Military Review

We lived with this name, won and died

207

Isn't it time to change names?



By the last decade of November 1961, almost all cities and villages, other settlements, collective farms, state farms, industrial enterprises, universities, schools, cultural centers, parks, sanatoriums and even mountain peaks awarded the name of Stalin were renamed in the USSR.

And on November 29, 1961, the last significant Stalinist object was renamed in the country: the Stalinskaya metro station of the Arbatsko-Pokrovskaya line became Semyonovskaya. This required the corresponding decision of the Moscow City Council and the Moscow City Committee of the CPSU of November 1, 1961.

On the morning of that day, the former Stalinskaya, sensibly closed for several days, was opened to passengers. Having previously removed - a week before - all the Stalinist symbols at the station. In total, over 1956 thousand objects with Stalinist toponymy were renamed across the country in April 1961 - November 25.

As well as removed the Stalinist busts and bas-reliefs that remained in some places in the country after the XX Congress of the CPSU (February 1956). But the streets named after Stalin in Georgia are preserved in the cities of Gori, Borjomi, Kaspi, Tsnori and Chkhorotsku. As for the city that bore the name of the leader of the peoples - Stalingrad, although it became Volgograd on November 10, 1961, much that is associated with Stalin exists there today.

And nothing is forgotten there


We lived with this name, won and died

Not surprisingly, almost no one paid any attention abroad to the hasty renaming of the city in the USSR, which gave the name to the battle that radically changed the course of World War II. Objects named after Stalingrad from 1945-1947 still remain in a number of countries.

Recall that in France they are in at least fifteen cities, including Paris; in Italy - in Bologna and Milan; in Belgium - in Brussels; as well as in the Czech Republic and Slovakia (If your name is Stalingrad).

They exist in other countries as well, but information about them is clearly in short supply. At the same time, in France, Great Britain, Belgium, Austria, India, not to mention China - objects not only "Stalingrad" are preserved, but even the name of Stalin himself (Stalin's posthumous fate - the secret became clear).


General Charles de Gaulle, characterizing Khrushchev in 1962, very accurately reflected the essence of his anti-Stalinism:

“He is a cunning little man, and he wants to show everywhere and to everyone that he is radically different from Stalin. But, defaming his great predecessor and trying to eliminate the memory of him, Khrushchev discredits the USSR and even more so - the communist ideology. But Stalin did not become a thing of the past: he disappeared into the future. "

You can’t say more precisely ...

And it is no coincidence that we have no doubts about this, by now in the Russian Federation, streets named after Stalin have been restored in more than 20 cities of the country. Mainly in the North Caucasus (Dagestan, North Ossetia, Kabardino-Balkaria) and in Siberia (Novosibirsk, Yakutsk, Mirny). In most of them, the old ones have been restored or new Stalinist busts have been installed.

As for the Stalingrad street toponymy restored in the cities of the Russian Federation, according to the latest TASS data (2021), it is available in Barnaul, Sevastopol, Simferopol, Kerch, Volgograd, Volzhsky, Yoshkar-Ola, Korolev, Novosibirsk. Local and central authorities did not dare to ignore the relevant initiatives of the local community.

However, let us remind you that only at the end of 2004 - on the eve of the 60th anniversary of the Great Victory - on the parapet made of mountain burgundy porphyry near the Tomb of the Unknown Soldier in the Alexander Garden, the name of one of the plates of the hero cities - "Volgograd" - was changed to " Stalingrad ".


Photo by: kremlin.ru

It should be noted that the previous name was actually the original - that is, from May 8, 1967, when a memorial was opened at the Kremlin wall in the Alexander Garden. The then leadership of the USSR, which removed Khrushchev from all posts, nevertheless also did not dare to so clearly "remind" fellow citizens of Stalingrad ...

In the order of the President of Russia Vladimir Putin dated July 23, 2004 on changing the name of that part of the parapet, it was noted that such a decision had been made,

“Taking into account the significance of the Battle of Stalingrad, which marked a radical turning point in the Great Patriotic War, paying tribute to the heroism of the defenders of Stalingrad and in order to preserve stories Of the Russian state ".

Meanwhile, the role of Stalingrad in World War II is still being paid tribute to abroad, for example, in France: one example of this is the publication in the French "Le Point" of May 18, 2021:

“... In Stalingrad, the Russians turned into an army of avengers. The fighters were encouraged by their families, relatives: "If you let the Germans in, your own mother will curse you." Having suffered hundreds of thousands of losses, Stalin's army at the end of 1942 turned the tide and defeated the Nazis. Thanks to the fury of Russian soldiers, the formidable German military machine, which had not known defeat since the beginning of the world war, was defeated in Stalingrad. "

Plus de-Stalinization of the whole country


Stalingrad itself remains Volgograd, and Moscow's Volgogradsky Avenue is the same Volgogradsky. Although avenues, bas-reliefs and streets named after Volgograd, instead of Stalingrad ones, are nowhere to be found abroad and are not expected ...

The decision to complete the de-Stalinization of Soviet geography as soon as possible was sanctioned by the 1961nd Congress of the CPSU (October 188416). At the same congress, we recall, it was ordered, simultaneously with such "events", to remove the Stalinist sarcophagus from the mausoleum near the Kremlin wall (see https://topwar.ru/XNUMX-tak-oni-vynosili-stalina.html).

However, in Georgia, the de-Stalinization was carried out with caution for obvious reasons: two-thirds of the objects previously named Stalinist were renamed there. To this day, Stalin's house-museums in Gori and Batumi have survived, and, for example, the Stalin embankment in Tbilisi was preserved until 2003 inclusive.

A successful sculptural image of Stalin in Gurjaani (southeastern Georgia) still exists; as well as the bust of the leader of the peoples in Batumi - it still stands at the entrance to the house-museum of Stalin.


Photo: I. Ivanov / wikimedia.org

In this regard, the advertising information of the "Sale-tur" travel agency (Russian Federation) from 2021 is quite remarkable:

“The Stalin House Museum in Batumi is an interesting institution. Stalin lived in this house for only a few months in 1901 and 1902, when he helped found the communist organization of road workers and started publishing illegal newspapers. Things that belonged to Stalin are preserved in this museum: even the tattered towel and the bed in which he slept are preserved.

The only monumental monument to Stalin that survived on the territory of the former Soviet Union after de-Stalinization was located in the center of his hometown of Gori. He remained there until mid-2010 inclusive.


Photo: Vladimir Varfolomeev / flickr.com

The Georgian authorities, which changed with enviable regularity, remembered the mass protection of this monument in 1956, 1961, 1963, 1989 and 1992, when they intended to destroy it with the help of troops.

However, in 2010, the monument, although they did not dare to destroy it, was moved to the Gori house-museum of Stalin. There, by the way, there is another monument to the long-term leader of the USSR - but of a smaller size.
Author:
Photos used:
proza.ru, saletur.ru, sputnik-georgia.com, pinterst.ru
207 comments
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  1. svp67
    svp67 25 November 2021 10: 10
    +38
    In our history, there are two not quite rightly "forgotten personalities" of the country's leaders: Ivan the Terrible and Stalin. One is diligently "forgotten" by the ROC, the second by the Communist Party and the liberals ...
    1. tatra
      tatra 25 November 2021 10: 19
      +7
      Yes, the enemies of the communists who seized the RSFSR have no positive history of their country and people at all.
      By their post-Soviet period, they had nothing to do with it, they slandered the Soviet period to justify their capture of the RSFSR, the centuries-old period of the Russian State before the October Revolution begins and ends with their falsified rule of the last Russian monarch - again - for the sake of justifying their capture of the RSFSR.
      1. paul3390
        paul3390 25 November 2021 10: 42
        +27
        There is an easy way to identify the real ruler from an old American movie ..

        We all know how our grandfathers stood up to their deaths under the machine guns "For the Motherland! For Stalin!" .. Try it on yourself. And as soon as you find someone with whose name you would be ready to do the same, then it’s him. Real. Don't even hesitate. For no matter how many years have passed, Comrade Stalin has always been and will be the standard. It is with him that everyone will be compared.

        And now - which of you is ready to climb with a grenade under the tank "For Putin, for dear capitalism"? That's the same .. For the noneshnye are not real. They are not worth fighting for. Dying for a thief who doesn't care about us and the country is, to say the least, a strange occupation.
        1. Lech from Android.
          Lech from Android. 25 November 2021 10: 55
          +1
          Remember how the pilot Roman Filippov died heroically.
          1. paul3390
            paul3390 25 November 2021 11: 00
            +14
            So what? The question is about the mass character of the phenomenon. Do you seriously think that now - if something happens, the people will fight for Putin just like our grandfathers for Stalin ??
            1. svp67
              svp67 25 November 2021 12: 48
              .
              Quote: paul3390
              Do you seriously think that now - if something happens, the people will fight for Putin just like our grandfathers for Stalin ??

              Do you seriously think that many went to that war with such shouts, especially at the first stage? You are funny ...
              You know, on March 01, 1942, the General Staff of the Red Army could not find traces of the stay of almost 5 conscripted into the Red Army and the RKKF ...
              So, I think even today, the one who is ready to defend his land, family, loved ones will do it, and who is not, he will then and today will be in the column "the place of stay is unknown." They, what then, what now, that they would ALWAYS find a reason not to fight and no matter who would be in power
              1. aleksejkabanets
                aleksejkabanets 25 November 2021 13: 07
                +18
                Quote: svp67
                You know, on May 01, 1942, the General Staff of the Red Army could not find traces of the stay of almost 5 drafted into the Red Army and the RKKF ...

                Is this from a series about 60 million people shot in the gulag? Can I have a link to these documents? By mid-1941, the total number of the armed forces of the USSR was slightly more than five million people, and by the summer of 1942 they had about 11 million people, including over 5,5 million people in the active army. What kind of "traces of the stay of almost 5 drafted into the Red Army" are we talking about? Are you talking about those who were surrounded or missing? Or are you talking about deserters? Where does this figure come from, half of the entire numerical strength of the Red Army.
                Quote: svp67
                So, I think today, the one who is ready to defend his land, family, loved ones will do it, and who is not, he will then and today will be in the column "place of arrival is unknown"

                Regarding this pearl of yours, then re-read Mayakovsky's poem "You!" Do you think it will be different today? The middle class with 17 thousand incomes will rush to the embrasures shouting "For the Russian Federation, for Putin and Chubais, for Potanin and Abramovich!"
                Your naivety is surprising sometimes, honestly.
                1. Doctor
                  Doctor 25 November 2021 13: 29
                  .
                  You know, on May 01, 1942, the General Staff of the Red Army could not find traces of the stay of almost 5 drafted into the Red Army and the RKKF ...

                  Is this from a series about 60 million people shot in the gulag?
                  Can I have a link to these documents?

                  1. aleksejkabanets
                    aleksejkabanets 25 November 2021 13: 52
                    +8
                    Quote: Arzt
                    Head of the organizational and accounting department
                    Operations Directorate of the General Staff of the Red Army Colonel Efremov
                    TsAMO. F. 14. Op. 113.D. 1.L. 228-238.

                    As I understand it, these included those who went missing, and those who were captured, and the encircled people and partisans, etc. That is, not only deserters. In general, ours had a mess at that time with a figure, however, the Germans in 1944-45 had exactly the same mess with documents.
                    1. Vladimir Mashkov
                      Vladimir Mashkov 25 November 2021 17: 46
                      +6
                      There are events and people that are forever imprinted in history. This was also Joseph Vissarionovich Stalin. Some people go down in history with a minus sign, others with a plus sign. For all the human weaknesses and shortcomings (of which he had few), mistakes (of which there were more), Stalin nevertheless made good, positive and useful for the USSR / Russia much more and entered not only Russian, but also world history as an imperious, controversial, but intelligent, decisive and positive leader of the huge country of the USSR. And many people both then and now quite rightly personified the successes of the USSR with his name and consider the achievements of the USSR to be largely indebted to him. He has not yet taken the place it deserves in the history of Russia. But I am convinced that such a time will come.
                      1. aleksejkabanets
                        aleksejkabanets 25 November 2021 17: 56
                        +11
                        Quote: Vladimir Mashkov
                        He has not yet taken the place it deserves in the history of Russia. But I am convinced that such a time will come.

                        I absolutely agree with you. I liked the words of Mao Zedong about "debunking the personality cult" by Khrushchev.
                        "The criminal actions of Khrushchev and his henchmen will have long-term consequences, they will lead to the degeneration, and then to the destruction of the USSR and the Communist Party ..." - Mao Zedong.
                        His words were prophetic.
                    2. svp67
                      svp67 25 November 2021 20: 01
                      -2
                      Quote: aleksejkabanets
                      As I understand it, these included those who went missing, and those who were captured, and the encircled people and partisans, etc.

                      No, you misunderstood. The partisans did not enter here, and even if they did, at this time there are still very few of them.
                      Not only that, this does not include the number of those who were NOT SUCCESSFUL to call for mobilization
                      Here are the data from another report to Stalin, already the Chief of Operations of the General Staff of the Red Army, General Shchadenko, dated September 01, 1942
                      a) Lost in the territory temporarily occupied by the enemy 5 Including: - not raised by mobilization of 15 ages (born in 1904-1890) 3 628 000 - not called up by mobilization untrained out of 14 raised ages 822 000 - not called up by mobilization from among 14 - These raised ages in the Baltic republics and the Moldavian SSR 668 - not raised by mobilization of conscripts in 000 and 1922. births 1923 Total 513 b) Excluded from the contingents of nationalities liable for military service in the countries at war with us (Volga Germans and other regions, Romanians, etc.) 000 c) Transferred to the Red Army, Navy, NKVD for the entire time war (including the presence on June 5, 631) 000 250 000 g) transferred by the Decree of the State Defense Committee N1 to org. activities carried out in September 1941 (including 18 reused from the country's resources), total [069] 000 Total resources were used and lost in the territory temporarily occupied by the enemy 2100 1942 880

                      That is, more than 5,5 million people ...
                2. svp67
                  svp67 25 November 2021 19: 58
                  -5
                  Quote: aleksejkabanets
                  This is from the series about ....
                  the fact that you do not know the history of your country
                  Quote: aleksejkabanets
                  Can I have a link to these documents?

