The data on the termination of the development of the oxygen-kerosene version of the "lunar" Russian rocket have been confirmed

_{The photo is illustrative.}

The information that Russia had stopped work on a super-heavy rocket, which was called the "lunar", was confirmed. We are talking about a rocket, the announcement of some changes in the development of which at the end of 2020 was indicated by the head of Roscosmos Dmitry Rogozin, noting that the rocket itself was named Yenisei (and also Don for an even heavier version). With the use of this rocket, they were going to carry out the implementation of the domestic lunar program.

Now the technical design of the rocket has been discontinued, which is confirmed by Dmitry Baranov, general director of the Progress RCC.

He told reporters about it. RIA News, while pointing out that the rocket implementation program requires some clarifications, after which the resumption of work may occur.

As it turns out, we can talk about the possibility of revising the main type of fuel for the Yenisei, which will affect the very appearance of the rocket, its dimensions. Instead of the oxygen-kerosene version of the "lunar" Russian rocket, work may resume for a methane-fueled rocket.

According to Dmitry Baranov, it was previously assumed that the design of the rocket would be completed by October of this year - within the framework of the STK Elements ROC.

Earlier, materials on the development of the RD-0169 oxygen-methane engine in Russia appeared in open sources. Such engines are more environmentally friendly. High efficiency with reusable use is also important. The planned engine thrust is about 200 tons.

Comments

[askort154]

The hen will lay an egg, then crow. For journalist Rogozin, the opposite is true.

[Finches]

"How can you roll the pepelats out of the garage without gravity?"

[askort154]

Zyablitsov ..."How can you roll the pepelats out of the garage without gravity?"


I always have a ready-to-use anti-gravity fluid in my garage.

[Alien From]

I suspect that "Spotykach"

[military_cat]

Rogozin's comment has already appeared there:

“The money that we planned to spend on superheavy, we are now throwing on the development of methane engines at the Khimavtomatika Design Bureau, because the methane engine will give us the opportunity to reuse the engines of a super-heavy rocket. there is enough in the country. And nothing good. And there will be a one-time flight around the Moon. What's next? If we want to create this system, then it must be reusable. Therefore, we'd better do a little later, but we will make it so that it will stimulate the development of compositional materials at Roskosmos, and systems, and alloys, and new engines, "Rogozin said.

We can congratulate you on coming to your senses. When the idea of ​​the Yenisei was just in its infancy, in order to raise patriotism, the media broadcasted the idea so deafeningly that reusable missiles were charlatanism, and there was nothing better in engines than ours. the most powerful in the world RD-171 and our RD-180, which Americans cannot repeat, it is impossible to create that it seems that not only the target audience, but also the decision-makers believed in it. As a result, they launched a one-time rocket project that was outdated even before birth.

But now, fortunately, they were allowed to, they removed the RD-171 and RD-180 (which are very good, but unsuitable for reusable carriers, so they should stay in their time), added reusability and methane (just like a charlatan and a fraudster), which for 2021 as reasonable and expedient as possible.

[Maverick1812]

Regarding the "charlatan" straight to the point !!!!

[Stas157]

Now the technical design of the rocket has been discontinued.

it was assumed that the design of the rocket would be completed by October of this year

But what about the money and time spent ... all down the drain?
Before designing, it was necessary to think about the methane engine, and not at the end, when the deadline is burning for the delivery of the project.

[Moore]

A chubby, talkative man with a journalism education said that the Yenisei project needed 700 yards of money.
The draft design is completed, judging by the fact that the technical one has begun, which is now stopped (or suspended) due to the intention to change the fuel. The sketch now also has to be partially revised.
How many managed to "master" from the above amount - then there is a great secret ...

[U-58]

Yes, it’s spent, it’s not so much. Sketch design and not a single piece of iron. Several million. We are definitely not talking about something grandiose.

[Stas157]

Well, the project must be completed by October, according to the contract. And there it is already to decide which is the best fit. And then such statements look ugly before the delivery of the project. The money has been spent, but the project has not been delivered.

[Alex_Bora]

How to say? A draft design can account for up to 10% of the work budget. With the declared cost of the entire project up to 700 yards, even 5% is a very impressive amount

[slipped]

Quote: U-58

Yes, it’s spent, it’s not so much. Sketch design and not a single piece of iron. Several million. We are definitely not talking about something grandiose.

It is useless to talk about it here. That there is a working process. Readers of "people's money" will still cry and shoot up drugs.

[Ingvar 72]

Quote: U-58

Yes, it’s spent, it’s not so much.

The amount announced for the development was announced accurately. Do you have links, how much is "a little" spent?

[g1v2]

The super-heavy rocket was essentially planned as a Soyuz-5 (Irtysh) with additional blocks. Work on the Irtysh began in fact 2-3 years ago. There is not even a head rocket yet - its separate blocks are being made and tested. This year they were just going to start assembling the first copy. Until the Irtysh is completed and it does not fly, you can only deal with the Yenisei as preparatory work and PR. Years 2-3 about it at all you can not remember. Again, the starting complex for the Yenisei will have to be built separately. And on the East, they are also building a table for the Angara. Baiterek at Baikonur for the Irtysh is also still under construction. The launch complex for the Yenisei will only begin to be built in 3-4 years.
In general, first the Angara, then the Irtysh, and only then they will begin to actively engage in super heavy Yenisei.

[slipped]

Quote: g1v2

The super-heavy rocket was essentially planned as a Soyuz-5 (Irtysh) with additional blocks.

A package of the first and second stages based on the first stage of the Soyuz-5 rocket.

Quote: g1v2

Work on the Irtysh began in fact 2-3 years ago.

In July 2018.

Quote: g1v2

There is not even a head rocket yet - its separate blocks are being made and tested. This year they were just going to start assembling the first copy.

Yes, a mockup for dynamic tests. At the same time, firing tests of the first stage engine were going on. Testing of the second stage engine is scheduled for next year.

Quote: g1v2

Until the Irtysh is completed and it does not fly, you can only deal with the Yenisei as preparatory work and PR. Years 2-3 about it at all you can not remember. Again, the starting complex for the Yenisei will have to be built separately. And on the East, they are also building a table for the Angara. Baiterek at Baikonur for the Irtysh is also still under construction. The launch complex for the Yenisei will only begin to be built in 3-4 years.
In general, first the Angara, then the Irtysh, and only then they will begin to actively engage in super heavy Yenisei.

Here is a fairly coherent "debriefing" close to reality. I respect.

[Nikolaevich I]

Quote: askort154

The hen will lay an egg, then crow

And I thought that the hen was cackling, and the rooster was crowing ...

[askort154]

Nikolaevich .....And I thought that the hen was clucking, and the rooster was crowing ...

Thanks for the tip. I haven't talked to these birds for a long time, I forgot which of them "crows".

[Stas157]

Quote: Nikolaevich I

And I thought that the hen was cackling, and the rooster was crowing ...

That insolent chicken that sits in Roskosmos, still crows! But it does not lay eggs at all. The project says it doesn't fit! It is necessary, they say, to take a technical break!

[slipped]

Quote: Stas157

But it does not lay eggs at all.

Very soon, such an egg will lay:

In general, there is a whole fleet of eggs in line:

and here's one more, in the heat of the heat:

[Evil543]

Question one, where is the money (rogo) Zin?

[Bshkaus]

Question one, where is the money (rogo) Zin?

My plus for the creature)))

[Evil543]

Thank you very much. Glad to

[Vadim237]

They haven't given him the money yet.

[Ingvar 72]

Quote: Vadim237

They haven't given him the money yet.

That's right Vadik, all the money went to PR in the media and the internet. Troll for simple.

[slipped]

Quote: Ingvar 72

That's right Vadik, all the money went to PR in the media and the internet. Troll for simple.

Not right. You were told - they did not give money for this. They will give something else.

[CYM]

Shame. When will he finally be sent by education and vocation to compose news in a yellow rag?

[Vladimir_2U]

Instead of the oxygen-kerosene version of the "lunar" Russian rocket, work may resume for a methane-fueled rocket.

Why waste time on trifles, we’ll wait for the antigrave and the Russian cosmonautics will take off right away! This throwing is already frankly shameful.

[Cosm22]

And why, in fact, be surprised?
This is the usual working scheme of Roscosmos.
First, shout to the whole world about a new grandiose project.
Then get financing for it.
Then announce a new, even more ingenious project, and throw away the old one.
Do we see a lot of progress in relation to Amur-LNG? Soyuz-6? "Rus-M"? Angara-3/7?

[hrych]

Quote: Cosm22

Do we see a lot of progress in relation to Amur-LNG? Soyuz-6? "Rus-M"? Angara-3/7?

The main thing is that we see progress in relation to Sarmat

[NDR-791]

Quote: hrych

The main thing is that we see progress in relation to Sarmat

This is because Rogozin is never present in the topic of Sarmat. Who has no time to crow into the vein, and who needs to work

[hrych]

Doesn't it work like Roscosmos? The test word is a space tug. The reversal of heavyweight design is solely due to Zeus. Which changes the concept of space exploration. Therefore, a heavyweight spirit is not needed. We decided on the programs, that's all. And you here again attacked Rogozin. As a matter of fact, he does not solve anything. What tasks the State and the Ministry of Defense, in particular, sets, they will do.

[NDR-791]

Quote: hrych

What tasks the State and the Ministry of Defense, in particular, sets, they will do.

