US allows Turkey to supply the Philippines with six T129 ATAK attack helicopters

The Philippines will receive six Turkish TAI T129 ATAK attack helicopters out of eight planned for delivery. Ankara received a corresponding permission from Washington.

The United States has allowed Turkey to supply the Philippines with six T129 ATAK attack helicopters manufactured by the Turkish state-owned aircraft manufacturer Turkish Aerospace Industries (TAI). At the same time, the supply of these helicopters to Pakistan is still blocked by the Americans.

The thing is that American LHTEC T129-800A turboshaft engines are installed on T4 ATAK helicopters, and the United States has banned their re-export to third countries. Moreover, the ban was introduced after Turkey purchased the Russian S-400 air defense systems. Thus, Washington "punished" the Turks who did not want to abandon the Russian anti-aircraft system.

The Americans thwarted two contracts entered into by Turkey in 2018 for the supply of eight T129 ATAK helicopters to the Philippines and thirty to Pakistan, simply by blocking these deals, refusing to issue a license to re-export LHTEC T800-4A engines.

According to the bmpd blog, although the US State Department has authorized the supply of six T129 ATAK helicopters to the Philippines, the Pakistani contract is unlikely to be implemented, as it must be approved by the US Congress, and strong anti-Turkish sentiment reigns there.

Attack helicopters of the T129 type are a licensed copy of the Italian AW129 Mangusta, developed in the 1980s. The T129 ATAK is equipped with two LHTEC CTS800-4A engines, its maximum speed is 270 km / h, and its combat radius is 561 km. The maximum height (ceiling) is 6 km. The helicopter is armed with a stationary three-barreled automatic cannon of 20 mm caliber and suspension mounts for various types of missiles.

Comments

[Zaurbek]

Pakistan won't cry for long. China has two attack helicopters in stock and experience in the production of FT-17 in Pakistan ..... and a full range of 2nd and 3rd generation ATGMs.

[max702]

Here is the hand of a free and fair market! And here the question is not what Pakistan needs or does not need, but in the very formulation of the question, the United States does not like something and does not care about market laws and relations .. That is, if necessary, any agreements, contracts, obligations, agreements will be revised in favor of the United States. What kind of free market can we talk about then? But this is the fundamental bond of the bourgeois world ..

[Zaurbek]

If the Russian Federation was the owner of so many technologies ..... You can also spit and impose sanctions.

[max702]

To do this, it is necessary to genocide two continents, organize two world wars and take advantage of their fruits, put everyone on their own currency and force them to use their financial system .. Have you figured out oceans of blood? And without this, nothing will work ..

[Zaurbek]

You flatter them. This is a large industrial power, which has no competitors on the continent, and there are no wars ... and in Europe everyone fought and fought. Plus, it’s a complete country without revolutions. And the dollar is the world's payment currency.

[max702]

This is not a power, but a world corporation of the Anglo-Saxons headed by Jewish capital ..

[Zaurbek]

Anyway .... Industrial and financial, without brakes such as aristocracy and kings. several centuries without wars and revolutions ....... Take the Russian Empire, remove WWI, revolution, WWII ... and where would we be financially and industrially?

[max702]

But just the ones I listed above did not allow it .. And for us, they organized it all ..

[bk316]

If the Russian Federation was the owner of so many technologies ..... You can also spit and impose sanctions.

There is nothing to do with the number of technologies. There is one critical one - the production of portraits of US preziks in a green palette.

[Zaurbek]

Without the first, there would be no second ..... The dollar and without it (like the Deutschemark) was widely used around the world. Most of all other currencies.

[bk316]

Without the first, there would be no second ...

You are right, but the key here is the past tense (it WOULD not be).
Now the United States, with its military and financial resources, is trying to restrain the development of new technologies throughout the world.

[Zaurbek]

c80x they "suffered" ..... what they were not sold, they are trying to restrain.

[And Us Rat]

Quote: Zaurbek

If the Russian Federation was the owner of so many technologies ...

The Russian Federation has its own technologies, and this is a complex issue.
The newest Russia, unlike the Yankees, does not sell, a different attitude to secrecy. For the United States, this is a business, and excessive secrecy interferes with business.
Sanctions add their own, and mutual bans on cooperation with those countries who might be interested.
The rest, or the military-industrial complex is so weak (Iran, Venezuela) that they do not need high-tech components, or so strong that they produce their own (China).
And customers like India tend to prefer finished products.
An interesting fact is the ABK-3 dump buckets and KMT-4 and KMT-5 mine trawls, for Israeli Merkava tanks - Russian-made.

