Critical miscalculation of the Ministry of Defense. Consequences of limiting the supply of T-90M "Proryv-3" to combat units

132

Photo: Rostec / rostec.ru

Details of the preparations announced by the Russian defense department as part of the implementation of the state defense order for 2021 for the delivery of about 200 modernized main combat troops to the combat units of the Russian Ground Forces tanks The T-72B3, T-72B3M, T-80BVM, as well as the more advanced T-90M Proryv-3 MBT provided extremely serious food for thought to the expert and review communities.

In particular, only 90-3% (about 13-15 vehicles) of the total number of vehicles to be supplied to tank battalions, falling on the promising T-25M "Breakthrough-30", once again eloquently illustrated the disappointing tendency towards maintaining insufficient combat stability of motorized rifle regiments of the SV Russia in the key operational areas of the European conditional theater of military operations.



This alignment is due to nothing more than a whole range of gaps in the "armor protection" of the frontal projection of the T-72B3 / B3M tanks, for which the specialists of the General Staff and the Russian Defense Ministry, for quite understandable reasons (the cost of upgrading one T-72B to the B3 mod. 2016 / B3M is about 725-800 thousand dollars against 4,5 million dollars of the cost of the advanced T-90M), placed great hopes in resolving the issue of a hasty renewal of the tank fleet of motorized rifle units covering the Pskov, Kaliningrad and Leningrad regions in the Baltic operational direction.

Modern FCS and high firepower without proper armor protection will not provide the T-72B3M with domination in tank duels of the XXI century


So, despite the equipping of combatant T-72B3M MBTs with quite modern digitized tank information and control systems (TIUS) with an open architecture, more accurate 125-mm smooth-bore guns 2A46M5 with a 15-20% increase in the accuracy of fire and a 70% decrease in the total dispersion when firing on the move (achieved thanks to the integration of an optoelectronic barrel bending meter / CID into the design of the gun and the use of backlash-free trunnion blocks), as well as the Sosna-U advanced multispectral and multichannel gunner sights, the armor protection of the frontal projection of these vehicles is still leaves much to be desired.

With the 4C22 elements of the Kontakt-5 universal built-in DZ complex, the standard frontal armor plates of the T-72B3M turrets (represented by obstacles / niches of special armor made of “reflective sheets” with an equivalent resistance from BOPS of the order of 540–550 mm) received an increase in the equivalent resistance from armor-piercing feathered subcaliber projectiles of kinetic action of the order of 20%, reaching an indicator of 650 mm.

In the context of the implementation of the escalation scenario in the European theater of operations, where in the course of tank duels the likely enemy can use the M1A2 SEP v.3 MBT, the improved Leopard-2A7 modification, as well as the promising Challenger Mk.3 MBT, this level of armor protection will be absolutely insufficient ... After all, the M120A256 / E120 and DM55 armor-piercing feathered sub-caliber projectiles used by 1-mm tank guns M829 and Rh-3 / L4A63 have armor penetration of the order of 770/900 and 830 mm, respectively. And even earlier M829A1 and M829A2 will be able to easily overcome all T-72B3M frontal barriers at a distance of 1700-2000 m, because in this range of distances their armor penetration is 650-720 and 740-750 mm, respectively.

As for the advance use of the Reflex complexes from a distance of 9-119 km against the aforementioned enemy MBTs of the 1M1M5 Invar-M4 tank guided missiles from a distance of XNUMX-XNUMX km, the effectiveness of this pre-emptive fire is highly questionable, because all of the above vehicles will be equipped with Trophy active protection systems. or "Iron Fist", capable of intercepting such anti-tank shells.

Therefore, hypothetical close-range tank battles (with the use of BOPS) with the newest versions of the Abrams, Leopard-2 and Challengers-2 cannot be avoided by our weakly protected T-72B3 / B3M.

In this disappointing situation, when the program of deep modernization of the T-72B to the level of the T-72B2 / BM "Slingshot" ("Object 184M") was shelved and eventually frozen, the only objective solution can be only the intensification of large-scale production and accelerated delivery in combat units of the T-90M "Breakthrough-3" MBT, the equivalent resistance of the frontal projection of which varies in the range from 870 to 1100 mm, countering the armor penetration of the latest American and German BOPSs.
132 comments
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  1. +32
    17 June 2021 11: 03
    If in the heading "criticality ...", and in the text of the article the number of letters is approximately equal to numbers, then this is definitely Damantsev!)))
    1. +9
      17 June 2021 11: 05
      yeah, the dear flight is bathed according to the gait :)
      1. -5
        17 June 2021 12: 21
        In the context of the implementation of the escalation scenario in the European theater of operations, where in the course of tank duels the probable enemy

        There will never be such conditions ... All the analysis given in the article does not make sense ... Non-objective concrete and even clever reasoning does not make sense if they relate to fantastic unrealizable circumstances ... Let the author reflect on the creation, at least, of a concept, combat information systems (network-centric), which these tank duels will make possible, and which we do not have, but we can only dream of creating and implementing such systems ... NOT to be confused with ACCS systems, which count tanks and transmit commands to them and are almost useless in modern combat ... the latter do not work in real time and are morally outdated even before their appearance and involve the use of a human resource to obtain intelligence and its mass death ...
    2. +2
      17 June 2021 14: 25
      yes - the author is unmistakably recognizable by the title ... no further reading ...
      1. +5
        17 June 2021 15: 35
        In the context of the implementation of the escalation scenario in the European theater of operations, where in the course of tank duels a potential enemy can use the M1A2 SEP v.3 MBT, the improved Leopard-2A7 modification, as well as the promising Challenger Mk.3 MBT, this level of armor protection will be absolutely insufficient ...
        Already in the goiter the breath stole ... Well Damantsev, this is Damantsev, he has some grain, but ... The question is, when is the fight scheduled? Are we too late to throw out money for the rearmament of all tank units in the Armata? Or will we have time yet? There is no answer to this question. Is it still possible to allocate money for science, mechanical engineering and machine-tool building, or is it too late? Otherwise, there will be no high-precision machines for the production of promising equipment, and we will remain at the T90 level. Or is it too late? The main thing is to put the T90 everywhere?
      2. 0
        20 June 2021 15: 19
        "Chef, Usyo is gone, tomorrow they will take off the plaster!"
    3. -4
      18 June 2021 18: 26
      Quote: Leader of the Redskins
      If in the heading "criticality ...", and in the text of the article the number of letters is approximately equal to numbers, then this is definitely Damantsev!)))

      Every time I honestly try to read Damantsev to the end and merge into half of the article, it is very difficult to read.
    4. Maz
      +1
      19 June 2021 13: 15
      Damantsev? I just saw the title, immediately guessed and understood who wrote the article, and I was not mistaken, when will he be kicked out or taught at last? ,
    5. Aag
      +1
      21 June 2021 18: 58
      Quote: Leader of the Redskins
      If in the heading "criticality ...", and in the text of the article the number of letters is approximately equal to numbers, then this is definitely Damantsev!)))

