Small missile ships of project 22800 "Karakurt" will strengthen the Pacific Fleet

Small missile ships of project 22800 "Karakurt" will strengthen the Pacific Fleet. The Ministry of Defense made a decision to introduce RTOs into the Primorskaya flotilla diverse forces of the Pacific Fleet.

The military department decided to equip the 165th brigade for the protection of the water area, stationed in Vladivostok, with new MRK "Karakurt". In its structure, the "Karakurt" should replace the Soviet-built Project 1241 missile boats. As they write "News" citing military sources, the delivery of new RTOs will depend on the timing of the state defense order.

As planned by the military, the Karakurt stationed in Vladivostok will be responsible for the defense of the main naval base of the Pacific Fleet, as well as Sakhalin and the Kuril Islands. If necessary, they can be transferred to Kamchatka. It is emphasized that RTOs are capable of striking not only sea targets, but also ground targets. Depending on their missions, they can carry Caliber cruise missiles or Onyx anti-ship missiles.

Currently, six RTOs of the Karakurt project have been ordered for the Pacific Fleet, the agreement provides for the construction of four RTOs at the Amur shipyard and two more at Vostochnaya Verf in Vladivostok. According to the available information, RTOs will begin to arrive at the Pacific Fleet from next year, but this is not certain, since these data are unofficial. However, it is safe to say that the construction of the series is underway.

The 22800 small rocket ships are the Russian series of multi-purpose rocket and artillery ships of the near-sea zone (small corvettes). The main purpose of the ISCs is to conduct combat operations in the near-sea zone and perform tasks independently and as part of ship groups.

RTOs "Karakurt" have a length of 67 meters, a width of 11 meters and a draft of 4 meters. Displacement - about 800 tons, cruising range - up to 2500 miles, autonomy - 15 days. The main armament is one PU UKSK (universal ship complex) 3S14 RK for 8 KR "Caliber", one 76-mm gun mount AK-176MA, ZRPK "Pantsir-M", two 14.5-mm or 12,7-mm machine gun mounts MTPU.

Comments

[Bashkirkhan]

The problem was not solved with engines.

[Sandor Clegane]

Quote: Bashkirkhan

The problem was not solved with engines.

with Ukraine too

[Eugene-Eugene]

And with football, and with the migration of long-eared owls

[Sandor Clegane]

Quote: Eugene-Eugene

And with football, and with the migration of long-eared owls

this should not be written to me, but above, to whom I answered, in the same manner

[Vladimir Mashkov]

There are problems. But they, I think, will be resolved. And Vasily Makarovich once said well about "Karakurt" in the film: "The bug is small, but it stinks!"

[Flooding]

Quote: Bashkirkhan

The problem was not solved with engines.

what's the problem
like St. Petersburg makes the plant "Zvezda" diesel engines M507

[Name Surname]

The problem is that they are produced in an amount of either 1 or 2 sets per year.
A lot of Karakurt are being built in parallel, and even minesweepers with these engines

[Flooding]

Quote: Name Surname

The problem is that they are produced in an amount of either 1 or 2 sets per year.

"According to Mil.Press FlotProm with reference to the director of the enterprise Anatoly Rusin, the Kingisepp Machine-Building Plant has begun cooperation with the Zvezda diesel plant on the issue of accelerating the manufacture and delivery of diesel engines within the framework of the state defense order (GOZ) and the shipbuilding program of the Russian Navy."

declared readiness to manufacture in Kingisepp up to 10 engines per year

details: https://vpk-news.ru/news/44988

for minesweepers, the Kolomna diesel engines may be suitable, which can be produced in large quantities.
plugging only into gearboxes.

[Bashkirkhan]

Quote: Flood

declared readiness to manufacture in Kingisepp up to 10 engines per year

Kingiseppu did not transfer the documentation to the engines, they are now suing in arbitration. They did not transfer the design documentation and technological conditions for the equipment, on the basis of which it is put into production.

[Flooding]

Quote: Bashkirkhan

Kingiseppu did not transfer the documentation to the engines, they are now suing in arbitration.

Can I link to the source?

[Bashkirkhan]

Источник https://www.rbc.ru/spb_sz/21/08/2020/5f3f9c3e9a7947e2c1f25766

[Flooding]

so it was more than a year ago

"according to lawyers, this decision may mean an early completion of the dispute in favor of KMZ"

[Bashkirkhan]

They have been in litigation since 2018, in 2020 there has not been an appeal yet. It's like Santa Barbara.

[Flooding]

Quote: Bashkirkhan

They have been in litigation since 2018, in 2020 there has not been an appeal yet. It's like Santa Barbara.

and again:
can you provide a link to prove your words?

