Spain delivered the first MIM-23 HAWK anti-aircraft systems to Ukraine

The first anti-aircraft systems MIM-23 HAWK (Homing All the Way Killer) arrived in Ukraine, the delivery of the complexes was organized by Spain. This was announced by the Minister of Defense of Ukraine Oleksiy Reznikov.

Spain supplied Ukraine with the MIM-23 HAWK air defense system, along with the complexes, the Spanish Minister of Defense Margarita Robles arrived in Odessa, who discussed with Reznikov further arms supplies and the organization of training for the Ukrainian military in Spain. It is not known how many complexes arrived in Ukraine, but in total Madrid promised to supply six MIM-23 HAWK air defense systems. Two weeks ago, the speaker of the Air Force of the Armed Forces of Ukraine, Yuriy Ignat, said that the first Spanish air defense systems allegedly had already arrived and were adopted by the Armed Forces of Ukraine, but this information turned out to be premature, the air defense systems appeared only on December 2.

The fact that Spain will supply Ukraine with additional MIM-23 HAWK anti-aircraft systems, the head of the Spanish military department, Margarita Robles, announced on November 10. According to her, the request for delivery came from NATO. Thus, in total, Spain will supply Ukraine with six MIM-23 Hawk air defense systems, adopted by the American army in 1960. The complex was repeatedly modernized and was in service with the US Army until 1994, and the Marine Corps until 2002. This air defense system was replaced by Patriot, which the United States is not going to supply to Ukraine.

Ukraine will also receive a battery of Spada / Skyguard Aspide anti-aircraft systems from Spain in addition to the MIM-23 HAWK air defense system. This complex was in service with the Spanish army from 1985 to 2020, after which it was withdrawn from service due to its obsolescence. In addition, the warranty period for the storage of ammunition has expired. In this regard, the Aspide air defense system was removed from service and transferred to storage. Instead, Spain purchased Norwegian NASAMS air defense systems.

Comments

[Oleg Ogorod]

Time is not playing in favor of Russia. In 2014, the Donbas rebels could reach Kyiv with the help of little green men. In February 2022, Russian tanks were on the outskirts of Kyiv.
Ukraine has a fairly large mobilization resource compared to other European countries. When pumping up its army, even with not the most modern weapons, this is a rather formidable force. For a small grouping of the Russian army in Ukraine.

[Barberry25]

Here the question is not about pumping, but about the forces that we deploy at the front, in those sectors where the number of troops was close to the regular ones "there was no talk of any breakthroughs, but where one brigade was several tens of kilometers away, and this it means, at best, 800 infantrymen, then the front line was torn there as a result, so that with a full-time battalion for 5 km of the front with standard weapons, there will be no breakthroughs.

[invisible_man]

It’s good there if the regiment was several tens of kilometers away.

[Viktor Sergeev]

Time plays on Russia. The economy of Ukraine is dying, or rather died, the EU is also out. There is a principle of WW1.

[Barberry25]

what does the Ukrainian economy have to do with it? The West is now supplying 404 ... The hryvnia is no longer accepted in banks

[Viktor Sergeev]

While the economy of Ukraine, that there are at least 20 million people left who want to eat, they need work, other needs must be met. You can't smear shells on bread. The West provides weapons, but fatigue even of such a cattle that is now in Ukraine will accumulate. Gas from Ukraine's storage facilities will be sucked out this winter;

[Barberry25]

Well, according to my data, the 23rd year is considered the year of hostilities, and not "quickly make peace"

[bayard]

Quote: Oleg Ogorod

Time is not playing in favor of Russia.

Everything is relative in this world. Especially if you look at the comparison. Let's say with Europe, which confidently rolled into Sunset - deindustrialization and a total economic recession.
Against this background, the Russian Federation looks quite well done, despite sanctions, asset confiscations and the war in Ukraine.

Quote: Oleg Ogorod

In 2014, the Donbas rebels could reach Kyiv with the help of little green men.

Unfortunately, only with the help of these little men who came in and out like a gust of the North Wind. But you can consider an alternative to those events. And then - in 2014, the prospects for a war in Ukraine with NATO looked quite sour. The rearmament of the Army had just begun and such a level of intensity (if there was an escalation) of the RF Armed Forces might not have been able to withstand it. And there was about the desire for such an escalation of information.
After all, it must be remembered that then, according to obligations, the RF Armed Forces did not have heavy weapons in the European part of the country at all (!) - everything was withdrawn beyond the Urals. Can you imagine trains with equipment along the Trans-Siberian Railway at that time? But such transfers have been practiced in regular exercises since that same 2014. There were no new types of weapons in the Army then, new aircraft were just beginning to enter the troops, missile brigades were only rearming with Iskanders and were not even in the middle of this path, no new CRs have been accumulated, which we still won’t run out of today.

Quote: Oleg Ogorod

In February 2022, Russian tanks were on the outskirts of Kyiv.

And tanks, and paratroopers, and units of the LDNR were there ... But just in what quantity?
From the strength of 30 people of the combined hodgepodge.
Against a group of 100 people. , with rapid mobilization (only Kyiv gave up to 000 volunteers in the defense in the first weeks).
- So why was that attack made from all (from EIGHT) sides? If the strength was not enough?
- To disrupt the offensive in the Donbass, where the Armed Forces of Ukraine could quite quickly cut and surround groupings of corps, which were outnumbered by about 5 times and had no depth of defense. And therefore, when our troops were standing near Kyiv, all reserves began to be drawn there, and the attack on the LDNR was thwarted. In addition, thanks to the diversion of all forces, means and reserves near Kyiv, the Kherson region was successfully liberated. , south of Zaporozhye, the entire Azov coast, a large Mariupol group was surrounded and successfully destroyed.
If you look soberly at the available forces and the results achieved, then this tactic has justified itself. At the first stage .
But the fact that the second and third echelons were not prepared, until September they were afraid to announce mobilization (and on what basis, if the war was not declared, and the SVO - the basis is insufficient - they thought so ... and thought it was wrong), then what they counted on meeting with flowers "as in 2014" ... not even a miscalculation.

