Military Review

According to the laws of wartime: excess mortality is growing in Russia

451

Source: vostokmedia.com


Stubborn statistics


At the risk of being once again subjected to public condemnation on the Voennoye Obozreniye portal, at the beginning of the article I will cite the positive data of Rosstat over the past 19 years.

During this period, since 2002, Russia has observed positive trends in mortality reduction and an increase in life expectancy. If you believe the state statistics, every year Russians lived better and better - the number of deaths was systematically decreasing.

If at the beginning of the period in 2002 more than 2,3 million people died in Russia, then by 2019 this sad figure had dropped to 1,8 million. in absolute terms, it should fall. For this, there is a parameter of the general mortality rate, measured in ppm (one tenth of a percent or one thousandth). So, from 2002 to 2019, this ratio decreased from 16,2 to 12,3.

There are many reasons for this dynamics.

Here, the growth of GDP, and an increase in the standard of living of Russians, and the fight against drunkenness, and more effective work of law enforcement agencies - to kill and get into fatal accidents have become less common. And yes, medicine did not disappoint. Despite all the admonitions of skeptics, medical care for Russians has improved in recent years.

Of course, this is still not enough to meet world standards, but in comparison with Russia at the beginning of the XNUMXst century, the treatment is now better.

An indirect indicator of health care progress is life expectancy, which was recorded in 2019 - 73,34 years. This is not much - 96th place in the world ranking.

Russians usually live longer, for example, in Venezuela, Bangladesh, Belarus and Colombia. Not to mention the countries of the "golden billion" with a life expectancy of more than 80 years.

Nevertheless, in 2002, Russians lived even less - an average of 65 years. Growth in more than eight years is not amazing, but at least it is a positive dynamic.

All of the above does not in any way idealize the state of the social sphere in modern Russia, but it allows us to understand with what margin we have approached the COVID-19 pandemic.

Disaster


With the death toll from the coronavirus, things are very difficult.

For a year and a half we have become accustomed to the official statistics of the Stopkoronavirus.ru portal, which provides operational data every day. The data for the site is formed by Rospotrebnadzor and here it is very different from the calculations of Rosstat. As the latest statistical report has shown, the number of deaths on Stopkoronavirus.ru is 2,2 times less than in reality. And here, apparently, there is no malicious intent - it is far from always possible to accurately determine the cause of a person's death. Therefore, in Russia, deaths from coronavirus are recorded only in the most obvious cases.

At the same time, a clearly defined strategy has not appeared in the world - who is considered a victim of COVID-19, and who is not. In some countries, all who died with a positive test for coronavirus are considered dead from the new infection. In the United States, for example, a very interesting situation has developed, when in 2020 the number of victims of influenza and cardiovascular diseases decreased. At the same time, there were many more deaths from coronavirus.

Have Americans gotten less colds and heart ailments?

Of course not, just one size fits all coronavirus now register deaths with symptoms similar to COVID-19.

As a result, there is a real "idyll" in US medicine - at the end of 2020, 352,5 thousand citizens died from the coronavirus, and the excess mortality rate is 334 thousand. True, the New York Times refutes these numbers in the summer of 2021, pointing to 482 thousand victims. excess mortality in the United States.

Who to believe in the end is not completely clear.

If we focus on the available data, in Russia last year, 2 million 124,5 thousand people died. And this is a serious drop relative to 2019.

In total, excess mortality claimed 2020 thousand citizens in 324, which is 18% more than in the previous year. According to this parameter, the country slipped twelve years ago, and life expectancy fell from 73,34 to 71,5 years. If you do not know about the coronavirus cause of such mortality, you might think that Russia has entered the bloodiest war.

Unfortunately, this war is only getting worse this year - in nine months we see an excess death rate of almost 250 thousand people. In total, since the beginning of the pandemic, we have lost 574 thousand people. And there is no reason to believe that the pandemic will slow down its spread in the fall-winter of 2021.

Worst of all, from January to August, the excess of the number of deaths over births was a gigantic 675,7 thousand! In a pandemic, citizens not only die faster, but also hesitate to have children. In terms of this demographic parameter, Russia has returned to its 2002 position.

Rosstat assures that up to 76% of all excess deaths in 2020-2021 are due to coronavirus and related complications. Right now we are on the verge of yet another demographic hole, the consequences of which will affect Russian society for decades to come.

Fuel was added to the fire from across the ocean.

Came the other day news from the Financial Times on excess mortality in Russia for the entire pandemic of 753 thousand people. Allegedly, according to this indicator, our country is in the sad second place in the world after the United States. Very dubious calculations of the Americans, given the confusion with the calculation of their own citizens. Nevertheless, the Financial Times urges not to believe Rosstat data, but to focus on American opinion. Apparently, from across the ocean you can see better.

Regional features of mortality from COVID-19 are also of considerable interest.

In 2020, the highest relative mortality rates were recorded in the Republic of Bashkortostan, Chechnya, Lipetsk and Leningrad regions. It is noteworthy that in the Chechen Republic, known for its tough antiquated measures, they could not overcome the high mortality rate. The reasons for this paradox, as well as the extremely high mortality rate in Bashkiria, have not yet been found.

Examples of Moscow and St. Petersburg are typical, which last year accounted for 26% of all irrecoverable losses from coronavirus. However, these cities did not record a spike in deaths from other diseases not related to COVID-19. This indicates a high level of organization of local medicine, which has not gone into permanent shock.

Large numbers of deaths in Russia are very interesting data for large-scale statistical studies. Scientists from Moscow tried to find factors explaining the different death rates from COVID-19 in 85 regions of the country. It turned out that the density of railways and the level of urbanization directly affect the number of deaths from coronavirus in the constituent entity of the Russian Federation.

I must say, quite an expected result.

The surprise was the lack of a direct link between the availability of hospital beds, doctors, nurses and mortality from a new infection. The reason for this is the high mobility of the state, which managed to transfer the necessary resources and specialists to “hot spots” in time, in many respects leveling the chances of the regions for survival.

No matter how trite it sounds, the main reasons for such a high rate of growth in mortality are in the new, much more dangerous strain "Delta", as well as in the low proportion of vaccinated people.

Most of our compatriots preferred the strict rules of natural selection to herd immunity. You can read about what this ultimately can lead to from Uncle Darwin.

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  1. The comment was deleted.
  2. parusnik
    parusnik 9 November 2021 05: 48
    +8
    "- Day by day we live more and more merrily and more wonderful!
    - Listen, Earth, we will sing you a song about vaccinations. "(C) smile
    1. Grandfather
      Grandfather 9 November 2021 06: 07
      -15
      You can read about what this ultimately can lead to from Uncle Darwin.
      which one came from a monkey? laughing
      1. parusnik
        parusnik 9 November 2021 06: 11
        +9
        You can read about what this ultimately can lead to from Uncle Darwin.
        And this is written in my commentary?
        1. military_cat
          military_cat 9 November 2021 06: 33
          +20
          Nevertheless, the Financial Times urges not to believe Rosstat data, but to focus on American opinion. Apparently, from across the ocean is more visible.

          Rosstat does not count excess mortality. The FT does not count excess mortality either. The calculations in question were made by the scientists Karlinsky and Kobak. They are in open form on the github. And yet, in the article there are old data. A few days ago, Rosstat released an update on mortality data, on the basis of which they recalculated the excess mortality - Russia has already bypassed the United States (even despite the difference in population size).



          Here, of course, one must understand that there are countries where no one simply counts the corpses, and it is impossible to calculate the excess mortality for them. It is likely that excess mortality in India is higher than in Russia.
          1. parusnik
            parusnik 9 November 2021 06: 37
            +10
            Nevertheless, the Financial Times urges not to believe Rosstat data, but to focus on American opinion. Apparently, from across the ocean is more visible.
            No, I have this in my comments. smile Or has the author turned off comments on his own text? smile
            1. Civil
              Civil 9 November 2021 07: 48
              +40
              1. No, what did you want? 30 years medicine was optimized-optimized, what was the result? And without the crown, mortality was at the height of the capstrans of the 3rd world.
              2. And why did you forget about the optimization of medical education? Also 30 years of sales of positions and diplomas in medical universities were not in vain.
              There is something to compare, the rich PRC coped with the protection of the population. Like impoverished Cuba.
              The stingy as well as the stupid always pays twice.
              1. Stas157
                Stas157 9 November 2021 10: 17
                +20
                Rosstat assures that before 76% of all excess deaths in 2020-2021, coronavirus and related complications account for.

                For me, it has always been a mystery, according to Rosstat, if his counted numbers, in one place, do not beat at all in another. And so it is constantly.

                Mortality in Russia at the end of 2020 increased by 18% in annual terms, or by 323,8 thousand people. But the number of deaths from covid according to the same Rosstat 144 thousand for 2020 (and this not 76%). The operational headquarters generally submits the figure of 57 thousand for the same period!

                What do they think there? They want to mislead the enemy or what? Do they even have the correct calculations for themselves?
                1. Sotskiy
                  Sotskiy 9 November 2021 19: 13
                  +20
                  Quote: Stas157
                  What do they think there?

                  Yes, along the way, according to the situation.
                  The vaccinated are dying, so the cause is pneumonia, thrombosis, stroke, etc.
                  Unvaccinated people die, so it is not pneumonia, tuberculosis, flu, etc. is a covid. lol
                  1. Overlock
                    Overlock 9 November 2021 19: 56
                    +8
                    Quote: Sovetskiy
                    The vaccinated are dying, so the cause is pneumonia, thrombosis, stroke, etc.
                    Unvaccinated people die, so it is not pneumonia, tuberculosis, flu, etc. is a covid.

                    Aptly noticed hi
              2. zenion
                zenion 10 November 2021 14: 12
                0
                Civil. Everything would be fine and the count would be correct. But those hospitals that remain are hindered by patients who crawl like cockroaches to die in hospitals. They specifically interfere. But you can reset everything and start counting from zero. Zero sick, two zero sick, three zero sick, and so on. Now that the number of God's workers has increased and the number of doctors has decreased, everyone will go to Paradise. The agreement was drawn up long ago. Everyone living in Russia goes to Heaven, all Americans go to Hell, and let them not resist. Mark Twain wrote interestingly - at the other end of the city, two were at work. The doctor sent the patient to the next world, and the priest showed him the way. If this goes on, the road will be paved with good intentions, unfortunately to Hell.
          2. New Year day
            New Year day 9 November 2021 07: 39
            +27
            ... It is likely that excess mortality in India is higher than in Russia.

            There are more than a billion Indians, ten million here or there, they are not critical. The loss of ten million is a disaster for us.
            1. riwas
              riwas 9 November 2021 08: 40
              +34
              This is the second blow to the elderly (they die mainly from covid), and the first was the increase in the retirement age.
              1. Svarog
                Svarog 9 November 2021 10: 13
                +26
                Quote: riwas
                This is the second blow to the elderly (they die mainly from covid), and the first was the increase in the retirement age.

                Coincidence? I will also add about the third blow - the optimization of medicine .. total illiteracy of Golikova and others like them .. don’t find too many coincidences?
                Here the second question creeps in .. are there any beneficiaries? The answer is obvious..PFR ..and billionaires, oddly enough, are getting richer ..
                1. Overlock
                  Overlock 9 November 2021 20: 01
                  +13
                  Quote: Svarog
                  total illiteracy of Golikova

                  It is difficult to call her illiterate. She is just a good specialist - she did everything that she planned and the owner is happy, she gives orders, closes his eyes to liberties. And the fact that this is to the detriment of the population is how the government exists for this. Alas
                  1. Svarog
                    Svarog 9 November 2021 20: 29
                    +5
                    Quote: Overlock
                    And the fact that it is to the detriment of the population is how the government exists for this. Alas

                    No .. for harm there are pests, and the government must work for the good of the people.
                    1. Overlock
                      Overlock 9 November 2021 21: 19
                      +8
                      Quote: Svarog
                      No .. for harm there are pests, and the government must work for the good of the people.

                      You won't understand with us - the pests lead, the people are silent
              2. Stas157
                Stas157 9 November 2021 10: 23
                +10
                Quote: riwas
                This is the second blow to the elderly (they die mainly from covid), and the first was the increase in the retirement age.

                Disease and power operate in the same direction - in the mainstream of population depopulation. At least the result is the same.
                1. Flank
                  Flank 11 November 2021 13: 29
                  -4
                  Quote: Stas157
                  Disease and power operate in the same direction - in the mainstream of population depopulation

                  In general, the authorities have been helping to give birth in recent years. I experienced it myself.
              3. Artyom Karagodin
                Artyom Karagodin 9 November 2021 11: 09
                +14
                Unfortunately, mortality is getting younger. It is not only those over 60 who are dying. People from 40 to 60 began to leave more often. Only recently I spoke with our epidemiologist. We can, of course, assume that such a trend has not emerged throughout the country, but it is unlikely that we in the Stavropol Territory have any serious differences from the rest of Russia.
                1. flicker
                  flicker 9 November 2021 11: 38
                  +14
                  People from 40 to 60 began to leave more often.

                  Died Head of Administration of Sterlitamak Vladimir Kulikov (55 years old).
                  "Vladimir Kulikov said at the beginning of October that in order not to get coronavirus and not infect his relatives and colleagues, he was vaccinated again. This time Sputnik Light, in order to preserve his immunity."
                  Probably he received the maximum possible medical assistance in Sterlitamak.
                  1. Svarog
                    Svarog 9 November 2021 11: 52
                    -5
                    Quote: flicker
                    This time, "Sputnik Light" to maintain their immunity. "
                    Probably he received the maximum possible medical assistance in Sterlitamak.

                    Cosmonaut Leonov's wife died ... she was vaccinated ... and this is the result of vaccination? If we compare the mortality rate with 2020, then yes ... because then the slurry has not been injected yet
                    1. flicker
                      flicker 9 November 2021 12: 28
                      +16
                      This case was mentioned in order to draw attention at least to the fact that vaccination is not a panacea for coronavirus.
                      And so he died not only from a vaccine, but not from a coronavirus, but from a complication caused by a coronavirus
                      1. Piligrim
                        Piligrim 9 November 2021 21: 01
                        +12
                        And so he died not only from a vaccine, but not from a coronavirus, but from a complication caused by a coronavirus

                        Is this such sophisticated banter or trolling?
                        Further, there should be a normal conclusion: "The patient died from the fight against the coronavirus."
                      2. flicker
                        flicker 11 November 2021 11: 19
                        +2
                        Is this such sophisticated banter or trolling?
                        I don’t understand it myself. This is borrowed from officials from medicine, if not vaccinated, then he died from coronavirus, if vaccinated, then from various chronic complications.
                    2. Overlock
                      Overlock 9 November 2021 20: 02
                      +7
                      Quote: Svarog
                      Cosmonaut Leonov's wife died ... she was vaccinated ...

                      Sister Shoigu is on the same list
                2. olegff68
                  olegff68 9 November 2021 15: 50
                  -8
                  As if from personal - my 50-year-old neighbor, a pensioner of the Ministry of Internal Affairs and a 52-year-old pensioner of the Moscow region, died of covid ...
                  Until the government grows testicles and introduces MANDATORY AND PERSONAL vaccination, nothing will change .... In the meantime, the Voronezh children's covid center has run out of places.
                  1. Vladimir Mashkov
                    Vladimir Mashkov 9 November 2021 18: 18
                    -8
                    Thanks to Eugene for another good article. I read, look at what is happening in Russia, in Ukraine - and I am amazed. request

                    In Russia the covid is powerful, in some places very strong. The authorities are trying in every possible way to extinguish the terrible disease that kills people, they CONSTANTLY make noise, they say, inform, urge. Salvation is vaccination. And at the same time there are people who are buying certificates just not to be vaccinated! But even worse are those who do not vaccinate themselves and conduct anti-vaccination propaganda, while also fiercely scolding the authorities for restricting CASH freedom and that people are dying! They scold for anything, often contradicting one another! fool

                    In Ukraine covid is also raging. Moreover, the indicators in THREE TIMES more! There are too few doctors, doctors do not go on calls, ambulances report that the queue is huge and will arrive when the turn comes. From time to time ambulances screech through the streets. There are no places in covid hospitals, they are all crammed. To get to bed urgently requires a lot of money. But, unlike the Russian authorities, the Ukrainian authorities are calm and carefree, they are interested in completely different issues. Calm and carefree is also a certain part of the population that does not observe precautions, although there are no such notorious fierce anti-axers like in Russia. No, vaccinations are also in progress. Reminds Russian: the same queues, flea market and the desire of many to crawl through the queue. But vaccination is going on sluggishly. At the level of Uzbekistan, Kyrgyzstan, Afghanistan and African countries. recourse

                    In a week I am going for the second Pfizer vaccination. After the first beat for ten days, there were complications in the eyes, ear and intestines. No temperature. They write that the second vaccination is usually more sensitive than the first ...
                    1. Overlock
                      Overlock 9 November 2021 20: 05
                      +2
                      Quote: Vladimir Mashkov
                      In a week I am going for the second Pfizer vaccination.

                      Not patriotic! American-German! Could call in Belgorod for Sputnik
                      1. Vladimir Mashkov
                        Vladimir Mashkov 9 November 2021 20: 15
                        +1
                        Quote: Overlock
                        Quote: Vladimir Mashkov
                        In a week I am going for the second Pfizer vaccination.

                        Not patriotic! American-German! Could call in Belgorod for Sputnik

                        Yes, I would be vaccinated with Sputnik with pleasure. And all the acquaintances would like to be vaccinated with them. But rolling into a pandemic is GREAT stupidity and an unjustified risk. And from those we have (Pfizer, Astra Zeneca, Modern and Koronovak) "Pfizer" is the best for an elderly person. Although I had more side effects than all my friends.

                        You, of course, do not give a damn about the disease "which does not exist." smile
                      2. Overlock
                        Overlock 9 November 2021 21: 23
                        0
                        Quote: Vladimir Mashkov
                        You, of course, do not give a damn about the disease "which does not exist"

                        Why not"? It is! But still, native, domestic is better! There are not enough rabbits in Russia, so we will accept them from Ukraine.
                        Quote: Vladimir Mashkov
                        But rolling into a pandemic is GREAT stupidity and an unjustified risk.

                        Okay to you! Putin said that people from Europe are going to Russia to get vaccinated, and here it is about 70 km. A trifle. They would have filmed it on camera, awarded the prize, maybe they would have presented an apartment in Belgorod as well. Putin himself would have cited you as an example: from Ukraine and to Russia for the vaccine!
                    2. Piligrim
                      Piligrim 9 November 2021 21: 06
                      +7
                      In a week I am going for the second Pfizer vaccination. After the first beat for ten days, there were complications in the eyes, ear and intestines. No temperature. They write that the second vaccination is usually more sensitive than the first ...

                      Thank you, you are a courageous person. Please keep a diary of your feelings and adventures after vaccination. Only honestly, without propaganda. Then you will publish it, preferably for at least 6 years, and preferably 10. This will be valuable scientific material.
                      1. Overlock
                        Overlock 9 November 2021 21: 24
                        -2
                        Quote: Piligrim
                        Thank you, you are a courageous person.

                        Is it because Pfizer? Everything is already known about her. Silence about "Sputnik"
                      2. Piligrim
                        Piligrim 9 November 2021 21: 34
                        +2
                        This vaccination will only last him for six months, well, a year, then they will force him to re-inoculate, forgive me, they will ask, he is also a participant in the experiment.
                      3. Beringovsky
                        Beringovsky 10 November 2021 11: 29
                        +3
                        Why is there silence, on the contrary, what are they talking about? I have never heard so many idle speculations in my whole life.
                      4. Vladimir Mashkov
                        Vladimir Mashkov 10 November 2021 12: 15
                        -1
                        Quote: Piligrim
                        Thank you, you are a courageous person.

                        To you, Alexey, Overlok-Sergey and many other jokers - lovers of "Russian roulette". Or - to the leading propagandists of the flocks of suckers.

                        Are you kidding me? Well, well, you have a good chance of making a joke to covid resuscitation: they say that 90% of it are NOT vaccinated. Although, if you are not a resident of a metropolis or a large city and - nevertheless - observe quarantine and safety rules yourself, then you have a chance to survive. smile

                        However, it is possible that you yourself have been vaccinated for a long time, but simply work out the task of processing suckers! laughing
                      5. New Year day
                        New Year day 10 November 2021 12: 26
                        +2
                        Quote: Vladimir Mashkov
                        say that 90% of her are NOT vaccinated.

                        they say that chickens are milked in Moscow laughing
                      6. Serge-667
                        Serge-667 10 November 2021 20: 16
                        0
                        Here I am not vaccinated. I was ill in the first wave. A year ago. Brought by my daughter from kindergarten.
                        Not vaccinated and not going to be vaccinated. And yes, I don’t wear a muzzle.
                      7. Vladimir Mashkov
                        Vladimir Mashkov 10 November 2021 21: 06
                        0
                        Quote: Serge-667
                        Here I am not vaccinated. I was ill in the first wave. A year ago. Brought by my daughter from kindergarten.
                        Not vaccinated and not going to be vaccinated. And yes, I don’t wear a muzzle.

                        Congratulations. You are lucky. Maybe lucky the second time. smile
                      8. Serge-667
                        Serge-667 10 November 2021 21: 54
                        +2
                        Strange as it may seem, he was ill, like the usual severe flu. The only thing with the lungs was hemorrhage. But in a year I haven't even gotten a runny nose since then. I have two options:
                        First, my immunity has become reinforced concrete
                        Second, I just don't have it now. But then any cut would be fatal. And this is not.
                        For myself, I only made one conclusion - vaccination is meaningless. Anti-covenant measures too. Well, that's my IMHO. I do not impose on anyone.
                      9. KLV
                        KLV 14 November 2021 08: 58
                        0
                        It's a pity, there is no way to put a "hands-face" emoticon.
                      10. vadimtt
                        vadimtt 12 November 2021 14: 15
                        +3
                        Ah-ha-ha, who's talking about 90%?
                        A colleague of mine, having spent two weeks in the red zone with 55% lung damage, said that there were approximately equal numbers of them, vaccinated and unvaccinated. And one doctor was not vaccinated in principle, but he worked there from the very beginning of the epic. And I didn’t get sick. Everything is very individual, and from vaccination, in terms of covid, there is no effect, well, except for a bunch of side effects, from which you glue flippers with a greater probability than from the virus itself. Immunity cannot be raped like that, because it can take revenge in the form of autoimmune diseases.
                    3. alekseykabanets
                      alekseykabanets 10 November 2021 21: 23
                      +3
                      Quote: Vladimir Mashkov
                      In a week I am going for the second Pfizer vaccination. After the first beat for ten days, there were complications in the eyes, ear and intestines. No temperature. They write that the second vaccination is usually more sensitive than the first ...

                      Trip-report from a drug addict site is somewhat reminiscent.
                      Quote: Vladimir Mashkov
                      The authorities are doing their best to extinguish the terrible disease that kills people,

                      And that's why they continue to cut hospital beds and cut medical costs again.
                      Quote: Vladimir Mashkov
                      Salvation is vaccination.

                      Salvation is to increase the number of beds, with all the consequences, at least to the level of the 90s, then there were 137 of them per 10 thousand people, now less than 70. In Japan and Thailand, for example, there are now about 140 beds for 10 thousand people, no one has heard of some kind of disasters there.
                      Quote: Vladimir Mashkov
                      And at the same time there are people who buy certificates just not to get vaccinated!

                      I will buy myself a certificate, if they will get me too much, so what? Or will you order me to vaccinate your children as well? It's a pity there is no fig smiley.
                      Quote: Vladimir Mashkov
                      Covid is also raging in Ukraine. Moreover, the indicators are THREE TIMES higher!

                      Was this Ukraine given to you? Compare with Japan.
                    4. Vladimir Mashkov
                      Vladimir Mashkov 11 November 2021 14: 20
                      +2
                      Judging by the minuses to me and the inadequacy of other statements, I am somehow afraid for Russia ... But, on the other hand, who does not know about the inadequacy of the "marshal-general" sect - the black hundred VOs, which gathers together on other topics only for in order to tidy up and smear everything and everyone with dirt? And somehow it becomes calmer: they are far from all of Russia! Although they are convinced of the opposite. laughing
                  2. Overlock
                    Overlock 9 November 2021 20: 03
                    -3
                    Quote: olegff68
                    As if from a personal - my 50-year-old neighbor died of covid

                    Scared? All the will of God
                  3. flicker
                    flicker 11 November 2021 11: 29
                    +1
                    Until the government grows back testicles and introduces MANDATORY AND CAPITAL vaccinations
                    Well Duc, it is trying so hard.
                    By the way, are you not afraid that after the general vaccination the situation will become even worse?
                    Did you know that universal vaccination increases the mutation of the virus?
                    No?
                    But Ginsburg himself declares this.
                    "It becomes obvious that in the context of increased herd immunity, developed as a result of past disease and vaccination, the number of SARS-CoV-2 variants with mutations in RBD and S-protein will rapidly increase.

