Subjunctive mood of history

124

Unhistorical introduction


Quite often it is said that “story has no subjunctive mood. " As a matter of fact, this is the case. If, of course, we mean the history that has already taken place. This very story cannot be changed in a completely natural way. Here and now. Everything is correct, logical and accessible here. We cannot go back and change something there. That story has already formed.

There is, of course, such a thing as falsification of history that everyone understands in their own way, but this is something completely different. As a matter of fact, history is too regularly politics, overturned into the past. Too often. Therefore, the history of the same war in the textbooks of the warring countries will look very different.



It is what it is. In itself, the example of millennial Rus-Ukraine clearly testifies to this. There is a political necessity and inventions begin. The funny thing is that millions of people believe in this ...

Well, the author is very interested in what further consequences this phenomenon may have. After all, after all, history exists only in the virtual reality of books, films and our consciousness.

Subjunctive mood of history

And we will have two incompatible stories.

In principle, even today communication with Ukrainians on historical topics is not very promising. They have their own, alternative history.

Even more interesting is the Lithuanian synthesis of the comrades of the Belarusians. This is generally something with something. The author has deep respect for the ancient Lithuanian history... It has a place to be, and there is no need to invent anything here. The story is powerful and interesting, even more powerful and interesting is the story of the Poles. It is very difficult to understand what the Belarusians have to do with it.

Rus-Ukraine and Lithuanianism are quite obvious attempts to appropriate someone else's history for the complete absence of its own. Hungarians have their own history, Czechs, Poles, Bulgarians, Croats ... But Kiev and Minsk have problems with this.

It is somewhat reminiscent of the Arabs with camels at the Egyptian pyramids. I specifically inform you: the pyramids in Egypt were not built by the Arabs. Alas. And for some reason they do not want to admit that their state is a remake.

But it's still a little different ...

Directly alternatives


Various fantastic and semi-fantastic stories are a completely separate topic.

The author had in mind a more academic history, a little separate from politics, if, of course, this is generally possible (and why not)?

So, about her, dear, here, oddly enough, two options are drawn: free will and historical predetermination.

Yes, of course, history has already taken place, but at that very moment William the Conqueror could, in principle, not have dared to land in England.

Either his landing could fail, or he could lose the Battle of Hastings.

Or maybe all these events are linked in a chain, strung on a thread like beads?

So which option is correct?

Fans of the phrase "history has no subjunctive mood" somehow by default mean that there are no options at all: what is destined will happen. Otherwise, what do they mean then?

And how can you even determine, being inside system, what is the principle operating there?

It is difficult to say with a high degree of certainty. After all, you can always notice that all our choices of two evils and throwing are predetermined from the beginning.

The most interesting thing is that the same people accuse the Nazi elite of the Third Reich of monstrous crimes against humanity and at the same time argue that history does not have a subjunctive mood (to speak of the Banner of Victory over the Reichstag), but if the Banner was predetermined from the outset, it means that and all the monstrous crimes of Nazism were also laid down in the original program of the universe, and it turns out that the failed Austrian painter is just a pitiful puppet of Providence?

And by the way, yes, actually, Hitler was a puppet (of quite specific political forces), a doll who tried to bite the string. But the idea is that to describe history you cannot simultaneously and in parallel use both options for describing the story, otherwise some kind of nonsense comes out.

If Hitler could not change anything, then what is his fault?

If he was originally destined to lead Germany, to unleash a war, then what can he be accused of?

If, as they say, the whole world is a theater, and people only play the roles assigned to them in the play, then what is their fault or merit?

On the other hand, if Hitler possessed free will and could choose options for the future, then the war could start and end in very different ways (or not start at all), and there is nothing fantastic and false about it.

That is, you have to choose: either Hitler is a "servant of Satan" and was cursed and doomed to perform all these arts, or the Victory Banner might not soar over the Reichstag. That is, either one or the other, but not both together.

I recall the story of the stealing slave of an ancient Greek philosopher:

- But I was destined to steal!
“And you were destined to be punished,” came the answer of the philosopher.

That is, either Hitler is just a politician - then history is mobile, or "a servant of Satan" - and then all this takes on a slightly religious connotation, as it took place in Soviet history textbooks. Where he was, as it were, hated with all his heart, but absolutely inevitable (as a product of the forces of darkness and world capital).

Just behind the listing of a string of dates and events, this very basic question somehow escapes. If history was mobile until June 22, 41, then why should it have changed its essence with the onset of this very date?

The war could go on in very different ways and have very different results.

Where does the fact that our victory was inevitable follow?

At least, not at all from the balance of forces and competencies of the parties for the period from the summer of 1941 to the summer of 1942.

Or is Operation Barbarossa and its failure - a game of higher powers or the result of completely earthly decisions and mistakes?

But neither one and the other in half (for some reason, I recall the classics, namely the Iliad, there it was in half). The question of the inquisitors to Joan of Arc also comes to mind: "Why did you urge the soldiers to fight, if the Lord will grant them victory anyway?" And the answer was: "For God to grant victory, the soldiers must fight."

At first glance, a simple question


Perhaps the most paradoxical thing in Soviet history is that, completely and categorically rejecting religion, our Soviet historical science retained the point of view of the predetermination of all that exists, only not from the point of view of religious revelations, but from the point of view of Marxist-Leninist teaching.

As it turned out, even during the Jurassic period, the triumph of the ideas of socialism throughout the galaxy was absolutely inevitable. Which, of course, could not but inspire real sacred awe.

