Military Review

Ex-Minister of Defense Pavel Grachev Dies

261
Ex-Minister of Defense Pavel Grachev DiesIn the Moscow hospital named after Vishnevsky, the former head of the Ministry of Defense Pavel Grachev died. The cause of death in the medical institution did not specify, saying only that Grachev died today at 14: 40 MSK, reports RIA "News".


The details of Grachev's hospitalization have not yet been disclosed. It is known that he got 12 September in the intensive care hospital named. Vishnevsky. “Pavel Sergeevich is in intensive care. His condition is stable. There are no grounds for panic,” said a representative of the Omsk radio plant, where the former minister worked as an adviser to the general director.

The media therefore began to speculate that doctors hide the real reason for Grachev’s hospitalization. The hospital even refused to tell reporters where exactly the ex-minister was located, although they confirmed that he was treating him specifically. According to rumors, Grachev poisoned mushrooms at a friend's party: he returned home, suddenly felt bad and lost consciousness. The family was called for him, and the doctors took the general to the hospital.

Grachev left in the newest Russian stories ambiguous trace. Pavel Sergeevich was born on January 1 1948 in the Tula region in the family of a locksmith and milkmaid. After military service in the army, he entered the prestigious Ryazan Higher Airborne Command School and graduated from it in 1969 year. In 1981, Grachev was sent to Afghanistan, where he rose to the post of commander of the 103 Guards Airborne Division. In 1988, Mr. Grachev was awarded the title Hero of the Soviet Union.

Grachev was obliged to continue his brilliant career in the time of the new Russia due to the right choice, which he made in August 1991. As the commander of the Airborne Forces of the USSR, he first obeyed the order of the Minister of Defense Yazov to send troops to Moscow, but then went over to the side of Boris Yeltsin. In 1992, Mr. Grachev became Minister of Defense for the Russian Federation, and during the events of October, 1993 supported the president again.

The post of defense minister Grachev lost due to the beginning of the war in Chechnya. Responsibility for the failure of the Russian military at the beginning of the campaign was assigned to him. In addition, Grachev was accused of corruption and in the rejection of reforms in the army. In 1996, Grachev was dismissed and replaced by Igor Rodionov, by the way, the former commander of Grachev.

“In my 40 Army, Grachev was a good commander of the Airborne Division. He never rose above this level. He became the minister only because he ran to Yeltsin’s side in time,” Rodionov, who didn’t work well with Yeltsin, described him and was quickly fired.

Hero of Russia, Colonel General Gennady Troshev also spoke about Grachev not from the best side. According to him, he expected more from the experienced "Afghan" during the first Chechen campaign. At the same time, Troshev found a positive side in the activities of the ex-minister: according to him, Grachev "did not allow the army to be destroyed under the guise of military reform, as the young reformers demanded."

After his resignation, Grachev worked for a long time in the Rosvooruzhenie (Rosoboronexport) company. In 2007, he was discharged to the reserve and during the last years of his life he served as the head of a group of advisers to the general director of the Omsk Production Association "Radio Plant named after AS Popov".
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  1. rexby63
    rexby63 23 September 2012 18: 44 New
    18
    Oh dead or nothing or good
    1. spender
      spender 23 September 2012 18: 47 New
      68
      He was a Hero, but got into politics and ended up in .... (not allowed today) recourse
      In history, it will remain like a Pasha Mercedes ... winked
      I understand that I cause fire on myself, but he can’t forgive young boys who died in Chechnya even after death !!! IMHO hi
      I agree with all the minuses and I understand why they are put hi In no case do I hold no evil hi
      1. Rezun
        Rezun 23 September 2012 18: 59 New
        12
        Yes, spender, Pasha - Mercedes - he wrote to himself an obituary ...
      2. ShturmKGB
        ShturmKGB 23 September 2012 20: 43 New
        -4
        Yes, he himself obeyed the order, it was a difficult time ... I am sorry for those close to me ...
        1. wax
          wax 23 September 2012 21: 50 New
          18
          This does not apply to him: he did not comply with the order of the Minister of Defense, and he himself chose whose orders to fulfill, violating the oath. He drew the army in 1993 to the execution of parliament. For that I received from EBN a personal gold medal weighing 100 grams. So wherever you go, namely Grachev turned the history of our country practically. No condolences.
          1. Konrad
            Konrad 29 September 2012 14: 04 New
            0
            Quote: Wax
            For that I received from EBN a personal gold medal weighing 100 grams.

            And my grandmother a neighbor said - 250 grams. Who to believe?
            1. Karish
              Karish 29 September 2012 14: 10 New
              0
              Quote: Konrad
              And my grandmother a neighbor said - 250 grams. Who to believe?

              Your neighbor is lying, my neighbor is telling the truth.
              He first drank 100 grams and for this he received a medal of 250 grams - gold. wassat
        2. vezunchik
          vezunchik 23 September 2012 22: 14 New
          +9
          There is no such order - to betray the motherland And to break the oath! And even more so fight with your people !!!
      3. x-men
        x-men 23 September 2012 23: 19 New
        +3
        with what confusion was he a hero? he was the one who didn’t keep the union about who you are now recalling !!!!!!!!!
      4. vorobey
        vorobey 24 September 2012 09: 02 New
        +5
        Quote: spender
        I call fire on myself, but he can’t forgive young boys who died in Chechnya after death


        Lesha hello, there Kvashnin more than a taxi driver puzzled. when he introduced troops without organization of interaction and in the complete absence of combat coordination.
    2. Grenader
      Grenader 23 September 2012 18: 50 New
      14
      I want to say a lot about him or nothing.
      1. Vadivak
        Vadivak 23 September 2012 20: 24 New
        +6
        Quote: Grenader


        I want to say a lot about him or nothing.


        How Zyuganov about Yeltsin

        As a truly patriotic person who knows the canons of Russian life and Orthodoxy, today I would refrain from commenting on his actions, ”Zyuganov told ITAR-TASS. “I have no good words about his policies, but I don’t want to say bad ones.”
        1. with
          with 23 September 2012 21: 18 New
          29
          Quote: Vadivak
          How Zyuganov about Yeltsin

          As a truly patriotic person who knows the canons of Russian life and Orthodoxy, today I would refrain from commenting on his actions, ”Zyuganov told ITAR-TASS. “I have no good words about his policies, but I don’t want to say bad ones.”

          And I do not care about his comments, as well as the memory of the late Khrachev.
          I’m still sitting and waiting for those two regiments that they can take to Chechnya in two weeks!
          Handurasam has no place in the Russian army !!!
          And it’s very unfortunate that he died, and yes he died, and did not die, because people like him do not cause me to associate differently, he should have been suspended in one place and I shouldn’t need to talk about pity for Hitler’s sick person was sick and hto pity him ??
          1. wax
            wax 23 September 2012 22: 05 New
            +2
            Totally agree with you.
          2. PSih2097
            PSih2097 23 September 2012 23: 02 New
            +5
            He (Pavel Grachev) was an excellent regiment commander, a good commander, but turned out to be not just a bad Minister of Defense, but one of the worst ... He got into politics.
            1. Alex 241
              Alex 241 23 September 2012 23: 06 New
              +2
              This is called the limit of human competence.
              1. Novosibirsky
                Novosibirsky 23 September 2012 23: 13 New
                +2
                Can I change one letter in your word "limit"?
                1. Alex 241
                  Alex 241 23 September 2012 23: 14 New
                  0
                  I got the hint.
            2. bachast
              bachast 24 September 2012 04: 22 New
              +2
              These days you will hear many kind words about him. About the fact that he was one of the best ministers, a competent, intelligent military man ... including from respected people. Shamanov, for example, honored his memory with kind words.
          3. Filin
            Filin 24 September 2012 01: 31 New
            +4
            MET


            No matter how I treat him, but what you write ... it is taken out of context. He then put it another way. You repeat the stamp of the media once again.
            Himself a very long time he was not very well treated, because I have combat experience behind me. BUT .... close seen from afar. And history puts everything in its place only with time. Grachev was against the war in Chechnya and against the fleeting introduction of troops without appropriate training. Find his 93 year commentary and interview.
            It’s interesting ... WHO ... in its place would have done better ... in such a short period of time and with so few forces in a civil war against its people ...
            WHO ??? Name and surname in the studio ....
            1. Alex 241
              Alex 241 24 September 2012 01: 56 New
              +2
              Agree that each officer is responsible for the lives of his subordinates, and is convicted of the right to send them to death by the force of his order.
            2. Novosibirsky
              Novosibirsky 24 September 2012 02: 30 New
              11
              Quote: FILIN
              Grachev was against the war in Chechnya and against the fleeting introduction of troops without appropriate training.