                    If something is a link to the site:
                    https://www.mdpi.com/2076-393X/9/7/779
                    1. Flank
                      Flank 11 November 2021 13: 40
                      0
                      Quote: flicker
                      Did you know that universal vaccination increases the mutation of the virus?

                      It is known. Therefore, it was necessary to quickly vaccinate so that the mutations did not have time. Indeed, in other countries, there is also universal vaccination and we will still get new strains from them. But no, the fig in our pocket at the cost of the lives of loved ones is much more important.
                      1. flicker
                        flicker 11 November 2021 13: 57
                        0
                        Therefore, it was necessary to quickly vaccinate so that the mutations did not have time
                        Even if you accept your logic, it was necessary to take root quickly all over the world!
                        And this was impossible to do even due to the lack of vaccines.
                        So even this method is dead-end.
                        ---
                        On the other hand, the mutation does not arise from the duration of the vaccination, but from the magnitude of the vaccination. The more vaccinated, the greater the chances of the virus mutating.
                      2. Flank
                        Flank 11 November 2021 15: 59
                        0
                        The vaccine helps with the following variations, albeit less. Therefore, we put things in order locally with universal vaccination, and we import samples of new strains and, in a short time, a new vaccine that will protect against the next virus, from which the very first would protect worse. In general, except for vaccination, there are no methods to combat covid.
                      3. Illanatol
                        Illanatol 13 November 2021 09: 06
                        0
                        On the other hand, the mutation does not arise from the duration of the vaccination, but from the magnitude of the vaccination.


                        Mutations can be caused by more than just vaccinations.
                        I fully admit the natural origin of the original COVID.
                        But, since the pandemic had a huge impact on the world, on the global economy, leading to significant changes in the existence of all mankind, there could well be those willing to "refine" the virus, making it more effective (more virulent, more deadly). Even private structures are quite capable of doing this. The cost of a biotech laboratory, equipped with first-class scientific equipment and staff, is comparable to the cost of an airbus ... not god knows what kind of capital.
                        And making money on a pandemic, if skillfully, can be billions (not rubles).
                    2. olegff68
                      olegff68 11 November 2021 15: 51
                      0
                      in conditions of increased herd immunity

                      Herd ???? Are you sure that this is an adequate translation and that you understood everything correctly ????
                      And yes - Israel ..... Where do you put it? - Daily mortality ranges from 0 to 2 people .... and we have ~ 1200 for a week.
                      1. Shahno
                        Shahno 11 November 2021 15: 55
                        0
                        Well, you have 15 times as many mouths. Then we are in the descending stage of the parabola .. And you have not yet enjoyed the whole picture.
                  4. Flank
                    Flank 11 November 2021 13: 33
                    -1
                    I'm afraid that the authorities should, on the contrary, cancel everything by the new year, saying that now vaccinations and masks are everyone's personal business. Our people are like children - they are hysterical in front of the Pope, knowing that he will patiently listen. And in front of someone else's aunt just like silk because the aunt does not care. So the authorities need to temporarily become such an aunt.
              4. Cat Kuzya
                Cat Kuzya 9 November 2021 11: 13
                +2
                This is called genocide. Remember how it was with the Jews in Nazi Germany? The same is happening in Russia now, and in all countries that are crazy about coronation. Genocide is when a part of the population is declared "untouchable" and segregation and restrictions are introduced for them. That is completely contrary to the Constitution of the Russian Federation. And then the question arises, where is our "guarantor of the Constitution? Where did he hide? He himself said that he was for vaccination, but for voluntary vaccination and for the absence of coercion and any restrictions for the unvaccinated! So, why is he silent? What is not fulfills its duties as a guarantor of the observance of the rights of ALL citizens, without any restrictions? Why does not this coronation and orgy with QR codes stop? Ay, guarantor! Where are you! We are waiting for the fulfillment of your constitutional obligations! Do not hide, go out to the people!
                1. Ryusei
                  Ryusei 9 November 2021 14: 31
                  -10
                  And surely you have strong evidence, otherwise it attracts slander with all that it implies, although if you are a pug yapping at an elephant then it is understandable, but the elephant can react, and you yourself will whine "but what for me ..."
                2. dauria
                  dauria 10 November 2021 02: 20
                  +4
                  Genocide is when part of the population is declared "untouchable" and segregation and restrictions are introduced for them. That is completely contrary to the Constitution of the Russian Federation.

                  So, to release patients with hepatitis from infectious diseases? Look, satraps, they are encroaching on the constitution!
                  In general, you are right.
                  Since Putin was afraid to take responsibility, did not give a clear, clear order "to instill everyone without talking," then there is nothing to talk about.
                  Fuck. A person has the right to throw the country into the slaughter of a nuclear war - and get stuck on such nonsense ... ... Hmm ...
                  1. New Year day
                    New Year day 10 November 2021 12: 27
                    +4
                    Quote: dauria
                    Fuck. A person has the right to throw the country into the slaughter of a nuclear war - and get stuck on such nonsense ... ... Hmm ...

                    The war is against the West, and vaccination is inside the country. How can this end? Who knows?
                  2. Illanatol
                    Illanatol 13 November 2021 09: 08
                    0
                    A person has the right to throw a country into a nuclear war - and get stuck on such nonsense


                    Something new?
                    He clearly showed in the episode with "Kursk" that he was just a "high-ranking official".
                3. Flank
                  Flank 11 November 2021 13: 42
                  0
                  Quote: Kuzya the Cat
                  Genocide is when a part of the population is declared "untouchable" and segregation and restrictions are introduced for them.

                  For some reason, you were silent until Kovid, when segregation was in full swing: they do not take a job without a diploma, they do not give a gun without a certificate, to get behind the wheel you need a license. Yes, write, finally, an ode about those who lost their passports! This is generally untermensch!
              5. Overlock
                Overlock 9 November 2021 19: 59
                +7
                Quote: riwas
                This is the second blow to the elderly (they die mainly from covid), and the first was the increase in the retirement age.

                This is how the pension fund wins: the 2nd stage of the pension reform
            2. Stas157
              Stas157 9 November 2021 11: 06
              +11
              Quote: Silvestr
              There are more than a billion Indians, ten million here or there, they are not critical. Losing ten million is a disaster for us.

              Exactly.

              According to the laws of wartime: excess mortality is growing in Russia

              And the numbers, without exaggeration, are terrible.
              All over the world, 6339 people died from the coronavirus in the past day, and in Russia 1190. That is, in a country with a smaller population 2% of the world, 19% of deaths fall from the Coronavirus in the world. And even if we take into account that someone is submitting not very correct statistics, the terrible advantage in our direction will still be colossal.

              How so? We have both the king and the government, all the time talking about some kind of success in the fight against the pandemic!
              1. I am not a robot
                I am not a robot 9 November 2021 17: 14
                -12
                first, people like you urge not to wear masks, not to comply with quarantine, not to inject a vaccine, a violation of constitutional rights, and then you say what the government is doing
                and what such successes they are talking about (even through federal channels they say that the situation is getting worse, and you write nonsense it turns out). and the caranovirus is practically not treated, little depends on medicine, the United States as an example (vaccination helps)
                1. Piligrim
                  Piligrim 9 November 2021 21: 11
                  +4
                  even on federal channels they say that the situation is getting worse, and you write nonsense it turns out

                  You see, under Soviet rule there were only "federal channels" and there they spoke only the truth, until Gorbachev came and said "everyone lied to you, and now I will tell you the truth."
                  How can an ordinary mortal live in such conditions?
                2. Stas157
                  Stas157 10 November 2021 10: 31
                  +4
                  Quote: Janerobot
                  first such as you call do not wear masks, do not comply with quarantine, do not inject a vaccine - violation of constitutional rights

                  And where am I urged this?

                  I obediently injected myself with the vaccine Sputnik right after our president! But, I am nobody don't urge to do it or not to do it. Vaccinated and protected why worry about others?)) People adults will decide for themselves.

                  Quote: Janerobot
                  and then you say what the government is doing

                  No, I'm just saying. Without any sweat.
              2. Vadim237
                Vadim237 9 November 2021 21: 33
                0
                "All over the world, 6339 people have died from coronavirus in the past day, and 1190 in Russia." - In Russia, from 500 to 800 people die from cancer per day - but as we can see, in terms of mortality, the covid came out on top.
                1. Stas157
                  Stas157 10 November 2021 10: 52
                  0
                  Quote: Vadim237
                  In Russia, from 500 to 800 people die from cancer a day

                  What did you mean by that? What is from covid today 1211 people died, this is bullshit? Is that what you want to say? After all, from cancer, according to your logic, they also die!
                  1. Vadim237
                    Vadim237 10 November 2021 21: 31
                    +1
                    I wanted to say that covid is the most dangerous disease in Russia today.
                  2. Vadim237
                    Vadim237 10 November 2021 21: 32
                    0
                    "According to your logic" - Not according to mine, but according to yours.
              3. Illanatol
                Illanatol 13 November 2021 09: 11
                0
                All over the world, 6339 people have died from coronavirus in the past day, and 1190 in Russia.


                The world figures are clearly underestimated. There are no objective statistics for many countries, and there are problems with diagnostics in third world countries.
                1. Stas157
                  Stas157 13 November 2021 11: 43
                  0
                  Quote: Illanatol
                  The world figures are clearly underestimated.

                  You're right. But, our numbers are also underestimated. Many die after covid from vascular disorders. But they are not counted in any way. My whole family was ill with covid a year ago, and fake tests showed nothing. CT scan with bilateral pneumonia was not taken into account!
            3. tralflot1832
              tralflot1832 9 November 2021 13: 58
              -8
              So the maximum birth rate was in the USSR in 1955-1960. Then it began to decline, there was not a significant surge in 1978 -83. Maybe you need to dance from there, for 60 years under the USSR health was undermined, hence the wild mortality. You have a lot of your friends. I have but not many. The last Mohicans are leaving, young people, even under the Communist Party of the Soviet Union, from the age of 60 did not want to have children. 1 child in a family is normal, 2 these are parents heroes, 3 is nonsense. How many children do you have in my family, I have two. From here and dance.
              1. Shahno
                Shahno 9 November 2021 14: 03
                +2
                By the way, we are already thinking about limiting the birth rate at the Knesset level. The 4th child per family is already a burden even for our economy.
                1. tralflot1832
                  tralflot1832 9 November 2021 14: 06
                  +1
                  What can I say, well done, you are not talking about the Orthodox. They only dance in tik tok! And they make children.
                  1. Shahno
                    Shahno 9 November 2021 14: 08
                    +3
                    No .. The Orthodox have nothing to do with it. I have three from my second wife and one from my first. The climate, probably ...
                    And there is one more in the plans.
                    1. tralflot1832
                      tralflot1832 9 November 2021 14: 12
                      +1
                      Probably this is love, too loving, where caught !? It all depends on the woman, if there is a beloved man nearby, then hold on. Even the "bastard" will not ask, but will put before a fact.
                2. Illanatol
                  Illanatol 13 November 2021 14: 30
                  0
                  Especially if it is the 4th child in a Palestinian Arab family with an Israeli passport.
                  I wonder how many years will the Arabs become the majority among the citizens of Israel?
                  1. Dkuznecov
                    Dkuznecov 13 November 2021 22: 26
                    0
                    When when...
                    When the citizens of Israel start to convert to Islam.
                    And genetically one cannot be distinguished from others, one people,
                    one blood.
            4. zenion
              zenion 10 November 2021 14: 17
              0
              You can persuade the rulers of Russia not to compete with India. The overall result will not be in favor of Russia. It turns out that India will flourish, and Russia will no longer have anyone to bury. Everyone will be so afraid of the Russian land that for a thousand years it will be barren and formless, as at the beginning of the construction of the earth by God.
          3. BigBoss
            BigBoss 14 November 2021 12: 50
            0
            EVERYTHING GOES ACCORDING TO THE PLAN OF THE PRESIDENT AND THE GOVERNMENT OF THE RUSSIAN FEDERATION !!! How else can you explain the next cut in spending on medicine and social services in the new budget? https://medvestnik.ru/content/news/Roshal-raskritikoval-snijenie-rashodov-na-zdravoohranenie.html
            Thatcher's attributed statement reads as follows: "According to the estimates of the world community, it is economically expedient to live in Russia for only 15 million people."
        2. Snail N9
          Snail N9 9 November 2021 06: 43
          +21
          Again this nonsense about "collective immunity". Already, even from all the irons, they changed this nonsense for another - that together with protection from the disease, vaccination, they say, will only facilitate the course of the disease. They closed the old people motionless during the "hard quarantine", and they died - why don't they write about it? Doesn't the pension reform lead to increased mortality? Why don't they consider this reason too? Now all sorts of lockdowns, nightmares of the population with any stupidity such as QR codes, restrictions, not letting you to work, and then at work, come on, let's make up for 10-12 hours without days off and pass-pay taxes, mortgages and loans, this adds health or kills with stress ? So my boss says to me, "Come on and don't blather, are you tired? In the next world you will rest or quit!" create families at all? And as for the statistics of deaths from covid, they already wrote that all the statistics on this matter in Italy, during the investigation, turned out to be false, many times overstated.
          1. The comment was deleted.
          2. atalef
            atalef 9 November 2021 06: 49
            +10
            Quote: Snail N9
            Again this nonsense about "collective immunity".

            well, this is not entirely nonsense.
            Quote: Snail N9
            They closed the old people motionless during the "hard quarantine", and they died - why don't they write about it?

            Well, they closed it in all countries, but for some reason, in terms of mortality rates, Russia is much higher than most countries.
            In general, I think if in large cities they still somehow sat in isolation in the districts there is no longer
            Quote: Snail N9
            Doesn't the pension reform lead to increased mortality?

            And how does it lead?
            Quote: Snail N9
            "And as for the statistics of deaths from covid, they already wrote that all the statistics on this matter in Italy, during the investigation, turned out to be false, many times overstated.

            It is understandable that they are playing with statistics, but the overall increase in mortality is a fact and the reason for it is known.
            1. New Year day
              New Year day 9 November 2021 07: 43
              +8
              ... well, this is not entirely nonsense.

              Justify. If in countries with a vaccination rate of more than 60-70% there are now outbreaks of disease, is it herd immunity or lack of it? And in general, what is herd immunity, its substrate?
              1. atalef
                atalef 9 November 2021 08: 10
                +19
                Quote: Silvestr
                Justify. If in countries with a vaccination rate of more than 60-70% there are now outbreaks of disease, is it herd immunity or lack of it?

                You are like a doctor. you understand perfectly well that vaccination does not protect against disease, it protects against severe disease. With our vaccination over 80%. outbreak of COVID delta. gave a crazy increase in cases, mostly asymptomatic or mild, but the deaths were scanty and mostly in those who were not vaccinated. It is a fact.
                I repeat once more. immunity (it's like the flu), does not exclude the possibility of illness, but facilitates the course of the disease.


                Quote: Silvestr
                And in general, what is herd immunity, its substrate?

                You know better, until a certain time I had never been vaccinated against the flu, and I got it regularly once a year. As a rule, I am seriously ill, for 2-3 days with a very high temperature, I looked at it as an inevitability and did not see anything problematic in it.
                Before 10 years ago I got my first flu shot and. of course I got sick during the season, but very easily, almost imperceptibly. coughed. calmed down, an evening with a temperature and that's it.
                I began to do it regularly (I'm talking about the flu vaccine) and in my case it helped. did i have the flu? Of course, but in a much milder form than before.
                The same thing after COVID vaccination, as I understand it.
                We have already been stuck with 3 of them, and if you look at the statistics, then Israel is in the very tail of the list for the decrease in life expectancy due to COVID.
                I'll tell you what happened just the other day. my brother-in-law's employee. I went with my wife to visit Belarus, they are both anti-axers and are not vaccinated, as a result, now she is in serious trouble in Minsk, he is in critical and so critical that his insurance makes it possible to take him on a private plane to Israel, but he is not transportable.
                I am not a stupid follower of vaccinations and for example I do not understand the meaning of vaccinations for children. But the fact that vaccinations work for adults is - you will excuse me - a fact.
                1. New Year day
                  New Year day 9 November 2021 08: 21
                  +4
                  Quote: atalef
                  excuse me - a fact.

                  1. Don't you find it strange that your statement about 80% of the mild course of covid gives such a lethality and forces the authorities to introduce codes and other restrictions?
                  2 I have NEVER been vaccinated against the flu and have never had it. Is this also a merit of vaccination?
                  3. After the first wave, we all got sick with covid and now, even before vaccination, with daily contact with covid, no one got sick again. Is this also a merit of the vaccine or does your immunity work?
                  1. Snail N9
                    Snail N9 9 November 2021 08: 26
                    +4
                    This statistic, she is such a statistic ... Her incidence of covid is growing, even on weekends, when clinics and laboratories are not working - only the attendants. But we believe, of course, we believe in our honest statistics.
                    1. New Year day
                      New Year day 9 November 2021 08: 56
                      +23
                      Quote: Snail N9
                      This statistic, it is such a statistic ...

                      Without a doubt! Before the elections, the incidence falls, and at the meetings of the EP, the virus dies altogether. The strongest wins laughing
                      1. atalef
                        atalef 9 November 2021 11: 27
                        -3
                        Quote: Silvestr
                        Without a doubt! Before the elections, the incidence falls, and at the meetings of the EP, the virus dies altogether. The strongest wins

                        The way the EG plays with the statistics, all the same, does not sweep aside other facts, and seeing the fraudulent behavior of some, one should not turn a blind eye to others.
                        Not in the whole world is ruled by the EG, there are statistics on countries, the same is worth paying attention to.
                      2. Sotskiy
                        Sotskiy 9 November 2021 19: 29
                        +10
                        Quote: Silvestr
                        Before the elections, the incidence falls, and at the meetings of the EP, the virus dies altogether.

                        good laughing
                    2. atalef
                      atalef 9 November 2021 11: 18
                      -2
                      Quote: Snail N9
                      This statistic, she is such a statistic ... Her incidence of covid is growing, even on weekends, when clinics and laboratories are not working - only the attendants. But we believe, of course we believe, our honest statistics

                      It is understandable that everyone plays with statistics as they like, so you need to look at the numbers that are very difficult to distort - the number of hospitalized people and the increase in the number of deaths.
                      1. Vikxnumx
                        Vikxnumx 9 November 2021 11: 42
                        +6
                        the number of hospitalized and the increase in the number of deaths.

                        The number of hospitalized people is constrained by the number of beds in hospitals and the number of doctors and SP teams ...
                      2. atalef
                        atalef 9 November 2021 12: 40
                        +1
                        Quote: VIK1711
                        the number of hospitalized and the increase in the number of deaths.

                        The number of hospitalized people is constrained by the number of beds in hospitals and the number of doctors and SP teams ...

                        Well, if he is holding back, then there are at least more of them, and not less than in the statistics.
                  2. atalef
                    atalef 9 November 2021 09: 15
                    +2
                    Quote: Silvestr
                    Don't you find it strange that your statement about 80% of the mild course of covid gives such a lethality and forces the authorities to introduce codes and other restrictions?

                    I say that us. The bulk of the restrictions have been removed, and the rest remain (in my opinion) to push the remaining 20% ​​to be grafted
                    Quote: Silvestr
                    I have NEVER been vaccinated against the flu and have never had it. This is also the merit of vaccination.

                    I spoke about my special case, you about yours, it has nothing to do with general statistics, because I know who was vaccinated and died and someone did not get vaccinated and did not get sick.
                    But there are statistics, average indicators and this draws a more or less true situation.
                    Quote: Silvestr
                    ... After the first wave, we all got sick with covid and now, even before vaccination, with daily contact with covid, no one got sick again. This is also the merit of the vaccine, or does your immunity work

                    Of course, no one canceled their immunity, but you take the case when a person was ill and survived, I am telling you about the case when a person was vaccinated and therefore will not die in case of illness.
                    Catch the difference?
                    1. New Year day
                      New Year day 9 November 2021 09: 21
                      +3
                      ... I spoke about my special case, you about yours,

                      But you brought yours as a rule, not an exception.
                      Quote: atalef
                      Of course, no one canceled their immunity, but you take the case when a person was ill and survived, I am telling you about the case when a person was vaccinated and therefore will not die in case of illness.

                      Expand the role of the vaccine in this, the meaning of which you sing
                      Quote: atalef
                      Catch the difference?

                      ..... in what has been said?
                      1. atalef
                        atalef 9 November 2021 11: 14
                        +1
                        Quote: Silvestr
                        But you brought yours as a rule, not an exception.

                        Why should I cite it as an exception if it is embedded in general statistics.

                        Quote: Silvestr
                        Expand the role of the vaccine in this, the meaning of which you sing

                        I'll explain it to you on my fingers. if you don't understand.
                        Here are 2 groups, 1000 people each, one is vaccinated, the other is not.
                        Both will eventually be immune.
                        Only the mortality in the vaccinated group (in case of infection) will be in the region of 0.1%, and in the unvaccinated group until the whole group reaches immunity (i.e., in the case of infection) - in the region of 2%.
                        that is, from the first group, 1 person will die, from the second - 20. That's the whole difference.
                        By the way, I'm not singing anything.
                        To me this vaccination and restrictions are like a sickle in one place and I think that in many ways I have gone too far (in the case of restrictions and lockdowns), but it is stupid to deny the benefits of vaccination.
                        If you are of course friends with logic

                        Quote: Silvestr
                        .... in what has been said?

                        in the written.
                        Best regards
                      2. New Year day
                        New Year day 9 November 2021 13: 34
                        +1
                        If you are of course friends with logic


                        ... it has nothing to do with general statistics, because I know who was vaccinated and died and someone was not vaccinated and did not get sick

                        и
                        ... Why should I cite it as an exception if it is embedded in general statistics.

                        Decide on your stats and logic
                      3. atalef
                        atalef 9 November 2021 14: 18
                        +4
                        Quote: Silvestr
                        Decide on your stats and logic

                        Logic says about one thing, that not always the special cases that you know are invested in general statistics.
                        Sometimes they correspond to it, sometimes - no.
                        But these are the isolated cases that you know and nothing more, for an aquarium fish, its aquarium is the whole universe, is it really so. So do you.
                        I gave you my opinion and tried to explain, I hope logically, my position, unfortunately you did not give anything in response.
                        Also good ,
                        Good luck and health.
                      4. New Year day
                        New Year day 9 November 2021 14: 26
                        +5
                        Quote: atalef
                        Logic says

                        that the examples given by you and me are special cases. You should also understand that the statistics you have are telling a lot. In Russia, there are no statistics on vaccines at all - there are statements, often mutually exclusive, from people very far from medicine. However, if you are ready to be treated by Peskov or Gunzburg, it is your right. Lack of transparency in vaccination and lies are the main causes of the anti-vaccination problem.
                        Quote: atalef
                        you unfortunately did not give anything in response.

                        Answer above
                      5. atalef
                        atalef 9 November 2021 18: 12
                        +2
                        Quote: Silvestr
                        In Russia, there are no statistics on vaccines at all - there are statements, often mutually exclusive, from people very far from medicine

                        but Russia is not the whole world. Read what is happening in other countries.
                        We don't live in a cave. There is a lot of information and COVID (as a disease) behaves exactly the same both in Israel and in Russia - the methods of struggle are different, the results are different - you are an educated person, draw conclusions.
                        Quote: Silvestr
                        ... However, if you are ready to be treated by Peskov or Gunzburg, it is your right.

                        I was vaccinated by Faizer. Who is Peskov and Gunzburg do not know. But you understand that besides these two there are others. If you do not believe them, it does not mean at all that the problem does not exist.
                        Quote: Silvestr
                        ... Lack of transparency in vaccination and lies are the main causes of the anti-vaccination problem.

                        Well, the sick, that is, people die - do you believe that?
                      6. I am not a robot
                        I am not a robot 9 November 2021 17: 23
                        -10
                        you still won't prove anything to these anti-vaskers, they twist your words as they want, and the logic is not about them
                      7. Overlock
                        Overlock 9 November 2021 20: 10
                        +3
                        Quote: Janerobot
                        you still won't prove anything to these anti-vaskers, they twist your words as they want, and the logic is not about them

                        You obviously have the logic - you should go to the government and in the TV box. And your arguments are convincing - their complete absence, it happens
                      8. Vadim237
                        Vadim237 9 November 2021 21: 40
                        -1
                        There is a solution to how to reduce infection with covid, it is necessary to put azonators in all public transport, as well as in all stores and places of mass gathering of people, viruses in the azone environment die instantly, just as bacteria are really there, but the azone itself is not useful for humans in large quantities and is harmful to health.
                      9. Overlock
                        Overlock 9 November 2021 22: 01
                        +2
                        Quote: Vadim237
                        There is a solution to how to reduce infection with covid, it is necessary to put azonators in all public transport, as well as in all stores and places of mass gathering of people, viruses in the azone environment die instantly, just as bacteria are really there, but the azone itself is not useful for humans in large quantities and is harmful to health.

