“Fictitious court”: the US State Department and the British Foreign Office comment on the death sentence in the DPR to foreign mercenaries

In the West, they began to comment on the death sentence imposed on three foreign mercenaries by the Supreme Court of the DPR. As reported by "Military Review", the death sentence was passed against the British Aiden Aslin, Sean Pinner, as well as against the Moroccan Saadoun Brahim. They were called guilty under several articles of the Criminal Code of the Donetsk People's Republic, including articles on preparation for terrorist activities and mercenarism.

The verdict is commented by the US State Department. Secretary of State Anthony Blinken said that "the United States is seriously concerned about the death penalty for foreign nationals." According to Blinken, "the lawsuit is regarded as a sham." An interesting logic: the war crimes of mercenaries from Britain and Morocco, their participation in hostilities were not fictitious, but the court, you see, is considered fictitious in the United States. But what does the DNR care about the opinion of Blinken and the state he represents...

Blinken:

We call on Russia and its satellites to respect international humanitarian law, to provide protection to prisoners of war, which are citizens of Morocco and Britain, as they served in the Armed Forces of Ukraine.

Almost completely repeated the words of her American colleague and British Foreign Minister Liz Truss. According to her, London regards the trial and sentence as "fictitious". I wonder if this means that London will also consider the death penalty as such to be “fictitious” as a result?

British Daily Mail:

Aslyn's mother Ang Wood learned of the barbaric verdict while watching TV news at the family home in Newark, Nottinghamshire. The family is devastated. They met with representatives of the Ukrainian Embassy in London and demanded that their relative be treated with respect. She called on the British government to bring her son home. According to a government source, such a process could exacerbate the situation.

And when he went to kill people, didn’t this cause reflection in the family? Why didn't the militant's mother knock on the doors of the Ukrainian embassy and the British government then?..

Comments

[Vladimir_2U]

If at least one civilian died at their hands, then there is no doubt that they deserved the highest measure!

[Aerodrome]

“Fictitious court”: the US State Department and the British Foreign Office comment on the death sentence in the DPR of a foreign mercenary

it's a fictitious marriage between you and ukraine

[tihonmarine]

Quote: Aerodrome

it's a fictitious marriage between you and ukraine

Ukraine, USA, Britain - they have a same-sex marriage.

[KAV]

Aslin's mother Ang Wood found out about the barbaric verdict

And this "mother" did not try to dissuade her offspring from going to kill people? That war, or "safari", but what's the difference ?! He was driving kill people!!! Well, if you get caught, it's your own fault. Get ready for the harshest outcome! That's what he got! So, arrogant Saxons and fshashniks, shut up already and be silent in a rag! Moreover, when our fighters who were taken prisoner were bullied, these nonhumans were not even heard! Hypocritical [censored]!!!!!

[hector]

Quote: KAV

And this "mother" did not try to dissuade her offspring from going to kill people? That war, or "safari", but what's the difference ?! He went to kill people!!!

What a nuisance! We went on a safari in Russians, but the soldiers of fortune didn’t get lucky, they themselves became game. It happens

[Lionnvrsk]

Quote: Aerodrome

it's a fictitious marriage between you and ukraine

Like everything else in Ukraine. And fictitious wins, and Mriya, and history, and the clown-president, and independence, like UGIL itself !!

[EMMM]

I believe that the rope on which they will hang out will be declared fictitious by the Western press

[Ross xnumx]

Quote: tihonmarine

Ukraine, USA, Britain - they have a same-sex marriage.

Quote: Aerodrome

it's a fictitious marriage between you and ukraine

They don’t have a marriage, but a contract in which, after a “divorce”, Ukraine is left with a bare ass and all in debt, like in silks.

[riwas]

If at least one civilian died at their hands, then there is no doubt that they deserved the highest measure!

In wartime, a military tribunal without the right to appeal is due. Let them say thank you for giving him a month.

[Civil]

Not so long ago, our prisoner of war was "sentenced" in Kyiv to life imprisonment. And here in the DPR, prisoners of war were sentenced to a tower.\
I believe that any such trials of prisoners of war before the cessation of hostilities is a manifestation of intemperance in relation to captured military personnel. Everyone understands that by shooting prisoners of war - you can get a similar step from the other side. Probably, there is no need to get excited and approach such complex double-edged issues in a balanced way.

[Egoza]

Quote: Civil

And here in the DPR, prisoners of war were sentenced to a tower.\

Don't manipulate the facts. Not prisoners of war, but mercenaries! These are "two big differences", as they say in Odessa.

[Civil]

Quote: Egoza

Quote: Civil

And here in the DPR, prisoners of war were sentenced to a tower.\

Don't manipulate the facts. Not prisoners of war, but mercenaries! These are "two big differences", as they say in Odessa.

They are all combatants, then explain the difference between mercenaries and "musicians"? Between contractors and "musicians". Between "musicians" and "blackwater" in Syria.

[1976AG]

Persons arriving in Ukraine for the purpose of participating in hostilities for a monetary reward are mercenaries. What else needs to be explained?

[Civil]

Quote: 1976AG

Persons arriving in Ukraine for the purpose of participating in hostilities for a monetary reward are mercenaries. What else needs to be explained?

Can you be more specific, if our "musicians" are shot for these scoundrels and scoundrels of mercenaries, will this also be correct?

[Dilettante grandfather]

Are you saying that there are Russian musicians in Ukrainian captivity? Any soldier and citizen of his country, fighting as a soldier of his army, in captivity can count on the Geneva Convention. Anyone who comes to fight in a foreign country, for a monetary reward, is a mercenary. Mercenaries do not have the right to be treated like prisoners of war, as recognized by the international community. Mercenary is a bandit. And they will be treated accordingly, despite the ooh-ahs of the United States or England. And if the Ukrainians shoot (and this has been going on for a long time, bullying and executions of captured military personnel) of ours, in response to the execution of mercenaries, then everyone involved, no doubt, will be found and will be judged. Some of these non-humans are already in captivity. And they will definitely answer for their crimes.

[1976AG]

"Can you be more specific, if our "musicians" are shot for these scoundrels and scoundrels of mercenaries, will this also be correct?"

Firstly, I don’t know who you call musicians, and secondly, don’t you see the difference between soldiers of fortune who come from abroad to cut dough and hunt people and those who defend their land? If you do not understand even such simple things, then, excuse me, what is there to talk about with you at all?