[Bashkirkhan]

https://flotprom.ru/2020/%D0%9E%D0%B1%D0%BE%D1%80%D0%BE%D0%BD%D0%BA%D0%B085/
Engine problems, contract breaks, etc.

[Flooding]

does it mean that the "karakurt" was ordered without having an engine supplier?
do you think this is possible?

[Bashkirkhan]

Quote: Flood

does it mean that the "karakurt" was ordered without having an engine supplier?
do you think this is possible?

That's right, the supplier can deliver a maximum of two sets of engines per year. The fleet, the Pella shipyard and the Almaz Central Marine Design Bureau until the summer of 2018 did not have reliable and objective information on the scale of the disaster at Zvezda and, lulled by the reports of its management, hoped for the timely execution of contracts.

[Flooding]

Quote: Bashkirkhan

That's right, the supplier can deliver a maximum of two sets of engines per year.

You will decide whether "Zvezda" is handing over these kits or the Ministry of Defense has canceled the contract.
one with the other is difficult to combine.

[Bashkirkhan]

Zvezda broke the contract for the supply of engines for the Karakurt. Is it clear now?

[Flooding]

Quote: Bashkirkhan

Zvezda broke the contract for the supply of engines for the Karakurt. Is it clear now?

as you previously wrote differently - about the termination of the contract by the Ministry of Defense.

you may have forgotten. that's all right.

[Bashkirkhan]

Quote: Flood

as you previously wrote differently - about the termination of the contract by the Ministry of Defense.

I gave the link, go in, read. Some of the contracts of the Ministry of Defense with Zvezda have been terminated, proceedings are underway in court for the disruption of a number of contracts, Zvezda is suing Kingisepp for documentation, the Ministry of Defense is going bankrupt for disruption of the terms for Karakurt, the Pella plant.

[Flooding]

Quote: Bashkirkhan

I gave the link, come in, read

I read the title of the screenshot you posted
is it not accurate?

[Bashkirkhan]

It is better to see the entire publication and comments
https://topwar.ru/182891-minoborony-razryvaet-kontrakt-s-peterburgskoj-zvezdoj-na-postavku-sudovyh-dizelej.html

[Alexey RA]

Quote: Flood

You will decide whether "Zvezda" is handing over these kits or the Ministry of Defense has canceled the contract.
one with the other is difficult to combine.

It's just that these events were going on sequentially.
First, Zvezda signed a contract for the supply of its 112-pot monsters for RTOs.
Then, when the already built ships without a power plant were hovering at the outfitting walls, it suddenly became clear that Zvezda could not physically make more than two sets of power plants per year.
The plant began to bustle, giving out diesel "per hour by a teaspoon" and at the same time failing any schemes for solving the situation, such as organizing production in Kingisepp.

On December 21, 2018, the plaintiff and the defendant entered into a contract that provided for the manufacture and supply of diesel products for the acquisition of the order of the head. No. 805 of project 22800. That is, the propulsion system for the Typhoon RTOs laid at the Gorky Zelenodolsk plant.
As a result of the trial, the court found guilty of disrupting the execution of the contract ... the plaintiff! That is, PJSC "Star".
And so it happens.
What was the St. Petersburg plant charged with?
And the reason for the non-fulfillment of the contract, it turns out, was the completely delayed transfer of technological documentation. In general, Zvezda was supposed to transfer documents to the engines back in 2018, but for some reason did not.

© VO. We puff and smoke on the spot. 25.03.2020/XNUMX/XNUMX.
This idiot dragged on for two years, after which the Ministry of Defense in 2021 terminated the contract with Zvezda. The size of the tooth for the leadership of "Zvezda", which has grown from the state, is evidenced by the fact that the top of the enterprise was almost immediately arrested.

Former managers of the Zvezda defense plant have been arrested in St. Petersburg. On Thursday, June 10, the Nevsky District Court of St. Petersburg chose a preventive measure against four defendants in the criminal case initiated at the end of April 2021 under Part 4 of Art. 160 of the Criminal Code of the Russian Federation (misappropriation or embezzlement).
According to the investigation, the former general directors of PJSC Zvezda, which specializes in the development and production of high-speed diesel engines, Pavel Plavnik and Mikhail Lobin, as well as former deputy directors of the enterprise Oleg Grigoriev and Sergei Orlov, “acting in collusion, stole more than 142 million rubles.” This was reported by the United Press Service of the Courts of St. Petersburg. The prosecution believes that this money, intended for the business of Zvezda, was transferred to the accounts of one-day firms under fictitious contracts under the pretext of supplying products.

