Europeans propose to unite in a new way

38
While many European economists say that while maintaining the current financial situation of the European Union, Greece may fly out of the Eurozone by March next year, and the Eurozone itself will cease to exist even after a couple of years, the politicians of European states are trying with all their might to bring the EU boat out of its funnels on the economic and political surface. Now, instead of statements about new and new lending programs for “drowning” states, new ideas are coming. These ideas consist in the fact that Europe needs to be centralized, turning it into a real one united federal state.

Such an idea could cause a storm of applause from European financiers and ordinary citizens even 10-15 years ago, but today many people are skeptical about the idea of ​​European federalism.

To understand what, in fact, the idea of ​​centralization lies in, it is necessary to present the results of the meeting in Brussels of representatives of the foreign affairs agencies of the 27 states of the European Union. The meeting concerned the development of an idea about the movement of a united Europe forward, and this idea came to mind of eleven foreign ministers from 27. The ministers of the 11 states (France, Germany, Poland, Luxembourg, Spain, Denmark, Italy, Portugal, the Netherlands, Austria and Belgium) said that now Europe should take the path of real integration with all the ensuing consequences. These consequences are not only a single European president who will be elected by citizens of EU states, but also a single foreign ministry, as well as a single entry visa, a single police system and even a single army.

It would seem that the idea is simple and clear. The Europeans, in fact, offer themselves to make a choice: either we continue only to pretend that integration is taking place, or we are taking real steps towards political, social and economic unification. And, it seems, everyone says “united Europe”, “united Europe”, and some kind of unity is obtained. Not only does this “single organism” have bigger heads than our Serpent Gorynych, but each head also strives not to give rest to its legs.

It turns out that 11 countries are ready to embark on the path of consolidation and declare this quite openly. However, even the echo of such a decision did not have time to go thoroughly through Europe itself, as the first words were heard that “guys, we are not with you”. One of those countries that was not impressed by the words about the fraternization of European nations under the patronage of a single president was the United Kingdom. In this country, they made it clear that if excessively active states continue to promote their idea of ​​a large consolidation with a single center, then London in general can hold a referendum on its membership in the European Union. They say that neither our prime minister, nor, all the more, Her Majesty the Queen, will participate in the elections of a single president there, whose decrees, judging by everything, will have to obey. Moreover, in case of support for the idea of ​​a real European unification, Britain will lose the right of personal veto, which it has been so actively using lately, and this, as they say, is necessary? ..

Of course, everyone understands that, although the UK is in the EU, this condition can rather be described as “listed”: it’s not going to switch to the euro, it’s often the same to follow the orders of the European Parliament, and generally with integration processes today on Foggy Albion, everything is also somewhat hazy.

However, we will not hang accusatory labels on the British, after all, this is not our business at all, but rather we will try to understand what the EU can transform if it follows the path outlined by the official authorities of the listed 11 states.

However, it is not entirely clear whether these same 11 EU members are going to unite Europe in its current form, that is, if there are still 16 member states or the merge will affect only the specified “core”. If the delight will concern, let's say, a narrow circle of states, then what those who have not been invited to say will say about this. What would it be like that in general: the Union within the European Union or a federation within the unformed confederation?

Most likely, they are going to invite everyone. And all this means both Greece and Bulgaria with Romania, and also Balts with Cypriots. In this case, a hypothetical president of this, if one may say so, a single territorial entity can only be sympathized with. Obviously, this person will have to keep strikes literally from all sides.

It is also not clear what principle the elections for the heads of a united Europe are going to organize if it is a question of the general will of the people. Citizens of many states wish their fellow-countryman to be at the head of New Europe: the Germans will push the Germans (or, more precisely, the Germans), the French - the French, the Italians, of course, the Italian. It seems that the spirit of nationalism and national affinity has not been canceled yet ... Perhaps, even the Cypriots or the Latvians come in to the Cypriot president or the Greek president to rule the federated European Union. Only the main nuance is that the population of Latvia is about 2,2 million, Cyprus - a little more than 1 million, and Germany - 81,7 million. Even if not all Germans are willing to see their representative at the main European post, then he will have much more chances than the same Latvian politician. In order to equalize the chances of applicants, in general it is necessary to introduce coefficients: for example, one Cypriot in voting equates to two Latvians or 80 to the Germans ... Oh, hard work is to count a Latvian with a Cypriot ...

