The American press named the reason for Algeria's refusal to purchase Russian multipurpose Su-35 fighters

Algeria is a longtime operator of Soviet and Russian military equipment, including for its Air Force. However, the presence of Russian combat aircraft in the Air Force did not help in the case of the purchase of multipurpose Su-35 fighters, writes Military Watch Magazine.

The Algerian Air Force is the most efficient not only in Africa, but also in the Arab world. The Algerian army is armed with highly efficient combat aircraft of Soviet and Russian production, in particular the heavy Su-30MKA, which form the basis of the Air Force, as well as the light MiG-29 and MiG-29M. In addition, Algeria has a number of Su-24M front-line bombers and MiG-25 heavy interceptors.

For a long time, there was an opinion that Algeria would buy Russian multipurpose Su-35 fighters of the 4 ++ generation, but so far this has not happened. In addition, there is a possibility that the Algerian Air Force may completely abandon this aircraft, which has good characteristics. The reason for this was the lack of a radar with AFAR on the Su-35, the newspaper writes. According to Algerian military analysts, the performance of the Su-35's sensor suite was the main reason for not purchasing the fighter, which costs 60% more than the Su-30MKA. Algeria's demands for a new air superiority fighter included radar integration with AFAR, which was not done on the Su-35.

At the same time, Algeria has the ability to upgrade its Su-30MKA to the 4 ++ level, which includes the installation of the Irbis-E radar or a more powerful station. It will be cheaper than buying new aircraft. In addition, the Algerian Air Force does not refuse to purchase the Russian fifth generation Su-57 fighter.

There is another possibility that Algeria will turn to another supplier if Russia does not start installing new active phased array radars on its fighters soon. With a high degree of probability, China can become a new supplier of aircraft, since 2014 it has been equipping its fighters with new radars.

Comments

[OgnennyiKotik]

In this case, the question is really about the advisability of buying the Su-35 in the presence of the Su-30. And the lag in the radar station has become critical.
Algeria bought the same S-400s and they are being delivered.

[sportline]

Well, I have a guess that the Su-35 will receive AFAR with the first upgrade along with Product 30, but when will it be? In 20 years? Until then, according to the archaic canons, let the cars out? Rollbacks. There is no other way to say.

[SovAr238A]

Quote: sportline

Well, I have a guess that the Su-35 will receive AFAR with the first upgrade along with Product 30, but when will it be? In 20 years? Until then, according to the archaic canons, let the cars out? Rollbacks. There is no other way to say.

The Su-35 will be able to receive AFAR only when it can finally be built and brought to a production model.
And this has been going on for 40 years and the presence of at least one really working flight model has not yet been confirmed!

[Ratmir_Ryazan]

In this case, the question is really about the advisability of buying the Su-35 in the presence of the Su-30. And the lag in the radar station has become critical.
Algeria bought the same S-400s and they are being delivered.

The expediency is that the Su-35 is a fighter at maximum speed, while the Su-30 is a multifunctional fighter-bomber.

The Su-35 has more range and speed, simply because the Su-30 needs to accommodate a second pilot with equipment.

In addition, the Su-35 has an OVT engine, which makes it more maneuverable.

Upgrading the Su-30 to the level of the Su-35 (radar + engines) will certainly increase its capabilities, but all the same in speed, maneuverability and range, the two-seater Su-30 will be inferior to the single-seat Su-35.

And the lag in the radar station has become critical.

I don’t think it’s generally appropriate to talk about a lag, let alone a critical one. Russia is capable of creating radar stations with AFAR, but PFAR was chosen for the Su-35, I think there is a reason for this.

Well, the real reason why Algeria can abandon the Su-35 is the pressure from the United States. Threats can be not only in relation to the country as a whole, but also in relation to individual politicians - freezing of accounts, criminal prosecution, etc.

They would have launched the Su-75 series faster, this aircraft is available to many countries and meets all the requirements of the 5th generation, should sell well.

You need to work on it 24 hours and seven days a week.

You also need to stir up the RSK "MiG", it seems that everyone there is asleep in shafts. : aircraft for the aerospace forces have been made for years.

If the problem is in the means, they must be given, but then the enterprise should have total control by the state, especially in terms of the income of the management.

Otherwise, today we will lose sales markets, and tomorrow, in general, competence in the creation of fighters.

[mmaxx]

The Su-30 still has deflectable vector engines.

[Kedrovich]

Otherwise, today we will lose sales markets, and tomorrow, in general, competence in the creation of fighters.

Where will we lose our competence due to the loss of a part of sales markets? We don't need planes ourselves?

And there is AFAR. It's just that the Africans want it in the Su-35 for the price of an aircraft without a radar at all. The same crooks as the Indians.

[Diverter]

Su 30 has OVT engines. True, slightly less powerful. AFAR on the Su 35 was not purposefully delivered. And they will never put it on the Su 35. The rest of the comment is correct!)

[Liam]

Quote: OgnennyiKotik

Algeria bought the same S-400s and are being delivered.

Share a link to which thread of the official. a source confirming the conclusion of such a contract and delivery?

[OgnennyiKotik]

Quote: Liam

Share a link to which thread of the official. a source confirming the conclusion of such a contract and delivery?

They are missing. Because of the sanctions, everything was classified. There is only a photo of actual S-400 deliveries to Algeria from local "bloggers". There were also hints from our authorities that there were agreements with an unnamed country.
So this is the level of "rumors", in the photo there may be an upgraded S-300.

