Khodakovsky spoke about the difference between the work of Russian and Ukrainian artillery at the front

The situation on the front line during the special military operation of the Russian armed forces in Ukraine is largely determined by the nature of the work of the artillery of the parties to the conflict. Alexander Khodakovsky, a military leader of the Donetsk People's Republic and a military expert, writes about this in his Telegram channel.

As Khodakovsky notes, in two days of fighting in rough terrain, his unit lost 5 people killed and 7 people wounded. In terms of irretrievable losses, the commander notes, this is more than three months of fighting in Mariupol. The most important thing that Khodakovsky pays attention to is that all the losses were from artillery fire, not a single one was killed or wounded from small arms fire.

The artillery of the advancing units, Khodakovsky emphasizes, is short-range and is located in the zone of destruction of enemy artillery pieces. He draws attention to the high speed of the enemy's reaction to artillery shelling from the Russian or allied side - 4-6 shots of the allied artillery, followed immediately by a return shelling from the Ukrainian side.

Such prompt response of Ukrainian artillery testifies to the effective work of artillery reconnaissance. More long-range artillery is located outside the enemy's kill zone, but it is subordinate to the senior commander. To attract her, it takes from 30 minutes to 4 hours. Ukrainian artillery reacts within minutes.

The main problem Khodakovsky calls the features of the structure of the army organization and thinking. The Ukrainian army uses the approach of the armies of the NATO countries. This approach allows any sergeant to direct the resource that can bring the successful completion of the task at hand. The Russian (and allied militia) system implies a whole chain of approvals, the decision is made by the senior commander.

In addition, the plans of a senior commander may not correspond to the real situation at the front, or rather, in his particular sector, where there is a need for certain resources. The enemy, meanwhile, continues to fire on the advancing troops. As a result, offensive plans are frustrated, Russian and allied military personnel are dying.

From what Khodakovsky wrote, the conclusion suggests itself: in order to increase the effectiveness of actions and the promptness of response, it is necessary to change the very principle of decision-making, which is inevitably associated with changes in the entire model of army organization in the field.

Comments

[seregatara1969]

Rapid interaction of military branches is very important! You need to learn even from the enemy!

[barclay]

Only for some reason they guessed about it there, but we don’t.
Some crap. At first glance, these are elementary things that for some reason have not yet been taken into account by our military academies.

[Chronos]

Quote: barclay

Only for some reason they guessed about it there, but we don’t.
Some crap. At first glance, these are elementary things that for some reason have not yet been taken into account by our military academies.

This is the fault of our entire system of government. It is hard for military and not only commanders to accept that some important decision is made "from below", bypassing them. Everyone wants to keep everything under their ass so that no one can sneeze without permission. And it's not just in the military.

[barclay]

Maybe I'll say sedition now. You can punish me. But this is not the first time this has happened in our history. In 1941, the interaction with artillery and aviation was learned from the Germans. Today, apparently, we need to learn this from NATO. Don't they have brains?
But we always dispute where progress comes from...

[Beloemigrant]

so-remenno progress idet from Kitaja

[hagen]

Quote: Chronos

It is hard for military and not only commanders to accept that some important decision is made "from below", bypassing them

Artillery, as a rule, works intensively during the battle. And this work should be led by one commander, and not all sergeants who assessed their position as requiring assistance in the amount of a high-capacity artillery battalion. The senior commander must determine the priorities for hitting targets, because artillery units can have more than a dozen of them. And often it is necessary to beat them with a certain outfit of forces with concentrated fire. And in order to spend the minimum time to pass the request to its execution, before the battle, with the help of specific orders and orders, interaction with attached and supporting forces is set up. The speed of response to a request may depend both on the availability of these forces and on the availability of requests from other units. I don’t want to comment on Khodakovsky, but I know from my own experience that for me my application is the best, and there are not one or two such commanders, and everyone urgently needs a lot. And of course, each of these commanders would like a personal division or regiment to work in his interests. But this rarely happens. And if every infantry sergeant commands artillery, then instead of a powerful fist, we will have a splayed five. I would not do this, from a raid on a gallop, to try to cheat the existing system of interaction between military branches in battle, we got it with blood and polished it. Khodakovsky, perhaps a good battalion commander, has the right to his opinion, but there are hundreds of such battalion commanders. And not enough for all artillery regiments. And to look for the vices of the Army from the couch is not a thankful and not the smartest thing. I think we need to generate our own thoughts about the proper, especially critical ones, based on the results of a comprehensive assessment and on the spot.

[Vladimir 290]

Dear Hagen, I fully agree with you, and all information should be sent to the appropriate headquarters that control the battle and assess the current situation as a whole as soon as possible. The necessary decisions must be made as quickly as possible. With all due respect, the battalion commander owns the situation only in his area, which is most important to him and is ready to use even a strategic bomber with cruise missiles to destroy enemy targets, and he cannot be blamed for this.

[zloybond]

Khodakovsky does not look for the vices of the Army from the couch. He thinks he is looking for ways to solve problems and hints at an option.
It is not for nothing that in a musical institution the military leadership of the Armed Forces is pushed in a certain direction after setting tasks - then on their own. Don't interfere.

[hagen]

Quote: zloybond

Khodakovsky does not look for the vices of the Army from the couch.

If you read the conversation, you would understand that the question of vices was touched by the forum member, to whom my answer was sent. It can be useful to be attentive and delve into the essence ... I explain, I have no questions for Khodakovsky. A person fights, commands a battalion, has his own point of view (of the battalion level). He deserves all respect as an active patriot of his Motherland... Keep your crosswords about music to yourself. Don't jump into the conversation if you don't get the point.

[zloybond]

I agree with Khodakovsky - if each belly does not measure the life of a soldier, the task assigned to him and brings to the fore the level of his shoulder straps and his own significance and unattainability, then the task assigned to the assault unit is broken including this belly.

[hagen]

Quote: zloybond

if each belly does not measure the life of a soldier, the task assigned to him

You obviously consider yourself better than those officers who risk their lives in the NWO and whom you so contemptuously called "belly". Something tells me that you .... are wrong.

[zloybond]

I, as an officer, consider that nachart ...... who decided to watch the banderlogs shoot a group returning from work from artillery, instead of supporting it with fire and suppressing the enemy, allowing the group to leave alive. And now we have no losses but we bury.

[svoroponov]

You know , Khodakovsky evaluates the actions of the Ukrainians correctly . But what prevents him from achieving the assignment of artillery divisions to his part. Then he will directly manage them on his site without wasting time for coordination. In addition, the gunners of long-range artillery systems take time to check where to hit. They have their own intelligence, often associated with counter-battery radar. And then they can, with the filing of the enemy, and hit their own. Ukrainians confirm this - they often hit their own people, because they don’t check what and how - a request was received and hit, but who made this request and they don’t double-check.