      This is already a promotion on the site, sports, -first guess the author- get a bunch of pluses?
      Well, yes, it’s necessary to "sit in ambush, watch, graze, and shoot first!"?)))
      I tried to work out an "immune response" - not to read the first comments ... It doesn't work, - and after three, five days, comments like: "I haven't read the article, but ..." Why is this information to readers? Self-expression? IMHO, - dubious. I do not like the author, - either objective criticism, or, - ignore (no rating, - the editorial staff of the site will make a choice, - the author will either "bend", or, rethink the form of material presentation) .... hi
      1. 0
        21 June 2021 19: 39
        You are wrong. It was thanks to massive critical comments that we got rid of Kharaluzhny, Frolova and some others.
        And if there are at least few, but positive - neutral comments, then they will print.
        1. Aag
          +2
          21 June 2021 20: 23
          Quote: Leader of the Redskins
          You are wrong. It was thanks to massive critical comments that we got rid of Kharaluzhny, Frolova and some others.
          And if there are at least few, but positive - neutral comments, then they will print.

          Judging by a number of your other comments, you perfectly know the difference between criticism and blaming ...
          As the experience of domestic mass media shows, -worst for the rating, -ignor!
          Isn't that why so much dirt and scandals? hi
  2. +8
    17 June 2021 11: 12
    Recently I stopped reading Damantsev's articles. Information is not perceived, in any way.
    1. +17
      17 June 2021 11: 46
      Modern FCS and high firepower without proper armor protection will not provide the T-72B3M with domination in tank duels of the XXI century
      I agree with you, how to perceive the phrase about tank duels, for example? Even in World War II, one cannot say that there were many duels, and now even more so. Tanks, in principle, are not created to fight other tanks, this function is assigned to them only when there are no other means left.
      1. +8
        17 June 2021 11: 58
        Quote: Torins
        Modern FCS and high firepower without proper armor protection will not provide the T-72B3M with domination in tank duels of the XXI century
        I agree with you, how to perceive the phrase about tank duels, for example? Even in World War II, one cannot say that there were many duels, and now even more so. Tanks, in principle, are not created to fight other tanks, this function is assigned to them only when there are no other means left.


        There was a certain semblance of tank duels in the first Iraq.
        Massive enough.
        Three Iraqi armored divisions met in a direct tank battle against three US armored divisions.
        1. +3
          17 June 2021 12: 04
          Apparently, the Iraqis had no other means to destroy US tanks, or the command of the Iraqi army decided to simply drain the tanks. Moreover, the Iraqis had a main tank like the T-55, at that time it was no longer particularly relevant.
          1. +4
            17 June 2021 22: 41
            Quote: Torins
            Apparently, the Iraqis had no other means to destroy US tanks, or the command of the Iraqi army decided to simply drain the tanks. Moreover, the Iraqis had a main tank like the T-55, at that time it was no longer particularly relevant.

            The T-72 was the main ...
          2. +5
            18 June 2021 14: 49
            This tank-versus-tank battle took place at night.
            Abrams from 2 km were seen as in the daytime and hit with uranium BOPS confidently.
            Hit - break.
            The Iraqis tried to get close to 1 km, their standard distance,
            but they couldn't.
        2. +7
          17 June 2021 12: 10
          This exception and the old modification of them 72 in principle could not lead a duel. In fact, the Abrams worked like a tank destroyer. Cheap and cheerful. Even so, 72 percent of tank losses there were not from enemy tanks in the end.
          1. +3
            17 June 2021 22: 47
            Quote: carstorm 11
            This exception and the old modification of them 72 in principle could not lead a duel. In fact, the Abrams worked like a tank destroyer. Cheap and cheerful. Even so, 72 percent of tank losses there were not from enemy tanks in the end.

            This was not an "old" modification.
            It was a tank, which at that time was an actual model, was in service with the Iraqi army, and was not planned to be replaced.
            The Americans also had tanks that matched those years.
            Note, many years have passed since then ...
            And there was a tank battle.
            It all started with him.
            And there was a storm that did not allow the army aviation to operate
            And the lost Yankees who went head-on to the Iraqis.
            And the Iraqis, who were the first to find the enemy and for almost 5 minutes created a huge, albeit useless flurry of fire.
            The Iraqis began to shoot from 2400-2700 meters.
            Zero.
            And then, it was the enemy tanks that destroyed 25% of the Iraqi tanks that participated in that clash.
            And only then, with the improvement of the weather, the army aviation went into action.
            1. 0
              18 June 2021 06: 02
              Arrived .. you would at least have studied the Iraqi tank park ... the Urals, m and m1, with what it is mostly Polish, this is awesome actual cars for that time ...
          2. +2
            18 June 2021 14: 52
            From tanks. An American walked through the tanks already knocked out by the Abrams.
            assault aviation. For finishing. And destroyed / set fire to Iraqi tanks so that
            it became impossible to find the holes from the tank crowbar.
            1. -2
              18 June 2021 14: 56
              And if there are no holes, then you found out how?)))
              1. 0
                19 June 2021 11: 15
                THE BIGGEST QUESTION ... what are you trying to say with these denials? That the modernization of the T-72 to the level of the T-72B3M, they say, is enough and the absence of larger orders for the T-90M is not at all critical ... and so it will come down, where are you leading?)
                1. -2
                  19 June 2021 18: 51
                  B 3 is a mass machine. There are already more than 1200 of them and that says it all. As for the 90M, it is only the third year that they have been doing it. There is no criticality in orders. UVZ not only makes 90, but also a bunch of different equipment. It is not rubber.
        3. -3
          17 June 2021 12: 29
          Give me a link ... And that the US tank divisions included APACH helicopters and aviation, which destroyed Iraqi equipment?
          It's obvious, it's just that the pi_ndos did not expect such a speed of movement of the Iraqi armored vehicles ... but they did not have time to turn around ...
          1. +2
            17 June 2021 22: 52
            Quote: VO3A
            Give me a link ... And that the US tank divisions included APACH helicopters and aviation, which destroyed Iraqi equipment?
            It's obvious, it's just that the pi_ndos did not expect such a speed of movement of the Iraqi armored vehicles ... but they did not have time to turn around ...

            You have everything from head to foot.
            Look for the old magazines of the Western Military District, where our military personnel and analysts had everything laid out.
            And the Iraqis did not do any maneuvers, 75% of their tanks were dug in shelters.
            They were waiting for the Americans.
            And they were the first to see the Americans.
            And they were the first to open fire on the Americans.
            And they beat the Americans for almost 5 minutes, until those who got lost woke up, decided and began to fight.
            And yes, there really were sandstorms that prevented the army aviation from operating at the initial stage.
            Aviation came later.
            A few hours later.
            Destroy those tanks that left the battlefield ...
            1. -6
              18 June 2021 12: 47
              Quote: SovAr238A
              Look for the old magazines of the Western Military District, where our military personnel and analysts had everything laid out.