[Liam]

Quote: OgnennyiKotik

Because of the sanctions, everything was classified

The supply of weapons systems of this level cannot be classified

[Letun]

Quote: Liam

Quote: OgnennyiKotik

Because of the sanctions, everything was classified

The supply of weapons systems of this level cannot be classified

Google what the Vela Incident is. They tested a vigorous bomb in 1979, and still do not know who nafulyuganil, South Africa, Israel, or both. So it is possible, if not Rogozin is in charge of the project ...

[bobba94]

Sometimes, for the sake of interest, I go to Ukrainian patriotic sites ..... There svidomye often write in the comments about the creation of a miracle weapon in the Nezalezhnaya, about the sale of this weapon to dozens of countries, but few people know about this, because it is the state. a secret and it is forbidden to mention it in all Ukrainian media ..... Here, I survived .... similar comments began to appear on the MO too.

[sportline]

Hmm. None of the foreign operators of our aircraft shares the view of our Ministry of Defense towards aircraft technology. Hindus have been lost, Algeria has not been buying anything for a long time, etc.
There is no progressive view of aircraft equipment and its formats.
Therefore, we have been failing sales of equipment for several years in a row.

[PROXOR]

But because it is "expensive" in the opinion of the Ministry of Defense. Or rather, according to some generals. The lower the real purchase price, the more pullback you can get. AFAR has long been asking for all our fighters. His canvases are on the T-14 Armata and self-propelled guns Coalition. And on a fighter of conquering air supremacy, damn it is expensive.

[Lesnik21]

Are you sure that there is afar on the "Coalition"? Why is she needed there? Before you write, you need to study.

[PROXOR]

There was a documentary on the star on the ACS Coalition. There on the tower. on both sides of the gun are just boxes with AFAR canvas. After each shot, the ACS checks the accuracy of the projectile's flight and makes adjustments itself if the projectile flies with deviations. The projectile is tracked using its AFAR.

[Lesnik21]

The antennas were removed and sensors were installed for the ballistic computer.

[DMi]

Gee))) in general, everything is exactly the opposite, the more expensive the equipment and the greater the amount in the contract, the higher and fatter the rollback) so from the point of view of kickbacks expensive toys are much more interesting.

[Orange bigg]

For a long time, there was an opinion that Algeria would buy Russian multirole Su-35 fighters of the 4 ++ generation, but so far this has not happened. In addition, there is a possibility that the Algerian Air Force may completely abandon this aircraft, which has good characteristics. The reason for this was the lack of a radar with AFAR on the Su-35, the newspaper writes. According to Algerian military analysts, the performance of the Su-35's sensor suite was the main reason for not purchasing the fighter, which costs 60% more than the Su-30MKA. Algeria's demands for a new air superiority fighter included radar integration with AFAR, which was not done on the Su-35.

I also do not share the view of our Ministry of Defense towards aircraft technology. Everyone knows that in the world there is a huge demand for light single-engine fighters with AFAR. Our Ministry of Defense stubbornly does not want to adopt the light MiG-35S with AFAR, the Sukhoi Design Bureau had to proactively develop a light single-engine Su-75 Checkmate. dominates in the minds of the heads of the Ministry of Defense about fighters that for some reason there should be two-engine heavy vehicles, and even without AFAR. But such fighters are expensive and are not in demand on the market. You will not sell the Su-35 anywhere. 35S with AFAR and, in the future, Su-75 with AFAR are quite competitive fighters on the market, the main thing is to adopt them ourselves, because if we don’t take them into service, customers will doubt their choice. to sell them for export. Since the sales of the Su-35, Su-30SM, Su-34 are unlikely, their opportunities for many potential buyers are excessive, they are expensive and at the same timewithout AFAR. That is, offering them for export is a dead end, as well as purchasing them for the RF Aerospace Forces. The bet must be made on the Su-57M, Su-75, MiG-35S / MiG-35D, Su-34M (it is in the realities of Russia This aircraft is relevant as a striker) Otherwise, we buy seemingly modern fighters, like the same Su-30SM, and then modernize them a hundred times, not to immediately buy really promising fighters with AFAR.

[PPD]

This is where the Mig is easy?
They were created with Su one by one TTZ. It turned out, what happened. As the USSR collapsed, almost no one bought it.
Conclusions?

[Orange bigg]

This is where the Mig is easy?

In the same location as the F-16 and F-35 light fighters.

They were created with Su one by one TTZ.

The Su-27 was created as opposed to the heavy F-15, and the MiG-29 as opposed to the light one with the F-16.

.As the USSR collapsed, almost no one bought it.

Have you heard about the purchase of the MiG-29K / MiG-29KUB by India or the recent deliveries of the MiG-29M to Egypt? Ukraine has sold almost all of its Soviet MiG-29s.

Conclusions?

The conclusions are simple. Build up your knowledge of the topic.

[PPD]

Conclusions are incorrect - sit down, - 2.
Empty weight f 16 - 6470, mirage 2000 - 7500. Flash 10+.
Yeah, almost the same .. at f 18a and with weight 10 +. Yeah, easy ...
These tales are about counterbalancing the poor. Strongly before, he was considered a front-line and not an easy one.
Of course, you missed the words about a single TTZ.
No wonder, these stories began to be told a long time ago. And the military did not want to take a moment from the very beginning.
And no wonder. Airplanes that do not reach the range of 1200 km still look.
Remembering the relocation scandal. Etc.
You just don't seem to understand what the K index is.
And how the Indians are happy with it.
Continue a lot for a long time - makes sense?
To do your education?
Self-deception is a very dangerous thing.

