Military Review

Russia reacts to the proposal of the head of the RF IC to return the Soviet education system and abandon the exam

336

The head of the Investigative Committee of the Russian Federation, Alexander Bastrykin, made an unexpected statement for a high-level official. Despite the fact that the department he heads has nothing to do with the country's education system, Alexander Bastrykin spoke about the realities of the modern educational system.


Speaking at a conference on the role of law in ensuring human well-being, the chairman of the RF IC criticized the education system and called for the return of its Soviet version. According to Bastrykin, the Soviet education system was the best in the world.

Bastrykin:

This has always been recognized by everyone.

According to the chairman of the RF IC, it is necessary to send legislative proposals for the revival of the Soviet educational system and for the abolition of the Unified State Exam.

According to Alexander Bastrykin, the Unified State Exam is "a torture for modern youth."

These statements by Bastrykin drew approval from some segments of the population and experts in Russia and criticism from others. In particular, Rosobrnadzor believes that the Unified State Exam has long proven the effectiveness of the selection of young people for study in higher educational institutions. Critics of Bastrykin's initiative say that today it is already pointless to talk about the revival of the Soviet education system, since over the years of reforms it has been completely dismantled. The state itself did everything for the transition to the Western educational option, although many countries of the world, including the countries of Southeast Asia, took the Soviet experience as a basis and successfully implemented it since the early 2000s.

Critics of Bastrykin's idea say that the modern education system "is no worse than the Soviet one, since it allows revealing the numerous talents of students." An example is the result of schoolchildren of the Russian Federation at the Olympiad in astronomy. The Russian team has won a record 10 awards, including 8 gold. One of the Russian schoolchildren, Maxim Permyakov from the Republic of Mordovia, became the absolute winner of the astronomy Olympiad, which this year was held remotely in the capital of Colombia, the city of Bogota.

Supporters of the initiative of Alexander Bastrykin are in favor of schools abandoning "coaching students to take the Unified State Exam" and returning to a productive, non-mechanical, educational system.
336 comments
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  1. Zhan
    Zhan 23 November 2021 15: 05
    +136
    Well, of course, they started to panic. Young snoopers come, but there is zero knowledge. A solid pattern of the Unified State Exam, and the Soviet school, gave a harmonious all-round education, taught to work with literature, think, reason. And the generation of googliks and cramps has pulled up.
    1. aleksejkabanets
      aleksejkabanets 23 November 2021 15: 11
      .
      Quote: Zhan
      and the Soviet school, gave a harmonious all-round education, taught to work with literature, think, reason.

      The Soviet school is inconceivable without a socialist economic system. Is Bastrykin talking about changing the formation? Of course not. And therefore all this is a senseless shaking of the air. At best, they can only raise "literate consumers", not creators.
      1. Cat Alexandrovich
        Cat Alexandrovich 23 November 2021 15: 16
        +40
        We live under capitalism, that's the corresponding system. Our bourgeoisie does not need a socialist system. So alas ..
        1. aleks neym_2
          aleks neym_2 23 November 2021 16: 20
          +66
          At the Soviet School, they taught how to think from the first grade! Arithmetic: a two-question problem - ask the correct question, write it right, give an exact answer ... and get a "4" for "calligraphy" ... here's a school! Then it went: 2 + 2 and there and then the answer, no questions asked. Next Generation: FILL THE CELLS! And what will happen next? Young people asks for the time, I show a wristwatch, an arrow: "grandfather, but in our opinion, how much will it be?" The answer was simple - scroll the computer in your head, can you share a day for 24 hours without a computer? Oh, God forbid to live ...............
          1. frolishe
            frolishe 23 November 2021 20: 57
            +21
            There is a repeat Two sons, no matter how much they talked to them, still do not really understand the analogue clock, and this is the eldest, after the army has become at least a little, and the younger, how much I don’t fight with him, can’t understand in any way, or maybe he doesn’t want to? Twenty minutes to five, it's a mystery to him, but 16:40 is understandable.
            At school we even passed the clock, in the lesson the teacher asked how much time was on the arrows. And now ... Soon they will probably stop writing, everyone will be typing on the computer recourse
            1. aleks neym_2
              aleks neym_2 23 November 2021 21: 17
              +11
              Well, you and the old stump - where are you to the youngsters: they will soon feed you 3D food, and me too - but pickle from the cellar, while I'm alive, and you are the same, they take it for granted ... the goat will remember how before the cart went, but it will be too late ... (with humor, no offense, good?)
              1. Shurik70
                Shurik70 23 November 2021 21: 29
                +13
                In the USSR, the school taught to think
                The Unified State Exam makes children TEETH
                On the other hand, the USE gives a relatively impartial assessment of knowledge.
                In my opinion, the educational system is better than the Soviet one.
                But passing exams is better in the USE format, but significantly modified. There should be much more probable questions to make it easier to learn the textbook than to memorize all the tickets.
                1. aleks neym_2
                  aleks neym_2 23 November 2021 22: 41
                  +9
                  You got me thinking - which is better? Department. The teacher draws a large circle on the blackboard, a small one inside. The board is the World of Knowledge, the Big Circle is I know, the Small is what you know. My task is to make your circle of KNOWLEDGE MORE THAN MY! The university does not add intelligence - it expands the AREA of YOUR KRUGOZOR! For which I am very grateful to him. I had to serve in various SKoToBases (we so fondly, mind you, fondly called the SpetsialKonstrTechnoBuro), where we had to deal with the solution of various programs ... and now I had to explain to some civilians why the wheel was knocking - because, PI R square, so it knocks ! (a little humorous, do not judge, thank you)
                2. Santa Fe
                  Santa Fe 24 November 2021 09: 29
                  .
                  In the USSR, the school taught to think

                  Therefore, half of the country took the money to MMM and charged the banks from the TV with Chumak
                  laughing
                  1. Qas
                    Qas 24 November 2021 14: 47
                    +6
                    Don't equate the spiritual with the material. They studied spiritual things at school, and Chumak offered material things: health for doing nothing, and so on. It was from these Chumaks that the decomposition of our society began.
                  2. JIIOTbIu
                    JIIOTbIu 24 November 2021 23: 21
                    +2
                    The Soviet people believed in the printed word and the government was thrown by both the government and the press ...
                  3. keeper03
                    keeper03 25 November 2021 12: 46
                    0
                    Therefore, we were the first to fly into space! fool
                  4. Ady66
                    Ady66 25 November 2021 13: 42
                    0
                    They knew how to think, they had no experience of life in capitalism.
                  5. maratkoRuEkb
                    maratkoRuEkb 29 November 2021 09: 49
                    0
                    cool)) but educated Soviet people believed in such obscurantism))
              2. Shaman
                Shaman 24 November 2021 14: 33
                +3
                They (young) even have electronic cigarettes - this is what is getting closer and closer
                to an artificial tree and an inflatable woman?
            2. tatarin1972
              tatarin1972 24 November 2021 08: 24
              +6
              You would also say - three-fourths of the fifth, your son's mind would go beyond reason.
              1. Dmitry Potapov
                Dmitry Potapov 24 November 2021 17: 07
                +3
                And if you still show the clock, where are the dashes instead of numbers?
                1. tatarin1972
                  tatarin1972 24 November 2021 17: 46
                  +1
                  Or a naval chronometer.
            3. Intruder
              Intruder 24 November 2021 13: 51
              +6
              We even passed the clock at school, in the lesson the teacher asked how much time was on the arrows
              Even the very concept of a dial passed, but times have changed since those times, and even then, I liked indicators with "numbers" more, such as these:

              Few had, and they looked great on the hand! good
              1. vadimtt
                vadimtt 25 November 2021 09: 38
                +1
                I remember this watch - as a schoolboy I went to the store and licked my lips on them bully
                In some of the versions, it seems that there was even a radioisotope battery, well, or there were such myths hi
                1. Intruder
                  Intruder 25 November 2021 10: 45
                  +4
                  I remember this watch - as a schoolboy I went to the store and licked my lips on them
                  Their older brother asked me, and then, in the senior grades of school and college, he wore these, almost unkillable and very functional, for that time:

                  And this, my first PDA, is a great hardcore machine:
            4. boris epstein
              boris epstein 24 November 2021 18: 34
              +3
              Well, suppose in the Army, the Navy, aviation and railway transport, this is the only way to determine the time: zero six twenty three, for example, because everything is documented there, but you cannot write in a magazine at twenty five (morning or evening?).
              1. Intruder
                Intruder 25 November 2021 10: 36
                +1
                Because everything is documented there, but you can't write in a magazine at twenty to five (in the morning or in the evening?).
                Exactly, but you can write in the first half of the second hour in the afternoon and cry mournfully, looking at the next step of technological progress in all "well, not very smart" !?
                1. boris epstein
                  boris epstein 25 November 2021 17: 41
                  +1
                  Yeah, I'll see how many hours a signalman, a dispatcher of a railway or airport, a captain or navigator of a ship, an investigator, a scientist or a laboratory assistant will be fired, or how many days an officer will receive a "lip" for such an entry.
                  Such work leaves an imprint on behavior in everyday life.
                  In addition, there are also national differences in relation to accuracy. Germans, Americans, British also do not take liberties with time. In general, accuracy is the courtesy of kings.
                  1. Intruder
                    Intruder 26 November 2021 12: 27
                    +2
                    the Americans, the British, too, do not take liberties with time.
                    That's right! good
                    Such work leaves an imprint on behavior in everyday life.
                    Until now, already as the 7th year with my wife, we argue (here, even some comrades know a little on the topic ...), about accuracy and time, everything is fighting with my primordially braced "maybe"! drinks
          2. Archon
            Archon 24 November 2021 15: 54
            +2
            It is more terrible when they come up to you with a new iPhone in their hands and ask how to get somewhere. And this despite the fact that there are excellent navigators indicating the entrance to the building and the floor where the desired one is located.
      2. Zhan
        Zhan 23 November 2021 15: 18
        +62
        Is Bastrykin talking about changing the formation? Of course not. And therefore all this is a senseless shaking of the air.

        You know what surprises me most of all today is our inert attitude and indifference in most cases. Comrades officers, maybe we will support Bastrykin after all, he’s right!
        1. alexmach
          alexmach 23 November 2021 15: 29
          -9
          he's right!

          He just found a cheap PR method. "Let everything be good, not bad" is what he suggests. Am I against everything being good? no, not against it, that's just the specifics in his proposal shish and a little, without this specifics, his proposal is about nothing at all.
          1. Nikolay1987
            Nikolay1987 23 November 2021 16: 42
            -9
            He just found a cheap PR way

            More like a deathbed repentance.
          2. Nikolay1987
            Nikolay1987 23 November 2021 17: 06
            +28
            Although, he has nothing to do with the current education system, so he has nothing to repent of. Most likely, he sees or reports to him from the field, about degrading personnel. He sees a threat to his performance and the ministry as a whole, which is under his jurisdiction.
          3. Krasnoyarsk
            Krasnoyarsk 24 November 2021 18: 31
            +2
            Quote: alexmach
            He just found a cheap PR method.

            This is how good offers are chatted.
            1. alexmach
              alexmach 24 November 2021 19: 05
              +1
              This is how good offers are chatted.

              There is no good proposal in there. For all good and against all bad, this is not a good offer, but demagoguery.
              1. Krasnoyarsk
                Krasnoyarsk 24 November 2021 19: 11
                +1

                Quote: alexmach

                There is no good proposal in there. For all good and against all bad, this is not a good offer, but demagoguery.

                Then give us your good proposal, or a bad one, as you like. But at least give something, if someone else does not like it.
                1. alexmach
                  alexmach 24 November 2021 19: 34
                  +4
                  A strange approach - to throw in utter stupidity and then say "well, don't like it - give your suggestions."

                  My suggestion is to approach the problem in a systematic way. And before putting forward proposals (of incredible scale and incredible stupidity (c)), for a start, it would be good to voice the goals and criteria for achieving goals. What do we want to achieve then?

                  Return the Soviet education system? A. I. Fursov answered this topic perfectly - impossible. To do this, it would be necessary to return the already dead Soviet teachers, and in addition to them the Soviet students, and for this the USSR itself. This will not happen because it is not possible to return to the past.

                  Suggestions, for heaven's sake
                  1. describe the shortcomings of the existing education system. What is wrong with it and why is it bad (I don’t like that it’s not like in the USSR, this is not an argument at all)
                  2. Describe how the education should work with these problems solved and by what criteria this achievement can be assessed
                  3. to develop measures how to come to the desired state
                  4. And drive to hell all demagogues doing such speculative stuffing as this Borisov. This level of thinking is simply unacceptable for a senior government official.
                  1. Krasnoyarsk
                    Krasnoyarsk 25 November 2021 00: 13
                    -2
                    Quote: alexmach

                    And before how to put forward proposals (of incredible scale and incredible stupidity (s))

                    This is your personal, subjective assessment.
                    Quote: alexmach

                    Return the Soviet education system? A. I. Fursov answered this topic perfectly - impossible.

                    Fursov - the vicar of God on earth? Indisputable authority?
                    Quote: alexmach
                    to return already dead Soviet teachers, and in addition to them Soviet students, and for this the USSR itself.

                    It is impossible to imagine more stupid conclusions. fool
                    I especially liked point 4. Borisov is a demagogue, but who he is, I still do not understand. Although, speaking of the highest state. official, you are probably hinting at Bastrykin. If so, I dare say, he did not reach such heights for his pretty eyes, as I believe. You have not been able to reach such heights.
                    Even though you are not a demagogue. hi
                    1. alexmach
                      alexmach 25 November 2021 00: 38
                      +1
                      This is your personal, subjective assessment.

                      Like most value judgments in articles and comments.
                      Fursov - the vicar of God on earth? Indisputable authority?

                      He is a very intelligent, erudite and balanced person who has something to do with the education system, with whose position on this particular issue I 100% agree. Again a value judgment.
                      It is impossible to imagine more stupid conclusions. fool

                      Here the hand reached for the minus.
                      If so, I dare say, he did not reach such heights for beautiful eyes, as I believe

                      But not for success in education, as I suppose :)
                      In general, if an official says or does something stupid, he should be pointed out to this nonsense and criticized for him. If only to endlessly admire what heights he has reached at these heights, he will simply completely break away from reality and in the end will begin to create absolutely crazy things. Did you read a fairy tale about the naked king as a child? Here it is.
                      1. Krasnoyarsk
                        Krasnoyarsk 25 November 2021 09: 43
                        -1
                        Quote: alexmach
                        but only endlessly admire the heights he reached

                        You understand perfectly well, although you pretend not to understand that it is not about ecstasy at all. A person of this level expressed his opinion. And, I suppose, one should listen to it, discuss it, and not reject it, motivating it with the opinion of another, by the way, a former official. We know what results Fursenko achieved - the level of intelligence of school graduates, in comparison with the Soviet years, fell below the plinth. Therefore, it is at least silly to refer to his opinion, if you do not strive to lower this level among graduates even lower.
                        Quote: alexmach
                        In general, if an official says or does something stupid,

                        This is your value judgment, and who said that you are right?
                      2. alexmach
                        alexmach 25 November 2021 11: 08
                        0
                        And, I suppose, it should be listened to, discussed, and not rejected

                        Discuss this, including criticizing. And since the opinion is quite banal and unfounded (again, my value judgment), then it only remains to criticize it.
                        and not to reject, motivating with the opinion of another, by the way already former, official. We know what results Fursenko achieved

                        I did not mean any Fursenko, or any other former official. I referred to a well-known publicist.
                        the level of intelligence among school leavers, in comparison with the Soviet years

                        Here, by the way, I want to note that this is also your value judgment, or maybe you can support it with facts?
                      3. Krasnoyarsk
                        Krasnoyarsk 25 November 2021 14: 24
                        -1
                        Quote: alexmach

                        Here, by the way, I want to note that this is also your value judgment, or maybe you can support it with facts?

