Military Review

How did Ukraine get into NATO?

41
How did Ukraine get into NATO?

Everyone has already discussed enough news with the fact that a Ukrainian (there could not have been another) rocket hit the tractor and carried away two citizens of Poland to the next world. I am sure that the loss of these people by mankind can be regretted, since they were really working people who plowed in the field in the truest sense of the word.


The question arises: why or "for" if in Polish.

We will not comment on all the nonsense that a huge crowd of "experts" expresses, but we will look at the situation ourselves. Fortunately, we still have plenty of unclouded brains.

1. Whose rocket flew to Poland


There is no second opinion here, the rocket could only be Ukrainian.


It is enough just to look at the map, it immediately becomes clear that the S-300 air defense missile system simply could not physically fly from the Russian (and by the way, from the Belarusian too) territory.

Why? Because it was a rocket like 5V55R, 5V55RM, 5V55S. And the flight range of these missiles does not exceed 90 km at best. In the worst, standard - 50 km.

Again the question "Why"?

And because the air defense system of Ukraine is armed with S-300 complexes of not the latest modifications.


More precisely, the most recent is the S-300PMU, which comes from the mid-80s of the last century and is a very minor upgrade of the S-300PS. There are in service with the air defense of the Armed Forces of Ukraine and S-300PS, and S-300PT and even S-300V1. But now we are not talking about the military model S-300.

So, we do not have the newest S-300 systems and, accordingly, not the newest missiles for them.

Now optimists can safely say that yes, the S-300PS and PT are already completely archaic, but the S-300PMU - there are quite decent missiles like 48N6, 48N6E2, 9M96E1, 9M96E2.

Yes, in theory, everything is so. But the idea had to be supported by what? That's right, money. And with this type of weaponry, the Ukrainians have always been not very good. I agree that the missiles of the new (compared to 5V55) generation are at the disposal of Ukrainian anti-aircraft gunners could be theoretically, if you close your eyes to the fact that by the time the same 48N6E2 appeared, Russia and Ukraine, to put it mildly, were no longer friends. As for the probability of finding it in practice, then yes, before the start of the SVO, it is quite possible.

But after eight months of warfare - I'm sorry, I won't believe it.

2. What rocket flew?


So, we came to the conclusion that normal missiles for the S-300 air defense system could well have seemed to be in service with the air defense of Ukraine. In theory. And as of February 24.02.2022, XNUMX.

Then everything is like with a credit card: the expense went to the full program. And for eight months, all the S-300s of the Armed Forces of Ukraine that remained in working condition were regularly launching missiles towards Russian flying objects, from UAVs to aircraft.


It is worth remembering here that despite the production of various components and components for rocket technology, there were no enterprises in Ukraine capable of mastering and starting production of missiles for the S-300. And it was not worth waiting for help from the Fakel ICD named after Academician P. D. Grushin.

And it turns out very elementary so everything: the war began. Airplanes, cruise missiles and even motorized unguided bawdy with explosives on board are flying at you, flying slowly but inevitably.

What will you do? Naturally, to engage in saving their infrastructure and reducing the capabilities of the enemy by destroying his equipment. That is, to launch rockets.

And everything will go more or less decently, planes will fall, cruise missiles will not reach their targets, and so on. But over time, the supply of missiles will begin to decline rapidly. The war has been going on for eight months, and there are practically no more missiles. Yes, the allies planted something from their bins, but in general the situation is becoming complicated. You need to shoot, but there is nothing.

What will you do then? That's right, what everyone does in such a situation. The Russian military climbed into long-term storage warehouses and began to rake in wild quantities Tanks T-62, and the Ukrainians began to clean their storage from missiles for the S-300 and Buk.

Quite a normal practice: when the S-300PMU came instead of the S-300PT, the zealous Ukrainians (like all normal people) did not cut the missiles, but put them in warehouses. Just in case.

And this case has come. Everything that was relatively modern has already ended, and stash has been used.

It is very doubtful that the Ukrainians kept something like 48H6E in those same stash, these were most likely in the launcher at the time the hostilities began. And in the warehouses, the 9V55 already mentioned above with different letters at the end were waiting in the wings. Made in the 70-80s of the last century from the S-300 of the first series that came to Ukraine back in the days of the USSR.

So many have confidence that the Ukrainians launched just such a rocket. From the former. This is very logical, by the way - to cover the rear areas with not the best weapons. Cover up on the residual principle and just in case.

