Military Review

Baltic before the crusaders

82
Baltic before the crusaders

Layering



By the beginning of the Iron Age, social stratification had developed in the Baltics, as evidenced by clear differences in funeral customs. The supreme lived on the dominant farm within the settlement or in mountain fortresses. They were buried in stone graves with various important artifacts. Simple peasants were buried with only modest funeral property. The remains of the poorest people, those who were probably dependent on larger farms, were placed in earthen graves or simply laid on the ground in designated areas.

During the Roman Iron Age (50–450 AD), the dead were buried in aboveground graves: Taranda graves in Estonia and northern Latvia, stone mounds in Lithuania and southern Latvia. By the eighth century, new funerary customs spread throughout Lithuania and soon began to spread northward. By the ninth century, cremation began to prevail.

There were notable differences in burial customs in the region, which allow archaeologists to delineate the areas of settlement of various Baltic tribes. For example, in the late Iron Age (800–1200), the Lettigallians buried men with their heads to the east and women with their heads to the west. Men were usually buried with an ax and two spears. A custom practiced only by Lithuanians was the ritual burial of horses after the death of their owner.

Written sources about the peoples of the eastern Baltic states until the second millennium are scarce. The Roman historian Tacitus in his book "Germany", written in 98 AD. e., was the first to describe the Baltic tribes, most likely the Prussians, whom he called the Aestii. He describes them as worshiping the Mother of the Gods and collecting amber from the sea. In Roman times, amber was the commodity most highly prized by traders. The Vistula River provided a trade route through which amber reached the outposts of the Roman Empire.

At that time, the Baltic tribes inhabited a much larger territory than they do now: from the Vistula to the Dnieper in central Russia. After the collapse of the Roman Empire, the great migration of peoples in the fifth and sixth centuries, especially the Slavs, drove the Balts into a more compact area, and also further north, into the territory inhabited by Finnish-speaking peoples, especially the Livs.

The Lithuanians consisted of two large groups: the Zemayts or Samayts ("lowlands"), who lived around the mouth of the Neman River, which flows into the Baltic Sea, and the Aukstaits ("Highlanders"), who lived further up the river to the east. Both of these groups themselves consisted of several tribal territories. Other Baltic tribes closely related to the Lithuanians living to the west and southwest of them were the Skalvians, Yalta and Prussians, who inhabited the territory of modern northeastern Poland and the Kaliningrad region of the Russian Federation.

The largest Baltic tribe inhabiting the territory of modern Latvia, and from which the name Latvians later came, were the Latigalls. They were the last tribe to arrive, driven out of present-day Belarus by Slavic migration to the eastern part of Latvia north of the Daugava River. Other proto-Latvian tribes were Selonians south of the Daugava River.

The Semigalese lands were also located south of the Daugava, but directly west of the Selonian lands. The Curonian lands were located along the western coast of modern Latvia and Lithuania. The coast of the Gulf of Riga was inhabited by the Livs, close linguistic relatives of the Estonians.

Although the Proto-Estonians were not divided into ethnically distinct tribes, there were marked cultural differences between those Estonians who inhabited the south and north of the country, as well as those who lived in the western coastal regions and islands, and who were most directly influenced by Scandinavian influences. Another Finnish tribe lived in the north-eastern part of Estonia - the Votians (Votians), whose habitat extended to the territory of modern St. Petersburg.

Settlements


Throughout the Iron Age, agriculture evolved, evolving from a slash-and-burn system to a two-field rotary system and, ultimately, to a more efficient three-field system. Towards the end of the first millennium, a system of striped fields emerged, which facilitated the formation of villages. The villages came together to form political communities ruled by elders. These areas, as a rule, were concentrated on the fortified settlement.

Later, with Christianization, these areas of fortified settlements usually formed the basis of the parishes, which became the main administrative units until the twentieth century. Larger territorial units were formed at the beginning of the second millennium, when several of these areas merged together to form the land or chiefdoms. For example, the territory inhabited by the Livs consisted of four lands. The territory inhabited by the semi-Gallians consisted of seven separate lands. These were sovereign units that themselves determined their relations with neighboring lands.

The development of fortified settlements and open settlements demonstrates the evolution of social and political structures. That is, the ambitions of the elite in the Baltic region. Former settlements were built in Lithuania at the beginning of the Roman Iron Age, in Latvia at the end of the Roman Iron Age, and finally in Estonia in the sixth century. Differences in the level of social and political development during the late Iron Age are illustrated by the number of city fortifications: there were about 700 city fortifications in Lithuania, almost 200 in Latvia and less than 100 in Estonia. These figures also indicate that the society in the Lithuanian regions was more hierarchical and paid more attention to military virtues. While in the north, especially in the Estonian areas, the communities remained more egalitarian.