                        In principle, I agree, that's just money.
                      10. Vadim237
                        Vadim237 10 November 2021 21: 34
                        0
                        Considering that the state has already spent more than a trillion rubles on its struggle - 80 billion for them, such events will not become critical for us.
                      11. I am not a robot
                        I am not a robot 9 November 2021 21: 42
                        -3
                        well, read the above correspondence of commentators, atalef gives some links, information, sylvester only slogans, and that's all
                      12. Overlock
                        Overlock 9 November 2021 22: 02
                        0
                        Quote: Janerobot
                        well, read the above correspondence of commentators, atalef gives some links, information, sylvester only slogans, and that's all

                        Read what? Point out the slogans to me
                    2. Piligrim
                      Piligrim 9 November 2021 21: 39
                      0
                      I say that us. The bulk of the restrictions have been removed, and the rest remain (in my opinion) to push the remaining 20% ​​to be grafted

                      Here, put yourself in the position of a very very rich person whose basis of wealth is power. There comes a time of change for him personally, power and wealth begin to behave in a strange way, as if they say "we can and float away." What needs to be done to protect yourself?
                  3. Svarog
                    Svarog 9 November 2021 10: 21
                    +10
                    Quote: Silvestr
                    Is this also a merit of the vaccine or does your immunity work?

                    This pharmaceutical industry works ... and earns ... shears like sheep ..
                    1. atalef
                      atalef 9 November 2021 11: 16
                      +4
                      Quote: Svarog
                      Quote: Silvestr
                      Is this also a merit of the vaccine or does your immunity work?

                      This pharmaceutical industry works ... and earns ... shears like sheep ..

                      one does not exclude the other. Someone made a good medicine and sells it for a lot of money. On the one hand, it saves lives, on the other hand, it plucks the health care budget like a sticky one.
                      Alas.
                      1. Svarog
                        Svarog 9 November 2021 11: 41
                        +7
                        Quote: atalef
                        one does not exclude the other. Someone made a good medicine and sells it for a lot of money. On the one hand, it saves lives, on the other hand, it plucks the health care budget like a sticky one.
                        Alas

                        That's right ... but what a temptation appears to force everyone ... and now the fascists use this and enrich themselves in parallel. If it had not been forced and there would have been no questions. They violate all the laws in a brazen way .. The Constitution is just a piece of paper .. maddened .. and the guarantor of the Constitution .. just an old showman .. who is not responsible for anything ..
                  4. Flank
                    Flank 11 November 2021 13: 50
                    0
                    At our enterprise, the difference in the incidence of covid by four times is not in favor of anti-axers. Statistics were carried out only on the fact of sick leave, and if you take those who have suffered on their feet, it will generally go off scale.
                2. Liam
                  Liam 9 November 2021 09: 33
                  -8
                  Quote: atalef
                  You are like a doctor

                  Reading what kind of illiterate nonsense the user is talking about in the COVID topic, I would not be so sure of this. A person talks at the level of a vocational school and not a person with a medical education. I still hope that this is an ordinary Internet figure and not a real physician. Because it is absolutely scary for Russia it becomes if there are doctors of this level and the country breaks many more negative pandemic records with such "doctors"
                  1. New Year day
                    New Year day 9 November 2021 13: 39
                    +1
                    Quote: Liam
                    Quote: atalef
                    You are like a doctor

                    Reading what kind of illiterate nonsense the user is talking about in the COVID topic, I would not be so sure of this. A person talks at the level of a vocational school and not a person with a medical education. I still hope that this is an ordinary Internet figure and not a real physician. Because it is absolutely scary for Russia it becomes if there are doctors of this level and the country breaks many more negative pandemic records with such "doctors"

                    Justify and prove. And before that you are just a talker
                    1. Piligrim
                      Piligrim 9 November 2021 21: 44
                      0
                      maybe this will help you with something
                      youtube.be/YyKlkQezlC4
                      there is a whole hour and a half, but convincing enough.
                3. Liam
                  Liam 9 November 2021 09: 43
                  +4
                  Quote: atalef
                  I am not a stupid follower of vaccinations and for example I do not understand the meaning of vaccinations for children

                  You probably have forgotten that before the introduction of mass vaccination of children in the middle of the 20th century, infant mortality was in the region of 50%. And in African countries, where vaccination problems, infant mortality is still walking in the region of 15-20%. Cancel child vaccination and get it within a few years, the same indicators. Smallpox, and poliomelitis and meningitis and many other deadly diseases that mowed down children by millions and were defeated only by vaccines will return
                  1. atalef
                    atalef 9 November 2021 10: 19
                    +1
                    Quote: Liam
                    Quote: atalef
                    I am not a stupid follower of vaccinations and for example I do not understand the meaning of vaccinations for children

                    You probably have forgotten that before the introduction of mass vaccination of children in the middle of the 20th century, infant mortality was in the region of 50%. And in African countries, where vaccination problems, infant mortality is still walking in the region of 15-20%. Cancel child vaccination and get it within a few years, the same indicators. Smallpox, and poliomelitis and meningitis and many other deadly diseases that mowed down children by millions and were defeated only by vaccines will return

                    Children have very mild or no symptoms of covid disease. Mortality is zero, severe units, vaccination of children does not protect from the situation that they will become infected and will charge others.
                    From my point of view, this does not change anything - with or without a vaccine - but I am talking only about children.
                    1. Liam
                      Liam 9 November 2021 11: 22
                      -7
                      But they are excellent distributors and breeding grounds for new COVID variants.
                      1. New Year day
                        New Year day 9 November 2021 13: 40
                        -1
                        Quote: Liam
                        But they are excellent distributors and breeding grounds for new COVID variants.

                        Could you give the numbers or blah blah?
                      2. Oleg Zorin
                        Oleg Zorin 9 November 2021 20: 28
                        +7
                        And who, the figures, can bring them? But if you have ever studied microbiology, then the evidence of virus mutations in children's organisms is beyond doubt. However, as in all others, where he (the virus) is given the opportunity to replicate
                      3. Piligrim
                        Piligrim 9 November 2021 21: 51
                        +2
                        So you wrote "the evidence of virus mutations in children's organisms is beyond doubt."
                        And if I tell you that this is a child's body in this way builds its immunity. How do you refute this statement? By the way, have you read the works of Anokhin and Davydovsky? How do you like their ideas about the role of viruses in the evolutionary process?
                      4. Oleg Zorin
                        Oleg Zorin 10 November 2021 12: 01
                        +3
                        And if I tell you that this is a child's body in this way builds its immunity. How do you refute this statement?
                        I will not refute it in any way. This is the case. And at the exit from a strengthened child's body, we get a mutated strain that is dangerous for adults. "How do you like that, Elon Musk?"
                      5. Piligrim
                        Piligrim 15 December 2021 23: 44
                        -1
                        laughing "Well, you are a comedian, well, you are an artist. Do you need a child or a plane?"
                  2. Svarog
                    Svarog 9 November 2021 10: 24
                    +5
                    Quote: Liam
                    You seem to have forgotten that before the introduction of mass vaccination children in the middle of the 20th century, infant mortality was around 50%

                    I remembered about the propaganda about children and began to actively move to the masses .. start stabbing children, wake up with things in England ..
                    1. Liam
                      Liam 9 November 2021 11: 31
                      -11
                      Sylvester, like you, is a professional Internet fighter against the regime. The main thing for him is to be against the government. Last spring, the party line was in denial of the virus, so Sylvester here explained to everyone the danger of COVID and almost direct reports from intensive care units led. The government changed the line and began to recognize the epidemic and the need for vaccines - Sylvester has turned 180 degrees and carries anti-scientific nonsense in the opposite direction. A real medic and just an honest person will not behave like that.
                      Such an unprincipled "opposition" inflicts no less damage to society than the deceitful government and the question of who killed more people with lies during this epidemic.
                      1. New Year day
                        New Year day 9 November 2021 13: 47
                        +10
                        Quote: Liam
                        Sylvester, like you, is a professional Internet fighter against the regime. The main thing for him is to be against the government. Last spring, the party line was in denial of the virus, so Sylvester here explained to everyone the danger of COVID and almost direct reports from intensive care units led. The government changed the line and began to recognize the epidemic and the need for vaccines - Sylvester has turned 180 degrees and carries anti-scientific nonsense in the opposite direction. A real medic and just an honest person will not behave like that.
                        Such an unprincipled "opposition" inflicts no less damage to society than the deceitful government and the question of who killed more people with lies during this epidemic.

                        And you turn out to be a fool. Where do I deny the danger of covid? - In the studio.
                        You will not be able to give an example, but you do not have a balanced, reasonable approach. Alas.
                        Do you know what was the rule of Soviet health care? - "You need to treat a person, not a disease." Now, on the contrary, a person is not being treated, but the disease is being treated. If you find a difference in these approaches, then there is a brain.
                      2. Liam
                        Liam 9 November 2021 14: 12
                        -5
                        Quote: Silvestr
                        fool

                        The offender of you is about the same as doctor)
                        Quote: Silvestr
                        Where do I deny the danger of covid?

                        We are waiting for a constructive idea of ​​how to overcome the epidemic from a professional ... not pathetic babble about down with power, namely the vision of a professional
                        Quote: Silvestr
                        You need to treat a person, not a disease. "

                        This is a cheap demagoguery of an Internet user who has nothing special to say on the topic.
                      3. New Year day
                        New Year day 9 November 2021 14: 14
                        +3
                        Quote: Liam
                        Quote: Silvestr
                        fool

                        The offender of you is about the same as doctor)
                        Quote: Silvestr
                        Where do I deny the danger of covid?

                        We are waiting for a constructive idea of ​​how to overcome the epidemic from a professional ... not pathetic babble about down with power, namely the vision of a professional
                        Quote: Silvestr
                        You need to treat a person, not a disease. "

                        This is a cheap demagoguery of an Internet user who has nothing special to say on the topic.

                        IQ is clear. I have no questions. You are not the first idiot and balabol in my collection
                      4. Liam
                        Liam 9 November 2021 14: 26
                        0
                        Quote: Silvestr
                        I have no questions

                        The highly anticipated Instant Liquid Drain of Dr. Sylvester)
                        For a year and a half, Persian has been pressing a button on the subject of COVID and spreads with Yaroslavna's oppositional noah, seasoned with the worst fakes of the Russian Internet on anti-Akser topics, but is not able to put together a couple of related phrases explaining his position as a supposedly doctor - what kind of disease is it, is it an epidemic or not, how to overcome it what measures should be taken. Only chants and empty demagoguery
                      5. New Year day
                        New Year day 9 November 2021 14: 29
                        +4
                        Quote: Liam
                        The highly anticipated instant liquid drain

                        What is it? You accused me, so prove what you said.
                        I always say that when arguments run out, insults begin.
                        Hi handsome love
                      6. Liam
                        Liam 9 November 2021 14: 50
                        -4
                        Quote: Silvestr
                        I always say that when arguments end, insults begin.

                        )))
                        You need to understand this

                        And you turn out to be a fool


                        write from an overabundance of arguments
                        Quote: Silvestr
                        Hi handsome

                        Are you okay with the gender issue?
                      7. I am not a robot
                        I am not a robot 9 November 2021 17: 29
                        -5
                        so you were the first to insult, you do not give any facts, just shout hysterically about the violation of laws.
                      8. Shahno
                        Shahno 9 November 2021 14: 33
                        +3
                        And that's true. And how is your situation. Will you not have to slow down the virus in Siberia?
                        Frozen, that's all ..
                      9. Liam
                        Liam 9 November 2021 14: 51
                        -6
                        What are you talking about specifically?
                      10. Shahno
                        Shahno 9 November 2021 15: 00
                        +5
                        I mean ... Whose side are you on. Here Sylvester voiced his position, he believes that this vaccine is not very effective. But there are not very many ways to solve it ...
                        So I ask, about your proposals, or everything is as it goes, so let it be.
                      11. I am not a robot
                        I am not a robot 9 November 2021 17: 33
                        -7
                        vaccine, quarantine, masks, and there are no more ways to deal with the pandemic, the caranovirus cannot be treated (so medicine has nothing to do with it), just someone will easily get sick (for example, vaccinated), but someone is all,
                      12. Overlock
                        Overlock 9 November 2021 20: 19
                        +2
                        Sorry for intruding into your discussion, but your words
                        Quote: Shahno
                        I mean ... Whose side are you on. Here Sylvester voiced his position, he believes that this vaccine is not very effective, as it were.

                        it's not just your words.
                        Almost all authors of well-known vaccines state that the effectiveness of their offspring is declining. The question is about people's attitudes towards the safety of these vaccines, and this question is extremely important.
                      13. Piligrim
                        Piligrim 9 November 2021 21: 56
                        +1
                        Is it possible to find a more reliable source than Welcom Trust? One name is worth it.
                      14. Overlock
                        Overlock 9 November 2021 21: 59
                        +2
                        Quote: Piligrim
                        Is it possible to find a more reliable source than Welcom Trust? One name is worth it.

                        "It doesn't matter what color the cat is if it catches mice." The public's confidence in the vaccine determines the number of people vaccinated. Is not it?
                      15. Wertgan
                        Wertgan 9 November 2021 14: 09
                        -10
                        That's for sure. Two comrades - fighters against our statehood
                      16. Overlock
                        Overlock 9 November 2021 20: 20
                        +4
                        Quote: WertGan
                        Two comrades - fighters against our statehood

                        What does Covid and statehood have to do with it?
                      17. New Year day
                        New Year day 10 November 2021 12: 31
                        -1
                        Quote: Overlock
                        What does Covid and statehood have to do with it?

                        Sometimes it's better to remain silent. I want to show my importance to the master
                    2. atalef
                      atalef 9 November 2021 11: 31
                      +1
                      Quote: Svarog
                      Quote: Liam
                      You seem to have forgotten that before the introduction of mass vaccination children in the middle of the 20th century, infant mortality was around 50%

                      I remembered about the propaganda about children and began to actively move to the masses .. start stabbing children, wake up with things in England ..

                      I do not think that in the case of covid, one can draw an analogy with such diseases as smallpox or polymeelitis, since smallpox and polymeelitis children got sick and died. children practically do not get sick with covid or get sick in a mild form, while vaccination does not exclude infection. As a result, we have, with or without vaccination, the child will be ill in a mild form, in this equation, in my understanding, the vaccine is superfluous.
                      1. Svarog
                        Svarog 9 November 2021 11: 37
                        +9
                        Quote: atalef
                        I do not think that in the case of covid, one can draw an analogy with such diseases as smallpox or polymeelitis, since smallpox and polymeelitis children got sick and died. children practically do not get sick with covid or get sick in a mild form, while vaccination does not exclude infection. As a result, we have, with or without vaccination, the child will be ill in a mild form, in this equation, in my understanding, the vaccine is superfluous.

                        Do you have any balanced comments on this topic. But I’m not an anti-virus .. I understand the usefulness of vaccinations .. But not in this case. As with the flu, everything is the same with the coronavirus. The benefits of vaccination are minimal here, and given the possible complications and weakening of the immune system, the harm may be greater. More than 100 varieties of corona, flu also many strains .. Why didn’t you get the flu vaccine of all strains? And from the crown, please .. hop and for a year they began to babble .. Because it is not yet possible. And I injected myself several times from the flu vaccine ... but it was in this year that I was very sick .. After which I decided not to inject .. and stopped hurting much. Let them not stutter about children in general ... my eyes are filled with blood when I start to hear it ..
                      2. Oleg Zorin
                        Oleg Zorin 9 November 2021 20: 40
                        0
                        No not like this. You are right in the sense that the vaccine ALREADY does not give a 100% guarantee against the disease. But the whole point is that sick children easily produce new strains of the virus in their bodies. According to the laws of microbiology, sooner or later, in this way, new strains will appear that will easily bypass vaccines. By immunizing children, the likelihood of the appearance of new strains is pushed aside late, with mass vaccination - never.
                  3. Cat Kuzya
                    Cat Kuzya 9 November 2021 10: 31
                    +8
                    It can be seen that some of the accusers of the others have forgotten that poverty, chronic malnutrition and the lack of all kinds of medical assistance affect child mortality both then in Russia and now in Africa. If you are a doctor, then I am already scared of a doctor who does not understand such simple things. Give African children a bowl of vaccine instead of soup and they won't starve to death. Yeah. Don't blame others, Sylvester writes correctly. No one underestimates the role of vaccines, but it is vaccines, and not turbid slurries with an incomprehensible effect, and even hastily developed.
                    1. atalef
                      atalef 9 November 2021 11: 32
                      +4
                      Quote: Kuzya the Cat
                      ... Give African children a bowl of vaccine instead of soup and they won't starve to death. Yeah

                      what has it to do with one another, vaccination does not save you from dying in an accident. And now what to do about it?
                    2. Oleg Zorin
                      Oleg Zorin 9 November 2021 20: 42
                      +1
                      How long do you think AstraZeneca was created? Was it created, not bureaucratic?
                      1. atalef
                        atalef 9 November 2021 20: 53
                        -1
                        Quote: Oleg Zorin
                        How long do you think AstraZeneca was created? Was it created, not bureaucratic?

                        I know that God created everything in 7 days, how long it took to make Zeneca - sorry, I don’t know.
                      2. Oleg Zorin
                        Oleg Zorin 10 November 2021 12: 09
                        +2
                        72 hours laughing The rest of the time was occupied by the bureaucratic procedure for assessing efficiency and quality and registration
                  4. Illanatol
                    Illanatol 13 November 2021 14: 37
                    0
                    Smallpox, and poliomyelitis and meningitis and many other deadly diseases will return that killed millions of children and were defeated only by vaccines.


                    It is believed that it was the mass vaccination against smallpox in African countries that allowed the AIDS virus to break out and roam.
                    Vaccination, alas, can sometimes be a double-edged sword.
                    Although without vaccination - you can get a stick with one end (sorry, not with the ladies).
                    Well, you understand ... fellow
                4. Silver bullet
                  Silver bullet 9 November 2021 09: 58
                  +10
                  I give you a bold plus (for the first time, probably), but this is really so. It is not the older generation who is dying in my environment, but those who are 40, 50 years old (they burn out in a few days, most of them are not vaccinated and have not been sick before) and this is scary. It is a pity that people do not realize this.
                  1. Artyom Karagodin
                    Artyom Karagodin 9 November 2021 11: 14
                    +2
                    And I gave you a plus, Ivan. Only recently I received exactly the same data from an epidemiologist friend, when I was preparing material on vaccination for our newspaper.
                    1. Silver bullet
                      Silver bullet 9 November 2021 11: 32
                      +4
                      Believe me, I am talking with the head of the hospital. He says that the last mutation of the covid strain differs from the virus that we had last year (I was in the covid center with 15%, but with a severe storm, it didn't seem to me a little, I still can't recover, then my wife fell ill, the temperature 39 held on for five days). Now there is a funeral every week, sometimes godfathers, sometimes acquaintances, sometimes veterans, age 40-60, scary for the children, we lived at least a little. Some commentators remind me of a picture

                      People, vaccination is not a panacea or a magic pill, it is your chance to survive in case of illness!
                      Sorry, cry from the heart.
                      1. Hypertension
                        Hypertension 9 November 2021 12: 05
                        +13
                        Quote: Silver bullet
                        He says the latest mutation in the covid strain is different from the virus we got last year.

                        Does the vaccine take this into account? Or is it from the "old" strain?
                      2. Silver bullet
                        Silver bullet 9 November 2021 12: 38
                        +3
                        The vaccine was made for the first option (I don't know how it is modified, but according to military doctors, the most effective of ours is Sputnik), the methods of intensive therapy that worked a year ago are now less effective, but doctors receive methods from Moscow all the time (we were injected with antibiotics, now they seem to be pricked in extreme cases).
                      3. Hypertension
                        Hypertension 9 November 2021 13: 01
                        +7
                        Quote: Silver bullet
                        The vaccine was made for the first option (I don't know how it is modified

                        Do they modify it? And even if they are modifying, is it not necessary to do a separate vaccination for each strain? At the moment, the main strains are 7 (seven). 139 All strains were identified in the Russian Federation. Can a Sputnik targeting one strain help in the fight against another?
                      4. Silver bullet
                        Silver bullet 9 November 2021 13: 26
                        +8
                        If I were a luminous medicine, I would answer your question. I'm just trying to explain from personal observations and analysis that a year ago the mortality rate was somewhere far away, then in December three acquaintances died (one over 70, two over 65) and this was already an alarming signal. Then he himself had been ill, for 3 weeks he lay in a covid one. And this year (since July) the funeral of relatives and friends every week. Someone buried both parents, someone a son (40 years old). And most of them were not vaccinated. If the virus constantly mutates, I'm afraid they won't invent a universal vaccine.
                      5. Hypertension
                        Hypertension 9 November 2021 13: 38
                        +11
                        Quote: Silver bullet
                        If the virus constantly mutates, I'm afraid they won't invent a universal vaccine.

                        But then what is the point of vaccination itself? If we are vaccinated against each strain, then we will not have a living place from injections. I'm not even talking about the fact that after each vaccination a person has a fever for several days, and so on ... And if you get one vaccination against one strain, but be under the threat of exposure to other strains, then why is this Russian roulette? Moreover, a roulette, where of the seven chambers of the revolver, only one is empty.
                      6. Svarog
                        Svarog 9 November 2021 14: 03
                        +5
                        Quote: Hyperion
                        Quote: Silver bullet
                        If the virus constantly mutates, I'm afraid they won't invent a universal vaccine.

                        But then what is the point of vaccination itself? If we are vaccinated against each strain, then we will not have a living place from injections. I'm not even talking about the fact that after each vaccination a person has a fever for several days, and so on ... And if you get one vaccination against one strain, but be under the threat of exposure to other strains, then why is this Russian roulette? Moreover, a roulette, where of the seven chambers of the revolver, only one is empty.

                        Well you did it with the help of questions to bring your opponent to a logical conclusion .. I have been trying to explain for several months .. but simple truths are difficult to reach for some.
                      7. Hypertension
                        Hypertension 9 November 2021 15: 20
                        +5
                        Quote: Svarog
                        Well, you did it well with the help of questions to lead your opponent to a logical conclusion.

                        Because the logic is the same for everyone, and everyone has their own opinion about vaccination. Often subjective.
                      8. Oleg Zorin
                        Oleg Zorin 9 November 2021 20: 52
                        +2
                        Vaccination alone will not solve the problem. A set of measures is needed - vaccination, strict adherence to the anti-epidemic regime (yes, including masks), quarantine measures against the introduction of infection into the country (Africa will never be vaccinated, you shouldn't even hope). China is the closest to this now. Will it be so in Russia - no, it will never be. Therefore, our prospects are ... shall we say, vague.
                      9. Serge-667
                        Serge-667 10 November 2021 19: 42
                        -4
                        ... yes, yes, including masks)) ...


                        A rag mask, which everyone happily wears, according to regulatory documents, is not a means of individual protection and does not protect against the entry of the virus into the body. Likewise, it does not prevent the virus from leaving the body.
                      10. Oleg Zorin
                        Oleg Zorin 10 November 2021 21: 49
                        +2
                        The virus leaves the body by itself or is it on something? Any, even the most inferior mask reduces the number of snot flying out. The less snot flies out, the fewer viruses. But, of course, I agree with you that there are profanity masks, I saw from beads.
                      11. Serge-667
                        Serge-667 10 November 2021 22: 16
                        -4
                        Any, even the most inferior mask reduces the number of snot flying out.


                        Do you smoke? Try to inhale properly, then put on this muzzle and blow out the smoke. You will be pleasantly surprised. (Then do the same WITHOUT the mask). If you are at least a little on friendly terms with your head and logic, evaluate which of the options is less safe for others, all other things being equal.

                        The virus also leaves the body through the lymphatic system. And you will not close it in any way, except for a spacesuit.
                        Are we going to IT?
                        Or, nevertheless, let us naturally self-regulate?
                        I will allow myself blasphemy, but the one who must die will die. And no amount of coronavirus measures, including vaccinations, will change anything.
                        Alas.
                      12. would
                        would 9 November 2021 18: 05
                        +4
                        139 All strains were identified in the Russian Federation. Can a Sputnik targeting one strain help in the fight against another?


                        Yes. The number of strains does not matter, the antigenic profile matters. As long as the antigen stays roughly the same, the vaccine targeting it will work.

                        Let's take tick-borne encephalitis as an example. He does not just have a bunch of strains, he has territorial subtypes with different clinical courses, they differ from each other much more than COVID. And all vaccines are 100% universal, not only protect against each strain, but it is possible to change them in the vaccination scheme.
                      13. Hypertension
                        Hypertension 9 November 2021 19: 28
                        +10
                        Quote: rait
                        Yes. The number of strains does not matter, the antigenic profile matters. As long as the antigen stays roughly the same, the vaccine targeting it will work.

