Military Review

Frankenstein must die. Kyiv's futile attempts to create a Ukrainian political nation failed

56
Frankenstein must die. Kyiv's futile attempts to create a Ukrainian political nation failed




“Everything was clear.
The house was doomed. He couldn't help but burn.
And, indeed, at twelve o'clock at night he blazed,
set on fire from six ends at once.

Ilya Ilf, Evgeny Petrov "The Golden Calf".

For several years now, the press has been discussing the topic of the difference in mentalities of different regions of Ukraine. Everyone understands that the country is really different, patchwork, often not understanding and not accepting its own fellow citizens from other regions.

Ukraine is indeed very reminiscent of the hero of Mary Shelley's novel, the monster created by Victor Frankenstein. And the fate of the country, in terms of frequency of mention and interpretation, is similar to this character. The image of Frankenstein, as the image of Ukraine today, has been used and is being used by writers, directors and other creative people to create new horror characters.

Kyiv today is actively pushing the idea of ​​the unity of the Ukrainian people after February 24th. There are more recent storylines in this direction. Now the Ukrainian people have been united by the beginning of active shelling of Ukrainian infrastructure by Russian artillery and VKS. In fact, the same Frankenstein is being played again. The same monster assembled from parts.

So is the Ukrainian nation united today? Is the fact that the majority of soldiers and officers of the Armed Forces of Ukraine in everyday life and at the front speak Russian, judging by radio intercepts, even now, is a factor in uniting the citizens of Ukraine into a single political nation? Questions that we need to get answered, or at least understand why this is happening.

This is not a reflection on the topic, it is very relevant for determining the future of the country. The country that, I hope so, will remain on the territory of the former Ukraine. A different country, with different borders, with a different president and government, perhaps even with a different name. But countries ... Who will live in this country? ..

Why are there many more Russian speakers in the trenches than Ukrainians?


I think this question is the most relevant for most readers. As well as the question of the composition of the most radical nationalist organizations. It is no secret that after the surrender of Azov in Mariupol, many were shocked by the fact that many Ukrainian nationalists turned out to be ethnic Russians. And those Russians who over the years went to Ukraine also ended up in the ranks of nationalist battalions.

Let me express my own version of this fact. In my opinion, everything is quite simple. In the pre-Maid time, the nationalists could not boast of popularity. The usual percentage of radicals, as in any country in the world. However, the Maidan, or rather, the use of the nationalists as the main driving force of the coup, changed the situation.

Uniforms, hangouts, and this is how the first marches were perceived, the taking of some kind of oath in the squares, the whole external entourage of the gatherings of nationalists naturally attracted young people. And when it suddenly turned out that you would not be responsible for your antics, there was also a feeling of your own exclusivity. superiority over others.

Remember the slogans of that period? Ukraine is not Russia and so on? There were no talks about the need to destroy everything Russian and all Russians. It was then, at the next stage, that Svoboda leader Oleg Tyagnibok openly declared the need to destroy all Russians in Ukraine. Exterminate 5-6 million according to the lists compiled by the members of Svoboda, and the problem will disappear.

And then there was an opportunity not only to show off in front of the girls in uniform, but also to earn money. Do you remember how the authorities used right-wingers and other radicals for power actions? This is where the problem of Russians in the PS manifested itself. The paid actions were carried out mostly against pro-Russian organizations.

So the nationalists had to "forget" that they were Russians. Partly because of the money, partly because of the fear that they would suspect that you were helping the Russians. Yes, it was fear and money that pushed Russian speakers to extreme radicalism. Russian steel bоmore Ukrainians than the Ukrainians themselves.

The most terrible crimes then were committed by Russian speakers. For the same reason, Russian speakers, for the most part, were the first to go to the front as part of the national battalions.

But this is only a small part of the fighters at the front. And why did ordinary Ukrainians go? After all, they are the main part of the Armed Forces of Ukraine. Here the usual craving of a simple person for a position of non-intervention worked. My hut on the edge in the classic version.

We are used to everything big. A big city, big plants and factories, etc. The settlements of Ukraine, including most cities, are small settlements in terms of population, where everyone knows each other. Kyiv is making a great move. He announces mobilization. First of all, for those who wanted to sit out and not participate in all this.

Remember the shots of this very mobilization. When men were simply caught throughout the settlement, like stray dogs. And straight to the front. Tie with blood. He participated in the war, which means he killed Russian soldiers. And then propaganda. Everyone who killed Russians will be sent to Kolyma or Novaya Zemlya...

I think now the amazement of Ukrainian prisoners is understandable when they are provided with medical assistance, when they are sent not to Siberia, but to the LPR or DPR, when they are kept in decent (for war) conditions. But it's time for an exchange. The desire to see the family, to return to a simple and understandable peaceful life overpowers the instinct of self-preservation.

