Military Review

Features of the national energy transition

144

Photo by wikipedia.org


Farewell to oil, gas and coal


Just don't flatter yourself right away.

How many times have declarations sounded in Russia that it is time to get off the oil needle or - tired of being a raw material appendage of the West?

Do not count, especially since very odious personalities were especially different in this field. Starting with the likes of Grigory Yavlinsky, the founder of the now inspiring Yabloko. Or the unkindly remembered privatizer and deputy prime minister Anatoly Chubais, now exiled to hell even from Rusnano. Nobody gave the first 500 days for his "Program", but the second - he even managed to crank up the energy reform.

We will say more about it, but here - about the realities of our days.

Energy transition is on the agenda. Large-scale and irreversible, but clearly protracted, albeit consistent. Prime Minister Mikhail Mishustin has recently called for him, while President Vladimir Putin has been meaningfully silent so far.

The elections, as you can see, interfered, but something will have to be done. Who and when specifically, we'll figure it out later.

Now let's try to predict when and what to expect?

To begin with, let us recall the structure of the Russian energy sector, and also show how alternative energy is in a number of countries of the world, including Russia. In the form of a pair of not the most complicated charts.

Features of the national energy transition

The first is the Russian energy layout.


In the second place are a dozen countries that are more active than others in promoting alternative energy.

Alternative.net


As you can see, you really have to do something.

In Russia, it is obvious that there is nothing of the alternative so far, in fact, except for hydropower. The authors also consider nuclear energy as an alternative, but few agree with us, although we expect to substantiate our point of view soon.

It's better to do something early than late. Especially with regard to tariffs for electricity, and even for heating, and especially taking into account the current European prospects, for which, of course, as always, the Russians are to blame.

It was they, the Russians, who so hastily completed the construction of their second "Nord Stream" and are not letting gas through "Square Nenko" Ukraine.

As you know, the Russians themselves noticed the first jump in electricity prices too late, since after the same Chubais reform it was neatly smeared over the years, but now we have a kilowatt at least three times more expensive than in the early 2000s.

Again, we confirm this with the graph.


As you can see, since 2014, prices per kilowatt have almost doubled, and if you count from the reform, even more. Although we were promised quite the opposite - a drop in tariffs due to competition.

What the hell is the competition between the oligarchs, who "painted" RAO UES?

And this does not look very noticeable only against the background of a general rise in prices and at least a two-fold drop in the ruble exchange rate. In practice, we are dealing with a real energy oligarchy, and the energy tariff, coupled with exorbitant bank rates, works like a real brake on the economy.

Against this background, one can only wonder where the funds for alternative energy come from? Indeed, until 2024, state support measures are in place for the construction of generating facilities based on renewable energy sources.

By all indications, this is the very alternative that the prime minister mentioned. But the money was allocated for it, as they say, to the envy of enemies? And without taking into account nuclear energy, which, in fact, is the same alternative and also based on renewable sources, this is a matter of a very near future, as will be discussed in our next review.

Optimists and Realists


However, those who are currently implementing the corresponding program into practice are full of optimism and even say that the energy transition will happen even faster than they assume at the very top.

For example, Alexey Zhikharev, director of the Association for the Development of Renewable Energy, has no doubts about it.

He reinforces his conviction, referring to the fact that prices for green energy in a number of selected renewable energy generation projects turned out to be even lower than those for traditional generation. But after all, in the program itself, it was not about hundreds, but only tens of billions, and not dollars, but rubles?

In addition, investments in an energy alternative, by definition, require a return, and even with a guaranteed return. You will not particularly roam, although, of course, for the sake of the notorious "profitability", you can write off to zero the costs of recycling the same wind turbines or solar panels, since this is a matter of a very distant future.

But then, at least the amounts are impressive.

At first, as much as 2035 billion rubles were allocated for a similar program until 400, then the amount was cut to 350. We divide it by 10, if not 11, and we get 35 billion a year. Agree, some pathetic.

Especially if we consider, for example, that a single field of wind turbines with a size of 100-200 hectares (more in few places) costs about a billion. Think for yourself - each wind generator is at least 20 million, and with equal installation and infrastructure costs, you can't place more than fifty there.


As a result, the output, again, is miserable (sorry for repeating ourselves) kilowatts, megawatts, even gigawatts, which are many times cheaper at the state district power station, and even more so at nuclear power plants. At least they have managed so far.

This was not a reform, but a robbery


And yet there is some kind of return, but all this excitement itself, what is it? Tribute to fashion or fear about what we will leave behind?

It seems that both of them together, and even the factor of the presence at the top of the not very frostbitten or "wild", according to Mikhail Delyagin, after all works.

And, in the end, the Ministry of Energy, not without reason, expects that by that very 2035, at least 6,7 gigawatts of capacity on renewable energy sources will be commissioned in Russia.

First Deputy Prime Minister Andrei Belousov generally compared the energy transition with the industrial revolution, thank you for at least not with the GOELRO plan.

Nevertheless, power engineers, including "alternative workers", are simply obliged to thank the organizers of the recent reform of RAO UES for the promising (in terms of capacity renewal) energy tariff.

It seems that indeed, in a market economy, only an inflated tariff could have pushed the Russian energy industry onto the path of transformations in favor of an alternative. Yes, overpriced, and artificially, and even for the sake of separately elected new owners of energy capacities.

And it is not for nothing that one of the leading employees of the G.M.Krizhanovsky Energy Institute, Georgy Zarochentsev, when he was put on the table in the early 2000s to split RAO UES into dozens of wholesale and generating companies, immediately exclaimed:

"This is not reform, this is robbery!"


Photo: Press Service of the Management Company "Rusnano"

What efforts it took for the industry professionals to maintain at least a single network company in Russia is a topic for a separate study. Well, for the sake of developments in the field of renewable energy, one could do without outright robbery of fellow citizens. That, in the end, is in the treasury and reserve funds.

Who will go first


In principle, they were the first to go, and for a very long time - hydropower, nuclear scientists and developers of such original things as tidal stations or even those powered by volcanic exhaust. Among the current "green" newcomers in the forefront are clearly those who work with the wind.

In Europe, however, it went, albeit with a creak, and with smoke, and now with waste, which, as you can see, the descendants will have to clean up. In terms of composites, we are not lagging behind the West, in many respects we are even ahead, and we have much more free land, so we are ready to build.

In the near future, more precisely - for 2025–2027, it is planned to build up to four dozen wind generation facilities with a total capacity of 1,39 GW by the Wind Parks company, which was created by Rusnano and the Fortum company, which has at its disposal 4,7 GW of generated power from seven thermal stations.

In turn, specialists from Rosatom, one of the leaders in the production of composite materials, have long been involved in wind projects. The Novavind nuclear company plans to commission up to 0,5 GW.

Hydropower is literally on the heels of wind energy. So, in Kabardino-Balkaria, Chechnya and Dagestan, the go-ahead has already been given for the construction of three small hydroelectric power plants.


Sorry for repeating the picture, this is one of the small Russian hydroelectric power plants - Gizeldonskaya in North Ossetia

The manufacturers of solar batteries have lagged behind a bit, although the technologies there are no less advanced, and up to 0,8 GW of power capacity may be introduced in the near future. It's another matter that in Russia everything is not as good with the sun as with the wind, but you can find a place. It will be more difficult with the transfer of energy, which makes solar energy so expensive.

Nevertheless, a series of large projects in Dagestan, Kalmykia and the Astrakhan region, sometimes with a call to the Caspian Sea, are already being prepared for implementation. The timing is not yet clear, but it is most likely possible to count on the beginning of the 30s.
Author:
Photos used:
recyclemag.ru, businessviews.com, solarworks.ru
144 comments
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  1. Darkesstcat
    Darkesstcat 24 September 2021 15: 17
    +6
    An article about how everything is bad and should be blamed on green energy as soon as possible? I didn't understand.
    1. Sling cutter
      Sling cutter 24 September 2021 15: 26
      +2
      Quote: Darkesstcat
      I didn't understand.

      Have you read? laughing
      1. Darkesstcat
        Darkesstcat 24 September 2021 15: 30
        +14
        I read that everything was ruined, and then a sharp transition to the fact that there is no money for energy transition to green energy. Just did not understand how this is interconnected, if green electricity is always more expensive than traditional electricity?
        1. bar
          bar 24 September 2021 15: 39
          +6
          Quote: Darkesstcat
          and then a sharp transition to the fact that there is no money for energy transition to green energy

          Well, what else can the "economists" talk about besides money? Well, not about electricity ...

          Quote: Darkesstcat
          Just did not understand how this is interconnected, if green electricity is always more expensive than traditional electricity?

          And this is also about money. If it is more expensive, then you can cut more. Chubais did not go there in vain, this red fly is never wrong.
          1. Tatyana
            Tatyana 24 September 2021 15: 44
            +12
            As soon as Chubais's hand touches something in Russia, you should know that the country will face another "cut" "from above" of the state budget and state property of the Russian Federation, not to the benefit of Russia itself!
            It would be better that the name of Chubais did not even stand next to the state of the Russian Federation!
            1. Sling cutter
              Sling cutter 24 September 2021 15: 49
              +9
              Quote: Tatiana
              As soon as Chubais's hand touches something in Russia, you should know that the country will face another "cut" not to the benefit of Russia itself!

              A simple question, why did not the almighty, omnipotent president tore off Chubais's greedy crooked hands ?!
              1. The comment was deleted.
                1. Sling cutter
                  Sling cutter 24 September 2021 17: 22
                  +6
                  Quote: Tatiana
                  Probably because Chubais, the "market-oriented" little soro, has a serious "roof" in the USA itself!
                  And Russia in the sovereign sense is still weak.
                  For the FULL sovereignty of Russia, it essentially lacks FINANCIAL independence from the US Federal Reserve.

                  Here they are - friends of the United States, representatives of the financial and economic bloc of Russia and apologists who share the same views of the American course of "market restructuring" of the entire economy in Russia with the aim of its inclusive integration into the economy of the West, i.e. subjugation of Russia as a US colony.

                  Seriously? But what about the amendments? Again, what is missing?
                  So this is the bloody redhead's Gasdep put on Skolkovo?
                  Che, I don’t remember that someone would stand on ceremony with Ulyukayev, sitting like a cute one!
                  Tatyana, I have been hearing all this nonsense from Bori 55 for a long time and you can pull this rubber / carry nonsense for another 20-25 years, until there are no people left in Russia at all, however, as well as resources.
                  And tell me pzhl. How can a nuclear power be recorded in a colony? Where are the vaunted zircons, poseidons with daggers and maces?
                  Or do you want to say that if the chubaisyonok is "accidentally." hang himself in the toilet, then America will move on us?
                  Honestly, some kind of childish babble, interspersed with television delirium!
                  1. Tatyana
                    Tatyana 24 September 2021 17: 35
                    +7
                    Quote: Stroporez
                    A simple question, why did not the almighty, omnipotent president tore off Chubais's greedy crooked hands ?!

                    Probably because Chubais, the "market-oriented" little soro, has a serious "roof" in the USA itself!
                    А Russia in the sovereign sense is still weak.
                    For the FULL sovereignty of Russia, it essentially lacks FINANCIAL independence from the US Federal Reserve.


