Military Review

US press: The problem with the Ukrainian Pion self-propelled guns is that Russian self-propelled guns are much more modern

63

In the event of a Russian invasion, the Ukrainian army can use the most powerful howitzer in the arsenal of the Armed Forces of Ukraine today, the 2S7 Pion, 203 mm caliber, against the advancing troops. However, the Russian army also has such self-propelled guns, and they are much more modern. This is a problem both for the Ukrainian "Peonies" and for the entire Ukrainian army. This is written by the author of an article for the American edition of Forbes, David Ax.


After the events of 2014, when Russian artillery destroyed the units of the Ukrainian army in the Donbass with ruthless fire, the command of the Armed Forces of Ukraine decided to open the old arsenals and bring to light giant 203 mm 2S7 Pion howitzers left over from the Soviet Union. To date, these are the most powerful artillery pieces in service with the Ukrainian army.

The 203-mm Pion self-propelled artillery mount entered service with the Soviet army in 1976 and was successfully used in military conflicts involving the Soviet Union. After the collapse of the USSR, part of the "Peonies" went to Ukraine and was eventually sent for storage, since the command of the Ukrainian army did not see options for using this powerful howitzer. However, the events of 2014 forced the Ukrainian military to remember this powerful weapon again. A number of self-propelled guns were sent to the Shepetovsky repair plant for overhaul.

Self-propelled howitzers 2S7 "Peony" have a firing range of 48 km, which significantly exceeds the range of conventional artillery, so it was decided to use them in the Donbass for counter-battery combat. Several Pion guns were spotted in the Donbass in 2016.

However, there is one problem for Ukrainian howitzers - these are Russian 2S7 installations, they are much more modern than Ukrainian ones and shoot much more accurately and faster. The thing is that the Russian army has upgraded the installations, equipping them with modern fire control systems that combine unmanned aerial vehicles, ground-based radars and electronic means of target detection. In addition, the Russians simply have more 203-mm self-propelled guns.

Thus, if the Russians nevertheless start an offensive, they will definitely take their giant guns with them, and it is completely unclear whether the Ukrainians will be able to stop them with their howitzers, the author sums up.
Photos used:
https://apostrophe.ua
63 comments
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  1. Nexcom
    Nexcom 31 January 2022 07: 11
    +10
    After the events of 2014, when Russian artillery destroyed units of the Ukrainian army in Donbass with ruthless fire,


    Did they get stoned again? Russian regular troops were not and are not there, but the LDNR has no doubt that such artillery is available.
    If we assume that there are Russian PMCs, then similarly - the same thing, it is unlikely that they have such artillery.

    Threat if the LDNR had such things, they would have smashed these Euro-Sumerian warriors to pieces.
    1. Civil
      Civil 31 January 2022 07: 17
      +13
      2S7 vs 2S7 ... what they carry, peonies are not intended for counter-battery combat ...
      1. Nexcom
        Nexcom 31 January 2022 07: 23
        +6
        Give them a side - just to blame. They are sick in the head. since 2014.
      2. IL-18
        IL-18 31 January 2022 08: 48
        +3
        it is completely unclear whether the Ukrainians will be able to stop them with their howitzers

        Well, if they have a Russian in the cinema, this is a Georgian (as the heroine positions herself) named Ksenia Sergeevna Onotop ...
        Are you talking about the battalion fight request
      3. Bad_gr
        Bad_gr 31 January 2022 10: 44
        -2
        Quote: Civil
        2S7 vs 2S7 ... what they carry, peonies are not intended for counter-battery combat ...
        But it is very convenient to shoot at cities with this gun (it has a large firing range, which means there is a chance to fire with impunity)
      4. Vintorez
        Vintorez 31 January 2022 16: 33
        +2
        Civilian (Vadim), what kind of guns are designed for counter-battery combat?
      5. hostel
        hostel 31 January 2022 18: 34
        +2
        Dear, why did the 203 mm guns of the unfinished cruiser Lyuttsov take part in counter-battalion firing during the defense of Leningrad, but Pion cannot do this?
      6. bk316
        bk316 1 February 2022 17: 53
        +1
        peonies are not intended for counter-battery combat ...

