Pakistan terminates contract for Turkish T129 ATAK helicopters due to engine problems

Pakistan has officially canceled the $ 1,5 billion contract for the supply of 30 helicopters because the Turks were unable to solve the problem with the engines. The LHTEC T 800 turboshafts installed on the Turkish T129 ATAKs are joint Anglo-American production, but not Turkish.

Permission for their further delivery to Pakistan has not been received, which, in general, is not surprising, since the United States had previously refused to sell them its AN-1Z. It would be naive to believe that they would allow the sale of their engines. If they had already taken money from their producers, then no one was going to give it to the Turks.

The sudden "friendship" of the Turks with the Ukrainian Motor Sich cannot change the situation.

Firstly, Zaporozhye motors are in a different "weight category". Theoretically, the "MS-500" can be boosted up to 900 liters. With. But how quickly and how well it will be possible to do this, even the manufacturer himself does not know. Boguslaev, of course, will be glad to "bring to mind" his engine for Turkish money. But what is the benefit of the Turks, even if the aircraft engine, which has been "brought to mind" for their money, is still not sold to them.

Secondly, converting a helicopter for a different engine is not an easy or fast process.

Thirdly, Kiev is under the control of all the same States that did not allow the sale of engines.

Of course, the loss of $ 1,5 billion for Turkey is not fatal. But in general, this is another blow to Erdogan's already badly tarnished reputation. He already has a bunch of problems in both foreign and domestic policy. In addition to the problems with the Kurds, the difficult situation with the supported militants in Syria, there is now also a failure in Kazakhstan. The Philippine contract is also a big question.

Pakistan has little choice. Either China or Russia. Only these two countries have a full cycle of helicopter production and do not depend on the whims of Washington. Pakistan has quite a lot of experience in operating Mi helicopters.

Comments

[Proton]

Pakistan will not buy helicopters from us, it is very unlikely. They (the Pakistanis) have very serious economic and political ties with the PRC, so they will most likely turn to Comrade Xi.
I didn't understand a little - why did the author indicate in the article about Motor Sich and Ukraine?
With the same success, the Turks could have turned to French and German engine building.

[Orange bigg]

And Comrade Xi will turn to Russia for engines.

Russia and China have a contract for the supply of almost 100 helicopter engines for Mi and Ka helicopters in 2021-2022, the press service of the United Engine Corporation (UEC, Rostec) reported.

"The result of the certificate validation in China was a contract for the supply of almost 2021 VK-2022PS-100 engines in 2500-03," the statement said.
The press service also reported that UEC certified the VK-2500PS-03 engine in South Korea for the Mi-171A2 civilian helicopter. "The validation of the type certificate will allow the start of deliveries of units manufactured by UEC Klimov to this country," the corporation said. The VK-2500PS-03 turboshaft engine is the latest modification of the VK-2500 and can be used on Mi and Ka helicopters. The annual report of Rostec reported that the Russian Federation and China have a contract for the supply of 18 military transport helicopters Mi-171Sh, and more than 120 helicopters for various purposes have been ordered in total. "During 2019, Russian Helicopters signed contracts for the supply of the following Russian-made helicopters to China: 68 Mi-171 helicopters (including the upgraded Mi-171E); 18 Mi-171Sh (military transport) helicopters," - said in the document. It noted that China also ordered 14 Mi-171 helicopters with a VK-2500 engine and 21 Ansat helicopters. "

***

The United Engine Corporation Rostec has certified the VK-2500PS-03 engine for the Mi-171A2 civilian helicopter in South Korea. Validation of the type certificate will allow to start deliveries of units manufactured by UEC Klimov to this country.

https://diana-mihailova.livejournal.com/5800722.html

Based on the results of successful validation, the General Directorate of Civil Aviation of India issued the St. Petersburg enterprise "UEC-Klimov" of the United Engine Corporation of the State Corporation Rostec an approval of the type certificate for the model of the helicopter turboshaft engine VK-2500PS-03.

VK-2500PS-03 is the latest modification of the VK-2500 engine with improved performance characteristics. The main design difference of VK-2500PS-03 is the presence of a digital control system of the FADEC type. The overhaul and assigned resource of this engine is two times higher than that of its predecessors. VK-2500PS-03 gives helicopters fundamentally new opportunities for their operation in high-mountainous regions and areas with hot climates. The main application of the engine is its installation on a civilian Mi-171A2 helicopter.

