Military Review

Features of language training at specialized faculties of Russian universities

52

During my first trip abroad, I met a wonderful military simultaneous interpreter of the Group of Russian Military Advisers in Yemen, Vladimir Bykovtsev, a graduate of the Military Institute (currently a university) of the Ministry of Defense (now Colonel Bykovtsev heads the Department of Middle Eastern Languages ​​at the Faculty of Foreign Languages ​​of the named university).


Vladimir told me that, since during his studies in the early 90s, the issues of military-technical cooperation with Afghanistan were still very relevant, he, as an Arabist, was also trained as a translator of Dari, one of the state languages ​​of Afghanistan. Of course, thanks to the common writing (Arabic) and vocabulary (there are a large number of Arabisms in the Dari), it is easier for an Arabian cadet to learn Dari than, for example, for a German student. But at the same time it turned out that the training in English, with which most applicants enter the Military University, did not have the Middle Eastern cadets. That is, the training of military translators of oriental languages ​​was so narrow that they had to correspond only to one function - translation from oriental languages, while in other language universities, the study of English or even a second Western language for students of oriental languages ​​is an obligatory part of the educational process.

As a student of the ISAA at Moscow State University, and continuing to get acquainted with the approaches to the language training of students of various Russian universities, I discovered the presence of several characteristic problems.

Problem # 1


First, there is the problem of coercion.

Not always, but very often it happens that the administration of the university or faculty declares to the applicant: either you will study the language (s) that you have been assigned, or you can take the documents.

Problem # 2


Secondly, the problem of language compatibility.

It is known that languages ​​for one reason or another (most often this is a colonial heritage) are close to each other, of course, not genetically, but historically.

English, as the global language of the world community, is beyond competition here. Nevertheless, the French language also combines well with the languages ​​of the former French colonies (the Maghreb countries - Arabic; the Indochina countries - Lao, Vietnamese, Khmer; the West and Central African countries - Hausa, Igbo, Fula, Yoruba, etc.).

Spanish and Portuguese are also combined. In addition, the languages ​​of the former metropolises are often the state languages ​​of the third world countries. At the same time, the languages ​​of the former metropolises are well combined with each other (we must not forget that English should come first).

However, it would be unwise to study Amharic or Malagasy at the same time as Spanish, as well as to study Italian or Norwegian at the same time as Chinese. And similar cases happen, for example, among students of the Russian State University for the Humanities studying in the specialty "comparative linguistics".

It is known that in the Soviet Union in secondary schools the emphasis was placed on the study of the German language, and only in the postwar years began to pay more attention to the English language, which in the early 90s already prevailed in Russian schools.

The situation began to change only in the last few years, when interest in Germany as the leader of the European Union increased. Germany was not a colonial empire, like the British one, and it ruled with its few colonies for a relatively short time, therefore the German language is combined only with other European languages, mainly with the languages ​​of the countries of Northern and Eastern Europe.

Problem # 3


Thirdly, the lack of deep study of Western languages.

When studying oriental languages, you need not a superficial familiarization, but a practical knowledge of European languages, since it is in these languages ​​that scientific literature has been published about a particular rare language, as well as about the region of the studied language. This is one of the reasons why you need to choose the right Western language.

In addition, the Western language may come to the rescue in the future when, which is very likely, there is a difficulty in translating from the Eastern language or if the region has to communicate with representatives of the Western world. This approach is practiced at the Military Academy of the RF Ministry of Defense and was applied there before (at the Special Faculty of the MV Frunze Military Academy of the Red Army).

Problem # 4


Fourth, collecting languages.

Those who are easy to learn languages ​​and who are fond of studying them should not be engaged in collecting them, even if the university provides such an opportunity, since any already studied language can be improved indefinitely.

Unfortunately, in some universities that offer training in programs of second higher education, for example, in the Diplomatic Academy of the Ministry of Foreign Affairs of the Russian Federation, in order to form study groups of unclaimed, but envisaged languages, students are offered to "expand their language capabilities." Many students and listeners are tempted not so much by the opportunity to learn another language, even at a very intermediate level, as by the opportunity to get an additional enrollment in the diploma.

