Military Review

Thirty years of Belovezhskaya betrayal

197
In general, so much has been written about the Belovezhskaya betrayal of the country that it is very difficult to add something from above. However, given that three decades have passed since that moment, it is worth recalling and even summing up some results.


Because even centuries do not erase the shame of a nation. And here the shame was multinational


On December 8, 1991, a group, in legal terms, organized by prior conspiracy in the person of B. Yeltsin, L. Kravchuk and S. Shushkevich, with the involved accomplices, carried out in fact a coup d'etat.


All these thirty years, the accomplices of the coup with all their might tried to convince the whole world that the Soviet Union collapsed on its own, as it was an unviable system.

A normal person with a bright head understands that an unviable system simply could not carry out everything that the Soviet people accomplished in the 70 years of the country's existence. But alas, such people are becoming less and less every year.

In fact, until December 1991, they tried to save the Union. Here you can say a lot of "warm" words to the then President of the USSR Mikhail Gorbachev, who was good at speaking verbose speeches about nothing, but as an employee he was very much below average.

Gorbachev tried to save the country by concluding new treaties with the republics within the framework of the Union, but this was done like everything else with Mikhail Sergeevich: wordy and incomprehensible. The draft of the new union treaty, one might say, was born in agony, and in 1991 no one was interested in signing it. All of a sudden they wanted independence.

The first, as you remember, was Ukraine. Then the Baltics, Moldova, Georgia, Armenia and Azerbaijan fell off. As a result, Russia, Belarus, Kazakhstan, Uzbekistan, Turkmenistan, Kyrgyzstan and Tajikistan were left to “think about” the Union.

Kravchuk, on behalf of Ukraine, which gained independence, which was recognized by everyone, did not intend to sign a union treaty at all. But the document on the collapse of the USSR - I would love to wave it. Fantastic and alluring pictures of a bright future were unfolding in front of Ukraine, most likely projected from Washington.

Roughly the same thoughts wandered in Yeltsin's head. He clearly dreamed of one thing: the presidency. Moreover, for some reason, the chair of the President of the RSFSR did not suit him, he needed something different, but soft and comfortable.

By the way, it worked. And the armchair is just what you need, judging by the fact that in 30 years only two have sat in it. Forgive me generously, dear readers, but Medvedev's sitting on the edge of this chair cannot be considered the presidency. Understand why, who did not understand the message - August 2008, remember how this "president" was "in command". Well, the rest of his accomplishments ...

As a result, both Moscow and Washington recognize the independence of Ukraine. Yeltsin also wanted, you know, this independence. In general, everyone wanted to, because everyone suddenly thought what could happen if Yeltsin had all the power. And the newly-minted presidents of the newly-minted republics rushed to independence no worse than race horses, who went ahead.

In general, this, as he was later called, "parade of independence" did not help the cause, but rather hurt. Hastened the collapse of the Soviet state.

Well, then those who today in textbooks are called neither more nor less, but “builders of a new type of democracy” got down to business. The head of the group was Yeltsin, who served as a signboard. And behind Yeltsin were G. Burbulis, E. Gaidar, S. Shakhrai and A. Kozyrev. It was this group that prepared what was then called the Bialowieza Agreement, and now it can be safely called the Bialowieza Treachery.

On December 8, a group of representatives from the three republics put their signatures on the document that marked the end of the Soviet Union and the beginning of the Commonwealth of Independent States.

It is also worth remembering the races with the words of Messrs. Yeltsin and Burbulis from Russia, Kravchuk and Fokin from Ukraine and Shushkevich and Kebich from Belarus.

By the way, why only Russia, Ukraine and Belarus? Nobody was surprised by such a composition?

It is worth remembering the "great lawyer" Shakhrai. This is according to his calculations, since in 1922 the Soviet Union was formed by the RSFSR, Ukraine, Belarus and the Transcaucasian Republic, then since the Transcaucasus by that time ceased to exist, it means that the three remaining republics are enough to destroy the USSR.

By the way, it is quite logical that representatives of the Central Asian republics would be against such a trick. Nazarbayev was definitely against the collapse of the USSR. Therefore, everything was done quietly and vilely. And the place was beautifully chosen, very close to the border, so that if anything, it would be possible to go beyond the cordon.

But alas. Gorbachev was well aware of what was happening, but he did absolutely nothing to prevent the committed treason. So he can be safely ranked among the traitors to the Motherland to which he swore as president.

As a result, according to the document signed by three groups of traitors, "the USSR as a subject of international law and geopolitical reality ceases to exist."

On this, in fact, история The Soviet Union was over. The era of the CIS has begun.

Two documents were created and signed: "Statement of Heads of State" and "Statement of Heads of Government".

It said that the heads and leaders, realizing that "the short-sighted policy of the Center led to a deep economic and political crisis, to the collapse of production, a catastrophic decline in living standards of almost all strata of society," came to a decision about the need to liquidate the USSR.

Naturally, someone should have been accused of destroying the country. A certain "Center". The question is that they were all employees of this "center", as they worked in the appropriate positions.

Well, the cherry on the cake with the name "CIS" is that the conspirators first reported the events to the US President Bush Sr., and only then to their President Gorbachev.

Gorbachev was indignant, but did nothing again. Bush called a press conference and announced that the USSR no longer exists and the US won the Cold War. It was at this press conference that the figure spent on the collapse of the Soviet Union was announced - five trillion dollars.

By the way, literally a month before the events described, in November 1991, in one of his speeches, British Prime Minister Margaret Thatcher announced that “Yeltsin received substantial assistance during the events of August 1991, when the leading elite of the USSR, blocking Gorbachev, tried to restore the system that ensured the integrity of the USSR ”.

It is understandable why Yeltsin and company were the first to rush to report to Bush. The owners rarely like the displays of excessive initiative from the servants.

Nevertheless, the deed was done. And to this day, Russians continue to stubbornly drum into the heads of Russians the myth that the USSR was an unviable entity and disintegrated by itself. And what happened in Belovezhskaya Pushcha is like a simple statement of fact. And refugees who flocked to Russia in droves from the former republics of the former USSR, forced migrants and other victims of this crime are simply a consequence of which neither Yeltsin nor his accomplices were to blame.

And what about the guarantor who should have done everything possible? Arrest, appoint an investigation, court? Gorbachev let everything go on the brakes. Apparently, the GKChP finally broke his already not great will. It was easier for Mikhail Sergeevich to give up everything and run away to live in Germany, where he paid more than more than a vengeance.

Army ... Yes, the army at that time was simply stunned by what was happening. But it was the same Soviet Army that could solve all the problems. Of course, the August putsch somewhat diminished confidence, but everyone remembered the results of the March referendum on the preservation of the USSR. And if Gorbachev remembered that he was the Supreme Commander-in-Chief and would simply tear up all these little pieces of paper ...

All that the president of the USSR could do was absolutely ridiculous calls to think again and some kind of inarticulate babble. And together, all this cooled the desire to protect the USSR among many. On the contrary, everyone took Gorbachev's drain with some relief, hoping that now the transition from verbiage to business would begin.

And the transition took place, but somewhat not in the place where everyone thought.

The first blow to the economic space of the CIS was the disappearance of the single ruble space. And this was a real collapse of the entire general system.

The national banks of the "independent states" wanted to print rubles in unlimited quantities, which gave rise to the hyperinflation of the 90s. The Russian Central Bank was unable to take control of the money supply; any attempt was regarded as an attempt on the independence of these countries.

And the Russian Federation was the first to leave the post-Soviet economic space, starting to print the Russian ruble instead of the Soviet one. Well, and then all the rest reached out. Coupons, bunnies, tenge ... And the dollar reigned over everything ...

A few words about lawlessness


The Supreme Soviet of the RSFSR violated more than 30 articles of the Constitution of the RSFSR in force at that time, which contained a mention of the USSR. Moreover, on April 21, 1992, the Congress of People's Deputies of the RSFSR in Articles 4, 7, 30 of the Constitution of the RSFSR confirmed that the Constitution and laws of the USSR are in force on the territory of the RSFSR, and the Russian Federation itself is part of the USSR.

Not everyone in the country approved of this. At the aforementioned Congress of People's Deputies (they were really people's then), Messrs. Yeltsin, Khasbulatov and Filatov THREE TIMES raised the issue of ratifying the Belovezhskaya Agreements and three times the Congress refused to vote for the exclusion of the article on the existence of the USSR from the Constitution of the RSFSR.

But it all ended with a parliamentary execution in 1993.

Today, however, the authors of the Belovezhskaya treachery are no longer so active in exposing their roles in the collapse of the USSR. Shakhrai and Burbulis today whitewash themselves in two voices and blame everything on Gaidar, who really, at one time, very proudly talked about his role in the crime.

The collapse of the Soviet Union is a world tragedy

Indeed, we watched how Europe was uniting, creating a single economic, legal and even political space. Using in this the real experience of the USSR. And that state, which they did not copy, but took as a model, was divided into components.

So what have we got in these thirty years?

For thirty years Russia was ruled by two people. Medvedev does not count, it is clear with him, the local holder and nothing more. Russia was ruled by Yeltsin and Putin, whom he brought.

So what did they do?

Millions of people have lost their homeland, ended up not on their own in a foreign territory, and the return of many thousands to their homeland has become another tragedy for many.

The Russian economy has received a deep knockout and still cannot recover. The ruble continues to fall in price from year to year, the population's debt burden is growing, although not at the rate that Gref would like.

Russian industry, torn from the Soviet system, is unable to provide the production of many things the country needs. Moreover, the industry is also in a deep crisis and is simply not capable of what it was 30 years ago.

Soviet medicine, which was rightfully one of the best in the world, resisted for a long time, but was destroyed. The events of 2020-2021 showed the complete inability of the Ministry of Health to treat Russians and save their lives.

Over the years, culture has become a vile swamp. Let the Russians also have merit in this, but the degradation of cinema and theater is simply stunning.

Education has been destroyed. The teacher, carrying knowledge and education, was brought to the level of a beggar providing educational services.

The state machine has turned into an apparatus for milking money out of the population through taxes, levies and - especially - fines with or without them.

The coronavirus has shown the complete impotence of power from the very top to the very bottom.

The army and navy, despite the beautiful stories that 50, 60, 70 percent are new equipment, are equipped with Soviet weapons. Modernization of old weapons, designed to somehow patch the holes in the country's defense (from ships to ICBMs) with its size is simply terrifying.

The Soviet human right to work, rest, restoration of health and housing has been destroyed. They took away their pensions. Those who have not yet been taken away will be taken away, there is no need to worry.

I don’t want to talk about Russia's authority on the world stage.

But how joyfully the growing legion of Russian billionaires looks on the pages of Forbes.

And how can you be sure of the correct (correct, not fair) results of any elections and referendums.

In general, the team that committed the betrayal in December 1991 continues its activities very successfully today. Yes, Yeltsin, Burbulis, Shakhrai, Gaidar were replaced by younger Putin, Gref, Chubais, Medvedev, Nabiullina and others.

And everything that Putin's team has done over the 21 years of his rule has long ago made it clear that there will be no return to those times. Never.

Here one can only regret that the entire people of that country were betrayed several times in 1991. Betrayed and sold. And they continue to do this from year to year. Sell, pursuing a completely anti-popular policy.

The Soviet Union has sunk into history, becoming a kind of brand. All these cafes in a retro style, the Internet littered with memories of "how it was in the USSR" and so on. Particularly touching are recipes like "you will forever forget about joint pain if you take the usual Soviet ...". Thirty years is a long time.

But the way we set things up in terms of education, you can be calm: in another 30 years, when the last real citizens of the USSR leave, they will be remembered as a kind of fairy tale. Where everyone lived well, the sun was shining brighter, and prices were meager.

But our memory is such a thing ... As long as we remember, we will not forget. Ugly date of the dastardly case. But it happened, and all that remains for us is to remember the times when the state served its citizens, we had rights (in addition to responsibilities) and not only faith in a bright future, but this future as well.

It was taken away from us, it was robbed several times throughout the country with reforms and vouchers, and it was deprived of a lot of things.

Now, having lived these 30 years, you involuntarily begin to think - is it not a payment for the fact that then, in December 1991, we were all so thirsty for democracy and some kind of freedom?

True, instead of a demos / people, the country is ruled by an oligarchy, which for some reason does not exist. And freedom ... From what? From whom? Indeed, what kind of freedom have we found? Or did they find freedom who got at their disposal what used to belong to the people and the state?

The last thing I would like to say


The Soviet Union, for all its disadvantages, was a country in which workers and collective farmers proved that they were able to work fruitfully without effective managers around their necks. Our destiny is to feed the backcountrymen and support the parasites who solve their problems at our expense. This is today's Russia.

Indeed, punishment for being silent thirty years ago?


Required postscript. I know that there are many people on the site who speak in the style "I just started living as a person in Russia." I ask you not to take everything written to heart, just everyone has their own truth.
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  1. Grandfather
    Grandfather 8 December 2021 05: 24
    +14
    Thirty years of Belovezhskaya betrayal
    that's where it started ...
    1. Tatyana
      Tatyana 8 December 2021 05: 45
      +32
      Thirty years of Belovezhskaya betrayal

      Precisely to betrayal!
      Moreover, to Vile betrayal, for which there can be no forgiveness!
      1. Tatyana
        Tatyana 8 December 2021 06: 25
        +27
        In 1990, Gorbachev and Ryzhkov forced the CMEA to decide that trade would be conducted only in dollars. At the same time, the CMEA countries did not have dollars for this - and here the IMF and the World Bank come to the rescue!
        In other words, Gorbachev created unprecedented demand for American money
        in the USSR / RF and in the CMEA countries.


        TOTAL What laws and economics will be in Russia in the 90s - it was already decided in Washington. And in the MTSP / Russia, numerous American advisers raided, who turned a powerful power into a controlled third world country.

        How did Yeltsin come to power? Washington Regional Committee. Nineties (90s) @ Central Television. • Nov 30. 2020 g.
        1. Tatyana
          Tatyana 8 December 2021 06: 40
          +22
          And how can I not remember bastard head of the Russian Foreign Ministry traitor Kozyrev - nicknamed "Mr. YES", who under Yeltsin, saving the world from nuclear war by UNILATERAL disarmament of Russia, he did not refuse anything to Washington, and who now lives happily and comfortably in the United States!
          It is difficult to remember a more shameful and humiliating period in the history of our country, than these five plus years, during which Through the efforts of Kozyrev, the Russian Foreign Ministry completely lost its independence and actually turned into a branch of the US State Department.

