Azarov lit up with a "new" gas idea, or "UkrKubyshka-2"

59
According to the tradition that has developed in recent years, as soon as the first cold days come outside the window, Russia's closest neighbors are beginning to become more actively interested in the issues of gas supplies and gas transit. This year the exception also did not.

The Ukrainian authorities decided to make an offer to Russia and the European Union in terms of creating an international gas consortium. Readers who are used to following the world the newsrelated to the problems of deliveries of Russian hydrocarbons abroad, they will say: wait, is that really news, isn’t the same thing that the Russian side proposed to the Ukrainian side not so long ago? Indeed, it was. True, it was more than eight years ago ...

Then Russia and Ukraine signed an agreement that a commission would be created, the main occupation of which would be participation in the modernization of the Ukrainian gas transmission system. Such a document was signed by the leaders of two states: Vladimir Putin and Leonid Kuchma. At the same time, the Russian president said that in the near future (at the time of 2004), French and Italian businessmen representing Gaz de France and Eni are going to join the international consortium. This consortium had to solve several urgent issues at once: the issue of the so-called unauthorized gas extraction by Ukraine, as well as the stability of gas supplies to Europe at any time of the year, regardless of any apparent conditions. In other words, the agreement took into account literally everything, except for the fall of the meteorite to Earth and the change of power in Ukraine. And, as we all know, the meteorite, thank God, did not fall on our sinful planet, but already in January 2005, a man like Viktor Yushchenko came to power in Ukraine, which for Russian-Ukrainian agreements turned out to be about the same consequences , as the possible fall of a large meteorite ...

As a result, President Yushchenko sent all plans to create an international consortium in the most decisive manner into the trash can, saying that he sees no prospects for an independent Ukraine in it. According to him, Moscow’s “clawed feet” simply want to hog the entire Ukrainian gas transportation system in order to use it exclusively in their own interests without any benefit to official Kiev. And the consortium, thanks to the aspirations of the new Ukrainian leader, was never created then.
Well, well ... - they said in Moscow, - no, no, no. But after all, as in the same Moscow understood, if the situation is left as it was at that time with the transportation of gas to Europe, then no one can guarantee that Kyiv will not continue to “scheduledly” take gas from the pipeline. From the pipe that leads from the territory of Russia to the EU through, as it already happened, the territory of independent Ukraine, led by lovers of orange colors and shades. And the representatives of Gazprom and the Russian authorities had to go, as they say, in a different way. This other way is the development of ideas first, and then the phased implementation of such alternative gas pipelines as the North and South Streams. At the same time, the direct construction of the Nord Stream began in the same 2005, when the Ukrainian authorities rejected the creation of the same international consortium designed to develop the Ukrainian GTS.

And now, as they say, they came to their senses ... Just the other day, the Ukrainian Prime Minister Mykola Azarov either found documents on the creation of a consortium that were crumpled in 2005, or “invented a bicycle” in the paper basket, but in one way or another offered Russia and the European Union to raise a question about consortium discussions on the Ukrainian gas transport system. Many looked at Mr. Azarov with obvious bewilderment: they say, Nikolai, they’ve already passed like that ... But one of the main figures of Ukrainian politics allowed the world community to recognize the importance of considering such an issue. The importance, according to Mykola Azarov, is that if Europeans are going to use exclusively the North and South streams without transit of Russian gas through the territory of Ukraine, then during severe frosts they may experience fuel problems. But if the Europeans in the future will buy gas from Russia, which goes through the Ukrainian territories, then these Europeans, according to the version of the same Mykola Azarov, no winter will be terrified. Why? And because Ukraine has large gas storage facilities, which will become a real panacea for the European consumer in the winter. In other words, Ukraine is going to fill its storage facilities with Russian gas, so that later it will be resold to Europe when the fuel is very tight there. In general, a large Ukrainian reserve - "UkrKubyshka."

It would be quite possible to consider the option if we forget about the fact that the yard is no longer 2005, but 2012, and about the fact that Mykola Azarov offers Europeans and Russians in the new consortium on 33%, respectively. If you are guided by rough mathematical approximations, then you might think that everything is fine: everything seems to be one-third ... But in fact, if the consortium is 100%, while Russia and the EU total 66%, then Kiev turns out to be 34% ... That is, at least a percentage, but more than all the others. A sort of equal partnership in the Azarov way ...

At the same time, the Ukrainian authorities apparently do not want to take into account the fact that gas is Russian, and the consumer is European, and that the role of Ukraine is the role of a respected intermediary, but no more. In this regard, the logic of Ukraine obtaining large preferences (in comparison with other parties) in the same international consortium is completely incomprehensible.

The question arises, why is it now that official Kiev suddenly decided to recall the already pretty forgotten initiative of the Russian authorities of the 2004 model of the year. The situation is quite simple: the official authorities have ceased to pretend that they do not notice the losses suffered by the treasury of Ukraine in connection with alternative ways of supplying Russian gas to Europe. In this case, as they say, better late than never. So, Mykola Azarov decided to raise the issue of the consortium. At the same time, he refers to some calculations, according to which the development of the Ukrainian GTS will cost “only something” in 4,5 billion dollars, but Russia can outnumber 15 billion in South Stream.