                    Here they are - friends of the United States, representatives of the financial and economic bloc of Russia and apologists who share the same views of the American course of "market restructuring" of the entire economy in Russia with the aim of its inclusive integration into the economy of the West, i.e. subjugation of Russia as a colony of the United States.


                    In the photo at the table with the former US Secretary of State Henry Kissinger - Tlava RUSNANO Chubais, the future chairman of the Central Bank of the Russian Federation Nabiulina and the ex-Minister of Finance of the Russian Federation Kudrin.
                    In the US sanctions list against Russians, these US friends were not, and never will be!
                    1. Tatyana
                      Tatyana 24 September 2021 18: 06
                      +5
                      Quote: Stroporez
                      And tell me pzhl. how can a nuclear power be recorded in a colony? Where are the vaunted zircons, poseidons with daggers and maces?

                      You, apparently, do not quite imagine what the FULL sovereignty of the country consists of.
                      In addition to the military advantage in the world, there must also be economic self-sufficiency.
                      Economic self-sufficiency is not only self-sufficient natural, production and human resources, but also independent national FINANCES from other states, which are the circulatory system in the economic "body" of any state.
                      1. Svarog
                        Svarog 24 September 2021 19: 28
                        +8
                        Quote: Tatiana
                        You, apparently, do not quite imagine what the FULL sovereignty of the country consists of.

                        Tatyana .. there is no half-hearted sovereignty .. it either exists or it does not.
                        Just like Chubais .. he is either an enemy of the state or a friend of Putin. You can't be a little pregnant .. You can't be a little bit patriot .. Well, in my opinion .. hi
                      2. ja-ja-vw
                        ja-ja-vw 24 September 2021 19: 55
                        +8
                        Quote: Svarog
                        Tatyana .. there is no half-hearted sovereignty .. it either exists or it does not.

                        Sovereignty can be: state, national, national.
                        And there is also "divided sovereignty" (in the United States: in a federal state, sovereign power is equally exercised by the federation and its constituent entities, and, therefore, sovereignty belongs to both the federation and the subjects, each in their sphere)
                        There are theories that the principle of residual sovereignty is valid in Russia (Chechnya, Tatarstan), of course not everywhere.
                        I like the concepts of legal (formal) and actual (real) state sovereignty more.
                        Example Ukraine (since 2014) or Iraq.
                        Including Tatiana is wrong and wrong.
                        And so yes, if someone shit in the entrance or holes on the roads, it is definitely the Americans who are to blame, Obama in particular. Although the roads ... they are somehow in symbiosis with fools
                        fellow
                      3. Svarog
                        Svarog 24 September 2021 20: 15
                        +3
                        Sovereignty can be: state, national, national.

                        It happens ... but it was about the sovereignty of the country ... that is, the state ... which means ..
                        Complete independence of the state from other states in its internal affairs and external relations.

                        Either she is ... or she is not ... There is no such thing, partial independence ..
                      4. ja-ja-vw
                        ja-ja-vw 24 September 2021 21: 08
                        +5
                        Quote: Svarog
                        There is no such thing, partial independence ..

                        Iraq?
                        Ukraine?
                        Afghanistan (until recently)
                        Azerbaijan today?
                        I repeat
                        Quote: ja-ja-vw
                        I like the concepts of legal (formal) and actual (real) state sovereignty more.

                        This is, of course, primitively stupidly written.
                        Quote: Tatiana
                        In addition to the military advantage in the world, there must also be economic self-sufficiency.

                        The lady simply does not understand what she is writing about.
                        example of WW2 Switzerland:
                        "economic self-sufficiency"
                        Air Force - Messerschmitts, cards for the following goods:
                        From October 30, 1939: sugar, pasta, legumes, rice, cereals, flour, barley and oats, edible fats
                        From December 1, 1940: textiles, footwear, soap, detergents
                        From 31 May 1941: coffee, tea, cocoa
                        From 31 August 1941: cheese
                        From December 3, 1941: eggs and egg-based products
                        From 1 January 1942: fresh milk
                        From March 1942: meat
                        From May 4, 1942: honey, jam, canned fruits
                        From June 1943: chocolate
                        The card system lasted until 1948.

                        On June 4, 1940, the Swiss Air Force shoot down two German Bf.110s. On the same day, a lone He.111 lures 12 Swiss fighters into French territory, where they are attacked by 28 German Bf.110C fighters.
                        A long-term loan was granted to Hitler in the amount of CHF 150.
                        German and Italian military cargoes were transported by Swiss railways.
                        The US Air Force bombed Swiss cities: April 1, 1944 - Schaffhausen in the north of the country, December 25, 1944 - Teingen, February 22, 1945, 13 settlements in Switzerland were bombed at once, March 4, 1945 - simultaneously Basel and Zurich ..
                        In March 1944, one American bomber was shot down and another landed on a Swiss airfield.
                        HAS SWITZERLAND SOVEREIGNTY?
                      5. Svarog
                        Svarog 24 September 2021 21: 13
                        +4
                        Iraq?
                        Ukraine?
                        Afghanistan (until recently)
                        Azerbaijan today?
                        I repeat

                        These are 100% dependent states ..
                      6. ja-ja-vw
                        ja-ja-vw 24 September 2021 21: 18
                        +4
                        Quote: Svarog
                        These are 100% dependent states ..

                        Zelensky and Co. will definitely disagree with this. After visiting Biden, he crowned himself as the most exclusive partner in the United States. And a recent speech at OON (with an empty hall, really .. good
                        we also have a kind of "sovereignty".
                        Can you imagine the head of the US State Department who has children living in Russia or Iran?
                        and the villas of the members of the government in the NATO countries? (and residence permit in the same place)?
                        and the ruble, the number of bills printed, depends ONLY on the $ received by the country?
                        our sovereignty is castrated.
                        On paper, he is, but in fact ... Chubais
                      7. Svarog
                        Svarog 24 September 2021 21: 21
                        +6
                        Quote: ja-ja-vw
                        On paper, he is, but in fact ... Chubais

                        So I am about that ..
                      8. Vladimir1155
                        Vladimir1155 26 September 2021 13: 48
                        0
                        Chubais's power is based on indifference, drunkenness and stupidity of the masses, every nation deserves the power that it has ... who brought Chubais to power? who yelled that give us American panties, we will sew hats out of them? admires all Westerners, for whom is the ideal Mercedes? total sycophancy in front of the west of the broad masses is the basis for the Jews selling Russia
                      9. ja-ja-vw
                        ja-ja-vw 26 September 2021 16: 49
                        +1
                        Quote: vladimir1155
                        total sycophancy in front of the west of the broad masses is the basis for the Jews selling Russia

                        remake man and humanity.
                        Neither Hitler nor Stalin succeeded in this.
                        primates: they were primates, and they remain.
                        Animal instincts are innate, genetically fixed abilities and forms of behavior of animals, carried out in order to obtain a useful result to ensure the vital activity of an individual or a group of individuals. The most vital instincts for animals are:
                        -instinct of food extraction,
                        -instinct of reproduction (for sentient primates, this is probably a sexual pleasure)
                        -the protective instinct of self-preservation,
                        -migration instinct.

                        You cannot correct the foundations of the UNIVERSE with any doctrine.
                        The raid of intelligence on the brains of intelligent primates is very subtle.
                        request
                      10. Vladimir1155
                        Vladimir1155 26 September 2021 18: 01
                        0
                        Quote: ja-ja-vw
                        remake man and humanity.
                        Neither Hitler nor Stalin succeeded in this.
                        primates: they were primates, and they remain.
                        Animal instincts are innate, genetically fixed abilities and forms of animal behavior, carried out with the aim of obtaining a useful result for ensuring the vital activity of an individual or a group of individuals. The most vital instincts for animals are:
                        -instinct of food extraction,
                        -instinct of reproduction (for sentient primates, this is probably a sexual pleasure)
                        -the protective instinct of self-preservation,
                        -migration instinct.
                        You cannot correct the foundations of the UNIVERSE with any doctrine.
                        The raid of intelligence on the brains of intelligent primates is very subtle.

                        you are partially right ..., however, in order to act in his own interests, a person should be aware of his interests, this is still very different from animals, ... for example, it is not profitable to be a colony, it is harmful for us to drink vodka to smoke, it is harmful for us to kill our children with abortions and love everything Western, despite the fact that TV teaches the opposite ... because animals do not wear the image of God, but believe TV, and a person can think abstractly and suppose to think several moves ahead logically, and this is not an intiligenistic stupid raid of "culture" mixed with confidence in his infallibility, pride of vanity, but in fact, the appearance of a weakness of the brain who was unable to recognize the subtle flattery of university teachers and his blindness and addiction to this flattery and, consequently, faith in television ... But there is a way of spiritual development and it is in monotheistic religion (monotheism is the basis of the objective logic of thinking), but few follow it
                      11. ja-ja-vw
                        ja-ja-vw 26 September 2021 22: 14
                        +2
                        Quote: vladimir1155
                        for example, it is not profitable to be a colony, it is harmful for us to drink vodka, to smoke, it is harmful for us to kill our children with abortions and to love everything Western, despite the fact that TV teaches the opposite ..

                        as if you do not live in our country?
                        communists groan "there is no national idea, but earlier"

                        there is an idea, and it FIRMLY settled down, let mycelium in my homeland: And this is BABLO, BABLO IN ANY WAY. It is necessary, for the sake of the dough: I will kill the mother, drown the child, betray the nation.
                        And only FEAR slows down a little.
                        Quote: vladimir1155
                        But there is a path of spiritual development and it is in monotheistic religion

                        under Gundyaev?
                        .
                      12. Vladimir1155
                        Vladimir1155 26 September 2021 23: 16
                        0
                        for the love of money is the root of all evils, to which, having surrendered, some have deviated from the faith and have subjected themselves to many sorrows.
                        1 Timothy 6:10 - 1 Tim 6:10: https://bible.by/verse/61/6/10/
                        I'll keep quiet about the patriarch
                      13. ja-ja-vw
                        ja-ja-vw 27 September 2021 00: 07
                        +2
                        Quote: vladimir1155
                        1 Timothy 6:10

                        1.translation into Russian. are you sure the meaning is the same?
                        2. I can't stomach the clown opera singer Ponasenkov ... but. he is right: give sources to such an MOSTORIC EVENT! original historical documents, or references in original documents to it recourse
                      14. Tatyana
                        Tatyana 25 September 2021 22: 26
                        +1
                        Quote: ja-ja-vw
                        Quote: Tatiana
                        In addition to the military advantage in the world, there must also be economic self-sufficiency.
                        The lady simply does not understand what she is writing about.
                        On the contrary, you did not understand what I was talking about with the sling cutter!
                        If Stroporez believes that the excellent modern Armed Forces of the Russian Federation will be enough for the independent sovereignty of Russia, then I say that this is small. That Russia's economic sovereignty has actually been undermined from within. And this was served not only by some provisions of the Constitution of Russia, some of which have already been amended by an all-Russian vote and then recently corrected, but also the Federal Law of the Russian Federation "On the Central Bank of Russia"!
                        Let me remind you.
                        After ratification of the Bialowieza Accords, Russia turned into a colony of a unipolar world led by Washington. One of the most important instruments for managing Russia as a colony was the new credit and financial system (CFS) of Russia.
                        On 20 of December 1991, the State Bank of the USSR was abolished. All assets, liabilities and property of the USSR State Bank on the territory of the RSFSR were transferred to the Central Bank of the Russian Federation. A few months later, the Central Bank of the RSFSR (Bank of Russia) was renamed the Central Bank of the Russian Federation (Bank of Russia).
                        The very first version of the law "On the Central Bank of the RSFSR (Bank of Russia)" was adopted on December 2, 1990, after B.N. won the elections by a huge margin and became the first president of Russia, and six months later he signed Federal Law No. 1990-02.12.1990 of 394. The law was modified and supplemented, but on the whole its essence was preserved.
                        The betrayal of the national sovereignty of the Russian Federation in the field of finance was laid down and reinforced in its very Constitution of the Russian Federation of December 12 1993, which was compiled under the EBN under the patronage of Washington.
                        Officially, the authors of this colonial Constitution of the Russian Federation from the 1993 of the year were: Sergei Shakhrai, Anatoly Sobchak, Sergey Sergeyevich Alekseev and the Constitutional Meeting of the Russian Federation.
                        The Constitution of the Russian Federation of 1993 only consolidated the colonial position of the Russian Federation in this matter..
                        As a result, we have colonial legislation in the country, which, it seems, is impossible under comprador power to abolish in any way peacefully.