          History reference
          Andrei Kozyrev was appointed Minister of Foreign Affairs on October 11, 1990 at the suggestion of Ivan Silaev, Chairman of the Council of Ministers of the RSFSR, and held this post until January 5, 1996.
          - In December 1991 Kozyrev participated in the preparation of the Belovezhsky agreement on the termination of the existence of the USSR and on the creation of the CIS.
          - Exactly thanks to Kozyrev, who refused any negotiations to ensure guarantees of the preservation of all the full rights for the Russian people with the leadership of the Baltic countries, many Russian-speaking residents of Estonia, Latvia and Lithuania have become second-class people, have been deprived of their citizenship and left to fend for themselves.
          - Diligently following the orders of the West, Kozyrev made every effort to accelerate the withdrawal of the Russian military contingent from the Baltic states without any guarantees or compensation. The troops were withdrawn in a great haste, leaving behind property, equipment, well-equipped military camps.
          - With his submission, Russia resignedly refused to strategically important objects: Skrunda radar station, which was an important part of the missile attack warning system, the Space Objects Tracking Center in Ventspils, the submarine base in Liepaja, effectively exposing their defenses.
          - In September 1993 Kozyrev approved President Yeltsin's Decree No. 1400 "On Phased Constitutional Reform", according to which the Congress of People's Deputies and the Supreme Soviet of Russia were dissolved. This was followed by the shooting of the defenders of the White House and the bloody events in Moscow in October 1993 with thousands of people killed in Moscow from different cities of the Russian Federation.

          On October 20, 1993, by Yeltsin's decree, Kozyrev was appointed a member of the Russian Security Council.
          - Kozyrev persuaded Yeltsin to hand over the Kuril Islands to the Japanese and on August 21, 1992, the Russian government, signed by Gaidar, issued an order on the preparation of a state visit to Japan. Only the Russian special services, having learned about the purpose of this state visit, simply thwarted Yeltsin's visit to Japan.
          - But Kozyrev's thirst to bestow Russian land on foreigners was quenched. He transferred to China more than 600 islands on the Amur and Ussuri. Including the famous Damansky, protecting which from the Chinese in 1969 58 border guards were killed. Also, the eastern comrades got the fertile virgin lands in the Primorsky Territory.
          1. Civil
            Civil 8 December 2021 07: 48
            +9
            In general, so much has been written about the Belovezhskaya betrayal of the country that it is very difficult to add something from above.

            The main thing was not written - Millions of Soviet people did not hit a finger to save the USSR. Including those obliged to do it under oath with shoulder straps.
            But how joyfully the growing legion of Russian billionaires looks on the pages of Forbes.

            It is not the list that is increasing, but the amount in cash.
            1. alex neym_2
              alex neym_2 8 December 2021 08: 19
              +6
              Borya brought it to the spruce forest, Shushkevich nasushukl, and Kravchuk cut it: so it turned out to be a patchwork quilt instead of a down jacket - there is nothing to hide, only holes ...
              1. dorz
                dorz 8 December 2021 08: 43
                +7
                This year alone, over 100 thousand Tajiks will receive Russian citizenship ...

                "Liquidation Commission" continues to build the Anti-Russian world. sad
            2. Alexfly
              Alexfly 8 December 2021 12: 10
              +10
              Well, how are the millions? And the 93rd was not forgotten. Many tried, but the army took the wrong side ...
          2. Kushka
            Kushka 9 December 2021 00: 13
            +4
            Yeltsin did meet with the Japanese in the Far East.
            In our region there lived a guy who studied the wrong way as a translator,
            or a journalist, at that time I was there in practice. Journalist
            the Japanese edition took him to his translators. Yeltsin skated
            the Japanese on a steamer on the river (there is a bike that when the guard tried
            take away another bottle from him, Yeltsin pushed him overboard).
            Later, this publication invited this guy for a permanent job in
            Japan. Every year, when he comes on vacation, the local regional
            the newspaper interviews him. He tells how he lives in Japan,
            how much they pay for a communal apartment, etc.
        2. ermak124.0
          ermak124.0 8 December 2021 10: 17
          +12
          Schmuck. it rots in the place of honor of the Novodevichy cemetery, but should be in a landfill.
          1. Alexfly
            Alexfly 8 December 2021 12: 13
            +5
            This creature hid behind the Russian tricolor, otherwise it would have been blown up a long time ago, as promised ... And who came up with this interesting, if not his comrades-in-arms in the collapse and sawing?
      2. paul3390
        paul3390 8 December 2021 09: 18
        +12
        Doesn't it bother anyone that we are now ruled by direct legal and spiritual heirs of these most vile traitors?
      3. Vend
        Vend 8 December 2021 10: 02
        +7
        Quote: Tatiana
        Thirty years of Belovezhskaya betrayal

        Precisely to betrayal!
        Moreover, to Vile betrayal, for which there can be no forgiveness!

        Let's face it, this was a redistribution of power, not a betrayal. The Soviet elite did not care about the country, their own greatness and power was important to them.
      4. businessv
        businessv 8 December 2021 23: 38
        +4
        Quote: Tatiana
        Moreover, to Vile betrayal, for which there can be no forgiveness!
        And another small remark.
        It is worth remembering the "great lawyer" Shakhrai.
        The fact is that in Ukrainian shahrai means a swindler, a swindler. That's it.
    2. Crowe
      Crowe 8 December 2021 05: 48
      +11
      that's where it started ...

      and that's how it ended
      1. Bashkirkhan
        Bashkirkhan 8 December 2021 06: 42
        -6
        Quote: Crowe

        and that's how it ended

        Even before Gorbachev, as a result of the activities of the communists, the common house was divided into maximally autonomous "national apartments" in accordance with the policy of the party and the government. And the Constitution with "sovereign states" and "the right to exit" was also written by the communists.
        Excerpt from the 1977 Constitution of the USSR - "Article 72. Each union republic retains the right to freely secede from the USSR."
        Article 76. The Union Republic is a sovereign Soviet socialist state, which has united with other Soviet republics into the Union of Soviet Socialist Republics. "
        By 1991, each republic of the union had its own ministries, they were self-sufficient and the constitution of the USSR made it possible to secede from the union. In Central Asia, the Soviet republics degenerated into appanage khanates.
        The communists carefully nurtured an independent Ukrainian people with their own separate history and language. It was the communists who handed over the Russian lands with the Russian people to Ukraine. We presented Crimea with a fleet base in Sevastopol. They arranged forcible Ukrainization in the shortest possible time - with the dismissal of those who did not learn the language, and without observing labor laws.
        1. Doccor18
          Doccor18 8 December 2021 06: 53
          +20
          Quote: Bashkirkhan
          The communists handed it over ... They gave it ... They arranged it ...

          They were not "communists".
          There were very few real ideological communists left, they were not allowed to develop and move up the career ladder. After Stalin's death, power was firmly seized by geeks and bureaucrats, who systematically and competently brought the country to collapse. They had nothing in common with the communists. Being a member of the CPSU and being a communist are not the same thing.
          1. Olgovich
            Olgovich 8 December 2021 09: 31
            -12
            Quote: Doccor18
            Quote: Bashkirkhan
            The communists handed it over ... They gave it ... They arranged it ...

            They were not "communists".
            There were very few real ideological communists left, they were not allowed to develop and move up the career ladder. After Stalin's death, power was firmly seized by geeks and bureaucrats, who systematically and competently brought the country to collapse

            You will raise the Stalinist constitution, where ALL elements already were written:
            Article 15. Sovereignty union republics is limited only in
            the limits specified in Article 14 of the Constitution of the USSR. Outside of these
            limits, each union republic exercises state
            power yourself. The USSR protects the sovereign rights of the allied
            republics
            Article 16. Each Union republic has its own Constitution,

            Article 17. Each union republic retains the right
            free exit from the USSR.

            Article 18. The territory of the Union republics may not be
            mutable without their consent.
            Section 18a. Each Union Republic has the right to join
            in direct relations with foreign states,
            conclude agreements with them and exchange diplomatic and 290
            consular pr
            representatives.
            Article 18b. Each Union Republic has its
            republican military formations.


            Secondly - WHERE did the "real" communist leaders go? Give their names and say, why the soviet system could not bring up no one except EBN, marked, Shevardnadze and Yanaev?

            And yes, the cult of personality was condemned by absolutely ALL delegates to the party congress and absolutely all leaders countries under Stalin.
            1. Doccor18
              Doccor18 8 December 2021 10: 17
              +7
              Quote: Olgovich
              You will raise the Stalinist constitution, where ALL elements have already been written:

              A wise leader knows in advance what is allowed and what is not, and does nothing just like that
              The fact is that the whole East looks at our Union of Republics as an experimental field. Either we, within the framework of this Union, will correctly resolve the national question in its practical application, or we here, within the framework of this Union, establish truly fraternal relations between peoples, real cooperation, and then the whole East will see that in the person of our federation it has the banner of liberation , has a vanguard, in whose footsteps it must follow, and this will be the beginning of the collapse of world imperialism, Either we will make a mistake here, we will undermine the trust of the previously oppressed peoples in the proletariat of Russia, we will take away from the Union of Republics that attractive force in the eyes of the East that it has, - and then imperialism will win, we will lose.

              This is the international significance of the national question.

              The national question is also important for us from the point of view of the internal situation, not only because numerically, the former sovereign nation represents about 75 million, and the rest of the nations - 65 (this is still a lot), and not only because the previously oppressed nationalities occupy the areas most necessary for economic development and the most important points from the point of view of military strategy, but primarily because during these two years we introduced the so-called NEP, and in this regard, Great Russian nationalism began to grow, strengthen, the idea of ​​changeover was born, there are desires to arrange in a peaceful manner what Denikin did not manage to arrange, that is, to create the so-called "one and indivisible".

              Thus, in connection with the NEP, a new force is arising in our inner life - Great Russian chauvinism, nesting in our institutions, penetrating not only Soviet, but also party institutions, wandering in all corners of our federation and leading to the fact that if we are this We will not give a decisive rebuff to the new force, if we do not cut it in the bud - and the NEP conditions nurture it - we risk facing a picture of a gap between the proletariat of the former sovereign nation and the peasants of previously oppressed nations, which would mean undermining the dictatorship of the proletariat.

              But NEP not only fosters Great-Russian chauvinism, it fosters local chauvinism, especially in those republics that have several nationalities. I mean Georgia, Azerbaijan, Bukhara, partly Turkestan, where we have several nationalities, the advanced elements of which, perhaps, will soon begin to compete among themselves for primacy. This local chauvinism, of course, does not represent in its strength the danger that Great-Russian chauvinism poses. But he still poses a danger, threatening us to turn some republics into arena of national squabbles, to undermine the bonds of internationalism there.
              I.V. Stalin. 23.04.1923/XNUMX/XNUMX
              Quote: Olgovich
              Secondly - WHERE did the "real" communist leaders go ..
              Millions of ideological communists died during the revolution and civil war, during the years of repression, in the Finnish and Great Patriotic Wars. They still remained, but careerist partocrats were already beginning to dominate. It was very difficult to immediately recognize them, because there is no one more cunning and calculating than a careerist. And after the death of the Leader of the Nations, they all completely went off the rails, because now they were not put up against the wall for work (more precisely, for imitation of work).


              Quote: Olgovich
              why the soviet system was unable to educate anyone except EBN, marked, shevardnadze and yanaev?

              They are not the fruits of the Soviet system, but of that caste by the hands of drivers who were raised by the "maize and co" ...
              1. Olgovich
                Olgovich 8 December 2021 12: 47
                -8
                Quote: Doccor18
                A wise leader knows in advance that can, and what not
                Those. you can leave the Union, once it is enshrined in the Constitution
                Quote: Doccor18
                Millions of ideological communists died during the revolution and civil war, during the years of repression, in the Finnish and Great Patriotic Wars.

                What ... "millions" of communists in the Civil War, and even those who perished, what are you?

                After 1917 Sov. the authorities brought up TENS of million Komsomol members and communists in Soviet schools, universities and collectives (there was no other government and schools).

                They all died in the Second World War?
                Quote: Doccor18
                They are not the fruits of the Soviet system, but of that caste by the hands of drivers who were raised by the "maize and co" ...

                They were born, raised, entered - BEFORE the corn man
                1. Doccor18
                  Doccor18 8 December 2021 14: 50
                  +5
                  Quote: Olgovich
                  They were born, raised, entered - BEFORE the corn man

                  Yah? EBN joined the ranks of the CPSU in 1961, Gorbachev at 52, at the end of the leader's life.

                  Quote: Olgovich
                  What ... "millions" of communists in the Civil War, and even those who perished, what are you?

                  Do not pull a single phrase out of the text.
                  Quote: Doccor18
                  Millions of ideological communists died during the revolution and civil war, during the years of repression, in the Finnish and Great Patriotic Wars. They still remained ...

                  Ideological ... And whether they were communists (with crusts), or not, the tenth thing ... Communist in soul and heart, so most of them died.
                  1. Olgovich
                    Olgovich 8 December 2021 16: 06
                    -10
                    Quote: Doccor18
                    Yah? EBN joined the ranks of the CPSU in 1961, Gorbachev at 52, at the end of the leader's life.

                    they grew up and TRAINED / formed exclusively under the leader-age 22 years in 1953, for a long time in the Komsomol.

                    Just a FACT: the system simply could not give birth to ANY worthy leader of owls: gave birth only Labeled, Kravchuk, EBN and Shevardnadze. ALL.