[Dart]

You, namesake, do not see the difference in nature or are you pretending?

[Civil]

Quote: Dart

You, namesake, do not see the difference in nature or are you pretending?

So far there has been only one answer "who fights for money" that mercenary. Then there was an offer that in a foreign country. Speaking patriotically, everyone who fights against Russia and at the same time receives money is a mercenary. That is, local Nazis who do not fight for money are not mercenaries? Do they have their own country? Is there such a country as Ukraine? Are you sure about this? But what about the article of the Criminal Code of the Russian Federation? Not so simple.
In my understanding, it doesn't matter. Mercenaries, Azov, Vushniks are all one illegal gang in the temporarily occupied territory of the former Ukrainian SSR. Thus, they are either all prisoners of war or all detained suspects for participation in illegal armed groups. From this is another fact. Our prisoners are hostages of ukrov bandits.

[Mountain shooter]

Quote: Civil

? Are you sure about this? But what about the article of the Criminal Code of the Russian Federation? Not so simple.
In my understanding, it doesn't matter.

Are you sure that the "Wagnerites" have monetary contracts for these military operations? What if they are volunteers? And accordingly design? Well, the last. So far, NOT A SINGLE Wagnerian has been taken prisoner. Or have ukrovoinov opposite them the gut is thin. Or guys, in principle, do not surrender.

[Fitter65]

Quote: Civil

if for these scoundrels and scoundrels of mercenaries, our "musicians" will be shot, will this also be correct?

And your musicians, cooks and bus drivers are still waiting for the court. They are still being investigated. And what is the difference between a mercenary and a contract serviceman, read the law and international law everything is written there.

[skeptic]

Quote: Civil

Can you be more specific, if our "musicians" are shot for these scoundrels and scoundrels of mercenaries, will this also be correct?

The brutal murders of our prisoners of war "do not interfere" with feeding prisoners in the LDNR with porridge and your "messiahism". The hype surrounding the death sentence of mercenaries will slow down many lovers of "safari".

[Ross xnumx]

Quote: Civil

All of them combatants, then explain the difference between mercenaries and "musicians"?

Stop talking crap! Are you sane and sane? There are not just mercenaries here, but FOREIGN citizens who decided to “kill a little” Russian speakers for money. And there is no fault of the Russian speakers that they will do the same, but for free, in accordance with the law. These "noble" Englishmen forgot:

Two types of "devil's wind" are known: when a cannonball was fired from a cannon and when a condemned man was killed by a blank charge of gunpowder. In the first case, death occurred almost instantly, in the second, the executed with a broken spine and torn entrails could agonize for some more time. In both cases, the body of the executed was a bloody mess with limbs separated from the body, and even the head. When executed with a cannonball, the heads are guaranteed to come off the body and, according to the description of the Russian artist Vasily Vereshchagin, "fly upward in a spiral."

[hagen]

Quote: Egoza

Not prisoners of war, but mercenaries! These are two big differences

According to Art. 47 (2) of the first Additional Protocol[9] to the Geneva Conventions, signed in 1977. A mercenary is a person who:
- specially recruited locally or abroad in order to fight in an armed conflict;
-actually takes direct part in hostilities;
- takes part in hostilities motivated primarily by the desire for personal gain, and who is in fact promised by or on behalf of a party to the conflict a material reward substantially in excess of that promised or paid to combatants of the same rank and functions entering the to the personnel of the armed forces of this party;
- is neither a national of a party to the conflict nor a permanent resident in territory controlled by a party to the conflict;
-not included in the personnel of the armed forces of a party to the conflict;
- not sent by a state that is not a party to the conflict to perform duties as a member of its armed forces.
By virtue of this definition, if these three are granted citizenship, and they are enrolled in the staff of the active units of the Armed Forces of Ukraine, then questions on the case will be mandatory. On the other hand, combatants also bear criminal responsibility for intentional crimes against persons designated in the 1949 Geneva Conventions. Here, from the point of view of legal conflicts, there is simply an immense scope for disputes and interpretations. It is not so easy to prove the entire list of corpus delicti, especially in terms of the objective and subjective sides ... Although we do not have a complete array of data on criminal cases today. What the judge considered, we will not know soon.

[Machito]

Quote: Hagen

Quote: Egoza

Not prisoners of war, but mercenaries! These are two big differences

According to Art. 47 (2) of the first Additional Protocol[9] to the Geneva Conventions, signed in 1977. A mercenary is a person who:
- specially recruited locally or abroad in order to fight in an armed conflict;
-actually takes direct part in hostilities;
- takes part in hostilities motivated primarily by the desire for personal gain, and who is in fact promised by or on behalf of a party to the conflict a material reward substantially in excess of that promised or paid to combatants of the same rank and functions entering the to the personnel of the armed forces of this party;
- is neither a national of a party to the conflict nor a permanent resident in territory controlled by a party to the conflict;
-not included in the personnel of the armed forces of a party to the conflict;
- not sent by a state that is not a party to the conflict to perform duties as a member of its armed forces.
By virtue of this definition, if these three are granted citizenship, and they are enrolled in the staff of the active units of the Armed Forces of Ukraine, then questions on the case will be mandatory. On the other hand, combatants also bear criminal responsibility for intentional crimes against persons designated in the 1949 Geneva Conventions. Here, from the point of view of legal conflicts, there is simply an immense scope for disputes and interpretations. It is not so easy to prove the entire list of corpus delicti, especially in terms of the objective and subjective sides ... Although we do not have a complete array of data on criminal cases today. What the judge considered, we will not know soon.

Ukrovermacht commercials will assign Ukrainian citizenship to all mercenaries. Will they stop being mercenaries from this? If in Russian it’s not boom-boom, it means a mercenary: against the wall.
Judgment is efficient!
There is no need to hurry with the execution. Let them sit on death row. Execution is too humane an execution for ghouls. You have to hang.

[hagen]

Quote: Bearded

Ukrovermacht commercials will assign Ukrainian citizenship to all mercenaries. Will they stop being mercenaries from this?

I am not trying to predict what Ukraine will do. I'm just trying to analyze a little, within the framework of the information available, the possibilities for disputes between different parties who disagree with each other.

Quote: Bearded

If in Russian it’s not boom-boom, it means a mercenary: against the wall.
Judgment is efficient!