Quote: Oleg Ogorod

Ukraine has a fairly large mobilization resource,

Not so much anymore. At the time of the beginning of the NWO, no more than 30 million people lived in Ukraine (actually, I think no more than 25 million). At the moment, about a million have been mobilized ... but they left during the same time for various reasons ... about half of those then in service and called up during all this time. At the beginning of autumn, there were about 700-750 thousand in the ranks. Now I think no more than 600 thousand, along with recruits.
And it's getting harder and harder to recruit new ones. Among the killed and captured, there are more and more men aged 50-55 years. Yes, and those with military training in the reserve are no longer left. So their mobilization potential is close to exhaustion.
And in Russia, meanwhile, only one wave of mobilization of 300 thousand + from 65 to 100 thousand volunteers was carried out during the same time.
It turns out that Russia has not even swayed yet, but is scraping out the last mobile resources. No wonder more and more foreigners are fixed on the fronts. This is both alarming and a signal that Ukraine itself is running out of steam. And this is even without their society realizing the horrifying fact about the real number of their losses.

Quote: Oleg Ogorod

that's a pretty formidable force. For a small grouping of the Russian army in Ukraine.

The force is really formidable, because these are the same Russian men - stubborn, hardy, unpretentious, resourceful ... only with a minus sign. That is why it was so difficult in September-October - they prepared mobilized forces, received equipment from NATO, and ours fought without rotations in a numerical ratio of one to four or even one to five.
If it weren’t for such massive deliveries from NATO, then numerical superiority would hardly have played a role, but with proper technical equipment and when 30 to 50 thousand foreign mercenaries and just military arrived at the theater, the effect that we remember was obtained.
But already in December, fresh forces arrive at the theater of operations and for the first time in 10 months the NWO grouping will equal the opposing strength of the Armed Forces of Ukraine. And this will qualitatively change the situation. It is unlikely that there will be grandiose offensives, because the grouping must be increased to at least 800 thousand, and preferably up to a million + an active reserve for future rotations. and this takes time. So it's all a long game.

And these air defense systems will not bring much benefit to Ukraine. These are very old complexes, peers and analogues of our S-125. They are not a problem for our electronic warfare systems, are ineffective against missile defense or ballistic (and even more so quasi-ballistic) targets, and have a short range. They are more useful for the APU as complacency.

[2 Level Advisor]

Quote: bayard

The rearmament of the Army had just begun and such a level of intensity (if there was an escalation) of the RF Armed Forces could not withstand

do not tell me which of the MASSOV used in the NWO was not in 2014 in the RF Armed Forces, but is it now? and what of what is now has made the RF Armed Forces an order of magnitude stronger than in 2014?

[bayard]

Quote: Level 2 Advisor

do not tell me which of the MASSOV used in the NWO was not in 2014 in the RF Armed Forces, but is it now?

