Military Review

Ukrainian ex-deputy minister: Any expert will tell you that two destroyers of the US Navy in one salvo can destroy the entire Black Sea Fleet of the Russian Federation

371

Ukrainian politicians and political scientists continue to actively discuss the maneuvers of Russian troops in the southwest direction. Recall that the RF Armed Forces carried out the transfer of two armies and several airborne units within two to three weeks as part of a sudden check of the combat readiness of the troops. At the end of the working week, Russian Defense Minister Sergei Shoigu announced the completion of this check in the country's Armed Forces.


It is noteworthy that at the time of the beginning of the movement of the Russian army in the south-west direction in Kiev, they said that "Russia is going to move troops into the territory of Ukraine", and that "NATO must help Ukraine withstand Russian aggression." And when Shoigu told the media that the check was coming to an end, Kiev announced the "victory of Ukraine" and "the frightened Putin." Western partners warned the Ukrainian side against such statements.

And on the air of one of the Ukrainian TV channels, ex-deputy of the Verkhovna Rada, ex-deputy minister "for temporarily occupied territories" Yuriy Grymchak made a statement that caused, to put it mildly, an ambiguous reaction even in the studio of Ukrainian TV.

According to Grymchak, the maneuvers of the Russian troops are "purely for internal consumption."

Former Deputy Minister of the Government of Ukraine:

Any military expert will tell you that two US Navy destroyers in one salvo can destroy the entire Black Sea Fleet (BSF) of the Russian Federation.

According to Grymchak, in the event of Russian maneuvers on the Black Sea, Ukrainian ships "just need to track the movements of each of them." This, according to a former member of the Ukrainian government, will help destroy Russian ships.

Grymchak:

Despite the might fleet USA, we must understand that no one will fight for us. Therefore, in the end, if the ships of the Russian Black Sea Fleet violate our sea borders, then we will destroy them.

According to Grymchak, "as many missiles as needed" will be used for this.

It is worth noting that in August 2019, Grymchak was detained by SBU officers on suspicion of fraud. The fight against corruption in Ukraine is carried out in such a way that now Grymchak is a frequenter of Ukrainian broadcasts, where they talk about "Russian aggression", preferring not to mention the case of the ex-deputy minister himself.
Photos used:
Facebook / destroyer Donald Cook
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  1. 501Legion
    501Legion April 24 2021 07: 36
    +56
    by the time they fire a volley, rockets from the bastions and balls will already fly at them. brown-headed
    1. The comment was deleted.
      1. cheburator
        cheburator April 24 2021 08: 25
        +2
        dumb not z'ist, choke
      2. prior
        prior April 24 2021 09: 16
        +76
        "two destroyers of the US Navy in one salvo can destroy the entire Black Sea Fleet of the Russian Federation"

        Chu.
        A salvo of even one US Navy destroyer is enough to destroy the United States. hi
        She is such a reply ...
        1. Mountain shooter
          Mountain shooter April 24 2021 09: 34
          +22
          Quote: prior
          A salvo of even one US Navy destroyer is enough to destroy the United States.

          This is to the point !!! I took it straight off my tongue. hi Therefore, they did not enter the Black Sea. It was very hot there at that moment!
          1. Alex777
            Alex777 April 24 2021 16: 11
            +7
            Yes. And you can't shoot, and you can't not shoot.
            Therefore, it is better for the destroyers to sit quietly at home. laughing
            1. Vladimir Mashkov
              Vladimir Mashkov April 24 2021 17: 21
              +8
              Another ukroDurachek - Grymchak - climbed onto the trybuna and said, "that two US Navy destroyers in one salvo can destroy the entire Black Sea Fleet (Black Sea Fleet) of the Russian Federation." Well, or the Ukrainians will manage themselves. For some reason, the swindler Grymchak believes that the Russian ships will patiently wait for their destruction! laughing laughing laughing
              1. Alex777
                Alex777 April 24 2021 17: 38
                +5
                He studied poorly at school. Can't count 2-3 steps ahead.
                1. Yuri Gulov
                  Yuri Gulov April 25 2021 12: 46
                  +5
                  He can't count at all!
                  1. Alex777
                    Alex777 April 25 2021 13: 22
                    +1
                    He can't count at all!

                    drinks
              2. Black cowl
                Black cowl April 25 2021 17: 59
                +2
                Knowing the inflated self-esteem of the pots-heads, I admit that they are sure that they are stronger than the US Army, but we cannot talk about this, they will not give dlyars.
          2. Flyer_64
            Flyer_64 April 24 2021 18: 48
            +6
            The US destroyers have an Achilles' point, they are very afraid of the Russian Su-24M. And that's it. wink
            1. ironic
              ironic April 27 2021 13: 57
              +2
              Yeah, all the sailors quit and from the word of Khibiny the US Navy falls into incapacity right up to the shores of the US itself. lol
        2. Pravodel
          Pravodel April 25 2021 14: 29
          +4
          A salvo of even one US Navy destroyer is enough to destroy the United States.

          Absolutely correct, but a little clarification: not a volley, and one missile that flew towards Russia is enough to destroy the United States along with firing destroyers ... A salvo, they will do it in hell ... We, then, will go to Paradise !!! ...
          1. 3danimal
            3danimal April 27 2021 20: 57
            0
            Do you believe in mysticism? Had experience of dealing with supernatural entities (you know, such tests are given in military registration and enlistment offices, answer "yes" and go to the PND smile ).
            In addition, the "hit" process is slow and extremely painful.
            Do you have a family at all?
    2. Tusv
      Tusv April 24 2021 07: 51
      +13
      Not well, purely hypothetically, Two Burks can. And, which is typical, posthumously. While they are with their Harpoons One-two-three-four, Onyxes one-two and a chick
      1. Tiksi-3
        Tiksi-3 April 24 2021 07: 56
        +13
        laughing lol
        Quote: Tusv
        Not well, purely hypothetically, Two Burks can

        and how many Harpoons on two berks ???
        1. Tusv
          Tusv April 24 2021 08: 06
          +15
          I'm telling you. Purely hypothetically, they can. Practically. It doesn't matter how many Harpoons. It is important that Onyx send Burke to Neptune three times faster than the harpoon reaches the interception zone
          1. Tiksi-3
            Tiksi-3 April 24 2021 08: 15
            +29
            Quote: Tusv
            Purely hypothetically, they can.

            cannot, even purely hypothetically, if we only take into account the fantastic facts that both berks are armed exclusively with harpoons (from the realm of fantasy) .... well, even here, do you know the range of the harpoon?, I think not, so they will have to go in the World Cup and go to the strike distance, and this you yourself understand and Bastion (strike on EM) and aviation and air defense of Crimea and Sevastopol and air defense of ships and electronic warfare ... it's all nonsense .... purely hypothetically, you can destroy the Pentagon with one lightning strike. ... purely hypothetical)) ??
            1. tihonmarine
              tihonmarine April 24 2021 08: 31
              +12
              Quote: Tiksi-3
              so they will have to enter the World Cup and go out to strike distance, and you yourself understand this, and Bastion (strike on EM) and the aviation and air defense of the Crimea

              This is the dream of Svidomye raguli, but the Americans have never been "kamikaze". Their style is usual "went in and looked" and as in a joke "... and with the words - glory to the heroes, threw the stew without a parachute overboard."
              1. Popov I.P.
                Popov I.P. April 26 2021 14: 19
                +2
                Americans are arrogant and arrogant guys, but not suicides and, who want to die for some kind of Ukraine, they are unlikely to find them. They are brave against a technically weak enemy and on an equal footing after the Second World War with whom they did not fight. And to contact a nuclear power, having received even a hypothetical opportunity to receive in response several megatons for the same Norfolk or Pearl Harbor - are dumb fools.
                Remember 2014, how that "Cook" entered the Black Sea and went to the Crimea, as he jerked abruptly to the side, only having detected radiation from the "Monolith" radar from the "Bastion" missile defense system. And then he also underwent an overflight of the Su-24M, the electronic warfare means of which knocked out all the electronics of the "Cook", after which a quarter of the crew refused to serve on it.
            2. Tusv
              Tusv April 24 2021 08: 49
              +5
              Quote: Tiksi-3
              cannot, even purely hypothetically, if only take into account the fantastic facts,

              And the hypothesis takes only fantastic facts. What pounced on it. Confused with Svidomit Ali did not get enough sleep? ... In reality, they will be sunk by the Onyxes after the first volley. I said it right away
              1. Alex777
                Alex777 April 24 2021 17: 47
                0
                Alas, Onyx will not reach the Aegean Sea.
                But we have 10+ "Daggers" there in the South.
                Will fly quickly, and "1 tablet is enough." bully
                And our people know about it, and US NAVY is aware of it.
                1. ironic
                  ironic April 27 2021 13: 17
                  0
                  Is this bezishodnost such as the Chinese ballistic anti-ship missiles? request
                  1. Alex777
                    Alex777 April 27 2021 16: 42
                    0
                    Is this bezishodnost such as the Chinese ballistic anti-ship missiles?

                    I would not call the Dagger a desirability.
                    Rather, it is: "fast, cheap and cheerful".
                    It has already been announced that a more perfect and compact product is being made. Including not only for the MiG-31.
                    The fact that today the United States did not start destroyers in the World Cup suits me perfectly and the Daggers played their role here. IMHO. hi
                    Shl China, in this topic, is still far from us.
                    1. ironic
                      ironic April 27 2021 17: 52
                      0
                      And I would name the ships. Iskander-M can only be fired at ships from an aircraft only out of bezishodnost.
        2. Angry
          Angry April 25 2021 10: 16
          +3
          The author apparently had in mind not a typical sea battle with the use of anti-ship missiles, but a sudden attack on the naval base of Sevastopol and Novorossiysk by SLCMs with Tomahawks. Well, yes, theoretically, if all ships are in their regular places (and this never happens) then SLCMs can theoretically destroy them. But since such objects are covered by air defense forces, taking into account the necessary density of protection, it is unlikely that even a hundred tomahawks will break through to the targets ... In addition, after that TMV. To which no one will ever go.
        3. ZAV69
          ZAV69 April 25 2021 10: 34
          +2
          Quote: Tiksi-3
          and how many Harpoons on two berks ???

          And it seems so far not a single one. And with axes they can only along the coast. Although .... We could have done something on the sly.
          1. ironic
            ironic April 27 2021 13: 21
            +1


            And this is it? Not a harpoon?
            1. ZAV69
              ZAV69 April 27 2021 18: 30
              0
              And not where to load the harpoons into the berk. So in the photo, if it is a harpoon, then they were clearly not shot from the berk.
              1. ironic
                ironic April 27 2021 19: 59
                +1
                And why is Burke in the photo? No, you didn't get enough sleep, don't you see the launcher?
      2. Mar.Tirah
        Mar.Tirah April 24 2021 08: 14
        +17
        Quote: Tusv
        Not well, purely hypothetically, Two Burks can.

        Vladimir, the stupidity was put on hold and got disadvantages. If it's serious, any ship or vessel of a potential enemy, when approaching the Russian borders, is immediately taken under observation and escort, by electronic means of observation, in order to detect and anticipate preparations for the launch of missiles and other weapons in time , as well as any other hostile actions.
        1. Tusv
          Tusv April 24 2021 08: 30
          +13
          So, what does stupidity have to do with it? People jokingly did not notice the lighthouses, as if today is Monday. So the cartoon Maslenitsa was not watched. Slepakov's song "Purely Hypothetically" was not heard. How does the hypothesis differ from the proof? And the reality is this. Berks simply will not have time to sink the KChF. Between the first and the second, Onyxes will arrive.
          1. Tiksi-3
            Tiksi-3 April 24 2021 08: 41
            +6
            Quote: Tusv
            Between the first and the second, Onyxes will arrive.

            this is the same nonsense, since you did not answer the number of Harpoons on board and the number of ships of the Black Sea Fleet .... you wanted purely HYPOTHETICALLY and nothing to do with Onyx
            1. Charik
              Charik April 25 2021 19: 03
              -1
              Some Debils from a neighboring country just want the Americans to shoot in the Black Sea Fleet, but those destroyers are clearly not fools
          2. Mar.Tirah
            Mar.Tirah April 24 2021 12: 18
            +6
            Quote: Tusv
            And the reality is this. Berks simply will not have time to sink the KChF. Between the first and the second, Onyxes will arrive.

            I agree. And not necessarily "ONYX". It all depends on the location of these ships. He turns on his radars, systems, which automatically shows his intentions. And if he does this off the Russian coast, he entails a strike to kill without warning. And everyone knows about it. So let them sing their songs for a pot-headed audience. The reality is completely different.
        2. Tusv
          Tusv April 24 2021 08: 40
          +7
          Quote: Mar. Tira
          Seriously, any ship or vessel of a potential enemy, when approaching the Russian borders, is immediately taken under observation and escort, by electronic means of observation,

          You tell RLSnick so convincingly wink hi I just told you how the hypothesis will be versus practice - Posthumously
        3. 3danimal
          3danimal April 27 2021 20: 48
          0
          Remind me, how close to the borders is to get under observation, showing through the ship?
          Let me remind you that to start the CD, you only need to enter a few commands and press / rotate a pair of buttons / keys.
      3. lucul
        lucul April 24 2021 08: 41
        +2
        Not well, purely hypothetically, Two Burks can. And, which is typical, posthumously. While they are with their Harpoons One-two-three-four, Onyxes one-two and a chick

        Even if we assume the most ideal option for amers - two Arleigh Burks are armed with 112 Tomahawks of the newest version of Block-5 (universal), which can hit ships, then there is nothing special for the amers.
        If my memory serves me, the time between Tomahawk launches is at least 1 minute. And at the very first launch of the rocket (after calculating its trajectory to the target), the destroyer will be attacked. So the maximum that Berks can release is a total of 10 Tomahawks before they are destroyed. This is if the destroyers are located in the Black Sea. If they hit from the Mediterranean Sea, then it is more difficult, of course, but also solvable.
        Our new frigates, such as Gorshkov, will defend themselves, even in the open sea, its missiles on board will be enough to take over all Burke's ammunition. And the rest of the ships in the port (corvettes and below) are reliably covered from the attack of the air defense of Sevastopol.
        So in all cases - Burkam does not shine.
        1. atalef
          atalef April 24 2021 08: 51
          +3
          Quote: lucul
          If my memory serves me, the time between Tomahawk launches is at least 1 minute. And at the very first start of the rocket (after calculating its trajectory to the target), the destroyer will be attacked

          not a fact
          Quote: lucul
          So the maximum that Berks can release is a total of 10 Tomahawks before they are destroyed.

          That is, in 5 minutes they will be like destroyed?
          You are a dreamer
          Quote: lucul
          Our new frigates like Gorshkov will defend themselves

          there are only 2 of them and both are in the Northern Fleet
          laughing

          Quote: lucul
          And the rest of the ships in the port (corvettes and below) are reliably covered by the air defense of Sevastopol.

          How do you know? You and Burke are destroyed in 5 minutes (what?)
          and the pots protect themselves from the White Sea
          and air defense of Sevastopol.
          Expert good
          1. lucul
            lucul April 24 2021 09: 00
            +1
            not a fact

            Already a fact.
            That is, in 5 minutes they will be like destroyed?
            You are a dreamer

            Bastions are effective weapons.
            How do you know ?

            That the wind blows, the fire burns?
            "It's obvious", "the whole world knows it")))
            Expert

            You are a real connoisseur as I can see)))
            1. Leontrotsky
              Leontrotsky April 24 2021 21: 30
              +4
              Well, to begin with, the anti-ship variant of the Block5 shoots just a little further than the harpoon. That is, in order to attack the Black Sea Fleet, destroyers will have to enter this very Black Sea. And it is shot from edge to edge with Bastions and Daggers, if necessary (let me remind you that the MiG-31K is based in the Crimea, as well as in the polar one). From the water area of ​​the Aegean Sea, it is possible to shoot only at the infrastructure of the Black Sea Fleet, neither the NK, nor, especially the VKS, will be affected. And the shooting at the infrastructure of the Russian Black Sea Fleet, according to the Russian military doctrine, to remind what threatens the Washington regional committee itself?)))
              1. lucul
                lucul April 24 2021 22: 06
                -1
                Well, to begin with, the anti-ship variant of the Block5 shoots just a little further than the harpoon.

                I did not find such information, but oh well. The main thing is that with the advent of Caliber, we have removed a serious trump card from the Amers.
                1. Leontrotsky
                  Leontrotsky April 24 2021 22: 34
                  +4
                  So I'll tell you about it. Firstly, tomahawks fly at a low altitude (as a rule, tens of meters above sea level, and, sometimes, even lower). In this case, they are harder to detect by means of NK air defense ... but there is also a downside. The tomahawk, being at such a low altitude (we are discussing the use of tomahawks for mobile sea targets), has radio zones of several miles. Let me remind you that ONIKS, in front of the final part of the trajectory, where it descends, has an altitude of 10-11 km and from there its seeker can detect a destroyer at a distance of 50-60 miles, a cruiser 75 miles, an airplane even further. The Kh-32 generally flies at an altitude of 40 km (hence the almost hypersonic speed of this product) and the radio horizon is appropriate. This is what I mean, if the anti-ship missile has a low flight altitude (and this is how all tomahawks and harpoons work), then it makes no sense to send them to a long range. Because in low layers of the atmosphere (and even near the sea with high humidity), the resistance to flight increases sharply, and friction increases, which means that the hypersonic product will simply burn out at low altitudes. So the speed of the tomahawk is 990 km / h. Let's say they were shmallowed from 1000 km. It will fly to the target for more than an hour. During this time, the NK with a course of 20-25 knots will move away from the aiming point by 40-45 km, while the radio horizon is near the tomahawks, due to the low altitude, several miles. And then in good weather and a little excitement.
                  Moreover, Americans in the early 80s tried to solve this problem. One of the tomahawk varieties could patrol in zigzags in a certain area (in case of loss of target), but in this case allied transport could suffer, for example, which does not have a "friend or foe" notification. And still, the effectiveness of re-reaching the target was too low. Therefore, such tomahawks were abandoned. And a distance of 300 km, the same harpoon will fly in 20 minutes. And theoretically, the NK will move 10-15 kilometers and there will be a chance to visit him.
                  1. ironic
                    ironic April 25 2021 18: 41
                    -1
                    Axes block 4, upgrade 1 and block 5 are equipped with a seeker directly designed to destroy moving surface targets from a long distance, receiving general target designation and further independent search with an exit to the target area. The problem was solved during the development of LRASM and then, by analogy, solutions were created for missiles already in service. The release of the corresponding units 5 and modernization 4 began in the 20th and continued in the 21st year. Funded for another year in advance.
                    1. lucul
                      lucul April 25 2021 18: 54
                      +1
                      from a long distance, receiving general target designation and further independent search with access to the target area

                      General target designation may not exist))))
                      1. ironic
                        ironic April 25 2021 19: 09
                        -1
                        Who has this? Are the ships of the AUG compound? You made fun of it, yes. lol
                      2. lucul
                        lucul April 25 2021 19: 11
                        +1
                        Who has this? Are the ships of the AUG compound? You made fun of it, yes.

                        What is the target designation range of the AUG? )))))
                      3. ironic
                        ironic April 25 2021 19: 26
                        0
                        Hockey 2C is capable of target designation> 500 km. I suspect that there will be more 2D capabilities.
                      4. lucul
                        lucul April 25 2021 19: 41
                        -4
                        Hockey 2C is capable of target designation> 500 km. I suspect that there will be more 2D capabilities.

                        Has he got a new generator? The detection range directly depends on the radar power, and it depends on the power developed by the generator, and the generator power depends on the engine power.))))
                        Even the RQ-4 Hawk gives out steady target designation up to 300 km.
                        And Hokai has no more than 300 km, and for this he needs to get 300 km closer to the goal. And this is taking into account the fact that the missile range of the S-400 is 400 km)))
                      5. ironic
                        ironic April 26 2021 19: 55
                        -1
                        / / / /
                        he E-2D comes with many new features installed, including the Lockheed Martin AN / APY-9 Airborne Early Warning Radar, which provides both mechanical and electronic scanning capabilities. The AN / APY-9 can detect smaller targets (and more of them) at a greater range. The E-2D's radar and identification friend or foe (IFF) system can detect targets at ranges in excess of 345 miles (556 km).
                        / / / /
                        Don't make up a gag. And where did you see the C-400 at sea?
                      6. lucul
                        lucul April 26 2021 20: 16
                        +2
                        Don't make up a gag.

                        Read thoughtfully)))
                        For Khokai, the maximum flight altitude is 9 m, and at this altitude the radio horizon is 000 km)))
                        The E-2D's radar and identification friend or foe (IFF) system can detect targets at ranges in excess of 345 miles (556 km).

                        This is for a high-altitude air target)))
                      7. ironic
                        ironic April 26 2021 20: 36
                        0
                        Consider more accurate. 390 km and at the same time the target can be low-flying and its radio visibility will exceed 400 km. Onyx is clearly not at a low altitude at such a distance. Caliber - I don't know. But even 400 km is quite enough for a warning.
                      8. lucul
                        lucul April 26 2021 20: 39
                        +1
                        390, to be more precise, and at the same time the target can be low-flying and its radio visibility will exceed 400 km.

                        The conversation is about the LAND target on the territory of Donbass for the Tomahawk, and for this Hokai must approach at least 300 km to the border of Donbass)))
                      9. ironic
                        ironic April 26 2021 20: 46
                        +1
                        There was no talk about firing at ships. For target designation in Donbass, an F-35A can also take off from some Romanian airfield. And look for his fistulas even with 400 radars. wink
                      10. lucul
                        lucul April 26 2021 21: 43
                        -1
                        There was no talk about firing at ships. For target designation in Donbass, an F-35A can also take off from some Romanian airfield. And look for his fistulas even with 400 radars

                        So the F-35 has a weaker radar than the Hawkeye)))
                      11. ironic
                        ironic April 26 2021 21: 46
                        0
                        But stealth is much higher and anti-radar missiles in ammunition.
                      12. lucul
                        lucul April 26 2021 21: 57
                        0
                        But stealth is much higher and anti-radar missiles in ammunition.

                        Compared to Hockey, yes, but the radar is just as worse)))
                      13. ironic
                        ironic April 27 2021 13: 24
                        0
                        And they do not need the same detection range, but they have better detection resolution. By the way, they are relevant.
  • Charik
    Charik April 25 2021 19: 08
    0
    come on tambourines like axes with harpoons defeat the RF, fabulous to ... guess yourself
    1. ironic
      ironic April 25 2021 19: 13
      -1
      And they are still winning technically, it's not hard to see, if you are not blind, but in practice, I hope it will not come. A big war is definitely not included in my ideological range. I'm a man, not a flayer. The fabulous you will not guess who you are, because this is not given to you from above, they cheat when they want to punish a person, they draw a line over his head.
  • Leontrotsky
    Leontrotsky April 26 2021 19: 19
    +2
    Throw off the link please. I am primarily interested in the NK range. With the speed that a tomahawk has, using it at long ranges is simply ridiculous. I suspect its range is not much more harpoon.
    1. ironic
      ironic April 26 2021 20: 02
      0
      1000 miles declared operational range of Ax block 5. Air version and LRASM - 900 km. Is the difference essential for finding a target? I don’t think so. Harpoon in the new version 320 km.
    2. Leontrotsky
      Leontrotsky April 26 2021 20: 48
      +2
      The difference is very important. First, LRASM is not hypersound. secondly, as a breakthrough, the Americans just taught 158 ​​to "hunt in a flock", which Onyxes always knew how, and Granites, their predecessors, knew how to do it back in the late 80s. decades, and the Americans are just beginning. As for the axes, long-range anti-ship missiles are effective only when the flight time is no more than 20-25 minutes. During this time, the NK at 20 knots, for example, will go 10 miles, those almost 20 km. And since the directionality of the seeker is very narrow (because, given the dimensions of the anti-ship missile itself, such a radar, which is installed, for example, on the same aircraft, cannot be accommodated there), this is a critical value. As a rule, the angle of the diagram on which effective target detection is carried out is about 10 degrees. And if the same NK went beyond this angle - the distance at which it can be detected - it is reduced by half or three times. And here we are dealing with 1000 miles. How many 1700 km will the ax fly? almost two hours? NK will pass 80 km during this time. And maybe more. ONYX flies to the target for 20 minutes and then it is preferable to use it in a group. Because in the event of a target leaving, they can cover a large area when searching for a target, while the Ax cannot carry out a collective search. The only chance it has is the optical channel and guidance along it. But here it must be borne in mind that the range of 1000 miles, in conditions of interference and remoteness of the carrier, the effectiveness of the ax will be close to zero. At one time such technology was used on Basalts. But time has shown that it is ineffective. Now the main trend-shot-forgotten, and the anti-ship missiles themselves must detect and hit everything. In a military conflict, the personnel will be full of other concerns (for example, the defense of their NK from the anti-ship missiles) than to direct each ax through an optical channel. This, alas, is an anachronism.
    3. ironic
      ironic April 26 2021 22: 07
      0
      And who is hypersound? Zircon? Is he already in service? It is not yet clear what kind of animal it is. This flock was given to you. LRASM is most interesting for its exceptional stealth and ability to independently choose the direction and angle of the attack. People wrote the same thing, testing of this flock was in the USSR for two missiles and the only time without electronic warfare countermeasures. Who told you that RCC is only effective for 20 minutes? In an hour, how much can you go to the side at 60 km / h (at the speed limit of a modern destroyer / frigate)? 60 km? This is not too much even for the latest version of Harpoon. Today, the Americans have already achieved the necessary search and target designation algorithms for many hundreds of kilometers, followed by tracking and recognizing target signatures using the missile's seeker. LRASM, in your opinion, how does it find a target from such a launch distance from an aircraft (maximum launch range 900 km)? Not optically, never. In order to effectively and efficiently interfere, you need to know that something is flying towards you. Axes block 5 and LRASM are highly anti-jamming devices, no matter what kind of interference you can knock them down. And the control of the attack in the United States has long been complex and the exchange of data is going on between everyone. There are also carrier ships and satellites and DLRO and AUG patrol aircraft and other aviation in the zone and missiles that have reached target designation. It's not even a pack, but a pack of everyone. The Russian Federation does not have such deployed funds either in terms of quantity or performance characteristics, so the rate is placed on the speed of the rocket and the power of the warhead of even one hit.
    4. Leontrotsky
      Leontrotsky April 26 2021 23: 57
      +3
      Zircon is about to be in service. But now the dagger and the MIG-31K are available, its carriers are based, including in the Crimea (although not only). Almost hypersound X-32. Speed ​​up to Mach 4,6. As for the angle of attack, Onyx has been able to do this for a long time. He not only, upon detecting a target, analyzes the type of order and, accordingly, selects the main target for the attack, determines the types of ships in this order from the RE portrait, distributes targets when attacking by several Onyx orders, but also in the final section, knowing which NK is going makes an anti-missile maneuver (hill) and is capable of hitting the same destroyer in the most vulnerable place. So Onyx is already two decades old)) All modern anti-ship missiles are hardly noticeable, their RCS is in the region of 0,1-0,2 m. It's not about the distance. Once again, you didn't hear. The anti-ship missile radar has a very sharp directional diagram (see them in the internet there is material on this topic). If the target is straight ahead, then Onyx from a height of 10 km "sees" an NK with a displacement of 4500 tons per 50 km, a destroyer (8000-9000 tons) at 70-75 km, an aircraft carrier (80 tons) -... decide for yourself. Let me remind you that most of the NK Black Sea Fleet-MRK with a displacement of about 000 tons. That is, right along the course of the MRK it will become noticeable for the anti-ship missile ship in 1000-20 kilometers (and this is for flying at an altitude of 30 km, like Onyx !!!). It is worth deviating from the diagram for the NK, at least by 10 degrees, its visibility for this anti-ship missile drops to almost zero. And your tomahawk flies over the sea surface. And its radio horizon is 10-5 miles in good weather. What will he be looking for 10 km away? Needle in a haystack? In the early 60s, similar tomahawks were hanging around the area and removed from service after they nearly sunk a couple of transports that did not have a friend or foe identification system. As for the optical range, this is the main feature of those tomahawks about which you spoke. And the only opportunity, having flown 80 hours, at least get somewhere, in the hope that the operator on the carrier will guide her. He himself will in no way find a target that has moved 2 km away from such an altitude. And having flown already at the maximum distance, and the fuel will remain with a gulkin's nose for maneuvers. That is why the Americans used the 60 km harpoon. Because this is the limit for an anti-ship missile flying above water and at the speed of a passenger airliner (that is, the notorious 300 minutes, the same amount for how much the X-20 will fly 32 km). Then yes, the head of the target of the GOS anti-ship missile system is more or less possible. All anti-ship missiles are now immune to interference. And 1000 LRASM has not only that the cost is mind-boggling (which is why the Americans are betting on tomahawks), but most importantly "hatchet speed" (((With all the consequences stated above.
    5. 3danimal
      3danimal April 27 2021 01: 57
      +2
      All modern anti-ship missiles are hardly noticeable, their RCS is around 0,1-0,2 m.

