France intends to squeeze Russia in the Indian arms market

France intends to squeeze Russia in the Indian arms market, we are talking about the supply of the main tanks as part of the Indian Future Ready Combat Vehicle (FRCV) military-technical upgrade program. As stated in the documents of the French National Assembly, Paris is studying options for the sale of armored vehicles.

According to the published documents, the French company Nexter intends to win a tender for the supply of new tanks to India, which in the future should replace the T-90 Bhishma and T-72 Ajey tanks in service with the army. The French will offer their Leclerc main battle tank to the Indians. In Paris, they emphasize that the tank has "the greatest chances" to win the competition, since it surpasses all other models, including the Russian "Armata".

(...) a Leclerc tank with a mass of only 55 tons, good mobility, an engine with a capacity of 1500 hp. and excellent firing system has the best chances

- said the deputy of the French National Assembly Nicolas Dupont-Aignan.

New Delhi has not yet commented on the intentions of the French; the Indians are considering various options for purchasing new tanks under the FRCV program. To date, requests have been sent to several countries, including Ukraine and Serbia. In particular, India is considering the Russian Armata, American Abrams, German Leopard 2, South Korean K2, Turkish Altay, Serbian M-84, Ukrainian T-84, Italian Ariete, Israeli Merkava, British Challenger GB and French Leclerc as a new tank.

In total, India intends to purchase 1770 tanks, and the winner of the tender will have to transfer the technology to the Indians to produce tanks at Indian enterprises. All this is planned to be done by 2030, i.e. the first tanks should enter service with the Indian army by this year.

Recall that at the end of December last year, Russia offered India a Russian T-14 Armata tank, modified for the needs of the Indian military. Time will tell what decision will be made in New Delhi.

Comments

[poquello]

To date, requests have been sent to several countries, including Ukraine and Serbia. In particular, India is considering the Russian Armata, American Abrams, German Leopard 2, South Korean K2, Turkish Atalay, Serbian M-84, Ukrainian T-84, Italian Ariete, Israeli Merkava, British Challenger GB and French Leclerc as a new tank.

even reminded me, this is how I order rolls by phone

[korabelnikoffevgeny]

It's funny with Armata ..

[kytx]

With arjun did not grow together .... Nda.

[Alf]

Quote: kytx

With arjun did not grow together .... Nda.

[poquello]

"the winner of the tender will have to transfer to the Indians and technology,"
Leclerc and technology - very interesting

[ivan2022]

Rating of the countries of the world by GDP (PPP) for 2020;
China - 18,3%
Russia - 3,11%
France - 2,3%
Share in arms exports;
Russia - 20%
France - 8,2%
China - 5,2%
And if you make a rating on the mind?
Who will take what place?

[voyaka uh]

"And if you make a rating according to intelligence?" ///
----
Such ratings exist:
1) number of Nobel prizes in natural sciences
2) the number of mathematical awards
3) university ranking
4) the number of patents and issued technical licenses

[cat Rusich]

Quote: voyaka uh

"And if you make a rating according to intelligence?" ///
----

Grigory Perelman proved Poincaré's hypothesis

[ivan2022]

Quote: cat Rusich

Grigory Perelman proved Poincaré's Hypothesis

Is Grigory Perelman in charge of the export of weapons?
From which oak ....?

[voyaka uh]

You wrote: "And if you make a rating on the mind?"
----
On to the mind Perelman is in first place in Russia.
Although the weapon stubbornly does not export

[ivan2022]

Quote: voyaka uh

Such ratings exist:

And what does the export of weapons have to do with it? Do Nobel laureates do this business?

[ximkim]

Leclerc

Hike, nirazu was not used on the battlefield, but bought.

[Serg Kam]

Leclerc
Hike, nirazu was not used on the battlefield, but bought.

And Armata dofiga fought?

[ximkim]

It's still not on sale))

[Serg Kam]

It's still not on sale))

However, they are trying to sell:
"Recall that at the end of December last year, Russia offered India a Russian T-14 Armata tank, modified for the needs of the Indian military."

[Horst78]

Bought by the French themselves + the UAE.

[marat2016]

Jordan now has 70pcs ...

[kytx]

Whoa whoa! Leclerc fought with the Saudis in Yemen. And he showed himself well. Unlike Leo2.

[paul3390]

Leclerc fought with the Saudis in Yemen. And he showed himself well

And How? Have the Saudis defeated the Houthis? With such and such a prodigy?

[nks]

Leclerc UAE - the KSA never had them, but they really fought in Yemen as part of the Saudi coalition.

Quote: kytx

Unlike Leo2.

In contrast to the Abrams, which the Houthis got there decently. Leo2 was not there - they showed themselves badly in Syria against the Kurds :)

[bovi]

wait a second, Turkish chtol? so they are outdated, you can say this is not the leo2 that India can pick now. Although IMHO, this is all too desirable and not at all about reality.

[nks]

Yes, Turkish. Firstly, I just corrected the incorrect statement, and secondly, although this has nothing to do with the topic, but in the case of Turkish leo2 there is a certain food for analysis in the context of this tender as well.

[bovi]

the Turkish leopard park has been partially renovated, partially not very much. in the nomenclature were: engines, anti-reactive armor, as well as Kaz. The latter did not fit into the budget at all, if memory serves. Therefore, I am not surprised that the Kurds burned them.
I do not mean that you inappropriately mentioned, but that there is just the name leopard 2. But in fact, these are the tanks of the end of the Cold War. Now, the regular army will have to deal with "gray proxies" who can be armed with unexpectedly modern types of weapons.

[kytx]

Arab users were unhappy with Leo2 and BMP3. If the losses of the BMP can be attributed to improper use, then the losses of Leo2 are generally not justified.