                        If so ... The head of the Gamaleya center Gunzburg himself has not yet decided whether Sputnik helps with all the strains or not. Then he says that:
                        The head of the Gamaleya center admitted that "Sputnik V" cannot fully protect against the "Indian" strain

                        Then he declares that:
                        Sputnik V does not protect against Covid and severe disease - vaccine creator Gunzburg confirmed

                        He then states:
                        Sputnik V protects against all strains of coronavirus, Gunzburg said

                        But then he adds:
                        "Anyway, we created it this wayso that it protects against a very wide number of strains, "the academician added.

                        That is: they wanted the best ...
                        If you carefully study what has recently been said to the public by the director of the National Research Center for Epidemiology and Microbiology named after Gamaleya Alexander Gunzburg, you get a steady feeling that he is trying to justify himself. He is clearly trying to remove from himself and from the experimental vaccine "Sputnik V", developed under his leadership, the growing suspicions in society of the involvement of this vaccine in the increase in the incidence of Covid-19 in Russia, in the involvement of this vaccine in the increase in deaths from Covid-19 in Russia ... He is ready to blame anyone for the increase in the incidence of covid and deaths from covid, but not himself, and not his vaccine.
                      14. would
                        would 9 November 2021 20: 23
                        -4
                        A bunch of type quotes from Gunzburg lead to the sites of the garbage can, which is very revealing. And most importantly, they do not affect the foundations of immunology in any way, where the interaction of antibodies and antigen is described.
                      15. Hypertension
                        Hypertension 9 November 2021 21: 14
                        +5
                        Quote: rait
                        A bunch of type quotes from Gunzburg lead to the sites of the garbage can, which is very revealing.

                        Are RBC and RIA Novosti trash heaps? And then what is not garbage, enlighten?
                        Quote: rait
                        do not affect the basics of immunology in any way where the interaction of the antibody and antigen is described

                        The vast majority of the population is not very clear about these your antibodies-shmantibodies. Ordinary people listen to what the experts have to say. And experts (in particular Gunzburg) give out conflicting information that does not in any way contribute to the credibility of vaccination.
                      16. would
                        would 10 November 2021 05: 08
                        0
                        Are RBC and RIA Novosti trash heaps?


                        Congratulations to Mr. Sovramshi!

                        "Then he declares that:
                        Sputnik V does not protect from Covid and from the severe course of the disease - confirmed the creator of the vaccine Gunzburg "- leads to Russian news where right next to the right is a video of the famous" psychic "Levashov called" UFO in the form of a pyramid over the Kremlin " wassat ... The second link is myrtesen. Did you think that if you did not specifically give the link, no one would come in to check it?

                        "If you carefully study what has recently been said to the public by the director of the Gamaleya National Research Center for Epidemiology and Microbiology, Alexander Gunzburg, you get a strong feeling that he is trying to justify himself" - leads to obscurant LiveJournal and Finnews. I am sure that next time you will quote me TikTok.

                        The vast majority of the population is not very clear about these your antibodies-shmantibodies. Ordinary people listen to what the experts have to say. And experts (in particular Gunzburg) give out conflicting information that does not in any way contribute to the credibility of vaccination.


                        This is not the "overwhelming majority of the population", and not some "specialists", and even more so not Gunzburg, but personally, you missed a lot in biology and instead you eat garbage sites, vatsapa, tiktoki. It was necessary to study at school and then there would be no such problems.
                      17. Hypertension
                        Hypertension 10 November 2021 09: 19
                        +2
                        Quote: rait
                        you missed a lot in biology and instead you are eating garbage sites, vatsapa, tiktoki.

                        And you call me sovramshi? What are the tiktoks and watsaps? A cheap demagogic trick called "straw scarecrow". What did you two weeks ago accused the author of one of the articles on VO.
                        And you are not looking at Levashov's video. Maybe this is generally contextual advertising, which was selected in accordance with your interests.
                        And I still do not understand whether RBC and RIA Novosti are quoted in your company? Or will you squeal: "trash heap, trash heap" - and no sites can tell you?
                      18. would
                        would 10 November 2021 10: 31
                        +1
                        Well, it is very expected that in essence you did not answer anything, because I wrote the truth and these are really garbage sites with pseudo-quotes. I will not even disassemble the rest of the links, everything is clear there.

                        And you are not looking at Levashov's video. Maybe this is generally contextual advertising, which was selected in accordance with your interests.


                        As a person who entered that trash can, you know perfectly well that this is not contextual advertising, but a section of the site. You have found and referred to these quotes, which means that these are your interests.
                      19. Hypertension
                        Hypertension 10 November 2021 13: 03
                        +2
                        Quote: rait
                        I will not even analyze the rest of the links, everything is clear there.

                        Of course you won't. So it's easier - to declare one site a trash heap and say that the rest are the same. You know what they say: a bee sees only flowers, and a fly sees garbage dumps.
                        But in essence, we see that vaccination promotion is going very badly. They say one thing, then the second, then the third ... Sputnik Light is either an independent vaccine, or "for revaccination." It seems to be a lockdown, it seems to be not a lockdown. Either vaccination is voluntary, or else - try not to be vaccinated ... Neither fish nor meat.
                      20. New Year day
                        New Year day 10 November 2021 12: 33
                        0
                        Quote: rait
                        A bunch of type quotes from Gunzburg lead to garbage sites

                        watch his performances on YouTube from the box

                        Quote: rait
                        very revealing.
                      21. would
                        would 11 November 2021 14: 08
                        0
                        watch his performances on YouTube from the box


                        If you write, then write about something specific. What specific performance do you mean and why watch it specifically? Since 2020, I've probably seen dozens of his performances and I have no idea which one you mean exactly.
                      22. Overlock
                        Overlock 9 November 2021 20: 32
                        +4
                        Quote: Hyperion
                        Quote: rait
                        Yes. The number of strains does not matter, the antigenic profile matters. As long as the antigen stays roughly the same, the vaccine targeting it will work.

                        If so ... The head of the Gamaleya center Gunzburg himself has not yet decided whether Sputnik helps with all the strains or not. Then he says that:
                        The head of the Gamaleya center admitted that "Sputnik V" cannot fully protect against the "Indian" strain

                        Then he declares that:
                        Sputnik V does not protect against Covid and severe disease - vaccine creator Gunzburg confirmed

                        He then states:
                        Sputnik V protects against all strains of coronavirus, Gunzburg said

                        But then he adds:
                        "In any case, we created it in such a way that it would protect against a very wide number of strains," the academician added.

                        That is: they wanted the best ...
                        If you carefully study what has recently been said to the public by the director of the National Research Center for Epidemiology and Microbiology named after Gamaleya Alexander Gunzburg, you get a steady feeling that he is trying to justify himself. He is clearly trying to remove from himself and from the experimental vaccine "Sputnik V", developed under his leadership, the growing suspicions in society of the involvement of this vaccine in the increase in the incidence of Covid-19 in Russia, in the involvement of this vaccine in the increase in deaths from Covid-19 in Russia ... He is ready to blame anyone for the increase in the incidence of covid and deaths from covid, but not himself, and not his vaccine.

                        You can not do it this way! You provoke your opponent to freeze, files get confused
                      23. Oleg Zorin
                        Oleg Zorin 9 November 2021 20: 56
                        +2
                        Well, for the sake of truth - the effectiveness of the vaccine against tick-borne encephalitis is 95% and revaccination is required every 3 years ... If I have not forgotten anything. But there are no other options, you are right
                      24. Oleg Zorin
                        Oleg Zorin 9 November 2021 20: 47
                        0
                        YET it can.
                      25. Oleg Zorin
                        Oleg Zorin 9 November 2021 20: 46
                        -1
                        Vaccines (all) from the old Wuhan strain. So far, at the very least, it is covering up from the "delta". And the longer the population will engage in bullshit, evading vaccinations, the more likely the emergence of new strains that will be easily bypassed by the vaccine. This is a biological law, you can't argue with it.
                      26. Hypertension
                        Hypertension 9 November 2021 21: 25
                        +1
                        Quote: Oleg Zorin
                        the more likely the emergence of new strains that will be easily bypassed by the vaccine.

                        Delta seems to be bypassing already.
                        Professor Vladimir Chulanov warned that the "delta" strain of coronavirus is capable of "escaping the neutralizing effect of antibodies due to vaccine prevention." That is, it turns out that the vaccine against it may be powerless.
                      27. Oleg Zorin
                        Oleg Zorin 9 November 2021 21: 28
                        +2
                        "Delta" has not succeeded in doing this yet with every person. But you need to understand that this is a trend. What Delta does somehow, it will be easy for Upsilon
                      28. Hypertension
                        Hypertension 9 November 2021 21: 39
                        +3
                        Quote: Oleg Zorin
                        What Delta does somehow, it will be easy for Upsilon

                        However, vaccination creates new strains.
                        Gamaleya Center acknowledges vaccination accelerates the emergence of new strains of coronavirus
                      29. Oleg Zorin
                        Oleg Zorin 10 November 2021 12: 04
                        +2
                        Gamaleya Center acknowledges vaccination accelerates the emergence of new strains of coronavirus
                        The center of Gamaleya, and specifically Gunzburg, would be better off keeping quiet. Moreover, PERSONALLY the academician is not related to the development of a vaccine, but to raking off the dough
                      30. Hypertension
                        Hypertension 10 November 2021 14: 18
                        +1
                        Director of the Vaccine Development Center it would be better to keep quiet..?
                        It does not matter whether he is related to the development or not, but experts must compose a press release for him, which he, as an official, would voice to the public.
                      31. Oleg Zorin
                        Oleg Zorin 10 November 2021 21: 51
                        +2
                        By God, it would be better to keep quiet. Do not know. what releases they write to him, but when he starts his impromptu ... it would be better to keep quiet
                      32. Ingvar 72
                        Ingvar 72 9 November 2021 12: 23
                        +11
                        Quote: Silver bullet
                        People, vaccination is not a panacea or a magic pill, it is your chance to survive in case of illness!

                        Why, then, world-famous people, academicians Zverev, Chuchalin, doctors of sciences Poletaev, Shafalinov, Gundarov, Redko and many others, think differently? Charlatans, and Golikova, Popova and Murashko are highly professional and highly moral people?
                      33. atalef
                        atalef 9 November 2021 12: 36
                        +3
                        Quote: Ingvar 72
                        Quote: Silver bullet
                        People, vaccination is not a panacea or a magic pill, it is your chance to survive in case of illness!

                        Why, then, world-famous people, academicians Zverev, Chuchalin, doctors of sciences Poletaev, Shafalinov, Gundarov, Redko and many others, think differently? Charlatans, and Golikova, Popova and Murashko are highly professional and highly moral people?

                        Igor, now there are so many opinions (on any occasion) that even if you start looking for a support group and a theoretical basis for your desire (this is an example), to fuck a crocodile - believe me, there will be thousands of supporters and even with a theoretical basis.
                        What am I doing. there are luminaries in favor of vaccination, there are luminaries in opposition.
                        Who is right ?
                        It's up to you to decide. There is a lot of information, but how to interpret it is up to you.
                        For any, you can find both pros and cons.
                        Your best bet is to look at facts that are hard to fake - the increase in mortality and the number of critically ill patients.
                        And then it's up to you to decide. how to do and what.
                        My wife's friend rasskzala to me here, was at the funeral 3 weeks ago. Family mother, father and daughter. Mother and father were vaccinated, got sick, not seriously, were ill at home. and my daughter did not want to be vaccinated (27 years old), so in order to get immunity, she slept with her mother, so that she would get infected.
                        She fell ill and died. This is such crap.
                        On whom as it falls, we also have the vaccinated die, but very little and very old age.
                        There is no recipe, everyone decides for himself.
                      34. Ingvar 72
                        Ingvar 72 9 November 2021 13: 10
                        +7
                        Hi Volodya!
                        Quote: atalef
                        What am I doing. there are luminaries in favor of vaccination, there are luminaries in opposition.

                        For some reason, these luminaries, who talk about elementary things for virology, and ask questions that are inconvenient for officials from medicine, are very quickly cleaned out even by YouTube.
                        In the official media, luminaries from officials rule.
                      35. atalef
                        atalef 9 November 2021 14: 14
                        0
                        Quote: Ingvar 72
                        Hi Volodya!

                        Why the hell am I already Volodya? laughing
                        Quote: Ingvar 72
                        For some reason, these luminaries, who talk about elementary things for virology, and ask questions that are inconvenient for officials from medicine, are very quickly cleaned out even by YouTube.
                        In the official media, luminaries from officials rule.

                        It's up to you to decide. The worldwide conspiracy can be seen even in a barrel of jam and in a basket of cookies.
                      36. Ingvar 72
                        Ingvar 72 9 November 2021 14: 42
                        +4
                        Quote: atalef
                        Why the hell am I already Volodya?

                        Forgive Levoslavny, he was beguiled blindly! wassat
                        Quote: atalef
                        The worldwide conspiracy can be seen even in a barrel of jam and in a basket of cookies.

                        For you, the norm is a stupid policy of quarantines, curry codes, and compulsory vaccination? Which has your government admitted to be useless against new strains? belay
                      37. atalef
                        atalef 9 November 2021 15: 19
                        0
                        Quote: Ingvar 72

                        For you, the norm is a stupid policy of quarantines, curry codes, and compulsory vaccination?

                        No, quarantines, codes are complete nonsense.
                        Vaccination is problematic, but this is a solution to the problem, not 100%, but the best at the moment
                      38. I am not a robot
                        I am not a robot 9 November 2021 17: 42
                        -7
                        Here's an example: in Russia, 30% of the vaccinated, the result is in the text, in Israel, 80% of the vaccinated, the result is much better and medicine is not here, and there is still no cure for caranovirus
                      39. Ingvar 72
                        Ingvar 72 9 November 2021 17: 48
                        +9
                        Quote: Janerobot
                        medicine is nothing to do with here

                        Of course not, you can generally optimize it to zero, and it is treated with plantain and vaccination! wassat
                        Burn on! good
                        P. S. The letters C and Z are by no means next to each other on the keyboard, like O and A. wink
                      40. I am not a robot
                        I am not a robot 9 November 2021 17: 54
                        -9
                        Well, how can medicine help if there is no cure for the caranovirus?
                        somehow you can explain this issue or, in addition to putting a minus, or shout slogans, nothing more
                        and the optimization is here, plantain-che for hysteria
                      41. Ingvar 72
                        Ingvar 72 9 November 2021 18: 24
                        +8
                        Quote: Janerobot
                        Well, how can medicine help if there is no cure for the caranovirus?

                        Today, half of the beds remaining for covid after optimization have been taken away. Do not think is not ours?
                        Quote: Janerobot
                        or, in addition to the minus, put

                        I don't play them at all.
                      42. I am not a robot
                        I am not a robot 9 November 2021 18: 43
                        -3
                        how a bed will help with covid if there is no medicine,
                        Russian Federation ~ 8,4
                        Israel 3,4
                        USA 3
                        Great Britain 3
                        our medicine is better than in these countries
                      43. Ingvar 72
                        Ingvar 72 9 November 2021 18: 51
                        +7
                        Quote: Janerobot
                        how a bed will help with covid if there is no medicine,

                        Why not? This is a question of logic if that. wink
                      44. I am not a robot
                        I am not a robot 9 November 2021 19: 04
                        -2
                        so there is practically no flu either, you are sick and do not heal for 7 days or you drink pills for the same 7 days and there are no heaps of diseases, and covid, with such an infection, has increased mutation ability, so maybe a medicine will never be created
                        Well, if, according to your logic, then this is of course a conspiracy of the government to destroy all of us, but how can you logically connect your and the fighters with Putin's slogans that the people are new oil for power (few people, little oil, little money)
                      45. Overlock
                        Overlock 9 November 2021 20: 39
                        +1
                        Quote: Ingvar 72
                        This is a question of logic if that.

                        Comrade's logic is tense
                      46. I am not a robot
                        I am not a robot 9 November 2021 21: 28
                        -3
                        well, do not speak in riddles, but answer in essence, otherwise you will not understand with your logic
                      47. Overlock
                        Overlock 9 November 2021 20: 39
                        +3
                        Quote: Janerobot
                        our medicine is better than in these countries

                        Come, but not to Moscow or St. Petersburg. Better somewhere far away, in the hinterland
                      48. I am not a robot
                        I am not a robot 9 November 2021 21: 27
                        -4
                        I live in the Saratov region, it's like in the depths, and you first read about what the conversation was about
                      49. Overlock
                        Overlock 9 November 2021 21: 36
                        +1
                        Quote: Janerobot
                        I live in the Saratov region, it's like in the depths

                        God help
                      50. Overlock
                        Overlock 9 November 2021 20: 37
                        +6
                        Quote: Janerobot
                        and here optimization

                        Despite the fact that the optimization has led to the closure of a large number of hospitals and clinics, there has been a reduction in the number of doctors - their number has become smaller and even more so. Now, if you don't pour gasoline into the car's gas tank, will your car go?
                      51. I am not a robot
                        I am not a robot 9 November 2021 21: 38
                        -5
                        what a reduction in doctors, there is a lack of personnel, there is no one to work, wake up already and return to the real world
                      52. Overlock
                        Overlock 9 November 2021 22: 04
                        +3
                        Quote: Janerobot
                        what a reduction in doctors, there is a lack of personnel, there is no one to work, wake up already and return to the real world

                        If you walked through the forest ... you need to read
                        "The authorities will study the reasons for the shortage of doctors in the regions"
                        https://www.kommersant.ru/doc/5064042
                      53. I am not a robot
                        I am not a robot 9 November 2021 22: 17
                        -3
                        you go there yourself
                        "The authorities will study the reasons for the shortage of doctors in the regions" - how this refutes my words about the shortage of doctors
                      54. Overlock
                        Overlock 9 November 2021 20: 34
                        +6
                        Quote: Janerobot
                        in Russia, 30% of the vaccinated, the result is in the text, in Israel, 80% of the vaccinated, the result is much better and medicine is here and there is still no cure for caranovirus

                        Are you friends with the Russian language?
                      55. I am not a robot
                        I am not a robot 9 November 2021 21: 32
                        -4
                        and here's my Russian here, when you can simply answer the question, why in Israel where there are no slaves, 80% of the vaccinated, and the coronavirus does not break records, and in Russia where, according to your slaves, 30% of the vaccinated and break all records
                      56. Overlock
                        Overlock 9 November 2021 21: 35
                        +1
                        Quote: Janerobot
                        80% of the vaccinated, and the coronavirus does not break records, and in Russia, where, according to your slaves, 30% of the vaccinated and break all records

                        Hans Kluge, Director of the European Bureau of the World Health Organization:
                        "Over the past four weeks in Europe, the number of new cases of COVID-19 has increased by more than 55%. Last week, the European region and Central Asia accounted for 59% of all COVID-19 cases worldwide and 48% of reported deaths. the European region has more cases (78 million) than Southeast Asia, the Eastern Mediterranean, the Western Pacific and Africa combined. We're back in the epicenter. "
                        Will his answer suit you?
                      57. atalef
                        atalef 9 November 2021 21: 39
                        0
                        Quote: Overlock
                        Quote: Janerobot
                        80% of the vaccinated, and the coronavirus does not break records, and in Russia, where, according to your slaves, 30% of the vaccinated and break all records

                        Hans Kluge, Director of the European Bureau of the World Health Organization:
                        "Over the past four weeks in Europe, the number of new cases of COVID-19 has increased by more than 55%. Last week, the European region and Central Asia accounted for 59% of all COVID-19 cases worldwide and 48% of reported deaths. the European region has more cases (78 million) than Southeast Asia, the Eastern Mediterranean, the Western Pacific and Africa combined. We're back in the epicenter. "
                        Will his answer suit you?

                        Of course, nonsense, in Africa in 3/4 of the countries they do not test for covid at all, in the same Belarus the statistic is zero, and in Austria there are 200 tons of tests per day, there is nothing to say. And the official is a dolboy, the lack of tests does not mean the absence of covid.
                      58. Overlock
                        Overlock 9 November 2021 22: 03
                        0
                        Quote: atalef
                        And the official is a dolboy

                        As simple as "dolboy" and no problem
                      59. Svarog
                        Svarog 9 November 2021 14: 15
                        +4
                        Quote: Ingvar 72
                        In the official media, luminaries from officials rule.

                        Hi Igor! As you know, Gates invested a lot in the pharmaceutical business ... and WHO is, in fact, an organization controlled by him .. From here, if you dance .. (as soon as he invested the money, he immediately squealed about an imminent epidemic), then the following turns out ..
                        Our officials fully comply with all WHO requirements ... even if they are absurd. And then the question arises - why? Either there is a real shadow government, which is currently changing the social system around the world through covid ... Either our officials were seized or financially stimulated .. But then the question arises .. Where is the guarantor? And then the answer is that he is either absolutely incapable of reasoning and receiving reliable information, or he is in a share with them .. Here I do not have an unambiguous answer, both options may be correct. Hence all the obscurantism .. I do not see any other options.
                      60. Silver bullet
                        Silver bullet 9 November 2021 12: 57
                        -3
                        Sorry, the opinions of these luminaries
                        I am not interested in my relatives and friends who have buried or are burying their relatives. To be vaccinated or not is everyone's business, and then, as the author wrote, natural selection will work, if immunity wins, you will live and talk about the uselessness of vaccines, and if not (which I do not wish for you) then it is the will of God.
                      61. Ingvar 72
                        Ingvar 72 9 November 2021 13: 13
                        +9
                        Quote: Silver bullet
                        Sorry, the opinions of these luminaries
                        don't interest me

                        And from what did these people die? What baggage of chronic diseases did they have? What treatment protocol was used?
                        Or do you completely trust the chimera into which medicine has been turned today?
                      62. Silver bullet
                        Silver bullet 9 November 2021 13: 38
                        +4
                        When I was lying in a covid, my vision crumbled like in a children's kaleidoscope, the temperature was 39.5, my muscles were twisting inside out, diarrhea (I apologize for the details), but that was not what frightened me. I breathed like through cotton wool, could not breathe, given the presence of bronchial asthma. Everyone lay on their stomachs, and I, like a lion in a cage, walked around the ward until exhaustion, forcing myself to breathe, kept my saturation at 93-97. Many have concomitant illnesses that confine them to bed and wither away. Some of the deceased were PCR negative. Although I do not trust him (it was negative twice), CT of the lungs gives an answer whether there is covid or not (I saw my spots in the picture myself).
                        Covid either provokes chronic serious sores or finishes a person.
                      63. Ingvar 72
                        Ingvar 72 9 November 2021 13: 51
                        +9
                        Quote: Silver bullet
                        39.5 temperature

                        I had such a temperature at home one day, then dropped to 35. The rest of the symptoms are the same. And nothing, he recovered without vaccination. The wife and children were carried on their feet.
                        And categorically against vaccination of everyone in a row, regardless of age, risk group and chronicity. And even more so against compulsory vaccination and against vaccination of children.
                      64. Silver bullet
                        Silver bullet 9 November 2021 13: 58
                        +2
                        You are lucky (genetics and immunity are different for people), I, too, to some extent, but someone is not. And if they could be resurrected, they would tell you their story and try to change something in order to live a little longer.
                      65. Ingvar 72
                        Ingvar 72 9 November 2021 14: 38
                        +9
                        Quote: Silver bullet
                        then they would tell you their story and try to change something, h

                        I know people who, because of the stupid organization of covid-madness, did not wait for an ambulance with a different diagnosis. And you must admit that it is a crime to send outpatients with cancer to be treated with the growth of oncology, due to the fact that the oncology department was given a covid. And this is not only with cancer patients. It is also a crime to refuse planned operations without vaccination.
                      66. Flank
                        Flank 11 November 2021 15: 21
                        -3
                        Quote: Ingvar 72
                        I know people who, because of the stupid organization of covid-madness, did not wait for an ambulance with a different diagnosis.

                        This is all due to anti-axers. Instead of honestly not calling an ambulance until their last breath, they require treatment. If the people were grafted, then there would be no problems at all.
                      67. Flank
                        Flank 11 November 2021 15: 18
                        -3
                        Quote: Ingvar 72
                        And even more so against compulsory vaccination and against vaccination of children.

                        Now it is really early to vaccinate children (although it should be), but when infant mortality begins, then you will change your mind. And then, what's wrong with Sputnik vaccination? It is completely safe. Those who are afraid of the Sputnik should not get into the minibus, there is a completely non-zero probability of being killed.
                      68. Wertgan
                        Wertgan 9 November 2021 14: 19
                        +1
                        That's for sure. How to explain to people that they live in a colony? How to explain that in this world fools must first pay and then die?
                      69. Overlock
                        Overlock 9 November 2021 20: 43
                        +3
                        Quote: Silver bullet
                        Sorry, the opinions of these luminaries
                        I am not interested in my relatives and friends who have buried or are burying their relatives.

