FSB reveals the names of Estonian punishers who destroyed villages in the Pskov region during the war

The Federal Security Service (FSB) for the first time revealed the names of the Estonian punishers who destroyed villages and villages in the Pskov region during the Great Patriotic War. The declassified documents list by name dozens of nationalists from Estonia, who dealt with the civilian population of the territory occupied by the German fascists.

About it сообщает news agency RIA News.

Archival documents contain dire details of the atrocities of these Nazi henchmen, who operated as part of the 37th guard battalion on the territory of the Pskov region. The tasks of this punitive unit, formed from Estonian nationalists, included the fight against partisans and reprisals against the civilian population.

As stated in the documents provided by the FSB Directorate for the Pskov region, one of the most resonant crimes of the 37th battalion was the destruction of the village of Laneva Gora along with the inhabitants, which was committed in 1943. Then the Estonian Nazis shot and burned 55 villagers, of whom 32 were children. At the same time, the punishers did not spare even three infants.

When the Pskov region was liberated from the Nazi invaders, a specially created commission investigated the crimes of the Nazis and their henchmen. She found out that out of 406 Pskov villages, the punishers wiped out 325 from the face of the Earth.

Comments

[Machito]

The fascists are still marching in a parade through the squares of Euro-fascist Estonia.

[Terenin]

that out of 406 Pskov villages the punishers wiped out 325 from the face of the Earth.

Apart from the desire to destroy, there is nothing like their current minions.

[Anachoret]

Cancel the decisions of Soviet Russia on the recognition of the sovereignty of Soviet Estonia and other similar acts.
And there, only the deed of sale for the land of the times of Peter the Great will remain in the relationship, and then it is polite to ask all citizens of foreign states and the EU to leave these lands))

[Egoza]

Quote: Anchorite

And there, only the deed of sale for the land of the times of Peter the Great will remain in the relationship, and then it is polite to ask all citizens of foreign states and the EU to leave these lands))

And what about the rent of land? With interest? In modern times, only this is understood. So they won't rock the boat! )))

[Starover_Z]

The Federal Security Service (FSB) for the first time revealed the names of Estonian punishers who destroyed villages and villages in the Pskov region during the Great Patriotic War.

And also to name the living relatives of these punishers and prohibit them from entering Russia!

[Olgovich]

Quote: Starover_Z

And also name living relatives

something else is interesting: how punishers from this list suffered
PUNISHMENT?

Why were these surnames classified 77 years old, and not immediately named, in 44-45 years?

[Starover_Z]

Quote: Olgovich

Why were these surnames classified for 77 years, and not named immediately, in 44-45?

So they were not found then, immediately after the war. The division of Europe into 2 camps forced to create a buffer zone for the USSR from the former allies, and the sound of then uncaught punishers would complicate the relationship. I think so.
Well, now, when all the masks have been dropped, it's time to get hold of the trump card!

[Lionnvrsk]

Quote: Starover_Z

Well, now, when all the masks have been dropped, it's time to get hold of the trump card!

No wonder Putin said several times that, they say, we still have a lot of documents, when Poland went to shit after declassifying the archives on Polish tricks of the Second World War.

[Olgovich]

Quote: Starover_Z

So they then, not found immediately after the war... The division of Europe into 2 camps forced to create a buffer zone for the USSR from the former allies, and the sound of then uncaught punishers would complicate the relationship. I think so.

why not announced, when did you find it?
How could voicing the names of the punishers spoil anything?

Quote: Starover_Z

Well, now, when all the masks have been dropped, it's time to get hold of the trump card!

yes, it's late, the train has long since left ...

[Paragraph Epitafievich Y.]

Quote: Olgovich

another thing is interesting: how many punishers from this list suffered
PUNISHMENT?

All those involved who were identified and found.

[Olgovich]

Quote: Paragraph Epitafievich Y.

All those involved who were identified and found.

if they were punished, they are ALREADY not secret people.

If they were secret until now, then they were not punished.

[Vladimir Mashkov]

Quote: Olgovich

Why were these surnames classified for 77 years, and not named immediately, in 44-45?

Much has been written about this. This was done for the sake of friendship between the peoples of the Warsaw Pact countries and the USSR. That is why the collaborationism of Bulgarians, Romanians, Hungarians, Czechs, the bloody crimes of the Home Army, Ukrainian Bandera, Lithuanian, Latvian and Estonian collaborators were not fully disclosed.

[Olgovich]

Quote: Vladimir Mashkov

Much has been written about this. This was done for the sake of friendship between the peoples of the Warsaw Pact countries and the USSR. That is why the collaborationism of Bulgarians, Romanians, Hungarians, Czechs, the bloody crimes of the Home Army, Ukrainian Bandera, Lithuanian, Latvian and Estonian collaborators were not fully disclosed.

just about: and now we are reaping the fruits when these then hushed up bandits themselves accuse us.

