“We will show you how it was in 1945, and we will show you how it was in 1990”: the mutual rhetoric of Russia and NATO is beginning to resemble a bad action movie scenario

106

“Just try to stick your head in - we will arrange this for you ... it won’t seem enough”, “Just come closer - we will count all your teeth.”
On both sides of the borders of Russia and NATO, there is increasing talk of the threat of war. When each of the parties to a hypothetical military conflict threatens the opponent with "active actions." Moscow promises the West a “second 1945”, the West promises Russia a “new 1990”.

There are constant statements about the transfer of troops, about an increase in the concentration of forces and means, about more and more new military exercises. They are already trying to put 79-year-old Joe Biden into military cards so that he himself can understand "how big the Russian threat is." On Russian TV talk shows, military experts and those who consider themselves to be such are trying to declare that Russia today is more powerful than ever, that the army can defeat any enemy almost in a matter of hours. Still would. Combat lasers, hypersound, nuclear torpedoes, "Sarmat", "Bulava" and more, more.



But when such rhetoric continues for weeks, when, against its background, humanity is forced to solve pressing problems, including the fight against the pandemic and the tasks of economic recovery, then all this takes on the format of a “soap opera”. As Konstantin Semin says in the issue of Agitprop, everything is starting to look like a script for a bad action movie.

30 British Rangers in Ukraine, 4 Danish fighters in Lithuania, a Spanish ship in the Black Sea. If not enough, NATO promises to transfer someone else somewhere ...

About the mutual threats of Russia and NATO in the plot of the aforementioned "Agitprop":

106 comments
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  1. -13
    24 January 2022 13: 27
    Moscow Promises “Second 1945” to the West

    If my memory serves me right, in 45 it was the USSR together with the West (consider the entire NATA, except Germany and Italy (we don’t count Romania, Hungary and the Balts)) defeated the Nazis. What is there to show?
    1. +29
      24 January 2022 13: 52
      I will disappoint you, memory is cheating on you. Almost the entire united Europe fought against us. And even those who did not fight physically contributed by working for the Germans. The "allies" in the form of small Britain and FSA helped both yours and ours, and in the end they fit in when the winner had already been determined, and it was necessary to prevent the USSR from subjugating all of Europe.
      Now everything is exactly the same, except that the modern Russian Federation is not the USSR!
      1. +4
        24 January 2022 14: 57
        Quote: Kayala
        Now everything is exactly the same, except that the modern Russian Federation is not the USSR!

        and the fact that the EU is not fascists .. but apart from the amers - none of them especially climbs to the Russian Federation with bases and missiles and doesn’t want to climb + Biden is far from Hitler .. so the analogy from 1945 is so-so .. very stretched .. in fact, no one wants to fight with the Russian Federation, unlike Hitler in 1941 .. and why the classic war, which the Russian Federation never won? The USSR then won the economic war .. I think to climb into a real war with us - there are no special dubs in the West ...
        1. -9
          25 January 2022 08: 46
          Look again at Biden and fears will disappear by themselves. For a long time now, there have been no Trumans, Reagans, or even Bushes in the Western leadership. Even the cheeks no one can decently inflate. Is it possible to let the "whisperer" at the reception. Both America and NATO are absolutely impotent.
        2. +8
          25 January 2022 11: 30
          No one wants to fight with the Russian Federation. But at the same time he wants someone to fight.
      2. -3
        24 January 2022 15: 32
        Quote: Kayala
        And even those who did not fight physically contributed by working for the Germans

        The same Czechs riveted weapons to the Germans until May 9th. For fsyu war is not a single act of sabotage
        1. -2
          24 January 2022 18: 54
          For fsyu war is not a single act of sabotage
          But the Germans spit in beer!
          1. -2
            24 January 2022 19: 26
            Quote: Azis
            But the Germans spit in beer!

            And who saw
      3. -13
        24 January 2022 23: 29
        Partially agree!
        What it means
        modern Russia is not the USSR
        ?
        1. +14
          25 January 2022 05: 42
          Quote: EMMM
          What it means
          modern Russia is not the USSR
          ?

          This means that the Russian Federation is an antagonist state of the USSR, moreover, it is incommensurably weaker than the USSR. Is this really incomprehensible to anyone?
          1. -1
            30 January 2022 20: 14
            Yes, that's not true!
            If the whole West took up arms against the Russian Federation, then the object is worth special attention
            1. +2
              30 January 2022 21: 07
              Quote: EMMM
              Yes, that's not true!

              Not a fact what? What is the antagonist of the USSR or what is incommensurably weaker than the USSR? Just the same, both of them are a fact, regardless of whether you like it or not.
              1. 0
                1 February 2022 00: 00
                Yes, the fact is that the elephant barks at Moska, who is not going to bite him
      4. -4
        24 January 2022 23: 46
        I will disappoint you, memory is cheating on you.
        Just memory betrays you
        "Allies" in the form of small Britain and FSA helped both yours and ours
        And you can also remember two mustachioed Germans with their attitude to the "nation of bankers and bakers." And at the same time, calculate the economic potential ....
      5. +5
        25 January 2022 13: 02
        And even those who did not fight physically contributed by working for the Germans. The "allies" in the form of small Britain and FSA helped both yours and ours, and in the end they fit in when the winner was already determined.


