There is a chance: Russia reached the final of the Indian tender for the construction of a series of submarines

India has decided on the final four foreign companies admitted to the Indian tender for the construction of a series of non-nuclear submarines for the Navy. Russia has a chance to win the tender, the Russian design bureau "Rubin" reached the final of the competition.

According to the portal navalnews.com, four companies from France, South Korea, Spain and Russia reached the final of the tender, named 75-I. The German ThyssenKrupp Marine Systems (TKMS) was left behind, the reasons for this are not named.

So, the Indians have a choice of: Barracuda class submarines from the French Naval Group, S-80 Plus from the Spanish Navantia, DSME-3000 from the South Korean Daewoo Shipbuilding & Marine Engineering and Amur from the Rubin Central Design Bureau. Moreover, experts give the greatest chance to the French, and the smallest to the Russians. The reason for the fourth place of the Russians is the absence of an air-independent installation, and its presence is one of the main requirements of the Indians. However, it is noted that Russia is offering India a joint development of non-nuclear submarines with the transfer of all technologies, etc., and this is a weighty argument.

The winner of the tender will build submarines in cooperation with two or one Indian enterprises - state-owned Mazagon Dockyard Limited (MDL) and privately-owned Larsen & Toubro Ltd.

When the winner of the tender will be announced, it has not yet been announced, but the first submarine is expected to go to sea no earlier than 2030.

Comments

[Cat Alexandrovich]

Let the Indians order two from all four finalists! I’m no stranger to the zoo! So scary and funnier!

[Real Pilot]

The French have recently gotten into history with Australian boats, and the episode with the Mistrals somewhat spoils their reputation as a reliable supplier.
And exorbitant prices without technology transfer for the Rafali for the Indian Air Force do them no honor ...

However, now for them the victory in this tender may turn out to be a matter of national prestige! And they will not deem it necessary to stop at any corruption, for example.
For the French industry (and Macron personally) to prove that the boats are good and competitive is not only a matter of financial and guarantee of the long-term survival of the industry, but also of confirming oneself in the Australian case. Still, if you bypass such competitors in the competition!

But it is better for us to win ... Look, and at the Indian expense VNEO will appear already for our Navy!

[Alex777]

IMHO, Indians need to work with Koreans.
They will receive boats faster than from all others.
There is no French nuclear submarine, just as there is no Russian one.
The Spaniards were left for the semblance of choice.
The winner will be the lobbying champion.

[KCA]

So they wrote that our boat from VNEU went out for testing, hardly a combat, experimental

[SovAr238A]

Quote: KCA

So they wrote that our boat from VNEU went out for testing, hardly a combat, experimental

There was no such news ...

[KCA]

Was on TV, I watch him with his back because of the computer, maybe I did not hear it and so far they only lowered her into the water

[Zaurbek]

This can be done in the Russian Federation ...

[Archon]

No, it's better to have everything from the French, and then they will throw them halfway and buy American ones.

[Thrifty]

Well, if for Indians an air-independent installation is a critical requirement, then we are definitely flying past the contract!

[SaLaR]

well, who knows ... there is always a chance .. ,,, because this is INDIA ............ country of elephants and great corruption

[mark1]

Quote: Thrifty

Well, if for Indians an air-independent installation is a critical requirement, then we are definitely flying past the contract!

And we (Hindus) whisper in their ears languidly - "WOW" ... and they will flow ...

[Grandfather]

Quote: Thrifty

Well, if for Indians an air-independent installation is a critical requirement, then we are definitely flying past the contract!

then Pakistan will buy out of spite ...

[Artyom Karagodin]

These can. Although the possibility of joint creation of VNEU with the transfer of all documentation is a very cool trump card. If I were Indian, I would stop at this option. Even regardless of the fact that I am Russian))))

[Andrei from Chelyabinsk]

Quote: Artyom Karagodin

Although the possibility of joint creation of VNEU with the transfer of all documentation is a very cool trump card. If I were Indian, I would stop at this option.

The whole question is that we, it seems, will never master VNEU

[Artyom Karagodin]

That is why we offer the Indians to catch up. Is not it so?
In general, there is a question. Since some of the leaders in the construction of nuclear submarines, the Japanese abandoned VNEU, do we need this technology? Can't we come up with something of our own?