It's late today to wave your fists (although you still need to)

[bk316]

This was done for the sake of friendship between the peoples of the Warsaw Pact countries and the USSR.

What is the Warsaw Pact?
These are Estonians, Latvians, and Westerners are different ...
It's not too late to publish EVERYTHING!

[Shuttle]

Quote: Olgovich

Why were these surnames classified 77 years old, and not immediately named, in 44-45 years?

Including because these nonhumans also had innocent relatives who could suffer in an illusory way from popular anger. In addition, the USSR had an absolutely correct doctrine - the names of such criminals had to disappear into oblivion so that no one had the opportunity to appeal to their memory. After all, the USSR did not plan its collapse. If the USSR had not ended, then there would have been no problem with the fascists in Estonia now. Hardly anyone there would want to be their follower.

[Igoresha]

Why were these surnames classified for 77 years, and not named immediately, in 44-45?

In the TV series of the ardent anti-Soviet Pravdyuk, this issue was raised - the Estonian SS men received 7 years in camps for such a thing and at home. Stalin's "justice" in all its glory.

[Vladimir Mashkov]

Quote: Anchorite

Cancel the decisions of Soviet Russia on the recognition of the sovereignty of Soviet Estonia and other similar acts.
And there, only the deed of sale for the land of the times of Peter the Great will remain in the relationship, and then it is polite to ask all citizens of foreign states and the EU to leave these lands))

I really hope the time will come ... By the way, this is another reason why today's Estonians hate Russia so much.

[CYM]

This is not only Estonia. The Czech Republic generally ended the Second World War in the status of an autonomous territory of the German Reich - a protectorate of Bohemia and Moravia. With what fright the Czech Republic again became an independent state, and did not remain a part of the GDR / FRG during the division, is an interesting question. With the territories in Eastern Europe, following the results of the Second World War, a lot of interesting things happened http://ru-an.info/n/70483/.
Perhaps it is really high time for Russia, as the legal successor of the USSR, to denounce the recognition of independence and the borders of "friendly" neighbors. It can be a lot of fun.

[viktor.]

Together with their cities.

[alex neym_2]

Then why were they silent until now ??? They're playing blind man's buff, or something ... they've played out, now Russia is to blame for everything ... And their brazen muzzle would go into the cesspool and with shit all over the world - otherwise they are all "white and fluffy" ... there are no further words ( words that is, but ... but ... but ...)

[Invoce]

Quote: Bearded

The fascists are still marching in a parade through the squares of Euro-fascist Estonia.

We are not worried about the fact that the Nazis are marching in "Europe" (when they die or fate punishes them), but the fact that tolerant Europe does not see, does not want to see Nazism at home, the youth perceives this as a common phenomenon, the Nazis become "heroes "not only in the Baltics, but also in Ukraine, in Belarus they are trying to get out from under the broom, Poland, Germany, Spain ...
And it's all sponsored by Sores, Rothschilds and Rockefellers ...

[Lannan Shi]

Quote: Invoce

Natsiks are becoming "heroes" not only in the Baltics, but also in Ukraine, in Belarus they are trying to get out from under a broom, Poland, Germany, Spain ...
And it's all sponsored by Sores, Rothschilds and Rockefellers ...

Akhmat Kadyrov -: "kill Russians as much as you can." The bottom line? There are no Russians in Chechnya, and Kadyrov is a Hero of Russia. Or again - you don't understand, is this different?

[d1975]

This is very different, you write it as a provocateur. Yes, this is the worst pain. But the way to stop the war worked. Or would you command the destruction from the sofa? And not even they are to blame, but the politicians who gave power and arranged the collapse of the country.

[Alex Justice]

But the way to stop the war worked. Or would you command destruction from the couch?

And what did they give the Hero for? It was impossible to get by with a jubilee medal for his feat.

[Alexander 3]

Learn Chechen, behave as is required by Islam and live in peace.

[Starover_Z]

Quote: Alexander 3

Learn Chechen, behave as is required by Islam and live in peace.

And all people from the Caucasus in Russia are baptized as believers and observe the biblical commandments ?!

[Clear]

What "courageous and brave warriors" in the photo are very pleased with themselves ... the child won. M r and z and!

[barclay]

Not surprising. Hitler turned off his conscience with him.

[Artem76]

I was also very impressed by the photo, right to the core, everything shook me inside .... It's scary to even think about it, and those ..... also grin, the underdit is stoned. Find their relatives and sterilize everyone !!!

[IL-18]

Quote: Bearded

and are marching now

It is not enough to declassify the names of these reptiles, it is also necessary to convey to all Estonia. And to the European Parliament with the names of the Bandera, forest brothers and others, with the corresponding resolution tied to the contributions from the Russian Federation.