        In general, England fought with Hitler for the longest time and the USSR still managed to supply resources to Hitler while the war was going on between Germany and England, and Molotov criticized the British for the war against “Hitlerism”.
        And the allies immediately began to help us, British tanks managed to light up in the battle near Moscow (at a time when every tank counted), but Lend-Lease actually allowed large-scale offensive operations to be carried out, without it the war would definitely have gone on for at least a couple years longer and most likely ended in a shaky “draw” at best along the borders of the USSR.
        Even the Soviet history books never talked about allies like your comment did.
    2. +9
      24 January 2022 14: 00
      If my memory serves me right, in the 45th it was the USSR together with the West (consider the whole NATA, except for Germany and Italy (we do not count Romania, Hungary and the Balts)) defeated the Nazis
      Actually, the USSR just defeated NATO, the spill of 1945. In reality, several countries fought against fascism - Great Britain, Greece, and Serbia (namely Serbia and not Yugoslavia, because the Croats, Slovenes, Macedonians and Bosnians at the beginning of 41 years enthusiastically rushed to cut the Serbs and Montenegrins, and then massively enroll in the SS divisions .... ) and that's it. The rest of Europe fought against us, even France fought. 72 people fought in Normandy-Niemen!!! (14 pilots and 58 aircraft mechanics)!, and the famous FrenchResistance it was 90 percent Jews, Armenians, Moroccans, 60 were Spanish Republicans who fled the Franco regime to fight the Nazis, 000 were German communists, 2 rebels were Soviet citizens ........ curtain.
      1. 0
        24 January 2022 23: 42
        Sir, where did you study history?
        What is the contribution of Britain to the results of the 2nd World War?
        And what did Greece do and there is no information at all.
        And if you managed to drive through Croatia by car not along well-maintained roads, but through mountain forests and flatlands, you would understand that the Yugoslav partisans were above nationality or faith.
        From your post, it follows that the Ukrainians entirely served the invaders!
        I have to disappoint, most of them fought in the Red Army, and then in the SA!
        1. -6
          24 January 2022 23: 47
          Did you study history?
          1. +3
            25 January 2022 00: 26
            Fortunately, taught
            1. -5
              25 January 2022 08: 23
              Fortunately, taught
              Which is immediately visible in the top three ..
              1. 0
                30 January 2022 19: 52
                Considering that I have a red diploma, in which the discipline "History of the CPSU" is "excellent", then you are probably right.
                But when we left the highway in Croatia and drove through a mountain forest and a war-torn valley (instead of returning to Rijeka on the advice of the police and going straight to Plitvice from there), we freely communicated with the Croats in a mixture of our languages ​​and were received very hospitably.
                1. 0
                  30 January 2022 22: 13
                  Considering that I have a red diploma, in which the discipline "History of the CPSU" is "excellent"
                  You can not continue further ...
        2. +2
          25 January 2022 17: 24
          EMMM - And the Croatian, namely the CROATIAN Yasinovets concentration camp, where the CROATS destroyed more than 600 Serbs, this is not taken into account in your "history" right?
          1. 0
            30 January 2022 19: 57
            A concentration camp in Croatia and Hrvatski are two different things. Concentration camps in the occupied territory of the USSR, where former citizens of the country served - are these Soviet concentration camps?
            I want to note right away that our internal repressions are not subject to discussion in this chat.
            1. 0
              31 January 2022 04: 02
              EMMM - Before you write nonsense, at first you would still ask who organized this concentration camp and who purposefully destroyed the Serbs in it. And it turns out that you are speaking on a topic about which you have not the slightest idea, because Jasinovets is precisely the CROATIAN camp. The Catholic Church also took part in its activities. namely, they gathered Serbian children there, rebaptized them according to the Catholic rite and immediately killed them, declaring that "God needs the righteous." Croatia, as an ally of Hitler, escaped punishment only because Tito himself was an ethnic Croat.
              1. +1
                31 January 2022 23: 55
                Thanks for the history lesson. I didn't know about this particular page.
                Sincerely, because I respect true lovers and connoisseurs of history
                1. +1
                  3 February 2022 07: 02
                  EMMM - I apologize for the harshness I allowed in our conversation, it's just that recently there has been a clear tendency to blame everything on the Germans and in every possible way obscure the "merits" of other European peoples. The guilt of Nazi Germany is obvious and undeniable, but practically all (except the Serbs) peoples of Europe took no small part in the aggression against our country. So the well-known motorized division of the SS "Viking" was formed from volunteers from Scandinavia, including from Norway occupied by the Germans and "neutral" Sweden. Romanian, Spanish, Italian, Hungarian military units fought against the Red Army throughout the south of our country from Odessa to Stalingrad and Voronezh. The Finns actively participated in the blockade of Leningrad, their large-caliber artillery shelled the city, and Italian speedboats sank food barges on Ladoga. Even occupied Poland fought against our country - more than 600 Poles served in the Wehrmacht. The Czech military industry worked for Hitler in three shifts, with enthusiasm and without a single strike. "Brothers" Bulgarians fought against the Serbian partisans and carried out punitive operations against the local population in Serbia. The French fascist volunteers are also well known - it was they who fanatically defended government buildings in the already doomed Berlin from our army.
                  And now, as if by itself, the very term "fascism" disappeared from the media, it sounded: "Nazism". And Nazism is the Germans of course. but how. shall we say Romanians? They are certainly not "Aryans". This is the substitution of concepts, just one word was replaced, and immediately the whole of fascist Europe, except for the Germans, appears "white and fluffy".
                  1. +1
                    3 February 2022 22: 38
                    Not a problem!
                    And I completely agree with the substitution of concepts. Mussolini's Fascist Italy is not the Nazis. Ukrainian Nazis are not fascists...
                    You can continue for a long time, but I think that you have known all this for a long time. One detail, if I remember correctly, the Croatian battalion was also in the USSR, naturally not on our side. But as for the term Serbian partisans, I believe you are wrong: after all, they were Yugoslav partisans.
    3. -2
      24 January 2022 14: 45
      But didn’t these helpers from the Germans in the Ardennes get it? And from the secondary parts? The Allies contributed, but it was Soviet troops who mostly fought. But against us, the whole of Europe was just fighting.
      1. -3
        24 January 2022 19: 20
        The "allies" made a minimal contribution to the fight against Germany. They made money on the supply of weapons. Let me remind you of the words of "Friend of the Soviet People" - Franklin Delano Roosevelt. "If we see that the Germans are winning, we will need to help the Russians, if we see that the Russians are winning, we will need to help the Germans. Let them kill and weaken each other more, the post-war world should belong to the Anglo-Saxons." - This is the USA. Although it was the United States that bore the war against Japan in the Pacific.
        France. The French massacred their own Jews. Without the help of the Germans, although what is expected from France after the "Dreyfus affair", we note this rather shameful case was in FRANCE, and not in Kaiser's Germany or the Austro-Hungarian Empire, and in the same France they screamed about the "Wise Men of Zion" (as well as in the Russian Empire). Much more French fought on the side of the Reich than on the side of the anti-Hitler coalition. Suffice it to say that Berlin and the Reichstag were defended by the FRENCH SS Troops. French factories regularly riveted everything for the Germans - from boots to trucks, artillery and aircraft engines.
        Scandinavians: Deliveries of strategic materials. Volunteers for SS divisions.
        Bulgaria: Acted on the side of the Reich. With such "Brothers" you begin to understand Kain.
        Portugal: Neutrality, but neutrality friendly to the Reich. It was through Portugal that American oil went to the Reich.
        Spain: Neutrality friendly to the Reich. Supplies to the Reich also went through Spain. The "Blue Moon" division was sent, in the sense of the "Blue Division" of VOLUNTEERS sent to the Eastern Front.
        The Poles: at first they wanted to attack the USSR in alliance with Germany. They began to show off, raked from the Germans. Then they regularly worked at German enterprises and ALSO supplied volunteers to the SS Troops and the Wehrmacht. Their "resistance" fought against everyone and against each other.
        We have already talked about the Czechs. Although I don’t really blame CHEKHOV. During the centuries of their stay in the Austro-Hungarian Empire, they became quite German. Many spoke fluent German. And the Germans did not particularly commit atrocities on Czech territory. Even the murder of the governor of the Czech Republic was not carried out by the "Czech resistance", but by the British special forces (by the way, the shaves worked perfectly), but the Czechs then raked from the Germans when the British special forces, having completed the task, safely faded away.
        So the USSR had NO worthwhile allies. Against Japan, yes. It was there that the United States showed all the power it is capable of
        1. +3
          24 January 2022 21: 37
          Baron Pardus (Dmitry)
          The "allies" made a minimal contribution to the fight against Germany. They made money on the supply of weapons. Let me remind you of the words of "Friend of the Soviet People" - Franklin Delano Roosevelt. "If we see that the Germans are winning, we will need to help the Russians, if we see that the Russians are winning, we will need to help the Germans. Let them kill and weaken each other more, the post-war world should belong to the Anglo-Saxons." - This is the USA.
          Well, actually, it seems like it was not Roosevelt who said it, but Truman:
          Truman's dictum is known, which he made a few days after the attack of Nazi Germany on the Soviet Union, published in the New York Times on June 24, 1941:

