Polish experts analyze the prospects for the "decisive battle" of the Ukrainian army for Kherson

The issue of the forthcoming counter-offensive of the Ukrainian army in the Kherson direction, widely advertised by Kyiv, has recently been actively discussed in the European media. The Polish edition of Wiadomosci wonders if a “decisive battle” will take place in southern Ukraine and what consequences it may lead to.

Kherson is located on the outskirts of the Crimea and is of strategic importance for Russia. After all, it is through the Kherson region that the land corridor to the peninsula passes, and it also plays a key role in providing Crimea with fresh water.

The Polish press emphasizes the importance of the Ukrainian army launching missile strikes on targets in the Kherson region. Naturally, if Russian troops are accused of destroying civilian infrastructure after each strike on a bridge, then here the Polish publication emphasizes the correctness of the strategy chosen by Kyiv to strike bridges in the Kherson region.

The attack on the bridges should be a prelude to the Ukrainian offensive,

- says Colonel of the Polish Army Piotr Lewandowski, a veteran of military operations in Iraq and Afghanistan as part of the Polish mission to NATO.

Levandovsky believes that the Ukrainian counter-offensive will take place in the coming days. He emphasizes the importance of the HIMARS MLRS in the destruction of objects. Another interlocutor of the publication, military historian Slavek Zagursky, believes that the Ukrainian army sets the main goal at the first stage of the counteroffensive to cut off the paths to retreat and supply Russian troops. Then the classical offensive phase will begin, in which the Armed Forces of Ukraine will use mechanized columns, which will be covered by artillery.

Where were all these columns before, when the Russian army rapidly occupied the Kherson region and the entire south of Zaporozhye, neither Zagursky nor Levandovsky for some reason do not report. At the same time, the Polish edition fears that Russia will strengthen its military presence in the Kherson region. The interlocutors of the publication Levandovsky and Zagursky admit that Russia has human resources that can be transferred to Ukraine. But it is not very clear what kind of forces the Russian Federation is going to send to protect the Kherson region.

Levandovsky, for example, believes that the Russian army has a motivation to defend the Kherson region. Zagursky emphasizes that the capture of Kherson by Ukrainian troops, if it occurs, will demonstrate to NATO that the assistance was not in vain. In fact, both victorious Polish experts admit that the goal of the attack on Kherson for Kyiv is not even to re-establish control over this territory, but to demonstrate to NATO its determination to continue acting only with financial and military assistance.

Also, Polish analysts acknowledge that Kherson plays a crucial role in a possible Russian attempt to take over Odessa. If Ukraine loses Odessa, it will be an absolute disaster for Kyiv, Levandovsky believes.

However, the reasoning of Polish experts, as well as the loud statements of Kyiv, will not bring victory for the Armed Forces of Ukraine in the Kherson direction. If Russia has already occupied this territory, taken it under control, if the inhabitants of the Kherson region are preparing for a referendum on joining the Russian Federation, then this is forever. An attempt to take over the Kherson region will only lead to a huge number of losses of the Ukrainian army. Which, however, does not scare the West at all, calling on Zelensky to fight "to the last Ukrainian."

Comments

[Zaurbek]

For army 404 ... even if we imagine the successful capture of Kherson .... with the entrenched army of the Russian Federation ..... victory will be equal to defeat.

[Adrey]

Quote: Zaurbek

For army 404 ... even if we imagine the successful capture of Kherson .... with the entrenched army of the Russian Federation ..... victory will be equal to defeat.

Why? Do not explain?

[Zaurbek]

Count how many troops of the Russian Federation are there ..... Imagine them on the defensive .... Then imagine the losses of the attacking side and correlate this with the number of their troops.

[Adrey]

Quote: Zaurbek

Count how many Russian troops are there

I can not. Do you have such information?

Quote: Zaurbek

Picture them on the defensive.

Introduced. Will it be something that has no analogues in the world?

Quote: Zaurbek

Then imagine the losses of the advancing side and correlate this with the number of their troops.

With a well-organized and successful offensive, the losses of the defenders are ultimately higher.

[Zaurbek]

Yes, but there are different amounts of forces and means. Aviation and artillery

[Adrey]

Quote: Zaurbek

Yes, but there are different amounts of forces and means. Aviation and artillery

You say so, but you cannot give figures from either side. In aviation, of course, yes, but no one canceled air defense.