                    Stalins formed before the thief
                    Quote: Doccor18

                    Do not pull a single phrase out of the text.
                    Quote: Doccor18
                    Millions of ideological communists died during the revolution and civil war, during the years of repression, in the Finnish and Great Patriotic Wars. They still remained ...

                    again: After 1917 owls. brought up by the authorities TENS of million Komsomol members and communists in Soviet schools, Universities and collectives (there were no other authorities and schools).
                    and they did NOT die in the Second World War. Or owls. the schools brought up the wrong ones.?
                    Quote: Doccor18
                    Ideological ... And whether they were communists (with crusts), or not, the tenth thing ... Communist in soul and heart, so most of them died.

                    most survived. At the same time, new tens of millions were brought up, who did not get to the front because of their age, in the same Stalinist schools. Were there any ideological ones among them? Where did they die?
          2. g1v2
            g1v2 8 December 2021 13: 32
            +2
            That is, 80 percent of the CPSU and its entire leadership were not communists? belay I've never seen a single high-ranking member of the CPSU who, after the collapse of the USSR, would continue to preach and build communism. The leadership of the republics generally arranged fiefdoms for themselves. How did it happen that in that same "great" political system, all the hands of the party, which rose from the very bottom and passed the entire career ladder, turned out to be "wrong" communists? How did it happen that the most super-super correct system raised the people who destroyed the country to the top? And why the Supreme Soviet and these very deputies, who did not defend her, the "collective farm workers", but calmly voted for the collapse? request
            The problem was that the Soviet system had a number of critical problems and was sick, as a result of which it quickly rotted by historical standards. As before, RI had a number of difficult problems that a skilled hand-in could have eliminated and corrected. But as in the late RI, and in the late USSR, the hand-in was absolutely incompetent and all his attempts to save the situation made it only worse. Analogies are visible to the naked eye.
            Gorbachev = Nikolay2 = weak tsar.
            GKChP = February Revolution = coup d'etat of the beautiful-minded, but absolutely helpless idealists who destroyed the country.
            GKChP2 = VOSR = revolution during which a strong oppositionist overthrows weak functionaries.
            Yeltsin on a tank = Lenin on an armored car = an ambitious oppositionist who carried out a successful revolution with a change in the social system.
            Yeltsin Center = Mausoleum = place of worship and perpetuation of the leader for the side that won the civil war.
            Further analogies can be continued. What scares me most is that after Stalin, Khrushchev came. The repetition of this should be avoided in the first place.
            1. Doccor18
              Doccor18 8 December 2021 15: 50
              +5
              Quote: g1v2
              why the Supreme Soviet and these very deputies, who did not defend her, the "collective farm workers", but calmly voted for the collapse?

              You are an intelligent and educated person. Why then? Where are the "collective farm workers" in the late 80s ???
              Quote: g1v2
              The problem was that the Soviet system had a number of critical problems and was sick, as a result of which it quickly rotted by historical standards.

              It's funny. When you have to blame people, blame the system. But when the system has to be blamed, it is the individual people who are to blame. Comfortable.
              1. Andrey Moskvin
                Andrey Moskvin 8 December 2021 17: 28
                0
                Finding an inexhaustible theme in love and death,
                I didn’t give a damn about the portrait of the leader, because I put it on the whole system.
                I. Huberman.
              2. g1v2
                g1v2 8 December 2021 18: 00
                +2
                Exactly. I forgot Lenin = Yeltsin = German = American agent who destroyed the beautiful Russia = USSR, which we lost. And the system was mega-efficient. Only for some reason then it turns out that this system was able to destroy only a few evil "foreign agents" at several posts. Well, of course there was a mega-successful system. good
            2. Essex62
              Essex62 9 December 2021 10: 46
              0
              Those. a modern system with a "strong renewed" should be preserved by all means? He and the team of reciters of fighters, from the "saints of the 90s, are very competent, but the socio-political swamp they nurtured and cultivated is the very thing that people need?
        2. Gardamir
          Gardamir 8 December 2021 07: 11
          +7
          Even before Gorbachev as a result of the activities of the communists
          Believe it or not, even years after Gorbachev, no one is going to abolish the national division. Moreover, nationalities are brought into Russia and given carte blanc with the words Russians, nobody, Turks, everything.
        3. Eug
          Eug 8 December 2021 08: 21
          +5
          And did not all the would-be leaders who participated in the collapse of the USSR come to power in the CPSU?
        4. Palmyra
          Palmyra 8 December 2021 18: 14
          +3
          And now the Russians are hawling this Ukrainization with ladles.
        5. datura23
          datura23 10 December 2021 05: 23
          +1
          Krasnodrotov really hurts his eyes
    3. Stas157
      Stas157 8 December 2021 08: 06
      +9
      ... As a result, according to the document signed by three groups of traitors, "the USSR as a subject of international law and geopolitical reality ceases to exist."

      And who gave them such powers? How legitimate was this document?

      Everything came from the weakness of Gorbachev, who, firstly, allowed this situation, and secondly, did not arrest the conspirators after.
    4. Silver bullet
      Silver bullet 8 December 2021 08: 12
      +4
      "This is where it started"
      It started a little earlier, and this is already "work"
      1. faiver
        faiver 8 December 2021 09: 24
        +2
        the camera is clearly not a FED ... hi
      2. Hlavaty
        Hlavaty 8 December 2021 11: 25
        +9
        "What disgusting faces!" (film "Gentlemen of Fortune")
      3. tralflot1832
        tralflot1832 8 December 2021 12: 26
        +3
        The bag is not Birkin, the iconic Birkin model appeared in 1984. hi
    5. akarfoxhound
      akarfoxhound 8 December 2021 14: 48
      +4
      And there was someone to continue at all stages. Here some ask what the generals called to defend the Motherland did:
      Sold army. ZakVO. 1991 - 1993
      https://oper--1974-livejournal-com.turbopages.org/oper-1974.livejournal.com/s/559601.html Хорошая статья от очевидца
  2. Vladimir Vladimirovich Vorontsov
    Vladimir Vladimirovich Vorontsov 8 December 2021 05: 33
    +10
    December 8, 1991, a group, in legal terms, organized by prior conspiracy represented by B. Yeltsin, L. Kravchuk and S. Shushkevich with involved accomplices actually carried out a coup d'état

    ***
    «Cursed son of the perilous Judas, whether he chokes for the love of money "...
    ***
    1. Uncle lee
      Uncle lee 8 December 2021 06: 00
      +14
      the team that made betrayal in December 1991 it continues its activities very successfully today. Yes, Yeltsin, Burbulis, Shakhrai, Gaidar were replaced by younger Putin, Gref, Chubais, Medvedev, Nabiullina and others.
      Roman, bravo! good
      1. Des
        Des 8 December 2021 07: 16
        -17
        Nevertheless, it was with GDP that Russia became strong.
        1. Uncle lee
          Uncle lee 8 December 2021 07: 39
          +16
          But under Stalin, Khrushchev, Brezhnev she was so small, weak ...
          1. Des
            Des 8 December 2021 07: 56
            +1
            ))) Bravo. Compare the great USSR and Russia. We proceed from what is now). Good luck.
            1. 2 Level Advisor
              2 Level Advisor 8 December 2021 09: 12
              0
              and with whom to compare? with Angola? or 90s? How many decades will we look at them - this is already the past .. you need to look ahead .. however, if it is necessary, let's take a look at the past - do you think it was better in 1917-1925 than in the 90s? yes, many times worse - the initial conditions for recovery were after the Civil War .. but literally in 15 years they did what is really called "get up off your knees", and not a parody of this action .. also won the Second World War .. let's compare with this time , Alexander? but in general, it is customary to equalize with the strong in normal people ..
            2. The comment was deleted.
        2. Des
          Des 8 December 2021 08: 49
          -4
          PS With all due respect) - anonymous "minusers" are like people who do not have the ability to express their point of view, driven by a single predetermined algorithm of behavior and, as a result, afraid of responsibility for their actions. Nevertheless, I wish you health and good mood).
          1. tatra
            tatra 8 December 2021 09: 19
            +6
            What the country will be like, how the people will live, depends not on the entire people, but only on those who own the country. How can the Russian Federation be strong if the enemies of the Communists, who seized the RSFSR, ruined all branches of Russia, proved that they are only capable of parasitizing at the expense of the Soviet legacy, including the raw materials and industrial sectors, and imports?
            If their cowardly "ideology" for all 30 years "and we have nothing to do with it, it’s all the communists are to blame," "but we have nothing to do with it, this was before us, we still loose it"?
            If the cowardly "ideology" of Putinism in the style of "The Tsar is good. These are the boyars are bad", that is, shifting responsibility for what is happening in Russia from Putin to his subordinates?
            How can a country be strong if its ideology is a slander against the history of its country and people, justification of criminals in the history of its country?
          2. Gardamir
            Gardamir 8 December 2021 10: 09
            +8
            Well, try to state your point of view in such a way that you would like to put a plus. What is the strength of the state? And in what way this power is expressed under Putin. As an example, there are more billionaires and guest workers.
            1. Des
              Des 8 December 2021 18: 44
              +3
              Quote: Gardamir
              try to state your point of view in such a way that you would like to put a plus. What is the strength of the state? And in what way this power is expressed under Putin. As an example, there are more billionaires and guest workers.
              We will not focus on +), I will just answer. In order: the strength of the state in its army, economy, welfare of the people, independent politics. Under Putin, all these components have become "better": re-equipment and financing of the army and navy; agriculture and industry are stable (unprofitable enterprises do not count); whatever one may say - people have become more prosperous (but we have to look for a job, alas. But from my pensioners friends - they found everything); about politics ... "In what way is this power expressed under Putin." for me personally, the return of Crimea is quite enough. Yes, all of this is not better enough and more. Therefore, I am not happy with GDP. About mill-in and gast-in, etc. - capitalism with our face.
        3. faiver
          faiver 8 December 2021 09: 30
          +8
          Aren't you funny yourself? "Strong Russia" is kicked by all and sundry, but there is nothing to say about domestic politics - the official Rosstat average salary in the country has grown from 2013 to 2021 from 29792 rubles to 51083 rubles, that is, from $ 940 to $ 708.
          1. The comment was deleted.
  3. sergo1914
    sergo1914 8 December 2021 05: 35
    +20
    Heavy feeling from the article. I have lost the ideal world in which I grew up and was raised. A civilization of goodness and endless possibilities. It's a pity. In 1990 he graduated from college, got a dream job, and started a family. And then this country was gone. I'm not complaining. The 90s went very well for me. Thanks to my student friends, I managed, as they said, to "fit into the market." Well, everything went well. He jumped off the topic that had become slippery in time (the legislation changed along with the country).
    But if everything could be stopped then or returned now ... I would like that. I would like my children to live in the Union of Soviet Socialist Republics.
    1. Crowe
      Crowe 8 December 2021 05: 51
      +18
      I would like my children to live in the Union of Soviet Socialist Republics.
      It is quite understandable desire of parents: free kindergartens, education, medicine, housing - all this was ...
      1. Doccor18
        Doccor18 8 December 2021 08: 06
        +19
        Quote: Crowe
        parents.Free kindergartens, education, medicine ...

        You know, it's not even so much about free things. Now that level is unattainable for a fee. Now and for a lot of money you will not get that Human relationship between people. When almost the entire village gathered for the construction of a house, of its own free will. They worked briskly and cheerfully. And then everyone celebrated at a huge table, sitting on boards laid at the ends on two stools. And there were fights out of stupidity. And in the morning they laughed at the sight of "friendly" bruises and went to work together. Where is all this? Is it possible to buy or return it. When we, kids, were leaving the devil knows where to go for a walk, and our parents had no thoughts in their heads that something terrible could happen to us, or someone might offend. This is what is missing, greatly lacking. It is real to make money now, but that atmosphere, perhaps, will never be returned. She left with our grandfathers and fathers ...
        1. Crowe
          Crowe 8 December 2021 08: 09
          +17
          I completely agree with you on all points!
    2. Flooding
      Flooding 8 December 2021 06: 24
      +1
      Quote: sergo1914
      I would like that. I would like my children to live in the Union of Soviet Socialist Republics.

      provided that there would be no more Judas.
      that citizens would not allow their country to collapse in the future.
      otherwise, the children would have to go through what their parents and grandfathers experienced.

      When I thought about it, I came to the conclusion that we are better. if it was inevitable.
      and let the children build a better world.
      1. tatra
        tatra 8 December 2021 09: 22
        +8
        "A better world" will be built by the sons and daughters of the enemies of the communists. After their counter-revolution in Perestroika, they returned everything that was in the Russian Empire, including the closed "social elevators" for the people.
      2. Essex62
        Essex62 9 December 2021 10: 56
        0
        Alas, in the world of cash, such a humane world cannot be built.
    3. Vlad69
      Vlad69 8 December 2021 08: 12
      +4
      I found the USSR at a fully conscious age (well, not without youthful naivety) and I can quite compare what and how. It's hard to say after years. A lot of good and superfluous too. But this is how the system worked. And at the expense of feeding a bum. How many loafers we fed all over the world, but it was not very successful to feed our people. No, I did not starve and I am not a supporter of gluttony and a consumer society. But still. And so yes, nostalgia is present in something. And one more thing: in 4 days I am flying to Sri Lanka, just like that and on my own. With an alliance, it was not worth dreaming about this. But is this an indicator?
      1. Aviator_
        Aviator_ 8 December 2021 08: 46
        +6
        I found the USSR at a fully conscious age (well, not without youthful naivety)

        This was the late USSR, which really had a lot of defects. And even he is an unattainable model today. I lived a little more in the USSR (in February 1990 I defended my dissertation). According to my parents' stories and my own understanding, I think that the most optimal was the USSR in the early 1950s, before Khrushchev's "thaw" (slush). Brezhnev had the opportunity to return to this path in 1969, during Stalin's jubilee, but the "creative intelligentsia" of democratic nationality was very much afraid of this, there was even a letter about the inadmissibility of such a step. And Brezhnev, having restored the country after Khrushchev's experiments, let everything go by itself. It turned out to be stagnation, but it could not be eternal.
    4. Was mammoth
      Was mammoth 8 December 2021 20: 57
      +4
      Quote: sergo1914
      I would like my children to live in the Union of Soviet Socialist Republics.

