The European Court of Human Rights will consider the complaint of the relatives of the victims of the Tu-154 disaster near Sochi

History with the crash of the Tu-154 aircraft of the Ministry of Defense near Sochi in 2016 was continued, the relatives of the victims filed a complaint with the European Court of Human Rights (ECHR).

According to the available data, in the complaint submitted to the ECHR, the relatives of the deceased demand that their right to a fair trial be declared violated. In total, 70 people signed the appeal, their interests will be represented by lawyer Igor Trutnov.

According to the lawyer, the reasons for the deaths of people were not established, and none of the responsible persons was brought to justice. At the same time, the criminal case was terminated in 2019 due to the lack of corpus delicti. In addition, in 2020, the second Court of Cassation refused to recover compensation from the insurers to the relatives of the victims of the plane crash, since insurance payments of 2 million rubles for each deceased were paid to relatives. At the same time, the lawyer believes that everyone on board was insured for at least 22 million rubles each.

In the interests of 70 relatives of the victims, a complaint has been filed in which we believe that there has been a violation of Articles 2 (right to life) and 13 (right to a fair trial) of the Convention on Human Rights

- leads "Interfax" Trunov's words.

The Tu-154 belonging to the Russian military department, which carried 92 people, including 8 crew members, crashed on December 25, 2016 immediately after taking off from Adler airport and fell into the Black Sea near Sochi. On board the plane were artists of the Alexandrov ensemble, representatives of the media, the Ministry of Defense, as well as the executive director of the human rights foundation "Fair Help" Elizaveta Glinka (Doctor Liza), heading to the Khmeimim airbase in Syria. They all died.

Comments

[Torins]

It is dangerous to defend your rights now, they will instantly be ranked among the supporters of Navalny and will be credited with criticism of the authorities and an attempted coup.

[Fedor Sokolov]

Well, of course, it is imperative to defend them (rights) in a hostile legal environment that is biased towards our country, where else if not in the Russophobic West.

[El Chuvachino]

Perhaps this is a way to get attention. Let's just admit that we have no idea what's going on on the sidelines.

[Revival]

You can apply to the ECtH only after exhausting all the possibilities in your country.
So there is nowhere else in this context.

[Finches]

Someone advised 70 people that their rights were violated and only the ECHR can help them - someone wants to make a good, not only material, but also political gesheft on this! Even on VO, the first comment by "colleague" Vyacheslav under this news has a pronounced political and anti-Russian subtext!

[mikh-korsakov]

I consider that the jurisdiction of the Russian Federation by the ECHR is inappropriate and unfair. Why. I am sure that human rights in the Russian Federation, as in any other country, are violated. But the ECHR is not an instrument for restoring the rights of the absolute majority of the Russian population. Why? Yes, someone can object to me that the old woman, from whom the local authorities illegally took away her property, will apply to the ECHR to restore her rights and her rights will be restored. Yes, she even the word lawyer, although she heard on TV, but does not even know how to address him. But all sorts of superfluous people from the Moscow elite, for the most part human scum, are ready to hire an expensive lawyer who can prove with a word from his mouth that black is white. They are ready to cut dough on the bones of their relatives, why not, because money does not smell. The ECHR is a bunch of Russophobic politicians, it is a real holiday for them to harm Russia once again.

[Andrei Nikolaevich]

I agree. Moreover, the ECtHR lost its status as a fair court long ago. But in any court, any state, for centuries the concept of "justice" is very, very conditional. And given the difference in the interests of the parties in the proceedings, it is impossible.

[mikh-korsakov]

Andrey Nikolaevich. Absolutely. Moreover, in "democratic states" a fair trial is impossible by definition. The main principle of the bourgeois court is COMPETITION. That is, the task of the court is not to find out whether this subject is guilty or not, but to find out which of the parties in the court - the prosecutor or the lawyer - is more convincing during the trial. With all the ensuing consequences in relation to the defendant's wallet. If in an ordinary court this circumstance can somehow be mixed by the experience of the judge, then the jury, extolled as a triumph ...) is generally darkness. I remember how the murderer's case was considered, on which there is nowhere to put a hallmark, and everything was proved, but the lawyer tried his best. Another principle of the modern court is its INDEPENDENCE. HYPOCRISY. How to deal with the independence of the court in the presence of public resonance, as in the case of Efremov. But social activity would be weaker, the devil knows how things would turn out, and turn around. This proves that the decision of the court depends on public opinion. That is - crucify - and crucify. In this respect, the Soviet court of the era of stagnation was much fairer.

