Armament complex with anti-tank aircraft missile "Whirlwind" began to test on the Mi-28NM

Attack helicopter Mi-28N "Night Hunter" will receive the modernized anti-tank guided missile (ATGM) "Vikhr-1". Tests of new weapons are already underway.

According to reports, the missile has already been adapted for use in the "Night Hunter" weapon system. Currently, a prototype helicopter with a new armament system, which includes the Vikhr-1 ATGM, is undergoing factory tests.

(...) the complex includes a 9A4172K "Vikhr-1" rocket with an automatic laser guidance system and a firing range of up to 10 thousand meters

- leads TASS source words in the defense industry.

Earlier, the Kalashnikov concern announced that the Vikhr-1 ATGM, originally developed for the Ka-50 and Ka-52 attack helicopters, will be adapted for use and will be included in the armament complex of the Mi-28NM, Mi-35P and attack helicopters. drone "Orion".

In February of this year, information appeared on the modernization of the missile as part of the program for the unification of the weapons of the Ka-52 and Mi-28NM helicopters, in May it was reported that the first tests of the improved missile were carried out. At the same time, it was clarified that the work has not yet been completed.

The main purpose of the missile is to destroy armored vehicles, including those with active armor, as well as air targets at speeds up to 800 km / h. The launch height is up to 4000 meters, and the maximum firing range is 10 kilometers.

Comments

[Yrec]

"The complex includes a 9A4172K Vikhr-1 missile with an automatic laser guidance system and a firing range of up to 10 thousand meters."

[Jacket in stock]

Quote: Yrec

It turns out that the principle of "fire and forget" is implemented in "Whirlwind"?

No, it doesn't work.
The operator is not involved, but the guidance system is located on the helicopter, so the target must be in its line of sight at all times.

[Yrec]

It is clear that our people still decided to leave the "brains" on the helicopter. On the one hand, this will reduce the cost of the rocket itself and increase resistance to electronic warfare, on the other hand, while the rocket is flying, turn around under return fire.

[CommanderDIVA]

And if you force the target to be illuminated according to the "fire-and-forget" principle of a UAV from a helicopter armament? The helicopter fired a missile and left the line of fire, a drone previously launched from the helicopter guides the missile at the target until it is hit, maybe there are such weapons systems

[Jacket in stock]

Quote: CommanderDIVA

? The helicopter fired a missile and left the line of fire, a drone previously launched from the helicopter guides the missile at the target until it is hit, maybe there are such weapons systems

Hermes seems to have a semi-active seeker.
and soon promise to make an autonomous seeker.

[Alex777]

And the Product-305 seems to be like "fired and forgot" at 20 km ...

[SovAr238A]

Quote: CommanderDIVA

And if you force the target to be illuminated according to the "fire-and-forget" principle of a UAV from a helicopter armament? The helicopter fired a missile and left the line of fire, a drone previously launched from the helicopter guides the missile at the target until it is hit, maybe there are such weapons systems

And why do you need to carry drones on a helicopter?
Drones were invented anyway.
Almost every modern drone is able to highlight targets.
And he doesn't care who to do it for.
For artillery, helicopters, infantry, strike aircraft and UAVs ...

[smart ass]

Who knows what mi28 used to shoot at tanks?

[Jacket in stock]

As far as I remember, the main advantage of the Mi28 was the price, it was much cheaper than the Alligator. But as it turned out, at the expense of equipment and weapons. Now, apparently, they realized that good things do not come cheap, and they are tightening the "Hunter" to a condition suitable for war. Which of course pleases.
And most of all I am glad that they have finally thought of unification (it happened in the last century for the enemies, now it has come down to ours).

[abc_alex]

Quote: Jacket in stock

As far as I remember, the main advantage of the Mi28 was the price, it was much cheaper than the Alligator. But as it turned out, at the expense of equipment and weapons. Now, apparently, they realized that good things do not come cheap, and they are tightening the "Hunter" to a condition suitable for war. Which of course pleases.
And most of all I am glad that they have finally thought of unification (it happened in the last century for the enemies, now it has come down to ours).