Even Americans, to some extent, try to play these games, only here are the main markers of civilization - freedom and democracy. How much without them. Well, there is a free market and free enterprise as the basis of a galactic civilization in the distant future. As they say, if you want to make God laugh, tell him about your plans.

So is linearity typical for history (like a railway line) or are there options (forks)?

Is there one achievable future option (sooner or later) or are there options?

The idea of ​​foreseeing the future is just based on the simple fact of its uniqueness and predetermination.

That is, if a human story is just a book or a film, then it is quite logical to want to see, and what's next?

If the future is very multivariate and the further into the future, the more it is polyvariant, then such a question does not make sense in principle.

In other words, they are actually two very different models. And to combine them is rather strange. And which of the two models is correct is a difficult and philosophical question, but applying them simultaneously to describe history is a rather strange move. Predestination is either there or not. She cannot appear or disappear at some point in history. So is free will. Either there is or not.

We, in the end, have a single historical process, and if the past does not have a subjunctive mood, then the present does not have it either. The future, by the way, does not have either.

The opposite point of view is that now, yes, an event in the past has already happened and we cannot cancel it, but at the moment of the event (when the time was fresh) everything could have turned out differently.

And by the way, yes, the Second World War would have happened without one famous Austrian artist (it had much more serious reasons than the psychopathy of a single Bohemian corporal). Thinking differently is completely unscientific. To put it simply, there very serious people they were interested in where the Bohemian corporals were before them ... And these were not even representatives of the German monopoly capital.

Although then Gavrilo Princip had missed the mark in Sarajevo ... And everything could have gone differently. Rumor has it that they were quite familiar ... and worked in pairs. Austrian subjects? Further - everything according to O. Henry. So much for the conspiracy theory.

124 comments
Information
Dear reader, to leave comments on the publication, you must sign in.
  1. +25
    22 October 2021 18: 03
    ... Ah ... Got it ... It's Friday ... It's time for me to roll.
    1. +10
      22 October 2021 18: 10
      What about me? Drinking a little? I won't drink that much ...
      1. +10
        22 October 2021 18: 17
        drinks drinks drinks we will not leave you in trouble
        1. +4
          22 October 2021 18: 48
          Yes, of course, history has already taken place, but at that very moment William the Conqueror could, in principle, not have dared to land in England.

          Either his landing could fail, or he could lose the Battle of Hastings.
          Don't you think, Author, that we attach great importance to this battle. Why, the Vikings conquered England! good drinks Well, first of all, the Vikings have clearly been robbing and partly dominating Britain for at least ten years. Secondly, it takes a long time to explain, but William the Conqueror - Duke of Normandy had much more rights to the English throne than Harold... That is why he did not manage to collect enough troops, for the reason that the county counts sent him. And finally, the third: the Normans were Vikings already conditionally, they spoke French dialect, there were many mercenaries, Flemings, Frisians ... So whether Wilhelm had lost or won, it does not really matter, so the small-town showdown for the throne.
          1. +2
            22 October 2021 18: 58
            Normans were Vikings already conditionally

            They were domesticated and already sedentary Vikings.
          2. +2
            22 October 2021 20: 40
            The future "sponsors" of the invasion would not have "dripped" on William's brains through his Jewish mistress, there would have been no Hastings.
            And how the Jews rose after the conquest of England can be seen, for example, from the novel "Ivanhoe". Remember who FULLY equipped the protagonist before the tournament. Not every nobleman in France could afford such a "set".
            Regarding the "tyapnitsa" - "If Lyudin is not n'є, then there is a little sickness, or a big padlyuka."
            1. +1
              22 October 2021 20: 45
              Remember who FULLY equipped the protagonist before the tournament

              He would have tried not to equip it! wink
            2. 0
              24 October 2021 16: 37
              The future "sponsors" of the invasion would not have "dripped" on William's brains through his Jewish mistress, there would have been no Hastings.
              That's what I knew. And here it was not without them !!!! laughing
      2. +2
        22 October 2021 18: 18
        Quote: Leader of the Redskins
        What about me? Drinking a little? I won't drink that much ...


        Compensate with a degree. Absinthe, for example.
        1. +3
          22 October 2021 18: 29
          I am a Russian person. I don't need this greenery. But, to be honest, I rarely allow myself pure alcohol. In small doses, of course. I suggest that this is a medicine))) laughing
          1. 0
            23 October 2021 00: 03
            Quote: Leader of the Redskins
            I am a Russian person. I don't need this greenery. But, to be honest, I rarely allow myself pure alcohol. In small doses, of course. I suggest that this is a medicine))) laughing


            Understood. I don't like green. Maybe Jagermeister? Stoparik and varnish with beer. Ambrosia.
            1. 0
              23 October 2021 06: 20
              I tried it too. Not included. Of the imported brandies, some types of whiskey were still all right.
              But the variations of imported vodkas ... Schnapps - moonshine, Polish - poorly diluted alcohol.
              Finnish deserves respect ...
              Eh! It was all long ago! laughing
        2. +1
          22 October 2021 19: 13
          sergo1914 (Sergey)
          Pliz, do not offer asbent! Better clean, transparent, like a tear. Although there are lovers of both Armenian and whiskey. As I said, it's a matter of taste.
        3. +1
          22 October 2021 19: 45
          sergo1914 (Sergey)
          Sorry, my friend, I didn’t write to you, I was mistaken.
        4. +1
          22 October 2021 21: 22
          You are not by any chance "Cat-Behemoth" - "what vodka - only Alcohol!"
      3. +5
        22 October 2021 18: 33
        Well, 100 grams, maximum 150. I think it will be fine. And the rest is a matter of taste. The main thing is not to be a "little drinker" is the one for whom everything is not enough. Have a good weekend!
        1. +2
          22 October 2021 18: 41
          Exactly.
          Drinkers are divided into three types:
          1) Shy - they will drink and hold on to the wall.
          2) Hardy - drink and endure.
          3) Low drinkers - drink, but they are not enough.
          The latter is not about me)))
          1. +1
            22 October 2021 21: 11
            Quote: Leader of the Redskins
            Exactly.
            Drinkers are divided into three types:
            1) Shy - they will drink and hold on to the wall.
            2) Hardy - drink and endure.
            3) Low drinkers - drink, but they are not enough.
            The latter is not about me)))