Then why all this litigation? They could be placed against the wall and at the place of captivity. It's just that Putin is a lawyer. He works for the long term, already cleared of emotions. And then the issue of exact (relatively accurate, with possible flaws) compliance with all rules of law will be of paramount importance. Exactly for this reason, in order not to drive oneself into a corner, they decided to hold the trial within the state jurisdiction of the DPR, and not Russia. In a year, the DPR will no longer exist, and with it the relevance of possible claims of some deviations of the DPR’s actions from officially recognized norms will also disappear. It's just that these deviations should not be too large. Everything is simple....

[Storog dvornik]

I will support you...

In a year, the DPR will no longer exist, and with it the relevance of possible claims of some deviations of the DPR’s actions from officially recognized norms will also disappear.

The West is well aware of this. And what will it be problematic for the Russian Federation to present if the sentence is executed ... And the reputation of the Anglo-Saxons and Ukrainians will receive a resounding slap in the face ...

[Reptiloid]

Execution --- too humane execution for ghouls. Need to hang.

Do not hang, but pierce with an aspen stake! Let them sit and suffer! In addition, it is very clear and demonstrative. Let everyone know what the service on the side of the Nazis leads to!

[General70]

Sometimes the expectation of execution is worse than the execution itself.

[-Paul-]

So already... Ukrainian passports are urgently distributed to mercenaries.

[Adler77]

In Russian, two of them fully understand one, so he speaks fluently in general.
I don't think they need to be executed, it's better to sell them.
In fact, there is no difference, + - one battle den, send them to Siberia for life. Then someday he can change for someone else.
The death penalty of these mercenaries, who are essentially infantry, have not been noticed in anything that would violate the generally accepted rules of war, will bring image losses.
At the same time, this is unlikely to stop other mercenaries, since every mercenary understands that he can be killed.

[Vitaly.17]

Quote: Egoza

Not prisoners of war, but mercenaries!

Even if a prisoner of war, the legal concepts of a war crime and genocide in relation to residents and civilians also imply the highest measure. In fact, all Ukrainian authorities and their Western sponsors fall under this charge. But a start has been made, and "the elephant needs to be eaten in parts."

[Nikoha2010]

Elena ! The main thing is that the back would not be included!
PS I have relatives in Odessa and they want Goncharenko to hang upside down on Profsoyuznaya until he escapes.

[Kolobochok]

Which side did they become prisoners of war?

[North Caucasus]

Everyone understands that by shooting prisoners of war - you can get a similar step from the other side.

Who is this about? About the Ukrainian military? Who's been sentenced here? Citizens of Ukraine? Military of Ukraine? Or foreign murderers and sadists? What do international laws say about this with citizens of other countries? Or can you go to another country to kill the inhabitants of this country there and you will get nothing for it?

[Olga Filina]

You are absolutely right in your outrage. The main thing is that in relation to these two-legged skunks, the sentence should be carried out. Anyone - at least they shot him, at least they hanged him, at least they sent him to serve a life sentence (preferably beyond the Arctic Circle - this will be especially "pleasant" for a Moroccan). No exchanges and pardons! Then it will really serve as a lesson to others.

[Vladimir_2U]

Quote: Civil

Not so long ago, our prisoner of war was "sentenced" in Kyiv to life imprisonment.

The reason for this was the alleged "murder of a civilian", and even on the orders of the commander, allegedly. Those. a war crime, albeit based on a lie. These same foreigners, even rejecting accusations of mercenarism, simply earned themselves a tower as war criminals.

[hagen]

Quote: Civil

Everyone understands that by shooting prisoners of war - you can get a similar step from the other side

I think it was no coincidence that they were given a month to appeal and pardon (most likely they will use it, if they admitted all the charges at the trial). I think that in a month the sentence will not be brought into effect. They will carry out some procedural measures, but in fact there will be a "political bargaining", which they will try not to advertise much.

[General70]

Three mercenaries is not the number because of which the Russian Federation, LPR, DPR should take a steam bath. Because in relation to Russian prisoners of war, the Ukronazis and the Ukrovermacht still do not use the provisions of the Geneva Convention

[hagen]

Quote: General70

Three mercenaries is not the number because of which the Russian Federation, LPR, DPR should be steamed

You're not right. Here the quantity does not matter at all. Even one should be condemned so that everything corresponds to the documents that we signed. This is the principle of the primacy of law. As for the Ukrainian leaders who did not want to comply with the conventions they signed, this will be a demand from them. They hope for protection from the US. Time will tell how this will be implemented in the future. Passions subside, emotions subside. Only the facts will remain in history. And they will not be in favor of the Kyiv authorities. Our children should not be ashamed of our actions.

[General70]

I probably agree with you, I wanted that for Russians and for those Russians who live outside Russia for some reason, they are mercenaries who are not subject to any moral justification. But in fact they had Ukrainian passports and legitimately served in the Armed Forces of Ukraine. From the point From the point of view of the West, their trial will not be legitimate until the DPR and LPR are internationally recognized. Here is such a legal casuistry.

[Skif]

Not those figures for bargaining. And not figures at all. Yes, small pawns. These should be indicative ... For bargaining, there are probably larger fish.

[hagen]

Quote: Skif

Not those figures for bargaining. And not figures at all. Yes, small pawns.

It is your opinion. The British have a different opinion ... It happens.

[ocean969]

For especially "civilians" these are not prisoners of war, these are mercenaries.

[MakStVik]

They are not prisoners of war, they are MERCENES. Do not confuse. They came to earn extra money, and now there is no need to whine.

[krops777]

Not so long ago, our prisoner of war was "sentenced" in Kyiv to life imprisonment.

Not so long ago, several hundred Ukrainian prisoners of war were fed, provided with all medical care and sent home without any courts, instead, the Kyiv junta staged reprisals against our military captured. Personally, I think that the conversation with mercenaries should be short, a military tribunal on the spot and execution without this legal hype.

[alex-cn]

for me, with such - no ships ... as they decided during the capture, so immediately to the side ... and disappeared without a trace. They knew, I think, where they were going. Such an attitude will immediately reduce the number of applicants.

[Taimen]

A disgusting word is pacifism.

[Looking for]

you shouldn't worry so much. It is unlikely that the sentence will be carried out. Most likely, the sentenced will become a "bargaining chip" in political bargaining. But a weighty "coin"!.