[SovAr238A]

Quote: Artyom Karagodin

That is why we offer the Indians to catch up. Is not it so?
In general, there is a question. Since some of the leaders in the construction of nuclear submarines, the Japanese abandoned VNEU, do we need this technology? Can't we come up with something of our own?

The Japanese were not leaders in VNEU.
The installations installed on Soryu are Swedish. Made in Japan under license.

[bayard]

Quote: Artyom Karagodin

Since some of the leaders in the construction of nuclear submarines, the Japanese abandoned VNEU, do we need this technology? Can't we come up with something of our own?

Here we have everything rests on the reliability and durability of lithium-ion batteries. For trolleybuses / electric buses and other civilian equipment, it is already being done, but this is on the ground, when in the event of an emergency you can jump out and run away. But on the submarine, the example of "Losharik" is apparently not in a hurry to repeat. After all, LIAB worked with us ... Chubais ... Therefore, we expect the result.
On the other hand, if it were possible to implement a submarine with multiples of more capacious batteries, then no VNEU would be needed for nothing. The Japanese were able to. Koreans have recently been able to ...
And we have appointed Chubais so that they EXACTLY COULD NOT.
And they couldn't.
And so it would be good ...

[Artyom Karagodin]

And where to power these batteries? I'm just an amateur, so if you know, educate.

[Alex777]

Quote: Artyom Karagodin

Where to power these batteries?

They are charged from a diesel engine if LIAB.

[Artyom Karagodin]

Thank you ... But one more clarifying question. At the same time, diesel thunders half an ocean. Or does LIAB provide an opportunity not to do this for a long time?

[Alex777]

Quote: Artyom Karagodin

Or does LIAB provide an opportunity not to do this for a long time?

LIAB charges significantly faster.
The Japanese have an autonomy of 14 days.
Against 10 days on boats with VNEU.
VNEU, as it were, is also not silent.

[Artyom Karagodin]

Thank you for clarifying the situation. I even remembered something that I managed to forget))))

[Flooding]

Quote: Andrey from Chelyabinsk

The whole question is that we, it seems, will never master VNEU

On September 24, on vpk.name from an interview with Vladimir Korolev, Deputy General Director of USC for military shipbuilding, for TASS:

- When, finally, will the first prototype of a domestic submarine with an air-independent power plant for non-nuclear submarines be built?

- Work on the creation of a prototype shipboard VNEU is being carried out by the Ministry of Industry and Trade. CDB "Rubin" is working on experimental design work to create a compartment for an air-independent electrical installation. The installation itself has already been created, all physical principles have been implemented. It remains only to put all this in one room. By the way, this is also a rather difficult job.

[Andrei from Chelyabinsk]

Quote: Flood

Work on the creation of a prototype shipboard VNEU is being carried out by the Ministry of Industry and Trade. CDB "Rubin" is working on development work to create a compartment for an air-independent electrical installation

Ruby won't.

[Boa kaa]

Quote: Andrey from Chelyabinsk

we, it seems, will never master VNEU

Andrew,
It seems to me that the whole point is that the development of VNEU is not entrusted to those ...
The task should be set for ROSATOM .. and everything will be done - exactly and on time! As it happened more than once in our history with the most complex engineering projects.

[Niko]

Quote: Andrey from Chelyabinsk

Quote: Artyom Karagodin

Although the possibility of joint creation of VNEU with the transfer of all documentation is a very cool trump card. If I were Indian, I would stop at this option.

The whole question is that we, it seems, will never master VNEU

It's time to buy technology like the Indians, but "pride" gets in the way.

[Aviator_]

The whole question is that we, it seems, will never master VNEU

In the 50-60s, boats from VNEU were already part of our fleet - project 615. Received the unofficial name "lighters".

[jonht]

Hello Andrey. According to VNEU, there are two working prototypes, but the trouble is not one that does not meet the requirements of the Ministry of Defense, the reasons are not announced, but it seems that they do not meet the requirements for power and dimensions. Rubin's project is in a better state, but they also take up a lot of space (volume). So we will wait, maybe they will bring it to mind.

[Klingon]

Plus a delicious price! Russian submarine will be released much cheaper

[fa2998]

Yes, if in the scheme presented in the article the scale is correct, then the submarines are completely different. Our smallest, French in terms of displacement, loses by a factor of 2.

