Russian Bayraktar - Erdogan's bluff or forced decision

92

Bayraktar TV2 at the Army-2022 forum. Source: qpmedia.ru

Russia and Turkey - partners?


Russia is ready to start production of Bayraktar in the near future. This opinion was expressed by Tayyip Erdogan at the end of July. The exact words of the President of Turkey:

“Putin told me that he wants to work with Baykar. He suggested setting up a plant in Russia, as was also done recently in the UAE.”

Later, the Kremlin denied this statement, and then Khaluk Bayraktar himself, the chief of the UAV manufacturer Baykar Makina, answered a question about the prospects for Russian production:



“We didn’t deliver or provide anything to them. We will never do that."

However, there is no smoke without fire, and when the first persons of the state voice such provocative statements, something is clearly hidden behind it.


Recep Erdogan. Source: yakutsk.ru

First of all, it is necessary to decide whether Russia needs Bayraktar in the current situation? Especially with the production on its own territory. Combat drones, especially drums, there is a chronic shortage at the front, and therefore yes - Turkish cars can influence the course of events. At the same time, it is important to understand that it is the Russian side that is able to use Bayraktar most effectively.

This machine is designed to fight an enemy equipped with not the most advanced air defense. Best of all, its complete absence. The example of Azerbaijan is a clear confirmation of this - with the weak air defense of Nagorno-Karabakh, it was Bayraktar who became the real kings of the air. But all the inferiority of these slow-moving and quite noticeable drones in the sky manifested itself in a collision with the Russian army. Of course, there are several successful operations on the account of Turkish cars, but in most cases they become consumables.

The triumph of Bayraktar in Ukraine did not happen. But against Ukrainian nationalists, Turkish vehicles would have been much more effective - the enemy’s air defense, although not completely suppressed, is much less perfect.

Here it is worth making a digression and recalling the domestic UAV "Inohodets" from JSC "Kronstadt", in many respects superior to the Turkish counterpart. In particular, the flight radius and combat load are larger. There is one caveat - there are absolutely not enough “Pacers” in the shock troops, and it takes time to saturate the units and train operators. Therefore, the appearance of Bayraktar in the Russian army, of course, can be seen as a positive thing. Unless, of course, we discard all ideological contradictions and look at the situation with a cool head. Turkish Drones necessary at least for the first time, until Kronstadt reaches its planned capacity.

Russia and Turkey are longtime military-technical partners, and the purchase of drones, as well as the organization of the assembly, do not look like something criminal. Another realpolitik precedent, nothing more. After all, Russia has long and in large quantities supplied arms to two opposing countries at the same time - Azerbaijan and Armenia. On February 21, 2022, right before the special operation, an agreement on alliance in the military sphere was signed with Baku.

And the delivery of the S-400 to the current NATO member also speaks volumes. Practical Turks vitally need new markets for equipment. Not the most impressive performance of Bayraktar in the Ukrainian theater of operations does not add buyers at all. At Army-2022, a captured drone made in Türkiye is exhibited, apparently assembled from several destroyed vehicles. Do we need more anti-advertising?

All of the above can become a reality only in one case - if the Kremlin decides to purchase or, moreover, organize the production of Bayraktar. This, as we see, has not happened yet, and the reason is one more player from this stories - Islamic Republic of Iran.

Whose drone is better?


The fact is that the Russian market is a very tasty morsel for any manufacturer. Be it civilian or military equipment. Therefore, for Baykar Makina, the supply of drones to Moscow looks like a more than lucrative contract. Erdogan, whose son-in-law runs a drone company, was simply bluffing to derail Russia's talks with Iran. The public discrediting of the Kremlin, as conceived by the Turkish leader, was supposed to arouse Iran's suspicions. The Islamic Republic, as you know, is building quite modern Shahed 129 attack drones. Whether they will get into a special operation is still a big question, and there is no objective evidence even of the purchase of equipment by the Russian side. But Erdogan is worried, and for good reason.

Deliveries of Turkish cars to Russia can finally raise the prestige of drones - there will be a priori more moments of successful use, and the whole world will know about them. The reasons for this were discussed above. Let such efficiency become black PR for some countries, but in the modern world it looks like quite effective advertising. Third world countries, for which Bayraktar was built, will appreciate Turkish winged drones.

And, of course, success in this matter will once again flatter Erdogan's vanity, who stubbornly demonstrates a desire to sit on all chairs, knocking out preferences from both NATO and geopolitical competitors. But it is precisely this feature, apparently, that repels the Russian leadership from even closer integration with Ankara. At least in memory, the destruction of the Su-24 in Syria seven years ago. Who will guarantee that Erdogan will not stick another knife in his back? The modern Turkish status of "friend of Ukraine" also does not contribute to the rapprochement of countries.


Iranian Shahed 129. Source: wikipedia.org

In any case, Russia now needs to be flexible. If the necessary conjuncture is created, then Erdogan will give the go-ahead both to the supply of Bayraktar and to the construction of a plant in Russia. Therefore, the Kremlin will keep this possibility in reserve. After all, Iranian drones are not yet at the front, and problems with them are also quite palpable. For example, the need to flash software and interfaces from Iranian to Russian.

Now we are witnessing a subtle and very complex political game in which several layers of tacit negotiations are hidden under the official picture.

There is only one recipe for the existing difficulties - the harmonious development of the armed forces in accordance with world standards. In the case of the UAV, we really had a failure, recognized already at the very top. You have to catch up in a hurry, in conditions when the equipment was needed yesterday. In the meantime, Russia refutes the provocative statements of the leaders of countries claiming to be temporary partners.