Don't remember correctly. The main advantage of the "snub-nosed" was that it was. A real combat complex that flew, detected targets, shot and hit. At the training grounds, not at the cinema. While the Ka-52 could only somehow, something, not completely but beautiful. If the Kamovites could and did, their lobby would have crushed the "snub-nosed" one.
The avionics complex for cars is different. But the Kamovites were never able to realize the potential of their radar. And primarily because of the absence of this same Vortex. It turned out that the Tula had no idea how to launch their product into a series. At that time, as the Milians, having relied on Sturm and Attack, have long ago made a full-fledged combat vehicle armed with the most universal missile system. By the way, the Mi-28N has had a laser guidance channel for a long time. As well as the radio channel for communication with the UAV. As well as an automatic target tracking system and an automatic targeting system.
What is described in the note, and what you perceived as a "breakthrough" is not sick than a modification as part of the expansion of the range of ammunition. The armament of the Mi-28 received real development along completely different lines. If interested, follow the news about the Mi-28MN, it will be there. And Whirlwinds - this is so that the Tula and Kamovites do not cry, this topic is not interesting to anyone. The missile is barely produced in a series, and has no advantages over Attack.

[SovAr238A]

Quote: abc_alex

And primarily because of the absence of this same Vortex. It turned out that the Tula had no idea how to launch their product into a series.

Firstly, Vortexes were not collected in Tula ...
They were collected in Kirov and ... like in Kovrov ..
And in the head for the failure of the entire contract - it was not Shipunov's design bureau that received it - but Kalashnikov's technologists.
And it was they who did not make even 3 missiles in 100 years of state order. and then. finally, over the next year, more than 2000 missiles were handed over in an emergency ...
It is also necessary to find out in what capacity with such a rush, when nothing in 3 years. and then in 8-9 months - that's it!
This does not happen in production.
Avrales - always lead to problems.


In general, the State Defense Order of 2015, according to the models that determine the combat composition of the Armed Forces, has been fulfilled by 38%.
We did not cope with the state defense order within the allotted planned timeframe:
.....
- Kirov plant "Mayak" (did not supply 326 guided missiles "Vikhr-1");
- Concern "Kalashnikov" (did not supply in 1972 guided missiles).

[Alexey RA]

Quote: SovAr238A

And in the head for the failure of the entire contract - it was not Shipunov's design bureau that received it - but Kalashnikov's technologists.

Kalashnikov justified itself by the fact that, compared to July 2013, when the contract was signed, the situation had changed - and import substitution was required:

There were, indeed, difficulties. They were connected with the fact that this rocket had never been mass-produced. There were issues with import substitution, but today they are all resolved. The tests are over, and we are already starting serial assembly in the near future.

Plus suddenly (!) ATGM carrier changed:

In Kalashnikov, the delay was explained by the need to reissue the technological documentation in connection with the replacement of the missile carrier from the Ka-50 to the Ka-52.

Quote: SovAr238A

And it was they who did not make even 3 missiles in 100 years of state order. and then. finally, over the next year, more than 2000 missiles were handed over in an emergency ...
It is also necessary to find out in what capacity with such a rush, when nothing in 3 years. and then in 8-9 months - that's it!
This does not happen in production.

It happens - when moving from manual assembly to serial production. My favorite example is the production of Erlikons with Bofors in the USA. Until they worked out CD and TD for mass production - they produced one hundred or two hundred pieces a year. As soon as everything was ready for the series, they began to produce thousands and tens of thousands.

[abc_alex]

Quote: SovAr238A

Firstly, Vortexes were not collected in Tula ...

And where did I write what they collected? In the domestic military-industrial complex, the responsibility for the creation of industrial cooperation lies with the design bureau-developer. As it became clear from their other projects, the Tula simply did not have the competence for such activities. Let me remind you that the Whirlwind entered service in 1995. And all this gimmick has been going on for over 30 years.

Quote: SovAr238A

Avrales - always lead to problems.

There, the problem was not in the rush. The Tula initially chose unreliable component manufacturers and they either screwed up or fell apart.

[Nikolaevich I]

Quote: abc_alex

The missile is barely produced in a series, and has no advantages over Attack.

Well, not quite so ... "Attack" has a range of 6 km ... There were prototypes with a range of 8 km ... (I don't know if they launched into production or not ... probably not!). "Whirlwind" was pulled from 8 km to 10 km ... There were prototypes with a range of up to 12-14 km ... (they were definitely not put into production and into service!)

[abc_alex]

Quote: Nikolaevich I

Well, not quite so ... "Attack" has a range of 6 km ... There were prototypes with a range of 8 km ...

No, not like that. "Attack" normally flies 8 km. The design bureau "limits" the range of the complex by the distance of confident tracking in the control channel for maneuvering. If you needed to hit a house or a stationary object, you could shoot at 8, as they explained to me. There, the main problem with the range was not in the rocket, but in the parameters of the sighting and navigation complex. It was not realistic to aim at a distance of more than 7 km, especially to find a target.