[HefeDMB69]

MO has nothing to do with it. Our industry is incapable of replicating AFAR, avionics, etc. Polymers are pro ... ny.

[Orange bigg]

So we need to develop this industry. And for this we need orders for the serial production of fighters with AFAR. If there is a demand, then there will be supply. But for whom should these AFARs be made? Therefore, there is no AFAR production. Here is a double-edged sword.

[FRoman1984]

Yes, no Zhuk-A on the MiG-35, no. He goes for the videoconferencing with Zhuk-R. Therefore, the Ministry of Defense does not take it. For nafig it is needed with outdated avionics. Therefore, they missed the tender in India, despite the fact that it is much cheaper than Rafale.
This Su-75 has a murky history. Again grandmother down the drain and theft. No engine, no radar. They will do it for decades. It's just a utopia.
The only chance is to give up all hands, brains, funds and bring the Su-57. To bring Belka, and the engines, which have been in development and testing for more than 15 years, to bring. This is the only way not to be left with an outdated vehicle fleet by 2030.

[Diverter]

Mig 35 is not purchased because it is not needed. I believe that in the next GPV, the main emphasis will be on the Su 57, S 70, the modernization of what is. Perhaps the Su 75 will be added, presumably adopted for better sales.
The MiG 35 is a good car, but it was needed 20 years ago. No literate person invests in the outdated. It is necessary to use what is and at the same time to build the advanced.

[K150]

Is there anything other than words? There is no official information, the source is some site with "military analysts". Is there a link to any press release or statement by the Algerian military? There is not. VO again feeds unconfirmed bullshit.

[mmaxx]

So the success of the Su-30 is precisely the rejection of the requirements of the Air Force. People just made the plane the way they saw a modern plane. And the Air Force wasn’t there.

[mark1]

At the same time, Algeria has the ability to upgrade its Su-30MKA to the 4 ++ level, which includes the installation of the Irbis-E radar or a more powerful station. It will be cheaper than buying new aircraft.

This is partly similar to the truth - the rest is more speculation.

[TatarinSSSR]

Instead of presenting Ali's drones as their new products, it would be better to start developing and installing modern radars on fighters.

[Flooding]

Quote: TatarinSSSR

Instead of passing off drones with Ali as their new products

which ones?
Russian army uses UAVs purchased on Ali?

[TatarinSSSR]

Read on VO a recent article https://topwar.ru/190614-voennye-bpla-s-alijekspressa.html

[Flooding]

Interestingly, I missed it.
No further exhibition stands have gone, and thanks for that.

[FRoman1984]

There is no one to design, refine, build. All tick-tokers became bloggers. Who cares who needs it for 50-60 tr at best somewhere in the world in the Far East to collect fighters. Or in Rybinsk with engines to suffer for the same money.
Here they recently threw off the information that KNAAZ required ... everything. Engineers, assemblers, welders. Everything. Vacancies sea. Nobody wants to go to Komsomolsk-on-Amur to collect Su-57 for 50-60 tr? And somehow to feed the family, raise children, preferably 3, because with the demography of the seams.
That is why all the work is lagging behind. This is why the engine on the Su-57 has now been shifted to 2027.

[yuriy55]

There is another possibility that Algeria will turn to another supplier if Russia does not start installing on its fighters soon new radars with active phased array.

Yes ... They don't want b / w tube TVs ... It's a matter of principle: it's time to prove that Russian electronics can compete with Western ones, at least in the military segment or from Russian technology, not only regular customers will turn up their noses .. ...

[sustav75]

Everyone is afraid of US sanctions! Even the low price for equipment does not save the day.

[Ratmir_Ryazan]

Yes ... They don't want b / w tube TVs ...

Don't talk nonsense !!!

The emitter with a peak power of 20 kW as part of the PPAR makes the Irbis the most powerful radar control system in the world.

The Irbis has a target detection range with an RCS of 1 m² at oncoming angles of 270 km, and the American AN / APG-77 radar with an AFAR from the Raptor AN / APG-1 has a target detection range with RCS = 2 m² of 201-241 km.

Yes, AFAR has an advantage in the number of simultaneously tracked and fired targets. The same AN ​​/ APG-77 has 100 escorts and 20 fired ones, the Irbis has 30 escorts and 8 fired ones, but is this really relevant for a fighter that needs to launch a couple of missiles at the target ?! In my opinion, 8 simultaneously fired targets are quite enough.

The same radar Beetle with AFAR can also accompany 30 targets and fire 8, while its detection range is less than that of the Irbis, but here the reason is probably that a radar of the same size as in the Su-35 and the power of it is less, the Belka radar has more than 60 detectable targets, 16 fired at.

[yuriy55]

Quote: Ratmir_Ryazan

Don't talk nonsense !!!

Why carry it, it runs by itself ... How many planes are there in the RF Air Force? Take a look and count ...
I believe and am proud that:

 Show / Hide text

The radiator with a peak power of 20 kW as part of the PFAR makes the Irbis the most powerful radar control system in the world [6].

Advantages of the Irbis radar: large PAA gain, minimal losses in paths, digital signal processing with accumulation, as well as a powerful 5 kW amplifier. A two-stage hydraulic drive allows you to change the vertical polarization to horizontal, to improve the visibility of surface targets and counteract active enemy interference. Increased viewing angle 2 times - 120 degrees versus 60 for AFAR, within a scan of 60 degrees, the Irbis radar has no potential drop, antenna rotation avoids disruption of the input signal coherence [5]

The assigned resource is not less than 6000 hours, 30 years.
MTBF and service life - 1500 hours, 12 years.
Average repair time is no more than 30 minutes. [2]
The radar provides target detection in all weather conditions in the presence of natural and organized interference.

