There were pictures of the patrol ship "Pavel Derzhavin" project 22160 with the installed air defense system "Tor-M2KM"

The lead ship of the series "Vasily Bykov" photo 2021

There was confirmation of the previously announced information about the installation of short-range anti-aircraft missile systems "Tor-M22160KM" on patrol ships of project 2. Pictures of the Pavel Derzhavin corvette with an air defense system installed at the stern appeared on the Web. Allegedly, the decision to install air defense systems on ships of this project was made taking into account the experience of a special military operation in Ukraine.

The fact that the entire series of patrol ships of project 22160 will be retrained as air defense corvettes, "Military Review" has already reported in one of news materials. It was reported that the corvettes "Dmitry Rogachev", "Pavel Derzhavin" and "Sergey Kotov" will be re-equipped taking into account the combat use of the air defense system on the "Vasily Bykov", the fifth corvette of the "Viktor Veliky" series will go to the fleet with the already installed air defense system "Tor-M2KM" . The sixth and last ship of the Nikolai Sipyagin series is planned to be transferred to the fleet next year with a new version of the ship-based air defense system.

According to a source in the military-industrial complex, only the lead ship of the Vasily Bykov series, which takes part in the special operation, was in the installed complex, but judging by the picture, an air defense system has already been installed on the third corvette of the Pavel Derzhavin series.

The third corvette of the Pavel Derzhavin series with the Tor-M2KM air defense system installed at the stern

The patrol ship (corvette) of the 22160 project has a displacement of 1700 tons and is capable of speeds up to 30 nodes. Navigation range - 6000 miles, autonomy - 60 day. Crew - 80 man. On board the basing of the Ka-27PS helicopter is provided. As a standard weapon, corvettes equip 76-mm with artillery, anti-aircraft missile systems and machine guns.

Comments

[Skipper]

Air defense corvette!!! How menacing it sounds. And in real life, the smallest air defense system is installed .. less in range than the Shell. Yes-ah-ah ... and where were you before when you were building ships of this series. ..and why, instead of an air defense system, a gym was installed between the AK-176MA tower and the wheelhouse .... why didn’t they immediately build in the Redoubt air defense system?

[Victor_B]

Quote: Skipper

Air defense corvette!!!

The project itself is messy. Purpose, type - anti-piracy. Well, at least that's what the media called him.
They praised for "modularity" now the land-based TOR was "nailed" to the deck and that it could work with significant pitching? Filled with sea water?
Nah - you want to live and you won’t get so upset (c),
So, it is the TOR on board that will eventually turn out to be the most sought-after weapon on, in fact, a high-speed barge on which the gun is also standing.

SAM "Dagger" (GRAU index - 3K95, export name - Klinok, according to the classification of the US Department of Defense and NATO - SA-N-9 Gauntlet (Russian Latnaya gauntlet)) - Soviet and Russian multi-channel all-weather sea-based anti-aircraft missile system designed for repelling massive raids using air attack weapons (low-flying anti-ship and anti-radar missiles, guided and unguided bombs, etc.) in the near zone (up to 12 km).

This is a "weakened" version of TOR

[lopvlad]

Quote: Victor_B

now the land-based TOR has been "nailed" to the deck and that it will be able to work with significant rolling? Filled with sea water?

it will still be with a 100% result, because this is not a Western MANPADS that need to hit the plane several times in order to fill it up.

[TreeSmall]

and that he will be able to work with significant pitching?

In fairness, "Tor-M2U" was "taught" to repel air raids on the move, without stopping, back in 2015 (and it shakes there no less, and if more, then the enemies don't fly)

When the combat vehicle was moving at a speed of more than 25 kilometers per hour along an unequipped steppe road, the target was detected, taken for auto tracking and shot down at a distance of more than 8 kilometers.

9M338K in TPK Water is not very scary. Rest-?
The solution is of course "on the knee", well, as always

[huntsman650]

"Dagger" is no longer produced, the last in 92. He has an old email. the base and instrumentation are 5 times larger than the TOP.
There is a modernized "Dagger" in the Northern Fleet and in units. copy. (By the way, SOC is already from TOP).