              Nevertheless, let us judge people not by their intentions, but by their actions! It doesn’t matter what the man said (if he did), it is important what he did!
              We have all the masters, no one to resign. I’m not talking about shoot yourself, after the New Year’s 94-95 ...
              Ass your diamond pity mana ma!
              According to merit and retribution to the bitch!
              1. Alex 241
                Alex 241 24 September 2012 02: 35 New
                +3
                One word NO! It could save so many lives.
                1. Novosibirsky
                  Novosibirsky 24 September 2012 03: 09 New
                  0
                  Yes sir! A drunk might have been strewn, but he would have washed himself.
                  And after the New Year, without haste, you look and other tactics and strategy would have developed. Although, they work out .., for vodka and herring.
                  But Boriska wouldn’t wash - fired! The trouble is not great for an officer who values ​​his honor and not his general's pension ...
                  In short, there’s nothing to carry, everything is already clear.
          4. Vadivak
            Vadivak 24 September 2012 08: 42 New
            +5
            Quote: met
            And I do not care about his comments, as well as the memory of the late Khrachev.


            Don’t spit in all directions; the dead man Grachev served in Afghanistan for five years, the GSS received in 1988, more than 600 parachute jumps, several injuries, he is a military officer, and the fact that the politician is useless is so unknown how any of us would act in his place,
      2. Civil
        Civil 24 September 2012 10: 32 New
        0
        keep silent too, but the aspen stake would come in handy
    3. iulai
      iulai 23 September 2012 19: 01 New
      30
      but about shit? for some reason he did not send his son! and General Raevsky, in 1812, stood with his son, who was 12 years old, in the same ranks! this is the general! and grachev, shit !!!!
      1. Alex 241
        Alex 241 23 September 2012 19: 14 New
        31
        Two sons participated in the battle near Saltanovka on Raevsky’s battery, and when ours rushed into the bayonet the elder carried the banner inspiring the fighters, and he led the younger by the hand. But there were undoubtedly people of honor: life to the tsar, honor to anyone !!!!!!!!! !!!!!!
        1. iulai
          iulai 23 September 2012 19: 20 New
          +6
          Thank you, Alex, I wrote in the heat, it’s boiling, thanks again, in the memory of the people, the glory of the heroes will not fade !!!
          1. Alex 241
            Alex 241 23 September 2012 19: 24 New
            +3
            Everyone will be rewarded according to his deeds. So let him rest in peace. I understand your emotions.
        2. Generalissimus
          Generalissimus 23 September 2012 21: 11 New
          +6
          Quote: Alex 241
          Two sons took part in the battle near Saltanovka on Raevsky’s battery, and when ours rushed to the bayonet the elder carried the banner inspiring the fighters, and he led the younger by the hand. But there were undoubtedly people of honor: life to the tsar, honor to no one!


          . In connection with this your post thought ... They were nobles. A nobleman is a military estate. This is the original meaning of the nobility in Russia. After the 1812 year, nobles began to appear more and more, avoiding military service. There was even some member of the imperial family who did not serve in the army.
          What is typical today, many people who suddenly remember their blue bloods, or even buy noble titles (which is ridiculous in itself), no longer remember this essence of the nobility - to serve and fight for the Fatherland.
          Everything is fading.
          1. Alex 241
            Alex 241 23 September 2012 21: 17 New
            +2
            You know, somehow I had to talk with a descendant of a famous noble family living in France. To his question: how can I get Russian citizenship, I just answered him: serve in the Russian army. This topic has not been raised anymore. That's ....
            1. Generalissimus
              Generalissimus 23 September 2012 21: 28 New
              +2
              Here I am about the same ...

              P.S. I wonder who so minus me for any reason? =)
              1. Alex 241
                Alex 241 23 September 2012 21: 31 New
                0
                I am also amazed.
        3. Redpartyzan
          Redpartyzan 23 September 2012 21: 52 New
          0
          By the way, Raevsky himself denied this fact, claimed that it was just a myth. But the soldiers speak firsthand.
          1. Alex 241
            Alex 241 23 September 2012 21: 54 New
            0
            I think he denied it out of nobility.
    4. vezunchik
      vezunchik 23 September 2012 19: 04 New
      0
      so let's be quiet!
      1. spender
        spender 23 September 2012 19: 14 New
        +2
        No mushrooms, died of a stroke
        According to his son, an attack on his father occurred due to high blood sugar. Doctors at first assumed that Grachev was poisoned by mushrooms, but later established a more accurate diagnosis - a stroke.
    5. Oleg0705
      Oleg0705 23 September 2012 19: 14 New
      21
      Quote: rexby63
      Oh dead or nothing or good


      Pharisee dogmas this.

      Comrade Stalin is persuaded to whom it is not laziness, why they do not remember - "about the dead or nothing, or good"
      1. rexby63
        rexby63 23 September 2012 19: 17 New
        +6
        In the Russian tradition, it lasted 40 days
        1. iulai
          iulai 23 September 2012 19: 26 New
          13
          I am not Russian, but our family also has not returned from this war and I have every right, on behalf of the 18-year-old children who did not return from this war, to say grachev-shit, it's just a pity, they would say it harder !!!
    6. Alx1miK
      Alx1miK 23 September 2012 19: 42 New
      +4
      So it was accepted in ancient Rome. And we are in Russia. Therefore, it is better to say what is.
    7. Vadivak
      Vadivak 23 September 2012 20: 18 New
      +4
      Yeltsin, Grachev., Gaidar, Chernomyrdin ... era
      1. stariy
        stariy 23 September 2012 20: 22 New
        13
        Quote: Vadivak
        Yeltsin, Grachev., Gaidar, Chernomyrdin ... era

        Black era
        1. Vadivak
          Vadivak 23 September 2012 20: 28 New
          12
          Quote: stariy
          Black era


          Chubais doesn’t think so, and Alla Borisovna, and many Moses and others
          1. stariy
            stariy 23 September 2012 20: 49 New
            +2
            Quote: Vadivak
            Chubais doesn’t think so, and Alla Borisovna, and many Moses and others

            Fie on them, their hellish circles are waiting for them
      2. vezunchik
        vezunchik 23 September 2012 22: 21 New
        +1
        Boehner forgot, the main prostitute,
    8. Grenz
      Grenz 23 September 2012 20: 28 New
      +6
      Nothing about this dead - but the Maikop brigade of the dead breathed a sigh of relief
      1. Alex 241
        Alex 241 23 September 2012 20: 31 New
        +3
        Eternal memory to the guys.
      2. wax
        wax 23 September 2012 22: 24 New
        +1
        And he could remain a hero of Afghanistan.
    9. Mikado
      Mikado 23 September 2012 20: 30 New
      +8
      This is only part of the proverb, it is necessary to negotiate it to the end:
      There was such an ancient Greek sage - Chilo, and so he once decided to come up with some kind of clever statement to be remembered for centuries. Sat and wrote in the sand
      "Oh dead or good or nothing"
      He sat, thought, erased, wrote a new
      "Oh Dead or Good or Bad"
      He sat still, erased, wrote
      "About the Dead Truth"

      So let's get the truth about Pasha Mercedes
    10. Trailer
      Trailer 23 September 2012 20: 33 New
      +9
      It’s better to keep silent, and honor the memory of those who fell in the winter offensive on the first Chechen one!
    11. 53-Sciborskiy
      53-Sciborskiy 23 September 2012 20: 42 New
      -2
      I feel sorry for the person. But as a minister, not really.
    12. Ragnarek
      Ragnarek 23 September 2012 21: 00 New
      0
      the complete statement is: about the dead well, about the dead nothing, about the dead truth
    13. beech
      beech 23 September 2012 22: 17 New
      0
      rexby63,
      Better keep silent then !!
    14. andrey.joshua
      andrey.joshua 23 September 2012 22: 59 New
      +3
      Oh dead or nothing or good

      Well, yeah, yeah ..... like that, since .... and silently forgot everything .... No, you do this at home if a rapist and a murderer brutally cost your family (God save you , of course) Of which later, they will condemn and shoot ..... we will see how you will be rebiral in front of your humiliated relatives: "Oh dead or nothing, or good" However, I repeat again: God forbid you, from this cup ... .
      It’s just a shame: As your own ... so it is, EGEGEY ..... DO NOT TOUCH ... But as a general, so at once all such Humanists .... Yes, and we selectively like that of Hitler, Penochet, you don’t remember good ??? Thoth ...
      So, YOU, NAMEKLATURA KODLA from the 90s *** TO YOU, NOBODY FORGETS, Nothing FORGOTS .... AND THAT WHAT YOU WAIT FOR, FOR YOUR ABOMINATIONS ON THE EARTH, IN THE LIGHT am
    15. Beetle-a
      Beetle-a 23 September 2012 23: 47 New
      0
      The original statement is as follows: About the dead or the truth or nothing.
      Feel the difference, as they say in advertising.
    16. Isr
      Isr 24 September 2012 00: 38 New
      +2
      I want to say a lot "or nothing." Judging by how he suddenly left us, they helped him. As a reward for this is the most "or nothing."
      1. with
        with 24 September 2012 04: 17 New
        0
        Quote: Isr
        I want to say a lot "or nothing." Judging by how he suddenly left us, they helped him. As a reward for this is the most "or nothing."

