Don't talk nonsense, you can't sit in the same trench with us!

629
Don't talk nonsense, you can't sit in the same trench with us!

Another riot, captured on video, excites the Internet. Everyone must have already seen what happened in Alabino, when a unit of mobilized people practically wiped their feet on Mr. Lieutenant Colonel.

Links to telegram channels, because this is not worth posting here, because the sound track will have to be removed. The mobilized comrades and the lieutenant colonel deign to speak not only in raised tones, but also in Russian folk swearing.



Riot in Alabino
Opinions were divided. Some (most incomprehensible) part of the Internet began to yell that everyone should be sent to a penal battalion / disbat / prison, but we do not touch these gentlemen in any way. Let them howl from the sofas, this is the norm of our life today.

We are going to talk to the audience a little calmer and more reasonable. We are, in fact, myself and two heads, with whom I can discuss any issue related to the army. A triumvirate with comrades Colonel Alexander Staver and comrade Lieutenant Colonel Alexei Kuznetsov, representing two eras of army evolution. Very bright minds, however, this is not our first collaboration (especially with Staver).

Rebels


Let's start with, what are the mobiki dissatisfied with? Liquid soup? No. Lack of rest and entertainment? No. Heavy loads? Also no! Yes, there is dissatisfaction with the equipment. But it is in the background. And what then is on the first floor of these men screaming obscenities?

And they have a claim to the colonel that they are not prepared to fight in the way it should be done in the opinion of the mobilized. Drill training, charters and three shootings with 15 rounds in two weeks, you understand, they are not satisfied! They need more!


Here you need to exhale and just salute such mobilized people. Who strongly desire to use the time to prepare for military affairs in a real way. And they were given as leaders / bosses a mumbling who frankly does not care about this training.

It is not for nothing that people from the crowd are yelling in the face of Mr. Colonel “You don’t give a damn about us, you can’t sit in the same trench with us!”.

Then we began to look for why everything is so bad, why the mobilized people exploded like that. And they found other shots, where in the same Alabino, only at another officer (real) they drive “mobiles” so that only steam comes down! Moreover, everything is very competently built there, and the personnel of tactical medicine can simply be used as a manual, the instructor works so competently. Yes, he yells in the style of a US Army sergeant, but he works out automatics. In battle, so that they don’t think, but turn, pull, drag, prick and bandage at full automatic.

Proper preparation in Alabino
We, as people who understand a lot, highly appreciated.

That's why there was a conflict. One for the full program, the second - the minimum wage. Everything really depends on the commander. The colonel turned out to be a crappy commander, and even without authority among his subordinates.

And yes, about respect there for rank and position. What clouds of indignant readers wrote about in the same Cart. Dear you, ours, it’s like a war is going on here.

In general, according to the incident: the mobilized handsome men are right to demand that they be prepared for battles, respect and understanding. The methods are not very good, but here who studied what. The colonel is a jelly, who is clearly a little before retirement, so he doesn’t need anything. He does not know how to talk, he does not know how to command, he does not use authority among his subordinates at all. What is he doing in the army? That's right, he pays the mortgage and earns an early pension. What do you need? Arrange an early exit, because there is little benefit from it. More undermining the authority and discrediting the army.

And now let's talk about the essential. About what it was necessary to start fighting yesterday, because today it turned out to be a little late. About the problems that crawled out like snakes from under the deck.

1. Who cooks and who commands


Absolutely poor-quality staff responsible for the training of the mobilized. It can be traced very clearly, where the officers are literate and root for their work, there are no scandals. And there are many such training centers, you can even say that there are more of them than those where problems arise.

We can say that Alabino is a super-criminal place, yes. And not to sin at all, but everything is going as it should with the neighbors of the rebellious "mobiks". In the same Alabino. Indeed, it is not the place that makes the man, but the man the place.

The fact that a colonel was appointed to such a place, who really does not care how the mobilized will be prepared, can be seen in relation to him. Let's not say anything, you deserve it. And, to our great regret, we have an excess of such generals and colonels in our army today. In connection with the beginning of the SVO, not everyone managed to file a report on dismissal, not everyone. There are those who expect to see out until the bright holiday of a legal pension.

But the main problem is that those who are trying to prepare “mobiks” have nothing to do with the real war in general and the war in Ukraine in particular.

2. Respect for shoulder straps and positions


Sometimes one gets the impression that the teaching staff of military institutes and academies was left to train the mobilized. And it's very noticeable.

The fact is that long work as a teacher discourages. The officer begins to get used to the unquestioning obedience of the cadets. And here, instead of docile and obedient cadets, they are mobilized. Yes, not the boys who served urgently yesterday, but real boars 40+ who left their families, jobs, and businesses. And who have the right to demand from would-be commanders, to demand that they be prepared in a real way, because they are going to return back.

It is understandable that some commanders do not care about this from the height of the Ostankino TV tower, but when such an angry bear starts asking questions, they will have to answer. Of course, “I will break one limb at the headquarters every 15 minutes” is too much, but I am sure that they will not just move at the headquarters. They will call the National Guard, OMON ... In general, we will have to react.

In general, the shameful attitude to shoulder straps and positions was not laid down yesterday. Back in 2014, when in the LDNR they looked at a Russian officer as if they were a messenger from heaven. But, alas, the messengers were not very good. We wrote at one time that God knows what kind of preparation cannot be demanded of advisers, because a normal commander of a unit will not let a decent officer leave himself. With them, and so there is a shortage all the time, and here it’s still not clear where and how much to send. That's when it faltered.

And when the same thing “happened”, not advisers, but commanders arrived in the LDNR. "Uncleared", as they are called. And it turned out that the armies of the republics seem to be the same, but the commanders have changed. And the regiment is commanded by a Russian officer, and the deputy is a local, who is no worse, in the regiment from the first day, he started as a company commander in 2014, he knows the situation, but ... But they began to appoint local deputies.

And ours behaved far from beautifully often. Enough frankly arrogant, arrogant and not particularly trained, but demanding respect and unquestioning obedience commanders.

But we have a war right now ... And they told me about a case when such a deputy, on the order to go and take a farm (I will omit the name with your permission), calmly replied to the “customs-cleared”: “Excellent. Take your people and get started. And our people will see how to do it.” There was an attack, but later, after additional preparations, the farm was not taken, and it was not needed, but there were practically no losses. Actually, what the deputy needed.

And all subordination and servility in the trenches go to the eighth plane in the rear. Because the war. And many former militias today rightly say that the only thing that the Russian army brought in abundance to the army of Donbass is charters and drill. What the hulls needed the least. But there is nothing more to carry ...

And if we talk about respect, then you should look at the Donbass camps and training centers. There are often teachers - privates and sergeants, veterans. "Veteran" is Latin for "survivor". Here veterans of Lisichansk, Izvarin, Donetsk and Debaltseve work there. Prepare the fighters. And no complaints, no complaints. Why? Because they are preparing to fight, and not to mint a step at the parade. And by the way, these are not colonels of pre-retirement age, these are the same guys 30-40, whose tongue is normally suspended, who can explain sensibly and quickly.

It is clear that their efficiency is much higher than that of colonels with notes and training manuals. And they respect them not because they have a lot of stars, but because they know their business.

3. Charter and drill


Here one unfortunate blogger, the Telegram star, amused us by writing that “combat training is the most important stage of combat coordination”. We appreciated the joke, laughed. They realized that this comrade knows how to use the letters Z, V and O to the place and without it, but he served - this is unlikely.

Combatant as a PART of combat coordination in PEACETIME completely. It is quite possible for a combatant to take the free time of conscripts so that stupid thoughts do not enter their heads. Drill is useful as part of a parade show.

But during the war ... combatant ... charters ...

I'll give you an example. Here is a not very high-quality recording of one Parade.


This is May 9, 2015, the city of Donetsk. Well, it is clear that for some time these people were being prepared for the solemn passage. I can appreciate it, since I myself am a participant in the parades on Red Square. Two. You can immediately watch Moscow after Donetsk and compare.

But these people, who frankly did not shine with combat training, did not have very even ranks, possessed one immeasurably more valuable thing - they were winners. Real. Genuine. Not dressed up. They fought for two years and eventually marched with their own parade.

Ask anyone who was in the Donbass at that time whether his skills in drill training were so valuable, or would the ability to quickly equip a magazine and apply a tourniquet with high quality be more valuable?

I am sure of the answer, so I will not say anything. The nonsense driven by representatives of our mortgage troops and biased bloggers is simply mind-boggling.

The fact that the Charter is often useless in a war, our people understood back in Afghanistan. More precisely, the spirits taught. Who served, remember the sentry insanity? Defended, a vigilant shift, which again drives the charters and wash the guard, a resting shift, which quickly becomes very active, because the school officer on duty (in our cases) hit the head with an alarm for the guard to arrange and read the "charms" of military service?

And this is what our comrade officers steadfastly carried in units. And the soldiers were "taught" the same. So that two hours at the post seemed like a rest. The "spirits" quickly saw through this and began to visit and simply cut out the personnel, taking advantage of the fact that there was no guard.

Charter and drill you just need to take and postpone until better times. Let's just say, to victory. While we have only retreats, flights and regroupings in our asset over the past six months, it is worth waiting and teaching other things.

4. What instead?


Yes, an intelligent person already understands what should be instead of the stupid use of charters in unlimited quantities and drill to bloody calluses. These are not components of a real victory, whatever one may say. This is an excuse for sheep in uniform that they were doing something there. Type of work with personnel.

You need to learn what is really needed in battle. Correct movement, shooting from everything: machine gun, machine gun, grenade launcher, sniper. So that a really trained fighter could take on other tasks. Replace a retired machine gunner, for example. Or a grenade launcher when Tanks the enemy are moving into position.

Dig, dig and dig. Place mines, remove mines, look for mines. Avoid min. Throw away grenades. Apply tourniquets, transport the wounded, bandage. Yes, many useful things can be taught by those who have already fought.

That's what should be instead of taking out the brain by statutes. Charters are good, they are also written in blood, but everything has its time. "Mobiki" in Alabino were right, they will not go marching in formation to Ukraine. Fight. And they need to be prepared accordingly.

By the way, preparation is a very difficult thing. I understand very little how it is possible to prepare a person, say, in the Urals, for a war near Donetsk. The landscape is completely different. And the war in the northern part of Ukraine is fundamentally different from the war in the southern part. And if you look in the Zadneprovye ...

In order to properly train fighters, we need not only training grounds with a similar terrain, but also instructors who fought in those places. Knowing the subtleties and features, understanding the strengths and weaknesses of the environment.

And such people, and not mortgage holders in uniform, should train fighters. Of course, if we need exactly the fighters, and not the numbers in the reports.

What happened in Alabino shows the problem and from here we can even outline the way to solve it. Of course, deciding the way Leshkov did is not the best way. Leadership qualities can be realized differently, without sinking to the level of camouflaged squalor. But the problem of preparation is a very important problem, so as not to notice it.

We want all the departed to come back as much as possible, don't we?

***
Necessary postscript: The Odintsovo garrison military court has taken into custody mobilized serviceman Alexander Leshkov until January 14, 2023. Leshkov is suspected of inflicting beatings on the chief, committed during the performance of his duties of military service or in connection with the performance of these duties, during the period of mobilization (part 3 of article 334 of the Criminal Code of the Russian Federation) and of insulting the subordinate of the chief (part 2 of article 336 Criminal Code of the Russian Federation). He faces up to 15 years in prison.
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  1. -15
    16 November 2022 05: 13
    And one more addition - there is no single standard for minimum training, this is when, regardless of the terrain, season, etc. there is a development of typical shooting techniques, tactical techniques, elementary sapper and medical training. In short, now someone is good at anything - someone can, and someone does not shine with intelligence or imagination, and even scores on charters ...
    And the mobilized coast beguiled and did not see the edges ...
    1. +64
      16 November 2022 06: 21
      Therefore, should the mobilized be allowed to shoot once every two weeks, and the rest of the time they should train the drill, learn the regulations and disassemble / assemble the AK?
      1. +41
        16 November 2022 06: 52
        Quote: Saladine
        Therefore, should the mobilized be allowed to shoot once every two weeks, and the rest of the time they should train the drill, learn the regulations and disassemble / assemble the AK?

        So this is why?
        And as for the charters ... When, upon arrival at the LBS, they build up practically in full view of the enemy and forget about dispersal, is this according to your charter? After all, the charter can also be combat ...
        1. +23
          16 November 2022 08: 03
          The soldier will be exemplarily imprisoned. Giving an example of how to "slope" while already in the unit. But the video of such conflicts has already done its "work" now such relationships will expand.
          1. +15
            16 November 2022 10: 10
            "Dear" couch expert, read Khodakovsky's post on this topic https://xn--80affa3aj0al.xn--80asehdb/#@aleksandr_skif. Here are his words: "I described this episode in order to make it clearer how dangerous people are at the front, who even at the collection points demonstrate a lack of discipline and a desire to assert themselves in the eyes of free spectators. Of course, there are enough reasons for dissatisfaction - but at the front, those poor conditions in which the mobilized are before dispatch may seem like paradise, because there is not just sitting in the damp earth, but also shooting. And if you do not accustom recruits to discipline immediately, then simply leaving positions may not get off.
            I think Khodakovsky understands the topic more than you and the authors of the article. He has been fighting for 8 years. How much are you???
            1. +53
              16 November 2022 11: 46
              Quote: Okolotochny
              I think Khodakovsky understands the topic more than you and the authors of the article. He has been fighting for 8 years.

              A question for you about Khodakovsky - is he also right in assessing the assault on Pavlovka? wink (specific accusation of Akhmetov and Muradov) The answer is obligatory, laughing
              As for those mobilized, it is clear that the conditions on the front line will be many times worse, but did anyone in Alabino complain about the conditions? No, there were specific complaints about the lack of preparation. In Roshinsky, Samara region. the same nonsense. Virtually nothing is taught. They eat for a month and a half and with ... t. The question is to the organization of mobilization, and to the organizers, and not to the mobilized. Now there are a lot of people who have left due to injury or injury. Why can't they be involved in the preparation of mobiles? The system once again shows its impotence.
              1. +18
                16 November 2022 12: 22
                What does the assault on Pavlovka have to do with it? A person cannot be right in everything, this is an obvious banality. But in what he said about training, he is one hundred percent right. And in general, now is not the situation to continue to lie and hide. 300 thousand have already been mobilized, another 200 are already there, plus the flow of refugees. Many have acquaintances who are directly related to the war, one way or another, and it will no longer be possible to hide the truth.
                1. +11
                  16 November 2022 13: 15
                  Quote: Beringovsky
                  What does the assault on Pavlovka have to do with it? A person cannot be right in everything, this is an obvious banality.

                  Khodakovsky is right in both cases. My question to the person is essentially a control one - Okolotochny with a clear pro-government opinion (in my opinion, the leader of the bot farm). According to the situation in Pavlovka, the authorities are clearly covering up generals Muradov and Akhmetov, making the commander of the marine brigade the last. Khodakovsky speaks directly about this. hi
                  1. -20
                    16 November 2022 15: 36
                    Wow, the head of the virtual sofa wrestlers himself !!! What kind of people without a convoy?
                    Right, wrong ... Don't go where you are like a pig in oranges ... you don't understand a damn thing. A man has been fighting for 8 years and correctly said for discipline. Calm down your sect of wrestlers who climb precisely in such provocative articles. There were already "soldiers' committees". Remind me how it ended? And at 41, at 42? And in the 43rd, too, was "everything" good? How lucky you are that there was no internet back then. You would be the first on order No. 227 to the wall. And rightly so. The provocateurs of the first need not be sowed in the immature minds of panic that "everything is lost." Or in the Soviet army, where did the authors of the article come from? And the snow was not laid at an angle of 45 degrees? And the puddles on the parade grounds were not swept away? And the drill did not do 2 hours a day? Combat techniques with weapons, combat techniques without weapons? Wasn't it? Since they are so smart, then from the couch, to the military registration and enlistment office and by their example of a know-it-all to teach everyone in the NWO zone.
                    1. +22
                      16 November 2022 15: 45
                      Quote: Okolotochny
                      Or in the Soviet army, where did the authors of the article come from?

                      No, but it was, especially in recent years. but even then, it was many times better with support and combat training, especially who was trained in Afghanistan. And the generals who were at fault were expelled with a wolf ticket, and during the Second World War they were shot. And I think you know it. In addition, it is stupid to compare training in peacetime and wartime.
                      P.S. It is not easy for your brethren to tidy up for power lately. Too often and on a large scale she messes up. And only a fool does not understand where all this crap leads. But you still guard for a paycheck. These 30 silversmiths will backfire on you. Soon.
                      1. -10
                        16 November 2022 16: 23
                        It is not easy for your brethren to tidy up for power lately. Too often and on a large scale she messes up. And only a fool does not understand where all this crap leads.

                        Yes, it is much easier to slander "your brethren" without creating or offering anything. A sort of "outside observers" with the eternal motto - FSE is gone, boss !!!
                      2. +12
                        17 November 2022 09: 28
                        And who is yelling about everything is lost? Have you tried reading the article at all? It also says that in the same Alabino there is another preparation. or Chukchi - a writer?
                      3. -8
                        17 November 2022 15: 52
                        I do not know who you are - a Chukchi or a writer. I read this article, essno. And a lot of material before it. I have my own opinion about fsepropals and Ingvar is one of this herd. Join now, don't be shy.
                      4. +2
                        17 November 2022 19: 14
                        The question is not about all the propellers, but about the competence of a number of officers, how do you differ from them then? The same troublemaker.
                        If you haven’t read I’m saying that in the Crimea we have no problems with training mobs, at least in shooting, you can hear how they shoot. Of course, a subordinate had no right to express his dissatisfaction with assault, but could he ask uncomfortable questions? We see only the video, but what answer did he get?
                        Of course, there are inadequate people, but how then did the medical board miss such a mobile, can you tell me?
                        I myself work in commerce, and if I worked like our officials, I would sit on the ground and water, and how military officials differ from the same civil ones. that I encounter on a daily basis?
                        Our ministry periodically gives us something, such as look how cool, and you see in advance that it won’t work. Tue and here the person saw that he was doing a bunch of things. only they don’t teach him to fight, is it something from the genre of the impossible?
                      5. -13
                        16 November 2022 18: 05
                        Also for the Samara sofa specialty - https://xn--80affa3aj0al.xn--80asehdb/#@wargonzo
                        The opinion of a peasant who has been fighting for more than a year is a goon and. That is, all your support is the support of the redneck and. Are you like this? And there is no need to go into your wrestling verbiage. I gave the opinion of fighting men who have been fighting for more than a year. From your sect, as usual, some slogans. You are not capable of more.
                        Soon? Oh well. A fool is getting richer with his thoughts ... Ingvar, you are an outright slogan and verbiage. There was nothing to say, so right behind Makhmudov, Akhmedov ... Do you work part-time as a cleaner in the General Staff in your free time from wrestling work? Well then, yes ... specialist)))
                      6. +12
                        16 November 2022 19: 42
                        Quote: Okolotochny
                        wargonzo:

                        A pro-government military commander, although he was blown up. I.I. Strelkov gave him the best description. Maxim Fomin described what happened much better. But everything is clear with you for a long time, redneck and period. And the fact that this "redneck" said everything on the topic, the Kremlin bots do not want to discuss, right? wink
                        Quote: Okolotochny
                        and here: "Khodakovsky is right." Yes, how low the wrestling tribe fell)))

                        I, unlike you, do not distort words. Khodakovsky said everything correctly, but you seem to have missed the point. He was talking about those who complain about the conditions, and not about those who resent the lack of training.
                        What are the criteria for choosing you as a troll leader there? The concept of logic is not familiar to you, or during the years of "service" in the zone have you rubbed too much against the guarded contingent? laughing
                    2. +9
                      16 November 2022 23: 35
                      Quote: Okolotochny
                      Or in the Soviet army, where did the authors of the article come from? And the snow was not laid at an angle of 45 degrees? And the puddles on the parade grounds were not swept away? And the drill did not do 2 hours a day? Combat techniques with weapons, combat techniques without weapons? Wasn't it?

                      I support! Two years of guard and patrol service - a day on guard or at a VAI post, a day on patrol (a closed city) or accompanied by collectors.

                      They fired once every six months, but the truth was from the heart and from all types of small arms - machine guns, machine guns, PMs, and even then because they controlled the shooting range for other branches of the district (another function).

                      But as infantrymen (VUS shooter), I suppose we were of dubious quality. Neither to dig in, nor to advance, nor to throw a grenade, much less coordinated actions in the unit did not work out.
                  2. -13
                    16 November 2022 18: 07
                    Khodakovsky is right in both cases.

                    Both on, changed shoes on the fly. Sometimes he kissed Skomrokhov and his co-authors in the ass for the article, but here: "Khodakovsky is right." Yes, how low the wrestling tribe fell)))
              2. +24
                16 November 2022 15: 04
                The same thing in the Maykop UTs, they have been sleeping and eating for 1,5 months. They fired a couple of times. Mobiki themselves complain that they are not cooked.
                1. +4
                  17 November 2022 09: 33
                  They shoot at us, Perevalnoe, Simferopol district, 126th brigade. I won’t say how good everything is, I’m not a military man, but if you don’t come to the neighborhood, it’s a roar.
              3. +9
                16 November 2022 16: 19
                A question for you about Khodakovsky - is he also right in assessing the assault on Pavlovka? wink (specific accusation of Akhmetov and Muradov) Mandatory answer, laughing

                Can you remind me where Khodakovsky used these surnames? As far as I know, they "surfaced" in an open letter from the Marines. And Khodakovsky, even before the attack on Pavlovka, said that he considered him unprepared, and if you take it, then you need to take Ugledar further.
                1. -11
                  16 November 2022 18: 12
                  You are trying to explain to sectarians in vain, they caught the hype and hype - this is their credo. As in Fedorov's article for the death of Stremousov - that the author is a hype, that his supporting commentators. By the way, Podolyaka said that such "opinions" on Stremousov's death are dancing on the bones. And they are on board. It's normal for them.
                  And Ingvar will not answer you for Makhmudov and Akhmedov, he tried to pass for "smart", but once again farted into a puddle 100500 times. This is his usual state.
                2. +4
                  16 November 2022 19: 53
                  Quote: Khimchanin
                  Can you remind me where Khodakovsky used these surnames? As far as I know, they "surfaced" in an open letter from the Marines.

                  Seek and you will find. Everything is in the public domain. Khodakovsky directly accuses those. who planned the operation to storm Pavlovka, and says that. that these people are making the commander of the Marine brigade guilty. And this "operation" was planned by Akhmetov and Muradov, about whom the marines wrote.
                  1. +1
                    17 November 2022 15: 45
                    Well, I do not. Khodakovsky did not use these surnames. They are from a letter from the 155th brigade of the Pacific Fleet! And he "blamed" in advance the general decision to take Pavlovka!
                    1. +2
                      17 November 2022 18: 43
                      Quote: Khimchanin
                      Well, I do not. Khodakovsky did not use these surnames

                      Do you know how to read? Re-read my answer. Khodakovsky blames those who planned the operation. And it was precisely those who were named by the Marines who planned. There was no "general solution". Marine brigade commanders were against it. To understand this, one does not need to have beyond ordinary mental abilities.
                      1. +1
                        18 November 2022 10: 58
                        Lying is bad. I also read his opinion about this, even before the start of the operation. I didn't see any accusations there. If you are so stubborn, bring his text, and not your pseudo-statement
                      2. 0
                        18 November 2022 12: 40
                        Quote: VLVL
                        Lying is bad.
                        do not rush to conclusions. Just because you don't know something doesn't mean your opponent is lying.
                        https://rus-bel.online/novosti/armiya/oshibki-planirovaniya-priveli-k-neopravdannym-poteryam-pri-mizernom-rezultate-hodakovskij-o-boyah-za-pavlovku/
                      3. +1
                        19 November 2022 07: 06
                        So I tell you about this. Where is the word "marines"? Where are the names allegedly accused by him? This is about the fact that you can read the information and make inputs or adjust information to ready-made inputs by adding words that are not there. There are accusations of planning errors and hope for Surovkin in establishing guilty.
                      4. 0
                        19 November 2022 12: 43
                        Quote: VLVL
                        Where are the names of those allegedly accused by him?

                        Why are you making me repeat myself? He directly blamed those who planned the operation. And Akhmetov and Muratov planned it.
                        And Surovikin will not help if the generals have a roof in the General Staff.
              4. -8
                16 November 2022 18: 12
                According to Muradoau and Akhmedov, I can characterize their mental and command qualities in real examples and with witnesses (boss and subordinates). But! In personal communication. Did you communicate with the people who took part in this "case"? If not, then there is nothing to "star" !!! In artillery, there are two concepts when performing a fire mission: fire on yourself and fire on yourself. Can be implemented under identical conditions. The task is completed, but in the first case - the officer is a hero, and in the second - just a competent artilleryman. Farther. Fire, medical, engineering training - this is just a single training. Then come the coordination of the squad, platoon, company, battalion. By article. The authors once again poured a bucket of slop. Where is the analysis of training by regions, places, units, formations, educational institutions? I know the training of fully combat-ready units. Question to the authors. What did they do and what positions did they hold 10 years ago, at the time of the collapse of the mob readiness? Something tells me that they took part in this, either directly or indirectly ... And now, when people in the ruins, without a base, perform the tasks of recruiting and preparing mob resources, they pour help on them. What state do we live in? If it is legal, then the court will also decide on the actions of the parties, and not on a "bunch of hacks".
                1. +12
                  16 November 2022 19: 57
                  Quote: Sergey79
                  If in the legal, then the court to make decisions

                  Are you freaking out? The most fair court has sunk into oblivion along with the Soviet Union.
                  And according to Pavlovka, I have more faith in military officers than Konashenkov and the governor of Primorye. And the same marines.
                  1. 0
                    17 November 2022 07: 24
                    If you let "incidents" with violation of laws take their own course, then this ultimately leads to stores discharged in the head in the database area. And I don’t listen to either military correspondents or Konoshenkov (all the more so), but I communicate with direct participants. And only then do I draw conclusions.
                    1. 0
                      17 November 2022 08: 14
                      Quote: Sergey79
                      If you let "incidents" with violation of laws take their course,

                      I agree. But for officials, responsibility should be much tougher. And here, as usual, the slaves are hard labor, and they threatened the masters with a finger.
                      This directly creates a revolutionary situation
                    2. +8
                      17 November 2022 09: 52
                      I agree and disagree, violation of discipline is wrong, but who checked this colonel, who protected him, whose son, brother, matchmaker is he? Just don't say it doesn't happen. My uncle is an officer and my grandfather is an officer - a coincidence? So uncle is a typical parquet officer, I can’t even imagine him in the war, well, what do you think, if I say this about relatives, then probably people like my uncle are not alone?
                      The article directly says that the questions were raised from those who are 30-40 years old, these are not young boys, and then the youth is just rather prone to rebellion, I know from my own experience.
                      These are people with at least worldly experience, and not juvenile gouging, which I myself was, like the mass of my peers. They understand exactly where they are going and what they are going to and have the right to ask questions.
                      The video itself did not open for me, but not everything was filmed there. The conflict was probably brewing and it was the officer’s fault that he brought him to the hot phase, you are aware that some not small mass of mobilized opposed their commander and I repeat, these are not boys.
                      Any analogy is false, but let's remember the reprisals against officers, more than a century ago, for example, in the navy. For example, those officers who served on battleships, which were not entirely clear why they were built, suffered the most, if they were in Helsingfors and when the crews began to crack down on these officers, they decided to "help" their colleagues with a younger rank, the workhorses of the war, decided to go to the destroyers and exactly the same sailors told them that you go about your business and we will deal with our officers ourselves. And what is there to understand if it is a single organism?
                      Maybe in this situation, in the article, the mobiles tried to use the charter, or maybe not, history is silent, as I understand it, but the fact that the officer did not feel the team is a fact. Mobs are not units in the computer. Is it not just their demand to teach them military affairs?
                      1. +1
                        17 November 2022 15: 57
                        I know very well (not by hearsay) officers who both father and son fought and are fighting. I know the nephew of a very high-ranking official (you know him), who is now on an equal footing with his comrades in the NVO zone. I gave an analogy in order to show that one and the same task can be performed competently, with knowledge of the matter, or heroically. I know history and enjoy learning. Naturally, in a combat situation, the unit is much more cohesive.
                2. +5
                  17 November 2022 09: 37
                  I commented above that our mobiles at least shoot, and the authors raised a specific problem, as they say that everything is going differently for another officer there.
                  Corporate ethics, stand up for everything in spite of everything?
                  1. +1
                    17 November 2022 16: 02
                    I don't stand up for anyone. I'm just talking about the fact that the competent authorities should understand and judge, and not everything in a row. It is very good that this conflict has manifested itself now.
                    1. +1
                      17 November 2022 19: 20
                      This is exactly drinks I'm telling you, but he wouldn't go alone, he was there. do not go to the fortuneteller, a collective riot. Riot, if anything, this is not an uprising.
              5. -1
                17 November 2022 12: 05
                It’s easy to prepare 300 thousand thugs-attack aircraft, it’s easier with a rear support.
                Ohrpna, etc.
                Moscow region may not take Kyiv, but sit at checkpoints in Sumy and Slavyansk. "thieves" - asked the sparrows maybe for their own?
            2. +15
              16 November 2022 12: 17
              - I beguiled the coast ...
              Those. Swallow silently, what was given ... then appeal?
              1. +20
                16 November 2022 14: 05
                Only then you may not have time to "submit a report on command."
            3. RGB
              +15
              16 November 2022 12: 27
              Well, rather, Khodakovsky is more right than wrong, I agree that this mobik went too far, it was impossible to dissolve his hands.
              1. +28
                16 November 2022 14: 07
                "Mobika", as you say, will be punished for loosening their hands, but what should be done with such a "commander"?
                1. +7
                  16 November 2022 16: 16
                  Yes, in sync. Stupid tag - and half a tag. Polkan .... they will miss - and skip the dunce. Moreover, the articles do not even need to be pulled up under both .... But when did it happen with us? If you start colonels ... to strain for non-fulfillment of direct duties, then what to do with the gene-lays? And with those who are no longer tenente generale? feel
                  1. +1
                    16 November 2022 21: 52
                    Call me, but I'm not lanfren lanfra hi "" "
                    1. +4
                      17 November 2022 10: 28
                      Alas, the world is not perfect wink
                      And about this incident or whatever.... Actually, it has always been like this, and in that very Belovodye. In some places - yes, they were engaged in the same combat training ... In others - stepping and digging from here until lunch, in others ..... And you could see which of the gentlemen of the officers grew up. Judging by how it all ended for the sickle and by what is happening on .... the line of contact ..... The first did not grow much ....
                      And since the army and the Armed Forces in general are a classical hierarchical structure, then, in accordance with the law, with .... gravity ... all levels will sooner or later be occupied with incompetence ..... True, destruction will most likely occur when a certain level is reached this one....
                  2. 0
                    18 November 2022 11: 51
                    Both of them on the fifteen and "volunteers" in the PMC Wagner. In one rank and in one platoon.
                    1. 0
                      18 November 2022 12: 03
                      Yes, it would be interesting. Especially if later, if possible, post their "biography" in this glorious office)). Not without bills, of course))
              2. +5
                17 November 2022 09: 53
                It is impossible, but here the colonel should also fly in the head, as he brought the personnel to such a level. but it won't fly.
                1. +5
                  17 November 2022 10: 31
                  This is what we are talking about. What if we strain - then synchronously. And the colonel - at, sorry, not an ensign. He should be responsible for the organization. Which, based on the conditional text, no. That is, this Mr. Officer sabotages the efforts of the entire country in wartime. For this time, in accordance with the new law, is still there, although ITS is not. And it can't be.
            4. +33
              16 November 2022 16: 39
              I don’t know what expert Khodakovsky is, but because of such a colonel as in the video, my friend was left without a leg in the Svatovsky direction. Although the colonel was told that it was not necessary to do what he wanted and argued that it was not worth going somewhere if the enemy’s drone was above you and the artillery did not work out. He said that everything would be and support, etc., but did not do anything. And before that, due to his stupidity, he put the personnel under friendly fire, the result is two 200 and plus a few 300, and there are no punishments for this colonel. He is a real stupid tree and you want to say that this should be obeyed? Would you like to follow the orders of that colonel under the heroic texts of Khodakovsky?
              1. -1
                18 November 2022 12: 06
                Dear, I don’t understand, there is no such thing in the army, I want to listen, I want to not listen. In the army, they follow orders, by the way, so that you know. Another issue is the competence of commanders, their training in peacetime and wartime, this is no longer in our competence and This moral freak from this video is certainly not within the competence. What such rallies and meetings lead to in the army, see and read about the revolution of 1917 and beyond. Only the commander, and only he, is responsible for everything, including the combat readiness of the unit certainly not an ordinary fighter.
                1. +1
                  18 November 2022 15: 45
                  Seriously? Out of our control? And to carry out the order of an idiot is in our competence, yes, dear? I know perfectly well that in 1917 there was a revolution and it certainly did not happen because of rallies in the army, betrayal and impenetrable fools met elsewhere. And the person in the above video may have gone too far, but not much, in principle, he expressed what many people have in their hearts to go there. You are in the position of a lawyer, probably because you are in a warm armor and you don’t need to go there.
            5. +8
              17 November 2022 00: 20
              And if you do not accustom recruits to discipline immediately, then simply leaving positions may not get off.
              One question: how about "immediately"?
              What's more, it's accurate
              not the boys who served urgently yesterday, but real boars 40+ who left their families, work, business


              How is Khodakovsky (who is right about discipline) going to "immediately accustom"?