        Also how they are intended. And 2s7 and 2s5 and 2a36 were developed as a means of defeating tactical nuclear attack weapons, and only then for everything else. And among the means of nuclear attack, long-range artillery was considered in the first place. This was clearly hammered to me in the Mulin training as a commander of 2a36.
    2. maksbazhin
      maksbazhin 31 January 2022 07: 24
      +6
      14 - 15 showed once again: artillery is the God of war
      1. Pechkin
        Pechkin 31 January 2022 07: 37
        +15
        14 - 15 showed once again: artillery is the God of war
        Because they did not massively use aviation)
    3. Egoza
      Egoza 31 January 2022 07: 59
      +6
      Quote: Nexcom
      Did they get stoned again? Russian regular troops were not and are not there, but the LDNR has no doubt that such artillery is available.

      For them, everyone who shoots at the Armed Forces of Ukraine = the Russian army. They cannot understand how simple hard workers of the "best army in Europe" could resist. Well, then it is necessary to announce that the CIVIL WAR is on. But what about the "aggressor"?
      1. Nexcom
        Nexcom 31 January 2022 09: 00
        +5
        Yes you are right. By all indications, a civil war is going on in / in Ukraine.
        but Svidomo will never admit it. they are also provided with weapons and assistance for counter-terrorist operations and the fight against the aggressor. and they won’t give a shit for a civil war.
        1. OS OS
          OS OS 2 February 2022 19: 04
          0
          In Ukraine, according to the constitution, there can be no civil war.
      2. Vintorez
        Vintorez 31 January 2022 16: 30
        -4
        The hard workers of the army of the Armed Forces of Ukraine could not resist in any way. You draw conclusions.
    4. mlad
      mlad 31 January 2022 13: 16
      0
      Some kind of nonsense to write, only peonies will win, and they won’t have time to turn around, and without them everything will be fine.
  2. NSV
    NSV 31 January 2022 07: 23
    -8
    Beat the Ukrainians, save Russia !!!))) And why did the Soviet Army leave so much to the pan-headed army! (((
  3. kind
    kind 31 January 2022 07: 33
    +14
    The 203-mm self-propelled artillery mount "Pion" entered service with the Soviet army in 1976 and was successfully used in military conflicts involving the Soviet Union

    As far as I know, 2S7 was not used in any military conflicts. It was primarily imprisoned for nuclear BP "Kleshchevina", "Sapling", "Perforator". There were, of course, conventional ammunition. "Peony" entered service with artillery battalions of the reserve of the Supreme High Command to replace the 203-mm B-4 and B-4M towed howitzers.
    1. Pechkin
      Pechkin 31 January 2022 07: 52
      0
      During the war, on 08.08.08, ours seemed to take something like a trophy from the Georgians, so maybe they used it.
      1. serg.shishkov2015
        serg.shishkov2015 31 January 2022 08: 01
        +1
        we took everything from the Georgians - if sclerosis does not change 7 pieces - but we left only one for ourselves, for some reason, we don’t know
        1. Sally
          Sally 1 February 2022 03: 45
          +1
          In Karabakh, Azerbaijanis recently shone on the video.
  4. TerraSandera
    TerraSandera 31 January 2022 07: 33
    +12
    You take one and read what the army of the 21st century will fight with the army of the end of the 20th, and you understand that with large-caliber guns. And this is written by "analyst" C Forbes. And you are an ordinary couch expert surprised by the depth of their knowledge
  5. svoit
    svoit 31 January 2022 07: 35
    +3
    Quote: Nexcom

    Did they get stoned again?