[New Year day]

Quote: mikh-korsakov

Moreover, in "democratic states" a fair trial is impossible by definition.

But Berezovsky and Abramovich did not obey you - they appealed to the English court.

[mikh-korsakov]

Sylvester! B. and A. went to the British court precisely because British case law, with its casuistry, allows the case to be confused in such a way that the case was reduced to a battle of lawyers. Each of them believed that his lawyer would be more expensive. You read Dickens - there you can find a lot of interesting things about the English court. A century and a half have passed, but nothing has fundamentally changed. This court is the best place for a competition between two crooks on the topic of who will be more intelligent. But no one is interested in such trifles as the essence of the matter.

[Andrei Nikolaevich]

And I agree with you completely. As for the public activity around the Efremov case, here and there, I agree with you. But on the other hand, the public resonance in cases of this kind interferes with the objectivity of the investigation and trial. That is to say, a double-edged sword. And ideally, in my opinion, such concepts as justice, legality should be brought up not in the judicial system and investigative bodies, but starting from kindergarten, school and so on. A young citizen must inscribe in himself and the state - to cultivate in it an elementary feeling of an intolerable type to committing crimes, violating human and civil rights, and only then, we will get, in a complex, a more objective investigative and judicial system and the state as a whole. I respect our security officials and judges, but they are the same people as you and me. With all the qualities inherent in our entire society. But let's hope for improvements and progress. All we have to do is to achieve everything by the competitiveness of the parties.)

[Vladimir Mashkov]

Quote: Finches

but also a political gesheft!

I agree with you about the political moment, only I think that here it prevails. Why? Relatives are unlikely to receive additional money: today in Russia there is a law on the non-binding nature of Western laws and the priority of Russian ones. But the "political gesheft" clearly prevails and the moment is well chosen - to throw shit on the authorities before the elections. Let them prove that they are not camels!

[APASUS]

Quote: Finches

Someone advised 70 people that their rights were violated and only the ECHR can help them - someone wants to make a good, not only material, but also political gesheft on this!

This is rather a feeble attempt to draw attention to the problem than to make a political gesheft .. In fact, the case is closed, but questions remain. This is our inability of officials to explain the refusal to the relatives of the victims, not a desire to work with people ............ .. I think we received pieces of paper on toilet paper, after reading which, questions only increased

[keeper03]

Well, if their own did not help, then the relatives have only one way out!

[Pensive Lawyer]

It's safe to assert rights. Just finding fault with the authorities, praising Navalny and defending their rights are different things.

[wow]

You're not a "supporter", are you? Why cry then?

[Zaurbek]

Not without this ..... this is a nice bonus to the closure of an NPO. Although, in this particular situation, it is easier for the MO to figure it out than to advertise in this way. It is difficult to sue the Ministry of Defense. Especially on the issues of various contracts ...

[akarfoxhound]

The Ministry of Defense figured out, and long ago, and immediately, and the reasons were established, and practically in a week. But no one will tell you them, and no one will give you a revision, and for the Ministry of Defense such "advertising" is easier than ..., there was a systemic jamb, no one will take anything anywhere, will not re-sort it, I propose without indignant naivete. "The opinion of the demanding public" in some situations for government agencies for most serious countries (regardless of Western or Eastern) - to exactly one place, not higher. Let at least write in the sport lotto, even at the UN. The maximum that relatives will pull out in the espchas is big compensation and that's it, absolutely everything. (and that's not a fact)

[Zaurbek]

In such cases, the normal MO should give money to the victims and close all questions. And not to dissolve public complaints and hearings. This is an army and anything can happen. The next orchestra - will send three letters and will not fly to Syria (this is me for example) ... - he will be immediately accused of treason and covered with shame ... And if this is not an orchestra, but some kind of engineers ...