3. Why did the rocket fly towards the Poles?



Here everything is simple and guesswork is the least. Since the 70s of the last century, not very positive properties were found in 9V55 missiles: in flight there were cases of redirecting missiles to other objects. It happened at training practical shooting, so it did not bring any damage. But the missiles had such a minus.

Naturally, the work was carried out, the equipment was improved, and by our time, everyone forgot about such a problem because of its complete eradication.

However, why should rockets fired 50 years ago forget about it?

Generally in this stories there are several unknowns. We are completely unaware of the conditions under which the Ukrainians stored the missiles. We do not know what work was carried out in terms of maintaining the operability of missiles and, in particular, control systems. It can be concluded that the storage and maintenance of all parts and mechanisms were not up to par.

And this is also completely logical. It's like demanding high-quality repair of T-64 tanks from the plant in Nizhny Tagil.

Since there is no reliable information about which complex was launched and which rocket went into the sky, it is worth really dwelling on the failure of the guidance system due to the long period from the moment the rocket was launched.

Let's look at old rockets.

The first models of the 5V55 family were aimed at the target by the radio command method on command from the illumination / guidance radar. It was, let's say, the first generation of missiles for the S-300.

The second generation are missiles with semi-active guidance, when the target was illuminated by some kind of external radar, not necessarily from the air defense system.

The third generation, this is just 48N6E, used both the radio command method and the semi-active one. Two in one guidance system.

Further, already in the nineties, missiles with command-inertial and semi-active homing went, and as a result, the last word - missiles with active homing of the 9M96 family.

And here is our situation: a missile that simply cannot find a target without the help of a guidance radar flies to where it is led exactly by commands from the guidance post, which in turn works according to the radar data. And all this splendor works on an air target. Which, as we all understand, moves OVER the surface of the earth at a certain height.

Suddenly, the rocket, obeying commands that are not entirely clear, turns about 90 degrees vertically and seems to find another target for itself. On the ground, definitely out of radar coverage. Well, simply because the radar of the air defense system, or the air defense system itself, does not need to see ground targets at all.

A logical question arises: what can make a missile lose a target that was (and it was) captured by the radar and fly, to put it mildly, in the other direction?

After all, if you carefully look at the map again, you can conclude that the ill-fated rocket was flying from the southeast to the northwest (approximately, but logically), while the Russian missiles were flying ... in exactly the same direction!

Two options. The first one was that the rocket flew in a catch-up course, but lost its target and flew to Poland. The second - the missile was fired towards the target, but turned around and flew to Poland.

In any of the options, the conclusion suggests itself that a complete mess reigned in the head of the rocket (sorry, in the homing head). And the fact that the rocket was aimed (if it was aimed) at the tractor, and many consider this a tragic coincidence, only confirms this.

Polish farmers have been brutally unlucky. The old and thoroughly shattered Ukrainian rocket, which had lain without proper maintenance for more than a dozen years, simply got out of control and flew somewhere. And she flew to the outskirts of the village of Pshevoduv, where she shook everyone with her two explosions.

4. How many rockets were there?


One. Many officials are already talking about this, but the fact is that there was only one missile. And there were two explosions. And this is normal, this is how Ukrainian anti-aircraft gunners ruin their houses, trying to shoot down Russian missiles over cities.

To understand where it exploded the second time, you need to know how the rocket mechanism works. And everything is simple there: start, the rocket flies towards the target, as soon as the rocket approaches the target, the warhead detonation system is triggered and the warhead explodes, sending a charge of either metal balls or rods towards the target.

This is the first explosion that usually occurs in the sky.

The second explosion usually occurs on the ground, where the rocket body with control systems and (most importantly) main engine and fuel supply falls. All the destruction that we saw in Ukrainian cities “from Russian S-300s” is actually the result of an explosion of a main engine and fuel residues. And the less the rocket flew before the warhead was activated, the stronger the explosion would be. Physics and chemistry of pure water.

The Poles, apparently, had a "two in one". And the engine jerked, and the warhead. Apparently, all control of the rocket was turned off, even self-destruction did not work, although in general the Ukrainian operators were supposed to detonate the rocket remotely as soon as they saw that it went to the neighbors. But apparently the rocket "didn't wake up" or was offended by something. And here is the sad result.