Waste of funds? Don't you think, like me, that it looks somehow clumsy? For "money loves silence." And Roskosmos is exactly what type works

[hrych]

No funds. Once the program is stopped at the design stage, funding is also stopped. Rather, it will not be. Design work costs a penny on the scale of the Revolution. Well, maybe the designers have earned a pretty penny. Are you sorry?

[NDR-791]

Quote: hrych

Are you sorry?

The songwriter? Not at all sorry! If only I could keep my hands away from space. I will say even more. I'm a very kind person, Korolev would strangle him in the cradle

[Hypertension]

Quote: hrych

The test word is a space tug. The reversal of heavyweight design is solely due to Zeus.

Rather, the ancient Greek Zeus will descend from Olympus and launch vehicles into space with his own hand, than Roskosmos will give birth to something suitable for space exploration.
Wait another year or two, and your favorite nuclear tug will also be considered "unnecessary", as warp engines and other STS will be developed.

[hrych]

And who launched it yesterday? Zeus Olympic?

[Hypertension]

Duc is the RN Union. Soviet legacy. And we are talking about fundamentally new spacecraft.

[hrych]

Quote: Hyperion

Soviet heritage

And the Frigate?

[Hypertension]

Quote: hrych

And the Frigate?

Is this something fundamentally new? Previously, the upper stages were not used?
https://www.roscosmos.ru/28991/
You are writing about the "Revolution" in the field of space exploration.

[hrych]

The revolution is an atomic plane. And the launch vehicle of the super-heavy class is also nothing out of the ordinary. And the Frigate is highly sophisticated, versatile and digital. Under the Soviets, there were no compact satellites to scatter them in orbits, therefore there was sadness with such blocks.

[slipped]

Quote: hrych

And the Frigate is highly sophisticated, versatile and digital. Under the Soviets, there were no compact satellites to scatter them in orbits, therefore there was sadness with such blocks.

By the way, he has the 100th launch. There were no such cool overclocks under the Soviets.

[hrych]

Quote: slipped

By the way, he has the 100th launch.

Jubilee

[slipped]

Quote: hrych

Quote: slipped

By the way, he has the 100th launch.

Jubilee

Birthday party.

[Hypertension]

Quote: hrych

that's why there was sadness with such blocks

Why sadness, if in the text on the link that I gave (the site of Roskosmos m.p.) it is written:

The upper stage DM was created on the basis of the D block, which was developed according to the lunar program N1-LZ and for the first time successfully worked in flight as part of the L1 complex (with the Proton rocket) on March 10, 1967. The upper stage DM is characterized by high reliability, confirmed by more than 30 years of operation, and the ability to repeatedly turn on the main engine, which makes it possible to perform the necessary orbital maneuvers.

What was required at that time from the Republic of Belarus - everything corresponded.

[slipped]

Quote: Hyperion

Why sadness

Because the deck flew through the stump. Remind me who destroyed Mars-96? Or lunar stations before that?

Quote: Hyperion

The upper stage DM is characterized by high reliability ...

Well, yes, so many years of operation on the Protons. Gradually licked. Now, of course, it's a good block. But there is a Frigate on the Soyuz.

Quote: Hyperion

What was required at that time from the Republic of Belarus - everything corresponded.

These are generally different blocks in terms of functionality.

[Hypertension]

Quote: slipped

Remind me who destroyed Mars-96?

Who? Or rather, what? I think this is the fault of the 90s - decay, devastation, chaos, reduction of specialists, etc.

Quote: slipped

Or lunar stations before that?

31 accidents. 7 - due to problems with RB. So RB is not the main culprit. Well, why, in general, there is a high level of accidents - I think you can guess - at the forefront of scientific thought, all kinds of emergencies often lie in wait.

Quote: slipped

But there is a Frigate on the Soyuz.

Let it stand, am I against it? The frigate is a good RB, it was just a conversation about a revolution in the space industry, in particular about a space nuclear tug.

[slipped]

Quote: Hyperion

Who? Or rather, what? I think this is the fault of the 90s - decay, devastation, chaos, reduction of specialists, etc.

The upper stage dropped the station without issuing an output pulse to the departure trajectory. Something like this.

Quote: Hyperion

31 accidents. 7 - due to problems with RB. So RB is not the main culprit.

And what has it to do with the main or not the main one - out of 11 stations of the third generation for the delivery of lunar soil, in five cases there was a failure of the RB.

Quote: Hyperion

Let it stand, am I against it? The frigate is a good RB, it was just a conversation about a revolution in the space industry, in particular about a space nuclear tug.

What does TEM have to do with it? He has a different specialization. Yes, there is a proposal to use such a technology for launching to the GSO, but with the help of the standard "Briza-M" they are already throwing a load on the geostationary, which is much larger than the standard launch vehicle can even bring - this is also a revolution in itself.

TEM is for another - it is to the orbit of the Moon and there, after refueling, further to Venus and the satellites of Jupiter.

[Hypertension]

Quote: slipped

What does TEM have to do with it?

Yes, despite the fact that in our dialogue with Khrych, where you also entered, the conversation turned specifically about TEM "Zeus". But then the discussion slipped to RB, as an example that Roskosmos did not sleep through all the polymers.

[slipped]

Quote: Hyperion

[Yes, despite the fact that in our dialogue with Khrych, where you also entered, the conversation turned specifically about TEM "Zeus". But then the discussion slipped to RB, as an example that Roskosmos did not sleep through all the polymers.

So I told you that our modern RB can do much more than before.

[Hypertension]

Quote: slipped

So I told you that our modern RB can do much more than before.

This is how it should be in theory. Development, progress - that's all. With RB it turns out, but with RN somehow it is not very good. Already the Yenisei turned out to be "not needed". According to Khrych - in favor of Zeus. But most likely - and Zeus will follow Yenisei.

[slipped]

Quote: Hyperion

This is how it should be in theory. Development, progress - that's all.

The same RB Frigate is now being designed in the SBU version for the Soyuz-5 launch vehicle. And for the "Angara-A5" launch vehicle, two new DM-class missile launchers have already been released and are preparing for their flight;

Quote: Hyperion

With RB it turns out, but with RN somehow it is not very good.

What do you have "not very"? We are now conducting flight design tests of the Angara spacecraft under the auspices of the Ministry of Defense. There were three test launches, the fourth is next - the assembly of the Angara-A5 launch vehicle at the Plesetsk cosmodrome has already begun, and at the end of the year the first standard light version is also flying.

Quote: Hyperion

Already the Yenisei turned out to be "not needed". According to Khrych - in favor of Zeus. But most likely - and Zeus will follow Yenisei.

You have the wrong premise from the start. And the conclusion too. The fact that it turned out that in the process of designing the Russian rocket spacecraft, the STK turned out to be oversized for our future purposes at such an early stage of creation - this is very good - they saved their budget for other purposes, much more profitable and pragmatic. A TEM is placed under GO A5B.

[Hypertension]

Quote: slipped

What it turned out that in the process of designing the Russian rocketry spacecraft, the STK turned out to be oversized for our future purposes at such an early stage of creation

Something often in our design and forecasting is done with large errors. The same Crimean bridge - the estimate during the construction has increased 10 times.

Quote: slipped

A TEM is placed under GO A5B.

In the meantime, neither TEM, except for drawings and a model, nor A5B, the first launch of which is scheduled for the 27th year.

[slipped]

Quote: Hyperion

Quote: slipped

A TEM is placed under GO A5B.

In the meantime, neither TEM, except for drawings and a model, nor A5B, the first launch of which is scheduled for the 27th year.

So both are not present in the current federal space program, but there is only R&D on these topics - design models of TEM and KVTK elements just from this stage of the creation of these devices. In addition, it is required to build the necessary infrastructure at the cosmodrome - and now the construction of a launch pad at Vostochny and other related nomenclature is underway. For example, just recently, a workstation was mounted at MIC for the preparation of upper stages of the "DM" type, which will work in tandem with the "Angara" launch vehicle according to the plans of the current FKP:

Sometimes I have the idea that many commentators here are trying to run ahead of the locomotive in their Wishlist. Be consistent.

[Hypertension]

Quote: slipped

I sometimes have the idea that many commentators here are trying to run ahead of the locomotive in their Wishlist.

Likewise. While, as you wrote, R&D on TEM is underway, Hrych mentally has already furrowed the floor of the Galaxy on Zeus. At least I got the same impression. Whatever article about the space industry - Hrych is right there with his nuclear tug with a quantum emitter. As if this TEM is literally going to fly tomorrow. Although there are still years of waiting before that, or maybe we won't wait at all.

[slipped]

Quote: Hyperion

Although there are still years of waiting

This decade. After the completion of the construction of the third stage of Vostochny.

Quote: Hyperion

maybe we won't wait at all.

? Too much has already been invested in the project not to "wait" for it. By the way, the financing of the project goes on a separate line.

[Hypertension]

Quote: slipped

This decade.

life tests should be completed by 2030, flight tests of the device are planned for the 2030s

Quote: slipped

Too much has already been invested in the project not to "wait" for it. By the way, the financing of the project goes on a separate line.

For 2018, the approximate cost of the project is estimated at 8 billion 250 million rubles

115 million dollars
Or is it not the whole amount? So, for comparison: the launch of the Proton - 70 million dollars.

In 2014, the construction of the Angara-5 heavy rocket cost 4,5 billion rubles.

https://cs14.pikabu.ru/video/2021/08/23/1629729385241766740_1080x1080.webm

[slipped]

Quote: Hyperion

life tests should be completed by 2030, flight tests of the device are planned for the 2030s

Quote: Hyperion

115 million dollars
Or is it not the whole amount?

