Military Review

In a battle with God's name on the lips ...

240
Surprisingly, it was not the Soviet party leadership that officially announced the beginning of World War II, but ... the clergyman, none other than the Patriarchal Locum tenens of the Russian Orthodox Church, Metropolitan of Moscow Sergius (Old Town).

22 Day June 1941 was not an ordinary day for the church. On it fell the feast of All Saints, in the Russian land shone. Metropolitan Sergius, who finished the Sunday liturgy, wanted to start serving prayer when one of his assistants informed Sergius about the German attack. The Metropolitan immediately announced the treacherous fascist attack to the parishioners of the church. A little later, he personally printed the text of the sermon "The Message to the Shepherds and the Flock of the Orthodox Church of Christ" and ordered to send it to those parishes that were not closed yet, with instructions to read the sermon from the pulpit.

In a battle with God's name on the lips ...
Priest Dmitry Orlovsky blesses the Soviet fighters before the fight. Oryol direction, 1943 year


“Fascist robbers attacked our homeland. Trampling all sorts of treaties and promises, they suddenly fell upon us, and now the blood of civilians is irrigating their native land. The times of Batu, German knights, Charles of Sweden, Napoleon are repeated. The pitiful descendants of the enemies of Orthodox Christianity want to try again to put our people on our knees in front of a lie. But it is not the first time that the Russian people have to endure such trials. With God's help, and this time he will dispel the fascist enemy force ... Our Orthodox Church has always shared the fate of the people. Together with him she carried tests and was comforted by his successes. She will not leave her people now. She blesses with heavenly blessing and the upcoming nationwide feat ... ”- such heartfelt words were in this sermon by Sergius, and they could not leave anyone in the world indifferent.

JV Stalin addressed the people with a general civil speech only on July 3 of the year 1941, and a strange thing - in his speech sounded the appeal "Brothers and Sisters", a message characteristic of traditional Christian practice. What made Stalin include such a turn in his speech, and did it not mean that after many years of persecution of the Russian Orthodox Church, the Bolshevik government decided to turn back to face the Russian faith?

The relations of the Russian Orthodox Church with the Bolshevik state were really complicated. Almost immediately after the October Revolution, in December 1917, the new Bolshevik government adopted a series of acts that effectively abolished the church as a state institution. At the beginning of 1918, a decree is issued, according to which the state stops financing the church, and military confessors were also abolished.

Finally, a separate decree of the Russian Orthodox Church was separated from the state, deprived of legal rights and property rights. At the same time, the Bolsheviks openly took a course on the ideological eradication of religious and theological dogma from the consciousness of the Russian people, of losing religious and Orthodox traditions to oblivion.

The patriarch of the Russian Orthodox Church at that time was Tikhon, who, not wanting to intensify the split in society, took a neutral position, however, the Bolsheviks did not like the position of the patriarch in a growing ideological confrontation. An acute conflict between the Bolsheviks and the church occurred in the 1922 year, during the seizure of material and religious values ​​from the ROC. In the course of the rising gale of discontent among the clergymen, many criminal cases were instigated, including against Tikhon, who issued an appeal against the seizure of the church’s wealth by the authorities.
After Tikhon’s death in 1925, the head of the Russian Church’s administration (and the bearer of the title of Deputy Patriarchal Locum Tenens) became Metropolitan Sergiy of Nizhny Novgorod (Old Town), who continued to search for a compromise between the Soviet government and the Russian church. Attempts to it, however, were not crowned with success. The Synod, headed by Sergius, never received official status and was forced to self-destruct. In 30, the arrests of priests and the destruction of church buildings continued with a vengeance: only in 1937, about 8 of thousands of churches were closed, 70 dioceses, and many clerics were arrested and repressed.

The commander of the 5 of the Leningrad partisan brigade, Hero of the Soviet Union KD Karitsky attaches the medal "Part II of the Patriotic War of the Patriotic War" to the priest of the church in the Pskov village of Khokhlov Gorki, Porkhovsky district, Fyodor Puzanov.
During the war years, Fedor Andreevich Puzanov became a scout of the 5 of the partisan brigade. George Knight of the First World War and a modest rural carpenter in 30-s, taking advantage of the relative freedom of movement allowed by the occupants as a priest of a rural parish, carried out reconnaissance work, supplied the partisans with bread and clothing, and reported on the movements of the Germans. In addition, he led conversations with believers and, moving from village to village, acquainted residents with the situation in the country and at the front.
During the German evacuation of the population of the Pskov region in January 1944, Priest Puzanov was to accompany his arrival at the place of loading into the train. The Germans were accompanying the column of villagers, but after passing 15 kilometers, the Germans turned aside, ordering the priest, on pain of death, to bring the column himself. When the Germans fled, Puzanov invited the villagers to return home, which they willingly did. The commander of the 5 partisan brigade, KD Karitsky himself attached a medal to the “Partisan of the Patriotic War” to the hero’s chest.


Despite the fact that by 1939, the structure of the Russian Orthodox Church was almost completely destroyed, it became clear that the course taken by the Soviet authorities to completely eradicate religion from the life of society is impossible. In the absence of accurate statistical data, one can nevertheless roughly indicate that by the beginning of the Great Patriotic War on the territory of the USSR (largely due to the extensive territories of the Baltic States, Western Ukraine and Western Belarus joined in 1939, with its extensive structure of parishes and dioceses, church schools etc.) operated around 3732 temples of all religious denominations, and the number of clergy was approximately 5665 people.

Awareness of the scale of the country's remaining religious structures and the influence of religion on the minds of ordinary people made the Bolsheviks somewhat weaken the repressive measures against the Russian Orthodox Church before the war. There is also a possibility that Stalin, who foresaw the war with Germany, suggested in advance that the church could be used as an additional ideological ally to rally the people against the common enemy. Hence, his truly brilliant appeal - “Brothers and Sisters”, which came to the very tragic moment of the start of the war ...

Nevertheless, real progress towards the formalization of the status of the Russian church in the USSR occurred later. 4 September 1943 held a meeting of Stalin with Patriarch Locum tenens Sergius and metropolitans - Leningrad Alexy (Simansky) and Kiev Nikolai (Yarushevich). The meeting was also attended by the NKGB officer G. G. Karpov, who was later appointed chairman of the Council on the Affairs of the Russian Orthodox Church. After a long and heartfelt conversation with the clergy, Stalin delivered a verdict: "... the church can count on the full support of the Government in all matters related to its organizational strengthening and development within the USSR."

And the church at that time really needed the support of the state.

In general, very few people have a clear idea about the situation of the church in the territories occupied by the Germans in the USSR. If you look "from the side", the look is not particularly penetrating into history a philistine, the picture seemed to be benevolent for the Russian church: many churches were restored by the Germans, services were held again, the desire for religiosity by Germany seemed to be supported.

It should not be forgotten, however, that the official religious doctrine of Nazi Germany was the neo-paganism cultivated by Hitler himself, based on a combination of ancient Germanic pagan beliefs and mystical occultism. Accordingly, the attitude towards Christian denominations in the highest German circles was like the branches of a "Jewish heresy."

The favorable attitude towards Orthodoxy in the territories occupied by the Germans was explained quite simply. Hitler’s insidious plan was to use all confessions and currents that had separated from them, including any schismatics and sectarians, in order to establish complete control not only for the clergy, but also for the flock. Moreover, implicitly replacing classical Christian concepts and dogmas, unobtrusively transforming liturgical texts, charters in the right direction, Hitler's ideologues created a completely new religion, a religion for the “Untermen”. Of course, the German plans did not imply any long-term existence of such a situation: in case of the victory of Germany over the USSR, all religious liberties would have been curtailed.

In the Easter letter of 2 on April 1942, issued by Patriarch Locum tenens, Sergey emphasized the alienness of the Nazi ideology to Christian doctrine. In general, during the war years, Sergius compiled 24 messages that dealt with all the major events of the military life of the Fatherland. In addition to practical considerations and instructions to the priests about what to do and how to behave with the local population, there were appeals to the people to valiantly defend the Orthodox Motherland from the enemy.

The examples of the personal courage of Russian clergy during the Great Patriotic War are also striking. Metropolitan Nikolai personally left on the instructions of Sergius in Moscow to the front line, where he performed services, and in sermons exhorted soldiers defending Moscow to bravely defend the capital of the Soviet homeland - “God sees everything, you will be reckoned ...”.

Metropolitan Alexy, who was in besieged Leningrad, served the liturgy in the Nikolsky Naval Cathedral and other churches, celebrated the dead victims of the blockade, strengthened the spirit of the blockade by preaching.

From 1942 to 1944, a campaign was widely conducted throughout the USSR to collect funds for construction tank columns. A well-known tank column named after Dmitry Donskoy, consisting of 40 combat vehicles and created with donations from believers. In the spring of 1944, Metropolitan Nikolai solemnly delegated these tanks from the Moscow Patriarchate to the Red Army, and it is known that some of the vehicles of this column reached Berlin.

They were going to the Russian church and the funds for the construction of the squadron named after Alexander Nevsky.

As the Red Army liberated the occupied territories, the facts of the military heroism of Orthodox clergymen, who were cohesive, partisan supporters and assistants of military underground fighters, became more and more known. Hundreds of these courageous and brave people were shot, burned alive, and subjected to the most severe torture for their activities.

Beginning with 1943, many priests and simply active believers began to introduce themselves to awards. A large group of clergymen were awarded medals "For the Defense of Leningrad", and the clergy of the Moscow and Tula dioceses in 1944 were awarded many medals "For the Defense of Moscow".

All these, as well as countless examples of smaller, but not becoming less significant, heroic deeds of priests and people who rushed to the embrasures with the name of the Lord on their lips, say that despite the fact that at least the Russian church and the her faith was in exile for a long time, they did not lose their relevance for the Russian people. And officially approved by the Soviet authorities in the difficult war years, faith once again flourished in the hearts of the soldiers, helping them to endure front-line adversities, to perform heroic acts, which we descendants will always remember.
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  1. Dictator
    Dictator 23 October 2012 08: 05
    +13
    Faith rallies the people, it is a pity that little attention is paid to this now (
    1. merkel1961
      merkel1961 23 October 2012 09: 08
      +12
      Not everything is still lost, recent events show a sharp rejection of attacks on Orthodoxy by the majority of our population and their readiness to defend their shrines.
      1. vorobey
        vorobey 23 October 2012 09: 29
        +9
        Wait, the neopagans and atheists will draw again, and then it will begin. By the way FOX, Kosopuz. if yesterday I was not goth ov. today please give me your attention, taking into account your references to Kozhinov and Prokopiy Caesarea.
        1. Fox 070
          Fox 070 23 October 2012 14: 22
          -1
          Quote: vorobey
          Wait, the neopagans and atheists will draw again, and then it will begin.

          Good day, vorobey! Well, let’s say, they didn’t come running, but went to the site and it’s not entirely clear what "will begin"? request
          Quote: vorobey
          By the way FOX,

          I am listening really carefully! hi
      2. does it
        does it 23 October 2012 10: 55
        +2
        Russia is a huge and very complex organism, in which Orthodoxy is far from the first place.
        1. vorobey
          vorobey 23 October 2012 11: 04
          +9
          Quote: kvirit
          in which Orthodoxy is far from the first place

          Given 70 years of persecution and extermination. if faith were weak then nothing would have remained of Orthodoxy in Russia. You're not right.
          1. Dobrokhod Sergey
            Dobrokhod Sergey 23 October 2012 11: 13
            -5
            Quote: vorobey
            Given 70 years of persecution and extermination. if faith were weak then nothing would have remained of Orthodoxy in Russia. You're not right.

            If there really were persecutions on faith, then nothing would remain of it. You're right.
            1. Aventurinka
              Aventurinka 23 October 2012 11: 19
              +1
              Well why. The faith that we had in pre-Christian times for 1000 years has been persecuted and nothing holds. And here it’s only 70 years old.
              1. vorobey
                vorobey 23 October 2012 11: 24
                +3
                Quote: Aventurinka
                The faith that we had in pre-Christian times for 1000 years has been persecuted and nothing holds.


                that's it.
                1. Aventurinka
                  Aventurinka 23 October 2012 11: 27
                  +6
                  Oh what are you. winked In no case. You are just aggressive in advance.
                  The persecution was a fact.
                  70 years is a short period for history. It would be enough if
                  Quote: vorobey
                  faith was weak

                  What has begun?
                  1. vorobey
                    vorobey 23 October 2012 12: 49
                    +1
                    Quote: Aventurinka
                    You are just aggressive in advance.

                    What is it manifested in?
                    1. Aventurinka
                      Aventurinka 23 October 2012 13: 06
                      +3
                      Well then. You signed me up as a member of this kind of communication
                      Quote: vorobey
                      Wait, the neopagans and atheists will draw again, and then it will begin.

                      After all, after my post they wrote
                      Quote: vorobey
                      that's it.

                      And I simply did not agree that only 70 years of persecution can completely eradicate faith (any). And brought an argument.
                      1. vorobey
                        vorobey 23 October 2012 13: 29
                        +3
                        Aventurinka,

                        Julia, why, with enviable regularity, articles about Orthodoxy are thrown here and the regular obsiral starts (sorry for the expression). Why does everything connected with Orthodoxy cause such antagonism among some of our fellow citizens? Are we bothering you? Are we rejecting you? We do not have a right to exist? Are we the wrong faith?

                        Quote: Aventurinka
                        After all, after my post they wrote


                        Why take offense because your post was the answer to mine.
                      2. Aventurinka
                        Aventurinka 23 October 2012 13: 39
                        +1
                        vorobeyWell what are you. I already said that I’m not offended at all. This makes no sense.
                        Not so long ago I wrote - people are not aggressive towards the faith as such, but towards the organization representing the faith, it would be even more correct to say to its individual representatives. And, as she recently said, under Alexei there was no such sharply negative attitude. But he did not do what the current Patriarch allows himself to do. Simply, many cannot adequately understand and formulate the reason for their discontent. And to cite, if there is such a great desire, adequate arguments, without slipping into insults and personalities.
                        Quote: vorobey
                        Your post was the answer to mine.

                        But no. ))) Take a closer look. My post is located not under yours, but a little to the right - it was the answer Dobrokhod Sergey. wink I will take into account for the future that it is necessary to indicate the one to whom you are addressing.
                      3. vorobey
                        vorobey 23 October 2012 13: 45
                        +1
                        Quote: Aventurinka
                        But no. ))) Take a closer look. My post is located not under yours, but a little to the right - it was the answer Sergei Dobrohod.


                        Julia, well, it’s impossible to argue with a woman - I know that, but it’s not realistic to convince her that I also know.

                        Disagree that you answered my post by continuing the words of Sergey. Well, let’s be sincere to the end.
                      4. Aventurinka
                        Aventurinka 23 October 2012 14: 01
                        0
                        I can not agree. For I meant exactly what I said.
                        There was a phrase in your post if faith were weak, Sergey tried to make up a not quite logical chain about the lack of persecutionwith which I did not agree. So she expressed her opinion.
                      5. Fox 070
                        Fox 070 23 October 2012 14: 31
                        -1
                        Quote: Aventurinka
                        . So she expressed her opinion.

                        Julia, hello! I just read and understand that the person who said that woman and logic are not compatible is just a donkey !!! "+" love good
                      6. Yarbay
                        Yarbay 23 October 2012 17: 26
                        +3
                        Quote: Aventurinka
                        Not so long ago I wrote - people are not aggressive towards the faith as such, but towards the organization representing the faith, it would be even more correct to say to its individual representatives. And, as she recently said, under Alexei there was no such sharply negative attitude. But he did not do what the current Patriarch allows himself to do. Simply, many cannot adequately understand and formulate the reason for their discontent. And to cite, if there is such a great desire, adequate arguments, without slipping into insults and personalities.
                        And in general, the Patriarch ??
                        Do you believe in God or in the Patriarch ??
                        What have you done wrong believers in God?
                      7. Aventurinka
                        Aventurinka 23 October 2012 22: 20
                        +3
                        Quote: Yarbay
                        Do you believe in God or in the Patriarch ??

                        Personally, I am an adherent of agnosticism. What I want to believe in is not important in this case.
                        There is another question. It's like with the police (from old memory). We all know that there is a law and that the police must enforce the law. And it kind of needs to be good. But their behavior does not coincide with the original functions so much that an extremely negative attitude to the whole structure is formed. Even in spite of the fact that there are ideological honest and conscientious representatives of the structure.
                        What have you done wrong believers in God?
                        I am very much strained by the question that Orthodox Christianity, represented by the Russian Orthodox Church, does not oppose the catastrophic outflow of the population from its faith. Alexander wrote that the churches are packed, but no less, the course "Foundations of Religious Cultures and Secular Ethics" in schools showed that in traditionally Russian regions the choice fell mainly not on "Orthodoxy", but on those very neutral foundations. And this, in my opinion, is a disaster. Because in traditionally Islamic regions, the religious block has turned out to be a priority.
                        Why am I trying to explain something here? I will allow myself to plagiarize "impunity breeds permissiveness." If believers understand that their mentors are leading the faith to attacks by their behavior and will collectively resent at least once, while it will still be possible to fix something. And if you leave everything to chance ... it will be a disaster.
                        After all, religion means the unification of people in an organization that has its own structure. And all of these need to be managed! A crisis in an organization is always caused by management problems.

                        On this bleak note, I round off and no longer unsubscribe in such topics.
                      8. Yarbay
                        Yarbay 23 October 2012 22: 59
                        0
                        Quote: Aventurinka
                        There is another question. It's like with the police (from old memory). We all know that there is a law and that the police must enforce the law. And it kind of needs to be good. But their behavior does not coincide with the original functions so much that an extremely negative attitude to the whole structure is formed. Even in spite of the fact that there are ideological honest and conscientious representatives of the structure.

                        The fact of the matter is that the question is not that !!
                        Comparison with police and laws is inappropriate!
                        This indicates your ignorance in matters of relegii !!
                        Not a single book of God does not write a word about the patriarchs of priests, mullahs and rabbis, that they are * police * of God's laws !!
                        So your attitude to the representative of religion is up to you, but this is not related to religion itself !!
                        If someone blows himself up with a cry to Allahu Akbar or Long live Christ, does that really mean belonging to RELIGION ??

                        Quote: Aventurinka
                        And this, in my opinion, is a disaster

                        What do you think that in the regions where Islam predominates, the clergy are all correct, God-fearing, and there are no lycimers ???
                        The management problem has nothing to do with the organization itself !!
                        Quote: Aventurinka
                        On this bleak note, I round off and no longer unsubscribe in such topics.