                        Hence the conclusion. The sovereignty of the Russian Federation from the US Federal Reserve is essentially DECORATIVE. A country can have its own armed forces and at the same time have colonial legislation. Those. to be a colony - a country whose financial and, accordingly, economic legislation is written not only under external control, but also works in the interests of foreign states.
                        And someone at the same time mistakenly considers Russia sovereignly independent.
                        After 1990, Russia still has not fully regained its SOVEREIGNTY. He really wears CONDITIONAL in Russia - i.e. partial - character and at any moment can be reversed, which is what the organizers of the coup d'état use.
                        So here
                        Quote: ja-ja-vw
                        I like the concepts of legal (formal) and actual (real) state sovereignty more.
                        Including Tatiana is wrong and wrong.
                        You were closer to the truth.
                      15. ja-ja-vw
                        ja-ja-vw 26 September 2021 13: 12
                        +1

                        what is the "tolerant" society here on the site.
                        or anyone who enters into a discussion with me gets a minus.
                        inadequate non-human under the nickname Tiksi-3 (Dmitry), or someone like that
                        I corrected.
                        Quote: Tatiana
                        believes that the excellent modern Armed Forces of the Russian Federation will be enough for the independent sovereignty of Russia,

                        Souveränität - supreme power, supremacy, domination
                        the supremacy of state power in internal affairs and the independence of the state in external affairs.
                        1.Russia, current, does not have the supremacy of state power in internal affairs (Chechnya)
                        2.Russia, the current one, in fact has the independence of the state in external:
                        does what he wants (Crimea, Syria, and I think Belarus would be introduced if the collective farmer "gave the back"). The whole world is now in our "non-friends", except for Nicaragua, North Korea, Venezuela + 2-5 more of the same countries
                        Quote: Tatiana
                        Let me remind you.

                        don't: I remember everything. already retired.
                        But!
                        Here's what you wrote, sorry, but these are primitive reflections preached by the current "communists" who were not allowed to the trough.
                        I won't even refute (too long)
                        Quote: Tatiana
                        The sovereignty of the Russian Federation from the US FRS is essentially DECORATIVE

                        S. RF is of a personal nature, everything is aimed at the fullest satisfaction of the needs and interests of persons who have seized the country, property and have gagged the population.
                        While it is profitable: tied to the US Federal Reserve, tomorrow they will be tied to the Central Bank of the PRC yuan.
                        The day after tomorrow it will be profitable, they will become attached to the NBU and the hryvnia
                        drinks
                      16. Tatyana
                        Tatyana 26 September 2021 15: 42
                        0
                        Quote: ja-ja-vw
                        Russia, the current one, in fact has the independence of the state in the external: does what it wants
                        No, and in this matter Russia does not have independence, because independence presupposes the absence of imposition of world sanctions. to the country. RF only "holds the blow"
                        And the independence of a country is when no one in the world is afraid to even hint at the introduction of sanctions against it and, in principle, cannot do it!
                        Quote: ja-ja-vw
                        what you wrote, excuse me, but these are primitive reflections preached by the current "communists" who have not been allowed to the trough.
                        I won't even refute (too long)

                        You don't know the "current communists" well! These scientific investigations are not at all their merit!
                        The Communist Party - in the classical sense - has long been a party of missed opportunities.
                        S. RF is of a personal nature, everything is aimed at the fullest satisfaction of the needs and interests of persons who have seized the country, property and have gagged the population.
                        This is all the tip of the iceberg. The reasons are much deeper.
                    2. Ryaruav
                      Ryaruav 24 September 2021 21: 55
                      -1
                      all the Jews, the Bashkir woman, well, send all this shobla to the promised heaven
                  2. VasYok
                    VasYok 25 September 2021 10: 27
                    +3
                    How can a nuclear power be recorded in a colony?

                    Elementary Watson.

                    Where are the vaunted zircons, poseidons with daggers and maces?

                    Do you really think that Mr. Putin, who was undergoing special training in America, will press the red button? Naive.
                    https://maxpark.com/community/129/content/6239932
                    (This is not why "friend Beale" made Putin president of the Russian Federation.)
                    if Chubaisyonok "accidentally." will hang himself in the toilet, then America will move on us?

                    Of course not. Just like Russia nothing will not do if the United States sinks another submarine of the Russian Navy.
              2. The comment was deleted.
              3. The comment was deleted.
              4. parusnik
                parusnik 24 September 2021 18: 03
                +2
                A simple question, why did not the almighty, omnipotent president tore off Chubais's greedy crooked hands ?!
                They are not greedy, "gold", to which everything does not touch becomes gold, for a certain group of course, why tear them off? smile
              5. Svarog
                Svarog 24 September 2021 19: 25
                +6
                Quote: Stroporez
                A simple question, why did not the almighty, omnipotent president tore off Chubais's greedy crooked hands ?!

                Probably because Chubais is his own .. It's a cooperative ..
              6. ja-ja-vw
                ja-ja-vw 24 September 2021 21: 26
                +4
                Quote: Stroporez
                A simple question, why did not the almighty, omnipotent president tore off Chubais's greedy crooked hands ?!

                so he not only "did not tear off" Chubais.
                In Chechnya, for example, it is not even clear whether the laws of the Russian Federation are in effect?
                and these?

                bald, who is on the bottom left: did he pay the fine? for blotting out an area the size of France ...
                1. Sling cutter
                  Sling cutter 24 September 2021 21: 46
                  +2
                  Quote: ja-ja-vw
                  bald, who is on the bottom left: did he pay the fine? for blotting out an area the size of France ...

                  Here in the photo I came to the elvirka to give it away, they will move the ruble a couple of times there, here and profit.
                  What "wonderful" people are represented, the color of the nation or the national color, it is a pity that the population does not know them. There are still not enough "fighters" against drug trafficking, apparently on a business trip.
                2. Vadim237
                  Vadim237 25 September 2021 16: 09
                  0
                  I paid - all 146 billion rubles, though they went not to the environment, but to the road fund.
                  1. ja-ja-vw
                    ja-ja-vw 25 September 2021 16: 13
                    0
                    Quote: Vadim237
                    I paid - all 146 billion rubles, though they went not to the environment, but to the road fund.

                    good
                    amused the road fund.
                    did not pay: the court has not yet
                    1. Vadim237
                      Vadim237 27 September 2021 20: 17
                      0
                      He paid a long time ago - now he has a second court for 30 billion.
                      1. ja-ja-vw
                        ja-ja-vw 27 September 2021 20: 19
                        +2
                        Yes. missed. not expected
                        https://www.nornickel.ru/news-and-media/press-releases-and-news/nornikel-polnostyu-oplatil-ushcherb-nanesennyy-okruzhayushchey-srede-v-svyazi-s-razlivom-topliva-na-tets-3/type=releases
                3. V means B
                  V means B 26 September 2021 17: 37
                  0
                  Laws of the Russian Federation? Come on, this is almost a separate emirate, but for some reason under the tricolor and money goes there from the budget. what
                  1. ja-ja-vw
                    ja-ja-vw 26 September 2021 21: 54
                    +1
                    Quote: V is for B
                    RF laws? Come on, it's almost a separate emirate,

                    Duc what am I talking about?
                    almost the same: Dagestan, slightly lighter than Kabard, even lighter than Tatarstan.
                    Some hares are under the strict vigilance of the law.
            2. tihonmarine
              tihonmarine 24 September 2021 16: 07
              +1
              Quote: Tatiana
              It would be better that the name of Chubais did not even stand next to the state of the Russian Federation!

              Precisely noticed.
            3. businessv
              businessv 24 September 2021 16: 50
              +3
              Quote: Tatiana
              It would be better that the name of Chubais did not even stand next to the state of the Russian Federation!
              Not so, Tan, "it would be better if the body of the red-haired scoundrel disappeared from our state altogether" ... it is much more material, more efficient and effective. wink
        2. Sling cutter
          Sling cutter 24 September 2021 15: 44
          0
          Quote: Darkesstcat
          I read that everything was ruined, and then a sharp transition to the fact that there is no money for energy transition to green energy.

          That's right, they destroyed and still managed to transfer the cascade of Siberian hydroelectric power plants to foreign jurisdiction. And now the transition to a new energy-technological order has also been wasted.
          And who said that solar energy is more expensive than CHP?
          1. Darkesstcat
            Darkesstcat 24 September 2021 15: 46
            +3
            maybe because it is subsidized? And not as stable as day and night?
            1. kot423
              kot423 24 September 2021 16: 00
              +5
              Quote: Darkesstcat
              And not as stable as day and night?

              Not only. What to do in winter? Lights on the panel to shine, + to run with a broom, to clean the snow?
              PS just don't tell the adherents of the fairy tale panels about super sensitive quartz (it will come out 1,5 times more expensive) and heating (all the generated energy will be spent on this). Not with our climate, this shnyaga (if you put it individually with powerful batteries, it will ride, in the size of the country - bullshit), it is only installed in Africa and Australia. And mirrors with heated salt - in the same place.
              1. Barberry25
                Barberry25 24 September 2021 18: 29
                0
                and who told you that ours will be hit completely? 1) what you need to know - the carbon footprint tax in the EU can hit our producers very hard, so ours lay straws in advance so that for each of our products there is a certificate that it was created with the help of green energy 2) no one will give up reserve capacities, 3) no one excludes that more advanced technologies may appear in the near future, 4) our companies have ALREADY started supplying components for green energy to the EU, so this is just an investment, no more than
            2. Sling cutter
              Sling cutter 24 September 2021 16: 04
              +1
              Quote: Darkesstcat
              maybe because it is subsidized? And not as stable as day and night?

