Military Review

"State tests completed": "Almaz-Antey" began deliveries of S-500 "Prometheus" air defense systems to the troops

88
"State tests completed": "Almaz-Antey" began deliveries of S-500 "Prometheus" air defense systems to the troops

The newest anti-aircraft missile system S-500 "Prometheus" went to the troops, the concern "Almaz-Antey" began supplying the complexes. This was announced by Deputy Prime Minister Yuri Borisov.


Borisov answered a number of questions from journalists at the Tyumen Oil and Gas Forum, including those concerning the new Russian anti-aircraft system. According to him, the S-500 air defense system has completed state tests and has already begun to be supplied to the troops. Moreover, the complex is not yet supplied in a full configuration, but in a truncated one. The Deputy Prime Minister declined to disclose details.

State tests have just been completed and the first deliveries of this complex have begun. And that is still not in the full nomenclature that Almaz-Antey should make at the request of the customer.

- he said.

Answering the question of a journalist, which country can become the first buyer of the new anti-aircraft system, Borisov suggested that India, but immediately made a reservation that only potentially. Currently, the question of selling the S-500 abroad is not an issue, the primary task is to saturate the Russian troops with new complexes.

Information about the conclusion of the first contract for the supply of S-500 air defense systems appeared at the end of July this year. Then it was reported that the Ministry of Defense ordered "the supply of more than 10 S-500 anti-aircraft missile systems." In early August, the serial production of missiles for the S-500 began.

According to available information, the minimum set of equipment for the S-500 "Prometheus" will consist of a combat command post with an automatic control system (ACS), a radar complex, a multifunctional "illumination" radar and up to 12 anti-aircraft missile launchers based on Russian or Belarusian-made tractors. ...
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  1. Terrible_L.
    Terrible_L. 16 September 2021 14: 10
    +45
    The S-500 air defense system has completed state tests and has already begun to be supplied to the troops

    Urrraaa! This is great news !!!
    News that is being implemented in practice, not planned in theory!
    1. Uncle lee
      Uncle lee 16 September 2021 14: 22
      +18
      the primary task is to saturate the Russian troops with new complexes.
      And it is right ! good
      1. Machito
        Machito 16 September 2021 14: 24
        +11
        Quote: Uncle Lee
        the primary task is to saturate the Russian troops with new complexes.
        And it is right ! good

        Get a fascist grenade
        From a Soviet soldier. soldier
        1. Uncle lee
          Uncle lee 16 September 2021 14: 26
          +2
          Halfundra Fritz!
          A grenade will snatch you! soldier
    2. antivirus
      antivirus 16 September 2021 16: 57
      -4
      which is carried out in practice, and not planned theoretically!

      \\\\ --- THIS IS THE PRIORITIES OF THE MILITARY BUILDING IN RUSSIA - NOT 10 AV FOR 100 000 VI. TO TIMOKHIN AND KLIMOV, AND ANDREY FROM CH. FOR NOTE AND FOR EXECUTION FROM THE CHIEF

      and they don't give me any cons - they are immediately forwarded to Borisov and the Commander-in-Chief
  2. seti
    seti 16 September 2021 14: 10
    +1
    If there are only two missiles in one launcher, then this is not enough. I would like 4 as in the S-400.
    1. Fungus
      Fungus 16 September 2021 14: 13
      +17
      So the rocket is longer and will reach the satellites. Therefore, the rules.
      1. For example
        For example 16 September 2021 14: 26
        +20
        Quote: seti
        I would like 4

        Doctor, do you have any pills for greed? Give me, yes, more! wassat
    2. Lesorub
      Lesorub 16 September 2021 14: 31
      +9
      Quote: seti
      If there are only two missiles in one launcher, then this is not enough. I would like 4 as in the S-400.

      Overall visibility - the complex will include missiles of different ranges.
      1. Kuz
        Kuz 16 September 2021 15: 26
        +29
        Quote: Lesorub
        Overall visibility - the complex will include missiles of different ranges

        Not only. The complex itself is part of a layered system with other types
    3. Aaron Zawi
      Aaron Zawi 16 September 2021 14: 45
      +13
      Quote: seti
      If there are only two missiles in one launcher, then this is not enough. I would like 4 as in the S-400.

      The S-500 is, of course, primarily not an air defense system, but a missile defense system.
      1. neri73-r
        neri73-r 16 September 2021 15: 07
        +8
        Quote: Aron Zaavi
        The S-500 is, of course, primarily not an air defense system, but a missile defense system.

        Apparently yes. But it will work in a unified air defense system, it's just a distant hand.
    4. Piramidon
      Piramidon 16 September 2021 15: 27
      +10
      Quote: seti
      If there are only two missiles in one launcher, then this is not enough. I would like 4 as in the S-400.

      For every such news, there is always such laughing
      1. Boris ⁣ Shaver
        Boris ⁣ Shaver 18 September 2021 02: 42
        -1
        Quote: Piramidon
        For every such news, there is always such

        And the country is not small either. Our borders are 60 thousand kilometers long. So far, one launcher is half a thousand kilometers out (it is clear that this is not serious, but let's just estimate it to understand the scale).
    5. Volkof
      Volkof 16 September 2021 21: 21
      +4
      So the S-500 controls both the S-400, the S-300 and the S-350, what's the question? This is the latest network-centric system that provides the exchange of data and target designation in real time in air defense ... It must be fully mastered in all modes, especially with a generalized configuration ...
    6. old grandfather
      old grandfather 17 September 2021 12: 03
      -1
      I would like the same, but with mother-of-pearl buttons ...
    7. eehnie
      eehnie 18 September 2021 13: 14
      -3
      The S-500 is unlikely to be alone. Very likely will have smaller range air defense systems around in enough amounts for air defense saturation.
  3. Doccor18
    Doccor18 16 September 2021 14: 11
    +1
    Borisov suggested that it was India, but immediately made a reservation that it was only potentially.