Only since 2012 have they been created:

Units produced more than 112

One per month ... For your reference:
The Russian army is armed with the second largest fleet of military aviation equipment in the world: 4 units of equipment make up 8% of the world air force. The directory notes that the Russian air fleet has decreased by 20 units, but this did not prevent it from retaining its second place in the global ranking.

[Ratmir_Ryazan]

How many planes are there in the RF Air Force? Take a look and count ...
I believe and am proud that:

Russia has about 800 fighters in total, so what?

How many fighters did Vietnam have and how many did the United States have during the same period? The difference is hundreds of times, only this advantage, both in quantity and in the quality of fighters, did not help the United States to win that war. Because the rate of Vietanam (like Russia today) in the air defense was on the air defense system, and fighters are an addition to them and an operational reserve in case of strengthening of a certain direction.

Russia does not have how many resources, like the United States, to spend 720 billion dollars a year on the army, so we cannot compete with them in the number of fighters, but at the same time we are able to ensure our security at much lower costs.

[Momento]

Afar and Israel are also produced by Italy. they don't have 720 billion.

[Ratmir_Ryazan]

Afar and Israel are also produced by Italy. they don't have 720 billion.

What fighters do Israel and Italy produce? And that they have the same number of aircraft as the United States?

Israel so generally receives 3,8 billion dollars from the United States for the purchase of weapons and previously enjoyed constant support from the United States and other Western countries.

Russia has a radar station with AFAR and is installing them on the new Su-57 and MiG-35.

[Momento]

however, Israel is offering Indians an upgrade to the Su-30MKI with afar and its own avionics. and the Italians generally produce a lot of things, including for F35. not to mention training aircraft and transport workers.
Russia has AFAR which is put on non-existent aircraft. but not for existing AFAR.

[Ratmir_Ryazan]

however, Israel is offering Indians an upgrade to the Su-30MKI with afar and its own avionics. and the Italians generally produce a lot of things, including for F35. not to mention training aircraft and transport workers.

How many fighters did Italy and Israel make? Not a part to it and not a separate radar, but a completely fighter?

NO ONE!!!

And Russia already has both the Su-57 and the MiG-35 in the army and they are with AFAR.

[FRoman1984]

One Su-57 with Belka. And zero !!!! MiG-35 with AFAR! Yeah, relics !!! There is no working, serial radar Zhuk-A, there is only a prototype, which was never put into production

[Ratmir_Ryazan]

The Su-57 is a serial fighter and a series of 76 aircraft is already being produced, and all of them will be equipped with radar with AFAR.

Of course, there are more problems with the MiG-35, this is due to many reasons, but the fact is that the aircraft has already been launched into series, albeit a small one, and it has not been denied by anyone or anything that it does not have a radar station with AFAR.

The Zhuk-A radar station is developing, its modernized (and not just export) version of the Zhuk-AE went into production in 2010.

The Fazotron-NIIR Corporation has started serial production of the Zhuk-AE radar with an active phased antenna array intended for installation on the export version of the MiG-35 multifunctional fighter. In the future, these radars are supposed to be installed on the MiG-29K / KUB and MiG-29SMT launched into production. In the coming year, the corporation plans to produce 10 Zhuk-AE airborne radars.

So, I think that AFAR is on the MiG-35.

[Third district]

I wonder how many fighters out of these 800 are now "on the move."

[SovAr238A]

Quote: Ratmir_Ryazan

Yes ... They don't want b / w tube TVs ...

Don't talk nonsense !!!

The emitter with a peak power of 20 kW as part of the PPAR makes the Irbis the most powerful radar control system in the world.

The Irbis has a target detection range with an RCS of 1 m² at oncoming angles of 270 km, and the American AN / APG-77 radar with an AFAR from the Raptor AN / APG-1 has a target detection range with RCS = 2 m² of 201-241 km.

Yes, AFAR has an advantage in the number of simultaneously tracked and fired targets. The same AN ​​/ APG-77 has 100 escorts and 20 fired ones, the Irbis has 30 escorts and 8 fired ones, but is this really relevant for a fighter that needs to launch a couple of missiles at the target ?! In my opinion, 8 simultaneously fired targets are quite enough.

The same radar Beetle with AFAR can also accompany 30 targets and fire 8, while its detection range is less than that of the Irbis, but here the reason is probably that a radar of the same size as in the Su-35 and the power of it is less, the Belka radar has more than 60 detectable targets, 16 fired at.

We have been reading everything you wrote about for 15 years, but there have not been any living samples ...
At the stands there are only layouts ...
15 years and silence ...

[Ratmir_Ryazan]

We have been reading everything you wrote about for 15 years, but there have not been any living samples ...

What is not? Su-35, MiG-35 and Su-57 are mass-produced and supplied to the troops.

[SovAr238A]

Quote: Ratmir_Ryazan

We have been reading everything you wrote about for 15 years, but there have not been any living samples ...

What is not? Su-35, MiG-35 and Su-57 are mass-produced and supplied to the troops.

With radar Beetle ???
Squirrel?

[Ratmir_Ryazan]

Do you think they put the Irbis into the Su-57?