[Sedoy]

you get the point, my friend... :)
why do they have a sergeant's application completed after 4-6 shots at them, and it takes us hours and this, as they say in mo, with "complete superiority", both in quantity and in the quality of our artillery in front of dill ...
what is the meaning of such superiority if you don’t get artu ...
in your opinion, it turns out that our artillery has so much work that the hillock only does what determines the main goals ...
and dill arta sleeps all day and thinks out of anguish "if only some sergeant called and asked to shoot at least somewhere" ...

[hagen]

Quote: Sedoy

and dill arta sleeps all day and thinks out of anguish "if only some sergeant called and asked to shoot at least somewhere" ...

If Khodakovsky's remarks had reflected not one-time, but widespread events, then we would have lost artillery in the first month of the NMD. And we, as the same Khodakovsky tells us, have the initiative with the numerical superiority of the Armed Forces of Ukraine, as they say on TV. And in general, discussing the opinion of one, albeit a well-deserved, battalion commander without opposing him from the same boss, whose red tape he complains about, is not correct, one-sided. At one time, after major operations on the fronts in the KA / SA, it was a tradition to hold military-scientific conferences, during which the experience gained was discussed, novels were born in the BUPs and other instructions and instructions. I think that after the operation, the results will also be summed up in terms of analyzing the experience gained in all areas.

[Sedoy]

after the operation, the results will also be summed up in terms of analyzing the experience gained in all areas.

but how, of course, will be ... and the results and analysis and cal ...
everything is like after Afghanistan and the Caucasus ...
I just have to wait until after the surgery...
which is going according to a plan, the end of which is not known even in the Kremlin...

[hagen]

Quote: Sedoy

I just have to wait until after the surgery...

Personally, I have no doubts about the success of the operation. It is carried out almost within the framework of peacetime staff, taking into account the preservation of an irreducible supply of mobilization human and material resources. So your sarcasm about feces is not appropriate here. Especially since you can't offer anything else. And whining about the fact that even the Kremlin does not know the plan is the lot of those who hang out next to the oncoming caravan, but do not influence it. You already decide who you are and with whom you are .... I would not hope for such people in 1941 near Moscow or in 1942 near Stalingrad.

[Sedoy]

I would not hope for such in 1941 near Moscow or in 1942 near Stalingrad.

like you and brought to the defeat of the 41st ...
the same armchairs sit in political generals ...
it’s already clear to the horse that this is the fog of war and nothing more ...
in all media "Russian Foreign Ministry urged Washington to force Zelensky to resume negotiations with Russia"
so who's whining here... :)
but the ultras-cretinos-patriotas are unaware ...
the next four columns with equipment passed these days to ukrostan and have already reached the east - not a single one, not like an air strike, not even reports in the official media ...

[hagen]

Quote: Sedoy

like you and brought to the defeat of the 41st ...

No substantiation of the opinion, no arguments, no actual thoughts. Even the discussion is not able to support.

[Sedoy]

not able to support the discussion

deserve a discussion... :)
waste time on you - do not flatter yourself ...
like you, enough replicas ...

[Alexey Lantukh]

I heard a lot about the work of artillerymen, as a former topographer of the missile forces and artillery. I observed and discussed with them the work of artillery computers, which are sitting next to the battalion commander. Familiar with the work of artillery reconnaissance. In general, more or less large-caliber artillery has different tasks, and this makes the battery work different. It is one thing to suppress specific fortified enemy firing points during an infantry offensive, when an artillery reconnaissance officer or NP corrects the fire of a battery, it is another to conduct a counter-battery fight with an enemy battery in his rear. And a simple sergeant will not help here directly if he is not equipped with special equipment. After all, for shooting, you need to specifically indicate the coordinates for the defeat, as well as correctly correct the fire if it is the front line. I doubt very much that our simple ones, if they are platoon commanders, sergeants, maybe, with rare exceptions, understand maps. Lieutenants, yes - they studied at schools. Obviously, American sergeants are what we have a platoon commander, i.e. lieutenant.

[cat Rusich]

Quote: Alexey Lantukh

. Obviously, American sergeants are what we have a platoon commander, i.e. lieutenant.

In the us army
Sergeant First Class (E-7) - senior private in a platoon. The main assistant and adviser to the platoon commander.
In the absence of a "second lieutenant" (platoon leader), he commands a platoon.
In the United States, a platoon leader officer may have less than three years of service, while a platoon sergeant is already serving. 7 to 15 years...
Here's a "sergeant" can independently assess the situation at the front and call artillery or aviation.

[barbos]

Quote: Alexey Lantukh

I observed and discussed with them the work of artillery computers, which are sitting next to the battalion commander.

It is high time to replace these loafers with computers. Works much faster and more accurately. Send them themselves under the leadership of a sergeant, so that they understand under what conditions it is necessary to transmit the coordinates.

Quote: Alexey Lantukh

In general, more or less large-caliber artillery has different tasks

Actually, there is only one task. And from the accuracy and speed of its implementation, the life of that sergeant and his platoon is envious.

Quote: Alexey Lantukh

After all, for shooting, you need to specifically indicate the coordinates for the defeat, as well as correctly correct the fire if it is the front line.

What are you talking about? How interesting. And what do we need for this? Companies of soldiers with scores and astrolabes for more accurate and faster calculation of coordinates? During the fire contact with the enemy, the sergeant has no more worries, except for the transmission of the exact coordinates of the enemy's target. I would live there, and not calculate the seconds of latitude and longitude, so that the artillery would deign to support with fire.

[hagen]

Quote from barbos

Actually, there is only one task.

It only looks like this from the couch... In fact, there are many more possibilities for tasks. For example, an urgent baby from reconnaissance in the division's sector about a higher priority target. And then the chief enters the work, determining the sequence of tasks. And it won't be a sergeant...

Quote from barbos

And what do we need for this?

Some of the discussers, probably, have knowledge in the amount of at least "an artillery sergeant's textbook."

[svoroponov]

The western sergeant has a tablet with a map of the area, and is connected to GPS satellites.
If necessary, he simply indicates these coordinates in the area with coordinates, and this, through a tablet or through a radio station, goes to the support headquarters of this unit and further, or attached artillery or attached aviation, then father-in-law like ours. But if the Marine Corps is working, then there is both artillery and aviation, there a sergeant can directly request support. The Ukrainians have something similar now, the Americans simply made a semblance of their Corps out of the Ukrainian troops.
If a counter-battery station is operating, then it is directly connected with the artillery allocated and intended for these purposes. Since our artillery is very effective, it is obvious that the Ukrainians have ligaments working against it - a station - a battery. It has already been noted that after the defeat of such a station, the enemy’s counter-battery capabilities drop sharply.