    Potentially, the PRC.
    1. Normann
      Normann 16 September 2021 16: 39
      +2
      They won't be sold, at least not yet.
      1. Doccor18
        Doccor18 16 September 2021 16: 42
        +2
        China was the first foreign customer for the S-400 (two regimental kits have already been delivered).
        So why won't the S-500 be sold? Under capitalism money rules. And the unique S-500 air defense systems will be very expensive ...
        1. Normann
          Normann 16 September 2021 17: 08
          +3
          These are the latest systems, and no one will hand over such developments to a potential enemy. (They have just begun to be produced) Maybe in a much more truncated version ...
    2. ccsr
      ccsr 16 September 2021 20: 21
      0
      Quote: Doccor18
      Potentially, the PRC.

      This is a controversial issue, if only because the S-500 itself is a complex of strategic deterrence and at the same time affects the satellite control system of the enemy's strategic forces, and not the operational level in terms of capabilities like the S-400. And this may be the basis for the fact that for many years it will not be supplied abroad at all. Or it will be delivered in such a truncated form that it will not differ much from the S-400 in terms of capabilities.
      1. Volkof
        Volkof 16 September 2021 21: 23
        0
        What is this nonsense? The S-500 controls all systems if necessary ... This is its uniqueness ... The first deliveries of such a combination does not yet imply, let the military master the system itself, figure it out, and then put systems that ensure interaction and exchange of information ... This is what they have in view of when talking about a truncated configuration ... This is still a big piece of work and testing ...
        1. ccsr
          ccsr 17 September 2021 12: 32
          -3
          Quote: Volkof
          What is this nonsense? The S-500 controls all systems if necessary ... This is its uniqueness ... The first deliveries of such a combination does not yet imply, let the military master the system itself, figure it out, and then install systems that ensure interaction and information exchange ..

          The one who does not know what a secrecy regime is for new developments, especially those concerning strategic weapons, is raving. Anyone who has come across this knows that even during the Soviet era, the topic of strategic developments for other types and types of the Armed Forces was not available. Given the capabilities of the S-500, I think that the question is not about the development of it by the military, but much deeper and concerns the secrets of design developments.
          1. Denis812
            Denis812 17 September 2021 19: 50
            +1
            as they sold С400, they can sell С500. But the fact is that now it is not the 90s-00s and the Russian Federation has money, so there is no need to sell right now.
            And the C400 still needs to be sold to a bunch of countries.
            From a marketing point of view, of course, a cant. They would call it S-410 and say that it is exclusively for the Russian Federation. And now, well, who will buy 400 complexes, if the Russian Federation is already making the 500th.
            Mowers
            1. ccsr
              ccsr 17 September 2021 20: 29
              -2
              Quote: Denis812
              And now, well, who will buy 400 complexes, if the Russian Federation is already making the 500th.
              Mowers

              First, you do not know the prices of these products.
              Secondly, you do not know how long and at what level it is necessary to prepare combat crews, which may require a completely different level than it is in the more backward countries of the world.
              Third, not all small countries need to shoot down satellites or nuclear-armed ICBMs.
              Fourthly, we do not sell Tu-160 to anyone for the combination of the three above reasons, although there would be buyers for this plane.
              Make a conclusion yourself.
              1. Denis812
                Denis812 17 September 2021 20: 42
                0
                1. Do you know? Please share.
                2. It doesn't matter. Preparation of the calculation is a service and is also estimated in monetary and time equivalent.
                3. Not everyone. but, for example, S. Korea or Iran would be happy. Is not it so?
                4. Tu-160 is a strategic bomber. Carrier of nuclear weapons. You do not see the difference between an offensive strategic bomber and a defensive (in fact) missile defense system? :)))))
                1. ccsr
                  ccsr 17 September 2021 20: 52
                  -2
                  Quote: Denis812
                  1. Do you know? Please share.

                  This is a military secret, which is why no one will tell you. But judging by the possibilities, the difference can be multiple, and not everyone can afford such a price.
                  Quote: Denis812
                  2. It doesn't matter. Preparation of the calculation is a service and is also estimated in monetary and time equivalent.

                  It also has a very large number, especially if the crews will have to consist of at least graduates of military schools with a small number of specialists with secondary technical education.
                  Quote: Denis812
                  3. Not everyone. but, for example, S. Korea or Iran would be happy. Is not it so?

                  Do they have any opportunities - have you ever thought about it?
                  Quote: Denis812
                  4. Tu-160 is a strategic bomber. Carrier of nuclear weapons. You do not see the difference between an offensive strategic bomber and a defensive (in fact) missile defense system? :)))))

                  You still have not understood that it is not about offensive or defensive weapons, but about secret technologies, and we cannot throw them around. Well, if no one has such technologies in the world, then selling them means that we are digging our own grave. At least think about this when the issue of the country's defense is concerned.
                  1. Denis812
                    Denis812 17 September 2021 21: 57
                    0
                    1. So you don't know. If you don’t know, why are you appealing to something you don’t know?
                    2. Once again, the crew is just a product. It can be prepared. It's a matter of timing and dough. It is bought and sold.
                    3. They have no opportunities, that's why I said what they would like. What is the problem? :)
                    4. You did not understand that there are technologies of the C300 type, which were sold by the C400, which sell both the Tu-160 and nuclear weapons, which are NOT selling.
                    Please understand that there are critical and non-critical technologies.
                    If the Russian Federation had not sold hundreds of Su-30s at one time, there would probably not have been either the Su-35 or the Su-57 and so on.
                    Although at that time the Russian Federation did not have a Su-30. However, they sold it for export and did it CORRECTLY - in order to SURVIVE.
                    And now - it is necessary to keep only what is really strategically important.
                    And the cut-down air defenses - why not sell them?
                    If we do not sell them, then Old Man will merge or some other India.
                    1. ccsr
                      ccsr 18 September 2021 13: 14
                      -2
                      Quote: Denis812
                      1. So you don't know. If you don’t know, why are you appealing to something you don’t know?