                        And who treats you then? Is it the Governor? These luminaries teach your doctors, who then heal you. If horsemen work in your city, then there are no questions. You can try your luck with veterinarians
                      70. Oleg Zorin
                        Oleg Zorin 10 November 2021 12: 06
                        0
                        None of those listed by you is a world-renowned scientist. If this is how the media is presented to you, it is propaganda.
                      71. Nastia makarova
                        Nastia makarova 9 November 2021 12: 26
                        -3
                        half of the vaccinated in our country actually bought certificates
                      72. New Year day
                        New Year day 9 November 2021 13: 51
                        +8
                        Quote: Nastia Makarova
                        half of the vaccinated in our country actually bought certificates

                        What is so little? laughing
                        Bald spoke about 80%, though later he disavowed it.
                        Bring your proof or blah blah?
                      73. Nastia makarova
                        Nastia makarova 9 November 2021 13: 54
                        0
                        there are a lot of acquaintances who needed to get a CR code for work, they just bought it
                      74. New Year day
                        New Year day 9 November 2021 14: 03
                        +4
                        Quote: Nastia Makarova
                        there are a lot of acquaintances who needed to get a CR code for work, they just bought it

                        It's clear. A lot is 50% or ....
                      75. Flank
                        Flank 11 November 2021 15: 23
                        -4
                        Quote: Silvestr
                        A lot is 50% or ..

                        A lot is even 5%, because people like you then spread isolated cases of death of those who stabbed as a regularity.
                      76. Snail N9
                        Snail N9 9 November 2021 14: 16
                        +3
                        And how did you buy it? Enlighten, maybe I'll buy it? You don't even need specifics, just explain how they did it. Or to lie not to roll bags?
                      77. Nastia makarova
                        Nastia makarova 9 November 2021 14: 27
                        0
                        agree in advance with the nurse who gives vaccinations, it is better to do it in a small or paid one, she lowers an injection into the sink and brings it into the base as if it was
                      78. Cat Kuzya
                        Cat Kuzya 9 November 2021 14: 57
                        +3
                        Interesting. And how much should you offer? Five thousand?
                      79. Nastia makarova
                        Nastia makarova 9 November 2021 15: 22
                        +3
                        here in Sochi it is now reaching 12 thousand, in the summer you can do it in 3-4
                      80. Overlock
                        Overlock 9 November 2021 20: 46
                        +1
                        Quote: Nastia Makarova
                        agree in advance with the nurse who gives vaccinations, it is better to do it in a small or paid one, she lowers an injection into the sink and brings it into the base as if it was

                        It turns out that they bought it themselves. Such subtleties are known only to eyewitnesses or participants.
                      81. Nastia makarova
                        Nastia makarova 10 November 2021 07: 31
                        0
                        no, until she was vaccinated at all, my cousin bought
                      82. Overlock
                        Overlock 9 November 2021 20: 25
                        +4
                        Quote: Silver bullet
                        People, vaccination is not a panacea or a magic pill, it is your chance to survive in case of illness!

                        Answer, those who have recovered from the presence of cellular immunity should be vaccinated?
                      83. Silver bullet
                        Silver bullet 9 November 2021 20: 44
                        -1
                        Contact professional virologists, I got sick a year ago and despite the presence of antibodies (although their indicator dropped from 15 to 5.9), contraindications (asthma, allergies to certain medications), I got vaccinated. Everyone decides for himself.
                      84. Overlock
                        Overlock 9 November 2021 21: 16
                        +5
                        Quote: Silver bullet
                        Everyone decides for himself.

                        In my opinion, this is the most important principle. But does the government observe it?
                      85. Vadim237
                        Vadim237 9 November 2021 22: 00
                        -1
                        Of course, everyone decides for himself - they buy left-hand vaccination certificates do not wear masks even do not wash their hands after the street. that every day since the beginning of the year from 300000 to 500 people have "departed" and the death rate from covid continues to grow in full, we can reach 1100 deaths per year from the disease, and if they still decide for themselves what to say about the mortality rate in Russia.
                      86. Oleg Zorin
                        Oleg Zorin 9 November 2021 21: 01
                        0
                        And where are you going to study your cellular immunity? Well, if you have access to laboratories like the Chumakov Center, then I'm sorry, of course. laughing
                      87. Overlock
                        Overlock 9 November 2021 21: 17
                        -1
                        Quote: Oleg Zorin
                        And where are you going to study your cellular immunity?

                        15 thousand and no questions asked. Haven't you seen the T and B lymphocytes? Can health be bought? But you can and should spend money on health.
                      88. Oleg Zorin
                        Oleg Zorin 9 November 2021 21: 24
                        0
                        Just seeing is not enough. There are several types of T and B cells that look exactly the same under a microscope. But how active they are to various infections is impossible to see. Special research is needed. The laboratory of the district hospital in Uryupinsk is not suitable for this. Not that level. Don't say such things to anyone else, people who understand will laugh.
                      89. New Year day
                        New Year day 10 November 2021 12: 38
                        -2
                        Quote: Oleg Zorin
                        Special research is needed. The laboratory of the district hospital in Uryupinsk is not suitable for this. Not that level.

                        Now yes. And earlier we did such analyzes at the Central Regional Hospital.
                      90. Oleg Zorin
                        Oleg Zorin 10 November 2021 21: 53
                        0
                        Are you seriously laughing?
                      91. Hantengri
                        Hantengri 9 November 2021 23: 33
                        +2
                        Quote: Overlock
                        Quote: Silver bullet
                        People, vaccination is not a panacea or a magic pill, it is your chance to survive in case of illness!

                        Answer, those who have recovered from the presence of cellular immunity should be vaccinated?

                        What is cellular immunity? There is no such thing and it cannot be! In Tilevizir, they scream only about the humoral. yes
                        According to modern covid-filling "concepts", the antibody titel decides everything. And you can shove your s (tr) and (n) memory B-lymphocytes into yourself ... WHO and all "independent" media do not approve of them! wassat
                        So, every six months, like a bayonet! Otherwise, the profit of "respected people" may decrease somewhat. And this is unacceptable!
                      92. Flank
                        Flank 11 November 2021 15: 24
                        -1
                        Quote: Overlock
                        Answer, those who have recovered from the presence of cellular immunity should be vaccinated?

                        Answer, who should refuel less than half a tank?
                5. Artyom Karagodin
                  Artyom Karagodin 9 November 2021 11: 11
                  +2
                  Long live common sense! Thank you for its high content in the comment.
                6. Ingvar 72
                  Ingvar 72 9 November 2021 12: 19
                  0
                  Quote: atalef
                  gave a crazy increase in patients, mostly asymptomatic or mild,

                  Then why, Sanya, according to the estimates of vaccinated patients with a severe form of the disease in Israel, aged 60 to 80 years, there are more than 70% of them? These are your calculations.
                7. And Us Rat
                  And Us Rat 9 November 2021 17: 28
                  +4
                  Quote: atalef
                  But the fact that vaccinations work for adults is - you will excuse me - a fact.

                  Vaccination is part of coronavirus.
                  Covid is dangerous mainly for the elderly and for carriers of background diseases (heart disease, diabetics, hypertensive patients, etc.).
                  I am over 40, my wife is over 30, have not been vaccinated (we are not antivaxers, we just do not trust poorly tested technologies), both had been ill last month (tests showed Covid), a week with a temperature of 37.5, slight weakness and that's it. No scary symptoms that scare everyone, and no "post-covid" (as we expected).
                  Therefore, injecting population groups that are not at risk is an unnecessary blow to the immune system. And so natural selection was killed with penicillin. In each subsequent generation, more and more genetic marriage, 90% are not viable without pills, women themselves can no longer give birth. Humanity is heading into the abyss. This is even outwardly noticeable:

                  19 century:

                  21 century:
                  1. Oleg Zorin
                    Oleg Zorin 9 November 2021 21: 02
                    0
                    No, well, if you deeply do not care about those around you, then your position could be expressed much shorter. And without pictures
                    1. And Us Rat
                      And Us Rat 9 November 2021 21: 13
                      +5
                      Quote: Oleg Zorin
                      my position could be expressed much shorter. And without pictures

                      It is possible, but given the average intellectual level of today's man in the street - with pictures it is shorter and most understandable. wink

                      Quote: Oleg Zorin
                      if you don't give a damn about others

                      I don't give a damn about humanity yes

                8. Piligrim
                  Piligrim 9 November 2021 21: 22
                  +3
                  You are like a doctor. you understand perfectly well that vaccination does not protect against disease, it protects against severe disease.

                  I am not a doctor, but my logic is normal and common sense is not lost yet. If the vaccine does not protect against the disease, as it turns out from the word at all, so why such a vaccine?
                  I have the following answer options:
                  - a scientific medical experiment
                  - scientific social experiment
                  - absolutely terrible: a bioinformation war has been started and is being waged against us as part of the 3rd world war of a new hybrid type
                  What answers do you have to this simple question?
            2. bk316
              bk316 9 November 2021 17: 17
              -1
              Well, they closed it in all countries, but for some reason, in terms of mortality rates, Russia is much higher than most countries.

              Maybe because the percentage of vaccinated people is much lower than most countries? No?
              1. unaha
                unaha 9 November 2021 19: 21
                +1
                It does not agree - if you look at vaccination and mortality in percentages by country, then in poor countries with a low level of vaccination, it is often quite comparable to the Russian Federation. In Chile, more vaccinated than in Israel, but the mortality rate is not much lower than in the Russian Federation.
                1. bk316
                  bk316 10 November 2021 12: 01
                  0
                  It does not agree - if you look at vaccination and mortality in percentages by country, then in poor countries with a low level of vaccination it is often quite comparable to the Russian Federation.

                  You entered into a polemic with me without even bothering to look at the data.
                  So we are in vaccination at the level of poor countries in terms of the percentage of vaccinations. Namely between Guyana and the Bahamas.
                  But it's not that. Take the trouble to understand. The dependence on the percentage of vaccination mortality and mortality is not just NONLINEAR, it is also non-monotonic. Actually, all virologists have been talking about this since the first days of the pandemic, when there were no vaccines yet. But you either don't want to hear it, or just don't understand. The rough model looks like this.
                  At first, the mortality rate does not practically depend on the percentage of vaccinated. More precisely, this dependence is within the statistical error.
                  With an increase in the percentage of vaccinated, at some point there is an INCREASE in mortality. This is due to several reasons (non-observance of the vaccinated requirements for social distancing, a milder course of the disease and, as a consequence, a greater social activity of vaccinated virus carriers, especially the registration of cases) is a separate topic.
                  Further, with an increase in the percentage of vaccinated, a certain threshold is reached (it is usually called population immunity) after which mortality and lethality drop sharply (several times). This threshold is different for each virus and strain.

                  England, and especially Malta, reached this threshold in the summer and death rates fell. Israel hangs out at the border, we are at the beginning of the second section and our mortality, on the contrary, is growing a little. This model was developed in the USSR at the beginning of the 60s and is still used with minor refinements. I wrote the code for it in 1992. hi
                  1. unaha
                    unaha 11 November 2021 11: 47
                    0
                    The arguments are logical and in general they are. Whether it will be so with this virus and the available vaccines will become clear much later, which follows from your own arguments. At the moment, the death rate in Israel, for example, has risen to values ​​a year ago. At the moment, there is a feeling that the result is brought rather by discipline of the population and rather strict adherence to epidemiological measures in developed countries, rather than vaccination.
                    1. bk316
                      bk316 11 November 2021 12: 45
                      0
                      the result is more likely to be the discipline of the population and rather strict adherence to epidemiological measures in developed countries than vaccination.

                      And that, of course, too. I will tell you what the problem is in our country - a terrible (worse than nothing) campaign to inform and promote anti-epidemic measures. The idea that vaccinated people do not need to observe anything from the same opera. I will say more to the matmodel that ours is 60, that they did not take this factor into account at all. More precisely, it was believed that these are independent factors. By the way, it's also an interesting story. If we consider that the factors are independent, we can single out which one affects more, which less, and if they depend on how (it turned out in this case) and even the dependence is two-sided, then everything is much more complicated and for the population there is only one way out - to consider that this is an indivisible set of measures. One way or another, the mathematical models are built and are being corrected all the time. According to all, it turns out that if the pandemic is not vaccinated, it will last for at least another 10 years, and an unpredictable factor can play here - a significant mutation. And then humanity can simply die out or return to the caves.
          3. The leader of the Redskins
            The leader of the Redskins 9 November 2021 07: 57
            +8
            They don't write how long it takes to wait for an ambulance car sometimes.
            And then another game "guessing" which hospital was taken.
          4. Svarog
            Svarog 9 November 2021 10: 18
            +5
            Quote: Snail N9
            Again this nonsense about "collective immunity". Already, even from all the irons, they changed this nonsense to another - that together with protection from the disease, vaccination, they say, will only facilitate the course of the disease

            Fedorov lives by the previous mantras .. he was told something else before he had time to rebuild.
            And as for the statistics of deaths from covid, they already wrote that all the statistics on this matter in Italy, during the investigation, turned out to be false, many times overstated.

            And we also stimulated this issue in monetary terms .. they pay extra for covid ..
          5. Klingon
            Klingon 9 November 2021 10: 43
            +3
            Italy and Spain in EUerii are (almost) third world countries. So .. In Germany, people are queuing up for vaccination with three G. And yes, you can't go anywhere without a QR code or a certificate, for "without a mask" a fine of up to 2000 Eurotugriks.
            And now it will not be possible to go to work without vaccinations. So that
            1. Nastia makarova
              Nastia makarova 9 November 2021 12: 28
              -7
              in Russia, 80% will not get injections, at best they will buy a certificate
          6. Sergej1972
            Sergej1972 10 November 2021 14: 21
            0
            Are you so brave in your comments, but at the same time resignedly endure the rudeness of your boss?
        3. Grandfather
          Grandfather 9 November 2021 06: 47
          -4
          Quote: parusnik
          You can read about what this ultimately can lead to from Uncle Darwin.
          And this is written in my commentary?

          it's in the article! what do you have to do with it. your "name" is randomness.
          1. The comment was deleted.
            1. The comment was deleted.
        4. flicker
          flicker 9 November 2021 10: 30
          -1
          And this is written in my commentary?
          There seems to be another problem here, you can comment on the article only after responding to someone else's comment. winked
      2. Stas157
        Stas157 9 November 2021 08: 54
        +8
        ... Despite all the admonitions of skeptics, the medical care of Russians in recent years got better.

        In what

        For tests, CT, and even for an appointment with narrow specialists - I pay money in paid medicine. Soon I will stop using the free one at all! What is better then? That free services are getting more and more unavailable every year?

        By the way, queues are already formed in paid clinics. Not in all, of course, but how does this characterize the quality of our free medicine!

        It would be more correct to say that medical care for Russians, every year, more and more flows onto their own shoulders.

        Complaints constantly arise against this author that his articles are filled with unfounded statements that are not supported by anything.
        1. New Year day
          New Year day 9 November 2021 09: 24
          +10
          Quote: Stas157
          ... Despite all the admonitions of skeptics, the medical care of Russians in recent years got better.


          It would be more correct to say that medical care for Russians, every year, more and more flows onto their own shoulders ..

          That is why, taking care of the health of the country's population, the health care budget was cut
          1. Stas157
            Stas157 9 November 2021 09: 43
            +9
            Quote: Silvestr
            That is why, taking care of the health of the country's population, the health budget cut back

            hi Moreover, they cut it in rubles, despite price inflation and the devaluation of the ruble. It was considered that during a pandemic and high mortality rates ... it is possible to cut medical costs! And people like Fedorov will write that everything is okay with us.
        2. Oleg Zorin
          Oleg Zorin 9 November 2021 21: 05
          0
          Service is in saunas and hairdressers. In medicine, help
          1. New Year day
            New Year day 10 November 2021 12: 39
            0
            Quote: Oleg Zorin
            Service is in saunas and hairdressers. In medicine, help

            Thank you! hi
      3. The comment was deleted.
  3. Alex66
    Alex66 9 November 2021 06: 10
    +3
    The Chechen Republic, known for its harsh antiquated measures, was never able to overcome the high mortality rate. The reasons for this paradox, as well as the extremely high mortality rate in Bashkiria, have not yet been found.
    They are simply stubbornly ignored, tk. they run counter to the official point of view. And these are side effects from the injection to everyone indiscriminately from under the whip.
  4. Alex66
    Alex66 9 November 2021 06: 15
    +10
    Most of our compatriots preferred the strict rules of natural selection to herd immunity.
    There is simply no trust in your own government: the pension reform, the constitution, then vaccinations for life, then for six months, yesterday's "failure", but not in favor of citizens. The Minister of Energy died if he was vaccinated, then the vaccine is not very good, if not vaccinated, then he knows about the side effects and they are probably worse than death.
    1. Plate
      Plate 9 November 2021 09: 06
      -2
      I wonder what the consequences can be worse than death. Hmm ... transforming into a mechanical zombie cyborg that smashes everything indiscriminately?
      1. Ingvar 72
        Ingvar 72 9 November 2021 12: 27
        +5
        Quote: Plate
        Hmm ... transforming into a mechanical zombie cyborg that smashes everything indiscriminately?

        Gunzburg said that he does not yet have data on how his vaccine affects reproductive function in the long term.
        Not an argument to ponder?
        1. Ua3qhp
          Ua3qhp 9 November 2021 12: 46
          +5
          Yeah, especially for those who are 60+
          1. Ingvar 72
            Ingvar 72 9 November 2021 13: 17
            +8
            Quote: Ua3qhp
            Yeah, especially for those who are 60+

            So now they are talking about the need to vaccinate children, have you heard?
            1. Ua3qhp
              Ua3qhp 9 November 2021 16: 22
              0
              I heard, but the rumor appeared long before that ...
              In general, the nastier the rumor, the more readily they believe in it.
              1. Ingvar 72
                Ingvar 72 9 November 2021 16: 47
                +6
                Quote: Ua3qhp
                In general, the nastier the rumor, the more readily they believe in it.

                Once here, the Zaputins were convinced that there would be no forced vaccination, Putin said so. And those who said that everything was heading for this were called conspiracy theorists.
                1. Ua3qhp
                  Ua3qhp 9 November 2021 17: 03
                  -4
                  And it is not forced, as such. We all play in democracy and human rights. Would be truly forced
                  "there is an epidemic in the area, foot and mouth disease! Universal vaccinations" (c) maybe everything would have ended.
                  1. Ingvar 72
                    Ingvar 72 9 November 2021 17: 17
                    +8
                    Quote: Ua3qhp
                    And it is not forced, as such.

                    Segregation, dismissal in production - isn't it, isn't it coercive?
                    And universal vaccination in the open, and not gradually, is a responsibility. But so far we have even unsigned governors' decrees.
                    1. Ua3qhp
                      Ua3qhp 9 November 2021 19: 12
                      0
                      In St. Petersburg, they started openly.
                      1. Ingvar 72
                        Ingvar 72 9 November 2021 19: 22
                        +1
                        Quote: Ua3qhp
                        In St. Petersburg, they started openly.

                        Will you give a link to the rule of law?
                      2. Ua3qhp
                        Ua3qhp 9 November 2021 21: 30
                        0
                        https://yandex.ru/news/story/VSankt-Peterburge_vvedena_obyazatelnaya_vakcinaciya_otCOVID-19_grazhdan_starshe_60_let--a6bba743ab9d0e0c49d46f1b322e6144?lang=ru&from=main_portal&fan=1&stid=XOsYdQjbgTgvqqVa-1sB&t=1636482187&persistent_id=168766297&lr=193&msid=1636482624.34696.85733.4418&mlid=1636482187.glob_225.a6bba743&utm_source=morda_desktop&utm_medium=topnews_news
                      3. Ingvar 72
                        Ingvar 72 9 November 2021 21: 39
                        +5
                        Is this a reference to a rule of law? belay Do you know what this is? This is the Law, a by-law that does not contradict the main law, the Constitution. The decision of the chief sanitary doctor is valid only when the emergency regime is introduced. But only. In the meantime, these are nothing more than loud words, in response to which any pensioner can send on a long walk. Check out the supremacy of laws and conditions when Rospotrebpozor can oblige you by law. Here, as they say, either a cross or cowards. By the way, I personally call for this, for the rule of law. What is the problem to bring the legal framework into conformity?
                      4. Ua3qhp
                        Ua3qhp 10 November 2021 08: 37
                        0
                        I did not understand in which cases the decisions of the chief physician are obligatory for execution, and in which they are of a recommendatory nature.
                        Our government is generally famous for half-hearted solutions with very vague wordings.
                      5. Ingvar 72
                        Ingvar 72 10 November 2021 08: 43
                        +1
                        That is the essence.
              2. Overlock
                Overlock 9 November 2021 20: 50
                +1
                Quote: Ua3qhp
                I heard, but the rumor appeared long before that ...
                In general, the nastier the rumor, the more readily they believe in it.

                I hope you believe in the Vesti program:
                The Korean news agency Yonhap News Agency, citing local authorities, reports that the teenager was vaccinated with the Pfizer vaccine on August 13 and died on September 27. At the same time, the student did not have chronic diseases.
                https://www.vesti.ru/article/2633127
                Do you have children? Are you ready to sacrifice it for the sake of science?
                1. Ua3qhp
                  Ua3qhp 9 November 2021 21: 30
                  0
                  I’m not a schoolboy. Has taken root. And the vaccine is not Pfizer, but Sputnik V.
        2. Oleg Zorin
          Oleg Zorin 9 November 2021 21: 07
          +1
          And how can a vaccine affect reproductive function? In addition to the emasculated adenovirus and pieces of the RNA of the virus, there is nothing in it. How))))?
      2. New Year day
        New Year day 9 November 2021 13: 28
        +4
        Quote: Plate
        what the consequences can be worse than death

        Oddly enough, life, but a disabled person with loss of self-service function, with dysfunction of the pelvic organs or with a frontal psyche
        1. Overlock
          Overlock 9 November 2021 20: 51
          +2
          Quote: Silvestr
          Oddly enough, life, but a disabled person with loss of self-service function, with dysfunction of the pelvic organs or with a frontal psyche

          God forbid, pah-pah
        2. Oleg Zorin
          Oleg Zorin 9 November 2021 21: 09
          +1
          Have you, so-called colleague, already seen such cases in your practice? I haven't seen it yet. And how many millions of doses of the vaccine have been administered?
  5. alone
    alone 9 November 2021 06: 26
    +10
    I believe that there has always been a high mortality rate .. It was simply compensated by migrant waves with the distribution of passports .. As soon as the borders were closed during the pandemic, the problem became obvious.
    1. military_cat
      military_cat 9 November 2021 06: 38
      +3
      Mortality is difficult to hide and difficult to blur in some way, because when a person dies, a large number of bureaucratic procedures are associated with it. These data come with a significant delay, but they can be considered the most accurate. That is why demographers began to look at excess mortality instead of official data on the number of cases, the number of deaths from covid, and so on.
      1. atalef
        atalef 9 November 2021 06: 51
        +3
        Quote: military_cat
        These data come with a significant delay, but they can be considered the most accurate. That is why demographers began to look at excess mortality instead of official data on the number of cases, the number of deaths from covid, and so on.

        You are absolutely right - you can play with the statistics on the number of infected, but the delta of an increase in the average mortality is a fact, and the reason is clear. If it were not for this leap, one could of course talk about conspiracy, but this leap exists and there is no escape from it.
        1. New Year day
          New Year day 9 November 2021 07: 36
          +6
          Quote: atalef
          but the delta of the increase in average mortality is a fact, and the reason is clear.

          Dies in the world from the crown 2%. This is WHO. Somewhere a little more, somewhere a little less. In Russia this figure is 2,7%. And how many die from cancer, heart attack or stroke, or from failure to provide medical care!
          1. atalef
            atalef 9 November 2021 07: 56
            0
            Quote: Silvestr
            Dies in the world from the crown 2%. This is WHO. Somewhere a little more, somewhere a little less. In Russia this figure is 2,7%. And how many die from cancer, heart attack or stroke, or from failure to provide medical care!

            This is understandable, obesity is probably even more, but it's not about if you take the average rate of total mortality over the years, and if there is a jump in a certain year (you understand that other deaths have not disappeared anywhere) then this unexpected increase , logically and refers to the crown.
            1. New Year day
              New Year day 9 November 2021 08: 07
              +14
              Quote: atalef
              then this unexpected increase, logically, refers to the crown.