          If we see that Germany is winning, we must help Russia, if Russia is winning, we must help Germany and thus let them kill as many as possible, although I do not want Hitler to win under any circumstances. None of them think about their promised word.
        2. +4
          24 January 2022 23: 49
          "If we see that the Germans are winning, we will need to help the Russians, if we see that the Russians are winning, we will need to help the Germans.
          Truman said it was funny.
          Let them kill and weaken each other more, the post-war world should belong to the Anglo-Saxons."
          And here you lie like an impudent sax ...
        3. +7
          25 January 2022 00: 34
          2.7 million tons of bombs, tens of billions of military aid, battles in Africa, Italy, the Atlantic, the Mediterranean and of course in France, apart from convoys, were minimal. And about well earned in more detail.
        4. +5
          25 January 2022 00: 42
          For their survival, they sent thousands of military weapons to the USSR by steamships.
          The same Spitfire, Airacobra.
          Add Studebakers and Jeeps.
          As for the tanks that were delivered, I didn’t understand - I don’t know!
          In addition, the "second front" was not deprived of our army. The soldiers laughed, but ate and were full.
          1. -9
            25 January 2022 01: 28
            Here from this place in more detail. HOW MANY Spitfires did the British send and WHEN? And what brands? and in what condition. As far as I read, they sent those who were removed from service and, as a rule, not in a new condition.
            Tanks? M3 tin can medium? Or Matilda with a 40mm cannon that did not have an HE shell? Or maybe Valentine with the same gun? Or a Valentine with 57mm who didn't have an HE shell either? More details. Shermans? Oh yes, those with a 75mm cannon that fired 75mm shells from a French WWII cannon? How many Shermans were sent with 76.2mm? Aerocobras? The ones that the British abandoned? Or maybe the Wunderwaffle P40? Yes, the A20 was good - HOW MANY did they send? B25 was good? How many have been sent. You see, it is much easier to send more or less mediocre weapons, in a more or less worn condition, than to fight on them.
            1. +8
              25 January 2022 06: 03
              Products Deliveries from the USA Deliveries from the British Empire Manufactured in the USSR
              (1941-45) Ratio
              (supply/production)
              Aircraft 11 over 400 7000 157%
              Armored vehicles (tanks, self-propelled guns, armored personnel carriers) 12 000 6564 105%
              Cars 427 284 5232 265 600 163%
              Locomotives 1977 4 825%
              Motorcycles 35 170 1721 27 216 136%

              It's gross. You can read about the quality of technology in the historical section of this portal. There are tons of articles on this subject.
              1. -7
                25 January 2022 06: 27
                I asked you for specific numbers, about SPECIFIC aircraft and tanks. Well, yes, in theory, the M3 Lee is also a "tank". But he did not stand next to the T-34 or Pz4. About the "Pterodactels" Hurricanes did not write only the lazy, even here. I ask HOW MANY SPITTFIERS, WHAT MODIFICATION AND IN WHAT CONDITION? As far as I read, few Spitfires were brought in. Mostly modifications of the Mk V and Mk IX. They were VU, that is, not brand new from the factory. (Unlike the American Aircobras and Kitty Hawks which were exactly NEW from the factory). I'm NOT saying that Land Lease didn't help. (Although M3 Lee helped someone, ours or the Germans still need to see). But I repeat once again, it is much easier to supply weapons (especially BUSH) than to fight ourselves.
                1. +4
                  25 January 2022 06: 43
                  I say - look in the historical section. At least here: https://topwar.ru/22588-sovetskie-asy-na-istrebitelyah-lend-liza-chast-4spitfayry.html
                2. +5
                  25 January 2022 06: 46
                  In a tank, not only cannon and armor are important, but also handling, suspension, engine power reserve, and so on. I hope it is not necessary to prove that the Western assembly is of the best quality. As an infantry support tank, the M3 was quite suitable if it had nothing better. On comparable panzers, the Germans completely reached Moscow
                  1. +1
                    25 January 2022 18: 43
                    Well, I would not say that M3 Lee can be compared with Pz4 or even later modifications of Pz3. Of course, you are right that not only armor and a gun are important. But Lee did not have any normal armor or a normal gun. I repeat, in terms of ballistics, the gun on Lee was comparable to the French 75mm of the WWI era, even the shells fit. The 37mm gun was minimally useful. Well, it was still the barn. That is, it was a self-propelled gun at the level of early modifications of the SHTUG, only the size of a barn. And with cardboard armor. Although the radios were good.
                    I read good reviews about Valentine with a 57mm cannon. Both mothers and valentines with a 42mm cannon (2 pounds) were practically useless. Later versions of PZ 4, PZ 3 and SHTUG did not penetrate 2 pounds. There was no HE shell at all.
                    Enough has also been written about Hurricane and P40. About the fact that the Spitfires arrived FAR NOT new - too. Although the Spitfire was the BEST fighter of World War II. But we received few of them, and BUSH ones.