Already when crossing the line of demarcation, the former prisoners understand that they have returned to that other reality. And again, out of fear and the desire to please those who meet them, they shout their slogan about glory. And then back to the front. Tied with blood, money, "famous" at home, which means, in the event of a victory for Russia, quickly handed over to the authorities by their own neighbors ...

I do not envy the Ukrainian soldiers and officers... The situation, frankly, is awful. Wherever you throw, everywhere is a wedge. Kyiv has created a situation where for those who heroically fight on the Ukrainian side, there is simply nothing left but "to the last Ukrainian." Participation in the database, alas, involves the destruction of the enemy.

So united or disparate?


The huge losses suffered by the Armed Forces of Ukraine forced Kyiv to take very dangerous measures. From the point of view of political stability, of course. Residents of western Ukraine began to be sent en masse to the war. Accordingly, coffins began to be brought back. This caused outrage among the people.

Before that, every death was perceived as a tragedy. The Internet was filled with videos of funerals and kneeling people. Now this video is rare. Is that the funeral of one of the Heroes of Ukraine. Kyiv is very vigilantly watching its segment on the Internet.

The President and his representatives almost on a daily basis inspire Ukrainians with the idea that in one trench, in one tank, and one crew of an armored car is sworn brothers, soldiers of one army, one nation ... Theoretically and practically, this is so. Today, Kyiv is not up to moral suffering and language problems at the front.

But look at Ukrainian social networks. For a long time, the events in the east of the country were perceived by Western Ukrainians rather neutrally. Well, there are some separatists, some collaborators. What are we? We have other problems. We need to plow, sow, build houses, etc. Now everything has changed.

The population of western Ukraine is mostly rural. The industry is much less developed than in the east, where most men work in some enterprises and receive a salary. The villagers, by virtue of the very organization of rural life, are very dependent on men. The main worker in the family. The breadwinner, if you will.

And this very breadwinner was taken to the war. Not only are women now forced to do the “male” work, it is also not known whether he will return at all. At the same time, people do not understand why their men have to die for some kind of east of Ukraine. Alien to them by faith, by tradition, by language and way of life.

Simply put, instead of the desired unification of the nation, Kyiv received an even greater rejection of the east and west. It is highly doubtful to me that even after many years this situation will change. Today we should talk about a new division of the people. Separation of the central and eastern parts of the country.

I am far from thinking that western Ukraine will rise up in protest against the actions of Kyiv. There will be some speeches, rallies, people's gatherings. But no more. This will not affect the Kyiv authorities in any way. Not that scale. But the internal division of Ukraine is not only preserved, but also intensified.

One and indivisible... already been


I already wrote that Ukraine, as one of the largest states (even after the rejection of Crimea and 4 regions) of Europe, is not needed by the global West. The Europeans had enough of Poland, from which they grew not a showcase of Western democracy, as planned, but a competitor. A competitor who is ready to do anything for the favor of the United States, but not Europe.

It is much safer to follow the path of the USSR, Yugoslavia or Czechoslovakia. Destroy the state through civil war, external attack or peacefully through elections. A few small states that have little meaning in international politics will not be able to break the structure of relations in Europe, but another Poland will really change.

Alas, this suits the Ukrainians themselves quite well. Despite the militant rhetoric and calls for unity, the east of the country is more and more inclined to separate from the western part of the country and vice versa, the west does not see itself in the same state with the east. The rift is growing.

If a referendum on the unity of Ukraine were held today, I would definitely not bet that the people would vote for a united country. And it is not we, not the NWO, and not even the United States and the West that are to blame for this. The Ukrainians themselves are to blame, who for many decades of living in the USSR, and then in an independent state, never became a people, a political nation.

Personally, I am sad to see how the people, the state, the nation, which the Bolsheviks took care of for so long, then the communists, as it turned out, did not become part of the great Soviet, Russian people. Small peoples, several thousand and even hundreds of people, have become part of a great people, have become a great people, but the huge Ukrainian people have not.

Frankenstein is still Frankenstein. A monster assembled from pieces of people... Or, which should be closer to the Ukrainians, Sharikov remained just Sharikov even in the guise of a man... But the most important thing is that nothing can be changed. Rubicon crossed...
Author:
56 comments
Ad

Subscribe to our Telegram channel, regularly additional information about the special operation in Ukraine, a large amount of information, videos, something that does not fall on the site: https://t.me/topwar_official

Information
Dear reader, to leave comments on the publication, you must sign in.
  1. parusnik
    parusnik 30 November 2022 05: 52
    +8
    I already wrote that Ukraine, as one of the largest states (even after the rejection of Crimea and 4 regions) of Europe, is not needed by the global West.
    And I wrote that the West does not need to create a new union on the territory of the post-Soviet space. The goal has been reached.
    1. Civil
      Civil 30 November 2022 07: 17
      +4
      Dear Author, what to do now? They have firmly united there in the face of the "enemy", and we have fallen into isolation. Which exit?
      1. rocket757
        rocket757 30 November 2022 08: 03
        +2
        So they managed to put them together and set them on against ... but it's not that they are friends among themselves, friends ... here only with time and after certain events it will be possible to put everything in its place, ON THE FACT OF THE EVENTS, but not because someone says so.
        Quote: Civil
        and we are in isolation.

