Bulgaria intends to revive submarine forces amid events in Ukraine

Bulgaria confirmed plans to revive the submarine force as part of fleetmissing from the country since 2011. According to Bulgarian Defense Minister Stefan Yanev, the Ministry of Defense is considering the option of purchasing two diesel-electric submarines.

The Bulgarian Ministry of Defense has unveiled plans to purchase two submarines from the fleet of a NATO country, whose name has not been disclosed. According to Yanev, the government has no money for absolutely new submarines, but they promised to find funds for two submarines in "good technical condition". The need for submarines appeared against the backdrop of the situation in Ukraine.

The first statements about the intention to revive the submarine forces were made at the end of 2019. Then it was about the possible purchase of submarines decommissioned by Norway. The number of submarines planned for purchase was not named, but according to the information available at that time, it was about one submarine.

Now the military does not disclose with whom they are negotiating, but the Bulgarian press suggests that negotiations are underway with Germany. This version is supported by the fact that Sofia recently ordered a pair of patrol ships from the German company Lürssen Werft based on the Braunschweig-class corvette project.

There have been no submarine forces in the Bulgarian Navy since 2011, when on November 11, at the main naval base of the Bulgarian Navy in Varna, a ceremony was held to lower the naval flag on the last submarine in the Bulgarian fleet - Slava. The medium diesel-electric submarine of project 633 "Slava" was built at the Krasnoye Sormovo shipyard for the Soviet Navy in 1959-1960 as S-36 and entered service with the Soviet fleet on September 30, 1960. December 28, 1985 was transferred to the Bulgarian Navy and became part of the Bulgarian 8th separate division of submarines as "Glory" (tail number 84) based in Varna.

Comments

[Russian German]

How will the brothers pay? Peas and pepper, as with the USSR, will no longer work. The gas pipeline was not allowed to enter. Outflow of the population. Where are the pennies?

[svp67]

Quote: Russian German

How will the brothers pay?

Money, as I understand it, the euro ..

[ser-pov]

Quote: Russian German

How will the brothers pay? Peas and pepper, as with the USSR, will no longer work. The gas pipeline was not allowed to enter. Outflow of the population. Where are the pennies?

Here the question is different - what for them submarines? Another superpower looms...

[pytar]

Here the question is different - what for them submarines? Another superpower looms...

Is there a sea? There is! Accordingly, there is a Navy, and the Navy also needs submarines.

[gurzuf]

If there is no money for a new one, then how to maintain a used one? After all, it is not in vain that they say that we are not so rich as to buy cheap things.

[pytar]

If there is no money for a new one, then how to maintain a used one? After all, it is not in vain that they say that we are not so rich as to buy cheap things.

So the majority of the army in the world does not use new equipment, including the Russian Federation! It is important here what condition the specific equipment will be in and what will be the costs for it? The MoD deals with these issues, and presents its analyzes and conclusions to the Parliament. And then Parliament decides.

[gurzuf]

RF Armed Forces use not a new its equipment, for the replacement of which it buys in the military-industrial complex its country a new its technique. Do you get the meaning?

[pytar]

The Armed Forces of the Russian Federation do not use their new equipment, to replace which it buys new equipment from the military-industrial complex of its country. Do you get the meaning?

Do you actually know that not all countries produce all kinds of weapons? You have to buy abroad, and if possible, cooperate, produce under license, etc.! Here we will build frigates under a license at our shipyard, recently there was an article here at VO. And, excuse me, we have never built submarines, like most countries of the world.
By the way, even the Russian Federation bought weapons from outside!

[DymOk_v_dYmke]

Quote: ser-pov

Here the question is different - what for them submarines? Another superpower looms...

Another junk country is looming.

[pytar]

How will the brothers pay?

Bulgaria's GDP for 2020 amounted to 60,5 billion dollars. It has been growing from 10-3% for 4 years. After a downturn during covid, it started to grow again. Foreign exchange reserves 28 billion euros. In terms of the ratio of GDP to external debt, Bulgaria is in 2nd place in the EU, that is, the country has a very low debt, incomparably less than in the days of socialism. I have money, don't worry...

Peas and pepper, as with the USSR, will no longer work. The gas pipeline was not allowed to enter. Outflow of the population.