[loha]

"shot and burned 55 village inhabitants"
what word did the Inhabitants choose, and not humans at all ...

[vkl.47]

This refers to all living things (pets and livestock) and not just people. do not twist.

[fruc]

This refers to all living things (pets and livestock)

What I have, I will enter. Please do not juggle.

[d1975]

I agree with you if the mausoleum is draped, if the true name of the holiday cannot be said, the Victory Day of the Soviet people in the Great Patriotic War. Either the victims of the exam, or the burbot liberal. A normal person will not say so - the inhabitants, almost in the animal world, forgive the comparison.

[wow]

There will be no more prisoners, wounded and others "they called me, I didn't want". Only death !

[Blacksmith 55]

But why was this not done much earlier, as soon as the names were recognized?
What's the secret?
The country should have known the names of these "heroes".
Now most of them have already passed away.
What was the policy and ideology of the party pursuing by hiding the names of the criminals?

[Egoza]

Quote: Blacksmith 55

What was the policy and ideology of the party pursuing by hiding the names of the criminals?

1. They did not want lynching, and it was necessary to watch. Indeed, in every, EVERY republic, there were those who bravely fought in the Red Army, but there were also those who betrayed their own.
2. "The unity and friendship of peoples in the USSR - that's why we won" - it was impossible to debunk this myth.

[tihonmarine]

Quote: Egoza

They did not want lynching, and it was necessary to watch. Indeed, in every, EVERY republic, there were those who bravely fought in the Red Army, but there were also those who betrayed their own.

When I studied with my friend in the 10th grade of the Smolensk region. regional center Dukhovshchina, then we lived in an apartment where the owner served in the Red Army as a political instructor, and a peasant lived next door, who was a policeman under the Germans. Since childhood, they lived side by side, went to school, but the war separated them on different sides. After the war, they again lived side by side, went to the bathhouse together, but after the bath, when they were drunk, a scuffle began and it came to knives. And in many villages and cities it was. And if at that time all the "adventures" of the accomplices had been published, the case would not have ended with a massacre and kitchen knives, lynching would have begun, and then it would have been worse.

[Egoza]

Quote: tihonmarine

And if at that time all the "adventures" of the accomplices had been published, then the matter would not end with a massacre and kitchen knives,

You are absolutely right. That is why the names of those who wrote denunciations "in the damned Stalinist time" are not published.

[Blacksmith 55]

And those who processed and checked these denunciations, he knew that in most cases they were far-fetched.
Their names were also not called, so as not to excite society.
Black should be called black, white white.
It is clear, a thing of the past, why stir up?

[Egoza]

Quote: Blacksmith 55

And those who processed and checked these denunciations, he knew that in most cases they were far-fetched.

Oh really? Here comes the anonymous letter. The checking Chekist asked a scientist, a respected person, a candidate of sciences for advice on this technical issue, and he confirmed that yes, this colleague was a pest. How did the Chekist know that it was this consultant who set up the comrade in order to become the head of the laboratory himself? And not all anonymous letters were far-fetched. So here you are wrong.

[Avior]

How did the Chekist know that it was this consultant who set up the comrade in order to become the head of the laboratory himself?

And he should have known or suspected, at least.
Not to mention the fact that it is against not only the rules of the investigation, but also just common sense to involve an expert who is intimately familiar with the suspect.

[Artem76]

The question still remains. Internationalism - internationalism, and the criminals had to be voiced, no matter what nationality, the Russian traitors were also tried, it was necessary to expose all of these "smaller brothers" to the light, so that everyone else would not be familiar.

[spirit]

Because we have double standards, like everyone else. And with modern national parties in Europe, we are on very good terms) For example, dad Lupine, whose daughter took the reins of the party after him, spoke rather flatteringly about the occupation forces that controlled France during the war, and he called the gas chambers: just a detail of the war! We now support such allies (parties), they are useful (Nazis but Our Nazis) .In Estonia, we have no such allies and relations are ruined,

therefore, you can safely declassify materials

[Paragraph Epitafievich Y.]

Quote: Blacksmith 55

But why was this not done much earlier, as soon as the names were recognized?
What's the secret?
The country should have known the names of these "heroes".
Now most of them have already passed away.

You are somewhat mistaken - six were found and tried in 1973. Five scoundrels were given a wall. One - ten. This, by the way, managed to serve in the Soviet army in 46-49.
So it goes. The article is scanty, it was possible in more detail. With names and facts.

[d1975]

Remember how Mykyt happily released everyone from the stages. That's where everything goes.

[Alex Justice]

The country should have known the names of these "heroes".
Now most of them have already passed away.

Many also got benefits, like war heroes.

[Clear]

Quote: yo-mine

There will be no more prisoners, wounded and others "they called me, I didn't want". Only death !