        Where? show us the orphan, otherwise you can’t see that insulation very well ... maybe it’s nano insulation? So this is for the Chubais and other ... syats, they can see it.
        1. Ulan.1812
          Ulan.1812 30 November 2022 21: 10
          +4
          Quote: rocket757
          So they managed to put them together and set them on against ... but it's not that they are friends among themselves, friends ... here only with time and after certain events it will be possible to put everything in its place, ON THE FACT OF THE EVENTS, but not because someone says so.
          Quote: Civil
          and we are in isolation.

          Where? show us the orphan, otherwise you can’t see that insulation very well ... maybe it’s nano insulation? So this is for the Chubais and other ... syats, they can see it.

          I was very surprised that you were given minuses. It is written correctly that there is no isolation, and the United States and its six are only a quarter of the world.
          Yes, and they continue to trade with us.
          1. rocket757
            rocket757 30 November 2022 22: 09
            +6
            The worst evaluation is when there is no evaluation! And the minus, it is also in Africa, just a minus, i.e. written does not leave a person indifferent.
            For me, personally, sho is a plus, sho is a minus, neither here nor there ... but zero, indifference, this is a suggestion / hint, you need to write more interesting, smarter, at least.
            In this particular case ... what is, then described, nothing more. Some are not ready to accept reality and hope that their petty dirty tricks will at least do something to someone ... but everything is simple, it is reality!
            1. Ulan.1812
              Ulan.1812 30 November 2022 22: 16
              0
              Quote: rocket757
              The worst evaluation is when there is no evaluation! And the minus, it is also in Africa, just a minus, i.e. written does not leave a person indifferent.
              For me, personally, sho is a plus, sho is a minus, neither here nor there ... but zero, indifference, this is a suggestion / hint, you need to write more interesting, smarter, at least.
              In this particular case ... what is, then described, nothing more. Some are not ready to accept reality and hope that their petty dirty tricks will at least do something to someone ... but everything is simple, it is reality!

              Well, if from this point of view, then I agree.
      2. The comment was deleted.
        1. Civil
          Civil 30 November 2022 12: 20
          +4
          My grandfather went through the whole war from Moscow to Prague. He always said that "the Fritz were not fools as they showed us in the movies" and it's time for us to get rid of the illusions of "geyropa. Sumerians, fools" and the like. Everything is serious and a cunning and treacherous enemy is fighting against us.
      3. Ulan.1812
        Ulan.1812 30 November 2022 21: 21
        +2
        Quote: Civil
        Dear Author, what to do now? They have firmly united there in the face of the "enemy", and we have fallen into isolation. Which exit?

        There is no association there.
        But there is hard coercion and terror. This is a strong "association" and it will crumble with strong defeats and failures, and so on.
        So it's not all that clear.
        And there are detachments and intimidation of the fate of relatives and drugs, in order to drown out the fear and the stubborn and zombified by propaganda is enough.
        Terrible vinaigrette.
        They hold on only because we do not win decisive victories. When they run, all their unity will end.
        We must destroy this fake unity with our victories. Galicians and eastern inhabitants of Ukraine have never been and will be united.
        Almost 9 million inhabitants of the square fled over the hill, what kind of unity are we talking about.
  2. Vladimir80
    Vladimir80 30 November 2022 06: 19
    +11
    And what do we all think about the Ukrainians? everything is fine with them - the entire Western world in one impulse rushed to help them, and the United States will arrange for them both the state, and the language, and the constitution, and gay parades, and other necessary attributes of a "modern Western country" ... Let's think about our country , and what depends on us in terms of the dispensation of our lives!
    1. dmi.pris1
      dmi.pris1 30 November 2022 20: 30
      -1
      That's right. We need to think first about our people, about our lives. But we got involved in the war, and now, before we arrange our lives, we need to win.
  3. rotmistr60
    rotmistr60 30 November 2022 06: 42
    +5
    Do not argue on this topic, but the United States and Europe have achieved their goal - today an ethnic Russian from Ukraine is at war with an ethnic Russian from Russia, and the so-called. "Ukrainian people" fiercely hates Russia and everyone who lives in it. Therefore, it is long necessary to stop at the level of officials and deputies the ranting about "one fraternal people." Before us is an enemy, and a cruel and mocking one, receiving support from the collective West and ready to destroy us.
  4. Nikolay Malyugin
    Nikolay Malyugin 30 November 2022 07: 57
    +2
    Money matters a lot, but not everything. Yanukovych took three billion dollars, and at that time he said, "Our eyes are fixed on Europe." If we talk about artificiality, then we have the whole post-Soviet space like that. We should have paid attention when history began to be changed in Ukraine. This is the first sign of ultra-nationalism. But our oligarchs ... in general, what to tell. Everyone knows this.
    1. your1970
      your1970 1 December 2022 00: 31
      0
      Quote: Nikolay Malyugin
      But our oligarchs