There was no such aircraft, and what was, did not meet modern requirements, had worn-out materiel, and did not undergo modernization. the arrival of new samples was just beginning, there were no Su-35s at all, there were very few Su-30SMs. Almost all of the Tu-22M3s were sky-ready and later they were all assembled in Kazan for fault detection, repair and possible modernization. The modernization of the Tu-95 and Tu-160 was just beginning or just planned.
There were very few new and modernized tanks, the T-72V3 \ V3M and T-80BVT were not even in sight at that time. "Malki", Msta-S "and other artillery systems did not even begin modernization. The vehicle fleet was not updated. Contract soldiers made up only a small part of the peacetime army, large-scale exercises in the transfer of troops, raising alarms, extended forced marches were not carried out. Su attack aircraft -25 had not yet been modernized, had not undergone a major overhaul... The missile brigades were then still re-equipping from "Point-U" to "Iskander", there was not enough KR, carriers of "Caliber" ... there were only a few. Yes, there were not many things.
No, it would not hurt to conduct a quick operation to suppress the fascist rebellion ... BUT ... if there was an escalation and NATO intervened, then ... what was it to meet with?
New SSBNs then were only being tested (Borey-A). "Ash-M" then still ... just expected. Most (yes, ALL) ships needed repairs, including submarines.
At that time, we didn’t even have a trace of the Avangard on the UR-100UTTKh, or the Sarmat, or the Dagger, or the Zircon. The army was just beginning to restore its combat capability.
And one more thing (and this is very important) - the early warning circuit has not yet been completely closed. Huge sectors and entire directions were not visible at all then. And with the orbital grouping there was quite a problem. We could easily miss (not notice at all) the first disarming strike from one or more of these obscure directions. And they would have known about such a strike only when nuclear mushrooms would have grown over our cities, industrial centers, missile bases, airfields ...
These are not assumptions, but a clear statement of the state of affairs then.
Today the whole world is surprised that Russia still does not run out of missiles ... And where would they come from then? You look at how often they launch "Caliber" (in service since 2012), and then for them and carriers it was ... a few. And then in the Caspian. Yes, and the missiles themselves for several volleys.
So the accusations of the unpreparedness of the SVO in terms of the size of the group are quite fair, and there were also chances to quickly crush the rebellion in Ukraine, but ... if the enemy had then used this as an excuse, what would we have answered?
And the enemy had such aspirations.
For the sake of provocation, they then even brought two nuclear warheads to Ukraine in order to undermine them in the combat formations of the Armed Forces of Ukraine storming Donetsk, in order to pass it off as a Russian strike, and immediately deliver a disarming strike ... which we would not have repelled then.
And now the alignment is completely different. Yes, and the economy was prepared during this time ... just look HOW - they began not only to feed themselves (and then they imported), but also came out on top in grain exports, we export poultry, pork, mutton (!), set up gardens , vegetable plantations ... last year they flooded Poland with their cucumbers, which almost ruined their farmers ... And the financial system survived. And the Arabs (!!!) supported us. And relations with Iran have improved to the extent that they have. And they managed to switch to China in trade.
But all this then - in 2014 ... was not.
Remember how then (at the end of 2014 - beginning of 2015) the ruble collapsed?
And in February / March of this year, on the contrary, it took off.
No, the time was not wasted.
And a lot has been done.
By the way, Russia is starting to produce its own lithographic equipment for the production of microchips ... according to a technical process even higher than in Holland. And we had our own hard ultraviolet lasers, and our own production of highly precise lenses, and highly pure materials, and our fundamental science in this area (lasers, particle accelerators, highly pure materials, lenses, technical process) turned out to be the most advanced. And now buildings of future productions are being built with the launch of these in 2024. At the same time, technology demonstrators (pilot plants) have already demonstrated the possibility of producing multilayer heterostructures according to the technical process up to a few nanometers and even less than one unit. Even the Dutch (and only they produce such equipment) could not achieve this.
What does it mean ?
This means that they were also engaged in this, financed the work, trained specialists, conducted R&D and ... did not chat.
But taking into account that the Russian Federation has the lion's share of the world production of substrates for microchips, silicon and highly pure neutral gases ... by the middle to the end of this decade, we will have complete autarky at the highest technical level in the production of radio component base. And the domestic market is actively preparing for this.
But in order to live up to this, you must not manage to lose this war.

[Oleg Ogorod]

At that time, we didn’t even have a trace of the Avangard on the UR-100UTTKh, or the Sarmat, or the Dagger, or the Zircon.
Even now we have no avant-garde, no Sarmatian, no zircon either. In addition to prototypes.
Only then there was no Ukrainian army at all. Pupils of the Bandera ideology had not yet come to the army of Ukraine. And now it's different. 30 years is the age of fighting, and the age of anti-Soviet and anti-Russian in Ukraine.
Sarmatians cannot fight with Ukraine, as well as avant-gardes. And daggers ... so there are fewer and fewer instants 31, too old, and new ones are generally not produced or developed to replace them.
Guns in these years were almost not produced, it was believed that they would not be needed in a future war. And now suddenly they were surprised how much they were needed. But what can industry do? Only old Soviet samples of the middle of the last century. Let's not say anything about modern fire control systems. Technological progress has long forgotten about art. How the government forgot about it.
We created expensive military complexes, mainly front and exhibition, but it turned out to be the most effective cheap Iranian kherani.
But the budget was spent on many trillions for the defense industry. Doctors of Science from the 46th Central Research Institute of the Ministry of Defense received the rank of general and generous payments for creating a direction for the development of military equipment in Russia.
There was such a fairy tale, The Naked King, and so it most fully reflects the situation in Russia with military equipment.

[bayard]

Quote: Oleg Ogorod

Even now we have no avant-garde, no Sarmatian, no zircon either. In addition to prototypes.

"Vanguards" on the UR-100UTTH are already at least a couple of regiments, and you don't need a lot of them - this is a tool for the most high-priority and highly protected targets. And for all other purposes, conventional nuclear warheads with a missile defense system are enough. For the US has not created an effective missile defense system.
Sarmat is being tested and mines are already being prepared for new missiles. And this rocket is already there.
"Daggers" have been in service for several years, they were even used in the NWO. But their main purpose is to replace the missing IRBMs with nuclear warheads. For the European and Pacific theater of operations, it’s better not to come up with. There are already several dozen MiG-31Ks on combat duty, and these are only carriers, but such an aircraft can make many sorties.
"Zircon" - the missile has been put into service, mass production is underway, there are carriers for it and new ones are being built. This is a real weapon and the main purpose of such a missile is the delivery of nuclear warheads to their intended destination (both for sea mobile and ground stationary targets).
These are not cartoons and not ceremonial models, these are real types of weapons. Very effective and practically irresistible by today's means.

Quote: Oleg Ogorod

Only then there was no Ukrainian army at all.

Exactly . Moreover, that army was categorically not going to fight with Russia. Therefore, I repeat - it was then quite easy to restore constitutional order in Ukraine, and the local security forces themselves would have done most, if not the vast majority of the work. I know it for sure. But there was also a threat that the Anglo-Saxons would carry out some kind of sabotage or provocation, use this as an excuse and ... and then we were definitely not ready for such a level of conflict. We simply did not have military units with heavy weapons in the European part - everyone was beyond the Urals. And this risk forced to be extremely careful.
Well, if they had struck us then from the Indian Ocean region, we simply would not have noticed it. And the new early warning systems were then just beginning to unfold.

Quote: Oleg Ogorod

Guns in these years were almost not produced, it was believed that they would not be needed in a future war. And now suddenly they were surprised how much they were needed.