              I’ll tell you this, if the Soviet government, led by the Bolsheviks, had not built the most powerful energy system in the world, then we were still burning torches under the present ones.
              Everything is expensive for them, if you need to build something.
              And for you the question is, what is cheaper, to build a wind turbine, for example, in SNT and panels on the roof, or to drag the networks from the HS to the consumer, taking into account losses?
              1. Darkesstcat
                Darkesstcat 24 September 2021 16: 26
                +6
                It is cheaper to supply gas to a CHPP. With windmills it will be like in England.
                1. Sling cutter
                  Sling cutter 24 September 2021 16: 32
                  -1
                  Quote: Darkesstcat
                  It is cheaper to supply gas to a CHPP. With windmills it will be like in England.

                  Stop posting nonsense!
                  First of all, you don't know how it is in England.
                  Second, we have half of the country not supplied with gas, what the hell is a thermal power plant ???
                  1. Crowe
                    Crowe 24 September 2021 17: 00
                    +10
                    Forgive me, Kamarads, I don't know about England, but everyone knows about Texas - the frost hit, and everyone was frozen - both people and windmills ...
                    1. Sling cutter
                      Sling cutter 24 September 2021 17: 27
                      +2
                      Quote: Crowe
                      but everyone knows about Texas - the frost hit, and everyone froze - both people and windmills ...

                      And the worms ???? belay
                  2. Barberry25
                    Barberry25 24 September 2021 18: 44
                    0
                    so don't post ... 75% of the country's residents live in cities and urban settlements being city dwellers + the level of gasification in rural areas is 59% ..
                    1. Vadim237
                      Vadim237 25 September 2021 16: 21
                      0
                      In Russia, only conventional and tidal hydroelectric projects for the future with a total capacity of more than 180 GW will not have a shortage of electricity, including for hydrogen production. And the massive introduction of SPP and WPP is a dubious decision - the cost is high and low.
                      1. Barberry25
                        Barberry25 25 September 2021 17: 45
                        0
                        Well, this is taking into account the tidal in the Sea of ​​Japan, I know, but there is a construction of the century, and the issue needs to be resolved by the 25th year ... so I think in the near future we will find out that electricity from hydroelectric power plants, nuclear power plants and other wind farms goes to a number of large companies + they will supply some factories will use new solar and wind power plants to meet the EU's carbon footprint requirement.
          2. businessv
            businessv 24 September 2021 16: 57
            +6
            Quote: Stroporez
            And who said that solar energy is more expensive than CHP?
            If you calculate the costs of creating infrastructure, let's say, wind power fields with a capacity of 1 GW and compare the obtained with the same Gig produced at nuclear power plants, you will agree that the latter will turn out to be much cheaper. Wind turbines have a huge amount of oil in gearboxes, which require annual maintenance and many other things that are not cheap at all. How economical are the Germans, but they have ceased to rush in the production and use of renewable energy. Regarding thermal power plants, the picture is the same, considering that you need to invest money only for maintenance, and not for construction. If we compare ready-made production capacities, then naturally, the absence of fuel costs makes this industry attractive, but again we must not forget that the performance of solar panels decreases over time and this cannot be changed, and wind turbines have a limited service life and their replacement. consists in almost complete replacement of everything except the mast.
            1. Blackmokona
              Blackmokona 24 September 2021 17: 27
              +4
              The capital costs of a nuclear power plant are radically higher than those of a wind farm.
              The current itself is also cheaper at the wind farm.
              The only thing that keeps the nuclear power plant is that the nuclear power plant operates around the clock, and the wind farm will have to be plugged with accumulating capacities, which are expensive, and here it already turns out to be more expensive with them.
              1. businessv
                businessv 24 September 2021 17: 59
                +3
                Quote: BlackMokona
                The capital costs of a nuclear power plant are radically higher than those of a wind farm.
                I wrote about this, but if you take into account the service life, maintenance, maximum power at maximum load and, in the end, the stability of production, it will turn out to be about the same and these are not my words, the Germans have calculated everything for a long time and not on fictitious, but real examples. The only thing worth discussing is the location of the nuclear power plant. smile
                ZY During the trial operation of wind turbines in Germany, they were sold at a price of 1 euro per 1 W today, I think, more expensive. The capacity after which it becomes profitable to maintain them - from 1 MW, the maximum was 1,5 MW.
                1. Citizen simple (almost)
                  Citizen simple (almost) 24 September 2021 19: 12
                  +3
                  Quote: businessv
                  production stability

                  Quote: businessv
                  The only thing worth discussing is the location of the nuclear power plant.

                  Yes, that's right. But in the same way, in the case of renewable energy generation - for each climatic region its own solutions, it is important to apply them correctly and wisely.
                  It is not necessary to stick windmills everywhere (it is clear that they will be effective only where there are frequent winds)). After all, somewhere else there is a lot of sun, and somewhere there is a lot of water, and somewhere there is even a lot of geothermal springs, and so on. Here is the competent accounting and use of all local factors (individually or in combination) for each region - and you can achieve the maximum effect from RES as a whole.

                  The nuclear power plant as a whole is also quite "clean" energy, of course - but only at the moment of immediate generation. But in contrast to this: orders of magnitude (and long-term!) Consequences of potential accidents, plus problems of waste disposal. These are the main fears (and in some ways even not unfounded, it must be admitted). And in general, nuclear energy does not belong to the category of renewable energy sources at all.
                  Well, plus delivery infrastructure electricity, of course. I think that at this point any large "centralized" generation systems in general will always lose out to many "distributed" local systems (like the same hydro generators, wind turbines or solar panels) in a number of parameters - from cost to fault tolerance of the region's energy system as a whole (and after all the last factor is perhaps the most important).

                  That is, at the nuclear power plant, of course, it is still impossible to finally put an end to it. But it makes sense to build them only in those regions where any renewable energy sources are really so unstable that, in principle, they do not allow obtaining a constant generation of the required capacities.
                  In the same place, where there is a lot of constant "free" energy - in my opinion, it is simply a sin not to use these natural opportunities and not to switch to renewable energy generation.
                  1. businessv
                    businessv 24 September 2021 19: 32
                    +2
                    Quote: Citizen is simple (almost)
                    In the same place, where there is a lot of constant "free" energy - in my opinion, it is simply a sin not to use these natural opportunities and not to switch to renewable energy generation.
                    It can be seen that you are a supporter of renewable energy sources, but do not take into account many factors. If we talk about wind turbines, then they cannot be located next to housing because of the constant noise, and secondly, today there is no technology to dispose of the composite blades of wind turbines that have exhausted their resource, so take a look here: https://www.obozrevatel.com /green/wind-power/kladbische-vetra-v-ssha-nashli-poligon-dlya-utilizatsii-gigantskih-vetrogeneratorov.htm
                    There is a separate conversation about photogenerators, they work as long as they are profitable, but it falls every year and after the permissible level of production, the same thing happens to them as with wind turbines - a complete replacement, but all these production systems must work in a single power grids, which makes your proposal inappropriate to place them in different, suitable places for them, because it implies a mandatory connection to a single, and not to a local power system, otherwise it requires additional costs to operate in a local mode, but where can you find a consumer of 1 MW of energy , still not connected to the power grid, I can not imagine.
                    1. Citizen simple (almost)
                      Citizen simple (almost) 24 September 2021 20: 42
                      0
                      Quote: businessv
                      It can be seen that you are a supporter of renewable energy

                      Rather the enemy overly skeptical attitudes towards renewable energy sources. This will be more accurate, probably ...))

                      Yes, I agree, there are still a lot of unresolved issues (as, by the way, with AE) - but the future belongs to renewable energy sources, nevertheless. Indeed, unlike any fossil fuel, the reserves of such energy are "conditionally infinite." And now absolutely most of it is simply not used in any way.
                      In my opinion, this is simply wasteful and shortsighted. Especially taking into account the current "quiet electrical revolution" in transport - which in the coming decades will require not only a quantitative, but also a qualitative "transition" in the energy sector to some new stage of development.

                      And yes, the problem of recycling is also familiar to me. But, you see, this is an order of magnitude less of a problem than the physical limitation of resources? Considering that the problem potentially solvable, it's only a matter of time. We can learn how to efficiently process composites, but by definition, we simply cannot learn how to restore reserves of fossil fuels.

                      As for the networks, nothing prevents you from organizing the network in the same way. And transfer surplus energy production between different local systems as needed (where possible). The volumes are small, the highways are much simpler and cheaper.
                      But, unlike large "centralized" systems, each point in such a "distributed" system can always first self-provide for yourself, and only then give the "surplus" generation to the general network.
                      In the same way, new points "specially for them" may appear for large consumers.

                      This is the advantage of distributed systems - the minimum of consumers depends on the possible failure of a certain generation point (roughly like a bulkhead system in shipbuilding, if roughly).

                      PS
                      Plus there is one more point - not the most obvious, but extremely important for understanding why the whole world science is so "worn" with the topic of renewable energy sources. it energy independence from fossil fuel supplying countries. That is, the issue is also largely political and strategic, far from only environmental.
                      1. Sanichsan
                        Sanichsan 25 September 2021 00: 13
                        0
                        Quote: Citizen is simple (almost)
                        Yes, I agree, there are still a lot of unresolved issues (as, by the way, with AE) - but the future belongs to renewable energy sources, nevertheless.

                        Are you seriously? the future belongs to the energy sector, which works only on state subsidies? belay why wind generators, and not Uzbeks or Ukrainians on bicycles with generators? they are also self-reproducing, and subsidies for their wages will hardly be higher than the subsidies that are now allocated to support unprofitable wind and solar energy wink
                        Quote: Citizen is simple (almost)
                        We can learn how to efficiently process composites, but by definition, we simply cannot learn how to restore reserves of fossil fuels.
                        yes you! belay you never cease to amaze! and those guys who are building closed-cycle nuclear power plants right now apparently do not understand what they are doing?

                        Quote: Citizen is simple (almost)
                        This is the advantage of distributed systems - the minimum of consumers depends on the possible failure of a certain generation point (roughly like a bulkhead system in shipbuilding, if roughly).

                        very interesting ... but how did it happen that a snowball fell in the USA this year and the whole state was left without electricity for 2 weeks. out in Northern Australia, Elon Musk also staged a miracle on solar panels! they regularly sit without light and pay the Mask ... this is already something from the Ukrainian opera wassat they didn’t jump for a price, but the CHP was already demolished, no production could be launched except for national crafts because of sky-high prices per kilowatt, and there is no money for the CHP because everything flows into Musk’s pocket, and you also have to pay extra from the budget. a clear peremog! wassat
                        by the way, the cunning Musk feeds his gigafactories from quite traditional thermal power plants wink although naive he lied that everything will be from wind turbines and solar panels laughing
                        Quote: Citizen is simple (almost)
                        It is energy independence from the fossil fuel supplying countries. That is, the issue is also in many ways a political and strategic one, far from only an environmental one.

