"Russia and China have upset the technological rhythm": European manufacturers are puzzled by the backlog of weapons

European armies are steadily increasing the technological gap with the three world leaders - Russia, China and the United States, which ultimately threatens the Old World with the loss of design and industrial competencies.

This statement was made by Frank Haun during an interview with LesEchos. He heads the KNDS group of defense companies, which brings together part of German and French weapons manufacturers:

The pace of development of European products does not correspond to the future needs of the armies, as well as the global industrial and technological rhythm, which has recently been greatly upset by Russia and China.

According to him, the current progress of work suggests that the new European ground combat system MGCS and the new generation fighter SCAF will appear no earlier than 2040-2045. At the same time, Moscow already has ready-made platforms in the form of the Su-57 fighter, a heavy strike drone The Su-70, the new generation of heavy armored vehicles represented by the Armata family, the Kurganets (tracked) and Boomerang (wheeled) medium-class armored vehicles “are all designed to enter service in the next few years,” Haun said. The situation is similar in China, which has developed a new generation of fighter J-35, new armored vehicles such as Type-99A or Type-15.

According to the manager, all of these products will replace previous generations of technology in the Russian Federation and China by 2040. Against this background, Europe is betting on the modernization of old platforms, such as the Rafale and Typhoon fighters or heavy Tanks Leclerc and Leopard 2, which are "deprived of the technological advantage over the Su-57, J-35 and other Armata".

This will make European armies operationally inferior in a completely predictable way.

- considers Haun.

Moreover, the technological gap will only deepen, since until Europe finally creates products of a new generation, the Russian Federation, China and the United States will already develop new iterations of previously created systems.

European countries are desperately clinging to 30-year-old designs, basing their vision on equipment replacement rather than on the evolution of technology and military doctrines.

- the head of the group is puzzled by the current situation.

Haun calls for attention to the latest developments in the European defense industry. For example, on the SALAMANDER optical and infrared masking system from Nexter, which, in his words, "is capable of erasing armored vehicles from visual and electro-optical fields." Or the 140mm ASCALON cannon. Or for the SHARK active protection program for armored vehicles.

The implementation of defense programs at the present time must be based on the technological pace set by the three world superpowers, from which the Europeans are lagging more and more

- concludes Haun.

Comments

[Fisherman]

The United States occupied Germany and France by feeding the new EU members, pushing them away from the colonial trough, while they themselves, meanwhile, developed and bought up the technology of war. Euro-fools are mired in their "new Reich" and have lost their competence and, most importantly, TIME. But, if the EU is not going to fight (I'm not talking about NATO, NATO is the United States), then Germany and France are fine as it is, they have no natural enemies-aggressors. So it is debatable whether they need an arms race, and their technologies are already at their best.

[OgnennyiKotik]

Another whining about "give me money", nothing interesting. The military potential of Russia is decreasing every year, the authorities put in place by the "West" are doing everything for this. There are no other enemies. So they annually reduce their armies and air forces, leaving only the expeditionary forces.

[Volder]

Quote: OgnennyiKotik

Russia's military potential falls annually

It grows annually.

the power put by the "west" is doing everything for this

Sanctions are not imposed against those countries where the colonial authorities have been installed.

There are no other enemies.

Of course there is. In the US official document "National Defense Strategy," Russia appears as an enemy. It says that Russia seeks to establish spheres of influence close to its borders, thereby challenging the power of the United States, undermining American security and prosperity, and also contrary to American ubiquitous values. And the fact that the United States wants to extend its influence over the entire globe is real democracy.

[Real Pilot]

"Russia and China have upset the technological rhythm"

And he was upset, and then offended! I got angry and stamped my foot ...

When they talk about the decline of Europe, in addition to moral decay, they mention the fact that European countries are no longer monopolies in the field of technology. The same USA can still be attributed to the conditional European civilization, and Russia too ... But other parts of the world are stepping on their heels.

Earlier, the Indians were armed with bows, and the Europeans were armed with guns. Their luxuries and firewater seemed so attractive that they gave anything for them ...

Ships and guns as a means of domination and conquest, achievements in science and technology, the ideology of human-centeredness ... No one had such a thing.
And now these and other benefits of civilization are available to everyone, the forcedly recognized right to colonialism and racial superiority has disappeared.