Considering the proposal of 11 activists further, again you can come to very original conclusions. For example, ministers declare that a single army can be formed. Let's not forget that the 11 applicant countries are part of the NATO bloc, and some other EU countries are not. Today, such countries as Ireland, Cyprus, Malta, Sweden, Finland are not members of the North Atlantic Alliance, but are not in the North Atlantic Alliance. If you create a single European army, then either all of these countries need to accept NATO in a fire order, even if they do not want to, or the rest of the North Atlantic Alliance needs to withdraw in no less fire order. Otherwise, it will be necessary to radically redraw the interaction of army units, because, to be honest, the whole world knows perfectly well who in a house like NATO is the main thing ...

But even if Europeans can create some kind of unified army, what about such concepts as conscription service and contract service? This time. And would the Maltese soldiers be sent to serve, for example, in Poland, and the Polish in Germany? And if the Poles want to obey the orders of the German commanders, the question is also very interesting. These are two.

In addition, it is not clear with whom this motley army is going to fight? Of course, interested countries may prompt it: for example, it will shield Europe from the "terrible North Korean threat." So here it is necessary to remind that first the Europeans will have to solve internal problems, which are more than enough. For example, we should not forget about the unresolved Cyprus dispute, when the status of Northern Cyprus remains uncertain. Or, Eastern Cypriots, taking advantage of the fact that they are in a single army, will still attack Turkey in order to liberate the war? ..

In general, the idea of ​​unification for Europe, of course, may seem overdue, but with all due respect for the EU in its current form, it is not clear yet on what principles this idea will be realized, and whether it will be implemented at all. In order to unite so different in spirit, culture, economic indicators, political preferences of the country and the people, you need a real leader who can hardly base his work solely on tolerance and liberal plans. A real unification of this scale is simply beyond the power of current European politicians. Well, the Europeans are not going to declare that, for example, Angela Merkel or Francois Hollande will be able to manage such a mosaic formation as Greater Europe. A person with great charisma is needed here, but unfortunately or fortunately, there are no Napoleon and Alexandrov Macedonian in the European Union today, and, as everyone is well aware, it is possible to bring real order and unify European values, regardless of ideals imposed from outside, by hand. Many have tried differently - no one succeeded ...

However, the Europeans pretty much lost the iron hand. And what will our old friends of the Balts say when they suddenly find out that now they are in the Union, in which the head is going to restore order by far from humanistic methods. Occupation! .. Political voluntarism! .. In general, somewhere we have already heard it ...

So 11 integration friends expressed their opinions, but it’s unlikely that their ideas can really be realized in the near future. In general, dreams, dreams ...
38 comments
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  1. +18
    21 September 2012 08: 19
    Was in Spain and Greece, the local people which loafers still look. No, well, this is everyone’s personal business; if you want to work, you want to not. But you need to stretch your legs on the blanket, otherwise you will get credits, and it will not be clear who will give them back. It’s a pity the Germans are hard workers, they drag on themselves all this rabble, like Russians in the USSR.
    1. +1
      21 September 2012 09: 44
      Quote: bairat
      Sorry for the German hard workers,


      Why should he feel sorry for the adversary? Let it plow, not all Horst Wessel yell,
      1. Konrad
        +4
        21 September 2012 18: 42
        Quote: Vadivak
        not everybody horst wessel yell

        Horst Wessel Germans yelled at Hitler. Now for this you can be in court. You should not consider modern Germans to be fascists.
      2. -2
        22 September 2012 12: 01
        I expected this from many, but not from you. Minus.
      3. 0
        5 October 2012 22: 27
        Quote: Vadivak
        Why should he feel sorry for the adversary?