“The design solutions implemented in the VK-2500PS-03 engine, an increase in the CR modes, the use of a modern automatic control and monitoring system allow the engine and the helicopter not only to have more advantages over the previous generation of technology, but also significantly increase the reliability and safety of operation. We plan to validate the type certificate of the VK-2500PS-03 engine in China, South Korea, Brazil, Colombia, Mexico, Peru, as well as expand the network of service centers, ”noted the director of the VK-2500 program, TV3-117 - chief designer of UEC -Klimov "Evgeny Prodanov.

https://rostec.ru/news/sertifikat-tipa-dvigatelya-vk-2500ps-03-validirovan-v-indii/

[Eug]

India seems to have chosen the Apache instead of the Mi-28 due to problems with engine surge when launching missiles. True, I don’t know with what engines the Mi-28 was offered to the dancers and if this was an excuse.

[aslan balaev]

After the events in Kazakhstan, the Indians can safely offer MI 28 with their own engines. There is progress in this direction!

[Sling of David]

But what about the widespread theory that the United States is ready to do anything to sell its military products to everyone? Something doesn't add up. The Turks were left without F-35s, packs without helicopters ... And India, in fact, is an American ally, so here they happily pressed Russia. And Pakistan and Turkey will buy Russian equipment out of hope

[Orsis338]

There, the Chinese have perked up with their Z-10

[TermNachTer]

There are many Mi helicopters flying in Pakistan, on which Zaporozhye TV-3 - 117 are also installed. If you buy Chinese counterfeit, it is better with Russian (Ukrainian) engines. Then it's better to buy the whole helicopter in the kit. China still buys Zaporizhzhya TV-3-117, although it has already started the production of illegal copies for a long time. Alas, the quality of Chinese engines is still very, very bad.

[Proton]

You are writing an article about Turkish attack helicopters that have engine problems.
It would be a stretch to call Pakistani Mi-8s (modifications) drums. Therefore, I asked myself a question - why exactly Ukraine, and, for example, not France? It's just that recently a trend has gone on in VO - to the place and not to the place to mention Ukraine.
And China has a very big advantage - good relations with Pakistan and a powerful industry capable of much. The fact that at the moment the Chinese clone is damp is undeniable. But they (the Chinese) are moving in the right direction.
Who would have thought in the 2000s that the Chinese would bring soil from the moon and build their own aircraft carriers? And today it is a fact.

[venik]

Quote: Proton

Pakistan will not buy helicopters from us, it is very unlikely. They (the Pakistanis) have very serious economic and political ties with the PRC, so they will most likely turn to Comrade Xi.

======
Is not a fact! The only Chinese analogue of the T-129 ATAK is the WZ-19, so they fly on French "Turbomecs" and have not been exported so far, by the way, like the heavier WZ-10 .....

[Rome]

China does not have attack helicopters, nor does Pakistan have a choice. Or Russia, or changes in the development strategy of army aviation.
True, there is also Ruivolk from South Africa, there is a helicopter from European spare parts.

[tralflot1832]

There are no Chinese dragon fish soup sticking out there?

[Alex777]

The year began unsuccessfully for the Sultan.
Failure after failure follows.

[Aerodrome]

Pakistan has little choice. Either China or Russia. Only these two countries have a full cycle of helicopter production and do not depend on the whims of Washington. Pakistan has quite a lot of experience in operating Mi helicopters.

yes, choose any ... anyway, all the roots are from RUSSIA!))))))

[vervolk]

who got in touch with the "mtorosichu" and their owners, he was left without pants

[Pechkin]

And the Turks are like that now.

[evgen1221]

Tyzh meme pidmanula, tyzh mene pidvyla, oh you mean brute, b .. threw on the grandmother)))

[TermNachTer]

Who is the owner of "Motor Sich" now, even the workers of the plant do not know)))

[d1975]

It is possible to sell an initial batch for a start, maybe the Indians will grow wiser, or maybe vice versa.

[gigiperfetto]

VELKAM! YOU CAN ALSO TRY!

[URAL72]

In general, everything is correct in the article, except that Russia does not sell military equipment to Pakistan, so as not to spoil relations with India. The Mi-8/17 was delivered there in a civilian modification. True, the Sino-Pakistani fighter is equipped with a Russian engine ... But it is supplied via China. So, for example, the Mi-35 can only get there through third hands. Not bad either, considering that India chose the Apache, considering our turntables not so effective. If so, why be indignant?