                      On the contrary, I just know how the pricing of military equipment takes place, unlike you.
                      Quote: Denis812
                      2. Once again, the crew is just a product. It can be prepared. It's a matter of timing and dough. It is bought and sold.

                      Nonsense, because it may require an officer's calculations with a special higher education, and those who buy, simply will not have them. This means that many years will pass until they train the necessary specialists, and it is not a fact that the buyer will have time and money for this.
                      Quote: Denis812
                      4. You did not understand that there are technologies of the C300 type, which were sold by the C400, which sell both the Tu-160 and nuclear weapons, which are NOT selling.

                      You did not understand that the S-500 is being prepared as an element of the strategic armed forces, in contrast to the previous air defense technology.
                      Quote: Denis812
                      If the Russian Federation had not sold hundreds of Su-30s at one time, there would probably not have been either the Su-35 or the Su-57 and so on.

                      Do not screw up nonsense - these aircraft are not strategic, which is why they were sold.
                      Quote: Denis812
                      And now - it is necessary to keep only what is really strategically important.

                      Who told you that the S-500 is not suitable for this? According to their capabilities, they become elements of missile defense, and not air defense.
            2. Winnie76
              Winnie76 18 September 2021 12: 25
              0
              Quote: Denis812
              From a marketing point of view, of course, a cant. They would call it S-410 and say that it is exclusively for the Russian Federation. And now, well, who will buy 400 complexes, if the Russian Federation is already making the 500th.

              Yes. And who will buy the T-14 when there is a T-55. A jamb on a jamb and a jamb drives
  4. Sidor Amenpodestovich
    Sidor Amenpodestovich 16 September 2021 14: 11
    +16
    The newest anti-aircraft missile system S-500 "Prometheus" went to the troops, the concern "Almaz-Antey" began supplying the complexes. This was announced by Deputy Prime Minister Yuri Borisov.

    As you wish, dear colleagues, and I will drink to it.
    Moreover, the complex is not yet supplied in a full configuration, but in a truncated one.

    Without fanaticism.
    1. Machito
      Machito 16 September 2021 14: 25
      +11
      I agree.
      Again there is no reason not to drink. drinks good
  5. Retvizan 8
    Retvizan 8 16 September 2021 14: 12
    +6
    Good news .
  6. Zaurbek
    Zaurbek 16 September 2021 14: 14
    +3
    We need an article with diagrams and pictures .... How the C500 division was built. Otherwise, there is no clarity. This is also a missile defense system and a "head" for the integration of C400 and C350. Or an independent complex with missiles of various types? And does it have integration with AWACS and fighter radars?
    1. Terrible_L.
      Terrible_L. 16 September 2021 14: 17
      +11
      Maybe someday they will show it in the report of some First Channel. During some important and possibly even secret meeting. With all the calculations. Briefly. By chance. wink
    2. OgnennyiKotik
      OgnennyiKotik 16 September 2021 14: 35
      +1
      Yes, all information is available.

      For work in the atmosphere, KP 55K6MA, 91N6AM radar, PU 51P6 are used. Uses 40N6M atmospheric rocket, which is also part of the S-400 complex. In fact, this is the modernized S-400.

      For transatmospheric interception, PBU 85Zh6-2, radar 76T6, PU 77P6 are used. The 77N6-N missiles seem to be a continuation of the 9M82MV missiles. Which are part of the S-300V4 complex.
      1. Zaurbek
        Zaurbek 16 September 2021 14: 48
        +3
        those. the S500 has a new radar, missiles for missile defense, BCEVM and integration with third-party complexes: S500, S400, S350, Buk ... and maybe AWACS?
        1. sbuskets
          sbuskets 16 September 2021 20: 26
          +2
          integration is already implemented in c400
  7. tralflot1832
    tralflot1832 16 September 2021 14: 16
    +5
    If we analyze the entire performance, the truncation due to the missile of kinetic interception of warheads. The tests were successful, and now it all needs to be put together. The missile has already gone to the missile defense silos for stationary deployment around Moscow. And the first S500 complex will be delivered near Moscow.
    1. Normann
      Normann 16 September 2021 16: 41
      +1
      And why Nudol?
      1. Piramidon
        Piramidon 16 September 2021 17: 54
        0
        Quote: Normann
        And why Nudol?

        So far, there is no nudol as such. Test runs. And it will most likely be used as an anti-satellite weapon.
      2. sbuskets
        sbuskets 16 September 2021 20: 28
        0
        this is Nudol
  8. rocket757
    rocket757 16 September 2021 14: 16
    +4
    "State tests completed": "Almaz-Antey" began deliveries of S-500 "Prometheus" air defense systems to the troops
    Normally so ... now the next stage, improvements, upgrades, increase in performance characteristics!
  9. g1v2
    g1v2 16 September 2021 14: 18
    +26
    Damn, what's that. belay Good news again. It's time to announce mourning on the site. And where are the stories about saws and "nothing will happen"? Well, nothing, fighters, brace yourself. There will be more bad news that you can enjoy and savor. wink
    And VKS congratulations on an important step in the formation of a nationwide pro. Of all the components, only PU was missing, which could be produced in sufficient quantity and deployed throughout the country. Now they have appeared. And gradually the missile defense shield will become thicker. With which I congratulate everyone. drinks
    1. tralflot1832
      tralflot1832 16 September 2021 14: 24
      +14
      Wait, now they will come running: They don’t feed the tiger in the zoo! And what if the air defense system is fine with us. Now Almaz Antey needs to build a new workshop for the S500! drinks
      1. bk316
        bk316 16 September 2021 14: 49
        +11
        Now Almaz Antey needs to build a new workshop for C500!

