Military Review

Western Observer: The Russian President has gathered on the western borders about the same number of troops that Bush Jr. gathered in 2003 to invade Iraq

118

It is worth noting that more and more often in the foreign press, including with reference to well-known experts and politicians, materials began to appear that talk about the optional nature of Ukraine's accession to NATO. In Ukraine itself, such statements are treated more and more painfully, indicating that "the country continues to move in the chosen European and Euro-Atlantic direction." In the West, they make it clear that Ukraine, of course, can move, but only in NATO itself not everyone is waiting for it, or they are not waiting at all.


The major Western edition of Forbes published an article by Michael Krepon, where he says that "Ukraine does not need to join NATO." According to him, if Ukraine wants to guarantee its security in this way, then it is worth bringing to Kiev the idea that "there may be other options for security."

A Western observer writes that there are several reasons for the current crisis in Ukraine. One of these reasons is "the convictions of Vladimir Putin." But the second is the decision of US President George W. Bush to expand NATO far beyond the territories that the alliance occupied at the time of the collapse of the Soviet Union. The foreign author calls this expansion “going beyond the red borders, which Putin denotes today, taking into account Georgia and Ukraine”.

Forbes writes that at one time the American Ambassador to Moscow William Burns (and today he is the Director of the CIA) sent a personal telegram to the US State Department, indicating that the inclusion of Georgia and Ukraine in the list of countries for possible admission to the North Atlantic the alliance can lead to extremely negative consequences, primarily for the alliance itself. The author notes that today those warnings of Burns are really relevant, calling the decision of Bush Jr. regarding Ukraine and Georgia "an expensive mistake."

The author further writes that Vladimir Putin "demonstrates to NATO that his" red lines "are not empty words." According to Michael Krepon, "the Russian president has gathered on the western borders about the same number of troops that George W. Bush gathered in 2003 to invade Iraq":

Then there were about 170 thousand military personnel.

At the same time, the Western author is trying to explain to Ukraine that it is not at all necessary for it to join NATO for its own security. He is trying to promote the idea that in the end such accession can only worsen the situation, both for Ukraine and for the North Atlantic Alliance. According to Krepon, "Ukraine has been and remains a friendly state for NATO," but the alliance itself, having grown in number to 30 member states, "has lost its unity, originality and coordination of actions."
Photos used:
VKontakte / Ministry of Defense of Russia
118 comments
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  1. Pessimist22
    Pessimist22 17 December 2021 07: 16
    +11
    NATO is pushing Ukraine into the war, but the non-brothers, though stupid, understand very well what this will mean for them.
    1. Ka-52
      Ka-52 17 December 2021 07: 23
      -7
      Nobody pushes anyone. What kind of war, what kind of nonsense? It is beneficial for the Americans and Europeans to maintain the confrontation in Ukraine as a way of putting pressure on the Russian Federation. Just as it is beneficial for us to maintain the confrontation in Ukraine as a way to curb NATO's eastward expansion. What is your pretentious nonsense? This is geopolitics. In which Ukraine is given the place of the very same chiriya on zh @ ne
      1. Pessimist22
        Pessimist22 17 December 2021 07: 37
        +1
        This is you write nonsense, they purposefully pump Ukraine with weapons.
        1. atalef
          atalef 17 December 2021 07: 49
          -30
          Quote: Pessimist22
          This is you write nonsense, they purposefully pump Ukraine with weapons.

          You probably forgot a little that before the Crimea and the LPNR, Ukraine actually did not have an army, from the word in general.
          The volunteers fought.
          You led the situation to the fact that Ukraine began to arm itself, revived the Armed Forces and rushed to NATO.
          1. Edik
            Edik 17 December 2021 11: 06
            +4
            Where were you born Alexander? What are you talking nonsense here.
          2. Sanichsan
            Sanichsan 17 December 2021 12: 31
            +15
            Quote: atalef
            You probably forgot a little that before the Crimea and the LPNR, Ukraine actually did not have an army, from the word in general.

            sorry what? belay and the largest army in Europe in terms of numbers and with equipment from 3 military districts of the USSR, which you got after the collapse of the USSR, did you accidentally notice?
            Quote: atalef
            The volunteers fought.

            find an interview with Turchinov where he openly says why it was the Nazis from the punitive battalions who began to fight. the army refused to shoot at civilians, and some units simply went over to the side of those who disagreed with the new government, which had seized the country with the help of a coup.
            Quote: atalef
            You led the situation to the fact that Ukraine began to arm itself, revived the Armed Forces and rushed to NATO.

            well to go nuts! Western countries staged a coup d'etat in Ukraine, Western countries are arming the Nazis who seized power, but Russia is to blame for this?
            1. atalef
              atalef 17 December 2021 14: 18
              -8
              Quote: SanichSan
              sorry what?

              sorry - that.
              As reported in the text of the bill No. 2656 on the number of the Armed Forces of Ukraine for 2013, published on the website of the Ukrainian parliament on Thursday, the president proposes to approve the number of the Armed Forces of Ukraine as of December 31, 2013 in the amount of 168 201 people, including 125 thousand 482 military personnel.

              We have a bigger army.
              at the same time, in Russia, which is 3 times larger than Ukraine, had an army
              ... In October 2013, the Accounts Chamber, in its report on the audit of the financing of monetary allowances, reported that in 2010, when calculating the budget, the number of military personnel was determined at 1 people, in 116 - at 224 people. and in 2012 and 2013. - 1 million people.

              10 times more
              Quote: SanichSan
              find an interview with Turchinov

              you quote his words - you bring him - this is how it works
              Quote: SanichSan
              well to go nuts! Western countries staged a coup d'etat in Ukraine, Western countries are arming the Nazis who seized power, but Russia is to blame for this?

              Ie, according to you, neither the Crimea nor the Donbass have influenced the whole situation in any way?
              1. Sanichsan
                Sanichsan 17 December 2021 15: 46
                +5
                Quote: atalef
                The Armed Forces of Ukraine as of December 31, 2013 in the amount of 168 thousand 201 people, including 125 thousand 482 military personnel.

                is this "count no"? well, okay ... 160 thousand is considered not wassat and how many troops are there now on the western border of the Russian Federation? about 100 thousand? hmm ... but according to your own logic, it is even less than "consider no". bully so why militarization if there are no troops? belay
                Quote: atalef
                at the same time, in Russia, which is 3 times larger than Ukraine, had an army

                and? and the United States has even more. and China has even more than the United States. what did you want to say?
                Quote: atalef
                10 times more

                but in Crimea there were 15-17 thousand Russian troops, according to various sources, and in the Donbass there were none at all, against 160 thousand of the Armed Forces of Ukraine. yes
                Quote: atalef
                you quote his words - you bring him - this is how it works

                that is, you are not going to not only refute, but even check my thesis? means agree with its reliability. Good hi
                Quote: atalef
                Ie, according to you, neither the Crimea nor the Donbass have influenced the whole situation in any way?

                these are the consequences of what happened before that in Kiev and Odessa.
                do you want to say something? that it was necessary not to prevent the Ukrainian Nazis from burning and killing all those who disagree, as they did in Odessa?
                1. atalef
                  atalef 17 December 2021 19: 21
                  -7
                  Quote: SanichSan
                  is this "count no"? well, okay ... 160 thousand

                  military personnel - 125.000 - not all, or have you registered civilian accountants working for the army as paratroopers?
                  Quote: SanichSan
                  and how many troops are there now on the western border of the Russian Federation? about 100 thousand? hmm ... but according to your own logic, it is even less than "consider no

                  you have strange calculations or 100 battalion (combat-ready) groups with all the number of ukrainets.armii and said that they were equal.
                  Quote: SanichSan
                  and? and the United States has even more. and China has even more than the United States. what did you want to say?

                  that Ukraine actually had no army by 2013.
                  Quote: SanichSan
                  that is, you are not going to not only refute, but even check my thesis?

                  of course, you put it forward, you should also quote quotes, but this is OBS
                  Quote: SanichSan
                  means agree with its reliability. Good

                  no disagree. for the above reason
                  Quote: SanichSan
                  then the consequences of what happened before that in Kiev and Odessa.

                  This should not concern you, this is not in Russia, it is their state to sort it out on their own.
                  I wonder how you would behave if the same thing happened in Russia.
                  Quote: SanichSan
                  do you want to say something? that it was necessary not to prevent the Ukrainian Nazis from burning and killing all those who disagree, as they did in Odessa?

