And Russia was lucky with the Japanese war

210

Sometimes life hits you in the face


First of all, you need to ask one simple question: how should you feel about defeats?

Just purely from practice - no army / navy can win endless victories. Usually. And now the defeat. Obvious.



How to be here and what to do about it?

Good question, because in the domestic militaryhistorical tradition has developed some kind of ridiculous tendency to wind emotional circles around the defeat, to look for the guilty, to be hysterical, to blame someone ...

Or to prove that all this was an absurd accident, that everything should have turned out completely differently. Well, quite differently. What if events would have unfolded “a little” differently, then we would certainly have won. But evil fate "stole the victory."

Or try to invent something, prove something ...

This is not to say that defeat should be taken for granted or rejoice at it (there are amateurs), but in general, excessive emotionality when presenting the history of the military is somehow slightly annoying, because you want to hear not patriotic propaganda, but a sensible exposition of military events.

So it was with the Japanese war that Russia was very lucky.

With the Finnish 1939-1940 - not very, but with the Japanese war - yes, lucky. Strange as it may sound. So to speak, God guarded Russia, gave her a chance.

After all, life is not exactly a computer game, where you go from victory to victory and, in the end, bring down the "boss". Life is a little more complicated.

Russia faced a military threat from not the strongest (let's be honest) adversary. Yes, the logistics were not in our favor, but Japan in 1905 was just yesterday (1868 - Meiji revolution) a purely feudal society.

In any case, despite all the successes of the modernization policy, Japan remained a poor, backward country. This is not a superpredator.

You can cheat yourself for a long time, but Japan was not a great power. Something like that.

And Russia was just there. It seems to be official.

But the one-on-one war for the Russian Empire ended in defeat. Unexpected for many, jokes about "macaques and some" come to mind at once. It turned out sadly, of course. And the fleet was lost. And Port Arthur.

And after that, and in parallel with this, the first Russian revolution flared up. Which served as one of the reasons for the conclusion of the peace. It somehow turned out awkwardly.

And here, as in life: if your face is heavily stuffed, there are several options. You can finally get to know the barbell and punching bag and completely revise your lifestyle. You can write a thousand angry posts on the Internet that everyone is scoundrels and corrupt officials, and an honest person (for example, me!) Cannot even leave the house for a beer, so as not to get it on his honest face. You can go into a long binge. You can shout: "People, I believed in you, and you disappointed me!" - leap ... There are many options.
But everything that doesn't kill us makes us stronger. In theory. Purely theoretically.

Signs of trouble


Nikolai Alexandrovich, angry with the samurai, decided to build powerful ocean ships. In revenge, so to speak. Well, the navy is a good thing, you can't argue here, revenge is even better, but there was a big European war on the nose. Great War. And these are not battles on the hills of Manchuria ... This is much more serious.

But it was on the hills of Manchuria that the Russian army could not win, so to speak. And that was a "bad sign." Very bad if you can read these same signs. But who else could read them ...

They say that Russia "could have won." Let's consider this "winning" option.

And here, you see, what a snag is revealed - the war went on for a long time, large forces were involved, and there were many battles (at sea and on land). That is, talking about the "evil theory of probability" (Korean random, as cybersportsmen say today) is somewhat strange.

The Russian army and fleet there were plenty of opportunities to express myself. But somehow it "did not appear." In the sense: "victorious superiority." It did not appear at all. And so the talk about the fact that here's a little more ... Well, it would be nice to listen to, but hard to believe. And so - yes, the samurai had few resources for the war, but they fought great.

Well, Russia did not succeed in winning this war. Something was missing.

But with all due respect, the Japanese army and navy in 1904 is very far from the level of Germany or France. The Japanese tried, but history gave them too little time. Having jumped out of feudalism, they had to fight already in a purely industrial war, where battleships and artillery rule.

But based on the Japanese experience, I didn't even want to think about the upcoming clash with Germany. There, in any case, everything was much more serious. For some reason, it is customary to consider wars as something separate. That is, they lived, lived, did not grieve ... and bang - war!

Yes, not a simple war - world war!

Why would it suddenly?

That is, the war with the Japanese did not seriously threaten Russia in any case. But with Germany, she threatened. In any case. And there was already a positive experience of the land war with the backward Japan.

I would say an invaluable experience. If you evaluate it correctly, of course. If you do not take offense and do not bother with "terrible revenge", but make the right conclusions.

Japanese experience of "reforms from above"


Actually, in Japan, feudalism was done away with immediately. With one blow. So harsh, samurai. The process of "rassamuraivaniya" took place as harshly and quickly as possible ... And no one cried over the "cut down cherry orchards". They chopped with a backhand.

And Japan immediately, without bothering, stepped into a bright tomorrow.

But in Russia, even after the defeat in the war of 1904–1905, no one was ready for such rapid social reforms. The nobility retained their privileges. The peasants remained half-personal. No matter how offensive it sounds, in Japan, 10-15 years after the Meiji revolution, much more was done to solve the land / peasant problem than in Russia from Nicholas to Nicholas. By 1917, the Japanese were quite poor. The Japanese peasants are very poor.

But the problems of the legal and property status of Russian peasants were no longer entirely relevant for them. While we, generation after generation, were philosophizing and drafting the ideal social order, the Japanese were "chopping down" the old social order with katanas. Everything, immediately and finally.

I never said that in the land of the Rising Sun after that a complete paradise set in, but without the extremely harsh measures of the Meiji revolution, victory in the Russo-Japanese War would have been theoretically impossible.

... And sent in 1871 to Western countries great embassy led by Minister Iwakura Tomomi. The mission consisted of 50 officials and 60 student trainees. To represent Japan in the West, a portrait of the emperor was required, and the tradition forbade depicting rulers; the ban had to be canceled by photographing the monarch in palace attire. When visiting St. Petersburg, Iwakura Tomomi acquired portraits of Peter I, whom he treated as his idol (wiki2.net).


Strange analogies arise, don't they?

Japan began to develop very late, but very rapidly. Lightning fast, I would say. Further - it is completely funny:

The adoption of the Constitution, which was the culmination of the Meiji Restoration, took place on February 11, 1889. In Japan, an independent court and suffrage appeared (diletant.media).

So what, someone might ask?

Well, they adopted a constitution, and what is it?

Yes, actually, nothing, only in Russia then there was still no constitution. And it was not planned. And it was not planned for a long time.

The first Russian constitution was adopted exactly after the sinking of the Russian fleet and the defeat of the Russian army in the Far East.

On the authentic ones by His Imperial Majesty's own hand it is written:
"SO BE IT".
In Tsarskoe Selo.
23 April 1906 of the year.

And caps in the air! And rejoice everyone! What happiness!

Yesterday it was still early, but today it’s already the same.

And yes, the drafting of the Japanese constitution did not begin in 1889.

The Constitution was drafted in a calm atmosphere - the commission met at the dacha of Ito Hirobumi on a secluded island, where, by the way, a German professor was also brought, who acted as a consultant. The work was carried out so painstakingly that the commission spent about five years on the creation of the first Japanese Constitution, which fits into several pages. In February 1888, its final version appeared under the title "The Constitution of the Great Japanese Empire" (diletant.media).

That is, just the Japanese could not imagine an empire without a constitution. Including the divine emperor, it is necessary - it means it is necessary. There were disagreements over who exactly should take it: the emperor or the constituent assembly.

And the first session of the Japanese parliament was held on November 29, 1890. In Russia, they decided "not to rush into this issue." Well, it was not clear to the Russian autocrats, well, why all these parliaments and constitutions are needed ...

The thunder of the guns of the Japanese battleships in the Yellow Sea and the gunfire of the first Russian revolution brought some clarity to these complex matters.

In our country, this very defeat is considered to be somehow accidental, wrong, erroneous. Say, we were supposed to drink tea in Nagasaki as a result of the war ... But somehow it didn’t burn out.


But…

"Still, there is justice in the world, and the one who is right will survive."

The victory of the Japanese, who were rapidly modernizing their country, over archaic Russia, which fundamentally did not want political reforms, looks quite logical, like the victory of Russia in the XNUMXth century over the obsolete, feudal Ottoman Empire.

Neither Orthodoxy, nor sovereignty, nor collegiality, nor nationality made any impression on the Japanese generals and admirals. Russia has lost. Historical fact.

Different solutions and different results


Compare.

The Japanese emperor approved the constitution himself, voluntarily, in peacetime. From the Russian - the consent literally had to gnaw out. After the defeat in the war from the same Japanese and the revolution. And all the same - Nicholas II was somehow "not completely sure."

Does Russia need a constitution?

Or is the absolute power of such a wonderful monarch as himself sufficient?

So, the victory of Russia in the Russo-Japanese War would be simply fatal for her in the light of the upcoming clash with industrial Germany. A quite obvious conclusion would have been drawn about the invincibility of the Russian army and navy. And the uselessness of any stupid liberal reforms. And ten years after 1905 no one would even scratch at all.

And then there would be the complete and final "guten Morgen".

After an offensive defeat from the "nasty Japanese", His Majesty the Russian Autocrat rushed to build the battle cruisers Izmail, as if in revenge, but the idea of ​​the need for a complete modernization of Russian society (immediate!) Did not occur to him even after the Portsmouth Peace Treaty.

And yes, a little remark, to the question of "the inevitability of Russia's victory" and "morale" in that distant war.

Due to the fact that Nogi could not quickly take Port Arthur and the growing losses, they wanted to remove him from command ... After the end of the war, Nogi reported his actions to the emperor personally. Reading a report on the siege of Port Arthur, he suddenly stopped short, cried and began to ask permission to commit ritual suicide, seppuku, to atone for his guilt (wiki).

And yes, he did it. But after the death of the emperor.

But just Mr. Kuropatkin, unlike his Japanese counterpart, did not want to commit suicide, which many see as a great moral victory for Russia. Say, not everything was so great with the samurai ...

About moral victories.

You can also compare the fate of the Japanese emperor in 1945, when, after a lost war and nuclear bombings, almost all Japanese officers remained loyal to him, and the fate of the last Russian emperor, who in victorious 1917 was arrested along with his family by his own officers, after which the latter went to serve who Kerensky some to the Kaiser, some to the allies, some to Trotsky, and who immediately to "Pan Hetman" with the speaking surname Skoropadsky ... Then some of these officers sincerely welcomed Hitler's invasion of the USSR ...

Moral victories are so ambiguous ...

So yes, Russia was generally lucky with the Japanese war.

It was a kind of inoculation before the "German plague", that is, a clash with a military-industrial society, similar in spirit to the German one, but unable, unlike Kaiser Willy's Germany, to completely defeat Russia in a one-on-one war due to modest possibilities and geographical position (in the current version of history, even the "fully mobilized" Russian army of the 1914 model had no chances in a one-on-one war with Germany, from the word at all).

But even this vaccination did not save the empire. In case of victory, everything would be much worse.

210 comments
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  1. +11
    7 December 2021 13: 09
    The victory of the Japanese, who were rapidly modernizing their country, over archaic Russia, which fundamentally did not want political reforms, looks quite logical, like the victory of Russia in the XNUMXth century over the obsolete, feudal Ottoman Empire.