                    The Germans reached Moscow because of the better organization of their troops, better interaction, but at the same time thanks to the banal sabotage of some SA generals. As one of the SA generals said to another before the war (I don’t remember who exactly), “If the Germans come, it won’t be worse for me or you.” Well, not only the Trotskyist and nationalist underground tried, but the very ideology of Trotskyism turned out to be a persistent poison when the Red Army refused to shoot at "German class brothers." Well, the promotion of national personnel could not but worsen the situation. A lot has also been written about the mess with the equipment and organization of the SA. A lot has also been written about the poor quality of Soviet AP shells, and at the same time optics and radio. Yes, the DESIGN of the sights in the T-34 was excellent, only the glass was cloudy, which turned green over time and through which little was visible at all.

                    You can write about the quality of avi engines, gasoline (there was no high-octane) for a long time. Where could they come from if in the bakery, neither the chemical industry for the production of high-octane gasoline, nor their own aircraft engines AT ALL (about 3 dozen manually assembled aircraft engines do not count). When the Great October Revolution destroyed the semi-medieval obscurantism of tsarism, it turned out that not only literacy was 27%, but there was practically no heavy and chemical industry, and what was was destroyed either by the White Guards or the interventionists.

                    The fact that by 41 was what it was, despite the opposition of the counter and all sorts of Trotskyist and other elements, the sabotage and wastefulness of some elements of the intelligentsia - this is a miracle that became a reality only thanks to Stalin.
            2. 0
              30 January 2022 20: 10
              Well, yes, Pokryshkin fought on the "second hand"!
      2. -1
        25 January 2022 08: 22
        You would have studied the question before writing nonsense ... How did the battle end and what "minor parts" were there laughing
    4. +3
      25 January 2022 05: 33
      You don't. But the guys below learned history from coloring books from Solovyov TeVe. What they are going to show has already been shown in the film "72 meters".
    5. -1
      25 January 2022 15: 16
      the whole thing takes on a soap opera format. As Konstantin Semin says in the issue of Agitprop, everything is starting to look like a script for a bad action movie.

      Some Semin still appeared, as the ultimate truth. request
      Let this specialist answer who stands at whose gates, the United States near Russia or Russia on the threshold of the United States?
  2. +20
    24 January 2022 13: 31
    Of course, it is very reminiscent of a fight between two gangs. And, of course, as one said later in 1990, we would give them more if they caught up with us. Here, only in Russia they forgot that the coach of the team in 1945 was a man, the Generalissimo, whom the feudal lords strongly hate by the name of Stalin. And the one who created the country in which the team was created and the playing field that they talk about on the planet is the man who changed the world and his name is Lenin.
    1. +3
      24 January 2022 13: 55
      Quote: zenion
      Here, only in Russia they forgot that the coach of the team in 1945 was a man, the Generalissimo, whom the feudal lords strongly hate by the name of Stalin.

      And people like Stalin and Lenin are not expected in this century.
      1. +6
        24 January 2022 14: 06
        These are rare even in the millennium!
        1. The comment was deleted.
          1. +2
            25 January 2022 08: 42
            Quote: ak1978
            I assure you, you will feel the taste and smell of the Stalin USSR that died in the bose.

            Are you sure that in the USSR in all periods there was nothing but the cellars of the Lubyanka? And in the USA, for example, there was no civil war and slavery? A convenient proof is to pull out some historical event, period and claim that this has always been the case in the country. lol
          2. 0
            25 January 2022 09: 51
            Quote: ak1978
            I assure you, you will feel the taste and smell of the Stalin USSR that died in the bose.

            Since you write like that, it means that you yourself spent time in the camps, you have experience.
        2. +1
          25 January 2022 08: 38
          Quote: Dmitry Potapov
          These are rare even in the millennium!

          And that is true. But no one knows in advance when they will appear. So... What if the 21st century gets lucky?!
      2. -2
        24 January 2022 19: 08
        As for Lenin, I would not say. Lately I've been reading a lot of his quotes. His fixation on the "rights of small nationalities" and the "Fight against Great Russian chauvinism", his frank flirting with these "small nationalities" without understanding their peculiarities of mentality look extremely ridiculous. Well, the organizations of the "national" republics, and then their subsidies and the pushing of "national cadres" to all places, regardless of the abilities of these "national cadres", could not but play their destructive role. However, they are jumping on the same rake in the USA and now they are promoting people not according to their ability, but according to their "oppression": colored people, LGBTQ Shizu, women, illegal immigrants. At least Stalin began to correct Lenin's jambs, but the party elite did not give him.
      3. The comment was deleted.
        1. +1
          25 January 2022 08: 47
          Quote: ak1978
          Comrade Lenin (Ulyanov) I remember on the third day of March signed the obscene Treaty of Brest-Litovsk, along the way recognizing the independence of the UNR, Finland, Courland and Livonia with Revel. And the great coach Comrade Stalin (Dzhugashvili) simply destroyed the Russian genotype in great fractures and mediocre wars.