                  Strange, but what does the Crimea and Donbass have to do with it, after all, it seems like everything was quiet?
                2. Nazar
                  Nazar 18 December 2021 06: 27
                  +4
                  SanichSan - You are trying in vain to prove something to an Israeli laughing These guys with foam at the mouth will here justify and shield Bandera - as if there was no Babi Yar right? And apparently they are not in the know. that the Banderlog could do something similar again at any moment. But again, it is not the Banderaites who will be guilty, and it is not their Israeli defenders who will blame the Russians as always.
              2. Alex777
                Alex777 17 December 2021 15: 52
                +8
                You are in your style. laughing
                Apparently they immigrated from Ukraine?
                NATO's attempt to squeeze the Black Sea Fleet out of Sevastopol led to what we now have.
                If NATO did not expand to the East, everyone would be calmer.
                Ukraine would still receive cheap gas and trade with
                By Russia.
                But the States are the "winners" in the Cold War!
                They are the ones who "write the rules" by which everyone else should live! But not all the cat is a butter dish ...
                1. The comment was deleted.
                  1. Alex777
                    Alex777 17 December 2021 19: 25
                    +7
                    Quote: atalef
                    No one is forcibly driving anyone into NATO, this is the choice of the northern countries, this is their choice, you better do it so that they would run to you, and not you

                    lol
                    Tell Yanukovych why Maidan threw him off. laughing
                    And the poor fellow of all, us, postponed the signing of the Association Agreement with the EU. Not only did they get thrown off, they almost killed me.
                    You, with your knowledge of history, have nothing to do on the forum. yes
                    1. atalef
                      atalef 17 December 2021 19: 57
                      -8
                      Quote: Alex777
                      Tell Yanukovych why Maidan threw him off.

                      after that, there have already been 2 elections in Ukraine, they would like to return - they would choose the pro-Russian ones. apparently did not want to.
                      Quote: Alex777
                      And the poor fellow of all, us, postponed the signing of the Association Agreement with the EU

                      he could not bear it. he refused to sign.
                      1. Alex777
                        Alex777 17 December 2021 19: 59
                        +4
                        Quote: atalef
                        he could not bear it. he refused to sign.

                        Do not smack nonsense, it hurts.
                        Quote: atalef
                        After that, there have already been 2 elections in Ukraine, we would like to return - we would choose pro-Russian ones. apparently did not want to.

                        You have no talent for anti-Russian agitation.
                        Change your profession.
                        And remember about Odessa more often.
                        There, among those who were burned alive, there were Jews too.
                        And no one in the EU and NATO was outraged.
                        As no one is outraged by the flagrant violation of Assange's rights.
                      2. atalef
                        atalef 17 December 2021 20: 02
                        -6
                        Quote: Alex777
                        You have no talent for anti-Russian agitation.

                        I don’t need it.
                        Quote: Alex777
                        Change your profession.

                        why ? Energy is a wonderful area of ​​application of my knowledge. remarkably paid.
                        Quote: Alex777
                        And remember about Odessa more often. There were also Jews among the burned ones.

                        Yes, Jews in general always climb everywhere.
                        Solidarize with everyone in a row, pants to tear.
                        I have my own opinion, others have the right to their own - as well as the consequences for their actions.
                      3. Pin
                        Pin 18 December 2021 03: 11
                        +8
                        And what are you, activist, doing in Russia, if the combination "... with you" constantly appears in the comments? Well, go "to yourself", in a monkey madhouse, smart guy. Ugh a hundred times at you.
          3. abc_alex
            abc_alex 17 December 2021 15: 45
            +16
            Quote: atalef
            You led the situation to the fact that Ukraine began to arm itself, revived the Armed Forces and rushed to NATO.

            Seriously?
            Do you think that there are fools without memory here on the forum? Here are just the brightest events.

            1995-1996. First Chechen War. Where did Sashka Bilya go there to shoot the Russians? You haven't paid for this bastard yet. Since then even our defense industry did not consider the Ukrainians as strangers, fully revealing all the secrets of new systems and conducting joint development. Even the border between the countries was not clearly demarcated. And you already hated Russia and the Russians to the point that you were ready to kill and torture Russian guys, who, I remind you then, did nothing. And when these creatures returned from Chechnya to Ukraine, did someone condemn them in your Ukraine?
            2006 year. "Battle of the Lighthouses". Whose nationalists staged races around the Crimean facilities of the Russian Black Sea Fleet? Who demanded "turn our tse"? Whose security officials broke the seals at the hydrographic facilities of the Russian Black Sea Fleet in Crimea and actually seized them? And whose government, having in its hands an object-by-object list of property of the Russian Black Sea Fleet in Crimea, tacitly encouraged this gross violation of the Treaty of Friendship. Only after that, I remind you again, the command of the Russian Black Sea Fleet ordered to take the "lighthouses" under armed guard.
            And which country fundamentally prohibited the modernization and renewal of the Russian Black Sea Fleet's naval personnel?
            And don't lie. Ukraine's "Euro-Atlantic course" was chosen, voiced and legislatively enshrined by Ukraine much earlier than even 2014.
            In 2005, Ukraine and NATO began an intensified dialogue on Kiev's entry into the ranks of the alliance. Secretary General of the North Atlantic bloc Jaap de Hoop Scheffer announced this at a press conference after the meeting of the NATO-Ukraine commission at the level of foreign ministers in Vilnius.
            In 2006, Yushchenko approved a plan for Ukraine's integration into NATO, with quarterly ministerial reports on its implementation.
            In March 2008. The President and Prime Minister of Ukraine sent an official letter to the NATO Secretary General requesting Ukraine to join the NATO Membership Action Plan (MAP). A similar appeal was addressed to the Chancellor of Germany and the President of France. At the April NATO summit in Bucharest, the solution to this issue was postponed to December, and the final Declaration confirmed the prospect of Ukraine's membership in the Alliance. At the December meeting of NATO foreign ministers, Ukraine was offered a new instrument of cooperation - the Annual National Program.
            I will notice. This was done before the "888" war. Even then, at the level of the leadership, Ukraine was consciously going to hostile actions against Russia, even then it was dragging NATO to our doorstep, and even then it considered itself in the right to inflict direct economic and political damage to Russia directly and indirectly to our security.
            And this was not done by political freaks like our Zhirik. This was done by those politicians whom the first Maidan jumped on. For which a huge part of the "little Ukrainians" fiercely drowned. And it was precisely this "get a view of Moscow" and "what NATu wanted" did not raise objections among the Ukrainians. Yushchenko flew downhill solely due to economic mistakes.

            But when he left, he also committed another pronounced anti-Russian act causing direct economic and military-political damage to Russia - he pushed through the Rada the refusal of the Russian Black Sea Fleet to be based in Crimea. The construction of a new base for the Russian Black Sea Fleet alone would require urgent expenses from Russia in the amount of at least $ 5 billion. And the relocation of the fleet with all the auxiliary structures would require about 100 billion. Ukraine caused economic damage to Russia by direct action. Otherwise, it would have been about the elimination of the Russian Black Sea Fleet in general by 2017. Throw off the address of the site on which the joyful Ukrainians put up a mocking counter how much time is left before the withdrawal of the Russian fleet? Now it was removed so as not to disgrace the whole world, but there was a time when this counter was terribly proud of the Svidomo part of the population of Ukraine. Well, of course! They managed to harm Russia! Such a joy.
            Only an accident - the outbreak of the US wars in the Middle East, forced the new government of Ukraine to extend the lease in exchange for a discount on gas.

            So you don't need this "leave us alone", or "it was you who forced us." From the very moment of gaining independence, Ukraine has behaved like a state hostile to Russia, believing that it can inflict direct damage on Russia with impunity. And it doesn't matter what it looks like - whether in the form of non-payment for gas and theft from a transit pipe, or in the form of an attempt to deprive Russia of the Black Sea Fleet.
            Ukraine was left alone 30 years ago. And the first thing that we received in response was a landing of bastards killing our guys and a refusal to pay for energy resources.
            1. atalef
              atalef 17 December 2021 19: 37
              -8
              Quote: abc_alex
              Do you think that there are fools without memory here on the forum? Here are just the brightest events.

              1995-1996. First Chechen War. Where did Sashka Bilya go there to shoot the Russians?

              I wonder what this has to do with 2014? At the time, Kuchma, Putin's best friend, was President. Why did Russia at least not demand the extradition of this Bilyy?
              Quote: abc_alex
              And you already hated Russia and the Russians to the point that you were ready to kill and torture Russian guys, who, I remind you then, did nothing.

              I hate nobody, especially Russians and Russia.
              Quote: abc_alex
              Whose security officials broke the seals at the hydrographic facilities of the Russian Black Sea Fleet in Crimea and actually seized them? And whose government, having in its hands an object-by-object list of property of the Russian Black Sea Fleet in Crimea, tacitly encouraged this gross violation of the Treaty of Friendship.

              Kuchma probably, well, certainly not Poroshenko and not Zelensky.
              Quote: abc_alex
              In 2006, Yushchenko approved a plan for Ukraine's integration into NATO, with quarterly ministerial reports on its implementation.

              And that 7 If it's their choice, it's their choice.
              Ukraine is a sovereign state. and not the Kemsk parish of Russia.
              Quote: abc_alex
              I will notice. This was done before the "888" war. Even then, at the level of the leadership, Ukraine was consciously going to hostile actions against Russia, even then it was dragging NATO to our doorstep, and even then it considered itself in the right to inflict direct economic and political damage to Russia directly and indirectly to our security.

              come on, what is the damage?
              Quote: abc_alex
              But when he left, he also committed another pronounced anti-Russian act causing direct economic and military-political damage to Russia - he pushed through the Rada the refusal of the Russian Black Sea Fleet to be based in Crimea. Only the construction of a new base for the Russian Black Sea Fleet would require urgent expenses from Russia in the amount of at least $ 5 billion.

              leaving. that is, what was then Yanukovych - it does not bother you, then - each state has the right to decide whether to keep a military base of another state on its territory or not.
              Have you denied this right to Ukraine?
              Quote: abc_alex
              And the relocation of the fleet with all auxiliary structures would require about 100 billion

              yes even a thousand billion - you are in a foreign country or are friends so that you would not want to be removed or build at your place.
              Quote: abc_alex
              ... Otherwise, it would have been about the elimination of the Russian Black Sea Fleet in general by 2017. Throw off the address of the site on which the joyful Ukrainians put up a mocking counter how much time is left before the withdrawal of the Russian fleet?