By the twelfth century, some settlements, such as Ersika (Gerzika) on the Daugava, had turned into places of permanent residence, where the military leaders and their attendants lived. Kernavė in Lithuania was the largest and most important castle mound. And it was believed that in the thirteenth century, 3000 people lived in it. The population density in the Baltics at the end of the Iron Age was estimated at about three people per square kilometer.

Compared to Central Europe, the Baltic society was noticeably less stratified and egalitarian. In addition to slaves, mostly women and children, obtained from raids on neighboring lands, most of the people were free peasants. A distinction can be made between the social structure that developed towards the end of the Iron Age in the coastal and western regions, and the social structure in southeastern Estonia, eastern Latvia, and central and eastern Lithuania. In the first, social stratification began earlier, with the emergence of a numerically significant layer of bosses (albeit with a small number of possessions and weak powers). While in the latter regions, the stratification began later and was more intense: the number of chiefs remained small, but the size of their territory and the scope of their powers were much larger. In the first regions, Scandinavian influences were pronounced, in the second, East Slavic ones.

It is impossible to say anything with certainty about the pre-Christian religion. Stone Age religious practices were typical of ancestor and fertility cults. The natives' belief system can be characterized as animistic: the belief that everything in the natural world has a spirit. By the early Iron Age, humans had also begun to worship personified and anthropomorphic celestial gods. Later written sources mention the most notable deities Perkunas (Baltic) and Taara (Estonian), both gods of thunder, akin to the Scandinavian Thor.

Before the arrival of the crusaders


Although the Baltic история before the arrival of the crusaders at the end of the 1009th century, it is considered prehistory due to the lack of written sources; in the Scandinavian sagas and Russian chronicles there are numerous references to the Baltic and Finnish tribes. Lithuania is first mentioned in a German chronicle written in 800, which refers to the martyrdom of a Christian missionary named Bruno. During the Viking Age (1050-XNUMX), Scandinavian warriors regularly raided the eastern shores of the Baltic Sea.

Archbishop Rimbert of Bremen in the Life of Saint Ansgar tells about the crushing defeat of the Danish naval expedition against the Curonians and the subsequent victorious Swedish campaign against the Curonians in the 850s. The intensity of interaction throughout the Baltic Sea is evidenced by the runic monuments of the XNUMXth century preserved in Sweden, in which soldiers who died in the battle on the eastern coast of the Baltic Sea are recorded. With the exception of the Swedish colony on the southwestern coast of Latvia in Grobipa in the XNUMXth century, local resistance prevented the Scandinavians from gaining a foothold in the Baltic lands.

In any case, the Vikings were more tempted by the wealth that could be obtained further to the east and south. The two main trade routes to the east, which were used by the Vikings, crossed the Baltic lands. The first is across the Gulf of Finland along the Estonian coast, up the Neva to Lake Ladoga and down to Novgorod. Or east to the Volga to reach the Caspian Sea. The second - along the Daugava to the Dnieper, south to Kiev and across the Black Sea to Constantinople. A smaller route took the Neman River through Lithuanian territory to reach the Dnieper downstream.

The indirect contacts with the Middle East established through these trade routes to Byzantium are evidenced by the treasures of Arab silver coins (dirhams) of the XNUMXth century, which were discovered in the Baltic region. One colorful saga about interaction in the Baltic Sea region is the story of the Norwegian king Olaf Tryggvason, who was captured as a child by Estonian pirates on his way to Novgorod and sold into slavery. The Viking princely dynasties played an important role in the formation of the earliest Russian state - Kievan Rus in the XNUMXth century.

Russian principalities actively expanded west and north in the tenth and eleventh centuries. Russian chronicles report that in 1030 the Estonian settlement of Tartu was captured by the Grand Duke of Kievan Rus Yaroslav the Wise, who also opposed the Lithuanians ten years later (in 1040). In the XNUMXth century, the Russians penetrated further west, into Black Russia, establishing a fortress in Novogorodok (Novogrudok). However, the initiative passed to the Lithuanians by the end of the century, when the state of Kievan Rus was fragmented.

The Proto-Latvian tribes were most closely associated with the Russians. Lettigallians paid tribute to the neighboring Russian principalities of Pskov and Polotsk. And the Lettigale land in the middle reaches of the Daugava was ruled by a Polotsk vassal. Some Latigal leaders converted to Orthodoxy. Selonians and Livs who lived on the banks of the Daugava also paid tribute to Polotsk from time to time.

Until the beginning of the XNUMXth century and the Christianization of Scandinavia, Viking raids were carried out mainly in one direction - the Scandinavian Vikings raided the eastern shores of the Baltic. The Scandinavian Viking Age was followed by the Baltic Viking Age, with sea raids by Curonians and Estonians from the island of Saaremaa (Donkey).

