Military Review

The Mystery of the Bayeux Tapestry. And the fight broke out!

135

«Here he is, William!» The decisive moment of the Battle of Hastings. Rice. Angus McBride


Ravens gather more:
"Where are you flying from?" - "I'm drunk with blood,
I am flying from the Hastings field!
The Saxons didn’t have a king yesterday,
Lying between his he killed
The Norman feasts, dividing his land,
And we feasted there full.
Victory from York was the Saxon army,
Now they are quiet and quiet
And their corpse Harald can not be found
Mnihi wandering among the corpses ...
"Three Battles" Alexei Tolstoy

Rarities stories. Today we return to the theme of the legendary "Bayeux tapestry" and continue our story about the events depicted on it. We settled on the fact that the battle of the British and the Normans was about to begin. Today our story will be devoted to the course of this battle, and then we will talk about its consequences.

The Mystery of the Bayeux Tapestry. And the fight broke out!
François Debon (1807–1872). Battle of Hastings 1066 (1845) Caen, Musée des Beau-Arts, France

So, let's start with the fact that many British historians believe that, although, judging by the results of recent research, only two people embroidered the tapestry, and these were most likely men, to find out exactly from it what really happened in the Battle of Hastings, impossible. Rather, there is a rather big difference between what is embroidered on the tapestry and the actual course of the battle.


Duke Wilhelm admonishes his warriors, and the battle begins... Scene 51

For example, it clearly shows that only one cavalry and a certain number of foot archers are active in the battle from Wilhelm's side. However, other sources that have come down to us tell us that large infantry forces operated in it. Moreover, the Norman horsemen at the very beginning of the battle stood in the rear, and only at the end moved forward. Although, if you look at the tapestry, we will not see it there. By the way, there are a lot of archers on the Bayesque tapestry: 29 figures. But 23 of them are on the border, and not on the main field, which clearly indicates their secondary role in the battle, and this despite the fact that many Saxon horsemen and foot soldiers on the main field are downright studded with arrows. Four Normans are depicted on the tapestry wearing protective weapons and with bows in their hands, but one single Saxon archer is dressed in ordinary clothes. There is only one horse archer, without protective weapons, and is depicted among the Norman knights pursuing the Saxons. And since all the details of the weapons are shown on the embroidery in great detail and with skill, this gives grounds for the conclusion that such an image clearly had some very specific purpose. But what? To rewrite history, how is it now fashionable to talk about it here in Russia? But what is the meaning of this rewriting? It was the Normans who won, not the Saxons. And this is known from many handwritten documents, and not just from one tapestry.


Scene 52a. Nothing is written here - and it's so clear that a fierce battle is going on


Scene 52b. And here is an explanatory inscription:Here fell Leofwyn and Girth, King Harold's brothers.»

Be that as it may, but in the school history textbook (and, by the way, not only in the school, but also in the university!) It is written that the main role in this battle belonged to the Conqueror's cavalry. That she several times attacked the British, who were hiding on a hill behind "shield wall”, and then, with a feigned retreat, lured them to the plain, where she surrounded and destroyed. That is, the English on foot rushed to pursue the fleeing horsemen (?) and, of course, completely upset their orders, and it was then that the Norman cavalry attacked and destroyed them.


Scene 53Here the British and French fall at the same time in battle»

Somehow it all looks ridiculous. But Harold, who led the British, was not a novice in military affairs. He had just won a decisive victory over the Norwegians. Quickly transferred his forces from the battlefield at Stamford Bridge to Hastings and for some reason, like a child, fell for such a simple trick as a false retreat. It is also unclear why his army on the tapestry consists exclusively of infantry, although the shields of his warriors do not differ from the horsemen's shields of the Norman warriors! It is not clear how Harold died.


Scene 54. It depicts Bishop Odo with a club in his hands. The inscription, however, reads:Here Bishop Odo, holding a staff, encourages the youths". Bakulum is exactly the staff, that is, the sign of his military command!


Scene 55Here is William!» It is interesting that Count Eustachius has a banner in his hands. It may be the same one sent by the Pope to show his support for Duke William's invasion of England.


Scene 56. A desperate fight between mounted and foot soldiers. There are many archers on the border. The explanatory inscription reads:Here the French fight and kill those who were with Harold". Interestingly, the word “Franci” is sometimes used to refer to the Normans in the inscriptions on the tapestry, although the Normans at that time did not consider themselves French, even though they already spoke French.

It is believed that he was first shot in the eye with an arrow and then hacked to death by the swords of the Conqueror's riders. Perhaps the secret of the tapestry lies precisely in the fact that at Hastings on the day of the battle it was not Duke William's horsemen who won, but the infantry and archers of Count Eustace (Eustace) of Boulogne, who literally bombarded the British with their well-aimed arrows. And only at the very end of the battle, the knightly cavalry of Duke William went on the attack on the British, and even then they acted unsuccessfully. After all, the horsemen, in order to get to the "wall of shields", had to overcome a steep climb up the hill. The hill itself is very narrow, similar to a curved ax blade, and there is simply nowhere else to fit on it except for the infantry that occupied it.


The 57th and one of the most celebrated and famous scenes of the tapestry: the death of King Harold. But it turns out that Harold is depicted here twice (the tapestry in this place is quite difficult to interpret). First, it is shown that Harold retrieves the arrow that struck him in the eye, and then he is already falling, chopping with a Norman knight's sword. The explanatory inscription explains little, except for the very fact of the death of the king: “Here King Harold is slain»

But the fact is that the Norman knights who reached the top of the hill could not gallop quickly, and would be completely helpless. One might think that this was exactly what happened, and that it was then that they were retaliated by Harold's Huskerl warriors. It was then that the rumor spread that Duke Wilhelm had been murdered. After that, panic began, and then it was Count Eustachius who organized an attack on the British from the flank, rode ahead of his people with a banner in his hands and shouted: “There he is, William!And just at that moment Wilhelm threw his helmet back on the back of his head. The warriors immediately recognized him and again rushed into battle. That's just to send the cavalry up the mountain to the wall of shields ... Well, Wilhelm could not do that. No person in their right mind would do that.