                        If a person does not see the obvious, then even an ophthalmologist is powerless.
        2. aleksejkabanets
          aleksejkabanets 23 November 2021 15: 34
          +12
          Quote: Zhan
          You know what surprises me most of all today is our inert attitude and indifference in most cases. Comrades officers, maybe we will support Bastrykin after all, he’s right!

          When the foundation cracks, re-pasting the wallpaper will not help.
        3. Hagen
          Hagen 23 November 2021 16: 20
          .
          Quote: Zhan
          Comrades officers, maybe we will support Bastrykin after all, he’s right!

          When the head of the Investigative Committee proves his case with the phrase "Bastrykin (about the Soviet education system as the best in the world): Everyone has always recognized this." - it means he has no expert judgment. In general, an indication that "something is recognized by everyone and always ..." is the first sign of an attempt to manipulate public opinion. This is stated in any textbook on propaganda and counter-propaganda in plain text.
          Quote: Zhan
          Young snoopers come, but there is zero knowledge.

          Sledakov, in fact, is not trained in schools, but in universities. They will begin to kick out law schools for academic failure, and the quality of graduates will appear. Only universities will be against it, because most of the ballast, especially humanitarian ones, are paid. And the university does not want to lose them. Therefore, the connection between the zero knowledge of graduates (young traders) and the Unified State Exam is, at least, controversial. Bastrykin blasted stupidity, and not in his own clearing. Or maybe with intent, which he will not say aloud ... Are the affairs of the undercover?
          1. crambol
            crambol 23 November 2021 18: 25
            +24
            Sledakov, in fact, is not trained in schools, but in universities. They will begin to kick out law schools for academic failure, and the quality of graduates will appear.


            People are prepared for life from the day they are born. Sledakov including. We have raised thinking people, and now an illiterate consumerism with an arrogant havalnik. And this, by the way, is not our idea. It was presented to us from the West!
            1. Hagen
              Hagen 23 November 2021 18: 48
              .
              Quote: crambol
              We have raised thinking people, and now an illiterate consumerism with an arrogant havalnik. And this, by the way, is not our idea. It was presented to us from the West!

              Fine!!! "We were raised ..." - that is, someone raised, but not us. And now - something obscene, but "presented from the West." Well, that is, again, not us. And where is our participation in the process of educating those who, as you say, with the "arrogant havalnik"? Did you "beat" them, expecting that this monotonous and painstaking work will be done for you? Well, get it .... My wife and I raised two. Both - passed the exam, graduated with gold. One is already a Ph.D., he is quite packed with work and is satisfied with his working life. The other, too, is on a budget at a renowned university .... Considering how my children entered universities, it would be a sin for me to complain about the Unified State Exam. The Unified State Exam is just a way of more or less impersonal verification of the knowledge gained over 11 years. If a child does not have enough of this knowledge in his head, no means of certification will help him become more educated. Therefore, it is mainly idle parents and students who are not very lucky with their parents who complain about the exam.
              1. poquello
                poquello 23 November 2021 20: 19
                +13
                Quote: Hagen
                My wife and I raised two. Both - passed the exam, graduated with gold. One is already a Ph.D., quite packed with work

                I'm glad for you, it is necessary to leave the current system with the exam for geniuses and their parents, IMHO, the current school course, in comparison, will overwhelm unnecessary knowledge that may be useful with a profile choice, but not for the general average. As a person slightly proficient in programming, I am completely out of the subject of "informatics", where solid words like "conjunction and disjunction" instead of logical multiplication and addition, sorry IMHO "such hockey" does not make programmers. Huge volumes of unnecessary knowledge are simply explained by the fact that loot wins rationality, the larger the structure, the more funding, the current system makes money stupidly. The old (Soviet) system had extra ideological ballast, but in terms of quantity, this ballast cannot be compared with the crap that schoolchildren are stuffed with now.
                1. Hagen
                  Hagen 23 November 2021 20: 28
                  -4
                  Quote: poquello
                  happy for you

                  Don't be happy for me. I can handle it myself. I say this to the fact that it is not the exam that makes children stupid. And not even the education system with all its troubles and imperfections. It is the family that makes children stupid. But admitting it hurts and many do not want to. Therefore, these many are diligently looking for the reason that children do not live up to their hopes, on the side - in ministries, the Unified State Exam, schools, etc. Probably looking in the mirror is insulting, annoying and painful ...
                  1. poquello
                    poquello 23 November 2021 20: 37
                    +5
                    Quote: Hagen
                    Don't be happy for me. I can handle it myself

                    egoist
                    Quote: Hagen
                    It is the family that makes children stupid.

                    no, the current education system fills the glass to the top, it is quite difficult to invest anything extra
                    Quote: Hagen
                    Therefore, these many are diligently looking for the reason that children do not live up to their hopes, on the side - in ministries, the Unified State Exam, schools, etc. Probably looking in the mirror is insulting, annoying and painful ...

                    they do what they are looking for, it is insulting, annoying, it hurts to have sex with this school program
                    1. Hagen
                      Hagen 23 November 2021 22: 32
                      +1
                      Quote: poquello
                      no, the current education system fills the glass to the top, it is quite difficult to invest anything extra

                      The main excuse is when you don't want to strain. I'm not a theorist. I saw this program, I myself organized the "correction" in a single child. Got something that doesn't make me sad. And not with very high additional costs.
                      Quote: poquello
                      they do what they are looking for, it is insulting, annoying, it hurts to have sex with this school program

                      Here are the consequences of this masturbation, instead of productive activity, he makes five mistakes in the word "mom"
                      1. poquello
                        poquello 23 November 2021 23: 08
                        +2
                        Quote: Hagen
                        Quote: poquello
                        no, the current education system fills the glass to the top, it is quite difficult to invest anything extra

                        The main excuse is when you don't want to strain. I'm not a theorist. I saw this program, I myself organized the "correction" in a single child. Got something that doesn't make me sad. And not with very high additional costs.

                        and what? smile and wave? can remove the crap from the program and strengthen the basics?
                      2. Hagen
                        Hagen 24 November 2021 06: 10
                        0
                        Quote: poquello
                        and what? smile and wave? can remove the crap from the program and strengthen the basics?

                        There are things that we can only discuss, demonstrating only eloquence, and there are those that we can productively influence. Can you remove something from the program? I can not. Therefore, I was not fond of this topic. Whoever likes to smile and wave better - that of success ... I do not force anyone to anything. I share my personal ... You can do as you like, more conveniently, more useful.
                      3. RVAPatriot
                        RVAPatriot 24 November 2021 21: 30
                        +2
                        All quotes are similar to the message "You, and I'm a good fellow ...."
                      4. Hagen
                        Hagen 25 November 2021 06: 53
                        0
                        Quote: RVAPatriot
                        All quotes are similar to the message "You, and I'm a good fellow ...."

                        Well done, not well done, but fulfilled the task set for himself and the children. It's just that I am "touched" by the desire of some colleagues to blame their inaction on the Unified State Exam, the school, the state, some officials, an incomprehensible school program, in a word, at all, except for their own passive expectation of "a tree with gold ducats instead of leaves." The world is not perfect, and it will never be perfect. And if their own parents are children "on the side", then to all other instances they are "on the side" in the square. And yes, maybe I'm selfish. But I am primarily concerned about my children, not "world peace." You need to set yourself real tasks, not battles with windmills. And you need to make an effort to yourself to correspond to the ideal to which you want to bring your children. If dad can afford to come home "on his eyebrows," then it will be very difficult to raise a teetotaler out of his son.
                      5. poquello
                        poquello 25 November 2021 17: 43
                        0
                        Quote: Hagen
                        If dad can afford to come home "on his eyebrows," then it will be very difficult to raise a teetotaler out of his son.

                        from a shame what will happen to your narcissism if the kids get drunk?
                      6. Hagen
                        Hagen 25 November 2021 17: 47
                        0
                        Quote: poquello
                        from a shame what will happen to your narcissism if the kids get drunk?

                        Would you feel better? lol Worry about yourself. I'll sort it out with my questions somehow ...
                      7. poquello
                        poquello 25 November 2021 17: 48
                        0
                        Quote: Hagen
                        Quote: poquello
                        from a shame what will happen to your narcissism if the kids get drunk?

                        Would you feel better? lol

                        I am violet, and you are pleased with other people's failures
                      8. Hagen
                        Hagen 25 November 2021 17: 56
                        0
                        Quote: poquello
                        I'm violet

                        If it's violet, why are you flooding?
                      9. poquello
                        poquello 25 November 2021 18: 04
                        +2
                        Quote: Hagen
                        Quote: poquello
                        I'm violet

                        If it's violet, why are you flooding?

                        yes so, support the conversation, live on with the first sin of Satan
                      10. poquello
                        poquello 23 November 2021 23: 08
                        0
                        Quote: Hagen
                        Quote: poquello
                        no, the current education system fills the glass to the top, it is quite difficult to invest anything extra

                        The main excuse is when you don't want to strain. I'm not a theorist. I saw this program, I myself organized the "correction" in a single child. Got something that doesn't make me sad. And not with very high additional costs.

                        and what? smile and wave? can remove the crap from the program and strengthen the basics?
                  2. Reserve buildbat
                    Reserve buildbat 23 November 2021 21: 06
                    +4
                    And how can parents influence their children, if now a young idiot can complain that they did not buy an iPhone for him, after which the parents will be deprived of their rights? If parents, in principle, are now deprived of the opportunity to raise children? Upbringing is impossible without a certain amount of violence, otherwise a piece grows, I will not say what, that smells very bad.
                    1. Hagen
                      Hagen 23 November 2021 22: 45
                      +2
                      Quote: Stroibat stock
                      And how can parents influence their children, if now a young idiot can complain that they did not buy an iPhone for him, after which the parents will be deprived of their rights?

                      It is not necessary to influence him, but to love. And see his perspective. And to understand that due to his age he can not imagine some things that are obvious to us. Parents should create a calm, bright, joyful childhood for him and instruct him in an accessible language, special for each age. And by your example, show your attitude to life, neighbors, iPhones, etc. It's not all that difficult. Violence is needed when your pedagogical goals do not align with your own behavior. (Usually)
                      1. poquello
                        poquello 24 November 2021 01: 29
                        +2
                        Quote: Hagen
                        Quote: Stroibat stock
                        And how can parents influence their children, if now a young idiot can complain that they did not buy an iPhone for him, after which the parents will be deprived of their rights?

                        It is not necessary to influence him, but to love. And see his perspective. And to understand that due to his age he can not imagine some things that are obvious to us. Parents should create a calm, bright, joyful childhood for him and instruct him in an accessible language, special for each age. And by your example, show your attitude to life, neighbors, iPhones, etc. It's not all that difficult. Violence is needed when your pedagogical goals do not align with your own behavior. (Usually)

                        oklmn! straight on Amonashvili
                      2. Hagen
                        Hagen 24 November 2021 06: 04
                        +1
                        Quote: poquello
                        oklmn! straight on Amonashvili

                        Sometimes it's not a sin to open a smart book. And so everything is not very difficult. And most importantly - efficiently. None of the children fainted from the word "exam".
                      3. RVAPatriot
                        RVAPatriot 24 November 2021 21: 33
                        +3
                        You did not work at school, you can see how the children behave ... And how the parents react to accusations, as if my child could not do that ... although there are photos and videos ... Everyone has the best, but the best golden parents, in front of whom their children are good, and on the side they are completely different ...
                      4. Hagen
                        Hagen 25 November 2021 06: 40
                        0
                        Quote: RVAPatriot
                        You did not work at school, you can see how the children behave ...

                        Didn't work at school. But he worked in the Commission on N \\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\ formed I will note that children are creatures, as a rule, intelligent. They build their behavior in accordance with the current situation. And if, as one colleague here claims, violence is applied to a child, then at the point of violence he will behave somewhat differently than in those where direct violence is not expected. Therefore, the children of parents who are unable to communicate with their children without whipping and "taking out the brain", as a rule, behave in a society of their own kind in a way that parents cannot imagine. There is no "higher mathematics" here. For all their childhood I didn’t touch my own people. We found a common language in an acceptable tone. Therefore, I knew both the teaching staff and the friends of my children. And he could predict with a high degree of probability where and in what place they "hang" and what consequences this could lead to. Frankly, this was not always what I would like, and impulsive desires to take something "flexible" into my hands were present. But ... it's always harder to build a broken relationship. In short, how children behave in an uncontrolled environment depends on their parents by 90%.
            2. Archon
              Archon 24 November 2021 16: 06
              +1
              If you raised so well, then why did everything fall apart so rapidly in the 90s? After all, these were the very people with a Soviet education, upbringing, pioneers, the Komsomol, and so on. And now there are enough thinking people. Maybe there are a little less of them, maybe they do not have such detailed knowledge, but most importantly, they have the ability to learn and search for information, analyze and draw conclusions. And consumerism is no longer as illiterate as when people threw themselves on their jeans like savages. Modern man is looking for profitable and necessary things, and does not take everything. Of course, if there is a lot of money, then legibility is less, but the average person prefers inexpensive, durable, convenient, practical, functional and most often does not fall for the tricks of marketers.
          2. Alf
            Alf 23 November 2021 19: 08
            +8
            Quote: Hagen
            Undercover affairs?

            No. It's just that "young professionals" who write with mistakes, confuse Austria with Australia and do not know who fought with whom in WWII and WW2, flocked to his office.
            1. Hagen
              Hagen 23 November 2021 19: 36
              -2
              Quote: Alf
              No. It's just that "young professionals" who write with mistakes, confuse Austria with Australia and do not know who fought with whom in WWII and WW2, flocked to his office.

              Did he personally tell you that? Are these not the "young professionals" whom his wife (Rector of the RPA Ministry of Justice) released after the entire course of study? But he is a professor, he himself read lectures at the university. Who is he for the USE? For those who for the money they have unlearned and somehow graduated? If they write with mistakes, then how were they issued diplomas? For financial assistance to the university and its inhabitants? His statement looks "rotten" ....
              1. Alf
                Alf 23 November 2021 19: 40
                +2
                Quote: Hagen
                Did he personally tell you that?

                Of course no. The only question is, why would he say that?
                Quote: Hagen
                If they write with errors, then how were they issued diplomas? For financial assistance to the university and its inhabitants?

                I was in the "holy" 90s, when the plant worked for three days, and the salary was not paid for 5 months, so as not to discard the skates, I shuttled to the capital. So at every metro station there was no overcrowding from good fellows with plaques - Diploma of higher education.
                1. Hagen
                  Hagen 23 November 2021 19: 46
                  +1
                  Quote: Alf
                  So at every metro station there was no overcrowding from good fellows with plaques - Diploma of higher education.