    Japan by 1905 had become a country with almost 100% literacy, and the Russian Empire still put crosses instead of signatures.
    1. +13
      7 December 2021 13: 39
      Quote: Konnick
      Japan by 1905 had become a country with almost 100% literacy, and the Russian Empire still put crosses instead of signatures.

      Well, for objectivity, nevertheless, the percentage of literate people in Ingushetia, in 1914, was slightly higher than in 1861. But the century in the yard was already the 20th, not the 12th. and civilization developed at such a pace that it was not stupid for a hundred years to swing. And to modernize slowly ... We love this. It is exactly the same now.
    2. +2
      7 December 2021 15: 18
      Japanese literacy of those years is very different from European
    3. -5
      7 December 2021 21: 01
      Hard minus! Japan has never been and, thank God, never will be 100% literate.
      1. 0
        8 December 2021 11: 50
        I hinted at this, but the minus is also important, thanks
  2. -29
    7 December 2021 13: 10
    they stopped being afraid of God in the late 19th and early 20th centuries, they began to write with a small letter, he gave Russia a red fist on the nose to wake up, still the concussion has not passed
    1. +17
      7 December 2021 13: 29
      We prayed a little !!!
      During the Japanese war, everyone prayed. Where is the result? Why didn't God help?
      Or maybe God specially sent tests to his beloved country and the people to make them feel better?
      Explain who is the thread?
      1. +19
        7 December 2021 13: 53
        Hope for God, but do not make it yourself.
      2. +15
        7 December 2021 13: 57
        During the Japanese war, everyone prayed. Where is the result? Why didn't God help?

        “No religious education and upbringing is given in military schools. There are no temples at schools. Future officers to the Almighty, who looks equally at all peoples and all religions, do not pray either in sorrow or in joy. It's the same in the army. This is the GREAT WEAKNESS of the Japanese army. Without religion, without faith in trade, warriors can withstand heavy trials, with heavy losses and hardships, individuals can, but the masses cannot. In schools, instead of religion, the highest morality is taught: love for the motherland, the emperor, respect for the family. "
        (Japanese diaries of A.N. Kuropatkin)

        Then churches were built at the expense of the military department. For the first five years of ministerial activity, Kuropatkin built 51 military churches. They did not forget about the importance of "nurturing" during the hostilities. Here is what Kersanovsky writes about preparations for an offensive on the Shahe River:

        “Inspections were held, parting prayers were served. Kuropatkin's order on the troops on September 19 began with a significant start: "The time has come for us to force the Japanese to obey our will, for the forces of the Manchurian army have now become sufficient ..." "
        (Kersnovsky. "History of the Russian Army")

        Ours carried icons to the front, and the soulless Japanese only brought weapons, ammunition and equipment.

        True, the offensive on the Shahe River ended in a shameful failure. And in general, during the Russo-Japanese War, Russian troops did not win a single victory either on land or at sea. And the war itself was lost.

        Even the all-Russian prayer for the granting of victory to Russia and the punishment of Japan did not help. As the Japanese bitterly joked after the 1922 earthquake, the Russian curse is triggered 17 years later.

        But in the Great Patriotic War with "spiritual support", temples in the army and icons, everything was bad. But Berlin was taken somehow. And the Japanese were utterly defeated in a short time.

        https://iskatel.livejournal.com/853498.html
        1. +16
          7 December 2021 15: 07
          And this is INTO ?? !!! God did not help the God-bearing people and the anointed of God? And I thought, why was it after the 17th they destroyed and blew up and shot? Probably the people were offended. winked wassat
          1. 0
            7 December 2021 15: 15
            the people spat at God with the whole world and began to secularize themselves and "progress"
      3. -9
        7 December 2021 15: 13
        did not pray and did not believe in God without exception. The history of the Church is a fairly accurate science and it speaks of a monstrous fall in morals during the synodal period in the church itself. Suvorov won with God. Ushakov is generally our saint. Why do you think Stalin restored the Patriarchate? It would be worth remembering what he studied in his youth.
        1. +16
          7 December 2021 16: 05
          Probably, they won near Moscow both at Stalingrad and on the Kursk Bulge, but they took Berlin, thanks to prayers ... Yeah ... do not restore Stalin's Patriarchate, they did not win the war from the word at all.
          1. -9
            7 December 2021 16: 14
            I did not say this, but forgetting and ignoring some facts, pushing others out does not lead to the growth of either the personal or the Country
            1. +6
              7 December 2021 16: 20
              If you believed in God, you look and there would be no wars ... I would answer ... That the First World War, that the Second ...
              1. -7
                7 December 2021 17: 13
                my you plus
              2. +1
                9 December 2021 13: 17
                And the accursed Napoleon-Antichrist ... or still not?
        2. Alf
          +9
          7 December 2021 18: 42
          Quote: datura23
          Suvorov won with God. Ushakov is generally our saint. Why do you think Stalin restored the Patriarchate? It would be worth remembering what he studied in his youth.

          Yes, yes ... And Moscow was surrounded with an icon and the enemy ran away in December ... Why then, in August-September-October-November, they did not carry it around? And it would be best to put on the border and not to cross the Hans to the USSR ...
          1. -9
            7 December 2021 18: 45
            I dare to assure - Russia has not won a single war without prayer
            1. Alf
              +12
              7 December 2021 18: 49
              Quote: datura23
              I dare to assure - Russia has not won a single war without prayer

              Prayer is a good thing, but the T-34, SVT, IL-2 and BM-13 are somehow more needed in war.
            2. +4
              8 December 2021 13: 56
              I wonder when? A! Probably until the first half of the twentieth century. Especially in the period from the 17th to the 19th century. Then Russia won many battles and battles. Including with God's help ...
              Or not. Indeed, during this period, the church continued to play a huge role in the state EVERYWHERE. Only in the second half of the 19th century, large-scale transformations began in the Western and Eastern countries. And for a long time, European countries also fought and won a lot.
              Now this should mean that the Orthodox god of the Christian is the most "battle-worthy".
              Faith, only faith and nothing more. Prayer will not throw you a box of cartridges from heaven to the battlefield. Prayer will not make the quilt bulletproof, prayer will not protect against carpet bombing.
              Faith is everyone's personal business. And the war, this is the most complex state planning and organization in hundreds of areas and industries, there is no place for the personal.
            3. 0
              9 December 2021 13: 19
              And without footcloths too.
              Footcloths are our secret weapon, inaccessible to adversaries!
              1. 0
                12 December 2021 14: 06
                Especially if they are not washed for six months, but better all year round.
        3. 0
          8 December 2021 13: 46
          Why do you think Stalin restored the Patriarchate?

          And where does I.V. Stalin and the Local Council of 1918?
          1. -4
            8 December 2021 16: 11
            he returned the Church to the consciousness of Soviet citizens by blessing the Church with his meeting with the Patriarch. Of course, the synodal period ended in 18, you are right
      4. +1
        7 December 2021 15: 19
        Quote: mmaxx
        We prayed a little !!!
        During the Japanese war, everyone prayed. Where is the result? Why didn't God help?


        Because it was necessary to modernize religious ideas, if there was no strength to abandon them. Strictly speaking, they have never been abandoned, even in the most radical anti-religious times.
        Roughly speaking, a new performance was needed, at least. It is interesting to imagine a version of the then Russian history with a reformed view of God as an extremely radical technocrat, skeptic and rationalist, believers in whom would consider technological and social development not an enemy but an ally and one of the most worthy pursuits in life. As a matter of fact, then physicists had already begun to approach the theory of relativity and the anthropic principle, and the first modern technical studies of the atomic nature of matter began.
      5. +10
        7 December 2021 18: 29
        Quote: mmaxx
        Explain who is the thread?

        God is on the side of large, trained, technically equipped and motivated battalions. Look at Israel - God's chosen people, but all the same, they do not sit idly by, but develop military science.
    2. +5
      8 December 2021 08: 07
      If God was forgotten at the end of the 19th century, then why did they lose the Crimean War?
      And Napoleon was not defeated in Europe in 1806-1807?
  3. -18
    7 December 2021 13: 27
    And after that, and in parallel with this, the first Russian revolution flared up. Which served as one of the reasons for the conclusion of the peace. It somehow turned out awkwardly.

    The Russo-Japanese War of 1904 and the First "Russian Revolution" of 1905 were planned in the same "General Staff", and they received orders from there, according to the situation "at the fronts." And in 1905 the war did not end, it was temporarily postponed for 9 years, and then resumed in 1914, which turned into the "February revolution."
    1. +13
      7 December 2021 13: 49
      Who planned it? Very interesting
      1. -4
        7 December 2021 18: 17
        Quote: PaulBoimer
        Who planned

        Jacob Schiff with accomplices.
        1. 0
          9 December 2021 09: 23
          That is, Jacob and his accomplices ran the business in China, forbade Nikolai to answer the notes of the Japanese, and in the end were represented at every headquarters?
      2. 0
        8 December 2021 22: 00
        Quote: PaulBoimer
        Who planned it? Very interesting

        Isn't it clear? The one who drank all the water from the tap.
    2. +12
      7 December 2021 15: 39
      Goofs and inept people always have someone to blame.
      1. -3
        8 December 2021 19: 50
        Quote: mmaxx
        Goofs and inept people always have someone to blame.

        Actually, in this case, it is not "to blame" the American bank financed the "revolution" 500,000 dollars
        1. +3
          9 December 2021 09: 25
          Which of the 3 is specific? Evenly or was there a loan?) Are there checks, contracts?))))
          1. 0
            9 December 2021 11: 47
            how many maydanutyh then ..
  4. +4
    7 December 2021 13: 32
    With the Finnish 1939-1940 - not very, but with the Japanese war - yes, lucky. Strange as it may sound. So to speak, God guarded Russia, gave her a chance.

    The Finnish one was not lucky only in terms of timing, two years earlier. We made conclusions, didn't manage to implement them!
    Very lucky with the Spanish gr. war. Let not tactical, but military-technical conclusions were also made.
    1. +4
      7 December 2021 14: 17
      The Finnish one was not lucky only in terms of timing, two years earlier. We made conclusions, didn't manage to implement them!

      The conclusions from the Finnish were made not only by us.
      Hitler would not have climbed into the USSR, having several times fewer tanks, aircraft, if he were not sure that the Russians are ill prepared for war
      1. +7
        7 December 2021 14: 43
        Quote: SergKam
        Hitler would not have climbed into the USSR, having several times fewer tanks, aircraft, if he were not sure that the Russians are ill prepared for war
        Would have climbed in any case, not in order to bring him to power, so that the USSR would be left alone.
        Well, and: "At Hitler's headquarters, everyone is bad!"
        1. -11
          7 December 2021 14: 54
          not for that he was brought to power, that would leave the USSR alone.

          I say - megalomania.
          The whole world revolves around Russia. They all envy our God-chosenness.
          Just one question:
          Why the heck did the Americans build factories for us? Stalingrad, Kharkov, Chelyabinsk.
          Without the striped ones, we would not even have our symbol of victory - the T-34.
          1. +2
            7 December 2021 16: 15
            Quote: SergKam
            I say - megalomania.

