There will be no war! Although someone may need options ...

218

The reason for writing this review of cases was, in principle, a sudden dialogue. I went to visit, and there, on Channel 1, another show is in full swing. The faces are unfamiliar, but that doesn't matter. Listened. Hysterics. And at the end, the following informative dialogue took place:

- Do you understand what it's all about?
- Why? (I turn on the blunt on the machine)
- The main thing for us is to get a paper from THEM that THEY do not accept our ultimatum!
- So, what is next?
- And then WAR IS ON THE THRESHOLD!!!!



Wow, peace initiatives are in the minds of the population ...

TV played its part, the remnants of the indignant minds of talk show consumers, where the involved "experts" of various levels compete in who screeches louder, boil. Moreover, what touches most of all, boil and puff mainly those who will definitely not go to war further than the sofa. But the proud "WE" - inspires no worse than "Red Bull".

WE, you know, we'll show them.

The principle is as old as the world: if you want to distract the population from internal problems, invent an external enemy. I believe that all these whirling began from here. Well, what could be better than a suddenly appeared enemy, in the face of which it is imperative to rally around, stop rocking the boat and tighten your belts?

The rise in prices around unequivocally hints that it will be necessary not only to tighten the belts, but also to fill new holes in them.

Moreover, it is not necessary to go especially far for the enemy. He's really close.

A few words about the enemy. That is, about NATO and the US or the US and NATO, it's almost the same thing. In general, the enemy looked at these negotiations ... a little stunned. Like a boxer taking a punch and grabbing a knockdown. Indeed, everything happened quite suddenly, so the Americans were clearly not ready for such turns. They did not expect.

Actually, they are to blame. Relaxed.

In general, there is nothing extraordinary in the situation, perhaps, except for the fact that Putin was suddenly so overwhelmed, and he decided to start all this. On the other hand, what exactly happened? Never mind. One country demanded certain guarantees for itself in certain matters.

The ultimatum, about which they began to squeal in the West? Excuse me, but where is the ultimatum? Let's be consistent. This applies to those who are in the West, and our lovers of big words.

An ultimatum, according to the definition, is a requirement related to the limitation of the time given for its execution, as well as the threat of serious consequences in case of its non-fulfillment. An ultimatum is a demonstration of the unwillingness of any kind of negotiations.

Where is the slightest hint of an ultimatum? On the contrary, the Russian side did not set any time limits. We sit down, talk ... Fortunately, there is something to talk about.

As such, there was nothing in the draft agreement between NATO and Russia that materially affected the interests of either side. Non-acceptance of Ukraine into NATO? Forgive me, but the admission of Ukraine is contrary to the charter of the bloc, and this has been voiced more than once in NATO itself. Territorial disputes and claims take place, all with the same Russia.

Russia invited NATO to comply with the Charter. Well, yes, not very nice, I agree.

Refuse any military activity outside the alliance? More than normal when it comes to the territories of Eastern Europe, the Transcaucasus and Central Asia. Of course, when the conversation touches on the topic of expanding the alliance, this is unlikely to work.

Do not deploy additional weapons and new military contingents outside the alliance member states.

Pretty decent request. And fair. Why excessive activity in the same Georgia, Moldova, Ukraine? These countries are not NATO members, of course, it makes sense to demand not to place strike weapons there, because this threatens the country's security.

By the way, about Georgia and Moldova.

An interesting move: the American side proposed, in turn, proposed to withdraw Russian troops from the territories of Georgia and Moldova.

Good move. It is clear that 99% of the world's population has no idea where it is. Okay, “Georgia” is known in the USA. Still, the "Peach State" is the fourth in the United States. But where Georgia is located, which is spelled the same way, is doubtful.

And even before such details as the PMR and South Ossetia, and at all, save the Congress and the Senate. But if they said that the PMR is a part of Moldova occupied by Russia, and South Ossetia was taken away from Georgia, then it is so.

You can try to prove something like that to someone, but ...

It must be understood that the whole world looks at such aspects differently than they do in Russia. So it is not surprising that the parties simply exchanged mutual claims.

Negotiations, so hastily initiated, could end in nothing but timeouts. A month for reflection, which the Russian side has identified the American side, is about nothing. Initially, it was clear that the Americans would go on the defensive for a start, limiting themselves to counterattacks on the principle of "the fool himself."

But where and most importantly, why all these cries that tomorrow the war, which is at the doorstep?

The patriotic part of the Russian public is in no way inferior in terms of the level of thinking of the American one. "Patriots" "on both sides of the Atlantic really want war.

Of course, war is a very nerve-wracking business. Recent events in Kazakhstan have shown how much people in our country love such pictures, so that later they can yell to the fullest about the topic “Forward ...” and so on. "We'll Show Them" becomes a classic.

Of course, many of our unfortunate patriots would very much like to watch how our valiant troops begin to smash the enemy with little blood on his territory at the suggestion of TV channels that are not the purest in conscience.

After all, tomorrow is on the verge of war ...

It is not entirely clear who will fight with whom. US with Russia? So the United States does not have so many troops in Europe in principle. NATO with Russia? Yes, European armies are a little more useful than empty space, of course, but such a carnival is highly doubtful.

Nuclear Apocalypse? Well, thank God, no one from sane people believes in this. But it is very necessary that the patriots yell on both sides of the ocean.

The other side is not very worried, to be honest, unlike ours.

And we are fine. Enemy at the gate, war tomorrow, ultimatum rejected. "Experts" on TV screens are choking with emotions, bringing another dose of optimism to the minds of patriots. And the patriotically minded part of society listens to those who broadcast.

It's funny if it weren't so sad.

I wonder if now, with such a development of events, NATO will take, and in spite of Russia, will accept Ukraine into its ranks? Let's just say, out of harm. Cross the red line. So, what is next? Is it really necessary to unleash the Third World War?

It is clear that the admission of Ukraine into the ranks of NATO is primarily a problem for NATO and only for NATO.

But is it worth it?

The opinion of both our sofa experts and more sensible people is interesting.
218 comments
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  1. +32
    18 January 2022 11: 06
    Again, this expert, who writes each sentence in a separate paragraph, teaches people how to live.
    1. +1
      18 January 2022 12: 41
      Until it comes even to a discussion in NATO “to accept or not to accept Ukraine”)), the subject of discussion will disappear, or rather, scatter in different directions, like Popandopulo from Odessa))
      Now almost all the puzzles for this have come together) and Pedro Maldivsky has already stated that he does not have a scythe and he will not go to jail) and a representative delegation of American parliamentarians and the German Foreign Minister in Kiev, as it were, hints at the delicacy of the situation) we will see , I hope there will be a final decision in two or three months, even without our shots))
      1. -13
        18 January 2022 13: 14
        1. Let's be realistic, the country is in a severe economic crisis, only the threat of war can lift part of the sanctions.
        2. A small victorious war, it will open the abscess of discontent in Russia, the fall of the ruble and the price hikes for imported food will affect.
        3. All dissatisfied will be caught, the war will be won for a clear advantage.
        4. All who remained - will celebrate the victory unitedly and enthusiastically.

        The plan is simple, still donated by the Minister of Internal Affairs of the Russian Empire Vyacheslav Konstantinovich Plehve to descendants in 1904 when discussing the plan for the country's exit from the then crisis.
        1. -2
          19 January 2022 02: 49
          What country is yours? Israel or the USA, or some other? You have listed all the signs of the USA.
        2. 0
          23 January 2022 17: 59
          Quote: Civil
          1. Let's be realistic, the country is in a severe economic crisis, only the threat of war can lift part of the sanctions.

          And how, comrade expert?
          2. A small victorious war, it will open the abscess of discontent in Russia, the fall of the ruble and the price hikes for imported food will affect.
          And now everyone is happy and euphoric?
          3. All dissatisfied will be caught, the war will be won for a clear advantage.
          And now what prevents to catch the dissatisfied? And, I note, apparently we have no dissatisfied.
          4. All who remained - will celebrate the victory unitedly and enthusiastically.
          Little victorious war
          и
          All who are left
          Doesn't fit like...
          Would you like to show off your erudition?
        3. 0
          31 January 2022 11: 23
          Maybe it’s true in your head, but more or less adequate people understand that the Kremlin does not need a war. They are trying to do business. And he doesn't work for them. And the interpretation of the war was not enough.
    2. +4
      18 January 2022 12: 54
      Quote: shoroh
      Again this expert

      The expert expresses his opinion. This is fine.
      As for the war, no one wants a real war, neither the Americans, nor the gay Europeans, nor, of course, the citizens of Russia.
      But ... enforcement of peace and suppression of encroachments are currently taking place.
      Specifically, the position on Ukraine, perhaps, could be like this.
      To suppress attempts at a military solution, equipping forces in the DLNR with powerful high-precision weapons systems, high-precision weapons and their effective use during encroachments. And to induce peace, the cessation of trade, including gas transit, the closure of borders, except for the movement of individuals. Perhaps a ban on the passage of Ukrainian ships under the Crimean bridge without a long thorough inspection for terrorist attacks.
      Let the West feed its fosterlings and the hulks who have joined them.
      Troops in Poland? Mine the border, including nuclear minefields. One hundred false one real. wink and do not be afraid that he will hit his own. It will not come to this, and the power of tactical means is not great, there are neutron munitions and the explosion can be carried out over the territory of the aggressor, if, of course, he wants to invade. But to have a relatively small country where Russophobes are elected to power on their borders is not very pleasant.
      Etc. like gas for 1000 -1500 dollars? And well, you can do without the Nord Stream.
      Conflicts, of course, are in everyday life, which is not good in politics. "It's not our choice" No. , but if anyone likes to live under a nuclear gunpoint, placing anti-missiles "against Iran" on their territory, burning wood or expensive LNG, etc., then what can be done?
    3. +10
      18 January 2022 15: 06
      Quote: shoroh
      Again this expert who writes each sentence in a separate paragraph teaches people how to live

      So you have a claim to the style of presentation of the article or to the realistic state of affairs that the Author outlined ??
      1. 0
        19 January 2022 10: 22
        Quote: Vlad Baryatinsky
        So you have a claim to the style of presentation of the article or to the realistic state of affairs that the Author outlined ??

        Is it realistic in any way? Do not resist, but for this the prices in the store will become lower? I didn't understand something. Or is NATO with its infrastructure really not approaching Russia officially declaring that we are the enemy and their goal is our deterrence? I didn’t understand something of the author at all, well, except for the message that we are all here (on both sides of the TV) full of ***.
    4. -2
      18 January 2022 15: 13
      But the most important thing is that he does not understand anything in this topic, but writes. Clearly overrated.
    5. -3
      19 January 2022 17: 32
      I even liked Damantsev more)
    6. +4
      19 January 2022 22: 06
      Quote: shoroh
      Again this expert

      However, I must say that I witnessed a period in our history when it suddenly became clear that we had no enemies...
      It was in the early 90s
  2. +10
    18 January 2022 11: 08
    One gets the feeling that the military and political leadership of Russia has some trump cards in store that are not connected with any military actions. But which will put the West in a very uncomfortable position.
    1. +8
      18 January 2022 11: 21
      Quote: Pavel73
      Russia's leadership has in store some trump cards that are not associated with any military action. But which will put the West in a very uncomfortable position.

      Yes, I do not want to economic trump cards???
      What is the basis of this belief in the wisdom of our leadership?
      1. +3
        18 January 2022 11: 32
        On the mistakes made by the West. fatal errors. The main one is that he got in touch with Ukraine. The West simply does not realize WHAT he got involved with and what he got himself into.
        1. -2
          18 January 2022 11: 52
          February 14th?
          1. +3
            18 January 2022 12: 12
            No, on February 17th...
            1. -3
              18 January 2022 12: 19
              Oh, did the American shit already back then?
              It was necessary for them then, a hundred years ago, to roll out a prejudice.
        2. +11
          18 January 2022 11: 55
          Quote: Pavel73
          On the mistakes made by the West.

          The question was
          Quote: Ashes of Klaas
          What is this belief in wisdom based on? our guides?


          Quote: Pavel73
          The West simply does not realize WHAT he got involved with and what he got himself into.

          Fully aware. He has a wealth of experience in manipulating Third World regimes.
        3. 0
          18 January 2022 12: 09
          Did the IR experts say on TV? laughing
        4. 0
          18 January 2022 12: 10
          Quote: Pavel73
          On the mistakes made by the West

          Putin has repeatedly proven his ability to squander opportunities.
        5. +21
          18 January 2022 12: 22
          Quote: Pavel73
          mistakes made by the West. fatal errors. The main one is that he got in touch with Ukraine.