    The article does not say that they were 2s7, in Ukraine they believe that they were fired upon by the Russian MLRS without crossing the border
    1. Nexcom
      Nexcom 31 January 2022 07: 44
      +11
      re-read the article. to be honest, I didn’t see anything about the shelling of Ukraine by Russian MLRS from the territory of Russia.
      What the Euro-Sumerians think is their problem.
      They have been "fighting" with regular Russian troops for almost 8 years now.
      1. nnm
        nnm 31 January 2022 08: 06
        +1
        Translation of the original full version of the article: https://inosmi.ru/20220131/gaubitsy-252788063.html
        1. Nexcom
          Nexcom 31 January 2022 08: 09
          -1
          Read. And even there there is nothing about the Russian MLRS with which our army thrashed Svidomo from its territory.
          1. nnm
            nnm 31 January 2022 08: 14
            +2
            Directly, whatever "from their territory" is not, but there is this:
            “During the fierce battles for Debaltseve in early 2015, Russian 2S7 and other large-caliber guns inflicted significant damage on Ukrainian troops. “Ukrainians claimed that for each of their volleys the Russians responded with 10-15 volleys,” notes an article in the Small Wars Journal magazine.
            It seems that the statement of the Ukrainian head of the general staff that Russia used two tactical nuclear weapons in the DAP is in fact either work on TOS (which is most likely) or Pion.
            It’s a pity that they didn’t finish off these punishers then
            1. Nexcom
              Nexcom 31 January 2022 08: 16
              +1
              And the Svidomo morally screwed up from these volleys, so much so that it seemed to them that everything was coming from the territory of Russia. Yeah. wassat
              Well, why drive such a "blizzard"?
              The LDNR may have MLRS (rather even trophy ones) - I will not doubt this.
              1. nnm
                nnm 31 January 2022 08: 19
                +1
                Well, in comparison with the previously mentioned statement of the HEAD OF THE GENERAL STAFF of Ukraine on the use of poisonous weapons, these are just flowers.
                1. Nexcom
                  Nexcom 31 January 2022 08: 21
                  +5
                  Ahhh, we have already gasped at them with nuclear weapons. laughing wassat
                  Obviously, their military commanders do not dry out, diluting the rare moments of enlightenment with wicked ganjubas. wassat
  6. HAM
    HAM 31 January 2022 07: 58
    +9
    The Americans have an interesting logic: “You, Ukrainians, are obliged to start a war. The Russian army will definitely smash and destroy you anyway, and we will cry a little and howl about this ... but we need this reason so much ... We will remember you. ...sometimes!" "Grandmas need to be worked off !! Clearly, sir!?"
  7. Egoza
    Egoza 31 January 2022 08: 06
    +2
    the events of 2014 forced the Ukrainian military to remember this powerful weapon again.

    It proves once again that Ukraine has nothing ITS new against SOVIET weapons! Remember you still the USSR.
    1. Nexcom
      Nexcom 31 January 2022 08: 12
      +3
      They will beg from the zaluzhny Boss. Only now they don’t want to understand that they are not just supplied with weapons. Once they put it - if you please, the Ukrainians will fight against Russia. And it doesn’t sway - you want it, you don’t want it, you can, you can’t. Until the last boy. Women were mobilized - that means even to the last girl.
  8. riwas
    riwas 31 January 2022 08: 14
    +8
    Self-propelled howitzers 2S7 "Peony" have a firing range of 48 km