[Momento]

almost certainly a snow leopard in the first stage.
but we certainly know that AFAR will go to the new su-57. in general, the delay from the su-57, as I understand it, is due to the engine and the radar. if the engine is clear - the bar has been raised ... but it is clear that there is an engine and we need to work on its resource - in my opinion, the picture is optimistic.
then the radar is generally dark. at least somewhere lit up ...
But the enemy is already at a new stage - target designation is transmitted not only from one aircraft to another, but also directly to the weapon of another aircraft.

[K150]

Quote: yuriy55

There is another possibility that Algeria will turn to another supplier if Russia does not start installing on its fighters soon new radars with active phased array.

Yes ... They don't want b / w tube TVs ... It's a matter of principle: it's time to prove that Russian electronics can compete with Western ones, at least in the military segment or from Russian technology, not only regular customers will turn up their noses .. ...

And what, there is official information that Algeria turns up its nose? Or, as always, believe the bullshit from the no-name media?

[Pulkovo1942]

It's time to take up your mind

Data source: SIRI Arms Transfers Database, etc.
Link: https://crsreports.congress.gov/product/pdf/R/R46937

[Zaurbek]

If there is a Su30cm2 project, it is better to wait for the overhaul and upgrade to the level of Su30cm 2 and .., in the presence of French sighting containers, get a universal heavy machine and, namely, to replace the outgoing Su24 ......... This process will take some time and there will already be 5th generation ready-made solutions on the market .... From which you can choose: European, Turkish, Korean and Russian

[Flooding]

The availability of the Su-30MKA, its possibility to be upgraded with the same AL-41 engines and Irbis-E nose mounted radar as the Su-35, and expectations that Algeria would purchase the more advanced Su-57 with stealth capabilities in the mid-2020s, are all thought to be factors which led Algeria to overlook the Su-35.

more details: https://militarywatchmagazine.com/article/russia-struggling-aesa-radar-export

"and expectations that Algeria will acquire a more advanced Su-57 with stealth capabilities in the mid-2020s"

here is another good reason not to buy the Su-35
Algeria's probable purchase of the Su-57 began more than a year ago

[Eug]

Can't you adapt the squirrel to the Su-35S? First for videoconferencing, then for export?

[kytx]

Everything again rests against a normal afar :(

[K150]

Afar has nothing to do with it in the first place. Secondly, this newspaper says that Algeria can buy a su-57, because he's more advanced.

[Butchcassidy]

The Algerian Air Force is the most efficient not only in Africa, but also in the Arab world.

I thought so too, until I looked at the composition of the Moroccan Air Force.

[Heel]

The Algerian Air Force is the most combat-ready not only in Africa, but also in the Arab world.

after such a statement, it is simply impossible to take seriously the rest of the author's fortune-telling on the coffee grounds

[sen]

"Generals are always preparing for the last war" - Winston Churchill.
It turns out that Russia needs two production facilities: one worse - for oneself, the second, according to world standards - for export.
In Europe, complex weapons are usually created together by several states. China and Russia signed a contract to build a joint heavy helicopter.
https://tass.ru/armiya-i-opk/12861761
Maybe this cooperation should be developed more widely.

[Momento]

tried to buy marine engines from the Chinese ... it seems like a copy of MTU, but it breaks often. there is a possibility that the Chinese afar will work like these engines.
communist philosophy, on the other hand, presses on plan and quantity instead of quality ...
the main problem with cooperation is that the Chinese will gain much more.

[Charik]

and what did you want from the director of the construction company and grandfather "Write-Read"

[Jacket in stock]

Su35 is just right to modernize, the machine is in its second decade,
And AFAR is a technological level.
Apparently not our level, since we can't do it. Or the price tag is such that customers can't stand it, which is understandable, piece production is always very expensive.

[DominickS]

The level may be ours, but everything rests on the production of PPMs, which we make almost piecemeal, which is long and expensive. The lag in the electronics industry, alas, is paying off.

[EvilLion]

Do you have anything to do with these industries? Do you even work as a security guard at the plant?

[starshina]

It is interesting to look at the swollen faces of the officials of Rosoboronexport --- who grinningly said that the US sanctions are not a hindrance to them !!! The darlings were jumping around --- and bragging about huge multi-billion dollar orders for decades in advance !!! Well, where are your orders in complete ass now ??? Meanwhile, Russia has slipped from second place in arms sales to fourth !!! Loafers with huge salaries --- it is necessary to work, gentlemen, and not to clap your ears !!!

[K150]

Instead of demagoguery, you better turn on your head. There are no official statements about the refusal of the Su-35, this is a media nounname statement. It also says that Algeria can buy a su-35 instead of a su-57. So, not only are you a stupid demagogue, putting pressure on emotions, but also like a sucker that you were fed here, some were silent, and some were submitted as if it was already true.

[Shahno]

I wonder if F 35 were offered .... there would be money

[Klingon]

I do not understand either the logic of the Ministry of Defense and Rosoboronexport or their combined, or the logic of the merger of Sukhoi with the MiG (where the Sukhovites have an undoubted lobby in the Ministry of Defense and Co.), and now the competition between design bureaus is completely killed .. Are the optimizers shitty and where did they study? Do you want to sell? So you need to listen to potential buyers, mature into the root and that now, as they say, "in trend" and not bend the shafts and beat the cast-iron jug on the eternal gate

[Shahno]

Yes you are right. You have to be able to sell. Not to criticize Lockheed Martin, but to show that you are better than a competitor ... for example, in terms of selling a high-tech product.
Again, they will acquire their own aircraft for anyone, there would be an order from above, but for export, this is already an indicator.