                        Well, this is the purest lie! hi Is the service of all this junk free for you? blades, generator parts, infrastructure parts, maintenance technicians ... all of this you can only get from the manufacturer of these wind turbines. if you suddenly forgot, let me remind you that you do not have your own production due to the fact that wind turbines cannot normally provide electricity even for small industries. and now you are completely and totally dependent on a specific manufacturer, because spare parts from another manufacturer will not work, and an attempt to switch to another manufacturer means a complete change of the power system ... nifiga energy independence! belay
                        what you suggest is a switch from cannabis to heroin. judging by your fantasies, you should understand this allegory wink
                      2. Citizen simple (almost)
                        Citizen simple (almost) 25 September 2021 01: 05
                        -1
                        Quote: SanichSan
                        Are you seriously? the future belongs to the energy sector, which works only on state subsidies?

                        You have written a lot (for some reason) - but, apparently, you are simply far from this whole topic, forgive me. Therefore, you are broadcasting common (and boring) nonsense here.
                        I have here decent, polite and extremely calm discussion with dear Vadim. Do not interfere with your boorish and stupid "Petrosyanism", you are welcome... yes

                        Or speak on the essence of our discussion. I hope that this will not be too difficult for you (unless, of course, you really have something to say, besides those nonsense of yours).
                      3. businessv
                        businessv 25 September 2021 19: 15
                        0
                        Quote: Citizen is simple (almost)
                        But, unlike large "centralized" systems, each point in such a "distributed" system can always first independently provide for itself, and only then give the "surplus" generation to the general network.
                        You still misunderstand the system of the device of power grids, colleague. The fact is that the generation of energy and its entry into the system occurs simultaneously! Therefore, local or priority provision of energy to individual consumers in this case is impossible! I wrote about this in the last post. The "given" / generated and received into the grid energy is accounted for in each generating device separately if they belong to different owners. Otherwise, of course, you are right, but such energy will not be cheaper in view of the moments I have briefly described.
                      4. Citizen simple (almost)
                        Citizen simple (almost) 25 September 2021 23: 28
                        0
                        Quote: businessv
                        You still misunderstand the power grid system, colleague. The fact is that the generation of energy and its entry into the system occurs simultaneously! Therefore, local or priority provision of energy to individual consumers in this case is impossible!

                        Yes of course. This is if in the simplest form.
                        But I will try to more fully reveal my thought. Although I am also a "techie" by education - but not an energy engineer, here you are absolutely right. Therefore, only in the most general terms, as far as I see and understand it myself (and I honestly ask you to correct it, colleague, if I am mistaken about something) ... hi

                        By "priority point" I mean any option in which the energy consumer turns on между generator and common network:
                        A) System "generator + storage" (sufficient to provide this point for a certain conditional period). The drive is fully charged - all generation "in excess of the norm" goes into the general network. Drive not fully charged - charge priority. This is the most convenient, but also more expensive option (prices for battery systems of this capacity are simply cosmic).
                        B) System "generator + controller", in real time. Any generation that exceeds the current consumption of the point immediately goes into the general network. If at the current moment the point consumes all the energy of the generator, the return to the general network is turned off. This is a little more "tricky" and less convenient, but cheaper option.

                        Quote: businessv
                        The "given" / generated and received in the grid energy is accounted for in each generating device separately if they belong to different owners.

                        And here we have to look at specific solutions. More than once I have come across information about renewable energy sources (mostly European ones) that the owners of such generators are quite successful in selling their "surplus" of their generation to public networks. That is, this moment was somehow resolved, and for a relatively long time. How exactly, by what methods - alas, I don't know for sure, technical details are not given there ...
                      5. businessv
                        businessv 26 September 2021 09: 58
                        0
                        Quote: Citizen is simple (almost)
                        More than once I have come across information on renewable energy sources (mostly European ones) that the owners of such generators are quite successful in selling their "surplus" of their generation to public networks. That is, this moment was somehow resolved, and for a relatively long time.
                        The fact of the matter is that they did not decide. A person who, for example, has solar generators installed, will not be able to use them separately from the network, the reason you voiced yourself - controllers, inverter, battery, etc., so there is a choice - either you work out for yourself, or you are in common network and sell. The only thing that can be done is to disconnect from the general network if necessary, but then a purchase contract will not be drawn up with you. Generating energy is the least problem. And energy storage devices (batteries) make this industry not at all applicable for generating cheap energy - they often fail and questions arise of replacement, disposal, which is very expensive, as you wrote.
                      6. Citizen simple (almost)
                        Citizen simple (almost) 26 September 2021 20: 32
                        0
                        Quote: businessv
                        The fact of the matter is that they did not decide. A person who, for example, has solar generators, will not be able to use them separately from the network ...
                        ... so there is a choice - either you create for yourself, or you are in a common network and sell. The only thing that can be done is to disconnect from the general network if necessary, but then a purchase contract will not be drawn up with you

                        So I just mean that no one will sell energy to the general network in a situation when "there is not enough myself." Profit is profit, but money cannot light the same light bulb at home, alas. Therefore, they only sell periodically occurring "surplus" generation.

                        But for this, you first need to determine the specific level of generation, from which generation is already considered "excessive". And this is only solved constant accounting of the consumption of the point itself - the owner of which is always "in priority", in any case.
                        Consequently, the problem is quite solvable - if all these people not only provide themselves with energy, but also periodically sell its "surplus".

                        Moreover, in the case of renewable energy, no contract is simply able to expose such a supplier to certain "mandatory volumes" - since this energy source itself is not at all subject to the supplier, just as the production volumes are not subject to him (for obvious reasons) ...

                        PS
                        Here, by the way, an interesting analogy came to mind with ... private farms. There, after all, the principle is almost the same - first they provide for themselves, only then they sell the remaining surplus "to everyone who wants it."
                      7. businessv
                        businessv 26 September 2021 21: 33
                        0
                        Quote: Citizen is simple (almost)
                        Here, by the way, an interesting analogy came to mind with ... private farms.
                        Well, if you decide to use this form of presentation, then imagine that every farm has automatic milking machines connected to a common pipe, which the farmer does not have access to, for each liter he is paid less than it costs on the market, but he can buy as much as you like. The same is the case in the energy sector! Energy is a commodity, but any problem of a commodity is its realization. For this, power grids are taken, but under certain conditions. Conditions that do not suit them, they simply do not accept, and if you generate energy, you will not be able to sell it without a license - this is not allowed by the legislation! That's it, the circle is closed. The license price is such that you need to sell so much energy that for this you need to have very appropriate, crazy capacities (remember about the price of generators 1 W = 1 euro), which is not available even for very poor people.
                      8. Citizen simple (almost)
                        Citizen simple (almost) 26 September 2021 22: 05
                        0
                        Quote: businessv
                        For this, power grids are taken, but under certain conditions. Conditions that don't suit them, they just don't accept

                        And they have no choice.
                        Either honestly buy "surplus" from private traders (while saving a lot on the construction of new large power facilities), or private traders will simply hammer a bolt on them, and then let the power grids twist out as they want with their own capacities ...

                        You have a certain logical error here. You criticize (and in some places not unreasonably) certain technical issues - but you just cannot grasp the "picture as a whole", in my opinion.
                        And the "big picture" (going back a bit in our conversation) is this: extremely expensive and much less fault-tolerant centralized systems versus cheaper and much more fault-tolerant distributed systems.
                        The first option is only possible for the state, with a maximum of PPP. The second option is within the power of almost anyone (with a sufficient amount, of course)).

                        From this point of view, try to consider the issue. I think that everything will definitely fall into place - both the benefit of the state and the benefit of the owners of such generators themselves ...

                        Quote: businessv
                        The license price is such that you need to sell so much energy that for this you need to have very appropriate, crazy capacities.

                        Here it is necessary to count for each country. Which one are you talking about? And, if possible, with reference to specific tariffs - well, to estimate the supposedly "crazy capacity" ...
                      9. businessv
                        businessv 26 September 2021 23: 06
                        0
                        Quote: Citizen is simple (almost)
                        or private traders will simply hammer a bolt on them, and then let the power grids twist out as they want with their own capacities ...
                        Damn, you are so far from reality that I am simply amazed! laughing You are comparing the army of the country with the partisans! Can you at least imagine the amount of energy generated in the country in traditional ways? The ratio of the unified grid to private grids (which I haven't heard of at all)? Could it be interesting to offer the purchase of bread from a home bakery to a bakery? You offer to telephonize two houses privately, bypassing the city telephone network in a millionth city, but for each access to the city network, the consumer must pay, but he can keep a cheap connection within his two houses! wink I described to you almost the entire system with its structure and complexities, but you stand your ground, so we conclude that you do not understand, because all over the world all power engineers understand the complexity and high cost of this production method and this is not a lobby of oil workers, but reality market! That is why renewable energy does not come, and limited investments are made only because of the market demand for "clean energy". I can give a link to tariffs, but each city has its own energy price. Don't you pay for it? smile Calculate how much your wind turbine with a capacity of 1 MW will pay off if you paid 1 million euros for it, while you pay 15% of its price for maintenance every year, it generates a maximum of 80% of its nominal capacity, and the networks buy your energy for 20 % lower than retail, this will be the best price in the country! I think that you will cope with the arithmetic yourself, share the result and take into account that this is not your money and you have to pay for it, albeit preferential, but a loan in the amount of 6,5% / year. Dare, after receiving the results, share your opinion, maybe it will be more close to reality. Good luck!
                      10. Citizen simple (almost)
                        Citizen simple (almost) 26 September 2021 23: 27
                        0
                        Quote: businessv
                        You are comparing the army of the country with the partisans!

                        This is your mistake ... smile

                        These are not "partisans". it pioneers some new system. The smartest states have already played enough with their "statehood". And now, at last, they realized that without private initiative they can’t do anything at all - that it’s easier to build "distributed systems of private owners" than to strain over all sorts of "centralized national projects" ...

                        The world is changing - and it is changing very much (gradually, almost according to Marx), whether we like it or not. Therefore, now it is no longer possible to think in terms of the past, it can become just a fatal mistake.

                        Attention! You do not have permission to view hidden text.
                      11. businessv
                        businessv 26 September 2021 23: 47
                        0
                        Quote: Citizen is simple (almost)
                        This is your mistake ...

                        These are not "partisans". They are the pioneers of a new system.
                        There is no need to agitate me, I am for any boil, except a hunger strike! Just count the numbers I have given, instead of talking about the coming nishtyak and free diapers! wink And yes, I am quite loyal to the communists - in any case, they have done more for the people than the current government. smile
                      12. Citizen simple (almost)
                        Citizen simple (almost) 26 September 2021 23: 53
                        0
                        Quote: businessv
                        instead of talking about the upcoming nishtyak

                        Oh, well, I beg you ... sad

                        Nobody even talks about "nishtyak" (because it is generally unattainable, many have tried, but all burned out)). I'm only talking about how easy it is new generation structure - more optimal compared to the current ...
                      13. businessv
                        businessv 26 September 2021 23: 54
                        0
                        Quote: Citizen is simple (almost)
                        I'm only talking about the fact that this is just a new generation structure - more optimal than the current one ...
                        Don't write to me without numbers - there is no subject for discussion. If you think that I will count, you are mistaken, I have done this many times. laughing
                      14. Citizen simple (almost)
                        Citizen simple (almost) 26 September 2021 23: 59
                        0
                        Quote: businessv
                        Don't write me no more without numbers

                        OK, deal. yes

                        Only here strategic vision situations - always wins before "local" tactical vision... I strongly recommend that you do not forget about it ...
                  2. kig
                    kig 25 September 2021 12: 18
                    +1
                    Quote: Citizen is simple (almost)
                    In the same place, where it is full of constant "free" energy

                    There is plenty of free wind energy on the Arctic coast, but no one lives there, that's the problem. What to do? Pull power lines? It is not Chubais that is needed here, but Shoigu with his ideas.
                    1. Citizen simple (almost)
                      Citizen simple (almost) 25 September 2021 23: 33
                      0
                      Quote: kig
                      There is a lot of free wind energy on the Arctic coast, but no one lives there, that's the problem. What to do?

