Military Review

The myth of the Stalinist "big terror" - part of the information war against Russia

237

In Russia, October 30 celebrated the Day of Remembrance of the Victims of Political Repressions - a memorable date included in the official calendar of the year 1991. In many cities and towns on this day, mourning events will be held to commemorate those killed and injured during political repression. In Moscow, for example, already yesterday, several dozen people gathered near the Solovki stone in Lubyanka to honor the memory of the repressed. The Return of Names campaign has been regularly held there since the 2007 year: those who came in turn read out the names from the firing lists provided by the Memorial Society. The millionth numbers of the victims are called ...

But is it only the memory of these “millions” that drives the organizers of the “Return of Names” and other similar actions? It turns out that no. “If we want to overcome all the totalitarian things that exist in us and let all the free things that exist in each of us blossom, then we will see each other at the Solovetsky Stone,” such a call is posted on the official website of the Return of Names. It turns out that it is necessary to come to the Solovetsky stone not just to pay tribute to the victims of repression, but to “overcome everything totalitarian”. Reject, naturally, from our "shameful" stories, brand the "totalitarian" past. And repent, repent, repent forever ...

How can our liberals still be able to privatize anything and everything! So, the people’s grief for the innocent dead and tortured is trying to turn them into a blessing - for the “de-Stalinization” of society, the rejection of its own history. And how at the same time our liberals lie!

Take, at least, their “evidence” that millions of victims go by the victims of the “Stalinist terror”. There are, of course, no millions in the shooting lists provided by the same Memorial. “Well, so what? - Liberals parry. “After all, the exact statistics of repressions were never carried out: it was unprofitable for the authorities to fix the true scale of repressions.” But many sources, the liberals say, quite adequately paint the scale of the tragedy ...

What are these “sources” that estimate the total number of victims of the “Stalinist terror” referred to by the “de-Stalinizers”? By and large, there are only three of them. This, of course, is the Solzhenitsyn GULAG Archipelago. This, of course, the report of N.S. Khrushchev "On the cult of personality and its consequences." And the "study" of the Englishman Robert Conquest. These “sources” are the most “authoritative” for the current “de-Stalinizers”. They are not embarrassed by the fact that Solzhenitsyn's GULAG Archipelago is still a work of art, or by the fact that Khrushchev, speaking with his report before the party congress, did not publish a report on the scale of repression, prepared at his request by the then Soviet security forces. Well, the fact that the aforementioned Conquest, as it turned out, collaborated with British intelligence, is completely indecent to say that while writing his work.

And from the symbiosis of these "sources" a truly ominous picture is drawn. Solzhenitsyn writes about 110 millions of victims of repression. But even this seemed a little “perestroika” publicist Yuri Karakin: he brings the number of repressed to 120 millions! Some of the “de-Stalinizers”, however, consider these figures to be an exaggeration and tell 60-70 millions of victims. These assessments, however, also do not fit in any way with a more or less objective analysis of the demographic indicators of the USSR: there simply could not have been so many victims of the “Stalinist terror”. But what is the demographic data for our liberals, if the main thing for them is to condemn Stalin and lead us on the path of "de-Stalinization"? Here, as they say, every bit in line.

What is the true scale of repression, to accurately assess now is really very difficult. For example, the same Khrushchev, preparing his sensational report, requested data on repression from the then Minister of Internal Affairs Sergei Kruglov, USSR Prosecutor General Roman Rudenko and Justice Minister Konstantin Gorshenin. In February 1954 of the year they sent an official letter to Khrushchev, where, in particular, it was reported:

"According to the data available in the USSR Ministry of Internal Affairs, for the period from 1921 to the present, the OGPU Collegium, the NKVD troika, the Special Meeting, the Military Collegium, the courts and the military tribunals of 3 777 380 people were convicted of, including: VMN penalties - Note KM.RU) - 642 980 people, to content in camps and prisons for a period of 25 years and below - 2 369 220 people, to link and expulsion - 765 180 people.

Out of the total number of those arrested, tentatively convicted: 2 900 000 people - by the OGPU College, NKVD troika and Special Meeting; 877 000 people - courts, military tribunals, the Special Collegium and the Military Collegium.

Currently, prisoners convicted of counterrevolutionary crimes are held in camps and prisons - 467 946 people and, moreover, are in exile after serving the sentence for counterrevolutionary crimes directed by the directive of the Ministry of State Security and the USSR Prosecutor's Office (signed by Abakumov and Safonov), - 62 462 person.

The scale of repression is really huge, but there are no 120 millions, like Karjakin, or 100 millions, like Solzhenitsyn, and even 60-70 millions are out of the question. Is it because Khrushchev did not then make public these statistics? After all, starting to expose the "personality cult", it is more expedient to hang on Stalin a kind of "multimillion" atrocity - let it be not an exact list of victims, but only a kind of "estimate." And at the same time, to extort from the Soviet archives Khrushchev's personal involvement in the repressions.

Further: if we analyze the total number of victims of repression, it would be nice to clarify some important points. To begin with, the real criminals and opponents of the then authorities were surely included in the list of the repressed. What, from 1921 to February 1954 in the USSR there was no crime? Or there were no oppositionists who fought with the Soviet authorities? It means that among those almost 650 000 who were shot, and more than three million people who were behind bars or in exile, there were both real criminals and irreconcilable oppositionists.

Further: if the letter of Khrushchev’s ministers and the prosecutor counts the victims of repression from 1921, this means that for a substantial part of the crimes, it’s not Stalin who’s responsible, but the “Leninist Guard”, which immediately after the Great October Socialist Revolution unleashed terror against the White Guards , clergymen, “kulaks-peace-eaters”, etc., and so on. The Solovki stone, from which “de-Stalinisers” are being assembled today, is so named because it was brought from Solovki. And the camp there appeared long before the Stalinist "big terror" 1937-38.

Moreover, he appeared there even earlier - during the intervention and the Civil War. According to the Karelian blogger stepanov-karel.livejournal.com, as early as 3 in February 1919, the “northern” Miller-Tchaikovsky government, which was supported by “Western democracies,” adopted a resolution according to which citizens, “whose presence is harmful ... can be subject to extrajudicially arrested and expelled to the places specified in paragraph 4 of this Order. ” The said point read: “The Solovetsky monastery or one of the islands of the Solovki group ...” is appointed as a place of expulsion. As a researcher of the history of the Civil War, P.A. Golub, “the leaders of the white regime in the North — Tchaikovsky, Miller, Murushevsky and others — already in the emigrant distant, did not get tired of blackening the Bolsheviks for referring to the counterrevolutionaries to Solovki. But at the same time, they unanimously demonstrated the failure of memory, namely: they laid the road to Solovki ”.

But our liberals, who gather around the Solovetsky stone every year, are not remembered about all this. After all, they have another main goal - the “de-Stalinization” of Russia, understood as the first step towards its destruction. Of course, one can only welcome the initiative of “Memorial” to restore the names of all the repressed, but only without the accompanying calls “to overcome in oneself the totalitarian”. That is, to a total rejection of our history, in which there were not only repressions, but also the greatest achievements.
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237 comments
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  1. bask
    bask 1 November 2012 07: 21
    +49
    ,, Memorial ,, the most meager Amer organization in Russia. ((() Spoils Russia, and especially Russians like 16 years old ...)))) Under Joseph VISSARIONOVICH, such a thing sat Kolyma and sawed the forest. NOW THE VERY GENIUS IS NOT STILL! ! Corruption with which ,,,, have been fighting, for 20 years already, Would have been defeated, disappeared in 2a days .....
    1. YARY
      YARY 1 November 2012 07: 46
      +18
      The time is coming when the people themselves will assess all these "figures" from "justice" paid from the pockets of "Uncle SAM"!
      1. mar.tira
        mar.tira 1 November 2012 08: 37
        -6
        Quote: Ardent
        The time is coming when the people themselves will assess all these "figures" from "justice" paid from the pockets of "Uncle SAM"!

        And we have such an organization "Forgiveness and Memory" created by a simple teacher of the Russian language and literature Zarubina, whose parents rotted in the mass grave of the repressed. And she herself ate oat cake, mixed with frozen potatoes, being very small. So she organizes everything. trips, media coverage of this organization and the younger generation of students, oddly enough for you, the United Russia party and the governor personally. There is also a welcome letter from Russian President Vladimir Putin. With gratitude for the disinterested work in the search, and perpetuating the memory of innocent ruined people! Yes, and it is called so. That people forgave the executioners for their crimes against their own people. Yes, they themselves lived the rest of their lives in fear with this and died! But we remember our victims, and we will always remember and restore their names, and do so that There is a policy in the aforementioned organizations, there is also betrayal. And the closer to the center, the more. And the Americans would not be them if they didn’t stick their snouts here too. But everyone has different goals. I do this because, out of curiosity, in my youth, I got into some old archival documents about the repressions in the Sibirlag. And it became scary from what was happening in my land in those years, next to me, with the old people still living. I don’t know who were ruined, but hundreds of people are lying. Here are their names that are being restored! I saw how the same old, still living Latvians, Estonians, Germans, Russians, Jews (with families of young people) come by invitation. And they cry remembering those dashing years embracing together, regardless of nationality, religion, and beliefs. So you want to give them an ASSESSMENT, on behalf of the people? That's just what?
        1. YARY
          YARY 1 November 2012 09: 47
          +13
          You are a nice man, do not distort!
          Firstly, not on behalf of the people, but this is in my short commentary YOU lied for the first time
          the people themselves will give an assessment

          And the next - "The wood is chopped, the chips are flying"
          Although it would not be desirable to be such a sliver, even hammering nails you can hit yourself. And here is the construction of the greatest power!

          So dear man, your untruth.
          1. mar.tira
            mar.tira 1 November 2012 10: 18
            -8
            Quote: Ardent
            You are a nice man, do not distort!

            But where is the distortion? You consider yourself a part of the people, therefore, speak on their behalf! Well, I wish you to become one of the chips you have created. And it’s too many of you have become "lovers" of lumberjacks, poking the keyboard. And I am not nice to you, and I will never be. Because you forget the lessons of history. you of the future, with such a worldview. On the blood of its people, not a single state has survived. And so I want it !!!!! YES!!!!! By the way, do you know by chance what the most favorite weapon for executions was the executors of the sentences? How they were shot, where the corpses were then put, how they reported! If you don’t know, I’ll tell you! From the archives of the KGB, after interrogations, and the reports of those who were shooting by the way! I understand that it is not pleasant. Therefore, there are also disadvantages! But the truth cannot be hidden, it will always come out, if not hide it.
            1. Vanek
              Vanek 1 November 2012 11: 26
              +4
              Quote: mar.tira
              You consider yourself a part of the people


              And you, excuse me, are you a part of what people? Judging by the flag - of the same.
              1. mar.tira
                mar.tira 1 November 2012 12: 04
                -6
                Quote: Vanek
                And you, excuse me,

                Yes, I also consider myself a part of the people. And for some time I thought that we are one people with you. The same convictions, the same blood. But I began to make mistakes! Is it people who say one thing to their eyes, but they say another at the computer? Where is the truth? I cannot condemn, and I will defend those people who remember and condemn crimes against their people. Any government, no matter how good it is, and whatever goals it sets itself by such methods, will be condemned. In Soviet times, after the Stalinist repressions , people somehow adapted, began to develop, there was faith in the country, and hope for a better future. But the "shitcrats" did not give it. It seems that they showed people what it is, but no! Now the Stalinists of all stripes have climbed, pulling young people back into blood, into fear. What do you think that under the Stalinist regime there was no elite? Now instill Stalinism, the blood of ordinary people will be shed again, And half of the oligarchs will snatch abroad, and half will be repainted in Stalinists, Leninists. And again expropriation will take place, but what? We already have no enterprises, no middle class! And the bourgeoisie have their main capital abroad. They remember those times better than we do, and therefore are ready for them! So we need to remember what such methods can lead to. These methods cannot take away stolen wealth. countries, do not be mistaken! We must slowly, without frightening! Even a frog can be boiled alive by slowly heating the water!
                1. dmb
                  dmb 1 November 2012 14: 38
                  +13
                  Let me interfere with your discussion. It seems to me that, unlike a group of gentlemen such as the 8th company, you sincerely believe in what you write, but unlike, say, Mr. Covenant, you don’t think that under tsarism the people were crazy about happiness. Well, you can't be a liberal. worshipers of absolute monarchy. This is only Svanidze and others like him succeed. I may repeat myself, but with rare exceptions, everyone thinks that repression is bad. But was it possible to do without them in the 30s? Hardly. Yes, and in the repressed write all indiscriminately. I had to read cases in 30 sheets. I will cite just one example. The former policeman demanded to rehabilitate him, because, in his opinion, he did nothing. He only made sure that the hostages did not run away from the place of execution, and then he transported their clothes to the warehouse, and a gold piece was soldered to him. For what? But there were quite a few of them both before and after the war. Soviet society was certainly not ideal and made mistakes, and sometimes crimes, but do not forget, it followed an unknown path. You write us all as admirers of "bloody satraps and executioners". Don't you think that in this case you are no different from those very "satraps" who deprive people of the right to an opinion different from yours? Well, and frankly, your passage about the frog is not clear. Allegories are a good thing, but how do you imagine it in reality. Describe the technique, if possible?
                  1. Denzel13
                    Denzel13 1 November 2012 16: 14
                    +2
                    DMB - 100% + another 100% per frog. And then I wondered what kind of industry mar.tira was, judging by his post above. The only incomprehensible thing is how can this be combined with the fight against animal cruelty?
                2. 11Goor11
                  11Goor11 1 November 2012 17: 30
                  +9
                  mar.tira
                  Pray now Stalinism, the blood of ordinary people will be shed again

                  When Stalin gained full power, repression against the common people ceased. The repressions came to the head of the Trotskyists, if you do not know, the purges of the party from people who started a bloody bath for the people began.
                  Simply because the "goyim" in the eyes of those "revolutionaries" had no value at all.
                  1. crazyrom
                    crazyrom 2 November 2012 00: 01
                    +7
                    Who does not consider Stalin the greatest Russian, read "Stalin: Remember Together" by N.V. Starikov as well as "Distant Bomber ..." Golovanov. Very good works, they clearly and clearly tell who Stalin really was.
                  2. Taratut
                    Taratut 2 November 2012 09: 59
                    -5
                    Quote: 11Goor11
                    When Stalin gained full power, repression against the common people ceased

                    Ha ha ha Since what year do you think he received power?
                    Quite the contrary, the repression has begun.

                    Quote: 11Goor11
                    The repressions turned on the head of the Trotskyists

                    The version of certain conspiracies does not receive documentary evidence. And for Trotskyism people were often repressed, who had never even heard the name of Trotsky. For example, Polish besiegers.

                    The scale of the repression is really enormous, but not a single 120 million, like Karjakin’s, or 100 million, like Solzhenitsyn’s, or even 60-70 million.
                    Well that's true.
                    However, a crime does not stop being a crime.
                    And who should be considered a victim of repression? It's not only the shot and convicted. And their family members? And how many are evicted, malnourished, and slave labor is practically for food.
                    1. Rink
                      Rink 3 November 2012 14: 58
                      +3
                      Quote: Taratut
                      ..... The scale of the repressions is really huge, but about 120 million, like Karjakin’s, or 100 million, like Solzhenitsyn’s, and even 60-70 million are out of the question.
                      Well that's true.
                      However, a crime does not stop being a crime. ......

                      On the basis of what do you recognize the immense scale of repression as true?
                      What are the facts and arguments for that besides the fact that "everyone already knows this"?
                      The accusation of crimes needs proof, which the works of art by the Solzhenitsyn and even the "works of scientists" are not. Documents and testimonies serve as evidence, and to prove the massiveness of the repressions of evidence, a lot is also needed. Examples on one or two biographies do not roll here - they could be both real "enemies of the people", using the language of that time, or simple errors of the judicial system, which are always and everywhere (including in the "civilized" West) ...

                      The article under discussion (if you read it carefully) just raises the question of the evidence base of the well-known version of the atrocities of the Stalinist regime. It turns out that if you do not read the liberal propaganda literature (the military weapons of the Western information war against us), but turn to real documents, the myth of the cannibalistic nature of Stalin and his regime vanishes like smoke.

                      Here is an example of another interesting article about that time, which, although it does not answer all the questions, but only raises the edges of the curtain that hides the real truth about our history: http://www.novdelo.ru/index.php?nav=nnews&viewart=60331
                      Read, I think you will not regret it ..
                      It provides a direction for reflection.
                      1. Rink
                        Rink 3 November 2012 15: 02
                        +5
                        PS And Solzhenitsyn ... well, Alexander Isaevich is an interesting and ambiguous personality. He discovered his anti-Soviet views during the time of the Great Patriotic War: he was arrested in February 1945 for letters to a friend with attacks on Stalin and the Soviet system.
                        There is some logical inconsistency, a misunderstanding: imagine the year 1945, February. Before the Victory - nothing at all, the Soviet army rampantly smashes the enemy on its territory, and it is already clear that they survived and the fascist reptile was short-lived. A wave of enthusiasm in the Soviet people against the backdrop of victorious reports of victories on all fronts, joy and anticipation of the end of the Great War, peaceful life .. And the captain of artillery Solzhenitsyn shares his hatred for the Supreme Commander of his army.
                        Is it strange? but there are military operations and military laws around ... And the army is not Makhnovist, the situation does not favor democratic liberties - if you served, then you know that any army is not built on electoral-democratic principles. Discussion of the actions of the higher command is prohibited by the Charter, and even in combat conditions and at all .... (And if our artilleryman was damaged by the mind for an hour, can there be any contusion? Or psychological trauma in a person of fine mental organization ...)

                        Next - the usual fate of a political prisoner, who fell under the overwhelming state machine. (And any state - there is an instrument of suppression, if you remember). Although they could have been shot under the laws of wartime, this was done in both the French and English armies during World War I, for example. (America then practically had no regular army).
                        But there are moments ...
                        Although Solzhenitsyn was long drawn to pee, they began to publish it only after the death of Stalin at the command of Khrushchev. Khrushchev even nominated him for the Lenin Prize in Literature for 1964, but he did not receive any awards (even under Secretary General Khrushchev they didn’t give !!! the old man went across!), And after the release of Nikitka from Solzhenitsyn's posts, they stopped printing at all. They began to prosecute for libel, but the truth was left free, and not hidden.

                        It turns out that Stalin's "accuser" Khrushchev (and they say his murderer too) needed Solzhenitsyn's dissident accusatory novels! He needed "proof" of his concoction, his "discovery" of the personality cult and the excesses of the party, which he hung on a dead man at the 20th congress - what a dead demand? but the current party members are completely cleansed!

                        But the demand for Solzhenitsyn's revelations remained after the removal of Khrushchev, guess who needed such "revelations"? novels "In the First Circle" (1968) and "Cancer Ward" (1968 ... 1969) get to the West and go there without the consent of the author. Is it strange? anyone who remembers those times knows just by chance that any manuscripts could not get to the West. There was no Internet, and you had to try hard to transfer something there. Solzhenitsyn, however, refused to bear responsibility for the publication of his works abroad and stated that the authorities had facilitated the removal of manuscripts from the country so that there was a pretext for his arrest.
                        But it is just ridiculous and gives off a slight paranoia. The authorities could easily find a reason easier, not taking out the dirty linen from the hut and not inflating the scandal to the international level. That is, if it were power, it would have acted differently. And it was necessary for those who subsequently gave him the Nobel Prize in literature, who made him a mediocre writer (let's say honestly, Solzhenitsyn’s literary talent does not reach Gogol, the horror stories were much better) for a fighter with totalitarianism and communist infection ... The West still uses this tool to the full: look, to whom they present the Peace Prize? as they say, comments are superfluous ...

                        As they say, do you want to better understand the position of the author? read his biography - it can clarify many puzzles.
                      2. Strategia
                        Strategia 6 November 2012 13: 42
                        +2
                        Less than a year ago, I first read The Gulag Archipelago, and indeed Solzhenitsyn in general. I expected much more. It turned out to be a splash of poisonous hatred for the Russians themselves. And even about the "one hundred million victims" according to the inmates in general horror. And yet, judging by the charges brought against Solzhenitsyn, he should have been slapped on the way to Moscow "while trying to escape." And in general, why were they taken? There is something incomprehensible here, because, as follows from the same book (the same stories of inmates), they were shot on the spot for less ...
                      3. pioneer
                        pioneer 7 November 2012 18: 14
                        0
                        I would advise you to read carefully how he was interrogated. No scuffle, no torture, no extortion of confessions. And in gratitude, slops on the country that grew, learned. Purely J AND D O V S K A I Hochma. To do good, so that everyone around would feel bad.
                    2. pioneer
                      pioneer 7 November 2012 18: 07
                      -1
                      My dear friend, but look how many were in the United States at that time. And then start shouting about crimes Read the material of the party conferences and congresses of those times, maybe something will reach your consciousness. A] slave labor practically for food - this is already a question for Khrushchev. Under "bad" Stalin, an engineer received 1,5 times more than a worker, a teacher received a little less than an engineer, and colossal money was spent on education and medicine. All the numbers have long been released. And under your beloved Putin and Medvedev, money for education and medicine is decreasing every year. Read, analyze and think with your own head, not someone else's.
                3. Vlaleks48
                  Vlaleks48 1 November 2012 18: 52
                  +11
                  I cannot justify the death of innocent people with "chips and cogs", but I wanted to remind the gentlemen, remember who you are now, who your parents were, who were your grandfathers and great-grandfathers! Few people know their roots. But before 1917 the people had faith, there was a state, an army and so on, so on!
                  But the hegemon came and everything went to dust!
                  Now think about who shot his compatriots, who wrote denunciations, who knocked on a neighbor and only from behind a room in a communal apartment wished him dead.
                  The October coup shook and raised so much shit from the bottom of the Russian state that it was enough for our life today! From the outskirts of Russia, dispossessed "oppressed" small peoples poured into the central part and into large cities for commissars, KGB and other bread.
                  And who needs an enlightened Orthodox people, but he is their enemy, infidels, infidels! Stalin cleaned out the Augean stables of the Leninist "guagdia" as best he could, but he was removed and everything from the "maize" Nikita the country went to its peak and the result we are experiencing today!
                  Take an interest in the national composition of the Cheka, OGPU, NKVD before and after the People's Commissariat, before and after, and it will immediately become clear "who is dancing whom"!

                4. pavlo
                  pavlo 1 November 2012 19: 04
                  +8
                  I advise you to read Igor Pykhalov, the Great Obolganaya War, for which Stalin evicted the peoples there, both about Chechens and about Estonians and about Latvians, etc. -was for what, but in my opinion it was very soft he treated them! http://stalinism.narod.ru/docs/repress/narod.htm
                  1. Taratut
                    Taratut 2 November 2012 10: 06
                    -5
                    Quote: pavlo
                    I advise you to read Igor Pykhalov-Great Great War

                    Better not. It’s too painful for a comrade to customize the solution of the puzzle to the answer. What is only the passage about the Finnish Nazism - they have, you see, the symbol of the Air Force - the swastika. Only now, the author did not mention that this symbol since 1918, when the Nazis were not in sight.
                    Or his reasoning about repression in the army. A man seriously believes that several thousand repressed in the army are few.
                    Let's repress a couple of hundred of the best Wehrmacht generals and see how much less effective it becomes.