Conclusion


In fact, on the contrary, one must beware of falling into an intellectual "trap" in future employment: in most cases, a thinking employer does not need a specialist even in two languages ​​at the same time, not to mention a greater number of them, since it is impossible to know two languages ​​equally well, and the employer can always find someone who speaks one of your "working" languages ​​better than you.

In addition, if for some time you will not be able to fulfill your labor duties in terms of language support, then it is easier for an employer to find a replacement for a specialist in one language than for a bilingual or trilingual.

Nevertheless, anyone who wants to connect his life with foreign economic activity or international relations needs at least two working languages, according to the Foreign Ministry saying “with one language on one leg”. In this pair of languages, there can be only one oriental or none: the pair "English and Danish" is better than "Arabic and Chinese".

In the latter case, taking into account that learning oriental languages ​​is much more difficult than learning western ones, it can turn out like in the saying about two birds with one stone: that is, you will not know any of the languages ​​well enough, and employers simply will not take you seriously , if you start to trump your language asset in employment.

As a result, the enormous effort, time and money spent on learning oriental languages ​​will be thrown into the void.
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  1. Machnamh
    Machnamh 18 September 2021 18: 18
    0
    The main thing is to learn the local slang. Otherwise, you will not pass for your own ...
  2. Gardamir
    Gardamir 18 September 2021 18: 27
    +1
    All this is of course interesting. But during the heyday of Russia (the Soviet Union), the Russian language was spoken not only in the republics of the USSR, 260 million, but in many countries of the world the Russian language was seriously studied. And foreign languages, someone knows six languages, someone has not learned the only English.
    1. Sergey1964
      Sergey1964 19 September 2021 07: 40
      +3
      Quote: Gardamir
      But the heyday of Russia (Soviet Union)

      Amendment. Russia and the Soviet Union are different states. Russia (RSFSR) was part of the USSR as one of the 15 union republics, although it was the largest, about half of the population of the USSR lived in the RSFSR. Ethnically, according to the 1989 census - about the same proportion, 50% of the population in the USSR were Russians. But half of the population is far from the entire USSR. What is Russia without the rest of the republics of the USSR - we can see the example of the current Russian Federation.
      1. Gardamir
        Gardamir 19 September 2021 08: 02
        0
        Amendment.
        I strongly disagree. Look at the map of Russia before 1914. Almost the same USSR
        1. Sergey1964
          Sergey1964 19 September 2021 10: 41
          +3
          Quote: Gardamir
          Look at the map of Russia before 1914. Almost the same USSR

          With the exception of Poland and Finland, which seceded after 1917 - yes, almost the USSR. Only it was not Russia, but the Russian Empire. Which, in addition to Russia itself, included Poland, Finland, the Baltic States, Central Asia, the Caucasus and Transcaucasia, ... You will not argue that the inhabitants of Warsaw, Helsinki or Dushanbe are entirely former Russians?
    2. Sergey1964
      Sergey1964 19 September 2021 08: 00
      0
      Quote: Gardamir
      But in many countries of the world, the Russian language was studied seriously.

      Well I do not know. I first went abroad only at the beginning of the 90s, and began to actively communicate with foreigners coming to Krasnoyarsk from the beginning of the 2014s (before that Krasnoyarsk was closed to foreigners). Plus, he worked several times in international summer schools based on the Siberian Aerospace University (since XNUMX, this case has been closed). For all the time I have met only two foreigners who speak Russian. Both are in Beijing, Professor Hong Liu (she once studied in the USSR) and (at that time a graduate student, and now Ph.D for a long time) Yuming Fu (he studied Russian at school).
      1. Gardamir
        Gardamir 19 September 2021 08: 07
        +2
        Well I do not know.
        At least graduates of the Peoples' Friendship University. In that small institution where I studied in the 80s, there were also students from Laos, Vietnam, Angola .. Plus, our specialists traveled around the world, building a hydroelectric power station in Aswan. And finally, the Union was respected and they themselves wanted to learn Russian.
        1. Sergey1964
          Sergey1964 19 September 2021 10: 32
          +1
          Quote: Gardamir
          At least graduates of the Peoples' Friendship University.