You miscalculated. Those rubles that were laid in the previous contracts had a different rate.

[Hypertension]

What did you want to say / show with a picture?

Quote: slipped

You miscalculated.

Perhaps. That's why I asked - the whole amount? Well, let it be twice as much. Like launching three Protons. On the one hand, the amount is rather big, of course, but for such a revolutionary project as TEM - it is, as it were, not much. This I mean that you wrote "too much invested" to stop development.

[slipped]

Quote: Hyperion

What did you want to say / show with a picture?

TEM flight plan. Everything is clearly shown there.

Quote: Hyperion

Perhaps. That's why I asked - the whole amount? Well, let it be twice as much. Like launching three Protons. On the one hand, the amount is rather big, of course, but for such a revolutionary project as TEM - it is, as it were, not much. This I mean that you wrote "too much invested" to stop development.

From 2020 to 2024 alone, 4,2 billion rubles are allocated for R&D. In fact, an average of a billion a year. This is from open sources.

[Hypertension]

Quote: slipped

TEM flight plan. Everything is clearly shown there.

Completion dates are not shown there. In the 30s, only flight tests are planned, and when TEM begins its full-fledged mission, the terms are not negotiated.

Quote: slipped

In fact, an average of a billion a year.

Which is equal to 1/2 the cost of the Su-35. Is it big money for such a breakthrough project? If carried to the end, it will be a brilliant achievement. But the reputation of Roskosmos, you yourself know ... That is why doubts arise.

[Cosm22]

How amusing these references to all sorts of nucleons-Zeus, stemming from the understanding of the powerlessness of the RK to make superheavy! You can talk about such nonsense for hours, listen to Konanykhin for the night, then forget yourself a happy dream.
I will not go into the problems of heat transfer, we will assume that they have been successfully resolved, like all the others that Roscosmos is tackling.
I will ask a simple question: this is a miracle of engineering ("Zeus") how to send your thoughts into space? From the surface of the Earth? Then do not forget to invite David Copperfield to this performance, he will be interested.
Collect in orbit? Even more interesting. Do you have experience of similar work? So far, even OS modules dock with attempts.
Launch with LEO? Sober thought. And how to get to LEO for the space tug? Even if "Nuclon" according to the PZ was not supposed to exceed the weight of 55 tons? And how we fit into the weight framework, we know perfectly well from the long-suffering "Eagle-Federation".
How to get at least 55 tons to LEO? Proton cannot. The most sophisticated "Angara" will pull (in the very distant future) only 38 tons.
Than???
Nothing. Nothing today. And tomorrow will be nothing.
After that, will we continue to argue that superheavy is not needed?

[hrych]

I am amused by commentators like you. And powerlessness is at your Yuzhny Design Bureau And it is better not to compare yourself with Kananykhin, because in contrast to him he pooped in the comments on Roscosmos and is satisfied, there is no use for anything else. Kanonykhin is only a popular journalist, and Zeus does those. who has no time to shit in the comments By the way. and how is Science? Still not flying? Or "masterpiece" did not fly? How are your prophecies? Or has another Wanga leaked?

Quote: Cosm22

Collect in orbit? Even more interesting. Do you have experience of similar work? So far, even the OS modules are docked.

And this is much more difficult than docking a huge module with a station?

struggling

You shouldn't transfer your feelings in the restroom to the cosmic level.

[Cosm22]

Interesting ... What do I have to do with the Yuzhnoye design bureau? Probably the same as you are about the administration of the President of the Russian Federation? Are you so worried about Ukraine that you can't eat without remembering it? Then it's a clinic. Hang a map of Ukraine at the head of your bed, perhaps it will help.
When and where did I say that "Science" will not fly? I pointed only to long-term construction and misses with software. When and where did I say that the problems with the docking with "Science" ended?
The huge module is only twenty tonnes. With the docking of which there were big discrepancies. Starting from the moment of separation from the carrier. Should I list them?
Replace the word "attempts" with "failures". Will it sweeten the pill?

[hrych]

And you are so worried about Russia and its space program, even to the point of trying. You can enumerate lies, but the launch vehicle successfully launched, launched a module into the target orbit, which successfully flew to the ISS and docked. Later, he swayed a little, which is brilliantly compensated by our own Progress. So what? Everything is rotten for you, but everything is great for us, moreover, the activation of automation and compensation for an emergency situation speaks of the stability of the system and reliability. Now a cable is connected to it, during normal operation in open space. People work despite the barking, and the head of NASA congratulated on the SUCCESSFUL docking and entry of Science into the ISS. Go and argue with the head of NASA and there is no need to fool your head. Science still lying on the ground was completely smeared with someone's virtual snot I have personally read your prophecies and all the moves, by the way, have been written down.

[Cosm22]

The module flew to the station abnormally and docked to it in principle abnormally.
The traffic police flight cannot be called successful. Understand to start with the remote control.
"Brilliantly compensated" so that an emergency was declared at the station? Apparently, NASA has different ideas about "brilliance".
It is impossible to recognize a successful flight, in which gaps with software were revealed, as the three of them announced Soloviev, Krikalev and Rogozin. Such a flight and such a docking can be considered only partially successful. And pay tribute to the miracle.
By the way, about the software. I am beginning to understand your attachment to Ukraine. While Hartron was doing SU for twenty tonnes, there were no problems. Neither Zarya nor Zvezda. After the so-called import substitution of control systems manufactured by RSC Energia, software problems began to fall like a cornucopia.

[hrych]

Quote: Cosm22

partially successful

Sturgeon cannot be fresh, it can be either fresh or rotten. If Science is part of the ISS, then the task is completed. And if it exploded at the start, did not enter the target orbit and fell on Zhmerinka, rammed the ISS, then it would fail. There is no other way. No, you continue to argue with the Director of NASA, throw in a wide word - "partially" Partially pregnant

[slipped]

Quote: hrych

Quote: Cosm22

partially successful

Sturgeon cannot be fresh, it can be either fresh or rotten. If Science is part of the ISS, then the task is completed. And if it exploded at the start, did not enter the target orbit and fell on Zhmerinka, rammed the ISS, then it would fail. There is no other way. No, you continue to argue with the Director of NASA, throw in a wide word - "partially" Partially pregnant

I just roll with laughter We have cosmonauts, the module has been unloaded, have already gone into space twice, the entire module has been climbed up and down, and with it "partially successfully". Everyone cannot believe that the module is at the station.

[slipped]

Quote: Cosm22

Do we see a lot of progress in relation to Amur-LNG? Soyuz-6? "Rus-M"? Angara-3/7?

It is strange that he kept silent about the successful and systematic creation of the Soyuz-5 carriers and the Angara complex.

Amur-LNG will be made in the next FKP instead of Soyuz-6.

Angara - 3/7 - were not planned at all, but were only proposed for consideration, but did not pass for implementation in the last decade.

[Cosm22]

slipped, you either take off the cross, or put on the lower part of the wardrobe. Either I am your opponent or not, as you publicly stated not so long ago.
If not an opponent, I didn’t invite you in my comment, I don’t submit on Wednesdays either.
The "planned" creation of the S-5 is, you must understand, a photo of a certain cylinder that wanders from resource to resource? And the cheerful reports of the RK? So this is food only for cheers-patriots, adequate people use another.
As for "to be done" and other excursions into the future ...
I value my time too much to waste it on absolutely pointless discussions with the training manuals. Therefore, I made a decision: to answer all such nonsense about a wonderful tomorrow (if they will deign to recognize me as an opponent) with a prepared template. Like this:
"everything is not worse with us ... it is being done ... it is being developed ... blah blah blah ... on the way ... it will be ... in 2025 ... in 2030 ... blah blah- blah ... after a rain on Thursday ... preparing ... when the cancer on the mountain whistles ... projected ... blah blah blah ... preparing for production ... methods are being mastered ... options are being considered .. . blah-blah-blah ... it is expected ... will be ... after the second coming ... blah-blah-blah ... the question is being studied ... it is being researched ... there are prospects ... there are reasons to believe .. . blah-blah-blah ... planned capacities ... expected start-up ... development is nearing completion ... blah-blah-blah ... donkey or padishah - which first? .. supposed start ... blah-bla- blah ... there is complete confidence that ... blah blah blah ... "

[slipped]

Quote: Cosm22

slipped, you either take off the cross, or put on the lower part of the wardrobe. Either I am your opponent or not, as you publicly stated not so long ago.

Scared again?

Quote: Cosm22

If not an opponent, I didn’t invite you in my comment, I don’t submit on Wednesdays either.

Actually.

Quote: Cosm22

The "planned" creation of the S-5 is, you must understand, a photo of a certain cylinder that wanders from resource to resource?

This?

So this "cylinder" is the rocket tank with fittings. By God, it's as if I'm talking to a schoolboy. By the end of the year, this assembly will leave for TsNIIMash for annual factory dynamic tests as part of a stage.

Quote: Cosm22

And the cheerful reports of the RK? So this is food only for cheers-patriots, adequate people use another.

I have no doubt that they do.

[Ingvar 72]

Quote: Cosm22

This is the usual working scheme of Roscosmos.
First, shout to the whole world about a new grandiose project.

This is a common pattern in all Putinomics. I can throw a dozen such examples, when innovations that have no analogs in the world stupidly merged into the trash.