                  Why a link, read in full

                  Information about the size of the Red Army, replenishment and losses for the period from the beginning of the war to March 1, 1942
                  By the beginning of the war, the total strength of the Red Army was 4, of whom 924 were called up for large training camps before the announcement of mobilization.
                  As of August 1, 1941, that is, forty days after the start of the war, the actual strength of the Red Army was 6 people, of which: 713 people on active fronts. and in the districts 000 people. Losses during this period were equal to 3 people.
                  If we take into account the losses, then the number of the Red Army on August 1 would have amounted to 7 people.
                  From the beginning of the war and until August 1, 2 entered the Red Army, of which 456 were replenished marching and 000 were part of formations and units.
                  Marching replenishment from the beginning of the war until December 1, inclusive, was received 2 people, of whom by month: in July - 130, August - 000, September - 126, October - 000, November - 627 people.
                  The strength of the Red Army as of December 1 was 7 people, of which 734 were at the fronts, and 000 were in the districts.
                  The total losses from August 1 to December 1 were approximately (no exact data) 3 people, and in November (approximately) 377 people. or 000% to the number of active fronts.
                  If you do not take into account the losses for this period, then the number of active fronts on December 1 could have been 7 + 735 = 000 people.
                  Conclusion: The period from August 1 to December 1 is the most unclear with regard to accounting, especially losses. It can be absolutely definitely stated that the data of the head office on losses for October and November are completely untrue. According to these data, in each of these months, 374 people were lost, but in fact during these months the troops suffered the greatest losses.
                  By the beginning of the offensive (December 1), the size of the Red Army was 7, of which 733 were at the fronts, and 000 in the districts. For the entire period from December 3 to March 207, the total number of replenishment was 000 4 526 people, of which 000 1 1 people arrived as part of the marching replenishment, and 3 220 000 people arrived as part of the formations. The replenishment was distributed by month as follows:
                  - marching - December - 555, January - 000, February - 751 people;
                  - as part of the formations - December - 756, January -?, February - 000 people.
                  The total losses for this period are 1 people. Of these: December - 638, January - 000, February - 552. Average monthly losses - 000 people.
                  The total number of wounded and shell-shocked, frostbitten and sick is 1 665 000 (since the beginning of the war), 12%, the number of those returned to service, according to the sanitary department, is about 1 000 000 people.
                  Overall results in terms of numbers for the past period: By the beginning of the war, the Red Army had 4 924 people In total, 000 people were mobilized.
                  Based on these data, the army should have 1 people as of March 1942, 17. What is actually available? Losses at the fronts - 414 people, of which 000 people were returned to service. Total irrecoverable losses 4 people. In total there should be in the Red Army, taking into account the losses of 217 people. In fact, according to the organizational staff management, as of March 000, 1, there are 000 people in the Red Army.


                  May 1, 1942 Head of the organizational and accounting department
                  Operations Directorate of the General Staff of the Red Army Colonel Efremov
                  TsAMO. F. 14. Op. 113.D. 1.L. 228-238.
                  Quote: aleksejkabanets
                  Your naivety is surprising sometimes, honestly.

                  Forgive me, but it is you who blame others for your sins. Are you naive ... And most likely you are just trying to explain cowardice
                  Quote: aleksejkabanets
                  Regarding this pearl of yours, then re-read Mayakovsky's poem "You!"
                  You have excellent examples, excellent ones. Do you know that Mayakovsky chickened out and in every possible way otmazyvalis first from the draft, and then did everything to stay in the rear ...? Is he close to you in spirit? Not surprised
                  1. aleksejkabanets
                    aleksejkabanets 25 November 2021 21: 07
                    +5
                    Quote: svp67
                    No, you misunderstood. Partisans did not enter here

                    Well, the partisans did not enter, but those who went missing, and those who were captured, and the encircled did also enter. That is, not only deserters. By the way, I never saw the word "deserters" there.
                    Quote: svp67
                    You have excellent examples, excellent ones. Do you know that Mayakovsky chickened out and in every possible way otmazyvalis first from the draft, and then did everything to stay in the rear ...?

                    Mayakovsky chickened out, Yesenin chickened out, even Kotovsky and he deserted, probably out of cowardice.))) Do you find civilian heroes who evaded conscription or deserted? I did not assess the deed of this or that person of those times, I only spoke about the mood in society at that time. And Mayakovsky wrote it very correctly, you didn’t read it in vain. There is no cowardice, there is anger, contempt and despair. And I called you naive, because you apparently and in truth believe that the Russian Federation will not repeat the fate of the Republic of Ingushetia, if there were some serious war.
                    1. Nyrobsky
                      Nyrobsky 25 November 2021 21: 32
                      +2
                      Quote: aleksejkabanets
                      Mayakovsky chickened out, Yesenin chickened out, even Kotovsky and he deserted, probably out of cowardice.))) Do you find civilian heroes who evaded conscription or deserted? I did not assess the deed of this or that person of those times, I only spoke about the mood in society at that time. And Mayakovsky wrote it very correctly, you didn’t read it in vain. There is no cowardice, there is anger, contempt and despair. And I called you naive, because you apparently and in truth believe that the Russian Federation will not repeat the fate of the Republic of Ingushetia, if there were some serious war.
                      As you dug deep. There is a reason to think about and shovel a certain layer of available sources in order to replenish your knowledge winked Interested, yes hi
                    2. svp67
                      svp67 26 November 2021 09: 43
                      -2
                      Quote: aleksejkabanets
                      Yesenin chickened out

                      There are fewer claims to him, he still served in an ambulance train, even though he did something ... Kotovsky ... Well, he was not such a famous poet. And then he showed himself well in Grazhdanskaya, but on what front did Mayakovsky show himself then?
                      Quote: aleksejkabanets
                      Do you find civilian heroes who dodged draft or deserted?

                      Come on, but they, unlike Mayakovsky, did not try to inspire the masses to fight ...
                      Quote: aleksejkabanets
                      The Russian Federation will not repeat the fate of the Republic of Ingushetia, what a serious war happens.

                      I don’t know, here a lot depends on the authorities and people. And the time spent on waging war will be much less than before. Everything will be decided in a couple of months, if not weeks ...
              2. vadimtt
                vadimtt 25 November 2021 14: 44
                +19
                And I think that they went seriously. Not from the very beginning, but almost immediately, such a motto appeared. And I have no reason not to believe my grandfather, who was in the war from 41st to the Oder, and who, picking up a round "icon" of Stalin from a photo filled with eboksitka, kissed him and cried. Well, how can you not believe the tears of a strong and huge man, with three concussions and 6 wounds? I don't even mention the "chest with crosses". So you have to be careful with the funny.
                1. Kayala
                  Kayala 25 November 2021 15: 31
                  +16
                  The same story. Grandfather is a veteran, he idolized Stalin! I remember once at school, for collecting scrap metal or waste paper, or something else, I was handed a portrait of Stalin. Grandfather was so proud as if I had been awarded the Hero's Star. And then the portrait hung at his head over the bed like an icon!
              3. zenion
                zenion 26 November 2021 18: 09
                -1
                Western Ukraine is especially famous in this. When the war began and there was a call, they were built in columns and sent prisoner. This happened all the way to Kiev. We made prisoner-of-war camps and where there were traps, then they gave them ausweis paper and sent them home with a request to help the displaced person. For the reason that these people were needed, both by Benders and the Germans in the form of policemen. When the Red Army returned to those places, many fled to the forests, and some joined the Red Army. Some of the minors gathered in hawks and fought with Bandera and bandyugans, who killed and robbed. A lot of plague was beaten in Bukovina and Transcarpathia. When the bandits saw that they would not gain anything, they became the greatest assistants of those who later renounced their oath of allegiance to the country and carried out a coup. The people did not elect them. What became worse than what happened in 1917, tore the country to pieces. The worst thing is that they cannot govern the country, they can only steal, thief of feudalism.
            2. Andrey Moskvin
              Andrey Moskvin 25 November 2021 13: 57
              -2
              So "for the boys" is the same as "For the Motherland!"
              1. Stas157
                Stas157 25 November 2021 23: 19
                +1
                Quote: Andrey Moskvin
                So "for the boys" after all то же самое, as "For the Motherland!".

                This is how to pull an owl to то же самое it seemed!

                Why, during the Second World War, no one shouted "for the boys"? Didn't you love your homeland? So everyone shouted "For the Motherland"!
            3. g1v2
              g1v2 25 November 2021 20: 58
              0
              And several million soldiers were captured during the first period of the war, under what cries did they surrender? Also for Stalin? I do not want to trample on your religious idea, but most of the soldiers died for their people, for their comrades, for their Motherland, for their civilization, for their family, finally. And now, when necessary, they die in the same way. In Chechnya, Donbass, Syria, or even somewhere in the CAR. We all know examples.
              And by the way, it was with these "fighters for Stalin" that he was taken out of the mausoleum and, apart from the Georgians, no one uttered a word about this. And when the most selected communists poured feces on him, no one stood up for him either. Tch your pathos is inappropriate. request
              And I will greatly surprise you, but I am still in favor of returning the name of Stalingrad to Volgograd. Just because Volgograd is not its original name. And if it was not named after the renaming of the historical name Tsaritsyn, then it would be more logical to return it to the name under which it became known to the whole world. Tch in my opinion Stalingrad is preferable for him.
              1. Unknown
                Unknown 25 November 2021 22: 07
                +6
                Quote: g1v2
                And several million soldiers were captured during the first period of the war, under what cries did they surrender? Also for Stalin? I do not want to trample on your religious idea, but most of the soldiers died for their people, for their comrades, for their Motherland, for their civilization, for their family, finally.

                How to say. There were also for Stalin
                And there were some and paws up with weapons, by the way.
                And this also took place. Well, the point is something else, who other than J.V. Stalin could lead the country in such a difficult time? Can you name at least one? Take Khrushchev, for example, Gorbachev, but at least the current ruler could they organize the military economy in this way, mobilize the army, achieve Lend-Lease, and there is nothing not to yield to the former allies after the war, in defending the interests of the USSR in the whole world? Yes, never, there is no talk, and it cannot be, they are too small in difficult times. They fought because they had to fight, and the oath was obligatory, and there was punishment, and for desertion, escape from the battlefield without an order, etc. d, so this is and was in all the armies of the world, that's why she and the army. What is such a city of Tsaritsyn. not everyone knew even in tsarist Russia. not to mention world fame. But Stalingrad, almost everyone in Asia, both Americas, not to mention Europe, knows Stalingrad for a long time, if not forever.
                1. g1v2
                  g1v2 25 November 2021 23: 38
                  0
                  I am quite calm about Stalin. And whatever one may say, but he is one of the greatest rulers of our country in history. But these attempts to create his mythologized image, the popular print and the religious image of the "USSR, WHICH WE HAVE LOST" causes disgust in me. There was a lot of good and a lot of bad. As in any country. And now, exploiting this mythologized image, they are trying to strike a blow at our country. That is, they are trying to tell us that since the USSR is no longer there, then there is nothing more to defend. Various ghouls on the site say - you have nothing to defend, give up. Since the Russian Federation is not the USSR, then that's it. In the same way as before, Ataman Krasnov believed that since the USSR is not RI, then this is not his country and it is quite possible to fight against it.
                  Those who like to argue that we shouldn't fight "for Sechin or Putin" are the same ones who said that we shouldn't fight "for Jewish political instructors and for Stalin or Zhdanov." Then they said in the same way that while you were feeding the lice at the front, Stalin, Zhdanov and Kosygin were eating vodka in the warmth. Nothing new. Tch these comrades for me are potential Vlasovites. And how they justify themselves, I don't care. They work for the enemies and competitors of our country and we must deal with them accordingly.
                  1. Unknown
                    Unknown 26 November 2021 08: 14
                    +3
                    Who in. Stalin must be treated with respect, he turned out to be, as they say, in the right place at the right time, and this is still a person with a capital letter. During the early USSR, there was an ideology that was understood and accepted by almost all the young generation of that time, which in the post-war period began to lose its relevance, and the new ideology was the heirs of I.V. Stalin could not be invented, at least to correct the old one, due to the scarcity of mind and imagination. "In this war we lost the best. And this will certainly affect." We can confuse something in the economy, but one way or another we will rectify the situation. If we get it wrong in theory, we will ruin the whole matter. Without a theory, we are dead, death! " J.V. Stalin. The young people who were brought up by the Soviet power in the 20s perished almost all of them, it was they who basically rushed to their death, it was for this power. The question is, what kind of young people were brought up in today's Russia? If on the Tajik-Afghan border, the guys defended the Union, which had not existed for a year, but the memory of it remained, and they were born in the USSR, as well as the Chechen one, then what will the youth defend now? I don’t argue, there will be someone who will stand up to the defense, no matter which Russia, but the majority will say, “Do we need it? . " Such judgments have already been and are, an example of the so-called Ukraine on the face. What ideology will the current government offer? To lay down your life ... for what? Is she actually there?
                    1. g1v2
                      g1v2 26 November 2021 18: 06
                      0
                      And how has the country lived for a thousand years without Soviet ideology? Why did you die on the Kulikovo field, near Poltava, near Borodino, in Sevastopol, etc.? Weren't they our ancestors for a thousand years? Well, for the same thing, for which they gave their lives - for the country, their civilization, for their families, etc. Someone and for faith.
                      And the guys on the Tajik-Afghan border were clearly not dying of the USSR, which Soviet citizens had destroyed with hooting for a year already. And simply because behind them they have their own, and in front of them - strangers. And if strangers pass, then their own will die. Everything. It's enough. And it is stupid to drag in the communist religion everywhere. Already in the mid-80s, young people did not believe in her at all. I remember this. And not only young people.
                      1. Unknown
                        Unknown 26 November 2021 19: 39
                        +1
                        Quote: g1v2
                        And how has the country lived for a thousand years without Soviet ideology? Why did you die on the Kulikovo field, near Poltava, near Borodino, in Sevastopol, etc.? Weren't they our ancestors for a thousand years? Well, for the same thing, for which they gave their lives - for the country, their civilization, for their families, etc. Someone and for faith.