[Alekseev]

"with a well-organized offensive ..."
That's for sure. But one literacy is not enough here ...
Success also requires the achievement of air supremacy and serious,
better than a multiple, superiority in the possibilities of fire damage on the ground. Especially in the steppe area. You also need tanks with a margin for losses. Do Poland and other Vassalov have tanks? After all, it’s not so easy to transfer tankers to Abrashi.
One "nibilized" problem cannot be solved. And also, to cover the rear and headquarters, it is necessary to ensure that they are not "calibrated" ...
So what the hell is business ... If they could have done them, they probably would have done at least partially already.
And we also need operational surprise, and then everyone is trumpeting ...
Aren't the dill preparing to "overcome" in another place, and Kherson to divert forces and attention?

[Adrey]

Quote: Alekseev

"with a well-organized offensive ..."
That's for sure. But one literacy is not enough here ...

Why do you think that the enemy is a complete layman and did not fulfill all the conditions you listed below in the local area? Except air superiority. Although it’s not bad for him to simply “close” the sky for our aviation, since he doesn’t have his own. Already a certain parity.

[Alekseev]

I do not think that the layman, I wrote that only literacy
for such cases it is not enough that you need to have material
opportunities and surprise, and a number of other factors, favorable terrain, for example.

[Adrey]

Quote: Alekseev

I do not think that the layman, I wrote that only literacy
for such cases it is not enough that you need to have material
possibilities

It's possible they have them. We pumped them up with weapons, we gave them time to prepare the mobilized (although they may not be driven on the offensive, they will put them on the defensive, freeing the personnel units).

Quote: Alekseev

and surprise

Desirable, but not required. In general, I got the impression that the offensive is already underway, and therefore they started talking about it. As one of the confirming factors, the lack of our progress near Donetsk. Massive artillery strikes cover the removed manpower from this direction.
In general, I will quote my post the day before:

Adrey (Andrey)
1
28 July 2022 13: 36
+1
British intelligence: The counteroffensive of Ukrainian troops in the Kherson region is gaining momentum
Quote: VlR
In fact, the situation is quite disturbing,

More than. The very fact that the enemy is capable of conducting offensive operations should be alarming. And if the offensive near Kharkov even had a tactically limited meaning (a test of the pen, so to speak), then in the Kherson direction it was already completely scientific.
Remote from our offensive theater of operations, respectively, the best balance of power for the attackers. Limited number of communications through a serious natural obstacle.
The suspension of the offensive on Bakhmut becomes clear. After the start of the Kerch-Feodosiya landing operation, Manstein immediately stopped the assault on Sevastopol.

[svp67]

There is so much talk in the enemy press about the attack on Kherson that I would not be surprised that the Armed Forces of Ukraine will launch a counteroffensive somewhere near Izyum

[Krasnodar]

And ours will launch an offensive in the south, which is also not excluded. At the same time, throwing cast iron on the Donbas grouping of the Armed Forces of Ukraine for grinding l / s.

[leks]

Quote: Krasnodar

And ours will launch an offensive in the south, which is also not excluded. At the same time, throwing cast iron on the Donbas grouping of the Armed Forces of Ukraine for grinding l / s.

Written with one in VK, about the attack on Nikolaev.
He writes that there are not enough people and equipment for this, supposedly everything is thrown into the Donbass.
In Kherson, units are only for defense. Perhaps they will take it after the Donbass, but this is not a fact.

[Krasnodar]

Quote: leks

ostensibly everything is thrown to Donbass.

Supposedly

[leks]

Quote: Krasnodar

Quote: leks

ostensibly everything is thrown to Donbass.

Supposedly

Therefore, I write that "supposedly".
But you must admit that if there were strength and opportunity, then Nikolaev would have been taken long ago. Or it was not originally going to take. This is my speculation no more.

[vladcub]

You should work in the General Staff

[leks]

Quote: vladcub

You should work in the General Staff

Seriously! Be my protégé?
I see you are doing the same well in your comments in order to go to the Moscow Region.

[vladcub]

I have a smart sofa

[leks]

Quote: vladcub

I have a smart sofa

Wow, how it is! At VO, everyone has a smart sofa, which is why we write "smart comments".