[TermNachTer]

Now there is a tendency of rejection of VNEU, a return to diesel-electric submarines, but with a lithium-ion battery. So there is a chance. In general, the competition will be won by the one who brings the most to the Indian cabinets)))

[Artyom Karagodin]

According to the behest of grandmother Siranush, "I came, yes, to the office, I made my own na-na-technologies, and everything is harash"))))

[TermNachTer]

In addition to the donkey, sorry elephant loaded with gold, Russia has two more advantages. 1. "Varshavyanki" are already in the Indian Navy, there will be no problems with retraining crews. 2. Transfer of some technologies and construction at Indian shipyards. I think the Indians have not yet forgotten how the French "naparil" them with the transfer of technology, when buying "rafal"))))

[SovAr238A]

Quote: TermNachTER

Now there is a tendency of rejection of VNEU, a return to diesel-electric submarines, but with a lithium-ion battery. So there is a chance. In general, the competition will be won by the one who brings the most to the Indian cabinets)))

This is not a trend.
These are just two Japanese boats.
For 20 years they have been creating a safe, in their opinion, LIAB ...
Others still cannot.

Have you already forgotten the situation with Losharik?

VNEU will remain the main segment of non-nuclear submarines for the next 20 years.

[TermNachTer]

South Korea is already building such a boat. I think that the Japanese are not the stupidest guys, others will start after the Gimi.

[maksbazhin]

If this is a critical requirement, how did we get to the finals?

[tralflot1832]

There are no options for us, the French will "win" for Australia. The elephant with the money is on its way. Everyone is happy except us.

[atalef]

Quote: tralflot1832

The elephant with the money is on its way, everyone is happy except us.

And that there are already no elephants in Russia? Or is the word rollback in the Russian Federation unknown? (If so)

[tralflot1832]

In India, Russia has run out of elephants with money! Judging by the lost tenders. And rightly so. India will play enough with the West, will return to us. Indira Gandhi (the deceased) will not let me lie.

[atalef]

Quote: tralflot1832

.India will play enough with the west, will return to us.

or yes or no

Quote: tralflot1832

Indira Gandhi (deceased) will not let you lie.

the dead have no shame.

[VORON538]

Why don't I see Israel on the list of applicants? Atalef, why are you not participating in the tender? India is unworthy of Israeli (or Ukrainian, where many supposedly native Israelis come from) submarines? Ugh, how can you! India pays with money, not hryvnia. Or do you just have nothing to offer?

[DymOk_v_dYmke]

Quote: VORON538

Why can't I see Israel on the list of applicants? Atalef, why aren't you participating in the tender?

They buy from Germany themselves.

[SovAr238A]

Quote: VORON538

Why don't I see Israel on the list of applicants? Atalef, why are you not participating in the tender? India is unworthy of Israeli (or Ukrainian, where many supposedly native Israelis come from) submarines? Ugh, how can you! India pays with money, not hryvnia. Or do you just have nothing to offer?

You tried to bite Israel ...
Attention is the question, whose radars are on the Indian A-50?
Whose sea and land-based air defense systems India purchased?
And on what ships will they be installed, and what existing air defense systems will they change?

[Rusticolus]

There are no options for us, the French will "win" for Australia.

Then not the French, but the South Koreans. And the French, the Americans, are again moved. The United States needs the Inus cow itself. After the story with the mistrals, the French are confidently moving into the category of endured.

[donavi49]

The Koreans have cheating 6 MRBMs on board. This is not for you to shoot with calibers from a TA. Plus it is the second country in the world with a serial boat powered by Li-ion batteries.

[lucul]

The Koreans have cheating 6 MRBMs on board. This is not for you to shoot with calibers from a TA.

And nothing that Russia, according to the agreement, the MRBM was forbidden to have? )))

[SVD68]

Quote: lucul

And nothing that Russia, according to the agreement, the MRBM was forbidden to have? )))

Not in this case. All ballistic missiles on submarines are classified as SLBMs.

[Lara Croft]

Quote: SVD68

Not in this case. All ballistic missiles on submarines are classified as SLBMs.

And why does the Russian Federation (as well as the PRC, USA, France, Great Britain) need medium-range SSBNs, if it has - intercontinental SSBNs, SSGNs and PLEDs with medium-range SLCMs? That was?