[Boa kaa]

Quote: Victor_B

This is a "weakened" version of TOR

Yes, this is an early Thor. And now Tor-M2KM, and next in line is Tor-MF.
They will have better features. BK is annoying. Ready for launch - a total of 8 missiles - 9M338K. This is not serious for an air defense CORVETTE !!!
(Where is the money, Zin!? (c)

[Victor_B]

Quote: Boa constrictor KAA

Ready for launch - a total of 8 missiles - 9M338K. This is not serious for an air defense CORVETTE !!!

It's not serious, it's just for smokers to laugh!
And for reloading, you also need to “nail” a crane next to it, because such containers are not carried by hand!

[novel66]

to hell with that! why not painted?

[Victor_B]

Quote: novel xnumx

to hell with that! why not painted?

Offend the boss!
Painted in our native air defense colors!

[novel66]

yeah, and paint the gun in the native colors of the gunners!

[lopvlad]

Quote: novel xnumx

why not painted?

why paint it if it is made in the form of a universal module (which can be put on a wheeled chassis, permanently on land or on a ship) and on these ships for a while.

[Dikson]

a mess .. didn’t the boatswain have enough ball? Balagan staged, you know ..

[mva]

There is nothing more permanent than temporary. Moscow covered the entire Black Sea Fleet, which ordered a long life. And there is nothing to replace it. The Russian Federation has not launched a single cruiser for its entire existence (since the 91st), however.

[antivirus]

There are no generals in the fleet yet, so it’s not beautiful.
And the deck lawn is unplanted and unmowed

[Victor_B]

Quote: antivirus

There are no generals in the fleet yet, so it’s not beautiful.
And the deck lawn is unplanted and unmowed

The curbs are not whitewashed and the snowdrifts are not square!

[Machito]

Quote: Skipper

Air defense corvette!!! How menacing it sounds. And in real life, the smallest air defense system is installed .. less in range than the Shell. Yes-ah-ah ... and where were you before when you were building ships of this series. ..and why, instead of an air defense system, a gym was installed between the AK-176MA tower and the wheelhouse .... why didn’t they immediately build in the Redoubt air defense system?

Why isn't it painted?
You can put one on any barge.

[zloybond]

Now it is necessary to make an amendment in the description: - Instead of a helicopter, an air defense system is provided. Because the helipad is now occupied.

[Stirbjorn]

Quote: zloybond

Now it is necessary to make an amendment in the description: - Instead of a helicopter, an air defense system is provided. Because the helipad is now occupied.

So a modular ship! Everything as stated, modern! - They landed a helicopter - a PLO corvette, loaded a Buk - it became air defense, a couple of inflatable boats - a paratrooper!

[paul3390]

Say thank you for at least guessing to remove it from the caterpillar chassis ..

[Alexey RA]

Quote: paul3390

Say thank you for at least guessing to remove it from the caterpillar chassis ..

And he didn’t have a chassis - in the TOR-M2KM, "Kupol" pulled out all the stuffing from the army air defense system and stuffed it into a single unit for use wherever possible, up to the object air defense.

... the design of the new complex provides for the possibility of placing it at the request of the customer on any automobile chassis, semi-trailer, trailer, railway platforms of the appropriate carrying capacity, as well as small-tonnage vessels or using it in a stationary version on the roofs of buildings and structures

This module is already 9 years old - and now it finally came in handy.

[Alien ...]

Where were you? In Monaco. Together with Borisov and Rakhmanov. The same hnya with "Buyans" and "Karakurts". Yes, and with frigates 22350, by and large ...

[Ratmir_Ryazan]

Air defense corvette!!! How menacing it sounds. And in real life, the smallest air defense system is installed .. less in range than the Shell. Yes-ah-ah ... and where were you before when you were building ships of this series. ..and why, instead of an air defense system, a gym was installed between the AK-176MA tower and the wheelhouse .... why didn’t they immediately build in the Redoubt air defense system?

Because they made a patrol ship with a great autonomy of 2 months with a crew of 28 people + 80 marines or someone else, and if you put Poliment-Redut, you get a corvette pr.20380 with a crew of 100 people and an autonomy of 15 days.