        The Germans have not been enemies for a long time. And they were not out of simple meanness. Read the book by Nikolai Starikov "Who made Hitler attack Stalin", everything will become much clearer. Nobody says that the Germans are saints, but it is not worth demonizing, they are really hard workers and mostly good people.
    2. +3
      21 September 2012 09: 52
      perhaps I agree.
    3. Morgan stanley
      -8
      21 September 2012 18: 51
      Quote: bairat
      like Russians in the USSR.

      What??? You yourself kept everyone! You begin to ascribe to yourself what was not there, this is how the USA ascribes victory to itself in the Second World War. Ukraine, Belarus, fed all those whom you kept.
      1. 0
        22 September 2012 09: 59
        Imagine that Russia hasn’t disappeared, and simulate the story anew until which century Ukrainians could hold out? I remind Kaffa the largest slave market of the Crimean Tatars
        1. -1
          22 September 2012 12: 04
          You should at least look at Wikipedia, Café is written with one F
          1. -1
            22 September 2012 21: 21
            http://ru.wikipedia.org/wiki/%C8%F1%F2%EE%F0%E8%FF_%D4%E5%EE%E4%EE%F1%E8%E8

            Kaffa - the capital of the Genoese Crimea
        2. Morgan stanley
          0
          27 September 2012 17: 53
          There is nothing to model here, since there is no Russia, then the actions of other states would be different.
    4. 0
      22 September 2012 01: 50
      The Greeks are by no means idlers, but they are doing everything very slowly. But they are doing well.
  2. BAT
    +2
    21 September 2012 09: 45
    Utopia. All these projects are so unreal that there is no point in talking about them. The European Union in its current form is bursting at the seams, but in the fact that it is being offered it is simply a stillborn child. It won't last a single day. In general, that. wait and see. As it was said in one comedy film: "If you want to live, you will not be so upset.:
    1. +6
      21 September 2012 09: 51
      Quote: sichevik
      The European Union in its current form is cracking at the seams,


      Here they are, grave diggers of united Europe
      1. 0
        21 September 2012 17: 08
        it's just a weak link. the weakest.
  3. +5
    21 September 2012 10: 23
    Actually, the EU created more as political union and not economic. It’s not a secret that the main fiddle is played. Germany and France play in this union. Bankrupt states drag them into the pool and when one of these listed states leaves the union, the EU will cease to exist.
    The fact that this union will collapse sooner or later, I have no doubt .. The whole question is when ?!
    1. +11
      21 September 2012 10: 52
      Greeks, Bulgarians, Romanians know how and love to live like in "Germany". And they do not know how to work as in "Germany" and do not want to.
      1. Septugian
        0
        21 September 2012 18: 38
        This is the phrase of the week as a minimum, I demand a vote! +++++++++++++++
        1. Septugian
          0
          21 September 2012 22: 45
          It seems the Greeks or Romanians with the Bulgarians went to the site! lol laughing
    2. 0
      21 September 2012 17: 00
      Quote: Apollon
      The whole question is when?

      when the money runs out from Germany and France to the rescue of the drowning, or patience.
      1. 0
        21 September 2012 17: 56
        Quote: stariy
        when the money runs out from Germany and France to the rescue of the drowning, or patience.

        The salvation of drowning people is the work of the drowning people themselves.
  4. +4
    21 September 2012 10: 26
    Good morning friends!
    To be honest, the Greeks were pulled into this swamp by the Olympics in Athens.
    When there, a year before the opening of the games, the construction sites were in full swing. I watched an interview with the mayor of Athens; there was a woman I can’t remember my name. And she said that we need to borrow money to build it all. And I didn’t remember the exact amount, but the amount was enormous. Then the story went that it was for children and grandchildren and so on .... I then thought how such a small country could
    industry on tourism alone to pay off debts. This was not possible from the very beginning. Knowing the mentality of the Greeks. How do they pay taxes. In Russia, more cash receipts are issued when you buy something. And there they pay even less taxes. They try to grab more from the budget, and sit down, crack and drink ouzo.
    1. V world
      +1
      23 September 2012 01: 52
      I agree. We can also add that those who drive the UN, IMF, NATO, etc. are behind the wheel of the Olympic Games ...
      Everyone probably remembers what happened in Yugoslavia after the Olympics in Sarajevo ..
      Greece was a strong State when Anasis was. After him, it took a lot of strength to ruin and lower Greece like that! Here, trade union movements struggled for the rights of workers, and in practice against the state. IMF with its help, but in practice brought Greece to bankruptcy. A pro-European government with democratic laws ...
      The same thing happens with other countries ...
      The old world is already very old ... and is living ... Soon we will be shown a new scenario of a single European order !!!
      1. +1
        23 September 2012 11: 11
        V world,
        Absolutely true. I’m sure that you can add a lot more. What did not occur to us at the moment.
        Quote: V-mir
        Soon we will be shown a new scenario of a unified European order !!!