                    Quote: pavlo
                    For which Stalin deported the peoples there and about the Chechens and about Estonians and about Latvians, etc. -for what, but in my opinion it was very soft he treated them

                    You would be shy. Collective liability is in principle anti-legal. After all, honest people - front-line soldiers, their families ... suffered too.
                    1. brr77
                      brr77 3 November 2012 11: 06
                      +1
                      Mr. Taratut is incomprehensible to me, you have one position to charm, but it would be interesting to put you in the place of Stalin and see what kind of porridge you would make up ...
                    2. Strategia
                      Strategia 7 November 2012 15: 07
                      0
                      At 200000 officers and 150000 warrant officers were slashed, but they say that the combat effectiveness of the army has increased!
                    3. pioneer
                      pioneer 7 November 2012 18: 22
                      0
                      At the end of the war, Adolf Aloisoich was very, very envious of Comrade Stalin for the fact that before the war I.V. Stalin was able to clear the army of the fifth column. But unfortunately not completely cleared. Many innocent officers and generals suffered, but many were returned to duty. So we will not talk about what we do not know.
                  2. d.gksueyjd
                    d.gksueyjd 3 November 2012 15: 28
                    +1
                    Yes it was for what !! It's a shame of course that the families of the Red Army soldiers who died for their homeland fell into this meat grinder, but almost 70 years later we have missing people in the Chechen war.
                5. nickname 1 and 2
                  nickname 1 and 2 7 November 2012 11: 59
                  0
                  mar.tira,
                  Let me?
                  I do not consider it possible to condemn or otherwise, and this is why: we do not have accurate information. If we take the entire active part of the people, then its part can be roughly divided into three main parts: convinced supporters, convinced opponents and hesitant! Those agitation, which the people are subjected to from various forces, succeed in influencing this third part of the people to a greater extent, i.e. hesitant! And if, the situation was reversed i.e. revolutions, coups, etc. then, it means that it was possible to lure to the other side those same ones, but the truth remained outside the "board" or beyond the spectrum of visibility! Or - we still don't know her! A ban is given to the positive or vice versa! Truth is being substituted for falsehood! But no one knows the final, complete truth !!! So why break spears ??? We do not know the TRUTH !!! fool
                  We are convinced of something but, on not accurate and not final, incomplete facts !!! Why rest against the horn ??? stop
                  1. pioneer
                    pioneer 7 November 2012 18: 38
                    0
                    Recently, a study was conducted among the youth of Russia on the subject of "Medvedev-Putin" de-Stalinization. The result was shocking for this public. It turned out that the majority of young people respect that era and JV Stalin. Comparison of modern kings and personality turns out to be in favor of PERSONALITIES.
            2. YARY
              YARY 1 November 2012 11: 50
              +7
              Once again I quote my
              the people themselves will give an assessment


              now your
              Quote: mar.tira
              on behalf of the people


              I speak on my own behalf and everyone will say - on my own behalf and in the amount of what is said by everyone, an assessment of the people will be born
              Well, as a rule, liberals turn to individuals in a dispute, or have I touched on the "live"?
            3. Denzel13
              Denzel13 1 November 2012 15: 54
              +4
              mar.tira
              it hurts a lot of you have become "lovers" of lumberjacks, poking the keyboard

              Is this not a case of megalomania?
              So you are a "professional" and not a "lumberjack"?
              It is necessary to understand everything, except those in "Forgiveness and Remembrance", the forest is being felled on the vast expanses of our country?
              And in which industry are you professional?
              1. Yugan
                Yugan 5 November 2012 02: 31
                +1
                According to the frogs, he is an expert, judging by the post.
            4. atomic
              atomic 1 November 2012 16: 04
              +3
              You just won’t find the truth in Russia, but the truth from all the cracks is missing. The truth, like the truth, is one, but each has its own.
            5. Konrad
              Konrad 1 November 2012 19: 33
              -2
              Quote: mar.tira
              . So you have no future with such a worldview

              And they don’t have a CONSCIENCE !!!
        2. predator.2
          predator.2 1 November 2012 09: 55
          +25
          The most accurate assessment of Stalin was given by W. Churchill " Stalin made the greatest impression on us. He possessed a deep, devoid of any panic, logically meaningful wisdom. He was an invincible master to find in difficult moments the way out of the most hopeless situation. In addition, Stalin at the most critical moments, as well as during the moments of triumph, was equally restrained and never succumbed to illusions. He was an unusually complex person. He created and subjugated a vast empire. This was a man who destroyed his enemy with his own enemy. Stalin was the greatest, unparalleled dictator in the world, who accepted Russia with a plow and left it with nuclear weapons. Well, history, people don’t forget such people. ”
          1. Taratut
            Taratut 2 November 2012 10: 10
            -1
            I'm already tired of writing that this "Churchill speech" is a forgery. For the first time "quoted" in Nina Andreeva's article "I Can't Give Up My Principles." If anyone doubts, I will give a full account of this nonsense.
        3. Denzel13
          Denzel13 1 November 2012 15: 45
          +7
          mar.tira, do not try to cause a "stingy tear" about the fact that the teacher (that is, a person from the people) did not finish eating, etc. - it was like that for the whole country at that time. My parents lived like this when they were young, it was hard for almost every family. Only there is one oddity - of all my relatives, no one was repressed (and according to the theory of probability, they should have been). For some reason, those relatives who ended up in the grave died a natural death or died fighting the Wehrmacht. The author writes correctly - there were no seven-digit numbers of the dead. If almost every family in the former USSR can say that someone died in the war (and the total number of losses should be taken into account), then not every family (for example, I know only one of my friends) can say that someone died as a result of repression.
          And in general, what is "repression"? It would be more correct to formulate this as a punishment for violation of the legislation in force at that time. For example, how many prisoners are there in the US now? 2085620 people are the most in the world. In China - 1,5 million. In Russia - 870 thousand (and in 1956 - 468 thousand) Are they all repressed? So this is the number of convicts and those serving sentences at the moment, and there the number of convicts from 1921 to 1956 is 3,78 million. Where does the repression take place?
          1. sapulid
            sapulid 1 November 2012 20: 03
            -3
            My grandfather, having fought from Brest to Berlin, was shot at the denunciation of the political instructor because he did not indicate his nationality as dumb. You think there are few of these?
            How many were convicted of collecting spikelets from already harvested fields? They tried to save the children from starvation, for the state raked everything under the net. Collective farmers could not leave due to lack of passports ...
            You can give a bunch of examples.
            They got the "Stalinists". Someone would repress you yourself ...
            1. Konrad
              Konrad 1 November 2012 22: 14
              -1
              Quote: sapulid
              They got the "Stalinists".

              Using their verbiage style, I came up with a new name - STALIRAS!
        4. Evil Tatar
          Evil Tatar 6 November 2012 07: 58
          +3
          Quote: mar.tira
          And we have such an organization "Forgiveness and Memory" created by a simple teacher of the Russian language and literature Zarubina, whose parents rotted in the mass grave of the repressed. And she herself ate oat cake, mixed with frozen potatoes, being very small.

          And I am not a member of any such organization, whether we have a similar one or not, I don’t want to know, because I live in the Far East, where my ancestors from the beginning of the tsarist migration of peoples have been completely exhausted ...
          Mom (72 g.) Tirelessly told me how she got frozen potatoes with her brothers and sisters and they ate it, and not only ...
          How the wounds and wounds did not heal for a long time, and worms started in them ...
          Like they were running barefoot through the frost to school because there was nothing to buy shoes for ...
          As a father (my grandfather), returning from the war, suffered from wounds for a long time, drank bitter, and soon died ...
          As a mother (grandmother), having 8 minor children, on the meager pension of her mother with many children, she brought up as best she could and waited for grandchildren and then great-grandchildren ...
          In those days, probably more than 90% of the population of Siberia and the Far East, and indeed of the country, could tell such a thing ...
          Of course, it was hard to endure additional hardships, being in the "stages", in the zone, hard labor, etc., in isolation from the more or less tolerable settled conditions with the family, but from today, all that life can be covered as repression of that existence, before the current iPhone age ...
          And I will add from my comments on another site in the topic "Day of National Unity" -
          1. Troubles - it is also troubles in Africa, but the classic once said: - there is nothing worse than the Russian rebellion, meaningless and merciless ... (A.S. Pushkin)
          Without knowing, one cannot zealously criticize or praise this or that action of history - one must understand, humble oneself and prepare oneself for such ...
          Indeed, in praising, you have every chance of falling first at the hands of the connivance infuriated by your previous events and the demagoguery defecated by you ...
          On the contrary, one cannot condemn, lament, and regret, for the hardships, hardships, wounds, and illnesses for which you reproach and reproach the contemporaries of your grandfathers today were their established way of life, often a happy time, despite early gray hair, wounds, and untimely death .. .
          Your ancestors, who carried these deprivations together with the people, with the Motherland, in the name of common or only their own and no one else's ideals, would be the first to throw a stone at you, regardless of kinship, ("I gave birth to you, I will kill you" - Taras Bulba .), because the speech about pity for the "poor" ancestors and the flawedness of their existence is a funny assessment of the future to an unfamiliar past ...

          Your grandchildren will surely give their assessment of your TODAY, but if you were destined to hear this assessment, you most likely would have been outraged by the fact that such evaluations turned your life in the eyes of the descendants with its happiness, emotions, experiences , in ASHES, into nobody unnecessary and terrible historical formality.
          1. Evil Tatar
            Evil Tatar 6 November 2012 08: 25
            +2
            Extension
            2. I believe that the truly exorbitant victims of the Great History of Russia of the 20th century were not in vain, but it is worth recognizing that almost immediately after the end of the Second World War, heroes - the savior of mankind began to fade from the history of the first world, and later the history of the country of the liberator - the USSR, which took upon itself the brunt of the loss that led to victory ...
            And other sufferers are exalted, sometimes undeservedly. T.S. from the domestic (domestic) understanding of the processes within the country, of which they became participants, the injured, some completely undeservedly, were elevated to martyrs of conscience, whom their fellow citizens were purportedly unconsciously purportingly ...

            What is happening today, screaming about all the terrible repressions of that time, as well as copying the German-Italian version of fascism (neo-fascism / neo-Nazism), many films about zomboyaschik and other media about many intra-civil events and wars over the period of the 19-20 centuries, hypertrophy or, more precisely, resuscitation of patriotism, especially of young people, personally tells me that the trouble is not far off ... They are trying to prepare us for testing. But many of us stubbornly resist ...
            These will be mainly two internal antipodes within the people, the two sides of the confrontation and the one which will be larger, will direct the vector of development of Russia in its direction ...
            In other words, patriots and anti-patriots.
            The anti-patriots, in my understanding, are those who have absorbed the alien and educate their offspring on the ideals of Western civilization, building themselves into it along with their present and future.
            Many processes within our society go in parallel ...
            The people of our country are trying to split by any means - national discord, social stratification, political intrigues, foreign policy games - all this flows from the same sources that for centuries have tried to subjugate the vast lands together with the people lying to the east of the "progressive "Europe.
            From those times to the present, replacing the concepts of morality, the foundations of Christianity, hostile forces have been propagating the opposite of reality, trying to re-educate everything and everything under its vile laws of being.
            But if you delve into these processes on purpose, if only for your general education to read the historical excerpts and quotes of contemporaries actually significant for ours today, then everything turbid in the head takes on the correct shape, and the zombie slogans disappear by themselves, the essence remains - that the main struggle is still far from over, that many terrible events of the past are a series of preludes to something basic, and God grant the final ...
            1. Val_y
              Val_y 7 November 2012 16: 07
              +2
              I agree with you, unfortunately quite often they succeed. Let us recall recent history, even against the will of the people (the first referendum on the preservation of the USSR, in which the majority voted for its preservation), the USSR was destroyed by the liberals and derocrats, and continue to operate. Instead of the concepts of Motherland, Duty, Fatherland, Honor, the concepts of "bucks" were introduced. And patriotism was equated with "tying up interethnic hatred." It is a pity, but as they say in Odessa, “We will see it anyway,” because the Slavs are proud, courageous and strong people who will digest this attack. laughing I think so. And about life in those days, we have the right to discuss since there were still witnesses of that era and not disguised (although at all times they are) but real, with whom you can still talk about it. The main thing is not to be late. crying
        5. Strategia
          Strategia 6 November 2012 11: 04
          +2
          1. You write everything well, but only on condition that all the repressed are absolutely innocent. Then yes, Stalin is "an executioner and a satrap". And if not?..
          2. The article and posts say that it is impossible to establish the scale of repression. The scale can just be established (that is, thousands, tens of thousands, hundreds of thousands, millions, tens of millions, hundreds of millions ...), but the exact NUMBER is really difficult to establish. In our country, even the All-Russian census cannot establish the exact number of inhabitants.
          3. Regarding the "liberals", "edrosov" and the "state department": it turns out that if the "liberals" scold the Stalinists, then it is on the money of the "state department", and if the "edros" headed by Medvedev, then it is on Russian money. In this case, the first smells bad, and the second smells sweet. And in my opinion, those that others destroy Russian history and the historical memory of the people, that is, they do one thing. We can assume that the money for this comes from one wallet ...
          4. It is imperative to restore the names of all those who disappeared during the "years of repression"! But only to restore and rehabilitate all convicts OPEN: to return HONEST names to HONEST people, to call CRIMINALS CRIMINALS, that is, to separate the GUILTY from the INnocent and recognize the innocent victims of repression.
          5. Disclose the TRUE figures of the victims (convicts) based on DOCUMENTED evidence.
          6. Name the names of those SPECIFIC people (investigators, members of triples, etc.) who knowingly, that is, CONFIDENTIALLY knowing the innocence of the convicted, fabricated cases, signed a guilty verdict. They are the executioners! At the same time, do not forget the scammers who lied to innocent people!
          7. Not to blame everything on Stalin, but to determine the degree of crime, if not every employee, then at least every responsible employee of the NKVD, etc., starting with the level of the investigator, that is, those who were OBLIGED to prove or establish the guilt of the victim. Remember the words of Asmolov's song "Caution, the doors are closing ...": "... that from the very first days you served not the Father of Nations and not Beria, but the cult of YOUR PERSONAL VILLAGE!"
          If you do not observe such honesty and impartiality, then we simply swing the pendulum of injustice in the other direction! And then he will come back again ...
          1. Evil Tatar
            Evil Tatar 6 November 2012 16: 50
            +1
            Quote: Strategia
            If you do not observe such honesty and impartiality, then we simply swing the pendulum of injustice in the other direction! And then he will come back again ...

            No. 7 is quite possible to fulfill, but everything else is the masochism of pure water ...
            Even today, those who lived in the era of the collapse of the USSR are completely guilty (well, except for the children of course) ...
            And what about those ancient times for us?
            Although the bulk of the elderly population, of those who are still alive today, perceives their existence under Stalin, is not at all like a nightmare ...
            Let us recall the great artists of the USSR, singers, artists and others who spent time in the camps, and when they returned to freedom they worked and worked, by the way, not for fear, but in the name and for the good of the Motherland ...
            Apparently somewhere believing that there was still some kind of fault, or none at all, but then the circumstances under which the sentence was received did not exclude the sentence, if not fair, then acceptable ... How do we know?
            Today, for example, Udaltsov or embezzlers, or some scammers, or other quiet villains, also consider themselves innocent victims, and in thirty years they can count on rehabilitation ...
            Like a classic ...
            Eh, Pussy, we are one family, you are also affected.
            You are also injured, which means Russified.
            - mine - unknown fallenYours - innocently sat.

            I’m still interested: - and those who served, and others who didn’t return from zones and links, how much more unfortunate than those who died for their homeland in battle, went missing, and most importantly we are talking about those who still lived on a meager pension WWII veterans?
            You can consider the whole country repressed for one reason or another, all of our ancestors had a gloomy, in our opinion, present ...
            And who will pay the bills for the 90s? Our descendants?
            A brother and godfather will be in the forefront of the victims of Putin))))))))))))))))
            Cool ..............................
            1. Strategia
              Strategia 6 November 2012 17: 42
              0
              If without emotion, then something can be established:
              1. The existence of an article for a crime in law.
              2. The presence of objective evidence of guilt of the convict on the basis of the case in accordance with the alleged article.
              3. Evidence of guilt on the materials of the case.
              And paragraph 5 of the previous post, is it not possible to fulfill almost in full?
              I found the place and circumstances of my grandfather who died in 1942 at the Memorial thanks to the discovery and systematization of archival documents on the war. I think that on repression, too, everything is in the archives. It would be a desire. Then point 2 will be executed automatically. Point 3 does not require execution, and point 1 is also executed automatically. In general, once again, there would be a desire!
        6. nickname 1 and 2
          nickname 1 and 2 7 November 2012 11: 09
          0
          mar.tira,
          Quote: mar.tira
          I don’t know about millions of ruined people, but hundreds of people are lying.

          So it is so! However, where were the leaders, where was the KGB - why were they allowed to destroy the USSR? Why was such a DEZ allowed? Why did they allow such a "skew" in the economy?
          Take tsarist Russia. Why did they make a revolution?
          Present time. How, WHO - calculated, gave a scientific and economic
          justification for another development of the country in the present conditions ??? And why are upstarts allowed to bother? Why is it allowed to rock a boat?
          It’s already a no brainer that only a quiet measured work of the people will give the country economic growth.
          Here is B. Abama speaking SPEECHES of a "communist" orientation! That the US will build communism? Is it so? You can chat whatever you want.
          Chatting does not work, the back does not hurt! And the language without bones, fatigue does not know.
        7. pioneer
          pioneer 7 November 2012 17: 46
          0
          Do not confuse God's gift with fried eggs.
      2. S_mirnov
        S_mirnov 1 November 2012 09: 50
        +9
        The general tone of the article is correct, but not without a BUT! The article talks about some faceless "liberals" who distort our history and about Uncle Sam from America. So let's call these liberals by their proper names, what for to be sprayed on mythical something - "heroes" must be known by sight!
        Medvedev
        http://www.inosmi.ru/social/20091031/156466354.html
        http://badnews.org.ru/news/medvedev_o_staline/2010-05-10-1066
        GDP
        http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fAuCc06AaBU&feature=related

        And here is a little truth for comparison with the statement of our figures
        http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oI-sEhX4ygQ&feature=related
        http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nXOT9Kmtx68
    2. ZAVET
      ZAVET 1 November 2012 11: 14
      -15
      Basil
      Ivan
      Peter
      Alexey
      These are the names of my grandfather’s starved brothers (then small children). Let me remind you that the famine was caused by the fact that the Bolsheviks took all food supplies and grain from the peasants. When my great-grandfather, who was unable to watch his children die of hunger, went to work in the city, he was captured by the Bolshevik scum and sent to the camp (then serfdom was in effect, it was impossible to leave his collective farm). All this was in the thirties. The peasants worked for Bolda, dying of hunger.
      THIS IS NOT TERROR - THIS IS A GENOCIDE OF THE RUSSIAN POPULATION
      It's time to admit it OFFICIALLY.
      The instigators of the genocide are foreign Bolsheviks, almost all Jews.

      Special thanks to comrade the Jewish Son (named after cargo. Dzhugashvili) nicknamed Stalin.
      1. Astartes
        Astartes 1 November 2012 12: 38
        0
        A clear enemy.
      2. S_mirnov
        S_mirnov 1 November 2012 13: 05
        +2
        Testament, eat more pills! Go to the sanatorium, walk more in the fresh air. If you certainly have enough money and time for this in the conditions of modern capitalism.
        1. atomic
          atomic 1 November 2012 16: 15
          +2
          S_mirnov, subtle humor.
          1. ZAVET
            ZAVET 1 November 2012 16: 36
            -9
            Of course I tell them about the RUSSIAN GENOCIDE by the example of my family, and these people humor me.

            Question are you geeks or foreigners? What kind of tribe?
            1. ZAVET
              ZAVET 1 November 2012 16: 53
              -4
              By the way, they didn’t think where this tyrant veneration comes from?

              This is a simple psychological phenomenon, in a nutshell, a strong fear in weak individuals, the so-called "scum" develops into adoration. It is on the scummers (from the word bottom) that the power of a single individual is held.

              Judging by the posts, the scammers did not and will not translate.
              1. Denzel13
                Denzel13 1 November 2012 17: 21
                -1
                Oh, "blue blood" began to play in some.
                1. d.gksueyjd
                  d.gksueyjd 3 November 2012 15: 38
                  +2
                  Quote: Denzel13
                  Oh, "blue blood" began to play in some.

                  No, what a blue "from rags to riches"
                2. Yugan
                  Yugan 5 November 2012 02: 43
                  0
                  This is not blue blood, more like a delusional state.
            2. Vanek
              Vanek 1 November 2012 18: 22
              +3
              Covenant

              I've read your comments on this thread. And you know? Yes, you can agree that it was "THIS IS NOT TERROR .............", you can think about something, you can talk about something, etc. And you can also find in humor what you should pay attention to, but here is yours:

              - Question are you geeks or foreigners? What kind of tribe?

              ........ eeeem ...... Well, in general, not really somehow you just got this comment.

              Regards, Ivan.
              1. NUT
                NUT 1 November 2012 20: 34
                0
                "This tribe has no homeland and wherever it comes, it tries to destroy the feeling of patriotism, corrupting human minds ...
                Russia was strong and strong in spirit until it was shaken by the Jews; Jews are destroying Russia, they have shattered its foundations of patriotism ... "

                Mobuchum Okuma Shigenbu (1898-1916) Prime Minister of Japan
                Pay attention, Vanya, these, with whom we don’t drink, write in their profile on this site their native city, the land that wears them, the air that they breathe, they write not with a capital, but with a capital letter ...
                "The worldwide conspiracy to overthrow culture and remake society on the basis of stopping progress, envious anger and inconceivable equality continued to grow continuously ...
                ... and finally now this gang of unusual personalities, scum of big cities in Europe and America, grabbed the Russian people by the hair and holds in their hands, in fact, becoming the undivided master of a huge empire ... "

                WINSTON CHURCHILL (1874 - 1965) Prime Minister of Great Britain. From a speech in the House of Representatives on November 5, 1919
            3. brr77
              brr77 3 November 2012 11: 11
              +1
              ZAVET, And what kind of tribe are you?
            4. d.gksueyjd
              d.gksueyjd 3 November 2012 15: 36
              +2
              We are citizens of our country, who, thanks to people like you, are forced to live in what we now live, am
      3. sq
        sq 1 November 2012 15: 00
        +13
        Thanks should be said not to Stalin, but to those envious cattle who knocked on a neighbor who had a bigger shirt, the more cunning ... who cut the cattle before collectivization, as well as that lousy intelligentsia for which any power is bad and they like that.
        I understand the anger of those whose relatives have suffered by agreement, innocently, for working more and earning better. One grandfather himself was almost sent to the camps, while the other stayed there. But the question is that often the greatest fuss is raised by those who received what they deserved then, knowingly say: "Who shouts loudest -" Stop the thief! "
        1. ZAVET
          ZAVET 1 November 2012 16: 40
          -2
          My family was destroyed, by the way, on the maternal side, great-grandmother and great-grandfather died of starvation, not because of evil spirits, AND THEY SIMPLY DESTROYED, STARED HUNGER, almost killed the whole village, like most villages in the Volga region
          This is the GENOCIDE - the targeted killing of OUR KIND.
          1. sq
            sq 1 November 2012 17: 07
            +8
            I will not argue, the commies came to us only at 39, and then, according to the elderly, the Red Army men walked in bast shoes (?), And the peasants who came out to meet were entirely in boots. And so Belarus in the 20s was given away to both Poles and Zhamoit and they cut a piece for themselves.
            If we all remember all our grievances, we can reach the level of Somalia, which is VERY MUCH to please our enemies.
            1. Was mammoth
              Was mammoth 1 November 2012 18: 55
              +1
              Quote: kvm
              the Red Army went in bast shoes (?)