© RBC

[Flooding]

Quote: Alexey RA

It's just that these events were going sequentially.

Alexey RA, thanks.
I already had a glimpse of it.
I was interested in the reasoning of the interlocutor.

And yet it is obvious that karakurt will not remain without engines.
And if the project is recognized as successful, then the project will either be changed for other engines, or the issue with the production of the M507 will be resolved.
Moreover, "Zvezda" recently boasted about the modernization of this twin. The new manager who replaced the stolen one was just talking about this.

I also read at one of the thematic forums that the contract for the construction of two ships in Vladivostok has been terminated.
And only four ships will be built for the Pacific Fleet.

[Barberry25]

it's easier to remake for Kolomna engines

[Flooding]

Quote: Barberry25

it's easier to remake for Kolomna engines

Kolomna makes medium-speed

[Barberry25]

What's the difference for an MRC or a light corvette?

[demiurg]

It would be nicer to know that Karakurt was made an insert, and the displacement reserve was used for the Package and GAS + platform for unmanned aerial vehicles. And then a series of 12-16 boats could solve the problem of replacing both missile boats and OVR ships.

[donavi49]

3 high-speed diesels with 112 cylinders each is what you need to search for submarines. Even a search is not needed. Give full speed - the boats will float themselves with white flags, acoustics with bleeding ears will start falling out of the wheelhouse, and the hydroacoustics compartment will burn, because the equipment will not withstand such an overload .

Well, what's the point of doing a PLO out of this thundering boat? All submarines will fix it from the stage of leaving the base.

[demiurg]

If I write that OVR ships based on Project 22160 are needed, I’ll have a week, otherwise Timokhin will dream more, scolding me with an angry face. So I won't, although I really want to.

At low speed, the Albatrosses could work with the stars, and the Karakurt will be able to.

[donavi49]

The albatross is outdated, including the power plant, back in the days of the USSR. Back in the days of the USSR, there were works to replace the Albatross.

For modern boats of the latest generation (possessed by Germany, Japan, South Korea, China, built by Sweden and Norway) - the effectiveness of the Albatross is extremely dubious.

[Alexey RA]

Quote: demiurg

If I write that OVR ships based on Project 22160 are needed, I’ll have a week, otherwise Timokhin will dream more, scolding me with an angry face. So I won't, although I really want to.

Duc ... the OVR corvette needs an electric ship, a full-fledged GAK with 2-3 GAS, a helicopter, light TA instead of the "Packet" and air defense for self-defense against a pair of anti-ship missiles.
In short, neither 22800 nor 22160 will work. Can it be worth lightening 20380?

[Barberry25]

here one of two things either put Karakurt on the Kolomna engines and increase it, or decrease 20385, but then he needs to cut down on the air defense so that it comes out cheaper and can be driven into series ..

[Barberry25]

a boat of 1 tons?

[Bear]

It is certainly great that these "nibbles" will replace 1241 and enhance the strike capabilities of the Pacific Fleet, but where are the new anti-submarine ships?

[Vadim237]

Corvettes instead of them until full-fledged PLO ships are made. or a detection system for enemy submarines along our maritime borders.

[knn54]

MUCH easier and cheaper to install ground-based versions of the CD, for example, the same "Caliber" .. It is smaller in size, it is easier to disguise and cover the air defense.
And the "ripple of the sea" does not "shake" ..

[Normann]

And how will they provide full coverage?

[Thrifty]

Well, yes, the Japs will die of laughter! Fifteen-day rickets with 8 calibers against their destroyers! Normal destroyers are needed, or some version of "Karakurt2M" with a displacement of up to 5000 tons, and with 32 Onyx-Zircon missiles, and not these little ones!

[Flooding]

Quote: Thrifty

Fifteen-day rickets

what autonomy should a ship of the near sea zone have?
and why "rickets"?

Quote: Thrifty

version "Karakurt2M" with a displacement of up to 5000 tons

22350 does not suit you for what reasons?

[Thrifty]

The article writes about the 22800 project, and 22350 is also not a panacea, the fleet needs destroyers with a displacement of 9000 tons, with fifty anti -arable missiles. The Northern Fleet and the Pacific Fleet require a minimum of 18 pennants.

[Flooding]

Quote: Thrifty

The article writes about the 22800 project, and 22350 is also not a panacea,

so you decided to write about 22800+ with a displacement of 5000 tons

[Normann]

You listen to him more) What is needed and what is not - and so clear, but the possibilities - this is a completely different conversation.