The last surviving piece of tapestry is episode 58: Harold's warriors flee, and the Normans pursue them. The caption reads: "and the British take flight»

As for Harold's warriors, his warriors were exactly the same horsemen as Wilhelm's warriors, except perhaps for those very famous huskerls, but there were not many of them at all. Perhaps Harold did not trust his warriors and therefore, fearing betrayal, ordered them to fight on foot, and the horses were in the nearby forest behind the hill. Because it was on horseback that they fled after the defeat, which the 58th episode of the tapestry shows us.


Knight of Normandy 1066. Illustration from H. J. Winkhuizen's collection of images of military dress (1843–1910). New York Public Library


Norman archer 1066. Illustration from H. J. Winkhuizen's collection of images of military dress (1843–1910). New York Public Library

Then the characters from Aesop's fables on his border did not appear by chance. They clearly say:Here everything is the same as in Aesop, has a double meaning. Remember this!But, unfortunately, we can only guess if this is so in reality.


Horace Vernet (1789–1863). "Queen Edith Finds the Body of Harold" 1827 Thomas-Henry Museum, Cherbourg

And this is how the battle of Hastings could have happened - a modern reconstruction.


First phase: Harold's warriors stand at the very top of the hill, lined up in a long winding line, and cover themselves with "snake-like" shields. Their opponents the Normans move up in three lines. The archers go first, followed by the infantry, and behind all the detachments of the knightly cavalry. And there are few riders. The left flank is commanded by Duke Wilhelm himself, the right flank by Count Eustachius of Boulogne


Second phase: The Norman archers have shot all their arrows and retreated to the camp to resupply them. The Norman infantry is attacking the "wall of shields", but it is successfully reflected


Third phase: archers reappear on the battlefield and bring down a hail of arrows on the British. King Harold is shot in the eye with an arrow. Here Harold's warriors do not withstand the shelling from the bows and rush to the archers down the hillside. There was no planned retreat, people were simply tired of standing and dying. Wilhelm's warriors, including the horsemen, are taken by surprise by this attack. There is panic. A rumor is spreading among the warriors that the duke has been killed.


Fourth phase: Count Eustace of Boulogne, at the head of his cavalry, goes to the aid of William. A timely attack by the Count of Boulogne's cavalry on the flank and rear of the advancing British leads to a turning point in the battle. The Saxons stranded on the plain are surrounded and destroyed.


Fifth phase: The Norman infantry and cavalry work together to overcome the thinned "shield wall", Harold dies, and his surviving warriors are saved in the forest, where they mount their horses and take flight

To be continued ...
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  1. Catfish
    Catfish 23 January 2022 06: 05
    +11
    Good morning friends! smile

    Apparently, you can write endlessly about this tapestry, but it’s still interesting to read, and thanks to Vyacheslav for the detailed disassembly.

    William the Conqueror, portrait.

    Count Eustace of Boulogne, I did not find the image, there is an engraving, the signature under which says that Count Eustace is present on it, but who exactly is not specified.

    Out of resentment for the count, instead of his portrait, he decided to insert the coat of arms of the glorious county of Boulogne.
    1. kalibr
      23 January 2022 07: 18
      +6
      Quote: Sea Cat
      Apparently, this tapestry can be written endlessly,

      There is always an end. There will be more material.
      1. Kote Pan Kokhanka
        Kote Pan Kokhanka 23 January 2022 08: 00
        +5
        Quote: kalibr
        Quote: Sea Cat
        Apparently, this tapestry can be written endlessly,

        There is always an end. There will be more material.

        Look forward to!
        Special thanks for the diagrams of the battle episodes. Very visual!
        1. kalibr
          23 January 2022 11: 08
          +5
          Quote: Kote pane Kohanka
          Very clear!

          I had to work on British sources for a long time. But the result paid off.
      2. Trilobite Master
        Trilobite Master 23 January 2022 13: 02
        +7
        My respect, Vyacheslav Olegovich. hi
        Quote: kalibr
        There is always an end. There will be more material.

        Too bad there's only one. According to the Middle Ages, the site has a clear "drawdown", so for me personally, each material on this topic is just worth its weight in gold. smile
        According to the article itself:
        riders had to climb a steep hill to reach the "wall of shields". The hill itself is very narrow, similar to a curved ax blade, and there is simply nowhere else to fit on it except for the infantry that occupied it.

        Here is a contemporary photograph of the Senlak Hill where the battle took place:

        Actually, Harold's positions were where the abbey is located and we are looking at this hill from the place where William was probably before the battle.
        It is possible, of course, that the landscape has changed a lot since then, and in 1066 the hill was steeper, but now, as a place convenient for defense, it is completely unimpressive - a flat top, gentle slopes, and the absence of any natural obstacles from the flanks. ..
        So, it seems to me, a cavalry attack on the British formation was quite possible, and there, at its top, is quite enough space to sort things out with two relatively small companies of unfriendly men towards each other. smile
        1. kalibr
          23 January 2022 19: 32
          +2
          Quote: Trilobite Master
          Too bad there's only one.

          Already two!
      3. astra wild2
        astra wild2 23 January 2022 15: 34
        +1
        Quote: kalibr
        Quote: Sea Cat
        Apparently, this tapestry can be written endlessly,

        There is always an end. There will be more material.