              Are you mistaken? Maybe in the windings?
              1. sq
                sq 2 November 2012 08: 59
                +1
                So I say - according to the old people - the grandfather told.
            2. Konrad
              Konrad 1 November 2012 19: 41
              -2
              Quote: kvm
              If we all remember all the insults

              Who does not remember the past, has no future!
              1. sq
                sq 2 November 2012 09: 00
                0
                It is necessary to remember everything, both good and bad, it is not necessary to remember and stick out.
          2. S_mirnov
            S_mirnov 3 November 2012 17: 18
            +2
            I do not agree with you, the "genocide" is happening now:
            http://news.rambler.ru/16049554/
            http://demotivation.me/9s720o94ehprpic.html
            http://demotivation.me/kou077qskuqzpic.htm
            and there is no war, and even on the contrary, everyone is "friends" with us in their own way.
            And I am very grateful to the Soviet authorities for arming the country before the Great Patriotic War, conducting industrialization, destroying the fifth column and thanks to this, my two grandfathers survived fighting in this war, gave life to my parents and I got a chance to be born and got Free higher education and Free medical care.
            As for the "victims of the Stalinist genocide", of course, a big deal is not complete without sacrifices, but in Soviet ideology, personal sacrifice for the sake of a better future for their children and the country as a whole was considered the norm, now it is difficult for a generation brought up on the values ​​of subhumans to understand.
      4. Val_y
        Val_y 7 November 2012 16: 25
        0
        You know, our former president, beekeeper Yushchenko, spoke about the "genocide of the Ukrainian people", even instructed monuments, in my opinion, even the UN called for recognizing the famine as a "Holodomor". And I absolutely agree about the instigators, and they have not gone anywhere. If the owner of something ..... definitely not Russian (Ukrainian, Belarusian), the director of something, the same picture. So we draw conclusions gentlemen.
    3. Sasha 19871987
      Sasha 19871987 1 November 2012 12: 22
      +3
      yes, bucks, golden words .... all these dissidents received good dividends from the west ... we must remember the same Mikhalkov, who began to scum the power and received an Oscar for weary of the sun ....
    4. Perch_xnumx
      Perch_xnumx 1 November 2012 12: 30
      -3
      Was there no corruption? Naive person. For gold and gold royal chervonets you could pay off (if you were a small man) or significantly ease your sentence, in exile you could ease your life and then make yourself a clean patchport (although I think that such corruption is only for the good). Step march the whole system of patriots in the post-war 40s and 50s in starvation, devastation, poverty, to raise the country, and generally raise at least something and say, or else just harder.
      1. Roman Dmitriev
        Roman Dmitriev 1 November 2012 15: 56
        0
        Quote: Perch_1
        Step march the whole system of patriots in the post-war 40s and 50s in starvation, devastation, poverty, to raise the country, and generally raise at least something and say, or else just harder.
        Duck do you think it was necessary to continue to live in dugouts and in ruins?
  2. smel
    smel 1 November 2012 07: 31
    +32
    The history of our country did not begin and did not end in the 37 years. There were bloody times before that period. My grandfather served 11 years, starting with 1932, and was able to return home only after changing the prisoner's robe to a soldier's overcoat in the 1943 year. I have never seen a patriot of Stalin, than he, my grandfather, in my life. So the opinion of the dusting of dust on my head about Stalin’s crime will not convince me, and they won’t force me to hate my homeland. There are other rulers that cause anger and hatred.
    1. Kaa
      Kaa 1 November 2012 09: 52
      +20
      Quote: smel
      The history of our country did not begin and did not end in the 37th years. There were bloody times before that period

      I will allow myself a small repost in support of your thesis: “Destalinizers record during the years of“ Stalinist repressions ”the period when Stalin was not number 1 in the country. So, in 1921-1922 power in the RSFSR was in the hands of Lenin and Trotsky, in 1923-1925 Zinoviev was No. 1, in 1926-1928 - Bukharin Yes, Stalin's positions were constantly strengthened in the 1920s, during the period of the alliance with Bukharin he was stronger than during the triumvirate with Zinoviev and Kamenev, and yet he formally became No. 1 only in 1929, defeating Bukharin's team, but only formally, since even in 1932, as the Ryutin case showed, Stalin could not alone decide how and whom to repress, even if these “whom” are planning to overthrow him. ”The situation changed only in 1935-1936, that is, from the 32 years of“ Stalinist repressions ”we must immediately subtract 14 years, most of which were carried out by the international socialists, the guards of the cardinals of Lenin's world revolution and Trotsky, pushing them in, Stalin created a power - com a munistic, but a power, not a zemstvo republic, he built the country, and did not create a world revolution. In the course of work on a new constitution, Stalin proposed introducing a provision on alternative elections into it. This was sharply opposed by the "regional barons" (Khrushchev, Eikhe and others) and "heroes of the civil", who feared that the people would choose a "counter" - representatives of the intelligentsia, priests, former White Guards, etc. Stalin's proposal was rolled by the Stalinist Politburo, but, in order to fully insure themselves, the "barons" and "heroes" decided to inflict a preemptive strike on those segments of the population that caused them the greatest fear. The main “butchers” were Khrushchev, who later, retired, admits that his hands are covered in blood, and Eikhe. a significant part of the repressions is associated with the clarification of relations with each other of the various enkavedesh clans (this issue is well covered by L. Naumov and others). And this further narrows the scope of the Stalinist "part" of the repressions, the victims of which were many of those who began these repressions in 1936-1937, those who raped the country in the 1920s, who sought to turn Russians into brushwood for a dredging fire, who decoded the Cossacks and poisoned the Russian peasants with gases.
      “Destalizers-2011” lament: the repression fell upon the best. Who are the best? The Zinovievs, Kamenevs, Radeks, Bukharin, who hated and despised the Russian people? Eikhe, the Post-Syshev, Tukhachevsky, Yakirs? Repression fell on those who woke the Russian famously. http://alternate-politics.info/content/andrei_fursov_destalinizatsiya_tainye_kod

      y
      1. s1н7т
        s1н7т 1 November 2012 10: 10
        -4
        Quote: Kaa
        The de-Stalinists record during the years of “Stalinist repressions” the period when Stalin was not number 1 in the country

        Well, yes, everything is correct - in fact. But even here the author could not resist the idiotic liberalistic pathetics -
        Quote: Kaa
        He sought to turn the Russians into brushwood for the earthquake fire, who used up the Cossacks and poisoned Russian peasants with gases.
      2. alexng
        alexng 1 November 2012 12: 01
        +4
        But ball-skiers do not give a damn about such inaccuracies; the main thing for them is to throw a portion of the necessary garbage into a fragile mind.
      3. sapulid
        sapulid 1 November 2012 20: 12
        -6
        Wise Kaa, you, by chance, didn’t notice the halo and wings of Stalin? :)
        Do you really think that everything was done without his wise leadership?
        Are you naive or different?
    2. alexng
      alexng 1 November 2012 10: 04
      +5
      It used to be:
      "A bad soldier who does not dream of being a general"
      Now very liberal:
      "Loch is the soldier who does not think to beat the general."

      No matter how hard the current distortors of history try, the truth will triumph anyway.
    3. ZAVET
      ZAVET 1 November 2012 11: 31
      -10
      My grandfathers defended our ROD - the Motherland and the Fatherland in the Second World War and did not see Comrade Son-Jew in the trenches.
      1. stas52
        stas52 1 November 2012 12: 36
        +17
        small copy-paste for you:
        So, from the protocol of the interrogation by the Germans of the prisoner of war, senior lieutenant Yakov Iosifovich Dzhugashvili, it follows that on 16 of July 1941 of the year in the Lyasnovo area he was captured as battery commander of the 14 howitzer regiment assigned to the 14 tank division. It also follows from the documents that Dzhugashvili was held in a prisoner of war camp near the city of Gommelsburg in Southern Bavaria from April to June 1942. He behaved courageously and with dignity. Finally, the archive contains a memorandum of the Deputy Minister of Internal Affairs of the USSR, Ivan Alexandrovich Serov, to the Minister of Internal Affairs Sergey Nikiforovich Kruglov from 14 of September 1946 of the year, which states that, based on interrogations of the commandant and commander of the concentration camp battalion Sachsenhausen, it was found out that in March 1943 of the year Dzhugashvili was transferred to this concentration camp and was held in a special camp “A”. He kept himself independent and introverted, even with some contempt for the camp administration, and did not talk to anyone. At the end of the 1943 of the year, while taking a walk near the hut, Dzhugashvili refused to comply with the requirement to go into the hut and went through a neutral path to the wire. After the cry of the sentry, Jacob began to curse, tore open the gates of the tunic and shouted to the sentry: “Shoot!” The sentry shot in the head and killed Dzhugashvili.
        1. aksakal
          aksakal 1 November 2012 13: 32
          +17
          Quote: stas52
          After the cry of the sentry, Jacob began to curse, tore the gates of the tunic and shouted to the sentry: “Shoot!” The sentry shot in the head and killed Dzhugashvili.

          - I’m not changing the lieutenant to the general. Honor and glory to Stalin, honor and glory to his son.
          Perhaps Stalin was mistaken somewhere in state-building, somewhere he did not take into account the objective laws of social and economic systems, which then still affected. But he did everything he could, which was in his power with his high school education. And left a great power with great achievements. Those who condemn him themselves were presidents for as long as 4 years, but during their reign, the nifig did not do anything but anecdotal skolko, and in foreign policy they also did something concrete - here is Libya, and the supply of S-300 to Iran, and dangerous delay in the conflict on 08.08.08/XNUMX/XNUMX, and much more, to Stalin as a cancer to Beijing, but all the same, they condemn them, like they waged a war with their own people! Notice, screwed up, having a brilliant education - not a horse feed!
          What would Stalin do if he had such an education!
          And about frozen potatoes, as Martyra complained here - that was the time. It was not only in the USSR that they were starving - in the States it was even worse at that time. It was impossible to walk under the skyscrapers, they tried to walk in the middle of the avenues and streets. And God forbid starving too. But the amers do not curse their Franklin done by Roosevelt, but they make ours curse. By the way, Roosevelt also pursued dissent, calling it an entertainment "witch hunt", he even set up a powerful office for this business, Hoover, a jerk of pants with straps at that time, headed.
          Let’s talk about de-Stalinization only after de-de-revalization in the States. Until then, the memorial - to Kolyma. Let them conduct their research there and reveal the names of the prisoners - there it is more convenient, because the sought-after comrades were there.
          1. s1н7т
            s1н7т 1 November 2012 20: 21
            +1
            Quote: aksakal
            Let’s talk about de-Stalinization only after de-de-revalization in the States.

            Great idea! This should (the keys refuse to write - ours) the Foreign Ministry declare!
          2. Konrad
            Konrad 2 November 2012 20: 56
            -1
            Quote: aksakal
            Let’s talk about de-Stalinization only after de-de-revalization in the States.

            Roosevelt brought his country out of the greatest economic crisis. Roosevelt did not destroy his own people.
            1. brr77
              brr77 3 November 2012 11: 22
              0
              / Konrad /
              "Roosevelt led his country out of the greatest economic crisis. Roosevelt did not destroy his own people."
              and the blacks who live there are not people or something
              1. Konrad
                Konrad 5 November 2012 16: 00
                -3
                Quote: brr77
                and the blacks who live there are not people or something

                And what "negros", I do not understand, Roosevelt ate them for lunch ??? By the way, if you call a black man there, you can get in big trouble!
                1. Rink
                  Rink 5 November 2012 21: 24
                  0
                  Quote: Konrad
                  .... By the way, if you call a black man a black man there, you can have a lot of trouble!

                  This, of course, is not news, but does not cease to amaze with its stupidity. As if from the fact that they began to call blacks African-Americans, they turned white and ceased to be blacks? And why didn’t they rename Niger in any way (is this a country like that in Africa)? And what do you want to call the inhabitants of Niger - African-African?

                  That's really really: "The amount of reason on the planet is a constant value. And the population is growing ...."
            2. mark021105
              mark021105 3 November 2012 23: 27
              +2
              During the Great Depression in the United States, millions of people died of starvation ...

              http://tainy.net/11075-nastoyashhij-golodomor-byl-ne-v-sssr-a-v-ssha.html
          3. carver
            carver 7 November 2012 11: 42
            +1
            aksakal,

            Yes, everything he took into account http://ivstalin.su/
            He argued with his contemporaries how to understand the path of the country's socialist development. And he did not argue at all with words: - to shoot; - plant, etc. etc.
            Another thing is that after his death, goofy nerds like Khrushchev came to power, no Khrushchev was not a traitor or a person trying to break up the Union, he simply did not understand how the state should develop, that’s all. Stalin had only one big flaw in running the country: he did not prepare a system of succession of power, as was done in China. As a result, the vector of development of the country deviated towards not consistent development, but a constant squabble for power at the top of the country, and the coming to power of freaks labeled and drunk.
  3. grizzlir
    grizzlir 1 November 2012 07: 32
    +26
    Quote: bask
    , Memorial ,, the most meager Amer organization in Russia. (

    Okay there Memorial. We read: Dmitry Medvedev said that Joseph Stalin and other Soviet leaders deserve a tough assessment, and called Stalinism a delusion common among those who are not threatened by dictatorship.

    “Joseph Stalin and other leaders of the Soviet state of that time deserve the most severe assessment. This should remain in the annals of our history so that this never happens again. Because the war with your people is a grave crime, ”the Prime Minister wrote on his page on the social network Facebook.
    http://www.gazeta.ru/politics/news/2012/10/31/n_2596501.shtml
    And whose man is Dmitry Medvedev? No, well, there are those that he will say on his own, I will not convince them.
    If we assume that The myth of the Stalinist "big terror" - part of the information war against Russia , then where does this war come from?
    Given the personality of IW Stalin and DA Medvedev, Krylov’s fable, ELEPHANT and MOSCOW, comes to mind.
    1. NIKOLAI T
      NIKOLAI T 1 November 2012 09: 03
      +11
      I, too, was touched by reading this Medvedev pearl.
      It was not possible to become famous for the prohibition of 100-watt bulbs, so let’s crap on Stalin.
      Who are you and who is he?
      It is the elephant and the Moscow.
      1. YARY
        YARY 1 November 2012 09: 48
        +13
        Mammoth and lice!
        1. s1н7т
          s1н7т 1 November 2012 10: 13
          +3
          Quote: Ardent
          Mammoth and lice!

          It will be more accurate, yes. But, in my opinion, it is more correct to write "louse", no? laughing
          1. Vanek
            Vanek 1 November 2012 11: 41
            +4
            Quote: c1n7
            it is more correct to write "louse", no?


            It may be more correct. But here the main point is to convey. laughing And Andrei did it (meaning to convey).
            1. Igarr
              Igarr 1 November 2012 12: 42
              +17
              More correctly - a voshka ..
              And ahead is that part of the word that everyone heard.
              ...
              I’ll take it, so I’ll answer my colleague Zavet ...
              "..ZAVET (4) Today, 11:14 ↑ new -2
              Basil
              Ivan
              Peter
              Alexey...."
              ...
              Igor, Andrey, Pavel, Elena, Vladimir, Valentina - this is me, my siblings, parents.
              All-Russian.
              They became born because the grandparents survived the "genocide of the Russian people !!!"
              Both grandfather and uncle are war veterans.
              At the same time - I had to screw up at a pace with the Penza region in 1937.
              ...
              What rested on genocide?
              Jews shot themselves in percentage terms more than Russians - during the time of repression.
              And one - so generally gangster - an ice ax on the head.
              FATE - such.
              Yesterday there was heavy snowfall in Orel. Beaten cars - horror, twenty times more than normal. Is GDP to blame? Will Medvedev answer? Or the governor?
              In February, an icicle will fly over the river. Will we blame Putin? Or will ZhREU answer?
              ...
              Fell under the hand - fate. I didn’t get there - fate too.
              We are not offended that we did not happen to be born a prince of England.
              ...
              But the country was.
              50 Mega bombs exploded. I flew into space successfully. A remote-controlled tank drove along the Moon, drove UFOs and Serykhs, did not let Armstrong go.
              Almost the Ob was not turned into Central Asia. Salmon would have appeared there.
              And now?
              In the zones - annually 2 million. Not repressed.
              No space, no moon tractor.
              One vomit from everywhere. And dope.
              1. Seversk
                Seversk 1 November 2012 12: 51
                +13
                "When I die, a lot of rubbish will be put on my grave, but the wind of time will ruthlessly sweep it away." Stalin.
                1. s1н7т
                  s1н7т 1 November 2012 20: 27
                  +2
                  Quote: Seversk
                  "When I die, a lot of rubbish will be put on my grave, but the wind of time will ruthlessly sweep it away." Stalin.


                  Damn smart, however! Half of his prediction came true, the second in line.
              2. brr77
                brr77 3 November 2012 11: 28
                0
                Well, not 2 million, but still more than sitting under Stalin.
                and they plant someone not oligarchs but ordinary people who could not pay off.
                1. Konrad
                  Konrad 6 November 2012 06: 56
                  0
                  Quote: brr77
                  they plant someone not oligarchs but ordinary people

                  They put criminals, not ordinary people. The oligarchs are also Khodorkovsky.
            2. KamikadZzzE
              KamikadZzzE 1 November 2012 22: 10
              0
              dare to suggest "stinky bug"
    2. X-55
      X-55 1 November 2012 14: 54
      +6
      Quote: grizzlir
      Because war with your people is a grave crime

      And when at present the indigenous population in batches dies out, is this not a war with its people?
      It would be better if Putin and Medvedev did not give their assessments to Stalin, because they are pathetic against his background.
      1. grizzlir
        grizzlir 1 November 2012 16: 05
        +5
        Quote: X-55
        And when at present the indigenous population in batches dies out,
        A missile is not an extinction, it is a deliberate replacement of the Russian people by a readership from the Caucasus.
      2. Konrad
        Konrad 2 November 2012 21: 03
        -4
        Quote: X-55
        we are currently indigenous populations dying out

        directly from alcohol poisoning - 40 per year
        from violent death, while intoxicated - up to 15 per year
        in accidents with alcohol intoxication - about 5000 per year
        suicides - over 20 per year.
        Really "packs"!
    3. npv554f
      npv554f 1 November 2012 19: 24
      0
      Do not offend dogs, the dog is a man’s friend. And I would compare LADY with a bug, and biting and smelly.
    4. d.gksueyjd
      d.gksueyjd 3 November 2012 15: 52
      +1
      Quote: grizzlir
      Dmitry Medvedev said that Joseph Stalin and other Soviet leaders deserve a tough assessment, and called Stalinism a delusion common among those who are not threatened by dictatorship.

      Medvedev also said that the 1996 Yeltsin elections were rigged, WHY, according to the Constitution of the Russian Federation and the Criminal Code, there is no criminal case on this fact, the statute of limitations for this claim has not expired.
  4. Strashila
    Strashila 1 November 2012 07: 33
    +6
    We love the link to article 58 ... forgetting that this article has a large number of subparagraphs. The main essence of the article is crimes against the state and these are not only political, but also thieves, corrupt officials, traitors, spies and other criminal components. All the marching together Essexists in the Baltic States all fell under this article and are alive thanks to the Marotor’s death penalty after the war. Many got rehabilitated not because they were so striving for justice, but only because most of them got into these lists when they rehabilitated all were recognized in relation to whom the procedural rules were violated. Here from where these millions are. Take away from these millions all collectors, Germans, Chechens, Ignushes, Crimean Tatars ... and that’s the result.
  5. Vanek
    Vanek 1 November 2012 07: 36
    +7
    And you can add to those numbers that in the article to add those same liberals. Well, do the same with theirs. And there they let them ask who? whom? and for how much?

    You can apply to all the moments of our history: - Whoever remembers the old, that eye is out. And even more so to blame someone.
    1. grizzlir
      grizzlir 1 November 2012 08: 05
      +2
      Quote: Vanek
      And you can add to those numbers that in the article to add those same liberals.

      Sorry, I read it and I want to ask you a question as a person clearly versed in the topic of liberalism. I have asked it on the site several times, but I can’t get an answer. I’m a 40 year old man, and I seem to have told a lot in my life, but I just can’t understand who these liberals are , liberalism, liberalists, what is a liberal column?
      The modern media, who are close to power openly blacken everything that happened in the USSR, you call them liberals. The opposition butts the government, the whole opposition is called liberals, Yeltsin’s extortioner Nemtsov is a liberalist, outspoken enemies are Kovalev and Novodvorskaya are liberalists. Nationalist

      opposition-liberalists. The left front-liberalists. The party of Zhirik in general is the Liberal Democratic Party (I don’t need to decipher). Medvedev, when he entered the presidency, declared that he was a politician of liberal views. So who are these liberals in our country? Or name those who are not liberal.
      1. bagira
        bagira 1 November 2012 08: 24
        +7
        But when you hear that our backward country needs to be aligned with the free and democratic countries of the West, you should know that this is a liberal
        1. grizzlir
          grizzlir 1 November 2012 08: 38
          +1
          Quote: bagira
          But how do you hear that our backward country needs to look up to the free and democratic countries of the West

          That is, to develop democratic institutions, I understand correctly?
          1. bagira
            bagira 1 November 2012 08: 45
            +1
            Yes, as in the 90s with EBN.
          2. s1н7т
            s1н7т 1 November 2012 10: 19
            +8
            Quote: grizzlir
            That is, to develop democratic institutions, I understand correctly?

            laughing Name at least one such "developed" "institution" as a result!
          3. The centurion
            The centurion 1 November 2012 10: 36
            +12
            Quote: grizzlir
            That is, to develop democratic institutions, I understand correctly?

            No, not right. During the twentieth century, in the system of political pluralism in torment 4 finally took shape the main ideologies: it is conservative, democratic, liberal and socialist. At the junction of ideologies, a mass of symbioses grew, for example, the democrats turned out to be very prolific. There are many varieties of them: social democrats, liberal democrats, national democrats, Christian democrats, constitutional democrats, etc. No less diverse are others. Within each ideology, there are radical and moderate trends. For so long, the Communists who ruled in the USSR for ideological verification would turn out to be left-wing, radical Social Democrats and Socialist Revolutionaries, from whom they sprang.
            One of our classic taught: "... people should be addressed briefly, with a slogan, an appeal, then they will understand." Another said: "... in order to understand the essence of the picture, it is necessary to drop the palette and present the plot drawn in charcoal." Armed with this technique, without going into the subtleties of each ideology and rejecting the hordes of the scientific locust, you can briefly and concisely formulate the creed of each ideology:
            - conservative - upholding and protecting the interests of the family, property and traditions;
            - Democratic - upholding and defending the interests of the majority formed at the elections;
            - liberal - upholding and protecting the interests of minorities;
            - socialist - upholding and protecting the interests of the working classes.
            The union of liberals and democrats you mentioned was formed during perestroika on the basis of cave-like anti-communism. It was a union between a snake and a hedgehog, and it could not be strong and durable. Today we clearly see that the interests of liberals and democrats are fundamentally different, because the main democratic value is "upholding and protecting the interests of the majority that emerged during the elections", and the Mensheviks defending the interests of minorities have nothing to do with it. In order to fundamentally protect the country from liberal and any color revolutions, it is necessary to further develop and improve our democracy. This liberal protest after December 4 is a kind of test for our democracy.
            1. aksakal
              aksakal 1 November 2012 13: 46
              +5
              Quote: Centurion
              It was a union between a snake and a hedgehog, and it could not be strong and durable. Today we clearly see that the interests of liberals and democrats are fundamentally different, because the main democratic value is "upholding and protecting the interests of the majority that emerged during the elections", and the Mensheviks defending the interests of minorities have nothing to do with it.

              - plus, the centurion, was about to write in an ovtet at the request of GrZlip, then I saw your post - thanks, saved me from knocking on the keys -))))). But the union of a snake and a hedgehog is quite stable and leads to the emergence of very stable, albeit not very pleasant offspring - her name is barbed wire, or a liberal-democratic look, as you like.
              The main liberal-democratic value is "upholding and protecting the interests of the minority formed during the elections, even if the elections are clearly lost."
              In very controlled doses, liberalism should be, for there will be no one to protect various minorities, including sexual ones. I do not sympathize with the blue, but I do not want to live in a society where they are killed - after all, the 21st century is in the yard, wake up. Let them live in specially designated basements places and eyes do not appear again. I repeat - in small and strictly controlled doses liberalism has the right to be, but nothing more!
            2. ivachum
              ivachum 1 November 2012 14: 10
              0
              click in the search - "Democracy - rule of the people or tyranny of the majority?"
            3. Rink
              Rink 3 November 2012 16: 12
              0
              Quote: Centurion
              .... the credo of each ideology:
              - conservative - upholding and protecting the interests of the family, property and traditions;
              - Democratic - upholding and defending the interests of the majority formed at the elections;
              - liberal - upholding and protecting the interests of minorities;
              - socialist - upholding and protecting the interests of the working classes.
              .....

              Based on this, we can say that socialist ideology is a variety, a special case of the democratic? it’s just that here the majority is formed not in the elections according to some arbitrary situational coincidence of interests, but on a more permanent basis - the way of life (the working classes have been and will always be the majority).
          4. Konrad
            Konrad 3 November 2012 08: 57
            -1
            Quote: grizzlir
            That is, to develop the institutions of democracy

            The main form of democracy in the modern state is a representative form of democracy, which is implemented through the institution of parliamentarism. Parliament rules on behalf of the people, thus embodying the principle of popular sovereignty. The people as the bearer of the supreme power through elections exercise control over the activities of their representatives, expressing to them their trust or distrust.
            1. brr77
              brr77 3 November 2012 11: 37
              0
              ideally, yes, that’s what happens as you said, just show in which country this ideal is.
        2. Kaa
          Kaa 1 November 2012 09: 57
          +4
          Quote: bagira
          But how do you hear that our backward country needs to look up to the free and democratic countries of the West,

          How is the number of prisoners equal? So let's compare. Pay attention, the numbers are Western, now in the US there are much more, but even such "sleek" ones are also impressive ... The picture is clickable.
          1. DYMITRY
            DYMITRY 1 November 2012 10: 33
            +7
            Quote: Kaa
            Pay attention, the numbers are Western, now in the US there are much more, but such "sleek" ones are also impressive

            Good day, dear. The other day I cited information for 2010, but no sin will happen again:
            Currently, there are 100 prisoners per 760 US residents. This is more than five times the average of 1980, and significantly exceeds the number of Soviet citizens who were in the camps at the peak of Stalinist terror. Then the number of prisoners was 560 per 100 thousand people. As you can see, the excess is 200 people per 100 thousand or 35,7%. ,
            1. Kaa
              Kaa 1 November 2012 17: 10
              +3
              Quote: DYMITRY
              This is more than five times the average of 1980, and significantly exceeds the number of Soviet citizens who were in the camps at the peak of Stalinist terror.