[New Year day]

Quote: akarfoxhound

The Ministry of Defense figured out, and long ago, and immediately, and the reasons were established, and practically in a week

But because

Quote: akarfoxhound

But no one will tell you them

People turned to the truth. It is clear that they will not hear her there, but they will receive monetary compensation. After all, our MO is poor

[fruc]

Do not confuse bulk and military personnel. Although we do not know all the nuances of this case, if necessary, let the court reconsider.

[New Year day]

Quote: frruc

but if necessary, let the court reconsider.

Who needs it? MO is all clear - the pilots are to blame

[fruc]

https://mil.ru/files/morf/2.%20soc_garantii%201.01.2019.pdf

1. Insurance coverage.
In accordance with the Federal Law of March 28, 1998 No. 52-FZ
"On compulsory state life and health insurance
servicemen ... "in the event of the death (death) of a serviceman, members of his
families (beneficiaries) in equal shares are paid insurance
security in the amount (from January 1, 2019) 2 672 283,15 rubles.

2. Lump sum.
In accordance with the Federal Law of November 7, 2011 No. 306-FZ
"On the monetary allowance of servicemen and the provision of individual
payments "in the event of the death (death) of military personnel, which occurred during
the performance of their military service duties, family members in equal shares
a one-time benefit is paid in the amount of (from January 1, 2019)
4 008 424,71 rub

4. Monthly allowance for children of military personnel who died during
fulfillment of duties of military service.
In accordance with Federal Law No. 4-FZ dated June 2011, 128
"On the allowance for the children of military personnel and employees of some federal
6
executive authorities, deceased (deceased, declared dead,
recognized as missing) in the performance of duties
military service (official duties), and children of persons who died as a result of
military injury after dismissal from military service (service in the bodies and
institutions) "children of military personnel who died (deceased, declared
deceased, recognized as missing) upon execution
duties of military service, and children of persons who died as a result of military
injuries after dismissal from military service are entitled to monthly
allowance in the amount
(from January 1, 2019) RUB 2
The amount of the benefit in areas and localities where the regulatory legal
acts of the Russian Federation established regional coefficients
wages is determined using these coefficients.

[Avior]

... (from January 1, 2019)

Did you read?

[fruc]

Was reading. If you are confused by the year of publication, then I have given the approximate amounts that may appear in the case.

[Cananecat]

The lawyer will get a good fee anyway.
I alone have the impression that only he needs it?

[rotmistr60]

Not only you. Two years later, suddenly (?) 70 people. felt that their rights were violated and, moreover, the lawyer clicks on the fact that you can get ten times more than paid.

insurance payments of 2 million rubles for each deceased were paid to relatives. At the same time, the lawyer believes that everyone on board was insured for at least 22 million rubles each.

[seregatara1969]

It’s not clear to me who was wrong, the aft articles or the lawyer? The cause of the death of passengers has long been known - a fall from a great height. Or again, something is being wise with money and the memory of the victims of the disaster?

[Maxxcc]

Not suddenly two years later. You are bad with math.
Last year, a repeated cassation court dismissed the claim.
Reply

[Asad]

Trunov is generally a muddy pretzel, where a scandal smells like fried, right there. Call Soul in short.

[Asad]

Well, someone overloaded the plane?

[New Year day]

Quote: ASAD

Well, someone overloaded the plane?

He rebooted himself

[fruc]

Of course, you are right about the lawyer. We now have a lot of lawyers working for crime, and they are especially full in the capital, Moscow. And then there is clearly someone else in the share, possibly officials from the Ming. defense.

[Cananecat]

Quote: frruc

And then there is clearly someone else in the share, possibly officials from the Ming. defense.

What is the use of Defense Ministry officials?

[fruc]

Ordinary use is to receive the due interest from the advancement of this business.