The fact that TOR was put on these patrol ships is an extreme measure, we have too few ships with modern air defense in the Black Sea.

Still, +6 TORs near Snake Island will not be superfluous. And the fact that there are no anti-ship missiles or other air defense missiles on patrol ships, according to the idea, should have a positive effect on their survivability in the event of a ship being hit.

[UAZ 452]

And the fact that there are no anti-ship missiles or other air defense missiles on patrol ships, according to the idea, should have a positive effect on their survivability in the event of a ship being hit.

And if from the weapon there is only a pistol in the commander's safe - even more positively. Yes, and fuel is a fire hazardous substrate, you need a sail and oars.

[Ratmir_Ryazan]

And if from the weapon there is only a pistol in the commander's safe - even more positively. Yes, and fuel is a fire hazardous substrate, you need a sail and oars.

On patrol ships, pr.

This is quite enough to fight pirates, and this is what this ship was created for.

For other purposes, for a war with a stronger enemy, corvettes pr.20380 and pr.20385 are being built.

[Sergey3]

And it’s not easier then to order a cheap barge and tie a torus, beech, shell there. Cheap and cheerful than this expensive and worthless trough.

[ism_ek]

Quote: Sergey3

But it’s not easier then to order a cheap barge

Actually, this is the "barge" with a gun and a hangar for a helicopter. )

[impostor]

In this case, the helicopter fades into the background, the helipad is occupied by air defense systems

[poquello]

Quote: impostor

In this case, the helicopter fades into the background, the helipad is occupied by air defense systems

but the hangar is free, there is a reason for creativity

[UAZ 452]

Well, there is already a gym there, I suggest - a swimming pool. Where without him on a warship?

[lopvlad]

Quote: ism_ek

Actually, this is the "barge" with a gun and a hangar for a helicopter

if you look like that, then the American aircraft carrier is also essentially a large barge with a fuel canister and aircraft hangars.

[NNikolaich]

...self-propelled

[Ru_Na]

It was necessary to simply design normally, install the same Calm instead of a gym, and not rush about with this modularity.

[Alexey RA]

Quote: Ru_Na

It was necessary to simply design normally, install the same Calm instead of a gym, and not rush about with this modularity.

There is one question with "Shtil" - are there any seats for "Nuts" and OEK, as well as cable routes for all SAM modules? And then one gets the impression that the designers assumed that the air defense system is only a UVP and that's it.

[d4rkmesa]

Remove the gym - but how to sweat on a long voyage?

[firemann]

I think for a good boatswain it will not be difficult

[ism_ek]

Quote: Ru_Na

It was necessary to simply design normally, install the same Calm instead of a gym, and not rush about with this modularity.

A three-coordinate radar must be installed, plus, as they wrote above, the illumination radar. And remembering the torment with Polymet and Zaslon .... The cost and construction time would have increased manifold.

[Alexey RA]

Quote: ism_ek

And remembering the torment with Polymet and Zaslon .... The cost and construction time would have increased manifold.

No, they wouldn't grow up. Just "Calm" had no problems - thanks to the Indians. Therefore, they put it on domestic 11356.
And they even offered it as an alternative to "Polyment-Redoubt" at 22350 - they say, bury the stewardess and install a normal "Shtil" air defense system, otherwise with a "multi-point" these frigates will rot near the wall without waiting for the complex to be ready.

[Azis]

If the barge allows, you can still place Tunguska, Shilka, ZU-shku, Osa, and on the sides of sailors with MANPADS

[Frost]

Quote: Azis

If the barge allows, you can still place Tunguska, Shilka, ZU-shku,

Modular weapons based on existing samples. We want to shoot, we install the Msta-S tracked module. Missiles are required, we install Iskander. We want to eat, we install field kitchens.

[UAZ 452]

This is already a naval analogue of the Yenisei armored train (you can watch the story about it on Zvezda, I recommend it).

[lopvlad]

Quote: Sergey3

But it’s not easier then to order a cheap barge

and for the maneuverability of the barge and the possibility of a quick transfer to the theater of operations, do you propose to put rowers on oars?