                  Let me tell you a secret, today these diploma buyers are a tidbit for a "landing plan". I know several people from our city administration and the local GOVD (already dismissed), against whom criminal cases were initiated for presenting a fake diploma and earning income through fraud. Today is not the 90s. Today such people are caught and attracted (especially in the state and municipal service).
                  1. Alf
                    Alf 23 November 2021 19: 55
                    +6
                    Quote: Hagen
                    in relation to whom criminal cases were initiated for presenting a forged diploma and receiving income by means of fraud.

                    Swap the reasons for boarding. They didn’t share, so they planted them, but in order to hook them up and start a business, they clung to the purchased diploma. Would share and there would be more peace and quiet ..
                    Minister of CULTURE ...
                    1. Hagen
                      Hagen 23 November 2021 20: 18
                      -3
                      Quote: Alf
                      They didn’t share, so they planted them, but in order to hook them up and start a business, they clung to the purchased diploma. Would share and there would be more peace and quiet ..

                      These are your conjectures, born on the basis of your general attitude towards others. Like, I am the most honest, patriotic and so on, and all the rest, especially in "shoulder straps", only "take and share." Not knowing the case absolutely (I didn’t give the essence of them and their names), you nevertheless immediately publicly announced your “authoritative” opinion. Do you want to appear the wisest of the wisest? What for? Do you want to assert yourself? Nobody wants to listen at home? Yes, trouble ...
                      1. Alf
                        Alf 23 November 2021 20: 23
                        +4
                        Quote: Hagen
                        Quote: Alf
                        They didn’t share, so they planted them, but in order to hook them up and start a business, they clung to the purchased diploma. Would share and there would be more peace and quiet ..

                        These are your conjectures, born on the basis of your general attitude towards others. Like, I am the most honest, patriotic and so on, and all the rest, especially in "shoulder straps", only "take and share." Not knowing the case absolutely (I didn’t give the essence of them and their names), you nevertheless immediately publicly announced your “authoritative” opinion. Do you want to appear the wisest of the wisest? What for? Do you want to assert yourself? Nobody wants to listen at home? Yes, trouble ...

                        Clearly, there is nothing to argue, a verbal ... fog a la shpakovsky began.
                      2. Hagen
                        Hagen 23 November 2021 20: 32
                        -4
                        Quote: Alf
                        Clearly, there is nothing to object

                        To object? What? Have you expressed any meaningful idea? It's funny to read you, she-she ...
                    2. Dart
                      Dart 23 November 2021 22: 07
                      0
                      OmeriKi's Voice - Minister of Culture

                      Right here ...
        4. unaha
          unaha 24 November 2021 12: 18
          0
          Quote: Zhan
          we will support Bastrykin, he is right

          Or lobbying for the position of those who do not like the fact that too many provincials enter the capital's universities?
        5. Intruder
          Intruder 24 November 2021 13: 53
          +1
          Quote: Zhan
          ... Comrades officers, maybe we will support Bastrykin after all, he’s right!

          Of course we’re right, well, we’ll support it, but to no avail, Bastrykin has problems with the USE generation in his department, we understand .., but then what, he’s clearly closer to the most "top" comrades than all of us, and even en masse with support !?
      3. alexmach
        alexmach 23 November 2021 15: 27
        +3
        And so all this senseless shaking of air

        Absolutely agree. Even without talking about changing the formation, without specific proposals on how to finish off what would
        schools ... and returned to a productive, non-mechanical, learning system.

        all the talk about canceling the exam is empty shaking of the air. It is not enough to just take and cancel it, we need comprehensive measures to improve the quality of education, which no one is proposing.
      4. AUL
        AUL 23 November 2021 18: 35
        +3
        Quote: aleksejkabanets
        The Soviet school is inconceivable without a socialist economic system.

        It is said with authority, but not convincingly. Can you substantiate this thesis?
        1. aleksejkabanets
          aleksejkabanets 23 November 2021 20: 36
          +6
          Quote: AUL
          It is said with authority, but not convincingly. Can you substantiate this thesis?

          It’s surprising to me, of course, that you need to substantiate the thesis that the Soviet school was what it was, because its purpose was to train specialists for the Soviet (socialist) economic system. But if you please. Have you read Sholokhov's story "The Shepherd"? Why did those young people, despite hunger and other difficulties, want to learn? My grandmother, born in 1905, finished 4 classes of the parish school before the revolution, she is from peasants. After the revolution, she graduated from accounting courses and already in the 30s worked as a chief accountant in the mines. For the people, study was a "social ladder", it was an honor to study. The state in every possible way encouraged those who studied. Why did it do this? Why invest so hugely in education? But because the Soviet state followed the path of development, it developed its industry and agriculture. The young Soviet state, like air, needed competent, specialists and managers in all areas. All this allowed the USSR to resist the united power of all of Europe in the Second World War and to recover in a short time after the war.
          When I came from the army, there were probably more than 500 places in my specialty in a city with a population of two hundred thousand, specialists and highly qualified workers were required everywhere. Today? Why spend such huge sums on the education of a citizen, if the most demanded professions today are a salesman, a security guard, a driver? Just compare the industry of the USSR and the Russian Federation, and then answer yourself, does the Russian Federation need such a number of educated unemployed?
          And Bastrykin, apparently, is simply promoting himself in this way before flying to some new position.
          1. AUL
            AUL 23 November 2021 20: 49
            +1
            You have now written a lot of correct words, but which do not answer the specific question I posed: Why is the Soviet education system (the content of training courses (training programs) textbooks, problem books, methodologies, the system of conducting classes) not applicable in the modern Russian Federation?
            You, of course, have written a lot of interesting things from the history of the USSR and the Russian Federation, but not related to the issue under consideration. This technique is called demagoguery.
            1. aleksejkabanets
              aleksejkabanets 23 November 2021 21: 16
              -1
              Quote: AUL
              Why is the Soviet education system (the content of training courses (training programs) textbooks, problem books, methodologies, the system of conducting classes) not applicable in the modern Russian Federation?

              I answered.
              Quote: aleksejkabanets
              Does the Russian Federation need so many educated unemployed?

              And regarding textbooks, you will revise the textbooks, pre-reform, which were up to the 70s, and then tell them yourself. They are in the public domain on the Stalin Primer Project. I teach my children according to them, they have a lot of "why".)))) Regarding the methodic books, hours, etc., so the number of hours in mathematics, for example, became 2 times less. I wrote
              Quote: aleksejkabanets
              Why spend such huge sums of money on the education of a citizen, if the most demanded professions today are a salesman, a security guard, a driver?

              We must teach the law of God, conduct lessons in courage, traffic safety, etc. The state does not follow the path of development; it does not need so many specialists. To cook for overseas? He needs a stupid obedient population that would gladly substitute his forehead for some kind of kurokod.
              1. AUL
                AUL 23 November 2021 21: 38
                +2
                You know, I expected a lot from your answer, but, nevertheless, it shocked me!
                Does the Russian Federation need so many educated unemployed?
                Why spend such huge sums of money on the education of a citizen, if the most demanded professions today are a salesman, a security guard, a driver?

                It’s like listening to Dr. Goebbels’s speech!
                It is enough for a Russian to be able to sign where they will show, and to count to eight! negative

                And regarding textbooks, you will revise the textbooks, pre-reform, which were up to the 70s, and then tell them yourself.
                And what should I reconsider, I learned from them. He finished 11 classes (by the way, with a physics and mathematics bias) in 66, and then the physics and mathematics faculty of the pedagogical institute. So I know what I'm talking about.
                On the project "Stalin's Primer" they (textbooks) are in the public domain. I use them to teach my children, a lot of "why" they appear.
                Why are you teaching them? After all, according to your statement, it is absolutely useless?
                1. aleksejkabanets
                  aleksejkabanets 23 November 2021 22: 04
                  +1
                  Quote: AUL
                  And what should I reconsider, I learned from them. He finished 11 classes (by the way, with a physics and mathematics bias) in 66, and then the physics and mathematics faculty of the pedagogical institute. So I know what I'm talking about.

                  Then why are you asking stupid questions? Revise the Pchelko-Polyak arithmetic (problems about collective farms, Komsomol members, etc.), for example, or "Native speech".
                  Quote: AUL
                  It’s like listening to Dr. Goebbels’s speech!
                  It is enough for a Russian to be able to sign where they will show, and to count to eight!

                  So these are not questions for me, this is the policy of the state, I do not like it, to put it mildly, this is the path of degradation and further disintegration. Bismarck also said about the war with Frania (in my opinion) that it was won by a school teacher. Gref, for example, listen, the past minister of education spoke about "literate consumers" and so on.
                  Quote: AUL
                  Why are you teaching them? After all, according to your statement, it is absolutely useless?

                  Apparently your attention dulled towards evening, it became absent-minded, re-read the comment again. I teach my children this way because the FSES program is full of guano. And if this state does not need specialists, then there will be another state that needs educated people.
                  1. AUL
                    AUL 23 November 2021 22: 13
                    -3
                    It is not interesting to talk to you - you constantly contradict yourself.
                    Demagoguery is a slightly different concept.
                    No, no, that is. Then - goodbye!
                2. Intruder
                  Intruder 24 November 2021 14: 09
                  0
                  It is enough for a Russian to be able to sign where they will show, and to count to eight!
                  Why, voice biometrics is already a practice, from next year they will again try to maintain national electronic passports, SNILS has already been abandoned and quite successfully ..., everything is tied to convenience and consumption everywhere and everything, video surveillance at every corner and in the store too, the change is counted by the POS terminal and the banking system in the remote DC, so ... you no longer need to count !!!
            2. aleksejkabanets
              aleksejkabanets 23 November 2021 21: 19
              0
              Quote: AUL
              This technique is called demagoguery.

              You probably did not read it carefully, I answered your question. Demagoguery is a slightly different concept.
      5. vVvAD
        vVvAD 23 November 2021 22: 41
        +5
        And what, let me ask you, is the economic system in the PRC, ROK and Vietnam?
        Bastrykin is talking about it. It's about the approach to education, its connection with science. I rushed into the same river twice, but you can take the best from the Soviet education system and apply it to modern realities, which, in fact, did both the Asian tigers, led by the PRC in mass education, and Western countries, in elite education, for higher strata of society.
        The Soviet school is inconceivable without a socialist economic system.

        In a milder form, analogues of the State Planning Commission, economic planning, are present in all developed countries. The system of sectoral and state standardization, like HASP in the food industry, which our big business is drooling over, is an ugly semblance of Soviet GOSTs. Systems for encouraging innovation and resource conservation are also largely borrowed from the USSR. And a lot more!
        And we borrow the experience of mass Western education and management, producing battery consumers, buying what they do not need, and thrown into the trash when they are not needed.
        And, as a result, erudition, outlook, level of culture, the number of scientific publications, patents and implemented innovations strives for the plinth - "effective" managers burn out in full!
        The Olympics, of course, are not bad. Only if their quantity does not go into the above quality, and their winners go abroad, then there is nothing to be proud of: our education system supplies highly qualified specialists not to the country, but to a foreign land, i.e. actually works for foreign countries.
        In the state sense, such education is a pittance. Only harm.
        And the Unified State Exam is useful in the sense that it provides an opportunity to submit the results of its delivery to different universities in the country. But to the USE itself, this, in general, has nothing to do.
        1. aleksejkabanets
          aleksejkabanets 24 November 2021 08: 43
          0
          Quote: vVvAD
          And what, let me ask you, is the economic system in the PRC, ROK and Vietnam?

          Is there really the same "peripheral raw capitalism" as ours?
          Quote: vVvAD
          I rushed into the same river twice, but you can take the best from the Soviet education system and apply it to modern realities, which, in fact, did both the Asian tigers, led by the PRC in mass education, and Western countries, in elite education, for higher education. strata of society.

          So in our "elite education" we use Soviet methods and so on, the Lomonosov school is an example of this. Only "Soviet education" is not Soviet education implies the upbringing of the individual, for whom the social is higher than the personal, but this is not about that. Under the current economic system - raw peripheral capitalism, we will never have a mass good education. Firstly, "our" state does not need such a large number of specialists. What for? Where will they work? The most demanded specialties today are a salesman, a security guard, a driver. Secondly, when all these people receive a good education and learn to think and build causal relationships, what will they do when they realize that they have nowhere to put their strength and mind? Listen to what Gref says about education, then you will understand how “our” moneybags think, and in fact today's state expresses precisely their interests, and not the interests of ordinary people.

          Quote: vVvAD
          And we borrow the experience of mass Western education and management, producing battery consumers, buying what they do not need, and thrown into the trash when they are not needed.

          So this is capitalism, in its purest form.)))) This is what "our" state is building.
          Only the American state is robbing the whole world, and "our" state is especially looting and there is nobody. This is what determines the difference in the standard of living between our states.

          Quote: vVvAD
          And the Unified State Exam is useful in the sense that it provides an opportunity to submit the results of its delivery to different universities in the country. But to the USE itself, this, in general, has nothing to do.

          The exam, as a single exam for everyone, is not a bad idea, but here is its implementation .......
      6. English tarantas
        English tarantas 24 November 2021 07: 49
        +6
        + for which you threw minuses, apparently the adherents of business. Bastrikin is a poaulist, talking nonsense, Soviet education was based on fully budgetary payment and on the basis of an equal and fair competition. A high general level of education was achieved by good salaries of teachers, which gave a good teaching staff, and most importantly, if there are a lot of students, then the competition for grades is higher, and for this it is necessary that everyone could learn to the best of their ability, if you are smart enough then you go to a university because you are smart, and you will receive grades relative to other smart ones, and not because you paid for a place and the administration of the educational institution asks the teachers to give you triples, otherwise there will be nothing to pay your salary.
      7. zenion
        zenion 24 November 2021 15: 43
        +1
        aleksejkabanets. Do you think he said it? They told him what he would say. Everything falls apart and everything sticks out like a hundred sewn out of a bag.
        1. aleksejkabanets
          aleksejkabanets 24 November 2021 15: 55
          0
          Quote: zenion
          Everything falls apart and everything sticks out like a hundred sewn out of a bag.

          You probably don't see enough of Solovyov.))))) But seriously, you are absolutely right, everything is falling apart, I'm afraid there will be blood again. Look in the next topic, Chechnya is already moving its military units to Ingushetia, they argue for the land.
      8. Ryusey
        Ryusey 24 November 2021 19: 43
        0
        And you are one of them.
    2. Crowe
      Crowe 23 November 2021 15: 15
      +20
      Well, of course, they started to panic. Young snoopers come, but there is zero knowledge.
      It is surprising that only the head of the Investigative Committee voiced this problem, is it not exactly the same situation in other departments? It was necessary to abandon the USE and return to the Soviet education system yesterday, not even today. We remembered now that so much time has been lost.
      1. Zhan
        Zhan 23 November 2021 15: 36
        +14
        It is surprising that only the head of the Investigative Committee voiced this problem, isn't it exactly the same situation in other departments?

        Exactly the same. But I’m honestly speaking, I didn’t expect to hear this from a Minister of this level. Moreover, it made me very happy. The situation is really complete shit ..
        1. Clear
          Clear 23 November 2021 22: 37
          +3
          Quote: Zhan
          I’m honestly speaking, I didn’t expect to hear this from the Minister

          Quote: Crowe
          the head of the UK voiced this problem,

          Well, well, well... winked , if Fursenko, in the near future, goes to bed without undressing, then this is a serious matter.
      2. your1970
        your1970 24 November 2021 07: 12
        0
        Quote: Crowe
        Well, of course, they started to panic. Young snoopers come, but there is zero knowledge.
        It is surprising that only the head of the Investigative Committee voiced this problem, is it not exactly the same situation in other departments? It was necessary to abandon the USE and return to the Soviet education system yesterday, not even today. We remembered now that so much time has been lost.

