Chinese media: Russia will have a lighter "brother" of the fifth generation fighter Su-57

The Chinese media began to publish materials dedicated to the statements of Russian representatives about the start of development in the Russian Federation of a promising new generation aircraft. A few days ago, data was published that work had begun on the creation of a light single-engine Russian fighter with a take-off weight of up to 18 tons and a speed of up to 2 M. Earlier, it was about plans to create for the Russian Aerospace Forces LMFS - a light multipurpose front-line aircraft.

In the Chinese edition of Sohu, material was released, which says that so far nothing has been said in Russia about the "stealth" characteristics of the promising aircraft. At the same time, it is noted that this multi-role fighter, "probably will receive them, otherwise it will not be attributed to the aircraft of the fifth generation."

These statements once again show how much attention is paid abroad to the "stealth" characteristics of modern fighters. At the same time, such an "enthusiastic" attitude to stealth parameters looks rather strange, given that, for example, the Chinese J-20 was spotted by the Indian Air Force Su-30MKI fighter's radar - the "stealth" characteristics did not help him much.

In Sohu:

It can be stated that Russia will have a second new-generation aircraft if all parameters meet the necessary requirements. It will become a lighter "brother" of the Su-57, the maximum take-off weight of which, based on open sources, is about 35 tons. The newest Russian fighter will be twice as light, and, of course, it will solve other problems.

The Chinese edition points out that as a result, a single-engine Russian combat aircraft will not have the versatility that "the Su-57 is going to give." This refers, among other things, to the ability of the Su-57 to act as a command post for several strike drones "Hunter". In the PRC media, they believe that a light single-engine fighter in the Russian Aerospace Forces in the future can focus more on highly maneuverable air combat, including classic interception.

Comments

[prior]

Did I understand correctly that they want to put a pilot on the "Skat"?

Single engine, lightweight, unobtrusive ...

[Alexander 3]

The pilot on this plane will be invisible.

[AML]

Quote: prior

Did I understand correctly that they want to put a pilot on the "Skat"?

They want to make a door on the slope so that the pilot can come out at least sometimes :)

[Errr]

Quote: prior

Single engine, lightweight, unobtrusive ...

The design thought already sees a single-engine, halved in every sense, a variant of the Su-57.

[vargo]

Weird designer. If he at least took the SU-57 as a basis, then at least the air intakes would have been placed further under the wing, like that of a fellow, the wing would have done more and with a minimum of right angles by analogy. Again, two air intakes above the wing, I didn't understand what at all. And the engine can be hidden from above more compactly without rounded shapes. I feel the designer is just a fan of the F-35, so he sculpts. All over the world, for some reason, their 5th and 6th generation aircraft are molded by analogy with the F-35. Well, they don't have planes yet, but the mockups are entirely copy-paste from the F-35

[Alex777]

Again, two air intakes above the wing, I didn't understand what at all.

In the internet there is a photo with a model of an airplane on the table of Yuri Borisov
Only his nose is visible in the photo. The air intake is one at the bottom.

[vargo]

If you follow this photo, then on the plane (which is on the right), as I understand it, the air intake is really one and it is in the center of the plane. There has already been a similar performance. And on the render, there are two separate ones. Well, usually, if they really want to shine the look, then they shine specifically, and here only a piece)) I think there is a model of some other plane.

[Alex777]

"Render" is entertainment from the couch. Never mind.

[venik]

Quote: prior

Did I understand correctly that they want to put a pilot on the "Skat"?

========
Probably - wrong! Although this is not important!
"What grows will grow"!

[Dimonst]

"Omon Ra" (c) V. Pelevin ???)))

[An K-s]

Maybe all the same single-engine, and not single-engine, ugh, you can break your tongue while you pronounce it.

[pilot306]

The turbojet engine sounds, right?

[Oleg Aviator]

I hope that the fighter will be in metal, and not only on paper, this class is more in demand there. Another would be to take back the sales markets that we gave away, and it would be generally great.

[dauria]

I hope that the fighter will be in metal and not only on paper, there is more this class is in great demand

It is difficult to call a fighter what everyone really needs. A relatively cheap single-engine aircraft, capable of first of all effectively working against ground targets and at the same time being able to carry medium air-to-air missiles. Naturally with a low RCS. Rather, the old class of front-line fighter-bomber. In short, you need to copy the F-35 glider, but the filling will still change three times while it flies. This means - immediately count on the "plug and play" type of "upgrade" on the American common bus.
In a word, we slept and woke up.

[Alex777]

In a word, we slept and woke up.

