Russian empire. New facts

The Transsib is one of the largest industrial achievements of the Russian Empire.

Previous article “Russian Empire. An Honest Look ”caused a mixed reaction. There is a lot of controversy and controversy. Unable to respond to every comment, the author decided to publish a new article containing additional facts to support the point of view expressed. The article examines the rates of economic growth of the Russian Empire before the First World War, the development of its industry, the growth of the welfare of citizens. A wide range of statistical material is provided, on the basis of which it is possible to draw quite unambiguous conclusions.

Growth rates

One of the main indicators of a country in all its eras is the rate of economic growth.

This is how Paul Gregory assesses the development of the economy of the Russian Empire:

"During the period of industrialization and the anticipated agrarian crisis (1880s-1890s), Russian production growth was roughly equal to that of Western Europe."

“The results obtained by the author indicate an increase in agricultural production per capita in the two decades preceding 1905. From 1883 to 1901 it grew by 2,55% annually - this level was twice the rate of population growth (1,3%). "

“Despite its institutional problems, Russian agriculture in the last thirty years before the revolution progressed at normal or even exceeding normal rates (judging by the experience of Western European countries). Empirical observations do not support the agrarian crisis hypothesis. In fact, on the whole, per capita indicators of Russian agriculture were growing, the living standards of peasants and real wages were increasing, and the export of agricultural products was experiencing a real boom. "

And another quote from Paul Gregory:

“The experience of tsarist Russia, therefore, does not provide additional arguments for the current opponents of private agriculture. The level of agricultural production and abundance in 1913 was never achieved until the post-war period. "

As for the growth rate of the Russian Empire in comparison with the leading countries of the West, Paul Gregory gives the following figures.

Russia (1883-1887 - 1909-1913) - 3,25%.
Germany (1886-1895 - 1911-1913) - 2,9%.
USA (1880-1890 - 1910-1914) - 3,5%.

Additional information can be gleaned from the following graphs:

The graph clearly shows that among the leading countries in Europe, the Russian Empire ranked first in terms of economic growth. The graphs are based on Angus Maddison's calculations

The revenues of the Russian budget are also very indicative, which before the First World War were second only to those of Germany, surpassing England and even the United States.

Economic and industrial development

In this article, it is appropriate to provide broader information about the economic and industrial development of the Russian Empire before the First World War.

For this we will use the information of the modern historian A. A. Borisyuk. He gives the following figures.

Steel smelting: 1892-1916 - an increase of 4,7 times, 1916-1940. - an increase of 4,3 times.
Iron smelting: 1892-1916 - an increase of 4,2 times, 1916-1940. - an increase of 3,9 times.
Coal mining: 1892-1916 - an increase of 8,5 times, 1916-1940. - an increase of 4,8 times.
Electricity generation: 1916 - 2,6 billion kWh, 1924 - 1,6 billion kWh.
Brick production: 1894–1913 - growth by 4 times, 1913-1940. - an increase of 2,2 times.
Glass production: 1894–1913 - growth by 4,5 times, 1913-1940. - growth by 1,9 times.
Cement production: 1894-1913 - 15 times growth, 1913-1940 - growth by 3 times.

Andrey Anatolyevich also gives some social indicators:

Change in the number of schools: 1894-1914 - 2 times growth, 1914-1928 - decline by 1,1 times.
Change in the number of students: 1894-1914 - growth by 3 times, 1914-1928. - growth by 1,2 times.
Change in the number of hospitals: 1903-1913 - growth by 1,5 times, 1914 - 1928 - decline by 1,5 times.

A. A. Borisyuk pays special attention to the program for the construction of railways. According to him, during the reign of Nicholas II, the greatest increase in the length of public railways for the entire history Russia. Thus, the increase in the length of railways in the period from 1894 to 1917 amounted to 46 thousand kilometers.

The graphs clearly indicate that never in the entire history of Russia have railways been built so intensively as during the reign of Nicholas II.

The construction of railways makes it possible to provide factories with more and more large-scale supplies of fuel and raw materials.

The main cargo of the empire's railways is coal. The supply of coal to enterprises was a key function of the railways. Railways are becoming the foundation of industrialization.

In Russia, the construction of railways is specific. It starts up more slowly than in Europe, but over time it reaches a higher pace. As long as the European industry has a transport advantage, it is in the lead. Their factories receive more competitive opportunities in the supply of fuel and raw materials, and, therefore, favorable conditions for development.

Despite the record resource potential, we cannot take full advantage of this potential due to transport restrictions. At a certain point, Russia is indeed outstripped by a number of countries: Germany, England, France and even Austria-Hungary.

But this was only temporary.

Over time, Russia is ahead of all European countries in terms of the length of railways. Russia is getting the opportunity to use its record resource base for an industrial breakthrough. The solution of transport issues in the conditions of a superior resource base opens up the prospects for world leadership for Russia.

No revolution was needed. Roads were needed, and they were built.

“To carry out the forced industrialization, it was necessary to prioritize the development of transport. It was not enough to be engaged only in the construction of factories - communications were needed, advanced transport was needed. "

This opinion of A. A. Borisyuk is quite consistent with the point of view of Paul Gregory, who called the construction of railways a condition for Russia's participation in the industrial revolution.

Note also that from 1895 to 1906 the river fleet increased 2 times. It was the largest in the world.

In 1916, more than 5 thousand kilometers of public railways were put into operation. The record has not been broken so far.

Documentation of the Ministry of Railways of the Russian Empire, stored in the Russian State Historical Archives, testifies that in 1916 a program was being developed for an even more accelerated construction of railways - over 6 thousand kilometers of new roads per year. Moreover, this is perceived as a minimum bar so as not to slow down the pace of economic development.

In Soviet times, these plans would prove to be impracticable.

Other numbers could be cited as well.

The graph clearly shows that the USSR reached its pre-revolutionary values ​​in the field of mechanical engineering and metalworking only around 1929.

The same goes for steel smelting. Only by 1929 did the USSR reach pre-revolutionary indicators. Note that the growth of steel production in the Soviet Union is very close to the trend of the Russian Empire

The Soviet Union reached the pre-revolutionary level of coal production only by 1929. For ten years, the country has been restoring its positions lost after the revolutions of 1917.

Already at the beginning of the twentieth century - before the revolution - Russia began to outstrip the largest economies of Europe. A significant moment is the outstripping of the economy of France - one of the economic leaders of the XNUMXth century.

The graphs show that by 1913 the Russian Empire was ahead of France in steelmaking.

It can also be seen that by 1913 Russia had bypassed France in power generation.

It should be noted that many, if not most, of the construction projects of the first five-year plans were designed even before the revolution.

For example, the famous "Magnitka" began in 1916, and at the end of 1917 the construction site stopped. The work was resumed only in 1927. The construction of the Dnieper Hydroelectric Power Station was supposed to begin in 1915, but the war prevented it.

All factories that produce railway locomotives to this day were built in pre-revolutionary Russia. It is enough to look at the year of their foundation.

For example: the Nevsky Machine-Building Plant was founded in 1857, the Kolomensky Plant - in 1863, the Bryansk Plant (BMZ) - in 1873, the Rostov Workshops of the Vladikavkaz Railway produced locomotives in 1896, the Lugansk Diesel Locomotive Plant (LPR) was founded in 1896.

They also designed the routing of the lines of the Moscow metro, which was planned to start building in 1920.

Separately, it should be said about the plan for the electrification of the country, which was developed back in 1909, the beginning of its implementation was scheduled for 1915, but due to the war, it was moved to 1920. After the revolution, the GOELRO plan was appropriated by the Bolsheviks.

As Paul Gregory points out:

During the period of the first five-year plans (1928-1940), the growth rate of output per worker was the same as in tsarist Russia. Thus, the acceleration of growth in the “early” Soviet period was primarily a consequence of the widespread use of labor.

Was there a famine in the Russian Empire?

Hunger in the empire has long been manipulated.

But mass hunger leads to leaps in mortality. They can be seen, for example, in the 1920s and 1930s. There are no such leaps in the empire. The mortality rate is constantly decreasing, and its fluctuations are decreasing. A transport system is being created at a record pace, which makes it possible to transfer food and medicine to the regions in need.

The graphics clearly show the absence of sharp outbreaks of an increase in mortality in the Russian Empire at the end of the XNUMXth - beginning of the XNUMXth centuries.

Along with this, a sharp increase in the volume of the harvest is recorded.

Grain yields, the main crops, are growing much faster than in comparable periods since the revolution. Moreover, the growth rate of the harvest outstrips the growth rate of the population.

The growth rates of agricultural products in the Russian Empire exceed those after the revolution.

After the revolution, the situation deteriorates, the volume of the harvest is sharply reduced. The country is gripped by hunger and widespread disease. The number of cases of typhus reaches 2 million per year. The incidence of malaria reaches almost 10 million people a year. However, these data were classified during the Soviet years.

Some people refer to references to hunger in various pre-revolutionary books or even dictionaries. But, as a rule, an important fact is overlooked: the very concept of hunger is quite broad. Hunger can be considered, for example, limited food to varying degrees, which really could be in the empire in times of poor harvest and which was successfully overcome. And you can count the peak values ​​of starvation mortality, as in the 20s and 30s. There were no peak fluctuations in mortality characteristic of the Soviet Union in the Russian Empire.

Paul Gregory's data also indicate the impossibility of famine in the Russian Empire at the beginning of the twentieth century.

“Available data on agricultural production show that in Russia from 1880 to 1905 it grew faster than the rural population. There was both a general increase in the volume of production in the agricultural sector (about 2,5% per year) and its growth per capita (about 1% per year). "

And more:

“Between 1885-1889 and 1897-1901, the value of grain left by peasants for their own consumption in constant prices increased by 51%, while the rural population increased by 17%. Thus, grain consumption in agriculture grew 3 times faster than the rural population. "

Welfare of citizens

During the reign of Emperor Nicholas II, there has been a noticeable increase in the standard of living of the population.

In the last four years before the First World War, the number of newly established joint stock companies increased by 132%, and the capital invested in them almost quadrupled.

The progressive growth in the well-being of the population is clearly demonstrated by the following table of deposits in state savings banks:

In 1914, there were deposits in the state savings bank for 2 rubles.

According to Paul Gregory, before the outbreak of the First World War, Russian per capita income was one third of that in France and Germany and about 60% of that of Austria-Hungary. It should be added that the total amount of taxes (per resident in rubles) was:

Russia - 9,09
Austria - 21,47
France - 22,25
Germany - 22,26
England - 42,61.

Thus, the well-being of the inhabitants of Russia was lower than in France and Germany, but, taking into account the tax burden, it was approximately equal to the level of Austria-Hungary.

In terms of the absolute standard of living of the people, the USSR caught up with Tsarist Russia only by the beginning of the 1960s, having lost half a century, and in terms of relative, in comparison with other most developed countries, it never caught up with the Russian Empire.

Over the past 10 years before the First World War, the excess of state revenues over expenditures was expressed in the amount of 2 rubles.

This figure seems all the more impressive since during the reign of Emperor Nicholas II, railway tariffs were lowered and redemption payments for land that were transferred to the peasants from their former landowners in 1861, and in 1914, with the outbreak of war, and all types of drinking taxes, were canceled.

In conclusion

What can be said in conclusion?

The statistics are given above, and they eloquently indicate that the Russian Empire at the beginning of the twentieth century was not a backward country.

Among the leading countries of the world, Russia had very decent economic growth indicators, second only to the United States among the top countries, and a little. The indicators of the budget revenues of the country, which had very high growth rates, and in absolute terms were slightly inferior only to Germany, are also quite convincing.

In other words, at the beginning of the twentieth century, Russia was a rich country.

A number of pre-revolutionary economic indicators (steel smelting, pig iron smelting, coal mining, production of building materials, construction of railways) surpassed even the industrialization indicators of the 1930s in terms of their growth rates. At the same time, it is quite indicative that many of these indicators (including the production of mechanical engineering and metalworking products) in the Soviet Union reached the absolute values ​​of the Russian Empire only by 1928–1929. That is, for ten (!) Years, the country's economy was only recovering after the revolutions of 1917.

The revolution and the unintelligible agrarian policy that followed it turned profitable Russian agriculture, which brought huge profits to the country, into unprofitable Soviet agriculture, when already in 1928-1929 the Soviet Union was forced to import grain for the first time in history. And no amount of new tractors saved the situation, since the peasantry found itself in a completely powerless position and was in no way motivated to increase the efficiency of their labor.

What could be the future of the Russian Empire if the crisis of 1917 was successfully passed?

One can only speculate about this hypothetically, nevertheless, general outlines can be given on the basis of those projects, the construction of which was planned before the revolutions. It is obvious that the country was waiting for an even more intensive construction of railways, massive electrification, the construction of industrial giants such as the Magnitogorsk Iron and Steel Works, DneproGES, etc.

The industrialization of the Russian Empire would have continued in 1920-1930, reaching more and more impressive absolute figures. Of course, it would have differed from the Soviet model in the direction of greater marketability and greater profits for the country. Most likely, light industry and the production of consumer goods would play a larger role in comparison with heavy industry. But this means that the country would make more money by improving the well-being of its citizens.

The revolutions of 1917 set the country back decades. The level of 1913 GDP of the USSR reached about 1928-1929. In these conditions, the notorious lag behind Western countries has increased significantly and demanded radical measures to create industrial power. And, since the evolutionary path of economic development was crossed out by revolutions, by the 1930s only a radical path of development remained. And he had a price, extremely high. But this is a topic for a separate conversation.

Comments

[tihonmarine]

Thanks to the author for the article.

[210ox]

Yes, the Author has arranged it well on the shelves. Only a small nuance - in a dynamically developing empire, coups, revolutions, etc. are not made. There are certainly reasons for them, including economic ones.

[seti]

Quote: 210ox

Yes, the Author has arranged it well on the shelves. Only a small nuance - in a dynamically developing empire, coups, revolutions, etc. are not made. There are certainly reasons for them, including economic ones.

You forget "color revolutions" with help from abroad. With a clear end goal. Auto RU per article.

[Kronos]

There are no such in monarchies, they have palace coups, as was the case, for example, with Catherine 2.

[210ox]

Why not. Events of the late 18th century in France - a palace coup? Such a small affair.

[Kronos]

I mean, under a monarchy, either revolutions take place, or palace coups, you cannot artificially inflate a revolution from abroad for it, there are always objective prerequisites.

[Kayala]

Then the technology was just different. For example, a murder with a snuffbox in the temple can be considered a color coup, since it was one hundred percent of British ears sticking out.

[Dart2027]

Quote: Kronos

artificially from abroad the revolution cannot be inflated for it there are always objective prerequisites.

In any country you can find a certain number of dissatisfied people, and not always objectively, who will happily destroy their country without thinking about the consequences.

[Kronos]

Then it will be a riot or uprising, a revolution is a mass phenomenon.

[Dart2027]

Quote: Kronos

it will be a riot or uprising, a revolution is a mass phenomenon

It became widespread when the liberals, who had seized power, destroyed the state apparatus and the army. It was then that it began, so much so that the losses from the PMA itself turned out to be an order of magnitude less. And the king was overthrown by the then elite.

[Kronos]

The people, tired of the war, supported it, without grandiose demonstrations and rallies, no elite would have succeeded.

[Dart2027]

Quote: Kronos

without grandiose demonstrations and rallies, no elite would have succeeded

The tsar was overthrown by generals and ministers, who provided all these performances, for example, when bread "suddenly and in time" disappeared in the capital

[Andybuts]

when bread "suddenly and on time" disappeared in the capital

Don't you admit the possibility that the military-oriented railroad simply couldn't handle other cargo?

[Dart2027]

Quote: andybuts

that the military-oriented railroad simply couldn't handle other cargo?

So suddenly and immediately? All the time there was bread and once - gone? No, I don't believe in such coincidences, the conspirators worked too confidently and clearly - it was not impromptu.

[Andybuts]

So suddenly and immediately?

but why all of a sudden? they have appeared since the beginning of the war and have been growing all the time. At the end of 1916, railway transport could no longer cope. This is a school pass, at least in the 90s took place. Plus grain procurements suffered - a lot of peasants at the front, then, the number of workers. Well, the favorite pastime of strong farms in difficult times is to hold back the grain in the hope of speculating with the rise in prices, which the tsarist government has made a surplus appropriation. But the problem remained, and in the same Peter over the winter it brought in about a third of the needed volume of bread. Well, by mid-February, the bread, which was gradually disappearing, disappeared altogether. Now reduce the supply of food to St. Petersburg or Moscow to one-third for a couple of weeks and there will be no food left in the cities. Then it was also.

[Dart2027]

Quote: andybuts

but why all of a sudden?

Quote: Dart2027

No, I don't believe in such coincidences, the conspirators worked too confidently and clearly - it was not impromptu.

[paul3390]

It became widespread when the peasants spontaneously began to divide the landlord's land .. This is where the army collapsed - no one wanted to sit in the trench, it is not clear why when the main aspiration of the land is being divided at home .. So after all, you can be late - you will come from the front, and you cut some swamps.

[Dart2027]

Quote: paul3390

This is where the army collapsed

Collapsed after the order of "self-government".

[Aag]

Quote: paul3390

It became widespread when the peasants spontaneously began to divide the landlord's land .. This is where the army collapsed - no one wanted to sit in the trench, it is not clear why when the main aspiration of the land is being divided at home .. So after all, you can be late - you will come from the front, and you cut some swamps.

... It seems that you are telling the realities of the present time. Then, I think, everything was more prosaic, to feed a family ... However, as now ... No! Of course, - Rosstat gives data that sales of new aircraft mobile phones in Russia fell by 26% compared to last year ... But! The average cost of a car (new), (assembled in Russia), amounted to 2.140 sput (!).! Okay ...
It seems that in this situation, they will "redeem" (squeeze out), EVERYTHING! ...
To the author, - apologies!

[Akuzenka]

But! The average cost of a car (new), (assembled in Russia), amounted to 2.140 sput (!).! Okay ...

And most importantly, just an illustration of the "growth" in the article - the indicator is growing !!!!!

[Svarog]

Quote: Dart2027

In any country you can find some amount dissatisfied

Some kind of yes .. in any country there is .. Therefore, in European countries they try not to forget about it .. but in African countries .. regularly revolutions and coups .. Why? Because there is not a certain amount .. but most of the dissatisfied .. and how do not disguise it, how do not shout urya .. what do not write articles-odes .. people can not be fooled .. maybe at first, of course, but when it comes to refrigerator .. it will be sad .. but someone hurts. Unfortunately, history does not teach anything ..

[Dart2027]

Quote: Svarog

but when it comes to the refrigerator .. it will be sad .. but someone hurts

Are you talking about the last years of the USSR?

[Svarog]

Quote: Dart2027

Are you talking about the last years of the USSR?

Including ... But in the USSR this situation was artificially created ...

[Dart2027]

Quote: Svarog

But in the USSR, this situation was artificially created ..

So what? This is the problem of the USSR.

[Svarog]

Quote: Dart2027

So what? This is the problem of the USSR.

This is the problem of the irremovability of the elites .. of the president (or any other supreme manager and personnel department .. well, of the system itself that is built ..
Any system steeped in corruption, nepotism ... is doomed. What is with RI, what is the USSR .. what is now.

[Dart2027]

Quote: Svarog

This is the problem of the irremovability of the elites .. the president (or any other supreme

And where do they change? All over the world there is an oligarchy, quite calmly passing on its position by inheritance.

[Svarog]

Quote: Dart2027

And where do they change? All over the world there is an oligarchy, quite calmly passing on its position by inheritance.

Right all over the world? Do not confuse the capitalist elite .. which really does not change, and politicians .. even though they pursue the line of the capitalist elite .. There they also imprison former presidents .. But still, throughout the civilizational world, they change and strictly observe the law. This is the first thing. Second .. the elite is the elite - a separate .. Attitude towards people and citizens of their country is an indicator and a yardstick .. If in the richest country in the world people have an income like in the countries of Africa .. (many have already outstripped us from African countries), then this is an indicator. .as well as the gap between the poor and the rich .. an indicator that this is not the elite, but the street punks who have seized power, who did not give a damn about the laws .. morality .. people .. yes, in general, everything except money and their own pleasures .. Such "elite" does not change and does not change .. it will destroy its country.
And third ... the link to the fact that THEM there is also not the best argument .. the bar needs to be raised higher, so that everyone would cite us as an example .. and we have everything for this .. resources, smart minds, a proven ideology time .. There is still only the will of the masses ... the people are still asleep .. but judging by the dynamics .. awakening is close .. the negative among the people is growing at an incredible pace .. if two, three years ago, many simply blasphemed .. but now hatred penetrates the hearts of people .. and this is bad .. this is a disaster. And similar articles, coupled with clown performances and the desire of some to rule to the grave .. while only taking and giving nothing in return .. can end very badly. As you know, history repeats itself .. and now what is happening is very similar to 1910 ..

[Dart2027]

Quote: Svarog

Don’t confuse the capitalist elite .. which really does not change, and politicians .. even though they are pursuing the line of the capitalist elite .. There they also imprison former presidents .. But still, throughout the civilizational world, they are changing and strictly abide by the law. This is the first thing.

That is, the real elites do not change, but they regularly stage performances.

Quote: Svarog

If in the richest country in the world people have an income like in the countries of Africa .. (many from African countries have already surpassed us)

Which ones? United Arab Emirates? Not everything is so simple there.

Quote: Svarog

And third .. the reference to the fact that THEM there is also not the best argument .. the bar needs to be raised higher so that everyone would cite us as an example .. and we have everything for this .. resources, smart minds, a proven ideology time.

The latter is really time-tested - the country did not know such a shame as in the 90s. It's okay to lose the war, this was and will be, but when the government simply surrenders everything and all this unique event.

Quote: Svarog

negativity among the people is growing at an incredible pace .. if two, three years ago, many simply blasphemed .. but now hatred penetrates the hearts of people

Yes. Something is imperceptible.

[ivan2022]

Quote: Dart2027

Quote: Svarog

This is the problem of the irremovability of the elites .. the president (or any other supreme

And where do they change? All over the world there is an oligarchy, quite calmly passing on its position by inheritance.

Worldwide? Is it the same in the United States as in Sudan, for example?

Worldwide monthly salary of 4 thousand dollars at comparable prices?
Worldwide average life expectancy of 85 years as in Switzerland?

[Dart2027]

Quote: ivan2022

Worldwide average life expectancy of 85 years as in Switzerland?

In 2019, life expectancy in Russia was 73,4 years, reaching its historical maximum.

Quote: ivan2022

Worldwide monthly salary of 4 thousand dollars at comparable prices?

It depends on who. Let's see what is the salary in some American ghetto?

Quote: ivan2022

Is it the same in the United States as in Sudan, for example?

There are no oligarchs in the US? Hmm ...

[ivan2022]

Quote: Dart2027

In 2019, life expectancy in Russia was 73,4 years, reaching its all-time high .... There are no oligarchs in the US? Hmm ....

And it was you who wrote that they do not exist and that there is at the same time ... it’s not me .... I wrote that they are everywhere, but the sense from them is different in different countries.
Well, you generally give the country coal! In the 70s, the USSR was in the top 10 countries of the World in terms of AO. And now it is not included in the top-100. In terms of the quality of life, according to UN estimates, we are now ... something after the 70th ...
The fact that the oligarchic system has embraced the entire world, Marx said, and therefore called on the proletarians of all countries to unite as well. And the fact that in fact only large companies have united is a question for the proletarians .... An idea is just a tool. They gave them a tool in their hands - they themselves ......... chopped off ...

[Dart2027]

Quote: ivan2022

I wrote that they are everywhere, but the sense from them is different in different countries.

Those in Sudan have fewer opportunities.

Quote: ivan2022

In the 70s, the USSR was in the top 10 countries of the World in terms of AO.

There is no need to tell. There was science, space, defense industry, everything was super modern, but about what was for the people, Putin told the truth.

[Alexey RA]

Quote: Dart2027

There was science, space, defense industry, everything was super modern, but about what was for the people, Putin told the truth.

And he also said about the defense industry and space then.

We had a defense industry - cool, strong, and we are still proud of it. We are grateful to our grandfathers and our fathers for creating such a defense after the Great Patriotic War.

From the audience: ... And the first satellite.

Vladimir Putin: Both the first satellite and the first man in space are our common pride, these are the achievements of the Soviet government, of which we are all proud. These are nationwide achievements.

But consumer goods ... Zhirinovsky has already said this. Where were they? There were none. Let's not lie to each other and the people. The people know what was and what was not.

[Dart2027]

Quote: Alexey RA

And he also said about the defense industry and space then.

I know, I just phrased it incorrectly.

[Andrey Chizhevsky]

Yeah .. Here Tolya is in America)))) They are practically the same - only some call themselves republicans, while others call themselves democrats. But in fact, they are the same.

[ivan2022]

Quote: Dart2027

Quote: Svarog

But in the USSR, this situation was artificially created ..

So what? This is the problem of the USSR.

This is the problem of a society that could not live according to the laws of the USSR, but very steadily clings to modern legislation. And it will hold on until it disappears completely!

[Dart2027]

Quote: ivan2022

This is the problem of a society that could not live according to the laws of the USSR, but very steadily clings to modern legislation.

That is, the USSR turned out to be a utopia.

[ivan2022]

Quote: Dart2027

That is, the USSR turned out to be a utopia.

Yes, yes, not that. Germany was defeated by "utopia?" Is it healthy "- as the ancestors said?

The USSR is not a deceased sick relative who used to live in your apartment. The USSR is the legislation that a society like you could not live by. Although they themselves still cannot explain what specifically they did not like these laws. Except to mumble about "utopia" - nothing!

China, and not only ..... even Japan took a lot from the economic system of the USSR. The Japanese mastered the Soviet planning system so that they were able to plan everything in large firms to the nail. They didn't even need finished goods warehouses. Europe took at one time the Semashko health care system as a model.

From the mere existence of the USSR in the world, billions of people were the beneficiaries! All ... heh ... heh .... except for you, gentlemen, "dear Russians" ..

In short, you only got the fable of grandfather Krylov; "Monkey and glasses" .... The glasses do not work. Only theft and banditry - the only "..ism .." which is not a "utopia".

[Dart2027]

Quote: ivan2022

Yes, yes, not that. Germany was defeated by "utopia?" Is it healthy "- as the ancestors said?

Please show it on the map.

[Vadim237]

In 1917, thanks to Lena with his surrender agreements with Kaiser Germany, the road was laid along which Hitler came to power in Germany, which, as a result, arranged a bloodbath for the USSR in the 41st.

[chenia]

Quote: Vadim237

Germany just laid the road along which Hitler came to power

Che? War would be anyway, it is British traditional pranks (as a way of observing their permanent interests and preserving the British Empire).
WWII is the result of a miscalculation by British politicians when European countries were pitted against each other (it just has to happen somewhat differently.
So, WWII is in no way connected with the USSR (RI would have survived, the Britons would still send the Germans to the East).
But without industrialization (and it would not have survived the Republic of Ingushetia), in 1941 (or even earlier) the Russian tsars organized balls in Tobolsk. and even in Kamchatka.

[Vadim237]

World War II, if anything, Hitler unleashed and he also attacked the USSR. And here are British politicians in general. The Second World War is also connected, but not with the USSR, but with the actions of the new leadership of the country, namely the Bolsheviks in 1917, precisely with their treacherous and shameful surrender, Germany remained in better conditions, no one who shared it with his external government did not introduce and thereby created Hitler's path to power.

[chenia]

Quote: Vadim237

And here are British politicians in general. The Second World War is also connected, but not with the USSR, but with the actions of the new leadership of the country, namely the Bolsheviks in 1917

An interesting version. You are so naive. or are you pretending? The only question is, how did Germany raise its head? It could be stopped with one click. And why did the Nazis receive all the preferences, and not the Social Democrats? And, they find themselves more offended by the West. And the Nazis had a clear direction - to the East.
Well, how not to take advantage of this?
And then. what turned out differently, then Hitler himself is a skillful manipulator and played his game.

[Black5Raven]

Quote: chenia

And the Nazis had a clear direction - to the East.

Especially true for France

[chenia]

Quote: Black5Raven

Especially true for France

There is a strategy and there is a tactic. This tactic "surprised" France. And then we moved on to the strategic goal. What's wrong?

[Akuzenka]

Especially true for France

And tell me, please, why did France start building the Maginot Line in 1925, when Hitler was not even close to power? There was no money to go to, or did you already know that "Hitler" would be and decided to be safe?

[Vadim237]

And how did Germany raise its head? "Yes, no one has easily touched it since that very 1917, and on all the agreements signed there, with the advent of the new government, the National Socialists, headed by Hitler, put a lot of crap, and in general, no one thought that Germany would unleash the war again Therefore, neither Poland, France, nor other countries were preparing for war-Here's a snap.The USSR was preparing, and even then with a reference point that the world bourgeoisie would attack - but the National Socialists of Germany attacked and our 41st made up a full 70% of the equipment and personnel on the eastern front lost from June to December.