In 1187, Estonians from Saaremaa even sacked the main city of Sweden, Sigtuna, prompting the Swedes to later build a new capital in Stockholm. Christian Swedish and Danish kings undertook punitive expeditions against the Curonians and Estonians. But until the XNUMXth century, these raids were mainly aimed at neutralizing the threat of East Baltic piracy, rather than conquering territories or converting the natives to Christianity.
Author:
Photos used:
https://r.mt.ru/r4/photoFD9C/20237305258-0/jpg/bp.jpeg
82 comments
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  1. Serpet
    Serpet 15 May 2021 04: 27
    +25
    Thanks to the author for the work, very informative hi
    1. Kote Pan Kokhanka
      Kote Pan Kokhanka 15 May 2021 05: 54
      0
      Quote: Serpet
      Thanks to the author for the work, very informative hi

      I read it with pleasure, though I am afraid that such terms as "the early Roman Iron Age" will make many comrades scratch their heads and tighten their wrinkles !!! laughing
      Others will be indignant, where are the pictures? repeat at least a map of the region did not interfere!
      The rest is a solid article with a scientific flavor, for which thanks to Vladimir and we look forward to continuing !!!
      1. Peak
        Peak 15 May 2021 06: 53
        -5
        Quote: Kote pane Kohanka
        I am afraid that such terms as "early Roman Iron Age" will make many comrades scratch their heads and tighten their wrinkles !!!

        Like the "proto-Estonians" ...
        Sounds and looks like "proto-ukry", only passive and slow.
        Without impulses of enthusiasm for digging seas and oceans.
        1. Kote Pan Kokhanka
          Kote Pan Kokhanka 15 May 2021 07: 26
          +4
          Quote: PiK
          Like the "proto-Estonians"

          What bothers you?
          We do not know what the ancestors of the Estonians called themselves in the late Stone Age. So the use of the proto "do" prefix is ​​considered by the Author to be justified.
          Regarding the "proto-Uurains" I agree funny, as Russians, Ukrainians, Belarusians reckon their history from the Eastern Slavs.
          1. Proxima
            Proxima 15 May 2021 13: 06
            +7
            Quote: Kote Pan Kokhanka
            Quote: PiK
            Like the "proto-Estonians"

            What bothers you?
            We do not know what the ancestors of the Estonians called themselves in the late Stone Age.

            Well, this is not an entirely correct term. There were no so-called proto-Estonians, but there were Finno-Ugric tribes who later became Estonians, Finns, Khanty, Karelians, Hungarians, Vepsians, Sami and so on.
            1. Peak
              Peak 17 May 2021 07: 06
              -1
              Quote: Proxima
              Well, this is not quite the correct term. There were no so-called proto-Estonians, but there were Finno-Ugric tribes who later became Estonians

              Not correct at all.
        2. tihonmarine
          tihonmarine 15 May 2021 10: 15
          0
          Quote: PiK
          Sounds and looks like "proto-ukry", only passive and slow.

          Only protoukry turned out after the Mongol-Tatar conquest of Russia.
      2. knn54
        knn54 15 May 2021 09: 42
        +4
        For some reason, not a word has been said about the Yatvingians, who participated in the ethnogenesis of the Lithuanian, Belarusian and Polish peoples.
        1. Vsevolod
          Vsevolod 15 May 2021 11: 44
          0
          What for? Introduce contradictions to nonsense?
      3. Richard
        Richard 15 May 2021 14: 46
        +7
        at least a map of the region did not interfere!