[nks]

It is in the case of Turkish Leo2 (and not only Leo2) that the incorrect use and poor training of Turkish crews is striking.

[kytx]

, I'm not talking about Turkish but about Arab. Leclerc was not lost in one and the same theater of operations.

[Rome]

Yemen was sent from 70 to 80 Emirati Leclerc tanks. Interestingly, during the conflict, the UAE tank brigade carried out an amphibious landing (sic!) In the area of ​​the oil terminal near Aden, presumably from tank landing ships. Further, the brigade, moving along the N-1 highway, captured the Al-Anad airbase near Aden, for which the Saudi units had previously unsuccessfully fought. The capture of the base opened the way for the allies to Aden.
Citing sources in the UAE, it is reported that Leclerc was hit four times by various anti-tank systems. In two cases, it was a landmine, in the third - an RPG grenade, which was destroyed by the dynamic defense of the AZUR kit, and the fourth got ATGM. In all cases, the tanks remained intact, although in one case the ATGM killed the tank commander when it fell into the commander's hatch.
Emirati tankers expressed their admiration for the tanks to their French counterparts, while other coalition armies were deeply impressed with the tank's performance. And in January 2016, the Saudi leadership approached the Leclerc tank manufacturer Nexter Systems (currently part of the KNDS concern) with an interest in the possibility of purchasing several hundred vehicles.

Leclerc seems to have combat experience. But it is still not suitable for the role of a future tank, its concept goes back to the 20th century.

[nks]

Quote: Eroma

Leclerc is reported to have been hit four times by various anti-tank systems. In two cases, it was a landmine, in the third - an RPG grenade, which was destroyed by the dynamic defense of the AZUR kit, and the fourth got ATGM. In all cases, the tanks remained intact, although in one case the ATGM killed the tank commander when it fell into the commander's hatch.

In general, it is said about about ~ 16 hits (not counting explosions on land mines) of which one penetration. Of course, it is certainly not known there, but the hit was more likely in the area of ​​the mechanic drive hatch. The mechvod is killed, the commander is lightly wounded in the leg (which is logical), the tank is on the move. Actually, the Leclerc is the only tank in the world that participated in real databases and does not have irrecoverable losses.

Quote: Eroma

But he still is not suitable for the role of a future tank.

The role of tanks in the future is generally questionable - so probably no tank is yet suitable for the role of a tank of the future. At least I have not even seen a single concept (but realistic for implementation).

[Rome]

"The role of tanks in the future is generally questionable - so probably no tank is yet suitable for the role of a tank of the future. At least I have not even seen a single concept (but realistic for implementation)."
Tanks still have a future, I think a well-protected vehicle with devastating weapons will be in demand I think always
The same Armata: the central part of the vehicle is an uninhabited module, the defeat of which does not kill the crew and does not disable the engine, and modern roof-fighters strive to hit tanks exactly in the tower! failure of the weapon itself is a matter of the likelihood of hitting the weapon or loading mechanism. Those. breaking through the roof of the tower near Armata, you can disable her weapon, but not destroy the tank! That is, the survivability of the Armata is an order of magnitude higher than that of modern models; if successful, the tank can generally retain its full combat capability. Those. Armata conceptually tank of the future

[nks]

Quote: Eroma

Those. breaking through the roof of the tower near Armata, you can disable her weapon, but not destroy the tank!

This statement is not supported by practical evidence and is questionable when critically examined. In general, the concept of an uninhabited BM is not very new, while not to say that it has received a strong distribution, it can be implemented in different ways and has its pros and cons. All this hardly allows us to consider this decision as a whole as some unambiguous sign of the tank of the future. Yes, one must think that if a BC in a T-14 catches fire, the crew will not suffer (as was often the case with various modifications of the T-72, etc.), but if there are OFS and BC there detonates, then the crew will be just as bad (they are unlikely to find anything from him), as in other tanks in a similar case. Moreover, perhaps the crew would have had chances if the BC were still carried out into the tower niche. And as for the fact that the crew will not lose control of the engine when the BC burns out - I'm not sure either. I have not heard anything about the tests in this regard. Do you have such information?

[Rome]

I do not follow the fate of Armata, in my reasoning there is only logic
On the VO there were photos of Armata on the conveyor, there was no body kit on the turret. From these photos you can see that only a weapon is placed in the tower, a small space for access to tech, i.e. actually about half the width of the body, if not less. After installing the body kit, the tower becomes the width of the entire body. Those. hitting the roof of the tower specifically, the cumulative jet is likely to hit the gun, given how much iron there is, then the cumul gun will end if it hits next to the gun, then first you need to break through the roof of the tower, then the jet should not scatter, spreading the equipment, and I think special fillers (not an empty box there) in the tower, break through the roof of the hull and overcome another half meter of space (generally from the point of breaking through on the roof, up to BC I think more than 1,5 m) and retain the ability to break through the protection of the BC and actually ignite the BC. For cassette elements, this task is most likely not feasible, only ATGM warheads are capable of such a thing, and that is not a fact. In modern tanks, broke through the roof and immediately inflict critical damage on the crew, in western tanks on the BC in the rear of the tower with its possible detonation, i.e. the design of the Armata is much more tenacious because critical damage can only be inflicted on the hull (and it is difficult to damage the engine from above, since it is covered by a canopy from the tower), even on the side, in modern tanks and the projection of the tower gives a weakened zone, while in Armata it does not ...
I think today tanks have sufficient firepower, but not enough survivability, so the tank of the future should have a higher survivability and a design into which a module with a weapon based on new physical principles can be inserted, if this is created, Armata is a step in the right direction.