[donavi49]

1) The contract is already dead.
2) Even in the agreement on naval carriers, put as many missiles as you want, what kind of missiles you want. Strategic constraints are another treaty.
3) In the format of a hypothetical order by the Indians with an option for 6 missiles, then their K-SLBM will have to be cut to 300 km (now 500 announced). Everything else is a completely white deal, that is, it does not contradict any contracts. And if the ROE with the USC and the missilemen make a naval Iskander and a boat for it, this will also not be prohibited now and not even previously prohibited under the DRMSD.

[Lara Croft]

Quote: donavi49

And if the ROE with USC and missilemen make a sea Iskander and a boat for it, this will also not be prohibited now and not even previously prohibited by the DRMSD.

Not at all. Many countries are holding back the Wassenaar Accords, incl. transfer of missile technology ... Yes, and the United States is holding back South Koreans to develop their missile technology ...

[Cowbra]

The case when it is not clear which is better - to win the tender or to lose. Partners of them are still the same as from the French. They have more in total, for free - then they will think for 20 years and eventually change their minds

[URAL72]

The increase in the price of the French project for Australia, with the subsequent loss of it, should lead the Indians to conclusions that are very sad for France. Spain had very serious problems with the construction of the S-80, the risk is great, technology, including missile technology, is lacking. Russia has been fighting its own VNEU for a long time and stubbornly, that is, it has technology. Perhaps Indian developments and money will benefit both countries, besides, we have been transferring very serious technologies to India for decades, being a reliable partner. We have influence on China. We do not overstate the prices. Our chances are much higher than most people think.

[Aviator_]

The case when it is not clear which is better - to win the tender or to lose. Partners of them are still the same

Our office has dealt with these Indians several times already. So nothing was concluded. Gypsies, one word.

[Alien From]

Hindus know how to bargain. Milk the French out like alpine cows

[tralflot1832]

I urgently change my citizenship, I smear my forehead with whitewash and for negotiations !!!

[Alien From]

In India without this case is nowhere ..... one infection .... do not get carried away)))

[tralflot1832]

I know, no whiskey. Wash your hands, disinfect the glass. The great Grigorovich himself told me at the table.

[Alien From]

My grandfather and grandmother were "disinfected" there for three years

[tralflot1832]

So let's sing our favorite folk song, for the victory of the "French" contract: Jimi, Jimi, acha acha!

[SovAr238A]

Quote: tralflot1832

I know, no whiskey. Wash your hands, disinfect the glass. The great Grigorovich himself told me at the table.

Nothing is needed from what you described.
Just 100 grams of OldMonka for breakfast, lunch and dinner ...
And all will be well.
They lived like this for a whole month.

At first, the first week is cool, even fun

and then very tired.
they gradually reduced the rate and eventually learned to do without 100 grams.

[Eug]

So far, the Frenchies have milked them - for Rafali .. although - how many interested Indians have returned, only they themselves know. I think that Indian Moremans will not want to lag behind Indian flyers.

[Pashhenko Nikolay]

Just an awesome passage. Four out of five reached the final. One of those who made it to the final did not meet the tender requirements at all.

[Cananecat]

Quote: Pashhenko Nikolay

One of those who made it to the final did not meet the tender requirements at all.

This is how they showed us their location.

[Ross xnumx]

There is a chance: Russia reached the final of the Indian tender for the construction of a series of submarines

The most important fight lies ahead. The main thing is that this chance is not unprofitable.

[The leader of the Redskins]

Actually, the news is late. On other resources, it was announced two days ago. With the same pictures. Anyway!
Have you already danced with tambourines? Haven't started yet?
I will not be a seer - I will be a spectator!

[Ross xnumx]

Quote: Leader of the Redskins

Actually, the news is late.

And here everything is either late, or it suddenly turns out that the news is fake ...

[The leader of the Redskins]

This is probably why I climb other sites as well. Although earlier, five years ago, VO was like a discovery for me: so many interesting articles on technology and history! ...

[Ross xnumx]

Quote: Leader of the Redskins

Although earlier, five years ago, VO was like a discovery for me:

After 2011, I already confidently broke off the legs of the "Spider" and decided to buy the first laptop. He was engaged in communication, contests and other disputes and games on "X-Torrents.org", where he managed to get the user's hand. It was then that I drew attention to "VO" and even gave some links from articles. The solidity and seriousness of the site kept me in anticipation of gaining experience and freedom of communication. In 2014 I decided to register for VO.
For some "motherly words" he was seized and expelled in disgrace. Today I see that some users of "VO" have weakened their love for their native language, the set of words by Ellochka the cannibal has been adopted, and few are at risk of widespread posts and explanations.