        If not the plant. It was the new plant that was built for the s-400.
        1. tralflot1832
          tralflot1832 16 September 2021 15: 00
          +3
          Maybe something from C 400 is compatible with 500? The plant is so, the plant. Contracts for C 400 must be executed.
      2. Paranoid50
        Paranoid50 16 September 2021 23: 35
        +1
        Quote: tralflot1832
        Almaz Antey needs to build a new workshop for C500!

        Duc, already. yes Unfolding in new areas. fellow
  10. Nikolaevich I
    Nikolaevich I 16 September 2021 14: 23
    +4
    The minimum set of equipment for the S-500 "Prometheus" will consist of a combat command post with an automatic control system (ACS), a radar complex, a multifunctional "illumination" radar and up to 12 anti-aircraft missile launchers based on Russian or Belarusian-made tractors. And what is missing in the "soup"? what
    1. tralflot1832
      tralflot1832 16 September 2021 15: 02
      +1
      Maybe warhead interceptor missiles, with kinetic damage? hi
  11. askort154
    askort154 16 September 2021 14: 28
    +12
    "State tests completed": "Almaz-Antey" began deliveries of S-500 "Prometheus" air defense systems to the troops

    Well, another "Russian cartoon" has become a reality.
    There is no need to butt with Russia - since the past centuries.
  12. Kaw
    Kaw 16 September 2021 14: 35
    -3
    I still don't understand what the S-500 is. Previously, they wrote that the complex was supposed to consist of two units, one for firing at atmospheric targets (aircraft, helicopters, drones), the other for firing at space (ballistic missiles, some types of satellites). Now they seem to be writing that the complex shoots only at space targets. In this case, this is not an anti-aircraft complex at all, it is part of a missile defense system, an analogue of the American THAAD
    1. Sergey985
      Sergey985 16 September 2021 15: 24
      +5
      In fact, it is. Each complex (300, 400, 500) partially overlaps the tasks of the previous one. But now there is completely the entire "nesting doll" - from a fighter with MANPADS, to interception in near space.
    2. bayard
      bayard 16 September 2021 15: 43
      +3
      Quote: Kaw
      They used to write,

      They wrote everything correctly, the S-500 is an air defense system for hitting aerodynamic, ballistic and low-orbit targets. Able to use the entire range of SAMs from the S-400 + new anti-missile missiles to destroy ballistic targets and low-orbit satellites. It includes a multifunctional AFAR radar, which is already being re-equipped with the S-400 complexes already in service.
      So this is a jack of all trades. And it will be effective against promising GZUR.
      1. Kaw
        Kaw 16 September 2021 16: 12
        -3
        So, apparently the possibility of firing at aerodynamic targets in it was never done, and therefore "in a truncated form."
        And it's a pity, for the S-500, new missiles with a range of 600 km were supposed to be released. Then he would be on a par with the latest modification of the American Aegis in terms of his capabilities.
        1. bayard
          bayard 16 September 2021 17: 21
          -1
          Quote: Kaw
          So, apparently the possibility of firing at aerodynamic targets in it was never done, and therefore "in a truncated form."

          On the contrary, this option is perhaps the main one for them. Now .

          Quote: Kaw
          And it's a pity, for the S-500, new missiles with a range of 600 km were supposed to be released.

          SAM with a range of 600 km?
          And against what, I apologize, is it possible to use this rocket against?
          If a target flying at an altitude of 10 m becomes visible (rises above the horizon) at a distance of only 000 km. ?
          The earth is round.
          To detect (not shoot down, but only detect) a target at a distance of 600 km, it must fly at an altitude of about 40 km. - not less .
          So such missiles (against aerodynamic high-altitude targets) will be relevant only after the enemy has a GZUR with such a height and range. In the meantime, they have enough missiles from the BK S-400. Plus, of course, anti-missiles.
          That is why the "still truncated configuration".
          And to hit targets beyond the horizon is possible only with the help of illumination / target designation from the AWACS aircraft. We do NOT have such today.
          Quote: Kaw
          Then he would be equal in his capabilities to the latest modification of the American Aegis.

          On the way, he still surpassed him. And the range of interception, and the ability to intercept hypersonic maneuvering targets.
          The naval version of the S-500 radar is likely to be installed on the modernized nuclear-powered missile cruiser Admiral Nakhimov.
          1. Nikolaevich I
            Nikolaevich I 16 September 2021 21: 57
            +1
            Quote: bayard
            SAM with a range of 600 km?
            And against what, I apologize, is it possible to use this rocket against?