          But now Russia is great, and the territory is larger and the people are dark, and friends can not be counted! laughing And the Russian genotype is rushing from all the cracks: from McDonald's, burgers, creatives, "I pay taxes", etc. winked
    2. +3
      24 January 2022 14: 23
      who, even in 45, understood that without the allies of the Red Army it would be difficult to finish off the Nazis.
      1. -5
        24 January 2022 15: 16
        That's where these fool how do you crawl out? Do you broadcast from Tsegabonia?
        After Operation Bagration, the Army Group Center practically ceased to exist.
        And yet, Comrade Stalin personally told you what he understood? Are you into spiritualism?
        1. +1
          25 January 2022 05: 43
          For those who studied history on the exam http://hrono.ru/libris/stalin/sc44_06.html

          Quote: "No. 274

          SECRET AND PERSONAL FROM PREMIER J. V. STALIN TO THE PRIME MINISTER, Mr W. CHURCHILL

          Your message about the success of the start of operations "Overlord" learned a little. It pleases us all and gives us hope for further progress.

          The summer offensive of the Soviet troops, organized in accordance with the agreement at the Tehran Conference, will begin by mid-June on one of the important sectors of the front. The general offensive of the Soviet troops will be deployed in stages through the successive introduction of armies into offensive operations. At the end of June and during July, offensive operations will turn into a general offensive of the Soviet troops.

          I undertake to inform you in a timely manner of the progress of offensive operations.

          6 June 1944 years. "

          This is Comrade Stalin just about "Bagration"
        2. -4
          25 January 2022 06: 29
          Yuliana Semenova read, a well-known story, about attempts to conclude a separate peace of the allies with the Germans
        3. +2
          25 January 2022 06: 33
          how irritated I am by such comrades ... I just pissed me off in the morning. Our Berlin and Prague were taken with huge losses.
          And think about what would happen if the Germans from the western front transferred 15 divisions to the east, and from Italy the group was transferred to the eastern front! A?! Our losses could have been a multiple higher, or they could have stopped to regroup, pull up reserves, and it’s generally not known what would happen.
          1. -2
            25 January 2022 18: 36
            Quote: kaufman
            And think about what would happen if the Germans from the western front transferred 15 divisions to the east, and from Italy they transferred the group to the eastern front! A?!


            What to guess. In May 1943, the British fought with 4, 5 divisions of the Wehrmacht (and then half of the GG division was thrown when the Yankees appeared in Morocco in November 1942). So they didn’t really hold back (Greece and Yugoslavia fought with more than a dozen German divisions). And at the time of the Battle of Kursk in LL, we received only 4% of all deliveries. And on the arc we broke the back of the Germans. And by the way, when the Nemchura fled to the Dnieper, they threw 5 divisions (3 - Manstein, 2-Model). And the Dnieper was not kept.
            Quote: kaufman
            Our losses could have been a multiple higher, or they could have stopped to regroup, pull up reserves, and it’s generally not known what would happen.

            Aha! After the Kursk Bulge, everything went in one direction - the Germans scrambled. 15 German divisions in Italy held off the Allies until Overlord, and then in northern Italy until April 1945.
            I must admit that they fought (especially the British) badly.
            1. -3
              26 January 2022 05: 56
              I won’t dispute that the Britons fought rather weakly, it’s true. But the Nazis fought to the end
  3. +2
    24 January 2022 13: 34
    “We will show you how it was in 1945, and we will show you how it was in 1990”: the mutual rhetoric of Russia and NATO is beginning to resemble a bad action movie scenario
    . The fight, it seems, was ordered ... but who exactly is READY to get involved in it, this is a question that has nothing to do with the militant rhetoric of the majority.
  4. +8
    24 January 2022 13: 37
    A bad peace is sometimes better than a good war. While a new cold one begins, no one wants it to go into a hot one. And, indeed, nuclear arguments deter participants from concrete action.

    I do not deny that it may still be necessary to fight. I don't want to, really. I remember the quote "War nobody wanted. War was inevitable" by Barbara Tuckman about the First World War from her book "The Guns of August".

    And yet, even the article points out the difference in the approaches of the conflicting parties. We are told: "we will scare you, you yourself will fall apart (as in 1991)". We answer: "Poke your nose, we will break you in full (as in 1945)".
    So, until the approaches come to a common denominator, the state of "no peace, no war" will continue!
  5. +1
    24 January 2022 13: 45
    Quote: avib
    Moscow Promises “Second 1945” to the West

    If my memory serves me right, in 45 it was the USSR together with the West (consider the entire NATA, except Germany and Italy (we don’t count Romania, Hungary and the Balts)) defeated the Nazis. What is there to show?

    It would probably be more correct to consider who and what contribution was made during the defeat.
    "together with the West" - who did you mean?
    And it may happen that many of them put more effort and money into complicity with Nazi Germany in the confrontation with the USSR. Rather, it is so. Therefore, the USSR fought against almost all of Europe, to be honest.
  6. +4
    24 January 2022 13: 47
    “Just try to stick your head in - we will arrange this for you ... it won’t seem enough”, “Just come closer - we will count all your teeth.” On both sides of the borders of Russia and NATO, there is increasing talk of the threat of war. When each of the parties to a hypothetical military conflict threatens the opponent with "active actions." Moscow promises the West a “second 1945”, the West promises Russia a “new 1990”. There are constant statements about the transfer of troops, about an increase in the concentration of forces and means, about more and more new military exercises.

    There will be no war. When someone prepares to attack someone, he does it discreetly, using the entire mayor of secrecy. And when they make a lot of noise, it's just a show-off to show who is cooler.
    Yes, and a war between NATO and the CSTO is fundamentally impossible, due to the presence of thermonuclear weapons capable of glassing the entire planet. They will make some noise, measure themselves, raise patriotic dust and calm down. Yes
    1. +2
      24 January 2022 14: 43
      Here .... I have to disagree.
      The modern world is such that it is impossible to keep the transfer of troops secret - everyone has a phone in his pocket - a video camera with access to the World Wide Web. Moreover, it is necessary to morally prepare the population for war, to obtain legitimation for such an intervention yourself.
      PS Especially since in the Russian Federation no one was making noise about the transfer of troops, they were making noise in the west.
      1. -2
        24 January 2022 15: 12
        The modern world is such that it is impossible to keep the transfer of troops secret - everyone has a phone in his pocket - a video camera with access to the World Wide Web.