[Voltsky]

It is necessary to decide whether the Russian Federation proposes to cut the development of VNEU with India for two ?! And what else is attributed to the secret column, because one way or another, all the developers will offer certain buns just to choose them, and preferably at a higher price.
+ do not forget about hydrogen fuel cells, for now they are the future

[Aag]

Quote: Voletsky

It is necessary to decide whether the Russian Federation proposes to cut the development of VNEU with India for two ?! And what else is attributed to the secret column, because one way or another, all the developers will offer certain buns just to choose them, and preferably at a higher price.
+ do not forget about hydrogen fuel cells, for now they are the future

I am worried about something else - in addition, the Russian Federation is ready, as stated in the article, - to accompany this action by "draining" technologies ... (?!) ... Just to sell?
What if they buy one or two just for the sake of the whole escort? ..
And somehow, IMHO, a dubious idea to build for sale when your Fleet needs to be saturated, especially with such a partner as India (especially considering relations with China) ... ((((

[Voltsky]

1. Relatively thinking people work there.
2. Nobody and nothing - I heard about this, called isolationism, not one state has led to anything good.
3. All partners are wolves, it's time to put up with it, and given their disputes with China, we will take them into account and leave them to figure it out

[Aag]

Quote: Voletsky

1. Relatively thinking people work there.
2. Nobody and nothing - I heard about this, called isolationism, not one state has led to anything good.
3. All partners are wolves, it's time to put up with it, and given their disputes with China, we will take them into account and leave them to figure it out

"... All partners are wolves, it's time to put up with it, and given their disputes with China, we will take them into account and leave them to sort it out ..."
Well if so ...
I am afraid that it will be worse than before (T-90, Su-shki ... have not yet been erased from memory, it seems that they cost the people of the Russian Federation a lot ...). ...
According to Su, (I have been living in Irkutsk for a long time), -... so when we signed a contract with the Indians, prices in the city (90s) even went up for seeds!))) Like, the purchasing power of the population has increased! , if you want, - get discouraged (like me), - such a dependence when the privatization of all means of production in a particular region by a group of interested persons (of course, - the "faces" fired back, planted, shifted, - in a word, - "corrected", -for the sake of "centralization" ... (Moscow ...).
... Regarding "thinking people" (your point 1): I am sure that they are far from being stupid! The question is, what, who, do they think and care about?
... No, not an idealist, and, in this case, not a perfectionist, BUT (!), You can somehow combine: personal self-interest, the interests of the Country, the needs of the population ?! ...
Also ... Excuse me, I understand, there are languages ​​where the address to "you" is not accepted, does not exist ...
But, if you please, while we are on a Russian-language site, and do not personally know each other, to support the conversation on "YOU" ... peace".)....

[Lara Croft]

Quote: AAG

What if they buy one, two just for the sake of all the escort? ..

To "Varshavyanka" half a century ago?

[Aag]

Quote: Lara Croft

Quote: AAG

What if they buy one, two just for the sake of all the escort? ..

To "Varshavyanka" half a century ago?

True, not an expert in all the subtleties ...
But you must admit, even in our (ahem, ahem) country, they often squeal, they say, technologies are lost (give me money, let's start anew ...?)
And, at the time of the MARKET (when EVERYTHING is on sale), I am not surprised if I know a part of the production, in this or that volume, will merge ...

[SovAr238A]

Quote: AAG

Quote: Voletsky

It is necessary to decide whether the Russian Federation proposes to cut the development of VNEU with India for two ?! And what else is attributed to the secret column, because one way or another, all the developers will offer certain buns just to choose them, and preferably at a higher price.
+ do not forget about hydrogen fuel cells, for now they are the future

I am worried about something else - in addition, the Russian Federation is ready, as stated in the article, - to accompany this action by "draining" technologies ... (?!) ... Just to sell?
What if they buy one or two just for the sake of the whole escort? ..
And somehow, IMHO, a dubious idea to build for sale when your Fleet needs to be saturated, especially with such a partner as India (especially considering relations with China) ... ((((

Learn the materiel.
Almost all global procurement projects must comply with the "Make in India" principle ... So all technologies must be transferred on a contractual basis.