But even if we assume that in the Kremlin and in Gazprom, let's say, they will think about the proposal of the Ukrainian authorities, where are the guarantees that other people in Kiev will not come and say (as it was in 2005) that Russia will again trying to tidy up the Ukrainian gas transport cluster to the hands. Unfortunately, no one can give such guarantees in Ukraine today ... Even Azarov ...
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  1. mongoose
    +15
    13 September 2012 09: 25
    Ukraine, in order to somehow survive, and not turn into a European bandan, it is necessary to reunite with the rest of Russia (c) Onotole
    1. +15
      13 September 2012 09: 33
      Someday we’ll probably come to this, but I doubt that this will happen soon. No power will want to lose even part of its authority, and it must be pressed very hard to make it admit the obvious.
      1. Captain Vrungel
        +58
        13 September 2012 10: 35
        It is no secret that 80% of the Ukrainian economy are in the hands of 10 families. It's no secret that 23 billion cubic meters. Ukraine produces gas itself at a price of $ 55, but solders the population at 110. It is no secret that all gas profits settle in offshore zones. It is no secret that these 10 families, practically exempt from taxation, work in their own pocket in the accounts of foreign banks. It is no secret that the government is building not a democratic state of Ukraine, but a leper colony for the lepers of the people of Ukraine. It's no secret that elections are a simple window dressing of crap. Just activating jackals from different flocks alternately capturing the best places at the feeder. (The faces of the candidates for 21 years are the same). It is no secret that there is no state of Ukraine, but there is a territory seized by organized criminal groups. If I'm wrong, throw me a minus. So I misunderstood something in the struggle of the authorities for my well-being and my life color.
        1. maxon109
          +5
          13 September 2012 11: 20
          I would not want to raise a butch, but as long as the Ukrainians will endure this chaos ????
        2. Don
          -1
          13 September 2012 12: 41
          Quote: Captain Vrungel
          It is no secret that these 10 families, practically exempt from taxation, work in their own pocket in the accounts of foreign banks.

          It is no secret that corporations and their factories pay much more taxes than small and medium-sized businesses combined. It's no secret that last year only one Metinvest paid 12 billion UAH to the pension fund. It is no secret that the factories of these corporations have the largest salaries in Ukraine.
        3. 0
          13 September 2012 13: 27
          Vrungel, it’s all good, that’s no secret! Why are you sitting, one asks, if not a secret? Would take all this camarilla for .... and on the edge of the stool.
          1. black_eagle
            +1
            13 September 2012 14: 27
            And we are such a people that we are only able to bazaar, evidence of that, would be more decisive if the remains of the former government would have been chased away, otherwise no, just uncles decided to change chairs with the help of the people, and the people shook it all, they say something I decide, yes no one decides! everyone is afraid of no one cares, Ukrainian folk fun, I’ll hide my hut!
            1. +1
              13 September 2012 15: 38
              Ask ours, they always helped, and now we will help.
        4. 0
          13 September 2012 15: 36
          Make your gangs breathe this very gas, there is not much.
        5. Kuzbass
          0
          13 September 2012 20: 13
          You're right, but I want to believe in a better future for Ukraine! And in general, we live in one, big country, which we call the Former USSR! And I will not let UkrBelRusov slander us! Sorry, minus.
        6. characterization
          +2
          14 September 2012 02: 53
          I fully support you, but some changes have already taken place, some of these bastards are already sitting, it’s necessary to catch the whistler and the whipper of a skater in a place with Akhmet and Firtash, because they spread rot and rob people, it’s time to dump this yoke to nationalize all the enterprises stolen for pennies and reunite with the brothers Russians and Belarus whoever does this will be Bogdan Khmelnitsim 2 and will have respect and respect for him. DICTATURE TO THE PROLITARIAT !!!
    2. spender
      +17
      13 September 2012 09: 40
      Brussels is now putting pressure on Russia, in the sense that Gazprom, taking advantage of its monopoly position, "raises prices" does not let other suppliers in and buys up the assets of gas distribution networks. Ukraine seems to have decided to "snatch" its piece from the "pie", but then Russia threw out another "feint" and now all "shifts" in the foreign market Gazprom is obliged to coordinate actions with the Russian Government:

      Against the violation procedure opened by the European Commission in relation to Gazprom, accused of non-compliance with competition standards in eight countries of Eastern Europe, President Vladimir Putin issued a decree under a rather eloquent title: “Measures to Protect the Interests of the Russian Federation in the Foreign Activities of Russian Companies”.

      The essence of the matter is that companies of strategic importance, including Gazprom, will be able to provide information to authorities and foreign organizations only with the consent of the government or a reputable federal executive body. And not only this. After the start of the violation procedure, the Kremlin erected a wall of legal protectionism around its economic values. Before giving the explanations required by the offices of Commissioner Joaquin Almunia, Gazprom must obtain permission from the government led by Medvedev. But in reality, Putin will make the decision, and this will not be an easy match for Brussels

      So, the challenge is thrown: by its decree Putin pulled Gazprom out of European jurisdiction and shifted the confrontation from an economic to a purely political one. The assurances from Brussels in the past few days that the investigation “was not aimed at Russia, but concerns the conduct of the company,” fell into the void. Putin suspects that Europe wants to blame its crisis on Russia. And he decided to challenge.
      1. +9
        13 September 2012 09: 54
        Quote: spender
        Putin suspects that Europe wants to blame its crisis on Russia. And he decided to challenge.