          My colleague and I happened to live there for several days in the late 80s during a business trip to Moscow. The locals, I remember, called him "Lumumbarium". Actually, we only spent the night there, but I still remember three things.
          - constant stench in the room, despite the ventilation
          - an abundance of rats
          - an abundance of blacks, unusual for a Siberian (although then I did not know that these were blacks, not blacks - however, we did not communicate with them)
          In general, at the end of the 80s, it was a terrible hole. It was then that my personal friendship of peoples gave its first crack. ))
          1. ycuce234-san
            ycuce234-san 19 September 2021 21: 55
            +1
            It became a lumumbarium because government agencies were mainly responsible for overhaul and public services, which then were no longer able to even support the housing and communal services complex on the move, although it was not clear, it was just that the devastation and disorder gradually intensified.
            That is, in large cities there were all sorts of communal services and construction complexes, which in good times kept these hostels in a sanitary condition and periodically repaired (in the summer, when the studiosus did not live there in large numbers); but gradually it was not up to that, even major clean-ups, apparently, stopped altogether. Therefore, modern African hostels on the black continent still look exactly the same - the states there are poor and preoccupied with survival and wars, while the south-west and north-oasts are buzzing in the pockets of the citizens-residents.
            https://www.shkolazhizni.ru/world/articles/104035/
      2. Aviator_
        Aviator_ 19 September 2021 11: 24
        +1
        For all the time I have met only two foreigners who speak Russian.

        For the first time I met a foreigner (German, originally from West Germany), who speaks Russian only at a conference in Zurich in 2018, it was the secretary of the organizing committee, an aunt of 50. It turned out that her grandfather studied Russian when restoring Rostov-on-Don, then persuaded his granddaughter learn our language. The granddaughter knew the language well, this is the grandfather, probably, besides the construction Russian slang, he knew a little.
        1. Sergey1964
          Sergey1964 19 September 2021 12: 34
          +2
          Quote: Aviator_
          The granddaughter knew the language well, this is the grandfather, probably, apart from the construction Russian slang, he knew a little.

          Remembered. In the early 90s, they became friends with an American family (husband, wife and four children from 6 to 14 years old). The man, it seems, was going to do the forestry business, he went to the Boguchansky district several times, and at that time they were distributing the children to their Krasnoyarsk acquaintances, including us. Children, in communication with their peers, mastered Russian perfectly, but in a version heavily clogged with obscene vocabulary. laughing
          Later, at the request of the peasant, I conducted political and educational work with the children on the topic "which Russian words should not be used in a decent society."
          1. Aviator_
            Aviator_ 19 September 2021 14: 56
            0
            The grandfather of the secretary of the organizing committee, probably, had sympathy with some local resident and demanded at one time that the granddaughter be named Anna, and he himself, otherwise, did not call her Anechka (not Anchen).
            Once I had to be at a conference in Japan, where I was the only Russian speaker. There was, however, a professor from the Czech Republic, as it turned out at the final banquet, he knew the song "Through the wild steppes of Transbaikalia", but with mistakes. Probably, his grandfather (or great-grandfather) was among the White Czechs in 1918.
            1. Sergey1964
              Sergey1964 19 September 2021 15: 14
              0
              Quote: Aviator_
              Once I had to be at a conference in Japan, where I was the only Russian speaker.

              It is very convenient - you can swear as much as you like, and no one will understand. ))
              But at COSPAR-2012 in India there were several Russian speakers (offhand - significantly more than 10 or even 20), however - all from Russia. Moreover, in our section, all Russian speakers were not just from Russia, but exclusively from Krasnoyarsk. laughing
              1. Aviator_
                Aviator_ 19 September 2021 18: 14
                +1
                It is very convenient - you can swear as much as you like, and no one will understand. ))

                On the one hand, it is, of course, good, but once he said to a Pole, "For the company and a man, he strangled himself," without seeing that the Israeli delegation was nearby. It was lucky that they did not hear, or there were no Russian speakers among them.
  3. knn54
    knn54 18 September 2021 18: 29
    +1
    It seems that there are not enough teachers-METHODISTS.
  4. From Tomsk
    From Tomsk 18 September 2021 18: 37
    +3
    There is no such thing as "Western language". So is the "oriental language". And teach others.
    1. alystan
      alystan 18 September 2021 19: 30
      0
      Well, then you should have paid attention to the word "two-" (meaning bilingual), which is written without the "x".
      1. Lara Croft
        Lara Croft 18 September 2021 20: 40
        0
        the word "two-" (meaning bilingual), which is written without the "x".