5. And what about the Poles with air defense?


Yes, great question. They also claim to be the best army in Europe, they are undergoing modernization, how did it happen that such a hefty contraption as a rocket from the S-300 (7 meters long and 0,5 meters in diameter), which should have been on the radar screens passed unnoticed?

Maybe Przevoduv is located in such an insignificant area that it’s not worth keeping air defense troops there, because there is no one to protect and no one from?

And here it is not. Przewoduv from the Lublin Voivodeship is a border village, but about 20 km from the border. But the most piquant thing in history is that there is just someone to protect!

In Labun, just 40 km from Pszewodow, there is a stationary RAT-31DL standby radar of the Polish army.


The radar is not old, decommissioned, it was brought from Italy only 10 years ago, it has an active phased antenna array with a width of 11 and a height of 7 meters. The RAT-31DL is capable of detecting aerial targets at a maximum distance of up to 500 km and at an altitude of up to 30 km, depending on the RCS of the target.


That is, the radar operators could NOT NOT see the missile. The RAT-0,3DL sees a target with an EPR of 31 m² at a distance of 200 km ... The question is, right?

But maybe there was nothing to counteract?

And again, no! In March of this year, urgently, the US military deployed two batteries of the MIM-130 Patriot air defense system at the Rzeszow-Jasyonka airport, just 104 km from Pszewoduv, and, in full force, along with their radars that monitor the air situation on border of western Ukraine. Behind the former Polish land, so to speak ...


It's interesting how it turns out: there was something to see, there was something to track, there was something to liquidate. According to the assurances of the Americans and their allies, such a target as a missile from the S-300 "Patriot" at once.

Here, apparently, the matter is not only in the rocket. It's about the Polish military, who were frankly engaged in something more important than monitoring the airspace of a neighboring country waging war.

I will allow myself to express one version on the topic of what prevented the Poles from working out options for intercepting a Ukrainian missile.

The variant is called "The Spirit of the Forest". It is also called by the words "ksenzhitsuvka" and "bimber". There may have been other reasons, but mine is quite a vital one. This is the only way to risk explaining why completely modern equipment turned out to be powerless against the old Soviet missile struck by insanity.

Human factor, is that what they call it?

The human factor (Ukrainian) took out a frankly old rocket and used it for its intended purpose, without being convinced of its full performance. By utter poverty. The human factor (Polish) did not see the rocket on the screens of modern radars, the human factor (Polish) could not eliminate the threat with the help of Patriot missiles.

Okay, who doesn't?

That's just real, but where does Russia?


Author:
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  1. Free world
    Free world 18 November 2022 05: 46
    +10
    I think that the Poles wanted and wanted this to happen.
    You can't find a juicy opportunity to take and send troops to Western Ukraine under the guise of protection from "Russian terrorism" and ensuring the "security of Poland's borderlands".
    1. svp67
      svp67 18 November 2022 08: 34
      +2
      Quote: Free World
      I think that the Poles wanted and wanted this to happen.

      They certainly did not expect this, but it seems they could help quite a bit. They have electronic warfare stations deployed nearby, near the scene of the incident. No matter how they try to prevent our CD from fulfilling its task and helping the Ukrainians. In this case, it becomes clear what could go wrong with two S-300 missiles at once
  2. parusnik
    parusnik 18 November 2022 05: 47
    +7
    Ukraine got into NATO, dividends, Russia didn’t receive much from this. It’s good that they figured it out .. and didn’t start ..
  3. Vladimir Vladimirovich Vorontsov
    Vladimir Vladimirovich Vorontsov 18 November 2022 05: 48
    +2
    How did Ukraine get into NATO?

    ***


    ***
  4. Vladimir_2U
    Vladimir_2U 18 November 2022 05: 50
    +4
    Ukraine finally got into the EU and NATO - but there is one caveat! laughing
    And from the funnel it was clear that it was neither Caliber nor X-101. Small funnel.
    1. KCA
      KCA 18 November 2022 07: 26
      0
      Yesterday I watched a video of the Caliber flight, they shot the sky there, the hit was not shown, but there was a sound, it buzzed and then it clicked, sharply, bitingly, like a rifle shot
  5. Aerodrome
    Aerodrome 18 November 2022 06: 47
    +6