[Alexey Lantukh]

Well, let's put it this way: I served as an artillery topographer almost 50 years ago. At that time, topographers and calculators counted on tablets (pieces of lined plastic), arithmometers and even abacus, i.e. practically by hand. However, those cannons in the LPR and DPR with panoramas and artillery compass remained the same. It is clear that they began to count on electronic tablets. As for latitude and longitude, these indicators are not used in the calculations. Well, you yourself said that the sergeant has no time to count. Well, then who should correct the artillery fire. This is usually done by trained artillery reconnaissance officers.

[flicker]

Khodakovsky, perhaps a good battalion commander

Which often admits that he was wrong.

[hagen]

Quote: flicker

Which often admits that he was wrong.

Oriented immediately. In general, even if you are recognized by TV news anchors, you should not "bronze" at all and consider yourself an unsurpassed master who has the right to criticize your colleagues in the database in the media. There are claims to the "neighbor", criticize (constructively) at a working meeting or tête-à-tête, but not in a TV journalist and not in a blog on the Internet. No need to offend those with whom you are at war. They may also need help. Offended by you may not hurry .... In this case, I do not really believe in the sincerity of admitting a mistake.

[flicker]

criticize (constructively) at a workshop or tête-à-tête

That's right: working moments are in working order and discuss (especially everyone knows him). And then he starts to appeal in social networks. The question is to whom and for what purpose?

[hagen]

Quote: flicker

The question is to whom and for what purpose?

This is not with a goal, it is from insufficient foresight and an excess of ambition.

[Alexandre]

That is, Khodakovsky argues from the couch. And "they" know better there?

[hagen]

Quote from Alexandre

That is, Khodakovsky argues from the couch. And "they" know better there?

You read the entire conversation, and unnecessary questions will disappear by themselves.

[Shark Lover]

As far as I know, I saw, participated, with each company an artillery spotter leaves, who, before advancing, in battle, maps possible targets, target number 1, etc. The spotter gives data to the battery and the gunners record the data, point the guns at these targets, record the data. The platoon commander puts the same data on the map, so that in case something happens, he can clearly indicate which target to hit, the company commander, the company commander is already broadcasting to the spotter (if he left, then to the battery himself) From this data, a correction is already underway, to the left, to the right, further, nearer. The platoon commander corrects on the fingers, the spotter is already translating into the language of guns. At least 10 targets can be assigned in the area of ​​​​your operations, it is rare when a company goes far from the foreground. When the popados happens suddenly, there is nothing to blame on the artillery, the enemy is also not a bastard, here already in the course of the play. Arta can be redirected, change positions, but the data is still there, there are no questions for them, but for those who removed the artu from you, left you without cover, thought that the neighbor was more important.

[hagen]

Quote: Shark Lover

an artillery spotter leaves with each company

This is the case when, according to the plan of interaction, an artillery battery is defined to support a specific unit. Within a regiment/brigade, company and battalion level officers know their colleagues in neighboring units and, as a rule, know the sergeants who usually replace them and foremen. When these sergeants in the process of life and combat training apply for assistance in the needs of their units, then I, as a full-time company commander, have no questions about how and by whom he is authorized to these requests. Therefore, in our army, it is quite possible that an infantry sergeant in the rank of XCA can turn to an artillery battery for help, if this is determined by the plan. And if this is not in the plan, then there is a battalion headquarters designed to solve such problems. Nevertheless, I believe that with time the Constellation will be "finished ...." and the interaction will not require any calls or radio calls. Information will be transmitted instantly from tablet to tablet via the military Internet. Although manual skills with a paper map and a walkie-talkie will also need to be trained.

[Shark Lover]

Well, yes, because regimental / brigade artillery (a division is 18 D-30 guns and MLRS) and work mainly for "their" units. They can, of course, redirect, but this is the work of the regimental commander / brigade, not to leave your own naked. Yes, if a large caliber, then you have to sweat. On the tablet, I heard about the constellation, my opinion (delitant). It is better to say in the words of the hero of the film The order to liquidate ....... There is nothing better than a reliable Stechkin. I myself saw how the officer of the battery, the starley, pointed and from the second shot put it where it was necessary. The time-how long the radio wave went to the battery control and how much the soldier ran to the gun, about 5 minutes in general, after the order had already arrived. I mean, on the scale of a battalion, maybe you don’t need to be smart. Interaction with your art and support will be great. It's no secret that a soldier from the infantry often drinks with a soldier from artillery in the supply rooms, they talk about aunts and support Seryoga, Andryukha will be doubly motivated.)))))))

[Lionnvrsk]

This approach allows any sergeant guide that resource

At Khodakovsky's inquire!

[Alexander Vanichev]

Probably also because in the description of the awarding of the colonel with the hero of the Russian Federation they write ... his unit captured the settlement. Although the hero must be given for a personal feat.

[Ratmir_Ryazan]

Only for some reason they guessed about it there, but we don’t.
Some crap. At first glance, these are elementary things that for some reason have not yet been taken into account by our military academies.

Maybe because they fight more often and they have more money for various reforms and new weapons systems, so they pulled ahead, and we ossified and lagged behind in many issues, from KAZ for tanks and attack UAVs to artillery and AWACS aircraft.

We have to catch up on the backlog.

[barclay]

I agree. But the sign of a great civilized power, as we position ourselves, is not only to catch up, but also to work ahead of the curve.

[Ratmir_Ryazan]

So they also do not stand still, while they have more experience and resources.

We are neither physically nor technically able to be ahead everywhere.

Nuclear weapons allow us to maintain parity for the time being and give us time to close the gap, here we are at the level, but otherwise we are lagging behind everywhere both in quality and in quantity.

We have a lot of problems, and probably the main one is window dressing and eyewash, and now all the shortcomings are coming out, you can’t hide anything, it’s only a pity that we are paying for this with the lives of our soldiers.

Look, now the video is on YouTube, there the DZ dill on the captured T-80 BVM was dismantled on the tower, and there are pieces of rubber instead of plastid, and where the blocks are empty in general - this is how we prepared for the SVO, in words everything is ready, but in fact it’s not at all so.

[barclay]

Quote: Ratmir_Ryazan

they have more experience and resources.

We just have more resources. There is also enough experience. Lacks intelligence and responsibility.

Quote: Ratmir_Ryazan

We have a lot of problems and probably the main one is window dressing and eyewash

I agree here. Window dressing and "ceremonial reports" - this is our everything. After all, it’s like with us, if you don’t know how to report to the authorities what they want to hear, then the “system” will chew you up and spit you out.