If that's what you call the "product 30" effort, you know ...
And before the accomplishment of this feat (in every sense), there was no point in talking about a single-engine aircraft.

[dauria]

And before the accomplishment of this feat (in every sense),

Throw in rattling words. Did Pratt Whitney perform feats too, or did they just make a good product to sell? Saturn is a joint stock company. It offers goods, the country's budget pays for it. If you are a shareholder, you will receive a profit in the form of dividends or stock prices.

[Herman 4223]

The development started a bit late. If, of course, they started, I did not come across such news.

[Zaurbek]

After the Su35S and Su57, at least, there is a modern turbojet engine Al41 and Product 30 with UVT (the nozzle will probably have to be altered either to a flat one or just up and down, which) there is a modern avionics, there is a radar ....., some other ready-made Components. This brings the likelihood of the appearance of a light fighter closer.

[Orange bigg]

The maximum takeoff weight of the Su-57 is 35 tons. For the aircraft under development, it is almost half as much and is equal to 18 tons. That is, instead of two Product 30 engines, like the Su-57, one Product 30 engine will be installed on the light fighter under development and will receive the required thrust.

.MOSCOW, May 26 - RIA Novosti. The Sukhoi company is developing the first in Russia fifth-generation lightweight multi-role fighter with one engine, a source in the aircraft industry told RIA Novosti.
"When creating the aircraft, it is planned to widely use the groundwork accumulated within the framework of the creation of the Su-57, including the newest product 30 engine, radio-absorbing coatings, avionics, and a complex of weapons," he said.

Until now, all Russian-made fighters, including the most modern Su-57, have been equipped with two engines.
According to the source, the new aircraft should have a take-off weight of no more than 18 tons, its maximum speed will exceed Mach two, and the thrust-to-weight ratio (the ratio of engine mass and thrust) will be at least one. At the same time, it will differ in reduced radar signature, super-maneuverability and shortened take-off due to the deflected thrust vector of the engine.


"The layout of the fighter will have one under-fuselage multi-mode air intake, as it is implemented on many modern single-engine aircraft," the source added.

https://ria.ru/20210526/istrebitel-1733910712.html

[Zaurbek]

It is also necessary to take into account that since the creation of the Su57 airframe, there have been some progress in composites and the airframe will have a large% of them, which means it will be easier ..... which, as a result, can lead to a thrust-to-weight ratio comparable to the Su57.

[Orange bigg]

Quote: Zaurbek

It is also necessary to take into account that since the creation of the Su57 airframe, there have been some progress in composites and the airframe will have a large% of them, which means it will be easier ..... which, as a result, can lead to a thrust-to-weight ratio comparable to the Su57.

I do not think that this is so important given the experience of the same F-16 and F-35.

Probably, when evaluating the new development of Russian aircraft designers, it is reasonable to rely on some of the characteristics of the F-16. Such a comparison, although not entirely correct taking into account the difference between generations, will still allow us to understand whether the Russian project will be a significant step forward. If so, we should remember some of the parameters of the American car. For example, the weight of an empty F-16, depending on the modification, is approximately 9 tons. Normal takeoff weight, without outboard fuel tanks and with several air-to-air missiles for aerial combat, is about 13 tons. And the maximum take-off weight is approaching 22 tons, which is more than twice the empty weight. The afterburner power of the engine is, in both versions (installation of General Electric F110 and Pratt & Whitney F100 engines is possible) is about 13 tons.

With a normal load, the F-16 has a thrust-to-weight ratio of approximately unity. That is, the power of the engine is approximately equal to the mass of the aircraft, and if it is even simpler, it is able to climb vertically upward practically without acceleration and inertia, using only the thrust of its power plant. With a greater load, such a number becomes no longer possible, and with a significant loss of speed during climb, the fighter can already fall into a tailspin.


Also single-engine is another representative of the US Air Force, the F-35 fighter. But here it is very difficult to make a correct comparison, since this machine was clearly not developed for economy. Yes, during the development of the F-35, money was clearly not spared, it was supposed to become the main "war chariot" of the American armed forces in the first half of the twenty-first century, and the requirements laid down in the car already during the development of the concept were such that to speak of a clearly defined the niche of this fighter is, in principle, impossible. Let's just say that with a normal take-off weight of 24 kg (version of the F-350A), the afterburner power of its engine is approximately 35 kilograms.