By the way, a new legitimate target for VSK will soon appear in Ukraine - for the old Bayraktar TV2 and the heavy Bayraktar Akinci On August 12, Haluk Bayraktar announced the start of the construction of an assembly plant.
92 comments
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  1. +23
    25 August 2022 04: 19
    I don’t know, have the Russians gone completely stupid to take Erdogan’s words seriously? This is nonsense that needs to be shown, as it were, Turkey’s equal distance from Russia and Ukraine, in essence, Turkey uses Ukraine, like NATO, as a tool against Russia and the last Turkish statement that the return of Crimea, a condition for peace negotiations, confirms this.
    1. +7
      25 August 2022 07: 18
      1. The other day, Razhyap announced the "occupation of Crimea", so everything is clear with him.
      2. This "bayraktar" is not so modern, we are quite capable of making such a thing, especially since we now have enough samples.
      3. Turkey is a NATO member with which, according to the official media, we are at war.
      1. +10
        25 August 2022 09: 00
        1) Erdogan plays his game with active maneuvering. To get money, give the right message, look like a peacemaker and a leader worthy of the "Great" in history.
        2) The problem of RI, the USSR and Russia is that the samples are a wagon, and if they are cunningly compared with others, then this is ahead of all world analogues. However, there have always been huge problems with scaling the sample. Sense from 4-9 Orions, which means that at one point in time there are a maximum of 2 devices per 1300 km of the front.
        3) NATO has not yet escalated even to the level of Uncle Joe and Khrushchev. I repeat. Aircraft taking off from bases in Romania, which work out targets under AWACS and their own strong air defense circuit. What will it be? But in 51-52, the Americans experienced it on themselves, they shouted in the press, but in fact they wiped themselves off. Or American Ro-Roshki clogged with air defense / tanks with vacationers, under huge US flags, go to Odessa. They unload there under the slogan, if at least one bomb falls on the port, at least one American suffers, then you will pay. AND? And the Americans in the 70s wiped themselves. And when, by chance, a Thunderchief link bombed and covered the Soviet ship in Kamfa, Nixon personally apologized.
        1. +1
          25 August 2022 09: 10
          Or American Ro-Roshki clogged with air defense / tanks with vacationers, under huge US flags, go to Odessa.

          The goal of the United States is for the Slavic conflict to last as long as possible. And they themselves are not going to climb.
          1. +15
            25 August 2022 09: 27
            Well, I just showed that NATO has not yet come to the war, even to the level of Korea / Vietnam / Arab-Israeli. Arms deliveries are arms deliveries, training l / s is training l / s, for example, the same thing happens with the army of Mali (part in Russia, part in the country under instructors - does this mean that Russia is fighting for the government of Mali?).

            Their strategy, while working, must be recognized. Results:
            - The EU, which have cut their armies, are running around throwing billions of money at corporations. The total announced emergency spending on the military-industrial complex by the EU alone (without Britain) has already exceeded 500 billion euros.
            - NATO received 2 rich and high-tech countries in strategically important areas. Let me remind you that the armies of Sweden and Finland are significantly higher than the average level of NATO in terms of equipment and new military equipment.
            - In the United States, the military-industrial complex is actively loaded, not only in hyped areas (high-tech, aviation), but also in hitherto crisis areas (the same tyazhmash - out there, G.D. is deploying an additional site for the modernization of the Abrams).
            - The transfer of Ukraine from warehouses to factories is indicated. Now an increasing percentage of spending will go not to emergency deliveries from stock, but to planned deliveries from factories, which again, jobs, workload, GDP growth, etc. In general, the electors vote in favour. And it's still the Respies who have not won the elections, namely they are the main lobbyists of military corporations.
            1. -2
              25 August 2022 18: 05
              So. And not so. There are ravines.

              Mass cuts in the real sector of production began in the USA.

              Ford lays off 3000 employees to cut costs amid record inflation. And trying to adapt to Biden's "green agenda" with the transition to electric vehicles. At the same time, the cost of the F-8000 Lightning electric car, which Biden himself recently advertised, rises sharply - by $ 150.

              Already 46% of American companies are starting to lay off (https://www.foxbusiness.com/economy/half-us-companies-preparing-cut-jobs-survey-shows) employees - and 52% are freezing new hires. At this rate, America faces an explosive rise in unemployment as winter approaches, with a recession that the White House will no longer be able to ignore.

              The real estate market in the US is bursting at the seams. Sales of new homes in July collapsed (https://www.zerohedge.com/personal-finance/us-new-home-sales-crashed-july-lowest-saar-jan-2016) by as much as 30% - to the lowest value in 6 years. Mortgage rates are rising rapidly - and they threaten to collapse the mortgage bubble that has been inflating for the past 13 years.

              The number of Americans suffering from an economic shock is reaching (https://www.zerohedge.com/markets/gallup-poll-reveals-record-number-americans-are-suffering-surpassing-2008-crisis-levels) to record levels in recent decades . And Biden, who has fallen asleep in the White House, has nothing to offer them - except for mocking appeals class-americans) to buy solar panels at a discount. The political class in the United States has always been characterized by elitism. But he has never been so out of touch with reality as in the current era of dying Bidenism.


              1. +10
                25 August 2022 18: 41
                Corporations are always firing people. It will not be superfluous to find out what 3000 is for Ford where 175-190k works.

                As for, America will fall apart tomorrow since the time of Khrushchev, and as for the bubble, it will burst since the time of Bush Jr.