        What nafig "young traders"? The USE is already 20 ( TWENTY!!!!!!!) years rent ...
      3. English tarantas
        English tarantas 24 November 2021 07: 50
        +2
        It's just that the "head ck" is a serious person, he can afford to say a little more
    3. Barberry25
      Barberry25 23 November 2021 15: 18
      .
      It's funny, but 20 years ago, young sledakov were criticized for the same thing, that they are stupid like traffic jams .. and then they studied according to the "best Soviet education" .. why would it?
      1. riddik70
        riddik70 23 November 2021 16: 02
        +12
        20 years ago there was no Soviet education.
        1. Barberry25
          Barberry25 23 November 2021 16: 53
          .
          will we memorize the works of Lenin?
        2. Zhan
          Zhan 23 November 2021 16: 54
          +3
          It was, in technical universities it lasted until 2009. I don’t know as a humanist.
        3. alexmach
          alexmach 23 November 2021 18: 14
          +2
          As a graduate of school 23 years ago, I disagree with you.
      2. Hagen
        Hagen 23 November 2021 16: 24
        +9
        Quote: Barberry25
        but 20 years ago, young trackers were criticized for the same thing, that they are stupid as traffic jams

        “Today's young people are accustomed to luxury, they are distinguished by bad manners, despise authorities, disrespect elders, children argue with adults, swallow food greedily, and harass teachers.”
        (Socrates, V century BC)
        “I have lost all hope of the future of our country if today's youth tomorrow takes over the reins of government. For this youth is unbearable, unstable, just awful. ”
        (Hesiod, 720 BC)
        Apparently, not only 20 years ago ... laughing
        1. Barberry25
          Barberry25 23 November 2021 16: 53
          0
          can not argue with that)
        2. alexmach
          alexmach 23 November 2021 18: 20
          +4
          (Socrates, V century BC)

          Yeah and then ..
          Ultimately, the contradictions between these groups led to the disastrous Peloponnesian War (431-404 BC) - the largest war in the history of Ancient Greece. Having suffered a defeat in it, Athens has forever lost its leading position in Greece.

          Right during the life of Socrates ..
    4. Thrifty
      Thrifty 23 November 2021 15: 24
      +12
      I totally agree with him! This system prepares rams, their knowledge is minimal, and a complete inability to use even this knowledge.
      1. Paranoid50
        Paranoid50 23 November 2021 16: 31
        -9
        Quote: Thrifty
        This system prepares bar-nov

        Yes. Just wondering what system prepared the local klikush, what are they making three mistakes in the word "soul"? request wink And excuses "there was no time to learn" here do not roll - if in life there is a dolboy, incapable of learning even his native (?) Language, then any system is powerless. yes
      2. Nikolay1987
        Nikolay1987 23 November 2021 16: 48
        +8
        Quote: Thrifty
        I totally agree with him! This system prepares rams, their knowledge is minimal, and a complete inability to use even this knowledge.

        Not so long ago, a trainee investigator wrote down my testimony, then she gave it to me to read ... I almost bleed from my eyes. As I hear and write! Pointing out the inaccuracy, I again read out the testimony with the indication of punctuation marks. It didn't even bother her. But I have a three with a minus in Russian.
        1. Ingvar 72
          Ingvar 72 25 November 2021 20: 29
          +2
          Quote: Nikolay1987
          It didn't even bother her. But I have a three with a minus in Russian.

          I also have a C grade. The wife is young, and already the exam, in the certificate 4-5. So she often takes offense when I troll her with questions, the answers to which in my time were known to the poor. request
      3. Alf
        Alf 23 November 2021 19: 10
        +4
        Quote: Thrifty
        This system prepares bar-nov

        If the System prepares such artiodactyls, then the System needs just such.
        1. your1970
          your1970 24 November 2021 07: 15
          +1
          - this is not a bribe - this is a gift !!! and the sheep studies at the institute (c)
          This is from an anecdote 1970h
      4. for
        for 23 November 2021 19: 13
        +2
        Quote: Thrifty
        This system prepares rams, their knowledge is minimal, and a complete inability to use even this knowledge.

        And you have no children, no grandchildren, as well as agree with you. These are other people's rams, and mine are the best in spite of the system. Whoever wants to learn learns, regardless of the system.
      5. atalef
        atalef 23 November 2021 19: 29
        0
        Quote: Thrifty
        I totally agree with him! This system prepares rams, their knowledge is minimal, and a complete inability to use even this knowledge.

        oddly enough, but in the west the same EG.
        Interestingly, all the technical progress is that the Martians are moving there?
        And at Harvard & Co. who is studying?
    5. dauria
      dauria 23 November 2021 15: 25
      +15
      A solid pattern of the exam, and the Soviet school, gave a harmonious all-round education

      It's not about the exam. And in a mixture of paid and free (budget) education. We scored a part based on the USE results. The rest is paid. Which no one will throw out as a result of the session - the university has become a store selling diplomas. You can’t drive out buyers, you won’t live. Who will eventually receive their diploma. Plus, there are so many universities themselves that there is not enough for all
      "buyers of diplomas". "Come and study with us, both a cow and a she-wolf" - advertising has become the norm even for universities with a name.
      Who should the teacher be guided by during lectures, classes?

      What about the employer then? Organize your own state exam and weed out those who were supposed to weed out five years ago?
      1. Sergej1972
        Sergej1972 23 November 2021 16: 38
        +3
        Platnikov is also recruited based on the USE results. A person who has not scored a certain USE score will not be able to enter a paid education format either.
        1. Ingvar 72
          Ingvar 72 25 November 2021 20: 31
          +2
          Quote: Sergej1972
          Platnikov is also recruited based on the USE results.

          Including the results of the Dagestan USE! wink
      2. Alf
        Alf 23 November 2021 19: 12
        +1
        Quote: dauria
        What about the employer then? Organize your own state exam and weed out those who were supposed to weed out five years ago?

        Where can he go? Either an entrance exam or get ready for the Polar Animal.
      3. vadimtt
        vadimtt 25 November 2021 09: 55
        0
        Something you all turned upside down laughing
        An employer will take a paysite to a warm place, because he is someone who needs a paysite, and a normal graduate will become unemployed, or, most likely, will go over the hill, smart and talented people are needed there. wassat
    6. knn54
      knn54 23 November 2021 15: 46
      +13
      Something anecdote remembered:
      "Test in physics in various universities
      Technical University
      Question: How is the current measured?
      The options are:
      1.Watt
      2.Volt
      3.Ampere

      Military school
      Question: Current strength is measured in amperes !!!
      The options are:
      1.Yes
      2.Is
      3.So Exactly
      1. dauria
        dauria 23 November 2021 18: 02
        +5
        Military school
        Question: Current strength is measured in amperes !!!


        Do you know what is the difference between a military and a civilian engineer?
        Average graduation rate and variation from that level. If you make a smart face, adjusting your glasses - checkmate. the expectation is higher and the variance is lower for the military. How the batches of transistors were once labeled. If the batch has passed the test of the spread of parameters, then the military is 2T603B, if the marriage is then KT603B. There were the smartest big-headed guys from two-year-olds. But there were also outright ignoramuses with diplomas.
        At the level of the district military commissar, selection began for future military personnel. The commissioner knew the level of requirements of a particular school, collected, among other things, grades for the 9th and 10th grades (even before receiving the certificate) and for the empty run at the state expense of the applicant from Sverdlovsk to Kiev and back he was not praised, but scolded.
        However, schools, as well as institutes, were different. With a different competition. And 16-20 people per seat was not uncommon. Only now the entrance exams to military schools were held a month earlier. Can you guess why?
    7. Kapkan
      Kapkan 23 November 2021 16: 32
      +3
      Exactly. Failure began in all directions. USE officers do not take out anything. (
      1. Alf
        Alf 23 November 2021 19: 13
        0
        Quote: Kapkan
        EGEs do not export anything.

        They don't even know how ... laughing
      2. your1970
        your1970 24 November 2021 07: 18
        0
        Quote: Kapkan
        Exactly. Failure began in all directions. USE officers do not take out anything. (

        The first exam in 2001 was ... graduates under forty now
    8. bairat
      bairat 23 November 2021 17: 05
      +3
      She gave education, but at the same time did not overload the children. My daughter is in the 4th grade, the backpack is not lifted from textbooks. I read the blog of one teacher, a former Russian woman, who now works in Denmark. There is no such pressure on children there. They can drop everything and go for a walk in the park. And not fools grow up.
      1. Alf
        Alf 23 November 2021 19: 15
        +3
        Quote: bairat
        My daughter is in 4th grade,

        It is now. In my 4th grade I had a maximum of 4 textbooks in my knapsack.
        Quote: bairat
        And not fools grow up.

        Exactly. Qualified consumers.
        1. bairat
          bairat 23 November 2021 20: 19
          0
          Quote: Alf
          Exactly. Qualified consumers.

          First of all, manufacturers. Industry and agriculture for such a small country is even nothing.
      2. dauria
        dauria 23 November 2021 19: 44
        +5
        They can drop everything and go for a walk in the park. And not fools grow up.

        "Not a fool" and "educated" are different things. Perhaps you will be surprised, but in the generation of the USSR born in the 30s, there were many people with 4 grades. And that's it, then just work. The reason is simple - there were no 7-year schools in the villages. And not everyone could send to study at least 20 km to the district. And they worked, including at factories, even in the 80s. Will the language turn to call those women fools? Yes, most of them were smarter than the current "three formations". In everyday life, in understanding people, in behavior, in raising children, in making important decisions in life.
        Education is already different. Knowledge is general and special, which must be crammed into the head. An individual can live without them (someone even became a millionaire in the United States, not knowing how to read), but not for a country.
    9. hohohol
      hohohol 23 November 2021 20: 31
      -2
      Zhan, I said everything correctly, we are rolling into the abyss.
    10. Alexander Seklitsky
      Alexander Seklitsky 24 November 2021 05: 14
      0
      The Soviet school was effective only in conjunction with the system of social lifts. In the current realities, most university graduates put their diplomas in a box and go to work in the top five or to tax. The only financial sphere is IT technology.
    11. your1970
      your1970 24 November 2021 07: 00
      +1
      Quote: Zhan
      Young snoopers come, but there is zero knowledge.

      Is it okay that the first trainees who took the exam for 20 years can work and retire?
      Since 2001, this Baida has been working
    12. The comment was deleted.
    13. Bar1
      Bar1 24 November 2021 15: 15
      +1
      Hello, it's time to abolish capitalism and capitalists with their system of duping.
    14. Ratmir_Ryazan
      Ratmir_Ryazan 25 November 2021 11: 55
      0
      Well, of course, they started to panic. Young snoopers come, but there is zero knowledge.


      Don't talk nonsense !!!

      Before the introduction of the Unified State Exam, all applicants to departmental and budgetary universities were enrolled through pulls and bribes, and now the admission system has become more transparent, so tutors have become so in demand, those who want to enter a university not only study at school, but also study additionally. because it is not possible to act differently now.

      And those who have lost their annual feeder in the form of bribes from applicants, as well as the parents of mediocrities and ignoramuses, whine about the USE, as they now realize that they will not be able to shove their child into a prestigious university for money.

      The Unified State Exam is not a training system, the system remains the same, it is a control system and it is much better than what came before it.

      It is very sad to hear what he says from Bastrykin. It would be better if I was engaged in my direct duties - I watched the prosecutors. In Ryazan, the mayor Provoke that he crushed to death two children were left at large, for the reason that while the investigation was underway (about 6 years), the statute of limitations expired and he was found guilty, but was not brought to criminal responsibility. Moreover, the investigation was carried out by those who studied and entered the university, before the introduction of the USE.
  2. Gunner
    Gunner 23 November 2021 15: 06
    +6
    Well done, he said everything right. Only it is unlikely that something will change.
    1. Clear
      Clear 23 November 2021 22: 42
      +1
      Quote: Gunner
      Well done, he said everything right. Only it is unlikely that something will change.

      Yeah. This statement should be answered by the Minister of Education and Assistant to President Fursenko, as the creator of the Unified State Exam and is now in charge of this direction.
      1. your1970
        your1970 24 November 2021 07: 21
        0
        Quote: Clear
        Quote: Gunner
        Well done, he said everything right. Only it is unlikely that something will change.

        Yeah. This statement should be answered by the Minister of Education and Assistant to President Fursenko, as the creator of the Unified State Exam and is now in charge of this direction.

        Actually, they began to take the exam in 2001 ...
        To blurt out about the "original creator Fursenko" is just in the spirit of the Unified State Exam
        1. Clear
          Clear 24 November 2021 15: 27
          +1
          Quote: your1970
          Quote: Clear
          Quote: Gunner
          Well done, he said everything right. Only it is unlikely that something will change.

          Yeah. This statement should be answered by the Minister of Education and Assistant to President Fursenko, as the creator of the Unified State Exam and is now in charge of this direction.

          Actually, they began to take the exam in 2001 ...
          To blurt out about the "original creator Fursenko" is just in the spirit of the Unified State Exam

          I, too, at first thought that you didn’t know very well who was the original creator ..., but it turns out that you don’t know anything at all.
          He, too, blames everything on Bolotov.
  3. mojohed2012
    mojohed2012 23 November 2021 15: 07
    +6
    Here is the problem !!! Cancel the exam and introduce exams. What's the problem?
    What kind of destruction of Soviet education is irrevocable?
    Yes, they just licked the obviously unsuccessful and ineffective experience of Western countries during the years of worshiping the West, and now those who graduated from Western schools and Western universities with the money of rich dads in considerable ranks sit in power and government.
    The Unified State Exam will not be canceled, because it will become clear to everyone that the entire course of reforms in education - and in general most of the reforms have suffered a moral collapse.
    1. Zhan
      Zhan 23 November 2021 15: 13
      +4
      The Unified State Exam will not be canceled, because it will become clear to everyone that the entire course of reforms in education - and in general most of the reforms have suffered a moral collapse.

      We'll have to Cancel, otherwise we, in most of our children and future specialists, will get oblivaned, easily manageable mediocrity with the further profanation of all absolutely spheres of life.
      1. mojohed2012
        mojohed2012 23 November 2021 15: 17
        +15
        Yes, the GDP itself will not allow the USE to be canceled, tk. it was during his time that he was imposed on everyone. Over the knee, they ground all the dissatisfied, who argued that the exam was complete nonsense. And the results of the USE in a number of southern republics from year to year prove that it is there that children are highly gifted with knowledge (or vice versa. No?). Something in the metro and on the streets, these gifted people from year to year breed xenophobia and hostility. and now they are forced not to mention their nationality when covering incidents with them!
        1. Doctor
          Doctor 23 November 2021 15: 19
          +3
          And the results of the USE in a number of southern republics from year to year prove that it is there that children are highly gifted with knowledge (or vice versa. No?).

          On average in the country there is one stacker for 200 people.
          In Dagestan - one in 500, i.e. 2,5 times worse.