            Whatever happens in reality ... we will find out only after a while! But I recall from old messages that it still spoke of the target destruction range of the S-500 complex up to 600 km with a radar with a range of 800 km ... Perhaps Kaw also read these messages ...!
            By the way, such data were reported about the S-400 ...: the range of destruction of targets is -400 km ... the range of the radar is 600 km ...
            1. bayard
              bayard 16 September 2021 22: 44
              +2
              Yes, these are the numbers that have long been voiced and confirmed by tests. I answered the question "what does the truncated configuration of the S-500" supplied to the troops today "mean. It is today that these complexes are equipped with missiles to destroy aerodynamic targets at a distance of 600 km. ... is redundant. For targets for such missiles in nature DO NOT exist YET.
              But they may appear in a few years.
              And if you have them in mind for the destruction of airborne objects beyond the horizon line by EXTERNAL target designation ... which in principle is possible ... then such means of detection / target designation / guidance ... the modern RF does not ... request ... Long-term hopes for the appearance of the A-100 ... and even in the amount of 50 (!!!) pcs. request did not come true.
              There is NOTHING to direct these missiles at a range of more than 400 km today.
              Therefore, they are not needed YET as part of the BC of these complexes.
              But the anti-missile capabilities of this air defense system are very much in demand. And not for additional protection of Moscow (it has its own missile defense system - A-235), but to cover other objects on the territory of the country - the positioning areas of ICBMs, naval bases, large industrial centers, cities with a population of over one million ... nuclear power plants, hydroelectric power plants, etc. NS.
              And if you consider that all the previously supplied S-400s to the troops are now being re-equipped with new multifunctional radars from the S-500 - the very ones with a detection range of up to 800 km. ... with AFAR and the ability for long-term continuous operation ... then we must admit that soon all previously delivered S-400s will acquire almost equal capabilities with the newest S-500s. In addition, of course, the ability to intercept ICBMs and low-flying satellites ... But they will be able to detect and accompany, as well as transmit information about them to higher command posts.
              hi
              1. Nikolaevich I
                Nikolaevich I 17 September 2021 07: 49
                +1
                I understood you ! By the way, the idea that the existing concept for the development of long-range "anti-aircraft" air defense systems has exhausted itself and does not correspond to the conditions of modern war has long been "creeping" into my head ... Further development of anti-aircraft missile systems should go along 2 "directions" ...: the creation of "autonomous" systems, the air defense systems will acquire their own over-the-horizon radar detection means, self-defense means ... 1. The air defense systems will become completely network-centric and will not be able to "work" 2% without the support of the "network-centric environment" ...
                1. bayard
                  bayard 17 September 2021 15: 42
                  +2
                  Quote: Nikolaevich I
                  By the way, the idea that the existing concept of the development of long-range "anti-aircraft" air defense systems has exhausted itself and does not correspond to the conditions of modern war has long been "creeping" into my head.

                  To hit targets on the far edge of the detection zone with their own means, the S-200 complexes of the latest modifications came out a long time ago, the curvature of the earth does not allow further development of long-range characteristics. It is possible to use external target designation and guidance (by AWACS aircraft), but ... air defense fighters accompanying these AWACS aircraft can do it even better. Therefore, it is best to push back the lines of missile interception by the forces of fighter aircraft when controlling / targeting specialized radar control and control aircraft.
                  Quote: Nikolaevich I
                  1. When creating "autonomous" systems, air defense systems will acquire their own over-the-horizon radar detection equipment, self-defense equipment ...

                  The fact is that ZGRLS have an operating frequency range - decameter (from 10 m and more, usually up to 30 - 40 m), so the accuracy of such systems is extremely ... low. For target designation, and even more so for guidance, such stations are not suitable in principle, they can be used as stations for detecting threats and warning. After that, the AWACS aircraft and fighters should rise, detect and aim the fighters on the target.
                  For stationary air defense systems, such ZGRLS can be useful in that, having timely revealed a threat from a specific direction, they announce the alarm, readiness No. 1 and air defense systems await their legitimate targets while staying in a full BG even before targets enter the detection zone by their own means.
                  Quote: Nikolaevich I
                  2. Air defense systems will become completely network-centric and will not be able to "work" 100% without the support of a "network-centric environment" ...

                  This is a new term, but the fact is that in the USSR the most advanced air defense system of the country was created in the world, which was a "network-centric structure". I served in this system as an officer in the combat command of an air defense formation. In fact, ACS systems, radars, communications are being updated now, but the system itself, its structure and combat algorithms have been created a long time ago.
                  You just need to RESTORE the country's air defense system according to the Soviet model, but on a new technical and material basis.
                  1. Nikolaevich I
                    Nikolaevich I 17 September 2021 16: 09
                    +1
                    Quote: bayard
                    When creating "autonomous" systems, air defense systems will acquire their own over-the-horizon radar detection equipment, self-defense equipment ...

                    The fact is that ZGRLS have an operating frequency range - decameter (from 10 m and more, usually up to 30 - 40 m), so the accuracy of such systems is extremely ... low. For target designation, and even more so for guidance, such stations are not suitable in principle ...

                    But I did not mean the existing type of ground-based ZGRLS! Now, to increase the range of radar detection and guidance, various types of "towers" are used ... As an alternative to "towers" I offer tethered unmanned multicopters with AFAR ... non-tethered radar copters of limited autonomy or with a "combined" mode of operation are possible ...
                    Quote: bayard
                    You just need to RESTORE the country's air defense system according to the Soviet model, but on new technical and material base .

                    And on a slightly different organizational basis ... but this, again, depends on modern technical advances!
                    For stationary air defense systems, such ZGRLS can be useful in that, having timely revealed a threat from a specific direction, they announce the alarm, readiness No. 1 and air defense systems await their legitimate targets while staying in a full BG even before targets enter the detection zone by their own means. And I was "thinking" about this ... I was thinking about how best to use it ... what auxiliary (additional) means can be used ...
                    1. bayard
                      bayard 17 September 2021 18: 22
                      +1
                      Quote: Nikolaevich I
                      But I did not mean the existing type of ground-based ZGRLS! Now, to increase the range of radar detection and guidance, different types of "towers" are used ...