              In my opinion, there is only one way - this is a normal male conversation (without "I am the commander and you are subordinates"). Once such an open honest conversation will take place and the mobilized will see in front of them not only the commander, but the main person, they will believe in him, then they themselves will begin to maintain order and discipline and correct their comrades, if suddenly they begin to forget "something".
              ---
              Once again, most of the mobilized are not boys, but "adults
              uncles" and you should not talk to them like boys.
              1. +4
                17 November 2022 10: 08
                So that's just the point, plus, but I believe that this character was not capable of this. I know these civil servants well. and when you ask uncomfortable questions, your cheeks immediately puff up. So the army is a reflection of society, why shouldn't it be there?
              2. -3
                18 November 2022 12: 13
                HA HA HA. What kind of male conversation are you talking about in the army, but I propose to challenge to a duel. You generally understand army kitchen, there is generally such a thing as filing complaints and statements. There is no need to invent anything, there is such an interesting document in the army called it if you are not aware of the disciplinary regulations. So everything is written there and there is no need for any male conversations, what nonsense. You actually served and at least commanded someone, seriously, I don’t want to offend anyone. This is a military unit that will soon go into battle.
                1. +2
                  18 November 2022 14: 33
                  You actually served and at least commanded someone, seriously
                  He served as a conscript and a lieutenant after a technical university, if anything.
                  So, of course, there are charters that far from regulate the entire army life. As we laughingly said, "the charter exists for that, so that it is bypassed."
                  Hazing, too, according to the charter?
                  When I first started serving, they immediately told me about a lieutenant conscript from a neighboring company (!), who, when he first arrived, after a conflict with the old-timers (did not listen to him), took off his tunic and offered to fight one on one - i.e. not by statute. The fight did not take place (the old-timers did not dare), but after that everyone respected the lieutenant. Once again, EVERYONE respected.

                  In our case, we are not talking about 18-20 year old guys, but about 40 year old guys who have served for a long time, who are already accustomed to commanding and shouting, many have children ... people are quite adults with them as with boys it is impossible.
                  ---
                  After meeting with the mobilized (and this is again 40 years old), the commander should begin communication with them with a direct, frank conversation, after which questions of discipline should not be raised.
            6. +3
              17 November 2022 09: 23
              The lack of discipline, in principle, is a detrimental phenomenon, not only for military life, but also for civilian life, take the same driving, you will see enough of the train, and there we are talking about the crippled and the dead.
              But I have a friend, he is either 45 or 46, who long before the SVO said: the army did not teach me anything and the other one, whom the 37th in the army shot for anything. I’ll make a reservation right away that it was the Ukrainian army, which, in principle, was not dealt with. Well, you remember how she performed in 2014.
              This is exactly what we're talking about. I am a conscript and I would like to be taught, I haven’t even fired from an air gun for a long time, and I haven’t held a shovel in my hands for 15 years, there is no garden to poke around and now they call me, I’ll be the first to intervene for discipline, but you still need to learn, don’t you think So?
            7. The comment was deleted.
          2. +13
            16 November 2022 10: 53
            One for the full program, the second - the minimum wage.

            What to do?

            Americans have for all occasions and training options protocols/instructions. It is necessary not to reinvent the wheel, but to make approximately the same system.
            1. -18
              16 November 2022 12: 01
              And what about the victories of the American army?!
              It is protocol to smash a city with a population with carpet bombing and then occupy it according to the instructions - yes, they succeed here, but not a single American protocol involves sending a lieutenant colonel to the genital organ and tumble into his body. For this, any member of the US Army will be immediately put on trial!
              Alabinsky Elk, a truth-teller, thinks correctly, but the execution of his thought expression is the most obscene and for violating the charter, coupled with assault, let him sit!
              Previously, there was already a video of a herd of drunken "saviors" of the state joyfully giggling and calling the general a pederast in unison. With such an approach, our army is threatened with collapse and wholesale desertion, from mobilized training points to the trenches of the front line!
              The fact that a soldier should be engaged in combat training is 1000% true, but the fact that a soldier should not be a Makhnovist with a machine gun is also true!
              1. +36
                16 November 2022 13: 08
                There is one BUT. This man is a civilian, he is not a military man, not a contract soldier, not a conscript. When conducting mobilization, it should be taken into account that people with different characters and different views on life and subordination will come. It is impossible to pull an adult person out of his usual life and, at the snap of a finger, turn him into a soldier and demand unconditional obedience from him. In order to demand something, you must first give something. This man, having joined the army, "gave away" his quiet peaceful life, the colonel did not give the required training to the fighter - the result of the conflict. The mobilized people are adults who have seen life and want to survive and return home, therefore they do not allow themselves to be treated "on the back of their skin". There will be a proper attitude towards them, and there will be a proper attitude towards the officers.
                And what I don’t like most of all is that many people use the phrase “A soldier has no right to swear and assault a commander,” maybe it would be more correct “neither a soldier nor a commander have the right to swear and assault each other”?
                1. +11
                  16 November 2022 13: 57
                  And what I don’t like most of all is that many people use the phrase “A soldier has no right to swear and assault a commander,” maybe it would be more correct “neither a soldier nor a commander have the right to swear and assault each other”?

                  Of course. They are mutually irrelevant. Just when the commander says go put on the armor and go ahead, and they send him nafig, this is a tag.
                  And when a private says my armor is junk, and the commander sends him nafig, it’s not even NSS, this is a remark to an officer.
                  HOWEVER, if you watch the video, there was nothing like that. This liberal civilian stupidly ran into the regiment, and the regiment simply bleated in response. The correct summary of the redneck is Pyatorochka, at least half the NSS, but I would take off a star.
                  1. +4
                    16 November 2022 16: 01
                    Quote: bk316
                    This liberally civilian stupidly ran into the regiment, and the regiment simply bleated in response

                    Stupid??? Are you sure you watched the video? On specific questions from the "civilian" is there anything to answer? Shooting at an imaginary enemy is what ???
                    1. +2
                      16 November 2022 16: 43
                      Are you sure you watched the video?

                      Watched.

                      Have you checked the vests? (already raised)
                      Checked. (so quiet)
                      Did you shoot at them? (even louder)
                      They shot. (quietly)
                      From how many meters (loud with pressure)
                      C 50 (so quiet)
                      AND WHAT HAPPENED?
                      No stuck. (quietly)
                      DOES IT HAVE BREAKED? (which is not stupid? Stupid, but LOUD)
                      No stuck. (quietly)

                      By now I would have it
                      -was standing at attention.
                      - did push-ups
                      - stomped on the lip

                      Choose what you want. Do you understand why? THE SOLDIER MAY NOT RAISE VOICE AT THE COLONEL. Under no circumstances. Otherwise, he is not a soldier, but a criminal, and the colonel is not a colonel, but a dead man (this is so that they would not be banned). Therefore, plant a freak, he is a criminal. Deprive an officer of his rank.
                      1. +17
                        16 November 2022 17: 22
                        Dear Vladimir, you didn’t understand anything in this case, alas. This should be looked at not as an isolated case, but as a marker of the mood in society. This means that we are approaching a dangerous border, beyond which all talk about who is right and who started first will lose its meaning. Like this. If Russian a person who generally avoids objecting to his superiors begins to speak with these authorities in a raised tone of obscenities, and he doesn’t mind giving free rein to his hands, then it’s time for someone at the top to think hard about the reasons and draw the right conclusions. That's what you need to talk about, and you are narrowly looking at an individual case, and this is wrong.
                      2. -4
                        16 November 2022 18: 33
                        This means that we are approaching a dangerous border, beyond which all talk about who is right and who started first will lose its meaning.

                        They say the phrase about the border of 20 years to me. Including right here.
                        I see it differently.

                        The fact is that people like this exist.
                        There are people who are generally dissatisfied with everything.
                        There are wrestlers.
                        There are people specifically who do not want to fight.
                        ALL THESE PEOPLE ARE PRESENT AND HERE ON IN.
                        But they used to be in the Great Patriotic War too.
                        They were simply quickly put in place - against the wall.
                        These also need to be put - to the shkonka.

                        It's my opinion. And pay attention, it coincides with the opinion of the absolute majority of commanders at the front. Read Sailor, Zhogu, Khodakovsky.
                        A bullet in the knee and everyone understood everything and everyone got what they wanted. The commander received discipline. Buzoter went to a civilian with a "combat" wound, to tell how he defended his homeland.

                        This is not what I said. This was said by the person who will send this bullet. According to the laws of war.
                        Well, I have already said everything about the polkan.
                      3. +7
                        16 November 2022 21: 46

                        Quote: bk316
                        The fact is that people like this exist.
                        There are people who are generally dissatisfied with everything.
                        There are wrestlers.
                        There are people specifically who do not want to fight.
                        ALL THESE PEOPLE ARE PRESENT AND HERE ON IN.
                        But they used to be in the Great Patriotic War too.
                        They were simply quickly put in place - against the wall.
                        These also need to be put - to the shkonka ...

                        What, all at once? belay No, well, then of course we will win, the stump is clear. To hell with the highmars, axes, drones and space reconnaissance with the Internet. Fuck whether there is economics with science. All this shit, the main thing in modern war is to shoot more dissatisfied with the course of events. Of course, of course, because you still need to get to the enemies. So we will win.
                        Good luck to you in your difficult undertaking, you will need it badly, I have no doubt.
                      4. -3
                        17 November 2022 10: 00
                        What, all at once?

                        In order.
                      5. +7
                        16 November 2022 20: 02
                        Quote: bk316
                        Therefore, plant a freak, he is a criminal. Deprive an officer of his rank.

                        He is not, but an adult man with emotions. And he, purely humanly, has the right to them, because such "training" in battle will cost the lives of many mobs. And I recommend finding the full video, from different angles. To complete the picture. There is a Tele. With regard to planting - both should be planted, one for assault, the second for sabotage.
                        Quote: bk316
                        There are people specifically who do not want to fight.

                        This mobile was in the hospital with pneumonia, and to tell that his unit was being sent, he escaped from the hospital so that they would not leave without him. That alone is worthy of respect.
                      6. -2
                        17 November 2022 09: 59

                        This mobile was in the hospital with pneumonia, and to tell that his unit was being sent, he escaped from the hospital so that they would not leave without him.

                        Listen, I wanted to ask for a long time, did you serve in the army?
                      7. +4
                        17 November 2022 18: 47
                        Quote: bk316
                        Listen, I wanted to ask for a long time, did you serve in the army?

                        They didn't seem to drink together. wink Yes, he served.
                        90-92. What is the question?
                      8. 0
                        18 November 2022 11: 25
                        90-92. What is the question?

                        To understand where such thoughts come from in my head.
                        Looks like I got it.
                        You did not serve in the Soviet army. And you just have no idea what an army is at all.
                        Well, just as the state of the Russian Federation in the 90s, compared to the USSR, was NOT a state at all, and the army in which you served was not an army compared to the one in which I served.
                        Let's try to explain everything in the first person.
                        We didn't have much. For example, the quality of food in the school (Mulino) was disgusting, definitely not according to the charter. The bathhouse laundry complex was idle, and we washed everything ourselves. When leaving, the field lacked half of the dry ration and all the necessary things, such as a bowler hat and a flask - they simply weren’t thrown out. By the way, AK was terribly ancient.
                        We constantly had conflicts on national grounds. With Tajiks and Chechens. Not to stabbing, but to scuffle.
                        We were regularly sent to any work not related to military training.
                        There was a war going on in Afghanistan and half-books went there. And there was a lot that was missing.

                        NO ONE WOULD NEVER EVEN HAVE TO HAVE SOMETHING TO BREAK TO THE COMMANDER WITHOUT HIS ORDER. Yes, we generally saw the division commander only when we stood at attention. And an attempt to raise his voice to the sergeant (the Chechens tried a couple of times) ended in an informal conversation followed by a march or passing through a strip in a gas mask.

                        And that army could fight, but THIS must first be brought to life ....
                      9. 0
                        18 November 2022 12: 34
                        Quote: bk316
                        You did not serve in the Soviet army.

                        That is where I served. And the relationship with the commanders was very different in places. As well as providing with a laundress. I am familiar with everything you described, as I am familiar with the other side of the coin.
                      10. 0
                        18 November 2022 14: 30
                        That is where I served.

                        No, they didn’t serve, because in 90 the army and the USSR died de facto, and by 92 they also died de jure.

                        commanders were very different in places.

                        Let the hunt alone write in VO that in 85 an ordinary could yell at the colonel like this and they stood around and looked at it. I want to look into his eyes.

                        I really hope that in six months this will be impossible in the Russian army. The war will fix it.
                      11. 0
                        18 November 2022 19: 11
                        Quote: bk316
                        Let the hunt alone write in VO that in 85 an ordinary could yell at a colonel like this

                        In 86, in the VSO unit, officers did not enter the company at night, they were afraid. And one captain ran for vodka for demobilization. As I said, things were very different in places.
                        PS Can you tell me where the 1.5 million sets of the Warrior, which were so cheerfully reported, went?
                      12. +6
                        16 November 2022 20: 05
                        Quote: bk316
                        THE SOLDIER MAY NOT RAISE VOICE AT THE COLONEL. Under no circumstances.
                        That is, only to bring down the underground tightly? No options?
                      13. +1
                        17 November 2022 09: 10
                        Quote: bk0010
                        That is, only to bring down the underground tightly? No options?

                        Definitely. And then he, or someone like him, will suddenly be sent to reconnaissance in battle, at the front, and there they can kill the mastersport ...
                        Well, nothing, this one has already been robbed under two articles, as they say, the rest will get there - there are other rules.
                      14. -2
                        17 November 2022 15: 29
                        about there is only to bring down the underground tightly? No options?

                        It seems that no one served here and in general everyone is very far from the army.
                        Options.
                        1. Write a report
                        2. Go to the special officer and write a denunciation to him.
                        3. Talk to your direct commander.
                        It was always and the following items appeared now
                        4. Call the helpline of the Ministry of Defense, FSB, AP
                        5. Leaked information to the military correspondent.
                  2. +3
                    17 November 2022 13: 28
                    Polkan just bleated in response
                    The colonel lost the main thing - INITIATIVE.
                    And as soon as you lose the initiative, you immediately lose CONTROL, and you are forced to only react, which often leads to a loss.
                    So the colonel lost.
                    ---
                    Colonels (or anyone else) in such situations need to seize the initiative and immediately switch to a direct open conversation on their own, and not with a single subject, but with everyone at once.

                    And if through this conversation the mobilized (and we are talking about them and not about contract soldiers and volunteers) see the essence of their commander (that he really worries about them and for the cause), believe him and internally accept him as their commander, then the question of discipline is more will not get up.

                    The commander must stand up for his subordinates with a mountain: if armored personnel carriers, weapons, first-aid kits, ammunition, etc., etc. are needed, then the commander must ensure that his soldiers receive this, and not excuse themselves.

                    If the commander does not cope, then it must be changed. If some of the mobilized are still skeptical about the commander, then it probably makes sense to second this part of the mobilized to other units.
                    ---
                    During the Second World War, it was not just that the commanders were the first to go on the attack, and then the fighters shielded them with their chests.
                    ---
                    And yes, the video did not leave the best impressions - and you can’t run into it like that, and conditions for retraining of the mobilized must be provided.
                    1. 0
                      17 November 2022 16: 35
                      The colonel lost the main thing - INITIATIVE.

                      Colonels (or anyone else) in such situations need to seize the initiative

                      The commander must stand up for his subordinates with a mountain:

                      If the commander does not cope, then it must be changed.

                      you can't run and

                      So that's exactly what I'm writing. But many people don’t get it, either they didn’t serve and don’t understand the essence of the service, or they can’t because they are wrestlers.

                      When I served, it was simply impossible. Colonel, he's somewhere near God. Although, for example, there were riots on national soil, this was all decided at the MAXIMUM level before the battalion commander. And the battalion commander is a captain. Where is the captain and where is the colonel.
                      1. +1
                        18 November 2022 00: 03
                        it was just impossible
                        Yes, it’s generally unacceptable to talk, even with a colonel, even just with a civilian.
                        So I think, and if an instructor in army hand-to-hand combat was standing in front of him, then he would also talk to him the same way.

                        In the 19th century, trifling insults were challenged to a duel. I think this is how it should be now.
                      2. +2
                        18 November 2022 10: 29
                        In the 19th century, trifling insults were challenged to a duel. I think this is how it should be now.

                        Nothing war will put everything in its place.
                        Look, the officers from the DPR police were asked to comment, they clearly said a bullet in the knee and the dude happily went home.
                        And the Wagnerian was generally silent, only somehow grinned badly.
                      3. -2
                        18 November 2022 19: 14
                        Quote: flicker
                        In the 19th century, for trifling insults, they were challenged to a duel

                        And they shot when an officer was convicted of theft, or of behavior discrediting the honor of the uniform. This is in the direction of the Zolotov pebble. wink
                      4. +2
                        19 November 2022 09: 35
                        Quote: Ingvar 72

                        And they shot when an officer was convicted of theft, or of behavior discrediting the honor of the uniform.

                        Good thing you're not an officer.
                        And then you shoot, do not shoot
                2. +7
                  16 November 2022 14: 26
                  Well, let's say that he is no longer a civilian, but a soldier ...
                  1. +4
                    17 November 2022 10: 16
                    You are a civilian, what can you tell your employer? I would look at you, how long would you last in your workplace.
                    1. -4
                      17 November 2022 16: 37
                      You are a civilian, what can you tell your employer?

                      If you cannot, then your value as an employee is negligible. If the employer's business depends on you, he will listen - where will he go.
                      1. +3
                        17 November 2022 19: 40
                        I don’t know why the cons came to you, but I came across such a position. If you are an employee of a small enterprise, then you want to show yourself smarter than the owner? Maybe replace it later? If medium or large, then the foreman will look askance at you, in figs does he need competitors? He will qualitatively drown such and such until he retires. Competition does not only arise in the market.
                        You, Volodya, seem to be a little aloof, let me explain. There are contradictions between the employee and the employer, in the USSR there was no such thing because there was a salary, well, there are all sorts of bonuses. So, under capitalism, when an employee starts earning a hell of a lot, the employer has a question: is he getting a hell of a lot? There is the logic of the fact that I, as an entrepreneur, created the conditions. well, if it’s lucky there, then let’s cut it in half, although in fact you have something to do with it, it’s your employee who muddied the scheme. Such an employee can take away his client base and take away his contingent by creating his own business So tell a businessman that such advanced ones are really needed?
                      2. -1
                        18 November 2022 11: 01
                        You, Volodya, look a little aside, let's explain

                        Well, why aside, let me explain.

                        There are contradictions between the employee and the employer, this was not the case in the USSR

                        In the USSR, the state was the monopoly employer. It is clear that the labor conflict with the state is nonsense. BUT. In reality, the state represented the management of the enterprise. And right here there were at least conflicts ... eat. I managed to work in the USSR, so to speak, in a toxic environment (in teaching and research). So conflicts on the basis of a lot of work earned a common thing because teachers never sat on salaries.

                        So tell a businessman such advanced people are strongly needed?

                        Now about advanced specialists. You do not understand the essence of the specialist. A sales manager who can take customers away, what kind of special is he. I meant something else. We take an office that makes software,
                        such specialists are a team leader, an architect, maybe a project manager. Or the office is developing an engine for an aircraft. Such a specialist is the general designer. For purely production director of production.
                        The question of whether the employee receives a dofiga has long been resolved.
                        The employee should receive as much as he is worth on the market + the cost of finding a new employee if this one leaves + the damage from the departure of the employee.
                        If an employee does not receive enough from his point of view, then one of two things
                        1. As a specialist, he really costs little
                        2. His employer is a layman in business or a petty tyrant.
                        In the second case, the employee should simply say hello and leave for a big salary. If he cannot leave for a big salary, then he is again of little value as a specialist.
                        This is purely about the value of an employee and about the behavior of the employer in a situation of conflict, and when you just need to convey your position to the employer, this is often the responsibility of the employee.
                        So the statement
                        If you cannot, then your value as an employee is negligible.

                        Proven
                      3. +1
                        18 November 2022 11: 48
                        In the USSR, the state was the monopoly employer.

                        This is not entirely true, but let's say, and who is the state?
                        And here there were conflicts at least ... eat. I managed to work in the USSR, so to speak, in a toxic environment (in teaching and research).

                        You do not confuse it with the working environment. Even in Soviet times, the scientific community was greatly degraded; already there, according to Ilyin, there was a sense of rank. I am somewhat familiar with her, although in the post-Soviet period, due to her age, I am also familiar with the worker. In our small enterprise, the opinion of only one worker was listened to, he really was a very important link, probably the most important link in the chain, and what about the rest, cabbage soup slurped with bast shoes?
                        I don't give a damn about the interests of my employer, I get a salary from him and for this I have to perform some front of work.
                        And to explain to the owner that it can be easier to do this, he has a thought, but do I want to screw him up. Which by the way happens sometimes. He won’t write me a bonus, so following his instructions for any garbage, you can blame him yourself, they say, you yourself said so, so I did it. And why the hell should I argue with him over the outcome of the case?
                        So conflicts on the basis of a lot of work earned a common thing because teachers never sat on salaries.

                        It is understandable that there was an opportunity to earn money one way or another, but what you say is no longer socialist relations.
                        Now about advanced specialists. You do not understand the essence of the specialist. A sales manager who can take customers away, what kind of special is he. I meant something else.

                        Wait a second, I got clients, created their network and for my work I unfasten my uncle, but why? Well, for example, I trade in some significant product, my employer does not produce it himself, but buys it, but I can find out where he buys and do it instead of him. Yes, such stories are a dime a dozen. Services are much easier.
                        The question of whether the employee receives a dofiga has long been resolved.
                        The employee should receive as much as he is worth on the market + the cost of finding a new employee if this one leaves + the damage from the departure of the employee.

                        It's in your mental constructs. In practice, it happens a little differently. Here you fulfill a certain amount, then they said that you can do more and you were paid extra, but this extra payment is according to the tariff, and then you can do more becomes the norm. In the USSR, they paid twice for an overplan, not always and not everywhere, but the original idea was this.
                        And so everywhere, remember such boys ran, advertising agents? Everything seems to be fair, you get 10% and you can even manipulate them, hand over half of your earnings in order to get at least something, or leave without salty slurping. By and large, these runners did not earn anything, but since there were many of them, there was some kind of effect for the company. And then once, there was a craftsman. Well, they quickly explained to him that you can’t pay such indecent money, and half is enough for you.
                        In the second case, the employee should simply say hello and leave for a big salary. If he cannot leave for a big salary, then he is again of little value as a specialist.

                        This is scholasticism and very stupid, it so happened that I hire, they hire me and in my business the difference in piecework wages is very different and it's not about qualifications, but about the degree of greed and jumps from region to region, and these are not federal regions, that's all within the Crimea.
                        And the fact that a good worker can get a job with a better salary. Are they really waiting for him? You talk about hiring so easily that it's like you went and got a job and there is no unemployment, which is created in order to pay lower.
                        So your thoughts are very loosely connected with reality, it is akin to the idea that it is beneficial for a capitalist to pay a large salary so that his worker buys his goods. Should I explain that this is nonsense?
                      4. -1
                        18 November 2022 12: 10
                        And the fact that a good worker can get a job with a better salary. Are they really waiting for him?

                        Good specialist. Hear, not an employee but a Specialist.
                        If you just know how to pick tomatoes 12 hours a day without being distracted. Then I don't know..... And if you can organize a team of programmers in such a way that it will write the code in a month, which years before could not write, then yes. You don't have to look for anything. YOU WILL BE bombarded with offers to move to another office. Your head will be hunted, you will literally be walked around (in taverns, warm seas, hunting, fishing, depending on your preferences and the headhunter's budget).

                        And YES, high-class personnel do not have any unemployment - there is a VERY SERIOUS shortage of programmers, engineers, designers, chemists, doctors .... That is, it is precisely those who determine the future.

                        And yet, you forgive who you work? I have to spend every single day of my time on the problems associated with the recruitment of specialists. This despite the fact that I have an extremely stable team and very good salaries. And anyway, someone went to fight, someone stopped keeping up with the development of technology, but we need to work today.
                      5. +1
                        18 November 2022 15: 26
                        Good specialist. Hear, not an employee but a Specialist.

                        It's you, Volodya, you don't hear. And the rest of the workers, not such good specialists - who is this for you, ? Moreover, you immediately hint at managers, and I'm talking about workers.
                        And if you know how to organize a team of programmers in such a way that it will write the code in a month

                        If he succeeds, does he really need a master? He knows the programmers personally, the client too, well, at least indirectly. Why don't you tell him the appendage from above?
                        But I was talking about ordinary workers, for example, who could not demand soap from the employer, such a simple problem out of the blue. I once got into a conversation with a grandmother, a worker in the toilet. The conversation began with the fact that this piece of paper is not enough for me, let me rewind as much as I need. The toilet cost 2 hryvnias, the same price as a roll of the same paper. And she was almost crying, the owner tells me to do so, what can I say? I'm talking about such objections, and you tell me liberal tales in response.
                        This is such a noticeable example, a little inconvenient, but not the only one in my practice. There are many such owners, and you are talking about the team that will write the code.
                        And YES, high-class personnel do not have any unemployment

                        You do not want to understand that not everyone can become highly qualified specialists, moreover, not everyone needs them precisely because they need to be paid more. Have you thought about it? And in vain, I'll give you a specific example. One company came to us in the Crimea, it is well-known in Russia, it is a tour operator that dumped this year. They have everything from flights, hotel accommodation, transfers, to excursions, and I want to say about the latter. Their drivers are excellent, I can’t say anything, you asked where I work - in tourism. There is a lot of positive there, but they recruited just anyone for the role of guides and did not care about the quality of the excursion service. And now they tell me that some girl is leading a tour of the southern coast of Crimea and says that Bear Mountain, in fact it is called Ayu-Dag, and this is just a literal translation and they argue about it, so that's what this is the highest mountain in Crimea. If you turn your eyes in the opposite direction from the mountain, you will see for yourself that this is not at all the case.
                        It’s just that the drivers agree to their offer for money, there are better conditions than a number of bus owners, but the guides don’t, because they don’t want to pay a normal salary, so if guides with documents get to them, then these are young people gaining experience. And in the mass these are students from the continent who don’t know a damn thing. This is despite the fact that in the Crimea itself, only St. Petersburg and Moscow can argue with the school of excursions, the rest just nervously smoke on the sidelines, including Sochi, geographically close to us.
                        But the problem is not only in these specialists, I would give such a specialist in the head who came up with the organization of the process. Well, for example, moving from Alushta, without traffic jams, to Bakhchisaray takes 1,5 hours, they have 4, what do they do this time? Collect clients in different holes. We have, you know, serpentine and we went through it. there were all sorts of things and people drove on side chairs, and refused to go on a tour just when they were in a hurry to put a car in every slot, when they just went out with the words: thank you - we rolled over. But there were not enough brains to listen to our experience, who we are and who Moscow is.
                        I have to spend every single day of my time on the problems associated with the recruitment of specialists.

                        Did you try to grow it? This, of course, is an expense, and by growing it, competitors will be able to lure, or they may not lure, depending on how you behave.
                        And this is your main problem, you immediately need cool specialists. of course it will be a problem to find them if they are not allowed to grow.
                        In terms of good salaries, they are not bad for whom? In our country, the average worker is paid approximately 30 thousand, it is clear that he is hacking there, where there are no cameras, and he has something one way or another, well, for example, they get so much on the CAU machine in Festo. For the same work but in St. Petersburg they pay 80, is this how the market works?
                        I.e. the local leadership believes that this is normal, so what is normal salaries in your understanding, and what is normal in the eyes of a worker are two big differences, as they say in Odessa.
                      6. 0
                        21 November 2022 16: 14
                        Moreover, you immediately hint at managers, and I'm talking about workers.

                        I'm not talking about managers. I'm talking about engineers, IT, scientists and managers.
                        You do not want to understand that not everyone can become highly qualified specialists, moreover, not everyone needs them precisely because they need to be paid more.


                        Well, firstly, I did not say that EVERYONE should become high-class specialists.
                        Remember how the discussion started.
                        If you cannot, then your value as an employee is negligible.

                        That is, I wrote this to a specific person in response to his.
                        you are a civilian, what can you tell your employer? I would look at you, how long would you last in your workplace.

                        And you switched to the socio-economic aspect.

                        Secondly, if you want, we will discuss it, but this is a pure flood.
                        Briefly. I am of the opinion that what you describe, like the proletariat itself, is a temporary phenomenon and should disappear in the form that exists.

                        Thirdly
                        Did you try to grow it? This, of course, is an expense, and by growing it, competitors will be able to lure, or they may not lure, depending on how you behave.

                        Already with numbers I somehow substantiated: in my situation it is not profitable either economically or technically.

                        And fourthly.
                        If he succeeds, does he really need a master? He knows the programmers personally, the client too, well, at least indirectly. Why don't you tell him the appendage from above?

                        And this is the essence of capitalism, as it SHOULD BE, and is not.
                        Yes, because he knows how to organize projects, and not sell them, he does not have investment capital, in the end it is simply not interesting to him. And then an investor comes and organizes it all. This is how it should work in IT and high-tech in general, this is how it works.
                3. +3
                  16 November 2022 16: 59
                  Quote: Drozd
                  maybe it would be more correct "neither the soldier nor the commander have the right to swear and engage in assault on each other"?

                  You don't need to invent anything. Everything is already written in the laws. The Criminal Code does not make any difference who punched someone in the face, subordinate to the boss, or vice versa. The punishment is the same.
                  1. +2
                    16 November 2022 18: 36
                    The punishment is the same.

                    Well, yes, 4 years, but the private is also 15 for non-compliance with the order.
                4. +7
                  16 November 2022 21: 28
                  I looked at the number of minuses and was puzzled about how our men got snotty!
                  There is one consolation, ten pluses, and I’m sure they are from those who really served the tsar and the fatherland, who know firsthand about the personnel, and the sleepers from shtafirok and combat bread cutters with brave capitalists are not worth attention
                  Here you are telling me about the characteristics of the characters, about the temperament and psychological portrait of a person who was pulled out of his calm civilian life to go to war ..... It so happened that in my life I had to learn after school in an educational institution of a paramilitary type with an appropriate organization studies: company, groups, foremen, uniform, etc.
                  Then I swelled military service for 2 years 1 month and 15 days ....
                  Later he entered and graduated from the Higher Command School, and after some time of service, he also received an academic education.
                  During all this time, our military comrades were constantly with me and next to me: soldiers, sergeants, ensigns and officers of various ranks and positions. There were different situations and different places in my service, the time was appropriate: the country fought from Afghanistan to the KTO in the North Caucasus.
                  I believe that I have the right to my own assessment of what happened, and therefore it is like this - a bull moose who has his own opinion and expresses it the way he expressed it, should receive the punishment due to him for his words and actions - in accordance with the Law!
                  An assessment of the actions of an officer should be given by his superiors, and if he deserves punishment, he must bear it in accordance with the Law!
                  In my opinion, this is fair. Do you agree?
                  Otherwise, it is anarchy and Makhnovshchina.
                  With your approach, Egor, it's time for us to build trenches along the Moscow Ring Road and the Garden Ring.
                  Just in case, the principle of unity of command in the armies of ALL countries in the world has not been canceled and a similar moose in them, without options !!!, would have left long ago to prepare for a trial and serving the inevitable punishment.
                  Everything else on this topic is saliva, snot and blotters for hot pink tears!
                  1. +4
                    16 November 2022 22: 42
                    Quote: Sebastian Aristarkhovich Pereira
                    I looked at the number of minuses and was puzzled about how our men got snotty!

                    Do not be puzzled by Sebastian Aristarkhovich, because in this case these minuses are equivalent to pluses. So you managed to call "fire on yourself" from professional and full-time whiners, who, as the SVO is held, become more and more active here and have a specific task - "the formation of negative public opinion in a negative way towards the state, power and army. Some regulars, giving out the same "nurses and sufferings" on the mountain are already boring and tritely predictable, but here, over the past couple of three weeks, "dormant reserves" have been crawling out, which have not been seen for years, but scribble in unison with the "predictable". shipped so many minuses, for, in general, the right thoughts and assessments, so you managed to stir up this hornet's nest. hi
                    1. +5
                      17 November 2022 10: 33
                      I often agree with you, but not in this case. what the hell is seeing some conspiracies? Do we have few problems revealed during the SVO? If you close your eyes, will they dissolve by themselves?
                      1. 0
                        17 November 2022 10: 55
                        Quote: Alexander Salenko
                        I often agree with you, but not in this case. what the hell is seeing some conspiracies? Do we have few problems revealed during the SVO? If you close your eyes, will they dissolve by themselves?

                        You wrote correctly. But I want to note, a little lower, in a comment for Pereiro, you yourself have already written an answer to this comment of yours
                        Quote: Alexander Salenko
                        For example, I would be perfectly able to swear. I wouldn’t have gone to the mat, and even more so I wouldn’t have used my hands.

                        He may not respect the commander as a person, but he must respect epaulettes and subordination. The essence of the incident is a breach of discipline. He could initiate the submission of a collective letter (report) in which he could state the opinion of the entire team on all the jambs and file a double for the unit commander with the military prosecutor's office and would be covered in chocolate, and so ... bunks. hi
                      2. +5
                        17 November 2022 12: 24
                        You can’t even argue here, just how much has been revealed, and I know the work of our military registration and enlistment offices, for example, and they sit their pants there, and you pay taxes so that they are also paid salaries.
                        To make my position clear, I will give an example from history. There was such a Kazarsky, who commanded the brig "Mercury", a unique battle with two Turkish battleships, each of which could sink the brig to the bottom with one successful salvo. The brig barely survived but emerged from the battle with a victory, two battleships could not drown the vessel - this, to put it mildly, was a fiasco. "Mercury" could not have done these battleships, otherwise another opinion is often found that he drove the Turks almost to the Bosporus.
                        A combat officer is appointed a member of the emperor's retinue and at the same time sent to see how the fleet is abused. It ended with the fact that in Nikolaev, Kazarsky did not drink coffee very well, which is why he died.
                      3. +1
                        17 November 2022 15: 59
                        Quote: Alexander Salenko
                        You can’t even argue here, just how much has been revealed, and I know the work of our military registration and enlistment offices, for example, and they sit their pants there, and you pay taxes so that they are also paid salaries.
                        You see, Alexander, the fact is that in the system of military registration and enlistment offices, for some time now there have been no officer positions at all, and all the work related to registration and mobilization is performed either by "pre" or "already" pensioners from among civilian grandmothers, ideally former military grandparents but that's not even the point. Whoever they are, but they COMPLETE the task of mobilization (with or without errors). The military registration and enlistment office works with the material (resource) embedded in the database (file cabinet). Well, grandmother Manya or Glafira Petrovna cannot know that among the persons subject to mobilization according to all the criteria (age, experience of a participant in a military school, VUS) there are degenerates who are not able to distinguish an officer from a gopnik, either because of their mental abilities, or because complete degradation. Crap!!! Just imagine a picture of how this "cephalopod" communicates with the family and what will it teach the son? It's just a jerk. I don't quite understand what motivates you to transgress through your own beliefs
                        For example, I would be perfectly able to swear. I wouldn’t have gone to the mat, and even more so I wouldn’t have used my hands.
                        insist that this "scarecrow" is still not a scarecrow. You are contradicting yourself. What are your examples? Well, you understand that if a donkey is repainted into a zebra or a leopard, he will not become them and will still remain a donkey. Once again, it may be tedious, but I have to remind you that in the army everything is regulated by the charter (combat, disciplinary, drill). There is no space here for ("purely concrete, or, well, purely humanly"), because this leads to the decomposition of discipline and, as a result, the army. In the revolutionary year, by the way, quite a few officers (and not the worst ones) were shot because of such "sailors". provocateurs.
                      4. +2
                        17 November 2022 19: 28
                        I understand your arguments, but we had 4 military registration and enlistment offices in Simferopol, counting the district one, we made one. My 15 year old son doesn't know what it is. no money? I can show you where to find them for this whole thing.
                        Once again, it may be tedious, but I have to remind you

                        I have no problems understanding this, and just like you, I root for our army. But I know for sure that in any conflict, two sides are to blame. Sincerely drinks
                      5. 0
                        17 November 2022 19: 40
                        A million percent FOR!!!!!! said!
                      6. +3
                        17 November 2022 12: 28
                        He could initiate the submission of a collective letter (report) in which he could state the opinion of the entire team on all the jambs and file for the unit commander, a double to the military prosecutor's office and would be covered in chocolate

                        I mean, are you really sure?
                      7. +2
                        17 November 2022 16: 13
                        Quote: frog
                        He could initiate the submission of a collective letter (report) in which he could state the opinion of the entire team on all the jambs and file for the unit commander, a double to the military prosecutor's office and would be covered in chocolate

                        I mean, are you really sure?