[slipped]

Quote: Ingvar 72

This is a common pattern in all Putinomics. I can throw a dozen such examples, when innovations that have no analogs in the world stupidly merged into the trash.

I will also give you a couple of photos from not so long ago "leaked into the trash heap":

also unparalleled in the world of innovation, right?

[Ingvar 72]

Quote: slipped

also unparalleled in the world of innovation, right?

The Zaputins have a complete mess. Why are you inserting photos of American vehicles? Compare their successes in space programs, and ours.

[slipped]

Quote: Ingvar 72

The Zaputins have a complete mess.

Are you personally a Pereputin? Or a non-friend? And you are anti-Putin. It's clear.

Quote: Ingvar 72

Why are you inserting photos of American vehicles?

Then, that they have these very innovations that have no analogues in the world stupidly merged into the trash, is it unclear to you?

Quote: Ingvar 72

Compare their successes in space programs, and ours.

We are making excellent progress in our space programs. Open your eyes.

[Ingvar 72]

Quote: slipped

We are making excellent progress in our space programs. Open your eyes.

Holy, holy! Blessed is he who believes!

[slipped]

Quote: Ingvar 72

Holy, holy! Blessed is he who believes!

"Yes, not in an image, but in something like a candle" © not mine.

[Ingvar 72]

Quote: slipped

Yes, not in an image, but in something like a candle "© not mine.

I noticed! Your "wonderful success" looks ridiculous and ridiculous against the background of the achievements of China and the United States.

[slipped]

Quote: Ingvar 72

[I noticed! Your "wonderful success" looks ridiculous and ridiculous against the background of the achievements of China and the United States.

Oh whether. You are simply engaged in essence or blind from birth.

[Ingvar 72]

Why are you conducting a dialogue with me? So then to poke minus on each answer?
Are you not afraid that the poke will dry out?

[slipped]

Quote: Ingvar 72

Why are you conducting a dialogue with me? So then to poke minus on each answer?

Of course, it gives me pleasure. Dunk you into your commitment.

Quote: Ingvar 72

Are you not afraid that the poke will dry out?

This is a threat? Well, you can write a denunciation to the moderator, I'm no stranger to it. People like you here like to write different denunciations

[Ingvar 72]

Quote: slipped

Dunk you into your commitment.

While you dunk only yourself, indulging your pride. I don’t care about the minuses, which is why I don’t give them to anyone.

Quote: slipped

Well, you can write a denunciation to the moderator, I'm no stranger

This is for your companion from Putin, Ko Manul, he is Golovan Jack, he is the Consultant, and many others. I was not a drummer, and in my old age I am not going to.
And the tykalka will dry up for other, higher reasons. Sooner or later, everything ugly that people do on earth returns to them.

[slipped]

Quote: Ingvar 72

While you dunk only yourself, indulging your pride.

Why is that? I only have a story about our achievements with illustrations.

Quote: Ingvar 72

I don’t care about the minuses, which is why I don’t give them to anyone.

Think of it as just an emoji.

Quote: Ingvar 72

This is for your companion from Putin, Ko Manul, he is Golovan Jack, he is the Consultant, and many others. I was not a drummer, and in my old age I am not going to.

Here and without you your non-Putin well-wishers are enough.

Quote: Ingvar 72

And the tykalka will dry up for other, higher reasons. Sooner or later, everything ugly that people do on earth returns to them.

Have you been offended in any way in your life? Do you want to discuss this? What does this personal thing have to do with our successful space program?

[Ingvar 72]

Quote: slipped

Why is that? I only have a story about our achievements with illustrations.

Achievements are when you are the first among competitors. This is when compared.

Quote: slipped

Have you been offended in any way in your life? Do you want to discuss this?

Yes I want to. I was born in a great country with the greatest achievements in technology, social and health care. Now I see only pathetic attempts and attempts to present regression for achievements.
And it insults me.

[slipped]

Quote: Ingvar 72

Achievements are when you are the first among competitors. This is when compared.

Well, we are the first in space radio and X-ray astronomy, the first to create and successfully operate an ultra-long baseline radio interferometer, the first to control large space structures of more than 400 tons ... then what? Have you forgotten that for almost all the nineties and zeroes we had no funding for our space programs and that is why the previous FKP was disrupted?

We only recently began to slowly accelerate again.

[Ingvar 72]

Quote: slipped

We only recently began to slowly accelerate again.

Will they accelerate where, back? And what does recently mean? Do you know how much money has been poured into Roskosmos over the past 10 years?

[slipped]

Quote: Ingvar 72

Will they accelerate where, back?

Forward. We regularly launch the newest high-tech spacecraft into space. A domestic highly elliptical arctic satellite has just been commissioned after testing.

The group of small spacecraft is growing, including domestic applied nanosatellites,

expanding the ISS with new modules, etc. etc.

Quote: Ingvar 72

And what does recently mean?

The current PCF started in 2016. It says what will be launched in the period from 2016-2025. With a slight shift in some projects, mainly related to ongoing import substitution, everything is going according to plan.

Quote: Ingvar 72

Do you know how much money has been poured into Roskosmos over the past 10 years?

And they will pour in more, since a lot has to be raised from scratch. For example, we have already completely substituted import for our new launch vehicles (KRK Angara, Soyuz-5). We are moving on to a new domestic EEE (RKS). We build and open the newest workshops at our production facilities ("ISS im.Reshenyov", RCC "Progress", "NPO Lavochkina"). We create these production facilities ourselves (Gazprom Shchelkovo). This applies to the entire industry.

[Ingvar 72]

Quote: slipped

Forward.

Everything is relative. Your helmsman has been in power for 20 years, and the results are getting funnier every year. To understand this, you just need to compare the results of these 20 years with any period of time under the USSR, with the exception of the Second World War. And no amount of illustrations will hide these facts.

[slipped]

Quote: Ingvar 72

Everything is relative. Your helmsman has been in power for 20 years ...

You have deviated from the topic. We kind of talked about space? Not?

Quote: Ingvar 72

And no amount of illustrations will hide these facts.

Did you gouge your eye out? It happens. This is what is happening here and now in Russian space. Only today they sent "Proton-M" to Baikonur, and a couple of days earlier two "Soyuz-2ST" were sent to Guiana to the French. And a little earlier, our cosmonauts climbed into space:

[Ingvar 72]

Quote: slipped

You have deviated from the topic. We kind of talked about space? Not?

There is no need to repeat the calculations of the achievements of Roscosmos. They are, it is obvious, how obvious is how scanty these achievements are in comparison with the United States and China.
And if we compare the percentage of "exhaust" from investments, in the ratio of amounts to results, it will become clear that Roskosmos is in fact Rospil.
And then all your zaputinskie achievements will be zilch.

[Letun]

Quote: Vladimir_2U

Why waste time on trifles, we’ll wait for the antigrave and the Russian cosmonautics will take off right away! These throwing are already frankly shameful.

Well, yes, as in that joke, today we will sleep, and tomorrow we will immediately run along the Moscow Ring Road

[Ingvar 72]

Something is not even funny anymore. The Rogozin office cannot do anything except disbursement of funds. And despite such results, the country's top leadership for some reason does not want to change this effective manager, with a salary higher than that of the head of NASA.

[Finches]

Well, why, today the Soyuz-2.1b launch vehicle with the Fregat upper stage at 21:07 Moscow time was launched from the Baikonur cosmodrome to launch 34 British communication satellites OneWeb into orbit. So what else, something can ... Another question is that there are no breakthrough things! Like the same Mask! And I have a suspicion that you need to dig deeper - there are no cadres capable of coming up with something and this is due to the collapse of domestic fundamental education! There are doctors of sciences, but there is no science!

[Sergey1964]

Quote: Finches

And I have a suspicion that you need to dig deeper - there are no cadres capable of coming up with something and this is due to the collapse of domestic fundamental education!

Not only fundamental. Higher education in general has slipped below the plinth - I can say this as a professor who knows firsthand the situation in various universities, and not only in my native Krasnoyarsk. The main reason, in my opinion, is the lack of mass effective demand (keywords - mass and solvent) for highly qualified personnel. There is a piece demand, but modern education in its essence cannot be guided by piece demand.
Well, plus to this the monstrous bureaucratization of the educational process, the amount of paperwork in comparison with the USSR and the 90s ... zero is simply off scale.
Well, plus - beggarly financing. Not in terms of salaries (although salaries are also not high), but in terms of the possibility of purchasing modern equipment. Modern equipment is very expensive and becomes obsolete in 5-6 years.
But the root cause, in my opinion, is that there is no massive effective demand for highly qualified personnel in the Russian economy.

As for Space specifically, I foresee that manned space exploration in Russia will eventually suffer the same fate that befell the AMS. There will remain launches into orbit in the interests of the military, communications and remote sensing, and that's it.

[blackberry]

Quote: Finches

there are no cadres capable of coming up with something and this is due to the collapse of domestic fundamental education

This is what one official denounced by the authorities said: “We need literate consumers"What they wanted - what they got

[slipped]

Quote: Finches

Well, why, today the Soyuz-2.1b launch vehicle with the Fregat upper stage at 21:07 Moscow time was launched from the Baikonur cosmodrome to launch 34 British communication satellites OneWeb into orbit. So what else, something can ...

For example, 332 Vanweb satellites have already been launched into orbit into the light.

Quote: Finches

Another question is that there are no breakthrough things!

Another question is that there is a Federal Space Program adopted in 2016, and it clearly states what should be done before 2025. And it is being successfully and consistently carried out.

