State tests of the Sprut-SDM1 self-propelled anti-tank gun completed

State tests of the Sprut-SDM1 self-propelled anti-tank gun have been completed, the equipment is expected to be in the troops soon. This was announced by the first deputy head of the state corporation "Rostec" Vladimir Artyakov.

According to a representative of the state corporation, the equipment has passed the required tests, all the necessary documents are being prepared, after which the equipment should be adopted by the Russian army.

Its state tests have already been completed. In the near future, we expect the assignment of the letter "O1" to this model, after which the vehicle can be put into service (...) It is multifunctional, capable of overcoming water obstacles without preparation in waves up to three points and simultaneously firing afloat. Can fight in the highlands, and in a tropical climate, and in swampy areas

- leads RIA News Artyakov's words.

"Sprut-SDM1", created on the basis of the BMD-4, received a new fire control system, a power plant, an information and control chassis system, a new sighting system and the most modern software and hardware. Also, "Octopus" received an additional remote-controlled machine gun installation.

State tests of a self-propelled gun for the Airborne Forces began in August 2020. Earlier it was reported that the Ministry of Defense had already decided to adopt the Sprut-SDM1 into service, training commanders of a self-propelled anti-tank gun or a light tank for the Airborne Forces, as this machine is also called, is already underway.

The Sprut-SDM1 combat vehicle is armed with a 125-mm cannon, a 7,62-mm machine gun paired with it and a 7,62-mm machine gun mounted on a remote-controlled module. strong points and defensive structures of the enemy, conducting military reconnaissance and combat security.

Comments

[Dmitry Ivanov_8]

She won't do much with cardboard armor. As the events of the NWO showed.

[carstorm 11]

Her task is to work against tanks and not to enter into battles with them. She can show herself very well in the south in maneuverable battles. Which is both good and bad. Such situations, by definition, will be few.

[Frost]

Quote: carstorm 11

She can show herself very well in the south in maneuverable battles.

They will burn it right away in a maneuverable battle, this is a cardboard box. Its 12,7 mm punches into the projection at real distances. And now 12,7 is practically everywhere from Barret rifles to machine guns on pickup trucks. Sprut-SDM1 is designed for high-quality fire reinforcement of paratroopers, hence all compromises, but paratroopers are not possible if the enemy has air defense. And for 50 years there have been at least parachute landings. Chasers with stripes can be planted in this coffin before the battle, they are not a pity. Since they put forward such fantastic requirements for landing.

[carstorm 11]

You seem to imagine a maneuverable war a little differently than you should. And forget that this is not a tank. In the absence of a front line and a constantly changing environment, the rapid and abrupt movements of such anti-tank weapons will give the Airborne Forces the opportunity to strike and quickly leave. But I repeat it will work only in those conditions that are in the south. In other areas, they will not bring so much benefit.

[Dmitry Ivanov_8]

"fast and abrupt movements" - this is not about tracked vehicles. Then it is necessary to revive the developments of the late USSR on the topic "Sting". In the end, the Americans created and use the Stryker with a 105 mm gun. Or Italian wheeled tanks. In our case, you can do something similar on the basis of the BTR-82 or Boomerang. The gun can be taken from the BMP-3.
If you really really want to support the infantry, then you can do something like an BMPP (infantry support combat vehicle) with a low-pulse 152 mm cannon (break strong points and houses) and a 30 mm machine gun for easier cases on the existing base. Yes, and a 152 mm high-explosive in the forehead, any tank "does not like it." I see the armor of this BMPP as "from 30-40 mm in the forehead" with a hinge of dynamic protection against cumulative grenades and ATGMs of the previous generation.

[bayard]

Quote: carstorm 11

You seem to imagine a maneuverable war a little differently than you should.

Quote: carstorm 11

fast and abrupt movements of such anti-tank weapons will give the airborne forces the opportunity to strike and quickly leave.

And what is the advantage over the classic MBT in this case, "Octopus"?
Speed?
So the T-90M and T-73B3 are squeezed out at training grounds up to 80 km / h.
Or are you going to parachute them in the south from aircraft?
by parachute?
Or do you need him to overcome water obstacles on the move?
Will the shores let him?
It is not possible to go into the water from every shore, and even more so not to go out to every shore.
And if only for the sake of this - waterfowl, then why not make the "Octopus" based on the BMP-3M "Dragoon"? He would have floated, and with a canopy of side screens with a composite filling of 30 mm. held it on the side and forehead ... and dynamic protection could be hung on it if desired ...
Not ?
Need to parachute?
And after all, if it had been made on the basis of the Dragoon, it would have been possible to accept it not only in the Airborne Forces, but also in service with the avant-garde and reconnaissance units of the RF Armed Forces.
And with aluminum foil, they are not needed in the NE for nothing.
At a cost not lower than a new MBT.
Did the landing lobby bother?
It .
The only benefit from such a miracle can only be that one Il-76 can take on board two such "tanks" + a supply of ammo for them, and transfer them to the other end of the country with one goer in order to sharply build up forces in a remote theater of operations.
And that’s it.
But one such Il-76MD90A can take one MBT (say T-90M) with side screens removed to reduce dimensions, and transfer it to the same range.
With a supply of ammo and fuel.
Now think about what they ordered.
The value of such a (floating) vehicle would only be when designing it on the basis of the "Dragoon", equipping it with side screens - from the "Dragoon" (which also increase buoyancy) ... And they would get quite a light floating tank for reconnaissance and avant-garde units SV Armed Forces of the Russian Federation, with excellent weapons and good (for floating) protection. Capable of operating in the highlands, forcing water barriers on the move, providing fire support for the vanguard on the bridgehead, until the main forces approach. And for arming the MP of the Navy, such a tank would be very useful. Along, of course (!) With classic MBTs.
That is, make this tank CORRECT, it could be put into service with a series large enough to pay off. And for export such a handsome man would go to "Hurrah".
But ... the Ministry of Defense and the Supreme High Command are not looking for easy ways with us ... And it turns out - AS ALWAYS.
Of all the possible options for such a tank, they chose ... the worst and WEAK ... and even the most expensive! And there's nothing to fix.
And since the roads in Russia were finally put in order, we still have one, but eternal problem ...
We live with her.
We will win with her!
For Russia is strong in its unpredictability.