                        They did not fight without ideology, on the Kulikovo field, then it was different, the emphasis was on the Orthodox faith. On the eve of the Battle of Kulikovo, Sergius of Radonezh said: "It befits you, sir, when you care about the herd of Christians handed over from God. Go against the godless, and help God help you, conquer." Against the ungodly, but in a simple way. And the behavior of Prince Oleg of Ryazan raises a number of questions, also by the way from the Rurik. Before Poltava, Peter said "Warriors! The hour has come that will decide the fate of the Fatherland. And so you should not think that you are fighting for Peter, but for the state entrusted to Peter, for his family, for the fatherland, for our Orthodox faith and the Church." Also, as we can see, there was an ideology. The same thing happened in Borodino and Sevastopol, the emphasis was on faith and patronymic. It cannot do without faith in the ideals of Orthodoxy. So whatever one may say, but the ideology was, in one way or another.
                        Quote: g1v2
                        And the guys on the Tajik-Afghan border were clearly not dying of the USSR, which Soviet citizens with hooting had already destroyed a year ago

                        For what? Maybe for an independent Tajikistan? Or maybe for Yeltsin? In 1992-93, there was still a glimmer of hope that the altered Union would be restored, and the borders of the USSR would be inviolable. I know what I am saying, because on February 14 we are meeting with the guys on the anniversary of the withdrawal, and the guys who served in the border troops on the Tajik-Afghan border always join us, there is something to remember and something to talk about. No need to speak for the entire Soviet people, collapse Union passed hard and with blood on the outskirts, and hooting was not observed, unless among the liberal democrats, it is not necessary to pass off wishful thinking.
                        Quote: g1v2
                        And it is stupid to drag in the communist religion everywhere. Already in the mid-80s, young people did not believe in her at all. I remember this. And not only young people.

                        I also remember, because in 82 I was drafted into the ranks of the SA. Something in the belief of communist ideals was shaken, but the core remained. And they believed in the Union, it was only necessary to clean up some scum. And it collapsed when the tagged Gorbachev began to shred the Union alive, when he declared the Afghan war unnecessary, criminal, and the guys left destroying their monuments to the dead, who stood by dozens on all Afghan roads, so that the spirits would not sneer at them, and their hearts would bleed. What were you fighting for here? But what about the guys who came to their homeland in zinc? So all the sacrifices are in vain? Yes, not one country does not treat its veterans and the dead so respectfully. In the states of Arlington National Cemetery is sacred. Not one US president will say that the soldiers buried there died in vain. And we have? That war is criminal, this one was in vain and went off. This is where they start. At the time of I.V. Stalin, more than one monument in Eastern Europe to our soldiers was not touched. There were isolated cases of vandalism, but the authorities themselves severely punished such cases. Now it starts, it will be demolished there, then here. And in China. North Korea are. they are looked after, flowers are brought. Why? Here are the communist ideals in action.
                      2. g1v2
                        g1v2 26 November 2021 23: 12
                        -1
                        Kamrad. I have already written for what our soldiers have died and will die for centuries. Behind their backs, and in front - strangers. If strangers pass, then their own will die. Everything is simple and trite.
                        About the rod. I also remember that time well. In the second half of the 80s, my grandfather, a respected communist in the city, took Lenin's complete works to the toilet. Because there was a collection of Lenin's works, but there was no toilet paper in a small town on the Volga. And I read it there before using it. And it was he who led me to baptize. A man who, from an early age, from pre-war times, plowed in a dangerous workshop and became the head of the workshop. And he was not the only one. Disappointment in that ideology I saw around.
                        The guys who came home in zinc also did not die in vain. They died for their own people. Even in a war that they could not win. Just because there was no goal. If there is no goal and no understanding of what is considered a victory, then you cannot win.
                        The states already say so. I often watch American TV shows and films. And I see how they portray their soldiers in Hollywood lately. Our media show them much softer. It just reminds me of perestroika. There is now about the same thing happening.
                      3. Unknown
                        Unknown 27 November 2021 07: 00
                        0
                        Quote: g1v2
                        Behind their backs, and in front - strangers. If strangers pass, then their own will die

                        They didn’t always stand behind our backs, and it’s easier to die for an idea. When strangers come, theirs are well settled, not all of them, of course, but still there were those who wanted to.
                        Quote: g1v2
                        In the second half of the 80s, my grandfather, a respected communist in the city, took Lenin's complete works to the toilet. Because there was a collection of Lenin's works, but there was no toilet paper in a small town on the Volga.

                        And why did he wait so long? Why didn't he take it earlier? The middle is a loose concept.
                        Quote: g1v2
                        The guys who came home in zinc also did not die in vain. They died for their own people. Even in a war that they could not win. Just because there was no goal.

                        They die for their own in criminal showdowns. In war, they give their lives, because there is an order that must be carried out. Not having been there, one should not judge the goals. It is necessary to watch Hollywood less, from frequent viewing the assessment of reality changes. So you will believe in fairy tales, and you will begin to prove to everyone that, as they show, there really is.
                      4. Terran ghost
                        Terran ghost 29 November 2021 14: 11
                        0
                        In war, they give their lives, because there is an order that must be carried out.

                        But what if the order is deliberately criminal in its content?
                      5. Terran ghost
                        Terran ghost 29 November 2021 14: 10
                        -1
                        The states already say so

                        This is already when. The massive anti-war movement in the United States took place during the Vietnam War itself. Moreover, the US withdrawal from this war took place not because American troops suffered a military defeat there (this simply did not happen), but because the war became extremely unpopular with the people of the United States themselves. Including thanks to the competently conducted North. Viet Nam is an advocacy campaign aimed primarily at the media in Western Europe and North America.
                        This is the first thing. Now the second. The US Department of War has NEVER had the ability, through total censorship, to provide such an "information picture" in which the US Armed Forces would be "turned" to the public solely by the "parade-heroic side". Problems, shortcomings, incidents of atrocities or war crimes committed by US military personnel all infiltrate the media and become the subject of discussion, condemnation and investigation. There, "for some reason", in principle, the number cannot go through when a representative of the Committee of the Chiefs of Staff of the US Armed Forces comes out to the public and says that "in Songmi, American soldiers handed out the most delicious hamburgers in the world to the Vietnamese, and in Abu Ghraib, prisoners lived in conditions a comfortable sanatorium in single rooms with all conveniences, three meals a day and a swimming pool ", not forgetting to say that journalists who speak differently are" national traitors "and" the fifth column ".
                      6. Terran ghost
                        Terran ghost 29 November 2021 13: 52
                        -1
                        In the states of Arlington National Cemetery is sacred.

                        Well, we'll probably start with the fact that at the Arlington Cemetery, dead US military personnel have been buried since the period of the American Civil War. This is not an exclusive monument to the Vietnam War. But the main thing is not even this - the Arlington cemetery for the dead US servicemen is located ... in the USA itself. Not in Vietnam, not in Laos, or even in the allied USA Mexico.
                        Something in the belief of communist ideals was shaken, but the core remained.

                        What kind of "core"? The main and only "bearing pillar" of the USSR as such was the belief that a) communism could be built in reality within the life of one two-generation, b) that communism could be built within the specified time frame by the methods used by the RCP ( b) -VKP (b) -KPSS.
                        As soon as this belief disappeared among the majority of the population and the majority of the ruling elite, the fate of the USSR was sealed.
                        That war is criminal, this is in vain

                        Specifically in the US, the assertion that US participation in the Vietnam War was criminal is ... quite within the political mainstream, if that. And the blame in such cases is essentially placed on the then US President Lyndon Johnson and US Secretary of Defense Robert McNamara, who made the decision to join that war.
              2. svp67
                svp67 26 November 2021 09: 45
                0
                Quote: g1v2
                but I am still in favor of returning the name of Stalingrad to Volgograd.

                And that's what it's called now, but six days a year:
                May 9 - on Victory Day, June 22 - on the Day of Remembrance and Mourning, August 23 - on the Day of Remembrance of the victims of the bombing of Stalingrad by Nazi aircraft, September 2 - on the Day of the end of World War II and November 19 - on the Day of the beginning of the defeat of the Nazis at Stalingrad.
                1. g1v2
                  g1v2 26 November 2021 18: 07
                  +2
                  Well, it's still schizophrenia. The city must have its own name. And not changing according to the calendar.
            4. The comment was deleted.
          2. Stas157
            Stas157 25 November 2021 23: 11
            0
            Quote: Lech from Android.
            Remember how the pilot Roman Filippov died heroically.

            Well? Were his last words for the king? And screaming "For the Motherland" in Syria would have been strange!

            So what did you want to say? Can you not express yourself in hints?
          3. Thompson
            Thompson 27 November 2021 09: 49
            +1
            He shouted - FOR THE FATS !!!!!!
            Do not catch the difference, do you?
            I will not say anything about the rest
        2. Nyrobsky
          Nyrobsky 25 November 2021 12: 31
          -5
          Quote: paul3390

          And now - which of you is ready to climb with a grenade under the tank "For Putin, for dear capitalism"? That's the same .. For the noneshnye are not real. They are not worth fighting for. Dying for a thief who doesn't care about us and the country is, to say the least, a strange occupation.

          What is this? Come mattresses and other huskies and take Russia? Drive out our capitalists, put your capitalists on the neck, for we don't care and we won't harness for anyone. So what? So under the tsar, the people did not particularly go to perdition "For the Tsar and the capitalists !!!", but died more for "Faith and Fatherland !!!" , but the Fatherland was one for all, and therefore each defended his own.Therefore, when the enemies attacked our "State", they received the Mordas from the "Motherland".
          Otherwise, yes, to fight for Sechin, Miller or Deripaska with Chubais, the motive is weak, and therefore we will fight for the Motherlandyes
          1. Ross xnumx
            Ross xnumx 25 November 2021 12: 55
            +5
            Quote: Nyrobsky
            What is this? Come mattresses and other huskies and take Russia?

            Don't print slogans and chants for us! Everything that had any value back in the 90s passed into private (including American hands). Can I tell you what and who are the people on the Forbes list?
            You can go against the invaders of the country, only someone is very much afraid against whom (after defeating an external enemy) the weapon can be turned.
            From the first sentence, make a distinction between the state and the Motherland.
            1. Nyrobsky
              Nyrobsky 25 November 2021 12: 58
              +1
              Quote: ROSS 42
              Don't print slogans and chants for us! Everything that had any value back in the 90s passed into private (including American hands). Can I tell you what and who are the people on the Forbes list?

              You, Yur Vasilich, have at least read my comment to the end, or do you have a veil on your eyes from the first lines?
              1. Ross xnumx
                Ross xnumx 25 November 2021 13: 04
                0
                Quote: Nyrobsky
                You, Yur Vasilich, have at least read my comment to the end, or do you have a veil on your eyes from the first lines?

                Are you my answer?
                Quote: ROSS 42
                From the first sentence, make a distinction between the state and the Motherland.

                If I appreciated it, it was like water ... Don't be ashamed of your thoughts - they are not seditious. And then while you finish reading to the end of the message, already and ... It becomes incomprehensible: it seems like he was a good person, but here it is ...
            2. g1v2
              g1v2 26 November 2021 18: 09
              -2
              If you have a wall between the state and the Motherland, then you are a potential Vlasovite. No matter how they justify themselves. request
          2. Kittymoore
            Kittymoore 25 November 2021 14: 13
            -1
            Otherwise, yes, to fight for Sechin, Miller or Deripaska with Chubais, the motive is weak, and therefore we will fight for the Motherland.


            For the Motherland, for Stalin, for Sechin, for everything good, etc. - what difference does it make what you are yelling or what you believe in, as long as you have a weapon in your hands and you do what you are ordered to do? Believe what you want, the beneficiaries do not care about this.
          3. Mordvin 3
            Mordvin 3 25 November 2021 23: 10
            +4
            Quote: Nyrobsky
            So, under the tsar, the people did not really go to the death "For the Tsar and the capitalists !!!", but died more for "Faith and Fatherland !!!" "

            For Faith, Tsar and Fatherland!
            It became unnecessary to go to Vera, bows to her, the tsar renounced, the fatherland collapsed and there was no one to fight for.
            1. Nyrobsky
              Nyrobsky 25 November 2021 23: 56
              +1
              Quote: Mordvin 3
              For Faith, Tsar and Fatherland!
              It became unnecessary to go to Vera, bows to her, the tsar renounced, the fatherland collapsed and there was no one to fight for.

              Why not for whom? The above was replaced by other slogans - "Power to the Soviets, Land to the Peasants, Factories to the Workers." hi
              1. Ol willy
                Ol willy 26 November 2021 17: 14
                0
                - The earth - to the workers! Factories to the peasants!
                - Maybe the other way around?
                - On the contrary, we tried it, it didn't work out very well ...
              2. Mordvin 3
                Mordvin 3 26 November 2021 20: 08
                0
                Quote: Nyrobsky
                The above was replaced by other slogans - "Power to the Soviets, Land to the Peasants, Factories to the Workers."