              Themselves and read ZVO No. 6 1991 on page 11-13, where all your stupidity is refuted by military experts. Here is a scan of one of them.
        4. +1
          17 June 2021 13: 09
          Quote: SovAr238A
          Three Iraqi armored divisions met in a direct tank battle against three US armored divisions.

          Leave fantasizing, because the biggest battle where tanks were used was at the level of two or three battalions on the Iraqi side. So there was no talk of massive use of tanks even in that war. considered that air strikes and the CD are more effective.

          Quote: VO3A
          ... And that the US tank divisions included APACH helicopters and aircraft, which destroyed Iraqi equipment?

          As part of the armored and mechanized divisions of the United States, there was an army aviation brigade:
          1. -2
            17 June 2021 22: 57
            Quote: ccsr
            Quote: SovAr238A
            Three Iraqi armored divisions met in a direct tank battle against three US armored divisions.

            Leave fantasizing, because the biggest battle where tanks were used was at the level of two or three battalions on the Iraqi side. So there was no talk of massive use of tanks even in that war. considered that air strikes and the CD are more effective.

            Learn military history.
            Read old ZVO magazines ...
            You will talk less nonsense.
            In the first Iraqi, about 900 tanks were actually involved from NATO and so many from Iraq.

            Aviation and the CD suppressed objects.
            Radar, air defense, headquarters, communication centers, energy, bridges and intersections, airfields and fuel system.
            Warehouses of food and weapons.

            Learn the real story so that you no longer carry nonsense.
            1. -5
              18 June 2021 11: 44
              Quote: SovAr238A
              In the first Iraqi, about 900 tanks were actually involved from NATO and so many from Iraq.

              These are the forces and means of both sides, and not the tanks that took part in tank battles. By the way, the coalition had over a thousand tanks.
              Quote: SovAr238A
              Aviation and the CD suppressed objects.

              It sounds loud, indeed it was, but they did not hit a single SCUD. And what have tank battles got to do with it?
              Quote: SovAr238A
              Learn the real story so that you no longer carry nonsense.

              I know what happened in the first Gulf War and not from the media, unlike you. However, you have not really studied the media. Here is what military professionals wrote about that war:
              In 2008, the Institute of Military History of the Ministry of Defense of the Russian Federation published a 764-page work "The Art of War in Local Wars and Armed Conflicts." With regard to the wars in Iraq, it draws the following conclusion. “It was characteristic of the Gulf War that ...in this war, the dominant place belonged to strategic and operational means, represented by ... aviation, as well as missile means. Tactical formations and their actions (infantry, tank, and artillery formations and units) did not determine the "face" of the operation ..., its course and outcome.»
              A.V. Usikov, G.A. Burutin, V.A. Gavrilov, S.L. Tyshlykov, under the general editorship of Colonel-General A.S. Rukshin, Moscow, Military Publishing, 2008, p. 308

              https://topwar.ru/38843-takticheskie-uroki-dvuh-poslednih-voyn-iraka-dlya-obschevoyskovogo-komandira.html
              1. 0
                18 June 2021 16: 44
                Aviation and the CD suppressed objects.

                only they did not hit a single SCUD

                Wait: Apaches and Warthogs just shot a lot of Scuds.
                1. -4
                  18 June 2021 17: 08
                  Quote: 3danimal
                  Wait: Apaches and Warthogs just shot a lot of Scuds.

                  Can you confirm the information by providing a link to a reliable source?
        5. +2
          17 June 2021 19: 28
          Three Iraqi armored divisions met in a direct tank battle against three US armored divisions.

          Purely by chance, if not for the dust storm in which the Americans got lost.
          1. +1
            17 June 2021 22: 59
            Quote: Konnick
            Three Iraqi armored divisions met in a direct tank battle against three US armored divisions.

            Purely by chance, if not for the dust storm in which the Americans got lost.


            Not by chance.
            And they did not get lost.
            The Americans with the forces of 3 tank divisions went to Iraq.
            3 Iraqi armored divisions were waiting for the Americans
            The dust storm played into the hands of the Iraqis.
            They were the first to find the Americans.
            And they were the first to open fire on the Americans.
      2. +6
        17 June 2021 12: 34
        Quote: Torins
        how to take, for example, the phrase about tank duels?

        As a phrase said for a "catchphrase".
        Tanks can operate successfully (and this is well known since the Second World War) only in cooperation with infantry, artillery, aviation, etc.
        Yes, the security of the T-72B3, a tank obtained during modernization during a major overhaul, is lower than that of the new T-90, but it allows you to perform tasks in modern combat. Of course, using the correct tactics, sufficient combat, technical and logistical support.
        An example of a successful offensive by German tank groups in 1941, when they did not include such KV and T-34 tanks, is known to everyone.
        Of course, it would be even better to arm all tank units with T-90 or Armata, but ... the "gold reserve" is limited, there are a lot of urgent needs where you need to spend money, and strategic stability is provided not by the TA, but by the Strategic Missile Forces "and the company."
        1. +1
          17 June 2021 12: 40
          I do not argue with this hi
      3. 0
        17 June 2021 17: 42
        Tanks, in principle, are not created to fight other tanks, this function is assigned to them only when there are no other means left.

        The main targets for tanks on the battlefield are just tanks and they are destroyed in the first place (with the exception of missile launchers), as the most dangerous. Mobile ATGMs are used as an anti-tank reserve to repel enemy counterattacks in the offensive and eliminate tank breakthroughs in defense.
        1. +3
          17 June 2021 18: 23
          In which military school did you learn this and when?
          1. +5
            17 June 2021 18: 54
            Read the Combat Manual for the preparation and conduct of combined arms combat. Part 3 (platoon, squad, tank)
            First of all, tanks and other armored targets, anti-tank weapons are destroyed ...

            Something like that.
      4. +3
        17 June 2021 21: 24
        That is, there is no likelihood of meeting a tank on the opposite side of the tank? Tanks will definitely be used from both sides, and how they do not meet, will they run away from each other or what? So you can agree that the fighters will not fight each other. So in the Donbass, the tanks met each other. In the wars with the barialeys, yes, there is only a meeting with carts possible, for this and BMP, BMPT is better.
      5. +1
        18 June 2021 15: 50
        Quote: Torins
        Even in World War II, one cannot say that there were many duels, and now even more so.

        So in the WWII, we and the Yankees considered the tank to be a means of fighting the infantry, and the enemy tanks were to be dealt with by anti-tank vehicles and tank destroyers. In our armored vehicles from October 1942, order No. 325 was in force, in which it was directly stated that:
        Tanks do not fulfill their main task of destroying enemy infantry, but are distracted by the battle with enemy tanks and artillery. The established practice of opposing our enemy tanks with tank attacks and getting involved in tank battles is wrong and harmful.

        5. When enemy tanks appear on the battlefield, artillery wages the main fight against them. Tanks engage in battle with enemy tanks only in case of clear superiority in forces and an advantageous position.