Well, to be honest, the "Coalition" has been sawn from the 00s, and a number of other systems have been prepared. And over the allotted 8 years, a large number of self-propelled guns "Msta-S" underwent modernization - a good modernization. For the sake of this modernization, the mass production of the still crude "Coalition" was postponed - quantity and reliability were needed.
And the "Armata" did not go into production precisely because it was necessary to urgently prepare 2000 - 2300 tanks in a modern design. And the choice fell on the modernization of the T-72V to the level of T-72V3\V3M. moreover, they remembered a huge number of T-80BVs at storage bases and prepared a project for their modernization to the level of T-80BVM (an excellent modernization turned out, at the level of T-90M).
and it was the right choice. because we needed combat vehicles, not show-offs.
And there was sabotage.
And embezzlement.
So these two vices were chosen as the banner of the new post-Soviet government. Where to go from this, since the personnel base is like that?

Quote: Oleg Ogorod

Technological progress has long forgotten about art.

"Coalition-SV" does not agree with you. Another thing is that we needed quantity on time, and not breakthrough quality in single copies.

Quote: Oleg Ogorod

We created expensive military complexes, mainly front and exhibition, but it turned out to be the most effective cheap Iranian kherani.

Yes, there was a miscalculation with the UAV, and sabotage turned out to be the most effective.

Quote: Oleg Ogorod

But the budget was spent on many trillions for the defense industry.

One can talk a lot about embezzlers of public funds, the missing 1,5 million sets of uniforms and other acts of sabotage and sabotage, but one cannot but admit that the most responsible areas were implemented quite successfully. So, 10 brigades were re-equipped at the Iskander-M OTRK (from Tochka-U), moreover, two more additional brigades were deployed, and today we have as many as 12 of them.
And look at the number of KR "Caliber". Do you think we don’t run out of them because the embezzlers plundered the exorbitantly expensive and budget for their production?
NO ! The price of one "Caliber" costs the treasury no more than 400 thousand dollars. , and not one and a half to two million, like the Tomahawk in the USA. And the businessman who tried to break the price of its key components sat down for 10 years.
And the magnificent "Geran" turned out to be a very successful symbiosis of the Iranian platform and the Russian navigation satellite system. The result is amazing accuracy and an amazingly low price - something on the order of 40 thousand dollars.

Quote: Oleg Ogorod

There was such a fairy tale, Naked King

If our "king" really turned out to be naked, then he would have been torn to shreds long ago. But he really turned out to be not quite balanced and well-dressed. But still, they did not meet the war in shorts.
That's how many new attack helicopters we had in 2014?
And how much now?
In the summer of 2014, the Kremlin really hesitated. Between the desire to pass along both banks of the Dnieper with a swift blow, restoring order (and for this, troops were raised, the Airborne Forces generally kept equipment at the airfields in readiness for loading), but there were also fears of Anglo-Saxon intervention, for which we were not ready. A peacekeeping operation in Ukraine has not only been planned or considered by anyone before. And since there were no pre-planned plans, there were great risks of mistakes and traps from the enemy. As a result, caution won out.

And today, only a bet on Victory, but the path to it will not be quick and easy. I think this is a task for another year or two.

[2 Level Advisor]

Quote: bayard

There was no such aircraft, and what was, did not meet modern requirements, had worn-out materiel, and did not undergo modernization. the arrival of new samples was just beginning, there were no Su-35s at all, there were very few Su-30SMs.

officially from the website of the Ministry of Defense "In accordance with the State Defense Order for 2014, more than 200 aircraft and helicopters were delivered to the troops: Su-30SM, Su-34, Su-35S, Yak-130, An-148, Ka-52, Mi -28N, Mi-8AMTSh (MTV-5-1), Mi-35M, Mi-26, Ka-226 and Ansat-U."

Quote: bayard

There were very few new and modernized tanks, the T-72V3 \ V3M and T-80BVT were not even in sight at that time. "Malki", Msta-S "and other artillery systems did not even begin modernization.

The T-72B3 main battle tank has been in production since 2011.

Quote: bayard

"Malki", Msta-S "and other artillery systems did not even begin modernization. The fleet was not updated.

Was everything updated in 2022?

Quote: bayard

contractors made up only a small part of the peacetime army

from what it is, such a conclusion? how they started paying in 2011, so by 2014 it was already almost that and now .. transferring parts? yes, almost all of them were already in positions on February 24.02 ..

Quote: bayard

The missile brigades were then still re-equipping from "Point-U" to "Iskander", there was not enough KR, carriers of "Caliber" ... there were a few

the only thing I agree with is the Iskanders .. Are they hitting with calibers right at the front? over the bridges? what did Caliber decide globally for today at the front?
about nuclear weapons .. I asked -

Quote: bayard

of used MASSIVE in 2014 the Armed Forces of the Russian Federation did not have a SVO, but do they have it now?

Nuclear weapons are used together with early warning systems? and let it be known to you the early warning system and nuclear weapons, and in 2001 it was in good shape and everything worked together with the early warning system, when I directly touched it .. And it still does not apply to the missile defense system ...

Quote: bayard

Yes, and the economy was prepared during this time

I smile from this argument .. what exactly? the only thing that has been done is the replacement of SWIFT, that is, a computer program has been written and launched .. for 8 years ..