                        It's your right!
                        Nobody forced you before that ??
                      9. Drednout
                        Drednout 24 October 2012 00: 34
                        0
                        Quote: Yarbay
                        The fact of the matter is that this is not the question !! Comparison with the police and the law

                        Good day, Alibek.
                        Apparently, ma'am a little confuses the main world religions (in particular, Orthodoxy) with totalitarian sects. It’s just so easy to leave from there. Orthodoxy - it gives a person freedom in the spiritual sense, and he can do what he wants. Well, if it was called an agnostic (read a heretic), then there is clearly a clever creature (in any case, considering this).
                        Personally, I am wondering what "unfinished" pre-Christian religions that survived a thousand years of persecution have survived our days? (Judaism and Hinduism do not offer!) ???
                      10. Joker
                        Joker 23 October 2012 14: 02
                        +4
                        Julia, why with enviable regularity articles about Orthodoxy are thrown here and the regular obsiral

                        Can I answer? hi It seems to me that all this discontent does not go to the faith itself, but to the Russian Orthodox Church, because what it has now turned into is just horror, it’s worth looking at Patriarch Cyril even, well, what kind of Orthodox he is, you can’t even call him a believer, it’s a lot of money he’s dissecting in an impudent, but in a limousine service, now you won’t find priests of the faithful and keep all the covenants, you won’t find them soon, now people will trample in the Russian Orthodox Church because they still knocked the government out of the army for themselves. In 1998, I was in Voronezh with a friend, and just at that time, according to tradition, they transferred the icon from one church to another, as a believer I decided to go there, you know what struck me most then? When the icon began to be taken out, a monk ran out of the church with a camera on which stood a giant lens, then such cameras cost space money request that’s where donations and money allocated by the state go, now the Russian Orthodox Church has turned into a money laundering structure, the government allocates huge amounts of money to them, and where they go it is not clear, now they are fussing there, how did the criticism come from the people, and so what do they do? Jesus went and helped people and bequeathed to them to do this, and they closed in their churches and sit there fattening. Another event with priest Tikhon (if I'm not mistaken) when he was drunk on a gelding and got into an accident. In the villages, priests thump just so unashamedly. So it seems to me that it served as an attack, to the faith itself it seems to me that no one has complaints, but there are claims to the Russian Orthodox Church, it is she who is guilty of these attacks. It is worth listening to the speeches of these pseudo-popes and patriarchs on TV, so hostility immediately arises, it seems to me that the problem that we have in the government and appeared after the collapse of the USSR migrated to the Russian Orthodox Church.
                      11. Aventurinka
                        Aventurinka 23 October 2012 14: 12
                        +1
                        Quote: Joker
                        to the faith itself, no one seems to have complaints

                        I completely agree with you.
                      12. Yarbay
                        Yarbay 23 October 2012 17: 28
                        0
                        Quote: Aventurinka
                        I completely agree with you.

                        If you completely agree, then yesterday why did you support those who watered the Christian faith ??
                      13. vorobey
                        vorobey 23 October 2012 14: 23
                        +4
                        Quote: Joker
                        and to the Russian Orthodox Church, because what it has turned into just horror now, it’s worth looking at Patriarch Cyril, even if he’s Orthodox, you can’t even call him a believer, he’ll hit the loot insolently, but he’s dissecting the limousine with guards, the priests are now believers and you will not find those who keep all the covenants with fire during the day, soon they will not be at all,


                        Well, we still have rabbis, muftis. they probably ride on Lisapets

                        Joker how much money does the government allot? Or we can allocate a little for us, otherwise we don’t finish building the temple for donations for the fifth year. Do Muslims get money? And the rabbis? Expand the topic completely.
                      14. Aventurinka
                        Aventurinka 23 October 2012 14: 39
                        0
                        Quote: vorobey
                        Well, we still have rabbis, muftis. they probably ride on Lisapets

                        I, too, have long been interested. Indeed, there are no such facts, or they have such high-quality informational work. I often ask this question to different people, but so far I have not even made conclusions for myself.
                      15. Joker
                        Joker 23 October 2012 14: 43
                        +3
                        The Russian Orthodox Church has declared that in Russia there is "discrimination" of confessional Orthodox education in comparison with the all-Russian secular education. According to the Russian Orthodox Church, this is reflected in the incomparability of state funding for secular schools and Orthodox educational organizations.

                        The Russian Orthodox Church intends to seek the right to a part of budget revenues from income tax. This was announced yesterday by the head of the Russian Orthodox Church’s External Relations Metropolitan Kirill of Smolensk and Kaliningrad, who at one time had obtained customs privileges for the church to import tobacco and alcohol.

                        "The Russian Church does not have the material base for those social and educational programs that society demands and expects from it," the Metropolitan complained. "The total budget of foreign missionary organizations operating in Russia today is $ 150 million, which is five times the budget of the Russian Orthodox Church." Therefore, Vladyka suggested that the state "transfer part of the income tax of Russians, with their consent, to the budget of religious organizations."

                        The Moscow Patriarchate considered it superfluous to account for the furniture in the residence of Patriarch Kirill, the "Russian News Service" reports, citing a statement by the press secretary of the Patriarch Alexander Volkov. "We are not at all obliged to explain what furniture appears and is purchased in the rooms," he said.
                        The spokesman, however, noted that the residence was being reconstructed at the expense of benefactors, "who did not say at what cost and where they bought this furniture." Volkov also emphasized that all the furniture does not belong to the patriarch personally, but to the Russian Orthodox Church.

                        According to Interfax, Yevgeny Gushchin, deputy head of the financial and economic department of the Moscow Patriarchate, also said that the church's funds were not spent on furniture. “We have a lot of really important areas that need to be financed, but even for this there are not enough funds,” he said.

                        On the eve of the Russian media, referring to the publication of the Italian newspaper Il Giorno, reported that expensive Italian furniture by Jumbo was purchased for the reception hall of the residence of the head of the Russian Orthodox Church. In the material, the cost of furniture was not specified, however, the products of this company belong to the elite segment.

                        An article in the Italian edition says that furniture from the Four Seasons collection was purchased for the reception hall, released in a special version created with the participation of Russian designer Marina Putilovskaya. On the designer’s website, you can familiarize yourself with the interior she created.
                      16. Joker
                        Joker 23 October 2012 14: 54
                        +5
                        All land on which churches are built are allocated by the state free of charge. The government also allocated money from the budget for the restoration of existing churches and churches.

                        Neither the local dioceses, nor the Patriarchate are simply physically unable to exercise leadership, control, and, most importantly, centralized funding for repair, restoration and restoration work at architectural monuments. It is good when the burden of financing the restoration of the monument is taken by government agencies, as, for example, in Moscow. The metropolitan government annually allocates funds for restoration work

                        And here is some interesting news.
                        Rehabilitation center for seriously ill children "Childhood" should give one of the two buildings to the Exaltation of the Cross Convent in the village of "Gorki Leninskie" in the Moscow region. This decision was made by the Moscow Arbitration Court. The monastery laid claim to the building with a polyclinic, arguing that before the revolution this land belonged to the monastery.

                        And there are such examples of the sea, that’s what I meant, but it’s probably historically already happened, remember at least the tale of the priest and his worker bastard request
                      17. Drednout
                        Drednout 24 October 2012 00: 49
                        0
                        Quote: Joker
                        All land on which churches are built are allocated by the state free of charge. The government also allocated money from the budget for the restoration of existing churches and churches.

                        Well, our kingdom is very strong - the state will not become poor from this. Especially if you recognize the times of destruction and capture as monasteries, churches and Orthodox values ​​(and Muslim ones too). And remember the story from the 11th century. Thanks to Orthodoxy, this state is still holding. Not at all thanks to pre-Christian paganism.
                        And about children it would not hurt to give more detailed and expanded information. Some kind of yellowish style.
                      18. Dobrokhod Sergey
                        Dobrokhod Sergey 23 October 2012 15: 55
                        0
                        Quote: vorobey
                        Well, we still have rabbis, muftis. they probably ride on Lisapets


                        By the principle: And you have blacks hanged.
                        There, let their parishioners criticize, because, we are not aware of the subtleties of their communication and relations. The Orthodox Church - here it is, from morning till night in the newspapers and on TV, and now also in school.
                      19. vladimir64ss
                        vladimir64ss 23 October 2012 17: 39
                        0
                        Quote: Dobrokhod Sergey
                        By the principle: And you have blacks hanged.

                        By the principle: Divide, and rule. In any religion, it is impossible to separate the Church from the flock. And the church recognizes that shepherds are also people.
                      20. vorobey
                        vorobey 23 October 2012 17: 58
                        +1
                        Quote: Dobrokhod Sergey
                        There, let their congregation criticize

                        Are you a parishioner?
                      21. Dobrokhod Sergey
                        Dobrokhod Sergey 23 October 2012 21: 48
                        -1
                        Quote: vorobey
                        Are you a parishioner?

                        Never!
                        I haven’t lost my mind yet.
                      22. Yarbay
                        Yarbay 23 October 2012 17: 33
                        +1
                        Quote: vorobey
                        Joker how much money does the government allot? Or we can allocate a little for us, otherwise we don’t finish building the temple for donations for the fifth year. Do Muslims get money? And the rabbis? Expand the topic completely.

                        With your permission, I’ll say a little!
                        Sparrow is everywhere like that, you're right !!
                        I knew some of the priests with us! There were different, but mostly lycimer!
                        I remember one who liked to condemn - do not sin - do not repent, and all the time was afraid that he would be filmed!
                        And in Islam there are such and there are many of them!
                        But what does this have to do with religion ?? I believe in God, not in a clergyman !!
                      23. Ruslan67
                        Ruslan67 23 October 2012 17: 52
                        +3
                        Hi Alibek! the friendly rebuff of the Orthodox and Muslims to all the bruises pleases if it was always like this no one would dare to raise our tail
                      24. vorobey
                        vorobey 23 October 2012 18: 00
                        +3
                        Yarbay,
                        Ruslan67,
                        Guys and that's right.
                        Quote: Ruslan67
                        if it was always like that nobody would dare to raise our tail
                      25. Fox 070
                        Fox 070 23 October 2012 18: 13
                        0
                        Quote: Ruslan67
                        if it was always like that nobody would dare to raise our tail

                        The Jews have already lifted your tail at you ... and your leg at the same time. Rejoice in such unity. fellow
                      26. Ruslan67
                        Ruslan67 23 October 2012 21: 02
                        +2
                        fox 070! We will rejoice and see you on one leg and you with one eye! and as for the rest, it will be necessary to wind the tail and tear off the leg so that we don’t get bullied anywhere
                      27. Fox 070
                        Fox 070 24 October 2012 10: 02
                        +2
                        Quote: Ruslan67
                        - We’ll have to wind the tail and tear off the leg so that we don’t get bullied anywhere

                        Ha! Do not overdo it, together with Muslims in allies and with the Jews at the head!
                      28. Yarbay
                        Yarbay 23 October 2012 20: 10
                        0
                        Quote: Ruslan67
                        Hi Alibek! the friendly rebuff of the Orthodox and Muslims to all the bruises pleases if it was always like this no one would dare to raise our tail

                        Hi Ruslan !!
                        You are absolutely right!!
                        It should always be so !!
                      29. Alexander Romanov
                        Alexander Romanov 23 October 2012 14: 49
                        +8
                        Quote: Joker
                        The Russian Orthodox Church has become a money laundering structure, the government allocates huge amounts of money to them, and it is not clear where they are going,

                        Oleg, is there anything specifically for money laundering, or just the way it seems. I also think a lot, but it's so easy to say, but have you personally seen it? When they discussed the sausages on the site, they were all in a single order, and as soon as the article doesn’t contain them, the Church is watered by everyone. And what did the Church do to you personally? What does it teach you bad things? You’re constantly yelling, that the Trolls spit on Russia, but what do you do? The church is a part of Russia, you yourself throw it at it, with your own attacks. Have already reached, leave the believers alone, leave the faith alone. It’s not God in hell do not believe, so do not bother others. The patriots are bad ............
                      30. vorobey
                        vorobey 23 October 2012 14: 57
                        +2
                        Alexander Romanov,
                        Sanya can’t write anything to you in PM. restrictions. there is a request.
                      31. Alexander Romanov
                        Alexander Romanov 23 October 2012 14: 59
                        +2
                        Sasha, this is the system that answers so write everything goes fine there. There is some kind of failure in the system, everyone complains, but the letters go through. It won't work, here's the email address [email protected]
                      32. vadimN
                        vadimN 23 October 2012 15: 05
                        0
                        Quote: Alexander Romanov
                        Do not believe in God yourself, don’t believe in God, so don’t disturb others.


                        But atheists don't bother anyone. Fools such as pusek, working "to order" - does not count. We are talking about sane people. So, atheists just do not impose their "faith in unbelief" on anyone, and the champions of Christianity are ready to tear apart anyone who does not share their views ... The course of turning Russia into Orthodox Iran is what scares!
                      33. klavyr
                        klavyr 23 October 2012 21: 52
                        +1
                        Interestingly, the famous atheist S. Dorenko is a sane person? and yet, is Orthodox radicalism possible in Russia? I think not! only you don’t need to spit in your soul - everyone doesn’t like it
                      34. Joker
                        Joker 23 October 2012 15: 06
                        +4
                        Alexander, yes, I don’t touch faith, I’m Orthodox, I just give examples of why the society has a negative attitude towards the Russian Orthodox Church and not faith, the Russian Orthodox Church and Orthodoxy are not very compatible concepts in the present, I’ll try to post an article about income, article big and everything is painted where the money from the church comes from.
                      35. Alexander Romanov
                        Alexander Romanov 23 October 2012 15: 23
                        +5
                        Quote: Joker
                        , I just give examples of why the society has a negative attitude towards the Russian Orthodox Church,

                        Oleg, what kind of society do you live in, if I see with my own eyes that you can’t bump into services in the Church. There are different people — there are old women, there are young and military people. What kind of society do you mean, if one that can only spit in the Church, then this is not the whole society.
                        Quote: Joker
                        The Russian Orthodox Church and Orthodoxy in the present are not very compatible,

                        When a person has trouble, RUN to the Church flees !!! Who needs God, who needs faith, if everything in life is chocolate? -all this becomes superfluous. Millions of people in Russia, for whom the Church is HOLY! And laying out articles from where the money written by those who the Church does not stand up to the spirit, you help them yourself. I know priests who don’t have anything, but serve with all their heart, not for money, but after their hearts. Come and see how many people come and turn for help in the temples, because there’s no place to go anymore. The church for the person in the modern world is the last place he goes. It will be very bad if at least one does not go and turns away from the Church, as well as from the faith thanks to the articles that you spread it all out. Just sit to think what the Church has done and who’s wrong? Go to the priest and ask where the money came from, and not read the articles written by those whose task is to fight the faith.
                      36. Joker
                        Joker 23 October 2012 16: 06
                        +4
                        I know priests who have nothing, but serve with all their heart, not for money, but after their hearts

                        May God grant them health, I’m talking about that, so that the Russian Orthodox Church consists of such and only such hi It would be so, I would not say a word against, but such a minority unfortunately sad
                        It will be very bad if at least one does not go and turns away from the Church, as well as from the faith thanks to the articles that you all post here.

                        Alexander, I have no purpose to reassure someone, if a person stops believing, then his faith was not strong. And again, the church is allowed propaganda of the faith, but why shouldn’t we discuss it, I’m not inventing anything, but I’m just giving facts and arguments, with all the references request I’m not trying to hurt the faith, I don’t touch or discuss it, I’m talking about the church request
                      37. Alexander Romanov
                        Alexander Romanov 23 October 2012 16: 34
                        +3
                        Quote: Joker
                        And again, the church is allowed propaganda of the faith, but why shouldn’t we discuss it, I’m not inventing anything, but I’m only giving facts and arguments, with all the references

                        Oleg, I saw somewhere in my posts that I spoke of someone’s faith in abusive tones.? I ask not much, just don’t touch the Church and my faith and EVERYTHING. But they don’t want or don’t want to. What or who others believe in their personal affair, but when the Church is hurt, they automatically hurt me and my faith. It’s not for you to judge what is good, what is bad and not to me. Many facts that you speak of to the truth are irrelevant. I go to church with faith, but coming here I hear, we don’t touch the faith, but only the Church you go to. For me, faith and the Church are one and connected in my life.
                      38. Joker
                        Joker 23 October 2012 17: 07
                        +4
                        Oleg, I saw somewhere in my posts that I spoke of someone’s faith in abusive tones.?

                        Alexander, where did I do it?
                        I go to the Church with faith, but when I come here I hear, we don’t touch the faith, but only the Church you go to. For me, faith and the Church are one and connected in my life.

                        Alexander, when I write about the church, I do not mean it as a sanctuary of faith, I discuss priests who, under the cover of faith, do dirty things request By no means do I want to offend the believers.
                      39. vadimN
                        vadimN 23 October 2012 15: 37
                        +1
                        Quote: Joker
                        the article is large and everything is written out where the money comes from the church.


                        And I, dear, will help you a little. Here is material on church business, not posted in the tabloid press, but in a respected business publication.

                        http://top.rbc.ru/economics/25/07/2012/661562.shtml

                        You can find detailed calculations and proofs in the August issue of the RBC magazine.
                      40. Joker
                        Joker 23 October 2012 15: 55
                        +6
                        Oleg, is there anything specifically for money laundering, or just the way it seems. I also think a lot, but it's so easy to say, but have you personally seen it?

                        I added the article, read it tomorrow, everything is described in detail where the money from the Russian Orthodox Church came from, with facts. There are also facts of money laundering. I personally didn’t see it, because I didn’t set myself such a goal, I’m not a journalist, because if you dig around you can find a lot of interesting things, I’m sure. But let’s say when they didn’t allow their own candle to be put, not bought in this particular church, I came across this directly, although I bought the same candle in a church shop, you know, it wasn’t very pleasant sad
                        When they discussed the sausages on the site, everyone was in the same order, and as soon as they are not in the article, the Church is watered by all and sundry.

                        So we are now in a single system, there are simply claims to the Russian Orthodox Church and that’s all, atheists and non-believers and Orthodox all condemn this act, because it is a spit on people’s souls, and here we don’t touch upon issues of belief, we don’t discuss covenants, we don’t touch Jesus Christ, don’t touch his holy followers, the Russian Orthodox Church does not have the will of God in the last resort, there 90% violate covenants, or even more, for Jesus bequeathed to live in modesty, and where did you see modesty in the Russian Orthodox Church? They are already turning in pursuit of golden crosses from the commandments backed down.
                        what did the Church do wrong to you personally? What does it teach you bad things? You’re constantly yelling, that the Trolls spit on Russia, but what do you do? The church is a part of Russia, you yourself throw it at it, with your own attacks. Have already reached, leave the believers alone, leave the faith alone.