                      winked This is no longer a ZGRLS, but a line-of-sight radar - that is, a classic radar. These have long been installed in elevated positions, on bulk hills and / or raised antenna systems on mast devices. This increases the detection range of low-altitude targets for "SM" and "DM" radars. This has been done for a long time.
                      To radically move / expand the detection zone, the radar must be raised to a height of several kilometers, and this is possible only with the help of AWACS aircraft and airships. They actively experimented with airships at the turn of the 80s - 90s and later. Both in our country and in the USA. But the airship has a huge windage, and at those heights there are strong winds and GUSHES up to squalls. For this reason, the idea of ​​tethered AWACS balloons failed both in our country (they experimented in Kamchatka) and in the USA (I still remember those shots when the untied balloon went downward, destroying the ground buildings of civilian American citizens with cables with cables ... And launch a free-flying airship (which would be interesting), so it will burn so much fuel to fight wind loads ... In general, the topic is interesting, complex, but has not yet been widely developed.
                      And to base such monsters on the ground is still a pleasure ... they need SUCH hangars ... and where they are needed (Arctic, Far East) SUCH WIND ...
                      But with the aviation AWACS it worked out as something right away - back in WWII. And it remains the main means of AWACS. Moreover, for such an airborne radar there are no closed zones and problems with the curvature of the earth for detecting low-altitude targets - EVERYTHING IS SEEN FROM THE TOP. Therefore, it is an ideal tool for controlling combat operations in the air and for opening and intercepting low-altitude airborne missile launchers.
                      And that is why our opponents have more than enough such AWACS aircraft.
                      And that is why our liberal leadership stubbornly sabotages the creation and construction of a sufficient fleet of such aircraft in our country.
                      The A-100 is the disappointed hope of the Aerospace Forces, Air Defense and the Navy. It was planned to build 50 of them. The plans were announced in 2010.
                      In recent years, mentions in the press and official reports of the Ministry of Defense and the Ministry of Industry and Trade about this critical element of the country's security ... are ALWAYS absent.
                      Quote: Nikolaevich I
                      multicopters with AFAR ...

                      No, this is not for air defense. And the copter will not be able to hang in the air for a long time. And the electrical power consumed by the radar is very high ... should I supply it with a cable? 3 - 4 - 7 km?
                      Quote: Nikolaevich I
                      For stationary air defense systems, such ZGRLS can be useful in that, having timely revealed a threat from a specific direction, they announce an alarm, readiness No. 1 and air defense systems await their legitimate targets while staying in a full BG even before targets enter the detection zone by their own means. And I "thought" about this ... I was thinking about how to use it better ... what auxiliary (additional) means can be used ...

                      Better than a combination of ZGRLS as a threat detection and warning station, and AWACS aircraft taking off on alarm accompanied by a link of duty fighters, you still can't think of. Without an AWACS aircraft, fighters may not find targets, and they will give out their presence before they themselves discover anything. And with stationary positions of the air defense missile system, only individual objects can be covered. That is, to build only object air defense, because there will not be enough air defense systems for the entire territory of the country ... it would be enough for the most important objects.
                      Therefore, the country's air defense should be based on the use of fighter aircraft under the control of AWACS aircraft, and the construction of a continuous radar field using various types of over-the-horizon (classical) radars by the air defense RTV units, for the timely detection of air threats at the most distant from our borders, borders.
                      For all this beauty, we do not have enough (due to the almost complete absence) of a sufficient fleet of AWACS aircraft. All other elements are available to one degree or another.
                      hi
                      1. Nikolaevich I
                        Nikolaevich I 17 September 2021 19: 23
                        0
                        Well, here ... the theses of the new topic are practically ready! You can call it: "Ways to improve air defense systems in the 21st century ..."! Now I don’t know what to do! In many ways I agree with you, but there are points where I would like to object! In addition, there is a feeling that you did not understand me "100%" in everything! Here you can also mention the fact that I was not going to call the antenna arrays on the "towers" ZGRLS ... I remembered about airships; but, due to the "minuses" you mentioned, I did not insert into the post ... not tethered) copters, then yes ... there are problems! It remains to try to solve them; because. I do not want to "throw out the child with the dirty water ..."! For a long time, radars have been operating in complexes that "serve" a "long-term" stationary air defense ... But there are "nomadic" air defense systems ... In this mode, are copters with antenna arrays or radar copters "wireless" with limited autonomy or "hybrid"? (for example, like ... flew for a certain time ... sat down ... he was quickly replaced: a) battery module; b) modular fuel tank ... Perhaps, not multicopters, but VTOL UAVs are better suited!
                        There are ideas about the "pairing" of ground-based air defense missile systems and ZGRLS ... even about airships (with a variable "profile" ...) there is something ... There are ideas of "distributed in space" AFAR to increase the "invulnerability" of antennas ensuring the ability to combat the "swarm" of UAVs ... But this is more suitable for a new topic and is more suitable, perhaps, for an article, and not for a post ...
                      2. bayard
                        bayard 17 September 2021 21: 06
                        +1
                        Quote: Nikolaevich I
                        Well, here ... the theses of the new topic are practically ready! You can call it: "Ways to improve air defense systems in the 21st century ..."!