              Not only. If hospitals are redesigned and a patient with a heart attack or acute appendicitis cannot get to the required hospital in a timely manner and he dies, this is also the crown's fault, although there is managerial insanity and degradation of the healthcare organization. If someone, let's not poke a finger, closed 40% of infectious hospitals and now they are transferred to somatic hospitals, then this is also a crown? Corona showed that optimization = collapse and this cannot be eliminated.
              Tens of thousands of doctors left the profession after optimization - is this also a crown?
              You won't go to the dentist with appendicitis, but for some reason everyone is sure that covid can be treated by a traumatologist or gynecologist request
              1. Snail N9
                Snail N9 9 November 2021 08: 19
                +1
                In Russia, anything is possible, they say that in the last courses even students of veterinary academies were sent to covid boxes.
                1. Alexander Vanichev
                  Alexander Vanichev 9 November 2021 09: 53
                  +10
                  In France, doctors are also sending students to hospitals because of the flight of doctors. Students not only flee hospitals, but also drop out of medical schools. How many doctors will survive the almost 2 year war with covid?
    2. EvilLion
      EvilLion 9 November 2021 08: 10
      -1
      Just teach demography normally, then you may write less nonsense. In Russia there was a very high birth rate in the 80s, and when this generation reached its childbearing age, the birth rate jumped sharply, and even gave an increase at some point. Now children of the 90s have to give birth, but there are few of them, and the birth rate will not be large, and Putin is not to blame for this. And these demographic waves cannot be bypassed in any way, and the increase in the retirement age is precisely because of this, that there are few young people in the 90s, and there is no one to work.
      1. Podvodnik
        Podvodnik 9 November 2021 09: 49
        +7
        Now children of the 90s should give birth, but there are few of them, and the birth rate will not be large, and Putin is not to blame for this


        The reason is not that there are few of them, but that a particular woman does not give birth! Isn't it clear? Stop constantly voicing official excuses from the authorities in their professional incompetence. What does the demographic hole have to do with it if a woman gives birth to one child? What is the pit to blame?

        It is Putin, and the domestic policy of the state, which he has determined for the past 20 years, that is the reason for the low birth rate. If a woman gives birth to less than three children, then there will be no population growth! Moreover, a family with three children is already considered large! Do you know a lot of such people among your friends?

        The chatter about "demographic holes" is an attempt by the authorities to cover up their complete incapacity in this matter. What does the "pit" have to do with it, if a woman has given birth to one child, or has given up motherhood altogether? How will the population grow if there are more women like that? For population growth, it is necessary that the family has at least three
        children. But there are very few of them. That is why we
        and die out.
        1. flicker
          flicker 9 November 2021 13: 14
          0
          It is Putin, and the domestic policy of the state, which he has determined for the past 20 years, that is the reason for the low birth rate.
          China, India, the Muslim countries of North Africa and the Middle East will help you on the one hand. Italy, Spain and other EU countries on the other side
      2. Stas157
        Stas157 9 November 2021 09: 53
        +6
        Quote: EvilLion
        и it's not Putin's fault

        Yes Yes. Is he at least to blame for something? Or drove by?
        1. Svarog
          Svarog 9 November 2021 10: 31
          0
          Quote: Stas157
          Quote: EvilLion
          и it's not Putin's fault

          Yes Yes. Is he at least to blame for something? Or drove by?

          In France, he would have been imprisoned .. he had done so much ..
          1. Stas157
            Stas157 9 November 2021 10: 40
            +9
            Quote: Svarog
            In France he would be jailed.. I've done so much ..

            hi The Tsar knew what he was talking about when he argued that we do not want, as in France!))

            I think that he wants to be like in a banana republic - a dictator all his life. And in order not to kick the populace throws expenses from medicine to the Russian Guard.
      3. Vadim237
        Vadim237 9 November 2021 22: 05
        -4
        Raising the retirement age is a worldwide trend towards it, and China has approached the same retirement age will be raised there.
    3. Oleg Zorin
      Oleg Zorin 9 November 2021 21: 11
      0
      How can mortality (which is counted according to death certificates issued by the registry office) be masked by the distribution of passports to migrants? You just explain to me the train of your thoughts, I am interested to understand
  6. Serg Kam
    Serg Kam 9 November 2021 06: 44
    +3
    If you do not know about the coronavirus cause of such mortality, you might think that Russia has entered the bloodiest war.

    In the event of war, life expectancy would have dropped to at least 65 years, as in 2002.
    And at this stage
    life expectancy decreased from 73,34 to 71,5 years
    by only 1,84 years.
    That says about the mass death of the elderly.
  7. nickolai.maliugin
    nickolai.maliugin 9 November 2021 06: 56
    +1
    What changes do we need so that when a person dies, we can calmly say - "He died of old age." Probably, medicine should develop along with weapons. They will say that there is not enough money. Is there enough for offshore? How much money was taken from the country, we can only guess. And how much is there a desire to take away? Instead, they cut health care costs. If society is new, there must be revolutionary changes, otherwise ....
  8. Product8
    Product8 9 November 2021 06: 57
    -2
    On November 1, I met tmkie data.
  9. The comment was deleted.
  10. The comment was deleted.
  11. NDR-791
    NDR-791 9 November 2021 07: 09
    +2
    Most of our compatriots preferred the strict rules of natural selection to herd immunity. About, what this may eventually lead to, you can read from Uncle Darwin.
    An interesting interpretation. Lead to a new species? Humana virus?
    1. Dmitry Ivanov_8
      Dmitry Ivanov_8 9 November 2021 08: 10
      +6
      Don't exaggerate. In 1918-1920, the "Spaniard" claimed, according to some estimates, up to 100 million lives. In the middle of the 20th century, it returned again as a normal H1N1 flu strain. Conclusion: the selection of Darwin's grandfather worked. Just like in the 14th century during the plague pandemic in Eurasia.
    2. ivan2022
      ivan2022 9 November 2021 08: 52
      +8
      Quote: NDR-791
      An interesting interpretation. Lead to a new species? Humana virus?


      M. Gorky "On the Russian peasantry" (1922); "I asked active participants in the civil war: do they feel some awkwardness killing each other? No, they do not."
      Social Darwinism, traditionally and firmly dominating the minds of compatriots, does not lead to the emergence of a new species, but to the liberation of the Earth. From a society that "stubbornly-unshakably" professes this religion. This is precisely our true hidden secret faith, not Christianity and not communism and not capitalism. She will lead the people to the result that society has deserved "according to its faith."

      Heh ... heh ... there was a favorite such anecdote of "Reagan's grandfather": There are two Russian soldiers with guns. One saw a man on the street and shouted "curfew!" The man ran ... The soldier shot and killed him.
      Another asks "Why did he kill? After all, the curfew has not yet arrived" - So it was my friend. I know where his home is. He still wouldn't have made it home before curfew. "

      The people have no evil in their souls - they are "kind", only with such convictions. How many times have I seen ... our people will do anything ... easily and out of conviction, and not out of malice. This is "the secret of his soul." The most terrifying thing to deal with in life.
  12. The comment was deleted.
  13. New Year day
    New Year day 9 November 2021 07: 31
    +14
    ... Despite all the admonitions of skeptics, medical care for Russians has improved in recent years.

    After reading this nonsense, you can not read further.
    Apparently the author has forgotten Putin's assessment - "Catastrophe". In addition, a simple question arises: if there are not enough doctors in general and doctors in particular in Russia everywhere, then who provides all the "quality of medicine that improves scores"? - Obviously Gabyshev and others like him.
    Medicine has collapsed, this is already an obvious fact and excess mortality by the end of the year will reach a million - this is also an obvious fact. There are many assessments of the level of development of healthcare, including the level of excess mortality. They love to compare us with Israel, so the level of healthcare in Moscow is several times lower than the level of healthcare in Israel, and the level of development of healthcare in Russia is several times lower than the level of healthcare in Moscow. All excess lethality - this evidence was handed out by health care.
    1. Grandfather
      Grandfather 9 November 2021 07: 41
      +5
      everyone should be injected!
      The Governor of the Khanty-Mansi Autonomous Okrug Natalya Komarova said that: "Personally, I did six vaccinations. I participate in an experiment, a study. I put on Sputnik V. So far, nothing has grown. I think everything will be fine."

      Earlier, Zhirinovsky said that he had also been vaccinated against coronavirus six times.
      yes
      by
      1. New Year day
        New Year day 9 November 2021 07: 47
        -2
        Quote: Dead Day
        everyone should be injected!
        The Governor of the Khanty-Mansi Autonomous Okrug Natalya Komarova said that: "Personally, I did six vaccinations. I participate in an experiment, a study. I put on Sputnik V. So far, nothing has grown. I think everything will be fine."

        Earlier, Zhirinovsky said that he had also been vaccinated against coronavirus six times.
        yes
        by

        laughing request
        1. Grandfather
          Grandfather 9 November 2021 07: 48
          +2
          such a madhouse ... wassat hi
          1. Snail N9
            Snail N9 9 November 2021 08: 23
            +2
            For the sake of hype, I can say that I injected 10 times and who will check? Does she have 6 QR codes? Or is it such a top-down order: all members of the United Russia inject and inject drugs like the expiration date of the vaccine ends, and the population ignores vaccination?
            1. Svarog
              Svarog 9 November 2021 10: 46
              +6
              Quote: Snail N9
              For the sake of hype, I can say that I injected 10 times and who will check?

              Injections will already be once in half a year .. while this topic will make a profit, injections under various pretexts will continue .. and 10 times is not the limit ...
    2. Svarog
      Svarog 9 November 2021 10: 35
      +4
      Quote: Silvestr
      All excess lethality - this evidence was handed out by health care.

      Here the other day I watched an interview with Maxim .. a singer such .. which was barely pumped out. So, she admitted that in the beginning it was not correct to treat them ... the doctors themselves admitted it.
  14. anclevalico
    anclevalico 9 November 2021 07: 41
    0
    What's the point in bare numbers? Now, if we were told how many died from covid were vaccinated, and how many fell ill again, having natural immunity, there would be a completely different analysis of the situation. But, since this data is hidden or not recorded, which is even worse, then everything is really bad.
    1. Victor Tsenin
      Victor Tsenin 9 November 2021 08: 11
      0
      One covidarium - about 90% of applicants are allegedly vaccinated, after a more detailed analysis, more than 50% of the certificates were purchased. Here you just need to understand that vaccination really makes it easier for many, and if there is no disgust, then it is worth getting vaccinated.
      This information is particular, but indicative.
      1. Snail N9
        Snail N9 9 November 2021 08: 31
        -2
        Go buy a certificate. Then tell us how you can do it. Bought certificates, yeah.
        1. Victor Tsenin
          Victor Tsenin 9 November 2021 08: 50
          -4
          Thanks for the offer, I don't need it, everything is ok. Representatives of the shadow business, to whom I have nothing to do, will tell you.
          1. Snail N9
            Snail N9 9 November 2021 09: 13
            +6
            Exactly. It's like covid deaths. At work, people and their relatives were sick, some passed for covid, some did not pass, but they believe that it was covid, thank God no one died with them. Some have been vaccinated, some have not. And now we are going home, at the end of the working day, discussing coronavirus, one type of colleague comes in who has pierced himself and the whole family, etc. they say someone died there and here among relatives and friends. One of my friends, his wife works as a small boss in the social security department, he says, “Give the names of those who died with you, I will ask my wife to check the database of the dead.” The dude immediately stopped, looked at us with tower eyes and slammed the door. wink
            1. Victor Tsenin
              Victor Tsenin 9 November 2021 09: 34
              -2
              Well, you know, several of my acquaintances have died, incl. highly respected, which made me very sad. If I was somewhat inaccurately understood, I am neither a vaccine nor an anti-vaccine, but I often work in the red zones, I know situations from the inside and in contact with specialists in these institutions. I repeat, if there is no confidence in immunity and are not afraid of vaccinations, it is worth it. Insinuations are inappropriate here.
              1. Ingvar 72
                Ingvar 72 9 November 2021 12: 39
                +2
                Quote: Victor Tsenin
                Well, you know, several of my acquaintances have died, incl. highly respected, which made me very sad

                One of my personal acquaintances, a neighbor who had an oncology, and she was on chemistry, and the head of a section in a neighboring workshop, with diabetes mellitus, died.
                1. Victor Tsenin
                  Victor Tsenin 9 November 2021 12: 47
                  +1
                  I have a vaccinated grandfather, together with a vaccinated friend, both transferred 83 years at the "ARVI level". When I came home for lunch, after our morning dialogue, I learned that an unvaccinated friend of my grandmother, 82 years old, had died in the morning in a covidarium. This is not counting third parties. Just as food for thought.
                  1. Ingvar 72
                    Ingvar 72 9 November 2021 13: 18
                    +2
                    Quote: Victor Tsenin

                    I have a vaccinated grandfather, together with a vaccinated friend, both transferred 83 years at the "ARVI level"

                    I also know those unvaccinated. request
                    So not an indicator.
                    1. Victor Tsenin
                      Victor Tsenin 9 November 2021 13: 31
                      +1
                      I also know such people, but I disagree in the sense that, as discussed above, vaccination, if there is a doubt about immunity, therefore, these people have order. But prevention, of course, is still needed: turmeric, in chavanprash or separately, vitamins, dihydroquercetin, vitamins and much more.

                      Well, okay, it's time to finish, otherwise we have already arranged a chat here)
                      1. Ingvar 72
                        Ingvar 72 9 November 2021 13: 37
                        +2
                        Quote: Victor Tsenin
                        vaccination - in case of doubt about immunity,

                        Namely, and only on the principle of voluntariness.
                      2. Overlock
                        Overlock 9 November 2021 20: 55
                        +3
                        Quote: Ingvar 72
                        Namely, and only on the principle of voluntariness.

                        So after all, our Putin says so, only voluntarily! Who perpetrated the lawlessness in the country? It looks like the boyars are obnoxious
          2. New Year day
            New Year day 9 November 2021 13: 57
            +3
            Quote: Victor Tsenin
            I don't need it, everything is ok.

            And I thought you were in the subject, such a conviction
            Quote: Victor Tsenin
            One covidarium - about 90% of applicants are allegedly vaccinated, after a more detailed analysis, more than 50% of the certificates were purchased.

            Cite the source, Gunzburg, as an interested person, do not cite
        2. Nastia makarova
          Nastia makarova 9 November 2021 12: 39
          -4
          really sell freely
          1. New Year day
            New Year day 9 November 2021 13: 57
            0
            Quote: Nastia Makarova
            really free

            Discard address
            1. Nastia makarova
              Nastia makarova 9 November 2021 14: 25
              -1
              in most clinics, especially in small towns
              1. New Year day
                New Year day 9 November 2021 14: 33
                +1
                Quote: Nastia Makarova
                in most polyclinics, especially in small

                My address is not a house or a street, my address is ...
                It is precisely in such clinics that this is impossible:
                1.everything is in plain sight and it is impossible to hide the unlawful action from the UK and the administration
                2. In this case, the city will simply die out, because the majority are not vaccinated, right?
                1. Nastia makarova
                  Nastia makarova 9 November 2021 15: 21
                  -1
                  do you want an address? who will give it to you so as not to shine)))) there is the administration itself in the share
                  1. Overlock
                    Overlock 9 November 2021 20: 56
                    +1
                    Quote: Nastia Makarova
                    there the administration itself has a share

                    Do you want to say that the administration of the city of Sochi is committing a crime?
                    1. Nastia makarova
                      Nastia makarova 10 November 2021 07: 30
                      0
                      I'm talking about the administration of polyclinics, including private ones
      2. Svarog
        Svarog 9 November 2021 10: 50
        +2
        Quote: Victor Tsenin
        more than 50% of the certificates have been purchased.

        What are you talking about? I tried to buy..fuck there. Try it and then carry it. In fact, 5% may buy .. however, what the vaccinated tolerate is nonsense, the same as herd immunity and the same as the fact that after vaccination do not wake up at all .. This was all said before, those who are now chicken codes entered .. what no? Leonov, the cosmonaut, had his wife died ... was vaccinated ... and there are a lot of such cases ...
        1. Victor Tsenin
          Victor Tsenin 9 November 2021 10: 59
          -1
          I do not carry, but write the facts known to me. I will not try illegal, meaningless actions, do not persuade.
          Read what herd immunity is, how it is formed during pandemics and why it is needed, so as not to be embarrassed by ignorance.

          I expressed myself as much as possible about vaccinations, I do not know that you did not understand here either.
          1. Svarog
            Svarog 9 November 2021 11: 07
            +1
            Quote: Victor Tsenin
            I do not carry, but write the facts known to me.

            How do you know? Ginsburg said? Fact means the truth .. And Ginzburg earlier said that after vaccination, do not get sick with covid in general .. and even later said that there would be no severe cases, and then about herd immunity .. So here is the fact or truth alone - these are people who lie, in order to make money.
            Read what herd immunity is, how it is formed during pandemics and why it is needed, so as not to be embarrassed by ignorance.

            You need to read this .. and see the statistics by country .. something in Israel did not work ..
            1. Victor Tsenin
              Victor Tsenin 9 November 2021 11: 15
              +2
              Known from what I described above.
              The initial messages you are writing about were based on a semi-understanding of this RNA virus. Are you stuck with 2020 information, I suppose?
              What I need, I myself know and operate with facts, not chatter, not gossip and other nonsense of all kinds.
              1. Svarog
                Svarog 9 November 2021 11: 31
                +2
                Quote: Victor Tsenin
                The initial messages you are writing about were based on a semi-understanding of this RNA virus. Are you stuck with 2020 information, I suppose?

                In 2020, they did not inject .. and the mortality rate was significantly lower .. You will now say that a mutation .. a new strain .. So the strains will appear in the future .. And how can you tell this in the future? That's curious .. In half a year, a new strain will appear all vaccinated and bam again wave .. inject again? Of course ... it's so profitable ..
                What I need, I myself know and operate with facts, not chatter, gossip and other nonsense of all kinds

                So give me the source of your facts ... I asked earlier .. Only those who have not supposedly figured it out yet, do not bring .. Ginzburg is the voice of the pharmaceutical companies.
                1. Victor Tsenin
                  Victor Tsenin 9 November 2021 12: 13
                  -1
                  Well, why not prick, prick, in the experimental stage, but a lot. You see, you have an opinion about the false dependence of the number of cases on the number of vaccinations. The virus works in a spiral, i.e. the more sick people there are, the more there are, do you understand? There is no point in mentioning strains, mutation = evolution.
                  Those. the pandemic lasts until almost everyone is sick, vaccines only increase the chance of survival for people with ambiguous immunity, as I reported above. And this is when everyone is adapted, herd immunity.

                  I have already reported my sources, you did not bother to read, if you are about the names of my friends doctors, epidemiologists, do not blame me, but they will remain in my brain.

                  I will add that if you again insist on a point of view incomprehensible to me, you want to pour the empty, then we are finished)
                  1. Glory1974
                    Glory1974 9 November 2021 12: 42
                    +1
                    The virus works in a spiral, i.e. the more sick people there are, the more there are, do you understand?

                    I do not understand anything. The more cases, the more who?
                    If the virus is fatal, the host dies along with the virus. As a result, a non-lethal strain remains, people stop dying, the epidemic fades away. This is how all epidemics on the planet went.
                    In the case of coronavirus, the opposite is true. At first there was a non-lethal strain, no more dangerous than the flu, and suddenly it became drastically lethal. Why was the logic of the epidemic violated?
                    1. Victor Tsenin
                      Victor Tsenin 9 November 2021 12: 53
                      +2
                      If you take SARS-CoV and MERS-CoV, then they are much more deadly than the current covid. With viruses, this logic is not entirely suitable, because hundreds of thousands a year die from the same flu, but since adaptation in the form of herd immunity takes place, then everything is tolerable.
                      1. Glory1974
                        Glory1974 9 November 2021 13: 10
                        +3
                        They die from the flu, but it does not turn into a pandemic. Even the epidemic threshold is not always crossed. And here's a pandemic. Australia's coronavirus restrictions were imposed last year for up to 5 years! What do Australians know about the virus that we don’t know? Why are restrictions imposed in our country for a week or two, under exhortations that everyone will get vaccinated, get sick, get collective immunity, but there is no sense?
                      2. Victor Tsenin
                        Victor Tsenin 9 November 2021 13: 14
                        +2
                        It does not pass, because we have already passed that pandemic in the form of a Spanish flu.
                        We have, in my opinion, more than half a measure, well, conditionally in your city everyone is wearing masks in different types of transport?
                        I agree, this is for a long time, until full adaptation, but one way or another, the covid will remain with us forever, just not in the form of a pandemic, over time.
                      3. Vadim237
                        Vadim237 9 November 2021 22: 11
                        -2
                        Only the flu does not cause thrombosis with such a high probability as covid and from 2 to 10% of cases do not die from flu, and flu is several times less infectious than covid and does not lead to long-term consequences for the body as often as covid.
                      4. Victor Tsenin
                        Victor Tsenin 9 November 2021 22: 13
                        +1
                        You noted quite rightly, but it is clear that these are completely different viruses, I see no reason for a specific comparison, only in the key of the pandemic's problems, which is similar in any case.

                        And, let's clarify a little, it is not a virus that causes thrombosis, but a thrombosis-consequence, therefore, I specifically mentioned Dehydroquercetin. Those. one mom and one dad of my colleagues died within a month, although they knew about the remedy, when asked why they did not use it, silence and wet eyes, for obvious reasons, did not penetrate into the brain to find out, we are all human, one way or another.
                    2. Snail N9
                      Snail N9 9 November 2021 14: 26
                      0
                      Maybe because this virus is a "chimera", an artificial development, which is why it does not behave "logically"?
                      1. Victor Tsenin
                        Victor Tsenin 9 November 2021 22: 09
                        0
                        Maybe so, so far, unfortunately, we do not know this, but we will certainly find out, everything secret becomes clear, one way or another.
          2. New Year day
            New Year day 9 November 2021 13: 58
            -1
            Quote: Victor Tsenin
            I do not carry, but I write the facts known to me

            Sorry, but you are balabol
            1. Victor Tsenin
              Victor Tsenin 9 November 2021 22: 08
              0
              A biased statement, you absolutely do not know me, as, obviously, you do not want to understand the simple words set forth above. I will not answer in the same way, peace and quiet.
          3. Overlock
            Overlock 9 November 2021 21: 11
            0
            Quote: Victor Tsenin
            Read what herd immunity is, how it is formed during pandemics and why it is needed, so as not to be embarrassed by ignorance.

            We read it. Your assessment of outbreaks in countries with herd immunity.
            Hans Kluge, Director of the European Bureau of the World Health Organization: “Over the past four weeks in Europe, the number of new cases of COVID-19 has increased by more than 55%. Last week, the European Region and Central Asia accounted for 59% of all COVID-19 cases worldwide and 48% of reported deaths. Overall, the European region has more cases (78 million) than Southeast Asia, the Eastern Mediterranean, the Western Pacific and Africa combined. We're back at the epicenter. "
            What is wrong with herd immunity, or is it not at all in business?
            1. Victor Tsenin
              Victor Tsenin 9 November 2021 22: 11
              0
              I do not have an assessment of countries with herd immunity, because it has not been achieved, what could be the reasoning here?)
              1. New Year day
                New Year day 10 November 2021 12: 44
                0
                Quote: Victor Tsenin
                because it is not reached

                How is that? How much do you need to vaccinate to achieve it? 100% will not be in any case and in any country
                1. Victor Tsenin
                  Victor Tsenin 10 November 2021 13: 22
                  0
                  How much is needed for a long time already sounded by competent specialists, you, I'm sure, have heard and read about it, I see no reason to repeat.
      3. Ingvar 72
        Ingvar 72 9 November 2021 12: 31
        0
        Quote: Victor Tsenin
        after a more detailed analysis, more than 50% of the certificates were purchased.

        How was the analysis carried out? How do you imagine it? By poll, on parole?
        1. Victor Tsenin
          Victor Tsenin 9 November 2021 12: 44
          +1
          Everything is simple - the number of antibodies / the duration of the vaccination, taking into account the certain belated formation of the above in some citizens. Formulas and proportions in general are known for 2021, nothing fancy.
          1. Ingvar 72
            Ingvar 72 9 November 2021 13: 16
            +2
            Quote: Victor Tsenin
            Everything is simple - the number of antibodies / duration of vaccination, taking into account

            Do you know that during an illness a person has such a cocktail of antibodies in their blood that it is simply not realistic to calculate those that appeared from vaccination?
            1. Victor Tsenin
              Victor Tsenin 9 November 2021 13: 27
              +1
              Specialists believe that it is more or less real, by type and other nuances. For this I will not argue, they know better, I have no reason to doubt the professionalism of our doctors.
              1. Ingvar 72
                Ingvar 72 9 November 2021 13: 36
                +4
                Quote: Victor Tsenin
                I have no reason to doubt the professionalism of our doctors.

                Let me tell you one case. Several years ago, I flew into a tree on a cheesecake and ended up in traumatology. A week after the "therapy" of painkillers, I asked the head of the department during the round, can I still get diclofenac injected? He was very surprised and asked, "Don't you get injected?"
                I mean, only a complete optimist will be able to fully rely on doctors in an optimized medicine. Or an eccentric, sorry of course.
                1. Victor Tsenin
                  Victor Tsenin 9 November 2021 22: 25
                  -1
                  Who are we comparing with whom - a cheesecake with a virus or a specialist with a poor student? Isn't it funny?)
                  1. Ingvar 72
                    Ingvar 72 10 November 2021 08: 31
                    +1
                    Quote: Victor Tsenin
                    We compare whom with whom -

                    Talk in general about the quality of medicine, and the professionalism of doctors in the current reality.
                    1. Victor Tsenin
                      Victor Tsenin 10 November 2021 09: 22
                      -1
                      Overall, the quality and professionalism are satisfactory. Doctors are now working hard, I love and respect them. Well, we sort of discussed everything, so.
              2. New Year day
                New Year day 9 November 2021 13: 59
                +2
                Quote: Victor Tsenin
                I have no reason to doubt the professionalism of our doctors.