[Sergey3]

And to tie a torus to the deck with a bow, this is generally a super solution. If you want to shoot with a caliber - there is no air defense, there is air defense, there is no caliber or helicopter, some kind of disposable boat. A bigger barge, and a helicopter and air defense and calibers will fit there, and you can also put a target illumination radar from the S-400. This is me, I am developing further the creative thought of the super-developers of this watercraft.

[Corrosion inhibitor]

A photo of a brand new ship against the backdrop of a crooked house and rusty balconies is very "patriotic"!
It’s good that they didn’t hang panties with socks on clothespins there ... for a complete entourage.
It’s a pity that no one drinks beer there and doesn’t throw bottles down, otherwise it would be possible to shoot a video ...
Well, the ship is not bad, air defense is really needed now! But everything else - it would be better to cover it up with something ... since there was no other photo, against the background of the beach, for example ...?

[U_GOREC]

Quote: Corrosion_Inhibitor

A photo of a brand new ship against the backdrop of a crooked house and rusty balconies is very patriotic!

Is the photo of Mordashov’s yacht against the background of the Osrbnyaks more patriotic?

[Corrosion inhibitor]

You have only extremes. Either a photo of the latest technologies against the background of devastation, or a photo of yachts the size of a destroyer ... against the background of the causes of the same devastation ...
This and other people are watching. They believe in us. Maybe if you show that everything is not so disgusting with us, it will not be so disgusting for them to live in this world. Haven't thought about it?
I will support you with my only plus sign - maybe you will become smarter.

[Flooding]

Quote: Corrosion_Inhibitor

photo of yachts, the size of a corvette

What is there.
They write that Mordashov's Nord is 142 meters long.

[Corrosion inhibitor]

I have corrected the previous comment.

[Alexander Siberia mother]

Do you hope the house is built and the tree is planted? Do children study in an orthodox school or are they like Zelensky crosses?..

[Mordvin 3]

Quote: Corrosion_Inhibitor

Well, the ship is not bad,

And why is he good? That instead of a helicopter, you can hoist MANPADS on strings? And if you add a bath there, it will be even better, you get a bath ship of the fleet.

[Corrosion inhibitor]

The fact that he is, he is no longer bad - and that's good. And good is better than bad. Otherwise, you would have to roll the same Torahs on Dugongs all over the Black Sea. And not just around Serpent's Island.
Everything you want to say, I myself know. I have been interested in technology for a long time, almost all my life.

[Mordvin 3]

Quote: Corrosion_Inhibitor

The fact that he is, he is no longer bad - and that's good. And good is better than bad.

Timokhin and Klimov have already written articles about these undercorvettes here more than once. So your verdict: "At least there is something!"

[Corrosion inhibitor]

Exactly. And I already wrote in the previous comment why this is good.

[Mordvin 3]

Quote: Corrosion_Inhibitor

And I already wrote in the previous comment why this is good.

There is nothing good here.

[Corrosion inhibitor]

Time will tell now. Who shat where - including.

[Mordvin 3]

Quote: Corrosion_Inhibitor

Time will tell now. Who messed up where

It seems long.

[Corrosion inhibitor]

What do you want ? No one will do justice for you instead of you.
For too long we have been too indifferent to everything. All.
It is the Americans who can now say that there are bad Russians there. And it makes no sense for us to talk anymore. We will win in Ukraine. And then there will be one continuous out, and no one is preparing the youth for this again, again everyone is waiting. And what - they themselves do not know. That's where the trouble is.
Read V.I. Lenin if you don’t know when the landings will begin. It was also a troubled time then. All role models are now there. As is the way of thinking today.
Uncle Vova will end sooner or later, you can think about it if you have no time to read. Just think carefully, without the idiocy of the All-Russian.

[Mordvin 3]

Quote: Corrosion_Inhibitor

We will win in Ukraine.

And I doubt that we will win outright.

[Corrosion inhibitor]

Then there is nothing to worry about. Remember where Russia began. There are no trees without roots. Then we will all become clowns, like Zelensky, and perish like rootless plebeians. Why worry then? ... There will be a single beginning and a single end, no matter who hides farther, if we do not win.