                        Not the Church is part of Russia, but faith is part of it, for faith in the soul of man cannot be taken away.
                        Verse 5-6 about ostentatious piety.
                        5 And ​​when you pray, do not be like the hypocrites who love in synagogues and at the corners of the streets, stopping, praying, to appear before people. Verily I say unto you, that they already receive their reward.
                        6 You, when you pray, enter your room and, shutting your door, pray to your Father, who is in secret; and your Father who sees in secret will reward you openly.
                        In order to believe it is not necessary to go to church, faith is in you and not in that ostentatious piety, with which the Russian Orthodox Church suffers.
                        Do not believe in God yourself, don’t believe in God, so don’t disturb others.

                        How am I bothering you? What shaking your breasts and yelling in your face, stop believing me?
                        Did I say something bad about Jesus Christ and his covenants? I only condemn the self-interest which is present in those who impersonate gentlemen who carry the will.
                        Patriots fucking ............

                        Again? And patriotism and faith? Again, you divide people into good and bad in relation to religion, a non-believer means not a patriot, a brow before entering a church does not hit means not a patriot, or like yesterday, not Orthodox, not Russian.
                      41. Drednout
                        Drednout 24 October 2012 00: 40
                        -2
                        Quote: Joker
                        I as a believer decided to go there

                        Something is different.
                        So you looked at the icon or at the lens of a monk (or rather even a novice). Is it interesting to count other people's money? The first sign of a "true" Christian!
              2. baltika-18
                baltika-18 23 October 2012 12: 39
                0
                Quote: Aventurinka
                Well why. The faith that we had in pre-Christian times for 1000 years has been persecuted and nothing holds. And here it’s only 70 years old.

                Why are you minus Julia. For the truth?
                1. vorobey
                  vorobey 23 October 2012 13: 04
                  +3
                  Quote: baltika-18
                  Why are you minus Julia.

                  Baltic know my attitude to the minuses - extremely rare and reluctant. And Julia never.

                  And what is the truth with Julia?
                  1. baltika-18
                    baltika-18 23 October 2012 13: 26
                    +1
                    Quote: vorobey
                    Baltic know my attitude to the minuses - extremely rare and reluctant. And Julia never.

                    Well, this is generally not necessary for you, I have the same disadvantages, only sheer nonsense.
                    Quote: vorobey
                    And what is the truth with Julia?
                    The truth is in logic.
                2. Fox 070
                  Fox 070 23 October 2012 14: 33
                  +1
                  Quote: baltika-18
                  Why are you minus Julia. For the truth?

                  For her, darling! And for the fact that there is simply no objection to the reasoned answer!
              3. GG2012
                GG2012 23 October 2012 14: 18
                +2
                Quote: Aventurinka
                The faith that we had in pre-Christian times for 1000 years has been persecuted and nothing holds.

                That you just noticed! More than 1000 years and holds on!
              4. Lucky
                Lucky 23 October 2012 15: 21
                +2
                all that is not done is for the best!
            2. vorobey
              vorobey 23 October 2012 11: 22
              +11
              Quote: Dobrokhod Sergey
              If there really were persecutions on faith, then nothing would remain of it.


              Well, yes, I agree with the demolitions of the churches and the shooting of the priests, this is a reconstruction. there was no persecution.

              Do not be disingenuous if even Stalin caught himself.
              1. Goga
                Goga 23 October 2012 11: 57
                +2
                vorobey - Well, Colleague, and the successors of Hitler's cause appeared - neo-pagans (- quote - "... the official religious doctrine of Nazi Germany was neo-paganism cultivated by Hitler himself ...). Generally it is interesting how, in general, intelligent people accept what they want for the real - so they decided for themselves, without any reason, that our ancestors believed exactly in this and that is how everything went - it went off - and Orthodoxy is already an "anti-Russian" project and the ROC is already an "alien" element, etc., etc. And it's easy to understand that what was good for the tribal system (paganism) cannot in any way be combined with the development of statehood, and without the development of a powerful state, there is only one path - to the dustbin of history, into complete oblivion. The people of at least one modern state ( All pagan civilizations are far, far in the past. Just at a certain stage in the development of society and the tribal organization of this society and the corresponding pagan religion They are not viable in opposition to more highly organized forms of statehood and forms of religion corresponding to this state system. Prince Vladimir understood this, and it was the adoption of Orthodoxy that became the basis for the creation of a huge empire by the Russians. What are the current neopagans seeking - the final collapse of our country? Return to the days of free Slavic tribes? It would be ridiculous, if only it were not that all this fuss of theirs did not work against our country - to separate our people - and this is no longer funny, but sad - it is so easy to bite at provocations ... fool .
                1. Dobrokhod Sergey
                  Dobrokhod Sergey 23 October 2012 12: 39
                  +1
                  Quote: Gogh
                  Does the people of at least one modern state (of any significance) profess paganism?


                  Japan.
                  By the way, in all economically significant countries, the church is separated from the state and not in words.
                  1. vadimN
                    vadimN 23 October 2012 14: 09
                    +2
                    Quote: Dobrokhod Sergey
                    Does the people of at least one modern state (of any significance) profess paganism?


                    Well, about Japan you have already been answered. Traditional Japanese Shintoism is an offshoot of the same paganism.
                    But I didn’t want to say this, but about this: It doesn’t matter whether Christianity, Judaism or Islam - any orthodox, invented religion hinders the development of mankind! It may be objected to me that it was precisely the Christian countries (with the exception of Japan) that became the locomotives of technological progress. This is true! But not thanks to Christianity, but contrary!
                    Renounce religious blinders for a while and look at the chronology of the development of our civilization. All the outstanding achievements of mankind in science and culture date back to either the period before Christianity (Mediterranean civilizations - Greece, Rome, Egypt), or the period of the weakening of the influence of the church and its separation from secular life (the scientific and technological revolution in the 19-20 centuries).
                    With the adoption and strengthening of Christianity, the great Mediterranean empires sunk into summer, the pre-Christian history of Russia was almost completely destroyed, Europe was heated for several centuries by the inquisition bonfires, and only with a decrease in the influence of the church on high life, a renaissance period began in culture and science.
                    By the middle of the 19 century, the line between the state and the church began to be more clearly defined in almost all countries of Europe and North America. The influence of the church on social life has noticeably weakened. As a result, scientific and technological progress and the transition of civilization to a new technological level.
                    As for our country with you, all of Russia's global achievements in science (space, atom, etc. ....) fall on the period of mass atheism ...

                    No one disputes the right of everyone to believe in what he likes and go to temples ... But a reasonable line is needed in everything - both in religiosity and in Godlessness.
                    The current opponents of Christianity in Russia are not annoyed by someone else’s faith in God, but by the desire to monopolize God within the framework of one faith!
                    1. Dobrokhod Sergey
                      Dobrokhod Sergey 23 October 2012 21: 54
                      -1
                      Quote: vadimN
                      Quote: Welcome Sergey
                      Does the people of at least one modern state (of any significance) profess paganism?


                      Confused nothing?
                      1. SMUTIAN
                        SMUTIAN 23 October 2012 21: 58
                        +1
                        Worship of material values ​​is practiced by everyone, without exception.
                  2. Alexander Romanov
                    Alexander Romanov 23 October 2012 14: 37
                    +2
                    Quote: Dobrokhod Sergey

                    By the way, in all how economically significant countries,

                    And what economic ones are these?
                    1. Dobrokhod Sergey
                      Dobrokhod Sergey 24 October 2012 09: 09
                      +1
                      Quote: Alexander Romanov
                      And what economic ones are these?


                      You damn it all numb today? With this question to the source, to Gogh.
                  3. Stary oper
                    Stary oper 23 October 2012 23: 34
                    +2
                    Dobrokhod Sergey
                    By the way, in all economically significant countries, the church is separated from the state and not in words.

                    Formally. In Germany, for example, government agencies collect church tax. I'm not talking about studying religion at school.
                2. vadimN
                  vadimN 23 October 2012 13: 16
                  +1
                  Quote: Gogh
                  Well, Colleague and there were successors to Hitler - neopagans


                  A highly controversial statement!
                  Here is the source for you. Then judge for yourself:
                  "We will not tolerate anyone in our ranks who attacks the ideas of Christianity ... in fact, our movement is Christian."
                  Adolf Gitler. Speech in Passau, October 27 1928

                  Chapter 10 of the first part of "Mein Kampf" is devoted to the question of the importance of religion for the preservation of the morality and unity of the German nation.

                  Doesn’t resemble the thoughts of the ardent defenders of Christianity on this site?
                  1. vorobey
                    vorobey 23 October 2012 13: 32
                    +9
                    Quote: vadimN
                    Quote: Gogh
                    Well, Colleague and there were successors to Hitler - neopagans


                    A highly controversial statement!
                    Here is the source for you. Then judge for yourself:
                    "We will not tolerate anyone in our ranks who attacks the ideas of Christianity ... in fact, our movement is Christian."
                    Adolf Gitler. Speech in Passau, October 27 1928

                    Chapter 10 of the first part of "Mein Kampf" is devoted to the question of the importance of religion for the preservation of the morality and unity of the German nation.

                    Doesn’t resemble the thoughts of the ardent defenders of Christianity on this site?


                    Well, some with the name of Allah and Muslims are slaughtering, just as some with the name of Christ are bombing children. Separate the grain from the chaff. parasites always find fertile ground.
                    1. Fox 070
                      Fox 070 23 October 2012 14: 59
                      0
                      Quote: vorobey
                      Well, some with the name of Allah and Muslims are slaughtering, just as some with the name of Christ are bombing children.

                      And the Japanese "pagans" attacked China ... Is it really necessary to tie any religion to extremism? Haven't you ever had a chance to drink vodka with an atheist or a Mohammedan? I think that it happened more than once. Did vodka (or tea, no difference) become from this different taste? No, I didn't! So why do we have to prove something to each other. Do you believe in Jesus as the savior of mankind? For God's sake, believe. Is it not me or the kosopuz, or ... yes, many who make you (or other faithful) give up your faith and your place in it? No! But it is not necessary to present your Faith as the avenging sword of Christ. Do not make your beliefs a scarecrow for the non-Christian part of the Russians (who, by the way, are more than a third of the number of Russians in the country). In this way, we will definitely not be able to unite the people and develop a national idea. Is this what you want? hi
                      1. vorobey
                        vorobey 23 October 2012 15: 21
                        +5
                        Quote: Fox 070
                        For God's sake, believe. Is it rather that I’re either a kosopuz, or ... yes, many who are forcing you (or other faithful) to abandon their faith and their place in it? No! But do not expose your Faith as the punishing sword of Christ. Do not make a scarecrow out of your convictions for the non-Christian part of Russians (which, by the way, are more than a third of the number of Russians in the country). In this way, we certainly will not be able to unite the people and develop a national idea. Are you doing this?


                        Stop fox. so we can agree to hell knows what Russian will go to Russian. No one exposes Orthodoxy as a punishing sword, but we don’t need to touch us either. I can forgive you the donkey, even turn the second cheek, but if you hit me the second time, hold on, nothing is said in the covenant. why attacks go only to Orthodoxy. Does your eyes hurt? Or that the Baptists are Jehovah's Witnesses. Mormons Protestants we are completely absent? Throw away emotions and think for yourself why and to whom it is beneficial.

                        and do not be the first to shoot
                        Quote: Fox 070
                        In this way, we certainly will not be able to unite the people and develop a national idea. You achieve this

                        I do not believe the faith of my father and my grandfather and great-grandfather.
                      2. Fox 070
                        Fox 070 23 October 2012 16: 02
                        0
                        Quote: vorobey
                        I can forgive you a donkey, even turn my second cheek,

                        No need for such sacrifices! Apparently it was necessary to indicate that these are the words of one of the famous philosophers (honestly, I don’t remember who exactly): "Woman and logic are two incompatible concepts." I apologize for the misunderstanding.
                        Quote: vorobey
                        I do not believe the faith of my father and my grandfather and great-grandfather.

                        So I (and not only me) "do not hay" orthodoxy and do not drag you (God forbid) by force into the camp of "enemies of the people." I'm just defending my point of view.
                        Quote: vorobey
                        so we can agree to hell knows what Russian will go to Russian.

                        So such a story already happened during the Christianization of Russia.
                        Quote: vorobey
                        do not need to touch us.

                        I repeat, no one is touching you, but we should not stop our mouths either. Everyone defends those beliefs that are closer to him. And what after that, one of us has become less Russian? Or didn’t he begin to love his land? I don’t understand this! What is the trick? request
                      3. vorobey
                        vorobey 23 October 2012 16: 28
                        +2
                        You have not said a single word now in upholding your faith. You mud my faith. I speak for myself now.
                      4. Fox 070
                        Fox 070 23 October 2012 16: 41
                        -2
                        Quote: vorobey
                        . You mud my faith. I speak for myself now.

                        Yes, in what place I doused her with mud ??? Percentage, perhaps! request
                      5. Joker
                        Joker 23 October 2012 17: 10
                        +1
                        Felix, are you a believer or an atheist? We’re just talking here the second day, but I don’t understand this. hiIt seems not Orthodox, but your phrases suggest that you are either an atheist or a non-Christian, I still did not understand who hi
                      6. Fox 070
                        Fox 070 23 October 2012 17: 38
                        0
                        Quote: Joker
                        Felix, are you a believer or an atheist?

                        Yes, Oleg, I am a believer, and I came to my faith consciously, realizing that Christianity is not a religion that is worthy of following its principles. This is my opinion and my decision.
                      7. Joker
                        Joker 23 October 2012 17: 42
                        +3
                        And if it's not a secret, what kind of religion? You do not think that I am some kind of spy, just interested in such topics hiYou can write in a personal.
                      8. vorobey
                        vorobey 23 October 2012 18: 04
                        +4
                        Quote: Fox 070
                        realizing that Christianity is not a religion that is worthy of following its tenets. This is my opinion and my decision.

                        joker in yesterday’s topic, look. Today he is careful with words.
                      9. Joker
                        Joker 23 October 2012 18: 19
                        +3
                        There are so many comments that my computer starts to blunt when I go there laughing
                      10. Fox 070
                        Fox 070 23 October 2012 18: 15
                        -2
                        Quote: Joker
                        You can write in a personal.

                        I’ll write a little later. hi
                      11. Joker
                        Joker 23 October 2012 18: 19
                        +1
                        Ok, as you say hi
                      12. vorobey
                        vorobey 23 October 2012 17: 43
                        +1
                        Quote: Joker
                        I didn’t understand who


                        Just foxes. sly red fox.
                      13. Stary oper
                        Stary oper 23 October 2012 23: 38
                        +1
                        Fox 070
                        Is it really necessary to tie any religion to extremism?

                        Yes, you just do not recognize ... Since when did you change your position? :)
                  2. Stary oper
                    Stary oper 23 October 2012 23: 54
                    0
                    vadimN
                    Bringing this quote
                    "We will not tolerate anyone in our ranks who attacks the ideas of Christianity ... in fact, our movement is Christian."
                    Adolf Gitler. Speech in Passau, October 27 1928

                    you did not take into account the fact that in 1928 Hitler was not yet in power and therefore, in his struggle for power at that time, he had to take into account the influence of the church on society, like any politician.
                3. Fox 070
                  Fox 070 23 October 2012 14: 40
                  -1
                  Quote: Gogh
                  Well, Colleague and there were successors to Hitler - neopagans

                  Can you justify this? Only calmly, without emotions and hysteria.
                  1. vadimN
                    vadimN 23 October 2012 14: 52
                    +1
                    Quote: Fox 070
                    Can you justify this? Only calmly, without emotions and hysteria.


                    It cannot, for there are no arguments. Some far-fetched thoughts and jerky superficial knowledge ... By the way, I personally, as a Russian officer, perceive such a review (the successor of Hitler) as an insult!
                    1. vorobey
                      vorobey 23 October 2012 14: 59
                      +1
                      Quote: vadimN
                      I personally, as a Russian officer,

                      Where are you a Russian officer? Russian officers under the banners of Christ rose and died.

                      call yourself then a Vedunsky officer or Svarozhsky.
                      1. baltika-18
                        baltika-18 23 October 2012 15: 28
                        +4
                        Quote: vorobey
                        Where are you a Russian officer? Russian officers under the banners of Christ rose and died.

                        call yourself then a Vedunsky officer or Svarozhsky.

                        Sparrow, why do you think that being a Russian is a must to be a Christian. I am a Russian, and also a Russian officer. But I do not consider myself a Christian, because I do not accept in the Bible the teachings on the creation of the world, on Adam and Eve, on God's chosen people, about Abraham , Ezekiel, Malachi, Solomon, I do not recognize the book of numbers, Leviticus, Exodus, Genesis and much more. Answer me why, in your understanding, to be Russian means to recognize the Old Testament, which is part of the Torah, which in turn is part of the Talmud?
                      2. baltika-18
                        baltika-18 23 October 2012 15: 40
                        +1
                        What are we minus? It would be better to answer, no matter how I ask this question, I get no answer. I doubt that anyone will answer me today either.
                      3. Alexander Romanov
                        Alexander Romanov 23 October 2012 15: 55
                        +2
                        Quote: baltika-18
                        What are we minus?

                        Nikolai, and what are the difficulties, you sparrow covered with minuses and personally bet him, and ask yourself for what. Interesting girls are dancing


                        Против
                        baltika-18
                        OSTAP BENDER
                        GG2012
                        Fox 070
                        This is just one comment cons, so you should not rely on the cons.
                      4. vorobey
                        vorobey 23 October 2012 16: 01
                        +3
                        Sanya do not tear your heart. The main thing is that I'm aggressively minded. Tolerance probably.

                        baltika-18,
                        Read the answer below.
                      5. baltika-18
                        baltika-18 23 October 2012 16: 10
                        +2
                        Quote: Alexander Romanov
                        Nikolai, and what are the difficulties, you sparrow covered with minuses and personally bet him, and ask yourself for what. Interesting girls are dancing

                        And I gloated, Sasha, for he is not able to answer the question. And the fact that he wrote this is not an answer, it is an excuse and an attempt to turn backward by turning on the reverse gear.
                      6. Fox 070
                        Fox 070 23 October 2012 16: 08
                        +1
                        Quote: baltika-18
                        . I doubt that today someone will answer me either.

                        It is almost impossible to answer this without agreeing with you. From that and minus in impotent rage.
                      7. vorobey
                        vorobey 23 October 2012 16: 13
                        +2
                        baltika-18,
                        Fox 070,
                        Here it carries you guys.