      VTsIOM recently conducted a poll: "... how does the abbreviation of the USSR stand for?"
      19% could not name the Union of Soviet Socialist Republics. Of the youth, 60% deciphered correctly.
      Like this. Purposeful "correct" teaching of history is bearing fruit. The plywood of the Mausoleum on May 9 is also beaten. No wonder that Bandera is a hero in Ukraine. We are going the same road.
    5. expert
      expert 12 December 2021 14: 08
      0
      I fully support you, dear sergo1914!
      By the will of fate, living at the time of the destruction of the Union in Moldova, I then felt an absolutely clear feeling of irrevocable loss of something extremely important and dear for me. I realized that I had lost my homeland and it would no longer be there.
      I don’t want to talk about the feeling of absolutely normal, human resentment at the cries of local leaders of the “Popular Front”, they say, the invaders went out. Now I understand, this is a trifle. My homeland was taken away from me. They took everything that was very important for me, for which all of us, the boys of the 50s and 60s, were ready to give our lives.
      The soul still hurts ...
  4. north 2
    north 2 8 December 2021 05: 37
    +10
    and Gorbachev and Shakhrai with Burbulis at large in Russia, Shushkevich at large in Belarus, but
    in Ukraine, the truly Kravchuk times have come, showing what really are the goals
    were at the state. coup in 1991 - destroying the USSR to destroy Russia. So disaster
    will complete only now trying and finishing, if even these criminals-traitors are still
    in the wild.
    1. Crowe
      Crowe 8 December 2021 05: 57
      +25
      and Gorbachev and Shakhrai with Burbulis at large
      And EBNu a whole mausoleum has been planted and flowers are laid regularly ...
      1. Gardamir
        Gardamir 8 December 2021 10: 23
        +10
        And this means that the person who erects the monument to the destroyer supports the destruction.
  5. Far B
    Far B 8 December 2021 05: 39
    -1
    The Belarusians have lost the original of the Belovezhskaya agreement, which seems to hint and even call for.
    1. Bashkirkhan
      Bashkirkhan 8 December 2021 06: 45
      -11
      Quote: Dalny V
      The Belarusians have lost the original of the Belovezhskaya agreement, which seems to hint and even call for.

      Some citizens have also lost their passports and are calling for something.
  6. Pessimist22
    Pessimist22 8 December 2021 05: 41
    -6
    It was good then, but now it is bad, but what should be done so that it is not said well is a strange article.
  7. Crowe
    Crowe 8 December 2021 05: 42
    +22
    The Soviet Union, for all its disadvantages, was a country in which workers and collective farmers proved that they were able to work fruitfully without effective managers around their necks.
    In the USSR, the workers proved that they can perfectly live without the bourgeoisie, but the bourgeoisie without the workers - no.
  8. The comment was deleted.
  9. nikvic46
    nikvic46 8 December 2021 06: 22
    +5
    Roman is right. The main thing that we have lost is agreement within the country. It exists, but no one dares to designate it. The distance that was during the Cold War has disappeared. They began to show us how to live. Inside the country, you cannot immediately understand where is ours and where is someone else's. Recently, Alexander Gradsky, a member of the "Voice" on the jury, died. Now they will decide what to do not with us, but in distant Holland. "As if I live in a foreign country." And the end of the edge is not visible.
    1. Andrey VOV
      Andrey VOV 8 December 2021 09: 03
      0
      Could you explain, what does “Voice” and Holland have to do with it?
      1. nikvic46
        nikvic46 8 December 2021 10: 20
        +1
        Andrey. And because Channel 1 is a Russian channel. And only he will decide who will and what will be after the death of Gradsky. But the channel will wait for the Talpa's decision.
        1. Andrey VOV
          Andrey VOV 8 December 2021 10: 30
          +1
          Who owns the rights to the program? Yes, I think they will do everything in notifying order.
          1. nikvic46
            nikvic46 8 December 2021 11: 37
            +2
            Andrey. We think a lot. But not always everything is done according to ours. Together with imports, their customs flow to us. And as you know, all bad things are very contagious.
            1. Andrey VOV
              Andrey VOV 8 December 2021 12: 32
              0
              Well, their morals began to flow to us a long time ago, and the transmission of voice, you see, is not the worst thing that flowed to us
  10. avia12005
    avia12005 8 December 2021 06: 22
    +8
    Tough, but true from first to last word.
  11. Avior
    Avior 8 December 2021 06: 23
    +13
    The first, as you remember, was Ukraine. Then the Baltics, Moldova, Georgia, Armenia and Azerbaijan fell off. As a result, Russia, Belarus, Kazakhstan, Uzbekistan, Turkmenistan, Kyrgyzstan and Tajikistan were left to “think about” the Union.

    It made sense for the author to recall the "parade of sovereignties"

    Armenia did not formally accept the Declaration of Sovereignty, but announced its withdrawal from the USSR on August 23, 1990.
    And after the "parade of sovereignties" in the summer of 1990, everything rolled upward: (((
    1. Crowe
      Crowe 8 December 2021 07: 19
      +14
      They also forgot to mention Yeltsin with his "Take as much sovereignty as you can swallow."
  12. kepmor
    kepmor 8 December 2021 06: 31
    -12
    well, everything ... right now, the smearing of snot on "quickly and innocently killed" will begin again ...
    I am always touched by the blatant hypocrisy of all these mourning mourners in the USSR ...
    where were you in August 91 ???? ...
    Why didn’t they go to disperse the crowd of thousands of Yeltsin supporters with pissing rags together with the paratroopers ??? ...
    Well, where and when were the countless rallies with strikes of supporters of the preservation of the USSR along the edges and scales of the immense union ??? ...
    Yes, nothing like this was born all over the country ...
    the population, as always, did not give a damn about all these tricks up and their own destiny ...
    the bulk simply survived in this country of a total deficit of everything and everyone ...
    even in the army and navy, there were no further movements in support of the GKChPists ... for example, in the Northern Fleet they stupidly began to put them on high alert with the announcement of a petition for the State Emergency Committee ... well, they were disturbed for a couple of days and that's it ... BG-2 and beyond according to the schedule ... our IPC division was simply kicked out for two days to search for mythical submarines at sea ...
    by the way, the officers and midshipmen were either on the side of Yeltsin, or indifferent observers ... there were practically no supporters of the marked ...
    in short, we are all to blame for everything ... with our indifference and cowardice, we have profited everything, why now pour crocodile tears and sprinkle ashes on bald spots ...
    late, comrades ... late ...
    1. Crowe
      Crowe 8 December 2021 07: 27
      +24
      I cannot agree with you. What is my fault here - I worked at a factory and did not want any changes. What is my fault? The fact that he did not take a gun and did not go to the barricades? So many people regret it now, but now you are blaming the people and the hard workers, you yourself, they say, are to blame. We were in factories and in the fields at that time, working. And there are questions about the law enforcement system and the army - where were they and why, according to the Oath, they did not defend the USSR?
      1. Olgovich
        Olgovich 8 December 2021 11: 33
        -8
        Quote: Crowe
        I cannot agree with you. What is my fault here - I worked at a factory and did not want any changes. What is my fault? The fact that he did not take a gun and did not go to the barricades?

        Yes, I think that it was you and all your comrades who had to go, and go massively and loudly, to demonstrations, barricades, strikes, to your headquarters and district committees - DEMAND ACTION to save the country and do it not in December 1991 but, at least , with 1989 g... What, didn't you see WHAT was going on? Have you seen! AND ? And nothing.

        And it was obvious and convex precisely in the national republics.

        And my comrades and I went, demanded, wrote, elected our deputies, FOR THE UNION, BUT, how many of us were there? An insignificant number! And we had nothing - no funds, no premises, no press, no support for the so-called. "Communist Party".


        Yes, and the absolute majority of the people were completely overwhelmed by what was happening.

        And what about the so-called. "pegedian" otgad,
        so-called Communist Party?

        And in the republics she absolutely calmly looked at the wild growth of nationalism, Did NOTHING even for simple observance of just the LAWS of the USSR and the communists themselves stood ... at the head of the nationalists and voted for independence.

        Would come out Millions of since 1989, nothing would have happened, the authorities would have had to listen.

        And so, everyone “just” worked at the factory, just in the field, just served in the army and the police, in the KGB, they also just waited for orders from someone. Wait?

        And YOURSELF, what ?! And themselves ... nothing ...

        And who are the complaints?
        1. Essex62
          Essex62 9 December 2021 11: 14
          0
          At that time it was not yet clear what was happening. There was no direct slogan "down with socialism, long live capitalism". Even now, not everyone is capable of thinking with their heads and drawing conclusions from the facts, and the situation in the country, due to the efforts of the saboteurs, was very disliked by the population. It supported the changes without going into essence. Many argued using fabulous criteria. Preservation of all the goodies of socialism, with the possibilities of capitalism. You shouldn't blame people for this. They, who are still alive to this day, gnaw the air in the elbow area. But later, when the realization came, there was an attempt to stop the restoration. Serious try. Only the law enforcement agencies filtered the contra by their people, and the man in uniform does not do anything without an order.
          National republics are another story. The Balts, for the most part, hated the USSR, Central Asia never left feudalism. Well, the Caucasus shared in half in determining how to live on.
          1. Olgovich
            Olgovich 9 December 2021 11: 25
            0
            Quote: Essex62
            At that time it was not yet clear what was happening. There was no direct slogan "down with socialism, long live capitalism". Even now, not everyone is capable of thinking with their heads and drawing conclusions from the facts, and the situation in the country, due to the efforts of the saboteurs, was very disliked by the population.

            talk about preservation / disintegration country.

            And in the national republics it was the first question. Inter-movements, Interfronts were abandoned by the communist authorities to their fate, defamed and persecuted by it, but, in fact, the Popular Fronts headed by the communists were supported and indulged.

            Society of the RSFSR did not give a damn about republican nationalism at all.
            1. Essex62
              Essex62 10 December 2021 10: 10
              0
              This you definitely noticed, exactly what does not give a damn. The time of niggas and careerists. With and without a party card. The absence of a real, and not a formal, class struggle could not but lead to the collapse. The working class is obliged to keep the stranglehold on the money-grubber's throat, even if he skillfully disguises himself and speaks the right words. Alas, the communists were no longer there. Local kings striving for sole power and, most importantly, personal wealth, on "legal" grounds.
              1. Olgovich
                Olgovich 10 December 2021 10: 19
                -1
                Quote: Essex62
                Alas, the communists were no longer there.

                and where did they ... go? belay request
                1. Essex62
                  Essex62 10 December 2021 10: 30
                  -2
                  So degenerated. You can't get into everyone's head. Here already from the field of psychology and instincts. Therefore, those who are at the machine, behind the levers in the field and on the rails, who are in the face and at sea with a trawl, must keep a close eye on their servants in a warm office, rotten anti-ligenies.
                  1. Olgovich
                    Olgovich 10 December 2021 11: 39
                    -1
                    Quote: Essex62
                    So degenerated.

                    they were under tsarism, but under the native people's power, where they were raised and brought up specially, as in a greenhouse ... degenerated? belay

                    and, by the way, and kommunitsy, who are at the machine, behind the levers in the field and on the rails, who are in the face and at sea with a trawl -...... where did they go in their kommstran?
                    1. Essex62
                      Essex62 12 December 2021 11: 45
                      0
                      The fact of the matter is that in the greenhouse. Rejection of the real class struggle leads to degradation. The counter must be punctured relentlessly, otherwise it will sit on a working person's neck. What we actually observe.

                      Do not go anywhere. I'm alive. Which decomposed, without a rod, they were not.
    2. tatra
      tatra 8 December 2021 09: 26
      +3
      And I am "touched" by the cowardice of the enemies of the USSR who seized the USSR.
      For 30 years you have cowardly blamed on the communists and their supporters the responsibility for the seizure and dismemberment of the USSR by you into your evil anti-Soviet-Russophobic states.
    3. Gardamir
      Gardamir 8 December 2021 10: 31
      +6
      It is naive and foolish to think that someone should have come out. Did the enemies attack us? How the Congress of People's Deputies was seething. They understood the rare, like Nina Andreeva. But no one listened to her, only laughed.
      Isn't that right now? And again, after years someone will ask why they didn’t come out? ..
    4. Unknown
      Unknown 8 December 2021 15: 15
      +6
      Quote: kepmor
      I am always touched by the blatant hypocrisy of all these mourning mourners in the USSR ...
      where were you in August 91 ???? ...
      why didn’t they go to disperse the crowd of thousands of Yeltsin supporters with pissing rags together with the paratroopers ??? ..

      Where were that, you ask? Yes, where they were. Someone together and the Riga OMON
      I drove Natsiks in Latvia, and would drive them back into the holes where they were sitting. They believed they would return, but with this power ... only letters
      In the RFSR itself, they jammed in all media, rallies for the USSR
      When the situation in Mol SSR was already heating up, and there was only one step to blood
      We must ask, where were you and yours? Remind me?
      From there all sorts of memorials, interregional groups
      etc. I don’t want to remember when blood was already shed on the outskirts, mainly, as it is now customary to say "Russian-speaking" [center][/ center] yours muddied the water in Moscow
      So we will not, who was where, and at whose mill, water poured. We got used to poking where we were, etc., where we ourselves were, the memory was knocked out. Comrade Stalin was right a thousand times when he said “we rallied and strengthened this state as a single, indivisible state ... would exist independently and would inevitably fall into someone else's bondage. Therefore, everyone who tries to destroy this unity of the socialist state, who seeks to separate from it a separate part and nationality, he is an enemy, a sworn enemy of the state, the peoples of the USSR. And we will destroy every such enemy , if he were an old Bolshevik, we will destroy his entire family, his family. Everyone who, by his actions and thoughts, yes, and thoughts, encroaches on the unity of the socialist state, we will mercilessly destroy " Kravchuk wore a hawka for Bandera, the father of Landsbergis, that's what the same wiki is about him "At the beginning of Germany's aggression against the Soviet Union, The free Front of Lithuanian activists (Lietuvos aktyvistų frontas) formed the Provisional Government of Lithuania headed by Colonel Kazis Škirpa, former ambassador of independent Lithuania to Germany. The provisional government announced its existence and the restoration of the state's independence on June 23, 1941, nominally having existed for six weeks. Vytautas Landsbergis-Zemkalnis held the post of Minister of Public Utilities. On June 25, he signed a letter of gratitude to Hitler, in which he asked for the nationalization of property belonging to "Jews and persons who actively acted against the interests of the Lithuanian people," someone from the family was against the USSR. The Soviet government was merciful, oh merciful.
  13. Lech from Android.
    Lech from Android. 8 December 2021 06: 33
    +5
    And where was the all-powerful and omnipotent KGB at that time?
    It seems that his fight against traitors and traitors is in the first place ... why this organization was not able to stop the process of decomposition of the country from above?
    I cannot understand how the most powerful special service lost control of the situation in the country ... and what was the Ministry of Internal Affairs doing? ... and the army?
    These three power structures could do nothing against the destruction of the country from above.
    The process of destruction of the country in what is similar to 1917 ... also everything from above collapsed.
    1. Kittymoore
      Kittymoore 8 December 2021 06: 53
      +2
      These structures control the slaves. Before the authorities, they stand with their hands at the seams and carry out orders.
      Therefore, it is strange to expect something from them.
      1. Lech from Android.
        Lech from Android. 8 December 2021 07: 01
        -2
        Bakatin sold the secrets of wiretapping to the Americans ... this is already a crime ... really in this organization there was no principled officer to prosecute the traitor ... where did the prosecutor's office look?
        They openly traded the secrets of the Motherland ... where were the supervisory authorities?
        The powerlessness of the authorities towards traitors of the highest rank led to the destruction of the country ... why was Shevardnadze not imprisoned for surrendering our territories to the Americans?
        Where was the CPSU Central Committee looking?
        They sold the country at the very top and then they wonder why the country collapsed ... with such a betrayal, it was inevitable.
        1. Kittymoore
          Kittymoore 8 December 2021 07: 06
          +3
          Yes, you I see contra.
          This Bakatin of yours is an important person, a representative of the upper class. Who will judge him?