[Vadim237]

Well, yes, the Japs will die of laughter! If something on quiet 8 Caliber can stand YABCH - so that the Japanese in which case it will obviously not be laughing on their part. And for 48 Onyx-Zircons a contract was signed for frigates 22350M.

[Thrifty]

Vadim237-these large boats the Japanese will run faster than they have time to fire their 8 missiles, and it doesn't matter if they have a nuclear warhead, or even an annihilation one ...

[Normann]

And they will come to visit you and the chief shogun will shake your hand for the advice of the Russian Navy, otherwise they do not know what and how to build.

[Nemchinov Vl]

Quote: Vadim237

And for 48 Onyxes - Zircons signed a contract for frigates 22350M.

have mercy (!) ... There is also no final draft, but you have already signed the contract ... ? !! there to lay two (the ninth and tenth 22350, contracted for "Army-2020"), not when ... instead of them, there (from an excess of funds, apparently), they began to strengthen the Pacific Fleet 22800 ...

[Barberry25]

why are you inventing Pots again?

[Bradley]

I would like to read news about other ships for the Pacific Fleet. At least about frigates ...
But "Karakurt" will guard the base, it is understandable.

[Jacket in stock]

And how will these gunboats help in protect and defense.
Their radar is weak.
There is no GUS at all.
A blind and deaf boat, perhaps with long-range missiles.
Well, he won't be able to use these rockets on his own, external target designation is mandatory.

[Dima68]

For a strike on ports and LNG terminals, they are quite suitable.

[Jacket in stock]

Quote: Dima68

To hit the ports

And this is somehow combined with the protection of the water area?
And you can hit with Calibers from the shore, or easier, cheaper, and more reliable.

[Normann]

There is a completely different weapon to strike.

[Barberry25]

so they will work like a rocket battery ... on an external control center

[The Dragon]

Firstly, the construction of 2 ships at the Eastern shipyard was canceled, long ago and fully officially. And the condition of the hulls of the ships can be assessed on the forum on the corresponding thread. The photos are quite fresh, in '22 there is no smell at all, if at 23 they pass (the first pair) it will be just fantastic.

[Yuryi Belov]

Will strengthen? Just ridiculous. For the power it is insulting

[Fisherman]

Two Varshavyankas and a corvette from the Baltic were transferred to Vladik and after that they will be in Velyuchinsk ... The entire Kuril ridge was strengthened with bastions ... from Velyuchinsk, almost all submarines went on duty ... there are also Karakurts urgently doing in the Far East. Along the way, the next "stop" of the DB is the Pacific region.

[grassyknollgunner]

For private companies there is always money and contracts, and for the state USC from time to time. What's the secret? The invisible hand of the market?

[Barberry25]

Well, how would it be that private traders are forced to squabble over the budget, and that is a number of questions that they have nowhere to go, there are very few civil orders, otherwise they did not need the military for nothing

[Tests]

grassyknollgunner, dear, we all repeatedly-repeatedly-systematically beloved USC decides for itself: what and how the enterprises entering the corporation will do. But enterprises are the defendants in the courts. They are independent legal entities. Take the Zvezdochka CSC. The state office with the name FAS on March 16, 2021 happily reported: https://fas.gov.ru/publications/
FAS IN THE MEDIA: THE COURT DECLINED THE APPEAL OF THE CSC "ZVEZDOCHKA" TO BE INCLUDED IN THE REGISTER OF UNFAIR SUPPLIERS. Zvezdochka returned millions for the repair of Marshal Ustinov and Vladikavkaz to the budget of the RF Ministry of Defense. And, formally, the Ministry of Defense of the Russian Federation from March 2021 should not place orders for the repair, modernization, disposal and construction of ships and ships at Zvezdochka and in all of its branches. When will the Kirov completely rot at the Zvezdochka pier? What did they say about the repair of "Losharik"? There are no multipurpose nuclear submarines at the Pacific Fleet, the ones that Transshelf took along the NSR from the Pacific Fleet to Zvezdochka many years ago? And it's okay that Severnoye Machine-Building Enterprise and Zvezdochka have been making a platform for the Kamennomysskoye-Sea field for many months, naturally these works are not financed by the RF Ministry of Defense. Here is the latest news about shop 15 "Stars" from 22.11. 2021: https://portnews.ru/news/321600/
It seems that there are no more secrets in USC, and, naturally, no less than in other state corporations of the Russian Federation. Whose hands on the market place what is needed, where it is necessary, when it is needed and for how much ...

[Zomanus]

Well, at least so ... In fact, a platform for cruise missiles.

[TermNachTer]

Taking into account the fact that the range of the "shell" was increased to 40 km, the ships are quite suitable.