      Look at the LRASM and Onyx (and its corner reflector in the nose)
      and say that they are both subtle smile



      And 158 LRASM has not only that the cost is mind-boggling

      So the budget is more than ours by a mind-boggling 15+ times.
      If the target is straight ahead, then Onyx from an altitude of 10 km "sees" an NK with a displacement of 4500 tons per 50 km, a destroyer (8000-9000 tons) at 70-75 km

      The declared range is 50 km, but the type of ship is not indicated.
      If we assume that the RCS of a destroyer is 2-3 times larger than a frigate (and at 50 km, the seeker “sees” a modern frigate), then the detection range will increase by only 1,19-1,31 times (root of the 4th degree), up to 60- 65km.
    6. Leontrotsky
      Leontrotsky April 27 2021 08: 57
      +3
      I will say that before, both missiles are inconspicuous. Of course, the AGM158 will have a lower RCS, but the Onyx shape will not triple its RCS. As for the corner reflector, it is a strong exaggeration, but it will also take into account the fact that all modern anti-ship missiles are covered with radio-absorbing materials. And if you like, let Onyx have EPR-0,2, and AGM-0,1. This handicap is quite possible to give, because the speed of 158 negates almost all of its advantages.
      Regarding the detection range of the target by Onyx. Repeatedly, in different sources, I have come across references to the detection range of the ONYX seeker, depending on the displacement of the ship. And to be convinced of this, it is enough to include elementary logic. You just talked about the EPR of Onyx and 158 and gave their appearance. They said that AGM is less noticeable (with which I agree). Why do you deny such a property to NK? Or, according to your MRK with a displacement of 1000 tons, it will be visible on the radar screens in the same way as an aircraft carrier of 80 tons?)))) Excuse me, but here the contrast is even greater than between Onyx and AGM and the laws of radio wave reflection are the same)))
      Amer's budget is more than ours. But, you forget that the Americans maintain about 1000 bases around the world, plus 10 AUG-aeto unreasonable money, and this is what most of the Pentagon's budget (including salaries, social benefits and other types of allowances for military personnel) is spent on rearmament and development new types of weapons remain quite comparable magnitudes. This is not my idea)) Read the statements of the amerskih admirals themselves. And practice shows this. Hypersound that appeared in Russia, and not in the states, despite all their budgets)
    7. ironic
      ironic April 27 2021 13: 16
      0
      Onyx is unobtrusive as "in the French ski bath" (C). These are your Wishlist on account of the difference in EPR. And Onyx does not even approximately have a target signature recognition system that LRASM has, in fact, not a single missile in the world has yet. Perhaps, except that the same operating time is inserted into the Axes block 5, but this is the same operating time. Avik has a slight advantage over RTOs, it is surrounded by a warrant with developed air defense. And RTOs do not even know what they were shooting at. So far, the only fundamentally new hypersound in service with the Russian Federation can be called the strategic glider Avangard, but it actually glides along the border of the atmosphere. Actually, the Kh-37 can be considered the same hypersonic, with the difference that it is an autonomous drone, not a warhead.
    8. Leontrotsky
      Leontrotsky April 29 2021 18: 52
      +2
      These are not my wishlist, but the properties of all modern anti-ship missiles. Study the materiel. As for the signatures of targets, all modern anti-ship missiles are able to recognize them; in peacetime, it is not for nothing that a reconnaissance aircraft circles around a more or less significant warship. What is he collecting? He creates an electronic portret of this carrier, which will then be introduced into the GOS. I will disappoint you. The GOS PKR and Onyx, including, can not only recognize the target by its electronic image, but also analyze the order in which the NK goes and, depending on whether it is a transport order or an AUG order), classify the most important purpose of the order, and this is not enough, the RCC Onyx distributes these targets to separate CDs in case Onyx attacks as part of a volley. And just LRASM learned to do the same (I mean collective attack) in the latest modifications. And in Russia they knew how to do it back in the days of the USSR -Granites. The PKR in the USSR has always been given increased attention, because in the 70s and 60s and in the 80s, the task was to combat the AUG. And that is why the anti-ship missiles of the Russian Federation are ahead of those of the United States in their development, both in range and speed, and in the variability of attacking actions. To begin with, the vanguard is a ballistic missile unit, while we are talking about cruise missiles. In the Russian Federation, there is the Kh-32, which is in service with the TU-22m3 and has a flight speed on the verge of hypersonic Mach 4,5 and a range of 1000 km. There is already a hypersonic dagger (8max and 1000 km range), launched from the MiG-31k, which has been on combat duty in the polar and Crimea for two years. So there is hypersound in the RF Armed Forces both in the anti-ship missile environment and in the BR. Well, Onyx is a classic, of course. In the internet, by the way, there is a lot of information on this topic, just read more serious publications like "National Defense".
    9. ironic
      ironic April 29 2021 19: 27
      0
      You do not know what materiel is. The i486 also has an ALU. That's just not close to the operational capabilities of the Heon. Everything else is common knowledge. What LRASM learned to do, in the 80s they did not even know how to formulate it in the form of a task, let alone implement it. Firing up a flying convoy full of fuel is not an achievement. To accelerate it to the speed at which the whole ocean learns about it from the first minutes of the flight, this is also not a great merit. especially if the electronic warfare is able to send it to Gd not knowing which directions of flight. Therefore, today no one is particularly afraid of an attack, either an attack from Granit or X-22. And therefore, in the west, these options were not even developed and will not be even at the level of developments in the future. The Kh-32 is not in service with the M3 because it does not even know how to talk to it, only the M3M. 4.6M is its maximum achievable speed, not average. On the trajectory, it moves with speeds in the range of 3.2-4.5M, and hypersound starts at 5M. The dagger is hypersonic only in the practically transatmospheric phase of the flight. Those. such aerobalistic missiles and MRBMs existed before and no one considered them hypersonic. Those. except for the Vanguard and theoretically Zircon, which is not yet clear what kind of bird, there are no real hypersonic missiles that are fundamentally different from those that existed before. And the internet is full of information on this topic, including in English, with no extra layers of patriotic information.
    10. Leontrotsky
      Leontrotsky April 30 2021 00: 28
      +2
      Well then. dear, I'll have to lead you with a face about the table.))) Ready? I give a link to an article on the X-32 and the history of its creation-https: //dfnc.ru/c106-technika/chto-predstavlyaet-soboj-novaya-protivokorabelnaya-krylataya-raketa-h-32/ And from this article, specially I give a selection for you. The first strike on the face-on the X-32 carriers - "According to the information available in open sources, in 2014, the serial production of new missiles began, and at the end of 2016, the X-32 was officially put into service. The Kh-32 will be carried by modernized Tu-22M3M bombers. Obviously, one of the main aspects of the modernization of the Tu-22M3 is to replace the complex of onboard radio-electronic equipment and "adapt" it to the use of a new missile. It is worth noting that in the Soviet Union, in fact, for each new aviation cruise missile, a new modification of the bomber was created, and the bombers together with the missile made up the so-called. "shock complex". At the moment, it is known about at least 10 Tu-22M3 bombers that have undergone modernization. All in all, by 2020, it is planned to modernize the entire Tu-22M3 fleet - in the "active composition" of the Russian Aerospace Forces there are slightly more than 40 of them. " Is the meaning clear?))) For 2017, when this article was written, 10 TU22M3 HAS ALREADY BEEN MODERNIZED. Not up to the TU22m3m level, but up to the level allowing the use of the X-32. Substitute the second cheek - a slap in the face - "The X-32 uses a significantly improved starter and main engine. The starting engine now allows you to "lift" the rocket after launch to an altitude of about 40 (!) Kilometers. At this altitude, the air density is about the same as the density of the Martian atmosphere and the rocket practically does not encounter air resistance, which makes it possible to dramatically increase both the speed and range of flight. Apparently, it was possible to increase the thrust of the main engine. Reportedly, the speed of the X-32 has increased to 5400 km / h - more than 5M! "This is about the speed of the X-32))))) Not enough ??? Here's another for you))) -" But the main difference between the X-32 and its predecessor is a new guidance system, made on a modern element base. The rocket reportedly has a new INS and an active homing head. Apparently, the GOS X-32 belongs to the latest generation GOS and is not inferior in noise immunity and "intelligence" of the GOS of the Onyx anti-ship missile system. Most likely, the GOS X-32 implements all modern methods of ensuring noise immunity, such as, for example, frequency tuning from pulse to pulse according to a random law. The X-32 is launched into the area of ​​the known location of the target and the main part of the flight follows the data of the INS and after reaching the set point, it switches on the active seeker and searches for the target and aims at it. It is worth noting that back in the 1980s, a homing system was installed on the Granit anti-ship missile system, which made it possible to search for targets by the radiation of shipborne radars. And since the 1980s, all modern anti-ship missiles have a mode of aiming at the source of interference in the event of suppression of the seeker by means of electronic warfare. There is hardly any doubt that all of the above capabilities are implemented in the GOS X-32. Also, according to available data, the Kh-32 can be used to destroy large ground targets. Probably, we are talking about large area or large radio contrast targets. "
    11. ironic
      ironic April 30 2021 12: 35
      -2
      Understood, another bravura article in Russian that is not reflected in the information in other languages ​​outside the Russian Federation. Symptomatic. wink
    12. Leontrotsky
      Leontrotsky April 30 2021 14: 56
      +3
      But in other languages ​​there are interesting tales about the Skripals and about how they poisoned Lesha Navalny with fighting poisoning, so much so that he remained alive after the Skripals)) Or comics about the adventures of Petrov and Boshirov in 2014))) Or true stories about Sochi plumbers who are able to penetrate, by hammering, into an isolated room, replace samples there and close up the hole through which they penetrated (including from the inside) so that the simpletons from Wada did not even notice it))) My advice to you is that you better read similar information and the dream will be stronger and the consequences are not the same ... when the real X-32 arrives)))))
  • Leontrotsky
    Leontrotsky April 30 2021 00: 41
    +2
    As for hypersound itself, first of all, have a conscience. I did not say that the Kh-32 is hypersonic. I said she was on the verge of hypersound. Hypersound is achievable only at altitudes over 10 km. Which is understandable, because there is less air resistance. At the surface of the sea (where various rubbish flies, like axes at the speed of Erbaso), you can't really accelerate. Humidity, air resistance, not without reason even Onyx, at the end of the trajectory reduces the speed to Mach 1,6-1,9. In other words, hypersound is unattainable at low altitudes, at this stage of technical development, at least, because the RCC will burn up in this case, like a meteorite in the earth's atmosphere. Here's a little quote - "The X-32 uses a significantly improved starting and sustainer engine. The starting engine now allows you to "lift" the rocket after launch to an altitude of about 40 (!) Kilometers. At such an altitude, the air density is about the same as the density of the Martian atmosphere and the rocket practically does not encounter air resistance, which makes it possible to dramatically increase both the speed and the flight range ... At the same time, most of the X-32 flight takes place at an altitude unattainable for any anti-aircraft missiles. For example, for the most advanced anti-aircraft guided missile (SAM) of the US Navy SM-6, the maximum interception height is 33 kilometers. At the same time, at such an interception height, the boundary of the affected area decreases sharply, and the missile practically loses its ability to maneuver - the anti-aircraft missile simply "fizzles out" (since most of the flight flies by inertia), and given that the American SAM family "Standard" have aerodynamic rudders, any effective maneuvering required to intercept such a complex target is simply impossible. It is possible to try to shoot down the Kh-32 only after it begins to dive towards the target, however, in this case, intercepting a missile rushing at a speed of more than 5M is an extremely difficult task even for the most advanced air defense systems. One can often come across an assertion that the American SM-32 anti-missile missile can "get" the X-3. However, this statement is absurd. SM-3 is designed exclusively for intercepting ballistic missiles, for which the so-called. exoatmospheric kinetic interceptor. This is a kinetic interceptor, which is a small homing device with a matrix thermal homing head, a control module and shunting micromotors. As its name suggests, it is designed to intercept ballistic missile warheads outside the atmosphere. At the moment, the minimum target hitting altitude with this kinetic interceptor is 90 kilometers, and cannot be used for aerodynamic targets such as the X-32 SM-3. " link to source-https: //dfnc.ru/c106-technika/chto-predstavlyaet-soboj-novaya-protivokorabelnaya-krylataya-raketa-h-32/ About GSN X-32 is also mentioned in this article. Read what smart people write, not those English magazines that are praised by Patriots who are unable to protect even oil wells. By the way, did you name the zircons by what? Yes, they are not yet in service. But with the same reason, I will name your AGM158 in the same way. )) What it is like in real work is still absolutely unknown.
  • ironic
    ironic April 30 2021 13: 11
    -2
    This is written by people who need to write patriotic and reprinted information. The Patriot complex is not an optimal missile defense system, therefore in Israel it is used only as an air defense system, where it has proven itself very well. The third stage of SM-3 is separated by 56 km, which makes it possible to turn on the target search engine right in this section and not to launch the kinetic interceptor into higher orbits. But your smart people pretend not to know about it. The Kh-5 does not have any 32M in a dive, and of course there is no maneuvering in the section, which makes it a legitimate target for the SM-6 and everything that gives it speed can be realized only with a massive missile attack in the expectation that the rocket that has broken through has already will not be stopped by anyone due to lack of time. And now there is nothing to realize this mass character.
  • Leontrotsky
    Leontrotsky April 30 2021 14: 43
    +2
    This is a solid publication, in contrast to your unsubstantiated and empty chatter))) The typical logic of a Ukrainian - that does not fit into their wretched worldview - simply does not exist))) My friend, the one who believes in the origin of the great ukrov from Abraham and that, that TU22m3 shoots only with cobs of corn, when it comes into contact with reality, severe disappointment will await))) The same thing, by the way, is written by "National Defense", if you want to look there for information about the X-32. They smiled about SM3. Once again, you had a link, but it looks like the words passed you by. SM3 is designed for the removal of ballistic missiles from the trajectory)) The difference between the CD and the BR, I hope you understand? The ballistic missile flies along a ballistic trajectory, displacement from it is possible either due to the disengagement panel (the engines are additionally working there), or, as in the case of the avant-garde, the block itself plans. This I mean that the ability to maneuver SM3 does not have ... he has a word at all. This is not necessary when it is necessary to remove the warhead from the ballista in a rarefied space. You just need to modify the engines a bit and you will go to the same ballista. Overloads, due to maneuvers, are also not obliged to withstand such an anti-missile missile. the ability to maneuver and the ability to withstand overloads so as not to fall apart during maneuvers. The SM32 does not have any of this at all, yes, it does not need it to remove the BR.))
    "The X-5 does not have any 32M in diving and there is no maneuvering on the site of course" -))))))) Of course, you all know better than the general designers and genders who produce such a product, and comrades like Korotchenko who are cooked in this thread for a long time))) And I will tell you something else - as a rule, the performance characteristics of products that are underestimated in comparison with the fact that these products can really get into the public domain. So that at the right time there are more surprises "for partners". So I think that even 5 swings is not the limit, which is logical. After a slide from a height of 40 km, the Kh-32 can only pick up speed, because the force of gravity comes to the rescue, which had to be fought on the trajectory. )))
    As for the massiveness of the volley, there are no secrets here either, to cause serious damage to the AUG, a volley of 10 X-32, that is, five Tu-22m3, is enough. What can we say about the two battered destroyers? A salvo is needed for tomahawks, which will fly so much that all air defense systems will be made long ago. And the X-32 and the same daggers, and a couple of years later, there is still nothing to shoot down the amers with zircons.
    Are the Patriots good as an air defense system?)))) And I will add so good that homemade drones quietly ruined the oil refinery under their protection))))
  • ironic
    ironic April 30 2021 15: 08
    0
    Actually, I'm an Israeli, and this is typical ukrobathert, and yours. Reprints are issued by reputable editions, and it is patriotic, and by this they are respectable. And the evidence is clearly visible in the photo, by the color of the missiles and the repeating number of the specimen of their carrier. What is not supported by computer science in English, I question, there are more than good reasons. CM-3 has no maneuvering? It really smiled, when was the last time you looked at the technical description of the head of a kinetic interceptor? This is on the course of the X-32 is almost on a given trojectory, which makes it akin to the MRBM target. Of course, I know that in the atmosphere the X-32 will start to burn at a speed of 5M and there can be no question of finding a target there. This is physics. And you once again refer to the constructors who, in your opinion, are inventing alternative physics. Yeah, she will pick up speed to search and aim in the atmosphere to hypersound ...
    Well, yes, 5, which exist for national patriotism, and this is enough for the AUG covered by 2-4 Berks and a couple of Ticonderogs, as well as duty units in the air carrying large-radius missiles. Well uryakalka credits course.
    Shoot down zircons? Which aren't there yet? Well, this is even more urya-like. A patriot on drones? It's also stupid. It's good that in Israel they don't think of such a thing and drones with Apaches are kicking around. But the Syrian Sukhoi was removed with the help of the PAC2 with one missile.
  • Leontrotsky
    Leontrotsky 2 May 2021 01: 45
    +2
    Alas, on this we disagree. I don’t give a penny to the English-language press. firstly, it is engaged, in my opinion, and in the direction of the channel from the main stream does not take a step.))) But something else amazes me. The fact that you, apparently, do not see the difference in the trajectory of movement of the BR and the CD. BR starts. drops the first stage and then the breeding panel, or the bus in common parlance, comes into play. What is its essence. the fact is that knowing the start time and the ascent height, the trajectory of the BR (and it flies along the ballista) is easily calculated. And accordingly, it is possible, both on the approach and on the trajectory, to calculate at what point of the ballista at a particular moment in time it will be. The breeding panel complicates this task. Having engines on board and being in a rarefied space, the bus takes the warheads away from the calculated trajectory and places them at those points that, having formed new trajectories, will ensure the approach to the target and its defeat. This significantly complicates the task of missile defense. Since even a displacement of several tens of meters from the initial ballista can bring the warhead to a point a hundred kilometers different from the calculated one. That is, after "placing" the warheads in their places, they basically do not maneuver and fly over the ballista. Therefore, the interceptor missile makes no sense in some kind of mind-blowing maneuvers, you just need to go to the ballista of the warhead. Sorry for telling the obvious things. And this is fundamentally different, for example, from shooting the X-32 at the final stage of maneuvering, when it makes a slide. ... Here, the anti-missile must withstand colossal overloads, have a speed comparable to anti-ship missiles and, accordingly, have a mechanism that allows you to effectively maneuver. If the speeds are incomparable ... try to bump your bike into a car on a large area, traveling at a speed of even 60 km / h towards you. You will not succeed. For you will simply be eaten. No matter how you maneuver. An example is rough, but clarifying the essence. Besides, if an anti-ship missile flying on Mach 5 only needs to move its wing slightly and change the direction of movement, the task becomes much more complicated. For you need to track the change in the nature of its movement, coordinate the movement of the anti-missile ... and here one lost second means one thing - the anti-ship missile system has already swept past you. And speaking of SM3, this is what National Defense writes for example - “Such a speed made it possible to count on the fact that SM-3 Block 2A would be able to intercept ballistic missiles on the ascending (before the start of warhead disengagement) and descending sections of the trajectory, at ranges of up to 1000 km and heights of 70-500 km. In turn, the increase in the size of the rocket led to its weighting almost one and a half times (according to estimates, up to 2-2,3 tons) and the need to make a number of decisions on its adaptation on carrier ships.
    The total cost of developing this missile was estimated at $ 3,1 billion (and the cost of its first samples was $ 37 million). "That is, it is directly stated that the topic is cm3 ballistic missiles. Altitudes are higher than 70 km (by the way, the lowest figure that I have seen, usually not lower than 100 km) Well, do you believe the English press? Throw me a link to the source, which claims that cm3 is capable of operating on anti-ship missiles at altitudes up to 50 km.
  • ironic
    ironic 2 May 2021 12: 36
    -2
    I do not have time to analyze your entire sheet, I will dwell on only a few things.

    I will not dispute the fact that in the English-speaking press there is both a monetary interest and political engagement, but if you are not able to see how the Russian-speaking army of rented publications is prohibitively engaged by the pilots and military leadership, your very penny is really not worth much.

    I know the differences between BR and KR and what a ballistic three-way tour is and what a bus with a warhead is. But such missiles as the Kh-22 and Kh-32, due to their speed indicators on an empty and non-ballistic flight path, do not have any particular advantages over the interception system, over ballistic means, their trajectory is practically unchanged for most of the way. The bus does not deliver the warheads to the points, as you imagine, but brings the warheads to the appropriate separation point and separates them, after which they acquire an individual ballistic triplet. Everything else is from the field of the next alternative physicists and shrieks for the sake of patriotism.

    Your ideas about the maneuvering of the interceptor's kinetic unit are simply dispelled by the appearance of this unit, not to mention the open information about its technique and how much it surpasses in its ability to transfer longitudinal and lateral overloads in comparison with any attacking missile launcher or warhead.

    Sorry that you are telling the obvious, in your opinion, things, instead, are talking obvious biased patriotic nonsense. The Kh-32 does not actually carry out a slide, but by correcting the direction to the target found in the final section, diving into the atmosphere with a simultaneous loss of speed. Antimissiles are capable of withstanding longitudinal overloads of 60-70G, and transverse overloads of 15-10G. None of the MRBMs or supersonic cruise missiles can withstand anything of the kind. If you do not know this, this is your problem, but not someone's. Different defenders write what they need to write, and the fact is that the missiles are on ships at sea and can be launched at any ballistic target within their reach, another thing is that this reach can not be achieved in all sectors of the ICBM triples. and MRBM at all. The fact that the 3rd stage of SM-3 is separated at an altitude of ~ 56 km is public information. Another thing is that in a standard situation, it accelerates the interceptor to higher layers, depending on the type of target, but it can separate the interceptor right at this height, because this is at the level of the software command for the 3rd stage. And Mk-41 has three versions in length, the "deepest" one perfectly accommodates all types of missiles, both cruise and air defense. This is also publicly available information, all alterations at the level of sofra and control systems, but this sounds unpatriotic.
  • Leontrotsky
    Leontrotsky 2 May 2021 14: 53
    +2
    "The bus does not deliver the warheads to the points, as you imagine it, but brings the warheads to the appropriate separation point and separates them, after which they acquire an individual ballistic trijectory.")))
    And the difference is, don't tell me. The bus is moving along with the warheads. And brings it to the appropriate point where it drops. And then the warhead moves on its own along the ballista with its own characteristics.)))
    As for the roller coaster, excuse me, but I prefer to trust the experts from the same National Defense more than your words.)) In addition, the "roller coasters", if you like, are the trademark of many Russian anti-ship missiles, they are carried out even by Onyx, even if it is flying , in the final section, almost above the water, but before entering the target, he carries out this slide. So the slide quite logically fits into the approach to the X-32 target. But even if, with a loss of speed, it fell into a peak, let's recall physics and the equation for determining the speed of a body in free fall. V = v (0) + gt Was this formula taught in Israeli schools?)) So 40 km it will "fall" for 20 seconds and, therefore, increase its speed by 20g))) Or, by about 200m / s. I mean, more than half a half)))
    Everything that you wrote perfectly)) Only here the CD does not fly along a ballistic trajectory))) And leave your tales, please, for those who believe in similar stories about the Skripals))) Maybe you will convince them. And in the annotations to this anti-missile it is clearly stated that it comes down to even such stubborn ones as you are applicable for ballistic purposes. So I can't help it. Forgive me, you are not yet a general designer to understand the intricacies of the work of cm3, besides, all the information on this topic is closed)))
  • ironic
    ironic 2 May 2021 16: 49
    -1
    The difference is that you wrote one thing and I wrote something completely different. And you didn't see the difference. According to you, the bus stops and drops off the students as if to school. This Onyx has a reason to make a slide, he goes over the water, and there is no need to make a slide from 40 km, except that the maneuver before the transition in the peak can be like a certain jump. It will not fall at an increasing speed, but will slow down with increasing air resistance, because otherwise it will simply burn up in the atmosphere at a hypersonic speed for which it is not designed. And yes, it does not fly in ballistics, it flies in a straight line for most of its trajectory, which is even simpler. And it has nothing to do with who and where the general designer. Everything there has been open for a long time at a popular scientific level. This is already a flame.
    Yes, there is an opinion that at least 100 km of altitude is necessary to activate the CM-3, but this looks like a software restriction:
    / / /
    After burnout of the Mk 104 motor, the missile coasts to an altitude of 56 km, at which time the third stage separates from the second stage.
    / / /
    Those. the third stage can be configured to release the interceptor without further overclocking. Moreover, there are kinetic interception systems operating at altitudes of 100 km, which means there is no physical contraindication to such actions.
  • Leontrotsky
    Leontrotsky 2 May 2021 19: 20
    +2
    "After the Mk 104 engine burns out, the rocket takes off to an altitude of 56 km, after which the third stage is separated from the second stage." - and this, of course, proves that the Kh-40 will be shot down at an altitude of 32 km. As I understand it, the unfastened third stage))) After that, about the configuration of the stage, the conclusion is simply brilliant))) It is completely irrelevant to what was said. Dear. I already told you on this topic. I am giving you links to the source, where my words are confirmed by various experts. Believe it or not, it's up to you. But I want reciprocity from you)) I mean, links to an authoritative English-language source (comparable to the Russian National Defense) where it would be written that SM3 removes anti-ship missiles at altitudes up to 40 km, flying at speeds close to Mach 5))

    "It will not fall with increasing speed, but it will slow down with increasing air resistance" -))))))))))))))) Well, what do they teach you in Israeli schools?)) You are a cool person, you don't raise your spirits childishly, as the youth say.))) Honestly, I imagined old man Gpleia, who, from the top of the Leaning Tower of Pisa, at an initial speed, threw a stone down ... and he, under the influence of the force of air resistance ... began to slow down)) )))))))) Do not tell me, senor)) Otherwise, your opponent will not be alive, and who then will free you from the next concentration camp, arranged with the blessing of Uncle Sam?)) Of course, the force of resistance is so strong that the force of gravity is so, small things.))) For whom did I give the formula, my gold?)) V = V (0) + GT Seeing your "discoveries", just in case, now I will write that G = 9,81 m / s ** 2. On Earth, at least. The X-32, as we found out, will fall for about 20 seconds from 40 km. This means that the speed with which the X-32 will come out of the hill will increase by about 200 m / s by the time it approaches the target. This is half a half. Considering that the X-32 flies at Mach 4,6, it will approach the target at about a speed of Mach 5))) Moreover, at an altitude of 10 km (13-15 seconds after the start of the "fall"), the speed increase will be 100-150 m / sec. That is, about a third of the swing. Yes, and it is aimed, 5-10 seconds before hitting the target, it is no longer necessary. An airplane or a destroyer simply won't have time to push through its hull. No, but if you absolutely want braking, then it can be organized. For example, putting Petrov and Boshirov on the X-32 and, after the slide, they will certainly cock the handbrake)))))))))))
  • Leontrotsky
    Leontrotsky 2 May 2021 01: 58
    +1
    As for the fairy tales about your so-called AUG umbrella. I repeat once again, near the Crimea, if the AUG will have such stupidity to go there, due to the dominance of the Aerospace Forces forces, near its territory, not a single F-18 and F-35 will stick out more than 300 km from their order (air defense cover zone) ... The same applies to the Hokai))) And as we found out (I don't even take zircon into account), the usual X-32 air defense is neither tikanderogo, nor berks, they are simply not able to shoot down. In the case of a limited nuclear conflict, the task becomes even simpler. It is enough to shoot "over the areas" of the same X-32 (nuclear version) or X-102, ionize the atmosphere on approach to the warrant, which means to make the comfortable operation of air defense systems impossible, and to disable some of them EMP, and already further finalize with conventional anti-ship missiles. Tactics old as the world may still be in demand today. As for the allies, I repeat once again, I am far from sure that they will provide their territories for the reception of NATO aircraft, knowing that in the event of a mess, the first to whom the Iskanders and calibers will arrive will be. If this is their choice, well, as they say, they themselves wanted to)))
  • ironic
    ironic 2 May 2021 12: 51
    -1
    The Aerospace Forces may not have any dominance, with 800 strike aircraft scattered throughout the vast country. And if the F-18 still has valid restrictions, then the F-35 can be anywhere and will have to catch them during the day with fire. And as it is quite clear, there can be no active actions with the use of the Kh-32, except for the screams of a hurray, and if several missiles are fired from one or a pair of experimental vehicles (if the only M3M is already capable of doing this in a combat situation), then considering how many are against them air defense, even one hit and the death of one ship from the entire AUG will be a great success, and not a real victory for the weapon. It's better not to talk about a limited nuclear conflict on the Black Sea, because a dozen F-35s will turn this conflict into a pogrom, blowing up 50Kt of ammunition over the entire area of ​​hostilities and this will end the hostilities of the entire southern group of Russian forces and only the TMV option with mass exchange will remain ICBM. And when they take off, for example, from the Romanian airfield, no one will ask Romania.
  • Leontrotsky
    Leontrotsky 2 May 2021 14: 31
    +1
    Well, why does the Russian Federation need all 800 strike aircraft at once? It is enough to have them 300-350.))) Aircraft, how much does it carry? -Totally fifty kopecks of shock workers. Well, if, at its own peril and risk, the same Poland provides its airfields, its business, after the very first strike on the Black Sea fleet, there will be no living space left of them and it means that the F-35 that took off will have to land anywhere, but not in the same place. In addition, the S-400 and S-500 perfectly see your F-35s, so it is not recommended to fly closer than 500 km to the Crimea. Very strongly. Personally, I do not doubt for a second that there are both Kh-32 and TU-22m3 capable of using them. For one reason. Turn on the head first toko. I already wrote about this. There would be no point in developing the X-32, if there were no views on a specific carrier. Any new weapon is good here and now. In 10 years, it will no longer be the most advanced and effective. And then the point is to create it, knowing that the carrier will appear in 10 years? besides, explain to me why create a new plane? When it is enough to put radio electronics on the old one, which ensures the launch of a new rocket))) And therefore, I make a more logical conclusion than you, that what is written in the article is true.
    In addition, if we talk about the F-35, they have so many problems during operation that it is simply ridiculous to talk about it as a run-in 4+ generation aircraft.
    As for the detonation of 50 kt of ammunition, in the case of the use of nuclear weapons of the Russian Federation, I would not be in a hurry. Well, judge for yourself what choice the United States will face. Yes, to lose the destroyers, possibly one AUG, which, moreover, was the first to strike the Black Sea Fleet, but a strike on a warrant in the Mediterranean, for example, would not directly affect the United States. It will be bad for your Israel, various Greece, Spain .... but not the United States. More precisely, not yet the United States. And a nuclear strike on the territory of Russia (that is, the Crimea and its environs) is guaranteed to include the territory of the United States in exchange of nuclear strikes. There is something to think about, right?)) Either at the expense of Europe and the loss of its group of ships to hit the Black Sea Fleet, or lose, as they say. Both the Americans and America itself, who have never seriously fought to this day))) What would you choose?))))
  • ironic
    ironic 2 May 2021 18: 05
    -1
    And where will you get so much on one southern direction? The airplane carries 50-60 combat vehicles only in non-combat mode, but if they are brought in in combat, it will be 70-80, but if two are brought in? And they can. And the airfields in Greece, and in Romania? I don’t even consider Poland, it’s like in the north and central directions, I didn’t even mention Turkey. In general, the C-500 is still in development and testing with might and main, it is not there and will not be in service in the next year. The 400th can not take on target tracking the 35th in combat equipment without lenses from a distance of impact with an anti-radar missile. So far, not a single air defense complex can, even from the Americans themselves. Therefore, look for their fistulas from a distance of 50 km. I also have no doubt that the launch of single missiles of this type will end in the drowning of the entire Black Sea Fleet, while most of the ships will not even understand how they were drowned, due to the air defense not meeting the modern realities of potential adversaries.