                This is after. And before that? The Bolsheviks, Mensheviks, anarchists, monarchists, Cossacks tried to create their own state.
        3. Charlie
          Charlie 25 November 2021 19: 50
          -6
          I read something in the memoirs of the veterans that they did not shout "for the homeland" and "for Stalin." This is a product of cinematography
          1. Alex_1973
            Alex_1973 25 November 2021 23: 01
            +3
            Charlie (Nikolay)
            I read something in the memoirs of the veterans that they did not shout "for the homeland" and "for Stalin." This is a product of cinematography
            I don’t know who and what you read there, but my grandfather said so that they went on the attack with a cry: Hurray! For the Motherland! For Stalin!
            And somehow I believe him more than you and those like you!
            1. Charlie
              Charlie 26 November 2021 06: 12
              -4
              Not "who and what" I read, but the memoirs of the veterans of that war, I wrote. On the site "I remember". And "like me", who are they?
              1. Konnick
                Konnick 26 November 2021 06: 42
                +2
                Not "who and what" I read, but the memoirs of the veterans of that war, I wrote. On the site "I remember". And "like me", who are they?

                Do not pass this site off as true. There, memoirs are written by modern authors, since most of the veterans, whose "memories", by the time the site was created, had long been dead. The main author Artem Drabkin writes these memoirs in accordance with his political position, i.e. biased.
                1. Charlie
                  Charlie 26 November 2021 06: 56
                  0
                  Yes, there are moments with inventions. You read and think, where is a person's memory failing, and where is he frankly "inventing". However, there are many interesting things. The site was created a long time ago, more than ten years ago, then some of the participants were still alive and could tell something.
                  1. Konnick
                    Konnick 26 November 2021 07: 17
                    +2
                    However, there are many interesting things. The site was created a long time ago, more than ten years ago, then some of the participants were still alive and could tell something.

                    I can say "lucky", I talked with veterans, even often with a bottle, sometimes they burst. Although the majority did not like to remember the war. If Drabkin interviewed veterans, there would be photos with Drabkin and the veteran. Even the memoirs of Pyotr Mikhin and Suknev were written by young authors with great imagination. Reading Mikhin about the cadaveric fields through which he dragged a cannon in his arms, one wonders how he dragged a 122-mm howitzer, weighing 2,5 tons, on his arms, following the advancing ones, and why. And Suknev's is simply fantastic, after the explosion of a high-explosive projectile, the human body evaporates, but the clothes remain. Someone makes money by speculating in the name of a veteran. Nothing is sacred left.
                    1. Charlie
                      Charlie 26 November 2021 10: 38
                      +1
                      Taking a photo with the interviewee is optional. At Mikhin, I don’t remember the moment that he carried a howitzer in his hands through the fields of corpse. Maybe the memory fails. Astafiev also wrote about head-on attacks on machine guns. Or does he also drive? Who then wrote the truth about her, about this war?
      2. Speedy
        Speedy 25 November 2021 12: 27
        -1
        Stalingrad to Volgograd was renamed communists enemies of communists? Tatra (by the way, why the Czech car industry?), You really decide who is the enemy of the communists and write more specifically.
      3. Fitter65
        Fitter65 26 November 2021 12: 18
        +2
        Quote: tatra
        Yes at enemies of the communiststhat captured the RSFSR, there is generally no positive history of their country and people.
        Yes, not the enemies of the communists, but the communists - degenerates, snickering bureaucrats from the party. And the real communists, who built the Dnieper Hydroelectric Power Station and Magnitka, led companies and regiments into the battle for the Motherland, for Stalin. The current HEROES defend the Motherland and die for it, but the call - for United Russia, for the President - has never been heard.
    2. Civil
      Civil 25 November 2021 10: 25
      +27
      The other day I was at the car market. Not at all surprised huge choice paraphernalia with Comrade Stalin. "The demand is very high" according to the seller. This is how they did not erase the memory of the people even after so many generations, moreover, by their actions the gentlemen only pushed the people closer to Stalin.
      1. Crowe
        Crowe 25 November 2021 10: 41
        +37
        The role of Stalin in history is positively assessed by more than 70% of Russians, according to a poll by the Levada Center. This is a record for all the years of relevant research.
      2. for
        for 25 November 2021 11: 18
        +5
        Quote: Civil
        I was not at all surprised at the huge selection of paraphernalia with Comrade Stalin

        Previously, trains were used to sell photographic products. Georgians have a photo of him on the windshield.
        1. Fitter65
          Fitter65 26 November 2021 12: 31
          +1
          Quote: for
          Georgians have a photo of him on the windshield.

          In the second half of the 70s and in Siberia, almost every second truck came with a portrait of Stalin. Even my sister's husband, first at KrAZ, then at KavZik, then when he left for another organization, at PAZ, also had a portrait of I.V. Stalin on the windshield.
    3. Terenin
      Terenin 25 November 2021 10: 43
      +18
      The second step, after the inscription "Stalingrad" in the Alexander Garden, must stop closing the Mausoleum on Victory Day. No need to remind what a symbol and pride, for everyone, he was in the war.
    4. Flooding
      Flooding 25 November 2021 11: 04
      -3
      Quote: svp67
      One is diligently "forgotten" by the ROC, the second by the Communist Party and the liberals ...

      Do you mean that the Russian Orthodox Church should write a school history textbook?
      Or canonize Ivan the Terrible?
      1. Andrey Zhdanov-Nedilko
        Andrey Zhdanov-Nedilko 25 November 2021 11: 33
        +1
        And Ivan Vasilyevich must be canonized. And the point. We believe that this is the opinion of the people.
        1. Flooding
          Flooding 25 November 2021 11: 44
          -4
          Quote: Andrey Zhdanov-Nedilko
          And Ivan Vasilyevich must be canonized. And the point. We believe that this is the opinion of the people.

          Do you pray before images?
          If not, then do not arrogate to yourself someone else's right.
        2. Galleon
          Galleon 25 November 2021 11: 51
          .
          Let us then canonize with a list of patients in psychiatric hospitals and dermatoveneric dispensaries. Any psychiatrist, having studied the historical documents about Ivan the 4th, will say that the diagnosis is complete there. Plus mercury compounds in the remains, which were then treated for syphilis.
          1. Flooding
            Flooding 25 November 2021 12: 07
            +7
            Quote: Galleon
            Any psychiatrist, having studied the historical documents about Ivan the 4th, will say that the diagnosis is complete there. Plus mercury compounds in the remains, which were then treated for syphilis.

            slander

            "Brief reports of the Institute of Archeology of the Academy of Sciences of the USSR". 1965. no. 100.S. 139-142.
            Gerasimov M.M.

            "The chemical study of the skeletons of these historical persons makes it possible to interpret the information about their death in a different way. For example, there is a version that Ivan the Terrible was poisoned. The research carried out does not confirm this. The detected amount of arsenic does not exceed the usual norms. But a very large amount was found. In this regard, let us recall that they often speak, relying on obscure information, about the illness of Tsar Ivan, hinting that he had lues. Examination of the skeleton gives us the right to say that this is not the case. There are no traces of this disease in the bones of the skeleton or on the skull."
            1. Galleon
              Galleon 25 November 2021 12: 10
              -8
              Quote: Flood
              slander

              No. I have no such intention, to slander. In the quote you quoted, Gerasimov himself speaks of the terrible amount of mercury and the fact that it was used in medicine. What is the slander?
              1. Flooding
                Flooding 25 November 2021 12: 27
                +4
                "speak from obscure information, about the illness of Tsar Ivan "
                they say
                based on obscure information
                which is refuted by the results of the study of the state of the bones of the skeleton

                your slander lies in the extremely negative context of the comment based on speculation

                you do not write that mercury preparations were widely used in medicine at that time and even until recently (!)
                and write exclusively about syphilis.
                which Gerasimov excludes due to the absence of characteristic damage to bone tissue in the remains
                1. Galleon
                  Galleon 25 November 2021 17: 06
                  -7
                  What is there to slander? A mentally ill fanatic, only officially married 7 times? The Aleksandrovsky district was completely depopulated from the entertainment of the guardsmen, the corpses lay in the ditches. Saint Philip is strangled. In Ivan's synodiks there are eight hundred names of boyars, who were ruined by his order. No one counted commoners. Who is there to slander? Or is this holiness in your understanding - the holiness of destruction and death? In war he went to Novgorod and Pskov, Russian cities. On the way to Novgorod, all the cities were plundered. Slander? Are you from dementia or what?
                  1. Kayala
                    Kayala 25 November 2021 19: 57
                    +4
                    And Novgorod and Pskov did not deserve that? They remained Russian only thanks to Ivan the Terrible, and it was not he who would have gone over to the Swedes or the Germans so long ago.
                    Under Ivan, it was mainly boyars who were executed as the main instigators of turmoil and schism, no one touched ordinary peasants, and they were even considered very much, since it was their labor that everyone lived.
                    So do not lie impudently, but rather study history. Under Ivan, Russia has grown in such territories that others never dreamed of. It was he who laid the foundations of the Russia that we got!
                    1. Galleon
                      Galleon 25 November 2021 21: 46
                      -6
                      Do you justify the executioners and scumbags who destroyed their own population? What, spiritual closeness with such? Don't you like harshness in your own history? And this story is full of harshness. I’m not lying — you are closing your eyes and don’t want to see the truth — you only want to know the myths drawn by propaganda.
                      DO NOT study history - firstly, it is useless for you, and secondly, you will not like it. Read Speed-Info or watch the first channel.
                      1. Alex_1973
                        Alex_1973 25 November 2021 22: 57
                        +3
                        Aleon (Andrew)
                        You justify the executioners and the scumbags,
                        As not a great figure, it is so necessary to "butcher and scumbag", as for me there are so big scumbags than people like you can not find. What kind of fashion is it to shit on the brightest? I'm just wondering, and who, in your opinion, is not an executioner and a scumbag?
                        Well, do not hesitate, show the level of your "powerful intelligence", if any. Show off your knowledge of history. Who?
                        I'll try to guess. Nikolai # 2 ?!
                      2. Ol willy
                        Ol willy 26 November 2021 17: 18
                        -3
                        Dmitry Donskoy. Peter the Great. Alexander II.
                      3. Alex_1973
                        Alex_1973 26 November 2021 20: 30
                        -1
                        Ol Willy (Willy)
                        Dmitry Donskoy. Peter the Great. Alexander II.
                        Under Dmitry Donskoy, Moscow was burned and a lot of people after the invasion of Tokhtamysh went into slavery. Under Peter the Great, the people were also not sickly, on one of the construction sites of St. Petersburg, the people died from disease and hunger, not to mention other construction sites. Under Alexander the Liberator, there were also many things, including the loss of territories.
                        BUT, at the same time, no one branded them with shame, but Ivan the Terrible was directly branded a murderer, although he generally did not touch anyone with a finger, not counting the residents of Novgorod and Pskov.
                        When will it already reach you that great achievements and breakthroughs are not complete without great work and sacrifices ?!
                      4. Ol willy
                        Ol willy 27 November 2021 11: 04
                        0
                        In what condition did Dmitry Donskoy, Peter the Great and Alexander II leave Russia for their descendants?

                        In what condition did Ivan the Terrible leave the country to the descendants? What was the name of the time when Poles were in Moscow?
                      5. Alex_1973
                        Alex_1973 27 November 2021 22: 24
                        -1
                        Can you open a history textbook? Or just turn on your brains and analyze who ruled after the death of Ivan the Terrible ?! Good luck searching on the internet ...
      2. Nyrobsky
        Nyrobsky 25 November 2021 12: 56
        +8
        Quote: Flood
        Or canonize Ivan the Terrible?

        Why not, if he did much more for the Russian state than Nicholas-2, who became cowardly, renounced the throne and plunged the country into confusion, which in fact led his family to destruction, which did not prevent the Russian Orthodox Church from canonizing him ...
        1. Flooding
          Flooding 25 November 2021 12: 59
          +2
          Quote: Nyrobsky
          Why not, if he did much more for the Russian state than Nikolai II,

          canonization is still not about state interests

          and about Nikolai, I share your bewilderment entirely
          1. Nyrobsky
            Nyrobsky 25 November 2021 13: 39
            +2
            Quote: Flood
            Quote: Nyrobsky
            Why not, if he did much more for the Russian state than Nikolai II,

            canonization is still not about state interests

            and about Nikolai, I share your bewilderment entirely

            At that time, the interests of the state and the church were inseparable, since the state, with the patriarchal blessing, increased its territory, and the church increased its flock and possessions. hi
            1. Flooding
              Flooding 25 November 2021 13: 44
              -2
              Quote: Nyrobsky
              At that time, the interests of the state and the church were inseparable.

              after all, the church directly influenced the state
              the opposite effect was indirect

              I understood you correctly, what are you for the canonization of all the great Russian statesmen and military leaders up to the 19th century?
              1. Nyrobsky
                Nyrobsky 25 November 2021 14: 18
                +4
                Quote: Flood
                I understood you correctly, what are you for the canonization of all the great Russian statesmen and military leaders up to the 19th century?

                Why everyone? I am simply against the double standards of the church in the canonization. It is one thing to canonize a person who promoted the faith, or who suffered and accepted death for his faith, and another thing to canonize a person only for belonging to the royal family and suffered for his cowardice. In addition, there is clearly a political motive here. he suffered from the Bolsheviks, but at the same time it is overlooked that on the orders of Nicholas there was a bloody Sunday and the Lena execution.
                1. Ol willy
                  Ol willy 26 November 2021 17: 25
                  -2
                  on the orders of Nicholas there was a bloody Sunday and the Lena execution.

                  Are you studying the history of candy wrappers from chupa-chups? Nicholas II learned about the events in St. Petersburg only in the evening.