[Nikolaevich I]

Quote: Ingvar 72

the top leadership of the country for some reason does not want to change this d'effective manager,

Qualified "Goebbels" of propaganda are always needed by any government!

[fa2998]

In principle, I was waiting for a similar end of the "project."

[slipped]

Quote: fa2998

In principle, I was waiting for a similar end of the "project."

Another waiting? What kind of funding? The current FKP does not have such a medium.

[Dimy4]

Another zip of the presidential henchman.

[ccsr]

Quote: Dimy4

Another zip of the presidential henchman.

The problem is completely different, and it is not in Rogozin, although his appointment is from the same series as the appointment of Serdyukov to the Ministry of Defense, i.e. absolutely disastrous. Whoever you put at the head of Roscosmos, something will not change dramatically in this organization for one reason - we still have not been able to eliminate that failure of the economy of the nineties and zero, when we lost the country's enormous technical potential, and funding for R&D in the space sector slid down almost to zero. All attempts to catch up on lost time in a year or two or three are just a whim, for this you need to create a school of young people from scratch, then we will be able to get ahead with normal funding by the end of this decade. But for dreamers of Martian apple trees, I want to remind you that military space is more important to us, and therefore roll your lips, and do not expect that the magician Rogozin will change the distribution of funds. So spit less in his direction - he is just a pawn in this game, and the military will not allow a reduction in their funding for the sake of moon landing projects or other nonsense of deep space. This is why cut back on your expectations ...

[tone]

How many billions we sawed on "development" is interesting.

[Nikolaevich I]

Quote: tone

How many billions we sawed on "development" is interesting.

... Ostap Bender got interested.

[KCA]

How many billions were sawed in the USSR on the N-1 lunar rocket, and not only on development, but also on the manufacture of as many as 4 pieces, and then they spat and forgot, the design of such complex systems as a booster rocket, it is such a design ...

[MBRSS]

in production as many as 4 pieces

five pieces. The fifth had every chance to fly with the new engines. But Glushko came and lost everything. But mind you - there was an exhaust in the form of iron, in a short time. Here we decided to wait for what Musk would do there.

[KCA]

Most likely, they decided to wait for the methane-oxygen engine and make the 1st stage reusable, the kerosene burns out in one start, does not reuse in any way, and the methane engine does not burn out, well, they decided to arrange reusability to please all-knowing popular critics

[Cosm22]

Um ...
Did you know that Merlin is also a kerosene stove? And that Falcon-9 flies perfectly on these engines? And sits down. Moreover, it is reusable. Some steps - ten times. And nothing burns out there.
If we are talking about creating a superheavy methane engine, then these are empty hopes. There will be nothing equal to the Raptor engine with its complete gasification scheme of components and its characteristics in Russia. In any case, during our life with you.
I am not suggesting that we will not have a working methane engine at all. Perhaps it will be created. But to adapt it as a central bank to super-heavy is a utopia. There you need special TX.
We could fix the TTU case. But we always had problems with them.
So we are guided by the prophecy of Mr. Rogozin on superheavy. According to him, we will fly to the moon on the "Angara". Four-ball, six-ball, n-ball - this is how the card will fall. And when the cancer whistles on the mountain.

[MBRSS]

Pralna! Therefore, fuck this methane, it is necessary to reanimate the Energy (starting with RD-0120), if at all we do not want to lag behind by 30 years (i.e. forever). My disappointing prognosis is already behind.

[parusnik]

Is it the beginning of the end or the end of the beginning?

[Catfish]

This is the sound of everything.

[Evil543]

This is something endless (budget cut)

[Vadim237]

This decision is associated with the creation of a super-heavy rocket with recoverable first stages - instead of kerosene oxygen disposable in order to reduce the cost of launching. The most important thing is that RD 0169 would be created and it flew on an Amur LNG rocket in 2026.

[Bradley]

It's a shame that OCD has stopped. It is a pity that this will push the already domestic lunar program into the back burner.
I would like to write differently, but you can't swear.

[slipped]

Quote: Bradley

It's a shame that OCD has stopped. It is a pity that this will push the already domestic lunar program into the back burner.

The domestic lunar program will begin with the launch of the Luna-25 station. The launch is scheduled for the second quarter of next year today. The station is being tested.

[sergo1914]

Well, right. Fig this moon. Anyone can go to the moon. Let's fly directly to Alpha Centauri. You have to go with the trump cards.

[alch3mist]

Let's fly directly to Alpha Centauri.

Alpha is brighter, but Beta is closer.

[Sling cutter]

Quote: sergo1914

Well, right. Fig this moon. Anyone can go to the moon. Let's fly directly to Alpha Centauri. You have to go with the trump cards.

"I walked the Milky Way and admired the pulsar flashes,
I didn't care where to go
To Perseus or to Stozhary "(c)

[Ros 56]

Isn't it time to send a joint commission of the Investigative Committee and deputies to Roscosmos to check the activities of the leadership of the aforementioned department. There are too many miracles going on there.

[slipped]

Quote: Ros 56

Isn't it time to send a joint commission of the Investigative Committee and deputies to Roscosmos to check the activities of the leadership of the aforementioned department. There are too many miracles going on there.

When these commissions see everything with their own eyes, they go crazy with the scale of the work and silently, with a wish for success, return to their main responsibilities.

[Ros 56]

on the scale of work

It depends on what you mean by this, you probably think, there is quiet and smooth and all white and fluffy? Apparently not, then the sensor will be screwed upside down, then holes appear from somewhere, then the rockets fall. I understand such jambs on experimental designs, it happens, but on serial ones, this is too much. And the fish, you know yourself, goes out from the head, an example of this is the fate of the USSR. And therefore it is necessary to periodically carry out preventive measures so that later it would not be excruciatingly painful for wasted money and, most importantly, time.

[Andrei Nikolaevich]

Our villagers had an electric boiler in deficiency - we washed in basins. But we continued to "explore space routes."

[Vovan]

How the local liberals do not like the fact that the rockets stopped falling under Rogozin - a mess! Optimization of previously started programs is bad: you give different and a lot of things and for a lot of money! Apparently, they pressed the testicles hard for lovers of the uncontrolled development of sovereign funds.

[slipped]

Quote: Vovan

How the local liberals do not like the fact that the rockets stopped falling under Rogozin - a mess! Optimization of previously started programs is bad: you give different and a lot of things and for a lot of money! Apparently, they pressed the testicles hard for lovers of the uncontrolled development of sovereign funds.

By the way, yesterday was the 66th successful launch of our launch vehicle in a row.

[Sergey1964]

Quote: slipped

By the way, yesterday was the 66th successful launch of our launch vehicle in a row.

By the way, yesterday was already the 96th or 97th successful launch of Ilona Mask's Falcon-9 in a row. Another batch of Starlinks, 51 pieces. The first stage (booster B1049.10) flew for the 10th time. And once again she successfully boarded the barge.

[slipped]

Quote: Sergey1964

By the way, yesterday was already the 96th or 97th successful launch of Ilona Mask's Falcon-9 in a row. Another batch of Starlinks, 51 pieces. The first stage (booster B1049.10) flew for the 10th time. And once again she successfully boarded the barge.

Yes, the flag in his hands or somewhere else. What does his launches have to do with ours? None. Unless it launches potential targets for our POC funds.

As for our space launches, we perform commercial launches very well and with high quality, as the payload is delivered from the customer. The next commercial will be from Vostochny in a month.

[Sergey1964]

Quote: slipped

Launching our carrier

Quote: slipped

we very good and high quality we carry out commercial launches

Wait, I'm confused. Do you (I mean - you personally) participate in the manufacture of launch vehicles, or provide launches?

[slipped]

Quote: Sergey1964

Wait, I'm confused. Do you (I mean - you personally) participate in the manufacture of launch vehicles, or provide launches?

Ours means Russian production. I live in Russia. Well, it's like - "Vasily Ivanovich - ours ..."

And my very good old friends participate in the assembly of the launch vehicles and provide launches.

[Sergey1964]

Quote: slipped

Ours means Russian production. I live in Russia.

It's clear. "We plowed" ((c) The fable about the ox and the fly). It's funny.
I also live in Russia, but in наших circles "we have made / studied / developed ..." always means that the speaker "we" personally and directly participated in this "made / studied / developed ...". For example, I say "we helped the Chinese to create Yuegong-1", because I personally participated in the team that helped. And "we launched Foton-M2014 in 4" I will not say any more, since I did not participate in the launch, but participated only in carrying out one experiment on this very Foton.

Quote: slipped

And my very good old friends participate in the assembly of the launch vehicles and provide launches.

My very good old friends are involved in a lot and provide a lot. But it would never even enter my head to claim co-authorship in their successes and achievements.

I suggest not to be limited to Russia. After all, we all live on planet Earth and are members of the same species, H. sapiens. So, today we we can boast of two achievements in manned astronautics.
1. Мы for the first time a completely civilian crew was launched into Space (consisting of 4 people, SpaceX's Crew Dragon, launched into orbit by the Falcon 9 launch vehicle of the same company).
2. Today the manned spacecraft "Shenzhou-12" with a crew of three taikonauts on board separated from the Chinese orbital station to return to Earth. The crew worked on board the station for 90 days. Thereby we updated the record for the duration of a single space flight for Chinese taikonauts.