          Now imagine what the results will be if the USE is canceled? laughing
        2. Kaw
          Kaw 23 November 2021 15: 29
          +7
          But what if the same people who teach them begin to take exams for children, then the situation will change for the better?
          1. betta
            betta 23 November 2021 15: 48
            +2
            But others will accept, and they will ask.
    2. Barberry25
      Barberry25 23 November 2021 15: 18
      +3
      laughing to get a bunch of gold medalists from the Caucasus again who can't speak Russian?
      1. mojohed2012
        mojohed2012 23 November 2021 15: 22
        +5
        It seems that their teachers also do not shine with knowledge of the Russian language.
        Give free rein, as some leaders of the southern republics will soon ask the GDP to introduce their languages ​​as the second state ones. And what? You go in transport. And then 3 citizens will ask you not in Russian, but you don't understand - disrespect!
        In general, it seems that they only do what they cling to the Russians on their peculiar notions of respect. There is also a cult of strength, a cult of MMA, what kind of education and upbringing are there ...
        1. Barberry25
          Barberry25 23 November 2021 15: 32
          0
          not without this .. but here is the question of a strong central government in fact, the USE has not been a test for a long time, according to the standard there are two sections, in the first you need to write the answer, and in the second a detailed answer .. both sections require knowledge
        2. Sergej1972
          Sergej1972 23 November 2021 16: 41
          -1
          Honestly, I have not seen young Dagestanis or Chechens who speak Russian poorly. In multinational and multilingual Dagestan, knowledge of the Russian language is indispensable.
          1. Barberry25
            Barberry25 23 November 2021 16: 57
            0
            but there were precedents when, at the dawn of the Unified State Exam, they received a batch of 100 balls from the Caucasus, that even Kadyrov became interested in this issue, as a result, the procedure was finalized and the question was removed ... but if the teachers and the classical exam are returned, it will be more difficult to ensure the adequacy of the exams
    3. Alf
      Alf 23 November 2021 19: 16
      0
      Quote: mojohed2012
      and in general most of the reforms suffered a moral collapse.

      Both "moral" and "real".
    4. atalef
      atalef 23 November 2021 19: 34
      -3
      Quote: mojohed2012
      Yes, they just licked the obviously unsuccessful and ineffective experience of Western countries in

      and in what it is not effective?
      Maybe the USSR at one time was ahead of the Western countries with its education system?
      Maybe now in the west is not the same EG? Everyone who entered Harvard. Yale or Oxford took their EGs.
      It is EG.
      Well ? Bad results?
      Niv EG business, the problem is deeper.
      1. Sergej1972
        Sergej1972 24 November 2021 14: 35
        0
        I agree with almost everything. The abbreviation EG, which is constantly found in your comments, only hurts the eye. After all, the exam.)
  4. Servisinzhener
    Servisinzhener 23 November 2021 15: 08
    +17
    It is not the systems of final and entrance examinations that need to be changed, but the content of education. If the content is chosen to make qualified consumers, then changing the method of knowledge testing will not bring an improvement in the level of education.
    1. Kamarada
      Kamarada 23 November 2021 15: 15
      +7
      It is necessary to change the economic system, the elite, and also there must be a change of power. It is not possible to introduce the Soviet system in education with the system that is now in Russia.
      1. Kaw
        Kaw 23 November 2021 15: 26
        -4
        In the Soviet Union, there was almost no change of power. Therefore, the current government is promoting the Soviet system. IMHO
      2. Elephant
        Elephant 23 November 2021 16: 33
        +4
        Quote: Kamarada
        We need to change the economic system,

        We need real economic reforms aimed at GDP growth. Then there will be a need for qualified specialists.
        1. Genry
          Genry 23 November 2021 18: 22
          -5
          Already now there is a huge need for specialists of an engineering and scientific level.
          Microelectronics, programming, development / design / technological_support (in various industries), fundamental scientific research ...
          Many primitive specialties will either be forgotten or transformed with automation.
          1. Sergej1972
            Sergej1972 24 November 2021 14: 33
            0
            This is true. But we need some kind of niche for people who are not very creative and developed. They are not to blame for this, and they will also have to provide for their families. Even so, simple professions should also remain.
        2. Alf
          Alf 23 November 2021 19: 21
          +2
          Quote: Elephant
          We need real economic reforms aimed at GDP growth.

          Why, if there is Her Majesty Trumpet?
          Quote: Elephant
          Then there will be a need for qualified specialists.

          Specialists must be paid and respected, and if the owner pays the worker not 30 tyrs, but 60-70, then he himself will not have much left, and he cannot allow this.
    2. Barberry25
      Barberry25 23 November 2021 15: 19
      -2
      golden words ... catch plus in karma
    3. alexmach
      alexmach 23 November 2021 15: 33
      +7
      It is not the systems of final and entrance exams that need to be changed, but the content of education

      That's it, just let's dig a little deeper. In order to change the content, you need to understand what are the goals of this education. What kind of person does the country and society need? And there is no such understanding. And as soon as such an understanding appears, it immediately turns out that it would be better if it did not exist at all ..

      Yes, for some time we were pulled forward by the Soviet legacy, but it cannot pull us forever .. Now it does not pull us any more.
      1. Barberry25
        Barberry25 24 November 2021 15: 33
        -1
        this is the very education that led to the fact that people charged water and brought money to the MMM? here by the way there was a joke ... the pensioners refused to let their acquaintances in because of "you were vaccinated, you are now contagious" ... and all with the Soviet education ... Soviet education had its own shoals and many ..
        1. alexmach
          alexmach 24 November 2021 16: 13
          0
          Is this the very education that led to people charging water and bringing money to MMM?

          Money in MMM is just a lack of experience. Both understanding the basics of the economy and living in a world filled with advertising.

          About charging water - more interesting. It was rather a consequence of the breakdown of the ideological system and censorship-propaganda. And all this, among other things, protected society from parasites.

          And today's retirees, they are more likely still in many respects the fruits of the existing society and not only school education received many, many years ago.

          As for Soviet education, especially school education, I am not inclined to ideologize it and declare that it was still the best of the best in the world, most likely this is not entirely true. However, it had clear goals, and 100% met these goals. And given its massiveness, it is strange to deny its merits and achievements.
          1. Barberry25
            Barberry25 24 November 2021 16: 55
            -2
            those. the best education didn’t make people understand that “charging water from the TV” is stupid? It's not about the USE, but about what and how it is taught ... If we want to get a modern education and the best in the world, we need a clear program:
            1) it is necessary to bring education under the federal level of management and funding, and not as it is now
            2) it is necessary to increase at least 3 times the funding of school education, because it is at least strange to receive 0,9 trillion rubles for all education, when only salaries require 1 trillion with normal development,
            3) introduce measures of punishment for schoolchildren for non-observance of discipline, up to expulsion
            4) protections for teachers
            5) starting from the 6th grade, students should study in depth in subjects that are of interest to them out of class, and from the 9th grade they should form classes in these subjects, so that "in the sixth lesson" they go to specific classrooms for in-depth study of the subjects of interest
            ..this is purely at a minimum that came to mind in a minute
            1. alexmach
              alexmach 24 November 2021 18: 13
              0
              those. the best education didn’t make people understand that “charging water from the TV” is stupid?

              I have already written about the best education above. No, it didn't, because that education did not give immunity from propaganda, because in that society, propaganda and, in general, the information sphere was in the hands of the state and not enemies, as it is now, and such immunity was not needed.

              It's not about the exam, but about what and how it is taught ...

              I do not think that the school physics course has changed significantly over the last 50 years. What and how is taught is to some extent related to how it is tested. From a developmental point of view, the oral exam is much preferable to tests, but it is also much more subjective.

              Regarding your suggestions,
              1,2 - I can’t comment because I don’t know how it really is there now.
              5 - I generally like it, but there are nuances.
              3,4 - makes sense, but it is not entirely clear how exactly to implement 4.
              1. Barberry25
                Barberry25 24 November 2021 18: 45
                -2
                there are always nuances ... on point 4, everything is simple, now any application for a teacher will lead to dismissal in the mind "you have no right", I think that if you implement a punishment system for schoolchildren in the form of a violation of discipline, a warning and a call to parents, then a call to school, then a ban on attendance for 2 weeks, and then an exception. I think that already this stage will reduce the problem of attacks on teachers, plus if the student says that the teacher behaved somehow badly, then the student must prove it, and not And then everything depends on the parents, if they want the child to study, they will give him the first number and he will behave like a good boy, and if not, then after the second school he will send him to study at a school for difficult teenagers. This will reduce the burden on teachers + increase the salary to the level: a young teacher is 0,75 of the average salary in the region, and an experienced teacher is already more than average up to 1,5 of the average salary in the region. in, and even in teachers in 5-6 years, those interested in a good salary will begin to stretch, And not those who were expelled from other faculties
                1. alexmach
                  alexmach 24 November 2021 19: 07
                  0
                  You can already demand high-quality training for schoolchildren, and in 5-6 years, those interested in a good salary will begin to be attracted to teachers, and not those who were expelled from other faculties

                  I don’t know, our teachers' salaries are not bad. Not that it would be super-super but also not a "minimum wage". Normal salaries. I don't see much of a result.

                  All the same, the approach - the teacher scolded the program and ... the parents are responsible for education. Such nonsense is written in the law.
                  1. Barberry25
                    Barberry25 24 November 2021 20: 35
                    -2
                    well, this is in cities and full-time with a plus ... but in any case, teachers need to get normal in order to make a competition for a university, and not row everyone in a row
                    1. alexmach
                      alexmach 24 November 2021 20: 44
                      0
                      Excuse me, but to do a competition in a university and not to row everyone in a row, you need something completely different.
                      1.there is a need for university education to be of value in itself
                      2. it is necessary that there were so many places in the university ... that one would have to compete for them.

                      A simple example. I finished school and entered the university in 98. At that time in Ukraine (there was a case) there were 2,5 times more students than in Soviet times ... this despite the fact that at least 2/3 of the industry went away.

                      During the time that I studied, the number of freshmen at my faculty, compared to my first year, at least doubled. At other faculties, things may not have been so turbulent, but in general, the university sorely lacked classrooms, and this despite the fact that the number of universities has also grown ..

                      Universities and education there and the competition in them is actually a separate song ... There is something else - there is a problem a little more banal - that everyone is interested in the process and not as a result .. And "treating" it as a whole can be done with simpler methods.

                      School education is getting thinner, if only because it covers the entire population by default, in contrast to the university one.
                      1. Barberry25
                        Barberry25 24 November 2021 23: 22
                        -1
                        they compete not for places, but for a future profession ... why is there no competition for teachers? because it is not prestigious ..
  5. Doctor
    Doctor 23 November 2021 15: 08
    +3
    Education is one thing.
    And the type of exam is different.

    Not satisfied with objective writing? Do we want subjective oral?

    Why, I wonder? wink
    1. Servisinzhener
      Servisinzhener 23 November 2021 15: 11
      +5
      So that they were brought in both at school and at the university.
      1. Doctor
        Doctor 23 November 2021 15: 32
        -2
        So that they were brought in both at school and at the university.

        Yes, even this is not the point, they have enough dough now.

        Can you imagine how difficult it is now to attach your own people, for example, to the Academy of the Department of Economic Security (former OBKHSS)?

        Previously, everything was decided on a call, but now it is necessary to take some kind of exam ?! lol
  6. The comment was deleted.
    1. HAM
      HAM 23 November 2021 15: 17
      +8
      [Center][/ cente


      THIS is how they "teach" now
    2. Cat Alexandrovich
      Cat Alexandrovich 23 November 2021 15: 18
      0
      Ty, yes, Bastrykin is the modern system. Or is it not so? Or is he a "partisan" in it?
    3. Barberry25
      Barberry25 23 November 2021 15: 20
      -3
      And before that, high-class specialists were graduated?) and yes .. how are the victims of the exam to blame for the terrible teaching in universities?
      1. Elephant
        Elephant 23 November 2021 16: 42
        -2
        Do the students themselves study diligently? Many of them simply do not see the prospects of their subsequent employment!
        1. Barberry25
          Barberry25 23 November 2021 16: 55
          -2
          but what has the Unified State Exam to do with it? if the student is a stump, then at least the Unified State Exam, even though the oral-written five-point exam will not change this .. The Unified State Exam currently allows assessing the student's knowledge without taking into account the teacher ..
  7. Woodman
    Woodman 23 November 2021 15: 11
    +6
    say that the modern education system “is not worse than the Soviet one,
    I will not say about the quality of education, but modern textbooks on most school subjects are frankly enraged. Especially in the exact sciences.
    1. Alf
      Alf 23 November 2021 19: 31
      +1
      Quote: Lesovik
      but modern textbooks on most school subjects are frankly infuriating.

  8. purple
    purple 23 November 2021 15: 11
    +7
    Why don’t change the point, there will be no teachers at school!
    Where does education come from ... even Soviet, even Western ...

    Education is, first of all, Personnel - teachers ... and only then the methodology ..
    1. Servisinzhener
      Servisinzhener 23 November 2021 15: 14
      +13
      And also the attitude towards the teacher. In Soviet times, the teacher was a tsar and a god, and now a man who is afraid of students.
      1. tihonmarine
        tihonmarine 23 November 2021 16: 02
        -8
        Quote: Servisinzhener
        In Soviet times, the teacher was a tsar and a god, and now a man who is afraid of students.

        Children need to be taught, not maimed.
        1. Elephant
          Elephant 23 November 2021 16: 45
          +1
          Does home education count?
          1. tihonmarine
            tihonmarine 23 November 2021 16: 59
            0
            Quote: Elephant
            Does home education count?

            It is necessary to educate at home, at school, and on the street. And if we all treat children like a burr, then we just cripple them.
      2. Sergej1972
        Sergej1972 23 November 2021 16: 44
        0
        In the late Soviet period, this was no longer the case. It was not for nothing that under Andropov and Chernenko they carried out a school reform.
      3. bairat
        bairat 23 November 2021 20: 40
        +2
        Quote: Servisinzhener
        and now a man who is afraid of his disciples.

        They are afraid of their parents. That they will complain to the director or even higher. Parents, realizing their power, begin to dictate to the teacher, right up to the conduct of the educational process. And their child is always right.
      4. your1970
        your1970 24 November 2021 07: 28
        0
        Quote: Servisinzhener
        And also the attitude towards the teacher. In Soviet times, the teacher was a tsar and a god as well.

        Oha ......
        "if you don't enter the Polytechnic, you will go to the pedagogue !!!" (c) absolutely Soviet 1970s
        And yes, the salary of 120 rubles directly hinted to the teacher - that she was "the king and God" .....
        1. Ady66
          Ady66 24 November 2021 12: 18
          +1
          "No mind - go to ped, there is no shame - go to honey, if there are none, then go to the polytechnic." "If you are stubborn and stubborn, go to the mountain." It's like that, from the 80s
    2. The comment was deleted.
  9. Fitter65
    Fitter65 23 November 2021 15: 12
    0
    Speaking at a conference on the role of law in ensuring human well-being, the chairman of the RF IC criticized the education system and called for the return of its Soviet version.
    Well, let's hope that soon the Minister of the Ministry of Internal Affairs will duplicate this, the next will be the Ministry of Emergency Situations. I just want to say is it GOT? !!!
    Quote: Zhan
    Well, of course, they started to panic. Young snoopers come, but there is zero knowledge. A solid pattern of the Unified State Exam, and the Soviet school, gave a harmonious all-round education, taught to work with literature, think, reason. And the generation of googliks and cramps has pulled up.