        The corps should not get involved in tank battles with enemy tanks if there is no clear superiority over the enemy... In the event of a meeting with large enemy tank units, the corps allocates anti-tank artillery and part of the tanks against enemy tanks, the infantry, in turn, puts forward its anti-tank artillery, and the corps, screened by all these means, bypasses enemy tanks with its main forces and strikes the enemy infantry with a goal tear it away from enemy tanks and paralyze the actions of enemy tanks. The main task of a tank corps is to destroy enemy infantry.

        Quote: Torins
        Tanks, in principle, are not created to fight other tanks, this function is assigned to them only when there are no other means left.

        Not. The antipersonnel of the tank ended with the end of WWII. Then the tank became a universal, and the fight against enemy tanks became one of its tasks.
        All this fuss with rifled and smooth-bore guns, with an increase in the caliber of guns, with "godfathers" and "crowbars", with the TUR was needed exclusively to increase the anti-tank capabilities of tanks. For the Yankees, the tank was generally considered one of the main anti-tank weapons (after helicopters). An oncoming tank battle in the Fulda Corridor, repelling Soviet tank attacks by tanks firing from reverse slopes at descent angles, etc., etc.
    2. bar
      +3
      17 June 2021 12: 27
      Quote: Timon2155
      Recently I stopped reading Damantsev's articles.

      Likewise. And for a long time I had a proposal to the editors of VO to place the author's full name at the beginning of the article, and not at the end, so that readers do not waste extra time.
      Although, in fairness, this does not apply to this article. The article is surprisingly compact, and the author is unmistakably identified by the very first word in the title. laughing
      1. +1
        17 June 2021 12: 41
        Great idea! I would not have read Samsonov yet, but it is usually determined from the first paragraph))
    3. 0
      17 June 2021 12: 43
      It's not true, information is perceived very well, makes you think, brings benefits, introduces opportunities and achievements ... There is information, data is systematized, deep study is visible ... These are not empty, useless comments, as in most cases ... This is work , and not an empty regular quirk ...
    4. 0
      17 June 2021 18: 20
      Because it burns from the bitter truth. Yes?
  3. -15
    17 June 2021 11: 13
    The fact is that the T-72B3 currently has no rivals among the enemies. The T-90 is better, but only the T-72B3 is better, which is already top of the top.
    So it is understandable why the Ministry of Defense does not want to spend money on the replacement of tank # 1.
    1. +12
      17 June 2021 11: 29
      Quote: Trickster
      The fact is that the T-72B3 currently has no rivals among the enemies. The T-90 is better, but only the T-72B3 is better, which is already top of the top.

      Has no channels in the world wassat laughing
    2. +5
      17 June 2021 12: 23
      All these tanks are powerless against anti-tank systems of the 3rd - 4th generations in service with NATO there are already a lot of these complexes, and the complex of active protection for armored vehicles from us, apparently, has not been accepted by one continuous chatter for 20 years.
      1. +1
        19 June 2021 08: 01
        Quote: Vadim237
        All these tanks are powerless against anti-tank systems of the 3rd - 4th generations in service with NATO there are already a lot of these complexes, and the complex of active protection for armored vehicles from us, apparently, has not been accepted by one continuous chatter for 20 years.

        The only correct conclusion from everything written on the topic here. As tanks in the terminology of the Second World War were boxes, so they remained. Let them burn. Only the crews are sorry.
  4. 0
    17 June 2021 11: 32
    laughing The master can be seen from the first syllables. This is what your handwriting means.
  5. +1
    17 June 2021 11: 34
    Panyatna! Escape to drip a trench ... wassat The author is apparently waiting for an enemy armada of tanks sailing across the Channel and the Atlantic. And all the acrome is cheerful, and also KAZ Trophy. Only I hasten to upset the author, the war will be fought with missiles and bombs, and if tank duels take place, it will be from the category of accident. Yes, and expect Leo7, Abrams sept. or Challenger 3.0 on the territory of the Russian Federation is possible only in the wildest fantasies of the inhabitants of Ukraine. I'm not even talking about flimsy bridges, lack of roads and narrow-gauge railways, well, they will not fight with us in the next 20 years with modern tanks. Everyone knows this, and that's why T72 b3, not Armata. Our equipment will meet with them on the territory of other countries, yes. And in 20 years there will be a different concept and different armored vehicles ... or not.
    1. +2
      17 June 2021 11: 44
      It's time to flood the swamps in the western direction. So that the adversaries do not pass
      1. +12
        17 June 2021 12: 37
        You can simply stop doing even the patching of roads that are being done now. And that will be enough lol
      2. +3
        17 June 2021 13: 13
        Did you see the weather in Voronezh yesterday? The waterlogging plans were exceeded! wassat
      3. 0
        19 June 2021 18: 09
        And spray haloperidol over the area where the Damantsevs live.
    2. +1
      17 June 2021 23: 18
      Quote: Marachuh
      Panyatna! Escape to drip a trench ... wassat The author is apparently waiting for an enemy armada of tanks sailing across the Channel and the Atlantic. And all the acrome is cheerful, and also KAZ Trophy. Only I hasten to upset the author, the war will be fought with missiles and bombs, and if tank duels take place, it will be from the category of accident. Yes, and expect Leo7, Abrams sept. or Challenger 3.0 on the territory of the Russian Federation is possible only in the wildest fantasies of the inhabitants of Ukraine. I'm not even talking about flimsy bridges, lack of roads and narrow-gauge railways, well, they will not fight with us in the next 20 years with modern tanks. Everyone knows this, and that's why T72 b3, not Armata. Our equipment will meet with them on the territory of other countries, yes. And in 20 years there will be a different concept and different armored vehicles ... or not.

      War always happens "suddenly" and you have to fight with what you have ...
      There is here and now.
      No one will wait for the enemy to re-equip with a more modern one, gain adequate forces and reserves.
      Wars between states are now very fleeting.
      And they fight with what they have.
      5as now have fewer combat aircraft than died in the air in the first week of the Second World War.
      Now the plane is being built, not produced.
      For the issue of 1-3 pieces per month is now normal.
      And now compare with the release of 35 thousand only IL-2 during the Second World War.
      25 pieces per day.
      Apart from other types and models of aircraft.
      No reserves
      Neither technique nor people.
      Modern warfare is aimed at destroying infrastructure.
      And without infrastructure, we are modern people, we can no longer.
      And the army, without modern infrastructure, can no longer do the same.
      The army cannot live without roads.
      The army cannot live without concrete airfields.
      The army cannot live without electricity.
      The army cannot live without communication.
      The army cannot do without intelligence ...
      All this was possible 75 years ago, when life was completely different.
      When 9 out of 10 knew how to harness a horse, fix a cart, dig a trench and live with lice and unwashed for a week, or even a month.
      Now look at the modern way of life
  6. -5
    17 June 2021 11: 37
    You might think that a potential enemy is already fighting on intergalactic cruisers, and we are all on chariots. What nonsense again ?! ... written ... "everything is gone, the client is leaving"
    1. +7
      17 June 2021 11: 54
      Quote: Fedor M
      You might think that a potential enemy is already fighting on intergalactic cruisers, and we are all on chariots.