[Bootstrap]

Good afternoon. I always read your comments with interest. But it seems to me that you are somewhat inconsistent. A year ago, when discussing the prospects of this product, you very positively assessed its potential. What has changed? The concept is saved, the declared performance characteristics are confirmed. The customer is satisfied.

[bayard]

Quote: Bootstrap

A year ago, when discussing the prospects of this product, you very positively assessed its potential. What has changed?

I positively assessed the very possibility of obtaining a light amphibious tank. At the same time, not only for the Airborne Forces, but also for the MP and SV of the RF Armed Forces (for arming avant-garde and highly mobile units). The very possibility of transferring two such tanks over long distances with one Il-76-MD \ MD90A at once makes it possible to quickly maneuver forces on a remote / remote theater of operations.
But "Octopus-SDM" was made by order of the Airborne Forces, without regard to the interests and requirements of the SV and MP of the Navy, when the main condition was airborne landing ... and it turned out to be a light tank with "paper armor" ... which neither the SV nor the MP needed .
And at the same time, it is more expensive than MBT.
And there was no BMP-3M then - work on it and "Octopus-SDM" was carried out in parallel ... but for some reason they were not coordinated. These were completely different orders.
But in vain.
We have about 50 thousand airborne troops, and they need few such tanks. So the series will be limited. So the price tag will be ceiling.
Only an Indian order can help out this project. For several hundred of these machines for action in the mountains ...
But for the Indians, it would be much more interesting to get a similar tank based on the BMP-3M than an airborne tin can ... And not ours, but a Korean light tank, created for operations precisely in the mountains ... and having a level of protection, may well win in the Indian tender at the BMP-3M level.

Quote: Bootstrap

What has changed? The concept is saved, the declared performance characteristics are confirmed. The customer is satisfied.

The customer, this is the Airborne Forces. Neither SV nor MP need such an expensive tin can.
But the "Octopus" based on the "Dragoon" would come to the court not only of the Airborne Forces, but also of the SV, and the MP, and the Indians would not even think about their choice ... and from Southeast Asia, Oceania, Latin America, orders would be easy ... a breakthrough.

[Glagol1]

That's it. If there is air defense, then there is no landing from the air. Well, if only low-altitude helicopters, as in Gostomel.

[vlad106]

Bayraktars are needed in huge quantities.
Calibers;
Iskanders;
And of course Vanguards, Daggers, Zircons...
Not "cardboard boxes"
People need to be protected. Aviation at the end

[carstorm 11]

All that you have listed does not take settlements. Does not storm buildings. And does not hold the line of defense when necessary. As tanks were needed, so they will be. As the guns were needed, so they will be. People should be protected only without ground operations, all of the above to no avail.

[bayard]

Quote: carstorm 11

All that you have listed does not take settlements. Does not storm buildings.

Do you really think that light aluminum airborne equipment will help our assault units take cities?
Do you remember the shots of the burned-out airborne column near Gostomel?
She partially just melted there and puddles of glass!

Quote: carstorm 11

People need to be protected

Yes, people need to be protected. And for this they must be provided with appropriate armor resistance and survivability, equipment.
That equipment near Kyiv and Gostomel came by land !!!
Although she is airborne!
But there were no conditions for the landing, despite all the suddenness.
And since they came by land, they could have come in normal tanks.
Right ??
They could.
But they came on aluminum cans.
And if, in addition to tanks, there would be BMPTs and TBTRs?
And a TBTR on a tank chassis with armor at the level of ... almost a tank? Forehead, sides, side screens, engine in front, landing through the back door, or even better - a ramp?
Do you think that spaced ... burned column could survive?
Let not 100%?
Let even 70%?
I could!
And our losses with such weapons in the first - maneuverable phase would be MULTIPLE less.
And it's not just statistics. These are the lives of our soldiers.
Our citizens.
Young , healthy , beautiful ... who did not bring offspring from good girls ... many are not married at all ... they did not have time ... and they will not have time ... and for many families these were the only sons !
So should they be protected?
Or is it still planted in aluminum tins and thrown to certain death?
Think about it . This is not a useless activity.
When THOUGHT takes possession of the masses, it becomes MATERIAL.
And this applies not only to armored vehicles without armor.

[Osipov9391]

You can read this article: http://www.prisp.ru/analitics/11005-skorobogatiy-ukraina-gladiatorskie-boi-0408
There you can say the author wrote "as is" because he receives information from different sources.

What is valuable there? The fact that the Airborne Forces today is just infantry or even a militia.
Their main advantage in airborne landings has not been used and will no longer be used;
Their equipment designed for landing is absolute zero compared to the equipment of marines and motorized riflemen.
And this is the infantry for today, which is also dying and dropping out.
But training a paratrooper is much more difficult and expensive than training a motorized rifleman.
And such valuable personnel are dying because they do not have the necessary equipment.

The number of Marines in 10 thousand people was completely unacceptable. The force is universal, it could fight both on land and at sea.
Moreover, their equipment is more serious than that of the Airborne Forces.
But again, they are few.

But the worst thing is the increasing supply of Western MLRS and operational-tactical missiles to Ukraine that can hit 270-300 km.
They are already there.
And in Novofedorovka in the Crimea, where the entire 43rd OMSHAP was destroyed, most likely they were hit from Ochakov with these missiles.
Further more.
Attacks on neighboring Russian regions may begin.
Airfields, rear areas, headquarters, oil depots will be attacked.

[bayard]

Quote: Osipov9391

You can read this article: http://www.prisp.ru/analitics/11005-skorobogatiy-ukraina-gladiatorskie-boi-0408

I've read and written enough on the subject, so there's nothing new for me here. NWO has become that "moment of truth" when erroneous theories and doctrines die with all evidence. It is urgently necessary to do something with the armament of the Airborne Forces, and to rearm and strengthen it with heavy equipment, transforming the Airborne Forces into a kind of airborne rapid deployment force, but with heavy weapons and its reliable armor resistance, armored vehicles.

Quote: Osipov9391

MLRS and operational-tactical missiles hitting 270-300 km.
They are already there.

This was to be expected, and this is the reason for the right decisions.
Such missiles will not become a panacea, and if their bases are discovered, then they can be destroyed by the duty forces of the Iskander detachment - they are both long-range and more accurate.

Quote: Osipov9391

Attacks on neighboring Russian regions may begin.
Airfields, rear areas, headquarters, oil depots will be attacked.