    Borei were also built in the absence of a really flying Mace and nothing, as many as three pieces were already in service, while the Mace began to fly confidently.

    The strange opinion of uryapatriotism is that all the listed disadvantages of the F-35, most of which relate to the F-35B, are more than those of the already run-in 4th generation aircraft. F-16 Block 52 has them after so many years and no less modifications and this did not prevent it from becoming the most massive multi-role fighter bomber. It's funny to hear that the use of the F-35A from ground airfields to help the AUG will be frivolous. They will demolish the radars of all air defense from a distance from which they cannot even accompany them as a target. And if they encounter them in battle, they will meet the enemy at a speed of 1-1.2M in the menial battle, under which they are sharpened aerodynamically, which their opponents cannot even maintain without afterburner, which means that the fuel will go away in the shortest possible time, and the super-maneuverability that they demonstrate at a speed of 0.5M, at such a speed it will not ride due to the borders of the pilots' ability to overload at 9G, even if the aircraft structure can withstand 10.

    It was you who proposed the scenario for launching the X-102 or Iskander with nuclear warheads, which will automatically entail a tactical response. I wrote to you that this is an idiotic script. So you are writing to me now that this is an idiotic scenario? Well, you give.

    And as you imagine the situation, the destroyer is launching missiles in the LPR, missiles are fired at the destroyer from the Crimea, the AUG hits these missiles, of course, if they hit the AUG with operational tactical means, then the answer will follow from under the water and from US military bases in Europe, It goes without saying, and no politician in the United States will be able to continue a career with the stigma I allowed the unrequited death of the AUG. His career is over. Is there a chance that there might be a solution or my career or the whole world to dust? Yes, maybe that's why it is better that there was no such level of tension when someone has to decide to shoot or not shoot and what. Because wars often start not because they really wanted to, but because some ... pulled the trigger without an order, and then it was impossible not to answer.
  • Leontrotsky
    Leontrotsky 2 May 2021 18: 44
    +2
    To the south, if necessary, they will be driven from the north)) And, if necessary, from other places of deployment of the Aerospace Forces. The infrastructure is all available. By the way, here's another, this time from "National Defense" confirmation that the TU-22m3 are carrying the Kh-32.)))
    "In order not to go far for examples, let us turn to the strike force with Harry S. Truman at the head. This group operated mainly in the eastern Mediterranean. If its actions threatened Russia or the citizens of the Russian Federation in Syria, then, for sure, they would be rebuffed. The MiG-31K could strike with the "Dagger" without even leaving the airspace of the Russian Federation. Tu-22M3 bombers - carriers of the Kh-32 anti-ship missiles - can often be found in this area. "That is why it would be imprudent to keep the aircraft carrier Harry S. Truman and the accompanying cruiser and destroyers in the Mediterranean for a long time. For this, the concept of" dynamic deployment of force "was invented." Here is a link to the article. https://oborona.ru/includes/periodics/navy/2018/0830/182424962/detail.shtml
    But from the same article about daggers- "Now Russia has a wide choice of means of destroying aircraft carriers. In July, exercises were held in the Caspian Sea, during which the next tests of the X-47M2" Dagger "complex took place. The missile confidently hit the target. aeroballistic missiles Kh-47M2 in tandem with MiG-31K fighters are designed to destroy coastal and sea targets, primarily aircraft carriers, at ranges of up to 2000 km. At the same time, the range of American carrier-based fighters F / A-18 Hornet is 500 miles (926 km), and promising F-35s - 550 miles (1019 km). That is, they will not be able to intercept the MiG-31K if they wanted to. "
    Well, take these would-be experts who have been engaged in military topics all their lives, Mr. GREAT STRATEGIC)))) By the way, I have already bombarded you with links to confirm my words))) And you never sent me a link to a source claiming that SM3 is capable of intercepting anti-ship missiles at altitudes up to 50 km))))
    The careers of your admirals don't worry Russia at all. )) I do not even doubt that in the event of an attack on the Black Sea Fleet (the subject of the article is about the destruction of the entire Black Sea Fleet by the destroyers), a response will be inflicted both on the NK, which fired the volley, and on NATO bases in Europe. And, according to the Russian military doctrine, a strike can also be nuclear if the situation threatens the existence of the Russian Federation (and the destruction of the Black Sea Fleet, in my opinion, is exactly such a situation))))
    "Boreas were also built in the absence of a really flying Mace and nothing, as many as three were already in the ranks, until the Mace began to fly confidently." -))))))))))))))))))))))) ))))))))))
    Are you serious or kidding? The situation here is exactly the opposite. The mace was created, knowing that there are Boreas and sculpted it for them. And then, on the contrary, it turns out that they built an anti-ship missile system, and from what carrier to use it-HZ)))) This is complete absurdity.
  • ironic
    ironic 2 May 2021 19: 38
    -1
    Will they drive you straight? And who will cover the northern one for now? Patriotic uryaks? Stabbed with a dagger where? Who would aim this blow at the target? Why don't your authoritative publication write the truth that the Dagger is as hypersonic as Iskander and like almost any MRBM that has been or is being armed. In the past, the United States also had aerobatic rockets with transatmospheric hypersound. Well, after that, what is the authority of such publications? Only patriotic. And trying to hit a moving target 2000 km away with an aerobalistic rocket without deployed guidance systems is possible only out of desperation. That's the whole great strategy. These links are not confirmation of your words, but military-patriotic articles with bravura statements that question physical principles. And the article on the structure of SM-3, which says the 3rd stage is separated by 56 km, can not be found only by the lazy.

    In Israel there are no admirals at all, how can I have "our" admirals? So why consider the possibility of attacking destroyers in the Black Sea, knowing that the answer will end in a nuclear conflict? Who hit the ships that fired 56 CR in Syria? No one. That is all the summary of our theorizing.

    In your uryapatriotism, have you come to the conclusion that the Mace was already workable when the Boreas had already begun to descend from the stocks? So even your periodical contradicts this. Read for yourself when the first three were built and when the emergency launches of the Bulava stopped and do not fool people. That's where the absurdity is.
  • Leontrotsky
    Leontrotsky 4 May 2021 20: 25
    +2
    Will cover)) Not all aircraft will be removed from; 5 armies of the Air Force and Air Defense. Some will be left. They cover and will. The conflict then flared up on the Black Sea, which means that while it is calm in the Northern Fleet or the Far East, part of the aircraft can be transferred to Sevastopol and their numbers increased to such that in a local conflict they have an advantage in the air. Moreover, already 10 years ago, a similar strategy was voiced. And it consisted in the fact that, forming subdivisions of the Aerospace Forces, make them suck incomplete. That is, relatively speaking, in the regiment, instead of two squadrons of attack aircraft, to make one. And the second is transferred, if the direction becomes hot, from another military unit, and in this way the VKS regiment is formed according to the staffing table. Yes, strikes from different directions are possible, but such a strategy will cover two or three hot ones, and if there are more directions, then see the Russian military doctrine, which directly says that in the event of a threat to the country's existence, the Russian Federation reserves the right in such a situation. , apply nuclear weapons.
    Again you are talking about your level))) I'm not going to look for anything, after all, you demand from me some facts and photo confirmation of my words. I just answer you the same. But, unlike me, my words are a link to the site, where it would be said that the SM3 is capable of demolishing anti-ship missiles at an altitude of 50 km, you do not cite))) So it’s more of a hurray-patriotism in the west, who believe that the Russian Federation has their weapons are rusty ballistic missiles, since the times of the USSR, cartoons about daggers and calibers and Petrov and Boshirov, which, in fact, represent the main striking force. And this plays into Russia's hands, because when it comes to real clashes, the awakening of Europe and America will be bloody and terrible.
    Once again, I am sending you to the military doctrine of the Russian Federation, in the case of an example with destroyers. If they strike at the CFRF, there can be absolutely any strike, I would not be surprised even if it is a nuclear one. About Syria, answer your own question, was there a blow to at least one Russian base? That is why the ships that made the strike did not receive a response. By the way, the Americans were warned on this score, before the strike, that if it hits Khmeimim, there will be an answer. So, I would rather say this, NATovists have had the guts to hit Russian bases in Syria. However, even the blow to the targets of the Sisrian army ended in disgrace for them. I will not even recall the number of axes that failed to fly and the damage they caused.
    As for the TsU Dagger, it will be from the same sources as for the X-32. I have already listed them for you in detail. At a speed of 10 swings, the dagger will reach the target (when shooting, say, 1200 km) in 7-8 minutes. Well, then the GOS will find what it was looking for, because in 7 minutes your destroyer will move 5 km away. The basic principle of modern warfare - got a control center - fired and forgot. This also applies to Russian anti-ship missiles and all others.
  • ironic
    ironic 5 May 2021 13: 59
    -1
    So the Americans can also transfer, and they have something to transfer at times more in terms of aviation. And they can also use nuclear weapons. They also have TNW, and they have it at hand in Europe, and the F-35A will cope with delivery no worse than the X-102, and even better. This may well be applied not at all on the territory of the Russian Federation. And what, GDP will rush in response to raise all ICBMs? Why didn't he use it when 56 Axes were launched across Syria? Not on the bases of the Russian Federation? OU and the Russian bases did not interfere. They would intervene, it would be on the bases.

    A strike on the Black Sea Fleet is hardly part of the task of destroyers in the Black Sea, no one wants to be the first in a direct collision, but a retaliatory strike may well be if the Black Sea Fleet intervenes in their tasks and the response of TNW in the form of a CD will be followed by an atomic bomb strike on the respondents' infrastructure ... ICBMs will rise in response, and ICBMs will rise from the other side. But only one country can, in addition, send after ICBMs twice as many bombers and three times as many tactical nuclear submarines, which can also carry nuclear weapons than another.

    Your references to patriotic uryak are proof of patriotism uryak, there are a lot of them in runet and it makes no sense to prove their presence at all, but what else?
    Awakening happened long ago. 66 thousand SA soldiers did not return from Afghanistan and a million Afghans were killed. The Aerospace Forces in Syria have already deployed more than 7 thousand. civilians, most of all the members of the coalition put together (> 3 thousand civilians), and the victory seems to be declared like that for the fourth time ...

    In the west, it is just fine to monitor the rearmament of strategic nuclear forces, and there are many informative and reasonable articles on this topic published. In a real confrontation, blood and horror await both sides, and unlike WWII, no one will have the task of seizing territories or obtaining economic preferences in their plans, and you will not take people anywhere, and no one will sign up as allies. Therefore, the more points of tension where a direct clash is real, the more likely it is not politicians who will start the war, but some one whose nerves will lose. And then it will be unstoppable.
  • Leontrotsky
    Leontrotsky 6 May 2021 01: 39
    +2
    In order to transfer something, an appropriate infrastructure is needed for this transfer. And more specifically the same airfields, taking off from which the F-35 would have had enough of its combat radius to use what it has. Such airfields in Europe will not be enough to achieve an advantage over the Aerospace Forces in the numerical strength of attack aircraft. Yes, and the advantage in the United States over Russia in strikers is not so great- "Researchers from Air Power, having studied the data of the World Air Forces 2019 Report from the FlightGlobal portal. com, identified the top ten countries in the world that have the largest fleet of military aircraft. In the first place, of course, is the United States with 2826 combat aircraft. The second step of the podium was taken by China with 1624 aircraft, and in third place was Russia with 1591 combat aircraft. " This is the first thing. Secondly, when trying to do something against the CFRF, or against its military bases, I do not exclude that even when striking the DPR and LPR, the same KR-based NATO aircraft will be hit with Iskanders and calibers. I have already written about this, but there is a need to repeat myself. Well, then ... in general, everything that was thrown and did not take off will be destroyed right at the airfields, and that which took off and landed in another place))
    About 66000 soldiers who did not return from Afgan, learn history, dear friend)) There are 14 of them. A lot. Many Afghans also died, but these figures simply pale in comparison to Korea and Vietnam, Iraq and Libya, Yugoslavia. So first teach your masters humanism))
    As for the fact that one country can send more bombers and nuclear submarines, the other, but has more ground-based missiles, mobile ground-based nuclear weapons, and surpasses the United States in the total number of warheads. But this is not the most important thing. Russia has gone through such wars that it is difficult to surprise her with anything. And the well-fed, spoiled and pampered have never tasted what a real war means)) And it has never been fought on their territory yet. And their houses have never been burned, and old people and children have not died from the atomic sun, as was the case in Hiroshima, for example. There is a chance to feel and understand all this. And finally, to fight, for real. For some reason, it seems to me that you will quickly understand the difference between a real war and one that doubles the GDP)))))
    And there will be war. Sooner or later. I do not know if it will reach the nuclear phase, but it is very possible that it will. By the way, Churchill was also sure of this.))))
  • ironic
    ironic 6 May 2021 04: 14
    -1
    Oh, how much is that videoconferencing in terms of a huge country. With such a length of borders, you need three videoconferencing. Of these 1500, how many will they be able to fight with fighters? They don't have to do everything with the F-35. These will do what others cannot. No one will be the first to shoot across the Russian Federation, but because the Russian Federation is not considered internationally and where the Russian Federation itself says that it is not, they can. But if the Black Sea Fleet answers, then this is an attack by the Black Sea Fleet on NATO and given the fact that there are ships owning modern air defense ... life at the Black Sea Fleet until the first salvo at it. But he will not answer, as no one fired at the destroyers who fired at Syria. The numbers do not fade, they are of the same order with Afgan and Syria .... And all whom you describe as spoiled no one will ask and they will not decide anything. They will not fight and you will have the same. It won't be like WWII. Nobody will need your territory and cities. The experience of the war with Hitler did not help in modern conflicts and will not help in this, for it was the war of the past day. And the modern population of Moscow and St. Petersburg is not the hardened blockade of that generation, do not invent fairy tales. They have guys with strong nerves, mentally hardened no less than the guys at the Russian consoles, at the command dispatches. Therefore, there are two options, either it will reach the hands of these guys because some one will make the decision to shoot before the politicians, or a guy who seems to be immortal will come into politics. And both alignments are possible only as a consequence of the unwinding of military hysteria. And your rhetoric about the owners, this is exactly the same military hysteria, when a fool's shot can turn into unwanted by both sides of TMV. In yourself, when was the last time a Molotov cocktail flew at least for real? When was the last time you saw a hail hit a neighboring house? Or maybe your house was on fire from an outbreak of fusion in the distance, that you so easily talk about the spoiledness of a third party? Feeling ready for heaven?
  • Leontrotsky
    Leontrotsky 6 May 2021 14: 33
    +2
    I feel ready for paradise))) And if this day comes tomorrow .... then it will come tomorrow.) Sooner or later, you still have to die. So clinging to life is ridiculous. Yes, the current generation did not survive the blockade ... but their ancestors did. and they endured. This means that the current generation will also survive. But the United States of history similar to this did not pass from the word "absolutely". And if for Russia and for its economy to live in extreme conditions is almost the norm (because many have passed through 90), then for the United States it is a novelty. How many did you say and a million Afghans died in Afghanistan?))) About 1,5 million died in Vietnam , in Korea, more than a million, in Iraq, about 0,5 million, and that's not counting the little things. And if you dig deep into history and remember tens of millions of cut Indians ... In general, there is something to remember)))
    As for me personally, in 1988 I graduated from the Naval at Petrodvorets, served in 1144 (Kirov), 1155, for a total of 25 years, 18 of them in the fleets. The fusion didn’t come close, and the house didn’t burn either. But in order to be ready to go to heaven, this is not necessary. You just need to know that, if something happens, you will step over it. So if they call me to take the first shot, I'll do it)))
  • ironic
    ironic 6 May 2021 15: 28
    -1
    And in Syria another 600 thousand. and according to the number of defeats of the peacekeeper, the Aerospace Forces are in the first place there> 7 thousand.
    But my jeep hood was on fire, and I saw how the house was destroyed by a rocket hit, and how the dosimeter (on the rod) shows 20 x-rays I also saw with my own eyes, which is probably why I am suspicious of those who are always ready, even those who wore shoulder straps. It is because of such people who are always ready with their increased level of readiness to go to paradise and wars begin. Because the first shot, which no one wanted, most often makes one who has never seen its consequences, a ready-made hysterical for everything, and then historians count millions. And the smile at the end of such a post generally makes you think about psychological health.
  • Leontrotsky
    Leontrotsky 6 May 2021 16: 52
    +2
    And this is said to me by a person who represents the kingdom of democracy))) So it became impossible to smile? And what can you?))) Smile more often, because, as one hero said, stupidity is most often done with serious faces))) Siberia did not stand close to the destruction of American civilization))) And look at Yermak's "army" and see for yourself answer the question, how many he could exterminate. Moreover, there was no such task. For the local tribes swore allegiance to the "white" king and became part of the clan nobility. Princes Yusupov, Cherkassky, Aksakov and many others are an example of this. Remember what they did with Shamil after the defeat of his performances and how with Motekusoma the second and Atavalpa. In 1960, the Spanish historian Carlos Sawyer found an interesting document in the Spanish royal archives. It was a note by Bartolomeo Columbus, brother of the famous commander, who was radioed at the end of the 15th century, when the brave commander himself sailed to report to Queen Isabella, and the brother was left by the Acting Governor of Hispaniola (modern Haiti), and so the IO conducted a population census. He counted 1 million people (despite the fact that the Spaniards then owned half of Haiti) and only men were counted in the census). That is, women, children, old people did not participate in it. According to the most conservative estimates, there were about 3 million inhabitants. And after 30 years, according to the second census, there were ... 30 of them.))) This is to make the scale clearer. )) And now extrapolate this to the entire continent, where millions of herds of bison roamed (which means, unlike Siberia, the Homosapiens who lived there had a huge food base), the latitude in the region of the great lakes corresponds, approximately, to the latitude of Voronezh, this is me. that it is not Siberian minus 000 in winter with all the ensuing consequences for the development of Siberian lands by the population and its size.
    Dear ... how to put it mildly ... it's not about rents, but about the fact that you, Judas, sold both your country and your relatives who fought for their Motherland, honor and Glory and a deep bow to them for this. Receive further your 30 pieces of silver from your big brother, close your eyes to what is happening in the world and then lie, as always those to whom you lick your boots lied.))) Farewell))))) Psychology of a slave who came out of Babylonian captivity you need to get out of yourself bit by bit)))
  • ironic
    ironic 6 May 2021 19: 46
    0
    Not all that is possible is needed. Unfortunately, the reign of democracy never came, but nevertheless it is better than the reign of the red or gray oligarchy and the stripes behind their backs.

    And one famous writer "Garikov" wrote such a dedication to this opinion - "My firmament is crystal clear and full of rainbow pictures, not because the world is beautiful, but because I am a nerd."

    Over the past 30 years 25, I probably have not watched almost anything from the cinema in Russian, and from time to time, when I do, then more often for a long time it again discourages me. Many were exterminated, not all died out, yes. And they thinned out and got lost as a people. How I like these selective consequences of blindness, like they met with the phenomenon of genocide on a large scale and therefore they find excuses for enslavement and partial genocide on a smaller scale because there weren’t so many and because minus 40 ... That's when I read this, right away I understand why the wisdom of the peoples of the world was written in the books of my ancestors - evil.

    Oooh! Here it is where the dog rummaged as usual. The racist, anti-Semite and great-power chauvinist, who had been hiding behind beautiful phrases for a long time, showed his real face. The founder of one of the 12 tribes of Israel, Yehuda, is the son of the forefather Isaac - it is a great honor for me to be named after him. I did not sell the USSR, I often served him from call to call, and even where there were 20 X-rays on cars, he sold me, together with my mother, who worked for him for 33 years of engineering experience, 50K green per head and not I disdained bourgeois money, so I also robbed it, probably for the fulfillment of military duty, but now it is gone and this is already your country and your homeland, not mine, but my homeland Israel. By the way, all my relatives who fought are buried for some reason in Israel and in the States, probably they are also traitors for you now and the low bow is canceled. There are only in one country people for whom former neighbors who have left to live in other countries are traitors, in all other civilized countries such a worldview is considered food savagery. But not to demand, in fact, human traits from the Jew-phobe ...

    At least I got out of captivity, I had such an opportunity, and the indestructible Babylon collapsed with all its inviolability, and as you were still a slave in it and a rogue, including a spiritual one, you will remain full of anger and your own inferiority complexes. This is not even your lie, you are not even able to come up with your own, here you just lick the boots, from which the stripes go up. Just lick you almost nothing, and it should be so. But you will never know, zombies are not supposed to know, only to believe ... in the power of the stripe and the boot. negative
  • Leontrotsky
    Leontrotsky 12 May 2021 10: 30
    0
    )))))))))))))))) How you amuse me. We have already seen the kingdom of democracy on the example of the atomic bombing of Japan and Korea and Vietnam and Iraq with Libya))) And in your country in 90)))) "Garikov" read on, this is the ceiling of your intelligence, apparently))
    About films, I have just the opposite picture. I do not watch amerskiye films, for their artistic quality is extremely low. I would even say that all of Goliwood is not worth, say, Bortko's "Heart of a Dog"))) I often go to the theater, since there are plenty of them in Moscow for every taste. I often visit museums. And in this regard, Russia is in complete order. ))) As for freedom, we even have "Echo of Moscow" here, which is still not closed, give an example from you of a similar source, and even funded by the state that categorically does not fit into the "main stream"))))
    "How I like these selective consequences of blindness, such as met with the phenomenon of genocide on a large scale and therefore find excuses for enslavement and partial genocide on a smaller scale" - respected big crimes deserve more condemnation. You can't give one term to the killer and to the one who stole a hamburger from McDonald's.))) Look how many sits in your states, 2,5 million to 350.))) What kind of freedom are you blathering about?
    Not all people who left for other countries are traitors. Traitors and scoundrels are only those who throw mud at the country that gave them free education, brought up and nurtured him. And all serve, not you alone. some in cars with 20 x-rays, some in Chechnya, and some on nuclear cruisers with reactors on board. And no one whines like a beaten dog)))) "There is such a profession - to defend the Motherland" - haven't you watched such films either?))))
  • Leontrotsky
    Leontrotsky 6 May 2021 15: 20
    +1
    As for the videoconferencing, someone who counted, how much is needed. And not videoconferencing alone. There are also YARS on a safety net))) And the number, the same VKS is quite enough so that those who decide to shoot anywhere would receive the same response as in their time, your fellow tribesmen from Navudonochosor and Sinnacherib))) Not Frowning is a joke. The captivity did you good, but it just didn't make you grateful to those who took part in the return of part of your lands) Only cowards are armed to the teeth, who participate in the war in the form of commercial projects and land in Normandy only when the entire color of the Wehrmacht and the SS lay in the fields near Volokolamsk and Rzhev, and Goering's brainchild, according to Rommel's recollections, was almost gone by that time.
    "About this attack of the Black Sea Fleet on NATO and considering the fact that there are ships owning modern air defense ... life at the Black Sea Fleet until the first salvo on it." - listen, my dear, are you deaf?))) I repeat once again, although I have already told you about this ... All modern NK Black Sea Fleet RF-NEAR ... can be seen so ... once again-the Near sea zone. This means that they were created for action along their coast. They have a low water loss, usually in the region of 1000-2000 tons), but it is more difficult to get into them, and the calibers on board are up to 8 pcs. Some of them have only MANPADS from air defense systems. Accordingly, they were designed and built in order to perform the task under the cover of coastal air defense. Crimean batteries S-400 in our case.)) And it is even more reliable. Because the ship's air defense can not be compared with the land one, due to the limited space on the NK. How many S-400 and S-500 can be deployed?)))) Darkness))) Anything more than on a berk) But they can shoot. Including on NATO bases. So do not get excited about the destruction of the entire Black Sea Fleet from the first salvo. And remember the efficiency when firing at a Syrian airfield ... although there were old S-300s))))
  • ironic
    ironic 6 May 2021 19: 48
    -1
    Aha, again zhahnat Poplar? Well, in fact, given the post above, what else can there be a reflection of an idolater of a boot and a stripe? Yes, no. I did not read further.
  • ironic
    ironic 5 May 2021 14: 56
    -1
    PS And I also told you about shooting with a Dagger. He will fly in 7-8 minutes only in uryaks, because his average speed is so 4-4.5M and there is practically no one to indicate to him. Those. if his target deviated significantly in about 15-20 minutes of flight, then this is just some kind of bezishodnost. Iskander optics are for accurate targeting, not for target detection.
  • Leontrotsky
    Leontrotsky 6 May 2021 01: 55
    +1
    The dagger is not Iskander. Iskander, to begin with, is designed to fire at stationary ground targets, and only the latest versions of its missiles can fire at sea targets. And then motionless. Like NK at the pier. The dagger was originally conceived and implemented as a RCC, with all the ensuing consequences for its GOS. This is the first thing. Secondly, a hypersonic rocket is called a rocket that has a speed of more than Mach 5 on most of its trajectory. The Dagger has a speed not of Mach 5, for most of the trajectory, but 10. Even at altitude, it flies in a plasma cocoon at such a speed, and before approaching the target reduces to Mach 5 (at least many authoritative people and "Military Acceptance" and in the same "National Defense", and Korotchenkov himself, hinted at this. I won't say for sure. Maybe after the creation of zircon they solved the problem with guidance in the plasma cloud mode. Accordingly, the Dagger also has design features, since it became an anti-ship missile system. At a speed of 10 mach, it will cover a distance of 1000 km in 6-7 minutes. (at Mach 10, the speed is 180 km / min) One and a half thousand kilometers-minutes in 10-11. So at 20 knots the ship will leave in 10 minutes for 5-7 km. So there are not the slightest problems. Enough, from the same Liana, or from the SU-34, or from the Mordovian Container, indicate the square. and all the berks who are there will have an interesting adventure)))) We have already spoken about this and, and you again about target designation))) In addition, Russia has AWACS planes, albeit not yet "Premieres" (but soon they will be too), so .... a lot of interesting things, I think we will see)) )
  • ironic
    ironic 6 May 2021 03: 44
    0
    Well, yes, this is Iskander converted into a Dagger. Naturally, there are differences. Ballistic anti-ship missiles are no origin. What's yours that Chinese. No, hypersonic is called a racket that develops 5 or more M in the atmosphere. And behind the atmosphere, even before the first space, you will go into orbit. And Iskander has at least 8, and Yars has something, and Yars has ... and Soyuz 2.a ..... From when it becomes clear that there is Zircon, we'll talk from it, otherwise it has become very fashionable write unscientific but patriotic articles and reprint them, often without thinking at all about what the authors are competing in. So the Khibiny disgraced themselves to the whole world, it turned out that this crap was launched by the blogger in general from the bulldozer, and let's reprint all decent publications and not a single authoritative one stopped. And this game about 1K km in 6 minutes is already reprinted how much, and the timid voices of people - forgive crap, the uryak is not heard in the hum, as in clouds of plasma. Burke will go 20 km in 20 minutes, Nimitz will also be in motion, without guidance, the optical head will not retarget a rocket flying at a dive on several swings to such an offset. And as for the sufficiency of Liana, they were already dismantling the game at the VO. The square can be specified as LRASM, and then at its subsonic speed and a completely different pathway, a whole system with a complex algorithm was required, and the fact that you are broadcasting is simply anti-scientific. But this is the trend right now - to broadcast. Like it should be scary. The result is exactly the opposite. And in the Ministry of Defense there are non-partners and they are glad, such help in knocking out budgets. They are not going to throw hypersonic anti-ship missiles. They want hundreds of subsonic ones. They even chase strategic hypersound with secret missions, and for battle they want a medium-radius glider. And I understand why. They do not need to broadcast about victories. They need to broadcast to give the dough.
  • Leontrotsky
    Leontrotsky 6 May 2021 14: 53
    +1
    Well, I agree. The dagger is a modernized Iskander for other conditions of use, and then what?)))) On the dagger, the Supreme Commander himself told you 10 swings))) Who else do you need as witnesses?))) With Yars, what are the problems? He was on alert even earlier than the dagger. Moreover, I will say that this is not news to you, all the performance characteristics of the newest weapons that are publicly available are most often underestimated. There is no zircon on the database. But once again, I repeat, there is already a dagger and an avant-garde and the same YARS. It seems to me quite enough to expect zircon and Poseidon and Sarmatian on the way.
    Stop being nervous, dear ... Well, your berk will leave for 20 km, yes to your health. Let me remind you once again about Onyx, on approaching the target, he sees a vessel like Burke at 50 km. The gos of the dagger will be no worse. And once again for you, the optical channel is only one of the channels of the GOS. Who told you that the active regime is not about her? Well, if the local site is a measure of truth for you, I can't help you at all)) Here comrade Timokhin wrote about a full-scale thermonuclear war, which, they say, is all chukhnya, nothing more than firing high-power projectiles at someone else's territory. He said that even if the Russian Federation releases its entire nuclear arsenal against the United States, well, 15-20 million will die, but everything else is unlikely to be seriously affected. When he was reminded in the comments that 1 megaton is 20 times more than Hiroshima and Nagasaki, where about 200 died from "Kid" and "Fat Man", he, like you, tried not to hear uncomfortable things. ))) So they write a lot here. And I personally took part, say, in the shooting with Granite, and I have a great idea of ​​what they were capable of back in the early 000s.
    Anti-scientific? If it were anti-scientific, then anti-ship missiles would not have been created. And why is it possible to indicate lrasm square-A to a dagger or X-32 not?)) Or for those who fly high, squares are not indicated?))) With LRASM everything is clear, slow speed, when it comes to the point, then with such a "full-time radio horizon" from a height of 100 meters, and even with excitement, who will he look for? Who went even further than your berk in 20 minutes at its fullest?))) And then the radio horizon is 40 km and the sea is in full view. And the detection range of the seeker of the berk is 50 km. How long do you say he walked away?)) Don't be nervous, my friend ... otherwise, don't start dancing when your master snaps his fingers again. Be healthy))))
  • ironic
    ironic 9 May 2021 15: 46
    0
    Well, yes, at the top of the trajectory of 10 swings, so is Iskander at the top of 8 swings, so what? Yes, no problems with Ers, except that all this is not hypersonic and was before them. And Vanguard is a glider, about the same as the X-37, only smaller.
    Nervous? Oh, how nervous I am ... someone on the network is wrong. It's all gone straight.
    Onyx flies up to the target at a speed of ~ 1.5M at low altitude, and your air Iskander is at its end, at its peak, at high supersonic speed, already without an engine and with optics capable of tuning correction, and not searching for targets. Well I say this is some sort of bezishodnost as a RCC.
    Timokhin wrote everything correctly. 1MT is an extremely ineffective ammunition. It just does not make economic sense to change completely combat-ready Topol-M on alert before their expiration date is still far away. And the Voevods have already defended theirs with an overlap. Of course, hitting with three 100KTs is much more effective than hitting with a megaton. Everything is so, that's why Yars replace the outdated Poplar with megabugged monoblock heads of 0.75Mt. And maybe not 20, but twice as many and even three times as many will die, but 350 million people live in the States. and the military and command and control infrastructure is unlikely to suffer to the point of being unable to continue the war, even after the exchange of XNUMX missiles.
    What happened in the early 90s is not the early 20s. There it is not here.
    The Kh-32 with the new fuel and lubricants is theoretically capable of conducting an independent search, and its capabilities are not yet clear. But at least her head was sharpened for it. And the dagger is a product of politics, not the military-industrial complex. LRASM is a network-centric solution equipped with AFAR, a powerful processor module and an AI algorithm that have been working out for almost a decade, but where does the Russian Federation have network-centricity, AFAR and processing power and decades of AI development? And for how long will the Dagger have time to correct its triple and at what speed? It's not me who needs to be nervous, but the taxpayers who are being forced into this unscientific crap. This is your reflection about the owners, this is a patriotic dance for you, so you are reflecting on everyone. It just doesn't occur to others, your reflections. But you will not understand this, you have never gone beyond the scope of your reflections. Life by reflections just does not add health. This is probably why your average life expectancy is significantly lower.
  • Leontrotsky
    Leontrotsky 12 May 2021 10: 12
    0
    Again you are talking about approaching "without an engine")))) It seems that, except for shooting at the maximum distance, other Russian anti-ship missiles do not shoot at other Russian anti-ship missiles. And they fly up to the target without a gram of fuel in the tank)) To make you feel better, remove from the maximum range of 50 km and consider that All Russian anti-ship missiles shoot at this range. And they fly up to the target quite capable of carrying out an anti-missile maneuver.))) Onyx has an active radar seeker. I have not seen any mention of the optical component in it. And in the final section, only trajectory correction is needed. For again, I repeat, 40-50 km, which Onyx flies at low altitude at a speed of 1,6 to 1,9 Mach, in the final section, will be overcome in a minute and a half. And during this time, any NK, even at full speed at 30 knots, will move from the aiming point by two or three hulls. So, in fact, the correction is necessary here. ))) But the coolest thing is that you shoot at maximum ranges, in your wet fantasies, only with Russian anti-ship missiles))) And your LRASMs always fly up to the target with an almost full tank, capable of still searching for an area with a radius of 60 km) )) It was already, my dear, in the early 80s, relax. ) And those tomahawks were removed from service. Firstly, there was a risk that they would go to, say, the Allied transport, which is quite capable of being in this area and does not have a "friend or foe" warning system, and secondly, if this misunderstanding, called LRASMOM, reaches the point in an hour , where the target has long been gone, then with all the desire to search the entire area with a radius of 60 km (which will only increase, the NK then goes further and further) - there will not be enough fuel. Imagine it ends even in American wunderwolf)))
    I will bring to your attention that all modern GOS have a powerful processor on board and electronic images of the main NK "partner" collected in peacetime, moreover, they even make it possible to get not only into NK itself, but also into its most vulnerable part.This applies to Onyxes as well. The main task of the designers of Soviet anti-ship missiles has always been the fight against the American AUG, so in this case, they also worked for more than a decade, which is convincing by the example of Granit, who, as early as 80, could redistribute targets between anti-ship missiles as part of a salvo, move a number of anti-ship missiles, in while the anti-ship missile, which took over the control functions, could fly 10-12 km and monitor the situation and redistribute targets in the final section of the trajectory. This is just implemented in lrasm.
    As for a nuclear explosion, I am once again convinced that you are a poor student in physics))) At one time, within the walls of the Naval Military School, I had such a subject as ZOMP. There, we with special rulers, knowing the power of the explosion, calculated its main damaging factors.))) So, the larger the megaton in the explosion, the greater the power, intensity and duration of its damaging factors. Sorry for the obvious things, but you categorically refuse to understand them. And the object that will destroy 1 mgtn. may not give in to 300ktn. Remember how many problems were caused by Chernobyl or Focusim. And here there will be thousands of Chernobyls, in a much worse version. In addition, dams will be hit, for example, and chemical plants ... Can you imagine the consequences of this? And the radioactive contamination? Remember Japan, how many died from the consequences of only 50 kt of explosions? So, dear, t. Timokhin is a dilettante, since he writes about such things.
    As for the duration of life, everyone lives it as he wants. And our peasants give the most complete and productive age to the country. And to smoke the sky at 65 + is good for the country or not, that's another question.))))
  • Leontrotsky
    Leontrotsky 25 May 2021 21: 21
    0
    А вот Вам очередной "привет" любезный-https://yandex.ru/news/story/Naaviabazu_KHmejmim_vpervye_pribyli_tri_bombardirovshhika_Tu-22M3--a598f94bbfe8b1c96085a492b8975864?from=newswizard&lang=ru&persistent_id=144718775&rubric=army&stid=NBGSXovv5ONVreswGklh&tt=true&wan=1&wizard=story
    Tu-22m3, which are not found in nature, in the amount of 3 pieces arrived at the airbase in Khmeimim.)) Probably so that the Berks' sleep was sweeter))
  • 3danimal
    3danimal 9 May 2021 16: 05
    -1
    With LRASM everything is clear - when it comes to the point, the slow speed, with such a "full-time radio horizon" from a height of 100 meters, and even with excitement, who will he look for?