      Apparently these are "oligarchs" in 1988 our battalion commander UKRAINIAN, for the "ruble" - and not the "karbovanets", they beat him up so much - that he lay in hospitals for two months ...
      It’s just that these “oligarchs” were, yeah ... in 1988 ...
  5. rocket757
    rocket757 30 November 2022 07: 57
    +6
    Personally, I am sad to see how the people, the state, the nation, which the Bolsheviks took care of for so long, then the communists, as it turned out, did not become part of the great Soviet, Russian people.
    Pulled an owl on a globe...
    No serious analysis, they stuffed their own "most correct conclusions" and ... in general, complete garbage.
    The question is ... why did he write this?
    1. The comment was deleted.
      1. rocket757
        rocket757 30 November 2022 12: 24
        0
        Let them. Everyone looks and evaluates the appropriate exhibits.
    2. Zakirov Damir
      Zakirov Damir 1 December 2022 23: 43
      0
      Quote: rocket757
      The question is ... why did he write this?

      So the point is at the very beginning of the topic:

      "This is not a reflection on the topic, it is very relevant for determining the future of the country. The country that, I hope, will remain on the territory of the former Ukraine. Another country, within other borders, with a different president and government, perhaps even with a different name But countries... "
  6. kor1vet1974
    kor1vet1974 30 November 2022 08: 01
    +2
    So is Russia, the West, as a competitor, does not need the rest of the republics in the post-Soviet space. Yes, and servants for the United States, in the post-Soviet space, they also do not need to be fed, except that the serfs who need to be fed are "three crusts of bread" (c) will be sufficient. And they don’t want the serfs to unite in the same space, because they will burn down the manor’s estate. They remember when the serfs were united in the post-Soviet space and remember well. trying to cancel, it's not clear.
  7. The comment was deleted.
  8. paul3390
    paul3390 30 November 2022 09: 07
    +2
    Ukrainian nationalists turned out to be ethnic Russians

    This - for me personally, has always blown my brain ... After all, for any normal Russian - all this raguli with movnyuks is simply obliged to go along the line of naked Papuanism .. To exchange the great Russian culture, the resounding glory of the victories of their ancestors, glorious history, epic achievements, a huge country - FOR WHAT?? belay I do not understand... fool
    1. filibuster
      filibuster 30 November 2022 13: 48
      -4
      FOR WHAT??


      Apparently for life now, you, as Russian propaganda has been doing for the last 20 years, have been offering to live in the past. Our propaganda clearly traces the narrative that we live poorly, dirty, but that's in the past, and we also have Pushkin and rockets and resources that need to be protected from the adversary. In Ukraine, they verbally do not want to live in the past, while in our country the past is one of our pillars, or, as they like to say, braces.
      1. Plate
        Plate 30 November 2022 15: 46
        0
        Yes, our propaganda is organized incorrectly - I agree. We need to draw images that we’ll do this and that, and after a few years, we hope there will be this and that, and everything must be said in the most general terms, so that everyone agrees, they say, yes, this we need. But no, everything revolves around the victory in the Second World War. If we really want to get involved in the past, then why only the Second World War? There were other great victories in the history of Russia.
        1. Reptiloid
          Reptiloid 30 November 2022 17: 04
          +9
          Quote: Plate
          Yes, our propaganda is organized incorrectly - I agree. We need to draw images, what will we do ....... If we really want to get involved in the past, then why only the Second World War? There were other great victories in the history of Russia.

          hi And how can one "draw images" if there is no picture of the Future for Russia? Actually, everyone has their own, I guess. But the general picture, understandable to all and accepted by all, has not been proclaimed.
          It is good to remember the Bolsheviks. Their vision of the future was immediately announced and they began immediately to carry out actions to implement. And the people saw it.
          1. Plate
            Plate 30 November 2022 17: 50
            +2
            Yes, what the Bolsheviks knew how to do was proclaim global goals in the future.
            1. Reptiloid
              Reptiloid 30 November 2022 18: 45
              +7
              I think the irony is out of place here. For example, study, education, medicine, organization of leisure for workers already in the first decade of SOVIET POWER. In 1924, the children's magazine MURZILKA began to be published for preschool children and elementary school. The upbringing of SOVIET children. The first political literacy good it was this generation that defended the USSR.
              1. Plate
                Plate 30 November 2022 18: 51
                +2
                Quote: Reptiloid
                For example, studies, education, medicine, organization of leisure time for workers already in the first decade.

                Moreover, the preparation of an agrarian country for a world war in just a couple of decades. I do not at all deny the achievements of the Bolsheviks. But they never achieved their stated goals.
                1. Reptiloid
                  Reptiloid 30 November 2022 18: 56
                  +3
                  When I was typing, something went wrong and part of my comment turned out to be at the bottom? request recourse
                  Quote: Plate
                  ..... they did not achieve the proclaimed final goals.