And the Europeans themselves, without an external inflow of cheap material and human resources, can hardly compete with the rest of the world. This is a fact, without understanding which European civilization is doomed to degradation. New ways are needed, the old system is exhausting itself.

[Vladimir Mashkov]

Europeans: "Ay-ay-ay! It turns out that Russia and China have overtaken Europe and a little bit the United States in military technology! What to do, what to do?"

[Nikon O'Conor]

You are blacks in Africa, and tell the other Mexicans how well they live ...

[tralflot1832]

You still fry, we have only cartoons with China. Europe with a hygemon is ahead of the whole planet. If we were lagging behind, it wouldn’t be borzels like that. Or the pug is still lagging behind. Why bark then. We wanted a drynom along the ridge. So we are too lazy, that's when all gather in a heap and finally decide. And ask very much.

[Popandos]

a camouflage system in optical and infrared spectra SALAMANDER from Nexter, which, in his words, "is able to erase armored vehicles from visual and electro-optical fields."

Wow, how is that? I did not find it in the hum

[rotfuks]

The reality is even harsher than Frank Haun reports. What talk about military equipment can there be if the automotive industry in Germany has been stuck for a year already. All factory sites are packed with MAN trucks. Trucks seem to be there, but without electronic boards supplied from China, these trucks are not there. Nobody produces electronics in Europe due to the lack of their own elementary base. Everything is tied to China. Apparently, the Europeans will build new weapons with the participation of China.

[SSR]

Quote: rotfuks

Trucks seem to be there, but without electronic boards supplied from China, these trucks are not there.

This is a problem for many)))
Here the reason is further and deeper, Europe is generally a backyard here.
The primary sources are the whole point.
Europe without rees is becoming a thing of the past.

[Gvardeetz77]

Show this F. Huang photos of the latest tanks with welded on "roof" or "young" B-52s, let him calm down a little ...

[Klingon]

Uh-huh, that's right, in Germany they still fly on Phantoms and Tornadoes

[Boa kaa]

Quote: Klingon

in Germany, Phantoms and Tornadoes still fly

There is a tornado, 88 units. Typhons - 140 (143) units. - is also there. But the Fants have been gone for a long time.

[Klingon]

Just yesterday I watched a documentary on Die Welt about the Luftwaffe. Phantoms F-4 are and are used as training

[Boa kaa]

Quote: Klingon

Phantoms F-4 are and are used as training

Apparently you watched a very old chronicle, because in the training units of the Luftwaffe there are 69 units of turboprop T-6 and 40 units of jet T-38. There is no F-4, from the word AT ALL.

[Klingon]

I just looked at the table of the list of training aircraft, but you are right, 175 Phantom F-4Fs were there as training aircraft until 2013. So yes, you see an old film, but I did not watch it at first and not to the end (at work)

[businessv]

The implementation of defense programs at the present time must be based on the technological pace set by the three world superpowers, from which the Europeans are lagging more and more

This has been happening since the EU began to actively grunt at mattresses, thereby giving its already very limited independence to their sweaty hands. Taking into account the fact that recently at the helm of the states are very illiterate, and for the most part hostile to us people, old Europe began to look very unattractive. By facilitating the adoption of direct American satellites in the EU and NATO - Tribals and Poles, the states strengthened their positions in Europe, weakened the EU economically, and using the influence of these countries in the Council of Europe on the adoption of important laws and decisions by the latter, they are still indirectly involved in the governance of the EU. IMHO

[Dizel200]

Gays better stop fussing

[voyaka uh]

The German thickened the colors a little, of course.
So far, the basis of the Russian Air Force is the 4th generation aircraft Su-30 and Su-35.
On a class approximately equal to Typhoon and Rafal.
It's the same with tanks.
The basis of the Russian tank fleet is T-72, T-80, not so many T-90.
On a class equal to Leopard-2 and Leclerc.

[Geofiz]

How to say, he did not exaggerate, he embellished a little, we just already have the technology and in the near future we can stamp the listed weapons (if there is political will, God forbid, they will not plunder the latter) and Europe does not yet have technologies, and so far we will stamp, they will only develop, in short, we have a stock in the region of 10 years plus or minus ...
And the song is of course all about the same, give me money

[voyaka uh]

"we already have the technology and in the near future we can stamp the listed weapons" ///
---
The Russian military-industrial complex has serious problems with "stamping".
And they are precisely technological, not political or financial.
character.
Therefore, the Su-57 is moving from prototype to series with such difficulty.
And the Armata tank too.