        I hope that you will not stop at the tapestry. Do you still have "sweet donuts" in your "table"?
    2. Korsar4
      Korsar4 23 January 2022 08: 07
      +9
      Under one of the three thimbles you will find a real portrait of Count Eustace of Boulogne.
      1. Catfish
        Catfish 23 January 2022 11: 29
        +5
        Something like that, huh? laughing

        1. Korsar4
          Korsar4 23 January 2022 11: 41
          +5
          Black glasses cannot but be attached to Eustace.
          1. Catfish
            Catfish 23 January 2022 11: 53
            +5
            As well as Alex. wink
            1. Phil77
              Phil77 23 January 2022 12: 24
              +7
              "Stirlitz led a double life and really hoped that at least one of them would turn out well." bully
              1. Catfish
                Catfish 23 January 2022 19: 48
                +6
                You can get a good job with two paychecks. wink bully
                1. Korsar4
                  Korsar4 23 January 2022 20: 39
                  +5
                  “And if the salary does not allow you to live,
                  So you do not live - no one is in bondage! (With).

                  (True, I don’t know whose. Maybe folk?).
                  1. Catfish
                    Catfish 23 January 2022 21: 06
                    +5
                    "I beg you, don't torment me,
                    And then I'll be very angry with you!
                    You just give me my salary
                    And I’ll quietly get drunk today ... "(c)


                    1. Korsar4
                      Korsar4 23 January 2022 21: 59
                      +4
                      "Not true! - come quietly
                      Ask for a hundred-ruble.
                      And what about the knife?
                      And the robbery?
                      Change the wording! " (with).
                      1. Catfish
                        Catfish 23 January 2022 23: 33
                        +3
                        "Boys are walking,
                        All in jackets
                        Naga Nagans
                        They have it in their hands.
                        Fashion shirts -
                        solid starch,
                        And life is hungry
                        Empty pocket." (c)
                2. Phil77
                  Phil77 24 January 2022 08: 13
                  +2
                  "get settled".
                  I think that one can be glad for citizen Miller. Now 50 percent of the "communal" will be paid by "hey labor???? Russia." bully bully bully
                  There is such a profession - "loot" to row with a shovel. A social package, housing, a decent salary, professional growth are attached. laughing
                  1. Catfish
                    Catfish 24 January 2022 15: 16
                    +2
                    They are all well settled there in their reserve. Old Man Makhno is not on them. angry
    3. Aviator_
      Aviator_ 23 January 2022 17: 13
      +7
      Out of resentment for the count, instead of his portrait, he decided to insert the coat of arms of the glorious county of Boulogne.

      Suddenly reminded

      1. Catfish
        Catfish 23 January 2022 19: 21
        +4
        Ek you, Sergey, surrounded this unfortunate Boulogne. laughing
        1. Aviator_
          Aviator_ 23 January 2022 19: 24
          +5
          So I say - it suddenly reminded me - somewhere I have already seen the basis of the coat of arms. That's what I remembered. And there was nothing for them there to draw their coat of arms in such detail, also to me, the unfortunate blazonirs, first they draw, then they are offended.
  2. avaks111
    avaks111 23 January 2022 06: 31
    +2
    Judging the true story by the tapestries...
    1. kalibr
      23 January 2022 07: 15
      +6
      Quote: avaks111
      Judging the true story by the tapestries...

      It’s better than nothing ... We don’t have anything at all about many of its events ...
    2. 3x3zsave
      3x3zsave 23 January 2022 07: 49
      +11
      Well, right! "Tapestry from Bayo", it is for suckers, but for real boys - Fomenko!
    3. Kote Pan Kokhanka
      Kote Pan Kokhanka 23 January 2022 08: 14
      +9
      Quote: avaks111
      Judging the true story by the tapestries...

      If we discard the intrigues of the Vatican, the Germans and the masters of the West, and take a sober look at the artifacts of that era that have survived to this day, then the Bayeux tapestry is essentially unique. One of the first attempts to illustrate the event of history. No less significant than the columns of Trojan and Giulio.
      To be honest, we are left to regret that such an idea did not come to the domestic princes and hierarchs. It would be nice to have illustrated with scenes of the formation of the Russian state on the walls, for example, the Demetrius Cathedral in Vladimir.
      And so we have only PVL from the monumental ones!
      1. Kote Pan Kokhanka
        Kote Pan Kokhanka 23 January 2022 09: 10
        +8
        You yourself are Julio, of course Dulio (and the fucking auto-correct happily inserted Julio without my consent)! Is it possible that in Russian the ancient commander Dulio is mentioned less often than the notorious Spanish Julio? Or the word history, which he "electronic mind" is trying to replace with Istria?
      2. 3x3zsave
        3x3zsave 23 January 2022 09: 17
        +6
        And so we have only PVL from the monumental ones!
        "The damned hamster ate everything!" (WITH) crying
    4. Trilobite Master
      Trilobite Master 23 January 2022 11: 44
      +6
      Quote: avaks111
      Judging the true story by the tapestries...