                  And no one has ever been able to achieve everything planned
                  1. Plate
                    Plate 30 November 2022 19: 10
                    +3
                    Technique likes to buck sometimes. Such jokes can give out that even stand, even fall.
                    Quote: Reptiloid
                    And no one has ever been able to achieve everything planned

                    I've planned on the weekend to sleep for 8 hours from Saturday to Sunday. Prodrykh. Even overfulfilled.
                    1. Reptiloid
                      Reptiloid 30 November 2022 20: 17
                      +2
                      Quote: Plate
                      ..... I've planned on the weekend to sleep 8 hours from Saturday to Sunday. Prodrykh. Even overfulfilled.

                      And do something for this drinks didn't have to
                2. Ulan.1812
                  Ulan.1812 30 November 2022 21: 01
                  0
                  Quote: Plate
                  Quote: Reptiloid
                  For example, studies, education, medicine, organization of leisure time for workers already in the first decade.

                  Moreover, the preparation of an agrarian country for a world war in just a couple of decades. I do not at all deny the achievements of the Bolsheviks. But they never achieved their stated goals.

                  Painfully, the prices were global and majestic. Nobody has done anything like this before.
                  There was no experience and there was no one to see how others did it.
                  There was no training manual, everything had to be solved along the way, through trial and error.
                  It was not for nothing that Stalin at the end of his life said that without a theory we die.
                  After him, there was simply no one to develop the theory of building socialism.
                  Not Khrushchev. That is why the collapse of the USSR is a pattern. Yes, and performers, those still.
                  1. Reptiloid
                    Reptiloid 30 November 2022 22: 28
                    +2
                    Quote: Ulan.1812
                    ..... the collapse of the USSR is a regularity. Yes, and performers, those still.

                    When global goals were set, and at the same time understandable and accepted by all the population, there were resources and forces, opportunities for implementation. This is post-revolutionary development and post-war
                    Russian economic miracle
                    .
                    After all, something happened that never happened ---- the creation of a SYSTEM of socialist states. As soon as the nomenklatura abandoned global goals, Stalin was slandered, ---gradually, development and achievements began to stop.
                    1. Ulan.1812
                      Ulan.1812 30 November 2022 22: 51
                      +2
                      Quote: Reptiloid
                      Quote: Ulan.1812
                      ..... the collapse of the USSR is a regularity. Yes, and performers, those still.

                      When global goals were set, and at the same time understandable and accepted by all the population, there were resources and forces, opportunities for implementation. This is post-revolutionary development and post-war
                      Russian economic miracle
                      .
                      After all, something happened that never happened ---- the creation of a SYSTEM of socialist states. As soon as the nomenklatura abandoned global goals, Stalin was slandered, ---gradually, development and achievements began to stop.

                      That's it. The destructive activity of Khrushchev has yet to be assessed.
      2. Skif
        Skif 1 December 2022 21: 45
        0
        E, no! You really live "poorly-dirty". But in Europe. If you don't want to remember (not live!) About the past, that's up to you.
        PS And Pushkin does not need protection from the adversary.
    2. Santa Fe
      Santa Fe 30 November 2022 16: 05
      +4
      resounding glory of victories

      They have their victories

      They did the impossible back in March-April, they stopped the army of a nuclear power
    3. Ulan.1812
      Ulan.1812 30 November 2022 21: 06
      +3
      Quote: paul3390
      Ukrainian nationalists turned out to be ethnic Russians

      This - for me personally, has always blown my brain ... After all, for any normal Russian - all this raguli with movnyuks is simply obliged to go along the line of naked Papuanism .. To exchange the great Russian culture, the resounding glory of the victories of their ancestors, glorious history, epic achievements, a huge country - FOR WHAT?? belay I do not understand... fool

      There are examples even worse, which also does not fit in the head.
      The FSB detains RUSSIAN nationalists who, on the orders of the Ukrainian Nazis, were going to kill RUSSIAN people.
      Yes, how can you then call yourself a Russian nationalist if you are a slave of Ukrainian
      the Nazis.
      How they get it in their head is not clear
      Probably morons.
  9. populist
    populist 30 November 2022 09: 15
    +2
    The article differs from reality, as white differs from black. The author presents his desires as reality. Reality is strictly the opposite.
    There is already a Ukrainian nation (= people). And there is for a long time - 100 years, as it is.
    The United States needs a united, integral and militarily strong Ukraine, like a battering ram against Russia, like anti-Russia, in Putin's words.
    In Ukraine, our enemies are unprincipled enemies, extremely cruel and ready for any meanness. And if Ukraine is not destroyed, it will forever remain our worst enemy.
    Yes, there are our people in Ukraine, but they are few, they are crushed and weak.
    Carthage must be destroyed.
    1. Dante Alighieri
      Dante Alighieri 30 November 2022 09: 39
      +6
      There is already a Ukrainian nation (= people). And there is for a long time - 100 years, as it is.