They can.
Maybe then the "sleeper will wake up".

[Osipov9391]

And what beautiful exercises were carried out when the Airborne Forces massively parachuted from the air, throw out equipment and engage in battle with terrorists and militants.
But if you please, when the enemy is armed with countless MANPADS and other air defense systems (operating according to NATO AWACS) are not suppressed, it is impossible to land either people or equipment.
And these duralumin armored vehicles are long outdated, as is the concept of their landing in modern conditions.
If the enemy is and he has modern fighter aircraft, then these are generally dead topics.

But in order to quickly transfer heavy and real military equipment and personnel from the Far East by air closer to the front line and reinforce motorized riflemen / marines with them, this is another matter.
But these will no longer be landing troops, but some kind of mobile rapid reaction forces, but with equipment like that of the marines and motorized riflemen.

[filibuster]

(working according to NATO AWACS)

What is this AWACS that can see 600 km or more?

[hagen]

Quote: Dmitry Ivanov_8

She won't do much with cardboard armor.

MT-12 without armor and motor at all, but successfully used .... The main thing during operation is to understand that this is a self-propelled gun, not a tank

[marc75]

So it is designed to fight tanks, the gun is tank, therefore it is necessary to be in the tank's kill zone.

[hagen]

Quote: marc75

So it is designed to fight tanks, the gun is tank, therefore it is necessary to be in the tank's kill zone.

Any anti-tank gun is in the tank's kill zone. Such is his fate.

[marc75]

This is understandable, but we are talking about armor, in the presence of ATGMs, the presence of anti-tank guns, this is an anachronism from the Second World War

[hagen]

Quote: marc75

This is understandable, but we are talking about armor, in the presence of ATGMs, the presence of anti-tank guns, this is an anachronism from the Second World War

Yes, yes, yes ... I have already heard this opinion that with the availability of guided missile weapons and UAV technologies, tanks and cannon artillery will not survive on the battlefield. But while this "anachronism" works and brings success. I think that the presence of ATGMs does not cancel the capabilities of artillery, just as artillery does not cancel other methods of destroying armored objects. Each type of PT means has its own place and conditions of use. They complement each other (even within the bq of one single machine).

[KCA]

The anti-tank gun "Rapier" is generally towed and without armor, is the best target for the tank, is it all in scrap metal? But no, yesterday they only showed their participation in the NWO

[marc75]

So a lot of things are used there, but not from efficiency, but from without originality, both Malyutka and Bassoon are used there, also not from a good life

[hagen]

Quote: bulava74

So, dear, you are a sucker, since you write such posts.

I didn't ask for your opinion. It doesn't interest me at all in your style.

[max702]

Another useless (harmful) rattle .. The soldiers are asking for armor! The generals answer, take this SUCH big gun in the same place! Das is fantastic!
Well, if the phallic symbols of our lampas do not give rest, give something like Vienna on this chassis, but not like a disposable self-propelled gun PT ..

[Pereira]

The vehicle is designed for fire support of subunits, fighting armored vehicles, destroying enemy strongpoints and defensive structures, conducting military reconnaissance and outposts.

In short, THIS is planned to plug all the holes.

[Fedor M]

According to your logic, it is necessary to abandon all infantry fighting vehicles, infantry fighting vehicles and other lightly armored vehicles. It has its purpose and must be used skillfully. And Octopus is more of a support machine

[max702]

Quote: Fedor M

According to your logic, it is necessary to abandon all infantry fighting vehicles, infantry fighting vehicles and other lightly armored vehicles. It has its purpose and must be used skillfully. And Octopus is more of a support machine

The octopus is a tank destroyer and nothing else, even NONA is an order of magnitude better for supporting infantry, and the octopus is an expensive vehicle for 2-3 shots maximum .. If the same rapier is effective due to its small size, then the octopus does not shine with this, and most importantly why the tank armor? To withstand the first or retaliatory strike, how is it with the Octopus? Or in fantasies that he shot once and ran away? And where will he run away today with the saturation of anti-tank weapons in the infantry and the adjustment from the UAV? This tank can be lucky due to the armor, you look and survive, but the Octopus? And what's the point of this tin? If we want an anti-tank weapon, then there is the "Chrysanthemum" ATGM for it, and the Octopus is criminal nonsense, the same landing force buried it on the "Courage" 15 years ago! He doesn't need it! And you need a powerful and accurate support weapon, which was "Vienna", but the generals said it was expensive! Although the Octopus is even more expensive .. Tank fear and losses during the crossing of the Dnieper have become such a nightmare for our generals that they don’t want to hear anything about the changed threats, preparing for the last war .. But UAVs are not suitable for a big war! This war has come And?

[Dmitry Ivanov_8]

2 Octopuses cost the same as 3 T-90s. That's actually all. It's just that the lobby in the military-industrial complex is pushing through this completely unnecessary type of tank destroyer.

[Bad_gr]

Quote: Dmitry Ivanov_8

2 Octopuses cost the same as 3 T-90s.

Explain where this price comes from. Or give a link to the original source of this information.

[bayard]

The fact that the Octopus is not inferior or higher than the latest modification of the T-90M has already been written, incl. on that website .
And what is there to justify? Aluminum armor is more expensive than steel, the option with waterfowl and airborne landing also has its price, the Sprut's armament is at the level of modern MBT + much lower serial production.
This thing is not just useless and expensive, but it is HARMFUL. For if this goes into service, then it will certainly be to the detriment of normal tanks.
If its price is really equal to 1,5 T-90M, then therefore it is equal to about SIX upgraded to almost almost the same level of T-72B3.
SIX, Carl!
And this is a self-propelled gun \ "tank" - up to the first ATGM, RPG, tank ... or even any enemy infantry fighting vehicle / armored personnel carrier. For their weapons will sew this aluminum can guaranteed.
And this is with today's saturation of the infantry with anti-tank weapons ... WEARABLE !!!
"Octopus" is a product of the landing lobby and PR.
But ... there is one justification ... more precisely - the explanation for his birth - the hope for an Indian order.
The Hindus need a light tank for the highlands of Laddakh, where it has a troubled border with China. Conventional MBTs in the highlands lose half the power of their engines, so a lighter vehicle with a greater thrust-to-weight ratio is needed.
China has light tanks and they raised them there.
Indians now want too. Looks like a big order.
But there is also a competitor - a new Korean light tank, designed specifically for mountainous terrain.
So if the Indian tender doesn't fire...
And in the active troops such a "paper tank" is not needed for nothing. On the fronts, MBTs with good and MAXIMUM protection are needed.