                        Eh Nikolaevich, give me a spin on this topic now ... We discussed this topic with airships, ZGRLS and other exotic things more than once with a friend. He served half his life in Primorye, remembers that topic (with tests in Kamchatka), participated in discussions and military councils ... With tethered balloons, as I said, both us and the Americans have disappeared due to the high unpredictable loads .. In general, these balloons were winding like ... and they were torn off the leash, it happened ... They were abandoned.
                        A free-floating AWACS airship with a crew / crew on board is another matter, and a completely different level of problems. And to solve it purely within the framework of providing AWACS ... it is too difficult and irrational. It would be another matter if it were solved in the context of the national program for the development of heavy airship building as a "new" mode of transport for the delivery of large and not very convenient cargo to Siberia and the Far East ... such topics were in the late Soviet Union, the Tupolev Design Bureau seemed to be doing this - it was proposed to build huge, cyclopean airships ... Only here there is another difficulty - logistics and infrastructure. After all, they cannot be based like ordinary aircraft at airfields ... give them hangars. Otherwise, it will break off the leash with the same wind and go to drive around the neighborhood ... so many misfortunes can do ...
                        And they need HUGE hangars. And ordinary lightweight structures will not work here either - low weight and high windage are a prerequisite for destruction from the same wind loads ... And to build capital hollow hangars of SUCH dimensions ... this is already a price, complexity, profitability ... Again, a lot of contradictions.
                        I remember at those meetings, and in our conversations with a friend, we all came to the same - AWACS aircraft, preferably with the possibility of refueling in the air. These can be based at any airfield without any hangar. And they are not so critically dependent on winds at different heights. And when ready, they can take off quickly to a given area and provide lighting of the air situation and combat control. Collectively, this turns out to be cheaper, simpler, more practical, better in terms of the result and much more familiar.
                        And what would seem simpler - there is a good base for such an aircraft - the same Il-76MD90A, it may not be so economically efficient in terms of fuel efficiency, but it is capacious (you can deploy a large number of jobs, take an additional supply of fuel) and can actually sit on any airfield. Even on a dirt track, if the situation calls for it. This option is expensive in a military environment.
                        The idea was expressed to use the Tu-214 as a base, and from the presence. They say the fuel will gobble up half as much, and its carrying capacity is quite enough (the equipment has seriously improved over the past decades) + greater comfort for the crew members and combat crew. But there is a question, whether a "mushroom" will stand on his back, or they want to attach a "board" to his back. In the latter case, you can not even dream of a circular view ... Someone for this purpose even proposed the MS-21, which has not yet been launched in the series ... but its composite wing can play against such a decision, because in military operating conditions it will be a minus - any slight damage, when a patch is simply put on the duralumin wing by the forces of aircraft technicians in the conditions of the azhrodrome ... for a composite wing it can become almost a sentence or a serious technical problem.
                        But the whole trouble is that we have problems not in the aircraft base, but in the contractor for electronic equipment ... This is the same notorious and monopoly in this area ... "Vega". angry How many programs she failed ... and countless. And with the modernization of PLO aircraft and helicopters ... a lot of things. The long-awaited A-100 was promised to us back in 2015 ... And where is it to this day?
                        They referred to ... the absence of our own radio component base ... Today we get this base for satellites and all aircraft, and for air defense systems ... from China.
                        So what seemed to be the problem?
                        How is the fundamentally radio component base for ground-based air defense radars and airborne radars of combat aircraft different from that needed for an AWACS aircraft?
                        Apparently due to the possibility of such inconvenient questions, in recent years the A-100 topic has not been raised either in the press or in the circles of the Ministry of Industry and Trade and Rostec ...

                        And we have everything else to create and maintain a more or less decent air defense system of the Country. There are several types of ZGRLS, incl. complementary "Container" and "Sunflower", there are means of radar control on classical radars and object air defense based on air defense systems of different types. There are quite good combat fighters for these purposes ... whose numbers, however, I would like to seriously increase, and the airfield network (including reserve and dispersal airfields in the desired period) - to expand.
                        But this whole picture is spoiled and ruined by the lack of a sufficient number of AWACS AIRCRAFT! For without them, modern warfare in the air is not possible in principle. Moreover, with such a serious adversary as the United States and NATO ... Yes, even in the event of a conflict with Japan, the absence of such aircraft in the theater of operations can cause VERY grave consequences. ZGRLS will certainly mitigate the problem somewhat, but by no means will they solve it - they are for something completely different.

                        But with air defense systems of various types, ranges, power and purposes, we are not bad at all ... But without lighting the air situation at low altitudes (flight level of the KR DB), which only AWACS aircraft can provide qualitatively, all our on-site air defense will be like ... the garrisons of those fortresses in the Middle Ages, which sat outside the walls and watched as the enemy troops without interference ravaged and burned their cities and countries.
                        Fighter aviation is a much more flexible air defense tool than stationary object air defense on ground-based air defense systems, but for its effective use it is necessary to provide it with combat control, and therefore radar illumination of the situation AT ALL ALTITUDES. What to do without AWACS aircraft is IMPOSSIBLE.
                        but the Minister of Defense and the Supreme Commander-in-Chief do not seem to care about THIS.
                        From the word - at all.
                        hi
                        And sorry for some repetitions - it's boiling.
    3. Normann
      Normann 16 September 2021 16: 44
      0
      And the fact that different types of missiles can be used did not you think?
    4. voyaka uh
      voyaka uh 16 September 2021 21: 23
      +1
      "Now they seem to be writing that the complex shoots only at space targets
      In this case, this is not an anti-aircraft complex at all, it is part of a missile defense system, an analogue of the American THAAD "///
      -----
      THAAD fires at warheads of ICBMs and MRBMs as they descend. This is a strategic missile defense system for the protection of objects
      from BR. With an efficiency of about 50%.
      The satellites of the Americans are fired by an IJIS SM-3 missile.

      S-500 - for the destruction of satellites, first of all. A useful rocket.

      It is difficult for her to intercept an ICBM warhead due to the lack of a kinetic apparatus for accurate destruction.
      ICBM warheads are protected from fragments / shrapnel. It is necessary to hit the warhead for sure.
      1. Liam
        Liam 16 September 2021 21: 26
        -2
        Quote: voyaka uh

        S-500 - for the destruction of satellites, first of all. Useful rocket

        Have such tests been carried out and if so what are the results?
  13. bk316
    bk316 16 September 2021 14: 46
    +4
    Moreover, the complex is not yet supplied in a full configuration,

    "At what" in this sentence must be written together. Or have I forgotten Russian?
    1. Sidor Amenpodestovich
      Sidor Amenpodestovich 16 September 2021 15: 20
      +1
      Quote: bk316
      "At what" in this sentence must be written together. Or have I forgotten Russian?