                And yes, the growth of orders in the military-industrial complex just stimulates the economy. These 3000 released by Ford will be absorbed by G-M, G-D. They will assemble FMTV chassis in Texas for Himars instead of Fords.
                1. -8
                  25 August 2022 18: 46
                  Quote: donavi49
                  these 3000 released by the ford will be absorbed by G-M, G-D. Will be in Texas to assemble FMTV chassis for Himars instead of Fords

                  Win, as usual? wink
                  1. +9
                    25 August 2022 18: 55
                    Well, why not? Now, if Ford kicked out 30k people, then yes. For the Ford 3000, this is a natural movement. They don’t write the news that there is a DISASTER in the supermarket closest to your home! EVERYTHING IS CRASHING! FIRED THE GUARD AND 2 SELLERS IN THE HALL!

                    Just drop in and see for yourself:
                    Cuts close: Ford decided to lay off 7 thousand employees
                    May 2019 - Ford still hasn't fallen apart.

                    Ford dumps from India - for all of a sudden, the Indian car market is that Kama Sutra.
                    Ford has decided to leave the largest car market in the world
                    The total production capacity of both enterprises reaches 440 thousand cars a year, but today Ford uses no more than 25% of their capacity. Factory closures will result in dismissal of about 4 thousand people.

                    And again, 1,5 years have passed, and the Ford still has not collapsed.
                    1. -8
                      25 August 2022 19: 04
                      Quote: donavi49
                      1,5 years have passed, and the Ford still has not collapsed

                      Yeah, don't care about him. saliva Yes
                2. +2
                  25 August 2022 21: 42
                  Quote: donavi49
                  Corporations are always firing people. It will not be superfluous to find out what 3000 is for Ford where 175-190k works.

                  I know. And all the other facts you missed
                  no comment? wink
                  About the state of the real estate market?
                  About raising the refinancing rate, despite the fact that wages have not been growing for 10 years, and inflation is growing? You are right, of course. bully
                  But the extreme collapse of the US banking system began precisely with the fall in the real estate market. But then there was no such inflation and the situation was saved by quantitative easing. Now - will not save.
                  It's good that you remember Khrushchev.
                  I will answer by analogy: no one expected the fall of the USSR. And it, to my great regret, happened.
                  1. +3
                    26 August 2022 07: 09
                    I know. And all the other facts you missed
                    no comment? wink
                    About the state of the real estate market?

                    You need to take care of yourself, and not wait for the "death of Roosevelt."
                  2. +6
                    26 August 2022 08: 29
                    The world is unpredictable. Maybe yes, maybe no. One can recall Reaganomics, where experts shouted that Reagan would now personally kill the United States to the delight of the advice. But in fact, the fever was a little bit and the project shot very hard.

                    There is no universal recipe for crisis or growth. Maybe something will happen, or maybe not. The crisis of real estate in the United States since 2008 periodically, while holding.

                    You can also add something unpleasant, the whole world works for the USA, especially now. No one really talks to Russia, maximum fellow travelers, but against 3/4 of the golden billion and all premium markets are blocked for the export of non-energy products.

                    Сonclusion Manturov already calls for preparing for the worst crisis since 2008:
                    The non-primary industry of Russia is waiting for the strongest collapse over the past 13 years, the Ministry of Industry and Trade predicts.

                    According to the results of the year, production in the manufacturing sector will decrease by 6%, said the head of the department, Denis Manturov, on Friday at an extraordinary meeting of the State Duma. In reality, the drawdown will be even greater, because the final figure includes the military-industrial complex.

                    The fall in exports and the closure of Western markets "will lead to a decrease in volumes in the most capacious industries, including metallurgy, the chemical complex and the timber industry," Manturov said. The auto industry, where 20 out of 18 plants stopped, according to the minister, will end the year with a 50% decline.

                    Suppliers of Russian Railways were left without foreign bearings and are massively curtailing production: diesel locomotives - by 63%, freight cars - by 52%, passenger cars - by 40%.

                    According to Rosstat, glass production collapsed by 60%, washing machines by 59%, refrigerators by 58%, electric motors and televisions by 50%, elevators and baking equipment by 35%.

                    Metallurgy, the second largest industry in terms of contribution to GDP after oil and gas, has become unprofitable: all major companies operate with negative profitability.
                    1. 0
                      26 August 2022 09: 30
                      Everything is sad with the auto industry, you are right,
                      but parallel import on the sly
                      will improve the situation.
                      All others you listed
                      The problems are, in my opinion,
                      those that could not be avoided.
                      And they will have to be dealt with. Anyway.
                      Himself. We're not going anywhere from this.
                      Of course, I do not call to rejoice
                      the fact that the neighbor's "cow died."
                      We really need to hold on.
                      And not a couple of months, but a year or two.
                      The more difficult the situation in the West,
                      and the greater success we will achieve,
                      the sooner they will have to negotiate.
                      Moreover, we will negotiate with
                      other leaders in the West. Those,
                      whoever is in power now is likely to leave.
                      Along with their current policy.
                      Much can be said on the subject, however
                      comment format does not allow. So
                      what is as it is. Don't claim. wink
      2. +5
        25 August 2022 10: 17
        I will never trust this mustachioed creature...
        1. +1
          25 August 2022 18: 13
          He doesn't have to believe. Let's just take note that he is very worried about what will happen when we agree on drones with Iran. Sanctions on Iran will soon be lifted, Iran will take away the drone market from the Turks as soon as Russia buys these 1000 of its own. But the odds
          the Turk does not have to change something, but his interest is useful to us,
          when discussing the price with the Iranians.
          As for the plant, Iran has already built it for us. So
          that the Sultan is not in vain worried. bully
        2. +1
          25 August 2022 20: 55
          Quote: Paul Siebert
          I will never trust this mustachioed creature.