[Ratmir_Ryazan]

The French will be elected, I would choose them, the Indians do not need the outdated Amur technologies.

[Alien From]

I agree, the French, sadly, are friends with boats and advanced electronics.

[Ross xnumx]

Quote: Ratmir_Ryazan

The French will be chosen, I would have chosen them

Did the bitter experience with the Mistrals teach you nothing?

[Voltsky]

young man everything is simple here, or if you say that the technologies in the Russian Federation are outdated, say that you, it is you, no one can call you, because apart from the competence to create toilet paper, you are incapable, you are not capable of anything. Or do you think other people are so chm-oh-m that you are? :)
which option is correct 1 or 2?

[Lara Croft]

Quote: Voletsky

young man everything is simple here, or if you say that the technologies in the Russian Federation are outdated, say that you, it is you, no one can call you, because apart from the competence to create toilet paper, you are incapable, you are not capable of anything. Or do you think other people are so chm-oh-m that you are? :)
which option is correct 1 or 2?

There may be a third option: the first - your opponent is no longer young, the second -

wm-oh-m

it's you yourself, thirdly - similar French technologies are in development in the Russian Federation .... if you disagree with the last argument, leave the first two for yourself ...

[Prisoner]

If we don’t get the order, then at least we’ll dance.

[Andrei Nikolaevich]

As Comrade Saakhov said, "all this is good. All this is wonderful," but somehow I cannot imagine two "great sea powers" - India and Ukraine. The first ones are always dancing. The second are stealing and begging.

[Sergej1972]

Well, you compared. India has a really powerful fleet.

[Andrei Nikolaevich]

Yes, I understand that it is powerful. But somehow ... how to put it: ,, while there is nothing to brag about. In addition to buying weapons around the world. No achievements. And about the chubatens, I generally keep quiet .. Not given. Not their path. Pig breeding - yes. Poultry - yes. But the fleet is no, categorical.

[demiurg]

Urgently get out from under the cloth WOW-6. And we easily win the competition.
Generally perfect. The egg was unhooked, taken to the Russian Federation for charging. The new one was immediately attached. Hindus go to autonomous systems under water for a couple of months with an eight-node course. No battery or non-nuclear drive can do that.
And in the meantime, to all our Warsaw women to fasten Dollezhal's creation. Instead of silver-zinc lead, batteries will rarely be used anyway.

[singless]

sorry for the French. so they put on the wrong horse. soon they will bow at our feet.

[Sergey3]

And why did the Indians surrender to the air-independent installation? The Japanese, for example, abandoned it. Instead, they supplied lithium batteries, which are lighter and more power hungry.

[SVD68]

The Koreans, which are in the tender, also have no VNEU with lithium batteries.

[Sergei 23]

The paddling pools will win, dodge against the background of the breakdown of the contract, with the kenguryatniks !!!

[Oleg Olkha]

Fuel cells of the Korean company Bumhan Industries were first installed on the Dosan Anchangho submarine and are being offered to India. The second after Siemens, having mastered the operation of Siemens on six submarines of the "Jangbogo" type ...

[Eug]

Amur class - what is this boat? Hypothetical or real?

[SVD68]

This is an export version of the Lada submarine.

[Eug]

That is, real. Well, that raises the odds. Thanks!

[zxc15682]

I don't understand what an air-independent installation means? These are batteries or nuclear power plants. Taking oxygen and hydrogen separately is clearly a weird idea.

[amr]

Quote: Thrifty

Well, if for Indians an air-independent installation is a critical requirement, then we are definitely flying past the contract!

We need to offer them to build nuclear-powered ships together! that's what the Indians would fall for))

[Lara Croft]

Quote: amr

We need to offer them to build nuclear-powered ships together!

We woke up. They are already building them without us.

[isv000]

India has decided on the final four foreign companies admitted to the Indian tender for the construction of a series of non-nuclear submarines for the Navy.

Indeed, India is the homeland of the gypsies! ..

[Radical]

Quote: Andrey from Chelyabinsk

Quote: Artyom Karagodin

Although the possibility of joint creation of VNEU with the transfer of all documentation is a very cool trump card. If I were Indian, I would stop at this option.

The whole question is that we, it seems, will never master VNEU

And why not?