    Polish farmers have been brutally unlucky.
    no matter how it was, but condolences to the relatives of ordinary Polish farmers, this is not a Russophobic government, but simple hard workers.
  6. Egoza
    Egoza 18 November 2022 06: 57
    -1
    Or maybe everything is easier? The lads got drunk and decided to arrange fireworks for the godfather's birthday! But they fired in the wrong direction! )))
    1. Nexcom
      Nexcom 18 November 2022 07: 33
      0
      Maybe they just didn’t get drunk and were under the substances? They wrote on VO that NATO supplies them well with all sorts of stimulants.
    2. paul3390
      paul3390 18 November 2022 09: 25
      +3
      The rocket is as old as mammoth shit. Under what conditions it was stored - it is not clear. But it is solid fuel, checkers could easily lose their condition during this time. And then - the flight becomes fundamentally unpredictable ..
  7. The comment was deleted.
  8. Kuroneko
    Kuroneko 18 November 2022 07: 53
    0
    Quote: Vladimir_2U
    Ukraine finally got into the EU and NATO - but there is one caveat! laughing
    And from the funnel it was clear that it was neither Caliber nor X-101. Small funnel.

    It's not a funnel. An ordinary pit, which was there before, therefore, a flooring of beams was laid on top of it. In general, everything looks very much like a joint dill-Pshek provocation.
  9. Vladimir M
    Vladimir M 18 November 2022 08: 29
    0
    It seems that this was a provocation organized by Ukraine and Poland under the leadership of Britain to draw the entire NATO into the conflict. But this is exactly what the United States does not need, they do not want to directly participate in hostilities with Russia. Britain is now in charge of all processes in Ukraine.
  10. kor1vet1974
    kor1vet1974 18 November 2022 08: 46
    +6
    What is there to discuss? Biden, he said that the rocket was Ukrainian, and the whole world agreed, it means Ukrainian, he would say that it was Russian, everyone would agree that it was Russian. It would be necessary to call it Chinese. laughing
  11. engineer74
    engineer74 18 November 2022 09: 16
    +2
    Hm ... Only one thing: the Poles, with all their desire, could not eliminate the missile - the speeds of the S-300 and MIM-104 missiles are approximately the same, i.e. one to the "target" (tractor) had to fly 20-30 km, the other to the likely meeting point 130-150 km (I take from the moment of understanding that "something went wrong"). So, the Poles did the right thing, otherwise a couple of Patriot missiles would have found their targets! wassat
    IMHO hi
    1. your1970
      your1970 18 November 2022 10: 05
      +1
      Quote: engineer74
      it remained to fly 20-30 km, the other to the likely meeting point 130-150 km

      Actually, they couldn’t know the end point of the flight. Therefore, they were obliged to try to shoot down.
      What if this is a rocket with nuclear weapons? After all, the war is 3 steps away ...
      1. Force
        Force 18 November 2022 11: 01
        0
        Hm ... Only one but:

        There is one more…. The range of the Patriot PAC-3, he could not get with all his desire.
  12. north 2
    north 2 18 November 2022 09: 54
    +1
    if an American reconnaissance drone saw where the Ukrainian S-300 missile was launched from, then the same drone saw whether there was an attack by a Russian missile or a Russian drone in that area, to intercept which, they say, a Ukrainian missile was launched. According to its performance characteristics, the s-300 flies not so far along the aerodynamic trajectory, km 75, so the Americans saw that the missile launch was just a shot in the air ... And since the Russian strikes were far away for them to be intercepted by the S-300 missile from this of a specific division, so that, according to its performance characteristics, the S-300 from its place of deployment would fly to the trajectories of Russian missiles and Russian UAVs that then carried out strikes on Western Ukraine and that Russian missiles strike from the east and the Ukrainian S-300 missile flew in the opposite direction to the west, that's why even the Americans were horrified by such amateur performances by Zelensky, the Armed Forces of Ukraine and Poland.
    However, one would not have to wait for mercy from the Americans if similar Russian reconnaissance drones hung for days on end not far from the border with Ukraine in Russia and Belarus, just like the American ones hang not far from the border with Ukraine in Poland ... and sees everything ...
    By the way, were those two dead people? Who are they ? No reports from the funeral in local newspapers and on youtube, no at the place where the rocket fell, no names, no addresses ...
    1. seacap
      seacap 18 November 2022 12: 24
      0
      There, AWACS is constantly dangling along the border in 24x7 mode, the airspace (and not only) of the floor of the European part of the Russian Federation is under careful control.
    2. Far_Observer
      Far_Observer 19 November 2022 01: 18
      0
      The missile hit an enterprise storing grain in granaries, this can be seen from afar in the photo.