Quote: bayard

grain exports, we export poultry meat, pork, mutton (!), set up orchards, vegetable plantations ... last year they flooded Poland with their cucumbers, which almost ruined their farmers ..

let's see if it will be so good, in a year or two, when imported ones run out: chemicals, spare parts for equipment, a breeding herd and eggs from which chickens are raised, etc. in a year, it’s clear that all this will not end .. even the GDP admitted that with import substitution op-pa-pa, and you are trying to prove that everything is cool ..

Quote: bayard

And in February / March of this year, on the contrary, it took off.

and what good did it bring - to you, to me, to the country? have prices gone up?

Quote: bayard

By the way, in the Russian Federation they are starting

let's not talk about this eternal song - soon, soon, just about, just about .. and in general, I asked about 2014 and 2022, and everything else will be discussed as they build it ..
and now, against this background, the question is .. since in principle - our army has not changed since 2014 .. has the Armed Forces of Ukraine changed since 2014? but she just fundamentally changed .. i.e. these years have given them a lot, and we have only some pluses ..

[bayard]

Quote: Level 2 Advisor

question .. since in principle - our army has not changed since 2014 .. has the Armed Forces of Ukraine changed since 2014? but she just fundamentally changed .. i.e. these years have given them a lot, and we have only some pluses ..

Definitely, the Armed Forces of Ukraine received an order of magnitude greater gain during this time - they were simply CREATED, plans, algorithms and mobilization were worked out (they have been working on this in practice since 2014). A rather numerous, well-trained, superbly equipped and motivated army on psychotropics appeared. With well-developed combat interaction with NATO headquarters, intelligence centers, reconnaissance and target designation, supply logistics in a major conflict (for which they were intensively preparing), a strategy was worked out to create powerful fortified areas from large cities and deaf defense in them under the cover of the population.
In my text, I indicated WHAT guided the leadership of the Kremlin in 2014, when I hesitated between the desire to enter and restore order and the fear that everything could turn into a much larger conflict, for which they were not ready.
Then caution won, and the desire to prepare better ... And then "maybe we will agree."
But the experience of the coup attempts in Belarus and Kazakhstan showed that then, in 2014, it was necessary to act DECISIONLY and FAST. To restore order would then not have required too large forces, there would have been no "epic battles" at all, and the local population would not only have met with flowers, but also with the forces of their own security forces, would have caught and strangled all the fascist rebels. And the security forces would do it with GREAT pleasure.
In the end, Putin also admitted his mistake in 2014.

Quote: Level 2 Advisor

officially from the website of the Ministry of Defense "In accordance with the State Defense Order for 2014, more than 200 aircraft and helicopters were delivered to the troops: Su-30SM, Su-34, Su-35S, Yak-130, An-148, Ka-52, Mi -28N, Mi-8AMTSh (MTV-5-1), Mi-35M, Mi-26, Ka-226 and Ansat-U."

Here I am about that - in 2014 - 2015. the pace of delivery of aircraft (new and modernized) was just reaching its peak, but there were still few new equipment in the troops and they were ONLY MASTERING it. Yes, and this impressive list of aircraft for 2014 entered the troops with its bulk, towards the end of the year - this always happens. And it was necessary to act already in the spring.

Quote: Level 2 Advisor

The T-72B3 main battle tank has been in production since 2011.

And how many of them then were in the troops?
Smaller than the T-90.

Quote: Level 2 Advisor

Quote: bayard
"Malki", Msta-S "and other artillery systems did not even begin modernization. The fleet was not updated.

Was everything updated in 2022?

Modernization, like the rearmament of the Army, never stops, it is a continuous work process. But then this process for artillery was just beginning. And in war, the QUANTITY and the possibility of massive use are important, and not piece samples of innovative technology. That is why I believe that the decision to modernize the Msta-S self-propelled guns and other artillery systems, instead of releasing a new Coalition, was the right decision. Like the large-scale modernization of the T-72V3 \ V3M and T-80BVM tanks, instead of releasing the raw and dubious "Armata".

Quote: Level 2 Advisor

Quote: bayard
contractors made up only a small part of the peacetime army

from what it is, such a conclusion? how they started paying in 2011, so by 2014 it was already almost that and now .. transferring parts? yes, almost all of them were already in positions on February 24.02 ..

And how ready was this new "army of contract soldiers" then? And do not forget that all our heavy weapons were deployed, deployed and equipment at storage bases - all this was located beyond the Urals. And until the end of 2017, there was a transfer and deployment at the "new" bases of these formations, in the European part of the country. Just imagine that all this would have to be dragged then - in 2014 because of the Urals, what would come of it, and how our historical enemies would present it all.
And some airborne forces on their "soap dishes" might not have been enough.
And then what ?

Quote: Level 2 Advisor

the only thing I agree with is the Iskanders .. Are they hitting with calibers right at the front? over the bridges? what did Caliber decide globally for today at the front?
-

And how does Caliber (KR) differ from Iskander-K?
Only in range - due to former restrictions on the INF Treaty.
And I understand, of course, that "not a single Caliber", but to deny its role and benefit ... yes, in conditions when aviation is not able to operate in enemy airspace ... this is too much. How many bases, warehouses, factories, locations of military units, etc., have been destroyed during these months. And air-based missiles did their best here, and even DBK missiles.
And not only the very fact of the existence of such missiles turned out to be important, but also their "endlessness", as well as the cost and quantity (and variety) of its carriers.

Quote: Level 2 Advisor

Nuclear weapons are used together with early warning systems?