    Yes, these googles are already in some places and begin to lead hi
  10. rocket757
    rocket757 23 November 2021 15: 13
    +4
    Russia reacts to the proposal of the head of the RF IC to return the Soviet education system and abandon the exam
    QUESTION ... but something will fundamentally change from that ??? The school, and others, have already been overturned and they can now only provide SERVICES!
    It will not be easy to break, break, rebuild and ... it will not be easy, and it is important to remember that the SCHOOL was a carrier, an element STATE IDEOLOGY !!! And without this, it will remain an office that provides services!
    By the way, is no one going to disperse the Ministry of Education ??? they there, too, have long been sharpened to be helpful to ... the ruling class and nothing, nothing else!
    1. nobody75
      nobody75 23 November 2021 15: 32
      -5
      SCHOOL was a carrier, an element of STATE IDEOLOGY !!!

      Excuse me, this is where the Soviet school was the bearer of the state ideology ???
      The communists, following the classics of Marxism - Leninism, treated the state ... very badly. All state movements in the field of education were tightly controlled along the party line ...
      Sincerely
      1. rocket757
        rocket757 23 November 2021 19: 41
        +1
        Are you ready to argue about the taste of bananas with those who ate them ??? Have you tried them yourself?
        1. nobody75
          nobody75 23 November 2021 19: 46
          -2
          What does bananas have to do with it? What does Marx say about the state? Give me an analogue of the Department of Education (with the same powers) in the USSR? Whose part was on the last pages of the primer of Brezhnev or Kosygin?
          Sincerely
          1. rocket757
            rocket757 23 November 2021 20: 12
            0
            If you do not understand about bananas ... what to talk to you about then?
            EVERY SOVIET PERSON knows about the taste of bananas!
            1. nobody75
              nobody75 23 November 2021 20: 32
              -2
              Bananas are for lovely ladies ... I'm heterosexual.
              Is there anything to write about education and "state ideology" in the Soviet school?
              Sincerely
              1. rocket757
                rocket757 24 November 2021 06: 03
                0
                Okay, plus for persistence.
                It is clear that you are not Soviet ... what kind of interest do you have in the topic of the Soviet school and education in general? Who have you read, studied? Because the way you wrote .... sorry, this is bullshit and a complete misunderstanding of how and what was real.
                1. nobody75
                  nobody75 24 November 2021 07: 18
                  0
                  Forgive me, how many years have you had teaching experience?
                  Sincerely
                  1. rocket757
                    rocket757 24 November 2021 08: 06
                    0
                    You can have a teaching experience ... a lot and not be, while a TEACHER.
                    The question was for ideology, i.e. methodology of educating BUILDERS OF COMMUNISM, SOCIALISM, SOVIET MAN.
                    This is different from what is now ... "office" for the provision of educational services.
                    We do not have the Ministry of Education, Education, but the main office for the provision of services, in the format "what you please". Although, they just carry out the order from above ... exactly what you please.
                    1. nobody75
                      nobody75 24 November 2021 08: 34
                      0
                      "The question was for ideology, that is, the methodology of educating the BUILDERS OF COMMUNISM, SOCIALISM, SOVIET MAN."
                      Excuse me, but you do not remember in what year the socio-cultural community called "the Soviet people" appeared in the party ideological documents? And before that, what happened? not brought up?
                      Sincerely
                      1. rocket757
                        rocket757 24 November 2021 08: 47
                        0
                        Comrade Stalin spoke about the ENTIRE SOVIET PEOPLE ...
                        I'm not writing a monograph about the stages of the formation of the Soviet state and what ideology was, who and when formulated it ...
                        Then yes, full name and date of this or that event, document.
                        It is not so difficult to find, if there is such a goal.
                        But, I ask again ... where does the question about the taste of bananas come from, who introduced this definition to the people? This is a clear test, are you a Soviet person or have you passed by?
                        PS Who doesn't love you so much, notes with minuses? quite adequate communication, don't we hurt anyone?
                      2. nobody75
                        nobody75 24 November 2021 10: 36
                        0
                        You know, I'm not very interested in any tests ... I was born in Moscow in the "stagnant" years. And there were bananas ... Cuban and green really ... I do not consider myself a Soviet man and did not consider myself in the USSR.
                        Education issues are much more interesting to me.
                        Pioneer, Komsomol and Party ideologies were involved in the school's ideology. organizations.
                        Sincerely
                      3. rocket757
                        rocket757 24 November 2021 11: 52
                        0
                        It is necessary to be able to separate all those ideological organizations from the students, the learning process ...
                        There were, of course, complete ones ... but it is not worth taking them for a significant mass, at least somehow influencing all the real processes of teaching and upbringing of schoolchildren.
                        Not a Muscovite ... but I had to eat bananas, straight from the palm tree, like some other exotic fruits in the same stagnant times. the way it tastes better.
                      4. nobody75
                        nobody75 24 November 2021 14: 16
                        0
                        It is necessary to be able to separate all those ideological organizations from students

                        Forgive me, when you were a pioneer were you told something about "Historical Materialism"?
                        Sincerely
                      5. rocket757
                        rocket757 24 November 2021 14: 34
                        0
                        I'll tell you right away ... not interesting.
                        I don’t want to remind you about the “stages of the long journey” along which every citizen of the country passed ... an Octobrist, pioneer, Komsomol member, candidate and “crown of creation” member of the CPSU.
                        Each stage has a corresponding part of a single ideology ... everything is strictly according to age.
                        Do not be foolish to deal with these issues.
                      6. nobody75
                        nobody75 24 November 2021 21: 19
                        0
                        Excuse me, but what ideology did the Octobrists have, in the philosophical sense of the word?
                        Sincerely
  11. purple
    purple 23 November 2021 15: 15
    +3
    Quote: Servisinzhener
    And also the attitude towards the teacher. In Soviet times, the teacher was a tsar and a god, and now a man who is afraid of students.

    Well, it depends on the school ... in our school, no one speaks against the teachers ... otherwise you will fly out ..
    1. Servisinzhener
      Servisinzhener 23 November 2021 15: 23
      +2
      Unfortunately, this approach is gradually fading away. and it is being replaced by the provision of educational services. With all the features of the service sector.
      1. Alf
        Alf 23 November 2021 19: 36
        +1
        Quote: Servisinzhener
        Unfortunately, this approach is gradually fading away. and it is being replaced by the provision of educational services. With all the features of the service sector.

        1. Barberry25
          Barberry25 24 November 2021 15: 39
          -2
          maybe you don't need to refer to the panorama) lol
  12. Maikcg
    Maikcg 23 November 2021 15: 16
    0
    It would not hurt to add logic lessons to the school course.
    1. Elephant
      Elephant 23 November 2021 16: 57
      +2
      And work practice is a must! True, for this production in the country it is necessary to build, ato markets and offices such as horns and hooves are somehow very ...
    2. Alf
      Alf 23 November 2021 19: 41
      0
      Quote: MaikCG
      It would not hurt to add logic lessons to the school course.

      Such a course should be taken by our government, they are talking about such nonsense ...
  13. Barberry25
    Barberry25 23 November 2021 15: 17
    0
    maybe it is better for Bastrykin to be engaged not in education, but in his own department? and then there are an order of magnitude more claims to him than to the Ministry of Education .. When will our specialists go about their business, and not go into others?
  14. SKVichyakow
    SKVichyakow 23 November 2021 15: 17
    +1
    Who knows. Is astronomy being taught at school now?
    1. Doctor
      Doctor 23 November 2021 15: 35
      -1
      Who knows. Is astronomy being taught at school now?

      Stubs. And this is the basic subject of the natural-scientific worldview. winked
    2. Alf
      Alf 23 November 2021 19: 45
      +1
      Quote: SKVichyakow
      Is astronomy being taught at school now?

      What for ? Here THIS is more necessary.
      The Ministry of Education has prepared an updated draft of the Federal Educational Standard (FSES) for primary general education. RBC reviewed the document. The previous version of the draft educational standard included the choice of two modules within the subject "Fundamentals of Religious Cultures - Fundamentals of Religious Cultures of the Peoples of Russia and the Fundamentals of Secular Ethics."

      The new version of the draft educational standards provides for the choice of one of six modules: the foundations of Orthodox, Islamic, Buddhist or Jewish culture, the foundations of the religious cultures of the peoples of Russia or secular ethics. The module is chosen by the student's parents or their legal representative.

      “In the existing versions of the Federal State Educational Standard, we decided to leave everything as it is - teaching in the main confessions,” First Deputy Minister of Education Pavel Zenkovich told RBC.

      Now in the fourth grade, schoolchildren are taught "Fundamentals of Religious Cultures and Secular Ethics." Parents can choose what their child will study: the basics of secular ethics, world religious cultures, the basics of Orthodox culture, the basics of Islamic culture, the basics of Buddhist culture or the basics of Jewish culture.

      In early September, the Ministry of Education presented a draft federal state educational standard without studying individual religions within the framework of primary education. Then the Moscow Patriarchate said that the possibility of choosing the study of the foundations of confessions has proven its effectiveness, and the rejection of such a practice "will harm both citizens, and the state, and the Church."

      On November 6, Minister of Education Olga Vasilyeva, together with Patriarch Kirill, opened the congress of the Society of Russian Literature. There, the minister expressed support for the patriarch's proposal to introduce a course on the study of Russian culture in schools.

      Educational standards in accordance with the instruction of President Vladimir Putin to the government should be updated by December 1.

      Read more at RBC:
      https://www.rbc.ru/society/21/11/2019/5dd51ab99a79477a38b9c311
      1. The comment was deleted.
  15. purple
    purple 23 November 2021 15: 17
    +1
    Quote: SKVichyakow
    Who knows. Is astronomy being taught at school now?

    yes teach
  16. purple
    purple 23 November 2021 15: 19
    +1
    Quote: MaikCG
    It would not hurt to add logic lessons to the school course.

    this is a higher education level .. at school, not everyone will understand just ... some do not want to learn anything at all
  17. gurzuf
    gurzuf 23 November 2021 15: 20
    +9
    To return the Soviet education system, you need to return the Soviet teacher. And this will be more difficult. The Soviet teacher taught, and the modern one provides services.
    1. Clear
      Clear 23 November 2021 22: 52
      +4
      Quote: gurzuf
      The Soviet teacher taught, and the modern one provides services.

      The Soviet teacher also paid attention to the upbringing of schoolchildren (as a person for society, and not vice versa ...)
  18. Kaw
    Kaw 23 November 2021 15: 22
    0
    Yeah, of course. After the schools themselves begin to control the result of their work, education will, of course, dramatically increase its quality. IMHO cheap sabotage populism.
  19. purple
    purple 23 November 2021 15: 22
    -3
    Quote: HAM
    [Center][/ cente


    THIS is how they "teach" now

    Well, yes ... some lack of education does not prevent them from becoming a successful person at all. I know a bunch of examples. Of the latter, one such acquaintance, without education, invested all his money in bitcoins ... now he bought a Lexus and is building a house. smile
    As life shows, education does not always solve sad
  20. rusich
    rusich 23 November 2021 15: 26
    +2
    Bravo. At least one from above spoke out with common sense. It is high time to return to the Soviet education system. The American system for idiots is done.
    1. your1970
      your1970 24 November 2021 07: 33
      -2
      Quote: rusich
      The American system for idiots is done.

      Nuda nuda .... that's why we all (the whole world !!!!) are sitting in Windows ...
      Of course idiots ...
      1. rusich
        rusich 24 November 2021 08: 25
        -2
        It is immediately evident that I studied according to the American system, except for Windows you do not know anything. That on her the light came together like a wedge. You like it, so don't sit with her. Linux is free, widespread, and has many tutorials on the web. I am working on Linux. I like. There are still others
        1. your1970
          your1970 24 November 2021 11: 23
          +1
          Quote: rusich
          I am working on Linux

          And I work in a government agency, and I work on Windows. And there is no prospect of replacing it with anything else ...
          ZY
          Quote: rusich
          It is immediately evident that I studied according to the American system, except for Windows you do not know anything
          personally for you - I studied under Brezhnev, Andropov, Chernenko and Gorbachev ...
          1. rusich
            rusich 24 November 2021 16: 30
            -1
            Modestly, for how many General Secretary studies. smile Mine is much more modest, only under Khrushchev and Brezhnev. But I had to serve with all of the above, except for Khrushchev (I still went to school). He also captured Yeltsin during the service. After the army, he did not work in government agencies, the country did not need it. Part was disbanded, we were on the street. I had to go to earn a piece of bread, so office equipment, operating systems, programming, etc. I mastered it myself. After all, I need, not a government agency
            1. your1970
              your1970 24 November 2021 17: 10
              0
              Quote: rusich
              Modestly, for how many General Secretary studies.
              Am I to blame for the carriage races while I was in school?
              Quote: rusich
              Part was disbanded, we were on the street.
              and my regiment was dispersed

              Quote: rusich
              therefore office equipment, operating systems, programming, etc. I mastered it myself. After all, I need, not a government agency

              Everything except programming had to be mastered by myself. Because it was necessary for the state agency "and does not care" (c) the chief
  21. Kaw
    Kaw 23 November 2021 15: 33
    -6
    And what was so good in Soviet education that is not there now?
    1. alstr
      alstr 23 November 2021 16: 02
      +5
      The system of Soviet education was better in that it did not provide educational services, but taught and (which is not least important) was engaged in upbringing.
      And in terms of content, the difference is that now a bunch of unnecessary and useless subjects like "History of Religions" are given at the expense of the basic ones (native language, mathematics, natural sciences).
  22. Nafanya from the sofa
    Nafanya from the sofa 23 November 2021 15: 45
    +3
    The Soviet education system was primarily determined by the main link - the teacher. It was one of the most respected and highly paid professions. The standard salary for a secondary school teacher was calculated based on a weekly workload of 18 teaching hours. Those. For a salary, the teacher had to teach 18 lessons a week or 3.6 hours a day at work. Therefore, almost everyone worked at 1,5 rates + checking exercise books + classroom management. This is not counting the progressive seniority bonuses.
    As a result, the average teacher received 1.5-1.7 times more than an engineer, not counting all kinds of "goodies" from grateful parents.
    But they also demanded a lot from them. And the teachers taught "conscientiously."
    And now the teacher works according to the principle: "As we are paid, so we work."
    1. Sergej1972
      Sergej1972 23 November 2021 16: 48
      0
      And what then did Pravda, Izvestia, and Uchitelskaya Gazeta sound the alarm in 1983-1984 that teachers, especially men, were leaving school due to low wages?
      1. Nafanya from the sofa
        Nafanya from the sofa 23 November 2021 16: 51
        0
        I won't write anything about Prvda with Izvestia, but I know for sure how much my mother, wife and 2 aunts earned.
        1. Sergej1972
          Sergej1972 23 November 2021 20: 46
          +1
          My mother and two aunts have worked as directors of rural schools for many years, my own and cousin's sisters work as teachers.
      2. Maikcg
        Maikcg 23 November 2021 17: 55
        +1
        Because an engineer in the 80s can be called a beggar, especially in comparison with some kind of store manager. Not to mention the director of the market. laughing It was half a century before that the engineer was an elite, and by the end he had become a lousy intelligentsia.
        1. Ady66
          Ady66 24 November 2021 10: 16
          0
          Generally Engineer. And they were not beggars, if not to compare with the store manager.
      3. your1970
        your1970 24 November 2021 07: 37
        0
        Quote: Sergej1972
        And what then did Pravda, Izvestia, and Uchitelskaya Gazeta sound the alarm in 1983-1984 that teachers, especially men, were leaving school due to low wages?