[nks]

I did not quite understand your initial passage about the fact that you do not follow the reinforcement, but at the same time you are looking at its photo and conjecturing what is inside. Anyway. Firstly, I want to note that we are considering only one aspect (out of many) of the tank design associated with the defeat of the ammo, which can, in turn, be divided into two - the probability of hitting the ammunition (those that it either ignites or detonates) and the degree destruction of the tank and the crew if this happens. We briefly discussed the second part, so now let's talk about the first.

Quote: Eroma

Those. hitting the roof of the tower specifically, the cumulative jet is likely to hit the gun

1. You can watch the real one (those videos of tank defeats in the same Syria) and make sure that these beautiful vertical hits are exactly in the center of the tower - they are mostly from advertising. In reality, different PTSs are used, they are often with semi-automatic guidance and the operators will try to aim at any vulnerable spots of the tank.
2. The dimensions of the breech of a tank gun are actually about the same for all tanks with a similar caliber, and only its location matters.
3. The location of the BC matters. I believe that, of course, the BK is more protected on the T-14 than on the T-72 * and its upgrades (there the material of the charges gave good chances of ignition and the large, not particularly protected area of ​​the carousel gave a high probability of hitting it with a high-energy fragment at any defeat of the tower), but if there is about the same carousel, then it is the absence of a massive wide tower (and even possibly a smaller shoulder strap) that does not particularly increase its defense, and it is expected that even the "roof-fighters" with auto-guidance will straight neatly always get into the center with the breech, I would be :)

[Rome]

Let's digress from the BC, which in fact is in the hull, what gives an uninhabited module instead of a tower? When the T72 turret and the like are penetrated into any projection of the turret (forehead, side, stern and roof), the striking elements incapacitate the crew, often cause a fire that can destroy the entire tank! Western tanks, including Leclerc, are also adding a hit to the rear of the turret, the possibility of detonating ammunition, which also destroys the entire tank! That is, for modern tanks, if the turret armor was pierced into any projection, then hitting the gun and "disarming" the tank is a huge success and the least that can happen to the tank! Moreover, to destroy the tank by breaking through the turret armor of both powerful ATGMs, or BOPS, and low-power elements of cluster munitions, because the tower is full of elements critical for the tank (the crew, in the western tanks of the BC) and the tower has a single space almost completely with a tank except for the engine, and if a fire started, then the whole tank burns out.
Armata has nothing in the tower, except for the weapon and observation systems! That is, it can be pierced into any projection and the breakage of the weapon is the maximum that can be achieved! Those. in a modern tank, including Leclerc, a gun breakdown is the minimum that can happen to a tank, and for the Armata it is the maximum! This is the difference, due to its design, the Armata is an order of magnitude more tenacious machine.

[nks]

It's not very clear to me how, in a magical way, when a PTS enters a tower that has (according to you) observation systems, as well as aiming systems, launchers and other sensors, in your opinion, this is "a weapon breakdown is the maximum that can be achieved! "? All this can also be destroyed or disabled in whole or in part. Now, as for the BC - you may be surprised that in various "western tanks" it is actually located in different ways (somewhere similar, but not the same), but if we are talking about the BC in the T-14, but how much it is known (and the small tower gives every reason to assume this), the BC is located there similarly (with changes) to the T-72, and assumes a common space (in general, the turret installation of the tank includes a turret basket, where the BC is located). It's just that now there is no crew in this space, and if we are still talking about the likelihood of fire / detonation of the ammo, then the unmanned turret does not play a role here. The likelihood was most likely reduced due to the more resistant materials of the shells of the charges and their additional protection in the AZ. As for the leclerk, his AZ with the first stage ammunition unit is just separated by a solid partition from the BO with the cannon breech and 2 crew members. Those are either still the defeat of the BC, or the cannons with part of the instruments and part of the crew. Now about the protection / survival of the crew as a whole. Here you need to understand that there are two models / ideologies - in one they reduce the likelihood of any damage to the crew, and in the other they reduce the likelihood of hitting all crew members at once and thus completely disabling the tank as a combat unit. Which one I won’t argue about, you can just take a look at them a little. The probability of hitting the crew in general in the T-14, where it is all concentrated in a small volume, is less than in the leclerk, where it is distributed, and the probability of hitting all crew members (or the expectation of the number of people affected) is greater. Here you can take a case from practice with the same with a leclerk. Penetration into the zone of the mechanic drive hatch (and any hatches are a weakened zone). Kills one crew member and easily injures another. By the way, the commander and the gunner-gunner are separated from each other in the leclerk's turret just by the breech of the gun - if they hit the turret, only one of them will most likely be killed. At the same time, possessing a certain skill, they can get into each other's places by climbing over the breech, similarly to a commander with a mechanized drive. The T-14 has two hatches in this place (and this, by the way, for 3 crew members) - with such a hit, the damage would be greater. In this case, the car remained generally on the move - the controls are duplicated for all. At the same time, the Leclerc, being the first of the most automated and digital tanks, retained the capabilities of manual duplication - loading, turret rotation, guidance. The T-14, when the electronic surveillance system fails, is completely disabled - the maxim (and that will already be inconvenient) he is able to leave this battlefield on his own. This is the minus of its layout.