Quote: Nikolaevich I

"Vortex" stretched from 8 km to 10 km ... There were prototypes with a range of up to 12-14 km ...

The same message. :) Aiming and tracking in the control channel. It is possible to cut a rocket for 100 km. How to aim? In theory, the Kamovites have a radar. But unfortunately they could not really use it.

[apricot]

"abc_alex (Alexey)"
Unfortunately, I can’t give you a plus, but your comment is perfect ...

[Marachuh]

When will Hermes be installed on both cars?

[abc_alex]

What for? How to aim?

[Vladimir61]

I believed that the unification program is applied immediately, even at the stage of development, and not later, when the tools are mastered exclusively for one type.

[abc_alex]

Quote: Vladimir61

I believed that the unification program is applied immediately, even at the stage of development, and not later, when the tools are mastered exclusively for one type.

There was no way out. Ka-52 and Ka-54 could not fight with Whirlwind. Even at the training ground. The military set an unambiguous condition for acceptance - transfer to Assault and Attack. Whirlwinds just weren't in the series. That is, unification was, as you said, although not at the development stage, but at the finalization stage. Now they are simply expanding the range. Quite a routine process.

[Vladimir61]

Clear. Thank!

[Alex777]

Quote: abc_alex

Ka-54 with Whirlwind

Ka-54 ???

[Nikolaevich I]

Quote: Alex777

Ka-54 ???

Well, you really sho! It was the case that the Ka-54 was going to do ... some!

[Alexey RA]

Quote: abc_alex

There was no way out. Ka-52 and Ka-54 could not fight with Whirlwind. Even at the training ground.

EMNIP, after the start of mass production and the arrival of the first Mi-28 and Ka-52 in Torzhok, it became clear that both vehicles cannot fight. The launch of the NARs at hovering and low speeds led to problems in the operation of the engines, and the ATGMs ... ATGMs flew wherever they wanted.

[abc_alex]

Quote: Alexey RA

Quote: abc_alex

There was no way out. Ka-52 and Ka-54 could not fight with Whirlwind. Even at the training ground.

EMNIP, after the start of mass production and the arrival of the first Mi-28 and Ka-52 in Torzhok, it became clear that both vehicles cannot fight. The launch of the NARs at hovering and low speeds led to problems in the operation of the engines, and the ATGMs ... ATGMs flew wherever they wanted.

In Torzhok, as you know, there is a training and retraining center drill pilots. Before the Mi-28, domestic combat pilots had no experience in using URs. Not surprisingly, ATGMs flew anywhere. One of the developers told me that when he was given a "pulnut" Attack, he taxied the rocket into the ground with shame and a crash :) This is a developer! And the combatants are actually supposed to shoot anywhere. They did not dare to fly over the infrared channel, they demanded the very "glasses" from which they then frightened the stray former generals with red eyes. :) And you should have heard how much "positive and flattering" the developers say about combat operators of weapons who "carefully and diligently" read the documentation and study the materiel! :)
On the Ka-50, even the test pilots of the Kamov design bureau could not cope with the range tasks.

[Alexey RA]

Quote: abc_alex

In Torzhok, as you know, there is a training and retraining center for combat pilots.

The militants were later. At first, the machines were mastered by the "permanent composition" of the pulp and paper industry. They were the first to face the problems of the NAR and ATGM.
And when the helicopters went to the linear units, the problems arose again.

Quote: abc_alex

On the Ka-50, even the test pilots of the Kamov design bureau could not cope with the range tasks.

EMNIP, on the Ka-50 and Su-39, the psychophysiological load on the pilot during the mission was above the limit, even if the machine was piloted by test pilots.

[abc_alex]

Quote: Alexey RA

The militants were later. First, the machines were mastered by the "permanent composition" of the pulp and paper industry.

Even if the permanent staff remembered "Baby" and "Phalanx" it hardly helped: the Attack speed is 2-3 times higher. And the range is 1,5-2 times higher. But as I said, even the developers of the system did not cope with it the first time. When I asked why, I was told that the controls were not convenient, you need to get used to it.

Quote: Alexey RA

EMNIP, on the Ka-50 ... the psychophysiological load on the pilot during the mission was above the limit, even if the car was piloted by test pilots.

Yes, the Kamovites could not. Maybe if they had the experience of the Milians in creating percussion machines, something would have worked out. But everything was put on the "wow effect" and the assistance of "stakeholders".