                        If I wagged the Baltics and turned on the back, explain to me what the Torah, Old Testament and Bible are. Weak?
                      8. baltika-18
                        baltika-18 23 October 2012 16: 17
                        +2
                        Quote: vorobey
                        If I wagged the Baltics and turned on the back, explain to me what the Torah, Old Testament and Bible are. Weak?

                        The answer is below.
                      9. vorobey
                        vorobey 23 October 2012 16: 30
                        +1
                        Quote: baltika-18
                        Quote: vorobey
                        If I wagged the Baltics and turned on the back, explain to me what the Torah, Old Testament and Bible are. Weak?

                        Answer below


                        This is nonsense and not the answer. Do not set off.
                      10. Dobrokhod Sergey
                        Dobrokhod Sergey 23 October 2012 16: 16
                        +3
                        baltika-18
                        No, they will not answer. They put an equal sign between Russian and Orthodoxy. Scolding the USSR for persecuting the church and atheism, they forget who won the victory in the Second World War. Cursing the Jews and accusing them of all sins, they forget that they worship the Jewish god.
                      11. vorobey
                        vorobey 23 October 2012 16: 38
                        +4
                        Quote: Dobrokhod Sergey
                        baltika-18
                        No, they will not answer. They put an equal sign between Russian and Orthodoxy. Scolding the USSR for persecuting the church and atheism, they forget who won the victory in the Second World War. Cursing the Jews and accusing them of all sins, they forget that they worship the Jewish god.


                        this is bent brother. Not everyone is capable of such nonsense. Calm down, no one touches your faith that you are enraged. Someone forcibly forces you to carry a cross or drags you to church?

                        What does Orthodoxy prevent you from breathing so much that you drool over with such malice?
                      12. Dobrokhod Sergey
                        Dobrokhod Sergey 23 October 2012 22: 00
                        -2
                        Quote: vorobey
                        What does Orthodoxy prevent you from breathing so much that you drool over with such malice?

                        You do not ramp your drool.

                        Quote: vorobey
                        this is bent brother.

                        I’m not your brother, but that bent, try to disperse, balabol.
                        I don’t have faith - I have knowledge, and you believe in nothing.
                      13. vorobey
                        vorobey 23 October 2012 15: 52
                        +5
                        Quote: baltika-18
                        Sparrow why do you think that being a Russian is necessarily a Christian

                        Baltic I did not mean it read carefully.

                        Quote: baltika-18
                        because I don’t accept the teachings of the world about the creation of the world, about Adam and Eve, about the God-chosen Jews, about Abraham, Ezekiel, Malachi, Solomon, I don’t recognize the book of numbers, Leviticus, Exodus, Genesis and much more


                        I also do not accept, do not recognize the book of numbers, Leviticus, Exodus, Genesis and much more.
                        Quote: baltika-18
                        why, in your understanding, being Russian means recognizing the Old Testament, which is part of the Torah, which in turn is part of the Talmud?


                        This phrase only says that you just don’t understand what the Bible, the Torah, and the Old Testament are. even if you read it you did not understand the meaning. there comes the expectation of the coming of Christ.

                        And yet, I don’t know about you, but I like to be the heir to Adam and Eve whom God created in his own image and likeness than the heir to the monkey.
                      14. baltika-18
                        baltika-18 23 October 2012 16: 01
                        0
                        Quote: vorobey
                        I also do not accept, do not recognize the book of numbers, Leviticus, Exodus, Genesis and much more.

                        Then what kind of Christian are you if you do not accept the biblical teaching. The Old Testament includes the five books of Moses, it is also part of the Torah, which is not so.
                      15. vorobey
                        vorobey 23 October 2012 16: 19
                        +6
                        part of the Torah or Tanakh why are you pushing me.

                        You will understand the material yourself and do not try to catch me in words.
                      16. Dobrokhod Sergey
                        Dobrokhod Sergey 23 October 2012 17: 16
                        0
                        Quote: vorobey
                        And yet, I don’t know about you, but I like to be the heir to Adam and Eve whom God created in his own image and likeness than the heir to the monkey.

                        So the image and likeness of God is Adam or Eve. Really two in one!
                      17. Fox 070
                        Fox 070 23 October 2012 16: 05
                        -1
                        Quote: baltika-18
                        .I am a Russian, and also a Russian officer.

                        As if they wrote about me! "+" drinks
                      18. Drednout
                        Drednout 24 October 2012 01: 21
                        +1
                        It is strange that you, Nikolai, are not up to date, but still I’ll start:
                        Russian officers swore allegiance to the Tsar, the anointed of God, and accordingly recognized Orthodoxy. Is it logical? Did you take the teachings about Abraham, God's chosen peoples and other Talmudic "parts" from Kedov? Find your spiritual father in the nearest church (preferably simpler) and talk to him about all the teachings, etc. Anyway, if you really listen. Sincerely. Oh yes, right now I'll put a plus.
                      19. vadimN
                        vadimN 23 October 2012 15: 49
                        +2
                        Quote: vorobey
                        Russian officers under the banners of Christ rose and died


                        Russian officers and under the red banners shouting "For the Motherland, for Stalin!" they were dying, and they simply went into battle with a swear word on their lips ... And if there is a need, then the present ones will rise and go to their death against the external foe. And do not give a damn whether the banner of Christ above the head or the red flag, or tricolor... First of all, let's go for the Motherland! And whoever prays to any God in the soul is everyone's personal business. But you, with your rejection of everything that is not your way, lead to a split of the Russian people on a religious basis.
                      20. vorobey
                        vorobey 23 October 2012 16: 03
                        +3
                        Quote: vadimN
                        And here you are with your rejection of everything that is not your way


                        A secret example. can?

                        I do not touch anyone, but I will not let my faith dirty.
                      21. Dobrokhod Sergey
                        Dobrokhod Sergey 23 October 2012 17: 13
                        0
                        Quote: vorobey
                        I do not touch anyone, but I will not let my faith dirty.


                        And you just with your faith do not meddle with those who do not need it. Limit yourself to the territory of a church or temple.
                      22. Dobrokhod Sergey
                        Dobrokhod Sergey 23 October 2012 16: 07
                        +2
                        Quote: vorobey
                        Russian officers under the banners of Christ rose and died.


                        Are you talking about the Cossacks of General Krasnov and about the Security Corps now talking?
                        Or about Kolchakovtsev?
                      23. vorobey
                        vorobey 23 October 2012 16: 22
                        +2
                        No foolishness.
                        Do you know much about Krasnov and Kolchak? And about Kornilov? And about Raevsky. But about Makarov?
                      24. vadimN
                        vadimN 23 October 2012 16: 25
                        +1
                        Quote: Dobrokhod Sergey
                        Are you talking about the Cossacks of General Krasnov and about the Security Corps now talking?
                        Or about Kolchakovtsev?


                        Both Krasnovites and Kolchakites are all Russian people .... And this is our Istria. Remember the movie "Admiral"? There is such a scene - the priest reads the burial service for the dead on the field. All lie together ... And his words: "God doesn't care what color he is ..."
                        By the way, often Russian officers "on the other side" of the front were more moral than the Jewish commissars in the Red Army. General A.I. Denikin forbade rewarding his soldiers and officers even for the brightest feats in the fratricidal war.
                      25. vorobey
                        vorobey 23 October 2012 16: 41
                        +2
                        Quote: vadimN
                        Both Krasnovites and Kolchakites are all Russian people .... And this is our Istria. Remember the movie "Admiral"? There is such a scene - the priest reads the burial service for the dead on the field. All lie together ... And his words: "God doesn't care what color he is ..."
                        By the way, often Russian officers "on the other side" of the front were more moral than the Jewish commissars in the Red Army. General A.I. Denikin forbade rewarding his soldiers and officers even for the brightest feats in the fratricidal war.


                        Plus Vadim for this post. And you have faith - you can see by the buzzword.
                        Sorry for the officer. got excited.
                      26. vadimN
                        vadimN 23 October 2012 16: 48
                        +6
                        Quote: vorobey
                        Sorry for the officer. got excited.


                        Well, if not irony - apologies accepted. drinks
                        ... And in general, the more I read all sorts of disputes here, the more despondency attacks. What kind of people are we that we rally only before an external threat, and in a quiet time we are ready to bite each other. Is it time for the Russian people to make peace among themselves ...?
                      27. vorobey
                        vorobey 23 October 2012 17: 10
                        +4
                        Quote: vadimN
                        Is it time for the Russian people to make peace among themselves ...?


                        I agree. only to those like Fox does not reach. Pouring mud over others you pour yourself. Leave Orthodoxy alone. God is One.
                      28. Fox 070
                        Fox 070 23 October 2012 17: 51
                        0
                        Quote: vorobey
                        I agree. only to those like Fox does not reach. Pouring mud over others you pour yourself. Leave Orthodoxy alone. God is One.

                        Stop saying, like mantras: Fox throws mud. Fox throws mud. What do I water mud? Where? Answer and do not breed demagoguery! Or there is nothing to answer! You sit and revel in the fact that you are being poured with mud, or what? fool
                      29. Joker
                        Joker 23 October 2012 17: 32
                        +5
                        What kind of people are we that we rally only before an external threat, and in a quiet time we are ready to bite each other. Is it time for the Russian people to make peace among themselves ...?

                        So we don’t seem to swear, although I don’t quite agree with the position of Sparrow and Romanov, but I will always be a mountain for them, old-timers hi we argue that the main thing is not to get personal and all will be normal.
                      30. Yarbay
                        Yarbay 23 October 2012 20: 15
                        +4
                        Quote: Dobrokhod Sergey
                        Are you talking about the Cossacks of General Krasnov and about the Security Corps now talking?
                        Or about Kolchakovtsev?
                        We are talking about Suvorov !!
                        About those soldiers and officers that drove Napoleon !!
                        They drove and defeated enemies with the name of God on their lips, and not idols and various gods invented!
                      31. Dimych
                        Dimych 23 October 2012 16: 28
                        +2
                        And in the Great Patriotic War, what officers rose and died? And in Afghanistan? Many of them were party members. Where to rank them?
                      32. Alexander Romanov
                        Alexander Romanov 23 October 2012 16: 44
                        +4
                        Quote: Dimych
                        Many of them were party members. Where to rank them?

                        Only after the first battles many of the party began to turn to God. And where they will be ranked at the top will be judged in due time.
                      33. Yarbay
                        Yarbay 23 October 2012 21: 58
                        +3
                        Quote: Dimych
                        And in the Great Patriotic War, what officers rose and died? And in Afghanistan? Many of them were party members. Where to rank them?

                        Same way!
                        in World War II, didn’t the whole front fly with the icon on the orders of Stalin ??
                        And what did officers in the Great Patriotic War or in Afghanistan believe in perun or another Slavic god?
                      34. Uncle Serozha
                        Uncle Serozha 23 October 2012 23: 09
                        +5
                        Quote: Dimych
                        And in the Great Patriotic War, what officers rose and died? And in Afghanistan? Many of them were party members. Where to rank them?

                        Part - to believers, most - to atheists.

                        Quote: Yarbay
                        Same way!
                        in World War II, didn’t the whole front fly with the icon on the orders of Stalin ??

                        Not an argument. Flying around the front with an icon did not make communists and atheists believers. By the way, they circled around like Moscow, and not the front (what? There were a lot of them).

                        Quote: Yarbay

                        And what did officers in the Great Patriotic War or in Afghanistan believe in perun or another Slavic god?

                        No. For the most part were atheists. If you served in the Soviet Army, then you cannot but understand that this is so. Especially in relation to the officer corps.
                        And the party political work in the troops made them patriots of their country and convinced and ideological fighters. If any of them believed in Perun (as well as Christ, Allah, or Krishna), this would hardly have a strong effect.
                  2. vorobey
                    vorobey 23 October 2012 15: 07
                    +5
                    Quote: Fox 070
                    Fox 070 (4) Today, 14:40 ↑ ↓ 0
                    Quote: Gogh
                    Well, Colleague and there were successors to Hitler - neopagans

                    Can you justify this?


                    Pius XI in May 1938 in Castelgandolfo, where he retired during Hitler’s visit to Rome in protest against the Führer, who did not want to ask the Pope for an audience, said the following words: “Sad events take place, very sad, far and near. And here is one of them: it does not seem too inappropriate and untimely to establish in Rome, on the day of the Holy Cross, the sign of another cross, not Christ. " Pope had in mind the swastika that adorned the Italian capital in honor of the German guest. The image of the opposition of the two crosses, painted by Pius XI, symbolically indicates the opposition of National Socialism to the Christian Churches.

                    The hostility of Nazism towards the Churches was not just the hostility of the totalitarian regime towards the institution, which to some extent limited its absolute power over German society. Indeed, National Socialism is an ideology that acquires the characteristic features of a new secular religion, which claims to totalitarian domination of the Germans.

                    Article 24 of the program of the National Socialist Workers' Party, adopted on February 20, 1920, proclaimed "freedom of all religious denominations of the state, if they do not constitute a danger to the state and do not harm the morality and moral feeling of the German race. The party as such supports positive Christianity, but does not enter into an alliance in matters of faith with any denomination. " “Positive Christianity,” according to Nazi thought, was identified with National Socialism, and a new revelation appeared in Hitler, as Minister for Church Affairs Hans Keller announced in 1937: “The party is based on the foundation of positive Christianity, that is, National Socialism. The latter comes from the will of God, revealed in German blood. To say that Christianity consists in faith in Christ, the Son of God, is ridiculous. True Christianity is represented by the party and the German people, called upon by the Führer to fulfill true and concrete Christianity. The Führer embodies a new revelation. "

                    Biological racism, which found its theoretical embodiment in the work of Alfred Rosenberg Der Mythus des 20 Jahrhunderts, was a neopaganism that sought to introduce a new religion into the German people. The ideologist of Nazism proposed excluding the Old Testament from Christianity, purifying the New Testament from the messages of the Apostle Paul and creating a Germanic church based on blood, race and earth. It was a radically anti-Christian idolatry of blood, race and nation. In German blood, they intended to defend the very divine nature of man: “A new faith is being proclaimed: the myth of blood, the belief that together with blood we protect the very divine essence of man, faith embodied in the clearest consciousness that Nordic blood represents a mystery that replaced and overcame the ancient sacraments. " Rosenberg's theories were not always officially proclaimed, but they represented the heart of ideology, which manifested itself over time. In the student newspaper Kiel in 1935, one can read: "We do not recognize any international religion of mankind, since peoples and races are different ... We no longer believe the Holy Spirit, we believe in the sanctity of blood."
                    1. vorobey
                      vorobey 23 October 2012 15: 09
                      +5
                      It was a religion of race and blood. The neopaganism proposed by the theorist of national socialism aroused the concern of the German bishops. The declaration of the bishops of the province of Paderboma, published on March 10, 1931, reveals a religious understanding of the comparison with Nazism: "National Socialism is not only a political party, it also represents a comprehensive understanding of the world and as such requires a clear position with regard to religion."

                      Nazism, deifying the leader and race, became idolatry, going beyond any of the most fiery nationalism. In this sense, the statements of the German nurse in the study for the beatification of Father Tito Brandsm, the Dutch Carmelite who was killed in Dachau, are of great importance. This woman was present during the experiments in Dachau, she gave a fatal injection of carbolic acid to Brandsma's father. She stated: “When I was sixteen, I went to Berlin as a Red Cross nurse. There we had to swear that we considered Hitler to be a god, and to sign a promise to never go to church again. The church and everything else was just a pose. All Jews had to be destroyed. That was the beginning of our upbringing. ” This German testimony clearly shows Nazi education in the spirit of idolatry.
                      http://www.stepantsov.info/wp/?p=1327 еще?
                      1. vadimN
                        vadimN 23 October 2012 15: 55
                        +1
                        Quote: vorobey
                        The neopaganism proposed by the theorist of national socialism aroused the concern of the German bishops.


                        Here is how the German bishops "preoccupied" fascism:


                        Here is the source for you. Then judge for yourself:
                        "We will not tolerate anyone in our ranks who attacks the ideas of Christianity ... in fact, our movement is Christian."
                        Adolf Gitler. Speech in Passau, October 27 1928

                        Chapter 10 of the first part of "Mein Kampf" is devoted to the question of the importance of religion for the preservation of the morality and unity of the German nation.

                        Doesn’t resemble the thoughts of the ardent defenders of Christianity on this site?
                      2. vadimN
                        vadimN 23 October 2012 15: 59
                        +3
                        On the badges of the SS men's belts was the inscription "God with us!" ...
                      3. vorobey
                        vorobey 23 October 2012 16: 04
                        +1
                        And you do not listen to the opponent. already gave a reference, read carefully.
                      4. Fox 070
                        Fox 070 23 October 2012 16: 12
                        0
                        Quote: vorobey
                        It was a religion of race and blood. The neopaganism proposed by the theorist of national socialism aroused the concern of the German bishops.

                        Are you talking about this concern?
                      5. Dobrokhod Sergey
                        Dobrokhod Sergey 23 October 2012 16: 20
                        0
                        vorobey

                        What was written on the badges of the soldiers of the Wehrmacht and the SS?
                      6. vadimN
                        vadimN 23 October 2012 16: 28
                        +1
                        Quote: Dobrokhod Sergey
                        What was written on the badges of the soldiers of the Wehrmacht and the SS?


                        Read it yourself. Don't know German? I will translate: "God is with us."
                      7. Alexander Romanov
                        Alexander Romanov 23 October 2012 16: 52
                        +4
                        The inscription was not only on the ss, all Wehrmacht soldiers had such an inscription. This is only an inscription and no more. There is no faith and deeds for this inscription. A believer will not exterminate people by millions. You can talk about faith, but talking does not mean to believe! !!
                      8. d.gksueyjd
                        d.gksueyjd 27 October 2012 02: 48
                        0
                        Quote: Alexander Romanov
                        A believer will not exterminate people in millions

                        Your priests called Saint Nicholas 2 whom the people called bloody, even before the Bolsheviks arrived. I am for St. Alexander Nevsky, Dmitry Donskoy and many other worthy Russian heroes - but call the murderer, Yeltsin and Chubais saints.
                        I sincerely respect believers, but when a person says one thing and does the other, being covered by faith, what do you call him?
                      9. Alexander Romanov
                        Alexander Romanov 27 October 2012 03: 29
                        0
                        Quote: d.gksueyjd

                        Your priests called Saint Nicholas 2 whom the people called bloody

                        He was not called bloody by the people, but by your fucking revolutorships, who later blew up the churches. Yes, and how much is known from the history of Donskoy and Nevsky, are practically snippets of time. And if Nikolai was counted, then there was no reason. I would not pay for Russia. He paid with his life and the lives of his loved ones and children.
                        Quote: d.gksueyjd
                        but when a person says one thing and does the other, being blocked by faith, what do you call him?