      What do you want from people for whom 40 is a number?
      1. bk316
        bk316 16 September 2021 16: 11
        -1
        for which 40 is a number

        Yes, it just pisses me off, much more than "ringing" or "targeting". Probably this is my mathematical education affects. laughing
  14. bk316
    bk316 16 September 2021 14: 53
    +9
    Knowing a little how they work in Almaz, I dare to assume that soon we will hear about the S-600.
    The guys always work for the future for 10 years at least.
    1. MTZ 80
      MTZ 80 16 September 2021 15: 18
      -7
      Knowing a little how they work in Almaz, I dare to assume that soon we will hear about the S-600.
      Hah S-1600)) lol
  15. Joker62
    Joker62 16 September 2021 14: 54
    +3
    Quote: For example
    Quote: seti
    I would like 4

    Doctor, do you have any pills for greed? Give me, yes, more! wassat

    Toad smothers ??? wassat Poor thing ... crying
  16. The comment was deleted.
  17. Sergey Averchenkov
    Sergey Averchenkov 16 September 2021 15: 13
    +5
    What to say? I'm glad! :)
  18. Sands Careers General
    Sands Careers General 16 September 2021 15: 15
    +3
    This is some kind of holiday)) good
  19. Ros 56
    Ros 56 16 September 2021 15: 22
    +4
    Quiet, men, quiet. Soon a snake hiss from the EU and Khokhlostan will be heard.
  20. Vladimir61
    Vladimir61 16 September 2021 15: 23
    +5
    With a good increase in the ration of the most "selective" troops, they themselves do not fly and do not give to others!
  21. Ross xnumx
    Ross xnumx 16 September 2021 15: 35
    +4
    In short - success! good
  22. Vakcin
    Vakcin 16 September 2021 16: 38
    +2
    Well, we waited ..! The good news is ... the Army and the Navy are our main ally, and the rest will follow.
  23. seregin-s1
    seregin-s1 16 September 2021 18: 51
    -3
    Something has not been written about the S-600 for a long time. Zhirinovsky promised! We wait!)
  24. Egg
    Egg 16 September 2021 18: 56
    0
    Quote: tralflot1832
    Maybe warhead interceptor missiles, with kinetic damage?

    I never understood what was the advantage of such missiles, when I served then for the direct hit of the missile on the target, the division was counted a failure.
    And for the mass landing of multiple targets, there were warheads with a vigorous filling.
    Can anyone clarify in what way kinetic defeat is better?
    1. sbuskets
      sbuskets 16 September 2021 20: 41
      +2
      A fragmentation missile cannot disable a large missile and a warhead, the old Patriots could not shoot down Soviet ballistic missiles, it took up to 10 interceptor missiles to intercept, so the United States began to implement kinetic interception.
      1. Egg
        Egg 17 September 2021 21: 52
        +1
        The warhead of the S-200 missile complex of 300kg of hexogen and about 40 thousand damaging elements fired by a cone, when firing at the range, the target was cut into small fragments ...
        as it is hard to believe that such a missile is not capable of hitting a large missile or warhead ... I'm not talking about a vigorous warhead.
        And I strongly doubt that modern complexes have a lower lethality, the patriots are not a decree for us, neither the old nor the new
  25. 123456789
    123456789 16 September 2021 20: 36
    0
    Quote: bayard
    Quote: Kaw
    So, apparently the possibility of firing at aerodynamic targets in it was never done, and therefore "in a truncated form."

    On the contrary, this option is perhaps the main one for them. Now .

    Quote: Kaw
    And it's a pity, for the S-500, new missiles with a range of 600 km were supposed to be released.

    SAM with a range of 600 km?
    And against what, I apologize, is it possible to use this rocket against?
    If a target flying at an altitude of 10 m becomes visible (rises above the horizon) at a distance of only 000 km. ?
    The earth is round.
    To detect (not shoot down, but only detect) a target at a distance of 600 km, it must fly at an altitude of about 40 km. - not less .
    So such missiles (against aerodynamic high-altitude targets) will be relevant only after the enemy has a GZUR with such a height and range. In the meantime, they have enough missiles from the BK S-400. Plus, of course, anti-missiles.
    That is why the "still truncated configuration".
    And to hit targets beyond the horizon is possible only with the help of illumination / target designation from the AWACS aircraft. We do NOT have such today.
    Quote: Kaw
    Then he would be equal in his capabilities to the latest modification of the American Aegis.

    On the way, he still surpassed him. And the range of interception, and the ability to intercept hypersonic maneuvering targets.
    The naval version of the S-500 radar is likely to be installed on the modernized nuclear-powered missile cruiser Admiral Nakhimov.

    Input data
    Target height
    ht
    10

    kilometer (km)
    Radar antenna height
    hr
    0,05
    kilometer (km)

    Выходные данные
    Geometric horizon
    dg25.24 km 15.69 mi 13.63 nautical miles (international)
    Radio horizon
    dr29.15 km 18.11 mi 15.74 nautical miles (international)
    Geometric line-of-sight range of the target
    Dg382.2 km 237.54 mi 206.37 nautical miles (international)
    Target line-of-sight range
    Dr441.33 km 274.29 mile 238.3 nautical miles (international)
  26. Jacket in stock
    Jacket in stock 16 September 2021 21: 15
    +2
    We built, built, and finally built ... (c)
    I remember years ... twenty years ago, the first thing that I wrote with the rank of young specialist at the research institute was a report on research and development about the interception of ballistic warheads. That was a long time ago, then we wrote these R&D works purely for show - like a missile defense treaty and all that. And now you see how it went - Nudol, Prometheus, it's all about ...
    Beauty.
    Straight soul rejoices, especially for those who now work in those research institutes, because it is so nice to see the real result of their work. If it’s not a pocket, it warms the soul.
    Moral satisfaction is also nice.
  27. certero
    certero 18 September 2021 04: 23
    0
    I am not a bloodthirsty person, but I would so much like this complex to be tested on one of our "partners". For example, you would knock down some drone or satellite, and then you apologize. I am sure it would be useful for everyone.
  28. Anton 17
    Anton 17 26 September 2021 07: 22
    0
    They are in a hurry. The deliveries "are not in the full range that Almaz-Antey must make at the request of the customer."