      Some judge by drawings made a couple of hundred years after the events, and maps drawn according to rumors ...
      And here, besides the carpet, there are still a lot of sources, you just don’t know about them, and, apparently, you don’t want to know ..
      1. Kote Pan Kokhanka
        Kote Pan Kokhanka 23 January 2022 12: 37
        +7
        There are more than enough finds relating to the era of William the Conqueror, but any artifact must not only be obtained or dug up, at least it must be introduced into scientific circulation, and this is not easy. The texts of the books were copied, mistakes or banal additions were made in them, when a self-confident monk tried to explain to a contemporary reader about the realities of days gone by. So the material has to be tied to dates and events, and the written has to be critically evaluated.
        Homer and the Unknown Author of "The Tale of Igor's Campaign" wrote "poems" based on their knowledge of history, but can they be trusted verbatim?
        Nestor (Sylvester) and all those who followed him wrote "history" on their plan of history! And therefore, direct quotations from the Bible and the mention of the creation of the world are not surprising! So it was before and after! Even today, everyone has their own truth, so any grain of knowledge is priceless:
        1. Trilobite Master
          Trilobite Master 23 January 2022 13: 12
          +5
          Vlad, in any case, the carpet is an additional source of information about the Norman conquest, and not the main one. Of course, sources - archaeological, textual, and any - must be treated with a great deal of caution and criticism. Nobody argues with this, well, I mean sane people. smile
          Written sources can deliberately lie, they can be honestly mistaken, they can be misunderstood by us - simply because the author of the document and the modern researcher think differently.
          That, in fact, is the work of a historian, in my opinion, to collect the maximum amount of information from all possible sources, analyze it and reconstruct events. And then defend your reconstruction from the criticism of colleagues. smile
          1. Kote Pan Kokhanka
            Kote Pan Kokhanka 23 January 2022 16: 58
            +6
            The tapestry is naturally a secondary source, for the history of the invasion of William the Conqueror, but paramount for the history of art and culture!
            1. Trilobite Master
              Trilobite Master 23 January 2022 17: 32
              +5
              Yes, the thing is unique, even for the West.
              1. 3x3zsave
                3x3zsave 23 January 2022 17: 47
                +4
                a unique thing, even for the west
                Well, not really, there is another "medieval comic book" artifact - the "Oxford Chest".
                1. Trilobite Master
                  Trilobite Master 23 January 2022 17: 50
                  +5
                  Also an interesting thing. It is necessary to ask Vyacheslav Olegovich to write a cycle about him. smile
                  But that's three centuries later...
                  1. 3x3zsave
                    3x3zsave 23 January 2022 18: 08
                    +4
                    I also had such an idea, but there is a nuance ... I can imagine how Shpakovsky works ... I bet he will not take up this topic.
                    1. Trilobite Master
                      Trilobite Master 23 January 2022 19: 37
                      +4
                      Let the girls ask. smile Idol fans will not refuse. smile
                      1. 3x3zsave
                        3x3zsave 23 January 2022 19: 43
                        +4
                        The girls won't ask. Girls are completely unaware of the role of women in medieval European society. And Lyudmila Yakovlevna, among them.
                    2. kalibr
                      23 January 2022 19: 43
                      +3
                      Quote: 3x3zsave
                      I bet he won't take this subject.

                      You lost, Anton. I took it. I'll contact the Ashmolah Museum and... I'll write why not. And the scheme of the battle can be A - found and B - asked to draw A. Sheps.
                      1. Trilobite Master
                        Trilobite Master 23 January 2022 19: 49
                        +4
                        That's it, Anton. smile
                        Thank you, Vyacheslav Olegovich. Will wait. The topic is really interesting and non-trivial.
                      2. 3x3zsave
                        3x3zsave 23 January 2022 19: 54
                        +3
                        You lost, Anton.
                        It may surprise you, but I am glad, Vyacheslav Olegovich! The "Oxford chest" is still a topic for dispute, however, like the events depicted on it.
    5. vladcub
      vladcub 23 January 2022 13: 34
      +4
      "Judge history by tapestries" removed from the tongue
      1. 3x3zsave
        3x3zsave 23 January 2022 18: 17
        +2
        Hello, Glory!
        Are you ready to track the history of the Second World War from the photographs of Yevgeny Khaldei, but you don’t believe the "tapestry from Bayo" ????
        1. vladcub
          vladcub 23 January 2022 18: 56
          +2
          Anton, good evening. Yes and no. There are a lot of materials on the Second World War and photographs, any, just an illustration.
          For example, I see a photo and I'm interested in it ::I can find an addition in other sources
          1. 3x3zsave
            3x3zsave 23 January 2022 19: 07
            +3
            There are also a lot of materials on the Norman invasion of England, but it’s easier to say that the “Tapestry from Bayo” is trite, an embroidered rag, a towel, in other words. So?
            1. vladcub
              vladcub 24 January 2022 07: 48
              +1
              Note that this is your definition. I prefer to regard this tapestry as additional material, and primary: chronicles, archaeological finds. I am conservative
      2. Kote Pan Kokhanka
        Kote Pan Kokhanka 23 January 2022 19: 34
        +4
        Hello namesake!
        My opinion is trite and simply outrageous. An oral tale like Homer's Iliad is good, and the found "tail from a Trojan horse" already makes one think that the Trojan wars are a true story, not a myth!
        1. vladcub
          vladcub 24 January 2022 07: 50
          +1
          So you need to look for this tail or bridle
          1. Kote Pan Kokhanka
            Kote Pan Kokhanka 24 January 2022 21: 02
            0
            Quote: vladcub
            So you need to look for this tail or bridle

            Paradoxically, sometimes it gives a positive result!!!
            1. vladcub
              vladcub 25 January 2022 08: 46
              +1
              And who will confirm the authenticity of the tail? Maybe that tail belonged to the Napoleonic army or the army of Linevich near Mukden?
  3. 3x3zsave
    3x3zsave 23 January 2022 07: 46
    +6

    I was interested in the weapons of the warrior depicted at the bottom left. It looks like a kind of kuza, but they are still 400 years old, at least ...
    1. Kote Pan Kokhanka
      Kote Pan Kokhanka 23 January 2022 08: 03
      +5
      Hello Anton!
      It looks like a kind of kuza, but they are still 400 years old, at least ...