[Bad_gr]

Quote: bayard

The fact that the Octopus is not inferior or higher than the latest modification of the T-90M has already been written, incl. on that website .

Yes, it has already been discussed, but again at the same level of discussion: one says more expensively, the other does not believe in it. No specific figures were given, which T-90s were included in the comparison were not indicated.
In modern armored vehicles, the main cost is not the hull with the turret, but the filling. If we take the T-90 of the first issues and compare it with the Sprut-SDM1, where there is both a panorama for the commander and a thermal channel for the gunner + target tracking, then the Sprut, of course, will turn out to be more expensive.
But when compared with the same age, with the appropriate filling, then 100% it will be much cheaper.
The hull and turret of the Octopus cannot be more expensive than the hull and turret of the modern T-90, with its multi-layer protection in the turret and hull (in VLD, in addition to steel and textolite, 2 titanium sheets, it’s not worth talking about the tower).

[bayard]

Our own judgments can only be estimates until there is official publication. At least on the State Procurement website. But the fact that it is definitely NOT CHEAPER was stated immediately and many times.
In terms of the composition of the weapons, the Octopus is an approximate analogue of the T-90, and therefore the price of weapons is also.
Frame ?
An aluminum hull is always more expensive, but taking into account the complexity of booking the T-90M, we assume that the cost of the hull is also approximately equal.
But!
"The octopus is also a floating tank, and this affects the cost a lot. In our minds, we draw "+".
And also the "Octopus" is airborne and has an adjustable clearance. And those options are worth it too.
And most importantly - "Octopus" is a new product, which, if it is produced, then in a limited series.
And the T-90 \ 90M is a serial tank produced on the basis and as a development of the T-72.
In total - if there is approximate parity in terms of hull and composition of weapons, then in terms of options:
- waterfowl,
- airdrop,
- adjustable ground clearance, - and small series ...
... get what?
That's right - a price increase relative to a serial MBT of an equal class in terms of armament.
This was announced right away.
And if the T-90M costs us about 4 million dollars. , then "Octopus will not cost less than 5, or even 6 million.
What was discussed.
But worst of all, this "tank" is absolutely useless for the RF Armed Forces. And he will not expand the capabilities of the Airborne Forces either. It will also be "fun" to burn along with the rest of the aluminum armored vehicles.
On the basis of the BMP-3M "Dragoon" hull, it would be possible to make a very good FLOATING tank with protection from 30 mm. shells in the frontal and side projections. Moreover, due to the front placement of the engine, it can either have a small troop compartment (for 3-4 people), or a place for additional ammo and other property. As well as the possibility of landing and leaving the car through the back door. And the weight of such a tank would be approximately 21 - 24 tons. Such a light amphibious tank would be equally good for both the MPs of the Navy and the Airborne Forces (the IL-76 includes 2 such tanks + a supply of ammo and fuel), and for the Ground Forces of the Russian Federation - as a light tank for reconnaissance and vanguard units.
And SUCH a tank would go very well for export.
But they made another - weak and strange.

[Fedor M]

Another "tanker"

[Fedor M]

Tank destroyers, played enough tanks. Where is the Sprut self-propelled guns ??? With a gun from a tank, not from a D-30 ...

[Ros 56]

How were they shown? Tanks were burned by fighters, simply using anti-tank systems, absolutely not protected by armor. What draws you to tank battles so much?

[Victor_B]

Nona turned out to be needed in the troops.
Has taken root.
Let's hope that the Octopus will also take root.
Only aluminum bulletproof / anti-fragmentation armor is embarrassing ...

[Victor_B]

By the way, the fate of the BMPT in real battles is extremely interesting.
And they are "there", but there are no comments on their application. Generally!

[Victor_B]

I would like to know the niche of their application.
Do they really live with tanks? OShS counts them in such a battalion?
Or is the infantry pulling them apart to accompany just their "beloved" and protect the infantry fighting vehicles and armored personnel carriers?

[Fedor M]

With BMD they live

[Victor_B]

Quote: Fedor M

With BMD they live

BMPT Terminator lives with BMD?
That is, at the landing?
The question was about him.
About the Sprut is clear here. His Airborne Forces ordered.

[darkesstcat]

It seems with tanks, but it is necessary for the guys from the front line to ask or wool in more detail.

[Alex777]

Quote: Victor_B

About the Sprut is clear here. His Airborne Forces ordered.

GRAU Octopus ordered.
Therefore, he is a cannon, not a light tank.

[Fedor M]

An article about the Octopus, not the terminator. No need to be embarrassed here

[DenVB]

Quote: Darkesstcat

All used machines are equipped with efficient KAZ

Is it true? Which KAZ?

[Victor_B]

Quote: Dingo

but there are a lot of burnt pictures on the internet ...

What pictures?
BMPT?
A link would...

[Dmitry Ivanov_8]

There was a price on the website. For what I bought, for that I sell

[fiv]

Scout car - saboteurs. If the document from the headquarters is not octopus, then at least they will destroy it from a cannon

[spirit]

The main criterion for the effectiveness of equipment for the Airborne Forces:
1) The paratroopers will not throw it out in the first days of the conflict and will transfer to ordinary "more secure" vehicles
2) Someone will even dare to fight in it at the forefront

[Two]

Wait and see! No statistics yet! There is nothing even about running in Syria.

[marc75]

And in what order of battle to shove it, is it an insufferable miracle when there is no place for him in the OShS?

[hell machine]

In my opinion, they talked about this technique back in 2015, they said a super-weapon for landing, and so on.
Objectively speaking, I don’t understand now what is the point of landing, more precisely, landing into the enemy’s deep rear (for which the Airborne Forces are actually needed). Because if they shoot down an amphibious assault aircraft with an amphibious assault, then this will be a disaster and shame for years.
For the life of me, I don’t understand how landing operations are possible now. They took the same Gostomel, but how many equipment for supplying dill were burned, which broke through there after the capture?
But where are we to "officers" who know better.
PS Well, yes, another child prodigy who will not join the troops, unfortunately, because they will start making a new prodigy

[marc75]

If it weren’t for the peculiarities of the NMD, then the landing in Gostomel, this is a successful operation, it’s just difficult to understand the final goals, in theory, a couple of MSBRs should have followed the landing, but the rear went, but it’s difficult to judge, we don’t know all the plans .... maybe there was an agreement , which dill leaked.