              Why do I need it ? Some Ukrainians did not want the base of a foreign state on their territory - you see this as a problem 7 I don’t.
              It doesn't bother you that some of the Japanese are in favor of the withdrawal of American bases from their territory.
              Quote: abc_alex
              From the very moment of gaining independence, Ukraine behaves like a state hostile to Russia, which believes that it can inflict direct damage on Russia with impunity.

              strange, I would not say that.
              And if they do, then it seems to me, given the oldest ties between the two peoples, that at least both sides are to blame for this. You have never listened to their claims against Russia7 Maybe there were fair ones too?
              Quote: abc_alex
              Ukraine was left alone 30 years ago

              this is definitely not true.
              Quote: abc_alex
              And the first thing that we received in response was a landing of bastards killing our guys and a refusal to pay for energy resources.


              ??
              1. abc_alex
                abc_alex 18 December 2021 00: 41
                +4
                Quote: atalef
                I hate nobody, especially Russians and Russia.

                Sorry if I was harsh. But Ukraine is not a foreign land to me. My grandfather died in 1942 near Kharkov. And my wife is half Ukrainian, her father, the grandfather of my sons, is from Vinnitsa, and was born in the village. Bar.

                Quote: atalef
                I wonder what this has to do with 2014? At the time, Kuchma, Putin's best friend, was President. Why did Russia at least not demand the extradition of this Bilyy?


                And life is not cut into frames like film. And if the Russians do not remind of something, it does not mean that they do not remember it.
                And in Ukraine, along with the president, is the population changing? Is it overpopulated again and there are Ukrainians of Kuchma, Ukrainians of Yushchenko, Ukrainians of Zelensky? Or maybe the fact is that Ukrainians themselves are accustomed to the idea that shitting Moscow is their sacred right? And what are the Russians obliged to endure and keep silent? Yes, they did not tolerate it under EBN. They believed that the "beaten" were geeks. And the Ukrainians themselves will punish them not like that, but that way. And not punished. And I remember very well how a crowd of Ukrainians roared with delight on the orange Maidan when Tymoshenko declared: "For 200 years Ukraine has been a serf peasant in Russia, it's time to put an end to this!" And they didn't throw a rotten orange at her. She was loved by all of Ukraine.
                And you don't need this "Putin's best friend". I don't care who is Putin's best friend. I know that on the hands of Ukrainian Natsiks the blood of Russian guys, from the time of the 1st Chechen. And there they went to kill the Russians. When there were still no contradictions between the countries.

                Quote: atalef
                Kuchma probably, well, certainly not Poroshenko and not Zelensky.

                Yushchenko. And again: the story is not cut into pieces by "like here" and "not like it here." On the Orange Maidan, the country was politically divided in half into "Westerners" and "Easterners". And the confrontation of mentalities began. Yanukovych, perhaps, was a complete rubbish, but with him the "Westerners" destroyed the political force of the "Easterners" in the person of the Party of Regions. So the roots of 2014 lie on the Orange Maidan. And the roots of the orange Maidan are in Kuchma's politics. And the roots of Kuchma's policy are in the slogans with which the self-styled deceived the population of Ukraine during the collapse of the USSR.

                Quote: atalef
                And that 7 If it's their choice, it's their choice.
                Ukraine is a sovereign state. and not the Kemsk parish of Russia.


                If Ukraine considers it possible to ignore the interests of Russia, then Russia has the right to ignore the interests of Ukraine.

                Quote: atalef
                come on, what is the damage?

                For example, economic. For almost 10 years Ukraine did not pay or did not pay in full for gas supplies from Russia. Even at extremely discounted prices. At the same time, it consistently received millions of dollars in advance from Russia for transit from year to year. By 2000, Ukraine's only recognized gas debts reached $ 1,5 billion. For the then Russia, where teachers and doctors did not receive their salaries for six months, and the visit of the IMF Managing Director was highlighted as an event of the first magnitude, because the budget was empty, hundreds of millions of dollars unpaid by Ukraine were a colossal amount. Or have you forgotten how the Tu-160 that Ukraine got to Russia got to Russia?

                Quote: atalef
                leaving. that is, what was then Yanukovych - it does not bother you, then - each state has the right to decide whether to keep a military base of another state on its territory or not.
                Have you denied this right to Ukraine?


                Yanukovych would have been in his place. Orange Maidan and the "third round" were actually state. a coup in favor of Yushchenko. I did NOT like Yanukovych, but he was never a protege of Russia or a pro-Russian politician. It's just that Yushchenko disgraced himself in the place of the president, and in that situation, the coming to power of "Easterners" was inevitable.
                Russia has the right to take care of its security by any means available to it. For example, taking the example of the United States. Are you denying Russia the right to do this?

                Quote: atalef
                yes even a thousand billion - you are in a foreign country or are friends so that you would not want to be removed or build at your place.


                Now in his own. It turned out to be easier.

                Quote: atalef
                Some Ukrainians did not want the base of a foreign state on their territory - you see this as a problem 7 I don’t.
                It doesn't bother you that some of the Japanese are in favor of the withdrawal of American bases from their territory.


                The withdrawal of US bases from Okinawa (by the way, there is no talk about this and the US right to deploy bases in Japan is not disputed by anyone in the Japanese government) will not change the strategic situation for the US in the Far East. And the withdrawal of the fleet from the Crimea would mean its elimination. This means a strategic change. For the United States, this would be comparable to the elimination of the fleet in the Pacific Ocean.
                If Ukraine decided to harm Russia on such a scale, Russia responded in an equivalent way. You cannot harm another state and hope that it will pass with impunity. The United States, in response to such crap, would have smashed Ukraine into the trash like Iraq.

                Quote: atalef
                And if they do, then it seems to me, given the oldest ties between the two peoples, that at least both sides are to blame for this. You have never listened to their claims against Russia7 Maybe there were fair ones too?

                I listened many times. Can you cite them, these claims? Have you ever heard them in their worded form? Not that they produced after 2014, but the period of that time, for example, 2010? I see you are not very much in the subject. Superficially broadcast "universal" narratives. Let's take a closer look at "their claims to Russia" at the time.
                Get started.

                Quote: atalef
                this is definitely not true.

                This is EXACTLY the TRUTH. Where do you even write that from? I just need to know how competent you are at all and what exactly you need to explain.

                Quote: atalef
                ??

                Read above.
                1. Living7111972
                  Living7111972 18 December 2021 23: 26
                  0
                  but do not be fooled, it may be that there is something close to us in Ukraine, and our children already know who our friend is, who is our enemy. My son is at the academy on the 5th year after the cadet, I communicate with the guys. I will not say what they say especially, but they already have something pre-revolutionary ... They do not perceive the former Union as either their own, or as equals, without regrets about the past.
                  The world is changing. Maybe someone is somewhere and a brother, but not always and not everywhere.
                  Maybe for the best. We need a bit of healthy nationalism.
          4. FrankyStein
            FrankyStein 18 December 2021 00: 55
            +2
            And you have forgotten a lot that Russia was given an ultimatum to withdraw the fleet from Sevastopol, from its house, and invited staff members. It would even be clear to a fool that it was only a matter of time before NATO planes would appear there. That three skins were tore from Russian ships during the passage of the strait and only accompanied. And now they demand free shipping, we are for sho, right? To call the maniacal desire of Ukrainians to the West and in NATO a consequence of Russian actions is to pretend to be a fool, or to take others for fools. The anti-Russian vector began much long ago, and the coup, de facto, meant the advancement of NATO and the entire west to east. And it was Crimea that became the slap in the face that quickly lowered them to the ground and forced them to scratch their turnips.
            Was it the national gangs that fought? This rabble played war, hung around, and interfered with his military, it came to the point that they arranged post-fire among themselves.
          5. Cb master
            Cb master 19 December 2021 22: 01
            0
            That is, until 2014 you didn’t want to leave us and join NATO? And who didn’t sing Moskalyak to Gilyak?
        2. Ka-52
          Ka-52 20 December 2021 06: 59
          0
          You write this nonsense, they purposefully pump Ukraine with weapons

          You at least sometimes get off the podium, demagogue-patriot. What is sent by the United States to Ukraine will not be enough for half an hour of combined arms combat.
          For half a year of absence from this resource, I see the situation has not changed - as before, either ultra-patriotic antics or liberal all-propalism are held in high esteem. But not a shift towards objectivity and healthy thinking. request
      2. The comment was deleted.
        1. Aviator_
          Aviator_ 17 December 2021 08: 12
          +22
          so that these former republics of the USSR and the CMEA countries remain friendly and loyal to Russia

          Well, make sure that the former population of the Gaza Strip remains friendly and loyal to Israel.
          1. atalef
            atalef 17 December 2021 14: 00
            -9
            Quote: Aviator_
            Well, make sure that the former population of the Gaza Strip remains friendly and loyal to Israel

            and we with them were once one state?
            remind me when?
            1. Aviator_
              Aviator_ 17 December 2021 19: 03
              +6
              Your case is worse. You climbed into their territory and continue to shoot them for decades. They, of course, are not sugar (and who will like this?), But you yourself are prolonging the endless war. Is it really so amusing?
        2. URAL72
          URAL72 17 December 2021 08: 35
          +18
          it was necessary to make sure that these former republics of the USSR and the CMEA countries remained friendly and loyal to Russia, but Russia somehow behaved strangely

          Stop pouring it. Your people are famous for the fact that they know how to skillfully lie and play around. But how has Russia spoiled relations with Hungary, the Czech Republic, Bulgaria, Slovakia? How did she threaten Slovenia, Croatia, Macedonia, Montenegro? We are not Poles, but they consider us eternal enemies. We fought with Persia and the Ottomans for hundreds of years, but today we have good relations, although the Turks are in NATO. Ukraine generally lived thanks to raw materials at low prices and the supply of complex products to Russia, incl. military. But the West arranged the Maidan, then the second. Now Kiev is reaping the fruits of its anti-Russian policy. It's the same with Tbilisi. Putin showed that Russia is no longer a whipping boy. And you just misinterpret the facts, distort the chronology.
          1. The comment was deleted.
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              1. alekseykabanets
                alekseykabanets 17 December 2021 09: 52
                -7
                Quote: URAL72
                Russia did not betray anyone. The ruling elite betrayed both the USSR and Russia.