[Nafanya from the sofa]

I already wrote the other day that this is "ratsuha". Placing a land complex on a ship is at least strange. Firstly, it has completely unsuitable corrosion resistance for working with salt water, and most importantly, radio waves propagate very differently over land and water surfaces. Completely different coefficients of absorption and reflection of a radio wave from the underlying surface. Roughly speaking, the locator can give completely distorted data at angles from 0 to 20-25 degrees from the surface. This can lead to "unpredictable consequences" and discredit the very idea.

[barclay]

Well, we have what we have. There is no time or opportunity for more. After the collapse of "Moscow" it is urgent to strengthen the naval air defense system.

[ism_ek]

Quote: Nafanya from the couch

Roughly speaking, the locator can give completely distorted data at angles from 0 to 20-25 degrees from the surface.

A bold statement))) Did you draw this conclusion based on the characteristics of the radar? In the decimeter range, the effects you write about can be neglected. The problem with TOR is that the maximum viewing angle is 64 degrees. He does not see his own purpose.

[Nafanya from the sofa]

In the decimeter range, the effects you write about can be neglected.

1. Thor works in the CENTIMETER range.
2. Thor uses a radio command guidance system
3. The effects of the "underlying surface" are determined by the diameter of the "Fresnel Zone" of the emitted pulse and depend on the frequency and range.
So these parameters are easy to calculate. And the neglect of interference interference can come out in some way. Checked.

[ism_ek]

Quote: Nafanya from the couch

Thor operates in the CENTIMETER range.

It's stupid to use capslock if you don't understand the essence of the process. Centimeter radio waves are practically not reflected from the water surface. What kind of interference? What is the Fresnel zone?
But it’s even worth counting whether the ship’s superstructure falls into the Fresnel zone

[Ablet]

And these ships were laid down in 2014 and 2016, when, logically, they were already preparing for war. What the hell are pirates when there are fascists in the Donbass. But the autonomy of navigation is already 60 days, and this is for the World Cup. Some kind of sabotage against the Black Sea Fleet.

[Scharnhorst]

[quote] and most importantly, radio waves propagate very differently over land and water surface [quote] When will you publish your Ph.D. thesis on this topic?
I agree that [quote] Placing a land complex on a ship is at least strange. [/ quote], but any air defense begins with 7/24 radar reconnaissance. If "Moscow" has already mishandled in this regard, then the "newest air defense corvette" will not pull from the word at all. And by the way, every crime must have a surname, name, patronymic! Who exactly made this decision? The author in the studio pliz ...

[Nafanya from the sofa]

When will you publish your PhD thesis on this topic?

On this topic, only doctoral dissertations have been written and defended so much that it is impossible to come up with a new one. You just need to know your specialty well.

[BEV]

And you do not allow the use of tori in torrential zones? On the coast? Covering naval bases and ports? It's all near and on the sea. Monsoons and trade winds carry this underlying surface quite far. Yes, and the Black Sea Fleet with its minimum salinity is not an indicator. Here in Primorye in the summer almost everywhere - air is half with water and nothing works.

[TerraSandera]

Tor bolted to the deck with caterpillars? The color is of course class, and the stealth contours of the hull continues.

[Garry Galler]

So he didn’t have caterpillars .... M-o-d-l-b-n-a-I this thing. Wherever you want, you put it there. At least to your home.

[Garry Galler]

at least for "small-tonnage vessels or use in a stationary version on the roofs of buildings and structures"

[TerraSandera]

But judging by the color, this specimen is clearly not marine. And most likely not adapted to the sea. Otherwise, why paint it green. Well, he looks like something on the deck .... Well, damn it, it’s superfluous or something, with all the emphasis on "stealth" In the contour of the hull.

[Vladimir61]

Someone spit loudly, but somewhere, apparently, they are thinking about the need to cover the amphibious assault, in the Odessa direction ...

[Alexander Migay]

Well it works!!! What are you yelling at?