                      Do nothing, of course.
                      "Free" energy is full in many places, even in the most uninhabited places of the planet, this is true. But it is logical to use it only where it is really required specifically for people. That is, locally, for each region.
              2. bk0010
                bk0010 25 September 2021 00: 08
                0
                Quote: BlackMokona
                The capital costs of a nuclear power plant are radically higher than those of a wind farm.
                The current itself is also cheaper at the wind farm.
                The only thing that keeps the nuclear power plant is that the nuclear power plant operates around the clock, and the wind farm will have to be plugged with accumulating capacities, which are expensive, and here it already turns out to be more expensive with them.
                And what, wind turbines can already generate more energy during their service life than was spent on their production? Previously, they were just a way of transferring harmful emissions to China, where they were produced.
            2. El Chuvachino
              El Chuvachino 24 September 2021 19: 11
              +5
              By the way, in Texas, frozen windmills were "warmed" from helicopters with a very toxic liquid. And the production of solar panels, as well as their disposal, would not be said to be clean.
        3. Gardamir
          Gardamir 24 September 2021 16: 15
          +6
          if green electricity is always more expensive than traditional electricity?
          two examples.
          Mid-8 youth program, also discussing energy issues. The academician gets up and says, if they invested as much money in solar energy as in nuclear energy, the whole world would work on solar energy and it would be the cheapest.
          The first cars worked not only on internal combustion engines but also on steam engines. as well as electric vehicles. but the development of oil production ditched competitors.
          1. Crowe
            Crowe 24 September 2021 17: 07
            +6
            I also read a lot about this, here is just one example -
            It is said that General Motors, which launched the EV1 electric car at the turn of the century, could not persuade potential customers to purchase an electric car that was too heavy and expensive. And even leasing did not justify itself. As a result, General Motors was forced to destroy all existing EV1 electric vehicles, including those that belonged to private owners. But this electric car accelerated to 100 km / h in 8 seconds, and traveled up to 225 km without recharging.

            However, there is another version of the untimely death of the EV1 model. Rumor has it that the owners of the oil concerns managed to substitute the famous General Motors a leg - they bought up factories that produce batteries that were intended for EV1. Deprived of the most important element - power - electric cars could not last long. The company was not even able to service the electric vehicles already sold. And the whole point is that industrialists are fighting not only for the cleanliness of the environment, but also for profit.

            Quite a few inventions have been shelved in connection with such an industrial war. At one time there was a ban on the use of the "Ilyich bulb" - as gas companies did not want to be left without work. Research in various fields of science and technology was frozen so that technology would not accidentally become too progressive and throw overboard those who are now making money.
          2. businessv
            businessv 24 September 2021 17: 11
            +3
            Quote: Gardamir
            The first cars worked not only on internal combustion engines but also on steam engines.
            At that time there was no internal combustion engine, colleague, they appeared almost a century later! Steam only.
            1. Gardamir
              Gardamir 24 September 2021 18: 50
              +3
              There was no internal combustion engine at that time
              Sorry. a little in a hurry, therefore, inaccurate, cars of the early twentieth century.
          3. Motorist
            Motorist 24 September 2021 19: 55
            +3
            Quote: Gardamir
            The first cars worked not only on internal combustion engines but also on steam engines. as well as electric vehicles. but the development of oil production ditched competitors.

            They were not competitors: the efficiency is much lower due to the small temperature difference. I don't think the laws of thermodynamics were different in the early days of the automotive industry.
      2. Intruder
        Intruder 24 September 2021 18: 54
        +4
        Have you read?
        I honestly read this article twice and came to the following, purely personal conclusions:
        1. All types of technologies were mixed evenly and over a large surface: VE and AE, what is possible and not !?
        2. In the center of the article, a reference to a number of political (former) figures who now can and will be able to snatch from the budget funds and in a cunning way, just like 20-25 years ago !?
        3. Cutting the budget under the guise of building objects, every year the amount will be allocated rather big ...
        And that's it hi
        1. businessv
          businessv 24 September 2021 20: 05
          +4
          Quote: Intruder
          I honestly read this article twice and came to the following, purely personal conclusions:
          I support! Moreover, we do not have enough experience in production (just a joke, there is none at all) and exploitation of such delight. And if we take into account winter temperatures, then the oil in windmills should be universal, its quality is checked once every half a year, and this is not a cheap procedure, so the cut will be present not only during the acquisition process, but throughout the entire operation.
    2. ja-ja-vw
      ja-ja-vw 24 September 2021 20: 05
      +4
      Quote: Darkesstcat
      An article about how everything is bad and should be blamed on green energy as soon as possible?

      the article should be about the fact that if we do not bring the share of "green" energy to the level of "civilized" countries (which already practically do not have oil / gas), our products will be stupidly taxed with a carbon tax.
      The EU carbon tax could cost the suppliers of iron, steel, aluminum, fertilizers from Russia at least € 1,1 billion a year, when the tax starts to be levied at 100%.

      The tax will actually be equivalent to an additional ad valorem import duty of 16% of the value of goods - € 1,1 billion from € 7 billion (this is how much we shipped to the EEC in 2020)

      The EU Green Deal environmental plan, presented by the European Commission on July 14, envisages a 2030% reduction in carbon dioxide emissions by 55 to the 1990 level. emissions (CBAM). So far, steel, pipes, cement, aluminum, fertilizers are included in the range of goods that will be levied. and electricity.
      Importers in the EU will need to acquire CBAM certificates and exchange them for the right to import products. The price of the emissions contained in the imported products will be determined based on the cost of CO2 at auctions in the European Emissions Trading System (EU ETS).
      Now it is about 60 euros per ton of carbon.
      1. Intruder
        Intruder 24 September 2021 21: 06
        -1
        that if we do not bring the share of "green" energy to the level of "civilized" countries (which already have practically no oil / gas), our products will be stupidly taxed with a carbon tax.
        Stupidly, we will not bring it, not those times now both economically and technically! crying
        They will, as well as ..., then again, that the "Englishwoman" shit and rushed wink !?
    3. Vladimir1155
      Vladimir1155 26 September 2021 13: 58
      0
      all this stupid confusion of profane and fools who imagined themselves to be the creation of evolution, believing in progress, lisping about nature, dogs and global warming, drinking cocacola and throwing plastic bottles everywhere, but denying the evidence of objectively existing circumstances ... the objective circumstance is that the alternative energy is HARMFUL to traditional, nuclear hydro and even thermal ... every ruble is damage to nature, in order to build wind turbines you need to cook metal, transport it, install it causing damage to nature, this damage is expressed in billions of rubles and causing physical damage to nature, and it is more than emissions from a CHP plant to generate that scanty energy that we get from a wind turbine for its entire service life! Place of wind turbines only on remote islands and in the deep taiga
  2. bar
    bar 24 September 2021 15: 20
    +6
    Again, candidates of "economic sciences" with a clever air talk about energy, referring to the same authoritative "economists". And again this reasoning about nothing ...
    Maybe the energy sector will be dealt with by specialized specialists, and not the Chubais? Maybe then there will be a useful exhaust, and not stupidly cutting the budget under fashionable green slogans?
    1. Sling cutter
      Sling cutter 24 September 2021 15: 29
      +4
      Quote: bar
      And again this reasoning about nothing ...
      Maybe let the specialized specialists be engaged in the energy sector,

      And who will give them? The main "genius" said that even worms crawl out of the ground from windmills.
      1. Crowe
        Crowe 24 September 2021 16: 11
        +12
        We definitely don't need windmills - we have evil and harsh miners crawling out along with the worms.
        1. Sling cutter
          Sling cutter 24 September 2021 16: 14
          +4
          Quote: Crowe
          We definitely don't need windmills - we have evil and harsh miners crawling out along with the worms.

          Maybe it's time to wake them up ?! belay
      2. Avior
        Avior 24 September 2021 18: 45
        +8
        even worms come out of the ground from windmills

        personally saw yesterday smile
        1. El Chuvachino
          El Chuvachino 24 September 2021 19: 13
          +4
          By the way, the film is beautiful, it will not be better in the last few years and the next couple in advance
        2. ja-ja-vw
          ja-ja-vw 24 September 2021 21: 09
          +3
          Quote: Avior
          personally saw yesterday

          Good movie? Is it worth seeing?
          Threat Dune, I could not master the 2nd book
          1. Avior
            Avior 25 September 2021 08: 48
            +4
            I liked it, although at first I was skeptical. Worth seeing in my opinion
        3. Intruder
          Intruder 24 September 2021 21: 40
          +2
          personally saw yesterday
          I, too, looked the other day and spat for about an hour, the film is getting worse and worse, now such soap and so 45 minutes of the whole film, ridiculous actors and women are not very beautiful, from the word at all ... No. , since 1984 and "everything is wrong" and in general it is better to read the trilogy ... in books! yes
    2. tihonmarine
      tihonmarine 24 September 2021 16: 10
      +1
      Quote: bar
      Again, candidates of "economic sciences" with a clever air talk about energy, referring to the same authoritative "economists".

      Economists and journalists are more "savvy" about energy than energy specialists.
    3. Intruder
      Intruder 24 September 2021 21: 09
      0
      and not Chubais?
      And he is what was bad, then !? He has created so many projects since the 90s, was an "overseer" for all sorts of near-scientific affairs, for almost 20 years !? A very clever person (stupid, he wouldn’t cut coupons for so long) and a respected citizen of Russia, but we are so ungrateful ... we still allow ourselves ... lol Now, in reality - there are no prophets in our Fatherland, the people do not appreciate and cannot realize the breadth of thought, individual people !!!
  3. Victor Tsenin
    Victor Tsenin 24 September 2021 15: 31
    +7
    > The authors also consider nuclear energy as an alternative, but few agree with us, although we expect to substantiate our point of view soon.

    How can you be in disagreement with an absolutely correct point of view? The future carries ever-increasing energy costs, the future is still nuclear power plants, BN MOX reactors and the approach to the zero cycle (although it is unattainable, but it is worth striving for), and, of course, TNPP. All these wind farms, surf, geyser, solar and others, all this is fine, but as an addition. Of course, they need to be built more, but conventionally, they will provide power to your garage, but not at home. This topic has been overflowing for a long time, it's time to understand how it will actually be, and not hover in the clouds.