                Let's call a spade a spade, the ruling clique at that time betrayed both the USSR and Russia, and the OVD, and CMEA, and the friendly regimes of Africa, Asia, and America. Do you think all these countries will remember this? The betrayal of the USSR and Russia is less visible to them, and the betrayal of their countries is more visible.
                PS Russophobes and liberals are those who today lead the Russian Federation, your current idols. For it is said, "judge by works." And we all see their deeds, this is the continuing degradation of the country, the destruction of the population, the destruction of medicine and education.
                1. Alexey RA
                  Alexey RA 17 December 2021 11: 44
                  +2
                  Quote: aleksejkabanets
                  Let's call a spade a spade, the ruling clique at that time betrayed both the USSR and Russia, and the OVD, and the CMEA, and the friendly regimes of Africa, Asia, and America.

                  And how did the USSR betray the same Hungary, which in 1989 abandoned communist ideas and opened the border with Austria? What, again it was necessary to arrange 1956?

                  Let's call a spade a spade - the so-called socialist camp was the first to run to the West.
                  1. alekseykabanets
                    alekseykabanets 17 December 2021 11: 52
                    +1
                    Quote: Alexey RA
                    Let's call a spade a spade - the so-called socialist camp was the first to run to the West.

                    The USSR began to actively fall apart since 1985, did you not notice this? And no less actively your idols encouraged the transition of the "socialist camp" to the enemy. More precisely, the countries of the "socialist camp" were sold to the West in order to be able to carry out criminal privatization and calmly export the stolen billions to the West. Can you refute?
                  2. atalef
                    atalef 17 December 2021 19: 40
                    -2
                    Quote: Alexey RA
                    And how did the USSR betray the same Hungary, which in 1989 abandoned communist ideas and opened the border with Austria? What, again it was necessary to arrange 1956?

                    you yourself answered your own question.
                    Everybody had the idea of ​​communism in their throats, everybody was already sick.
                    1. alekseykabanets
                      alekseykabanets 17 December 2021 19: 50
                      0
                      Quote: atalef
                      Everybody had the idea of ​​communism in their throats, everybody was already sick.

                      And how are you now, without the "ideas of communism"? Is there enough sausage? Doesn't public property put off pockets? Are you not afraid of retribution for what you have done?
                      Quote: atalef
                      you yourself answered your own question.

                      Please, express your thoughts more clearly. What and what question did I answer?
                      1. atalef
                        atalef 17 December 2021 19: 54
                        -2
                        Quote: aleksejkabanets
                        And how do you like it now, without the "ideas of communism"?

                        I feel great at all
                        Quote: aleksejkabanets
                        Is there enough sausage?

                        and that all happiness is in sausage?
                        Quote: aleksejkabanets
                        Doesn't public property put off pockets?

                        I have 7 I wonder what kind of public property I grabbed in Israel?
                        Quote: aleksejkabanets
                        Are you not afraid of retribution for what you have done?

                        I definitely don't.
                        Quote: aleksejkabanets
                        Please, express your thoughts more clearly. What and what question did I answer?

                        Nutipa do not want communism - we will introduce tanks again.
                        That's why they love you.
                        Good luck.
                      2. alekseykabanets
                        alekseykabanets 17 December 2021 20: 10
                        -1
                        Quote: atalef
                        Nutipa do not want communism - we will introduce tanks again.

                        You are misinterpreting the ideas of communism.
                        Quote: atalef
                        I have 7 I wonder what public property I grabbed in Israel

                        I didn't know you were from Israel.
                        Quote: atalef
                        and that all happiness is in sausage?

                        For many, happiness is measured by the fullness of the feeder. Glad if you're not one of those.
                      3. atalef
                        atalef 17 December 2021 20: 35
                        -2
                        Quote: aleksejkabanets
                        You are misinterpreting the ideas of communism.

                        Your version? wink
                        Quote: aleksejkabanets
                        I didn't know you were from Israel.

                        Green because (this is ironic) - only one year on the site
                        Quote: aleksejkabanets
                        For many, happiness is measured by the fullness of the feeder. Glad if you're not one of those.

                        I like steaks more laughing
                      4. alekseykabanets
                        alekseykabanets 17 December 2021 20: 45
                        -1
                        Quote: atalef
                        I like steaks more

                        Well, who doesn't like steaks.)))
                        Quote: atalef
                        Your version?

                        All this is long and difficult. Start Here: "The Communist Manifesto"
                        K. Marx - F. Engels (1848) Communism is not the seizure of foreign lands. And agree with me, even the late USSR was never an empire with its colonies.
                      5. atalef
                        atalef 17 December 2021 20: 49
                        -2
                        Quote: aleksejkabanets
                        All this is long and difficult. Start Here: "The Communist Manifesto"
                        K. Marx - F. Engels (1848) Communism is not the seizure of foreign lands.

                        so what and what and the communists have always diverged in word and deed.
                        Quote: aleksejkabanets
                        And agree with me, even the late USSR was never an empire with its colonies.

                        when there was the late USSR there were no colonies at all.
                        The fact that Europe had a colonial legacy - alas. The USSR in the era of colonial conquests simply did not exist, but on the topic of wars of conquest - the USSR attacked Finland, Poland, the Baltic States, etc.
                        And as for the colonies, of course, we are talking about newcolonies - read today's statement by the Russian Foreign Ministry - what he wants to do with the countries of the former USSR, denying them sovereignty and not being ashamed to declare it.
            2. Black cowl
              Black cowl 17 December 2021 11: 39
              0
              Quote: aleksejkabanets
              Quote: URAL72
              But how has Russia spoiled relations with Hungary, the Czech Republic, Bulgaria, Slovakia? How did she threaten Slovenia, Croatia, Macedonia, Montenegro?

              What happened to your memory? Those that betrayed the CMEA countries - ATS! Betrayal is not forgotten.

              And what exactly did Russia betray? By the fact that the Union collapsed? Don't talk nonsense. Russia is only to blame for trying to pursue an independent policy.
              1. alekseykabanets
                alekseykabanets 17 December 2021 11: 55
                -3
                Quote: Cowl black
                And what exactly did Russia betray? By the fact that the Union collapsed? Don't talk nonsense.

                Above answered.
                Quote: Cowl black
                Russia is only to blame for trying to pursue an independent policy.

                Having become a "raw material appendage" of more economically developed countries? Is this an independent policy in your opinion?
            3. Alex777
              Alex777 17 December 2021 19: 41
              -1
              Quote: aleksejkabanets
              What happened to your memory?

              This you need to refresh your memory, on whose side the above countries fought in the Second World War. Except for Yugoslavia.
              And Yugoslavia was the leader of the non-aligned movement.
          2. atalef
            atalef 17 December 2021 14: 10
            -5
            Quote: URAL72
            Stop pouring it. Your people are famous for the fact that they know how to skillfully lie and play

            or ask uncomfortable questions wink
            Quote: URAL72
            But how has Russia spoiled relations with Hungary, the Czech Republic, Bulgaria, Slovakia?

            Well, this is a long story, well, let's start at least with the introduction of troops in the USSR.
            Quote: URAL72
            Bulgaria,


            After the collapse of the USSR, Russia threw Bulgaria 7 Bulgaria as an unnecessary rag.
            There were enough comments from the Bulgarians themselves on this topic.
            Quote: URAL72
            How did she threaten Slovenia, Croatia, Macedonia, Montenegro?

            I don’t know about Slovenia. with the Croats - of course the support of Serbia. in Montenegro - have you heard of the coup attempt by the organized GRU? after which there were arrests and expulsion of diplomats. and after that Montenegro rushed to NATo?
            Quote: URAL72
            We are not Poles, but they consider us eternal enemies.

            okay, at least mutually. There was a reason.
            and about the Poles - read the comments on VO - well, just love and respect from each comment
            Quote: URAL72
            We fought for hundreds of years with Persia and the Ottomans, but today we have good relations, although the Turks are in NATO

            with Turkey? not worth telling stories.
            Quote: URAL72
            Ukraine generally lived thanks to raw materials at low prices and the supply of complex products to Russia, incl. military.