[impostor]

Yes, it seems like a calm discussion, they yelled if roof rails were screwed to the government aurus and the BTR-82 combat module was put on them

[stirrer]

I wonder if there will be dead zones here due to the shape of the ship's hull and the location of the complex itself.

[alexmach]

will of course. Thor, even in a bare field, is not quite all-perspective. But it's better than nothing. Noticeably better.

[Russian Patriot]

How effective is a land-based air defense system on the deck of a ship?
Unlike land, there are waves at sea, reflections from the water surface, salt ... Therefore, real ship-based air defense systems are specially developed, not being banal land systems located on the deck.
Yes, and now how to take off and land a helicopter?
Not sure if this is an efficient solution.
More like trying to plug a hole in a barrel with your finger.

[Flooding]

Quote: RussianPatriot

real shipborne air defense systems are specially developed, not being banal land systems located on the deck

it is being developed, the marine version

The sixth and last ship of the Nikolai Sipyagin series is planned to be transferred to the fleet next year. with a new version of ship-based air defense systems.

but for now like this

[Alexey RA]

Quote: RussianPatriot

How effective is a land-based air defense system on the deck of a ship?
Unlike land, there are waves at sea, reflections from the water surface, salt ... Therefore, real ship-based air defense systems are specially developed, not being banal land systems located on the deck.

"Dome" in articles on the truly marine "Tor-MF" wrote that they worked out and tested the algorithms for this shipborne air defense system using Tor-M2KM.
Plus, the module itself was proposed by them, including for the rearmament of small ships.

Quote: RussianPatriot

Yes, and now how to take off and land a helicopter?

No way. Why does an air defense corvette need a search and rescue helicopter?
Others cannot be based on it - the corvette simply does not have an air armament cellar and an ASP lift.

[acetophenone]

Yes, how long can you publish this shame? Enough. Everyone understood everything. Once again, they messed up, and, as usual, no one is responsible for this.

[rus qup]

I think this is an ingenious solution. Put in the place where the helicopter should land and the modules with missiles should be installed with the most non-long-range air defense system. In and toga we have a ship that, in this form, does not reach the mrk pr.20800 karakurt. And I have a not modest question, how is it going to fight? I'm so fond of the gun. And on top of that, they are going to make a whole series of them. It's just "Kyu".

[Flooding]

Quote: rus qup

In and toga we have a ship that in this form does not reach the RTO pr.20800 karakurt

How can it live up to a missile corvette if it was designed and created as a patrol?

[ramzay21]

At first they built a ship with one gun. Now Thor was nailed to the heliport and the useless ship began to be proudly called the air defense corvette. Maybe on it somewhere else to nail the MLRS Hurricane and it will become an air defense attack corvette.
In order for it to develop 30 knots, it is necessary to fasten a couple of dozen outboard motors to it, and we will get not a fleet, but a circle of skillful hands.

[Alexey RA]

Quote: ramzay21

In order for it to develop 30 knots, it is necessary to fasten a couple of dozen outboard motors to it, and we will get not a fleet, but a circle of skillful hands.

Perfect solution. And most importantly - modular.

[next322]

In the Northern Design Bureau, the designers are not fools ..... they know how to work miracles

[Alex_Bora]

And yes, the main lobbyist of this project, Admiral Chirkov, after retirement, is listed as a deputy there.

[ramzay21]

Perfect solution. And most importantly - modular.

When the British and Americans meet such a modular ship that has no analogues in the world, they can crash into the shore, out of surprise

[impostor]

Perhaps, in this decision, which is not obvious at first glance, there is an answer to the question of how the Moscow was sunk

[Ryaruav]

and probably no money to repaint

[faiver]

no estimate...
now they will give the task to develop a nano-coating in the appropriate office with the appropriate funding ...

[highlight]

Quote: Sergey3

And it’s not easier then to order a cheap barge and tie a torus, beech, shell there. Cheap and cheerful than this expensive and worthless trough.

It was already The Simpsons, ugh, the Kriegsmarines 80 years ago in these same places. https://topwar.ru/190272-bystrohodnye-desantnye-barzhi-krigsmarine.html

[next322]

why drive the 5th ship from Zelenodolsk to Kerch unfinished? Is it really impossible to do everything at the factory and bring 5th and 6th along with regular tori for the next year, this year there is still no sense from these seiners ....