[75 Sergey]

After Australia, the French will tear their ass for the tender.
It’s strange that India didn’t want nuclear

[PROXOR]

All are worn with VNEU as with heavenly manna. But here's the caveat. That the Varshavyanka swim up to turn on the diesel through a snorkel, that other boats with the presence of VNEU cease to be quiet as soon as they start charging the batteries. So why wrinkle .... OPU? It's no easier to focus on developing bigger batteries so that they don't float every 20 hours.

[Wildcat]

Strange story from the beginning.
Why were the Germans - the best - removed? And why did they leave us, although we obviously do not pass according to the requirements? And why aren't the Swedes visible?
IMHO, formally either the Koreans or the Spaniards should win.
But with the Indians, as always, there is an incomprehensible story, what about the tender for fighters, what about the tanks, what about the rifle ... They can drag on for decades, and then rush around and urgently buy without any "tenders", almost second-hand.

How much did they "tender" with the fighters? 20 years old? As a result, now they urgently rushed after Rafals and for, IMHO, "used spare parts" they are buying second-hand Mirages 2000. And it seems that in February 2021 we were asked for information about the supply of Mig 35 and Su 35. "Again 35".

They keep us, IMHO, "for trade". It is unlikely that they will now take Cupid - a boat that does not exist.

And another very interesting question - do we need it, where will the Cupids build? Now, at the very least, yes, old projects, yes, incomprehensible equipment, but we make 626.3 for ourselves and quickly. And if we get in touch with Cupid, won't it be worse for us? Will we "pull" 2 models at the same time in production?

[SVD68]

The boats of the project 677 "Lada" are being built at the Admiralty Shipyard in St. Petersburg. "Cupid" is an export version of "Lada".

[Wildcat]

That is the question: the Admiralty shipyard in St. Petersburg makes both Varshavyanka (quickly) and Lada (as always). Another order will not be a problem?

[Pandiurin]

Quote: Wildcat

Strange story from the beginning.
Why were the Germans - the best - removed?

The Germans are quite self-limiting in terms of arms sales, while other arms exporters usually look mainly at the grandmother. India does not seem to be subject to any restrictions as a country. Therefore, the matter is most likely something else. India is going to build submarines at home, i.e. partially, production should be organized in India, again, they will probably want to get some of the technologies for VNEU, and as you say the Germans are the best at this, most likely the Germans will not want to transfer technology.

But the main disadvantage of Germany, they are very disciplined steel, punished themselves for conducting international exports in violation of the rules that are violated by all countries.
The Germans themselves punished themselves for deals with kickbacks, for financial schemes with money laundering, for fraud in the certification of cars (CO measurements on diesel engines).
Therefore, the Germans are unlikely to expect a legal rollback to the Indians in the transaction.
How can such people be allowed to tender?

[Wildcat]

IMHO, it is the French who worked with the Indians on the Scorpions, and, as it were, not very much with the localization and transfer of technology.
https://bmpd.livejournal.com/3677992.html
The Germans, even with Israel, do not deal with "localizations", they give a finished product and stuff your "gefitle fish" as you want.
Hindus ask too much, IMHO. And the risks are too high, the Germans / Swedes don't want to.

So from the point of view of money and efficiency - it is necessary to take 218SG from the Germans ("do it as smart").
From the point of view of localization, Koreans are good students of the Germans.
From the point of view of "Love for submarines in French. Now after Scorpen one more time, now with VNEU" the French are out of competition.
We - well ... no way, I guess. It was successful - the aircraft carrier and the T90, but this is from what was in the hardware. "From scratch" and "5th generation fighter", and "transport aircraft for the Air Force" - everything flew by. And we do not have a working VNEU.

Rollbacks and submarines don't get along well in this story.

[kig]

It is also necessary to be able to reach the finals without fulfilling "one of the basic requirements" according to VNEU. Probably the asking price beats the presence of the absence. Although, the TTD seems to say that "They can be equipped with air-independent engines. "Hindus are well-known toffees, they will pull for another years ... and they will finally get an air-independent one.
And the Germans did not get there, although they had VNEU.

[Andrey Krasnopoyas]

Our offer is probably the cheapest, unless of course the Indians say something about weapons.

[teptyar]

I think that our further participation in the procurement is only necessary to create the appearance of a competitive struggle. We do not meet the basic requirements. I think it's purely for the French and Koreans to drop the price.