        How do you feel bad there, oh wey !!
        Everywhere Mossad steers ???))) bully
      2. Vadivak
        Vadivak 24 September 2012 08: 46 New
        +1
        Quote: Isr
        he was helped


        It is unlikely that we would like to remove it for a long time, there is no “value” like a politician, popularity is below the baseboard, what's the point?
    17. Sakhalininsk
      Sakhalininsk 24 September 2012 07: 14 New
      0
      Nicodemus died and to hell with him!
      For those deeds that he did as minister, at best, how Garden should have moved ....
    18. mongoose
      mongoose 24 September 2012 08: 10 New
      0
      Shamanov spoke well of him today, however, contrary to the opinion of the local "society" laughing
  2. kadcin-max
    kadcin-max 23 September 2012 18: 45 New
    -8
    Everlasting memory!
    1. vezunchik
      vezunchik 23 September 2012 19: 06 New
      12
      Yeah, he left a memory of himself, like Yeltsin ....
      1. teplal
        teplal 23 September 2012 22: 07 New
        -4
        Hurried to this forum, at first it seemed like adults. After a while it became not interesting. Comments are predictable. They wrote off iron, it was bad. They took iron, it’s good. Trepidation about a person’s death looks like squalor. Check your conscience first, then measure someone else
    2. cool.kirko
      cool.kirko 24 September 2012 20: 40 New
      +1
      Yes Heroes in the Empire did not rush. This does not cancel the subsequent, it exacerbates.
      I go with my friends, TUDA. And again, I understand. We talked with the furniture maker for an hour, from 17 p.m.
      He took two viskars on his chest (we don’t get drunk, even girls, ets) chemistry, the elders were learned by the Empire, we were young, because there are no more instructors, psychologists, or masters. Notice to me exactly how much he is at the end of December 94.
      I’m climbing with insignia of composition. He- mm has eliminated.
      Please explain to the people of the military estate and others like them, 60 letters - I will answer within the limits of knowledge and experience.
      Only at home I will be at 2. I’ll work, melee, sleep-at 6 already rushing with a fighting girlfriend. So 3 years. Now catch the clip.

      Admins, do not ban, there our puppies lay down and is not easy. If you’re going to measure it, I’ll cut down the site, it’s a pity the root is a great site, but be kind. ERGO. Read the dossier to me. Let's not argue before separation is a bad omen.

      Kindly explain to the personnel, contact ONLY THROUGH THE PERSON.
  3. Drappier
    Drappier 23 September 2012 18: 49 New
    -9
    Peace be upon you ...
  4. fern
    fern 23 September 2012 18: 49 New
    -11
    Different personality. and ratings of his activities are also different. In any case, the kingdom be upon him
    1. vezunchik
      vezunchik 23 September 2012 19: 08 New
      +8
      There will be no kingdom of heaven for his soul, too much blood on his hands ....
    2. Alexander Romanov
      Alexander Romanov 24 September 2012 04: 42 New
      0
      Quote: Farn
      In any case, the kingdom be upon him

      The kingdom will be, if it manages to answer many questions that have accumulated among the soldiers and officers who died in Chechnya and will soon be asked these questions. But will he be able to answer, if not then instead of the kingdom will be ........... am
  5. gregor6549
    gregor6549 23 September 2012 18: 49 New
    -3
    Oh dead or good or nothing. Therefore, no comments.
  6. oper66
    oper66 23 September 2012 18: 52 New
    0
    Let the earth rest in peace to him, and time will judge his affairs — it is one judge, maybe he will reveal to us the secrets of the chancellery-
    1. Kaa
      Kaa 23 September 2012 18: 56 New
      0
      Quote: oper66
      time, it’s one judge, maybe it will reveal to us the secrets of the chancellery-

      Here I am about the same thing, mushrooms ... resuscitation ... 11 days ... somehow ... it is not clear, perhaps ...
    2. mark021105
      mark021105 23 September 2012 19: 22 New
      16
      In August 1991, he violated the Military Oath.
      1. max73
        max73 23 September 2012 20: 36 New
        -4
        in August of the 91st Gorbachev with Shevarnadze and Yakovlev at you .... did ..
        1. mark021105
          mark021105 23 September 2012 20: 58 New
          +1
          So it was necessary to identify everyone in Sailor's silence, and not rush "in the wind" ...
          1. max73
            max73 25 September 2012 20: 34 New
            0
            why didn’t he determine himself, huh?
  7. iulai
    iulai 23 September 2012 18: 56 New
    20
    dog-dog death! how many ruined unshooted boys? he got the curse of mothers, the curse of girls who did not wait for their suitors, the curse of unborn children! dog - dog death !!!!!!
    1. max73
      max73 23 September 2012 19: 18 New
      -1
      I ask you not to be a fool. have, in the truest sense of the word, a conscience. Glory to the commander of the 103rd Airborne Division
      1. max73
        max73 23 September 2012 20: 31 New
        -3
        men who plus, thank you! I feel that the contingent, that the division commander ... that the Minister of Defense ... shpaki .. and you need to wet the creatures ..... or they are us ...
      2. iulai
        iulai 23 September 2012 20: 38 New
        -5
        Airborne Forces - GLORY! IF GLORY airborne for such heroes as Rooks, then really airborne glory! By the way, I don’t remember, but where did the airborne forces gain fame?
        1. Novosibirsky
          Novosibirsky 23 September 2012 20: 43 New
          +5
          Quote: iulai
          By the way, I don’t remember, but where did the airborne forces gain fame?

          Stop at this place. Remember the 6th company ...

          http://ru.wikipedia.org/wiki/%D0%91%D0%BE%D0%B9_%D1%83_%D0%B2%D1%8B%D1%81%D0%BE%
          D1%82%D1%8B_776
          1. Alex 241
            Alex 241 23 September 2012 20: 48 New
            +6
            6th company is a symbol of the Airborne Forces !!! Strength of spirit, courage, fidelity to the oath. REAL WARRIORS! As Suvorov would say, MIRACLE THE RICH !!!!!
          2. iulai
            iulai 23 September 2012 21: 10 New
            +2
            sorry, but we all and our sons would do the same.
            1. Novosibirsky
              Novosibirsky 23 September 2012 21: 20 New
              +3
              I really hope if I get such a test that I have the courage to do the same ...
              But to be absolutely sure of this can probably only have already accepted that battle ...
              1. Alex 241
                Alex 241 23 September 2012 21: 29 New
                +2
                Don’t worry buddy, if you explode, you will not be alone. I’ll cover.
                1. Novosibirsky
                  Novosibirsky 23 September 2012 21: 33 New
                  +2
                  I understand you))
                  ............................................
                  1. Alex 241
                    Alex 241 23 September 2012 21: 37 New
                    0
                    You know Russian and there’s one warrior in the field, and together we will arrange this ..... The whole world will shudder.
                    1. Novosibirsky
                      Novosibirsky 23 September 2012 21: 41 New
                      +5
                      I would still like us to be so million 148.))
                      Then the world will not have to shudder ...
                      1. Alex 241
                        Alex 241 23 September 2012 21: 50 New
                        0
                        Dreams, dreams ....
                    2. teplal
                      teplal 23 September 2012 23: 38 New
                      -2
                      I doubt that you are Russian, and your interlocutor. You still dream and haifu. I don’t want Shalom.
                      1. Alex 241
                        Alex 241 23 September 2012 23: 48 New
                        -1
                        Dear, what are you talking about?
                      2. lelikas
                        lelikas 23 September 2012 23: 51 New
                        0
                        The trolls woke up.
                      3. Alex 241
                        Alex 241 23 September 2012 23: 52 New
                        0
                        Now the full-length fun will begin.
                  2. Novosibirsky
                    Novosibirsky 23 September 2012 23: 48 New
                    +1
                    And who is Russian for you?
                  3. teplal
                    teplal 24 September 2012 00: 08 New
                    -3
                    Without the slightest idea, on the basis of the media. Aren't you ashamed, adult Russian people, to dance at the grave?
                  4. Alex 241
                    Alex 241 24 September 2012 00: 11 New
                    +3
                    if you didn’t notice, I didn’t say a single bad word to the deceased, although I have the full moral right. And everyone’s personal right to speak here. I’m talking only about what I know, saw, and what I witnessed.
                  5. Novosibirsky
                    Novosibirsky 24 September 2012 00: 40 New
                    +6
                    Before you begin to "spell out", take the trouble, as befits an adult, to fully familiarize yourself with the opponent’s position, and not to "blow bubbles into a basin of water" ... This time.
                    Second, you can have concepts based on the media!
                    Third, I personally try not to draw conclusions only on the basis of the media, and in this matter, I did not depart from my rule.
                    And the fourth, it’s not in my rules to reproach a person for unsatisfactory Russian, maybe he didn’t study Russian at all ... But! If you doubt the Russian character of your opponents, take the trouble to write the word "Russian" correctly! )))
                    Sincerely.
                  6. Alex 241
                    Alex 241 24 September 2012 00: 48 New
                    +2
                    + 5, it would be better if no one said. Dear Alexander, maybe we make mistakes in some words, but this is only because the action is ahead of thought, I want to say so much, and no one really pays attention to it, but maybe you opinion is not a standard of education, but people here are real. You shouldn’t understand it in such a way. But you can get to the bottom of the pillar, or why the buttons are not sewn to the side of the Soviet government. And welcome, welcome.
  8. sapulid
    sapulid 23 September 2012 23: 42 New
    +1
    When they go to war, the heroes are everything. Where do cowards, traitors and deserters come from? It is necessary to visit the hell in order to assert with certainty about one’s courage. You know, he always mistrusted “office heroes”. I saw such in business. Rarely did one of them break, although, on arrival, all of them considered themselves to be almost Schwarzeneggers.
    The statement that the Airborne Forces did not cover themselves with glory, to put it mildly, is idiotic. With the Second World War, landing took on the most difficult tasks. It should be noted the heroism of the paratroopers during Afghanistan, during the collapse of the Union, with the suppression of interethnic conflicts, when the Airborne Forces remained one of the few combat-ready military in the Russian Federation.
  • Arkan
    Arkan 24 September 2012 04: 55 New
    +7
    max73,
    Even before the First Chechen FGC, it tried to dump Dudaev with the help of the opposition, which was reinforced with tanks. The crews of these tanks were recruited from the RF MILITARY SERVICE. After the defeat of the opposition forces trying to take Grozny, most of the tankers were captured ... Grachev REFUSED these fighters! And you called this Minister of Defense a hero? Who, then, is a coward?
  • oper66
    oper66 25 September 2012 20: 56 New
    0
    a jackal stinking at the grave of a hero, a shame .. that you are a seeker for defaming the name of which you are not worthy - during your life you were silent like bittersweet females - but you are all ready to kick him, I served with him as a soldier - he was divisive - thank him - you take away filthy creatures ...
    1. Karish
      Karish 25 September 2012 21: 05 New
      0
      Quote: oper66
      ..that you’re a wicked vicious one whose name you’re not worthy - during your life you’ve been silent like bitten girls