[chenia]

Quote: Vadim237

and on all the agreements signed there, with the advent of the new government, the National Socialists, headed by Hitler, put a big horseradish

And the EsDecs were stupid and did not guess. that Germany

Quote: Vadim237

no one has touched since that very 1917

And without force, it was possible to completely ignore the provisions of the Versailles Treaty. And do not care about indemnities and annexations.
And France "silently" looked at the strengthening of Germany (three divisions could put the whole of Germany on the ears). Weird. Or maybe someone convinced France that the prospects for the revival of German militarism would not be affected.

Well, I had opponents, but what would it be, for the first time.
Holy simplicity.
Are you not a schoolboy?

[Alexey RA]

Quote: Vadim237

in 1917, it was with their treacherous and shameful surrender that Germany remained in better conditions, no one shared her external government, and thus created Hitler's path to power.

So a generation has grown up that does not know, for example, about the Rhineland and the Ruhr conflict.
External control of Germany was called the Versailles Peace Treaty. With the strict observance of the provisions of which, no aggression by Germany would be possible. But the trouble is - the guarantors of this peace treaty themselves scored on its observance, gradually allowing the Reich to move further and further from its provisions. Remilitarize the Rhineland, please. The creation of a mass conscript army - please. The types of weapons prohibited by the treaty - please, even prescribed how many of them you can have.
The Reich could have been stopped as early as 1936, after the illegal entry of troops into the Rhineland. And then he could not oppose the guarantor countries of Versailles. But France and Britain decided not to interfere ...

[Akuzenka]

But without industrialization (and it would not have survived the Republic of Ingushetia), in 1941 (or even earlier) the Russian tsars organized balls in Tobolsk. and even in Kamchatka.

I doubt. If the British, in reality, destroyed all direct heirs, then in the one you are describing, they would have wiped out altogether, to the root.

[72jora72]

From the mere existence of the USSR in the World, billions of people were the beneficiaries!

The entire "social sphere" of Western countries (all over the world), from the word ALL, left the USSR.

[anykin]

Quote: Svarog

people can't be fooled .. maybe at first of course, but when it comes to the refrigerator .. it will be sad

Quote: Svarog

in the USSR, this situation was artificially created

So people can't be fooled, or is it artificially possible?

[Trapperxnumx]

Quote: Svarog

Including ... But in the USSR this situation was artificially created ...

Just like the situation with bread in Petrograd in 1917. There is only one manual, you can immediately see it.

[tihonmarine]

Quote: Svarog

But in the USSR, this situation was artificially created ..

And the preparation went on immediately after the death of J.V. Stalin since 1953

[210ox]

This is certainly true. And about the pace of development, I'll tell you what. Percentage is guile. And in the gross product, in per capita income? Author, you have broken facts

[Kayala]

Is it possible, in general, to be grabbing and wishful thinking to be considered "facts"? For the second article in a row, the author is trying to pull an owl onto the globe, while using not real numbers, but manipulations with percentages.
For example, I make 10 bricks in my garage. Then I called three friends and we began to produce 40 bricks. Production growth of 400 percent! And the neighbor Vasya produced 1000 bricks at the mini-factory, and then modernized it and began to produce 1200 bricks. The growth is only 20 percent. But which of us is cooler, me or Vasya? And this is not counting all sorts of little things like the cost price for me and Vasya, and other economic components. The author does not care about such trifles at all, there was growth, period. And so it is in everything. Another reincarnation of olgovich with the crunch of a French baguette behind the ears.
Author, stop spanking nonsense, it still hurts ...

[Olgovich]

Quote: Kayala

for me and Vasya, and other economic components. The author does not care about such trifles at all, there was growth, period. And so it is in everything. Another reincarnation of olgovich with the crunch of a French baguette behind the ears

and does not reach the next crunchy lover bones of queens and rokossovskih, that after a certain time alesha will OVERTAKE Vasya.

What Russia did in fact, see. the same France and Avenregia.

And with that unique human potential, which was stupidly "used, with huge losses and sacrifices, following ignoramuses and ignoramuses and advanced RUSSIAN science, half destroyed by thieves, Russia would achieve industrial growth and, most importantly, the WELL-BEING of the people, which, instead of prosperity 1930s (under Russia), millions died in the throes of hunger during mass cannibalism and corpse-eating, exiled by millions, including to the islands of cannibals Nazino, shot in hundreds of thousands a year and by millions fled restlessly across the country from robbers and rapists in power.

Auto RU-Thank you very much for the TRUTH about our country, Russia.

[Vasilenko Vladimir]

Quote: Olgovich

that after a certain time alesha will OVERCOME Vasya.

I understand that your knowledge of economics and mathematics tends to zero, but there is a limit to everything

[Olgovich]

Quote: Vasilenko Vladimir

I understand that your knowledge of economics and mathematics tends to zero, but there is a limit to everything

judging by your "pearls" there is no limit to barbarism and ignorance

[Vasilenko Vladimir]

as always, emotionally, but not in the subject
so that we have, according to the number of tactars involved in the Union of Artists of the Republic of Ingushetia in 1913, will there be an answer or not?

[Olgovich]

Quote: Vasilenko Vladimir

as always, emotionally, but not in the subject

right you are on your own tractor, "potemovy" you are our drove

Quote: Vasilenko Vladimir

So what do we have in terms of the number of tactars involved in the Union of Artists of the Republic of Ingushetia in 1913, will there be an answer or not?

the answer was given 3 (THREE!) times, so it should be clear even complete there.

[Vasilenko Vladimir]

you didn't give anything, you wrote nonsense about MASS production, you bypass the number of tractors because they put an end to your splint
6000 in the USA versus 160 in the Republic of Ingushetia

[Olgovich]

Quote: Vasilenko Vladimir

you didn't give anything, you wrote nonsense about MASS production, you bypass the number of tractors because they put an end to your splint
6000 in the USA versus 160 in the Republic of Ingushetia

BRED-a chronic condition of lovers of crunching bones of queens.

The main achievement of yours is a LIE always and in everything - from the first to the last day. Through the looking glass.

[Vasilenko Vladimir]

Quote: Olgovich

it is a LIE always and in everything

that's REALLY tired, if I gave false data, give TRUE, how many tractors were used in the SH in the Republic of Ingushetia

[Olgovich]

Quote: Vasilenko Vladimir

that's REALLY tired, if I gave false data, give TRUE, how many tractors were used in the SH in the Republic of Ingushetia

you are already tired of it: you have been answered THREE TIMES, but you have never understood it. Is there a special school here?

To freedom, yes!

[Vasilenko Vladimir]

Quote: Olgovich

you are tired already: you answered THREE TIMES

you write THREE TIMES about anything but not about the number of tractors, write honestly once that the situation with the mechanization of the Republic of Ingushetia was terrible

[Olgovich]

Quote: Vasilenko Vladimir

you write THREE TIMES about anything but not about the number of tractors, write honestly once that the situation with the mechanization of the Republic of Ingushetia was terrible

about the spaceships in which the Soviet Union outstripped Russia - no need to write?

in the USSR, the level of production of steam locomotives in 1907 in Russia, the "one-day" regime barely caught up with ... in 1934.

In 1989, the level of manual labor on farms in the agricultural sector in the USSR was SHAME 70%.
Not a single normal country in the world could have imagined this ...

[Vasilenko Vladimir]

Quote: Olgovich

in the USSR, the level of production of steam locomotives in 1907 in Russia, the "one-day" regime barely caught up with ... in 1934.

most are not tired of stupidity to write?

Quote: Olgovich

In 1989, the level of manual labor on farms in the agricultural sector in the USSR was SHAME 70%.

your lies are already tired, give at least one figure with a link to the source

[Olgovich]

Quote: Vasilenko Vladimir

most are not tired of stupidity to write?

this is done here exclusively by you, due to ignorance.

Russia, 1906 1266 steam locomotives were produced
USSR 1934 for the first time reached the production of 1210 steam locomotives

Quote: Vasilenko Vladimir

your lies are already tired, give at least one figure with a link to the source

monograph by L. Denisov "The Vanishing Village of Russia".

What do you, in turn, confirm your delirium with? Nothing? yes, that's right.

[Foul skeptic]

monograph by L. Denisov "The Vanishing Village of Russia"

The level of creativity Denisova is easy to assess. Here is the very beginning of her "monograph":

Nothing confuses you already in the first few paragraphs? And these are still flowers. It is a shame for such consumer goods of the mid-90s. I know how and why he appeared, I was a direct witness.

[Olgovich]

Quote: Nefarious skeptic

The level of creativity Denisova is easy to assess. Here is the very beginning of her "monograph":

she cites FACTS from statistic books and monographs

Quote: Nefarious skeptic

Nothing confuses you already in the first few paragraphs? And these are still flowers. It is a shame for such consumer goods of the mid-90s. I know how and why he appeared, I was a direct witness.

your grades are nothing

[Foul skeptic]

You are given an excerpt with "facts". Come on, nothing bothers you in what has been written? Or do you not think about what you read and do not check the information? Not surprised.

[Olgovich]

Quote: Nefarious skeptic

You are given an excerpt with "facts"

you are given an ALL monograph with HUNDREDS of FACTS with justifications.

That's when the powerless is nothing will be able to write a monograph refuting these HUNDREDS, then let him come.

But he is incapable. No one. Not surprised

Excellent work (as well as Benzina, etc.), revealing the wild horror of the robbery and destruction of the Russian people, which was done by the completely ignorant anti-people "power"

[Foul skeptic]

Can you point out on the question asked? Why can't you? Are you thinking about what you are reading, checking information? Can you comment on the content of the proposed fragment from the "monograph"? Do you see mistakes in it? Can you name them?

[Olgovich]

Quote: Nefarious skeptic

Can you point out on the question asked?

you are answered in the way deemed necessary and sufficient for you, but what does not reach you, as always, the first time, is not my problem, but the incapable of the powerless

To freedom!

[Foul skeptic]

Yes, you have found it necessary to cowardly avoid direct questions.

[chenia]

Quote: Nefarious skeptic

you don't think

Such a luxury is not permissible for him.

[Foul skeptic]

The most fun of all with this individual would be to communicate directly, so that his real level of "knowledge" becomes immediately visible, without access to Internet resources. The worst thing is that there are people on the forum who consider it "knowledgeable" and "versed".

[chenia]

Quote: A vile skeptic

The most fun of all with this individual would be to communicate directly, so that his real level of "knowledge" becomes immediately visible, without access to Internet resources. The worst thing is that there are people on the forum who consider it "knowledgeable" and "versed".

It should be more fun with him. And you take it too seriously. You often caught his inconsistencies in his own links (and he gives them a lot, with the confidence that hell will someone read them). And you were meticulous. So what? Caught? Does he need the truth?

My advice (you can not accept it), you need to communicate with this frame with a slight mockery (well, so that it would not be too strong). And do not try to convince with arguments.

[Foul skeptic]

My messages are designed not for the "enlightenment" of the addressee of messages, but for the fact that perhaps I will save someone's fragile minds from the heresy that the addressee sprays in the information space. The Internet is a great evil in this, Overton's windows are opening wider and wider.

[chenia]

Yes, in principle, you are right. And good luck to you.

[Vasilenko Vladimir]

Quote: Olgovich

monograph by L. Denisov "The Vanishing Village of Russia".

read the monograph yourself, in it your pink elephants in 1913 are blown away

Quote: Olgovich

Russia, 1906 1266 steam locomotives were produced
USSR 1934 for the first time reached the production of 1210 steam locomotives

can you give a comparative power?

[Olgovich]

Quote: Vasilenko Vladimir

read the monograph yourself, in it your pink elephants in 1913 are blown away

nonsense in comparison with the CATASTROPHY arranged by yours in Russia

Quote: Vasilenko Vladimir

can you give a comparative power?

in spaceships?

[Vasilenko Vladimir]

Quote: Olgovich

in spaceships?

but you really don't understand so much, the required number of steam locomotives directly depends on their power

Quote: Olgovich

nonsense in comparison with the CATASTROPHY arranged by yours in Russia

did you read?
and by the way, to the devil with you, you are afraid to name your age, but the origin, not really from the nobility?

[Olgovich]

Quote: Vasilenko Vladimir

but you really don't understand so much, the required number of steam locomotives directly depends on their power

Do you really not realize that in 20 (TWENTY!) years of rapid technological progress, something HAS to change in any case?

But without your "craftsmen" it would be faster and more and cheaper

Quote: Vasilenko Vladimir

did you read?
and by the way, to the devil with you, you are afraid to name your age, but the origin, not really from the nobility?

I read, of course, and the facts of wild robbery, humiliation and bringing down of Russia and the Russian people by your ignoramuses are given there in a multitude.

From the most noble class of Russia, its foundations are Russian peasants.

Why do you need it? Do you scribble denunciations?

[Vasilenko Vladimir]

Quote: Olgovich

Why do you need it? Do you scribble denunciations?

have not tried to be treated ?!

Quote: Olgovich

Do you really not realize that in 20 (TWENTY!) years of rapid technological progress, something HAS to change in any case?

But without your "craftsmen" it would be faster and more and cheaper

jumped off the answer again, can you hold the power of the locomotives?

[Olgovich]

Quote: Vasilenko Vladimir

have not tried to be treated ?!

Oh no no no. - it didn't help you, but to others ... you advise.

ugly, not Bolshevist

Quote: Vasilenko Vladimir

jumped off the answer again, can you hold the power of the locomotives?

that, again the first time did not reach?
So read one hundred times!

[Bigbraza]

Andrey, have you escaped from this reserve of red Russophobes yet? It is useless to argue with them, this is absolutely sectarian thinking, they most of all want the commissar to return and hit them in the teeth with the handle of a Mauser.
I ran away as soon as I saw Samsonov's opuses next to my articles. This is both a professional slap in the face and, as a human being, somehow disgusting.

[Olgovich]

Quote: BigBraza

Andrey, have you escaped from this reserve of red Russophobes yet? It is useless to argue with them, this is absolutely sectarian thinking, they most of all want the commissar to return and hit them in the teeth with the handle of a Mauser.

Hello Victor.

I remember your articles and regret that they no longer exist.

I think we should go back. There are, as you can see, articles like this one.

And there is interest in them and there is support.

Good luck!

[Vadim237]

And what about these tractors - in the USSR hundreds of thousands of them were riveted until the collapse of the 91st - their efficiency in ensuring the food security of the country as a whole was reduced to zero, so grain abroad was bought in millions of tons and then tens of millions of tons. Because the very initiative to develop everything coming from individuals would be suppressed by the system of a planned distribution economy where one supermonopolist decides everything for everyone - in the person of the state.

[chenia]

Quote: Vadim237

in general, it was reduced to zero so grain abroad was bought in millions of tons and then tens of millions of tons.

Come on, bullshit.
With an increase in the population and a decrease in the percentage of villagers, there are no tractors at all.
Further, to ensure huge livestock production (now it has fallen by almost an order of magnitude), and grain was purchased for this purpose (and do not whine that they were buying first-class grain - here the policy is a heifer, and a ruble is transported).
And what about livestock products (meat and milk). and bakery products in the given prices, and fish products (in comparison with the USSR)?

Quote: Vadim237

the very initiative to develop everything coming from individuals

There would be correlative and fixed prices (for meat from the 60s and until the collapse of the USSR) prices were introduced, and we would see the filling of the shelves (I'm not talking about compliance with GOSTs).
Then we would talk about private initiative.
By the way, chatterboxes, why didn't they buy meat at the bazaar (after all, it always was. And the most expensive is only one and a half times).

[Vasilenko Vladimir]

Quote: chenia

By the way, chatterboxes, why didn't they buy meat at the bazaar (after all, it always was. And the most expensive is only one and a half times).

worst of all for the union lived folk artists and those born after 91

[Olgovich]

Quote: chenia

Come on, bullshit.

so do not carry it.

Quote: chenia

With an increase in the population and a decrease in the percentage of villagers, there are no tractors at all.

kirdyk was expensive tractors that broke down in thousands even before the start of work - there was no such shame anywhere in the world.

And with all the manipulation and hochmization, the yield of 1913 reached only
in 1956 year.
Shame ...

Quote: chenia

Further, to ensure huge livestock raising (now it has fallen by almost an order of magnitude), and grain was purchased precisely for this

they bought it for food, because "successful people" even began to stick peas into bread due to lack of grain, but also cattle dox due to lack of feed

Quote: chenia

And what about livestock products (meat and milk). and baked goods in

your superpowers were able to catch up with 1913 only by the 1950s - even according to their deceitful statistics

Quote: chenia

There would be correlative and fixed prices (for meat from the 60s and until the collapse of the USSR) prices were introduced, and we would see the filling of the shelves (I'm not talking about compliance with GOSTs).
Then we would talk about private initiative.

empty shelves and coupons for women's panties and food - your "achievements" - in PEACEFUL time.

[chenia]

Quote: Olgovich

was expensive tractors,

Tractors and dear ones, what are you talking about? Hang noodles in the next room for the young. and I'm already under seventy).
Although, maybe in your village (where there was no light until the 70s, (and I’m not talking about radio and TV at all), it may not be so lucky. I remember the rest as stories about wartime). And women's cowards in the selmag (even with coupons) did not get.
CHERRY.
And since there were no passports in your village, therefore, you could not visit the regional center (I am not talking about the regional center at all), and some things are unknown to you. I'll try to enlighten. I can assure you - it was not so everywhere. Or rather, it was not so everywhere (and these are Russian cities and Dagestan inclusive, Ukraine, Georgia, Azerbaijan, and for comparison, Hungary and the GDR).

You are out of luck, which is why you are so angry with the Soviet regime.
IT HAPPENS.

[Olgovich]

Quote: chenia

You are out of luck, which is why you are so angry with the Soviet regime.
IT HAPPENS.

of Russia no luck with this so-called. "power".

[Vasilenko Vladimir]

Quote: chenia

Although, maybe in your village

which village, he is still sure that the rolls grow on a breadfruit tree

[Vasilenko Vladimir]

Quote: Olgovich

kirdyk was expensive tractors that broke down in thousands even before the start of work - there was no such shame anywhere in the world.

broke so much that they still work

Quote: Olgovich

they bought it for food, because "successful people" even began to stick peas into bread due to lack of grain, but also cattle dox due to lack of feed

what nonsense, god, at least one link to the document

Quote: Olgovich

empty shelves and coupons for women's panties and food - your "achievements" - in PEACEFUL time.

how old are you?
at home in the family of engineers there were TWO FULL refrigerators, meat was in abundance
about cowards so it's generally idiocy

[Olgovich]

Quote: Vasilenko Vladimir

broke so much that they still work

Yes, millions of units are collected from scrap.
Ask what happened to the "new" tractors, which IMPOSED the collective farms without the right to choose, for example, in the monograph by L. Denisova "The Disappearing Depevnya of Russia

Quote: Vasilenko Vladimir

what nonsense, god, at least one link to the document

what a disgusting ignorance: this is HOW you have to HATE your country so that you don't know its history SO THAT

Quote: Vasilenko Vladimir

how old are you?
at home in the family of engineers there were TWO FULL refrigerators, meat was in abundance
about cowards so it's generally idiocy

Khrushchev I remember well.

TWO cold. only in an abnormal country they put-in order to make supplies, tk. it is NOT possible to buy

Quote: Vasilenko Vladimir

about cowards so it's generally idiocy

-

Ichiota

[Vasilenko Vladimir]

Quote: Olgovich

what a disgusting ignorance: this is HOW you have to HATE your country so that you don't know its history SO THAT

and what did you mean by that?
schedule about nothing

and coupons for 91-92 years are generally ingenious

[Olgovich]

Quote: Vasilenko Vladimir

and what did you mean by that?
schedule about nothing

for the ignorant and the ignorant.

This is not a special school, yes.

Quote: Vasilenko Vladimir

and coupons for 91-92 years are generally ingenious

Coupons were issued in 1990 for 1991.

No war, no earthquakes, after 45 years of peaceful "successful", "rapid" "development."

Like empty shelves FOR EVERYTHING

[Vasilenko Vladimir]

Roughly the same situation was in Petrograd in the fall of 16
And yes, the war was already on, for power

[Olgovich]

Quote: Vasilenko Vladimir

Roughly the same situation was in Petrograd in the fall of 16

ignorance is just outrageous: the situation was BETTER, there were no "coupons" in Petrograd in the fall of 16, and this was in a country that had fought in the World War for more than 2 years!

In the USSR, cards were already several years in the 1980s WITHOUT any war.

and even during the Second World War, people were dying of hunger in the rear, there was even cannibalism.

[Vasilenko Vladimir]

Quote: Olgovich

the idea was BETTER than there were no "coupons" in Petrograd in the fall of 16

it was just hunger, a connoisseur of history damn
Already in the fall of 1916, the rise in grain prices gave rise to a new wave of hunger riots and strikes in industrial areas. On October 17, a spontaneous strike of 30 thousand workers of the Vyborgsky district of Petrograd began. The workers went to the barracks, where the soldiers of the 181st regiment were stationed, and the soldiers joined the workers (although they had no weapons). The Cossacks refused to shoot at the people, the Moscow Life Guards regiment was thrown to suppress the riot, after fierce clashes huge crowds of workers and soldiers were dispersed, 130 soldiers were arrested. However, the strike continued for several more days, and the number of strikers reached 75 thousand [86].

The events of October 17-19, in many respects (lack of bread as the main motivation, spontaneity, surprise, participation of women, the transition of soldiers to the side of the people, the refusal of the Cossacks to shoot at the crowd) resemble the events of February 23-28, 1917, and L. Hameson called them “ a rehearsal for the February Revolution ”[87]. This "rehearsal" alarmed the Ministry of the Interior so much that it hastily sent out circular telegrams to clarify the situation on the ground.

On October 30, the director of the Police Department, AT Vasiliev, presented a report summarizing reports from the provinces. The report said that in all reports without exception, the main reason for the "anger of the masses" is called "monstrously growing dearness." It was pointed out that in Moscow and Petrograd the "oppositional mood" is much higher than the level of 1905, and that if circumstances do not change, then in both cities "major riots of a purely spontaneous nature could break out."

Particularly noted was the report of the chief of the Kronstadt garrison, who warned that troops could not be counted on to suppress riots because of their unreliability.

The wave of hunger strikes in the cities grew rapidly. The fact that since the summer of 1916 the intensity of the labor movement was no longer determined by political and military events, not by the calls of the parties, but by the bare economic reality, is evidenced by the direct correlation that has appeared since that time between the number of strikers and the price of bread.

At the beginning of 1917, it was no longer a question of rising prices, but of the lack of bread. Moscow Mayor MV Chelnokov sent four telegrams to the Chairman of the Council of Ministers, warning that the lack of food "threatens to cause a grain hunger in the coming days, the consequence of which will be acute discontent and unrest on the part of the population of the capital" [112]. On February 23, Yu. P. Guzhon, chairman of the Society of Manufacturers of the Moscow Industrial Region, telegraphed to the Minister of War that as a result of the closure of bakeries, 93 thousand workers did not receive bread: "Factories and plants are suspended, workers are worried, leaving to look for bread" [113]. Thus, the same grandiose hunger riot was brewing in Moscow, which took place in Petrograd.

[Vasilenko Vladimir]

Quote: Olgovich

Khrushchev I remember well.

avoid answering as always

[Vasilenko Vladimir]

Quote: Olgovich

And with all the manipulation and hochmization, the yield of 1913 reached only
in 1956 year.
Shame ...

lying as always

[Olgovich]

Quote: Vasilenko Vladimir

lying as always

are blind? SEE your own schedule!

Except 1937 EXCEPTION (lucky with the weather, but people of hunger in 1937 died in a "nogodny" country -) full pa until 1956, but after that, there were also years with lower yields

[Vasilenko Vladimir]

are you missing eyes?
Or are you so "educated" that you will compare the yield of the war years and the period of recovery?

[Vadim237]

That is, this planned economy did not show its effectiveness - livestock breeding was bred and they could not provide them with fodder, and this despite the fact that there were tens of thousands of collective and state farms in the country. In 1968, they began to chemistry with sausage due to the fact that there was not enough meat for its production in full to provide the population and this replacement of meat continued until the very collapse - it would seem that progress in the agricultural sector did not stand still - but only he did not help the USSR with either grain or meat or everything else. In 1986, the record for grain purchases of 46 million tons from the United States and Canada - here's the crap for ensuring food security and I don't remember that at least one country in the world bought so much grain for feeding cattle, even India where there are more than 500 million cows with which the conclusion suggests itself, this grain purchased by the USSR was used not only for livestock feed, but also for other needs.
There would be relative and fixed (for meat from the 60s and until the collapse of the USSR) prices were introduced. These fixed prices for everything ultimately covered the USSR - because they produced products to the detriment of the budget - in the 80s the lafa ended when a deficit appeared in the USSR budget; large incomes did not cover. And they didn’t buy meat at the bazaar (after all, it was always and the most expensive one and a half times). They bought it — and it was always there because the bazaar was the only system of true individual market relations in the USSR.

[chenia]

Quote: Vadim237

this grain purchased by the USSR was used not only for livestock feed, but also for other needs.

for alcohol. that's for sure. there was a three-year supply of basic foodstuffs, well, and help.
.

Quote: Vadim237

In 1968, they began to chemize sausage due to the fact that there was not enough meat for its production in full to provide the population

You stop telling jokes. And about soybeans, we heard in liberal times.

Quote: Vadim237

only he did not help the USSR either with grain or meat or with everything else.

I have problems with food, I only felt it in Khrushchev's times until 1964 (and then for some positions). And then, when screaming about a deficit, I never felt it on the table. And the people around me too. To whom you did not go, the tables were bursting (from the deficit too).
Strange as that.

Quote: Vadim237

Bazaar is the only system of true individual market relations

But now we have reached the truth, it was necessary to understand the prices multiple times - and get abundance. By the way. this was the case when prices were raised for certain products.
BUT CONSUMPTION DROPPED.

[Vasilenko Vladimir]

Quote: Vadim237

In 1968, they began to chemize sausage due to the fact that there was not enough meat for its production in full to provide the population and this replacement of meat continued until the very collapse - it would seem that progress in the agricultural sector did not stand still - but only he did not help the USSR with either grain or meat or everything else.

you starved at the union

Quote: Vadim237

That is, this planned economy did not show its efficiency - livestock breeding was bred and they could not provide them with fodder, and this despite the fact that there were tens of thousands of collective and state farms in the country

for that now there is no bread or meat

[Vadim237]

For that now nri bread or meat - In your parallel universe may be. Now you can bake your own bread whatever you want, recipes in the internet are filled up and meat, milk and other natural products I buy are correspondingly more expensive as perishable products.

[Vasilenko Vladimir]

Quote: Vadim237

In your parallel universe there may be. Now you can bake whatever bread you want

you really do not understand what they write to you or just not in the subject, first find normal flour, then ferment and not chemical yeast

Quote: Vadim237

and meat, milk and other natural I buy are, respectively, more expensive as perishable products.

my sweetheart, I don't need to buy meat and milk, I'll cut it myself, once again for those who believe in pink ponies, neither I nor people like me are able to feed the country, but there is NO mass quality product

Quote: Vadim237

perishable products.

ANY MILK cannot be stored for more than a day, otherwise it is not milk

[Vadim237]

And normal flour can be found and everything else - everything is available on the market there would be a desire. And there are no pink ponies to believe in them - and such a practice as I do not believe I do not believe but there are concepts IS or NO - Works or does not Work produce and do not produce - but with beliefs, contact the church there, just all mentally retarded are going.

[Vasilenko Vladimir]

Quote: Vadim237

And normal flour can be found and everything else

once again for those who are in the tank, we have a massive food product ... moreover, most of them are not ours

Quote: Vadim237

all mentally retarded people gather there

I already understood about the mentally retarded
if you only knew how many scientists were sincere believers

[Alexey RA]

Quote: chenia

There would be correlative and fixed prices (for meat from the 60s and until the collapse of the USSR) prices were introduced, and we would see the filling of the shelves (I'm not talking about compliance with GOSTs).
Then we would talk about private initiative.

You will also remember Khudenko - how much labor productivity in the countryside can be raised if people work for real money. And how many people are superfluous in the state farm (especially in management).

[Vasilenko Vladimir]

Quote: Vadim237

to ensure the food security of the country as a whole was reduced to zero, so grain abroad was bought in millions of tons and then in tens of millions of tons.

now we do not buy grain, for that we import meat

[Vadim237]

We now have an open market economy with individual entrepreneurship - if you are not aware - one person can sell his products here, the second can export it, and the third can import similar products, and so on. And here you can see the technical progress in the agricultural sector, there are no more tens of thousands of state farms, collective farms and hundreds of thousands of tractors a year do not produce - but food security is ensured and natural products can be found, although you have to pay well for them, since natural ones - they cost money perishable.

[Vasilenko Vladimir]

Quote: Vadim237

and food security is ensured

who told you this nonsense?
God forbid, tomorrow is war, we will have Leningrad everywhere, we have NO import substitution, I tell you as a person living in the countryside, from technology to chickens that we are so proud of all imported or without imports will not grow
For potatoes, the share of imported seeds exceeds 90%, for sunflower - more than 73%, the share of seeds of foreign-bred sugar beet hybrids is 98%

[Vadim237]

Indicators of export and import of CX products - that's who said. - God forbid tomorrow war, we will have Leningrad everywhere, we have NO import substitution - Who do you have no import substitution war with - finish writing crap. And yes, Rostselmash occupies 50% of the domestic market for tractor and combine machinery. "About potatoes, the share of imported seeds exceeds 90%, sunflower - more than 73%, the share of seeds of foreign-bred sugar beet hybrids is 98%" - from 20 to 80% for all crops the largest beets.