[NIKN]

Quote: Canecat

I alone have the impression that only he needs it?

In one law office, a picture hangs on the wall that most accurately reflects the essence of this profession: two men argue over who owns the cow, one pulls it by the horns, the other by the tail ... And the lawyer calmly milks this cow.

[Zaurbek]

We have to work with people ... especially since the military and their direct relatives were killed.

[Roma 1977]

It's probably great to have dead relatives from whom you can hypothetically cut off another 22 lemma. For this, you can even take part in an information campaign against your country with the participation of the ECHR (do not be remembered at night). True, the decisions of the ECHR, it seems, are not valid on the territory of the Russian Federation. But what information background will be created!

[ork_333]

We woke up ... Apparently, the financial issue has become acute. It reminds me of the appeal to the court of the relatives of those killed in Beslan. The same dances on the bones.

[New Year day]

Quote: ork_333

Apparently, the financial issue has become acute. It reminds me of the appeal to the court of the relatives of those killed in Beslan. The same dances on the bones.

They wrote on paper, but forgot about the ravines
"After the Tu-22M3 plane crash: who will help the terminally ill child of Major Sultanov"
The 36-year-old navigator has two children, the youngest needs expensive treatment
https://ngs.ru/text/incidents/2021/04/10/69859856/?rec=editorial

[Aleksandr97]

Dancing on bones for the sake of an increase in the payment of compensation already received, now from the ECHR. Or that the relatives of the victims really expect that the perpetrators of overloading the plane will be punished somehow by the decision of the ECHR ???

[Nitarius]

do they live in GEYROPA? that they run there to complain or what? the brains of the people are completely rotten .. or behind this pathos is someone's ears sticking out and someone's head sticking out? Does our liberda think we can't see them? parasites edaki e

[decimalegio]

Are you aware that Russia is a member of the Council of Europe ???
Do you know that the ECHR was created by the countries that signed the Council of Europe, including Russia?
You know that there is a Russian judge in the court, like all the participating countries.
Why should Russian citizens not apply to the ECHR if it is provided for by Russian law ??

[BISMARCK94]

This case proves once again that our judicial system is rotten. But the trouble is that the ECHR is also a bit politicized. So it's hard to say where to relatives to go ...

[your1970]

Quote: BISMARCK94

This case proves once again that our judicial system is rotten.

Why such a conclusion in this particular case? Compensation was paid to them immediately - that is why the court refused them (there is nothing to collect). The amount of compensation for the deaths of servicemen is rigidly fixed - the fact that the lawyer drew them 22 million in a claim for each is his mriya ...

[keeper03]

Unfortunately, if everything is as it is written in the article, then you will not envy them!

[Roma 1977]

In the Russian language there are many capacious words and expressions, where to go. In ancient times in Russia, the culprit of a person's death could officially pay off his relatives with money, but usually it was considered shameful to take money for this. The expression was even: "I can't carry a dead son in my wallet." Not in Russian, it is litigating in foreign courts demanding money for the dead. Abomination.

[BISMARCK94]

That's why they are ancient. They ran to the ancients and after mammoths, and now they go to the five. Progress, it is everywhere)

[Maxxcc]

Quote: Fedor Sokolov

Well, of course, it is imperative to defend them (rights) in a hostile legal environment that is biased towards our country, where else if not in the Russophobic West.

Well, if the homeland closed the case, and the cassation court refused twice.? Name "not biased" and "not Russophobic", ready to continue the consideration of the case?

[Roma 1977]

The Motherland did the right thing. But the plaintiffs with a lawyer should be taken on a pencil. I bet you can dig up something there for an article or two of the Criminal Code.

[Avior]

It is strange to read how supporters of the authorities accuse the relatives of the victims of wanting money.
Many of the victims were left with children, elderly parents and other relatives who, in one way or another, were financially supported by the victims of the disaster.
Now they were left without this help and without relatives.
How is it necessary for the authorities to love to accuse the relatives of the victims of demanding compensation?