      Ancient African Wisdom -
      The old lion, even the monkeys fuck. wassat
    2. max73
      max73 7 October 2012 17: 22 New
      0
      thanks, friend !!! and jackals .... alas .... a lot of them became .......
  • alekss30
    alekss30 23 September 2012 18: 57 New
    10
    He did so much, but unfortunately died his death ...
    1. Captain Vrungel
      Captain Vrungel 23 September 2012 19: 23 New
      10
      Do not judge, let not you be judged. At the top he will be met and I will show you the way. There everyone gets what they deserve. God knows best.
      1. ruslan7608
        ruslan7608 23 September 2012 21: 20 New
        +2
        I support, at the top probably already tired of waiting
        1. lelikas
          lelikas 23 September 2012 23: 51 New
          +1
          To send down.
  • tumbajerry
    tumbajerry 23 September 2012 19: 00 New
    +8
    dog dog death!
    lope this pasha-mercedes-judah-henchman got from ebna for shooting the parliament of 1993?
  • yak69
    yak69 23 September 2012 19: 04 New
    +6
    Something he (grachev) reminds me of bakatin ......
    But be that as it may, he already answers TAM by the highest score.
    I am sure - TAM will figure it out.
  • TekhnarMAF
    TekhnarMAF 23 September 2012 19: 04 New
    +1
    The earth will rest in peace for him, and St. Peter will take care of the kingdom of heaven if he sees fit!
  • iulai
    iulai 23 September 2012 19: 07 New
    +7
    boiling up! I will not forget his commentary on TV. I quote Grachev’s words from this comment: "soldiers die with a smile on their lips!" is that the soldiers who burned in tanks on the streets of Grozny died with a smile on their lips!
    1. Captain Vrungel
      Captain Vrungel 23 September 2012 20: 57 New
      +8
      Yes. And it was like that. There was enough debility. When we rocked the string (checked the route of the column). on the most “modern” radio station R-105M (Parus-M) a masterpiece, “yelled a column breaking into the gorge,” stretch the string. You will be burned now .. In response. Who commands the lieutenant. And I'm a colonel (now you will be dead). And we could only watch how they destroyed the convoy, how our boys died under fire, because were on the opposite side of the gorge and dushmans were covered with stones located above us. Whoever was with Grachev knew that the officer in Afghanistan was risky, but too self-confident, believed that he and the Airborne Forces were the key to success. It was very difficult for us to work with his subordinates, who believed that where they were, there was victory. Because there they were mostly in trouble ..
      Too much blood was spilled out of the blue and who passed Afghanistan understand, because of the stupidity of the command, the soldiers shed blood. Honor and Glory to the Soldier, Warrior, Private and Lieutenant, who pulled that war on their shoulders. They are WINNERS !!! Lost-TE.
  • Strashila
    Strashila 23 September 2012 19: 09 New
    0
    what about him ... not what.
  • kasha
    kasha 23 September 2012 19: 10 New
    +9
    HOPE BURNING ALREADY IN HELL !!! HOW MUCH PEOPLE LAYED ONCE ON THE EARTH I DIDN’T ANSWER, TASTY ATTEN, HAD A LOW SLEEP, THERE WILL BE ASKED FOR THESE! FOR A PIECE OF AMERICAN SAUSAGES, I KNURED THE HOMELAND IN THE MEAT GRINDER, TOGETHER WITH THE BOREA, BURN THEM TOGETHER !!
    1. max73
      max73 23 September 2012 19: 21 New
      -13
      switch to Claudia, miracle ... Comdiv Grachev - Glory !!!
      1. kasha
        kasha 23 September 2012 19: 38 New
        +7
        What is difficult to read? Are your eyes sore? My miracle is not in your mouth ...., You say glory to the divisional commander, my neighbors or at the grave of Sergei Tolstoukhov! The APC burned out in a place with comrades. Are you adequate? Or just hope Troll !!
        1. max73
          max73 23 September 2012 19: 51 New
          -7
          yes right now! how many boys died in afghanistan ?! a lot of? lots of! but! the peasants gave you, schnicks, time ... and you, everything .... dew ... now the enemy is at your place ... a little more and they will fuck you ... do you have fun with verbal battles? .. come on, come on ...
          1. kasha
            kasha 23 September 2012 20: 38 New
            10
            It seems to me that you are raving! These are different things. They entered Afghanistan to protect the country from drugs, extremism, the penetration of xeno Islam, only now we began to understand why we gave such an order! Far-sighted men were then, although they are now scumming them to the fullest! But Chechnya is our grief, our tears, and the Chechen people! And people like Grachev brought to the bleeding wound of our multinational homeland! You think I’m drunk or tired, like your title here speaks of you as a decent person! But whatever you say, but the truth is only one, they ate our homeland, what we loved, respected, proud of !!
          2. Grenz
            Grenz 23 September 2012 20: 39 New
            +6
            And who brought the enemy into the house with a shot at the white house?
            How much did this .... swear the oath?
            The boys who died in Afghanistan would not have approved of his "sense of the wind"!
            And do not touch the memory of those who can not object.
            Glory to them!
      2. iulai
        iulai 23 September 2012 20: 41 New
        +3
        if you, a goat, would burn in a tank, like my son, you would have the right to discuss it. shut up bastard ..
      3. oper66
        oper66 25 September 2012 21: 17 New
        0
        GLORY I served at his command - jackals get on
  • derdeonis
    derdeonis 23 September 2012 19: 12 New
    +5
    Good news
    Finally, the miscarriage died. And what heaven does he have a direct elevator to hell
    1. teplal
      teplal 24 September 2012 19: 45 New
      -1
      The day before yesterday you were buried. Nobody cried either.
  • Novosibirsky
    Novosibirsky 23 September 2012 19: 16 New
    14
    I regret that this did not happen in the summer of 1994 ...