          Do you consider the complete exclusion of a quarter of the Russian-speaking population from Russia as their mistake? This is their great victory! Russians kill Russians - the dream of the democrats, and it came true...
        6. -2
          18 January 2022 20: 42
          Pavel73 (Paul), Today, 11:32, NEW - "... The main one is that he got involved with Ukraine. The West simply does not realize WHAT he got involved with, and what he got himself into..."

          Admire your NAIVETY. crying
          If it's easier, Shere Khan, don't care - Akkely, Tobacco, Banderlog, wolf pack..., Sherkhan, the process is not important - it is important to RECEIVE and KEEP THE RIGHT OF PERSONAL SAFE HUNTING... bully

          And people like Oh, the country from Uncle Sam (his "dad" John Bull - England) to put it civilly(how much was and will be YET) bully - "... We have neither eternal allies nor permanent enemies, but our interests are constant and eternal, and it is our duty to protect them. ... " How, with what, by whom and what to "throw" into the "furnace" IT DOES NOT matter to THEM .. bully
          Money - so, they will draw THEM again .. laughing
          People - if, Americans' lives are no more valuable to them than donut holes No. and the rest....
          VO and VT - Great, business is up, there will be more orders = kickbacks = cuts (see US and Afghanistan). bully
          THEY didn’t get in anywhere, they calculate the options ... how safer and more profitable...
          where to show the "goat"
          where to hang spaghetti,
          donkeys with sacks of "green rubles" under "pairs" (but, of course, a proven method ... see the latest history.)

          R.S. Do not be upset, Colleague, "beating determines consciousness" and "many knowledge, many sorrows" ..etc. Sincerely, ... hi

          R.S. It is clear with them, even if they agree to swear at least on something, hang on paper, video ... For them, this is a variant of the path, find the "Achilles heel" and start the process ....
        7. Aag
          +1
          21 January 2022 10: 50
          Quote: Pavel73
          On the mistakes made by the West. fatal errors. The main one is that he got in touch with Ukraine. The West simply does not realize WHAT he got involved with and what he got himself into.

          For the West, Ukraine is like a suitcase without a handle. Only, unlike the suitcase mentioned in the proverb, saying, it’s not a pity for them to throw this “suitcase” ... And it will fall on us. (((
      2. +11
        18 January 2022 11: 36
        Some simply don't realize that the West has an order of magnitude more such "certain trump cards not connected with any military actions".
        1. 0
          18 January 2022 11: 48
          And who said that it is necessarily the economy?
          1. +4
            18 January 2022 12: 10
            Quote: Pavel73
            And who said that it is necessarily the economy?

            Not weapons, not the economy, not finances .... And then what?
            1. 0
              18 January 2022 12: 39
              Yes, they will again rub about multi-move and how we do them. Only the loop keeps shrinking and shrinking. Already countries such as Sweden and Finland, which after WWII demonstratively occupied neutrality, started talking about joining NATO. Why is that? The intrigues of the United States or their victory, or we are pushing them towards this with our policies.
            2. -7
              18 January 2022 12: 44
              And something that shouldn't be said out loud. For the time being. Not weapons, not economics, and not finances.
              1. 0
                18 January 2022 12: 58
                Quote: Pavel73
                And something that shouldn't be said out loud.

                ah-ah-ah, clearly, clearly. Mystery and profundity. The atmosphere of a circle of conspiracy theories.
            3. -5
              19 January 2022 00: 04
              Quote: Ashes of Klaas
              Not weapons, not the economy, not finances .... And then what?

              Suppose there are documents about the conspiracy of the USSR and the USA about lunar "expeditions". The loss is purely reputational (not military or financial). Although, I think, many will pretend that they did not notice - like a fragment with the number of a famous rocket from the 14th.
      3. -1
        18 January 2022 12: 00
        Yes really economic trump cards???
        And what! They will close factories for the production of Coca-Cola and McDonald's, pharmaceutical plants, Renault-Nissan-VAZ, will again become AvtoVAZ, expel foreigners who sit on the board of directors, such as Russian companies, etc. etc. laughing And most importantly, it turns out that we have already built, according to those developed in RosNANO, super-duper factories that are being driven, ultra-modern microchips, by the way, the development of the same RosNano and they are ten times cheaper than Taiwanese, the Western world will be surprised and defeated.
        1. +8
          18 January 2022 12: 24
          Quote: Daniil Konovalenko
          ... ultra-modern microchips, by the way, the development of the same RosNano and they are ten times cheaper than Taiwanese ones, the Western world will be surprised and defeated.

          You should write fantasy novels, it would be okay ... laughing
          1. +2
            18 January 2022 12: 28
            Yes, where should I, before our government, write novels, we have been reading for 30 years .. Sorry, I forgot to put a smiley, denoting sarcasm .. at the end of the comment ..
            1. +5
              18 January 2022 12: 29
              No emoticons are needed, and so everything is clear to everyone ...
        2. +4
          18 January 2022 12: 37
          Judging by the minuses to the comment, Coca-Cola and McDonald's will not be closed, foreigners will not be expelled, and apparently we do not produce microchips ... laughing
          1. +4
            18 January 2022 13: 26
            Quote: Daniil Konovalenko
            Based on the negatives

            Quote: Daniil Konovalenko
            we do not produce...

            Those who know put pluses. Those who believe - minuses ...
          2. +4
            18 January 2022 14: 46
            laughing You would have already decided who puts the minuses ... they will close it or not if they don’t accept the conditions of the USA with this one, like it with NATO laughing ..minusators, you drive "NATO" and pro-American cars, are you afraid of them? Russia will not buy as a sign of protest? laughing
        3. 0
          19 January 2022 12: 55
          "The Western world will be surprised and defeated."
          how surprised I am...
      4. -1
        18 January 2022 15: 09
        ... mere mortals, this is not supposed to know. This is dictated by the interests of the State request .
    2. +2
      18 January 2022 11: 43
      Roman is right: there will be no war. And what will happen? It will, I suppose swift forcing Ukraine to peace. smile

      An interesting touch: a large number of provocateurs have appeared in / in (as you like) Ukraine, who are throwing tantrums in public places that Russia is going to seize "our land" and that you need to "rebuff them all." Sometimes someone objects, but usually everyone is silent. Because if an argument breaks out, the provocateurs immediately call the police, who quickly appear, who arrest the opponents of the provocateurs. negative
      1. +1
        18 January 2022 12: 15
        There are other prepositions in Russian. For example "with"! wink
      2. 0
        18 January 2022 14: 02
        hi Tomorrow Blinkin arrives in Kiev, with unclear goals. Based on the American template (remember Scandalise Rice and 08 08 08), we will have to force a stop to hostilities against the DPR and LPR. there are a few days to prepare a justification for the operation for coercion.
      3. +2
        18 January 2022 16: 22
        Good news for you. At the joint press conference Burbock Lavrov. Minsk agreements. Burbock blah blah blah. Lavrov is tired of your blah blah blah. Let's start with the federalization of Ukraine. Then we'll talk.
    3. +4
      18 January 2022 12: 19
      Roman, for a moment, the same NATO has a FLEET, which is real, and in terms of their combined abilities, jokingly, our fleets will melt. And if the non-country was somewhere near Portugal, then it’s one thing, but this gangster non-state borders on us, and it always spoils us! There will be a war because the United States needs it! Only for the war to go on on our continent.
    4. 0
      18 January 2022 12: 25
      Of course, there are trump cards in the sleeves, otherwise the fuss would not have started. We are all well aware that we will not take out the US + NATO. There is only hope for a blitzkrieg, but it is impossible in the format of large countries (Adolf Aloizych proved this), which means a protracted confrontation, a war of economies. But we are all well aware of the strength of our economy (the government is also aware), which means there is a trump card that cannot be beaten - the joker. If it wasn't there, there's no point in starting all this fuss.
    5. -2
      18 January 2022 14: 17
      Quote: Pavel73
      the military and political leadership of Russia has in store some trump cards that are not related to any military action. But which will put the West in a very uncomfortable position.

      I also have this theory. Some kind of secret, revealing which Russia can show all mankind the true face of omeriga ... And humanity will shudder from disgust and disgust ... But what it is, or who we will not know until the time comes.
      1. 0
        19 January 2022 07: 35
        Did everyone shudder when the Ukrainians shot down the Boeing? And how everyone trembled from the actions of the United States in Vietnam. They say we didn't do that, that's all.
        1. -3
          19 January 2022 09: 22
          Quote: Lykases1
          Did everyone shudder when the Ukrainians shot down the Boeing? And how everyone trembled from the actions of the United States in Vietnam. They say we didn't do that, that's all.

          I do not approve. These are just my speculations .. There is some kind of American dirt in relation to humanity ... What is it? Think for yourself.
          1. 0
            19 January 2022 09: 28
            I agree, but recently the saying "What is supposed to Jupiter is not supposed to be a bull" has been in effect.
    6. +2
      18 January 2022 23: 18
      Quote: Pavel73
      One gets the feeling that the military and political leadership of Russia has some trump cards in store that are not connected with any military actions. But which will put the West in a very uncomfortable position.

      And you don't have one. Apparently, the "experts" on the federal TV channels, too! laughing
    7. Aag
      0
      21 January 2022 10: 57
      Quote: Pavel73
      One gets the feeling that the military and political leadership of Russia has some trump cards in store that are not connected with any military actions. But which will put the West in a very uncomfortable position.

      Well, of course, I want to believe ... in everything good, in trump cards in the distribution, in a freebie, a miracle, in the superhero Avos (in KVN this topic was beaten well))) ...
      But systematically, (without "jerks" and tears), progressively ... cetto has not been released for a long time. ((
  3. +10
    18 January 2022 11: 16
    "Experts" on TV screens are choking with emotions, bringing another dose of optimism to the minds of patriots.

    All these experts, officials-deputies would be given a shovel, but to clear the snow.
    Do not pass through the yards or along the roads.
    One blah blah blah. For every taste, for every height and color.
    And the roads and sidewalks are not cleaned.
    1. +1
      18 January 2022 11: 35
      officials-deputies would be given a shovel
      Over in St. Petersburg, the governor gave out a shovel - and what? Not a city, but some kind of Fort Boyar .. Apparently, bureaucrats decided that they had a shovel for dough ..
      1. +6
        18 January 2022 12: 27
        Our mayor also ordered that administration workers come out to clean the snow. There is an order, there is snow, there are no workers ...
    2. -2
      18 January 2022 11: 46
      It is not entirely clear who will fight with whom. US with Russia?

      The leadership is not afraid of a war with NATO, but a strike by missiles that will be deployed in Ukraine if they join the alliance, the flight time of which will be 7-10 minutes to Moscow.

      The West has no reason for a serious confrontation, since 60-100 billion dollars are withdrawn from the Russian Federation every year. The current regime is the most pro-Western in the history of Russia.
      1. -5
        18 January 2022 14: 36
        Why would NATO bomb Moscow, its breadwinner? Decisions are made there leading to the withdrawal of money from the Russian Federation. Is it really so hard to understand that if money is loaned to build a factory that will raise cows or produce bricks, then these are jobs, fresh milk, buildings in which people will work or live - these are jobs, healthy food, wages, taxes to the treasury, i.e. development of the Russian economy. If it is dollars, then it is the maintenance of US military bases around the world, biological laboratories around the borders, color revolutions in order to strengthen the current state of affairs, preparing the opposition for a coup, causing other harm. And the numbers on the account do not decrease, the owner of a certain citizen of the Russian Federation is satisfied. Money lies only in a glass jar; in a bank institution, they always work for the country or against the country.
    3. -4
      18 January 2022 12: 12
      Quote: prior
      And the roads and sidewalks are not cleaned.

      reminded:
      What have we come to, - Polesov said ironically, - yesterday he ran around the whole city, he could not get three-eighths of an inch dice. There is not. Not! And the tram is going to start up! ..
      (C)
      1. +1
        18 January 2022 12: 32
        reminded:
        Or so:
        - yesterday the whole city ran around, could not get Chinese microchips. There is not. Not! And the Zircons, with the Vanguards, are going to let them in! .. laughing
        1. +1
          18 January 2022 13: 55
          Quote: Daniil Konovalenko
          Or so:
          - yesterday the whole city ran around, could not get Chinese microchips. There is not. Not! And the Zircons, with the Vanguards, are going to let them in! ..