      And in the hands of a huruskala.
      1. 3x3zsave
        3x3zsave 23 January 2022 08: 07
        +5
        Hello, Vlad!
        Considering that McBride was a very good reenactor, I would like to know about the origin of this zhlyga.
      2. Engineer
        Engineer 23 January 2022 09: 26
        +8
        Huscarls on the opposite side are running in)
        The shape of the blade somewhat resembles a combat knife (sax) from Bettersea, but here the blade is clearly impaled on the shaft, and not on the handle.
        Most likely, McBride was inspired by some drawing from continental France of the 11-12th century. But in general it is strange, before the heyday of such weapons, it seems like a decent amount of time must pass.
        1. 3x3zsave
          3x3zsave 23 January 2022 09: 47
          +6
          The Saxon has a stalk mount for the handle, but here it looks like a sleeve.
          1. Engineer
            Engineer 23 January 2022 10: 33
            +4
            It's the bushing. Didn't write in a hurry. Not sax, not fauchard, but something pole, incomprehensible)
            1. 3x3zsave
              3x3zsave 23 January 2022 10: 46
              +3
              And most importantly, too fancy for the then tactics of warfare.
              1. Engineer
                Engineer 23 January 2022 10: 50
                +4
                Why fancy?
                1. 3x3zsave
                  3x3zsave 23 January 2022 11: 01
                  +5
                  There is neither a dense infantry formation that needs to be cut through, nor a large number of cavalry to behead limbs, nor any intelligible armor capable of withstanding this prodigy. There is no reason to appear.
                  1. Engineer
                    Engineer 23 January 2022 11: 11
                    +4
                    In the sagas there are mentions of winged spears with wide tips sharpened on both sides a la horned. It was possible to cut and stab. It was used both in combat and in dismantling bonds. From memory, Kari from the Nyala saga also wielded this.
                    There is little armor, little or no cavalry, but there is a niche for such weapons (polearm and chopping).
                    The Franks, even before knightly times, also had wide spears with massive tips. "Viennese spear" from this series, it is also sharpened from the sides.
                    By the way, there is a dense infantry formation - a "wall of shields" since the era of the VPN.

                    Threat It's strange that McBride drew a shield for a warrior with a weapon that requires two hands, well, I don't really like him))
                    1. 3x3zsave
                      3x3zsave 23 January 2022 11: 34
                      +4
                      And I do not deny the fact of sharpening leaf-shaped spearheads, before the widespread use of chain mail armor, it is simply stupid not to use the effect of the cutting edge.
                      As for the "wall of shields", what is its saturation with fighters in the width and depth of the formation, in comparison, say, with the Swiss battle?
                      1. Engineer
                        Engineer 23 January 2022 11: 50
                        +6
                        I think that the artist quite possibly depicted a gag.
                        But purely theoretically, the level of armor gradually increased and Harold's combatants were entirely in chain mail. Here is a niche for something polearm and striking more accentuated than a spear with a side sharpening. There are brodexes, but the length is too small. For the safety of your carcass, something more authentic is better. The request for an ancestor of the halberd in the 11th century is, if not obvious, then plausible. Another thing is that it is always better to build on what is actually fixed. Undoubtedly, without sources of the 11th century with images of something similar, it is better not to draw anything at all that is halberd-like. Yes, and with a shield in the other hand
                        As for the "wall of shields", what is its saturation with fighters in the width and depth of the formation, in comparison, say, with the Swiss battle?

                        We don't know for sure. Presumably the front is larger, the depth is less than that of the battle
                        But the battle is a completely different ideology, a qualitatively new level, and generally too late to engage in comparative).
                      2. 3x3zsave
                        3x3zsave 23 January 2022 12: 34
                        +5
                        For the safety of your carcass, something more authentic is better.
                        Optionally, the Flemings cost godendags

                      3. Engineer
                        Engineer 23 January 2022 12: 42
                        +5
                        Not certainly in that way. Apparently, they managed with a combination of people armed with pikes and godendags. Peaks in the front row ("Oxford Chest"). This is already taking us aside.
                        I myself am no stranger to comparativeism, but all too often I see how direct analogies simply do not work.
                        I just don't know how the evolution of polearms worked in 1000-1300.
                        However, if we take 1300 and beyond (I am familiar with this period from work
                        https://www.amazon.com/Swiss-War-1300-1500-Men-At-Arms-94/dp/0850453348)
                        then you can see how the halberd of the Swiss is being replaced by a pike.
                        But this information hardly correlates with attempts to determine what is in the hands of our unlucky warrior)
                      4. 3x3zsave
                        3x3zsave 23 January 2022 12: 53
                        +4
                        Actually, I did not mean direct analogies. Throughout our discussion, I have peddled the idea that in the case of the evolution of European edged weapons, it is a consequence of the development of armor, and not vice versa.
                      5. Engineer
                        Engineer 23 January 2022 12: 56
                        +4
                        I think it's still a two-way connection.
      3. vladcub
        vladcub 23 January 2022 13: 37
        +4
        Namesake, good health, what kind of "beast": x u R u s k a l ?.
        I'm not familiar with these
    2. hohol95
      hohol95 23 January 2022 08: 59
      +5
      There wasn't enough money for the sword!
      I bought a similar "cleaver".
      1. 3x3zsave
        3x3zsave 23 January 2022 09: 27
        +5
        The fact is that all varieties of long-bladed pole weapons, piercing-chopping action, appeared much later. Or am I missing something...
        1. geologist
          geologist 23 January 2022 09: 54
          +5
          Except for something similar among the Dacians, who chopped down an entire legion of Romans in 89 AD. just such long-bladed pole spears or two-handed swords with a pole handle. Among the Dacians, they seemed to be still curved like scimitars or scythes.
          1. 3x3zsave
            3x3zsave 23 January 2022 10: 02
            +3
            Neither the falx nor the romphea are polearms.
            1. geologist
              geologist 23 January 2022 13: 44
              +4
              This is a controversial claim that is not accepted by all historians. The Varangians are known to have used rhomphea, but this too has been disputed as a mistranslation from Byzantine Greek.
              1. 3x3zsave
                3x3zsave 23 January 2022 14: 33
                +2
                Colleague, will it not make it difficult for you to give your definitions of polearms and bladed weapons?
        2. hohol95
          hohol95 23 January 2022 10: 18
          +5
          And the Thracian rhomphea?
          And in the figure, this "cleaver" is more chopping than stabbing.
          1. 3x3zsave
            3x3zsave 23 January 2022 10: 23
            +4
            The romphea has a hilt, but no shaft.
            1. Undecim
              Undecim 23 January 2022 10: 55
              +7
              If you look at this picture...



              ... it looks like some early version of Couteau de breche or fauchard.
              1. 3x3zsave
                3x3zsave 23 January 2022 11: 15
                +3
                I saw this picture repeatedly, Viktor Nikolaevich. Beheim, if I'm not mistaken. In the first case you indicated, the evolution of the body was considered, in the second - the glaives, and everything starts from a date that is one and a half centuries away from the events in question.
            2. Catfish
              Catfish 23 January 2022 11: 24
              +7
              The romphea has a hilt, but no shaft.