    Damn you, creeping bastards, drunk with Borey. And let your names be given to oblivion ...
  • APASUS
    APASUS 23 September 2012 19: 17 New
    +3
    ............. managed, did not wait for the court!
  • Narkom
    Narkom 23 September 2012 19: 20 New
    0
    keep silent for today nizya.
  • erased
    erased 23 September 2012 19: 21 New
    +2
    It’s a pity, of course, a man, but as a minister he has done so much that they still remember!
    Rodionov correctly said - he was a good divisor, but he became lousy
    Minister!
    It’s a pity not to hear the opinion of the first Chechen veterans about him, they could say a lot.
    But when a person dies, and even so early, it’s always bad ...
  • Kern
    Kern 23 September 2012 19: 23 New
    +3
    In our enlightened time, De mortuis aut bene, aut nihil usually plays the role of the rascal's last refuge. When a particular reptile gives up the spirit, the reptile choir less disciplined starts a goat song about the high mystery of death, the inadmissibility of dancing on the bones and spitting on the grave, about good manners and bestiality of the crowd. Along the way, wishing a painful death to all those who honestly call the deceased the scum and commemorate all the evil that he managed to commit while trashing the earth with his presence. “How can you, you beasts, gentlemen, learn restraint from ancient samples.”

    more details oper.ru/news/read.php?t=1051602118
    1. iulai
      iulai 23 September 2012 19: 34 New
      0
      kern, if you say high style, you see all survived in the Chechen war? the war has not touched you? Well, yes, from the side you know better .. and in the Patriotic War, one came to the funeral, and some served in warehouses ...
      1. Kern
        Kern 23 September 2012 19: 55 New
        +1
        Do you have cognitive problems?
        1. iulai
          iulai 23 September 2012 20: 46 New
          +2
          Yid muzzle. sorry comrade Joseph early in the Bose.
    2. rexby63
      rexby63 23 September 2012 20: 33 New
      +1
      If he annoyed you so much that you already remembered Latin, then what kind of bolt were waiting for him to lean back? Let's go and get shot. And yet - I can tell you and the Goblin. A Russian person does not speak badly about a dead man, not because he is afraid of evil spirits, but because the dead man cannot answer in any way. And you and the goblin look like jackals yapping at the pad.
      1. wax
        wax 23 September 2012 22: 44 New
        -2
        The last word in the comment is very out of place.
  • Walker
    Walker 23 September 2012 19: 35 New
    0
    In the article itself, the mistakes made by the dates do not converge. So "love" him ...
  • algol
    algol 23 September 2012 19: 35 New
    +8
    We understand. About a dead man is bad. In memory of his "good" words that in Chechnya our soldiers died with a smile on their faces. After that, only “good” words can be said about the deceased, especially the relatives of these smiling soldiers.
    1. Mikado
      Mikado 23 September 2012 20: 34 New
      +4
      Relatives still hope that Pashka also died with a smile on his lips.
      1. iulai
        iulai 23 September 2012 20: 52 New
        +1
        thanks mikado, I really hope that he will meet those dead with a smile on his lips.
  • Bashkaus
    Bashkaus 23 September 2012 19: 38 New
    -12
    The kingdom of heaven is a newly appointed slave.
    The judgment of man is one thing, the work of God is another. Not for us to judge!

    If you look at the Bible and judgment on Sadom and Gomoriah, then God exterminated infants as well. Many will ask, where is mercy and justice for innocent children? Grace and justice to them consists in the fact that God took the babies so that these innocent children would not absorb the sin of their parents with age and did not indulge in hell fire along with them. Thus, through cruel death, he saved the souls of infants.

    If we are talking about the thousands of dead children, I want to draw your attention to the fact that they died as the heroes of whom they threw alive in a meat grinder, in our hearts they will remain wars forever. But who knows, if they had survived and returned home after the war, if they hadn’t been in the organized criminal group, as they had grown by leaps and bounds in those troubled times? Would they not become murderers and especially dangerous attackers with a broken life after this war? Would they not kill us and our children? That is the philosophical question.
    But God has a business for each of us, only he knows how to live this life with dignity, what to do and how to die in order to remain forever in glory.
    So let's be merciful and not wake up to judge this person who is now standing beside God and looking into his eyes. Let us leave the judgment to God, we should be able to realize and comprehend our sins and not forget that we ourselves will sooner or later stand before God and answer for our lives and if God finds in us something that is unworthy of us entering heaven, the only thing we can say to him is “FORGIVE ME”, to which he will ask with a good voice, “HAVE YOU FORGIVED?” So think about all those who are so gloating, and you forgave?
    1. Alex 241
      Alex 241 23 September 2012 19: 40 New
      +2
      Russia does not favor us not with fame or ruble, but we are its last soldiers, and we must hold out until we die, ata bats, ata bats .....
      1. Bashkaus
        Bashkaus 23 September 2012 20: 33 New
        +1
        That's right, the homeland of its soldiers does not favor - I agree with this, and I also remember about the decision to drop the tank battalion into Grozny ...
        It’s just all the same disgusting to look at the gloating and joy from someone’s death.
        1. Grenz
          Grenz 23 September 2012 21: 04 New
          +6
          Bashkausu
          And you hint this to Obama and Hilary - they didn’t have to giggle like that when Benya Ladan was killed on the air, or when Hussein was hanged, or when Gaddafi was tormented.
          What can they and we again repent and forgive?
          For business and memory.
          But you don’t think that many mothers have now approached the photograph of their son - they said, "Here is the son and the judgment of God has happened!"
          1. Novosibirsky
            Novosibirsky 23 September 2012 21: 06 New
            +6
            Quote: grenz
            But you don’t think that many mothers have now approached the photograph of their son - they said, "Here is the son and the judgment of God has happened!"

            Well said...
            1. Alex 241
              Alex 241 23 September 2012 21: 21 New
              +2
              The worst thing is to bring relatives that their father, husband, son is not !!!!!!!!! Several times happened, God forbid !!!!!!!!!
            2. Bashkaus
              Bashkaus 23 September 2012 21: 45 New
              0
              Guys, I don’t agree with much that Grachev did, I’m talking about something else, about the deceased either good or nothing, you can’t forgive - keep quiet.
              Let's add here Kadyrov, how many Russian guys did he kill? Why doesn’t anyone go to him now and say a killer to his forehead and hang him up for a typewriter? And when he dies, everyone will dance on their bones ...
              My classmate was shot down in a Mi26 helicopter, though already in the second, they were symbolically missed by the jaw, or rather by the seals verified with the dentist's card. His mother then went crazy. Woe to many has come, but one cannot be likened to beasts and savages?
            3. Grenz
              Grenz 23 September 2012 22: 31 New
              +4
              Novosibirsky (1)
              Thank you!
              But these are not invented words by me.
              This is my neighbor said tonight!
              1. Novosibirsky
                Novosibirsky 23 September 2012 22: 42 New
                +5
                Quote: grenz
                This is my neighbor said tonight!

                Yes, like that, a simple Russian woman "opens" a casket called "Truth" ... In principle, this can be used to end the conversation, boys ...
                1. Alex 241
                  Alex 241 23 September 2012 22: 46 New
                  +1
                  You can’t deceive a woman, she can smell it inside.
                  1. Novosibirsky
                    Novosibirsky 23 September 2012 23: 04 New
                    +1
                    )) (c) Carp. Era of Mercy.
                    1. Alex 241
                      Alex 241 23 September 2012 23: 07 New
                      +1
                      Absolutely true, Weiner immortal.
          2. Bashkaus
            Bashkaus 23 September 2012 21: 39 New
            +1
            Well, let's become the same as Hillary Clinton and Obama. What else can I say? I understand that it is difficult to remain human when emotions overwhelm, but still ...
          3. oper66
            oper66 25 September 2012 21: 32 New
            0
            there are none and we are alive - well, what do you bleat jackals
        2. oper66
          oper66 25 September 2012 21: 26 New
          0
          Watching the comet, I understand that there is one whiteness hanging — if he didn’t live, he didn’t sin — and which of you wretched could have gone through the crucible of war 0 such problems fell on his shoulders — and how can you stay alert on the Internet — Mshov well done — I’ve followed all the asses now huyray-what are you all primates no shakolopodobnye
  • andrei332809
    andrei332809 23 September 2012 19: 38 New
    0
    I feel sorry for the person. but somehow I don’t want to talk about him.
  • Yuri11076
    Yuri11076 23 September 2012 19: 39 New
    0
    In my opinion, it’s not worth saying anything, just keep silent ...
  • Kyrgyz
    Kyrgyz 23 September 2012 19: 41 New
    +2
    So, the hero of Afghanistan, a professional paratrooper, held the first Chechen one, and the furniture maker Commerce reassured Georgia, however request
    1. iulai
      iulai 23 September 2012 20: 59 New
      +1
      Kyrgyz, if there weren’t the Chechen “East” battalion, I don’t know how things would turn out. they went first, the loss is one wounded. and our commander in chief., of this district, was fired from under the tank by a pistol.
      1. T72B
        T72B 23 September 2012 21: 54 New
        0
        "East" won the whole war? Alone, without artillery and tanks? Oh well. A bold and very "professional" statement.
      2. andrey903
        andrey903 24 September 2012 09: 00 New
        -1
        The East could not go first, because at any time it could go over to the side of the Georgians. And losses, as a rule, during the movement, among peacekeepers, you can’t do anything about it.
  • vovan234
    vovan234 23 September 2012 19: 43 New
    +3
    I agree with the majority, everything is true, boys, as Minister of Defense, Grachev left a bad reputation after himself, recently read the book "The Chechen Trap", Grachev was looking for his own profit and point.
  • tumbajerry
    tumbajerry 23 September 2012 19: 56 New
    +8
    Kern Today, 19:23
    1 In our enlightened time, De mortuis aut bene, aut nihil usually plays the role of the rascal's last refuge. When a particular reptile gives up the spirit, the reptile choir less disciplined starts a goat song about the high mystery of death, the inadmissibility of dancing on the bones and spitting on the grave, about good manners and bestiality of the crowd. Along the way, wishing a painful death to all those who honestly call the deceased the scum and commemorate all the evil that he managed to commit while trashing the earth with his presence. "How can you beasts, gentlemen, learn restraint from ancient samples?"