      Not yet, but we are confidently moving towards this. It all starts with an inconspicuous person, whose position is called "school teacher".
  7. +4
    17 June 2021 11: 37
    For "Armata" it is insulting in one word ((
    1. +2
      17 June 2021 12: 20
      Armata turned out to be too expensive and complicated - if mass purchases begin, then most likely already in the 2027 -2033 program.
      1. -1
        17 June 2021 22: 47
        bulk purchases is a lope? .. Armata will go to the battalion per year since the 25th year, I think about stable ... about the T-90M ... last year they put a company, this year already a battalion ... real deliveries will be at the level of 70 80 cars i.e. the same 2 battalions per year.
    2. -5
      17 June 2021 17: 10
      Armata needs 152mm gun !!! Then you don't have to shoot a bullet 3-5 km with Zhiguli. Scrap 152mm guns will be cheaper. You can also use cheaper missiles from Chrysanthemum with a breakdown of more than a meter and the inability to intercept them by KAZ. For the speed of the chrysanthemum rocket fly at a speed of 400m / s. And as we all know, KAZ cannot intercept a supersonic ATGM.
      Armata with 152mm gun is the decision of the entire zoo of tanks in our army. And the level of security and firepower.
      1. +2
        17 June 2021 17: 16
        I'm certainly not a specialist, but the automatic loader for 152mm will have to be done from 0, and it's not a fact that this task is feasible in the required volume and taking into account the wishes of the military in terms of the number and range of ammunition. A heavy weapon will require reinforcement of the turret drives, and the turret on the Armata is already overloaded with functions - there are many nuances here, it seems to me .. the fact that the project has a potential for 152mm does not mean that it will be a good decision.
        1. +2
          17 June 2021 17: 18
          They did it in MSTA-S, but they won't be able to do it here. AZ from the aft niche of the tower is easier than lifting in 64, 72, 80 and 90kov.
          The French and Yapi made their own AZ from the feed niche.
      2. +7
        17 June 2021 18: 05

        Armata needs 152mm gun !!!

        Have you ever fired from a 125mm tank gun? In calm weather or when the wind rises in the stern after a shot, such a dusty (snowy in winter) cloud rises that it is not visible from the tank where the projectile is flying. And this happens even when shooting outright0. A 152mm shot raises an even larger cloud. This was one of the reasons why this caliber was abandoned in Soviet times. And it didn't go beyond the experimental T-80. Well, besides this, there were other reasons. More caliber, less ammunition. Greater projectile weight, more loading difficulties. Placing an autoloader with a heavy side-box in the turret niche affects the turret and the vehicle as a whole for the worse. A more powerful gun requires larger recoil devices, and they eat up the volume inside the turret. Well, etc. etc.
        So it's not that simple with the increase in caliber.
        1. 0
          18 June 2021 10: 07
          I know. But you are still marking time. The choice of the 125mm gun versus the 152mm gun on Object 632 was precisely for the reasons you described. No doubt about it. But now we are talking about the T-14 Armata.
          Its tower is uninhabited and, unlike the same object 632, it is not necessary to place the commander and gunner there.
          Secondly. AZ for 152mm round with separate loading already exists, this is AZ for 2S19. It only needs to be converted to fit the armata tower.
          Third. A dusty cloud rises from all shots, you are now concerned about a dusty cloud or guaranteed destruction of enemy equipment and firing points at distances inaccessible to enemy return fire.
          The fourth in the history of tank building in the USSR is an armored vehicle that SUCCESSFULLY passed all tests with a 152mm gun. Object 120. It did not go into production, because Khrushchev's passion for missiles gave way to a competitor of the competition, the IT-1 missile tank.
          Fifth. About the experimental T-80. I'm afraid you are confusing something. There was an object Hammer, aka Boxer, which gave way to our T-14. Initially, both of these projects involved an UNHABITABLE turret with a 152mm gun. The Boxer object was embodied in metal and did not reach the series due to the collapse of the USSR.
          Sixth. The infantry will thank you if you push the enemy back with land mines and 152mm guns, which are much more powerful than a 125mm land mine.
          SO THAT ON THE TOTAL BENT WITH YOU DOES NOT AGREE!
          1. +1
            18 June 2021 10: 24
            Have you seen the "barn" (tower) on 2c19? Why do you think it is so huge? That's right, because of the automatic loader of 152mm shots (well, there is also the specifics of loading the charges, but not particularly). Do you offer the same to "Armata" zababahat? On the experimental T-80 (it is located in Kubinka, object 292, it happened to me to visit it), they could not create a loading mechanism in the dimensions of the tank.
            Dust clouds vary in size and volume. And I would rather see where the projectile hit in order to correct the shooting, than shove a large caliber into the white light, like a pretty penny. Modern calibers of tank guns make it possible to confidently hit modern tanks at ranges of actual fire. At this stage in the development of tankostronium, an increase in caliber is not required. Therefore, they have not yet been installed on the Armata 152.
            1. 0
              18 June 2021 10: 32
              Ammunition AZ 2S19 50 rounds. The tank's standard ammunition load is half that. You look a little wider. And then you have all the same: THIS TRYING - IT WASN'T WORKED WELL AND WELL Nafig IT! One thing I can’t understand. The Germans with phrases began work on the future MBT with a 130 Rheinmetall or 140mm gun, and then we will urgently finish the Armata? It already happened when the 100mm D-10T was stripped of its rifling and the result was a 115mm 2A20 gun. And they did it because the British created their 105mm L7. May be enough?!
              1. +1
                18 June 2021 10: 36
                Standard tank ammunition 44-46 rounds, depending on the object. Do not confuse only with mechanized stacking where 22/28.
                1. 0
                  18 June 2021 10: 50
                  This is not a standard ammunition load. And I am not confusing. I know the difference with the shots in the AZ and the shells and charges spread across the fighting compartment. In an uninhabited tower, there is no one to manually recharge the AZ, so we are examining only the AZ. 25 shots per barrel is ENOUGH!
                  1. +3
                    18 June 2021 11: 46
                    Ammunition in non-mechanized stowage is not for manual loading of the gun, but for replenishing the mezanized stowage. The ammunition load of the tank, according to the correct requirement of the Ministry of Defense, should be more than 40 shots. So, in your opinion, in Armet, in view of the fact that the tower is uninhabited and there is no one to manually charge there, there should be no non-mechanized packing. Accordingly, all 40 plus 152mm shots must be crammed into the automatic loader. What a shed in the form of a tower she would have to carry!
                    About 25 shots per barrel is enough, except for laughter, nothing causes me to laugh. Tell this to any tanker who has fought. In the first Chechnya, guys from 133reps pushed additional shots even into the pipes of the OPVT in their eighties. Since there is never a lot of ammunition. We didn't do that, we didn't even use the storage tank. They were afraid of explosions. But with my platoon in the maneuvering group, the Ural "Natashka" was always loaded with ammunition.
                    You are confusing the full ammunition load and the standard ammunition load carried in the tank. The full ammunition load of the tank consists of a battalion carried in a tank and an additional battalion carried in transport. The full ammunition load exceeds the one transported by the tank.
                    Just like the machine gun has 450 rounds of ammunition. Of these, 120 are in stores, 60 are in dies, the rest is in a duffel bag / knapsack.
              2. +1
                18 June 2021 10: 41
                On the development of 140mm guns in the West.
                All projects for their development did not go beyond the experimental ones and the projects were frozen for various reasons. The French have advanced farthest, but the project has not received development either.
                1. 0
                  18 June 2021 10: 51
                  Same as 130mm Rheinmetal.
            2. 0
              18 June 2021 16: 16
              Quote: Old Tankman
              Have you seen the "barn" (tower) on 2c19? Why do you think it is so huge? That's right, because of the automatic loader of 152mm shots (well, there is also the specifics of loading the charges, but not particularly).