Made in Russia

[venik]

Quote: Zaurbek

If the Russian Federation was the owner so many technologies..... You can also spit and impose sanctions.

========
As I understand it: here is a TYPE - you probably wanted to write "such a printing press"!?

[And Us Rat]

Quote: max702

Here is the hand of a free and fair market!

It has nothing to do with it. These helicopters have a bunch of American components. The products of the Turkish military-industrial complex are, in principle, 90% from imported parts.
And if they violate such a ban, they will block all supplies for them, and they will not be able to produce anything more complicated than mortar mines.

[OgnennyiKotik]

Well, your F-35s also have a bunch of Turkish components, possibly in other weapons supplied to you))

[And Us Rat]

Quote: OgnennyiKotik

Well, your F-35 has a bunch of Turkish components.

Which ones? Type of chassis tires? Turkey does not produce high technologies, from the word at all. They just started the production of explosives - recently there was an article on VO. All their "breakthrough technologies", UAVs, electronic warfare and so on - "Lego" from British / French / Korean (and so on.) Ready-made blocks and parts.

Quote: OgnennyiKotik

possibly in other weapons supplied to you))

A very limited circle. American in their technology (planes and helicopters) and a little German (submarines and torpedoes).
The circle of critical components dependent on imports, and, consequently, foreign sales permits, does not exceed 35% of the total production, and the dependence is surmountable, in case of extreme need. Today, import substitution is not economically feasible.

[OgnennyiKotik]

Quote: And Us Rat

Which ones? Type of chassis tires?

Quote: And Us Rat

American in their technology (planes and helicopters)

So they have a hodgepodge of components produced all over the world))

Quote: And Us Rat

All their "breakthrough technologies", UAVs, electronic warfare and so on - "Lego" from British / French / Korean (and so on.) Ready-made blocks and parts.

Some of the Western components, some of our own. The same Bayraktar, they have ways to assemble almost completely from their components. Which they did on TB-2S

You are going too far, very similar to our uryakalok (did not find out how the Israeli analogue will be). If you read more attentively and systematically about the Turkish industry, you will be very surprised. Personally, I was extremely surprised.

[And Us Rat]

I always try to judge by facts. Hurray-patriotism I consider a method of manipulation of the narrow-minded masses.
All these posters are certainly great, but they are advertising, do you understand how advertising differs from facts?
The fact is simple - all these companies are assemblers, do not confuse with manufacturers.
They do not have their own materials science at the required level, there is no production of military micro-electronics, CPUs, resitors, etc., etc., that is, there are no BASIC technologies, and there is still no proper scientific school, it cannot be built in 5-7 years.
They are trying, I do not argue, but they are still very far from the leaders.
Today they are at the level of the early 2000s, in some ways more, in some way less.
But they all produce on an imported basis - more precisely.

[OgnennyiKotik]

Quote: And Us Rat

advertising is different from the facts?

Sure. The fact that the F-35 consists of components manufactured in Turkey is a fact, the fact that they cannot be replaced until the end of 2022 is at least a fact. Israeli F-35s consist of 6-8% of Turkish components, this is a reality.

Quote: And Us Rat

there is no production of military micro-electronics, CPUs, resitors, etc., etc., that is, no

Something is, something is not, trying to produce everything at yourself stupidity. They produce the same lenses and matrices for optoelectronic complexes themselves and actively export

Quote: And Us Rat

there is still no proper scientific school, it cannot be built in 5-7 years.

They import it. Almost the entire military-political-technical elite has a Western education, mainly the United States and Britain. It started in the 80s.

Turkey is a part of the western world and they use its base and school, of course they do not do anything supernova, at the level of Italy or Spain. USA, Britain, France, Israel, Germany are the undisputed technical leaders. Turkey is looking for its own segments for growth, they are aimed at providing average quality at the lowest price. The same UAVs as an example, they are absolutely average, nothing breakthrough, but an unoccupied niche has been found. The products are of high quality, but technically not redundant, and therefore relatively cheap. The MAM-Bayraktar / Karayel complex occupied the niche of light drone UAVs, along the bottom MALE. Can other Western countries make them? Of course, but why? Turkey, China and Iran now have this class. The last two have the same quality as the plinth. Accordingly, Turkey is the leader in this class.

[And Us Rat]

Quote: OgnennyiKotik

Turkey, China and Iran now have this class. The last two have the same quality as the plinth. Accordingly, Turkey is the leader in this class.