Right. We must not forget this! Never!!!

[vladimirvn]

We need to boldly open military archives and publish the names of fascist accomplices from Ukraine, Poland, and the Baltic states!

[tihonmarine]

Quote: vladimirvn

We need to boldly open military archives and publish the names of fascist accomplices from Ukraine, Poland, and the Baltic states!

This should have been done 30 years ago, but we were all shouting about "friendship of peoples."

[andreykolesov123]

Quote: tihonmarine

Quote: vladimirvn

We need to boldly open military archives and publish the names of fascist accomplices from Ukraine, Poland, and the Baltic states!

This should have been done 30 years ago, but we were all shouting about "friendship of peoples."

this had to be done immediately after the war. 30 years ago, at best, half of these punishers remained, and by today all of them have already died in their beds as respected people.

[tihonmarine]

Quote: andreykolesov123

this had to be done immediately after the war.

Well, can you imagine what kind of massacre would begin throughout the Union.

[Andrei Nikolaevich]

That's for sure! Previously, you had to do it. They woke up. Now, the Balts do not care about it and forget. Our Foreign Ministry and the FSB are slowing down.

[d1975]

How not to slow down here, business and money do not smell. Politics ...

[Paragraph Epitafievich Y.]

Quote: tihonmarine

It should have been done 30 years ago

The court was in 1972-1973.
There are fifteen hundred pages of the file - interrogation protocols, court materials. The ordinariness with which the details of the shootings are presented is really numb.
Shot a child, threw a grenade into a full house ...
Horror.

[Lech from Android.]

If you dig deeper into the archives, you will see the crimes of the Estonian Nazis, which are not much different from the crimes committed by Himmler's Einsatzkommando ...
One to one ... mass executions, non-human interrogations, bullying ... in general, a complete set of sadistic addictions of those who are now considered heroes in Estonia.
During Soviet times, the emphasis on the nationality of criminals was hidden by the policy of internationalism ... but in vain.
The Murlo of the Estonian Nazis once again crawled out and under certain circumstances they will again begin executions of the Russian-speaking population ... Just as it was with the Jews in 1941 ... the pictures of their crimes are amazing.

[Egoza]

Quote: vladimirvn

publish the names of fascist accomplices from Ukraine, Poland, the Baltic states!

That's for sure. Otherwise, "some" are already eager to receive compensation for the "occupation by Soviet troops and the USSR as a whole."

[Souchastnik]

and publish the names of fascist accomplices

There is a modest assumption that if the names of all the accomplices of fascism are published, then very famous names may suddenly emerge. For example - the fighters against the Stalinist "bloody regime". Not everyone will like it.

[cniza]

She found out that out of 406 Pskov villages, punitive forces wiped out 325 from the face of the Earth.

And what are the conclusions?

[vladimirvn]

Quote: cniza

She found out that out of 406 Pskov villages, punitive forces wiped out 325 from the face of the Earth.

And what are the conclusions?

I agree. Where are the claims and claims for compensation? Where are the requirements for repentance at the national level? Our "ideologists" got sick, they don't want to work. Losing face!

[Clear]

Quote: vladimirvn

Our "ideologists" got sick, they don't want to work. Losing face!

Multi-vector, some "at the top", interferes.

[Pete mitchell]

Quote: Clear

Multi-vector, some "at the top", interferes.

Madam, right in a dozen

[cniza]

Quote: vladimirvn

Where are the claims and claims for compensation? Where are the requirements for repentance at the national level? Our "ideologists" got sick, they don't want to work. Losing face!

Having such trump cards in our hands, we do nothing ...

[andrew42]

What are these compensations? Here you have to act like the Israelites (the case when it is not a sin to learn) - without a statute of limitations. Capture, export, trial, execution. Preferably at the same place where the crimes were committed. But our authorities are "humane", "civilized", at our own expense, at the expense of our grandfathers and grandmothers, who survived and died.

[magdama]

All this should have been published 30 years ago. Now it is irrelevant, like Russian fairy tales. They have no effect. The road is a spoon for dinner.

[Egoza]

Quote: magdama

All this should have been published 30 years ago. Now it is irrelevant, like Russian fairy tales. They have no effect. The road is a spoon for dinner.

You are wrong! And Russian fairy tales are relevant, and it's never too late to tell the truth. Moreover, these documents can be used to gag especially greyhounds.

[Avior]

The Federal Security Service (FSB) for the first time revealed the names of Estonian punishers who destroyed villages and villages in the Pskov region during the Great Patriotic War.

unclear. open courts were back in the 70s - and they were also classified, or what?