[Sergey1964]

PS
Yes, I forgot. Today is another significant achievement. According to the historian of astronautics Alexander Zheleznyakov, the record of 1995 was broken, when 13 people were simultaneously in space (6 on Mir, 7 on the Shuttle). The record was repeated in 2009 on the ISS, and today it has been broken. There are 14 people in space at the same time (three Chinese on Shenzhou-12, four Americans on Dragon, three Americans, two Russians, one French and one Japanese on the ISS).
So in addition to the previous post
3. Мы broke the historical record for the number of people simultaneously in space.

[slipped]

Quote: Sergey1964

It's clear. "We plowed" ((c) The fable about the ox and the fly). It's funny.

It seems to me that you are looking in the wrong direction. We plowed in the 90s, and now we have long been capitalists-proprietors.

Quote: Sergey1964

I also live in Russia ...

Are you proud of the achievements of your homeland or are you offended and quietly hate it? Write somehow incomprehensibly.

Quote: Sergey1964

My very good old friends are involved in a lot and provide a lot. But it would never even enter my head to claim co-authorship in their successes and achievements.

Strange thinking. Your friends provide Russian launches, not their own.

Quote: Sergey1964

I suggest not to be limited to Russia. After all, we all live on planet Earth and are members of the same species, H. sapiens.

I suggest not to be limited to the planet Earth at all. What kind of blizzard have you suffered?

Quote: Sergey1964

So, today we we can boast of two achievements in manned astronautics.

Only two ?! Fuck. And all the other achievements - this is how they have already been and can be forgotten?

Quote: Sergey1964

1. Мы for the first time a completely civilian crew was launched into Space ...

Billionaire bought myself and place companions in a spaceship. Yeah. In my opinion, it was already at the beginning of the XNUMXs. Not? A - he didn't buy it from Musk. It's clear. Then really - an achievement.

Quote: Sergey1964

2. Today the manned spacecraft "Shenzhou-12" ...

Did the previous ships descend without yuhayuan? Although I agree for the Chinese 90 days is an achievement.

[slipped]

Quote: Sergey1964

PS
Yes, I forgot.

3. Мы broke the historical record for the number of people simultaneously in space.

This is a statistic, not an achievement. We do not have sports competitions in space. Although, of course, you can consider this a kind of record - your right.

[Sergey1964]

Quote: slipped

It seems to me that you are looking in the wrong direction. We plowed in the 90s, and now we have long been capitalists-proprietors.

Understood nothing. Please explain your idea.

Quote: slipped

Are you proud of the achievements of your homeland or are you offended and quietly hate it? Write somehow incomprehensibly.

I am not proud of the achievements of my homeland (by the way, my homeland is Tomsk-7), I didn’t take offense at my homeland, I don’t hate my homeland and I don’t feel any special feelings towards my homeland at all - that is why I write “homeland” lower case.
Regarding pride, I do not understand at all how one can feel pride in certain accomplishments, to which I personally have not applied my labor-brain-talent. You can rejoice at someone else's successes (here I, for example, rejoice at the successes of Elon Musk and his team), but to be proud other people's successes - this is beyond my understanding.

Quote: slipped

Strange thinking.

In my opinion, absolutely normal. You can (and even should) be proud of your successes, and not the successes of other people.

Quote: slipped

What kind of blizzard have you suffered?

Well, if you can say "we" and "our" in relation to the population of 1/8 of the Earth's land area - why can't you say “we” and “our” in relation to the population of the remaining 7/8 of the Earth's land area? I'm actually a cosmopolitan because science is inherently cosmopolitan.

Quote: slipped

Then really - an achievement.

Do not try to seem stupider than you are. ))
The achievement is that this is the first in the history of mankind, a fully tourist-non-professional crew that went to Space. Previously, space tourists flew only as passengers. Well, the little things
- reusable booster
- reusable ship
- the crew sits not like herring in a barrel, but like in the business class of an airliner.

[slipped]

Quote: Sergey1964

Understood nothing. Please explain your idea.

In the 90s, I was involved in the industry, but then fate turned out so that now I have my own very good business and a villa with a sea view.

Quote: Sergey1964

I am not proud of the achievements of my homeland ....

They might not have continued further, after such words, everything is clear anyway.

Quote: Sergey1964

In my opinion, absolutely normal. You can (and even should) be proud of your successes, and not the successes of other people.

This is strange. I am proud of my grandfather and grandmother, who fought at the front and went through the entire war. I am proud of my friend, who, being a cancer patient, built a large and bright house for his family on the seashore ... I am also proud of our Russian and Soviet astronautics. We are different people and in my opinion you are proud only of your personal ego and that's it.

Quote: Sergey1964

I'm actually a cosmopolitan because science is inherently cosmopolitan.

Well it is being treated. They reminded me of my employee, a former Hare Krishnaite, when he realized that he was used in the community only as a slave force. He also spoke about his cosmopolitanism at first. I ran from there without looking back.

Quote: Sergey1964

The achievement is that this is the first in the history of mankind, a fully tourist-non-professional crew that went into Space.

It’s not an achievement — it’s idiocy — to send a group of civilians on a ship that has not passed the safe flight statistics. Have you forgotten what were the problems with the previous ships? God grant that everything goes well.

Quote: Sergey1964

Previously, space tourists flew only as passengers.

They will still fly as passengers. We have four passengers by the end of this year. With professional astronauts, who know what to do happen what.

Quote: Sergey1964

Well, the little things
- reusable booster
- reusable ship
- the crew sits not like herring in a barrel, but like in the business class of an airliner.

Really small thing. At Soyuz-2, saving the first stages is not required - it is cheaper to make new ones, the same applies to the ship, and in zero gravity it does not matter at all who and how sits - the standard arrangement of the crew in the Soyuz MS flight is one in the SA, two in the BO, and there and there is a normal toilet, in which you can retire from the crew, and not wed ... over the head of a comrade, like in the Dragon and there is where to eat really sitting on the couch at the sideboard table.

[Sergey1964]

Quote: slipped

In the 90s, I was involved in the industry, but then fate turned out so that now I have my own very good business and a villa with a sea view.

This means that the industry is not for you. In the 90s, I also left biology to become programmers, because they stopped paying money for biology. But at the first opportunity he returned back to biology.

Quote: slipped

I am proud of my grandfather and grandmother, who fought at the front and went through the entire war.

This is strange. (with)
And great-great-great -... great-grandmother ("Mitochondrial Eve") Are you, by any chance, proud?

Quote: slipped

Well it is being treated.

Cosmopolitanism? No, it is not treated. The fact is that my system of recognizing "friend or foe" is configured not for an entry in the passport about citizenship, but for completely different signs.

Quote: slipped

It is not an achievement - it is idiocy - to send a group of civilians on a ship that has not passed the statistics of safe flights.

The Falcon 9 has this 97th or so accident-free launch in a row. And almost every launch ended with a successful booster landing. I think SpaceX engineers know their stuff.

Quote: slipped

Forgotten what were the problems with the previous ships?

I don’t remember any problems with the past piloted Dragons. Remind please.

Quote: slipped

They will still fly as passengers.

They will not "fly". They already in space, winding turns around the Earth. If they are "passengers", then who is the "driver"? The fifth member of the crew who is hiding from the cameras under the chair?

Quote: slipped

Really small thing.

Envy is a bad feeling. ;)

[slipped]

Quote: Sergey1964

This means that the industry is not for you.

Well, it's not for you to judge.

Quote: Sergey1964

And great-great-great -... great-grandmother ("Mitochondrial Eve") Are you, by any chance, proud?

My grandmother fought on the Kursk Bulge, and yours?

Quote: Sergey1964

Cosmopolitanism? No, it is not treated.

The doctor said to the morgue, which means to the morgue. It's clear.

Quote: Sergey1964

I don’t remember any problems with the past piloted Dragons. Remind please.

Easy:

explosion of the capsule on the stand after the flight



oxidizer leak in the service compartment

Quote: Sergey1964

They will not "fly". They already in space, winding turns around the Earth. If they are "passengers", then who is the "driver"? The fifth member of the crew who is hiding from the cameras under the chair?

Passengers are not allowed to operate the aircraft. They are there like Belka and Arrow or the rhesus monkey Sam. The ship is controlled from the MCC on Earth.

Quote: Sergey1964

Envy is a bad feeling. ;)

Is that all you can answer? There is nothing to envy.

[Sergey1964]

Quote: slipped

Well, it's not for you to judge.

This is how you judged yourself when you left the industry for business.

Quote: slipped

My grandmother fought on the Kursk Bulge, and yours?

And my grandfathers fought. So what?

Quote: slipped

explosion of the capsule on the stand after the flight

At the stand after the flight.

Quote: slipped

oxidizer leak in the service compartment

No one was hurt.

Quote: slipped

Passengers are not allowed to operate the aircraft. They are there like Belka and Arrow or the rhesus monkey Sam. The ship is controlled from the MCC on Earth.

This does not negate the fact that for the first time in history, a crew of four non-professionals is winding turns around the Earth.

Quote: slipped

There is nothing to envy.

Are the grapes green?

[Wedmak]

Roskosmos, when will you stop rushing from one option to another? Is there a lot of money? It is already annoying to hear about the change of places of the terms with a constant zero advance.

[slipped]

Quote: Wedmak

Roskosmos, when will you stop rushing from one option to another? Is there a lot of money? It is already annoying to hear about the change of places of the terms with a constant zero advance.

And you read our Federal Space Program. Everything about the options is written there https://www.roscosmos.ru/22347/.