            4) There are also "authorized" laughing
          2. +1
            22 October 2021 22: 50
            Then to your classification I can add the ubiquitous drunks laughing drinks
        2. +1
          22 October 2021 19: 04
          Quote: Bumblebee_3
          Well, 100 grams, maximum 150. I think it will be fine.

          Well, at least two 200. I have already completed my half of the end of the week, but not the evening.
          1. +2
            22 October 2021 19: 09
            tihonmarine (Vlad)
            Well, I said: a matter of taste. The main thing is not to overdo it and not go into a binge. And not the right drunk, I think you know ... what it leads to.
            1. +2
              22 October 2021 19: 12
              Quote: Bumblebee_3
              The main thing is not to overdo it and not go into a binge. And not the right drunk, I think you know ... what it leads to.

              Hangover from the cadets' years was forbidden. We are holding on to that (but not going over).
              1. +4
                22 October 2021 19: 16
                sergo1914 (Sergey)
                It's very good when you know the norm. I am a former border guard, I know what a border is!
      4. +4
        22 October 2021 19: 05
        Quote: Leader of the Redskins
        What about me? Drinking a little?

        Then at least sniff for us.
      5. +1
        22 October 2021 20: 27
        Quote: Leader of the Redskins
        What about me? Drinking a little? I won't drink that much ...
        Better to remain silent ... otherwise they will offer an inhaler or an enema. laughing
      6. 0
        22 October 2021 20: 48
        The leader of the Redskins. In general, you can not drink. Can be sniffed well if specified. You don't have to sniff drugs. I have the impression that the author smelled long-worn and not washed socks, but it was determined that it had such an effect on him. As the hero of one film said, that if necessary, then the rooster will lay an egg. That is, everything that was and that will be possible, he knows it can go in many ways, or on asphalt, or on rails, or maybe on a dirt road. And everything that is written in the Bible may have a completely different purpose and it is necessary to create several more Bibles with other ways of development, even riding a camel and a radio station that was carried in the Ark of the Covenant. And the Wailing Wall in Jerusalem is its chimera not there, due to the fact that on the other side it is completely different.
      7. 0
        23 October 2021 13: 04
        What about me? Drinking a little?
        share with drinkers! Let it be worse for us laughing drinks
    2. +4
      22 October 2021 18: 38
      "So let's drink to cybernetics!" drinks laughing
      1. +3
        22 October 2021 19: 16
        Quote: parusnik
        So let's drink to cybernetics! "

        I drink to the shirts of the guy
        for bollards topenates,
        for fores and for nights,
        for staples and blocks,
        for the boatswain's throat,
        for Sakhalin-Chukotka,
        For the roar of the ocean
        for the captain's soul
        and for myself that I am.

        Moreover, I am the captain myself.
    3. +3
      22 October 2021 19: 02
      Quote: sergo1914
      Ah ... Got it ... It's Friday ... It's time for me to roll.

      For health, I have already rolled the first one.
      1. +2
        22 October 2021 19: 13
        Today, finally, they brought a salted herring !!! I have Brandy and pickled tomatoes!
        In general, boom, hello drinks
        Three days off and wonderful weather good there will be fishing and mushroom entry!
        1. +2
          22 October 2021 19: 26
          sergo1914 (Sergey)
          Brandy and pickled tomatoes ???? Although everyone has their own taste, said the Indian, getting down from ... Well, I can understand our, dear, white s (options): pickled cucumbers - a classic, herring with boiled potatoes, pickled milk mushrooms. So I keep changing the subject to Benin’s mom, otherwise I won’t stop!
          1. +3
            22 October 2021 19: 37
            Quote: Bumblebee_3
            Well, I can understand our, dear, little white s (options): pickled cucumbers - classic, herring with boiled potatoes, pickled milk mushrooms.

            I have a salty (this year) yellow milk mushroom, pickled cucumbers with red currants, a blue-eyed potato and a head of garlic. For the rest .. (little does not happen, but its own norm as a law) I go a second time. It's law after work Friday.
            1. +1
              22 October 2021 19: 52
              tihonmarine (Vlad)
              Show off. Yes? Change the subject! "Did you come here to eat vodka or fish? So catch it, and not a word to vodka (with a snack) !!!! ...." (not mine - the peculiarities of national fishing) Not literally!
              1. 0
                22 October 2021 20: 05
                Quote: Bumblebee_3
                Show off. Yes? Change the subject!

                I am not bragging, I am stating a fact. I'm at work today with an overnight stay: I can't go fishing. But from everything you need to extract the positive.
            2. 0
              22 October 2021 20: 03
              tihonmarine (Vlad)
              You visit the site more often! Not in the know where the "midshipman" went? Something is not visible on the site. Can you tell me? Or contact the admins?
              1. 0
                22 October 2021 20: 34
                Quote: Bumblebee_3
                Can you tell me? Or contact the admins?