On October 22, 1943, partisans from a detachment under the command of Ivan Vorobyov ambushed a convoy of the 37th police battalion of Estonian SS men on the edge of the village. [5] A car was blown up, about 11 fascists were killed. A couple of hours later, from the village of Zaitsevo, where the Nazis were stationed, the punishers of the 1st and 3rd platoons of the 37th police battalion came to Laneva Gora. They shot and burned on the spot, in their homes, 65 people, of which more than half were children. According to the archival information, the list of the dead included "3 infants, 29 children under the age of 14," not counting women [6] [7] [8] [9].

In 1973, a show trial took place in the Palace of Culture of Builders of Pskov, when the regional court sentenced the punishers from the 37th police battalion. [10] The court completed its work on June 13, 1973.

Unfortunately, the guerrilla war is practically accompanied by the death of civilians: (((

[Zaurbek]

They did it in a planned and meticulous way.

[Avior]

exactly. As part of the fight against partisans.
The guerrillas often used villages as bases

[Zaurbek]

You can burn the village and drive out the inhabitants ... ... this is what the Russian Empire did in the Caucasus ... or you can burn them together with the inhabitants - these are the methods of the Germans and their friends at that time

[Avior]

Anything happened: ((

May 12, 1994 'Resolution of the Parliament of the Kabardino-Balkarian Republic No. 21-P-P (on the appeal to the State Duma with the issue of recognizing the genocide of the Circassians) [32]
April 29, 1996 Address of the President of the Republic of Adygea Aslan Alievich Dzharimov to the State Duma of the Federal Assembly of the Russian Federation with the issue of recognizing the genocide of the Circassians [33].

Burning a village, crops, livestock and driving out residents is like killing.
But there were also executions of auls from guns, for example.

[Zaurbek]

Anything was .... But the Nazis specifically planned the destruction of the population.

[Avior]

In the Caucasus, mass expulsions were also planned at a high level.
The Nazis planned the destruction of the villages as a means of fighting the partisans.

[Andrey Krasnoyarsky]

A traditional excuse, invented by the Germans themselves and their accomplices during the war. Like, we kill only partisans and their assistants, but we don't touch ordinary people. But only this fairy tale does not fit the fact that many villages with their inhabitants were destroyed even where there were no partisans in sight. And what kind of help could one-month-old babies provide to the partisans?

[Avior]

... Like, we kill only partisans and their assistants

If they said that, then they lied
Other groups of people were killed
But due to the fact that the partisans used the villages as bases, the villages were burned more often. At the same time, people were not always completely killed.
Usually when they were killed as revenge directly at the moment of the attack of the partisans somewhere in the village or near, like Khatyn, for example. People were accused of not reporting the partisans.
A similar situation was in Europe - Lidice or Oradour in France died just like that.

[lelik613]

"Anything happened: (("
How is it in ru-u-u-sski? Slave traders, people stealers, robbers ... In a word, human rights activists. To understand and to forgive. Rehabilitate and give money.

[tihonmarine]

Quote: Avior

exactly. As part of the fight against partisans.
The guerrillas often used villages as bases

If Soviet soldiers had done this in the fight against the Werewolf, then in the Kaliningrad region there would have been no one to be resettled in Germany in 1949.

[Avior]

The scale is incomparable.

[Clear]

Quote: Avior

The Federal Security Service (FSB) for the first time revealed the names of Estonian punishers who destroyed villages and villages in the Pskov region during the Great Patriotic War.

unclear. open courts were back in the 70s - and they were also classified, or what?

On October 22, 1943, partisans from a detachment under the command of Ivan Vorobyov ambushed a convoy of the 37th police battalion of Estonian SS men on the edge of the village. [5] A car was blown up, about 11 fascists were killed. A couple of hours later, from the village of Zaitsevo, where the Nazis were stationed, the punishers of the 1st and 3rd platoons of the 37th police battalion came to Laneva Gora. They shot and burned on the spot, in their homes, 65 people, of which more than half were children. According to the archival information, the list of the dead included "3 infants, 29 children under the age of 14," not counting women [6] [7] [8] [9].

In 1973, a show trial took place in the Palace of Culture of Builders of Pskov, when the regional court sentenced the punishers from the 37th police battalion. [10] The court completed its work on June 13, 1973.

Unfortunately, the guerrilla war is practically accompanied by the death of civilians: (((

"Doom" is a multifaceted concept. In this case, we are talking about premeditated murder, especially innocent citizens and children.

[Avior]

Of course, this is a crime.
But, on the other hand, this is a predictable reaction to partisan actions involving civilians. In Europe it was also - Lidice, Oradour, in Greece, Italy, Poland - practically all over Europe.
And not only. Vietnam or Afghanistan, the same problems.
I have been writing for a long time that there should be an objective serious work of historians to assess the effectiveness of the accepted forms of partisan actions from the point of view of the ratio of losses between the Germans and our people.