        Hi Alexei, what should you suspect if you are bogged down in debt and try to solve your problems at the expense of Russia. Rather, it’s an obvious fact. Amer also blames China for their problems, then the European Union. From sick to healthy, only sending them is much easier than agreeing on good.
        1. spender
          +11
          13 September 2012 10: 04
          Quote: Alexander Romanov
          if they are mired in debt and try to solve their problems at the expense of Russia

          Hi Sanya! hi There was a tricky move to admit by the court that Gazprom, using its monopoly position, violated the rules of trade, and then, on this fact, "sue" multibillion-dollar claims from all countries of buyers (practically all of Europe), and then they were a "bummer" and even the agreements with some countries are on the reduction of gas prices, now it is necessary to negotiate again with the government, and there are a dime a dozen opportunities for “dynamo”. then the official is needed on vacation, then Medvedev is on a trip around the country, etc. wink .
          1. +1
            13 September 2012 11: 09
            Quote: spender
            and then they are "bummer"

            Yes, but now we have plunged into the WTO and it is quite possible to start acting through it.
      2. mongoose
        -1
        13 September 2012 11: 49
        nahai crushes, one has been doing this for a whole year, and the results are invisible laughing
      3. +6
        13 September 2012 12: 26
        What kind of pressure Brussels can be talked about. You can only talk about an attempt. At the same time, it’s rather pathetic. Berlin’s position in Europe on the gas issue puts everything in its place The gas consortium train really left 7 years ago. And with the launch of the South Stream, the fate of the Ukrainian gas transportation system is a museum relic.
        And Russia did not drive Ukraine into this corner.
    3. anton107798
      +1
      13 September 2012 22: 00
      Delusional article. The author completely does not understand all aspects of the GTS. The author writes about our storages in such a way that we just found them right now and decided to use them! But in fact, it’s basically and profitable to pump gas through Ukraine, because neither the North nor the South Stream has and will not have a store, but if it’s cold in a cold winter, you can increase the supply only through gas storage! All 20 years of independence have been using Ukrainian storage facilities and not what, everything is fine.
      Now about the GTS ... Say no to but the North and the South flows are not able to pump the volumes that Europe needs ... that is, the lion's share will still be driven through Ukraine. Yesterday’s news on Ukraine: Gazprom valued Ukraine’s gas transportation system at $ 25 billion ... it was valued precisely on the issue of a tripartite consortium. By the way, our specialists were very surprised at the Russians’s assessment, since ours estimated the price of gas transportation system to be about 10 billion cheaper.
  2. +14
    13 September 2012 09: 27
    Is it not better to invest 15 billion in your own than 4,5 billion in someone else's and even very doubtful.
  3. anchonsha
    +5
    13 September 2012 09: 35
    Azarov came up with yet another idea (the earlier rejected proposal of Russia and the EU) about the third chair, where a part of his withered body can be accommodated a little ... True, the train has already left ... The rulers of Ukraine have become completely out of control and were exhausted in initiatives aimed at the possibility of at least somehow profit from a stranger ....
  4. +8
    13 September 2012 09: 39
    Winter is coming soon laughing
    1. ughhh
      +5
      13 September 2012 11: 23
      "And what will you heat in winter with firewood? So you don't have firewood either ..." (c) Putin
    2. +8
      13 September 2012 13: 19
      HUMANOID
      Winter is coming soon

      TA-dah! Stirred their brains.
  5. +6
    13 September 2012 09: 58
    Our countries are like two water bottles, only one with gas the other without


    This is a policy, if Ukraine takes steps to meet Russia, then gas will be at preferential prices, and if not, then no. And jo ... oh, it won’t work here. And then how so, I want a percentage of sales of Russian gas more, but they all look to the west!
  6. +4
    13 September 2012 10: 11
    In Ukraine there are many well-fed democrats who only spit towards Russia and the people are pulling along. Not a simple situation for the authorities who are trying to get closer to Russia.
    And as for the hiding place - do not forget that Ukraine this year will reduce the consumption of Russian gas by opening new deposits and transferring the CHP to its coal.
    1. Captain Vrungel
      +12
      13 September 2012 11: 04
      Do not tell my desires. Power shies from side to side trying to sell itself profitably. Only your beloved ones. And she understands that she can come from both the west and the east.
      And where are these developments of newly discovered deposits, and whose are they? Smartly?
      And which shopping centers were converted to coal? And whose coal? And whose thermal power station? Akhmetova?
      And what did you pay less for gas and electricity? Not. More.
      Yes! It is good to be a patriot of Ukraine for your pocket from the pocket of the people.
      1. Don
        0
        13 September 2012 13: 12
        Quote: Captain Vrungel
        And where are these developments of newly discovered deposits, and whose are they? Smartly?

        Odessa and Kharkov. Belong to NAK Naftogaz.
        Quote: Captain Vrungel
        And which shopping centers were converted to coal? And whose coal? And whose thermal power station? Akhmetova?