    LRASM can receive data in flight, correcting course.
    At 430 km from the target, an E-2 (or an RTR aircraft) flies giving target designation. The appearance of subtle anti-ship missiles will be known when they are visually detected. Insidious things.
    He said that even if the Russian Federation releases its entire nuclear arsenal across the United States, well, 15-20 million will die

    More will die, but preventive actions (hunting US submarines in places of SSBN patrols, using their numerical and qualitative advantage, strikes on the “berths” in case some of the “strategists” do not go out on patrol) can significantly reduce the force of the strike (at least a third of the nuclear submarines are deployed on SLBMs ).
    Such a move is not available to the Russian Navy.
  • Leontrotsky
    Leontrotsky 2 May 2021 02: 10
    +1
    By the way, the color of the rocket doesn't prove anything. Firstly, a photo of the combat version can give a lot of unnecessary information to the "partners", and secondly, on the contrary, the TU-22m3 hooked up to the TU-22m3, even if the test version says only one thing - that with the TU 22m3 it can be launched (the TU-32m32m is actually after all, not yet in nature, according to you). So I apologize personally that Comrade Shoigu himself did not personally inform you and the entire Israeli people by telephone about how things are actually going with the Kh-22. And I limited myself to the snapshot that I needed to publish the bill)))) In any case, if you think that both the Kh-3 and Tu-XNUMXmXNUMX, capable of shooting them, are not in nature, tell the American duzi, let them go boldly into the sea dug out by the ukrami and head straight for the Crimea. We are looking forward to them in order to transfer Sevastopol to another ovsky base))))))
  • ironic
    ironic 2 May 2021 12: 55
    -1
    Yeah. it sounds very patriotic, but it doesn't look like the truth. This suggests that there is one test aircraft and that there are none more. And there is theoretically another M3M, which is not known at what stage of readiness. And it's all.
    I'm not going to transfer anything to anyone. I am not an official person and I am not an intermediary for anyone. And they came in and will go in without my important pereselo and neither the Aerospace Forces, nor the Black Sea Fleet will release anything at them and will not shoot, and you yourself guess why, but yes it does not sound very patriotic.
  • Leontrotsky
    Leontrotsky 2 May 2021 14: 06
    +1
    Well, well, you do not believe in X-32, but what about zircons, daggers and avant-gardes?)))) It's okay that these TASS messages go on the air from time to time-https: //tass.ru/armiya -i-opk / 10233001)))) That is, an OFFICIAL confirmation of the fact of shooting with zircons is announced. It's okay that in the official news feed there are reports of an earlier, October, shooting with zircons, with a link to the press service of the Ministry of Defense (official, as they say, nowhere) -https: //yandex.ru/video/preview/? FilmId = 11718688193640220274 & parent -reqid = 1619952185454969-424179616105481573000110-production-app-host-vla-web-yp-154 & path = wizard & text =% D1% 86% D0% B8% D1% 80% D0% BA% D0% BE% D0% BD + 22350 + % D0% BF% D1% 80% D0% B5% D1% 81% D1% 81 +% D1% 81% D0% BB% D1% 83% D0% B6% D0% B1% D0% B0 +% D0% BC% D0% B8% D0% BD% D0% B8% D1% 81% D1% 82% D0% B5% D1% 80% D1% 81% D1% 82% D0% B2% D0% B0 +% D0% BE% D0% B1% D0% BE% D1% 80% D0% BE% D0% BD% D1% 8B & wiz_type = vital & url = http% 3A% 2F% 2Ffrontend.vh.yandex.ru% 2Fplayer% 2F3969667452792674075
    Again, from the side 22350))) Well, if all this is fake and fired, for example, Onyxes, why are your English-speaking, not even the media, but professionals, represented by the Pentagon, silent? On the contrary, they say that America needs to harness and urgently catch up with Russia in terms of hypersound)) Well, if all this is a lie, you have a first-class satellite system that can distinguish the stars on the shoulder straps of Russian military personnel (so you give the detected fact of launch, the fact of hitting the target and show by the timestamps that the anti-ship missile was flying at a speed of not Mach 8, but only 2,6 and, therefore, hypersound, new and advertised, cannot be). In general, you, sir, have a difficult choice, either to admit that zircon exists (there was no hype and evidence, after the tests in the Barents Sea, after all, on this topic)), or that the American satellite tracking system for the surface situation and the PRN-complete shit, since it was not able to detect neither the fact of the zircon launch itself, nor the time and distance of its flight, before the anti-ship missile hit the target))) Choose what you like best))))
    I would like from you, at the same time, to find out how the system (which, by the way, is even more terrible for Arlie Berks X-32), I mean the dagger, has been on alert duty in the Crimea and Polar-https: // ria since December 2017 .ru / 20180505 / 1519956972.html, infa passed through the official channels of information .... and again from the side of the "most truthful media" there are no refutations, but there is one hysteria)))) To be honest, as a former serviceman, it is completely incomprehensible to me , how you can put a non-existent product on the database, knowing which events you need to go through)))) But what about the Avangarads?))) https://ria.ru/20191227/1562938634.html Moreover, the news feed gives a link to the words MORPH S.Kh. Shoigu and his report to the Supreme))))
    Again, they did not send video frames especially for you?))) Completeness, video frames do not always tell the truth. Remember the film about the landing of amers on a blooper moon, starting with developing flags and ending with completely crazy shadows, exactly the same as from the spotlights in paillonah?)) Besides, lying to amers is not the first time (this is to the question of honesty in their media). I'm about 1911 and about Robert Peary. Who said that he furnished Amudsen himself, was the first to arrive at the North Pole, presented more photos from the North Pole. The hype in the "most truthful press" was even worse than now. But, unfortunately, he was neither a glyceologist, nor a snowman. And experts from the photo identified that a similar texture of snow is possible only in Greenland, where R. Peary spent the winter (later they found his hut and took testimonies from local residents who saw him at that time)) Remember this. And Russia, be grateful, firstly, because it did a lot so that Israel, as a state, gained life, and secondly, for the fact that at the cost of the lives of its soldiers it saved millions of your compatriots from painful death in concentration camps))))
  • ironic
    ironic 2 May 2021 14: 34
    -1
    Zircon is not yet known what and how. 8-9M was his maximum speed according to open data in the last test, and the average was somewhere around 4.5M. Precisely according to the time and distance to the target. A dagger as an anti-ship missile is generally from bezishodnost. This is an aerobalistic version of Iskander, with changes, but the base is exactly the same. And Vanguard is generally a glider. Moreover, judging by the weight and size characteristics, weighing tons. And judging by the capabilities of the warhead, it does not possess special accuracy. And they are armed with exactly 4 pieces, according to open data.
    Firstly, we should not be grateful to anyone except ourselves for the creation of Israel and the USSR (not Russia) was not the only one who voted for and what followed after Israel's rejection of the communist course is definitely not worth our gratitude. And the KA soldiers, among whom there were many Jews, judging by the number of awards as a percentage of the number who fought among the best among all nationalities of the USSR, they did not go to fight at all to save the Jews, but to save the country from the attack of the fascist bloc and as part of the anti-Hitler the coalition, which, in fact, took part in saving everyone who ended up in concentration camps from destruction. Your attack is deeply immoral, and the smile of an emoticon after it does not fit into any frame at all. I had no doubt that everything unpatriotic about the VO controversy ends up in racist attacks in the end. Not set off to you. negative
    PS And it would be nice for you not to forget that Israel is one of the few Western countries that has not joined the sanctions against the Russian Federation!
  • Leontrotsky
    Leontrotsky 2 May 2021 15: 13
    +2
    This is not a credit to you))) For there were no more Jews in the Red Army than there were Russians, Ukrainians or Belorussians in percentage terms. So, as you can put it mildly, Auschwitz and Treblinek fell not only through the efforts of Soviet soldiers of Jewish nationality. Most of the work was done by the Russians, since in terms of prowess they were most in the Red Army. Yes, freeing the Jews from Auschwitz was not the first priority, but the main thing was to defend the Motherland. But the liberation of the Jews was also part of the tasks of the units of the Red Army. If help had not come, there would have been no Jews, sooner or later in these camps. In your opinion, this is not worth gratitude?
    And about the creation of Israel ... remember that you wandered around the world and did not have a homeland, while the USSR (let me remind you that Russia is its successor) and the Soviet European bloc, after the war, had enormous weight around the world, including political. And if Stalin had said “no,” no matter what isril, no one would have heard. In my opinion, this is also worth something. Do you condemn the actions of the USSR after you began to pursue an open anti-Soviet policy?)) And what the USSR should have thanked you for that?) In any case, politics is politics, and Israel is alive and well. And this is also worth remembering))) And there is no anti-Semitism not to blame the one who reminded you of how it was the case, which you prefer not to remember.
    Once again about the Zircon, if it does not develop such a speed, where are the squeals of the Americans that this anti-ship missile is not hypersonic? Can you hear them? You have seen a demonstrative video from satellites on this topic (you are such a fan of demanding it!)))) There are only the history and the US command and their media. And no denials.
    Bazaeta Iskander is not Iskander, it doesn't matter. If the RCC develops less than 10 Machs and flies Mach 2, where are the satellite footage, statements and denials from NATO ????
    Have you also studied the avant-garde of those documentation?))) And you know all the subtleties of its work. share a link where did you get information about her? Because in Russian content, information about him is extremely scarce. And you make such conclusions as if you are the general designer)))
  • ironic
    ironic 2 May 2021 16: 22
    -1
    And therefore, for many types of awards, for some reason, they are in 4th place among the nationalities of the former USSR, so it's not good for you. And the fact that all the soldiers won, and not someone specific by nationality, so it is more likely you need to tell than me, because from the context of your posts, you probably know this to a lesser extent. In your country, only the Russians won. Thanks are given to all the liberated and all the soldiers of the anti-Hitler coalition, Soviet soldiers, British, French, Spanish and Italian anti-fascists, Serbian partisans, etc. etc., and you will promote great-power chauvinism even in such a matter as the results of WWII.
    You think so, but we had a homeland that was taken away from us and every year, in every generation they said - next year in Jerusalem, 2000 years in a row. But you don't know that. What would happen if grandmother was a grandfather, we all know, and Stalin needed a bridgehead, which he thought he would get with Jewish hands and blood, when it didn’t work out for him, he became the worst enemy for Jews not only in BV, but also in the USSR ... The case of doctors and the preparation of the deportation of Jews from the European part of the Arctic Circle was stopped only by his death. It was the USSR that began to pursue an openly anti-Jewish policy, while Israel defended itself, including from the Czechoslovak scenario, and did the right thing. And this was not the case, and it was precisely the anti-Semitic policy that produced the history of the creation of modern Israel in such a way, and it was for this connotation that Israel made the correct conclusion that the well-being in the creation and survival of Israel can only be the work of the Jews themselves and Israel itself, and rightly so.

    Zircon develops such a speed, but it is not clear in which part of the trojectory and how it all works, even at an unclassified, popular scientific level. When it is clear, we will discuss.

    The information that the Avangard warhead is in its design a glider based on the Spiral's developments, sliding along the upper edge of the atmosphere was first published in the Russian-speaking sector. Then a launch was made at the test site, after which confirmation appeared in the English-speaking sector. The avant-garde in the amglophone computer science is not mentioned except as a glider.
  • Leontrotsky
    Leontrotsky 2 May 2021 19: 48
    +1
    Oh, sir)) No one denies that the Russians were not the only ones who won the war. victory was common and Russian and Ukrainian and Belarusian and Jewish. Yes, the Jews were heroes of the USSR. Yes, they fought well, even fought well. But would they be able to free their brothers by fighting on their own? Outside the Red Army? And about the allies ... I wonder why you did not mention the Americans and the British and did not leave them the right to make a decisive contribution to the victory.))
    Yes, the Americans supplied the USSR with lend-lease (which, by the way, the USSR paid back in 80). According to various estimates, its share amounted to 4 to 7 percent of the GDP produced by the USSR during the war years. But, I will note, it was mainly in recent years, when the outcome of the war was clear. And when Lend-Lease was needed desperately, for example, on the eve of the Battle of Stalingrad ... there were cases like with the PQ-17 convoy, whose transports were abandoned by the British escort ships, and they themselves went to look for Tirpitz, who, on that sultry noon, never came out from base. The convoy was defeated, both by German aviation and by submarine, and a few units reached Murmansk and Arkhangelsk.
    Further ... we must not forget the "contribution" of the Allies to the establishment of German industry. General Motors created a fleet of trucks of the Third Reich and 70 percent of the trucks on which the German infantry traveled across Russia - the creation of this particular company. Standard Oil supplied Garmania with oil, this blood of war and additives in aviation fuel, thanks to which the Goering chicks burned much less often than they could. "The scale of assistance to Germany from leading American corporations was amazing. Thus, Standard Oil invested $ 120 million in Germany, General Motors $ 35 million, ITT $ 30 million, Ford $ 17,5 million. And you have to understand that the million dollars of the 1930s is by no means the modern million dollars. " I mean, if you count who the "lend-lease" got more - the USSR or Germany ... I'm not sure that the USSR would have won in this nomination.
    Let us also recall the British loan: "Following the Americans, the British also pulled up - in June 1933, Schacht met with the head of the British Bank N. Montague, after which London provided loans to Berlin totaling two billion dollars." Fabulous prices for those times)))
    So who fought and how, just look at the GDP during the war years. While the USSR was in ruins, the United States doubled its GDP. And the USSR should thank Uncle Sam?))) For doing business on blood?))) And after the war, everyone understood everything. Look at the map of the USSR before 1941 and in 1945. Why would the field of Europe become Soviet? Because then everyone knew perfectly well who and how much paid for this victory)))
  • ironic
    ironic 3 May 2021 00: 09
    0
    Mentioned. Britons. Are there no Americans? Yes, the Americans, of course, too. At a certain stage, Lend-Lease saved the USSR, and then, beyond the Urals, they raised the industry. There is a different opinion about the role of Lendleese in the victory.
    https://www.svoboda.org/a/30538060.html
    About the 17th convoy, everything else that could be read in the languages ​​that I know. It is not as simple as you have imagined, although the fault of the British Ministry of the Navy in its defeat is considerable. Let's not forget about the role of the USSR in the formation of certain industrial areas in Germany ..
    https://citifox.ru/2017/02/14/kak-sssr-pomogal-gitleru-strannye-fak/
    Yes, the United States is the real winner of the war. We lost the least, won the most. You need to thank for Lend-Lease, and you need to learn how to win wars.
  • Leontrotsky
    Leontrotsky 4 May 2021 20: 42
    0
    Is the USA the winner?)))) Once again I tell you, look at the map of Europe before the start of the war and after 1945. And tell me later, how did it happen that the "winner" of the field of Europe went to the Soviet camp?)))) Huh .... Radio Liberty)))))) won how, it turns out that under 80 percent of the USSR GDP was lend-lease) )) My dear, if this were so, then my grandfather would have fought not on the T-34, but on an American or English tank. ))))) Moreover, I will tell you that in childhood, when I was still a pioneer, soldiers were invited to school on the day of victory, and many were tankers, pilots, and just infantrymen. Amerskaya stew, yes. Recalled. But only two veterans, for all the years that have passed in such events, said that they fought on Lendleut equipment.))) And Radio Svoboda smiled ... on the one hand, it cites the figures of historians ... and on the other side of the scale puts the supposedly overheard conversation of Zhukov.))) Naturally, without any solid evidence, suggesting that the Anglo-Saxon liars take their word for it))) After Petrov and Boshirov, my dear man, I can’t, with all my heart. And I will believe myself, because I myself and more than once, communicated with those. who brought us victory. And the role of the lend-lease, in these stories was only a refrain, at best)))
    And what about lend-lease assistance in "the most difficult time"))) The lend-lease agreement between the USSR and America was signed in June ... 1942.))) That is, when the defense of Moscow was already in place, and the Battle of Stalingrad loomed on the nose. (Let us recall once again what happened to that convoy, which was necessary, like air, on its eve.) So, before the turning point in the war, and in the USSR, it was just the battle of Stalingrad, which ended in January 43, about mass deliveries. lend-lease in the USSR, there can be no talk, otherwise you have to assume. that in six months, the entire lend-lease was delivered to the USSR, including the one that went to the bottom with PQ17))))
    So, alas, the USSR spent the most difficult time almost without help, and only when it became clear that victory was leaning towards the USSR's side did the lend-lease go more or less regularly. In fact, from whom would you have to charge for the Soviet lend-lease in the event of Hitler's victory? Not with Adolf))) And that is precisely why, at the beginning of the war, while the situation was clearly not in Soviet favor, the "partners" were not particularly zealous in this matter. Well, unless, of course, you do not take into account the "overheard words of Zhukov"))))
  • ironic
    ironic 5 May 2021 13: 28
    0
    Poleuropes went to the Soviet camp at the cost of 25 million. lives. Berlin was taken by an army of millions. And the allies took almost the same half of Europe both faster and with much smaller losses. That is exactly how they fought in western cars, half on western steam locomotives and riveted armor from half western steel, until full-scale production from the exported factories was restored beyond the Urals. My grandfathers were also veterans, their memory is blessed, and so they remembered what cars almost the entire command staff of the spacecraft drove, what cars the legendary Katyushas and not only were assembled in, and whose paravoses were dragging disassembled machines and equipment beyond the Urals. And why should I consider them liars, and soviet propaganda not liars? And those facts on which R.S. are referred to as rigged, and the Krasnosovkovye urapatriotic ones, known for their lies to their own citizens, honest and justified? I, as it were, was also born in the USSR, graduated from a school and a university in it and, as it were, no less than you communicated with veterans, and for some reason those with whom I spoke, gave the lend-lease their due, and those with whom you did not put him in anything serious. Don't you think that the whole point here is who communicated, and not the veterans, with whom you communicated? You even misinterpreted the date of the beginning of the supply of equipment for the sake of propaganda. Namely December 1941.
    / / /
    On October 30, 1941, President Roosevelt, determined to keep the United States out of the war while helping those allies already mired in it, approves $ 1 billion in Lend-Lease loans to the Soviet Union. The terms: no interest and repayment did not have to start until five years after the war was over.
    The Lend-Lease program was devised by President Roosevelt and passed by Congress on March 11, 1941.
    / / /
    So why, after such a trivial lie, do I still have to believe in something engaged in pseudo-patriotism? After that, do you turn your tongue to criticize Radio Liberty? negative

    PS I don't know what exactly Petrov and Bashirov did, but one of the creators of the Novice, Major General, by rank, at one time liquidated the Mossad, for an attempt to put him in the wrong hands about the fact that this substance or its derivative is walking around Europe , whoever applied / applied it, is responsible for his festivities on the legal successor of the USSR and nothing more.
  • Leontrotsky
    Leontrotsky 6 May 2021 02: 07
    0
    Well, about 25 million lives, don't lie to yourself)))) Forgive me, I'm not referring to Radio Liberty))) Even about 30 million Soviet citizens died in the war. But this is together with the civilian population. The losses of the Red Army were about 8,6 million (according to the 1987 commission). By the way, there is still no official data on the loss of Germany in the war. It is believed that about 6 million. So the combat losses are quite comparable (if we still remember how many prisoners of war returned from Stalin's camps to Romania, Italy, Hungary, Germany, Austria, etc.) and how many Soviet servicemen returned from German concentration camps. So the losses are quite comparable.))) As for Europe, I agree here))) It was necessary not to lay down our soldiers during the liberation of Prague and Warsaw, but to equate these cities with the ground with aviation and artillery. Apot to knock out those who survived. The bombing of Dresden is an example for us)))
    About lend-lease once again, read the historians, the maximum indicated is a figure of 7 percent of the USSR's GDP. If the losses among our grandfathers and great-grandfathers can be estimated, if only because in almost every family there was at least one victim, then the units defending the bridge across the Volga did not hear about the American stew, in my native Yaroslavl. strange, if you believe your Radio Liberty, which claims that 87% of the USSR's GDP was lendleut)))) Well, at least lie more modestly))))
  • ironic
    ironic 6 May 2021 03: 20
    0
    Already counted up to 30? Well, the last time I read it, I double-checked the published data. And that this is not death or what? And 8.7 is the number of your officialdom, but there is an opinion that in fact it is about 14. The approximate total losses of Germany were once published at 17 million, and the military 5.3 million, together with Austria and from other countries, 4.3 only for German losses. Even so, they are unlikely to be comparable.
    I just read historians, some of them say that other sources are not historians at all and vice versa. Why should I believe what you like? Are there fewer immodest liars among your strippers? And why should I believe this, if my grandfather, the pompotech of the division of guards mortars, said that in 41 the entire wheel park in the units near Moscow was mostly western? request
  • Leontrotsky
    Leontrotsky 6 May 2021 15: 05
    0
    Yes, these are official figures. But why not believe the official data? Do you believe in fairy tales about the Skripals?))) But seriously, there are still 22 million left for civilians)))) Of course, this is life. Only the essence of your presence is not clear. )) Why civilians died is a question to those who bombed them, held them in a blockade, shot them at Babi Yar)))) Then what are the claims to the USSR.?
    Here you are an eccentric person!)) About the German 5,3 million remembered. Did you remember about Romanian, Italian, Hungarian (there are a lot of graves under Voronezh, then Hungarian, and there are still memories of atrocities by Hungarians in those places), Polish, Norwegian, Czechoslovak? did you take them into account? Look at the names of the SS divisions and learn from them the geography of all of Europe. And there was also the Wehrmacht. And police units. And security battalions. And KRIPO-ZIPO.)))) So you count the total losses. All of Europe, which fought on the side of Hitler)))) And it becomes somehow incomprehensible when you see a Romanian cemetery under Stalingrad)))
    Why should you trust historians convenient to me? I will repay you in the same coin, why should I believe yours?)))) In that nonsense that RS carries?))) For, again, there are absolutely obvious official data on this))) And you suggest me to believe unofficial , and even those publications that are under the full control of the "older brother"))))
  • ironic
    ironic 6 May 2021 15: 51
    0
    Because a considerable part of the officialdom has proved to be untrustworthy, especially the stripe. I don't believe in anything. I didn't check what happened to the Skripals. I know that in every fairy tale there is only a fraction of a fairy tale and that the military nerve agent turned out to be outside the laboratories of the USSR receiver, which pledged not to release it from there, again according to international agreements. And this is no longer a fairy tale. And whether Petrov, Bashirov, Skripal, Navalny, these are already aspects that are presented in the hands of the information field this way and that way.
    What has it to do with what I remembered, it's just public data. For German soldiers alone, a lower figure of 4.3 million is called. The names of the SS and Rusland divisions are listed. According to the data, all this adds to the expanded 5.3 million. These are the total army losses of the German side with the entire "foreign legion" in this side. It does not mean the loss of the countries of the entire Hitlerite axis. Namely, the German army and the foreign units that fought on its side. Only German is a million less.
    You don’t owe anyone anything at all if you didn’t take a loan from the bank and if the opposite is not proven in court. I will not argue that Western historians are a cohort of perfect righteous people, but I know exactly where the Soviets lied and where certain contemporary historians are lying after them. Therefore, I don’t believe it, but I know that they are lying. It is clear that not everything and not everything, but in some ways I do not need even Western historians, themselves with a mustache. And under the control of Soviet and now certain modern stripe-makers, which is better? I know about the numerous lies of this officialdom not from the Western media. I do not believe! I know!
  • Leontrotsky
    Leontrotsky 6 May 2021 16: 33
    0
    "But, in my opinion, we are in a bit of a hurry. After all, so far no one knows for sure what the people were poisoned with. The substance that everyone is talking about is A234 Novichok," British Foreign Secretary Boris Johnson said. admit that the UK has samples of this substance, otherwise it is very difficult to identify the chemical as quickly as London did, and laboratory tests can take weeks if no sample is available.