[D16]

Instead of the oxygen-kerosene version of the "lunar" Russian rocket, work may resume for a methane-fueled rocket.

Don't you know that no one is fighting in a single-breasted one? (C)

[Eug]

I'm not particularly aware of the planned carriers and flights, but a naive question arises - there is already a considerable range of used engines with ready-made control systems, incl. and reusable (from RN Energia). Why develop new ones? Maybe it's easier and, accordingly, cheaper and faster to modify the existing ones?

[Blackmokona]

The problem is that Musk is leading such a groundbreaking Starship project that missiles based on any existing engines will be completely obsolete.

[slipped]

Quote: BlackMokona

The problem is that Musk is leading such a groundbreaking Starship project that missiles based on any existing engines will be completely obsolete.

Crap. RD-180 was burned with methane. Now its modification has been developed just for LNG - RD-182.

[Blackmokona]

So what? The main feature of the Raptor is absolutely not methane, but its miracle price.

[slipped]

Quote: BlackMokona

So what? The main feature of the Raptor is absolutely not methane, but its miracle price.

And we have a trick - the price in rubles.

[Blackmokona]

Only 30+ Raptors are still two times cheaper than the RD-180

[slipped]

Quote: BlackMokona

Only 30+ Raptors are still two times cheaper than the RD-180

For Americans? well maybe. But we don't care anymore, we closed the contract with them, they paid everything. We were quite happy with the profit.

[Blackmokona]

It is twice cheaper for them than for us.
https://ria.ru/20110511/373020049.html

MOSCOW, May 11 - RIA Novosti. OJSC NPO Energomash sold Russian RD-180 rocket engines for American Atlas-5 launch vehicles for half the cost of their production costs, according to the Russian Audit Chamber.

"In this regard, only in 2008-2009, the loss from their sales amounted to about 880 million rubles, or almost 68% of all Energomash losses," the materials say.

Losses suited us, we closed the contract

[slipped]

Quote: BlackMokona

Losses suited us, we closed the contract

This was at the beginning of sales, and at the end of sales, each engine was costing them exorbitantly. And they paid money in advance.

You at least looked at the dates of the messages. Tin in general, pulled out the news of ten years ago.

By the way, the contract for RD-181 is still working, and is generally profitable.

[Blackmokona]

Yes, yes, did they come up with it? Can you link about the exorbitant price? The contract was signed, the contract was executed
Also in the context of the conversation, this is not at all important, since it sets the minimum cost of the RD-180 at $ 40 million, such pies
With the current Raptor price of one million and the target price of 0,25 million

[slipped]

Quote: BlackMokona

Yes, yes, did they come up with it? Can you link about the exorbitant price?

Rogozin and Arbuzov spoke about this. You will find it yourself. And the revenue was up to 13 billion rubles.

Quote: BlackMokona

The contract was signed, the contract was executed

There were several contracts, as far as I'm aware.

[Blackmokona]

1.There is no proof and you cannot find it either.
2.Yeah, only in the presence of Delta-4, the ability to twist the arms in the price of the engine was quite small.

[slipped]

Quote: BlackMokona

1.There is no proof and you cannot find it either.

I told you - you will find it yourself.

Quote: BlackMokona

2.Yeah, only in the presence of Delta-4, the ability to twist the arms in the price of the engine was quite small.

Yes, no difference. Everything has been paid for.

[Blackmokona]

1. No, there is no way to twist it.
2. At half the cost for each engine.

[slipped]

Quote: BlackMokona

1. No, there is no way to twist it.
2. At half the cost for each engine.

1. Don't know how to use the Internet.
2. Yes, and live with it.

[Blackmokona]

1. Whoever said, he proves the usual rule of the Internet and all discussions.
2. Here I live. I'm waiting for ours to develop new ones, so as not to fly out of the space race forever

[slipped]

Quote: BlackMokona

1. Whoever said, he proves the usual rule of the Internet and all discussions.

Really? oh well nafig.

Quote: BlackMokona

2. Here I live. I'm waiting for ours to develop new ones, so as not to fly out of the space race forever

You think in some strange categories - we have no race. There is a systematic and progressive development within the framework of the federal space program budget - only by the end of this year, the launch of four spacecraft under a manned program, of which the first fully commercial, two new geostationary satellites, three commercial launches of MCA clusters and regular tests of a new rocket and space complex, did not exist. considering the military component.

Crying about "Roskosmos FSE" I've heard here on the site for about six years now - aren't you tired?

[Blackmokona]

1.Yes the usual rule of any discussion from ancient times and the birth of modern science
2. So every year it gets worse and worse. You can see it perfectly.
The budget is cut, programs are cut, marking time, etc.

[slipped]

Quote: BlackMokona

1.Yes the usual rule of any discussion from ancient times and the birth of modern science

I told you - your rules don't matter to me.

Quote: BlackMokona

2. So every year it gets worse and worse. You can see it perfectly.
The budget is cut, programs are cut, marking time, etc.

What "programs cut", what "cut", you give the specifics. The last time the sequestration was when the current FKP was adopted in 2016. Since then nothing has been cut or cut. As for the transfer of some programs under the current FKP, this is a consequence, mainly, of the development from scratch of new instruments and devices within the framework of import substitution - all spacecraft and ILVs planned until 2025 are either already launched or are in one or another stage of production or preparing for launches.

[Blackmokona]

Rogozin disagrees with you

“We have to finish all negotiations with the Ministry of Finance in autumn. The parameters for financing the federal space program until 2025 must be provided in accordance with its passport. According to the passport, the FKP should total 2025 trillion 1 billion rubles until 406, but in reality it has already been cut by 150 billion rubles. And that's not counting the alleged sequestration of space programs, which is associated with a drop in federal budget revenues, ”said the head of Roscosmos.

https://www.gazeta.ru/science/2020/08/25_a_13209571.shtml

[slipped]

Quote: BlackMokona

Rogozin disagrees with you
“We have to finish all negotiations with the Ministry of Finance in autumn.

Finish and provide. Something like this. Normal working moments. You have never dealt with the treasuries or what?

[MBRSS]

modification just for LNG - RD-182.

Which one with the declared 250 tons of thrust versus 400 tons for the RD-180? The "modification" is good. Have they even changed the TNA or just put methane into the tract instead of kerosene?

[slipped]

Quote: MBRBS

The "modification" is good.

Indeed, a very good engine turns out.

[MBRSS]

Can you explain what is good about it with such a loss of thrust in relation to the kerosene version? And why design RD-0169, if it is possible (by analogy) to transplant RD-191 to methane? It turns out 125 tons of thrust per chamber - this is higher than the declared thrust RD-0169 - what else is needed?

[slipped]

Quote: MBRBS

Can you explain what is good about it with such a loss of thrust in relation to the kerosene version?

I don’t understand at all, where did you get 250 tf, when the single-chamber version has all 300 tf near the ground, at a pressure of 250 kg / cm3, and the two-chamber version has all 600 tf, and there are also forced versions with higher pressure?

Quote: MBRBS

And why design RD-0169

RD-0169V is an excellent second stage CNG engine. And its "terrestrial" modification in conjunction with the RD-182 is also interesting.

[MBRSS]

Quote: slipped

RD-180 was burned with methane. Now its modification has been developed just for LNG - RD-182.

- either you deliberately mislead the people, or you simply do not understand the topic. And where does 300 and 600 tons come from ??? The thrust is 250 tons - yes, even from here: https://regnum.ru/news/it/3251257.html And there are many more slips.
The Wiki says that the RD-182 is a modification of the RD-120K. The only thing I can believe in is that 182 is modification 181, but not 180. And even that is unlikely.

[slipped]

Quote: MBRBS

- either you deliberately mislead the people, or you simply do not understand the topic.

Yeah, I input and output.

Quote: MBRBS

And where does 300 and 600 tons come from ???

From NTS to methane-fueled carriers. I think this is a bit better than Regnum and Vicki. Gas-gas scheme with full gasification of both components.

Quote: MBRBS

The only thing I can believe in is that 182 is modification 181, but not 180. And even that is unlikely.

And 181 is 193.

[MBRSS]

laughs-emoticons will not be able to get off! You have to answer for the chatter at least with links. I gave the link. And it's not about the site on which it is published, but where the infa comes from. And infa from Energomash.
For now, I conclude that the RD-182 is still a mythical engine and certainly not related to the RD-180.
This is how I bring unclean "esperds" to the surface!

[slipped]

Quote: MBRBS

You have to answer for the chatter at least with links. I gave the link.

Yes, it makes no difference to me, you just open your mouth to the master ... to the starship. And I, with all my desire, will not give a link to a paper document that cannot be done online.

Quote: MBRBS

This is how I bring unclean "esperds" to the surface!

By the way, I found where you got the figure 250ts ... on the NTS there was a prospect with such a figure of ~ 250ts, the journalists probably simply did not notice the bird.

[MBRSS]

It is necessary to read, and not to run through with your eyes)) Information about 250 tf - from Energomash. And about the modification of the RD-120K from him. You didn’t bring ANY proof. Therefore - a sadder, a deuce!

mouth open the master ... to the starship

everything, there is nothing more to cling to? This phrase actually referred to Roscosmos, which took a break until the results of the Superhevy tests.

[slipped]

Quote: MBRBS

It is necessary to read, and not to run through with your eyes)) Information about 250 tf - from Energomash.

Well, yes, it is written in red letters: Powerful oxygen-methane liquid-propellant rocket engine with a thrust of ~ 250 tf. On the second page of the prospectus. And in the upper right corner - Energomash.