Quote: Ratmir_Ryazan

pieces of rubber instead of plastid, and where the blocks are empty in general - that's how

And this is the result of the usual gouging of commanders in the field, and eyewash by the inspectors. Fake checks are the disease of our army. Those who check past the objects of verification go directly to restaurants and baths, and where they leave with envelopes of money. And as a result, rubber remains in the DZ of the tank instead of explosives.

[Alexey Lantukh]

It is possible that the fish was jammed, and then replaced with rubber.

[Ratmir_Ryazan]

We just have more resources.

It's a delusion.

Only in the USA oil is extracted by 20% more than in Russia, almost the same amount of gas is produced, they have many times more coal than in Russia, they have all the metals, there are a lot of hydroelectric power stations and nuclear power plants, while the climate is milder, heating costs in winter are less .

In general, the economies and industry of the West are much better developed than ours.

Add here the resources of Europe and Australia.

They have many times more and this is a fact that must be reckoned with.

We cannot get ahead of them, we would have to maintain parity and we cannot do without nuclear weapons alone, because in conflicts of small and medium intensity we have to use conventional weapons.

[alexey sidykin]

Well, well ... it's about that T-80 that we lost at the very beginning, and then the Armed Forces of Ukraine fought on it for some time ..? We know about such a video and a vidosik ... what did dill say there, ask them, not us.

[JD1979]

They had no idea about it, it was, so to speak... a conscious decision. There are smart people there too, and one of them named Boyd formulated his OODA principle. Using which they analyzed banal situations there (well, for example, the same call for artillery support) and the hell they threw out all sorts of gaskets with shoulder straps that increased the response time. Efficiency, nothing more. And here ... I doubt that they even thought about the experience of the enemy, what to take with the pendos - they are, as Zadornov said, stupid. Only the latter have long proceeded from the fact that war is a job for which both modern tools and modern instructions are important)) someone has to do something. And our people perform feats on the front line, because someone at the top is acting according to the charter of the king of peas.

[DrtFd]

elementary things that each sergeant manages regimental or divisional artillery?
especially a sergeant from the DPR who sucked biba for 5 months and could not take Avdiivka, which is 5 km from Donetsk and is now being taken by the Ru army?

whining Donetsk can be divided into three

secondly, I saw a bunch of messages from ukrov how they complained that a dozen Russians fly in response to one shot from their artillery. and not once or twice, but I saw such messages constantly in dill publics

thirdly, right now, NATO would have something to learn there, they are noble warriors, well

[barbos]

Quote: Drt Fd

elementary things that each sergeant manages regimental or divisional artillery?

Exactly. Each, as you write, sergeant, when he goes into battle with his platoon, must be sure that in which case he will be supported by artillery. And when his platoon begins to mow down a sniper or a machine gun crew, he must be sure that the artillery will provide support here and now. Then, when they deign or deign to condescend to attention to this request, nothing will remain of that same sergeant and his platoon. Simply because the Ukrainian artillery is more agile.

Quote: Drt Fd

thirdly, right now, NATO would have something to learn there

Learn at least the fact that a miserable sergeant with his platoon is, first of all, people with their loved ones and relatives.

[stankow]

A sergeant in every army goes into battle relying on battalion artillery - mortar battery. For a sniper or a machine gun - that's it. But only his battalion commander can get through to the regimental and divisional artillery. If the situation allows - support with a twinkle, why not.

[Alekseev]

There they guessed, but here they didn’t guess ....
Everything has long been guessed.
Not sergeants, that in NATO, that we organize the interaction of infantry and artillery. The battalion is given a battery, a division and a battalion commander manages (sets tasks) to defeat artillery fire.
And in order for the dill batteries to be suppressed quickly, there is the chief of artillery, who must organize target designation from the KNP of the infantry immediately to the firing howitzers or MLRS. Including long-range, for counter-battery combat.
If this is not done, then there are reasons. Either there is a problem with trained personnel, or there is little ammunition and guns, or communications are weak, or officials are not in place.

[Romario_Argo]

the difference between Ukrainian and Russian art,
this is the caliber and number of barrels and projectiles fired
APU - 122-mm and 152-mm up to 1000 shells per day
RF, LDNR - 122, 152, 203, 240 mm up to 40 shells per day

[Trapp1st]

APU - 122-mm and 152-mm up to 1000 shells per day
RF, LDNR - 122, 152, 203, 240 mm up to 40 shells per day

What conclusion can be drawn from the words of Alexander Sergeevich, after 4 hours you can fire at least +100500 shells, the enemy artillery will be in a different position.

[Romario_Argo]

counter-battery fight is not 4 hours - it's 1.5 minutes - and the 152nd arrive
and if in the region of 3 km there is our UAV, then the illumination will be per minute for 4-6 shells

[Trapp1st]

More long-range artillery is located outside the enemy's kill zone, but it is subordinate to the senior commander. To attract her, it takes from 30 minutes to 4 hours. Ukrainian artillery reacts within minutes.

[Romario_Argo]

that's why we use Brigade tactical groups BrTG
to have artillery: 152 mm, 203 mm, mortars 220 mm and 240 mm
the Armed Forces of Ukraine have only battalion BTGs

[Trapp1st]

that's why we use Brigade tactical groups BrTG
to have artillery: 152 mm, 203 mm, mortars 220 mm and 240 mm

Apparently they don’t practice BrTG enough, for some reason ... Maybe it’s corny that they don’t have enough funds, I don’t know, maybe because the NVO is still not fighting gangs that don’t have artillery, but the bandits have many times less strength, maybe because BrTG this is still not about counter-battery work, but more for support ... Here, after all, the army against the army, and the BrTG is about the Chechen one.

[Romario_Argo]

after all, an army against an army

I would say that this is beating a baby
battalions of the Armed Forces of Ukraine, if there are 3 companies, this is very good
if there are 60-80 people in the company - this is normal - the stars just aligned
those. BTG APU is 200 people - but without equipment - just keep N.P.

[Trapp1st]

I would say that this is beating a baby

Wow, you can say whatever you want. (in politically correct terms)

[Foul skeptic]

I would say that this is beating a baby
battalions of the Armed Forces of Ukraine, if there are 3 companies, this is very good
if there are 60-80 people in the company - this is normal - the stars just aligned
those. BTG APU is 200 people - but without equipment - just keep N.P.

Don't you write texts for Konashenkov?

[runway-1]

Such with him in the same "system" ...

[hagen]

Quote: Romario_Argo

I would say that this is beating a baby

Are you writing this from a trench near Donetsk? I don't think they will agree with you.