                        If you have experience related to the fact that you can reasonably prove the opposite, then show it.
                        As practice shows, any "violent shit" in the case of a target definition in the number of "senior and responsible" usually merges at the stage of defining the task. In this case, this "cephalopod" felt courage and clearly provoked the officer into a forceful response under video recording. This goblin should sit down and for a long time. Now his employer should not be the Ministry of Defense, but the Penitentiary System and the owner of the Wagner group, comrade. Prigogine. Only in the case of Wagner, this BUCK, for attempting to decompose the army team, with such a "waltz" will snatch a quick "dismissal" through a personal sledgehammer, and therefore prefer to fell wood on a plot or sew panties with mittens, as his compatriot did in his time Solzhenitsin, who, saving his own skin, wrote letters compromising his own in the hope that censorship would bring him to trial and he would leave with the advanced stages to Siberia or Kolyma far from the front. Managed.
                      8. +1
                        17 November 2022 17: 12
                        You see, what's the matter, Peter (s) ....
                        I never suggested that this dunce be defined as a hero. Bo served in the Armed Forces. Yes, and in many places, if not in all)) subordination and other buzzwords have not been canceled. I'm talking about something else....
                        In one, let's say, venerable university, there were (and are)) the place to be some ... violations .... About which the same prosecutor's office and other structures were informed quite officially. Can you guess the result?) Or, say, in one city (more precisely, in the immediate vicinity) there was a certain concentration of people .... associated with the distribution of those same substances. About which the relevant authorities were repeatedly informed. Even in an utterly official way, up to addressing the Horse on the air. Obviously, due to someone's (at least local)) oversight. Can you guess the result?
                        That is, it's not about the fact that the hero is this clown or not. There can be no questions here. The question is different. What kind of "polkan" is this, sorry, with which you can do this? Why would this whole play play out at all? If this is a vile conspiracy of certain individuals for the purpose of hype and denigration of our great armed forces - of course, in every possible way to affirm. There are no questions here. But there are some doubts that this canoe arose out of the blue ... You can even dig and even, perhaps, dig up something. But why? Quite a lot of things take place in the same Alabino and in many other places. Including with these ... mobilized. Moreover, in other places the process is proceeding approximately as described in the charter beloved (hotly) by all of us. And we are talking about the fact that if the charter is observed, then none of this can be. In a normal process, a fighter has two wishes, a maximum of three. Eat, sleep and ..... in general, smoke)). All. there is no time for them to deal with this Mui Ne. At the same time, all this time they should be busy not digging ditches or practicing drill techniques on the spot and on the move. In the same Tsakhal, as far as I know, this is not very good. And nothing, they are chasing the Chemerges, sorry, it’s quite possible for a year. The memorable Rhodesian light infantry also had something so-so with the drill .....
                        Yes, and much more can be said about the charter and other things. It’s just that the guardians of the charter shout loudly for such stunners and somehow it’s hard to hear them when, instead of b / n jolners, Allah knows what they are doing, what is in the union, what is now. And all the "most competent authorities" were busy with something, when in a little earlier times both the fleet and not the fleet were squandered .... Etc. etc. And as soon as in the same Chechnya, once, they suddenly remembered that it was written in the charter for organizing the movement of columns, but immediately (according to rumors)) the number of encroachments of all sorts was reduced. Well, and so on...
                        Actually, these scumbags need to be punished. In the same way as it is necessary to punish all those involved in this mess. Because it's a mess. If everything is there .... sorry, "according to the charter" - there is no time for them to deal with booze.
                      9. +1
                        17 November 2022 18: 59
                        Quote: frog
                        Actually, these scumbags need to be punished. In the same way as it is necessary to punish all those involved in this mess. Because it's a mess. If everything is there .... sorry, "according to the charter" - there is no time for them to deal with booze.

                        But who is against it? You wrote such a long comment in neat handwriting, but in the end, you came to exactly what is required. and as mentioned above
                        Quote: frog
                        Actually, these scumbags need to be punished
                        As for the rest, the organization of b / n, life, leisure, etc. then yes, it’s also necessary to screw up the commanding staff beyond any doubt that, in fact, after this scandal it will happen without fail, and which you also confirm.
                        Quote: frog
                        In the same way as it is necessary to punish all those involved in this mess. Because it's a mess.

                        So we have a complete consensus on these two positions. The only thing in which there are contradictions is that in the behavior of the "bull mob" I see lawlessness and danger in the sense that this cannot be left unpunished, and you are trying to become a lawyer for this bull. Well, you know, let each of us have our own opinion. Just answer honestly to yourself, if you were a platoon leader on the front line, would this pretzel suit you?
                      10. +2
                        17 November 2022 20: 50
                        that in fact, after this scandal will happen without fail, and that you also confirm.

                        And here - sorry. For I express my doubt that something will change, except for "straining" the troublemakers. Too many real life examples. What then, what now.
                        Just answer honestly to yourself, if you were a platoon leader on the front line, would this pretzel suit you?

                        If I were a "vanka" on the front line, I would be much less satisfied with such a "polkan". Because the platoon commander can, and knows how, and is obliged to "break off the horns" of any "pretzel". If he is an officer, of course. But with such superiors, he can do nothing. Unfortunately.
                      11. +1
                        17 November 2022 22: 16
                        Well, why are you like that, let a man dream laughing
                  2. +3
                    17 November 2022 10: 32
                    I didn’t downvote you and you have the right to your opinion, who can argue. I would, for example, be perfectly able to swear. I wouldn’t have gone to the mat, and even more so I wouldn’t have used my hands. But the fact that he would take an interest in the quality of training in his place is for sure. It may be worth reminding you that in Grozny, at one time, a fighter answered on the radio and said that he could not call the commander, he was shooting from the KPVT. Why is the commander doing this? Because no one else can.
                    This officer really will remain in the rear, he doesn’t care, and I see such indifference in many places in ordinary life and take my word for it, I myself know how to dodge, compose a text like this. that you can turn everything upside down, we were taught this at the university, by the way, reluctantly, but it happened.
                    Let me be mobilized, they even gave me everything I needed, I left two children and I see that they teach me drill training, but they don’t teach me how to shoot at targets. I repeat, what I said here, I'm not a kid, so that I could just shut my mouth like that.
                    Prigogine when he attracts criminals. Does he know who he's dealing with? And this contingent is clearly more difficult. Why doesn't this officer know? He was not taught, or forgot? So why the hell did he forget in the army, which is what the article is about.
                    In our 126th coastal defense brigade, officers were let down, it was not a pity to keep some of them, I heard a lot of obscenities at their expense, but for some reason they teach their mobiles. maybe gouging somewhere, but according to the results of the SVO, the 126th became the guards. So maybe they shoved officers into it who also asked uncomfortable questions?
                    Our user has a Crimean partisan, his son serves there, you can ask, I haven’t seen him for a long time and I hope that everything is in order with his son.
                    1. -2
                      17 November 2022 13: 53
                      I read your comment and I'm glad you understood my point. I assure you that yours is understandable and close to me. Combat training is the essence of the service of ANY soldier, whether he is a private, colonel or general!
                      Remembering the cadet years, endless field exits pop up in my memory, the continuous crackling of riflemen and other deadly bells and whistles from the shooting range and the fire training camp, cheers from the school tactical fields and sweat from engineering and physical training.
                      At the same time, I remember the eyes of civilians when 1200 guys cut down a drill during an evening walk around the city or at parades! One does not interfere with the other, and it is clear that in the trenches it is necessary not to march, but to repel enemy attacks or prepare l / s for an offensive. And I'm sorry that, apart from the commander in Grozny, no one could shoot from the KPVT ... There was a mess not only in the country, but it was also in the army.
                      By the way, after some time, many could shoot and even disassemble for cleaning from this very KPVT - the war teaches everyone very quickly!
                      But if in battle such a "moose" declares to the commander that he is not trained enough, that he will break his limbs and that he has a pouch of the wrong system, then he will end up very badly and very quickly!
                      And the "Wagners" in such situations do not lisp with the methods of party political work, but immediately and harshly suppress such "eagles". Therefore, convicts who have decided to choose "Wagner" do not need to explain the rules of conduct and subordination - they are truncated at the interview the first time! The "sledgehammer" effect, so to speak ....
                      1. +2
                        17 November 2022 19: 05
                        I understand you, the father of my friend shot at the front, for the phrase: I will obey the Jewish muzzle. And it’s not the matter of the ward how they will be trained on the one hand, you study, you are taught by professionals. But on the other hand, that psycho. who got out, misunderstanding of the team.
                        This cannot be done in a couple of weeks, but I repeat, the moods, if not all, then a noticeable part of this team, have boiled up there.
                        Could he tease? It's easy, why didn't they take it down right away? Does it sort of dissolve on its own? Well, here is the result.
                      2. +2
                        17 November 2022 22: 26
                        Just don’t constantly use Wagner as an example (even with all their merits), this is a special case, like a private office, and besides, it’s rather muddy, because according to the law we don’t have such people and shouldn’t have them, but they have their own toses. They go to the Wagners voluntarily, that is, having weighed all the + and -, and not as in mobilization.
                      3. 0
                        18 November 2022 08: 05
                        And I don’t bet, I just commented on a specific situation using their example.
                  3. +2
                    17 November 2022 18: 26
                    In general, everything is wrong.

                    The text of the comment is short but capacious.
                5. +4
                  16 November 2022 22: 31
                  Quote: Drozd
                  There is one BUT. This man is a civilian, he is not a military man, not a contract soldier, not a conscript. When conducting mobilization, it should be taken into account that people with different characters and different views on life and subordination will come.

                  stop Wrong dad. After he received a summons and was mobilized by the Higher School of Criminal Procedure, the citizen remained outside the gates of the recruiting station. Now he is a ward of the Ministry of Defense, despite the fact that their duties are mutual and are regulated by the law on military service, the charter and the order, where acts like "Blowing smoke in the face and tapping the chest of an officer" are not an obligation, but a military crime, no difference , whether it is committed by a commander against a subordinate, or by a subordinate against a commander. The fact that this "civilian" in camouflage, with a big head, but with a brain the size of a walnut, equates communication with an officer and a bully showdown in a pub is his personal problem, but this should not be the problem of the army.
                  1. +2
                    16 November 2022 22: 58
                    Thank you, dear, for supporting the RF Armed Forces in general and me in particular!
                    An army without discipline and unity of command is a gang, which has been repeatedly confirmed by world history and it is unsuitable for us today to be led by the eructations of liberal democracy, the perverted upbringing of the 90s, the substitution of true values ​​for the three "values" of today: eat well, sleep softly and comfortably cf. ..th!
                    As for the minus ones, regarding their assessments of certain events under discussion, it often seems to me that there are not so many military men on the Military Review as I used to see ....
                    1. +1
                      17 November 2022 09: 22
                      The minus ones are a flock of authors who hype on this bully. How did they respond about those who are against the bullish yamastersport? "Misunderstood part of the Internet"? Yes Yes...
                      Combining a serviceman who, in front of witnesses, committed the crimes provided for in Articles 334, 336, with shortcomings in combat training - after all, he just wanted justice !!
                      In general, this "truth-lover", I think, will get off cheaply - he will get in the area of ​​\uXNUMXb\uXNUMXbthe six, go on parole - this is instead of a shot through the knee in the combat zone and lifelong disability.
                      1. -2
                        17 November 2022 13: 27
                        Fair ! Let them try to apply such an unexpected move, for example, to a policeman. They will accuse him of the shortcomings of the work of the Ministry of Internal Affairs, obscene and punch him "plywood" .... I wonder how long after that the truth-teller from Alabino will stay a citizen at large?!
                        There have been enough moments in the history of our country that remind us from time immemorial that we must live according to the Law, and revolutions are, of course, fun, but very bloody!
                  2. +7
                    16 November 2022 23: 56
                    In the unit where I served urgently, for four companies and headquarters, I considered only three officers. For their attitude to the service. The rest just went to work for a salary.
              2. The comment was deleted.
            2. +1
              16 November 2022 20: 43
              There is a military police ... The outfit at the headquarters should be called to the place of disassembly.
            3. -1
              17 November 2022 00: 19
              dorz
              Americans have protocols / instructions for all cases and training options

              In the Soviet / Russian army they are called CHARTERS, INSTRUCTIONS и GUIDES
              1. 0
                17 November 2022 18: 32
                There are instructions there too, and there are so many of them that it's hard to imagine.
            4. 0
              23 November 2022 01: 31
              Quote: dorz
              Americans for all cases and training options, there are protocols / instructions. It is necessary not to reinvent the wheel, but to make approximately the same system.

              Protocols, instructions, but until they are prepared and implemented, and even the system of training, retraining will be updated, it will not take even ten years, but everything is on a silver platter, but like am-owls.
          3. +4
            17 November 2022 12: 13
            So-so way to screw up, then go to jail, and the biography is spoiled, and the reputation is tarnished. And so he would return as a hero, though there is a risk posthumously.
            1. +1
              17 November 2022 18: 33
              I wonder who cares about reputation these days.
              1. +2
                18 November 2022 11: 39
                I care. And this boozoter has already tarnished his reputation, he was punished for beating his own mother.
          4. 0
            21 November 2022 03: 00
            I'm afraid that according to such an article in the zone, he will be quickly "cut off". The blue ones themselves do not serve, but those who slacken are not respected.
        2. +30
          16 November 2022 09: 04
          We were masturbated in training such squalor on the drill and the sentries were also driven, then he went to Chechnya in dreams and behaved the same way until the first 200s, then the command first removed him from our command, then generally lowered him below the plinth, putting him in command of the kitchen because there was nothing else was capable, as it turned out. Then we were already retrained in the unit, retrained and taught everything that needed to be known. And this shit was not respected and was not respected at the opportunity when he was drunk, the fighters kicked him and sent him to the zenden was a regular client of the zindan in the commandant's office. And the headache of command.
          1. -10
            16 November 2022 15: 49
            they were able to retrain you because in the first six months they turned you into a soldier who must unquestioningly listen to the commander, and then they polished you to fighters. Without half a year, stupid jerking off of a soldier does not work.
            1. +20
              16 November 2022 16: 16
              Well then go and stupidly fight on the parade ground. We were retrained by a very worthy person, then he became my commander after one excess, we still remember him with warmth, he said forget what you were taught in training here as a warrior and not up to hemming and piping on the back of your head. The training did not teach us to obey, but rather instilled confidence that all officers are jackals and idiots. Only meeting with people with a capital letter like my second commander with Troshev, Gerasimov subsequently strengthened the belief that not fools are sitting on top, but still commanders capable of leading people. So, our commander, with his essentially attitude towards us, as his sons and personally living for each fighter, has earned us the affectionate nickname Batyanya Kombat more often than Dad. He did not dive into a glass; he was an example for us, a man who went through the first soldier in Chechnya as a private, then became an officer.
              1. The comment was deleted.
                1. +2
                  17 November 2022 15: 58
                  Gerasimov and since February 2001 commander of the 58th Combined Arms Army in the North Caucasian Military District. Since August 1999, units of the army have been conducting large-scale military operations during the Second Chechen War. Served as Chief of Staff of the Far Eastern Military District since March 2003,
                2. +2
                  17 November 2022 16: 00
                  Troshev From 1995 to 2002 - commander of the troops during the fighting in Chechnya and Dagestan. With the beginning of the Second Chechen War - Commander of the United Federal Forces in the North Caucasus. From 2003 to 2008 - Advisor to the President of the Russian Federation on Cossack issues.
                  1. 0
                    17 November 2022 16: 30
                    and that you met with everyone, in what ranks did you serve? From the private immediately to the level of the commander jumped.
                    1. +1
                      18 November 2022 07: 13
                      Well, I personally didn’t communicate with them, but they often came with an inspection and the current how these inspections went, how ordinary soldiers were asked how they tasted our gruel in the field kitchen and then saw the supply improve more than once. In view of the frequent incidents with the covering of civilian objects due to some kind of woodpecker, they often checked us. Especially when the commander of our regiment was removed and TsAPLYUK ALEXANDER IOZHEFOVICH was appointed after a notable scandal, our colonel should have been less drunk.
                3. +2
                  17 November 2022 16: 03
                  So if you take the fact that I was there from 06 to 2001. in the same place in the 09.2002th army in the 58nd MDS
          2. +12
            16 November 2022 17: 07
            When we were sent to Tajikistan for reinforcement, before being sent we were driven for almost 4 months at the training ground. They did not spare ammunition and lyuli on us. The commander of our group fought in Angola, the rest of the officers were former Afghans. And this was in a poor year of 1996. A few years ago, with an opportunity, I ended up where I served, so everything was destroyed. And our shooting range, field training center (FCC) and combined arms training ground.
        3. -1
          16 November 2022 13: 05
          Yes, who reads these combat regulations. This is 1. And 2e. And how much do those statutes correspond to something now? When were they written? The pictures are so funny. Another would have drawn the soldiers of 1812.
          But... it's holy! Can't argue!
          1. +23
            16 November 2022 14: 12
            They would have read the charters, they would not have lost so many equipment and people. Order of battle, providing reconnaissance, fire cover, patrols - no, the charter is not written for you, we will drive along the highway with a column of tanks and we will get into the barrel from grenade launchers, and in battle we will send a single tank ahead of the infantry so that all RPGs and birds can calmly aim at it . And after the destruction, they will calmly leave, because such advisers as you have not read the charters and do not know that units are fighting and in battle they all cover each other. And then a single tank, a single plane, a single gun. I don’t want to bey, because it won’t fly back.
            1. +6
              16 November 2022 15: 41
              So they went in a column. As it should be. They NEVER went any other way. What did all these smart people study in their schools and academies?
              1. +6
                16 November 2022 20: 09
                keep nice journals. Various pastes.
                1. +1
                  17 November 2022 03: 55
                  By the way, these are the notes that amused me the most. Well, it's okay that no one dealt with them. But after all, the usual basic things should simply be written in advance. You don't have to write anything at all. Let 2/3 be developed and written by special people and printed in a book or something like that. And leave 1/3 for the creativity of the commander.
            2. +14
              16 November 2022 16: 41
              To do this, from the beginning, commanders need to go into battle together with their subordinates, and not sit at headquarters and listen to negotiations. If you don’t know anything besides theory, what’s the use of the charter. Sitting on the couch, you can argue for a long time, I’ll tell you better than any officer how a column should be formed, how the combat guards of supply columns should be organized. How to advance along the road if there is a muddy road. Since he himself went through all this as an ordinary fighter. And my heart bled when I saw fuel trucks without guards traveling along the roads of Ukraine. Elementary even without overlapping turntables. When a single self-propelled gun is brought to direct fire against a fortified point with ATGMs, well, this is the height of idiocy, I think. Or I watch how a single BMP carries fighters across the field at speed just to slip through an open area. Or another episode, the commander gathers the fighters in full view of the enemy’s copter and builds everyone and then a grenade flies on you from above or another game gun is standing in the field, not dug in shells are on the ground near the gun where elementary safety precautions, because if you are an anti-tankman and you have a rapier, then it must be dug in; a mesh is stretched; Also for the position of the mortars, this is a guarantee that not all the crew will die immediately. But no, we will make it as simple as we put everything on the ground and then we will blow everything up at once from the arrival from the drone. Even in Chechnya, we didn’t carry more than 9 shells to self-propelled guns, since this amount is enough for a quick fire raid and subsequent move to a reserve position where you replenish the ammunition and again leave for a raid from a reserve position.
              1. +10
                16 November 2022 17: 57
                This is not a problem of the charter, but of its non-execution. This is exactly what I wrote about. First the charter, then its implementation. And if they don’t fulfill it, we need to figure out why and who is to blame, and not blame everything on the charter, which, if they had been executed, would have ended long ago with the defeat of the Armed Forces of Ukraine. After all, not a single offensive operation was carried out from the very beginning of the NMD, because they do not know how. This is a difficult task, to ensure the interaction of different types of troops on the offensive, so our parquet generals prefer to put troops under enemy artillery attacks, wanting to play for time, and then how the map will fall. In such a situation, the Armed Forces of Ukraine have full carte blanche for any offensive actions.
              2. +9
                16 November 2022 18: 13
                As an example of the lack of initial knowledge. At the very beginning of the SVO, I saw an excerpt from the video, how 4 of our tanks drove to the crossroads and turned their barrels in different directions. What's the matter? They stood in the center of the intersection, next to each other, blocking both the sector of fire and the possibility of maneuver, let's omit the moment that their own infantry was not around at all. After all, if you are a contract tanker, then why do I, a conscript who was sitting in a tank 15 years ago, know that in such a situation it is necessary to stand at the exits from the intersection and cover each other, and these officers with a large salary have never opened any textbooks on stories, no memoirs of tankers, no combat regulations? After all, everything has already been studied and worked out in practice. Do you know what tactics our tanks use? According to the German period from 1944 to 1945. The tactics of the losing side. Not the tactics of the winners, according to which tanks almost never come under fire from grenade launchers, because the infantry is ahead, but according to the tactics of the Germans, when heavily armored tigers and panthers go ahead, opening anti-tank guns with their armor. That's just since the Second World War, in the race of shells and armor, shells and missiles have won. In this situation, the Soviet experience is more relevant than ever, but for this you need to love history and study it, and I strongly doubt that there are lovers of reading in the army.
          2. +4
            16 November 2022 18: 10
            mmaxx
            Yes, who reads these combat regulations

            Have you read these statutes yourself? Not? Then what are we talking about?
            ... Oh, and disgusting your Mozart! - How do you know? - And Rabinovich sang to me!
            1. 0
              17 November 2022 03: 58
              Eeee .... but they are secret, adnaka. It's just that they can't be read. This is only up to a platoon or company (I just don’t remember anymore) chipboard.
              1. 0
                17 November 2022 11: 25
                Well no. Download it on the Internet)) And it’s on sale in bookstores, I saw it myself)) Chipboards are equipment operation manuals)) Instructions and charters are not secret))
                1. 0
                  17 November 2022 17: 34
                  Yes, well them. The interest is long gone. I would like two books from the past. But on paper. "Manual on Subversion" and "US Army Bombs and Fuzes". True, terrorism would not have been sewn for the first. And I'm just out of nostalgia.
            2. 0
              17 November 2022 04: 00
              Mozart didn't sing at all.
              Armprrpp laughing prorpaaoooma. These letters, darn kament passed laughing
              1. 0
                17 November 2022 11: 27
                We know you haven't read Rembrandt laughing Only listened belay
                Armprrpp - good hack))) Thank you. Must be armed am
                1. 0
                  17 November 2022 17: 30
                  Rabinovich - power! Everything can. And anecdotes from him .....
        4. -8
          16 November 2022 14: 53
          Quote: Vladimir_2U
          Quote: Saladine
          Therefore, should the mobilized be allowed to shoot once every two weeks, and the rest of the time they should train the drill, learn the regulations and disassemble / assemble the AK?

          So this is why?
          And as for the charters ... When, upon arrival at the LBS, they build up practically in full view of the enemy and forget about dispersal, is this according to your charter? After all, the charter can also be combat ...


          By this charter, the best thing you can do is to heat a potbelly stove, and maybe it won’t hurt to go to the toilet with it.
          Tk literalism, bureaucracy and dibilism have not yet led anyone to victory.
          You need to think with your head and not with a charter.
          1. +8
            16 November 2022 17: 18
            Quote from: newtc7
            By this charter, the best thing you can do is to heat a potbelly stove, and maybe it won’t hurt to go to the toilet with it.
            You need to think with your head and not with a charter.

            Those. do you imagine that the charter says about the construction in mind of the enemy's reconnaissance means?
            122
            Chapter Seven
            LOCATION ON THE SITE
            1. Location of a platoon (squad, tank) in place
            379. A platoon on the spot may be located in the area of ​​concentration, the initial area, the area
            waiting area, rest area and other areas...
            .... The area where the platoon is located should ensure the dispersed and covert placement of weapons and military equipment, the convenience of accommodation and recreation for personnel. Infantry fighting vehicles (armored personnel carriers), tanks are located in the places indicated by the platoon commander under the crowns of trees, in ravines, in the radar shadow from local objects at a distance of 25-50 m
            from each other, but in open areas and under the threat of enemy use
            precision weapons - 100-150 m.
            When located in place for a long time for combat
            infantry vehicles (armored personnel carriers), tanks are equipped with trenches and shelters. Personnel are stationed near their cars, tear off cracks, and if there is time, they arrange overlapping cracks or dugouts


            So you can charter and not study the charter.
            1. +1
              18 November 2022 16: 46
              And if I say I place them according to my own scheme, which in this particular situation will be more profitable than it is prescribed, now I need to be shot?
              As you cannot understand, it is impossible in any book, especially written God knows when to define reality.
              It is reality that determines the letters and not the letters reality.
              It may make sense, of course, what you described, but it hardly works 100% of the time.
          2. 0
            16 November 2022 18: 11
            newtc7
            By this charter, the best thing you can do is to drown a potbelly stove

            Once again, the question is: Have you read the statutes yourself? Then how can you reason from what you don't know?
            1. 0
              18 November 2022 16: 47
              Quote: futurohunter
              newtc7
              By this charter, the best thing you can do is to drown a potbelly stove

              Once again, the question is: Have you read the statutes yourself? Then how can you reason from what you don't know?


              I served in the army, and there, for two hours a day, for the first couple of months, we read some charter of military service or something like that, I don’t remember. I clearly remember that more idiocy than an army charter is only an army military commissar.
              1. 0
                18 November 2022 18: 10
                Apparently you were not lucky either with the commander or with the political officer. And perhaps with a military unit, and with the troops.
                If you cut stones with an ax, you can also spoil it ...
                1. 0
                  19 November 2022 00: 17
                  Quote: futurohunter
                  Apparently you were not lucky either with the commander or with the political officer. And perhaps with a military unit, and with the troops.
                  If you cut stones with an ax, you can also spoil it ...


                  Lucky bad luck, it's not my fault. Part by part, most of my friends who were in the army told the same thing. From combat training, shooting at the horn once a month. Well, at least the targets were normal and the shooting range too. All.
                  And it's not just me who served like that, 95% of recruits serve like that.
                  What questions do we have? Yes, for this you can make Rambo out of a person, but no one cares about anything in our country.
                  1. 0
                    19 November 2022 14: 06
                    What years was it? And what troops?
                    1. 0
                      26 November 2022 02: 24
                      Replied to your other post above. Short comment
      2. +47
        16 November 2022 09: 02
        I have long noticed that the more combat-ready the army, the worse the parades and vice versa. In the IDF, parades are generally prohibited and there is no drill.
        There is a simple logic here. If you are preparing to fight, then you are preparing to fight and you have no time for stupidity. Drilling, in addition to wasting time, increases the risk of hitting a unit, i.e. directly opposed to combat effectiveness.
        We also need to ban parades and drills. There is no benefit from them, but only harm. The nonsense about the "coordination" of the unit is simply painful to read already. There is only combat coordination, including individual training of personnel, coordination of headquarters (departments) of formations and military units, combat coordination of subdivisions, military units and formations.
        1. +4
          16 November 2022 09: 12
          Quote from cold wind
          Nonsense about the "harmonization" of the unit is simply painful to read.

          There is also sports coordination, such as carrying a log or "wounded", so that's nonsense - it's not always nonsense.
          1. +14
            16 November 2022 12: 09
            There is also sports coordination, such as carrying a log or "wounded", so that's nonsense - it's not always nonsense.
            The wounded still need to be evacuated wisely, otherwise you can kill them not on purpose. We were already taught in the unit how to evacuate wisely.
            1. 0
              16 November 2022 17: 21
              Quote: insafufa
              The wounded still need to be evacuated wisely, otherwise you can kill them not on purpose. We were already taught in the unit how to evacuate wisely.

              This is understandable, but this is not about specifically medical training, but about dragging your comrade without crippling it, during the competition, let's say, squads in a platoon. Because the log still needs to be found, but here it is, comrade! laughing
        2. +14
          16 November 2022 10: 14
          You're right. In the IDF, any girl will plug her belt into her belt, such is the mobile.
          Because she was taught to fight, but not to tie a bow on the parade
          1. 0
            21 November 2022 13: 27
            U-58
            In the IDF, any girl

            Did you serve in the IDF? What will you deny that there are no parades, dress uniforms, drills and military discipline? I will not believe. It is in any army. What for? Graduate from a military school, and you will learn everything during training. It is long to explain.
            Learning to fight is not enough. It is necessary that in battle the unit be well controlled and act in a coordinated manner, and not that any partisan shoots wherever he wants. An undisciplined and disorganized bunch of armed men - a gang of militants.
            Although a tightened, but incapable of shooting, army is not an army
            1. 0
              21 November 2022 17: 07
              Well, in what part did you expose me?
              Wrote elementary common truths.
              And I agree with you.
              I see no subject for discussion.
        3. +20
          16 November 2022 13: 06
          I agree. This nonsense should be limited to KMB. And fans of marching to drive to hell.
          1. +2
            16 November 2022 16: 54
            We recall the conflict between Suvorov and Pavel, regarding the introduction of the Prussian order in the army, incl. Prussian parade step (which migrated to both the Soviet and Russian armies), as they say: what is good for a German is death for a Russian.
        4. +13
          16 November 2022 15: 46
          Everything is simple. It takes time and effort to organize combat training. Loafers in uniform like shagistics. One sergeant and 50 people employed. You can mind your own business.
          I pay for the annual parade on May 9th. I understand that people need a holiday. But maybe once every 5 years? How so? A lot of people, cadets, etc., etc., have been busy with just crap for 3 months. Crap. Yes, it takes a little to prepare often. Just practice. For a normal man, everything is useful.
          1. +6
            16 November 2022 17: 12
            Quote: mmaxx
            It takes time and effort to organize combat training.


            And also fuel, ammunition, equipment repair, maintenance of ranges and shooting ranges. And for this you need adequate funding. And in order for the funding to reach the recipient, it is necessary to destroy corruption. And again we rest against the fact that the fish rots from the head.
            1. +2
              17 November 2022 03: 51
              And sometimes you don't need anything at all. Tankers, etc. yes. But most land riders have a lot of exercises where nothing is needed at all. Moreover, they are the most necessary.
        5. +4
          16 November 2022 16: 47
          The Tsahal is not an example, since it has been fighting against partisans for a long time, like our Army, and now they met the enemy in the person of the entire collective Z and their natives, their ruins are ready to die, if only the owner calls them his beloved wife, but the owner, as he considered them sluts, continues to use them as a well-known rubber product.
        6. -1
          18 November 2022 16: 49
          But it is spelled out in everyone's so beloved Charter. But they won’t write anything stupid there ... it’s written by real fighters who went through fire and water and not staff rats.
          1. 0
            21 November 2022 13: 32
            There is also a combat charter. Read http://militera.lib.ru/regulations/0/g/2005_bu3.pdf
            For your information, fighters, without staff, as you please, "rats", will die in the very first battle ... With all their "combat training"
            1. -1
              22 November 2022 16: 51
              Yes, I'm not saying that staffs are not needed. It just feels like you have never been in the army, since you don’t know how everything is done there. No, maybe there are parts somewhere where everything is done according to the mind and real combat training is underway. But I didn’t serve in such and didn’t hear such a thing, everywhere the same senseless crap.
              What do you propose to blame the soldiers for this? And who is to blame then if not the staff officers, and all other officers from lieutenant to general. No need to look for the guilty where there are none. The Russian warrior has always been good, the Russian commander has basically always been so-so: stupid, lazy, everything is at random, he cares mainly about his authority and not about the lives of the fighters. Not all of course, but most of them are. And this problem needs to be solved somehow. For starters, it’s good to understand why not the best people get upstairs and change this system
              1. -1
                22 November 2022 17: 09
                It looks like you didn't serve. I served during the USSR. There were also footcloths)) And our commander was "dad".
                Although, judging by the style of the text, you are not from Russia at all.
                Solve your own problems first... solver
                1. 0
                  26 November 2022 02: 16
                  Quote: futurohunter
                  It looks like you didn't serve. I served during the USSR. There were also footcloths)) And our commander was "dad".
                  Although, judging by the style of the text, you are not from Russia at all.
                  Solve your own problems first... solver

                  Where am I interested? Served 2008-2009 under Dmitrov MO, I probably won’t mention the name of the unit. By the way, we also had footcloths, the last call for such a next one was already in berets and socks. It looked pretty funny when the old-timers in boots and spirits in berets))
                  And what in the style of my test does not suit you, I don’t understand in any way ??
                  Perhaps in the USSR, combat training was not bad, but if you noticed, it was not the USSR for a long time. Luckily
      3. +6
        16 November 2022 11: 51
        all the rest of the time to train drill, learn charters and disassemble / assemble AK?