      Official information from the Polish press about the funeral. The funeral of Boguslaw V. is scheduled for Saturday (19.11), and Bogdan S - for Sunday (20.11).

      Both ceremonies should be of a state nature, at the expense of the Polish government. The church is preparing for the celebrations, the first will take place on Saturday, the second on Sunday. We are preparing temples for both burials. Everything is going smoothly, I'm planning this funeral just like everyone else in the ward, oh. Bogdan Vazny, rector of the parish of St. Brother Albert in Przevodovo. The funeral mass will be officiated by the bishop.

      https://cdn.galleries.smcloud.net/t/galleries/gf-ciMH-PB5u-FGmQ_przewodow-po-tragedii-wojsko-przy-granicy-664x0-nocrop.jpg
  13. vvn_vl
    vvn_vl 18 November 2022 10: 44
    0
    no matter how scary it is, but now, according to Ukrainian tradition, we expect to get into a passenger plane
    1. seacap
      seacap 18 November 2022 12: 02
      0
      It was already, yesterday only one more clowns, depicting the court, read out the verdict.
  14. Master 2030
    Master 2030 18 November 2022 11: 08
    0
    What is alarming is not so much the very fact of the "arrival" of the Ukrainian missile in NATO, but the unanimous reaction of the collective "West". What would that mean? Stsykotno or there is an agreement?
  15. The comment was deleted.
  16. seacap
    seacap 18 November 2022 12: 00
    +1
    A clickable title built on a play on words, with attempts at wit, with a distortion of the very meaning of the article, somehow childish, not at all serious for this site. It seems to me that to discuss in such detail by all the media the hysterical and ultimately degraded, both morally and intellectually, a pack of clowns of this under-formation, created on the foundation of lies, betrayal by misunderstanding, from the bleating of which, even their owners and shepherds are hysterical, is already bad manners, there is more pressing and real problems.
  17. seacap
    seacap 18 November 2022 12: 21
    +1
    SAM, any anti-aircraft ammunition (except BZT) in all countries of the world (there are not so many of them) self-destructs in the air in the event of a miss or loss of control commands (their reset). This was done in order not to inflict fire damage on their covered troops and objects. In extreme cases (too expensive), it is possible to use missiles of some complexes for influencing ground targets, but for this the entire control loop and the method of guiding the missile must be changed, and most importantly, the radio fuse is turned off with the self-liquidator turned off and the PIM mode is changed to the fuse mode (if simple), i.e. a complex (not at all fast) of preliminary preparatory work was carried out. Which indicates a non-random launch, which in itself is impossible when using collective weapons, which the air defense system is.
    1. futurohunter
      futurohunter 21 November 2022 18: 25
      0
      Or maybe just faulty rockets and crooked little hands of technicians and operators?
      1. seacap
        seacap 21 November 2022 20: 28
        0
        It doesn’t roll, it won’t work, just like that and by chance nothing will work here, the technique and protection is designed for the most miserable, i.b. this is a collective weapon, the first one must be a virtuoso and a pro at the level of an experienced battalion commander or deputy, consciously know what and why you are doing, perform all preparatory operations for all numbers of calculations and parts of a technical battery. Yes, and even if there was no target capture by the homing head, then the rocket does not fly in the opposite direction from the target, which, in theory, should have moved from the east, it would simply self-destruct, but when flying towards the target.
        1. futurohunter
          futurohunter 22 November 2022 09: 32
          0
          Why I made such an assumption: there have already been cases when Ukrainian missiles flew anywhere and hit anything. Long before the current events, Ukrainian missiles accidentally shot down a regular Tu-154 flying from Novosibirsk to Israel. Whatever the perfect product, inept users (technicians and operators) can screw it up. An old rocket, half of the blocks of which simply do not function due to old age, plus inept maintenance and non-compliance with regulations, inept control of the rocket on the trajectory, etc. With a deliberate strike on Poland, it would be more expedient for the ukram to use not the S-300, but the same Tochki-U. First, there are no Russian S-300s in those areas. But there are points in Belarus, and they may well fly there.
          I do not defend ukrov, I just got the impression of their curvature for a long time. More precisely, that it is very common among them. This has been reported many times already. Make a fool pray to God - so he will hurt his forehead ...
  18. Ulan.1812
    Ulan.1812 18 November 2022 12: 49
    +1
    And I would not rule out a planned provocation.
    No wonder the ukroshumers are torn to the place of the fall.
    They worked rudely, because they did not know the time of the next Russian missile raid.
    But let down that the rocket hit the tractor and killed two Poles.
    And apparently they hoped that it would fall into an empty place.
    Gang Ze really needs to be drawn into the NATO war in order to save their rotten skins.
    Isolation of Russia at the twenty did not work, so new provocations are needed.
    And they certainly will be.
  19. know
    know 18 November 2022 13: 06
    +2
    The Poles have actually forgiven the Volyn Massacre to Bandera. Already 2 corpses of rural poor fellows will be forgiven all the more.
  20. Alex_ekb
    Alex_ekb 18 November 2022 14: 00
    0
    Yesterday, in the evening broadcast on Zvezda, one of the presenters blurted out: the rocket is induced to heat, but the engine of the tractor was running, so it was aimed at him.
    Sarcasm did not seem to be noticeable, and none of the experts in the studio denied this nonsense.
    Do these presenters, or who writes texts for them there, in general, even in the slightest degree, do not delve into the issue.