Quote: MBRBS

You didn’t bring ANY proof. Therefore - a sadder, a deuce!

Why do you need it? Are you a Ruin Spyen? Want to go to the moon?

Quote: MBRBS

This phrase actually referred to Roscosmos, which took a break until the results of the Superhevy tests.

Took a break ... until the test results .... what do you smoke? Rogozin Sedna clearly said that the released money of the Republic of Kazakhstan was going to be redirected to the development of new technologies in media. We haven’t blown up carriers in flight for a long time, we drive them at the stands, so all the first launches of new carriers are accident-free.

[military_cat]

Quote: slipped

Gas-gas scheme with full gasification of both components.

In this case, this is definitely not a modification of the RD-180, even close. This is a different engine of a different scheme.

[slipped]

Quote: military_cat

Quote: slipped

Gas-gas scheme with full gasification of both components.

In this case, this is definitely not a modification of the RD-180, even close. This is a different engine of a different scheme.

They all came out of the same log, as they say

[MBRSS]

Maybe it's easier and, accordingly, cheaper and faster to modify the existing ones?

this issue was considered back in the late 1990s, when a competition was held for a heavy rocket to replace the Proton. There was a good option - "Energia-M" (a model of which has been kept at Baikonur since Soviet times), but, unfortunately, for dubious reasons (they say, we lost our hydrogen competencies), won the kerosene project "Angara", which after that constantly modified (again they remembered about hydrogen for the upper stage).
In principle, even now it is not too late to revive the super-heavy domestic "Energy". The former head of RSC Energia, Vitaly Lopota (who has been under investigation for 5 years on a dubious charge, but he would have come up to the role of head of Roscosmos instead of Rogozin), also spoke in favor of this. But Rogozin is now looking into Musk's mouth and will try to cosplay his methane and reusable technologies. Therefore, the development program was suspended. They will wait for the flights of the "Starship".

[U-58]

I do not quite understand the scorn of some citizens about the redesign of the engine and about "Rogozin's office" (which, by the way, I also dislike).
A normal and, most importantly, a necessary and innovative process is underway. This is the progress of technology.
As for the shift of the dates to the right, this does not threaten us. The very process of creating new carriers is now so [unfortunately] delayed that we will design the engine exactly in time.
In defense of the same Rogozin and the entire industry as a whole, I note that the delay is due, among other things, to chronic underfunding. And this factor is almost determining the course of affairs in Roscosmos.
And the methane theme has been developed here over the past 25-27 years at the Voronezh KBKhA.
And practically "at the expense of the parents' wool." That is, on sheer enthusiasm. And there are definitely achievements there. True, a certain Mr. "A" has already recorded these achievements in his asset (well, what can you do with his vanity! ...). So there is reason for some optimism.

[AUL]

Quote: U-58

A normal and, most importantly, a necessary and innovative process is underway. This is the progress of technology.

Progress is when a new product is created. Which is better than the old one. And when money flies away without any return, this is not progress. This is either blatant mediocrity or primitive theft. Or both together!

[MBRSS]

True, a certain Mr. "A" has already recorded these achievements in his asset

Arbuzov or what? By the way, if you are up to date with the Voronezh KBKhA, can you tell me if there is some kind of technical equipment for the manufacture of RD-0120, or everything went into scrap metal? I have heard various rumors, from "everything was lost" to "everything is in place, we can repeat it if they start hurting."

[U-58]

I am not very aware of things in KBKhA. But on RD 0120, even 5-7 years ago, a verdict was made (of course, not by me): the technology was lost irretrievably.
Alas and ah. I'm sad.
To revive the theme, you need no less money than the entire lunar program.
I grieve ...

[Vadim237]

Now we need to create liquid detonation rocket engines - RD 0120 passed stage.

[MBRSS]

the verdict was passed (of course, not by me): the technology is irretrievably lost.

it's all nonsense. What kind of technology is lost? It's just that you can get more bonuses on the development of a new engine than on the restoration of old technologies. This includes, in addition to government funding, also new patents, bonuses, promotions, and other nice little things. Therefore, they do not want to get involved with reincarnation even at the manufacturing enterprise, and therefore they asked for restoration for 7-8 years, although it was possible to keep within 2-3 years. One kbha-shnik told me about this, about 10-12 years ago. Maybe he was too optimistic, that's why I asked about KBHA.

[U-58]

Bonuses, bonuses, promotions ...
Are you out of your mind?
Work from 7 to 19 (this is the best), work on weekends. Endless scattering from the top management.
Yes, no one can be found for the position of the head of the shop. Even in spite of a more than decent salary!
And what is it like for technologists to get out of it so that at least something will work out? But these are oxygen technologies ...
You didn’t work ... Yes, you just have no idea.

[MBRSS]

You didn't work ...

just the same worked, and in the same production, about which we are talking. True, not for long - it was the beginning of the 1990s, the beginning of the collapse of the industry as a whole. Young specialists were the first to quit - no one kept them.

[MBRSS]

Fine. Now we are waiting for the message about the termination of the repair of the palace in Gelendzhik! In the meantime, with our mouths open, we look at Musk's non-stop show in Boca Chica)))

[slipped]

Quote: MBRBS

Fine. Now we are waiting for the message about the termination of the repair of the palace in Gelendzhik! In the meantime, with our mouths open, we look at Musk's non-stop show in Boca Chica)))

Only decided to open your mouth? You have to be more tolerant, according to the trend.

[rocket757]

There is nothing to argue about, because we don't know ...

[slipped]

Indeed, the readers of "people's money" immediately uncovered their cover. But a year ago it was said that Roskosmos wants superheavy methane.

[rocket757]

Here's the point of fencing a garden ... solid OBS.
Not interested.

[mark1]

it was previously assumed that the design of the rocket would be completed by October of this year

Something went wrong and now they found a plausible excuse -

- Senya, about hares - this is not relevant ...

[Nexcom]

The trouble is, if the cobbler starts the cakes,
And the boots stitch the pastry,
And things won’t work out.
Yes, and a hundredfold
What who loves to take someone else’s craft,
He forever others stubborn and foolish:
It’s better to ruin everything,
And glad soon
The laughing stock of becoming light
Than honest and knowledgeable people
Ask il to listen to reasonable advice.

[anclevalico]

And what? The dough sank, and you can tie it until the result is not required.

[Alexey-74]

Another "Pepelats" was blown away by "Roscosmos", why bother to declare ....

[16112014nk]

To paraphrase one character from "Mimino": While they were doing the sketch project, back and forth - the money ran out.
Now the loot will be cut on a new one on another project. And the Moon ... And what about the Moon - there is no oil, no gas. "Effective" is of no interest whatsoever.

[Bshkaus]

The news came out at the right time on the day of the first launch in the history of mankind orbital a manned spacecraft with a 100% commercial crew.
So far, only a narrow circle of specialists knows that Russian cosmonautics is in a deep puddle and, unfortunately, the upcoming launch of Persilda and Shipenko is like a dead poultice. In addition, the start date may still fail, but this will be presented as another victory, in a good movie there are many takes ...

[Hog]

This has never happened, and here it is again.
A washcloth hangs on the stake, we start all over again.

[p0pulivox]

Quote: Cosm22

And why, in fact, be surprised?
This is the usual working scheme of Roscosmos.
First, shout to the whole world about a new grandiose project.
Then get financing for it.
Then announce a new, even more ingenious project, and throw away the old one.
Do we see a lot of progress in relation to Amur-LNG? Soyuz-6? "Rus-M"? Angara-3/7?

"Slipped" will come (or whatever) and explain everything to us, unreasonable!

[slipped]

Конечно. It's simple - there is no decision on the STC in terms of financing. The pragmatism of its creation requires complete information - why is it necessary? No one has yet given a clear answer. All newly designed payloads can be perfectly displayed by the carriers of the Angara line. Even the TEM fits into the A5B.

[p0pulivox]

Alas, not everything is all right in the Danish kingdom: on 9.9.21, in the Russian Zvezda module on the ISS, there was an incident with smoke (fire?), Which is another confirmation of sound comments on the topic of domestic space.

[slipped]

Quote: p0pulivox

Alas, not everything is all right in the Danish kingdom: on 9.9.21, in the Russian Zvezda module on the ISS, there was an incident with smoke (fire?), Which is another confirmation of sound comments on the topic of domestic space.

And when in the American segment of ammonia flows there also "another confirmation"?

[Vadim237]

It is high time for these modules to be lowered from orbit in view of the depletion of their resource, but the problem is that the entire ISS is supported on them and this is not a problem of our astronautics.

[slipped]

Quote: Vadim237

It is high time for these modules to be lowered from orbit in view of the depletion of their resource, but the problem is that the entire ISS is supported on them and this is not a problem of our astronautics.

Indeed, this is a problem for both space agencies. Moreover, the Americans do not want to lose the ISS many times more than ours. In general, while the problems on both segments are not so critical and may have different workarounds.

[Knell wardenheart]

In a word, the dates are shifted again. Kerosene stoves have long since exhausted their capabilities; in general, it is strange that the heavyweight was originally designed on this type of fuel.

[slipped]

Quote: Knell Wardenheart

In a word, the dates are shifted again.

At the initial stage of the transition to a new rocket spacecraft, "such a fool" was not really needed, it turned out that there are interesting ways to do everything quickly and inexpensively. On kerosene stoves.

[Maverick1812]

Musk applauds .....