[gsev]

Quote: Egoza

Not so long ago, our prisoner of war was "sentenced" in Kyiv to life imprisonment. And here in the DPR, prisoners of war were sentenced to a tower.\

It is more useful to shoot this trinity indicatively. If they are released, then there will be an incentive for the rest of the sadists to go to Ukraine for safe adventures. In the event of execution or abuse of our prisoners, it is necessary to shoot significant punishers from the Kolomoisky guard. The death of the twin neo-Nazis will force other punishers to limit the power of the Kolomoisky-Zelensky and take steps to make their fate more secure and return the rules of war to a civilized channel.

[Snail N9]

Emotions, emotions. And if we discard emotions, then ... In the West, they rely on the fact that the LPR and DPR are not recognized as states and, accordingly, the jurisdiction of their court is not recognized. Therefore, if the sentence is carried out after the trial, it will be regarded as a murder with all the consequences. In addition, due to the uncertain status of the special operation, "martial law" cannot be applied to these people. If they have committed a crime, then they must be judged by the court of the state in whose territory they committed it. Formally, they have always been on the territory of Ukraine and therefore they should be judged by a Ukrainian court. But Ukraine has no claims against them. Here is such an unpleasant legal incident formed. And, we must admit again not in our direction. There is already hysteria in the West about Russians who do not follow the rules of the law. I do not know to whom and why it was necessary to organize this court. They would slap them quietly and that's all and show the corpses, like that's what awaits, mercenaries. Simple and instructive. And now, another anti-Russian hysteria is unwinding in the West about this.

[Vladimir_2U]

Quote: Snail N9

There is already hysteria in the West about Russians who do not follow the rules of the law.

And is it really that bad? Fewer creatures will climb against us.

Quote: Snail N9

I do not know to whom and why it was necessary to organize this court.

First of all, a message to ukrovoyaks, artillery musicians, I think so.

[Woodman]

Quote: Snail N9

I do not know to whom and why it was necessary to organize this court. They would slap them quietly and that's all and show the corpses, like that's what awaits, mercenaries. Simple and instructive.

Mercenaries are "slapped" successfully and even, one might say, en masse. In this case, I agree with this opinion.

Quote: Hagen

in fact, there will be a "political bargaining", which they will try not to advertise much.

Bargaining will go either for "political" concessions, or for an exchange for our prisoners.

Quote: Snail N9

And now, another anti-Russian hysteria is unwinding in the West about this.

It's time to get used to and not pay attention to other people's tantrums. Russia has its own interests and they are more important than the opinion of Western "non-partners".

[Bolt cutter]

unwinds another anti-Russian hysteria in the West

BBCs in their news paid more attention to the trial of those who stormed the White House in the USA than to these pretzels. They showed, of course, a frustrated mamzel, those in a cage in court, they said that the court "was not recognized." For good, give them a wad and let them become pederasts and listen to the barking of shepherd dogs. And they remember the taste of York ale, drinking chifir on the blades. Now the Ukrainians will not get out of it - the Victory is clearly visible, and not the paramoga, and even the most repulsed censors have begun to understand this.

[DymOk_v_dYmke]

Quote: Snail N9

They would slap them quietly and that's all and show the corpses, like that's what awaits, mercenaries.

Think strange.
In this case, it would be necessary to "slap on the quiet" also all the witnesses to their capture.
To guarantee non-disclosure.
So there is no need to call for extrajudicial "spanking".

[General70]

I agree with you comrade

[gsev]

Quote: Snail N9

Therefore, if the sentence is carried out after the trial, it will be regarded as a murder with all the consequences.

In human culture, no one condemned revenge for crimes against your loved ones. Greater condemnation has always deserved the permissiveness of murderers and rapists and the fear of risk when trying to punish them. Where the state does not protect your rights, you have the right to protect them yourself. No one in their hearts condemns the inhabitants of the Warsaw ghetto who treacherously raised an uprising against the government of the Nazis and suddenly killed the guards of this ghetto. I think both the British elite and the government will retain respect for us and our government only if this trinity is exponentially shot. Otherwise, we will be considered masochists from which ropes can be twisted.

[Anachoret]

If Blinkin has a legal education)) then it is certainly fictitious))
A foreign mercenary a priori cannot be a "prisoner of war" in a third country) he is tried on the status of "terrorist" and, according to the verdict, he can get a bullet completely "not fictitious"))

[Vladimir_2U]

Quote: Anchorite

If Blinkin has a legal education)) then it is certainly fictitious))

Knowledge of the geography of western Ilita hints... Although specifically Blinkin is seasoned.

[Bolt cutter]

foreign mercenary

Purely technically, these stupid - not mercenaries - they have long Ukrainian passports in hand.

[Reptiloid]

... the court is fictitious ....

Ha ha ha! In a country where the long dead and buried voted for the president! Let them not worry! The ropes will be real!

[Andrey Moskvin]

Hang, but at the request of the family - with respect.

[TANKa]

"The trial is fictitious", the verdict is real and I really hope that it will be executed!!!

[Nexcom]

As long as they are not exchanged .... Although the lives of our servicemen are certainly more valuable than the much natural and justified desire to shoot these freaks for their deeds.

[North Caucasus]

Well, based on humane considerations, they can, of course, exchange or replace the execution with a prison cell. After the war, not all of them were shot and hanged. Many were imprisoned and then released.

[Nexcom]

They released those whose hands were not covered in blood up to the elbow and when they plowed at construction sites, restoring what they had destroyed. The last German prisoner of war left the USSR (if I'm not mistaken) in 1952-53. So again - these were prisoners of war, not mercenaries. The policemen and other shushara were tried very quickly and pulled up with rare exceptions.

[North Caucasus]

If all the policemen were pulled up, where did the marches of veterans come from on the outskirts and near the Baltic states? Have you resurrected?

[Nexcom]

Where did I write that ABSOLUTELY EVERYONE was pulled up? If you are talking about the "veterans" of the OUN-UPA, then Khrushchev did not let them finish things and gave them amnesty. As for the Baltic states - the same story. Amnestied all the rest. Moreover, there was a ban on raising questions about the atrocities of the Ukrainians and the Balts - such as fraternal peoples within the Union Republics of the USSR, no way to sow interethnic hatred. Everything fell on the Germans. Such was the policy of the CPSU then under the leadership of Khrushchev.

[North Caucasus]

The policemen and other shushara were tried very quickly and pulled up with rare exceptions.

Where did I write that ABSOLUTELY EVERYONE was pulled up?

Not for butting.

[Revolver]

Quote: North Caucasus

If all the policemen were pulled up, where did the marches of veterans come from on the outskirts and near the Baltic states? Have you resurrected?