                And what about admins? Yuri Georgievich has not visited the site since February of that year.
                1. 0
                  22 October 2021 20: 38
                  Mordvin 3 (Vladimir)
                  Do you know if he is alive and well? If everything is okay, say hello to him! If anyone can. From his posts, I understood that there were some, only he was either the leading or the chief leader, and I was an ordinary engineer. But they worked in one area or a related one.
                  1. 0
                    22 October 2021 20: 46
                    Quote: Bumblebee_3
                    Do you know if he is alive and well?

                    Not in the know, alas. Likewise, my fellow countryman disappeared a long time ago, a former calculator of the BZHRK. Not visible on the site for three years.
                    1. +1
                      22 October 2021 20: 56
                      Mordvin 3 (Vladimir)
                      Health to you, Vladimir!
          2. +1
            22 October 2021 20: 18
            And with little white a joke!
            Don't buy Green Mark vodka !!! It looks like there are a couple of shots left in the bottle, but in fact !!! HER'S HER BOTTOM INSIDE THE CONCAVE !!!
            I needed a couple of shots to relieve stress ... it didn't grow together. And brandy, gift, is worth a couple of years .... it is not in my taste, but, there is a complete set, t.s. had to open!
            1. 0
              22 October 2021 20: 36
              rocket757 (Victor)
              They reminded me. I was, at one time, in the city of Izyum, Kharkiv region. There the guys showed me a decanter with a devil inside. Decanter 0,5 l. 400 ml, pours out normally, after the devil, sits on the neck with his ass and does not let the vodka pour out. Damn so funny, with a red tongue, horns and raised arms and tail. Bulging eyes. The decanter must be turned over and placed in a glass, vodka or liquid begins to drip inside. I asked why? 100 grams in the morning! He asked to sell - they refused.
              1. 0
                22 October 2021 20: 47
                With the devil, this is cunning and caring for the suffering, in the morning!
                And with a concave bottom, this is the greed of manufacturers, an illusion of sight / perception, deception.
        2. +1
          22 October 2021 19: 31
          Quote: rocket757
          Today, finally, they brought a salted herring !!!

          Oh teased, I'm going to buy another 200 ml. and salted spicy salted kilka. Whisper!
          1. +1
            22 October 2021 20: 29
            I am a fish eater, I live in the interfluve, the Volga-Akhtuba floodplain ... river fish, at least some, always please, some are also always there ... but I love herring and halibut !!! And here it is a rarity, in recent years.
            1. +1
              22 October 2021 21: 35
              Quote: rocket757
              I am a fish eater, I live in the interfluve, the Volga-Akhtuba floodplain ... river fish, at least some, always please, some are also always there ... but I love herring and halibut !!! And here it is a rarity, in recent years.

              I remember from your comments, and I know some of your places, the Astrakhan state farm and the Caspian state farm, what a fish! And in our country, sprat and herring were everyday, now also with effort, and the price of fresh sprat is about 2 euros per kilka, autumn herring is 1,5 euros and in Soviet times 35 kopecks. Now I took in the store "sprat" sprat 350 gr. for 3,5 euros. I'm bastard like a cat.
              Halibut is a fairy tale with us, it's all the prerogative of murmash and archangels, but smoked and beer, it's also a fairy tale.
              1. 0
                22 October 2021 22: 26
                Earlier in the Baltics, with fish, sea, there was no tension ...
                I remember, in Tallinn, I was on a business trip to the Academy of Sciences ... I always took fish dishes in their cafe ... very tasty, very fresh, and not frozen, which came to us.
                And with us, before, it was easier to find black caviar than to buy good sea fish .... it was a long time ago, alas, alas.
                1. 0
                  22 October 2021 22: 46
                  Quote: rocket757
                  And with us, before, it was easier to find black caviar than to buy good sea fish .... it was a long time ago, alas, alas.

                  That's right, we had a lot of sea fish: but there was one store in Tallinn from the RCS there was Volga fish, of course, without black caviar: but our salmon was. But the sterlet was also occasionally there.
                  1. 0
                    22 October 2021 23: 49
                    It's not a boom in vain to regret what will no longer be, in the foreseeable future, at least ...
                    With caviar and we are now tight, but the sterlet is not difficult to catch, now, before freezing, there are cherished places where it is caught ... but this is the risk of running into a big fine.
            2. +1
              22 October 2021 21: 44
              [quote = rocket757] I also graduated from KTI (Kaliningrad) in absentia on "Ichthyology and Fish Farming", but this is for the soul, not for work, and that is the third specialty.
        3. +2
          22 October 2021 19: 47
          rocket757 (Victor)
          Brandy and pickled tomatoes ???? Although everyone has their own taste, said the Indian, getting down from ... Well, I can understand our, dear, white s (options): pickled cucumbers - a classic, herring with boiled potatoes, pickled milk mushrooms. So I keep changing the subject to Benin’s mom, otherwise I won’t stop!
          1. 0
            22 October 2021 20: 32
            I flew with little white, flew by! The bottle manufacturers joked, they drove the bottom of the bottle inside ... it looks like there is still, in fact there was not enough for a glass! And I have a norm, a couple of shots on Friday before the weekend.
        4. +2
          22 October 2021 21: 38
          I have Brandy and pickled tomatoes!

          Well ..., not in a hussar way. Serve champagne and sunflower seeds here!
          Your health, Victor!