I would say - as a result of the "activation of the early warning system" (timely detection of the launch of the enemy's ballistic missiles towards the Russian Federation).
Back then, in 2014, far from all directions were visible. Due to the loss after the collapse of the USSR of such stations in the Baltic States, Ukraine, Azerbaijan, the independent detonation of such a radar station in Krasnoyarsk ... All these holes were closed only in 2017, and they did it in echelon only now.

Quote: Level 2 Advisor

let it be known to you the early warning system and nuclear weapons, and in 2001 it was in good shape and everything worked together with the early warning system when I directly touched it ..

The fact that our strategic nuclear forces were maintained even then in good shape, I know and remember. By the way, the early warning system was still in operation in Mingachevir (western Azerbaijan). But the fact that in 2014 huge holes gaped in our early warning radar field is an indisputable fact, they wrote about this (especially since 2017, when the holes were still closed) and showed maps with detection zones, and Putin about this in 2017 spoke. Including the phrase "Now we control all directions, but you should not relax, and most importantly - do not blink, do not give the enemy a chance."

Quote: Level 2 Advisor

I touched him directly

Strategic Missile Forces, early warning system?

Quote: Level 2 Advisor

And now it does not apply to SVO ...

To the NWO itself - of course not. But the role of early warning systems during the period of maximum aggravation of the international situation has increased manifold. It is not for nothing that strategic nuclear forces have been brought to some kind of "special" degree of readiness.

Quote: Level 2 Advisor

thousand ...
Quote: bayard
Yes, and the economy was prepared during this time

I smile from this argument .. what exactly? the only thing that has been done is the replacement of SWIFT, that is, a computer program has been written and launched .. for 8 years ..

Well, do not confuse finance and economics. Over the years, after all, complete food security has been achieved. And this is critical in case of war. And although the program of "import substitution" for the most part failed, nevertheless, the stability of the Russian economy turned out to be much higher than expected not only by enemies, but also by the internal contingent ... Not to mention the "frightened patriots". Look at the assortment in stores and supermarkets, the "domestic" auto industry is restarting, while becoming noticeably more interesting, the aviation industry is still being launched - the first MS-21 went to the customer, the first Superjet in the domestic configuration is being tested. I can also play around that "let them do it first, start releasing hundreds a year," but here is the fact that they finally relied on their own strength - full localization in the Russian Federation. And there are already flying samples, including serial ones.
And don't misunderstand me, I'm not singing odes to the Kremlin and the "party line", I'm analyzing the situation from the maximum number of sides, taking into account the maximum number of factors, challenges and threats. When in 2014 I knew that the mining of the Dneproges had been carried out and it was planned to mine the entire Dnieper cascade of dams, when I knew from the summer that two nuclear warheads had been brought to Ukraine through Odessa with the aim of provocation (you know what - Bailey's incident), I perceived the Kremlin's caution where more consciously than even now, when I see what the then caution resulted in.

[acetophenone]

By the way, Russia is starting to produce its own lithographic equipment for the production of microchips ... according to a technical process even higher than in Holland.

Konashenkov smokes enviously...

[katarsafebox.com]

Unfortunately, only in dreams.
(Admins, disable the restriction!)

[Smart ass_]

Well, Ukraine has no Russian army for several months!
This Ukrainian army is now on the territory of Russia!!

[Egeny]

Together with the complexes, the Spanish Minister of Defense Margarita Robles arrived in Odessa

For half a year they stood near Kherson, but they could also plow Nikolaev and Odessa.

[Lionnvrsk]

Quote from Egeni

arrived in Odessa together with the complexes

Did the complexes arrive in Odessa as a grain corridor?

[bayard]

Obviously so.
It is obvious that the Armed Forces of the Russian Federation cannot oppose anything to this smuggling. Rather, it was not ordered - the "partners" are exporting grain.

[Leonidych]

You won't get to Odessa except by sea. This means that the grain corridor is no longer a grain corridor, but a military transport corridor, and our ships do not control it, which is a pity. It is possible to deliver weapons and equipment more and faster by sea. Here is the grain corridor for you. What will our Foreign Ministry say about this?

[Egeny]

Quote: Oleg Ogorod

could reach Kyiv

They could, but ... like Vysotsky: "There are few real violent ones, so there are no leaders"
So Armageddonich has been around for about a month ...

[Pantsuy]

Quote from Egeni

So Armageddonich has been around for about a month ...

... But the real results are not visible

[bayard]

Quote from Egeni

Here is Armageddonich for about a month ..

Well, he's not Hottabych ... and he doesn't even have a beard to pull hairs for magical purposes. Don't expect much gusts at the front until the end of winter. And even until the middle of spring.

[Leonidych]

Everything is decided by politicians, nothing depends on the military.

[bayard]

For decisive offensives, it is necessary to accumulate sufficient forces for this, solve issues with supplies and logistics to ensure such a large grouping. And only then. Surovikin also spoke about this, albeit without details.

[Egeny]

Quote: Oleg Ogorod

mobilization resource

This "resource" is somehow quickly consumed, and the fact that weapons are again supplied to Odessa is bad

[Leonidych]

So for this, the West demanded not to close the corridor. So we didn't close.

[Architect]

Quote: Oleg Ogorod

Ukraine has a fairly large mobilization resource compared to other European countries. When pumping up its army, even with not the most modern weapons, this is a rather formidable force. For a small grouping of the Russian army in Ukraine.