          hi
          And you don't have to believe. Turkey, first of all, is on its side, we must pay tribute to Erdogan, he skillfully and effectively uses his seat, varying between the West, the States and Russia. He also drools over the Crimea, like Khokhlomani.
          He speaks and does, but we only chat and show concern, if they don’t say something bad about us.
          I considered and still consider the sale of the S400 to Turkey, a system that will be in service with the Russian Federation for more than a decade, as a betrayal of the nat. interests of the country, but even then, we were obliged to raise the issue of buying bayraks, building an assembly plant and transferring technologies. (IMHO)
          Old Russian fun, to catch up and overtake, because Russia's budget is "boundless"!
        3. +3
          25 August 2022 21: 40
          I will never fully trust any politician. An honest politician is no longer a politician.
      3. 0
        25 August 2022 11: 47
        Yes, quite capable. In general, we can handle any business.
        Quote: Civil
        There is one nuance - there are absolutely not enough “Pacers” in the shock troops

        Those. everything is fine with "Pacer". One problem - they are not. And everything is wonderful.
      4. avg
        +1
        25 August 2022 12: 09
        Bayraktar is easily riveted in an intelligent circle of aircraft modellers, having the appropriate components from the USA, Canada, Austria and a number of other European countries. But who will supply them to us? And Erdogan's speech is an undisguised PR of the family business.
      5. +1
        25 August 2022 15: 44
        1. Well, not "the other day", but since 2014 he has been repeating almost continuously. Which, however, does not prevent him from implementing fairly large joint projects with the Russian Federation.
        2. We can do it, but they are needed in large volumes, let's say an extra small factory will not hurt.
        3. There is no war with NATO itself, we have a serious war rather with the so-called "West" (I don’t even know what to call it) and basically only economic, although in everything else they try to serve us as much as possible for us.
      6. Alf
        +3
        25 August 2022 19: 07
        Quote: Civil
        We now have enough samples.

        Samples - Yes, but what about factories and components?
      7. 0
        14 September 2022 17: 22
        You can also make a more modern one if there are Western spare parts. And they are not.
    2. +2
      25 August 2022 09: 58
      Several hundred UAVs before the NWO would certainly not hurt, but now no one will allow Turkey to do this ..
      1. -4
        25 August 2022 15: 51
        Yes, which one will not give)))
        They will produce not Bayraktar, but Selmashkar at some yesterday-created UgolPromShluzMash LLC with an authorized capital of 15000 rubles, somewhere near Omsk, and they will not get anything for it.
        The schemes are working, debugged, nothing complicated.
        1. Alf
          +4
          25 August 2022 19: 12
          Quote: Kawado
          Will produce

          Produce or collect? The difference is drastic.
          They also shouted about Lynx that we would localize, but in fact they only screwed on the nameplate.
          1. -1
            26 August 2022 10: 11
            At this stage, it does not matter, Moscow was not built right away. I am sure that we will also produce over time. But of course not right away. If the task is set and funds are allocated, then the only question is time.
            1. Alf
              +1
              26 August 2022 19: 57
              Quote: Kawado
              If the task is set and funds are allocated, then the only question is time.

              How much has already been "delivered" and "allocated" in Russia, and then the things are gone and the money is "settled" somewhere ...
              Quote: Kawado
              At this stage, it doesn't matter

              Very important. There is such a very famous company Tsanradfabrik in Germany. She makes boxes all over the world, including in Russia for Kamaz. But here's the moment - the official position of the company sounds - in any country in the world our checkpoints can be made, but we will produce the most important part only in Germany.
              Result-ZF left Russia and all our trucks, including military ones, were left without a checkpoint.
              1. 0
                31 August 2022 09: 07
                How much has already been "delivered" and "allocated" in Russia, and then the things are gone and the money is "settled" somewhere ...

                Well, frankly speaking, this is quite a rare case, so that all the money is "accustomed somewhere", more often they steal, but still they do the job.
                and all our trucks, including military ones, were left without checkpoints.

                what is there for a super part of the checkpoint, which cannot be made in Russia?
                You intrigued me as a mechanical engineer, now I can’t sleep.
        2. -1
          25 August 2022 20: 29
          You know, they hit you in the face not on your passport .. As soon as information comes up in the Western intelligence services about the preparation for the production in Russia of something military from the components supplied from the West, it will end all at once and it’s especially bad for those people from the West who started it .. There’s no spoil you! This is not a totalitarian Russia where everything is bad.
    3. 0
      25 August 2022 11: 00
      Quote: Julian
      I don’t know, have the Russians gone completely stupid to take Erdogan’s words seriously?