        As our new head of the course at the military institute, newly sent from the troops, told us: "How will you raise your children with such knowledge of the regulations?" ))
        He was also a notable fan of drill training. But the truth is that by the 5th year I got a little rougher
      4. +5
        16 November 2022 17: 00
        Quote: Saladine
        Therefore, should the mobilized be allowed to shoot once every two weeks, and the rest of the time they should train the drill, learn the regulations and disassemble / assemble the AK?

        This is what dill would like. In fact, it is necessary to teach those who really participated in the hostilities, preferably people from the LDNR. We need to send them on business trips to all our training centers. And for good, they had to recruit a team of future "teachers" so that they could conduct a course on this training, again, those who participate in hostilities from the LDNR.
      5. +4
        16 November 2022 20: 03
        And if you want to laugh, then read the Combat Regulations, squad, defensive platoon on the offensive with clever schemes. And the fact that they are written in blood, if they acted according to the situation, then there would be no blood. Krasnoprosvetny stupid people are not extinct.
    2. +33
      16 November 2022 06: 33
      Very competent, in wonderful Russian, article! Thanks to the authors.. 5++
      1. +20
        16 November 2022 10: 13
        "Plywood Marshal's Mortgage Troops"
        Will go down in history.
        Refresh the army.
        But what about mortgages? Who counts bricks bulette? And who will build the bathhouses in the dachas of the commanders?
        And the economists at the headquarters.
        And overspending solar.
        A 1,5 million sets of Gurulev uniforms
        1. +5
          16 November 2022 18: 03
          You also forgot to mention the "Sewing Troops" of the "plywood marshal". With colonel's and general's epaulettes.
          True, evil tongues call them his "personal harem", but also evil tongues ...
      2. -3
        16 November 2022 18: 14
        The article clearly reveals the level of stupidity of the commenters ... And the article itself is stupid
      3. +1
        17 November 2022 18: 38
        Competent? In excellent Russian? Oh God. Can a presentation at the level of an eighth grade student really be called that ???
    3. -8
      16 November 2022 08: 27
      There is a preparation method. Everything you need is cooked in
    4. +1
      16 November 2022 15: 01
      What kind of nonsense? Have you served in the army? Did you start a term with the UC or did you immediately get into the active part without preparation?
      1. -4
        16 November 2022 17: 23
        Quote: RED_ICE
        What kind of nonsense? Have you served in the army? Did you start a term with the UC or did you immediately get into the active part without preparation?

        And what is the nonsense?
        Didn't serve, but I have an idea.
        So what's the nonsense?
        1. +8
          16 November 2022 17: 48
          That there is no need to invent anything. All military units have guidelines for combat training. They have everything. And if they don’t deal with mobiles, then this is the fault of the command of the military unit.
          1. 0
            17 November 2022 03: 35
            Quote: RED_ICE
            That there is no need to invent anything. All military units have guidelines for combat training. They have everything.

            It’s wonderful that there is, then why do some have one preparation, while others have this? If the documents are the same...
            And the fact that it is somehow suitable for recruits, to put it mildly, does not fit the mobilized.
        2. +2
          16 November 2022 18: 15
          Vladimir_2U (Vladimir)
          Didn't serve, but I have an idea

          I haven't heard Mozart, but I have an idea! So?
          1. -1
            17 November 2022 03: 41
            Quote: futurohunter
            I haven't heard Mozart, but I have an idea! So?

            A little different - I didn’t play Mozart, but I listened to it, and the solo of the drunk on a stool is different from the Moscow Virtuosos, for example.
            But in fact, I do not live in a vacuum and was not born on the moon and not yesterday. And he dealt with warriors and talked with conscripts ...
            1. -4
              17 November 2022 09: 25
              Vladimir_2U
              dealt with warriors and talked with conscripts

              Nonetheless. "Oh, your Shostakovich is disgusting! - Where did you get it from? - And Rabinovich sang to me yesterday!"
              Before judging the army, you yourself should be in uniform for at least a year ...
              And then you only have "songs of the Rabinovichs" ... Crooked mirrors.
              And now too many people talk without getting up from the couch.
              Until recently, every second person was a covid expert. Then all of a sudden, experts in the army, NVO and Ukraine joined together.
              Would you like to fly with a pilot who "didn't fly himself, but has an idea - he talked with pilots - he wasn't born on the moon"?
              1. -2
                17 November 2022 11: 01
                Quote: futurohunter
                Nonetheless. "Oh, your Shostakovich is disgusting! - Where did you get it from? - And Rabinovich sang to me yesterday!"
                Before judging the army, you yourself should be in uniform for at least a year ...
                And then you only have "songs of the Rabinovichs" ... Crooked mirrors.
                And now too many people talk without getting up from the couch.
                Until recently, every second person was a covid expert. Then all of a sudden, experts in the army, NVO and Ukraine joined together.
                Would you like to fly with a pilot who "didn't fly himself, but has an idea - he talked with pilots - he wasn't born on the moon"?

                In short, you yourself can only give a general set of words ...
                1. -1
                  17 November 2022 11: 23
                  I, unlike you, served. I have many military relatives. Plus, I'm actively interested in this case, unlike you. They didn't say anything about the pilot...
                  1. -1
                    17 November 2022 11: 37
                    Quote: futurohunter
                    I, unlike you, served. I have many military relatives. Plus, I'm actively interested in this case, unlike you.

                    I'm happy for you, unless of course you're lying, just a question, but what would you yourself do in the place of a mobilizant? Are you not such a serviceman as this wretched colonel, or who is he?
                    Quote: futurohunter
                    They didn't say anything about the pilot...
                    I have no doubt that I would have served the term as hello ... And with a little training, and instead of this, I would have completely pulled the polkan. Based on both other people's and your own experience.
                    1. -3
                      17 November 2022 13: 57
                      Vladimir_2U
                      and what would you yourself do in the place of a mobilizant?
                      I already wrote in this thread that, while serving in the Soviet army, and being a private in rank, I wrote a report to the Minister of Defense himself (over the heads of all commanders, by the way))). And got a very fast response. And you have no idea how all the commanders rustled after that)) By the way, not a single ensign even dared to swear at me after that))

                      And not a mobilizant - there is no such word in Russian - a mobilized reservist
                    2. -4
                      17 November 2022 14: 06
                      Vladimir_2U
                      Are you not such a serviceman as this wretched colonel, or who is he?
                      You don't know anything about this colonel. Except that he failed to put the insolent soldier in his place.
                      I honestly served as a private in the ranks of the Soviet army. So don't even compare me to the colonel.

                      They didn't say anything about the pilot...
                      Apparently, there will be no answer. Double standard.

                      I have no doubt that I would have served the term as hello ...
                      What's stopping you from signing a contract? And how did it come to the point, immediately into the bushes?

                      And with a little training, and instead of this, the polkan would have completely pulled. Based on both other people's and your own experience.
                      Yeah, the officers are all fools. The academy is over. For many years they were only engaged in combatant and read charters. Well, also, in their free time from stepping, they read Clausewitz, Suvorov and Zhukov.
                      And instead of them, such a handsome sofa will come, who does not command anything except his keyboard, and will show you how to do it! All enemies will be defeated! By oneself!
                      1. -1
                        17 November 2022 16: 01
                        Quote: futurohunter
                        And not a mobilizant - there is no such word in Russian - a mobilized reservist

                        You might think there are mobs or mobs, a mobilizant sounds more respectful at least.
                        Quote: futurohunter
                        By the way, not a single ensign after that even dared to swear at me))
                        I'm really proud of you...



                        Quote: futurohunter
                        They didn't say anything about the pilot...
                        Apparently, there will be no answer. Double standard.
                        Well, if you do not understand what is the answer:

                        Quote: Vladimir_2U
                        Quote: futurohunter
                        They didn't say anything about the pilot...
                        I have no doubt that I would have served the term as hello ... And with a little training, and instead of this, I would have completely pulled the polkan. Based on both other people's and your own experience.
                        Excuse me, something else to explain to such a dull one ...


                        Quote: futurohunter
                        What's stopping you from signing a contract? And how did it come to the point, immediately into the bushes?
                        Age, health and lack of VUS, and there is no special desire, but you are probably writing from a trench, right?

                        Quote: futurohunter
                        Yeah, the officers are all fools. The academy is over. For many years they were only engaged in combatant and read charters. Well, also, in their free time from stepping, they read Clausewitz, Suvorov and Zhukov.
                        Oh, what cheap demagogy ... Where about all the officers? I did not write. Where about the stupidity of the Charters? I did not write. He even cited as an example paragraphs that some gentlemen officers neglected.
                        Yes, you are a troll.


                        Quote: futurohunter
                        And instead of them, such a handsome sofa will come, who does not command anything except his keyboard, and will show you how to do it! All enemies will be defeated! By oneself!
                        Just like a troll. It is possible that both a liar and a virgin.

                        In general, by the way, it’s not clear that you are better acquainted with army affairs than I am, and I can use quotes from the Regulations.


                        Quote: futurohunter
                        Vladimir_2U (Vladimir)
                        Didn't serve, but I have an idea
                        I haven't heard Mozart, but I have an idea! So?
                        According to other comments, there will be claims, or the only thing that they understood?
                      2. -3
                        17 November 2022 20: 20
                        Vladimir_2U
                        mobs or mobiks, mobilizant at least sounds more respectful

                        I have not seen or heard such obscene words from anyone except sofa warriors from this forum

                        I'm really proud of you...

                        Be proud... am Probably, the headquarters were also proud when they called me for a conversation. By the way, they talked respectfully and sincerely. It’s a pity they didn’t give a written answer from Yazov, I would have posted it here for Fom unbelievers

                        They didn't say anything about the pilot...
                        Well, if you do not understand what is the answer:
                        And with a little training and instead of this, the polkan would have completely pulled
                        Alas, I didn’t see anything other than fingers like a fan ... Somehow, gestures in the style of Dundee Crocodile do not work in our world ... wassat

                        Where about all the officers? I did not write
                        You wrote that you are cooler than a colonel who served for years and has an education. And judge the situation based on the impressions of a 5-minute fragment taken out of context
                        what a cheap demagogy ...

                        A very strong argument...

                        Yes, you are a troll

                        What to do if you ask yourself? laughing

                        It is possible that he is a liar
                        In which place? request

                        virgin
                        Can I introduce you to my adult children?

                        In general, by the way, it’s not clear that you are better acquainted with army affairs than I am.
                        And I see only off scale ignorance and a sense of self-importance. With no reason to do so...

                        According to other comments there will be claims
                        You are a boring person...
                      3. -1
                        17 November 2022 20: 44
                        Vladimir_2U
                        I will add: unlike you, I do not claim commanding authority ... Although I had a chance to command a squad ...
                      4. -2
                        18 November 2022 04: 11
                        Quote: futurohunter
                        Vladimir_2U
                        I will add: unlike you, I do not claim commanding authority ... Although I had a chance to command a squad ...

                        Come on, come on, poke me in my claims to command authority.
                        And the department is 5 people, and I commanded five men, while not hiding behind the charter.
                      5. 0
                        18 November 2022 09: 44
                        Vladimir_2U
                        Come on, come on, poke me in my claims to command authority.


                        Well then:
                        And with a little training and instead of this, the polkan would have completely pulled

                        What's this? Now justify your fingers with a fan am
                      6. -2
                        18 November 2022 10: 26
                        Quote: futurohunter
                        And with a little training and instead of this, the polkan would have completely pulled

                        What's this? Now justify your fingers with a fan

                        Learn Russian, dear Anatoly.
                        Because the assumption of the possibility of replacing someone is not at all a claim (desire) to replace someone.
                        WOULD [cf. b1] particle. 1. With the form of past. temp. forms the subjunctive mood in the meaning: 1) the alleged possibility of action
                      7. -1
                        18 November 2022 13: 51
                        In this case, semantically there is no difference... You could == you claim you can do it
                      8. -2
                        18 November 2022 19: 11
                        Quote: futurohunter
                        In this case, semantically there is no difference... You could == you claim you can do it

                        You made a gross logical error, and in the shameful feminist style "I can - it means I want to." If you did it unintentionally, then this is just an indicator of the mind ... If intentionally, then my assumption that you may be a "liar and a virgin" is justified.
                      9. 0
                        19 November 2022 00: 02
                        And you have no arguments at all. I see only insults, attacks on the person, stupid attempts at manipulation, etc. Including your own illiteracy. Actually, you have the only "argument" - "I am d'Artagnan, the rest are suckers." Have you tried looking in the mirror?
                      10. -1
                        18 November 2022 14: 27
                        From 6 to 12 people...
                        Ignorance, in general, is quite difficult to cover up ...
                      11. -2
                        18 November 2022 18: 58
                        Quote: futurohunter
                        From 6 to 12 people...
                        Ignorance, in general, is quite difficult to cover up ...

                        What, did you quickly look at Wiki? Well done, and here I am from memory.
                        Well, 6 from 5 is not too different.
                      12. 0
                        19 November 2022 00: 08
                        I just know...
                        Vladimir_2U
                        6 from 5 is not too different

                        Not too hard? Are you ready to receive a salary of 16% less? You can even pay me 1/6 of your salary, and I will write that you are right laughing Why do you need her? It's not too different wassat
                      13. 0
                        19 November 2022 00: 18
                        Along the way, a question arose. Aggression, especially verbal, is a sign of fear. What are you afraid of? Think at your leisure ... And if it’s true, it’s not scary, you can publicly write what you are afraid of
                      14. -2
                        18 November 2022 04: 13
                        Quote: futurohunter
                        According to other comments there will be claims
                        You are a boring person...

                        That's basically it, you just clung to this.
                        Quote: Vladimir_2U
                        Vladimir_2U (Vladimir)
                        Didn't serve, but I have an idea
                        And on the other points, there is a ringing emptiness ... Well, a set of demagogy.
                      15. -2
                        18 November 2022 09: 48
                        set of demagogy

                        This is the trick of the demagogue... When there is nothing to answer the opponent, they caught him by the tongue, there is nothing else left but to try to accuse him of demagogy.

                        You just got hooked on this.
                        Didn't serve, but I have an idea

                        Not only. At least twice, fingers like a fan ... Although, as I understand it, this is a vital position ... Well, if this is so, you just have to wait for a bucket of cold water ... You won’t wait from me, it will happen by itself ... Life will show ... There is no point in talking about something further ...
                      16. -1
                        18 November 2022 10: 27
                        Quote: futurohunter
                        Not only. At least twice, fingers like a fan ... Although, as I understand it, this is a vital position ... Well, if this is so, you just have to wait for a bucket of cold water ... You won’t wait from me, it will happen by itself ... Life will show ... There is no point in talking about something further ...

                        What a warm but cloudy water...
                      17. -2
                        18 November 2022 13: 47
                        What, are you already swimming in it? So go on ... Sofa-sea troops ...
                      18. -1
                        18 November 2022 18: 56
                        Quote: futurohunter
                        What, are you already swimming in it? So go on ... Sofa-sea troops ...

                        It pours out of you, with foam ...
                      19. -1
                        19 November 2022 00: 12
                        You yourself described your feelings and impressions ... Apparently you tried ...
                        And antipsychotics are good for hallucinations ... Especially when the hallucinations are repetitive ...
                        Maybe you can see the source with a sober look ...
                      20. +1
                        17 November 2022 16: 15
                        76. The commander (chief) is obliged to maintain the combat and mobilization readiness of the entrusted military unit (subdivision):

                        develop action plans to maintain and improve combat and mobilization readiness and achieve their implementationtimely make the necessary changes and clarifications to the plans;

                        achieve full provision with weapons, military equipment and other military property, organize their proper operation;

                        Not all mobs, mobiks, mobilizants, mobilized are obliged to be - something is required from commanders.
                      21. -3
                        17 November 2022 20: 22
                        Vladimir_2U
                        Not all mobs, mobiks, mobilizants, mobilized are required to be - something is required from commanders

                        Laws are binding on everyone ... By the way, the statutes also say this
            2. -1
              17 November 2022 09: 36
              Professional computer scientists have words kettleand lamer. Kettle - a novice computer who is well aware of the insufficiency of his qualifications. Lamer - militant kettle
              1. 0
                17 November 2022 12: 23
                And how to call a personnel lamer? That is, a person who, in all respects, should be a pro, and he is a lamer .... In this speech, where the commentators are still divided into two conditional camps, it is useless to participate. Because, purely IMHO, it is necessary to punish not only these two. And how much more people ..... Well, or citizens, here's how to look))
                Of course, the fighter somewhat "beguiled the shores" and must bear it ..... And you can't argue, and the charter orders and in general ...
                On the other hand, why was mobilization announced? Were the men overtaken for "shagistika" and "internal order"? Or to participate in CBO? So there, neither stepping, nor order was flattened to anyone .... And instead of at least somehow trained fighters, after this colonel, they will send a bunch of "who know how to walk together"? anyway, there are enough materials about some .... "representatives of the Russian command" and their talents. What, after the demonstration of this colonel, is not surprising ....
                1. -2
                  17 November 2022 13: 53
                  Do not confuse flies with meatballs.
                  There are 2 problems here. One systemic, associated with SVO. It is well known, and this "voice of the people" will not change anything.
                  And the other is a violation of discipline by a soldier. And no one cares about his semi-criminal character, bully life experience and low level of culture. Appropriate organizational conclusions should be drawn from this. Rowdy - to arrest and to the guardhouse. Those who filmed and supported the buzzer - also under the tribunal. Make the case public. Colonel - for certification, for compliance with the official position (also in accordance with the Disciplinary Regulations). In part - the commission. From above, control everything and take action
                  But this is ideal. In practice, alas, "we will figure it out as it should, and we will punish anyone." Although, I think that the colonel also got "on the nuts."
                  Once again I will add what I wrote here many times. Without discipline, there is not a single army in the world, not in one country. "Shagistika", as you call it, is part of the training of fighters. It is necessary and not discussed, but should not replace combat training.
                  By the way, commanders and political workers (deputy committee for educational affairs) should conduct explanatory work with new fighters about military discipline, subordination, and the procedure for filing complaints and proposals (it is also spelled out in the Disciplinary Regulations).
                  By the way, the situation is taken out of context. We don't even know if it was just a public scandal "on camera", or there were actually problems - don't believe everything that is posted on the Internet
                  1. +1
                    17 November 2022 14: 50
                    As for "flies and cutlets" - this is not for me. The prerogatives of the Supreme are sacred feel
                    As for the rest ... I did not offer to give a cookie to this dunce. Of course, how not to relate to this, there is a charter and other ... regulations ... Which, of course, must be fulfilled. CHSH, not only in the sun. The problem is (the stump is clear, IMHO) that all this (charter)) is remembered when someone needs to be punished. For whatever. At the same time ... other parties .... events, unfortunately, too often do not bear responsibility at all. And it didn't start yesterday or even in 2000... And there's no point in compiling a list of examples here, because everyone already knows this. For example, the problem of the so-called “Spark”, which was loudly noisy through the efforts of “Ogonyok” and not only him in the relevant years. "hazing". Again, ChSH, in some parts this .. "barracks hooliganism2 was practically absent, in others it flourished completely. With the same charters and, it would seem, commanders .... Which is explained by only one thing. If the commander wants - this is, he does not want - this is not the case. The opportunities he had were quite enough for .... preventing)) ... But there was a problem and still remained, although not on the same scale. such a conflict. It ended with a slight ... suggestion)) ... encroaching and the arrival of the military police. Actually, the "undressing of the young" happened in different places. Just like in different places - they didn’t smell. This is all to the same topic .... And to her - too often, in the era of the same "bullying" all these military prosecutors and others were simply shoving problems under the cloth and smearing the survivors .... Alas ....
                    In the same way, as in the days of the same union, in some parts that same combat training went on, at the very least, but in others ..... Moreover, we are talking about approximately the same parts, of course .... Well, all that, since they served, you know no worse than me .... And there, "across the river" with the same charter, some served themselves quite well, trying not to ruin the l / s in vain, while others .... There are more than examples, ICHSH, nothing terrible, most often (with very rare exceptions) for these second ones it did not end with anything. Etc. etc.
                    Examples can be cited among flyers and sailors, and generally everywhere, people are the same everywhere ....
                    As for the shagistika, that is, combatant, it somehow seems that in parts of the LPR / DPR, especially in 2014/2015, it was not so hot with it. In the same way as it was not very good with her during the Second World War. except perhaps in the places where marching units were created)).... Where there were those who really did not serve at all ....
                    Too often, we have the same drill (with the maintenance of internal order)) has to be not together, but instead. Especially in those places where the well-known heat-treated bird did not peck at the crown of fellow officers. We see the result. I would have told a lot more about these very "mobiks", not from a cart, but what's the point? In some places, they are driven and strained to the best of their ability. As expected. But by no means a combatant and not others .... stupidity, so dear to the heart of others .... military ....
                    In others .... It can be assumed, as in this case (if, of course, everything was about the way it was, anything can be). But everything will end with the fact that they will give the dunce a hat, the colonel - they will be moved and that's it.
                    What such an approach leads to on a national scale, being quite widespread - we see. Taking into account the available modest, but, nevertheless, opportunities, this circus with horses called SVO, as well as before it, import substitution with digitalization and other obscene language quite illuminate this twilight.....
                    EMNIP, they began to reform the RIA only after the REV, when some of its .... features became well, very obvious. And before that, everything went ..... in accordance with the charter. And where it came - we know. Unfortunately.....
                    1. +1
                      17 November 2022 15: 58
                      I myself have a lot of questions about SVO arise ...
                      As for the charter, I remember how the neighboring part was "led to the charter" during the Soviet era. With the replacement of commanders. Yes, non-Ustavism is completely the "merit" of the commanders. Then I had a chance to visit this part. The order was exemplary, and the sergeants had the rudest curse - "What, thieves or what?"
                      I saw another part, where a demobilized Chechen played ping-pong with a commander, a young lieutenant. Luckily, I didn't work there.
                    2. -1
                      17 November 2022 16: 03
                      The statutes are similar to the laws in civilian life. This is the legal basis of the army (in addition to the legislation of the Russian Federation). As you understand, any law can be conscientiously executed, or it can be "executed". Alas, no one canceled the hack and the imitation of violent activity. That's why there were parts where during the day there were walkers, at night there was chaos, and at the training grounds soldiers were shooting at each other ...
                      1. +1
                        17 November 2022 17: 22
                        About this and speech. But, as a rule, all this fuss ends as usual. With the search for the guilty, the punishment of the guilty and the rewarding of the uninvolved. Not excluding the first two stages ...
                        Therefore, here, oddly enough, both sides are right ... discussants)). And not right - too)).
                      2. -1
                        17 November 2022 20: 29
                        I do not agree. As a rule, mobs, as they like to say, are protected here by people who are either ignorant or obvious provocateurs.
                        As for the "disciplinary window dressing" - and "in civilian life" the same garbage. How many organizations with double standards, imitation of violent activity and following the letter, but not the spirit of the "laws" ...
                        The army is a direct reflection of society. And we know what is going on in our society ... It is unlikely that people in the army will be better ...
                      3. 0
                        17 November 2022 20: 58
                        Yes, who would argue)). Moreover, I would say that in a sick society there cannot be healthy separate institutions... With all the sad conclusions...
                        But, in this case, there is some ... specificity, or something ..... The IDF is also fighting. is there such a thing? Both in form and content? I highly doubt.....
                        And as long as we are kicking (in accordance with the charter) all sorts of shells and pretending that everything is normal, in relation to polkans (and still higher)) - so it will be. ICHSH, in civilian life - too.
                  2. 0
                    17 November 2022 22: 38
                    "Without discipline, there is not a single army in the world, not in one country."
                    I don’t pretend to be the ultimate truth, but judging by the films of the same Americans, they don’t have much discipline in the army hi
    5. +13
      16 November 2022 15: 11
      ..mobilized just the edges and saw in all this what they were doing to them, and the colonel was the first to push him ..
      1. +1
        16 November 2022 17: 27
        Quote: Garri_
        ..mobilized just the edges and saw in all this what they were doing to them, and the colonel was the first to push him ..

        I used to sign the mastersport for a long time before the performance, and in civilian life it seems to have bullied left and right, and pushed the regiment after a jet of smoke in the face, which is always regarded as rudeness. But this of course does not cancel the flight with preparation.
    6. +4
      16 November 2022 15: 39
      Vladimir_2U (Vladimir). Today, 05:13. NEW - "... And one more addition - there is no single standard for minimum training, ... In short, now someone is good at anything - someone can, and someone does not shine with intelligence or imagination, and even scores on charters ... "

      Sorry you are right. belay
      My old prime is not the best...when in the distant Soviet called-up "partisan" drunk in shankels without epaulettes with bottles in his pockets met with the divisional commander wassat .. Conflict "expanded" system of work with mobile reserve и VERDICT. Like then, mate at best... request The example given by Khodakovsky is the use of weapons against the direct commander ...

      Now often spontaneously the emergence of organizations based on veteran databases for the preparation of those who wish, as from a "promising" mobile reserve, etc. - ORP. the medicine. engineering. There are free. There is an example of Chechnya (Kadyrov) training on the basis of their CENTER ... The final result is a truly state-owned2 approach. but alas. at the SUBJECT level
      But we need a massive state system aimed at working with the mobile reserve. with conscripts. CONSTANT and correction and taking into account "new" data of current "events"
      Assistant "butted" with the cadet classes. now LIKE there is. Нabout. trackers. MIA. firefighters. crying Ay. probably should be given from the beginning. what will form the PROTECTOR soldier . And then he CHOOSE where and how to PROTECT wink . And so, as if "profiling" ... lol
      Now it doesn't matter who. the main thing was FORCES and MEANS not only introduce for example CWP at school. But what will be in the NVP COURSE, How much will THIS be of practical USE ... in order to "form" not only knowledge and skills, "but also an understanding of the army and war. It's not a dispute when "oils or shoulder straps are cooler."
      R.S. Someone themselves. if there is anyone with whom he creates a similar "system". We are trying. but does not pass yet. no "...seed for implementation..." feel
      and here the "athletes" begin to teach non-sport hand-to-hand combat.[/i] [i]and tactics... belay The direction is correct. but to each his own и it’s bad if the pieman starts sharpening his boots. and the shoemaker bake pies .. While the "giraffe" THINKS.
      Something like that. hi
      1. +10
        16 November 2022 17: 11
        So the Soviet "partisans" went completely drunk only because these fees did not surrender to anyone. All the same shagistics and cleaning of the territory. Should the serving peasant with his family stand on the bedside table? Rave. Moreover, even while serving in the army, I didn’t hear anything at all about the defense of the Motherland and the teaching of military affairs in a real way. Someone drew such slogans on the walls. And they did whatever. The word "warrior" sounded only as an insult. All that I took out of the army was that no one needed me there. For life, a school, and so ... lost time. Because the military specialty was not taught. And then the 90s, and then, etc. What school? Who are the teachers? So our army is still to be shaken up and shaken up. Since the number of parasites and fools there is obviously higher than in civilian life.
    7. +17
      16 November 2022 16: 25
      Maybe because the mobs go to the cold trenches to sit under fire 777 and the officer in a warm three-ruble note to sleep under a blanket?
      1. -5
        16 November 2022 17: 32
        Quote: Clever man
        Maybe because the mobs go to the cold trenches to sit under fire 777 and the officer in a warm three-ruble note to sleep under a blanket?

        Well, for starters - "mobiki" is a so-so name, not too respectful. And in continuation - yamastersport seems to have bullied left and right in life, and before the performance he also bruised from the heart, very likely. But the stupidity of the polkan, or whoever he is, does not cancel.
        1. +9
          16 November 2022 18: 08
          They bruised from the heart, this is also a problem of the polkan, they did not organize the leisure of the fighters!
    8. -2
      16 November 2022 18: 01
      It looks like you beguiled the shores, you did the right thing that you hit a jackal, it was a jackal and not an officer, at one time out of 10 jackals 1,2 real officers we had a good time
      1. -4
        17 November 2022 03: 46
        Quote from: wervolf1981
        It looks like you beguiled the shores, you did the right thing that you hit a jackal, it was a jackal and not an officer, at one time out of 10 jackals 1,2 real officers we had a good time

        Campaign that yamastersport foolishly, but you consciously to the delight of khikhlam disperse the agenda.
        Although the flight in places does not cancel this.
        1. -1
          17 November 2022 14: 01
          It's you who accelerates, podpivkovich go to the front, ideological
          1. -2
            17 November 2022 16: 05
            Quote from: wervolf1981
            It's you who accelerates, podpivkovich go to the front, ideological

            About how, i.e. Are you for the lack of elementary discipline in the Russian Army? Himself something that you are not writing from a trench? Or is it dumb to harness live for Khikhlov?
      2. -1
        18 November 2022 16: 43
        what is surprising is the word jackal, which characterizes officers, is pronounced in the speeches of some marginal military personnel, whose service took place somewhere far from army reality. his conscripts would have killed him there. Shit if you talk like that about officers.
    9. +6
      16 November 2022 19: 16
      The mobilized before all this noticeably had their own civilian life, some, perhaps, were earning more than they would now be paid under the contract. Sitting warm. Close to families. No risk to feed the worms in the sprinkled trenches. And the phrase about "do not sit in one trench", in itself, abolishes subordination. With whom "in the trench", in relation to them, and observe subordination.
      1. -2
        17 November 2022 03: 48
        Quote: Turtle
        The mobilized before all this noticeably had their own civilian life, some, perhaps, were earning more than they would now be paid under the contract. Sitting warm. Close to families. No risk to feed the worms in the sprinkled trenches. And the phrase about "do not sit in one trench", in itself, abolishes subordination. With whom "in the trench", in relation to them, and observe subordination.