Bulgaria has everything you need. The country is developing successfully. And the whole white race has a problem with demographics. By the way, emigration in recent years has begun to turn into immigration! More and more Bulgarians are returning to the country, and among young Bulgarians the percentage of those wishing to emigrate has dropped sharply. Yes, and those who once went to work in a foreign country retain their Bulgarian citizenship. Bulgaria, Bulgarians were, are and will be!

[Russian German]

Do not be offended, but these are modest indicators - a little better than Ukrainian ones. And the influx of population, according to my information, is not at the expense of the Bulgarians, but at the expense of the Germans and other Western European pensioners: it is beneficial for them to receive a German pension, and spend it in cheap Bulgaria (or Portugal). So not much to brag about. Your warriors could not find money for the "licensed" repair of the MIG-29. Something like this...

[pytar]

but these are modest indicators - a little better than Ukrainian ones.

Normal performance, and guaranteed to improve. Ukraine is a big country, but it also has huge debts. And we live within our means, the economy and the financial system are stable.
The largest number of newly received Bolg. citizenship comes from the Russian Federation. Over the past few years have increased by 5 times. But it is not migrants that are of decisive importance, here reverse migration is planned - Bulgarians who once left the country begin to return. Unfortunately, the birth rate is catastrophic, and this is the main problem. In general, demographic problems specifically with the Bulgarian ethnic group began in the mid-50s, when collectivization was carried out. I am glad that now I see more and more young families with 2-3 children. The Bulgarian people will!

So not much to brag about.

I'm not bragging, I'm reporting the facts!

Your warriors could not find money for the "licensed" repair of the MIG-29. Something like this...

What the hell??? Where are you getting this from???

[suhorukofal]

Demographics you say? I googled about 7, even at 000 there were more, and it grew until the 000s, until the collapse of the USSR. What interesting statistics, what interesting coincidences. I know that you will answer that I know nothing and is far from the topic, here you have true and indisputable knowledge and, in general, "himself"

[pytar]

Demographics you say? I googled about 7, even at 000 there were more, and it grew until the 000s, until the collapse of the USSR. What interesting statistics, what interesting coincidences. I know that you will answer that I know nothing and is far from the topic, here you have true and indisputable knowledge and, in general, "himself"

You don't know the details. The figures you cite refer to the general population. Bulgarians, Turks, Gypsies. So during the social period, starting from the mid-50s, all the growth was generated by national minorities. The Bulgarian ethnos has moved to near-zero indicators. The country was closed, attempts to emigrate were punished as treason. Immediately after the 90s, when the walls fell and the country went into an economic crisis, many emigrated. The aging of the population, emigration has sharply reduced the number of inhabitants. With the improvement of well-being, the process slowed down and there is already a reverse trend.
Whatever it was, the article is not about demographics, here we are talking about submarines!

[expert]

Dear "pytar", I want to add about emigration.
By the nature of my work, I am constantly in contact with Bulgarian citizens living and working in Germany. Great people. Workaholics. Many are in their 40s and 50s. We started everything from scratch here. They take and perform, often the most unpopular work. They also bring children. Since they have problems with the German language, we communicate with almost everyone in Russian. Brothers!

[pytar]

Emigration is a forced phenomenon, through which most countries of the world passed, at one time or another. Thank you for the kind words about my fellow members! I want to clarify that a significant part of guest workers from Bulgaria belong to the gypsy ethnic group. But they also work very consciously.

[expert]

As for forced emigration, this is on point.
My family and I were forced to leave Moldova in 1995. I can say lucky.
Settle in Germany

[pytar]

May God bless you and your family with health and prosperity! And may one day Moldova recover and you will return to it! I think if Moldova enters the EU, the recovery will happen quickly! Moldovans are extremely hardworking people, I respect them very much!

[suhorukofal]

Quote: pytar

You don't know the details.

Which is to be expected. To this I wrote:
[

Quote: pytar

So during the social period, starting from the mid-50s, all the growth was generated by national minorities.