          Best regards,
          Michael
          1. +2
            22 October 2021 22: 33
            No no. Michael, champagne is all sharp, fast, you can't sit, don't think ... it's all about magic bubbles !!!
            When the fun, the holiday, it’s the very thing ... and when alone, with a book or a tablet, now you need something more solid, not fast.
            1. +1
              22 October 2021 22: 49
              now, you need something more solid, not fast.

              Slowness and thoroughness ... Probably, these are signs of coming wisdom.
              But to chew, all the same, sometimes so pulls!
              1. +1
                22 October 2021 23: 56
                There will be a new year, then March 8 ... pop without fail!
                The drink is entertaining, sharp, but ... colic is easy to get, the body is more loyal to little white. It's already age ...
                Although, there would be a real Cuban Rum, I would not refuse to shake the old days.
            2. 0
              23 October 2021 12: 13
              Quote: rocket757
              When the fun, the holiday, it’s the very thing ... and when alone, with a book or a tablet, now you need something more solid, not fast.

              When on Friday I set myself a holiday, next to a computer, the French chanson is not loud, the table is set from my own garden and forest, and only "little white", she understands me and I understand her too.
              And no women.
              1. +1
                23 October 2021 12: 32
                Thinking about the essentials when there is a distracting "interior element" nearby ... perhaps not, not a suitable option.
                1. +1
                  23 October 2021 12: 37
                  Quote: rocket757
                  Thinking about the essentials when there is a distracting "interior element" nearby ... perhaps not, not a suitable option.

                  That habit from childhood, in the seas of "distractions" was not present.
    4. +2
      22 October 2021 19: 32
      Really the dude carried ... But for the History it is a sin not to roll! laughing
      1. +1
        22 October 2021 20: 38
        Come on ... there were times, I wanted to try everything and different, the more opportunities were!
        I remember two strong drinks .... Hungarian Palinka good and Bulgarian Mastic be e e negative
        I also remembered Cuban Rum, Reis cigarettes and shark fin soup ... oh, how I sucked belay then.
        1. +1
          23 October 2021 12: 41
          Quote: rocket757
          I also remembered Cuban Rum

          In the morning (if you report) when you go to the toilet like this, only paint the fences.
          1. 0
            23 October 2021 12: 47
            Well, yes, Rum Negro ... was also "gouge out".
            It still sank, but there simply wasn’t anything else there, and without it, their climate wouldn’t endure ice.
            1. +1
              23 October 2021 16: 53
              Quote: rocket757
              Well, yes, Rum Negro ... was also "gouge out".

              It is the most! even now, goosebumps, although "Bacardi" Cuban is very good, and canny vodka on pitta is good.
    5. 0
      23 October 2021 12: 22
      Not Friday, but Tyapnitsa)))
  2. +3
    22 October 2021 18: 20
    "Shura. More incomprehensible. People are afraid of this." - Golden calf. It was in those days that people were afraid of incomprehensible things. Now they flock like flies to honey. At the same time, saying, "It is not clear, but very interesting."
  3. +4
    22 October 2021 18: 20
    History is taught as it should, and not as it was.
    1. +1
      22 October 2021 20: 25
      Quote: konstant213
      History is taught as it should, and not as it was.

      History teaches "do not do as it was, but do to make it better." But for some reason this does not work, we probably forget history.
  4. -1
    22 October 2021 18: 24
    -The Hungarians have their own history.
    History textbooks say that the Hungarians came to Pannonia and ... found their historical homeland.
    It took a long time to decide who they are. Türks or Finno-Ugric, The first are, as it were, in a trend.
    That there would be WWII was already clear ... after the end of WWII, humiliating peace for Germany, mutual territorial claims after the collapse of 4 (!) Empires of the newly formed states, the emergence of Bolshevik Russia, and then the USSR, the dollar did not become the world currency, as the Fed wanted, etc.
    And the last thing. Before Sarajevo there was an attempt in Lvov (Lemberg), but the British did not succeed then.
    And this article may well (if desired by visitors and authors) be a "seed" for the heading "Alternative history".
    This is where the field is unplowed for discussion.
    1. -1
      22 October 2021 20: 13
      "seed" for the heading "Alternative history".


      The article is a little not about that. Not so commonplace.
      The question is what kind of world we live in.
      Deterministic or probabilistic.
      1. 0
        22 October 2021 21: 43
        Fans of the phrase "history has no subjunctive mood" somehow by default mean that there are no options at all: what is destined will happen.

        Actually, the subjunctive mood is when they say: "But if ... then then ...".

        The question is what kind of world we live in.
        Deterministic or probabilistic.

        Why attract determinism and probabilities here? Why is the history of history and diamatics not pleasing to you?
        Quackery.
      2. +2
        23 October 2021 08: 36
        Quote: Olezhek
        "seed" for the heading "Alternative history".


        The article is a little not about that. Not so commonplace.
        The question is what kind of world we live in.
        Deterministic or probabilistic.

        We live in a probabilistic world - not in a deterministic one.
        This probability in different historical periods and different periods of time can manifest itself to a greater or lesser extent.
        The bifurcation points are especially important - the forks of world history.
        Specialists in the modern world are very well aware of such opportunities. They try to prepare the situation and use it in the right direction.
  5. +5
    22 October 2021 18: 25
    The First World War began primarily due to the fact that Germany was unhappy with its place in the world. So, with or without Principle, the war would have started anyway and would have been something like it was.