[Bond, James Bond]

Quote: URAL72

Russia does not sell military equipment to Pakistan

The first samples of Russian weapons were delivered to Islamabad in 1996-2004. This concerned several dozen (about 70) Mi-17 multipurpose helicopters. A major contract for the supply of RD-93 aircraft engines, which are installed on the JF-17 Thunder fighter-bombers of a joint Sino-Pakistani development, was signed in 2007. Then the military-technical cooperation with Pakistan was somewhat suspended.

https://vpk.name/news/312678_na_grani_voiny_skolko_rossiiskogo_oruzhiya_v_indii_i_pakistane.html

In 2014, Russia and Pakistan resumed military-technical cooperation.
In 2017, Moscow supplied Islamabad with four Mi-35 attack helicopters and two Mi-171 transport helicopters.

Russia will supply Pakistan with a consignment of weapons, Moscow and Islamabad have signed a number of contracts in the defense sphere. This was announced by the Chief of Staff of the Pakistani Army, General Qamar Javed Bajwa.

In January 2018, Pakistani Ambassador Mohammad Qazi Khalilullah announced that Islamabad intends to increase military-technical cooperation with Moscow.

According to the general, Russia will supply Pakistan with anti-tank systems, air defense systems and small arms. The Pakistani general did not disclose the specific names of weapons, batch sizes and delivery dates. There is also no information when the agreements were signed,

https://topwar.ru/180050-v-islamabade-zajavili-o-podpisanii-rjada-kontraktov-na-postavku-rossijskih-vooruzhenij.html

[URAL72]

In 2007 and 2010, JSC Rosoboronexport signed contracts for the supply of a total of 250 RD-93 engines to the PRC (with an option for another 400) with the right to re-export them to Pakistan. To date, according to available information, about 157 serial and prototype JF-17 aircraft of all modifications have been built, including 40 in China and 117 in Pakistan.

Content source: https://naukatehnika.com/dvigatel-rd-93ma.html
naukatehnika.com

Your source does not even know the simplest military terms, but the entire site is packed with the cheapest advertising. Trash can.

[Bond, James Bond]

Quote: URAL72

Your source does not even know the simplest military terms, but the entire site is packed with the cheapest advertising. Trash can

a link to Topvar is available. If you don't like it - look further to satisfy your discerning taste. The fact is that you have provided erroneous information. Military-technical cooperation with Pakistan was and is, but far from being as large-scale as with other countries, and not particularly advertised.
And there is nothing wrong with that.

[URAL72]

I wrote about the garbage can of the military-industrial complex, and VO also has simple reprints of the foreign press. Pakistani Defense Minister reported that negotiations are underway on the Su-35 and T-90 ... Ridiculous?

[Bond, James Bond]

Quote: URAL72

Funny

- this is your behavior when, being not in the subject, you are trying to portray some kind of dance.
Negotiations could have taken place - what's so strange about that? Many are interested in our weapons, but not always interest translates into a contract. But deliveries of Mi-17 and Mi-35 helicopters to Pakistan are facts.
And there is no reason not to trust the information about the signing of contracts for the supply of anti-tank systems, air defense systems and small arms to the Pakistani side.
https://bmpd.livejournal.com/4258981.html
this link is to a rather serious and respected source, which was not noticed in gossip.
However, if your credo is to deny the facts, then these are not my problems, but yours.

[TermNachTer]

The author of the article did not write anything about India at all. Only about Pakistan, China and Turkey.

[faiver]

Pakistan has little choice. Either China or Russia.

- What does Russia have to do with it? We do not have combat helicopters in the "light" weight category ...

[Bond, James Bond]

Quote: faiver

What has Russia to do with it? We do not have combat helicopters in the "light" weight category

and you need an easy one? Since the main potential enemy (India) is rearming on Apaches, it is more logical to have something of the same class (Mi-28, etc.)

[faiver]

Well, given the frankly horse price tag of the Turks, you can really offer ours, even Kamovs, even Milevs ...

[TermNachTer]

And if ours is "heavy", is it cheaper than their "light"? And do they have a desire to buy? Turkish "A - 129", by and large it is Augusta - Westland, is also quite heavy and also twin-engine. I am generally silent about the price, even if the Turkish assembly, you can buy two Mi-35s.

[faiver]

Well, given the frankly horse price tag of the Turks, you can really offer ours, even Kamov's, even Milev's ...

[yuriy55]

Let them buy the Mi-28ne.
Just something (judging by the contract with Bangladesh)
$ 1 ...