    At such a range, due to the large dispersion of shells, it is advisable to shoot at areas controlled by shells (no one has such) or nuclear shells. Russia has the latter, but Ukraine does not, although Russia is unlikely to want to use them in Ukraine.
    I must say that this gun was created primarily for firing nuclear projectiles. In the Second World War, howitzers of this caliber were used to destroy long-term fortifications and buildings.
    1. Vintorez
      Vintorez 31 January 2022 16: 18
      -3
      Artillery never fires at squares, only at targets.
      1. stankow
        stankow 1 February 2022 02: 42
        +1
        Platoon strong point - areal target.
        1. Vintorez
          Vintorez 1 February 2022 15: 22
          0
          You yourself wrote that this is a goal and it is on the areal, but on a group basis. Read PsiUO, URUiOA.
  9. EXPrompt
    EXPrompt 31 January 2022 08: 15
    +1
    American experts certainly look like the one-eyed Zhdo from the joke.
    They see what is clear.
    The Armed Forces of Ukraine are technologically behind, at best, this is the army of the 80s of the 20th century. And the fact that the Ukrainians don’t even have close modern air defense capable of effectively shooting down cruise missiles, of which the Russian Federation has a lot, they certainly don’t see, again, Ukrainian air defense is not able to block the sky for attacks by the Russian Aerospace Forces from the word at all ... Of course, the Americans do not see. 2c7 Pythons are a good thing, but all of them will become war trophies in case of war, for such a conflict, artillery, even if of great power, is not a strategic weapon in our time.
    And in general, in the event of a real conflict with the Russian Federation, even the entire EU, there will not be enough strategic depth, what can we say about the small country of Ukraine.
  10. Vladimir 290
    Vladimir 290 31 January 2022 08: 25
    +8
    "In the event of a Russian invasion, the Ukrainian army can use the most powerful howitzer in the arsenal of the Armed Forces of Ukraine today - 2S7 Pion, 203 mm caliber, against the advancing troops." - in general, these Americans are not familiar with the materiel - 2S7 is a self-propelled gun, not a howitzer.
  11. Mobik
    Mobik 31 January 2022 08: 28
    +2
    Well, in principle, without nuclear shells, it’s just a big gun, not very accurate without modern guidance systems, never intended for counter-battery combat. But hitting residential buildings just right, a lot of destruction, a lot of victims and panic. There is no other practical application in this conflict.
  12. Cottodraton
    Cottodraton 31 January 2022 08: 39
    +4
    Western idiocy strikes. They have even decided who and with what weapons will fight!
    Schizophrenia and self-confidence.
    1. Nexcom
      Nexcom 31 January 2022 08: 52
      +3
      so they in the west have long imagined themselves as directors of everything and everything.
    2. suhorukofal
      suhorukofal 31 January 2022 12: 31
      +1
      Well, they are "scripts" and they write for Ukraine, they are not self-confident, but someone else dances to their wishes and fulfills their whims
  13. Ros 56
    Ros 56 31 January 2022 08: 47
    +3
    US press: The problem with the Ukrainian Pion self-propelled guns is that Russian self-propelled guns are much more modern

    What a stupid striped press. Well, how can you compare horseradish with a finger, as they say in Odessa, two big differences.
  14. Amateur
    Amateur 31 January 2022 09: 04
    +3
    What kind of idea is it necessary to measure pipka? Why conduct counter-battery fire with unpredictable results when there is ground attack aircraft or MLRS with a greater range than Peonies, for example Smerch?
  15. mihai_md2003
    mihai_md2003 31 January 2022 09: 27
    +2
    Everyone will not wait until the Slavic peoples begin to exterminate each other.
    1. voyaka uh
      voyaka uh 31 January 2022 11: 05
      +3
      Alas ... the Slavic peoples have long and cruelly exterminated each other.
      All the Balkan countries are essentially one Slavic tribe, historically divided by religion into several hostile states.
      And the hatred for the neighbors there is still going wild.
      What about the Polish-Russian wars? Genetically - two people indistinguishable from each other.

      One can take comfort only in the fact that in Western Europe it is the same.
      The British and Germans are the closest relatives (Angles and Saxons are Germanic tribes).
      1. mat-vey
        mat-vey 31 January 2022 13: 21
        +3
        Quote: voyaka uh
        One can take comfort only in the fact that in Western Europe it is the same.