[Dingo]

Well, yes, another prodigy that will not go to the troops, unfortunately, because they will start making a new prodigy

You have no idea how right you are!!!
The main thing is not WHAT they blinded, but WHY ... and WHO in the department of "pontorez" Chemezov presented THIS!
Artyakov ... I remember this effectively - the "defective manager" and his gop-company ... What did they do here, at AVTOVAZ, when he was "presidency" and his gopnik managers (I have the right to say so, because gave this plant almost 40 years of his life) ... His "governorship", from which Samara and the entire Samara region howled ... I thought the term was "winding" ... But no. They "do not abandon their own" ... This substance does not sink, it surfaced again in Rostec ...
In order not to be unfounded and not to be accused of bias, and even more so - "of discrediting ..." - we go to VIKI ... what she says, even in the mildest terms:
"Interesting Facts
Vladimir Artyakov, as governor, combined the position of a civil servant and deputy chairman of the board of directors of AvtoVAZ OJSC, which is prohibited by the current Federal legislation of the Russian Federation (FZ-79 "On the state civil service"). When asked by the prosecutor's office for additional income at AvtoVAZ, a response was received stating that he did not officially receive a salary at the enterprise.[41]

In 2007, during the elections to the State Duma of the Russian Federation, Vladimir Artyakov was the leader of the regional electoral list of United Russia, it became public that in 2006 Vladimir Artyakov earned less than a billion rubles for the period of his tenure in the leadership of AVTOVAZ. Leaving the post of president of the enterprise, he did not find the strength to refuse a bonus for success of 2 billion rubles, as his successor Boris Alyoshin did. As a gift to his wife, he gave a yacht with a total value of 25-30 million rubles, naming her after Tatyana. The yacht was registered in the name of one of the ministers of housing and communal services of the Government of the Samara region, Pavel Donskoy. Weekly at the expense of the regional budget, 2-3 times a week, Vladimir Artyakov flew a charter flight home Samara - Moscow - Samara, the average cost of spending from the budget was 85 million rubles per month[42][43]

Vladimir Artyakov wears an exclusive watch "Academia Tourbillon Differentiel rose gold" from the Swiss manufacturer Greubel Forsey worth 225 Swiss francs.[43][44]

In 2010, during the leadership of the Samara region, an ecological disaster occurred in the region due to forest fires, more than 8 thousand hectares of forest burned down, which, according to the requirements of Art. 98 of the Forest Code, forests were not registered as municipal property. All this time, the Government of the Samara Region under the leadership of Vladimir Artyakov was inactive. After the fires, the prosecutor's office and the investigative department saw no reason to bring Vladimir Artyakov to criminal liability under Art. 293 of the Criminal Code negligence.[45][46] In 2017, the Samara District Court refused to satisfy the complaint of a resident of Togliatti with a request to initiate a criminal case.[47][48][49] ".
Draw your own conclusions - WHO and WHY created this MIRACLE ... What was the goal ... And how much "stuck" ...
Everything else is particular. I think that not only "SUVs" remained in the Moscow Region, but honest officers and specialists.

[vlad106]

Quote: Dingo

Draw your own conclusions - WHO and WHY created this MIRACLE ... What was the goal ...

Such "necessary figures" in Russia are simply teeming with power

[frog]

So you now remember the nephew of the most respected Sergei, EMNIP, Viktorovich It doesn't fit in at all.

[Dingo]

No, dear. I'm talking about those I know, their "deeds" and what they are capable of... Nothing personal, just facts. It is certainly not for me, a pensioner, to draw conclusions, and even more so, an analysis of these "cases". There are more qualified people for this. I would like to believe that not only in the Moscow Region, but also in other departments ...

[frog]

Oh oh oh......
As for "competent people", I personally (in relation to your message)) have not had any dreams for a long time .... So, by the way ... And for my nephew ..... the most venerable (or maybe not a nephew, rumors B- homicidal)))
At 24 (possibly 25) without higher education, he became "deputy general director, general director of OJSC Rostov Civil Aviation Plant No. 412". ". "
In 2005 he received a diploma of higher education.

In 2006, he worked as a chief expert, consultant for the department of regional and offset programs at FSUE ROSOBORONEXPORT. From 2006 to 2009, he held a number of positions at AvtoVAZ: Deputy General Director for Sales and Maintenance, Executive Director for Sales, Vice President for Sales and Marketing, Senior Vice President for Sales and Marketing.
From 2010 to 2018, he held the position of General Director of Aeroexpress LLC.
From 2014 to 2018, he held the position of General Director of JSC Concern Kalashnikov.
By Decree of the President of the Russian Federation dated June 13, 2018, he was appointed Deputy Minister of Defense of the Russian Federation. He oversees the issues of organizing military-technical support of the Armed Forces, planning the development of weapons, military and special equipment, monitoring the implementation of the state defense order, organizing patent-licensing, inventive and rationalization work in the Armed Forces.
He is a member of the Board of Directors of the Joint Stock Company United Shipbuilding Corporation, PJSC Promsvyazbank, JSC KTRV.

Born in 1975, if sho....
About children of American citizenship - in aunt Vika)) About other things - there is also a lot of information .... But that's it, evil tongues

[Dingo]

Hmm... To be honest, I was not interested in this issue... I just saw a familiar surname - and decided to check whether this "manager" that "annealed" at our factory... That one, it turns out... Then with this "cardboard box" that they blinded, everything is clear. By the way, these guys have a sense of humor. I'm talking about the name ... I remembered the Italian series of the same name, with Michele Placido in the role of Commissioner Cattani ... Parallels, however ...
Yes, and more. This "bgonevich" seems to be landing? Why am I asking? Yes, because these guys who blinded him can only "landing" with "golden parachutes" ... Checked.
As for the tests... I have one suggestion, a little cannibalistic, really.
To put these "effective managers" in this box and a burst from the KPVT (this is a machine gun for those who do not know. Caliber 14,5 mm) ... You can even in the front projection. It is better not to use a tank ammo - the soldiers at the training ground are tormented then their bodies are collected in fragments ...
So the questions will disappear immediately - who, why, for what battle, for what tasks and how much budget money ...
And the most important question for all these "Chemezov-Artyakovs" - whose sons do they want to put in these "boxes"? ...