      I do not agree. The Ukrainian people are as ancient as the Great Russians. But the Ukrainian nation, on the contrary, is relatively young. She is only 8 years old. And if the Ukrainian people really have fraternal relations with us, then the Ukrainian nation is a political entity completely alien to us. But this is the subject of a separate large article.
      1. populist
        populist 30 November 2022 11: 06
        -3
        Quote: Dante
        The Ukrainian people are as ancient as the Great Russian

        There has never been such a "Great Russian" people.
        There are Russian people.
        Quote: Dante
        But the Ukrainian nation, on the contrary, is relatively young

        Nation and people are the same concept. The concept of nation was introduced to mask assimilation, voluntarily or involuntarily.
        Quote: Dante
        The Ukrainian people are just as ancient

        The concept of the Ukrainian people is absent from the 0th to the 19th century.
        1. Foul skeptic
          Foul skeptic 30 November 2022 11: 59
          0
          The concept of the Ukrainian people is absent from the 0th to the 19th century.

          If we interpret the concept of "people" one-sidedly, ignoring its ethno-component, leaving only the political one. In this form, we get an example of "Schrödinger's cat" in ethnography / ethnology.
        2. Dante Alighieri
          Dante Alighieri 30 November 2022 13: 53
          +1
          There are Russian people.

          I do not argue, but the question is when did it appear? Initially, if you remember history, there was no Russian people, there were a handful of relatively ethnically homogeneous tribes: Vyatichi, Krivech, Polyan, Drevlyan, etc. Then Novgorod by force united everyone into a single community, the capital of which was the capital city of Kyiv. Should this be considered the beginning of the Russian people? If yes, then what about those regional and cultural differences that continued to exist at the everyday level for many decades and even centuries? Then came fragmentation, which further deepened the divide between people living in different principalities. Moreover, this process was also superimposed on the weakening of previously existing trade routes and the emergence of new external threats, which negatively affected the economic situation of entire regions. All together caused a massive outflow of the population from the previously most prosperous regions, starting the process of internal migration to more attractive and "safe" principalities: first Vladimir and Pskov, then Tver and Moscow. Klyuchevsky's lectures describe this process in great detail. But migration went not only to the northeast, it also went to the west, in addition, there were those who decided not to move anywhere, but remained to live on the land where he and his ancestors were born. Subsequently, the Mongols-Totars will pass through them more than once, taking bloody tribute and driving people into captivity. In the end, almost deserted and useless lands with the remnants of the population will be taken over by the Commonwealth. If simplified, this is exactly how the process of formation of three key Russian nationalities took place: Great Russian, Little Russian (Ukrainian) and Belarusian. The only question is which of them is more Russian? It is clear that somewhere the cultural code has been better preserved, and somewhere worse, but as I showed in my retrospective, these differences between us have always existed. Therefore, in my understanding, the truly Russian people enter the stage only when all three of its components are united within a single state entity. Until this moment, we are anyone: Russians, Great Russians, Ukrainians, Belarusians, but only being all together do we have the right to be called truly Russian people with all our cultural and linguistic diversity.
          Nation and people are the same concepts

          No, they are completely different concepts. To describe how they differ is too long and it requires considerable explanation. I will focus on just one aspect. Neither in antiquity, nor in the Middle Ages, nor even in modern times, nations in the modern sense did not exist. As there were no nation-states. On the standards of the Roman legions flaunted the abbreviation SPQR, which translated as "Senate and people of Rome." I draw attention to the "people", not the nation, the people. Similarly, the concept of a nation did not exist among the ancient Greeks, nor among the Egyptians, nor among the Jews, nor among the Germans or Franks. A nation is a product of modern times, but what this is connected with, I suggest you think for yourself at your leisure. I assure you, this is a very exciting exercise that can lead to very interesting, albeit ambiguous, conclusions.
    2. domokl
      1 December 2022 09: 15
      0
      Bravo. Beautifully led the discussion to the side. The article is about a political nation ... The appearance of knowledge does not mean the presence of knowledge
  10. Maks1995
    Maks1995 30 November 2022 10: 21
    0
    What did you want before?
    Strelkov (and Duma members) claimed that Russian Oligarchs invested in Ukrainian nationalists. Those. in the current war.