[Rome]

As for the crew, I agree with you, if you manage to break through the capsule, then the crew is out of the game. Until today, it was critical, but today developments in the field of drones of all kinds, if the crew fails, the tank, while maintaining the ability to move, can be removed from the battle remotely, or it can evacuate itself, or even continue the battle automatically or with remote control if the crew is guaranteed to die and there is no one to save. but the crew is in the most secure place in the tank, behind the as the facts of penetration vld modern tanks seem to be encountered, the tanks were destroyed anywhere, but not in the forehead!
Manual control in modern warfare is an unproductive option, to fight on a faulty tank, it is actually an opportunity to die heroically, this function for a hopeless situation, given the complexity of modern weapons, it is probably more profitable to save the crew and possibly the vehicle than to sacrifice them. Although, fortunately, I was not in the war and it is difficult for me to judge this. Combat modules are being actively implemented all over the world, I think the military still knows what they are doing.
In the forehead, the tower occupies roughly 50% of the projection, a modern tank in the forehead of the tower is destroyed, and in the combat module it is unlikely to be destroyed

[nks]

You somehow completely move away from reality - both into the future and into the past at the same time. It is very naive to expect that the tank will be fired at only in a narrow sector of heading angles with BOPS (that's probably what they thought until the 80s) - practice shows that the main vehicle is ATGM and RPG and flies from it anywhere like from above, including the hull and into the side. By the way, it was the chosen layout that did not allow the T-14 to significantly increase the booking from the sides, and the forehead too. At the same time, the length of the body of the T-14 turned out to be more than the abrams and almost 2 meters more than that of the leclerc. And by the way, the armor of the turret's forehead is usually no less than that of the hull. As for drones / automatically, etc. - it's all beautiful, but firstly, the T-14 in the near future will not have similar capabilities, like other tanks, and at the same time, the layout / technology of the T-14 does not give any particular advantages here. ... I agree that the damaged tank, in an amicable way, should get out of the battle and other vehicles should help it in this, but keeping the ability to do it on its own, including covering itself, is a plus. I'm not talking about minimizing casualties.

Quote: Eroma

Combat modules are being actively implemented all over the world, I think the military still knows what they are doing.
In the forehead, the tower occupies roughly 50% of the projection, a modern tank in the forehead of the tower is destroyed, and in the combat module it is unlikely to be destroyed

You have something with terminology in trouble. The tower is part of a combat module (one of the types) and the BM T-14 includes a tower. Yes, there is no crew there - that's all.

[Maxim G]

It turns out that only armored vehicles will remain - armored vehicles, armored personnel carriers, infantry fighting vehicles?
Having the ability to hit heavy armored vehicles, buildings, etc.?

[nks]

a tank is also an armored vehicle :) In general, this is a question of terminology. We often refer to a tank as a classic breakthrough tank, and somewhere at times they call some SPG tanks somewhat contemptuously, and this is the essence of the problem. It often turns out that in a specific theater of operations a tank is both redundant and insufficient and not so invulnerable to justify its high deployment cost. Indeed, lighter armored vehicles now have sufficient firepower to support infantry in standard urban areas and work against enemy heavy armored vehicles. Tanks need to become more versatile and balanced, centered and better interact with other species.

[Maxim G]

Those. do you need a more compact tank - like a mountain one?

[nks]

No, I’m rather the opposite about universalization and about functions than a specific machine, which, in principle, can be called in any way. The question is about improving the capability-efficiency / cost-resources ratio. Again, the wheeled chassis is cheaper than the tracked chassis and during intensive use, even its resource as such, rather than its cost, may be more important. At the same time, the wheeled chassis still has weight restrictions and lighter cars on it.
For example, you can take the same French AMX-10rc and the new generation EBRC Jaguar.
This is a BRM (according to the French classification, about the same), some call the AMX-10rc a wheeled tank for a 105mm cannon, the EBRC may not be considered such, although it actually has more firepower than the AMX-10rc. During WWII, this function was carried out by light reconnaissance tanks (classification of those times). Whether to call a wheeled vehicle a tank is a personal matter, the classification can be whatever it is, as long as it is adequate to the tactics of use. The EBRC has enough capabilities to work against a typical concrete urban development, supporting the infantry, at low-speed air targets, most MBTs on board - all this with a cannon. For more serious purposes (both MBT and strengthening) ATGM MMP. For even more serious fortifications, 15 * mm self-propelled guns or aircraft would be better anyway.

The question can be posed in this way, is it possible to effectively use existing tanks and whether it is worth developing new classic MBT. For me, the answer "yes" to the second question is not obvious, but if you already have such expensive toys as tanks, and they have modernization potential, then you need to expand their capabilities. For example, teach them to shoot from closed positions at an external control center, again use them as platforms for launching small drones.

[tralflot1832]

Hindus gathered almost all tank manufacturers in a tender. And what does Pakistan breathe?

[Andrey Moskvin]

Pakistan, like Oplota, is tormenting.

[Bad_gr]

Quote: Andrey Moskvin

Pakistan, like Oplota, is tormenting.

Ukraine sold not "Oplots" to Pakistan, but T-80UD. This is a Soviet-era tank. "Oplot" is already a Ukrainian development of the T-80UD, where everything of Russian production, if possible, was replaced with non-Russian parts. In general, the filling of these tanks is different.
Pakistan considered the option of purchasing Ukrainian Oplots, but preferred to buy Chinese VT-4s.

[ximkim]

In Pakistan, the pie is more varied.
But the PRC is not on the sidelines either.

[Aerodrome]

Quote: tralflot1832

Hindus gathered almost all tank manufacturers in a tender. And what does Pakistan breathe?

with the fleet the same. and, yes, they refused ours.

[faiver]

Pakistan, if anything, the Chinese will throw ...

[donavi49]

Pakistan gets new things from its overlord.

Islamabad has signed a contract with the Chinese corporation Norinco for the supply of 176 VT-4 main battle tanks equipped with ERA armor (Option FY-IV) and a firm option for another 124 vehicles.
For Pakistan, the VT4 tank has been upgraded. In addition to equipping with ERA armor (FY-IV variant), it is equipped with a Chinese water-cooled diesel engine with an electronic control system with a capacity of 1300 hp, whose maximum power can reach 1500 hp. The production of the second generation Sino-Pakistani MBT-2000 / Al-Khalid tanks will continue along with the supply of the latest VT4 main battle tanks.