As for the PRC, I do not agree. They are already breathing down the heads of the leaders. And today they have their own production of basic technologies of an almost complete cycle. And domestic solutions in key issues. The Chinese are head and shoulders above the Turks in this matter. Iran should not be taken seriously at all.
Dji drones do better.
As for the "irreplaceability" of parts for the F-35, this is a purely economic question.
First of all, important for the Turks themselves, this is an item of income. But these are not critical technologies. The replacement of which is only a matter of political will.

[Maxim G]

A couple of questions:
It turns out Turkey has already reached the level of Italy (and there are helicopter and shipbuilding).

The question about France, this is undoubtedly one of the most industrially developed countries in the world: but the engine for light aviation (TBM 900) and for aircraft of the Falcon type are American, with what this is connected, because they can certainly create their own.

[OgnennyiKotik]

Quote: Maxim G

It turns out Turkey has already reached the level of Italy (and there are helicopter and shipbuilding).

about.

Quote: Maxim G

for aircraft such as Falcon, American, with what it is connected, because they can certainly create their own.

They can, but it will be more expensive in production and service. Falcon is a purely commercial project.

[Maxim G]

And with turbines for ships, French frigates are not equipped with French turbines, but American ones, with engines on Vyartsila tanks (as on some ships, or are MTU installed on ships)?

[Pavlos Melas]

Quote: Zaurbek

Pakistan won't cry for long. China has two attack helicopters in stock and experience in the production of FT-17 in Pakistan ..... and a full range of 2nd and 3rd generation ATGMs.

Naturally, the goal here is to punish Turkey rather than Pakistan by disrupting this order. The Philippines were allowed to sell to sweeten the pill.

[Zaurbek]

While Pakistan was in line with US policy, the Americans supplied them with Cobras and F16s .... and dated the deliveries. Then the interests diverged and the Americans closed all programs for Pakistan.

[Pavlos Melas]

Quote: Zaurbek

While Pakistan was in line with US policy, the Americans supplied them with Cobras and F16s .... and dated the deliveries. Then the interests diverged and the Americans closed all programs for Pakistan.

Yes, you are right, Pakistan has a tense relationship with the United States now. Yet in my opinion here
an attempt to punish the Turks. Pakistanis will buy helicopters elsewhere, but the Turks will not sell these helicopters to anyone in such numbers, unless of course I behave correctly from the point of view of the United States.

[Thrifty]

The Turks need to create their own engine, and this requires technology and time. Even buying an engine from a motor vehicle will not save you if there are at least heels of American bolts on the helicopter! All only their own, otherwise the loss of a potential client.

[Zaurbek]

Or, when creating a helicopter or aircraft, plan turbojet / theater engines from different manufacturers. Analogs are produced by Turbomeka, China.

[Invoce]

So that someone does not prohibit something, you need to develop your technologies and industry! And especially - to pay attention to and develop the Armed Forces of the state! Then you can ignore the prohibitions of any 3-bit minke whales

[Ka-52]

a wonderful interpretation: "The United States allowed Turkey to sell helicopters to the Philippines" ... It's like a neighbor in the country let me sell a bag of my own potatoes on the collective farm market.

[Invoce]

Quote: Ka-52

a wonderful interpretation: "The United States allowed Turkey to sell helicopters to the Philippines" ... It's like a neighbor in the country let me sell a bag of my own potatoes on the collective farm market.

This is subject to an agreement to agree with the neighbor on the price and the possibility of resale of the potatoes purchased from him.

[Zaurbek]

The United States did not allow Airbus to sell A-321 to Iran ..... due to the presence of some components.

[pytar]

wonderful interpretation: "The United States allowed Turkey to sell helicopters to the Philippines" ... It's like a neighbor in the country allowed me sell a bag of my own potatoes on the collective farm market.

If yours you are going to sell potatoes in a stranger bag, you have to ask the owner of the bag if he agrees. It depends on how you agreed with them there. And if you want to sell without asking, put your potatoes in your bag.

[Maikcg]

And the potatoes are not entirely yours, tk. you agreed with your neighbor not to sell potatoes to third parties without the consent of the neighbor, for which the neighbor gave fertilizers and pesticides without which the Colorado potato beetle will eat the potatoes and there will be no business at all.

[Mouse]

American LHTEC T129-800A turboshaft engines are installed on T4 ATAK helicopters, and the United States has banned their re-export to third countries.

not all the same whip ...
I need a little cookies ...