    but about the oligarchs - no, no. And all about the west, west, west ... and so on. (Ukraine is not needed by the West, the Ukrainians are to blame, to tie everyone with blood, mobilized, like dogs were caught and the rest of the usual PR coming out)
    1. kor1vet1974
      kor1vet1974 30 November 2022 11: 09
      +1
      but about the oligarchs - no, no. And all about the west, west, west ...
      Yeah, like Ukrainian and Russian oligarchs, nothing to do with it (they have no disagreements), but just their West, decided to stroke the skins against it. Well, they have nothing to do with the West. laughing
  11. Aleprok
    Aleprok 30 November 2022 10: 35
    +2
    written too cloyingly ... the west of Ukraine should also feel the charm of the shelling that their "brothers" do in the east, otherwise they will get off too easily and they won't even feel the "sobering" in their viper
  12. know
    know 30 November 2022 12: 04
    +1
    Between the Russians of Russia and Ukraine they are carefully organizing a river of blood, which will not soon be forgotten on both sides. Such is Putin's "denazification" - with an unprecedented increase in anti-Russian sentiment even in the Russian-speaking cities of Ukraine, the elimination of the last monuments (even to Pushkin) and the renaming of the last streets, the names of which are somehow connected with Russia or remind of it.
  13. filibuster
    filibuster 30 November 2022 13: 57
    +3
    So is the Ukrainian nation united today? Is the fact that the majority of soldiers and officers of the Armed Forces of Ukraine in everyday life and at the front speak Russian, judging by radio intercepts, even now, is a factor in uniting the citizens of Ukraine into a single political nation? Questions that we need to get answered, or at least understand why this is happening.


    They say and say, is it decisive, English is the state language of a dozen countries, but from this the peoples / nations of these countries do not become English. In Belarus, despite the Russian language, they do not consider themselves Russian and identify themselves as a separate nation.
    Yes, and some petty questions, let them think or identify themselves as they wish, but the fact that the Ukrainian people for the most part united against Russia is a fact, unfortunate, but a fact, and apart from the territory of the LDNR, Russian troops are not welcome anywhere did not meet.
  14. Reptiloid
    Reptiloid 30 November 2022 18: 49
    +2
    Quote: Plate
    ... the Bolsheviks knew how to proclaim global goals in the future.

    And when they stopped proclaiming and implementing ---- then the bourgeois through their intrigues were able to destroy the USSR
  15. runway-1
    runway-1 30 November 2022 20: 51
    0
    Kyiv's futile attempts to create a Ukrainian political nation failed
    This is the opinion of the author, but the reality is somewhat different - much has been done to unite it ...
  16. Sergey Averchenkov
    Sergey Averchenkov 30 November 2022 22: 02
    -2
    Again about Ukrainians... like there are good ones, there are bad ones, and there are no sewn at all ... a sleeve. I'll put it simply - I don't understand the varieties of shit.
  17. zxmobil
    zxmobil 30 November 2022 22: 31
    +3
    Again you offend my "beloved" pianist. Still, no one plays the piano better than him. Now he walks through the same place through narrow-minded Ukrainians, they are all on "glory", as if they are sitting on coke, turn on any video. No need to explain and justify them saying they were intimidated, forced. Just remember 11 of our guys. If there hadn't been an operation, the whole of Donetsk would have been so destroyed by these "glorious" guys.
  18. The comment was deleted.
  19. certero
    certero 1 December 2022 03: 36
    -1
    The article seems to be from the past.
    I recommend the author to read the definition of a nation. At the same time, remember that the presence of the Ukrainian nation happened long before the ninety-first year. And the policy of denying this very existence will not lead Russia to anything good.
    Because the enemy has a clear description of the future, but we do not
    1. domokl
      1 December 2022 05: 03
      0
      A political nation is a set of citizens of a country, regardless of their social status, language, religion, origin and other social and group differences, have equal rights and, on the basis of democratic institutions of political power and forms of political participation, legally established norms and procedures, exercise state self-government, have political and legal sovereignty, united by feelings of solidarity and the ideology of patriotism. 1907, German historian F. Meinecke.
  20. Plover
    Plover 1 December 2022 12: 34
    0
    So the nationalists had to "forget" that they were Russians. Partly because of the money, partly because of the fear that they would suspect that you were helping the Russians. Yes, it was fear and money that pushed Russian speakers to extreme radicalism. The Russians have become greater Ukrainians than the Ukrainians themselves. The most terrible crimes then were committed by Russian speakers. For the same reason, Russian speakers, for the most part, were the first to go to the front as part of the national battalions.

    This is mean. Those. did the Russians go for this for money and "form", and then also make a deal with their conscience?

    Simply put, instead of the desired unification of the nation, Kyiv received an even greater rejection of the east and west. It is highly doubtful to me that even after many years this situation will change. Today we should talk about a new division of the people. Separation of the central and eastern parts of the country.