    So, the UK definitely has A234. Local media even named a laboratory in Porton Down where they could work with him. But these are not all the owners of this substance. "-Https: //www.mk.ru/politics/2018/03/29/ekspert-nazval-strany-gde-proizvodyat-novichok-sredi-nikh-ssha.html
    That's right, for a snack. To begin with, it would be worthwhile to figure out where the newbie is produced. By the way, not only in Great Britain))) This is the first thing. And secondly, how the BOV works could be seen in the example of Hottaba-chel for a week vomited and asked for only one thing - to be shot. And only then he opened a letter from his mother soaked in real BOV. And then all the victims, including Navalny, escaped with only a mild form of gonorrhea))) Moreover, having pierced once on a newcomer, Russia uses it again, in the case of Navalny ... with the same result))) So have, at least sometimes, courage , do not hide your head in the sand)))) I'll say the same about myself, seeing what they did to my country in the 0s, to believe, even for the very dollar to the west, it's just ridiculous)))) And they lie so that officialdom and the USSR and Russia to study and study)))))
    You give me not your chatter here, but links to sources. ))) Where and who specifically estimated the German losses at 5,3 million, coupled not only with those who fought on the side of the axis. (by the way, Japan is included there, I wonder?), but with the units of the Balts, ROA, Ukrainians, and other countries not included in the axis, but nevertheless, providing assistance to the Wehrmacht and the SS.
    In general, provide a link to this publicly available data)))
  • ironic
    ironic 9 May 2021 15: 14
    +1
    Laboratory samples for identification and the use of a warhead in action are two very big differences. And why is your military expert who knows so much about the production of the origins of the Newbie in the United States for some reason is silent about who, in the rank of major general, liquidated the Mossad for trying to smuggle this muck into the BV? Unpatriotic?

    So so. You will discuss chatter with your family, should I give you data publicly available in 2 minutes of searching on the Internet with such requests on a tray? Hire a secretary, I'm not your servant. By the way, it also includes the Rusland division, which you understand why you do not mention. Unpatriotic.
  • 3danimal
    3danimal April 28 2021 04: 07
    0
    if you like, let Onyx have EPR-0,2, and AGM-0,1

    Of the EPR values ​​I found, 0,1 m2 has a Tomahawk, 0,01 - X-101.
    A large rocket (X-101), due to the use of stealth technologies, has 10 (!) Times smaller.


    The shape of the rocket and its nose scatters radar radiation. On the new "block V", the nose is also more diffuse.
    Now we recall the corner reflector in the nose (the most noticeable stagnation of the KR) and its shape - a perfect circle in cross-section.

    So, I think, we are talking about a value from 0,5 m2 and more for Onyx, in supersonic flight, due to air seals at the air intake cone, this parameter may increase even more (you have to pay for everything). The diameter of the P-800 is 0,67 m, the Tomahawka is 0,53 m.
    For LRASM I will suggest a value between 0,01 and lower (smaller than X-101 dimensions, better shape and RPM).

    The second aspect is the heating of the bow to 680'C when flying at 2M at low altitude. (And this does not allow using fragile RPMs here, only steel and titanium).

    For near-field missiles, this is a gift, the same RIM-166 SeaRAM missile has a passive radar sensor (catches the radiation of the anti-missile missile system) and IR seeker from Stinger.
  • Leontrotsky
    Leontrotsky April 30 2021 00: 54
    +1
    You can think about anything))) You can provide a reference specifically for the Onyx EPR. By the way, I told you the same thing that the EPR of modern anti-ship missiles is in the range of 0,1-02. The LRASM has the same trouble as the ax - obscenely low speed and flight altitude. If the X-32 from a height of 40 km has a radio horizon of 700 km (more than the detection and target acquisition range of the seeker), then what radio horizon will be from a height of 20-30 m? And this despite the fact that it is necessary to get to the meeting place with the target, at best, in the region of an hour (the NK at a speed of 20 knots will move 40 km from the aiming point during this time and obviously will not fit into the radio horizon lrasma. You will have to adjust its trajectory all the time. This is not always possible. But most importantly, during a real battle, "leading" the anti-ship missile system to the target is too fatty pleasure, when every fighter will have too little time anyway (if only because it is very likely that he will have to repulse an attack on his NK), and the main postulate of modern ammunition-shot and forgotten. Let's take the same X-32. It flies at an altitude of 40 km, at a speed of up to Mach 5, even if they can see it well ... but they cannot shoot it down. For, firstly, SN6 reaches only up to 33 km, and secondly, at an altitude of 40 km, any antimissiles practically lose their main property, maneuverability, and their radius of destruction is compressed to obscenity. I don’t want to be unfounded- "At the same time, most of the X-32 flight takes place at an altitude unattainable for any anti-aircraft missiles. For example, for the most advanced anti-aircraft guided missile (SAM) of the US Navy SM-6, the maximum interception height is 33 kilometers. At the same time, at such an interception height, the boundary of the affected area decreases sharply, and the missile practically loses its ability to maneuver - the anti-aircraft missile simply "fizzles out" (since most of the flight flies by inertia), and given that the American SAM family "Standard" have aerodynamic rudders, any effective maneuvering required to intercept such a complex target is simply impossible. It is possible to try to shoot down the Kh-32 only after it begins to dive towards the target, however, in this case, intercepting a missile rushing at a speed of more than 5M is an extremely difficult task even for the most advanced air defense systems. One can often come across an assertion that the American SM-32 anti-missile missile can "get" the X-3. However, this statement is absurd. SM-3 is designed exclusively for intercepting ballistic missiles, for which the so-called. exoatmospheric kinetic interceptor. This is a kinetic interceptor, which is a small homing device with a matrix thermal homing head, a control module and shunting micromotors. As its name suggests, it is designed to intercept ballistic missile warheads outside the atmosphere. At the moment, the minimum target hitting altitude with this kinetic interceptor is 90 kilometers, and cannot be used for aerodynamic targets such as the X-32 SM-3. "
  • 3danimal
    3danimal April 30 2021 01: 15
    -1
    Flies at an altitude of 40 km

    Is it difficult to include logic? This is NOT an aircraft, a development of the Kh-22 with a more powerful LPRE engine.
    40 km - the highest section of the trajectory (in its middle), after which the engine is turned off, the altitude and speed decrease.
    Flight along a pseudo-ballistic trajectory.
    (And at the mark of 30 km, SM-6 will get it)
    I didn’t say anything about SM-3.
  • Leontrotsky
    Leontrotsky April 30 2021 01: 42
    +1
    Can you read?)))) - "What is the difference between the X-32 and its predecessor and what is known about it from open sources? The X-32 is almost completely outwardly identical to the X-22, with a few exceptions. However, the" insides "of the missiles are very significant The X-32 uses a significantly improved starting and sustainer engine. The starting engine now allows you to "lift" the rocket after launch to an altitude of about 40 (!) kilometers. At this altitude, the air density is about the same as the density of the Martian atmosphere and the rocket is practically not meets air resistance, which allows you to dramatically increase both the speed and the range of flight. Apparently, it was possible to increase the thrust of the main engine. Reportedly, the speed of the X-32 increased to 5400 km / h - more than 5M! The range of use according to various estimates is from 600 up to 1000 kilometers. But even with a distance of 600 kilometers, this is more than enough to strike at the AUG of a potential enemy, being out of reach capacity of not only the most "long-range" shipborne air defense systems, but also carrier-based fighters. " the source is the same, sorry, but I have to repeat myself. As for the altitude and speed, there is a link from a trustworthy source. I read that, on the contrary, when approaching the target, the X-32 also makes an anti-missile slide and from a height of 40 km or more begins an almost vertical dive towards the target. And where did you get the idea that when the main engine is turned on, the anti-ship missile system "sags" up to 30 km? To make it more convenient SM apparently.)) Read the article at your leisure -https: //dfnc.ru/c106-technika/chto-predstavlyaet-soboj-novaya-protivokorabelnaya-krylataya-raketa-h-32/
    But from the same article about your sm6- "At the same time, most of the X-32 flight takes place at an altitude unattainable for any anti-aircraft missiles. For example, for the most advanced anti-aircraft guided missile (SAM) of the US Navy SM-6, the maximum interception height is 33 At the same time, at such an altitude of interception, the boundary of the affected area decreases sharply, and the missile practically loses its ability to maneuver - the anti-aircraft missile simply "fizzles out" (since most of the flight flies by inertia), and given that the American missiles of the Standard "have aerodynamic rudders, any effective maneuvering required to intercept such a complex target is simply impossible. You can try to shoot down the Kh-32 only after it starts diving towards the target, however, in this case, intercepting a rocket speeding over 5M - an extremely difficult task even for the most advanced air defense systems. One can often come across the assertion that the American SM-32 anti-missile missile can "get" the X-3. it is absurd. SM-3 is designed exclusively for intercepting ballistic missiles, for which the so-called. exoatmospheric kinetic interceptor. This is a kinetic interceptor, which is a small homing device with a matrix thermal homing head, a control module and shunting micromotors. As its name suggests, it is designed to intercept ballistic missile warheads outside the atmosphere. At the moment, the minimum target hitting altitude with this kinetic interceptor is 90 kilometers, and cannot be used for aerodynamic targets such as the X-32 SM-3. "
  • 3danimal
    3danimal April 30 2021 03: 29
    -1
    I read that on the contrary, when approaching the target, the X-32 also makes an anti-missile slide and from a height of 40

    There is nothing to do the hill, the fuel is used up. A similar thing is possible with cruise missiles with turbojet engines, they take the oxidizer from the atmosphere.
    This is the X-22, but higher and further. Dives, but not vertically.
    and given that the American SAM family "Standard" have aerodynamic rudders, any effective maneuvering required to intercept such a complex target is simply impossible

    RCC maneuvers are possible only after the target is captured by the seeker. Before that, it flies to itself exactly.
    And where did you get the idea that when the main engine is turned on, the anti-ship missile system "sags" up to 30 km?

    Physics, it is unforgiving. The speed is lost, the wings are small.
    30 km and below - about the last third of the trajectory. Massive launches of SM-6 ..
    That end.
    Release 100 X-32 and it will definitely break through, any air defense system can be oversaturated. It's up to the implementation.
    But even with a range of 600 kilometers, this is more than enough to strike a potential enemy's AUG, being beyond the reach of not only the most "long-range" shipborne air defense systems, but also carrier-based fighters. "

    The dream is to fire at the AUG without loss smile
    Is it okay that the E-2D (with AFAR radar) will see a huge conspicuous bomber at a distance of 600 + km?
    Flying 300 km from AB in a threatening direction? And nearby there are F-18 / F-35 patrols, which can be refueled with deck tankers.
    So there will be losses, this is inevitable.
    The main point: how do you know where the AV is going, who will issue target designation?
    A very big problem, there were articles on this topic here.
  • Leontrotsky
    Leontrotsky April 30 2021 10: 57
    +1
    1- "There is nothing to do the hill, the fuel is exhausted. This is possible with cruise missiles with turbojet engines, they take the oxidizer from the atmosphere."
    Very interesting))) And where did you get the idea that the fuel has already been depleted?)) And if the shooting is not for 1000 km, but for 500?))) There is not enough fuel either?))
    2- "and given that the American SAM family" Standard "have aerodynamic rudders, any effective maneuvering required to intercept such a complex target is simply impossible

    RCC maneuvers are possible only after the target is captured by the seeker. Until then, it flies smoothly. "

    It is not entirely clear-ZUR or X-32 you mean. If it concerns the X-32, yes, it flies smoothly, moreover, most of its flight takes place on an inertial plane and the seeker turns on when approaching the target. And, before striking a target, it carries out an anti-missile maneuver in the form of a slide. Firstly, this allows you to evade the missile defense system (as can be seen from the quote given by me. At extreme altitudes, due to the rarefaction of the atmosphere, the maneuvering of the missile defense system is problematic (that is, their most important property is lost). And secondly, kinetic energy is additionally acquired, because from the height of the X-32, it flies almost vertically to the target. What does this threaten? Well, such a kinetic bomb (especially if the fuel is not depleted and its weight is still significant) will penetrate from the keel to the keel. For, I remind you that even armored Hoods and Tirpitz "suitcases" of 300 and 400 arcalibers were stitched, which already speaks of modern ships.

    3- "And where did you get the idea that when the main engine is turned on, the anti-ship missile system" sags "up to 30 km?

    Physics, it is unforgiving. The speed is lost, the wings are small.
    30 km and below - about the last third of the trajectory. "

    Forgive me, but why is the speed lost, if there is still enough fuel?))) The engine runs smoothly, the wings are about three meters, everything seems to be going according to plan))) And the product designers, in this case, it is impossible to understand then. Indeed, to make it more difficult to shoot down anti-ship missiles at the target, on the contrary, it must increase its speed. And then, it turns out, at the beginning of the flight, she gained maximum speed when nothing threatens her, and upon arrival, entering the air defense zone of Arlie Berkov, on the contrary, it drops and drops to 30 km))) (Obviously, the destroyer's air defense would be more convenient to shoot) )) And moreover, I am not even able to carry out this most notorious slide, according to your previous quote))) It is clear that you know what and how best of general designers and directors who carry out the production and testing of this product, but still, so fantasizing is not worth it. ))) Once again I give you a link to a competent source. Read what and how is happening with the X-32))) https://dfnc.ru/c106-technika/chto-predstavlyaet-soboj-novaya-protivokorabelnaya-krylataya-raketa-h-32/

    4-About target designation. I tell you, not as a journalist who has never been on a warship, but as a person who served on 1144 (Kirov at that time) and actively participates in rocket firing at this very control center. When using the same X-32 TSU, it is possible
    -from the Liana system. There were four satellites in orbit at the end of 2020, two Lotus (RTR satellite) and two Pions. At the end of 20, one more Pion was to be launched. I do not know if they launched, this infa passed by, but I’ll take an interest. The control center for the X-32 needs a rather rough one, because we remember that its radio horizon is 700 km at flight altitude.
    -From over-the-horizon observation stations. "Container" is primarily meant. The one that is deployed in Mordovia (range 3000-4000 km)
    -From the aircraft (the same SU-34, which, moreover, recently received new reconnaissance systems -https: //rg.ru/2021/04/12/rossijskie-bombardirovshchiki-su-34-poluchili-novye-kompleksy-razvedki .html or from the A-50, although the A-100 will appear soon.
    -And what is most offensive for me, this method is rarely reminded of, from GAS PL. An NK order going at 20-25 knots is audible at 200-250 km, and the AUG order is even further away. So it will not be difficult to transfer the control center via the SAC-and it will not be difficult and time-consuming.
  • 3danimal
    3danimal April 30 2021 11: 57
    -1
    The control center for the Kh-32 needs a rather rough one, because we remember that its radio horizon is 700 km at a flight altitude

    The horizon is 700 km - it is for the mighty radar of a destroyer or AWACS aircraft. To start taking action early.
    And on the X-32, the GOS sees a destroyer-sized ship from only 50 km away.
    There is a difference in power, you know.
    An NK order going at 20-25 knots is audible at 200-250 km, and the AUG order is even further away. So it will not be difficult to transfer the control center via the SAC-and it will not be difficult and time-consuming.

    Burke you won't hear from 250 km, he has a Masker system for this. You have to come closer. But then he can hear, the LAMPS helicopter, or one of the 2 submarine hunters.
    Again, agreeing on the location of the submarine and the squadron of bombers is a problem.
    If the submarines are found, they will be destroyed. And change course. Additional planes will be lifted into the air.
    from A-50

    Very weak. Even on the Tu-22M3, the radar is more efficient.
    although the A-100 will appear soon.

    Not soon. I read that the problem is in the components.
    Excuse me, but why is the speed lost if there is still enough fuel?)))

    And if the shooting is not for 1000 km, but for 500?))) There is not enough fuel either?))

    Because you want to shoot at maximum range. In this case, the last part of the path, the rocket with the liquid propellant engine flies by inertia.
    You can fly closer, but then there are more chances to get under fire from the patrol.
    At 300 Kmita AB, at an altitude of 10 km, an E-2d AWACS is on duty (what is its radio horizon?), At an elevation of 1000 + km, it will see a huge group target.
    6-8 F-18e nearby, E-2D will coordinate them.
    Tu-22m3 maneuvers poorly, flies high (this is energetically beneficial for the AIM-120D), missiles can be fired at a maximum range of 180 km.
    The insidiousness of the AIM-120 is that you will learn about it only when it turns on its seeker, 20-30km away from you.
    The attack will fail, the bombers will have to get rid of the missiles: fire at the target (if possible) or drop them. Turn around and fly away.
    In such a scenario, they will die with a high probability.
    The seeker turns on when approaching the target

    Yeah, 50 km away.
    There were four satellites in orbit at the end of 2020 - two Lotus (RTR satellite) and two Pions

    Can you imagine how little it is to control even the entire northern water area?
    Not to mention the world's oceans?
    The orbits of the satellites are known, you can guess the exit and movement of AB
    Such a system cannot be called reliable.
  • Leontrotsky
    Leontrotsky April 30 2021 15: 46
    +1
    1- "Horizon 700km - it is for the mighty radar of a destroyer or AWACS aircraft. To start taking action earlier.
    And on the Kh-32, the GOS sees a destroyer-sized ship from only 50 km away. "
    And who said that the Kh-32 detects targets at a distance of 700 km? Do not distort my words.)) I said that the radio horizon is 700 km (which means that at 700 km the GOS could already detect the target if it had the technical capabilities). goals. (it could be hundreds of kilometers). I don’t know about the X-50, but Onyx sees a destroyer 32 km from a height of 10 km, a cruiser 50 km, and an airplane, for sure, even further away.

    2- "You will not hear from 250 km, he has a Masker system for this. You will have to come closer. But then he can hear, a LAMPS helicopter, or one of the 2 submarine hunters.
    Again, agreeing on the location of the submarine and the squadron of bombers is a problem.
    If the submarines are found, they will be destroyed. And change course. Additional planes will be lifted into the air. "

    And the fact that the submarine itself can shoot, it never crossed your mind?))) She is even more inconspicuous Berkov-keeps a certain square, listens to the sea-ocean))) To coordinate the position of the submarine and the aircraft is not a problem. Personally, your humble servant took part in such events. When CU received from a multipurpose submarine.
    3- "although the A-100 will appear soon.

    Not soon. I read that the problem is in the components. "
    not from Ukrainian?)))))))))))))))) Do not read Ukrainian newspapers, neither before bedtime nor at breakfast. ))) Already in 2022 they will enter the videoconferencing.

    4- "You can fly closer, but then there are more chances to get under fire from the patrol.
    At 300 Kmita AB, at an altitude of 10 km the E-2d AWACS is on duty (what is its radio horizon?), At 1000 + km it will see a huge group target. NATO Air Force) Your patrols will not stick out beyond the air defense zone of the destroyers-nose.)))
    Moreover, LA AWACS, this cow will not fly off at a speed of 800 km / h. In addition, you forget that the AWACS plane sees at 700 km, but they hear it even further, with all that it implies))) The target is slow and beautiful. It is guarded, as a rule, by two patrol aircraft. Heels of Dryers will be enough for all this camarilla)))) As for the X-32 and its "inertia flight" followed by a descent of 30 km, consider that it will be launched from 950 km plus 500 (the range of the C-500 and C- 400) a total of 1450 km. Will this alignment suit you better?)) Yes, and when destroyers strike the Black Sea Fleet, it is not at all necessary to destroy exactly those ships that struck. There are a lot of options, for example, to strike with Iskanders, calibers, X-101 at NATO bases in Europe or at any connection of their NK in any part of the world, so there is always a choice.

    5- "The seeker turns on when approaching the target

    Yeah, 50 km away. "

    Once again, the seeker can turn on for 100 km (for example, when attacking the AUG, because the avimatka will be visible from about this distance). And to the target, for the most part of the trajectory), the X-32 will fly 40 km and watch how cm6 will try to get it)))))
    6-Well, first of all, another Peony will be launched into orbit this year. Secondly, the orbits of satellites are 800-900 km, which allows you to track a large and most interesting part of the world's oceans (according to the Deputy Minister of Defense, forgive him more than you do)))) Well, thirdly, I will remind you once again about the over-the-horizon Radar stations, which are not only able to issue a control center at a distance of 3000 km from their coast, both by aircraft and by NK, but also to track the launch of the missile launcher from the destroyers.
  • Leontrotsky
    Leontrotsky April 30 2021 11: 09
    +1
    About losses. In order for the F-18 / F-35 to fly, it is necessary to have dominance in the air. Fighting Russia and fighting Iraq are two different things. in the skies over the Crimea and its environs, the air advantage of the Russian Federation will be overwhelming. Well, even two AUGs will enter the Mediterranean Sea, these are 100 shock aircraft. There are NATO airfields in Europe. But again, in the event of an attack on the Russian Black Sea Fleet, these same airfields, together with amers' bases, will be subjected to strikes by both Iskander, from the direction of Konigsberg, and Kalibrov from the Black Sea Fleet. There is also the X-101. So there are a lot of options. And how the allies will behave - will they allow NATO planes to be based on their territories and that means they will be the first to be put under attack - an open question. Getting a blow on Polish territory (and it is quite possible also on a chemical plant located 30 km from Warsaw) is not the same thing as getting deviants from the maintenance of NATO airfields and bases. The Russian Aerospace Forces will easily, if necessary, transfer their aircraft to the conflict zone. So the F-18 and F-35 will huddle up to their warrant and the air defense zone. Unless, of course, they want to be destroyed. Further, the range of the X-32 is 1000 km. Plus the coverage area of ​​S-400, S-500 up to 500 km. Plus support for TU-22m3. So, if AUG or Arlie Burke, in war conditions, comes closer than 1500 km to the borders of the Russian Federation, they will shoot at it with minimal risk for the shooter)))
  • 3danimal
    3danimal April 30 2021 12: 27
    -1
    Plus support for TU-22m3. So, if AUG or Arlie Burke, in war conditions, comes closer than 1500 km to the borders of the Russian Federation, they will shoot at it with minimal risk to the shooter

    Question: Will the concentration of the Tu-22M3 squadron be noticeable from satellites?
    From what distance can the airfields of the Kyrgyz Republic be attacked?
    At the very least, the probable attack will be known.
    Further: in the event of hostilities, satellites will shoot down. For this, everything is there.
    And 6 mentioned will be among the first.
    On the way, the squadrons from the airbases will take off
    planes.
    If there are blows on them, then retaliatory ones will inevitably go. With losses in means of attack, ships.
    And the possibilities for replenishment are limited.
    But you've gone too far.
    Initially, it was a hypothetical attempt by the squadron to attack with AUG missiles.
    S-500 up to 500 km

    The S-500 will not appear earlier than 2025, and no missiles with such a range have been heard at all.
  • 3danimal
    3danimal April 30 2021 08: 07
    -1
    You provide a reference specifically for the Onyx EPR.

    I did not find the data.
    But there is a table given by me on heating, when flying at different speeds and altitudes. This temperature (680 'by 2M) forces the use of refractory metals just in the most noticeable parts.
    And there is an example of a corner reflector, exactly similar to the Onyx air intake.


    On subsonic anti-ship missiles, they are hidden in the case:

    And on the supersonic P-800, the air intake is located in the most conspicuous place.
    Although there is a "Mosquito" scheme, "MBDA Meteor", where there are several air intakes and they are not in the nose of the rocket.

    Let's take the same X-32. Flies at an altitude of 40 km, at a speed of up to Mach 5

    Declared 4,5M, the highest speed at an altitude of 40 km before the engine stops.
  • 3danimal
    3danimal April 28 2021 04: 32
    -1
    This is what spends most of the Pentagon's budget (including salaries, social benefits and other types of allowances for military personnel) - so that quite comparable values ​​remain for rearmament and development of new types of weapons

    Hypersound that appeared in Russia, and not in the states, despite all their budgets)

    All these references to higher spending on high salaries (as opposed to our scientists and military men forced to puritanize) are just an attempt to equate ourselves, to stand on a par with a superpower, with a budget 15 times larger than ours. In particular, according to the possibilities of promising developments.
    I heard something similar about space here: yes, they say, NASA's budget is 10 times higher, but their salaries are 5 times more than our engineer, but Rogozin gets 5 times more than the head of NASA. This is a modern Russian tradition of income distribution.
    Hypersound? It is a long time ago, for the RIAC, which (air launch) is the Dagger.
    We still don't know anything about Zircon, what kind of engine it has.
  • Leontrotsky
    Leontrotsky April 29 2021 20: 18
    +1
    Nas's budget is larger than ours, and they still fly to the ISS on our Soyuz, although I remember how much excitement was from the launch of the dragon. The same goes for their budget. With a budget 15 times larger than ours, hypersound appeared and was implemented in real products with us, and for some reason not where the budget is immeasurably higher)) There is only one answer - this budget is simply spent not only on aircraft modernization. This is not my opinion. This is the opinion of many military experts in this field. Superpower, you say?))) And at least one war, from a knife, with a serious enemy, this superpower won?)
  • 3danimal
    3danimal April 30 2021 01: 10
    -1
    how much excitement it was to launch the dragon

    The other day a second crew was brought in.
    Dragons will supplant the US Astronaut Delivery Unions.
    And at least one war, from a knife, with a serious enemy, this superpower won?)

    Japan, in one.
    Moreover, on the battlefield where NOBODY could have coped more (the Pacific Ocean).
    By the way, while putting down equipment, food, fuel (more oil was produced than all other countries combined), metals, explosives, medicines.
    Well, Nazi Germany, as one of the allies.
    With a budget 15 times larger than ours, hypersound appeared and was implemented in real products with us

    Rocket hypersound appeared a long time ago. Another X-15.
    The dagger has solid propellant smile
    Where is the scramjet test program similar to the X-51?
  • Leontrotsky
    Leontrotsky April 30 2021 01: 26
    +1
    "In accordance with the flight program of the International Space Station on April 9, 2021 at 10:42 Moscow time, a Soyuz-31a launch vehicle was launched from launch pad No. 2.1 of the Baikonur cosmodrome with the Yu.A. Gagarin manned spacecraft (Soyuz MS- 18) and the crew of the long-term expedition ISS-65. " From the news feed. The next Nasovets was taken as a passenger. The same was said about reusable shuttles. But it turned out that in order to repair a reusable one that returned from orbit, money needs to be pumped in more than to build a new Union. Moreover, the union has been tested over the decades. That's when the dragons replace the Alliances, then we'll talk. While we are carrying Nasu as passengers.
    Japan?)) Honor serious historians, not those who tell how Ukrainians dug the Black Sea) Japan surrendered, after the USSR entered the war and the Kwantung army was defeated))) And not even after the atomic bombings)) As for the supply of fuel, food and so on ... The US GDP during the war years has doubled (this is to who and how fought))), and the USSR paid for the lend-lease back in the 80s)) By the way, the bulk of the lend-lease went to the USSR at the end of the war. 41, when all the decisive events happened and when he was especially needed. According to various estimates, the share of lend-lease from what was produced by the USSR itself ranged from 43 to 4 percent. According to different sources, different numbers. But that's not even the point. The United States had no less investment in Germany - General Motors supplied 7 percent of the Wehrmacht trucks, which were then driven by motorized German infantry, Standard Oil supplied fuel (blood of war), additives in aviation gasoline, which made it more difficult ignition (Hitler himself considered these additives to be paramount, there is even a quote from him on this topic), Hugo Bose sewed a uniform for the SS troops. In general, where more "lend-lease" was invested -In the USSR or Germany, the big question)))) Who won the war and how valuable is the help of the allies? Look at the map before and after the war. Why would the allies, if they were of decisive importance with their second front, to give the USSR field Europe? Because they perfectly understood who the real winner of Nazism was))
    Why do we need to carry out similar programs X-51. ??? We went our own way, created a zircon, a dagger, an avant-garde (albeit a BR block) That is, we solved our problems. Where is your X-51? Have you solved the problems with communication on it?)))) Or, as before, for five minutes it loses contact with all the sources of the control center?))
  • 3danimal
    3danimal April 30 2021 02: 04
    -1
    The same was said about reusable shuttles.

    The shuttles assembled the ISS, for which we are grateful.
    That's when the dragons replace the Alliances, then we'll talk.