          Well, then so:
          1. +2
            18 January 2022 14: 01
            Well, then so: laughing good
            1. Aag
              +1
              21 January 2022 11: 16
              Quote: Daniil Konovalenko
              Well, then so: laughing good

              ...Then (during the filming of the film) the State fought with speculators. Now, - perhaps it has won, according to the principle "If the mess cannot be stopped, it must be led!" ....
    4. Aag
      0
      21 January 2022 11: 10
      "... All these experts, officials-deputies should be given a shovel, but to clear the snow ..."
      For salaries like theirs, most Russians are ready to throw snow in 12/7 mode ...
  4. 0
    18 January 2022 11: 17
    Everything is exactly as Roman stated. But the effects of this bedlam are more interesting, and I see them like this:
    1. The Finns are thinking about joining NATO.
    2. All Scandinavia has accelerated the process of its rearmament.
    3. There was a huge outcry in Eastern Europe and Poland and the Baltic states received a new argument in favor of Putin's Russophobia and aggressiveness.
    4. The rearmament of Eastern Europe has accelerated.
    5. Everyone started pumping weapons into Ukraine. The Americans increased military aid by $300 million. Ukraine has returned to the center of attention of the Western world.
    6. There were many ideas in Congress about new and very heavy sanctions, and with them Russia took a step towards North Korea.

    Against the background of this, it seems to me strange this offensive of the Russian authorities, and its result is rather controversial.
    1. +6
      18 January 2022 11: 43
      Finns and Swedes were dragged into NATO anyway, and it’s not the first year that their government has been preparing its population for more than a year.
      the cry in eastern Europe and the Baltic extinctions never ceased.
      the states are pumping 404 weapons just to drive them to the slaughter.
      the states realized that Brzezinski's idea that Russia would be beaten at the expense of Russia itself did not work out and that now the ruins would have to be sponsored by them themselves, so they want not just to throw a suitcase without a handle, but to throw it so that it would thunder all over the planet - and the reason - 404 has no money for gas.
      and whether there will be a war or not depends on whether the ruin can survive this winter without additional gas. because they pressured the damned occupiers to give their gas on the cheap, but they don't want to. therefore, there will be an attack on the LDNR and Russia was not going to fight with 404, but it would have to.
      and therefore, seeing this, ours voiced their plans that there are already 10 thousand NATO members near the Donbass, and that the non-combatants are going to go to war. and so that it would be repulsive for mattresses to climb openly, ours expressed all their claims to them, from which the eyes of the mattresses climbed on their foreheads from the fact that the "northern barbarians" dared to snap.
    2. +7
      18 January 2022 11: 48
      Finns have been thinking about joining NATO before.
      Eastern Europe is completely Russophobic, they do not need any arguments to blame Russia, in any case, she is to blame for them.
      Rearmament smile do not tell dwarf armies.
      To North Korea, Russia is like to the moon.
      You there in Bulgaria look at the interests of Russia from the point of view of NATO, not Russia, and naturally you cannot understand our concern with the advancement of this military structure to the borders of our country.
      1. -8
        18 January 2022 12: 26
        Quote: Lech from Android.
        To North Korea, Russia is like to the moon.

        This is in what sense? What heights, unattainable for us, have the Korean comrades climbed?
        Quote: Lech from Android.
        You there in Bulgaria look at the interests of Russia from the point of view of NATO, not Russia, and naturally you cannot understand our concern with the advancement of this military structure to the borders of our country.

        It is yes, I agree. "Concern" is generally our forte. Such a diplomatic fetish, I would say.
        1. +5
          18 January 2022 13: 57
          How to what? In North Korea, the people and the party, led by the great Eun, are united ... smile By definition, there are no dissenters ... all the buzzers fled to South Korea.
          In our country, the people and the party live in different worlds, I will modestly keep silent about the leader.
          Well, the buzzers ... half of the VO forum can be safely sent to correctional and re-education camps like the Chinese ones for seditious thoughts and words, but as we can see, we can still freely express our opinion.
          1. +2
            18 January 2022 14: 45
            Quote: Lech from Android.
            Well, buzzers ... half of the VO forum can be safely sent to correction and re-education camps

            ah, "the highest form of democracy is dictatorship")) Interestingly, Orwell has been translated into Korean?
            Quote: Lech from Android.
            but as we can see, we can still freely express our opinion.

            Yes how to say. There is no moderation. And vigilant comrades are tapping.
            1. Aag
              0
              21 January 2022 11: 28
              "... And vigilant comrades are tapping..."
              Looks like there aren't enough listeners for this knock...
              Yes, and "hearers", some ... vague (or interested not in the security of the State, but in the commercial interests of individuals ...: how long have you been playing with Navalny? "Echo", "Rain" ... And some the characters fade away...
          2. +6
            18 January 2022 14: 52
            half of the VO forum can be safely sent to correction and re-education camps like the Chinese ones for seditious thoughts and words, but as we can see, we can still freely express our opinion.
            ..Then I look, the ranks of the members of the forum have thinned out, many cannot be seen ... laughing Cleaned up the site...
            1. +2
              18 January 2022 15: 38
              Quote: Daniil Konovalenko
              Cleaned up the site...

              We must demonstrate our loyalty to the RKN)
              1. +4
                18 January 2022 15: 40
                We must demonstrate our loyalty to the RKN)
                laughing
    3. +11
      18 January 2022 11: 48
      Naturally accelerated. Time is running out. So it went sluggishly, but it went on. In the political leadership of all the countries voiced, people advocating for joining NATO advanced, ukrov were pumped up with weapons before that. But the author is lying. The fact that Russia has indicated that it is waiting for an answer and is not going to drag out the discussion, drag out time and turn it into an empty one, is already an ultimatum.
    4. +8
      18 January 2022 11: 53
      Well, what can we do the opposite? Kiss everyone? Whatever Russia does, Everyone always unites against Russia .. don't you know that? Give me a time when everyone around loved Russia? There was no such thing. Everyone has always rushed to the supposedly strong, well, just like you always do it .. it will always be so long as Russia exists, no matter what it does .. hence the conclusion: we need to do what we need, but they always have enemies and do not change. Bulgarian opinion... always smiling...
    5. -7
      18 January 2022 12: 06
      This is a victory for Russian diplomacy...
    6. -2
      18 January 2022 12: 15
      You know, this is all the noise, negotiations, etc. this is all for the quick elimination of the LDNR
      1. Aag
        0
        21 January 2022 11: 32
        Quote: Daniil Konovalenko
        You know, this is all the noise, negotiations, etc. this is all for the quick elimination of the LDNR

        Would you explain - for what purpose, what is the benefit?
    7. -2
      18 January 2022 18: 12
      1. Finns...2. All Scandinavia..3. ... Eastern Europe and Poland and the Baltic States ... 4. The rearmament of the East has accelerated. Europe. 5. Everyone started pumping weapons into Ukraine...6. ...and with them, Russia took a step towards North Korea.

      How many minuses, but everything is clearly and precisely said! hi Or maybe it was volume 6 that was one of the main goals?

      Against the background of this, it seems to me strange this offensive of the Russian authorities, and its result is rather controversial.

      More than controversial! I have not seen NATO countries so cohesive in their loneliness for a long time! Atrophied used NATO alliance got a new breath! belay
      1. +2
        18 January 2022 19: 08
        Quote: pytar
        For a long time I have not seen NATO countries so cobbled together in their loneliness! Atrophied used NATO alliance got a new breath
        I'm embarrassed to ask - when did Nata demonstrate unanimity? Name able? I'll give you a hint - when the Americans substituted the idea of ​​​​the Euro army: you, on command from behind a puddle, made a decision in a day and rushed to hammer Yugoslavia: changing EUFOR to SFOR. What about recent history? The attack on Libya - you were simply presented with a fact: we are already bombing Libya and we are all at war.
        In a word - the penguin is a proud bird, until they kick it, it will not fly. You are those penguins ... equality and unanimity, it's funny to listen
        1. -4
          18 January 2022 20: 11
          I'm embarrassed to ask - when did Nata demonstrate unanimity?

          It happens. For example, in 2014
          I'll tell you - when the Americans ...

          I don't need your tips. You see situations in one image, I in another.
          ... you, on command from behind a puddle, made a decision in a day and rushed to peck Yugoslavia

          NATO intervened and ended the conflict after several years of intra-Yugoslav massacre. More than 200 people have died there before. people, most of them Bosniaks. By the way, the ODBC in Kazakhstan carried out an operation similar in meaning. The Russian Federation performs / performed such missions in Transnistria, Sev. Ossetia, Karabakh as well as in other regions of the world. As for the SFRY, it lost its ideological bonds after Tito's death. In place of Yugoslav nationalism and the social system, ethnic nationalism and the capitalist system came. All this logically and inevitably led to the collapse of the Federation. The Balkan mentality also affected, but the Czech Republic and Slovakia were divided peacefully and now friendly fraternal countries.
          The attack on Libya - you were simply presented with a fact: we are already bombing Libya and we are all at war.

          The operation in Libya was carried out by several countries. Nobody forced anyone to participate.
          I must say that Gaddafi himself did a lot of things, the result is also natural. By the way, I wonder why you don’t remember the operation in Iraq, where Hafez Assad’s Syria also participated as an ally of the Western anti-Sadamov coalition!
          In a word - the penguin is a proud bird, until they kick it - it will not fly.

          Ornithologist-political scientist?! laughing
          ... equality and unanimity, it's funny to listen

          You already decide on the logic! If equality, there will be disagreements, and if there is "ice" unanimity, then there is no equality, like "Uncle Sem made everyone". laughing
          In real life, there can be both disagreements and unanimity, depending on the interests and the essence of the issue, and this is normal.
          1. 0
            18 January 2022 23: 28
            If you think that was sarcastic, you are wrong. They put you in a stall - where you climbed yourself. To get started, read how you were all pulled to Libya and how Nata ended up in Yugoslavia: after Europe, including you, did its job and demonstrated its inability lol
            I already asked you - do you even know what Zaventen is famous for?
            1. -4
              18 January 2022 23: 50
              Your writings are not interesting to me. Grandfather from Bitol, relatives there. Serbia got what they deserved. And to Gaddafi, my fellow populists have personal scores. So you've got the addresses mixed up. Choose another reader. negative
              1. -1
                19 January 2022 02: 34
                and why did Serbia get it?
                I will explain for Judas - the international court pronounced a verdict - Milosevic is NOT GUILTY.
                1. +3
                  19 January 2022 08: 28
                  Quote: just explo
                  the international court pronounced a verdict - Milosevic is NOT GUILTY.

                  There was no acquittal. This farce against Milosevic ended with his death.
                2. +2
                  19 January 2022 10: 15
                  and why did Serbia get it?

                  Many underestimate the role of Milosevic and Serbian nationalism as a catalyst for the nationalisms of others b. south republics! Serbia initiated the solution of problems by force! It was Serbia that went to forcefully change the republican borders! 10-day war in Slovenia, then the Bosnian-Serbian and Croatian-Serbian war began Serbia! All hostilities were conducted on the territories of Slovenia, BiH and Croatia! The case with BiH is especially indicative! Initially, opinions prevailed in this republic to remain in the new reformed Yugoslavia, but rude pressure, ultimatums of Serbian politicians led to radicalization. The situation is similar with Kosovo, Kosovars and Serbs were traditionally hated, but it was Milosevic's policy that led to an aggravation and military confrontation. While Tito was alive, he somehow restrained centrifugal tendencies, although they were with him. These are facts and should not be ignored! hi
              2. +4
                19 January 2022 15: 18
                Quote: pytar
                to Gaddafi, my fellow populists have personal scores.
                The story of the death of your medical workers does not paint Gaddafi, I sympathize. I hope you also sympathize with the Serbs: Europe attacked them, then Nata? Ah, I understand your attitude -
                Quote: pytar
                Serbia got what they deserved.
                When you are “set up” by your overlord, you will remember how happy you were when they tore Serbia.
                Quote: pytar
                Your essays are not interesting to me ...

                To tell the truth, I'm not interested in your opinion either - what can a bald person say about a hairbrush? It's a pity there is no emoji here that I would really like to insert lol
                1. -3
                  19 January 2022 21: 48
                  I hope you also sympathize with the Serbs ... Ah, I understand your attitude - Serbia got what it deserved.