    As for oil, it is also an incomprehensible moment, all polymers, absolutely, let there be a package made of Magnet, made of oil. Oil, while it is there, will always be relevant. And coal, as a raw material for similar products, synthesized into what is needed, with a shortage of oil in the future.
  4. evgen1221
    evgen1221 24 September 2021 15: 31
    +5
    Isn't it necessary to wash after the world trends with a naked booty ?. Who will forbid us to heat and drive on wood inside the country then? Yes, even with our open spaces, the map will not work, the nuclear power plant will have to be diluted, plus, how many electric filling stations do we have that work without queues today?
    1. kot423
      kot423 24 September 2021 15: 39
      +4
      Quote: evgen1221
      Isn't it necessary to wash after the world trends with a naked booty ?. Who will forbid us to heat and drive on wood inside the country then?

      I absolutely agree with the first one - it is enough to remember the last / winter of the 20-21st, where the geyropa and mattresses with their greens turned out to be, how many people were frozen there?
      With the second - it is doubtful, only as a temporary measure to gain time for the construction of nuclear power plants and the latest developments based on the atom. Hydroelectric power plants have limits, + you can't put them everywhere, in contrast to the same floating nuclear power plants, which already exist and are working.
    2. Motorist
      Motorist 24 September 2021 20: 12
      +3
      Quote: evgen1221
      Who will forbid us to heat and drive on wood inside the country then?

      Firewood is just the most "green" fuel: carbon dioxide is taken from the atmosphere and returned there. Pure online energy of the Sun!
  5. prior
    prior 24 September 2021 15: 37
    +9
    With green energy, everything is exactly the same as with an increase in ambient temperature.
    It is obvious to everyone that it is cooler in the forest than in the open space. But forests are being cut down mercilessly and at the same time they are screaming about global warming.
    So maybe instead of any environmental taxes, it is necessary to plant trees on the entire planet? You look oxygen will be added, the temperature will drop.
    So it is with energy. Consumption is growing exponentially, naturally, there are no landfills and no power plants to fill up.
    Who stands up for windmills, but the one who produces them.
    Here, however, you have to think a lot ...
    1. Crowe
      Crowe 24 September 2021 16: 12
      +12
      - Don Quixote was the enemy of progress, he opposed the development of alternative energy sources.
      - Why do you think so?
      - He constantly fought with wind turbines.
    2. Motorist
      Motorist 24 September 2021 20: 24
      +3
      Quote: prior
      So maybe instead of any environmental taxes, it is necessary to plant trees on the entire planet? You look oxygen will be added

      How is it?! Oxygen will be added until the carbon dioxide in the atmosphere runs out. Then the weak trees themselves will die and the balance will be restored again. If there are only trees on the planet, of course, i.e. no ocean or volcanoes. A person does not count, so - seeds.
  6. Magnat231
    Magnat231 24 September 2021 16: 09
    +7
    Yes, what green energy, like electric cars, you see how much shit is thrown into the atmosphere during the manufacture of batteries, then solar panels, production is also dirty, it's just that they decided to cut money in the world of dough, I would build another nuclear power plant in place of Russia, there is a price kilowatt is the cheapest, and when everything and everything starts to freeze, sell in three roads
  7. Basarev
    Basarev 24 September 2021 16: 35
    +7
    I started with an oil needle and ended up with green energy. Although, in fact, these are different things. It is not necessary to fight against thermal power plants, at least not now, there are more important things. And with the absolute dependence of the economy on the export of raw materials and oil and gas personally. And not a word about this in the article.
  8. bandabas
    bandabas 24 September 2021 16: 50
    +3
    Lilliputians rule. Led by a hydrant. Quarantined.
  9. Ross xnumx
    Ross xnumx 24 September 2021 16: 50
    +3
    And it is not for nothing that one of the leading employees of the G.M.Krizhanovsky Energy Institute, Georgy Zarochentsev, when he was put on the table in the early 2000s to split RAO UES into dozens of wholesale and generating companies, immediately exclaimed:
    "This is not reform, this is robbery!"

    A related topic and there are no questions here.
    Who will go first
    In principle, they were the first to go, and for a very long time - hydropower, nuclear engineers and developers ...

    And Chubais was supposed to go first, and on this one could put a fat point on the alternative of transformations in RAO UES. But no, the volume pumped out of the energy facilities of the USSR is several times lower than the volume of appropriations for their reconstruction and modernization.
    As for the nuclear power plant, the "Russian hero of nuclear energy" retrained in the air without fulfilling his promises ...
    ==========
    You need to figure out where trillions of rubles go for electricity, the average cost of kW / h of which varies between 0,5-1,5 rubles? And this will continue to DOCOLE when kilowatts in the unified power system have a price range from 1,17 to 8,5 rubles
    1. Ross xnumx
      Ross xnumx 24 September 2021 17: 12
      +3
      Here is another task for the production of electricity in Russia:
      The indicator eventually reached 1 trillion 63,5 billion kWh. With regard to electricity consumption, in the reporting month, volumes increased by 2,4 percent to 105 billion kWh, and according to data for 2020, the figure dropped by 2,3 percent and amounted to 1 trillion 50 billion kWh.

      Can anyone say where, to whom and at what price these unused 13 billion kWh went? If anyone has any assumptions about transformation losses, you can keep them to yourself.
      Most of the equipment for hydroelectric power plants, state district power plants, thermal power plants is over 40 years old. How many capacities have been commissioned in Russia over the past 30 years? Has Russia reached the level of the 90s in electricity production?
      1. Intruder
        Intruder 24 September 2021 18: 58
        +1
        to tell where, to whom and at what price these unused 13 billion kWh went? If anyone has any assumptions about transformation losses, you can keep them to yourself.
        Southeast Asia and China, by the way ... where did the energy go from the early 00s from the Siberian and Far Eastern hydroelectric power plants (I remembered Bureyskaya hydroelectric power station ..., I just have my first test, I plowed there, in the 00s, at launch and restoration), just about it was forgotten by almost everyone and everywhere !!!
  10. 75 Sergey
    75 Sergey 24 September 2021 16: 54
    +7
    The market is a war of attrition between the consumer and the seller.
    As soon as there are any rules of the game between the seller and the buyer, the market immediately turns into a planned economy.
  11. alstr
    alstr 24 September 2021 17: 00
    +7
    In fact, the main problem of energy (green or not) is not environmental pollution. Although this is also important.
    The main problem is huge losses during storage and transportation of this energy to the end consumer.
    Typical losses are at least 10% percent, but in reality they reach 30%.
    Those. 30% (well, not 30, but all 20% for sure) of the entire generation flies into the pipe

    Therefore, no new generation options will save the father of Russian democracy.
    1. Blackmokona
      Blackmokona 24 September 2021 17: 30
      +7
      It is almost never stored, and losses in normal networks are one to two percent per thousand kilometers of transmission. Just don't keep the nets left from the time of the king of the peas, but modernize
      1. Intruder
        Intruder 24 September 2021 19: 00
        0
        do not keep the nets left from the time of the king of the peas, but modernize
        At whose expense, this banquet with modernization !? Again, the growth of tariffs for a poor Russian physicist and individual entrepreneur !?
        1. Blackmokona
          Blackmokona 24 September 2021 19: 45
          +3
          This is an investment that will later save a lot of money, less losses, fewer accidents
  12. Cheerock
    Cheerock 24 September 2021 17: 21
    +8
    1. The author shows some very interesting graphs:
    - in the first graph, the structure of the production of ALL electricity in the Russian Federation in the amount of 1895 billion kW * h;
    - in the second graph - the structure of production of ONLY renewable energy in some countries in the amount of 40% to 4% of the total volume, which is produced in the Russian Federation.
    Consider, for example, Germany, where everything is already littered with wind turbines and renewable energy producers two years ago asked to change legislation in order to install wind turbines closer than 200 meters to residential buildings.
    The entire volume of renewable energy according to the schedule is 126 terawatts or slightly less than SEVEN PERCENT of the volume of energy produced in the Russian Federation. In 2020, Germany has already received more from renewable energy sources - 182 terawatts, but this is less than TEN percent of the energy produced in the Russian Federation and almost FORTY percent of the energy produced in Germany. That is, in order to achieve the share of renewable energy sources in our energy production, as it is in Germany, we need to invest FOUR TIMES MORE money than Germany has invested over the past ten years.
    The story of what happens to the energy market when the wind stops blowing and the sun is covered by clouds is a separate funny song, accompanied by a sharp rise in gas and coal prices.
    Just for reference: since the beginning of the year, the price of gas has quadrupled. The price of coal has tripled. The shortage of coal on the world markets today is about 4-3 million tons per month, and there is a sharp shortage of thermal coal. The margins of coal-fired generation in Germany are now three times higher than the margins of gas-fired generation and are heading into space even after all the horse carbon taxes have been paid.
    And it was only necessary to close coal thermal power plants around Beijing so that China was allowed to host the Winter Olympics good
    1. Avior
      Avior 24 September 2021 18: 40
      +4
      The story of what happens to the energy market when the wind stops blowing and the sun is covered by clouds is a separate funny song, accompanied by a sharp rise in gas and coal prices.

      in this case, the hydroelectric generators are switched on - they are designed to cover peak loads
      1. Cheerock
        Cheerock 24 September 2021 19: 12
        +4
        Quote: Avior
        The story of what happens to the energy market when the wind stops blowing and the sun is covered by clouds is a separate funny song, accompanied by a sharp rise in gas and coal prices.

        in this case, the hydroelectric generators are switched on - they are designed to cover peak loads

        Who told you such nonsense? In your opinion, the rest of the time the owners of the hydroelectric power station stop the turbines and sit and wait - when will the wind end to start selling energy to the grids? good
        The share of hydropower in Germany is about 3%, firstly, it will not physically cover the fall that occurs on calm and cloudy days, and secondly, no capitalist will turn off a power plant that should bring money.
        What actually looks like what happens when renewable energy sources die:

        This is the structure of gas and coal generation by day. When the charts go below zero, the wind is blowing and the sun is shining. When the peaks go up, there is no wind, no sun. when there is no wind and no sun, gas and coal CHPPs turn out to be a plus and fry at full capacity, and no hydroelectric power plants.
        Now we are looking at what happens when the price of gas and coal rise dramatically.

        Guess how much electricity cost in Germany in February? € 33 per megawatt. In England it was 36 euros. This February. Before the structure of gas consumers changed slightly in the world.
        1. Avior
          Avior 25 September 2021 09: 16
          0
          Who told you such nonsense?

          Stupidity is what you wrote. The possible operating time of a hydroelectric power station is determined by the water supply in the reservoir, and not by the wishes of the owners. On flat rivers, the water supply is not enough for permanent work. Therefore, power system dispatchers - there are such, if you are not aware - use them as peak ones. The peculiarity of the hydraulic units is the minimum start-up time - a few minutes, or even tens of seconds. No other unit can start in a short time to ensure peak coverage and maintain grid stability.
          hi
          1. Cheerock
            Cheerock 25 September 2021 14: 58
            0
            Quote: Avior
            Who told you such nonsense?

            Stupidity is what you wrote. The possible operating time of a hydroelectric power station is determined by the water supply in the reservoir, and not by the wishes of the owners.