        Pavel, in the modern world with modern technology, a conditional "victory" can only be achieved through a leading, sudden, massive thermonuclear strike against the enemy! And only then you can transfer large connections, if there are any left ... at least they will have nothing to do in the radioactive desert.
        Since the hype has risen, the main factor is surprise, it does not play, and accordingly there will be no attack.
        Moreover, it is necessary to morally prepare the population for war, to obtain legitimation for such an intervention yourself.

        You can't prepare a well-fed Western citizen for self-destruction. Yes, and legitimation will not be needed! After a fleeting general thermonuclear war, few will remain, he will absolutely not be up to idle talk ...
        1. +6
          24 January 2022 20: 05
          Quote: pytar
          There is no way you can prepare a well-fed Western citizen for self-destruction.

          So a well-fed citizen is not prepared for war, they are simply frightened by war.
          1. +4
            24 January 2022 20: 46
            So a well-fed citizen is not prepared for war, they are simply frightened by war.

            Yes, and not satisfying scare! So that he tightened his belt and did not grumble against the authorities! "War is on the threshold, the enemy is at the gates, it's about to attack..." - divert attention from his internal problems!
            1. 0
              24 January 2022 21: 08
              Quote: pytar
              Yes, and not satisfying scare! So that he tightened his belt and did not grumble against the authorities!

              That's for sure. But nothing can scare us anymore.
              1. +4
                25 January 2022 00: 03
                But nothing can scare us anymore.

                But the authorities are frightened by you! laughing Internal Troops, Russian Guard, etc. already approaching the number of Ross. army. On internal tasks, there are many times more security forces involved in percentage than on countering external threats. bully
                1. -1
                  25 January 2022 09: 49
                  Quote: pytar
                  But the authorities are frightened by you! Internal Troops, Russian Guard, etc. already approaching the number of Ross. army.

                  So Bandera and ISIS with various other terrorists, someone needs to be caught.
                  1. +4
                    25 January 2022 11: 05
                    So Bandera and ISIS with various other terrorists, someone needs to be caught.

                    If these colossal funds going to law enforcement agencies would be spent on improving the welfare of citizens, then there would be fewer extremists. A good government fights against the causes of discontent, while a bad one fights against those who are dissatisfied.
                    1. -1
                      25 January 2022 12: 44
                      Quote: pytar
                      A good government fights against the causes of discontent, while a bad one fights against those who are dissatisfied.

                      And where did you see her, she was good.
                      1. +2
                        25 January 2022 13: 05
                        And where did you see her, she was good.

                        Power is not a spouse, so that you can live with it all your life and endure what it was not! Yes, and in marriage, if they do not get along, they get divorced! Changeable power is relatively good because it can be changed! You can make it work /and/ in your interest. There are no absolutely good authorities, but more or less successfully, the factor of forcing the government to work in the interest of the whole society works where there is democracy! True, there are different democracies, somewhere more successful, somewhere less. hi
                      2. -2
                        25 January 2022 13: 09
                        Quote: pytar
                        There are no absolutely good authorities

                        The monarchy is an ideal power, where you do not need to choose go..otov, and spend the people's money on it. Whomever you choose, everything will have to change.
                      3. +4
                        25 January 2022 13: 38
                        Monarchy is the ideal power...

                        Because of the degenerate kings, most kingdoms and empires collapsed! If the king is good, there is no guarantee that his son will not be an idiot! And there is no way to change it...
                        ... where you don't have to choose go..otov...tsya.

                        It's true, you don't have to choose, they themselves are born like that - go with the "blue blood"!
                        If you don't want to choose go otami, don't be go otami! Choose wisely the best among you!
                        They also need to be changed periodically, because power corrupts, changes a person from time to time, not for the better. She's like a drug.
                        Whomever you choose, everything will have to change.

                        Is your faucet leaking at home? Do you change it or continue to walk with wet slippers? Of course, after a while, the nova can also leak, we change it too!
                      4. -1
                        25 January 2022 15: 36
                        Quote: pytar
                        Choose wisely the best among you!

                        We wanted the best, but it turns out, as always. And who will let you choose the best, whoever you need will be chosen. There in Ukraine there were 6 presidents in a short time and they always chose the "best" but it turned out "as always", one is worse than the other.
                        Or maybe in the USA with this case better?
                      5. +2
                        25 January 2022 18: 24
                        Who do Ukrainians, Americans, etc. choose? I'm not to judge. Maybe they are good for them! And if not, you can change them, you don’t have to wait all your life! We have chosen one of the best for the president, by the way, he had worthy opponents! As for the prime minister, the former was not bad, but in the last elections, as part of fierce competition, he lost. We are watching the new one! If it does not justify the trust, we will remove it! If needed, early!
                      6. -1
                        25 January 2022 19: 28
                        Quote: pytar
                        If it does not justify the trust, we will remove it! If needed, early!

                        If the owner allows.
                      7. +1
                        25 January 2022 20: 09
                        It may be so with you, but we do not have owners, we decide for ourselves what and how.
                      8. -1
                        25 January 2022 20: 45
                        Quote: pytar
                        It may be so with you, but we do not have owners, we decide for ourselves what and how.

                        Do you live in the same EU, like me, but appoints the EU at the behest of the owner "out of a puddle"? And in the Baltic republics, how many came from the United States, they appointed "we have the penultimate president, the one who lived somewhere in Europe for 13 years, and she was not on the list of candidates, but entered the presidency. What uncles decide" from there " You now have a voice like all of us, only an advisory one.Others think for us.
                      9. +3
                        25 January 2022 22: 38
                        I have completely different impressions. And I think the EU is the best thing that happened in Europe in its entire history.
                      10. The comment was deleted.
                      11. -2
                        26 January 2022 06: 31
                        Quote: pytar
                        I have completely different impressions. And I think the EU is the best thing that happened in Europe in its entire history.