        Who argues, but this particular mastersport forgot out of his mind, because in the words of this polkan "don't sit in the same trench" it is very robust to untwist it is possible and it was necessary.
      2. -1
        18 November 2022 16: 48
        with an officer on whose action your cheerful and independent life in civilian life will depend. When the bullet whistles, you will pray for the officer as an icon of God's matter and you will observe the subordination like a pretty one, unless of course you are not a completely frostbitten idiot and want to see your family. At war it doesn't happen otherwise
    10. +1
      16 November 2022 20: 08
      And what about the "probable enemy"?
      Alvaro Prendez Quintana. Military pilot. Memories
      Excerpts from the book
      I didn't believe my eyes. I am in the United States, in the US Air Force, to become a jet pilot.
      Corporal Williamson was already waiting for us outside. We were worried - it was our first formation. Fat Williamson's voice was muffled and weak. It was rather the cry of a civilian trying to imitate the commanding voice of the military:
      - Attention!
      It immediately became clear that this type was one of the recruits, and, moreover, one of the bad ones ... He spoke poor English, did not know how to stand correctly on the command “Attention”. In broken English, Williamson continued:
      - Guys, you are now in the US Air Force. We know that you come from different countries, each of you has your own customs and habits. Here you must forget all this and quickly adapt to our conditions. The faster you do this, the sooner you will feel like real American cadets and the more successfully you will graduate from flight school. You should know that the best pilots in the world are trained here... I understand discipline is a difficult thing... But if you make an effort, you will achieve your goal.
      It was already too much! A simple martinet, without a military bearing, unable to give a command ... In addition, flat-footed (that's what we called him from the moment he appeared in the barracks).
      Williamson continued:
      - Guys! Now we will learn the most elementary techniques in drill so that you can walk at least a little like a military man.
      Suddenly, from the depths of the formation, from somewhere behind me, a mocking voice was heard. I immediately recognized it: it belonged to cadet Monson, the youngest in our group.
      - He is not a Cuban who does not leave the line! ...
      It was highly incorrect, even like disobedience. In my imagination, the possible consequences of this misconduct flashed with dizzying speed ...
      Anger seized me. This American recruit doesn't even know how to give commands! And there is no need to talk about the attitude towards us! One word - Flatfoot. This is complete disrespect for the Cuban group! So humiliate people!…
      We, all eight Cubans, indignant, went to the barracks.
      Early one morning, after getting up, an American came to us, who spoke Spanish well. Smiling broadly, he invited us to the office of Lieutenant Garrison, who was in charge of the PVVP group living in our barracks, at eight o'clock. We calmed down, smiles appeared on our faces. Finally, justice will prevail, we decided. Each of us from the very beginning believed that it would be so.
      For several minutes we stood at attention in front of the man sitting at the table, but we could not make out his face, because he, hiding from us with a magazine, read or pretended to be busy reading. Finally he put down his magazine and stood up. He began the conversation slowly, making long pauses. Not a single muscle moved in his face.
      - As I learned, yesterday the Cubans left the ranks without permission.
      The lieutenant patiently listened to each of us. We, with dignity, asked him to enter into our position. Not a single muscle twitched in his face, and it was impossible to guess what he was thinking.
      - I understand. The discipline is tough here, and you're not used to it. But you must learn to be real soldiers in order to become officers in the future .. - There is one thing for you, follow me!
      “This is a real officer,” I thought, barely hiding my joy. We finally got justice! It couldn't be otherwise. Like in American movies that always end well. Many paths open before the hero, he will always be appreciated with justice and dignity ... Such is Lieutenant Harrison. He perfectly understood that we, having a sense of our own dignity, could not allow such bullying against us ... "
      ... The untouched whiteness of the walls of the room seemed transparent ... We saw a toilet bowl in which water was seething ... It was a toilet room at the office of Lieutenant Harrison. Nodding in the direction of the toilet, the lieutenant said without embarrassment:
      There are ten such toilets in this building. There are dirtier ones... I'll give you two hours. Put everything in order.
      1. +1
        17 November 2022 03: 44
        Quote: futurohunter
        Alvaro Prendez Quintana. Military pilot. Memories

        Cool book. True, the 50s are mainly described there, specifically this scene before the Cuban Revolution
        1. -1
          17 November 2022 09: 32
          Yes. Young officers, future Batista Air Force pilots, are sent to flight courses in the United States. And then they begin to show their arrogance and download rights ... The response of the officers is the same in all armies ...
          I quoted it because the situation is similar, but the army is different. However, the approaches of the officers are no different.
    11. -1
      17 November 2022 20: 56
      Quote: Vladimir_2U
      there is no single standard for minimum training,

      There are standards - a firing course, a combat charter, and so on. Another thing is that these standards are simplified to the point of disgrace to guarantee high marks.
      Quote: Vladimir_2U
      mobilized should be allowed to shoot once every two weeks,

      Here ours went to the other extreme: the media are clamoring that a mobilized person is now being given 600 rounds of ammunition for a training course. Wow, is the issue resolved?
      NO. Simply increasing the number of ammo is NOT enough to teach you how to shoot. To teach you to shoot you have to... learn to shoot. Must be taught:
      1) Basics of ballistics. At least within the framework of a direct shot. Otherwise, nothing will hit.
      2) Choose a permanent setting for a direct shot on the sight with which you will fight.
      3) Bring the weapon with this sight to the correct normal combat.
      4) Choose the aiming point. At least with a direct shot.
      5) Only now he can be allowed to 1UNS and spend as many rounds there as this particular fighter needs in order to learn how to shoot accurately and accurately, first at a distance of 100m. To do this, after each series of shots, you need to bring him to the target and analyze where and how he hit, why not there and not enough heap, etc.
      6) Then you need to check that he understood the aiming point for the entire range of a direct shot. To do this, I developed a completely new 2UPS with targets that we did not have before. The trainee must perform 2UPS as many times as he needs in order to accurately aim with an automatic weapon at any range within a direct shot.
      7) Now it can be allowed to 4UPS - a real set of targets in battle, including the head target No. 5 (the same enemy shooter behind the parapet with the forearm of the weapon resting on the parapet). And do this exercise so many times until you get at least "good" three times in a row.
      8) Only now the trainee understood something and it makes sense to give them zinc cartridges for the combat trio and let them train intensive combat work on the continuous execution of the same 4UPS in a circle.
      THE COURSE OF SUCH SHOOTING IS HERE - http://svateev-va.rf/yps.html Moreover, these are PREPARATORY firing exercises, which, according to paragraph 7 of the firing course of the Ministry of Defense, any military unit and even a subunit can independently use. There would be a smart commander.
      In the meantime, the news showed chest targets at a distance of 100m and a dull burning of zinc cartridges without even trying to look where they hit. Follow the instructions to use up 600 rounds.
  2. +31
    16 November 2022 05: 15
    A daring but fair soldier - an extraordinary rank and head of this training center.
    Colonel - in the same place to prepare for the front line (not a colonel).
    The judge of the Odintsovo military court - to be shot in front of the ranks!
    1. +13
      16 November 2022 09: 47
      Why immediately shoot the judge? Mobilize to conduct training at the drill level and send closer to the LBS along with the demoted lieutenant! wassat
      1. +12
        16 November 2022 13: 29
        I was not joking at all about the "wrecking judge". In the current situation, he is an enemy deserving immediate and most severe punishment.
        If the Soldier and the Colonel in the situation we are discussing had an emotional component. Then the judge had enough time and conditions to make a wise and fair decision.
        In fact, the minister of military justice only aggravated everything at times. Consciously acting in the interests of the enemies of Russia.
        The soldier turned out to be much more than a soldier. Colonel - was not a colonel at all.
        And the Judge is a provocateur and a pest.
        1. +4
          16 November 2022 15: 56
          Well, in my joke there is only a fraction of a joke, after all, it is necessary to use human potential more effectively in extreme conditions of warfare. If the parties to the conflict cannot reach an agreement, and the judge does not encourage this, but rather supports an incompetent officer, and the state deprives a soldier, then it would not hurt the judge to lead the judge through the path that the convict began to walk in order to make up for the loss of personnel, yes and prove that both the officer and the judge are all
          they were right both with the method of preparation and with the decision to condemn the obstinate mobilizant.
          1. +1
            16 November 2022 19: 31
            Convinced. In wartime, your option is preferable good
    2. +9
      16 November 2022 16: 26
      The colonel in the assault group to the Wagnerites, they will look after him there
      1. -1
        16 November 2022 17: 14
        We need him on the parade ground. And let him march there, train to salute. A very useful occupation in the army. I would train. With special pleasure.
      2. 0
        17 November 2022 11: 18
        And if something is wrong, then with a sledgehammer on the head?
        1. 0
          17 November 2022 13: 05
          With a sledgehammer on the head, they already went too far
      3. 0
        25 November 2022 13: 37
        Do you want the group to rebel?
        Who needs this!?
        1. 0
          25 November 2022 14: 19
          Hang with grenades and it will fit for a pillbox for once
    3. -5
      16 November 2022 18: 18
      Chervony Biker
      To a daring soldier

      Red Biker - anonymously shoot for ignorance! am
      ... and for service in TsIPSO - gave a nickname
      1. +5
        16 November 2022 19: 53
        You see from the "military justice". Then the question is for you. And who and how were punished from the beginning of the war from the responsible "comrades"?
        For peppy reports to the top, stating that "everything is fine.
        For something that was not available and in abundance, while it should have been?
        How many frank idiots in uniform suffered not formal, but real punishment?
        Most likely, you will have nothing to answer. Judge-saboteur, translated the confrontation into the category of soldier vs officer. Although in this situation, at least it was necessary to understand the reasons for the discontent of the mobilized.
        1. 0
          16 November 2022 22: 01
          I just served in the army. Below I have quoted fragments from the disciplinary charter of the armed forces of the Russian Federation. There are answers to your questions. And representatives of military justice do not go to this site
        2. +4
          17 November 2022 13: 06
          With the most cheerful speaker, the Supreme goes to the taiga to rest
  3. +36
    16 November 2022 05: 21
    Leshkov was in vain, he touched the polkan with his hands ... to mother is one thing, but to touch is an article.
    1. +20
      16 November 2022 07: 49
      Here I touched, I didn’t touch the second question, but in the first place I was right, then the mobilized was completely right.
      But the colonel is either wise or transferred or from the army to his mother is not good (he dishonored the rank with such behavior) I can imagine how someone would start to swing the rights of my company commander like that and what would happen to him right on the spot.
      1. +15
        16 November 2022 13: 13
        Quote: saigon
        But the colonel is either wise or transferred or from the army to his mother is not good (he dishonored the title with such behavior

        Why not on the front lines? Shooter. And the stars can be reduced.
      2. 0
        16 November 2022 13: 31
        I remember the "partisans" of the Soviet Army. Nothing was different.
    2. +34
      16 November 2022 08: 28
      Quote: Aerodrome
      Leshkov was in vain, he touched the polkan with his hands ... to mother is one thing, but to touch is an article.

      Yes, you can't let go! However, the colonel was the first to push the soldier away! Or is it possible for him, but not for a soldier? Any cases of assault must be investigated and for assault must be asked from officers, and even more so from senior officers much stricter than from the lower ranks. For "to whom much is given, more will be asked." And in our country, in any field, from those to whom much has been given, the least is asked.
    3. +5
      16 November 2022 08: 54
      The Odintsovo garrison military court took into custody the mobilized serviceman Alexander Leshkov until January 14, 2023. Leshkov is suspected of inflicting beatings on the chief, committed during the performance of his duties of military service or in connection with the performance of these duties, during the period of mobilization (part 3 of article 334 of the Criminal Code of the Russian Federation) and of insulting the subordinate of the chief (part 2 of article 336 Criminal Code of the Russian Federation). He faces up to 15 years in prison.
      1. +42
        16 November 2022 09: 38
        What other beatings?
        Did the judge even watch the video? He pushed the "colonel", and in response.
        Formalism will bring our enemy army to Moscow.
        The fighter must be punished. Disciplinary. Three days of arrest is enough.
        And the colonel, well, obviously not the Commander, it’s not for him to communicate with subordinates, to transfer them over the Ural Mountains, he stayed too long in Moscow, and let him pay the mortgage there.
        1. +31
          16 November 2022 10: 33
          The devil pulled me to turn on the TV .. and hit Solovyov! So this one .... I don’t even know how to say it, he squealed that they were publicly mobilized to shoot, almost a hectare of Red Square angry but about the "jackal" ... sorry gentlemen officers hi didn’t say a word ..... How they bypass the cause and fight the effect
          1. +29
            16 November 2022 11: 21
            Solovyov sings like a nightingale, as in that fable the cuckoo praises the rooster, because he praises the cuckoo. The fact that the man did not allow himself to be treated like cattle-YES, HOW DARE HE!!!?? And the fact that they are thrown like meat without preparation is not touched by pro-government balabols, it’s not they who will be sent to slaughter. And our stupid and dumbfounded "authority" will stand up like a mountain for such polkans, because it is like that. And it’s a pity for the peasant, he will be punished in a revealing way, so that others are afraid and silent, silent and afraid. Only such sub-stars will definitely bring the country to a rebellion.
            1. +1
              17 November 2022 08: 02
              Quote: Khibiny Plastun
              And the fact that they are thrown like meat without preparation is not touched by pro-government balabols, it’s not they who will be sent to slaughter.

              It is not in vain that they say - History is the science of the future. With such "skillful" leadership and command, the turn can easily reach them ... It has already happened. And by historical standards, quite recently ...
          2. +24
            16 November 2022 11: 24
            Quote: Popuas
            The devil pulled me to turn on the TV .. and hit Solovyov! So this one .... I don’t even know how to say it, he squealed that they were publicly mobilized to shoot, almost a hectare of Red Square angry but about the "jackal" ... sorry gentlemen officers hi didn’t say a word ..... How they bypass the cause and fight the effect

            This bird all summer watered droppings of everyone who spoke about the need for mobilization. As a result, we received Balakleya, Izyum and Kherson. In fact, what he did is called wrecking, nothing else. The cage misses this bird.
            PS Reminds me of the events back in August. In Donetsk, they decided to bury with honors a woman, a hero of the DPR, unfortunately I don’t remember her name. Solovyov & Co. for two days they squealed through all their channels how cool and solemn it would be, well, at the same time where and when it would be. In fact, they teased this ukrov. Everything ended quite predictably, the Ukrainians knew when and where to hit, which they did. The result of the shelling and the dead. Do you think at least someone from the Nightingale pack felt guilty for what happened? Fuck it, not a word.
            1. The comment was deleted.
            2. +6
              16 November 2022 16: 04
              Quote: Beringovsky
              This bird all summer watered droppings of everyone who spoke about the need for mobilization.

              Like the whole brotherhood of Zaputin's guards here. It's funny to watch their efforts today.
              1. -2
                17 November 2022 17: 34
                "To be a musician, so must the skill
                And your ears more gentle, -
                The Nightingale answers them, -
                And you, friends, no matter how you sit down,
                All are not good musicians "

                - Why are you guys still shooting?!⁠⁠ (C)
                how is "business", Igor?
                1. +2
                  17 November 2022 18: 36
                  You have a business, in troll farms, but I am for the idea. It's called homeland.
                  1. -3
                    17 November 2022 18: 54
                    Yes, yes, for the Motherland.
                    And the Motherland for you is where the fifth point is warm.
                    I sold my homeland ... (C) in order to hang out beautifully on VO lol
                    1. +1
                      17 November 2022 20: 19
                      Quote: Olga
                      And the Motherland for you is where the fifth point is warm.

                      You shouldn't judge everyone by yourself. You will soon have to look for a real job, and not mess around in the troll farms. For at such a pace the revolution will be earlier, "grateful" people will reward the authorities according to their deserts.
                      1. -1
                        17 November 2022 21: 57
                        Quote: Ingvar 72
                        For at such a pace the revolution will be earlier, "grateful" people will reward the authorities according to their deserts.

                        Ahh, so that's what you're hoping for.
                        Actually, I understand the motives of you like.
                        Now, you yourself have confirmed this.
                        Life dissatisfaction and lack of self-realization (judging by your story in the comments), as well as the habit of blaming everyone for your failures - that's what drives people like you, and not love for the Motherland at all.
                        You, apparently, are still in short pants when, stammering and falling, they blame the uneven floor.

                        Are you sure that YOU will shoot?
                        And also curious, assuming the thought of a coup, are you going to go out with a weapon in your hands or will you continue to whine to "help"?

                        Or do you see yourself on a philosophical boat? (here you can laugh).

                        Don't worry about my work. I work in the real sector, and not in the sector of demagogues, windbags, populists. Or do you expect portfolios in "your new government" to be distributed in accordance with the rating and the number of comments on VO? Yes, the best commentator?! laughing laughing
                      2. +2
                        18 November 2022 04: 38
                        Quote: Olga
                        Now, you yourself have confirmed this.
                        Life dissatisfaction and lack of self-realization (judging by your story in the comments), as well as the habit of blaming everyone for your failures - that's what drives people like you, and not love for the Motherland at all.
                        What nonsense are you spouting? belay The psychologist of you is useless, like the troll too. wink
                      3. -1
                        18 November 2022 07: 29
                        You don't have to be a big psychologist here.
                        In general, our "fighter against the regime" has come to light.
                        You reminded me of someone ... who not so long ago smashed his country and seized power ... "fun" now they have.

                        Here, only you do not pull on the rootless Arakhamy or secretary Danilov. At best, another Mykola Sotnik will turn out
                      4. +1
                        18 November 2022 12: 36
                        And then Olga suffered ..... laughing Your templates are out of date! wink
                      5. -1
                        18 November 2022 13: 07
                        it's called - Ingvar Seventy-Second opened ahead of time laughing
                        You will soon have to look for a real job, and not mess around in the troll farms. For at such a pace the revolution will be earlier, "grateful" people will reward the authorities according to their deserts.

                        Emotions could not be contained or is it from nature?

                        Now typical phrases will not save Ingvar bully
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              1. The comment was deleted.
          3. +1
            16 November 2022 14: 15
            Do not watch our TV, especially the "nasty dwarf".
        2. +15
          16 November 2022 10: 48
          Why is he behind the Urals? Let him go to the watchman! Deserved!
        3. +8
          16 November 2022 13: 21
          Quote: kit88
          What other beatings?

          beating is the commission of violent acts against a person that cause him physical pain, but do not entail a slight permanent loss of general ability to work or a short-term health disorder. Formally they were. But the resolution of the situation is bad. It remains to be hoped that the investigation and judicial review will try to correct it. If wisdom is shown. I hope the fighter does not get a real term.
          1. +4
            16 November 2022 16: 22
            It will be very strange if it does not. Which makes sense, even though it's wrong. As well as it is logical, although wrong, that nothing will happen to the colonel. In the best case, they will suffocate somewhere out of sight ....
          2. +9
            16 November 2022 23: 25
            Quote: victor50
            beatings -... Formally, there were.

            Hey, leave it.
            Part 3 Art. 334 is just far-fetched. It can be up to 15 years for her. According to another sane person (part 2 of article 336 of the Criminal Code of the Russian Federation), there is a year of arbitrage or restriction in service for the same year. Disbat most likely does not threaten, because the fighter seems to have served urgently, and he does not care about the restriction on service from the Ostankino tower. Therefore, they are pulling the rabbit ears 334 with its 15th anniversary.
            But beatings are necessarily the "pain of the victim" (Supervisory Determination of the Supreme Court of the Russian Federation of June 24, 2008).
            Was there pain?
            Did not have. Part 3 will fly off. 334, any lawyer will say that.
            So if they don’t press very hard from above, then only part 2 of Art. 336 with its limitation in service for up to one year. That is NOTHING.
            True, there will be a criminal record, and he will sit in a pre-trial detention center for a little (nothing, he won’t break - this is the actual punishment).
            A conviction in a year will be removed in accordance with Art. 86 of the Criminal Code of the Russian Federation.
            hi
            1. +1
              17 November 2022 08: 59
              Quote: kit88
              Was there pain?
              Did not have. Part 3 will fly off. 334, any lawyer will say that.

              I would like to agree with you, but I know for sure a situation where a person was convicted under this article for moving the video camera of an intelligence officer with his hand. True, he hurt his hand. The employee assured that he was wildly hurt. Alas. Previously, if memory serves, beatings were considered "multiple blows ..."
            2. 0
              17 November 2022 22: 49
              But how impressive - up to 15 years hi "" ""
        4. The comment was deleted.
      2. 0
        16 November 2022 12: 02
        How else !
        .........................
    4. +17
      16 November 2022 11: 50
      Quote: Aerodrome
      Leshkov was in vain, he touched the polkan with his hands ... to mother is one thing, but to touch is an article.

      The lieutenant colonel dismissed the first hands, provoking retaliatory actions. Even the generals talk obscenities in the army, not everything is true. Once again I warn the commanders of the "mobiks", be able to listen to the soldiers, the men are 40-50 years old, their sons are over 20 years old, so your stars are purple to them, the bazaar will not be able to arouse respect. Therefore, the proletarian fist flies in subordination, and given that more than 50% of the population have a criminal record, they can cripple or shoot (accidentally) What are officers taught in schools? Is it correct to wear papakhas? It is necessary to be able to do this - to bring the soldier so that he enters in the officer's muzzle. A fighter to the musicians, and a lieutenant colonel to retire or to the reserve, as an officer who has discredited the rank. hi
      1. +3
        17 November 2022 12: 46
        Quote: fif21
        and given that more than 50% of our population have a criminal record

        However, nonsense.
        1. 0
          17 November 2022 13: 23
          Quote: Lesovik
          Quote: fif21
          and given that more than 50% of our population have a criminal record

          However, nonsense.

          However, statistics. From 1961 to 1991, 40 million people were convicted. From 1992 to 2007, 15 million people were convicted. No data was found from 2007 to 2021. In total, men in the Russian Federation for 2021 are 67 million people. That is, 7% is 50 million people. So the data given by me, if they have an error, then a small one. hi
          1. +3
            17 November 2022 13: 55
            Quote: fif21
            However, statistics. From 1961 to 1991, 40 million people were convicted.

            What fraction of these 40 mil. stayed abroad? Or did they not survive to the present day?
            Quote: fif21
            Total men in the Russian Federation for 2021 67 million people

            Those. did you not count women for people in the last comment about "50% of the population"?

            Quote: fif21
            So the data I have given, if they have an error, then a small one

            The statistics are silent about how many Russians have a criminal record, so Vlast conducted its own calculation ... Thus, 18,2% of the population have a criminal record: almost every second adult man or almost every sixth Russian
            So - yes, if we accept that in your post about 50% of the population, you meant exclusively adult men, then the error is really small.
            Quite a normal psychological technique - he didn’t seem to lie, but he put it this way that ...
            Consider it a typo.)
      2. -2
        18 November 2022 01: 06
        Convicts are not subject to conscription. It is dangerous to give such weapons. Especially if the conviction was for a violent crime.
    5. +6
      16 November 2022 14: 13
      Good thing I didn't throw a plastic cup at him...
  4. +34
    16 November 2022 05: 28
    To be honest, even in my years, I would love to learn how to fight from a combat officer who knows how to survive in a modern war as a soldier.
    When the Kadyrovites at the beginning of the SVO, in full gear and packed to the very best, poked themselves into the clash zone without heavy equipment. Thank God, a competent officer from the locals was found ... stopped them in time and enlightened them what to do and what not to do ... now they are fighting well .
    So the author is right ... a thousand times right ... a competent commander, such as, for example, paratrooper Margelov, does not regret training a soldier, giving him the necessary skills and training to survive and complete a combat mission.
    When you come back from the exercises exhausted and completely exhausted, there is no time to waste precious time on all sorts of stupid things like bickering and quarrels with the commander.
    There would only be to eat and sleep from the heart if possible. smile
    1. +8
      16 November 2022 10: 56
      "Hard in teaching - easy in battle" Suvorov A.V.
    2. The comment was deleted.
    3. +2
      17 November 2022 04: 10
      In any war you are a beginner. Time to get used to. Aezde war is different. But the Kadyrovites know how to shoot, they know how to move, they know how to do something else. These are not people who beat off a step on the parade ground and cleaned up the territory, and then came to fight.
    4. 0
      17 November 2022 11: 29
      Quote: Lech from Android.
      now they are fighting well.

      Lyokha, tell us where they fight well.
  5. +42
    16 November 2022 05: 33
    The war, as it always was, opened up all the previously disguised shit that needs to be raked. But we need to follow the fate of Alexander Leshakov. Because the letter and the spirit of the law are two different things. Sometimes it happens that a person must be judged according to the law, and rewarded according to justice. Sometimes, and vice versa, a person is all white and fluffy, but in fact - a rope is crying over him. That is why the fate of the defendant is decided by judges - people, not a computer that counts the number of articles of the Criminal Code, terms and coefficients. As one of the Russian emperors said, "Justice is above the law."
    1. +11
      16 November 2022 11: 45
      With the current judicial corps, corrupt and shameless, it would be better if a soulless computer decided the fate. The efficiency would be much higher.
    2. 0
      17 November 2022 00: 31
      Popenko
      The war, as it always was, opened up all the previously disguised shit that needs to be raked. But we need to follow the fate of Alexander Leshakov

      This psychopath is rightfully punished. And it should be widely publicized. Like some ugly facts in combat training
      1. 0
        17 November 2022 14: 59
        no, it’s not fair .. It was already described above that either 335 or 336 of the Criminal Code of the Russian Federation should be applied .. and 334 of the Criminal Code is indicative, but unfair .. beatings are clearly not seen there .. but to the colonel, for not teaching like that so that people are at least a little ready to survive .. some questions need to be asked .. he is in fact responsible for their lives ...
        1. 0
          17 November 2022 15: 52
          The injustice lies in the fact that he was tried by a civil court in criminal cases, but should have been tried by a military tribunal, as a military man. Now they will send him to the zone, otherwise they could re-educate him in the guardhouse, and convey what military discipline is. However, "the kid himself went to success" - he is no stranger to it, this is not the first trial for him. I think the court took into account his previous "merits"
          1. +2
            17 November 2022 17: 15
            Quote: futurohunter
            The injustice lies in the fact that he was tried by a civil court in criminal cases, but he was supposed to be tried by a military tribunal, as a military man.

            You're wrong,
            Odintsovo garrison military the court took into custody the mobilized serviceman Alexander Leshkov until January 14, 2023.
            I agree about the lips..
            Quote: futurohunter
            However, "the kid himself went to success" - he is no stranger to it, this is not the first trial for him. I think the court took into account his previous "merits"

            so you can’t promise, anyone can get in .. but he still came to defend his homeland one way or another .. and with a clear risk to his life, and not a conscript - just for service and not in Georgia .. but there would be normal training- would be the situation? Of course, it’s impossible not to punish, but it wouldn’t hurt to consider the reason too ..
            1. +1
              17 November 2022 20: 35
              2 Level Advisor
              Regarding the court - did not delve into.

              but he still came to defend his homeland one way or another
              As far as I understand, he did not come himself? Unwillingly?
              In fact, there is a huge question for the medical board and the preliminary check of the "contingent". With such a burden, you can’t take a person out of court cases!
              And military psychologists / psychiatrists should have kicked him out of the military enlistment office. An obvious psychopath. Such a one can shoot at his own, if he doesn’t like something.
              Here are your reasons...
              1. +1
                17 November 2022 21: 00
                Must. And before that, they should too. And how often are they kicked out?
  6. +8
    16 November 2022 05: 45
    I would recommend that the mobilized, if they are not given any training, just pack their things and move home .. war has not yet been declared - they will not be sent to prison .. but they are guaranteed to remain alive ... the guys from Ukraine are returning, the mobilized write. . the general impression is complete darkness with preparations and, in general, with the conduct of hostilities .. I won’t write details, otherwise they’ll put them in a panama hat, but it seems that our prospects are very, to put it mildly, sad ... one hope is that ukrov can be even worse...
    1. +11
      16 November 2022 07: 13
      They can also be imprisoned for desertion.
      1. The comment was deleted.
    2. -27
      16 November 2022 07: 36
      Quote: Krilion
      I would recommend that the mobilized, if they are not given any training, just pack their things and move home .. war has not yet been declared - they will not be sent to prison .. but they are guaranteed to remain alive ... the guys from Ukraine are returning, the mobilized write. . the general impression is complete darkness with preparations and, in general, with the conduct of hostilities .. I won’t write details, otherwise they’ll put them in a panama hat, but it seems that our prospects are very, to put it mildly, sad ... one hope is that ukrov can be even worse...

      A work colleague in Moscow has a friend in a hospital. He was near Kherson. There was only one machine gun for three, they sat under fire and drones, it was impossible to raise their heads.
      1. +1
        16 November 2022 12: 04
        Yes, what kind of machine is there, they were given cuttings from shovels! wink laughing
      2. -1
        16 November 2022 12: 05
        since he didn’t have a machine gun, then he was not supposed to do anything)))))))))) and who divided him to his underpants? what a joke
        1. +1
          17 November 2022 11: 31
          Nastya, are you beautiful?
          1. 0
            17 November 2022 11: 47
            and what are you interested in?
            1. +1
              17 November 2022 13: 08
              Quote: Nastia Makarova
              and what are you interested in?

              So I want to get to know you.
              1. 0
                17 November 2022 13: 10
                I live in Sochi....................................
              2. 0
                17 November 2022 21: 37
                Quote: Mordvin 3
                So I want to get to know you.

                You will not regret? lol
                1. +1
                  17 November 2022 21: 46
                  Quote: Svateev
                  Quote: Mordvin 3
                  So I want to get to know you.

                  You will not regret? lol

                  And the devil knows ... I myself have a crooked face, one nose back and forth turned back more than once. And I can drink a liter.
    3. +6
      16 November 2022 10: 15
      Quote: Krilion
      I would recommend to the mobilized, if they are not being given any training sessions, just pack their things and move home .. no war has been declared yet - will not go to jail belay ..

      part 1 and 2 art. 338 of the Criminal Code of the Russian Federation have always been - so they would have been imprisoned earlier ...

      Criminal Code Article 338. Desertion
      1. Desertion, that is, unauthorized abandonment of a unit or place of service in order to evade military service, as well as failure to appear for the same purposes in the service -
      shall be punishable by deprivation of liberty for a term up to seven years old.
      2. Desertion with a weapon entrusted to the service, as well as desertion committed by a group of persons by prior agreement or by an organized group, -
      is punished by imprisonment for the term up to ten years.
      (in the edition of the Federal Law from 07.03.2011 N 26-FZ)
      3. The deeds provided for by the first or second part of this Article, committed during the period of mobilization or martial law, in wartime or in the conditions of an armed conflict or combat operations, -
      shall be punished with imprisonment for the term of five to fifteen years old.
      (Part 3 was introduced by Federal Law No. 24.09.2022-FZ of September 365, XNUMX)"
      1. +4
        16 November 2022 10: 38
        War has not been declared! What a strange SVO! Mobilization is partial, we compare it with self-isolation ... The law on martial law and mobilization ... where the word "partial" is not at all ...
        1. +7
          16 November 2022 10: 52
          However - part 1 Art. 388 has not been canceled. Therefore recommend
          Quote: Krilion
          mobilized, if they do not conduct any training sessions, just pack up and move home..
          - this knowingly push them to jail....
          1. +4
            16 November 2022 11: 28
            Quote: your1970
            However - part 1 Art. 388 has not been canceled. Therefore recommend
            Quote: Krilion
            mobilized, if they do not conduct any training sessions, just pack up and move home..
            - this knowingly push them to jail....

            Exactly ... no one canceled the oath.
            1. The comment was deleted.
              1. +2
                17 November 2022 09: 20
                Quote: Konstantin Cherny
                means not to take an oath, and not to sign any papers

                That's right, Upper Lar, yours is waiting.
              2. +1
                17 November 2022 17: 27
                Quote: Konstantin Cherny
                means no swearing

                what belay lol
                You probably have them conscripts confused? not?
                Actually they are calling SERVED in the army, they ALREADY swore allegiance when they served - from 1997 to yesterday ...
                Quote: Konstantin Cherny
                and don't sign any papers
                - this is when you don’t want to take a loan - you don’t need to sign anything, yeah ...
                and in this situation, the Criminal Code of the Russian Federation, in general, will work without your signature
          2. +7
            16 November 2022 12: 02
            I'll start with a little note. I have neighbors of retirement age who constantly voted for Putin and United Russia, so "correct" to themselves. Well, I myself heard how at the beginning of mobilization, when they themselves could be touched, that they were yelling when they gathered on the street, in front of the house. And they yelled that the fuck is such a power and we all need to get together and go arrange a booze. Why am I? But I just want to explain something to those who are still in that tank, which is a monument. When only a few steps remain soldiers' committees и councils of people's deputies, you don’t need to remember the article numbers, but turn on your head and common sense. Until it's not too late.
            1. -6
              16 November 2022 13: 19
              Quote: Beringovsky
              neighbors of retirement age

              Quote: Beringovsky
              when they themselves could be touched,

              And when did we start pensioners mobilize? belay
              belay belay belay

              Quote: Beringovsky
              When there are a couple of steps left to the soldiers' committees and councils of people's deputies, it is necessary not to remember the numbers of the articles, but to turn on the head and common sense. Until it's not too late.

              Common sense says that in the units of Kornilov in the WWI and in the units of the Red Army in the Second World War, persons who contradicted the commanders, and even more so who raised their hand against them, were subject to court-martial. In WWI they were hanged, in WWII they were shot ...
              Absolutely different states - but the approach is the same.
              And it was precisely the connivance of such cases in WWI that led the army to collapse ..
              And yes - I don’t doubt for a second that Leshkov in the Second World War would have already stepped into the penal battalion. Everything is in the memoirs ..

              Z.Y.
              Which of our commanders of the Second World War beat officers with a stick?
              1. +8
                16 November 2022 17: 22
                Eremenko. But officers. Not a soldier. Here the soldier answered - he is 15 years old. A mrazota in uniform can do whatever he wants. And nothing will happen to him. This is how the 17th year happened ... Now, because of this rag, a person is facing a deadline. And this one will retire quietly. Do you know what their pensions are? Civilians did not dream. Well, it would be Kornilov. So, it's 0.
                After all, the question was not about drinking, layoffs and other benefits. As for military training. What is this? Should soldiers demand training from their commanders? Everything is upside down. Why do I dislike our officer corps. For the most part, they are ebullient bums.
                1. -1
                  17 November 2022 17: 45
                  Quote: mmaxx
                  Eremenko. But officers. Not a soldier.
                  -that is officers senior in rank can with a stick (and he beat him with a stick!) beat? all the rules?

                  Quote: mmaxx
                  Do you know what their pensions are? Civilians did not dream.

                  Yes? I have a mother-in-law - a collective farmer receives 23 and a father-in-law, a tractor driver, 800.
                  And put next to them underground - tanker -
                  who has 200 horses under his command lol with eggs + tanks + the entire household + another demonic cloud of duties
                  "Let's imagine a brave commander of a tank battalion, who gave the army a quarter of a century and rose to the rank of lieutenant colonel. What can he count on?
                  We add 27 rubles (salary for a military position) with 809 rubles (salary for a military rank), it turns out 13. Now let's add 905% of it to this amount (for 41 years of service). We get 714 rubles 40 kopecks.
                  Our lieutenant colonel has the right to use 65% of this amount - it's all about the same length of service. That is, 37 rubles 959 kopecks.
                  And the last action is to take into account the 2022 reduction factor of 74%. Total - 28 090 rubles 20 kopecks.
                  https://www.kp.ru/putevoditel/lichnye-finansy/pensiya-voennosluzhashhikh/

                  23800 is not equal to 28090 - but I wouldn’t say that it’s straight, oh, what a wild difference so that it’s straight and “not dreaming”
                  1. +1
                    17 November 2022 18: 05
                    Are you talking about pension or salary? What kind of lamentation is Yaroslavna? Are our undergrounds so offended? And I don’t see what to pay him for this video at all. Any master at the factory decides and does more. Because he knows that it’s worth sending someone for nothing, it won’t seem enough.
                    Here's what's interesting. Sergeants are selected primarily for authority. Can a person FORCE others to obey or not. Responsibility is one's own face. And the officers are all automatic. More stars - boss. Less - .
                    1. -2
                      17 November 2022 19: 16
                      Quote: mmaxx
                      You about retirement or ZP? What kind of lamentation is Yaroslavl?

                      Mmmm ... and you already forgot your cries about
                      Quote: mmaxx
                      Do you know what they have pensions? Civilians did not dream.
                      ??????? !!!!
                      1. 0
                        18 November 2022 05: 33
                        Well, if there is not enough military pension, then ask what civilians receive.
                      2. -2
                        18 November 2022 10: 19
                        Quote: mmaxx
                        Well, if there is not enough military pension, then ask what civilians receive.

                        did not try to read the opponent? I gave you a real example of the pensions of ordinary hard workers
                        Quote: your1970
                        Yes? I have a mother-in-law - a collective farmer receives 23 and a father-in-law, a tractor driver, 800.
                  2. +1
                    17 November 2022 22: 58
                    And "let a report on the team submit about the pension." As they told me there, "Well, you knew where you were going?" and "no one is keeping you here." And the comrade "lieutenant colonel of the tank troops" needs to present claims to himself regarding the pension, since for whom did he always vote in unison?
              2. The comment was deleted.
              3. The comment was deleted.
              4. +6
                16 November 2022 18: 44
                Yes, the approaches are similar, the result is different. Do you know why? And because the states absolutely different, as you rightly pointed out. How did it all end in WWI? So that. But the Russian Federation, well, is absolutely not like the USSR, but it’s completely like the Republic of Ingushetia. Conclusions? And yet, do not confuse cause with effect, it was the stupidity, inertia and slowness of power that ruined the army. And there is no need to talk about connivance, they hung willingly and without sentimentality, just the moment came when the arms of the hangers became short. And without the gallows, somehow it was no longer possible to convince the soldiers ...
                PS. The joke about pensioners is not very smart. Pensioners generally have sons and grandchildren.
                1. -3
                  16 November 2022 21: 05
                  Quote: Beringovsky
                  The joke about pensioners is not very smart. Pensioners generally have sons and grandchildren.

                  Literally, you wrote about the "mobilization of pensioners" - you would write about your grandchildren - there would be no questions ...


                  Quote: Beringovsky
                  the army was ruined precisely by the stupidity, inertia and sluggishness of the authorities

                  And the stupidity and inertia of the authorities also ruined the army of the USSR?!
                  White officers shot at Civilian to avoid the shame of betraying the oath. In the Second World War, commanders shot from the shame of captivity and betraying the oath.
                  And in 1991 everyone made their muzzles brick - "What kind of oath is that? There was no order from Moscow!"
                  In 1917, the reasons were the collapse - the war, in 1991 - everyone (!!!) simply did not give a damn about the country.
                  1. 0
                    17 November 2022 11: 35
                    Quote: your1970
                    in 1991 - everyone (!!!) simply did not give a damn about the country.