                  The Lena execution was carried out by order of Captain Treshchenkov.

                  Treshchenkov was demoted to the rank and file and died in 1915 on the Austrian front. At least somehow answered
      3. svp67
        svp67 25 November 2021 13: 20
        0
        Quote: Flood
        Do you mean that the Russian Orthodox Church should write a school history textbook?

        In any case, earlier it was necessary not to interfere with doing this
        1. Flooding
          Flooding 25 November 2021 13: 24
          -1
          Quote: svp67
          In any case, earlier it was necessary not to interfere with doing this

          ROC prevented historians from writing the truth about Ivan the Terrible?
      4. Fitter65
        Fitter65 26 November 2021 12: 40
        -1
        Quote: Flood
        Or canonize Ivan the Terrible?
        Who is Ivan the Terrible? But Nicholas II is a "personality". Ivan the Terrible annexed lands to the Russian kingdom,
        and Somderzhets Nikolay lost them, Sakhalin, Kurily - by the way, I.V. Stalin remembered this in his speech dedicated to the end of World War II. But one of the founders of the Russian Empire, Ivan the Terrible, is hated, and the traitor to Russia, Nikolai Romanov, is ranked among the martyrs (that's the word for it). And this is the church outside of politics? And the most interesting thing is that
        The Patriarchate was established in Moscow in 1589: Job became the first patriarch. Abolished in 1721; restored on October 28 (November 10) 1917 by the decision of the All-Russian Local Council. After the restoration of the Patriarchate, Tikhon became the first patriarch on November 5 (November 18) 1917.
        After all, this was after the October Revolution, and the Bolsheviks never canceled this very lucrative post ... hi
        1. Flooding
          Flooding 26 November 2021 14: 52
          0
          Quote: Fitter65
          Who is Ivan the Terrible? But Nicholas II is a "personality".

          If you have addressed all this to me, you have bothered yourself in vain.
          I believe that statesmen and military leaders do not need canonization.
          Their deeds speak for themselves.
          They are honored or blamed centuries later, not at all for the fact that they are depicted on icons.

          Especially when canonization raises a lot of questions from society due to the ambiguity of the historical personality.

          It is all the more strange to read the words about canonization from unchurched people. Why should they?
          Will I read more Suvorov, Kutuzov and Ushakov if they are canonized?
          1. Fitter65
            Fitter65 26 November 2021 17: 54
            0
            Quote: Flood
            If you have addressed all this to me, you have bothered yourself in vain.

            Yes, I didn’t bother myself, I just look like a comment as with a suitable sentence (expression of thought), well, I quoted it, purely so as not to bother typing. And non-churchmen are, as I understand it, approximately = Homo sapiens, well, like a reasonable person? And canonization, yes, here with each canonized, more questions like, why? Indeed, why did you go to force people of a different religion to convert to your faith? And always not in a peaceful way.
        2. Ol willy
          Ol willy 26 November 2021 17: 29
          -1
          I understand that for the communists "Orthodoxy" is a dirty word, but at least try to read why Nicholas II and his family were canonized.

          Passionate - this is the name in the Orthodox Church in general of all Christian martyrs who endured suffering (passion, Greek πάθος, πάθημα, Latin passio) in the name of Jesus Christ. But mainly this name refers to persons who did not accept a martyr's death for the Christian faith, in contrast to the martyrs and great martyrs, perhaps even from their loved ones and co-religionists - because of their malice, greed, treachery, and conspiracy.

          As a member of the Synodal Commission for the Canonization of Saints Archpriest Georgy Mitrofanov noted, "the rank of passion-bearers has been used since antiquity only in relation to representatives of the grand-ducal and royal families."
          1. Fitter65
            Fitter65 26 November 2021 18: 05
            0
            Quote: Ol Willy
            I understand that for the communists "Orthodoxy" is a dirty word,
            The communists gave you a PATRIARCH.
            Quote: Ol Willy
            "The rank of martyrs has been used since antiquity only in relation to representatives of the grand ducal and royal families"

            Oh, well, tody oops! Those who, in martyrdom, accepted suffering for their faith, for their homeland, they are not worthy of mention. But the traitor to FAITH is worthy of being mentioned in the Christmastide.
            1. Ol willy
              Ol willy 26 November 2021 18: 25
              0
              Quote: Fitter65
              The communists gave you a PATRIARCH.

              Council of 1917 condemned the Bolsheviks
              Quote: Fitter65
              But the traitor to FAITH is worthy of being mentioned in the Christmastide.

              When did Nicholas II manage to betray the faith? Are there confessions?
              1. Fitter65
                Fitter65 26 November 2021 19: 38
                0
                Quote: Ol Willy
                When did Nicholas II manage to betray the faith? Are there confessions?

                Yes, in the easy, when he abdicated the throne. when he was seated on the throne, he swore before God that he would take care, support and so on, so on, so on .... But having renounced the throne, he betrayed his "oath" given to God before people, and accordingly turned out to be from the faith.
                Quote: Ol Willy
                Council of 1917 condemned the Bolsheviks
                And? ... But from the patriarch whom the Bolsheviks established for them, they did not refuse !!!. By the way, they did not anathematize the one who abolished the patriarchate, I mean Peter I. And by the way, they did not all condemn the Bolsheviks, but many conducted anti-state propaganda. You will be surprised, but even nowadays people are imprisoned for this, as well as under Peter I, who removed such a bread-and-butter position ...
    5. Andrey Zhdanov-Nedilko
      Andrey Zhdanov-Nedilko 25 November 2021 11: 32
      +5
      This ROC still needs to be dealt with! If I were the President, I would radically put them in their place !!! We have a secular state.
      1. okean969
        okean969 25 November 2021 11: 44
        -7
        You first learn to put your wife in her place, and then we'll talk about the Russian Orthodox Church.
        1. Fitter65
          Fitter65 26 November 2021 12: 59
          0
          Quote: okean969
          You first learn to put your wife in her place, and then we'll talk about the Russian Orthodox Church.

          And what about her then, I'm about the ROC? It seems like everything is clear without talking
          The robbers took from the priest's apartment 35 million rubles, 140 thousand euros (approximately 5,7 million in rubles) and a jewelry box. The priest of the Yekaterinburg diocese, Protodeacon Sergiy Megalinsky, contacted the police. The police officers were not so much amazed at the fact of the theft from the house of the clergyman, as the amount indicated in the statement. The priest did not even dare to estimate the exact cost of the stolen gold .... It was not possible to detain the criminals right away, despite the fact that they left a note in the "cleaned out" apartment. The text of the message contained a paraphrase of Georges Miloslavsky from the film "Ivan Vasilyevich Changes His Profession": "Holy Fathers! Keep your money in a savings bank! Let the people know how much you have."
          https://56orb.ru/news/world/24-10-2013/nichego-svyatogo-iz-doma-svyaschennika-pohitili-bolee-40-millionov-rubley
          This is not the first case of major thefts from the clergy of the Russian Orthodox Church. In 2011, TV journalists managed to shoot a hidden camera interview with Archpriest Mikhail Grigoriev, rector of the Church of the Holy Great Martyr Paraskeva Pyatnitsa, which is under the Kazan Kremlin.

          After his return from the resort in Karlovy Vary, the archpriest contracted pneumonia, so the conversation took place in the VIP room of one of the hospitals in Kazan. Father Michael was in a sad frame of mind. But not so much because of illness, but because of the fact that there was a major theft at his house. Grigoriev did not name the amount, but later the reporters managed to find out that 15 million rubles were stolen from the priest's safe.

          In an interview, the blue-eyed priest admitted that he has three country houses, two apartments in Kazan and one in Moscow. In addition, Father Mikhail wears a Patek Philippe watch for 100 thousand dollars, expensive clothes from “Louis Vuitton” and “Brioni”, and calls Vertu, which costs no less than 20 thousand dollars. As for the Holy Father's car park, in the abbot's garage there are a BMW X6 for 150 thousand dollars, a Mercedes Gelendvagen for the same price and a Mercedes Viana minibus for 1,5 million rubles.


          Source: https://versia.ru/tolko-kogda-sluchaetsya-krazha-v-dome-svyashhennika-ili-chinovnika-stanovitsya-izvestno-kakimi-kapitalami-oni-vladeyut
          Will we still talk about the Russian Orthodox Church, or will YOU go put your wife in her place? bully
    6. YOUR
      YOUR 25 November 2021 11: 47
      +9
      Brezhnev is also diligently forgotten. He died on November 10, 1982. Not a single central media channel said a word.
    7. Thrifty
      Thrifty 25 November 2021 12: 03
      +5
      It is good that in the USSR there was no city named after the corn Khrushchetut !!!
      1. Woodman
        Woodman 25 November 2021 14: 52
        +2
        Quote: Thrifty
        in the USSR there was no city named in honor of the corn Khrushchetutka !!!

        I googled, or rather yandeksil - it turns out I was, but not for long:
        From 1961 to 1962 - the city of Khrushchev, modern Svetlovodsk was called in the Kirovograd region of Ukraine. It seems like Nikita Sergeevich demanded to remove his name from the name of the city.

        And even in honor of Trotsky and Yezhov, they named Gatchina and Cherkessk, respectively.
        In general, there were quite a few such renaming of cities in honor of famous Soviet personalities.
        1. Kayala
          Kayala 25 November 2021 15: 37
          -1
          Maybe there were a lot of them because they were really PERSONS and they deserved it?
          1. Woodman
            Woodman 25 November 2021 15: 42
            +2
            Quote: Kayala
            were they really PERSONS and did they deserve it?

            May be. But most of these cities were renamed again after 10-15 years ... Probably, it was not the people who determined how much they were PERSONALITIES ...
            1. Kayala
              Kayala 25 November 2021 15: 49
              +1
              You can’t argue here! hi
          2. Ol willy
            Ol willy 26 November 2021 17: 31
            -2
            Didn't Khrushchev deserve it? First satellite in space, first man in space, second jet passenger plane in the world, affordable housing program ...
    8. Victor Tsenin
      Victor Tsenin 25 November 2021 12: 10
      +10
      Here, you know, how many enemies will not try in vain to wipe out these great people, still nothing comes of it. And it will not work.
      1. Nyrobsky
        Nyrobsky 25 November 2021 13: 45
        +9
        Quote: Victor Tsenin
        Here, you know, how many enemies will not try in vain to wipe out these great people, still nothing comes out. And it will not work.

        It is what it is. People's memory often strongly does not coincide with the needs of the authorities.
    9. Barmal
      Barmal 25 November 2021 22: 50
      -1
      don't lie about the Russian Orthodox Church
    10. RoTTor
      RoTTor 25 November 2021 23: 18
      0
      "Communist Party" - FALSE communists, discrediting all leftist ideas, stubbornly and profitably parasitizing on the fact that they sluggishly imitate the opposition.
      These ... rashkin and sternin are obvious representatives.
      BUT the results show: the people and the Motherland need a real leftist party, only real socialism - the way of Russia.
  2. Vladimir_2U
    Vladimir_2U 25 November 2021 10: 13
    +16
    There are still more portraits of Stalin on cars than portraits of Nicholas II. )))
    1. svp67
      svp67 25 November 2021 10: 21
      +8
      Quote: Vladimir_2U
      There are still more portraits of Stalin on cars than portraits of Nicholas II. )))

      And the icons ... 10000 times more than them combined
      1. Vladimir_2U
        Vladimir_2U 25 November 2021 10: 27
        +12
        Quote: svp67
        And the icons ... 10000 times more than them combined

        Still, they would have followed the Christian precepts, and not instead of using seat belts and careful driving, it would have been just babbling. wink
  3. Million
    Million 25 November 2021 10: 13
    +12
    With the renaming of Leningrad, not everything is clear either.
    1. seti
      seti 25 November 2021 10: 23
      .
      Quote: Million
      With the renaming of Leningrad, not everything is clear either.

      Everything is clear here. Lenin is the killer and strangler of the Russian people. And Stalin again gave him hope for life. And it was not Lenin who founded St. Petersburg, but Peter 1. So here everything is in good conscience.
      And Volgograd sounds like something pathetic against the background of Stalingrad and even Tsaritsyn.
      1. tatra
        tatra 25 November 2021 11: 07
        0
        Your anti-Sovietism, enemies of the USSR and the Soviet people, this is not only slander against the Bolshevik communists, the main thing is that you justify YOUR crimes, and your accomplices of the invaders of Russia and the USSR, the interventionists and Nazis, with whom you unleashed two wars against Russia and the USSR, Russian / of the Soviet people, in which you killed more than 30 million Russian / Soviet citizens.
        1. seti
          seti 25 November 2021 11: 36
          .
          You are clearly delusional and check what degree you have in your bosom. What anti-Soviet that you are generally talking about.
          Will you argue about who founded St. Petersburg? And that on Lenin's hands is the blood of the Russian people and the destruction of the state? I was born in the USSR and I am proud of it. But there is no need to idealize all periods of Soviet power and ALL of its leaders. They were good for the country and the people, but not good. Lenin, in my understanding, is one of the latter - I do not impose my opinion on anyone.
          1. Doctor
            Doctor 25 November 2021 11: 46
            +1
            You are clearly delusional and check what degree you have in your bosom. What anti-Soviet that you are generally talking about.
            Will you argue about who founded St. Petersburg? And that on Lenin's hands is the blood of the Russian people and the destruction of the state? I was born in the USSR and I am proud of it. But there is no need to idealize all periods of Soviet power and ALL of its leaders. They were good for the country and the people, but not good. Lenin, in my understanding, is one of the latter - I do not impose my opinion on anyone.