[storm]

At the same time, Algeria has the ability to upgrade its Su-30MKA to the 4 ++ level, which includes the installation of the Irbis-E radar or a more powerful station. It will be cheaper than buying new aircraft. In addition, the Algerian Air Force does not refuse to purchase the Russian fifth generation Su-57 fighter.

Quite a reasonable decision of Algeria, indeed the Su-35 did not even come close to the sales volumes of the Su-30 MKI, MKK, MKA .....
Perhaps the Russian Aerospace Forces should have focused on the mass purchase of the Su-30SM and its modernization to the SU-30SM2.
By purchasing 2011 units / year from 2021 to 36, the Russian Aerospace Forces would receive 15 regiments (360 units) of the same type of Su-30SM / SM2
From the 22nd year, switch to the annual purchase of 12-18 units of the Su-57.

Naval aviation, ordering a squadron of SU-30SM per year, would also arm itself with 10 regiments of modern multipurpose vehicles in 5 years.
But then politics intervened, the Ministry of Defense began to save the failed commercial project of the Su-35 and ordered 48 + 50 units. Su-35S by reducing purchases of SU-30SM.
History does not like the subjunctive mood, but what would be better:
360 dmg. Su-30SM / SM2 + 120 Su-30SM in naval aviation
or available now:
120 units Su-30SM +100 units. Su-35S + 21 units in naval aviation ???

[Lesnik21]

And that deliveries of the SU-57 have begun, or how did they deliver one and remained?

[EvilLion]

There was no news, I can write many realistic reasons: like a disruption in supplies by a subcontractor (first of all, a radar), a serious failure of some equipment at the plant, factory test pilots got sick, and all flight technical personnel were quarantined, and the planes were in a tarp, they decided to make a change in the design, and already (almost) finished machines began to be altered.

And unrealistic: they could not find turners for 40k rubles.

[EvilLion]

Probably because the Su-30MKI appeared earlier, and this is one rich buyer. At the same time, in terms of electronics, the Su-30 will never be made of the Su-35, since on the Su-30 only local automation, a single computer complex, as on the Su-35 in the 90s, has not yet been possible to make.

No increase in the number of purchases at the expense of the Su-30 could have occurred, since the Su-35 is produced at another plant, which the Su-30MKI has never produced before. And even in 30 it was a stretch to call the Su-2012SM a modern aircraft. PGO, a radar from the 90s - this is, I'm sorry, but the solution for the car for the next 10 years is to plug the deficit. And where to get pilots for two-seaters? That's how sparks are, yes, you can even save on them. Ushatav faster resource, but for a makeshift, of which the Su-30SM is not critical.

So do not write enchanting nonsense.

[xoma58]

The backlog of the USSR is over, but there is simply no new one and there is no one to do it.

[Vadim237]

The Soviet groundwork ended in the 90s - and now there is something new and new things are being created.

[Constanty]

We are talking not only about spare parts and equipment, but also about highly qualified personnel and scientists.

[EvilLion]

Yes, some 70-year-old grandfathers assemble planes.

[Shahno]

Quote: xoma58

The backlog of the USSR is over, but there is simply no new one and there is no one to do it.

I don’t know ... This is such a thing ... Schools, if created, are very difficult to kill. If you start paying your Russian chief and leader, and find a sensible leader, everything can be restored.
Only it seems to me that your management does not really respect technology and will not invest. Meaning, when you have a forest here or something ...

[Locksmith]

Quote: OrangeBigg

I also do not share the view of our Ministry of Defense towards aircraft technology. Everyone knows that in the world there is a huge demand for light single-engine fighters with AFAR. Our Ministry of Defense stubbornly does not want to adopt the light MiG-35S with AFAR, the Sukhoi Design Bureau had to proactively develop a light single-engine Su-75 Checkmate. dominates in the minds of the heads of the Ministry of Defense about fighters that for some reason it should be twin-engine heavy machines, and even without AFAR

In MO practice, they think soberly - AFAR is like an iPhone, any flash in the sun (hint is transparent) and a phone is no more than a 170 gram piece of composite guan. PFAR is much more stable, because ALADINA LAMP !!! (There was a joke of humor) Secondly, PFAR is easy to upgrade, if you want a flashlight with 1 mgw at its peak, yes please !! True, lives for 20 minutes, but crap - mom don't cry, and then AFAR with its units of watts in the module ... sad.
The analogy of PFAR is a military gadget, oak and harsh, AFAR is purely for playing, like a modern telephoto. It will be impatient to dig out tomahawks - the phones will die like a class - let's go back to the wired ones, so do not forget the dialing methods on the disk ...

[voyaka uh]

"In MO practice, they think soberly - AFAR is like an iPhone" ///
---
Russian air defense - on AFARs.
So, your argument about resistance to "solar flare" doesn't work.
But air defense does not need compactness, while aviation does.
It is technologically difficult to create a compact AFAR.

[DominickS]

Aladdin's lamp is only the main generator. Phase shifters and amplifiers based on PFAR are made of the same semiconductors, which, if you follow your logic, can burn out from a flash in the sun. So, the difference is not very big.

[outsider]

Quote: sportline

Hmm. None of the foreign operators of our aircraft shares the view of our Ministry of Defense towards aircraft technology. Hindus have been lost, Algeria has not been buying anything for a long time, etc.
There is no progressive view of aircraft equipment and its formats.
Therefore, we have been failing sales of equipment for several years in a row.