              Hello! Let's bring the argument to its logical conclusion. If 1937 was a "burp" of the unfinished civil war in the USSR, then the growing number of prisoners in the US camps reflects the US civil war. Whom with whom? Those who have a "living wage" in the form of fast food, jeans, a jacket, a second-hand car and the super-rich with the "middle class" serving them, the police and other attributes of "shitty doggy". This war is taking place on the streets in the form of the spread of drugs and the hunt for drug dealers, prostitution on the one hand and harassment laws on the other, the imposition of "life on credit" and severe "knocking out" of debts. These, of course, are not dashing cavalry raids, but take a look at the graph by years - the external enemy - the USSR has disappeared - the mortality rate from the internal enemy - overdose has increased. and how many other manifestations ...
          2. Strashila
            Strashila 1 November 2012 13: 17
            +4
            It’s about how to poke a famine against Russia ... and quietly keep silent about the dead from starvation in the States during the Great Depression.
            1. Kaa
              Kaa 1 November 2012 17: 21
              +3
              Quote: Strashila
              silently silent about the dead from starvation in the States during the Great Depression.

              Let's not be silent, otherwise Vick on this issue has already ... been erased.
              The free Wikipedia encyclopedia has deleted an article by a Russian researcher, which is devoted to assessing US losses as a result of the Great Depression of 1932-33. Based on the analysis of statistical data, Boris Borisov in the article “The Holodomor as an American” estimated the number of victims of the financial crisis in the USA to be more than 7 million people - and for the first time directly compared what happened in the USA in 1932-33 with the famine in the USSR 1932-33- x In his article, Borisov uses official data from the US Statistical Office. At the same time, considering the period of the Great Depression, the author notes a surprising resemblance to what was happening in the 30s in the USSR. He even introduces the term "defarming" for the United States, as an analogue of the Soviet "dispossession of money".
              “Few people know ... about five million American farmers (about a million families) at exactly the same time that the banks drove the land out of debt, but were not provided by the US government with either land, work, social assistance, or an old-age pension,” - the article says. And, at the same time, the US government was getting rid of surplus food that merchants could not sell. For example, 6,5 million pigs were destroyed and 10 million hectares of land were harvested with the crop. ” Held under the auspices of the Public Works Administration (PWA) and Civil Works Administration - IAS, the work consisted of the construction of canals, roads, bridges, often in uninhabited and marshy malarial areas. Up to 3,3 million people were engaged in such jobs at a time, all in all, 8,5 million people went through the American system of “public works” - “this is not counting the prisoners themselves”, the administration of public works is headed by a kind of “American Beria” - the Minister of the Interior G. Ickes, who, since 1932, imprisoned about two million people in camps for unemployed youth, ”Borisov writes,“ the same Harold LeClair Ickes (Ickes, Harold LeClair) (1874–1952) [who later] at lightning speed, during interacting with the army, interned ethnic Japanese Americans in concentration camps. (1941/42 year). The first stage of the operation took only 72 hours. " “In total, according to estimates, in 1940 the US population, while maintaining the previous demographic trends, should have been at least 141,856 million people,” the author of the article writes further. - The actual population of the country in 1940 amounted to only 131,409 million, of which only 3,054 million are explainable due to changes in the dynamics of migration. So, 7 million 394 thousand people as of 1940 are simply absent. There are no official explanations on this subject. ”Http: //ruskline.ru/news_rl/2012/11/01/vikipediya_sterla_statyu_pro_amerikan
              skij_gulag_i_golodomor /
              1. s1н7т
                s1н7т 1 November 2012 20: 13
                +2
                Quote: Kaa

                Let's not be silent, otherwise Vick on this issue has already ... been erased.
                The free Wikipedia encyclopedia has deleted an article by a Russian researcher devoted to assessing US losses as a result of the Great Depression of 1932-33


                Hrenase! Did not know. And these 7 million - in 2 years ?! Shopipets! And the "free encyclopedia Wikipedia" is now written in quotation marks!
        3. arkady149
          arkady149 1 November 2012 21: 02
          +1
          And there are, unfortunately, and PR pastes there are a lot of them in politics.
        4. Konrad
          Konrad 3 November 2012 08: 52
          -2
          Quote: bagira

          But when you hear that our backward country needs to be aligned with the free and democratic countries of the West, you should know that this is a liberal

          But when you hear what you need to plant and shoot, crush and strangle for dissent, so know that before you - STALIRAST.
      2. Vanek
        Vanek 1 November 2012 08: 35
        +4
        Quote: grizzlir
        and I want to ask you a question as a person clearly versed in the topic of liberalism


        My confusion knows no bounds smile I do not really understand this issue. But it seems to me that you yourself answered:

        Quote: grizzlir
        The opposition butts with the government, the whole opposition is called the liberals, the Yeltsin extortioner Nemtsov is a liberalist, the outright enemies are Kovalev and Novodvorskaya are liberalists.


        I think so. The leftists, liberals and whoever else is there, do not agree with the current policy, with the current "main", they do not like Our laws, Our foundations, etc., etc. And such "etc." you can write mom do not grieve how much. And it is worth asking a question: - What exactly do you disagree with? There are two answers, either absolutely off-topic, or there is simply nothing to answer.

        And here are the liberals, the left and who else is there. He was asked: - What do not agree with? And he’s just in his pants ............... Just don’t tell me they say the shadows are not so laid down, they say the angle is not the same.
        1. grizzlir
          grizzlir 1 November 2012 09: 11
          +4
          Quote: Vanek
          And here are the liberals, the left and who else is there. He was asked: - What do not agree with? And he's just in his pants

          Interestingly, you seemed to be present at the same time. An immodest question, are you on the left of it or on the right?
          In general, apparently you haven’t often been in stressful situations. If you’ve gotten well through the kidneys or lower abdomen, then you don’t want to change your pants. When I first got stuffed into an RPG tank, my mechanic not only pissed. Well, task performed.
          1. Vanek
            Vanek 1 November 2012 09: 29
            +3
            Quote: grizzlir
            Interestingly, you seemed to be present at the same time. An immodest question, are you on the left of it or on the right?


            Oddly enough, but I was not there. I live in Novosibirsk.

            Quote: grizzlir
            In general, apparently you were not often in stressful situations


            I am basically a peace-loving person. And your mechanics feel sorry.
            1. grizzlir
              grizzlir 1 November 2012 09: 51
              +2
              Quote: Vanek
              And your mechanics feel sorry.
              It’s not a matter of pity. Many people judge situations from the outside. Only when you feel all the charms on your own skin and visit these situations can only be reasoned. By the way, my mechanic Lesha is not a bad guy and a good tank driver from your region, from under Biza if not I’m mistaken. The last time he called me and said that he works for a penny, the child is small. He is also not very happy with what is happening in the country. What do you think, is he a liberal?
              1. Vanek
                Vanek 1 November 2012 11: 38
                +5
                Quote: grizzlir
                It's not about pity.


                I apologize hi Decided to poke so to speak.

                Quote: grizzlir
                Do you think he is a liberal?


                The main thing is that the person was good. But we have already found out.
                Quote: grizzlir
                my mechanic Lesha is not a bad guy and a good driver
                You may not be happy, I also do not really trust the "main" in some aspects. But at the same time I do not go to the swamp, I don’t get on the fountains, the cops don’t accept Me, etc. Ooooh, the current understood right now, I have enough other worries - work, home, family. And this marsh, it turns out that there are no other worries.
      3. Inzhengr
        Inzhengr 1 November 2012 09: 47
        -2
        And so it is more convenient, with the help of the media, they created a negative image of the liberals and drove all the opposition under it. 99% of our people no longer understand the real term "liberalism". Now the liberals "have become the tame dogs of the State Department," "who is not with us is a liberal !!!"
        1. 11Goor11
          11Goor11 1 November 2012 18: 23
          +3
          Now the liberals "have become the tame dogs of the State Department," "who is not with us is a liberal !!!"

          Well, who forced them to run shoals to McFaul for advice and salary?
          Let us, poor things, sincerely regret that such a realistic public opinion was formed about them that they were unable to seize power and ruin Russia, and even grants are in jeopardy. Ah, ah, but what has already been received from American taxpayers should be enough, at least in the near future?
          1. Konrad
            Konrad 3 November 2012 09: 14
            0
            Quote: 11Goor11
            Let them, poor things, sincerely regret

            No one regrets these goats, just why are they equated with all those who are against Stalinism? I have already been sent a hundred times to Bolotnaya, to the State Department for money, and they also attributed the collapse and sale of the country! It remains to be blamed for spying on Honduras intelligence. Particularly funny are those who poured mud over Medvedev here, hungry before each other in the invention of obscene comparisons, who they imagined themselves ??? Also elephants ???
          2. Val_y
            Val_y 7 November 2012 16: 51
            0
            Class, agree laughing
          3. Inzhengr
            Inzhengr 21 November 2012 09: 05
            0
            I'm talking about the substitution of concepts, read who is a liberal in the encyclopedia
      4. The centurion
        The centurion 1 November 2012 10: 39
        +8
        Quote: grizzlir
        I just can’t understand who these liberals are,

        The last elections once again showed that the liberals cannot take power in a democratic way. And nothing surprising. This follows from the system of liberal values, of which the main value sounds like this: "upholding and protecting the interests of minorities." Even if a miracle happens and all minorities, sexual, liberal, national, social, religious, etc. will vote for the liberals, it will be about 15 percent, while this is a very optimistic forecast. For example, from social minorities, liberals are clearly interested only in the rich, the poor relax - they are indifferent to you. Of the national minorities, they are only interested in the interests of one, God's people. For example, just remember one of the first Decrees of the Central Executive Committee. It was called "On the most oppressed nation" and gave such fantastic privileges to this national minority that in the 20s the authorities had to back up and introduce quotas limiting their representation in all spheres of life in the Soviet Republic. Their representation in a multinational country reached the point of absurdity, in some places up to 100%. They still cannot forgive Stalin for these quotas and are eager for revenge. So the Tatars, Bashkirs, Chechens, Yakuts and other national minorities, relax - they are slightly interested in you only on the way to power, as an electorate. I will not say anything about sexual and religious minorities, not in the subject. Of course, with such a small electorate, one cannot win by democratic means. So they decided to stir up the "snow-mink revolution".
        1. grizzlir
          grizzlir 1 November 2012 12: 48
          +3
          But Zhirinovsky with his liberal-democratic and Medvedev with his liberal worldviews then who?
          1. bask
            bask 1 November 2012 12: 58
            +4
            grizzilFrom the movie_elections, elections, deputies pi ............. s Which side do not spit they will not miss everywhere. And greedy bureaucrats-jackals with hungry eyes. How could something and where to clean ... Only personal honesty of the leader, and his entourage can improve the situation in the country ... And at least get a little off the gas and oil needles ,,,,
      5. tan0472
        tan0472 1 November 2012 13: 11
        +7
        Quote: grizzlir
        I’m a 40 year old man, and I seem to have told a lot in my life, but I just can’t understand who these liberals, liberals, liberalists are, what is a liberal column?

        For me, liberals are those who put the interests of the minority above the interests of the majority.
        These are those who, for the sake of embodying their ideas and desires, are ready to go over the heads of the majority (after all, their ideas and desires are the only true ones). But for this it is necessary to turn the country into a bloody mess - it does not matter (liberal ideas and desires of the minority are more important)
        These are those who agree at least to the New Revolution, even to the occupation - the main thing is to achieve your goal.
        Liberasts are those who say - since you didn’t vote for me, you are a trickster (a term from Ekhomoskva), and I am an elite.
        In a word, this is an abnormal opposition. A normal opposition is one that says, when losing, I could not convince voters of my innocence, but I will do so in the next election. In the meantime, I will build the country under the current leadership, because the people so wanted. Because it is my people. I am part of it.
        And if the liberals do not like the people who do not want to choose them - get out of the country. Now is not the USSR - the borders are open.
        1. Konrad
          Konrad 3 November 2012 21: 14
          -1
          Quote: tan0472
          For me, liberals are those who put the interests of the minority above the interests of the majority.
          These are those who, for the sake of translating their ideas and desires, are ready to go over the heads of the majority (after all, their ideas and desires are the only true ones). But for this, you need to turn the country into a bloody mess - it doesn’t matter

          Rather, all this is characteristic of the stalarists, who are ready to turn not only their country, but the whole world into a "bloody mess".
    2. ivachum
      ivachum 1 November 2012 14: 08
      +1
      Right! Reprimand comrade Stalin for the poorly done work! I would have done well - all this liberal-democratic trash would not have been born ... am
  6. MatrixLine
    MatrixLine 1 November 2012 07: 46
    +13
    We emphasize that the numbers of convicted 3 and 777 executed are 380 years old; on average, about 642 convicts per year and ~ 980 executed are sentenced for about a year, given the difficult (dangerous) internal situation in the country, no less than the difficult geopolitical situation around the country can be quite justified, but if you compare with the same USA, provided that the USSR was larger, then everything will fall into place, where the totalitarian regime and where not .... In general, in my opinion, it is necessary to establish MEMORY DAY VICTIMS OF LIBERAL REFORMS (for example, on the day of the collapse of the USSR), because in terms of scale (casualties and destruction) this is comparable to the losses in the Second World War ..
    1. Goga
      Goga 1 November 2012 08: 58
      +7
      MatrixLine - Colleague, you can't count "by the average for a year" - then the "average" includes the victims of the "red terror" carried out by "anonymous" (Uritsky, Volodarsky, thieves ... and their name is Legion), led by Leiba Bronstein (Trotsky ). The great Russian writer (now deceased) V. Soloukhin wrote about it this way - who was killed in 1937? - those who killed us in 1919!
      Therefore, here you need to clearly understand - the first and most numerous victims of terror are on the account of those whom the author of the article modestly called the "Lenin Guard", and on Stalin's account is precisely the destruction of this Zionist infection - this is why the current successors of the cause of Trotsky (IS) even dead do not leave alone.
      1. MatrixLine
        MatrixLine 1 November 2012 10: 33
        +6
        Thanks for the comment, I perfectly understand the erroneousness of the averages in such a judgment, I will add on my own that if I were contemplating such an article, I did not mention the phrase "Lenin Guard" - which unites everyone in one heap, but would clearly separate Leninists and Trotskyists, and many more haters of the USSR like to throw mud at the Bolsheviks, forgetting about the results of the February revolution and what it led to.
    2. YARY
      YARY 1 November 2012 09: 59
      +2
      And this is a completely sound and fair proposal!
      I AM FOR!


      Put forward a site discussion!
  7. predator.2
    predator.2 1 November 2012 07: 52
    +11
    For some reason, when they talk about the 37th, the genocide of the Russian people in the 1917-20s is always hushed up. after all, then the Jewish commissars essentially destroyed the Russian elite, nobody-millions would give an exact figure, and in the 37th Stalin first sent these commissars, all kinds of Radeks, Tomsk berries, etc. to oblivion. Well, ordinary citizens suffered mainly because of denunciations against each other.
  8. Fox
    Fox 1 November 2012 08: 07
    +6
    and where is the 8th company? its theme, sprinkle with saliva ...
    1. grizzlir
      grizzlir 1 November 2012 08: 13
      0
      good To appear, to appear hearted. He will not miss this topic.
    2. grizzlir
      grizzlir 1 November 2012 08: 14
      +5
      good To appear, to appear hearted. He will not miss this topic.
  9. The centurion
    The centurion 1 November 2012 08: 20
    +11
    This nonsense about 100 of millions of victims of Stalinism was charged by Jude Solzhenitsyn in his Archipelago. When he was wiped out of the USSR, by the way, for defamation, in an interview with a correspondent, Humanite asked him what he thought about this nonsense. Judas replied that he was not a historian, but a writer, therefore he was entitled to apply such a literary device as the grotesque, repeatedly increasing the number of victims of Stalinism. And our swamp demons are still rushing with this nonsense.
    In fact, everything has long been counted, recounted. There is such a thing, food camp account books that are stored for a long time. So in perestroika, they were used to write and publish volumes of works for each camp, month, year. Where, when, how many people were content, what is the dynamics. According to this dynamics, loss, arrival, mortality were easily calculated. There are no tens of millions there. But this was an era of almost universal concussion of people in the head, and they believed mainly in liberals and their enemy AiF-type news stories. And all this information was printed in patriotic publications such as the Military History Journal and was not very popular. The time has come to raise the filings of the VIZh of those years.
    1. s1н7т
      s1н7т 1 November 2012 10: 26
      0
      Quote: Centurion
      And our swamp demons are still rushing with this nonsense.

      What does the "swamp" have to do with it ?! In my opinion, they are concerned about fair elections, no? In any case, I have not heard anything from them about Stalinism. It is the winners of dishonest elections who brand Stalinism - Medvedev and Co. You have something messed up laughing Unless, of course, you are a bot in the service of the winning party laughing
      1. Val_y
        Val_y 7 November 2012 16: 58
        0
        Hehe "fair elections", you yourself are not funny. Elections are ALWAYS not fair if they do not elect YOU or YOUR party laughing
    2. ikrut
      ikrut 2 November 2012 00: 42
      +3
      Quite right, Centurion. Moreover, an interesting little book was published, dedicated to the "archipelago", which contains the memoirs of those who sat in those times and in those places about which Solzhenitsyn writes. And even the title of the book is eloquent, dedicated to the author of the "archipelago" by former convicts. The book is called: "S u ka, you shameful."
  10. survivor
    survivor 1 November 2012 08: 35
    +8
    as under Stalin, the Ingush were exiled, everyone knows, in the same way as under the tsar-priest in Turkey, a few. Despite the eviction, those old people whom I knew always spoke very respectfully to Stalin. accusing him of all mortal sins, do not forget that he inherited from the former rulers? on the ruins of a ruined state, he was able to build an empire! win the war. and build it again. this alone is already a matter of respect. Again, many foreigners blaming Stalin, as it is very scantily spread about the actions of their politicians of that time! if we give a sober assessment of the actions of the same Churchill, then somehow the bloody acts of Stalin fade! and if, in addition to the acts of Churchill, the acts of Roosevelt, I am already silent about Hitler and Musolini, then ...
    in a word, big things require a lot of effort and a lot of blood!
  11. maxbrov74
    maxbrov74 1 November 2012 09: 09
    +6
    I think the comments are superfluous ...
  12. schta
    schta 1 November 2012 09: 20
    +6
    I’ll add from myself that the NKVD of Yagoda and Yezhov is incomparable with the NKVD of Beria. The article correctly noted that Yezhovism is a fraternity of the Dostalin regime. In addition, it should be noted that some of the employees of the Yagod and Yezhov NKVD were convicted by Beria.
  13. Averias
    Averias 1 November 2012 09: 33
    +10
    Forgive me friends for what I will say now. The article is good, no doubt, these "truth-tellers" have already got them, that on Stalin and everything that is connected with him, they make their face and people endure the brain. But if you look not biased, then this article can be turned differently. If the author writes about all these "Meomorials and other henchmen of democracy" who are trying to denigrate and impose on the people the idea that Stalin's regime is obscurantism and all his deeds are monstrous. And in the direction of the author, we can say that using all these "Memorials" he feeds into the brain of the people to drive the opposite. This is just my reasoning and nothing more. The era of Stalin is over, to gossip about who he was and what he did is absurd. But the fact that we live in a country that he raised from ruins after the war is a fact. Not only did he raise her, he brought her to the leading place in the world. When, at the mention of the USSR, the west began to tremble and have nightmares. Therefore, I consider all speculation in his name to be foul.
    1. s1н7т
      s1н7т 1 November 2012 10: 29
      +2
      Quote: Averias
      Therefore, all the speculations in his name, I consider lousy.

      Support!
    2. v53993
      v53993 1 November 2012 12: 44
      -3
      He started for health, in the middle he finished for peace, finished again for health. What did you want to say?
  14. 8 company
    8 company 1 November 2012 09: 51
    -10
    Yes, there is such a day - In memory of the victims of political repression. Let us remember all the innocently injured, and especially those who were destroyed by the internal enemy - I. Dzhugashvili and his junta, and could not take part in the Great Patriotic War against the external enemy. Here is a short list of such repressed soldiers and officers:
    Archived document:
    'Information on the state of military units of the special corps in the Mongolian People's Republic', prepared by the NKVD as of October 1, 1938 (RGVA, F.9, Op39s, D54, L6-9):
    Soldiers of the 36th Special Motorized Rifle Division arrested as members of an anti-Soviet military conspiracy:
    'The instructor of the political department of the division - Art. political instructor Polovets,
    Wreed the commander of the 107th Infantry Regiment, Major Kvashnin,
    Commissioner of the 107th Rifle Regiment - Art. political instructor Kucherov,
    room Captain Sirotin, commander of the 107th Infantry Regiment for households,
    beg. food service 107 joint venture - captain Minchukov,
    the commander of the 1st battalion of the 107th infantry regiment - Captain Kuklin,
    Chief of Staff of the 107th Rifle Regiment - Captain Forov,
    room Chief of Staff of the 107th Rifle Regiment - Art. Lieutenant Isaev,
    room Chief of Staff of the 107th Rifle Regiment - Art. Lieutenant Parfyonov,
    political instructor of the company of the 107th Infantry Regiment - Lieutenant Kogan,
    platoon commander of the 107th Infantry Regiment - ml. Lieutenant Ilyin,
    the chief of the financial service of the 107th Infantry Regiment - Lieutenant Levin,
    pompotech of the 107th Infantry Regiment - military technician of the 2nd rank Kabarchuk,
    heavy company commander of the 106th motorized rifle regiment - Art. Lieutenant Pavlov,
    the chief of staff of the 108th infantry regiment - Eskevich,
    Assistant Chief of Staff of the 108th Rifle Regiment - Lieutenant Tikhonov,
    the commander of the 36th artillery regiment - Colonel Alferov,
    the chief of staff of the 36th artillery regiment, Major Kozlov,
    artillery battery commander of the 36th artillery regiment - Art. Lieutenant Brekhov,
    beg. dignity of service of the 36th artillery regiment - military doctor of the 3rd rank Shcherbakov,
    platoon commander of the 36th artillery regiment - ml. Lieutenant Zakharov,
    Captain Kuzmenko, commander of the repair and restoration park (RVP) of the 36th separate motorized rifle division,
    repair technician - military technician of the 2nd rank Kirichek,
    repair technician - military technician of the 2nd rank Sokolov,
    the commander of the regimental school is Captain Tsoi-chan-ger,
    Assistant Commander of the Tank Battalion - Captain Makeev,
    platoon commander of the reconnaissance battalion - Lieutenant Kravchenko,
    junior command staff - 11 people, ordinary personnel - 44 people.
    Sent as exposed in belonging to an anti-Soviet military conspiracy:
    division commander - brigade commander Emlin (arrested in the city of Chita),
    Division Chief of Staff - Colonel Edelman,
    Head of the technical division - Major Seleznev,
    the commander of the 108th rifle regiment - Colonel Zamirovsky,
    Assistant Commander of the 36th Artillery Regiment - Major Mukinin,
    Politruk of the 106th Motorized Rifle Regiment - Art. Political instructor Tushima,
    battery commander of the 36th artillery regiment - Art. Lieutenant Semenov,
    chief of service 36th artillery regiment - Ponomarev,
    the head of the club of the 107th Infantry Regiment - Art. Politruk Petrov
    platoon commander of the repair and restoration park - Lieutenant Belikov,
    Commissioner of the 106th Motorized Rifle Regiment - Art. Politruk Petrov
    division commissioner - regimental commissar Sizov,
    the chief of the political department of the division is the battalion commissar of Kherson ... 'and 26 more representatives of the command staff, as well as 217 people of the junior command staff and privates.
  15. Was mammoth
    Was mammoth 1 November 2012 10: 06
    +6
    Soon November 7th. A bucket of mud will pour over our story soon.
  16. tank64rus
    tank64rus 1 November 2012 10: 13
    +5
    Let's see how many are now sitting in Russia, calculate the percentage and recalculate the number of those who were imprisoned under Stalin. Then the numbers will be completely different. It's no secret that the "liberals" who brought crime to power, turned the whole of Russia are to blame for today's rampant crime to the village of Kushchevskaya.
  17. Perch_xnumx
    Perch_xnumx 1 November 2012 10: 23
    -3
    The myth of the Stalinist "great terror" - scribblers.
    No need to align all of Russia under its comb.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XvBoWMZZufE
    1. EropMyxoMop
      EropMyxoMop 1 November 2012 19: 31
      +5
      NTV television channel slap anything would be an order from above.
  18. 8 company
    8 company 1 November 2012 10: 33
    -9
    Modern Dzhugashvili fans are very fond of lying that the Red Army commanders destroyed before the war were entirely executioners of the NKVD or held some worthless posts, so their destruction allegedly did not affect the level of command and control. To refute this lie is quite simple: we go to the site rkka.ru in the Encyclopedia section, see a list of, for example, repressed comkors from the top in alphabetical order:

    Alafuso Mikhail Ivanovich. Rod.1891, chief of staff of the army, district. Arrest. 15.04.1937/13.07.1937/13.07.1937. Sentenced by the VKVS 22.11.1960/XNUMX/XNUMX, inventory: espionage, wrecking and participation in the c. ter.organizations. Shot on XNUMX/XNUMX/XNUMX. Rehabilitated XNUMX/XNUMX/XNUMX.