        CHP at the expense of Chinese loans and that is not all. Coal is of course ours. Steam coal, thank God, has rich deposits in Ukraine. Here is an interesting opinion:
        http://www.ukrrudprom.ua/digest/TETS_perevodyat_na_ugol_ekonomiya_ne_zamenit_ref
        orm.html
        And why is it bad that these TPPs would be Akhmetov?
        Like it or not, and if we do not want our GTS to turn into a relic, it is not too late to create a consortium with Gazprom or sell part of Naftogaz’s shares.
        1. +3
          13 September 2012 13: 57
          Or maybe it makes sense to dig a pipe, turn it into scrap metal and drink the proceeds with all the people. A couple of drops on the tongue and memories for a year? In the beginning, all the thermal power plants were transferred to gas and shouted how good it was, ecology, etc. But then they said that it’s impossible to put all the eggs in one pocket, it will hurt. Now they realized that it hurts, let's go back to coal. Only let those who made the decision to switch to gas pay for cut equipment and purchase new ones. So it will be at least honest. metal, and now at the expense of the people, let's restore everything backwards. Somehow it doesn’t look good.
    2. mongoose
      +2
      13 September 2012 11: 51
      the situation in Ukraine could be changed by a law similar to ours on NGOs, but they are unlikely to be able to adopt it, because there are no state-ethnic roots
  7. +2
    13 September 2012 10: 48
    They ran in again !!! Every year the same thing. laughing
    1. mongoose
      +1
      13 September 2012 12: 48
      and the truth apparently omen, it worked, when ukroina speaks about gas apparently winter is coming laughing
      1. Graaf
        0
        13 September 2012 13: 41
        Why did you get it? Because I think that insulting another country (in this case, writing ukroin) is the top of rudeness and rudeness. Write correctly, then you will be honored and praised! No one here writes Raska and so on and does not try to humiliate citizens of other countries. This is the height of tactlessness!
        1. mongoose
          -1
          14 September 2012 08: 41
          ignorance? maybe after the antics of human garbage in Lemberg on May 9, I still have to blow you in the ass? there is Russian Ukraine and there is a Khalitsian ukroina, like my ancestors kazaki and descendants of koz kozaki
  8. -1
    13 September 2012 11: 15
    Now for sure ... No consortia ... hi
  9. -6
    13 September 2012 11: 16
    And what did you pay less for gas and electricity? Not. More.
    Yes! It’s good to be a patriot of Ukraine for your pocket

    So you yourself and answered about your only feed think.

    You probably think that everything will be in state ownership - even if they steal further? Akhmetov will not be able to steal, plus everything Akhmetov will carry out modernization, create jobs and pay taxes.
    But in fact there will not be Akhmetov; there will be another comrade unknown even better or worse.
    For gas production, two platforms at the Odessa fields begin to drill. Everything is not done in one day. The state should be built in stages and in political stability otherwise it will be as always. \
    1. Captain Vrungel
      +8
      13 September 2012 12: 09
      This is how the regianals conduct their policy, how you tear quotes and take only what is beneficial to you "Yes! It's good to be a patriot of Ukraine for your pocket (you snatched it. Read on" FROM THE POCKET OF THE PEOPLE "). This is the meanness of your power , your bandits are in power.
      You know, for twenty years you have been feeding-Will. Feed your promises for twenty years. Maybe you already have and still will, if you are from the Akhmetov’s gang, I have no doubt. But for all crimes against the people of Ukraine, they should not sit on golden toilets, but on pine veneers and healthy camp food. Here are the times. Bandits and murderers in the face of the saints erect and prostrate themselves before them. You are our master. Benefactor, breadwinner.
      1. +2
        13 September 2012 14: 10
        Captain Vrungel
        Is it really Dnipropetrovsk or Kiev better. Everyone cares only about their pocket. And the people are not profitable to feed the business, they themselves will want to live, so I don’t know how you have in Odessa, but we have only one Akhmetov plant in Kerch and the Zaliv plant, which used to produce supertankers, is now happy that they are making boxes for the Dutch. The city that gave 25% of the Crimean budget is now subsidized. The Donetsk people, having bought the iron ore complex, cut it into scrap metal, and it employed 5000 people. there is no point. Who does not come to power think only about their pocket. Well, even a pale one with a scythe was imprisoned, maybe something will change after the elections.
      2. Don
        0
        13 September 2012 14: 22
        Quote: Captain Vrungel
        Herein lies the vileness of your power, your bandits in power.

        Where is your evidence that they are bandits? Where are they? The oranges shouted about it, and when the authorities had evidence they could not find and did not put anyone in prison.
        Quote: Captain Vrungel
        Feed your promises for twenty years.

        Twenty Years Party of Regions in Power? Are you confusing anything ?! Do not grind nonsense.
        Quote: Captain Vrungel
        But for all crimes against the people of Ukraine, they should not sit on golden toilets, but on pine veneers and healthy camp food.

        What are these crimes? Probably the fastest growth rate in Europe in 2002-2004? Or adjusting the economic situation in the country after the crisis of 2009? Or can inflation be kept within normal limits?
        Quote: Captain Vrungel
        Bandits and murderers in the face of the saints erect and prostrate themselves before them.

        I don’t fall on my knees before anyone and don’t lift anyone into the face of saints, but I simply respect people who have done a lot of good for their cities, factories and people. They didn’t let the factories collapse and even worked during the crisis and paid people salaries Skudar, Boyko, Zvyagilsky, the same Akhmetov.
        1. +2
          13 September 2012 20: 37
          Quote: Don
          Where is your evidence that they are bandits? Where are they? The oranges shouted about it, and when the authorities had evidence they could not find and did not put anyone in prison.

          Having SUCH BUTTERFLIES (and money in Ukraine is power), you can reliably hide any evidence. Yes, and unwritten rules - money separately, politics - separately, acted between the clans. Before the arrest of Yulia. The fact is that Donetsk afterwards have some incriminating evidence competitors. This is a double-edged weapon.
          Quote: Don
          Twenty Years Party of Regions in Power? Are you confusing anything ?! Do not grind nonsense.