        Don't find fault. An article about "western" and "eastern" languages, not Russian ... belay
    2. Shahno
      Shahno 18 September 2021 22: 27
      -1
      No concept. Paradigms of the Arabic language are different
    3. Pavel Gusterin
      18 September 2021 22: 31
      +2
      Quote: From Tomsk
      There is no such thing as "Western language". So is the "oriental language". And teach others.


      Quote from the article "Languages ​​of the World" TSB: "To the ancient Indo-European languages, which once occupied an intermediate position between eastern and western languages, also belongs to the dead Tocharian languages ​​".

      From Tomsk (Sinner), that's why I teach ... :)
  5. sergo1914
    sergo1914 18 September 2021 19: 02
    +3
    A friend studied there. He studied Jewish. When asked why? - Followed the answer - to interrogate the prisoners. Mid - late eighties. We then opened his eyes. We say they all know Russian.
  6. alystan
    alystan 18 September 2021 19: 12
    0
    Problem number 1 is just my case, but one or two of those who got into French were transferred to French in the very first days of classes, but to refuse, and even more so to take the documents and leave, this was not in my memory. Not everyone came to this language easily, especially pronunciation, but there were few of them and this is a little about something else.
  7. Private SA
    Private SA 18 September 2021 19: 28
    +2
    In a good fairy tale by S. Anisimov "Variant BIS" there was a character - a translator from English,
    who could distinguish, in minutes of the intercepted conversation, the birthplace of the radio operator
    a sunken ship screaming into the air. "This is not New Zealander, and not Australian."
    In a fairy tale, he could also determine the province of Germany by pronunciation.
    Quote: Machnamh
    The main thing is to learn the local slang.
    - and this is army jargon.
    That we are now graduates of paid courses or special schools with a bias just in English
    will demonstrate? Yes, I don't understand their translation of some User Guide into Russian, because
    that they do not own technical terms.
    1. Iskazi
      Iskazi 18 September 2021 19: 52
      +4
      Of course, not everyone can reach such heights ..., but ordinary conscripts after the Soviet school coped very well with the tasks of voice radio interception, ... and there were also guys with 1st Class, but it was aerobatics ... ., did not try to write with a pen synchronously behind the announcer in conditions of interference and disgusting air, but they wrote, understood, reported ..., it was a cool service ...
      1. alystan
        alystan 18 September 2021 20: 54
        +1
        I agree that the selection was well established for the training and the training itself was also well organized.
        But radio interception is still not exactly translation work. Voice or telegraph is a good memory, hearing (including musical), cursive, etc. With voice interception, there was no need to know the language at the spoken level, it was necessary to quickly recognize and have time to record everything.
      2. ccsr
        ccsr 19 September 2021 11: 14
        -2
        Quote: Iskazi
        but ordinary conscripts after the Soviet school coped very well with the tasks of voice radio interception, ..

        But do not forget that they spent six months at the ShMS before that intensively studied for many hours a day before going on combat duty. So they really received such language training when listening to slang military negotiations, which in no other university in the country could be given.
        1. Iskazi
          Iskazi 19 September 2021 14: 58
          0
          3 months in training ... and others go straight to the company ... many hours a day? - no more than 2-3 in training, and then not every day, the same situation in the company, guards, outfits, shifts, work, hazing relationships ... The officers had high-quality training, and real military merits in this area, as VIYAZ graduates so and "Jackets", School is lost .., methods are popular, there is no motivation. The watch was operational ...
          1. ccsr
            ccsr 19 September 2021 18: 12
            -2
            Quote: Iskazi
            many hours a day? - no more than 2-3 in training, and even then not every day,