[Vasilenko Vladimir]

first, learn how to use the services of the site, well, or at worst, take quotes in quotes

Quote: Vadim237

And yes, Rostselmash occupies 50% of the domestic market for tractor and combine machinery

you read newspapers, but I see equipment in the fields, and so I have never seen a Russian one, either Claes or John Deere

Quote: Vadim237

With whom you do not have a war of what kind of import substitution - finish writing crap.

for goodness sake look at the world through rose-colored glasses

[Vadim237]

You may not have seen it - but I see it and I buy it myself - we have an open market who wants what he wants and buys the farmer or agricultural holdings want to buy John Dirov will buy they want Kirovtsy to buy in the same way and Rostselmash people will also want to buy - now customers decide by the way Classes are already produced in Russia with localization. I don't have any rose-colored glasses - but you really wrote nonsense about some kind of war - there are no suicides in the world who are ready to fight a nuclear power and will never be.

[Vasilenko Vladimir]

Quote: Vadim237

You may not have seen her

poke your finger in the turd

Quote: Vadim237

You really wrote nonsense - there are no suicides in the world who are ready to fight a nuclear power and will never be.

calm down and finally learn to analyze the information you receive

Quote: Vadim237

we have an open market who wants to buy what the farmer or agricultural holdings want to buy Johns Dirov will buy they want Kirovtsy to buy in the same way and they will want to buy from Rostselmash

the question is in the openness of the market, but in the fact that we do not have food safety

[Vasilenko Vladimir]

Quote: Vadim237

and natural products can be found, though you have to pay well for them, since they are natural - they are perishable and cost money.

kindergarten, small producer CANNOT PROVIDE FOOD SECURITY
by definition, he cannot have a completely different task

[Vadim237]

"A small producer CANNOT PROVIDE FOOD SECURITY" - Well, of course, it cannot when this very producer was cut down on the vine by the Soviet government for all the years of its existence - now we have 230000 farms at most - we are now mostly fed by agricultural holdings - and yes, oh a small producer in ensuring food safety above, I did not write anything. And do not worry so what, and I am not going to wind up with my investments in SH.

[Vasilenko Vladimir]

Quote: Vadim237

Well, of course, it cannot when this very manufacturer was cut down on the vine by the Soviet government for all the years of its existence.

forgive me where you live, I am in the countryside, I breed goats and, unlike you, I KNOW what I am writing about

in the Republic of Ingushetia, in the presence of non-slaughtered producers by the Soviet government, there was an annual famine, read what biting is and that often the first time in his life a christening child tasted meat when he was shaved into the soldiers

[Vadim237]

CX business investment is available in the Astrakhan Volgograd and Moscow regions as well as the Altai Republic - the production of milk, cheese and dairy products. RI there was a famine - there was but scientific and technological progress does not stand still in the west, private farmers began to use it and develop the agricultural sector, and in this regard, all private traders from the village came to seams in this regard, they removed someone destroyed the rest, drove into collective farms, thereby destroyed and the initiative to develop the agricultural sector - everything for everyone was decided by the state plan and this for many years until the collapse of the USSR - so we are reaping the benefits that now everywhere agricultural holdings rule and there are few private farmers left and they do not make weather on the market of agricultural products.

[Vasilenko Vladimir]

excuse me, live in the city?

[Andybuts]

so grain abroad was bought in millions of tons and then tens of millions of tons

This is not a consequence of the planned economy as such. The harvests in the RSFSR were quite comparable with the current record ones in the Russian Federation. Cereals were bought for many reasons, first of all, this is the rapid development of animal husbandry - the main purpose of the grown cereals is fodder for livestock. This is the low quality of the bulk of the grown grain, which, according to GOSTs, could not go to the production of bakery products and had to buy high-quality grain (now, with the abolition of GOSTs, this third-grade grain is used as food for us). This is a stupid policy with prices for products cx and subsidies that developed under Khrushchev and Brezhnev, which led to the disinterest of agricultural enterprises in the result of labor. And no one changed this policy, since it essentially demanded a sharp increase in food prices, but it was easier for the degenerating party nomenclature to turn a blind eye to this, compensating for the existing shortcomings with oil revenues. In the second half of the 80s, oil revenues fell, and the problem was already threatening. But at the same time, private initiative in the countryside before collectivization also did not give results for the country as a whole, therefore collectivization was forcefully carried out with all the excesses, but it did bring results. And in the 90s and early 2000s, the cx was in complete desolation, no "market mechanisms" and "private initiative" led to positive shifts, until they resumed subsidizing the agro-industrial complex in Russia and carried out industry reforms, perhaps a few of successful in the current Russian Federation.

[Vadim237]

Cereals were bought for many reasons, first of all, this is the rapid development of animal husbandry - the main purpose of the grown cereals is fodder for livestock. Once again, not a single country in the world has bought as much grain as the USSR, even India, from which there were three times more cows than the USSR. And yes, these purchases as a vivid indicator that the planned distribution economy could not cope with the provision of that very developing animal husbandry.
This is a stupid policy with prices for products cx and subsidies that developed under Khrushchev and Brezhnev, which led to the disinterest of agricultural enterprises in the result of labor. Without subsidies in the USSR Union of Artists, everything would be very bad - and what kind of interest of agricultural enterprises in the results of labor is - you probably forgot that all of them were run by the state giving out a plan, what the hell to them what to invent - sit on your ass, exactly fulfill the set volumes according to the plan and get a fixed wages - so the planned distribution economy destroyed all the incentive to increase production, and it’s in all spheres, sit and do business instead of you, the state will think and its planning institutions. This incentive is now in the form of profit and development on an individual basis.
But at the same time, private initiative in the countryside before collectivization also did not give results for the country as a whole, therefore collectivization was forcefully carried out with all the excesses, but it did bring results. What else it gave - before the creation of any collective farms for dispossession and others, and a significant share in the growth of agricultural enterprises was brought not by collective farms in the 30s, but by the introduction of MTS - collective farms were created for one purpose so that everything that they grew to keep under state lockdown in the state barn from which, if necessary the state could take everything - leaving the collective farmers a fig in the form of workdays and from the slave labor legalized at the state level, the peasant could not get away because he did not have a passport, respectively, in such conditions, there could be no question of any labor incentive and there could be no question of the Union of Artists of the USSR even with the introduction of a huge amount of technology, people began to degrade sharply from the villages as soon as they began to issue passports to them in the USSR in the 60s and 70s there were several programs for the development of the middle zone and villages of the villages - they all failed.

[Andybuts]

not collective farms in the 30s, but the introduction of MTS

MTS were created along with collective farms to provide them with equipment. It is impossible to separate one from the other, there would be no collective farms, there would be no MTS

collective farms were created for one purpose so that everything that they grew to keep under state lockdown in the state barn from which, if necessary, the state could take everything

you confuse with state farms, these are state farms owned by the state, the collective farm is something like a cooperative in the countryside

the peasant could not go anywhere since he did not have a passport

Where did the workers for the newly built thousands of enterprises come from? How did the share of the urban population grow from 17-18% in the mid-20s to 33-35% by 1939 (before the annexation of Western Belarus and Ukraine and the Baltic states)? there was no such serfdom

[chenia]

Quote: Olgovich

crunch the bones of queens and rocoss

One general designer, another Marshal of victory - what's the problem?
I do not know for what mistakes Rokossovsky was in prison (by the way, he never blamed Stalin). but Korolev (as well as Vavilov, and Glushko, and Tupolev) was sitting, for sawing the dough (well, this is according to the modern).

[Olgovich]

Quote: chenia

One general designer, another Marshal of victory - what's the problem?

break your jaw and the problem will become clearer

Quote: chenia

... but Korolev (as well as Vavilov, and Glushko, and Tupolev) was sitting for sawing the dough (well, this is according to the modern).

they are all OFFICIALLY JUSTIFIED, and no one has taken paranoid verdicts of psychopaths seriously for a long time

[chenia]

Quote: Olgovich

and no one has taken paranoid sentences of psychopaths seriously for a long time

And here it is not necessary to base. While there was GIRD no one was touched. When it became a research institute with a bunch of projectiles, and all programs were overwhelmed (the only thing is the creation of imperfect PCs with degraded dispersion). And the guys began to write (knock). Each other. Well, everyone knows the story about Tupolev.
And here's what's interesting. You are so zealous for the peasant plundered by the Soviet regime, and so condescending to those who ineptly profited the funds taken from him.
Strange as that.

[Olgovich]

Quote: chenia

so condescending to those who ineptly profiled the funds taken from him.
Strange as that.

A GIFT, how is it?

ONCE AGAIN, they are ALL JUSTIFIED, "the sentences are bullshit, worth ANYTHING

[chenia]

Quote: Olgovich

A GIFT, how is it?

This is how, for example, Korolev later began to work (by the way, he is not a brilliant scientist (this is more Glushko), but a brilliant organizer). So much so that we were the first to launch a satellite and a man into space.
The person felt responsibility.

Quote: Olgovich

break your jaw and the problem will become clearer

Heh. CCM (in the past) in boxing, and broke his jaw (the knuckles of the ring and little fingers are still knocked out).

[Olgovich]

Quote: chenia

This is how, for example, Korolev later began to work (by the way, he is not a brilliant scientist (this is more Glushko), but a brilliant organizer). So much so that we were the first to launch a satellite and a man into space.
The person felt responsibility.

Are you WHO to determine what is free and what is not? NONE of this and proceed.
They are ALL justified, and the trials and their organizers are condemned by the USSR

Quote: chenia

CCM (in the past) in boxing, and broke his jaw (the knuckles of the ring and little fingers are still knocked out).

and good means the problem is clear. And what do you ask then?

[Vasilenko Vladimir]

Quote: Olgovich

they are all OFFICIALLY JUSTIFIED

Khrushchev?

Quote: Olgovich

and no one has taken paranoid sentences of psychopaths seriously for a long time

I'm already starting to worry about your health

[Olgovich]

Quote: Vasilenko Vladimir

Khrushchev?

the USSR

Quote: Vasilenko Vladimir

I'm already starting to worry about your healthаlays

It was necessary to worry about the health of the sick, for whom almost the entire top of the USSR turned out to be ... spies, saboteurs and Gestapo men, like ... most of the relatives of the secretary general (brothers / sisters of wives, their husbands / wives, children, son-in-law, daughter-in-law, matchmaker ), and for your health, if this seems to be healthy

[Vasilenko Vladimir]

Quote: Olgovich

the USSR

do you have a document?

[Olgovich]

Quote: Vasilenko Vladimir

do you have a document?

READ MORE, nvezhda.

[Dmitry from Voronezh]

The GDP growth is given in the article, as well as the estimate of per capita income, as well as the growth of national income.

[Vasilenko Vladimir]

Quote: Dmitry from Voronezh

The GDP growth is given in the article, as well as the estimate of per capita income, as well as the growth of national income.

I saw manipulations and outright lies, but the rest ...

In terms of the absolute standard of living of the people, the USSR caught up with tsarist Russia only by the beginning of the 1960s

in what the standard of living was measured, about the absence of hunger, this is generally an outright LIE

[Vadim237]

By the way, they did not write about the absence of hunger in the article.

[Vasilenko Vladimir]

Quote: Vadim237

By the way, they did not write about the absence of hunger in the article.

Was there a famine in the Russian Empire?

Hunger in the empire has long been manipulated.

But mass hunger leads to leaps in mortality. They can be seen, for example, in the 1920s and 1930s. There are no such leaps in the empire. The mortality rate is constantly decreasing, and its fluctuations are decreasing. A transport system is being created at a record pace, which makes it possible to transfer food and medicine to the regions in need.

[Vadim237]

And where did you see the phrase about "Zero hunger in the Republic of Ingushetia"?

[Vasilenko Vladimir]

read carefully and comprehend, preferably the food safety seme is better

[Vadim237]

"Hunger in the empire has long been manipulated." - Where is it written here about the absence of Hunger in the Republic of Ingushetia? Finish fooling your head.

[Vasilenko Vladimir]

Quote: Vadim237

Finish fooling your head.

learn to read everything

But mass hunger leads to leaps in mortality. They can be seen, for example, in the 1920s and 1930s. There are no such leaps in the empire.

[Vadim237]

"Learn to read everything" - And you would learn to delve into what is written. In the fact that you brought not a word about the fact that there was no famine in Ingushetia - it says that there was no mass famine in the 20th and 30ths in Ingushetia. Once again, finish fooling your head.

[Vasilenko Vladimir]

Quote: Vadim237

- it says that there was no mass famine of the 20s and 30s in the Republic of Ingushetia. Once again, finish fooling your head.

this is exactly what lies

[Foul skeptic]

The GDP growth is given in the article, as well as the estimate of per capita income, as well as the growth of national income.

Aren't you confused by the use of an indicator like GDP?

[210ox]

Let's take "Patchwork Empire" for example. With a certain amount of stretch, it can be called a dynamically developing state. Powerful industry producing modern equipment, agriculture. Not to mention Germany, France, Britain. Russia was only at the beginning of its development, lagging behind for decades.

[KVIRTU]

If everything were so good, would Bessarabia go to Romania in the 18th? Annexed on the sly. It would not have been necessary to deploy the headquarters of the Southern Front on the basis of the KVO in the summer of the 40th. To return. This operation, which was successful, in many ways set the shap-hacking tone of the summer of 41.

[Aag]

Quote: 210ox

Why not. Events of the late 18th century in France - a palace coup? Such a small affair.

Maybe due to the fact that you did not live in Times, in those places? ... A tearfulness, it is ... (for a clear understanding of the situation, you must agree, more is required.)
True, it is difficult to judge (it is useful to know, moreover, it is necessary, in order to judge the current events).

[210ox]

Revolution of 1905? Come on. Lost war in the Far East, famine in the late 19th-early 20th century, etc. External involvement was minimal. In the cities, food prices crawled up, the plight of industrial workers (although this was everywhere then in the world of developing countries). By the way, on the Transsib. The construction of the railway was then ubiquitous throughout the world, RI even remained somewhat in the pace of construction and one of the reasons for the defeat in the Russo-Japanese war was the low traffic capacity of this road. By the way, the Soviet government dealt with this problem during the Second World War. There was nothing lamp in that empire. The rich were fattening, the rest of the people, under 90%, fought for survival.

[Olgovich]

Quote: 210ox

Lost war in the Far East

A Russian man for the FIRST time entered the land of the future Vladivostok in just ... FORTY years before RYAV. Several THOUSAND kilometers of taiga, world rivers, mountains from native Russia. And - he held the Far East, for during this MINIMAL period he built, as in a fairy tale, an amazing powerful city and fortress and equipped the Far East

Quote: 210ox

famine in the late 19th-early 20th century, etc.

you just don’t know WHAT hunger is, but hunger is when people eat their children and corpses from the cemetery, as it was in the peacetime of the 1930s. In Russia, remember, there was not even a trace of this in the New History
with

Quote: 210ox

The construction of the railway was then ubiquitous around the world, RI even remained somewhat in terms of the pace of construction

lie

Quote: 210ox

one of the reasons for the defeat in the Russo-Japanese War was the low traffic capacity of this road.

But NO ONE country in the world had SUCH a unique, advanced road.

Quote: 210ox

By the way, the Soviet government dealt with this problem during the Second World War.

sov the government in its entire life could not even build ANY bridge longer than the Alekseevsky bridge and ANY battleship that were mass-produced by Russia

Quote: 210ox

There was nothing lamp in that empire.

Always remember this when you turn on the TV: the first television broadcast in the world took place in Russia in 1911, the same with the radio, etc.

Quote: 210ox

The rich were fattening, the rest of the people, under 90%, fought for survival.

this is exactly what happened in the "hot" country in the 1920s, 30,40s, 50s and XNUMXs.

[Falcon5555]

It is interesting to look at the maps of railways up to 17 years old and now. In some areas, there are no differences. We drive along the roads built during the "decaying tsarism".

[Kayala]

Come on, but who overthrew the king? "Colored revolutionaries" or your own environment? In general, the author's attempts to paint a blissful picture in the Republic of Ingushetia with a bloody passion-bearer are ridiculous. The result of this goodness is two lost wars and three revolutions! And that says it all, and the author's attempts look like pulling an owl onto a globe.

[Region-25.rus]

In general, the author's attempts to paint a blissful picture in the Republic of Ingushetia with a bloody passion-bearer are ridiculous.

well so. this is the modern policy of the "party and government"

[Kayala]

As I understand it, the current thieves want to legitimize the rights to what was privatized from the USSR and secure the right of ownership forever. And for this to try to return the estate system. I just don't understand, but what role in this theater of absurdity will the premature heir to the Russian throne play? Or does he really believe that after Putin he will be put on the throne?

[Region-25.rus]

Or does he really believe that after Putin he will be put on the throne?

Of course no. Just as a "legalized decoration" for stubborn admirers of autocracy

[Vadim237]

They have already secured it - by reselling several times and creating a joint-stock company - shares have spread all over the world to take back all this, it is simply impossible to have to pay a lot of money to return it all.
"I just don't understand, what role will the premature heir to the Russian throne play in this theater of absurdity? Or does he really believe that after Putin he will be put on the throne?" Who is he and why should he sit on the throne after Putin?

[paul3390]

A revolution is a change in the social order. Everything else is banal pronunciamento, that is to say, coups. Including color, for force and show-off called revolutions.

[Aag]

Quote: 210ox

Yes, the Author has arranged it well on the shelves. Only a small nuance - in a dynamically developing empire, coups, revolutions, etc. are not made. There are certainly reasons for them, including economic ones.

From the final article .- "...
The revolutions of 1917 set the country back decades. The level of 1913 GDP of the USSR reached about 1928-1929 ... ".

Nothing that PMA, Civilian ... Sorry, we have not achieved such growth even now (I agree, in incommensurably comfortable conditions).

[Dmitry from Voronezh]

Before the February coup, which provoked the growing chaos in the country, there was no big drop in GDP. Now I can't give exact figures, but rather, there was growth in a number of industries, industry grew in gross terms during the war years. As for the civil war, is it worth referring to it, because this is a direct result of the revolutions of 1917, and the main message of the article is that the best development option is the one in which the country would have avoided a revolutionary explosion.

[210ox]

Yes, the best option is without revolutions. But the ruling elite did everything to make THREE revolutions happen in the country in a little over a decade. KARL-THREE. This is all you need to know about a developing country with an intensive pace, convertible ruble and other goodies. For a narrow group of people. This theme was raised in the movie Sunstroke, although the quality of this picture is debatable.

[Andybuts]

This theme was raised in the movie Sunstroke, although the quality of this picture is debatable.

why argue about this picture. She is deceitful and one-sided, like all the pseudo-historical picture of this nobleman

[Olgovich]

Quote: Dmitry from Voronezh

there was no big drop in GDP.

moreover, in Russia there was a GROWTH of industrial production in PMV, in contrast to other countries.

Excellent article

[210ox]

Excellent article, I admit it. For those who especially believe in the crunch of French bread. And I know about that time from the story of my great-grandfather a-he was born in 1890 in the Smolensk province. It was a hungry and hard time. He compared this to the years of Soviet power.

[Vadim237]

Alas, in the USSR, they never created their "French rolls" for all the time - that's why it collapsed and that's why you and I and everyone else still use and crunch "French rolls"

[Olgovich]

Quote: 210ox

Excellent article, I admit it. For those who are especially believers in the crunch of French bread

for lovers of the crunching of bones of queens and rocossos, of course, she is like a bone in the throat

Quote: 210ox

And I know about that time from the story of my great-grandfather a-he was born in 1890 in the Smolensk province. It was a hungry and hard time. He compared this to the years of Soviet power.

and I have great-grandfather, grandfather, mother from there.

The times were much more difficult and hungry with the advice before 1960.

Then it felt better, yes, only people have already REMOVED from that convict owls. "Paradise", where they met the 50th anniversary of Okhtyabr at a torch

[Aag]

Quote: Dmitry from Voronezh

Before the February coup, which provoked the growing chaos in the country, there was no big drop in GDP. Now I can't give exact figures, but rather, there was growth in a number of industries, industry grew in gross terms during the war years. As for the civil war, is it worth referring to it, because this is a direct result of the revolutions of 1917, and the main message of the article is that the best development option is the one in which the country would have avoided a revolutionary explosion.

It is worth referring to the civil one, if only to understand the situation ...
It seems, Dear Author, you are drowning for (no, you are selling it openly ..), - "We do not need revolutionary upheavals!"
I admit: I would also like to. As a child, I listened to the stories of my grandmother (born 01.01.1900/XNUMX/XNUMX), and I always thought - how did these people go through everything ?!
It is described in many works of the classics (now called from the content) how and what does in such situations.
But.
Firstly, I would not like to be taken advantage of by external enemies ...
With regards to internal enemies, ... they do not consider themselves as such, together with part of the electorate (well, or maybe they know something that is unknown to more and more of the population) ...

[Fitter65]

Quote: 210ox

Yes, the Author has arranged it well on the shelves.

Only the author did not mention what percentage of mechanization was in agriculture? Backward technologies in agriculture prevailed, they took only due to the number of sown areas ... And at the expense of the famine in the Republic of Ingushetia, it was not simply "crop failure". You can't plow a lot with one plow, even with such areas.

In the last four years before the First World War, the number of newly established joint stock companies increased by 132%, and the capital invested in them almost quadrupled.

True, how many of these societies were founded by the common population, peasants and workers, and how many were there in these societies?

A number of pre-revolutionary economic indicators (steel smelting, pig iron smelting, coal mining, production of building materials, construction of railways) surpassed even the industrialization indicators of the 1930s in terms of their growth rates. At the same time, it is quite indicative that many of these indicators (including the production of mechanical engineering and metalworking products) in the Soviet Union reached the absolute values ​​of the Russian Empire only by 1928–1929. That is, for ten (!) Years, the country's economy was only recovering after the revolutions of 1917.

So yes, over the years of the First world industry was on the rise, but the revolutions once and everything collapsed. If anything, the civil war officially lasted until 1922. part of the territories with industrial enterprises was lost, many enterprises were destroyed, there were only a few specialists. and after 7 years we reached the pre-war level! Smelting steel, pig iron and coal mining is cool. Only here in Fancia, which is much smaller than Russia, one Peugeot plant, in one pre-war year, produced more cars than in Tsarist Russia in 6 pre-war years, and even those (produced in RI) were equipped with engines and other high-tech parts brought from behind frontier. Yes, it seems like in RI there were "the best in the world" SINGLE copies of engines, but no more. And the production of cars is a more technologically advanced production than the smelting of pig iron. Simple bicycle spokes were not produced in Russia either. The bulk of instruments and bearings for the "best in the world" Russian steam locomotives were imported from abroad. The bulk of the aircraft fleet was either purchased abroad or produced under license, and the engines, again, for these vehicles were imported. And how many "the world's best steam locomotives" produced in Ingushetia were exported? And to improve the economy, a literate population is needed, with whom Russia was not very good, to put it mildly. The bulk of engineers and other technical elite were foreign citizens. So, if you wish, you can pull an owl onto a globe in an easy way, especially if the owl is large, and the globe is small and triangular.

[Dmitry from Voronezh]

History shows that revolutions also occur in the most prosperous countries. For example, in England in the 99th century, or in France in the XNUMXth century. There are reasons for the revolution, but not so much economic as they lie in the minds of people. A revolution is simply the choice of the most active, most passionate part of society. A revolution is very far from romance or concern for the welfare of people, XNUMX% is a cruel and uncompromising struggle for power. And in the Russian Empire at the beginning of the twentieth century, there was a change in the consciousness of the most active part of the people. This part wished to get involved in the process of governing the country, the Tsar interfered with this - hence the February revolution.

[Fanur Galiev]

Well-being in France in the 18th century .... One question, but who had well-being? Among the peasants, who then, by the way, also constituted the majority of the population of France? Or the ruling elite of that state, like aristocrats, feudal lords, nobles with the king?

[demo]

Economic reasons cause revolution from below.
Political reasons cause revolution from above.
In Ingushetia there is a situation when the economic class - industrialists, the bourgeoisie, bankers decided that they had enough. The imperial autocracy must be eliminated.
And RI is being pulled into the 1st World War.
The situation changes dramatically from blissful to desperate. Millions of healthy breadwinners are dying.
Despair in the country.
And the first BOURGEOIS revolution takes place.
But there is no clear plan for transforming the political system. There are dozens of parties. Everyone pulls the blanket to their side.
Power is inactive. Or makes mistake after mistake.
And here representatives of the RSDLP come to the fore.
Although the name contains the word - the workers' party, but the workers, as such, are there with a gulkin's nose.
And then the second revolution takes place, PROLETARIAN.

This is very short.
For clarity.

[Andybuts]

The author has arranged it well on the shelves. Only a small nuance

a small nuance is that the author used only data convenient for the crushers, referred only in fact to one researcher Gregory (although there are many of them), never mentioned from which base the growth in Western Europe or the USA is compared with the growth in Russia, nor no words about the structure of the economy and the distribution of income among the population.
There is, for example, the following data:

from them you can see how far we lagged behind the main workshops of the world in the USA, Great Britain and Germany.
Nothing is said where and how commercial agricultural production grew. It grew in large export-oriented farms and did not affect the bulk of the peasants who ran their farms as they did two or three centuries earlier, and in addition suffered from land shortages (or overpopulation) - a problem that has not yet been 80-100 years old. It was. The land issue was the main one for the country, and it was not resolved in any way. It is not said that the export of grain from the country did not decrease even in the years of famine, which happened more and more often.
The graphs from the author with a simple interpolation of the growth of indicators at the beginning of the century into the future and comparing them with the real achievements of the USSR are simply delusional. As if crises, wars, new players on the market in the twentieth century were absent. It is quite possible to give the example of Britain, Germany or France where there will be +/- the same charts, and certainly not the same growth every year.
The situation with economic inequality, which in the Republic of Ingushetia was even worse than now in the Russian Federation, has not been touched upon.
For example, such graphs are not shown:

and it follows from them that in the period from 1870 to 1913 RI lagged behind in terms of GDP per capita dynamics both from Western Europe and from the whole world as a whole. But in the period from 1913 to 1950, on the contrary, in the USSR (or the former Republic of Ingushetia, but without Poland and Finland), this indicator grew faster than in other regions. Despite the First World War, the devastating civil war and the devastating Great Patriotic War.
Those. according to these data, the author's theses that

at the beginning of the twentieth century, Russia was a rich country

и

In terms of the absolute standard of living of the people, the USSR caught up with Tsarist Russia only by the beginning of the 1960s, having lost half a century, and in terms of relative, in comparison with other most developed countries, it never caught up with the Russian Empire.

seem completely deceitful.
Nothing was said about the increase in the number of strikes and strikes by more than 10 times from 1910 to 1913, about the Lena execution was not mentioned. About the dominance of foreign capital. And much more.
In general, the way "the author put everything on the shelves" reminds of the news from the first channel or the officialdom of the newspapers of the late USSR, from which it was possible to understand that there were no problems in the country. The problems were silenced, the necessary data was selected, and it turned out to be just a cry for Russia, which we have lost.

[Vadim237]

Russia was in the first five countries in the world in terms of GDP - and to call it densely lagging behind, as some are joking, it will not turn out that it produced less than the rest of the Western countries in this five, yes - how many things were bought from us at that time and produced from There is no point in comparing the indicators of the USSR - since the economy was different in RI, there was a market economy with business planning based on real demand - in the USSR, planned distribution, based on top-down calculations of state planning institutions, production for five years in advance - there was no calculation of real demand.

[Andybuts]

but what to call a country in which 70-80% of the population cannot read and write, except as densely backward?

there was a market in RI with business planning based on real demand

business planning was also formed in the West in the 50-60s of the twentieth century, and the beginnings of its study can be sought after the crises of the 20-30s (including the Great Depression). And with the study of "real demand" in the Republic of Ingushetia it was much worse than with the expression of the people in the Russian Federation at the elections in September. There was the wildest capitalism in Ingushetia, cleaner than the 90s
and it is quite possible and necessary to compare different types of economy, at least from the point of comparison of their effectiveness. Well, the demand in the USSR was determined taking into account the need, and not from the bulldozer, as you think

[Vadim237]

But you just look at the export indicators of the uneducated country of Ingushetia and compare them with the indicators of the formed USSR in monetary terms and you go nuts

the earnings of the USSR fell sharply, and this despite the fact that industrialization was underway

[ABC-schutze]

Yes, that's not even the point ...

The author is elementarily incorrect in his "methodological" approach, supposedly called upon to "objectively substantiate" his theses.

It reads:

"... the author decided to publish a new article containing additional facts in support of the sounded point of view. The article examines the rates of economic growth of the Russian Empire before the First World War, the development of its industry, the growth of the welfare of citizens. make quite unambiguous conclusions. "

The "decision made" is commendable. But ...