[JagerRock]

Yeah. Kyiv in 3 more days

[stankow]

Counter-battery combat is 360 shells per battery, 5-6 guns, 20 minutes of work. And 4-6 BT shells hit 2 targets. Meanwhile, in the battery under fire, there are up to 40 targets worth hitting - guns, tractors, dugouts, command posts, cellars. So the OP is covered as an areal is intact, there is no time to show off the backlight. In addition, a drone that can highlight - one per regiment, at best.

[JagerRock]

Can you go help them?

[stankow]

What's wrong if this "other position" is a kilometer further from the front. What we see :)

[Pereira]

But the result is the same

[Romario_Argo]

But the result is the same

disagree,
The Armed Forces of Ukraine spend up to 1000 shells per day only in cities, per 1000 km of the front
in Donetsk it is stable 200-300, in other settlements. less
because it is not possible to suppress our firing positions with such an outfit

[iouris]

Quote: Romario_Argo

it is not possible to suppress our firing positions with such an outfit

The reverse is also true. Unfortunately.

[Pereira]

But the destruction of warehouses and refineries is possible. The number of destroyed has already become equal.

[max702]

And then what kind of losses does Khodakovsky squeal about? Lying go scoundrel?

[barclay]

Is it better to focus on quality rather than quantity?

[Roman Maksimov]

Don't forget rocket artillery: 122,220,300

[wladimirjankov]

yes, at least 200000 shells fired over empty fields will not be of any use. You need to shoot on time and accurately. To do this, we need modern mobile counter-battery radars assigned to our specific artillery batteries .. As well as electronic warfare equipment for combating enemy counter-battery radars and UAVs. We don't seem to have enough of either. Yes, and there seem to be many problems with the organization of interaction between units. This has always been a common thing for the Russian army. We are never ready for modern warfare. Only by shedding our blood do we begin to learn and change something.

[stankow]

wkadimirjankov They posted a full set of running tales. And none of them are true

[MMX]

There is a competition between quantity and quality. While the quality obviously wins, i.e. more effective.

[Foul skeptic]

The artillery of the advancing units, Khodakovsky emphasizes, is short-range and is located in the zone of destruction of enemy artillery pieces.

But what about yesterday's article with the opinion of Khodarenko?

According to our gunners, Polish self-propelled guns only on paper turned out to be long-range guns. With a declared firing range of 30 kilometers with conventional Crab shells are used from distances half that - 15, at best, 17 kilometers.

Forget and forgive?

[Trapp1st]

Forget and forgive?

No, just read the article carefully. It is not about means, but about tactics and org. structure.

[Foul skeptic]

It is not about means, but about tactics and org. structure.

I highlighted specific text from the article. Is it about means or organizational structure?

[Foul skeptic]

Yesterday he talked about performance characteristics, today about tactics and structure.

Let's start with the fact that Khodarenok and Khodakovsky are two different people.
Well, I repeat - I highlighted the specific text from the article. Is it about means or organizational structure?

[Trapp1st]

Thanks for the correction. But if you do not see the difference between an article about performance characteristics and org. structure, I do not see the point of discussing something.

[Foul skeptic]

Thanks for the amendment.

Please

But if you do not see the difference between an article about performance characteristics and org. structure,

It is you who do not see (or pretend that you do not see) that the passage from the article that I commented on affects the performance characteristics, and not the organizational structure. Actually, rather the second, since you repeatedly evaded the answer - I highlighted the specific text from the article. Is it about means or organizational structure?

[stankow]

Correctly. The weapon is never used at maximum range. On the speedometer of the car, 200, 220, 240 km / h are painted. Do they eat at that speed?

[svp67]

This approach allows any sergeant to direct the resource that can bring the successful completion of the task at hand.

No need to idealize. This happens only when the actions of this "sergeant" fit into the overall plan, otherwise it will simply be a dispersion of forces and means.
And the fact that we need to drastically reduce the response time of the same artillery or aviation has long been known. It's time to keep a group of attack aircraft in the area, for emergency calls, during an offensive, so that they would "spin and wait", but at the first request they would go to the desired area.
How many these issues have been worked out in the exercises, but until all the armed forces are penetrated by a single system of combat control, nothing will budge.

[Konnick]

occurs only when the actions of this "sergeant" fit into the overall plan,

Fit in. The example of Avdiivka and Marinka with their artillery defenses allows stopping the attacks of the NM DPR in a minute. Those. making a decision directly behind the gunner. The defense was built according to NATO charters.

[S. Viktorovich]

Where is the ESU TK?

[Eug]

You will be answered "air duty" - very expensive. Again - who has the right to give an order for the use of this link and how long will it take before such an order is given?

[Asad]

It’s hard for us to introduce new things, but someone has to give a “magic” pendel. And we have one, and Shoigu is his friend, but you can’t give pendels to friends.

[Leshak]

With the sluggishness of the army, something needs to be solved and as quickly as possible. In modern warfare, decision time matters a lot. And given the small number of UAVs and weak space intelligence, decision-making time becomes almost the main success factor.

[iouris]

Fight not by numbers, but by technological superiority. Technological superiority (partly) eliminates even the factor of professionalism.

[Konnick]

Fight not by numbers, but by technological superiority. Technological superiority (partly) eliminates even the factor of professionalism.

Our human factor cannot be broken by the latest weapons. Karabakh showed the capabilities of the UAV. Our generals began to say that the Armenians had bad calculations
SAM

[iouris]

The "human factor" is never deserted.
In general, the "human factor" is the inevitable errors associated with the functioning of complex systems, which are due to the presence of a person (human operator) in the control loop.
Most likely, you meant the moral-psychological (moral-political) or spiritual factor.

[zombirusrev]

This is NATO artillery ..

[Pereira]

The age-old Russian problem - the independence of the grass-roots level in decision-making is not provided. Every little thing needs to be approved.
Dragomirov wrote about this at the end of the 19th century, citing the Prussian army of 1866 as an example.
Nothing has changed in a century and a half.

[bulat]

In the Great Patriotic War, this issue was resolved as follows: The commander of the supporting battery in battle should be next to the infantry commander. Commands to control the fire of the battery came from him.

[SIT]

Quote: Pereira

Nothing has changed in a century and a half.

This may not have changed in our country, but not in the world. When Zhukov sent instructions to the troops by messengers, the Germans made full use of radio communications. Now, thanks to digital communications and computer technology, top management has the opportunity to observe everything in real time and, accordingly, make decisions online. Only such an opportunity must be realized and, most importantly, to force this very boss to use it, having previously trained it under the threat of a tribunal. At the grassroots level, they will grab it anyway, because. life is on the line. It is only necessary to teach this to the lieutenants, and not to stepping on the parade ground.