    I’m translating a quote from kerna: guys, do you piss like noble college students?
    if the cattle died, say so !, otherwise they shy bashfully (about the dead it’s good or nothing)
    this is pure Pharisaism, an ostrich non-male position imposed on us by liberals, defenders of eltsinoids !!
    1. Novosibirsky
      Novosibirsky 23 September 2012 20: 08 New
      +4
      Quote: tumbajerry
      I’m translating a quote from kerna: guys, do you piss like noble college students?
      if the cattle died, say so !, otherwise they shy bashfully (about the dead it’s good or nothing)
      this is pure Pharisaism, an ostrich non-male position imposed on us by liberals, defenders of eltsinoids !!

      I support your opinion! Because of such pseudo-value attitudes, such as “oh dead or good or blah blah blah”, “God gave God took”, “the Supreme Court will repay, but don’t you dare”, we cannot even call the enemy an enemy after death! You see, if not by concepts ... And who told us, brothers, what we do not by concepts? Who "programmed" us into this slavish behavior? Think Slav ... Think ...
      1. Yarbay
        Yarbay 23 September 2012 20: 39 New
        +2
        Quote: NovoSibirets
        I support your opinion! Because of such pseudo-value attitudes, such as “oh dead or good or blah blah blah”, “God gave God took”, “the Supreme Court will repay, but don’t you dare”, we cannot even call the enemy an enemy after death! You see, if not by concepts ... And who told us, brothers, what we do not by concepts? Who "programmed" us into this slavish behavior? Think Slav ... Think ...

        But something else surprises me !!
        The current patriotic leadership of Russia and Chubais and Grachev and all the other villains are well suited !!
        Like Grachev all this time he worked in official positions, that is, it means they were satisfied !!?
        1. Alex 241
          Alex 241 23 September 2012 20: 53 New
          0
          Alibek, just these people are convenient and predictable, well, how can you not please your dear little man.
        2. Novosibirsky
          Novosibirsky 23 September 2012 20: 53 New
          +2
          So sure, satisfied. Or did not want to ted. Or considered normal. Or were they should and are obliged to someone. Or not make money from this. Or now it’s to the detriment of the Russian state ...
          Or, or, or ... But this is a completely different story ...
        3. iulai
          iulai 23 September 2012 21: 06 New
          +1
          yarbay, so Chubais fucking Putin, it was he who brought the unemployed Lieutenant Colonel Putin, whom you .... were from the KGB, and from the deputies of the dog, where he was introduced to the leadership, to the Alcoholic! here is working out a guy for a place. Chubais is now in nanotechnology and even the Court of Accounts does not have the right to check it. gave the godfather a bread place!
      2. Bashkaus
        Bashkaus 23 September 2012 21: 47 New
        0
        In general, the Slavs, for that matter, we at least buried our enemies with honors and respect.
        1. Novosibirsky
          Novosibirsky 23 September 2012 22: 13 New
          +3
          And he will be buried, so be calm ... More beautiful than many ... Tomorrow, turn on the "magic box".

          That's just not the Walk of Fame! Places are taken there!

          To the Slavs, for that matter, even during life, it was allowed to give a retribution! Their gods did not call them slaves!

          I don’t want to say simply, for the time being ... I keep myself for one place simply, so as not to start talking about WHAT the Slavic spirit has expelled from us. The Slavs would not allow such dishonor on their land.
          And you are right in saying that you need to speak during life, and not after the death of nits. Well, if he is gone, he also needs to pay back.
          1. bachast
            bachast 23 September 2012 22: 27 New
            +2
            You don’t even have to wait tomorrow:
            "Pavel Grachev became an example of courage and allegiance to the oath
            This is how the current head of the department, Anatoly Serdyukov, spoke about the former defense minister who left today. He recalled that Grachev was a Hero of the Soviet Union and headed the Ministry of Defense at the most difficult time for Russia"
            (Yes, I almost forgot, the source of ECHO Moscow)
            1. Novosibirsky
              Novosibirsky 23 September 2012 22: 44 New
              0
              .................................................. ...........................
        2. Oleg0705
          Oleg0705 23 September 2012 22: 18 New
          -3
          Quote: Bashkaus
          In general, the Slavs, for that matter, we at least buried our enemies with honors and respect.


          paid tribute to the valiant warriors (enemies) who came from outside, who fell on the battlefield.
          1. Apollo
            Apollo 23 September 2012 22: 28 New
            +2
            [quote = Oleg0705]

            I promise you, with all, under your very ears, you will enter Winnie's skull bully
            1. Izzy
              Izzy 23 September 2012 22: 44 New
              -3
              Apollo
              You are off topic, do you want to be a man? Yes, you will not become him litter
              Oleg can’t answer you, the posts are over, so don’t yap mongrel
              1. spender
                spender 23 September 2012 22: 48 New
                +3
                Quote: Izzy
                You are off topic, do you want to be a man?

                Hear you subhuman am Everyone knows perfectly well that you are leaving Vinka under a proxy under the nickname Izya, why Admin suffers this, I don’t know, but it’s not a matter of news about the death of a bad person, but to breed srach ... am
                Hold on !!!
                Apollo I think, too, understood !!! More and more of my comments will not be, I hope everyone understood !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! am
                There are enough topics for "hassles" and I will take part myself, but here it is somehow vile !!!!!!!!! hi
                1. Apollo
                  Apollo 23 September 2012 22: 52 New
                  +2
                  Quote: spender
                  Apollo I think, too, understood !!!



                  I have long understood Alex, yes drinksproxies by the way change one of the Netherlands, the country of free ........................................ .... mores !!! bully IMHO
            2. Alex 241
              Alex 241 23 September 2012 22: 59 New
              +1
              You are somehow off topic then burst into their showdown. Kindergarten with carousels.
          2. Novosibirsky
            Novosibirsky 23 September 2012 22: 48 New
            +2
            I didn’t think that I would ever agree with your opinion ...))
      3. T72B
        T72B 23 September 2012 22: 05 New
        +2
        Quote: tumbajerry
        I’m translating a quote from kerna: guys, do you piss like noble college students?
        if the cattle died, say so !, otherwise they shy bashfully (about the dead it’s good or nothing)
        this is pure Pharisaism, an ostrich non-male position imposed on us by liberals, defenders of eltsinoids !!


        Quote: NovoSibirets
        Because of such pseudo-value attitudes, such as “oh dead or good or blah blah blah”, “God gave God took”, “the Supreme Court will repay, but don’t you dare”, we cannot even call the enemy an enemy after death! You see, if not by concepts ... And who told us, brothers, what we do not by concepts?


        Two pluses !!! You will notice whoever invented it, when they need to, makes deviations from this rule. There is some non-official list of deceased persons who can be watered (even encouraged), but there is a list of other people who just try to hint - you won’t stink.
        The truth is always one. And this pseudo-obscurity is not necessary in the form of "either good or nothing." Deserved - get it. But I’m all more for telling the truth in person and during life. Grachev deserved all the "flattering" epithets. I see nothing wrong with reminding him of all his "valor" today.
      4. andrey.joshua
        andrey.joshua 24 September 2012 00: 11 New
        -1
        Due to such pseudo-value attitudes, such as “oh dead or good or blah blah blah”,
        Who "programmed" us into this slavish behavior?

        I support you, and I will try to answer you with another question: And who invented (by the way, only for Russians) Any power from God !? Here's a respected one, from where, for the naive .... but it’s more correct to say for uneducated people, all the stench draws .... And how many more disguised thought forms, but behind Christ’s deeds, are hidden ???
        1. Novosibirsky
          Novosibirsky 24 September 2012 00: 43 New
          0
          I admit, I prefer to remain silent about this for now ...

          "From now on, I keep my thoughts a secret, so that these thoughts do not frighten my neighbors ..."
          1. andrey.joshua
            andrey.joshua 24 September 2012 01: 10 New
            +1
            "From now on, I keep my thoughts a secret so that these thoughts do not frighten my fellow man ..."

            What, what thoughts can scare you ??? That’s it, they’ve already sailed .... The nuclear shield, they’re already rapping ..... Tomorrow we’ll wake up the serfs, and with that barcode on their foreheads .... And you say so that you don’t scare your fellow man with these thoughts .... It's worse. .. By the way, the present is an echo of yesterday's late Grachevsky ....
            1. Alex 241
              Alex 241 24 September 2012 01: 12 New
              0
              I recall a quote about the Russian revolt senseless and merciless.
  • Novosibirsky
    Novosibirsky 23 September 2012 19: 59 New
    15
    To everyone who “blew out their snot” for the bright image of Grachev.
    Here is the opinion of a person who paid for his officer honor and his honest name with his life. And another question - who was behind the death of Lev Yakovlevich.
    Lev Rokhlin bow to the earth ...