                        This is about whom?
                      10. d.gksueyjd
                        d.gksueyjd 27 October 2012 18: 18
                        +1
                        Of course there was a reason: he threw Russia into the meat grinder of the Russo-Japanese war, but if it is somehow late in connection with the actions of Japan, then what justifies Russia's entry into the 1st World War; the collapse and impoverishment of Russia during the reign of this freak; 2 revolutions of 1905 and 1917
                        "Fucking" revolutionaries made clubs out of churches, and "democrats" made clubs out of churches.
                        ADULT, a reasonable person himself has the opportunity to choose - to believe or not to believe, to be Orthodox or Muslim, but children must be PROTECTED from the influence of any religion --- THERE IS NO CHOICE! They tried to force my son to study Orthodoxy in school, in Muslim countries, children are forced to study Islam.
                        In Russia, the Church is separated from the state.
                      11. d.gksueyjd
                        d.gksueyjd 28 October 2012 22: 23
                        0
                        Of course, not about you, but about priests, imams, and others
                      12. Dobrokhod Sergey
                        Dobrokhod Sergey 23 October 2012 17: 09
                        0
                        Quote: vadimN
                        Read it yourself. Don't know German? I will translate: "God is with us."

                        I do not need. sparrow, please.
                      13. Yarbay
                        Yarbay 23 October 2012 20: 18
                        +3
                        Quote: vadimN
                        Read it yourself. Don't know German? I will translate: "God is with us."

                        Let's not mix one with the other !!
                        When they wrote God they had in mind their Aryan gods, simply with these words they tried to instill in themselves the hearts of believers !!
                        Read the story carefully !!
                        Who did the Nazis believe in, what persecution was at the church !!
                      14. vorobey
                        vorobey 23 October 2012 16: 45
                        +3
                        Quote: Dobrokhod Sergey
                        What was written on the badges of the soldiers of the Wehrmacht and the SS?


                        The words.

                        The answer here is don't get smart. Words are known to be different from deeds.

                        Quote: Fox 070
                        Are you talking about this concern?


                        Nerd what relation to the Russian Orthodox Church she has. Interfere with porridge
                4. vadimN
                  vadimN 23 October 2012 14: 48
                  0
                  Quote: Gogh
                  more highly organized forms of statehood and the forms of religion corresponding to this state system.


                  Dear Goga! All over the world, "highly organized forms of statehood" consciously and diligently separate themselves from church and religion. And this is the only correct way not to create a split within your own country on a religious basis!
                  1. Alexander Romanov
                    Alexander Romanov 23 October 2012 15: 03
                    +4
                    Quote: vadimN

                    Dear Goga! All over the World "highly organized forms of statehood"

                    It’s highly organized in the geyropa, and so they are breastfeeding for gays and other perverts.
                    1. lelikas
                      lelikas 23 October 2012 16: 03
                      -1
                      Quote: Alexander Romanov
                      breastfeeding for gays and others
                      -
                      who are breastfeeding, who are scribbling, they love this thing laughing
                  2. Joker
                    Joker 23 October 2012 17: 39
                    +3
                    All over the world, "highly organized forms of statehood" consciously and diligently separate themselves from church and religion. And this is the only correct way not to create a split within your own country on a religious basis!

                    And here I do not agree with you, they separated it, and what did it lead to? Besides the fact that they have pedophiles, gays, lesbians walking around the streets and enjoy life, and normal people, not flawed, most of whom should keep their mouths shut, take away the church and morality will immediately fall in the country. But there will be no split, we have the official religion of Orthodoxy, so let it be, if you are an atheist then be an atheist, a Gentile, a Gentile, the main thing is to show respect for each other and not to impose questions of faith on others without their consent, that’s all what is needed. We in Russia lack respect for people, and not even for people but for ourselves, and this not only concerns faith, but also other issues, as soon as this respect appears, all the problems will run out by themselves.
                    1. vadimN
                      vadimN 24 October 2012 11: 38
                      +3
                      Quote: Joker
                      We in Russia lack respect for people, and not even for people but for ourselves, and this not only concerns faith, but also other issues, as soon as this respect appears, all the problems will run out by themselves.



                      I absolutely agree with you, and not only with the sentence quoted, but with all my thoughts ... But, looking at the unbiased look at the discussion, I see the following: There is some misunderstanding between the debaters! All defenders of Christianity in general, and Orthodoxy in particular, actively defend this religion, even conceived blindly. But the opponents are far from homogeneous. Most of them are NOT AGAINST Orthodoxy. Let us share objective criticism and attack.
                      To criticize does not mean to be against. More often the opposite. He criticizes those who want faith and the church to be clean, cast out all dirty scum.
                      Then people's trust will return and grow stronger. We now see the opposite picture. The top of the ROC and part of the "middle level" demonstrate by no means Christian behavior, and from the leadership of the ROC we see attempts not to fight the shortcomings, but to hide them! And blind defenders of the faith in this actively contribute to the corruption of the church, attacking critics.

                      We are not against faith! We are against those "ministers" who have adhered to the faith, turning it into a source of profit and permissiveness!

                      Answer simple questions:
                      1. Why a drunken "father" can drive through the streets in an expensive foreign car and make accidents, and the recording of his eccentricities in the DVR "eats up the virus". And an ordinary person can go to jail for this. Why?
                      2. Why are expensive gifts made supposedly by the church end up in the private use of priests (mostly of high rank), and not sent to good deeds?
                      3. Why can Kirkorov be sung from the pulpit, where the laity do not have entry, but the common man does not?
                      4. Why does property restitution apply to former church possessions, but not to private property?
                      5. Why does the state finance the church from the state budget, that is, with the money of all citizens, even those who do not believe or profess other religions?
                      6. Why does the business of church structures have tax benefits, but the usual private business does not?
                      7. Why was this business built on the importation of godly things (tobacco, alcohol) into the country during the most difficult and hungry times of rapid restructuring?
                      8. Why is everything possible in the main temple of Russia (HHS) for money, as in an ordinary business center or tavern?

                      ... You can go on for a long time, but it hardly makes sense. Now the "defenders of faith" will lash out ... But what does VERA have to do with it? Rejection and disgust are not caused by faith, but by the transformation of faith into business! That would be to direct your energy to fight against something, you look, and our church will only strengthen its authority, and not only among blind followers, but also among sane citizens who see everything and are able to think critically.
                      1. vadimN
                        vadimN 24 October 2012 18: 21
                        +1
                        In the same topic:

                        http://www.autonews.ru/autobusiness/news.shtml?2012/10/24/1742633
                      2. d.gksueyjd
                        d.gksueyjd 28 October 2012 22: 31
                        0
                        vadimN,
                        Quote: vadimN
                        We are not against faith! We are against those "ministers" who have adhered to the faith, turning it into a source of profit and permissiveness!

                        Thank you, in your words the whole truth about the current religion of ALL CONCESSIONS!
                5. Ross
                  Ross 23 October 2012 15: 32
                  +1
                  Goga,
                  Does the people of at least one modern state (of any significance) profess paganism?

                  Greetings Igor! It is unfortunate that you are a colleague too succumbed to cliches.
                  How do you like this list of pagan countries:
                  1. China
                  2. Korea,
                  3 Japan
                  4. India
                  5. Thailand
                  Continue?
                  It is just that at a certain stage in the development of society, both the tribal organization of this society and the corresponding pagan religion are not viable in the confrontation with more highly organized forms of statehood and the forms of religion corresponding to this state system.

                  Igor, who inspired you with this? A colleague did not expect from you. By your logic, the new religion of Liberalism, as a more progressive one, should soon sweep backward regimes.
                  the successors of Hitler's cause - neo-pagans (- quote - "... the official religious doctrine of Nazi Germany was neo-paganism cultivated by Hitler himself ...).

                  Look at the photo below, this is, among other things, the Jewish synagogue in Israel.
                  Image of a swastika on the floor of the most ancient Ain Jedi synagogue in Israel
                  1. vadimN
                    vadimN 23 October 2012 16: 11
                    +1
                    And not only in Israel .... Here you have the emblems of the Kalmyk units of the south-eastern front of the Red Army. introduced by Order No.213 of 1919 of the year.

                    Until Hitler scolded the swastika with his dirty hands, it was (and is!) A bright symbol of the Sun and Life in all the Vedic religions of the World.
                    1. Dobrokhod Sergey
                      Dobrokhod Sergey 23 October 2012 17: 07
                      0
                      Quote: vadimN
                      bright symbol of the Sun and Life in all the Vedic religions of the World.

                      And not only the Vedic ones. In the ornaments of many peoples of the world, the Russian, Finno-Ugric peoples have more than 140 swastic symbols. They are in Christian culture, and in particular in Orthodoxy.
                  2. vladimir64ss
                    vladimir64ss 23 October 2012 18: 21
                    -1
                    Quote: Ross
                    How do you like this list of pagan countries:
                    1. China
                    2. Korea,
                    3 Japan
                    4. India
                    5. Thailand
                    Continue?

                    That's the level of controversy! Vedicism (paganism) is more about Slavs.
              2. Dobrokhod Sergey
                Dobrokhod Sergey 23 October 2012 11: 58
                0
                Quote: vorobey
                Well, yes, I agree with the demolitions of the churches and the shooting of the priests, this is a reconstruction. there was no persecution.

                And what do you propose to do if the church called not only for an armed struggle against the Soviet regime, but also directly participated in military formations. No need to build from some monsters, but from other white and fluffy lambs.
              3. Ross
                Ross 23 October 2012 12: 31
                +3
                vorobey,
                For some reason, many do not pay attention to the fact that in 1917-1920s the Bolsheviks massively expropriated values ​​from the population, gold, etc. Read the same Bunich - Party Gold. All the gold migrated to Swiss banks. And then the "leaders" of the project recounted the values ​​and said little! Not all collected yet. Guess where else have you forgotten? In the church, of course. This is the main reason for the "persecution" of the Bolsheviks. That is why Tikhon and the cardinals of the church have maintained neutrality up to this point. They are used to working with the authorities.
                1. vorobey
                  vorobey 23 October 2012 13: 13
                  +5
                  Quote: Ross
                  This is the main reason for the "persecution" of the Bolsheviks.


                  Consolidation of the people is the main reason for the persecution of the church.

                  Choose a basis and you will get a herd obeying.
                  1. Dobrokhod Sergey
                    Dobrokhod Sergey 23 October 2012 14: 35
                    +1
                    Quote: vorobey
                    Consolidation of the people is the main reason for the persecution of the church.


                    Do not give out wishful thinking.
                  2. baltika-18
                    baltika-18 23 October 2012 14: 43
                    +3
                    Quote: vorobey
                    Consolidation of the people is the main reason for the persecution of the church.

                    It is not possible to consolidate the society on religious grounds, this is a misconception, and it’s also dangerous. Consolidation of the society can be based on ideas, goals and objectives that are attractive to all members of the society. Goals and tasks that you will need to strive for, for which the state is created and works .This is the state ideology-a set of ideas, goals and objectives for the implementation of which the state exists.
                    Quote: vorobey
                    Choose a basis and you will get a herd obeying.
                    Religion is a means of subjugating people, since you are a believer, you must know the dogmas of the church, remember what they say. "All power is from God", "Not resisting evil by violence" —these two are enough to understand the essence of religion.
                  3. Fox 070
                    Fox 070 23 October 2012 15: 09
                    +1
                    Quote: vorobey
                    Choose a foundation

                    Yes, understand that Vera was NEVER a rallying factor for the Slavs in their entire history. Love for our homeland, my family, respect and reverence for the deeds of our ancestors - this is what united our ancestors, it also rallied our fathers (of which 70% were atheists) during times of deprivation and heavy battles of World War II.
                    It was this foundation that was knocked out from under our feet, forcing us to worship the "golden calf" and making us a "consumer society". That's what you need to think about, and not measure up against whom Vera is cooler.
                    1. vorobey
                      vorobey 23 October 2012 15: 23
                      +1
                      Fox, I answered you above. Now let's not touch the Slavs, otherwise there will be no peace.
                      1. Fox 070
                        Fox 070 23 October 2012 16: 17
                        0
                        Quote: vorobey
                        Now let's not touch the Slavs, otherwise there will be no peace.

                        Yes? And what can make us start a war? After all, according to Christian canons "God is Love".
                      2. vorobey
                        vorobey 23 October 2012 16: 48
                        +2
                        The provocateur you are Fox. I’m telling you in person.

                        Quote: Fox 070
                        Quote: vorobey
                        Now let's not touch the Slavs, otherwise there will be no peace.

                        Yes? And what can make us start a war? After all, according to Christian canons "God is Love".


                        I did not say a word about the war, and which of us is aggressive?
                      3. Fox 070
                        Fox 070 23 October 2012 17: 18
                        0
                        Quote: vorobey
                        I did not say a word about the war, and which of us is aggressive?

                        Quote: vorobey
                        otherwise there will be no peace.

                        And what's that? Peacemaker ...
                        Quote: vorobey
                        The provocateur you are Fox.

                        And you are a demagogue! And this I also tell you in the face!
                      4. vorobey
                        vorobey 23 October 2012 17: 40
                        +1
                        Quote: Fox 070
                        Quote: vorobey
                        I did not say a word about the war, and which of us is aggressive?


                        Quote: vorobey
                        otherwise there will be no peace.

                        And what's that? Peacemaker ...

                        Quote: vorobey
                        The provocateur you are Fox.

                        And you are a demagogue! And this I also tell you in the face!


                        Fox grow you also grow. Demagogy (Greek děmagôgía, demos - people and ágo - I lead), deceit by false promises, intentional perversion of facts.

                        The demagogue is just you who interferes all in one pile, and even provoking your opponent.
                      5. Fox 070
                        Fox 070 23 October 2012 18: 27
                        +1
                        Quote: vorobey
                        Fox grow you also grow.

                        But how do you, sparrow, say that you would not offend? I'll try ...
                        I have room to grow and I will certainly grow spiritually, but you have already stopped in your growth and all the remaining energy in you goes to the toilet. And the brain dries out without energy. So draw your conclusions.
                        Quote: vorobey
                        and even provoking an opponent.

                        I have always been not interested in reading what you write, so I’ll only say this line: here you are a provocateur and religious extremist, and if all of them are faithful, then you render your religion a disservice, strengthening people in their rejection of Christianity in general and faith in particular . Keep up the good work and tomorrow there will be more of us. WELL DONE. hi
                      6. GG2012
                        GG2012 23 October 2012 18: 37
                        0
                        Quote: vorobey
                        The provocateur you are Fox. I’m telling you in person.

                        Oh! A sparrow is flying !!!
              4. Dobrokhod Sergey
                Dobrokhod Sergey 23 October 2012 12: 41
                +1
                Quote: vorobey
                Do not be disingenuous if even Stalin caught himself.


                Wondered what?
          2. GG2012
            GG2012 23 October 2012 14: 16
            +1
            Quote: vorobey
            if faith were weak

            1. Tell me, what organ in the human body is responsible for "faith"?
            Maybe it’s the liver, or the kidneys, or the pituitary gland, or the temporal lobes, or ...?
            Do you have an additional organ in the body?
            Tell me what ...

            2. "Faith" is one of the functions of our psyche, which is expressed in an uncritical perception of information. You probably know the expression "Take on faith", i.e. became a reality without verification.
            Why is this happening? Because, some centers of the brain are depressed. The causes of depression can be anything: pre birth trauma, childhood trauma, ear disease, naked nose, nose in childhood, stress, ...
            To give the usual mental function "FAITH" - the sacred subtext was invented even before the Jews. The Jews simply continued this tradition.
            Why was this done? The answer is obvious: in life there was so much that was not explainable, not understandable. And suddenly "there appears a god" in whose name, at least some explanation is given. In addition, so much has been written about God that if you start to understand this scripture, you will definitely come to the conclusion that what is written is FALSE.
            But there is a way out ... if everything written is taken on faith (without checking), then ... and now you are already a believer!

            Uv. "Sparrow", please comment on the above.
            1. vorobey
              vorobey 23 October 2012 15: 30
              +1
              GG2012,
              I will comment if you give a clear definition of the concepts of spirit and soul, and why a person’s body after death becomes several grams less. (excluding excreted feces).
              What leaves him with the last breath?
              1. GG2012
                GG2012 23 October 2012 15: 35
                +1
                Quote: vorobey
                I will comment if

                Slipped? Weak? ...
                1. vorobey
                  vorobey 23 October 2012 16: 08
                  +1
                  Quote: GG2012
                  Slipped? Weak? ...


                  Sparrows on weakly take an ungrateful affair - not being conducted. and slide not in my rules.

                  You yourself answered Faith either there is or not, and what to take on faith is a free choice. You have your own. I have mine.

                  Now your move is about spirit and soul.
                  1. GG2012
                    GG2012 23 October 2012 17: 10
                    0
                    Quote: vorobey
                    Sparrows on weakly take an ungrateful affair - not being conducted. and slide not in my rules.

                    Did you rewrite it from your notebook (section - "cool quotes")?
                    Quote: vorobey
                    You yourself answered Faith either there is or not, and what to take on faith is a free choice.

                    You have not read my comment in full.
                    And as a consequence ...
                    Quote: vorobey
                    You have your own. I have mine.
                    . This statement is a confirmation of this.

                    Spirit is Life. Each of us has a Spirit. Even when our bodies die, the Spirit does not die, continues to live.
                    The Soul is the face and memory of our Spirit.
                    Nothing religious here. Everything is exclusively Natural.
                    The priesthood has arrogated to itself a monopoly on these terms and distorts them for its own sake.

                    PS And you did not answer my question to you! Just otmazyvatsya my words.
                    It turns out ... you are weak!
                    What kind of Sparrow are you after that ... ???

                    PS
                    "Who's tweeting there ?!"
                    "This is Me! Eagle !!!"
                    "Why so small?"
                    "I'm sick"
                    1. vorobey
                      vorobey 23 October 2012 17: 34
                      +1
                      Spirit is Life. Each of us has a Spirit. Even when our bodies die, the Spirit does not die, continues to live.
                      The Soul is the face and memory of our Spirit.
                      Nothing religious here. Everything is exclusively Natural.
                      The priesthood has arrogated to itself a monopoly on these terms and distorts them to itself for the sake of

                      Read Dalia Russian you ours.


                      Quote: GG2012
                      PS And you did not answer my question to you! Just otmazyvatsya my words.
                      It turns out ... you are weak!
                      What kind of Sparrow are you after that ... ???

                      Quote: GG2012

                      Uv. "Sparrow", please comment on the above.