[TermNachTer]

For Pakistan and the Mi - 35, the price, depending on the configuration, is quite "democratic" - about 10 million, but it strongly depends on the number of ordered aircraft.

[Zaurbek]

China has a licensed Turbomeka on helicopters Z9, Z10 ... Quite in the same weight as the T129 and AH1 Z ..... They bought Mi35 and they fly several of them. There is also a moment that Pakistan wants to get equipment for free .... The Americans refused to sell them F16 and Cobra .. And they refused to buy subsidies ....

[TermNachTer]

They have been making TV - 3 - 117 without a license for a long time, alas, the quality is far behind the original. YOU - 3 - 117 - assigned resource - 6 thousand hours, VK - 2500 - 5 thousand hours, Chinese - a thousand hours, but sometimes even thousands are not nursed.

[Zaurbek]

In the drums they have a licensed Turbomeka ... They also bought and mastered from the French with Dolphin by hook or by crook ...

[Incvizitor]

Rather, they will buy from China, but at least not from the Turks.

[Bond, James Bond]

Pakistan has little choice. Either China or Russia

it is most logical to assume that the choice will be made in favor of Chinese cars - WZ-10

[Zaurbek]

There is also a Z9 ...

[evgen1221]

Replenishment in the club thrown by amers and ukrami. The Turks did not teach the Chinese people an example, they thought if they were selling UAVs and would the Ukrainians merge their engine technologies into NATO or would they build them themselves?

[Zaurbek]

The Americans compensated Pakistan for the purchase of Cobras and F16 ... now they have stopped compensating ....

[svp67]

Of course, the loss of $ 1,5 billion for Turkey is not fatal

In the current and now difficult financial situation in Turkey, the loss is not fatal, but tangible

[Bond, James Bond]

Quote: svp67

not fatal, but tangible

much more reputational losses than financial ones. Although the former always subsequently influence the latter.

[Pavel57]

If India abandons Mi-28s, they can be offered to Pakistan. The Mi-35 has already laid the path.

[rocket757]

Pakistan has little choice. Either China or Russia. Only these two countries have a full cycle of helicopter production and do not depend on the whims of Washington.

... So you have to choose those that did not please the minke whales.

[mher]

So some people have a smell of money, interests and image are more important than cash.

[Kosh]

Actually, the other day, the official representative of the Pakistani army, General Iftar, bluntly stated that negotiations were already underway on the purchase of Chinese Z-10MEs instead of the T-129.
https://www.janes.com/defence-news/news-detail/pakistan-cancels-attack-helicopter-project-with-turkey-opting-for-china

[Azimuth]

Quote: Proton

Pakistan will not buy helicopters from us, it is very unlikely. They (the Pakistanis) have very serious economic and political ties with the PRC, so they will most likely turn to Comrade Xi.
I didn't understand a little - why did the author indicate in the article about Motor Sich and Ukraine?
With the same success, the Turks could have turned to French and German engine building.

Apparently because the author got it wrong - the Turks intend to use the Ukrainian engines in the fully-fledged attack helicopter Attack 2. The current version of the Attack is still not an attack helicopter, analogous to Pachu or Mi-28.

[Azimuth]

The disease of the Turkish military-industrial complex is its "ease" from LEGO - a bunch of original national nodes, and even borrowing concepts, often successful, but still borrowed. The output is light and inexpensive analogs to Western weapons systems, which are quite attractive for many countries that previously had an alternative only to our or Chinese-made weapons.
But in terms of your own, national defense, such a military-industrial complex - LEGO will not go far. By the way, a good lesson for us, on the one hand showing the viciousness of the practice of purchasing foreign weapons and equipment under Serdyukov, on the other hand, our military-industrial complex should also not be allowed to relax and must fight to the fullest, especially for some samples, the eternal reincarnations of systems dating back to the 60s of production.

[sk3962243]

China does not use Russian engines and does not need
Ukrainian engineers at our service
The engines we use were developed in France.
We don't need Russia anymore
You still narrowly think that Russia is the Soviet Union

[no better place for]

⚡️ Hulusi Akar denied reports in Turkish media about canceling a $ 1,5 billion deal with Pakistan to export 30 Turkish T129 ATAK helicopters. The Minister of Defense said that these allegations were not true.

Hulusi Akar did not specify the actual status of the deal and the date of deliveries of the first attack helicopters to Pakistan.

@voice_of_turkey