[Alexander Seklitsky]

Every day in our country people die in road accidents, die from diseases. Many are left without any compensation at all. This is life, this is how the world works.

[Avior]

And so what? Should children be deprived of compensation because of this?

[Roma 1977]

The compensation has been received long ago. And no one plans to deprive children.

[Avior]

This is not for you to decide.
Relatives decide this in the manner prescribed by law.
And it's not for you to blame them - it's their relatives who died, not yours

[your1970]

Quote: Avior

which, in one way or another, were financially supported by the victims of the disaster.
Now they were left without this help and without relatives.
How is it necessary for the authorities to love to accuse the relatives of the victims of demanding compensation?

What does it have to do with love of power??????? !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
For servicemen, the law clearly establishes the amount of compensation in case of death - these amounts were paid a long time ago. The survivor's pension is also paid.
That is why the courts refused them - there is nothing to collect.
And they still wanted 22 million each ...

[Avior]

They resolve these issues in the manner prescribed by law.
And I see how lovers of power hate them for this. Why, for children they want to condemn something in power, how greedy they are.

[your1970]

Quote: Avior

They resolve these issues in the manner prescribed by law.
And I see how lovers of power hate them for this. Why, for children they want to condemn something in power, how greedy they are.

- again, slower ...

There was an epic - a farmer in 2001-2003 bought 96 shares from fellow villagers for quite decent money at that time. He didn't throw or deceive anyone. Everything is honest, everything is done according to the documents.
Every year I brought all of them a little straw, a couple of sacks of grain - free of charge. Last year, he broke his arm, was in the hospital for a long time - in general, he did not give anything to anyone. The people were indignant - why, they always gave ...
Our lawyer - smelled profit - and wrote them all statements of claim in court - they say, the transaction is illegal, the farmer is a crook ...

I happened to be at one of the sessions:
- have you read the contract?
- Yes
- did you understand that you are selling the share in its entirety?
- Yes
- Have all received the money under the contract?
- Yes
- was the cost of the share average for the buyers?
- yes, even a little more he paid
- Did you sign the documents in the registration chamber?
- Yes.
- did he own the share openly? Did he plow it, sow it, mow it?
- well yes
- so what's the claim?
- so he did not bring straw
- and?
- Well, he always drove. It's unfair !!!!! He deceived us !!!
- in what?
- well, I always drove it, but I didn't bring it here ...

the most piquant -
1) 96 applications
2) 5 rubles from the nose
3) profit = 480 (!!!!!!!) rubles
4) looking for the next suckers

Do you understand what I mean? Everything is strictly within the framework of the law and legal proceedings.. If they had grandmothers - it is unlikely to go to The Hague, but to the regional and the Supreme - he would definitely bring them ... Write one claim and then change only your full name ...

[Avior]

It's just that your touching concern for their money knocks out a tear.
Despite the fact that it is obvious from your village stories that you absolutely do not represent the essence of their claim and the subject matter of the competence of the ECHR.
I wrote to you, it's not for you to decide.
They exercised their legal right.
And we'll see the result.

[your1970]

Quote: Avior

It's just that your touching concern for their money knocks out a tear.

-YES I DO NOT give a damn about their money !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
lawyers are pinning me - if you don't get it ...
A person makes a gesheft on anything - one on 96 deliberately losing cases, the other - .. well, let's see ... if everyone is paid 22 million -70 * 22 million = 1 billion 540 lyams ... his great-grandchildren will eat on gold ...

[Avior]

You haven't even read what the subject of the claim is, which has nothing to do with your village analogies :(

[your1970]

Quote: Avior

You haven't even read what the subject of the claim is, which has nothing to do with your village analogies :(

- they want to reopen the criminal case - to shake more dough from the MO ...

[Avior]

Read carefully
Claim for the right to a fair trial and compensation for the same
Your collective farm with bags to this no side

[Liam]

By the way ... congratulations on today's events at Euro ... a double blow of Fortune)

[your1970]

Ah, to a fair trial ?? Everything on everything? A lawyer - out of love for jurisprudence 70 lawsuits in The Hague zababahal ???? Vaughn, what ...
And remember one thing - "kolkhoz with sacks" feeds the victims, their relatives, and a lawyer ..
And when (and if!) - The Hague decides the question of compensation - then this is the same "collective farm with sacks" taken out of pocket money - in order to pay relatives 22 million.