Ukraine, for the most part, as a country, may cease to exist in a couple of quarters.
The energy industry has been destroyed, although not completely yet, but I think that it will not be left for long. Accordingly, the industry is at zero. Agriculture will still somehow last. But cities will definitely give up sharply in terms of economic activity. It is quite possible that the western regions of Ukraine will still exist somehow, but everything to the east will be lifeless.
Who and what will feed and provide the Ukrainian army, police and other freeloaders is a big question.
So it might be better to sit out and get everything with little blood than to rush into the attack and get nothing.
"If you sit on the river bank for a long time, you can see how the corpse of your enemy floats by"

[Svale]

Quote: Architect

"If you sit on the river bank for a long time, you can see how the corpse of your enemy floats by"

The big question is who in this story is sitting on the river bank and waiting ....

[carpenter]

Quote from Swale

The big question is who in this story is sitting on the river bank and waiting ....

A.S. Pushkin has the answer:
An old man lived with his old woman By the very blue sea; They lived in a dilapidated dugout Exactly thirty years and three years. The old man was fishing with a net, the old woman was spinning her yarn.

[Svale]

A.S. Pushkin has the answer:

I don’t mind the blue sea), but I would like to spend these thirty-three years differently ..

[carpenter]

Quote from Swale

but I would like to spend these thirty-three years differently ..

It happens - wanting is not harmful, but ....

[Oleg Ogorod]

However, a complete blackout has not been achieved in Ukraine so far. And the blows to the energy subsided and a quick recovery began. In Europe, there is not only old weapons that need to be disposed of, but also a lot of old power equipment that can be replaced with new modern ones. And send the old to Ukraine.

[Barberry25]

only so far their generation is at the level of 75 percent no higher, transformers and rolling blackouts are burning periodically.

[rocket757]

Spain delivered the first MIM-23 HAWK anti-aircraft systems to Ukraine

. They will be able to shoot, hit ... this is the question, where will they hit?

[neworange88]

The HAWK air defense system does not work well for low-altitude low-observable targets, that is, for the Kyrgyz Republic.

[rocket757]

They took it out of service for a reason ...
It cannot counteract modern threats, which means it cannot resist, to the scrap.

[Oleg Ogorod]

KR launches are tracked by NATO means, from satellites and aircraft, mostly drones, so I think they will not have big problems with guidance. It is quite possible that they were slightly modernized with the ability to work in the NATO automated detection system at a distance in Ukraine. The CR flies along a predetermined route, she does not know that a missile is flying towards her to intercept in order to dodge. The route of missile movement has long been studied. And to lay for each CD its own unique corridor of movement, well, I don’t know if this is possible. This is quite laborious work if the rocket has to fly low enough. Ukraine is densely populated, power lines, pipes, high-rise buildings. All this must either bypass or fly high.

[neworange88]

The CR flies along a predetermined route, she does not know that a missile is flying towards her to intercept in order to dodge. The route of missile movement has long been studied. And to lay for each CD its own unique corridor of movement, well, I don’t know if this is possible.

Do you think there was a blackout in Ukraine just like that? If everything were as simple as you say. Back in the now distant 2015, Caliber, when hitting targets in Syria, repeatedly changed the flight path according to the Americans.

[Oleg Ogorod]

Why did the calibers need to change the corridor when hitting the Basmachi? Did the Basmachi have air defense? And how many times did the Basmachi attack with calibers? Well, 3 times. As a weapon test. Only. More often, large bombs were simply dropped from aircraft from a height of 9 thousand km.
And the blackout in Nenko is more created by cheap Iranian shaheeds.
But it turned out to be far from a real blackout. Yes, and in the West they expressed dissatisfaction, and the blows subsided. Well, the bullshit is over. We all disperse, there will be no kin.

[Aaron Zawi]

Quote: rocket757

Spain delivered the first MIM-23 HAWK anti-aircraft systems to Ukraine

. They will be able to shoot, hit ... this is the question, where will they hit?

In 1973, we in Israel showed themselves very well. T / e for attack aircraft, helicopters and UAVs is quite a serious opponent.

[rocket757]

Percussion systems, modern, are no longer the same as they were in 1973.
They will use up ammunition quickly, at the expense of efficiency, it is doubtful.

[Aaron Zawi]

Quote: rocket757

Percussion systems, modern, are no longer the same as they were in 1973.
They will use up ammunition quickly, at the expense of efficiency, it is doubtful.

Yes, but the EPR of the SU-25/24, their speed during an attack does not differ from the MiG-21. I’m not talking about helicopters and UAVs.

[rocket757]

Countermeasures / protection, electronic warfare, have gone far ahead of those old missiles.
Of course, there is equipment that is not much younger, but modernization has been and is being carried out.
The question is ... did the old air defense systems go through at least some kind of modernization?

[Barberry25]

50 years ago for aircraft, yes, but now for cruise missiles and mopeds, it’s no longer a fact, in order for the complex to work, it must be able to shoot down specific targets, and add to yourself the inexperience of the crews with these complexes and the efficiency itself will be much lower than it seems ... if at all.

[rocket757]

The air defense systems of the past have limitations that do not allow them to be modernized, used today, as needed.
This is objective ... not in vain, they say, the limit of modernization possibilities has come! No wonder they create new complexes!

[Barberry25]

here, so the Europeans merge what is no longer good for themselves

[solar]

A more modern version of the 23 MIM-1989 HAWK - phase 3 is being delivered to Ukraine.

[rocket757]

Do not tell my horseshoes... It WAS modern 30 years ago.
Everything, there is nothing to discuss, OLD.

[solar]

there is a big difference between the 50-year-old air defense system, as your interlocutor stated, and the 1989 development.

[rocket757]

There is a DIFFERENCE ... a product that was developed in 1989 and a product that underwent the LAST, FINAL upgrade in the same year.
Question... what's the difference?