[aslan balaev]

Quote: tralflot1832

Hindus gathered almost all tank manufacturers in a tender. And what does Pakistan breathe?

Indeed, all tank manufacturers have been recounted, except Pakistan. Even an Italian wheeled one. But half can be eliminated right away. 1770 !!! A fat piece !!! "Russia proposes to create a new tank on the basis of Armata for the Indian Army." But the French are clearly on fire. If after Raphael and Leclerc they can sell, then ask the Indian market for 20 years. In addition to air defense systems, of course.

[svp67]

In total, India intends to purchase 1770 tanks,

A good jackpot really worth fighting for ...

and the winner of the tender will have to transfer to the Indians and technology to produce tanks at Indian enterprises.

Here, somehow, the Western partners have problems, although in India a lot is decided both by personal ties and the amounts entered into specific offices

[Pivot]

What did you yourself bring into Indian offices? Be so confident about it. So far, the Indians are making very deliberate choices. And if they themselves did not enter it, it smells like slander.

[svp67]

Quote: Pivot

So far, the Indians are making very deliberate choices.

Do not tell .... How they are "sausage", it has already become a classic

Quote: Pivot

And if you didn't enter it yourself, then it smells like slander

That is, a lot of criminal cases in India related to corruption in the procurement of weapons do you consider the same SLAVE? Well then yes ...

[Pivot]

How is it sausage? The fact that instead of the Mi28 they took the Apache, it was clearly stated there, there is no missile armament on the Mi, according to the principle of firing - I forgot, and so on in many positions. They used to write a lot of things on the fence, too, now it's easier to do it on the net, so as not to be an idiot specifically, what are the criminal cases and for what contracts?

[svp67]

Quote: Pivot

How is it sausage?

Strong enough. What can be seen on the example of the procurement of fighters. When the conditions of the tender changed several times and very much. As a result of these "wagging", even the "Nordic" Swedes simply left, realizing that they would not be able to fulfill their demands so quickly.

Quote: Pivot

in order not to be a gibberish specifically, what are the criminal cases and for what contracts?

Forgive me, but if you are so clumsy and unable to type a request on the Internet, then please read ...

A grandiose corruption scandal erupted in India, in which Defense Minister Arakkaparambil Kurian Anthony and Chief of the Joint Staff of the Ground Forces (in Russian terminology, Commander-in-Chief) Vijay Kumar Singh were involved. Against this background, a major international arms exhibition Defexpo-2012 was held in Delhi last week, one of the main participants of which was Russia. For her, the Indian scandal may turn out to be an unexpected success: military experts predict that the products of the Russian military-industrial complex will rush to the Indian market - one of the most promising in the world, writes Kommersant.
It is curious that one of the leading Russian car manufacturers, KamAZ, was involved in the scandal, albeit in an Indian way, but still unprecedented in the modern history of this country, although it was very indirectly involved, informs Rossiyskaya Gazeta. She summarizes the point.
Chief Singh allegedly received an offer for a large bribe to buy and equip the Indian Army with a large batch of Czech Tatra heavy trucks, more precisely, platforms on which you can place multiple launch rocket systems and repair shops, and use them for their intended purpose - for transporting goods and personal composition.
General Singh, according to his version, was outraged and reported everything to the Minister of Defense. He ordered a check, after which the scandal surfaced. The Daily News & Analysis newspaper, published in Mumbai, immediately published a copy of Singh's secret letter, which he sent to the country's Prime Minister Manmohan Singh. In it, the commander-in-chief of the ground forces actually reported on the incapacity of the national army.

A high-profile scandal erupted in India in connection with an investigation into the purchase of two tanker ships from Italy for the naval forces. The current cabinet of ministers has taken up the study of the deal, which was concluded by the previous government of India.
From the testimony of the officer, it follows that the customer was artificially created conditions under which the supplier of warships could become and subsequently became the only company - the Italian shipyard Fincantieri

I spent six minutes on this, and there is still ...

Quote: Pivot

The fact that instead of the Mi28 they took the Apache, it was clearly stated there, there is no missile armament on the Mi, according to the principle of firing - I forgot, and so on in many positions.

You forgot to tell that the condition to have such weapons on a helicopter appeared a few years later during the tender itself. Only that...

[Pivot]

I am English-speaking and believe me in India they do not write about this, this is Soloviev and To us they write here that everything is bad there, and they do not take our best weapons because there is someone who brings money to someone. The most interesting thing was that no one was imprisoned. And in terms of missile armament, our helicopters ... ask amers to dry.

[svp67]

Quote: Pivot

And in terms of missile armament, our helicopters ask amers to dry.

Yes? Oh well...

[Pivot]

Well, come on, an example in which packages we surpass in accuracy and range at the same time, and forgot the principle of shooting. Or do you rate them by the loudness of broads?

[Pivot]

Are you sure of the reliability of the sources that you dug up in 6 minutes ???

[svp67]

Quote: Pivot

Are you sure of the reliability of the sources that you dug up in 6 minutes ???

Enough. I managed to check this information through English-language sources

[paul3390]

While Indians are making very deliberate choices

In your opinion - all that wild zoo, into which the disco dancers have turned, say, their Air Force, is this a deliberate choice ?? I have little idea how to supply and maintain all THIS in case of serious hostilities .. Now they want to arrange the same for tanks ..

[Pivot]

Well, it's not for you to evaluate the zoo, each car for its own tasks, the old resource will work out and there will be three cars. If ours could provide a normal plane, there would be no questions.

[paul3390]

As I understand it - to you? What have the tasks to do with it? How are you going to use a fleet of vehicles with completely different weapons, spare parts, fuel, skills of technicians and pilots, and so on and so on? Not - in a peaceful life, it will probably fail, but imagine basing Rafale and Sushki at the same airfield near the Himalayas? Can such a need arise in the case of butting with the Chinese? In the same place, all logistics will be covered, and the staff will shoot themselves.