A frank lie, the table with the Bulgarian data is too large, I will insert the data specifically for the Bulgarians
National Statistical Institute

Population by place of residence, gender and ethnic group.
1956 - 55.5% Bulgarians
1965 - 87.9%
1975 - 90,9%
1992 - 85,7%
2011-83,9%

What else can you invent and fantasize? I have numbers, you have a fantasy.

Quote: pytar

Whatever it was, the article is not about demographics, here we are talking about submarines!

So what difference does it make to you about what fairy tales come up with?

[pytar]

Population by place of residence, gender and ethnic group. 1956 - 55.5% Bulgarians...

I don’t know where you’re digging this nonsense from, but it has nothing to do with reality! I dealt with demographic issues professionally. Personally participated in several recounts of the population. I even prepared an article for VO, but somehow I lost the desire to publish here ... And in general, everyone is free to sign up as they want, in general, it is not necessary to indicate their ethnicity! Many gypsies, for example, are recorded as Bulgarians, so they want to do it.

So what difference does it make to you about what fairy tales come up with?

I don't care, but the rules of the site say that off-topic comments are a flood! And I didn’t notice that when you discuss military equipment they switched to demographics! And then you Alexey decided to compose! Okay, I'll stick to the topic under which we write, and you do whatever you want ...

[Russian German]

Calm down about the nationalities inhabiting Bulgaria. Your publications on VO deserve respect. But where are the documents you refer to? And the denial of the scandalous conflict with the repair of the MIG-29 raises the question: how often do you read VO?

[pytar]

Calm down about the nationalities inhabiting Bulgaria.

I am absolutely calm about our nationalities. All my compatriots love Bulgaria.

Your publications on VO deserve respect.

Thank you!

But where are the documents you refer to? And the denial of the scandalous conflict with the repair of the MIG-29 raises the question: how often do you read VO?

I read and comment on all articles on VO related to my country! As far as I know, I didn't miss a single one! There you will find detailed explanations from me on the case with the MiG-29. In general, the conflict arose due to several non-compliance with the terms of the contract on the part of RAC Mig! The Bulgarian side pays the money as expected, the RSK has no financial claims against it! And the terms of RSK Mig are not fulfilled due to intra-company logistical problems. By the way, RSK has already paid several hundred thousand euros of forfeits, and the terms have been rescheduled. As an example, the ladies of the Belarusian Plant in Baranovichi, where the Bulgarian Su-25s were repaired with the highest quality, and received a special gratitude award from the Bulgarian Ministry of Defense!

[suhorukofal]

Quote: pytar

And I didn’t notice that when discussing military equipment they switched to demographics

I'll refresh your memory with your own expression:

Quote: pytar

By the way, emigration in recent years has begun to turn into immigration!

Quote: pytar

I don’t know where you’re digging this nonsense from, but it has nothing to do with reality!

The same can be said about your words. Defeat the argument with reference to the data, until it all comes down to one thing - I know .., I participated, you are all talking nonsense ..., outright nonsense, notion ... Here is the level of your arguments, reinforced concrete arguments, you can’t argue, this is not what any statistics or research.

[pytar]

So this is the answer to your comment about demographics! Do you read what you write? Okay, stop distracting me and others from the topic!

[Seryoga64]

Quote: pytar

We are talking about submarines here!

Well, with whom are you going to fight?

Bulgaria intends to revive submarine forces amid events in Ukraine

Will you wait for Russia to attack you?

[pytar]

Well, with whom are you going to fight?

Most countries, among which Bulgaria maintains an army, are guided by the old Roman postulate Si vis pacem, bellum for.

Will you wait for Russia to attack you?

I don’t understand why you associate everything that happens somewhere with Russia ?! And here is Russia? It is all the countries in the world that are updating and maintaining their armies, whoever can and with what finances they have!

[Seryoga64]

Quote: pytar

Most countries, among which Bulgaria maintains an army, are guided by the old Roman postulate Si vis pacem, para bellum

You still haven’t answered who will attack the incoming country and surrounded by NATO member countries?
NATO members?

I don’t understand why you associate everything that happens somewhere with Russia ?! And here is Russia?

Let's quote the title of the article

Bulgaria intends to revive submarine forces amid events in Ukraine

Or what other events are taking place around the outskirts?

[pytar]

You still haven’t answered who will attack the incoming country and surrounded by NATO member countries? NATO members?