        Also in the east...
      2. tikhonov66
        tikhonov66 31 January 2022 14: 04
        +1
        "... And the Polish-Russian wars? Genetically - two peoples indistinguishable from each other.
        ..."
        - As ?!
        so grite "Genetically - ... indistinguishable"?
        - Well, someone was pulling his tongue ... 8-))

        In the light of new genetic data, only Africans cannot be considered a single (genetic) community. Strictly speaking, this is not a race, but a collection of extremely early isolated (genetic) lines, some of which, in particular, Bushmen and Pygmies, oppose not only other African lines, but also all other human groups combined. All non-African groups in the world are descendants of ONE relatively late African (genetic) line [Tishkoff et al. 2009; Lachance et al. 2012].
        .
        The gene pool of Europeans, and in particular Russians, of course, is very diverse and differs from individual to individual, but IN GENERAL (for the population of each specific territory) it will consist of the SAME GENETIC COMPONENTS, but only taken in slightly different proportions. (http://haplogroup.narod.ru/gen.html)
        .
        Genetic differences at the DNA level between modern humans average 1 nucleotide in 1000 (i.e. 0.1%), and between humans and chimpanzees - 1 nucleotide in 100 (i.e. 1%), and between humans and MOUSE ... - only 20-30%
        ...
        We are all relatives on planet Earth...
        8-))
        1. voyaka uh
          voyaka uh 31 January 2022 14: 09
          +2
          "these are descendants of ONE, relatively late, African (genetic) line" ///
          -----
          Discovered America! All primitive people, in several waves, came out of Africa. smile
  16. rotmistr60
    rotmistr60 31 January 2022 09: 55
    +1
    Is it only in "Peonies" that the problem of the Ukrainian army is? If it is necessary to force Ukraine to peace, these problems will rain down like hail not only on the Armed Forces of Ukraine, but also on the weak Ukrainian economy. The American author clearly liked the name of the self-propelled guns, since he focused the attention of readers on it.
  17. grandfather_Kostya
    grandfather_Kostya 31 January 2022 10: 06
    +1
    Another Yankee opus on the topic: "There will definitely be an offensive, it remains to discuss the details!" Discussing the details, the first thesis about "it will definitely be ..." is thrown around.
  18. ERsytype
    ERsytype 31 January 2022 12: 09
    -2
    Another pseudo-expert?
  19. Andrew 18.11
    Andrew 18.11 31 January 2022 15: 03
    0
    You can all write any nonsense about guns, tanks, planes for free.
    But the Forbes magazine analyst writes nonsense for money.
    This is a big difference.
    You mock him that he is stupid, and he just feeds his family.
  20. Reklastik
    Reklastik 31 January 2022 15: 05
    +1
    Damn, I already thought that in the photo is a humanoid transformer robot)))
  21. svoit
    svoit 31 January 2022 15: 19
    0
    Quote: Nexcom
    Read. And even there there is no mention of Russian MLRS with which our army beat Svidomo from its territory

    this phrase
    After the events of 2014, when Russian artillery destroyed units of the Ukrainian army in Donbass with ruthless fire,

    So they believe that it was across the border without crossing it. (MLRS - also art)
  22. Maxim Shalak
    Maxim Shalak 31 January 2022 22: 13
    +1
    There are no Ukrainian Peonies. There are Soviet ones. Old.
  23. Alexander Salenko
    Alexander Salenko 1 February 2022 09: 58
    0
    And what are the modern Russian self-propelled guns with a caliber of 203 mm? And the difference between 203 and 152 is not very small.
  24. Alexey Brylev
    Alexey Brylev 1 February 2022 14: 23
    0
    The Russians will definitely take their big guns)))))))) Here we will put up more of our 2С7 against their 2С7 and we will win this)))))
  25. Bogalex
    Bogalex 1 February 2022 19: 25
    0
    Self-propelled howitzers 2S7 "Peony"

    No.
    "Peonies" and "Malki" are guns, not howitzers ...
    Where the hell are you getting them from...