                        Also when Hitler occupied the whole of Europe, the best thing too.
                        Although it is better for someone, someone worse, but when they brought an invoice for an apartment instead of 245 euros for 518 euros: I had such joy that my hands itched.
                        And while NATO is run by American generals, and not by Bulgarian and Estonian ones, it is premature to talk about freedom.
                      12. +1
                        26 January 2022 10: 06
                        Also when Hitler occupied the whole of Europe, the best thing too.

                        Dear, membership in the EU is voluntary, you can withdraw from it if you wish! Here the UK held a referendum and left! And many want to become members! No one is dragging anyone with tanks in the EU!
                        Although it is better for someone, someone worse, but when they brought an invoice for an apartment instead of 245 euros for 518 euros: I had such joy that my hands itched.

                        My bills have gone up this month too! Everything has risen in price! So all over the world! Governments have printed billions of dollars of money to cover the deficit created by the pandemic. That's inflation as a result! What is the EU to blame for you? Wherever you live, you'd get higher bills!
                        And while NATO is run by American generals, and not by Bulgarian and Estonian ones, it is premature to talk about freedom.

                        Compare the entire "armies" of the countries you specified with the American one! Where, when did you see some kind of allied army commanded by the commander of a small detachment?!
                      13. 0
                        26 January 2022 10: 25
                        Quote: pytar
                        My bills have gone up this month too! Everything has risen in price! So all over the world!

                        Well, you don't have such prices for gas and electricity in Bulgaria as we do. In Estonia, gas for private consumers is 1,27 euros per cubic meter, and in February the price will go up again. But it makes no sense for Estonia to leave the EU, not the economy, not the country where there are minerals. I'm not really complaining, but it's super hard for a lot of people. But let's be optimistic. Sincerely.
                      14. +1
                        26 January 2022 10: 53
                        Well, you in Bulgaria do not have such prices for gas and electricity as we do.

                        With all that, the rise in price is very noticeable! It would have been even more, but the new government and Parliament immediately announced a moratorium on energy price increases. Bravo to them for this! good But the companies supplying gas and electricity are dissatisfied, the moratorium will probably not last long, at least some kind of softening pillow turned out. There is also a speculative rise in price! I still 2 months ago I noticed a strange thing! Accounts before the rise in price, came a few lower than before! It was illogical, because we were entering the winter season and consumption is increasing! I suspect that the companies have rewritten part of the consumed quantity from the previous to the new month at the new prices! belay
                        But it makes no sense for Estonia to leave the EU, not the economy, not the country where there are minerals.

                        This is understandable, only in a large economic union can one survive, international competition is increasing, conditions are becoming tougher!
                      15. 0
                        26 January 2022 11: 12
                        Quote: pytar
                        With all that, the rise in price is very noticeable! It would have been even more, but the new government and Parliament immediately announced a moratorium on energy price increases.

                        In our country, too, the parties demand a moratorium from the government, but the prime minister and his comrades refused. The EKRE conservatives held a big rally and impeached the prime minister and her government. But so far have not received a response. But the guys there are persistent father and son (the chairman of the party) are persistent. Small firms leave the market, cafe restaurants almost stop. Small countries of 1,3 million people cannot survive without help from the EU.
                      16. +1
                        26 January 2022 16: 11
                        Authorities rarely go to voluntary retreats. The people must force them! No other way!
            2. Aag
              -2
              24 January 2022 23: 46
              Not a contradiction to themselves?
              Reread your last three comments...
              1. 0
                24 January 2022 23: 58
                Not a contradiction to themselves? Reread your last three comments...

                What exactly?
            3. 0
              25 January 2022 15: 25
              Quote: pytar
              enemy at the gate

              With the "enemy at the gate", you correctly noted this.
    2. 0
      25 January 2022 09: 09
      Let's at least not mention the CSTO in vain, except in jokes. You still would have remembered the CIS (still operating).
  7. 0
    24 January 2022 14: 14
    What happened in 19945 knows the whole world. And what happened in 1990?
    1. -2
      25 January 2022 15: 29
      Quote: Amateur
      What happened in 19945 knows the whole world. And what happened in 1990?

      In the 90s there was a betrayal of Russia's interests by the political elite.
  8. +7
    24 January 2022 14: 27
    Why break spears now... By May it will already be clear what all this performance is for and what is the price of the Kremlin's ultimatums to the West. Price for the people of Russia.
  9. +4
    24 January 2022 14: 36
    Quote: 72jora72
    If my memory serves me right, in the 45th it was the USSR together with the West (consider the whole NATA, except for Germany and Italy (we do not count Romania, Hungary and the Balts)) defeated the Nazis
    Actually, the USSR just defeated NATO, the spill of 1945. In reality, several countries fought against fascism - Great Britain, Greece, and Serbia (namely Serbia and not Yugoslavia, because the Croats, Slovenes, Macedonians and Bosnians at the beginning of 41 years enthusiastically rushed to cut the Serbs and Montenegrins, and then massively enroll in the SS divisions .... ) and that's it. The rest of Europe fought against us, even France fought. 72 people fought in Normandy-Niemen!!! (14 pilots and 58 aircraft mechanics)!, and the famous FrenchResistance it was 90 percent Jews, Armenians, Moroccans, 60 were Spanish Republicans who fled the Franco regime to fight the Nazis, 000 were German communists, 2 rebels were Soviet citizens ........ curtain.