[Avior]

Don't you know that people get paid for their work?
Doctors, teachers, lawyers, judges, and plumbers too. Litter trucks also work not out of love for work, but because they pay for it.
The money is taken from the one who is guilty and obliged to pay compensation

[your1970]

Quote: Avior

Don't you know that people get paid for their work?
Doctors, teachers, lawyers, judges, and plumbers too. Litter trucks also work not out of love for work, but because they pay for it.

-and you themselves if you paint an oil painting, servicemen also don't serve for free. They receive d / d, pension and housing. Since they may die - compensation for relatives and pensions for children. This is all - absolutely lawfully and fairly!!!! Their service is so dangerous ...
And no one argues with this - this, I repeat, - FAIRLY !!!!

And here a lawyer is drawn - who says "Yes, your native state shod at least 20 lamas each !!!! Alga to The Hague !!!!!" ...

but then two questions arise:

1)

Quote: Avior

The money is taken from the one who is guilty and obliged to pay compensation

- and who will be to blame? FAC? mechanic PSNOV? dispatcher? Shoigu?
Whoever of them is REALLY guilty - he has NOTICE there is no one and a half billion in your pocket, which in turn means that the money will be paid (by the decision of The Hague) by the Russian Federation ... From the budget - where is the money? "kolkhoz with sacks"(and not only !!!) are coming.

2) The same "kolkhoz with sacks" they will scratch their heads and say - we have 2 conscripts died in the Second Chechen War. Their parents were paid compensation - I don't remember the amounts, but not millions. So what are they WORSE these - that for them 100 (conditionally !!!) were given compensation, but this 000 million is not enough? !!!! The guys died in battle, one was even awarded posthumously ... Where's the justice???!!!!!!!

ZY and yet, be careful about the people, especially about the village ...
To offend them is much easier and safer ... Only flyers do not fly without bread and butter - no matter how strange it is

[Avior]

You do not know what the essence is, you argue, as much steam from your ears.
Either the Ministry of Defense or the body that conducted the investigation, that is, the state, is found guilty.
And then it can sue specific perpetrators

[your1970]

Quote: Avior

You do not know what the essence is, you argue, as much steam from your ears.

-you know ...everything is simple, boring and clear.....
13.01.2020
“As Interfax reminds, the relatives of the victims of the disaster went to court in December 2018. They demanded from the insurance company“ Sogaz ”, the reinsurer MSAmlin and the state airline“ 223 flying squadron ”of the Ministry of Defense 2,1 billion rubles. In April last year, the members families of those killed in the crash lost the case in the court of first instance.
As EADaily reported, the military transport Tu-154 crashed on its way from Sochi to Syria on December 25, 2016. All 92 people on board were killed. Among the passengers were members of the Aleksandrov Academic Song and Dance Ensemble of the Russian Army, as well as Elizaveta Glinka (Doctor Liza), who founded the Fair Help Foundation.
Last year, the High Court of London accepted the claims of the relatives of those killed in the disaster. The plaintiffs believe that their loved ones died during the international flight, and, therefore, they should be compensated not according to Russian, but foreign norms. ."
https://eadaily-com.turbopages.org/eadaily.com/s/ru/news/2020/01/13/krushenie-tu-154-v-sochi-rodstvenniki-prodolzhayut-nastaivat-na-kompensaciyah

Quote: Avior

Either the Ministry of Defense or the body that conducted the investigation, that is, the state, is found guilty.
And then it can sue specific perpetrators

-you yourself confirm what I wrote:

Quote: your1970

What in turn means what money will be paid (by the decision of The Hague) by the Russian Federation....From the budget - where the money of the "collective farm with bags" (and not only !!!) goes.