      No more than the Bulgarians .... We do not need these Turkish "Ensigns". In order to use them as efficiently as possible in our army, it is necessary to Russify its software, and this is again the time during which we will start producing our "Pacers". The same applies to Iranian UAVs. The only way they can help us now is by supplying the scarce components we need for the production of our own UAVs
    4. The comment was deleted.
    5. 0
      25 August 2022 20: 30
      Unfortunately, this one believes that Crimea is Turkish territory. But we can also block the pipe to the Turkish Stream.
    6. -2
      25 August 2022 22: 03
      Yulik, whose will you be? It's so illiterate to write, you need to learn
  2. +18
    25 August 2022 04: 47
    Yes, this is nonsense! First of all, we need to make not only drone hulls, we also need high-tech and high-precision stuffing, which the Turks almost don’t have, like ours, otherwise we would send Altiuses and Orions to the front in batches. Who will allow the Turks to allow their electrics, optics, electronics, the same afars, for example, to be imported into Russia? Yes, Europe itself will impose such sanctions against the Turks that the Turkish economy will fall completely! I wonder why the Kremlin does not buy Persian ubblas, even according to gray schemes, if the release of their own is a complete ass?
  3. +3
    25 August 2022 05: 00
    Russian Bayraktar - Erdogan's bluff or forced decision

    ***
    “When a country acquires any weapons from us or from any other country, it ceases to be Turkish, Russian or Ukrainian. That is, as soon as they bought weapons from us, they ceased to be Turkish. "...
    Turkish Foreign Minister Cavusoglu
    - (Nothing personal...)
    ***
  4. +9
    25 August 2022 05: 34
    One question why? Why do we need Turkish UAVs. We need to introduce and supply our own developments to the aircraft. In general, I don’t understand why the Russian Federation invested our money in Turkey? All cunning plans and steps end in failure when we are dealing with such cheaters as the EU and even more so Erdogan. didn't learn anything
  5. +9
    25 August 2022 05: 35
    The author can be treated differently ... But when he writes that everything will have to be "translated from the Iranian language", you begin to understand that the author is at least poorly educated. For the state language in Iran is Persian. And no separate "Iranian language" simply does not exist.
    1. +9
      25 August 2022 06: 45
      . After all, Iranian drones are not yet at the front, and problems with them are also quite palpable. For example, the need to flash software and interfaces from Iranian to Russian.

      The author can be treated differently ... But when he writes that everything will have to be "translated from the Iranian language", you begin to understand that the author is at least poorly educated. For the state language in Iran is Persian. And no separate "Iranian language" simply does not exist.

      It's funny to read that.
      The software that is “flashed”, obviously, into the program memory of the UAV controller, is written not in Iranian, not in Persian, and not even in English, but in a high-level programming language, and often by different programmers in different pieces, then it is compiled and converted into machine codes, which are actually flashed, and there are no language problems with this.
      As for the interface language, that is, what the operator will work with, it really should be translated into Russian. But talking about the firmware of this program is simply illiterate, you can talk about installing or installing software on a computer or tablet (but not in a UAV). In this case, it is not the executable program itself that should be translated, but some text inserts in the source program, and this is not the work of the programmer, but the translator, the programmer will simply stupidly insert the desired text in the right place, this is all done elementarily and quickly - how to send two bytes!
    2. +3
      25 August 2022 06: 45
      We clarify
      Farsi
    3. +6
      25 August 2022 07: 26
      And from Turkish, in his opinion, is it not necessary?) He is like a native to us.))
    4. +3
      25 August 2022 07: 34
      the official language in Iran is Persian
      Persian also does not exist. Farsi exists. Very related to Tajik. Dial operators in Moscow from Tajiks
  6. 0
    25 August 2022 05: 37
    Why shouldn't Turkey build a Bayraktar plant in Azerbaijan? No risks at all..
    1. +6
      25 August 2022 06: 06
      Quote: parusnik
      Why shouldn't Turkey build a Bayraktar plant in Azerbaijan?

      Money and the risk of being unclaimed in the right amount.
      As for the purchase of UAVs from Turkey, the position of the Turkish Foreign Ministry on Crimea and the continuation of the conflict in Ukraine cannot put this country among allies, even of the lowest rank - temporary.
      1. 0
        25 August 2022 08: 28
        Turkey does not know how to produce its engines for drones. Cooperation with Ukraine is based on the provision of engines from the Motor Sich plant. If this plant with equipment and personnel comes under Russian control, bayraktars will once again run out. Russia has the production of engines, but there is a shortage of drones. The logic in Erdogan's words is visible. Another thing is that many other factors will not allow him to realize this with all his desire.
        1. +1
          26 August 2022 01: 08
          The Bayraktar TB2 uses a piston engine.
          Austrian-made Canadian Rotax 912 or Turkish TEI PD170 (after the Canadians refused to supply).
          Motor Sich does not produce engines of this type.
          Zaporozhye AI-450S turboshaft engines developed and produced by Ivchenko-Progress were used for pilot batches of new heavy Bayraktar Akıncı.
          There are 3 different variants called Akıncı A, Akıncı B and Akıncı C, each with different engines.
          Akinchi A - Zaporozhye, Akinchi B - Canadian Pratt & Whitney Canada PT6A-135A.
          A variant with piston turbodiesel PD-222 is also being discussed.
          Akinchi and TV2 will not be left without engines in any case, the only question is the characteristics.
          1. -1
            27 August 2022 09: 19
            Yep, straight. When did the Canadians impose sanctions on Bayraktar there? There has been cooperation with Motor Sich for more than a year. And everything is delivered there.
  7. +6
    25 August 2022 06: 32
    Yes, what nafig bayraktars, and in general, what kind of military-technical cooperation is there with a NATO country that does not recognize Crimea as Russian and is headed by a cunning sultan. They didn’t have time to develop their own, but UAVs are needed now - it’s better to buy shaheds from Iran, I think so.
    1. +2
      25 August 2022 09: 36
      Iran also does not recognize Crimea as Russian. Prior to Boeing, relations between Iran and Ukraine were generally excellent.

      Iran has always supported the sovereignty and territorial integrity of Ukraine and has never recognized the illegal annexation of Crimea by Russia.