        Yes, only when the "democrats" squeeze at least a little. Something sensible will turn out.
  5. 0
    21 September 2012 10: 28
    A single federal state and most likely led by the Germans.
    Not when Fritz was not so close to his goal.
  6. +4
    21 September 2012 10: 50
    "Oh, this is not an easy job -
    Count a Latvian with a Cypriot ... "

    They don’t get a shisha
    With a Cypriot, count the Latvian fellow



    Greeks, Bulgarians, Romanians know how and love to live like in "Germany". And they do not know how to work as in "Germany" and do not want to.
  7. ded
    +1
    21 September 2012 10: 59
    ... a single army can be formed ...


    And here is the military uniform unified army:
  8. +1
    21 September 2012 11: 20
    it’s personal to me personally what’s happening in Europe ... let them as they like, they live, their problems must be solved
    1. Konrad
      0
      21 September 2012 18: 49
      Quote: sasha 19871987
      it’s personal to me personally what’s happening in Europe ... let them as they like, they live, their problems must be solved

      That is how most people in the West live. Only our, terribly politicized people, before everything and everyone cares. Correctly you noticed - you need to solve your problems, and not teach others.
  9. +2
    21 September 2012 11: 39
    "However, the Europeans are pretty much out of the habit of an iron hand. And what will our old acquaintances, the Baltic states, say when they suddenly learn that they are now in a Union in which the head is going to restore order by far from humanistic methods. Occupation! .. Political voluntarism! .. in general, somewhere we have already heard this "This paragraph pinned me, but the author is right, imagine that this will happen, will the Balts silently enter this union in a rag?
    1. BAT
      0
      21 September 2012 12: 31
      Where will they go? Do they have a choice? Wanted the European Union, so get it. Who will ask them? Who pays, he orders the music. And all these European Union rogues have to dance to this music. Here they are dancing. And if they withdraw from the union, then the loss is not great ...
  10. GP
    GP
    +2
    21 September 2012 14: 11
    Europe:
    Union - a united Europe; Euro;
    Soviet - the deliberative body of the European Parliament;
    Socialist - a clear social orientation of European states;
    Republics - what they are in bulk and are Germany, the French Republic
    The result: the USSR laughing
  11. 8 company
    0
    21 September 2012 16: 02
    An acquaintance often travels to Slovenia on business, only that he has returned again. As usual, the Slovenes complained to him about the hard life: the salaries are low, one and a half Euros; cars are forced to buy inexpensive, "French" are now more popular than "Germans"; there are fewer tourists, the sea is colder ... The trouble, in short ... sad
  12. +2
    21 September 2012 21: 00
    Quote: sasha 19871987
    it’s personal to me personally what’s happening in Europe ... let them as they like, they live, their problems must be solved