[zombirusrev]

"In addition, the plans of the senior boss may not correspond to the real situation" this is our old problem, they wrote about this back in the days of the Second World War about the attachment to the upper authorities ..

[Novik225]

Art support for every advancing unit is right here and instantly - well, it doesn’t happen. And NATO cannot be. Elementary art is not enough for everyone. What unit would not want support? What, attach a battery to each infantry platoon? To just work for them?

[Two]

It's all about the speed of decision making. And in our country, unfortunately, all this is deeply echeloned. And where it takes minutes to make decisions on the use of forces and means, hours pass ...

[gromit]

Just yesterday at VO, a certain military commander wrote about a 5-20-fold artillery superiority.
And then it turns out that they have been waiting for artillery support for hours.
What the hell is a barrage of fire if our gunners, after the very first shots, are forced to think about their safety, and not about supporting the attackers?

[Two]

Clear view from the front. It is necessary to draw conclusions to the star leaders in the troops.

[Konnick]

Clear view from the front. It is necessary to draw conclusions to the star leaders in the troops.

The sixth month and Khodakovsky's eyes began to see clearly, but our "stars" still only open slits. But if in reality, then they know everything, only they can do nothing. It is very difficult to win a counter-battery war without attack aircraft. We plow in squares, plow, and the result .....

[House 25 Sq. 380]

As Khodakovsky notes, in two days of fighting in rough terrain, his unit lost 5 people killed and 7 people wounded.

According to reports from the "other" side, the daily losses on the "line" from artillery fire of the RF Armed Forces are in the hundreds ...
Is this a performance indicator?

And what is the point of comparing the action of the battalion and regimental artillery, which Khodakovsky possesses, with the artillery of the brigade level and above, which fires at his fighters??

[alexey sidykin]

And if you take into account that the battles are being fought on the territory where the vushniks have shot every hillock ... then the losses of the "Vostok" are generally minimal.

[Radical]

Quote: seregatara1969

Rapid interaction of military branches is very important! You need to learn even from the enemy!

Quote: seregatara1969

Rapid interaction of military branches is very important! You need to learn even from the enemy!

What a "fresh" idea! The enemy has equipment of the 21st, and maybe the 22nd century. Of course, the compass should not be canceled, since the electronics may fail, or they may be suppressed, however, the positioning of the artillery unit, the enemy’s target designation is via satellite, compact counter-battery radars are operating, which are tied precisely to the RUK that everyone cheerfully reports about - from Yegorov to Star, to the "builder" with general stars. Stalin would not have tolerated this, but figured it out quickly and efficiently! But we have the Supreme High Command, which "did not graduate from the academies of the General Staff" - his words. It sounded like a removal from him of responsibility for what is happening in the war waged by his troops! This is the difference between the Generalissimo of Victory, and ... - I haven’t found a definition yet, sorry.

[Vladimir Postnikov]

Can't be! Just yesterday

Military observer Mikhail Khodarenok debunks the myth of vaunted Western weapons,

Article

Myths about the superiority of Western weapons are dispelled by the Russian NWO

Well, it never happened, but here it is again!
So who is right, Khodarenok or Khodakovsky?

[Eug]

Debunks myths about weapons - but not about the decision-making and control system.

[Vladimir Postnikov]

Quote: Eug

Debunks myths about weapons - but not about the decision-making and control system.

Should I understand you that our weapons are no worse, but our "decision-making and control system" is still bad? So?
Let me quote one of my own:

A system made up of relatively simple elements, but created taking into account the requirements of this system, is sometimes more effective and tenacious than the unsystematic accumulation of the most advanced models of military equipment that opposes it.

In other words, if the system is bad, then it is a complete furry animal.
But I will upset you even more. The artillery of the United States and Germany will still be better, because it is made taking into account the requirements of the system of modern warfare, and Russian - taking into account the past. If we have something quite modern, then in scanty (exhibition) quantities.

[Eug]

I'm not debunking this, but Khodarenok .. I'm just trying to understand his arguments.

[acetophenone]

Our commanders will kill themselves and kill their subordinates, but ANYONE FROM THE BELOW WILL NOT ALLOW SOMETHING TO DECIDE BY THEM. This is the principle. And you can't change it.
PS It is because of this that the regulars hate the "partisans".

[nik-mazur]

Quote: acetophenon

Our commanders ... THEY WILL NOT ALLOW ANYONE TO DECIDE SOMETHING BY YOURSELF ...

And it is right. Actually, this is precisely what distinguishes the army from the crowd with weapons. That is why absolutely in any army there is a rigid system of subordination and army discipline, violators of which without fail get into trouble of varying severity.

[Maluck]

Correctly!!! The principle of unity of command must operate in the army, for responsibility must be personalized. In my IMHO, all these shoals come out due to illiterate planning and provision.
If some unit is advanced to the forefront, then not only combat missions should be set, but also issues of support, withdrawal and cover, in case of force majeure, should be resolved. If we do not do this, or simply hammer a bolt on these seemingly trifles, then we will get what Khodakovsky received.

[nik-mazur]

Quote: Maluck

... shoals come out due to illiterate planning and provision ...

Shoals come out with any planning and support, simply because in a war it is fundamentally impossible to foresee everything. Literacy / illiteracy does not determine the presence of lumps, but their number. Well, whoever has fewer jambs, especially at the strategic level, wins. Other things being equal, of course...

[Sebostyuan]

And I thought that we had an on-duty battery of "Hurricane" or "Smerch" and "Orlan" circling in the air. As soon as it arrives at our positions, a report goes directly to the battery indicating the approximate direction. Well, the work begins.

[Two]

Read your fairy tales to your daughters!
Let the good fellows carry them across the seas ...

[Prometey]

This is the opinion of Khodakovsky and it has the right to be, although, I believe, he cannot have all the information. Therefore, it is not known what kind of artillery we are talking about, maybe he was faced with the situation when the artillery visible to him should have been used not for counter-battery combat, but for other tasks.
Although the scourge of the Russian, Soviet and Russian army has always been the lack of initiative of junior and middle officers. This is a characteristic feature of a Russian person - the fear of taking responsibility. Those who overcame this fear and achieved success, as well as those who had the will to carry out the order, based on the situation.
In some memoirs about the Second World War, I read an excerpt about the battles near Leningrad in 1942. There, the company of the young lieutenant was located in a place where the soldiers had to defend themselves near the swamp. And at 200 m there was a hillock - an ideal place for defense. The lieutenant was offered to station there, but he had clear orders to stand here in the swamp. And one platoon sent him and dug in on a hillock. This platoon ended up alone and survived and was able to hold the line until they were given permission to withdraw. These are the people who took responsibility and initiative and learned to beat the enemy.
So now, if there are commanders who are not afraid to take responsibility and will beat the enemy. Tribunal? Yes, in the Russian army there is no such practice at all. Maximum - well, they will be removed from service - it's not scary.