                    Not all, don't...
                    1. -1
                      17 November 2022 17: 20
                      in the USSR there were 3683 generals and marshals in the army ...
                      Can you name at least a dozen - who shot themselves from the shame of betraying the oath?
                      in the USSR there were 20 thousand colonels and lieutenant colonels in the army.
                      Can you name at least a dozen who shot themselves from the shame of betraying the oath?
                      1. 0
                        17 November 2022 19: 25
                        Quote: your1970
                        Can you name at least a dozen who shot themselves from the shame of betraying the oath?

                        Marshal Akhromeev.
                      2. +1
                        17 November 2022 19: 41
                        Quote: mordvin xnumx
                        Quote: your1970
                        Can you name at least a dozen who shot themselves from the shame of betraying the oath?

                        Marshal Akhromeev.

                        Even 10
                        Quote: your1970
                        at least a dozen
                        generals = 0.2% of the total...
                        And the ratio 1/3683 - Well, so-so...
                        Statistical error....
                        3682 remained to live on and, apparently, with a clear conscience
                      3. 0
                        17 November 2022 19: 49
                        Quote: your1970
                        generals = 0.2%

                        Are you alternately not enough? Kruchina, Pavlov, Lisovolik, Pugo...
                      4. 0
                        17 November 2022 20: 51
                        Quote: mordvin xnumx
                        Quote: your1970
                        generals = 0.2%

                        Are you alternately not enough? Kruchina, Pavlov, Lisovolik, Pugo...

                        2 people - a marshal and a general. Moreover, the KGB general is not included in the 3683 army generals - it is not known how many there were.
                        I repeat - you won’t even recruit 10 people from those who swore to protect the USSR ....
                      5. The comment was deleted.
                      6. 0
                        17 November 2022 22: 55
                        Quote: Mordvin 3
                        No, you're a stranger to the board.

                        Naturally a stranger - to those 3683 snickering nits - generals - who had every opportunity to repeat Tiananmen and save the USSR, but were afraid - for their careers, pensions, dachas, rations, personal Volga, pillows in front of the coffin ....
                        Each of them - automatically fell under the Criminal Code of the RSFSR for betraying the oath. Each...
                        You can justify them further - it's up to you ...

                        In my opinion they are all 3683 man, they fully deserved a ravine for betraying the USSR and betraying the oath.
          3. +2
            16 November 2022 14: 24
            From there they will be called to Wagner. It seems there are no such "colonels".
            1. +3
              17 November 2022 09: 51
              So I think it’s better to serve in the “orchestra”, at least they will teach, provide .... soldier how to get to such a colonel negative what
          4. -1
            17 November 2022 21: 40
            Quote: your1970
            - this is obviously pushing them to jail ....

            Right. So this Tsipso offers! Haven't you understood yet? Approximately 60 bots have registered on this site and support each other's comments. Look carefully at all the comments.
      2. +5
        16 November 2022 13: 20
        Quote: your1970
        Criminal Code Article 338. Desertion

        And what about the criminal negligence of officials? The fighter dismissed his hands in vain, but in fact he is 100% right. And officials should be shot. Up to top management.
        1. -1
          17 November 2022 21: 49
          Quote: Ingvar 72
          but in essence he is 100% right

          Above the person gives the essence of the conversation. There, the mobilized stupidly and from scratch runs into the commander. Does not listen to answers and does not let others hear them.
          Furthermore. SUPPOSE that they really were given old armor that does not hold a bullet, but only fragments. And what now, these mobilized have the right not to go into battle? Or yell at the colonel, who is clearly not to blame for how much normal armor our Ministry of Defense has prepared?!
          Quote: Ingvar 72
          And officials should be shot. Up to top management.

          I agree. But only for specific, proven guilt. And by the verdict of the court, and not at the request of the mobilized fighter. Another way is anarchy and the collapse of the country. And we will not go down this path.
          I now have evidence on specific individuals and I convince the authorities to "get excited" on these facts.
          1. +1
            18 November 2022 04: 48
            Quote: Svateev
            Above the person brings the gist of the conversation

            Google or Telegram to help, watch the full video. All questions are fair, albeit overly emotional. Shooting at an imaginary enemy is an element of preparation? Combat instead of tactical exercises, what is it? In peacetime, on an urgent basis, this is understandable, but now?
            Not so long ago it was said that 1.5 million sets of Ratnik have already been produced. Where are they? Look at the Intelligence, Large-caliber Trouble - they shot different plates. And that armor really does not hold anything. Where are the people who reported on full provision? I am sure that in the same positions.
            Quote: Svateev
            And we will not go down this path.

            The power itself leads there.
            Quote: Svateev
            I convince the authorities to "excite" on these facts.

            They are frigid now. They do not want to work, even with a bunch of evidence.
            1. +1
              18 November 2022 18: 29
              Quote: Ingvar 72
              All questions are fair, albeit overly emotional.

              And the most "fair" question for subordinates is always the same: "Why should I, and not neighbor Vasya?" Order Vasya, he will also "fairly" ask: "Why me?"
              And there is only one answer to this question: "Because I, the commander, decided so!"
              Otherwise, no battle or war can be won.
              1. +1
                18 November 2022 19: 06
                Quote: Svateev
                "Why should I, and not neighbor Vasya?"

                Have you heard this question in these claims of the mobilized? No. Then why are you exaggerating?
                1. 0
                  19 November 2022 10: 35
                  Quote: Ingvar 72
                  Then why are you exaggerating?

                  I do not distort. In fact, the question is why his armor is worse than in other parts.
                  Moreover, the lieutenant colonel replies that they checked, it does not break through. But the impudent subordinate does not listen and oppresses your policy: I demand that I, my beloved, be protected better than anyone in the army! Otherwise, I will not go to war!
                  All the armies of the world break the horns of such "bulls". Otherwise it is impossible. Find on the Internet how in the First World War the French were shot for refusing to put on shoes from the dead. And just like yesterday Ukrainians shot five people in front of the formation for refusing to go into battle.
                  War is a bitch. The most dishonest thing in the world. The interests of the people take away the freedom of choice from the military. Carry out the order!
                  1. +1
                    19 November 2022 12: 22
                    Quote: Svateev
                    In essence, the question is why his armor is worse than in other parts.

                    No worse than in other parts, and why is he generally such that he does not hold a bullet at all. You distort accordingly. And there were no words that I would not go to war at all.
                    And protecting the system, remember that the blood of our prisoners killed yesterday in Makiivka is also on your hands. For it was the system that sent untrained and uncoordinated mobs there.
                    It is the system that is in need of a global reform for a long time that is wrinkling the tits. But now there are no prerequisites for this.
          2. -1
            18 November 2022 17: 02

            Furthermore. SUPPOSE that they really were given old armor that does not hold a bullet, but only fragments. And what now, these mobilized have the right not to go into battle? Or yell at the colonel, who is clearly not to blame for how much normal armor our Ministry of Defense has prepared?!
            How is the colonel not to blame? And who issued these armors? The soldier should be somehow deeply purple who stole which of the generals from the tamiya. The colonel is obliged to issue, and does not care how. If you can't, then go shoot yourself, that's your problem. And because of the rotten armor, a soldier can die. And this colonel will be an accomplice in the murder. It is correct that the soldier ran over, he defended his life from the thieving army in the person of the colonel. And the fact that he will be imprisoned is understandable. The military prosecutor's office and the court are still the same army that will turn inside out but will protect and defend itself. But about the missing one and a half lyamo sets, no one will ask anyone, and no one will get anything for it. For this, ordinary soldiers will pay with their lives. But the whole top doesn't give a damn about this.
            1. 0
              18 November 2022 18: 33
              Quote from Rustic
              The colonel is obliged to issue, and does not care how.

              Wow... "I don't know anything, but until they give me what I want, I won't fight"?! You will give your mother such ultimatums. And in the army, everything is as it should be.
              1. 0
                18 November 2022 20: 24

                Wow... "I don't know anything, but until they give me what I want, I won't fight"?! You will give your mother such ultimatums. And in the army, everything is as it should be.
                No need to overdo it here! Not what I want, but what is necessary. By the same statute. Or do you have a charter only for privates, but you bought stars for shoulder straps and you're all untouchable? And if everything is as it should be in your army, then maybe you will fight as it should, and not drag ordinary men from civilian life.
                1. 0
                  19 November 2022 10: 23
                  Quote from Rustic
                  what is due. By the same statute.

                  And in what charter did you find body armor? Cite. At least what statutes exist do you know?
                  Quote from Rustic
                  and bought stars for shoulder straps

                  You have stars, maybe they buy. We deserve.
                  Quote from Rustic
                  as expected, and you will fight yourself, and not drag ordinary men from civilian life.

                  fight for you? Are you slaves or serfs?
                  A free man fights for his freedom himself. And it doesn’t matter if he was called up from a civilian or he devoted his life to the army.
                  "Only he is worthy of happiness and freedom, who goes to fight for them every day" - I forgot whose poems.
                  1. +1
                    19 November 2022 14: 20
                    fight for you? Are you slaves or serfs?
                    A free man fights for his freedom himself. And it doesn’t matter if he was called up from a civilian or he devoted his life to the army.
                    Look at you, how do you look so no less than the boyars. Didn't you try to earn a living for yourself first? Although what am I talking about, of course not. It is because of such arrogant and considering themselves superior to others that such problems are obtained. I can protect myself, but then you drones, why should I feed?
  7. -23
    16 November 2022 05: 46
    From the article, I understood one thing, if war is a charter, discipline to a light bulb, the Makhnovshchina and lynching predominate ... Right, wrong, the higher command and the military prosecutor's office should decide, and this bull must be punished, and it is indicative that others know that the law and the charter in the army is above all, at any time, even in war
    1. +12
      16 November 2022 06: 54
      Quote from: alexandre
      From the article, I understood one thing, if war is a charter, discipline to a light bulb, the Makhnovshchina and lynching predominate ... Right, wrong, the higher command and the military prosecutor's office should decide, and this bull must be punished, and it is indicative that others know that the law and the charter in the army is above all, at any time, even in war

      No, the essence of the Law and the Charter is precisely that there should be a victory and not .... gestures of "good will" + the need to leave bridgeheads when they were raked out because of such colonels, beautiful in parades and in offices. And the soldier is right that it is necessary to teach military craft when he drove his own until the moment when they automatically did it without thinking ... And the colonel can be seen from the local office, I had to meet such Serdyukov samples!
      1. +7
        16 November 2022 08: 37
        And the colonel can be seen from the local office, I had to meet such Serdyukov samples!

        As for the charters, I absolutely agree, moreover, BATTLE charters should come first, and not marching in formation. On Red Square in 1941, no one was particularly worried about combat training, and I think even now it is not necessary to focus on it.
        I just didn’t understand why you called the colonel "Serdyukovsky"? I don’t presume to judge the usefulness of Serdyukov’s reforms, but firstly, before him, not a single Defense Ministry dared to change anything at all in the army, and it was Serdyukov who began the reforms (apparently too zealously - in some places he broke firewood), and secondly, he stayed in the Moscow Region for only five years, and a lot of water has flowed under the bridge since then, so the colonel should be called "Shoigovsky", it was Shoigu who could not organize the training of the mobilized. And I absolutely agree that the training program should have been drawn up even before the mobilization, in extreme cases - at the beginning of the mobilization. I am a civilian, I have to participate in the training of technical personnel for the repair and maintenance of our equipment. And of course, before training, we draw up training programs, and different ones for different categories of trainees. And in the army, sorry, this is a mess! Moreover, before Serdyukov and after Serdyukov, and references to Serdyukov look completely inappropriate so many years after he left the Moscow Region.
        1. +20
          16 November 2022 08: 51
          Because I experienced the reforms myself ... Yes, and I saw how the education system was destroyed (in NVVKKUS, in particular, it was forbidden to bring material other than lectures and approved ones), the destruction of military structures, I will call political workers + medical service in the old way. By the way, there was an attempt to destroy the technical service in the air regiment (they tried to replace civilian specialists and groups from factories !!!), the rear was also for civilians, a ban on the household work of soldiers, they gave the command to destroy the mobilization system !!! And by the way, military registration and enlistment offices ... now it comes back to haunt us! And the cherry on the cake, the General Staff has turned into a brothel with servants! Previously, in the General Staff, if they checked, then they felt combat and experienced commanders, but then you yourself understand. I have something to tell and compare! And the worst thing in our case, after Serdyukov, they did something on the facade, but did not restore the system on the base!
          1. -1
            16 November 2022 09: 45
            Sorry, but techies for civilian specialists are right. Since a person trained in repair and maintenance will do it both efficiently and quickly, unlike a soldier. Secondly, the same outfits in the dining room take time for preparation, both practical and theoretical. So, where, as the reforms were applied, this is already to the commanders (officers), and, apparently, they have degenerated now.
            1. +9
              16 November 2022 13: 17
              Quote: nemez
              Sorry, but techies for civilian specialists are right. Since a person trained in repair and maintenance will do both efficiently and quickly, unlike a soldier.

              before you write this, figure out what technical staff is and what their staffing structure is. There are essentially no soldiers there, since a specialist is an officer with an education! Which is 24x7 in the SERVICE, not in the WORK! And the degeneration began just after the destruction of military specialists! Request from the commander. Can you tell me why we had a series of "unsuccessful" launches after the involvement of civilian "specialists"?
          2. +4
            16 November 2022 10: 31
            Quote: lithium17
            a ban on the household work of soldiers, they gave the command to destroy the mobilization system !!! And by the way, military registration and enlistment offices ... now it comes back to haunt us!

            а BEFORE Serdyukov was everything in openwork?
            Yes, do we have a file cabinet and tables / chairs from the times of the USSR in our military registration and enlistment office? Serdyukov stole new ones? Or all polls our ministers of defense were in astrakhan hats - so that at least they had the appearance of brains?
            When the major general commander of the army aviation of the district takes off fire shield (!!!!) shovel (!!) and says to his Rex - "Take it on board, otherwise I have a garden dig(!!!) nothing!"
            Everyone knows - what kind of shovels hang on shields? With it, only go to the enemies in the last attack - when there are no cartridges, no grenades, nothing ...
            And so such with a shovel, this general's grief wanted to depict something.


            Quote: lithium17
            ban on household work of soldiers
            - 6 fighters worked for him at the dacha - they built a new house. Household work, what’s there ...
            1. +7
              16 November 2022 13: 08
              Quote: your1970
              - 6 fighters worked for him at the dacha - they built a new house. Household work, what’s there ...

              there is no need to compare when there was an official ban on cleaning the territory, on the kitchen and other things from our army reality. I’ll even say more, one was indignant that the cleaning of the premises in the dormitory barracks was canceled at the Yeisk School !!! Well, I had to experience in Vatutinki what it means to resist and not to give soldiers to the dachas ... and not to the generals!
            2. +3
              16 November 2022 13: 21
              Quote: your1970
              and before Serdyukov everything was in openwork?
              yes, do we have a file cabinet and tables / chairs from the times of the USSR in the military registration and enlistment office?

              Everything is known in comparison and in solving real problems. And if a chair and a table are the main trump card in this matter! Well, here is the answer for you, that the inspector is looking at the shovel and where to sit, and we are looking for the reason! Somehow, the NSh of the rear of the district tried to take something like that from me ..., did not allow it. More respect!
              1. +1
                16 November 2022 20: 42
                Quote: lithium17
                Somehow, the NSH of the rear of the district tried to take something like that ..., did not allow it. Got more respect

                The only way in this situation for me - the ensign - to break this shovel on his head .... there was a very great desire to do this. God had mercy ..
                Quote: lithium17
                if the chair and table are the main trump card in this matter!

                This is an indicator of the fact that none of the ministers was engaged in military registration and enlistment offices. Even in theory...
                They just didn't do it at all...
                1. +1
                  17 November 2022 04: 25
                  The main thing in the current conditions is not to do it on camera.
          3. +8
            16 November 2022 11: 35
            I have something to tell and compare! And the worst thing in our case, after Serdyukov, they did something on the facade, but did not restore the system on the base!

            Wouldn't you like to ask where he looked and what the Supreme Commander-in-Chief did for twenty years?
            Even when Serdyukov was Minister of Defense, he was led by Prime Minister Putin. V.V.
            1. +6
              16 November 2022 13: 09
              Quote: assault
              Wouldn't you like to ask where he looked and what the Supreme Commander-in-Chief did for twenty years?

              He watched the parades while sitting in a chair!
              1. +1
                18 November 2022 02: 37
                He personally hosted parades, approved the state defense order, also went to exercises and defense enterprises, visited all MAKS and such Biathlons, and the result is sad ....
                An army of the 70-80s model is fighting in Ukraine.
                In the bulk of the troops, the equipment of my youth:
                T-62 and T-72, D-20 and D-30, Carnations and Acacias, BMP-2, Hurricanes and Grads ......

                Where are these 70% of new technology about which we have been "blow in our ears" for so many years ...
                If the supreme did not know, he must punish those who lied to him and the country, and if he knew and consciously lied to people, then excuse me as in that ditty "Beria, Beria has lost confidence ......"
                1. +1
                  18 November 2022 05: 50
                  Quote: assault
                  He personally hosted the parades,

                  There is a speech by Colonel General Ivashov about sitting in the chair of the GDP during the passage of troops ... even the Queen of England cannot afford this! And in general, this is disrespect for your army! If only I could sit in front of my units like that! Inspector? He is Barin and we are servants? Maybe it's theater for him? And if you look at his measure of a scout, these specialists are pouring in on trifles! Curious, is there anything similar in the world?
          4. +4
            16 November 2022 14: 32
            I’ll reveal a terrible secret: the soldiers, both engaged in household work, and continue to do it, in fact, conscripts are called for this, household work and all the outfits, in part, are their destiny. And as a rule, conscripts in parts are reduced to one unit so that they do not get in the way.
    2. +3
      16 November 2022 14: 22
      Do you speak the law above all else? Yes Yes laughing
  8. +24
    16 November 2022 05: 56
    Three hundred years have passed, nothing has changed.
    Orders are written in the statutes, but there is no time and cases, and therefore one should not adhere to the statute like a blind wall.

    Peter I
    1. +2
      16 November 2022 06: 36
      Those times of victories were where they were afraid of Russian weapons, now there are times of red lines.
  9. +21
    16 November 2022 06: 05
    It is so impressive that of all the conflicts over the past 30 years, no conclusions have been drawn ..
    1. +3
      17 November 2022 04: 26
      There is no such impression. The way it is.
  10. +26
    16 November 2022 06: 15
    Today it was on the channel that Leshakov was 15 years old, a criminal case was opened. Underground this salivate nothing at all. Such is justice
    1. +1
      16 November 2022 09: 46
      In 1905 it was the same, what resulted is known.
    2. AUL
      +13
      16 November 2022 10: 18
      If according to the mind, then this regiment must be presented with an article for sabotage, wrecking and undermining the defense capability of the state during the war!
      Oh, yes, we don't have a war, but our own ... Well, then everything is fine!
  11. 0
    16 November 2022 06: 23
    Why is there no approved program: you need to be able to do this and that, know something else, have an idea about the third ... But it turns out that partisans are being trained: who is in what much?
  12. +23
    16 November 2022 06: 30
    Is the Colonel still serving? Why not reprimanded? Why isn't he in the trenches yet?
  13. +6
    16 November 2022 06: 35
    Does Leshkov's example show that it is necessary to run away from such an army? Are those who escaped right?
    1. +2
      16 November 2022 10: 04
      Especially it is necessary to run away from those with shovels. They are not even trusted with weapons, they are so dangerous. You are right, the enemies of the Russian army must run without looking back. But you can just give up and stay alive.
  14. +32
    16 November 2022 06: 41
    The mobilized are right, they lose their health in the trenches, so they ask for a little life, teach them so that the short life of a soldier does not disappear for a darma, so that they can at least take the enemy with them. After all, this Leshkov did not run away to Georgia, like many, he honestly came ..... Walk in formation. February 24 taught little to guarantors and effective managers, they will destroy 300 thousand and again everyone will start to wipe their feet on us ...
  15. +7
    16 November 2022 06: 51
    How far is it from Alabino to the Kremlin? Closer and closer dissatisfied to the "stronghold of our democracy" and "celestials" But they also have weapons. REMOVE them away from the capital! And then an uneven hour will do business. But seriously, discipline should be discipline everywhere. Today he swore at a lieutenant colonel, beat him tomorrow, then killed him drunk. Did the author himself have to deal with such things? And I had to see this. And I will say more - usually such fighters who pump their rights in battle or hide behind others, or generally refuse to go into battle. And the drill is needed, it really teaches you to execute commands. As for field training, shooting, high-quality officers, etc. raised in the article, then VO has been writing about this for a long time. And we have experienced military personnel, and training grounds, and technical equipment, and we have been fighting along the borders for a long time. But we do not have a system of selection, promotion of officers to higher positions. And we have a negative selection for promotion to higher positions.
    1. +3
      16 November 2022 07: 54
      Here is my question HOW can I refuse to go to the FIGHT? No, of course, I am behind the times and not very familiar with democratic values ​​in the conditions of the modern army, but refusing to go into battle during a database is just a bullet from the commander, there are no more options.
      1. +6
        16 November 2022 08: 59
        It's very simple: you go into an army tent where half are drunk and live according to the rules. There are also a bunch of different grandfathers, cool, paid off and you say that you need to go to the mountains, work. And they send you and answer:,, you need, you and go,,. One major began to insist, they just stuffed his face. And the most interesting thing is that the prosecutor's office does not want or does not want to do anything, for some reason only they know. In about the same way in 2002 we had it. Ten people will be taken to the prosecutor's office, they will bring them back in a week, sort it out yourself. In 2000 we were taken to Chechnya. The officers huddled around the lantern. The captain went to take a piss in the dark, returned with a broken face.
        1. +16
          16 November 2022 10: 21
          As Strelkov-Girkin said, fun times for the authorities will begin when such mobilized people begin to return home. In the trenches they will be cured of "fear" and "respect" for the authorities and will see enough of the real "trench" truth. And when they come home, they will start asking questions that will require an answer. Crap habitually, these questions will not work.
          1. +6
            16 November 2022 12: 50
            Quote: Monster_Fat
            As Strelkov-Girkin said, fun times for the authorities will begin when such mobilized people begin to return home ...

            It is quite possible that Strelkov's forecasts are being fulfilled with frightening accuracy.
    2. +4
      16 November 2022 14: 48
      we are also strained with landfills - there are no landfills imitating urban development, a kilometer from the village in which I live there is an unfinished abandoned village of five houses, so there the units stand in line to practice, the cannonade is standing from morning to evening, because there is nowhere else request
      1. +2
        16 November 2022 15: 26
        Well, yes, but we have a lot of abandoned military camps left.
  16. +3
    16 November 2022 06: 54
    And why do the enemies of the USSR, who seized the RSFSR, need all this? They, with their inhuman mentality, proved that they do not care that after the capture of the RSFSR by them, the supermortality of the people amounted to more than 16 million people, this is more than the Nazis killed the citizens of the RSFSR.
    And why would they teach something to "meat", which they drive to slaughter?
  17. +1
    16 November 2022 07: 10
    The army is a discipline. Foolish orders perhaps. But without discipline, where is the guarantee that the soldier will obey the order? Or the colonel will say go to 3 letters, this is not a legitimate order, you need to be judged. It seems that the author of this article does not understand this
  18. +19
    16 November 2022 07: 30
    Sorry truthbearer. If you don't help him, he will really sit down for a long time, military prosecutors are insects of a special kind. Unfortunately, he is not the first and not the last. And the lieutenant colonel remained clean and even injured. And again, peace and quiet, Staver can again write about how good everything is and what a scoundrel this troublemaker is, or as he was called here in the article: "camouflaged squalor."
    Ah, Russia....
  19. +11
    16 November 2022 07: 32
    For 3 weeks, an acquaintance shot at the camera once, the rest of the time they sat like at the station (prudboy). That's all the preparation. But from those shots they arranged it as if Rimbaud was being prepared from them
    1. -1
      17 November 2022 22: 01
      Quote: Suomynona
      For 3 weeks, an acquaintance shot at the camera once, the rest of the time they sat like at the station (prudboy)

      On what date did he arrive at Prudboy and depart from there? I can check how much they shot.
  20. -11
    16 November 2022 07: 41
    A soldier must always be busy, otherwise he will have bad thoughts in his head. These are truisms. The colonel did not know this, most likely from the teachers ..
    1. +7
      16 November 2022 13: 01
      Quote: Kurva18
      A soldier must always be busy, otherwise he will have bad thoughts in his head. These are truisms. The colonel did not know this, most likely from the teachers ..

      When a soldier is always busy, so long as he does not have bad thoughts, then at night he will be on the chip with his eyes closed in three minutes and he will be purple for all the rustles-passwords-colleagues.
  21. +9
    16 November 2022 07: 43
    "The mentality of the elite", as they say ..... It does not change over the centuries and under any government. How he felt like a boss - "nobility" - he does not care at all. vestiges of a class society. local traditions. But then the army will not be a modern army, but an army of the 17th century of King Peas.

    The difference between the modern army is that it invests so much in a soldier that it is not profitable to treat him like cannon fodder. It costs too much.

    But for that to happen, you first need to be put up against the wall for theft and a mess in the Army. According to the laws of war. Discipline must begin at the other end, as under Stalin, from above. So that the soldiers see the polkan in their labors and worries. Not in chocolate. Otherwise, there will be no point.
  22. +4
    16 November 2022 07: 50
    A rebel in a penal battalion, a colonel in an apron in the kitchen, to command bowls, to shoot the unit commander in Alabino in public, the judge who put the Russian Warrior on soap.
  23. +13
    16 November 2022 07: 57
    In general, the idea of ​​\uXNUMXb\uXNUMXb"one trench" is not bad !! If you check the work of the trainees and give them grades, there will be a representative "from the trench" ..... Who really does not want the replenishment to return back in coffins.
    The class division into "clean" and "comfrey" castes should be abolished. So that it was: today half a dozen here, and tomorrow there!
    1. +11
      16 November 2022 09: 56
      I can imagine if this colonel is sent to the front and given a regiment, he will command him .... Here one breaks life, there the regiment is half in captivity, half in the ground.
      No, those are far away from the front - somewhere in the ZabVO with a pomp, it's easier and cheaper than retraining him as a military officer for several years.
      1. -2
        16 November 2022 13: 32
        Your ideas about the army can be judged by two words, send to Zabvo and pompotyla.
      2. 0
        18 November 2022 17: 16
        No, those are far away from the front - somewhere in the ZabVO with a pomp, it's easier and cheaper than retraining him as a military officer for several years.
        And then wonder, why in the place of the new uniform the old rotten? No, it’s easier and cheaper than a bullet in the forehead and in a ditch.
  24. +8
    16 November 2022 07: 58
    Quote: Pilat2009
    Quote: Krilion
    I would recommend that the mobilized, if they are not given any training, just pack their things and move home .. war has not yet been declared - they will not be sent to prison .. but they are guaranteed to remain alive ... the guys from Ukraine are returning, the mobilized write. . the general impression is complete darkness with preparations and, in general, with the conduct of hostilities .. I won’t write details, otherwise they’ll put them in a panama hat, but it seems that our prospects are very, to put it mildly, sad ... one hope is that ukrov can be even worse...

    A work colleague in Moscow has a friend in a hospital. He was near Kherson. There was only one machine gun for three, they sat under fire and drones, it was impossible to raise their heads.

    I don't believe him. The machine gun is one for three only because two of them dropped their weapons to hide from the Drones. Of all these fears, I can only believe in one thing: it is always scary in war. Who will send three with one machine gun? And most importantly, with what task? Even the stories of the wounded need to be filtered a little.
    1. +6
      16 November 2022 08: 15
      In war, some are also afraid because others are not at all afraid. It's scary that you were betrayed even before you were sent to the war zone.

      Three with one machine gun can easily be sent by someone who is sure that no one will send him anywhere. And he will sell two machines. And part of the proceeds will be sent "upstairs", this will be a guarantee of his peace of mind.

      Why do you think, for example, "Armata" is not produced to this day? Yes, because billions were "mastered" at UVZ, but they did not start building workshops ... UVZ is suing contractors. And you are writing about some kind of machine gun ... a speck of dust in space is this machine gun .... Not the scale!
  25. +27
    16 November 2022 08: 05
    Gentlemen, authors, well, you are like children right) Well, where can I get officers? People came to the army for money. And for the colonel's positions paid well! The army, like everything in modern Russia, was supposed to generate cash flow "up". She did great! Nothing else "from above" was ever demanded. The fact that there is at least someone real in Alabino is not normal, but strange. Wow, someone continues to serve in spite of everything ...
    1. -7
      16 November 2022 08: 58
      And you probably serve in the army if you are so "deeply in the subject" about flows in directions?
      1. +10
        16 November 2022 09: 39
        I am the Prince of the Galaxy) This is a network, not an HR department, in case you haven't noticed. And I am quite aware of the flows. Me and everyone else. As in our country, and in the army, things are being done, the people are quite aware of it. No matter how disappointing this popular knowledge is, the wise authorities.
    2. -1
      16 November 2022 23: 54
      Mikhail3
      Well, where to get the officers? People came to the army for money

      Don't talk nonsense. This colonel has a smaller salary than you will
    3. +2
      17 November 2022 16: 11
      Nevertheless, the same PMCs, in which there are no ranks, work quite effectively, unlike the RF Armed Forces.
  26. +11
    16 November 2022 08: 15
    He shouldn't have touched the officer. This is clear. Insult him too. Using a mate in a conversation is one thing, but an insult is another. Probably, the mobilized should have access to the prosecutor's office in order to leave a complaint about the commander's actions. And so - it's not the case at all. My conclusion - the underground that allowed such a situation - to be demoted. Do not freeze a private in a pre-trial detention center for six months, but explain the situation and offer an alternative. If you want to sit, and this is for anyone, only the term is discussed, if you want, learn to play musical instruments.
    1. +13
      16 November 2022 09: 43
      People will go to battle. And instead of preparing, this filth is playing the fool. In fact, if you think about it, Mr. Officer is preparing people for massacre. As meat. To not resist. So, according to the Charter, it seems that people are not in the right, but in life ... Who goes to the Prosecutor's Office without a "lamb in a piece of paper"? What is there to do empty?
      1. 0
        16 November 2022 10: 37
        Well, they had the Internet - an online complaint, an appeal to the online reception of the State Duma. Something can be done. But, this shouldn't be. There is no democracy in the army, there are no elections. Well, the officer must also be held accountable. It seems that such stars are too early for him.
  27. The comment was deleted.
    1. +5
      16 November 2022 09: 56
      Send teachers to the front, even during the Second World War they were booked. Even if they asked for it themselves. There was only one answer, who would teach then.
    2. 0
      16 November 2022 10: 41
      Exhaustive. Everything is right and on topic. I completely agree.
    3. +1
      16 November 2022 12: 19
      And there the soldiers themselves will knock the horns of this bull!
      It is categorically impossible to justify his bull with a passion for defending the motherland and an irrepressible desire to learn military science in a real way, as the unforgettable V.I. Lenin said. What they would immediately explain to him in the trenches on the front.
    4. +10
      16 November 2022 13: 12
      Quote from Cap
      ... instead of a hero folder, children will most likely hide part of his biography ...

      You are greatly mistaken. Almost everyone with whom I spoke on this topic considers the mobilized, if not a hero, then certainly a brave fellow. And definitely right one hundred percent. And the officer, on the contrary, also wants supplements for him, not porridge of course. These are the moods in the shirnarmasses, as they say. And who is to blame for this, who staged the matter in such a way that such sentiments began to dominate in society? Certainly not mobs.
      1. +1
        16 November 2022 15: 34
        In paragraph 3, I gave a reference to a certain appeal to the "hero" from the front line. No one argues that those men who did not fade over the hillock, did not go to the taiga to hunt for two months, to fish in the Volga delta for the whole autumn, but came and became operational - they deserve respect. But if, they decided for themselves. that they want to be men, they must follow these principles to the end. One of the main qualities of a man, a warrior, is: endurance, maintaining a sense of self-control, behavior with dignity and honor, without tantrums, etc. I’m ready to lend a hand to cutting off, that if a lieutenant colonel in the format of Karelin or Valuev stood in front of that hero, then there were much fewer harsh words, especially movements, probably there weren’t at all ... and this is an indicator of masculinity and, probably , ending.
        1. -1
          18 November 2022 05: 32
          Here, according to yamastersport, interesting details begin to come out.
          Well, first let's say that he was not mobilized, but went like a volunteer - very evil tongues suggest that this is how he decided to get away from debt collection (about 200 sput). They were not going to call him up - he did not serve in the army from the word at all. But knowledge of how the educational process should be organized has the broadest. Okay, everyone is now trying to somehow survive and solve their affairs.
          Well, here's the cherry on the cake - this summer he was tried for beating his own mother. Case No. 5-1867/2022. Vidnovsky City Court, who cares.
          Gentlemen, authors, are you sure that you fit in with the right person?
          Naturally, this does not cancel all the problems with the preparation of the mobile resource. It's just that the goon had a direct benefit by attracting attention to himself as long as possible to stay away from the front line, and the fact of filming from different angles does not indicate the preparedness of this "event"?
          1. 0
            18 November 2022 08: 43
            Well. here, there are no miracles in the world ..... Only an appeal to the authors can be regarded by moderators as trolling (my comment was banned and a warning was issued :)))), there are two opinions, one "mine" the second is wrong))) )
      2. -4
        16 November 2022 23: 57
        Beringovsky
        Almost everyone with whom I spoke on this topic considers the mobilized, if not a hero

        Yes, the army was lowered below the plinth for more than 20 years ... What is there to be surprised at. ... And the redneck masses - even more so ...
    5. ada
      0
      16 November 2022 14: 47
      Quote from Cap
      The author, apparently not serving properly, but using the opinion of "some Eusperts", confuses the warm with the soft. ...