[frog]

Duc about "these" guys can be a lot of things ..... But does it make sense? What will change? (Not to mention the possible .... manifestations))) And, most importantly, in return, what? Change an awl for soap? "Cadres decide everything" Well, or almost everything But where do you get them? Those who can do something, as a rule, climb up weakly, unlike others. And how many of them, something powerful? This, of course, is about the so-called organizers, engineers, there are still a few ... other middle managers - too, although they are pennies ... But with the proletariat and the authorities - it’s a real disaster ....
And as for the topic .... All these figovins are sculpted for "mastering the topic", nothing more. That is, it is precisely those mentioned who are not going to put anyone in particular and are not going to, they just pile on it ......

[vlad106]

Dingo (Victor)


WHO and WHY created this MIRACLE ... What was the goal ... And how much "stuck" ...
Surely the descendants of the "great talent" Tukhlocheffsky.
The main thing is to cut finances ...

[Dedok]

the manic nature of our MO - to adopt models of equipment - for the "last war"

[Bad_gr]

Quote: Dedok

the manic nature of our MO - to adopt models of equipment - for the "last war"

But it was necessary to order equipment for "space wars, taking into account laser weapons, railguns, possible strikes from combat starships from low orbit?

[Ripap]

The performance characteristics of all systems from which it is possible to defeat this technique are known, if not thoroughly, then approximately for sure, because. miracles don't happen. So let's not breed this clowning about "oh, we didn't know."

[Bad_gr]

Quote: RipRap

The performance characteristics of all systems from which it is possible to defeat this technique are known, if not thoroughly, then approximately for sure, because. miracles don't happen. So let's not breed this clowning about "oh, we didn't know."

What are you talking about ?
Unkillable technology does not exist. And what the Airborne Forces need for their tasks, the Airborne Forces know better than you as a sofa expert, they determine (based on their experience), and this is indicated in the terms of reference to the manufacturer. He, to the best of his ability, tries to fit into these requirements.
Or you from your sofa, you know better?

[Ripap]

If they really knew what they needed, they wouldn't demand such nonsense as airborne. And those who are responsible for this have a bone in their heads, they don’t understand anything, they all dream of landing operations with hundreds of Ilov, which are at the height of the landing and calmly drop equipment. And then VeDeWe are forced to fight along with conventional motorized infantry on their shells, or instead receive the usual combined arms BTT

[Bad_gr]

Quote: RipRap

If they really knew what they needed, they wouldn't demand such nonsense as airborne. And those who are responsible for this have a bone in their head, ...............

Some would do well to look at a map of Russia and pay attention to the length of its land border. In the event of a breakthrough of the border, the border guards will be enough for minutes of battle. The landing force, which will fly up to the place of conflict (other options?) Over the territory of Russia, will be dropped over the territory of Russia. and advance in the direction of breaking through the border by the enemy.
What are your alternatives?

[Ripap]

God, when will all this airborne nonsense come out of the empty skulls of our generals?! Airborne equipment should be AIR TRANSPORTABLE, not airborne, this nonsense has never been relevant, there has not been a single case of combat use of airborne equipment over the past 80 years, and never will be. The requirements for the boxes of the Airborne Forces should be as follows: Hold a 30mm NATO autocannon on bops in the forehead, an armor-piercing bullet on board 12,7 NATO, must fit into the IL-76. All! Is it really that hard to understand!?

[APASUS]

Here it is, almost a light tank. One of the drawbacks of this car is armor. Installing a KAZ on such a car should be mandatory

[Grits]

Quote: APASUS

Here it is, almost a light tank. One of the drawbacks of this car is armor. Installing a KAZ on such a car should be mandatory

I agree. Just throw out of it everything that is needed for landing. Because he will NEVER parachute. In that case, why fence this whole fence? The ability to swim is also worth considering, does he need this option? As far as I know, in the entire NWO, not a single piece of equipment that can swim has crossed water obstacles.
If you throw away all these unnecessary options, add protection and KAZ, you will get a wonderful light, maneuverable tank.

[Crisp]

Quote: Dmitry Ivanov_8

She won't do much with cardboard armor. As the events of the NWO showed.

Have you confused anything? The Airborne Forces do not work in a head-on collision with the enemy’s front, but in the rear, where they usually have no armor.

[Ripap]

It's just great, just wonderful, but how will she get to the rear? Finish these fantasies, the level of development of air defense and the availability of MANPADS did not allow such an operation to be carried out even 40 years ago, let alone now. And yes, the REAL use of the Airborne Forces is just head-on like ordinary motorized infantry, and all these landing operations behind enemy lines are simply stupid, unrealizable, and, most importantly, harmful fantasies. And yes, forget the word front already, the fronts remained in WWII, now there are fortified areas and strongholds.

[Dmitry Ivanov_8]

Then why does the Octopus have a high-ballistic tank gun and an advanced guidance system? Enough and BMD-4 with 100 mm.

[Crisp]

Quote: APASUS

Here it is, almost a light tank. One of the drawbacks of this car is armor. Installing a KAZ on such a car should be mandatory

KAZ, which will ruin its own armor, due to its weakness? Will an airplane pull such a car? Irons of the Airborne Forces are disposable things. No one will take them home. Even if they remain intact, they will be abandoned at the landing site. Due to the exhaustion of fuel or ammunition. A good picture - a blue beret runs around gas stations, and is looking for a diesel engine for his warhorse, persuading the enemy to wait until then.

[DenVB]

Quote: Crispy

KAZ, which will ruin its own armor, due to its weakness?

Do you know what KAZ is?

[DenVB]

A light tank / tank destroyer has a right to life. Reservation, of course, must be strengthened, until a weight of 30 tons is reached. Aluminum, landing and water navigation must be forgotten as creatures of a sleeping mind.

[Crisp]

Quote: DenVB

Quote: Crispy

KAZ, which will ruin its own armor, due to its weakness?

Do you know what KAZ is?

Tell me.

[Crisp]

Quote: DenVB

A light tank / tank destroyer has a right to life. Reservation, of course, must be strengthened, until a weight of 30 tons is reached. Aluminum, landing and water navigation must be forgotten as creatures of a sleeping mind.