            Maybe it was so with you, but in the 82nd brigade of the OSH it was completely different with the training - I think who served there under Popidchenko or would confirm this earlier. They took it very seriously, I saw it.
            1. Iskazi
              Iskazi 19 September 2021 20: 52
              0
              different Osnaz, -different tasks ..., all have their own characteristics ..., the problem is that a lot of good things have been discarded, and the wrong place has taken its place ...
  8. Azis
    Azis 18 September 2021 20: 14
    +6
    Unfortunately, under the current education system (I don’t take the military one, although I think it’s the same in the "stream"), the study of languages ​​other than English, optional German and French, in the Far East - Chinese and Japanese, is completely neglected. In our state university there was a study of Farsi, at first it was really a "Farsian", then something did not grow together for money or some other moments - that's all, the group was abandoned, only the tops were picked up. In the future, senior students (the same) taught. And now a graduate of this group works as a translator at the Chamber of Commerce and Industry ... Google translates better, only it needs to be adapted. To the question of translating the date in the document into Gregorian - he answers "I don't know" ..., the second tries to recalculate the date in the lunar Hijri, although the Persians have solar. This is the question of aptitude.
  9. Dartik
    Dartik 18 September 2021 20: 51
    +2
    The problem is that we are still taught according to the old manuals that have already been arranged, to take the same English. The university teaches British-English, although most of the world speaks American-English. The filing of language learning is also outdated. When most of the time is spent on reading, and not on translation, and even more so pronunciation, and most importantly, they rarely give lessons because they pronounce the words. Read one thing and hear another. This and that is important. Therefore, after school and university, the language is known to those who either have a soul or went to a tutor. And for the most part they know at the level of - slang.
    1. Konnick
      Konnick 18 September 2021 21: 17
      0
      The problem is that we are still taught according to the old manuals that have already been arranged, to take the same English. The university teaches British-English, although most of the world speaks American-English. The filing of language learning is also outdated.

      No training manuals will be in time
      https://youtu.be/xAjVZXpQToI
    2. Old Michael
      Old Michael 19 September 2021 14: 33
      0
      Dartik:
      The problem is that we are still taught according to the old manuals that have already been arranged, to take the same English. The university teaches British-English, although most of the world speaks American-English. The filing of language learning is also outdated. When most of the time is spent on reading, and not on translation, and even more so pronunciation, and most importantly, they rarely give lessons because they pronounce the words. Read one thing and hear another. This and that is important. Therefore, after school and university, the language is known to those who either have a soul or went to a tutor. And for the most part they know at the level of - slang.


      And what is the reason for the bad command of the state language of your country?
  10. Private SA
    Private SA 18 September 2021 23: 15
    +1
    Quote: Azis
    This is the question of aptitude.

    The fight will show everything. Private aircraft mechanic Sinaisky (collection by Drabkin "I fought in a fighter".)
    after interrogating in his Yiddish the brought down German, he allowed the air regiment to be raised in time.
    He ended that war as a military translator.
  11. dmmyak40
    dmmyak40 18 September 2021 23: 53
    +3
    As a graduate of one of the country's civil linguistic universities, and later a teacher and Ph.D. I can say that the leadership (both in the localities and at the top) does not care deeply about the quality of education. Old cadres diligently survive, for they are hefty smart and independent, and young people have a career and money on their minds.
    PS Yes, now there is a trend in fashion: we do not teach students, we provide educational services. He spat on it and left.
    1. Sergey1964
      Sergey1964 19 September 2021 06: 08
      0
      Quote: dmmyak40
      As a graduate of one of the country's civil linguistic universities, and later a teacher and Ph.D. I can say that the management (both in the localities and at the top) does not care deeply about the quality of education.

      As an acting professor of the university and D.Sc. (who knows the situation in natural science, medical, and technical universities) I can confirm. The quality of education and the ministry and the leadership of universities do not care deeply. To justify the leadership of universities, I can say that the leadership is forced to comply with the requirements of the ministry - and these requirements are reduced to an ever-increasing flow of meaningless papers. The quality of teaching is determined solely and exclusively by the correct documentation (teaching, department, university).