      This was stated Ambassador Extraordinary and Plenipotentiary of the Islamic Republic of Iran to Ukraine Mohammad Beheshti-Monfared during a press conference in Kyiv on the occasion 39th anniversary of the Islamic Revolution and 25th anniversary of the establishment of relations between Iran and Ukraine.

      "We have always fully supported the sovereignty and territorial integrity of Ukraine. And we wish peace, stability and tranquility to be established in Ukraine. The Islamic Republic of Iran has never recognized the annexation of Crimea", - said the ambassador.
      1. 0
        25 August 2022 15: 46
        I know, although I haven’t read Iranian statements, I remember the map of countries that recognized Crimea.
        I mean, Iran is now a more valuable potential ally.
  8. +1
    25 August 2022 06: 49
    Putin told me that he wants to work with Baykar. He suggested setting up a plant in Russia
    It turns out that he lied and did not blink an eye, which his son-in-law indirectly confirmed: “We did not deliver or provide anything to them. We will never do that." It is easier to state in public that Russia is obliged to return Crimea to Ukraine than to admit to cooperation with Russia in terms of UAVs. And in Ukraine, the Turks will not start building a plant now, because. they are well aware that they will lose the money spent on it. And about the fact that it is high time for Russia to pay attention to the production of its UAVs, they have been talking for a long time.
    1. +2
      25 August 2022 07: 38
      Quote: rotmistr60
      And in Ukraine, the Turks will not start building a plant now, because. well aware that they will lose the money spent on it

      Why build if Ukraine is ready to sell Crimea to Erdogan, if only he does not recognize it as part of the Russian Federation? Erdogan - that "little thing", despite all the assurances, will always play dirty tricks on the sly.
      1. +1
        25 August 2022 08: 22
        Erdogan is on his mind, as well as everything in this world. And the Russians still have the illusion that someone is obliged to love them simply because they exist. Isn't it time to get rid of childish infantilism and understand that all countries in this world are pursuing their own interests exclusively. And if they match yours, then it's good, and if not, then no. No one promised to love you because you were born into the world as Russians. All this friendship, even with China, even with Kazakhstan, even with Iran, even with Belarus, is temporary alliances for the "so far profitable" period.
  9. +3
    25 August 2022 07: 00
    The army needs combat-ready drones and ammunition for them, not 3.14 ... f
    about the name of analogues. Need:
    1. Ready-to-use machines,
    2.Machine kits for assembly,
    3. A set of components: engine, mechanization, devices (radar, sensors, radio unit) in this order.
    I hope they learned how to make a stuffed one, we don’t need imported ones without stuffing.
  10. -6
    25 August 2022 07: 28
    The Turk is unreliable, like But father, for example. You need to rely on Iran.
    1. -2
      25 August 2022 08: 16
      Well, yes, well, yes, but when the Americans entice Iran, about whom will you sing sweet-voiced songs, about aliens from the constellation Alpha Centauri? So far, the most reliable ally is just the Old Man. It was from its territory that you entered Kyiv, and by no means from the territory of Iran. And the Ukrainians do not keep the grouping on the border with Belarus out of boredom. And she could have gone to the Donbass.
      1. 0
        26 August 2022 11: 10
        "The Americans will lure Iran" did not read further ... With this - to a psychiatrist.
        1. -3
          27 August 2022 09: 16
          He-he-he, kid, your naivety just does not allow you to imagine how many years the US and Iran have been fruitfully cooperating. )) So that you would increase the level of your knowledge about the world around you, and the level of intelligence at the same time, before you send someone for a fool? By the way, what is jingoism-patriotism still not being treated in Russian fools? And how is fraternal Venezuela there, is it still an ally to you or not so much? And brotherly Kazakhstan? ))
          1. -1
            28 August 2022 07: 01
            Chubaty, fantasize further.
            1. -3
              28 August 2022 14: 39
              You yourself are chubat. ))
              1. -1
                29 August 2022 06: 58
                Take care of the fart, Svidomit!) Soon you will be giving evidence to the FSB "Azov".))
                1. 0
                  29 August 2022 10: 06
                  laughing laughing laughing laughing Yes, you look like a local comedian. Made me laugh. You look, do not tear your throat when yelling. It still doesn't help win. And we had a laugh to watch the work of your FSB, both after Vovk was detained, and because for 8 hours they were terrorized by an eccentric with a gun in their building in St. Petersburg. You, a comedian, don't serve in the FSB for an hour? And there is a noticeable resemblance. Also very funny. bully
                  1. -1
                    29 August 2022 10: 16
                    A chubat degenerate, he is a chubat degenerate in everything.
  11. +2
    25 August 2022 07: 32
    The engine, optics, electronics, ammunition for Bayraktar are NOT TURKISH. What's left? Not the most perfect glider. Well, is he pushing us? Here urgently buy a couple of hundred right now, it may be necessary. And in the future, no prospects. By the way, why not take away from Azerbaijan? For temporary use.
    1. 0
      25 August 2022 09: 39
      And this, by the way, is an interesting scheme for circumventing sanctions. Under the guise of assembly kits and spare parts for UAVs, you can freely buy anything. What, the Turks will not agree to make money out of the blue?
  12. +2
    25 August 2022 08: 11
    For example, the need to flash software and interfaces from Iranian to Russian
    In the course of us Turkish, as a native, there will be no difficulties. laughing In Iran they speak Iranian, in Mexico they speak Mexican, in Algeria they speak Algerian... smile And so, at present, the majority of the Iranian population - 60% speaks Farsi (Iranian group), about 40% in Azerbaijani.
  13. 0
    25 August 2022 08: 12
    Quote: Thrifty
    Yes, this is nonsense! First of all, you need to make not only drone hulls, you also need high-tech and high-precision filling ...