            Some have megalomania, and some lack logical thinking.
            "Hitler would not have climbed" and "without the striped ones, we would not even have our symbol of victory - the T-34." not logically connected in any way, if you understand what I mean.
            1. 0
              8 December 2021 01: 02
              "Without the striped ones, we would not even have our symbol of victory - the T-34." not logically connected in any way

              Does it hurt you so much that the weapon of victory has American roots? What is the T-34, what is the La-5, what is the Tu-2?
              We have an aircraft engine for the most part - licensed copies (and their modernization) of American and French ones.
              1. +1
                8 December 2021 03: 08
                Quote: SergKam
                Does it hurt you so much that the weapon of victory has American roots? What is the T-34, what is the La-5, what is the Tu-2?
                I am depressed by your inability to think logically.
                1. -1
                  8 December 2021 03: 26
                  I am depressed by your inability to think logically.

                  And you give me facts, facts.
                  Why do you immediately become personal? Or nothing to say? Only conspiracy theories and megalomania?

                  I cited facts: that America built factories in the USSR, the Stalingrad Tractor Plant, the Nizhny Novgorod, Magnitogorsk, and even the Dnieper Hydroelectric Power Station.
                  And England was the first to conclude a trade agreement with the USSR in 1920, breaking the trade blockade of the Soviet republic.

                  Have something to argue?
                  1. -1
                    8 December 2021 03: 30
                    Quote: SergKam
                    And you give me facts, facts.
                    Why do you immediately become personal?
                    Your weak ability to think logically is a fact.

                    Quote: SergKam
                    Hitler would not have climbed into the USSR, having several times fewer tanks, aircraft, if he were not sure that the Russians are ill prepared for war
                    How does this relate to this ?:

                    Quote: SergKam
                    I cited facts: that America built factories in the USSR, the Stalingrad Tractor Plant, the Nizhny Novgorod, Magnitogorsk, and even the Dnieper Hydroelectric Power Station.
                    And England was the first to conclude a trade agreement with the USSR in 1920, breaking the trade blockade of the Soviet republic.


                    Answer: no way. That's all about your ability to think coherently.
                    1. -1
                      8 December 2021 04: 09
                      Your weak ability to think logically

                      Obviously, in the absence of facts, you switched to demagoguery. It happens.
                      Took quotes from my 2 different posts and trying to match them? It's amazing why quotations from different messages are not connected, where in one I am talking about the consequences of the Finnish war, in the other - about the help of the British and Americans to the young USSR?
                      1. 0
                        8 December 2021 04: 21
                        Quote: SergKam
                        It's amazing why quotations from different messages are not connected, where in one I am talking about the consequences of the Finnish war, in the other - about the help of the British and Americans to the young USSR?


                        Do you imagine that there is a logical connection there too? Here are your two comments, not the slightest connection.

                        Time
                        Quote: SergKam
                        Hitler would not have climbed into the USSR, having several times fewer tanks, aircraft, if he were not sure that the Russians are ill prepared for war

                        Two
                        Quote: SergKam
                        Why the heck did the Americans build factories for us? Stalingrad, Kharkov, Chelyabinsk.
                        Without the striped ones, we would not even have our symbol of victory - the T-34.

                        Still something about demagoguery broadcast.
                      2. -2
                        8 December 2021 06: 05
                        Do you imagine that there is a logical connection there too?

                        Am I imagining ??
                        You think that in my different messages on different topics, there must be a connection.
                        When you did not find this connection (in different messages), you immediately switched to insults and demagoguery.
                        Therefore, either provide facts that refute my words, or we close this conversation.
                    2. 0
                      12 December 2021 14: 11
                      Surprisingly enough, factories in the USSR were built by Soviet citizens ... Yes, there was help from foreign specialists from the United States and other countries, but Soviet people built.
              2. Alf
                0
                9 December 2021 19: 14
                Quote: SergKam
                what is La-5, what is Tu-2?
                We have an aircraft engine for the most part - licensed copies (and their modernization) of American and French ones.

                Here is the M-82 completely Soviet, from scratch.
                Quote: SergKam
                We have an aircraft engine in its mass - licensed copies

                And ask WHOSE is the roots of the famous DB-600. And the "American" V-1650?
                Quote: SergKam
                T-34,

                And in the T-34 American only a guitar.
                1. 0
                  10 December 2021 01: 02
                  Here is the M-82 completely Soviet, from scratch.

                  From scratch????
                  And nothing that the M-82 (1939) was made on the model of the R-2600 (1935)? And the M-82 is a development of the M-81 engine, which is a two-row modernization of the M-62 / M-25, which in turn is a licensed copy of the R-1820? [center]
              3. 0
                12 December 2021 14: 09
                The Japanese, by the way, also have American, English, French, German roots, and without any licenses, weapons and equipment of the Second World War.
          2. mz
            +3
            7 December 2021 18: 19
            Quote: SergKam
            Why the heck did the Americans build factories for us?


            The factories were built (and designed) for us by personally financially interested Americans (and American companies). The US state has absolutely nothing to do with it.
            1. -2
              8 December 2021 00: 46
              The US state has absolutely nothing to do with it.

              And American companies do not constitute a state?
              And the creation of the same Stalingrad Tractor Plant in the United States went unnoticed? (It was originally collected in the USA, then disassembled and transported to the USSR)
              I’m silent that America was one of the first to lift the embargo on the USSR (in 1920), without lifting the embargo, there would be no industrialization
              1. Alf
                +1
                9 December 2021 19: 21
                Quote: SergKam
                I’m silent that America was one of the first to lift the embargo on the USSR (in 1920), without lifting the embargo, there would be no industrialization

                And which overseas country in the winter of 39 imposed an embargo on trade with the USSR? To which Molotov said, Our relations with the United States did not improve or worsen.
                Quote: SergKam
                And American companies do not constitute a state?

                No, they don't. Remember at what time and to whom American corporations sold fuel and lubricants, which were driven by German tanks, killing equal American solders. And how these solders were surprised to find copies of Fords in Europe ...
                There was not a single large corporation in the United States that did not cooperate with Dritten Reich during WW2.
          3. +2
            8 December 2021 16: 36
            Quote: SergKam
            Why the heck did the Americans build factories for us? Stalingrad, Kharkov, Chelyabinsk.
            Without the striped ones, we would not even have our symbol of victory - the T-34.

            How to say it ..... so that without a mat ..... uhh ...- for BABLO!!!!
            More precisely, for BABLE!!!!
            With any method of converting to current dollars - the USSR gave the United States about trillion (!!!!!!!) current dollars ...
            And also their engineer ruled our entire industry ... Even the deputy chief of the Red Dragon was an American - that is, the United States knew up to a gram - how much gold we mine ...

            I'm 80 percent sure that if we now offer the US tycoons trillion - everyone will suddenly forget about the sanctions ...
            And if Biden withers something, then he will immediately choke on a crust of bread, or he will hit his temple with a snuffbox, or he will go to the bathroom with a scarf ...
            1. The comment was deleted.
              1. +2
                9 December 2021 06: 38
                You are forgetting the purchasing power of the dollar in the 1930s and ignoring the Great Depression.
                For example, I came across an article about "5 dollar murders" in those years - when they robbed and killed a lot for the sake of scanty sums
                In addition, you forget that the money was then received not by the abstract Ministry of Finance, but by specific people and specific US corporations ...
              2. +1
                9 December 2021 07: 13
                And one more touch - 6 ton Vickers were bought at 4 pounds per piece.
                This is the price level of that time
            2. Alf
              0
              9 December 2021 19: 23
              Quote: your1970
              And if Biden withers something, then he will immediately choke on a crust of bread, or he will hit his temple with a snuffbox, or he will go to the bathroom with a scarf ...

              Yes, five minutes after such a statement, representatives of US corporations will kick the door in the White House Oral Office.
      2. Alf
        +5
        7 December 2021 18: 48
        Quote: SergKam
        The conclusions from the Finnish were made not only by us.

        The conclusions for the winter of 41 were especially good, when the engines did not start, and the soldiers wore greatcoats with cockroach fur.
        1. +2
          7 December 2021 19: 19
          Documents for preparing vehicles for winter in the Wehrmacht appeared in September 1942.
          1. Alf
            0
            7 December 2021 19: 22
            Quote: hohol95
            Documents for preparing vehicles for winter in the Wehrmacht appeared in September 1942.

            That's it. Chuhnuli with the ordnung and the brilliant general staff ...
            1. +2
              7 December 2021 19: 35
              "We blame everything on Adya ... it's his fault!"
              But not the officers responsible for preparing the rear to support the troops leading combat operations.
              "Rafik ugh you, Heinrich or Hugo are not to blame ..."
              1. Alf
                +2
                7 December 2021 19: 48
                Quote: hohol95
                "We blame everything on Adya ... it's his fault!"
                But not the officers responsible for preparing the rear to support the troops leading combat operations.
                "Rafik ugh you, Heinrich or Hugo are not to blame ..."

                So the Fuhrer clearly said, win in three months. And the Germans' unquestioning obedience and fulfillment of orders from their superiors is driven in at the gene level. lol
          2. 0
            7 December 2021 19: 24
            By the way, just today I read on Zen an article by Pashalok on this matter. In short, the mess among the Germans was simply amazing in its carelessness :)))
            1. +2
              7 December 2021 19: 28
              Yesterday he posted this article for the readers' judgment.
              In terms of vehicles for the army, the Germans "fell into a gloomy Teutonic genius."
            2. Alf
              +2
              7 December 2021 19: 50
              Quote: Senior Sailor
              In short, the Germans' mess was simply amazing in its carelessness :)))

              You can kick the rezun a lot, with pleasure and for the cause, but it is he who shows the full depth of the German mess. I especially liked the provision on FOUR German infantry .. fool
        2. -3
          7 December 2021 23: 33
          The conclusions for the winter of 41 were especially good,

          Good or bad conclusions are the second question.
          Ours also forgot how thousands died during the storming of the Mannerheim Line, and dismantled Stalin's line.
          Primarily, if the losses in the Finnish 5: 1 were not in our favor, the Barbarossa plan would not have happened.
          1. 0
            9 December 2021 12: 21
            Everyone somehow forgets that the analysts and intelligence of the USSR "made a mistake" in the timing of the attack for a whole year (without calculating the identity of Hitler's supporters of 42 years from real planning) and the cover plans were calculated to be ready by 1942. to keep them and the mantra "do not respond to provocations"
      3. +1
        9 December 2021 12: 12
        Quote: SergKam
        I am sure that the Russians are ill prepared for war

        would have climbed in any case - a huge army burned financial and material resources at an enormous speed, demobilization is impossible due to the lack of jobs - only the seizure of foreign resources allowed the Nazis, who had already done a lot of things, to stay in power
  5. -6
    7 December 2021 13: 37
    Actually, in Japan, feudalism was done away with immediately. With one blow. So harsh, in a samurai way. The process of "misappropriation" took place as harshly and quickly as possible ...