                      A man, if you are a man, you are responsible for the words. Have you seen the comment or do you want to see the organ?
                      1. GG2012
                        GG2012 23 October 2012 17: 55
                        0
                        Quote: vorobey
                        Have you seen the comment or do you want to see the organ?

                        Are you an exhibitionist? Or do you have a problem with this?
                        From scan your organ, replicate, hang on pillars, ... and let you feel better.
                        Can't keep the answer? Be patient !!!
                        And you flap your wings ... I, too, Montana!


                        About Dahl ...
                        I answered you with my simple and clear language.
                        And you are probably used to using other people's thoughts, words, quotes, religion, ...
                        Do you have anything of your own ?!
                        Oh! I forgot !!! ... In your head stands ChristoWindows. But he unfortunately blocks the development of personality and hangs regularly !!!
                  2. Fox 070
                    Fox 070 23 October 2012 17: 58
                    -3
                    Quote: vorobey
                    Sparrows on weakly take a thankless job

                    Come on you! In addition to the monotonous repetition of the same thing, nothing is heard from you. hi
              2. Dobrokhod Sergey
                Dobrokhod Sergey 23 October 2012 16: 26
                -1
                Quote: vorobey
                What leaves him with the last breath?


                Sharp contraction of all muscles and displacement of air from the lungs. That is the whole mystery of leaving the "spirit" from the "soul".
                1. vorobey
                  vorobey 23 October 2012 16: 55
                  +4
                  Quote: Dobrokhod Sergey
                  Sharp contraction of all muscles and displacement of air from the lungs. That is the whole mystery of leaving the "spirit" from the "soul".


                  When a man who was torn in half by a grenade was dying in my hands, there were several of these contractions and they felt because he held his hand and the last exhalation was somewhat later than the last muscle contraction.

                  Although Che explain to you. You are the smartest.
                  1. Dobrokhod Sergey
                    Dobrokhod Sergey 23 October 2012 17: 02
                    -1
                    Quote: vorobey
                    Although Che explain to you. You are the smartest.


                    And you yourself don’t get smart.
              3. Dimych
                Dimych 23 October 2012 16: 38
                0
                Air and go. He also has weight. And if we assume that these few grams fall on the soul, it turns out that it has a material, not divine origin.
          3. Vitalievich
            Vitalievich 27 October 2012 01: 57
            +1
            For 70 years of persecution of the church, the Bolsheviks have not reached even a tenth of WHAT that Gundyaev and Chaplin have "achieved" in recent years!
        2. Vitalievich
          Vitalievich 27 October 2012 01: 42
          +2
          Perhaps it would have taken "far from the last" .. if not Kiril with the crow
          -againted all the domes of Orthodox churches .. sad
          And in Ukraine scavengers wind up the price list .. feasting on bones!
    2. ZAVET
      ZAVET 23 October 2012 11: 27
      +7
      See the root. K. Prutkov.
      The facts:
      1. In the first lesson of religious studies, students will learn: The abramic cult consists of
      - Judaism
      - Islam
      -Christianity
      In Judaism, Judeo-Christianity, Islam, the same creatures for worship.
      Judo-Christianity can only be considered within the framework of the Abramistic cult.
      For example, Judaism calls on Jews to rule, and the Jewish religion of their adherents obeys. Everything is interconnected.
      2. On the Russian land the Bible in the RUSSIAN language - the BASIS of Judaism appeared a little more than a hundred years ago. This is the so-called synodal translation of the Bible of 1876.
      3. The Bible in RUSSIAN appeared due to the activities of the freemason Drozdov, who was almost imprisoned for anti-Russian activities.
      What did Drozdov do? That's right, he created a Masonic organization - the All-Russian Bible Society. The purpose of this anti-Russian society was to create
      Bibles in Russian.
      Later, Drozdov accepted Judo Christianity and quickly became Archimandrite Filaret. After which he calmly bungled the Bible in Russian in 1976.
      4. The bible in Russian was based on books
      - Textus Recipe Erasmus of Rotherdam 4 edition of 1624 (officially)
      Textus Recipe in the TWENTIETH century began to be called the Gospel (New Testament).
      Textus Recipe Language - Greek.
      - Masora, that is, the author’s vision of 19th-century Jewish rabbis on biblical history.
      Masora became the Old Testament.
      Masora tongue - Hebrew.
      Thus, the Bible as well as Judo-Christianity is a NEW CONCEPT.
      5. Modern chronology appeared due to the activities of the KABBALIST JEWISH - Scaliger, who, using KABBALISTICS, calculated the circumcision of Jesus Christ, and not his birth (remember first Christmas, then New Year). This calendar began to be introduced no earlier than the 18th century.
      1. ZAVET
        ZAVET 23 October 2012 11: 28
        +4
        6. In Tekstut Recipe (gospel), the main creature is Kyrios.
        In Masor (Old Testament) - Eloh (Allah), Yahweh (Egova), Elohim, Adonea.
        The concept of “Lord God” appeared as it should be only with the advent of the Bible in Russian in 1876. "Lord God" is a REPLACEMENT of the concepts of Eloh (Allah), Yahweh (Egov), Elohim, Adonea, Kyrios.
        God is an ancient concept that occurs only in the Russian language (at least 5 thousand years) and Sanskrit (15 thousand years) and has nothing to do with Judo-Christianity.
        7. REPLACEMENT of the concept of "Orthodox" is the Russian concept of Orthodoxy.
        Orthodoxy has two roots, translated as "the right teaching."
        8. Orthodox Judo-Christian replaces many Russian SYMBOLS
        For example, the Virgin Mary (which is translated from the Hebrew language means “bitterness”) REPLACED the Motherland, Mother the earth with cheese.
        The image of the Motherland is still alive IN THE RUSSIAN PEOPLE.
        9. The man by KIDNAME Jesus Christ - Circumcised Semite Negro.
        In the Old and New Testaments there are transfers - one Jew gave birth to another, that of the third. This is a listing of the ALIEN KIND of Jews.
        10. The rite of "baptism" of cannibalism is central in Judo-Christianity when CHILDREN drink Ethyl - (a potent narcotic drug leading to paralysis of the nervous system) - Wine is the blood of a Negro named Christ, and his flesh is eaten.
        11. Judokhristiansvo was imposed on RUSSIAN land by doing
        Priests orthodox functions of the modern registry office. Born to church, married there, etc.
        12. The spread of the Judeo-Christian names (Vanka Dimka Sashki, etc.) received only at the end of the 19th century. Prior to this, among the peasantry (95 percent of the population) they were not used.
        13. Judo-Christianity promotes the cult of WEAKNESS, addiction, drug use - Ethyl. No one is going to church at the moment.
        14. The modern Abramic cult, incl. Judo-Christianity - The Media.

        So is the “Russian Orthodox Church” really Russian and Orthodox?
        For what purpose did the NEROSS cult, the NERUS chronology, the NERUS slave worldview be introduced on Russian soil?
        Why change RUSSIAN names to strangers and destroy RUSSIAN SYMBOLS?
        Judo-Christianity is a cult of WEAKNESS
        We Russes (without dividing into Ukrainians, Belarusians and Russians), our clan - should be STRONG. This is a natural aspiration.
        1. ZAVET
          ZAVET 23 October 2012 11: 30
          +2
          Weak people love their own slack. They rush with her, demonstrate her in every possible way. They kind of say, “We are weak. Take care of us. We cannot survive. Help. ”They provoke pity. In this they see their strength. Their strength lies in demonstrated weakness. In imposed weakness. In fact, they have no desire to become strong. Im so good. They have so many different excuses for not achieving goals. They, like shackles, sag on the legs of a strong person and require protection. Moreover, if you carefully consider it, it turns out that all their weakness is of a mythological nature. She is a myth. These myths are either created by the weakest or accepted from the outside, to justify their own inability to achieve.

          There is a cult of weakness in current civilization. It is cultivated by both the powers that be and the mass consciousness. It is much easier to control, manipulate the weak. He is not independent, he chews Orbits, cleans Comet, drinks beer, watches football, gets sick, goes to work, swears with his wife. It is standard, predictable, send. They manipulate him, experiencing contempt and disgust for him. He swallows everything, agrees on everything. He has no strength to sustain life. He has a pose of submission. There are no ideas, no actions. Lives like everyone else. This justifies his life. But what, I, like everyone else, are no different. And they don’t touch me. He is afraid to lean out. He is intimidated. His brain is washed.

          Strong another. And they do not like him. A strong person takes responsibility for his own life himself, without asking anyone. He just takes it. This is quite a natural thing for him. And with this simple act, he is already falling out of the general row. Immediately a shaft of moans and lamentations of the others falls upon him. They don’t understand how it can be taken responsibility for everything that happens to you, happened and will happen. They begin to frighten him with the various horrors of life. “You will break, you will not be able to, they will offend you, they will kill you, they will cripple you; don’t go there, don’t eat, don’t look, don’t do it. We all tried it, and look what they did to us. We are crippled, weak. We have failed. If we didn’t succeed, then nothing will work out for you.
          Most people are much stronger than they think, they just forget sometimes to believe it.
          The weak is afraid, the strong is fearless. A weak one asks for help, but at a difficult moment he will leave you. Strong does not ask for anything, but can support you. Make friends with the strong, look suspiciously at the weak. The strong one needs help to realize his strength. A weak person needs help to be convinced of his weakness. Help the strong, become stronger. Helping the weak will make you weaker. Love people not for weaknesses, but for strength. Respect the power in man, love it. Communicate with anyone as strong. Communicate with the power that is in everyone. By doing so, you can help. You will begin to awaken strength in him, and not to notice weakness, not to confirm weakness. Demand from others to communicate with you as a strong one. In this way, you will increase the presence of strength in your environment and reduce the presence of weakness. Your life will improve ..

          Full text at https://radosvet.net/15133-silnyy-i-slabyy.html
          1. sania1304
            sania1304 23 October 2012 11: 50
            -1
            Well, write complete nonsense. Drozdov conducted anti-Russian activities? Either you are a complete zero in this matter, or you have read some kind of nonsense. I don’t even want to analyze all this extensive commentary - an ungrateful affair.
          2. baltika-18
            baltika-18 23 October 2012 12: 43
            0
            Quote: ZAVET
            The man by KIDNAME Jesus Christ - Circumcised Semite Negro.

            Everyone sailed. The testament bore. Question where will it bring?
    3. Lucky
      Lucky 23 October 2012 15: 19
      +2
      right now there is a revival of faith !!
    4. WW3
      WW3 23 October 2012 15: 29
      +3
      Faith rallies the people, it is a pity that little attention is paid to this now (

      I agree with you! With faith, it is easier to win.
      A soldier whom no one taught to pray, having come out alive from a terrible battle, said: “In the midst of a battle, a man does not need clues on how to turn to God.”
      http://www.lepta.net/molitvy_1.html
      Atheist Bolsheviks blew up temples, but faith in hearts, she withstood the onslaught ...
      1. Dobrokhod Sergey
        Dobrokhod Sergey 23 October 2012 16: 32
        +1
        Quote: WW3
        With faith, it is easier to win.


        ON RELIGIOUS QUESTION
        "The great religious tolerance in Japan is very striking. In Tokyo, our father Nikolai 68 is one of the most popular people. But the mass of the so-called intelligent society with new reforms began to live in disbelief. In military schools, no religious education and upbringing is given. There are no temples at schools. The future officers do not pray to the Almighty, who looks at all peoples and all religions equally, neither in sorrow nor in joy. The same is true in the army. This is a great weakness of the Japanese army. Individuals can suffer heavy losses and hardships, but the masses cannot. In schools, instead of religion, the highest morality is taught: love for the motherland, the emperor, respect for the family. "
        From the diary of A. N. Kuropatkin

        And then there was the Russo-Japanese War of 1904-05.

        Yes, and in World War I especially faith did not help.
        1. Dobrokhod Sergey
          Dobrokhod Sergey 23 October 2012 16: 59
          0
          The one who put the minus, justify.
          Why didn’t you like the words of General Kuropatkin?
        2. WW3
          WW3 23 October 2012 17: 05
          +4
          During the First World War, the Russian Imperial Army was massively Orthodox and, therefore, the presence of worshipers in it was a necessity. The institute of military clergy appeared at the beginning of the 1720th century and was regulated by two chapters from the Peter's “Military Articles”: “On the Fear of God” and “On the Ministry of God and the Priests” (in the Navy - by the Maritime Charter of 1) [2]. According to the state, in each regiment there was one Orthodox priest and a clergyman who were obliged to conduct divine services, to confess and partake of the wounded, to bury and funeral for the dead, and also to inform relatives of the death. Also, priests were at the headquarters of the corps, armies and fronts. During the First World War, there was its own church (named after the righteous Nikolai (Kochanov)) at the headquarters of the Supreme Commander-in-Chief [1915]. In mid-1800, the number of clergy in the troops reached 3 [700]. At the end of the war, the department of the Protopresbyter of the Army and Navy consisted of up to 3000 clergymen of permanent composition and about 4 priests recruited from the dioceses [29]. In total, during the years of the First World War, according to the note of Protopresbyter G. Shavelsky to the People’s Commissariat for Military Affairs on January 1918, 40, 200 priests were killed or died from wounds, more than 100 were injured and shell shock, more than 5 were captured [14]. Moreover, 4 Orthodox clergymen received the Order of St. George of the 227th Art., 85 - a golden pectoral cross on the St. George ribbon, 3 - the Order of St. Vladimir of the 203rd Art. with swords, 4 - St. Vladimir, 304th century, 2 - Order of St. Anne, 239nd century, 3 - St. Anne, XNUMXrd

          http://hero1914.com/pravoslavnoe-duxovenstvo-na-zashhite-imperii/
  2. bpvo58
    bpvo58 23 October 2012 09: 28
    +3
    Yes, over the years you come to the conclusion that state support for religion is still necessary. It is better for foreheads to be smashed in state-controlled churches than for incomprehensible sects
    1. UI-Spb
      UI-Spb 23 October 2012 10: 01
      +5
      Why such arrogance towards believers? Belief in God is not a flaw, but the level of development of the soul. You will come to this conclusion over the years.
      1. vasev
        vasev 23 October 2012 10: 46
        0
        And where is the neglect?
        bpvo58 talks about religion, not about faith.
        Faith is a special condition of a person,
        while religion is a ritual that was invented to connect a person with God, and which have nothing in common with Faith.
        1. UI-Spb
          UI-Spb 23 October 2012 17: 42
          +1
          I believe you know that believers go to temples?
          bpvo58 spoke about breaking heads in churches. In your opinion, is this not an arrogant attitude towards believers?
      2. GG2012
        GG2012 23 October 2012 14: 41
        0
        Quote: UI-Spb
        Belief in God is not a flaw, but the level of development of the soul.

        Can be more?
        By your logic, Kirilushka Gundyaev, the most faithful human being, for money is now pouring on him ... unmeasured!
        This is what is called: "Is it rewarded according to his faith?"
        1. UI-Spb
          UI-Spb 23 October 2012 17: 37
          +1
          I do not see the connection between the level of development of the soul, in my statement, and the pouring money for Cyril.
          1. GG2012
            GG2012 23 October 2012 19: 46
            -2
            Quote: UI-Spb
            I do not see the connection between the level of development of the soul, in my statement, and the pouring money for Cyril.

            I see here. I don’t see here. Chamomile! Pancake!!!
            1. UI-Spb
              UI-Spb 24 October 2012 20: 44
              0
              Your questions and answers do not fit in with my statements. Before commenting, delve into the meaning of what is written. In the further discussion I do not see the point. All the best.
  3. hohryakov066
    hohryakov066 23 October 2012 10: 18
    +6
    Faith has always been a support for the Russian people. It is unfortunate that at present many of the actions of the clergy are so unseemly and vile in nature that they discredit the whole church. And to unite the nation, faith is absolutely necessary.
  4. Dimka off
    Dimka off 23 October 2012 10: 23
    +8
    I believe that Orthodox Russia will be resurrected. And we will be strong and prosperous as in the old days.
    1. vadimN
      vadimN 23 October 2012 13: 30
      0
      I hope you mean Orthodoxy not in the Christian, but in the true, Slavic meaning of this word ...
      1. Dimka off
        Dimka off 23 October 2012 14: 14
        +2
        no, not in the pagan sense. I am about Orthodox Christianity.
        1. vadimN
          vadimN 23 October 2012 14: 57
          0
          Quote: Dimka off
          not in the pagan sense. I am about Orthodox Christianity.


          Then take the trouble to study the primary sources and finally find out that the term "Orthodoxy" is pagan, borrowed by Christians during the colonization of Russia. In general, the combination of "Orthodoxy" and "Christianity" looks wild, from the point of view of the scientific and philological explanation of these terms ... Either one or the other ... Mixing and substitution of concepts is a traditional technique to divide and rule ...
  5. does it
    does it 23 October 2012 11: 08
    +2
    when one of his assistants informed Sergius of the German attack. ; but, how did the assistant find out the news!
    1. Dobrokhod Sergey
      Dobrokhod Sergey 23 October 2012 11: 10
      -4
      Quote: kvirit
      , assistant how did you find this news!

      and God was blowing him in the ears, and most likely from Molotov’s speech.
    2. GG2012
      GG2012 23 October 2012 14: 44
      0
      Quote: kvirit
      when one of his assistants informed Sergius of the German attack. ; but, how did the assistant find out the news!

      Pancake! Well, at least someone noticed this absurdity!
      Does the assistant have a connection with Hitler? Or from the Brest Fortress he called back ??? !!!
      "Stories" for grandmothers!
  6. Dobrokhod Sergey
    Dobrokhod Sergey 23 October 2012 11: 08
    +3
    Well, why so misinterpret everything! Does the church now have this or that personal initiative?
    Firstly, Molotov spoke from the leadership of the State to all citizens of the USSR and to communists and non-partisans, believers and atheists, without making any distinctions and thereby showing that this is a popular war. Secondly, the church is not treated withёstras, and withеstres. And thirdly, when the patriarch conducted the liturgy, the Communists and Komsomol members already fought with the Nazis for several hours.
    1. vorobey
      vorobey 23 October 2012 11: 15
      +8
      Quote: Dobrokhod Sergey
      Communists and Komsomol members have already fought with the Nazis for several hours

      And how many communists and Komsomol members did not tell me the protective crosses and icons in their pockets, do you have any information?
      1. Allegedly
        Allegedly 23 October 2012 12: 09
        +2
        At 25%, ask any psychologist. If not wired, then houses hidden where necessary ...
      2. Dobrokhod Sergey
        Dobrokhod Sergey 23 October 2012 12: 17
        +1
        Quote: vorobey
        And how many communists and Komsomol members did not tell me the protective crosses and icons in their pockets, do you have any information?