                  Initially, almost all of us sympathized with the Serbs, and even the Serbian ambassador in Sofia publicly thanked for this. Shortly after the end of the war, I had the opportunity to go through the countries of B.Yu. What I myself saw in the roots changed my views on the situation. But I am not blaming the Serbs, but that criminal Milosevic clique that brought the country to a national catastrophe. It was impossible to solve problems with force, in the Balkans this causes even more problems. And more and more Serbians now share this opinion. I wish them peace and prosperity! With all our historical contradictions, this is the people closest to us ethnically and by faith.
                  When you are “set up” by your overlord, you will remember how happy you were when they tore Serbia.

                  Of course, no allies can be counted on 100% or even 50%. Our national interests must be above all. It's like that for everyone.
                  To tell the truth, I'm not interested in your opinion either - what can a bald man say about a hairbrush?

                  You, out of ignorance, are trying to tell the hairdresser about the bald head and combs ... laughing We end our conversation on the basis of mutual disinterest. Yes
                  1. +4
                    19 January 2022 22: 58
                    Quote: pytar
                    You out of ignorance ...
                    My “ignorance” was polished in Zaventen, there HQ, in Mons, in …. I hope you are a better hairdresser... stop
          2. Aag
            0
            21 January 2022 11: 54
            Quote: pytar
            I'm embarrassed to ask - when did Nata demonstrate unanimity?

            It happens. For example, in 2014
            I'll tell you - when the Americans ...

            I don't need your tips. You see situations in one image, I in another.
            ... you, on command from behind a puddle, made a decision in a day and rushed to peck Yugoslavia

            NATO intervened and ended the conflict after several years of intra-Yugoslav massacre. More than 200 people have died there before. people, most of them Bosniaks. By the way, the ODBC in Kazakhstan carried out an operation similar in meaning. The Russian Federation performs / performed such missions in Transnistria, Sev. Ossetia, Karabakh as well as in other regions of the world. As for the SFRY, it lost its ideological bonds after Tito's death. In place of Yugoslav nationalism and the social system, ethnic nationalism and the capitalist system came. All this logically and inevitably led to the collapse of the Federation. The Balkan mentality also affected, but the Czech Republic and Slovakia were divided peacefully and now friendly fraternal countries.
            The attack on Libya - you were simply presented with a fact: we are already bombing Libya and we are all at war.

            The operation in Libya was carried out by several countries. Nobody forced anyone to participate.
            I must say that Gaddafi himself did a lot of things, the result is also natural. By the way, I wonder why you don’t remember the operation in Iraq, where Hafez Assad’s Syria also participated as an ally of the Western anti-Sadamov coalition!
            In a word - the penguin is a proud bird, until they kick it - it will not fly.

            Ornithologist-political scientist?! laughing
            ... equality and unanimity, it's funny to listen

            You already decide on the logic! If equality, there will be disagreements, and if there is "ice" unanimity, then there is no equality, like "Uncle Sem made everyone". laughing
            In real life, there can be both disagreements and unanimity, depending on the interests and the essence of the issue, and this is normal.

            I welcome you colleague! (on the forum).
            It was always interesting to read your comments (I was in solidarity with many) ...
            Therefore, this comment somehow does not fit ... I don’t think that you have been brainwashed so much ...
            ... And ... There was a suspicion, and now there is confidence that you know the Russian language much better than you are trying to imagine! (Is it a mishandled Cossack?):
            "... In a word - the penguin is a proud bird, until it is kicked - it will not fly.
            Ornithologist-political scientist?! laughing..."
            I have three tips for you: 1) you are a linguist with knowledge of Russian; 2) you played KVN (bad, - over the years - it doesn’t quite beat), well, and the third - frank recognition will ease your lot)))) (Yes In recognition, do not forget to indicate which side you are on!... hi (light banter...).
            But the "ornithologist-political scientist" is strong, of course, but it is "flying", "fiasco", "fawn", "failure" ... Put flowers on the windowsill. Like Pr-Pleischner on Blummenstrasse (Film "17 Moments of Spring").))) bully
            1. -1
              21 January 2022 13: 34
              I welcome you colleague! (on the forum).

              Greetings to Alexander! hi
              It was always interesting to read your comments (I was in solidarity with many) ...

              Thanks, I didn't know others were reading my comments! I thought that only those with whom we are arguing!
              Therefore, this comment somehow does not fit ... I don’t think that you have been brainwashed so much ...

              I love to read/watch Russian media! And I can say for sure that they have topics that are greatly distorted / ideologized for a number of reasons! The theme of the Yugoslav events is one of them! In Russia, only the Serbian version is replicated, I have not found a single case when the opinion of Bosnians, Croats, Slovenes, Kosovars appeared in the Russian media as a counterbalance! This should alert an attentive forum member! You can disagree with me, this is your right, but I would advise you to listen to the opinions of those who are closer to the place of events! Unfortunately, we are often and purposefully banned here, so most of my fellow members have left this site. I'm on my way too... bully
              ..And ... There was a suspicion, and now there is confidence that you know the Russian language much better than you are trying to imagine! (Is it a mishandled Cossack?): ...
              I have three tips for you: 1) you are a linguist with knowledge of Russian; 2) you played KVN (bad, - over the years - it doesn’t quite beat), well, and the third - sincere recognition will ease your lot))))

              They made fun! laughing By the way, you are not the first person to write this to me! But none of your guesses worked! The answer is much simpler - I am Bulgarian, and my wife is Russian! Half of the relatives are Siberians. bully What kind of mood and attention I get such spelling. Sometimes my wife corrects me, and sometimes I myself, because I have been using Russian since elementary school, with us it was mandatory for learning.
              Yes! In confession, don't forget to indicate which side you are on!... hi (light banter...).

              This joke question is actually important! He demonstrates the way of thinking of a significant part of the members of the forum! On whose side - on our / Russian / or on someone else's? And I try to move away from such a perception to "ours-yours"! For more versatility! There is a fundamental perception of truth and truth!

              It admits that EVERYONE can be right from their point of view, but no one has a monopoly over the TRUTH! I'm trying to understand the TRUTH, no matter whose truth I like best. hi
  5. +9
    18 January 2022 11: 19
    Where is the slightest hint of an ultimatum? On the contrary, the Russian side did not set any time limits. We sit down, talk ... Fortunately, there is something to talk about.

    Quotes: It is you who must give us guarantees and immediately. This is not a menu to choose from. We need a written response from the US. Etc..
    We do not sit down and talk, but we agree or not.

    Where are such "experts" produced?
    1. -2
      18 January 2022 12: 06
      Lavrov gave exactly one week to respond.
  6. +10
    18 January 2022 11: 21
    funny, they constantly demanded that Russia be active, and as soon as Russia started the songs about "Putin, it went overboard" ...
    1. +6
      18 January 2022 11: 36
      Quote: Barberry25
      funny, they constantly demanded that Russia be active, and as soon as Russia started the songs about "Putin, it went overboard" ...

      Well, at least someone wrote about it. All the time they laughed at the red lines. Above endless worries. They said that the proteges of the West were all around. That all the property is abroad and the children too. Therefore, nothing will ever happen.
      And as soon as they got what they wanted, they immediately put it in their pants. For it's one thing to whine about poverty while keeping your ass warm. The other is when it gets cold. Every year they reach a limit after which it is no longer possible to endure. And then suddenly here loomed the prospect of really being patient. Need to understand
      1. -1
        18 January 2022 11: 57
        what did you get? so far we haven’t received anything good .. let’s look at the facts .. the statement is just words if they don’t lead to any positive result .. and if it’s better to remain silent at all .. what is the positive result today, what makes you such conclusions make?
        1. -2
          18 January 2022 12: 12
          what did you get? nothing good so far..

          Nothing tangible yet. But these are no longer mere concerns.
          let's look at the facts.

          And I urge you to look at the facts and not run ahead of the locomotive. Has the US already given a written response?
          a statement is just words, if they do not lead to any positive result ..

          There have been statements before. It threatens us, it worries us, etc. Now there are quite specific demands. Is not it?
          and if negative, it would be better to remain silent in general ..

          Something about those who jump into the square, it doesn't work. There is a struggle for a brighter future. You also need to understand.
          what is the positive result for today, what makes you draw such conclusions?

          Where did I write about positive results? Where? And what conclusions did I draw? He only stated the facts. The results can be very different. I'm not guessing on coffee grounds, I'm just using well-known information and that's it.
          1. 0
            18 January 2022 14: 00
            well then, by and large, we are about the same thing .. let's look at the facts - where does it all lead .. and I hope to only one option for which it was worth it - to a positive outcome .. although if we talk about that they actually sent us, refusing to demand, where a positive result will come from, I don’t understand .. but let's look at the facts without our speculations .. 3 options. positive - improvement of something for the Russian Federation, negative - deterioration of something for the Russian Federation and none - continuation of the talking shop for an indefinite period with its fading .. let's see .. and I suggest watching - until mid-February at most - otherwise we can conclude about the talking shop, i.e. To. in 2 months - you can come to a result in any way - with the formulation of questions that are done ...
            1. -3
              18 January 2022 14: 27
              Let's look at the facts - what will it all lead to ..

              It can lead to anything. I don't have enough information to draw firm conclusions.
              and I hope to only one option, for which it was worth it - to a positive outcome ..

              Everyone hopes so.
              although if we talk about the fact that they actually sent us, refusing to demand, where a positive result will come from, I don’t understand ..

              Who specifically sent? Russia presented its demands to the United States. Then for some reason she made it all public. They agreed to negotiate. We are now waiting for a written response.
              And the on-duty phrases from the talking heads are not particularly interesting.
              and none - the continuation of the talking shop for an indefinite period with its fading ..

              This option is excluded by our representatives. (I only broadcast what is. I do not use my opinion)

              It seems to me personally that such demands were put forward only in order to receive an official refusal. And this should finally untie the hands of Russia. They cannot accept this, it is a huge reputational loss both within the country and abroad. Afghanistan was just worth something.
              Putin in foreign policy has always been extremely restrained, cautious, etc.. Even too much. What is in Georgia, what is in Ukraine, what is in Syria, etc.. . And here it is.
              China supported Russia's demands. And they, according to the statements of the heads of these states, constantly check their watches in the main directions.
              Lavrov said that we had been harnessing for a long time, and now it was time to go. And they are only waiting for what the driver on the other wagon will answer.

              I don't want to take any position. I myself am in shock. But big changes await us. It seems to me.
              I always thought it was inevitable. But I didn't think it would happen so soon.
        2. +3
          18 January 2022 12: 49
          in order to understand what you got, you need to have access to information, but it’s corny not, in fact it can be said that it was shown that NATO would not fight for Ukraine.
        3. Aag
          +1
          21 January 2022 12: 10
          Quote: 2 level advisor
          what did you get? so far we haven’t received anything good .. let’s look at the facts .. the statement is just words if they don’t lead to any positive result .. and if it’s better to remain silent at all .. what is the positive result today, what makes you such conclusions make?

          Greetings, colleague!
          For a long time I began to notice (not me alone) that "VO" has turned from a platform of knowledgeable (in various fields), thinking (often in different ways, but - mutually respecting comrades leading a dialogue), into a bunch of hysterics.
          Unfortunately, even some respected old-timers of the site succumbed to the thesis "to live with wolves - howl like a wolf." It's embarrassing, to say the least... hi
          1. +1
            21 January 2022 13: 11
            Hello Alexander.. hi yes, colleague. topic (especially about "enemies") and there is one "cheers" (often without any reason at all) and "Petrosyan" jokes (moreover, after one repeating one) .. I don’t go to the site for the same .. but at the same time I thought about what to leave with I don’t want a site .. there are still enough smart people with interesting thoughts .. with different experiences .. views .. one thing is good - these incomprehensible personalities usually don’t stay for a long time .. it looks like you need to try not to notice ..
            1. Aag
              +1
              21 January 2022 13: 40
              Quote: 2 level advisor
              Hello Alexander.. hi yes, colleague. topic (especially about "enemies") and there is one "cheers" (often without any reason at all) and "Petrosyan" jokes (moreover, after one repeating one) .. I don’t go to the site for the same .. but at the same time I thought about what to leave with I don’t want a site .. there are still enough smart people with interesting thoughts .. with different experiences .. views .. one thing is good - these incomprehensible personalities usually don’t stay for a long time .. it looks like you need to try not to notice ..