[vladcub]

Off topic: the news said that the FSB in Lipitske prevented the attack.
3 associated with the SBU were preparing an explosion.
Detained: a man and 2 women.
Thank you, FSB officers, for not "sleeping", then some of us are sure of this, but they did Skoda.
Indeed, if you think about it, since February 24, there has not yet been a special Skoda. And they have a lot of trained and motivated terrorists. If they were given free rein, they would .... They did

[U_GOREC]

Quote: leks

Seriously! Be my protégé?

"Protégé" has the opposite meaning to what you mean...

[leks]

Wrongly expressed

[Krasnodar]

My amateurish thoughts:
1) There really are no forces to take a city the size of Nikolaev - when preparing an offensive in the Donbass;
2) However, a strike in the steppe on the concentration of dill deprived of air cover in the conditions of our air superiority and artillery is quite logical. Let’s pull back the Armed Forces of Ukraine from the Donbass, nothing grandiose is happening there now, except for the grinding of fortifications and manpower, including reinforcements of the Ukrainians, with artillery, as well as the gradual occupation of the Slavic-Krematorsky defense center that is advantageous for a future attack;
3) At the same time, this will be a signal to the West about the inappropriateness of financing / supplying Ukraine as a doomed project, as well as a blow to the current dill propaganda, the morality of the population, respectively.

[leks]

Quote: Krasnodar

My amateurish thoughts:
1) There really are no forces to take a city the size of Nikolaev - when preparing an offensive in the Donbass;
2) However, a strike in the steppe on the concentration of dill deprived of air cover in the conditions of our air superiority and artillery is quite logical. Let’s pull back the Armed Forces of Ukraine from the Donbass, nothing grandiose is happening there now, except for the grinding of fortifications and manpower, including reinforcements of the Ukrainians, with artillery, as well as the gradual occupation of the Slavic-Krematorsky defense center that is advantageous for a future attack;
3) At the same time, this will be a signal to the West about the inappropriateness of financing / supplying Ukraine as a doomed project, as well as a blow to the current dill propaganda, the morality of the population, respectively.

It would be nice, but we do not know how they will decide above. It remains only to wait and watch.

[Krasnodar]

Of course, these are my thoughts aloud))

[navigator777]

There is enough equipment, few people, in the South it is better to wear down the enemy in defense, they suffer monstrous losses advancing in the steppe, this is more profitable than picking them out of the cities.

[Krasnodar]

There, you can put them in the steppe in tens of thousands, and not attack the cities - just roll them out on your native bare table, drove them into settlements. And there are already boilers, incl. around Nikolaev

[vladcub]

I’ll tell you a secret: in Moscow, along Znamenskaya Street, the General Staff of the Russian Federation is located, and there is an analytical department and they calculate where the secondary, and where the main sector of the front is, and the reserve is sent there

[aslanxnumx]

There are such analysts sitting there that it’s difficult to understand what is happening, they were probably taken on the street by the announcement of the victims of the Unified State Examination

[R]

they were probably picked up on the street by the victims of the Unified State Examination

Well, then, of course, you will still be of the old, Soviet, school, right? Unified State Examination is not messed up? So why didn't you respond to that ad? I would show them all there how to lead the regiments into the attack)))

[avg avg]

He can't. His commander's horse died of old age, otherwise he would have shown it!

[igorka357]

You revealed the plans of "one" of the General Staff, how could you..?

[ultra]

The south was strengthened enough, but not for an offensive, now the main goal is to "cut off" fortified in the Peski-Avdeevka area.

[Krasnodar]

Yes, but it needs to be done gradually.

[ultra]

That's how they work.

[dmi.pris1]

I also notice. Which military will blow for more than a month, that we will attack here? It looks like misinformation. But near Izyum it is quite possible.

[ultra]

It is unlikely near Izyum. Our main grouping and airfields on the territory of Russia itself are too close.

[voyaka uh]

"I won't be surprised that the Armed Forces of Ukraine will launch a counteroffensive near Izyum" ///

Guessed.
It has already begun. Counteroffensive southwest of Izyum.
It will not allow the transfer of reinforcements to Kherson.

[nik-mazur]

Quote: voyaka uh

Counteroffensive southwest of Izyum

Yeah, yeah: "According to the American Institute for the Study of War, Ukrainian forces may have launched a localized counterattack southwest of Izyum."
Or maybe they didn't start. Or maybe they started, but not a counterattack: "Currently, Russian forces are involved in several major operations: Subordinate main attack - the encirclement of Ukrainian troops in the cauldron between Izyum and Donetsk and Luhansk regions."
And the rest is right.