              "How difficult it is ... how subtle it is!" (c)
              Tolya, we have a shooter - here is a pistol, and it has a handle

              I attached a "shaft" to the handle and it turned out quite a carbine
              wink laughing
              1. vladcub
                vladcub 23 January 2022 13: 44
                +5
                Kostya, hello. In fact, the S-96 was a landmark thing.
                It was distributed all over the world. Many admired the Mauser family, and also cursed them
                1. Catfish
                  Catfish 23 January 2022 19: 23
                  +3
                  In fact, the S-96 was a landmark thing.


                  And I don't argue. However, it was not accepted into service in any army in the world. Separate formations do not count.
                  1. vladcub
                    vladcub 24 January 2022 07: 41
                    +1
                    Why do you think?
                    1. Catfish
                      Catfish 24 January 2022 15: 15
                      +1
                      But the devil knows him. request
                      Expensive, difficult to manufacture, bulky, and by that time there were already cars no worse in all respects, and the Mauser lost to them in some ways.
              2. astra wild2
                astra wild2 23 January 2022 15: 46
                +3
                Konstantin, actually then Lugerov was a butt. Then there was a hobby for the "pistol-carbine".
                1. Catfish
                  Catfish 23 January 2022 19: 46
                  +2
                  Then there was a hobby for the "pistol-carbine".

                  Vera hi , this hobby was not only "then", here are a couple of examples from different times.
                  From these rarities



                  To quite modern machines.


        3. hohol95
          hohol95 23 January 2022 12: 42
          +5
          It is difficult to understand from the drawing - this is a pole weapon or a "cleaver" with a long handle!
          1. 3x3zsave
            3x3zsave 23 January 2022 12: 58
            +3
            To be honest, Alexey, I know only one example of the development of a piercing-cutting weapon (sword) into a polearm, this is the naginata.
            1. hohol95
              hohol95 23 January 2022 13: 44
              +4
              What about the Chinese Tao (dadao)?
              There were options with a long handle. Almost a halberd.
              1. 3x3zsave
                3x3zsave 23 January 2022 14: 27
                +3
                I agree, I was just not particularly interested in Chinese melee weapons.
    3. kalibr
      23 January 2022 11: 11
      +4
      Quote: 3x3zsave
      It looks like a kind of kuza, but they are still 400 years old, at least ...

      What can I say? McBride drew... he is a classic... I already wrote about how difficult it is to select materials for drawings in Osprey. It is obvious that he had reasons for this. But what... I don't know. I do not have a description of this figure with links to sources.
      1. 3x3zsave
        3x3zsave 23 January 2022 11: 19
        +5
        McBride drew... he is a classic... I already wrote about how difficult it is to select materials for drawings in Osprey.
        That is why I got interested.
        1. kalibr
          23 January 2022 12: 29
          +4
          Quote: 3x3zsave
          That is why I got interested.

          I understand Anton. But I can't say anything. I only remember how they demanded a pattern (!) On the fabric for a drawing and a photo of the ends of the onion horns (!!!), and how I went to Kazan for all this ...
        2. Undecim
          Undecim 23 January 2022 13: 07
          +9
          I shoveled through the literature on medieval polearms and realized that, in relation to the beginning of the XNUMXth century, it was possible to draw very arbitrarily, since it is impossible to confirm or refute the artist’s “idea” with documents. There are no archaeological or pictorial sources of that time in relation to the issue. As one book on the subject says: The current literature is replete with apologies for the ambiguity in this matter, and this is definitely understandable; as there is not a clear-cut
          illustration associated with the terms mentioned, and the final “facts” are a matter of conjecture."
          1. 3x3zsave
            3x3zsave 23 January 2022 13: 38
            +4
            By the way, I noticed another oddity in this illustration. The horseman, stretching his hand towards Guillaume (the cry "Guillaume is here!" is supposed), is for some reason called Bishop Odo.
            1. Undecim
              Undecim 23 January 2022 14: 50
              +5
              cry "Guillaume is here!" supposed

              Or maybe not expected. Maybe the artist arranged the illustration in such a way as to show the "main characters" in detail.
              1. 3x3zsave
                3x3zsave 23 January 2022 16: 37
                +3
                An artist can arrange as he likes, but Eustache of Boulogne is the author of the historical cry.
                1. Undecim
                  Undecim 23 January 2022 17: 00
                  +4
                  Maybe the gesture means something else. The artist sees it this way.
                  1. 3x3zsave
                    3x3zsave 23 January 2022 17: 06
                    +3
                    By the way, the waving character has a six-feather in his hand and I thought: did they already exist in the middle of the XNUMXth century?
                    1. Undecim
                      Undecim 23 January 2022 17: 47
                      +6
                      Judging by the fact that they are even thrown on the tapestry, they existed.
                      1. 3x3zsave
                        3x3zsave 23 January 2022 18: 12
                        +3
                        Yes. I read a little about the history of impact-crushing weapons.
  4. Hantengri
    Hantengri 23 January 2022 10: 52
    +5