      I support! I supported you in the last topic on this occasion - everything is correct.
      It's not just an author - a triumvirate of "bright heads" wassat They should put down their pen for a while - it's too "sharp" wassat , or they themselves will slaughter or cripple someone, and worst of all, the brains of readers.
      The situation is usually solved in three ways:
      Quietly. Zakopershchik is quickly figured out, taken aside and allowed to "blow off steam", without leading to hopeless bickering, the rest are occupied with other things and a place. If normalization in the unit is obvious, they take the usual measures of disciplinary action against the background of the mandatory correction of errors in the organization of training. Buyan is noted for the future. Several immediate and direct superiors are involved.
      Loud. They do not enter into further direct confrontation, they note the failure to comply with the order, an immediate report to the superior, the unit is isolated from others if possible (you can send it to the location, let them scratch their tongues, relax), papers are written, the superior arrives, VP, formation, questioning complaints and statements, The VP takes away the brawler and those who joined, the showdown with the command, etc. until the situation is corrected. The whole structure is involved, including the military court.
      On the right. And, according to the correct one, a reliable support unit should be created (with standard weapons and portable ammunition, mobile equipment and means of emergency communications) with commandant functions, which ensures the protection in the initial period of formation of all formations of a large number of personnel and other activities involving a significant part of the forces and means of the formed unit and is immediately called to the place of violation of discipline, the cartridge is sent to the chamber and the weapon is put on the fuse, the bayonet-knife is attached, special equipment and handcuffs are being prepared, the commander of the "rebellious" in a wild voice gives the command to build, and the duty unit takes the perimeter and ensures the protection of the place, the position of the weapon is ready for firing while standing, the rioters are bred as for inspection or in a row, if armed, the commands "Put. Weapon." etc., who committed a violation of discipline, with signs of a crime, are detained, and then everything that was in the previous one, the unit is disbanded and transferred in fractional parts to other VC, disassembly, court, bringing the results to l / s in the part concerning. Telegrams to the troops, etc.
      All methods are suitable, perhaps a combination, I recommend, there were worse, but I will not describe. It is very good to have a PC or PKK in the commandant's office - it very much inspires the right actions to the wrong ones.
      And what is the most important thing? And, most importantly, to form a unit, you must initially create the backbone, the pro-structure of the organization of the unit, HF - the organizational core, prepare the entire process from the reception and distribution of personnel, equipment, accommodation, catering to the organization of training, even considering that the unit will be temporary for the period of training in the specialty to form a marching HF to make up for losses with distribution to different parts. And so, a handful of called-ups is not a unit, it is a potential source of disgrace.
      1. 0
        16 November 2022 15: 46
        Everything is very correct, but my message was considered trolling and banned))))) ... they know better than the moderators, here, just there is a double interpretation in the interests of certain parties: that is, what the authors write about is a violation of certain rules \ laws (Charter, Criminal Code of the Russian Federation) in some approximation is allowed, but on the portal / resource, violation of the rules (moreover, some personal perception of this or that information, so to speak, in a subjective format - no)))), well, okay, survive)))
        1. ada
          -1
          16 November 2022 16: 36
          Exactly! I looked - your message is no longer there, but it is very correct, one might say - indicative. This mess. It's not clear why it was removed, is it a bug or a policy?
          1. -1
            17 November 2022 08: 18
            When the truth disagrees with the implanted opinion, it becomes unnecessary))))
      2. +1
        18 November 2022 17: 29
        the cartridge is sent to the chamber and the weapon is put on the fuse, the bayonet is attached, special equipment and handcuffs are being prepared,
        You also forgot towers with machine guns, thorns and guards with dogs. And yes, and the inscription on the gate "To each his own."
        1. ada
          -1
          18 November 2022 19: 48
          Well, towers, machine guns, a thorn, "a dog with guards" (VOKhra will do? Guard, what kind is there?) And so it is in the troops, organizations and institutions of the Moscow Region, where necessary, but more would be needed.
          Inscriptions, they are regulated in the Armed Forces.
          The procedure for holding events in the HF and the composition, armament, tasks, etc. of the duty unit to ensure them in peacetime are determined by departmental legal acts, and there is also a handful of other regulatory legal acts.
          For the period of mobilization, martial law and wartime - they are somewhat different.
          I believe you are deliberately comparing the Armed Forces with a concentration camp to discredit the army.
          And, yes - your mustache has peeled off wassat
  28. +11
    16 November 2022 08: 34
    Charter is a good thing. But make a fool pray to God and he will hurt his forehead.
    And the main misfortune of our army, as well as the entire vertical, is there is no focus on results. What is required from an official/military? Mastering the budget, the absence of excesses (suddenly the soldier cuts his finger, then the officer will be dragged to court). So a generation of officers / managers has grown up who can perfectly organize the painting of the grass and the fight against the leaves and writing amazing reports. and then other people will solve the problem somehow for a small price.
    But if economic issues still had to be resolved, then who asked for combat training? Our army was divided into 2 worlds. 1 is any special forces. They prepared norms there, but this is an extremely small part of all forces. But these are regular military men who can be beckoned with a carrot in the form of a rank or scared with a fine, an entry in a personal file.
    2. This is a crowd of conscripts. Cooking which makes no sense, time, money and desire. The main thing is that they would not be crippled from idleness and foolishness. And their combat skills did not rest against anyone in the pisun.
    So now the "instructor" is going nuts because they don't understand how to behave with mobs. These are not conscripts who just need to be occupied with something so that they don’t shy away from doing nothing. And not counters which can be punished with penalties and a ruble. And they wanted to sneeze on a career in the sun. Yes, and exaggerated authority based on age and ignorance of youth cannot be crushed. It's like a kindergarten teacher to charge a crowd of vocational schools. Supply also follows this principle. "HOW TO give a soldier an expensive thing. He will lose / sell / break it, and then answer me, the unfortunate captain / storekeeper? Look, let the 3rd grade of the 5th category wear like everyone else." I'm here a retired polkan from the gene. headquarters listened. (Trukhan sometimes flickers in the Internet media). So he was indignantly indignant: "Are we supposed to fire artillery at the request of each sergeant? Yes, this is complete nonsense." That's all you need to know about the interaction of troops in the RF Armed Forces.
    1. +1
      16 November 2022 10: 02
      Supply also follows this principle. "HOW TO give a soldier an expensive thing. He will lose / sell / break it, and then answer me, the unfortunate captain / storekeeper? That's right to the point, it was like that at my factory until recently. We received a new tool in the warehouse, and it they didn’t give it out, the old one still works (every other time, and you constantly sort it out).
  29. +10
    16 November 2022 08: 35
    Who ruined the army by appointing narrow-minded people to the posts of minister ...
  30. Eug
    +7
    16 November 2022 08: 43
    Right in essence, but wrong in form - as is very often the case. As for training, I have long believed that IN THE WHOLE army it should be set up in such a way that it would be INTERESTING for the trained fighter, first of all, to master the science of winning. According to my estimates, it is realistic to make sure that about 90 percent of the material is interesting to somewhere around 80-90 percent of the trainees, which is already a lot ... in ZSU, by the way, training is set up like that, which is also one of the reasons for the problems of the "allied forces" ...
    I remember how, at a rare military review in the 90s, the head of the TEC, who led the "box" of his subordinates, turned around, raised his hand and commanded (?): Guys, paaaashli! And after all, they passed, they did not shame ...
    And one more thing - there are a lot of videos of marines marching in Alexandropulis in Yu-Tube, I personally am much more impressed by their marching step than the front one ...
    1. +1
      16 November 2022 18: 02
      Roughly the same:

      And what is the result?

      I wonder what this "hero" said at the tribunal?
      If anyone downvotes, I'll count it as a plus!
  31. -3
    16 November 2022 08: 44
    The one who is supposedly an athlete is an ordinary boor. It is definitely not the main thing for him to observe the rules of decency or the laws of his country. In the video, he clearly shows himself in front of the crowd, feeling it behind his back, and in this he sees his buzz. In extreme conditions, such people behave inadequately, because he can release all his energy only to the side that is currently in a clearly losing scenario, while creating an uncomfortable environment of doubt among the environment. Very untrustworthy individuals. If the information about his detention is true, then this is clearly the best thing that can be done for society. I also think that in order to extinguish such sentiments in this case, the officer had to be accompanied by the military police, who, at the very first assault of this type, had to put him in the ground with his muzzle.
    1. +1
      16 November 2022 10: 09
      Quote: alexvmar
      The one who is supposedly an athlete is an ordinary boor. It is definitely not the main thing for him to observe the rules of decency or the laws of his country. In the video, he clearly shows himself in front of the crowd, feeling it behind his back, and in this he sees his buzz. In extreme conditions, such people behave inadequately, because he can release all his energy only to the side that is currently in a clearly losing scenario, while creating an uncomfortable environment of doubt among the environment. Very untrustworthy individuals. If the information about his detention is true, then this is clearly the best thing that can be done for society. I also think that in order to extinguish such sentiments in this case, the officer had to be accompanied by the military police, who, at the very first assault of this type, had to put him in the ground with his muzzle.

      You also attach a police squad to each polkan
    2. +5
      16 November 2022 10: 26
      The main thing here is not the behavior of a fighter gone nuts in the attack. There were and will be a lot of such and even tougher ones. And in the behavior of the command staff. This composition is simply in prostration. They are not accustomed to the fact that a subordinate demands something. Previously, any soldier was looking for an opportunity to ... "get lost" for a while in physical or digging trenches there. It was generally considered a punishment. So the officers are used to working in such realities. And here you need to teach really, and not rewrite lesson plans.
      In addition, officers have been drummed for decades that the main thing for personnel is not to be crippled. And then they will drag you through the courts. Remember that case with cadets who were beaten on the street. Well, we got such commanders. And the sooner such regiments are removed, the better.
      And then such a fighter will not be persuaded by a regiment, but the sergeant will simply break off his horns. On kraynyak a couple of fighters from the military police.
  32. +5
    16 November 2022 08: 46
    For starters, we should be talking not about preparing for the database, but about discipline. Somehow, in a similar case, I had to get the PM, pull the bolt and shoot into the air. When the fighter calmed down, then they talked heart to heart. Something like this.
  33. -17
    16 November 2022 08: 47
    Be that as it may, the collective farm bull must squat down and, moreover, exemplary as a warning to the rest. Well, the colonel can be fired, but only together with Shoigu and Gerasimov, since there is only one field of berries.
  34. +7
    16 November 2022 09: 04
    The fact that it is not necessary to touch the officer and be rude is obvious. But this is not a solution to the issue.

    The mass of military pennies that took the Oath in 1991 is troubled by the saints! No matter how someone violated the chain of command. REMOVING the head, they were alarmed about the hair.

    You need to pray to God to forgive the sins that children and grandchildren have to correct. Wallowing at the feet ..... And not vyzhivatsya. THAT YOU DID!
  35. The comment was deleted.
  36. +10
    16 November 2022 09: 09
    Colonel, it is necessary to go to the trenches from the beginning, and then train the soldiers, share their impressions.
    1. -7
      16 November 2022 10: 14
      Quote: kor1vet1974
      Colonel, it is necessary to go to the trenches from the beginning, and then train the soldiers, share their impressions.

      The colonel should sit in his office or take parades, and not flatter the units.
  37. +2
    16 November 2022 09: 17
    Don't talk nonsense, you can't sit in the same trench with us!
    So it’s clear / it’s known HOW to train fighters ... now this is especially important, vitally important, for EVERYONE!
    It is obvious that it will not happen everywhere as it should, but this may not last long, if / when, the command will know, it will respond promptly ...
    In general, but on command to convey your comments, claims, it doesn’t work out in any way ???
    I doubt that the careless will be covered from above .... not the time.
    1. +3
      16 November 2022 10: 14
      Problem
      HOW TO PREPARE fighters
      is obvious, but the root is that it is a consequence of "how officers should be trained."
      1. 0
        16 November 2022 11: 23
        Quote: JcVai
        "how to prepare officers."

        And this topic is raised, exacerbated, various options for solving the problem are offered ... but how exactly will it be solved, is that a question?
        Although, a recipe for all times - if you want to solve a problem, solve it in a complex way.
    2. +2
      16 November 2022 10: 34
      I doubt that the negligent will be covered from above .... not the time. ,,
      And you have no doubt, it will be so. They will cover, because their fifth point is closer. For who put this idiot in this position. Not stated in the article, but he spoke to people with his hands in his pockets.
    3. +4
      16 November 2022 22: 53
      Quote: rocket757
      I doubt that the careless will be covered from above .... not the time.

      Well, OK. Tell us who was punished, for example, for the Kharkov regrouping and the sunken cruiser Moscow?
      1. -2
        17 November 2022 07: 51
        Everything takes time and ... a lot more.
        Clanism, the desire to cover up one's well, no one has yet been able to cancel, and it is unlikely that this will be done as it should, to the end ...
        But, what is the conversation about in general, about the mess that exists at the grassroots level, which manifests itself clearly and harshly ... they will most likely start with him, because he is nearby, they can touch everyone and people can no longer be silent.
        The fish probably rotted their heads, but they will most likely start from the tail ... how high they will get, one can only guess ...
        Boom to see.
  38. BAI
    0
    16 November 2022 09: 36
    At the expense of a combatant in peacetime. There is an integral part - the song. Without it, for a combatant, it is satisfactory and not higher than good for the results of the training period. And then the Glavka commission came to our unit. Everything, everywhere is excellent and good, then drill. And in part of the tradition - part of the principle does not sing songs. I don't know where it came from, but it's ten years old.
    And so the inspector proudly prepared to accept the parade, declaring that, on his orders, he would have a song.
    The unit is going perfectly, but silently, under the smirk of the unit commander, who honestly warned the inspector.
    Everyone principally agreed to reduce the premium for a triplet for the period of study, but they did not change the traditions.

    By the way, yesterday or the day before Prilepin was asked on "Evening with Solovyov" what they would do in the Donbass battalions (in general and in him, in particular), if the private raised his hand to the officer. He answered - shooting at the knees, immediately
    1. +2
      16 November 2022 10: 37
      He replied - shooting at the knees, immediately,
      You are confusing, in combat conditions, and you can say in civilian life. And sticky to believe .... .
    2. +1
      18 November 2022 17: 47

      By the way, yesterday or the day before Prilepin was asked on "Evening with Solovyov" what they would do in the Donbass battalions (in general and in him, in particular), if the private raised his hand to the officer. He answered - shooting at the knees, immediately
      I wonder what they would have done in the same place with the officer who issued the rotten armor with the words "you and such will do, you will die anyway." A bullet in the forehead right away?
  39. -2
    16 November 2022 10: 11
    But these people, who frankly did not shine with combat training, did not have very even ranks, possessed one immeasurably more valuable thing - they were winners. Real. Genuine. Not dressed up. They fought for two years and eventually marched with their own parade.

    And they do not always keep pace, but it is excusable for them and they try ...

  40. +2
    16 November 2022 10: 17
    What can you say to the drill (or staff?) Trinity? Well done!!! Correctly opened the abscess.
    *****
    I have already noted that holding a victory parade in conditions when the Nazi evil spirits have raised their heads is not a vital necessity. After the coup in 1991, an irresistible craving for holidays of all levels appeared in the country. And the year 2022 came and it turned out that holidays are needed in moderation, and in life there is always a place for labor exploits and accomplishments. Fortunately, the “Russian elite”, which set the tone, already in the first hours of the NWO turned out its rotten insides ...
    I don’t know what they teach there in Alabino, but everyone mobilized on the very first day of conscription should be given a weapon with which he will fight to the very end. I remember how, together with the company commander, they shot and checked the weapons of EVERY motorized rifleman of the company ... Particular attention was paid to SVD and machine guns ... RPG, AGS, each soldier held in his hands and fired ...
    Coordination can take place during tactical exercises, which are preceded by platoon and company ...
    Our mobilized will not fight with the air and not with a virtual enemy, but with an ideological enemy trained and prepared according to NATO standards, which you can’t take with either a drill step or remote control ... And it doesn’t interfere with working out the skills of (practical) hand-to-hand combat ...
    I suppose Leshkov owned them, and the colonel - Russian obscene without a dictionary.
    At one time I demanded what I could do and show myself. I regret that since the film epic "Liberation" was shown, our military leaders had misconceptions about the conduct of hostilities ... Apparently, in Afghanistan they also strove to keep the line of vehicles and the formation of the advancing (you can open the footage of the exercises of that time) ...

    In addition, I suppose that in relatively peacetime and in a non-combat situation, there is another way to resolve the conflict that has arisen, except for condemnation for 15 years ... And public admissions of one's wrong and deep apologies will be enough.
    hi
  41. +2
    16 November 2022 10: 28
    Necessary postscript: The Odintsovo garrison military court took into custody a mobilized serviceman ...

    Perhaps, it was necessary to start with this, the article would have been read differently ...
  42. 0
    16 November 2022 10: 33
    The article must be attached to the case of the suspect Leshkov as an expert opinion.
    Of course, he is to blame, but if he had been softer in terms, there would probably have been no result of a conversation with the commander, lieutenant colonel. And he wanted to get things done.
  43. +2
    16 November 2022 10: 35
    Watching all these videos, I remember the chapters with the preparation of Astafiev mobilized in "Cursed and Killed". There he wrote that it was better to immediately go to the front than such training (near Novosibirsk). About 20 years ago I rented a room from one grandfather - he was over 80 and, like all old people, he lived more in the past than today. I remember more what happened 60 years ago than yesterday. I remembered about training when they called. He said that he got to a front-line soldier who taught them the real thing and received reprimands from the command for failures in the drill. But somehow they couldn’t influence him - he was without an arm and an order bearer, this couldn’t be kicked out. Grandfather said that he still prays for him. And the "neighbors" were commanded by some kind of rear. There everything was according to the classics, the result they had was sad.
  44. +9
    16 November 2022 10: 38
    Didn't even finish reading! After all, it is ELEMENTARY! The training should be done by officers from the FRONT! Who fought yesterday and fought for more than a month! I saw a video on how recruits are trained in PMC Wagner, this is HOW recruits should be trained! An instructor walks and shoots next to a soldier, yells and gives instructions, makes him apply a tourniquet, and bullets jump around the soldier in fountains! And what can a bag with a colonel's epaulettes give to soldiers? Only the future 200th!
    1. 0
      16 November 2022 11: 49
      Rather, officers must have firsthand combat experience.
      1. +3
        16 November 2022 13: 20
        Well, you need to understand what to prepare for. It’s one thing to swindle conscripts who have to “serve” 1 year of the type of “service” in peacetime, but it’s quite another thing to train fighters who in a month or two will go into a real battle, where you actually have to kill and you can be killed yourself . The difference in such preparations is enormous, simply incomparable. And by the way, the psychological factor plays a significant role in such preparation. Accordingly, those who more than sniffed gunpowder should prepare for real battles, according to special programs - as close as possible to "combat" life. And who, now, and for what, is preparing "mobikov" - FIG knows.
    2. -1
      16 November 2022 15: 45
      For such conclusions, you need to at least know the position of that lieutenant colonel. Naturally, he is not an instructor conducting field exercises with fighters. And not a squad leader or even a company commander.
      1. +2
        17 November 2022 05: 09
        It is, of course, understandable. The lieutenant colonel must be able to sign where they show. But still, he must be aware of what and how is organized in the unit. A position at the underground, this is from the deputy battalion commander to the commander of a regiment or brigade. Including all sorts of deputies and chiefs within these units.
        Although near Moscow he can only be authorized to open the gates to the generals.
        1. 0
          17 November 2022 10: 48
          If, in essence, the conflict, then it turns out that they turn to the commander who organizes the educational process in their unit. In other divisions, according to the applicants, the process is better organized, and, it seems, they have already raised this issue. So, there is the head of this lieutenant colonel, who controls the training process. He needs to go out. Officially. And repeating the same action without changing anything and hoping for a change in the result is such a thing ...
          1. -2
            17 November 2022 17: 27
            Yes, 100% applied. And the underground, as usual, began to shut up his mouth. The beginning is not shown for sure. This is the first reaction of any "commander".
    3. 0
      18 November 2022 17: 02
      Soldiers need to be trained according to the combat charter, and there are some kind of Wagners here, that they showed us something new, yes maybe quadrocopters and everything connected with them, but the rest is a combat charter, everything is written there how a soldier should act in battle., I remember training in the Baltic states and serving in the GSVG in mother infantry, the first thing they explained to us at the training ground was that the deeper your soldier’s trench, the longer you live in battle and we infantry carried a chance tool everywhere, and how much I and my colleagues dug up the land, this is not counting subject to. Simple sergeants were taught, thanks to them, they remained alive after Tajikistan. Nobody wore a machine gun with cancer and didn’t shoot in a jump, they taught the infantry how to live in a war. And you saw now someone is teaching a soldier how to dig a trench for shooting, and you saw a sapper shovel from the mobilized I didn’t see something. These pseudo-instructors teach that an infantry fighter absolutely does not need and is not useful in combined arms combat. He needs to be explained how to quickly dig into the ground and hide from a projectile. teaching upside down, and then we wonder how 6 people could die at once, so they all sat in the same pit, some kind of field madhouse.
  45. +14
    16 November 2022 11: 17
    After the start of the SVO, I thought that it would come to mobilization, they would call, but what can I do as a combat unit? It turned out that I was a so-so combat unit, my skills to participate in hostilities, to put it mildly, were not sufficient. For military service, they didn’t teach me anything useful, except how to shoot from a machine gun (4 times a year ...) And what do I see today? They pull people, scoring their lives and problems, they equip them, as in the 80s, they don’t want to train, they can’t provide proper conditions, etc. I see jingoistic patriots screaming "you are mobilized, you are not a man, so obey and be patient", I see arrogant rear officers who sleep and see how the mobilized were quickly taken away so that they do not interfere with their peaceful life. People shouting, "he is not behaving according to the charter, blah, blah, blah," although they themselves did not see and did not open the charter. Open it, read it, you will be very surprised what is written there. What conclusions should I draw from everything I see? The salvation of the drowning is the work of the drowning themselves. Therefore, I fully support a fighter who demands that he and his comrades be trained properly. And about the mats and assault - well, the officer does not understand in normal words, he does not understand. If it doesn’t work out that way, then next time we will see the broken face of an officer.
    Advice to those who may be subject to mobilization - watch educational videos on medicine, tactics, weapons, equipment, buy a tourniquet, bandage at the pharmacy, practice. The likelihood that no one will really deal with you is very high.
    1. -6
      16 November 2022 15: 19
      Minus. And in the trench, if this soldier does not agree with the order of the officer, will he also be beaten in the face? Tribunal!
    2. +1
      18 November 2022 17: 58
      Advice to those who may be subject to mobilization - watch educational videos on medicine, tactics, weapons, equipment, buy a tourniquet, bandage at the pharmacy, practice. The likelihood that no one will really deal with you is very high.
      You propose to train yourself, equip yourself, mobilize yourself ... Then maybe you can command yourself the same? And then what for commanders are needed, and the Ministry of Defense in general, if everything is all by yourself anyway?
  46. +2
    16 November 2022 11: 19
    Drilling is the initial stage of combat training, teaching discipline, following commands, a sense of elbow and joint action of the team. Naturally, this affects the combat coordination of the unit. Now, when combat is no longer carried out with melee weapons in close formation, the precise execution of combat commands in battle has already lost its significance. Therefore, it cannot be turned into drill and stepping, unless this is the main task of the unit.
    1. -3
      16 November 2022 15: 47
      drill training and yelling at the same time marching songs so that the windows in the barracks trembled ,, wassat are a good form of physical training in a sparing mode, especially for people who have just come from civilian life - tested on themselves / / passed two kmb, combatant for six hours every other day, but when the real races of ten kilometers began, and weekly marches of 30 km, I realized that this is not so much nonsense and all this drill / /
      1. 0
        17 November 2022 11: 06
        I agree with this. That's what I'm writing about, that the drill should not become an end in itself, like, a drill for the sake of a drill. In addition to ceremonial divisions.
  47. +2
    16 November 2022 11: 19
    In any case, you need to control yourself in relation to the senior in rank, even though you are right
  48. +11
    16 November 2022 11: 24
    For some reason, I did not see descriptions on the net that the military prosecutor's office and the court would hold officers accountable for our soldiers killed and captured. Not a single case. Burnt Russian columns of the first days, commandos who died in Kharkov, the crossing near Belogorovka, the story of the marines of the Pacific Fleet. Etc.
    Ask around those who fought there. Not everything gets into the media.
    And they responded quickly.
  49. +7
    16 November 2022 11: 24
    As a matter of fact, in any business it is necessary to sacrifice something. Otherwise you won't. "Mobs" sacrificed subordination in order to achieve the main thing - to improve the quality of education. And they are right, because their lives depend on it.
    And the colonel committed an malfeasance openly. And no one from the authorities responds. But it is absolutely not clear why many people here simply proceed about subordination .... be patient, citizens and THIS too - since you have such a mess in your country and you have been tolerating it for decades. So what has happened to you now? Heh ... heh .... as they say; "Christ endured and commanded you"
    1. -4
      16 November 2022 15: 17
      Minus. The malfeasance was committed by the mobilized. And they are subject to court-martial. There are rules by which any army is built, and no one is allowed to break them. The road to hell is paved with good intentions... On the Euromaidan, they also "fought for the truth"...
  50. -3
    16 November 2022 11: 48
    I was not present, so I can’t judge what happened there, and draw conclusions too.
    The fact that one bully is yelling, the other is filming (but what, you can? The phone with you is the first thing you need to wean yourself from when preparing for war).
    One thing I can say for sure: without discipline, any unit, be it
    even though all of the rambs are worthless as a combat unit. And such "people's tribunes" will most likely lead not to the attack, but vice versa.
    It is possible to break subordination in the army only in exceptional cases: to suppress direct betrayal, and then, then the tribunal will deal with it. And for all sorts of petty reasons - on trial, definitely, bloggers-hypers are not needed, another situation.
    Look how the enemy has: how many elite fighters were drowned during the landings on about. Serpentine, how many landings are on Energodar? And what, there are a lot of videos on the net with surviving special forces, where they "condemn and demand"? Or are they happy?
    But yesterday, from just anyone who was dialed, from whom they forgot to take away their phones - all the time.
    Well, who is Rambo - what, drop him alone on a parachute? With a phone to take selfies of his exploits?
    Penal companies and battalions existed not only for cowards and frightened patriots, but also for such "superpassionaries", and those who survived changed a lot in the right direction. One increased courage and confidence, the other - balance and composure. Just like in the Emerald City
    1. -3
      16 November 2022 15: 15
      Plus. The experience of previous wars showed that these bawlers are so brave only until they are thrown into battle ... And in battle they are the most unreliable soldiers
      1. 0
        17 November 2022 21: 10
        Here, a company can be formed from "strategists" and sectarians of various stripes. However, for some reason, all of them are not at the front yet ..
  51. +7
    16 November 2022 11: 51
    The officers who will go to war as commanders of these units must train and train the mobilized.
    The way the commander prepared his soldiers is how they will fight.
    If over the past eight years our officer corps had passed through the Donbass front, the Russian army would have been different, without slobbering and incompetent colonels and without thieving generals....
    1. +1
      17 November 2022 23: 41
      I passed, not completely, but the officers passed. And what????
      You’re walking through the center of Donetsk on a Friday or Saturday evening, and “Officers are Russians” is heard from the cafe into the street - it’s good that Ukrainian spies didn’t throw grenades at such a cafe.
  52. 0
    16 November 2022 11: 58
    And yet the instigators need to be severely punished and fired!
    1. +4
      16 November 2022 12: 23
      Send both the mobilized soldier and the illiterate colonel to the Wagnerites, where they will quickly knock off the soldier’s arrogance, and teach the colonel to fight....
      Double benefit!
      1. +2
        16 November 2022 23: 46
        You can’t teach this anymore, he’s already heading to the dacha with both feet - what kind of war is he going to do?
  53. -6
    16 November 2022 12: 00
    Dear authors!
    Reverence for rank is mandatory in civilian life and especially in the army. The Charter is the rules of conduct for military personnel (from privates to generals) in combat conditions. Drill training is the coordination of military personnel for joint actions. Peter I did not repeal the Charter, but spoke about its creative application. But for this, the Charter must be studied. In the army, only one official “commands” - the squad commander. The rest organize combat training and direct combat operations.
    Based on the above, I have doubts about your competence. Such articles undermine the authority of the army in conditions of war, which is unacceptable.
    1. -2
      16 November 2022 15: 05
      Respect! Charters are written in blood. And no one is allowed to violate them. I gave you a plus
      1. 0
        17 November 2022 23: 18
        His drill “toe” and “20-25cm” are especially bloody laughing
    2. +1
      17 November 2022 23: 44
      In our army, the squad leader is, in practice, demoted to the senior soldier. He has not had real power since the time of the SA.
      1. ada
        0
        19 November 2022 18: 24
        This, by the way, is a very important question. In my opinion, you are right to emphasize it. Here we need to look for a solution and it, I believe, lies mainly in the domestic political sphere, like the birthplace of “clean shoulder straps” and the like. This is, quite clearly, the result of the gap between the Army and the People.
  54. +9
    16 November 2022 12: 08
    In fact, those who are mobilized should be trained by officers and sergeants who have gone through combat operations, and not through parade crews. Then it will make sense.
    As the French did during the First World War, when officers with combat experience conducted initial training, and then the second stage of training was carried out by officers and sergeants of those units for which the reinforcements were intended.
    In the Red Army, starting in the fall of 1942, the acquisition of spare parts also began, mainly for officers and sergeants - front-line soldiers. And immediately the quality of training for marching reinforcements increased sharply.
  55. +3
    16 November 2022 12: 42
    Nothing new! History teaches nothing, it punishes cruelly!
  56. 0
    16 November 2022 12: 55
    I watched this video. At first I thought they were making a film about February 1917. But no - today. But the characters are the same - big-faced, middle-aged, tipsy RAPERS who do not want to go to the front.
    And it’s always not difficult to explain your behavior: either the German queen is a traitor, or the charter forces you to teach (and they don’t report meat to the tigers). Remember WHAT happened next in 1917?
    Order No. 1, murder of officers, COMPLETE collapse of the army........ Because non-commissioned officer Leshkov....ugh! - Kirpichnikov, who killed his company commander, was proclaimed the first St. George Knight of the Revolution. A lot of bad things happened after that.
    But then things got better, the troublemakers were dealt with: the whites shot Kirpichnikov, and Trotsky carried out the decimation. And everything went according to Feng Shui. We won both the civil war and the Patriotic War. True, for this, protesters of various ranks had to be periodically shot.
    Py.Sy. In my opinion, the regiment should be fired without a pension and the right to wear a uniform, the big-headed one should be given 5 years in the camps with transfer to Prigozhin under escort, so that he doesn’t run over to the Ukrainians, the people’s tribune is horseradish.
    1. -3
      16 November 2022 15: 08
      I agree with everything except Py.Sy. Polkan just retired. I think he coped with peacetime work. And the big-faced one is digging trenches; with such an attitude towards commanders, he is dangerous in battle. 5 years is a long time for him. A few months in the guardhouse will be enough to bring him to his senses.
    2. The comment was deleted.
  57. The comment was deleted.
  58. +3
    16 November 2022 13: 28
    Quote: Lykases1
    Well, they had the Internet - an online complaint, an appeal to the online reception of the State Duma. Something can be done. But, this shouldn't be. There is no democracy in the army, there are no elections. Well, the officer must also be held accountable. It seems that such stars are too early for him.

    Well, they would write... Do you want me to tell you what the answer will be? Nothing!
    1. 0
      17 November 2022 09: 50
      When the Mobs posted a video with rusty machine guns being issued, without swearing, threats or insults, what was the response? Nothing? or, it seems, they changed it by the evening?) No offense)
  59. +2
    16 November 2022 13: 29
    Nahhh... I’m not imposing my opinion on anyone, but it would be better if the author continued to deal exclusively with technical topics, and not with issues of relationships in military groups. For standing and hugging respected commanders does not mean at all that you yourself are so knowledgeable and understand everything... because “behind you” you only have a well-spoken tongue, and not real service and, especially, command of subordinates... often very problematic subordinates. How quickly everything fell into place for him... the presumptuous fighter suddenly became a “fighter for the truth...”, and the colonel became a grabber and a mumbler. No, dear comrades and other indignant ones! I think it's worth first investigating what, how and why? But it may turn out that the “one and a half meter” regiment, before the “special report” began, broke the alcohol from the “victim” or forbade smoking in the location? Maybe? Quite!
    If the fighter is not punished in an exemplary manner, such cases of insubordination will occur not only in the “winter quarters”, but also on the front line. I don’t agree with something, you see the shortcomings - tea, not war has been declared, no one has prohibited the possibility of contacting the relevant structures... Write, call, contact various media outlets. But not those who, in a couple of minutes and between three people, determine those who are maliciously and irrevocably guilty.
  60. +3
    16 November 2022 13: 45
    "He faces imprisonment for up to 15 years."
    I don’t know how it is now, but in the Soviet Army, the commander had to draw up a training plan and approve it with a higher commander. For example, I, as a platoon commander, could not just understand the platoon during a drill at night. The company commander - the company without approving the training and alarm plan. For each trip to the training ground, the officers drew up a preparation plan. If such alarm training was carried out without an approved plan, then this threatened the officer with liability, even criminal liability. I'll explain. During such training, soldiers can suffer, even death. Ammo, grenades, and gasoline are consumed. And this is all money. In general, Leshkov needs a good lawyer, now. Until this lieutenant colonel cleaned everything up retroactively. And second. Showdowns with officers must be carried out without witnesses. Sorry guy. And such lieutenant colonels have a rotten soul. Such people will take revenge and will not retreat. The guy needs a lawyer quickly.
    1. -7
      16 November 2022 15: 11
      Minus. The army is based not on concepts, but on discipline and unquestioning submission. And what we saw is called partisanism and Makhnovism. Remember the fate of Father Makhno...
      1. +5
        16 November 2022 17: 50
        "And what we saw,"
        We see that the officer is not fulfilling his duties to train soldiers. And he did not deny anything about the accusations against him. On the contrary, he pulled his own hands. Thus, he provoked the soldier’s assault. The officer in this conflict himself violated the statute by his incorrect behavior!
        1. +1
          17 November 2022 13: 29
          Quote: steel maker
          the officer does not fulfill his duties in training soldiers

          Exclusively from the words of the “main character” of the video.
          Quote: steel maker
          He did not deny anything to the accusations against him.

          Judging by the video, he was not allowed to get a word in edgewise.
          Quote: steel maker
          I pulled my hands myself. Thus, he provoked the soldier’s assault.