        Is this suitable?
    2. Bar1
      Bar1 15 May 2021 09: 04
      -7
      the article is called a lie on a lie.
      - "Latigaly", the author himself invents the names of peoples. Actually, this part of the present people of Latvia is called Latgalians.
      Back in the 20th century in RI, this people had a main city, which was called completely in Russian - Rezhitsa, and not like now Rezhekne i.e. it can be quite asserted that the Latgalians, as well as the Galicians-Galicia or the Russians from Galich, are Russians who became the Baltic states by the criminal tsarist and Bolshevik policies.
      -Riga is the main city of Latvians, but in Ruska Riga is a straw shed.
      -Zhemaity, no one called them that before, but they called them zhmudy, as if by softer-squeeze, like zhidov. Apparently there is a connection. The river Neman / Memel in the lower reaches was called Rusa, and there is a city there to this day.
      -Esty is generally translated from foreign -vostochniki. A good name, they called themselves a part of the world and even not in their own way.
      Tallinn / Revel used to be called completely Ruska -Kolyvan.
      -Baltic - etymology from Latin Belt / belt, but what kind of belt is it? Does the Baltic Sea look like a belt? Most likely this is a strongly distorted word BAR _tika from the Varangian / Bar tribe living on the Vagriya / Baria peninsula. (Research by the historian Andrei Paul)
      -Könixberg-on the card of the clerk Vinius was called the Queen.
      -Vistula, on old maps it was called Vistula.
      I came up with such a technique, if we take two Soviet population censuses for 1959. and RI for 1897. and look at the population growth during this time, and then project in the same order into the past that all these Baltic peoples. which during the USSR had the largest population from 1.5 mph to 3 mph. by the beginning of the 19th century, they practically disappear completely, as a category. What then can we say about what kind of Middle Ages and even millennia in the past among these peoples. So all these written sources from which historians deduce all these peoples, including the Radziwill Chronicle, are a later revision from the word edit, or better to say, a story that is lying in its essence.
      1. The comment was deleted.
    3. Bar1
      Bar1 15 May 2021 10: 08
      -3
      In 1187, Estonians from Saaremaa even plundered the main city of Sweden, Sigtuna, prompting the Swedes to later build a new capital in Stockholm.


      it is necessary to come up with such a thing from the Russian historians took away a glorious victory. In the 19th century there were not even a million of these Estonians. But it was because the Russian Novgorodians fought the Swedes in Segtuni, the historian Dmitry Belousov convincingly speaks about this. And if they were Estonians, then the gate from Segtuny hung would be Tallinn, not Novgorod.

  2. Catfish
    Catfish 15 May 2021 04: 37
    0
    Thanks to the Author for the interesting and well-presented material. good
    Until this morning for me it was a completely unknown and dark page in our common history.
    1. tihonmarine
      tihonmarine 15 May 2021 10: 18
      +4
      Quote: Sea Cat
      Thanks to the Author for the interesting and well-presented material.
      Until this morning for me it was a completely unknown and dark page in our common history.

      I join, although I live in the Baltics, but some points are interesting for me too. I would like to wish the author to continue his endeavors.
  3. parusnik
    parusnik 15 May 2021 07: 20
    +4
    The Germans then got down to business more thoroughly.
  4. sergo1914
    sergo1914 15 May 2021 08: 13
    +3
    The supreme lived on the dominant farm within the settlement or in mountain fortresses.


    1) Already shuddered. Nothing changes in this world.
    2) Mountain fortresses? In the Baltics? Where I am? Is this planet Earth, the third planet from the Sun?
    1. Andy
      Andy 15 May 2021 15: 50
      +1

      at the top of the hill. sometimes pretty cool. Otepää town. there was a fortified settlement.
      1. sergo1914
        sergo1914 16 May 2021 09: 23
        +2
        Quote: Andy

        at the top of the hill. sometimes pretty cool. Otepää town. there was a fortified settlement.


        Mountain on the hill? Features of translation from Baltic into Russian?
        1. Andy
          Andy 17 May 2021 13: 06
          0
          yes, linguistic. so understand and forgive
    2. The comment was deleted.
  5. Vladimir Zyryanov
    15 May 2021 10: 19
    +3
    I also recommend reading my other articles:
    The first industrial revolution. A brief history - https://paypress.ru/first-industrial-revolution-short-history-6777
    Social unrest in the Russian Empire during the war - https://paypress.ru/
    Finland in World War II. Part 1 - https://sotoguide.ru/articles14/508/
    Finland in World War II. Part 2 - https://sotoguide.ru/articles14/510/
    February Revolution of 1917 - https://sotoguide.ru/articles14/504/
  6. Vsevolod
    Vsevolod 15 May 2021 11: 39
    -5
    What a shameful nonsense!
    1. sergo1914
      sergo1914 16 May 2021 09: 24
      -2
      Quote: Vsevolod
      What a shameful nonsense!


      Section "History". It's time to get used to it.
  7. ee2100
    ee2100 15 May 2021 11: 40
    +8
    I agree with the author that there are very few written sources on the Baltics, which gives reason to dream up and draw parallels with the development of other peoples. Rather, it was so.
    “There were about 700 city fortifications in Lithuania, almost 200 in Latvia and less than 100 in Estonia. These figures also indicate that the society in the Lithuanian regions was more hierarchical and paid more attention to military virtues. While in the north, especially in Estonian areas, communities remained more egalitarian. "(c)
    These figures indicate primarily the area of ​​residence and population.
    Below will be a photo of the settlement Varbola (Estonia), its area is about 2 hectares. In the center is a well, 15 meters deep and an entrance with a left-hand turn.


    1. Kote Pan Kokhanka
      Kote Pan Kokhanka 15 May 2021 11: 52
      +3
      Quote: ee2100
      “There were about 700 city fortifications in Lithuania, almost 200 in Latvia and less than 100 in Estonia.