- What does the "MO look" have to do with it ?! Russian technologies do not allow making a serial aviation radar with AFAR... And MO has nothing to do with it, we would be glad, but - there is nowhere to take it... And you can't buy it (unless from the Chinese - they already have it!).

[outsider]

Quote: Ratmir_Ryazan

Do you think they put the Irbis into the Su-57?

- There is still some problem with the N-036 "squirrel" radar ...

[Rutrick]

And where does the information about the problem come from?

[outsider]

- From everywhere! So Algeria does not take Russian aircraft without AFAR, "the nose turns up" ...

[tolmachiev51]

Business, although it concerns the defense industry, everyone wants better and cheaper !!! As for the better, here we have eternal "brakes".

[FRoman1984]

Here, in one of the telegram channels, the news came out that Iran was taking these 24 Su-35 aircraft. The guys there are not picky, they have absolutely junk in the Air Force.
Like, pilots are already being sent for training. Yes, and the media wrote the other day that a large package of contracts with Iran worth $ 10 billion was being prepared.

[EvilLion]

When they signed the contract, they knew what they were buying, so the article is nonsense.

[Real Vugluskr]

And let's not forget that Algio and Morocco are about to grapple in open military conflict. Priorities are changing.

But anyway, the news is bad for the 35th. In fact, there are no serious operators, except for the Russian Federation, no export potential. Europe is negative. Maghreb is a minus. Ethiopia is a minus. India and Southeast Asia are there too. Venezuela in homeopathic doses. Everything.

[Chief Officer Lom]

Ish you how everyone got excited by the paid article in the "most honest", "independent" and "impartial" American publication about weapons that compete with the products of the American military-industrial complex, which is an example of fair competition ...

[outsider]

She is really honest among the "damned bourgeois", since there is a competition between concrusants. And the commissions and committees of the Congress and the Senate are competing in their turn crap and Republicans - "grab each other by the hand" - that's why the result is a fair competition. In the USSR, there was something similar - competition between various design bureaus. Today this is absolutely not the case. Hence - punctures, failures and so on ... Competition is a great blessing, its absence is a great evil ...

[Chief Officer Lom]

On the domestic market in the United States, it is possible, although monopoly and collusion bloom and smell there, despite the antimonopoly commission, which has turned into a weapon against a presumptuous colleague rather than an economic instrument. On the international market, lies, bribery and blackmail have long been the mildest of their methods, not only murder, wars are unleashed with millions of victims ...

[outsider]

On the international market, bribery and blackmail have long been the mildest of their methods, not like murder, wars are unleashed with millions of victims ...

- Yes, “as I remember now”: Putin promised Yanukovych in 2014 15 billion dollars so that Ukraine would stand “back to the west, in front of him” - and Yanukovych agreed! The Maidan did not agree: they threw off Yanukovych, he fled to Russia, and the Ukrainians stubbornly rush to Europe and do not want to go to Asiopa ...
The first point - with bribery and blackmail - failed - the second remained: a war with multimillion-dollar victims.
You have painted everything absolutely correctly, like clockwork! That's what it means "a person who thinks in international politics"!

[Chief Officer Lom]

Putin made a typical mistake of a Soviet man - he gave 15 billion not personally to Yanukovych and the "leaders of the nation", but to the state. But the Americans were not too lazy, they provided cash to specific officials, fascists, Nazis, organized training camps for them (Bandera's people), printed and distributed false literature and bought the media (but the agreement on Euroassociation itself was not published very well, everyone knew only the name and what it was. "Okay"). Moreover, the Americans have long lost the habit of simply sticking money into their pockets, they carefully monitor the fulfillment of the paid, even from the terrorists in Afghanistan, they demanded video footage of the murders of Soviet soldiers.

[outsider]

Moreover, the Americans have long lost the habit of simply sticking money into their pockets, they carefully monitor the fulfillment of the paid, even from the terrorists in Afghanistan, they demanded video footage of the murders of Soviet soldiers.

- Americans 20 years (!!) held back the Taliban in Afghanistan, having lost more than 4000 of their soldiers there, thus covering the soft southern underbelly of Russia from the Islamists - and still they are "shitty guys"!
Instead of supporting the Taliban in 2001 - with arms and finances - then today all the former Soviet republics of Central Asia would become ultra-Islamist! And yet they are bastards!
And this moronic bike, about "US payment for the killing of Soviet soldiers" - it was recently launched. Nothing of the kind at a time when the United States really helped the Afghan mujahideen - no one had even heard of anything like it then!

[Chief Officer Lom]

For 20 years, the Americans covered the production of drugs in Afghanistan, which was almost completely destroyed before this by the Taliban, and, as you say, the bike was proven back in Soviet times, video recordings were repeatedly captured, as well as operators. Soon, according to your training manuals, the United States will win the alliance of Hitler and Stalin in WWII ...

[outsider]

Americans for 20 years covered the production of drugs in Afghanistan, almost completely destroyed before this by the Taliban

- Well, why repeat this stupid nonsense incessantly ?! Opium poppy production is one of the few lucrative sectors of the Afghan economy. Today, having swiftly escaped from there, the Americans tearfully asked Russia - and Russia pledged to buy heroin from the TALIBS worth a billion dollars a year, with one condition: that this heroin does not enter the United States! Trade it to the Russians, fill your pockets, get rich - but not to America!
But the Taliban have virtually nothing to export other than opiates:
https://www.bbc.com/russian/features-58380847
https://lenta.ru/news/2021/08/13/ntorg/
https://lenta.ru/articles/2021/08/28/stopnarkotik/
One more nuance: the consumption of heroin (Afghan first of all) all these years in Russia was minimal: it is too expensive for the average Russian drug addict... Afghan heroin went through Russia in transit - to the countries of the first golden billion, enriching Russian border guards, customs officers, police officers, and FSB officers. In Russia, however, local drug users consumed mainly cheap synthetic surrogates, the mortality rate from which is much higher.
But the Americans should not blame this, even in the most propagandistic ecstasy, they are not to blame ...