        Well, apparently, you have it.
        Tell me, ROCOR has called for cooperation with Hitler since the 30s, Gundyaev said that the Second World War is the punishment of the Russian people and that he chose Hitler for his punishment. So what kind of god is this! And if this is a punishment, then all Orthodox were obliged to steadfastly accept this punishment, and not to resist it, and even beat those who carry out this punishment.
        1. vorobey
          vorobey 23 October 2012 12: 47
          +2
          Quote: Dobrokhod Sergey
          ROCOR has called for cooperation with Hitler since the 30s


          you distort? can you reference?
          Quote: Dobrokhod Sergey
          So what kind of god is this! And if this is a punishment, then all Orthodox were obliged to steadfastly accept this punishment, and not to resist it, and even beat those who carry out this punishment.

          write nonsense.
          1. Dobrokhod Sergey
            Dobrokhod Sergey 23 October 2012 14: 31
            -2
            Quote: vorobey
            you distort? can you reference?


            It's enough? you distort?
            http://www.omolenko.com/otstuplenie/roca-and-hitler.htm#ref1
        2. baltika-18
          baltika-18 23 October 2012 12: 50
          +3
          Quote: Dobrokhod Sergey
          Gundyaev said that the Second World War is the punishment of the Russian people and that he chose Hitler for his punishment. So what kind of god is this! And if this is a punishment, then all Orthodox were obliged to steadfastly accept

          What did Gundyaev really say so?
          1. Dobrokhod Sergey
            Dobrokhod Sergey 23 October 2012 13: 32
            +3
            Quote: baltika-18
            What did Gundyaev really say so?

            Some are perplexed: “Why was the last war so terrible and bloody? Why did so many people die? Where does the incomparable suffering of people come from? ” But if we look at this military catastrophe with the gaze that our pious ancestors looked at the past and present, can we really refrain from completely clear evidence that this was a punishment for sin, for the terrible sin of the apostasy of the whole nation, for trampling the shrines, for blasphemy and mockery of the Church, of shrines, of faith. How could such a terrible phenomenon in the life of a people, such as the destruction of the believing part of society, the destruction of the Church, the doom of people to suffering, martyrdom and confession, be passed with ease, without trial? But if instead of a terrible punishment there followed material prosperity and the victory of ideology, then involuntarily every sane believer would ask: “And where is the judgment of God, is it really only in eternity? Does He not extend His hand over history? ”
            Full text: http://www.patriarchia.ru/db/text/665838.html
        3. Ross
          Ross 23 October 2012 15: 57
          +2
          Dobrokhod Sergey,
          Gundyaev said that the Second World War is the punishment of the Russian people


          Who is Gundyaev really?

          Excerpt from the book of Vladimir Danilov "Aryan Empire, death and rebirth", Department of Theoretical Problems at the Academy of Sciences of the Russian Federation, 2000
          page 46-47


          "... They are well aware of the connections and words of M. Martin, the former assistant to the behind-the-scenes strategist Cardinal Agostino Bea and the" reformer pope "John XXIII, who belonged to the Masonic Rosicrucian order, about his associates:
          "Among the cardinals and the hierarchy are Satanists, homosexuals, anti-papists, and those who help advance towards world government."
          It was this Agotino Bea, through the mediation of the Order of Malta and a number of influential Western circles, who established close relations with Mr. von Pinkerneil, Master of the United Masonic Lodges of Germany.
          It was to him constantly traveled Soviet Orthodox Metropolitan Nikodim (Rotov) and constantly took with him on trips the young hieromonk hegumen, and as a result, the most influential Archimandrite Kirill (Gundyaev). "
          1. vadimN
            vadimN 24 October 2012 13: 17
            +1
            Quote: Ross
            It was to him that the Soviet Orthodox Metropolitan Nikodim (Rotov) constantly traveled and constantly took with him on trips the young hieromonk hegumen, and as a result, the most influential Archimandrite Kirill (Gundyaev). "


            So it seems reality that the actions of the current elite of the Russian Orthodox Church do not work for the benefit of Orthodoxy and Russia ...
      3. Dimych
        Dimych 23 October 2012 16: 47
        +1
        Quote: vorobey
        And how many communists and Komsomol members did not tell me the protective crosses and icons in their pockets, do you have any information?

        And how many believers during the years of the war refused faith in God?
  7. Download Do Re Mi
    Download Do Re Mi 23 October 2012 12: 00
    +3
    Our strength is in our faith! As long as we keep the faith of our ancestors and follow this faith, Russia will be invincible, as we retreat, there will be no Russia!
    1. Allegedly
      Allegedly 23 October 2012 12: 20
      -1
      Download Do Re Mi,

      If Prince Vladimir (Rurikovich) kept the faith of his ancestors and followed it, then now you should pray to Perun or some other pagan misfortune. And then ... certainly you would not have a country from Pskov to Vladivostok smile
      1. Dobrokhod Sergey
        Dobrokhod Sergey 23 October 2012 12: 31
        -4
        Quote: JACOB
        And then ... certainly you would not have a country from Pskov to Vladivostok


        Is the Jewish religion the religion of the aggressor?
        1. Allegedly
          Allegedly 23 October 2012 13: 01
          +1
          Dobrokhod Sergey,

          And who told you that I have a "Jewish" religion?
          Hover over my checkbox and read ...

          Question to the moderators, why forum users from Israel do not show the flag of their country, do they have reason to be ashamed of him? Flag as a flag, then what is the problem?
          1. Fox 070
            Fox 070 23 October 2012 15: 28
            -2
            Quote: JACOB
            Hover over my checkbox and read ...

            "... so they don't hit on the passport, but on ... the face."

            A quote from a "bearded" Soviet anecdote. hi
            1. Allegedly
              Allegedly 23 October 2012 16: 32
              0
              How bravely it is to insult decent people while sitting it’s not known where at the computer ... How low it is, although the lower your dignity, the calmer ... And I'm not sure if you know what it is ...
          2. Dobrokhod Sergey
            Dobrokhod Sergey 23 October 2012 16: 42
            0
            Quote: JACOB
            If Prince Vladimir (Rurikovich) kept the faith of his ancestors and followed it, then now you should pray to Perun or some other pagan misfortune. And then ... certainly you would not have a country from Pskov to Vladivostok

            What does this have to do with it?


            Quote: JACOB
            And who told you that I have a "Jewish" religion?

            And where did you get the idea that I'm hinting at someone's religion?
            Following your logic, we can conclude that if the Slavs remained pagans, they would now live within the Kiev or Novgorod regions and only Christianity would allow them to conquer the lands that are now called Russia. That is, Christianity pushes or blesses aggression.
            But you forgot the campaigns of princes Oleg, Svyatoslav, Igor.
            1. Allegedly
              Allegedly 23 October 2012 17: 24
              -2
              No hiking Dear Dobrokhod Sergeyand the raids ....
              1. Dobrokhod Sergey
                Dobrokhod Sergey 23 October 2012 22: 18
                -2
                Quote: JACOB
                Not hiking Dear Sergei Dobrohod, but the raids ....

                You can raid a nearby store or garden. On a map, estimate where Kiev is and where Constantinople is Constantinople.
      2. Aventurinka
        Aventurinka 23 October 2012 12: 43
        +3
        Why did you decide that Download Do Re Mi meant what you understood? For 1000 years of Orthodox Christianity in Russia, more than enough of our ancestors were brought up in it.
        Here is one of the fundamental points that bothers me in monotheism - aggressiveness towards everyone else who does not think like you ....
        Enough of aggression on religious grounds, they ate. Why can someone forbid another to believe in something if it is something within the framework of the AK and the Criminal Code?
        1. Allegedly
          Allegedly 23 October 2012 15: 11
          0
          Read carefully what I wrote, about three times, slowly ...
          It will dispel your phobias ...
      3. Fox 070
        Fox 070 23 October 2012 15: 25
        -3
        Quote: JACOB
        If Prince Vladimir (Rurikovich) kept the faith of his ancestors and followed it, then now you should pray to Perun or some other pagan misfortune.

        So you are praying to the God whom "prince" Vladimir brought to our land, what are you indignant with? And before his "deeds" the territory of Russia was much larger!
        1. Allegedly
          Allegedly 23 October 2012 15: 42
          0
          laughing The Ukrainians have one wonderful proverb - "the fool gets richer with a dumka" laughing

          By the way Dear , Aventurinka is not your girlfriend? Or a second account? You have a wonderful title, but the same people add value to you. Or bots. Maybe Perun helps? laughing

          PS mind you, in spite of your insignificant creativity, I am addressing you respectfully, do the same. On "YOU" it is more hygienic ...

          1. Allegedly
            Allegedly 23 October 2012 15: 52
            -1
            I see two possessed, on the forum all the minus ...
            Members of the forum remember their nicknames <Aventurinka> and ... Secret Adepts of Perun ... laughing
            1. Fox 070
              Fox 070 23 October 2012 18: 04
              -1
              Allegedly,
              Follow the link, I think you will not be out of place. hi

              http://dibelizm.narod.ru/nax.htm
        2. Allegedly
          Allegedly 23 October 2012 17: 30
          +3
          ... oh, these clowns ...
  8. bpvo58
    bpvo58 23 October 2012 12: 07
    0
    Believers, what do you believe in? I believe in Science, and I know what it is. But no one gave me the exact definition of God. For 70 years, the Soviet government has given education to all, but to no avail.
    All faith in God rests only on the fear of death; a person does not want to accept that he is mortal. Faith is a defensive reaction of Reason; I will also begin to believe in something by the age of 70. I like Flying Macaroni Monster))
  9. Karlsonn
    Karlsonn 23 October 2012 12: 27
    +4
    The rector of the Holy Assumption Church in the Ivanovo district of the Pinsk region, Vasily Danilovich Kopychko was a partisan liaison officer and political informant, at the services he introduced the parishioners to the Sovinformburo reports and the situation on the fronts. His house was a partisan safe house. Father Vasily also visited the detachment, for which he organized the collection of food and weapons. At the beginning of 1943, the Germans revealed the priest’s connection with the partisans and immediately burned down the church and his house. Vasily himself and his family managed to escape and move to the detachment, which subsequently joined with the army. Vasily Kopychko was awarded the Order of the Patriotic War II degree, medals "Partisan of the Patriotic War" I degree, "For Victory over Germany" and "For Valiant Labor in the Great Patriotic War".

    Archpriest Alexander Fedorovich Romanushko, rector of the church in the village of Malo-Plotnitskoye, Logishinsky district, Pinsk region, served in the Pinsk partisan formation from the summer of 1942 to the summer of 1944 of the year. Repeatedly participated in military and intelligence operations. He was awarded the medal "Partisan of the Patriotic War" I degree. By the way, it was he who, in 1943 year, being under armed guerrilla guards, at the funeral of the murdered policeman addressed the audience with the following words:
    Brothers and sisters, I understand the great sorrow of the mother and father of the murdered. But he did not deserve our prayers “with the saints repose” with his life in the grave. He is a traitor to the Motherland and a killer of innocent children and the elderly. Instead of eternal memory, let’s say: “Anathema”.
    The father advised the friends of the deceased to repent and stand up against fascism in order to atone for his grave sins. After a brief but juicy sermon, a group of policemen left the partisans right from the funeral.

    By the way, his two sons bravely fought with the Germans, first in partisans, and then in the Red Army, returned home with orders.

    Archpriest Alexander Romanushko with fellow guerrillas.

    The rector of the church in the name of the Protection of the Virgin in the village of Hvarosno, Logishinsky district, Pinsk region, John Loiko, publicly blessed his three sons, Vladimir, George and Alexander, to join the partisans. In February 1943 of the year, Khvoros was surrounded by punitive. The partisan command decided to leave without a fight and, together with the civilian population, leave the encirclement. Father John was left with the remaining, mostly sick, crippled, elderly. On February 15, the Germans burned him along with three hundred parishioners right in the temple.

    The priest of the village of Blyachino, Kletsk district of the Baranavichy region, Nikolai Aleksandrovich Khiltov, constantly helped scouts of the Vasily Ivanovich Chapaev brigade operating in the same region. At the church house, he created a "rest house", where the wounded and sick partisans regained their health. 6 April 1944 year for helping partisans, he was arrested along with his brother George Alexandrovich, also a priest. They were tortured to death in the Koldychevo concentration camp, and together with their wives.

    The rector of the temple of the village of Kobylniki, Myadel district, Vileika region, Peter Batsyan, had the courage to help Jews. He was arrested by the SD. In a Minsk prison, the liberators of the USSR from Bolshevism harnessed it to a plow and plowed a prison garden on it, and then poisoned dogs to death.

    Partisan intelligence officer, rector of the Vidon church of the Utorgosh region Methodius Belov says goodbye to his daughter Rufina, a partisan intelligence officer. In 1943, while performing an intelligence mission at Dno station, Father Methodius was captured by the Germans and shot after torture.
    1. Karlsonn
      Karlsonn 23 October 2012 12: 29
      +4
      There is no complete information, but, apparently, in the framework of supporting Orthodoxy in the conquered lands, the Germans, in particular, shot and killed in other ways 55% of the priests of the Polesie diocese alone.
  10. yacht
    yacht 23 October 2012 12: 30
    +4
    Our people are now being driven into the insolently hard drive into the head that only thanks to the ROC and criminals did the Soviet Union win the Second World War. Dozens of contemporary films about WWII have been shot. where priests together with criminals work wonders of heroism ... and you thought in a country where priests and thieves rule, how could it be otherwise?
    1. baltika-18
      baltika-18 23 October 2012 12: 53
      +9
      Quote: yacht
      Our people are now being driven into the insolently hard drive into the head that only thanks to the ROC and criminals did the Soviet Union win the Second World War. Dozens of contemporary films about WWII have been shot. where priests together with criminals work wonders of heroism ... and you thought in a country where priests and thieves rule, how could it be otherwise?

      I will fully support Yakhont. I have seen enough of these films. Such rot from the screens.
      1. vorobey
        vorobey 23 October 2012 13: 16
        +1
        You guys watch interesting films, but you watch only what you are interested in.
        1. yacht
          yacht 23 October 2012 13: 28
          +1
          Quote: vorobey
          You guys watch interesting films, but you watch only what you are interested in.


          At the sight of crap it’s not at all necessary to taste it, normal people just see that crap and pass by.
        2. baltika-18
          baltika-18 23 October 2012 13: 30
          +1
          Quote: vorobey
          You guys watch interesting films, but you watch only what you are interested in.

          To beat the enemy, you need to know his weapon.
      2. Fox 070
        Fox 070 23 October 2012 15: 31
        +2
        Quote: baltika-18
        . Such rot from the screens.

        Speaking of rot ... On Friday, NTV AGAIN releases a film about the negative role of Stalin during collectivization. The abomination is complete. negative
      3. Dobrokhod Sergey
        Dobrokhod Sergey 23 October 2012 16: 47
        +2
        Quote: baltika-18
        I will fully support Yakhont. I have seen enough of these films. Such rot from the screens.

        Join.

        On Friday, Pivovarov Jr. will issue another "masterpiece".
      4. Allegedly
        Allegedly 23 October 2012 16: 47
        0
        the most interesting is not this, the most interesting is who is financing them, who is lobbying (this is very important). Everyone needs to know specific surnames ...
        1. Allegedly
          Allegedly 23 October 2012 17: 03
          0
          Yes, which animal is constantly minus? Who is against the fact that everyone would know the names of the geeks? What did I write wrong?

          PS Dear moderators, please comment who is here forever pluses each other, and also in an organized way minuses ...

          Sincerely ...
          1. GG2012
            GG2012 23 October 2012 18: 23
            +1
            Quote: JACOB
            Yes, which animal is constantly minus?
    2. bpvo58
      bpvo58 23 October 2012 13: 03
      +5
      Priests need thieves in power to maintain this very power. That is, now the church is one of the state institutions
      1. yacht
        yacht 23 October 2012 13: 22
        +2
        Quote: bpvo58
        Priests need thieves in power to maintain this very power. That is, now the church is one of the state institutions


        Quite right, the way it is, and the bet is that Orthodoxy, among other religions, play a dominant role in this design, and it (Orthodoxy), that’s bad luck, loses the championship to Islam in all respects. Instead of a communist ideology, they needed to cover their sins, they decided to bet on religion ...
        1. bpvo58
          bpvo58 23 October 2012 13: 36
          +3
          It loses it for now, because the potential flock is still quite educated in comparison with the flock of Muslims. But soon the reform of education will bear fruit, and the herds of sheep will run to beat their foreheads and cross themselves with signs of the cross.
      2. vorobey
        vorobey 23 October 2012 13: 34
        +1
        Quote: bpvo58
        Priests need thieves in power to maintain this very power. That is, now the church is one of the state institutions


        Under socialism, there were priests, but it was not they who pissed off the country, and the communists quickly corresponded to democrats and liberrals and became thieves. The church has nothing to do with it. Look deeper into the soul. Morality is lost.
        1. Karlsonn
          Karlsonn 23 October 2012 13: 52
          +2
          Quote: vorobey
          the communists quickly in the Democrats and the Liberals corresponded and became thieves.

          they are not communists, but opportunists!

          Quote: vorobey
          The church has nothing to do with it. Look deeper into the soul. Morality is lost.

          Allow me to subscribe to this thesis.
        2. yacht
          yacht 23 October 2012 13: 57
          +4
          Quote: vorobey
          Under socialism, there were priests, but it was not they who pissed off the country, and the communists quickly corresponded to democrats and liberrals and became thieves. The church has nothing to do with it. Look deeper into the soul. Morality is lost.


          Here I agree with you, but with one amendment, those few people who really were communists could not stop a bunch of opportunists, supposedly communists, namely those who wore a cross or a namaz with a party card, from seizing power and the collapse of the country. Yes it was. And the people unfortunately believed these demagogues.
          1. vorobey
            vorobey 23 October 2012 14: 07
            +2
            Quote: yacht
            those few people who were really communists could not stop the pack of opportunists, supposedly communists, namely those who wore a cross or a prayer together with a party membership card


            At that time, did they fight in line for sausage, or philosophize about the ways for the further development of socialism? Nemtsovs, Kasianovs, Gaidars, Chernomyrdins. Berezovsky, Chubais - is it the Orthodox who seized power?
            Do not write nonsense.
            1. yacht
              yacht 23 October 2012 14: 29
              +2
              Quote: vorobey
              At that time, did they fight in line for sausage, or philosophize about the ways for the further development of socialism? Nemtsovs, Kasianovs, Gaidars, Chernomyrdins. Berezovsky, Chubais - is it the Orthodox who seized power?
              Do not write nonsense.