      Moreover, with each new version of the Federal State Educational Standard (who does not know - these are Federal State Educational Standards, mandatory for all state universities), the number and complexity of documentation increases. And the versions of FGOS are updated with enviable regularity - now FGOS-3 ++ is in effect (just like "a 4+ generation fighter, a 4 ++ generation fighter, ..."), but they are already frightening with a new version, FGOS-4.
    2. Sergey1964
      Sergey1964 19 September 2021 07: 47
      0
      PS
      Quote: dmmyak40
      Old cadres diligently survive

      But I don't see it. Perhaps because in all the departments I know, the "young cadres" are for the most part former students of the "old cadres." And the scientific advisor - he is the scientific advisor for life.
      Quote: dmmyak40
      because they are hefty smart

      Important rating indicators for all universities I know are
      - the number of scientific publications, including in publications indexed in WoS and / or Scopus
      - number of grants and / or other projects with third-party funding won (this is called "extrabudgetary fundraising")
      And for this you just need "hefty smart". ))
      1. dmmyak40
        dmmyak40 20 September 2021 22: 50
        0
        The fact is that hefty smart ones do not want to squirm and wind up the number of scientific publications, they just want to teach. And the rector openly demands that doctors of sciences attract extra-budgetary funds. How is that? When I was still young, I could work as a translator and unfastened the university at least 50% for giving me a job. Although, the robbery is complete. What should doctors of sciences do? Their primary task is to give knowledge and teach specialists, and not to wind up the citation index or the number of publications in the VAK journals.
        My scientific supervisor retired after the rector said in their face: you are nobody, and you will do as you are told: look for clients and so on. The next day, several PhDs wrote their retirement letters. And one is my scientific advisor, the second is an opponent in the pre-defense. Both are real treasures: both in science and in pedagogy.
        1. Sergey1964
          Sergey1964 21 September 2021 03: 57
          0
          Quote: dmmyak40
          When I was still young, I could work as a translator and unfastened the university at least 50% for giving me a job.

          Quote: dmmyak40
          My scientific advisor retired after the rector said in their face: you are nobody, and you will do as you are told

          Wow. We, thank God, have not come to this (yet?). We unbuckle 10% to the university from the off-budget, "you are nobody, and you will do as you are told" I have never heard. But thanks for the warning. It is very possible that it will come to us.
          1. dmmyak40
            dmmyak40 21 September 2021 11: 19
            0
            My older sister at the Pharmacademy received 40% of the extra-budgetary payment for the study of new drugs.
            And so: in 2011, I got myself on the schedule an item that I had to come up with myself - the title and content. And for this oral and written folk art, I got 2 days.
            And in the 3rd year there was a lad who could not speak English from a word at all. But he moved from course to course, more dad had weight.
            1. Sergey1964
              Sergey1964 21 September 2021 12: 56
              0
              Quote: dmmyak40
              And in the 3rd year there was a lad who could not speak English from a word at all. But he moved from course to course, more dad had weight.

              It's easier now. The Ministry of Education and Science in a certain year (I don't remember which one - but somewhere in tenths) put the funding of universities (all) in direct dependence on the number of students actually enrolled. From that moment on, any deduction began to directly hit the pocket of the university. The administrations instantly got their bearings, so now it is almost impossible to expel a student who has never attended a university at all. Each case is examined at the level of the administration, and in any case the teacher will be the last one.
              Do you understand that this is a blow to the university budget, including your own salary? Why didn't he go to your place? Probably, you did not interest him, that is, you taught poorly? By the way, how are you with the organization of the educational process - please show the work programs and FOSs for the last 5 years, and, at the same time, the teacher's journals. Aha, and in RP for two thousand such-and-such a year in section number such-and-such you do not have the signature of the head of the library! So you are not fulfilling your duties at all !. By the way, there is a complaint about you from the parents of Bul-byul-Ogly from the Bulbuloglyn region of the Bulbuloglyn republic - in such and such a month you were 5 minutes late for classes ...
              The teachers, of course, also quickly found their bearings. And those who did not want to be guided - those were guided by the above methods. So now we give the "dead souls" (that is, those who have never been to class at all) with three. And if the administration asks for a specific student - then "excellent", no problem.
              1. Sergey1964
                Sergey1964 21 September 2021 13: 16
                0
                Quote: Sergey1964
                And if the administration asks for a specific student - then "excellent", no problem.