    A year ago, I was told here: when the Dragon takes the first crew, then we'll talk smile
    We didn't talk.
    Japan surrendered after the USSR entered the war

    And who defeated the strongest Japanese fleet? The USSR in one would only push them out on the continent. But never could not land on the main islands. Capture, Okinawa, for example ...
    Germany- "General Motors" delivered 70 percent of the Wehrmacht trucks

    Seriously? During the war?? negative
    Proofs in the studio.
    This appears in various articles that do not have any confirmation or research.
    Do not read the tabloids and do not watch REN-TV (otherwise the reptilians will come for you smile )
    In general, where more "lend-lease" was invested -In the USSR or Germany, a big question

    Nothing like this. Everything is calculated, in tons and dollars.
    Part of the Germans drowned, of course. Together with American sailors.
    how valuable is the help of allies?

    Watching: Studebakers, 200+ thousand pieces smile (Zhukov wrote about them, they made a quick offensive possible)

    Etc. There are exact calculations with a percentage of the Union's output during the war years.
    The Germans were forced to build 1171 submarines (metal and production facilities for tanks), keep most of the aviation in the west.
    (To fight on two fronts is pure madness)
    they were of decisive importance with their second front - to give the USSR to the field of Europe

    Collectively, they made an equal contribution.
    Getting to Berlin was possible only after passing through half of Europe. Having defeated parts of the Wehrmacht there and establishing control.
    And it was impossible to demand "to free the territory". They only asked to ensure the possibility of fair elections, etc.
    Why do we need to carry out similar programs X-51

    Because the appearance of a serial scramjet engine should be preceded by a large-scale test program.
    Zircon of this engine with a probability of 90% (IMHO) does not have.
    Time works for the audience, sooner or later we will find out smile
    dagger

    Hanged under a specially modified MiG-31 BRMD Dagger, having received a medium-range aeroballistic missile. But they were created before.
    avant-garde (even if it is a BR block)

    Nice thing, albeit less accurate (than purely ballistic flight).
    But not unique.
    Analogy:
    the poor can concentrate all resources and buy a Bentley. But to live in an apartment without repair, the wife saws the brain and walks to the left, the children are dressed in the market.
    But, once a week you can dissect, forgetting about everything.
    Khrushchev / Brezhnev tried to compete in iron smelting.
    But the really complicated and incredibly expensive program of a manned mission to the moon was not pulled. Although the Union was much stronger than the Russian Federation.
  • 3danimal
    3danimal April 28 2021 04: 39
    -1
    This is what spends most of the Pentagon's budget (including salaries, social benefits and other types of allowances for military personnel) - so that quite comparable values ​​remain for rearmament and development of new types of weapons

    Hypersound that appeared in Russia, and not in the states, despite all their budgets)

    All these references to higher spending on high salaries (as opposed to our scientists and military men forced to puritanize) are just an attempt to equate ourselves, to stand on a par with a superpower, with a budget 15 times larger than ours. In particular, according to the possibilities of promising developments.
    I heard something similar about space here: yes, they say, NASA's budget is 10 times higher, but their salaries are 5 times more than our engineer, but Rogozin gets 5 times more than the head of NASA. This is a modern Russian tradition of income distribution.
    Hypersound? It is a long time ago, for the RIAC, which (air launch) is the Dagger.
    We still don't know anything about Zircon, what kind of engine it has. For him, it was the scramjet engine that was declared, which can immediately be recognized by the characteristic nose of the rocket.
    All articles about this rocket depicted americana experimental X-51 Waverider.
    By simply cutting out the American flag in Photoshop, and sometimes quite shamelessly - under the wing of the "Russian" B-52.



    In our news about the tests, they showed a rocket with a solid propellant rocket / LPRE, and even a Dagger / Iskander to boot
    https://youtu.be/lUniSzI6d8A

    What is the problem? That then the rocket will not show the declared range and flight capabilities along the trajectory. Forced to carry an oxidizer in itself (the scramjet takes it from the air), and therefore, to save fuel, will have to fly along a ballistic / quasi-ballistic trajectory.
    Let me remind you that the rocket is limited by the size of the "Onyx" (to fit into the UKSK cell).
  • 3danimal
    3danimal April 28 2021 05: 33
    +1
    You can also pay attention to the location of the GOS itself, in Onyx and Tomahawk / Caliber:
    the latter have a wider fairing, which allows the antenna to be rotated at large angles (45 'versus 60' from the direction of flight). The larger the angle, the easier it is to find the target.
    No one conducted comparative tests of Onyx and the subsonic anti-ship missile system Caliber (3m54E1) regarding the difficulty of interception. And it would be worth it.
    American sailors have long bought Coyote supersonic targets and are regularly firing at them, by the way.
    Our naval ships never. Maximum - large (noticeable) slow and high-flying RM-15s from the 80s. And there is logic in this, it’s easier to pass the "excellent" teachings.
    There were articles on this topic here.
    IMHO, it was necessary to concentrate on the 3m54E1. Good range, flight only on a low trajectory, more powerful warhead (400kg versus 250kg), less weight.
    Its considerable advantage is also in a large number of carriers: submarines (Onyx will not be included in any TA), aircraft (2 Caliber instead of one Onyx), NK of different displacement.
    Large series - less price of one item, more missiles available.
  • 3danimal
    3danimal April 27 2021 02: 32
    0
    For comparison, Tomahawk block V and Harpoon:



    Have you ever fired at targets that simulate them (with a small ESR)? Or only according to RM-15 (which was used in the 80s and continues now)?
    https://diana-mihailova.livejournal.com/5856993.html
  • ironic
    ironic April 27 2021 13: 07
    -1
    When it becomes clear what it is in general, then we'll talk. The dagger is 10 examples of some kind of bezishodnost, if you want to hit the ships with aerobalistic rockets. Not interesting in the same way as the Chinese ballistic RCC, from the word at all. We will discuss the X-32 when it will be possible to launch it from aircraft in service. Onyx is a rocket that is detected due to its size and speed from the start and, when intercepted from top to bottom, flies straight into the water. What happened to the version of the anti-ship 109th in history is not what is happening now. The algorithm worked out on LRASM is being implemented together with a fundamentally new GOS on Axes block 5, and the existing block 4 is being modernized with upgrade 1, whether they will fully have the capabilities of the 5th block, I have no information, it is stated that this upgrade is enough to attack mobile targets on morte at large distances. The 5th will be able to attack even moving targets on land. Regarding the price, the LRASM is really almost twice as expensive as the Ax block 5, but regarding the rate, I would say that it is just a bet to make LRASM with an emphasis on a more aerial platform, and the Ax block 5 is marine, because established production lines for the States are the basis of industrial policy ... The Brawlers, with their air defense capabilities, do not know at all what they fired at, that with Axes, that with Harpoons of the latest version, which have a range of> 300 km and also a new GOS. Speed ​​for anti-ship missiles is more of a hindrance than assistance in attacking orders with a developed air defense system. The only advantage that supersonic anti-ship missiles give speed is when attacking with multiple missiles of one target. According to the principle, in the least amount of time, in a crowd for a break. In all other scenarios, an attack by subsonic subsonic anti-ship missiles is much more dangerous and effective.
  • Leontrotsky
    Leontrotsky April 30 2021 01: 08
    +1
    I quote again both the source and the information about the X-32- "https://dfnc.ru/c106-technika/chto-predstavlyaet-soboj-novaya-protivokorabelnaya-krylataya-raketa-h-32/
    "Work on the creation of a new rocket based on the Kh-22 - Kh-32 was continued only at the beginning of the new millennium. According to unconfirmed reports, the production of experimental batches of missiles began at the turn of the current decade. By 2013, one Tu-22M3 bomber was a pilot production of the Tupolev Design Bureau. equipped for testing the new X-32 missile According to available data, a large number of missile test launches were carried out in 2013 and 2014, during which the declared tactical and technical characteristics were confirmed. new missiles, and the Kh-2014 was officially put into service at the end of 2016. The Kh-32 will be carried by the modernized Tu-32M22M bombers. Obviously, one of the main aspects of modernizing the Tu-3M22 is to replace the airborne electronic equipment complex and "adapt" it to the use of a new missile.It is worth noting that in the Soviet Union, in fact, for each new missile a new modification of the bomber was created for an Iational cruise missile, and the bombers, together with the missile, made up the so-called. "shock complex". At the moment, it is known about at least 3 Tu-10M22 bombers that have undergone modernization. All in all, by 3 it is planned to modernize the entire Tu-2020M22 fleet - in the "active composition" of the Russian Aerospace Forces there are slightly more than 3 units. "And now we turn on the head. The article was written in 40 and by that time there were already a dozen Tu-2017m22 modernized for the use of the X-3. Once again, I propose to turn on the head - agree, strange, to create a modern anti-ship missile system, and develop a carrier for it in a dozen years, when all its advantages are very likely to be leveled. Tu-32m32 for its use.) The modernized Tu-22m3 were, of course, not to the level of Tu-22m3m, but to a level that allows the use of the X-22 in their arsenal.
  • ironic
    ironic April 30 2021 12: 33
    -1
    A very bravura and patroitic article, for some reason it does not have confirmation in other languages. To turn on the head is yes, in a strictly patriotic direction. As soon as reality bears all the same features, it looks like one experimentally converted sample and one unfinished M3M. And it's all. The available photos show the red X-32, which means prototypes.
  • 3danimal
    3danimal April 27 2021 01: 32
    0
    that this opportunity was incorporated in the Soviet anti-ship missiles back in 80

    Remembering that "Soviet microcircuits are the largest in the world", they take doubts.
    Computers copied with a difference of 7-10 years (Apple-2 and its clone Agate, which is 3-5 times more expensive).
    A system like Aegis was not even close to being created.
  • saylor1971
    saylor1971 April 26 2021 16: 50
    +2
    More than 80 years have passed since the 30s. Target intelligence is constantly evolving. Block 5 missile targeting can be transmitted in a time mode close to real, even from a UAV, even from a satellite. And the Americans took them off because, thanks to the leadership of the Russian Federation, no one will actually fight with them (money and grandchildren abroad). China is another matter. There may be options. But who will issue target designation for US EM URO is a big question. Let me remind you:
    The main component of the destroyers' air defense is the Aegis air defense system, which has the same name with the multi-functional BIUS. The air defense system can include, depending on the distribution of ammunition, from 34 to 74 Standard-2ER anti-aircraft missiles for RIM-67B missiles (1981, maximum firing range - 128 km), RIM-67C (1981, maximum firing range - 185 km), RIM-156 (Standard-2ER Block IV, 1999, maximum firing range - 240 km), currently all new destroyers are armed with Standard-3 anti-aircraft missiles with a doubled (up to 500 km) launch range and virtually unlimited frames of the Earth's atmosphere with a launch height (up to 250 km). Coca here, a single Onyx will break through, even if the target designation is fantastic.
    1. Leontrotsky
      Leontrotsky April 26 2021 20: 31
      +3
      Well, to begin with, the Onyxes know how to attack not only singly, but also in a group. And the predecessors of Onyx-Granita already knew how to do this. Moreover, according to the forecasts of the state specialists themselves, given the dimensions of Onyx, 2-3 SAM missiles will be required to disable it. And in the final section, no air defense systems and phalanxes will help, because due to its inertia (taking into account the weight of the anti-ship missile system), onyx maintains a course when approaching the target, even in the case of several hits. The Americans had just approached the "flock attack" in their LRASM158. And the Granites were already able to do this in 80. This is the first thing. Secondly, for example, the X-32 flies at an altitude of 40 km. And the maximum height of work is SM-6. Yes, it can even work on ballistic missiles, but there is another topic. For ballistic missiles have a minimum ceiling of 100 km. That is, the height of the X-32 is 40 km, again, not about them. Plus, in order to have at least some probability of shooting down the same X-32 or a dagger-missile, the air defense missile system must have no less speed than them. And, since the Kh-32 is comparable to Onyx in size, it is quite possible that not a single missile will be needed. So the amerskie air defense systems are not yet particularly capable of withstanding the Russian anti-ship missiles.
      About children and grandchildren abroad. When the big storm begins, no one will ask those who have children and grandchildren abroad. The decision will be made by the Supreme, and then the comaeda will follow the chain. So there is no place in it for those who have everything over the hill)
      1. ironic
        ironic April 26 2021 21: 02
        0
        Uh-huh, if my memory serves me, they wrote here that the flock was tested as many as two missiles, as much as once. To destroy BRAMOC, one Barak-8 is enough, which simply drives it into the water with its nose, and to destroy Onyx, you need as many as three missiles? I do not believe. An interceptor missile in the oncoming lane does not need to have a high speed, its maneuverability is much more important. A big help in shooting down a supersonic anti-ship missile is just the proximity of the water surface. The best interceptor also deviated from the course downward - the water surface, the speed helps to meet it very quickly. You are coming up with some fables. The Kh-32 is a completely different missile and has a completely different attack three-way. And how many carriers does it have? One? Prototype Tu-22M3M?
      2. Leontrotsky
        Leontrotsky April 26 2021 23: 26
        +2
        So you teach materiel)) I once began my service on Kirov (1144) so ​​there we carried out ship firing in volleys with Granites. Once again, I will repeat to you that this opportunity was incorporated into the Soviet anti-ship missiles back in 80. So during this time, as soon as Granites and Onyxes did not shoot))) Amerskiye experts themselves say about Onyx. I can say what I know. Ak-630, which simply cuts some missiles into pieces in the near zone - Granita flying at a target located not far away - could not do anything. It has a length of under 10 m and a weight of under 7000 kg. Onyx is slightly smaller. So imagine what kind of kinetic energy he has on approach to shoot him down by a much smaller anti-ship missile. And anti-ship missiles often do not hit the target, but it sometimes explodes nearby. Yes, the electronics, the anti-ship missile case, are amazed, but the inertia does not disappear anywhere, and due to it, it, of course, reaches the target.
        About agility and speed, learn math. Look for it in the internet, as well. Where it is proved with the help of mat formulas that the shooting down of an anti-missile anti-missile system is possible only if the speed of the anti-missile is at least not less. Well, your anti-missile missile is flying to intercept the X-32, for example. And the Kh-32 made, on the way to the target, an anti-missile maneuver. It takes time to assess the change in the trajectory of the anti-missile system, and then react to the anti-missile. And the anti-ship missile, having great speed, has already whizzed past. And what is your agility then?
        The water surface is the best assistant in shooting down an anti-ship missile?))) Do you know that anti-ship missiles are not detected by air defense systems over the water surface?)) Again, the excitement that reflects radio waves))) True, flying low over the water and the same Onyx does not see the target, but he saw it before, when he was flying at an altitude of 10 km (and the descent occurs 40 km before the target) - and then he goes to a specific point. For at a speed of Mach 1,9, 40 km, he will overcome in a minute. And the target at 20 nodes will not pass even a km during this time. That is, when ONIKs reaches the radio horizon of the air defense radar, your destroyers will react in a matter of seconds. You can't even start up an anti-missile. Only Phalanxes can be shot. But due to inertia, as already mentioned, this is a useless undertaking.
        As for the Tu-22m3, you at least read something before you grind nonsense. Russia has about 22 Tu-3m40 units (I agree that the TU-22m3m is still only in a prototype. But the TU-22m3 each carries two X-32s. And the X-32s themselves are unmeasured. For they are being converted from the X-22, which the USSR riveted - above the roof. The warhead is cut down (up to 400 kg, respectively, the space for fuel is freed up and the range is increased to 1000 km.) That is, the hull is the same, put a modern seeker, and voila! So 22 kg of explosives per deck is the fate of any berk in the Black Sea.))
      3. 3danimal
        3danimal April 27 2021 02: 50
        -1
        And the X-32 themselves are unmeasured. For they are being converted from the X-22

        Assumptions, assumptions.
        They should at least have a new engine and GOS (the most complex components), the body itself and the warhead are not a problem to manufacture.
        For at a speed of Mach 1,9, 40 km, he will overcome in a minute.

        This is the final stage of the flight, the engine is off (do you remember that this is a liquid-propellant engine?) And the rocket descends into a dense atmosphere near the ground.
        There is no question of any 4,5M.
        Yes, the electronics, the anti-ship missile case, are affected, but the inertia does not disappear anywhere

        A sub-caliber projectile for a 20mm cannon is capable of detonating a warhead, this will completely destroy it, most of the debris will go into the water.
        The ship will move all the time, making maneuvers.
        I met a fragment of the memoirs of one of the admirals of the 80s. There he writes that they were not particularly afraid of Tu-22M3 Backfires: Kh-22s fly high, are detected early and most of them will be shot down in the distance, first by Phoenixes from F-14, then SM-2 from Ticonderog.
        The nuclear submarine of Project 941, with 24 Granites, was considered much more dangerous.
      4. Leontrotsky
        Leontrotsky April 27 2021 08: 41
        +2
        Where did you notice that I assigned a speed of Mach 4,5 to Onyx? It was about the X-32. Onyx goes 2,6 most of the trajectory and, I agree, but I wrote about it, 30-40 km before the target begins to decline. It is clear that high speeds are unattainable near the sea surface, hence 1,6-1,9mach in the final section of the trajectory. I also wrote about the modernization, you read inattentively that the modernization includes, first of all, the replacement of the GOS, because it would be strange to use a modern anti-ship missile system with the GOS of the 70-80s. But the same problem is faced by tomahawks, for example, when it comes to their modernization. For some reason, it is believed that modernizing tomahawks is a snap, and modernizing the X-32 is a difficult thing to do. Regarding the "non-fear" of the Tu-22m)) Even in 80 Amr air defense systems were not able to cope with the X-22, given its speed and altitude (up to 22,5 km). The Kh-32 went even further. Increasing the speed to Mach 4,5 and the altitude to 40 km. Yes, its start will be detected. But in order for an anti-missile to shoot it down, two conditions are necessary - the speed of the anti-missile, comparable to the anti-missile missile and the height of the anti-missile on the anti-missile missile. Even modern SM6s operating up to 33 km in height cannot reach the Kh-32 flying 40 km. The speed of the interceptor missiles is about Mach 3,5, which also does not inspire optimism, because it is much less than the speed of the Kh-32, especially in the final section, when, after a slide, the Kh-32 almost plummets onto the target from a height of 40 km.
        As for the detonation of a warhead when hit by a projectile from a 22 mm cannon, I will answer with your own words, it's all at the level of assumptions. I personally saw the shooting of AK-630 at Granite - and I can say one thing - Granite reached the target, despite the very dense fire from two Ak-630s at it.
      5. ironic
        ironic April 27 2021 13: 31
        -1
        By the way, Mach 4.6 for X is the maximum speed, and cruising is much lower. The range there from more than 3M begins. Her trajectory is for a head-on kinetic interceptor. The speed of the interceptor is not particularly important. More important is maneuverability and interception accuracy. A modern electronic warfare can handle the Kh-22 today. Even according to the statements of the RF Ministry of Defense, it is poorly protected.

        Well, maybe that's why the cannon barrier is not considered effective in the west either. But Bramos did not reach the goal with the first Barak-8. I think Americans are well acquainted with the development.
  • ironic
    ironic April 27 2021 13: 46
    -1
    And where did we drink at broodershaft? I didn’t write this on VO, it was your naval colleagues who wrote it. Send them and send the materiel to finish teaching. One remained. Volley attacks and flock attacks are not exactly the same thing. How many granites are in service and where? And his electronics from the modern electronic warfare of the order stretches or will die and he will fly with all 7Ts where he does not hit? Onyx is much smaller. - 3T. That missile does not fly to intercept the X-32, because there is nothing to launch it with in practice. At high speed they whistle past the missile defense interceptors only in Wishlist. This is only possible if the number of attacking missiles is comparable to the number of possible intercept launches. Then, according to the principle, we will break through, let someone break through. There will be enough time for the interceptor, taking into account the oncoming interception and significantly greater maneuverability and a significantly greater ability to withstand longitudinal and lateral overloads. Onyx, as soon as he flies in his 2Ms, will be noticed by everyone from coast to coast. And it does not carry any X-32 M3, it does not have a complex capable of operating the X-32. Therefore, on the issue of carrying nonsense, start with yourself.
  • Leontrotsky
    Leontrotsky April 29 2021 20: 12
    +1
    What can I tell you something that before, learn the materiel.))) After modernization, the Tu-22m3 can carry both the x-22 and the x-32. In Kazan, more than 30 units of them were modernized by 20. The rest will be upgraded to Tu-22m3m. About firing volleys and attacking in a flock. Naturally, a volley and an attack by a flock are not the same. A salvo is understood to mean the simultaneous firing from several carriers, but an anti-ship missile that was not included in the salvo can be included in the flock. Or maybe vice versa - a flock will be formed from one volley. Here, as you like))) Granites were the last on the 885 project and on the 1144. But Onyx is the heir of the Granites. This is a smaller version of it. For Granites were placed on the Orlans, which, with a displacement of 23000 tons, could well carry anti-ship missiles of such dimensions. Onyx, in this regard, is much more democratic, as it can become armed with NK and a smaller displacement (type 22350) and, so to speak, find application in the coastal version in the form of Bastions. But the flock attack, in particular, he took over from Granit. As for the X-32, its engine is multi-mode. Speed ​​from Mach 3,5 to 4,6. And it depends, both on the distance to the target (because if the shooting is carried out at 600-800 km, then you can not use the cruising speed, but go on the afterburner, the fuel will still be enough), and on the trajectory on which X is located. 32 (when approaching the target, before making a "slide", the speed is just close to 4,6. And the air defense of your destroyers, I remind you, works up to 300-350 km. And up to an altitude of 33 km. An interceptor? It is quite possible. But for this he needs to take off, and in the proximity of the Crimea, where the S-500 and the S-400 stand, and the aircraft of the Russian Aerospace Forces will be more different than the NATO activities of all kinds of interceptors will be difficult, and again, the interceptor must carry air-to-air with speeds not lower than afterburner X-32.
  • ironic
    ironic April 30 2021 13: 30
    -1
    C-700, 800 and 900. Zhirinovsky knows for sure ...
    They are capable of writing brtavurny articles in Russian, but in reality there is practically no one to carry the X-32 into battle.
  • ironic
    ironic April 25 2021 18: 49
    +1
    And she is. Calibers are certainly a serious weapon, but quantitatively they cannot compete with Axes.
    1. Leontrotsky
      Leontrotsky April 26 2021 20: 18
      +2
      Well, to begin with, most of this junk called tomahawk is an old modification. Plans for revision to the latest modifications are still on paper. So even more calibers will be a tomahawk of the latest modifications.
      1. ironic
        ironic April 26 2021 20: 26
        0
        Not certainly in that way. Block 4 is being upgraded by upgrade 1 to the capabilities of block 5. Block 5 by the end of the year will be> 100 units, taking into account the fact that the first 30 were made at the end of the 20th. Upgrade 4 will go clearly faster. Block 3 will be written off completely and replaced by 5. You can imagine the rate yourself if the entire block 3 is going to be sent to the basket as a whole.
  • ironic
    ironic April 25 2021 18: 36
    0
    They shoot very much further and not only block 5, but also block 4 upgrade 1. And it is not so easy to shoot through the entire Black Sea, there is also a coastline of other countries, especially if the launches are quickly noticed and not only the Berkov air defense system, but and aviation covering the AUG and air defense missile systems from foreign shores, and they will cover if the Berks come out to attack positions, and not just carry flags across the sea. It's one thing to defend your coast under the cover of your aviation and coastal anti-ship missiles, and another thing to clash with the Mediterranean NATO ships, the Black Sea Fleet has no chance in this battle but to die heroically.
    1. lucul
      lucul April 25 2021 18: 41
      +1
      and another thing will clash with the Mediterranean NATO ships, the Black Sea Fleet in this battle has no chance but to die heroically.

      That grouping may not reach the launch point - this time.
      Secondly, even if she enters the Black Sea, she has no chance of surviving against the Bastions (
      1. ironic
        ironic April 25 2021 18: 46
        0
        Hmm. BRAMOS go astray, but the Bastions are not? It may not be possible, or it may not be possible to reach it alone. They have. Do the Bastions have a chance to survive if they work on them in response to launches?
        1. lucul
          lucul April 25 2021 18: 52
          +1
          Hmm. BRAMOS go astray

          How do they go astray? )))
          What is the likelihood of this device hitting the Bastion? )))
          1. ironic
            ironic April 25 2021 19: 17
            0
            The same Barak-8.
            I think the Amrikans have their own interceptors. Bastion is the same Onyx. Quickly spotted because of its size and speed, the rocket.
          2. lucul
            lucul April 25 2021 19: 22
            -1
            The same Barak-8.
            I think the Amrikans have their own interceptors.

            Aha-ahah, no))))
            Bastion is the same Onyx.

            Structurally, yes, but the flight algorithm is not quite)))
            Quickly spotted because of its size and speed, the rocket.

            So all the tsimes in the developed overloads and speed)))))
            I repeat the question - what is the probability of intercepting Bastion from Arleigh Burke? ))))
          3. ironic
            ironic April 25 2021 19: 45
            -1
            Not when another sound is blown into the water.

            How not? And the SM-6 is this?

            Well, it's clear that launching from the shore has its own specifics.

            Air defense missile interceptors are capable of carrying large G-forces, and speed is a great way to wave the handle - I'm here.

            Depends on the number for each Burke.
          4. lucul
            lucul April 25 2021 19: 53
            +1
            How not? And the SM-6 is this?

            Is it time to check? )))
            SAM interceptors are capable of withstanding large overloads,

            What are these, longitudinal or lateral overloads? )))
            Or overload at startup? )))
          5. ironic
            ironic April 25 2021 20: 04
            0
            It would be better if it didn’t come to that.

            On the transverse, everything is definitely much better than that of a healthy and heavy Onyx.
          6. lucul
            lucul April 25 2021 20: 27
            +1
            On the transverse, everything is definitely much better than that of a healthy and heavy Onyx.

            Do you think the SM-6 will succeed in kinetic defeat on a maneuvering target at supersonic sound?
          7. ironic
            ironic April 25 2021 21: 02
            -1
            I can only judge indirectly by the successful defeat of BRAMOS Barak-8 on test firing, I would not want to see combat.
          8. lucul
            lucul April 25 2021 21: 56
            -2
            I would not like to see combat.

            I think we'll see soon.
          9. 3danimal
            3danimal April 26 2021 15: 42
            0
            Do you find something joyful about this?
            What good is war?
          10. ironic
            ironic April 26 2021 16: 05
            0
            It is possible, but never happy.
      2. 3danimal
        3danimal April 26 2021 15: 41
        0
        SM-6 has a fragmentation warhead weighing 115 kg.
        It will be launched on anti-ship missiles at the high-altitude section of the trajectory.
  • Leontrotsky
    Leontrotsky April 27 2021 00: 03
    +1
    SM-6 works up to 33 km. It's good to shoot at sparrows, but it's bad to shoot at the Kh-32, since it has a flight altitude of 40 km.
  • ironic
    ironic April 27 2021 13: 52
    0
    From a special experimental model M3M, not accepted for service. wink
  • 3danimal
    3danimal April 26 2021 15: 38
    +1
    Overloads are the same - up to 20g.
    And until the target is captured by the seeker 50 km from the target, no maneuvers are performed.
    Accordingly, when flying along a hi-low trajectory, in the high-altitude segment, the missile is clearly visible and vulnerable to long-range missiles.
    About maneuvers of anti-ship missiles in the low-altitude area.
    For this, the ESSM missile defense system was created, with an OVT and a Max overload of 60g, which is 3 times more than that of an anti-ship missile and meets the requirements for confident interception of a target. Launch 1 rocket per second, 4 per cell.
    As a result: it is possible to penetrate the destroyer's air defense only by overloading it with targets, or to achieve the depletion of ammunition. (2-3 missiles for 1 anti-ship missile)
  • ironic
    ironic April 26 2021 16: 07
    +1
    The longitudinal ones seem to have reached 70G, but the transverse ones at one time kept at the level of 12-15G, but perhaps they already reached 20. I'm talking about SAM. RCC is probably smaller and decent.
  • 3danimal
    3danimal April 26 2021 16: 27
    -1
    Longitudinal seem to be up to 70G

    Seriously good
    RCC is probably smaller and decent.

    Size matters smile
    And not a single anti-ship missile system has an OVT, although many here would like to.
  • ironic
    ironic April 26 2021 17: 41
    0
    Well, there are gas rudders, so that after the launch, they quickly go into horizontal flight, people think that this is the rocket maneuvering system.
  • Leontrotsky
    Leontrotsky April 26 2021 21: 00
    +3
    Yah? )) Let's start with the fact that in the event of a conflict off the coast of Russia-RF will have an overwhelming advantage in aviation. How many aircraft does the aircraft carry? - Correctly about 50 shock aircraft. How the NATO allies will behave in this situation, will they give the go-ahead to use NATO aircraft from their airfields (and thus expose their territories under attack) is a big question. But even if they allow, NATO has about 2300 aircraft, Russia has 1500 (moreover more than 50% SU-30 and above). So from Russia to transfer the forces of the Aerospace Forces to their own theater of operations is not a problem. But the NATO countries to concentrate a significant part of their aircraft is a problem, because they need the appropriate infrastructure and time. So the same berks will have to act in conditions of significant superiority of the Aerospace Forces. This time. Secondly, Russia has mainly modern NK-MRKs, which will operate under the cover of coastal air defense and aviation complexes. And thirdly, NATO's air defense is not able to counteract either daggers or even the X-32. By the way, the Americans themselves are talking about this. No, you can try amers, but their losses will be catastrophic in NK and LA. Of course, the Black Sea Fleet will also suffer, but it will not be completely destroyed in any way)
    1. ironic
      ironic April 26 2021 22: 27
      0
      Today, the entire 1/8 of the world is armed with about 800 fighters and fighter bombers scattered throughout the military districts. Even a pair of AUGs can create a local air advantage, plus some other NATO airfield, even in a single copy. An airplane can bring 70 units of flight equipment and even 80 units to the conflict zone. + -50 is a permanent combat training patrol kit. And Ford in full combat gear is capable of operating 90 combat aircraft, but he is not yet on combat duty, at best he will become in the next year. And if Russia transfers its forces to the theater of operations, the enemy may, especially to where they were transferred from, not attack, but create a threat in order to pull it off. The Daggers have as many as 10 carriers in the south, and this is generally some kind of bezishodnosti trying to hit the ship with an aerobalistic rocket. The X-32 can be launched from a single experimental prototype that has not yet been put into service, and the X-22 is specifically a poorly jammed missile with a weak guidance system today. The Black Sea Fleet, in the event of a conflict at sea, can really only rely on the protection of the coast, because most of its pennants will not even be able to recognize in time what they were sunk, if the battle is at sea.