[Pete mitchell]

Quote: Avior

this is a predictable reaction to partisan actions involving the civilian population .... I have been writing for a long time that there should be an objective serious work of historians to assess the effectiveness of the accepted forms of partisan actions with ...

In principle, I understand the motives, but I disagree with you: it is this argument that is used by the same Balts when they drag former partisans and saboteurs to the courts. This argument is hammered into fragile heads, only in different formulations - they say, because of the Reds, the locals died .. Distortion of wording is a terrible weapon in the information field. You can't do this - we won and everything was done for this, no such discussions.

[Avior]

it is this argument that is used by the same Balts when they drag former partisans and saboteurs to the courts.

What is the argument?
We are talking about the ratio of the damage inflicted on the Germans and the associated level of their own losses in the accepted forms of partisan warfare.
There were also other proposals on the forms of partisan warfare, read Starinov, for example.

[Pete mitchell]

Quote: Avior

We are talking about the ratio of the damage inflicted to the Germans and the associated losses of their own in the accepted forms of partisan warfare.

Quote: Pete Mitchell

Distortion of wording is a terrible weapon in the information field

... so even the idea of ​​such open-air discussions must be rejected.

Quote: Pete Mitchell

won and everything was done for this, no such discussions.

Specialists will learn from any situation - the work is

[Avior]

Not quite clear.
What kind of discussions?
It's about our losses.

[ee2100]

This is a very serious topic. And it cannot be solved in the comments.
There were crimes against the civilian population, of course, but they were a consequence. And so it was everywhere.
This is called find 2 differences between a partisan and a forest brother.
Declassified lists are published lists.
After the Second World War, the competent authorities of the USSR dealt with each separately who collaborated with the Germans, and the punishment was determined on the basis of flight analysis.
Punishers were searched for until the 80s. There were also show trials.
Now it is customary to single out punishers from the former republics of the USSR, forgetting about their own.
At that distant time, there was no such division for law enforcement agencies. All were citizens of the USSR and the attitude was more or less even.

[Pete mitchell]

Quote: Avior

this is a predictable reaction to partisan actions involving the civilian population .... I have been writing for a long time that there should be an objective serious work of historians to assess the effectiveness of the accepted forms of partisan actions with ...

I wanted to say that in my opinion it is unacceptable to question the actions of the same partisans and it is clear that there was a response. In the end, they completed the task.
And it is this very argument, they say, because of the actions of the Reds, local people died is used by those who, in the same Baltic states, are trying to judge the partisans.
There is a risk that your probably healthy desire to assess the effectiveness of the adopted forms of partisan actions will give a reason to drive a wave for the generation of Winners. In my opinion, this is a discussion for specialists, but not for open air. Something like this, have a nice day

[Avior]

... And it is this argument, they say, because of the actions of the Reds, the locals were killed by those who, in the same Baltic states, are trying to judge the partisans.

If you are talking about the Kononov case, then there were completely different arguments.

[Clear]

Quote: Avior

There were also other proposals on the forms of partisan warfare, read Starinov, for example.

Don't you understand that partisan struggle is a broad concept, and partisan sabotage activity, as Starinov wrote about, is only an integral part of this struggle.
Of course, the better trained people, the more effective the fight.

Quote: Avior

I have been writing for a long time that there should be an objective serious work of historians to assess the effectiveness of the accepted forms of partisan actions from the point of view of the ratio of losses between the Germans and our people.

Perhaps, from the point of view of the ratio of losses, historians recognize it as ineffective, so what? Because of this, they will offer the population to accept the invaders humbly, as an objective reality according to the "sacred laws of war"?
As in the Patriotic War of 1812, Napoleon's envoy, General Larison, complained to Kutuzov about "... barbarians of the partisan-Russian peasants who are not fighting according to the rules ..."
There is no need to generalize the murderers of civilians and soldiers who are at war, even with partisans.

PS Captured soldiers should have a chance to return home, but assassins shouldn't.

[Avior]

There were other opportunities and proposals for the forms of organized partisan warfare, one can read about this, for example, in Starinov's memoirs, not related to mass repressions against the civilian population, more effective, in his opinion, and less massive.

[Artem76]

You are confusing concepts a little. The partisan is the defender of the MOTHERLAND! When the ENEMY came to him, to his house, to his native land !!!! And in your opinion, the killing of civilians, by the ENEMY on the territory they have seized, is just a predictable reaction in the fight against partisans? Therefore, according to your logic, after the capture of Berlin, it was simply necessary to burn the entire population of Germany? It would be all just a reaction to the fact that they attacked us first !?

[Avior]

... Therefore, according to your logic, after the capture of Berlin, it was simply necessary to burn the entire population of Germany?