[solar]

Under the same name, Americans often produce samples of military equipment that are completely different in terms of capabilities for decades.

Global improvement of the complex for the introduction of new computing tools and software for most of the main components of the system, including the new CWAR AN / MPQ-62 detection radar, which received the ability to detect targets from the first mark in the review and the upgraded radar for tracking and illuminating the target and guiding the AN SAM / MPQ-61 HPI with the new LASHE (Low-Altitude Simultaneous Hawk Engagement) system. The LASHE system allowed the complex to withstand a massive raid and simultaneously intercept several low-flying targets.

[rocket757]

Modernization can be of different levels, there is no need to argue, but to carefully understand what, how, why and why ... but the system was decommissioned as obsolete, and this is an objective assessment of THEIR specialists.

[solar]

It is still in service in two dozen countries. The fact that the Americans replaced it with the Patriot is not an indicator, they have enough money for this.

[rocket757]

Everyone who can afford it is changing outdated systems for new ones ... it's a natural process.
One more aspect... serious guys expect/suppose to fight against strike systems, modern... and wherever there, in the distance, strike systems, like those that oppose them, are of the same level.
This is not an option for the Kukuevskys.

[solar]

The West has switched to the latest generation of anti-aircraft systems - with active and matrix seekers and multifunctional radars with accompaniment during the review process. You will know that a rocket is flying at you a few seconds before the explosion - when the missile seeker turns on, or you won’t even know at all if the seeker is passive matrix.
But this does not mean that air defense systems with a probability of hitting 0,85, which has been repeatedly tested in real combat conditions, are hopelessly outdated. They just came out better.

[rocket757]

The only objective assessment is the results of the actual application of certain systems ... and even then, much is hidden, distorted, by the "fog of war" ... we hear and see confirmation of this more than once.
And, EVERYBODY is guilty of this, to one degree or another.

[solar]

It already exists. Both Nasams and Iris T have already shown themselves very well in Ukraine.
Hawk, on the other hand, was used in many wars, and also showed itself very well, so an efficiency of 85 percent is a very worthy result.

[Leader_Barmaleev]

Only one question - why, at the time of unloading these air defense systems, they were not attacked by a missile attack? By the way, it would be very good to clean up the Spanish minister, so that others would be discouraged

[Oleg Ogorod]

Why did you decide that the complexes arrived by sea to Odessa? Because Odessa is a port city? It can be delivered to Odessa by road from Moldova and Romania. The city of Izmail is located on the Romanian border. Not to mention the possibility of delivery from Western Ukraine.
Why Odessa is the front line of defense on the Black Sea, from where Russian calibers fly. From ships and submarines of the Black Sea Fleet. And also from the Crimea from the Iskanders. And Odessa will cover western Ukraine from these missiles.
Well, the minister could have arrived on a grain ship. Hired maybe to be a barmaid on it for a while. This is not prohibited by the deal.

[Ricochet]

Considering the moment of arrival of the head of the Ministry of Defense from Spain to Odessa, it turns out that the complexes were received by sea, i.e., under a grain deal.

[rotmistr60]

Together with the complexes, the Spanish Minister of Defense Margarita Robles arrived in Odessa

Sounds good. And under what agreement was it delivered to Ukraine along with the complexes, and what will it cover? Then Scholz will arrive with tanks, Macron with self-propelled guns, the Poles themselves will come ... Isn't it time to discourage all European prime ministers, ministers to calmly visit this country and even make anti-Russian statements from there?

[Ghost1]

I think there is some kind of agreement that when Western "partners" arrive, the Russian Federation does not strike on the city that day. Well, not a contract, but just multiple coincidences.

[agel26r]

I agree. It’s high time to gasp, I think our information is at the disposal of who, when and where they will arrive. so isn't it time to calibrate these tourists at the highest level so that it would be disrespectful to others, we will never become good for them,

[Comrade I]

MIM-23 HAWK (Homing All the Way Killer)

Homing All the Way Killer is an unofficial "backronym". Adding it to the news is inappropriate.

[katarsafebox.com]

That's right, let the "zahists" shoot even more houses with rockets ...

[agel26r]

Spanish shame, oh those same ones, in the hope of tearing off a piece of the Russian pie.

[Egeny]

Quote: leonidych

So we didn't close.

Leonidich, not everything is so simple.
grain, fertilizer... their officials, our officials... politeness

[Egeny]

Quote: Pantsuy

... And the results are real

Alex, he's not a god. I got what I got ... I have already said that the previous ... "chewed snot" for six months. Too late to rush. Let the center win back, then it will be easier.

[Egeny]

Quote: bayard

until the end of winter

That's for sure, not Hottabych, but so far there have been no "regroupings" with a retreat. Let's wait.

[Egeny]

Quote: leonidych

nothing depends on the military.

Well, Leonidich, I don't agree. It even depends on the bad military.

[Viktor Sergeev]

Where did they dig it up? All scrap metal is taken away.

[Egeny]

Quote: carpenter

thirty years and three years.

It's certainly fun, but very long.)
The mobilized were separated from their families for a reason.
It was also possible to recruit contract servicemen from the active army, again tankers, missilemen ...
Run in the Air Force ... Maybe that's how it's done, we don't know.

[Elephant]

Well, guide our strikes on the Odessa seaport?

[Carlos Hall]

These are museum pieces. As for the Spanish Minister, she is one of the monkeys worn at fairs.

[Boniface]

We know!
Seen! There will be nothing new!