Nobody is going to attack Russia. No one is so crazy as to blow up the whole planet and himself dear ...

Let's quote the title of the article - Bulgaria intends to revive submarine forces against the backdrop of events in Ukraine

The Defense Ministry has been planning to buy submarines since 2010, a year before our last submarine Slava was decommissioned. And the situation around Ukraine has escalated recently. It is close to our borders, this is a reason to think about whether the BG of the Navy can ensure the security of the Bulgarian coast and the economic zone in the Black Sea? We are not going to enter into conflict, but we must guard our borders!

[Seryoga64]

Quote: pytar

Nobody is going to attack Russia.

Yes? And why did they encircle Russia with a ring? Why do NATO planes fly a little every day near our borders? I am already silent about NATO ships

And the situation around Ukraine has escalated recently.

So where is the outskirts, and where is Bulgaria ?????????
Why should we attack you??????
What do you have that we don't????
And yet, we are not the kind to butt heads with Nata alone

[pytar]

And why did they encircle Russia with a ring? Why do NATO planes fly a little every day near our borders? I am already silent about NATO ships

How many of you are there in geography? And what does "near our borders" mean? They fly near their borders, swim! You are also around Europe, America, Asia, Africa, and generally everywhere! What is the problem if someone's border is not crossed illegally? And how do you imagine "Nat's attack on the Russian Federation" ???

So where is the outskirts, and where is Bulgaria?

The closest distance is only 180 km. Ukraine is the largest of the Bulgarian diasporas. The place of compact residence is only 200 and 600 km away.

Why should we attack you?

And who says it???
The article says:

The first statements about the intention to revive the submarine forces were made at the end of 2019.

Which is not true at all! And the aggravation of the situation in Ukraine prompted all neighboring countries to accelerate plans for the modernization of the Armed Forces. Wherever there are conflicts, neighboring countries are arming to enhance their security!

[Seryoga64]

Quote: pytar

Which is not true at all! And the aggravation of the situation in Ukraine prompted all neighboring countries to accelerate plans for the modernization of the Armed Forces.

So you are afraid that Rogssia will attack everyone?
So Russia has not gone to war with the outskirts for 8 years, although every week they tell everyone that we are about to attack
And your card is TUFTA. No direct land border
And if it comes to that, how many km are the rocket on the drum.
and used boats will not save you.

[pytar]

So you are afraid that Rogssia will attack everyone?

We are not afraid. The probability is near zero. The situation is this ... Bulgaria refused to accept the reinforced NATO presence on its territory.
I summarize: "Near Ukraine, the situation has escalated, this is near our borders. We do not agree that NATO should transfer equipment from us, but we will upgrade our aircraft."

And your card is TUFTA. No direct land border

For that, the sea border is more than 400 km. Here are the submarines ... they don’t go on land.

And if it comes to that, how many km are the rocket on the drum.
and used boats will not save you.

If it comes to this, the Earth will turn into a glassy mass. And everyone will die, the few survivors will envy the dead. So there will be no war.

[VORON538]

2 used diesel engines and Bulgaria is a great maritime power :))) That's right, the Bulgarian taxpayer is simply obliged to support the military-industrial complex of other countries, for example, Germany :))) Have you found admirals yet? :)))

[Stepan S]

Admirals already found? :)))

From Ukraine, by barter, they will take a dozen or two admirals, they also had their own submarine fleet, and there are plenty of admirals

[pytar]

That's right, the Bulgarian taxpayer is simply obliged to support money in such a difficult time for the military-industrial complex of other countries, for example, Germany :))) Have you found admirals yet? :)))

Artem, Bulgarian taxpayer patriot! He is ready to willingly give money to the Army, Navy and Air Force! I even resent that our governments do not pay due attention to the Army, and limit the military budget to the minimum! For the difference from other state structures, the Armed Forces are the most authoritative, universally respected institution in Bulgaria!

[VORON538]

A good Bulgarian patriot is obliged to feed the burgher :))) There is some truth in every joke!

[pytar]

A good Bulgarian patriot is obliged to feed the burgher :))) There is some truth in every joke!

Not in every one. Some "jokes" are so remote from reality that there is not a grain of truth in them.