          Not the PR, but the liberal-dermocratic anti-people regime, which allows pockets at the expense of the people and the state to political forces and regular temporary workers.
          Quote: Don
          What are these crimes? Probably the fastest growth in Europe in 2002-2004? Or the improvement of the economic situation in the country after the crisis of 2009? Or maybe keeping inflation within the normal range? Quote: Captain Vrungel

          The collapse of working enterprises and their sale in scrap metal can only be shot for. And the pace of economic growth and the establishment of the economic situation did not affect the income of most ordinary citizens of Ukraine. We spent almost all of our income on food and communal services in 2002, and nothing not changed in 2012.
          Quote: Don
          Or can inflation be kept within normal limits?

          And by what means was this achieved? 5 hryvnias in half a year, an increase to the salary? It was carried out at the expense of us ordinary citizens, although the oligarchs have much more money. But this is sacred, honestly earned ...
          Quote: Don
          I respect people who have done a lot of good for their cities, factories and people. They didn’t let the factories collapse and even worked during the crisis and paid people salaries Skudar, Boyko, Zvyagilsky, the same Akhmetov.

          Yes, they did it for themselves, and only a fraction of themselves, their loved ones! And enterprises that were unnecessary to them personally were destroyed and turned into scraps. Beneficiaries, damn it.
        2. characterization
          0
          14 September 2012 03: 19
          There is a movie called the criminal occupation of Ukraine google see and draw conclusions I emphasize I don’t understand the true face of this gang from Donetsk former butchers who drowned in the blood of all people they didn’t like about Uncle Akhmetov and those who are now in power by the way our zavgar a henchman also flashed there among those people, that’s why Putin doesn’t want to get closer to them because he knows that there will be no trust with bandyukas and there will be no trust in business. Ukraine needs a new Bogdan Khmelnitsky
      3. black_eagle
        +3
        13 September 2012 14: 32
        Yushchenko and Tymoshenko came to power, they took Krivorozhstal away from Akhmetov, gave him 4 billion and a farewell, well, but then they sold some kind of Indian Krivorozhstal for 25 billion, the question is, where is the money? And the answer is interesting! The Ministry of Finances sends it to the Accounts Chamber, guessing where it sends the Accounts Chamber? Right! To the Ministry of Finance! All! By grandmother! Everyone is satisfied, full! This is right! It’s better to let the chocks dominate the country, but take a bunch from your own, such examples, do not read the table of contents, you always need to dig a little deeper!
    2. Don
      0
      13 September 2012 13: 13
      Quote: nitrid
      Akhmetov will not succeed in stealing, plus Akhmetov will carry out modernization, create jobs and pay taxes.

      Totally agree with you. Unlike Kolomoisky, I trust him and SCM.
      1. Eraser
        0
        13 September 2012 17: 10
        Well, you probably trust it, because you yourself are from Donetsk. wink But we must not forget that almost everything that he has now was built by our fathers and grandfathers, and by hook or by crook privatizing this property, he paid a penny to the budget for it. I certainly understand that there is no other way out, like privatization, but still An example of Kryvyi Rih was when those 4 billion dollars were earned for one! The factory turned out to be equal to everyone! funds received for all previous years of privatization. Well, that’s what it is, it’s clear that Akhmetov didn’t have that kind of money, but this is not a reason to sell state property cheaper, like during the first competition, isn’t it? That is, I’m trying to say that it’s not we, as the people of Ukraine, or you, as a representative of Donbass, who are obligated to bow to him, but he owes us his status as the richest Ukrainian and let his property work for us, and not because it is encrypted offshore. It turns out that Racing with other oligarchs, he is trying to bite off bigger pieces, but he does not have enough money for investments in everything. For example, he owns almost all Kyivenergo, but he doesn’t have money to replace pipes, so I’m happy for such an investor, outages with hot water , all the yards are dug up. So that's it.
        1. black_eagle
          -1
          13 September 2012 18: 03
          It is better to know the enemy in person than not to suspect that people or an organization that you trust use you as a consumable item, at least the blue ones do not deny and do not build martyrs out of themselves, in short they behave more or less like men
    3. +1
      13 September 2012 20: 19
      Quote: nitrid
      Akhmetov cannot steal
      Well, still. Try to steal what has already been stolen from the state. All that was created by a whole nation for EVERYONE has been scattered by a bunch of bandits, and now they are screaming that they have all been earned by overwhelming labor.
      Dear moderators, please return the Ukrainian flag to me, I am from Ukraine.
  10. +1
    13 September 2012 12: 41
    Question to you Vrungel - whom to put at the helm?
    I will answer SOME.
    Bandits and murderers in the face of the saints erect and prostrate themselves before them. You are our master. Benefactor, breadwinner. - It's not about me )
    And it seems to me that you have revised political advertisements about gold toilets.
    You take everything too close to the heart. - Cool. I'm not your enemy. I am the same citizen of Ukraine as YOU and I want stability and prosperity.
    The question is how to come to this - constantly pouring mud on each other as the opposition does or rolling up their sleeves to start working in their own places as a real patriot.
    Right now, it’s fashionable for us to say what the country has done for me — WHAT DO YOU DO FOR THE COUNTRY?
    1. 0
      13 September 2012 15: 54
      What have you done for the country? (
      nitrid) the country itself will not allow its citizens to do anything against bandits and murderers, because who controls it? think comrades correctly, they are the most.
      1. 0
        13 September 2012 18: 52
        Quote: Dictator
        the country itself will not allow its citizens to do anything against bandits and murderers