    Yes, but because the puppeteers were preparing Japan for a war with Russia. For this, they consistently carried out all the reforms and rearmed the army.
    Or do you think the Japanese did it all themselves, huh? )))
    1. 0
      7 December 2021 13: 44
      And what did the puppeteers get as a result of this war with Russia?
      1. +7
        7 December 2021 14: 08
        Quote: Kitty Moore
        Just purely from practice - no army / navy can win endless victories. Usually. And now the defeat. Obvious.
        Not enough. The foundations for the destruction of the empire have been laid, ranging from:
        1. Russia did not receive a non-freezing port in the Far East and stopped its penetration into China, as well as slowed down the development of China, which later fell at the mercy of Japan.
        2. In Europe, the authority of Russia has fallen below the plinth (even among the children of "Conduit and Shvambrania")
        3. The revolutionary situation continued (The First Russian Revolution).
        Few? They approached the PMA with practically no fleet.
        1. -4
          7 December 2021 14: 32
          Not enough. Foundations laid for the destruction of the empire

          So, on the contrary, the destruction of the decrepit empire created a superpower - the USSR.
          If the tsar had not been overthrown, Russia would have continued to rot quietly, without any industrial revolution.
          It turns out that your mythical General Staff tried to develop Russia?
          1. Alf
            +3
            7 December 2021 18: 54
            Quote: SergKam
            the destruction of the decrepit empire, created a superpower - the USSR.

            True, only the puppeteers were counting not on the Stalinist USSR, but on the Bukharin-Rykov one, and these are somewhat different things.
        2. -1
          7 December 2021 14: 57
          and also slowed down the development of China, which later fell to the mercy of Japan.


          4 years earlier, Russia pressed this very China together with the same Japanese, Americans, British, Germans and others. "Development of China". Funny.

          They approached the PMA with practically no fleet.


          Who is guilty? By the way, the fleet still needed a completely new one. The battleships are already outdated.
          1. -1
            7 December 2021 16: 20
            The battleships are already outdated.
            and not only battleships. The same "Glory" from the Borodino series is understandable. But our "dreadnoughts" with 305 mm artillery against 381 mm British or Germans .. somehow not very intelligible to be honest.
            1. +4
              7 December 2021 17: 33
              Quote: Region-25.rus
              But our "dreadnoughts" with 305 mm artillery against 381 mm British or Germans

              sho again?
              Battleships of the Sevastopol class were laid down simultaneously with the British Colusus (GK-12), the American Florida (GK-12, with 45 caliber), the German Ostfriesland (GK-12) and the Japanese Kavati (a mishmash of 45 and 50 gauge 12 ") and earlier than German also 12 "Kaiser" and "Koenig" as well as Italian "Conti Lee Cavour" and "Andrea Doria" and French "Courbet".
              So there is no need to compare with the giants, we actually played in a completely different league!
              By the way, the Germans with 381mm were also very late.
              1. Alf
                +1
                7 December 2021 18: 55
                Quote: Senior Sailor
                Sevastopol-class battleships laid down simultaneously

                Have they been launched?
                1. 0
                  7 December 2021 19: 05
                  Quote: Alf
                  Have they been launched?

                  You mean when you came in, right? (because the descent is only the middle of construction)
                  If so, then at about the same time as the aforementioned francs and German "König". Somewhat earlier than the Italians.
                  So what?
                  1. Alf
                    0
                    7 December 2021 19: 09
                    Quote: Senior Sailor
                    You mean when you came in, right? (because the descent is only the middle of construction)

                    You are right, I didn’t put it exactly.
                    Sevastopoli took 5 years to build. Competitors are not faster?
                    1. 0
                      7 December 2021 19: 16
                      Quote: Alf
                      Competitors are not faster?

                      Almost all. (There are almost the same number of Italians) But do not forget, after all, Russia was strongly inferior to all of the above in industry, and besides, construction began after a long break.
                      So, for five years the result, of course, is not outstanding, but not a failure either.
                      1. Alf
                        0
                        7 December 2021 19: 20
                        Quote: Senior Sailor
                        But do not forget, after all, Russia was strongly inferior to all of the above in industry, and besides, construction began after a long hiatus.

                        Am I arguing? I just remembered the fact.
        3. +1
          8 December 2021 14: 39
          1. In the presence of the Transsib, ports are not required at all to enter China.
          2. And before that, well, so respected ...
          3. The revolutionary situation was by no means created by the war; the war allowed it to manifest itself.
          The fact that a large part of the budget was spent on irons that had stood in the bases instead of reconstructing a wash for the army made a very solid contribution to the defeat.
          1. Alf
            0
            8 December 2021 19: 02
            Quote: dim999
            In the presence of the Transsib, ports are not required at all to enter China.

            Moreover, a single-track ..
            Quote: dim999
            The fact that a large part of the budget was spent on irons that had stood in the bases instead of reconstructing a wash for the army made a very solid contribution to the defeat.

            And tell me, please, how did the Russian army lag behind the Japanese technically? Mosinka was inferior to Arisaka? Or were there fewer machine guns? Or maybe the Yap's three-inches were of a more perfect design?
      2. +6
        7 December 2021 16: 18
        And what did the puppeteers get as a result of this war with Russia?
        apparently interest payments on loans provided to Japan. Or do you think that Japan built its fleet (and it was built mainly by the British) for cash? ))) Nets-s-s-s. All on credit. Beneath the fruits of future victory.
        1. -8
          7 December 2021 16: 32
          I thought Britain generally built a fleet for her at its own expense, solely to screw up Russia.
          1. +2
            7 December 2021 16: 52
            I thought Britain generally built a fleet for her at its own expense, solely to screw up Russia.
            seriously???? belay
      3. 0
        7 December 2021 16: 39
        They got a crisis of power in Russia under a weak tsar, what this led to everyone knows
        1. Alf
          -1
          7 December 2021 18: 59
          Quote: faiver
          They got a crisis of power in Russia under a weak tsar, what this led to everyone knows

          "Britain has gained more than others." “All of her main opponents were weakened,” he continued. - When Nicholas II abdicated, British Prime Minister Lloyd George spoke in parliament. They brought him a note, and he exclaimed that the goal of the war had been achieved: the Russian tsar had renounced. Russia by this time was strengthening in the East and threatening the positions of Great Britain and the United States. Therefore, they did everything to ensure that Russia was defeated, first in the Russo-Japanese War, and then it was necessary to weaken Russia in the internal European war. "
    2. 0
      7 December 2021 14: 04
      Quote: lucul
      Or do you think the Japanese did it all themselves, huh?

      And I wrote about that. Everything in the "General Staff" was developed, and it all began after the unsuccessful Russian-Turkish war of 1864 - 1865 (the West did not get what it wanted). And the Meiji revolution (restoration) began in 1868. This was not an accident.
      1. +2
        7 December 2021 14: 18
        Quote: tihonmarine
        it all started after the unsuccessful Russian-Turkish war of 1864 - 1865 (the west got not what it wanted)

        All the same wars 54-55. And so ... There was no stupid west in 1855. The likelihood that France would cling to England, Prussia to France, and England, well, let it be to Italy, was an order of magnitude higher than the war with Russia. And yet, yes. The Franco-Prussian war was, but the Anglo or Franco-Russian as it was not noted. United West is already the second half of the 20th. And even then ... As for the unity, and now it is not so simple. And the main financier of the Russian-Japanese is the USA. Who, in general, on RI was deeply indifferent. If the national and religious policies of the empire were not only sane, but at least a little like them ... It is not a fact that American loans to Japan would be enough for more than buying a hundred boots. So ... What we fought for, we got it. Yes
        1. +2
          7 December 2021 14: 42
          Quote: Lannan Shi
          The Franco-Prussian war was, but the Anglo or Franco-Russian as it was not noted.

          There was a Russian-Turkish one, but it was in it that they made a second attempt, allegedly helping the Turks, to start a war with Russia, which was done on March 15, 1854, Great Britain and France declared war on Russia, Sardinia joined them, but the cunning Germans (Austria m Prussia) abstained. So this was a war worse than "some kind" Franco-Prussian. Here stood the dominion of Britain and France over a huge territory, boiled down to the following (and this cannot be compared with the rattle of France and Prussia):

          Åland Islands and Finland are returned to Sweden; The Baltic region goes to Prussia; the Kingdom of Poland must be restored as a barrier between Russia and Germany (not Prussia, but Germany); Moldavia and Wallachia and the entire mouth of the Danube departs to Austria, and Lombardy and Venice from Austria to the Kingdom of Sardinia; Crimea and the Caucasus are taken away from Russia and withdrawn to Turkey, and part of the Caucasus ("Circassia") forms a separate state, which is in vassal relations with Turkey.
          Here we have already discussed the division of the world, the prerequisites World War II
          The first attempt of "some kind of Reich" Napoleon and his comrades in Europe was in 1812.
          After the failure in the Russo-Turkish War, the Western "General Staff began to destroy Russia."
          1. -4
            7 December 2021 14: 53
            Can you link to the source? I often see this fake document.
            But neither the author nor the date of creation of the document is known.
            1. +2
              7 December 2021 15: 08
              Quote: Kitty Moore
              I often see this fake document.

              Yes, this is an article, but it can be found in books on history, and at one time it was held at the institutes.
              And you will get a link to the article:
              https://web.archive.org/web/20080229011110/http://ru.wikipedia.org/wiki/Крымская_война
              1. -5
                7 December 2021 15: 24
                And you do not think that this act of dismemberment of Russia is an ordinary fake remake, created in order to mitigate the effect of defeat in the Crimean War.
                Say: “Look, what did the bastards think of, and what did they get in the end? The same thing. "

                In general, a kind of "Testament of Peter" on the minimum salary.
                1. +1
                  7 December 2021 16: 13
                  Quote: Kitty Moore
                  And you do not think that this act of dismemberment of Russia is an ordinary fake remake, created in order to mitigate the effect of defeat in the Crimean War.

                  Yes, what a fake there. In Soviet times, if anything was written about history, then everything "was bad under the tsarist regime." So wherever there is something "not everything was bad in the empire," then this can be believed, here the communists did not lie.
                  I remember from school the words "The rottenness of the tsarist government led to defeat in the Japanese war, which led to the revolution of 1905. The rottenness of the tsarist regime led to WWI, which led to the February revolution and the overthrow of the tsarist regime."
                  So the communists did not like the kings.
            2. +1
              7 December 2021 15: 13
              Quote: Kitty Moore
              But neither the author nor the date of creation of the document is known.

              By the way, a good encyclopedia for children, or maybe articles:
              https://www.rosimperija.info
          2. +4
            7 December 2021 14: 58
            Quote: tihonmarine
            it all started after the unsuccessful Russian-Turkish war of 1864-1865

            Quote: tihonmarine
            There was a Russian-Turkish one, but it was in it that they made a second attempt, supposedly helping the Turks, to start a war with Russia, which was done on March 15, 1854, Great Britain and France declared war on Russia.

            I'm confused. Was the Crimean War after the Crimean War?
            Quote: tihonmarine
            After the failure in the Russo-Turkish War, the Western "General Staff began to destroy Russia."

            What the hell is the Western General Staff? France wanted to break Germany. Germany to wrest colonies from England. Well, finish off France, in order to avoid turning the kettle into a locomotive. England to slow down Germany, for which she was ready to cooperate with France. And in the intervals, between cooperation, to knock France in the teeth, so that those teeth do not cut off too much from Africa. What a nafig the Western General Staff when the three main players loved each other. Sincerely. With the love that a cat loves a cutlet.
            1. 0
              7 December 2021 15: 22
              Quote: Lannan Shi
              I'm confused. Was the Crimean War after the Crimean War?