    Appoga Ernest Fritsevich (Frantsevich, Fridtsevich). Rod.1898, Head of the Military Council of the Red Army. Arrest. 22.05.1937/28.11.1937/28.11.1937. Sentenced by the VKVS of the USSR 18.04.1956/XNUMX/XNUMX in participation in the anti-Soviet military fascist conspiracy and sabotage. Shot on XNUMX/XNUMX/XNUMX. Rehabilitated XNUMX/XNUMX/XNUMX.

    Bazilevich George Dmitrievich. Rod.26.01.1889, com. district troops, arrest. 23.11.1938/2.03.1939/3.03.1939. Sentenced by the VKVS of the USSR on March 27.07.1955, XNUMX in the participation in the fascist military conspiracy. Shot March XNUMX, XNUMX. Rehabilitated XNUMX/XNUMX/XNUMX.

    Batorsky Mikhail Alexandrovich. Rod. 1890, Leningrad; held staff posts, commanded the corps. Arrest. 17.07.1937/7.02.1938/8.02.1938. Sentenced by the VKVS of the USSR on February 24.08.1957, XNUMX in espionage. Shot on XNUMX/XNUMX/XNUMX. Rehabilitated on XNUMX.

    Bogomyagkov Stepan Nikolayevich Komkor (1935), commanded a division, district headquarters, repressed, sentence of the All-Russian Military Council in July 1941. 10 years ITL, released in 1948.

    Cooper George Iosifovich. Rod.1893, commanded a division, the head of the department of management, deputy commissar. Arrest. 25.08.1938/10.03.1939/10.03.1939. Sentenced by the VKVS 25.06.1955/XNUMX/XNUMX, inventory: participation in the c. ter.organizations. Shot March XNUMX, XNUMX. Rehabilitated XNUMX/XNUMX/XNUMX.

    Bryanskikh Petr Alekseevich. Rod. 1896. Passed all command posts from the company to the district troops. Arrest. 19.07.1938/29.08.1938/29.08.1938. Sentenced by the VKVS of the USSR on 9.04.1955/XNUMX/XNUMX in participation in the c. terrorist organization. Shot on XNUMX/XNUMX/XNUMX. Rehabilitated XNUMX/XNUMX/XNUMX.

    Weiner Leonid Yakovlevich (1897-26.11.1937). He commanded a brigade, a corps. 15.08.37/26.11.1937/14.05.55 arrest, sentence of VKVS on XNUMX/XNUMX/XNUMX VMN. Rehabilitated XNUMXg.

    Vasilenko Matvey Ivanovich. Rod.13.11.1888. He commanded the division, deputy commander of the district. Arrest. 18.05.1937/1.07.1937/1.07.1937. Sentenced by the VKVS on 28.11.1956/XNUMX/XNUMX, obv .: participation in the military-thermal conspiracy. Shot on XNUMX/XNUMX/XNUMX. Rehabilitated XNUMX/XNUMX/XNUMX.

    Voskanov Gaspar Karpovich. Rod 09.01.1887 He commanded a division, corps, deputy before OSOVIAHIM. Arrest. 28.05.1937/20.09.1937/20.09.1937. Sentenced by the VKVS 29.12.1956/XNUMX/XNUMX, obv .: anti-Soviet and ter. activity. Shot on September XNUMX, XNUMX. Rehabilitated December XNUMX, XNUMX.

    Guy Gaya Dmitrievich aka Bzhishkyants (Bzhishkyan, Bezhishkyants) .Kin 06.02.1887. He commanded a division, an army, the head of the department of the Frunze Academy. Arrest. 3.07.1935/11.12.1937/11.12.1937. Sentenced by the VKVS of the USSR on December 21.01.1956, XNUMX in participation in an anti-Soviet terrorist organization. Shot on December XNUMX, XNUMX. Rehabilitated January XNUMX, XNUMX.

    Gailit (Gailitis) Yan Petrovich. Rod. 1894. He commanded a division, corps, district. Arrest. 15.08.1937/1.08.1938/1.08.1938. Sentenced by the VKVS of the USSR on 26.11.1956/XNUMX/XNUMX in espionage and participation in the c. organization. Shot on XNUMX/XNUMX/XNUMX. Rehabilitated XNUMX/XNUMX/XNUMX.

    Garkavy Ilya Ivanovich (19.7.1888-1.7.1937) He commanded a division, corps, 1935-1937 commander of the Ural Military District. The arrest of 11.03.1937/01.07.1937/12.12.1956, the sentence of the VKVS XNUMX/XNUMX/XNUMX VMN, rehabilitated XNUMX/XNUMX/XNUMX ...
    and many others…

    As can be seen from the list, at least 90% of military commanders who died from Stalinist repressions (or rare survivors in the camps) had real experience in managing military formations.
    1. klimpopov
      klimpopov 1 November 2012 11: 00
      +4
      Guy Gaya Dmitrievich
      From Moscow Butyrka, where Guy was interrogated on charges of “creating a fascist military organization in the Red Army”, he wrote to the USSR Interior Minister, Heinrich Yagoda:
      “He committed a very serious, terrible crime against the party - comrade. Stalin, having drunk, said in a private conversation with the non-partisan party that “it is necessary to remove Stalin, they will remove him anyway” ... It’s hard for me to repeat here again the nature and content of the conversation, the details of the investigation are known. I didn’t commit this terrible crime because I am a counterrevolutionary or an oppositionist, because I do not share the general line of the party or were members of anti-party organizations and waged an underground struggle with the party. No, not because of this, I am reporting this to you quite honestly, this can be proved by the whole sum of my past socio-political and military work ... I committed this heinous crime under the influence of two main factors: a) under the influence of personal dissatisfaction with my public position and position and b) under the influence of anti-Party conversations with some Bolsheviks close to me (even the "old" Bolsheviks), whose names are known to the investigation. Surnames of some anti-Party ladies of Comrade. Molchanov. Under the influence of these factors, I began to roll on the path of double-dealing. True, he said, wrote, advocated (and very often) for Comrade Stalin, but I could finally overcome the influence of my comrades, the influence of a whispering environment. And all this broke out at the address of the leader of the party, at the address of Comrade. Stalin, in such a vile form and words. ”
      Ie there were still conversations?

      Well, so for thought
      Since we are talking about specific personalities.
      “The circumstances of the escape, according to the testimony of the commissioner of the operational detachment questioned by us, the Red Army soldiers Ryazanov, Vasiliev and Sereda, are as follows:
      On the way to Guy, Guy asked twice for the restroom. The first time, about an hour after leaving Moscow, he was accompanied by Ryazanov and the Red Army Sereda in compliance with the guard duty regulations. The second time Guy asked to go to the restroom before reaching the Berendeevo station. After the train left the Berendeevo station at 22 for 35 hours, he was taken to the restroom by Ryazanov and Vasiliev, this time in violation of the guard service: none of Guy's escort stood on the foot of the wagon to observe the lavatory window, and both watched in the wagon ...
      According to Vasilyev’s testimony, Guy, after setting, standing by the washbasin, suddenly breaking two glasses with a shoulder blow and knocking out part of the window frame, jumped out of the window with his body forward ...
      The searches undertaken by Ryazanov and Vasiliev at the escape site yielded nothing, Guy was not found. "

      Guy, in my opinion, is a very interesting figure, and of course you can’t put his fate in one comment.
    2. Prophetic
      Prophetic 7 November 2012 18: 19
      0
      Modern Dzhugashvili fans are very fond of lying that the Red Army commanders destroyed before the war were entirely executioners of the NKVD
      These fans are a figment of your sick imagination. But the fact that modern liberoids constantly lie both about the scale of the repressions, and that only repressions led to the tragedy of 1941 is a medical fact. It is also a Medinzynian fact that you, my nearby friend, do not know how to think. Having a high position and having military experience are two big differences. You have modestly ignored the fact that even in the small list that you cited, more than half are Jews. And this is no coincidence. The Red Army was created by Trotsky. And he placed his fellow tribesmen in leadership positions. And not at all on the basis of military talents, but on the basis of personal loyalty and party affiliation. Stalin repressed them as Trotsky's people, all in a crowd. Also, you are modestly silent about the fact that many of them (about 30%) were RETURNED before the war and immediately after it began. The same Gorbatov, eg. In total, more than 30.000 complaints from dismissed commanders were considered, and more than 11000 of them RETURNED to duty. Also, you forget to mention that Stalin did not decapitate the army, but REPLACED one for another. I replaced Trotsky's people, who were appointed according to the party-national principle, with people with REAL combat experience. So, the entire top of the Red Army, the repressed Gamarnik (member of the party since 1916), Primakov (c1914), Uborevich (from 1918), Yakir (from 17g), Fedko (c17) did not participate in the First World War, that is, they did not have had. As well as MILITARY EDUCATION. But they had experience in suppressing peasant uprisings, like the Tukhachesky, or the destruction of the Cossacks, like the Jew Yakir. These guys were moving along the political line. So, Gamarnik, He began with the 1st rank commissar in 1918, then the secretary of the Revolutionary Military Council, then the beginning. political department of the Red Army etc. Our "red Bonaparte" - Tukhachesky - the only one from the top of the Red Army who had a military education - ensign wink, was captured and spent the whole war in the German rear. And to whom did Stalin replace them? On Vasilevsky, Zhukov, Konev, Tolbukhin, Rokosovsky and Malinovsky. ALL of them went through the whole war from a simple soldier. Malinovsky, he generally fled to the front in 15 years and went through the whole war as the son of a regiment. All of them advanced not on the party line, but on the military. So Vasilevsky and Tolbukhin became party members only in 1938 !!! !!! (feel the difference) already holding large posts in the army.
      You also "forgot" to mention that many of those arrested did not have a higher military academic education at all, but the newly appointed had it. So, for example, ALL arrested in 1937 early. the headquarters of the districts did not have it, and out of 10 appointed 4 did. In general, the growth in the number of people with a higher military education before the Second World War has no equal in the history of Russia. As well as the growth of the army and military infrastructure in general. Prepared like mad. And it is not their fault that no one in the world could stop the German car in 1941. Except for the Russians ...
  19. s1н7т
    s1н7т 1 November 2012 10: 41
    +10
    "The myth of Stalin's 'great terror' is part of the information war against Russia."
    The author is well done!
    It is only necessary to add that de-Stalinization is aimed at revising the results of the Great Patriotic War, i.e. the final "lowering" of the Russian Federation to the plinth! And then - a gradual collapse on a national basis. I suspect that ideas like "Russians unite" are of the same plan as Tatar nationalism in Kazan - made in YSA. Russia separately, Tatarstan in itself, great Udmurtia, free Yakutia, etc. That is how by distorting history you can change the future. So the war continues!
  20. 8 company
    8 company 1 November 2012 10: 49
    -11
    Let us remember the defense industry experts who died during the years of the Stalinist terror:
    From 1937 to 1941 were shot: Nikolai Mikhailovich Kharlamov, head of TsAGI; Vasily Ivanovich Chekalov, head of the 8th department of TsAGI; Evgeny Mikhailovich Furmanov, deputy head of the training department of TsAGI; Kirill Alexandrovich Inyushin, Deputy Head of the Planning and Technical Department of Plant No. 156; Georgy Nikitovich Korolev, Director of Plant No. 26; Andrei Makarovich Broom, Head of the 2nd Division of the 1st Main Directorate of the NKOP. Aircraft designer K.A. Kalinin, one of the founders of the Kharkov aircraft factory, designer of K-series aircraft, was shot in October 1938. A jet research institute: Kleimenov and Langemak were shot, Luzhin died in the camp. Submarine designers Starchik, Turkov and Schukin were shot in 1938. Constructor Taubin Yakov Grigorievich, developed an automatic easel grenade launcher, 23 mm cannon cannon, shot in 1941. The chief designer of the Soviet self-propelled guns Syachintov was shot in May 1937., one of the creators of the howitzer B-4 Magd - in the same year. The head of the department of tanks and tractors of the Military Academy of Mechanization and Motorization of the Red Army, non-partisan professor V.I. Zaslavsky, the author of the first Russian book on tanks, was shot in 1937 ... and many others ...
    1. bagira
      bagira 1 November 2012 11: 05
      +5
      That's just for this comrade Yezhov and his team were sentenced to capital punishment
      1. Alekseev
        Alekseev 1 November 2012 12: 42
        +3
        Innocently repressed is undoubtedly a tragedy ... Let it be 3 million (three million!), Not 30. God forbid anyone to fall into this number.
        But who is to blame? Stalin, of course, yes.
        And what about the repressed in these years?
        True, they fought to the end with the Bolsheviks in the troops of General Denikin?
        Do not break the oath to the king? Not mocking the faith?
        Not burned and robbed, in the worst traditions of history, manors?
        Clearly, they did it ... But what to take from them? This situation was ... request
        The misfortunes that befell the Russian and other peoples in the 20th century are ultimately to blame for themselves. Stalin and his relatives are only a visible reflection of the punishment, the path to which, unfortunately, the majority of the people chose in 1917.
        1. bagira
          bagira 1 November 2012 12: 53
          +1
          Quote: Alekseev
          Innocently repressed is undoubtedly a tragedy ... Let it be 3 million (three million!), Not 30. God forbid anyone to fall into this number.
          But who is to blame? Stalin, of course, yes.


          The thing is that Stalin himself could easily become an innocent victim of repression
  21. fantast
    1 November 2012 11: 46
    +12
    Medvedev on Stalin and the Great Patriotic War:


    And here is a small comparison:
    1. mark021105
      mark021105 1 November 2012 12: 41
      +4
      TipA in the photo above and to the right has an inferiority complex since childhood, probably, which then developed into the Napoleon complex ...
  22. Perch_xnumx
    Perch_xnumx 1 November 2012 12: 15
    -3

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=YFaBoqmsh8I
    Butovo landfill
  23. jimm RAINOR
    jimm RAINOR 1 November 2012 12: 37
    +5
    ZAVET,

    In no way do I want to desecrate the memory of your ancestors who died of starvation ....
    But I have only one question .... And where did the food taken from the peasants go ... If to the cities ... to feed the all-Union racks and factories ... then it turns out that you don’t take from the peasants .... they will starve to the cities and all that is connected with them ... and hunger would be in another place ... and then now you would not be cursing ... but the descendants of the townspeople who died of starvation ....

    The hunger was terrible ... No questions .... A solution was also found ... The management set priorities .... taking into account its goals .... (in my opinion, nothing has changed so far) ... I'm not going to whitewash and call angels .... but in my opinion
    firstly, not everything is so simple ...
    secondly, of two evils which do not choose one damn damned later ...
    thirdly, Stalin (Dzhugashvili) did not possess during the famine unlimited power .....
    and the fourth at that time, in addition to Stalin, there were still a lot of different leaders who depicted a scene from the fable Once Lebed Cancer and Shchuk ..... (Tukhachevsky, for example, proposed back in the 30s to expand the military industry on such a colossal scale and remove it for this millions of peasants have sat down ... that no collectivization and industrialization has ever dreamed of such a scale)

    PS I’ll add on my own ... My grandfather, along with his great-grandfather, plowed on the Belomorkanal like a fist and his eldest son .... And they said only one thing about Stalin, and in one case: If there was Stalin .... There would be order ... .
    It’s not for us to judge their beliefs ... but you cannot change the fact (I am a witness to this)

    Quote: Company 8
    As can be seen from the list, at least 90% of military commanders who died from Stalinist repressions (or rare survivors in the camps) had real experience in managing military formations.


    Well, for example, those who participated in an officer conspiracy against Hitler in 1944 .... They generally had enormous experience in conducting military operations (Rommel alone is worth something) ... and this is all at a time when the Red Army is already conducting quite successful military operations against Hitler Germany))))
    1. Perch_xnumx
      Perch_xnumx 1 November 2012 12: 56
      -11
      But I have only one question .... And where did the food taken from the peasants go ... If to the cities ... to feed the all-Union racks and factories ... then it turns out that you don’t take from the peasants .... they will starve to the cities and all that is connected with them ... and hunger would be in another place ... and then you would not be cursing now ... but the descendants of the townspeople who died of hunger
      Patriot - Homeland is calling. Homeland needs your savings, an apartment, a car, clothes, property. All this will go to the rise of the army, production, industry and agriculture. It is enough for a patriot to have a house in the village - the village is dying out, a shovel and a piece of land for food, burn to the collective farm. There is nothing to be compared to the bourgeoisie and go on vacation, you need to rest at home after work on the collective farm.
      it turns out that you don’t take from the peasants .... the cities and everything connected with them will begin to starve
      And why bother to select. The villagers fed the country during the New Economic Policy and there was no famine. All over the world, people worked in the agricultural sector — they fed the country, and under Stalin the collective farms could not.
      There would be Stalin .... There would be order
      Was there an order? Innovators and inventors sat, the designer sat. Korolev Sat, Rokosovsky knocked out his teeth, it’s good that they didn’t shoot him. Was the order during the Finnish? Was the order on the eve of the war? The Germans calmly engaged in reconnaissance in the border zone, German planes were shooting, calmly concentrated the troops, calmly hit. The Soviet commanders were afraid to say a word about the war, whoever says that the enemy of the people is the SPY, until the last moment no one has done anything - this is order. What order was in the first months of the war? Panic and washed pants of the supreme and great. Thank God that the Goth and Guderian deployed 41 tanks to Ukraine in the summer and did not take Moscow. Thank God that Paulus stormed Stalingrad, which was not necessary in principle, and did not transfer tanks to the Caucasus, and did not capture the oil-bearing Azerbaijan, the tank and did not cut off oil from the USSR.
  24. jimm RAINOR
    jimm RAINOR 1 November 2012 13: 02
    +7
    Quote: Perch_1
    Thank God that the Goth and Guderian deployed 41 tanks to Ukraine in the summer and did not take Moscow. Thank God that Paulus stormed Stalingrad, which was not necessary in principle, and did not transfer tanks to the Caucasus, and did not capture the oil-bearing Azerbaijan, the tank and did not cut off oil from the USSR.


    So do you think that it was not in the Red Army that there were mediocre commanders but among the Germans? if they behaved stupidly in the war ... ????

    Well, for example, would Goth and Guderian take Moscow and not Ukraine? So what? In Ukraine, resources ... and in Moscow, the Tretyakov Gallery and the Kremlin .... The factories bye bye ... left .... Napoleon also took Moscow .... sat and sat .... sent 3 times to Alexander I ambassadors with a proposal to make peace, but he ignored it ... So Napoleon went home ..... So Goth and Guderian would definitely go there ... But Ukraine with its resources was much more important .....

    And the fact that if the Germans had rushed right away to Baku, they could have found themselves in a very interesting situation with cut off supply lines ..... and then would have taken them warm right in the oil field .... with oil but without shells ....
    1. Perch_xnumx
      Perch_xnumx 1 November 2012 13: 11
      -12
      So do you think that it was not in the Red Army that there were mediocre commanders but among the Germans? if they behaved stupidly in the war ... ????
      The Germans had a genius of Hitler, he helped German generals a lot, if it weren’t for him to know what would have happened. However, all this is for the good. And here Napoleon, definitely ....... Moscow - was a symbol of the country, its capture would hit the morale of the army, which was lower than the plinth in those months. In Ukraine, the same troops were, and did not cost anything after the quick capture of Moscow to transfer forces there.
      1. Karish
        Karish 1 November 2012 13: 18
        +6
        Quote: Perch_1
        The Germans had Hitler’s genius, he helped German generals a lot, if it weren’t for him to know what would have been

        Did you go completely? There would be no Hitler, there would be no war, millions of victims and Khatyn your whole would remain. .... Hitler's genius - to shoot people like you fool (and parents the same, for such an upbringing)
        1. Perch_xnumx
          Perch_xnumx 1 November 2012 13: 35
          -12
          "Hitler's genius" is more understandable, in parentheses. Hitler was like Stalin, and that's a fact. If it were not for Mr. and S. maybe nothing would have happened at all.
          1. ikrut
            ikrut 2 November 2012 01: 13
            +2
            What grade are you in? Tell your history teacher that he is not busy with his business.
      2. grizzlir
        grizzlir 1 November 2012 13: 35
        +8
        Quote: Perch_1
        The Germans had Hitler’s genius, he helped German generals a lot,
        I only heard this from the Nazis who were over. If Hitler were a genius, he wouldn’t oppose the USSR, but would try to strengthen relations with us. Hitler might not have completely sunk down from easy victories, but he already felt himself the ruler of the whole world. some generals of his headquarters were just trying to remind him of the fate of Napoleon.
      3. ikrut
        ikrut 2 November 2012 01: 11
        +2
        "History knows no subjunctive mood." Don't you know this catch phrase?
        If only, if only ...
        Such "if only ..." you can compose a fucking thing. Kindergarten of some kind. Are you smarter than Hitler, Guderian, Manstein and Paulus in bulk? And if in 41 near Brody it was possible to establish communication and interaction between our tank formations? And if the troops were withdrawn from the Kharkov cauldron in time and the Germans were encircled?
        Well, your Leningrad was not taken, although no one interfered with Leeb.
        What stood near Odessa and Sevastopol so much?
        Let the Poles thank God that they left them on earth, and even better - Stalin. He played the main role here ..
  25. jimm RAINOR
    jimm RAINOR 1 November 2012 13: 19
    +6
    Quote: Perch_1
    And why bother to select. The villagers fed the country during the New Economic Policy and there was no famine. All over the world, people worked in the agricultural sector — they fed the country, and under Stalin the collective farms could not.


    Well, during the NEP that factories were built strongly? Agriculture was developing ... trade flourished .... but industrialization did not smell .... But it smelled of thriving capitalism that would lead to the fragmentation of the whole state ... (90s doesn’t remind you? falling apart)

    Perch_xnumx,

    That is, according to your words, it was no longer the German generals who were punctured ... but directly the "genius of Hitler" ... but you, my friend, turns out to be the Great Strategist .... who was late by 70 to the beginning of the war ....

    You remind me of my Belarusian opposition .... rush and shout Lukashenko -k ... l ... this is please .... but more N-I-H-E-G-O)))
    1. Perch_xnumx
      Perch_xnumx 1 November 2012 13: 47
      -14
      NEP 3 years how much industrialization. And that as a result of the BT and T tank, the I - 16 fighter, a one and a half lorry, the SB bomber, the Mosin rifle, neither high-quality ammunition for the anti-tank gun, nor a new machine gun, nor normal welding machines, nor modern (at the German level) metalworking machines. The most prominent scientists and designers were sent to torture chambers and camps, for the denunciations of loafers, mediocrity and envious people, this greatly moved the industry forward. Who mastered Siberia, who snouted the White Canal - free suicide bombers.