[Pivot]

Do you know how the logistics work there and what kind of staff is there? We are here evaporated what is our most, and if they bought from the French or the Americans, or God forbid from the Jews, what percentage they brought, so who in this case prevents ours from bringing in? Not really the conscience of a Soviet citizen ???

[Alf]

Quote: Pivot

so who in this case prevents ours from entering?

On the "other" side, the envelopes are usually thicker. “There” they believe that the thicker the envelope being brought in, the more it will be possible to take from the contract later, and we believe that the thicker the envelope “there”, the less it will remain for yourself, your beloved. The difference is dramatic ... And the results are appropriate ...

[Pivot]

And who makes our people think so, let them consider them as competitors.

[Alf]

Quote: Pivot

And who makes our people think so, let them consider them as competitors.

So I said that the thicker the envelope "there", the less in your pocket now. And our bureaucrats live one day, without looking ahead.

[Pivot]

Come on))) A man loves money everywhere, no matter where he comes from.

[Alf]

Quote: Pivot

Come on))) A man loves money everywhere, no matter where he comes from.

I mean, they love and know how to milk a cow for years, but here the principle is to grab now, because what will happen tomorrow, I don’t know.

[Pivot]

Come on, tell Chubais this, now everything is the same as it is, after all, at 91 m, we turned onto the democratic curve.

[Alf]

Quote: Pivot

we are now all like there,

Not everyone. Do you know a lot of those elites who are ruining their country? And which of the officials of those countries keeps the money over the hill? Or kids?

Quote: Pivot

we turned 91m on the democratic curve.

They not only turned off, but also turned off the headlights. And the driver himself.

[Pivot]

Yes, there was no driver, there was a shameful jester. Time will tell, of course, but my opinion is bought from someone who knows how to sell, we are unlikely to be moved by tanks, but by helicopters and airplanes they can easily be squeezed out, and even by naval technology we sank to the bottom.

[Alf]

Quote: Pivot

Yes, there was no driver, there was a shameful jester.

Yes, by and large, and now the same. On turntables and airplanes, it seems, have already been squeezed out, and the fleet has never been our strong point.

[Flooding]

Quote: svp67

A good jackpot, which is really worth fighting for ..

Shoigu, Lavrov and Putin did not fly to India in December for nothing.

[alone]

it's good that tanks don't fly ..

[svp67]

Quote: lonely

it's good that tanks don't fly ..

Well, it’s in vain ... "Guards" fly ... well, so low, low ...

[alone]

Given the degree of accidents in the Indian Air Force, it is good that the tanks "fly" low-low

[paul3390]

it's good that tanks don't fly ..

You are simply not informed about the real performance characteristics of the latest developments ..

[Mountain shooter]

Somehow horses-people mixed up in a bunch ... Price does not matter? Or more expensive purchases will be "brought in"?

[Or me]

France intends squeeze Russia out of the Indian arms market

Intention is far from the end result.

[Wedmak]

and the winner of the tender will have to transfer to the Indians and technology to produce tanks at Indian enterprises.

Something straight, the Indians have dispersed ... no one will give them the technologies of Armata, Abrams, Leopard, Leclerc - this time. And the Koreans are unlikely to share with the British. Merkava is generally not exported, if you remember.

Turkish Atalay, Serbian M-84, Ukrainian T-84

Are these tanks better than the T-90? Come on...

[Alf]

Quote: Wedmak

Merkava is generally not exported, if you remember.

Maybe because the engine supplier does not give an export permit? As, for example, the Germans podnat the Turks .. with their diesel engine.

[Momento]

for such a contract they will pay with technology. all the more so while they master them, new technologies will appear.

[Zomanus]

Oh, India is also trying to do the splits. Only they do not take into account that Leclerc was created for war in somewhat different conditions than on the border with China and Pakistan. It seems to me. here we have knocking out a discount.

[yuriy55]

France intends to squeeze Russia in the Indian arms market

With such a sluggish Russian production - maybe.
==========
To compete by providing perspectives as a commodity is becoming the rule of the Russian military-industrial complex. We cannot do it for ourselves, but we offer to India ...

[Jacket in stock]

Quote: yuriy55

We cannot do it for ourselves, but we offer to India

Well, how bae ...
The T90 was born.
If not the Indians, we would have no tank factories left at all.

[Old tanker]

With such a sluggish Russian production - maybe.

Considering that Leclercs have not been produced for a long time ...

[75 Sergey]

And in the Australian market, they do not want to press anyone?

[Emergency]

Technologies, technologies. Not a horse feed. And our technologies are shared, and under license the Indians produce certain types of weapons, but what's the point?

[paul3390]

As in an old joke about Avtovaz:
- I told you - the place is damned, and you - hands from zheppa, hands from zheppa ..

[Siberian54]

And what is left for them after the fiasco in Australia? Only to interfere with the sphere of interests of the Russian Federation, the impression is that the State Department broke them off so much specifically for this aggressiveness

[marat2016]

France has been successfully working with India for a long time ...

[Siberian54]

How unpleasant it is to realize, but the base of Soviet weapons in the third world countries began to decline, and the Russian one is in the funnel of the nineties, zero years.

[smart fellow]

Turkish Atalay

Correctly "Altay".
Comment

no one will give them the technologies of Armata, Abrams, Leopard, Leclerc - this time. And the Koreans are unlikely to share with the British

Correctly "share".
It is unlikely that the Turks designed a world-competitive tank from scratch. The Koreans clearly transferred all their military technology to them on the tank. They have in the first place among the opponents of the DPRK, then Japan and then the PRC. And they don't give a damn about the rest. The Turks simply gave good bribes to the state. officials and directors of Hyundai. However, Turkey is a NATO member, while India is not. So that the Americans can intervene here.