              ... They proved what they did not have time to. hi
              There is still a thought - it is worth here, on the "VO", to remain, as in the last trench ... There is nowhere to retreat anyway !!! Well, at least it's not about us...
              Based on the current situation, I set the task:
              1) To extinguish the ardor of the patriots with arguments;
              2) To support the sane - by all available means;
              3) To convince those who doubt with historical examples, to win them over to their side;
              4) Enemies - at an expense! (If you do not want to work for the good of the bright Socialist (debate is possible ...) the future of a great, just Country!
              hi
      2. +2
        18 January 2022 11: 59
        it's called compensation when they try to find an excuse .. that's why Putin is bad and nothing is supplied to the army, but how it is supplied is "not right anymore!" ..
    2. +3
      18 January 2022 12: 12
      Can't you see the difference between decisive behavior and empty verbal threats?
  7. -3
    18 January 2022 11: 25
    No NATA will fight for Ukraine. There will be a division of this administrative-territorial misunderstanding into the south-eastern part (DPR, LPR, MARIUPOL, DNEPROPETROVSK, KHARKOV AND ODESSA) - something like Abkhazia, Lemberg - Poland, Uzhgorod-Hungary. Well, leave the Kuiv with the lower reaches of the Dnieper Poroshenko, Kolomoisky, Yarosh and Tymoshenko with Avakov. So that the spiders in the jar end in an evolutionary way.
    1. -6
      18 January 2022 11: 47
      Kuev will also be given to the Russians
      if I'm not mistaken, this interview was in the middle of the 404s, when no one could even think about the war on XNUMX
      I watched the full interview before the second Maidan (the first was with a Yushchenko in 2004)
      1. Aag
        0
        21 January 2022 12: 24
        Quote: just EXPL
        Kuev will also be given to the Russians
        if I'm not mistaken, this interview was in the middle of the 404s, when no one could even think about the war on XNUMX
        I watched the full interview before the second Maidan (the first was with a Yushchenko in 2004)

        Sorry ... Your comments, due to the lack of a mass of punctuation marks, can be interpreted diametrically opposite. (Or, is this a style - there is power - guess about the vector yourself?).
        ... For now I will refrain from evaluating - because it is not clear ...
        In the future, I'll just downvote. For disrespect for forum users, the Russian language ... hi
    2. -6
      18 January 2022 12: 08
      And where will you hold an interplanetary chess tournament?
    3. Aag
      0
      21 January 2022 12: 19
      Quote: Amateur
      No NATA will fight for Ukraine. There will be a division of this administrative-territorial misunderstanding into the south-eastern part (DPR, LPR, MARIUPOL, DNEPROPETROVSK, KHARKOV AND ODESSA) - something like Abkhazia, Lemberg - Poland, Uzhgorod-Hungary. Well, leave the Kuiv with the lower reaches of the Dnieper Poroshenko, Kolomoisky, Yarosh and Tymoshenko with Avakov. So that the spiders in the jar end in an evolutionary way.

      Even if so (IMHO: I see no reason). - Do we (the Russian Federation) need it? (Except, in the end, the hopes of the LNR, DNR)?
      Agree, we (the Russian Federation) have become smarter, smarter ... But, first of all, to our potential allies! How do you get new ones?
      About tightening belts, it's not worth it. Not those pussies are chosen for a puff!
  8. -7
    18 January 2022 11: 26
    The principle is as old as the world: if you want to distract the population from internal problems, invent an external enemy. I believe that all these whirling began from here.

    Yeah, Putin was sitting like that for 20 years, pursuing a rather balanced and cautious policy. And then, having defeated our "non-systemic opposition", I decided to challenge in order to distract the next Buffoon. And not just blah blah, but going to a direct confrontation. Which may lead to further deterioration of internal problems, and a rapid one at that.

    An ingenious plan, reliable as a Swiss watch. And these people scold the TV...
    1. +3
      18 January 2022 11: 49
      They need to scold something, otherwise they will stop reading, the rating will fall accordingly, and with it the advertising revenue! And you want to eat. And Putin is an ideal candidate for swearing, he doesn’t swear at anything, he also swears because not as some would like. And for swearing, no one will beat your hands. And scolding is not the most bags to carry.
      In general, everything is as always in Russia, the dog barks the wind wears.
      1. 0
        18 January 2022 12: 00
        Rogozin can also be scolded)
        1. -3
          18 January 2022 12: 34
          Quote: Barberry25
          Rogozin can also be scolded)

          This is even easier because of the "breadth of nature" of the scolded - only this parameter irritates many ("well, I don't like it!").
        2. -2
          18 January 2022 13: 57
          Quote: Barberry25
          Rogozin can also be scolded)

          offer praise?
          1. -2
            18 January 2022 14: 00
            everyone has their own opinion on this issue) for the topvar audience, he is like a red rag for a bull no matter what) as in general, any event in Russia with a plus sign. I wrote about the news above - people first demand to act, And then they themselves make claims , Moreover, these are the same people who called for a nuclear strike on Kiev and "Fashington" ...
            1. -7
              18 January 2022 14: 47
              Quote: Barberry25
              And then they themselves make claims, and these are the same people who called for a nuclear strike on Kiev and "Fashington" ...

              This is elementary schizophrenia and a complex of dissatisfaction.
              1. 0
                18 January 2022 14: 51
                well, it’s not my fault that there are a lot of them on topvar) in general, in order to draw conclusions on the situation with negotiations, you need to wait, because a stone was thrown. now we are waiting for circles on the water
        3. Aag
          0
          21 January 2022 19: 04
          Quote: Barberry25
          Rogozin can also be scolded)

          As, in my opinion, it is even necessary ...
          And what, not for what?! ..
      2. Aag
        0
        21 January 2022 12: 40
        "... In general, everything is as always in Russia, the dog barks the wind carries ...."
        ... So I would like it differently: "... and the caravan goes on ..."
        And, most importantly, in the right direction for the Country, the people ... hi
        So far it's working just like you wrote...
    2. Aag
      0
      21 January 2022 12: 28
      Quote: Cron
      The principle is as old as the world: if you want to distract the population from internal problems, invent an external enemy. I believe that all these whirling began from here.

      Yeah, Putin was sitting like that for 20 years, pursuing a rather balanced and cautious policy. And then, having defeated our "non-systemic opposition", I decided to challenge in order to distract the next Buffoon. And not just blah blah, but going to a direct confrontation. Which may lead to further deterioration of internal problems, and a rapid one at that.

      An ingenious plan, reliable as a Swiss watch. And these people scold the TV...

      Before "Buffoon" (in your opinion, Roman, in my opinion), there were many different characters! Somehow they did not fight much ....
  9. -2
    18 January 2022 11: 27
    All that is needed now is the LNR and the DNR unite with the restoration of the constitution of Ukraine until 2014 and all laws. Yanukovych is invited to take the place of the president as the legitimate heir of Ukraine. Well, financial assistance - Legal Ukraine should become a showcase for illegal ones. After that, it is Kiev that becomes a separatist, and its support from the West - support for the civil war.
    1. +3
      18 January 2022 12: 43
      Quote: Metlik
      LPR and DPR unite with the restoration of the constitution of Ukraine until 2014 and all laws. Yanukovych is invited to take the place of the president as the legitimate heir of Ukraine.

      laughing Funny glitch.
      Quote: Metlik
      Well, financial assistance - Legal Ukraine should become a showcase for illegal ones.

      For how long? How much to feed a shop window to be seen in the end? Anything can happen to a shop window, but the habit of freebies will remain.
      1. +1
        18 January 2022 12: 52
        Quote: Ashes of Klaas
        Funny glitch.

        Isn't Putin building his position on Ukraine on this? So let it be consistent to the end.

        Quote: Ashes of Klaas
        but the habit of freebies will remain.

        The Donetsk region is an industrial cluster that can feed the whole of Ukraine, it was not for nothing that Hitler wanted to get it in the first place. The only question is competent management, but pro-government managers and oligarchs can only saw.
        1. +2
          18 January 2022 13: 16
          Quote: Metlik
          Isn't Putin building his position on Ukraine on this?

          You must have missed something. Putin considers the Donbass the territory of Ukraine, and the government in Kiev is legitimate.
          1. -1
            18 January 2022 13: 29
            Quote: Ashes of Klaas
            You must have missed something. Putin considers the Donbass the territory of Ukraine, and the government in Kiev is legitimate.

            But he never called the coup in Kiev legal. Why does the government in Donetsk not claim to restore the integrity of Ukraine under its control? Why are the elections there worse than the elections in Kiev?
            1. +3
              18 January 2022 14: 12
              Quote: Metlik
              But he never called the coup in Kiev legal.

              I don't give a damn if he recognized the power that came as a result of it.
              Quote: Metlik
              Why does the government in Donetsk not claim to restore the integrity of Ukraine under its control?

              Maybe because it is not recognized by anyone (including us, which is typical)? As, in fact, the so-called. "republics". Note that only people who are far from making any political decisions and media butts call them "republics". Putin delicately avoids such a term. And the "government" can bring to the surface any passionate nonsense, it's business - no one is cold or hot from this.
              Quote: Metlik
              Why are the elections there worse than the elections in Kiev?

              Elections of whom and where? Last year they elected deputies of the State Duma of the Russian Federation. In 2019, they refused to elect the President of Ukraine. What elections are we talking about?
              1. +1
                18 January 2022 14: 47
                Quote: Ashes of Klaas
                Maybe because it is not recognized by anyone (including us, which is typical)?

                Crimea was also not recognized by anyone. Would you like to give it back?
                1. 0
                  18 January 2022 14: 59
                  Quote: Metlik
                  Crimea was also not recognized

                  what about Crimea? You also offer the Crimeans
                  Quote: Metlik
                  claim to restore the integrity of Ukraine under their control

                  ?
    2. 0
      19 January 2022 20: 49
      You also forgot to say that legal Ukraine must recognize Crimea as Russian)
    3. Aag
      0
      21 January 2022 12: 57
      Quote: Metlik
      All that is needed now is the LNR and the DNR unite with the restoration of the constitution of Ukraine until 2014 and all laws. Yanukovych is invited to take the place of the president as the legitimate heir of Ukraine. Well, financial assistance - Legal Ukraine should become a showcase for illegal ones. After that, it is Kiev that becomes a separatist, and its support from the West - support for the civil war.

      Sorry, I've been drinking a little...
      Happy for you - so much ... to consume (drink, smoke - I don’t know what, but, no worse than many, adequately type comments ...) hi
      ... True, in no way did I want to offend. But what you wrote is from the realm of unscientific fiction ... And, most importantly, who needs it?
      1. 0
        21 January 2022 16: 35
        Quote: AAG
        And, most importantly, who needs it?

        After the occupation of Poland by Germany in 1939, the Polish government moved to London. And the British kept them as allies until the end of the occupation. The same with the De Gaulle government of France - the allies did not recognize Vichy.
        Why do we betray our allies? Do we not support them to the end, do we not believe in the restoration of a Ukraine free from the US special services? Not now, but someday.
        1. Aag
          0
          21 January 2022 18: 21
          It looks like you and I are talking about the same thing: "... Why are we betraying our allies? We don't support them to the end, we don't believe in the restoration of Ukraine free from the US special services?..."
          And how does it compare with current realities?!
  10. +13
    18 January 2022 11: 29
    The author somehow categorically fenced himself off from the "sofa experts".)))
    And what is the difference between one sofa and another - in the diversity of colors?
    All these experts (both on the one hand and on the other) are given information in a plus or minus equal dose and no more than what was obviously supposed to be thrown out for general consumption. Well, let's say you can think of something. But all significant inputs are missing.
    So what are we talking about - about who is couchier?
    1. Aag
      +1
      21 January 2022 13: 25
      Quote: Tagan
      The author somehow categorically fenced himself off from the "sofa experts".)))
      And what is the difference between one sofa and another - in the diversity of colors?
      All these experts (both on the one hand and on the other) are given information in a plus or minus equal dose and no more than what was obviously supposed to be thrown out for general consumption. Well, let's say you can think of something. But all significant inputs are missing.
      So what are we talking about - about who is couchier?