              It was I who confused you by poking the wrong "steppe" Klava - read 1854-1855, and in 1864 the Prussians tore the Franks' backside.
              The Western "General Staff" was, is and will be, read simply - "The General Staff of Her Royal Majesty." He thinks, and the rest follow his decisions. Or maybe you have a different opinion? Maybe the Sumerians themselves come up with a war with Russia against Ukraine? Or has Europe itself invented to smash Libya to pieces? And a lot of what has happened in the last 150 years.
              1. +2
                7 December 2021 15: 37
                Quote: tihonmarine
                and in 1864 the Prussians had already torn the Franks' backside.

                Not a :))) This year there was peace. Two years later, Prussia clashed with Austria, and with France only after six!
                1. +1
                  7 December 2021 16: 37
                  Quote: Senior Sailor
                  Two years later, Prussia clashed with Austria, and with France only after six!

                  Yes, here you already get confused in these European "mouse wars" among themselves, they could not live a day to clean each other's mugs. But when to climb on Russia, they all were going to the caodla, only then they yelled - "Do not hit hard!"
              2. +5
                7 December 2021 17: 19
                Quote: tihonmarine
                read more simply - "The General Staff of Her Royal Majesty."

                Aaaa .... Well, yes. Well, yes. The Englishwoman shits. Everything is as simple as a perpendicular. Father Kolya and Mother Witte bring the light of enlightenment to wild Chinese Koreans, and the General Staff has convulsions and incontinence from that.
                Quote: tihonmarine
                He thinks, and the rest follow his decisions.

                Again, yes. Every Japanese, from birth, was imbued with the idea - to die for the glory of the Queen of England. Yes
                Quote: tihonmarine
                Or maybe you have a different opinion?

                Maybe you shouldn't have chopped off Kwantong? Which Russia is like the fifth wheel of the cart? To climb into Korea, hinting to the Japanese that they are wild macaques? Trying to squeeze out Manchuria? All this, too, was arranged by the General Staff, and not at all by a certain stabbing, with a drive of novels?
                1. -3
                  7 December 2021 17: 37
                  Quote: Lannan Shi
                  Again, yes. Every Japanese, from birth, was imbued with the idea - to die for the glory of the Queen of England.

                  Oh children, but who in 35 years made a secular state out of medieval Japan, who gave a gun into his hands and built a gun factory, shipyard ships, and who gave European technology and education?
                  You write about the Korean and Chinese territories, and they have something to do with Japan, which before the Meiji revolution did not know those areas. What did the kings need to mince before the Japs?
                  Russia took what was needed to defend the Empire, but it did not capture. Maybe I have an imperial mentality, I myself am from Transbaikalia, but you have a different mindset.
                  1. +5
                    7 December 2021 18: 43
                    Quote: tihonmarine
                    Russia took what was needed to defend the Empire,

                    Well, yes. Port Arthur as the last line of defense, right behind it is Red Square. Yes
                    Quote: tihonmarine
                    but it was not exciting.

                    wassat good
                    Quote: tihonmarine
                    Maybe I have an imperial mindset

                    When the eyes are so envious that they pull a piece into their mouth, two times the size of that very mouth ... And as a result, that very mouth bursts from ear to ear ... This is not imperial thinking, this is a banal mental disorder.
                    That's all. For to explain that only inadequate ones do not measure the demands and possibilities. tired of it.
                    1. -5
                      7 December 2021 18: 49
                      Quote: Lannan Shi
                      Maybe I have an imperial mindset

                      When the eyes are so envious that they pull a piece into their mouth, two times the size of that very mouth ...

                      Excuse me this is all true, only in / in Ukraine, keep looking into the Russian company to tear off a piece.
                  2. +6
                    7 December 2021 19: 28
                    Quote: tihonmarine
                    Russia took what was needed to defend the Empire, but it did not capture.

                    Let's turn the board over. Imagine that after another war, won by Russia from Turkey, the Empire receives the Straits under a peace treaty. And then Collective West demands from Russia to return the Straits back to Turkey. And after three years, say, Britain leases the Straits and builds a port and a military base there. smile
                    This is approximately how Japan perceived the lease of the Kwantung Peninsula by Russia, which China was supposed to transfer to Japan under the Shimonoseki Treaty.

                    What about took what was needed to protect the Empire... the problem is that Russia could not provide protection even for what it already had - how much to expand there.
                    Here's how Russia was going to ensure the protection of the Empire by Port Arthur:
                    In the opinion of the local commission, first of all, it was necessary to use some of the old coastal batteries, improve them and properly arm them, and then gradually replace these batteries with new ones. As for the land front, it was recognized that it was necessary to move the line of forts of the projected fortress to the Volch'i Hills, 8 kilometers from the outskirts of the old city. However, this project was not approved, and a special commission was sent to Port Arthur in October 1898, which drew up another draft. The latter differed from the first in that its line of forts did not reach the Wolf Mountains, but went about 4 1/2 kilometers from the outskirts of the city, along the Dagushan - Dragons ridge - Panlunshan - Angular Mountains - High Mountain and White Wolf height. This line of land defense met the requirements of covering the core of the fortress from bombardment, but had a length of about 70 km and required a 70th garrison and 528 land weapons, not counting coastal and reserve weapons.
                    An interagency meeting, which this project came up for consideration, trying to save costs on Kwantui both by people and money, spoke out against the project, and the latter was not approved. At the same time, a wish was expressed that, in general, the Qantong garrison should not exceed the number of bayonets and sabers available there, namely 11 people, so that "organizing the protection of the peninsula would not be excessively expensive and politically dangerous."
                    © Yakovlev
                    What kind of defense of the Empire can we talk about if economy and unwillingness to provoke the rest of the Powers are at the forefront of building a defense?
                    1. +1
                      7 December 2021 21: 00
                      Quote: Alexey RA
                      What kind of defense of the Empire can we talk about if economy and unwillingness to provoke the rest of the Powers are at the forefront of building a defense?

                      -Russia of Emperor Alexander I saved Europe from the empire of Napoleon, as a result we got mighty Germany and Austria-Hungary on our western borders, strengthened the ambitions of Britain.
                      -State Nicholas I sent the Russian army to Hungary to suppress the revolution of 1848, saved the Austrian Empire and the Habsburg dynasty. In "gratitude" Vienna showed extreme hostility during the Eastern (Crimean) War and constantly interfered with Russia in Balkan affairs.
                      -Emperor Alexander II remained neutral in 1870, giving Prussia to brilliantly defeat France and create the German Empire on her blood. Eight years later, at the Berlin Congress, Germany did not support Russia, which deprived her of the brilliant fruits of the victory over the Ottoman Empire.
                      -In 1945, Hitler was defeated, and they got more enemies than ever.
                      WHAT DID EUROPE DO FOR RUSSIA at least once?
                    2. 0
                      9 December 2021 01: 52
                      "... the problem is that Russia could not provide protection even for what it already had .."
                      //////////////////////////////////////////////// /////////
                      For example, France. Its area is shown at 48th place in the world. But this is only the area of ​​the metropolis itself in Europe. If we add to it the total area of ​​its overseas territories, with their 200 mile (320 km) economic zones, then the economically controlled area of ​​France will be in first place. And this does not bother the French at all about their protection ..
                  3. -1
                    8 December 2021 06: 59
                    You write about the Korean and Chinese territories, and they have something to do with Japan, which before the Meiji revolution did not know those areas


                    But what about the Imija war?

                    Russia took what was needed to defend the Empire, but she did not seize


                    If we do not defend Rossiyushka on Liaohe, then we will have to fight the Japs on the Volga !!
  6. -1
    7 December 2021 13: 53
    The author, political and economic transformations in Russia began to take place as a result of the revolution of 1905-1907, and not the defeat at Tsushima or Mukden on the edge of the world.

    If there were no revolution, there would be no cancellation of redemption payments, no duma, no basic rights of citizens.
    1. +6
      7 December 2021 14: 10
      And the revolution happened as a result?
      1. 0
        7 December 2021 14: 48
        RYAV is one of the factors. The rock that caused the avalanche was Bloody Sunday.
        1. +2
          7 December 2021 15: 29
          Quote: Kitty Moore


          RYAV is one of the factors. The rock that caused the avalanche was Bloody Sunday.

          The abscess matured for a long time, and on January 9 it burst. But he also has surnames.
          1. -2
            7 December 2021 15: 31
            Everyone has names. But to blame the deep systemic crisis in which Russia found itself on war ... In my opinion, this is nonsense.
            1. +1
              7 December 2021 15: 35
              Quote: Kitty Moore
              But to blame the deep systemic crisis in which Russia found itself on war ... In my opinion, this is nonsense.

              In a war it is always easier to create a crisis. The authorities are fixated on the war, and the "revolutionaries" are fixated on the revolution.
      2. -1
        7 December 2021 15: 27
        Quote: Olezhek
        And the revolution happened as a result?

        Revolutions are made by those who will not tell you anything about the revolution.
  7. -3
    7 December 2021 14: 07
    I did not read the title further.
    But he could not react either.
  8. 0
    7 December 2021 14: 07
    As enemies of the communists, any fact can be perverted to their advantage, exposing shortcomings for achievements, achievements for defeats, victories for defeats, defeats for victories.
    1. The comment was deleted.
      1. The comment was deleted.
    2. -2
      7 December 2021 15: 37
      Quote: tatra
      As enemies of the communists, any fact can be perverted to their advantage, exposing shortcomings for achievements, achievements for defeats, victories for defeats, defeats for victories.

      And the main thing is that no one can answer these perverters and shut their mouths.
  9. 0
    7 December 2021 14: 16
    Quote: Kitty Moore
    And what did the puppeteers get as a result of this war with Russia?

    They stopped the advance of Russia to the East and tied her hands in other parts of Eurasia in confrontation with the main puppeteer of that time - England ...
    political and economic transformations in Russia began to take place as a result of the revolution of 1905-1907, and not the defeat at Tsushima or Mukden

    And the revolution itself occurred as a result of the defeat at Tsushima and Mukden ...
    1. +2
      7 December 2021 14: 51
      January 9, 1905 says something?
      1. +1
        7 December 2021 16: 59
        January 9, 1905 says something?

        Citizens' Reaction to Failure in War
        1. -1
          8 December 2021 12: 11
          Have you seen the petition with which the workers went?
  10. +1
    7 December 2021 14: 16
    Everyone is in white tailcoats, we are as usual ...
    I don’t want to read about mistakes.
    One thing is clear, the people of my country have broken the backbone of both the western and eastern ghouls.
  11. -11
    7 December 2021 14: 27
    It seems to me that Russia's main problem is megalomania.
    Belief in our God-chosenness, that we are so good, and the whole world is bad and spiritless, therefore it is against us.
    Many comrades do not understand that the world does not revolve around Russia, that there is no evil general staff, which has one task - to do bad evil to Russia.
    Hence the reverence for laurels, unwillingness to work with the surrounding countries.
    Before the Russian-Japanese war, they threatened to throw hats. Before the Great Patriotic War, they sang about the war in a foreign land and little blood. And now nothing has changed: yes we have missiles, yes we have torpedoes, yes we will grind everyone to powder ...
  12. -1
    7 December 2021 14: 37
    The Japanese first found the Chinese fleet, and then the Russian one. the main principle is that they found a fleet worse than ours. From 1814 to 1943, Russia was beaten by both the Germans and the Japanese and the French with the British. since 1943 we have put everyone in a certain position. Now both the Yankes and ours are foggy, they fought only with a previously weaker enemy. And to swell when meeting with an enemy - like we don't see my F35, but your Zircon will sink your aircraft carrier at once - it's from a cycle of two tramps in the yard - and my brother is a bandit, and my brother is a police maor. God forbid really find out that both brothers are cool and that we all have that portrait in the back of Lavrov.
  13. -3
    7 December 2021 15: 16
    But the war "one on one"For the Russian Empire



    You don't have to read further: who built a navy for Japan, supplied it with 80% pig iron, 95% oil, weapons, machines, wool, etc. (see articles on VO)?