    1. Alex 241
      Alex 241 23 September 2012 20: 06 New
      +3
      Rumor had it that Rokhlin was preparing a military coup.
      1. Novosibirsky
        Novosibirsky 23 September 2012 20: 10 New
        +3
        Rumors circulated that his SPN MO had "fulfilled".
        1. Alex 241
          Alex 241 23 September 2012 20: 19 New
          +1
          it means that it was.
          1. Novosibirsky
            Novosibirsky 23 September 2012 20: 26 New
            +4
            Real Officer! What I thought, what I considered right, useful for the Motherland, I said so.
            Watch the whole interview, and you will already understand a lot about the causes and effects ...
            If he was preparing a coup (which I doubt, because he had no real leverage), then I regret that he did not have time to accomplish it.
            (for someone who listens attentively, although it would be better to be silent at all - I do not welcome, and do not approve, I, stsuk_o, am very sorry!)
            1. Alex 241
              Alex 241 23 September 2012 20: 29 New
              +2
              I don’t remember where I ran into the info about the coup, but if I dig something, I’ll definitely drop the link.
              1. Grenz
                Grenz 23 September 2012 21: 15 New
                0
                Maybe it’s necessary to say that it was not the “coup” that was being prepared, but some events to restore the situation in the country before the real coup?
                1. d.gksueyjd
                  d.gksueyjd 23 September 2012 21: 55 New
                  +1
                  Quite right, and the majority of the army supported and waited for him! Eternal memory to the hero, did not let Yeltsin free Russia.
                2. Alex 241
                  Alex 241 23 September 2012 22: 04 New
                  +1
                  Alexander is hard to judge about this, at least for now, but according to fragmentary information, the troops loyal to him were ready to enter Moscow, but only how to verify this, although the murder of Rokhlin is better than any evidence.
                  1. Grenz
                    Grenz 23 September 2012 22: 49 New
                    0
                    Alex 241
                    Yes, now it doesn’t matter.
                    Important that honor Rohlin (or Grachev will think) he didn’t drop it.
                    А Marshal Akhromeev! Also the hidden truth of his death. And the same honest soldier.
                    So for business and memory! +
      2. Karabin
        Karabin 23 September 2012 20: 39 New
        +1
        Alex 241,
        can be read here
        http://expert.ru/russian_reporter/2011/28/myi-dolzhnyi-byili-arestovat-prezident
        a/
        1. Alex 241
          Alex 241 23 September 2012 20: 42 New
          0
          Thank you, be sure to familiarize yourself.
    2. Yarbay
      Yarbay 23 September 2012 20: 28 New
      +6
      The worthy officer was Rokhlin !!
      Despite numerous threats, he found the courage and in the Duma spoke about the illegal transfer of arms to Armenia in the amount of a billion US dollars !!
      Refused the star of the Hero of Russia !!
      1. Alex 241
        Alex 241 23 September 2012 20: 35 New
        0
        Yes, Alibek, such units, about the rest we can say: stripes do not sew on pants.
      2. Novosibirsky
        Novosibirsky 23 September 2012 20: 35 New
        +4
        The worthy officer was Rokhlin !!
        Refused the star of the Hero of Russia !!

        The man was cleaner than the first snow ...
      3. Captain Vrungel
        Captain Vrungel 23 September 2012 21: 32 New
        +2
        You are right how the hero of Russia Kadyrov (a bandit and murderers) would have looked a) during the time of the Battle Merited General Rokhlin of the “father” and “BATI” of his fighters.
        Not fat-bellied "generals" and the iconostasis of jubilee trinkets on the chest (like 300 years of balalaika) .. but a warrior, the father of his children. Simple soldiers. Who always brought victory to Russia.
        о
        1. Alex 241
          Alex 241 23 September 2012 21: 35 New
          0
          We called jubilee tsatski stubs.
  • Sasha 19871987
    Sasha 19871987 23 September 2012 20: 05 New
    -1
    gentlemen, it’s better not to say anything bad about the dead, because they cannot justify themselves, they will be honest with their conscience and keep silent about his negative achievements ....
    1. tumbajerry
      tumbajerry 23 September 2012 20: 15 New
      +1
      hear, ostrich, what "gentlemen" we are to you
      there are only comrades, but look for gentlemen on liberal sites ... something like that ..
    2. stariy
      stariy 23 September 2012 20: 41 New
      0
      Quote: Sasha 19871987
      for they cannot justify themselves

      Why, he made excuses (In the style of Orshavin, or Orshavin in the style of Grachev)
    3. Grenz
      Grenz 23 September 2012 21: 26 New
      +1
      Sasha
      He didn’t make excuses for something alive.
      They will leave one by one, and we will forgive them.
      And live in the crap they left for us?
      If there was no judgment on earth for them, then what happens - do lawlessness - will you still be forgiven?
      Well, Sasha should not be like that.
      The memory of those dead - to whom he left no place on earth - does not allow this.
      1. Novosibirsky
        Novosibirsky 23 September 2012 21: 30 New
        +2
        Quote: grenz

        The memory of those dead - to whom he left no place on earth - does not allow this.

        And that’s right ...
        1. Alex 241
          Alex 241 23 September 2012 21: 51 New
          +1
          only the dead survive to the end of the war ....
    4. wax
      wax 23 September 2012 23: 00 New
      0
      From the 96th there was time to make excuses. I failed, however, because there is no excuse.
    5. GG2012
      GG2012 23 September 2012 23: 32 New
      +1
      Quote: Sasha 19871987
      will be honest with their conscience and keep silent about his negative achievements ....

      To be silent is to swallow.
      Swallowing means it will be repeated again.
      So what needs to be discussed ... to the level of truth.
      The truth is more important.
  • BARKAS
    BARKAS 23 September 2012 20: 07 New
    +6
    In the army, they grabbed Grachev immediately remember how the 94th before the start of the 1st Chechen officers were not embarrassed about anyone who was the material of their minister!
  • V. Salama
    V. Salama 23 September 2012 20: 07 New
    0
    Took note. Thanks to all. I don’t believe in God, that's why I’m upset.
  • Orthodox warrior
    Orthodox warrior 23 September 2012 20: 11 New
    +8
    Here you read about the pawn and I want to rejoice at such news! It is impossible, of course, for moral reasons, but one cannot but rejoice! How many guys didn’t come back from Chechnya simply because of the dullness and bragging of Grachev. In the majority, everything was correctly assessed. Of course, not for us to judge. But you can’t forget when the people were at least a little happy, when both EBN and Chernomyrdin died. Now, and another reptile rested. It is high time! Forgive me for such a syllable, but it’s hard to resist ...
    1. tumbajerry
      tumbajerry 23 September 2012 20: 17 New
      +2
      don't and apologize all the way
    2. Vadivak
      Vadivak 23 September 2012 20: 20 New
      +2
      Quote: Orthodox warrior
      grow me for such a syllable,


      We’ll be fine, but there are people who really grieve,
  • Chukcha
    Chukcha 23 September 2012 20: 16 New
    +1
    It’s better to keep silent.
    1. iulai
      iulai 23 September 2012 21: 18 New
      +7
      here, let's keep silent about this, then we’ll help about the other and everything is fine. and I will not be silent! that Gorbachev betrayed his homeland, that Yeltsin drank, that Grachev ruined the boys who had never kissed? let's keep silent?
      1. Bashkaus
        Bashkaus 23 September 2012 21: 52 New
        0
        Nobody makes anyone silent, if you are not happy with something, go to Kadyrov, Chubais, etc. who are still alive and ask from them, otherwise you only gloat about the dead like vultures indeed! I also do not agree with Grachev, he did a lot wrong, but this is not a reason to mock the dead so! Judge YES over the living, NO now over the dead
        POINT
        1. Novosibirsky
          Novosibirsky 23 September 2012 22: 34 New
          +2
          Oh, how right you are ..., and, oh how crafty is your truth ...

          You urge a person to commit suicide! Do you have a moral right to judge him for the innate instinct of self-preservation ..?! For what people call cowardice? !!
          Or do you justify your own inaction by at least honoring the memory of your tyrants? !! Like, since I was silent during his lifetime, it justifies me that I am silent after his death ... Interesting solitaire, right?
          I already wrote to you above, of course you are right .... You offer the slave to rise and overthrow the dictator! But not like the Leader, or Spartak, leading the movement !!! But as an equal in cowardice, as a mocker of his and his weakness.
          Your position is undeniably win-win in form ... I really hope that throughout your life you will be sure that it is true in content ...
          Sincerely.
          1. Alex 241
            Alex 241 23 September 2012 22: 44 New
            0
            As my friend, an honored paratrooper, told me: a man will not live bent all his life, when he will someday unbend ....
    2. ilichstar
      ilichstar 23 September 2012 22: 01 New
      +2
      YES HOW MUCH SAME CAN YOU BE SILENT ?? !!! WHEN SOLDIERS HOW IN THE DASH SHOWN SILENT! WHEN THE FIGHT GENERALS WERE SHOT OUT AND THE COLONELS ARE ALSO SILENT ... ALSO WHAT SHOULD BE DONE WHICH WOULD NOT BE SILENT?
      1. with
        with 23 September 2012 22: 09 New
        0
        Quote: ilichstar
        WHEN SOLDIERS HOW IN THE DASH SHOWN SILENT!