      PS Su-30 according to open data in the Air Force about 100 pieces, another 20 pieces in the Navy. Su-35 is about the same. wink
      1. Leontrotsky
        Leontrotsky April 27 2021 00: 31
        +1
        My friend, your affairs are completely hopeless. Do not feed on your own fictions, but read more on this topic. I wrote that the VKS has more than 700 aircraft from the SU-30 and above.
        Well, as of 2020 -
        Mig-29 / 35-251 pcs (plus order about 40 pcs)
        MIG-31 - 132 pcs
        SU-24-274sht
        SU-25 - 194 pcs
        SU-27/30/35 - 429 pieces (plus about 40 pieces ordered)
        Su-34 - 123 units (plus a recent order from the Ministry of Defense for 76 units)
        Su-57 12 pcs, order 76 pcs
        Tu-22m and Tu-22m3 - 67 pcs
        Tu-95 - 42 pcs
        Tu-160-16
        here is the link-https: //aviation21.ru/sostav-boevogo-aviaparka-vks-rossii-na-2020-god/

        So, if we take shock aircraft that can be used against the NK, then it can be seen from the plate that there will be just 1500 of them. Avimatka has on board no more than 50 attack aircraft. The rest of the air wing-AWACS aircraft, PLO aircraft and the like, which has nothing to do with our question))
        How many aviation is based in the Crimea, I don’t presume to say, but I know that in the north, where he served in the 45th Air Force and Air Defense Army, subordinate to the North Fleet OSK, there are about 150 attack aircraft. Over the past years, 10-19 airfields in the Arctic Circle have been repaired. But I think Crimea, in the network of recent events, is even better armed. And if necessary, you can easily transfer aircraft based in the depths of Russia, and the TU-22m3 can make combat missions even from the places of its permanent deployment, to strike at the same arliebers, accompanied by an air wing.
        As for the X-32, I have already written about it. It is the same as the Kh-22 (with a smaller warhead and an increased fuel tank). X-22 in Soviet times was made a huge number. Therefore, converting it into an x-32-task is as easy as shelling pears. And there is no shortage of the X-32. The same as in the Tu-22m3. Now out of about 40 are on alert, just over 20 are being upgraded. So that....
        1. ironic
          ironic April 27 2021 12: 37
          0
          Well, in addition to your local sites, which need to support patriotism, there are also Western sites that are more critical of bravura declarations. But even if we discard the differences in data, my affairs are so hopeless that your tables confirm, just my words, not yours. Russia has about 800 combat-ready fighters / fighter-bombers. Strategic aviation is a separate topic, and how much of it is combat-ready and how much is hopelessly outdated (not in terms of corps resource, B52H is peers and even more). Stormtroopers are not at all in the subject. High-altitude interceptors are also not a topic, from a word at all. Those. you practically confirmed everything that I wrote briefly, without laying out the sheets and without optimistic palns for the future. From such it turns out I have fictions.
          Your wishlist about the X-32 is of course as confident as the plans for the purchase of aircraft, only they are much bigger fictions than your statements about my fictions. The X-32 is indeed based on the X-22 body and its aerodynamics, only the electronics, the seeker and the warhead have been completely changed, in addition to the fact that it is reduced, and the fuel tanks are increased due to it. This is not a rework, this is a coup, comparable to the release of a new rocket, but this is still half the trouble. Launch and guidance systems exist in a single copy on the M3M prototype and this is a fact recognized by the RF Ministry of Defense. Yes, 30 M3 units are planned for modernization to M3M, the rest for the development of a resource and decommissioning, but so far even one copy has not been brought to combat duty.
        2. Leontrotsky
          Leontrotsky April 29 2021 19: 31
          0
          Well, Western sources, after their tales about Skripals, Navalny and Sochi plumbers, can hardly be trusted in any area)) You can see the "Military Acceptance" there, and a lot has been told about modernization and about TU-22 m3 and TU-22m3m. A separate program is devoted to this topic. As for the obsolescence of strategic aviation, you look at the states, there you mentioned the B-52 in service, the plane has been flying since the time of Tsar Pea)) and how much in percentage terms is the F-16 in the US Air Force? An airplane that flew at the 70/80 border? High-altitude interceptors is not the topic? )) Dear, if you forgot Temko, then I will remind you, we are talking about countering the NK aviation. Is it okay that one of these MiG-31K fighter-interceptors carries a dagger?)) Regarding the plans for the purchase of aviation, I don't know what you are reading, probably Western publications and those such news are not published, but infa and about the SU-57 and SU-34 passed through many portals of the Russian Federation. So I believe them more than the editions of the "novice" fairy tales. The X-32 naturally changes all the electronics, because a modern seeker is needed, and furthermore, I will say a new engine. It's like that. But why, like you, when talking about tomahawks (of which 7000 units are in service and at the mention of which you feel wet delight), you forget that the problems they face are exactly the same, namely the modernization of the GOS. And the engine, if it is going to fly further and longer.)) You can read more serious publications about the TU-22 m3 (by the way, there was material on the VO about them, for example, the National Defense "). However, if you don’t want to believe, you don’t need to. The more our opponents think that Russia has rusted everything and no more than a hundred aircraft in service, so much the better.Only then you will have to answer to yourself the question - why in two Russian Air Force schools in recent years there has been an increased output and why does the Russian Federation build airfields for polar circle, including those capable of accepting strategists? If only junk and an experienced Tu-22m3m are left of them?)))
  • ironic
    ironic April 25 2021 18: 29
    +1
    I just hope that this confrontation will not happen, but 80 thousand bayonets on the border did not make the situation tense. If the Berks reach the launch positions, then they will still have to be reached, they will not be walking along the Black Sea in a combat situation with a flag deployed and they will be covered by AUG aviation and nuclear submarines. Bastions are quite possibly effective, but not from Ax launch range. Do not ascribe evidence to your wishes, this is a mirage. And reality is incomprehensible beforehand. wink
    1. lucul
      lucul April 25 2021 18: 44
      +1
      If the Berks reach the launch positions, then they will still have to be reached, they will not be walking along the Black Sea in a combat situation with a flag deployed and they will be covered by AUG aviation and nuclear submarines.

      Do not forget about the submarines, recently one of these three amerskih Poseidons were looking for and did not find. And there are 6 of them on duty now, and it is not known how many of them are in the Mediterranean.
      1. ironic
        ironic April 25 2021 19: 48
        0
        But the Israeli corvettes in our territorial waters found one without the Poseidons. The call to Moscow was probably not very pleasant for the MO. But how many submarines NATO has in the Mediterranean, I do not even presume to suggest that.
        1. lucul
          lucul April 25 2021 19: 56
          -1
          But the Israeli corvettes in our territorial waters found one without the Poseidons.

          An old one, I suppose? Was the periscope sticking out of the water? )))
          1. ironic
            ironic April 25 2021 19: 59
            +1
            636th. Well, except that it is morally outdated. wink They tried to pretend to be a "black hole", but had to disappear after the call. lol
            1. lucul
              lucul April 25 2021 20: 05
              0
              636th. Well, except that it’s outdated We tried to pretend to be a "black hole", but had to leave after the call

              What, a sailor from a submarine to Tel Aviv called and said that I was swimming in the territorial waters?
              Did you take advantage of the proximity to your historical homeland, so to speak? )))
            2. ironic
              ironic April 25 2021 20: 10
              0
              No, it’s the Israeli Defense Ministry called Moscow with a request to explain to your sailors that they didn’t succeed in trying to build a "black hole" out of themselves by driving several kilometers into our territorial waters directly opposite the beaches. Better next time on a tour of the tourist, you are welcome, since you do not need a visa (the crown has not happened yet). I had to reluctantly, but set sail. laughing
            3. lucul
              lucul April 25 2021 20: 20
              -3
              Better next time on a tour of the tourist, you are welcome, since you do not need a visa (the crown has not happened yet). I had to reluctantly, but set sail.

              They took off all the data, finally showed that they were)))
              But, of course, your people from our headquarters could also have merged the information - I do not exclude it)))
            4. 3danimal
              3danimal April 25 2021 21: 39
              -1
              If on TV they talk about the absolute invisibility of a boat from the 80s, then this is not necessarily true (but you can believe, no matter what smile ).
            5. lucul
              lucul April 25 2021 21: 58
              -3
              If on TV they talk about the absolute invisibility of a boat from the 80s, then this is not necessarily true (but you can believe, no matter what

              Yes, no, it's easier to see how many of your people are in the General Staff, and draw conclusions.
            6. 3danimal
              3danimal April 26 2021 15: 19
              -1
              how many of your people are in the General Staff

              Sorry, what are you talking about?
            7. ironic
              ironic April 26 2021 16: 14
              0
              There are very few Jews left in Russia, you need to declare someone a Jew, otherwise there is no one to scold.
            8. 3danimal
              3danimal April 26 2021 16: 33
              0
              My grandfather could call people unpleasant to him Jews wassat
              In Nazi Germany, a scholar coined the term "white Jew" to refer to his uncomfortable fellow competitors. As old as the world ..
        2. ironic
          ironic April 26 2021 16: 13
          0
          Shaw again? (C) Jews, Jews around only Jews (C).
      2. ironic
        ironic April 26 2021 16: 12
        0
        So after all # there will be no, and if they do not agree, then # you will be seized.
    2. ironic
      ironic April 26 2021 16: 10
      0
      Tel Aviv Beaches Data? You could just call the tour desk. Oh, yes, of course, we passed our own. This is probably why the poor fellows, before the return call from Moscow, pretended to be a "black hole" and did not immediately respond to the request through the negotiated channel. lol
  • Tusv
    Tusv April 24 2021 09: 17
    +3
    Quote: atalef
    there are only 2 of them and both are in the Northern Fleet

    Generally, lucul confused similar frigates. Let's clarify. There are three Grigorovichs. It will be easier for the Berks than for the two Gorshkovs?
    1. ironic
      ironic April 25 2021 19: 53
      0
      Weaker AA defenses.
  • tatarin1972
    tatarin1972 April 24 2021 09: 18
    +1
    Directly from Sevastopol, from the wall, "Calibers".
    1. Leontrotsky
      Leontrotsky April 24 2021 21: 32
      +3
      Well, the range of Caliber-NK is up to 350 km. But there are Bastions (up to 600 km) or daggers carried by the MIG-31K, based just in the Crimea. In general, if the destroyers also enter the Black Sea to shoot, they are an unambiguous common ovsky grave.
      1. ironic
        ironic April 25 2021 20: 21
        -1
        Bastions are flying like this 600 km already in foreign territorial waters and no one notices them, and all this is in supersonic ... Well, game. And as many as 10 Migov, which, because of the daggers, are grazed from the hangars by satellites who will only rise into the air, and they will be met by the escorts from the patrol AUG-vtsev, hello, you were not expecting us, but we pinned ...
      2. 3danimal
        3danimal April 25 2021 21: 43
        -1
        It is necessary to issue a control center for launching at such a range.
        If there are hostilities, then any foreign aircraft will go astray.
        A-50 / 50u is the level of the 80s / 90s, in such missions (CU and Berkov Attack) they are disposable.
        Although, of course, having paid your price, you can disable the destroyers.
        1. ironic
          ironic April 26 2021 20: 11
          0
          It is necessary, well, the Black Sea is really not that big, but there are also other countries there. Somehow Turkey is a NATO member by the way. Such a conflict will immediately turn into a world one.
    2. 3danimal
      3danimal April 25 2021 21: 40
      -1
      From the wall, from the pier - this is very convenient for the attacker.
      The target does not move, its location is known in advance.
  • mvg
    mvg April 24 2021 09: 23
    -14%
    Forgive me, but the fact that you are a little stupid person, how does it help you in life? Well, there the whole world through rose-colored glasses or reinforced concrete (from the word ichiot) self-confidence in the moschi of the Russian Navy.
    I see only one plus: When opening a criminal case, you don't have to mow ... They admit with a margin.
    1. lucul
      lucul April 24 2021 09: 30
      +8
      Forgive me, but the fact that you are a little stupid person, how does it help you in life? Well, there the whole world through rose-colored glasses or reinforced concrete (from the word ichiot) self-confidence in the moschi of the Russian Navy.

      This is when there are no arguments - you have to carry nonsense.
      This is just your case ...
      1. mvg
        mvg April 25 2021 06: 32
        -7
        that's when there are no arguments

        There are archements, I'm afraid you can't understand them ... I can't start with your primary education ... This is given from birth ... But they become ichiot much later .. But don't be discouraged, you have a lot of sidekicks .. I can list a couple of tenkoffs at a glance at VO.
        To be honest, I'm shocked: how can you live so stupid? The shovel and stretcher also require a certain amount of literacy. Even knitting rebar is an IQ component.
        1. lucul
          lucul April 25 2021 12: 49
          +2
          There are artifacts, I'm afraid you cannot understand them ...

          I went through this in kindergarten.
          I repeat - this is when there is nothing to say, they get off with such templates))))
  • Winnie76
    Winnie76 April 24 2021 12: 50
    +2
    Quote: lucul
    If my memory serves me, then the time between launches of Tomahawks is at least 1 minute

    Changes. 10-15 seconds judging by the video

    Quote: lucul
    Even if we assume the most ideal option for amers - two Arleigh Burks are armed with 112 Tomahawks of the newest version of Block-5 (universal), which can hit ships, then there is nothing special for the amers.

    What interest is it to hit ships if you can hit the bases with Tomahawks with nuclear warheads and even from a safe distance of 2500 km. In this case, 96 missiles, each 200 kt, is a very serious argument.
    1. lucul
      lucul April 24 2021 13: 57
      +5
      Changes. 10-15 seconds judging by the video

      This is the newest Block-5.
      I remember the video of the attacks on Iraq and Yugoslavia, the frequency there is less.
      In this case, 96 missiles, each 200 kt, is a very serious argument.

      96 missiles is the cruiser Tikanderoga, not the destroyer Arleigh Burke, if anything.
      What interest is it to hit ships if you can hit the bases with Tomahawks with nuclear warheads, and even from a safe distance of 2500 km

      Yes, the fact that the 2500 km Tomahawk flies in 2.5 hours, and during this time you can do a lot, like intercepting missiles, and hitting the carrier after the first missile launches.
      The calibers are identical to the Tomahawks in terms of their characteristics and also carry nuclear warheads, and can also hit US cruisers and destroyers.
      1. Alien ...
        Alien ... April 25 2021 00: 03
        -1
        Destroyers. On the cruisers Ticonderoga UVP Mk-41 122 pcs ...
    2. Leontrotsky
      Leontrotsky April 24 2021 21: 23
      +3
      Do you know what you wrote here? The use of nuclear warheads on the objects of the Russian military infrastructure means only one thing. The fact that Yars, Vanguards and other delights will fly to the "decision-making centers". And as we remember, the Supreme Commander, in his recent message, recalled that the newest weapons in the Strategic Missile Forces are more than 80 percent. with all the consequences for the Washington Regional Committee. They are ready, for the sake of Ukraine, to receive a full-scale nuclear strike on their territory, welcome to hell)))
      1. Winnie76
        Winnie76 April 24 2021 21: 45
        -2
        Quote: Leontrotsky
        Do you know what you wrote here? The use of nuclear warheads on the objects of the Russian military infrastructure means only one thing. The fact that Yars, Avangards and other delights will fly to the "decision-making centers".

        Do you think that the salvo firing of anti-ship missiles at the ships of the Russian Navy means something different?
        Quote: Leontrotsky
        They are ready, for the sake of Ukraine, to receive a full-scale nuclear strike on their territory, welcome to hell)))

        A counter question. Are we ready for a nuclear exchange for the sake of the LPR?
        1. Leontrotsky
          Leontrotsky April 24 2021 22: 17
          +6
          Sorry, we do not understand each other. What does it mean "salvo fire of anti-ship missiles at the ships of the Russian Navy?")))) Anti-ship missiles, I repeat, in service with the US Navy is a harpoon. Range 300 km. The newest tomahawks (for mobile sea targets) hit a little further. With a salvo on the order of ships, or on the ship that occupies the dominant and decisive place in the order, you can only strike with tomahawks with nuclear warheads, and in no other way is it called "shooting across the squares." That is, a nuclear strike will be inflicted on the territory of the Russian Federation, and the Russian Federation will silently watch it? To fire a volley of harpoons or tomahawks from a conventional warhead is to fart into a puddle.)) If we are talking about firing harpoons, then you need to approach 300 km. (Let me remind you that the coastal bastions shoot at 600), and daggers from Migov-31 K for everything 1000. From the waters of the Aegean Sea to shoot tomahawks with a conventional warhead is to throw them into the sea. They will fly for two hours. A volley will be immediately detected by AWACS stations. In 2 hours, any ship will have time to move 50 miles in either direction. And given that both tomahawks and harpoons fly at low altitude (which means their radio horizon is several miles), having exhausted all the fuel, they simply flop into the sea. And the effectiveness of this salvo will be about nothing. And the consequences will be colossal, for the United States, first of all. For in response, calibers can fly at US bases in Europe. (This is at the initial stage of the conflict).
          Sorry, the article is not about the DPR / LPR, but about the destruction of the CFRF. And this implies a blow to both the ships of the Russian Navy and the infrastructure of the Black Sea Fleet, and this is a blow to Russia. In the event of a strike by Tomahawks on the DPR / LPR, as I wrote above, the Russian Federation can respond with caliber strikes against US bases located in Europe. And that, in the case of the use of nuclear weapons on the territory of the Russian Federation, there will be a response to the states in the form of the same nuclear component-I, in this, as a man who has served in the Navy for 25 years, I do not doubt for a minute.
          1. Winnie76
            Winnie76 April 24 2021 23: 09
            -1
            I want to say the following. Shooting anti-ship missiles at the Black Sea Fleet ships is practically a guaranteed nuclear response. (They sink our ships, we sink their ships, they gouge our bases, we gouge their bases, we turn on the strategic nuclear forces, they are similar) The point in this idea is zero. But to work with tomahawks with nuclear warheads there is minimal sense, though with the same result, i.e. nuclear exchange.
            Quote: Leontrotsky
            In the event of a strike by Tomahawks on the DPR / LPR, as I wrote above, the Russian Federation can respond with caliber strikes against US bases located in Europe

            This is the same nuclear exchange in perspective. The meaning of wasting time on nonsense
            1. Leontrotsky
              Leontrotsky April 24 2021 23: 53
              +1
              I cannot argue against this, I completely agree with this.
              1. Winnie76
                Winnie76 April 25 2021 00: 00
                -1
                IMHO these are the new rules of proxy war. Each power has the right to break someone else's proxy. We can break into the Armed Forces of Ukraine and ISIS, the Americans of the DPR, LPR or Assad. And they and we will have nothing for this, except for deep concerns from the rostrum of the UN
                1. lucul
                  lucul April 25 2021 12: 46
                  -1
                  IMHO these are the new rules of proxy war. Each power has the right to break someone else's proxy. We can break into the Armed Forces of Ukraine and ISIS, the Americans of the DPR, LPR or Assad. And they and we will have nothing for this, except for deep concerns from the rostrum of the UN

                  Uh-huh, only a new fad has appeared in the military doctrine of Russia and it sounds like "when striking the territory of Russia, as well as its allies ", so no proxy - the answer will be immediately.
                2. Winnie76
                  Winnie76 April 26 2021 19: 09
                  0
                  Quote: lucul
                  , as well as her allies ", so no proxy - the answer will be immediately.

                  All and sundry Israel, the United States, Turkey are smacking at Assad's army. And where is the answer?
    3. 3danimal
      3danimal April 25 2021 22: 07
      -1
      They are ready, for the sake of Ukraine, to receive a full-scale nuclear strike on their territory, welcome to hell)))

      Hell will start everywhere, so they won't be the first to use nuclear weapons.
  • 3danimal
    3danimal April 27 2021 20: 53
    0
    his missiles on board are enough to take over all Burke's ammunition

    From what distance can he attack incoming anti-ship missiles?
    Standing at the pier, is he ready to fire immediately?
    How many missiles will be launched on each anti-ship missile (just do not say that one smile ).
    As a result, the SAM ammunition load may not be enough.
  • vovashturman
    vovashturman April 24 2021 19: 02
    +1
    Yes, a single "Mosquito" hit from an old boat would be enough for a berk up to the tonsils.
    1. 3danimal
      3danimal April 25 2021 22: 10
      -1
      In a spherical vacuum.
      Cutter, MRK is helpless against the submarine. Doesn't even know that a torpedo has been launched.
      But the destroyer can fight, and successfully.
  • zenion
    zenion April 25 2021 18: 00
    0
    This one, as if the deputy minister reminds of the guy who washed his pants and said - you can't trust anyone, not even yourself. After all, I just wanted to kick, but crap.
  • BastaKarapuzik And
    BastaKarapuzik And April 25 2021 19: 15
    0
    purely hypothetically and from a slingshot you can knock out someone ... well, purely hypothetically
    And practically? How many missiles can one Burke target? Or even two?
    because it is purely practical, he will need his target guidance channels not for attack, but for defense. And he will defend himself against threats from the sea, from land, from the air and from under the water.
    And how will he defend against the submarine? It seems that this is not his specialization.
    So, purely hypothetically and practically, these are two different things.
  • Krasnoyarsk
    Krasnoyarsk April 24 2021 08: 25
    +3
    Quote: 501Legion
    by the time they fire a volley, rockets from the bastions and balls will already fly at them. brown-headed

    Who knows what the Kremlin will think about in this case. It may happen that not "Bastion" and "Ball" will fly, but something more serious. And not on ships, as we understand. The American military are still thinkers, but not to the same degree.
  • The comment was deleted.
  • tlauicol
    tlauicol April 24 2021 08: 43
    -3
    They will fire a volley from the Aegean Sea. Not fools
    1. Leontrotsky
      Leontrotsky April 24 2021 15: 11
      +2
      Harpoons will not fly from the Aegean Sea. They snake for 300 km. And tomahawks only shoot at stationary targets.
      1. tlauicol
        tlauicol April 24 2021 15: 53
        0
        Quote: Leontrotsky
        And tomahawks only shoot at stationary targets.

        that's what they will do
        1. Leontrotsky
          Leontrotsky April 24 2021 21: 15
          +1
          I'm afraid to upset you, my dear, but actually, in order to destroy the "All Black Sea Fleet" you have to hit surface ships, and this seems to be a mobile target. In addition, this junk will fly from the water area of ​​the Aegean Sea so much that any NK will move 30 miles during the flight time. In addition, let me remind you of the Russian military doctrine - a strike on the infrastructure of the Russian Navy (because this strike does not pose a danger for NK and VKS aircraft), so a strike on the Black Sea Fleet bases leaves Russia the right to retaliate, by the success of Vanguards, Yars and other by decision-making centers. It is necessary for Washington to help the independent-to solve them)))
          1. tlauicol
            tlauicol April 25 2021 04: 45
            +1
            Ships are not perpetum mobile, especially ours. They spend most of the time at the port. Like Pearl Harbor.
            It is clear that most likely there will be no strike, but they have such an opportunity.
            1. Leontrotsky
              Leontrotsky April 25 2021 14: 41
              +1
              Certainly not perpetum mobile)) But also not such junk as tomahawks. After all, if a tomahawk is launched from the Aegean Sea, in order for the destroyers to secure their ass, then they will fly at a speed of 900 km / h for more than an hour. AWACS stations will detect the mass launch of the CD right there. Well, since there is more than enough time to get away from the pier, the tomahawks have no chances. How will they target a moving target? I'm not talking about the VKS - they will already release daggers (the range, I will remind you of up to 1000 km) or the Kh-32 (also 1000), if the TU-22m3 is used, until these products of the 80s fly to the place where there is no code stood NK.
              And about our ships, the Black Sea Fleet is full of modern RTOs. Yes, there is an old 1164, but still, time is more than enough. and if they (NATO destroyers) enter the Black Sea, you can safely write out coffin allowance for both teams to the Pentagon.
              1. tlauicol
                tlauicol April 25 2021 15: 15
                0
                AWACS stations will detect the mass launch of the CD? laughing write more, funny good
                1. Leontrotsky
                  Leontrotsky April 26 2021 19: 24
                  +1
                  Of course they will, study the materiel. Similar products were still in the days of the USSR and could track the launch of the CD from Europe. Now, one of the Voronezh early warning systems is deployed in the Krasnodar Territory. Its range is about 6000 km. Moreover, its data can be used for the control center.
                  1. tlauicol
                    tlauicol April 27 2021 04: 29
                    -1
                    Change the letter K to B. And study the materiel
                    1. Leontrotsky
                      Leontrotsky April 27 2021 08: 21
                      +1
                      No, thank you. I will leave the CD and will not change the letters. What is the main feature of launching missiles from Europe? We'll have to poke your nose - "Voronezh stations are designed to detect and track ballistic and cruise missiles and other aerodynamic objects." and here is a link to the native VO-https: //topwar.ru/10085-radiolokacionnye-stancii-dalnego-obnaruzheniya-sprn-voronezh.html
                      Which ballistic missiles will be deployed in Europe in large quantities, on the borders with Russia, when, for example, it is necessary to suppress the launch silo of Russian ballistic missiles? Naturally, they will use CD. So to teach you materiel-S)))
                    2. tlauicol
                      tlauicol April 27 2021 08: 42
                      0
                      in order for the Armavir Voronezh to see the launch of the RC from near Crete, the object must rise to an altitude of 150-170 km. Otherwise, beautiful marquise, everything is fine ...
                    3. Leontrotsky
                      Leontrotsky April 27 2021 09: 17
                      +1
                      "The Voronezh-type radar grouping makes it possible to overcome all these difficulties and create an effective defense system against cruise missiles. And in the future, create on their basis an integrated aerospace defense system that will be able to detect and intercept targets flying at an altitude of several tens of meters to hundreds of kilometers at a distance of thousands of kilometers. " To be honest, I would like to know about at least one cruise missile flying at an altitude of 150 km. And so, everything is fine. Hello Marquis))))
                    4. tlauicol
                      tlauicol April 27 2021 09: 45
                      0
                      Me too, but they, KR, fly much lower. At best, Armavir will see them over Sevastopol, at worst - over Novorossiysk. In short: the Voronezh radar station is an over-the-horizon detection station, it itself must be protected from the CD
                    5. Leontrotsky
                      Leontrotsky April 29 2021 19: 12
                      0
                      Let's start with the fact that, among other things, the Voronezh radar is included in the early warning system., In addition to Voronezh, there is also a "Container" - and this is a station over the horizon, whatever one may say and it is located in Mordovia (3000 range), there is a Sunflower, which covers the nearest sea ​​(up to 300 km) and not only borders. Moreover, the start of the CD can be tracked from Liana, which at the end of 2020 included four satellites - two Lotus and two Pion NKS, just about another Peony is about to be commissioned. But Voronezh cannot be called only an over-the-horizon station, because Voronezh is different. There is Voronezh-M, there is Voronezh-DM, that is, they work in different bands. And it is the decameter range that is over the horizon. Yes, some sources call Voronezh an over-the-horizon station. But there are also sources that speak about the possibilities of detecting the Kyrgyz Republic by Voronezh. Well, these are heights from 0 to 40 km. As in the quote that I gave you. And this is by no means an isolated case.
  • 3danimal
    3danimal April 25 2021 22: 17
    -1
    The ships can only interfere with the landing on the territory of Ukraine from the sea. Although, this is more for oststrash, of course.
    What is really possible is to shoot down combat aircraft in the skies over Kiev.
    Moreover, it will not be easy to figure out whose air defense / aviation did it.
  • antivirus
    antivirus April 24 2021 09: 02
    -2
    two destroyers of the US Navy in one salvo can destroy the entire Black Sea Fleet

    it's not even about the Bastions - all the dams on the Dnieper were one division of the Strategic Missile Forces. or Iskander. you can substations at nuclear power plants and state district power plants (without touching the reactors) .. the military obey the hands of the country - the country lives, if not - the junta.
    1. New Year day
      New Year day April 24 2021 09: 23
      0
      Quote: antivirus
      all dams on the Dnieper by one Strategic Missile Forces division

      Gee! You have to think of it. Even Hitler couldn't do that. Read about the consequences of the explosion of the DneproGES in the Second World War
      1. Ross xnumx
        Ross xnumx April 24 2021 10: 12
        +1
        Ukrainian ex-deputy minister: Any expert will tell you that two destroyers of the US Navy in one salvo can destroy the entire Black Sea Fleet of the Russian Federation

        And then the reply of the Ukrainian idiot poured in the answers of the Russians, ready in practice to prove that not an inch, not a scrap, not a moment ...