No, they managed to dump them in the West, where they pretended to be innocent sheep. Like, I carried buckets of water to the kitchen for the entire current service and peeled potatoes. Since there was no particular desire to check such stories in the West, it often rolled. And there they waited for the end of the USSR. Well, the new government of these spratlands gave them a triumphant return.
As for the Galitsians, questions to Stalin. It was he who canceled the tower in 1947, and they began to give 25 to the caught Bandera. And then Khrushch indiscriminately amnestied them all in 1953.

[Nexcom]

Yes you are right. I forgot to mention those who dumped in Canada and Argentina. The paradox is that they dumped them in the USA (they retreated with the Germans together and surrendered to the amers, asked them to protect them from the NKVD - like they would be indiscriminately accused and hanged there), but the USA did not extradite them, citing the fact that the types of accusations were not confirmed. Of course, these were isolated cases, but they were.

zy Mossad in such cases resolved issues "privately" regardless of the country where the "client" was located. They were later found dead under incomprehensible and then unclear circumstances. And the statute of limitations didn't matter.

[North Caucasus]

Yes, Khrushchev himself was that type. How he came to power is shrouded in darkness. But evil tongues say that over the corpses. Relative to the current outskirts. They talk about the oppression of the Russian occupiers. But Khrushchev and Brezhnev seemed to be from the outskirts. And who then oppressed them? Today they talk about the atrocities of the Russian Army. But sorry! And what are the military outskirts doing? How the story resonates. Hold the thief, the thief himself screams the loudest!

[Zamira]

Quote: Nagan

No, they managed to dump them in the West, where they pretended to be innocent sheep.

Judging by the current situation, we can conclude that they didn’t pretend to be anyone, but were accepted there with open arms in their real incarnation. This is the long game.

[Bolt cutter]

the Balts?

A lot of people fled to Scandinavia on boats (there are a lot of fishermen in the Baltic states and they knew how to walk around the Baltic). There were also those who, together with the Germans, withdrew and remained in the west. And in 91 they returned. Something like this.

[Aerodrome]

I am not bloodthirsty, but I think such a precedent is needed, to execute, so that the rest will think.

[Nexcom]

I absolutely agree with you. At least once - NECESSARY.
Do you think if they had a similar opportunity - they would not have taken advantage of it or what? Yes, please! They would also trumpet all over the world.

Others need to understand retribution is inevitable for their deeds.

[Shkworen]

the Moroccan still has a chance for an exchange, since his father is a Moroccan general of pro-Russian views :)

[Nexcom]

and how did the pro-Russian dad-general raise such a child and let him become a mercenary???

[Shkworen]

this is another question, but I myself am in favor of putting everyone against the wall and a bullet in the forehead, so that others would be discouraged :)

[duschman80-81]

[/ quote] And when he went to kill people, didn’t this cause reflection in the family? [quote]

[Leshak]

They got what they deserved. And it doesn’t matter if the court is fictitious or not, the main thing is the real verdict!

[tatarin1972]

That's just not necessary, the court is fictitious, the world community is concerned. Everyone knows everything.

[North Caucasus]

Well, the fact that they are concerned is good. I am glad of their concern! It was unpleasant when Russia expressed concern. Let them get an answer and more!

[Torins]

I wonder what they expected? That captured mercenaries will be sent by private plane to the White House to receive a medal? This will be a lesson for everyone who wants to cash in on someone else's grief!

[couch]

shoot publicly and immediately! then, maybe, the West will understand and feel all the dirty tricks of its presence in the Donbass

[Revolver]

Quote from sofa

shoot publicly and immediately! then, maybe, the West will understand and feel all the dirty tricks of its presence in the Donbass

If I remember correctly, war criminals, according to the precedent of the Nuremberg trials and subsequent trials of the Nazis, are supposed to hang. As far as I remember, in the USSR there was no hanging as a way of carrying out a sentence in the legislation. Nevertheless, for many Nazis and their accomplices, instead of the Soviet norm (execution), the norms of international law were applied, i.e. hanging.

[Krasnoyarsk]

= We call on Russia and its satellites to respect international humanitarian law, to provide protection to prisoners of war, which are citizens of Morocco and Britain, since they served in the Armed Forces of Ukraine. =
Even a Martian can serve in the Armed Forces of Ukraine, but this does not make him an inhabitant of the Earth and a citizen of the Outskirts. Do these dummies have an Outskirts passport? No. Fighting for money? For money. So it's a mercenary. And with them a short conversation - against the wall, according to the laws of the LDNR. They don't have hangings.

[Liam]

Quote: Krasnoyarsk

. Do these dummies have an Outskirts passport? Not

Do the LDNR militias have all passports?

Quote: Krasnoyarsk

Fighting for money? For money.

And the contractors of the Armed Forces of the Russian Federation and the same militias do not receive money?

Quote: Krasnoyarsk

So a mercenary

?

It’s even inconvenient to ask about Wagner PMCs .. who is fighting there and for what .. and in what capacity ...

[Ugochaves]

Forgive me for some kind of mess in your head, everything is turned upside down. It doesn't even make sense to discuss this "pearl"

[Volodin]

Quote: Liam

Do the LDNR militias have all passports?

Not the militias, but the People's Militia. Not everyone has Russian passports, everyone has passports of the DPR and LPR recognized by Russia.

Quote: Liam

And the contractors of the Armed Forces of the Russian Federation and the same militias do not receive money?

Contractors of any army (I'll tell you a secret - even conscripts have a certain salary) receive money for their service, how is this connected with the mercenarism of people from another country?

Quote: Liam

It’s even inconvenient to ask about Wagner PMCs .. who is fighting there and for what .. and in what capacity ..

Are there precedents for sentences against Wagner? Give examples

[Liam]

Quote: Volodin

Not the militias, but the People's Militia

)) This fundamentally changes the matter ...

I ask you ... if you approach this logic of yours about the Geneva Convention and so on .... what should Ukraine do with those who were captured, for example, with these very people's policemen of state entities not recognized by international law who, by the way, are almost all citizens of Ukraine and participate in the database as part of the army of another state on the territory of Ukraine? What fate do you prepare for the captured Wagnerites who are generally not even formally covered by the status of the military of the Russian army and are classic mercenaries? What will happen to all these people if Ukraine starts to respond in a mirror way?