          The prosecutor's office does not offend the boyars. She looks after the slaves who use cassette tapes.
          1. Lech from Android.
            Lech from Android. 8 December 2021 07: 24
            -3
            I'm not just a contra ... I'm also a pimple in the boyars' ass. smile
            But imagine if there are thousands and thousands of such acne ... the boyars will have to treat their sirloin, and not drive slaves with cassettes.
            1. Kittymoore
              Kittymoore 8 December 2021 07: 26
              +1
              Rather, you will have to purchase thousands of mops for preventive procedures. A good acne remedy.
              1. Lech from Android.
                Lech from Android. 8 December 2021 07: 45
                -3
                It will not work ... mops will not help ... you need to lead a healthy lifestyle ... not drink ... girls in Courchevel should not be squeezed and generally observe the 10 moral commandments of Moses.
                All acne from wrong thoughts appears. what
                1. sergo1914
                  sergo1914 8 December 2021 08: 12
                  0
                  Quote: Lech from Android.
                  not to drink...


                  How's that?
                  1. Lech from Android.
                    Lech from Android. 8 December 2021 08: 35
                    +3
                    How like ... Yeltsin as an example for us ... drank like a pig ... a drunk falls out of the plane into a hollow and immediately poured over the landing gear ... and all this in front of the astonished Europeans ... here's a circus ... I'm not talking about his dances of the Papuans with conductor's batons from the Germans. belay
                    1. sergo1914
                      sergo1914 8 December 2021 08: 54
                      0
                      Quote: Lech from Android.
                      How like ... Yeltsin as an example for us ... drank like a pig ... a drunk falls out of the plane into a hollow and immediately poured over the landing gear ... and all this in front of the astonished Europeans ... here's a circus ... I'm not talking about his dances of the Papuans with conductor's batons from the Germans. belay


                      Have you compared me with Yeltsin?
                      1. Lech from Android.
                        Lech from Android. 8 December 2021 09: 00
                        -1
                        belay Of course not ... I have not seen you like Yeltsin ... you just need to drink in moderation, carefully, do not get into a fight after drinking and do not twist zagugolins.
                        And so good wine warms the soul and softens thoughts.
                      2. Konnick
                        Konnick 8 December 2021 09: 14
                        +1
                        And so good wine warms the soul and softens thoughts.

                        And promotes communication and friendship. And these figures turned out the opposite, like the chroniclers ...
                    2. Gardamir
                      Gardamir 8 December 2021 10: 40
                      +1
                      Whether it was now, I did not leave the plane, I drove up to the porch on two aurus at once, we quickly talked. And again I didn’t sit on aurus or airplanes, but already in Moscow.
                  2. Andrey Moskvin
                    Andrey Moskvin 8 December 2021 17: 42
                    +1
                    Who am I not to drink !?
                    M. Zhvanetsky. lol
  14. parusnik
    parusnik 8 December 2021 06: 36
    +5
    At the same time, some part of Russian citizens, in their homeland, was left without a homeland, only they do not talk about it, it is not convenient in front of those who did it, now they are faithfully serving the new government.
  15. samarin1969
    samarin1969 8 December 2021 06: 38
    +7
    And ... the newly-minted presidents of the newly-minted republics rushed to independence no worse than racehorses, who went ahead.

    And not only "presidents" ... All "titular nations" together and massively rushed to their usual way of life: bays, farms, nomad camps, Vainakhs, independents, etc. "tick tokers"! Come on, fathers of families, "Soviet men" in the second generation, the intelligentsia. The third generation is already growing up in these republics, which sincerely rejoice in "fleeing from Russia." Vaughn, yesterday, the proud Pamiri was marked by yet another Russophobia. And the entire "social camp" also instantly forgave us post-war aid and industrial modernization in Eastern Europe.
    1991 is a natural outcome of naive "class solidarity" with short-sighted "national politics".
    1. Silver bullet
      Silver bullet 8 December 2021 07: 39
      +2
      You write correctly, look at the root. It was not in Pushcha that the Union was ruined, but long before that work had begun on the birth and nurturing of national elites. A whole institute worked in the states for each union republic. They sorted out all mutual grievances and strife in Central Asia, the Caucasus and Transcaucasia, the subtleties of the Baltic republics. They set them on fire from all sides, knowing that the marked one would no longer be able to resist decay. I talked with one reserve colonel 20 years ago, he witnessed Shevardnadze's surrender to the Germans during the negotiations in Foros on the unification of Germany and the withdrawal of the Western Group of Forces. So, omitting the details, he said that after the discussion and statement of our position, the Germans did not believe their ears, they thought it was some kind of tricky game. They were ready for a gradual process with a leisurely withdrawal of our troops to the prepared infrastructure built at their expense, and not the flight of the group on the orders of the hump. We drank and had fun all night. And then yes, it went off like people write above.
  16. Dimy4
    Dimy4 8 December 2021 07: 25
    +7
    It hurts to read all this, I was still young, only I got a job at the plant. Not long after all this leapfrog, the plant existed and a decent number of former workers went out the gates, to meet capitalism.
    1. ivan2022
      ivan2022 8 December 2021 08: 02
      +7
      Quote: Dimy4
      It hurts to read all this, I was still young, only I got a job at the plant. Not long after all this leapfrog, the plant existed and a decent number of former workers went out the gates, to meet capitalism.

      They didn't come out. They voted FOR PRIVATIZATION, and then they got a good and very deserved kick in the ass. and flew out into the street.
      1. 2 Level Advisor
        2 Level Advisor 8 December 2021 09: 27
        +1
        when was the vote for privatization?
        1. ivan2022
          ivan2022 8 December 2021 10: 30
          +2
          Quote: 2 level advisor
          when was the vote for privatization?

          Then when it started all over the place. Even slogans hung everywhere. There was democracy and the election of directors. It was then that the people at the meetings of collectives and chose ... Then I almost got to a fight with fools. Can you convince me? Well, then the layoffs began, and they were driven out into the street, to the markets, by shuttles, fools ... Live as you can, prove that you are real men!
          Correctly wrote the poet Nekrasov: "A man like a bull, he will get into his head, what a whim ...."
          1. 2 Level Advisor
            2 Level Advisor 8 December 2021 11: 06
            +1
            I understood what you mean, Ivan .. I meant in general the privatization itself as a phenomenon and the possibility of its appearance ... but at the local level, you are right .. although it is possible that many worthy people were chosen, but what could they have done in that economic situation, when almost all connections for raw materials and sales of products disappeared, and the majority of enterprises were not sharpened for independent "navigation"? here a good director is not much, much higher than the concept of "a good director" is needed to settle it ..
      2. Gardamir
        Gardamir 8 December 2021 10: 43
        0
        What difference then believed in privatization, now they believe in vaccination.
  17. don-1500
    don-1500 8 December 2021 07: 25
    +5
    I remember the airport in Zaporozhye, in Soviet times. There the movements were Heathrow resting. The last time I flew to my grandmother on vacation was in the summer of 1990 (then I still remember Choi died). I flew in on a direct flight Stavropol-Eaporozhye, and there were no flights, the schedule was huge, people lived in the same country. My cousin Edik I remember then said: here we will separate from you from Russia, we will live like France. Lace pancake pancake
    1. Avior
      Avior 8 December 2021 11: 16
      +3
      Sorry, but your example does not quite fit into the general outline of the discussion.
      The fact is that the airport in Zaporozhye is still working very well with a large passenger traffic, there are regular flights and charters, both international and domestic.
      Under three dozen only regular flights a day
      https://ozh.aero/ru/servisy/flight-schedule/
      and noticeable passenger traffic
      In January 2020, Zaporozhye International Airport served 43 passengers.

      This is 39,6% more than in the same period in 2019, the CFTS reports, citing data from the utility.

      https://cfts.org.ua/news/2020/02/24/aeroport_zaporozhe_v_yanvare_uvelichil_passazhiropotok_na_40_57466
      In 2020, a new modern international airport was built in Zaporozhye in addition to the domestic one, much larger than the old one.


      hi
      1. don-1500
        don-1500 8 December 2021 13: 01
        +1
        I’m not against it, I’m even glad that we have built a new terminal, everything should develop. My message was that even such a backwater as my Stavropol sent flights there and people flew. And there are still many places, all sorts of Tyumen, Kustanai. Now I think you will not argue that half of these 30 flights are Kiev and the other half is Turkey, Egypt. Now, behind a touch of nostalgia and long years ago, the feeling that we were one country has disappeared and this feeling cannot be returned.
        1. Avior
          Avior 8 December 2021 13: 19
          +1
          you are right, Hungary, Poland, Austria - well, Turkey and Egypt, it is clear where without them, but there are no Russian flights.
          I think there is a chance to return at least one country, but there is still a feeling of unity, community, but for this a miracle should happen, except that: (((
  18. avia12005
    avia12005 8 December 2021 07: 33
    +5
    For some reason, the initiators and implementers of the collapse of the USSR like to portray themselves as Extremely Wise Organizers. Abbreviated -. Is it by chance?
  19. Sankiny
    Sankiny 8 December 2021 07: 42
    +6
    everyone has their own truth

  20. Vlad world
    Vlad world 8 December 2021 08: 04
    -1
    Oops how Russian Looting supporters got excited. It must be the same, starting from the 24th year, huge sums of money were withdrawn from Russia in favor of the "brothers" for food. In the USSR, Russia, in addition to payments to the budget of the USSR, which only she paid and sometimes Belarus, another 30% of income was withdrawn in favor of the "fraternal" republics. For food. Yeltsin - how not to treat him - tried from the beginning to get this money back, but he was sent with this far and for a long time. So the main donor, a small donor and a possible donor, gathered and closed this office for feeding the "brothers" at the expense of Russia.
    And the crying is mainly either those who lived "under communism" or supporters of the continuation of "robbery" or people yearning for Youth.

    Oh, what will begin now.
    1. sergo1914
      sergo1914 8 December 2021 08: 19
      +1
      Quote: Vlad-world
      huge sums were withdrawn from Russia in favor of the "brothers" for food


      W - Chechnya ... continue? About feeding. Some fell off, others stuck. How much do officials of the Pension Fund of Russia, the Duma, and Sam cost now? And earlier they did everything by hand, now it is a computer, and there are more “civil servants”. Donors decided to suck themselves. And the composition. In friends company.
      1. Vlad world
        Vlad world 14 December 2021 07: 35
        0
        1-What new republics have joined Russia for 30 years to "suck".
        Donbass can be ignored. And Chechnya was a part of Russia.
        2-You know how to count - Somewhere 150 million mouths fell off and how many appeared.
        3- If the USSR was so good, then why did not a single "bastard" defend it. Not a single platoon, company, or regiment came to the defense. But the tsarist "prison of peoples" as the communists crackled came out to defend the volunteers and very many.
        Not a single city committee had a sign -All went to defend the USSR.
        4-USSR was so good that it was in the first place in the purchase of grain. ''
        And Russia is so "bad" that it became the world leader in grain sales.
    2. 2 Level Advisor
      2 Level Advisor 8 December 2021 09: 30
      0
      well, let's talk about today .. well, then all the "freeloaders" were torn off and ... what and? what has become better for a simple hard worker?
      1. ivan2022
        ivan2022 8 December 2021 10: 35
        0
        Quote: 2 level advisor
        well, let's talk about today .. well, then all the "freeloaders" were torn off and ... what and? what has become better for a simple hard worker?

        Some people still believe that Chubais freed them from the oppression of the union republics, and the whole kotovasia began with a strong concern for the people's happiness ..... As long as I live, I am so surprised.
      2. Vlad world
        Vlad world 14 December 2021 07: 45
        0
        I now know hard workers and many, and they began to live Better.
        A "simple" hard worker - read the classic Soviet Union lazy, then yes, alas, We must work. And if you don't want to work, then of course everything is bad. It was in the USSR that you could beat Baklushi and get money.
    3. tank64rus
      tank64rus 8 December 2021 10: 13
      +1
      Multiply this percentage of yours by 2 and put it in the pocket of the newly-born bourgeoisie who have benefited from it. The people are unlikely.
  21. Daniil Konovalenko
    Daniil Konovalenko 8 December 2021 08: 06
    +4
    I wanted the best, but it turned out as always and so for the last 30 years.
    1. tatra
      tatra 8 December 2021 09: 30
      +1
      No, they didn't. Already by the fact that the enemies of the communists for 30 years cowardly dump the blame for the destruction of the USSR on the communists, they themselves recognized the destruction of the USSR as their crime against their country and people.
      1. Daniil Konovalenko
        Daniil Konovalenko 8 December 2021 12: 12
        +2
        Irina, wanted, wanted smile What songs were sung to everyone .... "About the Dalny North!" (with) smile
        1. tatra
          tatra 8 December 2021 12: 17
          +1
          Yes, the enemies of the communists in their perestroika in EVERYTHING lied to the Soviet people, promised the people what they were not going to do.
  22. Stas157
    Stas157 8 December 2021 08: 18
    +4
    ... the site has many people, who express themselves in the style "I only began to live as a person in Russia."