    We are connected with Europe through economic relations, we do not produce much, many imported components go to domestic products. So if the European market collapses, we will not stand aside, it will affect us.
  13. Stasi.
    +1
    23 September 2012 10: 01
    The position that the EU now has is largely to blame for the Europeans themselves. Firstly, the European Union was created as a political union and not an economic one. After the collapse of the Warsaw Pact and the USSR, Eastern Europe joyfully rushed into NATO and other Western structures, fearing as if the Russians would not change their minds. And the Westerners were glad to accept everyone, if only to expand their sphere of influence. And only now it became clear that the economies of different countries and the rich had to put the poor on their necks, in fact Germany was feeding the entire Eurozone, but this situation could not be eternal, the Germans were becoming more and more tired of feeding all sorts of Greeks and other hangers-on. And without German support, everything will collapse. Secondly, the domino effect was the bombing of Yugoslavia, it was a blow to the nascent euro, which could become a competitor to the dollar. Only here the Europeans, allowing the Americans to bomb Yugoslavia as they say, sawed off the branch on which they sat. In general, a united Europe will not work, this project, despite all its temptation, was not viable. Perhaps the time of a united Europe has not come yet.
    1. +1
      23 September 2012 11: 21
      Quote: Stasi.
      The position that the EU now has is largely to blame for the Europeans themselves.

      Absolutely true.
      Quote: Stasi.
      Firstly, the European Union was created as a political union and not an economic one.

      I slightly disagree. Economic considerations prevailed in this union more than political ones. A simple example. As a resident of Europe, I can work in any country of this union. Also, firms can open their branches in the aisles of this union without problems. But there is no central concrete policy that would do something for the good of Europe. It turns out like Krylov's "Once a swan with cancer pike" And things are still there.
      Everyone throws a blanket over themselves, snatch now. And then don't give a shit.
      1. Stasi.
        +1
        23 September 2012 17: 09
        It should also be noted that the European Union as such and its euro currency are competitors to the US and the American dollar. Many problems of Europe are initiated by the Americans. As long as American military bases are located in Europe, the American reserves of Fort Knox will hold gold reserves both in Germany and other European countries - no single Europe will succeed, this is not beneficial for the Americans. Also, NATO membership impedes European integration, because this block was created for service American interests.
        1. 0
          23 September 2012 17: 27
          Yes, they had an agreement. We (America) will guard you. Europe realized that nothing good would come of it, but it was too late. We climbed "under the wing" of America. Then the current friction started inside because of this. And in addition, Germany has become impoverished, the potential has increased. America and England did not like it at all. Kohl then just canceled all the meetings for a week. There were meetings with the ministers, so I would like to find out what they agreed then
          1. Stasi.
            +1
            23 September 2012 20: 54
            The unification of Germany did not like Margaret Thatcher the most; she simply fell into hysteria when she heard that Germany was unifying. In general, the first idea of ​​the unification of Germany was proposed, surprisingly, by Lavrenty Beria. But then it was impossible. Europe now faces the problem of identity and self-preservation. It is no secret that Europeans have few children, but immigrants from Asia, Latin America, Africa and the Middle East have many children. Germany frankly more and more falls under the influence of the Turks, denounces. In order to preserve its identity and culture, Europe will have to drive out all the foreigners and pursue a protectionism policy towards its citizens. But these measures are inherently undemocratic, hardly any European politician would do that. Although now more than ever, Europe has a choice: either to expel all non-Europeans and preserve its identity and culture, or leave everything as it is and thereby predetermine its disappearance.
  14. codvosem
    0
    23 September 2012 21: 02
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  15. DAOSS
    0
    25 September 2012 01: 35
    In the USSR, this problem was solved and no one complained.
    The problem is far-fetched.
    1. Stasi.
      0
      25 September 2012 21: 40
      No, dear, the problem is just a close-up. In the USSR, the interethnic problem looked different, there the peoples formed a single state in the course of history, we were a single nation. And only servility, thoughtless transfer of funds to all sorts of Baltic countries and other republics generated a disregard for the Russians and wild tribal nationalism. And Europeans have completely different relations with immigrants from Asia, Africa, Latin America and the Middle East. All these parts of the world were colonies of Europe, due to them Europe became rich and accumulated a significant financial fat, which is now forced to spend. Natives of these countries regard Europeans as former colonialists and, accordingly, do not feel special love for them. Europe is losing its European character, it is colonized by the descendants of former slaves, immigrants from former colonies. So it is impossible to compare international problems in the USSR and contemporary in Europe, they have different reasons.