PySy ... by the way ... and the participants special operations in general, that is, all the Russian military .. from a legal point of view .. how is it with the provisions of the Geneva Convention in this case ... when there is no official war on the part of the Russian Federation?

[1976AG]

The people's militia fights not as part of, but in cooperation with the RF Armed Forces. If you do not recognize these state entities, then they are citizens of Ukraine and there are no questions. In any case, they live on their land and protect their land.

[Liam]

Quote: 1976AG

The people's militia is fighting not as part of, but in cooperation with the RF Armed Forces

How interesting ... what was the commander of the recently deceased Major General of the Armed Forces of the Russian Federation Kutuzov?

[Volodin]

Quote: Liam

I ask you ... what should Ukraine do with those captured .... if Ukraine starts to respond in a mirror

And you seem to be unaware of what they do with the captured in Ukraine? Yes? well, well ... Footage of the Ukrainian "warriors of light" cutting the throat of our prisoner and their mercenary accomplices, with AKM shots at the knees, is available on the net, and other footage of what is being done with our prisoners in Ukraine is also available, Therefore, here you can build as much as you want from yourself "not understanding" and pour questions, but the facts speak for themselves.

[Liam]

I am well aware of what sometimes happens to prisoners on both sides, if anything. Like any person with the Internet. But the speech in the article, as it were, is not about these "private" atrocities, but about the legal status of prisoners and the position of the parties on this topic

[Egg]

It’s useless to prove anything here, here the logic is quite p.in.n.d.o.s.ovskaya, then what they do with the prisoners “you don’t understand, this is different” is not discussed, only our actions, actions are discussed or condemned Ukronazis are taken out of the discussion.
I think you just need to agree with them and, in accordance with international laws, replace the execution by hanging, in public, on the square in Donetsk.
In full compliance with international laws
Everything is as always ... when Gaddafi was torn to pieces by a crowd of scum and stared over the body for a long time, they neighed happily and clapped their bloody hands, when they bully our guys in captivity, shoot through their knees to leave people forever disabled, when they burned a Russian soldier crucified on an anti-tank hedgehog with the letter Z carved on his chest, silence and no one had any questions about international law and some kind of conventions ... two-faced lying creatures, after this, fuck everything, there is only one desire, to burn all this infection in nuclear fire, everyone these helpers of the devil.

[Revolver]

Quote: Krasnoyarsk

according to the laws of the LDNR. They don't have hangings.

They do not, but in international law there is. And there is a precedent, not even one. So it is quite possible to apply the norms of international law and hang them in public.

[Nexcom]

according to the laws of the LDNR. They don't have hangings.

sorry ... hanging is a shameful execution.

[Bolt cutter]

Do these dummies have an Outskirts passport?

The British have, and they seem to have received it long ago.

[-Paul-]

...Do these boobies have an Outskirts passport? Not...

Oddly enough, but there is.

[Sibguest]

I will express my opinion in one phrase - the answer of Bogdan Khmelnitsky to the Poles (when the embassy arrived to him - to persuade him to leave under the arm of Poland): "Skoda speak." (I translate: "empty market", "nothing to market").
The court was. Guilt is recognized by the "soldiers of failure" themselves. Even a partial admission of guilt was enough for the highest measure of social protection.
Execute the sentence as soon as possible - a photo (after the sentence has been carried out) with documents, publish it on the website of the government of the DPR and the Investigative Committee of the Russian Federation.

[North Caucasus]

Religious radicals were somehow embarrassed to film executions. Even Americans were executed. What were their claims?

[Revolver]

Quote: North Caucasus

Religious radicals were somehow embarrassed to film executions. Even Americans were executed. What were their claims?

But then grace descended from heaven on many executioners in the form of Hellfire missiles.

[Nexcom]

Not only on performers - and on those who made decisions.

[dmi.pris1]

And the bullet in the back of the head? Will it also be fictitious?

[Poetry]

"Court fictitious", yeah. Only the bullets will be real.
It remains to wait for a short message. "The sentence has been carried out."

[Well done]

"the trial is regarded as fictitious"

Let them call them whatever they want, only they are not executed fictitiously.

[alekc75]

this ugly woman demanded that the Nazis be treated with respect??? maybe Hitler also had to ?? Who do these creatures think they are?

[Cananecat]

According to Blinken, "the lawsuit is regarded as a sham."

Here the whole state of Ukraine is fictitious ... but they remembered the tribunal.

[hagen]

Blinken:
We call on Russia and its satellites to respect international humanitarian law, to provide protection to prisoners of war, which are subjects of Morocco and Britain

How?! As for many years to teach Ukrainian artillerymen to "wet" with MLRS in residential areas with a population, Blinken did not have any questions about compliance with "international humanitarian law" for instructors from the United States and Britain, and even for performers from Ukraine .... Regarding the torture, humiliation and execution of prisoners of war by Ukrainian nationalists serving in the Armed Forces of Ukraine, even marked UN employees, Blinken also kept silent. All these moans of Western politicians are just another evidence of their double and triple standards in their understanding of international law. In this, everyone sees the racist attitude of the Anglo-Saxons to the entire non-Western world. Their vision of the principle "Quod licet Iovi (Jovi), non licet bovi" is at work.

[alekc75]

Quote: Civil

Not so long ago, our prisoner of war was "sentenced" in Kyiv to life imprisonment. And here in the DPR, prisoners of war were sentenced to a tower.\
I believe that any such trials of prisoners of war before the cessation of hostilities is a manifestation of intemperance in relation to captured military personnel. Everyone understands that by shooting prisoners of war - you can get a similar step from the other side. Probably, there is no need to get excited and approach such complex double-edged issues in a balanced way.

you would go there for a week - how would you crow??

[Sergey Kuzmin]

An interesting logic: the war crimes of mercenaries from Britain and Morocco, their participation in hostilities were not fictitious, but the court, you see, is considered fictitious in the United States.

got worried, jumped, "children of the devil" ...))) they don’t want to go to hell created by themselves ... but they have to go to this hell of their own! And after them send other war criminals who committed crimes in Novorossia-Donbass to this open hellish door

[certero]

Quote: Krasnoyarsk

Do these dummies have an Outskirts passport? No. Fighting for money? For money. So a mercenary

I recommend that you familiarize yourself with the definition of a mercenary and mercenary. The criteria you have indicated are absolutely not enough to recognize a person as a mercenary.