        And why almost no one had the idea that the United States would not fight for Ukraine even if an American governor took the place of the president of Ukraine (surrendered on a "good will")?
        And this thought was and it is correct:
        Quote: prior
        Chu.
        A salvo of even one US Navy destroyer is enough to destroy the United States.
        She is such a reply ...

        good
        For:
        III. Conditions for the transition of the Russian Federation to the use of nuclear weapons
        17. The Russian Federation reserves the right to use nuclear weapons in response to the use of nuclear weapons and other weapons of mass destruction against it and (or) its allies, as well as in the case of aggression against the Russian Federation with the use of conventional weapons, when it is itself at risk the existence of the state.

        hi
      2. antivirus
        antivirus April 25 2021 20: 39
        0
        let the kokhly read and love their fluffs ........................
      3. antivirus
        antivirus April 26 2021 05: 15
        0
        read - answered - forgot.
        second comment
        ++ 1 The caliber to the dam is slightly less. what ?? bags of explosives in summer 41g or Germans 43g (?)

        "gee!"
        "sorry for Dneproges".
        non-brothers saboteurs in the Crimea pushed, they shot back, several of our people were killed when they left for the outskirts.

        The main contradictions of the RSFSR and the Ukrainian SSR are objective, from the duplication of the industrial base Donbass-Krivoy Rog and Ural-Kuzbass-Ekibastuz + other Siberia and Kazakhstan. the confrontation in the economy (to contain this!) turned into a political one during the collapse of the USSR. continues in the markets of the CIS and the world.
        one heron should remain in one den. What kind of beast are you for? for sharovarnikov?
        the outskirts (industrial base) will be killed either by the EU or the Russian Federation. The division of territories is possible.
        we would wriggle out from under China-India-USA and other growing giants, and before the peacefulness of the horses - ??? do you work for EhamAskvy?
         +++ to the regret:
        antivirus 2 June 19, 2017 10:20 | Crimean border: 168 kilometers of the arc of torment
        As for the Crimeans, for them a visit to Ukraine is a difficult and sometimes very dangerous quest. Those who at one time renounced Ukrainian citizenship officially and handed in a “passport with a trident” have no options in principle.
        ON APRIL 16 D arrived 2 PEOPLE from Dzhankoy. BUY A MACHINE (ENGINE OVERHEATED)
        -what did before the referendum. how did you live?
        - nothing. any hunting cartridges bought

        THE CRIMEAN PREPARED TO KILL, THEY ALSO DEFEND TO DEFEND. KILL.
  • TatarinSSSR
    TatarinSSSR April 24 2021 20: 27
    0
    In the next branch, Damantsev says that American escorts can shoot Block-4 Tomahawks directly from the North Aegean Islands, their range is 2500 km. So, if you believe Damantsev, Bali and Bastions will not reach them))
  • 3danimal
    3danimal April 26 2021 15: 29
    0
    The bastions will not have time to fly.
    Between launches of Tomahawks no more than 10s, respectively, launching 50 pieces of anti-ship missiles (it is unlikely to take more to the detriment of air defense) by one ship will take a maximum of 8,5 minutes.
    From two (as it was supposed to enter the Black Sea) destroyers - 100 missiles.
    They will not be able to destroy the Black Sea Fleet, but many ships are capable of rendering them incapacitated.
  • Kote Pan Kokhanka
    Kote Pan Kokhanka April 24 2021 07: 37
    +4
    Uh-huh, especially the American super-iron Zamwalt lol
    1. xorek
      xorek April 24 2021 08: 04
      0
      Quote: Kote Pan Kokhanka
      Uh-huh, especially the American super-iron Zamwalt lol

      The USA cherishes this golden iron and, in fact, is not allowed on any hikes .. Suddenly they will flood)))
  • carstorm 11
    carstorm 11 April 24 2021 07: 40
    +6
    Exactly. The Black Sea Fleet will be built as a target. Aviation and coastal smoke will go away. The air defense will be disabled. Nobody will accompany them.
    1. Insurgent
      Insurgent April 24 2021 07: 46
      +2
      Quote: carstorm 11
      Exactly. The Black Sea Fleet will be built as a target. Aviation and coastal smoke will go away. The air defense will be disabled. Nobody will accompany them.


      Looks like they are checking everything according to the Barbarossa plan ...
      1. tihonmarine
        tihonmarine April 24 2021 08: 00
        +3
        Quote: Insurgent
        Looks like they are checking everything according to the Barbarossa plan ...

        According to the training manual, from Zhenya Psaki.
        1. Insurgent
          Insurgent April 24 2021 08: 06
          -1
          Quote: tihonmarine
          According to the training manual, from Zhenya Psaki.

          Zhenya what recourse ... So, "bell" ... Sounds that she is "lowered from the top."
          And there, with mental activity due to a raging virus COronaVIrus Disease 2019 Alzheimer's - everything is very stressful ...
      2. VORON538
        VORON538 April 24 2021 08: 06
        +1
        They forget how this very plan of Barbarossa turned out for the organizers!
        1. Insurgent
          Insurgent April 24 2021 08: 19
          +1
          Quote: VORON538
          They forget how this very plan of Barbarossa turned out for the organizers!

          So they are sure that HISTORY LESSONS are not about them. They are "exceptional" ...
    2. Nyrobsky
      Nyrobsky April 24 2021 09: 56
      +4
      Quote: carstorm 11
      Exactly. The Black Sea Fleet will be built as a target. Aviation and coastal smoke will go away. The air defense will be disabled. Nobody will accompany them.

      Ukrop dreams they are - "The Kremlin will come to break the mattress", and at this time they will perch on the perches and crow triumphantly.
    3. Ripap
      Ripap April 24 2021 13: 36
      -1
      Air defense is not a panacea; it does not save you from a massive strike.
      1. carstorm 11
        carstorm 11 April 24 2021 15: 16
        -1
        Two berks are quite calm. Even if you forget that they will be drowned right there and this is just suicide
  • BARKAS
    BARKAS April 24 2021 07: 43
    +8
    The Japanese once had Kamikaze, and not the United States, the American prefers to fight with someone else's hands.
    1. tihonmarine
      tihonmarine April 24 2021 07: 57
      +5
      Quote: BARKAS
      The Japanese once had Kamikaze, and not the United States, the American prefers to fight with someone else's hands.

      So after all, "someone else's booty of a naked hedgehog, it is always easier to wonder."
      1. VORON538
        VORON538 April 24 2021 08: 08
        +1
        Apparently, this "ehsperd" naively thinks that the priest will be American :))) It is in vain that the Americans take care of their priests!
        1. tihonmarine
          tihonmarine April 24 2021 08: 24
          +1
          Quote: VORON538
          Apparently, this "ehsperd" naively thinks that the priest will be American :))) It is in vain that the Americans take care of their priests!

          Any hedgehog, like any fire, the Americans will crush and extinguish, only with the Ukrainian booty.
  • Konstantin Gogolev
    Konstantin Gogolev April 24 2021 07: 47
    0
    Well, yes, better than 100500 air mattresses - there won't be enough missiles. And they can disperse and that's all - not to find, there is no flare, even satellites will not help.
  • Ovsigovets
    Ovsigovets April 24 2021 07: 50
    +14
    "I, he says, can drown an aircraft carrier ... if I'm lucky" (C) ... in theory, probably yes ... that's right ... ... can destroy the entire Black Sea Fleet .... well, if it's like in a dash to place ... theoretically, one nuclear charge into any US naval base will sweep away the American fleet to shit ... theoretically ..... as a member of the bearer I can still spud Monica Bellucci or Aishwarya Rai ... theoretically ..... Grymchak from yours statements, the truth is that NOBODY NOBODY will fight for you and will have to do it yourself ... and whether you destroy it or not depends on the availability of missiles, on the ability to use weapons, on the ability to fend off an attack ... but a lot of what ... .. only the cleanliness of the asses of Ukrainian "patriots" depends on your language Grymchak)))) and it seems to me that they are clean by your zeal
  • tralflot1832
    tralflot1832 April 24 2021 07: 51
    +2
    Before they can fire a salvo, the military-political situation in the world must change. The doctrines "for domestic consumption" frightened the Americans that the latter sent the British for themselves. Stalin: I won't say anything about Ukraine at all.
  • Hermit21
    Hermit21 April 24 2021 07: 51
    +6
    In one gulp what? 16 shoeless "Harpoons", which are not on every destroyer? An anti-ship missile version of the Ax, which is not yet in the fleet and also feed for air defense?
    1. Xnumx vis
      Xnumx vis April 24 2021 08: 06
      +4
      GRK "Moscow" alone carries sixteen missiles. Great rockets ..
      1. Overlock
        Overlock April 24 2021 11: 49
        +10
        Quote: 30 vis
        GRK "Moscow" one carries sixteen missiles

        Which is Basalt from 1975?
        1. Xnumx vis
          Xnumx vis April 24 2021 13: 22
          +1
          Quote: Overlock
          Quote: 30 vis
          GRK "Moscow" one carries sixteen missiles

          Which is Basalt from 1975?

          The main weapon of the cruiser was originally the P-500 "Basalt" anti-ship missiles with the "Argon" control system. In total, the ship has 16 missiles installed in 8 paired non-hated launchers located on the upper deck. In the process of modernization, these missiles were replaced by the P-1000 Vulkan missiles, which have a longer firing range - 600-700 km. https://topwar.ru/16983-gvardeyski-raketnyy-kreyser-moskva-flagman-chernomorskogo-flota.html
          1. Overlock
            Overlock April 24 2021 14: 30
            +14
            Quote: 30 vis
            for rockets P-1000 "Vulcan"

            Which with fiberglass launchers SM-248?
            Quote: 30 vis
            characterized by a longer firing range - 600-700 km.

            By reducing the mass and, consequently, the warhead?
            1. krizis
              krizis April 24 2021 18: 03
              +1
              And by improving the design and engine. 500 kg is more than enough. The warhead is brighter than 2 times heavier than that of the "Harpoon".
              The main thing is that the ability to overcome air defense has increased dramatically.
  • tihonmarine
    tihonmarine April 24 2021 07: 55
    +10
    Therefore, in the end, if the ships of the Russian Black Sea Fleet violate our sea borders, then we will destroy them.
    Well, what did you Raguli do in Crimea in 2014, why did not they destroy even a single boat of the Russian Black Sea Fleet, but simply "scrambled" from the Crimea, leaving everything except fat. And now, in hindsight, "We are heroes, we will destroy the Black Sea Fleet!" Better sit in the "outhouse" and sniff in three holes, "heroes".
    1. xorek
      xorek April 24 2021 08: 02
      +2
      Quote: tihonmarine
      Well, what did you Raguli do in Crimea in 2014, why did not they destroy even a single boat of the Russian Black Sea Fleet, but simply "scrambled" from the Crimea, leaving everything except fat.

      laughing good Yes, as I recall .. A pair of "Tigers" with machine guns drove up to the gates of the military unit of the Armed Forces of Ukraine and completely blocked, and they were even afraid to utter a word.
      And the fleet, there is generally laughter and sin, fighters, damn it .. lol .
      1. Overlock
        Overlock April 24 2021 11: 52
        +11
        Quote: xorek
        A pair of "Tigers" with machine guns drove up to the gates of the military unit of the Armed Forces of Ukraine and blocked completely, and they were even afraid to utter a word

        Were there? Are you tired of carrying nonsense? Study the question, then every time you get into a puddle
    2. Overlock
      Overlock April 24 2021 11: 51
      +11
      Quote: tihonmarine
      Well, what did you Raguli do in Crimea in 2014, why did not even destroy a single boat of the Russian Black Sea Fleet,

      Firstly, the majority moved with the ships to the Black Sea Fleet, and secondly, the Olshansky large landing craft was put out of action.
      1. tihonmarine
        tihonmarine April 24 2021 12: 16
        +1
        Quote: Overlock
        Firstly, the majority moved with the ships to the Black Sea Fleet, and secondly, the Olshansky large landing craft was put out of action.

        "Olshansky" did not belong to the Black Sea Fleet of Russia, the Ukrainian Navy, and they are free to do whatever they want with their property. It still stands in Sevastopol (if I'm not mistaken). Representatives of the Russian authorities were not "against" the return of the ship, despite the costs of its restoration. However, another round of Nazi aggression in Donbass interrupted plans to hand over the ship.
  • Murmur 55
    Murmur 55 April 24 2021 07: 56
    +9
    Lord, how bad they are, it's not even funny anymore.
  • stalki
    stalki April 24 2021 07: 57
    +4
    As soon as they "give" something, they will immediately be scraped off the pots. What a brave "tin soldier". Well, let them sail on paper boats and track down the striped ones, you can suck up in different ways.
    1. Murmur 55
      Murmur 55 April 24 2021 08: 10
      +3
      And he, like Kuchma, will first shoot all the "acupants" with a gun, and then, well, I'm old and in general you misunderstood me.
  • Boris55
    Boris55 April 24 2021 07: 58
    +6
    Are they suicidal?
    Our unsinkable aircraft carrier Crimea will not be long in coming with a response, and they will never be able to sink it with any modern weapons (even with nuclear bombs). Well, what the Syrians do with their topars (100 out of 3 flew), we will still do it better - none of them will reach the target.

  • Mikhalych
    Mikhalych April 24 2021 07: 58
    +4
    Any military expert will tell you that two US Navy destroyers in one salvo can destroy the entire Black Sea Fleet (BSF) of the Russian Federation.

    Under Trump, there was a volley in Syria. Like 59 tomahawks launched. And how many of them flew to the target? Electronic warfare however.
    tongue
    1. skif8013
      skif8013 April 24 2021 08: 08
      +3
      Quote: Mikhalych
      Any military expert will tell you that two US Navy destroyers in one salvo can destroy the entire Black Sea Fleet (BSF) of the Russian Federation.

      Under Trump, there was a volley in Syria. Like 59 tomahawks launched. And how many of them flew to the target? Electronic warfare however.
      tongue

      After that, they don't do that anymore, they are afraid of being disgraced even more.
    2. Alien ...
      Alien ... April 25 2021 00: 27
      0
      Flew from 23 (our data) to 44 (Israel). Moreover, deep into Syria (Shayrat is located southeast of Homs).
      And you, sofa experts (no offense), think it's just that our entire Defense Ministry is straining from even one destroyer? Not so simple...
      ... And the most offensive thing is that this ukromoryak is more than 50% right ... There’s another thing: google what the Burkov air defense is ... Sevastopol is almost covered from Istanbul ... MiG-31, you say? .. Well, well ...
  • xorek
    xorek April 24 2021 07: 58
    +4
    I read the article and I got the feeling that I heard the crowing of a rooster on a farm near Dikanka)))))
    1. Xnumx vis
      Xnumx vis April 24 2021 08: 08
      +7
      Quote: xorek
      I read the article and I got the feeling that I heard the crowing of a rooster on a farm near Dikanka)))))

      Let's not touch Dikanka ... A cult place .. Rooster cry on the zone .. yes!
      1. VORON538
        VORON538 April 24 2021 09: 48
        +1
        Indeed, there is a feeling that a "brain burner" has been turned on in this zone, to which incredible nonsense are carried by their various ehperds and other dominant talking heads almost every day :)))
    2. The comment was deleted.
      1. tihonmarine
        tihonmarine April 24 2021 08: 20
        +3
        Quote: Insurgent
        The video itself:

        Good video, to the place.
        1. Insurgent
          Insurgent April 24 2021 08: 52
          +3
          Quote: tihonmarine

          Good video, to the place.

          This can be seen from the "cons" which Svidomites generously shower my comments.
          And this one was no exception.
          1. Crimean partisan 1974
            Crimean partisan 1974 April 24 2021 10: 21
            -1
            This can be seen from the "cons" which Svidomites generously shower my comments.
            ........ as gorby used to say, "pluralism of opinion is not what it is for you" ...... why are you so worried about the cons ... on the contrary, he provoked the freaks
            1. Insurgent
              Insurgent April 24 2021 10: 31
              +2
              Quote: Crimean partisan 1974
              why are you so worried about the downsides ... on the contrary, freaks provoked

              That's it. So - touched... This is what I noted with a comment.
              1. Crimean partisan 1974
                Crimean partisan 1974 April 24 2021 10: 37
                -1
                This is what I noted with a comment.
                ...... right ... after all, they don't know that there is a binary information transmission system in the information field, that is, there is a current "1" and there is no current "0" ... so do not hold it ... burn your comments .. I am constantly adding to you ... wonderful comments ... by the way, what is there at the front ... or else the Sith Lord hasn't appeared here for a long time ... I can't even get through to Kent
  • aszzz888
    aszzz888 April 24 2021 07: 59
    +3
    Former Deputy Minister of the Government of Ukraine:

    Any military expert will tell you that two US Navy destroyers in one salvo can destroy the entire Black Sea Fleet (BSF) of the Russian Federation.
    Lumpy doubts I have, what kind of you, and people like you, dodgers, will the Merikatos substitute their little heads? wassat
  • Murmur 55
    Murmur 55 April 24 2021 08: 07
    +1
    A good "expert," at first, they say, two US destroyers can commit suicide, and then no one will fight for us, what is it like ??? Yes, these are such words in the trash can of a snake, because any "independent" knows that the WHOLE WORLD with Ukraine and any NATO soldier with a smile on his lips will die for Nenka.
  • Yaro Polk
    Yaro Polk April 24 2021 08: 08
    +9
    Any expert will tell you that two US Navy destroyers in one salvo can destroy the entire Black Sea Fleet of the Russian Federation
  • Hagen
    Hagen April 24 2021 08: 16
    -2
    ex-deputy minister "for the temporarily occupied territories" Yuri Grymchak made a statement

    Nothing else to write about? That "caramel" will be quoted, then the ex-deputy of something !!! Precisely soon they will publish statements from the smoking-room of cleaning ladies from Bankova ...
  • K-50
    K-50 April 24 2021 08: 17
    +1
    Ukrainian ex-deputy minister: Any expert will tell you that two destroyers of the US Navy in one salvo can destroy the entire Black Sea Fleet of the Russian Federation

    Only if they are the same "experts" as the ex-deputy minister! fellow lol
  • Prisoner
    Prisoner April 24 2021 08: 21
    +1
    It is necessary to be so in awe of the master ?! With such a devoted slave, the pan touches the sky with his head, and when he walks the earth trembles. Here is the essence of a slave, God forgive me! laughing
  • nnm
    nnm April 24 2021 08: 42
    +3
    Apparently, Grymchak is a big fan of the fantasy series "The Last Ship". There, one of the Burks single-handedly saves the world three times, on the way, letting our fleet, then the Chinese, then all at once to the bottom ...
  • Vlad Pervovich
    Vlad Pervovich April 24 2021 08: 45
    +1
    licked ... take a pie from the shelf
    1. Prisoner
      Prisoner April 24 2021 08: 57
      +1
      laughing Eco, you are generous - a whole pie! Let him smell and be good. In extreme cases, it can lick twice. It looks like this ex is still a slime. laughing
  • Arctic
    Arctic April 24 2021 08: 56
    +2
    By golly, in / at 404 are as funny as monkeys in the zoo.
  • vavilon
    vavilon April 24 2021 09: 09
    +1
    No one will dare to do this because the response will not be for some military base, but for the point of decision making, and this is the Pentagon and Washington
    And it's time for Ukrainian generals and clowns to dry crackers for some and smear their foreheads with brilliant green, they won't get away with it.
  • evgen1221
    evgen1221 April 24 2021 09: 11
    +1
    The dude forgot to add that any Svidomo expert knows this nonsense, firmly believes and will prove it. Others will just twist at the temple.
  • Maks1995
    Maks1995 April 24 2021 09: 19
    -3
    I read 2 similar statements of the highest Russian officers. That the salvo of one YSA missile destroyer is equal to the salvo of the entire FM fleet.

    Well, everyone already knows how the fight against corruption is being conducted in the Russian Federation.

    Alas. Rest policy
    1. lucul
      lucul April 24 2021 11: 11
      0
      I read 2 similar statements of the highest Russian officers. That the salvo of one YSA missile destroyer is equal to the salvo of the entire FM fleet.

      And where do you read that? Not Ukrainian officers by chance? ))))
      One US destroyer is 56 Tomahawks - or 3 of our Admiral Grigorovich (16x3 calibers) plus one Karakurt MRK with 8 calibers.
      Or 2 updated Gorshkov (24x2 Caliber) plus again one Karakurt (8 Caliber).
      As you can see, this is far from the entire Black Sea Fleet.
      1. Maks1995
        Maks1995 April 24 2021 15: 46
        -2
        They love our ........ to pretend to be. He clearly said - our officers.
        One seemed to be the deputy commander of the black fleet in the 14th century, the other was a retired staff commander in the 18th century.

        So: the type of the destroyer "Arlie Burke" (32 cells) and in the stern - 64 cells - a total of 96. Where can you put the tomogavka, (not in the standard configuration, of course)

        That is, 16 * 3 + 8 + 24 * 2 + .... oh yes, you have karakurt 2 times. = 104.
        104.> 96 the stump is clear, but not much.

        And here is the Ticonderoga-class cruiser, 122 launching silos .... But I told you about the destroyer! No matter how it counts ...

        So you are partly right. up to one are not equal ... But I did not think it myself, I brought 2va met statements over the past years ... maybe they lied ??
        1. lucul
          lucul April 24 2021 15: 58
          -3
          So: the type of the destroyer "Arlie Burke" (32 cells) and in the stern - 64 cells - a total of 96. Where can you put the tomogavka, (not in the standard configuration, of course)

          Everything is clear - you are confusing cells for Tomahawks with cells for anti-aircraft missiles)))
          Arleigh Burke has 56 Tomahawk slots
          1. Maks1995
            Maks1995 April 24 2021 19: 28
            -1
            Maybe.
            Looked in the internet - universal cells, shove what will fit.
            The stump is clear, not all Tomahawks, but purely conditionally, supposedly, you can shove everything.

            Is there a link to the difference?

            And a quick search gives 8, not 16 calibers for Admiral Gorshkov
            1. Maks1995
              Maks1995 April 24 2021 19: 50
              -1
              I'm shooting about Gorshkov - they also write about 16 missiles ..
        2. Andylw
          Andylw April 24 2021 18: 55
          0
          Quote: Max1995
          24 * 2

          there are no potters at the Black Sea Fleet, why they added
          Volley 2 Berkov more than a salvo of the Russian Black Sea Fleet, this is obvious
  • TermNachTer
    TermNachTer April 24 2021 09: 23
    +1
    This vinthorod Banderast was detained not for fraud, but for accepting a bribe, on an especially large scale. It was only later, the most objective Bandera investigation was re-qualified as a fraud. It cannot be imprisoned - it is a faithful banderlog)))
  • New Year day
    New Year day April 24 2021 09: 25
    -1
    Quote: antivirus
    you can substations at nuclear power plants and state district power plants (without touching the reactors) ..

    Is there a brain in the skull? Is Chernobyl not enough? Everything is beautiful on paper, but they forgot about the ravines
  • Igor Pa
    Igor Pa April 24 2021 09: 25
    +1
    They have sniper rifles on their burks (see "sea battle"). Here are those vaasche tin. Ukrainian iksperd probably meant it. They raskherachil planets there, and you mean the Black Sea Fleet!
  • tarakan
    tarakan April 24 2021 09: 52
    +1
    [i] [/ i]According to Grymchak, “as many missiles as there will be
    need to".
    Damn STE how many rocket launchers do you need?
  • Skarpzd
    Skarpzd April 24 2021 09: 52
    +1
    any European expert will prove to you on the fingers of one hand that American destroyers have long been mined and processed by the newcomer Russian superspy Petrov and Boshirov.
  • Al_lexx
    Al_lexx April 24 2021 09: 55
    +1
    How funny they are, these fat eaters. What they will not come up with, just to shake the forelock once again. )))))
    However, like some of those present here, who rushed to seriously discuss this "news".))))
  • rotfuks
    rotfuks April 24 2021 10: 03
    +1
    The Ukrainian ex-deputy minister did not quite correctly put it. It would be more correct that …… .Any Ukrainian sofa expert will tell you… .. For there are a lot of experts. They did not serve in the army, they have no military education. But the expert knowledge came from World Of Tanks.
  • nonsense
    nonsense April 24 2021 10: 09
    +1
    wassat all right ... But the opposite is also true - one! a small Soviet missile boat can destroy two US Navy destroyers in one salvo ...
  • north 2
    north 2 April 24 2021 10: 15
    +1
    these are not maneuvers of the Russian army and navy for "purely domestic consumption" in Russia, as a certain Grymchak writes in the article. This is the opinion and words of a certain Grymchak about the maneuvers of the Russian army and the navy for purely domestic consumption in Ukraine. For domestic consumption in Ukraine, if only because when Russia regained the whole Crimean peninsula with all the garrisons of the Ukrainian army there and with the entire Ukrainian fleet even, then not one American
    the ship did not fire a single missile at the Russian troops and ships. But Russia does not need someone else's and she nobly gave Ukraine those ships from the so-called Ukrainian fleet. And if now these words of Grymchak reach America, then they will be surprised, they say, and who said to these clever guys who whistled the most strategically important bridgehead of the Crimean Peninsula that America would put its ships now, when the Russians were already shooting through the entire Black Sea from the coast, would put them under the sights of Russian Bastionov, Balov, Club-M, and Ukraine will, like a fan at the competition, watch and count how many missiles from Bastions, Balov, Club-M reached the goal ... So such bleating, like this certain Grymchak, only for purely internal consumption in Ukraine ...
    And from here comes the question to the VO editorial board. Why should we disseminate and offer us what is purely for purely domestic consumption in Ukraine?
  • Andobor
    Andobor April 24 2021 10: 16
    +1
    Russia can destroy all of America in one salvo - so what?
  • rotmistr60
    rotmistr60 April 24 2021 10: 22
    +2
    The less in the head that helps to think and think, the louder the statements and the desire to be the ultimate truth. Probably read the last "analytical" article by Damantsev.
  • Metallurg_2
    Metallurg_2 April 24 2021 10: 23
    +1
    Any expert will tell you

    Well, if the expert is Ukrainian, then yes, he will not say that either.
  • Ewiak ryzzard
    Ewiak ryzzard April 24 2021 10: 27
    -1
    Where does it go? In the book of Daniel we read: “At the appointed time [the king of the north] will return [in short, Russia will regain the influence it lost after the collapse of the USSR]. And it will enter the south [the cause will be the ethnic conflict south of the Russian borders (Matthew 24: 7). And it may be Georgia again], but it will not be as before [Georgia - 2008] and as later [Ukraine. Here, too, a military response from the West should not be expected now. However, the next time, after the return of Russia, there will be a military confrontation with the United States], because the inhabitants of the Kittim shores [Americans] will arrive against him, and [he] will break [lose heart] and return ”(11:29, 30a). It will be a mutual massacre. This time it will be a world war not only in name. The world will be taken from the earth and the “great sword” used (Revelation 6: 4). And now we have before us the return of Russia. All obstacles to this will be removed. All predictions from this vision come true (since the time of Ancient Persia) with 100% accuracy, in chronological order.
  • Eugene 102
    Eugene 102 April 24 2021 10: 30
    +1
    Ukrainian experts have something with their brains, if they certainly have them, "two destroyers of the US Navy can destroy the entire Black Sea Fleet in one salvo," and the Russian ships will probably stand and watch them sink, there was another "expert" of the same kind, what if Russia we will attack them as if in a shooting range, apparently he thinks that nothing has changed since WW1 and the soldiers will go into battle in full growth with the cover of carts
  • Bare
    Bare April 24 2021 10: 37
    0
    Causes a grin laughing
  • Paranoid50
    Paranoid50 April 24 2021 10: 38
    0
    Any military expert will tell you that two US Navy destroyers in one salvo can destroy the entire Black Sea Fleet (BSF) of the Russian Federation.
    Well, there are such "mathematicians" to the fool. fellow The people in pedoviky will see the next performance characteristics - and everything, the conclusions have been made, he went to spread heresy among the people. Hall, if the entire database of such "experts" consists only of a couple of constants, then they build lines, straight lines like their own convolutions, along which they scratch. yes Once again: philistines, okstytes. laughing
  • kill the fascist
    kill the fascist April 24 2021 10: 43
    +4
    A very miserable draft of the Grymchak - after all, in fact, he admitted the powerlessness of the Ukrop troops, turned the arrows to the overseas owner and immediately admitted that he would not be harnessed for a slave. Here is such a zrada. Not so long ago, a tie-eater, Mishiko the Georgian, told these narrow-minded figures that in 2008 the Americans promised help in case of a conflict with Russia and helped ... everyone remembers these words of support :) And Mishiko, at every incomprehensible sound, was skirting from the mythical planes of Russia.
    1. GRANATE-19
      GRANATE-19 April 24 2021 14: 40
      0
      Tie, that's it ...
      But hide and seek from planes is a masterpiece! I laughed at the whole house.
  • Seu gali
    Seu gali April 24 2021 13: 33
    0
    Of course it can, if they are allowed! Gee
  • denk20
    denk20 April 24 2021 14: 10
    +1
    They will shoot from the Crimea on Bankova Street.
  • GRANATE-19
    GRANATE-19 April 24 2021 14: 38
    0
    That's it, Ukraine has finally gone mad ...
  • Leontrotsky
    Leontrotsky April 24 2021 15: 08
    +1
    Well, a salvo with ancient harpoons can be made up to 300 km. And they will fly as "fast" as tomahawks. I'm very worried that the answer from Onyx would not arrive faster))
  • andreypilot
    andreypilot April 24 2021 15: 14
    0
    While they were jumping, they did not notice how they received a concussion ...
  • BMP-2
    BMP-2 April 24 2021 15: 29
    0
    Anyone who is not even an expert understands that a couple of psychiatric clinics in one fell swoop could cope with the aggression of both the representatives of the current and the previous government, but the taxpayers' money is stubbornly moving in completely different directions ...
  • Alexy
    Alexy April 24 2021 16: 30
    0
    Apparently, this expert has read our Damantsev)))