Transportation by aviation, landing from floating too. Insert the T-90 into the ranks of the advancing armada, and forward.

[decimalegio]

It may not be needed in the Russian army, but there is a demand for light tanks from different countries. Develop it for export. If the MIG developed a single-engine fighter, it would be a success.

[Crisp]

Quote: RipRap

It's just great, just wonderful, but how will she get to the rear? Finish these fantasies, the level of development of air defense and the availability of MANPADS did not allow such an operation to be carried out even 40 years ago, let alone now. And yes, the REAL use of the Airborne Forces is just head-on like ordinary motorized infantry, and all these landing operations behind enemy lines are simply stupid, unrealizable, and, most importantly, harmful fantasies. And yes, forget the word front already, the fronts remained in WWII, now there are fortified areas and strongholds.

But how, in general, does the Airborne Forces get behind enemy lines? What, already so degraded that you don’t even understand IT? Then pour the potatoes on the table and lay them out, where is the commander, and where is the airborne forces. If you get confused, download the film "Chapaev". He explains everything well and clearly. Just right for people like you.

[Ripap]

There is exactly one way how the Airborne Forces can get behind enemy lines. Unexpectedly break through in helicopters at ultra-low altitude in the first hours of the war, which was demonstrated. At the same time, of course, there can be no talk of any armored vehicles. Everything, there are no other ways. If you seriously think that a breakthrough behind enemy lines IL-76 at landing height is a way, then you need to write to a psychiatric institution, and not write comments on VO

[Crisp]

Quote: RipRap

There is exactly one way how the Airborne Forces can get behind enemy lines. Unexpectedly break through in helicopters at ultra-low altitude in the first hours of the war, which was demonstrated. At the same time, of course, there can be no talk of any armored vehicles. Everything, there are no other ways. If you seriously think that a breakthrough behind enemy lines IL-76 at landing height is a way, then you need to write to a psychiatric institution, and not write comments on VO

Of course, this is also possible. But, since there are only idiots around you, designing such a thing, therefore, another scenario is also possible. For boobies. Carpet destruction of air defense systems. And transport workers, carrying a flock of the Airborne Division with the application of this equipment, to hold a large object, until the main forces break through, but already by land.

[Ripap]

Well, I wish you good luck in suppressing air defenses and catching every anti-aircraft gunner with MANPADS. It seems that in your head is exactly the same impenetrable bone as that of the generals from "Uncle Vasya's troops." Here, for example, in 5 months it did not work out to suppress the air defense of Ukraine, it constantly snaps. Such machines are developed not by idiots, but by talented engineers, idiots issue technical specifications.

[Konnick]

to hold a large object

Why hold on?

For boobies. Carpet destruction of air defense systems. And transport workers carrying a division of the Airborne Forces in a flock

I'm from the boobies.
So, as a result of carpet bombing, not only object air defense must be destroyed, but also all air defense systems within a radius of 200-400 km. I wish you success. Did the bottles hit you on the head? The entire existing IL-76 fleet will be destroyed along with the Airborne Division, I don’t know which is more expensive.

[Dingo]

Nikolay, pay no attention. The schoolboy was simply overexcited. Either summer is ending - and soon he will go to school ... Or for another reason ... I don’t know ...
As for me, I don't even want to comment. I just served in the air defense ... Sergeant (former DMB 77-79), 1st class ACS operator. Six months Yelets training, then military unit near Cherepovets. Just arrived in the unit - they left for a training ground in Kazakhstan, for six months in the steppe (Sary-Shagan, "Dal-78"). Winter in the unit, on duty. In the spring - again there, for half a year ("Soyuz-79") The same ones - our r / technical center, 79th Guards ZRB + more pilots - fighters from the air regiment near Tunoshnaya. Worked 3 Yaroslavl Air Defense Corps. They were looking for a "cure" for the "axes" that the "partners" wanted to place in Western Europe ... They found ... both the ZRV and the IA ... For which I, a conscript sergeant, shook my hand, thanks for the service, the Commander-in-Chief of Air Defense , Air Marshal, twice Hero of the Soviet Union Alexander Ivanovich Koldunov ... Directly in position, under a mask net ...
And this one ... Yes, let him gouge on his carpet (or the carpet of his neighbors) with his "fifth point", depicting the "carpet bombing of the air defense forces" in his understanding ...
No, honestly, guys... I haven't laughed like that for a long time... Well, "whatever the child would amuse - if only ....".
Good luck to everyone and a peaceful sky above your head!

[Konnick]

That's how I understood about this dnsantnik.
Good luck)
But the division has not been dropped on rarashutes over the past 30 years ... either the weather .... or the wind ... or there are not enough planes in peacetime. Eh...

[frog]

And maybe it’s good that they didn’t drop it? And then, knowing our .... features, they dropped it there ... with a company .... There were precedents ...
To "resolve the issue" with the miserable Wasp, it took Monsoon to stagger. Otherwise, this issue could not be resolved in the same Sary-Shagan .... Fifteen years before, without any stupidity and human lives .... And not only this one, in fact .... But how It didn't even come to mind then, but now...

[Dingo]

So what were the times like? As Naina Yeltsina said - "the holy 90s" ... I agree with Dmitry - maybe it's good ... Teachings are one thing ... all pretend, albeit "as close as possible" ... War is another ...
Look here. When we and the ZRB left for Sary-Shagan, our "air" was covered by others, they were not left unattended ... Although the guys worked on a "heavy" schedule - for themselves and "for that guy" ... Back then, almost 50 years ago, there was a layered system ... And now ... Not only transport workers will "land" on approach, but also those who will arrive "with a carpet" ... What happened ...

[frog]

No, if we are talking about someone's childhood ..... fantasies with the release of VDD anywhere ..... Personally, I don’t even want to think about it. Not then, not now. It is quite possible that in those years there was some sense in these games during the Great Walk, with the use of this, this, the fifth, the tenth ... But now ..... Normal things must be done ... From only to whom ?? ?? Here you can talk long enough. And for air cars, and for naval games and for much more .... But .... Who needs it? Us? So I'm happy for us
My friend served in the "watchmen of the sky"))) And he spoke for Sary-Shagan)) And he served as an officer .... Private .... Someone there in "pajamas" touched his paw too ....
And yet the imitators of "axes" demolished))
And now .... And now they won’t even be able to take off, most likely ....