    Another "wet dream". Everything is absolutely wrong. The Russian language is rapidly disappearing not only from "official", but simple communication. I had quite a few acquaintances and friends there, I can see it very clearly. On the contrary, I would say that right now we are seeing the birth of the Ukrainian nation and a huge divide between Russians from Russia and Ukrainians and still Russians in Ukraine. Approximately the same thing happened during the Livonian War, at the end of which those who live "in Lithuania" were no longer considered Russians in the Moscow kingdom and vice versa. Blood never unites, it only divides. So much blood has already been shed in Ukraine that some kind of brotherhood should be forgotten, otherwise it will only bring even more victims.
  21. vlad2000
    vlad2000 1 December 2022 13: 03
    +1
    listen, when will this staver calm down with his stupid conclusions? what does the Russian Ukrainians with their intimidation have to do with the fact that a person either hovers in a fictional world or is an ordinary primitive propagandist. There is a war between two capitalist states for the territory and economic resources of the regirn. fights between two. in any war in the history of mankind, this is a normal event. as for ordinary mobilized. in any country, especially the Soviet one, ordinary people are completely powerless before the system of power. that in Ukraine, that in Russia, that in conditions of Zanzibar Tajik. announce mobilization. block the border and enter a prison term for evading mobilization and no one is going anywhere. neither in Ukraine nor in Russia. and by putting a person in a trench and placing behind a detachment shooting for an attempt to retreat or taking prisoner, then people will simply fight to survive. and then just from malice. people in the war mainly fight for comrades and not for Stalin and green plus, and now they are paid differently than in civilian life. And this staver comes up with intimidated Ukrainians who are afraid of Magadan. The system in any capitalist country of the former Soviet Union is arranged so that ordinary people have nowhere to go. people fled? It’s just that Russia doesn’t need full mobilization yet. And so everything will be exactly according to the Ukrainian scheme. The rich and the children of the elite will not fight, but the simple ones will all sit in the trench. you the whole philosophy of war.
  22. dnepropetrovsk
    dnepropetrovsk 1 December 2022 18: 23
    +1
    We are used to everything big. A big city, big plants and factories, etc. The settlements of Ukraine, including most cities, are small settlements in terms of population, where everyone knows each other.

    The author compares the population of the regional centers of Russia Belgorod and Kursk with Dneprodzerzhinsk and Novomoskovsk, regional centers of the Dnepropetrovsk region, you can also with Nikopol. No need to show the inhabitants of the southeast as villagers! The industry is developed and the population density is high. There are many cities with millions of people.
    The article is complete bullshit. Where did the infa on which the conclusions provided in the article come from? And then, on the basis of such conclusions, we are trying to capture the country with an army of 300000 bayonets. Let me remind you: Kherson, far from the largest city in Ukraine, was taken into the Great Patriotic War by armies with a total number of 330000. I generally keep quiet about Kharkov.
    Simply put, instead of the desired unification of the nation, Kyiv received an even greater rejection of the east and west. It is highly doubtful to me that even after many years this situation will change. Today we should talk about a new division of the people. Separation of the central and eastern parts of the country.

    Yes, damn CBO united them !!! Especially when we began to make "good will gestures" and hand over the Ukrainians who believe us in batches by leaving the territories! Ukrainians will be disappointed in us! I draw this conclusion on the basis of communication with my friends and relatives.
  23. Petr_Koldunov
    Petr_Koldunov 1 December 2022 21: 56
    -1
    They have no unity. In principle, they unanimously hate Russia and everything connected with it - but this does not make them a single nation.
  24. private person
    private person 2 December 2022 17: 10
    +1
    The Russians have become greater Ukrainians than the Ukrainians themselves.

    But why so? The answer is simple, they left Russia for the Kraine in search of a better life and, apparently, they found it and do not want to lose it. It's no secret that even in Mariupol, not all residents are happy with the arrival of the RF Armed Forces.
  25. engy
    engy 3 December 2022 12: 55
    -1
    According to the Nazi communities. The potential is taken from the skinhead movement. Before the 1st Maidan, even in Ukraine, this audience was quite, well, if not loyal, then tolerant of Russia, but on the whole it was a completely pro-Russian segment. And now a "Patriot of Ukraine" is being created, a contingent - boys from the suburbs of Kharkov, students or vocational schools, or workers in workshops: sewing, shoemaking. At first, this is infantry, but already with an ideological stuffing. These are the ideas of skins and withdrawal into pre-Christian neo-religions. Well, and aestheticization: death is a departure to Valhalla and it's beautiful. After the 14th, these charged youths are armed, these offices come out of the margins. Adults are already going there - these are grandmas, students and IT people are also pulling up. Everything, Russia for them, is at least boring and dull. This is the minimum of negative, well, plus some hellish cheating, which was not on the surface, which resulted in the willing killing of prisoners and reprisals against civilians. However, here the ontology of the same paganism - all foreigners are enemies, mixed marriages produce weak bastards. And the handiwork of this is not the dull SBU, although under their supervision, here the virtuosos were more ingenious. In fact, to bring the urban subculture to the national level - well, this is a titanic trick. There is also a comparison with the Syrian epic, when M. Musin, in one of his reports, said that some militants were convinced that they were fighting the Americans. When asked how he learned this, he answered that the mullah said. In Ukraine, too, there is a situation now when these neo-pagans are in favor of tradition, but Russia, even together with its liberals, is much closer to traditionalism than Ukraine. This is the weapon with which the USSR was destroyed. Many countries, including Russia, do not have such weapons, so the reaction is simply war.