    This is the first comment in a few days with which I fully agree with every word. Finally, at least someone said something smart, except for the all-consuming jingoistic patriotic antics.
  14. +1
    25 August 2022 09: 54
    That the article, that its discussion is a transfusion from empty to empty. Russia bought only Israeli Forpost drones, and then, at the best of times, when it was possible to transport components for their repair.
    Now only politicians can make such statements, but the purchase of foreign, even Turkish, even Iranian drones is a bad idea, their joint production is even worse.
    And "interface language" is not the biggest problem. What is a UAV? This is just a glider, which has a motor, electronics, and other units that are not produced by either Turkey or Iran, but are brought from abroad. In the current conditions, where to get them? You can, of course, redesign with available components, but this is analogous to designing a new car. And why then the whole garden?
    Further. Bayraktar has shown himself to be a "clear sky" machine, and he does not live in the Ukrainian sky for long. And no matter how they scold the Ukrainian air defense, it will also not let the Russian "Bayraktar" live long.
    It is not enough to localize production with us, we need to install our "friend or foe" systems (this takes time), and also make UAVs friends with our air defense and our troops. After all, ours are used to shooting them down, and when it flies, you can’t make out the identification marks from the ground. Even if the entire device is painted in the colors of the Russian flag, there are no guarantees that ours will not shoot it down. "Do you see Bayraktar? But it's not there!" (film "DMB-2022").
    In short, a topic for conversation between politicians and couch experts, and nothing more
  15. 0
    25 August 2022 10: 17
    In Turkey, there is a whole layer of the military who are in favor of rapprochement with Russia, they just supported Erdogan during the putsch. Erdogan has a terrible situation on the nose of the elections, and for the sake of the votes of the large diaspora of the Crimean Tatars, statements were made about not recognizing Crimea. This is a subtle game of an excellent tactician but a mediocre strategist Erdogan on the eve of the elections is nothing more. The position of Turkey now, like Finland, after the Great Patriotic War, is knocking out nishtyaks from all partners. Turkey has a strong demographic crisis like in Russia among the Turks, while entire provinces become Kurdish dominated by the Kurdish population. Therefore, Turkey's desperate desire to lure as many emigrants from Central Asia and Russia as possible places a bet on Muslims who are persecuted in their homeland because of their beliefs. Since the Turkish special services are better versed in Islam, and therefore those who are branded Wahhabis in other places, they are accepted by weeding out radicals at the entrance.
  16. -1
    25 August 2022 10: 18
    Turkey is a cunning enemy. At the moment, Bayratars are not the most relevant UAVs. For 2 million dollars, instead of 1 Bayraktar, you can produce 20 Eagles -10!
  17. +5
    25 August 2022 10: 52
    These are all legends and myths of ancient Greece)) Erdo will never do this, he has already exhausted the limit of the patience of the West with his double-dealing. Plus, "Bayraktar Makina" itself will immediately face sanctions on the supply of Western components for the manufacture of UAVs, in particular electronics, if they decide to turn such a feint with their ears.
  18. 0
    25 August 2022 11: 30
    These stories need to be held in YOUR hands. BOTH. Not discarding any. For a promise to buy the Bayraktarov plant, we can get what we need from Turkey. in advance. And, if we need them less than Iranian ones, then these requirements can be raised to the level of unacceptable. For example, in Syria. The withdrawal of Turkish troops, or something like that. We need to prove to Erdogan that he is not the wisest politician. Especially, having behind such a country as Russia.
  19. 0
    25 August 2022 12: 16
    Probably we are talking about a new plant in the Kiev Federal District. They probably agreed that the plant would not be bombed, and subsequently worked under the order of the Russian army.
  20. DO
    0
    25 August 2022 13: 44
    The insufficient number of UAVs in the RF Armed Forces on the NMD front, here and now, is generally recognized. There is no doubt that there are problems of quickly organizing the production of a sufficient number of Russian UAV models.
    Therefore, the fastest purchases of imported UAVs for the RF Armed Forces
    there is an objective need.
    It is quite obvious that the presence of a second vendor in addition to the Iranian one, even if only declarative, somehow facilitates the work of the Russian organizers of the deal. However, the details of these negotiations are confidential, and it is pointless to discuss them on an open resource.
    Is it necessary to build an assembly plant in Russia? Probably yes, since the delivery of UAVs to Russia, hidden from the "partners", in parts is easier than the delivery of finished drones, the dimensions of which are very significant for transportation. Other aspects of the assembly, and the theoretical possibilities of localizing imported UAVs in Russia, similarly to the Israeli-Russian Forpost, are too early to discuss now.
    1. +3
      25 August 2022 14: 04
      Therefore, the fastest purchases of imported UAVs for the RF Armed Forces
      there is an objective need.