              And this is not a big difference between the synagogue and the church, the same Jew is worshiped and believed in the same Jewish tales, shades of yes, different, but as they say, one raspberry.
  11. Karlsonn
    Karlsonn 23 October 2012 12: 49
    +6
    MUFTIY RSFSR GABDRAKHMAN RASULEV
    He declared jihad against fascism.
    1. Aventurinka
      Aventurinka 23 October 2012 13: 12
      +3
      But I didn’t know that. Thanks for the information.
      1. Karlsonn
        Karlsonn 23 October 2012 13: 47
        +3
        You're welcome hi .
        Quote from Rasulev’s appeal to the Muslims of the USSR:
        “... There is not a single believer whose son, brother or father would not fight the Germans today, defending our common homeland with arms. Just as there is not, probably, not one who would not have helped the cause of victory with their labor in the factories in the rear. For we Muslims remember well the words of the Prophet Muhammad: “Love for the Motherland is part of your faith“ ... ”
        In addition, he still raised money for a tank column.
    2. Dobrokhod Sergey
      Dobrokhod Sergey 23 October 2012 16: 50
      +1
      Quote: Karlsonn
      MUFTIY RSFSR GABDRAKHMAN RASULEV
      He declared jihad against fascism.


      Crimean Tatars and Vainakhs immediately "supported" him. For which they subsequently received gratitude from the Soviet government.
      1. Karlsonn
        Karlsonn 23 October 2012 19: 55
        +2
        Well, in deed, how does this relate to tens of thousands of Muslims who fought against fascism in the ranks of the Soviet Army?
        Quote: Dobrokhod Sergey
        Crimean Tatars and Vainakhs immediately "supported" him

        This betrayal of the essence does not change.
        1. Dobrokhod Sergey
          Dobrokhod Sergey 23 October 2012 22: 25
          -1
          So they now urinate their imams from time to time.
          1. Karlsonn
            Karlsonn 24 October 2012 12: 43
            0
            So we do not all praise God, and churches desecrate and kill priests.
  12. Igarr
    Igarr 23 October 2012 14: 16
    +5
    Was there persecution of the church? There were.
    Tore down the temples? Took down.
    ..
    But, at the same time, the Russian Orthodox Church continued to conduct its work, albeit truncated.
    And maybe - truncated - in their own opinion, after the 1953 year.
    Archbishop Luka (Voyno-Yasenetsky) - a talented surgeon, developer of the method of regional anesthesia - became a monk during his work in Tashkent. From memory, it seems like 1927 year, in the very revelry - anti-church.
    I am sure that he was not the only one.
    At the same time, we know from the "12 chairs" that living churchmen appeared.
    The church itself fell apart, with very substantial help from the state.
    ..
    Not so simple.
    And the fact that she consolidated with the people during the war - well, is she a CHURCH, in general?
    Or how?
  13. davoks
    davoks 23 October 2012 14: 28
    +1
    The ROC has already reached the Second World War?
    1. Dobrokhod Sergey
      Dobrokhod Sergey 23 October 2012 22: 27
      -1
      Quote: davoks
      The ROC has already reached the Second World War?

      Here they are noted.
  14. strannik595
    strannik595 23 October 2012 14: 41
    +2
    The greatest people of Russia who glorified their Motherland (and this without pathos) were Orthodox Christians, starting from the Holy Princess Olga, Alexander Nevsky, Dmitry Donskoy whom St. Sergius of Radonezh blessed for the battle with the invaders ....... and further Lomonosov, Ushakov, Suvorov and many others ....... and were not ashamed to profess their faith ........ I read somewhere that even Stalin and someone else sang at night under degrees something from spiritual chants in the empty Assumption Cathedral of the Kremlin (apparently the seminary youth left something in their souls) ............. and even for the especially militant, there is such an expression "death of sinners fierce", atheists die hard, for every word against God and His Church will have to answer after the soul leaves the body, remember this and do not mock at the shrines ............... and the war was indeed God's punishment for the Russian people, so it is, but what blessing was it for you? The turning point in the war came after a turning point in the attitude of the authorities towards the Church, when Stalin listened to Elijah, Metropolitan of the mountains of Lebanon, to whom the Mother of God appeared and said what should be done to save Russia ......
    1. GG2012
      GG2012 23 October 2012 15: 12
      +2
      Quote: strannik595
      The turning point in the war came after a turning point in the attitude of the authorities towards the Church, when Stalin listened to Elijah, Metropolitan of the mountains of Lebanon, to whom the Mother of God appeared and said what should be done to save Russia ......

      You are not tired of attributing priests victory in the Second World War ???
      And then just like in the Soviet couplets:
      "Winter has passed. Summer has arrived!
      Thanks to the party for that! "

      Respected strannik595 (1) Today, 14:41 Do not lose the adequacy!
      1. strannik595
        strannik595 23 October 2012 15: 49
        +3
        no, not tired, not the priests won the war, but ..... a feat and priests and simple hoarding heroes whom the Lord God helped to defeat evil spirits, somehow, I’ll try to understand my adequacy without the help of others, thanks for your vigilance
        1. vorobey
          vorobey 23 October 2012 16: 25
          +2
          Wanderer plus.
          1. Allegedly
            Allegedly 23 October 2012 17: 51
            +1
            I join +
        2. GG2012
          GG2012 23 October 2012 16: 39
          +1
          You distort reality and very incorrectly manipulate information.
          Here you write
          Quote: strannik595
          The turning point in the war came after a turning point in the attitude of the authorities towards the Church

          But here
          Quote: strannik595
          about the feat of priests and priests and simple hoarding heroes

          And in the end, in general
          Quote: strannik595
          Lord God helped conquer evil

          Is that Jewish Christ with the apostles went on the attack ??? !!!
          Now all the Soviet people (from your words) owe to the Jews and the Russian Orthodox Church victory in the Second World War!
          For your part, this is very not decent. protrusion priesthood and Judaism, and at the same time derogation and derogation (leveling) the merits of the simple Soviet people and the leadership of the Soviet Union and the Army.
          Have a conscience !!! Do not write like x %%%%%%
    2. baltika-18
      baltika-18 23 October 2012 16: 27
      +2
      Quote: strannik595
      The turning point in the war came after a turning point in the attitude of the authorities towards the Church, when Stalin listened to Elijah, Metropolitan of the mountains of Lebanon, to whom the Mother of God appeared and said what should be done to save Russia ......

      That's it, I'm leaving the site. Here is the clinic.
      1. vorobey
        vorobey 23 October 2012 17: 49
        +1
        Quote: baltika-18
        Everything, I'm leaving the site. Here the clinic


        For the bazaar?
    3. Dobrokhod Sergey
      Dobrokhod Sergey 23 October 2012 16: 57
      0
      Quote: strannik595
      The turning point in the war came after a turning point in the attitude of the authorities towards the Church, when Stalin listened to Elijah, Metropolitan of the mountains of Lebanon, to whom the Mother of God appeared and said what should be done to save Russia ......


      It is necessary to sleep at night, and not to beat the forehead on the floor.
      They taught the Army in figs, plants were transferred to the East, schoolchildren worked on machines for their fathers, people at the front died defending or conquering every inch of the earth. What was this mother waiting for? Or choose, as allies, to whom and when to help?
      Orthodox have completely gone crazy.
      1. bpvo58
        bpvo58 23 October 2012 17: 16
        +3
        It was not necessary to spend resources on industrialization, but more churches to build. The Germans then did not even dare to attack Holy Russia, they understood that thunder from heaven would destroy them all!
        A wonderful article, I learned from it that while Stalin put two weeks in fear of his pants, the church raised the country to war
  15. Captain
    Captain 23 October 2012 16: 03
    +1
    Oh, it started again. On the site, it’s just right to prohibit the discussion of religion, and that is not news, everything slides into a hollywood.
  16. AK-74-1
    AK-74-1 23 October 2012 16: 04
    +2
    Wonderful article. I am very glad that such articles appear. The church should play an important role in the life of traditional Russian society. Thanks to the author and a huge PLUS.
  17. Isk1984
    Isk1984 23 October 2012 17: 36
    +1
    Well, if you follow the logic of the Wanderer, then the god from the very baptism of Russia did not like the freedom-loving Rusics so many bloody wars were fought on the territory of our Motherland and each time the question was posed about the very existence of the state, it turns out according to the Wanderer’s logic that the Nazis are direct angels sent to fight the communist eryus, Yes, for such thoughts, my great-grandfather the order bearer would have screwed a sapper blade between his eyes and would have been right ...

    And so that communist rallies do not say ideology, but faith, I will say so, over the past 20 years, it has only divided societies into Muslim Christians, and now most atheists grab them now as they look at the insane .... is that normal?
    1. vorobey
      vorobey 23 October 2012 17: 52
      +1
      Ivan you are complete. You see the letters, but you cannot understand the meaning like some here. By the way, the snack says that this is becoming massively among young people. Sorry if it turned out rude.
      1. Isk1984
        Isk1984 23 October 2012 18: 17
        0
        That the arguments ended with you and insults, I see no less meaning than you, life has taught me, you just roll back to the common insanity of the Middle Ages, where does such hatred towards people who think differently, well, then see the references that he is prove to me unreasonable ....
        And the most interesting thing about the adoption of Christianity is a great historical accident, if you remember that Prince Vladimir chose for a long time between Islam and Christianity .... great though one person determined everything for 1000 years ahead .... really what does Vera have to do with it ....
  18. Allegedly
    Allegedly 23 October 2012 17: 39
    -1
    Yes it should. But above all, the church as such should be an example. An example in piety, in righteousness and holiness. The priest as such should be an example to others, should live hungry, live in prayer and every second of his time look for those who can be helped - orphans, widows, the disabled ... Priests on Mercedes, they are so cute ...
    1. Joker
      Joker 23 October 2012 17: 55
      +2
      That’s what we’re talking about and arguing about. good if they had not departed from the covenants themselves, then there would be no disputes.
  19. Isk1984
    Isk1984 23 October 2012 17: 42
    -1
    Well, there is still logic or not ..... if there is a god, how could he allow, for example, that the Nazis throw off living children into wells or when babies are thrown to the fire, for which they did not intercede, or the Germans then was God stronger?
    I don’t mock me, they just infuriate me with tirades about punishing the USSR for apostasy .....
    1. Allegedly
      Allegedly 23 October 2012 18: 00
      -1
      All believers worshiping the Living God will be resurrected, especially those who are innocent. Go to any funeral, where the priest mumbles about the resurrection of the righteous and unrighteous, and then he proclaims the thesis about the afterlife in heaven in heaven ... He doesn’t understand everything ... What a shame ...
  20. Denzel13
    Denzel13 23 October 2012 17: 51
    +4
    I'm sorry, but time was not allowed to read all the comments, read the article. The opinion has remained the same, there are and were in the ROC clergymen whom I perceive as people who have dedicated themselves to the faith and carry it to people, and there are "clergymen" who, unfortunately, are very common.
    1. vorobey
      vorobey 23 October 2012 18: 10
      +3
      Hi Sanya. a plus. There are priests and there are priests.
      1. Joker
        Joker 23 October 2012 18: 18
        +2
        There are priests and there are priests.

        Zadornov? laughing there are sons of God, and there are slaves wink
    2. GG2012
      GG2012 23 October 2012 18: 11
      +2
      Quote: Denzel13
      Denzel13 (1) Today, 17:51 pm new

      Greetings to the Bolgradsky Airborne Forces !!!
      1. Denzel13
        Denzel13 24 October 2012 13: 53
        +1
        Thank! Mutually!
  21. iCuD
    iCuD 23 October 2012 21: 59
    +1
    All the same, any religion is an ideology with its own rituals. Which, oddly enough, slows down progress. To humanity, instead of explaining any phenomenon, it is always easier to believe in supernatural powers. So, atheism on this side is still more practical.
    Although it is better to believe in something in dark times ... (although again a controversial statement)
    1. Uncle Serozha
      Uncle Serozha 24 October 2012 00: 03
      +1
      Quote: iCuD
      All the same, any religion is an ideology with its own rituals.

      I do not agree with you. Any religion is:

      1. The search for the spiritual essence and understanding of the picture of the world (it does not matter whether it is called God, Tao, the Primordial, the One). But this path is not easy and therefore intended only for adherents.

      2. For the rest - really ideology and rituals that can gradually lead to path 1 (most often they do not). But even if a person does not embark on the spiritual path, ideology still affects him and forces him to behave decently in society ("Thou shalt not kill" and "Thou shalt not steal" are the first two commandments of Moses, they are also the first 2 Buddhist commandments).

      Path 1 - exclusively meditation techniques (in early Christianity they were called "prayer of silence", or "quiet prayer"). These techniques are most developed in Buddhism. These techniques are not a religion (in a ritual sense), but a training technique. It was for the sake of meditation (although it was never called) that monasteries were created in early Christianity (they stole from Buddhists).
      The Sufis have one specific technique, Christians have another, and Hare Krishnas have a third. But they all have common features - the components of which they are composed.

      1. Reading Prayers (mantras, conspiracies - it doesn't matter). The goal is to turn off the "chatter" - an internal dialogue that prevents a person from seeing and repeating all the same mistakes and delusions again. Until you stop talking to yourself, the rest will be difficult.)

      2. Meditation (silent prayer, contemplation, dissolution in existence) - introducing oneself into a state of silence and contemplation to achieve a state grace (among Hindus - nirvanaBuddhists - samati, among Sufis - fanamong the Jews - kawana)

      3. Singing and dancing (only singing among Christians, only dancing among Sufis, and singing and dancing in some branches of Judaism (Hasidim)). The goal is the same as in paragraph 2. Less deep states are achieved, but faster and requires less self-discipline.

      4. Asceticism (fasting, penance, tapasya, etc.) - the intentional creation of inconvenience and deprivation, because it is in a state of discomfort that the transformation of consciousness is initiated (when everything is fine - it is not necessary smile ) Either do not sleep (all-night vigil), or do not eat (fasting, tapasya), or do not change postures and suffer pain from sore limbs for 10-20 hours (some branches of Hinduism and Buddhism), or not breathe (yoga and some branches of Buddhism )

      In some faiths, paragraphs 1, 2, and 3 may be combined during church service.

      The most important point is meditation. Without it, cultivation is extremely slow. The problem is that over time there is a secularization of any church tradition. The meditation component disappears and an empty ritual skin remains. Well, and even the commandments - so as not to cut each other.
      Christianity has been well emasculated, but there is still something left in the monastic culture. Islam looks more vigorously than Christianity.

      In pagan traditions, all this was also developed, but then forgotten. It makes no sense to talk about the revival of Slavic beliefs - not because Perun and Yarilo are worse than Christ and Krishna. But because the chain of student continuity is interrupted and specific training methods have been lost.
      1. Uncle Serozha
        Uncle Serozha 24 October 2012 00: 34
        +2
        ATTENTION! I didn’t want to offend anyone with my post. I respect Christians, Muslims and representatives of other faiths,

        РПЦ I respect. The Radar of Illumination of the Purpose (aka 5N62, aka K1V cockpit) is the most important part of the RTS of the S-200 air defense channel. Without it, the head does not see the goal. wink But priests on equipment do nefig.

        Peace for everyone!
  22. Stary oper
    Stary oper 23 October 2012 23: 47
    +1
    Everyone has the right to believe in what he believes. That is what she believes. The main thing is that it does not harm others.
  23. wax
    wax 24 October 2012 00: 07
    +8
    It seems to me fair that Caesar is Caesar's, and God is God's. By combining Orthodoxy with Caesar (the state), we are doing him a disservice. We are also doing a disservice to the state. Because There are many Muslims in Russia, then in order to preserve the pacifying prosperity, one must treat Islam in the same way. Here lies the danger for Russia - religious confrontation. Actually, this was the situation under Pobedonostsev. How it all ended is well known. Russia is a secular state, religion is separated from the state. It is right. But now there is a combination (some write "clericalization") of statehood with Orthodoxy to the detriment of Islam. From my point of view, all religions should be equidistant from the state. It seems to me that a time bomb is being laid under the unity of Russia. but a huge explosive force, which, if a conflict occurs, it will be impossible to neutralize.
    1. Uncle Serozha
      Uncle Serozha 24 October 2012 00: 37
      +3
      Quote: Wax
      Combining Orthodoxy with Caesar (the state), we do him a disservice. We also do a disservice to the state.

      good Here it is - in gold letters and in the red corner!
      1. Magadan
        Magadan 24 October 2012 02: 02
        +4
        I agree to all 100%. The state is one thing, the Church is another! But! If my child at school has the right to brainwash with the moronic theory of Darwin, which no normal scientist already believes in, then why can't a child in the same school hear the theory of Creation scientists? Is that fair in your opinion?
  24. Magadan
    Magadan 24 October 2012 02: 00
    0
    Quote: Wax
    in order to maintain pacific prosperity, one must equally apply to Islam

    Yes, never Orthodoxy and does not oppose Islam. Because the fruits of Islam (traditional) are traditions, family, reverence for elders, love for the country, helping the weak, conciliarity, etc. Those. "at the exit" we see a positive result. We do not understand why "it is like this with them, but it is different for us", but it is not our business to go into the depths. Let theologians and people who know the questions decide there.
    I would like to add about bad priests. Christ, even before his crucifixion, sent apostles through cities and villages to heal people and cast out demons. He gave them the power "to step on snakes, scorpions and all kinds of evil spirits. Among these apostles was Judas Iscariot. And he, it turns out, also healed and drove out demons. I understand that - if I go now to some priest who Judas (there are such people, I agree), I will still receive healing and help. This is exactly what is important! It is foolish to avoid the Church and not receive help just because Judas is seen everywhere
  25. d.gksueyjd
    d.gksueyjd 25 October 2012 23: 11
    -2
    The Russian Orthodox Church consists of priests (priests) and priests; I sincerely respect the faith of some and do not incur others. Believe in God in the 21st century --- I do not know how to say so as not to offend the believers. Religion is the opium for the people.
    1. d.gksueyjd
      d.gksueyjd 27 October 2012 18: 23
      0
      Quote: d.gksueyjd
      Religion -opium for the people

      While the priests themselves, Imams and other concessionaires will not live according to the religions which they preach-- they have no place in the souls of people! am
  26. DRY
    DRY 28 October 2012 11: 02
    0
    there’s nothing to add, there’s only a lot of article ++++++++++++++++++++++
  27. Dmitry T.
    Dmitry T. 8 November 2012 01: 42
    0
    Sergius STRAGORODSKY, not Starogorodsky, sorry :)
    There is such a term in psychology - "stereotypical thinking". Here is the phrase "religion is opium for the people", which is usually cited as "accusation" and which carries the exact opposite meaning - just as opportunely it is a model of such stereotyped thinking.