[Hermit21]

So "Altai" is a licensed (or semi-licensed) K2, spoiled by crooked Turkish hands.

[smart fellow]

Well, yes. Now the Indians can also "improve" them if they conclude a contract with the Koreans.

[kytx]

Nooooo. Maybe they pulled something, but k2 is much more expensive than Altai.

[smart fellow]

The license, as I understand it, is if the Turks collected copies of K2. Moreover, in the amount specified in the license. For example, like the Indians T-90 or the Chinese Su-27. And the Turks claim that they have developed their own tank.
Of course, the Turks did not steal technology, but bought it. But to sell them to them, they obviously greased the right people.

[Alf]

Quote: smart fellow

So that the Americans can intervene here.

This "process" has been worked out to the point of automatism among the backsland residents.

[Cat Alexandrovich]

Is it possible purely technically and technologically? Transfer technology and start producing tanks (any from the list) this year? Isn't it very fast?

[Zaurbek]

In their place, I would choose a trolley and separately BO ... ...

[Sergey39]

Did the French name the cost of their tank?

[Boa kaa]

Quote: Sergey39

Did the French name the cost of their tank?

To get the right answer, you need to ask the right question! (With)
You have the right question and asked it on time!
It remains only to regret that over the centuries the ARIAs have degenerated into gypsies, having lost their mind in pursuit of sparkles ...
The Hindus were not taught anything by the story of the Agostas (DPL), when the price of the frogs was doubled in comparison with the previously agreed price. The Rafals deal did not teach them anything, when the price story repeated itself ... Now they decided to step on the rake with the "Leclerc" sign for the third time ... I am amazed at the stubbornness of those seeking "personal gain" from government orders.
but it seems to me that nothing will come of this district:
1. Leclercs are the most expensive toys on the world tank market:

In 2011 prices, its cost was $ 9,3 million, while the American M1A2 "pulled" only some $ 7,56 million, and the Russian T-90 (according to some sources) cost buyers $ 4 million.

2. The French for their armored scooter collected technologies and components from all over the Western world: the gun was first German, the diesel was Finnish, the ISU was half-state ... Then, of course, everything was reworked and French, but the roots remained.
And I personally find it difficult to imagine how all this will "fit" on the production base of the qigan ... If only to supply for assembly with "machine sets" ... in this case, you will have to modernize your production.
But, there is no dispute: Leclerc is probably the best western tank of the "high-tech" variant today. But it's one thing to prancing at parades, and another thing to climb through rags to riches!
Therefore, they have not come up with anything better than our Armata for battle.

[Bad_gr]

Quote: Boa constrictor KAA

Now they decided to step on the rake with the sign "Leclerc" for the third time.

This rake is pretty cute if you look from the inside:

Alas, this whole economy, even in peaceful conditions of operation, does not please with its reliability.

[Siberian54]

Interestingly, after a hard blow from the bop, this beauty will not start to "reboot"?

[nks]

Quote: Boa constrictor KAA

The Hindus were not taught anything by the history of the Agostas (DPL), when the price

hmm?)) Hello NG?))

Quote: Boa constrictor KAA

1. Leclercs are the most expensive toys on the world tank market:

This is not true. Leclerc was the most expensive in the 90s, when it was the first tank of a new generation and there were no others with a similar level of avionics equipment, after Japanese and Korean counterparts appeared, as well as American, German, etc., during the modernization they received a similar level of equipment, it became cost about the same. I must say that there are different versions of the leclerc - it was also upgraded already in the production process (and now the existing fleet is being upgraded to the XLR level) and the latest version of the SXXXI cost ~ 8 million euros, which at some date will be ~ $ 9,3 million, and the cost of the life cycle, including infrastructure, was estimated at ~ 16 million euros, but for example Poland bought 250 abrams for ~ $ 6 billion ($ 24 million / piece) and it is unlikely that this contract contains spare parts and so on for the entire life cycle

Quote: Boa constrictor KAA

rones scooter collected technologies and components from all over the Western world: the gun was first German, the diesel was Finnish, the ISU was half-state ...

Smoke materiel. The gun has always been French - it was the Germans who later upgraded the cannon to LEO2 (well, on Abrams with merkavami) to match the power of the French, there was never a Finnish diesel engine - only French in French, and German MTU in Emirates. About ISU - it's completely ridiculous, amerskoe and now it is inferior to French, and then there was nothing to compare.

Quote: Boa constrictor KAA

But it's one thing to prancing at parades, and another thing to climb through rags to riches! bully
Therefore, they have not come up with anything better than our Armata for battle. yes

You have something wrong with reality. Leclerc successfully participated in the database, and armata - so far only in parades

[Yarhann]

I agree that Leclerc is the best western tank - and it is - by releasing the loader, they reduced the armor and added more armor, while not greatly increasing the mass. The tank is mobile and well protected.

[Hermit21]

In particular, India is considering the Russian Armata, American Abrams, German Leopard 2, South Korean K2, Turkish Atalay, Serbian M-84, Ukrainian T-84, Italian Ariete, Israeli Merkava, British Challenger GB and French Leclerc as a new tank.

And almost everything is armored debris on the tracks.

[Vasyan1971]

France intends to squeeze Russia in the Indian arms market

And France does not intend to squeeze the United States in the Australian arms market?

[Alf]

Quote: Vasyan1971

France intends to squeeze Russia in the Indian arms market

And France does not intend to squeeze the United States in the Australian arms market?

Maybe he has intentions, but he immediately imagines the scope of the "problems".