      IMHO: a good, well-founded question. Plus ....
      But! In the article, there was also a conversation about TV experts, heavily paid (by whom, for what ...). I happened to watch today ... I don’t know what to call it, on Channel 2 ... If anything, so for me, even the most "unflattering" "srachs" on "VO" are much more constructive than this rut ​​from "experts" with rather big salaries, information capabilities, and so on ...
      They simply, shamelessly, work out their numbers! And without risking anything!
      ... And yet, perhaps, not entirely in the subject - I don’t know how where, but in Irk. region let a child watch TV - ruin a generation, a country! You look at the broadcasting network, look at what they are broadcasting !!! Is someone in control? (well, except for the "partners"?!!!).
      Here, on "VO", we can foam, even challenge each other to a duel ... And at this time, from the FEDERAL channels, for Our money, Our children will be pumped shit into their heads .....
  11. +7
    18 January 2022 11: 29
    "A month for reflection, which the Russian side identified as American"

    But what about the words of Lavrov, within a week, we are waiting for a written answer? No, well, it’s understandable, such cases are not solved with a tip, and weeks are clearly not enough. But the voice was still voiced .. Therefore, the people got excited, the deadlines were compressed and all that ... winked
    1. +2
      18 January 2022 12: 20
      An interesting point, but will they not give an answer or say no? "Mighty tanks will rumble (c)" ... smile
      1. 0
        18 January 2022 15: 41
        Quote: Daniil Konovalenko
        "Mighty tanks will rumble (s)"

        I prefer the epithet mighty from "The Tale of the Shelf..." Yes
        1. +3
          18 January 2022 15: 43
          "Mighty tanks will rumble (c)".
          And to me: "Funny Tanks will laugh" smile
      2. Aag
        0
        21 January 2022 19: 18
        Quote: Daniil Konovalenko
        An interesting point, but will they not give an answer or say no? "Mighty tanks will rumble (c)" ... smile

        I hope that in the current realities "tanks" are just a figure of speech ... Although, without infantry, with appropriate support, everything is in vain ...
        Or, now it’s possible (?), - to beat the RSD ("Caliber" - how many of them (?) ..., something similar (and what else is there?)), and make you love yourself ....
        No, be afraid - even somewhere, respect, you can force!
        Then what?
  12. +9
    18 January 2022 11: 32
    The opinion of both our sofa experts and more sensible people is interesting.


    I would also suggest listening to the opinion of the site moderators. Another category. You have to steam to the end.
    1. -1
      18 January 2022 15: 42
      Quote: sergo1914
      I would also suggest listening to the opinion of the site moderators.

      But isn't Skomorokhov one of them?
      1. +1
        18 January 2022 15: 50
        Quote: Ashes of Klaas
        Quote: sergo1914
        I would also suggest listening to the opinion of the site moderators.

        But isn't Skomorokhov one of them?


        Of them. The most vicious.
  13. +5
    18 January 2022 11: 34
    I personally don’t believe that our troops will enter Ukraine, they can shoot at the coordinates of the LDNR shelling, but they won’t enter, this is my opinion
    1. +4
      18 January 2022 14: 10
      Like the Saudis in Yemen. Israel in Syria. Americans on Iran. And no war love
    2. -6
      18 January 2022 14: 26
      our troops will enter Ukraine, they can hit the coordinates of the shelling LDNR, but they won’t enter, this is my opinion


      It doesn't make sense. The sanctions will be the same. If you are beaten economically, it's better to come in... laughing
      For me, neither will happen - your economy is too weak and the whole of Ukraine is not worth the sanctions that will put you on a par with North Korea.
  14. 0
    18 January 2022 11: 34
    I can copy my comment from another thread ... it is in place.
    They are still counting on a war in Europe, perhaps a short-term conflict without the use of nuclear weapons. And NATO troops in Europe are just a bargaining chip. Some will try to escape, some will be destroyed. But this is nothing compared to HOW it will be possible to bend the Russian Federation in this case.
    In fact, even if we are only on the defensive, the Western media will put it in a different light. This will give us a reason to completely isolate us from Europe - minus the huge markets, the fall of the economy and the mining industry. How China will act in such a situation is a question.
    We certainly can get the United States and not even with nuclear weapons, but what's the point? Damage in this case will not be very large. But whether the conditions for the use of nuclear weapons will arise is a question in general from the category of science fiction. If you still think critically and sensibly.
    That's the whole alignment, ours calculated it and brought out their claims, from which NATO got a temporary stupor and the memory of the fish turned on. But now they are coming to their senses and will sing their song about democracy, the free world and the aggression of the Russian Federation again.
    1. -5
      18 January 2022 13: 50
      If yesterday, only the atomic bomb was still an argument, now there are such arguments that can turn off, for example, power plants in London with Zircon. Without light and water, they quickly come to their senses and quickly realize that they need to negotiate ..
  15. +3
    18 January 2022 11: 35
    Quote: Roman Skomorokhov
    It is clear that the admission of Ukraine into the ranks of NATO is primarily a problem for NATO and only for NATO.

    What? We have drawn red lines. They said that the admission of Ukraine to NATO is a "red line". And now it turns out let them accept. belay
    It's a good ultimatum. what
    I hope this is just the opinion of the author of the article and Russia will give a tough military-technical and military-political response to the United States, since all the demands were "chattered" and ignored. am
    1. -1
      18 January 2022 11: 55
      He is right about one thing, paper! An official refusal will untie the hands of the Russian Federation in military-strategic terms. The Cold War has officially returned. And the Yankees were not ready for this.
      1. -1
        18 January 2022 12: 52
        Quote: shinobi
        Official refusal will untie the hands of the Russian Federation in military-strategic terms

        What an interesting bureaucratic fantasy.
        Quote: shinobi
        And the Yankees were not ready for this

        yes, eternal losers. Never ready for anything. Whether it's our business - to lose the Cold War and fall to pieces was a "cunning plan" (TM). Now it's hard to keep track of thimbles, "well, dumb-s-th." We are the geniuses of geopolitical cheating.
        1. -3
          19 January 2022 06: 50
          You should at least read the arms treaties, smart guy. Those that are freely available. The bureaucracy in politics will very often be more helpful than the armies. Especially in the rotten UN and the corrupt OSCE.
    2. +2
      18 January 2022 11: 58
      Quote: KKND
      Russia will give a tough military-technical and military-political response to the United States,

      - So, what is next?

      And then, granddaughters, there will be such a struggle for peace that there will be no stone left unturned.
      How did Brezhnevskoe get into childhood wassat
    3. -2
      18 January 2022 12: 06
      Quote: KKND
      and Russia will give a tough military-technical and military-political response to the United States

      Yeah, such a tough guy is expected, such a tough guy .... And the prophecy of Lanky Silver will come true ...
      1. +4
        18 January 2022 12: 23
        Yes-ah-ah, such a tough one is expected, such a tough one
        "They will jump" (c) prices ... And they will tell us, shrugging their hands, the Americans did not accept the ultimatum laughing This is going to be tough.
        1. +3
          18 January 2022 14: 35
          Quote: Daniil Konovalenko
          And they will tell us, shrugging their hands, the Americans did not accept the ultimatum

          Ah, leave! Well, who thinks about the prices for buckwheat when the Motherland is in danger? In the last battle with the adversary, you must go on an empty stomach.
          1. +2
            18 January 2022 14: 38
            In the last battle with the adversary, you must go on an empty stomach.
            ... Yes, yes ... the consequences of a wound in the stomach with a full stomach are more difficult than on an empty one. laughing
  16. +1
    18 January 2022 11: 40
    Yes, European armies are a little more useful than empty space, of course, but such a carnival is highly doubtful.

    Like under two million contract soldiers from the European armies, so then ..
  17. +3
    18 January 2022 11: 42
    We have nothing to threaten the US and NATO, except for nuclear weapons. But the use of nuclear weapons has already been said in advance - no-and-and-zya! And there is no point in accepting Ukraine into NATO, it is possible to deploy US troops there on a bilateral basis. And there is no way we can resist this. And they will also rock the situation with us with the help of all sorts of NGOs and impose new sanctions, and stifle our exports (raw materials, for the most part). They have no reason to negotiate with us, we have nothing to offer them, they want to put us in the same bottle with Iran and North Korea. What can be meant by "military and military-technical response"? Limited non-nuclear strikes against Ukraine, Tribalts, Poland and all kinds of Romanians? Our submarines will hang out off the coast of the mattress? And so they graze there. How can we respond to the entry of American troops into Ukraine?
    1. -1
      18 January 2022 12: 44
      Quote: Yrec
      But the use of nuclear weapons has already been said in advance - no-and-and-zya!

      Who said, who said - to us? - We can - if the situation threatens the very existence of the state ... etc. etc. (by the way, the breadth and variety of interpretations is not limited)
    2. +2
      19 January 2022 10: 14
      Quote: Yrec
      they want to put us in the same bottle with Iran and North Korea

      For some reason, one gets the feeling that we ourselves are crawling into this bottle ... Slowly but surely.
  18. +2
    18 January 2022 11: 45
    From the very beginning of this epic with demands on the West, it was clear that they would send us to a bad mother. It seems to me that those who started this understood perfectly well. to win, we need an unbending leader, well, further according to the scenario that has been rolled out. But this will not make it easier for the people. And here the author wonders what will happen if Ukraine is accepted into NATO out of harm. there And at least some contingent of NATO troops appeared there after 2024 years Well, you understand what I mean, just put up with it and that's it It's a shame, annoying, but okay
  19. +1
    18 January 2022 11: 45
    Well, not from Budun, Putin threw the West to the West. The country has a relative order or a relative mess, in short, everything is as always. Why should Putin call the people to the barricades? It means that something is approaching that we cannot see from our hearth, and the president, due to his committee silence, does not convey everything to us. So our greats, including the ubiquitous and omniscient Roman, are broadcasting experts about what Putin should do or not. Isn't it funny yourself?
    1. +3
      18 January 2022 13: 08
      Well, not from Budun, Putin threw the West to the West.
      ..Everything can be.. wink
      1. +2
        19 January 2022 10: 17
        Quote: Daniil Konovalenko
        Everything can be.

        It is unlikely. However, age ... So it is approaching ... and with it the problem of succession to the throne and guarantees of pension "survival".
  20. -7
    18 January 2022 11: 47
    This hysteria reminds me of something...
    well yes!
    April-May 41". The lessons of the Winter War are forgotten. As well as the lessons of the REV and the Crimean ....
    On foreign territory. Mighty blow. Little blood!
  21. -1
    18 January 2022 11: 51
    The United States is simply trying to save face, since it has already become clear to the whole world that the hegemon is far from being a hegemon. Although this process did not even begin yesterday. Ukraine. The country of victorious maydauns. This is a separate issue. , as actually planned from the beginning. A huge time bomb. Russia did not fall for it. What to do next is not clear. Then only the collapse of the skakuasia along the borders of 1939. The process is already underway.
  22. -5
    18 January 2022 11: 57
    To take Ukraine into NATO out of harm is the best option for Russia. Then Russia can liberate the territory from the Nazis until they destroy the entire Russian-speaking population of Ukraine (Southern Russia).
    And then NATO will show whether they are fascists or democrats. soldier
  23. -1
    18 January 2022 11: 58
    You yourself are a couch expert who cannot see beyond his Claudia. wassat
  24. -6
    18 January 2022 12: 01
    The whole trouble of the authors who write such articles is that they cannot build a logical chain of events. Here, at least, take the points of the requirements of the Russian Federation to the West. The author seems to have indicated that without resolving territorial disputes, they will not be accepted into the alliance, the charter does not allow. Obviously yes, but he forgets one detail in the charter it is also written that an attack on one of the NATO members automatically involves all the countries of the bloc. And now let's take the Budapest Memorandum, there are guarantees for the security and territorial integrity of Ukraine. Whether there is a mutual connection or not. If they did an analysis, then everything falls into place, and all the actions of Moscow and Washington and Brussels are logically clear.
  25. +7
    18 January 2022 12: 03
    Yes, there will be no war!
    Everything is correctly said in the article - all this nonsense about the war is designed for the most primitive part of the population, which must immediately rally, tighten their belts, and courageously wait for the coming of Zircon and Poseidon. And then we'll show them!
    It is not yet known exactly what we will be able to show, but even now, based on some knowledge about our economy, we can say with confidence that we will not be able to scare anyone to death, perhaps we will overstrain ourselves. But we are alive...
    1. -6
      18 January 2022 13: 00
      Quote: Bez 310
      Yes, there will be no war!

      Absolutely right.
      Quote: Bez 310
      the primitive part of the population, which must immediately rally, tighten their belts, and courageously await the coming of Zircon and Poseidon.