      Hello, Alexander!
      I think, after all, fortified settlements, not urban settlements! However, the claim is not to you, but to the Author, who is trying to pull the later and progressive formations to pull on the tribal society of the Balts.
      1. ee2100
        ee2100 15 May 2021 12: 07
        +5
        Fortified settlement or city border, you must agree conditional. The settlement is for sure.
        1. bk0010
          bk0010 15 May 2021 18: 01
          +2
          Quote: ee2100
          Fortified settlement or city border, you must agree conditional.
          No, they are different things. The settlement is a fortified place where the rent was taken from the surrounding lands, the stronghold of the prince.
          1. ee2100
            ee2100 15 May 2021 18: 21
            +2
            Where did people live? Behind the walls? I posted a photo of the settlement, more than 2 x hectares.
            It is a fortified settlement. Walls around the perimeter up to 13 meters, and what kind of prince in Estonia? Where did you read this?
            1. bk0010
              bk0010 15 May 2021 20: 11
              0
              Quote: ee2100
              Where did you read this?
              I don’t remember already. It explained how barbarian kingdoms differ from ordinary ones.
          2. Kote Pan Kokhanka
            Kote Pan Kokhanka 15 May 2021 19: 31
            -1
            Quote: bk0010
            No, they are different things. The settlement is a fortified place where the rent was taken from the surrounding lands, the stronghold of the prince.

            For some reason, I thought that the settlement was the main settlement of the clan, later of the neighboring community.
            Place of collection of tribute churchyard. Although in the polyudye the prince came to the settlement with his retinue to judge, trade and feed.
            1. bk0010
              bk0010 15 May 2021 20: 10
              +3
              Quote: Kote pane Kohanka
              Place of collection of tribute churchyard. Although in the polyudye the prince came to the settlement with his retinue to judge, trade and feed.
              Polyudye is still a barbarian kingdom. There was no need for a settlement: the prince with his retinue went and took what they liked. An example is the husband of Princess Olga, who, just at the time of polyudya, was overkill for being too greyhound. Then a bureaucratic apparatus is created and it begins to collect not a polyudye, but a quitrent, without a squad. He has armed forces, but they are weak in comparison with the princely squad. To preserve the collected and invented fortifications.
  8. Trilobite Master
    Trilobite Master 15 May 2021 12: 18
    +3
    While studying the history of the conquest of the Baltic by the Germans, I naturally touched upon the issues of what was there before their arrival. The "Roman Iron Age" did not interest me very much, but later events were quite.
    The fact that the author did not mention the Yatvingians and Galindians is quite explainable by the fact that these tribes lived far from the Baltic, here he can be forgiven. smile It is not entirely clear why he limited himself to mentioning only the Balts and Finno-Ugrians, because the Slavs also lived well on the shores of the Baltic. I can only assume that the author had in mind the Eastern Baltic, but then this needs to be specified already in the title of the article.
    About traces of the presence of the Vikings in the Baltic States - the holy truth, this presence was also noted by Lebedev, for example, including the Scandinavian burials of the Vikings who were clearly killed in battle.
    Amused some things:
    there were about 700 city fortifications in Lithuania, almost 200 in Latvia and less than 100 in Estonia.