    And from the Second World War it would be the same. The frightened Entente plundered Germany to the bone and shoved it under the lock, where the Germans were very uncomfortable. So, predictably, Germany became even more dissatisfied with its place in the world. So, the emergence of a revanchist leader was inevitable - it was Hitler or someone else. As well as the direction of aggression to the east. At the end of the First World War, Russia showed itself to be extremely weak, so the idea of ​​colonizing it a little, since Africa / America is all busy, comes very easily.
    1. 0
      22 October 2021 21: 50
      There were other suitable persons there as well. But only one of them guessed to write the correct book called "Give the East, we will break the USSR". Translated into German "My Struggle". The West immediately understood and bet on it. He perfectly understood why and from the undertaken obligations - he could not refuse a five-year period in one quarter. He attacked early, so that they would understand that he was on his board. And at the end he told Göring where to go, and a week later he shot himself. He very much hoped that in the USSR it would be like with Poland, Moscow was taken, there was no power, those whom he attacked Naglia would help.
  6. +1
    22 October 2021 18: 34
    I do not undertake to speak for all the subjunctive mood, but if the "innocently repressed" Pavlov had built barracks in the suburbs of Brest, the rout would not have been so shameful and offensive.
    1. 0
      22 October 2021 18: 47
      Quote: lelik613
      I do not presume to speak for all the subjunctive mood

      In fact of the matter! "Do you want to make God laugh? Tell him about your plans!"
      1. 0
        25 October 2021 07: 03
        Explaining for the false-eyed: The defeat of the Brest group of the Red Army wore Shameful character. The garrison of the fortress was locked inside and methodically destroyed. “The deployment of Soviet troops in Western Belarus was not initially subordinated to operational considerations, but was determined by the presence of barracks and premises suitable for the deployment of troops. This, in particular, explained the crowded location of half of the 4th Army's troops with all their stores of emergency reserves (NZ) on the very border - in Brest and the Brest Fortress ”(c) L. M. Sandalov. The small (in comparison) money for the construction of barracks for the personnel of the two divisions where it was required by the deployment plans, of course, would not have canceled the superiority of the Germans. They just transferred the situation in Brest from the category of "disaster and collapse" to the category of "defeat like everyone else," and Pavlov himself from the group "fabulous D ..." to the group "d ... ordinary". And it had a beneficial effect on the condition of his skin.
  7. +4
    22 October 2021 18: 40
    "- Ah! Are you a historian?" Asked Berlioz with great relief and respect.
    - I am a historian, - the scientist confirmed and added neither to the village nor to the city:
    - Tonight there will be an interesting story at Patriarch's Ponds! "(C) laughing
  8. 0
    22 October 2021 18: 43
    Soaa, stretched over a globe, becomes the site's emblem.
    1. -1
      22 October 2021 18: 54
      My respect, Victor Nikolaevich!
      But I don’t think that this opinion (although it is very chaotic) is such a "night owl".
      1. 0
        22 October 2021 19: 11
        The funny thing is that our opposing opinions are equally assessed by the local public.
        1. -1
          22 October 2021 19: 19
          It's not funny, it's sad. I am ready to continue the dialogue tomorrow, but in the "mail" in order to exclude the "unicellular".
          1. +1
            22 October 2021 19: 33
            Is it sad to have different opinions or the same ratings?
            1. 0
              22 October 2021 19: 38
              The average level of erudition of resource users is sad.
          2. -2
            22 October 2021 19: 41
            Ignore the community, enemies of the communists !? angry

            - They are beautifully coming !!!

            - INTELLIGENCE !!!
            1. 0
              22 October 2021 19: 51
              Yes, how can you do it !!!!
              Here you, Uncle Kostya, can you explain in a "few words what" time "is ???
              1. -1
                22 October 2021 20: 12
                Yes, time is the number of nerve cells that will be spent in the morning waiting for the opening of the piece department.
              2. -1
                22 October 2021 20: 17
                Quote: 3x3zsave
                So you, Uncle Kostya, can you explain in a "few words what" time "is?

                Uncle Kostya did not answer.
                But my time is a simple value, went to sea for 9 months, returned to the port, and my son was born: and I did not notice how 9 months passed, They slipped by like one day, and did not notice that the youngest already 27 years. This is space and time.
                Disliked them.
  9. +1
    22 October 2021 18: 47
    What have the Belarusians got to do with it, it's very difficult to understand

    Belarusians are the real heirs of the Grand Duchy of Lithuania! But the Lithuanians with the Samogitians lived in the farms and appeared in history relatively recently ...
    1. 0
      22 October 2021 19: 39
      Xlor, here's one more thing. If Dmitry Donskoy hadn't refused the hand of his daughter Yagailo, the story would have taken a different path.
      The ON would have remained Orthodox. There would have been no Rzecz Pospolita. Poland would have remained a country not even of the second class, mired in internecine strife.
      1. 0
        22 October 2021 21: 52
        And if instead of his daughter a son of the color of shoe polish had been born, then he would have thought.
    2. 0
      22 October 2021 20: 20
      Quote: Xlor
      Belarusians are the real heirs of the Grand Duchy of Lithuania!

      The Grand Duchy of Lithuania - Russians and Lithuanians. That says it all.
      1. 0
        23 October 2021 01: 42
        Not the Lithuanians, but the Lithuanians ... they were recorded by the Belarusians in the IVS.
        1. 0
          23 October 2021 12: 16
          Quote: Piligrim
          Not the Lithuanians, but the Lithuanians ... they were recorded by the Belarusians in the IVS.