[Krasnodar]

It's a distraction
For success, it must be reinforced by strikes from the Kharkiv region, and there the forces of the Armed Forces of Ukraine are constrained by battles / shelling

[ultra]

There is no counteroffensive there.

[Krasnodar]

Honestly? It is not clear what and where
Shelling, airstrikes, too much artillery, local attacks. It looks like preparing for a big batch.

[ultra]

This war of artillery and aviation, if from the first the Ukrainians are even more or less complete with aviation, they single-handedly use the remaining su25 and mi24, blows by nurses from the nose-up.

[Krasnodar]

Aviation to a lesser extent

[R]

good You guessed it.
It has already begun. Counteroffensive southwest of Izyum.
It will not allow the transfer of reinforcements to Kherson.

Israeli, is it you there, in front, on a white horse, with a piss-blue rag on a karamultuk, leading the "counteroffensive" of the Kakels? Well, then we are all calm here: you and your brothers in mind will again do "something wrong" (c)

[Eug]

PMSM, north of Kharkov along the border: Udy-Zolochev - Cossack Lopan - Liptsy - Vesele - Rubizhnoye with a further turn to the South along the Seversky Donets. There in a straight line from 70 kilometers. Something like this...

[avg avg]

Congenially!

[vladcub]

"Under the Raisins" is a classic of the genre: to say one thing, but to strike in another place.
I am not S. K. SHOIGU and not the supreme commander, and therefore I will express the opinion of my sofa:
You have to be a complete duan to announce: I will hit the 1st at point Z.
You need to be down three times to believe the newspaper where the main blow will be

[navigator777]

Quote: vladcub

"Under the Raisins" is a classic of the genre: to say one thing, but to strike in another place.
I am not S. K. SHOIGU and not the supreme commander, and therefore I will express the opinion of my sofa:
You have to be a complete duan to announce: I will hit the 1st at point Z.
You need to be down three times to believe the newspaper where the main blow will be

It is very illogical to hit near Izyum, large allied forces are concentrated there, and it’s more difficult to transfer reserves not so far to Izyum, it’s more difficult to transfer them to the South. Rather, local movements of the Armed Forces of Ukraine.
And Kherson and Zaporozhye is a political issue, if they become part of Russia based on the results of a referendum, then this will be a terrible political blow for the Zeli regime.

[vladcub]

It happens that a political issue prevails over tactical expediency, and then: "put out the light and drain the water * - the dope will be higher than the roof

[mitroha]

Quote: svp67

There is so much talk in the enemy press about the attack on Kherson that I would not be surprised that the Armed Forces of Ukraine will launch a counteroffensive near Izyum

The same probability of no offensive, kmk

veteran of military operations in Iraq and Afghanistan as part of the Polish mission to NATO.

Thank you, laugh

[Skif]

Most likely lies and misinformation. There is too much and this "thesis" is being actively promoted. But why the shelling of our territory from the north-east of Ukraine has intensified is a question.

[vladcub]

"art shelling has intensified" there may be several reasons for this: a) revenge on the civilian population of the lost territory, b) to disrupt peaceful life and sow fear, then it will come in handy, c) to divert attention from something or, on the contrary, prepare something.
There's a lot of room for speculation here.

[iouris]

Quote: "If Ukraine loses Odessa, it will be an absolute disaster for Kyiv, Levandovsky believes." End of quote.
It will be a disaster for official Warsaw. She is on her way there. The Poles will only benefit from this "catastrophe".

[Shket53]

"The question of the forthcoming counter-offensive of the Ukrainian army in the Kherson direction, widely advertised by Kyiv" ... Ndaa really ... ehehe, what propaganda is doing .. Hear the "puppies" who are "nimmerly" .. and listen to Lyuska Arestovich more and more often ... this type of you will also not tell such tales about all sorts of "counterattacks", and all sorts of transitions there.

[kor1vet1974]

that the capture of Kherson by Ukrainian troops, if it occurs, will demonstrate to NATO that the assistance was not in vain

.... And if it does not happen ..? Vodka, no beer, money down the drain?