[Bulrumeb]

Definition from the Criminal Code: Mercenary a person is recognized who acts in order to receive material remuneration and is not a citizen of a state participating in an armed conflict or hostilities, who does not permanently reside on its territory, and who is not a person sent to perform official duties.
The Geneva Conventions state that mercenaries are not recognized as lawful combatants and do not need to be afforded the same legal protection as captured members of the regular army.
Well, what is wrong here, in order to recognize these noobs as mercenaries and deal with them accordingly?

[Ratmir_Ryazan]

In my opinion, the highest measure for a prisoner who surrendered himself is superfluous. I will say more this is stupidity that will do more harm than good.

We must not forget that the SVO continues, and the dill already has about 500 of our prisoners.

What will the execution of these 3 foreigners give? Revenge, can you imagine the consequences?

Maybe someone will be scared, but those who go back to Ukraine to fight for the Armed Forces of Ukraine will fight to the last bullet, and then cover themselves with a grenade, which means more of our soldiers will die !!!

And besides, now nothing will hold back the mercenaries, since captivity has become tantamount to death, which means the torture of our prisoners with throat cutting, gouging out their eyes and burning at the stake will become even more.

They had to be given 15-20 years, and then exchanged for ours, who are also sitting in Western prisons quite a lot.

[tihonmarine]

Quote: Ratmir_Ryazan

In my opinion, the highest measure for a prisoner who surrendered himself is superfluous.

A prisoner is a soldier, and a mercenary falls out of this position.

[Ratmir_Ryazan]

A prisoner is a soldier, and a mercenary falls out of this position.

I'll try to explain on the fingers.

In Ukraine, 10 foreign citizens are fighting in the ranks of the Armed Forces of Ukraine. Now, would you rather they all surrender or fight them?

10 is almost a division.

In the first case, yes, they give up and everyone remains alive, they get 15 years each, then they change someone to ours, someone sits until melted and gets out on parole and goes home.

In the second case, we concentrate a bunch of forces and start fighting with them, while we suffer losses both in people and in equipment, in the end, of course, we will defeat them all, but we will lose about 1000 of our fighters, maybe a little less, maybe a little more, but there will be losses and this is a fact.

So what do you choose revenge and minus 1000 of your fighters (woe will come to 1000 families) or a bloodless victory and saving the lives of all your fighters?

Here are all those who yell that it is necessary to execute the prisoners - they choose revenge and agree to put another thousand of their soldiers for this and forget that they have ours in captivity.

And I want victory, and with minimal losses on our part. And the surrender of the enemy is also our psychological victory over the enemy.

How much grief the Nazis brought to our land during the Second World War, but despite this, our command and the first persons of the country showed prudence, the prisoners were not executed and the Germans were not exterminated.

[tihonmarine]

Quote: Ratmir_Ryazan

In Ukraine, 10 foreign citizens are fighting in the ranks of the Armed Forces of Ukraine. Now, would you rather they all surrender or fight them?

I would prefer that they sit at home in the "fatherlands" and not climb into Russia, and if they climbed, they need to be destroyed, so much so that there are no prisoners.

[FoBoss_V]

Well, if the court is fictitious, then the bullets for carrying out the sentence will definitely be real. Everything is as it should be, 9 grams according to the standards of the Chamber of Weights and Measures. Nowhere really

[NSV]

I would like to believe that the verdict of the tribunal will be heard soon !!!

[Egoza]

In fairness, it should be noted that the mother of the mercenary turned to the British government as soon as she learned that her son was captured. However, then she was answered something like "We didn't send him there. He went himself." Why are you so mad now? Didn't expect the DNR to be serious? And what should be considered with the DNR? Relying on the Red Cross? And, by the way, Ze, and in his "face" Ukraine does not recognize the Geneva Convention. So there is nothing to shed crocodile tears here.

[tihonmarine]

Aslin's mother Ang Wood learned of the barbaric verdict while watching TV news at the family home in Newark, Nottinghamshire. The family is devastated.

And how devastated the families of the victims were, at the hands of their sadistic son in the Donbass, Aslin's family did not think

[Corrosion inhibitor]

This is not a "fictitious" court - this is a defective State Department!
Their country's presidents are confused without any ulterior motive. We don’t even need their advice, and everything else - and even more so, it’s time to start throwing it in the trash.

[fuel oil]

The rope and the gallows will be the most real.

[Vladimir Vladimirovich Vorontsov]

"Court is fictitious":

***
- The verdict is real...
***

[iz odessy]

abomination. finally, or finally, today every person and citizen, vtch. the young can visually realize the depth of the hypocrisy of smiles with ceramic teeth of representatives of the so-called "advanced democracy of the Western model." The second thing that is also time to realize (the liberals, LGBT and grant-eaters do not belong to the finished Soros because of self-interest) is the nature of the attitude towards "non-democratic countries" and countries that are candidates for democracy - you-we are Papuans, to whom the "ship of progressors" sailed and we will be forever

[rocket757]

“Fictitious court”: the US State Department and the British Foreign Office comment on the death sentence in the DPR to foreign mercenaries

Who cares what they say in arrogance and stripes?

[seregatara1969]

Here we are wondering, did anyone talk to this Lisa from the track about the Russian sound and the consonant meaning of the name and surname? It’s not serious how it turns out, for Putin to meet Liza from the track

[Romanenko]

Dogs canine death!

[Shkworen]

the Englishwoman howled as expected :)

[Electrical]

"Fictitious court" are they judging the Milosevic case?

[avia12005]

Punish, and only punish.

[Plowman]

Fake court? But death is real ... and the law is the law. And England, mercenaries are also entitled to the death penalty.

[Angry]

DEATH TO THE Executioners!!!!! Who will come to us with a sword ....

[Irek]

If the court is "fictitious" as they say, then the rope on which they will be hanged in public will be real.

[Adagka]

Compassionate peacekeepers gathered in the comments through one.
Understand and forgive. Hang these ghouls, followed by the lack of Azov

[steelmaker]

Who fights in the Donbass, all war criminals! All prisoners deserve the death penalty! No mercy!

[rotfuks]

If the relatives of the English mercenaries demand that the mercenaries be treated with respect and returned home, then the wishes of the relatives must be treated with understanding. The execution of the condemned must be done respectfully and with all ceremonies, and if relatives demand to return them home, then they must be returned in the form of a cargo of 200. But the cargo of 200 must be paid by relatives or the British government.