          Litvin is not a Lithuanian name. Then we will be exact: "The Grand Duchy of Lithuania, Russian, Zhemoytskoe" - reflected the multiethnic composition of its population. On ethnic grounds, it was divided into Lithuanians (aukstaits), Russians and gemoyts.
  10. -2
    22 October 2021 18: 49
    It seems that censorship has not yet reached the extreme. Is it not possible to "express well?!" ... If someone has abused "free will" and "turned the wrong way" somewhere. Then - "Name - in the studio!" ...
    And the fact that "the upper classes cannot, but the lower classes do not want" is complete nonsense, without "interested persons", this is already so - it is obvious to many.
  11. -1
    22 October 2021 18: 53
    The author of the article was drunk!
  12. +1
    22 October 2021 19: 02
    And if he was carrying cartridges ?!
    1. -1
      22 October 2021 21: 39
      hi
      And if he was carrying cartridges ?!
      laughing good
  13. -5
    22 October 2021 19: 37
    where are the Bohemian corporals before them ...

    And yes, the "tower skull" doesn't know that. Schickelgruber's congenital syphilis. and by the way - this gives ... Well, let's say extraordinary communication, a person does not always give this report - but categorically ... Well, handsome, speak brightly, he does not always know himself
  14. +1
    22 October 2021 19: 44
    the author does not understand what history is and is not familiar with philosophy, such as a graduate of a modern university
    1. -2
      22 October 2021 20: 10
      Not a fact, but that he is categorical - it is. Which, by the way, does not say good about him
    2. -1
      22 October 2021 21: 52
      Quote: Ryaruav
      the author does not understand what history is and is not familiar with philosophy, such as a graduate of a modern university

      The author, like most historians, is a specialist in labeling. Confuses the proof and the postulate, that is, the label. He is categorical in the same way as he is lascivious in reasoning.
  15. +1
    22 October 2021 19: 55
    In the chart of historical distributions at the end of the article, in my opinion (IMHO),
    the best option would be the military dictatorship of General Kornilov. If
    (again the subjunctive mood). If the accidental projectile hadn't hit. If
    an accidental shell did not hit the bridge of the "Tsarevich", killing Vitgeft, (and on the bridge
    under Tsushima in "Mikasa", Togo did not kill, killing staff officers), then maybe
    and the Pacific squadrons after the battles and to Vladivostok would have crawled, and the revolution
    1905 would not have happened. All alternatives of history sucked on their forum.
    And in Soviet science fiction in the story of the North of Gansovsky "The Demon of History".
    But: "Times are not chosen, they live and die."
    The author of the article should strain himself and build an article with a diagram of options
    development of modern Russia. With indication of probabilities in percent.
  16. Eug
    +1
    22 October 2021 19: 57
    Even if Hitler, according to the author, cannot be accused of unleashing a war, then he can and should be accused of encouraging an inhuman attitude towards prisoners and civilians in the occupied territory of the USSR.
    1. +1
      22 October 2021 20: 07
      Even if Hitler, according to the author, cannot be accused of starting the war


      Generally not about that.
      1. -1
        22 October 2021 23: 01

        Robert Sapolsky (American neuroendocrinologist, professor of biology, neurology and neurosurgery at Stanford University) is curious about this topic. All the more interesting, considering how much this person, the world luminary, is aware of the work of the human brain, in matters of biology.
        This is just a small excerpt of his interview (the last minutes deserve special attention!), But his lectures for students are even more interesting. They are on the net. Strong impressions leave and turn the worldview. I recommend it to anyone who wants to see the world as it really is.
    2. 0
      22 October 2021 20: 21
      Quote: Eug
      then he can and should be accused of encouraging an inhuman attitude towards prisoners and civilians in the occupied territory of the USSR.

      Say it as it is - the destruction of the Slavs.
  17. +2
    22 October 2021 20: 21
    Does a newborn person have a story? Yes, because he was born in a certain family, he has a surname, he was given a name. Yes, he himself has not done anything yet, he has not done any actions, except perhaps completely unexpected. He has his whole life ahead of him, if he is healthy, if his parents put their love into him, bring up, give him an education. Ideal? Undoubtedly. Why, then, do criminals, terrorists, crooks, etc. turn out? Question. So it is with states. Why do some prosper, while others, on the contrary, vegetate and lose population? Social Darwinism? No. Rather, someone's oversight.
  18. +2
    22 October 2021 20: 36
    You can't tell without half a liter. But half a liter is also predetermined.
  19. +2
    22 October 2021 20: 49
    The article is very much on demand wow! Somehow the main forces agreed that we will have a drink on Friday !?
    And the message is not even sickly, if it is predetermined by history, why resist it? If the Germans are destined to occupy the territory of the former USSR, it did not work out in the 40s later, and the subtext is "why such sacrifices?" This is predetermined! Here is the quote: "
    He was originally destined to lead Germany, to unleash a war, then what can he be accused of? "(C)
    And further:
    "Whence follows the fact that our victory was inevitable?" (C)
    No one is deprived of history, neither Belarus nor Ukraine.
    How they write it is their business. Polish, Lithuanian and Russian are really richer, but this does not mean that our neighbors did not have their own history!
    The creepiest thing is:
    "The idea of ​​foreseeing the future is just based on the simple fact of its uniqueness and predetermination." (C)
    And now a question for the audience, who determines this in our country?
    PS as always to the regulators of the site: "Do you think you are typing?"
  20. +1
    22 October 2021 21: 24
    How much has been written.
    But in fact, about nothing.
  21. -1
    22 October 2021 22: 35
    That is, you have to choose: either Hitler is a "servant of Satan" and was cursed and doomed to perform all these arts, or the Victory Banner might not soar over the Reichstag. That is, either one or the other, but not both together.