            Bingo dear don! hi
            Therefore, every summer in the specialized press there are such messages for different countries as for example:
            Hydro reserves in Spain have fallen to 60% of total capacity over the past nine weeks, coinciding with a sharp drop in the country's hydropower generation.

            A hot and dry summer led to a sharp fall in Spain's water reserves to 34,051 cubic hectometers from 42,014 cubic hectometers two months ago, according to data from the ministry of energy.

            In July, Spanish hydro generation declined 17% month on month and is expected to fall further as water reserves shrink.

            Meanwhile, coal-fired generation remains 25% higher month on month, around the same levels as last year at 2.09 TWh.

            Briefly translating: water reserves in the reservoirs of Spain fell by 60% due to the hot summer. In July, hydroelectricity declined 17% month-on-month and is expected to decline further due to reduced water supplies. Coal generation, on the contrary, increased by 25% compared to the previous month ...
            That is, we have the following picture - there is water - hydroelectric power plants are generating. There is no water - they do not generate and their subsidence is covered by coal and gas generation. As well as coal and gas generation, the drawdown for all other renewable energy sources is covered.
            Therefore, power system dispatchers - there are such, if you are not aware - use them as peak ones. The peculiarity of the hydraulic units is the minimum start-up time - a few minutes, or even tens of seconds. No other unit can start in a short time to ensure peak coverage and maintain grid stability.

            Hay and straw. I tell you what happens when the wind does not blow and the sun is low for several weeks. You tell me about when a drawdown occurs in the network for an hour or two. And in general - about another country. A 3% capacity cannot insure a 40% capacity purely physically. This is what we are now seeing in England, for example, with the rise in electricity prices ten (!) Times.
            hi
  13. rocket757
    rocket757 24 September 2021 17: 24
    +2
    Features of the national energy transition
    ... So there is no need to rush, to do everything reasonably and according to plan!
    Oh, yes, drive the red devil away, otherwise he will turn up the business and rob ... Leah, if you give your mind a broom and send it to the wind, that is, catch the wind ...
  14. tralflot1832
    tralflot1832 24 September 2021 17: 30
    +1
    And why in Europe the countries with the most developed so-called renewable energy have the highest tariffs? And why, if this year alternative energy in Europe has produced more electricity than "dirty" energy, they stuck to our gas.
    1. Cheerock
      Cheerock 24 September 2021 19: 44
      +2
      Quote: tralflot1832
      And why in Europe the countries with the most developed so-called renewable energy have the highest tariffs? And why, if this year alternative energy in Europe has produced more electricity than "dirty" energy, they stuck to our gas.

      Because they believed that there would be enough gas for everyone.
      1. tralflot1832
        tralflot1832 24 September 2021 20: 30
        0
        They were not disappointed with gas. Gazprom controls only a little more than 30% of the gas market. Where are the Norwegians with their gas, the British with gas from the North Sea and the Poles with the European new gas hub? Israeli gas liquefied in Egypt. Azerbaijan with its 10 billion We have a long winter, we need to heat our own. It will cost 183 billion from Gazprom. hi
  15. antiaircrafter
    antiaircrafter 24 September 2021 18: 08
    +7
    Features of the national energy transition

    As we used renewable firewood, we will use it!
    And for nothing we don’t need your energy transition!
    1. Intruder
      Intruder 24 September 2021 19: 03
      +1

      As we used renewable firewood, we will use it!
      They are renewed for a long time, though, from 10-15 years and more, but for now, only water, coal and gas with oil and a few "uranium fuel rods" and even then, not everywhere !? wink
    2. bk0010
      bk0010 25 September 2021 00: 12
      0
      Quote: antiaircrafter
      As we used renewable firewood, we will use it!
      Are you chugging or violating? Only dead wood is allowed!
      1. antiaircrafter
        antiaircrafter 27 September 2021 20: 10
        0
        We are booming of course.
  16. Aurel
    Aurel 24 September 2021 20: 36
    -1
    The fish rots from the head.
  17. Ryaruav
    Ryaruav 24 September 2021 21: 45
    +2
    all this greenery - half the world is starving, well, where is the massive aid from corporations, full of bullshit, capitalism, however
  18. Yarik
    Yarik 25 September 2021 00: 39
    +1
    There is not a word in the article about the fact that all the energy sector in Russia, thanks to Chubais, now does NOT belong to our country.
  19. the same doctor
    the same doctor 25 September 2021 09: 04
    +2
    Green energy transition means a requirement for us to build green capacities that will be idle 80% of the time and contain reserve capacities equal to the maximum energy consumption of conventional energy. This is not so scary: real prices for mechanical engineering are falling and will continue to fall, and renewable energy sources will give at least some savings in oil and gas. But not for our country.
    The West imposes on us the energy transition on its equipment. For the purchase of this equipment, we will give oil and gas several times more than all these wind turbines will save. Therefore, until we manufacture ALL equipment for wind farms ourselves without any royalties to the West, it is more profitable for us to burn oil and gas than to build wind turbines.
  20. VasYok
    VasYok 25 September 2021 09: 28
    0
    And what is the actual problem? The energy transition only threatens the loss of foreign exchange earnings for exporters of oil and gas. And the shortfall in revenues to the budget of the country and export companies will be compensated by the people of Russia at the expense of taxes and excise taxes. We cannot afford to let our oligarchs begin to live worse than those in the West.
    By the way. And who or what can force Russia to change the structure of power generation?
    1. Alexey Kurilov_4
      Alexey Kurilov_4 25 September 2021 13: 06
      0
      so that the people can compensate for the loss of foreign exchange earnings of the main fillers of the country's budget, the people must first be given money from the country's budget. The energy transition will result in loss of revenue to the COUNTRY!
      1. VasYok
        VasYok 12 October 2021 20: 01
        -2
        people first need to give money from the country's budget

        This is contrary to the country's genocidal policy.
  21. Non-fighter
    Non-fighter 25 September 2021 11: 18
    0
    To begin with, we know very little about electricity and do not know how to store it on an industrial scale for reasonable money.
    Consequences: until we learn how to do this, it is better not to remember about all kinds of wind and solar power plants, because for each such power plant you need to have a reserve capacity aka TPP that can support. Otherwise, we will get a lockdown like it was in Texas and Australia. But the problem is that I do not believe that a thermal power plant operating 1-2 hours a day 10 months a year and constantly 2 months a year will be profitable.
    Small hydroelectric power plants are the only thing worth developing. After solving the fundamental problems with electricity storage, you can think of an alternative.
  22. bubla5
    bubla5 25 September 2021 12: 19
    0
    If you want to instantly destroy the economy and throw society back, at the first long-term cataclysm, switch to green energy
    1. Vadim237
      Vadim237 25 September 2021 16: 25
      0
      Russia will not switch to it at breakneck speed - everything will be developed: hydroelectric power plants, nuclear power plants, state district power plants, TPPs, thermal power plants and all the others.
  23. Alexey Kurilov_4
    Alexey Kurilov_4 25 September 2021 12: 45
    +1
    how freezing rains will go in winter due to climate warming, wow! During the day it will rain, and at night it will catch ice on the blades and solar panels.
  24. Iskazi
    Iskazi 25 September 2021 14: 30
    0
    the author could not express the thoughts overwhelming him ..., some kind of nonsense, fierce graphomaniac ...
  25. ignatevnikolaj5
    ignatevnikolaj5 26 September 2021 09: 56
    0
    all this is a chimera, but it will be as the Lord will establish, or rather established.
  26. Borisych
    Borisych 26 September 2021 12: 46
    0
    I didn't really understand anything, I only realized that Minister Belousov is not very energetic, and does not want to learn from the mistakes of the Sunset Civilization. Then let him go to Chubais. For advice.
  27. Sfurei
    Sfurei 27 September 2021 21: 20
    +2
    Gentlemen, Candidates of Economic Sciences, who awarded you these titles? Which article I read and nonsense, and populism, and laughter and all in a heap !! In your big numbers, have you forgotten how to count to five correctly, or do not know how to multiply by two?
    Quotes:
    1. '... now we have a kilowatt at least three times more expensive than in the early 2000s ...“And what surprises you? 20 years have passed, with average inflation even at 5%, this is more than 100% of price increases over 20 years .. What are you pulling by the ears? And what are you trying to say with these loud statements?
    2. "...As you can see, since 2014, prices per kilowatt have almost doubled, .."If you have a hard time calculating, take a calculator. Stop publishing nonsense. Let's look at your diagram: tariffs have grown by about 49-54% (from 2,4 to 3,7, from 2,7 to 4,0), for the population even less than 1,5 times, from 2014, but not "..almost twice ..".
    I didn’t even bother to read it further, because I think that "... from this beginning they do not do business .." You obviously, as economists, do not pull the suit. One disorder. ((
  28. Mikhail3
    Mikhail3 30 September 2021 09: 48
    0
    Just don’t flatter yourself right away.
    What shouldn't I do ?! Author...
    The so-called "energy transition" is something indescribable. The words with which it should be described cannot be used on the site. We'll have to use analogies.
    Remember the French queen who advised the poor peasants who had no money for bread to switch to cakes? So here we are offered to switch not to cakes, but to a stew of nightingale tongues, by the whole country. Where do we get money for such food, and where do we get so many nightingales? In principle, these questions do not bother bumpers in tucked-up pants, since they are far beyond the horizon of their scanty little minds.
    In general, they wrote enough about "green energy", and if a representative of the association of these scammers found somewhere "even cheaper" wind turbine energy, then obviously in the same path that he sniffed before the interview. Let's remember the now fashionable hydrogen. What is he?
    Energy source? But no. This methane is an energy source, because energy is already in it, and we are just producing it. And hydrogen in a free state is extremely small. Of course, it can be found in methane deposits and separated by extremely expensive technologies, but the weather will not do that. So what is hydrogen?
    Here's what. Hydrogen is wires. That is, we produce electricity, and instead of driving it through wires, we convert it into hydrogen. In the process of translation, we lose about half of the energy produced for this very translation. Instead of heating houses, smelting metals, and turning on computers, we use half of the energy we produce to waste. We then transport this hydrogen somewhere far away, losing about half of the produced hydrogen due to its fluidity. Then ... and then we burn hydrogen in a thermal power plant, losing 40% of the energy to a cold source! Count yourself how much energy we frankly and fantastically stupidly lost!
    This is all some kind of incredible, amazing, senseless nonsense, when I see that a lot of people are being led to it, I'm just dumbfounded. How can you be so brainless ?! And by the way. And who offers us all this? Aren't they the guys who lost the economic competition to a socialist country, and every year lose their importance as advanced economies? Who will soon have nothing to pay not only for insane and senseless energy transitions, but also for many other things? WHY do they fool our heads? What's the purpose? Hehe ...
    1. agond
      agond 4 October 2021 19: 55
      0
      Quote: Mikhail3
      We then transport this hydrogen somewhere far away, losing about half of the produced hydrogen due to its fluidity.

      Yes, this is, it is really interesting what pressure will be in the pipes, because hydrogen evaporates through the smallest pores, it is much more difficult to transport it, it even needs others to compressors, not to mention the problem of sealing pipelines with a length of a thousand kilometers.