            Well, why isn't she dying now?
            Does it have a minimum wage even higher than yours?
            Quote: URAL72
            Now Kiev is reaping the fruits of its anti-Russian policy.

            you nurtured anti-Russian policy.
            Or do you think that Crimea and Donbass arose by themselves without any participation of Russia?
            then - Maidan. it's their own business. It is their state for them to sort out. What do you care?
            Quote: URAL72
            Same thing with Tbilisi


            of course - now Georgia is your enemy.
            Quote: URAL72
            Putin showed that Russia is no longer a whipping boy.


            and he never was. The only question is - what are the results?

            Quote: URAL72
            And you are just misinterpreting facts, distorting chronology.

            Seriously . Well, let's go by dates. Specifically.
          3. ramzay21
            ramzay21 17 December 2021 20: 09
            +2
            But how has Russia spoiled relations with Hungary, the Czech Republic, Bulgaria, Slovakia?

            Gorbachev and his team betrayed the ideas of socialism, on which allied relations with these countries were based and allowed the secret services of NATO countries to get into these countries and topple people friendly to us at the head of these countries and put people who hate us at the head of these countries. These people who came to power actively promoted anti-Russian propaganda, which was actively helped by Gorbachev, Yeltsin and Putin.
            In relations with the Poles, for example, they unleashed a fake concocted by the Goebbels department about the execution of Polish officers by the NKVD, even Churchill, who hated the USSR and always looked for a reason to embroil us with the Poles, did not believe in this nonsense, but this topic was actively discussed by our leadership, including Putin.
            Try to change the Mexican government to an anti-American one and you will see the reaction of a strong country, in Cuba they reacted very harshly and were ready to go to war with us, and if Khrushchev hadn’t backed down they would not have stopped.
            We fought with Persia and the Ottomans for hundreds of years, but today we have good relations, although the Turks are in NATO.

            The Turks will stab you in the back more than once, and for the money they earn on our tourists, on our construction and exporting vegetables to us.
            It's the same with Tbilisi. Putin showed that Russia is no longer a whipping boy. And you are just misinterpreting facts, distorting chronology.

            In the situation with Georgia, a smart and strong leader would take Tbilisi and catch Saakashvili and all his accomplices in the attack on our peacekeepers, judge them and put a pro-Russian government at the head of Georgia, with the subsequent integration of Georgia into the Eurasian Economic Community and the CSTO.
            But since Putin is not like that, he did not take Tbilisi, but took the territories not controlled by Russia for maintenance, and turned all Georgians against Russia.

            The same thing happened in Ukraine, instead of putting pro-Russian people at the head of Ukraine, Putin calmly watched how the Russian and Ukrainian oligarchs staged a coup in Ukraine and how Bandera’s come to power in this country, and instead of preventing this Putin took the stupidest step , he takes Crimea away and thereby sets up all Ukrainians against Russia, which of course was used by those whom he calls our partners.

            In the entire current situation, both in Russia and in relations with other countries, only Putin and his team are to blame, they have full power and it is they who make all decisions and must be held accountable.
      3. Andrei Nikolaevich
        Andrei Nikolaevich 17 December 2021 08: 50
        +2
        I am afraid that for Ukraine such a state - "between a rock and a hard place" will be permanent. So much for "nezalezhnosti".
      4. Mikhail3
        Mikhail3 17 December 2021 09: 29
        +1
        Quote: Ka-52
        Nobody pushes anyone. What kind of war, what kind of nonsense? It is beneficial for the Americans and Europeans to maintain the confrontation in Ukraine as a way of putting pressure on the Russian Federation. Just as it is beneficial for us to maintain the confrontation in Ukraine as a way to curb NATO's eastward expansion. What is your pretentious nonsense? This is geopolitics. In which Ukraine is given the place of the very same chiriya on zh @ ne

        For the West, more specifically for the United States, there is no more profitable scenario than war and Russia's occupation of all or part of Ukraine. The Sumerians have made great friends - these friends go to bed and start the day by wondering if the Russian troops finally attacked Nenku? Or maybe there are already thousands of people killed? And at the same time, they blink dreamily. And the tortured ?! Tortured, tortured, dead as cruelly as possible ?! It should be so !!
        It is these friends that are needed. That their dream was, anyhow you died, and better painfully. This development of events mobilizes all the mechanisms of the West, which have now gone to pieces in the absence of a real threat.
        Socialist China has an undeniable advantage over all Western countries in terms of economics, and peacefully will soon trample everyone. Economically, neither the United States nor Europe can oppose it with absolutely nothing. And the damned Russia is covering up China militarily (being a capitalist country, this is stupid for us, but there’s no way out, the West arranged it all by itself, with their brains it’s just a catastrophe there).
        So the West needs to organize a super-powerful army and start an openly military confrontation as soon as possible. Nothing will help this goal like REAL EVIDENCE of Russian aggression. Shafts from the dead Ukrainians are a bright dream of the West.
      5. conel96
        conel96 19 December 2021 00: 02
        0
        The main question is, whose "ne?"
    2. Silver bullet
      Silver bullet 17 December 2021 07: 30
      +14
      More terrible than 170 thousand groupings for NATO members and zelibobik are the words "Darkest" at the last two press conferences about the LPR, DPR, where he twice said "Unrecognized yet!"
      1. atalef
        atalef 17 December 2021 07: 42
        -17
        Quote: Silver bullet
        where he twice said "Unrecognized yet!"

        Well, they admit it, well?
        It will be just a gift for Ukraine.
        Abkhazia and Ossetia were recognized?
        Recognized.
        What happened to Georgia from this? Nothing, it is now openly cooperating with NATO and will enter NATO and no one will interfere with this, the same will happen with Ukraine - recognize Russia as LDNR - this actually secures the border and unties the hands of Ukraine in all foreign policy.
        1. syndicalist
          syndicalist 17 December 2021 08: 09
          +4
          Moreover, if Ukrainian politicians were consistent, they themselves should have long ago recognized these territorial losses and, thus, removed the only barrier to joining NATO.
          1. military_cat
            military_cat 17 December 2021 12: 38
            -2
            This barrier does not exist. It seemed to me that this issue had already been sorted out - https://topwar.ru/186592-nato-ne-schitaet-vojnu-v-donbasse-prichinoj-otkaza-kievu-stat-chlenom-aljansa.html
            1. syndicalist
              syndicalist 17 December 2021 16: 36
              0
              Formally, it does not exist, but in fact no one will accept Ukraine into NATO as long as it has a territorial problem with Russia.
        2. prior
          prior 17 December 2021 11: 14
          0
          It will be just a gift for Ukraine.

          It was then, after the recognition of the independence of the republics of Donbass within the boundaries of the referendum on independence, and the beginning of the operation to recognize the independence of the republics by Ukraine, you cannot call it a gift ...
        3. Tatyana Pershina
          Tatyana Pershina 17 December 2021 14: 16
          +1
          By the way, the USSR was recognized:
          1923 - Germany, Iran. Mongolia, Poland, Turkey, Finland;
          1924 - 12 countries, including England, France, Italy. China;
          1925 Japan
          1926 - three more countries;
          1933 - USA, Spain;
          1934 - Hungary, Romania, Czech Republic, Bulgaria;
          1935 - Belgium;
          1940 - Yugoslavia.
          So what? There were no trade and political relations with these countries?
        4. abc_alex
          abc_alex 18 December 2021 00: 42
          +1
          Quote: atalef
          What happened to Georgia from this? Nothing, it is now openly cooperating with NATO and will enter NATO and no one will interfere with this, the same will happen with Ukraine - recognize Russia as LDNR - this actually secures the border and unties the hands of Ukraine in all foreign policy.

          She and before that openly cooperated with NATO.
    3. The comment was deleted.
      1. Moskovit
        Moskovit 17 December 2021 07: 42
        +27
        I think the Israelis are better off keeping quiet on this issue. How much has Israel tore from its neighbors and what a booth it has been arranging in Syria so far.
        1. atalef
          atalef 17 December 2021 07: 53
          -20
          Quote: Moskovit
          I think the Israelis are better off keeping quiet on this issue. How much has Israel tore from its neighbors and what a booth it has been arranging in Syria so far.

          They forgot to ask you.
          by the way for those who are in the tank. Syria started the war and got it according to the Sousals, including losing territory,
          What Israel is doing in Syria is not only a source of concern to Russia and the Foreign Ministry. on the contrary, the Russian authorities each time emphasize the excellent interaction and mutual understanding between the IDF and the Russian wax group in Syria.
          Do you consider yourself smarter than the Ministry of Foreign Affairs and the Ministry of Defense of the Russian Federation?
          1. just exp
            just exp 17 December 2021 08: 37
            +9
            no, you started the war by slaughtering peaceful Arabs in 1947.
          2. Moskovit
            Moskovit 17 December 2021 08: 49
            +17
            So they forgot to ask you about Ukraine. It is clear that what Israel did and is doing in the BV is different (c). Bombs, kills, fights. This is called safety concerns. Moreover, not a single Jew remained in the surrounding countries (I do not take any isolated cases). As soon as Russia took care of its safety and about the Russians, it started right there. Crimea was transferred by an absolutely voluntary decision to Ukraine and was in the hands of an armless Ukraine for 57 years. And 80% of Russians live there. Nobody asked the Crimeans if they wanted to go to Ukraine. When they were finally asked, it turned out that democracy does not work in these places. Like cellular communication in the taiga. How many relatives lived in the Golan Heights, maybe on the western bank of the Jordan? But my aunt and uncle live in Simferopol. Do you feel the difference?
            I am not smarter than the Ministry of Defense and the Ministry of Foreign Affairs. But you first supported the civil war in Syria and helped the opponents of Assad. The Iranians have entered Syria, now you are bombing them and say how great you are.
            1. The comment was deleted.
              1. Charik
                Charik 17 December 2021 14: 24
                +1
                What are the names of people who violate signed agreements, I answer-Americans
              2. Moskovit
                Moskovit 17 December 2021 17: 03
                +1
                Quote: atalef
                ... the fact that they took Crimea is a concern for the safety of the Russians?