        Highly paid uh-huh ...
        Quote: Nafanya from the couch
        mom, wife and 2 aunts

        Quote: Sergej1972
        my mother and two aunts have worked as directors of rural schools for many years, my own and cousin's sisters work as teachers.

        Nothing personal - simple confirmation of low wages - only women
        1. Ady66
          Ady66 24 November 2021 10: 18
          0
          300 rubles a month - a school director and this is a lot. Teachers received more, because in addition to the rate, there were additional payments for method literature, for electives and much more.
          1. your1970
            your1970 24 November 2021 11: 32
            -2
            Quote: Ady66
            300 rubles a month - a school director and this is a lot. Teachers received more, because in addition to the rate, there were additional payments for method literature, for electives and much more.

            Dadada ...... only now conduct a survey here - and you will be written that in the schools the men were physical instructors (assailants), NVPshniks (military men) and trudoviks.
            Everything....
            I have never seen a living teacher of a peasant physicist / chemist in the USSR. Only legends - they say, somewhere, far away, there is one such individual in nature ...
            Remember - in any organization, if women prevail and there are few men, this means only one thing - there are low salaries and there is nothing to steal (or one leader steals). Women bite a little bit and they have enough - but men need loot and scope

            Z. The upper level of salaries in the USSR was severely limited, so there were shabbos, dead souls and other machinations - the favorite of OBKhSS.
            1. Ady66
              Ady66 24 November 2021 12: 06
              +1
              In our school, there were men history teachers and there were four of them (sequentially), they worked quite well. The first retired, the second was a passing one, having a cultural institute behind him, the third and fourth continued to teach. If women prevail, this does not mean the amount of money, it speaks of a gender stereotype. The managers of the schools quite successfully stole for themselves, although they were mostly women. The same can be said about store managers. And don't tell me about the salaries of the poor Soviet teachers. They were larger than those of novice engineers. I'm not talking about salaries, but about earned ones, since teachers had to work for 1,5 or even 2 rates. THEY WERE NOT ENOUGH. Mom was the headmaster of the school, so I know firsthand. And please enlighten about the top salary, what do you mean? There was a UNIFIED salary scale in each industry.
              1. your1970
                your1970 24 November 2021 14: 20
                0
                Quote: Ady66
                If women prevail, this does not mean the amount of money, it speaks of a gender stereotype.

                I repeat - this is not a gender stereotype, this is a fact. As soon as the easy money and the scale go away, women immediately creep in. A couple of times I observed the opposite process - when the men abruptly squeezed out all the women from the department that became corrupt in a year and quickly fled when it three years later became zero in terms of bribes. And again women came.
                Quote: Ady66
                the salaries of poor Soviet teachers. They were larger than those of novice engineers. I'm not talking about salaries, but about earned ones, since teachers had to work for 1,5 or even 2 rates. THEY WERE NOT ENOUGH.

                So IF (but this is fantastic !!!!!!!!!!!) and they would have a lot of money - they would not write about the lack of accounting records in the newspapers (and you too !!!).
                When I entered the MIIVT in 1987 with a competition of 5 people - there was a competition in ped. 0,7 people
                ETKS was, than the limitation of the upper bar was established, I don’t remember for the life of me.
                I remember that my father, being the head of the construction office, took a brigade of Sabbath workers and 5-7 dead souls. Otherwise, they got a penny ...
                CORNER so that, but he had nowhere to go (he did not take a penny from them)
                1. Ady66
                  Ady66 25 November 2021 07: 43
                  0
                  It may be that you had such a competition in ped, but my wife had difficulty in mathematics faculty passed through the competition. there were many medalists. This is in Sverdlovsk. Regarding the shabashniki, it is clear that they will not work for a salary, they do not go to earn a long ruble for the summer. My uncle from Krasnodar rode to Kazakhstan to have a Sabbath, then he stopped by to visit us in the Urals. Denznakami littered))). In general, a guy from the north))). I don’t remember how much the masons received, it seems the price was for a cube of masonry, but not high, and therefore dead souls. In the USSR, if they lived honestly, no one was particularly flamboyant, but no one was in poverty. I worked at the plant as a 3-grade instrumentation mechanic (there was a break in my studies at the university, what a sin - academic success, laziness, girls, etc.) the salary was 120 rubles, in the 4th grade - 140, engineers received a little more than 180-200 rubles, but again, everything depended on the industry in which you work.
                  1. your1970
                    your1970 25 November 2021 10: 16
                    0
                    Quote: Ady66
                    Maybe you had such a competition in the ped,
                    I went to Moscow to enroll lol lol lol there was such a competition in ped
                    Father, being the head of the PMK, received 212 rubles

                    Quote: Nafanya from the couch
                    As a result, the average teacher received 1.5-1.7 times more than an engineer, not counting all kinds of "goodies" from grateful parents.

                    That is, according to these calculations, teachers were expected to receive 400 rubles lol
                    The scrapers from the father received 300- 320, and it was considered a VERY good salary.
                    Compare work from dawn to dawn in the heat +45 in dust, oil and dirt with the ability to wash only at night and teaching ...
                    If teachers received at least 200, there would be a queue of peasants
                    But in reality - military men (pension + salary), physical trainers from former athletes - losers and trudoviks (in the mass drunks - who are already at the plant in any way)
                    1. Ady66
                      Ady66 25 November 2021 12: 44
                      0
                      200 and received: 1,5 - 2 rates + electives (could be on paper) + classroom management + for the purchase of methodology, etc. The physical instructor, the trudovik and the military instructor, by definition, worked for one rate, therefore the salaries are low. In the UPI, at the engineering-economic, chemical-technological, guys were also weakly present, at the injection, for example, there were 1 people per stream. The specialties were not prestigious for the guys (including teachers). My father was the chief engineer at the construction of mines SUBR (Severouralsky bauxite mine) ZP - 6.
                      1. your1970
                        your1970 25 November 2021 15: 37
                        0
                        Quote: Ady66
                        The physical instructor, the labor worker and the military instructor, by definition, worked for one rate, and therefore the salaries are low. V
                        Why did it happen? We had 2 physical students - led sections + both were class teachers. NVPShnik - he had enough with a pension. Workers usually led circles of all kinds of modeling.
                        That is, according to your theory - "cut ??? No, the dough is unmeasured !!!!" (c) anecdote
                        But at the same time, there is a wild understaffing in schools and a low competition in the pedagogical institute ...
                        This does not happen even in the USSR ...
                    2. Ady66
                      Ady66 25 November 2021 13: 25
                      0
                      "apart from all kinds of" buns "from grateful parents"
                      There were no "buns" at that time, except for flowers for September 1 and sweets for the birthday of the class teacher.
                2. Ady66
                  Ady66 25 November 2021 13: 22
                  0
                  I was demobilized in 1987 and recovered for the 2nd year of the RTF UPI (expelled from the first year), I don’t know why I was reinstated for the 2nd, I probably liked the deputy dean, and I managed to pay off my debts before deduction. ))))
  23. Ros 56
    Ros 56 23 November 2021 15: 47
    0
    As a graduate of school exactly 50 years ago, all limbs are FOR, because he began to get acquainted with a madhouse called general education in the 80s from the textbooks of my students, when they took them with them to competitions in order to read and prepare for exams in their free time.
  24. Split
    Split 23 November 2021 15: 52
    +1
    "Not worse than the Soviet one, as it allows you to reveal the numerous talents of students." An example is the result of schoolchildren of the Russian Federation at the Olympiad in astronomy. The Russian team won a record 10 awards including 8 gold

    At 98, I entered the physics department of Moscow State University, the astronomy department ... with an honorable mention! Personally, Anatoly Zasov went to see Sadovnichy to be invited (as far as I know, I am the only one who did this). To be honest ... at school I was in grade 11 only 2 months. It's not about the Unified State Exam ... but the fact that a person wants to study science and it doesn't matter if this is the Unified State Exam or another.
    Now, 24 years later, I fully watch all the vidos ... although Popov Seryozha hit a popmeh ... we even with him ... under one of the vidos (he was my seminarian at 98-00)
    Actually, I did it thanks to the solution of the problem, what will happen if everyone denominates 1000 times, and all the constants remain the same. There everyone wrote about orbits, etc ... I wrote only 10 lines and didn’t do it for 3 hours .... Winner of the 2nd round at 98. I just knew nuclear physics ... electrostatic forces are the square of the distance, and nuclear forces are cubed and just everything will explode. Not one person from the SAI could say that I was wrong
    1. Maikcg
      Maikcg 23 November 2021 17: 58
      +1
      10 term

      Can you tell us for non-nerds? Person I am terribly far from astronomy, but I am interested.
      1. Split
        Split 23 November 2021 18: 08
        +1
        The topic is quite extensive. In general, roughly ... electrostatic repulsion decreases as the square of the distance, but they are held back by a strong interaction ... which is very strange ... the further, the stronger it is. Therefore, when space is reduced by 1k, you have one force in the square power, and the other in the cube ... therefore, the strong interaction will become 1000 times stronger, which will lead to the collapse of protons and neutrons, i.e. in fact, all matter will turn into black holes
        1. Sergey Aleksandrovich
          Sergey Aleksandrovich 4 December 2021 23: 51
          0
          And why then astronomers actually capitulated to the new chronology of Fomenko-Nosovsky and no one else had the knowledge to confirm or refute their deciphering of the zodiacs? Where is the vaunted astronomical knowledge, precisely the mass one? In fact, they are not.
    2. Mikhail m
      Mikhail m 23 November 2021 19: 23
      +1
      Quote: Split
      what happens if everyone denominates 1000 times, and all the constants remain the same

      There will be a new reality in which there will be no room for stupid questions. In any case, the system will strive for balance in one form or another. By the way, in the word "remain" in modern reality there is no place for a soft sign. And the letter ё also does not hurt to use it for its intended purpose. For between "all drank" and "all drank" the difference is much more significant than between hypothetical realities.
      1. Split
        Split 23 November 2021 19: 29
        0
        Well, such a task was ... what made me a student of the Physics Faculty of Moscow State University at 98 and the winner of the 2nd round of the Olympiad
        1. Mikhail m
          Mikhail m 23 November 2021 19: 32
          0
          In those days it was still fashionable to talk about what would happen if the friction force disappeared. Without wondering that there will be no one to talk about it.
          1. Split
            Split 23 November 2021 19: 40
            0
            At that time, dark matter was still a theory .... Hublov's "deep images" were then still unique belay
            1. Mikhail m
              Mikhail m 23 November 2021 19: 46
              0
              This time was marked by the development of string theory. And dark matter is still a theory.
              1. Split
                Split 23 November 2021 19: 49
                0
                Dark matter is confirmed theoretically even at the level of rotation of the milky way. According to string theory and M theory, 11/27 dimensional signs are more than
                1. Mikhail m
                  Mikhail m 23 November 2021 19: 55
                  0
                  Quote: Split
                  According to string theory and M theory, 11/27 dimensional signs are more than

                  I would like a clearer presentation of thought.
                  Quote: Split
                  theoretically

                  And, if possible, be careful with the spelling. The eye cuts.
                  1. Split
                    Split 23 November 2021 20: 01
                    0
                    String theory implies only the existence of 11 dimensions and 27 for the M branched theory.
                    For dark matter, the problem is in the rotation of our galaxy and not only ... when the middle rotates like the edges. Actually, this was the reason for its occurrence.
                    1. Mikhail m
                      Mikhail m 23 November 2021 20: 04
                      +1
                      And yet this is still only beautiful mathematics.
                      1. Split
                        Split 23 November 2021 20: 10
                        0
                        Yes, because to test it ... you need tools that can have a Planck length of -35 degrees .... I don't think it will be possible in the next 100 years. But string theory is mesmerizing
  25. Morituri68
    Morituri68 23 November 2021 15: 54
    +5
    And at the same time, Gref and the company would be imprisoned so that they would not impose an "education" plan hostile to Russia ...
  26. Sad235
    Sad235 23 November 2021 15: 56
    -4
    I just can't understand one thing, but who and what does not like in the exam.? How many critics have seen, for example, a year-long math assignment? I say so confidently, my wife, an honored teacher of Russia in mathematics, has been teaching 6-10 grades in mathematics for the last 11 years. coaching.? The usual educational planning process Directly preparation in the 90th quarter But one advantage of the UGE, the ability of smart children to enter a good institution and this is the main thing
    1. Shahno
      Shahno 23 November 2021 16: 03
      0
      For example, I have a strange opinion.
      I took both TOEFL and GRE in due time .. And also passed the regular exams at SSAU, after transferring to MIPT.

      It seemed to me that the most difficult thing was GRE (especially verbal).
    2. nobody75
      nobody75 23 November 2021 19: 17
      0
      How many critics have seen, for example, a year-long math assignment?

      I have seen.
      I just can't understand one thing, but who and what does not like in the exam.?

      First, the exam in mathematics is plagiarism. Open the collection of problems for university applicants for 1984 and you will find all the problems that FIPI uses for "measurements". What can be measured using the didactic material of the 70s - 80s, when there was no USE in the project?
      Secondly, the problems of profile mathematics in the school course were not fully understood in Soviet times, and now they are not understood.
      Regular curriculum planning process Directly preparation in the 4th quarter

      Are you sure that your Dear spouse is a Teacher, not a head teacher?
      They know only two phrases in Russian:
      1 "write ktp"
      2 "fill out the journal"
      Sincerely
      1. DrRey
        DrRey 24 November 2021 08: 03
        0
        What is plagiarism? They make money on plagiarism, hemorrhoids earn on the Kims of the Unified State Exam.
        1. nobody75
          nobody75 24 November 2021 08: 36
          0
          Does all FIPI work on a voluntary basis? Where are the new didactic materials?
          Sincerely
      2. Sad235
        Sad235 24 November 2021 08: 32
        -5
        I can give my wife's phone number, call at 15.15 She will just end the 7th non-stop lesson in the 11th grade Take an interest True, do not be offended if you are sent And about plagiarism It is difficult for me, a graduate of the command school and academy, to argue with a graduate of the Moscow Institute of Physics and Technology But I know for sure that mathematics is a conservative science and 2 + 2 = 4 will always be, therefore, unconscious plagiarism will always be For nothing, perhaps the Nobel Prize in mathematics is not given
        1. nobody75
          nobody75 24 November 2021 11: 00
          +1
          I can give my wife's phone number, call at 15.15 She will just end the 7th non-stop lesson in 11th grade Take an interest True, do not be offended if you are sent

          So it’s for sure the head teacher ... Thank you, I won’t call her - she will also need to write a "working program". Please calm her down yourself after the 7th lesson (which, by the way, should not be in the schedule that the "commissions" show it and not. Oh, I'll get to her ZuP to find out how the 7th lesson is there pay).
          But I know for sure that mathematics is a conservative science and 2 + 2 = 4 will always be

          To paraphrase John Maynard Keynes: "twice two is four. But that's not certain." There is still fuzzy logic ... As a graduate of the academy, you will learn about it by the middle of next year. Personally, I really do not want this - I am for world peace!
          For nothing that the Nobel Prize in mathematics is not given