        Consume orange information less, think more and form YOUR OWN assessment. And then blurt out ....
    2. Captain Vrungel
      0
      14 September 2012 07: 39
      We would be glad to roll up our sleeves and work for our country. Remained a trifle. WHERE. At the stalls, markets and bazaars? Without formalization? For the handout? Janitor? Where two people take on one bet, and the second goes to the boss.
      Is this patriotism in your workplace? Criminality seized power. He crushed the police, the prosecutor’s office, and the courts. The army collapsed, seeing in it a potential threat. He increased the punitive forces in the system of the Ministry of Internal Affairs to unreasonable limits. And that you call my country? And is it stability and prosperity? Stoking east-west confrontation with one goal, to prevent the people from uniting, realizing that their people will sweep.
      And there will be no Bogdan Khmelnitsky, Dubrovsky will not appear. We will continue to "hinder their lives" turning into serfs and slaves and hope that this mess will get tired of our northern neighbor and, as happened historically, "he will come at a difficult moment and say. Well, guys! We played in independence and independence. and pratsyuvaty on the revival of a strong union of three fraternal, rather blood, republics. ”There is no other way - HISTORICALLY.
      1. Captain Vrungel
        0
        14 September 2012 09: 47
        Wide estuaries, flowering chestnuts
        They will hear again the rustle of the unfurled banners,
        When it comes back in, gait minted
        In the beautiful Odessa guard battalion.
  11. 0
    13 September 2012 12: 53
    Not gas pipelines need to be built, but liquefaction plants and tankers. (like Qatar). So that the head does not hurt about various intermediaries.
  12. +9
    13 September 2012 13: 03
    Ukraine is totally not rushing in the years following the collapse of the USSR ..
    1. Kravchuk - a traitor to his people (Bialowieza carrion and nuclear shield sold)
    2. Kuchma - a thief and a rag (a thief to all thieves)
    3. Yushchenko - a traitor and a thief (pro-Western, Bendery extortion)
    4 Yanukovych - a bandit and a thief ...
    Accordingly, all governments under the above-mentioned presidents behaved accordingly ..
    In Russia, even though the president finally appeared intelligible, in Ukraine this vicious circle does not stop until the village .. smile
    1. 0
      13 September 2012 13: 34
      Ukraine is totally not rushing in the exercise of sitting one jo .. oh on two, three chairs. And also in trading thereof on three sides - Amerikosy, Russia and the European Union. Only under Yushchenko they seemed to have decided, but it didn’t work out either, well, the people of the border region cannot lie under the Americans. so Kumov, come to us, to the Empire!
      1. 0
        13 September 2012 15: 57
        Wertynskiy gentlemen, comrades are right, come back to us, then we will pour it all.
    2. general
      -4
      13 September 2012 18: 36
      "In Russia, even though the president finally appeared intelligible" - you write very funny stuff negative
      Justify to me the intelligibility of your second (!!!!) preza for 20 years (Medvedev himself we don’t understand)
    3. Morgan stanley
      -4
      13 September 2012 21: 14
      Quote: Dema239
      1. Kravchuk - a traitor to his people (Bialowieza carrion and nuclear shield sold)

      Kravchuk said that if he knew what would happen next, he would never have signed it, and he simply did not keep the course of the USSR. It would not have been possible to maintain the nuclear shield, since there was still no normal budget, tax system, and so on, there would have been no money to support all these years while building the nuclear weapons control panel in Kiev, since the console was in Moscow, it’s necessary new.
      Quote: Dema239
      2. Kuchma - a thief and a rag (a thief to all thieves)

      Kuchma is currently the best president of Ukraine, over his years, Ukraine had such a growth rate of GDP that all sorts of EUs and the Russian Federation, along with China, saliva flowed around.
      Quote: Dema239
      3. Yushchenko - a traitor and a thief (pro-Western, Bendery extortion)
      He was not lucky with Tymoshenko, she betrayed him, and he also did not have authority.
      Quote: Dema239
      4 Yanukovych - a bandit and a thief ...

      At least it's better than Tymoshenko.
      1. -1
        14 September 2012 10: 48
        Quote: MorganStanley
        Kuchma is currently the best president of Ukraine, over his years, Ukraine had such a growth rate of GDP that all sorts of EUs and the Russian Federation, along with China, saliva flowed around.