            Somehow you are all confused. Without Lenin, there would be no USSR. wink
            1. Galleon
              Galleon 25 November 2021 12: 01
              .
              Quote: Arzt
              You are clearly delusional and check what degree you have in your bosom. What anti-Soviet that you are generally talking about.
              Will you argue about who founded St. Petersburg? And that on Lenin's hands is the blood of the Russian people and the destruction of the state? I was born in the USSR and I am proud of it. But there is no need to idealize all periods of Soviet power and ALL of its leaders. They were good for the country and the people, but not good. Lenin, in my understanding, is one of the latter - I do not impose my opinion on anyone.

              Somehow you are all confused. Without Lenin, there would be no USSR. wink

              Without Lenin - the USSR, and without Putin - the Russian Federation? Lenin was chosen as the main executor, his funding and move to Russia were organized through Parvus.
              Well, the USSR was organized in 1922, when Ilyich was already turning into a vegetable and other people were in charge of the republic. We just don't know much about those people - the history is well cleaned up and the name should have remained the same - which is glorified today.
              1. Doctor
                Doctor 25 November 2021 12: 06
                -5
                Without Lenin - the USSR, and without Putin - the Russian Federation? Lenin was chosen as the main executor, his funding and move to Russia were organized through Parvus.
                Well, the USSR was organized in 1922, when Ilyich was already turning into a vegetable and other people were in charge of the republic. We just don't know much about those people - the history is well cleaned up and the name should have remained the same - which is glorified today.

                Lenin is chosen, Parvus is a mediator ...
                Who are the main beneficiaries?
                Who are these great personalities who gave the USSR to the Russian people ?! lol
                1. Galleon
                  Galleon 25 November 2021 12: 19
                  -5
                  Quote: Arzt
                  Who are the main beneficiaries?

                  I will not offer a ready answer, think for yourself. Starikov makes a good and convincing analysis of the events of those years, for example. Or contact other authors.
                  Quote: Arzt
                  Who are these great personalities who gave the USSR to the Russian people ?!

                  Don't you remember who in the Leninist government dealt with the affairs of nationalities? Joseph Stalin.
                  1. Alexey RA
                    Alexey RA 25 November 2021 15: 17
                    +4
                    Quote: Galleon
                    Don't you remember who in the Leninist government dealt with the affairs of nationalities? Joseph Stalin.

                    And do not want to remember - what model of the USSR was proposed by a certain Joseph Stalin? And who used all his authority to mix this model with the dirt of "Great Russian chauvinism", pushing in its place the idea of ​​a confederation of sovereign states?
                    The USSR in the form in which we received it is entirely the merit of Vladimir Ilyich Lenin. The People's Commissariat of Education stood on completely different positions: the autonomies that are part of Russia. But at that time the People's Commissar of Nationalities could not compete with the almighty VIL and those who hid behind his name, especially taking into account Trotsky, who had been sharpening his teeth on him for a long time. So the IVS was forced to submit to party discipline.
                    1. Galleon
                      Galleon 25 November 2021 16: 53
                      +1
                      I don’t remember that. Nice and timely update. Thanks to.
            2. Alexey RA
              Alexey RA 25 November 2021 15: 12
              -1
              Quote: Arzt
              Somehow you are all confused. Without Lenin, there would be no USSR.

              Would be - the Bolshevik party did not end at VIL.
              On the other hand, without Lenin there would be no USSR in the form of 15 sovereign states - there would be Russia, uniting autonomies.
      2. Daniil Konovalenko
        Daniil Konovalenko 25 November 2021 11: 25
        +3
        And it was not Lenin who founded St. Petersburg, but Peter 1
        And what gave the city its name? The city was named in honor of St. Peter, in 1914, renamed, this time in honor of Tsar Peter I.
        Lenin is the killer and strangler of the Russian people.
        ..That is, it is blasphemy that the banners of the defeated Nazi Germany were thrown to the Lenin mausoleum wink
        1. seti
          seti 25 November 2021 11: 39
          .
          Do not confuse cold with hot and hides behind beautiful slogans.
          But what about these words of Lenin about the Russian people, the state and the individual ??? :
          "Ivashek" must be fooled.
          "We won't seize power without fooling" Ivashki "
          "And I don't care about Russia ..."
          "... So that they would not dare to think about any resistance for several decades."
          "The court should not eliminate terror, but justify and legitimize it in principle"
          "The intelligentsia is not the brain of the nation, but shit"
          "We need to encourage the energy and mass character of terror"
          “Under the guise of the 'greens' (we will blame them later) we will walk 10-20 versts and outweigh the kulaks, priests, landowners. Bonus: 100.000 RUB for the hanged man "
          "... the more bourgeoisie and clergy we manage to shoot on this occasion, the better"
          August 11, 1918 "
          1. Flooding
            Flooding 25 November 2021 12: 54
            +7
            Where did you get this from?
            Can you share some sources?
            1. Kayala
              Kayala 25 November 2021 14: 46
              +4
              Does he need them, these same sources? The main thing is shit on the fan, what would be more ... more!
              1. The comment was deleted.
                1. The comment was deleted.
              2. seti
                seti 25 November 2021 14: 58
                -7
                And for you personally, it's weak to check - you just throw shit on the fan. So did Lenin say those words that I wrote above or not? Spoke. Actions were for these words - they were. The country was destroyed - it was.
                Where did I lie ??

                Read Lenin's collections of phrases - there you will discover a lot of things. But you don't need that.
                1. Kayala
                  Kayala 25 November 2021 15: 07
                  +4
                  Where did Lenin say this? At rallies? Did you write this openly in your works? Did you post it on the Internet or did you tell you about it at the spiritualism session? fool
            2. The comment was deleted.
              1. The comment was deleted.
              2. Flooding
                Flooding 25 November 2021 16: 20
                0
                seti
                you need to learn how to work with sources.
                this will discipline you a little and teach you to take responsibility for your words.
            3. Alexey RA
              Alexey RA 25 November 2021 15: 30
              +1
              Quote: Flood
              Where did you get this from?
              Can you share some sources?

              Well, for example, the definition of a truly Russian person according to VIL:
              Under such conditions, it is very natural that the "freedom to withdraw from the union", by which we justify ourselves, will turn out to be an empty piece of paper, incapable of protecting Russian aliens from the invasion of that a truly Russian person, a Great Russian chauvinist, in essence, a scoundrel and a rapist, which is a typical Russian bureaucrat.
              © VIL. On the question of nationalities or "autonomization". December 30, 1922

              And it's funny that before, before becoming power, Comrade Lenin clearly divided the Russian bureaucrats and the Russian people. And now for him the typical Russian bureaucrat has become a truly Russian person. In fact, he shifted responsibility for the entire bureaucratic oppression of the Empire, carried out by its bureaucracy, onto the shoulders of the Russian people.

              And here is what internationalism is according to VIL:
              ... internationalism on the part of the oppressive or the so-called "great" nation (although great only by its violence, great only in the way that the Great Derzhimorda is) should consist not only in the observance of the formal equality of nations, but also in such inequality that would compensate for an oppressive nation, a large nation, the inequality that develops in life in fact. Whoever did not understand this, did not understand the really proletarian attitude towards the national question, he remained, in essence, on the point of view of the petty-bourgeois and therefore cannot but slip every minute to the bourgeois point of view.
              © VIL. On the question of nationalities or "autonomization". December 31, 1922

              That is, internationalism according to Lenin is when the Russian people should always pay and repent.
              1. Flooding
                Flooding 25 November 2021 21: 14
                +1
                Quote: Alexey RA
                Well, for example, the definition of a truly Russian person according to VIL

                what does this have to do with what your colleague brought here?
          2. DNS-a42
            DNS-a42 25 November 2021 15: 03
            +1
            Quote: seti
            But what about these words of Lenin about the Russian people, the state and the individual ??? :
            "Ivashek" must be fooled.

            Look less oligarchic Constantinople. Quotes are fake.
          3. Daniil Konovalenko
            Daniil Konovalenko 25 November 2021 16: 13
            +4
            Hear you slogans more than mine comment wink
      3. for
        for 25 November 2021 11: 38
        +2
        Quote: seti
        And it was not Lenin who founded St. Petersburg, but Peter 1

        Well, let it be then Saint Petrograd.
    2. svp67
      svp67 25 November 2021 10: 23
      +4
      Quote: Million
      With the renaming of Leningrad, not everything is clear either.

      how on account? If with the latter, then returned the HISTORICAL name
      1. Million
        Million 25 November 2021 10: 28
        +3
        Then it was necessary to rename Peter, as everyone calls it.
        If Leningrad is a hero, then why change the name?
        1. svp67
          svp67 25 November 2021 10: 32
          +4
          Quote: Million
          Then it was necessary to rename Peter, as everyone calls it.

          Forgive me, but earlier they wrote a lot of things on fences ... A city, not a fence. And if the same New York is called "the big apple", it doesn't mean that it needs to be renamed that way. There are historical names, proud and beautiful. St. Petersburg is one of them.
          1. Million
            Million 25 November 2021 10: 34
            +5
            it would be logical then to rename the area
            1. Daniil Konovalenko
              Daniil Konovalenko 25 November 2021 11: 31
              +1
              To assign the title of a hero to the Leningrad region, and to deprive St. Petersburg of this title, otherwise, as it sounds wildly, St. Petersburg is a hero city. The St. Petersburg metro seems to have been stripped of the name of Lenin and the order of his name.
            2. Andrey Zhdanov-Nedilko
              Andrey Zhdanov-Nedilko 25 November 2021 11: 39
              -7
              I propose, as an option, to rename the Leningrad Region into the "Nevsky Federal Separate District". It is both logical and historical and sounds good. Or - "Alexander Nevsky Federal District". It is also an option. I will submit this issue for consideration by the State Duma and the government in the near future.
            3. Alexey RA
              Alexey RA 25 November 2021 15: 32
              0
              Quote: Million
              it would be logical then to rename the area

              And the region has nothing to do with the city - these are different subjects of the Federation. The Leningrad region even has a capital in Gatchina. smile
          2. Stirbjorn
            Stirbjorn 25 November 2021 11: 18
            +5
            Quote: svp67
            And if the same New York is called "the big apple", it doesn't mean that it needs to be renamed that way.
            New York has a historical name New Amsterdam ... so your logic doesn't work here hi
            PS Leningrad is a proud and beautiful name
      2. tatra
        tatra 25 November 2021 11: 09
        0
        WHAT FOR ? What are you, enemies of the communists, like parrots, repeating everything after the Romanovs and the West?
        And if you are such fans of "historical names", then return the Soviet names to metro stations, including "Dzerzhinsky Square" in Moscow on Lubyanka.
        1. Doctor
          Doctor 25 November 2021 11: 49
          -4
          And if you are such fans of "historical names", then return the Soviet names to metro stations, including "Dzerzhinsky Square" in Moscow on Lubyanka.

          Dzerzhinsky is a remake. Historically - Lubyanskaya. laughing
    3. tihonmarine
      tihonmarine 25 November 2021 10: 33
      +4
      Quote: Million
      With the renaming of Leningrad, not everything is clear either.

      It was a good reason to disown the modern government, from the communist past, so that the people born after 1991 would forget the name of Lenin, and everything under a good pretext "Peter the Great founded the city, defeated the Swedes, and opened a window to Europe."
      And there are no dissatisfied.
      1. Daniil Konovalenko
        Daniil Konovalenko 25 November 2021 11: 32
        +2
        "Peter the Great founded the city, defeated the Swedes, and opened a window to Europe"
        The window closed, only the window was left open
        1. tihonmarine
          tihonmarine 25 November 2021 12: 03
          +3
          Quote: Daniil Konovalenko
          The window closed, only the window was left open

          There was a time when Yeltsin took out all the windows and doors, all the western rubbish wandered around Russia.
      2. Andrey Zhdanov-Nedilko
        Andrey Zhdanov-Nedilko 25 November 2021 11: 57
        -2
        Swedes have been defeated more than once in the past. And in general, let the Swedes thank God that we did not occupy them at the beginning of the XNUMXth century, otherwise they would have been the province of the Russian Empire! ...
    4. tatra
      tatra 25 November 2021 11: 04
      +5
      Sobchak's companion Yuri Shutov writes very interestingly in his book "The held citywide referendum revealed a complete discrepancy between the desire of residents and the selfish interests of Sobchak, but he still fulfilled the promise given to them in France and America, the city with the name" Leningrad "ceased to exist"
      1. tihonmarine
        tihonmarine 25 November 2021 12: 05
        +2
        Quote: tatra
        "The held citywide referendum revealed a complete discrepancy between the desire of residents and the selfish interests of Sobchak, but he nevertheless fulfilled the promise given to them in France and America, a city called Leningrad ceased to exist."

        But God saw everything.
  4. Woodman
    Woodman 25 November 2021 10: 13
    +17
    General Charles de Gaulle, characterizing Khrushchev in 1962, very accurately reflected the essence of his anti-Stalinism:

    “He is a cunning little man, and he wants to show everywhere and to everyone that he is radically different from Stalin. But, defaming his great predecessor and trying to eliminate the memory of him, Khrushchev discredits the USSR and even more so - the communist ideology. But Stalin did not become a thing of the past: he disappeared into the future. "

    Churchill put it more precisely:
    "Khrushchev is the only politician in the history of mankind who has declared war on the dead. But more than that, he managed to lose it."
    1. Ol willy
      Ol willy 26 November 2021 17: 39
      -2
      The fat pervert knew better than that. More disgusting creature than Churchill, still need to look
  5. rocket757
    rocket757 25 November 2021 10: 14
    +13
    When the next come to power by deception, it is not right, etc. they, as a rule, begin to squirm the story, adjusting it to their wishes.
  6. paul3390
    paul3390 25 November 2021 10: 26
    +13
    Stalin was the greatest ruler in our history .. And no matter how much the current bourgeoisie tried to denigrate his name and his great deeds, dirt cannot stick to the Supreme's snow-white tunic in principle. And the longer we live under capitalism, the clearer we realize what we have profited by our own stupidity. And the clearer the understanding of what to do with all this and where to go further. Only Soviet power in the Stalinist version, if at all we want to survive as a country and a people! For the liberals will definitely drive us into the grave.