              PMSM, in 2S19 UVN guns also played a role. To ensure rollback at 68 degrees without hitting the bottom of the hull, the trunnions will have to be raised higher than that of the tank.
              1. -1
                18 June 2021 16: 30
                A shed for 2s19 is not only in height, but also in the length and width of the tower. In a tank, the height of the turret will also have to be increased (compared to the current ones) even at lower gun elevation angles. Due to the longer charging chamber and greater recoil value.
          2. The comment was deleted.
          3. +1
            18 June 2021 10: 33
            Here it is, object 292.
            1. 0
              18 June 2021 10: 56
              Object Hammer, aka Boxer.
              1. +1
                18 June 2021 11: 58
                The difference is that this is a normal tank. From scratch, so to say. Object 292 is purely experimental. To check the feasibility of installing a 152mm gun into the tank. And at that time, the experiment showed that the sheep was not worth the candle.
                1. 0
                  18 June 2021 12: 07
                  Here, rather, the goal of the experiment is whether it is possible to shove a 152mm gun into the turret of a standard T-80.
                  1. 0
                    18 June 2021 12: 11
                    Not. It was clear from the start that it was impossible to push it into a standard tower. The tower will be clearly larger and heavier. Therefore, steel plates can be seen on the tower to increase its mass. There is no MP in this tank at all.
  8. +6
    17 June 2021 11: 46
    An assault tank is needed, not just another anti-tank. As it is possible to accompany the infantry tanks with active defense systems, will kill their own. Why do they need MBT in a motorized rifle battalion, they need equipment capable of extinguishing enemy firing points in urban conditions, in rough terrain, i.e. with the ability to conduct hinged fire, fire with remote detonation and a short-range air defense function.
    1. DMi
      0
      17 June 2021 11: 59
      The T72 B3 has shells with remote detonation in its inventory.
    2. +2
      17 June 2021 17: 12
      Those. Terminator. So they accepted him already and they went to the combat units. Two 30k is more than enough to smoke in urban conditions from behind the walls of spirits. AGS work on hinges. Well, if you ran into a tank, then he has 4 ATGMs.
      1. 0
        17 June 2021 17: 27
        Those. Terminator

        Not really, the Terminator is not for close combat, the weapon module is not protected by armor. The Terminator is also for open spaces and long range combat. We need a technique for direct support of the infantry.
        1. -1
          18 June 2021 10: 09
          The module is not protected, but the main thing is the crew under the armor. And the module is a piece of iron.
  9. DMi
    -1
    17 June 2021 11: 58
    Is this author some sort of local animator? To amuse the audience from time to time?
  10. 0
    17 June 2021 12: 13
    I think all this is understandable to the armored control of the General Staff. But there is no money, which means that all the discussions are still empty.
    1. 0
      17 June 2021 12: 50
      Quote: Sergey 777
      I think all this is understandable to the armored control of the General Staff.

      There is no such directorate of the General Staff, this is the structure of the Ministry of Defense - the Main Armored Directorate of the Ministry of Defense of the Russian Federation.
      Quote: Sergey 777
      But there is no money, which means that all the discussions are still empty.

      It's not even about money, but the fact that tanks, as weapons of the third world war, are absolutely unpromising, which is why the programs for their construction and supply in the troops will shrink, and this is a natural process, as was the case, for example, with cavalry after the Second World War.
  11. +11
    17 June 2021 12: 17
    Tank versus tank, what is the likelihood of such a scenario? It seems to me tending to zero. When was the last time a vigorous tank chopper took place there? In Iraq? And has there been silence since then? So why should it happen again? Especially on ETBD. Well, unless, of course, you do not arrange for a specialist to knead tank units for the sake of answering the question that has always tormented the patriots - whose tank is cooler))) How many of those Leopards do the Germans have efficient? And the British? Will one sea transport even be clogged or will it go half-empty? And in order for these two unfortunates to meet and shoot at each other, you still need to go through a bunch of everything: artillery strikes, MLRS and OTRK on bases, columns, places of concentration, aviation strikes, survive helicopters (given just their specialization in tanks) heh), don't get hit by ATGMs of infantry and mobile complexes, don't run into mines ... well, I don't know what else ... don't get stuck in a swamp, don't collapse with a bridge, don't break under the control of a woodpecker from a stock driver. Oh yeah, you still need to find a free flat spot for 1,5 - 2 km. (I can hardly find something living in a flat area). Well, in short, for tankers it will be an epic quest, the completion of which will leave their memory for centuries))) But seriously. Now measure the armor resistance of the forehead and the armor penetration of crowbars, when they are used only by tanks ...))) When 99% of what flies into the tank is ... suddenly! ATGM! And all modern ATGMs are trying to break into the tank through the roof))) It's like running around with pipiski when it's no longer worth it, but you still remember why it was needed. But the absence of a KAZ in general and a KAZ capable of hitting the upper hemisphere, this is a problem. And if the Americans are already actively solving it, then our strategists ... well, the generals' sons do not fight in tanks ...
  12. -3
    17 June 2021 12: 46
    Modern FCS and high firepower without proper armor protection will not provide the T-72B3M with domination in tank duels of the XXI century

    What other tank duels in the XXI century do you find for Russia during
    escalation scenario in the European theater of operations
    ?