        And why didn’t we, ordinary citizens of Ukraine, feel this? Yes, because under Kuchma 5 city-forming enterprises of our city were collapsed and cut out of 6. That's where this growth came from. And all the profit from the sales went into the pockets of his family.
  13. +1
    13 September 2012 13: 28
    I agree with the author that the closer to winter, the more one “place” among the ruling circles of Ukraine jerks. As for the consortium, in my opinion, it makes no sense for Russia to join it right now, when the Nord Stream is being completed and the construction of the Yuzhny is beginning. Colossal funds have been invested in construction, now will you order them to be abandoned? But not only Russia is tied there, the money was given by Germany and Italy, in exchange for receiving a discount on gas, corresponding long-term agreements have been signed, now what, to denounce them? In addition, Ukraine also signed a long-term agreement with Russia until 2019, according to which Ukraine undertakes to buy gas from Russia at a specified amount and at a specified price. For violation of this agreement, penalties are provided, and quite significant ones. In fact, the gas transportation system of Ukraine is now of no interest to anyone except Ukraine, the train, as they say, has left, one should have thought earlier, at least a couple of years ago, now this system can only be prepared to be scrapped, or used for domestic use, and even then after the appropriate modernization, after all, jokes are bad with gas, this is an object of increased danger, and since this gas pipeline has been in operation for more than a dozen years, then all the safety resources have long been depleted and it is necessary to change pipes, valves, gas pumping stations, and instrumentation, and automation. It is good that Soviet products are made with a safety margin, but it is not endless either. As for the storage tanks, which Ukraine is so flaunting, they will be built in Bulgaria, a corresponding agreement has been signed about this. And the whole point of these alternative gas pipelines, which are being built bypassing Ukraine, boils down to circumventing Ukraine as an unpredictable territory that poses a threat to the uninterrupted supply of gas from Russia to Western Europe. Is Azarov so "stupid" that he cannot understand this?
    1. 0
      13 September 2012 19: 13
      Quote: bistrov.
      As for the storage tanks with which Ukraine is so flaunting, they will be built in Bulgaria,

      Laughing !!! Ukrainian storage facilities are underground voids - former fields, from which gas was previously pumped out. To replace them, it is necessary to evict everyone from Bulgaria and build storage facilities "all the time".
      Azarov is a very sober economist and the experience of previous years shows that during peak frosts, gas pipelines do not bleed, Europe freezes even with storage facilities. And the farther the colder (Gulfstream, escaped). The game here is justified, throw away the storage facilities of Ukraine and there will be no one to sell gas (freeze nafig).
      And Ukraine does not resell gas, but only transports and stores.
      1. 0
        14 September 2012 00: 02
        Quote: Genry
        Ukrainian storage is underground voids - former deposits
        You, colleague, first figure it out, and then "wave a saber". Gazprom leases UGS facilities in many Western European countries, including Germany, Great Britain, Austria, etc. In addition, UGS facilities are currently under construction in Serbia and Bulgaria. To build an UGS facility does not mean digging a hole, erecting some kind of "barrel", but creating gas-pumping and shut-off equipment, etc. using cavities for this not only from under the gas, as you correctly noted, but also from under water, salt and other natural and artificial cavities. Secondly, who told you that it will get colder further, the entire scientific world is repeating about global warming, in Greenland almost all the ice has melted, in the Kherson and Nikolaev regions they have already defined the climate as dry subtropics, do not frighten people, these are one-time fluctuations in temperature that always happen from time to time, in addition, do not make a panacea out of the Ukrainian UGS facilities, they will definitely find a replacement for them, but still agree that this winter, when unusually cold weather set in Ukraine, it was necessary to intensively take gas from the gas transmission system that transported gas to the west, which - so as not to freeze, which is why there was not enough gas in Europe. Objections that the gas was taken from the storage facilities are not accepted, since these storage facilities are located in western Ukraine and in order to pump gas to the east, the pipeline would have to be started in reverse mode, which is impossible in this situation. Thus, Ukraine actually became the culprit for the shortage of gas in Europe. As for the unauthorized selection and resale of gas, such cases have previously occurred in Ukraine all the time, and money from the resale of gas fell into private pockets, and then at the end of the year Ukraine paid for it from public funds. In fact, you and I paid for this, and the dollars were taken by Yushchenko from Tymoshenko. Remember that it was in 2006, 7, 8.
        1. 0
          14 September 2012 01: 13
          Quote: bistrov.
          in order to pump gas to the east we would have to start the gas pipeline in reverse mode, which is impossible in this situation

          Gas accounting, roughly speaking, is made at the border. Therefore, taking gas for itself from the pipeline in the east, in the west it is replenished from the storage facility for transit to Europe (electricity is sold similarly).

          Quote: bistrov.
          Yushchenko and Tymoshenko took the dollars. Remember it was the same in 2006, 7, 8
          During these years, gas metering was already established, stealing from the mains was no longer possible. Therefore, an intermediary company "RosUkrEnergo" was created, which legally siphoned money from Ukraine and shared it with USchenko and Co. Now, with the destruction of RosUkrEnergo, small intermediaries are stealing by selling gas at reduced pressure or diluting it with non-combustible impurities.
  14. Nechai
    0
    13 September 2012 13: 32
    Quote: ughhh
    "And what will you heat in winter with firewood? So you don't have firewood either ..." (c) Putin

    He forgot about roofing felts, he doesn’t know roofing felts, he doesn’t take roofing felts into account.
    Quote: Alexander Romanov
    Yes, but now we got into the WTO and quite possibly will start act through it.