    No matter how hard they try to hush up his name, no matter how much they lie to us about those times, the memory of Comrade Stalin among the people is only growing stronger. And no matter how embarrassingly the mausoleum is nailed up at the Victory Day parade, for people our Supreme Commander-in-Chief is invisibly standing on it anyway. And the bourgeois cannot do anything about it.
  7. tihonmarine
    tihonmarine 25 November 2021 10: 27
    +15
    Words by De Gaulle
  8. ivan2022
    ivan2022 25 November 2021 10: 43
    +8
    A synonym for the word State, a personality of the scale of the "iron chancellor" - - Bismarck. Or Napoleon. But in contrast to them, Stalin rose as the leader of the party in the second half of the 20s - in a democratic way. And only before the war - in 1940 he took a position in the government.
    This is probably why he was declared a "tyrant" and. the "main executioners" were precisely those whose path lay through participation in the coup d'etat of 1953. And in the execution of the Congress of People's Deputies in October 1993.
    1. tihonmarine
      tihonmarine 25 November 2021 12: 10
      +1
      Quote: ivan2022
      This is probably why he was declared a "tyrant" and. the "main executioners" were precisely those whose path lay through participation in the coup d'etat of 1953. And in the execution of the Congress of People's Deputies in October 1993.

      No state can do without them, and even more so in Russia, since there have always been and are hidden adherents of the West.
    2. Ol willy
      Ol willy 26 November 2021 17: 41
      -1
      But in contrast to them, Stalin rose as the leader of the party in the second half of the 20s - in a democratic way.

      Yeah. As general secretary of the All-Union Communist Party of Bolsheviks, he placed his people in middle positions, thereby securing support for himself at all congresses. After the "Leninist draft" he secured support for himself in the lower ranks. And with the tops he already figured out for his pleasure - he was in two triumvirates, and then turned against both of them.
  9. Jacket in stock
    Jacket in stock 25 November 2021 10: 53
    .
    Again these lamentations about the "enemies of the communists".
    Again, black and white assessments.
    Stalin was not a saint, he was far from being. But not all of his deeds were criminal.
    And the fact that he is still more popular than the others is not because Stalin is so great, but because the others are so petty.
    1. tatra
      tatra 25 November 2021 11: 14
      -5
      Ha, that's it. YOU, enemies of the communists, in the leaders of the republics of the USSR that you captured, have changed more than the ruling Romanovs and the leaders of the Soviet State combined, but you yourself recognized all the leaders of States that you imposed on your country and people as bad.
      1. Jacket in stock
        Jacket in stock 25 November 2021 12: 33
        -3
        Quote: tatra
        Ha, that's it. YOU, enemies of the communists, in the leaders

        You, who is this?
        If you come here personally to me, then in vain, I have never been a leader, and did not capture anything.
        And if for you "YOU" is everyone who is not me, well, I sympathize.
        Although you will not understand, madmen are usually not aware of their illness.
    2. tihonmarine
      tihonmarine 25 November 2021 12: 14
      0
      Quote: Jacket in stock
      Again these lamentations about the "enemies of the communists".
      Again, black and white assessments.

      And here there can be no other shades, only "either an enemy or a friend."
      But now all the shades and colors have appeared. Only that's what is better, black and white, or everything in color.
    3. Alex_1973
      Alex_1973 25 November 2021 23: 13
      0
      Jacket in stock (Konstantin)
      And the fact that he is still more popular than the others is not because Stalin is so great, but because the others are so petty.
      Who is this small grass? Churchill, Roosevelt, Truman, De Gaulle, Mao Zedong ?! All of them unanimously recognized Stalin's greatest authority, even Churchill, according to his confessions, was shy and lost against his background. Do you mean to say that Churchill (with all my disrespect for him) is petty?
      I'm just wondering if they are small-grained, then who are you against their background at all? Louse?
      1. Jacket in stock
        Jacket in stock 26 November 2021 05: 48
        0
        Quote: Alex_1973
        Churchill, Roosevelt, Truman, De Gaulle, Mao Zedong?

        What have they got to do with it?
        Are we kind of about popularity with our people?
        What do I care about DeGol?
        We are here about Khrushchev, Malenkov, Brezhnev, Gtrbachev, Yeltsin ...
        if they are small-grained, then who are you against them? Louse?
        Well, I don’t climb into the leader, why should I be equal with them?
        Although, maybe I'm even better than them, at least I didn't kill anyone.
  10. serg.shishkov2015
    serg.shishkov2015 25 November 2021 10: 56
    +6
    Behind each back was its own Stalingrad!
    And in the frozen trenches- Not a step back!
    And yet, and still, and still
    We won!
    1. tihonmarine
      tihonmarine 25 November 2021 12: 20
      0
      Quote: serg.shishkov2015
      And in the frozen trenches- Not a step back!
      And yet, and still, and still
      We won!

      So there was nowhere to retreat, Russia was behind our fathers and grandfathers.
  11. ViacheslavS
    ViacheslavS 25 November 2021 10: 58
    .
    Do not make yourself an idol (s). Sometimes one gets the impression that in VO there is simply a sect of believers in Stalin, just as believers, first of all, Christians have faith in the infallibility of God, and here in the infallibility of Stalin, any criticism, doubt in Stalin is not permissible.
    1. tatra
      tatra 25 November 2021 11: 16
      -3
      For people like you, the history of your country and people is a void, or a reason to be angry AGAINST.
      1. ViacheslavS
        ViacheslavS 25 November 2021 12: 04
        .
        I already wrote here, I personally do not experience a strong negative specifically towards Stalin, there was a problem that the state tried to build what could not be achieved and what was not natural for a person, first of all I mean socialism.
        1. ivan2022
          ivan2022 25 November 2021 15: 08
          +2
          Quote: ViacheslavS
          the state, tried to build what could not be achieved and what was not natural for a person, first of all I mean socialism

          Naturally, it is when people realize their overall economic benefits. And they pass laws that realize these benefits. For example, in Norway it is quite natural that the country's natural resources provide an acceptable living standard for the people. In Finland, too. Many in Russia would like to live there .... because there is "socialism" or its important elements. And it is unnatural when the people for decades "survive" in the 21st century in the richest country in the world (you have to contrive !!), but votes in the elections for those who trample and rob them ...... In your opinion, the latter is natural? But in my opinion, no.
          1. ViacheslavS
            ViacheslavS 25 November 2021 15: 14
            0
            For example, in Norway it is quite natural that the country's natural resources provide an acceptable living standard for the people. In Finland, too. Many in Russia would like to live there .... because there is "socialism" or its important elements.


            Only neither Norway nor Finland is close to any socialism, especially in the form they tried to build in the USSR.

            And it is unnatural when the people for decades "survive" in the 21st century in the richest country in the world (you have to contrive !!), but votes in the elections for those who trample and rob them ...... In your opinion, the latter is natural? But in my opinion, no.


            With all the survival, the people never lived as well as they live in modern Russia, nor when did the common Russian person have such a standard of living and such opportunities that they have now.
            1. ivan2022
              ivan2022 25 November 2021 18: 19
              +2
              Quote: ViacheslavS
              With all the survival, the people have never lived as well as they live in modern Russia

              What country do you live in? In the USSR, there was no mobile connection with the Internet - Heh ... heh .... Are you on this topic or what?

              In terms of life expectancy, the USSR was in the top 70 countries of the world in the early 10s, and now the Russian Federation is not included in the top 100. The number of Russians is steadily now only decreasing .......A good life ? And as for the "opportunities" - except for the opportunity to buy a used foreign car with an average salary of 580 dollars, I don't see any opportunities. As the politician Khakamada once said; no money - open a business! Are you not related to her?

              It is necessary to compare our time not with the USSR, but with other countries of the world. UN rating for countries in terms of living standards; Russia after place number 50, between Kazakhstan and Belarus. And Norway is one of the first places.

              What do you think, here you will be believed that all the events of the early 90s took place in order to provide "opportunities" for the "common man"? Unlikely. And then where do these opportunities come from?

              The people must fight for real opportunities, they do not grow on branches, opportunities are something. These popular movements are called "socialist" - they give the peoples of Europe at comparable prices wages 3-6 times higher than in the richest country in the world - Russia.
              And what about the kind of socialism that was not in the USSR?
              I doubt that you have read the primary sources and generally understand the meaning of this word correctly ...
              1. ViacheslavS
                ViacheslavS 25 November 2021 18: 49
                -4
                In terms of life expectancy, the USSR was in the top 70 countries of the world in the early 10s, and now the Russian Federation is not in the top 100. The number of Russians is steadily decreasing now ....... Good life?


                I quickly googled, the average life expectancy in Russia is higher than in the USSR. As for the decline in the Russian population, this is a non-linear demography of the standard of living, in whatever Nepal, on the contrary, the population is growing at a record pace.
                It is necessary to compare our time not with the USSR, but with other countries of the world. UN rating for countries in terms of living standards; Russia after place number 50, between Kazakhstan and Belarus. And Norway is one of the first places.


                Or maybe you need to compare something comparable, Norway with five million population (as in the same bottom of St. Petersburg) with all of Russia. Choose equal countries, USA, Brazil, India, China. I live in the Czech Republic, but at the same time, in terms of living standards, I see no reason to equate with Russia, because there are completely different categories.

                What do you think, here you will be believed that all the events of the early 90s took place in order to provide "opportunities" for the "common man"? Unlikely. And then where do these opportunities come from?


                In the sense of where, the state fully provides schools, institutions. The problem is in people, well, everyone seems to know that an engineer just needs to know English at a minimum level of B1, which will allow him to read the latest technical literature, articles in the original and keep abreast of world technical progress, and in practice, in Russia, there is a very low command of English.
            2. Charlie
              Charlie 25 November 2021 20: 10
              -1
              Due to widespread consumer lending
              1. ViacheslavS
                ViacheslavS 25 November 2021 20: 19
                -1
                certainly including, but in the USSR and consumer crediting would not help.
                1. Charlie
                  Charlie 25 November 2021 20: 48
                  -2
                  It makes no sense to compare planned and market economies. Or what is being built there now. Moreover, the USSR had a deficit of everything.
            3. Alex_1973
              Alex_1973 25 November 2021 23: 20
              0
              ViacheslavS (Viacheslav)
              With all the survival, the people never lived as well as they live in modern Russia, nor when did the common Russian person have such a standard of living and such opportunities that they have now.
              I wonder what such opportunities do I have now? Not live to see the pension I earned? Are these all perspectives? What a wonderful life we ​​have, I'm just simply amazed how I survived in Soviet times without paid medicine, paid education, without genetically modified products ... UzhOssss ... Excuse me, but you are not sick for an hour? Because such raving nonsense can be written either by a mentally ill, or by an oligarch whose life is definitely a success, but since oligarchs have never been born in VO, the conclusion about your state of mind suggests itself!
              1. ViacheslavS
                ViacheslavS 26 November 2021 11: 34
                -2
                How exactly does the state prevent you from living up to retirement?
                By the way, Putin's main electorate is just pensioners and people of a conscious age who have lived in the USSR.
                And you noticed well about the products, I now remember the moments when we started to collect food on the New Year's table in spring, there, somewhere they will bring peas, somewhere they will give out some rations. With wine it was easier, a relative was a submariner and they were supposed to have red wine, so he brought a whole box.
                And as for medicine, what is now available free of charge in district and city polyclinics, in the USSR it was possible to get it by great pull, I generally keep quiet about dentistry.
                Well, since you are making diagnoses here on the Internet, then I will assume that you were born in the 90s and never lived in the USSR otherwise such a raving nonsense can be carried by a strangled patient.
                1. Alex_1973
                  Alex_1973 26 November 2021 16: 24
                  -1
                  Well, since you are making diagnoses here on the Internet, then I will assume that you were born in the 90s and never lived in the USSR otherwise such a raving nonsense can be carried by a strangled patient.
                  About the mentally ill, this is most likely about you!
                  And as for medicine, what is now available free of charge in district and city polyclinics, in the USSR it could be obtained by great pull
                  What does the district clinic give now? Illiterate doctors who are not able to make a normal diagnosis? Or maybe they prescribe medicines for free in the clinic? Have you been to the clinic for a long time? All a little bit literate doctors have long fled to private clinics, there are only mediocrities left who are not needed in private medicine for nothing. There are no doctors, there is a queue for a therapist for a week in advance.
                  It’s you who are mentally ill if you’re talking about such crap!
                  1. ViacheslavS
                    ViacheslavS 26 November 2021 16: 41
                    -2
                    So, in the end, how does the state prevent you from living up to retirement?
                    1. Alex_1973
                      Alex_1973 26 November 2021 20: 37
                      0
                      ViacheslavS (Viacheslav)
                      So, in the end, how does the state prevent you from living up to retirement?
                      Are you kind of so dumb that you don't understand? My father was 63 years old when he died (did not smoke or drink heavily, died of cancer), my father-in-law was 64 years old (quit smoking at 35, drank moderately, died of a blood clot ruptured), so at least they lived to retire. And what are my prospects, taking into account the fact that the pension has been pushed back from 60 to 65 ?!
                      Do you need more explanations or have you still not got it?

                      God forbid and Putin, that you and your loved ones live up to retirement, and you would have her darling at 12-15 tyrov enough for a comfortable life ...!
      2. Ol willy
        Ol willy 26 November 2021 17: 44
        -2
        the history of your country and people is a void, or a reason for malice AGAINST.