I didn't have such logic, you wrote it on your own

[Artem76]

I am not accusing you of anything ... But you wrote the phrase thoughtlessly. A "predictable response" is a causal relationship. And it turned out in your opinion that if it were not for the partisans, the fascists would not have killed our citizens. But this is fundamentally wrong! Their policy for the destruction of our (and not only) peoples had already been spelled out and worked out on the territory of Europe even before the attack on the USSR. I just wanted to tell you about this.

[Avior]

A "predictable response" is a causal relationship.

it is, so what surprises you? Similar can be traced in other cases, in Europe, for example. It is not for nothing that the Hague Convention divides the warring parties (combatants) and the civilian population and prohibits their mixing - this causal relationship was obvious to the creators of the Convention at the beginning of the 20th century. By the way, the Nazis do not become less criminal from this crime.

And it turned out in your opinion that if it were not for the partisans, the fascists would not have killed our citizens.

and in this place you are substituting concepts. I didn't write that. It's about scale. The connection of some of the deaths of our people with the accepted forms of partisan warfare is obvious.
And in order to speak more specifically about the scale, this requires serious research by professional historians. And they are not, no one wants to take up this topic.

But this is fundamentally wrong!

of course, wrong, only this is your statement, not mine. I didn't write that.

[Andrei Nikolaevich]

Why were they silent before? What were you afraid of?

[Zaurbek]

In these cases, Croats, Hungarians also distinguished themselves .. Romanians

[newcomer]

Here, it is easier to count who did not distinguish themselves_ in my opinion there are none, at least in Europe. I recall the words of Hitler, said to the leaders of Europe, at the end of the film "White Tiger": "What do you blame me for, I did what all Europe dreamed of." Hood. fiction, of course, but in fact true.

[Zaurbek]

Some kind of collective thoughts wandered around Europe.

[Doccor18]

The Federal Security Service (FSB) for the first time revealed the names of the Estonian punishers who destroyed villages and villages in the Pskov region during the Great Patriotic War. The declassified documents list by name dozens of nationalists from Estonia, who dealt with the civilian population of the territory occupied by the German fascists.

Why only now? Unclear...
They probably haven’t survived anymore ...
And what was the secrecy of these documents? War crimes and criminals should be identified and punished as quickly as possible, in my opinion ...

[newcomer]

Hmm, but we, that is, the power_ in the person of Khrushchev, pardoned these nits, paid pensions. His mother, how paradoxical the world is. And now our volunteers from the Ministry of Defense are digging out entire villages of those who died at the hands of these nits, which are now marching along the geyrops like mummers and roosters.

[Avior]

who told you that you had mercy? the court, for example, on the fact of the destruction of the village of Laneva Gora was in 1973

Defendants: Ann Oodla, Ernst Pähn, Johannes Aluoja and August Kukk were sentenced to death; Kangur Bernhard ... was sentenced to 15 years in prison, and Walter Kukk was sentenced to 10 years without exile and confiscation of property. The sentence was carried out on January 11, 1974, except for Oodle, who died in the prison hospital from cancer in December 1973.

[newcomer]

I do not mean exactly those who were allowed into the expense by the court, but everyone who, in one way or another, was smeared in the grudge
fascists.
Where do you think these "pensioners" come from?

[Avior]

one way or another, this is a very broad interpretation; the majority of the population of the occupied territories falls under it.

[newcomer]

Without a difference, he guarded the concentration camp, handed over the Red Army soldiers to the Ssovites, guarded or accompanied someone or something, or fought against us, burned down villages and TD and TP. Smeared in servitude to murderers_ means scum. The decision of Nuremberg is in your hands, do not talk philosophically about "broad interpretations".

[Avior]

no one pardoned those who burned down the villages.
In one way or another a lot of things are included
most of them worked for the Germans in one way or another, for example. the occupation was three years, it was necessary to survive.

Smeared into subservience to murderers

turns

[newcomer]

How primitive you think_ of cooks and janitors, we do not touch.

[Avior]

As you wrote, so I understood
It's just that those who committed the crimes you described were not amnestied until they were imprisoned, if they were not shot immediately
Some were tried twice as new facts emerged.
As for the cooks and janitors, there were also technical employees of the administrations, all sorts of land surveyors, technicians and others.

[newcomer]

Well, yes, all of you listed, however, all one henchmen of the killers, since the Wehrmacht from the SS in humanity did not differ. If we say "one way or another". Well, in general, we had cooks and technicians behind enemy lines who destroyed the enemy no worse than the partisans.

[Avior]

I am his Wehrmacht, and about the occupation administrations, somehow support life in the cities, the collective farms both worked before the war and continued, except that the German army was supplied, and agronomists, foremen and others worked there, mts, read, worked, other enterprises, schools worked to a greater or lesser extent, hospitals also worked.

[newcomer]

Well, yes, only for the good of what? Of course, everything can be justified by the desire to simply live for the population. However, what was taught in these schools? And about the work and maintenance of the Wehrmacht_ generally keep quiet.