                Is not it so? Odessa and Donbass. Have you heard of them? You bomb neighboring states if you think they threaten your safety. Help in their destruction.


                Quote: atalef

                not 80%. a 57

                65% as of the 2014 census.

                Quote: atalef
                What are the names of people who violate signed agreements?

                It is not for you to be the conscience of the world. Well, the Swiss would also talk about treaties. A country that regularly violates international law ... However, your Foreign Ministry is keeping quiet, unlike you.
                Quote: atalef
                and what ? I have a brother-in-law and all his family from Simferopol.

                Does he live there now?

                Quote: atalef

                that's for sure.
                alas.

                At least call out. It won't change the presence of Iran at your side
      2. VORON538
        VORON538 17 December 2021 07: 49
        +10
        Alas, the Ukrainians galloped "to the gilyak" so hard that the inhabitants of Crimea left, "fell away with the Crimea" from the demoniac :)))
        1. The comment was deleted.
          1. VORON538
            VORON538 17 December 2021 13: 55
            0
            Come on, even the vaunted American intelligence never found the Russian army, but the Jewish trace in the coup in Ukraine is in plain sight
            .But this is "dgugoe", as you say. In general, you wouldn’t be bothered to wash, steam up. Where do the admins look? Do not touch Dguzey banshees and use them ?!
      3. NDR-791
        NDR-791 17 December 2021 07: 54
        +15
        Quote: atalef
        having arranged a booth in the Donbass.

        Balagan, you say? Oh well. The Ukrainians themselves will thank you for the "balagan".
        1. atalef
          atalef 17 December 2021 07: 59
          -20
          Quote: NDR-791
          Quote: atalef
          having arranged a booth in the Donbass.

          Balagan, you say? Oh well. The Ukrainians themselves will thank you for the "balagan".

          To me ? Or Strelkov and his comrades?
      4. Egoza
        Egoza 17 December 2021 07: 56
        +17
        Quote: atalef
        tearing off Crimea and making a booth in Donbass

        Try to say "booth" to the Donbass militias! They will quickly break off your wings!
        1. atalef
          atalef 17 December 2021 08: 04
          -21
          Quote: Egoza
          Quote: atalef
          tearing off Crimea and making a booth in Donbass

          Try to say "booth" to the Donbass militias! They will quickly break off your wings!

          Elena, are you still broadcasting from underground in occupied Kiev?
          wink
      5. Lech from Android.
        Lech from Android. 17 December 2021 07: 58
        +19
        Return the Golan to the Syrians, return the lands taken from them to the Palestinians ... you do not need to cheat.
        1. atalef
          atalef 17 December 2021 08: 02
          -22
          Quote: Lech from Android.
          Return the Golan to the Syrians,

          only after you return Keniksberg and the Kuriles.
          Quote: Lech from Android.
          return the land taken from them to the Palestinians

          Who are they? belay
          Is there such a state?
          Quote: Lech from Android.
          no need to cheat.

          tell grandmothers fairy tales, there are adult uncles, first approach the materiel.
          1. Lech from Android.
            Lech from Android. 17 December 2021 08: 18
            +14
            Here with yourself and start a smart guy. smile
            Freedom for Palestinians from Israeli occupation ... down with Israeli aggression against Syria. smile
            You deny even the Palestinians the right to self-determination ... monsters.
            You have not yet answered the provocateurs for our Il.
            You still have to answer for unleashing the war against Iran ... arsonists and killers of scientists.
            1. atalef
              atalef 17 December 2021 14: 23
              -3
              Quote: Lech from Android.
              Freedom for Palestinians from Israeli occupation ... down with Israeli aggression against Syria.


              Quote: Lech from Android.
              You deny even the Palestinians the right to self-determination ... monsters.

              they do not give the right. take the rights. = - remember this.
              Quote: Lech from Android.
              You have not yet answered the provocateurs for our Il.

              are you from android or from Andromeda?
              Quote: Lech from Android.
              You still have to answer for unleashing the war against Iran ... arsonists and killers of scientists.

              incendiaries laughing laughing
              you made me a day good
          2. VORON538
            VORON538 17 December 2021 13: 09
            +1
            Nasset Koeniga and the Kuril Islands, fortunately, not for you, .... decide, as well as about the Crimea. Oh, after all, Igor Berkut was right about your people, who always spoil, and then screams about the "Holocaust" to the whole world, while milking this whole world on the sly.
            1. atalef
              atalef 17 December 2021 14: 27
              -2
              Quote: VORON538
              Nasset Koeniga and the Kuriles, fortunately, it is not for you ... to decide, as well as about Crimea

              and what about the Golan - like you?
              Quote: VORON538
              Oh, after all, Igor Berkut was right in relation to your people, who always spoil, and then screams about the "Holocaust" to the whole world, while milking this whole world on the sly.


              Yes it is you all the time squealing - then you are being deceived. then they steal money from you. then you don't sit like that, you don't stand that way.
              some kind of permanent inferiority complex against the backdrop of great-power chauvinism.
              Read Churchill
              The British are not anti-Semites, because we do not consider ourselves more stupid than the Jews. “- Winston Churchill.
              1. VORON538
                VORON538 17 December 2021 16: 57
                +1
                Well, I didn’t say anything about the tax, I don’t care about your problems, although, of course, it’s a pity that they can’t click on your nose with dignity, you beat people there too ... Unlike you, Crimea scratches you Jews (and Berkut talked about it). And yes, no matter what a swindler, a usurer, an oligarch of yours. And after that you say that "your little sarochka is a virgin" ??? and your preziki), being your fellow tribesmen, in fact rip off the population of the country. Alas, this is a historical fact that you are lying, and you bought all the certificates, because whole nations cannot be mistaken about you! And about revolutions, just look at the nationality of the "real violent", as well as the identity of the usurers-bankers-oligarchs. It's not for nothing that you, ... (censorship), raised a hysteria in the media about the attempt to return the column "nationality". By the way, only Jews can be on the forum I’m not surprised to deny that Crimea belongs to Russia. I’m reading your friendly correspondence with Romanov. I’ve been here since 2012. You don’t understand why whole nations don’t really want to see you? Is your memory bad?
          3. your1970
            your1970 18 December 2021 13: 20
            +1
            Quote: Lech from Android.
            Return the Golan to the Syrians,

            Quote: atalef
            only after you return Keniksberg and the Kuriles.

            Quote: atalef
            they do not give the right. take the rights. = - remember this

            Mmmm .... Gotta remember !!!!
            When and if we return to Ukraine and say so to everyone - guys, call me, our rights have been much longer than 30 years. If you want to be right, try ...
            And to refer to Atalef ...
      6. Borz
        Borz 17 December 2021 08: 05
        +12
        That’s who would talk about the "booth", but not the representative of Israel. The aggressive policy of this small but very arrogant state in the B. East has become the cause of an endless series of conflicts. By the way, without any prospect of their ending peacefully. Painfully, this people is warlike in relation to their neighbors.
        They, "chosen by God" (hehe), need to remember that in a certain scenario, their country, surrounded by such neighbors, will cease to exist in an instant.
        Are you talking about a booth in Ukraine ...
        Watch yourself
        1. VORON538
          VORON538 17 December 2021 13: 12
          +2
          I would say more, the representatives of this people staged more than one revolution in Russia, and in the world. And they sit like "and we do not worry about anything."
      7. Sergey39
        Sergey39 17 December 2021 08: 12
        +9
        The favorite mantra of the head-heads is to shift the problem from a sore head to a healthy one. Who arranged the state. coup in Ukraine? And, the consequences of Crimea and Donbass. (((
        1. VORON538
          VORON538 17 December 2021 13: 15
          +1
          Igor Berkut told about the coup in his videos so much that the SBU imprisoned him. The head of Ukraine is one of the same "God's chosen".
      8. SSA
        SSA 17 December 2021 13: 37
        +2
        A seizure of power was carried out in Ukraine! Supported by the West. Not somewhere out there ... in Liberia, Swaziland, Fiji, etc., but close to Russia, in a country where many Russians live, where there is a military base. Absolutely shamelessly and arrogantly, the Western special services brought ultra-right nationalists to power in Ukraine.

        By the way, in Israel, in response to the murder of IDF soldiers, they roll out the Merkavas, which are being leveled to the ground, and the houses of terrorists. And in Ukraine, nationalists burned alive, knelt down and killed police officers and all this with impunity.

        Russia could not help reacting to such impudence! After all, there were agreements, after all, the president of Ukraine resigned ... no. It's all wrong, let's coup.