The United States has allowed Turkey to supply the Philippines with six T129 ATAK attack helicopters manufactured by the Turkish state-owned aircraft manufacturer Turkish Aerospace Industries (TAI). At the same time, the supply of these helicopters to Pakistan is still blocked by the Americans.

I would say ... half a cookie ...

[Okolotochny]

Well, at least I didn't say the gender ... of the spruce fruit))

[Mouse]

Bump ... and in full - Ukraine ...
Reserved ...

[rotmistr60]

Americans broke two contracts signed by Turkey in 2018

And then they still take offense at Erdogan's actions and statements. And this is with the "ally" in NATO, which has the second most powerful army in the bloc after the United States. And then what can we say about every bloc trivia, especially from Eastern Europe? In a word, suzerain and vassals.

[Servisinzhener]

It's time for the Turks to think about modifying a helicopter with a Russian-made engine. For example, TV3-117VMA.

[Zaurbek]

They have already conceived with Ukrainian.

[Reserve buildbat]

For some reason, I immediately remembered Stouretkin, shouting that "the whole world works in cooperation", that instead of T-90s (which later showed themselves excellently in Syria) it is better to buy Leopards (which proved to be scrap metal in Syria), advocating for the purchase of Iveco , who were called "lynx" and were convinced of their worthlessness, and other "brilliant decisions" of this never punished traitor.

[parma]

Quote: stock buildbat

For some reason, I immediately remembered Stouretkin, shouting that "the whole world works in cooperation", that instead of T-90s (which later showed themselves excellently in Syria) it is better to buy Leopards (which proved to be scrap metal in Syria), advocating for the purchase of Iveco , who were called "lynx" and were convinced of their worthlessness, and other "brilliant decisions" of this never punished traitor.

Only Leo were in the A4 version, greetings from the 80s ... the Syrian T72 of the first models (or the T55 and T62 of the latest models) also did not show themselves too ...
There are also many questions with the "trot" - quite a worthy car, competitors in our country have not begun to produce ...

[Reserve buildbat]

If you consider that the Leo A4 is in service with several countries and is actively moving to the market, and the T-72, T-62, T-55 have not been sold to anyone for a long time, there are newer and more effective tanks, then it becomes interesting. And the "lynx" showed its absolute unsuitability for use on mountain "serpentines" (falls on its side) and on the snow (it simply cannot go anywhere).
“Tigers” were much better.

[parma]

Quote: stock buildbat

If you consider that the Leo A4 is in service with several countries and is actively moving to the market, and the T-72, T-62, T-55 have not been sold to anyone for a long time, there are newer and more effective tanks, then it becomes interesting. And the "lynx" showed its absolute unsuitability for use on mountain "serpentines" (falls on its side) and on the snow (it simply cannot go anywhere).
“Tigers” were much better.

A4 have not been produced for many years and are not sold, all that is in the world are cars of European countries (including those sold to 3 persons) that have not been modernized ... compare with the very successful modernization of the T72 00s (and these are the T90s) at least incorrect ...
Regarding the tiger, it does not have protection against 14,5, and the Italian car has such versions, with a worse anti-mine protection, there is no DUM or weapons more solid than 12,7 (except for ARS) ... and in principle this is a car of a different class .. the Italian in the “lynx” version is inferior to the tiger in a number of parameters, but the devil is in the details ...

[Reserve buildbat]

And nothing that all sorts of "Young Europeans" bought these same "Leo A4" recently and from the presence of the selling countries in the troops? And nothing that the T-72 and T-90 are very different, and even if you take the ancient T-72BV, is it very different from the export versions? By the way, the same antediluvian T-62M proved to be good when hit by cumulative ammunition. The same cannot be said about "Leo".

[parma]

Quote: stock buildbat

And nothing that all sorts of "Young Europeans" bought these same "Leo A4" recently and from the presence of the selling countries in the troops? And nothing that the T-72 and T-90 are very different, and even if you take the ancient T-72BV, is it very different from the export versions? By the way, the same antediluvian T-62M proved to be good when hit by cumulative ammunition. The same cannot be said about "Leo".

Of the young Europeans, only Hungary and Poland ... both are planning modernization ... but we moved away from the topic, old models of armored vehicles were used against relatively modern ATGMs - the result is predictable, and the reason is not that the tank is scrap metal, and the Turks are not geniuses (Chechnya then had to show that Soviet equipment was scrap metal?) ...

[T.A.V.]

And since when do Americans give permission to sell? Honest business from outside

[Maikcg]

Ever since the Turks installed an American engine in their helicopter. Here is how import substitution will be done, all questions will go away.