    That is, the author has any fortified settlement - urban. smile Still, it should be noted that these settlements have nothing to do with later cities - just villages, surrounded by a fence and that's it. It was these settlements that the Vikings called "gard" and it was from them that the name "Gardarika" originated, which should be translated not "country of cities", but "country of fortified villages". smile There were no cities on the territory of the Eastern Baltic, in any case, they were not recorded until the appearance of the Slavs there.
    The main centers of the Slavic colonization of the Baltics were Polotsk and Novgorod. The border of their spheres of influence passed along the river Gauya - to the north - Novgorod, to the south - Polotsk. The Polotsk principality also actively developed to the west, the exact boundaries of its possessions in this direction have not been established. There is a hypothesis (and it seems to me personally quite reasonable) that the Lithuanian tribes at the time of the first Polotsk princes (the deadline is the reign of Vseslav the Prophetic, until 1100) recognized their dependence on Polotsk and, in fact, were vassals of the Polotsk prince, not only paying him tribute, but also participating in his military enterprises until the beginning of the XIII century. This hypothesis explains why the Lithuanian princes subsequently managed to subjugate Polotsk so easily - they were just a part of this principality for over a hundred years, there was no occupation with a change of dynasty, but simply a shift in the center of power to the west - from Polotsk to Vilna within the same land.
    According to Sigtuna.
    Perhaps, according to one of the versions, as it seems to me personally, rather weakly argued, the Estonian Vikings could have taken part in the capture and plundering of Sigtuna. Even if this was so, then their role in this enterprise was far from leading, as, indeed, the role of the Russians. The bulk of the contingent that plundered the Swedish capital was undoubtedly Korels.
    1. ee2100
      ee2100 15 May 2021 12: 31
      +2
      Considering that the Karelians attacked Sigtuna unexpectedly, it means that the operation was being prepared secretly and they would hardly have begun to spread about it to the protoestists.
      1. 3x3zsave
        3x3zsave 15 May 2021 16: 34
        +1
        It is a very difficult and rare case when I cannot understand which is more interesting, a polemic or an article.
        1. ee2100
          ee2100 15 May 2021 16: 36
          +2
          Probably good evening, of course the first drinks
          1. 3x3zsave
            3x3zsave 15 May 2021 16: 44
            +1
            And to you, Alexander, good evening and not boring weekend!
            "The first" is very "seamless".
            1. ee2100
              ee2100 15 May 2021 16: 47
              +1
              I didn’t write that the article was boring out of respect for the topic. And the topic is really interesting!
              1. 3x3zsave
                3x3zsave 15 May 2021 16: 50
                0
                And the topic is really interesting!
                Undoubtedly!
                1. ee2100
                  ee2100 15 May 2021 16: 57
                  +2
                  Anton! There is no doubt about it, but there is little information and mostly guesses and speculations.
                  Before the arrival of the Danes in Estonia and the knights in the Baltic states, there was practically no information about this land in general. But people lived and adopted both good and bad from their neighbors.
                  I posted a photo of the settlement, I wanted to write an article about it, but there is no filing.
                  In the Chronicles, this settlement is mentioned, as are the roads to it, which means that the infrastructure was there and people and goods were moving.
                  Although this is a bearish corner of Europe, it is still Europe!
                  1. 3x3zsave
                    3x3zsave 15 May 2021 17: 03
                    0
                    filing
                    Perhaps I will seem like a greyhound, but this term is unfamiliar to me.
                    1. ee2100
                      ee2100 15 May 2021 17: 07
                      +1
                      And "tightness" !?
                      feeling - feeling. In the broadest sense of the word. No feeling that it turns out well
                      1. 3x3zsave
                        3x3zsave 15 May 2021 17: 15
                        +1
                        No feeling that it turns out well
                        ABOUT! This is familiar! Three times I started to write an article about Priyutino, then I reread what I had begun and rubbed out nafig! This is taking into account the fact that I myself can conduct excursions in the estate.
                        "Integral" - slamznost as a whole.
                      2. ee2100
                        ee2100 15 May 2021 17: 31
                        +1
                        I drove there 100 times, but never been. I will definitely stop by in June.
                        My son has a dacha nearby
                      3. 3x3zsave
                        3x3zsave 15 May 2021 17: 37
                        +2
                        Would you like a guided tour with my lecture? I can tell much more about the Olenins than the best of the official guides.
                    2. ee2100
                      ee2100 15 May 2021 17: 33
                      +1
                      A seamless owl. What's cool?
                    3. 3x3zsave
                      3x3zsave 15 May 2021 17: 41
                      +2
                      Uh-huh. Reminds of "Schrödinger's cat".
                    4. ee2100
                      ee2100 15 May 2021 17: 51
                      +1
                      "Schrödinger's cat" for me is something abstruse.
                      We can also on your excursion, if not expensive drinks
                    5. 3x3zsave
                      3x3zsave 15 May 2021 17: 58
                      +2
                      The freebie is complete! I'm an amateur, not a professional.
                    6. 3x3zsave
                      3x3zsave 15 May 2021 18: 08
                      +1
                      Prices for tickets to Russian museums hover around 0,75 €. Exception, Moscow museums. But there is a different country.
                    7. ee2100
                      ee2100 15 May 2021 18: 16
                      +1
                      OK, deal
                    8. 3x3zsave
                      3x3zsave 15 May 2021 18: 21
                      +2
                      Designate the date. It would be nice for me to prepare, because I am not a tour guide, and I do not remember everything by heart.
                    9. ee2100
                      ee2100 15 May 2021 18: 22
                      +1
                      Okay, I'm going to St. Petersburg after June 1st. When I get there, I will write to you, and there we will agree on the date.
                    10. 3x3zsave
                      3x3zsave 15 May 2021 18: 24
                      +1
                      Agreed
                    11. ee2100
                      ee2100 15 May 2021 18: 24
                      +1
                      Thank you! See you
                    12. 3x3zsave
                      3x3zsave 15 May 2021 18: 27
                      +2
                      Not at all yet. Listen, rate.
                    13. ee2100
                      ee2100 15 May 2021 18: 28
                      +1
                      OK, good luck
          2. 3x3zsave
            3x3zsave 16 May 2021 07: 11
            0
            I'm sorry, the order has beguiled. Around 7,5 €.
    2. Phil77
      Phil77 15 May 2021 18: 36
      +2