[Avior]

Of course, they will pay from the budget, if they are awarded, of course.
But the lawsuit is filed with the ECHR not on the essence of the case, but on violation of the provisions of the Convention by the state

[your1970]

Quote: Avior

But the lawsuit is filed with the ECHR not on the essence of the case, but on violation of the provisions of the Convention by the state

- one follows from the other automatically. If The Hague recognizes our rules as a violation of the Convention, then either we will declare their decision invalid on the territory of the Russian Federation, or we will pay ...
And then it turns out - that the life of a soldier who died in a plane crash 11 times more valuable than the life of a soldier who died in battle ...
Such a twist ...

[Avior]

Not the rules, but the actions of specific representatives of the state.
And in this case, it will be necessary to pay for the violation of the Convention, which they themselves signed, and not for the lives of the soldiers.

[your1970]

Quote: Avior

And in this case, it will be necessary to pay for the violation of the Convention, which they themselves signed, and not for the lives of the soldiers.

And what will fundamentally change in this situation

Quote: your1970

And then it turns out - that the life of a soldier who died in a plane crash is 11 times more valuable than the life of a soldier who died in battle ...
Such a twist ...

?????

[Roma 1977]

They were paid compensation. But this is greed.

[Avior]

If compensation is supposed, then the word greed must be applied to the authorities, they decided to save money on the children of the victims.

[Magog_]

"Either, or" ... In the cockpit during the crucial take-off period there was another crew (reserve or from the other side - only 8 people) - a distraction, which led to a gross error in the actions of the pilots. The flaps were retracted from the take-off position late, which led to the aircraft hitting supercritical angles of attack at low altitude, and then the so-called. "stall mode". Indirectly, this version is confirmed by the published records of the negotiations of the crew members on board the crashed plane ...

[Alexander Seklitsky]

Well, not everything is so simple. Flap desynchronization is quite probable. That is, one got away, the second remained, the plane began to rotate

Quote: Magog_

Late flaps retraction

They shouldn't have removed them at all. This is not done at such heights and speeds. And one more thing, why did the chassis cart end up on the shore? It is possible that the chassis bogie collapsed during takeoff and the wing mechanization was damaged.

[Magog_]

The landing gear cart was on the shore as a result of hitting the water in a crash. The commander, in the circumstances of the supercritical angle of attack, decided to lay an energetic turn to compensate for the excess lift. Similar actions are performed by the pilots of aircraft carriers with a catapult start: when leaving the deck, the aircraft has excessive lift (as a rule) and can quickly get to supercritical angles of attack, since the take-off mechanization cannot be instantly removed - that is, behind the cut of the deck, they also turn into a bend ... In our case, the plane managed to turn towards the coast and collapsed from a hit with water a few hundred meters from the coastline. And the phrase "flaps, s ... ka!", Addressed to the co-pilot or navigator, speaks in favor of this version ...

[Alexander Seklitsky]

where did they get their excess lift? takeoff speed slightly over 300 km / h.

Quote: Magog_

The commander, in the circumstances of the supercritical angle of attack, decided to lay an energetic turn,

Where did you get this from? According to the decoded data of the recorder, the problems began after the start of the flaps retraction.

[Magog_]

What is your misunderstanding? The flaps began to retract when it was already too late. Acceleration speed increases during takeoff, and everything must be done on time. All switching parameters are set in advance on the ground and are determined by calculations and tables depending on the takeoff weight of the vehicle. There is the speed of separation from the strip, the speed of the start of the landing gear, the speed of the start of the mechanization. The latter requires the greatest care, and delay in starting can lead to "stalling". Retraction of the flaps takes a significant amount of time, so you should not be late with the start of this procedure. The plane jumps at high angles of attack and quickly decelerates, there is no altitude sufficient to correct the situation on takeoff, the thrust-to-weight ratio is scanty (0.1 - 0.2 is not a fighter or even an attack aircraft!) indicated speed ...