    Everything is more complicated. In addition to the sea of ​​forks, there are also islands - absolute points where nothing could go otherwise. And in this sense, the war could not have started, but it could have gone anyway - and then the victory of the USSR in it was inevitable. Likewise, in the late eighties it was no longer possible to save the Union. I have been thinking about alternative history for many years and therefore understand these absolute points with irrefutable clarity.
    1. +2
      27 October 2021 16: 48
      Most likely, the so-called. points of bifurcation (instability), and each event is still probabilistic.
      I like the analogy with chess: theoretically, all possible combinations are known and mathematically calculated, but for the player the outcome is not known, and is determined by a certain probability, which partially depends on his ability to calculate the situation.
      1. 0
        27 October 2021 17: 06
        I still think that there are predetermined events. I think everyone agrees that the Axis could not win the war under any circumstances? Japan could defeat the United States, Germany could defeat Britain, but the USSR, or rather, Russia, more precisely, the Russian ethnos, cannot be defeated by an external military invasion in principle, for such are the laws of the universe. In a defensive war, the Russians are absolutely inaccessible, much like Israel - even if all-all Islam in a single impulse goes to war against Israel, then Islam will undoubtedly lose.
  22. +1
    22 October 2021 23: 08
    Quote: Ryaruav
    and is not familiar with philosophy such as a graduate of a modern university

    In the Soviet universities "Philosophy of Marxism-Leninism" a semester was devoted. WITH
    by taking notes of sources in the spirit of "Anti - Dühring" F. Engels. And try
    handwritten synopsis can not be imagined. But sometimes the ancient Greek schools of philosophy
    for a report at a seminar with a critical analysis were asked.
    And lectures about the origin of the concept of "dialectics", with Kant, Hegel and others
    in the course "History of Marxism-Leninism" aversion to ideology was asked
    thoroughly, at the level of the thickness of the work of K. Marx "Capital". But something in my head
    postponed. About accepting or not accepting "the role of the individual in the historical
    process ".
  23. 0
    22 October 2021 23: 41
    Sorry, Oleg, but the article is extremely superficial ...

    Be in history at the peak of power in due time only other people - in general, the whole story could be much different from our current one. In general, the role of the individual in history is a very long-standing dispute between conditional "pragmatists" and conditional "fatalists." smile

    Therefore, whether we like it or not, but the story does have a subjunctive mood (another question is that this mood is practically useless, I almost agree here, probably))) ...

    Just think for a second about what, from what "bricks" this story is made up. However, here the dispute will turn out to be more philosophical than at least somewhat practical. what
  24. 0
    23 October 2021 01: 04
    Quote: Oleg Valevsky
    I recommend it to anyone who wants to see the world as it really is.

    Is there really such a world? This is only the opinion of the individual. What's this
    Jacques Fresco to listen. Also wordy, with competent terminology, but so far nothing.
    Regardless of the number of past discoveries or inventions.
  25. 0
    23 October 2021 01: 36
    But what if you look at time not as a linear process, but how it really happens in nature? After all, there are cycles and phases in it ... maybe then we will look at history differently? Then it will be clear that there are segments of "predetermination", and there are moments of "permissiveness". Then you don't need to break your brain too much.
  26. +2
    23 October 2021 02: 41
    "The key to studying the laws of the history of society must be sought not in the minds of people, not in the views and ideas of society, but in the mode of production practiced by society in each given historical period - in the economy of society."

    For the history of all preceding human society is the history of the struggle of classes.
  27. -1
    26 October 2021 12: 09
    The author's point of view is clear, but he forgets that any science has two functions: 1) explanatory and 2) predictive. If everything is in order with the explanatory story, then somehow, after Marx, they prefer not to bother with the explanatory story :))) It hurts too scary :). Hence the prevalence of dystopias in the public mind. When was the last time you met a clear optimistic forecast of historical development?
    And, in general, history is: what was, what is and what will be in continuous communication. It is precisely because of this that the concept of "historical process" exists, i.e. phenomena in development. The individual components are interesting in themselves, but meaningless.
    The alternatives are good here in the sense that they try to overcome determinism, but since they do it on retrospective material and, most often, from the point of view of afterthought, they are not convincing.
    It is obvious (IMHO) that both "economic determinism" and "social" delirium are separate. But very few people know dialectical thinking.
  28. 0
    27 October 2021 15: 13
    I could never understand why history does not have a subjunctive mood. This is nonsense and no one can explain why.
  29. 0
    27 October 2021 16: 31
    I had the imprudence to think that it would be about interpretations and suppression of facts and assessments by the parties using specific examples. And it turned out to be some kind of incoherent fiction.
  30. 0
    28 October 2021 14: 18
    Regarding the last picture with "Alternatives".

    We are not talking about any "democratic version". The Provisional Government had no chance, this is proved by its weakness (it did not even control the situation in the capital) and the ease with which this government was overthrown.
    The collapse of the Empire had already taken place, there was no longer a single country.
    Real alternatives: complete disintegration and absorption of pieces by neighbors or a dictatorship with a left (as in reality) or with a right (condo fascism) bias.
    There were no other options then. Perhaps they are not there now.
  31. 0
    28 October 2021 22: 03
    Litvin is not a Lithuanian name.


    I agree that this is how the Slavs of those places defined themselves, and some kept it until the 40-50s of the last century.