[Geofiz]

Well, this is understandable, there is time for this, in the next 2-3 years they will set up the conveyor and it will go, I think Uralvagonzavod will be able to do this, if 20 reinforcement plus minus are delivered by the end of this year, then it will be easier in the future, here with su -57 I think everything is more complicated, it will be much more technological, the main thing now for 57 is to finish the product 30, maybe then it will go more and more fun

[Boa kaa]

Quote: voyaka uh

The Russian military-industrial complex has serious problems with "stamping".
And they are precisely technological, not political or financial.

Or rather, they were. Yes, the Yankees imposed sanctions on us, they cut off the channels for obtaining the latest Western technologies in an attempt to slow down the development of MBT (AME).
We had to develop our own Russian technologies ourselves, which took time and money. But it turned out no worse than that of the sworn partners, and sometimes even better (Rosatom, Rostec ...)
New production facilities are under construction or have already been built for these technologies. So, the "starting" stage of mass production has already passed. Therefore, the matter is small - finances. However, the new technology is expensive. Therefore, a balanced approach and balance is needed so as not to bleed (which the partners are counting on) our economy and finances in the arms race.
Now a new topic is opening - rocket and space weapons. This is where the new "battlefield" will be. And here Chubais buried the NANO, and the electronics are at the level of the beginning of the century ... This is what you need to "be impressed" and not look at your feet as "toys of yesterday" crawl.
IMHO.

[bk316]

And here Chubais buried NANO, and the electronics are at the level of the beginning of the century ...

At the level of the first decade of the century, to be exact.
For the military-industrial complex, this is not scary.
It is much more important to COMPLETELY localize production chains.
Actually, the article is in a sense about it.
The EU is not only lagging behind technologically - it is completely dependent on international cooperation. Without the PRC, they cannot make a 5th generation aircraft and tanks and air defense systems and nothing new at all.

[Boa kaa]

Quote: bk316

Without the PRC, they cannot make a 5th generation aircraft and tanks and air defense systems and nothing new at all. It is much more important to COMPLETELY localize production chains.

more precisely, without REE, of which 97% is exported by China. Agree. Addiction like drug addicts ... before the "break" of all production chains.

[bk316]

Well, yes . I still think what will start if / when China joins Taiwan.
Almost all of the element base will be produced in one country. Both civil and military and general purpose and special. Moreover, it may happen that we are in second place. But the United States under Trump has realized this and is slowly trying to reverse the process.

[Fisherman]

Quote: OgnennyiKotik

Another whining about "give me money", nothing interesting. The military potential of Russia is decreasing every year, the authorities put in place by the "West" are doing everything for this. There are no other enemies. So they annually reduce their army and air force, leaving only the expeditionary forces.

How do your training manuals calculate the military potential? If you measure in success, then the RF Armed Forces after Syria, something else and African Wagner's travels have a military potential an order of magnitude higher than that of the Yankees with their flight from Afghanistan, the Arab world and Latin America ... or else it will be in Southeast Asia!

[d1975]

It is interesting to watch the videos, of course, but they do not understand that for the rosich they are props! Intellect on the Balon system, we urgently need to cancel it, while we think how it should be !!!

[Teador]

Quote: tralflot1832

You still fry, we have only cartoons with China. Europe with a hygemon is ahead of the whole planet. If we were lagging behind, it wouldn’t be borzels like that. Or the pug is still lagging behind. Why bark then. We wanted a drynom along the ridge. So we are too lazy, that's when all gather in a heap and finally decide. And ask very much.

Not all cartoons are also layouts AND TWO SERIAL. Airplane 5 GENERATION. For example, tiny Israel already has a third squadron of the fifth generation, and a plywood mat and a shah so duc in the states with China have already been seen in flight for the sixth generation

[Zomanus]

Well, yes, Europeans are high-handed. They have no one to fight with, and accordingly, there is no need to spend money on the development and creation of new weapons. Well, it also led to degradation.

[Vasyan1971]

Quote: Zomanus

Well, it also led to degradation.

This is good! Let them continue to degrade (get high) for their own pleasure!