                In vain! Just in the hospital you have to think. As a doctor, I tell you this. Even VHI may not help
                1. Victor Tsenin
                  Victor Tsenin 9 November 2021 22: 24
                  0
                  I have a habit of thinking everywhere, I don't know what kind of doctor you are, but my friends doctors in many areas are excellent specialists and I trust them, not you.
                  1. New Year day
                    New Year day 10 November 2021 12: 45
                    0
                    Quote: Victor Tsenin
                    and I trust them, not you.

                    to health!
  15. Daniil Konovalenko
    Daniil Konovalenko 9 November 2021 07: 52
    +2
    We must grow up to a hundred years without old age (c), judging by the optimism of the article, we must wait for the next increase in the retirement age.
  16. ban
    ban 9 November 2021 08: 06
    +3
    Despite all the admonitions of skeptics, medical care for Russians has improved in recent years


    After this phrase, it is immediately clear who the author is, you can not read further
    1. EvilLion
      EvilLion 9 November 2021 08: 15
      -8
      Considering that the Russians have enough money to grow honey like mushrooms after rain. centers, and they go to budget hospitals, your irony is absolutely inappropriate.
      1. ban
        ban 9 November 2021 11: 53
        +4
        I hesitate to ask, have you been to a budget hospital for a long time?
        I'd rather die in peace
  17. tatra
    tatra 9 November 2021 08: 08
    -3
    After the seizure of the RSFSR by the enemies of the Communists, who so diligently pretend to be "great philanthropists", "concern for the preservation of the people" in their slander of the Bolshevik Communists, the supermortality rate of the Russian, especially the Russian people, amounted to more than 16 million people, this is more than the Nazis killed citizens of the RSFSR.
    But the enemies of the communists, as always, "have nothing to do with it", they have "and this was in the USSR, we still disentangle it", and they got a bad little people, only drunkards.
  18. EvilLion
    EvilLion 9 November 2021 08: 13
    -2
    Well, if instead of vaccinations, you engage in nonsense and replicate fairy tales, driving around Turkey, then, of course, the virus will not wait, it mutates, and immunity from vaccinations is not eternal. Receive and sign. And if you die, or one of your relatives, then you should only blame yourself. With all questions to the authorities, this does not negate your personal stupidity and irresponsibility.
  19. Adagka
    Adagka 9 November 2021 08: 26
    +1
    Well, what are you going to do, again the irresponsible people are to blame, do you understand, despite the heroic efforts of the optimizers who have ignited this unworthy people with the unprecedented philanthropy of the optimizers of everything they can reach)))
  20. Carib
    Carib 9 November 2021 08: 28
    +10
    "Despite all the admonitions of skeptics, medical care for Russians has improved in recent years."
    Not true. People began to learn to live and be treated without doctors. Do not get sick, so as not to be treated, and is not wasted. How to survive somehow. Pull to the last. In official hospitals, even in cities with a population of over one million, it takes 2-3 months for a specialist to see a doctor (one earworm takes 200 people to a district, and he also has sick leave, isolation), and before that, a week to see a therapist so that he can see a specialist, because site to the Doctor FICTION. Therefore, they do not believe the state with the most powerful media, because they shout that everything is fine with medicine, but it is good if patients are not allowed to see it, they are not seen. And paid medicine, learned to cheat at a high price and also not to treat !!! They are created to milk and not to heal !!! Or so it looks from the side of a non-wealthy population.
    1. Waterways 672
      Waterways 672 9 November 2021 09: 01
      +5
      Quote: Carib
      People began to learn to live and be treated without doctors. Do not get sick, so as not to be treated, and is not wasted.

      We all have the right to free medicine, for this plantain grows everywhere along the roads.
  21. YOUR.
    YOUR. 9 November 2021 09: 12
    +2
    From personal observations.
    During the period from January 2020 to the present, 19 people with a confirmed diagnosis of coronavirus, whom I knew personally, have died. The average age of the deceased is 60 years (+/- 5 years). The youngest is 41, the oldest is 75. Of these, 2 are women, the rest are men. Not from the "crown" 3 people died, and their age is less.
    1. Snail N9
      Snail N9 9 November 2021 09: 36
      0
      Anecdote (if, what):
      "Doctor! In the waiting room, the patient has a firearm and two stabbers! Where is he?"
      "How where? To the Kovidniki ..."
      "But he is covered in blood and he has a firearm and two stabbers!"
      "Darling, do you want to lose money allocated by the state to our hospital and you personally for the treatment of KVIDs and deal with the police? No? Take them to Kovidniks."
      "What if he dies?"
      "And if he dies, then we will write down that he died from covid, with concomitant diseases."
      Not funny, actually ...
  22. The comment was deleted.
  23. The comment was deleted.
    1. Svarog
      Svarog 9 November 2021 11: 59
      +2
      And now they are simply scared that if it goes on like this, their descendants will not have a country.

      They have prepared, they will bring migrant workers in wagons ... so they think they will bring more from Afghanistan ...
  24. alexey1213
    alexey1213 9 November 2021 09: 43
    +4
    Stop paying doctors for covid patients and immediately morbidity and mortality will go down. And low mortality with a large percentage of vaccinated countries is most likely an indicator of the level of honey. In general, where medicine is better there and mortality is lower.
    1. flicker
      flicker 9 November 2021 13: 04
      +6
      Stop paying doctors for sick patients
      Doctors should not be touched, especially since they either do not see this money, or see in a greatly reduced amount. There seem to be those who "need" this money.
  25. Whowhy
    Whowhy 9 November 2021 10: 22
    +9
    "However, there is still an assumption" that the increase in the mortality rate is associated precisely with the mass vaccination during the epidemic. Why is the epidemic, despite massive vaccinations around the world, not only not decreasing, but growing?
    And the fact is that when vaccinating an already infected person (and no matter how you check, there will be hundreds of thousands of them during an epidemic), the virus begins to mutate, often turning into a more virulent (infectious) and more pathogenic form. What we are now witnessing with bitterness is the notorious "delta". By the way, it became known back in the 60s of the last century, and vaccination during the flu epidemic was prohibited in the USSR. And the official version now says that, they say, this covid is like that, you know, a fan of mutations turned out to be ...
    In addition, the vaccinated still get infected and get sick and, as people say now: "die in a milder form."
    So, experiencing a lighter sympotomatics, people who fell ill after vaccination, instead of staying at home, go to work, go shopping and other public places, spreading an infection, often already mutated, for which the previous vaccines are already like vitamins ...
    1. Cat Kuzya
      Cat Kuzya 9 November 2021 10: 51
      +9
      Unfortunately, you are right and this is the result of coronavirus that has swept through many countries and Russia. Such harmful actions are the result of systematic reverse segregation in the professional sense, when real professionals and sober-minded people were squeezed out and replaced by throat-throats, populists, careerists and “devoted people.” These people are not capable of correctly assessing the situation, they are not able to listen to professional opinions , albeit impartial, are not able to make sober decisions, are subject to emotions and are not able to admit mistakes and correct them. I'm wondering why our media generally bypass the situation with the coronavirus in Sweden?
      1. Svarog
        Svarog 9 November 2021 11: 04
        +3
        Quote: Kuzya the Cat
        I'm wondering why our media generally bypass the situation with the coronavirus in Sweden?

        Sweden is a small country and there the pharmaceutical industry does not make much money .. And we have where to roam. Here the answer is one-loot and control of the masses. For some reason, no one is particularly interested in alcoholism, drug addiction, oncology ... yes, a lot of diseases, where mortality is higher .. But with covid they took great care of their health .. it does not seem strange .. they carried out a pension reform and at least that .. and then their mortality excited. Why isn't alcohol banned? More people die from him.
        1. Vadim237
          Vadim237 9 November 2021 22: 27
          -2
          Why isn't alcohol banned? More than 10000 people die from it from covid .. - In Russia, a little more than 300000 people die from alcohol poisoning a year - more than XNUMX people died from the effects of covid last year. Here the answer is one-loot and control of the masses. Covid, like all restrictive ones associated with it, harm all business in Russia and other countries - a decrease in population also negatively affects business, the fewer consumers, the less profit. And mass control without covid was perfectly implemented by the same tracking cameras of the neural network of the face recognition system, the same QR codes and everything else.
          1. Svarog
            Svarog 9 November 2021 22: 56
            -1
            In Russia, a little more than 10000 people die from alcohol poisoning a year - more than 300000 died from the effects of covid last year.This year, covid bypassed cancer in mortality, and significantly.

            You are here about alcohol poisoning ... and then about the consequences of covid .. why did you forget about the consequences of alcohol .. in addition to poisoning? Accidents, accidents, stabbing and so on .. plus. But with alcohol, no one will unleash the same struggle ..- it is not profitable. And with covid it is beneficial.
            And then, where does the number come from 300? The diagnosis of covid is now profitable to make ... they pay extra for it ..
            Interestingly, a patient with oncology who died of covid .. how is his death recorded .. covid \ or oncology? Given that if covid..that plus 200 r?
            Covid, like all restrictive ones associated with it, harm all business in Russia and other countries - a decrease in population also negatively affects business, the fewer consumers, the less profit.

            You think in the "old" capitalist paradigms ... the world is changing rapidly.
            And they suffer from covid, only small business ... but corporations are getting fat before our eyes ... and billionaires breed like rabbits and only increase their fortune ... And the population is decreasing due to pensioners and poor health of people ... which is again profitable, because pensions are paid no need ..
            And mass control without covid was perfectly implemented by the same tracking cameras of the neural network of the face recognition system, the same QR codes and everything else.

            By control, I mean not only recognition ... control of an individual's life occurs, he is trained, deprived of his rights, driven into a stall.
            1. Vadim237
              Vadim237 10 November 2021 21: 52
              -1
              And only small business suffers from covid ... but corporations are getting fat before our eyes ... and billionaires breed like rabbits and only increase their fortune. They, if the same go bankrupt and are absorbed like large companies, billionaires like rabbits do not breed them in the world, several hundred out of 7 billion people and their fortune grows in crises and a pandemic due to the fact that numerous investors begin to invest in their business who withdraw their funds from risk assets transferring them to less risky income for a given period - and this is not money in the pocket of billionaires that you can use at your discretion, those who invest in them are waiting for payback and profit.
              And the population is decreasing due to pensioners and poor health of people .. which is again profitable, because pensions do not need to be paid .. And in place of them demand goes away, since pensioners also consume all goods and services from small private owners to corporations.
              "By control, I mean not only recognition ... control of an individual's life occurs, he is trained, deprived of his rights, driven into a stall." Who is being driven whom and where? Everyone is free like birds in their actions and decisions.
              And then, where is the number from 300? The diagnosis of covid is now profitable to put .. they pay extra for it .. from the statistics office and yes, what should be paid extra for the net does not reach the recipient.
        2. moscowp
          moscowp 11 November 2021 12: 41
          0
          What about Sweden? There, everyone was vaccinated quickly, in the world leaders in vaccination, more than 70% as far as I remember
    2. Whowhy
      Whowhy 10 November 2021 16: 39
      0
      And here is a very fresh confirmation:
      http://worldcrisis.ru/crisis/3949223?utm_source=subscr&utm_medium=mail&utm_campaign=best
  26. BAI
    BAI 9 November 2021 10: 58
    +9
    In a pandemic, citizens not only die faster, but also hesitate to have children. In terms of this demographic parameter, Russia returned to its 2002 position.

    The main reason for the decline in the birth rate is the fall in real income, i.e. poverty of the population. A child is an expensive pleasure, many are beyond their means.
  27. Anatoly Orlov_2
    Anatoly Orlov_2 9 November 2021 11: 12
    +8
    Sometimes we do not notice the little things when we are in a hurry for miracles ...
    At the beginning of 2018, the so-called optimization in the healthcare sector began in Russia. The bottom line is one - to reduce health care costs.
    From the beginning, the buildings of hospitals and polyclinics were not repaired. Reduced purchases of medical equipment, instruments, medicines, under sly reasons, to buy domestic. The idea seems to be a good one, but nothing has been done in this direction.
    Only that which gave a quick income has survived. Medicine in Russia has become a service provider, not a treatment for citizens.
    Go to any clinic, the people are abyss (and both healthy and sick in the same queue), and there are very few doctors. And they usually work simultaneously in different places at once. (The consequences of optimization are on the face. They were hired with work experience of at least 5 years. But where will young graduates of medical universities have it from? As a result, old people work who do not have the skill that young people have. And old people do not need stimulation (and it is not).
    All patients are now being taken to one central hospital or its branches, while others are closed as unprofitable ... The officials thought that the epidemics remained only in the past history ... And she came, as always, not expected and in a different guise. They did not talk about her, and they did not teach students to her. And the cautious remarks of old people - teachers - were ignored or sent to retirement ... The result of such "optimization" is obvious!
    The hospitals are full of patients, there are no necessary medicines, none of the doctors knows anything about the new "epidemic" !!!
    It is good that the archives have preserved the formulas of old Soviet vaccines that have not been tested or that have not passed the test. Here they are "treating" us poor fellow patients!
    And where are the new vaccines !? They will not be 5 years old! They use old stuff with new labels.
    From here the supermortality rate and the growth of the disease ... Just at the time of the population census in Russia!
    It is an accident? I don't think so!
  28. flicker
    flicker 9 November 2021 11: 27
    +11
    Statistics are manipulated.
    ---
    Can't View Covid-19 solely as a medical problem.
    ---
    Covid has noticeably changed the way of life around the world. This means that Covid can and should be considered as a universal tool for reformatting world politics (much better than the same terrorists).
    Accordingly, Covid-19 geopolitical tool to reformat the world order.
    And those in whose hands this tool will not allow you to solve the medical problem of Covid.
    And pharmaceutical companies are not in their hands?
    -
    The Covid vaccine brings fabulous profits to those who produce it. That is, Covid can and should be considered as commercially profitable factor.
    Those in whose hands the pharmaceutical companies producing vaccines are not interested in solving the medical problem of Covid. As it was sung: this music will be eternal if I change the batteries (read: endless revaccination). Moreover, many medical doctors and heads of regions will help them in this.

    We are already receiving two strata of influential people who are not interested in solving the medical problem of Covid. This cannot be ignored.
    -----
    And finally, a medical problem.
    All conversations about how many and in what year died are useless if the main answer is not received: does vaccination against coronavirus save or not?
    Practice shows that vaccination is not effective against coronavirus (I would not be surprised if it turns out that it is completely harmful, especially since October data from Taiwan revealed that there were more deaths from vaccinations than from coronavirus.
    -
    Moreover, already the creators of vaccines admit that they are not effective against the Delta strain. And all because MUTATIONS.
    All RNA viruses (which include the coronavirus) mutate quickly, which means they easily bypass the protection in the form of antibodies. The latter must have the property of complementarity with respect to the virus, and it is even lost when the virus mutates - as a result, the vaccine loses its effectiveness and no increase in antibody titers can save the situation.

    What we have been seeing lately.
    1. Snail N9
      Snail N9 9 November 2021 14: 09
      +3
      Out on the Mail. ru type "news" - they are already diagnosing the fourth wave of coronavirus and type yes, "old" vaccines lose their effectiveness and revaccination may be required in a shorter time. In short, who wrote here that they smoothly lead to revaccination every six months, and then every month? It looks like you are not far from the truth. Maybe we really need to stop paying extra payments to hospitals and doctors for covid in order to return the situation to normal?
      1. Konnick
        Konnick 9 November 2021 14: 17
        +2
        Maybe we really need to stop paying extra payments to hospitals and doctors for covid in order to return the situation to normal?


        drinks
        Who benefits from all this fuss?
      2. flicker
        flicker 9 November 2021 14: 21
        +6
        Maybe we really need to stop paying extra payments to hospitals and doctors for covid
        Well, it’s probably important not to go from one extreme to the other.

        Doctors need to pay extra for covid (all the more, they are often not paid extra), but those who are engaged in postscripting should be given a hand. About 200 thousand rubles are allocated for the treatment of one covid patient. So some people are very tempted.
        But, I repeat, the doctors have nothing to do with it, they just work, which cannot be said about the officials from medicine.
        1. Cat Kuzya
          Cat Kuzya 9 November 2021 15: 05
          +3
          200 thousand ... There are no more questions. The reason for the "splash" on the surface.
          1. flicker
            flicker 9 November 2021 17: 17
            +4
            The reason for the "splash" on the surface
            If in this they would have treated it purely formally, but this is not so.
            They just climb out of their skin if only really prick.
            For what? Do they care about our health?

            Different gates say that the population is too large (they consume a lot of oxygen and emit a lot of carbon dioxide) and it worsens the environment, which means it needs to be reduced.

            How can you shorten it? History knows only examples of world wars, or epidemics.
            Or vaccinations?
            There are stray dogs castrated and a chip on the ear.
            Doesn't it look like it?
      3. Svarog
        Svarog 9 November 2021 20: 46
        0
        Quote: Snail N9
        In short, who wrote here that they smoothly lead to revaccination every six months, and then every month? It looks like you are not far from the truth

        I wrote .. and two months ago .. this is all obvious .. just if you think in the logic of rappers.
    2. Vitaly gusin
      Vitaly gusin 9 November 2021 19: 25
      -2
      Quote: flicker
      All conversations about how many and in what year died are useless if the main answer is not received: does vaccination against coronavirus save or not?

      I will answer you with the example of the fourth wave in Israel.

      It began at the end of May 2021.
      And mostly children and those who were not vaccinated got sick. But after a while, the vaccinated also began to fall ill, but the percentage of severe cases and mortality were several times less than those who were not vaccinated.
      After conducting research, it turned out that after six months, antibodies begin to decline and the older the person, the faster. And the amount of antibodies to protect against "Delta" was not enough and it was decided for the FIRST TIME IN THE WORLD to start booster vaccination according to age, from the elderly to the young. There was no lockdown, there was a "Green Standard" and a booster vaccine.
      Today the infection rate is very low and every day it is decreasing.
      It is being monitored how it works over time. If the next strain does not appear, presumably it will act from 9 to 12 months.
      With this example, you can decide whether the vaccine helps or not.
      1. flicker
        flicker 10 November 2021 13: 14
        0
        on the example of the fourth wave in Israel.

        a similar wave can arise even if there is no action.


        Above is an example of a Spanish woman. No vaccine was behind the decline
        1. Vitaly gusin
          Vitaly gusin 10 November 2021 14: 16
          0
          Quote: flicker
          Above is an example of a Spanish woman. No vaccine was behind the decline

          We live already in the 21st century and knowledge and technology and science are already different from that time. I gave you an example of today. What is happening today in many countries, Israel has already passed. But only due to the vaccine and compliance with sanitary standards without a lagoon, stopping production, destroying the economy, the country is at a very low level of infection and every day it continues to decrease (seen from the graph).
          It is a fact today
          But. this does not mean that if the next strain appears, there will be no infections.
          Today, both vaccines and drugs are being developed all over the world.
          The COVID Coalition, heavily funded by Bill Gates, has donated $ 4,3 million to develop the Israeli OPTION OF SUSTAINABLE vaccines in pill form are expected to protect against any strain.
          Above is an example of a Spanish woman. No vaccine was behind the decline
          Don't you agree to expect that from 17,4 million to 100 million people (0,9-5,3% of the world's population) will die and then it will pass by itself?
          1. flicker
            flicker 10 November 2021 14: 57
            0
            Don't you agree to expect that from 17,4 million to 100 million people (0,9-5,3% of the world's population) will die and then it will pass by itself?
            Of course not.
            The only question was whether the vaccine against Covid helps. As proof, you gave the 4th wave in Israel. Like, thanks to the booster vaccination, the number of cases fell sharply, which is confirmed by the curve.
            But, a similar curve occurs in the absence of vaccination. Rather, the FALL in the incidence is a consequence (i.e., it occurs without fail) of an excessively high incidence.
            In other words, the current drop in incidence in Israel is likely a consequence of the excessively high incidence in August and September. He fell ill, ended up in the hospital (or took to bed at home), limited contact with others (fewer infected) and, as a result, the incidence fell in October. Moreover, those who have been ill have immunity.
            ---
            I am not against vaccination in principle. If the coronavirus did not mutate, then the vaccine would be effective. But the coronavirus mutates and very often.
            In this matter, I hope more for a medicine that is not yet available, but everyone seems to be working on the creation of which.
            1. Shahno
              Shahno 10 November 2021 15: 16
              0
              As for the effectiveness of vaccines, and in relation to new strains too, it is now difficult to definitively answer until the end of the cycle in most countries, which Israel has already passed. No data yet ...
              From this, of course, something can already be concluded, but for now general considerations.


              Israel-patient statistics ...
              Well, for example, the peak incidence in two waves has an almost equal maximum.
              The vaccination start period is February, March ... and a sharp drop.
            2. Vitaly gusin
              Vitaly gusin 10 November 2021 15: 20
              0
              Quote: flicker
              In other words, the current drop in incidence in Israel is likely a consequence of the excessively high incidence in August and September. He fell ill, ended up in the hospital (or took to bed at home), limited contact with others (fewer infected) and, as a result, the incidence fell in October.

              No, of course it is not.
              This is what the Israeli Ministry of Health hoped for. But when they saw that the infectiousness of the disease and mortality began to grow and during the study it was found out that the virus penetrates those who ruled before 6 months, without waiting for the approval of the WHO and the FDA, people 60+ began to do a booster vaccine, they saw that it reduces serious diseases, they began to do all ages ...
              Quote: flicker
              But the coronavirus mutates very often.

              Yes, it mutates and mutates where there is a high incidence, so your theory is super DANGEROUS.
              For today there is only one way out - vaccination!
              Quote: flicker
              In this matter, I hope more for a medicine that is not yet available, but everyone seems to be working on the creation of which.

              The drug is already there, by Pfizer, paxlovid reduces the risk of hospitalization or death by 89%, the FDA will begin the registration process shortly.
              1. flicker
                flicker 10 November 2021 18: 26
                0
                Yes, it mutates and mutates where there is a high incidence, so your theory is super DANGEROUS.

                Yeah, how's that?
                Vaccination contributes to the emergence of new strains of coronavirus, reported in an article July 12 published in the scientific medical journal Vaccines

                The article was signed by thirty authors who are the developers of the Sputnik V vaccine, including the director of the center. N.F. Gamalei by Alexander Gunzburg.

                "It is becoming obvious that in the context of growing herd immunity, generated as a result of the past disease and vaccination, the number of SARS-CoV-2 variants with mutations in RBD and S-protein will grow rapidly," the article states.
                More details at https://aurora.network/articles/136-chelovek-i-obshhestvo/96008-gintsburg-priznal-chto-privivki-porozhdajut-novye-shtammy-koronavirusa
                1. Vitaly gusin
                  Vitaly gusin 10 November 2021 19: 16
                  +1
                  Quote: flicker
                  https://aurora.network/articles/136-chelovek-i-obshhestvo/96008-gintsburg-priznal-chto-privivki-porozhdajut-novye-shtammy-koronavirusa

                  Please do not be offended.
                  I do not read such sites, and these statements look extremely suspicious, in order to justify the low level of vaccination and if you go down this path it is scary to think in what numbers the mortality rate will be expressed.
                  As you know, world medicine relies little on the statements of Russian specialists and completely denies this theory.
                  “A video circulating on social media claims new variants of COVID-19 are being formed to bypass the antibodies created by the global vaccination campaign. But scientific evidence has yet to support this claim. Experts say there is no evidence that COVID-19 vaccination efforts have led to new COVID-19 variants. "
                  https://www.reuters.com/article/factcheck-vaccine-variants-idUSL2N2NL1M2
                  1. flicker
                    flicker 10 November 2021 19: 44
                    0
                    I do not read such sites, and these statements look extremely suspicious.
                    The site has nothing to do with it, you seem to have not paid attention to
                    July 12 published in the scientific medical journal Vaccines
                    1. Vitaly gusin
                      Vitaly gusin 10 November 2021 20: 08
                      +1
                      Quote: flicker
                      The site has nothing to do with it, you seem to have not paid attention to

                      More than that.
                      Publication title
                      "Neutralizing activity of sera from humans, vaccinated with Sputnik V, for variants of concern (VOC: B.1.1.7, B.1.351, P.1, B.1.617.2, B.1.617.3) and Moscow endemic SARS-CoV-2 variant "
                      https://www.mdpi.com/2076-393X/9/7/779
                      1. flicker
                        flicker 10 November 2021 22: 43
                        0
                        Publication title
                        There is also the publication itself.
                        "It is becoming obvious that in the context of increased herd immunity, developed as a result of past disease and vaccination, the number of SARS-CoV-2 variants with mutations in RBD and S-protein will rapidly increase. Some of the mutation variants occur independently in different genetic lines, for example, N439K [25] or the E484K mutation [9]. In our study, in addition to the appearance of the expected VOCs in Russia, we studied the diversity of local genetic lines with mutations in RBD. There is a significant percentage of substitution options that are becoming common: S477N + A522S (27,8%), N501Y (4,73%), E484K (3,55%), T385I (2,37%), E484K + S494P (1,77, 439%), N1,18K (508%), Y0,59H (478%), T0,59K (477%), S0,59N (501%), N0,59T (XNUMX%) "
                      2. Vitaly gusin
                        Vitaly gusin 11 November 2021 00: 20
                        0
                        Quote: flicker
                        There is also the publication itself.