    Remember the 90s. It was full of people like Lenya Golubkovs who thought: "Is it worse now!"

    I will say more. If he were the king now, his rating is no lower than that of the current one. And where are those who voted for the drunk then now? But they were the majority!
    1. Gardamir
      Gardamir 8 December 2021 10: 51
      +1
      You know where you are wrong, you forgot how it was.
      First, the fox asked to go to the porch, then to the senki, then to the sill, then to the stove. And then it started Plato, the pension reform, the pandemic. And sitting on the stove, the fox says you yourself wanted it, the samt did not come out to defend.
  23. tank66
    tank66 8 December 2021 08: 25
    +9
    dreams - dreams - where is your sweetness. in the 91st he fucked like a six-armed goddess, why feed a young family, from all the media, only that at lunchtime the korefans / elders / in the change house will tell you. Eh, I would personally bring HARE_RAMA hare bastards into this Belovezhskiy gadyushnik tada MONKu more directly request
  24. Arabfun
    Arabfun 8 December 2021 08: 54
    -1
    Preparations for the liquidation of the KGB have been going on since August. On December 3, the KGB was liquidated and only then on December 7 was the USSR liquidated. All according to plan.
    The disintegration of Russia will be the same. Initially, according to the scenario of the GDR, the Belgorod, Voronezh, Rostov regions will be annexed to Ukraine, with the withdrawal of military bases 30 km from the border, which seem to have been equipped for centuries. Then the FSB will be liquidated, and within 3 days Russia will be liquidated at night. Another drunk from civilians will create the Moscow Republic, the rest of the republics and even the regions will proclaim independence in the context of a thaw in international relations and detente. In a terrible rush, the distraught elites will drain everything (based on Interfax "on this day 30 years ago)
    1. 2 Level Advisor
      2 Level Advisor 8 December 2021 11: 15
      0
      in pure theory, your plan has a place to be .. I agree about the USSR, but the USSR was an ideological enemy to the "West" - preventing the building of hegemony on the planet .. (although I'm not at all sure that they wanted to destroy it, and not just change the system) .. and the Russian Federation is now part of the capitalist world, which fought against the USSR and .. so why ruin it? it is an enemy than preventing to rule the world - "west"? and one is easier to control than 10 ...
      1. ivan2022
        ivan2022 8 December 2021 13: 18
        0
        Quote: Level 2 Advisor
        RF is now part of the capitalist world, which fought against the USSR and .. so why ruin it?

        What about resources and territories? Especially during the warming period.
        Why did you start PMA in due time? For mastering colonies, resources. Although a hundred years ago there was already a global system.
        They destroyed the USSR, got uranium from Kazakhstan, uranium and gold from Kyrgyzstan, manganese from Georgia. Huge new colonies ... Now Kazakhs are the main suppliers of uranium to the United States. And the Russians will not be overjoyed that they have "freed themselves from the oppression of the union republics." But how many good things still remain in Russia itself ..... If necessary, we will repeat!
        1. 2 Level Advisor
          2 Level Advisor 8 December 2021 13: 39
          +1
          1. Territory .. and what already from overpopulation some kind of "western" country suffers on the most I can not? even in China there are still enough uninhabited areas .. for example, New York at the level of our Caucasus .. at the level of Moscow in general, almost no one lives in North America .. warming? even if it will be (which I personally do not believe) - in Canada there are dofig and more places .. and not tundra, but forests ... much easier - to Canada or across the ocean to a "friendly" captured country?
          2. resources .. "They destroyed the USSR - they got uranium from Kazakhstan, uranium and gold from Kyrgyzstan, manganese from Georgia. Huge new colonies ... And the Russians will not get enough of that" freed themselves from the oppression of the union republics. "
          You just casually mentioned Russia ... and from it they get what they want in the same way .. no difference ..
          "how many good things still remain in Russia itself .." what is left? - what do we not give to someone? for what - to repeat? create a bunch of incomprehensible unstable formations on 1/9 of the land with nuclear weapons and obscurity - what will happen as a result? stupid move ..
          Total: I repeat, for the first time it was clear, the USSR was "dumped" .. now why bring down a part of their capitalist world, which they run? does not the Russian Federation control the capital of the world, according to you? or is she not part of it? sad and sad it is .. but it is so ...
          1. ivan2022
            ivan2022 8 December 2021 17: 58
            0
            Quote: Level 2 Advisor
            ... and from her they just get what they want .. no differences. So: I repeat, the first time it was clear, the USSR was "dumped" .. now why bring down a part of their capitalist world, which they rule?

            If everything were as you think, Russia would not need to spend gigantic amounts of money on armaments. Moreover, those that are not available in the overwhelming number of countries in the world. But if this happens, then not everything the West gets what it wants. Here, too, there are oligarchs and their interests. Here is the most powerful structure of society; state apparatus. He also has his own interests.
            There is competition in any commerce - why did you decide that it does not exist at the highest level and “everything was agreed there”?
            At one time, even the question was discussed: "Why should America be at enmity with China, if China is American cuisine? Who will destroy their cuisine?" If so, why would China need such an army?
            At the beginning of the 20th century, before WWI, there were also judgments about the impossibility of large wars in an interconnected world.
            1. 2 Level Advisor
              2 Level Advisor 8 December 2021 19: 03
              0
              Well, let's start with the facts .. Do you have them? - that we don’t sell something that they really need? I do not have..
              now about the theory .. about the army .. this is how I understand your only argument? well, the army .. so what? it's like saying, once a person bought a cool machine gun, it means he’s up to something .. well, maybe he’s conceived .. but who said that it’s not so that all sorts of Ukraine and so on and didn’t even think to twitch? realizing how much cooler we are .. you have a conclusion without facts .. once we create an army, it means to fight with the United States ... why not with our neighbors?
              if the United States needed to somehow bend us, there were 90s and after several years .. in general it was easy to do .. but did not do it .. no need to think that at the top - stupid people .. they saw perfectly well that the army is being restored - this is not one year happened ..
              Why, then, is our main trading partner - the very "West"? China .. well, what about China .. you know, there are facts - WWI, WWII .. and there is PR .. USA against China, Russia, etc. .. and in fact? how they traded, so they trade, they make loot .. and until the real turmoil begins, you have facts and Ivan does not appear - only speculation based on what the media show us, just under the control of this "capital" ..
              about WWI ... in WWI it was not the power of capital as such that decided - the monarchy and the individual decided a lot there .. like our Nicholas 2 .. without him we would not have taken part in it unambiguously .. it’s even ridiculous to compare - the power of capital then and now..
              now - more often capital is stronger than the sun .. this has never happened in the history of the planet ..
          2. ivan2022
            ivan2022 8 December 2021 19: 01
            0
            Quote: Level 2 Advisor
            Total: I repeat, for the first time it was clear, the USSR was "dumped" .. now why bring down a part of their capitalist world, which they run? does not the Russian Federation control the capital of the world, according to you? or is she not part of it?

            You are reasoning somehow strange ... Do you really not understand why Russia needs an army and submarines and atomic weapons? Don't you really understand?
            All the countries of the World are "parts of the system", they all have armies and all are ready to threaten anyone at the first order. Why should modern Russia be different from them?

            Is it possible for a country to exist on Earth and not be part of a common economy? Even the DPRK today trades with hundreds of states! Even the USSR was, in fact, a member of the global capital system. In a sense, also "part" ... And Germany in 1914 and 1939 was a participant and exactly part of the world system.
            The struggle is not about doing everything in the world ourselves and not being a part of something, or vice versa - becoming a part. And for the most convenient place for the elite, which a specific country can take in this global gang.
  25. Valerikk
    Valerikk 8 December 2021 09: 02
    +5
    Gorbachev was well aware of what was happening, but he did absolutely nothing to prevent the committed treason. So he can be safely ranked among the traitors to the Motherland to which he swore as president.

    And forever and ever
    Coward, traitor - always despised

    (c) V.S.Vysotsky
  26. depressant
    depressant 8 December 2021 09: 30
    +6
    Well, dear Roman, dear colleagues, it's time to sum up our bracketed results.
    It's time to tell you what's really going on. So to speak, in the realities of the current moment.
    As a consequence, I will divide my presentation into two parts. Let this be the first in which I will state my understanding of the phase into which capitalism of Western civilization has entered. And in the second part - in which we got stuck with the liquidation of the USSR.
    So the first part, presented very briefly and dryly.
    Conditional West.
    The initial period of capitalism is a dangerous and turbulent period of initial capital accumulation. Wealth has come and gone. Ups and downs. Ruin and enrichment. The general characteristics of the period are the merciless exploitation of the working man, banditry, crime, the instability of the accumulated, the possibility of losing everything. But it was during this period that the rich emerge, who survived, learned how to stand up and, pushed by the eternally entrenched fear of losing everything, suddenly realized that they could only stand up to a consolidated group, reducing competition within the group to small values ​​through constant coordination of their actions with each other and kinship. This idea was especially pronounced among financial groups and was expressed in the form of their complete consolidation. To them, production workers began to catch up and gain a foothold among them. But it was only possible to withstand the struggle against constantly emerging competitors if they maintained their wealth equally continuously. For this, wealth must work and bring not just profit, but super profit. And then the second period of Western capitalism - Industrialization - clearly manifested itself.
    Wealth grew, but there was something that constantly, at least theoretically, threatened their stability, immutability over the centuries. This something is the so-called democracy. During the period of industrialization, the population in different Western countries also received the opportunity to consolidate - into large groups based on electoral characteristics. Electoral groups vote for candidates to government bodies, accompanying the nomination with demands, and those, having entered power, under pressure from electoral groups are forced to delegate their demands to higher government bodies. In turn, the highest authorities, which are entirely made up of henchmen of a sufficiently consolidated group of the rich, are forced to broadcast the demands of the electorate to this very group of the rich, which in turn is forced to somehow react to this.
    Thus, the industrial period is characterized by the presence of direct and feedback links between the exploited electoral groups and the consolidated group of the rich. And also equality of opportunity, leading to the emergence of nouveau riche competitors. This sustained in the rich the long-standing fear of the initial accumulation of capital - the fear of losing everything. The power gained in the period of industrialization in the form of the ability to appoint their presidents and governments in any countries especially rich has already ceased to suit. Due to the forced feedback from the electorate and the dangerous equality of opportunity that supports competition, such power is not complete, which means it cannot be a guarantee of the stability of capital. And then the especially rich came to a conclusion that finally solves the problem of their fear of losing their wealth, namely:
    Absolute power.
    This type of power is power over each individual person, and not over a large group of people, consolidated within themselves, at least according to their electoral preference, - an electoral group. And through this - the destruction of competition. After all, if the electoral group can do anything, an individual, separated from the rest, can do nothing! In turn, this leads to the destruction of competitive opportunities, which means to the absolute stability of the previously acquired capital of a group of especially rich.
    And right now we are witnessing how Western capitalism has entered an active phase of realizing the absolute power of the especially rich through the destruction of electoral groups and competition, that is, through the destruction of the democracy it once needed as a mask that the time has come to throw off. Humanity must be divided into separate individuals with the subsequent establishment of absolute power over each individual. How this is done and will be done further is another question. This is the post-industrial period, so called:
    The period of initial accumulation of power.
    This is when power becomes more important than profit, it itself is capital.
    Note, I intentionally did not mention such concepts as imperialism, wars of conquest, colonization, the fall of the colonial system, the new meaning of colonialism, Marxist-Leninist ideology. Only the dry residue of each period in the development of Western capitalism, excluding the partial overlapping of periods.
    1. expert
      expert 12 December 2021 14: 23
      0
      It’s powerful, as if he was back at the institute for a lecture on "political economy".
  27. tatra
    tatra 8 December 2021 09: 35
    0
    In general, everything, as always, is the ideology of the enemies of the communists, this is the justification of the criminals of the Soviet and their evil anti-Soviet-Russophobic period, starting with their Perestroika.
    Therefore, from the republics of the USSR they captured, they created States in which not honest people and patriots live well, but criminals and enemies of their country and people.
  28. faiver
    faiver 8 December 2021 09: 37
    +6
    Novel - five points per article ....
    1. expert
      expert 12 December 2021 14: 24
      0
      I fully subscribe to the assessment.
  29. Ross xnumx
    Ross xnumx 8 December 2021 09: 53
    +4
    Even beyond these lines:
    The Soviet Union, for all its disadvantages, was a country in which workers and collective farmers proved that they were able to work fruitfully without effective managers around their necks. Our destiny is to feed the backcountrymen and support the parasites who solve their problems at our expense. This is today's Russia.

    you can "add" ...
  30. tank64rus
    tank64rus 8 December 2021 10: 08
    +4
    "On December 8, 1991, a group, speaking in legal terms, organized by a preliminary conspiracy in the person of B. Yeltsin, L. Kravchuk and S. Shushkevich, with the involved accomplices, actually carried out a coup d'etat." And they reported to the US President on the implementation. Traitors to everything and everyone.
  31. kig
    kig 8 December 2021 10: 10
    +4
    I'm back in the USSR,
    You don't know how lucky you are, boys



    Everything flows, everything changes, including the fate of people and countries. Empires fall apart - where is now the same British Empire, over which the sun never set? We, at least the majority, are not fortunate enough to live in times of change. But what is now is a reality given to us in sensations, and we have nowhere to go from it, but only try to do our job as best as possible. Unfortunately, the purpose of such work is absolutely incomprehensible, and therefore the result will be appropriate. That is, none. Our wise leadership seems to understand this, but can not grope for a national idea in any way. No matter how it remembers that the people most willingly merge into one whole in the event of great upheavals. Well, that is, what will be left of the people.
  32. Terran ghost
    Terran ghost 8 December 2021 10: 54
    +3
    It was this group that prepared what was then called the Bialowieza Agreement, and now it can be safely called the Bialowieza Treachery

    "Now" is it 20-30 years after the event itself?
    Let me repeat briefly about the nature of the events at that time. The Union of SSR, whether someone likes it or not, from the beginning to the very end of its existence was an ideocratic state, built around the Marxist-Leninist idea. Ideas that a) communism can be built in the foreseeable future of the present generation, and b) it is possible to build it by the methods used by the RCP (b) -VKP (b) -KPSS.
    So, by the mid-late 1980s, faith in the above postulates was lost both among the leading nomenclature of the USSR and among the majority of the population of the Soviet Union. Nina Andreeva, who wrote the newspaper article "I can not sacrifice my principles," and those like her in the way of thinking were then in a marginal minority.
    Hence, it is completely unsurprising that the leaders of the Union republics almost instantly turned into those who were called "bourgeois nationalists" during the Soviet Union era, with the subsequent, alas, a natural ending in the form of the collapse of the Union itself.
    The Russian economy has received a deep knockout and still cannot recover.