[tihonmarine]

Quote: kor1vet1974

will demonstrate to NATO that the aid was not in vain
.... And if it does not happen ..? Vodka, no beer, money down the drain?

And if it doesn't happen, then Afghanistan-2 again - "Biden, yeah, Kyiv is kyrdyk!"

[vladcub]

"if it doesn't happen" urgently find the last one to say: I, we, did everything and the victory was close, but ..... one bad guy spoiled everything. I think who is this bastard

[Vladimir Postnikov]

Already the second today's article on this topic. I can only repeat my comment on the first one.

- So, we listened to the fortune-tellers and Wishlist representatives of the Nazism. And what will the head of our transport department answer them? Will we keep Kherson until the end of the year? By the way, where is the head of the transport department? If they find him, immediately to the podium.

[zenion]

They will take Cherusoni and that will be enough for them. Moreover, some of those who were hit on the head wrote that Israel would help them.

[rocket757]

However, the reasoning of Polish experts, as well as the loud statements of Kyiv,

You can not discuss, there is nothing to discuss there ....

[HAM]

"...... Then the phase of the classic offensive will come, in which the Armed Forces of Ukraine will use mechanized columns, which will be covered by artillery ....."

Listen to the Poles, they won’t teach bad things ........... something is painfully zealously advertising a "creeping counterattack" on Kherson .... probably to deceive want....

[ultra]

Creeping will not work there, TVD does not have such a thing.

[tihonmarine]

An attempt to take over the Kherson region will only lead to a huge number of losses of the Ukrainian army. Which, however, does not scare the West at all

But did anyone feel sorry for the native troops? They need to complete the task set by the owner, and die.

[APASUS]

An offensive requires people, equipment and means. Let's start with the last:
1 Naftagaz declared bankruptcy not by chance, he has real money and now the country needs them.
2 Of course, people can be gathered along the beaches and markets, but as a combat unit, this is nothing. Serious training is needed.
3 How many technicians from the West should be supplied in order to get a full-fledged offensive that no one will notice. Moreover, considering that you will have to attack without aviation

[Alexander 3]

Yes, and our intelligence is constantly clarifying the location of weapons depots, destroying them pointwise. After all, we are at war with NATO,

[Uprun]

A couple of days ago, there was a note on "VO", like two Polish experts argued .... They pour from empty to empty.
I then commented: "Two fools argued ..."
Don't add, don't subtract...

[Dedok]

how is it with Krylov: "... the cuckoo praises the rooster, for the fact that he praises the cuckoo"

[ruha]

Why shell the bridge if an offensive is planned? More like desperation. At least somehow slow down the offensive of the RF Armed Forces. Not?

[ultra]

This will not slow anything down if the offensive is planned.

[Adagka]

There is only one perspective - the more dill we send to Bandera as soon as possible, the better.
these bastards have been picking at one bridge for two weeks, and then they open their mittens for the whole of Kherson.
it still needs to be left out of the equation that dill, in principle, will not be able to covertly concentrate in the steppe a huge grouping sufficient for a counteroffensive. And it should be just huge, because dill has one option for at least some kind of success - this is to throw meat.
On the other hand, the steppe on the path of the advance of the ukroreich will finally be properly fertilized,
you can open up new land.

[Oorfene Juice and his wooden soldiers]

Let's wait and see who slaps who.

[ultra]

So this is already visible. 100 thousand groups of the Russian Federation, plus 50 thousand LDNR demilitarize dill from its post 350 thousand only on the line of contact.

[Oorfene Juice and his wooden soldiers]

Do not count your chickens before they are hatched.

[vladcub]

"Colonel of the Polish Army Lewandowski * remembered by analogy: Armor General Berling, the first division commander Tadeusz Kosciuszko.
And Mikhail Karlovich Lewandovsky, commander of the 11th Red Army

[Adagka]

Quote: Oorfene Juice and his wooden soldiers

Let's wait and see who slaps who.

about how the dill burns (and why aren’t you actually preparing for a counteroffensive near Kherson?) they foolishly feel that when Zeleboba crap again with the counteroffensive (and he crap) he won’t get any wunderwaffles anymore.

[Fitter65]

Then the classical offensive phase will begin, in which the Armed Forces of Ukraine will use mechanized columns, which will be covered by artillery.

Where were all these columns before, when the Russian army rapidly occupied the Kherson region and the entire south of Zaporozhye, neither Zagursky nor Levandovsky for some reason do not report.