      Yes, and you don’t need to wait for anything, everything is already ready, then there is a leisurely “polishing” of the situation with all sorts of “Zircons” / “Poseidons”.
      Nothing prevents us from deploying the Rubezh IRBM in Chukotka (the tests have been passed! So almost for free) and the CRBD (as well as about 6 of your favorite Backfires). from Cuba to Venneswella submarines (at least A at least D) with "Caliber" Someone will feel terribly ticklish and uncomfortable.
      The most important thing is that everything is already there (or almost there), you just need to arrange it correctly.
    2. -5
      18 January 2022 14: 18
      Before the onset of what event to rally? After all, there will be no event. This means that there is no calculation "for the primitive part of the population."
    3. +2
      19 January 2022 10: 19
      Quote: Bez 310
      it's safe to say that we can't scare anyone to death

      And in Voronezh, they may have tensed ...
      1. +2
        19 January 2022 10: 41
        Quote: unaha
        And in Voronezh, they may have tensed ...

        They are familiar, tense, but not afraid.
  26. -1
    18 January 2022 12: 05
    The author, the demand for guarantees is essentially an ultimatum. The US must accept the text in its entirety or reject it. Deadlines have been set for a response. The requirements concern mainly the United States, NATO insofar as; Russia's obligations are mentioned as a pill sweetener.
    About possible answers at rejection. We do not own all the information. But as recent history shows, the foreign policy actions of the Russian Federation are quite seriously thought out. In my opinion of a couch analyst, we just have to stock up on beer and popcorn, not forgetting to inspect the cache in case the drama suddenly turns into tragedy smile
  27. +2
    18 January 2022 12: 07
    It is not entirely clear who will fight with whom. US with Russia? So the United States does not have so many troops in Europe in principle. NATO with Russia? Yes, European armies are a little more useful than empty space, of course, but such a carnival is highly doubtful.

    Why should the United States fight Russia if, according to the latest report of our (not our) Central Bank, about 222 billion dollars of reserves are invested in potentially hostile countries for us.

    Why should the current Russian government fight the US and NATO, if Russia has become dependent on imported seeds from 70 to 90%, in particular for sugar beets and potatoes. Why, if our entire "elite" keeps their billions in foreign currency from Russia's enemies?
    With all this, there is a brisk sale of natural resources and the Soviet military-technical reserve, and, reduction-optimization of industrial enterprises, healthcare, science ...

    "War" - the mother is dear. Some cheeks are puffed up, depicting butting with the owners, others are afraid, playing along with their servants in capitalism. This raises ratings and makes money.

    If there is a war, this is the end of our bourgeois power, because they screw up, they get cold feet.
    For the rest, as in Zhvanetsky's, - "It's okay, Grigory! Excellent, Konstantin!"
  28. 0
    18 January 2022 12: 08
    NATO will take, and in spite of Russia will take Ukraine into its ranks

    They will not accept it, but they will use it as a tool, only not NATO, but the United States.
    It is really necessary to unleash the Third World

    There will be no world peace, but the smoldering Ukrainian conflict will have to be resolved by force, when the question is.
    There is no point in proving to the urya-patriots zombified by television propaganda, switch the picture tomorrow, they will love Ukraine, such a people ...
  29. -4
    18 January 2022 12: 10
    The situation is ambiguous, but ̶u̶l̶b̶t̶i̶m̶a̶t̶u̶m̶ proposals from the leadership of the Russian Federation are more like a gesture of desperation than a conversation from a position of strength. World war, as the only threat that can frighten our "partners", is fortunately unrealistic. Therefore, the negotiations will not lead to any breakthroughs and breakthroughs, except for propaganda ones.
    The side effects of the next "cunning" plan include even greater rallying of the countries of the West, at least demonstratively.
    I repeat what I noted earlier: in order to start acting tough, you need to be clearly aware of your goals, as well as have the necessary resources to achieve them (and to solve the problems that arise in this case), high unity of society, and it is desirable to have normal allies ... What of is this available? The answer seems pretty obvious:
    Over the past 20-25 years, Russia has not "concentrated"; the political and economic decisions that have been made have been unsystematic and inconsistent. The country's dependence on the export of raw materials and low value-added products remains, as the modernization and development of the industry, to put it mildly, is lame. There are no fundamental measures to overcome the flagrant social and ideological stratification of society. The defense potential is sufficient only for the successful conduct of limited armed conflicts or "the whole world is in ruins."
    Regarding the further aggravation of the situation: it's all about the price of the issue. If the Americans and their allies, figuratively speaking, go on principle, then their losses from sanctions will mean much less than the damage caused to us! The probability of such a development of events is XNUMX% in case of too drastic actions on the part of the Russian Federation (according to our "partners").
    Therefore, I see no grounds for special optimism yet ...
    1. -2
      18 January 2022 14: 23
      Not a single country in the world has yet overcome the blatant ideological and social stratification of society. For the entire history of mankind. The difference is only between the blatant, global, irresistible and intergalactic.
  30. -2
    18 January 2022 12: 14
    It's too early to tear your hair on your head, but it's not befitting a strong (if it is really strong) state to fight in hysterics. Rumors about the weakness and helplessness of the Russian army are clearly exaggerated. You should always remember what happens to those who continue to choose shame in the hope of something. Truth and revenge is a dish best served cold.
    Russia has already demonstrated firmness and foresight in gas battles with Europe. Is it really not clear to anyone that the US and the GB are the initiators of the discord here, not wanting to see both Russia and Europe strong and independent. It's just as good to have a dependent market and obedient vassals who believe to find security under the wing of a bald eagle ...
    It was... Passed by... This American concern has already been felt by the leaders of a number of countries in the other world.
    What is happening now? This raised hysteria is intended only for one thing: what if the nerves of the Russian president fail? Suddenly Russia will respond to provocations... Then the whole world will see that "WE WARNED YOU".
    Today is not the time when the hordes of NATO troops can freely, at the appointed hour, launch the mechanism of the Barbarossa-2 plan. Russia has something to meet and respond to. Only the political will today must be gathered into a fist. There will be nothing behind the concessions.
    First you need to bleed (economically) the most rabid neighbor. To bleed so that the residents who remain in their right mind and solid memory themselves raise those who organized this Russophobia to the forks. The only way...
    It's time to close these political shows on the channels. It is disgusting, disgusting and shameful to listen to these homegrown and invited empty talkers. Let them get productive. Stop breeding parasites and parasites. If there should be public broadcasts, then only those that tell about life in the country (albeit bitter) and in what ways and ways we can overcome it.
    People live in poverty, without water, and on the screen there is unbridled continuous fun - a feast during the plague ... Look what happened to the situation with the coronavirus after the holidays ... Who needs it - corrupting people with idleness ... My friends (shopping business) rested only 31-1, and so all Russian trade, energy, metallurgy, etc. etc. With what joy did they receive these presents from abroad?
    This is my opinion, not requiring absolute consent.
    1. +3
      18 January 2022 12: 30
      yuriy55 (Siberian)! In your comment, the beginning and end somewhat contradict each other, it seems to me ...
      ps It is not entirely clear why Barbarossa-2 is needed, if we sell everything that "they" need at a reasonable price, and we ourselves buy the rest from "them" ...
      1. 0
        18 January 2022 13: 24
        Quote: p0pulivox
        ps It's not entirely clear why Barbarossa-2 is needed

        Well, this is to heighten the nauseating pathos. But if we take the "barbarian" metaphor, then No. 2 was in 1991, I suppose. Like the apogee of the Cold War, without any "NATO troops".
  31. -1
    18 January 2022 12: 16
    Without these "preliminaries", hands on the pulse, games of heavy and nuclear weapons, calculations of range and time, readiness and real blows to the teeth will not become Russia's conventional weapons in 200-300 years. Look how cheerfully everything fell down in the 90s and zero. No Iraq, no Libya, no Yugoslavia. They want to demolish Iran, North Korea. Let's not forget Vietnam, Grenada, the Falklands. Divisions of the Wehrmacht on the borders of the USSR in June 41. Do you like it? How is the situation different from the autumn of 1940? As if everything by itself, everyone is to blame, there was no need to war, right?
    In Kazakhstan, gas and oil resources are under the control of foreign big capital.
    There will be a Third Rome.
    History is FORCED like gravity. The number of options for behavior (development of events) is limited to three fingers, not even five. The repeatability of this small number of variants is boundless. Unavoidable repeatability.
    Creeping two-century plans, neglected patterns - will work. Victims of the Unified State Examination, who speak English well (M. Sholokhov, Virgin Soil Upturned), admirers of the Hollywood way of life, will demand the overthrow of the government and put forward their priest Gapon. If only they had enough sosa-sola to live.
    The author somewhat lost sight of the real facts of the movement of military infrastructure to the borders of the Russian Federation, which has no end. Only these facts are worth discussing. So the Russian authorities did not need to artificially look for danger. Why links to talk shows? They do not lead to conclusions, they do not give new knowledge about the facts, like the direction of the wind, for example.
    I would rather talk 200-500 years ahead. Everything is highly programmed. I still see that Russia is being wiped off the map of the world. And Russia, through the mildest options, claims the right to life, and leads not to war, but to a peaceful Caribbean outcome.
    1. +1
      18 January 2022 12: 42
      don't forget Grenada
      ..So Grenada was demolished, in the year 1982, if I'm not mistaken ..
    2. -2
      18 January 2022 13: 50
      Quote: CleanKeys
      History is FORCED like gravity

      powerful metaphor.
  32. -5
    18 January 2022 12: 16
    Another option for solving the problem of a marginal country.
    To create a critical mass, the partners pump weapons, money and moral support into the outskirts. Territorial centers of concentration of the APU and volunteers are being created.
    Provocation.
    Vsu tries to rattle the pots. Most likely, these will be launches of tactical missiles from the presence, the active use of multiple launch rocket systems. Perhaps the use of army aviation. It is important here that the ground forces, which will consist mainly of stubborn or radicals (moral support), remain within compact deployments.
    The answer of the Russian Federation is the use of all types of weapons at the locations of the Armed Forces, control centers, communication points. Decentralization of management.
    What is the result.
    I think that the West is also fed up with this outskirts. But they understand that they have already finished their game. The people are too fooled, a strongly radical wing. And how to "pacify" it? The best way is to recycle. Here in these places of concentration of all, and especially volunteers, this will be done.
  33. 0
    18 January 2022 12: 17
    Quote: Keyser Soze
    Everything is exactly as Roman stated. But the effects of this bedlam are more interesting, and I see them like this:
    1. The Finns are thinking about joining NATO.
    2. All Scandinavia has accelerated the process of its rearmament.
    3. There was a huge outcry in Eastern Europe and Poland and the Baltic states received a new argument in favor of Putin's Russophobia and aggressiveness.
    4. The rearmament of Eastern Europe has accelerated.
    5. Everyone started pumping weapons into Ukraine. The Americans increased military aid by $300 million. Ukraine has returned to the center of attention of the Western world.
    6. There were many ideas in Congress about new and very heavy sanctions, and with them Russia took a step towards North Korea.

    Against the background of this, it seems to me strange this offensive of the Russian authorities, and its result is rather controversial.


    And who said that the Finns are thinking about joining NATO? Stoltenberg? So he grinds more and not that, how much in vain, then he changes his shoes without a twinge of conscience.
    The comparison with North Korea is hardly appropriate. Europe's dependence on Russia is quite large. Europe, of course, is aware, but it is not in a hurry to suffer for someone's interests, but only pulls up, without crossing a certain line.
    Do you want to say that the most unbearable sanctions are not introduced until X hour? And what is this masochism? Russia has been under sanctions all its life, and so what?
    You can fantasize in the same way from your bell tower.
    1. +2
      18 January 2022 13: 51
      And what is Europe's dependence on Russia?
    2. +3
      18 January 2022 14: 23
      And who said that the Finns are thinking about joining NATO? Stoltenberg?

      Finnish Prime Minister Sanna Marin said.
      Finland retains the option to apply to join NATO. This was stated by Prime Minister Sanna Marin, Yle TV channel reports.

      “We retain the opportunity to apply for NATO membership. We must cherish and preserve this freedom of choice, because it concerns the right of each country to make its own security decisions.”
      ..
  34. +3
    18 January 2022 12: 31
    .... Meal'n'Real....
  35. -4
    18 January 2022 12: 37
    There are enough couch experts and jingoistic patriots in the media. But military assistance and pumping up muscles on the outskirts, somewhat reminiscent of the 30s of the last century! Will Hitler be repeated from the outskirts?
    1. +2
      18 January 2022 13: 52
      Quote: your vsr 66-67
      But military assistance and pumping up muscles on the outskirts, somewhat reminiscent of the 30s of the last century!