                Right now, I have about 3% of the group attending mathematical methods in biology (compulsory discipline, 30rd year, bachelors). And about the same for agricultural biotechnology. And this is still good - sometimes no one comes to specialized disciplines from colleagues. But we will give all these dead souls credits (or exams, depending on the form of the final control), since we are not our own enemies.
                This is what I call demoralization. Nobody cares about the result. Even those who are a teacher from God, at the call of the heart and soul. No, some are still fluttering - but (given the specifics of the site) this can be compared to the heroic defense of a single bunker, when victorious enemy columns are marching along all the roads, and the authorities in the capital are already signing an act of surrender.
                I myself am one of those who, until recently, still tried to defend the bunker (and there is factual evidence of that), but now I decided - well, he nafig. Everyone retreats and surrenders, but what do I need more than others? That is, I am already demoralized too. I look with admiration at my colleagues in different universities who have not yet become demoralized (there are very few of them, but there are). And I'm waiting with interest when they too are demoralized.
              2. dmmyak40
                dmmyak40 22 September 2021 21: 17
                0
                One girl came to me 2 times per semester, but I did not press her: if a student shows knowledge, I put it for knowledge, not for visiting - I myself was like that. Knows nothing, he sent to prepare. A day later, the dean calls, what they say, is there a name? Nothing, I say, does not know, he sent to prepare. She: dad called, the city prosecutor: she complained to him that the teacher did not give anything, he did not know anything and was squeezing money out.
                I honestly describe the situation, the dean once again clarifies whether everything was so and lets me go.
                The next day, a group of this mamzeli learned about her trick and went to the dean to intercede for me: they say, we will be witnesses. It was very nice, of course. In the end, the dean explained to dad on the finger that the daughter was wrong. Dad gave her a thrash and she learned a C.
                But, this is an infrequent exception to the rule.
                1. Sergey1964
                  Sergey1964 23 September 2021 06: 17
                  0
                  Quote: dmmyak40
                  if a student shows knowledge, I put it for knowledge, not for visiting - I was like that myself.

                  I also put it in favor of knowledge, of course. It's just that my personal experience shows that whoever did not go will not show any knowledge. In general, I gave one such frame at full disposal a computer audience, a textbook in pictures (my own, like "mathematical processing of biological data for dummies" - select this, click on this, a table of results will appear, from the results we are interested in this ...) ... And, of course, the friend could use the phone and the Internet. And I left the audience so as not to embarrass my comrade. The comrade did not master it. From the word "absolutely".

                  Moreover, I usually give a table of real experimental data (of course, I explain the conditions, goals and objectives of the experiment, and even give the names of those who conducted the experiment), and ask you to pull out everything that is possible from this table. I made this comrade's task extremely easy. It's simple - choose one of the two t-tests (how will you process, a regular test or a paired one? No need to process, just tell me which test is needed here). Complete zero. For about 45 minutes, a friend sat in a computer class, and I hung out outside the door. After that, the friend jumped out of the computer class, slammed the door and disappeared. I waited a little more (he would suddenly come back), went in, turned off the computers, and wrote "no show" in the statement.
                  1. dmmyak40
                    dmmyak40 23 September 2021 12: 39
                    0
                    I myself did not always attend couples, but I prepared and passed, therefore I was loyal.
                    1. Sergey1964
                      Sergey1964 23 September 2021 14: 43
                      0
                      Quote: dmmyak40
                      I myself did not always attend couples, but I prepared and passed, therefore I was loyal.

                      At one time I graduated with honors (Krasnoyarsk State University, Biology and Chemistry, 1981-86), I skipped in general in a terrible way.
                      Of course, everyone skipped and skipped. ))
  12. kytx
    kytx 19 September 2021 04: 56
    +1
    My grandfather spoke German perfectly. He could speak as in Berlin and could speak as in Munich.
    And my English is at the level of "Landan from e Capital of Great Britain". :(
    At school they taught disgustingly, at the university they taught to understand technical texts and know the terms.
  13. iouris
    iouris 19 September 2021 11: 48
    0
    The conclusion is this: total degradation. This is especially evident in the example of the state (Russian, although this is not entirely true) language. It is no coincidence that in France the Academy of Sciences began with the language, Stalin paid great attention to the issues of the (state) language.
  14. grumbler
    grumbler 19 September 2021 15: 17
    +1
    The author clearly speaks about the training of applied translators (military, diplomats, members of humanitarian missions, business contacts, etc.), so you need to immediately draw a clear line between the training of translators and linguists.