          It's just that one of the mathematicians succumbed to the provocation and called someone else's wife - Nobel's wife ...
          therefore unconscious plagiarism will always be

          With this logic, Philip Kirkorov is the "king of remakes"!
          There are only 7 notes!
          Sincerely
          1. Sad235
            Sad235 24 November 2021 12: 48
            -5
            Your logic is strange. If a person has 7 lessons, it means he is a head teacher. Have you ever been to school.? I doubt something. Otherwise, you would know that most of the schools have switched to a five-day period and therefore 7 lessons for high school students are already the norm. About Nobel's wife, this parable is already 100 years old. you don’t need to wave your erudition, but especially threaten to get to someone Just stay at school for at least a month, cook there and you will not have time for theories that will come true by the middle of summer (don’t consider everyone as bad as yourself)
            1. nobody75
              nobody75 24 November 2021 14: 11
              0
              Why should I swim in the mud?
              Let it be known to you that there is such a procedure as accreditation.
              And for her they prepare (buy for money from "experts") a complete package of documents, including a schedule. Therefore, what you call the "norm" is "filkin's letter". Bastrykin was right about this question ...
              And at the expense of abstract science ...
              Can you explain why the task of planimetry on the written exam for admission to the Mechmat of Moscow State University in 1979:
              1 Prevented the entry of children from the hinterland
              2 Contributed to corruption
              3 Did not meet the state standard
              The same task in the profile part of the exam:
              1 Allows children from the provinces to enter the leading universities of the country
              2 Eliminates corruption
              3 Complies with state standards of the nth generation
              Sincerely
              1. Sad235
                Sad235 24 November 2021 15: 17
                -5
                I can only say one thing, that your expression Walks in the mud, which implies your attitude to the school Shows what kind of person you are Association school and mud.? It's wild for me To communicate with you there is no desire Free
                1. nobody75
                  nobody75 24 November 2021 21: 18
                  0
                  Good luck with the "cooking"
              2. Sergey Aleksandrovich
                Sergey Aleksandrovich 4 December 2021 23: 38
                0
                It is very difficult to communicate with a committed person, but I will try. The system of cutting off children from the hinterland existed, and it was quite simple. There were special physics and mathematics schools, located in the center or close, the selection there was both according to the place of residence and according to the position in the society of the parents. In schools with a mathematical bias, they taught methods for solving specific problems that were not taught in secondary schools. For example, there is a center of mass method that was not taught in high schools. Screening was carried out in this way at the earliest stages. Now, you can find anything on the Internet, but then running around the libraries did not always help. In the capital's universities, it was the applicants who were waiting for unusual problems with unusual methods of solution.
  27. ximkim
    ximkim 23 November 2021 15: 56
    +1
    Apparently he wants to retire early.
    Putin will not forgive such a statement to Bastrykin.
    1. hhurik
      hhurik 23 November 2021 16: 29
      0
      The "elder" will retire only with the darkest.
    2. alystan
      alystan 24 November 2021 14: 40
      -1
      And if we assume that this is an order from Putin himself, who is "ashamed" of his words about galoshes, and he launched a trial balloon in the form of Bastrykin? Then I see two possible scenarios for the development of events:
      1. Good luck, the people accepted Bastrykin's words with a bang and then the guarantor praises him and gives the appropriate instructions to the CM. And of course he will take the laurels for himself.
      2. Failure, Bastrykin collects his things in his office and is sent to an honorable pension.
      That is, I am a little less categorical than you. And, nevertheless, I am for option 1, which appeals to me more. Not even against the laurels that will go to the guarantor!
  28. Krasnoyarsk
    Krasnoyarsk 23 November 2021 15: 56
    +3
    = One of the Russian schoolchildren - Maxim Permyakov from the Republic of Mordovia, became the absolute winner of the astronomical Olympiad, which was held this year =
    All this is certainly good, but the presence of such talented people does not mean a good education system. It cannot be said that there was a good education system in Ingushetia just because Lomonosov was there.
    It is important here that the general level of education of the people grows from year to year.
    It's like in sports - it's good if there are world achievements - more, further, faster.
    Much more important is the nationwide physical education, mass sports, not for some higher achievements, but for the health of the nation. Those. achievements for professional athletes, and for the people - physical education.
  29. Glagol1
    Glagol1 23 November 2021 15: 58
    -1
    I agree with Mr. Bastrykin. It's time to go back. You might think about keeping some elements of the exam partially in the composition of the tests, but on the whole the idea is correct. Now, when the Internet at any second will tell you what you forgot, or what you didn’t know at all, it is important to teach children how to think, and not to hammer out egesh matrices.
    1. alystan
      alystan 23 November 2021 16: 33
      0
      Bastrykin is first of all a comrade in a tunic, and he calls for the return of the Soviet education system, and not the tsarist one with the gentlemen and the rabble.
  30. tihonmarine
    tihonmarine 23 November 2021 15: 59
    0
    The state itself did everything to switch to the Western educational option

    The main inspirer of the Education 2021 program is Peskov.
  31. alystan
    alystan 23 November 2021 16: 04
    0
    Bastrykin:
    This has always been recognized by everyone.

    But Putin only remembers and recognizes galoshes. ))
    Bastrykin is right and well done! I am for.
    Bastrykin was instructed to immediately begin "cleaning up the Soros stables", which replaced all Soviet textbooks with don't understand what! The second task is to drive through the lie detector all officials (especially from the Ministry of Education, etc.) and the teaching staff who were on foreign grants.
    This will be enough to start the revival of the native education system!
  32. Million
    Million 23 November 2021 16: 05
    +2
    The only plus of the exam is impartiality.
    A student from the village, having typed the required number of points, can enter any university.
    1. Sergey Kulikov_3
      Sergey Kulikov_3 23 November 2021 16: 44
      +3
      So this hinders the Bastyrkins, you can buy the examination commission, but with the Unified State Exam all the rules are toughened, you will not get off with 25 rams :)
  33. cool.anatoliy576
    cool.anatoliy576 23 November 2021 16: 07
    +2
    Wait again for educational reform
  34. fa2998
    fa2998 23 November 2021 16: 42
    +1
    The head of the Investigative Committee has nothing else to do in this country? Or is he thinking of moving into the ministers of education? Big stars-became generalists-can teach janitors how to work? hi
  35. Alexander X
    Alexander X 23 November 2021 18: 18
    0
    Still, Bastrykin gave instructions to initiate criminal cases against those who so stubbornly broke the classical education system and imposed a "guessing game." Under article 275 of the RF Criminal Code "Treason". That would be great.
  36. SHURUM -BURUM
    SHURUM -BURUM 23 November 2021 18: 24
    +3
    Quote: Zhan
    and the Soviet school, gave a harmonious all-round education, taught to work with literature, think, reason

    At the same time, all our generation then had a great desire to learn. And many, before leaving school, already knew who they wanted to become. And the desire to become what, it was not imposed, it came by itself, because when it was impossible to buy a lot of things, the guys made everything for themselves. I remember that we went to the school workshop with pleasure and with great interest, sharpened from wood on real lathes, and when we grew up, we assembled amplifiers ourselves, made electric guitar boards out of thick plywood. And color music in general was a craze! Now the desire to do something with your own hands is completely exterminated by modern pragmatism. Why waste time when you can buy. I am not calling for scarcity. But for some reason, in those years of our youth, we grew up faster. It was a joy to do something with your own hands. I do not believe that even if the reanimation of the semblance of the Soviet education system takes place, everything will work out by itself. The modern generation of adolescents has a completely non-Soviet morality, view of life and a goal in life.
  37. valera75
    valera75 23 November 2021 19: 06
    -1
    According to Bastrykin, the Soviet education system was the best in the world.
    there is even nothing to add. they took western shit and now they don’t know how to get rid of it. Or rather, they don’t want to. There’s a generation of UGE managers who are weird at the factories, so people knock out packs from the factories because all the production workers have survived. In Tomsk, the Tomlesdrev enterprise quit in August 127 people in the repair service are wildly lacking in personnel and for 2 years they did not accept anyone. But there was a time when these victims of the Unified State Exam were yelling at us, so don’t fuss at you like you outside the queue. They destroyed the well-functioning schools of vocational schools, technical schools and developed a generation of stupid managers and after turnips they scratch why there will be no one in Komsomolsk to build ships or in St. healthy bulls are standing. It is sad that this is getting worse and worse and everything will only get worse. The point of no return has been passed and if it can be returned in 75 years at least. hiccup. It's a pity!
    1. DrRey
      DrRey 24 November 2021 07: 59
      +1
      And what does the USE have to do with it? Unwillingness to study, but being a prostitute or a bandit is from the 90s, and this is now being broadcast to children by parents who grew up on these installations. Why should they study - if you can be a blogger without education and have everything?
  38. Egorych811
    Egorych811 23 November 2021 19: 17
    -3
    The first adequate and patriotic official in the last 30 years !!!
  39. The comment was deleted.
  40. Oorfene Juice and his wooden soldiers
    Oorfene Juice and his wooden soldiers 23 November 2021 19: 21
    +1
    Why did it suddenly bombard him so? There are good specialists, but the current system is based on negative selection; cronyism, nepotism, fellowship, corruption, they throw overboard the talented and capable, of whom hundreds of thousands go abroad. Competitions for civil service are pure profonation, a stranger will not get there, with rare exceptions. Its own, this is a gray beiniativny shobla, which is capable of rhetoric, deceit and theft. We have created this system ourselves, so take it.
  41. The comment was deleted.
  42. Sadok
    Sadok 23 November 2021 19: 30
    -1
    as soon as the pan refuses the Czech residence permit, we will immediately sweep away all this heresy with a swift jack
  43. RoTTor
    RoTTor 23 November 2021 19: 46
    +1
    In the USSR, absolutely ALL education - from nurseries to doctoral studies, was a single well-thought-out planned STATE POLICY,
    Now it is just a business, often a dirty one, the so-called "educational.services".
    Thanks for this to the Western advisers and their native lackeys-grant-suckers, who, in order to idiotize our people, vigorously denigrated and diligently destroyed Soviet education in such a way,
    that now we cannot find a cadre of teachers of THAT school, with that morality and position of a teacher and a teacher in society.
    Bismarck understood that too ...
    1. Erich
      Erich 23 November 2021 20: 42
      -3
      Yeah, and then the carriers of "The World's Best Education System" charged cans of water in front of the TV ...
  44. Adrey
    Adrey 23 November 2021 20: 08
    -1
    What was it? PR is that? Have you started to forget?
    Changing the system now is just a disaster. They tortured me for a long time, but still they came to something (my son passed the exam this year, entered the university. From his comments, I also have to think, not just memorize). Once again, break it down and you can forget about education in general for 50 years
  45. Erich
    Erich 23 November 2021 20: 41
    -2
    This has always been recognized by everyone.


    Who and when?
  46. Reserve buildbat
    Reserve buildbat 23 November 2021 21: 00
    0
    "In particular, Rosobrnadzor believes that the Unified State Exam has long proved the effectiveness of selecting young people for study in higher educational institutions."
    This is enough to disband this thieves' office and put its leadership in prison for a long time. Supporters of the Unified State Exam are either enemies of the country, or victims of this very Unified State Exam, that is, individuals who absolutely cannot think, compare and analyze.
    And schoolchildren became winners not "thanks", but in spite of!
    1. DrRey
      DrRey 24 November 2021 07: 54
      -1
      Two higher educations, both with honors - for the Unified State Exam. Patriot, I didn’t take the exam as a student, but I do it all the time as a teacher. To pass the exam in computer science, you need to be able not only to think, but to think creatively and apply a huge amount of knowledge from related subjects. When did you take the exam yourself, if you did? Go to the website fipi.ru, download a demo version on any subject and try to score at least three points in the allotted time. Consider Multiple Choice Questions Remaining
  47. Ural resident
    Ural resident 23 November 2021 21: 28
    0
    Even I have a feeling that they will remove it in the near future for "amateur performance", eh ..
    1. Sergej1972
      Sergej1972 24 November 2021 14: 50
      0
      Bastrykin is a much more influential figure and close to the President in comparison with the ministers of education, science and higher education, especially in comparison with the leadership of Rosobrnadzor.
  48. BUSEYN
    BUSEYN 23 November 2021 22: 01
    +3
    Friends. As long as there is an exam, there is at least some kind of education. Otherwise, the children whose parents have money will be excellent students .. Who was the teacher in the USSR? And who is now? I'm not talking about salary. The Unified State Exam now somehow determines the quality of education. Look and compare the results of essays, tests and USE. By canceling the exam, everyone will be excellent students. Why the heck to be hunchbacked in a class where teachers are sent far and long not only by parents, but also by the students themselves right in the classroom. And Bastrykin and others - they live in a different state. Children study abroad. Forgive him.
    1. Victorio
      Victorio 24 November 2021 00: 40
      -1
      Quote: BUSEYN
      Friends. As long as there is an exam, there is at least some kind of education. Otherwise, the children whose parents have money will be excellent students .. Who was the teacher in the USSR? And who is now? I'm not talking about salary. The Unified State Exam now somehow determines the quality of education. Look and compare the results of essays, tests and USE. By canceling the exam, everyone will be excellent students. Why the heck to be hunchbacked in a class where teachers are sent far and long not only by parents, but also by the students themselves right in the classroom. And Bastrykin and others - they live in a different state. Children study abroad. Forgive him.

      ===
      maybe so. but there will be knowledge, not the result of the exam
  49. 7 poplar
    7 poplar 23 November 2021 23: 49
    -1
    Well, at least someone's head started working !!!!
  50. the warrior of the working class
    the warrior of the working class 23 November 2021 23: 54
    +2
    The exam is understandable. What to do with it?


    Appendix № 1

    Requirements for the design of the design (research) work submitted to the school conference ...

    The research paper presented at the conference should have the character of a scientific research. The project work presented at the conference should have concrete practical value.

    Accepted poster works, decorated on a poster (Whatman paper) A1, the layout is horizontal.
    The work should contain:

    • Title of the report (topic);
    • FI study (in full) and the leader, class, school;
    • Purpose and objectives of the study, relevance, hypothesis;
    • The main content of the work: illustrations for the report, graphs, formulas, tables, photographs, other information that the author considers important for evaluating the work, contact information about the author (s);
    • Results;
    • Conclusions.

    Time limit for presentations: up to 5 minutes are given to defend poster presentations, including time for answering questions from members of the expert group and everyone else. During this time, participants demonstrate the ability to concisely and clearly state the essence of their work. During this time, the speaker indicates the goals, objectives, relevance and main conclusions about the work done, the stages of work. Perhaps the use of visual aids, posters, tables, technical aids, etc.

    The text should contain concentrated information from the report. There should not be a lot of text - a maximum of 30% of the poster. The ideal option is clearly defined goals and results of your work.

    Drawings, tables and photographs take up most of the space on the poster. This is a reference material for answering questions during a poster session.

    https://www.yaplakal.com/forum7/topic2352297.html


    Follow the link to continue the assignment.

    "Dear parents! I am sending the material for the preparation of design and research work. If you have any questions, please write to me in elzhur.


    This is a message from the class teacher 1 "I" of the class of school №57, Kaliningrad.
    I read the forum. So everywhere in the country. A curtain...
    1. Zaurbek
      Zaurbek 24 November 2021 11: 01
      0
      Moreover, they do not teach anything in the classroom ... everything is taken at home and in the classroom, only independent and test work ...