      Yes? And what?
  36. +1
    18 January 2022 13: 19
    There will be no war! Although someone may need options ...
    I wrote earlier that microchips are not enough for both sides, for a war ... laughing
  37. BAI
    -2
    18 January 2022 13: 49
    The main thing for us is to get a paper from THEM that THEY do not accept our ultimatum!
    - So, what is next?
    - And then WAR IS ON THE THRESHOLD!!!!

    Exactly. Put forward demands that are unacceptable to the US and NATO in order to say later: "We proposed to resolve it peacefully. It did not work out through the fault of the US and NATO." It is obvious.
    Because military intervention of the Russian Federation in a military conflict is inevitable. Justification is in advance. For internal use. In the West, we will be guilty a priori.
    1. +2
      18 January 2022 13: 52
      Anyone who wants a peaceful solution does not present an ultimatum.
  38. +1
    18 January 2022 13: 50
    On the other hand, what exactly happened?

    There was an attempt to revise the Russia-NATO Founding Pact, concluded in 1997.
  39. +1
    18 January 2022 13: 57
    For two years now, the world has stood in a gloomy stupor from the pandemic. Need a pathos illumination. So everyone suddenly started talking about patriotic duty all over the world. Plus, tons of stupidity falls on every head. In America, parts of the world are confused. Our schoolchildren have beguiled the sea into which the Volga flows. Every beautiful word, every beautiful song suddenly and unexpectedly refutes the nature of the one who said, the nature of the one who sang.
  40. +5
    18 January 2022 14: 13
    Territorial disputes and claims take place, all with the same Russia.

    Russia invited NATO to comply with the Charter.

    This is a common misconception. There are no requirements in this regard in the NATO Charter.
  41. 0
    18 January 2022 14: 40
    The opinion of both our sofa experts and more sensible people is interesting.

    In your recent articles, to my regret, emotions have begun to prevail over analysis.
    I suggest you consider the situation more broadly in the following materials. For example, why are the demands put forward at this very hour, after all, we have suffered since the Munich speech of the GDP?
    Let's compare the US now in Venezuela (where is Guaido now?) and Panama then, Afghanistan - the year of negotiations with the Taliban and the flight of 2021 and 2001. and so on. What did they run out of: money, sanctions, navy, missiles and soldiers? Or peaceful protests on the streets of Washington? - It seems not.
    What has changed, Roman?
    I think that understanding the true reasons for these and other steps by the US leadership will provide an opportunity for a deeper analysis of the current situation and its development in your next article.
  42. +1
    18 January 2022 14: 56
    Quote: Kronos
    And what is Europe's dependence on Russia?

    Nothing in your opinion?
    Energy dependence has not gone away and will not be replaced in the near future.
    The survival of enterprises, not to mention competition, with expensive energy resources and, even more so, with their shortage, is very doubtful. Moreover, it is not certain that the decline of a particular sector will not provoke a chain reaction.
    Raw materials also do not suddenly appear out of nowhere and certainly at an affordable price.
    Russia is the fourth largest supplier of products to the EU (not only raw materials and energy carriers).
    Localization of production in the Russian territory. There are thousands of them.
    The loss of the Russian market does not bode well for Europe either.
    And do you think Europe is ready to consciously take such risks?
    1. -3
      18 January 2022 17: 07
      Europe will do what the US says.
  43. sen
    +1
    18 January 2022 15: 02
    There will be no war! Although someone may need options ...

    Why won't it? The United States tried with Georgia did not work, now they want to try with Ukraine, judging by the concentration of Ukrainian troops in the Donbass and the supply of weapons to Ukraine,
  44. +1
    18 January 2022 15: 10
    "Where is the slightest hint of an ultimatum? On the contrary, the Russian side did not set any time limits. We sit down and talk ... Fortunately, there is something to talk about."

    Author, did you fall from the moon? Putin has repeatedly stated that we will not allow time to be dragged out. said that the West would certainly try to play for time, to talk the problem over. We won't allow it. Author, where were you at that time?
  45. +1
    18 January 2022 15: 14
    Quote: Avior
    And who said that the Finns are thinking about joining NATO? Stoltenberg?

    Finnish Prime Minister Sanna Marin said.
    Finland retains the option to apply to join NATO. This was stated by Prime Minister Sanna Marin, Yle TV channel reports.

    “We retain the opportunity to apply for NATO membership. We must cherish and preserve this freedom of choice, because it concerns the right of each country to make its own security decisions.”
    ..

    A little wrong. You thought of it for her. And these are different things.
    They "retain the opportunity" not for the first year, and far from due to the fact that they are not taken into the alliance, like some. They don't need it at the moment.
    Quite indicative of Stoltenberg's recent work for the public, when he guaranteed Sweden and Finland a quick entry into NATO. So who in this case thought?
  46. -4
    18 January 2022 16: 09
    Moscow's response (probable). Recognition of the LDNR within the administrative boundaries of the republics. Deployment of missiles and bombers in Venezuela. Submarine base in Cuba. Placement of missile systems in Belarus and Serbia. You can add troops. That's when they can click in the skull.
  47. +1
    18 January 2022 16: 13
    They overslept the Third World War ... It’s better not to wake up further.
  48. 0
    18 January 2022 17: 08
    I wonder if now, with such a development of events, NATO will take, and in spite of Russia, will accept Ukraine into its ranks? Let's just say, out of harm. Cross the red line. So, what is next? Is it really necessary to unleash the Third World War?

    We will not unleash it, we will only carry out an operation to enforce peace or destroy weapons depots. Other countries have done this more than once and nothing. But if other countries get involved in this matter, then you are welcome to the third world war, but then we will go to heaven.
  49. -2
    18 January 2022 17: 39
    Quote: ALSur
    I wonder if now, with such a development of events, NATO will take, and in spite of Russia, will accept Ukraine into its ranks? Let's just say, out of harm. Cross the red line. So, what is next? Is it really necessary to unleash the Third World War?

    We will not unleash it, we will only carry out an operation to enforce peace or destroy weapons depots. Other countries have done this more than once and nothing. But if other countries get involved in this matter, then you are welcome to the third world war, but then we will go to heaven.

    We have already written about the political and socio-economic consequences for the Russian Federation "we will carry out an operation to enforce peace or destroy weapons depots", I see no reason to repeat. Something else is more interesting.
    I look here is not the first commentator in a clear frenzy talks about "let's get to heaven." This is either some kind of severe aberration of consciousness or a clinical case of propaganda. A reasonable answer seems to be that you can go there with your whole team without delay, since you have a number of options for this.
    And yes, there is no need to generalize that the rest are eager to urgently end the earthly journey under crazy slogans. The funny thing is that those in power are also in no hurry "to go there" ...
  50. +1
    18 January 2022 18: 15
    Quote: Kronos
    Europe will do what the US says.

    This is the fifth case. But they will freeze their own ears in this situation.
  51. -3
    18 January 2022 21: 21
    The opinion of “armchair experts” can be read in VO. The opinion of sober-minded people will not be written by VO.
  52. lot
    -5
    18 January 2022 21: 58
    The opinion of both our sofa experts and more sensible people is interesting.


    It seems to me that it will be like this: all the brothers from the Lake will go with gymnastic sticks at the ready, and with them their uncle from the sea.
  53. -4
    18 January 2022 23: 01
    According to a respected expert, he decided that it would be possible to talk with NATO according to the formula - our problems are ours, but let’s talk about yours in more detail.
    “A quite decent demand. And fair. Why excessive activity in Georgia, Moldova, Ukraine?” - Are these members of the CSTO? Why is Russia's military activity there? And in general, why shouldn’t NATO demand that the CSTO be removed from its borders? Of course, I’m exaggerating, but why would anyone suddenly issue ultimatums to NATO?
    I was especially amused by this argument - “It is clear that the admission of Ukraine into the ranks of NATO is primarily a problem for NATO and only NATO.” So we should be happy, persuade them to accept Ukraine quickly.
    Sorry, author, but your article did not impress even me, the head of the local “Putin Squad”.
  54. -3
    18 January 2022 23: 12
    Moreover, what is most touching is that it is mainly those who are seething and puffing who will definitely not go further than the sofa to fight. But the proud “WE” inspires no worse than “Red Bull”.
    That's it!
    1. lot
      -2
      19 January 2022 08: 36
      Well, Victor50,. Why such pessimism? The Russian Guard will arrive in jeeps, take your son, put him in a truck and on the front line with the children of Peskov, Tolstoy, Rotenberg, the daughters of the guarantor will be like Dasha of Sevastopol. You will see. Everything is fair. You're already unconscripted.
      And they will take a receipt from you. about non-disclosure.
  55. -1
    18 January 2022 23: 12
    and what is the claim that hysterics were created for the absence of a reason? The Americans became hysterical about Russia's imminent aggression against Ukraine. And they did this not without a reason, but for a specific result. Russia responded in kind and also for a specific result.
    Will Ukraine be accepted into NATO? This will be a declaration of the Cold War with a high probability of hostilities. Who would do this? Germany? France? ...they can, if they see that things are so bad with the economy that if not today, then tomorrow there will be a “night of judgment” without an end siren.
    The fighting spirit of the nation must be at the level, these are not calm times. If you demonstrate unpreparedness for war, unwillingness to fight, you can be sure that such sentiments will be taken into account by those who need to...
    why fight? for our people in eastern Ukraine and their lands. It’s as if we are not reaching out for someone else’s, but protecting ours from the clutches of others.
  56. +2
    18 January 2022 23: 21
    We cannot know what exactly they thought at the top. It is clear that no one there expects NATO and the Americans to accept the proposals. This means there is some kind of, if not a joker, then at least a serious trump card.
    And this appeal to the West is essentially very belated, but these trump cards probably did not exist before. By the way, we know some of them, these are the very “cartoons” of Putin that no one laughs at anymore.
    There's probably something else.

    But it seems to me that one mistake was made, the consequence of which is the constant need to talk about the absence of plans to invade Ukraine. It was necessary to voice the plan and constantly refer to it. But the plan is simple, it seemed to be partially announced, somewhere it seemed to be assumed, but it had to be point by point, 1-2-3, etc.
    1. Russia does not take forceful actions against Ukraine until the Ukrainian Armed Forces begin an offensive in Donbass.
    2. If the Ukrainian Armed Forces begin an offensive in Donbass, Russia begins an operation to force Ukraine to the Minsk agreements using aviation, MLRS, artillery, etc. from Russian territory.
    3. If within a certain period of time (3-5-7..days) Ukraine does not announce a ceasefire and does not withdraw troops, Russian troops are introduced into the territory of the LDPR, the Armed Forces of Ukraine are squeezed out of the administrative borders of the Donetsk and Lugansk regions. A second referendum on independence is held on the territory of these regions, and if the outcome is positive, Russia recognizes them, with the signing of a treaty of friendship and mutual assistance and the deployment of troops on its territory.
    4. If Ukraine does not undertake an offensive, but does not continue to implement the Minsk agreements, then it is given a certain period (a year or two no more) to begin implementing these agreements. If this period expires, Ukraine will be presented with an ultimatum; if it is not fulfilled, clause 2 begins and, if necessary, clause 3.
    Well, point 5 - if Ukraine starts shelling newly formed countries recognized by Russia, then the Russian Armed Forces will begin a military operation to force Ukraine to peace. There is no need to even declare war.
  57. -1
    19 January 2022 00: 17
    I wonder, what if now, with this development of events, NATO takes and, in spite of Russia, accepts Ukraine into its ranks? Let's just say, out of spite. Will cross the “red line”. So, what is next?

    I wonder, what if NATO takes over and, in spite of Russia, accepts Ukraine into its ranks? Let's just say, out of spite. Will cross the “red line”.

    - and we out of harm's way we'll pick it up and land on US territory. What's next?
    - and we out of harm's way Let's take it and smash the USA. Further? And then, no USA - no problems.

    The opinion of both our sofa experts and more sensible people is interesting. bully
  58. 0
    19 January 2022 09: 43
    Quote: Ashes of Klaas
    Quote: Metlik
    Isn't Putin building his position on Ukraine on this?

    You must have missed something. Putin considers the Donbass the territory of Ukraine, and the government in Kiev is legitimate.


    How do you know what Putin really thinks?
    “Language is given to a politician in order to hide his thoughts.”
  59. -1
    19 January 2022 15: 49
    Well, what kind of war? The consumptive domestic economy is already on its way out.
  60. The comment was deleted.