    It was embarrassing for them.
    1. Former soldier
      Former soldier 18 November 2022 16: 49
      -1
      Yesterday, in the evening broadcast on Zvezda, one of the presenters blurted out: the rocket is induced to heat, but the engine of the tractor was running, so it was aimed at him.

      Then I had to look at the nearest chimney in the village. angry The temperature there should be higher than the tractor radiator.
  21. MBRSS
    MBRSS 18 November 2022 20: 47
    0
    The jokes in the article are, of course, fun for someone, but for the sake of objectivity, I’ll note: a supersonic air defense missile overcomes 20 km so quickly (in 20-30 seconds) that ours could easily slam, and not just the Poles .
  22. iouris
    iouris 18 November 2022 21: 11
    0
    That's why our fathers-Baidyn began to prove across the board that it was not them? An ominous silence - that's what scares. Do you want to use Article 5? Let's. The operation failed miserably. Shame.
    Besides, if you make excuses, then you are guilty.
  23. Sergei N 58912062
    Sergei N 58912062 19 November 2022 00: 00
    0
    Got into NATO lol sorry "gentlemen" Poles

  24. lopvlad
    lopvlad 19 November 2022 00: 07
    0
    And this is also completely logical. It's like demanding high-quality repair of T-64 tanks from the plant in Nizhny Tagil.


    it is unnecessary to belittle Uralvagonzavod, since it is currently the only plant in the world where high-quality repair of T-64 tanks is possible.

    The RAT-31DL is capable of detecting aerial targets at a maximum distance of up to 500 km and at an altitude of up to 30 km, depending on the RCS of the target.
    и
    According to the assurances of the Americans and their allies, such a target as a missile from the S-300 "Patriot" at once.


    as we all know, using the example of "Geraniums", what to see does not mean to shoot down, and Petriot has already managed what is called many times.


    The human factor (Ukrainian) took out a frankly old rocket and used it for its intended purpose, without being convinced of its full performance. By utter poverty. The human factor (Polish) did not see the rocket on the screens of modern radars, the human factor (Polish) could not eliminate the threat with the help of Patriot missiles.



    when for a successful flight of a rocket into the territory of Poland it is necessary for so many factors to come together, the thought involuntarily creeps in that someone deliberately provided them with these very factors.
    But there were two unforeseen factors that could not be thought through.
    Namely, the regular self-destruction of the rocket did not occur on the team of the Ukrainian operator, and Polish farmers with their tractor ended up in the field on the way of its fall.
    As a result, we get a receipt for unambiguous identification from a photo, not even by experts, a rocket, a destroyed Polish tractor and two victims in the form of Polish farmers
    And just like that, the carefully thought-out Ukrainian-Polish operation to draw NATO into a direct conflict with Russia failed.
  25. Luenkov
    Luenkov 19 November 2022 21: 24
    0
    A strange and long discussion about how ALL missiles flew to the west and poisoned jokes about NATO air defense. And the Ukrainians from the rzhaki wanted, as of old, to catch the civilian Tu and overthrow it. The trouble is that the Tu-134s in Poland ended with Konchinsky ... I had to look for a red tractor.
  26. Luenkov
    Luenkov 19 November 2022 21: 29
    0
    [quote = lopvlad] [quote] And this is also completely logical. It's like demanding a high-quality repair of T-64 tanks from a plant in Nizhny Tagil. [/ Quote]

    it is unnecessary to belittle Uralvagonzavod, since it is currently the only plant in the world where high-quality repair of T-64 tanks is possible.