[faiver]

an ersatz craft, and it’s as if antigrav was invented for noise ....

[Alien From]

Nano-antigrav) and you can't see it.....only the red face sticks out around the corner, ugh!

[abc_alex]

So what? See. We take a civilian ship. We put Caliber-K a couple of containers, Buk as air defense and the tank is not a nose. And here is an auxiliary cruiser for you. :)
All in all, it's a good idea, in my opinion. If there is a poorly armed ship, then why shouldn't we use the existing systems to rearm it? Seriously.
There would be another container with Corlibre to attach ...

[highlight]

the problem is that such a ship cannot get target designation for calibers because there is no radar of its own, and we still don’t seem to have an analogue of link16. He will only be able to shoot at the ground at the given coordinates like, God forgive me, brawler.
Or, on the basis of the hull of an ocean seiner, assemble a patrol plane corvette with a good HAK, a helicopter hangar, an “answer” missile launcher under the plane, which is no air defense from a shell and a 76 mm gun. Well, you can also fasten a package of onyxes for self-defense.
Cheap, fast with great autonomy and seaworthiness.

[abc_alex]

Quote: clou

the problem is that such a ship cannot get target designation for calibers because there is no radar of its own

Well, you screwed up here. With the ranges of Caliber and a normal ship, it does not always shine on its own to give them a control center.
There is a digital data transmission system in the troops. Even for Tunguska implemented. Iskander has it too. Whether she is in the Navy, I don't know.

[UAZ 452]

It's amazing what happens - fishing seiners and self-propelled barges are better suited for military operations at sea (provided that weapons are installed, of course) than those originally designed and built as warships, on which these same weapons are stubbornly not installed. Paradox!

[Alexey RA]

Quote: abc_alex

If there is a poorly armed ship, then why shouldn't we use the existing systems to rearm it?

Because the same people who put the Tor-M2KM land module on the ship have been telling us for the last eight years about the super-duper modular ship, which in which case you can arm as you like - and he will be both a Swiss, and a reaper, and a gambler on the pipe.
And when it came down to it, it turned out that for eight years the Navy and the industry did not do nichrome, and when this very thing came in which case, then the ship will have to go into battle unarmed - with one gun and MANPADS. But now they are giving out an army module bolted to a helipad as a great achievement - taking advantage of the fact that few people understand the difference between standardized modules for 22160 and a universal modular land-based air defense system.

[abc_alex]

Quote: Alexey RA

Because the same people who put the Tor-M2KM land module on the ship,

Oh no. The developers have been working on this thing for 10 years already and claim that it is messed up. Moreover, its characteristics are higher than those of the land.

Quote: Alexey RA

And when it came down to it, it turned out that for eight years the Navy and the nichrome industry did not do

What surprises you? Our naval commanders are broad-minded people. They do not need their own, they will buy on the market. Though diesels, even modules. :) And industrial ... But why the heck does the industry contact a customer who has a new one for ... b, and the series is good if it is 5 pieces. Well, what place did it rest against? I think that in our case, the seared military complexes are the only thing that shines for our fleet in the short term. Until the admirals learn to order large series.

[Alexey RA]

Quote: abc_alex

Oh no. The developers have been working on this thing for 10 years already and claim that it is messed up. Moreover, its characteristics are higher than those of the land.

Nope. A seared "Thor" is a "Tor-MF".
And "Tor-M2KM" is an ersatz for the poor, an air defense system that can install on the ship if it is locked up, but there is nothing else, and which was not created specifically for the TTT of the Navy. With the same success, sailors can drive an army "Buk" into the helipad instead of a normal "Shtil" - and declare it a victory in the best style of our neighbors.

Quote: abc_alex

And industrial ... But why the heck is the industry to contact a customer who has a new one for ... b, and the series is good if it is 5 pieces. Well, what place did it rest against?