        It's funny to hear that from the communists. Who demolished monuments, renamed cities, blew up churches, rewrote history, declared the thousand-year history of Russia "a millennium of obscurantism and slavery"?
    2. Doctor
      Doctor 25 November 2021 11: 29
      .
      Do not make yourself an idol (s). Sometimes one gets the impression that in VO there is simply a sect of believers in Stalin, just as believers, first of all, Christians have faith in the infallibility of God, and here in the infallibility of Stalin, any criticism, doubt in Stalin is not permissible.

      They are just very active. But fortunately, a new generation is growing up with critical thinking.
      1. ivan2022
        ivan2022 25 November 2021 18: 30
        +1
        Quote: Arzt
        fortunately, the new generation is growing up with critical thinking.

        If so, everything is great ... But I suspect that the thinking of the new generation = the thinking of the 18th century serf. Except for groveling before the boss, the master, hopes for their own strengths and "maybe" - nothing. The ability to collectively organize for the sake of getting a decent job and living conditions is absent. No reasonable social movements, at least trade union ones, no cooperation at least at the everyday level .... Every man for himself! They only know how to poop into the well dug by their ancestors ... Only this is very powerful !!
        1. The comment was deleted.
    3. Andrey Zhdanov-Nedilko
      Andrey Zhdanov-Nedilko 25 November 2021 12: 22
      -1
      Glory to the Great Stalin!
    4. Kittymoore
      Kittymoore 25 November 2021 14: 17
      -4
      Well, as it were, it is. Worshiping Koba is purely religious in nature. But he loved that, so everything is ok)
  12. Boris63
    Boris63 25 November 2021 11: 03
    .
    I'll write about the fact of the title ... Not everyone lived with his name, as it was said after his death, "half the country cried, and half of the country laughed," but they definitely died not with his name, but with the words "Lord save and save." No one at such moments said: Party, save Stalin ... except that when they wrote the petition, they were thinking about God. The mausoleum ... initially it was conceived that it was temporary so that more people could "say goodbye" before the funeral, then the "thought" came ... We fight with God, we need a new "god" and built imperishable relics. Stalin, on the other hand, "decided" to become a living "god", which he eventually did for a certain part of the population of the USSR. On the achievements of that period, in comparison to now, I will not write anything, because even in "developed socialism" a saying appeared: you are the owner here, not a guest ... drag every nail from the factory.
    1. Daniil Konovalenko
      Daniil Konovalenko 25 November 2021 11: 40
      +5
      you are the owner here, not the guest ... take every nail from the factory.
      They happily stole it, and even like the republics ... but they started with carnations .. gained experience, they do not drag everything and not nails ... they can plant a carnation for a piece stolen, but for the stolen millions and collapse .. you will simply become a witness of your own theft, and they will also be promoted to leading positions .. wink
  13. nikvic46
    nikvic46 25 November 2021 11: 21
    +4
    It is important to understand why we honor the name of Stalin. If strengthening the current system is one thing. If we really understood the advantage of those years, this is another.
    1. Doctor
      Doctor 25 November 2021 11: 53
      .
      It is important to understand why we honor the name of Stalin. If strengthening the current system is one thing. If we really understood the advantage of those years, this is another.

      There were no advantages. The worst time to live in the country in the history of Russia. yes
  14. The comment was deleted.
  15. The comment was deleted.
    1. Doctor
      Doctor 25 November 2021 13: 42
      -6
      Esas cosas solo pasan en Rusia.

      Such things are found everywhere.
      In Spain the last time is Francisco Franco.
      1. AHTONOB
        AHTONOB 25 November 2021 18: 20
        0
        Algo de eso hay pero no exactamente igual. Como el reparto de Polonia, el pacto Molotob Ribbentrop acordó que España y su Wolframio, fueran para Hitler a través de su testaferro Franco. Y esa guerra, no la ganó Franco, la ganaron Hitler, Mussolini; mercenarios africanos, (moros) y el Partido Comunista de España, que siguiendo las instrucciones de Stalin, trabajo para la derrota de la República y de la Revolución española.
        1. Doctor
          Doctor 25 November 2021 19: 10
          -2
          Algo de eso hay pero no exactamente igual. Como el reparto de Polonia, el pacto Molotob Ribbentrop acordó que España y su Wolframio, fueran para Hitler a través de su testaferro Franco. Y esa guerra, no la ganó Franco, la ganaron Hitler, Mussolini; mercenarios africanos, (moros) y el Partido Comunista de España, que siguiendo las instrucciones de Stalin, trabajo para la derrota de la República y de la Revolución española.

          Franco won the war.
          Where are Hitler, Mussolini, Spanish Communists and Africans now?

          Candillo survived everyone. And raised Spain. love
          1. AHTONOB
            AHTONOB 25 November 2021 20: 11
            -1
            Una precisión al comentario anterior. La oficialización del pacto Ribbentrop-Molotov fue inmediata a la "victoria de Franco". Lo que no puedo decir, es, que la entrega de España a Hitler fuera una exigencia previa de este, o, un presente de Stalin al "Hermano pueblo Nazionalsocialista alemán, como prueba de afecto y lealtad de la URSS"
            Sobre Franco, solo diré que fue un hombre de paja oportunista; un superviviente, que se sometió a Hitler primero ya Eisenhower cuando el primero, desapareció. Lleno España de bases militares norteamericanas, y sus seguidores, solo pudieron elegir entre ensalzar al hombrecillo o el paredón de ejecución. España ya estaba moribunda, porque en la Guerra Civil Española, no se podaron las ramas enfermas, sino las sanas.
  16. ivan2022
    ivan2022 25 November 2021 13: 04
    +6
    Quote: Boris63
    Stalin, on the other hand, "decided" to become a living "god", which he eventually did for a certain part of the population of the USSR. ...

    And how do you know that he "decided" there about himself? I suppose they were sitting under the bed? And why did he "decide" - to do it was no longer a fig? Or did he explain it to you? You know what ? Nobody is interested in your hypotheses about Stalin's "innermost thoughts" ........ he was the leader of the ruling party, and its function in any country in the world is not "making God", but
    formation of laws that distribute budget cash flows ...
    Where for what and how much. And one "certain part of the population" was happy with it, while the other did not. that's all .... and we don't need to lie about "decided to become a god", okay?

    I must note that among the "ordinary people", especially among the commentators on the Web, I find a lot with oddities and "cockroaches". But among the bosses, the percentage of normal people is close to 100%. Whatever image they sculpted for them. By the way, Stalin worked from 1923 to 1940 in elective offices ..... he was not the crown prince.
    Even when our blessed society made him a "living God" ... according to the Russian folk tradition. In our country, regardless of the legislation, the highest boss, if not in the position of "god" - then in the position of Tsar, is a must. It doesn't matter the General Secretary or the President. This is a property of "the country of slaves - the land of masters", not Stalin ...
  17. north 2
    north 2 25 November 2021 16: 47
    -5
    only with shudder and disgust can one imagine if the current communists-Zyuganovites would win and rename Volgograd to Stalingrad. The same feelings would have to be experienced if Volgograd was renamed Stalingrad by the now victorious United Russia Putinists. .. It would be just a masquerade. After all, when in May both those and those carry photographs of the dead soldiers of the Immortal Regiment, then the souls of the dead Soviet soldiers look at it from heaven and shout, - and where is this country for which Soviet soldiers with the name of Stalin on their lips died for Victory, shout, that They did not die for such a country, and who their country, the USSR, what enemy, won and destroyed, since this country does not exist.
    How many names of Stalin are there, and why, have been returned to Georgia, this is the business of Georgia. When the names of Stalin are returned to Russia, it should not be a masquerade or PR, this should mean an epiphany that Stalin, along with Ivan the Terrible, were those Great people whom the enemies of Russia always tried to turn into bogeymen and murderers. Why are there enemies from outside. Their own, starting with the pack of Khrushchev and ending with the horde of Gorbachev-Yeltsin, though a dime a dozen. It is not for them and not for their former party members to rename Volgograd to Stalingrad.
    1. ivan2022
      ivan2022 25 November 2021 18: 47
      +1
      Quote: north 2
      only with shudder and disgust can one imagine if the current communists-Zyuganovites would have won

      If we won democratically - by fair elections - it would be a victory for democracy! And such things should not cause any shudder, "I like it - I don't like it ..." - but I would have to accept it. Yeltsin actually defeated everyone in October 1993 with tanks ... and nothing? No shudders? I am shuddering, for example, from the fact that the results of any elections cause strong doubts, and what about you?
      If "Uncle Zu" wins, you would be reprogrammed in no time, just as you programmed today ... and that's all! There are tens of millions of people like you ..... where the media blows, you lean there, there won't be any big problems here.
      1. Nyrobsky
        Nyrobsky 25 November 2021 21: 24
        -1
        Quote: ivan2022
        If "Uncle Ziu" wins, you would be reprogrammed in no time, just as it was programmed today ... and that's all! There are tens of millions of people like you ... where the media blows, there you lean,

        For the fact that in the last elections the communists strained the United Russia gang, this power is recouped on the communists through the setup of Rashkin on the elk. Yes, he flunked the elk, with whom he does not happen, but he is not so stupid as to cross out his career due to an unbridled desire to fill up some wild, horned cattle. A clean setup, to illuminate and document which, in some miraculous way, gamekeepers, cops and correspondents with cameras and pre-prepared questions like - What faction do you represent? I must admit that he is not convincing, but this only confirms that he had no experience of poaching, since a normal poacher is well-versed enough and would give such arguments that the huntsmen should have said thanks to him.
        1. place
          place 26 November 2021 15: 22
          +1
          Quote: Nyrobsky
          normal poacher is well-grounded enough

          Yes, they write like this: " The power structures of Russia are not under the control of hunting supervision on the territory of hunting farms. Therefore, judges and the prosecutor's office cannot be checked, and the FSB and police officers easily hide behind the need to conduct "special" operations. " Therefore, everything here is "grabbed" very cool. You just have to go with the judge you know - if there is one, everything will be all right!
  18. faterdom
    faterdom 25 November 2021 19: 54
    +1
    Of course, Stalingrad must be returned to the people.
    For he is not only, and not so much "Stalin", with whom Khrushchev famously fought posthumously, but his own big name in History, before which all the Crissy, Catalaunian hills and even Gaugamela with Thermopylae and Cannes do not have such a scale and consequences for all mankind ...
    And Stalin does not need officialdom, but God forbid that Peskov or Zakharova was instructed to praise him, this would greatly damage his image. And his image lives on among the people, by the way, unlike Lenin, about whom they forcibly pumped the mantra "forever alive" by whole generations - you can see the effect yourself.
    Now ask who, who is our "everliving" - so Khambolama Itygelov, who else?
  19. Altmann
    Altmann 25 November 2021 21: 11
    +5
    Stalin svoji politikou vytvořil velké Rusko, ptám se, proč jste Vy Rusové Rusko zničili. Velké Rusko mělo sílu i pro nás, malé státy Evropy. On věděl co dělá!
    1. Konnick
      Konnick 25 November 2021 21: 14
      +2
      Stalin created a great Russia with his policy, I ask why you Russians destroyed Russia. Great Russia was powerful even for us, the small states of Europe. He knew what he was doing!

      Hard to disagree
    2. place
      place 26 November 2021 15: 31
      0
      Quote: Altmann
      Stalin svoji politikou vytvořil velké Rusko, ptám se, proč jste Vy Rusové Rusko zničili. Velké Rusko mělo sílu i pro nás, malé státy Evropy. On věděl co dělá!

      As far as I understand, "why was it destroyed?" Because for centuries they dreamed of living like "white people in the West." In other words; foolishly ..... for the same foolishness, for which now Ukraine wants to be in NATO and the European Union. Instead of working hard and sharing what you earn fairly. This thought has not yet occurred to us ...
  20. RoTTor
    RoTTor 25 November 2021 23: 06
    +1
    TRUTH WONS!
    Although slower than we would like.
    65 years of vile cocoa-ruse treacherous slander against STALIN
    could not kill the people's love, faith and respect for the Leader.
    This means that the Motherland will be reborn in all its strength and greatness!
  21. Ol willy
    Ol willy 26 November 2021 17: 09
    0
    Let's return Volgograd to its historical name!









    Tsaritsyn!
  22. Yulian
    Yulian 26 November 2021 19: 19
    -2
    This cult to Stalin is some kind of inexplicable masochism of the Russians. When, in two years of war, the USSR lost its entire typesetting army and the Germans miraculously did not take Moscow only six months after the start of the war, where was Comrade Stalin?
    1. Mordvin 3
      Mordvin 3 26 November 2021 20: 04
      0
      Quote: Julian
      where was comrade Stalin?

      In Moscow.
      1. Yulian
        Yulian 27 November 2021 05: 00
        0
        If he was in Moscow and not on Mars, then he is responsible for all the gross mistakes, starting with the fact that he did not expect an attack from Germany before she ends the war with England.
        1. Mordvin 3
          Mordvin 3 27 November 2021 09: 08
          0
          Quote: Julian
          since he did not expect a German attack before she ended the war with England.

          Stalin was quite expecting an attack from Germany.
          1. Yulian
            Yulian 27 November 2021 12: 03
            0
            And how did you prepare for the baby? Did you issue an order not to succumb to German provocations? And for the biggest defeats of the Red Army near Kiev and Vyazma, Comrade Stalin is also a bad thing? For comparison, each of them is equal to three Stalingrad.
            1. Mordvin 3
              Mordvin 3 27 November 2021 19: 15
              0
              Quote: Julian
              Did you issue an order not to succumb to German provocations?

              And what's wrong with this order if the enemy is obviously stronger?
              Quote: Julian
              And for the biggest defeats of the Red Army near Kiev and Vyazma, Comrade Stalin is also a bad thing? For comparison, each of them is equal to three Stalingrad.

              The end result outweighs. You there, Bulgarians (?), Did nothing at all.