[Glory1974]

The lieutenant was offered to station there, but he had clear orders to stand here in the swamp. And one platoon sent him and dug in on a hillock.

This indicates not a lack of initiative, but low professionalism. From the Second World War to the present time, the battalion commander clarifies the line of combat contact, not higher. accordingly, on the scale of the battalion, positions can be shifted with his permission. One platoon literate, shifted positions, but the company did not.

[decimalegio]

I like Alexander Khodakovsky's analyzes the most. He is the one who sees things in their reality and explains them perfectly. When he spoke on Italian television, I appreciated what he said and how he said it. The other Russian guests seemed to me furious. Unfortunately, the quality of television commentators consists of people who make a lot of nonsense.

[Radical]

Quote: barclay

Maybe I'll say sedition now. You can punish me. But this is not the first time this has happened in our history. In 1941, the interaction with artillery and aviation was learned from the Germans. Today, apparently, we need to learn this from NATO. Don't they have brains?
But we always dispute where progress comes from...

It was like that, but they learned it quickly! And now?

[nik-mazur]

... the approach of the armies of NATO countries ... allows any sergeant to direct the resource that can bring the successful solution of the task closer ...

Like, any sergeant who comes under artillery fire can directly call a flight of bombers or a Himaras battery? Will help arrive in three minutes? Yeah, well fuck.
The systems of interaction and subordination in all armies are approximately the same, and any resource can only be used by those who are required by the state. If a battery of howitzers is attached to the battalion, then the battalion commander will be able to use it, if not, then “any sergeant” will lie with his nose on the ground and pray that his application for artillery support will be taken into account by higher authorities before shreds fly from this sergeant through the back streets .
You can improve communication, coordination and speed of decision-making, but in no army in the world will a sergeant be given the authority of a brigade commander, for example ...

[Radical]

Quote: Romario_Argo

that's why we use Brigade tactical groups BrTG
to have artillery: 152 mm, 203 mm, mortars 220 mm and 240 mm
the Armed Forces of Ukraine have only battalion BTGs

On this theater of operations, BTGs are not needed - ordinary parts and formations are needed, such as were in the Second World War during the liberation of Ukraine! Then divisions, corps, and armies worked .... These, our generals, who all graduated from the General Staff Academy, studied theory, the history of military art, but how they studied it is a question. To be honest, I myself was lenient on this subject. However, the war shows that it is not a sin to return to some tactics and techniques from past wars. For example - the assault on Mariupol. Almost like the assault on Koenigsberg. Conclusion made? There are still many settlements on the way of the liberation army. Created engineering assault units, or even parts, as then? Probably not! This VGK, together with his "builder, let them think. Stalin, having no education other than a seminary, possessed all the qualities that a leader of the State should have! Here I watched Zvezda, recently a story about the inventor of explosives, Leontiev, in my opinion, I may be mistaken Nevertheless, before the war, this nugget made explosives, which are still used today. And until he wrote to Stalin, nothing happened, although he sent letters to interested authorities. Nevertheless, the appeal reached the leader, listened for 40 minutes, smoked a pipe , and gave out that this is a good invention... But he did not finish the academies ... .

[Eug]

The surname of the inventor of explosives is Ledin. This story is described in great detail by an amazing writer - Yu.I. Mukhin (not the Mukhin who is constantly on TV, the other) in his book "If it were not for the generals ..." As for me, it is still super-relevant ..

[Beloemigrant]

awtor right! etot bardak prestupna halatnost or huze tak westi kontrbaterejnu borbu nieispolnimo

[Dmitry Krasikov]

It’s probably a matter of intelligence, the entire NATO satellite constellation is working on the APU, DLRO planes are hanging in the air at the borders, and as you can see, we have problems with this

[Cetarb kilk]

It looks like the problem is being solved. Now there are more and more videos (from the militia) where not D-30s work, but Hyacinths-B. There are about eight hundred of them in warehouses. It's bad that the rearmament is not going as fast as it should. But it goes...

[Vladimir 290]

D 30 and Hyacinth guns of completely different classes and tasks. Therefore, they are included in divisions of different levels. D30 is a regimental link, although back in the 80s it was planned to replace this caliber with 152. Hyacinth used to be an army subordination.

[stankow]

For the "style" in which I observe, the militias are fighting - maneuverably, in small groups, the D-30 is much more suitable for them.

[wladimirjankov]

You need to shoot on time and accurately and quickly. To do this, we need modern mobile counter-battery radars assigned to our specific artillery batteries. As well as electronic warfare equipment for combating enemy counter-battery radars and UAVs. We don't seem to have enough of either. Yes, and lazy and in no hurry to quickly change positions. We fire from the MLRS, as a rule, the entire package, and several dozen shells from the cannon artillery before they move off. As always, we rely on chance and that they will not have time to detect. But this does not work with the American KBB radars.

[Storog dvornik]

Quote: House 25 Sq. 380

what is the point of comparing the action of the battalion and regimental artillery, which Khodakovsky possesses, with the artillery of the brigade level and above

Exactly, all the more he cites as an example, as I understand Avdiivka, where for 8 years, all the necessary points were stupidly shot by the Armed Forces of Ukraine ... Where exactly this citizen was looking for 8 years, where his intelligence was, informants are a muddy character, unlike many dead commanders of his level? ... Do you see his sergeants leading the artillery of the brigade ... In fact, this is an assault on the "fortress", with all the consequences, including the losses of the attackers ...

[Techno]

Everything is as usual .. They didn’t learn anything .. Human lives are expendable.

[hohohol]

The Russian (and allied militia) system implies a whole chain of approvals, the decision is made by the senior commander.

There is only one way out - the senior commander to the front line.

[Sedoy]

Khodakovsky: “So, we are talking about artillery... The own artillery of the advancing units, as a rule, is short-range and is located in the affected area. Enemy reaction speed - four to six of our shots, then immediately "answer". This suggests that their artillery intelligence is working effectively. Artillery, on the other hand, is more long-range, which is located outside the affected area, obeys only the senior commander, and it takes from thirty minutes to four hours to engage it, while similar enemy artillery reacts in a matter of minutes, - why?
The point is in the structure of the army organization and in the structure of army thinking. The NATO approach, which is now actively used in Ukraine, implies the possibility for any sergeant, as part of the implementation of the plan, to request exactly the resource that can help solve the problem. Our system does not imply this: you need to go through the entire chain of approvals before the senior boss decides to allocate you the necessary fundswhich, as you can imagine, is problematic.
Funds work according to planned goals, but the plans of the senior commander may not coincide with the plans on the sector of the front, where there is a need for a heavier resource, and then you have to wait, and at this time the enemy is working and inflicting damage on us. Then our offensives break, then our defenses break through.. And here it's not a subjective factor - it's just the way the system is built."

here's news from the fields...
Well, who are now "well, stupid ..."