[Maga Winner]

Queen Elizabeth and Charles de Gaulle do not count, by 2400 we will also have full-fledged nuclear aircraft carriers

[eehnie]

The United States has completely wiped out the European defense industry over the past 30 years and did so to establish monopoly terms for the United States defense industry, under the guise of enforcing "NATO standards," due to a strong appetite and desire to parasitize European defense budgets of the military defense industry oligarchs U.S.A.

The example of the French submarine industry is just the latest of many.

(Automatically translated from English. Below is the original commentary in English)

The United States totally killed the European defense industry in the last 30 years, and did it to stablish condidtions of monopoly for the defense industry of the United States, under the guise of enforcing "NATO standards", because of the strong apetite and wish of parasitation of the European defense budgets of the oligarchs of the United States military defense industry.

The example of the French submarine industry is only the last of many.

[belly]

Managers, they are such managers ... And in general, it does not matter where, whether in Europe or local.

[Runner2022]

Naturally, they are afraid that Russia and China have become leaders in military technology and in almost all major areas. Let them get used to it, this is still the beginning.

[pytar]

Frank Haun heads the KNDS group of defense companies, which brings together part of German and French arms manufacturers:

The usual lobbying in the interests of the military-industrial complex. Europe spend huge sums of money on welfare of its citizens, and military and R&D expenditures are at a minimum. Such unhealthy socialism is spreading in leftist Europe. Of course, the right-wing circles behind the interests of the military-industrial complex are dissatisfied.

[Apollo]

At the same time, Moscow already has ready-made platforms in the form of the Su-57 fighter, the Su-70 heavy attack drone, a new generation of heavy armored vehicles represented by the Armata family, the Kurganets medium-class armored vehicles (tracked) and Boomerang (wheeled) - " they are all slated for commissioning in the next few years, ”Haun said.

They just laugh at Russia, because the author is addressing his message, mainly to the generation that has gone through the full course of stupidity during the years of Putin's education reform.

[Uncle Vanya Susanin]

addresses its message, mainly to the generation that has gone through the full course of stupidity during the years of Putin's education reform.

Putin has stupid a whole generation of Europeans, so much so that they lagged behind in the development of weapons from Russia and China? Yes, when does he manage to do all this !!!?

[Apollo]

No, my dear fellow, your Fuhrer has made a fool of a whole generation of Russians, and since you think so, you are one of them. I sympathize, but I can’t help. As for Europe, they continue to develop and produce new models of Mercedes, Lamborghinis, Airbus and other "nishtyaks" from which the Russian Federation goes into hysterics. If we compare with you, their result of stupidity is practically zero.

[Uncle Vanya Susanin]

No, no, my dear, he made a fool of a whole generation of Russians, and since you think so, you are one of them.

Well, okromya minya, he disappeared, I look, and I got to you, oh, this Puten reached out

European armies are steadily increasing the technological gap with the three world leaders - Russia, China and the United States, which ultimately threatens the Old World with the loss of design and industrial competencies.

This statement was made by Frank Haun during an interview with LesEchos. He heads the KNDS group of defense companies, which brings together part of German and French weapons manufacturers:

I didn’t know that LesEchos was writing for the Russians, apparently Putin was forcing, well, in order to stupid

As for Europe, they continue to develop and produce new models of Mercedes, Lamborghinis, Airbus and other "nishtyaks" from which the Russian Federation goes into hysterics.

Exactly, as if I somehow go out into the street, and there everyone is lying in hysterics, I ask, what happened? but they answer me, everything is gone, fresh Lamborghinis from Europe have not been brought,

[Apollo]

Since you really perceive the indicated fears and praises in relation to the Russian Federation at face value, even with quotations, and even flirting, God knows, I was not mistaken in my statement.

[Uncle Vanya Susanin]

Since you really take these fears and praises regarding the Russian Federation at face value,

My dear, where did you see the praise there? Just a statement of fact, no more, or in your opinion

They just laugh at Russia,

, and over China and the United States then apparently laughing loudly, like horses, guess what?

He heads the KNDS group of defense companies, which brings together part of German and French weapons manufacturers:

Well, it's a no brainer - "alarm, give me a penny"

[Apollo]

I see no reason to broadcast my message twice.

[Uncle Vanya Susanin]

Here, I see no point in broadcasting your message and once!

[Apollo]

You signed in stupidity. With which I congratulate.

[Uncle Vanya Susanin]

Stultorum infinitus est numerus.

Don't worry, we are both.