[Dingo]

I think this friend "lied" to you ... And not a little, but "a lot" ... Especially about the "demolition of imitators" ... How did he "demolish" them, "private in an officer's position"? Ladle? Sorry, but this is from the realm of fantasy. Absolute ignorance of the atmosphere and features ...
... there you could instantly make a career - or instantly lose everything ... The requirements were so tough.

[frog]

Let's just say, he served a little later than the years you described, everything was not so curly there. I can be wrong, from memory, but this was called the head of the SRC. I might have doubted, but I have known him for a long time, and I also know that for a year conscripts sat (albeit unofficially) in officer and "foreman" positions .... Esssno, it was not everywhere and not always, but it happened...

[Dingo]

Perhaps ... I just served in the Soviet army, I judge the Russian army by the service of my son, in the early 2000s ... Or my nephew - Colonel ... Well, his brother is an OMON colonel and my second nephew ... This is different.
By the way, he recently returned with his guys THERE... He does not say much, but also what he said....
That's the strange thing about life. He has both "Chechen" ones over his shoulder - and TAM was in "team" with the "Kadyrovites" ... They covered each other in the "cleansing operations" ... They fought back together - when the tanks came at them ... They tried to break through twice - our turntables burned them ... Crews - 2 people each ... Cadets ...
Eh ...

[frog]

Life is a funny thing
Simply, unlike many / some)), I don’t absolutize my experience and my vision)) Some, in the same Union, saw a Kalashmat a couple of times for service (although they didn’t serve quite in the construction battalion), others - and without combat a couple of times a week, patricks burned at the shooting ranges ....
The same SA (as well as other parts of the Armed Forces) were very diverse. There was a series of articles by a pilot here, there are such ..... high-frequency acoustic vibrations were in the comments, sho oh-vey)) .....
And to the deceased (I'm talking about the Soviet of Deputies)) there were a lot of questions ... Now, personally, I simply have no questions
And for the strangeness of life and more .... Some representatives of the "fraternal peoples" in the "completely built" wanted me a little ... toyvo ... Others (CHSH, the same peoples) saved, knowing that they would be very bo-bo if we get caught.....
Some - they traded everything, including people, despite shoulder straps, others - they risked them (shoulder straps) in order to remain people ....

[Dingo]

I forgot ... This abbreviation, "SRTs", is unfamiliar to me ... in the RTV it has its own, in the ZRV it is different ... But the ZRV does not work without connection with the RTV ... they have a raster of 1.5 degrees ... Fumbling them in the sky - what a needle on the wall... So...

[frog]

EMNIP, target reconnaissance station .... Or something like that ....

[Dingo]

It's clear. It seems that this is exactly according to the "imitation" ... Also called "alert" (when you do not see the real target on the screen, but it ... how to say it more precisely ... a conditional image, or something ...) This is how we worked on duty, when the SR-71 wandered along our borders ... They didn’t really see him, others saw and led him, but they took the mark on the notification ... Training, no more ... No, we had another ... Real target (KR with a speed in the MAX region or a little more - indirectly, along the screen, with a height of 50-70 m, with enveloping the terrain), a real interceptor (1.5 MAX or a little more, with a height of 400-500 m), guidance in "rear hemisphere" (catching up) ... or in the "front" (oncoming) ...
At the slightest mistake, "smear" the pilot across the steppe at such a speed and height - like two fingers on the asphalt ...
Okay, I don't want to talk about it. Was it? - Was it ... Did you find a "cure"? Found. All is well, life goes on...

[ycuce234-san]

Quote: Dingo

Even on the approach, not only transport workers will "land", but also those who will arrive "with a carpet" ... Which is what happened ...

The situation then and now differs economically in that it is now becoming possible to produce large-scale production of loitering ammunition - quite accurate and gradually approaching the cost of an artillery shell, aerial bomb, nurs, an expensive and complex, but all the same projectile and not a manned aircraft. Well, new approaches to the use of such robots in the form of network-centric wars and the maximum delegation of control to computers.
Therefore, the old air defense, built according to old patterns, is vulnerable to such new technologies - because it is almost impossible for an industrialized country to produce a series of 100 UAVs quickly, easily and put in reserve warehouses, but a similar number of elements of the old air defense (except for the simplest ammunition) is almost impossible.
The question of course about the need for landings in the rear remained, but with air defense the situation has changed.

[Dingo]

Excuse me, but where, in what warehouse did we have as many as 100 UAVs "lying around" idle? Do not tell me?
Damn, how schoolchildren got it! One is all worn with a carpet ... It would be fine with his own - he also grabbed the neighbor's ...
The second hides 100 UAVs under the sofa ....
Take it easy, huh? Autumn exacerbation by September 1, "the victims of the exam"?
And it happened ... Yes, it’s just that the “Sumers” multiplied by 0 almost all of our aviation, even with the remnants of their air defense, left over from the Union ...

[shoemaker]

Dear Victor, could you comment on the work of the air defense forces in Iraq in 1991 and in Serbia in 1999.

[Dingo]

No, Vladimir, sorry. I have already said above that I write only about what I myself took part in. Neither there nor there I was (and could not be by definition) and, accordingly, I can not comment on what I do not know in detail ... thoroughly ... Once again - sorry.

[Crisp]

Quote: RipRap

Well, I wish you good luck in suppressing air defenses and catching every anti-aircraft gunner with MANPADS. It seems that in your head is exactly the same impenetrable bone as that of the generals from "Uncle Vasya's troops." Here, for example, in 5 months it did not work out to suppress the air defense of Ukraine, it constantly snaps. Such machines are developed not by idiots, but by talented engineers, idiots issue technical specifications.

If you do not understand the specific term - "carpet", then you need to force you to learn this term by knocking out carpets in neighbors' houses. Everyone has. Don't miss anyone.

[Dedok]

the manic nature of our MO is that it adamantly does not want to recognize the "common truths" that have developed during the NWO
but pushes through his vision of the military conflict: but at the same time, something is not visible on the front line of the representatives of this Defense Ministry, who are promoting their ideas live

[AML]

Quote: Victor_B

Only aluminum bulletproof / anti-fragmentation armor is embarrassing ...

So it is written that the octopus is for the Airborne Forces, which implies its landing, hence the aluminum armor.