What is "compared" with what and on what objective scientific basis? ..

In the Russian Empire, under Alexander No. 3 and in the initial period of the reign of his son Nicholas No. 2, we have the INITIAL period of capitalist INDUSTRIAL development. When, ANYWHERE and EVERYWHERE, the pace of development is higher.

And in the objects of the author's "comparisons" (the same USA and Germany), the INITIAL period of INDUSTRIAL development began THREE DECADES EARLIER.

And here is the "picture" ...

Three decades after the end of the Civil War proved to be a record for the United States in terms of economic development. Even in spite of the crises of 1873 and 1893, the economy grew at an average annual rate of 5% during this period. FIVE%, FOR 30 YEARS ...

For this, the author, if he has set himself the task of objective analysis, must compare CONCEPTUALLY comparable things, and not "seemingly similar pictures."

That is, the rate of industrial development of Russia in the initial period with the rate of industrial development of the United States and Germany in the initial period. And here, alas, the Russian Empire, that under Alexander No. 3, that under his son Nicholas No. 2, there is nothing to boast about.

And over time, the pace of development objectively decreases. Even without any "crises".

And the author is simply manipulating, "comparing" the initial rates of development of Russian industrial capitalism, with the rates of the already "established" development of industrial capitalism in the USA and Germany. What is not right ...

And so you can "walk" almost the entire chain of his "illustrations", from the development of transport to the development of agricultural production ...

As for the allegedly "effective" logistics created in the Republic of Ingushetia to provide food aid to the hungry, here the best illustration of this "efficiency" will be Kasvinov, with his "Twenty-three steps down ...".

We read ...

“Millions of poor people suffer in hunger-stricken provinces, many perish.” There is no passage from those asking for bread neither in the village nor in the estate. They are surrounded by a crowd. The picture is heartbreaking ... The diseases developed in a strong degree: smallpox, typhus and scurvy. "

V.N.Lamsdorf writes this in his diary. Of course, the tsar-father is depressed, does not sleep at night, is he ashamed and in pain? No matter how it is. The dignitary observing him from a close distance “is horrified by the attitude of the sovereign and the intimate circle of the imperial family to the disaster. His Majesty does not want to believe in hunger. At breakfast in a close circle, he talks about him almost with a laugh; finds that most of the benefits distributed are a means of demoralizing the people, laughs at the persons who went to the place to help ... This point of view seems to be shared by the whole family ... "

“From all over the country, requests are coming to St. Petersburg: to organize organized aid to the starving. The tsar and the government refer to the lack of funds in the treasury. the purchase of bread for the hungry. Not a single bank agreed to the deal. A new idea is being put forward: to open a wide charitable campaign across the empire. St. Petersburg "Government Gazette" publishes an appeal for donations. Not everyone in high-ranking circles is sure that this campaign is any serious will ease the situation. "

"Rumors that the sovereign donated millions of rubles from specific sums in favor of the starving are false ... A charity lottery has been arranged ... The use of such an extreme measure to get a meager sum of five million is subject to general criticism ... If this kind of lottery usually has a demoralizing effect, then what will it be with this one, with coupons of one ruble? .. At the same time, there is no control over the spending of the collected amounts, and significant waste has already been made in various places ”(Lamsdorf, Diary, pp. 207–208).

Nevertheless, by the forces of the public, something significant was done. Volunteers and activists from the people themselves collected money around the country, bought bread and sent it to poverty-stricken areas, opened canteens on the ground (L.N. Tolstoy was busy).

And further, about the imperial "logistics", WE READ CAREFULLY ...

"A certain Colonel von Wendrich distinguished himself in this respect, a close associate of the tsar, at that time an inspector of the Ministry of Railways (later - Deputy Minister of Railways). Sent by the Special Commissioner to the affected areas, he disorganized freight traffic on the central railways, drove into dead ends ELEVEN THOUSAND CARS with GRAIN, six and a half million poods of rye and wheat got wet on the blocked roads and began to rot. And he added: "There will always be a lot of begging people, but such faithful people as Vendrich, one, two - and not enough."

Not bad, right? ..

[Vladimir_2U]

Quote: tihonmarine

Thanks to the author for the article.

In terms of the absolute standard of living of people, the USSR caught up with tsarist Russia only by the beginning of the 1960s, having lost half a century

The level of the article is clear.
Yes, the author tried, wrote a wonderful article based on the work of wonderful historians, one:

Borisyuk Andrey Anatolyevich - historian, researcher, specialist in the modern history of Russia. He studied at the orthodox gymnasium named after I. Konstantin Bogorodsky (Noginsk). Higher education (bachelor's, master's, postgraduate studies) - Faculty of History, St. Tikhon's Orthodox University. (2018 release)., another:

Paul Roderick Gregory (born February 10, 1941, San Angelo, Texas) - American economist, professor at the University of Houston, researcher at the Hoover Institution, researcher at the German Institute for Economic Research in Berlin [1], specialist in economic history Russia and the USSR. .. .... Co-editor (with L. I. Borodkin and O. V. Khlevnyuk) of the book "The GULAG: The Economics of Forced Labor." - M .: ROSSPEN, 2008.
Based on the book "Women of the Gulag" by Gregory, director and producer Marianna Yarovskaya filmed the documentary "Women of the Gulag"

[Akuzenka]

So many letters and "numbers" from "independent and most faithful" sources. And you finish reading and you hear crunch-crunch-crunch-crunch. Strange, the author did not answer the question why such a "powerful" RI was inferior in this to such a "weak" Germany in those years? Yes, okay Germany, Austria-Hungary, (further obscenities). Probably wonderful to live in such a fictional world ?! Live on, author, the reality is completely different.

[knn54]

Wherein:
-66% of the shares of the Lena Gold Industrial Partnership (Lenzoto) belonged to the BRITISH company Lena Goldfields.
-In 1876, the Nobel brothers organized an oil company in Baku for the extraction and processing of oil, which later became the largest oil company in Russia, which completely ousted the Rockefeller company "Standard Oil" from the Russian market. The Nobel brothers owned oil fields, dozens of oil refineries, oil tankers, barges, railways, hotels, etc. Also Britain.
- "Sponsors" Hughes, Jung, Otto, Koch, Bradle, Ellisen ... Their firms mined almost 60% of the entire coal mass of the Don region.
-By 1911, 140 enterprises belonged to "Russian Germans"
Etc

[Kayala]

And if you remember how many belonged to the French in RI, then it will immediately become clear why RI was dragged by the ears into the Entente, and not into the triple alliance.

[Fat]

Quote: knn54

The Nobel brothers owned oil fields, dozens of oil refineries, oil tankers, barges, railways, hotels, etc. Also Britain.

Nikolay. You shouldn't count the Nobel brothers among the British - the Swedes. This is a completely Russian joint-stock company (a different matter - shares, very liquid)
And Emmanuel Ludvigovich Nobel has been a citizen of Ingushetia since 1889, and he was born in St. Petersburg ... It's amazing, foreign capitalists were eager to settle in Russia along with their capitals. It is clear that the prospects for "robbing" were excellent and they would not have gone anywhere - they would have become Russified, like many other "Germans" before them.
The majority fled from Russia only after nationalization because they lost everything. E. Nobel left his homeland - Russia in the summer of 1918. From 1920 he took part in the activities of the Russian Trade, Industrial and Financial Union (Torgprom). In 1923 he again accepted Swedish citizenship.

[Dart2027]

Quote: Thick

It is surprising that foreign capitalists were eager to settle in Russia along with their capitals.

What's surprising? A developing country is an opportunity for active business development.

[Fat]

Of course! How quickly China has risen on foreign capital is obvious. Aliens imperialists brought both capital and technology, charging for the cheapness of labor resources, now they bite their elbows

[Sam-07]

if only ... everything had already happened. the dotted line in the graph cannot replace facts.

[svp67]

Steel smelting: 1892-1916 - an increase of 4,7 times, 1916-1940. - an increase of 4,3 times.
Iron smelting: 1892-1916 - an increase of 4,2 times, 1916-1940. - an increase of 3,9 times.
Coal mining: 1892-1916 - an increase of 8,5 times, 1916-1940. - an increase of 4,8 times.
Electricity generation: 1916 - 2,6 billion kWh, 1924 - 1,6 billion kWh.
Brick production: 1894–1913 - growth by 4 times, 1913-1940. - an increase of 2,2 times.
Glass production: 1894–1913 - growth by 4,5 times, 1913-1940. - growth by 1,9 times.
Cement production: 1894-1913 - 15 times growth, 1913-1940 - growth by 3 times.

I love these calculations ... It's called a SCAM. Is it possible in specific figures? And then, if from the period from 1894 to 1913 instead of ONE brick we produced FOUR times, then this is an increase of FOUR times, but if from 1913 to 1940 we have already produced EIGHT bricks, then this is an increase in total, then TWO times ... numbers, not this abstractness.
After all, the author does not indicate anywhere that during this time the industrially developed territories were lost and the USSR had to create a lot from scratch.

Change in the number of schools: 1894-1914 - 2 times growth, 1914-1928 - decline by 1,1 times.
Change in the number of students: 1894-1914 - growth by 3 times, 1914-1928. - growth by 1,2 times.
Change in the number of hospitals: 1903-1913 - growth by 1,5 times, 1914 - 1928 - decline by 1,5 times.

This is generally OUTSIDE CRITICISM ... Why not the 1940 cutoff? As before ...
The territory DECREASED after 1914, the developed POLAND and FINLAND left, and nevertheless ...
The number of schools in 1913 (thousand) - 77,3 (urban - 8,3, rural - 69)
in 1940 - 116,9 (urban - 14,4, rural - 102,5)
Growth UNDoubtful
For schoolchildren, in 1913 (thousand people) - 5,2
in 1940 - 12 !!!!!!!!! Do not subtract, do not add
Number of hospitals: in 1913 - 2992 (urban - 918, rural - 2074)
in 1940 - 8797 (urban - 3085, rural - 5712)
So in my opinion it is much clearer ...

[Revival]

That's right!
Therefore, the volumes are not translated, otherwise the beautiful graphics will fade to the point of impossibility.
What about the schedules for the production of motors and machine guns at the peak of the development of the industry, for example, in 1913 and onwards, and this with an extreme exertion of forces for their production, war, everything to the front, so what does the schedule for machine guns look like?
I especially liked about accounts and savings, and we still see how much money is on average, but only 90% of them have accounts of "10 thousand" if you're lucky, and 1% trillions, and yes, on average, in terms of the total volume of deposits well-being grows "for all".

[svp67]

Quote: Revival

Therefore, the volumes are not translated, otherwise beautiful graphs will crumble.

Especially if you also indicate the size of the territory, the number of population, for these periods ...

Quote: Revival

What's with the schedules for the production of motors and machine guns?

Yes, there is generally any question of mechanical engineering, for example, the number of aircraft factories built, the number of aircraft produced by them, the number of specialists working in the aviation industry ...

[Revival]

The old version: "they rebelled against the caring government with fat, with dope, with" iPhones ", well dressed" ...
State Department agents on foreign grants, the fifth column of the peasants of the Russian empire, you need to understand?

[paul3390]

What kind of mechanical engineering can we talk about in a country that did not even produce bearings on its own?

[svp67]

Quote: paul3390

What kind of mechanical engineering can we talk about in a country that did not even produce bearings on its own?

Well why, then ... ships, cars, steam locomotives were produced in the Republic of Ingushetia

[paul3390]

Well - now in the Russian Federation they also collect computers with tablets. And what's the use? If all the filling is imported? So even then - they would stop selling the same bearings, and that's it, even the frail Romanov mechanical engineering would end there.

[Dart2027]

Quote: paul3390

would stop selling the same bearings, and

would start to make their own. We have now refused to sell a lot of things, so it only benefited.

[Alf]

Quote: Dart2027

would start making their own

So it was not the enemy who killed their own, they killed their "young reformers."

[Vadim237]

No - they just stopped buying bearings in the required volumes for the payback of production and the open market finished off due to the appearance of competition, most of our Soviet products could not stand the competition, since they were originally created for a planned distribution economy, but not for a competitive market where it is not the state that decides, but the customers decide what how much and from whom to buy. And the young reformers have nothing to do with this process was inevitable for the USSR, which sooner or later would come to a market economy with all that it implies.

[210ox]

Whose units were on these ships? Boiler equipment is mainly from England, control systems from there, and even from the USA, Germany. Car motors from France. Swedish bearings. And tvk further

[svp67]

Quote: 210ox

Boiler equipment mainly from England,

And German, but mainly on the lead ships, in the future they already tried to put the released at home ...

[Unknown]

Quote: svp67

Well why, then ... ships, cars, steam locomotives were produced in the Republic of Ingushetia

You can ask, what was the situation in the Russian Empire, with such an important branch of the economy as the chemical one? For example, on the eve of World War II, Germany was the first country in Europe to develop its chemical industry. This branch of German industry was one of the most important foundations of Germany's economic power and the main factor of German industry and trade hegemony in world markets. Already in 1897, the total value the products of chemical factories were determined, according to official data, at 1 billion marks ....... that the main product, on the processing of which a number of the most important branches of the chemical industry are based, is the so-called gas tar or coal tar. smelling liquid, as from the center, originates from the manufacture of countless paints (aniline, alizarin, azo paints, sulfur paints, etc.), striking the eye with beauty, brightness and a variety of shades; from him comes the production of a large number of medicines, of which it is enough to name so popular: antifibrin, salicylic acid, aspirin, salol, fe nacetin, antipyrine, salvarsan and many others. etc. The most important explosives used in military technology and in mining (picric acid, TNT, nitronaphthalenes, etc.) are also manufactured from coal tar. The most important explosives, the very ones that are the most effective materials for filling shells (picric acid, TNT "... that by the "greatest special decree" of September 28, 1717, the Prussian king Frederick William I introduced compulsory school attendance for children from five to 12 years old, the Holstein-Gottorp even three hundred years later did not think so. the horrors of the revolution, drop a few tears and over the horrors that gave birth to it. "

J. Michelet

[Dmitry from Voronezh]

Bearings in RI were produced by many large machine-building plants. A specialized plant for the production of bearings was opened in Moscow in 1916 and remained the only specialized plant in the USSR until 1932.

[Unknown]

Quote: Dmitry from Voronezh

Bearings in RI were produced by many large machine-building plants. A specialized plant for the production of bearings was opened in Moscow in 1916 and remained the only specialized plant in the USSR until 1932.

Do not speak up. What are the big factories? For all mechanical engineering in 1913 there were only eight thread grinding machines, only 625 automatic and semi-automatic machines. What engines are their own, if they could not make such a major part as the carburetor? The development of technology at the beginning of the twentieth century also demanded non-ferrous metallurgy, it was in R.I. ? The first Russian engine proper (166-horsepower RBZ-6, copied from the German "Argus"), began to be made at the Russian-Baltic Carriage Works only at the end of 1916, but they did not achieve production volumes of more than ten units per month. And at the same time, a significant part of the components had to be transported from abroad: we did not have them at home. Who was the owner of SCF? The plant was owned by two Swedes: the capitalist Emmanuel Nobel, the nephew of the same Nobel, and Anders-Frideric Cherberg, an engineer. He was not a major bearing manufacturer.

Can't even be compared to FAG (Fischer Aktien-Gesellschaft).

[Dmitry from Voronezh]

It is you who are talking. I gave data that the production of bearings in the country was. You have jumped into the production of motors. Normal discussions are not conducted like that.

[Unknown]

Such data is inaccurate. One cannot seriously consider a plant that produces pulleys, shafts,[/ b] sleeve bearings [b], transmissions and accessories for mills, a specialized bearing manufacturer. And to release ball bearings out of the question. For their production, a fully automated milling machine is needed, and where in R.I. could have done it, and when. It was in 1883, the Bavarian engineer Frederik Fischer developed a grinding machine for grinding hardened steel balls to a completely round shape and founded FAG (FAG Kugelfischer Georg Schafer AG) in Schweinfurt, Germany. Construction of the first bearing ball factory began in 1896. 20 years difference! Yes, over such a period of time, the Bolsheviks conducted an educational program, electrification, built a lot of schools, technical schools and universities, created a powerful economy, with such industries that were not in R.I. from the word completely, for example, chemical and non-ferrous metallurgy. And what did the rotten through and through Holstein-Gottorp camarilla with the parasitic nobility in the empire do for these 20 years? Yes, nothing, and did not want anything, and did not strive for anything.

[Vadim237]

"Yes, over such a period of time, the Bolsheviks conducted an educational program, electrification, built a lot of schools, technical schools and universities, created a powerful economy, with such industries that were not in RI from the word at all, for example, chemical and non-ferrous metallurgy." - 20 years is a fairly long period of time and of course RI could not dream of it, since 20 years ago some industries had just begun to appear, the production of bearings is the same - and there is nothing to compare the economy of RI, which was market-based with the same market business planning and the planned distribution was the USSR has different economies.

[Dmitry from Voronezh]

Education developed successfully even without the Bolsheviks, electrification also proceeded at a faster pace: from 1913 to 1916. electricity generation increased by 1,88 times or by 29% per year. And so, yes: the Bolsheviks created a powerful heavy industry, but at what cost ...? And after all, creating a powerful industry does not mean creating an efficient economy. It is important not only to achieve some of the figures laid down in the five-year plan (by the way, none of the five-year plans has been fulfilled even by 75%), it is important to set a development vector that will make the economy competitive. And with this, the Bolsheviks had problems: by the 1970s, the growth rates of the economy dropped noticeably, in the 1980s. exports already consisted of more than 50% of raw materials. Agriculture became unprofitable, the country imported a huge amount of grain ... And this is not a consequence of some individual mistakes, it is a consequence of the general vector of economic development adopted back in the 1930s. Simply put, the country was unable to introduce high value-added products to the world market that would bring good profits. But this was not possible in a highly regulated, non-competitive, non-market-oriented economy.

[Unknown]

Quote: Dmitry from Voronezh

Education developed successfully even without the Bolsheviks, electrification also proceeded at a faster pace: from 1913 to 1916. electricity generation increased by 1,88 times or by 29% per year.

There is no answer to the simple question of what the Holstein-Gottorp dynasty was doing with its snickering nobility and there will not be an answer. There was no one who had a successful education. How many universities were there in RI and with what faculties? Only 10. What contemporaries wrote about this In 1913 V.I. Vernadsky wrote about this: “The Ministry diligently does not allow the creation of new universities. The State Duma refused to submit a bill on the opening of a physics and mathematics faculty at Tomsk University, because it does not see a sufficient number of Siberians among the students of physics and mathematics faculties of other It refuses the Saratov zemstvo to open a physics and mathematics faculty at the University of Saratov, because the country does not have enough trained teaching staff. like Vilna, Minsk - to achieve the creation of new universities or, at least, faculties ".. So let's not talk about sad things. There were 24 universities in Germany. Thus, in the field of medicine, German scientists in 1870-1919. 269 ​​major discoveries were made, other scientists of the world put together - 357. In the field of physical sciences in 1871-1900. the Germans made more than 2 thousand scientific discoveries, the French and the British - 1,7 thousand. Can this be said about RI's scientific achievements? As for secondary and vocational schools, it is generally better to keep quiet. It is not enough to come up with a GOERLO plan. it must be put into action. Here's what writer and publicist HG Wells said. who knew Russia firsthand. and personally, after a conversation with V.I. Lenin ... ". Lenin ... as a true Marxist, rejects all" utopians ", in the end he himself fell into a utopia, a utopia of electrification. He does everything in his power to create large power plants in Russia that will give energy to entire provinces for lighting, transport and industry ... Can you imagine a more daring project in this huge flat, forested country, inhabited by illiterate peasants, devoid of water energy sources, lacking technically competent people, in which trade and industry are almost extinct?
Such electrification projects are now being carried out in Holland, they are being discussed in England, and one can easily imagine that in these densely populated countries with highly developed industries, electrification will be successful ... But the implementation of such projects in Russia can only be imagined with the help of super-fantasy. In whatever magic mirror I look, I cannot see this Russia of the future, but a short man in the Kremlin has such a gift ... "To which Vladimir Ilyich replied," Come to us in 20 years, then we'll see. " it is necessary to refer to some Americans who do not know Russia at all, but who judge about it from Solzhenitsyn's book "The Red Wheel", as well as an article by NS Simonov, of dubious content.

Quote: Dmitry from Voronezh

And so, yes: the Bolsheviks created a powerful heavy industry, but at what cost ...? And after all, creating a powerful industry does not mean creating an efficient economy.

At that time, it was necessary to create heavy industry, the war was on the nose. The Versailles peace, this is a truce for 20 years, this was understood by all thinking people in the world. The normal price, less need to read the liberals of the present, and understand that the rise and enthusiasm of the first five-year plans I was, they did not work out of hand, people saw the results of their labor, and it inspired.

[Dmitry from Voronezh]

according to open sources, in the period from 1896 to 1910, 57 thousand primary schools were opened. The number of primary education institutions has doubled compared to the previous time period. 1,5 thousand lower vocational schools, 600 city schools, 1323 secondary educational institutions have been created, 20 men's higher educational institutions and 28 women's universities are opening. Under Nicholas II, a separate system of higher education for women was created. According to this indicator, the Russian Empire is far ahead of Europe, where universities set quotas for the education of women.

So, as you can see, education developed quite normally without the Bolsheviks. I wrote about Russian scientists in a previous article. I will not repeat myself. We had our own luminaries of science. Of course, not as many as in Europe, but there were world-famous scientists. This is also confirmed by the quality of higher education. As education improved, the number of outstanding scientists would grow.

I wrote about electrification above. It grew rapidly under the Empire. The country just needed electricity, so they "increased" it.

Wells is generally interesting: that is, I cannot refer to the Americans, but you can refer to the Englishman! Moreover, an Englishman, who, unlike Paul Gregory, did not conduct serious research, simply put it to a layman.

Do you really believe in the enthusiasm of the first five-year plans? If so, you, an idealist, and that's great! No, of course there was a small percentage of idealists. It is always there, in any society, and this is wonderful ... But in reality, most people are worried about utilitarian everyday problems: how to provide themselves with housing, food, household goods, leisure. And that's okay! Idealists can sacrifice this, but how many there are, I will clarify how many there were in the USSR in the 1920s-1930s. ? 1%, 2%, 3%? In reality, not much, there was nowhere for them to take in large numbers, given that the basis of the party was not idealists, but people who used the idea of ​​communism in order to achieve the advantages of power.

About the price of revolutions and industrialization, just look at the scale: about 10 million people - losses in the civil war (maybe more, if you go deeper into the question) + 10 million - victims of collectivization, repression, famine in the 1930s. Total: about 20 million people. Think of them not as numbers in statistics, but as living people, as relatives or friends, for example ... Is it possible to pay for the creation of a heavy industry at such a price? Moreover, there was an opportunity to raise industry without sacrifice, through the evolutionary development of the economy.

[Unknown]

Quote: Dmitry from Voronezh

according to open sources

And they say that the chickens are milked ..., but the truth is they themselves have not tried, and have not seen, but after all, there is bird's milk candy, so there is. Holstein-Gottorp rocked for 200 years, well, they would have continued for another 100 years.

Quote: Dmitry from Voronezh

Of course, not as many as in Europe, but there were world-famous scientists. This is also confirmed by the quality of higher education. As education improved and the number of outstanding scientists would grow

Of course, there were only a few, and there were so-so successes. But when the educational program was carried out, the Lomonosovs and Kulibins, then famous scientists, began to grow out of the people, the score went to dozens.

Quote: Dmitry from Voronezh

Wells is generally interesting: that is, I cannot refer to the Americans, but you can refer to the Englishman! Moreover, an Englishman, who, unlike Paul Gregory, did not conduct serious research, a layman, simply put

The reference was to contemporaries of that time who came to Russia in 1905-14-20-34, as well as to the opinion of scientists of that time. In response, they refer to the so-called "serious economist" of American origin, better known not for his economic works, which monarchists like to quote from the "royal cross", but for the production of the film "Women of the Gulag". I remembered Gaidar's "famous US economists are helping us", soon we will all be in chocolate. We ended up completely in shit, and then we still continue to live according to the patterns of famous economists. I wonder how the United States would perceive a Russian economist who put, for example, the film "Indian Women on the Reservations of the United States and Canada"? Only in R.F. liberals love to quote various crooks from history.

Quote: Dmitry from Voronezh

But in reality, most people are worried about utilitarian everyday problems: how to provide themselves with housing, food, household goods, leisure

It was precisely tsarism that provided 85 percent of the peasant population with all of the above. there was plenty of leisure time.

Quote: Dmitry from Voronezh

About the price of revolutions and industrialization, just look at the scale: about 10 million people - losses in the civil war (maybe more, if you go deeper into the question) + 10 million - victims of collectivization, repression, famine in the 1930s. Total: about 20 million people. Think of them not as numbers in statistics, but as living people, like relatives or friends, for example.

What's so little? We have to throw in a couple of million more. there was Solzhenitsin talking. about 70 million. According to such estimates. and with losses of the Second World War. in general, the people should not remain. It's just amazing. how we still live.

[Foul skeptic]

It is you who are talking. I gave data that the production of bearings in the country was. You have jumped into the production of motors. Normal discussions are not conducted like that.

Ball bearings were not manufactured, but assembled. Components were brought from Sweden and bearings were assembled from them in Russia.

[Region-25.rus]

I gave data that the production of bearings in the country was. You have jumped into the production of motors. Normal discussions are not conducted like that.

what? Are there motors without bearings? Did you understand what kind of game you froze?

[Vadim237]

And he wrote that there were no bearings in the motors - in the majority of motors, the plain bearings are.

[Fat]

Quote: paul3390

What kind of mechanical engineering can we talk about in a country that did not even produce bearings on its own?

Ball bearings in a more or less modern form generally exist in the world since 1907 ... It all started with the famous Swedish steel and the company founded in 1907 in Gothenburg for the production of two-row patented ball bearings AB Svenska Kullagerfabriken (SKF).
GPZ-2 began operations in 1916 as a "SKF ball bearing" by E. L. Nobel and A.F. Cherberg. Emanuel Nobel is a citizen of the Republic of Ingushetia.

[Foul skeptic]

"SKF ball bearing" by E.L. Nobel and A.F. Cherberg. Emanuel Nobel is a citizen of the Republic of Ingushetia.

SKF ball bearing to Nobel has only the fact that Nobel bought up the bending factories in the empire on the cheap and resold to their compatriots.

[tihonmarine]

Quote: svp67

I love these calculations ... It's called a SCAM.

It's clear where the wind is blowing, and especially after Grishka Otrepiev's wedding.

[Crowe]

Previous article “Russian Empire. An Honest Look "caused a mixed reaction ... the author decided to publish a new article

"One lie will give birth to another."
Publius Terence Afr

[Svarog]

Quote: svp67

I love these calculations ... It's called a SCAM.

This is a deliberate manipulation .. that's why suddenly the author, so diligently attended to the issue of "success of the Republic of Ingushetia" If in connection with the clown representation of the marriage of the tsareva .. then a karina looms .. about which I wrote earlier .. The king-supreme ruler is noble-slaves. They say Putin wanted to become the president of the state united with the Republic of Bashkortostan .. yes dad resisted .. And what now .. the Supreme ruler?

[Ross xnumx]

Quote: svp67

I love these calculations ... It's called a SCAM. Is it possible in specific figures? And then, if from the period from 1894 to 1913 instead of ONE bricks we produced FOUR, then this is FOUR times growth

Especially, at your request, today and always:

[Dmitry from Voronezh]

Firstly, Poland and Finland left for a reason. These were our territories, 150 years ago. And so for that it is necessary to thank the revolutionaries, first of all the organizers of the February coup. After all, they were the instigators.
The increase in the number of hospitals, schools, students by 1940 is not such a great achievement - this is the norm for a country in which the population is growing and which wants to develop. Without the revolution, there would be about the same indicators.

[210ox]

There was a very interesting management in these territories. The government gave serious subsidies to governorships with strong local self-government, where separatism was very strong. In today's Russia, there is also an analogue. And God forbid, contemporaries will release the reins.

[Vadim237]

"Today's Russia also has an analogue." Which?

[210ox]

Chechen Republic. Ali not in the know?

[Vadim237]

More precisely, it was an analogue - but this analogue takes its roots from the throw of a new power - in the 90s "Take sovereignty as much as you want" prosecuted. And who is Ali, I do not know.

[Region-25.rus]

February coup.

firstly - in February there was revolution The socio-political system has changed! There was a monarchy, now a bourgeois republic!

And so for that we need to thank the revolutionaries

in the sense of the tsarist encirclement (General Kornilov personally arrested the tsar at headquarters as BE) Or did Lenin overthrow the tsar?

Without the revolution, there would be about the same indicators.

Oh really?
It is not "Dmitry from Voronezh" that suits you more, but "Kolya s Urengoy". You carry the same bullshit.

[Alexey RA]

Quote: Dmitry from Voronezh

Firstly, Poland and Finland left for a reason. These were our territories, 150 years ago. And so for that it is necessary to thank the revolutionaries, first of all the organizers of the February coup. After all, they were the instigators.