    [quote] The RAT-31DL is capable of detecting air targets at a maximum distance of up to 500 km and at an altitude of up to 30 km, depending on the RCS of the target.
    [/quote] and
    [quote] According to the assurances of the Americans and their allies, such a target as a missile from the S-300 "Patriot" at a time. [/ Quote]

    as we all know, using the example of "Geraniums", what to see does not mean to shoot down, and Petriot has already managed what is called many times.


    [quote] The human factor (Ukrainian) took out a frankly old rocket and used it for its intended purpose, without making sure that it was fully functional. By utter poverty. The human factor (Polish) did not see the missile on the screens of modern radars, the human factor (Polish) could not eliminate the threat with the help of Patriot missiles. [/ Quote]


    when for a successful flight of a rocket into the territory of Poland it is necessary for so many factors to come together, the thought involuntarily creeps in that someone deliberately provided them with these very factors.
    But there were two unforeseen factors that could not be thought through.
    Namely, the regular self-destruction of the rocket did not occur on the team of the Ukrainian operator .......... the direct conflict with Russia failed. [/ Quote
    Self-destruction bulo tama? And farmers in a count of 2 pcs. pulled in a trailer? Villagers don't write in district websites?
  27. O. Bender
    O. Bender 21 November 2022 09: 54
    0
    In my opinion, this is pure provocation with unpredictable consequences. Ukrainian soldiers deliberately fired on the territory of Pshekia to blame Russia for this. And that's why, let's consider the purely technical side of what happened.
    1. Zur, in the event of a breakdown in auto-tracking of an air target in automatic mode, goes to self-destruction to the maximum height to run out of fuel and then detonate warheads. No Makar takes part in this process, everything works automatically according to the programmed program.
    2. Zrk with 300, some modifications have the ability to fire at ground or surface targets, the effectiveness of which is not always high due to many conditions and restrictions, but still possible.
    3. I admit the probability of a missile malfunction, which did not allow it to go to self-destruction. But, the probability of the second missile not going to self-destruction, with its fall practically in the same funnel with the first, to put it mildly, is negligible.
    So the conclusions about the launch of missiles at a ground target on the territory of Poland fit perfectly into the plans of the Ukrainian government to spoil Russia, no matter what outsiders would suffer. In addition, very miserable actions clearly allow thoughts of amateurs and non-professionals in the structures that developed this provocation.
    My reasoning is based solely on information from the media, I have no details and nuances that could supplement or change the meaning of my comment.
  28. futurohunter
    futurohunter 21 November 2022 18: 06
    0
    Questions:
    1. Can the GOS SAM target a ground object? I doubt very much that this S-300 is generally aimed at something
    2. Regarding the "Patriots" - is it really capable of shooting down air defense missiles, such as the S-300? Evil tongues say that during the "Desert Storm", the "Patriots" did not shoot down a single (!) Iraqi missile!
  29. futurohunter
    futurohunter 21 November 2022 18: 28
    0
    In fact, the Poles didn't paint the tractor red, blue and white and spelled "Armata" in Polish. They played reenactors ... So the hand of the Ukrainian operator could not stand it ...
  30. seacap
    seacap 21 November 2022 20: 50
    0
    Quote: lopvlad
    According to the assurances of the Americans and their allies, such a target as a missile from the S-300 "Patriot" at once.

    Well, well, for example, the Israelis at one time Patriot did not shoot down the ancient "log" 9M21 of the 9K52 "Luna-M" complex and 3Р1 2К1 "Mars, when they were shelled by Iraq, however, the amers did not succeed with the Saudis where they were not even "handicraft" missiles made in the basement on the knee by the Yemenis were hit, and we are talking about a small-sized high-speed maneuvering low-flying target with a speed of about 5 Mach.
    Yes, and the tractor with a trailer is not very similar, that almost 200 kg of OF warhead missiles exploded nearby. For example, there are a bunch of videos where much smaller SAM warheads exploded in Kyiv, when the facades of buildings were completely demolished by fragments and not a single glass in the area, and small pieces remain from the aircraft. cut by fragments.