Well, the Poles just put them T-72s from their gas tanks on several columns. Well, the Poles are great strategists. 1939 to help them ...

[megadeth]

https://rusvesna.su/news/1659029838

[infantrefir]

Already one phrase "Polish expert" speaks for itself.

[Alex Kron]

There is a good footballer Lewandowski. And this unknown "veteran" talks about things about which he knows little. These are the pshek warriors.

[Sergey Tankist]

Nothing of the Armed Forces of Ukraine near Kherson does not shine ...

[Foundling]

After the words "Polish experts" you can not read

[valentine light]

So I am surprised how, with such strategists, Poland was dismembered 5 times with the loss of statehood.

[Viktor Sergeev]

Next to Kherson is Crimea with its at least 20 grouping and a bunch of weapons. In the steppes, in the complete absence of their own aircraft, only ukromortals can attack. "Polish analysts" is already a joke.

[dmitry_2]

As usual, divination about the short term future events. Many who guessed and predicted the development of events from February 24?
But I can predict the main thing - the tasks of the NWO will be completed.

[Vlvl]

The softer the reaction of Russia, the more brazen and provocative antics of the Western gang. And at the beginning, they were even afraid to talk about the supply of weapons. No, nevertheless, if they were going to beat, duck in such a way that they would knock out thoughts along with brains about aggression against Russia!

[Reznov]

Russia already built their fortified defenses around Kherson. Everything is set to trap the Ukrainians. Elite Spetsnaz and Airborne units were transferred there weeks ago, alongside massive artillery and air support. Bm-30 Smerch units and Ka-52 helicopters are ready to stop any advancements.

[Aist_M]

I'm probably the best couch analyst because I see Russian troops cut off by the Dnieper on the right bank?
What is their strategic advantage? Yes, none! It doesn't matter how many of them are there, what kind of reserve and weapons. They are pinned down in a narrow, completely shot through section of enemy territory.
There is no possibility of withdrawal or operational maneuver.
There is no way to get a reserve (we saw the crossing over a small rivulet earlier)
There is no possibility of rotation of troops, evacuation of the wounded to a safe rear.
There is no secrecy, since the territory is inhabited by a contingent loyal to the enemy.
No matter how serious the line of defense is, breaking through it in one or several sectors is not a problem. Thus, the Russian troops will fall into a tactical encirclement without much effort.
On the other hand, the ZSU has large cities behind it and an unlimited reserve in food, supplies and weapons.
Known, well-explored territory on a fairly narrow section of the front.
The terrain allows for the widespread use of both artillery and motorized rifle units.
Motivation and support of the population.
And without Polish analysts, it is easy to understand that, having knocked out the main warehouses and supply routes for the ZSU, they moved on to cleaning up the operational warehouses and destroying equipment that had nowhere to replenish.
At the next stage, one should expect a massive strike on the defensive line and a breakthrough, the dismemberment of the grouping of troops with access to the rear of the defensive structures.
How can this be avoided - no way, the strategic moment was missed when it was necessary to move deep into the territory, beyond the Dnieper, at least 100-150 km.

[Andryukha G]

"Veterans of military operations" with local Papuans broadcast how they will defeat a nuclear country

[Igor_Aretano]

And what is new, our own, independent, expert here compared to the Ukrainian point of view? The Poles do not have their own point of view, only a stupid repetition of Ukrainian propaganda, even without a critical presentation of the Russian point of view. Poles even Reuters, etc. do not quote-only Ukrainians.

[Alexey-74]

If the offensive of the VFU really takes place, despite the existing air defense, the Russian Aerospace Forces will simply destroy everything from the air, and this is not counting the numerous missile strikes, which there is no doubt will be multiplied.

[valentine light]

Lewandowski, "fought" with the Taliban, praise God that he remained intact ... :))

And how with such "strategists" Poland was divided FIVE times with the loss of statehood, it's incomprehensible to the mind :))

Bridges for the Russian army are not a problem, our whole country is in rivers, there are more than 2.8 million of them and swamps, certainly not like Poland with two large rivers Vistula and Oder. :)

True for Russia, but not for banderlogs.
Lewandowski forgot how the "Ukrainians" in Lvov in August 1941 killed the Poles and this was even before the "Volyn Massacre".