    Who provided her with diplomatic cover and rear services?

    Without England and, to some extent, the United States, Japan is NOTHING, despite
    all her "revolution", hindu. construction, etc.

    Russia fought, in fact, with the alliance of Japan and England. And this is a completely, completely different story ...
    So it was with the Japanese war that Russia was very lucky.

    With the Finnish 1939-1940 - not very, but with the Japanese war - yes, lucky.


    What is the "bad luck" with the Finnish, then?

    Before the theater of operations, zero km (up to the Korean theater of operations 8 thousand km), battles - on many centuries of Russian territory (and the presence of Russia in the Primorye already ... 44 years by 1904), the population of the USSR is 55 times greater than the Finnish (the population of Russia over Japan-in 3 times more), tanks, aircraft - hundreds of times more than Finnish, production - hundreds of times more than Finnish, and at the same time losses are several times greater than Finnish ones (Japanese losses are approximately equal to Russian losses).

    Russia's losses in the Far East are minimal and did not affect anything.

    The consequences of the Winter War are much more terrible: it was she who completely assured the adventurer Hitler that the USSR was a colossus on feet of clay and pushed him to attack the USSR in the hope of the weakness shown earlier
    1. -9
      7 December 2021 15: 28
      Russia fought, in fact, with the alliance of Japan and England. And this is a completely, completely different story ...


      Did the British squadron take part in Tsushima? Again the Englishwoman offended the Russian woman. Eh.
      1. -7
        7 December 2021 16: 12
        Quote: Kitty Moore
        Did the British squadron take part in Tsushima?

        belay and whose?

        4 Japanese battleships built all in England, 6 armored cruisers of the 1st rank - in England and France, 5 cruisers of the 2nd rank - in England and the USA, 11 destroyers - in England

        https://topwar.ru/35006-taynaya-voyna-velikobritanii-protiv-rossii-v-1904-1905-gg.html.
        1. -5
          7 December 2021 16: 25
          Horror. British shipyards have fulfilled the Japanese order for the construction of warships.
      2. +5
        7 December 2021 16: 23
        American cruiser, took the first battle with the Japanese wink
        1. -1
          7 December 2021 16: 28
          Yes, the famous American cruiser "Varyag" together with the Swedish gunboat "Koreets" under the glorious St. Andrew's flag took an unequal battle with the British squadron, which was sailing under the no less glorious Japanese flag .:

          Here is such an international.
          1. +1
            7 December 2021 16: 31
            Here is such an international.
            and no Russo-Japanese war wink Who fought? Americans, Swedes, Britons, etc.wink
      3. Alf
        0
        7 December 2021 19: 05
        Quote: Kitty Moore
        Russia fought, in fact, with the alliance of Japan and England. And this is a completely, completely different story ...


        Did the British squadron take part in Tsushima? Again the Englishwoman offended the Russian woman. Eh.

        And what was Capraz Pekinham doing on Mikasa during the battle?
        1. -1
          8 December 2021 12: 12
          He got lost, got on the wrong ship. It happens.
    2. +1
      8 December 2021 09: 24
      Yes, yes, and even the crews of the Japanese battleships were from the Royal Navy. Accept, RI at the beginning of the 20th century was a failed state, and the Bolsheviks saved what was still possible.

      The stories of the Finns who survived the shelling of the Soviet heavy. artillery was undoubtedly supposed to inspire everyone in a row to go to war with the USSR. I readily believe, everyone knows that these Russians are stupid, and they won’t draw conclusions from a local failure, but thousands of art. their trunks will suddenly disappear.

      the population of the USSR is 55 times larger than the Finnish


      You would have found out what the balance of forces was and did not write nonsense. And indeed the real course of the war.
      1. -2
        8 December 2021 13: 06
        Quote: EvilLion
        Accept, RI at the beginning of the 20th century was a failed state, and the Bolsheviks saved what was still possible.

        failed state is a fleeting rotten decayed regime that disappeared in 91, with complete indifference of all, destroyed the great that was captured in 1917.
        Quote: EvilLion
        The stories of the Finns who survived the shelling of the Soviet heavy. artillery was undoubtedly supposed to inspire everyone in a row to go to war with the USSR.

        inspired the stories of thousands of Soviet prisoners, crazy coincidences and powerful Finnish columns from Soviet prisoners of war
        Quote: EvilLion
        You would have found out what the balance of forces was and did not write nonsense. And indeed the real course of the war.

        so recognize them, ignoramus, and do not be nonsense
  14. +4
    7 December 2021 16: 09
    The situation in Russian society is now very similar to the one that was a hundred years ago, during the Russo-Japanese War.
    1. Alf
      0
      7 December 2021 19: 10
      Quote: CHEREDA73
      The situation in Russian society is now very similar to the one that was a hundred years ago, during the Russo-Japanese War.

      Not in the RYAV, but rather in the years 1915-16. Feast in Time of Plague.
  15. +1
    7 December 2021 16: 21
    the "fully mobilized" Russian army of 1914 had no chances in a one-on-one war with Germany, from the word at all).
    And you won't mind ..
    1. 0
      7 December 2021 17: 37
      Quote: Daniil Konovalenko
      the Russian army of 1914 had no chances in a one-on-one war with Germany, from the word at all).

      The Franks are about the same. request
      1. 0
        7 December 2021 19: 25
        Like the British ...
        In terms of the land army.
        1. 0
          7 December 2021 19: 28
          Quote: hohol95
          Like the British ...
          In terms of the land army.

          Well, before Kitchener, the British army was generally negligible. But the Franks were seriously preparing for a revenge, but ...
          1. +1
            7 December 2021 19: 32
            But they wore red trousers, cooked buoy soup on fires, each department for itself.
            And they hoped (after convincing the Russians) that their 75mm cannon would "wipe out the Gothic hordes" with shrapnel!
            And I had to "run back" to Paris ...
            1. 0
              7 December 2021 19: 40
              Well ... the Franks were the first to adopt a smokeless powder magazine. Their 75 mm "death scythe" really was not bad in the first months of the war. In addition, everyone was fond of this caliber, except perhaps the islanders.
              Quote: hohol95
              But they wore red bloomers

              1. 0
                7 December 2021 20: 33
                They took the rifle with an under-barrel magazine.
                And then they supplemented it with a rifle with 3 rounds in the store.
                And the Russian "three-inch scythe of death" was at first a formidable weapon - after all, the "Frenchwoman" was a relative!
                But the PF grenade put into service in 1908 was "to put it mildly" rather weak. 0,78 kg of explosive. Ricochetting off the ground and air gaps. No instant fuse.
                1. +1
                  7 December 2021 20: 49
                  Quote: hohol95
                  They took the rifle with an under-barrel magazine.

                  in 1886, when the other great powers did not have a horse on this matter. But here, yes, a little false start.
                  1. 0
                    7 December 2021 20: 54
                    In Russia, "there were a lot of rifle horses tossed about" ...
                    They caught up with everything, caught up and settled on the "three-line". Like the French, like the Austro-Hungarians. But the Germans did not stop, the British did not stop ...
      2. +1
        8 December 2021 08: 21
        The Franks understood this very well that they would not "squeeze out" against Germany and were actively pursuing a rapprochement with Russia, which ended with the Entente. RI was promised a lot of "sweets".
        1. +1
          8 December 2021 18: 45
          So after all, we wouldn't have had too much trouble with the victorious Central Powers ...
  16. +1
    7 December 2021 18: 26
    The victory of the Japanese, who were rapidly modernizing their country, over archaic Russia, which fundamentally did not want political reforms, looks quite logical.

    This is probably how Yakovlev urged Gorbachev to carry out political reforms to modernize the country. Gorbachev carried out political democratization.
  17. +8
    7 December 2021 18: 44
    The consequences of the Winter War are much more terrible: it was she who completely assured the adventurer Hitler that the USSR was a colossus on feet of clay and pushed him to attack the USSR in the hope of the weakness shown earlier

    1. The Winter War of the USSR all the same won. And the border conflict with Japan took place in 1939.
    2. No victory over Finland could dissuade Hitler from the complete superiority of Germany and stop the attack on the USSR. And this is the main fault, the war with Finland, and the weakness of tsarist Russia in the war of 1914-17 cannot be beaten. From the First World War in Germany and in people like Hitler (there were a lot of them), full confidence came that the heir to Russia, the colossus with feet of clay, was ripe for seizure and colonization. This idea was already in Mein Kampf for many years before the Winter War.
    3. Most likely, the Winter War led to an additional underestimation of the USSR, which was beneficial to the Red Army and to the detriment of the Wehrmacht.
    1. +1
      7 December 2021 19: 41
      No victory over Finland could dissuade Hitler from the complete superiority of Germany.


      But how to say ... Against the background of Germany, which marched victoriously from Norway to Greece with a stop in Paris - then the capital of a great power ...
      our suffering in the Finnish snow looked strange. request

      How Hitler would have acted in the event of an instant capture of Finland by Stalin is very difficult to say.
      1. +1
        8 December 2021 09: 15
        I'm afraid that this is far from the case, simply because in Finland it is very easy to block any detours purely geographically on the one hand, and on the other, the ratio of forces in December 1939 was almost 1: 1, since the Finns were promised help, and those, leaning against it, carried out mobilization, sharply increasing the army. With the 3rd, as soon as the Red Army realized that the enemy was stronger than it seemed, they pulled up the appropriate forces with artillery, after which the Finns cheerfully surrendered. So, in addition to failures with roundabout maneuvers, and lack of initiative of commanders, like the "innocently repressed" divisional commander Vinogradov, there is also a completely successful solution to the problem of breaking through the fortified zone.

        The successes of the Wehrmacht in France characterize the quality of the Wehrmacht, not the Red Army, and to call the French army incompetent would be a strong exaggeration.

        And if anyone has forgotten and did not know, the Japanese in 1941-42 inflicted a series of catastrophic defeats on the Americans and the British with a loss ratio much worse for the United States than we had in 41. The irony is that by chance, or no coincidence, the Japanese lost at Midway, but then things went frankly sucks for them, including on land, despite the fact that the quality of the American army was not close to the Wehrmacht or the Red Army. , it was created in the 42nd year almost from scratch.
        1. Alf
          0
          8 December 2021 19: 07
          Quote: EvilLion
          there is also quite a successful solution to the problem of breaking through the fortification zone.