    Yes, while tank regiments and battalions will leave the parks, and in the summer it is at least 45 minutes when raising the alarm, the whole war may already be over, tk. it will start with an exchange of nuclear strikes.
    What tanks are you going to send to the European theater of operations for duels, if everything there is contaminated with radioactive waste, and even epidemics will begin worse than the coronavirus.
    In general, I can advise the author - do not meddle with military professionals with advice, they know perfectly well without you what and how much should be supplied to the troops, based on the capabilities of the military-industrial complex, and how our weapons will be used if it comes to the Third World War.
  13. 0
    17 June 2021 17: 39
    Damantsev and in special missiles, and in tanks, and in ATGMs and ships, and I will not be surprised that in quantum physics! And maybe who knows, he himself served in the army?
    1. 0
      23 June 2021 22: 53
      I apologize for interfering. I respect this person for being
      he (Damantsev) creates a chic platform for discussion every day
      on topvar.
      here are peaceful engineers, and representatives of the military, and specialists released into circulation
      (who are retired, and who just drank themselves) show different facets of the topic under discussion.
      so: thanks to the author for bringing us all into correct (and sometimes not very) controversy.
  14. -1
    17 June 2021 17: 53
    After the "tank duel of the 70th century", you don't need to read it. What are the tank ducks? What else is it about? Even XNUMX years ago they were not envisioned. And now, with the development of missile weapons of all spectrums, from ATGMs, helicopters, other aviation, drones, to medium-range missiles, and strategic weapons in a conflict with NATO, I will not say anything about nuclear weapons at all. No one turned off Artoo either. As the main engine of the war. Any columns are covered and lose their combat effectiveness. There will be no battles like Prokhorovka.
    Damantsev ...
  15. -2
    17 June 2021 18: 20
    Ahahah how it burns at the ovs. But the person gives the correct data.
  16. -3
    17 June 2021 18: 56
    Tank fist impulse, I think Russia is necessary .. In the days of the USSR it was like this and Europe and the United States communicated very diplomatically ..
    A little that was wrong, and they began to warm up the engines with gas valves .. It helped a lot in negotiations, on the limitation of nuclear weapons and other lethal weapons for all countries of the planet .. soldier
    Now everything is more complicated, but you need to strive for this.
  17. +1
    17 June 2021 19: 16
    The massive nature of tank duels raises strong doubts. But even so, 4-5 medium tanks will definitely roll out one great one.
  18. 0
    17 June 2021 19: 38
    What the hell are bop duels? Eugene, do you generally follow the latest wars? When was the last time a tank fired at a tank?
    1. -1
      18 June 2021 00: 26
      And you do not call the clashes with the barmaley wars.
    2. +1
      18 June 2021 16: 18
      Quote: Pashhenko Nikolay
      What the hell are bop duels? Eugene, do you generally follow the latest wars? When was the last time a tank fired at a tank?

      In 2014-2015 in Ukraine.
  19. +3
    17 June 2021 22: 55
    At tank biathlon, not everything is shown with the T72B3M as the biathlon.
    The author eats that grain of truth.
  20. +1
    18 June 2021 00: 08
    A tank duel between the USSR and the United States could have taken place in West Berlin at Checkpoint Charlie in 1961. The fact that it would have ended with the beginning of World War III was very likely. But, there are tanks, and this is serious!
    1. -1
      18 June 2021 12: 54
      Quote: Maikl59
      A tank duel between the USSR and the United States could have taken place in West Berlin at Checkpoint Charlie in 1961. The fact that it would have ended with the beginning of World War III was very likely. But, there are tanks, and this is serious!

      They were serious as long as the European theater of operations was the main arena of war for us. And after we had intercontinental missiles with nuclear warheads, the Americans immediately realized that it wouldn’t come to tanks, so they rushed to Brezhnev to conclude the first START Treaty in 1972. The high-quality rearmament of our army and the Strategic Missile Forces, in the first place, made tanks a secondary weapon. And this is reality, no matter how someone would like to present the case in a different way.
  21. +3
    18 June 2021 00: 23
    Stunning logic of the hat-takers - if the army is not ready for tank duels, then there can be no such duels! Well, they were told so. And the author is also to blame / because he is to blame, without a clear counter-argument /, well, etc.
    Your Strategic Missile Forces are disposable missiles. Flew away - get the Kornets and Kalashnikovs. And when they write to you that "Sarmat can destroy an entire state" - the railwaymen laugh at you. But people and it hawala.
  22. 0
    18 June 2021 04: 14
    In this disappointing situation, when the program of deep modernization of the T-72B to the level of the T-72B2 / BM "Slingshot" ("Object 184M") was shelved and eventually frozen, the only objective solution can be only the intensification of large-scale production and accelerated delivery in combat units of the T-90M "Breakthrough-3" MBT, the equivalent resistance of the frontal projection of which varies in the range from 870 to 1100 mm, countering the armor penetration of the latest American and German BOPSs.

    Author, everything is OK with our tanks, at least with the number. New tanks are money. Big ones. At the same time, the Germans once had a "Tiger" = did not help. Let's make the Russians rich first. And there is no need to talk about "the enemy at the gates" and about tightening the belts - this has been said to us for 100 years (for ++ it has fallen). Russia is dangerous only if it is rich and united. And now there is neither wealth nor unity. No one in their right mind will attack us now, even with our "old" tanks. Unless we teach ourselves ... Take a look - there is one gloom in the country, if you can read real news (not a box).
    1. +1
      23 June 2021 22: 31
      All be honest. Plus.
      As Seryozha Dovlatov wrote:
      "There will be no war, but such a struggle for peace will begin,
      that there will be no stone left over. "
  23. +1
    18 June 2021 04: 48
    Quote: Torins
    Even in World War II, one cannot say that there were many duels, and now even more so

    Such opinions were encountered constantly. and then hostilities and goiter began - tanks have to shoot with tanks.
    that it was during the Arab Israeli wars, that during the US invasion of Iraq.
  24. +1
    18 June 2021 07: 15
    Modern FCS and high firepower without proper armor protection will not provide the T-72B3M with domination in tank duels of the XXI century

    1.Does it have a panoramic thermal imaging device?
    2.It probably has a 2A82 gun on it?
    3. Probably it can use modern BOPS? 900mm?
    4. Is there a barrel bend sensor?
    5. Is there a remote 12,7mm machine gun?


    The best option is to create (adapt) the T-90M turret to the T-72 ..... and its MTO. To get a full upgrade and a modern tank.
    1. 0
      18 June 2021 12: 56
      Quote: Zaurbek
      The best option is to create (adapt) the T-90M turret to the T-72 ..... and its MTO. To get a full upgrade and a modern tank.

      If this does not entail huge costs, then this is exactly what should be done, and not bother with Armata, but it is better to spend money on the development of new self-propelled guns with tactical nuclear projectiles.
      1. +1
        18 June 2021 14: 35
        Without Armata, it will not do ... the T90 trolley will not pull more weight ... but for 10 -15 years the issue will be solved.
      2. 0
        23 June 2021 22: 47
        ************************************************** ************************
        We still have in abundance of means of defense and attack.
        Stop flipping our solar system.
        We need to build a peaceful life, like the same Europe,
        without dispersing the economy along military lines.
        ***************************************************************************
        Will work peaceful economy - there will be money for defense.
        And not vice versa. While we take money out of the real sector for
        the well-fed life of our military machine,
        civilian industry will not appear. And specialists will flow there,
        Where are they will are in demand.
        ****************************************************************************
        IMHO.
        ****************************************************************************
        ps
        "Topvarisch", giving "marks" - we argue, then we give.
        We do not hesitate to express our thoughts openly.
        Like me, for example.