[marat2016]

If Bulgaria bought submarines in the Russian Federation, then you would be the first to say exactly this way "Bulgaria is a great maritime power and it cannot live without submarines!" :)))) By the way, in the late 80s, an order for "Varshavyanka" was supposed, do you think that this is Zrada ?!

[pytar]

If Bulgaria bought submarines in the Russian Federation, then you would be the first to say exactly this way "Bulgaria is a great maritime power and it cannot live without submarines!"

Exactly!

Vitaly, respect to you!

[Woodman]

The need for submarines appeared against the backdrop of the situation in Ukraine.

Something I didn’t understand what happened in Ukraine, that Bulgaria needed submarines?

[NDR-791]

These are so special, for the wide steppes.
Or maybe we don’t know something and dug up another sea there, that is experience.

[Egoza]

Quote: Lesovik

Something I didn’t understand what happened in Ukraine, that Bulgaria needed submarines?

So far, nothing has happened. In the meantime, Bulgaria will gather, then there will be no need to revive anything. But there is an excuse for the United States. "We tried and even the fleet was going to revive."

[dzvero]

Exactly. Knowing our people, I dare to assume that it will be like this: in 2019 they announced their intention, in 2022 they confirmed the statement of intent, in 2025 they will announce the first tender, then the second, then the debate, then knock out money ... and there is a non-zero probability in 2030 to start over.

[pytar]

...and there is a non-zero chance of starting over in 2030.

In the next 2 years we will buy submarines, do not hesitate. Question 1 or 2. Most likely 2 s is sufficient service life. They will undergo modernization and enter the fleet. Definitely!

[pytar]

Something I didn’t understand what happened in Ukraine, that Bulgaria needed submarines?

The anonymous author of the article composed some things. Plans for updating the aircraft, announced long ago, cover large periods of 10-20 years and are updated every year.
The intention to buy submarines was recorded in them a long time ago, at least 10 years ago. There are other ships, there are already concluded contracts. The update takes place simultaneously in the Navy, Ground Forces and Air Force.

[expert]

That's it, exactly.
And purely hypothetically, how would the alignment of forces in the Black Sea be drastically changed if Ukraine had as many as two submarines?
Naturally, Russia, having not treacherously attacked, would immediately capitulate.
I think this is what the strategists from Bulgaria think

[ancestors from Don]

It is interesting against whom the torpedoes and missiles of the submarines of the "grateful" Bulgarian people will be directed, is it really against those to whom they owe the fact of their existence.

[Cat Alexandrovich]

Yeah, they will seep under the Bridge to Azov! And they will influence!

[pytar]

It is interesting against whom the torpedoes and missiles of the submarines of the "grateful" Bulgarian people will be directed, is it really against those to whom they owe the fact of their existence.

Against every aggressor who decides to encroach on our state! The Bulgarian military doctrine has a selective character. Aircraft perform a protective function, and the costs for them are several times lower than during ATS.

[suhorukofal]

During the Warsaw Pact, Bulgaria was integrated into a single economy, received financial support within the framework of the CMEA. Here's an anecdote for you:
A group of tourists visiting a clay whistle factory in Bulgaria.
- Why do you need a million whistles a year? the tourists asked.
- For every whistle, Mongolia gives us a ram.
- And what do you do with a million sheep?
- For each ram, the GDR gives us an electric motor.
- What do you do with electric motors?
- For each engine, Czechoslovakia gives us a tractor.
- But isn't a million tractors a year too much for you?
And now you are a sales market for Europe, so keep your fables of ripping off the police department to yourself.
- For these tractors, the USSR gives us clay for whistles.
We hear from everyone that everyone did nothing but feed Russia, now these breadwinners are begging themselves

[pytar]

During the Warsaw Pact, Bulgaria was integrated into a single economy and received financial support.

And went bankrupt twice. The social system has proved its inefficiency. Shas Bulgaria has integrated into the EU, is developing relatively well, without concussions.
And the joke is funny!

[suhorukofal]

Quote: pytar

And went bankrupt twice

In what years did Bulgaria fail to pay its debts and "go bankrupt"? So it is called a default, if anything.