        You yourself BLACK SOLDIER!!!
        In truth, "Make a fool pray to God, he will break his forehead." !!
      2. Alex 241
        Alex 241 23 September 2012 22: 17 New
        +4
        You need to feel like a PEOPLE. Not an electorate, a state and a bunch of crackling names. It’s the people, the whole who unfortunately happens when something happens. And so we all go home. Kursk, Beslan, Nord OST, house bombings, we all understood, we are all in the same boat. As soon as we quietly got loans, bought cars, apartments, cottages. And we are silent. The guys’s imaginary well-being.
        1. with
          with 23 September 2012 22: 21 New
          +1
          Quote: Alex 241
          . As soon as they quietly scored loans, bought cars, apartments, cottages.
          good
          To help your post !!)) drinks
          And I ... and I ... and I ... (pressed the hedgehogs with a bare ass !!)
          1. Alex 241
            Alex 241 23 September 2012 22: 24 New
            0
            In the words of Zhvanetsky: what can be corrected in the hospital?
  • Brother Sarych
    Brother Sarych 23 September 2012 20: 49 New
    0
    It would be better if he remained the division commander ...
    It is not for us to judge him - God will judge ....
    1. T72B
      T72B 23 September 2012 22: 15 New
      0
      Quote: Brother Sarych
      It is not for us to judge him - God will judge ....


      Why not to us? Just do not need about some higher space authorities. If you follow the principle God will judge, then in this way any scum can be left unpunished.
      1. Brother Sarych
        Brother Sarych 24 September 2012 11: 11 New
        0
        This character is unlikely to me, I have never had a special regret about his fate, but I do not consider it possible to judge a person by the more than politicized statements of no less sympathetic characters ...
        By the way, in Chechnya it is to him that I don’t have much complaints - it’s not his main fault ...
        1. T72B
          T72B 24 September 2012 11: 41 New
          0
          I will not talk about Chechnya, because there is a lot of dregs and it’s hard to understand what he specifically did and what was attributed to him. I have only one question for this character: he didn’t know who Yeltsin was when he rushed into his camp with his pants up?
  • SenyaYa
    SenyaYa 23 September 2012 20: 49 New
    0
    As one regiment said in a day, it’ll take a formidable ... mmm ... eternal memory
  • Imperial
    Imperial 23 September 2012 20: 57 New
    +4
    Do not forget, do not forgive !!!
  • segamegament
    segamegament 23 September 2012 21: 03 New
    +6
    My dear 131omsbr completed the task on December 31.12.2004, 01.01.1995, and already on XNUMX/XNUMX/XNUMX it was this fag who passed it !!!
    1. Drappier
      Drappier 23 September 2012 21: 30 New
      +3
      The breivik is too smart, and about this General Petrov said, Pasha the Fool wassat
  • ilichstar
    ilichstar 23 September 2012 21: 04 New
    +4
    to burn him in hell .... I hope the new year of the 95th will be reminded of him there!
  • Gorchakov
    Gorchakov 23 September 2012 21: 36 New
    0
    I read the message about the death of Pasha-Mercedes ... Nothing sank in my soul ... But in general, for me it has ceased to exist since 1992 ... I just don’t want to respond badly, but I don’t remember it with a kind word either ....
  • Bort radist
    Bort radist 23 September 2012 21: 38 New
    +2
    Some sighed - finally paid off, while others - finally, will be to whom to write off.
  • Mr.Fox
    Mr.Fox 23 September 2012 21: 40 New
    -3
    Brothers, do not judge, but you will not be judged. Somehow it's not human. He died on that point. In the end, to prove someone's guilt or innocence is a court.
    1. ilichstar
      ilichstar 23 September 2012 21: 42 New
      +3
      Ie guys .... kids to send to the slaughter, men to betray it humanly ?! Yes, I prayed that his heavenly punishment would overtake .. since laws on the earth were not written to him! I'm sorry that he died so easily! let him sit in water and slop for a couple of months and then cut off his head!
    2. Novosibirsky
      Novosibirsky 23 September 2012 21: 49 New
      +2
      Quote: Mr.Fox
      In the end, to prove someone's guilt or innocence is a court.

      It’s strange this saying of yours ... Do not consider it insolence, are you a man who has lived? I mean - not young?
    3. Alexey Prikazchikov
      Alexey Prikazchikov 23 September 2012 22: 20 New
      +2
      Brothers, do not judge, but you will not be judged. Somehow it's not human. He died on that point. In the end, to prove someone's guilt or innocence is a court.


      And the fact that this nigga..we betrayed the Russians living there, yes, no, I personally won’t curse him, but I will also give condolences. Now the main point to put in this story. And in order to do this, you need to send the rest of the participants to a meeting with God.
  • field commander
    field commander 23 September 2012 21: 41 New
    +6
    I still remember his moronic smile when he said that we would take Grozny in one regiment. Our team was already raised to be sent to Chechnya in 94. They cursed him all from a soldier and above. It’s a pity that he was not dead until the trial.
    1. Ruslan67
      Ruslan67 24 September 2012 17: 16 New
      +1
      for so many years you weren’t tired of remembering it without bothering to think: why did he say that? he was right - the formidable could have been taken by one or two regiments if the drunken battle set the army a real combat mission — to destroy the enemy! instead of establishing a mythical constitutional order, first carpet bombardment, then shelling of MLRS over areas, then by forces of two regiments, it is better than internal troops to clean the territory, which is not clear?
  • lewerlin53rus
    lewerlin53rus 23 September 2012 21: 43 New
    0
    There are absolutely no good or bad people. So no need to break spears and quarrel now
  • ilichstar
    ilichstar 23 September 2012 21: 48 New
    +7
    how sorry Budanov was !!!!!!! AND BEFORE WHAT THE DEATH OF THIS NITA rejoices!
  • iulai
    iulai 23 September 2012 21: 49 New
    +4
    tomorrow at work, I fall asleep, another bad person died, I feel good, I believe God is in the world, good night to everyone, my huge and beloved country! God forbid, tomorrow some kind of bad person will die, that’s the joy of everyone!
    1. Alexey Prikazchikov
      Alexey Prikazchikov 23 September 2012 22: 16 New
      -1
      tomorrow at work, I fall asleep, another bad person died, I feel good, I believe God is in the world, good night to everyone, my huge and beloved country! God forbid, tomorrow some kind of bad person will die, that’s the joy of everyone!


      Most likely not God, but the GRU or the FSB. Hands reached out to him that's all.
      1. ilichstar
        ilichstar 23 September 2012 22: 52 New
        +1
        it is unlikely ... if only someone outside working hours has earned money ... secretly from the authorities.
        1. Novosibirsky
          Novosibirsky 23 September 2012 23: 08 New
          0
          I agree, there is no motive. It would be, before it would be "glued together."
          1. Alex 241
            Alex 241 23 September 2012 23: 12 New
            0
            He is a beaten card, nobody needs it.
  • Normal
    Normal 23 September 2012 21: 49 New
    +5
    For the division with the Chechens of Soviet stocks of weapons, for the outbreak of the Chechen war, for the boys dying with a smile on their lips to burn him in hell forever!
  • kNow
    kNow 23 September 2012 21: 50 New
    +7
    The soldier is Rokhlin. Soldier - Shamans. And Grachev - .... I will not say anything better ...
    1. Captain Vrungel
      Captain Vrungel 23 September 2012 22: 50 New
      +2
      Fate and Grachev drove twice the first time in Afgan. The second time in Klaipeda (Lithuania), when the Western Group of Forces (Western Group of Forces) was withdrawn from Germany on Mukran-Klaipeda ferries. Along our line, we observed the mess that Grachev's subordinates did. "Pasha Mercedes" - to say the least. In Klaipeda, the quartermasters sold everything, from vegetable oil, pasta. "Smirnovskaya", to motor vehicles and everything that can be sold. The commandant service from the ZGV (majors, captains, lieutenants) was changed to Muscovites (colonels, lieutenant colonels and one major). We lived in the same hotel "Jura" (in Lithuanian "Sea"). Before our eyes, the ferry unloaded the equipment according to the document "cars that cannot be repaired." But in fact, in half-wagons, Mers, Audi, BMW, but that was the end of my career .. We were sent to our "homeland" as those who were fenced in Ukraine. They sang the wrong tune.
      1. Novosibirsky
        Novosibirsky 23 September 2012 23: 10 New
        +2
        I have the same information.
      2. Alex 241
        Alex 241 23 September 2012 23: 18 New
        0
        Kupino IAP.In terms of anxiety, as the crews say about the cars. The team went on the air, everyone went out, the team started and steered through the UPC. They started and 4 cars steered. There is no kerosene ...
  • d.gksueyjd
    d.gksueyjd 23 September 2012 21: 50 New
    +3
    I offer my condolences to my relatives.
    Something Chubais was delayed, but it’s time.
  • mechanic11
    mechanic11 23 September 2012 22: 11 New
    0
    I well remember the interview where Grachev was outraged that some kid had a Mercedes, and why he shouldn’t. War is too serious a matter to trust the military, which confirmed Grachev’s behavior.