        This is not a rule, but a human norm.
        Opposition is the essence of a social quality.
        Thank you.
  25. fiv
    0
    18 June 2021 08: 31
    As you know, fortresses are best taken by donkeys laden with gold passing through unaccounted gates. It seems that this will be the main weapon in the next war.
    1. 0
      18 June 2021 11: 04
      Not always with Syria.
  26. -1
    18 June 2021 09: 12
    5 pieces 72B3 are better than one 90M. That's when the T-72 hulls in storage will run out ...
    1. +1
      18 June 2021 11: 05
      The Iraqis have checked ..... against Abrams. Especially at night.
      1. -1
        18 June 2021 11: 14
        They had B3, right?
        1. +1
          18 June 2021 11: 20
          No, but the Abrams of those years are no more ... and the LMS is different and the BOPS is different and the connection is different and the armor.
      2. -1
        18 June 2021 18: 53
        And there were definitely T-72BMs, with combined armor, with fifth contact, with ZBM-22 at least, and against them were the most massive US tanks at that time, the Abrams with a miserable MSA and M-60 with 105mm broads?

        And then I remember that when the Abrams were handed over to Iraq and ISIS began to burn them, it immediately became clear that the tanks were not of the same system, export ones. Then it turned out in Syria that the Leo-4 was also not of the same system, it was outdated and in general the Turks did not know how to fight.
        1. +1
          18 June 2021 21: 39
          We've already been with 120mm ....
  27. 0
    18 June 2021 11: 22
    Tank duel, at the cinema.
  28. 0
    18 June 2021 18: 57
    This nonsense breaks down well on an article in the Russian Top
    https://new.topru.org/pochemu-tank-t-60-nagolovu-prevosxodit-korolevskij-tigr/
  29. +1
    19 June 2021 00: 51
    ))) Come on. To ask directly "WHERE IS THE ARMATA, WHICH WAS SHOWN ON THE HOLY VICTORY DAY AS A SYMBOL OF THE RUSSIAN E-GE-GE-NOT-KALOSHI" - is considered a bad and not very patriotic tone. The hiss of alarmed patriots rises, they say, you don’t understand cho ... quietly ... otherwise the spies of theirs will know everything.

    Yes, calm down, they all know perfectly well, but more than ours. Everything is going according to plan ...
  30. 0
    19 June 2021 09: 17
    A stupid, illiterate article by a person flaunting like clever words and professional expressions!
    The tank, as an object of armed struggle, with its characteristics, is created by engineers and designers, on the instructions of the Ministry of Defense of the Russian Federation, not for duel fighting, but as a rule for breaking through the enemy's defense and developing success in the offensive! Tank units, as a rule, rarely act on their own! As a rule, they operate in cooperation with motorized rifle units and subunits, with the support of artillery, aviation and other weapons of destruction !!! The enemy and specifically his tanks, in the conditions of a fire battle, will not have time for a fire duel with our tanks! And in defense, in addition to fire support of tanks, other means of fire destruction, our troops, they will be covered and camouflaged in relation to the engineer, that is, in the trenches! And again, we must take into account the fire effect of our troops on the advancing enemy! They will have no time for duels either !!! Thus, all the author's conclusions are illiterate bullshit! Tanks are not created for duels, but to strengthen tactical and operational tactical actions of troops! And to write about it, you have to at least learn a little !!! Sorry if something is wrong!
    1. +1
      19 June 2021 11: 33
      Very verbiage, fashionable, new-Russian. Listen to you, the tank does not need to fight, it is busy. Why the hell, may I ask, does he even have armor? It was about the weak armor of the T-72, right? And how do you like the "duel" of the artillery of the defending enemy and the tank - not? be sure to bring abrams here? what about the various ptura? Here the T-72 with dynamic protection does not hold, and the T-90 of modern modifications holds successfully plus or minus.
  31. 0
    19 June 2021 22: 51
    Hmm, the author needs to change something in his "creativity"! Tired, however.
  32. +1
    21 June 2021 04: 57
    That is, the basis of combined arms combat is a tank duel? Something new, and the author is aware of how many new Challengers in reality, in my opinion, not a single one!
  33. -1
    21 June 2021 11: 28
    Quote: looker-on
    Author, everything is OK with our tanks, at least with the number. New tanks are money. Big ones. At the same time, the Germans once had a "Tiger" = did not help. Let's make the Russians rich first. And there is no need to talk about "the enemy at the gates" and about tightening the belts - this has been said to us for 100 years (for ++ it has fallen). Russia is dangerous only if it is rich and united. And now there is neither wealth nor unity. No one in their right mind will attack us now, even with our "old" tanks. Unless we teach ourselves ... Take a look - there is one gloom in the country, if you can read real news (not a box).

    Exactly!
  34. 0
    23 June 2021 14: 50
    I read it and smiled ... Is the author seriously thinking about tank duels between Russia and NATO in the 21st century? Not otherwise, he got stuck in 1941, because now it is simply impossible to imagine such a nuclear superpower on its territory fighting off the enemy with tanks ... Yeah, amused!
  35. +1
    23 June 2021 15: 31
    Damantsev

    Where will the breakthrough be (?)
    this is without DZ and without ceramics for the place of 110-mm fiberglass
    I got it already (!)
  36. 0
    24 June 2021 11: 13
    It would be nice for the author to know that there is a huge amount of obsolete equipment in the Air Force of the Armed Forces of the Russian Federation. Like the T-80 (except for BVM and U), as well as the T-72 family.
    There are two ways.)
    Throw everything out and buy a new one. The author promised to throw money.
    Or the second option.
    Everything that has to be upgraded to temporarily standards of the level (possibly with the subsequent one more modernization), with battalion intersperses with new T-90M.
    Within the meaning of the article, the author chose option 1. Hence the question! author when will you start transferring money?
    1. 0
      24 June 2021 16: 02
      Quote: Saboteur
      Hence the question! author when will you start transferring money?

      This is the cornerstone question that has always faced our country, no matter what it was - tsarist, Soviet or capitalist. Many local "theoreticians" do not bother with this question, although any armed man understands that you always need to ask two simple questions - what will it give us in principle, and what it will result in in terms of money. If they are answered correctly, then it is necessary to start a new development or modernization.
      1. 0
        26 June 2021 11: 54
        I fully support your opinion!
  37. 0
    26 June 2021 12: 46
    Armata is expensive, Pak-Fa is expensive, T-90 Breakthrough is expensive. Everything is expensive. And therefore we will buy 30-100 pieces, that's enough. Parades are more important. They look good there. And the T-72 can also fight. And the Su-27. Everything will be fine.