[pytar]

Yes, exactly, the default! In the 60s, foreign debt reached such proportions that the country could no longer service loans. Then Todor Zhivkov decided to sell the gold reserves /somewhere around 30 tons of gold/, thus saving his own power.
As it turned out temporarily... In 1989-90, the situation of the sleepy slid down to a catastrophic one. It was necessary to pay ~1 billion dollars per annum, and only 200-300 million dollars remained in the Khazna. In 1990, a default was officially announced / a moratorium on debt payments /. Frenzied inflation unfolded, well ... the situation was like after a lost war ... It was going to the second default, but then they gathered their hands in time and in 1997 introduced a currency board! From that moment began with the recovery of the financial system. The Bulgarian currency was first pegged to the Deutschmark, and then to 2x1 euros. And Bulgarian lev. has not changed its course for 20 years. All left banknotes are backed by the same amount of euros in vaults. This turned out to be very useful for the economy, as it removed the temptation for governments to print money without security for populist purposes.

[impostor]

It would be better if an LNG terminal was built and several gas carriers were bought

[pytar]

It would be better if an LNG terminal was built and several gas carriers were bought

And it will be. Already completed by 90%.

[Emergency]

"Brothers" together with the Turks are preparing to defend Ukraine from Russian "aggression"? Or maybe to hell with all these "relatives"? You look and the Russian people in terms of numbers would be in profit? And then those were saved, those were defended, by that they preserved statehood, by this they generally created their own state. And all at the expense of the Russian Russian soldier, at the expense of the Russian Russian peasant. In gratitude, the descendants of those who swore eternal friendship are now showing figs.

[ancestors from Don]

And name the countries who remember the fact of their salvation by a Russian soldier.

[Legoev Robert]

South Ossetia and Abkhazia)

[Stepan S]

This is especially felt in Abkhazia, gratitude to the Russian people

[Emergency]

That's what we're talking about. There are a certain number of people in such countries who remember this, but at the state level, everyone preferred to forget.

[pytar]

"Brothers" together with the Turks are preparing to defend Ukraine from Russian "aggression"?

Frank nonsense! Bulgarian Defense Minister Stefan Yanev recently stated that he considers it inappropriate to expand NATO's military presence on the eastern flank. He stated this in response to a parliamentary inquiry about the possibility of deploying additional parts of the Alliance on the territory of the Balkan republic.
Bulgaria opposed the deployment of NATO forces on the eastern flank
https://rg.ru/2022/01/10/bolgariia-vystupila-protiv-razmeshcheniia-sil-nato-na-vostochnom-flange.html
There was an article here on VO!

[Ratmir_Ryazan]

Or maybe to hell with all these "relatives"? You look and the Russian people in terms of numbers would be in profit? And then those were saved, those were defended, by that they preserved statehood, by this they generally created their own state.

Unlikely. Let's not be cunning either, Russia did not just free someone there and saved, but defended its interests.

If we had not recaptured Serbia and Bulgaria, Armenia and Georgia from Turkey, it would have been much stronger in all subsequent conflicts with us and could easily take the side of Hitler during the Second World War, which would clearly increase our losses, if not lead to defeat at all.

It is sad, of course, that the Bulgarian people close to us are now serving in the enemy camp, but nothing can be done, we made many mistakes in the 20th century, for which we are paying now.

We have nothing to offer Bulgaria yet, and Europe tempts them with fairy tales about a European future with European salaries and pensions, free movement around Europe in search of a piece of bread, and so on.

Thanks to Russia, to be, thanks to Russia, the gas hub of Europe, to earn billions of dollars on the transit of Russian gas, to have nuclear energy and full cooperation with Russia, Bulgaria does not yet want, while it is more pleasant for them to be slaves in the West, unquestioningly follow all orders of the USA and Brussels.

Let them cook in this, and we need to make ourselves richer and stronger. And do not whine about the fact that we saved them, but they want to go to Europe, and not be friends with us.

[unhappy]

I can remind you that Turkey survived as a large state thanks to the USSR, the plans of the Entente after their victory led to a complete division of the territory. Armenia and Greece have already drawn new borders, and only the help of our country has changed everything. The Turks did not support Hitler for this reason.