    I support !!!!!
    My great-grandmother remembered the French for a long time, who stood with the Nazis until about 1943. Actively caught frogs and ate them. Ask where?
    Poltava region, Ukraine....
  10. +4
    24 January 2022 15: 12
    On both sides of the borders of Russia and NATO, there is increasing talk of the threat of war.

    who is speaking?
    On a talk show

    hi
  11. -9
    24 January 2022 19: 20
    The "allies" made a minimal contribution to the fight against Germany. They made money on the supply of weapons. Let me remind you of the words of "Friend of the Soviet People" - Franklin Delano Roosevelt. "If we see that the Germans are winning, we will need to help the Russians, if we see that the Russians are winning, we will need to help the Germans. Let them kill and weaken each other more, the post-war world should belong to the Anglo-Saxons." - This is the USA. Although it was the United States that bore the war against Japan in the Pacific.
    France. The French massacred their own Jews. Without the help of the Germans, although what is expected from France after the "Dreyfus affair", we note this rather shameful case was in FRANCE, and not in Kaiser's Germany or the Austro-Hungarian Empire, and in the same France they screamed about the "Wise Men of Zion" (as well as in the Russian Empire). Much more French fought on the side of the Reich than on the side of the anti-Hitler coalition. Suffice it to say that Berlin and the Reichstag were defended by the FRENCH SS Troops. French factories regularly riveted everything for the Germans - from boots to trucks, artillery and aircraft engines.
    Scandinavians: Deliveries of strategic materials. Volunteers for SS divisions.
    Bulgaria: Acted on the side of the Reich. With such "Brothers" you begin to understand Kain.
    Portugal: Neutrality, but neutrality friendly to the Reich. It was through Portugal that American oil went to the Reich.
    Spain: Neutrality friendly to the Reich. Supplies to the Reich also went through Spain. The "Blue Moon" division was sent, in the sense of the "Blue Division" of VOLUNTEERS sent to the Eastern Front.
    The Poles: at first they wanted to attack the USSR in alliance with Germany. They began to show off, raked from the Germans. Then they regularly worked at German enterprises and ALSO supplied volunteers to the SS Troops and the Wehrmacht. Their "resistance" fought against everyone and against each other.
    We have already talked about the Czechs. Although I don’t really blame CHEKHOV. During the centuries of their stay in the Austro-Hungarian Empire, they became quite German. Many spoke fluent German. And the Germans did not particularly commit atrocities on Czech territory. Even the murder of the governor of the Czech Republic was not carried out by the "Czech resistance", but by the British special forces (by the way, the shaves worked perfectly), but the Czechs then raked from the Germans when the British special forces, having completed the task, safely faded away.
    So the USSR had NO worthwhile allies. Against Japan, yes. It was there that the United States showed all the power it is capable of
    1. 0
      25 January 2022 16: 03
      Let me remind you of the words of "Friend of the Soviet People" - Franklin Delano Roosevelt. "

      It was not F. Roosevelt who said this, but at that time the senator, but the future president G. Truman
  12. Aag
    +2
    24 January 2022 23: 35
    Authoraaa!!!!!
    How many stuffings from both sides already!...(it seems that both beneficiaries are profitable...and then bad thoughts come...)...
    1. -1
      25 January 2022 15: 38
      Quote: AAG
      Authoraaa!!!!!
      How many stuffings from both sides already!...(it seems that both beneficiaries are profitable...and then bad thoughts come...)...

      Please specify what stuffing from Russia?
      1. Aag
        +1
        25 January 2022 16: 01
        Quote: Terenin
        Quote: AAG
        Authoraaa!!!!!
        How many stuffings from both sides already!...(it seems that both beneficiaries are profitable...and then bad thoughts come...)...

        Please specify what stuffing from Russia?

        "... On Russian TV talk shows, military experts and those who consider themselves to be such are trying to declare that Russia is more powerful than ever, that the army can defeat any enemy almost in a matter of hours ..."
        Or, when in the media (for example, Vesti FM radio) they spend hours discussing any information that later turns out to be a rumor, or someone's private opinion.
        1. +1
          26 January 2022 23: 28
          Quote: AAG
          Quote: Terenin
          Quote: AAG
          Authoraaa!!!!!
          How many stuffings from both sides already!...(it seems that both beneficiaries are profitable...and then bad thoughts come...)...

          Please specify what stuffing from Russia?

          "... On Russian TV talk shows, military experts and those who consider themselves to be such are trying to declare that Russia is more powerful than ever, that the army can defeat any enemy almost in a matter of hours ..."
          Or, when in the media (for example, Vesti FM radio) they spend hours discussing any information that later turns out to be a rumor, or someone's private opinion.

          I meant there are no official representatives of the Russian authorities with such questions, unlike the first persons of Western states.
  13. +2
    25 January 2022 19: 08
    Moscow Promises “Second 1945” to the West
    Can you provide a link to who said this and where?
  14. 0
    26 January 2022 00: 40
    In the current situation and with the current development of the situation, according to the scheme by which the Russian Federation is developing at the moment ... in 10 years, the United States (NATO) without any problems, the Russian Federation will once again detail, as it used to be with the USSR. There are enough internal levers. I don't want to list everything. Now their task is to gain time by maintaining the current situation, while maintaining the system that exists now in the Russian Federation. If for this you need to play along with Vova with a small controlled but beautiful mess, then they will do it.
  15. -1
    26 January 2022 09: 17
    Quote: kaufman
    And think about what would happen if the Germans from the western front transferred 15 divisions to the east, and from Italy the group was transferred to the eastern front!


    And if my grandmother had one thing, then she would become a grandfather.
    And what if the USSR had signed a separate peace with Germany in 1944 after Hitler had been physically removed by his subordinates as a result of a successful assassination attempt? And the Germans would have transferred one and a half hundred divisions to the Western Front? Where would the Anglo-Saxons with their Montgomery and Patton end up?
    You can fantasize a lot, but from such an onanism it carries, albeit only mental.
    So it's better to do without "if only, if only".
  16. -1
    26 January 2022 09: 26
    Quote: Shlepa
    And about well earned in more detail.


    As a result of WWII, the US will have 50% of the world's gold, the US GDP will be 40% of the world (fortunately, the economies of other developed countries will be in a deplorable state), the dollar in Bretton Woods will become the world's reserve currency.
    All the costs of "lend-lease" - on the shoulders of taxpayers. And for corporations - profit from profitable government orders (Lend-Lease is a state program) for weapons, equipment, etc. The bankers associated with the FRS also did not lose out ... it was during the war period that governments (not only the United States) were especially willing to take loans.