For Finland, we must thank the father-tsar. Specifically - bald dandy, enemy of labor ©. Which of the provinces transferred by Sweden "in bulk" created in the Empire actually a state within a state - VKF. Moreover, he slaughtered the new subject of the empire of the imperial lands in the form of the Vyborg province.
Is it possible to consider a principality with its own authorities, different from the Empire laws, courts, bank, currency, police and customs authorities, language, education system as our territory? In general, the territory in which the laws of the Empire either do not apply at all, or are limited.

[Fanur Galiev]

Everything is trite here. Look at the sources used by the author. To the authors of these sources. Read the titles of their books and publications. Everything becomes clear at once.

[Olgovich]

Quote: svp67

This is generally OUTSIDE CRITICISM ... Why not the 1940 cutoff?

why not 1991 cutoff then?

Quote: svp67

The territory DECREASED after 1914, the developed POLAND and FINLAND left, and nevertheless ..

no one in their right mind compares schools in the Republic of Ingushetia and the USSR, they take data from the Republic of Ingushetia on the territory of the USSR

Quote: svp67

The number of schools in 1913 (thousand) - 77,3 (urban - 8,3, rural - 69)

114 thousand schools in 1914-15 within the borders of 1939

Quote: svp67

in 1940 - 116,9 (urban - 14,4, rural - 102,5)

do not forget to take away several thousand schools of the annexed Ukraine, Belarus, etc.

Quote: svp67

Growth UNDoubtful

the catch is that under Russia the magnitude of growth by 1940 would have been HIGHER-see the trend of growth in the number of schools and hospitals before the VOR.

[210ox]

Olgovich, you there in Moldova, explain your views, the current one may and will want to return to the Republic of Ingushetia.

[Liam]

Quote: 210ox

Olgovich, you there in Moldova, explain your views, the current one may and will want to return to the Republic of Ingushetia.

Calm down, there are quite a few marginal people in Moldova

[210ox]

Yes, God is with her, with Moldova. It is interesting that these are sometimes found here, shaking RI with suede banners. Of course, then there was a different life with its own sorrows and joys, victories and defeats, etc. But it is impossible to idealize all this, relying on the works of Russia's enemies (both foreign and local).

[Olgovich]

Quote: Liam

Calm down, there are quite a few marginal people in Moldova

many marginalized people for 30 years and numerous lamas already abundantly miasma

[Olgovich]

Quote: 210ox

Olgovich, you there in Moldova, explain your views, the current one may and will want to return to the Republic of Ingushetia.

you there in the "nogodny" country cut from Russia all sorts of sovereign states that never existed, and now you do not want to answer for the crimes.

[210ox]

Have you already tried? Or is it just the desire of a small character, apparently once deprived of buns from those who were in the leadership at all levels. And most likely nominal communists, with a party card in their pockets. That is, it’s a career. And my mother died with her party membership card and did not give it up like some. She was a teacher at the 6th school in Smolensk. Whom are you going to judge? Millions of hard workers?

[alstr]

By education, you can add the following:
First, only primary schools are compared. At the same time, they overlook the fact that the schools themselves have become simply larger, even according to their cited data: 69 people in 1914 and 93 in 1926. And now attention. If we take the number of students in 26 g and divide by the average number of students in 14, we get that to provide such a number of students it was necessary to have more than 137 thousand schools.
And now for the students themselves. In the statistics, only school students are indicated, and the fact that from 18 to 27 years old, about 10 million elementary literacy was taught - read this is also a primary school. It is somehow omitted. And this is not a lot, not a little, about 1 million students a year.
At the same time, they completely omit the fact that the secondary school has grown sharply. And this is about 3 million more people.

And this is only in 1926.
And from the age of 33, the seven-year plan became compulsory (and in fact in cities it became compulsory in the late 20s).
And if we talk about such an indicator as the number of students per 1 teacher, then in the same 26 year it was already less than 14 (32.76 versus 34.04). And in the 40th year it was already less than 30 (29,02).

And behind these figures is the work of higher education.

And now about the given growth figures.
Already at the beginning of the 20th century, the figures for the smelting of pig iron ceased to give an objective picture of the development of the country, because they have ceased to be the final product. Now this is only an indirect sign of development, because if motors, machine tools and other technically complex products are not made of them, then all these millions of tons are useless.

[Nik Petrov]

Russia 1912 schools 126 thousand out of the bottom 32 thousand central schools. Expenditures on education 22% of the budget of the Russian Empire (For the Military Department 20%, for the Emperor and the Court 0.3%)

[paul3390]

The industrialization of the Russian Empire would have continued in 1920-1930

Bullshit. All industrialization of the Republic of Ingushetia was carried out for foreign loans and investments. After WWI, the West had its own problems to invest in Russia. And since the next world war was inevitable, the Romanov empire would definitely not have survived it. She was weak in the knees to resist even one Germany, not like a united Europe.

[Kronos]

Yes, in this case, it would be just an ear with feet of clay that Hitler dreamed of.

[Dmitry from Voronezh]

American economist Paul Gregory estimates the role of foreign investment in the economy of the Russian Empire at 11 - the largest 15% of all investments. This is not a little, but to say that industrialization in the country was funded by foreign money is inappropriate. The country could have survived a drop in investments even by 3 times. Look at the level of the country's national income by 1913 - Russia at this time is one of the richest countries in the world. So there was money for industrialization.

[210ox]

Money in the form of foreign loans. An example is the current Ukraine. It can also be called a dynamically developing state. In your. For the percentage of GDP growth in some period is even higher than ours

[Dmitry from Voronezh]

Our average% GDP growth over the past ten years will be somewhere around 1% per year or less. The exact numbers are easy to find on the internet. So, at such rates, even Ukraine is able to compete with us in terms of growth rates. I wrote about foreign capital above. I will not repeat myself.

[210ox]

Competition by numbers ??? !! You manipulate them in the same way as in Kiev. Check out their sources.

[Dmitry from Voronezh]

There is nothing to manipulate here. The growth rates are on the net. The last time the normal GDP growth was in 2012 was 4%. 2013 to 2020 the average economic growth in our country was 0,54%. And then, if you believe the official statistics. That is, there is no development for 8 years. I don’t know about Ukraine, I didn’t think, maybe they’re even worse. But we have absolutely nothing to be proud of here.

[210ox]

Well, we think so. And they are proud by the way. Growth in numbers. He worked on a business trip in Vyazma at a dairy plant (this was even before the known events). There is a team from Ukraine, locksmiths, repairmen, Kharkov, etc. After work we sat down with them at the table. So you can't argue, what a good state they have, the hryvnia and all that. Guys, what are you doing here in Russia to earn money? And I know about life in that Russia from the words of my great-grandfather, and not from the numbers.

[Nastia makarova]

1% growth in Russia equals 40% growth in Ukraine

[Nafanya from the sofa]

The Church of St. Nicholas and the Holy Martyr Alexandra is the first Russian church not only in Nice, but in all of Western Europe (1860).
The number of the Russian colony on the Cote d'Azur is growing regularly.
In 1857, about 150 families live in Nice. These are wealthy tourists who are attracted by the presence of the royal family ...

The Russians went to Nice and Monte Carlo for RUSSIAN RUBLES. No green candy wrappers or pounds were required. And at that time the ruble was one of the strongest world currencies.
That’s the whole economy.

[knn54]

NAFANIA- "It's nothing that in Europe they give one fifty kopecks for our ruble - it will be worse if they start giving in the face for our ruble." (M, ESaltykov-Shchedrin)

[Nafanya from the sofa]

Michal Evgrafych in those days was like our Mikhail Zadornov. So quotes from him must be taken accordingly.

[Ross xnumx]

Quote: Nafanya from the couch

Michal Evgrafych in those days was like our Mikhail Zadornov. So quotes from him must be taken accordingly.

We perceive them accordingly. Mikhail Evgrafovich will be remembered even after a hundred years, and Mikhail Nikolaevich will be remembered for the sharpness of humor ... And yours, by the way, to be honest, and our verses and fabrications will remain only for some time in the VO archive.

[paul3390]

Uh-huh .. Thanks to the type of Witte reforms that pegged the ruble to gold. Of course - the ruble began to be appreciated, but thanks to this gold flowed like a river from Russia. For the entire economy was behind foreigners, who took profits into gold and beyond the cordon .. Yes, and ours did not lag behind. Well - and of course the gallant landowners had every opportunity to hang out in Nice. An epic achievement, which is already there.

In general, it looks great today. Tell me - are you covered with pride in the yachts of our oligarchs, for their brawls in Courchevels, palaces in Londiniums, etc.? After all, Russian citizens are walking around, they can afford the real greatness of the country!

[Nafanya from the sofa]

For the entire economy was behind foreigners, who took profits into gold and beyond the cordon .. Yes, and ours did not lag behind. Well - and of course the gallant landowners had every opportunity to hang out in Nice. An epic achievement, which is already there.

You passed the exam in Marxist-Leninist political economy with EXCELLENT.

... However, already in 1926, Soviet industry again reached the level of 1913, ..

[tatra]

Only the enemies of the USSR "forget" that between these years there were TWO large-scale wars that caused enormous material and human damage to the country and the people.
And you yourself, after the seizure of the republics of the USSR, without any large-scale wars, ruined all industries in them.

[Vadim237]

What industries were ditched there - name the really competitive ditched industries.

[210ox]

By 1926? These are generally amazing rates. Considering what was happening in the country.

[Vadim237]

By 1926, everything that had been destroyed and plundered for civilian use was restored.

[Fat]

Quote: paul3390

For the entire economy was behind foreigners, who took profits into gold and beyond the cordon .. Yes, and ours did not lag behind.

Paul. Not much was shown. It was profitable to develop production in Ingushetia, as not so long ago in China. The mass of cheap labor has always "ruled" among the capitalists - production workers, and not the inflators of "financial bubbles" who, like money blowing out of thin air in Courchevels and Nice, inflate snot with a bubble

[svp67]

Quote: Nafanya from the couch

The Russians went to Nice and Monte Carlo for RUSSIAN RUBLES.

And what is the percentage of the population, of the total, you can specify?

[Reptiloid]

Quote: svp67

.... And what is the percentage of the population, of the total, you can specify?

yeah ... there was no taste for a beautiful life among the Russians of that time ... few people traveled, probably. (sarcasm)
And it is completely incomprehensible how Stolypin suddenly introduced his expedited courts, Stolypin's ties? If everything was so beautiful?
And the author did not write WHY that Stolypin had unprecedentedly increased the number of death sentences. Didn't write about it.

[Dart2027]

Quote: Reptiloid

And the author did not write WHY that Stolypin had unprecedentedly increased the number of death sentences. Didn't write about it.

For eight months of its existence (the provision on courts-martial in April 1907 automatically lost its force, as it was not accepted by the Duma), according to researchers sympathetic to the energetic prime minister who was saving the empire from revolution, the courts-martial issued 1102 death sentences, however only 683 people were actually executed. However, these figures do not give a complete picture of the number of sentences carried out, due to the fact that in the provinces under martial law or a state of increased security, military district courts continued to operate, which assumed summary proceedings. In total, in Russia, according to the decisions of the military field and military district courts in 1906-1911. according to some reports, about 2800 people were executed. Critics of "Stolypin's tough measures" cite their statistics: by military-field and military-district courts for 1906-1909. 6193 people were sentenced to death, 2694 of them were hanged. There is also such a calculation: from 1906 to 1911. up to 6000 people were executed under summary judgment, and 66 people were sentenced to hard labor. Basically, executions were carried out by hanging, which is where the expression "Stolypin's tie" came from.
https://pravo.ru/process/view/76317/

In the whole Republic of Ingushetia, for several years, during the revolution, only ... 6000 people were executed. And that's not a fact, the real numbers may be 2694 people. Well, well, straight rivers of blood ...

[Reptiloid]

What a merciful (sarcasm), but they were shot in speeches, disappeared in prisons, on trains, died, or, having arrived at the place, there turned out to be a swamp or something else unsuitable ...

[Dart2027]

Quote: Reptiloid

but were shot in speeches, disappeared in prisons, on trains, died, or

Well, how much? Specific numbers?

[Reptiloid]

Search engine to help you!
To destroy people is a crime.

[Dart2027]

Quote: Reptiloid

Search engine to help you!

That is, not at all.

[Nik Petrov]

sentenced to death in 1860. But half the death penalty was replaced by hard labor. They killed 24 thousand people, of which less than 200 civil servants

[Dart2027]

I remember on the same site they poked me under my nose with a description of how the Cossacks arrived in some village and whipped everyone. I got interested and, having found the FULL description, found out that this is so, but my opponent forgot to clarify the fact that the peasants of this village killed the official. Whipping for murder - well, business ...

[Kronos]

How many percent of the population could afford to hang out in Nice? If the villagers were 85% of the entire empire, and the rich were not more than 10%.

[Mooh]

There is a lie, there is a blatant lie, but there are statistics)
Communists in the same way, in terms of numbers, will confidently prove that the empire stagnated and degraded, but under Stalin, that hoo. So I don’t believe it. A country that could not provide itself with industrial products cannot be considered developed, no matter what the pace of development of this country is shown by statistics. In today's Great Britain, too, according to statistics, everything is much better than in today's Russia, but in reality that industrial production is in the ass and the consequences are inevitable. Or there are the Baltic economic tigers, they, too, are supposedly better than in Sweden, but in reality?

[Andrey Chizhevsky]

What kind of products the country could not provide itself - specify.

[Mooh]

Large steel forgings such as turbine rotors and ship kit components.
Internal combustion engines and their components. Carburetors, crankshafts, spark plugs, magneto.
Complex components of electrical engineering. Starters-generators etc.
Many parts of steam engines and boiler equipment (I'm not sure here, I read something about components for steam locomotives, but I don't remember the specifics).
Ship radio stations !!! Invented by Popov, and bought from Marconi and the Germans.
Optics, chemical products.
During WW l, rifles, cartridges, machine guns, guns, explosives and gunpowder were massively purchased. The domestic industry produced, but could not increase the number to the needs of the wartime army.
There was no production of bearings, machine tool building as a class, etc., etc.

[Andrey Chizhevsky]

Nevertheless - did you build your own steam locomotives? It was like this: ships and vessels? Too. That much was bought behind the cordon - and in Soviet times and now it is purchased abroad. I will say more - not only Russia "sinned" with the purchase of equipment and raw materials. Almost all developed countries at that time. And not developed as they say God himself commanded. The purchase of weapons and weapons during the war - so why be surprised? Gunpowder and explosives during the war are still irrecoverable losses))). Also cartridges and shells. And grenades))) But shell hunger by 1917 was overcome. By the way, the Soviet masters from history reluctantly recognized this.

[Olgovich]

Quote: MooH

Large steel forgings such as turbine rotors and ship kit components.

Baltiyskiy Zavod, Putilovskiy Zavod

Quote: MooH

Internal combustion engines and their components.

Find out what a Russian diesel is and why it is so named and that the first submarine with diesel engines is Russian with its diesels

Quote: MooH

Many parts of steam engines

Russia is the world leader in steam locomotive construction with advanced technologies, as well as in steamboat construction and a pioneer in the construction of motor ships (most of all in the world, motor ships in Russia)

Quote: MooH

During WW l, rifles, cartridges, machine guns, guns, explosives and gunpowder were massively purchased.

England, France bought the same en masse.

Quote: MooH

There was no production of bearings

1916 - the plant was built

Quote: MooH

machine tool building as a class

production growth during WWI

[Ross xnumx]

Quote: MooH

There is a lie, there is a blatant lie, but there are statistics)

So tell us why in a successful and sufficient RI in the villages from the achievements of electricity there was a torch and a kerosene lamp ...

[Olgovich]

Quote: ROSS 42

So tell us why in a successful and sufficient RI in the villages from the achievements of electricity there was a torch and a kerosene lamp ...

please- In 1970, the continuous electrification of the Smolensk region was completed. By this time (mainly for 1966-1970) about 30 thousand km of power lines were built and electrified about 6 thousand settlements.
And so, all over central Russia -they sat at the splinter until the 50th anniversary of Okhtyabr

[Ross xnumx]

Quote: Olgovich

And so, all over central Russia, they sat with a torch until the 50th anniversary of Okhtyabr

Well, if you are such a connoisseur of electrification plans, the work of the UES and methods of installing overhead lines up to and above 1000 V, I cannot resist my own enlightenment on your part in the question:
Why in backward Soviet Russia until 1967 there was no electricity in the villages of Central Russia, and after 1991 in similar settlements throughout the Russian Federation, the electricity and water supply built during the Soviet era began to disappear?
And I (as a former installer of 0,4 kV overhead lines and 10 kV overhead lines) can even answer the question of why in the USSR, where millions of rubles were spent on repairing overhead lines, they did not bother (taking advantage of the kind attitude of the French in the late 70s) acquire technologies for the installation of self-supporting insulated wire and bring (at least through diplomats) to the country a sample of a power cable with XLPE insulation. Moreover, in the 60s-80s, hundreds of meters of "punched" cable were disposed of through solid waste landfills, burying together with aluminum, copper and lead underground (and there were cases when hundreds of meters of cable were simply left in the route, especially in winter) ... You (if you didn’t work in such conditions at that time) cannot even imagine how in cold weather on a cable route you search for "KZ" and then engage in the installation of couplings. I'm not even talking about emergency work on overhead lines ...

[Olgovich]

Quote: ROSS 42

Why in backward Soviet Russia until 1967 there was no electricity in the villages of Central Russia, and after 1991 in similar settlements throughout the Russian Federation, the electricity and water supply built during the Soviet era began to disappear?

I will tell you more than that, even before 91 g,to 1989 d the Bolsheviks destroyed HALF of the populated areas of Russia (180 thousand), vast territories of Russia have become depopulated and run wild - what kind of water pipes are there?

In 10% of schools in Russia in 1990 there was no LIGHT !!!

Quote: ROSS 42

And I can answer you (as a former installer of 0,4 kV overhead lines and 10 kV overhead lines)

as a builder, I can answer, they built from cheap gn, so the water pipes began to flow in a year, while normal countries already used PE with might and main (which is much cheaper)

Quote: ROSS 42

You (if you didn’t work in such conditions at that time) cannot even imagine how in cold weather on a cable route you search for "KZ" and then engage in the installation of couplings. I'm not even talking about emergency work on overhead lines ...

and in winter you will work on finding and fixing a water pipe leak in frost with stone ground and a lot will become clear.

But build from PE or ductile iron with QI and millions of dollars would be saved

[Ross xnumx]

Quote: Olgovich

, by 1989 the Bolsheviks destroyed HALF of the settlements of Russia (180 thousand),

After that, it became lazy to read on. Should I not know who and when destroyed the settlements? True, the Bolsheviks have nothing to do with this:

In October 1952, at the XNUMXth Party Congress, its name was changed again: the CPSU (b) was renamed into the Communist Party of the Soviet Union - the CPSU.

[Olgovich]

Quote: ROSS 42

After that, it became lazy to read on. Should I not know who and when destroyed the settlements?

destroyed yourself?

And they destroyed in the 1930s during the All-Union Communist Party of Belarus: read WHAT the punishers did with the inhabitants of small villages and farms and their property -on Istmata

Quote: ROSS 42

True, the Bolsheviks have nothing to do with this:
In October 1952, at the XNUMXth Party Congress, its name was changed again: the CPSU (b) was renamed into the Communist Party of the Soviet Union - CPSU

and who did it?

2. What's the difference, by the way?

None of the party affiliates and, moreover, of the lower classes, did not indicate any difference, on the contrary.

[210ox]

An example was given - the Smolensk region has not recovered its population since the Great Patriotic War. There were two years of fighting there. Everything is swept away, I lived there for half a century and I know what I'm talking about. In Smolensk, gasification was carried out by the beginning of the 80s, in the 60s we had kerosene gas, then balloon gas appeared. It's amazing that I have been restoring infrastructure for thirty years. Under the kings, they would have given up the fuck. How in the 18th century Nicholas the First came to Smolensk with his retinue and noted the "restoration" of the fortress wall in a couple of decades, noting to his son, "It looks like Sasha in our country does not steal two people - you and me"

[Olgovich]

Quote: 210ox

An example was given - the Smolensk region has not recovered its population since the Great Patriotic War. There were two years of fighting there. Everything is swept away, I lived there for half a century and I know what I'm talking about.

Do not be nonsense: the same SHAME with electricity was in the Vladimir region, Ryazan and other pr-where there were no Nazis at all.

But the destruction in the same Ukraine and Moldova did not prevent the completion of electrification there much earlier.

And I lived there, the Temkinsky district, and I know perfectly well that the Smolensk region and the entire center of Russia were much POORER than Ukraine, because it was RIPED in favor of those Ukrainians

Quote: 210ox

... Under the kings, they would have given up the fuck.

under the kings of the Smolensk region, it was beautifully REVIVED, and more than once, one OV in 1812, which is also growing further, but robbed under the Soviets after the Soviets dies out. Let's not forget that the region suffered wild losses even in the Civil War, during collectivization, even before the Second World War.

[210ox]

SHAME in your head. And devastation.

[Olgovich]

scorching

Quote: 210ox

SHAME in your head. And devastation.

A SHAME in the USSR with the DESTROYED rural economy of Russia, the DESTRUCTION of the Russian village and the DESTRUCTION of central Russia, arranged by your ignorant in the place of a flourishing growing country.

By the way, can you refute the FACTS given? No? Words alone?
Shame ...

[210ox]

Once again I say to the shameful "organ" Prove that my relatives - Nina Yakovlevna Pristavkina - teacher of the Smolensk school, Nikolai Yakovlevich Pristavkin - Hero of Socialist Labor (available in the wiki) worked on the destruction of the "flourishing country" I support the bill in the Duma attracting such stubborn distorters from the court ... Especially those over the hill.

[Olgovich]

Quote: 210ox

Once again I say to the shameful "organ" Prove that my relatives - Nina Yakovlevna Pristavkina - teacher of the Smolensk school, Nikolai Yakovlevich Pristavkin - Hero of Socialist Labor (available in the wiki) worked to destroy the "flourishing country"

I say once again to the shameful bankrupts and losers: I ALREADY proved with FACTS the wild state with electrification in the Russian village of CENTER of Russia for the 50th anniversary of Okhtyabr (this is in addition to the completely destroyed hundreds of thousands of villages)

But it was so in everything as for the RUSSIAN village - infrastructure, construction, mechanization, chemicalization, social security, wages -wild poverty and poverty in comparison with the Baltics, Ukraine and where the useless anti-Russian leaders sent RUSSIAN funds, taking them away from the Russian people.

Quote: 210ox

Prove that my relatives - Nina Yakovlevna Pristavkina - teacher of the Smolensk school, Nikolai Yakovlevich Pristavkin - Hero of Socialist Labor (available in the wiki) worked to destroy the "flourishing country"

I have no doubt that these are worthy wonderful people, like my family, the Smolensk peasants, who on their backs pulled out both the Second World War and the restoration.

And the party leaders destroyed the grief-Russia, if it didn't come to which neither your nor my relatives had anything to do, as well as the possibility of influencing them

Quote: 210ox

“I support the draft law in the Duma, which attracts such stubborn distorters from the court, especially those who are over the hill.

I FULLY support the prosecution of liars like you ..

And remember, in such processes, your NOT "Pravda" and "Izvestia" will not pass, but will pass DOCUMENTS that your idols carefully and bashfully HID from people: about the death of MILLIONS from hunger, about mass cannibalism and corpse-eating in peacetime, about the island of cannibals Nazino, about wild shootings per year HUNDREDS of thousands of people in peacetime, the extrajudicial exile of MILLIONS, etc.

Quote: 210ox

Especially those over the hill.

it was your worthless leaders who turned Russian Novorossia into Ukraine and Moldova - another, by the way, a crime against the Russian people

[alstr]

Well, everything is simple here.
It was in the 60s that the Unified Energy System was actually created. It was its creation that made it possible to provide a larger number of consumers with electricity.
This time. Secondly, there were simply no resources. Even the electricity itself was not enough.

[Olgovich]

Quote: alstr

Well, everything is simple here.
It was in the 60s that the Unified Energy System was actually created. It was its creation that made it possible to provide a larger number of consumers with electricity.
This time. Secondly, there were simply no resources. Even the electricity itself was not enough.

It's just that Ukraine has long been provided with light, and the homeland of Gagarin, during his flight into space, sat with a torch / kerosene

Quote: alstr

This time. Secondly, there were simply no resources. Even the electricity itself was not enough.

Screams about universal elkrtfktsii screamed even before the Second World War, in this case, in a lie.

[Andrey Chizhevsky]

Yes, it's not about the light bulbs ... the comrade decided to say that by 1914 ALL Russia had not yet crawled out of the bast shoes. But this is not so. Yes - and a kerosene stove and a candle (or even a torch) - were. And bast shoes were. But to assert that the Russian Empire could not at all - this is too much. And the factories - Putilovsky. Obukhovsky .. Baltiysky ... What did they produce? And the smelting of steel and pig iron - where was it done? Really in Europe? For example - in provincial Odessa before WWI there was a factory for the production of airplanes .. And this is a fact. Yes, I am already silent about the weapons - are the "mosinki" really French or American? Yes, we bought it, yes, we didn’t have enough, but we also produced our own, and of good quality.

[Mooh]

They were released, but with a technological lag behind the leaders. There was no systematic production. When a rooster pecked in the ass, they bought a plant for the production of something, and related industries did not develop. Therefore, they could not produce high-tech of those times, that there were no related industries. The engine could be assembled, but there was nothing to produce components for it. There are no machines with the necessary processing accuracy and there is nowhere to make machines, since there is no machine-tool production either.
Since then, in principle, nothing has changed, so we are doing Skoda in Kaluga and BMW in Kaliningrad.

[Andrey Chizhevsky]

Listen - there was such a garbage in France .. And in England. And in Germany. And why, if it is Evropa, is it immediately a leader? And since Russia is the collective farm "20 years without a crop?" By and large, no one had systematic production. Production is private. And as you know, every hut has its own toys. It was then the uncles in the uniforms embroidered with gold from the government gathered in a herd (or kagal - to whom which is closer) and long and tediously decided what to buy and what not. But that's not all. On their decision, the sovereign - the emperor could lay with all his royal ammunition - if he did not like something ... and you say - the system ...

[Alexey RA]

Quote: Andrey Chizhevsky

For example - in provincial Odessa before WWI there was a factory for the production of airplanes ... And this is a fact.

Provincial Odessa at that time was the center of the Empire's grain export. And the family of the owner of the aircraft factory Anatra made their fortune precisely on the transportation of grain cargo.
As for the aircraft plant, it was engaged in the assembly and production of French and German aircraft models. At the same time, it is completely dependent on the supply of aircraft engines from abroad - for it did not have its own engine production. An attempt to organize it in 1916 ended in the fact that imported machine tools were delayed by the delivery and never arrived.

[Andrey Chizhevsky]

That is, not everything was so bad if you made a fortune at the bakery?

[Alexey RA]

Quote: Andrey Chizhevsky

That is, not everything was so bad if you made a fortune at the bakery?

It's like asking about our oligarchs - "That is, not everything was so bad if they made a fortune at the oil sale".
Bread is the main export of the Empire. And Odessa, at the time the Anatra family was making their fortune, is the main center of its export.

[Andrey Chizhevsky]

I will say more - the city of Odessa was conceived as a center of trade in the south of Russia, otherwise it would still be provincial. Hajibey ...

[Vadim237]

As a result, no political and economic revolution, carried out by violent means, the state does not lead to anything good, and Russia showed this on its own skin to the whole world in 1917 and 1991.

[tatra]

Ha, well, you, the enemies of the communists, 30 years after the counter-revolution in Perestroika, boast like all of you "and now it is better than in the USSR", because you got a lot of things.

[Vadim237]

Perestroika and the entire USSR have brought this state and destroyed exactly your communist leaders - raised by the Soviet system and placed in leading positions - If you are crap, have the courage to admit and not transfer arrows to some enemies of the communists, I repeat that the biggest enemies of the communists are the communists themselves.

[Griffith]

The industrial revolution in England, when the peasants were forcibly driven into the cities and people starved to death in droves, as a result of which the population of England was reduced by 15%, this is certainly a trifle. Well, yes, the Industrial Revolution in England is a classically exemplary example of an industrial revolution without violence.

[ANB]

... The Industrial Revolution in England, when peasants were forcibly driven into cities and people starved to death in droves

If hunger. And then they were hanged en masse under the law on vagrancy.

[ivan2022]

Quote: Vadim237

As a result, no political and economic revolution, carried out by violent means, the state does not lead to anything good, and Russia showed this on its own skin to the whole world in 1917 and 1991.

And any state without police, internal troops, prosecutor's office, that is, without a "national path" will not last a day. Or do they exist to pat citizens on the head?

[Vadim237]

"And any state without police, internal troops, prosecutors, that is, without a" national path "will not last a day. Or do they exist to pat citizens on the head?" I’m about Thomas. You tell me about Erema.

[parusnik]

It remains, the couple who were married in the Issakievsky Cathedral, to proclaim the tsar and queen of the Russian land and life will improve. The author does not juggle the facts.