According to information announced by the TASS agency, the new Russian light fighter is planned to be created based on the technologies and developments that the Sukhoi design bureau has for the Su-57 project. And this is not only composite materials, stealth coating or advanced avionics, but also the second stage engine for this aircraft, better known as "Product 30". According to the available information, the afterburner thrust of this engine will be 18 kg. And it is not surprising that the source voiced exactly this maximum weight of the new single-engine fighter.

https://newizv.ru/news/army/28-05-2021/deshevyy-no-sverhmanevrennyy-kb-suhoy-razrabatyvaet-legkoy-istrebitel

[Zaurbek]

I agree. But if you take a glider, then between F15 and F16 years 10 and the F16 glider is more progressive and more perfect. A trd is unified. We also see it with F22 and F35. The turbojet engine is finalized there, though.

[Herman 4223]

This fighter is being developed by the dry company. For some reason, the news passed the military review. But similar work is being done instantly. Plus, now there is already a moment-35. Yes, it is not so modern in terms of a glider, but otherwise it is quite a good light and economical car. And it may well fit for work with the Su-57. In short, the future will show which option will win.

[Orange bigg]

Let there be both the MiG-35, and eventually a lightweight fighter of the 5th generation.

[Herman 4223]

Yes, I do not mind, let it be.
The problem is that we have almost no fighter regiments left for the moment-29. To buy the mig-35 in normal quantities, you need to form many new regiments and squadrons. And when a new fighter appears, these new regiments will already seem to be with new aircraft. This is the main problem of the light fighter in our VKS.

[Wedmak]

I wonder how difficult it is to redesign the Su-57 airframe for one engine with a corresponding reduction in size? It is clear that it is not just to reduce, but to take ready-made components and assemblies.

[Kurare]

Sukhovtsy at one time proposed to make a whole aircraft complex - Su-54/55/56 - based on the backlog of the Su-27 in a single-engine version. Experience meant. I want to believe that I stayed.

[Zaurbek]

In fact, from the glider, only the cockpit will remain ... but a lot of units will move.

[Captain Pushkin]

Quote: Wedmak

Wedmak (Denis) Today, 08:58 New
0

I wonder how difficult it is to redesign the Su-57 airframe for one engine with a corresponding reduction in size?

This is a completely new aircraft. Even if the same aerodynamic design is used, and the engine, avionics and avionics are borrowed.

[Yves762]

It will become a lighter "brother" of the Su-57, ...

Yeah ...
Well, if all the same "goods" by any "banana", then let's say.
But if the same garbage as with the F-22 / F-35, then hr ..... badly.

"The F-35 remains, in every sense, nothing more than an expensive prototype launched into mass production," says government oversight project officer Dan Grazer, based on a recent US Department of Defense report.

https://rg.ru/2021/03/01/forbes-vvs-ssha-priznali-proval-proekta-f-35.html

[Zaurbek]

If they do not start doing, like the United States, three in one bottle ... VTOL aircraft, deck boat and ordinary ... then I see no problems

[Sahalinets]

In reality, our Air Force does not need a single-engine light fighter. It will be worse than the Su-57 in everything, especially in the range, and for our huge country this is of fundamental importance. Well, it will not cost much less. Well, exporting also does not go far in our time.

[Zaurbek]

There are two concepts in the world:
1. One type of Mig29, Rafal for all Air Forces.
2. Bundle Ф15 and Ф16 ... Ф18 -deck.

The Russian Federation is going its own way .... we have three heavy fighters with different thrusters and systems: Su30,34,35 and the fourth Su57 ...

[Light]

Plus, for amers F-22 and F-35, all 4 and 5 generations are mixed, who can afford it.
We will have the Su-30cm2 and Su-35 unified as much as possible, it will be the same as with the F-15eh - an excellent multifunctional aircraft, without the controversial stealth, but cheaper than the new generation. The Su-34 should occupy the niche of the front-line bomber Su-24 - it is especially convenient, as Syria has shown, to cheaply and angrily bomb the Papuans, Barmaley, Banderlog .. in theory, it will normally fit into a pair with the Su-57, plus export potential.
Specialized attack aircraft Su-25 are living out their days. In total, there remains the average MiG-35, which can be adapted to the 4th generation deck, such as the F-18. And the MiG-31 is a specialized air defense interceptor, especially useful where we do not have ground air defense, like the Arctic, which, it seems, will be replaced by the PAK DP.

[Herman 4223]

I think it will cost much cheaper. 40 percent most likely. As for the number of engines, then of course two would be better. But with a thrust half as much as a 30 product, and much cheaper to manufacture.

[d1975]

All this is fine, but is there a dvigun for him, or is it a product of 30? If so, then they simply have to make an excellent aircraft in these parameters.