[realist]

a mercenary in a foreign country can die at any second from the opposition of the local population. of course, foreigners should be pardoned and given into the hands of the local population, and they will ask in full ...

[trophy]

The court may be fictitious. But the verdict is real. And so that no false illusions arise for anyone, it would be necessary to hang these defendants naturally.

[kamakama]

All legal casuistry rests on the "recognition of the rights" of certain persons to certain actions. The rest is trash

[Alexander X]

Stop listening to the opinion of any rabble from England and "enlightened Europe". Well, Blinkin is not at all in business, the draftee is unfinished. Criminals are punished for their crimes. And it is absolutely correct that they were sentenced to death. No one is allowed to kill Russians! All criminals will be caught and punished!

[Hermit]

Aslin's mother Ang Wood found out about the barbaric verdict, the family was devastated, they demanded that their relative be treated with respect ... To demonstrate the maser how Russian prisoners are treated and what the Ukronazis are doing to them. Maybe something will understand and shut up.

[cniza]

Blinken:

We call on Russia and its satellites to respect international humanitarian law and provide protection to prisoners of war

You explain this to the horses, but we don’t need to, we do everything according to the law ...

[sgr291158]

They killed people and got paid for it. I had to stay at home.

[mashroom]

And what, you can pardon. Announce the time of exit from the pre-trial detention center and send them on foot to the bus station unaccompanied. They themselves will break back into the pre-trial detention center if they have time to run ..

[_simply]

What? Did you sing about humanitarian law? What a touching sight... The masters of the tenfold standards are calling for the observance of the very best.

[APASUS]

It’s bad that hard labor is not now for such figures. We must be aware of our guilt throughout this period of punishment.

[Alexeevich0010]

when they are fictitiously shot with fictitious bullets, let’s listen to what they will say about the fictitious verdict...

[certero]

Quote: Bulrumeb

Definition from the Criminal Code: Mercenary a person is recognized who acts in order to receive material remuneration and is not a citizen of a state participating in an armed conflict or hostilities, who does not permanently reside on its territory, and who is not a person sent to perform official duties.
The Geneva Conventions state that mercenaries are not recognized as lawful combatants and do not need to be afforded the same legal protection as captured members of the regular army.
Well, what is wrong here, in order to recognize these noobs as mercenaries and deal with them accordingly?

To begin with, let's look at what falls under the definition of a mercenary in a special UN convention.
1. The term “mercenary” means any person who:

(a) Specially recruited locally or abroad in order to fight in armed conflict;

(b) in taking part in hostilities is motivated primarily by a desire for personal gain and who is in fact promised by, or on behalf of, a party to the conflict, a material reward substantially in excess of that promised or paid to combatants of the same rank and function included in the personal the composition of the armed forces of that party;

(c) is neither a national of a Party to the conflict nor a permanent resident in territory controlled by a Party to the conflict;

d) is not a member of the armed forces of a Party to the conflict; And

(e) Not sent by a State which is not a Party to the conflict to perform official duties as a member of its armed forces.

I'll try to translate it into the usual one - the mere fact that a person came from another country and fights is not enough to be considered a mercenary. It is also not enough that he is not a citizen of the country. For example, non-citizens serve in the Russian army, just like in the American one.
The person is also not part of the personnel of the unit, that is, he does not have a military ID or anything else certifying that he is a soldier.
And finally, he is paid much more money than the same local.
That's when all these things coincide, then you can consider a mercenary.
There is also the Russian Criminal Code, where the term "mercenarism" is also disclosed.
Note. A mercenary is a person who is acting for the purpose of receiving material remuneration and who is not a citizen of a state participating in an armed conflict or military actions, who does not reside permanently on its territory, and who is not a person who is assigned to perform official duties.

As you can see, in the Russian definition, some of the clauses from the convention are thrown out, but based on law enforcement, they are still taken into account, because if a person receives a salary similar to that received by citizens, it is difficult to accuse him of acting only for material reward.
Conclusion - you can’t just call a person a mercenary, this is a rather complicated definition and the court should decide this.

[Elka]

The greatest criminals in the history of mankind - the British and Americans - bark loudest in defense of rights and freedoms. Meanwhile, they themselves constantly break them all over the world. In the USA and England, courts are a sham. For they serve the interests of the rich against the poor. And in general, American criminals do not need courts. In the Guantanamo concentration camps and many others, people are tortured and killed without a sentence. And the greatest manifestation of American legality and humanity was the most productive murder in human history. Done on hundreds of thousands of children, women and old people. Dropping atomic bombs on Hiroshima and Nagasaki.

[George Miloslavsky]

AHA, i.e. how to go and kill people is all right, but how to answer for this, then GOD help me, they kill. And Hussein was hanged by which court? They must be punished as a warning to others.

[trill]

Of course, the mothers of murdered Russians do not count.

[Stas1973]

Let's start with the fact that de jure, these three have Ukrainian citizenship and are registered in the FSU. Which does not de facto cancel their bitch activities. This is the first.
Second. They will exchange them for ours who survived the Khokhlyat captivity.
Third. I want to look at the trials and verdicts of the real Khokhlyat ducks who tortured our prisoners, of the Azov people. And let them publish this in the press. Just don’t shoot, let them use hanging like VMSZ

[Bad Pig (Ham)]

but nine grams are not fictitious

[Joker62]

Both the West and the United States have double standards everywhere, especially for non-citizens of their own country.

[Shadofff]

If the Naglo-Saxons recognized them as prisoners of war, then they are waging war on us. In this case, shouldn’t we fire back at them?

[Sasha from Uralmash]

Damn Kin - defective! Sorry for the freak! The rat is working off his pension!

[Sebastian Aristarkhovich Pereira]

The law is strong, but it's law.
But for some reason it seems to me that the sentence will not be carried out....

[nikon7717]

Who would talk about legality...

[ydjin]

Let's go kill? Prepare to be killed yourself. Our warriors are coming to defend, feel the difference.

[FoBoss_V]

It would be nice for everyone who wants to follow in the footsteps of these scraps to see the consequences of their steps

[tolmachiev51]

The Hollywood-style show was condemned by the DPR, but these idiots stubbornly turn to the pan-heads. You have to pay for everything, and your turn will come.

[Ros 56]

When these ghouls are hanged, then they will find out what kind of trial, fictitious or actual. In the meantime, talk about the expanses of the Bolshoi Theater.

[Russobel]

When the cuckoos shoot, they learn what fictitiousness is.