          The soldier blew smoke in the colonel's face. 20 years ago, I set a man’s mustache on fire for something like this (in civilian life) with the same swag. I didn't put it out. Just as a lesson. Despite the fact that the ratio in size was approximately the same as in the video.
      2. +1
        17 November 2022 23: 49
        An officer must have earned authority, and not the veneration prescribed by the charter. Well-deserved authority must be earned; in conscripts this is something that can be crushed unceremoniously; in the subunit of contract soldiers with an average age of 30, this is no longer the case. And the officer turns into a purely nominal boss.
    2. -1
      16 November 2022 17: 53
      You say there were platoon commanders in the service? What would you, as a platoon commander, do with such an Arkharovite? I just can’t believe that you wouldn’t have sent him to his lip!
      1. The comment was deleted.
        1. 0
          18 November 2022 14: 13
          Did the colonels run and jump TOGETHER WITH THE SOLDIERS? However! You had some dashing colonels. Probably, like Gaidar, at the age of 16 you were appointed to command a regiment?
        2. -1
          18 November 2022 18: 49
          steelmaker
          Officers and soldiers ran and shot at the training ground

          No one runs higher than the captain anymore... If the majors and colonels run around, then there will be no one to command the units. And in war, some will quickly be left without leadership...
          - In peacetime, a running major causes laughter, in wartime it causes panic
          You would also suggest to the Supreme Commander-in-Chief to “run with the soldiers” belay
          ...Oh, I shouldn't have said that laughing The regular trolls are about to attack me am
  61. 0
    16 November 2022 13: 49
    “Veteran” means “survivor” in Latin.

    veteranus
    I veterānus, a, um [vetus]
    1) old (pecus, gallina Col; hostis L)
    2) tested, experienced (miles C; exercitus L)
    legio veterana Cs - legion of veterans
    II veterānus, ī m.
    old soldier, veteran C, Sen

    Latin-Russian dictionary
  62. +2
    16 November 2022 14: 26
    Mobs, and if this is demobilization, will they become not demobilizers but dobiks? Previously, those called up from the reserve were called partisans, collective farmers, reserve workers, personnel officers, beards, well, even militias, and mobs are like bobbies, it’s better then partisans or militia
  63. The comment was deleted.
    1. -1
      16 November 2022 15: 13
      These are not boys, but military personnel, and they are in the army, not at the market
      1. +3
        16 November 2022 17: 39
        "These are not boys, but military personnel,"
        If you served, you should know that the boss is to blame for everything! The regulations for officers are also regulations. The officers, with their criminal behavior, brought the soldiers to the point of “rebellion.” Did the soldiers refuse to carry out the order? No! Are they making the wrong claims? No! If the order is carried out in the army, then everything else is 50/50. The officer is also subject to trial!
        1. 0
          16 November 2022 19: 37
          steelmaker
          If you served, you should know that the boss is to blame for everything! The regulations for officers are also regulations

          Somehow you are talking like someone who has not served. Statutes, including Disciplinary charter (DU), are mandatory for all military personnel, regardless of rank. This situation is described in Remote control, and is violation of military discipline. In Remote control Responsibility for such violations is clearly defined. It also clearly defines the procedure for filing appeals by military personnel. I posted a snippet of it in this thread. Read it. Everything is clear and transparent. The officer, by the way, also violated the regulations by not using the power and authority given to him to suppress the disciplinary violation
      2. 0
        16 November 2022 23: 04
        Quote: futurohunter
        These are not boys, but military personnel, and they are in the army, not at the market

        So this is not an army, but a bazaar. Where human lives are traded. The entire SVO is continuous trade. Ordinary people are dying, and behind them there is blood trading and agreements.
  64. The comment was deleted.
    1. +3
      16 November 2022 15: 20
      Directly or through the prosecutor's office? By the way, you can’t say that in civilian life he was characterized positively.

      1. -2
        16 November 2022 17: 39
        I hope that after such a characterization there will be no more “defenders” for the scoundrel?
      2. -1
        16 November 2022 18: 22
        You can’t say that in civilian life he was characterized positively.

        This document means nothing without context. Maybe the “verbal conflict” began with an attempt by a strangulation woman to kill this man’s wife? At one time I could barely restrain myself when a PGM patient almost killed my wife.
        1. +1
          17 November 2022 11: 17
          Do you think that this “master of sports” could not otherwise resolve the issue with a very elderly woman, his mother? And the writ of execution seems to hint at a relationship with his wife. And - you restrained yourself...
  65. The comment was deleted.
    1. +2
      16 November 2022 21: 55
      A typical worn-out officer who whiles away the time until retirement with drill training and reading the regulations. He is not capable of full-fledged combat command due to the loss of relevant qualities.
  66. +2
    16 November 2022 15: 24
    Well, this is not a riot, not a rebellion or an uprising. The mobs (in the sense of partially mobilized) are simply dissatisfied with the quality of military training, that’s all.
    By the way, in other units, soldiers expressed similar dissatisfaction against rusty machine guns, insufficient equipment, garbage food, living conditions, non-payment of money, etc. Nobody openly opposes the war. No one is putting forward political demands, a change of power, or the like. So these phenomena qualify as “sabotage” - careless performance of one’s official duties or a complete refusal to do so. Analogous to the Italian strike. At this stage of development of civil society, there can be no uprisings or riots. From a formal point of view, even such protests “out of patriotic motives” undermine the vital forces of the ruling regime. The trouble has begun - in a year, these survivors of the Ukrainian meat grinder will begin to organize real riots with the massacre of commanders under the slogans “Down with the war! Down with the autocracy!”
  67. +1
    16 November 2022 15: 25
    It's like if wrestlers or football players were training to walk in formation. And during the entire time they hit the ball 30 times.
    1. ada
      0
      16 November 2022 17: 35
      What if sports, having had enough of the sphere-like boot, enter the field without knowing the rules and without listening to the coach? wassat
      1. +1
        16 November 2022 19: 52
        The coach only has a title, and no merit in the matter, he has not won a single real fight, he allowed the ball to be hit 30 times, but he receives a salary. A wonderful sinecure.
        1. ada
          +2
          17 November 2022 11: 04
          No, no! I’m not interested in fairy tales on “football” themes, I’ve listened to all the variants - the source of them all is the same - fear, all other external manifestations are variations on a more malleable theme at the moment, such as “wormy meat” or “bad treatment”, depending on the degree of arrogance, cowardice, phlegmaticity and other ways of adapting the organism to external coercion in a situation of military service - to him - it's not good to die young wassat , that’s where the internal ugliness kicks in and comes out.
          There is no particularly visible idea in the eyes that leads people to heroic deeds, you don’t have to be a visionary, and it’s not the Red Army, not even the SA, but the population is in line for bourgeoisie.
          Usually, having cooled down in such conditions, everyone else calmly continues to live and work, and when the troublemaker is a truth-teller, he “gets lost” somewhere along the way wassat , then they are not so proud of it, but more often they breathe a sigh of relief, because war is something else Yes
  68. +3
    16 November 2022 15: 38
    Leshkov is certainly not an angel, but it’s definitely not worth burying a brave man like that. The lieutenant colonel is like a piece of paper, they waste their assigned tasks.
    Leshkov could have been punished without a criminal offense, here the paper candy wrappers were clearly raised for the honor of their paper uniform. And this underground group should be sent to the Zaporozhye direction as privates.
    1. 0
      16 November 2022 17: 50
      Leshkov had a criminal record hanging on him even before the army. See above.
      Have you served in the army yourself?
  69. The comment was deleted.
  70. -2
    16 November 2022 16: 25
    For everyone who has a sore throat and wants to gag, I remind you of the old military rule: "Learn the rules and your throat won't hurt!"

    I'm posting fragments Disciplinary Charter of the Armed Forces of the Russian Federation. It has 57 pages, and if anyone still has questions, read this document - it has all the answers you need!
    I suggest to all doubters (including the authors of the article!) to read excerpts from the document and close the stupid discussion.
    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Disciplinary Charter of the Armed Forces of the Russian Federation (approved by Decree of the President of the Russian Federation of November 10, 2007 N 1495)
    This Charter defines the essence of military discipline, the responsibilities of military personnel to comply with it, types of incentives and disciplinary sanctions, the rights of commanders (superiors) to apply them, as well as the procedure for submitting and considering appeals (proposals, applications and complaints).
    The disciplinary regulations govern military personnel of military command and control bodies, military units, ships, enterprises, organizations of the Armed Forces of the Russian Federation, including military educational institutions of professional education of the Ministry of Defense of the Russian Federation (hereinafter referred to as military units).

    Chapter 1. General provisions
    1. Military discipline is strict and precise observance by all military personnel of the order and rules established by the laws of the Russian Federation, general military regulations of the Armed Forces of the Russian Federation (hereinafter referred to as general military regulations) and orders of commanders (chiefs).
    2. Military discipline is based on each serviceman’s awareness of military duty and personal responsibility for the defense of the Russian Federation. It is built on a legal basis, respect for the honor and dignity of military personnel.
    The main method of instilling discipline in military personnel is persuasion. However, this does not exclude the possibility of using coercive measures against those who are dishonest in fulfilling their military duty.
    3. Military discipline obliges every soldier:
    ...
    - show respect to commanders (superiors) and each other, observe the rules of military greeting and military courtesy
    ...
    7. The commander (chief) must know the needs and requests of subordinates, seek their satisfaction, avoid rudeness and humiliation of the personal dignity of subordinates, serve as an example of strict compliance with the laws of the Russian Federation, other regulatory legal acts of the Russian Federation and the requirements of general military regulations, be an example of morality and honesty , modesty and fairness.
    8. The activities of the commander (chief) in maintaining military discipline are assessed ... by the full and effective use of his disciplinary power and the performance of his duties in order to establish internal order and timely prevent violations of military discipline. Not a single violator of military discipline should escape responsibility, but not a single innocent person should be punished.
    A commander (chief) who has not provided the necessary conditions for observing the statutory order and requirements of military discipline, who has not taken measures to restore them, is responsible for this.
    ...
    Each serviceman is obliged to assist the commander (chief) in restoring order and maintaining military discipline. A serviceman bears responsibility for evading assistance to the commander (superior).
    9. The right of the commander (chief) to give the order and the duty of the subordinate to obey implicitly are the basic principles of unity of command.
    In the event of open disobedience or resistance of a subordinate, the commander (chief) is obliged to take all coercive measures established by the laws of the Russian Federation and general military regulations, up to and including detaining and bringing the offender to justice as provided for by the legislation of the Russian Federation, in order to restore order and military discipline.
    ...
    Chapter 6. About appeals (proposals, statements or complaints)
    ...
    106. Military personnel have the right to apply in person, as well as send written appeals (proposals, statements or complaints) to state bodies, local government bodies and officials in the manner prescribed by the laws of the Russian Federation, other regulatory legal acts of the Russian Federation and this Charter.
    A serviceman who becomes aware of facts of theft or damage to military property, illegal spending of funds, abuses, deficiencies in the maintenance of weapons and military equipment, or other facts of damage to the Armed Forces of the Russian Federation, is obliged to report this to his immediate commander (chief), and also send a written appeal (proposal) to eliminate these shortcomings or a statement (complaint) to a higher commander (chief).
    Written appeals sent to military personnel and military unit officials are presented in the form of a report.
    ...
    108. A serviceman files a complaint against illegal actions (inaction) of a commander (superior) or other military personnel, a violation of the rights and freedoms established by the laws of the Russian Federation, dissatisfaction with his required types of allowance to the immediate commander (superior) of the person whose actions he is appealing, and if the person filing the complaint does not know through whose fault his rights were violated, the complaint is filed on command.
    The serviceman who submitted the appeal (proposal, application or complaint) is not exempted from carrying out orders and his official and special duties.
    ...
    110. It is prohibited to submit an appeal (proposal, statement or complaint) while on combat duty (combat service), while in service (with the exception of appeals (proposals, statements or complaints) submitted during a survey of military personnel), on guard, on watch, as well as in a different outfit and in classes.
    ...
    113. Personal reception of military personnel in military units is carried out by the commander of the military unit and his deputies.
    Information about the place of reception, as well as the days and hours established for reception, is brought to the attention of military personnel in the prescribed manner.
    ...
    116. All appeals (proposals, statements or complaints) are subject to mandatory consideration within 30 days from the date of registration.
    1. -2
      16 November 2022 17: 44
      I was waiting for a reaction. Downvoted. It’s funny... Oh, they don’t like discipline on this forum and site... It seems to me that none of those who downvoted read the disciplinary regulations... Even the excerpts that I cited. Moreover, probably none of the “truth tellers” served in the army... Of the “minusers” - definitely none
      1. +2
        16 November 2022 21: 31
        Disciplinary regulations and other paperwork up to one place from the moment the serviceman receives a weapon. You can recite it by heart with feeling and precision. They won't even bother. And then the war will write off everything.
        In the trenches under fire, even atheists are translated,
        1. -2
          17 November 2022 00: 12
          barbos (Hoshe)
          Disciplinary regulations and other paperwork up to one place from the moment the serviceman receives a weapon.

          I take it you don't read anything at all? Can't spell the word "waste paper" without mistakes? Then, of course, you won’t be able to cope with the regulations. Designed for competent and intelligent soldiers...
          And it is precisely for this reason that all kinds of psychopaths and criminal elements (this character) should not be allowed to wield weapons.

          And then the war will write off everything. In the trenches under fire

          You forget that in war, commanders also receive special powers - according to the laws of war. And the commander has every right to shoot a soldier who does not follow the order.
          And such a “hero” is worse than a “petal” mine that flew into a trench
    2. 0
      16 November 2022 17: 56
      And to what percentage does reality correspond to this scripture?
      1. -5
        16 November 2022 18: 24
        Why this question? Laws are binding on everyone!
        1. 0
          16 November 2022 19: 07
          I would like to understand the real state of affairs in the Russian army and how comparable its level is to the enemy’s level.
        2. +1
          16 November 2022 21: 43
          There are laws of nature. These are real laws that are fundamental in nature; we can study them with the help of science and use them to describe the surrounding reality. They do not change over billions of years and do not depend on location - there is not one gravity of the Earth during the day and another at night. This is the difference from the army, where during the day there is something like a regulation, and at night it’s every man for himself.
          And all these charters and regulations are scribblings that have nothing to do with reality. Manifestation of bureaucracy and bureaucracy in military affairs. Want to check it out for yourself? It’s very easy - go to the SVO zone on the front line and there check the effect of the regulations on your own skin.
          1. -4
            17 November 2022 00: 06
            barbos
            all these charters and regulations are scribblings that have no basis in reality

            It is immediately obvious that they did not serve and did not read the regulations. So read it! “I haven’t read Rembrandt, but I have an opinion!”
            The regulations were written in the blood of dead soldiers!
  71. +1
    16 November 2022 16: 27
    A little off topic. But let's say, parades from the point of view of the average person. Agree that we watch them mainly for the sake of military equipment and the aviation component. And the number of marching soldiers can be reduced significantly.
    1. 0
      18 November 2022 18: 18
      Agree that we watch them mainly for the sake of military equipment and the aviation component. And the number of marching soldiers can be reduced significantly.
      You can even transport equipped mannequins on the platform. The same thing will happen.
  72. +4
    16 November 2022 17: 01
    Of course, no one should have pushed each other, but!!! What kind of idiots in the army treat mobilized people like objects!! People go to fight, including for these non-war veterans from the rear, but they allow themselves to treat people and the country this way!!!
  73. The comment was deleted.
  74. +3
    16 November 2022 17: 22
    Quote: Aerodrome
    in vain Leshkov touched Polkan with his hands

    You can understand the soldier. This is not the first day he has been there and, apparently, this is not the first time he has asked such questions. And in response he receives mooing and bleating. And the time allotted for preparation is inexorably running out. So he flared up. Thanks to this assault, this story will receive the resonance it deserves. His first performance did not have much effect.
    1. -4
      16 November 2022 17: 46
      This "soldier" is a simple criminal... nothing more. Read the messages above
  75. The comment was deleted.
    1. The comment was deleted.
      1. +3
        16 November 2022 19: 02
        bully Great human mercy, that explained. Otherwise, you would have decided that you doubted my mental abilities. Srochka-school-GSVG-south-ZabVO-reserve. Normal adaptation in civilian life. Something like this.
        1. -3
          16 November 2022 19: 40
          And if you served, then why do you deny the need for military discipline?
          1. 0
            16 November 2022 19: 50
            Not at all. The “Decembrist” should be called to order, but the lieutenant colonel should also be stroked. Let him be engaged in combat training of people who will soon fight, and not present a ceremonial box.
  76. +4
    16 November 2022 17: 32
    I apologize, but for some reason the author believes that there are only regulations for garrison and guard service? In fact, the charter is the thing by which they learn to fight.
    We all saw at the beginning of a special operation how tanks or artillery pieces were lined up in an open field. Although the regulations contain clear recommendations on how this should be done in a combat situation.
    1. -3
      16 November 2022 17: 42
      And the disciplinary regulations too. Everyone who joined the ranks of the Armed Forces accepted the obligation to comply with all regulations. These are the laws by which the armed forces live. "In civilian life" violation of laws is punishable. "At the military camp" - even more so
  77. +3
    16 November 2022 17: 47
    The fish rots from the head, and that's it. You can just look where the commander lives and everything is immediately clear. I think the company commander of that private woke up in the morning and went to his unit and sat lazily thinking about what he could do today so that his superiors wouldn’t pester him and he wouldn’t get tired. So it was and still is.
  78. The comment was deleted.
    1. -3
      16 November 2022 18: 23
      NATO member? NATO member? NATO member? NATO member?
      1. 0
        16 November 2022 18: 35
        Why did the Russian tsars recruit foreigners from Europe to serve?
    2. 0
      16 November 2022 20: 03
      Vladimir
      can use the methods of training the armies of advanced NATO countries?

      NATO? Well... If you please.
      Alvaro Prendez Quintana. Military pilot. Memories
      Excerpts from the book
      I didn't believe my eyes. I am in the United States, in the US Air Force, to become a jet pilot.
      Corporal Williamson was already waiting for us outside. We were worried - it was our first formation. Fat Williamson's voice was muffled and weak. It was rather the cry of a civilian trying to imitate the commanding voice of the military:
      - Attention!
      It immediately became clear that this type was one of the recruits, and, moreover, one of the bad ones ... He spoke poor English, did not know how to stand correctly on the command “Attention”. In broken English, Williamson continued:
      - Guys, you are now in the US Air Force. We know that you come from different countries, each of you has your own customs and habits. Here you must forget all this and quickly adapt to our conditions. The faster you do this, the sooner you will feel like real American cadets and the more successfully you will graduate from flight school. You should know that the best pilots in the world are trained here... I understand discipline is a difficult thing... But if you make an effort, you will achieve your goal.
      It was already too much! A simple martinet, without a military bearing, unable to give a command ... In addition, flat-footed (that's what we called him from the moment he appeared in the barracks).
      Williamson continued:
      - Guys! Now we will learn the most elementary techniques in drill so that you can walk at least a little like a military man.
      Suddenly, from the depths of the formation, from somewhere behind me, a mocking voice was heard. I immediately recognized it: it belonged to cadet Monson, the youngest in our group.
      - He is not a Cuban who does not leave the line! ...
      It was highly incorrect, even like disobedience. In my imagination, the possible consequences of this misconduct flashed with dizzying speed ...
      Anger seized me. This American recruit doesn't even know how to give commands! And there is no need to talk about the attitude towards us! One word - Flatfoot. This is complete disrespect for the Cuban group! So humiliate people!…
      We, all eight Cubans, indignant, went to the barracks.
      Early one morning, after getting up, an American came to us, who spoke Spanish well. Smiling broadly, he invited us to the office of Lieutenant Garrison, who was in charge of the PVVP group living in our barracks, at eight o'clock. We calmed down, smiles appeared on our faces. Finally, justice will prevail, we decided. Each of us from the very beginning believed that it would be so.
      For several minutes we stood at attention in front of the man sitting at the table, but we could not make out his face, because he, hiding from us with a magazine, read or pretended to be busy reading. Finally he put down his magazine and stood up. He began the conversation slowly, making long pauses. Not a single muscle moved in his face.
      - As I learned, yesterday the Cubans left the ranks without permission.
      The lieutenant patiently listened to each of us. We, with dignity, asked him to enter into our position. Not a single muscle twitched in his face, and it was impossible to guess what he was thinking.
      - I understand. The discipline is tough here, and you're not used to it. But you must learn to be real soldiers in order to become officers in the future .. - There is one thing for you, follow me!
      “This is a real officer,” I thought, barely hiding my joy. We finally got justice! It couldn't be otherwise. Like in American movies that always end well. Many paths open before the hero, he will always be appreciated with justice and dignity ... Such is Lieutenant Harrison. He perfectly understood that we, having a sense of our own dignity, could not allow such bullying against us ... "
      ... The untouched whiteness of the walls of the room seemed transparent ... We saw a toilet bowl in which water was seething ... It was a toilet room at the office of Lieutenant Harrison. Nodding in the direction of the toilet, the lieutenant said without embarrassment:
      There are ten such toilets in this building. There are dirtier ones... I'll give you two hours. Put everything in order.
  79. +1
    16 November 2022 18: 33
    True, in the video we see a creepy guy, who gets into trouble with the commander and talks some kind of nonsense. But that doesn't matter, does it? It’s important to scream louder for the glory of the hype... And you misspelled: not leadership qualities, there should be a “p” there.
  80. +4
    16 November 2022 18: 35
    Quote: Micha456
    drill training and yelling at the same time marching songs so that the windows in the barracks trembled ,, wassat are a good form of physical training in a sparing mode, especially for people who have just come from civilian life - tested on themselves / / passed two kmb, combatant for six hours every other day, but when the real races of ten kilometers began, and weekly marches of 30 km, I realized that this is not so much nonsense and all this drill / /

    Preparation time is limited and if you spend it on combat, it will have to be taken away from something else. By the way, a small hint: in the Israeli army there is no drill training at all. That does not prevent it from being one of the most effective armies in the world.
  81. +1
    16 November 2022 18: 40
    Apparently the command believes that the front line will teach everything, and teaching old people outside the front is just a waste of time, which is why they treat this process with traditional indifference.
  82. +4
    16 November 2022 18: 50
    Quote: TatarinSSSR
    Since when did the trio of authors of this article imagine themselves to be super professional military experts and gods of subordinate-commander dispute resolution?

    Who is the pro in this matter? Those who brought the army to its current shameful state?
  83. 0
    16 November 2022 18: 51
    The writing, although there are glimmers of sensible thoughts in it, is vile in its essence. And the manner of presentation is completely nauseating. The author clearly did not serve, confuses ranks and positions, and therefore hides behind certain officers. I don’t know anything about them, so I won’t get dirty. Roma initially divides the audience into those who disagree with him and those who are happy that the army in this episode is not an army. Comrade lieutenant colonel (not gentleman, as a group of citizens writes) by and large really doesn’t give a damn what one of the “men + 40” was doing a month ago. They are military personnel with all that it implies. Those who try to bully in the army will face a sad fate. These are the rules here and they shouldn’t change them. Masters of sports should not be sent to the zone, but to the headquarters. About two years. This period of service is not counted, and when he returns from there he will be completely different. And he will be happy to carry BC to “Hyacinth” running from dawn until dinner.
  84. Ed
    +1
    16 November 2022 18: 52
    People want to know what they are fighting for. For currency hidden in the west or for your homeland
  85. +2
    16 November 2022 19: 18
    Quote: bk316
    A SOLDIER CANNOT RAISED VOICE AGAINST THE COLONEL.

    It is very good that this issue has begun to be resolved here. Not at the front. There, Mr. (and this is not a gentleman) will simply catch the bullet with his back. And the whole conversation. A combat army and a combat army are two completely different organizations. They work differently. And they cannot instantly turn into one another.
  86. -1
    16 November 2022 19: 56
    I propose arresting Leshkov for three days with detention in a guardhouse (or something similar) for an attempt battery against a boss (pushed!), three days for an attempt insults by a subordinate to a superior, and after serving his sentence, appoint him as a squad commander or deputy platoon commander with the assignment of a rank and skin him three times for his service. It will make an excellent ZKV. The colonel is honorably retired, for he has lost face.
  87. +2
    16 November 2022 20: 02
    Before condemning a lieutenant colonel, it would be good to find out what he did before (maybe he served the ZAS all his life, and then he was given personnel - train him) and where he is a lieutenant colonel (maybe he is from the FSO).
    He faces imprisonment for up to 15 years.
    Well, let the prosecutor now go into the trenches.
  88. The comment was deleted.
  89. 0
    16 November 2022 21: 25
    How can drill training help combat even in peacetime? How will striking a step and screaming songs improve shooting accuracy, improve skills in handling equipment, proper first aid, and much more that is vital in battle? Can anyone tell me whether drill training was included in the training for those mobilized during the Second World War? Or did people still understand that doing such things could lead to a heart-to-heart conversation with the NKVD?
    Even in peacetime, drill training must be viewed as an activity aimed at undermining combat readiness. Let the honor guard deal with this nonsense. When digging a trench under fire, the ability to pull your leg will not help at all.
    Reading the regulations is akin to boxing by correspondence: you can learn the name of the blows, how they are thrown and where, but the first fight will show the stupidity of this approach. I don't remember athletes who trained from books. They have been developing technique and skills in gyms for years.
  90. -5
    16 November 2022 21: 43
    Another riot recorded on video is shaking the Internet.


    another reason in favor of the transition to a fully professional contract army of sufficient numbers.
    And rebels like Alexander Leshkov need to be sent for re-education to the WAGNER PMC and there he will have everything, regulations and a lot of ammunition, and at the same time it may come to the conclusion that the army below him is obliged to carry out the orders of his superior.
  91. +2
    16 November 2022 21: 53
    Without this, it is clear that it is necessary to teach what is necessary in war, but this in no way justifies the bullying of personnel.
  92. +1
    16 November 2022 21: 57
    Throw away grenades

    Deflect Hymars projectiles with your hands laughing
  93. -1
    16 November 2022 23: 07
    Dear author, during the revolution, decomposition and other soldier comets began in the army, complete disobedience to officers. And this is among people who served for decades, although there were plenty of mobs. Then, at the beginning of the Second World War, career officers and soldiers retreated relentlessly all the way to Moscow and Stalingrad. And only then, when the cadre army was almost entirely replaced by yesterday’s tractor drivers and mechanics, victories began. Don’t you think that in Russia for centuries the way of educating army personnel has been fundamentally wrong?
  94. 0
    16 November 2022 23: 14
    You guys, Russians, are in a mess. Let's not go into the guilt of the mobilized for a long time - it exists, and it will be classified, and the warrior will be punished. But your officers, in particular the one in the picture, how did he organize and manage the process of training people who, very likely, will soon go into battle? What is the direct interest of the state and your Supreme Commander in the preparation of the mobilized - to prepare soldiers for combat operations in a short time, and the soldiers must show themselves as effectively as possible. And this means, simply put, to kill the maximum number of enemies, with minimal ammunition consumption and minimal losses. Based on this, training is organized, and not “combat training is an element of smoothing out units...”. This is in the wars of the 18-19 centuries, when linear tactics were used, the unit entered the battle in a single formation, etc. etc. drill training, like developing the skills of moving in step and without breaking formation, was necessary and understandable from the point of view of that military paradigm. And now - we can get by. It would be better to work out the standards for tactical and special training, actions during combat by a squad, platoon, company in modern defensive combat, etc., etc. And who checked and approved this “colonel’s” training plans for those mobilized? It would also be possible to check the handwritten notes from the unit officers. And judging by what’s going on there, notes would be useful for many. And who compiled the schedule of combat training classes, who checked them? Where is the control and directing activity of the Main Directorate for Combat Training of the General Staff of the Moscow Region? In 2014, I had to take part in the KShMU with the acceptance of personnel and the deployment of personnel units. So before this, they had the leadership of these units and on the availability of mat. provision, and on issues of organizing classes with the mobilized (schedule of classes, plans, notes, etc.). And although the country was not going to fight, there was no place for drill training in the class schedule then. But engineering, fire, SP, TSP, VMP... And it turns out that the officer is sabotaging the execution of the Supreme Commander’s order, because he is doing a terrible job of preparing the personnel entrusted to him to carry out a combat mission? In peacetime conditions, one could say that he was simply performing his official duties poorly (for commanders of all ranks are obliged to train and educate their personnel, organize and conduct combat training classes, etc.). What is this in non-peaceful times? Sabotage? Betrayal?
    1. ada
      0
      17 November 2022 17: 48
      Quote: antony841
      You're a mess...

      - that’s how we’re supposed to do it (national pastime) Yes )
      Quote: antony841
      ... there was no place for drill training in the class schedule then. ...

      Well, judging by your text, we are talking about the preparation of combat training classes during the period of combat coordination of HF units according to the Soviet school. Here you need to know the staff in order to accurately understand the process of combat training during the formation of a unit. For parts of the cadre, the training of reserve officers began before the reception of the main replenishment, and to restore knowledge during individual - single training for l / s, an increased stage of BS or a separate training period was used, followed by their combination. Restoring and updating the knowledge of rukdocs, starting with the regulations, is mandatory.
      To talk about drill training, you need to know the BP Program for the BS period, where the methodology will indicate the method, method and order of conducting classes, including general military disciplines and other features. I believe that you were supposed to plan the conduct of drill, physical and other subjects and types of training using methods and methods of combining and accompanying training against the background of classes in general training, technical training, special training. and T-SpP during training, exercises, movements and formations at each stage of the BS, and political, educational, social work and all types of information - during breaks between classes and at rest stops. There might not have been a separate division in the class schedule, but in the plan of work activities, training, or lesson plan, it should have been.
      Quote: antony841
      Where is the control and directing activity of the Main Directorate for Combat Training of the General Staff of the Moscow Region?

      Interesting writing. I've already seen it somewhere winked
      Quote: antony841
      In 2014 ... . And although the country was not going to fight - ...
      I don’t know of a country that uses the specific abbreviations you mentioned above - SP, TSP, VMP and did not intend to fight, either earlier or later than the specified period, I believe - there is no such thing wassat , in particular in the Eastern strategic direction (for the Russian Federation).
      I'm sorry, but are you interested in NATA?
    2. 0
      18 November 2022 18: 33
      What is this in non-peaceful times? Sabotage? Betrayal?
      It turns out that the soldier is still wrong? Instead of shouting and pushing, the colonel should have been calmly taken out in front of the line, and shot for sabotage and betrayal.
  95. 0
    16 November 2022 23: 44
    In any unit it depends on the officer, his brains and will. The colonel may have never worked with a l/s without even understanding how to communicate in this situation.
  96. The comment was deleted.
  97. 0
    17 November 2022 00: 46
    I read the comments here...
    And I got the sad impression that most of those who wrote here (all “defenders of mobik” for sure, and the authors of the opus that was discussed) only hung on their shoulder straps and have no idea about military service. But what can we take from the armchair troops?
    1. -2
      17 November 2022 01: 18
      Relax, Tsipso tried his best, and today is their day off...
  98. +1
    17 November 2022 02: 22
    To discuss similar problems with the rank and file in the army, a political officer (commissar) is needed
  99. 0
    17 November 2022 06: 30
    Combat training was inherited by the RF Armed Forces from the Soviet Army, which in turn was inherited from the Red Army, which borrowed it from the Russian Imperial Army, when the life of a military unit on the battlefield depended on the clarity and coherence of formations.
    In a modern war, it is much more important to possess the skills that will allow soldiers and officers to return home alive, so the regulations and drill training as part of the traditional course of a young soldier are best left for conscripts. The training of mobilized citizens should be carried out exclusively by commanders with experience in modern combat operations.
    1. +3
      17 November 2022 07: 05
      I got it, including the section of the drill regulations “Methods of movement in battle”. Maybe this drill guy didn’t want to do #mastersports#.
    2. 0
      17 November 2022 09: 43
      Nik2002 (Nikolai)
      Combat training was inherited by the RF Armed Forces from the Soviet Army, which in turn passed on from the Red Army, which borrowed it from the Russian Imperial Army

      Have you ever wondered why this happened? Why did the Red Army, which got rid of the “remnants of the bourgeois past,” suddenly return them all? And why do other armies have it?
      Charters are specific recommendations, instructions to military personnel on what to do in different situations. Including the Guard Regulations, on how to protect the territory of the unit’s deployment, and the Combat Regulations, on how to conduct military operations. All armies have such documents.
      And it is precisely violations of the recommendations of such charters that usually lead to combat losses
    3. -1
      17 November 2022 10: 00
      Nik2002
      Combat training was inherited by the RF Armed Forces from the Soviet Army, which in turn was inherited from the Red Army

      IN AND. Lenin considered Soviet military discipline to be a qualitatively new, higher type of discipline; he constantly pointed out that there must be strict, iron discipline in the army, ensuring unity of will and action, subordination, and diligence, without which it is impossible to achieve victory over the enemy. Unlike bourgeois armies, where discipline is built on the basis of deception, bribery, and coercion, the Soviet Army creates “unprecedentedly firm discipline, not under pressure, but on the basis of consciousness, devotion, and self-sacrifice of the workers and peasants themselves.” He considered the high political consciousness of the soldiers of the army and navy to be the unshakable basis of Soviet military discipline, and in this V.I. Lenin saw the most important source of strength of the socialist state, the cohesion and organization of its Armed Forces.
      M.V. Frunze pointed out the direct dependence of the internal structure, organization and discipline of the army on the political and economic system of the state, on the nature of the new relationships between the classes of socialist society. Revealing the essence and significance of Soviet military discipline, he noted that the strength of the army is in discipline, which is based not on fear of punishment and naked coercion, but on the conscientious conscious performance by everyone of their official duty.
      The strengthening of military discipline was greatly facilitated by the Disciplinary Charter of the Red Army, adopted in January 1919. It stated that in the socialist army, in the army of the working people, there should be “no place for careless, vicious, parasites.” Discipline in the Red Army is based not on the fear of punishment and the desire for rewards, but on consciousness, on the trust of subordinates in their superiors and the superiors in their subordinates. A disciplined warrior conscientiously fulfills all the laws of the socialist republic, his official duties, and the orders of his superiors
  100. 0
    17 November 2022 06: 56
    Quote: Ingvar 72
    These 30 pieces of silver will come back to haunt you.

    More precisely for us. For all of us.