Well, yes, I got excited about the promotions - they did make "Tor-MF", moreover, on their own initiative, without an order from the Moscow Region. But the native MO does not cease to "please":

The performance specification for the development of the ship-based Tor-MF air defense system, unified with the land-based Tor-M2 air defense system, was approved by the Russian Defense Minister in 2017. However for a number of reasons, up to now, the Ministry of Defense has not concluded a state contract with the developer of the Tor-MF air defense system (JSC IEMZ Kupol).

© 26.08.2021. IEMZ "Kupol" on its own initiative developed a draft design of the Tor-MF air defense system.

[RUSSIAN_Ksyusha]

Well, yes. First, they built absolutely incompetent troughs for the FSB, which the FSB refused. Then they were deprived of the opportunity to somehow defend themselves by installing a land-based version of the anti-aircraft missile system on the stern. But when they were building it was just necessary to think that the ship needed the necessary self-defense, including self-defense from air strikes. That even such a ship should have its own air defense, but there is generally silence about anti-submarine weapons. It's easy to sink it. Now they are feverishly trying to get out somehow, there is no other way to call it.

[wladimirjankov]

We do this in everything at first, and then we think why we did it.

[certero]

After the words, an air defense system was installed and you imagine that the corvette has undergone modernization and a new modern system has been introduced to it.
In reality, they simply put a land thing on the stern, which is probably not an integrated ship control system.
It is clear that at least something needs to be done after the shameful death of the flagship, but it also needs to be described a little differently.

[UAZ 452]

The Zvezda TV channel will also film a patriotic story on the topic of this modernization. In continuation of a series of stories about the "unique and technologically advanced" armored train "Yenisei".

[Foundling]

Only recently there was an article about ukrov armored crafts, but we also have something to answer. Our answer to aejisu. I think it’s even indecent to recall the once large-scale tasks of confronting aircraft carrier groups in the current state of our fleet. And it seems that "galoshes" were not produced in the USSR at all. Sad

[UAZ 452]

Well, in fairness, the fleet of that country in real life also never encountered the American Navy, and it is far from certain that the result of such a collision would be very different from the Tsushima battle.

[next322]

MOSCOW, 15 June. /TASS/. The Russian Navy will abandon an additional series of six patrol ships (corvettes) of project 22160 due to the discrepancy between their tactical and technical characteristics of the combat conditions of use. This was reported to TASS on Wednesday by a source in the military-industrial complex.

"The series of project 22160 patrol ships will not be continued and will end with the delivery of the last corvette of the series to the Black Sea Fleet next year," the agency's interlocutor said, noting that the customer intends to abandon the additional six units of project 22160 due to their tactical and technical qualities being inconsistent with combat operating conditions.

He explained that military sailors are not quite satisfied with the characteristics and equipment of corvettes tested during their combat use - insufficient seaworthiness, light armor and vulnerability of power plants, as well as weak anti-aircraft weapons.

[riwas]

There were pictures of the patrol ship "Pavel Derzhavin" project 22160 with the installed air defense system "Tor-M2KM"

Not to fat, to be alive. The most effective air defense system to repel an anti-ship missile attack.

[Dikson]

... "I blinded him from what was." .. (c) Alena Apina ..

[certero]

Quote: UAZ 452

Well, in fairness, the fleet of that country in real life also never encountered the American Navy, and it is far from certain that the result of such a collision would be very different from the Tsushima battle.

There really were no hostilities between the fleets, but there was a confrontation between the Soviet Mediterranean squadron and the American aircraft carrier group in 1973. At the same time, the Americans themselves assessed the situation as a stalemate because they had nothing to repel the blow of our cruise missiles. yes, the planes taking off from the American aircraft carrier would quite possibly have sunk ours later, but they would have nowhere to return. our ships were constantly in close proximity to the American ones, tracking the activity of those and were ready to strike at the American fleet at any moment.
Now try doing something like this now.
By the way, the same Falklands crisis showed that it is not at all so easy to repel cruise missile strikes. but what would happen with the reflection of supersonic Soviet cruise missiles is absolutely unknown. It is quite possible that they could not reflect in any way

[JD1979]

In! Here is also a saddle on a cow looks. Gross and useless.