For example, the famous "Magnitka" began in 1916, and at the end of 1917 the construction site stopped.

Significant reserves of iron ore of Magnitnaya Mountain have been known since the 1743th century. In 1874, the Orenburg governor I. I. Neplyuev founded the Magnitnaya fortress on this place. The first official applicants for the mountain's ore reserves were entrepreneurs. In the 150th-1905th centuries, ore from the mountain was supplied to the Beloretsk plant. The Pashkovs owned the mountain alone until 1913. The ore was mined haphazardly for almost XNUMX years and was of a primitive nature. The Provisional Government made an attempt to practically implement the idea of ​​combining Siberian coal and the Ural iron ore. The Bolsheviks actually did the same with the Dnieper Hydroelectric Power Station. The first project of the Dnieper Hydroelectric Power Station, prepared by engineer Heinrich Graftio, ended up on the desk of Emperor Nicholas II in XNUMX, but the tsar underestimated the prospects hydropower. But in XNUMX, Bishop Simeon of Samara and Stavropol reported to Count Orlov-Davydov: “On your ancestral domains, the projectors of the Samara Technical Society, together with the apostate engineer Krzhizhanovsky, are designing the construction of a dam and a large power plant. destroy sedition in conception. " Why did the bishop consider the construction of the Samara dam to be sedition? Because this would have flooded churches and cemeteries, which was considered sacrilege. The tsar refused to build the Dneproges for the same reason, although the project of the engineer Heinrich Graftio provided for the construction of three successive dams and the flooding of a relatively small area.

[Andrey Chizhevsky]

I read the first article. I also got acquainted with this one. How everything is blissful and splendid. But why then did the people refuse this "lepota"? So, probably, he decided - "Someone got fat we are in such an idyll tenacious. We need to demolish everything to the devil. And so that we can shed more blood. Our own - in the civil war. Yes, there is still a little to fight with the invaders. Yes, to starve. Yes devastation .. "Well, something like that ..

[Nik Petrov]

So machine guns were forced to refuse mustard gas

[Dmitry from Voronezh]

And in 1912, many companies and banks united in a consortium for the construction of a hydroelectric power station on the Dnieper rapids - the future Dnieper hydroelectric power station. The project was appraised by German specialists; they also proposed to lay a canal bypassing the future hydroelectric power station, which would make the Dnieper navigable. Construction with an approximate cost of 600 million gold rubles was to begin in 1915. But he, like many other projects, was prevented by the First World War.

[mz]

Quote: Dmitry from Voronezh

And in 1912, many companies and banks united in a consortium for the construction of a hydroelectric power station on the Dnieper rapids - the future Dnieper hydroelectric power station.

Another lie. Are you organically incapable of writing / speaking the truth? Nobody was going to build any Dnipro HPP at that time: it was planned to carry out measures to ensure normal navigation: remove thresholds, deepen the fairway. Including the construction of dams. The construction of local hydroelectric power plants was planned only to "recoup" part of the money. In total, they would not have made up a tenth of the capacity of the Dnieper Hydroelectric Power Station.

[Dmitry from Voronezh]

But you know exactly what then - 110 years ago they were going to build, and what not. And it's not about DniproHES. There was an approved plan for the development of the electric power industry. If they hadn't built it there, they would have built it elsewhere. The country objectively needed electricity and its production grew rapidly. In 1900-1914. the rate of electrification was among the highest in the world.

[tatra]

This anti-Soviet myth has long been exposed on the railways. The historian Pykhalov did it better and in short:
"RI - built 70 thousand km
(of which, by the way, 5 thousand km is a narrow track)

THE USSR -
1) a complete relocation in 1931 - to the 60th of all these 70 thousand km, with the installation of crushed stone base instead of sand, the complete replacement of rails and sleepers, the strengthening of bridges, etc. The result - the weight of the carriage increases fourfold, the weight of the train is five times, the speed is doubled, transportation is ten times.
2) The restoration in the years 1943-50 84 thousand km of tracks that were destroyed during the war by the German.
3) Construction of 50 thousand km of new trunk lines.
4) Construction of 102 thousand km of local and access roads (ППЖТ)

Total: newly built: 152 thousand km
Arranged and restored: 154 thousand km
USSR, total: 306 km.

It does not take into account the restoration of tracks in 1922/28 after WWI, electrification, the device of second tracks, but oh well. It is already clear that another myth has blown away. "
Well, and this

In 1916, more than 5 thousand kilometers of public railways were put into operation.

Generally nonsense, from 1913 to 1917 the length of railways in Ingushetia increased by 2,5 kilometers.

[Dmitry from Voronezh]

Generally nonsense, from 1913 to 1917 the length of railways in Ingushetia increased by 2,5 kilometers.

Doesn't stand up to criticism. Modern historians give different figures. Even Wikipedia gives 8,5 km of railways built in the First World War. There were approved plans for the development of the railway network in the country. These plans were of strategic importance and were carried out even during the war. In 1916, the construction of the Murmansk railway was completed (construction began in 1914).

[Dmitry from Voronezh]

1) a complete re-laying in 1931 - by the 60s of all these 70 thousand km, with the installation of a crushed stone base instead of a sandy one, a complete replacement of rails and sleepers, strengthening bridges, etc.

This is called a major overhaul. All railways need it sooner or later. This is obvious, as is the fact that by the 1950s-1960s. repair and construction of railways proceeded at a different technological level than at the beginning of the century.
[quote2) Restoration in 1943-50 84 thousand km of tracks destroyed during the war by a German.] [/ quote] Not exactly. According to open data, the Germans put out of action about 65 thousand km. At the same time, it is not entirely correct to consider restoration = construction of new roads. This is an easier task than paving new paths.

3) Construction of 50 thousand km of new main lines.
4) Construction of 102 thousand km of local and access roads (ППЖТ)

One can agree with this, but one must take into account that technologies do not stand still. In the 1950s-1960s. The Russian Empire, if it existed, would have much greater opportunities for the construction of railways than at the beginning of the century. The comparison of 1950 is untenable. since 1913.

[Vadim237]

Yes, only one fact was missed - from 1917 to 1960, progress in construction in construction equipment and in everything else did not stand still, therefore, to compare how much was built in the Republic of Ingushetia and in the USSR before the 60th - pure idiocy.

[Glagol1]

In rich countries, revolutions don't happen. In Russia there was a large stratification, the median average salary was small, 80% of the population lived in poverty or close to poverty. Of course, 1917 was a disaster, or rather its beginning. The authorities are completely guilty of this, they did not keep the country, as in 1991, the same thing, there was nothing to eat, the authorities brought the country to its handle, and that blazed up. The current Russian government is leading the country to another explosion. What will be left of us this time? Maybe nothing already ...

[Andrey Chizhevsky]

You already - I quote - have nothing to "eat"?

[for]

Quote: Glagol1

In rich countries, revolutions don't happen.

Why, in France, did they overeat pies and build two revolutions?

[Gardamir]

as in 1991

And imagine, in 1912, Nicholas would have developed a vigorous activity to denounce tsarism and began to call forward to socialism .. But it was so in the late 80s, there was something to eat. but I really wanted to please world capitalism.

[Vadim237]

The current Russian government is leading the country to another explosion. It will not be because all the current revolutionaries will be attracted under the article for terrorism and extremism, and all this will be done at the root of hello to modern means of information and communication control, and judging by the adopted laws, the same pension reform increase in all taxes and new fees - the reaction of the population to it can be said that the majority of the population is happy with everything.

[tatra]

Thus, grain consumption in agriculture grew 3 times faster than the rural population.

The growth of the total grain harvest in Russia in the 625th century. - the beginning of the XX century. was accompanied by a significant reduction in the provision of grain per capita, a decrease in self-sufficiency, if we compare the years of record harvests, the highest grain yields (even excluding grain exports): 1842 kg - in 1843-506; 1870 kg - in 1878 and 535; 1894 kg - in 528; 1913 kg - in XNUMX

[Dmitry from Voronezh]

Paul Gregory and A.A. Borisyuk cites other facts. Yields could vary from year to year, but in general the provision of the population with food products, including grain, grew.

[mz]

Quote: Dmitry from Voronezh

Yields could vary from year to year, but in general the provision of the population with food products, including grain, grew.

No, since with some growth in food production, export also increased, so 90 percent of the population did not receive more food.

[Dmitry from Voronezh]

Paul Gregory writes that grain consumption has been increasing. Perhaps I am inclined to believe him more than you. A scientist after all ...

[savage1976]

Thanks to the author for the article. Alas, many people, comparing the country's economy with a difference of 20,50, for 100 years forget that during this time and technologies are changing a lot. It's like now comparing the number of sent SMS in 1978 and 2020, and in 2008 there were more SMS than in 2020, so we are witnessing the decline of cellular communication.

[Ross xnumx]

Quote: savage1976

and in 2008 there was more SMS than in 2020, so we are witnessing the decline of cellular communications.

Some found the end of the 90s - the beginning of the 2000s in the sperm-ovum (or slider) form and may not know anything about pagers ...

[Vovan]

Oh, and lovers of the crunch of French rolls love to pull an owl on a globe: linear extrapolation is something with something. There was no regular famine in the village, because the official mortality rate did not grow. Well, there was no point. And so on for each thesis.
For those who want to understand - read, for example, for a start: https://skaramanga-1972.livejournal.com/36684.html

[parusnik]

I noticed a peculiarity, as soon as the infa passed on VO about the wedding of royal persons and the crunch began. That about popular monarchism, now here is another article, it seems to be a continuation of the previous one, but somehow at the time.

[IS-80_RVGK2]

Samsonov changed his shoes on the fly once again. Journalists for a small price they are.

[Reptiloid]

Quote: parusnik

I noticed the peculiarity as soon as the infa passed on VO about the wedding of royal persons and the crunch began ....... and.

Greetings, Alex! ---- passed information, you say? But we need to remember and think about it ---- for the higher-ranking infa about marriage, after all, it passed much earlier. Such events are very well planned in advance ... and knowledge of this should leave an imprint on the behavior and actions of the superiors. For a long time. And not only in Russia.

[tatra]

The enemies of the communists who seized the USSR are primitive and limited, and to justify their capture of the USSR for the purpose of personal enrichment at the expense of the country and the people, they created a primitive "ideology" - slandered those from whom they took the country, proving that they did not care at all - who were those people, and what they did, they would slander anyone according to the template of their anti-Sovietism, and created a myth that everything was wonderful BEFORE those from whom they took the country away in their Perestroika.

[Unisonic]

Thank you for the article.

By the end of its history, the Russian Empire was clearly in better economic shape than the Soviet Union.
But both states demanded reforms, which would be done by wise people. There have been problems with such in Russia since the time of Peter the Great. Or rather, not so, the problem is their complete absence. Well, except that you can remember P. Stolypin and A. Kosygin. That's all.

[tatra]

By the end of its history, the Russian Empire was clearly in better economic shape than the Soviet Union.

Now prove it with facts.

[Kronos]

Only Stolypin further intensified the class stratification in the empire, while Kosygin only aggravated the economic problems of the USSR.

[Vadim237]

The economic problems of the USSR were laid down from the very beginning - a planned distribution economy with a super-monopoly regulator in everything in the form of a state, because of which these problems were not solved and they led the country to bankruptcy - budget expenditures are a lot of revenues and this is with an equally poor population.

[Hanurik]

Is this the Kosygin who ruined the communist economy?

[210ox]

Please explain about the "communist economy". As far as I remember, we never reached communism.

[nickolai.maliugin]

The author has been preparing the material for a long time. We have very little time allotted. At each breakdown of the social system, the country suffers huge losses. The subjunctive mood of the author is incorrect in history. We are not talking about what would have happened to the USSR if it had not collapsed. After all, the losses were considerable during the collapse. In terms of electricity, the author suddenly compares France, not the USSR. Such selectivity. Already before the revolution, Russia lagged behind in non-ferrous metallurgy, in the production of chemical materials. It is correctly indicated here that foreigners played a large role in pre-revolutionary industrial companies.

[tatra]

The enemies of the communists who seized the RSFSR and categorically refused to take responsibility for the seizure, that is, for Russia and the Russian people, for what they did to them, not just for the sake of profit in their false anti-Soviet with hypocritical "philanthropy" praise Russia, which we lost "in October 1917, although their RI" ends "in 1913.
They proved that this is exactly the State they want to return.
They have already returned the richest power and the Church, the System with a huge gap in the incomes of the people, the raw-material-import economy, the high mortality rate of the people, again sold Russia to foreigners, for 30 years they have taken from the people the social benefits given to them by the communists, and impudently implanted religion.

[Kote Pan Kokhanka]

Quote: tatra

Enemies of the communists who seized the RSFSR

Tatra, you have not answered my question, how can you afford to receive from these vile "enemies of the communists" no less disgusting Moscow supplement to the pension in the amount of 20000 rubles?

[Ross xnumx]

The revolutions of 1917 set the country back decades. The level of 1913 GDP of the USSR reached about 1928-1929. In these conditions, the notorious lag behind Western countries has increased significantly and demanded radical measures to create industrial power.

Author! You made a very interesting conclusion, absolutely excluding the role in pushing Russia back decades of the Russian-Japanese war, the subsequent revolution of 1905, the First World War, foreign intervention and economic collusion against the young Soviet Republic. By the way, could you tell us about how the royal treasury was filled and where did it go?
==========
If the Bolshevik party, led by the VIL, did not take the political leadership of the country thrown by the tsar into their own hands, then Hitler would not have made a big effort to divide Russian land into pieces ... Or is the example of WWII in the European theater of military operations not an example for you? Moreover, that Britain, which is scampering on its islands, would look in a completely different form today ...

[Kote Pan Kokhanka]

Quote: ROSS 42

If the Bolshevik party, led by the VIL, did not take the political leadership of the country thrown by the tsar into its own hands, then Hitler would not have made a big effort to divide Russian land into pieces.

What can I say, I agree!
Alternative conclusions and conjectures, an abstract thing. But the fact remains that we won the bloodiest war and the hardest victory during the years of the USSR and under the leadership of Stalin.

[Vadim237]

Only now the seed of this war was laid by Lenin in 1917 - who could end the war with Kaiser Germany by occupying part of its territory, thereby destroying the road along which Hitler came to power. But he did not, and the 41st USSR took a full sip.

[Dmitry from Voronezh]

Neither the Russo-Japanese War, nor the 1905 Revolution had a significant impact on the country's economy. There was a slight decline, which soon gave way to an upswing. In World War I, the economy grew slightly, there was no recession. Foreign intervention had very little effect on events in the country. There was a civil war - Russians against Russians. The country's gold reserves were stolen during the civil war. The king never left the country and preferred to perish than to flee the country. To argue "what if ..." is a waste of time. I will only say that the actions of the Soviet government in the years before the start of the Great Patriotic War and in its early years can hardly be considered successful. It is difficult to call what the country has experienced other than a catastrophe ... Is this an example of successful actions?

[p0pulivox]

The author presented the readers with an ordinary alternative story, confidently pulling an owl onto the globe. The same nonsense has been regularly preached for a long time by Dionysus Kaptar (Dmitry Zykin), who reacted somewhat painfully when he was poked with his nose in stretching and twitching in his pseudo-historical socio-economic publications on the topic "Russia We Lost."

[SVD68]

If not for the October Revolution, then at the end of the First World War, Russia would have had a debt of 60 billion gold rubles, including 16 billion of foreign debt.

[Fat]

Victor. Britain stole all the bail deposited by Romanov live in British banks. So what are we talking about? Was that an overwhelming debt?

[Vadim237]

This is the smallest compared to what was lost in the civilian.

[Dmitry from Voronezh]

You can read about debts here: https://zen.yandex.ru/media/evilrussian/o-pogriazshei-v-dolgah-carskoi-rossii-i-pervoi-mirovoi-5e932ce496412e33aac3d6dd. On my own behalf, I will add: was it the best decision to lose the war, lose vast territories, refuse to pay the tsarist debts, thereby destroying your business reputation and leaving the country without foreign investment?

[Vadim237]

Western countries confiscated billions of $ 25 billion of foreign property of the Republic of Ingushetia after the Bolsheviks refused to provide external debts of the previous government.

[Undecim]

The author continues to pull the owl onto the globe, manipulating figures and facts and creating a kind of abstraction to substantiate his cheating revelations.

Steel smelting: 1892-1916 - an increase of 4,7 times, 1916-1940. - an increase of 4,3 times.
Iron smelting: 1892-1916 - an increase of 4,2 times, 1916-1940. - an increase of 3,9 times.
Coal mining: 1892-1916 - an increase of 8,5 times, 1916-1940. - an increase of 4,8 times.
Electricity generation: 1916 - 2,6 billion kWh, 1924 - 1,6 billion kWh.
Brick production: 1894–1913 - growth by 4 times, 1913-1940. - an increase of 2,2 times.
Glass production: 1894–1913 - growth by 4,5 times, 1913-1940. - growth by 1,9 times.
Cement production: 1894-1913 - 15 times growth, 1913-1940 - growth by 3 times.

There are many numbers, but they are not about anything at all.
Let's add some numbers from here.

Russia's share in world pig iron production:
1861 - 3,9%
1870 - 3,0%
1880 - 2,5%
1890 - 3,4%
1900 - 7,1%
1909 - 4,7%,
Pig iron production in 1860-1910, thousand poods.

That's the whole "growth at times".

[Vadim237]

Well, in 20 years, production has tripled. The one that growth takes place. In the United States, it is the same.

[Griffith]

HM. The presentation of data is clearly biased. Where it is profitable, a comparison with the USSR in perspective is shown. Where it is not profitable, they are taken selectively for 1 year in comparison with some one or two countries of the Western world. In general, a fat minus. The question arises: if everything was so fine, then why did a riot break out in Ingushetia? Probably mad with fat? Yeah ...

[your1970]

Quote: Griffit

The question arises: if everything was so fine, then why did a riot break out in Ingushetia? Probably mad with fat?

Maidan happened in country 404 ... were you furious with fat?

[Griffith]

Don't compare black with sour. Firstly, RI was an established state with a 1000-year history compared to an unfinished 404. Secondly, the reasons for the revolt are of a natural and artificial order. And everyone knows perfectly well what caused the riot in RI and in 404.

[Vadim237]

The question arises: if everything was so fine, then why did a riot break out in Ingushetia? Probably mad with fat? Probably because it was organized at the top by the liberals in power - and the time was right for a large-scale war, and with the shortage of food in St. Petersburg, they fussed in advance simply by letting the duck say the food ends on this crowd on the streets and brought them out by directing them to the desired gate.

[Pushkar]

The revolutions of 1917 set the country back decades.

It's clear. The most advanced economy in the world with the angelic king-father was destroyed by the Herods-Bolsheviks.

[Vasilenko Vladimir]

One of the main indicators of a country in all its eras is the rate of economic growth.

stupidity and charlatanism, firstly, growth rates are never linear over time, as a rule, they fade, and secondly, not only rates but also volumes are important

[Maks1995]

Yes. Since the author is talking about growth all the time, and not about production, then this is a scam.

It is known that "such a wonderful RI" borrowed money, weapons, and uniforms with supplies. And so much so that the whites afterwards could not use it all up and the Entente took it back.

[Aag]

Quote: Svarog

Quote: Dart2027

In any country you can find some amount dissatisfied

Some kind of yes .. in any country there is .. Therefore, in European countries they try not to forget about it .. but in African countries .. regularly revolutions and coups .. Why? Because there is not a certain amount .. but most of the dissatisfied .. and how do not disguise it, how do not shout urya .. what do not write articles-odes .. people can not be fooled .. maybe at first, of course, but when it comes to refrigerator .. it will be sad .. but someone hurts. Unfortunately, history does not teach anything ..

Dear, (True!) Svarog. (You got a lot of "pluses from me, I understand, that's not the point.) (Yes, and please, no offense, if I don't answer promptly, I work as long as I can.)
... Looks like, not for long. )))

[Kote Pan Kokhanka]

Thanks to the author, but objectively.
Tables and diagrams are good, but the Russian Empire and the RSFSR (USSR) are far from to the same in area. In fact, Soviet Russia lost the industrialized territories of Poland, Finland, the Baltic states and western Ukraine and Belarus. So, it is deeply incorrect to impute not the fulfillment of any "plans".
I was surprised by a number of biased theses.
For example, the
“All factories producing railway locomotives to this day were built in pre-revolutionary Russia. It is enough to look at the year of their foundation. "
Ural locomotives in Verkhnyaya Pyshma. The plant was founded in 2010.
Similarly, when describing the length of railways, the Author forgets about their density. Here the Russian Empire was only in the top 20. Today the Russian Federation confidently ranks 5th in the world. Whose merit? Definitely not Nicholas II.
You can continue on, but laziness. The truth is she is a capricious virgin and somewhere in the middle!

[IS-80_RVGK2]

Quote: Kote pane Kohanka

Thanks to the author

Thank you for what ?! For an outright lie ?!

[Kote Pan Kokhanka]

Quote: IS-80_RVGK2

Quote: Kote pane Kohanka

Thanks to the author

Thank you for what ?! For an outright lie ?!

Olegovich (The Author) stubbornly bends his line. Obstinacy commands respect. Moreover, he is ready for discussion, in contrast to a number of representatives of the opposite point of view, who, apart from "enemies of the communists", cannot squeeze anything out of themselves.

[IS-80_RVGK2]

Quote: Kote pane Kohanka

Obstinacy commands respect.

I have no respect for such obstinacy. Chronic stupidity either makes me wildly angry or amuses me.

Quote: Kote pane Kohanka

Moreover, he is ready for discussion.

This cannot be called a discussion. He does not hear his opponent at all. And he constantly lies.

[your1970]

Quote: Kote pane Kohanka

industrialized territories of Poland, Finland, the Baltic states and western Ukraine and Belarus.

Industrially developed Baltic states, Western region and Western Belarus ????

[Artemion3]

Note to all workers

[Vadim237]

RSFSR Russia has always been and remains a tit for sucking money and resources from all these fraternal republics.

[Seamaster]

The content of the article is inspiring. And it leads to only one conclusion: 3 revolutions in 12 years - our ancestors were mad with fat. Croissants and crispy buns were too full.

[Vadim237]

No, they were just idiots - the crowd is a herd, mindless state of people and it can be controlled quite easily, even to the detriment of the crowd itself, so the RI was overwhelmed and then the USSR, the main thing is to create conditions for the formation of this crowd.

[ivan2022]

Where did the author get the "new facts" from? From the secret archives of the NKVD, of course ... More of them in a century or a half to get just nowhere.

[IgorIP]

Funny article)) By simple manipulations with numbers, we get from a backward agrarian country, with an illiterate population, the flagship of the world economy!)) This article made my day!)

[Baron pardus]

I will not waste my time answering another crisp bakery nonsense. Everything is done before me
https://m-kalashnikov.livejournal.com/67088.html

Well, you have a rush to revive the estate state there. Already at the government level they say "Our goal is Russia during the times of Nicholas II". True, they do not say whether they will return the lost territories (including Poland and Finland) or not. Unclear. But already the "monarchic marriage" (which is not at all monarchical but grotesque cosplay of holy fools), with the guard of honor of the Preobrazhensky regiment, was done. You are already building 2 churches a day (instead of colleges, clinics, research institutes and factories). So you will soon have an estate state. And all the other charms - two lost in a splash war, killed in the trash (still more than now) the economy, and then two revolutions, a civil war and intervention.
Only this time you have neither Lenin, nor Stalin, nor the people who believe in at least some idea of ​​the acre of consumption - .. enia.

[IS-80_RVGK2]

Quote: Baron Pardus

Only this time you have neither Lenin, nor Stalin, nor the people who believe in at least some idea of ​​the acre of consumption - .. enia.

And who has them? After all the achievements of scientific and technological revolution, our ball became terribly small and vulnerable. One way or another, the new war will affect everyone. Therefore, I am wildly angry with all these arrogant fools who think that they will not be hurt. They are in God on a special account, smart and beautiful like that monkey.

[Baron pardus]

Who has them? China. President Xi is a figure, if not on the scale of Lenin or Stalin (there were simply no such figures, with very rare exceptions, for example Frederick the Great, Hideyoshi and the Yellow Emperor), then definitely this is a figure of the caliber of Bismarck and Churchill. The greatest politician of our generation. Trump is no worse, but Trump was a stranger for both Democrats and Republicans, and they simply got rid of him in order to continue "business as usual". So China will win. They are led by the Wolf (by the way, it is no coincidence that President XI spoke about the path of the "Wolf-Diplomat."

[IS-80_RVGK2]

Quote: Baron Pardus

Who has them? China.

I would not jump to conclusions. China has enough problems. And whether he will cope with them is a big question. Plus, Chinese National Socialism is a road to nowhere.

[Baron pardus]

Yes, they do not have National Socialism. Non-Asians are not processed there for soap and their rights are not infringed upon. Know Chinese, assimilate and you will be happy. My opinion, and I’m even ready to bet, that Russia and the United States will cease to exist within their present borders and disintegrate, and China will rake in new territories. (And he will absolutely do it right).
China with a mixed economy and under the leadership of the Communist Party is a priori stronger than the oligarchic USA and the plutocratic feudal Russia, which is intensively building an estate state.

[IS-80_RVGK2]

Quote: Baron Pardus

Yes, they do not have National Socialism.

No, there is. The socialist state does not behave like that. They are fixated exclusively on themselves.

Quote: Baron Pardus

Know Chinese, assimilate and you will be happy.

What if I don't want to be Chinese?
If I do not want to be decided for me how to live? If I don't fucking need Putin, Biden, Trump, Xi, Netanyahu, Merkel, Erdogan, or other people who don't fucking work in my interests? What then? This is precisely what is called fascism.
The whole world is slowly slipping into fascism. And that for me even Jews, Ukrainians, Belarusians, Russians are utterly savage. After what happened with us. At the same time, everyone is unanimously denouncing each other as fascists.

Quote: Baron Pardus

China with a mixed economy and under the leadership of the Communist Party is a priori stronger than the oligarchic USA and the plutocratic feudal Russia, which is intensively building an estate state.

Capitalism has won long ago. And if so, they have lost all the advantages of the socialist economy. And that means the same awaits them as the United States. There are no miracles.

[Baron pardus]

Remind you of Stalin? Socialism in a SEPARATE COUNTRY. Stalin, by the way, did not scatter resources for “fraternal” Ethiopia, “fraternal” Egypt, or some other “camp”. If you don't want to be Chinese, don't go to China. And if China comes to you, all claims - to your government, which merged with China. The strongest win and write history. "History will be kind to me, for I intend to write it" - Winston Churchill. China is doing it ABSOLUTELY right. I support.

[mat-vey]

Quote: Baron Pardus

Stalin, by the way, did not scatter resources for “fraternal” Ethiopia, “fraternal” Egypt, or some other “camp”.

And for "not fraternal" Spain, and Mongolia with China, for example?

[Baron pardus]

Remind you where the Gold Reserve of Spain ended up? Stalin also made money on this (And he did the right thing, the freebie corrupts). in Mongolia there was a slightly specific situation - close proximity to the Soviet Borders.

[mat-vey]

Well, this is not Africa:
"Until 1949, aid to the countries of Eastern Europe was unilateral: from the USSR. For example, a crop failure in 1947 could have plunged Czechoslovakia into such economic difficulties from which the country could not escape for a number of years. The damage from the crop failure in 1947 is estimated at 13 billion hours. It was only thanks to the disinterested assistance of the Soviet Union that Czechoslovakia not only did not survive the food crisis, but came out of it without a serious passive balance.

Already in 1945, when Romania went over to the side of the anti-Hitler coalition, the Soviet command for the first time provided the Romanian side with wheat, corn and potatoes for sowing. Romania was provided with 150 thousand tons of wheat and 150 thousand tons of corn under a loan, which had to be returned in 1946-1947. A similar volume of grain on the world market at that time was worth about $ 35 million. The Romanian authorities were unable to repay the loan. "
And yes, but Israel did not receive anything from the USSR at the time of its re-creation?

[Baron pardus]

You have given examples only to underline my case. How did Czechoslovakia thank the USSR? Anti-Soviet uprisings that had to be suppressed. How did Israel thank the USSR? Becoming a US outpost in the Middle East. They helped, on your own head. The best example of the fact that no good deed goes unpunished. If you spent the money on Chekhov, you got an uprising. If you spent your money on Israel, you got an enemy. It would be more prudent for the Israelis and the British and Arabs to cut each other out for a very long time, and the United States had to scratch its turnips, thinking who to help and which lobby in its country to listen to, and which to get into enemies. The Czechs are also such valuable "Soyuznichki" that they do not need enemies with them. When did they start their "rebellion"? Emnip May 3, 1945. Rebelled, damn it. Freedom fighters. But on civilians and prisoners of war, they took it out, warriors commercials. With such allies as the Czechs, enemies are not needed. But the Skoda factories should be dismantled to a screw and brought to the USSR, along with useful personnel - engineers. As they worked for the Reich, they would have worked for the USSR.

[mat-vey]

Quote: Baron Pardus

Remind you of Stalin? Socialism in a SEPARATE COUNTRY. Stalin, by the way, did not scatter resources for "fraternal" Ethiopia, "fraternal" Egypt

Quote: Baron Pardus

You have given examples only to underline my case.