    The level of the gross domestic product of the Russian Federation surpassed the level of the gross domestic product of the RSFSR in 1990 in 2006.
    The economic transformation of 1992 - mid-1998 was, alas, extremely painful. But it, as perhaps not sadly many will realize this, was also necessary (although much could and should have been done differently, significantly easing the "blow" to the social well-being of the country's inhabitants). And yes - there were no "Chinese recipes" for the economy of the RSFSR - the Russian Federation and could not be. To say otherwise means to reveal your complete lack of understanding of the cardinal difference in the starting conditions, the structure of the economy and the problems facing it.
    But it was the same Soviet Army that could solve all the problems.

    And if Gorbachev remembered that he was the Supreme Commander-in-Chief and would simply tear up all these little pieces of paper ...

    December 1991? In the best case, his orders would have been ignored and nothing would have happened that differed noticeably from real historical events. Well, at worst, the country would face a civil war. Most likely - with the use of tactical nuclear weapons in it.
    1. 2 Level Advisor
      2 Level Advisor 8 December 2021 11: 45
      +1
      Quote: Terran Ghost
      The level of the gross domestic product of the Russian Federation surpassed the level of the gross domestic product of the RSFSR in 1990 in 2006.

      and is this an achievement? GDP in 1990 is mainly a product of the national economy, and GDP in 2007 is highly dependent on prices for export raw materials, which in 2007, to put it mildly, are STRONGLY higher than prices in 1990 ... for example, oil is $ 18 per barrel in 90m and 130-140 $ in 2007 ... how do you like it? purely on oil - producing the same amount - 7 times more income going to GDP ... so a stupid comparison in terms of GDP is not worth doing - it turns out VERY incorrectly .. Saudi Arabia's GDP is awesome .. and what does it consist of? and this is important .. if the GDP in terms of products is equal to the export of natural resources .. wow .. this is really already an achievement ...
      1. Terran ghost
        Terran ghost 8 December 2021 12: 14
        +4
        GDP 1990 is mainly the products of the national economy, and GDP in 2007 is highly dependent on the prices of export raw materials

        Do not compare warm to soft. The percentage of the "total contribution to GDP" of oil and gas production, in fact, in 2007 was not nearly as great as it seems.
        The dependence of the normal functioning of the economy on imports of the Russian economy in 2007 was much higher than that of the USSR economy in 1990. But the latter was also, alas and ha, significantly dependent on imports for that period. And the export of oil and gas was and remains one of the main ways of earning freely convertible currency for the purchase of this very import.
        PS: And yes - the level of dependence of the Soviet Union's economy on imports tended to grow steadily from somewhere in the late 1960s - early 1970s.
        1. 2 Level Advisor
          2 Level Advisor 8 December 2021 12: 40
          0
          well, easily refute me, because for me it is you who are warm and soft who are confusing .. just give the data on "GDP by production - without the export of natural resources" for 1990 and 2007 ... this is your statement - that the Russian Federation has reached the level of the RSFSR .. i.e. As I understand it, you are sure that if natural resources are now at the price level of the 90th year, the GDP will still be higher for the Russian Federation than for the RSFSR? however ... a bold statement .. i.e. the price of even oil (without taking the rest) is 7 times different - does it have any effect on GDP?
  33. Rostock
    Rostock 8 December 2021 11: 28
    -1
    How we started (the arrival of Lenin from Germany with which we were at war with the slogan - peace with the Germans at any cost and the subsequent shameful peace on the terms of the enemy) and ended it! The entire history of the Union is entirely one of traitors, saboteurs and spies, moreover, by decree of the very bodies of Soviet power.
    1. tatra
      tatra 8 December 2021 11: 48
      -2
      It is YOU, the enemies of Lenin on the territory of the USSR - mental traitors to their country and people, those who believed you, each other.
      You both in the Civil and the Great Patriotic War fled to grovel before the invaders of your homeland by the interventionists and the Germans, after the war you openly admitted your admiration for the enemies of the USSR in the West, having seized the republics of the USSR, you ran in a race to put them under the West. A huge number of you when the communists were in power pretended to be communists and their supporters for the sake of profit and a career, and during Perestroika they immediately betrayed the communists, and you, all the rest, betrayed these benefactors of yours, starting with Gorbachev and Yeltsin, threw them to the communists and their supporters.
      1. atalef
        atalef 8 December 2021 11: 58
        -4
        Quote: tatra
        It is YOU, the enemies of Lenin on the territory of the USSR - mental traitors to their country and people, those who believed you, each other.
        You both in the Civil and the Great Patriotic War fled to grovel before the invaders of your homeland by the interventionists and the Germans, after the war you openly admitted your admiration for the enemies of the USSR in the West, having seized the republics of the USSR, you ran in a race to put them under the West. A huge number of you when the communists were in power pretended to be communists and their supporters for the sake of profit and a career, and during Perestroika they immediately betrayed the communists, and you, all the rest, betrayed these benefactors of yours, starting with Gorbachev and Yeltsin, threw them to the communists and their supporters.

        Well, congratulations, maybe I don't believe in immortality, so this is what you communists created - the people (as you put it) enemies and traitors after 70 years, the majority of the people (whom you stuffed with fairy tales and dogmas) absolutely unconditionally and meekly gave the opportunity to those chosen by them the same people (as a rule, who occupied leading positions in your own Communist Party of the Soviet Union) to destroy in 3 days your unruly USSR.
        You raised them all (including the KGB, the army, the Ministry of Internal Affairs - who did not even lift a finger to protect you), or rather, all your ideology, lying to the ground, while taking even the slightest responsibility for everything that you yourself did the same you are not able to , talkers and spineless liars - that's what it is.
        They betrayed the communists - laughter, you were the first traitors who betrayed the people, the country, the fraternal countries.
        Therefore, you have taken a worthy place in the dustbin of history and not only in the USSR but also in all former republics and countries of the socialist camp.
        A wretched sight.
        1. tatra
          tatra 8 December 2021 12: 04
          0
          Here, again, a cowardly blame on the communists for what YOU, their enemies have done, and under the rule of the communists, and in your deceitful, hypocritical, slanderous Perestroika, in which you lied to the people in EVERYTHING, and for 30 years after you captured the republics of the USSR ...
          And with all this, you also seriously imagined that you deserve to own the country.
          1. atalef
            atalef 8 December 2021 12: 16
            -3
            Quote: tatra
            And with all this, you also seriously imagined that you deserve to own the country.

            Well, you have already distracted, no one brought more grief than the commies of Russia.
            For 70 years, twice destroyed the country to the ground.
            And until now, the fosterlings of the Communist Party of the Soviet Union are destroying who you do not look at, which of the oligarchs, that their top management of the country - all immigrants from the CPSU.
            Party of liars and traitors - hiding behind false zhogmas, you should at least honor your classic
            Karl Marx wrote about the prevalence of experiment over theory, and so your experiment failed in any country, therefore, your entire ideology is in a dustbin.
            1. tatra
              tatra 8 December 2021 12: 22
              -2
              Ha, so WHERE are you, enemies of the communists?
              You yourself are not in the history of the Soviet period, or your anti-Soviet.
              What is the meaning of your existence then?
              1. atalef
                atalef 8 December 2021 13: 10
                -2
                Quote: tatra
                Ha, so WHERE are you, enemies of the communists?
                You yourself are not in the history of the Soviet period, or your anti-Soviet.
                What is the meaning of your existence then?

                So if we don’t and we don’t have anything - then how did we ruin everything that you type created?
    2. ivan2022
      ivan2022 8 December 2021 18: 13
      0
      Quote: Rostok
      How we started (the arrival of Lenin from Germany with which we were at war with the slogan - peace with the Germans at any cost and the subsequent shameful peace on the terms of the enemy) and ended!

      As we started "the first of the two troubles of Russia", we are ending ...Lenin did not come from Germany, but from Switzerland. The return of interneed Russian subjects during World War I was quite commonplace. For example, in 1915, the famous sociologist Kovalevsky, a member of the State Council of the Russian Empire, returned through Germany and Sweden. In St. Petersburg he was given a solemn reception, which was attended by Pavel Nikolayevich Milyukov. And also in a sealed carriage. And now they will also shut down from Kaliningrad through the Baltic states, since you cannot leave .... and what, all the spies?

      And of course, with the money of the German General Staff, they created the Russian Federation, the Soviet Union ... Yeah ... "Russia's first trouble" - it is a trouble for all troubles ...
  34. ximkim
    ximkim 8 December 2021 11: 47
    +4
    The USSR was destined to fall apart anyway:
    1. I spent a lot of resources on promoting my ideas.
    2. Everything was wrong inside (main reason).
    3. The current elite is the groundwork for socialism.
    4. The elite are tired of hiding their well-being.
    5. Every year, the CPSU had to lie more and more.
    6. There was no unity (only calculations, and fragmentation leads to collapse)
    1. tatra
      tatra 8 December 2021 12: 06
      -2
      The enemies of the USSR and the Soviet people do not even understand the meaning of their anti-Soviet methodologies. Countries, as in your cowardly ravings, do not fall apart "by themselves", they are being deliberately destroyed by PEOPLE.
      1. ximkim
        ximkim 8 December 2021 12: 22
        +4
        Quote: tatra
        The enemies of the USSR and the Soviet people do not even understand the meaning of their anti-Soviet methodologies. Countries, as in your cowardly ravings, do not fall apart "by themselves", they are being deliberately destroyed by PEOPLE.

        This is how people ruined: born, brought up and educated in the USSR!
        1. The comment was deleted.
        2. tatra
          tatra 8 December 2021 12: 31
          0
          Ha, that is, the communists raised YOU, their fierce enemies?
          Did the Romanovs educate the "Februaryists" and the Bolsheviks?
          Are you bringing up those who are organizing coups d'état / Maidans against you on the territory of the captured USSR and want to arrange them?
    2. ivan2022
      ivan2022 8 December 2021 22: 33
      0
      Quote: ximkim
      The USSR was destined to fall apart

      This is true....
      One power from another power in any country differs only in laws. The legislation of the USSR was beneficial to a working and honest people. But to the descendants of serf slaves, this is "not okay not foldable."
      Society actually does not live according to laws, but according to its own customs. The laws of the USSR were deeply alien to him.
      "People of serfdom
      Real dogs sometimes.
      The harder the punishment
      So much dearer to them, gentlemen. / N. Nekrasov /
      While it was hard, everything worked, and how it became easier to live from about the 60s, it turned out according to the proverb: "put the pig at the table, she and her feet on the table." Plundered the country. And they created in the words of the political scientist and economist Delyagin; "An atypical state is a machine for plundering the wealth created earlier." This will stand, even if everything in it collapses altogether. Even if only ten remain from the people of one hundred million! After all, such are the customs of the blessed society, they stood for a thousand years!
  35. Thorvlobnor IV
    Thorvlobnor IV 8 December 2021 11: 56
    +7
    All of a sudden they wanted independence.
    The first, as you remember, was Ukraine. Then the Baltics, Moldova, Georgia, Armenia and Azerbaijan fell off. As a result, Russia, Belarus, Kazakhstan, Uzbekistan, Turkmenistan, Kyrgyzstan and Tajikistan were left to “think about” the Union.


    Wait, but why, excuse me, whistle? Declaration of State Sovereignty: Estonia - November 16, 1988, RSFSR - June 12, 1990, Ukraine - July 16, 1990
    And this "as you remember" - jarring, you know. Unlike you, we remember.
    1. tatra
      tatra 8 December 2021 12: 10
      -3
      All this proves that the enemies of the USSR and the Soviet people captured the USSR during their anti-communist Perestroika, justifying the crimes of external and internal enemies of the USSR and the Soviet people, and their vaunted "democracy" began with the fact that they spit on the will of the peoples in 9 republics of the USSR , who voted by an overwhelming majority for the preservation of the USSR, and in the rest of the republics of the USSR, they generally forbade their peoples to express their will at a referendum on the preservation of the USSR.
  36. 1536
    1536 8 December 2021 12: 29
    +2
    I don’t want to write anything about that time. But for some reason the same question is constantly revolving: Can this happen again today? When you do not find an answer, then a lot of questions arise:
    Can a shortage of goods be created?
    Could a food shortage be created?
    Can the notorious media provocateurs today organize some of the people so that they will voluntarily engage in self-destruction, as it was in the late 1980s - early 1990s? Etc.
    If every citizen of our country answers these questions with the word "no", then everything that happened in those years will already become the property of history. As it was with Yesenin: "There is no more return to the old ..."
    By the way, about the history. I think, if we say that the revolution has a beginning, but "the revolution has no end," then the events of 1991 became only the final part of the Great Russian Revolution of 1917. In 1991, the end was finally put on the issue of the transfer of property from one person to another. Which was legally secured.
    Nevertheless, why do we so stubbornly refuse to call our revolution the Great? Along with the French. After all, this is a milestone in the history of the development of all mankind, and, therefore, from this point, much began to change, received a direction of movement. And we deliberately emasculated the entire historiography of the Soviet era, and we sit and read F. Fukuyama, while still being moved by the fact that we have begun a "new" stage in history. Yes, it has not begun, but a long time ago it has been going and already tired of signaling to everyone what needs to be done.
  37. infantry76
    infantry76 8 December 2021 12: 55
    +2
    Comrades - gentlemen!
    What happened 30 years ago resembles a "thieves' meeting" (regional princelings): on the sly, without the main "godfather" (the president of the USSR). Sadly! They threw the whole people! IMHO! I have the honor! soldier
  38. ximkim
    ximkim 8 December 2021 12: 58
    +2
    Quote: tatra
    Ha, that is, the communists raised YOU, their fierce enemies?
    Did the Romanovs educate the "Februaryists" and the Bolsheviks?
    Are you bringing up those who are organizing coups d'état / Maidans against you on the territory of the captured USSR and want to arrange them?

    hi
    What do you write .. What do you attribute to me.?
    Are you out of your mind?
    The USSR was destined to fall apart anyway:
    1. I spent a lot of resources on promoting my ideas.
    2. Everything was wrong inside (main reason).
    3. The current elite is the groundwork for socialism.
    4. The elite are tired of hiding their well-being.
    5. Every year, the CPSU had to lie more and more.
    6. There was no unity (only calculations, and fragmentation leads to collapse.
    1. Arkadich
      Arkadich 8 December 2021 14: 02
      +2
      I fully support it. Since the 70s, the USSR has been increasingly turning into an ear with feet of clay. And the fact that some took advantage of the sickness of others must be taken for granted. And stop throwing mud at your history. Perestroika and glasnost have not taught you anything? Let's live for today, think about tomorrow and calmly remember yesterday.
    2. tatra
      tatra 8 December 2021 18: 35
      -3
      Again the cowardly ravings of the enemies of the USSR and the Soviet people about the fact that countries can fall apart by themselves, without the participation of those who are falling apart.
      Again their cowardly "and I have nothing to do with it." How to slander everything Soviet - so they are all together, but how to defend their anti-Soviet clique - so each is only for himself, and each has nothing to do with what they have done to their country and people,
  39. ximkim
    ximkim 8 December 2021 13: 02
    +2
    Quote: tatra
    Ha, that is, the communists raised YOU, their fierce enemies?
    Did the Romanovs educate the "Februaryists" and the Bolsheviks?
    Are you bringing up those who are organizing coups d'état / Maidans against you on the territory of the captured USSR and want to arrange them?

