same - to deceive.

[laws70]

Repented for cheating...

Not a word about 100 thousand dead Vushnikov alone .. Lying, vile .. ... (woman).

[Uprun]

They don't give a damn about 100 dead UAF soldiers, they are not worth even one tear from a child from Donbass, and there is already the Alley of Angels, 100 times more should die for their children.

[Battle Toads]

Quote: Dzenn

Now V.V. Putin, as a decent politician, must answer, but did the Minsk agreements benefit Russia?
Or once again we will be told about how insidious partners deceived us. As far as I remember Putin V.V. in 2015 or 2016 he stated that he was personally the author of the Minsk agreements.

He doesn't owe anything. The MCs were an attempt to calm the crazy Ukraine peacefully.
In this crazy world there should be at least one sane leader and I am glad that this is our President.

[Vasilenko Vladimir]

the problem is that we lost 8 years, and the West and Sumeria gained these 8 years,
By the way, the GDP recognized this. Those who were 14-12 years old in the 13th now will not hate Russia with all their hearts, since these 8 years ... they poured into their ears

[GUSAR]

Those who were 2014-20 years old in 25, they hated us there no less

[Vasilenko Vladimir]

young people were added to them, is this a plus or a minus?

[I dare to_notice_]

At this point "Stormy and prolonged applause"!

[Vasilenko Vladimir]

Quote: BundesBABUSHKA

The Minsk agreements benefited Ukraine as they allowed it to gain time

everyone understood this except our side

[Ivan Ivanov]

Yes, and ours understood, of those who do not make a decision, unfortunately.

[rusich]

It was so clear that they had been deceived. And now they are trying to deceive the paddling pool with liver sausage with a song about peace negotiations so that the outskirts are armed and gathered strength. Now it will not work for Europeans

[fuel oil]

So far, it’s working out very well. Instead of sane military operations, there is a blind defense in the “gut” from Taganrog to Dzhankoy, with the idea of ​​preserving at least this land corridor. I was wrong ... Soldiers of strength and patience with Lady Luck and return home with victory.

[nordscout]

Another confirmation of the hypocrisy and lies of all politics, towards Russia, from Germany during the years of Merkel's rule ... Another confirmation, to Russia, that you can talk with the West "on an equal footing", holding them tightly, for a "causal place", that Russia, somehow, with "this", has not been able to do it since 91 ... As a rule, "complicity" and the syndrome of "Leopold's cat" (so characteristic of our Ministry of "expressions of concern") -, in international politics doesn't end well...

[Dmitriy444]

What `s next? Minsk, Shtanmeier's formulas, were even endorsed by the UN. Now there is no desire to apply to the UN for sanctions against Germany and France for lying? Well, at least see the reaction?

[Battle Toads]

Quote: rotkiv04

I immediately remembered Putin's words about how the West cheated Gorbachev - "they deceived the fool into four fists." So the hunchback was only waved once, but this strategist is constantly thrown, now with Minsk, then with gas, then with 300 billion, is he such an eccentric in life

Are you on the side of cheaters and deceivers? Yes, you are a megamind, my friend!

[alexey_444]

Everyone knew everything, well, we were not ready either. And most importantly, as some figures suggest to rush to Kiev in 14, and who would keep this hohland, no one criticizes this green for the deterioration of life, but we would have arranged a Maidan an order of magnitude tougher than in 14. Hohland should either be fenced off or conquered. But in order to win it is necessary to offer the Hochland elite a better life than the West offers, and this is impossible. It is their heroes who kill children and corrupt officials, they will not allow us to do this.

[Ivan Ivanov]

At 14, it was necessary to divide Ukraine in half, along the Dnieper, having a legitimate Yanukovych in the deck, declare the Kuev separatists, rely on the pro-Russian majority of the southeast, support it with its army, especially since the permission of the Duma and the Federation Council was in hand, why was it withdrawn?

[alexey_444]

Emotionally, yes, along the Dnieper, but in practice I say the same thing to everyone many times, it’s not the people who rule, but the elite, there was a time even the Donbass elite wanted to return to Hohland after 14. How can the measure of Odessa be pulled over to your side if he has kickbacks abroad, the firtasha was kept for a reason in Austria and Kolomoisky was rushing for Ukraine, but it turned out to be more important to lose money, he left for America. I am amazed at how Putin made our elites nationally oriented, many also have accounts abroad.

[Ivan Ivanov]

Not only emotionally, Yanukovych is the legitimate president, we had his request for military assistance in our hands, and even if in these circumstances the southeast was merged from both sides under the iron pressure of the west, then it was very strange to count on a successful outcome of Minsk. These 8 years should have been used as Stalin, and we, excuse me, "stuck on the light." Yes, something was done, but obviously "on the floor of the bumps", the threat was tragically underestimated.

[Woodman]

Quote: IvanIvanov

These 8 years had to be used as Stalin,

In the 41st, however, the Germans stood around Moscow, and not the Russians near Berlin. And in order for us to now be able to admire Stalin, it took a few more very long, intense and bloody years.

[alexandre II]

What about Putin? Where are his daughters? Maybe volunteers in hospitals? Haven't heard? And you are talking about accounts abroad .....

[alexey_444]

Do not know what is better than the royal family in hospitals and then the revolution, or as it is now ... time will put everything in its place.

[I dare to_notice_]

Too shy to ask...
Well, what do we do with this "revelation" now? ..
Do not declare war on Germany ?!

[al3x]

Well, the grandmother poured German beer into our ears, professionally.

[seamen2]

*Yes, Peter. this is the great duplicitous European politician.*
p/s/ and their cards are marked..