[Alexander Seklitsky]

You contradict yourself. If the thrust-to-weight ratio is scanty, then there can be no excess lift, especially at a speed of 350 km / h, especially with a maximum take-off weight. The co-pilot began to retract the flaps in time, according to the speed. Then either one flap got stuck and a roll occurred, or there was a loss of speed.
here is a similar take-off from Sochi. The final retraction of the flaps occurs forty seconds after takeoff, already over the sea. So there was no way the crew could take them out late

[Magog_]

We found a good video. After leaving the runway for another five seconds, the plane accelerates with a climb. The take-off mechanization cleaning thus takes about 30 seconds! Be 10 -15 seconds late with the beginning of this procedure - and that's all, write it up ... It is clear from the negotiations of the crew that they noticed their delay already clearly over the sea. In the above video, you can see that the flap retraction was turned on when the plane was still over land. I repeat, a delay of 10 - 15 seconds is critical!

[Roma 1977]

Shoigu owes them nothing. The standard procedure for social benefits for the loss of a breadwinner, insurance, etc. works without involving top officials of the state.

[your1970]

Quote from rudolf

And by the way, this directly affects the size of payments.

-for military personnel in this situation, this does not affect in any way - they were on a business trip. XNUMX/XNUMX on duty ...

Quote from rudolf

I did not mean payments, but the right to receive truthful information about the death of loved ones.

-suppose they reopen the case and find out that they are guilty (in fact, for real !!), for example, the technician who prepared the plane. They give him, let's say, 10 years ...
From this it will immediately become easier for them ??? because because of the guilt of gouging or, on the contrary, a good person they died - will the relatives feel better?

[Avior]

And let's cancel all investigations and courts altogether - you can't return the deceased!

[sleeve]

I read that 5,8 million payments have been made. The case of 2 billion has been going on since 18, it seems. Run by this lawyer.

[Kushka]

Quote: mikh-korsakov

But all sorts of superfluous people from the Moscow elite, mostly human waste.

Explanation - the elite - those who sometimes wash, and the elite never at all.
П

[fiv]

What are we discussing here? Nobody saw or read the materials of the case (cases), the minutes of the meetings. Even if they had read it, more than half would not have understood. People have the right to go to court - they exercise it. In addition to materialistic ones, in many cases there are also personal motives. And there are those who inflate them.

[yfast]

Quote: Roma-1977

It's probably great to have dead relatives from whom you can hypothetically cut off another 22 lemma. For this, you can even take part in an information campaign against your country with the participation of the ECHR (do not be remembered at night).

The Defense Ministry is going to cut the hair, not the dead, and most importantly, maybe a couple of state officials will have hemorrhoids from this case, and, perhaps, in the future, they will take more care of the lives of servicemen, at least in peacetime. And not to blame everything on the dead switchmen. If the state does not sometimes try to beat the hands, it will turn into a gang with a bunch of privileges and without any obligations.

[your1970]

Quote: yfast

Gonna cut the moo, not the dead

And in our country, MO is a manufacturer of something? Does it bring money to the budget?

[Avior]

So specific officials will have to answer

[your1970]

Quote: Avior

So specific officials will have to answer

AND? They will be able to collect from SPECIFIC official 2 billion? As a result, the RF will pay ...

[Avior]

Officials will answer to the state, and to a private person - the state

[AC130 Gunship]

They gave 2 million per person, and, like, that's enough for them. It is not clear who counted and how. Those. according to their calculations, the life of a Russian is worth 2 million rubles. Little...

[your1970]

Quote: AC130 Ganship

It is not clear who counted and how.

You open Law about military service - everything is written there in black letters in white. How many payments are due in case of death ...

[AC130 Gunship]

A similar disaster happened in 1981. The commander's Tu104 of the Navy fell immediately on takeoff. I flew from St. Petersburg to Khabarovsk. Then at least they published the results of the investigation: they allegedly carried what kind of a load you could understand, and it was not secured and violated the alignment of the aircraft (another disaster was the same - 2003 L410 Dosaaf). Considering how quickly all the questions about Sochi were hushed up, there was a lot of things that should not have been ...

[Charik]

in the Russian Federation, the courts work for those who will give more money, there can be no word about any justice