        As for the Crimea and its alleged seizure, how surprising is that Russia somehow managed to capture and enslave the population of Crimea and hold elections without firing a single shot, but Ukraine in the Donbass simply cannot cope with its own former citizens.
        So maybe, if the own citizens of Ukraine are happy to accept a referendum on joining another country, and other citizens of Ukraine are fiercely fighting with this very Ukraine, so maybe it’s not a matter of citizens? And in the state? Maybe something, somewhere went wrong?

        But let's in Dagestan or Chechnya, we will prohibit speaking in languages ​​other than Russian! Do you think the highlanders are clapping their hands to the government?
      9. abc_alex
        abc_alex 18 December 2021 00: 43
        0
        Quote: atalef
        Well, it was you who pushed Ukraine to join NATO in the first place. tearing off the Crimea and making a booth in the Donbass.


        Only a person who absolutely does not know the history of Ukraine's movement in NATO can say this.
  2. Lech from Android.
    Lech from Android. 17 December 2021 07: 23
    +9
    They make it clear to the West that Ukraine, of course, can move,

    A masterpiece phrase ... can it breathe?
  3. rocket757
    rocket757 17 December 2021 07: 36
    +7
    Western Observer: The Russian President has gathered on the western borders about the same number of troops that Bush Jr. gathered in 2003 to invade Iraq
    ... The difference is fundamental, but explaining this to foreigners was useless before, but now it has become even worse.
    In general, the troops are moving across our territory, there is nothing to justify, to prove to someone and there is no need.
  4. Vladimir Vladimirovich Vorontsov
    Vladimir Vladimirovich Vorontsov 17 December 2021 07: 45
    +17
    The Russian President has gathered on the western borders about the same number of troops that Bush Jr. gathered in 2003 to invade Iraq.

    ***
    Our troops are on our territory,
    but Bush Jr. sent "the same number of troops" to the country,
    which not every American congressman will show on the map ...
    ***
    1. your1970
      your1970 18 December 2021 13: 23
      +1
      Quote: Vladimir Vladimirovich Vorontsov
      Bush Jr. sent "the same number of troops"

      Not the same - but almost 3 times more
  5. tralflot1832
    tralflot1832 17 December 2021 07: 46
    +6
    And what European politician will take on the role of Saddam, well, before the rope?
    1. A. Privalov
      A. Privalov 17 December 2021 08: 32
      -10
      Quote: tralflot1832
      And what European politician will take on the role of Saddam, well, before the rope?

      Well, why such extremes?
      So you, an adequate and real-minded person, believe that military forces of the above-mentioned number are being concentrated on the border with Ukraine? Okay, not 170 thousand, but 90, as Ukraine says.
      Why does the "West" claim that this is true, if in fact there is no one there, except for the usual border guards?
      The expression "Our troops are on our territory," no one takes seriously, this is a stupid excuse.
      So which side is lying to us?
      1. tralflot1832
        tralflot1832 17 December 2021 10: 37
        +4
        The battalion groups went to winter camps, and the noise was noisy. All the more, Mobile Camp 500 is now gorgeous, it is made according to the German model. Taburetkin bought 8 pieces of $ 14 million each from the Germans, then ours made their own project, they say better and cheaper. The ball is on the American side. , want to give us an ultimatum. Then excuse me.
      2. VORON538
        VORON538 17 December 2021 13: 18
        +2
        Russia to move its army units beyond the Urals? And you were not stupid there in your Israel?
  6. Ros 56
    Ros 56 17 December 2021 08: 20
    +7
    Has at least one idiot who claims about the number of our troops been there, has he seen them himself, or is everyone using the OBS phone? Well, how can you treat them after that, except as clients of a fool?
    1. A. Privalov
      A. Privalov 17 December 2021 08: 44
      -7
      Quote: Ros 56
      Has at least one idiot who claims about the number of our troops been there, has he seen them himself, or is everyone using the OBS phone? Well, how can you treat them after that, except as clients of a fool?

      They take a bus zhurnalyug, they make an excursion along the border. They see that there is no one but the border guards, they write this in their publications and voila, all Western spiteful critics are ashamed, the topic is closed. What's easier?
      1. Ros 56
        Ros 56 17 December 2021 08: 47
        +5
        Are you suggesting that I do it ??? fellow
        1. A. Privalov
          A. Privalov 17 December 2021 08: 52
          -10
          You, no. What do you. This is not for you. My proposal is pure rhetoric. You, keep up the good work. hi
      2. your1970
        your1970 17 December 2021 11: 17
        +6
        Quote: A. Privalov
        They take a bus zhurnalyug, they make an excursion along the border. They see that there is no one there except the border guards,

        I am embarrassed to ask - on our territory at what distance can troops be deployed from the border? 50 km? 100? 500?
        Otherwise, let's move the friendly journalists screaming - Oh, they moved everything 499 km away ...
        1. VORON538
          VORON538 17 December 2021 13: 22
          +2
          Those from Israel would generally like us to disband or reduce their army. Plus the surrender of nuclear weapons under US control with further destruction. Maybe Israel will stop milking foreign countries through banks and start living peacefully with its neighbors? No, Israel has long spread ... . with neighbors and does not want to lose freebies in other strana.Strana moneylenders, Th is already there.
        2. A. Privalov
          A. Privalov 17 December 2021 14: 03
          -2
          Quote: your1970
          I am embarrassed to ask - on our territory at what distance can troops be deployed from the border? 50 km? 100? 500?
          Otherwise, let's move the friendly journalists screaming - Oh, they moved everything 499 km away ...

          I spoke about your journals. The entire 1 channel goes there, led by Kiselyov.
          They are all tame, they will not squeal anything against.
          Then, he will come out and tell everyone with authority that no one is there. He will be supported by Peskov and others. And the topic will be closed.
          1. your1970
            your1970 17 December 2021 20: 49
            +2
            Quote: A. Privalov
            that no one is there. He will be supported by Peskov and others. And the topic will be closed.

            Come on .... to certain persons - even if Clintonsha and BJonson come there and say that there is no one there - this will not be enough.
            They will say whether the troops were hidden or Putin bought them belay belay
            1. A. Privalov
              A. Privalov 17 December 2021 20: 52
              0
              Quote: your1970
              Come on .... to certain persons - even if Clintonsha and BJonson come there and say that there is no one there - this will not be enough.
              They will say whether the troops were hidden or Putin bought them

              This means that you need to lie less. Then everyone will believe.
              1. your1970
                your1970 17 December 2021 22: 37
                +2
                Quote: A. Privalov
                Quote: your1970
                Come on .... to certain persons - even if Clintonsha and BJonson come there and say that there is no one there - this will not be enough.
                They will say whether the troops were hidden or Putin bought them

                This means that you need to lie less. Then everyone will believe.

                Well, if we proceed from your logic, we cannot catch up with the United States ... They not only waved a test tube at the UN, but also gouged Iraq on its basis ...
                No, for nonsense, we will never catch up with the United States ...
                1. A. Privalov
                  A. Privalov 18 December 2021 02: 23
                  +1
                  Quote: your1970
                  Well, if we proceed from your logic, we cannot catch up with the United States ... They not only waved a test tube at the UN, but also gouged Iraq on its basis ...
                  No, for nonsense, we will never catch up with the United States ...

                  You, the United States do not care now. Otherwise, if we proceed from your logic, if Petya cut off his nose, then Styopa is also obliged to cut off his nose. If we start to measure ourselves in one place and list how many times, who, and to whom lied, we will not get out of this.
                  Now, we are talking about something else. Ukraine, beating itself with a heel on the chest, is blessed in full bliss that the Russian Federation is pulling troops to its borders. The "West" echoes her. All other parts of the world are asking whether there are Russian troops there or not? Not three or five hundred kilometers from the border, but precisely in the border areas and precisely in a "substantial" quantity.
                  Excuses like "and we are on our territory where we want troops, there and ..", "and NATO is also expanding its troops somewhere there ..." - are simply ridiculous.
                  The question is asked direct. It should be answered directly.
                  1. your1970
                    your1970 18 December 2021 11: 30
                    +1
                    Quote: A. Privalov
                    The question is asked direct. It should be answered directly.

                    Has been given STRAIGHT(much more direct !!!) answer: "The troops are there Yes, we are conducting exercises, and we can move troops anywhere on our territory. "
                    1. A. Privalov
                      A. Privalov 18 December 2021 12: 41
                      +1
                      Quote: your1970
                      A DIRECT (much more direct !!!) answer was given: "The troops are there, we are conducting exercises, and we can move the troops anywhere on our territory."

                      Excuse attempt is credited. good drinks hi
                      1. your1970
                        your1970 18 December 2021 13: 13
                        +1
                        Quote: A. Privalov
                        Quote: your1970
                        A DIRECT (much more direct !!!) answer was given: "The troops are there, we are conducting exercises, and we can move the troops anywhere on our territory."

                        Excuse attempt is credited. good drinks hi

                        Well, explain then - your the formula direct answer? What should Russia say?
                      2. A. Privalov
                        A. Privalov 18 December 2021 15: 04
                        +1
                        Quote: your1970
                        Well, explain then - your formula for a direct answer? What should Russia say?