[UAZ 452]

If artillery reconnaissance is absent as a phenomenon, then at least pass long-range artillery, at least don’t pass it - one fig. If the Ukrainians are able to detect a battery that has opened fire after a few shots, and we are not able to do this, then where will the target designations for arbitrarily long-range artillery come from?

[Dedok]

from what is written, it follows that the adjustment of fire is completely absent; Blame it on the decisions of "someone" - no need.
The question is different: - why do we have such an "adjustment"? and what is missing?

[acetophenone]

Quote: Maluck

In my IMHO, all these shoals come out due to illiterate planning and provision.

The same cabbage soup, but pour it in! Problems in principle, not in execution. Stop pretending to be an ostrich! Enough fairy tales about a good king and bad boyars! And about "personalized responsibility" - sell it to stand-up artists. Will go "with a bang"!
There is no responsibility. None at all.

[Ingvar7]

This is a discovery for me, not a military man. And then there's the bureaucracy. Invincible, as usual, so the sacrifices will continue. Little has changed since WWII.

[alexey sidykin]

Oh how! Do you know wars without losses?

[flicker]

More long-range artillery is located outside the enemy's kill zone, but it is subordinate to the senior commander. To attract her, it takes from 30 minutes to 4 hours. Ukrainian artillery reacts within minutes.

"Ukrainian artillery reacts". Once again, REACTS, which means that she does not have any own plan of action - everything is based on reaction. Therefore, everyone loses in a row, even with a numerical superiority.

The Ukrainian army applies the approach of the armies of NATO countries. This approach allows any sergeant to direct the resource that can bring the successful solution of the task closer.

And if the sergeant, to put it mildly, does not quite correctly assess the situation? And if there are 10 sergeants and everyone asks to respond? What then is it?
And yes, what equal opponent did NATO defeat?

In addition, the plans of the senior commander may not correspond to the real situation at the front.

This is in the event that the sergeants, reporting, distort the situation. And if they report an objective situation, then the "senior boss" (to whom they report dozens of "sergeants") knows the situation not only in a separate sector of the front, but along the entire length of the front. And he knows better where in the first place long-range artillery should be redirected, and where in the second.

The enemy, meanwhile, continues to fire on the advancing troops. As a result, offensive plans are frustrated.

In fact, the enemy (which, if anything, is helped by dozens of countries) suffers colossal losses, surrenders one fortified area after another, leaves one settlement after another.

From what Khodakovsky wrote, the conclusion suggests itself:

the conclusion suggests itself ... and at the end of the CBO, a lot of people will be asked.

[Oleg133]

Babs give birth to new ones. That's the whole methodology of the offensive of the RI-USSR-RF

[stankow]

Oleg133, 100 years already. And they didn't come up with anything new?

[air wolf]

When we learn to fight...

[Eug]

Usually, the more limited the resource, the higher the chief decides on its use .. maybe it's time to return to the experience of the Great Patriotic War and transfer long-range guns with a spotter at the disposal of at least platoon commanders? Or promptly use long-range artillery to suppress Ukrainian batteries that suppress the allied "short-range"? In any case, the speed of decision-making needs to be increased; for this, a system of unified electronic charts with appropriate data exchange is highly desirable. As for me, ZSU has such a system.

[Glory1974]

according to our tactics, an artillery group is created in the brigade, regular artillery is transferred to the battalion commanders for reinforcement. It is not clear from the article whether artillery was handed over to Khodakovsky for reinforcement or not? Does he use it or not? And he does not need long-range artillery. How will he set tasks for her? What goals should she assign? He does not see further than 3-5 km, and he has no means of reconnaissance.
Most likely, the problem is when the artillery of the Armed Forces of Ukraine using counter-battery drugs online determines the coordinates of our guns and opens fire to kill, ours cannot react quickly and suppress the enemy.

[stankow]

Open, close, although Amer's technique, the one who walks second, answering, is always the loser.

[Oorfene Juice and his wooden soldiers]

Generals always prepare for the past war.

[alexey sidykin]

Yeah ... to listen to sofa experts since 1914, only idiots have been sitting at headquarters, and all geniuses are sitting on sofas at home. Both systems, both Western European and Russian, have pluses and minuses. Since they haven’t changed in more than a century, it means that it suits us more than the Western one.

[Radical]

Quote: Eug

The surname of the inventor of explosives is Ledin. This story is described in great detail by an amazing writer - Yu.I. Mukhin (not the Mukhin who is constantly on TV, the other) in his book "If it were not for the generals ..." As for me, it is still super-relevant ..

Yes, Ledin!, Right. Does it change anything? Did he get through to the leader? Are explosives still in use? Used! But those who are like young, advanced, creative - where are they? What do they know, what did they learn? Lawyers, economists? A useless generation for the Motherland.

[BastaKarapuzik And]

Marked material as important. I see here a direct analogy with the structure of the civil sphere of our society.
Namely, the complete lack of independence, authority, rights and initiative at all levels!
Despite the fact that top management does not see the picture in detail, and often does not understand it at all.
A typical scene is, as it were, a successful boss (of a workshop, for example) openly swims in elementary issues. In which almost any of his subordinates should understand. In fact, the subordinates are also weak in the majority ... At the same time, the boss does not have the right to use "large-caliber artillery", that is, he does not have the right to spend money as he chooses, and in fact no one has this right .. The enterprise is connected by hands and feet...
Disorder is everywhere.

[stankow]

Quote: bulat

In the Great Patriotic War, this issue was resolved as follows: The commander of the supporting battery in battle should be next to the infantry commander. Commands to control the fire of the battery came from him.

It's the same in our time. It cannot be otherwise. Art without infantry makes no sense.

[Vincent price]

The Soviet-Russian principle of command was sharpened for the management of divisions and armies. If every sergeant in the division starts asking for Arta, this Arta will not have time to go anywhere and there will be a mess, since there is no target selection. In Ukraine, the conflict is where maximum battalions operate, and more often companies and individual platoons. This is a modern conflict. If the Yankees understood this and changed the charter, then our high-cockades cannot see reality in any way.

[UAZ 452]

Russia has two allies - the army and the navy. But they have two most dangerous enemies - Russian generals and admirals. These enemies are capable of ruining the army, the navy, and the Russian state itself. However, officials with wide stripes are quite consistent with their civilian counterparts, which makes the situation even sadder.