    Apprentice - solves the problem. Scientist - develops knowledge. This is a different method of thinking and education. Exactly how to distinguish between an engineer and a natural scientist. Practical problems should be solved by applied specialists, and scientists can come to their aid if knowledge and breadth of erudition, applied specialists are not enough somewhere (in the form of consultations, advanced training, creating educational and reference materials).
    However, it would be unwise to study Amharic or Malagasy at the same time as Spanish, as well as to study Italian or Norwegian at the same time as Chinese. And similar cases happen, for example, among students of the Russian State University for the Humanities studying in the specialty "comparative linguistics".

    This is exactly the case when "comparative linguistics" is language science, not the area applied translation... You just don't have to "hammer in nails with a microscope." If people with "scientific" degrees fall into applied fields, then it makes sense to conduct their pre-training. Yes, this is the case when a person with an academic education turns out to be not quite adequately prepared for applied activities, this is normal (exactly, as in the above example with engineers and natural scientists, it is naive to hope that a theoretical physicist will also be able to competently service a marine diesel , as a graduate of the specialty "Operation of ship power plants").

    If you train a translator in the field of military / diplomatic / business, then you need to provide expanded knowledge of history, ethnography, culture and religious studies, diplomacy, ethno-psychology, etiquette and conflict management. Especially focusing on the current state of affairs in the region where you will have to work. It is imperative to teach the languages ​​of those "players" who are now represented there, interaction with them will be mandatory. For example, in Africa, the expansion of China is now very strong. Therefore, in addition to local languages, French, English or Portuguese, Chinese may obviously be needed (which, when studying at the philological faculties of classical universities, may not be included in this list according to linguistic criteria).
    1. Sergey1964
      Sergey1964 21 September 2021 13: 19
      0
      Quote: grumbler
      Apprentice - solves the problem. Scientist - develops knowledge. This is a different method of thinking and education.

      Exactly. As a natural scientist who regularly has to solve both problems (extraction of knowledge and butt), I put a plus.
  15. sailor52
    sailor52 20 September 2021 15: 05
    0
    Quote: Dartik
    The problem is that we are still taught according to the old manuals that have already been arranged, to take the same English. The university teaches British-English, although most of the world speaks American-English. The filing of language learning is also outdated. When most of the time is spent on reading, and not on translation, and even more so pronunciation, and most importantly, they rarely give lessons because they pronounce the words.


    1. After graduating from a good school with a language bias, the opportunity to know foreign language. lang. on a good conversational level exists. 2. If a student decides to make a foreign language his profession and brings documents to a specialized university in a language specialty for a full-time department, there is no chance of not learning the language. At the same time, many people study in these specialties, who ... it would be better to enter some kind of management. They do not experience the pleasure of learning, they will not delve into the depths of the profession, and many moments simply will not pull mentally. 3. If it so happens that the student will have a decent knowledge of the British version of English, he will not get lost in American, too, believe me. The language system is the same. At this point, how lucky someone is, what is at hand, what opportunities. 4. In universities for these specialties, teachers for each course write educational and methodological complexes themselves, and they are updated, and they are far from primitive. 5. Your understanding of language teaching methods is also distorted. If the language is the main specialty, and the pronunciation is staged, and the translation is done, if it is a linguist-translator. 6. And most importantly, there are enormous resources on the Internet now, with teachers of native speakers, where any nuances of grammar, vocabulary, pronunciation, etc. are explained. There would be a desire. And it either is, or it is not.
  16. Sergey Averchenkov
    Sergey Averchenkov 20 September 2021 20: 27
    0
    We should first learn our own language ... I tried, but I'm not sure. :)