      You wait, when people will have nothing to eat then and the opposition will not be needed. We analyze just the facts. directly Mr. ordered tanks to deploy to Ukraine - Guderian was against, Mr. ordered to take Stalingrad - although the generals offered to get around and concentrate in the Caucasus, Mr. insisted on the operation of the citadel - although the generals were against. And if not for a genius with. Before and at the beginning of the war, which decided everything alone, such grave consequences might not have happened at all. Whatever misunderstandings - Hitler - not a man, a fanatic, a sadist, like his like-minded people, without but if, etc. - point
      1. ikrut
        ikrut 2 November 2012 01: 23
        +2
        Guderian, first of all, in 41 did not mind. Because he did not mind Hitler. He became "against" in fact. In my memories.
        Secondly, for each major operation, there were different opinions among the generals (both the Germans and us). And those who were more convincing won. Read about it with the same Guderian. Is Stalingrad and the Citadel your prosra? that the German strategy was not correct, but because ours turned out to be smarter and stronger. And in the Caucasus it would be the same. Only much worse. Hitler started Stalingrad because he well understood his vulnerability in the Caucasian bag. miraculously managed to get off.
  26. 8 company
    8 company 1 November 2012 13: 20
    -12
    Let us remember the honest employees of the NKVD, who protested against massive illegal repressions, the massive use of torture, sanctioned by the Politburo. The agencies that carried out the repressions themselves suffered from repression in percentage terms much more than other state structures. After all, different people served there, and not only quite often immoral personalities, ready to "cook" the documents of the investigation in the right angle and to torture those under investigation. Already under investigation, the former People's Commissar N. Ezhov said: "I cleaned 14 security officers, but my great fault is that I cleaned them a little. There were enemies everywhere ..."
    July 16-17, 1937 a meeting was held in Moscow to discuss the details of the upcoming operation. We are talking about the order of the NKVD 00447. At the meeting, Yezhov began to name the approximate figures for the alleged presence of "enemies of the people" in the edges and regions that are subject to arrest and destruction. “Hearing these numbers,” writes Styrne, “all those present died out. The meeting was attended by old, experienced Chekists who had excellent agents and were well aware of the actual state of affairs. They could not believe in reality and any validity of the named numbers.
    “You must never forget,” Yezhov recalled at the end of his speech, “that I not only became a people's commissar, but also a Secretary of the Central Committee. Comrade Stalin trusted me and granted me all the necessary powers. So from here and draw the appropriate conclusions for yourself.
    When Yezhov finished, dead silence reigned in the hall. Everyone froze in their places, not knowing how to react to such proposals and threats of Yezhov. Suddenly, the plenipotentiary representative of the OKVD of the Omsk Region, the oldest counterintelligence Salyn, got up.
    “I declare with all responsibility,” Salyn said calmly and decisively, “that in the Omsk Region there are no similar number of enemies of the people and Trotskyites. And in general, I consider it completely unacceptable to plan in advance the number of people subject to arrest and execution.
    - Here is the first enemy who revealed himself! - Abruptly cutting off Salynya, shouted Yezhov. And he immediately summoned the commandant, ordering the arrest of Salyn. The rest of the participants in the meeting were completely suppressed by everything that happened, and no one else dared to object to Yezhov. '
    Salyn was not alone, there were NKVD officers who wrote letters to the People’s Commissariat about the arbitrariness that was happening, but their fate was the same - they were destroyed. And after Beria came to the People’s Commissariat, they cleaned up all those who organized the repressions under Yezhov, and thus the arrows were transferred to them. Say, they overdid it, they didn’t understand it, well, and the enemies got there, how could it be without it. Apparently, it is worth recalling that they did exactly the same with Yagoda and his people, who organized mass repressions in front of Yezhov.
    The total number of employees of the NKVD-OGPU-MGB bodies repressed under Stalin is, according to various estimates, 20-22 thousand people.
    1. Vlaleks48
      Vlaleks48 1 November 2012 19: 24
      +1
      Marshal "Jolly Roger"!
      At the same time, provide the national composition of repressed honest employees of the GPU and the NKVD.
  27. jimm RAINOR
    jimm RAINOR 1 November 2012 13: 41
    +13
    Karish,

    Yes, what upbringing is there ....

    By the way, Khatyn is not his but rather mine .. (he is from Poland and I am from Belarus) ... but this is a trifle ....

    And to shoot it is too inhumane ..... I offer all the same uranium mines ...

    8 company

    Well, fellow countryman, I'm sorry for the expression "forgotten" with the conclusion .....

    That is, it’s not Yezhov who is to blame for the terror, but Beria and Stalin who simply turned arrows on him .... and nothing else .... Sorry, but it smells like adjusting facts to a hypothesis .... rather than putting forward hypotheses based on facts .... .

    Perch_xnumx,

    Hmm ... and then also the T-34 and IS-2 tank ... the Il-2 attack aircraft and the Yak-9 fighter ... literally in a couple of years ...
    I’ll tell you as an engineer .... in order to do something good ... you must first accumulate experience and knowledge ... and then something will happen ....
    I have one friend ... who has served 10 years ... so you know what he said .... I quote ... "If someone tells you that he was in prison for nothing ..... don't believe him ... ... there are no innocent people .... "....


    And about the NEP ... maybe it’s good that 3 years ... (they didn’t sell the whole country) .... there were 90 years in the 10s .... so I’m generally surprised that the population was not sold into slavery for this period))))
    1. Perch_xnumx
      Perch_xnumx 1 November 2012 14: 09
      -7
      And to shoot it is too inhumane ..... I offer all the same uranium mines ...
      You think the shooting is the end of everything. Maybe we’ll personally sign up for the firing squad - killing people for an idea is not so simple. Ready for a humane Belarusian? I don’t admire, quite the contrary, just like Stalin, how people’s suffering, death and tears can be justified, people like me, I see the hand of God, which deprived him of his mind at the right time for people. It will be scary here, on this earth, when the wrath of God comes, the apocalypse begins, very soon, maybe you will see everything yourself. There will be death, tears and sorrow, which from the beginning of the world did not exist. If the first world perishes in water, the second world will burn in fire.
      1. s1н7т
        s1н7т 1 November 2012 20: 35
        0
        Quote: Perch_1
        I see the hand of God, which deprived his mind at the right time for people. It will be scary here on this earth, when the wrath of God comes, the apocalypse begins, very soon


        Pi-pets! What to talk to him about ?! This is crazy! Even as a clown can not be considered - "it is sinful to laugh at sick people" (c)
      2. ikrut
        ikrut 2 November 2012 01: 37
        +2
        Shooting is not really the best choice. But that is understandable.
        But tell me - why do Poles hate Russia and Russians so much? Although we have put 600000 of our soldiers in Poland. "For your freedom and ours." And repression was not arranged there, it seems. And I.V. The Poles should have bowed to Stalin at the feet both for the country they have preserved and for the new territories. And you do not honor him. In vain it. Not grateful and noble. After all, Jesus taught you too: "Love your enemies, do good to those who hate you, bless those who curse you and pray for those who offend you ..." (Luke 6-27,28)
        You are Catholics. Must believe Jesus.
  28. Dimych
    Dimych 1 November 2012 14: 09
    +5
    Quote: Perch_1
    Thank God that the Goth and Guderian deployed 41 tanks to Ukraine in the summer and did not take Moscow

    Unlike you, Guderian and Goth understood that storming Moscow, leaving virtually behind their back the capable and thousands-strong Kiev KA group of deaths, is similar. About Stalingrad is even more interesting. Paulus stormed what he was ordered to. Unauthorized to deploy tanks in the Caucasus is tantamount to immediately throwing a bullet in the forehead for not fulfilling the order. And then, deploying such a colossus as the 6th Army is not as simple as drawing an arrow on the map. By the way, the Germans stormed the Caucasus and Astrakhan, only strength was not enough. More precisely, their strength was much greater.
    1. Perch_xnumx
      Perch_xnumx 1 November 2012 14: 18
      -2
      On August 18, Franz Halder, Chief of the General Staff of the German Army, presented to Adolf Hitler a plan to strike at Moscow with the forces of Army Group Center. [4] [8] However, on August 20, Hitler sharply rejected this proposal and on August 21 signed a directive according to which part of the forces of Army Group Center should turn south in order to encircle and destroy the South-Western Front of Soviet troops together with Army Group South. [ 4] [8] [9] [10] The directive determined that “the most important task before the onset of winter is not the capture of Moscow, but the capture of Crimea, industrial and coal regions on the Donets River and blocking the route for Russian oil to transport from the Caucasus.” [9] [10] On August 23, Halder personally delivered this directive to the headquarters of Army Group Center, where it was met with disapproval, especially the commander of the 2nd Panzer Group, Heinz Guderian. [8] On the same day, Guderian flew to Hitler’s headquarters, where he tried to convince him of the need to attack Moscow, [8] however Guderian did not succeed. On August 24, Guderian arrived at his command post to lead the offensive south. [8]
      1. Perch_xnumx
        Perch_xnumx 1 November 2012 14: 25
        -2
        From the book of Guderian
        Hitler gave his permission, and I detailed and convincingly told him everything
        arguments for continuing the offensive on Moscow, not on
        Kiev. I expressed my opinion to him that from a military point of view now
        the point is to completely destroy the armed forces of the enemy,
        which in recent battles suffered significant losses. I outlined to him
        geographical location of the capital of Russia, which to a large extent
        different from other capitals, such as Paris, and is the center of the paths
        communications and communications, the political and most important industrial center of the country;
        the capture of Moscow will greatly affect the morale of the Russian people, and
        also to the whole world. I drew his attention to the fact that the troops are set up
        attack Moscow and that all preparations in this direction meet with
        a great delight.
        I tried to explain to Hitler that after achieving military success on
        decisive direction and defeat of the main enemy forces will be significantly
        it is easier to master economically important regions of Ukraine, since the capture of Moscow
        - the junction of the most important roads - it will be extremely difficult for Russians to transfer their
        troops from north to south. I also reminded him that the troops of Army Group Center
        already in full combat readiness to go on the offensive on
        Moscow, while the alleged attack on Kiev is associated with
        the need to deploy troops to the southwest, which will take
        a lot of time; and subsequently, when attacking Moscow, tank
        troops will have to go again the same distance, i.e. from Roslavl to
        Lokhvitsy, equal to 450 km, which will cause repeated wear of the material part \ 271 \
        and fatigue of personnel. On the experience of the movement of our troops in the direction
        on Unecha I outlined to him the condition of the roads in the area indicated to me for
        the transfer of his troops, and drew his attention to those difficulties in organizing
        supplies, which inevitably will have to increase every day, if
        we are turned to Ukraine.
        Finally, I pointed out the grave consequences that must arise in
        if operations in the south drag out, especially due to bad weather. Then
        it will be too late to deliver a decisive blow to the enemy in the direction of Moscow in
        this year. In conclusion, I asked Hitler to push back
        all other considerations, subordinating them primarily to the solution of the main problem
        - achieving decisive military success. All other tasks will be
        resolved subsequently.
        Hitler gave me the opportunity to speak, without interrupting even once. Then he
        took the floor to expound us his thoughts on
        why he came to another decision. He stressed that commodity
        Ukraine's resources and food are vital for
        continuation of the war. In this regard, he mentioned the need to master
        Crimea, which is the "aircraft carrier of the Soviet Union in its struggle against
        Romanian oil. ”I first heard the phrase from him:“ My generals have nothing
        understand in the war economy. "
  29. jimm RAINOR
    jimm RAINOR 1 November 2012 14: 17
    +2
    Quote: Perch_1
    You think the shooting is the end of everything. Maybe we’ll personally sign up for the firing squad - killing people for an idea is not so simple. Ready for a humane Belarusian? I don’t admire, quite the contrary, just like Stalin, how people’s suffering, death and tears can be justified, people like me, I see the hand of God, which deprived him of his mind at the right time for people. It will be scary here, on this earth, when the wrath of God comes, the apocalypse begins, very soon, maybe you will see everything yourself. There will be death, tears and sorrow, which from the beginning of the world did not exist. If the first world perishes in water, the second world will burn in fire.


    If ... yes, if only .....
    And if Peter the Great had not been born, the Romanovs would not have existed ... and there would have been no one to shoot .... And the revolution would not have happened ...

    And Stalin would not be .... and repression .... so maybe Peter I will spread rot .....

    Here's a brief excursion into the structure of your arguments ..... I hope everything is clear))))

    Quote: Perch_1
    rus? I don’t admire Mr., quite the contrary, ditch


    Oh damn, one more broadcaster-broadcaster showed up .... just so right away behind God’s back so that I wouldn’t hide but the Hand of the Lord ...
    1. Perch_xnumx
      Perch_xnumx 1 November 2012 14: 30
      -4
      Not understood. I have to do with it, nothing depends on me. Depends on you and your descendants as well. Whatever you imagine, the end is inevitable, because people are stubborn, proud and heartless towards other people and thus go to their terrible ending.
      Remember the engineer behind the back of God will not hide from his actions, for all the answer you will have to keep yourself.
    2. ikrut
      ikrut 2 November 2012 01: 42
      +2
      Here it’s not even necessary to start with Peter, but with Mikhail Romanov. He was first seated on the throne after the expulsion of the Poles from Moscow.
    3. Val_y
      Val_y 7 November 2012 17: 10
      0
      Peter 1 is not the first Romanov. Teach my friend materiel fool
  30. Stary oper
    Stary oper 1 November 2012 14: 36
    +1
    The point is that each side builds its evidence base on a certain set of "axioms". Let's try to consider them. How do Stalin's supporters argue their position? The first is the industrialization of the country. The second is his role in the Great Patriotic War. Third, the restoration of the country in the post-war period, the creation of a power that plays an important role in the world arena. Fourth, in those conditions, the solution of such large-scale tasks was impossible without the adoption of tough, and sometimes cruel (and they are ready to partially admit this) measures. And finally, the last - Stalin's opponents are not the country's patriots, playing into the hands of ideological opponents in denigrating our history in particular and the socialist system as a whole.
    Now let's consider the system of "axioms" of Stalin's opponents. It practically boils down to one thing - no great goals can justify the physical destruction of dissent in the party, the destruction of representatives of entire classes (peasantry, Cossacks, nobles, priests), mass famine (at least two), repression in the Red Army, which could not not affect the results of the initial stage of the war, despite the power of the German military machine. They do not want to accept a system based on denunciations and by this very much reminiscent of the system of Nazi Germany, the deportation of many peoples. Evaluating those times, people involuntarily project (and this is understandable, against the background of the nostalgia of his supporters for a strong hand) that system onto themselves and their loved ones.
    Can they be accused of unpatriotism? Does the word "patriot" mean an uncritical perception of the history of his country?
    And this situation is just not one of those about which they say that "the truth lies somewhere in the middle." For supporters assess that time from the standpoint of the material (built factories, cities, dams and the fact that the end justifies the means), and opponents from the moral and ethical point of view. At the same time, considering (I think, not without reason) that slave labor (which was essentially on collective farms, in "sharashki", prison labor) does not apply to productive labor.
    Therefore, all these disputes, in essence, are as endless (if we continue to warm up this topic), as well as futile. Unless in terms of recruiting supporters.
    1. s1н7т
      s1н7т 1 November 2012 20: 47
      +2
      Blah blah blah ... All in a heap. And the smart conclusion laughing
    2. ikrut
      ikrut 2 November 2012 01: 44
      +2
      But is the recruitment of supporters of small worth ???? wink
      1. Stary oper
        Stary oper 2 November 2012 20: 28
        +1
        ikrut
        I don’t think that much, considering that the site is not one of the most visited. This is the first. The second one. There are not so many young people here. And people who are, let’s say so over forty, already with a long-formed worldview and with their own point of view.
  31. jimm RAINOR
    jimm RAINOR 1 November 2012 14: 41
    +3
    Perch_xnumx,

    Well, why did you hang out ... about the end of the world ... about the first world about the second .... preacher damn .... I just don’t hide .. and I don’t broadcast with jagged words .... which are not myself I came up with it, but I’ve got it in my jaw .... They still shook my finger at me and lost my eyes .... I found a moral ideal .... If nothing depends on you ... well, then you’re full-blown L .. X writhing as a humanist -Moralist ..... and no more ... You go better in your prosperous Europe to some gay parade .... there are a whole parade of such humanists ... sorry for the taftalogy))))
    1. Perch_xnumx
      Perch_xnumx 1 November 2012 14: 58
      -2
      Not understood. From what I hide and how. That's all, the fate of the world does not depend on me. So aren't you yourself behind the Internet fence. Or do not weakly put here your name, surname, address and phone. Well, if I’m L..X, but you don’t, can you tell me a list of my achievements for the benefit of the Belarusian motherland, yours personally. I am writing where I want, and what I consider necessary, I live where I consider it necessary and do not care if you don’t like it, you can poke in the arrows, just shoot and the uranium mine has not yet grown up, like the children actually))). And in the West, by the way, there are many normal people, not homosexual, with a normal head, working from bell to bell, serious and businesslike.
      1. jimm RAINOR
        jimm RAINOR 1 November 2012 17: 58
        +1
        Quote: Perch_1
        tears, people like me, I see the hand of God, which deprived his mind at the right time for people. It will be scary here, on this earth, when the wrath of God comes, the apocalypse begins, very soon, you can see everything for yourself. There will be death, tears and sorrow, which from the beginning of the world did not exist. If the first world perishes in water, the second world will burn in fire.

        Quote: Perch_1
        Not understood. I have to do with it, nothing depends on me. Depends on you and your descendants as well. Whatever you imagine, the end is inevitable, because people are stubborn, proud and heartless towards other people and thus go to their terrible ending.
        Remember the engineer behind the back of God will not hide from his actions, for all the answer you will have to keep yourself.


        Well, you’re broadcasting a lot .... (see above) .... About morality, at the Hand of God, about tragedies, about tears ....
        As for what I’m hiding from ... Yes, you yourself wrote that nothing depends on you ... that is, all your idle talk ... this is idle talk ... it’s a little excuse that you are a small person and nothing depends on you ... Well, if it’s a little sit and don’t fon ..... and don’t sing that sentimental nonsense .... Do you want world peace and love for your neighbor ... Go to Tibet ... although I’m afraid there is waiting for you disappointment....


        As for the businesslike and serious people in the West ... I do not argue ... but however, only homosexuals are running around in their streets ... and we are dumb ... they may even shake their faces ... So it turns out that serious and business people sit on the principle "my house is on the edge" they pay money and okay they are busy people they have no time to look at anything except work ....))))
        1. Perch_xnumx
          Perch_xnumx 1 November 2012 18: 14
          -2
          Probably valuable guidance is better for yourself to save, I myself somehow. What depends on me I will try to do.
  32. grizzlir
    grizzlir 1 November 2012 14: 42
    0
    history will judge
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=03X3c9ihGLk&playnext=1&list=PLCD1BF
    0F7BDDAA7F1 & feature = results_main]
  33. FunkschNNX
    FunkschNNX 1 November 2012 14: 52
    +6
    I personally observe liberals only on TV. I haven’t met a single one yet! From this I conclude: their number is negligible compared to normal people, but it’s not clear where so much stink from such a small pile of shit comes from.
    1. Perch_xnumx
      Perch_xnumx 1 November 2012 15: 02
      -6
      Such profound conclusions were drawn based on the fact that someone despises Stalin. Anyone who sits on the ass, and stupidly silent, watching that around and waiting for Stalin, he may be worse than a liberal.
      1. s1н7т
        s1н7т 1 November 2012 20: 58
        +1
        Quote: Perch_1
        The one who sits on the ass, and stupidly silent, watching that around and waiting for Stalin, he may be worse than a liberal

        And here - right. I will support. Maybe you, sir, are not completely missing? laughing
        Why is the flag of Poland? Pole or live there?
    2. jimm RAINOR
      jimm RAINOR 1 November 2012 18: 00
      0
      Well, I'm not only watching telly .....

      They still have, if anything, very interesting excuses for their own inaction ... "they were not given" "they were not called", etc. but in the office chanting nonsense in the style of Hillary Clinton is just two times - please
      1. Perch_xnumx
        Perch_xnumx 1 November 2012 18: 12
        0
        Hey, you better look at the children’s eyes in the orphanage, maybe you will understand how much. The orphans, it turns out to be not particularly interesting to anyone, and they always have a need
    3. Konrad
      Konrad 1 November 2012 22: 36
      0
      Quote: Фкенщь13

      I personally observe liberals only on TV. I haven’t met a single one yet!

      Well, on TV - it's understandable, they explain who is who. But why - "I have not met a single one live yet"? Maybe he thought that the tag on the forehead would be glued? Liberal in the Encyclopedic Dictionary:
      Liberal - (from lat. Liberalis - regarding freedom - free), 1) in its original meaning - free-thinking, freethinker; sometimes a person prone to excessive condescension.
  34. Gur
    Gur 1 November 2012 16: 08
    +7
    These are the words to those who are so diligently pulling out their underwear and suffering over it. Memory is a good thing, of course, but in my opinion it is not good for you either. What to believe, the truth, not the truth, you don't care, you just have to groan and wring your hands. Yes, sometimes things were terrible, but they were done by the people themselves. Of those Jews and Germans, Russians, etc., who hug and cry, remembering those terrible times, perhaps there are those who are to blame for the death of your family and friends. But that's not the point. The bottom line is that, as if remembering the dead, you forget about the living. Many no longer have and will not have a future. Without the KGB and camps. The people are dying from despair, poverty, disease, drug addiction and drunkenness. Earlier, the people were dying from overwork now from unemployment. Here's to be happy for them. As they say, dead to the dead, living to the living. And there is a share of your participation in this hopelessness. By will, or involuntarily, you destroy the unity of the state, at the suggestion of someone. What do the children see that their state was shit, shit and remained .. Although I think that the USSR was not shit, it is now shown that way, and those who are dearer to the Turkish coast, and England are their homeland. this confusion, no one remembers our sworn friends, with the help of which sabotages, collusion, and conspiracies were organized. (after all? Was it!) And now these "friends" act only in the role of accusers. And about their help for some reason, not who is not gu-gu. Say thank you to them then. Enough to live in the past, nothing to fix, this is OUR story, (and unfortunately she did not teach us anything) You can die groaning, but this is OUR STORY, good or bad, it is yours and mine, and you have to live with it, know and be proud of it. THIS IS THE STORY OF A GREAT PEOPLE !! WHO EXPERIENCED Mongols, Levonians, Poles, Swedes, Japanese, British, French, Germans, survived their kings, leaders, and will survive much more, BUT he will still find his happiness, his justice. I think so! Damn Hurray is just not enough)))
    1. Perch_xnumx
      Perch_xnumx 1 November 2012 17: 24
      -2
      The lessons of history, the tragedy of the Russian people need to be remembered, always, so that this does not happen again.
      -------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------
      --------------
      Whatever the state would seem like shit, to feel like a man, you yourself need to help those people who need your help. If the children in the orphanage lack medicines, toys, if they are bullied there, if they do not want to give bureaucrats housing. It is necessary not to sit and tryndet, considering himself a patriot of the motherland and pray for Stalin. It is necessary for the patriots to pack up and come to a neighboring orphanage, bring gifts and necessities, and if the orphans are offended, you need to take these people aside to take by the throat and tell you ...... it will be more expensive. If orphans do not want to give housing, they need to get together and build bureaucrats. If pensioners are being pinched, or drug dealers are operating in the city, get together and take the police and prosecutors by the throat. If the police press people, take them by the throat together. Measure - justice and truth. No need to nod when erysipelas are crooked. It is necessary not to remain indifferent and not sit silently on the ass, then national pride and the idea and unity of the nation will appear. I remember the living and try not to forget. Do you remember and help them, or you nod at your neighbor and Stalin.
      -------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------
      ----------------------
      Those who advocate a new Stalin - the new Stalin will not bring anything but a new civil war and the final collapse of Russia, the final departure from the country of the most intelligent and capable. There will be only a lot of fuel for those who want a split country.

      My personal opinion.
      1. jimm RAINOR
        jimm RAINOR 1 November 2012 18: 07
        +6
        Oh tired you are already a broadcaster ....

        No one here advocates a new Stalin ..... When it comes to your silly opposition head .....
        Here the people are against the DEMONIZATION of the leader ..... and not for the Second Coming ....

        This is at least understandable .... You are our moralist .....