[Zaurbek]

Even with Al41, it is already possible to cut ... there is enough traction, the resource is at the level of western trd

[Herman 4223]

In the mind, of course, this product should be 30. But now the development of a single engine for the Su-27,30,35 aircraft is still underway. Perhaps they use it.

[Marachuh]

In theory, on the basis of the Su57 should be done faster. But it will still take several years to fine-tune and test. Although, given that even the Americans themselves are disappointed in their "penguin", there are good chances to occupy a niche. The question is open in AFAR. Will they take it from the MiG35?

[Zaurbek]

I was so disappointed that they could not stop ... they rivet 15-20 pieces a month

[Marachuh]

And they resume the development of the 4+ generation aircraft. And 15-20 pieces per month, so this is for slaves! Serfs do not need normal letaki. The slave only has to pay!

[Zaurbek]

That's not the point .... a lot of countries are no longer pulling financially and the 4th generation .... a lot of US countries do not want to sell F35 .... because of stealth technologies. Why not pack the F35 "chips" into a conventional F16 case?

[Marachuh]

You contradict yourself. They do not pull F35, but are ready to pay for their chips in the F16 building. So the body is worth nothing. There is just a filling. And who doesn't pull F35? Israel, UAE, EU? They have money like a fool of candy wrappers. Only the most ineffective aircraft of our time, there are no fools at the price of gold for 1 kg of mass. And the Americans have already discussed the quality of F35.

[Zaurbek]

You are not wasting stealth cover and you are using the usual 4th generation ammo ... is this not a savings?

[Marachuh]

Consider the cost of the engine alone in the total cost of the aircraft. Then the cost of AFAR. Then the cost of the rest of the avionics. Your stealth cover is already a beggar for change. And who to save you did not answer! The Saudis, perhaps? Or the Israelites?

[Zaurbek]

Jews were sold F35 .... Arabs are being blocked for now ..... That's for the Arabs, maybe India. Thailand, Taiwan, Indonesia, the Philippines .... Stealth coverage makes a significant part of the cost. It is also necessary to maintain it and store the planes correctly.

[Sergej1972]

The EU does not have competencies in the field of the military-industrial complex. These issues are entirely within the competence of individual EU states.

[Eug]

The Chinese are not doing very well with the J-31, and they perfectly understand that if a successful light fighter is made in Russia, then all the Chinese screams about the backwardness of Russia in combat aviation ... well, in general, you yourself know.

[AAK]

At one time, the Sukhoi Design Bureau brought to the stage of the layout and, in part, working drawings, a series of single-engine Su-54 - Su-56, i.e. a real project of a "half" Su-57, if the design bureau wishes, as well as with the money and the will of the MO customer, can appear very quickly (the old "yeast" will be supplemented with the Su-57 and "Okhotnik" developments). However, if Su such an aircraft burns out, then the probability of the MiG disappearing as a brand is very high ... the 35th will not go into the mass production, the 29th KUB will fly 10-12 years, and then they will begin to write off 29- e old types ...

[Azimuth]

Quote: AAK

At one time, the Sukhoi Design Bureau brought to the stage of the layout and, in part, working drawings, a series of single-engine Su-54 - Su-56, i.e. a real project of a "half" Su-57, if the design bureau wishes, as well as with the money and the will of the MO customer, can appear very quickly (the old "yeast" will be supplemented with the Su-57 and "Okhotnik" developments). However, if Su such an aircraft burns out, then the probability of the MiG disappearing as a brand is very high ... the 35th will not go into the mass production, the 29th KUB will fly 10-12 years, and then they will begin to write off 29- e old types ...

Moreover, the version of single-engine Dryers had one big advantage in the marine version. With the wings folded, the single-engine dryer formed a compact square, that is, the aircraft in this case takes up much less space. Accordingly, a larger number of aircraft can be accommodated even on a light aircraft carrier like our aircraft carrier Kuznetsov.

[Pavel57]

Quote: Elena Zakharova

blue duct tape

Taking into account import substitution.

[Vladimir Vlasov]

Just got it? Why are our aircraft designers, with very, very smart brains, 20 years late in technology? The enemy has been producing such an F-35 aircraft for a very long time. More than 3500 of them have already been made! And their model F-35B fighter with a short takeoff and vertical landing, in general, surprises with its performance characteristics. The engine for the F-35B allows a fully armed F-35A with full fuel tanks to maneuver at 9 g. Are our "developers" capable of at least catching up with the level of enemy technologies? The enemy has been improving these technologies for 20 years. And how many years will our people create such equipment? Are they capable? What have you been thinking about for 20 years? And did you even think?