Where?

[Baron pardus]

You cited Czechoslovakia as an example. The USSR helped them and in gratitude they raised a counter-revolutionary mutiny in 1968, which my dad suppressed. You cited Israel as an example, the USSR helped him, and received an enemy and an outpost of the United States in the Middle East. There was no need to help either one or the other. Why? I explained. I won't repeat it a second time. Learn to read the answers CAREFULLY. It is idiocy to waste resources on others without benefiting your country.

[mat-vey]

Quote: Baron Pardus

You cited Czechoslovakia as an example

And why did I cite her as an example? Maybe because you stated that:

Quote: Baron Pardus

Stalin, by the way, did not scatter resources for “fraternal” Ethiopia, “fraternal” Egypt, or some other “camp”.

Quote: Baron Pardus

It is idiocy to waste resources on others without benefiting your country.

Are you saying that Stalin was an idiot?

[Baron pardus]

Stalin, for all his genius, made mistakes. EVERYONE made mistakes. Even Frederick the Great. Even the Yellow Emperor. Even Alexander the Great and even Napoleon, even Richelieu. Stalin, for example, overlooked the traitors in his midst. Starting from Khrushchev and ending with Zhukov. Stalin made a mistake with both the Czechs and Israel. Stalin, for example, too much trusted the "local comrades" which resulted in both famine (the so-called "Holodomor") and repression when Stalin was forced to pull away "local comrades" with notes like "If I instructed you to be vigilant, this does not mean that you must develop counterrevolutionaries in bulk. " He sent a note of approximately this content to Khrushchev. By the way, he also almost missed the conspiracy of generals and Trotskyists, when before the war one general said to another, "If the Germans come here, then neither I nor you will be any worse." So Stalin made mistakes. All Great People make mistakes.

[mat-vey]

It seems that you had everything in order with the formal logic ... and there are so many words ... Duck "squandered" or not "squandered"?

[Baron pardus]

Helping both the Czechs and the Romanians and Israel was a MISTAKE.

[mat-vey]

Quote: Baron Pardus

Helping both the Czechs and the Romanians and Israel was a MISTAKE.

So it was all the same? And at the expense of an error or not - it's not for you to judge - you don't know all the input and output ...

[IS-80_RVGK2]

Quote: Baron Pardus

Remind you of Stalin? Socialism in a SEPARATE COUNTRY.

Do I remind you? He said that the victory of socialism will never be final and irrevocable until the whole world comes to a new socio-economic formation.

Quote: Baron Pardus

If you don't want to be Chinese, don't go to China.

Q if i'm a Uyghur? How are the Chinese with the national republics? No way. They have National Socialism, do not build any illusions.

Quote: Baron Pardus

And if China comes to you, all claims - to your government, which merged with China.

According to this logic, if Hitler had won it would have been right. And this is not correct.

Quote: Baron Pardus

The strongest win and write history.

When the Mongol-Tatars walked across Russia with fire and sword, it then backfired with centuries of lag behind Europe. The fact that the block of capitalist countries defeated had a negative impact on the entire planet and this is still in bloom, in the future we have even more fun. We must distinguish between the victories of the progressive forces and the reactionary ones.

Quote: Baron Pardus

Support.

Let's see what you say next. When it all touches you directly.

[Vadim237]

"He said that the victory of socialism will never be final and irrevocable until the whole world comes to a new socio-economic formation." If it does come, it will clearly not be communism or socialism.

[IS-80_RVGK2]

Quote: Vadim237

If it does come, it will clearly not be communism or socialism.

Nonsense and obscurantism.

[Vadim237]

No harsh and cruel truth - for you who blindly believe in all sorts of utopias.

[Alexey Lantukh]

The numbers are in numbers, but what's behind them is also important. For example: Tula increased the output of gingerbread by a billion, and Saratov increased the output of the necessary metalworking centers by a billion. Well, who pushed Russia further? In tsarist Russia, as well as in United Russia, in comparison with the same Western Europe, the level of advanced products is still low. Emphasis on raw materials and grain. So our problems are centuries old. This should be corrected in the calculation of the economy.

[Vadim237]

In tsarist Russia, as well as in United Russia, in comparison with the same Western Europe, the level of advanced products is still low. Probably because all the markets are already occupied - it remains to occupy only niches, and if they begin to do everything of their own within the country - in view of the open market, there will be no absolute demand for purely ours. We produce and release only what pays for production and is in demand + the state pays extra for critical products there for the maintenance of production.

[16112014nk]

It turns out that everything was better under tsarism. And the peasants do not even know.
Forward - to the victory of communism, that is, the monarchy! Moreover, there is a candidate.

[ivan2022]

Somewhere I have seen this for a long time! Yes, Lenin's book "The Development of Capitalism in Russia" was passed at school. The beginning of the century! Lenin proves that capitalism exists and develops in Russia, despite the dominance of the nobles. Which themselves do not work and do not give to others.

But the author proves what?
That we need to move towards a brighter future under the leadership of Tsar Grisha? And his nobles? And where will he get them from? And what about capitalism?
Capitalism doesn't work the same way as socialism?

[Unisonic]

Quote: tatra

By the end of its history, the Russian Empire was clearly in better economic shape than the Soviet Union.

Now prove it with facts.

The facts are given in the article. Study.

[nedgen]

Ex Alexander, and where did you see the facts in the article? For example, I saw percentages and times WITHOUT SPECIFIC NUMBERS. And also distortions of the same percentages. For example, a comparison of the Republic of Ingushetia and the USSR, say 1913 and 1928. And the conditions in which there was RI in the 13th and the USSR in 1928, where are the instructions? And where is it indicated, for example, with the growth rate of the economy, what was it formed by? For example, in the Republic of Ingushetia, it was formed primarily by an easy and finishing industry. And in the USSR in 30-40 heavy industry !!! I hope you catch the difference? Although unlikely. A very typical example of this is the rifle cartridge, shell and machine-gun famine until 1916 in WWI (and this is not to mention the absolute shortage of heavy artillery until the very end of WWII, and the small caliber shell hunger was overcome mainly due to supplies from France, for example). Since their machines were not produced from the word AT ALL, the RI industry could not dramatically increase the production of EVEN rifles. There was nothing to do them with. And this is despite the fact that the mosinka is far from the most complicated product of the military industry.

[Dmitry from Voronezh]

In 1916, the Russian Empire produced from 40 to 82 thousand machine tools from various sources. For the production of rifles in Russia in 1914-1916. bypassed England, France, Italy, slightly yielding to Germany and Austria-Hungary. At the beginning of 1917, there were about 17 thousand machine guns in the Russian army against 16 thousand German machine guns on the Eastern Front. Everybody lacked heavy artillery. This is a common problem. Nevertheless. in 1915-1917 Russian industry produced 41 artillery systems of special power, while Germany only 19.

[faiver]

you forgot to indicate how many tons of gold Nikolai sent abroad to provide all this.
As for rifles, can you tell me why RI bought Japanese Arisaki, American Winchesters, French Lebelles, English Lewis machine guns, French Hotchkiss machine guns, if everything was so good, all these weapons quite survived in warehouses until WW2 and even fought ...

[Alexey RU64]

And how many tons. And where did the data come from?

[faiver]

the bill goes to hundreds of tons, look on the internet

[Dmitry from Voronezh]

I am aware that there were not enough weapons. But this is a topic for another conversation. In short, in my opinion, the authorities did what they could - they lacked their own - they bought them abroad. The defense of the country demanded that. And it cannot be said that the actions of the authorities were fundamentally wrong: the war was developing hard, but there was no military defeat as such. The infamous Brest-Litovsk peace is a direct consequence of the revolutions of 1917.

[faiver]

The infamous Brest-Litovsk peace is a direct consequence of the revolutions of 1917.

- It is obvious

The defense of the country demanded that.

- so no one attacked RI, Nicholas II, not out of great intelligence, in fact provoked two wars, which he shamefully lost, and the last one with a lethal outcome for himself, his family and the country ...

[Dmitry from Voronezh]

Russia did not lose the First World War. There was no military defeat by 1917. And that war was provoked by Germany and Austria-Hungary, but by no means Russia.

[faiver]

Russia did not lose the First World War.

- the overthrow of state power, the collapse of the empire, the Brest-Litovsk peace and the payment of reparations, a civil war, is this not a loss? well tady oh ...

[Dmitry from Voronezh]

These events triggered the February coup. Without him, the war would undoubtedly have been won. It is obvious.

[faiver]

Yes, this is obvious, but the February revolution / coup was the result of what? The result of the policy of power, both external and internal, but politics is a continuation of the economy, we know the result ...

[Dmitry from Voronezh]

You are simplifying. The main reason for the February coup is the emergence of a new subject in the country's politics - they can be conditionally compared with modern liberals. The main instrument of power of these people was the State Duma; these people were oriented towards the West. They were in close ties with Western capital, supported the Western way of life and wanted to participate in the government of the country as in the West. Nicholas II was in the way of thought and ideals an autocrat. He got in the way. At some point, the ruling class simply turned away from him, relying on their own strength. And the country plunged into chaos ...

[faiver]

I agree with everything, except for the assessment of the king.

conditionally they can be compared with modern liberals

- who let them into power in 1905? Resulting in?

[Dmitry from Voronezh]

I think that the admission of the new elite to power was only a matter of time. The feudal state relies on the class of landowners-feudal lords, and the capitalist - on the holders of the capital-oligarchy. Since Russia at the beginning of the twentieth century becomes a capitalist country, the ruling class is changing and the new elite needs an instrument of power under its control - that is, a parliament. Therefore, the autocracy in Russia had no future. At best, it would degenerate into a constitutional monarchy in the image of England or Germany. Perhaps this would be the best path for the country and the country was gradually moving in this direction. As for the events of 1905, the Russo-Japanese War was simply a catalyst that accelerated changes in society. With all this, I am not arguing that autocracy for the country is worse or better than a constitutional monarchy or a republic. It's just that society is changing and the forms of government are changing along with it. This is a natural process.

[faiver]

As for the events of 1905, the Russo-Japanese War was simply a catalyst that accelerated changes in society.

- this was the result of Nikolai's erroneous policy, he himself launched this process, provoking the Russo-Japanese war, although Russia did not need either Korea or Port Arthur, then climbed into the Entente - this is how you have to be hit on your head in order to become an allies England, which was openly an ally of Japan in the war with Russia, climbed to defend the Serbs who slammed the heir to Austria-Hungary, who will tell us what good the Serbs have done to us over the past 150 years?

[Dmitry from Voronezh]

I think this is a misconception that Nicholas II provoked the Russo-Japanese War. Russia was actively advancing in the Far East. Participated in the Chinese events of the early twentieth century. Interference in the affairs of Korea became a logical continuation of this policy. And this is already the sphere of Japanese interests. So a collision was inevitable. It's just that England and the United States helped Japan in time with money, technology.
The basis of the Entente was the Franco-Russian alliance, concluded under Alexander III. And Russia's participation in this alliance is quite logical. Germany at the beginning of the twentieth century - the first power in Europe - is stronger separately than both Russia and France. But the Franco-Russian alliance made it possible to contain Germany's ambitions. If we did not participate in the Entente, there was a risk of the situation in 1941, when Germany, having defeated France, received the possibility of unlimited expansion in the east. There was a risk of being left 1 on 1 with Germany, and maybe with Germany + Austria-Hungary. So participation in the Entente was not a mistake, it was a necessity.
The defense of the Slavs in the Balkans is a very old line of Russian policy since the time of Alexander II. Russia viewed the Balkan Slavs as potential allies and even as a possible field for further expansion. But this is normal, all countries are striving for expansion. Now I cannot say for sure whether it was the right decision to defend the Serbs in 1914. Maybe it was worth retreating, waiting, and gaining time? But here it should be borne in mind that Nicholas II did not make the decision alone. It is necessary to take into account the environment of the king, the army elite. After all, no one thought that the war would take on such a character! The First World War is unlike any of the wars of the nineteenth century.

[faiver]

I think this is a misconception,

- think, I think differently and I think your arguments are erroneous ...

[svp67]

Quote: Dmitry from Voronezh

For the production of rifles in Russia in 1914-1916. bypassed England, France, Italy, slightly yielding to Germany and Austria-Hungary.

But, you are missing the next ...
At the very beginning of that war, SUDDENLY a shortage of 870 thousand rifles was revealed: 585 thousand - for the recruits of the 1914 draft; 170 thousand - for replenishment according to the requirements of the fronts; 93 thousand - for reserve battalions; 22 thousand - for the newly formed units of the Cossacks.
That is, the army entered the war not equipped with small arms ...
Until the end of the 1914th year of the war, only 132 rifles were received from the factories.
1915, 733 rifles were produced, at the needs of the army, only to replenish the loss of 017 barrels. Fantastic figure
1916, produced 1 301 433 rifles, but this figure was lower than the need.
As a result, during the war years, 2 rifles were purchased: including, in the USA - 461, in Japan - 000, in France - 657, in Italy - 000, in England - 635

Quote: Dmitry from Voronezh

At the beginning of 1917, there were about 17 thousand machine guns in the Russian army against 16 thousand German machine guns on the Eastern Front.

Hooray!!!!! We made them .... But oops, but against the Austro-Hungarian ones, what did they put up? It is worth recalling that only Austria-Hungary, during the years of that war, fired almost as many machine guns as the Republic of Ingushetia, 24500 against 26779, with an overall overwhelming superiority in this respect of Germany - 174. , according to the density of machine guns per one kilometer of the front.

Quote: Dmitry from Voronezh

Nevertheless. in 1915-1917 Russian industry produced 41 artillery systems of special power, while Germany only 19.

Yes, yes ..... How we have them ....
Yeah, of course ... Over the years of the war, 20 art systems were produced in RI, 800 in GI, 64 in AVI. These are all art systems, with an OVERWEKING superiority in the release of shells in GI and AVI (thousand pieces )
1914 RI - 656 against GI - 2 and AVI - 000
1915 RI - 12 555 against GI - 40 000 and AVI - 11 400
1916 RI - 33 069 against 72 000 and AVI - 16 800

[savage1976]

And what was the lack of rifles, shells, tanks, airplanes and so on and so forth in 1941? Or were they all with PPSh, T-34 and IL-2? And at the same time, Joseph Vissarionovich for 10 years prepared the country for war, developed heavy industry. In war, everything is always lacking.

[svp67]

Quote: savage1976

And what was the lack of rifles, shells, tanks, airplanes and so on and so forth in 1941?

Specify by what date?

Quote: savage1976

Or was everyone there with PPSh,

No, they appeared by the end of 1941, and so many were armed with PPD, SVT, Mosin rifles and carbines

Quote: savage1976

on the T-34

About six thousand were on them, and the rest, and this is under a hundred thousand on KV, T-26, T-28, T-35, T-50, BT-2, BT-5, BT-7

Quote: savage1976

with IL-2

249 people, the rest of the crews of our assault aviation for 178 units I-15, I-15bis, R-5SSS and DI-6

Quote: savage1976

And at the same time, Joseph Vissarionovich for 10 years prepared the country for war, developed heavy industry

And it gave its results in that war

[savage1976]

Of course it did "According to the report of the 33rd Army headquarters to the headquarters of the Reserve (front about the combat and numerical strength of army units - six divisions of the people's militia, sent not earlier than September 20, 1941 (dating according to the text). There were 34 721 rifles instead of the 28 952 set, heavy machine guns 714 instead of the prescribed 612. But there was a shortage of the following types of weapons: there were 7 796 automatic rifles, and 21 495 were required by the staff, 869 light machine guns, instead of the required 956, Degtyarev's submachine guns, there were 784, instead of the 928 required. There were six divisions only 2 anti-aircraft machine guns instead of the required 102 and 7 heavy machine guns instead of 51 ”.
and the actions of the tsarist government in the period from 1914 to 1917 gave their results, the factories for the production of rifles, machine guns, cannons, shells built by them were enough for both the Civil War and the intervention. And the war ended a year later with the victory of the side on which Russia was, only Russia did not receive the fruits of victory, because someone made peace with the return of vast territories.

[svp67]

Quote: savage1976

divisions of the people's militia,

I will reveal to you a GREAT SECRET. The divisions of the People's Militia were never included in any mobilization plans for recruiting the Red Army and, in general, in the Red Army system, they were PARTY structures. They were called not through the Military Commissariats, but through the district and regional party committees. As soon as they were sent to the Red Army, they were immediately renamed and rearmed with standard weapons.

[Konnick]

"According to the report of the 33 Army headquarters to the Reserve (front) headquarters about the combat and numerical strength of army units - six divisions of the people's militia, sent not earlier than September 20, 1941 (dating according to the text). There were 34 721 rifles instead of the prescribed 28 952, 714 heavy machine guns instead of put 612. But there was a shortage of the following types of weapons: there were 7 automatic rifles, and the staff required 796, there were 21 light machine guns, instead of the required 495, Degtyarev's submachine guns, there were 869, instead of the prescribed 956. There were only 784 for six divisions. anti-aircraft machine guns instead of the required 928 and 2 heavy machine guns instead of 102 ".

These Divisions of the People's Militia, and without normal weapons, managed to fight at Vyazma better than the divisions of the 16th and 19th armies, which surrendered. Many divisions left the encirclement, with heavy losses, but they did not surrender.

It's not about weapons ... it's about the fact that the fighters were reliable and motivated. The people were ready for war, the army may not be quite.

1-I division of the national militia (Leninsky district). Broken under Vyazma. Headquarters and rear units left the encirclement.
2-I division of the national militia (Stalin district). Completely perished under Vyazma.
4 Division I BUT (Kuibyshev district). Successfully came out of the boiler at Vyazma, but during the battles at Naro-Fominsk she lost 60% of personnel a week before. Subsequently became 84 CD.
5th Division NO (Frunzensky District). Completely perished in the area of ​​Spas-Demyansk.
6th Division NO (Dzerzhinsky District). She died completely surrounded by Vyazma.
7-division BUT (Bauman district). Almost completely crushed. The few entourage joined the 144 CD.
8-division BUT (Krasnopresnensky district). Completely perished in a cauldron near Vyazma.
9 Division I BUT (Kirovsky district). Almost completely perished in the environment. It turned out about 800 fighters.
13 Division I BUT (Rostokinsky district). Completely perished in the environment.
17-division BUT (Moskvoretsky district). Lost in the boiler to 80% personnel.
18-division BUT (Leningrad region). Subsequently became 11 Guards Rifle Division.
21st Division NO (Kievsky district). Subsequently, it became the 77th Guards Rifle Division. The division includes 68 Heroes of the Soviet Union and the only battalion of Glory in the Red and Soviet Army.
All the soldiers and officers of this battalion were awarded the Order of Glory for their personal exploits.

[svp67]

Quote: Konnick

These Divisions of the People's Militia, and without normal weapons, managed to fight at Vyazma better than the divisions of the 16th and 19th armies, which surrendered. Many divisions left the encirclement, with heavy losses, but they did not surrender.

But your words do not correspond to the facts. Of the 12 DNOs, you indicated 9 were defeated, and only 3 were able to get out of the encirclement
Of the four divisions of the 16th army: 38th, 108th, 112th, 214th rifle divisions
The 108th Rifle Division was able to get out of the encirclement, the rest, although they were defeated, were then restored, which means that their Battle Banners were saved
Of the five divisions of the 19 army: 50th, 89th, 91st, 166th and 244th rifle divisions
The 50th Strelkov Division came out of the encirclement.
The rest were defeated, the 89th, 91st and 244th SD were not restored, the 166th was restored.
Of the 244 SD fighters who remained surrounded, a partisan detachment was created. Alexander Nevsky (commander V.I.Popov, the detachment consisted of soldiers of the 907th Infantry Regiment of the 244th Division of the 19th Army)

[Konnick]

But your words don't match the facts

Partially yes, the DNOs deployed in the directions of the main attacks, along the Varshavskoye and Minskoye highways, were defeated, but some fighters and commanders left the encirclement without retaining the banners, i.e. the divisions were formally killed. For example, the 8th DNO from near Yelnya, where E. Kazakevich, the author of the story "Zvezda", fought in the writers' company, some units of this division left the encirclement and even took part in the battles on the Borodino field. The 2nd DNO almost all perished during the breakthrough near the village of Bogoroditskoye. The surviving militias were surprised to find that the armies of the Reserve Front had chosen to surrender, rather than go out through the passage, made with such heavy losses. There were a lot of strange things in the behavior of General Lukin.

[svp67]

Quote: Konnick

There were a lot of strange things in the behavior of General Lukin.

Which, after returning to the USSR from captivity until December 1945, was checked by the NKVD, according to the results of which he was reinstated in the ranks of the Red Army. On Lukin's personal file, which Stalin received from Abakumov, the leader imposed a resolution: “A devoted person, restore the rank, if he wishes - to send to study, not to infringe on the service ”.
So Comrade Stalin disagrees with you

[Konnick]

So Comrade Stalin disagrees with you

Forgave the disabled person, and maybe Abbakumov did not report everything about his statements in captivity. While in captivity, Lukin conveyed, on behalf of the generals who were sitting with him, a proposal to create a counter-government that would fight the Bolsheviks.
"The people will face an unusual situation: the Russians have taken the side of the so-called enemy, which means that it is not treason to the Motherland, but only a departure from the system ..." turned out to be "unexpectedly" the directions of the main attack of the Germans. And he drove his troops into the forests, with which he surrendered, leaving the command, but managed to send the same DNO to break out of the boiler. Well, not in the forests, the Germans poke around on tanks.

[svp67]

Quote: Konnick

Forgiven a disabled person

Not the case

Quote: Konnick

Abbakumov did not report everything

Do you believe it yourself?

Quote: Konnick

While in captivity, Lukin conveyed on behalf of the generals,

That is, not even myself, but a group ... I don't believe it. And for lesser sins, the generals who returned from captivity were sent to camps or to the scaffold

Quote: Konnick

It was Lukin who put the DNO on the most dangerous directions, on the main roads, which "unexpectedly" turned out to be the directions of the main attack of the Germans.

The commander of the 19th Army of the Western Front, could not give orders to the divisions of the Reserve Front. This is yours or someone's fantasy

[savage1976]

Nobody argues about the exploits of the people's militia. It was about the lack of weapons, ammunition, mat. Funds in wartime and no more. In any war and in any old system, there will be a shortage of everything, from needles to spaceships, and to paint on the inferiority of one system, turning a blind eye to the same facts in a different system, the wrong approach.

[Dmitry from Voronezh]

I cannot yet verify the figures you have given. I will assume that they are close to the truth. But even so, the most important thing is the result - by the beginning of 1917 the war was not lost. So we fought with what it was and fought well at the same time.

[mz]

According

Quote: Dmitry from Voronezh

For the production of rifles in Russia in 1914-1916. bypassed England, France, Italy, slightly yielding to Germany and Austria-Hungary. At the beginning of 1917, there were about 17 thousand machine guns in the Russian army against 16 thousand German machine guns on the Eastern Front.

For WWI Russia produced 28 thousand machine guns, Germany - 280 thousand machine guns, France approx. 300 thousand machine guns. Rifles for the RI army had to be bought all over the world: in the USA, Japan, in South America. Let's add constant shell and cartridge hunger. RI was unable to provide itself with weapons.

[tatra]

And where are the facts in the article to prove your words

By the end of its history, the Russian Empire was clearly in better economic shape than the Soviet Union.

?

[faiver]

All this is very beautiful ..., at first glance, BUT the author forgot how to tell where the money Zin came from? Due to what the Trans-Siberian and the CER was built, due to which the industry was built, etc. etc. And everything is simple, due to foreign loans (hello to France and Witte), foreign capital and the "gold standard". The state debt of Ingushetia alone before the First World War amounted to more than nine billion rubles, backed by gold, which, by the way, was almost 2,5 of the state budget of Ingushetia at that time. But that's not all, there were also debts of private capital, foreign shares in our enterprises, and completely foreign enterprises. Moreover, there was almost no high-tech production, not a single aircraft engine was produced in the country, airplanes were made, but all engines were imported. And so it was all around, and the gold from the country flowed like a full-flowing river. Well, since politics is a continuation of the economy, Nikolai II received what he received ...

[Dmitry from Voronezh]

In 1913, the state debt of Russia amounted to 8858 million rubles. Whereas in France it is 12209, in Germany it is 9491, in England it is 6727, in Austria it is 6953, in Italy it is 5259. We had nothing supernatural.
I already wrote about the share and role of foreign capital in one of the comments. Its share ranged from 11 to 15%. Also nothing supernatural.

[faiver]

We had nothing supernatural.

- again? And what about the production level? Above, using the example of at least the production of machine guns, they showed more than tenfold difference over Germany and France, and this was already during the war years, when the level of production in Ingushetia increased ...

[Dmitry from Voronezh]

It is not the level of production that needs to be compared, but the size of economies and the level of national income. With this approach, it is obvious that military debts would not become an unsolvable problem for Russia.

[faiver]

war debts would not

- they wouldn't, but it WOULD be in the way ... especially remembering the amount of the domestic national debt by 1917 ...

[samarin1969]

Thanks to the author for a selection of facts with graphs. In general, this information is controversial only for those who hang know history by labels and slogans. Well, a big "hello" to everyone who likes to adjust history to fit the "theory" about "decay" and "crises".
Even from Soviet and modern textbooks it is known: that at the beginning of the century, education costs increased 5 times, primary education became available to everyone, Putilovsky was one of the three largest factories in Europe, in the 90s industry doubled, in terms of the growth rate of industry and railway construction, the Empire was the world leader, in the export of grain and oil - No. 1 in the world, in culture and science, Russia was an authority, etc., etc. ... Only for believers in "revelation from Marx" this is something controversial.
There were also "disadvantages" that were natural for a growing economy: there is little medium-sized business (as now), dependence on foreign technologies and capital (as now), problems of the farm economy (as now: farmers are being strangled by the state and bogeymen) ...

[Illanatol]

Industry in Ingushetia was growing, but it was not Russian industry. The largest enterprises and banks are in the hands of foreigners.
Primary education - when, at the very least, you can write your name and the Psalter is partly learned by heart. Very useful for practical needs. Even the army did not have enough educated people, even the malevolent Bolsheviks had to be recruited into the service. It is not easy to train worthy personnel for the navy and artillery from "hay and straw".
Percentage growth is impressive, but our interest rates were too light.
Yes, they sold grain and oil, and with the proceeds they bought weapons ... calculate for yourself how much of this oil you had to sell to pay, at least, for the construction of our famous cruisers Aurora and Varyag.
The most impressive industrial growth has yet been in Japan. In the middle of the 19th century, it was quite a feudal country with junks, and in 1905-1907, the mighty Russian Empire, yesterday's samurai feudal lords pressed on the cabbage soup.

He smiled about the farm. Most of the commercial agricultural products, both then and now, are produced by large "latifundia": then - large landowners' farms, now - numerous CJSCs, LLCs and other joint-stock companies - the successors of yesterday's collective and state farms.

[Dmitry from Voronezh]

The landowners could not produce most of the marketable products for the reason that by 1914 they accounted for about 10% of the arable land. They physically could not produce this amount. As for foreign participation, I don't see a problem here: China has successfully risen on foreign investment. And we could ... I also do not see anything wrong with making money on the export of agricultural products. It is better than driving abroad oil, gas, unprocessed timber. At the beginning of the century, we already had our own well-established sales markets and agricultural exports gave the country a huge income. USSR in 1920-1930 also earned decent money on grain. So, I don't see a problem here.

[Illanatol]

The landowners could not produce most of the marketable products for the reason that by 1914 they accounted for about 10% of the arable land.

They could and did.
1. The landowners owned the best and most fertile lands.
2. Domestic consumption of such farms was very small. Almost all the product produced could be sold, the landlord himself needs a little. In contrast to the peasants, who consumed themselves, and not always had enough.
3. Landowners could and did use advanced technologies and techniques. Does the name "Michurin" tell you something? Before the revolution Michurin was a landowner. And he was not the only one who was so educated and advanced.

As for foreign participation, I don't see a problem here: China has successfully risen on foreign investment.

But I see. You know that in the PRC there is no and there was no private ownership of land. Foreigners do not own a single square meter of Chinese land - they are only tenants. The Chinese can always "ask" them, and eventually they will.
However, not all was well in the history of China either. A century ago, China also had its own NEP. All went well until the Great Depression began. At that time, there was no Stalin of their own in China, foreigners quickly withdrew their capital, the economy collapsed, the Chinese army never received its tanks and aircraft. The Japanese immediately took advantage of this and China paid tens of millions of lives for its miscalculations.

I also do not see anything wrong with making money on the export of agricultural products.

There is no shame, but there is little benefit. If you want to have a good profit in foreign trade, export goods with a high share of added value (sell qualified labor).

[Dmitry from Voronezh]

I will not argue about the landowners' farms: we need to study the issue.

The Chinese can always "ask" them, and eventually they will.