      Doesn't it remind you?
    3. 3x3zsave
      3x3zsave 15 May 2021 18: 41
      +1
      No, Seryozha, does not remind.
    4. ee2100
      ee2100 15 May 2021 18: 56
      +1
      Hey! Give your version!
    5. ee2100
      ee2100 15 May 2021 18: 57
      +1
      M. b. Is Pushkinsky a scientist cat?
  • Mike_E
    Mike_E 16 May 2021 00: 12
    +1
    In my opinion, polemics are almost always more interesting than the article itself. With rare exceptions.
  • Bar1
    Bar1 15 May 2021 13: 46
    0
    Quote: Trilobite Master
    The bulk of the contingent that plundered the Swedish capital was undoubtedly Korels.


    and why then the Sigtun gates are not in Korelia, but in Novgorod?
    1. ee2100
      ee2100 15 May 2021 14: 44
      +3
      Hi!
      Sigtunsky, they are also Magdeburgsky, Korsunsky, Plotsky.
      The origin is not certain.
      1. Bar1
        Bar1 15 May 2021 14: 54
        0
        Quote: ee2100
        Hi!
        Sigtunsky, they are also Magdeburgsky, Korsunsky, Plotsky.
        The origin is not certain.


        hello, hello, I put one historian on top of the movie, just in the subject.
        1. ee2100
          ee2100 15 May 2021 14: 56
          +1
          I saw the video. As an opinion, yes has every right. Much probably was so.
          1. Bar1
            Bar1 15 May 2021 14: 59
            0
            Quote: ee2100
            I saw the video. As an opinion, yes has every right. Much probably was so.


            In general, this video does not draw on opinion, but on research, because the work was carried out according to the original sources, the names are called and the links are attached, so against this chaotic little article, that video is a more serious matter.
            1. ee2100
              ee2100 15 May 2021 15: 04
              0
              As far as I remember, the capture of Sigtuna was in the summer. And immediately the question is how the troops moved. On water. And where did the Novgorodians get so many ships from?
              1. Bar1
                Bar1 15 May 2021 15: 19
                -1
                Quote: ee2100
                As far as I remember, the capture of Sigtuna was in the summer. And immediately the question is how the troops moved. On water. And where did the Novgorodians get so many ships from?


                Well, yes, the attack was on ships, and as for the ships, there are a lot of forests in Novgorod and Karelia, so there were no problems building ships.
                By the way, a little philology from me.
                -Karelia, Korelians is most likely distorted from Kolo / Sun, a carriage, where the soft l changes to a sonorous r. This rule is in philology. Let me remind you that Herodotus called the Slavs SKOLOTY i.e.
                - chipped-se_koloty / kolyane, SOKOLYANE, it was the SELF-NAME of the Slavs
                -ship-box / box, hence the corvette, caravel, karbas, and maybe a distorted frigate.
                1. ee2100
                  ee2100 15 May 2021 15: 25
                  +1
                  About phylogy is not for me.
                  About ships. Novgorodians or ushkuyniks, as the historian broadcasts in your enclosed video, are means not adapted to sail by sea.
                  Ie, in your opinion, Novgorodians specially built sea vessels?
                  Isn't it a very cost-effective operation?
                  1. Bar1
                    Bar1 15 May 2021 15: 31
                    -3
                    I generally believe that Novgorodians / Yaroslavl had ports in the Baltic Sea along the NKh and could not have such a powerful medieval state.

                    as we can see on this map there is Novgorod, both on the Volga and on the Volkhov - this is a transitional map, where they began to draw what was not there.

                    1. ee2100
                      ee2100 15 May 2021 15: 38
                      +2
                      I do not agree about the ports. The port is always a threat from the sea. And then, Novgorod lived well in trade. They do not seek from goodness, goodness.
                      Novgorod put Estonia under the rule of the Danes and knights practically without a fight.
                      Novgorod did not have enough resources to keep it all.
                      Fortress Ladoga, and later Oreshek, is 100% intrusion protection.
                    2. Bar1
                      Bar1 15 May 2021 16: 03
                      -6
                      Quote: ee2100
                      Novgorod put Estonia under the rule of the Danes and knights practically without a fight.
                      Novgorod did not have enough resources to keep it all.