      Pendal needs a life-giving and someone to be fired, and someone else to be put on one bread and vloda for a couple of weeks, and for someone a free ticket to Siberia for a couple of years on settlements so that he can ventilate in the fresh air !!!!
      What purchases are you what?!?!!? Too late to drink Borjomi!!!
      Here it is necessary not to deal with purchases, but to launch our own production - there are developments.
      And then how many times have we changed uniforms in the army over the past 20 years ??? And what did it give???
      At the parades, if you compare the parades of my childhood and modern ones, then something doesn’t matter .. the current aunts were added in skirts and that’s it !!!
      1. DO
        0
        25 August 2022 14: 22
        Here it is necessary not to engage in procurement, but to launch your own production

        Yes, who would argue, you need to start your own production. However, sufficient productivity of production lines and the availability of their components can be achieved when the WSS is already over. However, with a shortage of drones in the RF Armed Forces, this Russian victory will be paid for by increased losses, and will happen later.
        Therefore, in parallel with the establishment of the Russian production of UAVs, imports are needed here and now. Perhaps as a temporary measure.
    2. DO
      0
      25 August 2022 14: 47
      PS
      Yes, and what imported UAVs to buy?
      Perhaps we should think not only about reconnaissance drones, but also about kamikaze drones, which can hit or immobilize (with subsequent finishing off by artillery) moving ground targets.
      For the power and amount of ammunition for strike reconnaissance drones are very limited, they are more suitable for special operations than for counter-battery combat, which is most in demand today in the NWO.
  21. 0
    25 August 2022 13: 59
    In Krabah An-2 were the kings of the air!!
  22. -1
    25 August 2022 15: 08
    Erdogan, like others, believe, do not respect yourself
  23. The comment was deleted.
  24. -1
    25 August 2022 18: 04
    Bluff or not bluff, but you need to state the facts:
    1. We need a medium and heavy strike UAV in series
    2. UAV of the eagle level is a consumable and it needs a lot
    3. The production of quadrocopters is necessary and they are also consumables.
    4. We need means to identify UAVs and launchers ... and destroy both
    5. Domestic industry does not pull mass production.
    5. Need help from outside.
  25. -1
    25 August 2022 22: 04
    Nonsense, and I'll tell you why: Iran is ready to build a plant in Russia. And their UAVs are better than these bayraktars
  26. +1
    25 August 2022 23: 45
    The Iranian bird with its appearance proves that the Iranians in the past still successfully landed an American drone with the help of an electronic warfare depot. Looks like very)))
  27. -1
    26 August 2022 00: 00
    It is wiser to promote military-technical cooperation with North Korea, Belarus, China, and Iran. In addition, we have our own production of drones, we need to make it serial by purchasing machine tools in the DPRK or China .. For the same resources, you can get 3 times more domestic drones instead of imported ones. Another thing is the time factor. In addition, the uncertainty factor of Russian-Turkish interaction. Will it not work like with Nord Stream-2? A lot of money and resources were thrown into the construction, and the project was deliberately frozen by the Germans after its completion. With this money, China offered to invest in the Russia-PRC transport corridor. It is the insufficient capacity of this corridor that does not allow reorienting purchases from Europe to China. Relays paid for in July are promised to be delivered from China only in December. We can build a plant, give a license and technology for the production of the Beiraktar model. But it is possible at the last moment to find out that there are three key components or tools for machine tools that cannot be brought to Russia, and without them it is easier and faster to develop your own new drone and build your own plant for it than to buy or produce import substitution of these components..
  28. -3
    26 August 2022 00: 30
    “Putin told me that he wants to work with Baykar. He suggested setting up a plant in Russia, as was also done recently in the UAE.”
    Erdogan is trying to raise the shattered prestige of the bayraktars.
    How can you take this seriously?
    At the beginning, let Erdogan tell you how much Turkish is in these bayraktakras?
  29. +1
    26 August 2022 09: 26
    Maybe even rename the Moscow Aviation Institute. Sergo Ordzhonikidze at the Institute. Erdogan?
  30. -2
    27 August 2022 12: 28
    KHERSON.. What is the construction of the plant in Russia? This prodigy, even in Turkey, is 70 percent screwdriver assembly ..
  31. 0
    27 August 2022 22: 24
    Quote: Paul Siebert
    I will never trust this mustachioed creature...

    And rightly so.
    The Janissaries again showed their "suck" by refusing to sell us their UAVs.
    Our effective managers do not teach the work of the great Zhirinovsky.
  32. +1
    29 August 2022 21: 25
    Russia and Turkey are old military-technical partners,

    I read this far and didn't read any further.
  33. 0
    31 August 2022 17: 35
    this is some kind of disgrace and shame to buy their drones from Iran. What has the country been brought to? It still remains to beg them from the Arabs or from the blacks in Africa. And after all, in fact, no one in our country was responsible for the failed situation with the UAV. But there were and are specific people who were supposed to deal with this issue and received a lot of money for this. As long as sheer irresponsibility and general indifference reign in Russia, such failures will continue to occur in all areas.
  34. +1
    1 September 2022 09: 51
    It seems to me that the cunning Turkish fox wants to bring two birds with one stone from the hunt:
    1) hand over the son-in-law's handicrafts to Russia as a product suitable for use;
    2) study these handicrafts "mundane" by the Ukrainian side, take into account the presence of Russian know-how on them, make adjustments to their manufacturing technology, and offer the NATO allies in a finalized form.

    Question: Do we need it?
    1. 0
      14 September 2022 09: 49
      This is not a craft, but an established product in its class. They made a good product, advertised well, sold well, squeezed the market for such machines from monopolists (USA and Israel). Orion plus or minus a similar car, but a little larger .... what did we do? Compared to the Turks? Unlike the Turks, the Russian Federation has an advantage - a huge market in its Army ....
  35. 0
    14 September 2022 09: 47
    And why silence with Kronstadt? Orions lit up ... and some kind of silence. They write neither good nor bad. Died? Technically, there are no technologies inaccessible to the Russian Federation ....
  36. 0
    14 September 2022 12: 44
    Erdogan chasing his dreams, Ottoman Empire. And you can't trust his words. He says one thing, does another, thinks a third. The meanest "friend". Having such a friend and enemies is not necessary.