And I disagree with this: China is quite a capitalist country in its own way, true, but these are particulars. They value their business reputation and do not miss out on benefits. Over the past 10 years, annual foreign investment in the Chinese economy has been consistently more than $ 100 billion. Who would refuse such a piece? In addition, the PRC is a very definite part of the world economy; they are strongly integrated into it and will not take any drastic steps that could harm their business. So they don’t need anyone to "ask for an exit" - there are all their own: both Chinese companies and American ones - capital has no borders and uniform laws around the world are laws of profit.
As for the export of agricultural products, see for yourself: the United States earns about $ 150 billion a year on this, the Netherlands - about $ 100, Brazil and Germany - about $ 85. And we have the entire volume of exports for 2020 - about $ 330 billion. The Little Netherlands on food exports earn almost a third of our total exports. Food will always be in price - the planet's population is growing, more food is needed. And at the beginning of the twentieth century, we earned a lot of money on food, had our own established sales markets, and by the end of the twentieth century we became importers of food products. Well, it’s obvious that agriculture in the twentieth century was unreasonable.

[Illanatol]

China is quite a capitalist country in its own way, it is true, but these are particulars.

No. There are capitalists in the PRC, but there is no capitalism and, most likely, there will not be.
It is not enough for capitalism to have a market economy. It is necessary for the capitalists to become the dominant political force, it is necessary that they take power in the country (by the hands of their protégés) and that the country's policy, both internal and external, should be subordinated to the interests of capital, primarily large capital.
By the way, this is why the Russian Empire was not a full-fledged capitalist country until February 1917. And after February it broke up even before the Bolsheviks took power. Capitalism in its full form did not suit us then and does not suit us now.

In the PRC, political and state power does not belong to big capital. It belongs to those for whom the highest priority is the well-being and development in the interests of the whole society, and not a separate narrow group of the elite.
At the same time, the local entrepreneurs agree with this state of affairs. They do not oppose the CCP, but support such a policy, even when they join the party itself. They don't try
take power into their own hands, they understand that such a triumph of capitalism in the PRC cannot exist even for a short time.

So these are not "particulars" at all.
In addition, the PRC is already changing the trajectory of its development. Domestic consumption has already exceeded exports, and the standard of living is actually rising. From a development model focused on foreign markets, China is moving to a model based on the domestic market. From globalism to regionalization. The "Great Silk Road" project is intended to outline the regions that have the highest priority for the economy of the Celestial Empire, the rest of the countries are already less interesting.
Considering that the fall in world trade and consumption will have a long-term trend, it is quite reasonable.

[Dmitry from Voronezh]

You, as you can see, have studied a lot and China and what is happening there, so I will not argue with your definitions. I did not delve into the affairs of the PRC. I agree with you that the ruling class in the PRC is nationally oriented. And this is, in fact, half the success for the development of any country. After all, it is the ruling class that decides how the funds earned by the country, including those attracted in the form of investments, will be distributed.
But as for the PRC's reliance on the external or internal market, here you need to study the numbers. China's trade surplus in 2020 is $ 535 billion. It's just an astronomical amount, ten times more than ours! And this is essentially money flowed from the world economy to the domestic market of China. So the domestic market of the PRC is not a "thing in itself", it is actively replenished by the world economy, and without this stagnation awaits it.

[Illanatol]

China's trade surplus in 2020 is $ 535 billion. It's just an astronomical amount, ten times more than ours! And this is essentially money flowed from the world economy to the domestic market of China.

Is not a fact. The PRC can invest this money in foreign assets, using them not only to achieve economic, but also geopolitical goals (buying vassals for itself), to replenish gold reserves, to buy foreign securities, in particular American bonds. The United States owes China trillions of dollars, and the PRC can use this as a potential way of putting pressure on the US government.
There will be no stagnation with an increase in effective demand. The analogy with the USSR will not work, the share of industries oriented to final consumption by individuals in the Chinese economy is much larger.

[populist]

Quote: Dmitry from Voronezh

I did not delve into the affairs of the PRC.

This was evident from your comparison of investments in the Republic of Ingushetia and in the PRC.
If there is anything interesting in the world that should be studied, it is the development of China. China now has the most advanced socio-economic formation. This is not socialism or capitalism. Academician Glazyev calls such a system integral.
The weekly newspaper Zavtra regularly publishes interesting articles on various aspects of Chinese reality and experience. The web version comes out on Thursdays.

[savage1976]

You forgot to add, dependence in foreign technologies, as in the 30s, when cars and tractor plants were built according to American technologies, according to Spanish aircraft factories, and in the 1960s and 1970s, automobile plants were built using Italian technologies, and in the 1970s according to American automobile plants. And where did communism go with the advanced scientific industry?

[faiver]

Russia has always lagged behind the West technologically, and the USSR, due to heredity, too ...

[Vadim237]

In the civilian sector in the USSR, there was never an advanced scientific industry and production - it for the most part has always been catching up with a similar western one.

[Kronos]

Believers have nothing to do with the author just manipulating statistics.

[samarin1969]

Quote: Kronos

Believers have nothing to do with the author just manipulating statistics.

Almost all commentators are doing the same. Political passion pushes many to extreme judgments. Only "pane Kohanka" tries to be objective.

[Dmitry from Voronezh]

Thank you for your detailed comment. I have never denied and will not deny the problems that were in the Russian Empire. But historical experience shows that the path chosen by the people to solve them turned out to be a dead end and led us to the decline of the XNUMXst century. Historical justice requires a more objective assessment of the development and prospects of Russia in the late nineteenth and early twentieth centuries than the one that exists in society today.

[Fanur Galiev]

I looked through this article and drew attention to one point. Namely the sources. In the whole article there are exactly two of them (if you have looked through something, forgive me for that). For interest, I decided to look for what these sources are. Looked at the names of the authors, their publications. I was impressed. Dear author, the Russian Empire will, of course, be the strongest, richer and stronger, if you rely on such authors. Exactly how rotten, terrible, shameful and misanthropic country the USSR was, if authors such as Svanidze and Solzhenitsyn are used as a source for an article on the Union. Or how helpless the Red Army was, if you compose articles about this, relying on the "works" of a former KGB officer Rezun. This, dear author, is not an objective article that uses an extensive source base of authors of various profiles. This, as already mentioned in the comments, is pulling an owl onto a globe. Namely, fitting the facts to the desired result. And to do this, you just need to take convenient facts from convenient sources. Fabulous!

[faiver]

former KGB officer Rezun

- sorry, I'll correct it a little, he never served in the KGB, the GRU, army intelligence ...

[Fanur Galiev]

Thank you for the amendment!

[UA3QHP]

Or how helpless the Red Army was

And he never wrote about the helplessness of the Red Army.

[alexandr_vd]

The dishonesty of the author of the article is obvious and does not coincide with the actual historical events that took place!

[Dmitry from Voronezh]

I took facts from several sources. But I can also say that there are a number of other sources that confirm the conclusions made in the article. If the sources that I know are at least 80% correct, and I think not less, then my position and my confidence that the Russian Empire could develop successfully without revolutions is unshakable.

[Kronos]

Aha "facts" about the advanced science of the Russian Empire, where the vocabulary of engineering is 90% German-speaking due to the backwardness of the Russian Empire and the need to accept the field of knowledge already created by others and its conceptual apparatus entirely.

[Vadim237]

And what kind of engineering vocabulary was created in the USSR, or maybe the Western experience was not accepted there, they created everything without copying anything?

[Ryaruav]

Is Russia Rich in 1913? Yes, she was in debt like in silk, the money belonged to Western firms and was exported abroad

[Dmitry from Voronezh]

The facts suggest otherwise.

[Andybuts]

what are the facts?

[Sergei Chernavsky]

I have long been convinced that modern communists have become religious fanatics who believe in Marxism as a god ... And the comments under this article are a real confirmation of this.

[Vadim237]

“According to the works of the founders of Marxism, communism presupposes the presence of highly developed productive forces, the absence of the state, money, without dividing society into social classes.

[tatra]

No more utopia than you, enemies of the communists, are democracy, freedom of speech, human rights, liberalism. You have never had any of this and never will.

[Vadim237]

I have already answered your shizu about the enemies of the communists. And the above stated by me is a pure fact, since this is not a description of human life and human society, but rather a system of existence of robots with one control system for all - neither the state nor money are all equal in everything there are no social classes.

[Vadim237]

Immediately you can see zero counter arguments - all that is enough for convolutions is the minuses to put this is the whole answer.

[tatra]

Ha, on the contrary, this is yours, the enemies of the communists, anti-Sovietism / anti-communism is an analogue of religion, you stupidly, thoughtlessly, believe in what you WANT to believe, and under this belief your anti-Soviet-Russophobic puppeteers inspire you with what they want, including the myth of wonderful Russia before the communists, which "fed the whole world" and "rushed ahead of the rest of the planet", inspired you to praise STRICTLY the last Russian monarch, to arrange "Ecumenical lamentation" over the murdered Nicholas II - of all the killed ruling Romanovs.
The enemies of the communists have such low intelligence that they do not even realize that they are being manipulated.

[alexandr_vd]

Indeed, if everything developed so well, people got rich, formed, roads were built, industry developed ... And where did the REVOLUTION come from then ??? And at the same time, practically at the EXIT of the war, when a turning point has already taken place in it ???
The author is clearly LUCAVIT ... And biasedly operates with numbers.

[faiver]

you forget that the tsar was overthrown not by the Bolsheviks, but by the traders and the bourgeoisie, which Nicholas II himself put into power in 1905 through the created State Duma, but the appetite comes like a grill with eating, I personally think that
behind the February revolution and the overthrow of the tsar are the British ... nothing personal - just business ...

[ivan2022]

Quote: alexandr_vd

The author is clearly LUKAVIT ..

The author found "new facts" more than a hundred years later ..... This in itself is already nonsense! Whether he found them in the excavations of antiquities or in the super-duper archives of the NKVD ...... Those who lived then wrote about this period best of all. Not hired PR people.
Lenin in 1900 wrote the book "The Development of Capitalism in Russia", where there are an order of magnitude more facts than the author's (and analysis of facts at a level generally not accessible to the author!) And showed that there is capitalism in Russia and is developing despite the dominance of the nobility in the government. In 1917 he wrote the work "Impending Catastrophe" with a forecast of the collapse of the entire economy in the coming months and a call for urgent reforms ... But who will read it now and who will be given the task to write about it? The public's brains are literally turned inside out.

[Vadim237]

The revolution was not muddied by the people themselves - its conspirators muddied it without their actions, or nothing would have happened, the main thing is to form a crowd with which these conspirators did an excellent job and sent the Bolsheviks to the right gate without the first revolution, hell would come to power.

[Dmitry from Voronezh]

Individual facts can be disputed, but when there are a lot of such facts, there is nothing to argue about. In my opinion, two articles contain enough facts to draw a simple conclusion: the revolutions of 1917 were not necessary for the development of the country. If it is not enough, more facts can be cited.

[Undecim]

In my opinion, there are enough facts in two articles to draw a simple conclusion:

... that the author stretches ornithology over geography.

[3x3zsave]

I'll correct a little: ornithology on planetology. And in general, the term has already been worn ... Maybe it is worth moving on to smaller objects? For example, a lemming to an asteroid? ...

[Undecim]

If we change - I like it - a hamster for a yellow dwarf.

[Vadim237]

No, you just cling to words. And the author of the rights from these revolutions of 1917, the country basically only lost the territory of tens of millions of people in subsequent events, and moving to a planned distribution economy where the state plan decides everything with the absence of competition and individual entrepreneurship, they simply threw themselves out of the world technological leaders for the same civilian products by this west in the 80s we got Western consumer goods with their hands torn off and were ready to tear them off - here is the chewing gum with jeans.

[Undecim]

It would be nice for you to master grammar for a start. And then about the global ...

[Vadim237]

When a person has nothing to answer, his last counterargument is to dig into grammar - a consequence of stupidity.

[Undecim]

consequence of stupidity

You are absolutely right - an illiterate presentation of thoughts is a consequence of stupidity.

[Saxahorse]

In terms of the absolute standard of living of the people, the USSR caught up with Tsarist Russia only by the beginning of the 1960s, having lost half a century, and in terms of relative, in comparison with other most developed countries, it never caught up with the Russian Empire.

Here's a liar .. It's a pity there is no option to put a minus to the article as a whole.

[Vadim237]

And what's wrong - even remember the same Yuri Gagarin and what he was given for the first flight - since the family was very poor, this is the first cosmonaut in the USSR and in the world here is your standard of living.

[Maxim G]

Whole LJs are dedicated to Bulkokhrust ...
https://polit-ec.livejournal.com/15907.html

[lodochnik2000]

we just don't count 90 percent of the population - and that's how it is.

[Nik Petrov]

At the beginning of the 20th century, Russia was already an industrialized country and continued to develop rapidly. Here, many write about cast iron per capita, comparing it with the USSR's indicators. But in the USSR, the metal was lying in all the forests, fields and dumps. And the metal indicator in the Russian Empire during the First World War was commissioned 7 (seven) battleships (the USSR was never able to build a single one, but used until 1956. Railways - almost all were built before the communists. One of my opponents was surprised that both Murmansk and Vladivostok were built in darkness and illiteracy - but this is so. Even more - the main sources of income for the USSR - the export of round timber and crude oil in the Russian Empire were FORBIDDEN. Here they write about landowners - and where were they found in 1917? Have you read anything from the USSR?

[Kronos]

Russia remained an agrarian country, where 85% of the population lived in villages, therefore it could not be an industrially developed country, a country where literate, as in the Middle Ages, were considered those who could read and write their name, where there was still no general education.

[ivan2022]

Quote: Nik Petrov

They write about the landowners - but where were they found in 1917?

... By 1905, 50 of the largest landowners-landowners had more than 155 thousand acres of land each; in total, they owned 16,1 million dessiatines of land (in total, in Russia, 30 thousand landlord families owned 70 million dessiatines of land). After the October Revolution of 1917, on the basis of the Decree on Land, all landowners' lands were nationalized.
------------------
The landowners were highly productive and produced by the beginning of WWI more than 40% of Russian grain. Actually, I'm already used to adult "dear Russians" with their children's judgments, but there are more and more of them .......

[Illanatol]

But in the USSR, metal was scattered throughout the forests, fields and dumps. And the metal indicator in the Russian Empire during the First World War was commissioned 7 (seven) battleships (the USSR was never able to build a single one, but used until 1956. Railways - almost all were built before the communists. One of my opponents was surprised that both Murmansk and Vladivostok were built in darkness and illiteracy - but this is so. Even more - the main sources of income for the USSR - the export of round timber and crude oil in the Russian Empire were FORBIDDEN.

In the USSR, metal, first of all, went to the creation of infrastructure, to housing (construction fittings, yeah). Power grids, water supply, sewerage - all metal. What percentage of the population in Ingushetia had real access to these benefits of civilization, and what percentage in the USSR? Even taking into account the colossal losses of the housing stock in the Second World War.
About the railways - just nonsense.
And how many new cities appeared in our country after 1917, in the course?
In Siberia, for example.
Yeah, it was forbidden to export oil. Who really controlled oil production in Ingushetia?
For example, the Nobel brothers. They cut down the dough - and "goodbye, unwashed Russia."
Until now, bonuses are given out from the money (with interest on them) that they brought out of Russia.
Hydrocarbons have never been the main income for the USSR, even in exports their share did not exceed 30% (and even less in terms of net profit).

[Radical]

Quote: Dart2027

Quote: Kronos

artificially from abroad the revolution cannot be inflated for it there are always objective prerequisites.

In any country you can find a certain number of dissatisfied people, and not always objectively, who will happily destroy their country without thinking about the consequences.

How in the 1991th?

[Vadim237]

In 1991, everything was already over with the country with the Soviet system of government and power, and as a fact of the collapse of the country, no one opposed either the army or the special services or the population.

[Dart2027]

Quote: Radikal

How in the 1991th?

Of course. Perestroika was needed, but it was perestroika, and not what we had. Now, by the way, the same people are trying to buzz.

February 1917. The crowd shouts:
- Sva-a-a-a-abodu-oo-oo!
As a result, the tsar was overthrown, the Russian Empire collapsed, the Bolsheviks came to power, most of that crowd was dumped into exile, saying:
- Eh, Russia was lost ...
August 1991. The crowd shouts:
- Sva-a-a-a-abodu-oo-oo!
As a result, communism was overthrown, the USSR collapsed, democrats come to power, most of that crowd is dumped into exile, saying:
- Eh, Russia was lost ...
year 2012. The crowd shouts:
- Sva-a-a-a-abodu-oo-oo!
Can they immediately dump into emigration, without an intermediate collapse of the country?

A joke, of course, but with meaning.

[Vadim237]

"The Bolsheviks came to power, most of that crowd are dumped into emigration, sentencing" - Ultimately 90% of the representatives of this crowd ended their days in events such as the civil war Kronstadt 1921 when the Bolsheviks overwhelmed their own sailors declaring them traitors dekulakization famine resettlement of peoples repression Finnish war of the Second World War - hello to famine in the same Leningrad camp after the war.

[Dart2027]

Quote: Vadim237

Ultimately 90% of this crowd ended their days in events such as the civil war.

Not really. The anecdote refers to all kinds of intellectuals, liberals, etc. public.
And those about whom you write were later.

[Alexey Lantukh]

Anyway, thanks to the author of the article. Thanks for the discussion. And now I will add about the availability of weapons in the 2nd war. Purely quantitatively, at the beginning of the war, it was quite enough. But, by the end of 41, there was no longer enough, since a huge amount was lost during defeats and encirclements.

[ivan2022]

Quote: Alexey Lantukh

And now I will add about the availability of weapons in the 2nd war. .... Purely quantitatively, at the beginning of the war it was quite enough. But, by the end of 41, there was no longer enough, since a huge amount was lost during defeats and encirclements.

Yah ! But how, then, did you manage to win this very war without weapons?
I must note that the level of your generalizations is so high that I suppose it is not lower than the Chief of the General Staff of the RF Armed Forces.

[faiver]

Yah ! But how, then, did you manage to win this very war without weapons?

- i.e. weapons at the end of 41st was enough? And tanks with planes were not distributed almost by the piece? And the troops of Rokossovsky did not use the six-inch cannon of 1877 as a PTO? And the photographs of the Red Army men with British luces at the parade on November 7, 41st is this a brazen photomontage of the imperialists?

[Illanatol]

There was a period when there was not enough weapons. But the situation was corrected.

[Alexey RU64]

Unfortunately, most people will push back and crunch a French bun. For 70 years, plus the post-Soviet years, everyone has been hammered in that revolution is very good and there were prerequisites. Well, there were and what now to destroy the country, to organize a civil war? There were moderate parties, but the radicals took power. And they were helped a lot. Indeed, in July, the attempt to take power by the Bolsheviks failed, and then, everything worked out. not otherwise, as the same people in three months suddenly understood how to do it right. It's sarcasm. This is simply impossible. I respect the article, there is also the writer Brazol, he points to this in even more detail.

[Radical]

Quote: Dmitry from Voronezh

Generally nonsense, from 1913 to 1917 the length of railways in Ingushetia increased by 2,5 kilometers.

Doesn't stand up to any criticism. Modern historians give other figures...

And what kind of “modern” historians are these, for example? Chubais's older brother and others like him?

[Yaroslav Zhigulin]

There was 1 locomotive, now 3 has grown 3 times... Everything you need to know about the growth of RI

[Vadim237]

At least it was real there; they sold the product; they received money; it’s not like in the USSR; hundreds and thousands of passenger planes were produced according to plan; 7 were sold for money; the rest were launched for thanks as support and unequal barter to dozens of countries around the world, and that’s what it’s called in everything - Soviet economy.

[Maximilian37]

I was surprised to learn that there was Rosstat in the Russian Empire! Where does this “reliable” data come from? probably from the USSR State Statistics Committee.)))

[motor13]

The portal is becoming more and more like the newspaper SpeedInfo. Articles on economics are written by people who do not have an economic education. On armored personnel carriers, who have never seen the car with its advantages and disadvantages. This is the bottom, gentlemen!
Based on the facts. The author wrote about glass smelting. The question is: when was the first thermometer made in the Republic of Ingushetia? The answer is in 1917. Let's move on to glass. What about optics? The answer is nothing. All optics were bought in France or Germany. How This is undignified for an advanced country.
Railways. In the Republic of Ingushetia, the cars were single-axle. The Union switched to a four-axle system, which made it possible to double the carrying capacity. What would happen if a more powerful car was placed on the old rails? In fact, the USSR had to re-create the railway network. The rails, embankments all had to be created anew.
Further. Any political economy textbook says that the Republic of Ingushetia imported capital. What is this? The factory was built by the manufacturer Yuz or Nobel. Who does the profit go to? Yuz or Nobel - they are not philanthropists. The same textbook says that the largest debtor was the Republic of Ingushetia. Precisely for the French English and other loans, millions of Russian Vaneks died in the trenches. By the way, my neighbors lived nearby. They collected loans using their passports and walked every day. When the bank realized that there would be no cashback, the guys were moved from the Moscow region to the Yaroslavl region. And yes, they almost year showed income growth.
By the way. Knowing the habits of gentlemen, I am more than sure that if we had crawled even to the end of the war, we would have simply been abandoned. Examples? The Russian-Turkish War and the San Stefano Peace Treaty. Having defeated Turkey on the battlefield, we made a fool of ourselves.
Further. The Russo-Japanese War was miserably lost. Not a single one! victories. Probably Lenin and the Bolsheviks dictated the terms of capitulation on the radio to Stoessel. And Rozhdestvensky how to lead the squadron. And Kuropatkina retreated all the time. By the way, as a former military man, I think it is correct to compare the defense of Port Arthur and besieged Leningrad. Being surrounded by commanding heights, in the subtropical climate of Port Arthur surrendered. And Leningrad, being in a swampy lowland, survived frosts over 40.
Further. Having the main divisions on the western front, Germany all the time managed to knock the tsarist troops down. Samsonov’s Second Army, the Gorlitsky breakthrough, a positional impasse on the Stokhod River, a fruitless attack at Lake Naroch.
Further. When Hitler was informed that the Soviets were making more tanks than Germany, he called his generals liars. They really lied. We made twice as many tanks as we reported to the Fuhrer. Hungry children, women with zero qualifications bypassed the best (no exaggeration ) engineering school.
About plans. Did Tsarist Russia have them? Of course. Do it, improve it, achieve it. I apologize for the bad manners, but for some reason United Russia and its promises in the early 2000s come to mind. Everyone will receive their part of the national wealth, each family will have a separate apartment, uh, the promises are breathtaking. Now they promise to fight poverty. The coincidences are obvious.

[Grossvater]

Everything is wonderful, but at the time of the crash, the Republic of Ingushetia was a country with a completely disintegrated society and incompetent governance. Lack of high-tech production and illiterate population.
When the roast rooster pecked, there was not a single enterprise capable of producing machine guns. Only ITOZ, that's all!
And if we take the method of the author of the article, then, yes, everything is wonderful! The production of machine guns increased tenfold from 14 to 16. From 1180 to 11800 pieces per year.
Amazing! In 16 alone, Germany produced 11000, France 8000, England 5000. Per month! And so it is everywhere. As soon as foreign supplies were interrupted, all military shipbuilding stopped.
Wood for airplanes was imported from abroad!

[Vadim237]

Russia had much more resources to start producing and catch up and overtake everyone and win the war with Germany, but they got what they got, namely the collapse of the country, a civil war, an economic hole for 15 years and the road to a bright future in the form of Hitler coming to power in Germany and the bloodiest massacre in human history from 41 to 45.

[EvilLion]

There were no resources. What lies in the ground still needs to be retrieved.

[Ingvar K]

I can't help but agree with the author. I believe that, due to historical development, the Russian Empire should have turned into a constitutional monarchy like many Western countries after the victory over Germany. But no one has abolished the basic law of competition - a competitor must either be bought or ruined. Before the collapse of the USSR, all indicators in the economy were compared with 1913 - funny though. The key problem that killed the empire was the issue of land ownership; it was simply not possible for that government to solve it correctly.

[EvilLion]

I’m wondering, does the author himself understand that the Republic of Ingushetia is much larger in population than France and to reach parity with it in absolute terms means a catastrophic lag in per capita terms?

[EvilLion]

The industrialization of the Russian Empire would have continued in 1920-1930

To carry out industrialization, workers and universal education are needed, and in order for hands to appear, it is necessary to radically change agriculture, freeing people.

The revolution and the unintelligible agrarian policy that followed it turned profitable Russian agriculture, which brought huge profits to the country, into unprofitable Soviet agriculture, when already in 1928-1929 the Soviet Union was forced to import grain for the first time in history. And no amount of new tractors saved the situation, since the peasantry found itself in a completely powerless position and was in no way motivated to increase the efficiency of their labor.

The author, to put it mildly, is LYING.

Agriculture of the Russian Empire is a stage 4 cancer, it is stuck in the 18th century with no possibility of improvement. Stolypin, apparently, was stupider than the author, since he saw the problem, but the author does not understand it.

The peasants then lived in communities, for them this was the only way to survive if something happened; no capitalist farms could arise en masse in such conditions, because for this, 90% of the peasants would have to sell the land to the remaining 10% and either become farm laborers, either to cities where no one was waiting for them, or to die. If you carry out this process instantly according to history, then millions will die, because they simply will have nowhere to go, which the peasants themselves understood perfectly well, and they hated Stolypin, the first thing they did after Feb. roar In 1917, the Stolypin reform and private ownership of land were abolished. The process of transition to farms should have started after the War of 1812, in 100 years, you’d see that full-fledged farms would have arisen, but no one needed it. The key point is precisely that “no one needs it,” because the master extracted taxes from the serfs for a beautiful life, and he lived in the capital, and he did not have the time to delve into management. Well, he lived until 1917, and then he wondered why the peasants got up to speed.

Tractors, dear stupid author, are not given to abstract peasants, they are given to organizational structures within which the peasants will work. In the Republic of Ingushetia and in the early USSR, which received everything from the Republic of Ingushetia in the form in which it remained, such structures were simply absent for the most part, except for a few state farms based on the former latifundria. But you can’t give a tractor to an individual pisant; the area is too small and the pisant won’t be able to operate it. Initially, state farms were generally wanted as the basis of agriculture, but the state farm, as an agricultural enterprise with hired labor, requires the same refusal of the peasants from the land with their exit from the community and transition to the proletariat. This option would have been good in the 1970s, but not in the 1920s. And all collectivization was started precisely for this purpose, to enlarge individual farms without throwing millions of people out into the cold without land and any means of subsistence, since cities simply would not absorb such a mass of people.

As for lack of rights, under the Tsar-Father, peasants could simply be taken and flogged, and they were not accepted into any universities. This disenfranchised collective farmer could, with a certificate from the village council, go to the city and go to vocational school there, and then to a factory, or even make a more serious career. By the way, the peasants in the Republic of Ingushetia also did not have passports, firstly, they were all illiterate, so that they would have such paperwork as they have now, secondly, there were no such printing facilities, and a passport was a document for movement that was issued only if a person was traveling somewhere and could present something to local authorities in foreign lands.

Moreover, for any normal historian, these are well-known things.

[billy bones]

I registered specifically to write here. I applaud the author's efforts.
Dmitry, you have very intelligent articles about Russia at the beginning of the twentieth century.
You did a good job. It seemed to me that you were somewhat taken aback by the sharply negative reaction of the majority to your articles about the situation in Russia before 1917.
Don't let this bother you. And don’t let the boorish tone of some opponents upset you. Inadequate people are not worth serious discussion.
Russia of this period was understandably a target for Soviet academic historical scholarship. Today it is a target (like the USSR) for the current government. Because this is a real, and not a speculative, alternative to the current splendor.
That is, Russia in those years was under double fire.
And from this pile of one-sided information hammered and driven into people’s heads, it is difficult to build an objective picture.
Drawing analogies between the destruction of Tsarist Russia and the destruction of the USSR is not at all an easy task. We look at modern “color revolutions”. And in order to evaluate the work done by external enemies for this, it is necessary to use a wider range of sources than what is usually given in schools and universities. Although you can find it on the Internet.
It is difficult for people to imagine that a rapidly developing country can be destroyed by external enemies simply as a competitor, regardless of ideology.
Analogy: a criminal, as a rule, does not admit to a crime. It is more profitable for him to present the victim’s death as a result of the natural course of events. Or better yet, as a result of the actions of the victim herself. Like, it's my own fault. To lull the vigilance of other potential victims.
So, if 2-3 people out of 100 readers seriously think about your interpretation, that’s already good.
I took a quick look at your comments. Only one point still raises objections. I cannot agree that the USSR was destroyed by Gorbachev at the will of the ruling class. No, these were treacherous actions of the very top, and not the entire management apparatus of the 1985 model.
According to my impressions from personal meetings of those years, many in the party and Soviet apparatus at the level of the district and city committees, especially the older ones, understood how such “reforms” could end and did not support them in their hearts. But speaking openly from such positions would certainly lead to career ruin.
Therefore, these people were removed en masse or sent into retirement. That is, the fate of Romanov, Shcherbitsky, Grishin in 1985-1989 was shared by thousands of people with more modest positions in the party apparatus.
Otherwise, it would be difficult to destroy a powerful and still quite viable state.