[Ratmir_Ryazan]

Assistance to Turkey from the USSR was weapons and money in the 20s, we helped them to make the British presence in Turkey unacceptable, while the victory of Turkey is no longer the merit of the help of the USSR, how much contention within Greece.
But Turkey did not participate in the Second World War against us not because of gratitude, but only because we won at Stalingrad.
If we left Stalingrad, Turkey would instantly enter the war and occupy Armenia, Georgia and Azerbaijan.
During WW2, Turkey actively traded with Germany, and our fleet sometimes sank Turkish ships.

[unhappy]

Not only weapons and money. Armenia received a blow from Azerbaijan, and Soviet Russia stood behind these troops. If the Armenians had one enemy - Turkey, then the story would be different.
The loss of Stalingrad (and in fact it was already under the control of the Germans) would not have been fatal. Against Hitler
the coalition was fighting and Turkey would have to wage war with it, but they could not go to that.

[Ratmir_Ryazan]

If the Armenian separatists, who had torn off a piece of her land from Russia - Armenia, had remained with Turkey one on one, then there would have been no Armenians and no Armenia for 100 years, just as there were no Armenians left in the former territory of Greater Armenia that had seceded to Turkey.

Having captured Stalingrad, Germany would have cut off the Caucasus and all of Transcaucasia from the USSR, and there Turkey would have done what it wanted.

The allies who entered the war on June 6, 1944 were practically defeated in the Ardennes, if not for the offensive of the USSR, they would all come to an end. The allies alone against Germany of the bases of the USSR were weak, and if Germany had not lost the army near Stalingrad and Turkey had entered the war, the whole world would have been different.

[unhappy]

You are out of touch with reality. Stalingrad, with few exceptions, was captured by the Germans. Hitler's whim led to a situation where the exhausted German troops were concentrated in and around the city, on the flanks were motivated and persistent allies, but with weak anti-tank weapons and low mobility. The Soviet army was able to gather fresh reserves on the flanks, including tanks and motorized infantry. Understand, there was no other outcome than encirclement and defeat! No if! This result was obtained due to the mistake of Hitler's General Staff - underestimation of the resources of the Soviet Union and the courage of our soldiers.
After the defeat in the Ardennes, Germany could not continue the large-scale offensive. Reality is not a computer game, you can see how the Germans advanced in 1941, pauses are required to regroup and supply fuel and ammunition, etc., etc. ...

[Ratmir_Ryazan]

Stalingrad was not captured, and parts of Germany and its allies were defeated at Stalinrad, the losses of Germany and the allies are estimated at 1,5 million soldiers, and this is what stopped Turkey from entering the war against the USSR.

And do not blame everything on Hitler, Germany lost this battle not because of his mistake, but because the Red Army fought

After the defeat of the allies in the Ardennes, Germany could not attack, because the USSR launched an offensive against Germany in order to save the allies.

Bloodless Germany was able to defeat and capture the forces of the allies (USA and Britain). Moreover, Germany acted against superior forces.

And try to imagine what would have happened if Germany had not lost as much in the war against the USSR as they had lost?! The world would be doomed.

[unhappy]

And why am I trying to give you my arguments? You ignore them. In addition, you begin to sculpt phrases for me that I did not say.
It is difficult and lazy to think, it is easier to shout something like "Allah Akbar ..." Would the world be doomed? Stalin would not admit defeat in any case and Germany would dissolve its army to the Urals in an attempt to control the territory of the largest country in the world. And try to understand - a coalition waged war with Hitler, including the United States, which is unloved today. At that time, the economic and military power of this state was overwhelming! It is a fact! Let not at 45, but a year or two or three more, but the result of the Second World War would not have changed.

[Ratmir_Ryazan]

Stalin would not admit defeat in any case and Germany would dissolve its army to the Urals in an attempt to control the territory of the largest country in the world.

They didn’t recognize the defeat, but if Stalingrad fell, then it would mean that the defeat of the Soviet group, and Germany would save its army and cut off the Caucasus from the rest of the USSR, depriving our army, aviation and fleet of fuel and reserves in people and food .