[Vasyan1971]

Quote: Alf

Maybe he has intentions, but he immediately imagines the scope of the "problems".

And having contacted India, it seems, does not represent.

[Alf]

Quote: Vasyan1971

Quote: Alf

Maybe he has intentions, but he immediately imagines the scope of the "problems".

And having contacted India, it seems, does not represent.

Big country, big problems.

[Vasyan1971]

Quote: Alf

Big country, big problems.

And in-oh-from such a NATIONAL COLORIT.

[Ingvar K]

The issue of technology is controversial, what exactly will be transferred and what will be supplied as spare parts. For example, in the Second World War, opponents could not arrange the release of a successful enemy weapon - difficulties with the organization of production. That is, the Indians will suffer for 20-30 years until they begin to rivet their tanks and, accordingly, will lag behind the world leaders for 20 years.

[svoroponov]

In general, it is in vain that India makes a hodgepodge of the army. I understand that the financial interests of the leadership on kickbacks, but the Western countries, in comparison with Russia, sin by imposing sanctions on their own interests, if anything, and under pressure from the overlord in the person of the United States.
If Russia is a friend, then a friend, while Westerners have India today, and tomorrow a friend is some kind of tribe of the wrong faith, and India is immediately an enemy and away we go. And yet, when tested by the Indians, Russian tank equipment has always been ahead of the Westerners when testing it in the harshest conditions of operation and use.

[Vitaly Petrov_3]

Quote: Sergey39

Did the French name the cost of their tank?

While they are standing, they will say to sit down then!

[PROXOR]

I doubt it very much. If only the French would give the Indians a Leclerc with a 125mm gun. Ammunition depots in India are not small.

[SovAr238A]

Quote: PROXOR

I doubt it very much. If only the French would give the Indians a Leclerc with a 125mm gun. Ammunition depots in India are not small.

Ammunition depots are sold quite naturally.
Albeit with a discount.

[PROXOR]

Just hypothetically: tomorrow the Ministry of Defense makes a decision to switch to 152mm caliber on the new T-14 tank. The T-72s are withdrawn from the train as the T-14s arrive. Question: WHAT "KOPEYKA" will the Defense Ministry fly into to create a mobilization stock of ammunition for 2500 tanks with a 152mm gun?

[Sancho_SP]

Taking into account the transfer of technology, the construction of factories and service staff, there is a price tag of 20 billions.

Plus, 1770 pieces in 7 years (it won't start before 23). Is it 250 tanks a year? And what plant in the world can do this?

[Yarhann]

UVZ)))) localizes the production of Leclercs for the needs of the Indian army))) at the same time they will teach them the technologies of handling hand tools, and of course, a vernier caliper will be given as a keepsake)))

[amr]

Quote: voyaka uh

"And if you make a rating according to intelligence?" ///
----
Such ratings exist:
1) number of Nobel prizes in natural sciences
2) the number of mathematical awards
3) university ranking
4) the number of patents and issued technical licenses

even without seeing the results, you understand who is ahead of the rest of the planet) !!!

[Kars]

Leclerc will not pass. The technical reliability is still very low.
It's good that India and China are in the offices, otherwise the Type 99 would already be in service there.
In place of India, I would not breed a variety. T 90 of the latest version is the very thing.
At least I would be on the open tender tests of the black panther, merkav and so on. I would look.

[surf dude]

As for the Merkava, it seems to me not entirely true. Merkava is not exported at all.

[Basarev]

So after all, you can lose this market. I am afraid that it is quite probable that Russia will one day lose all foreign markets, if it just hangs around limply.

[Alf]

The French will offer their Leclerc main battle tank to the Indians.

The French will offer the Indians puffier envelopes ...

[BedMax]

You can sell everything .. Just like the F 35 will be: in case of war, WiFI will be chopped off and that's it. Iron on the battlefield ..

[akims]

And the Indians are great. For this project, they will now have access to documentation (albeit incomplete) on all modern MBTs in the world. And even Serbian and Ukrainian did not disdain. Even if they don't buy anything, they will get the carrot. As for the armature: it became clear what, apart from air defense systems, Uncle Vova intrigued Mudyu during a recent trip. So that he does not climb, where not to nip)

[Yarhann]

a caliper will be sold to them, a drawing board and a ready-made)))) will be just right for their level of development

[boris epstein]

"... and the winner of the tender will have to transfer to the Indians and technology to produce tanks at Indian enterprises."
But on the sale of technology, the French have always stumbled.

[Yarhann]

the problem is not technology or the French. to localize the assembly of something, it is necessary to build factories and design bureaus with the French, both in management and in production. All this has already been done, and we went through with the PAK FA, and the assembly and localization of the Su 30. They are unable not only to assemble normally, but even to maintain the equipment in good working order, and even the dense type Mig21 Su24. And what do they localize there for me, in general, vague ideas - rivets and bolts at best.

[boris epstein]

Yes, this is exactly what happened with the localization of the production of Russian tanks. But the fact is that India does not make ANY complaints about RUSSIAN-made tanks, but recognizes the low qualifications of its own workforce, but does not want to abandon localization.

[Yarhann]

I just don't see the point in such localization, it's just unnecessary costs. Indians cannot do exact things according to the instructions. To mold something from clay or shit, sing a song, dance - that's what they can do.
In general, to be honest, I can’t even imagine the level of organization of their army precisely in terms of logistics and interaction of combat arms. The army is large but stupid, and how much and what kind of equipment you don't buy will not change anything, it's like the Arabs - those are also great warriors - the limit of mastering weapons is a rifleman, the limit of organizational interaction is a Hilux body stuffed with so-called warriors.
And most of all I was tempted when they were given the Nerpa nuclear submarine on lease. Although maybe half of our crew were there)