    Vyacheslav Olegovich, such an impression that in your reconstruction, the "wall of shields" is not a skjalborg familiar to Scandinavia and England,
    but some kind of temporary fortification, such as a wagenburg, or a fence requisitioned in a neighboring village. Painfully, regardless of her, Harold's infantry walks around your field.
    1. kalibr
      23 January 2022 11: 15
      +3
      A wall of shields, of course, but something else was there, like wattle or stakes. I don't remember now. I've been reading "Hidden history..." for a long time.
      1. Hantengri
        Hantengri 23 January 2022 12: 13
        +7
        So, in your diagrams, this "wattle fence", together with stakes, is stubbornly called a wall of shields. And in the captions under them, too:
        Second phase: The Norman archers have shot all their arrows and retreated to the camp to resupply them. The Norman infantry is attacking the "wall of shields", but it is successfully reflected
        Assuming that the icons on the diagram ХХХХХХХ an impromptu "fence" is indicated, made of wattle and sticks, it turns out that Guillaume's infantry reached the "fence", raked from the valiant archers and turned back without coming into direct contact with the wall of Harold's infantry shields. The comment on the picture says: "Norman infantry attacking the 'shield wall'"! So go now, figure it out: where is the fence, and where is the wall of shields, who attacked whom, and who drove whom away ...
        Quite "wonderful" then, in general, it turns out a reconstruction! Very articulate and unrelenting. wassat
        1. kalibr
          23 January 2022 12: 27
          +4
          Quote: HanTengri
          . And in the commentary to the picture it says: "The Norman infantry is attacking the "wall of shields""! So go now, figure it out: where is the fence, and where is the wall of shields, who attacked whom, and who drove whom away ...

          That was a long time ago...
          1. Hantengri
            Hantengri 23 January 2022 12: 33
            +5
            Quote: kalibr
            That was a long time ago...

            "History became a legend. The legend turned into a farce. And, then, they made up all sorts of jokes." (With)
          2. vladcub
            vladcub 23 January 2022 14: 01
            +3
            "it was a long time ago" and as they say: "not true".
            A joke.
            V.O., could not resist to say in rhyme.
            PS. I’m not a young lady, so I’ll leave it to our ladies to fall in love with you, but I think that you are a classic historian, which means you won’t invent non-existent battles
        2. astra wild2
          astra wild2 23 January 2022 13: 06
          +1
          Khan, you are changing Vyacheslav Olegovich in vain. He writes what he himself read
          1. vladcub
            vladcub 23 January 2022 13: 51
            +4
            Astra, I'm V. Oh, I don't scold, but I ask. Khan answers
            1. astra wild2
              astra wild2 23 January 2022 14: 13
              +2
              I did not know that you are Khan's colleagues and are secretaries. Kidding
  5. astra wild2
    astra wild2 23 January 2022 13: 01
    +3
    Vyacheslav Olegovich, colleagues, hello. We have an abyss of snow and if you want, take it for free. Just wake up yourself to load, otherwise I yesterday "played enough" with a shovel that the phone fell out of it. But 800 grams of pork + earned money
    1. hohol95
      hohol95 23 January 2022 19: 12
      +3
      We can load our snow for you...
      hi
    2. kalibr
      23 January 2022 19: 56
      +4
      My whole dacha fell asleep. I had to dig out the greenhouses so that the snow would not push through.


      We are going along a difficult road, not a straight one ...

      Everything is like under communism - mental labor, then physical and vice versa!

      The result - everything is the head!
  6. Konnick
    Konnick 23 January 2022 13: 32
    +3
    Interestingly, did Yuri Dolgoruky know something about the heroic death in battle of his grandfather Harold?

    Maybe his mother told him about his grandfather as a child.
    1. Trilobite Master
      Trilobite Master 23 January 2022 16: 14
      +4
      It is believed that Guide was not Yuri's mother.
      The date of Guida's death (March 10) is indicated in the European chronicles, however, without indicating the year.
      In Russian chronicles, the date of death of "Yuri's mother" is noted without indicating the name - May 7, 1107 in Smolensk. Apparently they were two different women. Guide, most likely died back in the 1190s, presumably during a pilgrimage to Jerusalem, after which Monomakh remarried and Yuri descended from this marriage.
      1. 3x3zsave
        3x3zsave 23 January 2022 16: 30
        +2
        And I wondered why a colleague mentioned Yuri, and not Mstislav, in his case, the relationship with the Godwinsons is undeniable.
        1. Konnick
          Konnick 23 January 2022 16: 42
          +2
          I wondered why a colleague mentioned Yuri, and not Mstislav, in his case, the relationship with the Godwinsons is undeniable.

          Well, younger children are more beloved repeat
          1. 3x3zsave
            3x3zsave 23 January 2022 16: 52
            +4
            I do not argue, I myself am not without sin.
        2. Trilobite Master
          Trilobite Master 23 January 2022 17: 46
          +5
          Yes, because I only heard about Yuri. For in school textbooks about Yuri there is a whole paragraph, and if Mstislav is mentioned, then once and briefly. And few of us went deeper into the study of history beyond school textbooks.
          Moreover, Mstislav is not politically correct, not Russian. He flirted with Europe, bore a Scandinavian name, married a Swede, his daughter was Ingeborg and Malfrid ... Well, and most importantly: it was during his time that the bastard Nestor wrote PVL, about the calling of the Varangians, but about all sorts of other things ...
          And his offspring are all somehow ... incomprehensible. Everything was hobnobbing with the Poles, the Hungarians, Daniil Galitsky begged for the crown from the Pope ...
          Why do we need this?
          1. 3x3zsave
            3x3zsave 23 January 2022 17: 54
            +6
            In general: a liberalist, a gay European, an enemy of the communists and just a bad person (radish)?
            1. Trilobite Master
              Trilobite Master 23 January 2022 19: 45
              +5
              For me, one of the most capable rulers of the High Middle Ages, in principle, who proved himself both as a politician and as a military leader. Unlike the untalented brother Yuri, who, by the way, outright lost his fight for Kiev to the son of Mstislav, his nephew Izyaslav, and objectively did not mark himself in history, except for the fact that he became the founder of the Suzdal branch of Rurikovich.
              1. 3x3zsave
                3x3zsave 23 January 2022 19: 48
                +3
                Do I deny?
                1. Trilobite Master
                  Trilobite Master 23 January 2022 19: 53
                  +4
                  And I don’t argue.
                  Here, by the way, is another topic for research - the company of Izyaslav Mstislavich against Yuri in ... damn it, I forgot what year. Battle on Ruti, in short.
            2. motorized rifle
              motorized rifle 23 January 2022 21: 50
              +1
              In general: a liberalist, a gay European, an enemy of the communists and just a bad person (radish)?