                        Yes, that's why I gave you the link.
                        And he marked it.
                        "Neutralizing activity of sera from humans, vaccinated Sputnik V,
  29. Glory1974
    Glory1974 9 November 2021 12: 53
    +12
    Why does the government not provide statistics on how many vaccinated and unvaccinated people have fallen ill? This is easy to do, when they are admitted to hospitals they are interviewed. What prevents the collection of data? Say that 40 people fell ill, 000 of them were vaccinated, which corresponds to the 40% voiced in the media. But there is no such thing!
    Why did the doctors of hiding aid decide to quit en masse, refusing to be vaccinated? Maybe they saw such statistics with their own eyes and they didn’t like it? My friend is sick after 2 already given vaccinations, should have done the third and got sick. Damage to the lungs, not a damn mild course of the disease.
    1. moscowp
      moscowp 9 November 2021 17: 44
      -1
      Because after any vaccinations they get sick. It's strange that you have to explain to an adult that no placebo exists. It is important not how many vaccinated people got sick, but how this affects mortality. There are a lot of statistics, if you want to study. Consider, for example, the example of the UK, where the number of deaths from 1000+ per day from 100+ per day at the beginning of the year has reached the level of XNUMX deaths per day now, after mass vaccinations.
      1. Glory1974
        Glory1974 10 November 2021 10: 31
        +1
        get sick after any vaccinations

        This is a lie that we have heard for the second year. At first they said that the vaccinated did not get sick, then they said that the vaccinated got sick, now it turns out that the vaccinated are dying.
        Vaccination is done in order not to get sick.
        It's strange that you have to explain to an adult that no placebo exists.

        And no one is talking about a placebo. By the way, do you know what a placebo is? This is when there is no cure, but the person gets better. What is the connection between placebo and vaccination? Have you blurted out too much? repeat
        There are a lot of statistics, if there is a desire to study.

        I also write that there are no statistics. Show me statistics, where there is a number of cases, of which vaccinated and unvaccinated, and also for the dead. Across Russia. The rest of the countries do not interest me. Although there is no data on them.
        1. moscowp
          moscowp 10 November 2021 10: 51
          -1
          Yes, thanks, I didn't mean a placebo, but a panacea.
          Look for the stats yourself if you're interested. But you are clearly not interested, you are guided by what someone says, apparently voices in your head.
          I will only answer you for accusations of alleged lies. The liar is only you here, all the existing vaccines that we were vaccinated with in childhood, such as against tuberculosis or ADS, reduce the risk of getting sick and reduce the risk of serious consequences, no vaccine can prevent disease or death by 100%.
          1. Glory1974
            Glory1974 11 November 2021 10: 49
            0
            All existing vaccines, which we were vaccinated with in childhood, such as against tuberculosis or ADS, reduce the risk of getting sick and reduce the risk of serious consequences, no vaccine can prevent disease or death by 100%.

            All sailors leaving for a foreign country, especially to African countries, were vaccinated. For officers, complex vaccinations, in one injection from 20 diseases at once. After the injection, the arm hung like a whip for two hours, then gradually pulled away.
            According to your logic, after these vaccinations, some of the sailors should have died, the other will get sick.
            Oh, that's not shit! The conscientious vaccinations worked like clockwork. No one got sick either after vaccinations or after hiking.
            Yes, there is no talk about 100%. Collisions are possible. But in comparison with modern vaccines, this is heaven and earth.
            So what about the liar, leave it at your own expense. I have something to compare with.
    2. New Year day
      New Year day 10 November 2021 12: 47
      +2
      Quote: glory1974
      Why does the government not provide statistics on how many vaccinated and unvaccinated people fell ill?

      in fact of the matter!
      But the fact is that
      Quote: moscowp
      Because after any vaccinations they get sick.

      Little lies breeds great distrust
    3. flicker
      flicker 10 November 2021 20: 02
      -1
      Why does the government not provide statistics
      Because our government is split.

      The President does not get tired of repeating that vaccination should be VOLUNTARY,
      head of government Mishustin (through Golikova, Popova, Murashko) pushes FORCED vaccination, which not only DECAVUATES the position of the president, but also CRACKS society and makes people angry, which is fraught with shocks for the country.
      1. alekseykabanets
        alekseykabanets 10 November 2021 20: 34
        +2
        Quote: flicker
        Because our power is split ...

        If you remember what you were taught in school, then you will understand that state power expresses the will of the ruling class. That is, all sorts of Mordshovs, Rotenbergs, Abramovichs and others like them. This is already annoying: "The tsar is good, but the boyars are bad."
        Quote: flicker
        The President does not get tired of repeating ...

        Talking heads always say what the "electorate" wants to hear.
        1. flicker
          flicker 10 November 2021 22: 12
          0
          state power expresses the will of the ruling class.
          It can be seen that you were taught well at school.
          Here are just state power, although it is written in the singular, but it consists of many officials, the relationship between whom can rarely be called ideal.
          Likewise, the ruling class - remember the Bolsheviks and Mensheviks and how it ended, well, or the Communist Party.
          I am sure that the Mordashovs adore the Rotenbergs and Abramovichs and others, because they have nothing to share.
          ---
          "The tsar is good, but the boyars are bad"
          They forgot to add the people as well, since without them the society will not be fully represented.

          Of course, you know well from the school that the boyars always wanted to lead the tsar, for this they tried to discredit him in the eyes of the people (especially because of their status they were closer to the people than the tsar), forming a negative image of the tsar.
          And they did this with one purpose: to tell the king that the people hate him and that only they can save him from this evil people. And if so, then he must listen to their boyar will.

          The tsar, on the other hand, could rule independently (without looking back at the will of the boyars) only on condition of support from the people. Only in this case could he keep the boyars in check. An example of Ivan the Terrible, who, through the guardsmen, subdued the boyar will.
          ---
          A person, if he wants to achieve something, must look for a fulcrum (read allies).
          If your goal is simply to scold the president, then this is one thing.
          If you are against compulsory vaccination, as well as segregation of society, then you need to look for an impetus to support your position.
          And you can rely either on the president, who talks about voluntary vaccination (which means that you can demand from officials not to contradict the Head of State), or to Mishustin, who drowns for compulsory vaccination and segregation of society.
          ---
          So choose for yourself.
          1. alekseykabanets
            alekseykabanets 10 November 2021 23: 33
            +3
            Quote: flicker
            I am sure that the Mordashovs adore the Rotenbergs and Abramovichs and others, because they have nothing to share.

            What do you care about the showdown of some bastards with other bastards? What do you hope to benefit from their showdown?
            Quote: aleksejkabanets
            The tsar is good, but the boyars are bad

            With this expression, I wanted to say that the mentality of the Russian person tells him that the tsar is simply not reported about what kind of lawlessness is happening on the ground. He solves more important problems, and the bad boyars take advantage of the fact that the tsar simply does not have time to follow what is happening in Ust-Uryupinsk. Therefore, it is easier to shift all responsibility to the bad boyars. After all, the king always says that everything is fine in the country, the economy is growing, the bowels of the earth belong to the people, it's just that bad boyars, represented by local officials, have stolen everything again. More than a hundred years have passed, and nothing has changed. Why?
            Quote: flicker
            Of course, you know well from the school that the boyars always wanted to lead the tsar, for this they tried to discredit him in the eyes of the people (especially because of their status they were closer to the people than the tsar), forming a negative image of the tsar.

            Where did you get this stupidity? Are Abramovich and Deripaska closer to the people than the "elected by the people" president?
            Quote: flicker
            The tsar, on the other hand, could rule independently (without looking back at the will of the boyars) only on condition of support from the people.

            Where does this idealism come from? The fact that Peter the first relied more on the nobles than on the boyars, how was it connected with the support of the people, who, by the way, called him "Antichrist"?

            Quote: flicker
            A person, if he wants to achieve something, must look for a fulcrum (read allies).
            If your goal is simply to scold the president, then this is one thing.
            If you are against compulsory vaccination, as well as segregation of society, then you need to look for an impetus to support your position.
            And you can rely either on the president, who talks about voluntary vaccination (which means you can demand from officials not to contradict the Head of State), or on Mishustin, who drowns for compulsory vaccination and segregation of society.

            You should watch less TV, it will not bring you to good. In 1990, the RSFSR had 137 beds per 10 thousand of the population. In 2018, there are 77 beds per 10 thousand in the Russian Federation. This is on average. The regions are very different. For those who are in the tank, a bed is not just about putting a couch in the compartment and increasing the number. A bed is an infrastructural unit on which the number of medical and nursing rates, financing, supply and provision of the fund (hospitals, outpatient clinics) is tied to accommodate these same beds. Reducing the bed pool by 2 times means reducing the number of doctors and nurses by 2-3 times. This will reduce budgetary expenditures for the maintenance of polyclinics and hospitals, remove funding for science, close hospitals and clinics, and so on. For comparison - in South Korea, Japan, Thailand, the provision is 130-140 beds per 10 thousand in the United States and Italy about 30 beds per 10 thousand of the population. The difference in covid statistics for these countries is obvious. But anti-masochniki and those who are not vaccinated are to blame. Is not it? Who is destroying medicine, education, space, and much more? Putin? Mishustin? Medvedev? Rogozin? In the forest, all the wolves are gray, all this is one gang-watering can. When will it reach you?
            1. flicker
              flicker 11 November 2021 10: 43
              -1
              In the forest, all the wolves are gray, all this is one gang-watering can. When will it reach you?
              It has already come. belay The case is difficult, what is called a clinic.
  30. Basarev
    Basarev 9 November 2021 13: 16
    +7
    This is not a leap in mortality as many people think. This is its return to its true meaning, showing the true state of affairs in medicine. The short-lived prosperity of the XNUMXs only temporarily clouded the truth. The truth turned out to be expected: despite all the propaganda, Russia depends on oil prices. And the sanctions are working. After all, when Western favor disappeared, and the price of oil also began to return to its natural value - was it by chance that Russia's welfare instantly collapsed to the bottom?
  31. fa2998
    fa2998 9 November 2021 16: 57
    +2
    Quote: parusnik
    "- Day by day we live more and more merrily and more wonderful!

    The other day I was discharged from the crown hospital, I am full of impressions. I think I’ll sit down for an article, I’ll just cool down. I don’t remember such horror and chaos in 50 years. I survived! But I almost went crazy. belay hi
  32. faterdom
    faterdom 9 November 2021 18: 26
    +3
    Our regions, poor, crookedly cut, different-sized and differently accessible, cannot determine the strategy and tactics of combating the epidemic by themselves. This is not a rural Soviet task, but a state one.
    And the Supreme says: they must.
    I think so - he should.
    It is up to him to decide personally, to be personally responsible, for he has all the real power, all the resources and money he has. And the only significant elections we have are the presidential elections, the rest are props.
    Sitting "above the battle" here - it smells bad, so will we push the real war to the regions too?
    1. flicker
      flicker 9 November 2021 20: 02
      +1
      determine the strategy and tactics of combating the epidemic. This is not a rural Soviet task, but a state one.
      I’ll even say more - this is not a state problem, but a worldwide problem.
      Those. for this problem, the state does not care what
      our regions, poor, crookedly cut, of different sizes

      And if this is so, and this is so, then NOT
      all real power is with him
      and NOT
      he has all the resources and money.
      The trend called PANDEMIA was not set by us (but by the West) and adopted by almost all countries of the world, and therefore our opportunities here are severely limited, but still there.
      And there are, provided that we learn to see that our power is not homogeneous. That the policy of President Putin (and the siloviki) and the policy of Prime Minister Mishustin (and those liberals who promoted him to prime minister) are two different political lines.
      See the difference in the beginning, and these differences are now especially strong in attitudes towards vaccination, and then there are opportunities for action. The differences are that
      Each time the President declares that vaccination is VOLUNTARY.
      And the government headed by Mishustin is pushing FORCED vaccination.
      ---
      And the actions in this: now there are appeals from citizens in various regions to the President of Russia, the Prosecutor General, the Head of the FSB to establish constitutional order in the country and end the segregation and discrimination of the Russian population in connection with compulsory vaccination.
      1. Monster_Fat
        Monster_Fat 9 November 2021 20: 22
        +4
        Are you serious? Again, it turns out that the "liberals" are to blame. And Navalny? Have you forgotten why Navalny? laughing And what are the actions of the Guarantor of the Constitution to fulfill their duties
        on the prohibition of restricting the rights and freedoms of all citizens and prohibiting their segregation by the presence of QR codes? The same as with the pushed through "pension reform" -silence, and then- "Please treat with understanding"? hi
        PS: I remember there was such Boris55 he had a similar trick - broadcasting about the insidious Duma and the liberals and the President, who does not accept anything, but only signs laws and decrees that do not run counter to the Constitution or do not infringe on the rights of citizens and he insisted that, like, they would infringe upon the rights of citizens insidious liberals and the Duma and the President will rise as a Great Warrior to defend the rights of the people of Russia! And all the damned liberals will fall before him and the violated rights of citizens will be restored! Something is not visible Borisa55 anymore, I'm worried.
        1. Vadim237
          Vadim237 9 November 2021 22: 30
          -5
          Navalny is already sitting in the colony by the side of the bucket - where he should sit at his original place.
          1. Svarog
            Svarog 9 November 2021 23: 01
            +1
            Quote: Vadim237
            Navalny is already sitting in the colony by the side of the bucket - where he should sit at his original place.

            Well, this is about him let such a cartoon .. and you actively support .. Do you support torture and violence? Well, you yourself can be exposed .. Ezhov was like that .. he, too, probably could not have imagined what would happen to him too, what he did himself ..
            1. Vadim237
              Vadim237 10 November 2021 22: 15
              -1
              I am bloggers provocateurs who, for all the good against all the bad, working for foreign loot, do not support and will not support. And yes, if I were at the highest post, I would have introduced the death penalty, beatings in prisons for especially gifted greyhounds as a preventive measure and moved all the colonies to the north because there are many abandoned cities left that can be remade in the colony and all the current problems with such bloggers are numerous swindlers street thugs bribe thieves aueshniks and other monsters will be done away with - since the prison will turn into a real blood pressure for them and everything that happens there will be heard by everyone and will be a good incentive to comply with the laws that will also twist in the direction of radical tightening, but such an implementation will be relevant to 100% when AI is created in the judging system of the Prosecutor General's Office for financial control of digital money and a tracking system for all citizens - then order will come in the country and all crime will sharply decline.
          2. New Year day
            New Year day 10 November 2021 12: 49
            +2
            Quote: Vadim237
            Navalny is already sitting in the colony by the side of the bucket - where he should sit at his original place.

            and where should those who have optimized medicine sit?
            1. Vadim237
              Vadim237 10 November 2021 22: 21
              -1
              Medicine and education are optimized locally so that people from unpromising towns, villages and villages would leave and move to promising cities with a developed infrastructure; it is there that they build new hospitals, schools, and everything else from an economic point of view is correct.
        2. flicker
          flicker 9 November 2021 22: 57
          +1
          Again, it turns out that the "liberals" are to blame.
          Do not worry about them, they are not worth it. Save your heart.

          Not the topic of the question, what kind of sow do you have on your profile picture?
  33. Kushka
    Kushka 9 November 2021 19: 24
    +1
    [quote = atalef] [quote = Ingvar 72]
    [/ quote] No, quarantines, codes are complete nonsense. [/ quot

    "I do not like to be at home and depressed
    Read Facebook and rummage Telegram
    I don't like when the temperature
    And the cough presses the bronchi in the morning
    I do not like, to colic, to liver
    Do not smell bread, fish soup and sausage
    When I sit alone at a distance
    Like a fierce wolf, driven in the forest
    How hard it is inside such a routine
    Standing in port for a large ship
    Therefore, all your quarantines
    I will never love again "(C).
    1. Kushka
      Kushka 9 November 2021 19: 29
      0
      Wipe your eyes
      And look carefully
      I went down to the city
      Bourgeois rubbish
      With a monstrous snout overseas.
      And we her
      Soap, soap!
      Come on, comrade
      Don't stand like a tree stump
      My!
      Soap!
      Cleanse all day!
      Let's put in an offensive pose
      This infection is covid!
      Soap!
      Soap! (WITH)
  34. Glagol1
    Glagol1 9 November 2021 19: 46
    +2
    The population simply does not believe the Kremlinites and the zombie of state channels. That's minus 1 million lives in 2021 alone. And what to do next?
    1. Monster_Fat
      Monster_Fat 9 November 2021 20: 46
      +2
      How, what to do? Drive ̶п̶r̶i̶k̶l̶a̶d̶a̶m̶i̶ with QR codes of all for vaccination. What is being done. yes wink
      1. Sfurei
        Sfurei 10 November 2021 12: 54
        -1
        And I do not see any problem that everyone will be driven to vaccinations by force or for money. All the same, most of the townsfolk will drive a blizzard about distrust of the Kremlin and zombies .. Like the country and Miler and Sechin do not let them live. And what did you do to make you feel good, they do not want to talk.
        Even my former colleagues and colleagues constantly complain that life is hard for the people. At the same time, they all have houses and apartments bought on their own, jeeps and not cheap and not used, most of them have leadership positions or their own business. So straight and complain in the morning that the people feel bad, and at lunchtime they send a photo from a restaurant where every day they hawala with vodka and cognac .. And two or three times a year they had a rest abroad, and now in Sochi and the Crimea. And there is no one to feel sorry for them .. request
  35. Earnest
    Earnest 9 November 2021 21: 19
    +1
    Quote: Snail N9
    Exactly. It's like covid deaths. At work, people and their relatives were sick, some passed for covid, some did not pass, but they believe that it was covid, thank God no one died with them. Some have been vaccinated, some have not. And now we are going home, at the end of the working day, discussing coronavirus, one type of colleague comes in who has pierced himself and the whole family, etc. they say someone died there and here among relatives and friends. One of my friends, his wife works as a small boss in the social security department, he says, “Give the names of those who died with you, I will ask my wife to check the database of the dead.” The dude immediately stopped, looked at us with tower eyes and slammed the door.

    Some of my CLOSE acquaintances died: in December 2020, in Abakan, my friend's spouse (40 year) of my father's cousin, in Ufa on November 22, 2021, my friend's father-in-law (77 years old). Familiar nodding - that is, people with whom, for example, crossed paths at work and knew by name, patronymic and face - about 4 people who died from this rubbish I can confidently list. I don't even need social security.
    1. Vadim237
      Vadim237 9 November 2021 22: 45
      -2
      The fact that they will all be sick again and again is a fact that five who had been ill 7 months ago were vaccinated about 4 months ago at the enterprise again with covid were infected only during its worse than the first time that neither the immune response nor the vaccine helped.
  36. olimpiada15
    olimpiada15 9 November 2021 21: 50
    +1
    Too little is known about this infection. It is not correct to calculate mortality by a negative analysis, because treated patients sometimes die after receiving a negative test. But death is associated with damage during infection Patients with chronic diseases cannot receive specialized treatment, since hospitals have been redesigned for covid hospitals, in addition, there is a high probability of picking up an infection in case of prolonged contact during the course of treatment. Today, it can be argued that the severity of the disease usually depends on the amount of infection that has entered the body, i.e. prolonged contact with an infected person in a confined space. Those. masks and distance in public places and washing the hand of the face immediately after returning home are a real measure against severe illness. There is one more incomprehensible thing: families in self-isolation in some cases get sick, in others, family members do not get sick. Obviously, some people do have natural immunity.
  37. Sergey Nikiforov
    Sergey Nikiforov 10 November 2021 10: 58
    +2
    I have already spoken about the option when the unvaccinated should not be treated at the expense of the state.
    1. Sfurei
      Sfurei 10 November 2021 12: 45
      -1
      I also said to my familiar anti-vaccines: Do you not believe the doctors who give you vaccinations? The answer is NO. And if you get sick, will you go to the hospital for treatment? Answer: let's go to bed !!
      And then I suggested that they be consistent in their decisions: I decided not to get vaccinated, and never get cured. Call out to the sun and apply burdocks. Forced to vaccinate to go to work, give up work !! Be principled. No, nobody wants to be principled.
      We are almost all relatives and have been vaccinated and recovered from almost all of us. Moreover, those who were sick after the vaccination - no one was admitted to the hospital. I think one of these days we'll go for a revaccination.
      All health and take care of yourself !!
    2. flicker
      flicker 11 November 2021 10: 57
      +1
      I already spoke about the option when the unvaccinated should not be treated at the expense of the state
      By the way, an interesting idea.
      Only with her you can go far.
      And what about that, that every working person deducts to the CHI (compulsory health insurance) from 5,1% of the salary?
      And anything that is not vaccinated about 65% of the population? Those. almost twice as many as vaccinated, which means that those who were not vaccinated made more deductions to the compulsory health insurance.
      Or maybe it is the vaccinated who are being treated in hospitals for coronavirus at the expense of the NOT vaccinated?
      ---
      Interestingly, the NOT vaccinated do not advocate the segregation of society, but the vaccinated do it very often.
      Maybe it's time to stop? Maybe a person should voluntarily (and our president says every time that vaccination should be VOLUNTARY) decide whether to vaccinate him or not?
      ---
  38. Sfurei
    Sfurei 10 November 2021 12: 40
    0
    Thanks for the review .. Very informative and intelligible. And what is very pleasing: without unnecessary deviations (as it has recently been fashionable on VO), both in the direction of hysteria and in the direction of praising the situation.
  39. megadeth
    megadeth 10 November 2021 14: 55
    +1
    Here and without a crown ... we'll be dead soon. Deputy Head of the Central Bank Sergei Shvetsov said that it was too late to help pensioners, people should take care of their future retirement age (RBC). Even Nabiullina "baldela". Here is the question that the snickering mister Shevtsov corresponds to his position? For the "gayropovsky" Western IMF, probably yes, but for the people of Russia ??? No pensioner no problem ....

    Read more at RBC:
    https://www.rbc.ru/finances/21/09/2021/6149e3199a794706ede9bd89?utm_source=24smi&utm_medium=cpc&utm_campaign=24smi_cpc_nov21_pc&utm_content=3774625&utm_term=1302
    1. Kushka
      Kushka 10 November 2021 15: 45
      0
      "... without a crown ....
      No one will run away from the crown (well, so that it is very far)
      There is myself, there is a wife, there are parents, there are children, there are friends ...

      "Terrible grandfather Covid
      He sits under a tree
      So what can get infected
      Both the man and the damsel
      The old man and the baby
      Everyone who meets.
      Will infect all passers-by
      Terrible grandfather Covid "(C)
  40. Sayeret Matkal
    Sayeret Matkal 10 November 2021 16: 23
    -3
    Nothing grows, it's all lies
  41. Sayeret Matkal
    Sayeret Matkal 10 November 2021 17: 01
    0
    After Donbass, I decided to see another Dark territory of the Russian World - Transnistria. There, of course, everything is softer in humanitarian terms (for example, there is no longer a trench war and torture basements), but the same poverty and the collapse of the social sphere reign.
    The population of Transnistria is now 460 thousand (although evil tongues say that the real population is 370-380 thousand, people with hands and heads receive Moldovan and Romanian passports and leave to work in Europe; but still, let's take the official population of 460 thousand .). Now there, on average, 15 people die from Covid a day. The population of the PM is 310 times less than the population of the Russian Federation. Those. according to the Transnistrian relative mortality, now in Russia 4500-4600 people would die per day (15X310). Those. in relative terms, mortality from Covid in Transnistria is now 4 times higher than in Russia. It is also a territory of a humanitarian catastrophe, like Donbass.

    But on the whole, this is also a good example of the historical track. Humanitarian, social backwardness, even after centuries, overtakes the entire territory of the former USSR, as well as, looking at the situation with Covid, and the southeastern, Orthodox corner of Europe - Macedonia, Bulgaria and Romania.
  42. mem1963
    mem1963 11 November 2021 05: 00
    +2
    A similar situation was in 1828 in Sevastopol with a plague, one to one. Do not be lazy to read, there are not many letters. https://colonelcassad.livejournal.com/2021/11/08/ from the book: Sergeev-Tsenskiy "Treasurers"
  43. Illanatol
    Illanatol 13 November 2021 08: 54
    +1
    - Holmes, what do you think will happen when the annoying COVID-19 epidemic finally ends?
    - Elementary Watson. The COVID-20 epidemic will begin.