          Especially if you remember the snow and the temperature ...
      2. Alf
        0
        8 December 2021 19: 06
        Quote: Olezhek
        our suffering in the Finnish snow looked strange.

        For whom ? For Germany? Well, she ran across Europe in the summer, and these are somewhat different things.
  18. +2
    7 December 2021 19: 47
    So it was with the Japanese war that Russia was very lucky.

    With the Finnish 1939-1940 - not very, but with the Japanese war - yes, lucky.

    Sorry, why did the Finnish not please you? She, just like a litmus test, helped to identify many problems in the army, and in the navy too. Thanks to the experience gained, before 22.06.1941/XNUMX/XNUMX, they managed to do at least some work on the errors. Yes, and having moved the border away from Leningrad, the Oktyabrskaya railway in Karelia, Belomorkanal, etc. and having received Hanko, the country received real strategic advantages.
    1. -1
      7 December 2021 19: 50
      Sorry, why did the Finnish not please you?


      She, against the backdrop of Hitler's successes, completely discredited the Red Army
      Compare Germany's Norwegian Campaign
      with the Finnish campaign of the USSR
      ?? belay
      1. +4
        7 December 2021 20: 05
        She, against the backdrop of Hitler's successes, completely discredited the Red Army

        She completely discredited only in the eyes of non-professionals, especially some odious politicians.
        Compare Germany's Norwegian Campaign
        with the Finnish campaign of the USSR
        ??

        Did Norway have an analogue of the Finnish "Mannerheim Line" which they began to build twenty years before the war? Is the front line the same length? Mobilization carried out in advance with a mob-reserve of the same size? And most importantly, the same political will and the will of the people to provide armed resistance?
        1. -2
          7 December 2021 20: 11
          Did Norway have an analogue of the Finnish "Mannerheim Line" which they began to build twenty years before the war? Front line


          Germany's Norwegian operation is a masterpiece.
          Just study it.
          1. +2
            7 December 2021 20: 17
            Germany's Norwegian operation is a masterpiece.
            Just study it.

            Enthusiastic, but watery.
  19. 0
    7 December 2021 20: 01
    Quote: SergKam
    Hitler would not have climbed into the USSR, having several times fewer tanks, aircraft, if he were not sure that the Russians are ill prepared for war


    This is how you were treated ....... In reality, no one will ever "climb" anywhere, having fewer tanks, aircraft, guns. Especially after the lessons of WWI. And how did he (Hitler) know that the "Russians are ill-prepared" while having more tanks?
    At least for a minute, try to discard the obvious nonsense about "were ill-prepared with more tanks"! Compare the level of technical development of Western Europe and the USSR ... Equipping even with ordinary motorcycles, trucks, radio equipment ...
  20. +1
    7 December 2021 22: 16
    From the Finnish 1939-1940 - not very,

    And where did winter uniforms of a new type and ski training for the Red Army come from? Very correct conclusions were drawn from the results of the Finnish war. Because of these skis, my father, who was drafted into the artillery in 1940 in Penza from Central Asia, went to the aviation at the first opportunity, reasonably assuming that there would be no skis or horses in aviation.
    1. Alf
      +1
      8 December 2021 19: 23
      Quote: Aviator_
      that there will be no skis or horses in aviation.

      And he had no idea about these planes ..




      lol
      1. +1
        8 December 2021 20: 11
        Let them run on skis, the main thing is not to wear them yourself. Again, an airplane on a ski chassis is a northern exotic. My father had to fight in the Caucasus, Crimea, Belarus (summer 44, Belarusian operation), Poland (autumn-winter) and Germany (spring). Skis were not used anywhere.
        1. Alf
          +1
          8 December 2021 20: 21
          Quote: Aviator_
          the main thing is not to wear it yourself

          good Gold words !
          1. +1
            8 December 2021 20: 34
            Until his last days (he died in 2004, at the age of 82), my father hated skiing, although since 1954 our family lived in Orenburg, where there was enough snow.
            1. Alf
              +1
              8 December 2021 20: 41
              Quote: Aviator_
              Father until his last days (died in 2004, at 82), hated skiing

              Impressions gained in youth last for life and shape outlook for the rest of your life.
              1. +1
                8 December 2021 20: 59
                It's right. And he hated parachute jumping, while studying at the Tashkent school, one cadet crashed in front of everyone during training jumps. He was carried to the side, and the rest were taken to TB-3 and back into the air. No psychologists, no one. He jumped back the prescribed number of times, but the disgust remained. Even when he was shot down - 3 times it happened - he fell along with the plane, he did not use a parachute. There were other people then.
                1. Alf
                  +1
                  8 December 2021 21: 03
                  Quote: Aviator_
                  There were other people then.

                  "Yes, there were people in our time
                  Not that the current tribe
                  Heroes! Not you..."
  21. +2
    7 December 2021 22: 30
    Mind for reason ...
    The series began more than half a century ago: “Stalin believed Hitler and did not trust his intelligence, won the War, having filled up the corpses of the Germans, Hitler attacked the USSR without superiority in weapons simply because he knew that the Russian leaders were fools. Now even` with the war lucky against the Japanese and not lucky against the Finns ... "Chamber N6" .....
  22. 0
    8 December 2021 08: 47
    There is one point, and in the context of the Finnish war.
    Before the RYAV, the Russian army was highly regarded. The first victories of Japan are assessed, both in Russia and in Europe, as accidental, then "something is wrong in the Danish kingdom." Russia draws conclusions and modernizes the army ("had it not been for the hard Manchu lesson, the Russian army would have been defeated in the 14th year" Denikin?).
    And now, by analogy with the Finnish company. The Russian army is weak, and Germany does not start a war in 1914, but in 1906, until the Russian army underwent modernization ...
  23. 0
    8 December 2021 08: 51
    With the Finnish 1939-1940 - not very, but with the Japanese war - yes, lucky.


    In fact, we won the Finnish, and thereby strengthened our position in the Second World War. At the same time, conclusions were drawn from the epic-fail with detours and heavy losses in the environment. And having slapped the Japanese cabbage soup near Khalkhin-Gol, the Red Army did not at all think that everything was bad.

    And then there would be the complete and final "guten Morgen".


    And he was already. Let me remind you that RI ended in 1917.
  24. +3
    8 December 2021 09: 37
    in the domestic military-historical tradition, there is some ridiculous tendency to wind up emotional circles around the defeat, to look for the guilty,
    Apofigeus. Yafshoke. The author just fired a test shot at once at all "obsolete and obsolete" concepts that had formed the basis of the scientific approach before him. That is, he completely rejects all logic, technique of thinking, and other "nonsense"! What a fine fellow...
    Previously, all these mossy hemp thought that after the defeat it was NECESSARY to first of all look for the guilty! Firstly, people are killed in a war, and those guilty of defeat are responsible for FIRST deaths. It is touching how the author brushes it off with magnificent negligence. Well, just think, they killed some soldiers there, what nonsense ...
    Secondly, in order to win, there is no lesson more important than a thorough and detailed analysis of the mistakes made by the specific culprits of the defeat. The author does not give a damn about that, he is above such petty nonsense) All he needs is to emphasize that "Japan has made rapid changes, but Russia has not," and therefore Japan won, and we, accordingly, lost. What a power of reason!
    Actually, a detailed analysis of the powerful defeat of the United States on world markets (which experts in the United States analyzed in detail, found and punished the culprits, and then outplayed the Japanese, turning the defeat into a victory) revealed a pretentious picture. Japan has become a "yellow tiger" in the economy because it has NOT abandoned most of its "old habits."
    Purely feudal troubles brought her victory in the economic war. It was loyalty to the Lord, that is, to the clan, in general to its structure, the willingness to selflessly work for the good of this very structure and other, purely feudal, features of Japanese society that provided an unprecedented economic breakthrough. A purely capitalist society, saturated with capitalist individualism and the thirst for "success", could not oppose anything to feudalism .. Suddenly)
    And the victory over Japan was achieved with the help of deception, sophisticated economic traps, as well as the very psychology of individualism (the psychology of global defeat in general), which the US invaders are furiously introducing in Japan.
    Of course, for the author, all this is complicated, I understand ...
  25. +1
    8 December 2021 10: 07
    but Japan in 1905 is still yesterday (1868 - Meiji revolution) a purely feudal society.
    And what is Russia in 1861?
  26. +1
    8 December 2021 10: 51
    it may well be that in the event of a victory over Japan, the Great War did not happen at all. The empire would be busy reclaiming
    Yellow Russia, she would not have time for the Balkans - Serbia, accordingly, would sit quietly. our Franz Fedinand was not shot.
    the distribution of players among the warring camps would have been different .. the people would have forgiven the Emperor - the winner. after the Second World War and
    not so forgiven.
    1. Alf
      0
      8 December 2021 19: 26
      Quote: sidoroff
      it may well be that in the event of a victory over Japan, the Great War did not happen at all. The empire would be busy reclaiming
      Yellow Russia, she would not have time for the Balkans - Serbia

      Yeah, yeah ... And whose "elite" breathed unevenly towards Europe in general and France in particular?
      1. +1
        8 December 2021 21: 21
        perhaps to Paris for the World Exhibition of Courtesans. Europe is also Germany.
        Kaiser was very interested in success
        RI in the Far East. To get into China and Korea and not interfere with Wilhelm
        in Europe . "Admiral of the Atlantic Ocean Sends Greetings to the Admiral of the Pacific Ocean."
        1. Alf
          +1
          8 December 2021 21: 23
          Quote: sidoroff
          Kaiser was very interested in success
          RI in the Far East. To get into China and Korea and not interfere with Wilhelm
          in Europe . "Admiral of the Atlantic Ocean Sends Greetings to the Admiral of the Pacific Ocean."

          Vivat! About this fact, many either do not know or try not to know.
          1. 0
            9 December 2021 13: 32
            Quote: Alf
            About this fact, many either do not know or try not to know.


            Yes. Who knows little about the work of V. Pikul. smile
            1. Alf
              +1
              9 December 2021 19: 09
              Quote: Illanatol
              Quote: Alf
              About this fact, many either do not know or try not to know.