[Battle Toads]

Quote: Vasilenko Vladimir

the problem is that we lost 8 years and the West and Sumeria gained these 8 years
By the way, GDP admitted this, those who were 14-12 years old at 13 now do not hate Russia with all their hearts, since these 8 years they ... poured into their ears

Now it's their problem 100%

[Vasilenko Vladimir]

unfortunately ours, because now they are shooting at our soldiers

[Kim_Where_When]

It is clear why the West welcomed the Minsk agreements. But why did Putin do it? I would like to hear from Vladimir Vladimirovich in no uncertain terms.

[Gardamir]

I wanted to go down in history as a peacemaker. With what delight he talked about the painted knees.

[15210]

What can be heard from our Peresident? He changes shoes as he breathes.

[Andobor]

Quote from: Kim_Gde_Kogda

I would like to hear from Vladimir Vladimirovich in no uncertain terms.

He is not recognized, but on the whole it’s clear that it’s not about Ukraine, but about the confrontation with the West, and Russia was not ready, economically and strategically, the economy had already worked, but it seems that a couple of years weren’t enough for strategists, and now pull.

[ilpine]

The kind German old woman turned out to be a witch. And her French friend is an evil troll.

[rotmistr60]

The Minsk agreements allowed Ukraine to gain valuable time to become stronger

The old Komsomol member decided to write a confession. Now she explained the situation why she and Hollande so diligently turned a blind eye to Ukrainian violations of the treaty, constantly unreasonably accused Russia. Prepared Ukraine for war with it. European political "elite" in all its glory.

[jdiver]

they simply drown Putin's rating by calling everything by its proper name, counting on the growth of people's discontent. And not without reason, in general.

[Battle Toads]

Quote: Vasilenko Vladimir

unfortunately ours, because now they are shooting at our soldiers

We did not choose this path, Ukraine itself embarked on the path of losing itself as a state and Russia will not turn back

[Shamil88]

The whole reason is Didier Burkhalter, after his arrival everything changed, the Kyiv junta became already respected partners, the referendum was not recognized in the LPR and DPR, the militia put a spoke in the wheel, they didn’t even let Mariupol take empty, then his company could be taken calmly, but the Kremlin The Akhmetovs, of course, are closer than the people of Donbass, who are now feeding the Nazis, and all those who were against the Minsk agreements were killed by the fabulous elusive Ukrainian DRGs in the rear. When the people understand who the real enemy is, then there will be a turning point

[Vladimir M]

Quote: Sergej1972

In 2014-2015, Putin listened to the opinion of the late Primakov, who considered the conflict in Donbas to be internal Ukrainian.

No, Putin listened to the opinion of Surkov, Abramovich, Medvedchuk, Akhmetov, Poroshenko. It is unlikely that these people pursued the interests of Russia or Ukraine. And after that, all significant commanders in the Donbass were purged, and for sure, not only by the hands of the Ukrainian RDG.

[Ivan Ivanov]

Bednov (Batman) yes - internal disassembly, otherwise it's more of a conspiracy theory.

[Oorfene Juice and his wooden soldiers]

As soon as the Americans lose world hegemony, they will return the lands lost after the world war, such are their thoughts.

[Alexander Salenko]

I thought she was a little smarter. This is essentially a recognition of the armed conflict here and now.

[Yusik]

and what kind of agreements with the "partners" after that do we count on ?! Deceived in 1941, deceived in 2014.. How long can you step on the same rake?! The next arrangement will be exactly the same quality

[Woodman]

Quote: Yusik

and what kind of agreements with the "partners" after that do we count on ?!

Do we count?

[al3x]

You and I may not be counting, they are counting at the top. They expect to continue to make profits, turning a blind eye to all the kicks and throws that fly to Russia without stopping. Like mice chewing on a cactus, honestly.

[jdiver]

there is still a lot of Russian lands, apparently, to pay for a new contract.

[Arisaka]

Of course, our people understood everything and played the same game. I think because our authorities did not need the Donbass in any way or did not need it so much to be drawn into the war. Therefore, NATO/Russia traded and played for time. And talk about options for Donbass and Ukraine has been going on for 8 years. Only NATO, apparently, took advantage of the time more advantageously.
When it became obvious that war could not be avoided, they played partly ahead of the curve with the NWO. Well, since it’s time to fight, then they started the agenda about the ancestral territories - there’s nothing to lose.

[Hiller]

The conclusion is simple - sitting "at the negotiating table" with such an audience should understand that these are professional cheats! And that means there is no decency and cannot be. Only the trunk to the arrogant muzzle point-blank.

[iouris]

Well, it was clear from the very beginning. The Minsk agreements did not benefit the Russian Federation: they were preparing for a liberation campaign ... But as it turned out, there are only nationalists, extremists, fascists, militants and mercenaries ...
And then Merkel, a Komsomol member, is good. All my life I was preparing to deceive: I learned Russian. And yet she cheated. And whom!

[opuonmed]

scammed the West of the elite of the Russian Federation, as it was more than once or twice!

[jdiver]

Well, it's so hard not to cheat when God hands over a trump card to you and you exchange them over and over again for sixes under the promises of a sharper to compensate for this with something. Then. Thursday after rain.

[alexandre II]

In general, this grandmother does not give an account of her words, and maybe her actions / although who is normal there /, is it just a provocation for a nuclear strike, or did she decide not to die alone ??

[Guran33 Sergey]

Here the German voiced the strategic blunder of the GDP in 15, which broke and greatly leveled the "Crimean dream" among understanding people

[igorra]

It's bad that our leadership comes only after people's suffering. Well, or when they put their hand in their pocket. And so, they also smoked history textbooks at school.

[Ros 56]

You old fool, there's nothing more to say.