              They forgot the "adepts of Rozhdestvensky" !!!
          2. CHEREDA73
            CHEREDA73 23 January 2022 21: 11
            +3
            And his offspring are all somehow ... incomprehensible. Everything with the Poles, the Hungarians hobnobbed

            Hello, Michael.
            Where land holdings were, they hobnobbed with those neighbors. In general, the period after the death of Mstislav Vladimirovich and the disassembly that began is very interesting. I read Sergei Mikhailovich Solovyov and Karamzin.
      2. Konnick
        Konnick 23 January 2022 16: 37
        +2
        It is believed that Guide was not Yuri's mother.

        And there is an opinion that there was
        1. Trilobite Master
          Trilobite Master 23 January 2022 17: 30
          +5
          How then to explain the difference in the dates of death in our annals and the Annals of Cologne?
          And, by the way, Guida's favorite son was, of course, the eldest, Mstislav-Harald.
          1. 3x3zsave
            3x3zsave 23 January 2022 18: 00
            +7
            Yes, they hacked her to death on the streets of Jerusalem, during the capture of it! At that moment, no one asked about faith, as in Beziers, a hundred years later. Yes, and the timing is the same.
            1. Trilobite Master
              Trilobite Master 23 January 2022 19: 40
              +5
              It is necessary to check when she went there ... I write from memory, I do not remember exactly all the nuances.
              1. 3x3zsave
                3x3zsave 23 January 2022 20: 41
                +4
                What is there to check?
                She left on a pilgrimage in the mid-nineties, reached Jerusalem for a year and a half, and for another year she knelt before the shrines, prospering in prayers... , from mortal existence.
      3. CHEREDA73
        CHEREDA73 23 January 2022 23: 22
        +3
        Guide, most likely died in the 1190s, presumably during a pilgrimage to Jerusalem,

        Michael, it seems that fast typing let you down here. You must have meant "in the 1090s" hi
  7. Shooter_22
    Shooter_22 23 January 2022 15: 23
    +3
    The English infantry in the battle was well equipped: chain mail, helmets and tower shields. This equipment protected well from arrows. The English infantry was lined up on the hill. King Harold was behind the infantry, in the center of the army, with some of his entourage. King Harold and his attendants were on horseback. Harold's squad was divided into two parts (about 150 horsemen each) and was located on the flanks behind the infantry. The squad was ready to cover the flanks of the infantry if it went on the attack. The British had fewer archers than the French. The British did not create defensive structures, as they had strong infantry, forming a wall of tower shields.
    The battle began with the attack of numerous French archers. But she did not make a significant impact. Then the French infantry went on the attack. The French cavalry was located on the flanks, behind the infantry. During the battle between the English and French infantry, the news of the death of the Duke of Normandy spread. The French began to retreat, the British - to push. The Duke of Normandy shifts his helmet, the French realize that their commander is alive. The retreat of the French stops, the stubborn battle of infantry with infantry continues.
    And here the number of French archers develops into quality. One of the archers strikes King Harold in the eye and kills him. Harold was on horseback and towered over the foot soldiers leading the fight. The English, left without a king, take to flight. The French cavalry pursue the fleeing English.
    Good protective equipment in France subsequently led to the disappearance of archers. And then, in the French army, the tower shields, which turned out to be unnecessary, also disappeared. Thanks to this, the English archers in the Hundred Years' War will be able to defeat the French army. Without tower shields, the French were vulnerable to English arrows. Covered with tower shields, heavy French infantry could reach the English archers and easily cut them down.
    1. Shooter_22
      Shooter_22 23 January 2022 19: 59
      +1
      Why is there no British cavalry in the picture? To show that the reason for the victory of the French was not an accident in the form of an archer's arrow, but a pattern: the best equipment of French soldiers. Allegedly, the French are so smart, they are on horseback, and the British are stupid, they fought only on foot, even their narrow-minded king.
      How did the battle turn out if not for the fatal shot from the bow? Objectively, the position of the British army was stronger. The chances of victory were higher for the British army.
      1. Konnick
        Konnick 23 January 2022 20: 35
        +1
        Why is there no British cavalry in the picture?

        I have already made my guess. Three weeks earlier, the British had won a Pyrrhic victory at the Battle of Haadrade Vikings at Stamford Bridge. There, thanks to the cavalry, the Norwegian army was defeated. There, the British had a predominantly cavalry army, and it looks like they lost horses there, and there was no time to recruit new ones.
        1. Shooter_22
          Shooter_22 24 January 2022 04: 20
          +1
          Let's say the British suffered heavy losses in horses in the battle with the Vikings. Do you really believe that there was no horse for the English king? Did the English king fight the French on foot? Of course, I don't believe it at all. In addition, the French arrow was able to hit the king of England due to the fact that he was sitting on a horse and towering over the foot soldiers.
          The British defeated the Vikings. The English king had three weeks in which to replace his losses in men and horses. Both feudal lords and townspeople willingly went to the winner. The English king had the resources of the entire kingdom at his disposal. There were stables for the king and the feudal lords.
  8. CHEREDA73
    CHEREDA73 23 January 2022 21: 16
    +6
    I thoroughly enjoyed reading the article and the comments. I especially carefully read the discussion about the evolution of weapons. Informative. Thanks to the participants hi
    Special thanks to Vyacheslav Olegovich!
  9. Boris Borisovich Skrynnik
    Boris Borisovich Skrynnik 24 January 2022 06: 42
    +1
    Hello everybody . Dear Vyacheslav Olegovich, thank you for your great work on excursions through history, which is worthy of respect. Excuse me, but you still have one cycle - about cats! You started it on 16.12.2020/XNUMX/XNUMX. and it seems that it is not completed - slightly. I myself am a "sick" cat lover. I live with four cats. With great respect to you BBS. PS The article was called "What can knowledge of ... cats give people?" .