              Yes. Who knows little about the work of V. Pikul. smile

              The first time I came across this fact while reading Tsushima Novikov-Priboy back in Soviet times.
  27. -4
    8 December 2021 10: 51
    The thoughts and arguments of the author deserve attention! Of course, you want to win non-stop ... but it doesn't work that way. Unfortunately, in Russia, even a full face is not a reason for her to get better. It was not me who came up with the idea: "In Russia, a lot has changed in 20 years, and almost nothing has changed in 200 years." The country, formed by the "Horde" tyranny, for centuries engaged in the selection of the breed of slaves and prisoners with the proven technology "drag and not let go" - has not formed a Nation that has and is capable of defending its own interests, and not serving others. And the "great Russian people" who boast of their "long-suffering" - doing nothing - have long lost their skills of civic responsibility for their country: they swore at Gorbachev and Yeltsin, who "ruined a great power" - and puffed up with pride "I am a patriot." He sneered at Tsar Nicholas, having memorized something from the lessons of the "history" of the Soviet high school - and "everything became clear." But to do anything as a Citizen - soviet pseudo-"society" is not able to! All together and each separately - "nothing to do with it." We are waiting for the "bright future" that we SHOULD ... I have no doubt - we will wait.
  28. 0
    8 December 2021 16: 07
    A very interesting point of view. My compliments to the author.
  29. +1
    8 December 2021 17: 30
    The defeat in the Russo-Japanese War has a lot of factors as reasons, including super inconvenient long logistics (recall the efforts of the British to defeat the Minutemen militias in the rebellious colonies of North America), time - in a couple of years the Japanese would have nothing to catch on the hills of Manchuria, a revolutionary movement , its sharp activation after Bloody Sunday ...
    And the peculiarities of the social system and the presence of liberal freedoms played a much smaller role than even the personal appointment of the commander of the 2nd Rozhdestvensky Squadron, or the absurd death of Makarov. Shimoza in Japanese shells, as a factor worse than the resolution to print a portrait of the emperor?
    And the Germany of 1903 is also far from the Germany of 1914 ...
    So, without defending the inertia of the tsarist government, the article is tendentiously stretched only on this factor.
    But how do you like the Japanese of 1941 with steel teeth in the Far East, when our main cadre units perished and fell into boilers in the far west by hundreds of thousands? Here, too, played a factor that our social and political system was more advanced than the Japanese industrial feudal? Is that why you didn't attack? Or did they expect ... the capture of Moscow, and then Stalingrad?
    But 80 years ago they attacked the "most progressive democracy" - the United States? Did they not understand that a more progressive socio-political formation could not win the war?
    I can only agree that, of course, some conclusions were drawn from the defeat, and the scientific and technological revolution then changed a lot for 10 years, Noviks and dreadnoughts appeared, mine warfare masters grew up, submarines showed their insidious strength, aviation mastered military science. ..
  30. 0
    8 December 2021 17: 35
    Asya just think that without RYA, there could be no PMA. In reality, Russia since the time of Peter the Great did not know defeat. Crimean, yes, but on the one hand there were clashes with almost the rest of the world, with an obvious technological backwardness of Russia. But even in this case, the withdrawal of Russian troops from the PART of Sevastopol and the consent to peace negotiations obviously caused an open sigh of relief from the allies.
    And who was more happy is a big question. In any case, there was no question of a complete defeat, if only in one goal.
    In the RYA, it became obvious that Russia, and dry, could be smashed by a third world country, with at least equal technical capabilities.
    If it were not for the RYaV, the main persons involved in the WWI could well have looked for another way to resolve the contradictions.
    Now about the goals of RYAV.
    Well, the Japanese fleet was defeated, the army was drowned at sea. Mikado was treated in a European way.
    So what?
    Free shipping at the gates between Shanghai and the islands, with the unfavorable attitude of Japan and England, one hell was more than doubtful.
    A pair of light cruisers will quickly discourage potential buyers of Russian grain from following the desire to Dalniy. The cruising of the squadron for the protection of shipping will make trade through this port simply unprofitable.
    Then it would have been better not to bother the PA, but to start an icebreaker flotilla in Vladik.
    1. +2
      8 December 2021 18: 52
      Quote: Grossvater
      In reality, Russia since the time of Peter the Great did not know defeat.

      Austerlitz? No, have not heard...
    2. Alf
      0
      8 December 2021 19: 35
      Quote: Grossvater
      Then it was better not to bother PA

      Let me remind you that Port Arthur was an ice-free port.
      Quote: Grossvater
      and create an icebreaker flotilla in Vladik.

      And where to get the icebreakers? Ermak was built in 1899 and was needed in the Baltic, but there were simply no others, the next were launched already in 1909.
  31. 0
    9 December 2021 09: 31
    The article was written by either a Freemason or Moron.
  32. 0
    9 December 2021 13: 25
    Quote: SergKam
    Hitler would not have climbed into the USSR, having several times fewer tanks, aircraft, if he were not sure that the Russians are ill prepared for war


    It would be useful. They are the true Aryans, who with one stroke of the Teutonic sword are able to crush the hordes of the Unter-Minor orcs.
    In fact, the Germans had a very rough idea of ​​the power of our defense industry. When Hitler was informed that the USSR produced twice as many tanks per month as the Reich with all its allies, he simply did not believe it.
  33. 0
    9 December 2021 13: 31
    Quote: Grossvater
    In the RYA, it became obvious that Russia, and dry, could be smashed by a third world country, with at least equal technical capabilities.


    What is the "third world" in 1905? Scratched, however.
    And what, only technical capabilities matter? RI was waging a war on a distant outskirts, in principle, it could not use most of its military power in such a distant theater of operations.
    Unlike Japan, which, moreover, had the military-technical support of first-class powers (who helped the Japanese create the fleet or built it themselves?)
    And on land the samurai were still not as successful as at sea and suffered considerable losses.
    1. Alf
      0
      9 December 2021 19: 29
      Quote: Illanatol
      in principle, it could not use most of its military power in such a distant theater of operations.

      Suffice it to recall the single-track Transsib ..
      Yes, and Europe "helped" by hinting openly about the possibility of war with Ingushetia in the event that troops were sent from the European part of the Empire to the Far East.
  34. +1
    9 December 2021 13: 33
    Quote: sidoroff
    it may well be that in the event of a victory over Japan, the Great War did not happen at all


    Would have happened in any case. And inevitably RI and Germany would have ended up in different camps.
  35. 0
    9 December 2021 13: 36
    Quote: Olezhek
    Did Norway have an analogue of the Finnish "Mannerheim Line" which they began to build twenty years before the war? Front line


    Germany's Norwegian operation is a masterpiece.
    Just study it.


    Let the Britons study. They screwed up then.
  36. 0
    9 December 2021 13: 56
    Quote: SergKam
    The whole world revolves around Russia. They all envy our God-chosenness.
    Just one question:
    Why the heck did the Americans build factories for us? Stalingrad, Kharkov, Chelyabinsk.


    1. They had a crisis at that time, the "Great Depression" was called. The bourgeois were happy to receive any order, even from Stalin, even from Lucifer, if only the work was paid regularly and on time.
    2. Fits into the scenario of a combination called "World War II". With someone else's hands, with the hands of Germany, it was necessary to "lower" the main competitor of the United States - the British Empire, in order to take away from the British what they had been collecting for several centuries. Therefore, the Yankees and the Reich provided economic and technological assistance. However, there was a risk that Germany would become so strong that it would pose a threat to the United States itself. This means that we need a "cruiser" capable, when required, of sinking the German "icebreaker". Given the historical experience, who is the best to cope with such a task? That's right, the Russians, if they are technically ready. So they helped the USSR forge its military power.
  37. +1
    9 December 2021 14: 01
    Quote: Kitty Moore
    And you do not think that this act of dismemberment of Russia is an ordinary fake remake, created in order to mitigate the effect of defeat in the Crimean War.
    Say: “Look, what did the bastards think of, and what did they get in the end? The same thing. "


    Yes. And what have the British forgotten in our North and Far East? Have you come in for a clean smoke?
    There was clearly a desire to chop off our lands.
  38. +1
    9 December 2021 14: 03
    Quote: Dmitry Bolotsky
    Hard minus! Japan has never been and, thank God, never will be 100% literate.


    Perhaps. But the education system in Japan is one of the best in the world.
    We, too, are now not 100% literate. "Excellent students of the Unified State Exam" are annealed not like a child.
  39. 0
    9 December 2021 14: 08
    Quote: Kitty Moore
    And what did the puppeteers get as a result of this war with Russia?


    Weakened and dependent (primarily financially) on them, the power (RI), ready to meekly fight for other people's interests.
    And also insolent Japan, which overseas puppeteers used as an "icebreaker" to destroy the European colonial empires in the next great war.
    After the Japanese, provoked by the United States, unleash a war in the Pacific Ocean and take away colonies in the region from the European husky, the United States will lower the Japanese and lay its paws on the Japanese "trophies", of course, without thinking of returning them to their old ones (France, Holland, etc.). o) owners. And Japan itself will be made its semi-colony and unsinkable aircraft carrier.
  40. 0
    9 December 2021 18: 40
    The Russo-Japanese War (1904-1945) was won.
    1. Alf
      0
      9 December 2021 19: 31
      Quote: Victor Sergeev
      The Russo-Japanese War (1904-1945) was won.

      What, what?
      1. 0
        10 December 2021 12: 32
        Russia never loses wars, just some last for a very long time, such as peace treaties are concluded, but as a result, Russia ends the war by destroying the invader. As Bismarck said: Do not expect that once you take advantage of Russia's weakness, you will receive dividends forever. Russians always come for their money. And when they come - do not rely on the Jesuit agreements you signed, supposedly justifying you. They are not worth the paper they are written on. Therefore, it is worth playing with the Russians either honestly, or not playing at all. The war started in 1904, continued in 1938,39, 1945, and ended in XNUMX.
        Your trouble is that you are too serious, relax and learn to treat everything with a sense of humor.
        1. Alf
          0
          10 December 2021 19: 14
          Quote: Victor Sergeev
          Your trouble is that you are too serious, relax and learn to treat everything with a sense of humor.

          Well, let's laugh together. Answer the question, when did Russia or the USSR signed a peace treaty? Or is the war still going on?
          1. 0
            15 December 2021 08: 23
            And what is there to answer? On September 2, 1945, Japan signed the Act of surrender, this is the end of the war, as a result of the war between Russia and Japan there is no. The war ends not with a peace treaty, but with the surrender of the enemy. A peace treaty is important when no one loses and the parties agree to end the murder.
            A peace treaty with Japan is needed only for one thing: to consolidate the results of the war and remove the claims of the parties to each other, or rather Japan to Russia, but Russia does not need this Treaty, from the word "absolutely".
            Will we continue to laugh or will we understand it this way?
  41. -1
    13 December 2021 17: 35
    While we, generation after generation, were philosophizing and drafting the ideal social order, the Japanese were "chopping down" the old social order with katanas.

    Russia should have chopped up the old social order with checkers immediately after the Vienna Congress, before technological parity with Europe was lost. Then they could win the Crimean, and Japanese, and Germany in the World War, single-handedly defeat. Because, nevertheless, there are lofty laws of the universe, according to which Russia is not abused, and Russians are always right. And the Russian army is invincible in open war in any alignment of forces, because such is its karma ... But mediocre kings and opponents-cheaters violate these high heavenly laws, for which they will certainly be punished. You will see that even in our youth, Russia will enter a new heyday, surpassing its former success. Pax Ruthenia, indestructible and eternal, is inevitable. So it is foretold by fate.
  42. 0
    15 December 2021 15: 58
    Quote: datura23
    Why do you think Stalin restored the Patriarchate? It would be worth remembering what he studied in his youth.

    Stalin realized that the Communist Party and the communist idea could in no way console and reassure the widow from the loss of all her sons in the war. Therefore, he raised the church from complete decline. Under the atheist communists, the readiness of the USSR for war was much higher than under the Orthodox leaders. But the proclamation has a thousand-year history in Russia and communism did not live to be 100 years old. Nothing happened with the ragrom of Orthodoxy in Ukraine with the joint efforts of Poroshenko and Erdogan under the strict guidance of colleagues of Michael McFaul. The Orthodox Church can pass with a joint procession from Western Ukraine to Eastern Ukraine, but the schismatics are not capable of this and even managed to curse their president.