        There is no need to trash history to all "intellectuals" sitting in the warmth of the house and talking about good and evil ...
        And then there is a lot of text ... well, except for the text, there is nothing

        There the French are proud of their Revolutions (and bloodshed was shed there) .... Your Poles Pilsudski also do not disdain .... and he also liked to put his political opponents on the balance sheet in a concentration camp .... and nothing is alive ....
        So here you are with the "intelligentsia" and "fighter for the TRUTH" I propose to calm down and not to destroy either the former USSR or its history .... otherwise he was chirping about good, evil and the Hand of God ....
        1. Konrad
          Konrad 1 November 2012 22: 26
          -5
          Quote: Jimm RAINOR
          There is no need to trash history to any "intellectuals"

          For a stupid cattle, the word intellectual has always been abusive.
          1. ikrut
            ikrut 2 November 2012 01: 52
            +3
            Why only for cattle? Lenin, for example. "cattle" was not. This is 100%. To understand this, you can just read it. So he, with all his frankness, called the intelligentsia "SHIT". And I completely agree with him on this, although I myself have 2 higher degrees and a degree. Liberal intelligentsia is SHIT. In all senses.
            1. Stary oper
              Stary oper 2 November 2012 21: 24
              +1
              ikrut
              And indeed ... And let's do without teachers, doctors, engineers, designers, scientists. There is nothing to say about writers, artists, directors, actors and other "evil spirits". :)
      2. thorstein
        thorstein 1 November 2012 18: 28
        0
        The only problem is that if the people get up and take all this kodlu by the throat, then there will be banal anarchy. There will be rebellion, senseless and merciless. And in this case, there will be a split in the country, since the crowd will first hang all the oppressors on the pillars, but then all the remaining energy will be poured out onto what is around. Such a force can be kept in check only by a person with a strong will. So, without a new father of nations, nothing.
      3. s1н7т
        s1н7т 1 November 2012 21: 03
        0
        Minusanul. Normal people do not advocate for a "new Stalin". Do not touch the former!
      4. Gur
        Gur 2 November 2012 09: 57
        -2
        Well, it can be seen how you from Poland take care of your native country. The wailing about Stalin is a memory of at least some kind of justice and social equality. The people are simply suffocating from democracy, and on the horizon there is an invisible leader, a man who would return to the people what was stolen from him without blood. Your position is certainly healthy, if it really is. Only at your suggestion, I don’t agree to live like that. If I take the bureaucrats, the police by the throat, feed the orphans, when I myself have to work. to feed and raise their children? But I also pay a tax on this. Yes, I try as much as I can to help my neighbors. But unfortunately or fortunately, I’m not Abromovich, Luzhkov and others. And the question is, HERE FUCK SUCH A STORY, THE GOVERNMENT, if I was spending money on their maintenance, I still have to do their work for them, playing the role of a supervisory authority. When the same government, the state calmly lets thieves and traitors escape with stolen capital.
  35. 8 company
    8 company 1 November 2012 16: 42
    -3
    Let us remember the Soviet pilots, who never managed to fight the Messers and Focke-Wulfs. Hero of the Soviet Union Rychagov sharply raised the question of improving the pilots' flying skills. Once he flared up about the hours of a training raid at a meeting in the Kremlin: "30 hours is only enough for a pilot to crash. And he still needs to be able to fight. 120 hours is required at least!" In April 1941. there was a meeting of the Military Council on the topic of high accidents in the Air Force with the participation of Stalin. Rychagov unexpectedly threw out a reply: "They are breaking up because you make us fly on" coffins "! Stalin, who was walking around the room at that time, went up to Rychagov and said:" You shouldn't have said that, "and closed the meeting. Pavel. Rychagov was arrested on June 22, 1941. And on June 24, his wife Maria Nesterenko, deputy commander of a separate special-purpose aviation regiment, was arrested. From the charges brought against her: "... being the beloved wife of Rychagov, she could not but know about the treasonous activities of her husband "Pavel Rychagov and Maria Nesterenko were shot on the same day on October 28, 1941.
    Twice Hero of the Soviet Union Yakov Smushkevich became famous for his military operations in Spain and Khalkhin Gol. Smushkevich's straightforward and honest nature did not allow him to maintain 'correct' relationships with senior officials. He, uncompromisingly fought against many shortcomings and erroneous decisions associated with military aviation. In July 1940. he was appointed inspector general of the Air Force, in December of the same year he was promoted to assistant chief of the General Staff for aviation. June 8, 1941 Smushkevich, who was being treated in a hospital in connection with another exacerbation of old wounds, was arrested by the NKVD and transferred to prison on a stretcher. He is accused of having links with the "enemy of the people" Uborevich and participation in an anti-Soviet conspiracy. On the same stretcher on October 28, 1941. Yakov Vladimirovich was taken out of the 'funnel' near the village of Barbysh in the Kuibyshev area, shot and dumped into a pit. There were already the bodies of many prominent military leaders of the Red Army, who were shot on that day according to prescription number 2756 / B signed by the head of the NKVD Beria, among them were the owners of invaluable combat experience gained in the skies of Khalkhin Gol, Finland, Spain, the head of the Air Defense Directorate Hero of the Soviet Union Grigory Stern , Head of the Air Force Academy Felix Arzhenukhin, Deputy Commander of the Red Army Air Force for Long-Range Aviation Hero of the Soviet Union Ivan Proskurov and others. Smushkevich's wife and daughter were arrested and then exiled to Siberia.
    Throughout the first half of 1941, German planes quietly flew in Soviet airspace. In total, more than 500 such cases were recorded, some even boarded Soviet airfields, and one Yu-52 flew to Moscow and sat there. It was strictly forbidden to shoot them down, under pain of immediate arrest and trial. The commander of the Air Force of the Kiev district, Hero of the Soviet Union E.S. Ptukhin, who proposed to shoot down German planes, was shot along with another large group of Soviet generals on February 23, 1942. His wife was arrested with a two-month-old child and kept in prison for a year, and then sent to exile in Kazakhstan. The group of generals, executed in February 1942, included, in particular: those arrested on May 30, 1941. Ernst Schacht, deputy commander of the Air Force of the Oryol Military District, Hero of the Soviet Union (his wife was also shot); the head of the Red Army Air Force Research Institute A.I. Filin, who before the war demanded the adoption of only fully brought combat aircraft designers, fought for their radio communications and dared to argue with Stalin himself on these topics (in particular, during his report at the meeting on May 7 1941 in the Kremlin); and many others…
    1. ikrut
      ikrut 2 November 2012 02: 00
      +1
      As for Rychagov, I think Stalin is right. You can't say that to a lieutenant general and a deputy. People's Commissar of Defense. This is pure stupidity and alarmism. In wartime, they are shot by law for this. Why should Leverage be an exception? And why do we need a stupid deputy. Commissar. Did he really think that Stalin did not know the state of affairs in our and German aviation? If I thought - then And also said - twice And if I didn't think so, but still said - a fool three times and an alarmist. So. that "according to the laws of wartime ..." Stalin did everything right. IMHO.
    2. Strategia
      Strategia 6 November 2012 12: 28
      0
      In August 2012, at the "celebration of the victory over Georgia in August 2008" organized by Medvedev, there was not a single general who took part in those events - everyone was dismissed ... Where is the combat experience? Destroyed without being shot ...
    3. Prophetic
      Prophetic 7 November 2012 21: 57
      0
      Well, my friend, are we lying again?
      Once he flared up about the hours of a training raid at a meeting in the Kremlin: “30 hours is only enough for a pilot to crash. And he also needs to be able to fight.
      My illiterate friend. Prepare pilots for the take-off and landing system AFTER the war. Not from a good life. The pilots were knocked out, and there was no one to fly. Everyone understood that this is not enough, but something is better than nothing. By the end of the war, the situation had changed. Already ours had at least 120 flight hours, and the Germans were forced to release the yellowhorns. So, APREL simply couldn’t say anything like Levers physically.
      Now the facts. In early April, Zhukov and Tymoshenko reported to Stalin: “due to slackness, an average of 2 – 3 airplanes perish daily during accidents and catastrophes. Only in the incomplete 1 quarter of 1941 there were 71 catastrophe and 156 accidents, while 141 people were killed and 138 planes were killed. ”A malicious mess in the Air Force of the Red Army on the eve of the war did not arise overnight. So, back in 1939, by order of the NPO of the USSR No. 0145 of the Main Directorate of the Air Force of the Red Army, it was charged with the obligation to mask all newly built operational airfields, as well as the entire existing airfield network of the Air Force. Result: "not one of the districts paid due attention to this order and DIDN'T FOLLOW IT." Owing to precisely this malicious failure to comply with the order of 1939, an even more stringent order No. 0367 of 27.12.40 appeared. But again nothing was done... Stalin sends a commission to control the execution of the order. The commission is headed by Rychagov. After 2 days, Rychagov reports that everything is in order, disguised. Stalin is told - a lie! the next day, order No. 0043 of June 20, 1941 was issued, "such an attitude to camouflage as one of the main types of combat readiness of the Air Force can no longer be tolerated." In other words, on the eve of the war, Rychagov and his deputy Smushkevich not only do not comply with the orders of the Supreme Commander-in-Chief, but lie to him that they do. Com. Aviation of the Moscow Military District, N. A. Sbytov, in March 1941, personally inspected the situation of aviation in the border districts: “I remember flying in the U-2 and I see that the planes are not scattered everywhere, not camouflaged - they stand in full view! I landed at one airfield - there brand new "pawns" lined up nearby. I checked - and they were not even filled with fuel! ". That is, they could not even take off, with all their desire! Is this Stalin's fault? Is this Russian slovenliness or something more ?!
      They shot, and they did the right thing! They may have been good pilots, but the death of almost a thousand planes and pilots right at the airfields on the very first day of the war was on the conscience of these "innocent" convicts.
  36. pav-pon1972
    pav-pon1972 1 November 2012 17: 46
    +5
    By the way, Khrushchev himself, being the First Secretary of the City Committee of Moscow, tried very hard most of all, during his time he exiled about a million and shot (and this is only from Moscow). And when he became the first secretary of the Ukrainian SSR, he began with repressions, moreover, thoughtless, for which he received a reprimand from Stalin along the party line. And the main repressions were under the "Lenin Guardsman" Yezhov, and with the arrival of Beria, the repression came to naught ...
  37. jimm RAINOR
    jimm RAINOR 1 November 2012 18: 09
    0
    pav-pon1972,
    Only you forget, comrade ... from where funding was taken on the Fokke-Wulfs and Messers .....
    and that all Europe worked for it + Grandmas in the USA printed ...)))
  38. AleksUkr
    AleksUkr 1 November 2012 18: 13
    0
    ??????? ZAVET, 8th company, Perch_1 ???????? Where did you come from? Who raised you? Who are your parents? If they are the same as you, then they have crushed you a little. If they are not entirely to blame for your dementia, then I sympathize with them very much. How hard it is for them to live, or lived in this world, seeing how their work sprinkles with saliva to their homeland. What have you personally done good for the country, for those around you? Who hired you and who do you serve? And in general, engage in polemics with nonsense, the dregs of our society, albeit not quite fair - at a loss. I would like to appeal to all forum users - pay less attention to them and then they will be able to drown in their own waste and will not spoil the air. And good luck to them in their own research.
    1. Perch_xnumx
      Perch_xnumx 1 November 2012 21: 01
      0
      I can ask the same series of questions. She squeezes her teeth like a rake. How beautiful the local public order singers sang here. We do not swear, we personally do not insult - but for you. As I understand it, this is the norm, can this be so? Hey huh Briefly - do not give a damn. I say that I consider it necessary and how much I consider it necessary. I will not go down to reciprocal compliments. Comrades compliments from their own anger and powerlessness.
  39. Comrade1945
    Comrade1945 1 November 2012 19: 29
    +1
    ... No no no no wassat The most interesting thing for me was to observe the numbers published by journalists and presenters of news programs. The number of repressed everywhere was different. Everything is fine with fantasy.
  40. sonovlad
    sonovlad 1 November 2012 20: 41
    +8
    A new teacher comes to class:
    - My name is Abram Davidovich, I am a liberal. And now all get up in turns and introduce yourself just like me ...
    - My name is Masha, I am a liberal ...
    - My name is Stepa, I am a liberal ...
    - I am Little Johnny, I'm a Stalinist.
    - Little Johnny, why are you Stalinist ?! !
    - My mother is Stalinist, my father is Stalinist, my friends are Stalinists, and I, too, are Stalinist.
    “Little Vovochka, if your mom were a prostitute, your dad was a drug addict, and your friends were pi% arams, who would you be then ?!” !
    - Then I would be a liberal.
  41. ded_73
    ded_73 1 November 2012 21: 11
    -4
    Oh, these groans about the "strong" hand. Okay, let's leave Solzhenitsin, 95% of those commenting, but the author himself probably did not read, and he is difficult to read (eternally Soviet - I have not read it, but I condemn it). Read V. Shalamov and project his life story onto yourself. Not on a comrade, not on a brother and friend, but on YOURSELF. And answer - could you personally drink, drip for the soldering of a little blackie for about 5-7 years only for an anecdote, for simple agreement with how YOUR country is being built, for your own opinion? To work hard, being innocently convicted, piously believing that Stalin does not know about lawlessness and die, or rather die with his name on his lips? Personally YOU?
    Or are you hoping to be on the other side?
    1. Cebep0317
      Cebep0317 1 November 2012 21: 53
      +1
      Tell me, if now a police officer throws a bag of illegal drugs to an innocent person and puts him for a long time, only because he claimed for example his rights, is it Putin’s fault or Medvedev? Or maybe the matter is not in the supreme, but in a specific person in uniform? After all, the bastard having received power can choose any convenient method, an anecdote or drugs, what does Stalin or Putin have to do with it ??
      1. s1н7т
        s1н7т 1 November 2012 22: 43
        0
        Quote: Cebep0317
        What does Stalin or Putin?

        Pi-pez, liberal kindergarten! Despite the fact that in the first case they built a great country, and in the second - it was prosrali. And so, it seems no difference, yeah.
      2. Stary oper
        Stary oper 1 November 2012 22: 54
        -2
        Cebep0317
        Given that Comrade Stalin built a system based on denunciations, on rejection of a different opinion and on the destruction of all the unwanted. What is the main difference between the system? The fact that she soon begins to work independently, which sometimes puts the creator himself in front of the need to replace some of the most zealous "screws", which, incidentally, also fits into her rules.
        1. ikrut
          ikrut 2 November 2012 02: 11
          +2
          The current USA and Germany are built on the scammers. If the USSR were built on denunciation, then it would flourish now. But we practically do not have this phenomenon (in comparison with the mentioned countries).
          1. Stary oper
            Stary oper 2 November 2012 09: 49
            +1
            ikrut
            Ah, got it. You want to say that the repression was laid down in the plans of the five-year plans?
            By the way, a denunciation thrives (like any phenomenon) when there is a demand for it. And there is no need to deny the obvious facts about the fact that at that time there were no arrests based on denunciations. Quite often ... I understand that it is unpleasant to realize. We are Slavs, we are more spiritual than the damned west, and here it is ... But, as they say, you won’t erase words from a song.
    2. ikrut
      ikrut 2 November 2012 02: 09
      +2
      Don't flatter yourself too much. Like, I'm such a petrel and read everything. And the rest are stupid penguins. Shalamov was a Trotskyist, distributed Trotskyist leaflets and was a member of a Trotskyist organization. According to the LAW, he was convicted. Although. of course, his Kolyma stories will give the "archipelago" a hundred points ahead. As for "innocence" - ask a hundred people sitting in the current prison - "are you guilty? Punishment deserved?" And all a hundred will answer - "No". Not just condemned. "And Stalin has nothing to do with it. How well Vysotsky said in" Meeting place .. "-" There is no punishment without guilt. "This is actually the case. IMHO.
    3. Prophetic
      Prophetic 7 November 2012 16: 39
      0
      Okay, let’s leave Solzhenitsyn, his 95% of those who comment, yes, the author himself probably didn’t read it, and it’s difficult to read (it’s eternally Soviet - didn’t read it, but I condemn it)
      Oh, these educators to me ... Once I received with sin in half crusts of the highest, and considers himself to be the navel of the earth. But in reality - 3 class TsPSh. Solzhenitsen is difficult for him to read ... Scream! lol Hey, my friend, can you just tell me in which chapter and what kind of work the Vertmont prisoner told how he became a POKER, huh? To be honest, without searching the Internet? And where exactly did he LGAL from the fact that the number of repressed reached 110 million (and this with the total population of the USSR 150 million!) What exactly did he refer to when he wrote this lie? Archipilag has a huge number of references to the alleged "documents" of the NKVD. And you, ignoramus, never thought, but where did the former convict, who was under constant surveillance of the outdoor, get these secret documents? Who gave them to him? Why, when he arrived in Russia and sent a request to the archives, like is it possible to see at last, if I wrote the truth, the archives answered him with malice that the archives untouched by you were waiting for you?
      Work hard, being innocently condemned,
      And you take the trouble to explain to me how it happened that I, a budding graduate student during the years of perestroika, suddenly turned out to be an unnecessary beggar with a pregnant wife and a one-year-old baby in her arms in a hostel in one bed? There was nothing to eat, not to mention science. How did it happen that millions of old people who had been working hard for their country all their lives began to wrestle around garbage dumps? How did 20 million Russians, respected, born in their own country, suddenly find themselves disenfranchised and despised by emigrants? For what such a bright future? And whose future? So that several dozen Jews can become oligarchs? Is it for this future that tens of millions of destinies have been crippled ?!
      My dear, no one justifies the crime. The only question is that it is not necessary to lie. The crimes of some do NOT justify the lies and crimes of others. Gorbachev’s betrayal and deliberate destruction of the country's economy by the Chubais gang cannot be justified by the crimes of the Stalin era.
  42. alex86
    alex86 1 November 2012 23: 16
    0
    It is surprising that people who consider themselves to be the majority declare that repressions are correct and call for new ones. In their opinion, it turns out that for the majority, knocking, mutual hatred and thoughtless worship of the leader (no matter who he is) is the main sign of love for the motherland. To me, this point of view seems, to put it mildly, erroneous. Let me tell you that the majority in our country are normal people, they don’t want to become informers and basement monsters, and they consider your desire for such behavior to be at least moral underdevelopment, and maximum, mental illness.
    1. ikrut
      ikrut 2 November 2012 02: 14
      +4
      What kind of repression are we talking about? Where are they? Who called for squealing? What are you speaking about?
      You invent diseases yourself and diagnose them yourself. Very good conveniently.
      1. alex86
        alex86 2 November 2012 20: 02
        0
        Squealing, mutual hatred and thoughtless worship of the leader were the basis of the repressions of the Stalin period - I do not invent anything here. And today many admirers of Stalinism declare the correctness of their repressions and their desirability - you just read what they write - so here I’m not making anything up.
        1. Rink
          Rink 2 November 2012 20: 36
          0
          Quote: alex86
          Squealing, mutual hatred and thoughtless worship of the leader were the basis of the repressions of the Stalin period - I do not invent anything here. ....

          Absolutely right! It was not you who invented it, it was invented long before you, and we all (and I, too, for a long time) simply repeat what we were told at school.

          The "snitching", which insults you so much in the Stalinist era and is now common practice in Europe and in the same States - that is, among the main teachers of democracy and defenders of freedom. Paid police informants in America, for example, do not bother anyone ("business is business!", Obviously) ...
          1. Konrad
            Konrad 2 November 2012 21: 17
            0
            Quote: Skating rink
            The "snitching" that insults you so much in the Stalinist era and is now a common practice in Europe and in the same States

            Report to the police about a crime, a criminal or a neighbor who allegedly wrapped a herring in a newspaper with a portrait of a "leader" - is there a difference ???
            1. Rink
              Rink 2 November 2012 22: 06
              0
              Quote: Konrad
              Report to the police about a crime, a criminal or a neighbor who allegedly wrapped a herring in a newspaper with a portrait of a "leader" - is there a difference ???

              Police whistleblowers report everything: an improperly parked car, and statements about the existing system or individuals. For example, about the statement of the security guard addressed to the president’s wife - a very recent story, have you read?
              And in the post-war period, on the wave of "red" hysteria in the United States, one could lose one's job or even go to an American prison (where torture is still not prohibited) just for suspicion of leftist views, or even more so of sympathy for the communists. Just for words in a cafe or in a smoking-room, which can be interpreted as protection of the left parties, socialist countries, communists, Cubans or Russians - prison! Is this not the pursuit of political views? This is not snitching on a neighbor with a herring in the portrait of the leader?

              However, the herring in the leader's portrait as an excuse for exile is somehow very in the spirit of the "inventions" of Novodvorsk and others like them Solzhenitsyn ... In an amicable way, one should also investigate where these legs grow from, and is this a real fact or another a horror story, an invention of dissident liberals?
              Does anyone know when and with whom it happened?
              1. Strategia
                Strategia 6 November 2012 12: 11
                0
                What to inform or not to inform, the informant decides, which determines his level: a dirty bastard or a secret employee - guardian for the benefit of people and the homeland.
  43. Rink
    Rink 1 November 2012 23: 36
    +4
    Thanks to the author for the topic! A very useful and useful article!

    The West has long been waging an information war against Russia aimed at its immensely increased authority after World War II. Russia, in fact, independently emerged victorious in this incredible war and, having broken the back of Hitler, received the image of the savior of Europe (again, by the way). The "allies", who had been waiting for a long time on whose side to take, managed to cling to only at the very end, and their contribution to the "common" victory is ridiculously small. All this taken together did not suit Western democrats in any way, and their historians and special services did a wonderful job in the field of lies.

    Given that:
    - “documents” from Canadian and American concentration camps were found in the photo archives of the Ukrainian Holodomor;
    - the European court for review recognized the Katyn case as a fake;
    - "data" on Stalinist repressions do not fit in any way with the demographic indicators of Russia (and the list goes on),

    it seems reasonable to hold revision of well-known "truths" about our history and especially "high-profile cases" like the Holodomor (or even the entire history of the 20th century), getting to the source all these figures and facts.

    The fact is that historians are used to quoting each other. In principle, it’s normal practice not to do double or triple work, but it based on trust in the integrity of the previous scientistwho worked on the topic and summarized the information in his writings, now quoted by other historians.
    With the methodology that has developed in historical science, it is very easy to throw in a falsification: it is enough for an unscrupulous scientist to publish two or three "authoritative" books for quotations from them to permeate for half a century almost all scientific and not very literature on the subject and become almost a dogma, indisputable well-known "fact".

    How easily the West goes to falsification can be seen at least by the example of fake photoshopped photos from Syria, "video reports" from Libya, filmed in the scenery in the Qatari desert, not found weapons of mass destruction in Iraq and so on ... These are just fresh examples, but you can find some digging carriage and small cart are examples of systemic, directional lies used by Western proponents of democracy ...

    In such circumstances, the primary sources are the only reliable way to test myths, and there is nothing shameful in such verification. If the story of the 20th century is true, she has nothing to fear from any checks. Moreover, such checks will only benefit her, as they will strengthen her foundations and finally remove any doubts about her truth.

    If the story is full of lies and myths, then why the hell is such a story to us ?! Liars need to be put in place.

    ___

    PS And the competence of President-Clown Medvedev as a historian of the Stalin period in the life of the USSR does not cause me the slightest confidence. Without representing anything at all, he allowed himself to reach the most brilliant leader of the country over the past couple of hundred years!



    His talent as a leader is clearly visible in the graph of Russia's GDP per capita: the graph that Putin sharply raises has the only failure, and it falls precisely during the years of the bear cub's rule. He would be silent in a rag, and not kick the memory of real patriots of Russia ...

    This unfortunate politician is becoming harmful to the country, and we need to take a closer look at what he is busy with right now, so that he can give his hands in time - he should not be let out of his eyes.
    1. Skavron
      Skavron 6 November 2012 11: 51
      0
      The fall in GDP under Medvedev is a crisis of 2008-2009. And rise again. So it’s not necessary to drive a little bear ...
  44. polyureflyakes
    polyureflyakes 1 November 2012 23: 51
    +1
    Our "respected" government has long spat on the population!
    Medvedev does not like I.V. Stalin and half of his office! And why? Stalin possessed steel eggs and did not know what fear was, political pressure from the states! He had the honor and dignity! Under him there was no corruption, drugs, there was a free (quality) education, there was free medicine! He was a true patriot of his country and did everything for the people! And what, our supreme pi * doubles !? Money goes to the Caucasus by the river !!! What for!? We have nothing to eat as a veteran of the Second World War (pensioners), they live in collapsed shacks, they barely scrape a piece of bread! And they, what are they !? Bribe takers, corrupt judges, dishonest officials! How many young boys died for the independence of Chechnya !? How much money they laundered in this war !?
    The militant was awarded the "Hero of Russia" medal, for what !? For shooting our young boys !!!