                      I have already shown you a map that does not fit into the OI in any way, but it even fits the New Chronology of Fomenko and Nosovsky, who claim that Novgorod was the capital of the world.
                      As for the OI, in order to discuss these topics, you need to know your sources, when Novgorod gave Estonia to the Danes, why did it, who wrote it? I don't know that. Give me a digestible link.
                    3. ee2100
                      ee2100 15 May 2021 16: 32
                      0
                      I will not give a link, this is my opinion. Opinion based on summarized material.
              2. Bar1
                Bar1 15 May 2021 16: 11
                -1
                Quote: ee2100
                About ships. Novgorodians or ushkuyniks, as the historian broadcasts in your enclosed video, are means not adapted to sail by sea.


                why? It was the historian Belousov who spoke about the fact that the Novgorodians built ears and sea and river.



                watch from 19min.
                1. ee2100
                  ee2100 15 May 2021 16: 30
                  0
                  I will write again, this is his opinion. Look at the outlines of river vessels and sea vessels. And the questions will disappear.
  • Rita Aletdinova 1999
    Rita Aletdinova 1999 16 May 2021 01: 58
    -1
    Cities on the territory of the Baltic States appeared during the reign of the knights.
  • north 2
    north 2 15 May 2021 18: 05
    0
    and why the article does not say anything about Lithuania Minor, what happened in East Prussia, if we talk about the Baltic States, the paradox is that the Lithuanians who moved there from Samogitia spoke the Aukštait dialect of the Lithuanian language. The names of cities in Lithuania Minor were also Lithuanian, and they still remain so in today's Lithuania. Not Kaliningrad, but Karaliauchus, not Chernyakhovsk, but Isprutis, not Gusev, but Gumbine, not Gvardeysk, but Teplyava, not Mamonovo, but Sventapile.
    Incidentally, after the war, Stalin proposed to annex the Kaliningrad region to the Lithuanian SSR. Thank God it didn't happen
  • Yuriy71
    Yuriy71 15 May 2021 20: 37
    0
    Dear Author! I read the first paragraph and - immediately a rejection from your work: "The supreme lived on a dominant farm within the settlement or in mountain fortresses." I would like to ask where, in the Baltic States, have you seen "mountain" reliefs, so that there were "mountain fortresses"? I, of course, understand what you meant, I myself have lived my entire adult life in Lithuania .... but there are no mountains there! There are moraine hills with hilly and undulating relief! I read further ...)))
  • Yuriy71
    Yuriy71 15 May 2021 20: 49
    -2
    From the actual point of view, it is not correct to call modern Lithuanians Lithuanians! This is not True at the Root !!! They are SHMUD - Zhemaitas !!! Lithuania is today's Belarus! It is a shame for such a Historian not to know the elementary BASES of the very story that he is trying to tell here !!!
  • north 2
    north 2 15 May 2021 23: 51
    0
    unfortunately the author is simply distorting the story.
    Firstly, the aukštaits in Lithuania are not any "mountaineers" as the author writes here, because the highest place in Lithuania is only a hill that does not even reach three hundred meters above sea level. And about zhmud, zhemaitov, the author completely turned into the jungle. The fact is that before the Crusaders there was no part of Lithuania. After all, the author writes about Lithuania before the crusaders. Moreover, zhmud became part of the Grand Duchy of Lithuania only after the Battle of Grunwald, after which it is no longer necessary to speak of the crusaders as an influential force. More than that, zhmud, they weren't Lithuanians .. This was a completely independent nation and this was recognized not only by Tsarist Russia, but even by the USSR in Soviet times. And if now айemaitis speaks to a Lithuanian in the Samogitian language, it is virtually impossible to understand him. And this is after six hundred years of Zhmudi's integration into Lithuanian society. And this integration began with the fact that Prince Vytautas simply drowned him in blood. By the way, when Lukoshenko and Belarusian historians today say that it is Belarus that is the heir to the Grand Duchy of Lithuania, then he is right, because those lands, aukstaits, about which I started commenting are the lands of the Old Church Slavonic state, on the lands of which Belarus is today .. There is even the Krevo Castle, where Jagiello strangled his uncle Keistut, and where the Krevo Union was signed, one of the most important treaties of that time for the Grand Duchy of Lithuania and Poland ...
    1. Rita Aletdinova 1999
      Rita Aletdinova 1999 16 May 2021 01: 36
      -5
      In fact, Belarusians are the Balts. I read about studies of their DNA and it was indicated there that Belarusians have a significant share of the Baltic gene and outwardly they are very similar to Lithuanians and Latvians. This is probably why protests gravitate towards Lithuania as a historical homeland.
  • Rita Aletdinova 1999
    Rita Aletdinova 1999 16 May 2021 01: 34
    -6
    The author writes that the Balts were then natives. Although they weren't. The natives were the Russians and the Tatars against their background. It is enough to read how free and rich they lived.