    The Soviet Union was destroyed by Soviet citizens, and this is not about the United States, etc.
    Always blame someone from outside (and at least aliens) everything.
    1. tatra
      tatra 8 December 2021 18: 36
      -4
      Ha, well, then the October Revolution was staged simply by Russian citizens.
      1. ximkim
        ximkim 8 December 2021 18: 53
        +1
        Quote: tatra
        Ha, well, then the October Revolution was staged simply by Russian citizens.

        Конечно.
        Not the Chinese with aliens))
        1. tatra
          tatra 8 December 2021 19: 05
          -3
          Ha, what then are you, enemies of the USSR and the Soviet people, all 30 years after your seizure of the USSR, rage against the Bolsheviks in relation to the October Revolution?
          Rage against "Russian citizens".
  40. Vadim237
    Vadim237 8 December 2021 13: 20
    -3
    At the time of the signing of this agreement in 1991, in fact, no USSR existed anymore - the ideology of the entire economy, all the attitude towards the authorities of the Central Committee of the CPSU, everything is below the plinth of the attitude of the peoples of the republics to each other. This agreement is just an official signature that the country no longer exists.
    1. ivan2022
      ivan2022 8 December 2021 13: 52
      +3
      Quote: Vadim237
      At the time of the signing of this treaty, 1991, in fact, no USSR existed anymore - the ideology of the whole economy is all the attitude towards the authorities of the Central Committee of the CPSU below the plinth of the attitude of the peoples of the republics to each other everything

      Strange ... and in March 1991, when there was a referendum, the relations of the peoples were still those .... You think that the war in Chechnya or in the Sov. republics are from what? From all of a sudden the bad relations of the peoples of the USSR themselves? Type of "expression of will"? And politicians are "pravdoruby" who only stood up for their peoples ... it is clear ..... Right now Kazakhstan is the world's main supplier of uranium to the United States, and Georgia is manganese to Britain ... in the USSR, and in the West, with pleasure! All for the sake of these very peoples ... what can you not sign ...

      In 1996, the State Duma of the Russian Federation even passed a resolution on the illegitimacy of the Belovezhskaya agreement and the presence of corpus delicti in the actions of the persons who prepared and signed it. And according to the legislation of the RSFSR and the legislation of the Russian Federation.
      But our blessed people did not give this course! He stood up for Borya, the liberator of the Russians from the oppression of the republics, and elected him President for the second time. Well, all these SSSRs ... go to the bathhouse.
      1. Vadim237
        Vadim237 8 December 2021 19: 33
        -2
        And how many took part in this referendum that all 290 million - the Baltic States had already left Ukraine de facto in the republics between the confrontations and the countries as a whole was in a pre-bankrupt state and there was no talk of any preservation of the USSR that was previously out of the question and it was physically impossible, just like the transition to the market with all the consequences - all this had to be done smoothly starting from the 60s and then the USSR would have survived with minimal losses, but in the 80s such a sharp transition was a stalemate and it became a stalemate.
        1. ivan2022
          ivan2022 9 December 2021 00: 12
          0
          Quote: Vadim237
          And how many participated in this referendum that all 290 million - the Baltic States had already left by this time

          After 30 years, are you challenging the legitimacy of the referendum?
          But before your statement, everyone recognized it. Its results were then officially recognized by the Law.

          Although we generally have the concept of "law" -extensible ..... For example, in 1991, the Upper Council easily approved the Belovezhskaya Treaty (there were only about 10 people voted there - on such an issue, this is a laughing matter!), Although this was legally required a Congress. After all, the USSR was also created in 1922 by the decision of the Congress ...
          In October 1993, the Congress of People was easily shot in Moscow. deputies. In 1996, the State Duma of the Russian Federation adopted a resolution according to which the Belovezhskaya agreement was declared not legitimate, but officials, including Yeltsin, were "persons whose actions are interpreted as criminal." And nicho, as it were! The people elected Boria as President for the second time.
          So something ... Everything is simple with us to disbelief, bang - and into the king! And here you start, panimash, "catching fleas" on the subject of the legality of the 1991 Referendum ...
  41. depressant
    depressant 8 December 2021 13: 56
    +3
    In general, my second comment is covered. Maybe it's for the best)))
    1. ximkim
      ximkim 8 December 2021 14: 06
      +2
      How did you get covered?
      1. depressant
        depressant 8 December 2021 14: 41
        +3
        Yes, I remembered that the kettle on the stove had been boiling for about 10 minutes and, having turned off the mobile, mind you, without saving the printed matter, I rushed headlong into the kitchen. And when I returned, I turned it on, but there was no text, just a white screen. All attempts to revive the printed matter did not help, and the cats scratched their hearts. Either because it’s a pity for the time spent, or because it’s possible, the trouble has passed nearby, hurt, but passed. I wove it too harshly, and now it feels better wassat )))
    2. Liam
      Liam 8 December 2021 14: 17
      -1
      Quote: depressant
      Maybe it's for the best

      Agree
      1. depressant
        depressant 8 December 2021 14: 42
        +3
        Victor, you are right! good drinks )))
  42. depressant
    depressant 8 December 2021 15: 01
    +5
    Here it is, my missing comment. Clever mobile phone found a way to save it))))

    In my first commentary, I outlined the stages of development of Western capitalism, as I understand it, and came to the conclusion that the consolidated wealthy of the West have entered a period of accumulation of unlimited power, which is more expensive than profit.
    As for my country, in the cries of "How long!" I was emotionally burned out, and when I burned out, I began to figure it out, but what is going on with us? The vague contours of what was happening began to emerge from the political and economic chaos, and a sad picture of the combination of the stages of development of capitalism in modern Russia was drawn.
    In an effort to catch up with the Western world, Russia has entered into two stages long gone by the West and thoroughly forgotten by it.

    1. The period of initial capital accumulation.
    If in the West this process stretched out for more than a century, or, perhaps, lasted longer, and at least somehow was squeezed by the framework of laws - no matter what - monarchical or bourgeois, as well as by the framework of at least ostentatious morality, then in Russia , having abolished Soviet ideology, abolished any moral, ethical and legal boundaries. As a result, the period of initial capital accumulation in our country took on an unprecedentedly accelerated, predatory, absolutely savage form in relation to its own population, which was deprived of everything, including the right to life due to the removal of the earth's interior and the elimination of the right to decent work. This is akin to the occupation of the country by an enemy who hates us especially. As if some medieval conqueror was resurrected and walked across the country with fire and sword. And this period is not over yet. For the robbers have not yet plundered enough to somehow come close to the rich on the Zappda in terms of loot.

    2. The liquidation of the industry of the USSR with socialist production relations had to be simultaneously accompanied by the creation of a new one, with a capitalist type of production relations, the New Industrialization and Modernization of what needed to be preserved had to be intensively carried out. After all, otherwise you will not catch up with the West! And I remind you that about 80 thousand Soviet industrial enterprises were liquidated!
    Excuse me, who was supposed to carry out the New Industrialization? People engaged in the accumulation of initial capital? Why would they do this if they can rob the subsoil and the population with impunity? This is outside the framework of their morality and, most importantly, life goals. In addition, they are fundamentally incapable of being creators and, moreover, patriots. They simply do not know how to create anything, this is not their profession. Therefore, to appeal to them, they say, build our industry, and even at your own expense, that is, squandering the loot, is the same as turning to a wall that does not understand you.
    So the New Industrialization within the Period of Initial Capital Accumulation has covered itself with a copper basin, don't wait. For these two periods - accumulation and industrialization - are not compatible in our country, since there is still something to plunder.
    But the industrialization of the capitalist type in our country has also got under way because the suddenly formed stratum of our small-town rich had to, I stress this - had to enter a period characterized by a very strange:

    3. The period of the initial accumulation of power.
    On the one hand, absolute power, and what it is, I described in my upper commentary, our rich need like air for complete confidence in the safety of the loot, while in the West the loot by the rich during the period of the initial accumulation of their capital was legitimized by the subsequent period spent them, the rich, powerful large-scale industrialization, and the population, as it were, forgave them for this sins of the times of the youth of capitalism. Our robbers, however, did not carry out new industrialization in Russia, do not carry out and will not carry out it. I repeat, they simply do not know how to do this, do not see the goal - they rob! As a result, they are illegitimate both from the point of view of the citizens of Russia and from the point of view of the wealthy stratum of the West, which has long acquired a respectable appearance.
    Ours are illegitimate, but they buy themselves power to suppress our discontent. And it doesn't matter what means the authorities use for this - clubs, handouts, corruption or intimidation, showing what they do to people in prisons. As long as the power bought by our rich will cope with its task, until then it will be bought within the framework of carnival democracy. But the trouble is that the Western group of the rich, the one that is already "respectable", sees the politicians of any country as their own managers who are obliged to do what they are told to do. And the pressure of the "respectable" is so reasoned that the actions of our political power are forced to run counter to the interests of those accumulating initial capital and at the same time trying to accumulate power.
    These are our internal contradictions, but that's not all I wanted to say)))
  43. iouris
    iouris 8 December 2021 16: 21
    0
    Why "betrayal" at once? Were they really condemned? Were they shot?
    We know that the process has started, but has it been stopped? I doubt. Turkey began to master the legacy of the Russian Empire and the USSR. So who is the "successor"?
    Or maybe everything is correct, everything is good, everything is just wonderful and "the country is on the rise"?
    1. Vadim237
      Vadim237 8 December 2021 19: 38
      0
      "Turkey has begun to master the legacy of the Russian Empire and the USSR" - How is this?
  44. Gado
    Gado 8 December 2021 16: 47
    +1
    If you yourself have remembered these events, then do not dare to impute to US the role of traitors. Those in power at that time themselves betrayed the US and handed it over to NATO and the EU, we had no choice from the word "absolutely". If we knew where we were going then, then we ourselves would have done something ... but it's too late already. Hope for your and our experience of the past years and for future generations. And we are all, unfortunately.
  45. wow
    wow 8 December 2021 17: 30
    +1
    Those who have not yet died to hang and burn, but those who are already buried - to dig out and burn with the aforementioned in the wind, so that there is no memory left ...!
  46. tatra
    tatra 8 December 2021 18: 43
    -2
    In general, summarizing what both its supporters and most opponents of the USSR wrote and said after the destruction of the USSR, they all recognize the destruction of the USSR as a crime against the country and the people.
    And the opponents of the USSR, all these 30 years, are AFRAID of comparing what its supporters did under the USSR with what they themselves did after the seizure of the republics of the USSR, because they recognize this as their crimes against their country and people.
    1. Vadim237
      Vadim237 8 December 2021 20: 32
      -3
      At least the problem of food addiction solved the problem of chronic shortage, and the problem of competitive products of the civil sector is being solved a little by little. buckets with bolts as well as the distribution of all this for free and unequal barter to all countries in need, as well as on tanks and missiles and other weapons, were put in the first place in the economy - the country will not live long and did not live in the 69s, the money ran out and hello.
  47. Glagol1
    Glagol1 8 December 2021 21: 14
    +1
    The USSR was destroyed by the communists from the Politburo, Suslov, Romanov, they did not want reforms. Striped ones added. And the GKChP drove the last nail in. And these, from December 1991, simply recorded the death of the patient. And Russia is following the same path. And striped side by side, and internal problems. Falsification of elections, denial of access to them in general, zeroing, anyone can now become a foreign agent or a traitor, taxes are simply choking, business is being killed ... Probably not long left. Russians do not love their country, but why love it? The death rate from covid is the highest in the world. Total corruption is everywhere. The authorities fenced themselves off from the people by security forces and luxury. Hypocrisy and arrogance, everywhere. Destroyed education and healthcare, science in the ass.
  48. Maga Winner
    Maga Winner 8 December 2021 21: 38
    0
    Everything was done correctly. Freedom is the main achievement, man does not live by bread alone.
  49. Victor Tsenin
    Victor Tsenin 9 December 2021 11: 23
    -1
    > But alas, these people are becoming less and less every year.

    I will only note that recent polls by the date of the counter-revolution showed 90% of those negatively related to collusion and collapse, a sample of almost 30000 people. Index.

    > The Soviet Union, with all its disadvantages

    It is also quite clear that there were no unsolvable disadvantages and problems, which is understandable to any thinking patriot.

    Thank you for the expanded article reminder of the truth.
  50. Radikal
    Radikal 9 December 2021 18: 07
    0
    Quote: Vadim237
    At least the problem of food addiction solved the problem of chronic shortage, and the problem of competitive products of the civil sector is being solved a little by little. buckets with bolts as well as the distribution of all this for free and unequal barter to all countries in need, as well as on tanks and missiles and other weapons, were put in the first place in the economy - the country will not live long and did not live in the 69s, the money ran out and hello.

    Ay-yay-yay, and how did you forget to say about galoshes .... lol