    Already, Alexander, have begun. Since September 12.09.2012, 10 Russian airlines receive fuel at a price XNUMX% more expensive. Now, sometimes, OUR DOMESTIC prices are higher than world prices, the adherents of their introduction have simply evaporated. But how they sang !!! Like it’s worth coming at such energy prices and we will all have Paradise. But the arctic fox comes instead ... Well, Paradise, for a narrow circle of people, opened the gate much earlier. Yes, they actually never came out of it .....
    1. -2
      13 September 2012 15: 59
      So close the doors of paradise, he who doesn’t want to go back anyway.
    2. 0
      14 September 2012 19: 20
      So that there was a dung, you need a solid population of vrh, and with this also not ice fool we’ll get warm than we have to
  15. +1
    13 September 2012 13: 36
    yes, it’s better to invest in your own designs and in yourself, because our Ukrainian colleagues have already lost their trust in their time ....
  16. cypr-igor
    +3
    13 September 2012 15: 18
    Good afternoon everyone! I really liked the passage about (Ukraine lost confidence) I remember last winter things, I just hinted at the price of gas for next year, right away (Ukraine steals gas!) They just started talking about sharing the pipe, right from Russia shouted, no consortiums for three, only two, but the money for modernization, shish! I understand everything, we have our own propaganda, you have your own, but I think exchanging opinions at least on this site will somehow come to the truth. In our relations (well, between countries) there should be less behind-the-scenes affairs — there will be a faster path to unification. Industrial cooperation does not mean one ate the other. While I observe pressure on many issues, it’s sad!

    I just wrote a comment and immediately today in Vzglyad I read, Ukraine submitted an application for a smaller amount of gas for this year. And immediately on the same page- (Head of Rospotrebnadzor, Chief State Sanitary Doctor of Russia Gennady Onishchenko threatened with harsh measures against Ukrainian cheese makers, if they will supply low-quality products to the Russian Federation.) Keyword (if!) Here's a movie!
    1. 0
      13 September 2012 18: 40
      and what to do -economics
    2. +3
      13 September 2012 19: 29
      Quote: kipr-igor
      Onishchenko threatened tough measures against Ukrainian cheese makers

      I am from Kiev, I don’t buy Ukrainian cheese. I got this dust with non-standard acid and salinity! I take German or Polish, at the same price, practically.
  17. +4
    13 September 2012 16: 15
    Bullied with your gas! Honestly !! Already sick of the name itself !!! We have nothing to share with you !!!!!!!! Let the oligarchs bite themselves!
  18. sxn278619
    0
    13 September 2012 17: 37
    It is necessary to help the Ukrainian people.
    How?
    Sell ​​Gazprom the local GTS with an obligation not to raise prices for 30 years.
  19. 0
    13 September 2012 18: 56
    All Yushchenko’s games with gas are strongly reflected in the budget of Ukraine! But it took 8 years to recognize it. Another 5 years, the gas transmission system can be turned over for scrap. I think it will happen
  20. 0
    13 September 2012 21: 26
    In general, I don’t care how Ukraine and Gazprom deal with the so-called national treasure. What falls from that treasure? Well, this question is kept all the time so that we worry about our own things. And I understand the Ukrainians, their shirt is closer to the body, here they are trying. I’ve already heard that gas in Ukraine is cheaper for the population than in Russia. I ask the Ukrainian comrades to enlighten on this issue.
    1. 0
      14 September 2012 18: 38
      Quote: Pancho
      .I have already heard more than once that gas in Ukraine is cheaper for the population than in Russia. I ask the Ukrainian comrades to enlighten in this matter.

      It depends on how you count !!!
      If in dollars per 1000 cubic meters, then of course it is cheaper !!! But if in% of the salary, then Ukrainians should be just millionaires in order to pay for such gas !!!
  21. Vas_OK
    0
    13 September 2012 22: 27
    Sorry for being straightforward, but for my "taste" the site has gathered, I don't even know how to put it softer, "faces are not disfigured by intellect." Such a pioneer-pensioner circle without special claims and requirements for information and its analysis.
    Dear sirs and ladies, if you are presented with information in the article, then for reflection, and not for hasty conclusions. Not all information provided by the authors of the articles is a fact, but in essence it is a subjective opinion, half-truth, and often cited from other sources misinformation, that is, blatant lies. But even if a fact is conveyed, it is often covered one-sidedly, flawedly. Any event that has occurred, that is, a fact has its whole core, which is truth. It is impossible to perceive the whole truth at once from the residual traces (fragments). The consequence is explained by the cause, and this is the truth, as the laws of nature. Each consequence has its own reason, but the more complex the event, the more difficult it is to compare the causes of its occurrence.
    There are many questions to Alexey Volodin's article, well, for example, the author mentions gas storage facilities located on the territory of Ukraine, gas supplied by Russia and natural gas consumers in Europe, and an absurd conclusion is drawn immediately: "Ukraine is going to fill its storage facilities with Russian gas, so that later resell to Europe when the fuel supply is very tight. "
    Over the past years since the construction of gas storages, they fulfill their function of smoothing out seasonal unevenness in gas consumption.
    But due to the failed consortium, Ukraine is forced to date Gazprom at its own expense in the winter during the winter. At the border of the gas transportation system of Russia and Ukraine, the flowing volume of gas is constant, both in summer and winter, and at the border of the gas transportation system of Ukraine and the EU, the volume increases by two to three times.
    Question: what is the volume of gas, what is its legal status, who makes up for the technological losses of gas? And further: why should Ukraine sell cheaper what was bought for a tri-price and reported its own?
    1. Dipsy
      +2
      13 September 2012 23: 23
      perhaps the expensive gas purchased by Ukraine goes to the needs of the population. The next political lever about the cause of all troubles nezalezhnom.
      And gas produced directly in the country is exported. And think for yourself who pays for expensive imported gas and who sells cheap export gas.
      This is just an assumption.