    There is an explicit census of history! Eh .... dear government ... Stalin is not enough for you! And then, would hang out with Vorkuta now!
  45. Alexander 1958
    Alexander 1958 2 November 2012 00: 39
    +1
    For Stary oper
    Your post ..
    ...] The point is that each side builds its evidence base on a certain set of "axioms". Let's try to consider them. How Stalin's supporters argue their position? The first is the industrialization of the country. The second is his role in the Great Patriotic War. Third, the restoration of the country in the post-war period, the creation of a power that plays an important role in the world arena. Fourth, in those conditions, the solution of such large-scale tasks was impossible without the adoption of tough and sometimes cruel (and they are ready to partially admit this) measures. And, finally, the last - the opponents of Stalin are not patriots of the country who play into the hands of ideological opponents in denigrating our history in particular and the socialist system as a whole.
    Now let's consider the system of "axioms" of Stalin's opponents. It practically boils down to one thing - no great goals can justify the physical destruction of dissent in the party, the destruction of representatives of entire classes (peasantry, Cossacks, nobles, priests), mass famine (at least two), repression in the Red Army, which could not not affect the results of the initial stage of the war, despite the power of the German military machine. They do not want to accept a system based on denunciations and by this very much reminiscent of the system of Nazi Germany, the deportation of many peoples. Evaluating those times, people involuntarily project (and this is understandable, against the background of the nostalgia of his supporters for a strong hand) that system onto themselves and their loved ones.
    Can they be accused of unpatriotism? Does the word "patriot" mean an uncritical perception of the history of his country?
    And this situation is just not one of those about which they say that "the truth lies somewhere in the middle." For supporters assess that time from the standpoint of the material (built factories, cities, dams and the fact that the end justifies the means), and opponents from the moral and ethical point of view. At the same time, considering (I think, not without reason) that slave labor (which was essentially in collective farms, in "sharashki", prison labor) does not belong to productive labor.
    Therefore, all these disputes, in essence, are as endless (if we continue to warm up this topic), as well as futile. Unless in terms of recruiting supporters. [/ Quote]

    You have not badly outlined the positions of the Stalinists and anti-Stalinists, thank you! But, in my opinion, you have not touched at all on what is deep in these contradictions.
    One of the most important functions of the media in general and the Internet in particular is to shape a person's worldview, his goals and meanings of life. Under Stalin they were alone, now they are different .. You can of course say that then the values ​​were set from above (and it is difficult to argue with this), but now the values ​​are chosen freely, but I have deep doubts that to assert that the values ​​set from above this is unambiguously bad, but freely chosen ones are good .. And how freely we now choose values, also raises great doubts. Of course, if we choose freedom on the example of "pissy riot", life in pursuit of pleasures, things, money, then we are told that this is the right choice, but if we start asking questions where public property has gone, who is to blame for the collapse of the country, this is already undermining the existing system!
    On this site, the majority either fully or with reservations support both the personality and affairs of Stalin. but this is only the visible part of the controversy. In fact, supporting Stalin, people defend their values, meanings and rules of life, their concept of good and evil. The accomplishments of Stalin, his goals and morality are what attract people to defend Stalin since protecting Stalin we protect our values ​​and our present and future.
    Continued ..
    1. Stary oper
      Stary oper 2 November 2012 20: 56
      +1
      Alexander 1958.
      Do you know what makes me laugh on this site? This is a game of adults in the agitation and propaganda department of some regional party committee. People seriously believe that they are waging an "ideological struggle" here, that they are fighting for the minds of young people and against Western ideology, which of course is directed against Russia.
      This is what I will tell you. The smaller the gap in the standard of living for us and there, the less such work will need to be done. And if we ever (suppose) ever surpass Switzerland, Austria, Sweden and others in terms of living standards, then the need for it will generally disappear. And do not bother with the fact that the West is allegedly conducting subversive ideological work against Russia. The West does not really care about Russia at all. I could tell you this as a person living there. There is not so much information about affairs in Russia as we think. The feed is also mostly neutral. There is a channel showing documentaries about different countries. Including about Russia. So, all the films that I saw were made with great respect from the country and its people. I’m not talking already (though it was about 6 years ago) about the project, when several groups of Germans with a minimum of money and without knowledge of the language traveled from Moscow to Beijing. It is clear that most of the journey was through Russia. It was necessary to see how our people shared the last with them, how they took for the night, brought along the way and so on. All ideological work, if we talk about this, should be reduced to rapprochement of peoples, to friendship between them, to mutual understanding, and not to chanting the idols of the past.
      1. Alexander 1958
        Alexander 1958 2 November 2012 22: 42
        0
        For
        Stary oper
        Good day! So who is against the rapprochement of peoples? If since 1945, then I am FOR, and if since since 1991, then I am AGAINST! I hear about the convergence of transparency, perestroika and reboots regularly - it sounds beautiful, but it blows bad and tastes like shit. So, to paraphrase Y. Nikulin, I’ll say, we’re better to you ..
        Alexander 1958
      2. Strategia
        Strategia 7 November 2012 11: 36
        0
        Especially Westerners don't care about our natural resources! That's right, why should they conduct an ideological struggle with us, we (Russians) are dying out anyway. And they will give glass beads to the natives migrating to Russia, and for some (like the Saudi sheikhs) there may be "Cadillacs" with gold bumpers decorated with diamonds - let them have fun, if only they give the bowels ...
      3. Prophetic
        Prophetic 7 November 2012 15: 39
        +1
        And do not bother with the fact that the West is allegedly conducting subversive ideological work against Russia. The West does not care much about Russia at all. I could tell you this, as a person living there
        The opinion of ordinary Germans and the opinion of the governing elite are two big differences. Examples at the household level are stupidity that does not prove anything. The policy of the GOVERNING circles speaks about something completely different.
        The Warsaw Pact broke up and all Soviet troops left Europe. NATO fell apart in response? Not. On the contrary, she approached our borders. Our border was surrounded by rocket belts. Is this a goodwill gesture? They started talking loudly that the Arctic, half of which belongs to Russia, should become the common property, is that what? And if tomorrow Russia declares that Berlin and half of Germany should become the common property? What will the Germans say then? And when they say in plain text that Siberia should not belong to Russians, how is it? And the total lie of ALL Western media during the 08.08.08 war, during the massacre in Yugoslavia, pouring Gaddafi’s deceitful mud, using staged filming - these are not elements of an ideological war? But what about the American military bases in Germany itself, what are the elements of freedom? Do they protect you from whom? From ourselves? And hundreds of non-governmental organizations that exist on the money of the US State Department on the territory of Russia itself, is this not an element of influence? And when every year, representatives of the world government at their Bilderberg gatherings invite all sorts of renegades like Chubais, Kasparov — what is this for? My dear, if you personally do not know anything about the plans of the world government for the dismemberment of Russia, this does not mean that these plans do not exist.
  46. Egoza
    Egoza 2 November 2012 00: 46
    +4
    perch_1,
    Remember the engineer behind the back of God will not hide from his actions, for all the answer you will have to keep yourself.
    xxxxx

    And what? Well said! For example, when a wave of de-Stalinization arose again under Gorbachev, one of the leading pillars of the church at that time declared: "Stalin was God's punishing sword! He punished all those who raised their hand against God's anointed Tsar Romanov" (I read this in a magazine " Young Guard ", sorry for the exact date and number I don't remember where this interview was published). Do believers have any objections?
    xxxxxx

    Quote: alex86
    It is surprising that people who consider themselves to be the majority declare that repressions are correct and call for new ones.


    You know, when you face a real threat that violence from the fascists will begin, that only citizens of "ethnic nationality" should occupy any leadership positions (from the head of the garden to the very top), when they try to prohibit you from getting an education at a university from - because you speak a different language, you will involuntarily say that a new Stalin is needed to stop the fascists. What I wrote was not a "horror film", but a clear program of the "new" party "Freedom", which passed in our parliament. And although the elections are not over yet, they have already brought a bunch of their fighters to Kiev, who surround the polling stations, do not allow the votes to be counted .... in short, go to the websites of Ukrainian newspapers. And yes, these are all descendants of the "innocently repressed" Bandera supporters, and new fellows brought up by old people who survived exile. "Unhappy!"
    And about "denunciation" - this is not at all Stalin's invention. In the same Europe, long before the war, there were concierges and concierges in the houses, whose duties included (and now includes) inform the police about everything.
    xxxxxx
    And for the 8th company. Aircraft designer Yakovlev wrote in his memoirs that, being at a reception with Stalin, he stood up for one talented designer who was repressed. And Stalin ordered to understand, because Yakovlev vouched for him. And they let him out, and sorted out the one who wrote the false denunciation. Along with the list of the repressed, it would be nice to announce the names of those who wrote denunciations to them. Only now, nothing can be heard about them anywhere. So everything can be blamed on Stalin, and those who crap stealthily - no, no!
    1. alex86
      alex86 2 November 2012 20: 25
      0
      For some reason you think that the "new Stalin" will be for you (and for you). However, this does not follow from anywhere, and the social base of the Svoboda party will be much more convenient for such a leader - they are better organized, ready for more, more ideological - and when choosing from you and the "new Bandera", such a leader will choose "new Bandera", it is not without reason the policemen who served with the Germans received 10 years, and those who were surrounded (well, everyone else) - more likely 25 years. So the fascist accomplices of Stalin's regime are more socially close (as well as criminals). Just in case, the term "socially close" was applied during the years of repression to murderers, thieves and other similar criminals (you never know, suddenly you don't know). Regarding denunciation - even Judas denounced Christ, nothing is new in the Stalinist regime, the point is that such regimes cultivate such actions and thus corrupt the people. And no need to nod at Europe, Hitler was there too - after all, this does not justify Stalin, and blacks in America were lynched - and this does not justify repression. The situation in Ukraine is clearly difficult, but Stalin's appeal is not a method.
    2. Stary oper
      Stary oper 2 November 2012 21: 33
      +2
      Egoza
      In the same Europe, long before the war, there were already concierges and concierges in their houses, whose duties it was (and now is) to inform the police about everything.

      I somehow didn’t see houses with concierges here. :) You can see the young lady of high flight ... :)
  47. Alexander 1958
    Alexander 1958 2 November 2012 01: 13
    +2
    Continued ..
    .. I will offer my vision of this confrontation expressed in a nutshell - shock therapy, and sometimes surgery without anesthesia - this is how the period of Stalin's rule can be characterized. A terrible, cruel and great period!, But it was this shock therapy that helped build a state, create a second economy in the world and win the war to create new meanings and values. and all in about 25 years. For the same 25 years, starting from the end of the 80s, they can be called - shock without therapy, the country, the economy was destroyed, other values ​​and meanings appeared and dominated in society (pissy riot, etc.) Generally, one can imagine the positions of such a small handful anti-Stalinists supporting, consciously or not, it does not matter, the current liberal values. criticizes the main mass for the fact that building a country, winning a war, flying into space and building an economy were too expensive and all these achievements are not worth "one tear of a child"! But this is not the most disgusting and mocking. Worst of all, it was these people who destroyed the country, destroyed the economy, and destroyed the moral values ​​that were created by Stalin, and now these people criticize most of the site for the fact that we do not live right .. request . Back in the mid-80s, it seemed that the USSR would stand forever, but after 5 years the country was gone. Without tanks, missiles and other weapons ... What terrible weapons were the USSR destroyed? In my opinion, the USSR was destroyed by the rejection of moral values ​​in the economy during the Khrushchev-Brezhnev period, by setting other goals in ideology and politics. I cited this example in order to show how important the goals and meanings that Stalin set and defended and the abandonment of which led to the tragedy of 1991 and subsequent years. In general, we can say that protecting Stalin and the achievements of his time we protect ourselves today and tomorrow.
    The anti-Stalinists present on the site are conditionally divided into two groups, those whose relatives suffered from repression and those who hate Stalin simply because. that he was ... The former can be understood, the latter not.

    A bright representative of the latter i.e. people who hate Stalin for everything, and for repression, and for achievements is the 8th company. This is a vivid example of a person who, consciously or being manipulated, tries to impose on us alien meanings of life, norms and goals. No, he doesn’t say that Pissy Life is good. For the former political leader, this would be primitive! He imposes on us alien values ​​more subtly. The repressions were, were, the repressions are bad, and if so, then Stalin is bad. and all he did is not worth those sacrifices ...
    The speeches of the 8th company are very important at the forum - they help all of us understand what we want to protect ourselves from both at the forum and in real life. The point is not in the 8th company itself, but in the methods of both him and those like him - to offer for discussion not the most important problems, but by participating in the discussion of important ones - to try to lead the discussion to a dead end. Let people argue as much as they want about the scale of the repressions, the main thing is not to discuss Stalin's achievements, and even more so not to compare them with the current "achievements" and even more so not to ask questions who is to blame and what to do!
    I want to end with an appeal- Let us resist together the attempts to deceive us and lead us away from the truth! Gorbachev’s divorce should not be repeated!
    With uv. Alexander 1958
    1. Viklis
      Viklis 2 November 2012 12: 25
      0
      Quote: Alexander 1958
      I want to end with an appeal- Let us resist together the attempts to deceive us and lead us away from the truth! Gorbachev’s divorce should not be repeated!

      So it seems that the elections in Ukraine have already ended .. And that means they have already "resisted" ... :) Well, how else to reason? The use of the pronoun "we" is somewhat confusing. Who are "we" and how many of you, us ...? :) And the slogans are accompanied ... And outside the window, 2012, we have what we have, we have already spoken about it ... And moreover, if we talk about Alexander 1958, about our you country, then there were elections in which all the same "we" participated and what did they show? So it turns out that we say one thing, beautifully and eagerly, looking at the monitor, preoccupied with our own and others on the site, but beyond the threshold in the country, what is going on? So, who then is “we” and where is “we” ....?

      Quote: Alexander 1958
      shock therapy, and sometimes surgery without anesthesia - this is how you can characterize the period of Stalin's rule. A terrible, cruel and great period !,

      If we speak figuratively in your own words about "surgery without anesthesia", then in relation to each one would probably have chosen a more sparing method, that is, with anesthesia ... This is honestly, honestly, in all honesty and in relation to himself and his loved ones, and not repressions, denunciations, and forced relocations, and labor heroism with sweat and blood, exactly as then, is it possible among the current young generation (they say little about him here, and after all, they first of all build and live)? I do not see any denigration of the achievements of our common country in the criticism of methods of leadership that go beyond the framework of just a strong and tough hand when talking about sacrifices, about the price of what was built, that is, about all aspects of what was happening then. Moreover, I do not want to belittle the achievements of the USSR in the Khrushchev-Brezhnev period, about which you disparagingly speak. Was he not there? There were no achievements? The country "collapsed" with the departure of Stalin at the same moment? We, in the majority of those present here on the site, lived precisely at this time, and not under Stalin. There is no need to look for imaginary enemies where they do not exist, in such discussions as on the website, because we have one reality for all and, in principle, the same. And this reality is hardly a matter of verbal skirmishes and insults to each other.
      1. Alexander 1958
        Alexander 1958 2 November 2012 16: 24
        0
        For
        Viklis
        Good day! I criticize the Khrushchev-Brezhnev period not for achievements but for the shortcomings that led to the fall of the USSR. I agree that at the time of Brezhnev, the country lived more or less calmly and with prosperity, but at the same time, the trends and forces that Stalin restrained strengthened and after his death everything rolled downhill. Khrushchev canceled the responsibility of officials for their decisions. It was impossible to arrest people, just fired. Brezhnev went even further - it was impossible to dismiss from the nomenclature, they simply transplanted to another chair horizontally. The consequences of these decisions affected 20 years later. Outwardly, everything was perfect, but the acceleration vector and direction of movement changed, which led to the tragedy of 1991.
        Alexander 1958
        1. Stary oper
          Stary oper 2 November 2012 21: 13
          +1
          Alexander 1958
          What you cited as an example is a consequence of one-party system and lack of competition in politics.
    2. Stary oper
      Stary oper 2 November 2012 21: 09
      +1
      As the classic of Russian politics says: "I'll be brief ..." :)
      So, as I understand it, you are a supporter of the Communist Party? (No mockery at all). What did Marxism-Leninism say about this? "Being determines consciousness"? So, let's raise this being, and consciousness will pull up after it. And there will be no reason to argue about how good it was in those days. And the question of educating patriotism will disappear by itself.
  48. 8 company
    8 company 2 November 2012 09: 46
    -3
    Since those suffering from "unfair", in their opinion, accusations against their superhero by the name of Dzhugashvili, his fans often incline my name, I will remind them of my principled position. Stalinism is a system for oppressing the people, one of the most brutal in human history. The level of enslavement of the masses resembles the rule of the Egyptian pharaohs. Stalinism encouraged and awakened the worst traits in people: suspicion, denunciations, a tendency to take possession of other people's property, to the most serious crimes against humanity. What are the only decisions of the governing bodies on dispossession of kulaks, mass extrajudicial executions of entire strata of society, and permission for the mass use of torture? Stalinism is a periodic famine and constant malnutrition for the bulk of the people, the lack of basic goods and services, constant wars. The economy under Stalinism is militarized and almost all of its resources go to the military industry. Stalinism is a constant massive lie about a supposedly happy life, that general prosperity is about to come; that there are enemies around; that without the genius leader-superhero everyone will be lost, they will fall somewhere in a mess. The desire of modern Stalinists to justify these heinous crimes against their own people is simply disgusting, this is a real Russophobia. However, this propaganda of Stalinism is practically harmless. The Stalinists themselves will not want to exchange their present prosperous and well-fed life for mass terror, in which they will first of all inform, torture and destroy each other - just like it was under Stalin, when some revolutionaries diligently destroyed others. Has anyone seen in our time a mass action by the Stalinists: a demonstration, a strike, at least one barricade, etc.? Has anyone seen in our time on the street a man with a Stalin badge or a car with his portrait? Me not. Stalinism is dead, and this is forever, and modern Stalinists are just virtual pshikalki who betrayed their ancestors, starved by hunger and camps, the worst kind of Russophobes.
    1. Rink
      Rink 2 November 2012 11: 27
      +1
      Quote: Company 8
      ..... Stalinism is a system for oppressing the people, one of the most cruel in human history. The level of enslavement of the masses resembles the rule of the Egyptian pharaohs. Stalinism encouraged and awakened the worst features in people: suspicion, denunciation, a tendency to seize other people's property, to grave crimes against humanity. What are only the decisions of the governing bodies on dispossession, mass unreasonable executions of entire sections of society, permission to mass torture. .....

      You painted beautifully about Stalinism, about torture - just like about the Americans in Guantnamo. And the principle of your position is clear, you can not repeat it. But...

      Think about what these horror stories about Stalinism are based on — on the Khrushchev report at the 20th Party Congress or on Solzhenitsyn's fiction books?

      After all what is written by someone somewhere and what really happened is not the same thingDo you understand? History as a science and history as events that have taken place unfortunately differ from each other.

      And more and more often the "known facts" on which the liberal version of history is based ("Stalin is the fiend of hell") do not stand up to the test of facts.

      I have already given an example of the Katyn affair: it seems that everything was so clear that even the president of our then united country apologized officially for these events. But suddenly .... The European Court after consideration recognizes all these events as fake, and refuses the Polish side to satisfy the claims.

      And the facts, declassified primary sources more and more often refute the image of the "prison of peoples", "the totality of repressions" and other horrors hung on Stalin by "humanists from dissidence".

      Even in the brief article under discussion, the author shows: all books writing about the massive nature of repressions are based on only three "primary sources", and all of them are unofficial, and Solzhenitsyn is no more attracted to the historian than Novodvorskaya ... And this whole version stands on such a fragile foundation!

      Should we refuse to check it just because “they already know everything”? And isn't it more logical to check what exactly the "well-known" truths are based on?
      If on the school textbooks that you and I memorized at one time, then I will disappoint you ... School textbooks, too, cannot be regarded as serious materials and the primary source of knowledge. Don't believe me? read then what is written in modern Ukrainian "pidruchnik" - you will see ...

      That’s why I say: the firmness of your beliefs and principles, of course, inspires respect, but do not bring it to stubbornness.
    2. Gur
      Gur 2 November 2012 12: 43
      0
      The whole problem of Stalinism for the suffering is that, as you rightly noted, the threshing floor fell from the people and most of whom it did not go to before Stalin was gold. When these people did it, and did everything around the marai of honest people, out of fear and their meanness. And when it was all over it was necessary, it was simply necessary to blame someone for your fear. villainy. Since walking crap at first was low, although scary, and then when everything calmed down it was simply embarrassing, because how are they so cool after Stalin’s death, and then both of them from fear. But fear was not out of nowhere, for its deeds. And the time came when it was necessary to wash off your shit and become white and fluffy. And what is dead, everything can be hung on him, he will endure. The main thing is that it is he, not us, who is to blame.
      1. Stary oper
        Stary oper 2 November 2012 21: 39
        +1
        Gur
        It is the system that determines what will be claimed. And it was created under Stalin and with his direct participation. After all, after his death, this was not repeated in the USSR, was it?
    3. Rink
      Rink 2 November 2012 14: 23
      +1
      Quote: Company 8
      .... What are only the decisions of the governing bodies on dispossession, mass unreasonable executions of entire sections of society, permission to mass torture. ....

      And by the way, about the tortures so beloved by the advocates of democracy.
      If the mass use of torture in Stalin’s Russia still needs to be proved, it’s not the only cases that could really take place, but it’s mass; and do not nod at the next Solzhenitsyn, namely prove... (fiction is never considered evidence anywhere, just as the testimony of one person in this case cannot be sufficient), then the massive use of torture by "civilized" countries is a fact they themselves recognized: torture was used by them both during World War II and in the post-war time (see for example here http://mixednews.ru/archives/26336 - pay attention, the article is not "our", translated), and in modern history.
      By the way, the world policeman - the USA - joined the convention against torture ten years later than the USSR, and its domestic legislation has not been brought into line with international standards to this day. Until now, the laws of the vast majority of states in the USA allow the use of torture of prisoners, and the death penalty has not been abolished ... And what about what they do with people in secret CIA prisons scattered around the world, do I need to be reminded? Moreover, in these prisons there are people without trial, it is absolutely illegal both the fact of their being there and the very existence of such institutions. Not to mention the torture used there ...

      Only here are modern humanists and human rights defenders for some reason, the past is more concerned - unproven torture of the Stalin regime, than modern the brutality of the "civilized" "democrats".
    4. Prophetic
      Prophetic 7 November 2012 23: 00
      +1
      This is Stalinism, that Stalinism, Stalinism is dead ... Some stupid cliches, not based on anything. They shoved your face into your lies several times, nothing more but bare stamps left? Who are you trying to convince in these clichés, yourself, us? Stalinism is this time. This is a difficult, difficult and great page in the history of MY country. This story could only be in those conditions, in that environment and with those people. This story must be dealt with honestly, accepting everything: both good and bad. But people like you are not trying to figure it out, but want to cover everything up with black paint, and that's it. I understand that for weak minds the world wants to be simplified, to divide everything into black and white, as before into red and white. But the world is colorful, that's the point. Next to the great is at the same time terrible and nothing else. But the question is, if "Stalinism is dead," then why are you soaring here, why are you lying, dodging? And then, that you understand that the crisis is growing and the most acute phase is only ahead and the impoverishment of the people is inevitable. This means more and more the likelihood of the coming to power of the Communists. And then, my dear friend, many of you, warmly settled at the trough, will begin to be hung on lamp posts for your theft and robbery of a great country. Here is a point that plays.
      PS I bought a land in Spain? It's time, it's time ...
  49. d.gksueyjd
    d.gksueyjd 3 November 2012 16: 08
    -1
    Please pay attention-- over the past few months, how many articles were there about I.V. Stalin? Is it time to close this topic?
    Stalin is STALIN with all the mistakes and wise decisions, and no matter how much slop is poured over him, he will not be worse, and no matter how much he is praised, he will not add fame.
    Now there are more worthy problems, for example: why there is no criminal case on the activities of Yeltsin and "K", when the collapse of the RF Armed Forces will stop, why Mo Serdyukov has not been removed, and many other more pressing topics.
    I think the site is becoming a place where you can "let off steam" and spend time communicating, but I WANTED ANY REAL ACTION, at least within the framework of the law of the Russian Federation
    1. Rink
      Rink 3 November 2012 16: 22
      +1
      Quote: d.gksueyjd
      ....... how many articles were there about I.V. Stalin? Is it time to close this topic? ....

      Why "close", why "close" ?!
      If articles are written, and there is activity in the comments, then not all the dots above the "i" are still placed, and this topic is somehow not indifferent and interesting to people, which means there is a demand for such information and communication.

      Close - undemocratic!

      And the real actions under the law of the Russian Federation and the removal of ministers do not seem to me in the grip of such online forums? For this, there seem to be appropriate structures and bodies ...
      1. Konrad
        Konrad 5 November 2012 16: 21
        0
        Quote: Skating rink
        then not all the dots above the "i" are still placed

        One wretched man got into the bus with a newspaper "Pravda" in his cam and began to remember Stalin - the young people laughed, and the grandmother sent him alone, in our own way, in Russian ...
        1. Rink
          Rink 5 November 2012 21: 43
          0
          Quote: Konrad
          One wretched man got into the bus with a newspaper "Pravda" in his cam and began to remember Stalin - the young people laughed, and the grandmother sent him alone, in our own way, in Russian ...

          I don’t know that there your miserable soared to people in the bus, - I’m not sure that something is really smart.
          But there are different veterans. How is it in a joke?
          "- Did you take part in the war?
          - I was small, I did not fight. Only cartridges for soldiers brought ...
          - And what soldiers praised?
          - Yes, they said "Zer gut!" and they treated coffee ..... "
    2. Strategia
      Strategia 6 November 2012 14: 36
      0
      How he looked into the water about Serdyukov! lol
  50. d.gksueyjd
    d.gksueyjd 3 November 2012 16: 36
    0
    Why? You can arrange a letter to the president or something like that.
    Personally, I can't - only the answer is "accepted for consideration"