[Sergey985]

All this looks like a planned hype with signs of blackmail. It's just that the time has come to modernize the available aircraft, so they are trying to bargain for more favorable terms. That is why they need a clean fighter instead of a multifunctional aircraft (which more than covers all assigned tasks)? It is worth asking this question and everything falls into place. You can, of course, buy from the Americans. As a result, in a short time they will find themselves with an outdated fleet of aircraft, since it is extremely expensive to maintain a variegated fleet of aircraft. In this case, one can only dream of modernization (the budget is not rubber).

[Chief Officer Lom]

Quote: Outsider

Americans tearfully asked Russia - and Russia pledged to buy heroin from TALIBS worth a billion dollars a year

delirium

[outsider]

- This information is closed to Russian citizens. Skabeeva won't tell you about it. Just like Kiselev and Solovyov. Therefore, for you it is "nonsense".

[Chief Officer Lom]

I believe you. Moreover, I just learned additional data: since the rogue drug addicts of Russia are unable to pay for this heroin, Putin, through Zelensky (recently the most convicted of drug addiction by the independent Ukrainian media), is distributing it among incomparably richer drug addicts in prosperous Ukraine. The plan is very insidious - in addition to the deterioration of the health of Ukrainians, they begin to see the painted Crimean bridge and begin to believe that Russia is richer and stronger!

[outsider]

- Heroin is indeed used by the Russian special services for a wide variety of operational needs abroad. Secondly, it is simply an additional currency abroad, "freely convertible" in most countries of the world (where there is something to pay).
In Russia, to stimulate the brain activity of the highest echelons and the elite in general, they mainly import cocaine ...

[Chief Officer Lom]

You described in great detail what the USA became famous for all over the world, even a film was made about it - "Air America". The film is of course a fictional one, but such a CIA airline really was and really did it ...

[outsider]

- Well, yes: the CIA is engaged, but the SVR and the GRU are only engaged in hundreds of kilograms of cocaine from Argentina to the deep. Carries mail ...
And who then sells Afghan heroin in Western Europe ?! Who will release such a "piece of dough" billions of dollars ?! Give it to the CIA ?!

[Chief Officer Lom]

The Americans guarded the plantations in Afghanistan, but does the SVR trade? Oh well...

[outsider]

Afghanistan: territory - total 652 km². Is it possible with such small forces to control such an area, where there are mountains - and gorges, mountains - and gorges. And thousands of valleys where you can grow anything!
In addition, the Afghan peasants shouted: "We have nothing to feed our children!"

[Chief Officer Lom]

There are such scales that it was possible to water napalm from planes. Only a few American soldiers wrote that they were allowed to destroy a little on schedule for the report, and no more. And military transports regularly flew from the Afghan airbase, landing freely without inspection at numerous US airbases in Europe. What the fuck is a diplomatic pouch - we are talking about thousands of tons ...

[outsider]

- In the Soviet era, when there was the 40th army in Afghanistan, any contraband, thousands of tons, including those disguised as "cargo 200" was taken out from there. Everything was invented long before the Americans ...

[Chief Officer Lom]

No, let me stand up for the USA - I will not dig deeper into WWII and WWI, let's take the same Air America. And certainly the Soviet troops did not guard the poppy plantations. Don't compare the small business of individual ensigns to the great US business machine.

[outsider]

Quote: OrangeBigg

You have a number of "small" inaccuracies in the picture, I have corrected:

Based:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mikoyan_MiG-35#Specifications_(MiG-35)
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lockheed_Martin_F-35_Lightning_II#Specifications_(F-35A)
This is the first thing. Secondly: is it such a "joke" to compare fighters by weight and speed TODAY? Or is it really a complete misunderstanding?
Today literate people compare fighters exclusively by combat effectiveness: how many times in a duel fight (starting, of course, with mutual detection at long range) a fighter N "blows" the fighter M - and vice versa, with the number of contractions 10, 20, etc., without any external support.

The conclusions are simple. Bring up your knowledge of the topic.

- Gold words! And as they said in time!

[outsider]

Quote: Ratmir_Ryazan

So, I think that AFAR is on the MiG-35.

- To think so is not harmful, but what's the point? ..

[outsider]

Quote: sportline

Hmm. None of the foreign operators of our aircraft shares the view of our Ministry of Defense towards aircraft technology. Hindus have been lost, Algeria has not been buying anything for a long time, etc.
There is no progressive view of aircraft equipment and its formats.
Therefore, we have been failing sales of equipment for several years in a row.

- Yes, what does the "progressive view" have to do with it, if there are no appropriate technologies and there is nowhere to take them ?!

[outsider]

Quote: Saboteur

AFAR on the Su 35 was not purposefully delivered.

- Of course, "purposefully" - if there is no radar with AFAR, then what to do "purposefully" ?! Right! Put on radar with PFAR. And that was done.

And they will never put it on the Su 35.

- "As soon as possible!"