                        1. Russia owes nothing to anyone.
                        2. However, in world international practice, it is not the boorish thing that is used: "There are troops there, we conduct exercises, and we can move troops across our territory anywhere," but diplomatic: "Military exercises according to the approved plan of the Ministry of Defense (or unscheduled, which is also polite, but a well-understood hint) are held in such and such areas in such and such numbers, on such and such dates. Period. The curtain closes. Everyone is happy. drinks
                      3. your1970
                        your1970 18 December 2021 15: 17
                        +2
                        Quote: A. Privalov
                        diplomatic

                        Mmm ... then you just missed a lot - the RF Ministry of Defense reported about this event in your format ...
                        But the screams from this did not decrease ...

                        Look - NATO is talking about 170, Ukraine about 90 000 - and under the article we were equated with the United States and the attack on Iraq. And there were more troops 400 000
                        Will this observer believe the representative of the Ministry of Defense or VVP? Yes, what for does he need it, he TO YOURSELF already painted aggression ...
                        I'm generally surprised that he didn't add a couple of million soldiers to us
                      4. A. Privalov
                        A. Privalov 18 December 2021 16: 39
                        +1
                        In the article, it could be equated with the attack of the Martians.
                        Believes-does not believe, that's not the point at all.
                        The fact is that the Russian Federation regards Ukraine's withdrawal to the West and joining NATO as a terrible and worst scenario for the development of events. And by this, it has been sniffing Ukraine in every way for 7 years. This is happening before everyone's eyes.
                        NATO will not take anyone to itself if military operations are going on in its country. The Russian Federation plays on this easily, keeping the conflict with the DPR / DPR on low fire. Everyone around sees this and is already asking out loud, when will everything that was taken in the nearest military trade office be over?
                      5. your1970
                        your1970 18 December 2021 20: 20
                        +1
                        Quote: A. Privalov
                        All other parts of the world are asking whether there are Russian troops there or not? Not three or five hundred kilometers from the border, but precisely in the border areas and precisely in a "substantial" quantity.
                        Excuses like "and we are on our territory where we want troops, there and ..", "and NATO is also expanding its troops somewhere there ..." - are simply ridiculous.
                        The question is asked direct. It should be answered directly.

                        Started for health - finished for peace
                        Quote: A. Privalov
                        ... And by this, it has been scouring Ukraine in every way for 7 years.

                        The direct answer was discussed ...
                        What does the distance to the Russian army have to do with "chmyrit"?
                        The United States is blasting the whole world, Israel is blasting Palestine, China is blasting Taiwan, Turkey is blasting Greece - the list is endless. As long as countries have their own interests, it will never end
                        It was said in Russian about the red lines and the interests of the Russian Federation. Yes, it would be extremely painful for the Russian Federation to join NATO, it was also said about this in plain text. Everyone understands everything perfectly well.

                        Z. It is somewhat strange to hear support of the Nazi (and does not hide it !!!) regime of Ukraine from you ..
                        But God bless this, they say in the Wehrmacht and the Luftwaffe, too, were Jews
                      6. A. Privalov
                        A. Privalov 18 December 2021 22: 12
                        +2
                        Come on, what the hell support. I don't care about Ukraine at all. Separatists always and everywhere and at any time sucks. The principle is interesting to me.
                        As for the Jews in Nazi Germany, with the release of the Nuremberg racial laws in 1935, they were all swept out of the army. An exception, and even then in some cases, was given to half-breeds and then until 1938. Then, they were all sent to concentration camps.
  7. Georgy Zamostyan
    Georgy Zamostyan 17 December 2021 08: 52
    +2
    And what if Ukraine urgently makes friends with Moscow and delivers missiles somewhere in Lvov or the Carpathians I wonder then NATO will accept Ukraine into its structure
  8. Dmitry V.
    Dmitry V. 17 December 2021 09: 52
    +3
    The Russian President has gathered on the western borders about the same number of troops that Bush Jr. gathered in 2003 to invade Iraq.


    US Central Command, commenting on reports from the Air Force Commander, indicated that as of April 30, 2003, Operation Iraqi Freedom had deployed 466 US military personnel... This number includes 54 955 Air Force, 2084 Air Force Reserve, 7207 National Guard Air Force, 74 405 ILC, 9501 ILC Reserve, 61 296 Naval Forces (of which 681 are from the Coast Guard), 2056 Naval Reserve, 10 683 Land Reserve, 8 866 National Army guard.


    Something the numbers do not beat 466985 USA in 2003 in Iraq, compared to 175000 (or other 90000) on the western borders of the Russian Federation - somehow the arithmetic is bad for the freight forwarders ...


    Volodymyr Zelenskyy, during his sensational press conference, when asked by a journalist about whether there will be a war with Russia, without batting an eye, said: "We have been at war for eight years already."

    CC BY-SA 4.0
    And what should Russia do at the borders of a country whose leader (prez Zelen) has publicly declared that Ukraine is at war with Russia?
    Should you plant flowers?
    1. VORON538
      VORON538 17 December 2021 13: 30
      0
      The presence at the borders of Russia of an inadequate, not quite state, behind which looms another European union of states ready to rush to the east under the pretext of the absence of democracy in Russia (they were satisfied only with Russia during the times of Yeltsin and Gorbachev), quite naturally justifies the strengthening of Russia's western borders. the authorities of any country in the world would not have done this. The trouble is that for Western speaking heads in the governments of European countries, we are just untermensch. Just like 100 years ago, and 200, and 1000.
  9. Dmitry V.
    Dmitry V. 17 December 2021 09: 58
    +3
    By the way, prez Greens!
    Your press service did not remind you that, according to tradition, the leader of a country at war with Russia should have poison, a pistol with one cartridge and a couple of cans of gasoline
  10. likas
    likas 17 December 2021 10: 01
    +1
    It is very stupid on our part not to prepare for a war, moreover, a world war.
    The war will be local in terms of actions with Ukraine and global with an advanced strike on Geyrop and America ... otherwise there is no point in starting, we will lose. It is necessary at least once and for all to start Russia and end with wars on a global scale.
  11. prior
    prior 17 December 2021 11: 07
    +1
    The Russian President has gathered on the western borders about the same number of troops that Bush Jr. gathered in 2003 to invade Iraq.

    The only difference is that the Americans invaded and gouged IRAQ, and the Russian invasion of Ukraine will have to wait in vain for another seven years.
  12. Evgeny Chukgekov
    Evgeny Chukgekov 17 December 2021 12: 17
    +2
    Putin wants to attack Ukraine. In order to provide it with gas. Oil for free and. To give pensioners Russian pensions. But it’s easier to crush the Ukrainians economically. Without any bloodshed
  13. Sergey Melnik
    Sergey Melnik 17 December 2021 13: 17
    +4
    Quote: atalef
    Quote: Pessimist22
    This is you write nonsense, they purposefully pump Ukraine with weapons.

    You probably forgot a little that before the Crimea and the LPNR, Ukraine actually did not have an army, from the word in general.
    The volunteers fought.
    You led the situation to the fact that Ukraine began to arm itself, revived the Armed Forces and rushed to NATO.

    No need to blame a sore head on a healthy one. You yourself brought the situation to its present state. Russia acted only in response to changes in the situation, and did not create it as your junta
  14. TatarinSSSR
    TatarinSSSR 18 December 2021 00: 11
    +1
    Putin can gather at least the entire Russian army on the border with Ukraine, there will be no sense. The US will push Ukraine into NATO, Georgia too. Russia has no levers of influence on them, except to maintain the hotbed of conflicts in Donbass and South Ossetia, in the hope that because of them these countries will not be admitted to NATO. The United States will change the charter or simply deploy its troops and weapons there as much as they want and nothing will stop them. There is only one reason - in the congression they realized long ago that Putin and the Russian elite will NEVER go into an open, even regional, military conflict, because the country's economy is too weak and such military actions and expenses can only be delayed as fleeting, 10 days and no more. And then everything, obzat. Since the occupied territories must be maintained and restored. Under even more deadly Western sanctions. Russia will not be able to handle it. The economy will sink completely, the still living business will run to the West. Dissatisfied riots and protests within the country will begin. This is exactly what the United States needs. But the Kremlin does not. That is why he plays "on the edge" and no more. The USA understands this and will push it to the end. The Kremlin has only one way out - to support, through front organizations, the pro-Russian opposition in Ukraine and Georgia, and to prepare reverse, pro-Russian coups there. But the stake should be placed not on corrupt skins, but on patriots. But to be honest, it's too late. The train left.
  15. lelik613
    lelik613 18 December 2021 10: 09
    0
    The Russian president has gathered on the western borders (Russia!) About the same number of troops that Bush Jr. collected in 2003 for the invasion of Iraq, 10 thousand kilometers from the US borders.

    Comedians ...
  16. babylon
    babylon 21 December 2021 13: 39
    0
    The only reason is the Ukrainian maydanutaya power!
    Remove this bunch of adventurer clowns and all problems will be settled by themselves by the bases of external intervention
  17. Black cowl
    Black cowl 29 December 2021 21: 56
    0
    Quote: aleksejkabanets
    Having become a "raw material appendage" of more economically developed countries? Is this an independent policy in your opinion?

    What does "raw material appendage" mean? In the 90s, when foreigners dominated the economy, maybe. And now only liberal women are running around with these clichés, like with a flag. And then, read the comments more carefully, I wrote that Russia is trying to pursue an independent policy.