In addition, part of Ledn-Lease went through Iran and, accordingly, it would also be gone. The position of Britain would have worsened and there would have been fewer opportunities to send convoys to the USSR, and in the Far East the Japanese would have become more aggressive and it is possible that they would have started a war against the USSR too.

And this would have unleashed the hands of Turkey and it would have occupied Armenia, Georgia and Azerbaijan.

And Germany would not send troops to the Urals, but would deploy them to the center of Russia.

Well, under such conditions, would you win? But to me, victory does not seem obvious if we lose the battle of Stalingrad.

Germany defeated all European armies in a couple of months, although these countries of Europe were economically superior to Germany at times, and the United States would not have left a wet place if the Germans had fought with them.

Only the offensive of the Red Army saved the Allies under the Ardennes from complete defeat, and this despite the fact that Germany had already lost a huge amount of people and resources.

Here are the facts!!!

And you have conjectures and reasoning, but anyway the German army would have dissolved when it reached the Urals, but anyway they would have won, but economically the United States is stronger ...

[unhappy]

Your arguments are no better than religious dogmas. Phrases like from the Bible or the Koran ...

[Alien From]

Looks like they dug the Black Sea together with Khikhels

[garik77]

Have xoxlov learned to mriit or what? There, for one modern submarine with an infrastructure, the entire annual budget of the rogue may not be enough.

[Borisych]

About submarine forces, this is cool. Bulgaria buffet, me 50g. cognac. Do not pour Petrov, he will go to their king to blizzard. He is always like that, just a little - immediately the Bulgarian king and his mother too. Yes. If he finds it, of course. Boshirov proposed the creation of a joint Romanian-Bulgarian submarine force. Well, so that the gypsies are there, guitars - everything is as it should be. The Bulgarians are still thinking. Think, otherwise Petrov will wake up and you will have underwater forces in the bath of the Bulgarian king.

[Ratmir_Ryazan]

How is the situation in Ukraine connected with Bulgaria?!

The same now they will start shouting that soon Putin will attack Bulgaria ?!

[pytar]

How is the situation in Ukraine connected with Bulgaria?!

No way! The invention of the anonymous author of the article!
The purchase of a submarine was envisaged many years ago in the army plan. It is written 10 years ahead and is updated every year.

[Normann]

It is one thing to find funds for the purchase of far from new submarines, but it is quite another to prepare the infrastructure for their maintenance and scheduled repairs, and even if you give it to third countries for repairs, it is not a cheap pleasure. Bought to indulge your ego)

[pytar]

It is one thing to find funds for the purchase of far from new submarines, but it is quite another to prepare the infrastructure for their maintenance and scheduled repairs, and even if you give it to third countries for repairs, it is not a cheap pleasure.

It is strange that here in VO there were so many concerned about spending Bulgarian finances! The majority of the Bulgarians themselves are FOR the rearmament and renewal of the army, and they are ready to give money for this, but here ...

Bought to indulge your ego)

The Bulgarian Navy has rich traditions! The first submarine was purchased in 1916. Thus, Bulgaria becomes the 18th country in the world with submarines. The last submarine "Slava" was decommissioned in 2011. And a few years ago, the plans of the Navy approved by the Parliament, it is planned to acquire new ones.

[garik77]

Oh, the raguli came, they started to minus everyone in a row

[Emergency]

They are here for days. Handed over the outfit - accepted the outfit. Service.

[dnestr74]

Brothers, there are no words

[Sebastian Aristarkhovich Pereira]

You can also buy military airships ... the question is, why ?!

[Nyrobsky]

Quote: Sebastian Aristarkhovich Pereira

You can also buy military airships ... the question is, why?

I believe that it is easier to drape through Shipka on airships in the event of a kipish than on a submarine.
Good evening Sebastian Aristarkhovich

[Sebastian Aristarkhovich Pereira]

Ooooh...what people! glad to meet you again in the open spaces of VO!

[Ilgizl]

Previously, Bulgaria had a developed industry and agriculture, now it is a subsidized region with penny salaries compared to the western Geiropa, the absence of industry and agriculture. The country lives on tourism, selling real estate for housing to foreigners (very cheap apartments) and life in general, well, cheap labor for the West, like the rest of Eastern Europe. In vain, the union poured forces and means into them. We had to develop our inner regions.