[Esaul]

And now what to do with these names?

[Blue fox]

Reprint the list, make a huge banner and put it on the Russian side facing Estonia at every border crossing in the Pskov region. Suffice it to write- These Estonians are punishers and murderers of children. Damn them!
Let every Estonian who enters our country know that everything is remembered here.

[Jabroni]

Relatively recently, the Israeli special services have kidnapped, taken to Israel and hanged such geeks. It's a shame they don't do this anymore.

[rocket757]

shot and burned 55 village inhabitants

... CUT THE LOOK! To the author and to the one who checked it ... Guys, are you all right with .....?
As a matter of fact, the article ..... it's necessary, you can't forget this!

[Evil troll]

And this non-human still dares to bark something about the Soviet occupation.

[Shkworen]

will dare, screams will begin, "and we are for what?" and "vivsevrete" :)

[Aleksandr97]

You can't forget !!!! Everything that relates to collaborators and especially war criminals must be pulled out of the archives! Methodically and constantly eat up the baldness of all the Nazi singers in hushing up war crimes and, in fact, their "rehabilitation" with blatant "days of reconciliation", etc. !! In principle, start any official dialogue with the Baltic nonentities with accusations of crimes against humanity !!!

[Vasilenko Vladimir]

it should have been done 75 years ago, and not in "brothers" to play

[iouris]

What's next - to wipe out all villages in Estonia and Latvia? Make them pay? They are "in the house".

[Vadim Ananyin]

Then they should all be mowed down to one, here not only Estonians and others too.
Because of these bastards, my grandmother lived to be only 56 years old.
Mother lived in cellars and basements and baths that were heated in black.

[Dikson]

It's a good thing .. only .. the son does not answer for his father .. I just came across on the Internet a seemingly patriotic short film "circus performer" .. And he began to swear .. How beautiful and competently everything is shown .. - According to the plot - they stand two little girls with loops around their necks under the gallows in the village. The plates are partisans. An evil fascist in a leather coat walks past the formation of "good" Germans and hits them in the fascist muzzles because they do not want to hang up little Russian partisans.! And adult Russian partisans in clean military uniforms sit in the bushes and do not dare to attack the damned fascists. That is, do you understand what's going on? The Germans are all. - were good! They did not hang anyone, they did not burn or shoot! it sometimes met one or two evil .. And the Russian one is a clown who distracts and makes all the Germans laugh so that they don't hang the girls .. this is a movie .. and I thought .. -director, cattle you .. would you talk about Zina I shot a movie for Portnova, how she, already caught, managed to shoot the Germans and escape .. a 15-year-old girl .. And what torments she endured without betraying anyone when her wounded woman was caught .. The idea of ​​forgiving "good Germans", patriotic policemen and punishers. is diligently advancing in today's Russia .. Stake your teeth, forgiving and conciliators .. We have no right to forget the crimes against our country and our people .. There is no statute of limitations for such crimes !.

[Pete mitchell]

Quote: Dikson

The idea of ​​forgiving "good Germans", patriotic policemen and punishers. Is advancing diligently in today's Russia .. Stake in your teeth, forgiving and conciliators .. We have no right to forget the crimes against our country and our people .. Such crimes have no statute of limitations! ...

So they summed up, it's simple, but very clear.
The son is not responsible for the father, but the authorities must have the political will to stop antics "Heirs", moreover, so that there was no desire to try again to pass the procession

[Artem76]

The photo is very scary, it is unlikely that it will be possible to fall asleep calmly now, ... this helpless and at the same time reproachful look of this girl is still in front of my eyes ...

[Evil 55]

Half of the modern monsters marching across Estonia in Nazi uniforms would have done exactly the same thing on their own initiative ..

[andrew42]

I didn't get it. And where is the declassified list / list of the names of the monsters? Or a link to a source containing it? No list - nothing to discuss. The 37th Security Battalion is nothing new.

[kalibr]

What have you been waiting for so long?

[wow]

The "grandfather" Stalin IV was very kind. when, after the end of WWII, he allowed the content of THESE in the camps for the purpose of "re-education". Too kind !!! They "did not know, they were forced," and so on. etc. Only the dead don't shoot in the back !!! Axiom, damn it ....

[SARANCHA1976]

for the first time revealed the names of the Estonian punishers .. why were they ashamed before?

[Alexfly]

Now we need to steal them and condemn them, if they are alive, of course .. This is done all over the world ... The Nazis have no mercy even in a coffin

[kig]

And what was the point of keeping it a secret?

[lelik613]

Socially close. To those who kept it a secret.

[Compasure]

Quote: Terenin

Apart from the desire to destroy, there is nothing like their current minions.

Exactly to DESTROY, not to knock out teeth!